1 Recomendation enuf for me

2 If 'Stache and Tom Sowell agree, I gotta go along.  Sorry Rush.

3 I must've missed the history lesson where Washington retreated for 80 years.

4 I am just looking for a soft spot to land once the crash happens. All this re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic is just making me tired.

5 Whendo we primary this Sowell guy?

6 I knew New York wasn't worth protecting even back then.

7 Sowell?  RI--- eh, you know.

8 I still don't see what we are getting out of this.

9

That sort of thing can only really happen if we're willing to shut the government down, and we're plainly not.

I'm not speaking now in terms of "should." Like I'm not saying we should not be willing to shut it down.

I'm speaking in simple terms of factual observation -- we will not shut it down, so we cannot actually force that better deal on anyone.

 

In other words, the politicians who are in power now because of the TEA movement have punched the TEA movement in the kidneys and pissed on it, and therefore the TEA movement should support what they are doing instead of respecting the will of those who put them in power.

I'm not exactly sure how this advances our cause.

10 Deck chairs should be moved a little to the left.

kthxbai

11 >>I'm not speaking now in terms of "should." Like I'm not saying we should not be willing to shut it down. >> I'm speaking in simple terms of factual observation -- we will not shut it down, so we cannot actually force that better deal on anyone. Huh? This makes no sense. Are you saying the fact that we lose big time in the public's eyes is the reason we can't get a better deal now? Or are you saying that we would win something by shutting the Federal gov down?

12 If Sowell goes for it then good enough.

13 Thomas Sowell, God bless the man, is not a political tactician.

14

 I still don't see what we are getting out of this.

Nothing.  Put in American Revolutionary terms, this isn't a tactical retreat.  This is collecting the Tea tax for the British.

15 The House should pass this, and, after the Senate votes it down, recess until Reid changes his mind.

16 IMO, we kinda need to look at this as a holding action, where we fix the enemy in place while we bring up reserves, or flank the libs in 2012, when we capture the Senate and the Presidency. But we have to elect people who will be willing to risk their seats to make the cuts required, including entire Federal departments. In addition, we have to make those cuts soon enough after the new president is sworn-in in 2013 so that the beneficial effects of the cuts will be apparent to the voters by the 2014 Congressional elections, so that even if some Republicans are voted out, we can keep the work of 2013 from being undone.

17

No, no, no.  There is a far far better deal to be had: DO NOT RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT

And it requires zero votes to pass.

18 Remember, this is the high water mark.

Let's see what gets tossed over the side to gain Royal Assent, er, I mean Obama's signature.

19 No matter what, this ten-year plan gets torn up in 2012, right?

20 18 The House should pass this, and, after the Senate votes it down, recess until Reid changes his mind.
That's what we said about CCB, isn't it

21 3 If 'Stache and Tom Sowell agree, I gotta go along.  Sorry Rush.

I haven't been listening to much of Rush lately but today I caught the bit where he was hoisted on his own "Ruling Class" petard by a caller.

I miss the old Rush who could see the forest for the trees, but for at least the last year the last sign of that ability he's demonstrated has been his commitment against third parties.  He's been listening to his buddy Mark Levin way too much.

22 If we're just going to accept this, then let's at least admit the truth. America lies defeated. The socialists of both parties have won the argument. What we have chosen is a mediocre lie for a little season followed by total collapse which will gut the whole of western civilization. So congratulations to Gabe and Obama, Reid and Boehner. You have achieved your nihilistic dream.

23

Nothing.  Put in American Revolutionary terms, this isn't a tactical retreat.  This is collecting the Tea tax for the British.

ding ding ding

winer winner chicken dinner

24 Of course, nobody is mentioning the 800lb gorilla in the room that really increases the danger for the country - that the media must find a way to let Obama look like he won.

25 Still need to prioritize spending

26 These people who say it is not a bad deal, do they own property on islands beyond the reach of the fiscal zombie apocalypse?

27 If Sowell says it, that's good enough for me.

Next thread.

28 hadn't Obama said He would veto it anyway?

29 So... should we now try to get pot legalization on the ballot in all 50 states?  We're gonna need something better than booze

30 Not sold. The point is the Republicans hardly even tried to force the Dems' hand, they gave up before the fight even got started.

31 http://www.econlib.org/library/EconTalk.xml (post url to itunes... Advanced/Subscribe to Podcast) If you want to understand the basics of this process.......listen to "Econ Talk" podcast w/ Keith Hennessy very informative.......... also see post at 'JustOneMinute' blog.

32

If true, then explain why such Tea Party stalwarts like West are favoring the Boehner plan? If the Tea Party caucus was still digging in and saying no to Boehner, I would buy it. But they aren't.

West is no movement conservative because he's no fiscal conservative.   He's the rght of center Obama.  He was also on board for Pigford.

33

The goddamned TEA people went to congress to prevent this kind of socialist collusion.

We're goddamned fucked.

34 I repeat I am so sick of this shit. Default if you want, but do it today and get it over with.

35 >>>Huh? This makes no sense. Are you saying the fact that we lose big time in the public's eyes is the reason we can't get a better deal now? Or are you saying that we would win something by shutting the Federal gov down? I'm shocked that you're incapable of understanding a simple statement.

36 They passed the Boehner Plan. How much more support are we supposed to give it?

I'm not going to go Aztec and sacrifice a virgin to the damn thing.

37

One thing, this idea that we're going to get more later: We're not, and we shouldn't talk about false hopes.

This. 

Just because we've talked them into leaving the sand out of the lube doesn't mean we are not going to be dorked in the squeakhole.

38 I'm not going to go Aztec and sacrifice a virgin to the damn thing. Posted by: sifty is basking in rick perry's glow at July 28, 2011 03:09 PM (ECjvn) Yeah like you could find a virgin now a days?

39 >>>Huh? This makes no sense. Are you saying the fact that we lose big time in the public's eyes is the reason we can't get a better deal now? Or are you saying that we would win something by shutting the Federal gov down? Perhaps you'd like some fantasy? Okay: We obviously are very willing to shut the govenment down (oviously, we've done so twice now in the past six months) and therefore we can win it all by doing so a third time.

40 30 If Sowell says it, that's good enough for me.

Bingo.

At some point the ability to demonize everyone who supports this plan (and the idea of waging a long war in general) as a statist RINO just collapses under its own absurdity.

41 No matter what, this ten-year plan gets torn up in 2012, right?

That is a good point.  Why even have a 10 year deal?  Barry's a one-termer and the composition of the legislature is bound to be completely different in 18 months.  If the Republicans were not going to actually use the debt ceiling as a club to repeal OCare or beat 800B out of the next budget, they should have just quietly done a clean increase of 750B and spared us all the drama and bad PR, and taken it up next year.

42 Should and will again. Crossing the beams. Not going to be pretty. Stand back.

43 Don't pass TARP? DOOM!

Don't pass Stimulus? DOOM!

Don't pass the Omnibus Spending Bill to keep the government running? DOOM!

Don't bail out GM & Chrysler? DOOM!

Don't raise the Debt Ceiling? DOOM!

44 Oh, and it should also be said that now that both parties insisted on giving Obama a blank check despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans were against the debt limit increase going into this discussion, we are now being taxed without representation. That used to mean something.

45 Sold. I'd rather screw a butt-ugly woman than get screwed by a dude. But you didn't hear that from me.

46 Then it's as I'd feared.  The only sane course of action is preparing for collapse, and making ready we're the ones who set the model for rebuilding.

This will be ugly.  Alas, I see no acceptable alternative.

47 Uh, what I don't get is how the Boehner plan diverges materially from just raising the debt ceiling.  1 trillion out of, what 15 trillion is that big a deal?

48
You can't look at this as if it's written in stone. It's not like we'll be stuck with this for the next 10 years -- things change; the balance of power will shift.

No it won't really do a damned thing. But instead of looking at it as a viable solution to our crisis, look at in terms of a political battle. Passage of this bill makes us stronger and makes the Democrats weaker.

We can win this battle and emerge stronger. Then use that strength in the next battle or the next election. By 2012 we're in control and then we can make changes.

49 Even Thomas Sowell can be wrong, Ace.  Don't let the fact that he's great blind you to the fact he's human.

This might have been a good compromise had it been come to in the normal way, but- because of the incompetence of the Crier of the House, it's now our Starting position in the negotiations: and that makes it unacceptable.  Period.

The Democrats have been using the time honored negotiating tactic of "say nothing."  It works like this:

Say I go to a used car lot, and I'm looking at a car.  The sales guy comes out and starts trying to sell me the car.  I smile and nod, but don't say anything.  He will, eventually, start falling all over himself to "sweeten the deal."  Then, once I begin talking (starting far lower than his most recent offer) we'll work further down than that.

Well, the correct thing for the sales guy to do (though most of them can't do it- the hazards of working for commission) is to make his opening bid, and then say, "I'll be right over there if you have any questions." and walk off.

Well, Boehner should have passed CC&B (which, yes, we knew was DOA, but it was our opening position for a good reason) and then said, "Now, when you have a counter proposal, we'll talk.  But you have to actually pass a counter proposal."

50 Posted by: Doomsday Machine at July 28, 2011 03:11 PM

It's miles long, with a maw that could swallow a dozen debt hikes!

51 Here's the thing: People are stupid! Polls still show that they blame Republicans, including TEA Partiers, more than Obama. There is simply not enough time to educate voters enough to get them to pressure Obama and the Dems to go with a Republican plan. Lurching from crisis to crisis is no way to govern. Passing the Boehner plan removes this crisis from the table and gives Republicans a window to build support on a congressional district by district and state by state basis. Not passing anything and potentially going into default (after a period of a few weeks) will only allow the Dems and Obama, and the compliant press, to place the blames on Republicans.

52 Solid no votes stand at 21. Boehner can only lose 4 more.

53

Yeah like you could find a virgin now a days?

