1 Please, no more Palin posts for a week as your penance.

2 Hell, I have been annoyed with Palin for a while now.

3

ace there are such things as outliers. ask Zogby

4 Hell, I have been annoyed with Palin for a while now.

Here too.

5 Is ace a composite of bloggers and this is one I haven't noticed before?

6 I really don't understand what Ace is talking about with this post

7 I don't see what's wrong with that headline.  Or was it another headline?

Please, no epic length apology posts!

8 It's good of you to say this..Please note that many other people made the same observation that this poll seems to be highly suspect. There were some great posts last year about which polling outfits do good work, especially consistent good work. I don't recall Marist polling doing well. Perhaps a link or sidebar reference to a 'poll of polls' would help.

9 Yub nub, eee chop yub nub

10 I am a Palin fan who is also becoming annoyed with her lately. That said, I really get turned off by the Sullivan-like level of Palin hatred I see here sometimes.

11

Posted by: Blue Hen at September 21, 2011 01:23 PM (6rX0K)

RCP's average (poll of polls), Ras, and PPP with a week to go until the election are the most accurate in my opinion

12 Eh, sometimes a little red meat offsets the potatoes. Or something.

13 sock off dammit!

14 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

And I think, on polls, what you need is a trend from the same poll.  Like Rasmussen does all the time- same questions, asked at different periods, and the results posted for comparison.  Just one-shot polls really are worse than useless, because even the internals there won't tell you enough.

15 It was a typo. The headline ace meant to type was, "Shut Your Whore Mouth Bachmann!"

16

Posted by: SCOAMF at September 21, 2011 01:23 PM (Q6lFa)

yeah bro I hate Sarah Palin/s

17 Coroway manna coo-too, tim nee ah wunday ooss, vu tata rundi SCOAMF

18 It is, however, a fact that 5% of all polls yield results well outside the margin of error.

I like to put it this way: at least 1 out of every 20 social science studies is complete crap.

And that's assuming perfect methodology.

19

emotion-spawned

Whatever you do, don't try to get a mental image of that compound word.

Esp. not one involving Ewoks.

20 Ignore Palin until she runs for Senator in Arizona against Maverick.  Then go at it.

21

Posted by: dfbaskwill at September 21, 2011 01:25 PM (71LDo)

Mack won't run in 2016

22 Kiney chattu toma tip-yip, Ace

23 Actually, I have a question: I know Ron Paul always starts big and then fades with a whimper once things really get started- but what's with this constant performance at #3 over the last several nation-wide polls I've seen?

24 If you want GULP with EVERY new poll, up, down, sideways...GULP...got to HotAir

25 15 It was a typo. The headline ace meant to type was, "Shut Your Whore Mouth Bachmann!"

"And Get Me a Sammich!"

26 Perry is currently losing to Obama by 8.2 points in the RCP average, while Palin is losing to Obama by an average of 11.6.  Not a huge difference. 

27
Caption for the pic:

"Talk to the hand, my little yellow friend."

28 Hell, I have been annoyed with Palin for a while now.

Me too, still no sammich.

29

I'll be honest. I can't wait until October 31st. That's the filing deadline for several primary states.

If she isn't getting in by that point, then the blogs and networks can ignore the "will she or won't she" crap from here on out.

If she gets in then she'll be fair game like every candidate and she'll have to prove that she's the best choice for the Republican party, but at leas then she'll be a legitimate topic of discussion. I don't think she is at the moment.

30 It would be easier for me to get on the Palin bashing wagon if I weren't constantly fantasizing about having sex with her.

31 10 I am a Palin fan who is also becoming annoyed with her lately. That said, I really get turned off by the Sullivan-like level of Palin hatred I see here sometimes.

Posted by: SCOAMF at September 21, 2011 01:23 PM (Q6lFa)

Totally uncalled for!

32 30 It would be easier for me to get on the Palin bashing wagon if I weren't constantly fantasizing about having sex with her.

"Leave the glasses and boots on, Sarah"

33 Clearly, HtP, she's a RINO for not going along with your plans.

34 I don't mind Palin-bashing headlines, as long as they get Molon Labe's pussy-panties in a wadded little bundle.

Anything that pisses that munchkin off is fine by me.  He's like our own right-wing Greg.

35 10 I am a Palin fan who is also becoming annoyed with her lately. That said, I really get turned off by the Sullivan-like level of Palin hatred I see here sometimes.

My question is, do you feel that annoyed by the 'hatred' (which I think is rarely hatred and usually just disgust or ridicule) directed at other candidates politicians, too, because it seems to me that they all receive a certain measure of it.  For each one of the prominent candidates there's a faction of folks who hate them and another faction of folks who, on any given day, are really annoyed with them. 

For example, I don't hate Bachmann, but I'm fed up with her, while my negativity towards Romney has gone past that to a thing that I confess is now approaching utter disregard (you might call it 'hate,' I wouldn't).  Whether or not I make the effort to couch my comments about those two in unemotional careful language is a function of (1) what type of day I'm having and (2) how their supporters are behaving at the time.  I'm not going to apologize for it and I don't think Ace should. 

I guess my point is that this is just the way things are at political blogs.  If you find yourself deciding that a blog is too biased in a way you can't stomach - and you conclude it's really a bias and not just the normal flow of political infighting - you have to find another blog to read. 

36 "Leave the glasses and boots on, Sarah"

Posted by: The Robot Devil at September 21, 2011 01:30 PM (136wp)

Ya see!  That's just what I mean!  BRB

37 But.......polls are for strippers and skiers.....unless they show meeee gaining on the other candidates!

38 Ingrained misogyny will do that to ya.

39

On Perry, he was bound to come back down to earth in the polls. It wasn't as though he was going to maintain a 20 point lead on the rest of the field forever.

