1
Herb Cain is our Obama.

2 The more I hear of 999 the less appealing it becomes. I'm looking forward to hearing about Perry's flat tax proposal next week.

3
Cain contradicts himself, often in the same breath...just like Obama.

He's everything to all people.

4 Moorehouse. Nuff said.

5 999 started out simple, but if you start adding carve outs you are basically back to what we have now.

6 Herman Cain is a joke. I removed the explitive in honor of his fans here, but just imagine a "fucken" before the "joke" part.

7
Pass this bill before I come 'n git you.

8 As long as he doesn't fuck with my mohair subsidy, I'm on board.

9 Here's an idea: Cut the fucking spending, and once we get the budget under control we can begin to work on the tax code

10 Denounce self.

11 Whenever I hear "Revenue neutral and new taxes " used in the same sentence , my asshole reflexively snaps shut .

12 my asshole reflexively snaps shut .

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at October 20, 2011 02:21 PM (npr0X)

Tell me about it.

13
Gas, groceries, and not becoming like Greece.

We'll reform the tax code later.

14 Simply not qualified to be potus.

15 So it's just a form of the "Fair Tax" plus a VAT. Not interested, leads to the same crap we've got now, with all the jockeying for exemptions.

16

Much as rd brewer has finally gotten his point across re: Mitt Romney--and kudos for the low-key, under-the-radar knowledge-puttin'--I think we're getting the picture about this Cain fellow.

So, you know, no need really to continue bashing another GOP candidate in broad daylight. We have a liberal media for that.

17 It's right up there with Romney's 59 point plan.

18 The term "empowerment zone" makes me uncomfortable. It sounds lefty and stupid, but I repeat myself.

19

Ziss 9-9-9 plan vas predicated on ze idea uf being zimple.  If you haf exzeptions, and complexity, it iz not zimple anymore.

What is ze point?

20
Loopholes. Loopholes. Loopholes.

Sounds funny if you repeat it really fast.

21 Empowerment Zone was one of Kemp's ideas IIRC

22 He should have gone with his original idea of "pay 2 taxes, get 1 free!"

23 I'd rather see a "999" plan that would cap Congress at 999 pages of legislation per year.

24 Michelle Bachmann was right?

Michelle Bachmann was right?

25 Guess we'll have to pass 9-9-9 so we know what's in 9-9-9

26 Given all of the stuff about Cain and Romney, am I supposed to still be disqualifying Perry because of a word he used during a debate?

27 The term "empowerment zone" makes me uncomfortable. It sounds lefty and stupid, but I repeat myself.

Um, except for the fact that it was first used by Reagan, with the idea being that lower taxes would stimulate impoverished urban areas. I fail to see how this is anything different.

28

We should probably stop being surprised.

Obviously, Cain never thought he had a real chance to win, and planned accordingly.

29 It's gonna be a loooooooooong 12 1/2 months.

30 Winters right around the corner.

31 Know Cain. Know pain.

32 It's gonna be a loooooooooong 12 1/2 months.

My liver's already waving the white flag.

33 26- no it's because he gives bland talking point answers which make him seem like an empty suit

34 There is a reason that the feral tax code is some 72,000 pages long.  Much of it is due to good old bipartisan corruption on the part of those dedicated public "servants" we keep returning to office even though it is clear that they have their hands deep in the till.  But there are many legal interpretations required for what at first appear to be quite simple statements of tax policy, as evidenced by the rather exhaustive discussion at AoS of when is what appears to be a VAT not a real VAT.
Never fear, flat or fair or 999, the devil will be in the details and the politicians will be tripping over themselves to make sure that only the passive (middle class) income earners will be screwed while the low income takers will continue to be subsidized via a government wealth redistribution path.
I know, I know, Warren Buffett can hardly wait to pay his fair share!

35 That Ron Paul fellow is looking better every day.

36

you'd think 1 of the alternatives to Romney would pan out

*sighs*

37 My liver's already waving the white flag.

Posted by: Waterhouse at October 20, 2011 02:30 PM (mjSSA)

That just means you double down.

38 There was a quote from Berry the other day that said something like "Fairness to all, and fairness from all" or something. He was, of course, speaking of sharing the wealth, but I was wondering why no reporter ever questions him about all the "citizens" who pay nothing. And the rolls of people who pay nothing have grown during his administration. there is something called "earned income tax" that only applies to some people, but for every social security number they list on their tax papers, they get money back! So those people get huge refunds without paying income tax. this plan sounds like various sections would get carved out, too, which is discouraging.

39 Loopholes. Loopholes. Loopholes.

Sounds funny if you repeat it really fast.

I read it in the voice of the guy at the beginning of Casablanca:

Vultures, vultures, vultures.

40 #16 spongeworthy have you ever bothered to read a response to the criticisms posted by rdbrewer?

41 That Palin woman was unelectable.

42 I am starting to think that Cain never thought he would be out front like he was.  So... no clear thought out plan, just a talking point to try and influence the front runners plans.

43 Welcome to Ace of Rick Perry.

FFS.  I dropped $100 to Ace (didn't eve get a fucking thank you e-mail) last week and this is the constant perry perry perry shit I have to put up with? 

Well. 

Fuck you.  With Satan's Hammer of Blood.

Glad I got that off my chest.  short story is I've given up here.  Wish I could take that $100 back.

44

It was always on his site ... 

How about a link to donate to Romney on every post just to clarify the slant here ?

 

45

I would sooner be goverend by the first 10 non-trolls on a comment thread than by 10 of the GOP field.

Posted by: LibertarianJim at October 20, 2011 02:31 PM (PReJ3)

i'd probably lose a primary amongst this blog's commentors and co-bloggers

46

Posted by: JeffC at October 20, 2011 02:32 PM (A3tpD)

that's funny you think this blog is pro-Romney

47 My liver's already waving the white flag.

Posted by: Waterhouse at October 20, 2011 02:30 PM (mjSSA)

 

Better start drinking light beer, then.

 

 

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Oh who am I kidding?

48
The little voice inside my head tells me Cain is still doing poorly raising money. Just a gut feeling.

49 So it seems it was a Predator ( meaning USA ) that took out gaddafi's motorcade and wounded him and the "rebels" just finished him off

50

Welcome to Ace of Rick Perry.

FFS.  I dropped $100 to Ace (didn't eve get a fucking thank you e-mail) last week and this is the constant perry perry perry shit I have to put up with? 

we haven't had a post on Perry here since he became a backbencher

51 this is the constant perry perry perry shit I have to put up with? 