Should have done it last week when you could have gone to Comic-Con and there they all were nice and herded up foryou.

54 Doomsday, are you saying we are fiscally sound?

55 54 Posted by: Doomsday Machine at July 28, 2011 03:11 PM

It's miles long, with a maw that could swallow a dozen debt hikes! Posted by: Commodore Matt Decker at July 28, 2011 03:14 PM

Sensors show the object's hull is solid debtronium. A single bill cannot combat it.

56 Dems have sworn to ignore the Boehner vote.
Obama has sworn to veto it.

Is our "support" going to change that?

Should I be lighting a candle or chanting for the Boehner Plan?
Will an internet comments section force action on this?

57 it won't make it past the senate so go for it. just keep passing stuff that gives the dems what they want and hardly a thing we want and let them shoot it down for no apparent reason.

independent voters will catch on and that's what matters.

58

The most basic fact of life is that we can make our choices only among the alternatives actually available. It is not idealism to ignore the limits of one's power. Nor is it selling out one's principles to recognize those limits at a given time and place, and get the best deal possible under those conditions.

Only a vile, despicable RINO! would write such blasphemy! 

We're still boned, just a little less boned than before. 

Doesn't matter because in the end, there will be only chaos anyway.

59

We wouldn't be shutting anything down.  Obama would.  And he'd own it.

Boehner is saving Obama from himself with this deal.  To cite the Ace Rules of Negotiation, Obama successfully convinced everyone he is crazy enough to do this.  We just got rolled.  Again.

Very frustrating that the necessity of a debt ceiling increase is being treated as a fait accompli.

60 Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at July 28, 2011 03:15 PM (OWjjx)

Yeah... I'm not sure about the need to call everyone who has come on board with the latest plan "not conservative enough" or whatever.  They're not too liberal- they're just wrong on this issue.  And they're wrong tactically more than they are substantively.

61 Oh, and *sarc* for anybody who didn't get the tone of my last comment.

62

I'm speaking in simple terms of factual observation -- we will not shut it down, so we cannot actually force that better deal on anyone.

Then nothing will ever change. You will only get a better deal from the other side when they know that you're willing to walk away.  At some point Boner has to say enough is enough and walk away and let the chips fall where they may, but right now the Democrats know that if they keep saying "No" then Boner and the spineless establishment Republicans will keep moving towards them.

If the House is going to pass this piece of crap then it needs to be the final offer. Pass it and then walk away and tell the public that you're going to wait for an actual counteroffer as opposed to "No." The Democrats will continue to roll you until you show them that it won't work anymore.

63

In the final analysis the Boehner plan serves only one purpose and that is to weaken Sparky and his bootlickers. Its the first salvos fired in a battle to storm the castle. Win this one and the next one will be much easier. It always amazes me how conservative liberals get as they approach an election. Works every time. Don't let the bastards extend the ceiling through 2013, make them defend each and every rat hole of their big Gummint Cheese fortress.

64 Boehner doesn't have the votes in the Senate. Obama said in that pathetic speech that we can't default. I actually think the Constitutional Adjunct is going to take Clyburn's advice on this and consider drastic measures that involve imaginary Constitutional power. 

Polling is not his friend on this issue. I say let him try. He will be persona non grata forever.

65

Just because we've talked them into leaving the sand out of the lube doesn't mean we are not going to be dorked in the squeakhole.

 

I hate it when Michelle leaves out the sand.

66

Call the Democrats Bluff.....Who cares if Republicans take blame for whatever....they are going to take the blame no matter what....

Quit acting like you're all so important, that we should actually care if you're gonna feel pain because of an economic collapse...I Don't!

It would be the best thing that could happend for the future of your kids and grandkids....quit being so selfish! 

67 20 No, no, no.  There is a far far better deal to be had: DO NOT RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT

And it requires zero votes to pass.

Though we have a problem. It's one that can be solved, but is there political resolve from anyone in D.C. to actually follow-through on this?

Another thing that gets getting lost in all this is that every House Republican except Ron Paul  has already voted to raise the debt ceiling.

68

Kirk: Matt, where is your CCB?
Decker: On the Third Vote
Kirk? There is no third vote !!!!
Decker: Don't you think I know that? There was! But not anymore! They called me... they begged me for help... four hundred of them... I couldn't... I... I couldn't

69 66 Oh, and *sarc* for anybody who didn't get the tone of my last comment.

Sarcasm?

HERE?

70
If the Republicans stick together and pass that bill I think Obama/Reid will rethink their opposition.

Reid and Obama are hoping for Republicans to implode. Their tough talk might change once the bill passes. And if a couple of Democrats in the House break party lines, then Reid will start sweating.

71 51 Uh, what I don't get is how the Boehner plan diverges materially from just raising the debt ceiling. 

Posted by: ParisParamus at July 28, 2011 03:13 PM (cdCC7)

It creates a commission that can raise taxes. That's what we elected the GOP for, right?

72 Certainly better to let the Democrats kill any chance at raising the debt ceiling than having Republicans take the fall.

73 Just because we've talked them into leaving the sand out of the lube doesn't mean we are not going to be dorked in the squeakhole.<<< Hold my hand, alexthechick. I'm scared.

74 Squeakhole = (0)

75 >>I'm shocked that you're incapable of understanding a simple statement. Posted by: ace Ace, read this sentence again: >> Like I'm not saying we should not be willing to shut it down. Do you think that scans? Why the double negative construction? "I'm saying we should be willing to shut the government down." - That's not what you meant, right? Hard to tell one way or another.

76

Better question...there is a hangup over what is the right thing to do politically.  But that's not what needs to be at play here.  The real issue is what's the right thing to do economically, and neither increasing the debt limit or pushing for phantom out year cuts are it.  I mean, for context...assuming all of the out year cuts are held to, we're still talking about the federal government increasing spending by $8 trillion over ten years, not $9 trillion.  Is that a recipe for health?

CCB passed the House.  It didn't pass the Senate by, what, five votes?  Work on those five Senators instead of passing a weaker Reid bill that gives Obama exactly what he wants anyway.  And for all the teeth gnashing about how we only hold the House, so what?  The House has the power here.  It makes no sense to surrender it if you don't have to, and here we don't have to.

77 But instead of looking at it as a viable solution to our crisis, look at in terms of a political battle. Passage of this bill makes us stronger and makes the Democrats weaker.

You have all my respect for your cogent posts, but I want to hear you say that when Reid guts and borgs what Boehner's about to pass to him, kicks it back to the House and dares the Republicans not to sign it. Repubs sign it = Repubs DOA next election. Repubs DON'T sign it = Repubs hammered 24/7 until election time for "not compromising." Obama STILL remains above it all; Obama wins.

78 CNBC saying "why are they playing this game of chicken".

seriously people have had enough of the BS, they have stopped paying attention. 

If you listen to hannity's opening you realize the republicans are at fault for all of this.  If they had a set they would actually do something.  I know you have all your political reasons why they don't but regular people are starting to view them as a total bunch of posers just like the dems. 

Essentially the republicans are the enablers to the drug addict.

79 23 18 That's what we said about CCB, isn't it?

It's easier to make the Senate Dems look bad when you have them on-record voting against more minor cuts than the Ryan budget and discretionary spending caps. What's more, the spending cuts in the Boehner bill are things that the Dems previously said they could cut. So the Rs could actually win this one much more easily-- if they try. But that's all dependent on if they try.

80

Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 28, 2011 03:21 PM (lbo6/)

Great pickup line.  Mind if I use it?

81 Nothing.  Put in American Revolutionary terms, this isn't a tactical retreat.  This is collecting the Tea tax for the British.

Are you fucking kidding me? It's a 6 month 'retreat' so that the battleground is on favorable terms: where the GOP can coalesce around a single spokesman (or woman) who can then go one-on-one with President Obama in front of the nation directly. As a bonus we get some immediate reduction in government spending.

Stop being an impulsive retard clamoring for immediate gratification like a spoiled hippy stoner for a second and take stock of the situation:

+ We have a winning message / issue (debt | size of government)

- We currently have two problems: (1) the media is a biased intermediary that filters the message. (2) the Congress (House) is intrinsically unable to keep up with a President's influence.


By moving this debate to the fall, we minimize or eliminate the negatives and allow a single individual to articulate an economic policy.... choose wisely.

82 I'm speaking in simple terms of factual observation -- we will not shut it down, so we cannot actually force that better deal on anyone.

So everything we have done from Nov '08 to now has been a complete waste of time then? Because despite a conservative movement of epic proportions we cannot get politicians that have the will to change the trajectory of our nation beyond moving the location of the plane wreck 10 feet closer to the runway 100 miles distant?

Help me out here because that statement takes a lot of wind out of my sails. What's the plan HQ leader? Just bank on Nov '12 and hope that we can limp far enough to make it to '13? That's the best we got? Hope that we can hold it together for 2 more years, when 6 months looks sketchy?

83 65 Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at July 28, 2011 03:15 PM (OWjjx)

Yeah... I'm not sure about the need to call everyone who has come on board with the latest plan "not conservative enough" or whatever. They're not too liberal- they're just wrong on this issue. And they're wrong tactically more than they are substantively.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 28, 2011 03:17 PM (KxyHe)

I don't agree.  I think its the right tactical move.    You hold firm on the debt limit increase that will make Obama ask for another increase again before the election.  He's going to go through this money so fast it will be like Sam Kinison with a pile of cocaine.  Republicans will have the point of talking about passing a shitty deal for them and the country that the democrats wanted to be even worse.  And its not likely that anything will have improved when Obama will need to ask for another debt increase so they can go "we gave you an increase before and things haven't improved, so we should give you another one so things can continue to not improve?"

84 ummmm... why do we keep talking about this bill? It's not going to pass, and it's not going to become law.

85
"Get a better deal later" to me means cut the government in half in 2013.

86

I'm not speaking now in terms of "should." Like I'm not saying we should not be willing to shut it down.

