1 What country on the planet comes the closest these days to that experience?

2

John Derbyshire spotted and wrote about this paragraph a long time ago.

He loved it.

However...He also made the point that the average British subject hated it.  Medical emergencies and poor health could lead to misery and suffering.  Etc., etc., etc.,

He noted that when given a chance, those British subjects happily and enthusiastically voted in all sorts of expansions in the welfare state.

As did we.

That's why this coming collapse is going to be so hard to prevent.

 

3 It can't be overstated how much World War I totally screwed up the whole world. It killed off a whole generation of the bravest people in Europe, and was used by the survivors as a bludgeon to foist upon the world the nihilism and Nanny Stateism that is killing us today.

4 In its proper place, the federal government should be a distant entity far removed from the daily lives of the citizens of the states.  The Founders would never have imagined the day when the federal government would mandate educational curricula, enforce "diversity," prosecute mundane local crimes, impose direct income taxes, absorbe huge swaths of land in the states, and compel its subjects to purchase medical insurance.

5

Even today, who in the political class is willing to touch SS, Medicare and Medicaid?

Even the toughest budget hawks say don't fear if we don't raise the debt limit, because we can still pay off our bond holders and entitlements.  All we have to do is cut the rest of the budget by 44%.

OK, so we do that.  So what?  Ten years later, those entitlements won't have shrunk a whit.  They'll be expanding like crazy.  So we slash what to maintain them?  90% of the budget?  Ten years later, those entitlements are going to be even bigger.

They will consume everything. Defense and everything else.

We are doomed.

6 It can't be overstated how much World War I totally screwed up the whole world. It killed off a whole generation of the bravest people in Europe, and was used by the survivors as a bludgeon to foist upon the world the nihilism and Nanny Stateism that is killing us today.

I submit that the advent of modern media plays an equally large role.  In those days, you learned about your fellow man directly (those you knew) or read a newspaper, which many didn't.  A newspaper is hard to use to guide behavior.  Now media is seen by it's practitioners as a way to shape the behavior of others, i.e. to "make a difference".  Thus, the MFM and their insistence on teaching the great unwashed.  But their time too is coming to a close. 

7

On the other hand, a year ago, I never imagined that we would be able to take on the government unions either.

So... maybe not doomed.

Just in for a very, very tough fight, with the outcome very much in doubt.

8 Ah, yes, the opening page from A.J.P. Taylor's English History 1914-1945 (Oxford 1965) in the The Oxford History of England series.  I remember being struck by it when I first read it in 1969.  The transformation of both England and America as a result of the First World War was far more profound than people realized at the time, though Bertrand Russell wrote a much-neglected, though interesting, book Freedom vs. Organization (Norton 1962 orig. 1934) about how changes from 1814-1914 pave the way for the the regimentation of the nation in the First World War.  Alfred Gollin, eminent historian of early 20th century Britain with whom I studied, thought contra Lord Russell that the government's response to the war was decisive and resulted in the replacement of the values of liberty with those of a more regimented and socialized state. 

9
I remember when you could buy a big Hershey's bar for a nickel!

10 Thus, the MFM and their insistence on teaching the great unwashed.  But their time too is coming to a close. 

Posted by: pep at July 24, 2011 12:11 PM (6TB1Z)

If I may, I think that time has come and gone in that the MFM will never really go away. Those who continue to be fools and blindly accept whatever the MFM feeds them will always be around as well.

The internet and blogs like this continue to grow their audience and people who are willing are able to make up their own minds now.

11

Paradise Lost. It's getting back to that level that's the trick.

There are a few ways you can probably tell how much government interference you have in your life. How easy is it to buy booze? Ontario has government run beer stores and liquor stores. There's also road paintings on the street every 100 meters in my little town telling our stupid children which way to ride their bikes.

Steck, I think to get back to that level, you're probably moving to a primitive island nation or somewhere with a population under a few million. I'm going the South Korea route. I fell in love with those motorcycles racing through the streets, nearly hitting me multiple times, parking on sidewalks or whereever so restaurants could deliver any type of food you wanted, then came back a couple of hours later to pick up the plates with no tips. Brilliant. Simplistic. I could give you dozens of reasons it couldn't work in Canada and many liberal places in the US.

 

12
Model-T's cost $0.99!

13
You could get any color you wanted -- as long as it was black.

14
*Attention*

Incoming transmission from Moonbat One...

15
[redacted],

Before the deal to extend tax cuts for the wealthy passed last December, Bernie Sanders stood on the floor of the Senate and engaged in a real filibuster. He spoke for eight hours against the deal, making his opposition known to everyone in DC and around the country.

Now, as we close in on a deal that will potentially reduce Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits, I can't think of anyone better than Senator Sanders to help me express my personal opposition to that deal.

Join with Daily Kos and Senator Bernie Sanders in opposition to cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits. Senator Sanders will convey your concerns to the White House and congressional leaders in a way that no one else can.

Thanks for all you do,
Chris Bowers
Campaign Director, Daily Kos

16 Ginger Rogers had two left feet and was a racist.

17

Grandpa at July 24, 2011 12:21 PM (8++Is)

And nails were square, as God intended them to be, not these blasted round abombinations we have now days!

 

18
A pheasant in every pot.

A Volt in every driveway...with an Obama sticker on it...or else.

19 If I may, I think that time has come and gone in that the MFM will never really go away. Those who continue to be fools and blindly accept whatever the MFM feeds them will always be around as well.

