January 13, 2011
— Ace Obvious, I think, but this kind of guy is looking for fame.
The other day I was misspelling the Idiot Killer's name. A commenter pointed it out, and I was about to correct (it had been inadvertent), but it did occur to me: Why not just misspell his name, as we famously did, to sadly no good effect, with Linza Muzzarelli? If this Idiot Killer wants his name remembered, why not try our best to deny him that?
But I did correct his name, anyway.
Then I went on to Jim Geraghty's site, and he pointed out he was writing the name as seldom as possible, and I thought, Gee, I'm a dick. I should have misspelled it after all.
But that's just symbolic, anyway; the name cannot be suppressed. Only a MiniTruth could suppress it, and thank God we don't have that.
That said, it's important to this kind of cat about how he's remembered. Calling him a monster is not an insult; he wants us to think of him as a monster. A failure in all aspects of his life, he decided, correctly, that the only possible way the world would ever know of him would be for him to commit a stupid, crude atrocity, a type easily achievable with minimal planning and strategy, because that is the most his borderline-retarded level of intellect and discipline could achieve.
Turned away from the most menial jobs as patently unqualified, shunned by women as 400-watt blazing-white loser, charmless, ugly, unskilled and weird, he set out to become The Bogeyman, the ugly monster, and succeeded at that (but what else was he capable of, except stupid lumbering destruction?).
So calling him a monster isn't an insult; he is so degraded and limited in his ambitious that "monster" is his highest ambition.
I think what we can do is tell the truth about him: He is borderline retarded. I do not say that to hurt anyone with mentally-challenged people in their families, but to hurt him, because he wants us all to believe that behind that ugly, bent-smile mask of psychotic horror there is something more to him, something interesting, something searching, that we should all pay attention to.
But there is not. His "philosophy," as it were, consists entirely of aping the most childishly-simplistic syllogisms of a logic class he obviously dropped out after two weeks; half of them are wrong in the first place, and the other half are along the lines of "Apples are red. This is an apple. Therefore this is red." His other Big Insight is to note that our dating conventions are in fact conventions, just like our naming conventions. Or our bridge-bidding conventions. Or... any convention.
I do not think he understands what the word "convention" means but if he bothered to look it up, and noticed that not only has all of this been noticed before but it's been noticed well enough that there's a specific word for it, it might have saved him a great deal of strain on his stunted, inadequate, deformed intellect.
People will be looking for "evil" in his writings. That is the wrong tactic. Evil, in its literary form, is interesting -- ask Dante -- whereas Jared Loughner is not. Evil, in, again, its literally form, is sexy -- ask Dracula -- whereas Jared Loughner appears to be a loaf of bad bread that didn't quite bake long enough in the oven.
Evil, in its genuine form, is almost always crude, stupid, and ugly. Like Jared Loughner.
But searching for evil in his writings would be to pay sympathy to the Devil, for that, to him, is his highest aspiration. But Jared Loughner is not the Devil, and I know this, because the Devil isn't pasty and paunchy. He's not a 115 pound loser encased in 45 comfort pounds of babyfat and couch-padding.
The more rewarding task is to search his leavings for stupidity, confusion, inadequacy, and ugliness, because in his shut-in, pathetic, socially-isolated life he left us a veritable treasure trove of full-spectrum failure.
Here's Ladies' Man Nephew Fester attempting, he thinks, a sexy come on to someone.
I bet your hungry....Because i know how to cut a body open and eat you for more then a week. ;-)
Don't focus on the grotesquerie of taking "eating out" somewhat more literally than usually intended; that is just this flabby dullard's ripping off of American Psycho and trying to be "weird" because "weird" is the closest thing he has to a personality.
No, focus on his pathetic attempts to rescue this obtuse flirtation with a winky-smiley-emoticon at the end. That is worse than insane; that is sad.
His full-spectrum failure with women -- an impressive debacle, given the fact that almost everyone hooks up or winds up married, no matter how disadvantaged they may be -- is a frequent complaint of Loughner's, who's such a colossal failure in this regard that he can't even hide his shame, as most people do.
Here he is, pathetically telling others of his failures, and, even worse, resorting to transparent fantasy of selective, protective recall of events even in doing so:
Its funny... when..they say lets go on a date about 3 times..and they dont....go...
That is funny. So funny, in fact, it doesn't happen. Women rarely ask men on dates, and I'm quite certain no one ever said "lets go on a date" to Jared Loughner. As evidence for this, I submit Exhibit A.
Further, if a woman is so interested in a man that she skips the social convention (look it up, Jared) and does ask a man on a date, guess what -- she goes on the date.
Obviously what we have here is Loughner begging women, multiple times, to go on dates with him, and them demurring in the vaguest, safest way possible because he's so crackling with weird, jangly, ugly energy they're a little too afraid to just say "No." Not sure how the scrawny and yet still quite chubby boy would handle it. And he is incapable of comprehending that he's been given a polite "no thank" you -- even after the third time 'round.
This leads, of course, to Loughner theorizing further on male-female interaction, again resorting to stupid, ugly fantasy to mask the terrible reality of his failure from himself.
Later that day, he posted a rant titled "Why Rape," which said women in college enjoyed being raped. "There are Rape victims that are under the influence of a substance. The drinking is leading them to rape. The loneliness will bring you to depression. Being alone for a very long time will inevitably lead you to rape."
So why didn't he rape? I don't know, but I doubt he could have overpowered a woman. He didn't lack the will or nastiness; he just lacked the upper-body strength. I suppose we have to be grateful for that.