 

Covering all the bases, I see.

87 Just bank on Nov '12 and hope that we can limp far enough to make it to '13?

Not sure if you noticed, but we don't control the Senate or the Presidency.

88 By the way, it bears mentioning again - Boehner's wonderful 'half a loaf' plan is as dead as CCB.

So we'll be up for another round of brow-beating for the 'quarter loaf' plan which Boehner will float.  The sad thing is people here will convince themselves that this is all for the best, that the 'real battle' is 2013 because electoral victory is somehow guaranteed.

89 With due respect to Thomas Sowell, his analogy really only works if say the British were burning and pillaging the colonies while Washington retreated.

90 the sad part is that it didn't have to be this way, and it wouldn't have if boehner would have stood behind CC&B. But as soon as it passed he threw it under the bus. It was only a charade.

91

Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 28, 2011 03:21 PM (lbo6/)

 

In a pinch, Gojo makes a good lube.

92 I should add, he's otherwise thoughtful but that analogy doesn't work and is out of context.

93

The sad thing is people here will convince themselves that this is all for the best, that the 'real battle' is 2013 because electoral victory is somehow guaranteed.

Not guaranteed, but looking pretty damn good right about now.

94 Many of you miss how far we've dragged the Overton window. Democrats have conceded no "clean" vote on the debt ceiling. No tax increases. That cuts must at least equal the raise. We've offered at least 3 very different plans (Ryan, CCB, Boehner) (well also the McConnell plan, meh) and all the Democrats can say is "no" while offering no plan until Reid finally cobbled something together just recently. We are winning. Democrats are in the process of deluding themselves that they will get some kind of political windfall from this. Like they did with Obamacare. It is sad that this bill is probably the best we can do, but if we do not raise the debt ceiling, Republicans and the economy will be hurt. Unless it's because the Democrats say no. Make them say no and let them be responsible for what follows.

95
Posted by: Reno_Dave at July 28, 2011 03:06 PM

DING DING DING DING DING

96 59 So, now Alan West is a........what? Quasi-RINO? Not a movement conservative?

Wow, I guess you and I have not been reading the same blog for awhile. 

Even John Campbell is going to vote for this, the same John Campbell who has no qualms of voting against something for not going far enough.

97 85 CNBC saying "why are they playing this game of chicken".

seriously people have had enough of the BS, they have stopped paying attention.

If you listen to hannity's opening you realize the republicans are at fault for all of this. If they had a set they would actually do something. I know you have all your political reasons why they don't but regular people are starting to view them as a total bunch of posers just like the dems.

Essentially the republicans are the enablers to the drug addict.

Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 03:24 PM (k1rwm)

What a load of horseshit you lying little troll.

98 85 CNBC saying "why are they playing this game of chicken".

seriously people have had enough of the BS, they have stopped paying attention. 

Posted by: curious at July 28, 2011 03:24 PM

Yes, because Bubblevision is the VOICE OF THE PEOPLE!

Power to the Players!

99 Yeah, if the Sowell man likes it, that's reassuring.

100 Sorry. Sowell is a brilliant man, but this is absolute bullshit.

When your choices are flat-out, in-your-face death and a soothing-words, sugar-coated kind of death, it's still death, and I ain't buyin' it.

I don't give a shit about the politics of it, what the pundits think the possibilities are or why we should all be good little slaves and let the felons in D.C. continue to rob us blind as long as they murmur soft words.

At this point, I'd have more respect for the commentator who advocates uprising against the tyranny of those who have declared themselves royalty.

But that's not gonna happen. The United States's future lifespan can be measured in years now, so we might as well all sit back and enjoy "Poppin' Fresh's" take on the polls that show that the man who destroyed America and his co-conspirators are not as popular as enemas.

Ace and all the Political Thinkers here will think I'm being overdramatic, I'm sure. Wish they were correct. I'm almost positive they aren't.

101 I missed the part where Dr. Sowell explains that a bill that will not be passed is our best option. But then again, my inseam is 30 while my sleeve length is 52.

102 This is the biggest crock of shit. What a phony "debate". All this talk about trillions in reduced spending is bullshit. It will never happen. We are arguing over a few billion in cuts in the next year or so. Even those "cuts" will be reduced. The fix has been in from the beginning. There will be a raise in the debt ceiling and it will be "offset" by cuts that will never happen. The House will vote the bill out and the Senate will vote to table it. Then Reed's plan will pass the Senate and the Dems and some Repubs will pass it. They may as well have passed a clean bill months ago. Everybody gets what they want. The Tea Party gets to pound it's chest. The Dems get to keep spending and the Repubs get to hang the spending and economy on Obama. And Obama gets to claim a huge victory for standing up to the extremes. Everybody is happy. It was always going to be like this.

103 his analogy really only works if say the British were burning and pillaging the colonies while Washington retreated.

Well, they did burn down the capitol in 1812 over that messy York incident.  The Tea Party yanks stopped them and made a really cool song.

104
He was also on board for Pigford.

Posted by: Truman North at July 28, 2011 03:09 PM

He changed his stance on Pigford, said he wasn't fully informed. Yeah, not too brilliant forming an opinion and THEN getting the facts, but at least once he got them he changed.

105

In a pinch, Gojo makes a good lube.

Posted by: Barack H Obama at July 28, 2011 03:27 PM (3wVv2)

I wondered what Michelle was using on you. 

You don't get the pained look you've been having at pressers lately when you're using Astroglide.

Does she just tell you to "assume the position" or does she just go all ghetto and tell you to "bend over, boyfriend"?

106 Just a hunch, but I'm pretty sure Boehner isn't familiar with the OODA loop

107
I suppose Reid can screw with it -- or reject it. But is it a gamble he can afford to take?

Carney said there will be no default. That means either two things. Either he admitted the default scare is bunk or he admitted Obama/Reid is bluffing and they will indeed act when time runs out.

We'll find out soon either way. And no matter which it is, Obama and Reid look bad.

108 The Boehner plan blows, lets just get that out of the way but lets say it is tolerable or even pretty decent. There is something that it is not.........................................It is not the "final" plan.Reid is going to send it back with other stuff attached to it and stuff they will demand to be taken out. And then, when he gets exactly what he wants, they are going to take all of the credit for all of the hard work they did in finding common ground. By the time it actually passes, what started out looking like JB as a hard nosed negotiator with a pecker the size of a wild stallions only to find out he is really a schooled kid, holding his tiny Vienna sausage in one hand and a moist hanky in the other.

109 the sad part is that it didn't have to be this way, and it wouldn't have if boehner would have stood behind CC&B. But as soon as it passed he threw it under the bus. It has been a charade.

Yup.

110

"Unless it's because the Democrats say no. Make them say no and let them be responsible for what follows."

Yes...I agree! These poeple have been weaseling out of responsiblity for anything since the 1960's. About time Americans get a clue!

111
No matter what, this ten-year plan gets torn up in 2012, right?

Posted by: t-bird at July 28, 2011 03:06 PM

2013, but that's what I'm countin' on.

112 The sad thing is people here will convince themselves that this is all for the best, that the 'real battle' is 2013 because electoral victory is somehow guaranteed.

Look at it this way. If we don't win in 2012, this battle will have meant nothing.

113

The Obama controlled leftwing progs in the Senate have stated out-right that they will not vote for it.

It's the best we can do and the democrats STILL won't go for it. Unless it licks the balls of his majesty the king, raises job killing taxes, and spends our grandkids money on goivernment waste, and swirls the nation further down the road to Greece - the dems won't go for it. Oh - and the mindless leftists in the senate want their king re-elected.

114 $14 trillion CANNOT and will NEVER be paid back. If Don Corleone held this marker, people would die. 

115 Are you fucking kidding me? It's a 6 month 'retreat' so that the battleground is on favorable terms: where the GOP can coalesce around a single spokesman (or woman) who can then go one-on-one with President Obama in front of the nation directly. As a bonus we get some immediate reduction in government spending.

Hey Bismarck, your political calculator is off.  In 6 months we won't have a frontrunner yet.  It'll be the New Hampshire primary.

Stop being an impulsive retard clamoring for immediate gratification like a spoiled hippy stoner for a second and take stock of the situation:

Which situation, the one where we are spending money that doesn't exist or the one where Boehner's plan is going to be rejected by Barry and Reid?

116  ummmm... why do we keep talking about this bill? It's not going to pass, and it's not going to become law.

Posted by: cherry ð at July 28, 2011 03:25 PM (OhYCU)

 

This.  What Dick and Harry really want and are willing to veto everything that comes from the House until they get it, are tax increases. 

And just as an addendum, do we actually think that the dems are going to pass anything the repubs send up?  They want to be the cavalry coming to the rescue.  Only a dem written bill (if they ever get around to it) will pass the senate.

117 Posted by: buzzion at July 28, 2011 03:25 PM (oVQFe)

I think the tactics that lead to this being our best current bet were terrible.  The very fact that this is on the table- as originating in the house, not from a conference committee trying to reconcile two different bills- is the bad tactical move.

Boehner should have said, "We've passed a responsible plan that cuts current spending and planned 2012 spending, caps future spending, and provides for a full balanced budget amendment.  We understand that the President and the Senate disagree with this bill- that's why the legislative process works the way it does.  It is now time for Harry Reid and the Senate to pass a bill, which can be scored by the CBO.  When that is done, we will certainly review the bill, and then either pass it or amend it, as we feel appropriate.  Until the Senate has acted, one way or another, on our bill, we are moving on to other matters."

Because he didn't do that, he's already given away a great deal of what we wanted, so now he doesn't have it to give away when we get to the House/Senate conference over whatever bill does pass.

118 113 Just a hunch, but I'm pretty sure Boehner isn't familiar with the OODA loop

Posted by: kbdabear at July 28, 2011 03:30 PM

Bullshit! I saw them just the other night on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

119

Just a hunch, but I'm pretty sure Boehner isn't familiar with the OODA loop

He's clearly not.  That's the bad news.