What I find interesting about the polls is how Bachmann is in Jon Huntsman territory now. She's polling below Paul, Gingrich, Cain and Santorum in several polls. I guess the Guarditard angle wasn't such a wise move after all.

Also, Gingrich has been rising in the polls I've seen. I bet he wished there were 20 debates instead of 5-6. That guy really knows how to debate and play to the crowd. 

There is another debate Thursday. This time it's hosted by Fox and Google, I hope it's better than the last fox debate.

40

"I'll be honest. I can't wait until October 31st. That's the filing deadline for several primary states.

If she isn't getting in by that point, then the blogs and networks can ignore the "will she or won't she" crap from here on out."

The Michigan filing deadline is Oct 14. 

41 I think those who say this is a feint, the media telegraphing who they want to oppose Zero, are correct --baiting or no.

42 What are the odds that this poll is just something to get Palin nominated because no one thinks she can win, so it's the media pulling a fast one on us AGAIN.

43 Re: Palin Hating. All candidates play this "tease the audience". It is important decision when to enter, what states to campaign in and who with to ally yourself. SP is just playing the game, if some people get annoyed - that's part of the process.

44 eh.  Talking about polls is obviously something many people like to talk about, even if they realize until the repub candidate is picked, these don't amount to much.  The OdipO disapproval seems to me always the one to watch.  I don't even care about the approval in those polls.  People who disapprove are people motivated to vote.

The good thing about this poll, whether you believe it or not, is it adds to the cascade preference against Obama.  And that's a good thing.

45

Palin is not going to jump in the race.

She is not stupid. ....A President must be able to make split second decisions. ....It doesn't look good on your resume that it took you nine months to even decide if you want to run for President.

46 Don't fret Ace. Try a Midol/Xanax combo with a tequila chaser. It's how I get through about 3 days every month without decapitating someone.

47 She's just getting her "ducks in line".

48 Palin poll numbers are irrelevant because she isn't running.

The only way Palin would even *consider* a serious run at this point were if she were polling significantly above all the other Republican candidates (she isn't) and in multiple REAL polls (she isn't).

49 The poll was completely schizophrenic. It also had Republicans disfavoring her run by a margin of 74-24 percent.

How the hell do you rectify those two findings? Very bizarre.

50 Okay, well since no one else is saying it, I will. I'm not annoyed with Palin, nor am I distressed that she's "teasing" us or whatever. I don't care if she waits until the last minute to make an announcement, either. If she runs, I'm going to support her in the primary. If she doesn't, I'll decide on someone else at that point.

51

I am a Palin fan....but....PERRY does it for me !

I think some of these polls are a little funny.  I think they post the results so that who they think Obama can beat, is ahead. (Giving Palin as false sence of security, that she could win.)  Have you noticed the positive pieces in NYTimes lately?  And Nader mentions how great she is. 

52 When Perry was riding at his highest point, people were saying even then he was getting the new kid bump and that his numbers would fall.  I thought that was a given.  I never expected it to stay so high.

We'll see if it edges back up.

Inevitable future poll question:  "Do you think Romney would be a better president than Obama or that hick from Texas?"

53 Not incidentally, Palin has more or less already admitted that she has no real intention of running, but is just playing "coy" about it because it gives her more of a platform.

One more time:
PALIN
IS
NOT
RUNNING
PERIOD.

54 Palin? Ya, I would hit it......

55 Apologies for such a weak, and emotion-spawned, post.

Did you mean to say posts?

/

56

>>>Re: Palin Hating. All candidates play this "tease the audience". It is important decision when to enter, what states to campaign in and who with to ally yourself. SP is just playing the game, if some people get annoyed - that's part of the process.

I guess, but how much longer can she drag this out? I remember Perry getting crap for dragging it out until August.  She's literally doing it until the last possible second.

I don't think she's getting in because she has no ground game. There appears to be no state by state infrastructure set up for her to us if she decides to campaign.

If she is going to depend on the motivation of diehard supporters, than the best she can hope for is 10%.  That's essentially how Ron Paul runs his campaign. He's guaranteed to get his supporters out there and nothing more. 

Primaries aren't too disimilar from general elections, where you need to convince the unconvinced to vote for you. Diehards always turn out for their people and they always will, but that's not enough to win a primary or a general election.

So if she does plan on getting in, she has scant time to put together the 50 state infrastructed needed to win a primary campaign.

57 *then

58 Why apologize for the post? It was a nice contrast to the HA post on the same subject.  And it was also nice to see the AOS commenters respond to the post in a non suck-ass way, unlike the Palin brigade over at the other site.  Nothing about the post was objectionable, so apology refused.

59 It really was baiting and stupid of me to do that.
Agreed.

It is, however, a fact that 5% of all polls yield results well outside the margin of error.
Agreed

The Perry erosion I believe a little more -- it's been a not-terrific two weeks for him.
Agreed.  I would also say with the Perry erosion some of the people who supported him at first and have now left may have gone to Palin instead.  Not many, mind you, but a few.

Perry is going to frag himself if he doesn't start explaining himself better on the issues people bring up as his negatives.

60 "I guess, but how much longer can she drag this out? I remember Perry getting crap for dragging it out until August.  She's literally doing it until the last possible second."

Okay, but so what? That's why there are deadlines. Time to decide is sort of baked into the cake.