Having solved the eternal puzzle of male/female interaction, the Idiot Killer Loughner tries to untangle further mysteries:
Would you hit a Handy Cap Child/Adult?This is a very interesting question...
Actually it's not terribly interesting to me, because Jared Laugher, who is himself a "Handy Cap," has provided me with a ready answer, and no question answered so immediately is truly "interesting." But let's follow the philosophical inquiry of the deformed boy-toad further:
There are mental retarded children.
Do tell.
They're possessing teachers that are typing for money.
Remember: Highest in Loughner's skill-set, per his own self-description, is his attentiveness to, and expertise regarding, the subject of English grammar.
What you just read, then, is Lougher firing on all his one cylinders. What you just read is as good as he gets.
This will never stopÂ….The drug addicts need to be weeded out to be more intelligent.
What can I say? The man makes a surpassingly good case.
The Principle of this is that them c— educators need to stop being pigs.
That sentence is a bit of a surprise, because despite being ungainly, ugly, and clumsy, it actually contains no actual mistakes of grammar.
Yes, read it again. It's actually spelled correctly, with no mistakes of punctuation (such as Loughner's bafflement about the correct usage of ellipses and his unsurprisingly-schizophrenic mind about how many periods are proper in an ellipsis).
Loughner's special genius at "grammar" is to deploy it so crudely and clumsily that it appears he's making mistakes and speaking in a third language even when he's managed, as a technical matter, to write one of his few instances of clean prose. Correction: Nope, I got so inured of his endless errors I missed one here. "Them." So his streak of grammatical failure is pretty much uninterrupted.
But he's not done philosophizing:
On April 28, Mr. Loughner wrote: "How many stars are in the universe?" Other posters responded with mathematical calculations. Later in the thread, Mr. Loughner shifted gears: "What do Chocolate cookies taste like?"
Neither of those questions is automatically stupid, but they are stupid in Loughner's case, as it's pretty plain he's just asking childishly-simple questions because he picked that up from the three paragraphs of a Zen primer he was able to manage before his headaches set in, and plainly has on interest in actually exploring the issues. These stupid questions are not intended to solicit information but rather convey information about Loughner, and that information, he hopes, is that he has wide-ranging mind full of deep inquiry.
In fact, he's a diagnosable moron in the old, medical sense of the term, who plainly has no Act II with regard to his "inquiries." He asks a simplistic question hoping people will perceive some depth behind it, but when it's time to demonstrate that depth, he's not up to the challenge and has to get out from being in over his head by asking what cookies taste like.
If someone had answered that, he just would have tried "Why rain?" or "What Monday?" or "Who America?" or some other crackerjack sophomorism.
He probably seized upon some Zen charlatan's observation that four-year-olds are the wisest among us for they question the most. Which heartened him, because that's about his speed.
By the way, I knew someone, briefly, who according to his friend's testimony had been nearly brain-damaged by constant pot use (my friend said, That's why I don't smoke every day), and this was the kind of childlike-stupid question he'd ask. Like, he turned to me as we were watching MTV, and asked, "How is it someone you never heard of suddenly get on every tv channel and radio station all at once?" I was a bit baffled by the question, because the answer seemed obvious: "You never heard of her, but her producer, record label, and marketing department did, and they've timed the advertising campaign and full-court press to get airplay for this moment," but he didn't seem to appreciate the answer. He seemed to think the answer should be more metaphysical, more mysterious.
Because, I note, he was stupid, but thought he was asking a very ethereal sort of question, and thought it should have a similarly ethereal answer. Having gotten a real answer, he went back to zoning out.
That's all Loughner's questions are. He, wrongly, thinks he's in the vanguard of asking such questions, so when he asks "How many stars in the universe?" he intends it to be a stunner for his audience. When his interlocutor gives him an answer -- with a formula and everything -- he's not interested, because it was never his intent to actually find an answer; it was his intent to be praised for asking the question, and he's disappointed that it turns out to be something a lot of people have already thought about and, in fact, pretty much answered.
He's disappointed to find out, over and over, that rather than being rather ahead of the game he's about eight to ten mental-years behind it (if not more).
But that's where he lives, isn't it?
On May 14, at 10:50 p.m., Mr. Loughner begins an online thread he called, "How many applications....is a lot?" It contained what appears to be a list of 21 retail outlets he had applied to or failed to get a job at, including Crate & Barrel, Wendy's and Domino's Pizza....
One gamer advised him that in order to get a job, he needed to provide potential employers such things as references and a list of jobs he had held previously. Mr. Loughner replied in a profanity-laced message that he knew that. "CANT HOLD TERMINATION AGAINST FUTURE EMPLOYEE !" He repeated that line 117 times.
I'm sorry to waste everyone's time "fisking" a mental defective; but I sort of think the exercise is useful, to deny him what he wants, and on a personal level, it's cathartic to vent hate at a truly hateful thing.
I'll just end with the Idiot Killer Loughner accidentally stumbling on to the answer to one of his insipid questions without realizing it:
"If you went to prison right now.....What would you be thinking?"
Two days earlier, whining again about his uninterrupted string of failure in trying to interest a woman in his meager "gifts," Loughner had answered himself, but he was too stupid to link the answer to the future question:
"Its funny when your 60 wondering......what happen at 21."
Odd that he didn't put 1 and 1 together. With a new record of six periods in his ellipsis, it certainly seemed as if some less-damaged part of his brain was trying to signal something big.