The good news is that the Dems are even more reactive than he is. 

120 I've become so jaded and cynical, I feel like throwing in the towel for a while.  Idiot voters chose this: well, let them get it good and hard.

The economic damage the Democrats have done so far is just the beginning.  I expect our debt to end up much higher than it currently is before all is said and done, no matter how hard we fight, and it might take us more than a decade to recover from it.

121 In a pinch, Gojo makes a good lube.

Please don't use the type with Pumice next time though.

122 How does it make the Democrats look to reject a bill that "cuts" a "trillion" with no tax hikes?

Answer:Not good.

This is the message every Republican needs to be repeating for the next few days.

123

Does she just tell you to "assume the position"

 

Nah, I fetch the First Strap-On like a Golden Retriever fetches the leash. 

If I'm a good boy, she lets me smell her glove.

124

We're not, and we shouldn't talk about false hopes.

Save that for the presidential threads.

125 This isn't going to be done by a law being signed.  It's going to be done by executive order.  McConnell saw this early on in the process and didn't want any part of it.

126 10 I still don't see what we are getting out of this.

Posted by: toby928™ at July 28, 2011 03:03 PM (GTbGH)

We're getting a promise that maybe later some cuts will happen.  So apparently we'll get nothing and like it.

127 I disagree that this is the best we can get, because we aren't going to get even this, once negotiations occur.

The Republicans better understand that they had BETTER make good on 2012 since they keep telling us that is the prize. If the prize is won, then we expect major changes - no compromise, no quarter, no return to Bushism or same-old-same-old business-as-usual.

128

It is not the "final" plan.Reid is going to send it back with other stuff attached to it and stuff they will demand to be taken out.
And then, when he gets exactly what he wants, they are going to take all of the credit for all of the hard work they did in finding common ground.

Yup. It will get tabled in the Senate, the Senate will pass Reid's plan, probably with a few RINO votes (it won't be filibustered because of the political "optics") and it will go back to the House.

If the House tables it or votes it down, "REPUBLICAN OBSTRUCTIONISM!!!!"

If the House passes it, "OBAMA SAVES THE DAY!!!"

129

Hold my hand, alexthechick. I'm scared.

Now, now, don't be scared.  It's only going to hurt a whole really lot. 

I think I'm going to need to reconsider my stance on illegal substances to get through the next year or so.

130 In 6 months we won't have a frontrunner yet.

hmmm... unless we have one on the night of Sep 3rd

131 Though we have a problem. It's one that can be solved, but is there political resolve from anyone in D.C. to actually follow-through on this?

This.  We can play Fantasy Fiduciary all day long, proposing to stop paying for food stamps, veterans benefits- but anyone who thinks that the GOP comes out ahead on that deal is fooling themselves.

If the cuts they're talking about look like small potatoes, it's because they are.  Yes, there's room for discretionary cuts, but without significant (and politically dangerous) cuts in entitlement spending we're never going to see our debt paid down.

A 20% cut in non-defense discretionary spending (which the Dems would never go for) would reduce overall spending by only around 3%.  When we're borrowing over $.40 of every dollar spent, a 3% spending cut still leaves us boned.

132

Posted by: Barack Obama at July 28, 2011 03:34 PM (3wVv2)

You know, I'm willing to bet that's the actual reality at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW.

133 Suppose, instead of passing ANY bill, we do nothing ... what then?

There's no ceiling increase, at least nothing approved, no tax increases, at least none approved ...

... and the blame for the downgrade/collapse/End-Of-The-World-As-We-Know-it/etc.if such things happen, belongs to the non-performers, the obstructionists ... Dingy Harry Reid and his 53, and JEF teh Won, their Dear Leader.

Perhaps JEF and Reid are simply waiting to see a bill passed, so they can reject it, and try to force their desires upon us ... apparently, all 53 D Senators signed Reid's "No" letter ... but they're scared.

This is mainly a test of wills. Do the Republicans have the will to stop the spending?

The Democrats will eventually fold, as none will be re-elected in 2012 if the downgrade/collapse/End-Of-The-World-As-We-Know-it really happens.

134

It's a little unclear who the author of this excerpt I stole from the Corner is, but I think it is the K Hammer.  What he predicts:

 

 "I see this letter and the threats coming from [Charles] Schumer and from [Harry] Reid as bravado. TheyÂ’re really worried. They were hoping yesterday that the Republicans in the House would implode — they would be suicidal, kill the Boehner plan, and be left with no initiative and be the ones who would take the blame.

Instead it looks as if thereÂ’s every indication now that the House Republicans are going to get together on this. TheyÂ’re going to squeak by, get the required majority, and pass the Boehner plan. That will put the spotlight on the Democrats in the Senate. Then theyÂ’re now on the defensive if that happens. The Republicans will seize the initiative. The blame is now shifted entirely onto the Democrats.

TheyÂ’re trying to scare the Republicans away with a letter saying it [the Boehner plan] is dead on arrival. Well, itÂ’s not going to be dead on arrival. What Reid will have to do is to add a curlicue or two, some kind of amendment, something on it [the Boehner plan] so he can at least say itÂ’s an amalgam, itÂ’s a compromise between the Reid plan and the Boehner plan, which would allow the DemocratsÂ… who are going to be up for reelection next year [an out].

The president, who has issued what I think is a phony veto threat — I’m sure that if it reaches him there’s no way he’ll be able to actually do that.

So that will be the protection. The president will say, ‘Well, there was a compromise, it wasn’t the Boehner plan, therefore I can sign it.’"

135 132 This isn't going to be done by a law being signed.  It's going to be done by executive order.  McConnell saw this early on in the process and didn't want any part of it.

Not involved? The same McConnell who is now talking to Joe Biden?

136 Gentlemen, here are our choices.

Do you want to be gang banged from the front? Or from the back?

137

One thing, this idea that we're going to get more later: We're not, and we shouldn't talk about false hopes.

---------

This sentence itself contains a false hope. The idea that we're getting something now. What part of Reid's "we will not vote for this" are people missing. It's like the Senate voting this down is suddenly a hard concept to grasp.

But hey, all aboard a crappy plan that is going to fail in the Senate regardless. I'm not sure why, but here we go.

138 If it's all going to come crashing down why not have it on Reid's no vote or Obama's veto?

139 I guess this a shit sandwich I can eat.  Reluctantly through.... 

140 The betting pool is now open. Can we get someone in Vegas to offer odds on the remaining lifespan of the country? The country is fucked so bad that you could drop a thousand bucks against 1000 to 1 odds, and by the time the Fed and TIMMAY are done with it, you'll be able to buy a Coke. If they are still making it.

141 I was always of the opinion that we should have taken McConnell's plan and run with it. We would be in a lot better political and financial position (we likely would have avoided the downgrade inevitability talk) than we are now and are going to be. Hysterics won the day instead. Nature of the beast.

142 It is the kick the can plan.

143 I remain 99% against it, mainly because there are no actual cuts.  These are just less than the rising projected spending.

My 1% for it is just that it will be one more plan that the house passes that the senate refuses and that is good for optics.  Now if the house would just go on summer break after the senate denies it and says call us when you pass something, I'd give a big pat on the back.

144

I think I'm going to need to reconsider my stance on illegal substances to get through the next year or so.

Don't do that, I have a whole wine cellar to get rid of now.  C'mon over.

God knows it's not going to be worth shit when the economy collapses, so I best get started on the swilling.

145 Look at it this way. If we don't win in 2012, this battle will have meant nothing.

If we don't win 2012 (not that it matters anymore) it will be because of the GOP cowardice evidenced today.

146

You know, I'm willing to bet that's the actual reality at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW.

 

To tell the truth, I'd prefer a double-ender...

but whenever we go ass to ass, I get beat up worse than I do when I hold a presser with Prime Minister Netanyahu.

147 And good lord at that CK wishcasting. With nothing to go on, he's telling us that the Dems in the Senate were just bluffing and so is the President. Can't wait to see CK on Monday when the Dems vote this bitch down.

148 exceller, brown gargantua...

I don't completely disagree that Boehner abandoned CCB too early. But there would have quickly come a point that Democrats would hammer at the fact that Republicans are unwilling to compromise. That Republicans only presenting one bill, refusing to change it, etc. At least we now have all kinds of cover. And if CCB wouldn't pass the Senate, it wouldn't pass the Senate. I agree there was a tactical mistake though.

149 If the prize is won, then we expect major changes - no compromise, no quarter, no return to Bushism or same-old-same-old business-as-usual.

I'll get right on that!

I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.

150 Just a hunch, but I'm pretty sure Boehner isn't familiar with the OODA loop

Posted by: kbdabear at July 28, 2011 03:30 PM

Bullshit! I saw them just the other night on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

Posted by: John Boehner

 

That was us. McCain was right. We're everywhere

151 so in 2013 when obamacare kicks in the republcians will then realize how much they screwed the pooch?

152 I'd like to smash John Boehner in the balls with a signed hardcover first edition of Herb Cohen's "You Can Negotiate Anything."

153 I'm not going to vote on this bill until I know what's in it. For once I'd like to know who is getting fucked over on a bill and that it's not my people

154

Just think of Lucy promising to hold the football for Charlie Brown.  You know the result.

We are so screwed.

155 143Gentlemen, here are our choices.

Do you want to be gang banged from the front? Or from the back?

Posted by: cherry ð at July 28, 2011 03:36 PM (OhYCU)

You're not talking about hot Asian cheerleaders are you?

This is going to be the big Rosie, Pulp Fiction kind of gang bang, eh?

156 "Do you want to be gang banged from the front? Or from the back?" hmm...men or women?

157 142 132 This isn't going to be done by a law being signed. It's going to be done by executive order. McConnell saw this early on in the process and didn't want any part of it.

Not involved? The same McConnell who is now talking to Joe Biden?