61

Google chairman expecting miracles quid pro quo.

62 #23

Paul's supporters are notorious on-line poll-spammers.

They seem to think that the more polls they spam, the better Paul looks and therefore the better he'll do.   Unfortunately for them, it doesn't work that way, but the point is if you see ANY self-selected poll that lists Ron Paul, you should automatically assume the results are BS. 

63 One more time:
PALIN
IS
NOT
RUNNING
PERIOD.

Posted by: looking closely at September 21, 2011 01:40 PM (PwGfd)

So, if she does run, does this mean you are an idiot who shouldn't be listened to?  I don't understand these silly posts.

64 But, but, but you are an anti-Palin misogynist!!1!!1!!!1!

65 I think any GOP conservative that has an impressive background will leap forward in the polls, and then see some erosion.

That's just the way it is.  Perry will also see some gains over time as people get to know him.  Right now, a lot of people are hearing lies and are on the fence.

It's up to Perry to overcome that.  If he doesn't, he won't be our nominee, nor should he be.  I think he'll be just fine.  He's got a record that demolishes all his competitors' resumes, even if you combine them.

Remember, Perry will never be the smoothest debater.  He will be able to get his point across, but he's not the slick salesman, and I think that there's both good and bad in that.

Elites think he's stupid unless he has 100 rehearsed things to say, but I think he's probably one of the smarter guys on stage, actually thinking through his answer and talking through the answer from his actual principles (sometimes he'll say something I disagree with, but at least he's not a flip flopper).

The debates will continue to highlight the differences between Perry and Romney.  They both have a similar agenda.  Romney sells it smoothly, but has never actually walked the walk.  Perry actually means it, and has tremendous proof he can make this kind of conservatism work, but he's more of a normal sounding person explaining it.

One's ready for prime time, the other is ready for the white house.

66 What I find interesting about the polls is how Bachmann is in Jon Huntsman territory now. She's polling below Paul, Gingrich, Cain and Santorum in several polls. I guess the Guarditard angle wasn't such a wise move after all.

I was a big Bachmann fan, but there was a point I reached several days before that debate where suddenly I realized I was tired of her caterwauling cheerleader screeching at campaign events--like the pop of my own little preference bubble.  It started to seem overdone and, frankly, kind of weird.  "Oh, she's yelling again.  How exciting. What a surprise.  Why?"

67 "And it was also nice to see the AOS commenters respond to the post in a non suck-ass way, unlike the Palin brigade over at the other site."

There's a lot of ass-suckage that goes on here when it comes to Palin comments, primarily from her detractors. That's far game, I suppose, but let's not pretend that this place is somehow highbrow when it comes to Palin discussion.

68

>>>Okay, but so what? That's why there are deadlines. Time to decide is sort of baked into the cake.

Again, you're looking at this from the point of view as a supporter.

There are plenty of Republicans, myself namely, who would have been open to a Palin run but have decidedly moved on at this point.

I have elimated her from the list of people I would vote for in the primaries. Judging by the comments here and other blogs, I'm clearly not alone.

So he continued game isn't helping her with a segment of the party that, at one point, would have been willing or considered casting a vote for her.

People will move on. People are moving on. 

69 In fairness, shouldn't we wait for Andrew Sullivan to weigh in on this before we make up our minds?

70 Glasses and boots, very nice...

71 I'd believe it more if Palin had made a particular splash lately. The Crony Capitalism speeches have been good, but didn't seem to change anyone's opinion about her personally one way or the other.

72

"SCOAMF at September 21, 2011 01:23 PM "

for me (only speaking for myself) it's not so much "bashing" Palin - even though her schtick has gotten OLD and she seems to be a gloryhound without all the work - as it's pushing back against the rabid, unhinged, people-wishing-death-on-me Palinistas.

 

73 #55

Expanding on that (and relevant here) Palin said explicitly that she was advised not to deny running for President by Newt Gingrich (who ought to know) because the second she did that, the press would skip over her.

That's why Gingrich keeps running even though he knows he doesn't have a chance of actually getting the nomination; it keeps his "stock" (ie profile) higher, and that's helpful in all sort of ways.

Palin also said explicitly that the only way she'd run is if no other viable Conservative candidate emerged.  I don't remember hearing her personal opinions on the two, but taking her at her word, does she really think that neither Romney nor Perry are viable Conservative candidates?

Again, she ain't running.  She's playing coy because the exposure helps her, and she has even so much as said this, though she deliberately said it in a way requiring some reading between the lines.

74 I think Ace is just frustrated.  It's easy to write a blog that just says "We are awesome!  The opposition sucks!"  Anyone can just toss red meat to a group of fans.

But to write several paragraphs in a post and then to be ignored or attacked by ad hominems by people who don't want to engage an issue (and this from his own side of the political aisle) ... it's not fun.

75 There is only one poll that matters. And Perry and Romney won't be participating.

76

"Again, you're looking at this from the point of view as a supporter."

Nonsense! I'd say the same thing about any other candidate.

"There are plenty of Republicans, myself namely, who would have been open to a Palin run but have decidedly moved on at this point."

Suit yourself, but I think that's silly, especially if you're saying you'd refuse to support her solely because she took too long to make up her mind.

77 Posted by: Dustin at September 21, 2011 01:45 PM (fF625)

Perry's also got positions (you might not agree with them) and consistency.  Makes things easier and honest.  Romney needs to think of his position du jour.  He does it well but my 6th sense tells me he is saying what he thinks he needs to say.