A message found after the shooting contained the words "Die, Bitch" in relation to Congressman Giffords. I note that it is not irony -- it is inevitability -- that this ragged mound of flop-sweat and failure could not even manage the trivially-easy task of killing an unarmed and unaware woman at pointblank range with a good pistol.
Even setting out to achieve an evil so simple his deformed brain could cope, he still failed.
Even setting his goals low enough that even he could, in theory, achieve them -- even in his brutishly-stupid aspiration to be a discount-rack off-brand factory-irregular damaged-packaging nothing of a minor assassin -- he is still the same abject failure he was at all other aspects of his life.
Jesus Christ All Mighty. This sick fuck is the biggest loser in the history of the earth.
Suprisingly... A lot of posters aren't on board with this mockery. I suppose because they themselves know mentally-incapable people and extending that empathy they've learned.
But, as Alex #11 said, my aim here is demystification. He wants mystification; I am doing my best to deny it to him. This is less about Loughner -- he's a nothing; he's a bug -- it's about the next Loughner.
As the Judge says sometime during The Wall: I sentence you to be Exposed...! Exposure is, for most, a scary thing.
All these vermin are the same, and they're uninteresting and unworthy in the same way. Their "brand differentiation," if you will, is their mystique of being "evil."
I'm saying no. No mystique. You are destructive, stupid, illiterate fat chubby loser. And you acted out like a piece of bad machinery did, with a lot of noise and confusion and some deaths; but we pay you no more mind than that machinery we now bury. You don't change our worldview.
You don't have that power. You're nothing.
Now, there are some killers who I suppose might be interesting in some morbid way but I'm telling the truth when I note this one is decidedly not. He's just a pathetic, angry retarded boy who didn't get the medication he needed.
Another commenter offers his snark on this loser:
Laughner is merely the Ralph Wiggum of evil.
Maybe that's too lighthearted for this project, but yeah, that's about right.
Loughner set out to teach the world something. All he taught us was what we already knew: subliterate losers get angry at their predicament and we need to crate them off to safe places before they explode like cretin-bombs.
Posted by: Ace at
09:23 AM
| Comments (362)
Post contains 2694 words, total size 17 kb.
Posted by: Ms Choksondik at January 13, 2011 09:28 AM (F+Y9Z)
Hell, you do it to Barry all the time, why stop now?
Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord© at January 13, 2011 09:29 AM (GBXon)
--Uh, women do this to guys who are not weird or ugly. It's a pretty common tactic against losers like me.
Posted by: logprof at January 13, 2011 09:32 AM (BP6Z1)
Posted by: logprof at January 13, 2011 09:32 AM (BP6Z1)
Posted by: EC at January 13, 2011 09:32 AM (mAhn3)
Half the country gives those to anyone with a pulse. And I'm not convinced even the pulse is mandatory.
Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord© at January 13, 2011 09:33 AM (GBXon)
Posted by: toby928™ at January 13, 2011 09:34 AM (S5YRY)
Pleased to meet you; don't misspell the name.
Posted by: Keith Arnold at January 13, 2011 09:36 AM (Jdtsu)
CANT HOLD TERMINATION AGAINST FUTURE EMPLOYEE !
That way you're sure they don't become a present employee.
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 13, 2011 09:36 AM (Ty06w)
Posted by: Speller at January 13, 2011 09:36 AM (J74Py)
Yes he is nuttier than a jar of Planters, but he obviously knew he was doing wrong and he planned it in advance. Both of those qualify him for the juice.
I would prefer he get the electricity juice but I think AZ has a choice between firing squad and the needle.
Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2011 09:37 AM (M9Ie6)
Posted by: Steve the Pirate at January 13, 2011 09:37 AM (SmUfB)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 09:38 AM (Ez4Ql)
I don't think he will care. This life is all just a construct anyway. A dream within a nightmare.
Posted by: toby928™ at January 13, 2011 09:38 AM (S5YRY)
Even setting out to achieve an evil so simple his deformed brain could cope, he still failed.
Not really. It's six days later and he's still garnering wall-to-wall coverage. I think he kind of achieved his goals.
Girls wouldn't pay him a lick of attention. So now he's got all of America for that.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at January 13, 2011 09:39 AM (pLTLS)
Posted by: Steve the Pirate at January 13, 2011 01:37 PM (SmUfB)
--I wonder how many Kostards look like him?
Even DMXroid looks like a lady's man by comparison.
Posted by: logprof at January 13, 2011 09:39 AM (BP6Z1)
Intellectually, there's little difference between Loopner and Alvin Greene.
He's not a retard; he's just stupid...and evil.
And he isn't sick. He's a sick fuck.
He knows the difference between right and wrong. He did this for attention. End of story.
Posted by: Soothsayer3P0 at January 13, 2011 09:40 AM (uFokq)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at January 13, 2011 09:41 AM (SJ6/3)
Yes he is nuttier than a jar of Planters, but he obviously knew he was doing wrong and he planned it in advance. Both of those qualify him for the juice.
I would prefer he get the electricity juice but I think AZ has a choice between firing squad and the needle.
My money goes on "Guilty by Reason of Insanity". Not executable, but definately lock up for life-able.
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 13, 2011 09:41 AM (Ty06w)
Posted by: Nighthawk at January 13, 2011 09:41 AM (02uN6)
Posted by: runningrn at January 13, 2011 09:41 AM (ihSHD)
Ace, you don't think Loopner is right now receiving fan mail and marriage proposals from dozens of women?