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 28, 2011 03:36 PM (o2lIv)

She probably got that talking point from her brain (talk radio).  If it weren't for her "friends" and talk radio she'd just sit staring at a wall drooling. 

158 Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 28, 2011 03:39 PM (lbo6/)

You can't.

He doesn't have any.

159 With due respect to Thomas Sowell, his analogy really only works if say the British were burning and pillaging the colonies while Washington retreated.

What are we suppose to do with one half of one third of the government?

How about we ask Senator Christine O'Donnell, the last brilliant idea you guys had.

Controlling just the House, we're the SEAL team as they just enter the showers in The Rock. We can not fight here and win. Stop talking. Stop thinking. WE CAN NOT WIN HERE.

The House is a distributed body with 435 different ideas. The conservatives are unorganized, the Republican Party is factionized ahead of open primary warfare. Our lines of communication to the voters is filtered by a biased intermediary, the media. And our opponents have one leader, one voice who commands a direct communications channel to the voters and happens to be a guy who can bullshit with the best of them. WE CAN NOT WIN HERE.

The very fact that we're going to gain something, anything, out of this while guaranteeing that in the final act, we're on level ground.... it's a win. we should be thanking God.

Protip: The British did.

160 "The fact is that Democrats have made this country great..."

~Jim Doran, D-Mars

161

I'd like to smash John Boehner in the balls with a signed hardcover first edition of Herb Cohen's "You Can Negotiate Anything."

Don't  do that. 

He'll cry.

And I swear, if I see him cry one more time, I'm going to go over to the Capitol and really give him something to cry about.

(Hey, it used to work when my Dad said it to me....)

162 167 Sorry, Moran.

163 Spouse, who is a retirement financial planner has been holding client hands hands for two weeks, and they're getting damned nervous about market implosion. 

The only positive I can report is that one fella, who is 9 mos away from retiring and WAS a bonafide Obot, finally had the veil lifted from his eyes this week.   He's been screaming bloody murder about how he was fooled by the JEF. Heh. Own it.

Makes me wonder if thinking the vast public will blame republicans might not be entirely accurate.  Some see the truth.

164 I suppose Reid can screw with it -- or reject it. But is it a gamble he can afford to take?

Yes, he can because he's immune. The Media will claim, again and again, it's not Reid's fault but the fault of the uncompromising terrorists who've taken over the House. They're already playing that record. And people will believe it because many already did. Reid and Obama won a HUGE tactical victory by driving a wedge between the GOP and the Tea Partiers...but he wouldn't have won that victory without Boehner's idiocy. Now the Repubs are screwed, and Boehner helped.

Carney said there will be no default. That means either two things. Either he admitted the default scare is bunk or he admitted Obama/Reid is bluffing and they will indeed act when time runs out.

He was lying. Every time they brought it up, it was a lie.

We'll find out soon either way. And no matter which it is, Obama and Reid look bad.

I think the blame will be laid entirely on Boehner and the Tea Party, but we'll see soon enough.

165 Anybody seen my curling iron?

166 >>so in 2013 when obamacare kicks in the republcians will then realize how much they screwed the pooch? Yes, because Republicans overwhelmingly supported Obamacare and not one Republican presidential candidate is running on repealing it. I'm beginning to think your "friends" are just voices you hear in your head.

167 FWIW, Fucksnap McTroll(s)Twat was lamenting the fact that Ron Paul wasn't included in Gabe's poll on the other thread.

So you can just pretty skip everything coming out of His/Her/Its/Their mouth.

168 btw, I think that ultimately their will be a 1 or 2 month straight increase so these guys can have their precious vacation.  I mean they need a break from boning us up the backside.

169
Though we have a problem.

That part about the executive getting to pick who gets money and who doesn't is what convinces me. We're going to raise the debt ceiling.

170 hmm...men or women?

Not sure, but Helen Thomas is the good looking one.

171 The very fact that we're going to gain something, anything, out of this while guaranteeing that in the final act, we're on level ground.... it's a win. we should be thanking God.

Protip: The British did.

Posted by: Uriah Heep

 

If i was with you, I'd be pushing you off of  the high ground over a cliff. it's my nature.

172 factual observation, we will not shut it down. Yup, because the GOP sucks at negotiating. Oh well. We call JEF's bluff and we apparently don't know how to bluff, so both sides are kinda lame.

173

 The House, Senate and The White House are arguing over how much the budget is increased, not over how much to cut present spending.

 They're arguing over how fast to drive... while the car goes over the cliff. They aren't arguing about stopping the car or changing direction.

 Support the Republican plan, we go over the cliff. Support the Dem plan, we go over the cliff.

 It's time for them to stop the car...or, at least, change direction.

 

 

 

 

174 159 I'd like to smash John Boehner in the balls with a signed hardcover first edition of Herb Cohen's "You Can Negotiate Anything." Posted by: Empire of Jeff, EXXXTREMIST at July 28, 2011 03:39 PM

OK, but only if it's a copy signed by the author.

See, I can negotiate when I really want to

175 btw, I think that ultimately their will be a 1 or 2 month straight increase so these guys can have their precious vacation.

I'm sure that is exactly what is Barky's main motivation. He's gotta go hang out with all his rich peep on the Vineyard.

176

I'm so lucky to have 7,567,896 friends who all work in every different field imaginable so I can tell you all what they think.  And I'm so lucky I have a "job" where I'm able to spend all day posting gay pron and birther links to you guys.  And I'm really lucky that I can listen to the radio, because if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have a thought in my head.

I'm praying for all of you. LOL!

177

@138,

"but anyone who thinks that the GOP comes out ahead on that deal is fooling themselves."

Earth to HollowPoint! This is Earth...HollowPoint do you Read?

The GOP is gonna come out of all this as the most hated people on the planet NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO! There is no way to avoid the economic pain coming...no matter who is elected to what position...It all comes down to "who is forcing who" to take responsiblity for "what!"

We have already missed the opportunity to fix anything..we are being downgraded regardless. This is no longer a debate about economics...at this point it is political bloodsport.

I challenge you to run the data to prove that any Republican can do anything that benefits this economy before 2012...Show your Work!

178  They're arguing over how fast to drive... while the car goes over the cliff.

In 2012, we all get a new Porsche

179 It's time for them to stop the car...or, at least, change direction.

You are racist and an idiot for thinking for yourself.

180 Are the markets telling us it's a bad deal or it would be bad if this bad deal didn't pass?

181 Boehner is still just barely short on votes.

182 Posted by: Uriah Heep at July 28, 2011 03:41 PM (0lc8C)

Based on your own logic (to whit: Our lines of communication to the voters is filtered by a biased intermediary, the media.) This falls apart- because it is based on being able to communicate with the voters.

The only way we win anything with the current plan is if we communicate to the voters why we made them sit through this again in 6 months (or 9, or 12, or whatever), and lay it (accurately) at Obama's door.

The Democrats (and, therefore, the media) are already combating this by calling any solution that doesn't go all the way through Jan 2013 as a "band-aid solution."  They'll follow that up (even if they 'lose' this round and have to fight it again during an election year) by saying, "If those nasty Republicans had just manned up back in July/August of last year, we wouldn't be dealing with this mess."

Your theory only works if you believe that a) we can't communicate with the voters now, but b) we will be able to in 6 months.  Why would you think that?  What do you think is going to change?

183

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 28, 2011 03:36 PM (jUZRg)

 

What all of this is is both parties finally realizing that they've painted themselves into a corner with all the uncontrolled spending of the past 75+ years.  The congressional chickens have come home to roost. 

184

It may be the best deal we can get right now, and probably is. But I don't see why anyone should 'buy' it, just because they admit that. It still doesn't solve the issue, and it won't be over January 2012 either.

But August 2nd is close. Nothing will happen (that won't happen anyway). The political situation might change. Come the dark days of September without a resolution, nothing will still happen. Even Halloween won't bring the immediate economic Ragnarok.

Of course, shit is bad and likely getting far worse, but nothing in any of theses plans is going to stop that anyway.

Reid is saying he's about to vote Boehner's plan down, and he doesn't have a plan on paper to pass.

Go democrats! Blast it out of the sky and rub his face in it and tell him to get you a juice box and piss on his shoes. And then go home for the weekend. Seriously.

185
The car isn't stopping any time soon.

That limp-dicked bowtie-wearing sissy George Will reminded Laura I's listeners today that government is a huge ocean liner. It cannot turn on a dime.

186 How can a boner be short?

Racist cars?

187

I don't completely disagree that Boehner abandoned CCB too early. But there would have quickly come a point that Democrats would hammer at the fact that Republicans are unwilling to compromise. That Republicans only presenting one bill, refusing to change it, etc. At least we now have all kinds of cover. And if CCB wouldn't pass the Senate, it wouldn't pass the Senate. I agree there was a tactical mistake though.

Posted by: Crispian at July 28, 2011 03:39 PM (ULTcD)

I don't get this reasoning AT ALL.  What the hell was Boehner supposed to do after CCB passed the House and Harry Reid tabled it?  Jump up and down?  Cry?  And don't be fooled by that 51-vote margin, if Reid needs all 53 Democrats he will get them.  And he might have even gotten Scott Brown on that one. 

Face it, the Balanced Budget Amendment is seen by the media and a large number of Americans as a dumb gimmick.  Attaching it to a debt ceiling increase was good theater but it was never going to get past the Senate.  Now we have a serious bill coming out of the House, and if Reid kills this one the onus is going to be on him.  He is going to have to explain to the American people why he won't even allow a vote on a bill that is clearly a compromise from the GOP's opening position.

188

Posted by: curiously dense at July 28, 2011 03:45 PM (oVQFe)

Yes, but do you have a nice rack?

189 Pass 400 plans.

And start every single answer on any question whatsoever (including "Sky color is ?") with "We've passed 14 viable plans, the Senate has passed 0, and Obama's one suggestion was rejected unanimously by the Democratics in the Senate."