Yes, that's true.  But historically the fools don't shape a society.  The elite does, whatever the elite is.  For the last 50 years, the elites (media, Hollywood, and the Dems) have set much of the agenda, while using the parasitic class as their nominal reason to grab power.  As the elite's power diminishes, so will their agenda, or so I hope. 

20 Yeah but 1914 was the age of TEH ROBBER BARRUNS where the rich stole from the poor and children died in the street and misery was upon the earth!  Oh teh horror!  You can't want to go back to that hellhole of paying 8% taxes? ??  THINK OF THE CHIIIIIIILLLLLLLLDDDDDDDRRRREEEEEEEENN

21 sorry forgot to put on the sock
supposed to come from Typical Stupid Prog

22

#8 billy bob   / All this could have been avoid if one prick named Teddy hadn't decided to run as a third party candidate, thus fucking the GOP and giving Wilson the election.

All true, but Teddy ran so the federal reserve would be guaranteed as both Teddy and Wilson had signed on.

 

23

I remember hauling a thirty five pound block of ice up five flights of stairs to put in our ice box.

Every other day, except on Sunday.

Nowadays, my worthless cake handed relations have iceboxes that make and crush and dispense ice with the push of a button.

That ice tastes funny.  I don't like it.

 

24

We are doomed.

Posted by: ed Monty at July 24, 2011 12:11 PM (Y2WVW)

FIFY

25
Model T's cost $825 in 1908...

67 years later in 1975 you could buy a Dodge Duster with A/C for $4,000.

26 i for one love collard greens.....

27
Clothes dryer??

We had no clothes dryers when I was a kid -- didn't need 'em; that's what women, wind, and sunshine was for.

28 As the elite's power diminishes, so will their agenda, or so I hope. 

Posted by: pep at July 24, 2011 12:29 PM (6TB1Z)

Ah, I see what you meant. Yeah, I agree with that. I'm an eternal optimist which is a bit out of character for the DOOM theme of this blog (no offense, Monty.)

We have definitely crossed over into new territory as far as how information is shared and I think that's a very good thing.

29 Collard greens are great although they tend to be a little tough right now, better in the fall.

30  i for one love collard greens.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at July 24, 2011 12:34 PM (eOXTH)

I have a great recipe that uses apple cider vinegar, a little bit of sugar and baconz!

31 Blame Woodrow Wilson, the "progressive democrat" that put us in WWI.

If the US does not enter the war, Germany would have sued for peace within a year.

Huh?  I thought I was reasonably well versed in the causes of the war.  Please explain how the Germans were going to sue for peace but for us.  They conducted a huge offensive as late as the summer of 1918.  They wanted to win before we could ramp up our troops.  That's a far stretch from the wanted to sue for peace. 

32 Oh and hot hot sauce. Gotta have hot sauce.

33
We made our own soap out of lye and some other shit.

We didn't have this liquid soap in a bottle.

34

Even the toughest budget hawks say don't fear if we don't raise the debt limit, because we can still pay off our bond holders and entitlements. All we have to do is cut the rest of the budget by 44%.

Posted by: ed at July 24, 2011 12:11 PM (Y2WVW)

That's why I love letting keeping the debt ceiling as it is. Force the government to cut that 44% until CCB is a Constitutional Amendment with a line item veto tossed in. We'll see how the Senate and President Solomon votes after 2 months of slashing. Cut off money from states that don't ratify CCB until you have the needed states on board. For next year's budget, proportionally spend what we spend during the next months. Tough course, but that would do it. 

Entitlements could be reformed afterwards.

Of course, if I thought that would really happen....

 

35 grandpa we had a clothes dryer but we hung out our wash to dry anyway.....the dryer was only for emergencies ....and with a family of seven that was a lot of wash.....and i was the designated wash hanger and taker inner........ lucky me.......

36

 have a great recipe that uses apple cider vinegar, a little bit of sugar and baconz!

Share please

37
The WH is ramping up the fear-mongering with, get this, the post office might shutdown.

Oh dear, who's gonna deliver my coupons and AOL CD's?

38 The last time we were like that was before the civil war. After the war it was pretty good for the North, the South sucked.

The last truly "golden age" in the U.S. for most of the country was the late 1800s. After that the progressives took over and everything went straight to hell.

39

It can't be overstated how much World War I totally screwed up the whole world. It killed off a whole generation of the bravest people in Europe, and was used by the survivors as a bludgeon to foist upon the world the nihilism and Nanny Stateism that is killing us today.

WWI gave birth to the Soviet Union and the spread of communism has continued virtually unabated ever since.

40
Chores.

Do kids today even know the meaning of the word?

41

CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2011 12:33 PM (LH6ir)

Heh.  Derbyshire wrote a book called that.

42 The last truly "golden age" in the U.S. for most of the country was the late 1800s. After that the progressives took over and everything went straight to hell.

Oh, yeah?

43

Share please

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at July 24, 2011 12:39 PM (3xl01)

I've never really measured the ingredients but basically you chop up the bacon and halfway through cooking add a chopped onion to cook in the bacon grease. Add maybe four tablespoons apple cider vinegar, one tablespoon sugar, some hot sauce, a couple cups of chicken stock and then the collard greens.

Sorry about the lack of measurements, I didn't learn it out of a cookbook.

You might need to adjust to taste.