Posted by: Soothsayer3P0 at January 13, 2011 09:41 AM (uFokq)
Posted by: toby928™ at January 13, 2011 09:41 AM (S5YRY)
Posted by: runningrn at January 13, 2011 09:42 AM (ihSHD)
Posted by: SuperMag at January 13, 2011 09:43 AM (A8nw6)
Speaking of crazy, Rush is playing audio from the Wellstone Memorial.
I didn't think anything could out-crass that spectacle.
Boy was I ever wrong.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at January 13, 2011 09:43 AM (pLTLS)
Perfect post except for that line, Ace. "[...] them c--- educators [...]"? Perhaps it's grammatically correct for Appalachia. But in standard English, "them" wouldn't be proper; "those" would be the correct word.
Posted by: Alex at January 13, 2011 09:43 AM (/yzYn)
What I find fascinating is what these kinds of people latch onto. What do they find interesting and what do they try to emulate?
I think it's clear he fancied himself one of these deconstructionist academics.
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 09:43 AM (BvBKY)
What would do we without yootoob?
Who knew we had so many musically-talented dogs and cats in the world...
Posted by: Soothsayer3P0 at January 13, 2011 09:44 AM (uFokq)
It's Sarah Palin's fault that he's a loser. Had the poor unfortunate young man who is the poster child for one payer government mental health services had access to free mental treatment, we'd all be happy socialists now
Posted by: The MFM at January 13, 2011 09:44 AM (vdfwz)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at January 13, 2011 09:44 AM (fLHQe)
Posted by: Holger at January 13, 2011 09:44 AM (YxGud)
Posted by: joncelli at January 13, 2011 09:44 AM (RD7QR)
I also do the same when I see a long post by Ace.
So imagine what I thought when I read this:
"Jesus Christ All Mighty. This sick fuck is the biggest loser in the history of the earth."
Yep, I assumed the post was about Obama.
Posted by: Y-not at January 13, 2011 09:44 AM (pW2o8)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 09:45 AM (Ez4Ql)
Here. I brought you this dried out cat turd from under my parent's bushes. Isn't it neat to look at?
What? You don't like CATS??!?!!?!
Posted by: s'moron at January 13, 2011 09:45 AM (UaxA0)
Posted by: eman at January 13, 2011 09:45 AM (0aJSF)
I wonder if this guy made political contributions.
How? He couldn't even find a minimum wage job.
Ergo, Obama's fault.
Posted by: laceyunderalls using the shittastic logic of the left to prove faulty premises at January 13, 2011 09:45 AM (pLTLS)
I don't know if I can really get behind this. The mocking of him, I mean.
As far as I can tell, this guy is legitimately sick. Schizophrenic. Not guilty by reason of insanity. And all of that.
I think you are giving him "agency." And if he has agency, then he is capable of being a political type, and this could be a political "assasination."
Which is what the left is trying to making this into.
So in a way, I sort of feel sorry for him, not really personally pissed.
I feel a lot more sorry for the dead and injured and their families.
But this Jared Loughner guy? He's like a mad dog that bites someone. You put the mad dog down, because it's dangerous. And it can't be cured. But you don't really blame the dog personally. It's mad, after all.
Same with him. We either put him down, or keep him locked up for rest of his life.
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 09:46 AM (emG8W)
What sets men apart from animals is the ability, to sum up (without discussing the whole thing) to put off the fulfillment of desires- sometimes to the point of giving up that fulfillment all together. (Yes, there's more, before the Moron philosophy brigade attacks)
And, to be clear, he's not an animal because he killed those people, he killed those people because he's an animal.
I don't even know, theologically / philosophically that he's "evil." Evil requires deliberation. I don't think he's capable of that.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 13, 2011 09:46 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 09:47 AM (Ez4Ql)
Even discussing his political motivation is about as useful as discussing with my schizophrenic grandma why the ATM isn't reading her mind, and how there aren't actually rape squads hiding in her attic.
Posted by: sentwest at January 13, 2011 09:47 AM (MGc1a)
Posted by: Kos at January 13, 2011 09:47 AM (yFt7r)
Two questions, WTF is up with his parents. Something VERY weird there.
Second, how long before someone want so "publish" his diary? Remember his friend said it would explain the crazy.
I still can not get over the MSM jumping the nut on conservatives with an obviously total fucking crazy pothead.
I know they are pissed that he wasn't who they thought he was, but really how fucking stupid can you be?
Posted by: Kemp at January 13, 2011 09:47 AM (JpFM9)
Speaking of crazy, Rush is playing audio from the Wellstone Memorial.
I didn't think anything could out-crass that spectacle.
Boy was I ever wrong.
Ain't that the truth.
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 13, 2011 09:47 AM (Ty06w)
I'll actually say he probably hasn't. Yes, women will propose to a heartless murderer, a brutal rapist, or a violent fanatic when they are famous and in prison.
But they won't go near a weirdo with a ten foot poll. And this guy is a weirdo.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 13, 2011 09:47 AM (TpXEI)
Posted by: katya, the designated driver at January 13, 2011 09:48 AM (ZTkqO)
Posted by: Ace at January 13, 2011 09:48 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: Chief Blathers on Incessantly at January 13, 2011 09:48 AM (SJ6/3)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 09:48 AM (BvBKY)
Hopefully those wingnut Republicans in Congress will keep their mouth shut when the President appoints me to an important post at Homeland Security
Posted by: Sheriff Barney Dupnik at January 13, 2011 09:48 AM (vdfwz)
I didn't think anything could out-crass that spectacle.