I don't -like- these plans. But we're going to suck the blame here. So rack up the biggest possible positive ammo you can.

190 Boehner blew it. He should have stuck with CC&B and repeated until he was blue in the face that 65% of Americans support it. Throw that polling data at Manchin, Baucus, Nelson, McCaskill, etc. every day until they cave. You don't need a "balanced approach" when the public already overwhelming approves this specific bill.

191

192 You hit the nail on the head.  It all hinges on the question "how much deficit spending are the Republicans willing to engage in to avoid a shutdown of 1/3 of the government.

It's obvious that Boner (and most of the Republican punditry) isn't even willing to PRETEND that a 1/3 shutdown would be preferable to more reckless spending.

My question is "when the hell did we all decide that ruinous spending is better than a 1/3 government shutdown?"

And "if Bill Clinton could live with 1/3 less government spending than we have now, why the hell can't Obama?"

-Mercy

193

How about we ask Senator Christine O'Donnell, the last brilliant idea you guys had.

----------

I can't take anymore of this intellectually dishonest bullshit. If COD was "our" fault, then John McCain was "your" fault. Such utter garbage.

194 In 2012, we all get a new Porsche Posted by: cherry π at July 28, 2011 03:46 PM (OhYCU) Nah hopefully a 5 year old pick up that still does the job and will not cost us a fortune

195 In the event that we somehow manage to keep the House in 2012 I really, really hope that Boner is replaced. He may be a nice guy but he is not the man for this job.

196 What are we suppose to do with one half of one third of the government?

There are three groups at the table - the Senate, the President, and the House.  All three can stop the process alone.  The Senate and the president are negotiating as one side against the House.

No deal can get done without the GOP.  No deal can get done without the Dems.  There are two parties negotiating, like there always are and probably always will be, unless you hinge on us getting a filibuster-proof majority and the WH and Senate in 2012.

At some point you need to confront the Dems and be willing to stare down with them.  Why having two houses versus one makes this easier is beyond me.

197 exceller, brown gargantua...

I don't completely disagree that Boehner abandoned CCB too early. But there would have quickly come a point that Democrats would hammer at the fact that Republicans are unwilling to compromise. That Republicans only presenting one bill, refusing to change it, etc. At least we now have all kinds of cover.

From whom? With whom?

198 >>He should have stuck with CC&B and repeated until he was blue in the face that 65% of Americans support it. Throw that polling data at Manchin, Baucus, Nelson, McCaskill, etc. every day until they cave. >>You don't need a "balanced approach" when the public already overwhelming approves this specific bill. Could you post a link to that poll.

199 so in 2013 when obamacare kicks in the republcians will then realize how much they screwed the pooch?

Actually, 2014 is when most of the "interesting" provisions kick in.  The only thing that kicks in in 2013 is a tax hike.

200 Ron Paul/Guliani 2012!!!  Because those are the guys who I think can win because the last time I was hooked up to a brain scan it gave a pretty flat line.

201

Face it, the Balanced Budget Amendment is seen by the media and a large number of Americans as a dumb gimmick. 

---------

I'd love to see where you're getting this one from. It certainly wouldn't be the poll that said 66% support the bill. So, please, enlighten us.

202 Pence said he was promised votes on two different BBAs, one of which caps spending at 18% of GDP. The other is the old one.

203 Boehner is still just barely short on votes.

The last I heard the vote is scheduled for 6 pm tonight. If he's short does he move it?

204 you are so involved in your political posturing and positioning that you don't realize that the American people are beginning to think that they don't really care if we default. 

people see a news blurb and say out loud, "they are all the same, what difference does it make, we're going to default anyway, we have no choice, it's going to happen"...

have heard that in the real world today more times than I can count.  Not all the same words but the same  thought.

205

I challenge you to run the data to prove that any Republican can do anything that benefits this economy before 2012...Show your Work!

Posted by: Jimi at July 28, 2011 03:46 PM (JMsOK)

All I can think of is do their damndest to INFORM the public WTF is going on and whats going to happen.  The Dems lie and point fingers...no plans ever and the MFM isnt going to do shit about telling the truth.  Impossible mission to educate half the idiots in this country as to the amount of DOOM rolling down shit mountain..but they have to try.

206 Stop talking. Stop thinking. WE CAN NOT WIN HERE.


Right because what? Dems wouldn't fillibuster their asses off? Your type are pretty common. Not only can't you win here, you can't win anywhere. Because any risk at all is impending failure to you. Any bold action stupidity. You are the epitome of the critic in "The Man in the Arena" doomed to a life of failure, and at best mediocrity, for under no circumstance will you risk winning under any adverse condition.

Why don't you stop wasting our time and go find a good seat to watch the collapse from.

We could win here. If we actually had a leader in Congress.

207 I'm kind of shocked that no one is focusing on the fraud that is being committed on this country by Moodys, S&P and the colluding President. The whole purpose of this raising the debt ceiling is to protect our credit rating. Truth is we can pay our bills now. What we can't pay for is shrimp on treadmills and cowboy poetry. Moodys and the S&P are run by Socialist College PHD's, Indians, Chinese, Russians the IMF and the world bank. It's all a fraud. Our President is in bed with international interests to destroy our Country. The Pols we put in place in 2010 were supposed to see through this and stand tall. They are not.

208
If Reid needs to tack an amendment onto the Boehner plan to get it passed, I propose that it be that for the remaining term, we replace the title of "Mr. President" with "Your Awesomeness." I would love to see that happen.

209 Good news, everyone. You guys like strawberries, right? Well, thanks to my brilliant negotiations they're going to use strawberry-flavored lube for your A2M gangbang. You're welcome.

210 203 In the event that we somehow manage to keep the House in 2012 I really, really hope that Boner is replaced. He may be a nice guy but he is not the man for this job.

That might happen sooner rather than later if the final product in this "debate" has no merit whatsoever.

211 166 Uriah Heep, brother, you are so off base it isn't even funny. Are you just choosing to ignore the telling comments of McCain, another Castle type republican? You see the McConnell types wanting to simply hand over complete power to Obama without a fight, that was very Castle like. Wasn't Castle in power along side the republicans when they did hold all the cards....Where exactly did that get us other than right where we are now. I'm so tired of people saying, numbers,numbers,numbers without taking into account "who" those numbers are.Yeah we need the numbers but Hell no we don't need more Castle's. And not to dump on you but this is a pet peeve of mine.All along, starting in the last election was to "start" getting the right people into office but it was never a one election deal, it will take more like 2-3 and alot of luck. The point is, Castle and Boehner types will never, in a million years, with complete and total power take this country to where it needs to go.

212 If this gets past the House, the Senate and President will fold like a dead hooker stuck in a suitcase. Worst case is that it passes US gets downgraded anyway and markets crash. Then the Dems say the Republican's screwed the pooch.

213

You're welcome.

Posted by: John Boehner at July 28, 2011 03:52 PM (saRwI)

Fuck you, I requested grape flavor.

You call that a deal? 

214
Let's help them push the Socialist LaPuta GTX over the cliff.

It's loud and out of gas.  But, at least it doesn't smoke.

215 @166

This is not even close to a win.  The GOP has just voted for more deficit spending in exchange for imaginary cuts.  And the final bill will likely be even worse.

If it's the best we can do- fine.  But don't pretend it's not a crap sandwich.  I don't even know why Senate Democrats would vote on this bill.  They should just table this like they did CCB and wait for the next one.

216 Ahh, but the strawberries that's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and ...

217 185

@138,

"but anyone who thinks that the GOP comes out ahead on that deal is fooling themselves."

Earth to HollowPoint! This is Earth...HollowPoint do you Read?

The GOP is gonna come out of all this as the most hated people on the planet NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO! There is no way to avoid the economic pain coming...no matter who is elected to what position...It all comes down to "who is forcing who" to take responsiblity for "what!"

We have already missed the opportunity to fix anything..we are being downgraded regardless. This is no longer a debate about economics...at this point it is political bloodsport.

I challenge you to run the data to prove that any Republican can do anything that benefits this economy before 2012...Show your Work!

Answer: see post 198.

218 what'd we get last time the govt shut down?  besides Clinton's reelection.

219 Yeah I live in the real world where Rudy Giuliani and Ron Paul are legitimate candidates for the Presidency.  The only city that matters.  All the rest of you are off in that fake world.

220 Indeed, we all need to repeat to ourselves the point that "we're winning this issue." We have the polls on our side. Reid and Obama are hurting themselves. They're in their cocoon of media blissful ignorance.

221 183 btw, I think that ultimately their will be a 1 or 2 month straight increase so these guys can have their precious vacation.

I'm sure that is exactly what is Barky's main motivation. He's gotta go hang out with all his rich peep on the Vineyard.
Posted by: Retread at July 28, 2011 03:45 PM

Hey, my 50th birthday party is August 4th. I wouldn't ask YOU to miss YOUR birthday party. Especially if millions of dollars was committed to getting me there, and my friends can't return the gifts

222 We aren't going to get a better deal down the road.

223 look at hotair, Obama's losing ground on everything. The left has wishcast the idea that 1996 govÂ’t shutdown was bad for the GOP or something. Without Ross Perot, weÂ’d be in the second term of KempÂ’s administration.

224
@199
That's me taking a sock off with the Return key. I DIDN'T GET NUKED.

225 I'm not involved in posturing. I'm an independent so that means I'm smarter than all of you hicks in the sticks with your big box stores like Wally-Mart. You can't even get milk toasties and champagne there and the Goldman Slacks guys really like girls (?) that drink champagne at all hours of the day.  Lata, hicks. *hiccup*

226 Just thinking, perhaps hypothetically.  What if this so-called scramble to get repub votes in the House is a ruse to delay the vote until the date gets closer to Aug 2?  The senate dems would really be in a pickle, huh?

227 211 The last I heard the vote is scheduled for 6 pm tonight. If he's short does he move it?

