1

Can he beat Obama?

Next year after another year of this economy, who won't be able to beat Obama?

2 Twenty two minutes with out a comment? Is everyone asleep?

3

I concur. I want to vote for him and I don't want to vote for Romney, but I unless he at the very least doesn't tank the debates, I'm not sure I can.

I thought he did fairly well in the second debate for the first hour.

That last debate was a debacle from beginning to end for him though.

If he can't handle a bunch of ankle biters in Bachmann and Santorum, and a legitimate candidate in Romney, how in the hell can we expect him  to beat smooth talking, easy lying Barack Obama and the debate moderators who will be 100 % in the tank for Obama?

He needs to do well in these debates. If he falls on his face in the next debate, I'm not sure what I'll do.

4 I hear a lot about how Perry didn't "do" anything to create jobs. People (including many of my relatives) don't consider that doing nothing and staying out of the way is a far better way to acomplish economic growth than interfering in the workings.

5 The debates are the main event. The rest is secondary. He did pretty good on Hannity today. But yeah, Dave makes some great points.

6 In-state tuition for Resident children of illegal immigrants isn't going to hurt him in the general election. It only draws blood in the primary.

7 Perry had better do better because if he doesn't, Palin and maybe Christie will get in.
And that will be a mess.

Because anyone on the Right knows Romney is McLame 2.0 and a mess is preferable to the fix being in again.

8 Hey is this something? http://tinyurl.com/3k4xtpa

9 He did pretty good on Hannity today.

Hannity? He may as well have gotten a bj from a corner hooker. Hannity will throw soft balls at anyone with an R after their name.

10 Everyone abandoned ship to escape the stinking corpse that the previous thread has become.

I could Google it, but who in the fuckety fuck is advising Perry?  Whoever it is, they need to give him a swift kick in the ass and perhaps make sure he gets a good nights sleep before the next debate. 

Hopefully he's not pulling a Bachmann and letting his ego get in the way of listening to and taking good advice.

11 Hannity just got done looking at Pam Gellars tits on his show.

12 I'm not interested in who can beat Obama in 2012. A ham sandwich could do that.

I'm interested in who can keep Obama from wanting to run again in 2016, after four years of "Republican conservative" go-along-to-get-along junk from someone like Romney. I'm also not interested in a tougher, more aggressive, and more assertive Al Gore.

If we don't do things to _turn the country around_ and merely take our four-year turn at managing the socialist enterprise, long term, we're screwed.

13 Another ineloquent Texan in the White House would put the libs on edge. Which is great, but I'm not sure I can stomach another media assault like the Bush years.

14 Haha, all I meant was he needs to do well on a national stage other than debates. Radio shows, TV shows, townhalls, etc.

15 Posted by: W.H. Doubter at September 23, 2011 09:32 PM (YlfqW) ------- It'll be fine.

16 Perry's performance in the last debate reminded me of me when I have a cold/flu or am on decongestants/anti-histamines. Fighting of one now.

17 Rick Perry is reminding me of that lawyer that Joe Pesci replaced on My Cousin Vinny.

18 as a fellow Texan, I concur wholeheartedly. It's ironic to see him - supposedly the hard core conservative - getting so beat up on immigration. For what it's worth, his positions are mine, as they are those of the vast majority of Texans who have to live with the problem up close and personal. but he's done such a lousy job of explaining why he supports those ideas! At least I feel better now about voting for Romney, if I have to. Or Christie.

19 The real problem is that Perry has to beat both the magic Obama and the media, a tall order if he isn't perfect in every way.

Don't put it past the media to discover "green shoots" of a recovering economy one month before the election.

I'm not sure the current crop of opponents can fend off that treachery.

20

OK... semi serious question...

Just what IS Perrys Tax Plan?  I did a quick search and couldn't find one...

Fair Tax? National Sales Tax?  Bush Status Quo? (which IMO led to this debacle, as the Gov started picking winners and losers long ago)...

21 Oops, sockpuppet off.

22 I've never made a decision on who to vote for based on a debate. They really are not a debate anyway. Maybe some people make their decisions that way. I'm guessing most aren't paying attention at this point in time.

23

I gave Gov Perry's debate performance some thought in a recent post, "About Last Night ..." and stated, "I do not totally agree with Governor PerryÂ’s stand on In-State tuition, but at least he never prescribed this policy at a National level; nor did he disavow his opinion -  he defended it.  That I can respect."

As we learned in the last elections, it's often not the candidate, it's the machine that wins.

 

24

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 23, 2011 09:35 PM (/7hoP)

Yeah... because the rest of us don't have to live with that problem up close and Personal???

Dude... Central Valley, California....

25 I'm a Texas gal, myself. I was born in El Paso and I work there frequently (live in Alabama now). I wanted to like Perry. He's easy on the eyes and I liked the early reports on his job growth and low taxes.

a) When I first heard him speak, I wasn't watching the television and thought I was hearing GWB. I liked GWB but he was hated by the general population. That's a negative for him.

b) He definitely distinguishes himself as different. He's a man's man. Coyote, anyone? However, the more guns, guts, and glory he appears, the less favorable he's going to be to the libs and moderates.

c) I don't know. He's a bit different but a lot of more of the same.  See a and b, above.

d) Um, almost nevermind but! Spanish Inquisitions? The Latino vote counts. He's weak, weak, weak (but hard-headed) on his stance on illegal immigration. That's almost a deal breaker for me. I say almost because if he gets the nomination, I'll vote for him but I despise his double-down on allowing illegals more benefits than legal citizens who'd like to be educated in Texas.


Damn. I got all serious on a Friday night. Sorry about that.

26 The MarxSpewMedia have been reporting some on Barry's clusterfucking of the U.S. lately. (but still slant the HOR conservatives as the problem rather than the "We refuse to stop spending like drunken sailors that found a bag of money" Demonrat senate.) I think the media will throw Barry under the bus if they think a) he is a lost cause and b) we can get a really squishy GOP pres and take back congress. I'd rather have a Reagan that can convince the public over the bleating of the MsM than have the media "settle for congress and a squish " as it seems they are willing to do. But Perry doesn't seem like he can convince the people to discard the media propagand so far IMO. Can alternative media, talk radio, and a hard slap of economic reality, substitute for a great orator to convince the public to ignore the propaganda from the MarxSpewers that dominate traditional media?

27 Bush Status Quo? (which IMO led to this debacle, as the Gov started picking winners and losers long ago)... ----------- I'm sorry, what the fuck are you talking about?

28

I live in Texas and would happily vote for him. He could beat Obama in the general. Unfortunately, he's defeating the frontrunner in the GOP, which is himself.

Right now,  he's not being compared to the other candidates but rather to a mythical Perfect Conservative and some Ultimate Candidate. He's neither and the disappointment is showing. It's going to be a long primary season. If I were to advise him on the debates, I'd tell him to quit engaging the ankle-biters. You notice everyone talks about how great Herman Cain and Newt do in the debates - they don't really mix it up with anyone. They just answer the questions that they wanted the mods to ask.

That said, you were right on earlier when you said this was all kind of inside baseball. If debates determined the outcome at this point, why isn't Newt the frontrunner? He's won them all.

29 My #1 priority is defeating Obama. It has to be. Without exaggeration, America cannot survive a second term. We may not even be able to recover from the damage of one term but at least there is a chance. Two terms=no chance. Since ANY Republican is better, Electability is the number 1 factor in my support. I'm starting to hear too much about Perry being "extreme". YES, I KNOW that is a media/Dem narrative. But that doesn't matter if all I care about is beating Obama. I have to accept the reality. I hope Christie gets in now so we can have another alternative to Obama. I wish McCotter had been allowed to show his stuff in the debates too.

30

Pamela Gellar is on Hannity's panel. I have no idea why she or anyone else thinks she is attractive. I am not exaggerating, when I look at her, I feel like I could throw up. Gross glued-on shot-put-ball-painted-flesh-coloredesque plastic breasts and sagging jowlettes covering her hard face, reminding me of 10-seconds into a time in the 80s I threw my He-Man rubber doll into a fire.

I know some guys are into this type, but I think most guys are turned off by the used-barfly type. She should wear a burqua.

31

 I've never made a decision on who to vote for based on a debate. They really are not a debate anyway. Maybe some people make their decisions that way. I'm guessing most aren't paying attention at this point in time.

Debates matter, especially in the general elections.

Just look at Reagan and Carter's debates, JFK and Nixon's debate.

Heck even GWB and Gore's debate. Gore came off like an ass despite the fact that George Bush wasn't a good speaker or debater.

It definitely  matters to a decent segment of the voting public.

Last night's debate was the most watched Republican debate this year. People are watcing and they are primary voters.

I like Perry, he's my guy out of the lot, but he really really needs to become good  or passable at the debates if he wants to win the primaries let along the generals.