Boy was I ever wrong.
I never thought that we could ever have another Precedent and Foist Lady who could out-crass Bill and Hill. Boy, was I wrong!
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 09:49 AM (ihSHD)
No doubt. But now that he famous and is (and forever will be) incarcerated, he will no doubt get all kinds of marriage proposals.
I had a college roommate who became a Lutheran minister, was convicted of his wife's murder, was in prison for about 25 years, was married while still in prison, and after release on parole, is now a marriage counselor.
Posted by: profligatewaste at January 13, 2011 09:50 AM (b3rrc)
Damn you're right; I missed that. Too bad, I thought it was a funny observation.
He fails so hard at everything he failed me.
Posted by: Ace at January 13, 2011 01:48 PM (nj1bB)
So his streak is unbroken, then.
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 09:50 AM (BvBKY)
Posted by: The Mega Indepedent at January 13, 2011 09:50 AM (nH5Ar)
Posted by: Ace at January 13, 2011 09:50 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: Jared "Sloth from The Goonies" Loughner at January 13, 2011 09:50 AM (KO2Cj)
So, will he get the chair?
Yeah, a comfy, plush upholstered recliner. He's going to plead insanity. (Or his lawyers will enter that plea).
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 09:51 AM (ihSHD)
I would prefer Jared-the-Bald be referred to as Heidi the Cross Eyed Opossum, but cut the crap and call him Possum, as the "O" has no meaning (as witnessed since November 200
. However, I am concerned about the Heidi's this may incite from this suggestion.
Also, could someone, please, photoshop un glasses onto the mug shot? Thanks. The Charles Manson laser death rays are freaky (along with his numerous icky moles, not to incite moles).
Posted by: ChristieBlinky at January 13, 2011 09:51 AM (zFyaZ)
How many fools will fall for it and for how long?
Don't know, ask Drew.
Posted by: Kemp at January 13, 2011 09:51 AM (JpFM9)
Posted by: Jeff B. at January 13, 2011 09:51 AM (NjYDy)
He wanted to be known as a monster? Okay. He's a monster, then.
Somewhere we got this idea that it would be good if they didn't get their wishes. Almost like justice is some form of revenge. Justice based on revenge, however, would not be morally tenable- it would eventually lead to its own downfall.
As far as denying him his glory: what glory? It exists only in his own mind- where it will exist regardless of what we do about it.
"Let the other guy die for his country. Then you'll both have the same goal in mind."
Okay, let the guy gain his "glory" by being executed and excoriated. Both have the same goal in mind- his excoriation and execution.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 13, 2011 09:51 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: kevinaw2 at January 13, 2011 09:52 AM (zv1xG)
If paranoid schizophrenia has a physiological basis–if it’s a disease of brain chemistry not a psychological malady, as seems to be case–and if Loughner was a paranoid schizophrenic with chemically caused and ungovernable delusions, urges, and impulses, then he is not responsible for his actions. Yes, he needs to be locked up. But blame a cruel fate not his character for what he did. Or blame God. I don’t know.
Concerning Loughner and his illness Â… IÂ’m a Catholic, and I love Catholicism and the Catholic Church, and I love Catholic theology too. But like all Christians I have my doubts. Such banal and common doubts, but even so I have them, namely: why would a loving God inflict on Loughner one of the cruelest fates imaginable, that of being afflicted with paranoid schizophrenia? This is a problem for me, a practicing Catholic. Evil is a problem for me, and I deem paranoid schizophrenia to be a kind of evil.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 09:52 AM (AonDb)
Posted by: eman at January 13, 2011 09:53 AM (0aJSF)
I just don't see where making fun of him is productive in any way.
Posted by: sentwest at January 13, 2011 09:53 AM (MGc1a)
Posted by: Joanie (Oven Gloves) at January 13, 2011 09:53 AM (HaYO4)
Steven Cowan of Wisconsin is the lunatic Democrat who got so angry at "the politics" involved in Dancing With The Stars he threatened his wife with a shotgun and then shot his television, finally surrendering himself to the police after a 15-hour standoff.
But who's Steven Cowan? He's fucking nobody because...shut up, that's why.
Posted by: Soothsayer al dente at January 13, 2011 09:53 AM (uFokq)
Heidi doesn't deserve that...
Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 13, 2011 09:54 AM (4ucxv)
He's obviously a very ill person, and needs to be put away for everyone's good including our own.
No, he needs to be severely punished for what he did.
Posted by: Soothsayer al dente at January 13, 2011 09:54 AM (uFokq)
Justice based on revenge, however,
That's why I don't like the word.
Social Justice is nothing but bitter vengance.
And MLK, Jr. said "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 09:54 AM (BvBKY)
Posted by: joeindc44 at January 13, 2011 09:55 AM (QxSug)
That's all Loughner's questions are. He, wrongly, thinks he's in the vanguard of asking such questions, so when he asks "How many stars in the universe?" he intends it to be a stunner for his audience. When his interlocutor gives him an answer -- with a formula and everything -- he's not interested, because it was never his intent to actually find an answer; it was his intent to be praised for asking the question, and he's disappointed that it turns out to be something a lot of people have already thought about and, in fact, pretty much answered.
...is a genuine, honest-to-goodness psychological insight. Most people don't pick up on this, but it absolutely is what motivates these folks.