Uh, what Perry stuff?

52 That Ron Paul fellow is looking better every day.

The scary thing is that it's true. I mean, I'm seriously considering Newt Gingrich for cryin' out loud. (Still a Perry guy, but realistic enough to know that he might not last 'til California if he doesn't get his ass in gear.)

53

Posted by: nevergiveup at October 20, 2011 02:33 PM (i6RpT)

did you see the video of them grabbing him? the guy was begging for his life as if he allowed others to do so, sorry I had fun watching it

54
Perry, Perry, Perry!

55

so we've gotten 2 replies from here:

- you're pro-Romney!

- you're pro-Perry!

okay...

56 OK I am jumping off the Cain train. Can't fix the real problems with his plan, has to fix non-problems, like yeah its okay if some folks don't pay at all.



I've got an idea? Since we are going all democratic as the flavor of the century, and the Constitution is supposed to protect us against tyranny of the majority. Amend the Constitution as follows.

"No tax law or regulation paid by natural persons may be passed or enforced unless at least half of the Citizens of voting age pay said tax; For taxes at a variable rate, at least half the Citizens of voting age must pay the highest rate."

57 Cain is a big Boortz guy...I don't know why he didn't just endorse the Fair Tax...that plan has been much more thought out, it seems, than his 9-9-9 plan. I'm not necessarily endorsing the Fair Tax, just wondering why he wouldn't sign on to that plan as opposed to this, well, mess...

58 *dusting off the old beer bong*

59 The scary thing is that it's true. I mean, I'm seriously considering Newt Gingrich for cryin' out loud. (Still a Perry guy, but realistic enough to know that he might not last 'til California if he doesn't get his ass in gear.) Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 20, 2011 02:34 PM (bjRNS) Bill Parcels once said about the team he was coaching that "you are what your record says you are". Perry has looked like shit in 3-4 debates now. He is what he is. Nothing is gonna change. I'm a Newt guy at this moment

60 Corporate executive type through and through.

61 Anybody but that Romney fellow and it's OK with me.

62 Posted by: Chilling the most for perry at October 20, 2011 02:31 PM (6IV8T)
Good question.  I conclude it would be "mean" to point out that some 47% pay no fed income tax at all and that, better yet, many of them get rebates for which they paid nothing into the system.
The related question that never gets asked is "What is the "fair share" that everyone (from those on unemployment all the way up to corporate jet owning millionaires and billionaires) should pay, and how is it calculated?"

63

Posted by: Ellen at October 20, 2011 02:35 PM (B1FXc)

and even Boortz admits he might not vote for Cain because he wants Obama out

64

But I just hadnÂ’t told the public and my opponents about it yet.

?????????????

 

He's waiting for it to be copyrighted before he releases it.

65

999?

Forget that.

Try my plan:

Five!

Five Dollar!

Five Dollar Foot LOOOONNNGGG!!!!

66 39 Can one of our brother Morons run? Please? I can't any more from these substandard losers. I would sooner be goverend by the first 10 non-trolls on a comment thread than by 10 of the GOP field. Posted by: LibertarianJim at October 20, 2011 02:31 PM (PReJ3) joncelli/Cthulhu 2012: We Can't Be Any Worse Than the Alternatives!

67

Empowerment Zone = discrimination, similar to affirmative action

"Enterprise Zones" is a term that has also been used in the past for basically the same thing.

But Cain's version....Empowerment Zone....a distinction that would be awarded to a depressed geographic area [such as Detroit] giving them tax breaks, so they are basically getting preferential treatment for screwing up their city with failed liberal policies....and getting rewarded for it.

68 my spare cash, and there ain't a lot of it, will go to Cain from now on.  Learned my lesson. 

69 I thank Ace for the support. Now who wants forced health insurance and vaccines?

70 You need a break Americano's. Our girls are hot hot hot.

71 So it seems it was a Predator ( meaning USA ) that took out gaddafi's motorcade and wounded him and the "rebels" just finished him off

Linky?

Did Obama make his grab for glory yet?

72
yeah, Newt is closing the gap, for sure.

if this was a horse race, Newt'd be comin' 'round the bend.

He's a mudder, his father was a mudder and his mother was a mudder.

73 What I hear in this is Cain's plan would have built-in support of the welfare slackers.  Screw that. 

74

Mallamutt/AuthorLMendez 2012

embrace the RINO

75 So it seems it was a Predator ( meaning USA ) that took out gaddafi's motorcade and wounded him and the "rebels" just finished him off Linky? Did Obama make his grab for glory yet? Posted by: Waterhouse at October 20, 2011 02:38 PM (mjSSA) Heard it on FOX TV, so no linky yet

76 Um, except for the fact that it was first used by Reagan, with the idea being that lower taxes would stimulate impoverished urban areas. I fail to see how this is anything different.

Posted by: taylork at October 20, 2011 02:28 PM (5wsU9)

The bottom line is that with "empowerment zones", it becomes the government's job to select winners and losers and create "fairness". Reagan may have championed it, but it's the liberals who latched onto it and put it to work in the real world in the early 90's. It didn't work.

77 Did Obama make his grab for glory yet?

Posted by: Waterhouse at October 20, 2011 02:38 PM (mjSSA)

McCain did it for him

78 Bill Parcels once said about the team he was coaching that "you are what your record says you are".

Yeah, but I've been an Astros fan long enough to know that you're not done at the All-Star Break, either. (This year's team excepted. Lordy, they were bad.)

79

So it's just a form of the "Fair Tax" plus a VAT

Funny, I seem to recall people being utter cunts (yes, that term is deserved) to Gabe for saying that Cain's plan called for a VAT.  I do not recall anyone apologizing for so doing.

(If someone did and I missed the apology, my apologies for that)

80

so we've gotten 2 replies from here:

- you're pro-Romney!

- you're pro-Perry!

okay...

Posted by: RINO Vice President For Life AuthorLMendez

Well, only a month ago if you didn't genuflect at the mention of Palin you were a misogynist RINO ELITIST what rapes small woodland creatures for sport.  This is pretty tame by AoSHQ standards.

81 geez another post deleted from History?

82 People - Newt is NOT a small government conservative. Note the absence of government agencies closed during his speakership. Newt is a "I am a really smart guy so trust me" kind of conservative.