78

>>>Palin can probably put number 4 together quickly but everything else takes time. And that is something she is running out of. And yes, I picked the Iowa date as your deadline cause lets be honest, if she gets in and doesn't win Iowa, she is toast - she won't win New Hampshire and then the money drys up and she probably isn't competative in South Carolina.

 

Also, add to that the fact the best advisors, the best campaign teams, the best multi-media production artists will already be signed up with campaigns.

So she'll be picking from the leftover campaign squads of Hunstman, Santorum and Bachmann as they continue to fade.

If you look on the sidebar, I put up a link to Perry's first presidential ad. It was made by the former video producer or Pawlenty's campaign. The best people are already moving toward Perry and Romney.

Palin will have nothing to work with if she does get in late.

79 71 In fairness, shouldn't we wait for Andrew Sullivan to weigh in on this before we make up our minds?
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber

+1
Agreed Hussein the Plumber because Andy is the be all end all of all knowledge concerning vajayjays.

80

Palin will have nothing to work with if she does get in late.

Think she will "Rudy" her chances?

81

Palin will have nothing to work with if she does get in late.

Posted by: Ben at September 21, 2011 01:51 PM (wuv1c)

Wait...what?

82 I see no problem with Palin behaving like she's running while not running.

I just think she is a legitimate target for criticism.  Just as much as Newt would be, for example.

I appreciate she is taking her message to the people, and I don't begrudge that she's making a living doing so.  I think she's earned it.

But I won't vote for her for then nomination.  She doesn't care, since she isn't actually running.

83 Just Ace auditing for Brook's job again.

84 Yes, we have those filing deadlines in Oct and they are legal hurdles. However, there is also a practical deadline. That date depends on what the other candidates are doing.

With high name recognition you can wait a while after the other candidates but waiting until after labor day when everyone else has been announced and running for months is not possible.

It is NOW too late for her to get into the race and her attacks on the leading candidate are only helping the Dems. That being said, she hasn't been as viscous about it as Bachmann.

85

>>>Wait...what?

There aren't a shit load of good campaign teams, advisors and multimedia producers out there.  They are finite in number.

The best ones are already joining or have joined Romney and Perry's campaign.

How many of them are going to jump ship for a Palin campaign?

Campaigns are complicated things and like a company, you need the best to win.

 

86 "Perry's also got positions (you might not agree with them) and consistency.  Makes things easier and honest.  Romney needs to think of his position du jour.  He does it well but my 6th sense tells me he is saying what he thinks he needs to say.

Posted by: observer at September 21, 2011 01:51 PM (rZlYx)"

Yes.  I have criticized Perry for some of these issues for years and years.

And yet, he's not pretending them away.  He just explains why he did what he did, and admits some of it didn't always work out, and lives with it.

A reasonable person will look at his entire record.  Twelve years worth of balanced budgets.  Real ones, not fake projections like Romney tried in his last year of office (over a billion dollar shortfall in reality for such a tiny state!)

Perry actually means it when he says spending should be cut if it can, in boom times, in hard times, whatever.  Because it's the taxpayer's money.  Romney raised taxes and spending when governor, and now promotes an agenda very similar to how Perry actually led.  I can trust Perry on his promises because even when they are unpopular, he doesn't flip flop.  He does try to smooth things out with an explanation, but that's about it.

That's what's so annoying about this social security thing.  Romney's passive aggressive folks say Perry promised to abolish SS, and this is flip flopping, when Perry is just being consistent and being misquoted.  I guess the idea is to bring Perry down to Romney's level on consistency, because Romney has actually flip flopped. His supporters are not actually rejecting anyone on that basis, in other words.

But I don't hate Romney.  He's a smart guy, and he's a very competent businessman, and he's an OK politician, though I note he's lost most elections he's attempted, much unlike Perry, who may not be the smoothest debater, but I don't think that's where elections are won.

The presidency is a damn serious thing.  We need someone who means what they say.   I do want Perry to improve his debate performance, but not too much.  And it's not everything.

87 Can't handle the heat from the Palinistas on Twitter, huh Ace? Coulter and Ingraham must feel vindicated.

88 If Palin gets in, she'll be Perry's Huckabee.

89 This was the state of the race at this time in 2007.

Guiliani 28%, Fred (ahem) 23%, McCain 15%, Romney 9%

90 "Can't handle the heat from the Palinistas on Twitter, huh Ace? Coulter and Ingraham must feel vindicated.

Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 21, 2011 01:59 PM (6YPY+)"

LOL.

I don't see what's so bad about Ace's other post.  I think folks need to have a sense of humor about it.  If you're a Palin fan, at some point, you need to have thick skin.  I like Palin, but some of her fans are annoying as all hell because they just can't take any grief. 

It's not healthy.

91 "Guiliani 28%, Fred (ahem) 23%, McCain 15%, Romney 9%

Posted by: cherry pi, terrorist hostage taking SOB at September 21, 2011 02:01 PM (OhYCU)''

Interesting. Romney was able to gain support at the end from folks who felt he was their last resort.  Romney is in a tough position. Too many tea party folks will actually vote against him.

92 Posted by: Dustin at September 21, 2011 02:02 PM (fF625)

The post itself wasn't bad at all, but he might be referring to what it led to in the comments. It got sort of nasty, but nothing I haven't seen before on every single Palin thread this past year.

93

When Palin started using that "Crony Capitalism" term.....a little red light went off in the back of my brain.

I couldn't put my finger on it at first.

But then I remembered......that is a term that the Alex Jones crowd has been using for years. ....The little anarcho-socialists use it as well, to condemn the concept of Capitalism....and declare that "capitalism doesn't work!"