Posted by: Jeff B. at January 13, 2011 09:55 AM (NjYDy)
47 It seems like the feds, once they find someone incompetent to stand trial, just ship them off to a psych hospital.
And they're evaled on a regular basis as to if they've improved enough to stand trial. Then they can go to trial and be sentenced. Most of the time, if the're IST (Incapbable of Standing Trial) when they do become capable (one step up) they still get an insanity judgement (either NGRI or GRI).
Court ordered pending evals are different and usually they come and go pretty quickly.
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 13, 2011 09:55 AM (Ty06w)
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 09:56 AM (AonDb)
Posted by: dagny at January 13, 2011 09:57 AM (+Z6ve)
Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord© at January 13, 2011 09:57 AM (GBXon)
Rage at his actions is one thing, but taking down everyone with a mentally-ill relative is another. Pretty sad.
Posted by: not again at January 13, 2011 09:57 AM (gbCNS)
I'm not big on ridiculing the truly mentally ill. Mental illness is horrible and it has to be very difficult for their families. When his friend talked about him describing the trees as blue and the grass as orange, you know the guy has a screw loose.
Loggnawed liked him some drugs, oh yes he did. One of his favorites was salvia divinorum among others. There is a reason that the other drugs are illegal and legislators around the world are busy writing laws prohibiting salvia divinorum. They make you crazy, mentally unstable, unable to reach a common intellectual concensus with the rest of your fellows in society.
If Loggnawed had a free hand in increasing his own mental instability, and who among us isn't a little crazy at times, then the responsibility for that mental illness is largely his own.
Are drunk drivers held responsible for the people they kill?
Posted by: Speller at January 13, 2011 09:57 AM (J74Py)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 09:57 AM (Ez4Ql)
Posted by: JackStraw at January 13, 2011 09:58 AM (TMB3S)
But who's Steven Cowan? He's fucking nobody because...shut up, that's why.
Posted by: Soothsayer al dente at January 13, 2011 01:53 PM (uFokq)
Clearly that was all Sarah Palin's fault. Why can't you wingers see that?
Posted by: A liberal who just wants civility, you racist Republicans at January 13, 2011 09:58 AM (BvBKY)
I had a college roommate who became a Lutheran minister, was convicted of his wife's murder, was in prison for about 25 years, was married while still in prison, and after release on parole, is now a marriage counselor.
Well, at least he served 25 years. We had this guy released from prison in 2009 (from KOMO news):
PORT ANGELES - Clallam County Superior Court Judge is expected to sign an order Wednesday conditionally releasing Dr. Bruce Rowan from Western State Hospital.
In 1998, Rowan killed his wife Debbie using a baseball bat and an ax, and then staging an automobile accident to make it appear Debbie died that way.
A jury found him not guilty by reason of insanity. And now, after seven years at Western State, the doctors report that Rowan's condition has stabilized.
Three years ago, doctors convinced a court to allow Rowan to move into a less-secure part of Western State, with permission to travel out side on community visits. Wednesday's order will allow Rowan to leave with several conditions, one being that he must meet with his therapist once a week for the next six months.
A Clallam County prosecutor notified the judge that she has no legal argument against the release. The judge received letters from Debbie Rowan's family, but court officials say the judge is expected to sign the order after brief telephone conversations with Rowan, his attorney and a representative of Western State.
But several people in Port Angeles, who clearly remember what happened seven years ago, expressed concern about the system. Willard Nordman told KOMO 4 News, "This insanity thing; if he could plan the murder and try to make it look like a car wreck, doesn't seem like he was really insane."
Diana Freschette added, "I think we are all responsible for the things we do, and whether you are on drugs or suffer from insanity, I think we all need to responsible."
When Rowan last appeared in court in 2002, he told the judge he did not anticipate becoming a doctor again, saying "I don't think the community would accept that." He added that when he's released, he might go back to school, training to become a medical technician so he could use his expertise.
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 09:58 AM (ihSHD)
I'm a little tired of the too easy game of kicking the mad dog. Don't want to play. Mocking and blaming him for his language deficits and thought disorders is a little like mocking and blaming someone with spina biifda for walking in an oddly conspicuous way or a blind person for knocking over things in his path.
His mind is quite literally diseased, and the nature of his illness such that he doesn't comprehend that.
He doesn't say "conscience" for "conscious" out of spite, though I suppose like any impaired person he's stupid. It's not jokeworthy, though. that kind of word substitution is typical of his melting brain. It isn't really funny to me.
For more info, here is a fairly accessible paper (lots of definitions, it's linguists reviewing research and interpreting in linguitic terms)
http://tinyurl.com/4e54yy3 Or just google schizophrenia and language.
People don't seen to want to come to terms with the real nature of mental illness. He's weak and sick and he should have been under supervision and medication a long time ago. Not that there is any way to force it now. There ought to be.
Posted by: SarahW at January 13, 2011 09:59 AM (Z4T49)
Posted by: t-bird at January 13, 2011 09:59 AM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Soothsayer al dente at January 13, 2011 01:53 PM (uFokq)
Clearly that was all Sarah Palin's fault. Why can't you wingers see that?
Actually, it was Bristol Palin's fault, but close enough!
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 09:59 AM (ihSHD)
I think Ace started making fun of killers after the Virginia Tech shooting, perpetrated by whatever the asshole's name was. Reasoning therefor being that to the extent there may be "Category 3" people out there (see Ace's post yesterday) who might also seek to be remembered as a monster for some horrific act (cf. a certain subset of society's fascination with serial killers), they would not be encouraged if such killers were simply mocked and had their names quickly forgotten.