44 If we can just get to the wasteland phase, we won't have to worry about government at all. Just saying.

45

Grandpa at July 24, 2011 12:37 PM (8++Is)

What about these new fangled "washing machines"?  Pernicious non-sense.  In my day, you could get a perfectly good washing board, half an oak barrel, and half a pound of lye soap, all for two bits.  And you were then wash ready.

I'll admit, we were a little spoiled in my day.  Because my grandmother told me of how she had to haul her dirty laundy down to the local crick and beat them on a wet rock, all the while keeping a keen eye out for catamounts and indians.

 

46
...all the while keeping a keen eye out for catamounts and indians.

heheh

47

Lord Humungus at July 24, 2011 12:47 PM (Yv6gq)

Your way holds much promise, but always seems to end up with assless chaps.

Seriously, what the fuck is up with that?

48 Did I mention Lewis ran for governor of CA?  Guess the party.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at July 24, 2011 12:50 PM (hXJOG)

Marxist-Leninist?

49 I suspect both sides would have sued for peace without US funding, supplies and troops. France and UK were tapped out, as was Germany.

Well, that's different, but I still disagree.  Germany knew they would lose if the US got in, but thought they would win if we didn't.  They came close in '18, even with our army there. 

If you are suggesting that we started the war to shift the world's economic locus to NY, I think you give way to much credit for convoluted malicious deviance to Wilson or the financiers.  I carry no brief for him, and think he was a very dangerous man to put in the presidency, but he wasn't that clever.

Anyway, my $0.02.

50

Mmm. Now you guys got me thinking BBQ.

Too late to fire up the smoker, tho.

51 > 2 ... However...He also made the point that the average British subject hated it. Medical emergencies and poor health could lead to misery and suffering. Etc., etc., etc., He noted that when given a chance, those British subjects happily and enthusiastically voted in all sorts of expansions in the welfare state. ... Posted by: ed The famous Thatcher quote applies here. Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money. Britain had a run after ww2 where they would socialize this or that and it would get off to a good start because they were taking over existing, effective infrastructure. But when it comes time to upgrade or replace it, they have to find the money. Take over a supermarket. Food gets real cheap for awhile. When it's time to restock... Ref voting in the expansions. Ben Franklin said, "you have a republic, if you can keep it." Britain voted themselves into their situation. Let's see if we can learn from their example and save ourselves.

52 soothsayer,

I don't know about you, but I live in a pretty urban area (Denver) and can't remember seeing kids doing the normal stuff we did growing up...shoveling snow, raking leaves, mowing the lawn and such.  Demographics has a lot to do with it, especially in my neighborhood; strictly retired or getting near, and yuppies with young kids.

no wonder we have so much graffiti

damn kids off my lawn

53 Posted by: Sinclair Lewis at July 24, 2011 12:43 PM (HjPtV)

Want a sausage?

54 I said quite a bit on this subject here

55 Posted by: model_1066 at July 24, 2011 12:59 PM (2j/Mv)

And almost every kid (including college students) I know has a sense of entitlement that is simply stunning.

We are doomed not just because of our government!

56 You might say there's been a lot of ... progress since then! (get it? progress, progressives? oh, I slay myself!)

DISCOUNT !!!!!

57 I just gave my american bulldog a bath in the yard...she was just white, but now she's brite!

58 64 Posted by: Sinclair Lewis at July 24, 2011 12:43 PM (HjPtV) Want a sausage? Posted by: Upton Sinclair at July 24, 2011 01:00 PM (LH6ir) HEWWO!!!

59

This is just more evidence of something that concerns me greatly. My friends, who are credentialed sophisticated and cosmopolitan, all say that both parties are essentially the same. It doesn't matter which one is in power. It's enough to make an honest person just want to throw up their hands.

One special friend, who has a Ph.D. in Political Web Site Integrity, used geometric logic to prove that this site is infested with liberal mobies. That's right - people you think are on the same side are really working against you. You can't know which Ace of Spades comment was written by a friend, and which one written by someone working against you. It's so sad - my delicate skin is raw from hand-wringing.

My friends say that the only answer is a third party. Splitting the Republican Party into two smaller ineffective parties is the only way to solve this crisis.

One of my friends sent me this link which proves it.

http://tinyurl.com/88bor

Well ta you brutes. I really have to go now. That Rock Hudson Western, "The Pole Smokers," is about to come on. My freinds tell me it's a classic.

 

60
A lot of "kid's jobs" have been taken by illegals, as you know. Jobs at hardware stores, grocery stores, landscapers, McDonald's, etc.

61
Graffiti is a big problem in Denver, too?

It is an epidemic here in Boston and the surrounding cities, as well.

Correction: it is an ignored epidemic.

62 The thing about England, and most of Europe for that matter, is stratification of the classes. Up until WWI the society in England was arranged strictly according to class. That was very little movement up or down.

That started changing after WWI and a lot of resentment among the lower classes had built up and that is what brought on socialism in England. WWII which started for England in the 30s only delayed it until after it was over.

We never had the stratification of classes in the U.S. but what we did have was a stratification of the races. That was pretty much ended in the early 60s and then all of the work done to end it was undone with Johnson's great society.

Now it is worse than it ever was.