 

32 *alternative to Romney I meant

33 I'm sorry, what the fuck are you talking about?

Posted by: Joffen at September 23, 2011 09:38 PM (EPcuy)

Status quo with the Income and business Tax's, where they pick winners and losers through the tax code, and give exemptions, rebates, or other perks in order to dictate our behaviour (by taking money away if we don't do things the way they wish...)

This system was debated by the Founders, and found Immoral, which is why they put in the Capitated Tax Provision in the Constitution.

34
Electability is the number 1 factor in my support. Posted by: Sammy at September 23, 2011 09:39 PM (UEB+3)

Yeah, but... Dole and McCain were considered electable (and due their turn). That's worked out great for us, hmmm?

35 Good points all DiT.  Perry needs to move the discussion- force the discussion- to demonstrate that  Mitt will govern as a D-lite.  Force Mitt to explain his intentions in dealing with Obamacare, EPA, energy development.  Oh and throw in DOE.
He can drown Romney in a sea of red meat if he will just do it. 

 

36 I got a headache from reading this post.

37 I am starting to see a possible path for a successful Romney presidency: if republicans retake the senate, the strong hand of a rightward shifted, tea party heavy congress may succeed in keeping him honest...

38 Interesting that Erik Erickson of Red State brought up an anecdote from a insider that thought Perry seemed sick and in pain. Now is this wishcasting?- the man did have back surgery and sure looked out of it. Trying to hold out some hope but perhaps the stage is just too big for him right now. Next debate is make or break.

39 39 I got a headache from reading this post.

Posted by: proudonkey at September 23, 2011 09:42 PM (NadeK)

Well... at least this post has that goin for it...

40 39  It won't hurt so much if you pull it out of your ass.

41 45 39 It won't hurt so much if you pull it out of your ass.

Posted by: Concerned Moronette at September 23, 2011 09:46 PM (mjR67)

Thread winner!

42 So Sarahs looking pretty smart waiting now doesn't she?

43 I don't think these 'debates' will hurt Perry too much. They've just been too stupid a platform. All the idiotic questions, too many people on stage yammering away.

When the field winnows a bit, then maybe we'll get some interesting debates with some impact. Up to this point, they've just been CFoaMF, with Romney stuttering.

Perry's my boy. My hubby's as well, and my daughter's, who gets her FIRST vote in the 2012 elections.

44 47 So Sarahs looking pretty smart waiting now doesn't she?

Posted by: Blaster at September 23, 2011 09:47 PM (Fw2Gg)

Yes.

45 I know some guys are into this type, but I think most guys are turned off by the used-barfly type.

Most guys? Hell most guys would bang someone a lot skankier the Gellar with just a wink.
Do you know any men?

46

It's not enough to sell people on what you would do.  Sometimes, you have to make the case for things you've already done.  I think Perry does well on the former but poorly on the latter.  The problem with the latter is that many people, especially post Obama, will be looking at lot more at your previous actions than your rhetoric.

Perry's not out of it, but he's got to make up a lot of ground that he's lost since he got in the race.  Ground that he gave up through poor preparation.  Oh, and he needs to stop insulting people who disagree with his policy decisions.  We get enough of that from the left, plus McCain and Graham.

47 Uh.. whats this being posted everywhere that 81% of all new jobs in Texas have gone to illegal immigrants?

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp barbarian, tea party terrorist and Perry supporter at September 23, 2011 09:46 PM (qjUnn)

It's a "study" done by and anti immigration web site. You have to ask yourself just how they did this study because they didn't say.

It's been my experience in the construction business here in washington that illegal employees don't advertise that fact and neither do the ones that hire them.

I have a buddy who has about 200 carpenters, he makes sure he gets all the necessary paperwork from them and leaves it at that. Now a lot of them don't speak english but they didn't tell him they were illegals and he has the paperwork showing they are not.

It's a bogus study in other words.

48 Posted by: Blaster at September 23, 2011 09:47 PM (Fw2Gg) -------- Not to me, anyway. I'd still be way more thrilled with Perry than if Sarah announces soon.

49 im seeing a lot of obama reelection ad banners on a lot of conservative websites... what gives, do they know that people who come here are NOT going to vote for him?

50

AAAAHHH!! Satellite Satellite It's falling run run!

Oh, sorry, a pine cone just fell off the pine tree outside my door..

51 So Sarahs looking pretty smart waiting now doesn't she?

Posted by: Blaster at September 23, 2011 09:47 PM (Fw2Gg)

Not really.

52

I know some guys are into this type, but I think most guys are turned off by the used-barfly type. She should wear a burqua.

Posted by: Jheri Carl at September 23, 2011 09:40 PM (//cIL)

Only if the unused Barflys are all taken....

53 I have my doubts Perry will improve with time. I think candidates in right now is what we got, we could be looking at a Romney nomination. Wouldn't be the best scenario but isn't going to be the end of the world.

54 I'm a newer Texan, but I know one thing - Perry can win. His staff and the candidate are figuring out this whole running a national campaign thing on the fly. Hopefully, they'll get it and keep the man on point. At this point in 1999, GW had already locked up all the major inside players and convinced a bunch of states to run draw polls. It's his to win, if they can build the right message. Whose idea was it to have so many early debates so our candidates could help build oppo research?

55 Posted by: Romeo13 at September 23, 2011 09:42 PM (NtXW4) ------ Alright, the first part, sure. But that's not too high on my list. The second part...uh, what clause is that?

56

I know some guys are into this type, but I think most guys are turned off by the used-barfly type. She should wear a burqua.

Posted by: Jheri Carl at September 23, 2011 09:40 PM (//cIL)

The Sky is Falling?

57 Sarah Palin will announce soon. And when she does, it will be like shootin'coyotes from a chopper!

58 ....and my daughter's, who gets her FIRST vote in the 2012 elections.

Congrats to your daughter.  Mine is sick that she will miss her chance to vote for Perry by five months.  Especially when I draw parallels between this election and 1980 when I got to cast my first for Ronaldus Magnus.  

59 Alright, why is there such a "controversy" with who came up with that funny line that Grant Jimstick said at the end? I don't care. Jeez.

60 I so wanted Perry to be the one, but the media's continual crucifying of him will distract from undoing the harm the libs have done. Herman Cain tugs at my heartstrings, and it's damn sad that he can't be the nominee. Mitt and the others turn my stomach. Please, please, don't leave us with another McCain.

61 61 I have my doubts Perry will improve with time. I think candidates in right now is what we got, we could be looking at a Romney nomination. Wouldn't be the best scenario but isn't going to be the end of the world.

Posted by: lowandslow at September 23, 2011 09:52 PM (GZitp)

I think you might be wrong. Romney as President means that we head in the same direction as a re-election of 0bama (in the crapper) but at a slower rate. We need someone different. A Constitutional conservative who is determined to restore our nation.

62 The media and establishment are pushing hard for Romney..big red flag..

 

63 I think you hit the nail on the head. He will make a good President, but to do that he needs to show the world that he can. This is proving to be a difficult enough task for him. He was definitely not charismatic the other night. He needs to get a debate coach/ pr guy asap. As it stands right now, I can do better on the debate floor than he can. He needs to get moving on this.

64 ....and my daughter's, who gets her FIRST vote in the 2012 elections. This is my first vote, too! (Canadian immigrant getting citizenship next year). I will miss the primary vote (I live in NY state..so who cares) but I will be voting in the general. I'm trying to sway as many people as I can in Perry's favor in place of my vote, but he needs to do way better.

65

Posted by: Alamo at September 23, 2011 09:54 PM (Cv3GE)

My son's first vote was in 2010. He is aware and voting appropriately.

66  Why do I smell train wreck?

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at September 23, 2011 09:52 PM (hXJOG

 

You're smelling lefty bullshit. Get back on board and act on your extincts.

Don't be a douche.

67

Perry and a lot of the people who jumped on his bandwagon when he announced his run, and who're jumping off his bandwagon now, forgot that anyone who wants a party nomination needs to work for it.  They can't say 'I'm running' and think it will win the nomination, let alone win the election, without breaking a sweat.  Obama is an excellent example of this. 

Any candidate needs to do the hard work, the learning from experience, the effort to convince people to vote for you.  That's what a primary is suppose to do: vet a person who wants to be elected before he/she/it gets into the general.  Romney already knows that which is why he has perform well.  Perry needed to learn that the nomination wasn't going to be handed to him and that he had to put in the hard work and effort required for winning. 

Until any candidate learns that, they won't (Or they shouldn't) win any primary or election.  It would serve everyone's interest better.

Perry isn't done yet and he has more room for error than Newt or anyone other than Romney (Bachmann's killed her campaign by self-inflicted wounds, so her margin of error is, err, Ron Paul.  Paul himself is a walking margin of error.) to recover and thrive.  But that's not a lot of room.  He needs to learn really fast how to play the primary or he'll be the guy giving the speech endorsing Romney as the GOP presidential nominee instead of the other way around.