83 Com'on y'all know it: you want some Newty-pie!!!

84
Human Cain's indian name is All Over The Map.

85

The scary thing is that it's true. I mean, I'm seriously considering Newt Gingrich for cryin' out loud.

If it comes down to Win with Romney or Lose with Newt, what will conservatives choose?

86 sock off

87 Well, only a month ago if you didn't genuflect at the mention of Palin you were a misogynist RINO ELITIST what rapes small woodland creatures for sport.  This is pretty tame by AoSHQ standards.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 20, 2011 02:40 PM (LHi9T)

meh, good point

88 77
yeah, Newt is closing the gap, for sure.

if this was a horse race, Newt'd be comin' 'round the bend.

He's a mudder, his father was a mudder and his mother was a mudder.

Posted by: soothsayer at October 20, 2011 02:38 PM (sqkOB)

Yeah.  Newt.  Sitting all snuggly on the couch with Nanci Pelosi lecturing us on global warming.  Not "no" but "FUCK YOU IN THE FACE NO"

89 I'm a Newt guy at this moment

Yeah, he sounds great in the debates, but don't forget that Newtie backed Dede Scozefrewafzava. That wasn't too very long ago. We are ****ed.

90 Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at October 20, 2011 02:35 PM (0q2P7)

I think the tax lawyers would have a field day with that.
For example, how does one define/measure half of the Citizens?

91 Posted by: tangonine at October 20, 2011 02:32 PM (x3YFz)

How does pointing this or anything out about Cain equate to supporting Perry?

92 Welcome to Ace of Rick Perry.

FFS.  I dropped $100 to Ace (didn't eve get a fucking thank you e-mail) last week and this is the constant perry perry perry shit I have to put up with? 

Well. 

Fuck you.  With Satan's Hammer of Blood.

Glad I got that off my chest.  short story is I've given up here.  Wish I could take that $100 back.

Totally! This fucking blog needs to be more ignorant of Cain's ineptitude! Fucking Perry!!!

93

People - Newt is NOT a small government conservative. Note the absence of government agencies closed during his speakership

You mean with the Democrat White House? Probably 0.

94 I shot an arrow from my longbow. It sales through the air and hits a vat of apples and oranges.

95

But Cain's version....Empowerment Zone....a distinction that would be awarded to a depressed geographic area [such as Detroit] giving them tax breaks, so they are basically getting preferential treatment for screwing up their city with failed liberal policies....and getting rewarded for it.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at October 20, 2011 02:37 PM (3b0c5)

THIS.  Places like Detroit screwed themselves up.  If they can't rise out of it, then let them rust.  If people want to waller in the mud with pigs, then let them.  We shouldn't be responsible for bathing them and giving then nice clean clothes to wear afterwards.  I've got zero sympathy for places like Detroit.  For those of you moron who haven't been there - it's worse than you could imagine.

96 98 Posted by: tangonine at October 20, 2011 02:32 PM (x3YFz)

How does pointing this or anything out about Cain equate to supporting Perry?

Posted by: DrewM. at October 20, 2011 02:42 PM (2f1Rs)

You're just mad about me calling you out on the Cain post on abortion.  Stop it.

97 For the record, since Cain's "Empowerment Zone" provision has been publicly disclosed on his website for a long time now and since he referred to "people at the poverty level" in general and not just those who live in Empowerment Zones, I presume the post-debate quote is referring to something different.

I honestly don't know what the hell the 9-9-9 plan entails at this point. And I don't think he does either.

98 I don't see anything about a free 2 liter bottle of Pepsi with this plan.

99 mallimutt, Just curious, but how many ( if any) of those deductions that you mentioned are new with this administration?

100 101 I shot an arrow from my longbow. It sales through the air and hits a vat of apples and oranges.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at October 20, 2011 02:44 PM (ieDPL)

"sails"

english class was tough!

101 another blue on blue thread.  I'm out.

102 Well, he's still quite popular despite all these missteps. Perhaps Cain is the Antichrist?

103 If it comes down to Win with Romney or Lose with Newt, what will conservatives choose?

Dude, I'm gettin' to the point where I'm believing that, if Mitt is the nominee, we'll see a third party by 2016 at the latest. I used to think it was hyperbole, but I'm starting to get the same feeling I got when the Tea Party decided they were going to primary incumbents.

104

Yeah. Newt. Sitting all snuggly on the couch with Nanci Pelosi lecturing us on global warming. Not "no" but "FUCK YOU IN THE FACE NO"

Posted by: tangonine at October 20, 2011 02:42 PM (x3YFz)

Soooo, you're for that proven conservative Mitt then, or the guy who can't tie his shoes once you get him out of Austin?

105 108 Sales & Vat? More is going on here then you thunkded.

106 McCain did it for him

Me too.

107 Perhaps Cain is the Antichrist?

Hush.

108 We're going to get stuck with Mitt. Fuck.

109

>>>yeah, Newt is closing the gap, for sure.

Give Newt 10 minutes as the front runner and everyone will remember why we wrote him off a decade ago.

He's not a real option. He does debates and speaking engagements for a living. Of course he's good at them.

Of all the candidates, Perry has the best record on keeping taxes low and job creation. Two things that will be the main theme of the 2012 general election.

I  speak only for myself, but I firmly believe he can get better at debates as the campaign moves forward.

I was open to Cain and actually pleased with his debate performances, but over the past two weeks I've come to the conclusion that he isn't ready for a presidential campaign.

He should run for Senate in GA first.

110 Posted by: tangonine at October 20, 2011 02:44 PM (x3YFz)

I hate to break it to you but I don't even remember reading a comment from you.

If it was as vacuous as that reply, I can see why it was so forgettable.

111 It's just you.  Herman Cain is the best of the bunch.

112

Well, only a month ago if you didn't genuflect at the mention of Palin you were a misogynist RINO ELITIST what rapes small woodland creatures for sport.  This is pretty tame by AoSHQ standards.

I really think we need to work together and find a candidate who can represent all our interests.

You're still a misogynist RINO elistist what rapes small woodland creatures though.

113 I really want a flat income tax, at a reasonable rate, on income from all sources.  I do still want a standard deduction for the cost of living since you can't get blood from a turnip.

Now to go read the comments.

114

96 I'm a Newt guy at this moment

Yeah, he sounds great in the debates, but don't forget that Newtie backed Dede Scozefrewafzava. That wasn't too very long ago. We are ****ed.