63 Sure it's paradise lost...
how to get back there ? well, maybe the western world is running fast in that direction. Do you think the EPA will run by itself when the federal govt won't fund it anymore, having defaulted ? And what about the other "agencies", ATF, FBI, NEA ? I wonder if it's not all coming to an end, just like we were surprised in august 91 when the USSR collapsed.

About WWI:
WWI not only killed many able men and leaders, it traumatized the others and totally discredited the previous "social order" (which was pretty much libertarian). Shattered men came back, in need of "safety", with ideals of "peace" above all. It's no accident that Marechal Petain signed the reddition of France in 1940, he who fought and won in Verdun 2 decades before that infamy. He's also the one who signed into law "Social Security" in France... no accident either!

Thus the socialists won the debate, and the whole Europe got mussolini, nazis, france's got its "front populaire" and UK got its own version of leftism... as most of the countries lost their appetite for freedom, and looked for "peace" and "security".
Now the golden goose is broken (capitalism), and we're broke. F*ck.

64 > 65 I said quite a bit on this subject here Posted by: Truman North Funny to see the wide array of spam at the end of the comments there. Barnacles on the Pirate Ship AOS.

65 I'm betting small towns still have a 'get your ass outside and haul some wood' quotient.

66 model next time add some mrs. stewart's bluing to the bath....that puppy will blind you! heh.....my gram always used that when laundering the whites and on her hair......

67

Posted by: bi-curious at July 24, 2011 01:03 PM (C0Z3w)

I lol'd.

68
ANY flat surface is vulnerable to graffiti vandals. It's everywhere. They mostly away from private property that is being used, but not always.

69

Join with Daily Kos and Senator Bernie Sanders in opposition to cutting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits. Senator Sanders will convey your concerns to the White House and congressional leaders in a way that no one else can.

Thanks for all you do,
Chris Bowers
Campaign Director, Daily Kos

Posted by: soothsayer at July 24, 2011 12:23 PM

Join me and let's make the Bowers Movement huge!!11!!

70 Correction: it is an ignored epidemic.

Posted by: soothsayer at July 24, 2011 01:05 PM (8++Is)

No, thir! It ith a form of art that depictth the thocial and economic thtruggle of the underclath!

71 first time I got her (bout a year and a half ago), she was pretty dirty both from the brokeass slouch I her from and the metal choke chain that left a gray stain.  When I gave her a bath she was 12 shades brighter and you could see the dark spots on her skin.  And since i got her she's gained 25 pounds and is the neighborhood rock star...f'n great dog.

72

I believe that book is quoted in this WWI BBC Documentary

http://tinyurl.com/3b2bu3t

 

73 ANY flat surface is vulnerable to graffiti vandals. It's everywhere. They mostly away from private property that is being used, but not always.
Posted by: soothsayer at July 24, 2011 01:07 PM

I've always wondered how the hell they tag the freeway signs from the overpasses with nothing much to hang onto

I do believe Darwin reaped a few that took a headfirst spill onto the 110 Freeway though

74 But if you were an Irishman they could treat you like dogshit.

75 Correction: it is an ignored epidemic. Posted by: soothsayer at July 24, 2011 01:05 PM (8++Is) It's ART, dude!!!

76 We never had the stratification of classes in the U.S. but what we did have was a stratification of the races. That was pretty much ended in the early 60s and then all of the work done to end it was undone with Johnson's great society.

Ironic, isn't it.

77
Even the tailgates on large vans -- those produce-delivery vans -- are victims to the scribbled murals. No respect at all for private property.

78
Every bridge abutment up here is "tagged."
Every single one. Everywhere you look you see vandalism.

79 Do Royal Navy press gangs in the streets and alleys of Portsmouth and South Hampton count as "government interference"?

80 But if you were an Irishman they could treat you like dogshit. ----+++--- Ah, the good old days.

81 Chris Bowers
Campaign Director, Daily Kos
 
wtf. I guess AoS needs a similar position....say, Champagne Injester.

82 Even the tailgates on large vans -- those produce-delivery vans -- are victims to the scribbled murals. No respect at all for private property.

Posted by: soothsayer at July 24, 2011 01:11 PM (8++Is)

Yeah but the airbrushed scenes with unicorns and wizards and shit are TOTALLY sweet, man!

83 93 Do Royal Navy press gangs in the streets and alleys of Portsmouth and South Hampton count as "government interference"?

Posted by: Have Blue at July 24, 2011 01:13 PM (XPwyF)

Be quiet, infidel! We are remembering the good old days.

84

watching that rock hudson western has inspired my my friends -- they want to do a little slumming and experiment with something that the little people beween the coasts like to do: playing cowboys and indians (!)

they have outfits and everything - that's new york for you, anything and everything is there when you need it.  i've already taped on my tiny cowboy hat at a jaunty angle.

there's this one part in the movie where rock pulls an entire train single-handed. i get to be rock. so exiting.

over here! who wants a piece of the rock!

85 > 93 Do Royal Navy press gangs in the streets and alleys of Portsmouth and South Hampton count as "government interference"? That was mentioned in the comments to the linked article. There were no press gangs in 1914.

86 @91

I've lived and worked in central denver for 11 years now, and see that shit too...but I never once witnessed any punks doing it.  probably a good thing I didn't see the asswipes in the act of tagging the side of my brick garage.  then throw in the glass etching and liquid paint markers, and your community is a ghetto. there's a trainyard here where the UP locomotives go to rust...they are covered with tags and shit, but it keeps changing - either release the hounds or send in the sniper!