Can he do it?  Yes, based on everything and time allowing. 

'Will he do it in time?' is the big question.

68 @66 She's really quite excited to be casting her first vote in a presidential election. Way back, I did too, but I got to vote for Reagan.

69

>> I got a headache from reading this post.

then my work here is done.

70 Posted by: Willy at September 23, 2011 09:56 PM (Ja9VH) ------- THIS. I mean, c'mon guys! Is this not a huge red fucking flag???

71 Let us remember the last candidate who was picked solely because he was "Electable", even though nobody in the Party really liked him:  John F'ing Kerry.  That worked out real well for the Dems, didn't it?

72

>> I got a headache from reading this post.

then my work here is done.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at September 23, 2011 09:58 PM (PjVdx)

Edit it, let's go for an anurizim

73 Did Dr. Evil steal Perry's mojo?

74 Posted by: blogdorce one at September 23, 2011 09:54 PM (GtQoZ)

She scheduled a paid speech in South Korea on the same day as the next debate on Oct 12.

She's not running; too busy playing her supporters for fools.

75 Dave, I actually answered your points. That said, it's Friday night and the Bombay Sapphire is working its magic. Crap. This political/economic climate is not working in my favor.

76 Well Dave, after last mights debate I don't believe  a Gawd damn thing he says. Sorry to disappoint.

77 @73 Congrats!! That's wonderful! Yah, Perry needs to do better, no doubt. Learning curve, for sure. Regardless, I will vote for him over Romney in the primary. I HATE to have to do a McCain again, but likely will, if necessary.

78 Romney is better than McCain because he's genuinely a good businessman and was an executive. But I do understand what some are saying about his wishy-washyness.

79 Well Dave, after last mights debate I don't believe  a Gawd damn thing he says. Sorry to disappoint.

Posted by: Barbarian at September 23, 2011 10:00 PM (EL+OC)

who do you believe, convince me?

80 I thought Perry redeemed himself somewhat on Hannity today, but, I did notice his language changed about saying if the illegals don't get an education they end up on the dole.  He now says they will be cast aside.  Is he afraid to say what everyone knows?  The illegals DO get government bennies.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  This is such a complicated issue.  After some reflection, I am more scared of Romney being spoonfed to us, than the 10% of issues that I disagree with Perry. 

81 Who would make a better candidate to beat Obama: McCain 2008 or Romney 2011? How about McCain 2008 vs Romney 2008?

82 As a Texan who's even stupider than Dave, Perry is still my guy, unless he completely implodes.

He's coming right off the legislative session (which only happens for a few months every two years, and thus is very intense), a statewide months-long natural disaster, and back surgery. Unlike Romney, he actually holds an elected office. Not to make excuses for him, but I do think that warrants giving him a little more time to get up to speed before chunking him out with the trash.

83 John F'ing Kerry. Bahaha.

 Imagine he and Mittens duck huntin' together." Ken I git me a license?" Throw in Jon H for extra merriment.

84 I don't want my first vote to be Mittens. Pleeeaaassseeee don't. I honestly think most Mittens supporters here are liberal trolls.

85 @92, right there with you. Sheesh...can we give the guy a chance? Maybe til the end of November before we write his obit. Such gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands.

86 We need someone different. A Constitutional conservative who is determined to restore our nation.

Posted by: Ima Wurdibitsch at September 23, 2011 09:55 PM (otfJ1)

That would be great but who do we have like that running? I think a lot of conservatives that follow the blogs project to much of themselves into their favorite candidate. Me? I really don't see all that much difference between Romney and Perry, both seem like political opportunists and panderers. Not wild about either one and I don't think they govern all that much different. Either way the Tea Party movement and the rest of the GOP is going to have to hold them to some basic principles, something we didn't do with Bush.

87 Posted by: stace, teahadi extremist bitch at September 23, 2011 10:03 PM (lYlx9) ------ Yes, he gets a small bit of leeway for that. Very small: there's no crying in baseball, as they say.

88 Who would make a better candidate to beat Obama: McCain 2008 or Romney 2011?

How about McCain 2008 vs Romney 2008?

I'll take Newt, 1994.

89 I don't want my first vote to be Mittens. Pleeeaaassseeee don't. I honestly think most Mittens supporters here are liberal trolls.

No, that's not true.

Many are from the East Coast and see him as a good campaigner and administrator with a business background.  Some are Mormons looking to support one of their own.  A liberal troll would want to push someone unelectable, and for all his many faults, that doesn't apply to Romney.

90 "Boy on a Dolphin" on Turner Classic Movie Channel

Sophia Loren;  wet; cotton dress; no bra; Sophia Loren.........

91 Joffen, I feel your pain. That would be a disappointing 'first'. Maybe if you liquor up beforehand it won't hurt so much.

92 Help us, Gov. Perry!

Get your poop in a group and come out swinging again.

We are suffering from Anthropogenic Global Clusterfuckery.

The last debate was Perry's Kasserine Pass.

Let's hope he can come back from it and have his El Guettar.

93 "In-state tuition for Resident children of illegal immigrants isn't going to hurt him in the general election." Don't agree, it neutralizes a core issue when he goes up against the media/POTUS when the real debates arrive.

"I'm not interested in who can beat Obama in 2012. A ham sandwich could do that." Really? I use to think this way, but can't afford to be over confident anymore.  There is too much at stake in this election. We have to get serious here or we will suffer death by conservative echo chamber.

"My #1 priority is defeating Obama. It has to be. Without exaggeration, America cannot survive a second term. We may not even be able to recover from the damage of one term but at least there is a chance. Two terms=no chance." Absolutely, 100% on the money.

Can Perry do it?  I like him and most of his story, but I just can't see the northern swing states, Reagan Democrats and soft independents turning out to vote for him in the numbers we need.  He'd better do a bang up job next time or he's in trouble.

94 Sophia Loren;  wet; cotton dress; no bra; Sophia Loren.........

Faptain America

95 Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 23, 2011 10:07 PM (SY2Kh) ------ I mean Romney supporters here on this site.

96 13 Another ineloquent Texan in the White House would put the libs on edge. Which is great, but I'm not sure I can stomach another media assault like the Bush years. Turn your TV off until 2016

97 As soon as there are one or two seconds between book sales, I'm done.

98 I mean Romney supporters here on this site.

I know.

99 Rick Perry telling opponents of illegal immigration they donÂ’t have a heart is similar to Bloomberg telling opponents of the Ground Zero Mosque that they should feel ashamed.

Dang it...grr...

100 Perry needs a shakeup in his campaign just to get things moving again. Remove the prep people, get new ones, tell the wonks to crank out some policy papers he can refer to. He's got to be able to point to a policy because he just can't tap dance well.

Secondly, he's got to address his physical problems. When did he have his back surgery? He might still be recovering from that. If he's on pain meds it could be the reason he's fuzzy in the second half of the debates. Get milder pain meds that kick in later or else figure out a way to get shorter debates.

Lastly, Perry has to stop losing his temper. Santorum got his goat with his attack on immigration policy. Somebody's got to teach him to take a breath and think before going off. It'll help if he gets as far as debating Bambi because the guy is a supercilious prick and would get anybody's goat.

101 Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 23, 2011 10:12 PM (SY2Kh) -------- Haha there are east coast mormons that visit AoSHQ?!

102 Hollowpoint at September 23, 2011 10:07 PM

Normally I would agree with you, but I think they are starting to realize that Obama is unsalvageable, SCoaMF that he is.  Given that there is no chance for the marxist to win another term, they would love to see a Republican who will only slow things down as opposed to dismantling their statist programs.

103

shhh... i thought i heard a moose.

104 I hate this debate crap. Even moreso in the general. In the primary, at least have people who conservative voters identify with asking the questions. Moderators: Cheney, VDH, Sowell, Bolton, Spengler, Bennent, Ace, etc...

105 "I just can't see the northern swing states, Reagan Democrats and soft independents turning out to vote for him in the numbers we need. "

But most of those folks probably aren't even into to GOP debates, and most of them would probably vote for Ham Sammich over Barry. The destruction BO has wrought is astounding in its depth and breadth.

If Perry ups it a notch or three, and speaks truth to power, and has the righteous wind at his back and brings a gun to the knife fight and makes the oceans rise and becomes the ones we were waiting for......whoops.....sorry...got carried away there...