----------

I can't believe folks are forgetting about Newt quitting as Speaker, and quitting his Congressional seat....at the same time!

He quit from the highest office that he ever achieved.....and some of you folks think that the American people will elect him to an even higher office?

Dream on!....The media will remind us of this every f'kn day next year, if Newtie gets the nom.

 

115 yup stuck with mitt. picking the next in line. t'was the way it would always be.

116 Dude, I'm gettin' to the point where I'm believing that, if Mitt is the nominee, we'll see a third party by 2016 at the latest. I used to think it was hyperbole, but I'm starting to get the same feeling I got when the Tea Party decided they were going to primary incumbents.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 20, 2011 02:47 PM (bjRNS)

If conservatives can't get a conservative nominated in the GOP, they sure as hell won't get one elected via a third party. They'll just ensure Democrat victory.

In this case, I can't blame The Establishment if Romney is the default nominee. I blame the candidates.  

117 I propose a 9% sales tax on vats.

118 Ron Paul and a conservative congress. What's not to love?

119 120 Posted by: tangonine at October 20, 2011 02:44 PM (x3YFz)

I hate to break it to you but I don't even remember reading a comment from you.

If it was as vacuous as that reply, I can see why it was so forgettable.

Posted by: DrewM. at October 20, 2011 02:50 PM (2f1Rs)

I came back just because I KNEW... and I was right.  Nicely done on the personal insult.  I'll pull the passive-aggressive card and say: fo guck yourself.

I is what I is.

120

Again, why is it that any criticism of Cain automatically equates to support of Romney?

Because an army of paid shills has descended upon us looking to nuke every single candidate consecutively, and they're about as honest and genuine as their spokesman.

I don't like 9-9-9, but I like Cain. We have good candidates. Any of these guys can beat Obama.

But on every single thread, for every candidate, you've got romneybots infilitrating and splitting the base, demoralizing everyone, and declaring everyone disqualified.

121 I still don't know what the big deal is about making the poor pay some taxes.
1 Vote, 1 Tax Rate!

122

I would sooner be goverend by the first 10 non-trolls on a comment thread than by 10 of the GOP field.  Posted by: LibertarianJim

Yesss!

123 In this case, I can't blame The Establishment if Romney is the default nominee. I blame the candidates. 
Posted by: CJ at October 20, 2011 02:51 PM (9KqcB)

Exactly.

So far every truuuu conservative has been a bust. Not with "independents" or "RINO scum" but with the most conservative part of the party. If you can't get in front of Mitt Romney and stay there, that's on you not THE ESTABLISHMENT (TM).

124 Are we up to 10 now?

125

polynikes: #16 spongeworthy have you ever bothered to read a response to the criticisms posted by rdbrewer?

You're kidding here, right? I mean, I know you're doing your part to point out the unfairness of rdb's attack posts in the sidebar and all, but I called the guy a fucking liar.

And before you start thinking that's weak tea, I also told him he does attack blurbs like a liberal.

Top that.

126

We should probably stop being surprised.

Obviously, Cain never thought he had a real chance to win, and planned accordingly.

Posted by: CJ at October 20, 2011 02:29 PM (9KqcB)

I wonder if some folks said the same thing about Obama right up until the day after the election in 2008? That's what scares me...it was just as obvious Obama had no business ever being near the presidency well ahead of time, too. But he got elected anyway. I hope like hell the GOP is not about to make the same stupid mistake with Cain, and we end up with either a different incompetent in the White House or 4 more years of current dipstick-in-chief.

127

That's the attitude I'm banking on!

Posted by: President BHO at October 20, 2011 02:39 PM (PReJ3)

 

Good, cause you're going to get an epic LOAD of it, numbnuts.  And with your track record, I'm sure it will work out just as well as all the rest of your dumbass plans. 

 

128 But on every single thread, for every candidate, you've got romneybots infilitrating and splitting the base,

You don't need infiltrators. Cain is doing a fine job of eliminating himself.

129 If conservatives can't get a conservative nominated in the GOP, they sure as hell won't get one elected via a third party. They'll just ensure Democrat victory.

That's not the only issue. If a third party shows up and hurts the GOP too badly, I'm sure all the apparatchiks that I hate will jump ship to the new party, and it wouldn't be any different. But I'm such a downer today, I should probably be drinkin'.

In this case, I can't blame The Establishment if Romney is the default nominee. I blame the candidates.

That's true to some extent ... but whose choice was it to accelerate the Primary? Whose choice was it to run a zillion televised debates? I can't help but feel that the terrain was tilted towards Romney, and all the rest of the candidates have been running uphill.

130 Fuck Romney. Internment Camps for the traitors.

131 For example, how does one define/measure half of the Citizens?

Define = Census.
Measure = SS# which is attached to every individual tax currently.

132 140 But on every single thread, for every candidate, you've got romneybots infilitrating and splitting the base,

You don't need infiltrators. Cain is doing a fine job of eliminating himself.

Posted by: Barbarian at October 20, 2011 02:57 PM (EL+OC)

you have apparently been insulated from polling numbers.  Cain is emerging as The Man.

133
another blue on blue thread.  I'm out.

Posted by: tangonine at October 20, 2011 02:46 PM (x3YFz)

Yep -- this sh*t is getting old.

If it comes down to Win with Romney or Lose with Newt, what will conservatives choose?

Dude, I'm gettin' to the point where I'm believing that, if Mitt is the nominee, we'll see a third party by 2016 at the latest. I used to think it was hyperbole, but I'm starting to get the same feeling I got when the Tea Party decided they were going to primary incumbents.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at October 20, 2011 02:47 PM (bjRNS)

Romney is a commie and I'm outta voting GOP if he's the candidate. You don't housebreak a dog by petting him for pissing on the carpet.

134

But on every single thread, for every candidate, you've got romneybots infilitrating and splitting the base, demoralizing everyone, and declaring everyone disqualified.

This is going on, but there are only about 2 Romney-bots. I suspect it is the Perry-or-nobody crew. Is Andy one of the 2 Romney-bots?

135 you have apparently been insulated from polling numbers. Cain is emerging as The Man. Posted by: tangonine at October 20, 2011 02:58 PM (x3YFz) And some of us are trying to point out that he has severe problems that might cripple him in a general election and thus crew the pooch and get obama re-elected.

136

119.....Of all the candidates, Perry has the best record on keeping taxes low and job creation. Two things that will be the main theme of the 2012 general election.

Agreed. Those are the two things that should be the main theme.