87 off to mix gin and tonics with house repair..

88 off to mix gin and tonics with house repair..

Posted by: model_1066 at July 24, 2011 01:20 PM (2j/Mv)

Send someone back to tell us what happened, k?

89 I recently ranted in the ONT about HOAs. I present further evidence that they are run by a bunch of nincompoop fascists:
 
A south Bossier City homeowners association has sued to force a family to remove a front yard sign supporting their son's military service because it violated subdivision covenants.
 
I imagine a cupful of sugar in each board member's gas tank might sweeten their disposition a bit.

90 It's also true that in those halcyon days, an Englishman of the lower classes faced the prospect of brute starvation if he was unable to get a job, or if he were injured or ill to the point where he couldn't work. Read about conditions in the teeming slums of the East End. Read about the lives of the "street Arabs," the era's colorful term for homeless children who survived as pickpockets and scavengers. Read "Oliver Twist." Or read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" for an American perspective. That way of life may have been paradise for the privileged, but it was hell for the unwashed. A social safety net, within reason, is not a bad thing.

91 We had no clothes dryers when I was a kid -- didn't need 'em; that's what women, wind, and sunshine was for.

Anybody else ever have t-shirts with rust lines on them from where momma draped them over the fence? 

92 20 @18

That means a 1908 Model T would cost $19,782 in 2010 dollars.

It was a bare bones car too, no A/C or radio, or top.

No wonder Ford got rich.
Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at July 24, 2011 12:28 PM

That was when the car first came out. Once Ford ramped up the assembly lines and spat them out by the millions, the prices dropped in the same way that computers, cell phones, tv's and game consoles did in the last 30 years

The standard 4-seat open tourer of 1909 cost $850(equivalent to $20,709 today), when competing cars often cost $2,000–$3,000 (equivalent to $48,726–$73,089 today); in 1913, the price dropped to $550 (equivalent to $12,181 today), and $440 in 1915 (equivalent to $9,521 today). Sales were 69,762 in 1911; 170,211 in 1912; 202,667 in 1913; 308,162 in 1914; and 501,462 in 1915.In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.

By the 1920s, the price had fallen to $290 (equivalent to $3,289 today) because of increasing efficiencies of assembly line technique and volume. Henry employed vertical integration of the industries needed to create his cars.

93 Or read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" for an American perspective.

Upton Sinclair was a communist. And what was amazing was that his family was actually wealthy.  He lived for times with his wealthy grandparents and then back with his worthless alcoholic father.

That turned him into a communist and it should have had the opposite effect. But look at the time frame where he gained his fame and fortune as a writer.

Yes, the age of the progressive when the socialists gained sway.

94 Anybody else ever have t-shirts with rust lines on them from where momma draped them over the fence? 

Posted by: SCRednek at July 24, 2011 01:25 PM (MbMSS)

No but I had clothespin marks on my shirts.  My mother hated the dryer!  Clothesline all the way...and if it started to rain it was all hands on deck to get the clothes down.

95 Anybody else ever have t-shirts with rust lines on them from where momma draped them over the fence?

Now even we had clothes lines and cloths pens in the 50s.

96 I remember a scene from one of the Aubrey-Maturin novels where Aubrey tries to console a pressed sailor that after a year or two he would get used to navy life and even come to love it.

97

51 Sinclair Lewis was the biggest lying socialist to ever pick up a pen. 

I think you mean Upton Sinclair, right, who wrote The Jungle?

Not being faceious here, but just making sure we're talking about the same person.

He even admits that his meat packing book was a complete lie in an attempt to unionize the workers.

Really?  I was not aware of that public admission, although I'm not surprised as The Jungle ends quite abruptly (at a Socialist rally) with Sinclair's prescription of socialism as the answer for what ails industry, with no evidence to show that it would be better.  Case in point - all the safety flaws, disregard for the plight of the worker, and all-around-nastiness seen in the "labor havens" of the USSR, China, and North Korea.

98

Posted by: sauropod at July 24, 2011 01:25 PM (GPm6P)

But at what level?

Here in Canada, we spend vast amounts of money of government and social safety nets and we STILL have homeless people. When I lived in the United States, same thing. We've spent TRILLIONS on a great society handing out money to 'the poor' only to have an underclass in many cases unable and / or unwilling to work.

Anecdotal - my 70 year old uncle, ex-Marine, inspects houses in Detroit. Came across an abandoned junker. Invited an old black man to take away what he could. Both men, in their 70's, worked to haul out the stove. The other old man said he couldn't find anyone willing to work. And why should they? Government Sugar keeps on coming.....

 

Posted by: lmae at July 24, 2011 01:06 PM (n6Ple)

I think it's ending for a while. The restructuring is going to be hell.

99 Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at July 24, 2011 01:32 PM (9hSKh)

Both "Sinclairs" were communists.

100
I'm worried about this two-stepped approach by Boehner.

Is he drafting two separate bills? If so, why would the 2nd bill go through if the 1st gives Obama what he wants?

101 Comrade Arthur at July 24, 2011 01:18 PM (/62i9)

True about no press gangs in 1914. However my take away from the quote was that "up until" WWI the government was distant and irrelevant. 

The press was very active in the early 1800's during the Napoleonic wars.

102 Now even we had clothes lines and cloths pens in the 50s.
Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2011 01:31 PM

I've got the clothes pens that the astronauts used!