106 Texans, how has Perry been at appointments

107

with romney's stance on HC one of obama's big problems goes away.

with perry's stance on II one of obama's big advantages goes away

romney will never be able to out slick obama however perry can talk

more honestly than obama . it's fairly simple

 

 

108 It does not matter to me what the candidates do, other then sending a favorite a few bucks I have no say. By the time my state primaries it will be all over. Last time I voted for Thompson, even though he had pulled out already, because it just didn't matter. I really like Palin, but after have read Cheney's book I know she has no where close to enough experience. Prior to being Vice President Cheney was President Ford's Chief of Staff, Secretary of Defense, Congressman (with house leadership experience), CEO of a major corporation. That is the level of experience we really need now. We have a few Governors running, which probably as good as it will get.

109 Normally I would agree with you, but I think they are starting to realize that Obama is unsalvageable, SCoaMF that he is.  Given that there is no chance for the marxist to win another term, they would love to see a Republican who will only slow things down as opposed to dismantling their statist programs.

No, liberals don't think that way.

They're mostly pissed off that Obama hasn't been liberal enough.  No matter how "moderate" our nominee, they're still going to convince themselves he's a Exxtreme Right Winger.

110 122, flip 5% and we run the table

111 <sub>Rick Perry telling opponents of illegal immigration they donÂ’t have a heart is similar to Bloomberg telling opponents of the Ground Zero Mosque that they should feel ashamed.

Dang it...grr...</sub>

That remark he made was epic stupid. Epic. Stupid.

Like if you don't want to support a Mexican citizen, there is something wrong with you.

My wife and I made a little American citizen that we'd like to be able to support!

Fuck you very very much, Sir. I have already been supporting all their benefits in California since I got my first real job at 14. Dick.

Between the illegals pouring in and leaching the tit dry and the four generations of welfare recipients in Detroit who have never held a job, I'd like my goddamn Thank You Card. Not another insult.

You are on thin ice, Mr. Perry, my pedigree chum, and I will be under it when it breaks.

112 I don't get calling it a subsidy. They're paying the same money as other qualifying residents, but they're not disrupting their studies to wait in the immigration line. They go straight from high school to college like any other citizen -- and they must prove they are in the system. That's not free or preferential, just equal. If they did not get this tuition, since they're all dirt poor and living in the margins, they would not go to college at all. That's less money for Texas.

113 Posted by: rick at September 23, 2011 10:15 PM (p6fyx) ------------ Very true. What can the SCoaMF bring to the debate when discussing II with Perry? I think, face to face with the man who could have done something about it Rick will fucking lose it and go nuclear on the guy. It will be epic.

114 @119 Texans, how has Perry been at appointments

Good question.

Another one: How have his judicial picks worked out?

115 I am through with hardheaded Texas cocksuckers with the likes of John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and the 2013 version of Chertoff  standing by his side, calling me a bigot because I believe Illegal invaders are illegal. Screw him.

116 To be fair to Perry, I'm hearing too many "pundits" state that illegal aliens are getting a free education because of the Texas DREAM Act. That is not happening and those talking heads should have their pundit card revoked for being too ignorant. It's the full rate for a Texas resident, not the premium rate for out of state applicants. But it sure isn't free. At worst it's state subsidized as are all state school residents' fees and/or any associated loans are financed by banks capitalizing via some other subsidy (which I'm not sure exists).

Truthfully, I'm becoming more conflicted about this particular legislation. I mean what do you do with children who are dependent on their parents to live, who are forced by virtue of their parents' behavior to enter the U.S. illegally, who are forced to attend public school because a) they can't be truant, b) they can't work, and c) won't be deported because we don't enforce immigration law, and who won't have valid residency status even after high school graduation? It's FUBAR.

So I'm having some sympathy for politicians who try to thread that needle of handling King Solomon's Dilemma. While I don't support the DREAM Act as written, some form doesn't seem out of bounds. Our border policy and selective enforcement of law is creating devastating unintended consequences. Perhaps there's some transitional status that could be developed wherein these students earn their residency over time but do not get the right to vote until much later (or not at all). In order to get full rights, they'd need to leave the U.S., return to their native country, and then apply like everyone else for citizenship.

Maybe Gingrich could think tank this one because what we have now is not acceptable, but quite a few people are misrepresenting what the Act actually means.

117 Bill, Cheney is rested? Can we drag the bionic warcock out for one more test - for God and Country?

118

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at September 23, 2011 10:15 PM (OWjjx)

So you're agitating for Newt, That should be interesting.

119 To be perfectly honest I wouldn't mind a good primary battle that runs through May. Toughen these guys up for the main event.

120 Ah, if only Darth Cheney could stand a run. However, with four heart attacks under his belt he's probably not up to it this year.

121

must smash and destroy all that is not One with the Perrywinkle!

 

(... I keeed!)

122 good evening all, just a couple observations from a lurker...and in no particular order because I've already had a couple, in keeping (I believe) with the general wishes of the proprietor: ... 1) Romney has already lost once at this level, so he's not just competing against "the field", he's also competing against himself (his 2008 self) and so far he's not yet winning. 2) the 1930's analog...Obama IS the Hoover (these guys have almost followed the playbook), it's the next guy or gal who get's to be FDR. Okay, hopefully not another FDR, but the point is a true candidate for secular change. Obama never represented real "change" because he was continuing 80 year old policies. (...sure he made the bigots on the left feel good about themselves, but by definition that's not change, that's a pacifier. to the rest of us he was always better suited to be Oprah's replacement than president...and that's also another reason why the media liked him so much, he was one of them...a 3rd grade reading level candidate...) Sorry for the tangent, continuing with the '30s analog, FDR was the governor of a big important state. Y'all can also see energy independence and exploration is as important now as the then newly acquired US position of financial sovereignty was in the '30s. The energy state governors have a leg up if they choose to use it. We're waiting out here to see if they do. 3) These debates are important, but honestly to most of us out here in fly-over country that aren't as political, they're also viewed as warm-ups. Like spring training in baseball or the pre-season in football. This is where the kinks are worked out. Of course the MSM and the Democrats (but I repeat myself) will be using these events for campaign fodder next year but we'll forgive most mis-steps now by all the candidates, as long as they learn from them. And candidate Bachman in a way proves my point, it was only when she went back and kept digging that hole, that she mostly buried herself. Just my 2 cents from one of her neighbors...in a neighboring state....have a great weekend all!...

123 Hollowpoint at September 23, 2011 10:18 PM

Again, I agree in part.  Most liberals don't think that way, especially the screeching leftist Guevaristas that are Obama's true base.  But media types are sure to push the Republican candidate that they believe will do the least harm to their long term goals.  Hence the lib orgasms over Huntsman.  I read an Esquire article where they blew Jon Huntsman hard for just that reason. (BTW, the Esquire was in my barbershop- I think he's a fag, but he's a damn good barber).
The libs, especially reporters and talking heads will get all misty about any Republican who they can count on to "compromise". 

124

Come on guys, get real.  Can you imagine what Obama and the MSM will do to Perry during a general election if the guy is incapable of verbally defending himself, as he was last night during the debate?

The MSM will be in the TANK for Obama.  This is their moment to prove that they can re-elect their wonder boy.  The general election debates are going to be the most blatantly unfair thing we've ever seen.  It will be like a rigged 1960's game show.

Moderator: President Obama, is is true that you can strut while sitting?

Moderator: Governor Perry, why are you evil?

That's only a SLIGHT exaggeration as to the types of questions both candidates are going to receive during the debates that will decide the election.

Nominating Perry is the equivalent of re-electing Obama.  The guy can't form a coherent sentence to save his life.

Let's nominate Romney.  Or Christie.  Or Jeb!  Or someone who is well-spoken, and who can run circles around both Obama and the sniveling MSM during the presidential debates in 2012. 

Oh!  They're all RINOS!  So what.  We're going to have like 260 GOP Congressmen and 60 GOP Senators.  Do you really think we're going to get the Global Warming Crap Act of 2013 out of a government like that.

Come on fellas.  Vote for the most electable RINO that you can stomach.  Leave Rick Perry in Texas, where no one cares if he can speak.

125 Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at September 23, 2011 10:15 PM (OWjjx)

I find your relative lack of Eeyoreish pessimism confusing.  It's never the wrong time to panic and exaggerate wildly on the Internet.

126 lowandslow: "Wouldn't be the best scenario but isn't going to be the end of the world."

It'll be the end of the beginning of the end of the world.

127 Mallamutt, all we need is normal turnout and it will be an wlectoral rout.

128 I'm confident that he can govern as President the way I'd want a President to govern. He'll go after the EPA, Obamacare, taxes, drilling in the Gulf, over-regulation, intrusive Federal government. All that stuff I care about a lot. I am confident that Mitt would not govern as President the way I'd want a Presdient to govern; and I'm not confident that Mitt would be on the right side of a single one of those issues.

129 For those so disgusted with Romney's supposedly unconservative credentials, what exactly do you see in Perry that gives you confidence he will govern in a conservative manner? He spews some of the right rhetoric, but his record of governance is not all that conservative. Let that "heartless" bullshit be a warning, that may be who the guy really is. He doubled down on it today too, didn't he?