The term 'Cronyism' has been around for decades. ....So why did Palin choose to add the word 'Capitalism' to it?

This, added to her pro-union stance toward her union "brothers and sisters" is yet another reason for me to doubt that Palin is the 'one true conservative' that she would have us believe she is.

We have seen union protesters holding up signs in support of socialism and condemning capitalism too many times for me to dismiss this concern. ....She doesn't open herself up to any hard questions about this, so we don't know if she is really anti-capitalism. .......We can only go by what little she actually does say, which is giving me heartburn at this point.

94 About the "Palin won't be able to find people Late" idea... I am of the opinion she already has people and is organizing in every state.. Has been for months.

95

>>If Palin gets in, she'll be Perry's Huckabee

I agree. She'll simply give us Romney.

96 I left AoSHQ because Ace was whining about how hard it was bearing the burden of prosecuting the Anthony Weiner scandal.

Now he's apologizing and whining again about . . . something.

Man up, dude.

97 97, But then I remembered......that is a term that the Alex Jones crowd has been using for years.

You seem to know a lot about Alex Jones.  Are you are truther also? 

98 Just check o4p....

99 You seem to know a lot about Alex Jones.  Are you are truther also?

No but I am. Meet me in San Fran, baby.

100 Now I logged into this here website right as soon as I got done signin' into my AOL. I gotta tell you guys something, and it comes from the heart, but those there fancy schmancy blue-blood filin' deadlines over there, ya know who created 'em? I'll give ya a hint Ace of Spades posters, it sure as heck wasn't we the people. It was that establishment GOP over there working with their crony capitalist buddies to put restrictions on democracy. Now I've said I'm gonna run one of the most unconventonalest campaigns in history and if that means ignorin' restrictions put in place by that there establishment elite, then so be it.

101 "I agree. She'll simply give us Romney."

GOP history almost dictates that it's going to be Romney already. Are you really going to put the blame on her if the GOP does what it does almost every time anyway (i.e., the moronic selection of the guy whose "turn" it is)?

102 104, OK thats funny

103 Please, no more Palin posts for a week as your penance.

How 'bout just no more.

First, she's not news. Palin stories are stories-about-stories-about-her stories. "Palin" is a media/media-commentary circle-jerk the actual Palin (who isn't doin' shit right now) isn't even in.

Second, squishy types' Palin commentaries are never interesting. They're usually Sullivan with the 'gina-terror-sweats laundered out, and even when they're not, they're just yeah-what-he-saids of re-re-redigested libtard/Rove shit everyone's already had shat at them by a thousand libtards (and Rove).

Look— We all have things that we react so strongly (by which I mean crazily) against that we have no insight into those things, or into our own thinking (such as it is) about those things, or into anyone else's thinking about or reaction to those things.

It's wise to STFU about those things.

104 The term 'Cronyism' has been around for decades. ....So why did Palin choose to add the word 'Capitalism' to it?

Because she's vacuous and couldn't give a shit about the connotation of the term, as long as it makes a good soundbite.

105 107, I see what you're thinking about what we are thinking.  I think you are right... about those things.

106 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

107 >>ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 21, 2011 02:06 PM (wdX1z) I've been tired of the Hamlet on the North Slope act for some time but the issue of cronyism and pay to play politics has been dogging Perry for years. I'd have less of a problem of her addressing it if she actually got off her ass and got into the race officially. She's been running every since November 2008 but doing it from the safety of Fox and twitter. She and her followers have had no problem calling out anyone and everyone who isn't Palin but any criticism of her is either vagina hate or a clear demonstration of RINOism. The act has worn thin.

108

101....You seem to know a lot about Alex Jones. Are you are truther also?

No cherry pi, not a truther.

Someone sent me that anti-Obama video that Alex Jones did a few years ago. ...So I watched it and then read around on his website for a while until I figured out what he was about. ....It's good to know what the looney loons are saying, don't you think?

I've also watched some of the videos put out by the anarcho-socialists. ....Doesn't mean I am one of them either.

109 Because she's vacuous and couldn't give a shit about the connotation of the term, as long as it makes a good soundbite.

I'm saddened that my fellow conservatives know so little.  Truly saddened.  Or, maybe you know that she has used this term since her mayoral run, and you just make up stuff.

Either way, I'm still saddened... and stuff.. about these things.

110 Given the tenor of this post, I'm not going to hold out hope for a follow up focusing on Big Hair Alaska.

111 Big Hair Alaska.

Is that some slogan for a Romney/ Palin run?  Or even a Perry/ Palin run?

112 I'm saddened that my fellow conservatives know so little.  Truly saddened.  Or, maybe you know that she has used this term since her mayoral run, and you just make up stuff.

Either way, I'm still saddened... and stuff.. about these things.

So she's been using populist drivel for the past decade and a half? She's awfully good at pointing out the cronyism in Obama's admin, but when it comes to the wicked establishment GOP in congress and running for president, she's a bit short on details. If you're going to indict both parties, you need to have specifics from both parties.

113 Is that some slogan for a Romney/ Palin run?  Or even a Perry/ Palin run?

Heh. No, it's a travelogue on TLC about Palin's hairdresser in Wasilla. I saw a blurb about it on an entertainment blog the other day. Nobody can say Palin doesn't have great coattails.