103 > 104 ... That way of life may have been paradise for the privileged, but it was hell for the unwashed. A social safety net, within reason, is not a bad thing. Posted by: sauropod Even Hayek acknowledges that a social safety net is desirable. What we're (we = america) are squabbling about is how much. Too much leads to destruction. It's like propelling yourself down the road with the exhaust from a firehose. It's easy to get out of control.

104

Two articles to feed your wrath.

1. The Entitlement Bubble: The Bust Is Going to Be a Nightmare

 http://tinyurl.com/2urfqga

2. Historically, each dollar in new taxes had led to more than a dollar in new spending.

http://tinyurl.com/24ej6oo

 

105 Now even we had clothes lines and cloths pens in the 50s.

Momma runs out of that single line, well, she was resourceful that way.  And to tell the truth, it really didn't matter much to me or the kid next door.

106

Dry your clothes harnessing the power of the Sun!

Save hundreds per year on clothes drying.

Send $10 and include your return address.

107

The Basic Tee.

Classic white cotton tee shirt made from 100% natural fiber. Certified compatible with the full solar drying cycle

$49.95 each.

108 Momma runs out of that single line, well, she was resourceful that way.  And to tell the truth, it really didn't matter much to me or the kid next door.

We had two poles with T's. There were three lines on the polls stretched about 35 feet apart. That was enough for clothes if we did at least two batches of clothes a week.

And Tami; the rain wasn't so bad for my mom, it was the "birds" she hated. There was a big mulberry tree near the back of the lot it may for some messy stuff.

109 Thanks to Progressives, nearly every western nation is now a police state.  They did it by encouraging lawlessness and repudiating Christian morals.  Not satisfied with the resulting consequences, our elite overlords needed a police state to protect themselves from their own creation.

You see, Progressives are never "wrong," (there is no "wrong" or "right," only shades of gray).  So they can never allow a society to return to a time when people encouraged Christian morals and repudiated lawlessness.

Progressives are like the fool who finds himself in a hole but refuses to stop digging.  Well, they're certainly in a big fckn hole now, aren't they?

110 Made for some messy stuff.

111
We had two poles with T's. There were three lines on the polls stretched about 35 feet apart. That was enough for clothes if we did at least two batches of clothes a week.

And Tami; the rain wasn't so bad for my mom, it was the "birds" she hated. There was a big mulberry tree near the back of the lot it may for some messy stuff.

Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2011 01:46 PM (M9Ie6)

We had the same setup....two T poles, three lines and a huge tree 10 ft. from the lines.  Yes, the birds...she didn't care if she had to rewash anything...she loved the way the clothes smelled from the fresh air drying them.  Of course, you'd have to crack the towels to fold them.....

112 Is this a Fucksnap McTrolltwat free zone?

113 yo.

114 Is this a Fucksnap McTrolltwat free zone? It's pronounced "Throat Warbler Mangrove"

115 OT but, awww yes.

The gunman used "special bullets designed to break apart in the victim and cause more damage".


It's not the guns or the psyhcopaths....it's the special bullets!!!!

116 Is this a Fucksnap McTrolltwat free zone?

Does such a zone actually exist?

117 Made for some messy stuff.

I bet.  We had a single, metal wire between trees.  One thing, though.  The nostalgia of soft, fresh smelling laundry?  All I remember was everything was very stiff and scratchy and smelled of soap.  Momma used oxydol.  She had those plates that came in the boxes forever.

118 We had the same setup....two T poles, three lines and a huge tree 10 ft. from the lines.  Yes, the birds...she didn't care if she had to rewash anything...she loved the way the clothes smelled from the fresh air drying them.  Of course, you'd have to crack the towels to fold them.....

I have a colony of cats I care for. My jeans hung in the morning would resemble a grass skirt by the end of the day.

119 If so, why would the 2nd bill go through if the 1st gives Obama what he wants?
Posted by: soothsayer

That's because the first doesn't give Obummer what he wants. The first bill is a short term deal to raise the debt limit; Obummer wants a deal that lasts until after the election.

120 Is this a Fucksnap McTrolltwat free zone?

My friends are all hoping for such a zone.

121
ahhh, I see

122
I'm just worried about Stupak II.

123 Another advantage of clotheslines over dryers is the fact that the clothes last longer.

124 Boil until tender, add some brown sugar and pre cooked bacon, serve hot with a bottle of Texas Pete hot vinegar on the side. You can substitute young poke weed shoots (poke salet) for the greens, but be sure to boils and drain them twice before using. Same with curly docks. For some fun on a Saturday night, use some Jimson weed.

125

Boner's latest

It looks like he will in the end agree to tax hikes for cuts "10 years down the road" and the Commies aren't buying into it because the tax hikes aren't large enough.

126 I have a colony of cats I care for. My jeans hung in the morning would resemble a grass skirt by the end of the day.

Posted by: As If... at July 24, 2011 01:56 PM (piMMO)

They'd wear themselves out jumping up to get them...the bottom of the clothes were at least about 4 ft. from the ground.  She had a pole that she would use to prop the lines if they got too heavy and hung too close to the group.

She had a line in the basement too....4 ft. from the dryer.

127 group=ground.

128  

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at July 24, 2011 01:39 PM (C0Z3w)

Those were good to read. Thanks.

129 Poke Salad Annie, gators got your Grannie (chomp, chomp chomp chomp)

130 139Another advantage of clotheslines over dryers is the fact that the clothes last longer.