130 50 read the comment above you. Nuff said.

131 I mean 150

132 32 My #1 priority is defeating Obama. It has to be. Without exaggeration, America cannot survive a second term. Posted by: Sammy at September 23, 2011 09:39 PM (UEB+3) I think a second term of Obama looks a lot like a first term of Romney, with the exception that the GOP and the conservative movement would be destroyed as well.

133

>> Nominating Perry is the equivalent of re-electing Obama.

hahahaha.. ELEVENTY!!11!!1  AIYEEE!!!!!!

Here, take a pill.

 

Who's your guy/gal Dave? 

134 perry another trans texas highway big gov't loser  si senor.

135

Perry's not saying you don't have a heart if you oppose illegal immigration. He's saying you don't have a heart if you want to punish kids for their parents' crime. And he's got a point. 

To qualify for the DREAM, the kids have to get in line and get legal. So we end up with educated, naturalized US Citizens. 

And if you don't like it, don't do it that way in your state. Remember federalism? Yeah, nice concept. Good to see who only believes in it when it's convenient.

@Joffen - My first vote was for Bush 41 vs Clinton. Don't feel so bad.

136 "Mallamutt, RINO Zen Master for Life"

I think Bizarro Allahpundit might fit better on a business card.

137 ricky perry texas village missing an idiot. go hillary she's bigger gov't.

138

Who's your guy/gal Dave? 

I'd prefer Chris Christie or Paul Ryan.  If I have to I'll hold my nose and vote Romney.

139 Sarah Palin does not neeto debate Mittens at this point in time. I THINK WE ALL KNOW WJERE SHE STANDS! And these debates are for Americans to get to know the candidates. Anyone NOT know Sarah. PALIN? When she gets in she will hit Obama and obomney care hard and often. Watch the light show begin when she enters the fray.

140 Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at September 23, 2011 10:37 PM (r4t7/) ------ Haha thanks. I feel bad for the poor shmucks whose first vote was McCain.

141 "He's saying you don't have a heart if you want to punish kids for their parents' crime."

thank you progg talk. next victim

142 How does anyone know if an illegal has been a resident of Texas for the required 3 years? If they said they'd been a resident for long enough to qualify for in-state tuition, how would you know they were lying?

143 "I'd prefer Chris Christie"

stuck on fat heads

144 I will vote for whoever is polling the highest and whose name is not Romney in the primary. And whose name is not Romney and not Obama in the general.

145

Chis Christie dresses down a reporter real nice, and i admire that, but he's no conservative.

everyone else has already been counted out... looks like Mittens gets it by default.

funny how that keeps working out.

146

He's saying you don't have a heart if you want to punish kids for their parents' crime.

No, he's saying you don't have a heart if you refuse to give illegal immigrants in-state tuition at colleges and universities, something that lots of U.S. citizens can't get if they live in the wrong state.  So I'm heartless for refusing to prefer illegal immigrants over American citizens.  Nice.

147

@adolfo - from their high school records. That's part of the dream act - you have to graduate here.

newrouter - got anything besides ad hominem?

148 If they said they'd been a resident for long enough to qualify for in-state tuition, how would you know they were lying? Posted by: adolfo_velasquez at September 23, 2011 10:39 PM (OOmB1) You do know that these are the general residency requirements that apply to everyone right? Everyone that wants in-state tuition has to prove residency.

149 Dave - want the resident rate in TX? Be a resident here. Like they are.

150 you losers keep playing the proggs linguistic games. send them back to mexians!!11!!

151 Chis Christie dresses down a reporter real nice, and i admire that, but he's no conservative. Posted by: shoey at September 23, 2011 10:41 PM (m6OUa) He's a bedrock of rightwing extremism compared to Romney.

152 "Everyone that wants in-state tuition has to prove residency."

yes i've lived here ILLEGALLY for 3 years. g-d the stupid

153

Dave - want the resident rate in TX? Be a resident here. Like they are.

Right.  They're residing there illegally.

Why are people twisting themselves into pretzels trying to defend Rick Perry?  Is it because he's the only defense against Romney?  Because he's from the South?  Because he's an evangelical?

154 It'll be the end of the beginning of the end of the world.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at September 23, 2011 10:31 PM (r4t7/)

Why? Who do you think is going to fundamentally change the way we govern? You could put the most socially and fiscally conservative imaginable in the White House tomorrow and things will only change at a snails pace. The liberals in congress will fight any reforms he may try to make and for the most part be successful. That's the way the our government is set up. The problem the nation has are more then just the person in the White House. The problem is the nation has slowly crept toward liberalism both socially and fiscally as evident in someone like George W. Bush. Politically he was hardly any different the JFK.
 So let's not pretend that the nation rides on the next President, hell I'm not even convinced Obama will be defeated. What does that tell you about how far left we have gone?

155 Sarah Palin does not neeto debate Mittens at this point in time. I THINK WE ALL KNOW WJERE SHE STANDS! And these debates are for Americans to get to know the candidates. Anyone NOT know Sarah. PALIN?

Yes, everyone knows who she is, and the vast majority of everyone wouldn't vote to elect her White House janitor.

156 Posted by: shoey at September 23, 2011 10:41 PM (m6OUa)

He's a bedrock of rightwing extremism compared to Romney.

Posted by: gm at September 23, 2011 10:44 PM (K0tm3)

 

respectfully, i disagree.

 

157 Dave at September 23, 2011 10:38 PM

Paul Ryan, I'm with ya.  Fat Bastard is great for New Jersey, and I enjoy his ass-chewings of teachers and other assorted government whine-babies as much as anybody.  But we don't need a Jersey Republican to run for president.  He's soft on the 2A, he's an AGW apologist, and a soft porn enviro.  He will not cut and slash- our only hope.

158 I'm still in for Perry. I haven't watched ANY of the debates. Reading the articles, comments and informing myself about each candidate is what I do. Perry isn't perfect but he supports states rights more than anyone else and, frankly, that's a big deal to me. Immigration, well, he's doing the best he can with what he has to work with...period.

159 But I don't fault Perry at all for the immigration issue. Look - in my state of California, we had the GOP go ape shit about immigration in the 90s and look at what that got us. Democrat dominance and total destruction of the GOP and the state (the only minor saving grace is that we actually require a supermajority to pass tax hikes - can you imagine how bad it'd be without that?!). On the other hand, you have the Texas GOP which is less inflammatory in their rhetoric and policies against illegals and what do you get? Strong conservative governance. Seems like a small price to pay to me, and I'd happily switch state governments with Texas in a heartbeat.

160 In the primary i will vote for Perry, because Romney is too soft I do not trust him to what is right. These debates goes without saying, are giving me headaches I want him to kick ass but he's not doing it.

161 Sarah hunts RINOS. Also Bolsheviks & SCOAMFs

162 He's soft on the 2A, he's an AGW apologist, and a soft porn enviro. He will not cut and slash- our only hope. Posted by: Alamo at September 23, 2011 10:47 PM (Cv3GE) How is that different than Romney?

163 182 In the primary i will vote for Perry, because Romney is too soft I do not trust him to what is right. These debates goes without saying, are giving me headaches I want him to kick ass but he's not doing it. Posted by: Jose out of mind at September 23, 2011 10:48 PM (m/yHZ) Something is seriously wrong when I think I could do a much, much better job of handing Romney's ass to him than an actual presidential candidate. And I am still flabbergasted as to why none of the rest of the field will say anything even resembling a negative comment about Romney.

164

>>  something that lots of U.S. citizens can't get if they live in the wrong state.

Uh, you do get it that if you're from, say, Oklahoma, or New Jersey, and you establish residency here for a year, you get the same rates, right?

Not free. Just resident rates.

165 gm at September 23, 2011 10:49 PM

I guess you haven't run across my earlier comments- It's not different than Romney- I don't like that fucker either....

166 Obligatory, I'm voting R no matter what.  Now on to the subject at hand.  He isn't mushy on illegal immigration he is for subsidizing it for illegals kids education and says I'm a heartless bastard for not wanting to.   The mere fact that the question was even discussed shows how far down the path of dissolving our border with Mexico has gone.  We shouldn't be subsidizing his education.  We should be arresting him when he applies.  We should frack down his parents and we should be packing their asses back to Mexico and confiscating their illegally gotten gains from breaking into our country.  Those that hired them should be in jail and fined.  Remember what Bush Senior and Junior did to the Republican Party. Their liberal tendencies and those of the R's in the house and senate allowed the Dems to sweep in and usher in an era of socialism that will probably bring this country down.  I was okay with Perry before the debates.  Right now both the front runners can kiss my ass.  Ohio is so far back on the primary schedule it will be decided before I vote but I will still vote my concience in our primary. 