But unfortunately people are falling for the media narrative that he has to be a Master Debater.

137 you have apparently been insulated from polling numbers.  Cain is emerging as The Man.

Was that poll taken before or after he was caught lying like a dog?

138 Come on. Join the dark side with me and Christie, Pawlenty, Bork, Flake, Issa, McCotter, Blunt , Cochran, Coleman, etc. etc. They all can't be socialist Washington insider establishment RINOs.

139

You gotta stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

or

How I learned to listen to my betters because they know what's best for me.

140 So far every truuuu conservative has been a bust. Not with "independents" or "RINO scum" but with the most conservative part of the party. If you can't get in front of Mitt Romney and stay there, that's on you not THE ESTABLISHMENT (TM).

You're trying to be too logical here. If I were going to place blame, I'd probably place it on the conservative base for being too picky. They've been bouncing around between candidates like Lindsey Lohan on a meth bender.

But like all people who attract drama, they're not going to accept blame. They'll blame the establishment, and react poorly.

141

Romney is a commie and I'm outta voting GOP if he's the candidate. You don't housebreak a dog by petting him for pissing on the carpet.

But it was his turn to pee on the carpet!

142 Agreed. Those are the two things that should be the main theme. But unfortunately people are falling for the media narrative that he has to be a Master Debater. Posted by: Up Perryscope! Keep your eyes on the prize! at October 20, 2011 03:00 PM (3b0c5) NObody is falling for anything. have you watched the debates at all? He comes across as sour, one tracked, and small.

143 147 you have apparently been insulated from polling numbers. Cain is emerging as The Man.

Posted by: tangonine at October 20, 2011 02:58 PM (x3YFz)

And some of us are trying to point out that he has severe problems that might cripple him in a general election and thus crew the pooch and get obama re-elected.

Posted by: nevergiveup at October 20, 2011 03:00 PM (i6RpT)

I have to say that I recognize that even Herman didn't expect he'd be leading.  He's struggling to keep up.  But at the end of the day:  honesty will win.  You KNOW where this guy's heart is, you know he's conservative and he'll uphold the tenets of our founding documents.  He has this:  Integrity.

I cannot say that about mittens or perry.  I trust Cain.  It's really, really, just that simple.

144 Someone tell me again why we don't like Santorum?

145 >>>But on every single thread, for every candidate, you've got romneybots infilitrating and splitting the base, demoralizing everyone, and declaring everyone disqualified.

If you seriously believe this you're an idiot.  The posters who drive the conversation around here have BEEN here for YEARS.  The ones who are pro-Romney right now -- like me, JackStraw, polynikes, etc. -- have been morons in good standing for over half a DECADE now.  Nobody's paying us shit to say shit.  We have our opinions and they are what they are.  And because YOU can't handle them (that is to say, because you recoil from the manifest truth of these criticisms of, say, Cain) you start shrieking about how people must be 'on the payroll' or something.

Pussy.

146

But like all people who attract drama, they're not going to accept blame. They'll blame the establishment, and react poorly.

Another way to look it at; that's called 'keeping your eyes on the prize'.

Of course we will.

Because we can and because it continues to serve our interest and the interests of the country.

147 And some of us are trying to point out that he has severe problems that might cripple him in a general election and thus crew the pooch and get obama re-elected.

Posted by: nevergiveup at October 20, 2011 03:00 PM (i6RpT)

 

Which is why no one should get tooooo distracted by the Presidential race.  I would RATHER have Obama in there than Romney as long as we put enough true conservatives into Senate and House seats.  If (R)'s top 55 in the Senate and increase their lead in House Obama becomes a burlap bag kitten in a pen full of pitbulls.  That'd be good TV, right up until they finish the public colonoscopy on his administration and arrest them all. 

Romney can go choke on a dick.

148 At least if Bin Romney wins I get to watch the Republican establishment be dismantled brick by brick and tossed into the dustbin of history with the Whigs.

149 Well, he's still quite popular despite all these missteps. Perhaps Cain is the Antichrist?

Posted by: The Mega Independent at October 20, 2011 02:46 PM (E9Jw/)

Well, that's a new theory at least. :-)

150

 The ones who are pro-Romney right now -- like me, JackStraw, polynikes, etc. -- have been morons in good standing for over half a DECADE now. generally the same squishes around here who always pissed me off.

FIFY.

151 #137 your spongeworthiness I obviously misunderstood your #16 post. I shall not let it happen again.

152

But unfortunately people are falling for the media narrative that he has to be a Master Debater.

Posted by: Up Perryscope! Keep your eyes on the prize! at October 20, 2011 03:00 PM (3b0c5)

Yup.  And afterall, we should have a candidate who can speechify as well as Obama.  That's what's important.  Where would we be today without a President that can make people faint with only the power of their eloquent speech. 

Substance and record are nothing to compare with a master debater, or a cunning linguist for that matter.

153

I eagerly await another explanation for why Reagan was really a moderate RINO from Polynikes.

Look - I don't hate you guys.

But I'm not confused - we've never really been on the same side in terms of the outcomes we are looking for.

154 164 I am a Master Debater. Can I haz the nomination now?

155

If it comes down to Win with Romney or Lose with Newt, what will conservatives choose?

 

Based on the predominately "Anyone but Obama" sentiment from the polls....I think even Newt would beat him. So your choice would be Romney or Newt, not win with Romney or lose with Newt.

156

By the way:

  We have our opinions and they are what they are.  And because YOU can't handle them (that is to say, because you recoil from the manifest truth of these criticisms of, say, Cain) you start shrieking about how people must be 'on the payroll' or something.

Tu qoque on all that 'if you believe/you're a moron' stuff.

I'm not even a Cain guy. I just don't want any more of the sabotage suicide-squad bullshit demoralizing us on anyone who's remotely actually conservative, because they don't debate as spiffy as Mittens on CNN.

157
Cain has replaced Perry as the "anybody but Mitt" flavor of the week candidate. Thus, the Romneybots here must destroy him.

Cain is doing a great job of tripping over his dick all by himself.

This blue on blue $hit is about as classy (and productive) as the religion threads at Hot Air. How about something better?

158 166 164 I am a Master Debater. Can I haz the nomination now?

Posted by: Pee Wee Herman at October 20, 2011 03:10 PM (ieDPL)

Sure thing.  The haircut and suit are nice touches also.  Lose the bowtie though.