Posted by: Nighthawk at July 24, 2011 02:02 PM (PlLNQ)

 

Yeah, well an advantage of the dryer over clothes lines is that clothes come out soft and manageable, not stiff and creased.

Seriously, I've done my fair share of clothes line drying... and they usually come out stiff, not fluffy and smelling of rainbows and unicorns.

 

131 Speaking of Stupak, anybody else curious as to if/what/how much he was paid? Does anybody else doubt that fat bags of cash showed up to people for a yes vote? How many Dems fell on their swords for that sack of trash? And you are telling me they did it out of just loyalty to "the cause"

132 Teddy Roosevelt was so horrified by the unsanitary conditions depicted in "The Jungle" that he sent one of his cabinet officers to investigate. The official reported that, if anything, conditions were worse than Sinclair had described. The book led to meat inspections and other reforms. Upton Sinclair was a socialist, but that doesn't mean his first-hand observations of life in Chicago's slums should be discounted. "The Jungle" is fiction, but it was inspired by fact. Life was very hard for those unfortunate enough to be down and out in those days. We don't really want to go back to the days of child labor, sweatshops, debtor's prison, and company stores, do we?

133 We don't really want to go back to the days of child labor, sweatshops, debtor's prison, and company stores, do we? Posted by: sauropod

Strawmen and no violins? What a ripoff!

134 Is this a Fucksnap McTrolltwat free zone?

Unpossible!

135 You will accept the standard of living we decide you will have. If you complain you will be prosecuted, fined, shunned, and humiliated.

136 Whoever is monitoring that next thread needs to kill all those "marque tags". They have the entire thread locked up.

137 Hey, I have a black conservative friend too, who is going to help me through the coming collapse

Geez, Camo. Don't going whipping it out like that. It's embarrassing.

My black friend is much less well-endowed.

138 Teddy Roosevelt was a big "progressive" as well.

139 #149 "Strawmen and no violins?" You think there weren't sweatshops, etc. in pre-1914 England? The flip side of all the freedom enjoyed by the upper classes in that period was the total neglect of the lower classes. Personally I'm in favor of striking a balance. YMMV.

140 _{Personally I'm in favor of striking a balance.}

Yes. Spread the wealth, as it were.

141 Whoever is monitoring that next thread needs to kill all those "marque tags". They have the entire thread locked cocked up.

fify

142  Whoever is monitoring that next thread needs to kill all those "marque tags". They have the entire thread locked up.

Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2011 02:28 PM (M9Ie6)

"They" are major league asshats.

143 Sinclair Lewis was widely known as "Red Lewis".

144 Whoever is monitoring that next thread needs to kill all those "marque tags". They have the entire thread locked up.

Playing around with the comments is one thing. Screwing with the layout of someone else's blog is an entirely different thing and that is what has now happened.

I tried to comment, but '7 Chinese Spammers' was pre-populated into 3 new text boxes in the comment box. It would let me type a comment, but when I tried to post it the system wouldn't even accept it.

145
Posted by: Count de Monet

And you're another anonymous internet coward. Slimy little shit.

146 Same here.

I hear the soft slippers of an  epic spanking coming down the hall.

147 The marquee thing, in itself, is harmless. The problem is those who are fucking around with codes they don't know and redesigning the blog layout itself.

148 _{And you're another anonymous internet coward. Slimy little shit.}

I think you may need some lightening up there, Francis.

149 Same here.

I hear the soft slippers of an  epic spanking coming down the hall.

I was all in on the fun last night, but the extent of my fun ran to centering and marqueeing of my comments. There's always someone who has to push it to the next edgier level and goes too far.

150 Hey! What's with spanking the count?

151 Posted by: Count de Monet

And you're another anonymous internet coward. Slimy little shit.

Posted by: soothsayer at July 24, 2011 02:51 PM (8++Is)

Piffle.  Can dish it out but can't take it??  Unexpected!!!

152 AoSHQ Theater Presents


Pissing Contest VII: The Pissening

153 shit  i  tried scrolling now i have a banner i cant get rid of

154 The belief that a reasonably law abiding Englishman could pass through life hardly noticing the existance of the state prior to 1914 requires some selective memory.  The "Impress Gangs" better known as "press gangs" jump to mind - government gangs roaming England "pressing" - usually by force - those unlucky enough to be caught into the Navy, a lovely practice that lasted well into the 1800s. 

Then there were the enlightened Bankruptcy laws back in the day - where discharging debt was done by spending significant time debtor's Prisons.  As for being able to goods anywhere in the world on the same terms as he could at home, well ot exactly.  Import customs were around and of course at different times they just banned allowing Englishmen to buy from whomever - the molasses thingy comes to mind.  And of course there were not so modest taxes compared to the income of the different times - stamp act comes to mind as does the quartering of troops in private homes - yes it was in the colonies but they were English at the time.  

So I guess maybe a more accurate statement would be a reasonably law-abiding Englishman could pass through life without noticing the state as long as he did not live in a coastal area, did not want to buy things from another country that were banned by the government, did not drink tea, and heaven forbid, did not owe a debt he couldn't repay.

Yes, we're over regulated and over taxed by a government whose size is matched only by its incompetency.  But let's not get carried away and claim we voted utopia away....

155 oh, it's not me, i got the 7 chinese spammer thing too

156 The blog is being ransacked again on the top thread.

The ass-chewing will be legendary as the Paul Anka Singularity.