Posted by: Alex at January 13, 2011 09:59 AM (/yzYn)
I didn't think anything could out-crass that spectacle.
Boy was I ever wrong.
Posted by: laceyunderalls at January 13, 2011 01:43 PM (pLTLS)
They don't call them Progressives for nothing.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 09:59 AM (z1N6a)
Posted by: laceyunderalls using the shittastic logic of the left to prove faulty premises at January 13, 2011 09:59 AM (pLTLS)
I would normally buy into this argument had it not been for the agency The Biggest Loser In The Fucking Universe expressed in his notes in his safe. He knew what he was doing. He knew it was "evil" in the sense that *we* know it to be evil. And that's why he wanted to do it -- because, yes, he's a deranged maniac. But not so deranged that he could not tell right from wrong. (After all, "die bitch" and "I planned ahead" and "my assassination" all directly imply that he knew what he was doing was truly hateful.)
He could tell the difference. And he wanted to practice evil because it validated his failure of a life.
Fuck him, forever.
Posted by: Jeff B. at January 13, 2011 10:00 AM (NjYDy)
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 01:46 PM (emG8W)
I actually just went and researched the current Law on Federal Insanity defense..
Apparently the Defense will have to proove that he did not know he was doing wrong at the time of the crime... other mental illness is no longer a defense.
So, bat shit crazy? Yep.... Insanity defense? problematic as it will be hard to proove he did not know he was doing wrong, but just did not care.
I think he'll get the Guilty but Insane type of verdict, and be in and out of therapy and Jail the rest of his life... even though I'd rather see him fry... I think the "bleeding heart" crowd would go nuts if we executed him.
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 13, 2011 10:00 AM (AdK6a)
Peace be to the earthworms crawling under the west door.
Posted by: Chief Preaches at Pep-Rally at January 13, 2011 10:00 AM (KO2Cj)
Extra Credit: If your Messiah sucks, isn't that on you?
Ewww! I got a visual of Obama's blue lips wrapped around a teeny, tiny limp wee wee.
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 10:00 AM (ihSHD)
Are drunk drivers held responsible for the people they kill?
The difference is they choose to drink and when they don't drink are (usually) capable humans.
This kid? Is menally ill.... it's awful, he's scary, but bottom line, he can't 'make himself' normal.
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 13, 2011 10:00 AM (Ty06w)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 10:00 AM (Ez4Ql)
Posted by: katya, the designated driver at January 13, 2011 01:48 PM (ZTkqO)
How do you sharpen your instincts for empathy? That's a tough one.
Posted by: dagny at January 13, 2011 10:00 AM (+Z6ve)
If it's legit, he needs to be sequestered for life, for everyone's sake.
If it's not, and he's just some punk, he needs to be put down. (After fair and proper trial and process.)
Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord© at January 13, 2011 10:01 AM (GBXon)
But the examination of an evil act by a deranged imbecile is at the heart of placing responsibility...do you think cats are aware of their whiskers?...where it truly lies. One of the key differences... Why do women say "No" to me with their mouths, but "Yes" with their eyes and slutty outfits?... between Right and Left is the assumption of responsibility where it belongs, vs. the deflection of responsibility... Why does so much depend on a red wheelbarrow?... away from the self and onto external forces; society, ideology, intolerance, bad parenting, etc. When I do something and take responsibility for it... Do heads go on living for a few seconds after they get chopped off? If so, how come they don't say anything?... I am committing a moral sin, according to those on the left. To them, we are not at fault, because external triggers... Do you think Jodie Foster is still pretty?... equal causality. What was once laughable to them ("The devil made me do it")...Why do birds suddenly appear every time there is a corpse?... has now become the cause du jour. Simply replace "devil" with ... What is air?... "abusive parents" and voila! Deflected responsibility! Examining a nutcase like this pours water on the fire of "not my fault". This guy knew what he was doing as much... Do spiders think?... as Charles Manson did, and he needs to fry for it.
"This sick fuck is the biggest loser in the history of the earth."
I know you're speaking in hyperbole, so allow me to offer an accurate assessment: Look at his pictures, look at the idiotic things he posted on line.
Laughner is merely the Ralph Wiggum of evil.
Posted by: g at January 13, 2011 10:01 AM (IHFo6)
Posted by: MrCaniac at January 13, 2011 10:01 AM (oREHE)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at January 13, 2011 10:02 AM (SJ6/3)
I'd just as soon forget about him altogether. Had a Democrat Congresswoman not been involved this story would have been yesterday's news already.
FIFY!
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 10:02 AM (ihSHD)
Posted by: Jeff B. at January 13, 2011 02:00 PM (NjYDy)
Good points... and it will be an interesting test of our current Judicial system...
Currently they don't believe in EVIL... just Insanity... but Evil does exist (although bleeding hearts and Atheists do not want to believe it).
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 13, 2011 10:03 AM (AdK6a)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 10:03 AM (Ez4Ql)
Read Genesis 2, all of Job, and most of Ezekiel. You'll figure it out.
God did not, in any active way, afflict Jerod Laughner with schizophrenia. At worst, he allowed it to happen.
As a Christian, you should be aware that the fate of this piece of dust we call a body is not principally important to God. He cares, yes, but he cares much, much more about our Soul than about our flesh. He cares more about us than this vessel in which we're contained.