159 157 >>>But on every single thread, for every candidate, you've got romneybots infilitrating and splitting the base, demoralizing everyone, and declaring everyone disqualified.

If you seriously believe this you're an idiot.  The posters who drive the conversation around here have BEEN here for YEARS.  The ones who are pro-Romney right now -- like me, JackStraw, polynikes, etc. -- have been morons in good standing for over half a DECADE now.  Nobody's paying us shit to say shit.  We have our opinions and they are what they are.  And because YOU can't handle them (that is to say, because you recoil from the manifest truth of these criticisms of, say, Cain) you start shrieking about how people must be 'on the payroll' or something.

Pussy.

Posted by: Jeff B. at October 20, 2011 03:04 PM (bbxN5)

Jeff, and you'll notice I've never thrown you under the bus.... I just like Cain.  /shrug  I've been here for years as well.

We just need to keep the in-fighting on a level at which people won't just say "FUCK YOU!" to AoS.  Resepct for opinions... hard to come by here, lately.  Ace needs to step the fuck up.  Like.  Now.

160 Does anyone have Sarah Palin's phone number?

161 I trust Cain. It's really, really, just that simple. Posted by: tangonine at October 20, 2011 03:04 PM (x3YFz) Fine I trust him also I think. But before he can govern he has to get elected and if slips in the General Election like he has in the Primaries so far it could be fatal and that means 4 more years of this commie bastard.

162

154.....He comes across as sour, one tracked, and small.

Yeah, he doesn't want to be there at all....and he's been told to "focus" and "attack" his fellow Republicans. He hates it and it shows.

It's like watching diehard John Mclane having to stand up and participate in a verbal firing squad. Yippie Iyo kaiyay, motherf'ker.

It's painful to watch. It's what we get for letting the media trap up into these dumbass debates.

Perry has the best record of being a fiscal, cost-cutting conservative. He's pro-2nd Amendment, pro-Tort Reform, pro-Right-to-work, pro-Life, anti-Obamacare, anti-EPA, secure the f'kn border......but we are willing to throw him aside because of these dumbass debates.

Well, I guess we can tell the media "You win, again. Mission accomplished!" 

163

This blue on blue $hit is about as classy (and productive) as the religion threads at Hot Air. How about something better?

Frankly I agree. Personally I don't think Cain will last till January.

If he does, I'm behind him 100%.

But I don't think he will.

Ace obviously doesn't like him and I'm somewhat sympathetic on why - I think Ace wants to like Perry. I don't think it does anybody any favors to bash him. Let him do his thing and see where it goes.

Fuck the egos. Cain supporters and Perry supporters are not enemies. We're 95% in agreement.

So is Mitt Romney too, but 83% of that is bald faced lies.

164 176 ....*media trap us

165

WE need to have a number of things debated in this country... and not let the LEFT decide them for us..

1. Is it the Governments Role to make everything Fair through taxes, or is a tax there simply to finance the Government... ie, should the Tax structure be a method of CONTROL on a Free people?

2. Can a Government whose founding docment says the People have the 'Right to petition for redress', have sovereign immunity?

3. Is Law and Order, and the equal application of the law, a guiding principal in a Republic? or not? and what is the Penalty for a DA or Government Official NOT enforcing the Law and getting people killed... if we are a Republic, with a Right to Petition for Redress?

166 Is Andy one of the 2 Romney-bots?

No, I'm on Team Perry. For now.

But I'm not going to try to blow sunshine up anyone's ass and say he didn't suck in the debates and miss a golden opportunity to rid us of Romney. If his flat tax plan sucks, I'll do posts on it just like I have on 9-9-9, even though he's "my guy".

And don't get me wrong, I think 9-9-9 is ridiculous and Cain runs a huge risk of flaming out, but I'd still vote for him over Romney if it came down to those 2 choices.

167

Well, I guess we can tell the media "You win, again. Mission accomplished!" 

Posted by: Up Perryscope! Keep your eyes on the prize! at October 20, 2011 03:16 PM (3b0c5)

What the media learned with teh Fred, they are now perfecting with Perry.

168

As others have indicated the exemptions for poverty level were clearly indicated in the plan details both in the revenue nuetrailty white paper as well as the tables at his web site. Likewise he has clearly indicate the 999 is merely a precursor to Fair Tax one of the chief components being the prebate on purchases up to the poverty level. Why the things that made the Fair Tax attractive would not be included into the 999 plan is a mystery. A mystery in that only a fool would leave them out of the 999 plan in order to ensure its a posionous proposition, thus ruining his/her chances at the POTUS prize. But I suppose the site mentalists here with their snark filled wisdom find themselves SHOCKED SHOCKED I tells ya that any similarity might even exist.

Why this is surprising or an attempt to show Cain as prevaricator or a person who otherwise is making crap up on the fly says volumes about the site and the authors Andy, Gabe, and Ace et. al.. (A site I used to have a great deal of respect for.) One could argue he has been poor at communicating the plan details but to impugn him as making stuff up doesn't sit very well considering the alternatives (who actually do have an honesty/credibility issue) is likely Mitt Romney or Rick Bush.

 

 

 

 

169

Ace went nuclear on Bachmann.

What good could it do, she was already in a free-fall to 2%. It was irrelevant.

That's why it was largely safe (and no doubt, cathartic) for Ace to finally be able to unload what he'd been thinking of her. Again, I'm somewhat sympathetic. But it also does no real good, and alienates the 2% who liked her - she's good on some issues and no one is perfect.

This is the army we have, let's win with it.

Same shit about Perry people. If you really think he's finished, STFU and let him finish.

If you keep chomping at the bit to tell us he's finished, you know I've got to wonder.

170 Well let's look at the Camellia Sinensis list.

Foster Mom Purity score 10. DQ'd herself by freebasing Tardisil.



Cain Purity score 6. DQs by, playing the race card against Perry, not knowing very much about foreign policy, supporting a chruched up variant of the same progressive BS tax system we have now with a bonus VAT.


Perry Purity Score 4. Can't be bothered to appear competent in a debate. In state tuition for aliens not legally present in the US whose qualification is they have been successfully breaking federal law in Texas for years without getting caught.  Apparently I'm heartless for noting legal immigrants or US citizens, paying more while someone here illegally paying less is NOT OK.
 
Newt Purity score 3. Ethanol, Right wing social engineering, AGW. Came down on the wrong side of 3 major issues inside of a year. Dude, common, that's my bacon your subsidizing to unaffordability.