114 I am of the opinion she already has people and is organizing in every state.. Has been for months

You know, when I moved here (Utah) a little over a year ago I tried to get the measure of the politics of this (very red) state.  I encountered a lot of Romney supporters, many of whom have since expressed their dissatisfaction with him (with comments like: I donated to his campaign last time but I won't this time), as well as some Ron Paul supporters (mostly from a distance, ie: their bumper stickers - it's best to not get too close) and a few Palin supporters.  I thought the ones I met from Palin's camp might be an indication of deeper support here, but in all honesty, I see no evidence of it. In fact, I've met more Bachmann supporters than Palin supporters. 

So take it for what you will, but if she has an organization in Utah, it's not very active in the pro-business traditional GOP circles I've been traveling in. 

115

 

118  ...Yeah, Oily, that thing she does about beating up on conservatives...who are more conservative than she is...is one of the things that makes me believe she's not running.

Pissing off the party that you are hoping to win the nomination from is not a winning strategy. ....Not a good way to get campaign donations either.

116

"The act has worn thin."

It must be a cold day in Hell Straw for you and I to agree 100% on something.

Wear a coat.

117

Yes, I remember when the Tea Party first started to gain steam.

 

That was when diverse groups of citizens fed up with high taxes and government waste rose up to demand we find a moderate Republican squish who wouldnÂ’t frighten the all-important independents and who the mainstream press found intellectually acceptable.  This paramount of Washington-speak would lead us to victory next November.

 

Are we sure John McCain isnÂ’t available?

118 it's not very active in the pro-business traditional GOP circles I've been traveling in.

That will change when the "elimination of corp income tax" policy is more well known.

119 Please, Palin ain't running against Perry or Romney.

She announces and it's all over for the GOP field.

Onward to November, kids.

120

112....The act has worn thin.

Yep. Thin as an eggshell. ....Which is why she doesn't want to get in the arena and be asked any tough questions like the other candidates are subjecting themselves to.

To his credit, Romney said some good things against the union thugs the other day. ....Something that the other candidates have not done yet.

 

121 123   No, but his partner in crime is going to win it all, I hear.

122 Here's a thought. Palin either will or will not run in the primaries. If she does run, she either will or will not get the nomination.

123 No I meant o4p... I think I read someplace she already has the core team put together and has had it for months. Probably at c4p in the comments. A tiny bit of inside baseball gets aired over in there, just enough so the nistas know whats going on..

124 Now the fact that she is started does not mean she has done a good job at it.. I like her but who is to say that things will work out.

125 >Sorry About the Highly-Baiting Palin Headline Well Ace you've certainly gotten pretty good at this baiting business. In fact you seem to have mastered it. Clearly you are a master baiter.

126 I get the feeling that some of you just want the Tea Party to be a right wing version of Kos or DU. 

No dissent ever!  Look how angry we are!  Stick it to something!  We should get our demands due to our birthright!

127

Posted by: St. Sarah, the Undefeated at September 21, 2011 02:12 PM (TUax9)

AHOY!

128 10 I am a Palin fan who is also becoming annoyed with her lately. That said, I really get turned off by the Sullivan-like level of Palin hatred I see here sometimes.
I'm not really a big fan of hers, and have been highly annoyed by the "will she - won't she" mystery about her running.   That said, nothing makes me more inclined to side with and defend Palin than a crazed hateful freak like Andrew Sullivan.  He's too stupid to realize that that degree of venom, which is also exemplified by this salacious book that just came out about her, does nothing but make her sympathetic to people.

129

"She announces and it's all over for the GOP field."

I LOL'd.

130 "The post itself wasn't bad at all, but he might be referring to what it led to in the comments. It got sort of nasty, but nothing I haven't seen before on every single Palin thread this past year.

Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 21, 2011 02:05 PM (TUax9)"

Sure the comments got nasty.  I don't know what folks expect.  People are mean if they don't like Perry,or Bachmann or Romney ... and why shouldn't that apply to Palin too?

Is it fair?  Usually no.  So what?

As you say, Palin brings out a lot of assholes.  I like Palin, and often the assholes make me want to defend her and even see her vindicated with a huge election win, but of course, this is about America recovering, not Palin, who I think has landed on her feet and is doing just fine.

Her most devoted people remind me of Paul's, especially in how they go out of their way to inflate support for Ms Palin.  I don't think she's nearly as popular as it seems online.  Most people who like her will be voting for Perry, even if she runs.  She's very smart and already knows that.

131 52 Okay, well since no one else is saying it, I will. I'm not annoyed with Palin, nor am I distressed that she's "teasing" us or whatever. I don't care if she waits until the last minute to make an announcement, either. If she runs, I'm going to support her in the primary. If she doesn't, I'll decide on someone else at that point.
THIS, morons.

132

55, 58, 76 et al:  Agree she's unlikely to run. 

I'll say it again - her unfavorable/unqualified numbers are sky-high - conservatively 60%+ among the general electorate - in all the results I've read in 2011 (January, April, June).  Those numbers aren't getting better.  Who's going to sign on to help run a campaign with those kind of headwinds ?  Who's going to donate ?

60%+ means that only the same people who voted for her ticket last time don't think she's unqualified for the office - not quite the same thing as saying she has their vote in 2012.  In a Palin v. Barry matchup, we'd be the 40% or less trying to convince the 60% or more that our candidate was even qualified for the office, much less who would do a better job.

Do I think she's qualified ?  Compared to Barry, yes, but that's a low bar indeed, and a cop-out too-often used by Palin's supporters on that issue.  She's not more qualified than either Romney or Perry in terms of experience.  Bachmann's on about the same experience level IMO.  But I'm already right-wing, and we know that the right will support her.  The question is will anyone else.