Due to the fact that he is so close. (They are debating now.) But if he loses this vote, it will likely be seen as a referendum on him.

228

I'm just tired of having Christine O' thrown in my face by people who can't admit that it was the same type of people that nominated her that elected Ron Johnson, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, and Mike Lee. Remove that attitude and those people, and you get Mike Castle...you also get Bob Bennet and Charlie Crist. Bravo....

But you will NEVER get them to admit that.

229

 I don't care how many pundits come out in support of this, I'm not on board.

Here's why--we never made our strongest argument which is this:

------------------------------

President Obama shoved through an almost 1 trillion dollar stimulus that did nothing but harm our recovery and now this additional 30% of spending is BAKED INTO THE DEFICIT CAKE.

No one can now reasonably argue that we should be forced to live with this increase on top of an already unsustainable level or spending in perpetuity.

It's is both reasonable and prudent to roll back spending to pre-stimulus levels. Children didn't go hungry in the streets before that and they will not afterward.

This president has more than quadrupled the annual deficit in just a couple of years. He cannot now argue that scaling back this massive increase is anything but sound, common sense, policy.

This administration is out of control and it's time to take away the credit card before this spending binge bankrupts us all.

----------------------------

But they didn't make this case--they passed a measly 30 billion dollar spending cut that is going to be vetoed anyway.

All this theater over an amount that doesn't change anything.

At the very least, they could have used this as an opportunity to move the Overton window.

But they didn't. The cowardly worms did what they always do--made an empty gesture and kicked the can down the road again.

Well fuck this and FUCK THEM.

I have more respect for the left at this point. At least they play to win.

I'm out. I'm not playing this bullshit, rigged game any longer. Every man for himself.

 

 

230 @JackStraw http://tinyurl.com/3ug32nc

231
McCane: "You have nothing to fear from Obama"

232 ugh, who unbanned 80sbaby? Now we're actually going to get accurate, informed, up-to-the-minute political news and analysis -- Ace's whole schtick is gonna be ruined!

233 are any of the tea party electees remaining steadfast?  

cause this mean spirited political process isn't really making anyone look good.

the dirty little secret is that a lot of Americans of all shapes, sizes and stripes may not belong to the tea party but want it to continue the pressure and associate with the ideas.  so whenever these folks attack the tea party they are downgrading the American public.  Who is now starting to pay attention and saying stuff like "just default and get it over with already" out loud in the workplace at the market, in the mall when asked.

234 jeanne, there are those of us who respond by pointing out that in 1998, we picked up senate seats. and Dole sucked and Perot was the coup detat to dole's campaign.

235

Agreed. But so help me if they go into "parade mode" after this bullshit...

236 How can a boner be short?

The brilliant, courageous establishment republicans won't tell you this, but the further left you move a deal, the more of a poison pill it becomes to folks on the right and at some point you lose support on the right. They would have you believe that there is always more to be gained from the center than making a deal with the right. Perhaps today is one of the days their genius falters.

237 Don't give up on the Republicans.  I mean, if they can make a hurricane hit New Orleans they can do anything.

238 But if he loses this vote, it will likely be seen as a referendum on him.

As it should be.  There were plenty of us "proles" who were screaming "No John Boehner!!!" staring on a certain Friday in November.  To bad they didn't listen to us.

239 Later, when the conditions were right for attack, General Washington attacked. But he would have had nothing to attack with if he had wasted his troops in battles that would have wiped them out.

Cue lefty blogs saying that Sowell is calling for armed insurrection against Obama because he's black or something.

240

_______________________________________________________

241 buzzion, you crack me up

242

As it should be.  There were plenty of us "proles" who were screaming "No John Boehner!!!" staring on a certain Friday in November.  To bad they didn't listen to us.

Friday? Wasn't he crying on election night? That should've been the tipoff right there.

243 Your theory only works if you believe that a) we can't communicate with the voters now, but b) we will be able to in 6 months.  Why would you think that?  What do you think is going to change?

6 months was a fill-in, I forgot the exact timeframe for the 2nd step in Boehner's plan that should be in the autumn before the 2012 elections.

What will change it is that the Republicans will have coalesced around a single spokesman (or woman): they will be running a candidate who will be coming out of the convention, riding it's bounce.

There will be interviews on network TV, debates, etc. All without the current bullshit where conservatives are disorganized and the Republican party is factioned ahead of the primaries.

Ace and conservatives like him should be out front explaining this shit, explaining the strategy and deeper logic, not acting out like a punk kid coming down from a sugar high who demands more pixie-sticks.

The only way we win anything with the current plan is if we communicate to the voters why we made them sit through this again in 6 months (or 9, or 12, or whatever), and lay it (accurately) at Obama's door.

True, but it's already been floated by the media and the Obama administrations actions designed to up the pressure effective are making it so that if we get this passed in the House, as the only game in town with players on the field: it plays or Obama takes the blame (see WH briefing where Carney is questioned on Obama's plan).

244

_______________________________________________________

Posted by: curious' brain scan at July 28, 2011 03:58 PM (oVQFe)

lol.

245 I am resigned to the fact all congress really is arguing over is the size of the increase of the debt limit.  If at the end of the day, they increase it beyond 6 months, the repubs are not on your side.

246

@225

Brown,

Fine....but the Senate still isn't gonna pass it, and if they compromise it, Obama says he'll veto it.

 

247 **But if he loses this vote, it will likely be seen as a referendum on him.** It should be, he screwed the pooch on this. His starting position was too weak. And he got blindsided by how bad the numbers of his own version 1.0 bill was. It's his fault. Compromise, as JEF says, would be coming to an agreement in the middle, well, the middle depends on where the two sides start, eh?

248 249, rofl

249 Johnny at July 28, 2011 03:56 PM (iT/Iy) Thanks.

250

But you will NEVER get them to admit that.

Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 03:55 PM (wnGI4)

Shut up. We're smarter than you because we say so, just like our liberal friends.

251

Due to the fact that he is so close. (They are debating now.) But if he loses this vote, it will likely be seen as a referendum on him.

I guess this would be the equivalent of a parliamentary "No Confidence" vote.

252 The only votes Boehner has "lost" are the ones he never had. A majority of them either signed the CCB pledge or promised not to raise the debt ceiling.

246 As it should be.  There were plenty of us "proles" who were screaming "No John Boehner!!!" staring on a certain Friday in November.  To bad they didn't listen to us.

I'm curious-- if they eventually agree to replace him, who would they choose?

253 This is so fucking nauseating.  $1 trillion in cuts over 10 years when we've already blown through $3+ trillion on BHO's watch, and on pace to add trillions more.  So, Reid and Boehner get to argue over who's the world's tallest fucking midget.  Color me unimpressed.

Cut off all communication now, and let the August 2nd deadline arrive.  The sun won't explode and life won't end.

254 Ace and conservatives like him should be out front explaining this shit, explaining the strategy and deeper logic, not acting out like a punk kid coming down from a sugar high who demands more pixie-sticks.

Why should they bother?  This plan you think is so brilliant is as dead as CCB.  Move forward.

255

...then walk away and tell the public that you're going to wait for an actual counteroffer as opposed to "No."

Trouble is, "the public" is a lot closer to Oprah than to an Ace of Spades moron.

256 The only way we win anything with the current plan is if we communicate to the voters why we made them sit through this again in 6 months (or 9, or 12, or whatever), and lay it (accurately) at Obama's door.

True, but it's already been floated by the media and the Obama administrations actions designed to up the pressure effective are making it so that if we get this passed in the House, as the only game in town with players on the field: it plays or Obama takes the blame (see WH briefing where Carney is questioned on Obama's plan).

Posted by: Uriah Heep

 

Bullshit. The WH press corps is like the jewish vote and idiots who listen to Bernie Sanders. They'll whine and bitch but will follow their Dear leaders' orders. They wouldn't have left that room if Bush tried to send them on their way without something they could shred. And the MFM would lead with it. These vermin will do as they're told and f the worst comes they'll turn back into the vicious dishonest scum (ANG memo).

 

257 The fact that Boehner can't pass this w/o all of the Rs tells you all you need to know. If he can't get just a few Dems to come over in the House, what makes him think he can get them in the Senate? Or even better, what makes him think he can get O?

258

Sowell makes a great point in the first paragraph, and should have emphasized it more. We already won half the battle: No New Taxes.

This is a huge victory.

As far as spending is concerned, Speaker B negotiated very poorly; he should have passed CC&B a second (or is it third) time and demanded the Senate respond. This is something Americans of every persuasion can understand. People tend to feel whomever makes the first offer is at a disadvantage. This isn't necessarily true, if one is a skilled negotiator, but most people aren't, especially, it seems, if they hold a Republican leadership postion in the US Congress.

So the Reps should have repeated over and over that they made the first offer, now the Senate must respond, but they don't know how to do that (yet), so it looks like this is it.

We won on taxes--HUGE--so now it's time to prep for 2012, when the Presidency and the Senate are there for the taking. Remember, all this "10 year budget" stuff is nonsense; the budget is a year to year item.

259 The important thing to me about the Boehner plan is that it's half the $$ Obama asked for and it's short-term.  Let the Dems vote it down and then whine about default.

If the GOP can't make it crystal clear that Reid's stance is a politics-over-country ploy by the Dems, then fuck 'em all -- they don't deserve to serve my interests.

260 Has the burning started yet?

261 Well, looks like we're going to find out what will happen, one way or another. My suspicion is that the Republicans will end up with the short end of the stick.

Again.

262

Sowell makes a great point in the first paragraph, and should have emphasized it more. We already won half the battle: No New Taxes.

This is a huge victory

------------

I'm sorry, but I just don't view this as a victory. These things are done w/o any debate whatsoever and the Rs could have passed a clean bill a long time ago and no one would have said boo about taxes. The only reason O mentioned taxes is because the Rs made a fight of this, but it was never a serious suggestion.