Romney Purity score 2. Same stuff + Romneycare which he apparently still loves.

Huntsman purity score 1. Dude? Wrong party.

What's wrong with Santorum again?

171

Put plainly, the opening post was retarded and displayed Andy's ignorance moreso than Cain's dishonesty (unfamiliarity with his plan).

 

 

172 <i><b>Paul on Thursday unveiled a 60-second ad that cast the White House hopefuls as spend-happy politicians who are not true conservatives.</i></b>

<scroll>SUCK IT RINO'S</scroll>

173 formatting fail. GD Ace of chisels and tablets.

174 What's wrong with Santorum again?

He's a proven loser, and comes off as a dick, but mostly, the loser stuff.

Is he polling above 1%?

175 Does anyone have Sarah Palin's phone number?

I bet it doesn't begin with 999

176 Sparks are flying today. Substance and record are nothing to compare with a master debater, or a cunning linguist for that matter. Posted by: Havedash That is really a sad truth. What looks good sells and that is exactly how we got the O.

177 He just hadn't said anything about it? The attacks - from the left as well as the right - have been coming for weeks, and Cain is - oh, yeah - just getting around to addressing it now?

178 Any of these guys - or gal - would be better - much, much better - to have in the White House than the fascist prick who resides there now. Provided we have a Congress elected that's conservative enough to keep them from being able to sign their most hare-brained ideas into law (and I'm including Perry, who I'm supporting for the moment in that...I think he's the best person running, but he'll still serve up some dumb ideas, I'm sure). I think even Mitt, who I detest personally, would be mostly kinda sorta okay/non-catastrophic with the right Congress to keep him in check. Seems to me we need to expend a lot (most?) of our energy on making sure we get the best House and Senate possible (also just in case the SCoaMF gets re-elected, too).

So, yeah, if it's Obama vs Perry or Romney or Cain or Newt or Paul the Insane or any of the others the others trailing along behind those, I'll press the touch screen for the one with the "R" beside their name. Not on some 3rd Party waste of a vote guy either.

Obama must lose in 2012 for no other reason than we have to keep him from ruining the Supreme Court for another generation or two with another 1-3 hardcore leftist nominees. That alone is enough to make me vote for anyone the GOP nominates. Unless you are thinking the courageous GOP caucus in the Senate (even if the GOP wins a majority) would stand up and stop a SC nominee? No, me either. Goddam Republican presidents are bad enough about putting leftists onto the SC, but Obama's nominees would be a helluva lot worse.

179 Why the fuck we have a field this weak, I don't know.

Disregarding Mittens, we have Perry, with extensive experience in government who still comes off as articulate as my cat.

We have Cain, who has no experience in government, and is all kinds of articulate except he can't keep his story straight and his plans suck.

We have Newt, whose career is studded with failures and stupid "reaches across the aisle." I will NEVER forget that couch he sat on with Pelosi talking about AGW. A consigliere, yes, but he does NOT have what it takes to be the Don.

Then it's "Crazy Eyes" Bachmann who fears needles full of retard virus, Santorum who can't even win his own state, and Ron Paul! who fears the Joooooos.

Is there no candidate out there who can rid us of the SCOAMF?

180

SarahÂ’s not coming back until Ace apologizes for being a dick.

181

Here's my campaign slogan.  It may not fit on a bumper sticker, but it happens to be true today, just like it was a month ago, and will be six months from now:

"Perry in 2012...better than Romney, and unlike the rest of those clowns, actually has a chance to be nominated."

182 This may not matter.

If bloomberg's latest story is accurate, Cain has staffers quitting because Cain hasn't even registered for the ballots of several critical primary states.

He is selling a lot of books and giving motivational speeches for fee, but he's also not running hard enough in the early states, and it's not clear that he's actually trying to win.

I think he's really letting the conservative movement down with his repeated endorsement of Romney.  Sure, Romney owns a lot of Clear channel, and Cain is a radio personality, but I honestly don't get it.

If he's going to run to introduce himself to a wider audience, but doesn't plan to win, that's actually not a big deal to me.  But endorsing the RINO over a 95% conservative governor?  That's just hard to understand. 

183 "Is there no candidate out there who can rid us of the SCOAMF?

Posted by: SGT Dan at October 20, 2011 03:49 PM (jWvfJ)"

If you think Perry is getting much better at debates now that his governor work is in the off season, and he's also doing great in interviews with fairly hostile liberals, then you might think he's actually totally capable.

There are only two debates between Obama, and Perry does really well in debates and discussions against liberals, in my opinion.

Perry isn't my ideal.  I only agree with him on 90% of stuff.  But man I hope he's the guy instead of Romney, whom I don't trust on anything.

I also think Romney vs Obama will not be a clear choice, as they both promise to run the entitlements really well, and sometimes Romney even promises MORE entitlement spending, such as promising to reverse the half trillion$ cut from medicare to fund Obamacare (but not promising to repeal Obamacare!)

Obama can smear Romney from every direction, especially as a flip flopper, and while he can smear Perry too, Perry has a much better and simpler rebuttal.  JOBS.  The guy knows how to do his job in a way that leads you more jobs.

A perry vs Obama general election pits the best elements of conservatism vs the worst elements of liberalism.  A Romney vs Obama election is just a bullshitting contest.

184 Are you guys new to sales taxes or something? They always have poverty exemptions, this isn't some sinister secret they are trying to keep hidden away. Good lord, just because he's not your Giuliani doesn't mean you have to pull this crap.

185

"If bloomberg's latest story is accurate, Cain has staffers quitting because Cain hasn't even registered for the ballots of several critical primary states."

Isn't the cutoff the end of this month to be on the ballot in places like Florida?

 

186 He is selling a lot of books and giving motivational speeches for fee, but he's also not running hard enough in the early states, and it's not clear that he's actually trying to win.

I think he's really letting the conservative movement down with his repeated endorsement of Romney.  Sure, Romney owns a lot of Clear channel, and Cain is a radio personality, but I honestly don't get it.

If he's going to run to introduce himself to a wider audience, but doesn't plan to win, that's actually not a big deal to me.  But endorsing the RINO over a 95% conservative governor?  That's just hard to understand. 