Palin supporters understandably avoid the 2/3 unfavorable gorilla in the room when discussing her campaign.  Ace has commented on some of the "3 Profit !" thinking on that score before so I won't rehash it.  Let's just say you need to "show me, don't tell me" how that's going to work before Il rethink my position.

She should support another candidate ther than fighting some quixotic struggle for vindication.  Beating Barry is important enough to sheathe the daggers on the right for one election.  If our 2012 candidate turns out to be a squish, fight that out in the 2014 mid-terms, and if they still don't get the message, primary them in 2016.

133 135
"She announces and it's all over for the GOP field."

I LOL'd

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 21, 2011 02:57 PM (kaOJx)

Remind me the last time Romney's bus was chased down the highway by the Press? Perry? Bachmann?

Sarah is crack to the MSM. Romney and Perry will need to buy a network to get some face time.

134 138: ....She should support another candidate RAther than fighting some quixotic struggle for vindication...

135

75 "taking her at her word, does she really think that neither Romney nor Perry are viable Conservative candidates?"

She very well may think that, and justifiably so, since both are fatally weak on  border security and illegal immigration, flaws Palin definitely does not share.

136 @Ace: thank you, and accepted.

For the record, as a Palin supporter, I think that poll is silly too. I never took issue with your dismissal of it.

137 You're sorry? Who do you think YOU are, Tony "We caused it" Bennett?

138

#97, #118   Palin became governor attacking Frank Murcowski for being part of a "corrupt" GOP establishment (see also Ted Stevens).  That establishment engaged in  legal but sleazy, back scratching, pay to play politics.  That faction survives and re-elected Lisa Madcowski.  

She has always been a populist conservative.  

Is not the TEA Party in part about clearing professional back scratching pols out? 

139 If ace doesn't quit jumping me, I am gonna bite him on his Perryhole

140

141.....She very well may think that, and justifiably so, since both are fatally weak on border security and illegal immigration, flaws Palin definitely does not share.

Oh really? Has Palin changed her position since the last time she actually answered a question about it? Her position has been similar to Perry's, except that Perry has called for troops to secure the border, and has actually been having to deal with it. ....See below:

Q: Should undocumented immigrants all should be deported?

A: There is no way that in the US we would roundup every illegal immigrant--there are about 12 million of the illegal immigrants--not only economically is that just an impossibility but that's not a humane way anyway to deal with the issue.

Q: Do you then favor an amnesty for the 12 million undocumented immigrants?

A: No, I do not. Not total amnesty. You know, people have got to follow the rules. We have got to make sure that there is equal opportunity and those who are here legally should be first in line for services being provided and those opportunities that this great country provides.

Q: So you support a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants?

A: I do because I understand why people would want to be in America. To seek the safety and prosperity, the opportunities, the health that is here. It is so important that yes, people follow the rules so that people can be treated equally and fairly in this country. Source: Univision Interview with Sarah Palin, by Jorge Ramos Oct 26, 2008    

141 The fact that so many of you morons are "annoyed" with Palin's strategy of waiting for the right time to announce - demonstrates a peculiar lack of political savvy on Ace's and many of you other moron's part. I say strange because often I read these posts and comments and find them insightful. But any supposedly astute political observer that doesn't understand that Palin is obviously running but holding out for the Perry bubble to burst, etc... well - isn't really very astute at all.

142 Palin announces and Solyndra, Fast and Furious etc. go away forever. Well, not like the media is covering them much, but still.

143 BTW - Who the hell do you think led our party to the HUGE 2010 victories? Was it Perry? Hell - I don't think I heard his name mentioned during the entire process. ~Think~ a minute about the last 3 years... Who was the voice in the wilderness defending our values and concerns? You sound like a bunch of ungrateful, impatient teenagers who wants to be there NOW. "Dad, are we there yet?" "Dad, are we there yet?" ...repeat... Palin's political instincts are uncanny. She's frankly a genius at this game. Watch her move - and grab hold if you want to come along... But STFU about how annoyed you are with Palin... please.

144 So the polls are the voice of God...right up until we start seeing Palin moving up in them. At which point we almost predictably hear the screeeeeeech as the goalposts get moved. Oh, no, they're not all the voice of God. Every once in a while we get an outlier and this is the one. How frickin' convenient.

145 Not a bad statistical inference, Ace. There's no need to rely on a single test when you have a collection of them available. If you roll a 6-sided die a bunch of times, and it almost always comes up 1, but then a roll comes up 6, you can still conclude that the die tends toward 1. The question is how useful past tests are--that is, whether they're still applicable today. So it seems that there's a locality preference (with regard to time). It's possible that the underlying conditions have changed, but large changes are less likely than smaller changes.

146

146

 

Oh yes, really. She has repeatedly rejected amnesty as in her July 10, 2010 “interview” with Ted Baxter:

 

“We wonÂ’t complicate it any more.  LetÂ’s keep it simple and letÂ’s say, ‘No, if you are here illegally and you donÂ’t follow the steps that at some point through immigration reform weÂ’re going to be able to provide, and that is to somehow allow you to work. If youÂ’re not going to do that, you will be deported you will be gone.”

 

She also pointed to ReaganÂ’s failed experiment with amnesty as how not to do it.

 

She has also repeatedly called for the President to do his job and secure the border, as in her wistfully titled Facebook article, “Mr. President, do your job. Secure our border.”

 

NROÂ’s Mark Krikorian reminds us of PerryÂ’s record in his August 29, 2011 Corner article titled "Perry: Pay No Attention to That Amnesty Supporter Behind the Curtain!":

 

* Perry supports amnesty for the illegal-alien population, wanting to relabel them “temporary” workers, while playing the same semantic game as other amnesty supporters in denying that his amnesty is an amnesty.