I mean, if Obama had demanded that we kill every second born son in the country, and the Rs managed to get a deal that didn't involve doing that, is that a win? No, because the suggestion was so damn stupid from the start that it was never a serious possibility. Raising taxes was never a serious possibility.

263 I'm just tired of having Christine O' thrown in my face by people who can't admit that it was the same type of people that nominated her that elected Ron Johnson, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, and Mike Lee. Remove that attitude and those people, and you get Mike Castle...you also get Bob Bennet and Charlie Crist. Bravo....

Don't like the truth?

Everyone knew Marco Rubio could win, the numbers demonstrated it.
Everyone knew Rand Paul could win, the numbers showed it.
Everyone knew Mike Lee could win, again, the numbers showed it....

Everyone knew O'Donnell was ritualistic seppuku, the numbers demonstrated it -- yet you did it.

And you did it because of ideological reasons, in the pursuit of some higher calling for ideological purity -- it was your object petit a. The polling showed that in all likelihood you could have a Republican or lose with a Conservative and you chose. Now deal with it.

What's suppose to separate conservatives from dirty hippy liberals is that we're rational and learn from experience. So far, you're disappointing me.

264 Call me psychic, call me crazy, but I've a hunch there will be an awful, unexpected nation-shaking event within the next week, totally unrelated (?) to the current budget falderol. Just a hunch...

265 What will change it is that the Republicans will have coalesced around a single spokesman (or woman): they will be running a candidate who will be coming out of the convention, riding it's bounce.

What color is the sky in your world?

See, here's what'll happen-  Let's say they've pushed it out 12 months.  So August 2012 comes around, and it's time to raise the debt ceiling again. 

1) Cue MFM with stories about how the debt limit not being raised is catastrophic (this might even happen starting in June or July).
2) Cue Elected Democrats complaining about the "Cynical political ploy of applying a band-aid to this problem, just so they could use it for political advantage."
3) Cue MFM using faux sympathy to ask questions like, "It must be hard to get your message out, since the debt ceiling fight is going on again.  Why didn't Republicans just raise it through the end of 2012 when they had the chance?"
4) Cue MFM not talking about the campaign at all- except when they very specifically have to- to do wall-to-wall coverage of the debt ceiling.

Okay- all that will be going on, so the members of the House will feel yet more pressure to "do something" then than they are now.  Worse, it'll be the height of campaign season- so if they "stick to their guns" on raising the debt ceiling, they run off moderates who "just want it dealt with," but if they compromise on it then, they risk (seriously risk, in many cases) turning off their own base.

Might the Republican Candidate be asked, then, what he (or she) thinks should be done?  Maybe.  More likely, though, all the questions will be framed to make the point that s/he has nothing to do with the situation, and won't have to deal with it upon taking office" or whatever.

Republicans do not "win" PR fights as long as they're based on sound bytes.  There is a very good reason the Media prevented the 2008 election from being about actual issues- because McCain (as weak as he is) was far better than Obama on every single issue.  You think they're going to change that in 2012?

266

We won on taxes--HUGE--so now it's time to prep for 2012, when the Presidency and the Senate are there for the taking. Remember, all this "10 year budget" stuff is nonsense; the budget is a year to year item.

Posted by: Joe Ynot at July 28, 2011 04:06 PM (sRSwO)

 

If there's anything that I'm proud of Boehner and repubs standing firm and unwavering on is this.  Higher taxes would have been the definitive bullet that would have finished killing the US economy.

267 I'm curious

No you're not.  You couldn't be that vapid if you tried.

 if they eventually agree to replace him, who would they choose?

No clue.  I would pick someone like Cantor (who has been very solid, this session) or maybe one of the Texas Reps. 

268 Ace and conservatives like him should be out front explaining this shit, explaining the strategy and deeper logic, not acting out like a punk kid coming down from a sugar high who demands more pixie-sticks.

So Ace doen't want to buy the line, and suddenly he is an petulant child?

Let me explain something to your childish ass. Every 1% of yield costs us 150B a year on debt, and 15 billion a year on the deficit.

In two years if we had no increase in yield and just kept the deficit where it is, we will have a total debt of 15.6T dollars, or 110% of GDP.

The reason we put forth the Sharon Angles and the Unfortunate C O'Donell is exactly what is happening right now. Oooooo we desperately need to do this but its politically hard, so we surrender. (Pssst maybe we win more seats if we just give up)

The pussies on the hill encourage us to nominate more ideological candidates because they prove time and time again that their is no hill to low for them to give up climbing it. No crisis so great they can't postpone doing something about it.\
So long as they pay no political price.

You are the petulant child. You assume we should serve the political system, when in fact it should be serving us.

269

Posted by: Rich at July 28, 2011 04:09 PM (wnGI4)

 

Bullshit.  Higher taxes are what Dick and Harry want more than anything else.  That's why they liked O'Connell's plan (or the Gang of Six's, not sure) so well.  It would give them their tax hike.

270 We've already lost. Warden is using ace's "Overton Window" term. Homo.

271 This is so fucking nauseating.  $1 trillion in cuts over 10 years when we've already blown through $3+ trillion on BHO's watch, and on pace to add trillions more.

Agreed! But in our constitutional democracy, which I'm hoping you believe in as a conservative, the only way to win this is to take control of the government. Which is why the mf-er needs to go back to Chicago. Which is why we play the winning hand when it's in our interest to do so. Blowing everything up now only hurts us later. See earlier posts for rational.

In the words of Alonzo Harris from Training Day: "The shit's chess, it ain't checkers"

272 276 ...No clue.  I would pick someone like Cantor (who has been very solid, this session) or maybe one of the Texas Reps.

Cantor is a social conservative and solid on defense but he is not always as strong when it comes to fiscal conservatism. But he is more conservative than Boehner on some points and he is also a better at offering red meat to the base.

One of the Texas reps? I'd go for Hensarling or my congressman, Judge Poe.

273 Vote count update:

Boehner just hit a solid 24 no votes, which is the highest number he can afford to lose. One more no vote and he will have to pull this bill.

274 In the words of Alonzo Harris from Training Day: "The shit's chess, it ain't checkers"

Alonzo Harris - the crooked cop who dies at the end.  That's the guy we should take advice from?!?!

275

Brown,

Fine....but the Senate still isn't gonna pass it, and if they compromise it, Obama says he'll veto it.

Might he lie about that?

276 Remember how Ike was relieved on D-Day because Germany didn't immediately surrender. Served that punk right for only wining the Battle and not the war.

277

Warden is using ace's "Overton Window" term.

Homo.

Hahaha!

Seriously, though, what the GOP doesn't get that the left does is that you can MOVE this window yourself. You don't have to wait for some external force to do it for you.

The Republicans have made the same mistake they always do--they've ceded the premise the Democrats.

Federal spending has gone up 25-30% under President Piss-pants. This shit is OUT OF CONTROL. So why aren't we talking about how obscenely irresponsibe it is to make this level of spending the default going forward?

The GOP should have come large by demanding a rollback to pre-stimulus levels, had that public debate, and then negotiated down from there.

But get the goddamned debate out there and on record.

Instead, we get this weak tea. Again. As always.

278 Republicans do not "win" PR fights as long as they're based on sound bytes.  There is a very good reason the Media prevented the 2008 election from being about actual issues- because McCain (as weak as he is) was far better than Obama on every single issue.  You think they're going to change that in 2012?

Yes we do, when we fight intelligently. Where were you in 2002, or the run up to Iraq? Where were you in 2004 when W run re-election? The difference is Rove and company were smart enough to understand strategy and not just emotion. They understood how to fight and win, to take what you can get.

That's why they were fighting idiots like Christine O'Donnell and Sharon Angle tooth and nail -- they were losers from day 1: the polling showed it.

But, instead of learning from history, looking at the demographics and statistics, you all are like a bunch of liberal hippies arguing out of emotion and feeling. Yeah, well I have a feeling you should get used to if you continue on with your strategy: losing.

Counter-Point 2: McCain lost because he was a horrible and aging candidate. Nothing more. McCain of 2000 would have been a whole other story.

Counter-Point 3: On PR War, an example of a smart strategy (not the bullshit rhetorical shit you guys throw daily) is Romney out there most every day attacking Obama. If Romney's gambit of ignoring you and hopefully surviving the primaries succeeds, he will have strategically positioned himself in perfect fighting position vis-a-vis Obama for the 2012 demographics. It'll have been over a year of solid attacks on Obama and his jobs and economic policy; the idea is to psychologically imprint Obama with "failure" and the economy as opposed to him. That's strategy.

279 Rubio was like 30 points down when people like Sarah Palin and other Tea Party folks got behind him. To say his election was a foregone conclusions from the get go is dishonest.

280 Uriah Heep I'm not going to reargue the ODonnell election but the guy you thought should have been the nominee was a pissant who didn't care one bit about electing a Republican since he not only did not endorse ODonnell he practically campaigned against her.

281

Actually, if they are planning this correctly, the Republicans are doing it right to pass the bill with no margin at all. IF it is deliberate, is shows promise for the future.

 

282 Rubio was like 30 points down when people like Sarah Palin and other Tea Party folks got behind him. To say his election was a foregone conclusions from the get go is dishonest.

Really? How about no.

Palin's first unofficial endorsement was at SRLC on April 10th, 2010

Polling from Rasmussen as of Feb/2/2010:

Primary:
Rubio 49 (+6 vs. last poll, Dec. 15)
Crist 37 (-6)
Und 11

General Electability:
Rubio 49 (nc vs. last poll, Dec. 16)
Meek 32 (-3)
Other 6
Und 13

283

>>Posted by: Doomsday Machine

"The whole point of the Doomsday Machine... is lost IF YOU KEEP IT A SECRET, VY DIDN'T YOU TELL THE WORLD EH?"

 

284 Excellent blog, thanks for the share. I'll be a regular viewer.

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