Posted by: Dustin at October 20, 2011 04:36 PM (fF625)

I was telling my wife last night about Cain's latest gaffe (I forget which one) and also about him having billed a wad to his books to his campaign (to hand out at appearances, I guess?), and my wife, who tends to give everyone the benefit of the doubt a lot longer then she really should and way longer than I do, says, "Sounds like he's running to sell his book." That thought had crossed my mind as well...as the gaffes and examples of lack of preparation continue to pile up, one does begin to wonder if he got in this for some reason other than trying to win. I sure hope that's not the case, not for his sake, but for the sake of the party and of beating the SCoaMF.

187 "Are you guys new to sales taxes or something? They always have poverty exemptions, this isn't some sinister secret they are trying to keep hidden away. Good lord, just because he's not your Giuliani doesn't mean you have to pull this crap.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 20, 2011 04:45 PM (r4wIV"

I can tolerate it to some extent.  But Cain's plan is not nearly the panacea he's claimed.  It's even a bit of cop out answer to many important questions, and sometimes I don't think Cain even understands it, such as when he dismisses the VAT criticism instead of explaining why it should be that way.

I think a national sales tax could be OK, though it's obviously dead on arrival in congress.  I wouldn't mind not taxing basic food and clothing under $10 and stuff like that as a poverty exception, I guess.

I dunno.  I feel like we'd obviously get screwed once the feds got into several more revenue streams than they are already in.

But here's the bottom line.  DC has a spending problem.  Not a taxing problem.  Let's fix the spending before we spend years fighting to fix the taxing.

188 btw, Perry's 9-9-9 is called a balanced budget amendment, and while it doesn't work in Cali because they have a stupid way to implement it, it works, albeit with tons of hard work and hassle, in Texas.

It's embarrassing that we need one, but we need one, and we need to do it Texas style. I have zero faith in this country's politicians to stay conservative for very long.  If the GOP wins big in 2012, we need to cement that victory with a balanced budget amendment done right, so when they creep left again, the damage is limited.

This will be the political fight of our lifetimes.  It could even make the president a one termer.  It will lead to riots and whines and screams.  Flip floppers are too weak to even try it.

189 Yeesh, he's awful. Nearly perfect Veep for Mitt, however. The only guy in the GOP who makes Willard look good.

190 What's wrong with Santorum again?

He's a proven loser, and comes off as a dick, but mostly, the loser stuff.
Is he polling above 1%?

Posted by: toby928© at October 20, 2011 03:33 PM (GTbGH)

toby928, I've asked that same question in the past (what's wrong with Santorum).  You and Mallamutt have pointed out the "loser" angle.  I agree that he comes across as condescending.  But having "lost" does not automatically confer the status of being a "loser."   He is, without question, the proven truest conservative on the stage.  And that, I guess, assures his unelectability; he could not win the mushy middle. 

I'll support his campaign, but hold my nose and vote for whoever ends up running in the general.  I'm so tired of holding my nose at the polls...

191 Barack Obama is a studdering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

192 Herman Cain's response to everything seems to be "well, I'll look at the facts and then make a decision." Except that when you're running for President you're already kinda sorta supposed to have done that. Being President *should be* about applying principles, not about pulling ideas out of your ass. That's why I call Herman Cain "The Nancy Pelosi Candidate - you have to vote for him to see what's inside."

193 "I'll support his campaign, but hold my nose and vote for whoever ends up running in the general.  I'm so tired of holding my nose at the polls...

Posted by: EyeTest at October 20, 2011 05:17 PM (ReC4P)
"

I don't see anything wrong with that.  I can understand a conservative selecting Santorum simply to send a message that this is what they believe.

You have to admit, both he and Bachmann come across very poorly sometimes.  Just annoying, even when if I read the transcript of their comments they are actually great.

Romney hopes the conservative are split like they were in 2008, so the establishment's guy wins because they are disciplined enough to hold together on super tuesday.

He can't win if any other candidate gets the right wingers to rally.  Even a mere half of the party is double what Mitt will ever have in true support.  Granted, all Mitt really needs, to seal the deal, is for democrats to vote in our primary, and that will help Mitt a lot, since he's probably the one they want to run against, and also is the one they could live with.

In this primary, every single voter is very important.  

Perry is wrong on a few issues, but that's over 20 years of fiscal conservatism from appropriations to selling Texas agriculture all over the planet, to running our leg, to running our agencies.  He has a great deal of experience and after all this time, is no worse than a 90% conservative.  His goofs are annoying, and his defense of them has been somewhat annoying, but if we all split or reject the 90% conservatives, we're left with Mitt, who is a 0% conservative because he has no true beliefs other than winning is good.

Cain is not serious, if he's still not registered on ballots, but is registered for paid speaking engagements in places that factor very little in the early primaries.  Plus his mistakes on foreign policy are just too much to forgive, and his near endorsement of Romney makes zero sense.  That's why I'm back to Perry.  I think he's the 90% guy we can rally around.  It's a tolerable compromise.

194 It's becoming painfully obvious a lot of folks are trying to influence who the Republican candidate will be.  Fox is pushing Romney and the cobloggers want Perry.  Well here's the poop. I don't like anything about Romney and have never been comfortable with him.  I was willing to give Perry a good look but after watching the debates he looks like a arguementative rude little prick.  I like Cain.  I'd be glad to sit down and have a drink with the guy.  Am I ready to vote for him.  Not quite yet. I respect Newt's intellect.  I can't get excited about the rest of the field.  Newt is the only one who is taking the tact that we should be attacking Obama and promoting not ripping up our team.  I haven't decided who I will back but frankly I resent the multiple onslaught on Cain by our side.He needs polish and I hope he is ready for prime time if he gets the nod.

195 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

196 'made up on the fly' FTW

197 I was very happy to search out this web-site.I needed to thanks to your time for this excellent read!! I definitely enjoying each little little bit of it and I have you bookmarked to check out new stuff you weblog post.

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200

One key factor in all these alternatives to the current tax system is that all those freeloading turds out there, 49 percent of which pay nothing for taxes at all, would finally have to kick in something to justify their existence. 

 

If they are still getting a free ride, then there is really no point to screwing with the existing system.  We will still be taxed, but at supposedly lower and more inventive rates, and the poor downtrodden who get all the free assistance that is extorted from those of us who have a useful function in life, will get to fucking skate some more.

 

 

201

I don't think his supporters are going to be happy that inner-cities are the only ones getting the breaks.  Guess thats what he meant by this... 

"Herman Cain has made the cause of civil rights a major issue. Herman Cain favors Federal Government intervention in the work place on the behalf of blacks and minorities."