* Ten years ago he signed into law a measure offering taxpayer-funded in-state tuition subsidies for illegal aliens attending state universities (something he still supports).

* He opposes the use of E-Verify even in hiring for state agencies. When challenged last year in a gubernatorial debate, he replied “E-Verify would not make a hill of beans’ difference when it comes to what’s happening in America today.”

* He opposes fencing on the border, creating a false choice between fencing and personnel; as he said in his third inaugural speech: “We must secure the border with manpower, not unmanned walls.”

 

Krikorian comments further:

 

“None of this is to say Perry’s uniquely bad on immigration; he talks a good game about border enforcement and has supported tougher action against sanctuary cities and illegal-alien-hiring employers. But his immigration views put him in about the same place as Romney and Huntsman, all of whom have a Numbers USA grade of D-minus.”

 

I would certainly vote for Perry if he won the nomination, but the facts show that PerryÂ’s policies on these matters compare poorly to PalinÂ’s, making her my preferred candidate if she runs.

 

147 Palin is such a genius that O'Donnell became a punchline and Murkowski won despite not being on the ballot.

Palin is such a genius that she and the Tea Party have low popularity numbers.

Palin is such a genius that she gave Bachmann an excuse to hurt the party due to baseless accusations.

Palin is such a genius that not raising taxes is considered a victory when the Republicans want to cut government spending.


Palin is such a genius.  Nobody can see it, but if we could all just believe!

148 I almost wish that Palin would jump in just to see her disciples go insane when another candidate inevitably makes a "quitter" quip. 

But I rather win, you see.

149 Anony - If you think Rick Perry or Romney is equipped to battle a full throated MSM who'll walk over hot coals to get their guy elected - you just don't understand the contemporary world. When the MSM gets through with Perry (who I think is probably an honorable man) he'll be George Bush's evil twin in the minds of The People. That's the problem with you Dinosaur Republicans. You just don't understand modern culture. In fact you belittle it and treat pop culture like it doesn't matter... IT MATTERS! Palin is the only one who can tame that dragon. She already has. Wake up!

150 Ace, I am no longer surprised that you fall into irrationality where Palin is concerned; I am only surprised that this time you seemed to notice.

151

You can always tell the anti Palin types.  They the ones with Obama bumper stickers on their cars and the ones here telling us that they are good Republicans.

You can see how desperate they are getting lately.

 

152

The sad thing is that we're all on the same team.

However, if Palin's your candidate and you hang at Ace's, well, rotsa ruck.  Even in Ace's mea culpa thread, the vitriol flows like bulldog slobber. 

In the past year or so, some funny, genuine and smart commenters have left for whatever reasons they may have had.  I can see why.  It wears on you.

The usual suspects not only snark about Palin in posts where she's mentioned, but also when she's not!  The rabid ones don't stop there.  They take shots at 'rons and 'ettes.  These folks seriously detract from what was once a rollicking romp of a blog.  It's not worth the stress anymore.  SCOAMF makes life stressful enough. 

153 Well said Bone... There's a certain type that hangs out here, I'm learning - after first finding this blog remarkably witty and interesting. There's an old-boy mentality that I think is responsible for much of the Palin hate. Anti-female. Old school. Not exactly helpful in the coming election.

154 Disputing arguments made by Palin critics?  (On the Internet, criticism or skepticism is always interpreted as HATE!)  Nah.  They hate women or something.

And Molon is just a boring troll.  So many words to simply say, "NO, YOU!"

155

As Solyndra and LightSquared continue to mushroom on Obama, the MSM will ramp up a colonoscopy on Perry and the pay-to-play Texas cesspool, and will find lots of lumps to biopsy. The crony capitalism issue will be completely neutralized if Perry is the nominee; google "Perry pay-to-play", but put clothespins over your nose before you do.

The issue is perfect for Palin, however; google "Palin pay-to-play" and all you find is numerous links to her campaign to clean out corrupt Alaska politics, including sending some of her own party to prison and continued attacks on "crony capitalism" as recently as her Iowa speech (correctly interpreted by many as including sly digs at Perry's crony capitalism warts) and last night's Hannity appearance.

The bigger the Obama pay-to-play scandals, the more indignant the American public becomes, and the more the voters will turn away from Obama and Perry and toward the one person who has a credible record of fighting crony capitalism, and about whom there has been absolutely no charges or innuendos, credible or otherwise, about anyone buying Palin's vote. Palin's not for sale; Perry and Obama clearly are.

Yeah, I'm a Palinista. If she doesn't get in, I'll decide at that time who to vote for in the primary. No question I'll vote for whoever the GOP nominee is in the general, but if it is Perry or Romney I'll have to hold my nose, and my $ support will be confined to House and Senate races. We deserve a better choice, and I believe that in a few weeks, we'll have one.

156 Sarah's pipeline ring a bell?  Oh, that doesn't count as cronyism because [next string of talking points.]

157 @ #163

"Palin's not for sale..."  sure

"Bhopal Coale" bought Palin...paid for her SuperPac & negotiated her publishing contracts and the contract with FOX (Yeah Greta's hubby) and her bus tour. Google that and you'll find an apolitical legal trial hound sleezeball wrapped up with the Clintons and John Edwards and the DNC.

Same guy who recently announced he'll go to great lengths to take out Perry because of Tort Reform in Texas.

158 "stupid of me to do that"

Yes it was.  Your getting as bad as Joe McGinniss