167 respectfully, i disagree. Posted by: shoey at September 23, 2011 10:47 PM (m6OUa) If that is the case, in all seriousness, I want to hear why. I have not heard anyone able to articulate a persuasive argument that Romney would do anything better than Obama, and certainly not better than Christie (I am almost begging to be convinced - so please give me something).

168 Too bad Perry comes across as a slack-jawed,inarticulate, pretty-boy idjit ex-cheerleader whenever he attempts to present his Original Thoughts in response to a direct question. This guy is the New York Times parody version of Another Dumb Texan. I'd rather listen to Mittens, the Mormon who wears sacred holey underwear.

169 I guess you haven't run across my earlier comments- It's not different than Romney- I don't like that fucker either.... Posted by: Alamo at September 23, 2011 10:52 PM (Cv3GE) Right - but we need an alternative, don't we? Who is it going to be? Do we stick with Perry, or what? Ace and Dave are throwing their support behind Romney, but absent some sort of revelation that he's not who he appears to be, I don't see how that is justifiable.

170 He couldn't seal the deal with McCotter.  Probably not enough grease.

So the goonion vote in Michigan will go Romney.  Except for Detroit.  You know who they want.  Mmmm-mmm-mmmmmm!

171 Put me in coach.

172 the republic of texas = big gov't

173

Dave - They're residing here illegally. Their parents were not kept out by the federal government. We have to educate them K-12, per the federal government. And they're not getting deported by that government. And they're getting federal benefits from that government.

I think you're mad at the wrong people here, dude. We just decided to charge residents the in-state rate. For illegal immigrants who are residents, we say they need to get in line to get legal also. Offering a carrot because there is no federal stick being wielded. We are having to deal with the implications and realities of the US government not doing its job.

I'm not bending into a pretzel. I'm just pointing out the oversimplification.

174 hey kay bailey and w will make it bigger.

175

>> Ace and Dave are throwing their support behind Romney

I don't think you read me right.  I am not lining up behind Romney.

176 On the other hand, you have the Texas GOP which is less inflammatory in their rhetoric and policies against illegals and what do you get? Strong conservative governance. Seems like a small price to pay to me, and I'd happily switch state governments with Texas in a heartbeat.

Posted by: gm at September 23, 2011 10:48 PM (K0tm3)

Yes. Saying that will piss off some people here, but it's true. My San Antonio tea party is very careful to keep the tone at a low key even while advocating immigration enforcement, and it's trying to recruit Hispanics. Our president is Hispanic. It's very important to thread that needle just right. We can call for enforcing the law without language that needlessly inflames the situation.

177 " We can call for enforcing the law without language that needlessly inflames the situation."

screw the wet backs and the drug thugs

178 gm at September 23, 2011 10:55 PM

Fact of the matter is, if Perry can't pick up his game (he can), we'll have Mitt by default.  DiT and ace are just trying to rationalize whether there is any upside to that scenario.  Hoping for a fourth quarter savior is fantasy. 

179 Right - I guess it was the other Dave ... and I think I misread it anyway ...

180 lowandslow@176,

Actually, I was just trying to be glib. But as I think about your serious interpretation of my non-snark (no, really), I'll amend. I agree with you.

I think we "fundamentally transformed" during the Civil War. We did it again during Wilson/FDR. And post-Obama is the third trimester about to birth the death of a nation. Will Romney reverse our path? No. And not just because he cannot which my internal Eeyore confirms by saying we can't. I don't believe he is Constitutionally disposed to further small government. Unfortunately, he isn't the only one. Almost no politician has the gravitas to move our nation from the collapse. So, yeah, I don't expect much change no matter what happens. We are about to bear a Leviathon and it's the American voters' fault. We will crush ourselves, and Romney is just one of the inconsequential placeholders we diligently place in office during a commercial break.

Have a nice evening.

181 fwiw here's my take on Perry *Excellent* Paper on Israel Comments smacking AGW Fraud hell no I don't lose sleep over capital punishment *Good* Probidness, job creation record Seems to piss off a lot of libs Christian and not apologetic about it executive experience - lots *Meh* that kid shot that a bunch of fellow cons are bent up over *Bad I'd wear a clothespin* Amnesty lite; 100k present for being illegal student *Absolutely fuck you Perry end of convo* Saying those who don't want to fellate illegals have no heart

182 Actually, I was just trying to be glib.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at September 23, 2011 11:04 PM (r4t7/)

I suck at trying to figure out some comments and commenters, hell I'm still trying to figure out who gm is defending or bashing.

183
And I am still flabbergasted as to why none of the rest of the field will say anything even resembling a negative comment about Romney.

Posted by: gm at September 23, 2011 10:51 PM (K0tm3)

 

 

why say anything when your main competitor is destroying himself?

184 Dave, I just got home from the deer lease and haven't read all the comments yet.. but, your post is good. As a fellow Texan, what you said and your points are all valid with me... so here's your in-state validation. I'm hoping Perry can dig down and get tougher like I know he can. I'm also wondering if he is taking pain meds for his back surgery from a month ago or even if he can stand for long periods right now without pain , etc. Not an excuse, but I've never seen him like his debate performances, with the stumbling and poor messaging before. No excuses, he needs to take it up a notch and not be apologized for or catered to. However, the others are doing a good job of tearing him down right now... and if they are successful, the only man standing will be Mitt. And then I'll be very pissed off...

185 After reading all the shit that SCoaMF as of today want to do to us, on top of what he has in play, we r so screwed. It's fcking crazy, God give us leader that knows how to dismantle this mess, someone with big balls. Sorry for rambling

186 189respectfully, i disagree.

Posted by: shoey at September 23, 2011 10:47 PM (m6OUa)

If that is the case, in all seriousness, I want to hear why. I have not heard anyone able to articulate a persuasive argument that Romney would do anything better than Obama, and certainly not better than Christie (I am almost begging to be convinced - so please give me something).

Posted by: gm at September 23, 2011 10:53 PM (K0tm3)

 

to be completely honest i don't know who i'm going to support this time next year, i've got a while to think about it, and read.

187 Romney himself will not reverse our course, but will he stand in the way of a rightward shifted republican congress that sets the agenda? Probably not. He will gladly sign Ryan's budget. Maybe it's time to devolve power away from the presidency and back to the people and the states.

188

to be completely honest i don't know who i'm going to support this time next year, i've got a while to think about it, and read.

Posted by: shoey at September 23, 2011 11:15 PM (m6OUa)

WTH? Who decides who they're going to vote for by doing that? Reading and thinking, that's just silly, let the pundits and their staff do it for you.

189 Maybe it's time to devolve power away from the presidency and back to the people and the states.

Posted by: oleg at September 23, 2011 11:16 PM (/IuX+)

That would be the best but every President we ever had advances more executive powers.

190

WTH? Who decides who they're going to vote for by doing that? Reading and thinking, that's just silly, let the pundits and their staff do it for you.

Posted by: lowandslow at September 23, 2011 11:18 PM (GZitp)

 

it's a horrible disease...

191

i would like a full conservative, not weak on any major issues, to oppose Mittens for the nomination, i wouldn't care if it's someone relatively unknown, even a young-gun, so long as they were reliable and well-spoken, and there are such people out there.

 

that's all i'm saying.

192 One of the major selling points for me about Perry was that I had heard that he was a conservative version of Bill Clinton as a politician - good charismatic speaker, great political instincts, knows how to win elections.  I didn't need him to blow away the field in these debates, and expected a lot of getting up to speed time on foreign policy, but I am completely dumbfounded as to how this guy could get elected so many times in Texas after watching these debates.  I've never seen a major candidate have so much trouble defending basic positions that he has held for a long time.  There were only a few lines of attacks on him that everyone knew were coming, and he was completely flat-footed when they arrived.

And to stumble through a simple flip flop attack on your major rival is just inexcusable.  That has nothing to do with the big stage or national issues, that's the bare minimum of what a debate requires at any level.  Just say the issue, say the other guy was for it and now he's against it, or vice versa.  It can't get any easier than that and he blew it.  I am really wondering if there is something to this back surgery affecting him more than he's letting on, because nobody who has gotten as far as he has in politics should be that fundamentally unsound in his skills.

Policy-wise he's still the best of the field for me despite the immigration stuff, but if he performs anything like that against Obama, we'll get creamed, no matter how bad the economy gets.

And if Sarah wants to get in, do it sooner rather than later.  I want her to go through this mill as well.  If she's going to shit the bed like Perry has been doing as a debater, we need to know it early.  Don't give me this "smart for waiting" crap, if she shines in the debates, she'll zoom to the top.  If she's going to freeze again when a moderator asks her what newspapers she reads, then I need to know that so I can vote accordingly.  I like both of them a lot, but winning next fall is what matters,

193 @Concealed - Here's an article from the Texas Tribune on Perry's judicial appointments: http://tinyurl.com/3t78nxl

194 I just watched a YouTube video they have up on Redstate where Romney is debating during the 2002 MA gubernatorial election. He is defending a woman's right to choose and said he would never do anything to interfere with a woman's tight to have an abortion. He sounds so convincing when he says it. He's an untrustworthy weasel. I will never vote for him. Ever. I'll vote for Obsma first.