157 The ass-chewing will be legendary as the Paul Anka Singularity.

Posted by: sifty is hearing the fife and drum at July 24, 2011 03:16 PM (ECjvn)

Which is why I'm staying far away. I don't wish to get caught in the crossfire.

158 The commenter who won't give it up hadn't commented all day until they started their 'Romney' scroll. And the only comment they posted on the ONT last night was this one.

Proof the Norway Dude shot up a Hitler Socialist Youth Camp.
http://tinyurl.com/3r3jjsm
Picture of one of the kids holding a BOIKOTT ISRAEL sign.

Posted by: PerryDREAMACT at July 24, 2011 03:23 AM (G/JLJ)

Methinks there is a shithead on the loose.

159 Methinks there is a shithead on the loose.

Posted by: As If... at July 24, 2011 03:34 PM (piMMO)

Been a lot of those lately. I'm guessing it's screeching-crazy libatrds losing it.

I could be wrong.

160 You are only wrong if you admit you are wrong!

Buy my cookbook.

Gaze at this tanker.

161 About WWI:
WWI not only killed many able men and leaders, it traumatized the others and totally discredited the previous "social order" (which was pretty much libertarian). Shattered men came back, in need of "safety", with ideals of "peace" above all. It's no accident that Marechal Petain signed the reddition of France in 1940, he who fought and won in Verdun 2 decades before that infamy. He's also the one who signed into law "Social Security" in France... no accident either!

Thus the socialists won the debate, and the whole Europe got mussolini, nazis, france's got its "front populaire" and UK got its own version of leftism... as most of the countries lost their appetite for freedom, and looked for "peace" and "security".
Now the golden goose is broken (capitalism), and we're broke. F*ck.

Posted by: lmae at July 24, 2011 01:06 PM (n6Ple)

After WWI, they reject the previous social order, but after WWII they don't.

Would've been nice if they could've been consistent, at least.

162 170And the Church of England was supported by taxes on everyone regardless of their religion or sect. Jews, Catholics and even non-Anglican Protestants ('dissenters') were all discriminated against in law to varying degrees until well into the nineteenth century. As to tariffs, the Corn Laws spring to mind. Small farmers and agricultural labourers would certainly notice the existence of Parliament when it passed Enclosure Acts. They surely noticed, but they had no say in the matter, having no vote for Parliament - on the grounds that the poor had no interests which needed representing there! (It's ... remarkable that this argument has recently been revived by Mark Steyn, lamenting his oppressed status as someone who lives in a country where poor people have the vote.)

163 but they had no say in the matter, having no vote for Parliament I can't neglect to mention the Peterloo Massacre in this respect.

164 107 Upton Sinclair was a communist. Is Dickens conservative enough for you? I don't think there's much dispute that when he portrayed conditions for the English poor as, well, Dickensian he was fairly accurate. 177 Letting debtor skip? How has that helped the economy? The main reason people are glad to be rid of Victorian debtor's prisons isn't because it helps the economy. Nonetheless, it happens that the US' lenient bankruptcy laws are often credited as an important cause of the dynamism of the US economy.

165 ugh, was at Hudson Trail Outfitters, there's now a federal license to go angling.

166 I doubt if Dickens was very conservative and it doesn't matter what he was. He wrote fiction. And besides that, the time frame he was writing about was long before the time frame described in the subject of this post.

167 And the paragraph is total b.s.

168 ... and then women got the vote.

169 In parting, a couple of historical notes: the "hundred years ago" cited in the paragraph was 1865, not 1911 or 1914 (it was written in 1965).

Also, the Model T was fairly expensive in 1908 when it first came out. But it got cheaper and cheaper every year for almost 20 years. Its later price was half of that, even in an inflationary economy.

Many wrong trees have just been barked up.

170 Wow this is soo helpful I have been trying to figure this out on my own for a long time now. Hopefully making this change will help encourage discussion on my blog.

171

HEY EVERYBODY,ISN'T IT INTERESTING MANY OF THE PERIOD SHOWS  START PRE-WWI.

172 blah blah blah. notice how women, weren't mentioned in this article, or the poor. Nor did it mention forced conscription among the colonies, or the fact that you were just as likely to be arrested to help colonize Australia. Guess what, this same "perfect" government plunged it's country into a 7 year war that killed millions, lost it's empire, and accomplished nothing. When the people eventually revolted they were near bankrupt after WW2 and lived thru decades of rationing and socialism just to put their country back together. Cherry picking history is a fools game. The good old days WEREN'T, they never existed, life was hard and death was easy, if you got sick you probably died. If you were lucky you had a little money if you weren't you worked 7 days a week every week often from the age of 6 up. You didn't have much and there was no birth control, everyone lived in the same room, there was no privacy, there was no running water. No matter the law it could be upended by unelected Lords who blatantly use the government to fatten their family coffers. If you want this life go be amish. Also notice how women, weren't mentioned in this article, or the poor. Nor did it mention forced conscription among the colonies, or the fact that you were just as likely to be arrested to help colonize Australia. Guess what, this same "perfect" government plunged it's country into a 7 year war that killed millions, lost it's empire, and accomplished nothing. When the people eventually revolted they were near bankrupt after WW2 and lived thru decades of rationing and socialism just to put their country back together. But sure tell us more about the golden days.