195 215 Posted by: Concealed Kerry or submit at September 23, 2011 11:22 PM (tHnoW) That is the core of my fear the asshat SCoaMF or not being sure on the repub side to put a Constitutionalist dwarf to stop the tide of socialism

196 Still my man on his record.  It's not about being "most conservative" to me. It's about having a long public track-record in which he's shown he keeps his eyes *mostly* on the ball.  I think he would tackle the first two years in office with a certain amount of boldness on things to do with federal over-reach.  I do not think the other candidates would do that. 

Honestly, I don't care about debates unless someone goes crazy in them.  And, fwiw, listening to the clips of Perry and Santorum that were played today on Hannity, I did not think Santorum's points were valid (he misstated things as usual), nor did I find Perry's points about the tuition bill to be as bad as painted.  And, at the end of the day a President Perry would weaken the federal Dept of Ed so I honestly don't see the worry about him pushing for in state tuition waivers nationwide. 

197 has anyone noticed we keep getting open-borders types pushed on us, even Rubio, who i like, is pretty much open-borders campish.

198 and it's not that illegal immigration is my only issue, it's just that i notice a pattern.

199 Open borders FTW. Bulldoze it. End ICE. The federal government is not suited to choosing which goods, services and people should or should not be able to enter the country. While I'm at it.... let's get those free trade agreements through Congress.

200 I'm offended by the idea that my American born and raised children cannot get in-state tuition in Texas but illegals can. I mean, really seriously offended by that. I find it wrong in multiple ways. When he wrote me off last night as heartless because of what I consider to be a legitimate beef and a real concern, I decided I'm done with the guy. Forever. He ain't my kind of guy, and he can go jump off a cliff.

201

Perry is going to be a disaster on the immigration front.  His actions in Texas have been:

- Support for in-state tuition for illegals.  (BTW, it is a benefit because I'm sure Texas subsidizes it's public universities.)  The in-state tuition differences are usually a reflection of the subsidy. 

- His flippant answer about the wall are just that flippant.  They show no true understanding of how a wall would work.

- He opposed e-verify.

- He didn't end sanctuary cities.

- His "heart" comment reeks of GWB.  It will be more time wasted on some sort of toothless enforcement with amnesty attempt that will soak up time and political capital.

For all of the Texans' tough talk and claims of rugged independence, the people of Arizona have actually shown the will to try and stop being overrun by illegals.  All Texas has done is whine and then find ways to not inflame the Mexicans.  They couldn't even follow in the path set by Arizona. 

202 @224 You are an idiot.  Such an act would end any concept of America as we know it. 

203 None of the issues you mention matter at this point. He is incoherent. That's a basic for a national candidate.

204 Nagatives? TARP? Gardisil (and his newly-discovered misrepresentation in that issue)?

205 @224 You are an idiot. Such an act would end any concept of America as we know it. Libertarians and Republicans already live in different Americas. I prefer it that way.

206 It's not about skin color, it's about entitlement. No conservative, black or white, will get those on the porch, black, white, whatever, off the porch. Those who wish to be carried will vote for a carrier.

207

Some friendly advice from a fellow Texan and Aggie to Gov. Perry:

You're a softy on illegals. Just like Bush and McCain. Own it. Don't pull the "If you disagree with me you're an evil, heartless bastard" crap. That's a standard Democrat argument. Explain yourself with, "I know many in our Party disagree with me, but here's why I believe as I do..."

People will respect that.

208 "You're a softy on illegals. Just like Bush and McCain. Own it. Don't pull the "If you disagree with me you're an evil, heartless bastard" crap. That's a standard Democrat argument. Explain yourself with, "I know many in our Party disagree with me, but here's why I believe as I do..." People will respect that." That would completely defuse the issue in the general. Voters don't need to agree with their candidate on every single issue, but if they perceive duplicity or dishonesty, they lose enthusiasm. He seems to have a similar position on migration to Bush, and it didn't hurt him. What is the anti-immigration bloc going to do? Vote for Obama on this issue? Stay home? I don't think so.

209
and that he's an Aggie

Don't take this the wrong way,  I mean it with the greatest luv, but FUCK YOU.

Pee-out, bitches! And we're going to the SEC and y'all are stuck in the BEVO-XI.

210 i think the anti-illegal immigration sentiment is still pretty strong, it's just simmering, and it isn't about race, it's about the rule of law, the federal government is not enforcing immigration law and that is really upsetting a lot of people.

211 "Pee-out, bitches! And we're going to the SEC and y'all are stuck in the BEVO-XI." Go out on a good note and beat the crap out of OU in November! Go Aggies!* *the last time this Tide fan will ever say that.

212 I like Perry.  I want to continue to like Perry.  I think Perry thinks many of the things I think.

Obligatory note:  I've had a lot of beers.  Tonight.

Yeah, he's bad in a debate.  However, unlike Romney, I do not think he wants to stab me in the back so that he'll look really, really good on the MFM talk shows.  Nor do I think he will look upon Harry Reid and say, "Wow, there is a man of integrity and principle, and boy howdy, he keeps getting elected!" (Not an OFFICIAL quote from Mitt Romney.)

I wish Perry had taken a few acting classes, like Mr. Reagan.

And I will not vote for Romney, not until he repudiates RomneyCare.  If he does not, I will not.  Yeah, I would rather see Obama back in the saddle.  At least then I will know that when I am feeling the pain, I will not be hearing "...and I'm your friend, too!"

213

I liked the last Texan president and I wanted to like this guy. But, oy meh. He's a disappointment. I think Obama could out manuever Perry without the aid of Totus, unfortunately.

As a California resident I find his soft position on illegal aliens completely unacceptable. They have ruined our state and if the problem remains unchecked, they'll be destroying your city and state also, sooner than later.

I am so tired of GOP presidential candidates who aren't the total package. We need a clone of Perry's presidential looks, Gingrich's brain and debating skills and Santorum's position on illegal immigration. But noooooooo

214 No one expects the Spanish Inquisition,

But that is what we are getting thanks to 3 or 4 Romneybots who make enough noise to account for thousands.

Everyone needs to ignore the assholes who come on here, post unattributed lies and make a lot of noise.

215

Perry Struggles to Defend His Front-Runner Status in GOP Race

 

I left yesterday because I was sick of seeing headlines like this. Fuck you Fox and fuck all the lying Romneybots.

216

With reference to illegals...Current crop of candidates be damned.  The United States need to come to grips with a wholesale migration of people from South of the Border.  I'm not going to look it up but I'm thinking there are several hundreds of millions of persons living south of us.  As long as their countries suck, they do, and we keep making it easy with each party trying to soft sell the issue, they will keep coming, by the millions...California is very close to going full "press two for english."  The rest of the country will follow if things don't change.

217 Vic you're such a likable person.

218 I know I am so just for you and the other Romneybot liars

House Bill 1403 granted certain non-immigrant students, including undocumented stu-dents, access to in-state tuition rates at Texas public institutions of higher education and state financial aid. To qualify, the bill required students to have:

o resided in Texas with a parent or guardian while attending high school in Texas,

o graduated from a public or private high school or received a GED in Texas,

o resided in Texas for the three years leading to graduation or receipt of a GED, and

o provided their institutions a signed affidavit indicating an intent to apply for per-manent resident status as soon as able to do so.

The bill passed and was codified as Texas Education Code

So Santorum and Romney, if you lying shit-weasels send you kids to TX for 3 years and had them graduate from a TX high school they too can get the same tuition rates as other TX High school graduates. 

Is that a subsidy for out of State liberal liars? Sorry Santorum I know you arenÂ’t a liberal but WTF are you doing supporting one?  Maybe that is why everybody canÂ’t stand you)

Oh just so you can contrast and compare here is the real Dream Act

This bill would provide conditional permanent residency to certain illegal alien-students of good moral character who graduate from US high schools, arrived in the US as minors, and lived in the country continuously for at least five years prior to the bill's enactment.

If they were to complete two years in the military or two years at a four year institution of higher learning, the students would obtain temporary residency for a six year period.

Within the six year period, a student may qualify who has "acquired a degree from an institution of higher education in the United States or has completed at least 2 years, in good standing, in a program for a bachelor's degree or higher degree in the United States" or have "served in the armed services for at least 2 years and, if discharged, has received an honorable discharge”

In short that bill would grant immediate amnesty to a shit load of illegal alien migrants just by attending college. The military shit is a strawman. There is already a program for foreign students to get U.S. citizenship by seving in the U.S. military and it has been in place for a dam long time. 

219 Ah well.......if Perry drops down in the polls, then maybe Bachmann, Romney and Santorum will destroy each other. ....They seem to love doing the attack dog stuff that Perry hates to do.

220

>> I'm offended by the idea that my American born and raised children cannot get in-state tuition in Texas but illegals can. I mean, really seriously offended by that. I find it wrong in multiple ways.

They can.  Live here for a year.  Just like everybody else.

You can not be offended now.

221 So now Romney supporters are liars AND bots? You're a psycho.

222 So now Romney supporters are liars AND bots?

Truth hurts? Admit you are a liberal and you will feel better.

223

248.....They can. Live here for a year.

So, the children of US citizens are elligible with one year of residency.

But the children of Illegals aren't ellligble until after three years of residency.

Hmm.....let me do the math on that. ....Children of illegals have to be residents of Texas for two years longer than the children of citizens.

So this rule that Perry is getting slammed for actually discriminates in favor of US citizens.

 

224

Look, here's what the Perry defenders don't get.  Perry called me heartless for joining millions of other conservatives in taking a pretty standard conservative position on an immigration issue dealing with illegals and tuition.  As some of the folks above have pointed out, there are reasonable arguments on both sides of the tuition issue.  If Perry had stopped there, and said that reasonable people could disagree about the tuition issue, he wouldn't have been damaged so much.  But to tell conservatives that they are heartless for taking a conservative position on an issue is something that I would expect out of the mouth of someone on the left side of the Democratic Party.  Sorry, but we hear that enough from the Democrats.  We don't need the prospective leader of the Republican Party telling other Republicans that they have no hearts for taking pretty normal Republican positions.  Not only is that offensive, but it raises all kinds of red flags about Perry.  It suggests that his core is not really conservative, because no conservative would use the heartless argument, given how frequently we have to deal with leftists pulling that on us.

So that's why you guys aren't going to be able to change our minds on this issue, because what you'd have to convince us of has nothing to do with the substance of immigration issues, and has everything to do with Perry's charge that we have no hearts.  In order to change our minds, you'd have to convince us to agree with Perry that we are indeed heartless.  Somehow I don't think that's going to happen.

Perry is done.  It's that simple.  He's done.

225 Who's done a better job of handling the human flow along the border with Mexico, the California Libs or the Texas Cons?  I'll take Perry any day.  Over the Libs & commies, over Mitt the Chameleon, over Sarah the mud wrestler, over Chris the northeastern urban pol.  Anyone who will call Social Security a Ponzi scheme in a national forum knows how to speak truth.  Like any state governor, he's got to catch up on international affairs and develop a philosophy of the place of the U.S. in the world, but every other governor-turned-president before him has been able to do that.

226 Damn. I think the L-key on my keyboard is sticking. ....Or maybe I'm just an idiot who needs more coffee and should proof read before I hit 'post'.

227 Establishing residency for tuition.  The actual rules.

228

Perry screwed the pooch on this one but I don't think he's 'done'.  Obama claims his programs aren't 'amnesty'; they just give illegals a free pass on being errr illegal - oh, and then throw in tuition and benefits!  George Orwell would be proud, speaking of which ...  http://bit.ly/qkbidO

229 "And I am still flabbergasted as to why none of the rest of the field will say anything even resembling a negative comment about Romney."

Most of them wanna be Romney's VP. As for Perry, I'm a non-Texan who's sticking with him and hoping he gets the nomination.

In direct contrast to 'Obama lite (aka Mr. Expedience),' Perry's got backbone. He doesn't have to agree with every single thing I want because he knows about running a government, he will get government out of the way, and thank God, he doesn't waste any time with political correctness. He calls something what it is, including Bernanke, and he sticks to it.

No, he's not perfect, but neither is anyone else. Hang in there for Perry, it's not over yet, in spite of what the media wants. I just hope there's still time left to even have our election -- looks like Obama & co. are racing down the road to complete their destruction before we have a chance at it.

GO Perry!

230 Problem is too many folks missing the core of the arguments that Perry needs to address. 1) Gardasil: One of the major complaints against 0bama is his wild, rampant use of executive orders. The core issue is not the vaccine, but how Perry views the use of executive powers. Perry needs to direct his answers there. 2) Illegals: Harder to defend, since there *is no path to citizenship for illegals*. However, if a bill is approved by vetoproof majority (which apparently this was), Perry had nothing to gain & everything to lose by veto. I'm OK w/ that answer. Again, Perry needs to polish this turd a lot more.

231 Ok, if not Perry, what about Romney?

You know the big question will be: Just how Mormon is Mitt Romney?

Mitt is so Mormon that his "Green Government" initiatives all involve green jello and shredded carrots, with optional whipped cream topping...

232 For all his weaknesses as a debater, and they are many, I still think Perry is the best choice. The reason is that I can trust him. His stance on in state tuition for children of illegal immigrants is unpopular. But at least he didnÂ’t take the easy way out and change his position. They have a YouTube video on Redstate showing Romney during the 2002 gubernatorial election in MA when he was defending the right to have an abortion, even for girls under 18 without parental consent. You can search for it on YouTube under "Romney on Abortion - 2002". It doesn't surprise me. Listening to Romney trying to deny that he didnÂ’t change a part of his book between the hardcover and paperback editions didnÂ’t surprise me. The debates arenÂ’t just about performance. They also help reveal the character of the candidates. On this point Romney did not do well. Lord forgive me, but I cannot vote for Romney. He's a weasel. I'll vote for Obama first.

233 Tardasil - is that what Doctor Who puts on when he gets a rash from that old police box?

234 If Perry gets it, I'll hold my nose and vote for him. He's way too soft on illegal immigration.

Hoping it will be Cain or West.

Romney & Perry are just too squishy.

235

Perry is on the crazy train and he knows it.  Bachman handled the vaccination poorly but the point is no one has the right to force you to do anything against your will unlessb there is a major justification for it.  And please don't give us the voluntary opt out BS, if this were the issue then Perry wouldn't have resorted to the tactics he used or apologize for it now.  This is exactly what Romney did and why he is being crushed now.

 

Perry is a liar.  He is more than weak on immigration.

He is a big spender.

He grows government.

Worse he is a RINO, but shudder, in 1988 he ran Gore's campaign in Texas.  Yeah he's a conservative, and so will Barrack be in ten years.

Would you buy a used car from Perry?

 

236

#251

 

Wow what logic.  You actually believe this?

 

I've got some beachfront land in Utah you'll love.

 

And you might want to vote for Obama, after all he is for hope and change.

237

#248

Dave in Texas:

 

You mean except for illegal aliens who get in state tuition.  Tell me again why an illegal alien should get something a citizen can't.  Justify to me why the money for an illegal should be denied to a born and bred Texan.

Our laws used to require the deportation of legally admitted aliens who became public burdens.  We now have become a nation of weassels who can justify any criminal action if the possibly exists of using women and children as human shields for such justification exists.

Perry would be a better man if he devoted as much time to the welfare of Texas as to illegals.

The idea that illegals are somehow screened is a joke.  In El Paso there are students crossing the border to attend schools in the USDA everyday.  To say there isn't a double standard is a joke.

238 Yeah, I'm not going to pretend the illegals issue isn't a critical one for me. I'm tired of talking-to-the-hand with these Bush/Perry types and the Chamber of Commerce. If you like these invading Illegals and cry a tear for the wants of their offspring, you can't have my vote. I don't really like Romney, I don't know anyone who really does, but if he'll give us what we want in exchange for what he wants, that's a good deal for me.

239
I am not clear if I totally understand the full thought pattern behind this.

240 Justify to me why the money for an illegal should be denied to a born and bred Texan.

What money?

241 The GOP can't win this election without splitting the Latino vote. Obama won with 67% of that vote. Bush won with 41-44% splitting that vote.

Romney,Santorum, and Bachmann were stupid beyond belief to turn instate tuition into an immigration issue cause you can't flip on that in the general & that is the only issue that binds that voting block. The GOP can't win being the anti-immigration party but they can win being the border security & jobs.

In going after Perry they'd tank the GOP in the general. Stupid tactics and losing strategy.

242 "What About The Children..?" RINO Rick Perry revealed his treasonous colors in last nights debate when he said that those who refused his DREAM Act hispandering did not "have a heart." What about the children who,through no fault of their own,were born to African American parents? What about the children who,through no fault of their own,were born to white parents? What about the children who,through no fault of their own,were born to American parents? Who is heartbroken about a kid from Oklahoma having to pay out of state tuition to go to school in Texas? Why are our elites ONLY worried about the children of illiterates who illegally come to America to take advantage of free benefits? Is Rick Perry and the Mexican government racist against native born American children? http://elvisnixon.com/2011/09/24/what-about-the-children.aspx