Evil entered the world through Lucifer's hate, and Man's pride. God did not invent evil, neither does he inflict it on anyone. He does allow evil because the only way to get rid of it is to return- which will destroy this world. He does not return, yet, for reasons of His own. Presumably "until the number is complete," but you'll have to ask Him when you get to see Him.
Whether Jerod Laughner was an evil monster, or a poor, sick man, we'll never know. We can only deal with the facts as we, mere mortals, can perceive them. And those facts are this: Jerod Laughner is someone who, for whatever reason, cannot restrain his baser instinct when it comes to confrontation. He felt belittled and besmirched by Rep. Gabrielle Gifford (by many accounts) and decided that the only way he could re-assert his position was by killing her- and anyone else in the vicinity. Whether this stems from mental problems or just evil is not germane: anyone unable to prevent themselves from committing mass murder is not someone Society can afford to have around- he must be removed from the civil society.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 13, 2011 10:03 AM (8y9MW)
Bush allows Brisbane to be destroyed.
Yup, because ecotard Bush was out there protesting and disallowing the building of a crucial dam that could have helped prevent this catastrophe. It's just like Katrina all over again, and Bush doesn't give a dam...
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 10:03 AM (ihSHD)
That sentence is profoundly distasteful. I like bread, even my own badly made bread. Why couldn't you compare him to a tranny ewok or something else other than good wholesome bread.
Posted by: Follower of Cthulhu, former republican at January 13, 2011 10:03 AM (F/4zf)
Posted by: Cherry π at January 13, 2011 10:04 AM (+sBB4)
Which is why Loughner is probably going to fry. The notes he left (see my earlier post) clearly indicate sufficient mens rea to prove he knew he was doing something wrong.
Posted by: Jeff B. at January 13, 2011 10:04 AM (NjYDy)
Real brave there Senator Wishy-Washy. It's not like you would have won anyway.
Posted by: dogfish at January 13, 2011 10:04 AM (NuPNl)
He was all Thorazined up and oddly lucid but placid. The interviewer asked him if he thought he would ever be released and he showed the only emotion of the entire interview. His eyes flashed panic and he whispered No, please no. I will just do it again, the Voices are telling me to kill you right now.
Sad and chilling.
Some people are just fucking doomed.
Posted by: toby928™ at January 13, 2011 10:04 AM (S5YRY)
This is a very interesting question...
I wonder if he meant "hit" as in punch or as in "I'd hit it".
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at January 13, 2011 10:04 AM (IoUF1)
Are drunk drivers held responsible for the people they kill?
No silly! Everyone knows it's Budweiser, Miller, insert the name of your favorite manufacturer of alcoholic beverages name.
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 10:05 AM (ihSHD)
Posted by: Alex #11 at January 13, 2011 10:05 AM (LcJmR)
Smooth.
Posted by: Julian Assange at January 13, 2011 10:05 AM (saRwI)
Which is why Loughner is probably going to fry. The notes he left (see my earlier post) clearly indicate sufficient mens rea to prove he knew he was doing something wrong.
I respectfully disagree. Now if he could be directly linked to the Tea Party or Sarah Palin, then he would fry. They would then have the blood of yet another person on their hands.
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 10:06 AM (ihSHD)
Is Laughner Insane?
Or is he just Evil?
Who says he can't be both? Plus a heaping helping of "fat-ass failure" as well?
Posted by: Jeff B. at January 13, 2011 10:07 AM (NjYDy)
People like that want publicity; what he did was not so uncommon.
He is simply the embodiment of a variety of systems that failed. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad case that would have been completely ignored if he didn't go after one of Obama's elected minions.
Posted by: shibumi at January 13, 2011 10:07 AM (OKZrE)
Posted by: Jeff B. at January 13, 2011 02:04 PM (NjYDy)
I'd agree if this was State Court...
But this is Eric Holder's decision... I don't think they will even really try for the death penalty... they'll throw the case of death, just like the did in court for DADT.
Posted by: Romeo13 at January 13, 2011 10:08 AM (AdK6a)
To paraphrase CS Lewis: Ask yourself, "What would I do if I were more empathic." Then go do that.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 13, 2011 10:09 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: joncelli at January 13, 2011 10:09 AM (RD7QR)
We're absolutely certain that a misogynist women-hater clung to Sarah Palin's every word like it was fucking gospel.
Posted by: Chickenfuckers at January 13, 2011 10:10 AM (IoUF1)
He's crazy but...
The media is more diabolical. They are seeking to take her out. And it's pretty obvious by now they will use any means necessary. And feel justified in doing so.
Posted by: laceyunderalls using the shittastic logic of the left to prove faulty premises at January 13, 2011 10:10 AM (pLTLS)
Are drunk drivers held responsible for the people they kill?
No silly! Everyone knows it's Budweiser, Miller, insert the name of your favorite manufacturer of alcoholic beverages name.
And the retailer, restaurant, or tavern that sold it to them.
Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 13, 2011 10:10 AM (4ucxv)
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 13, 2011 02:00 PM
Sure, ignore everything I wrote above that which suggests he may have had some responsibility for the state of his mental health. It' makes you look smarter if you take people's comments out of context doesn't it?
No wait, you weren't trying to look smarter, you just didn't comprehend it.
Posted by: Speller at January 13, 2011 10:10 AM (J74Py)
A bit of begging the question perhaps. It's just as likely that he was drawn to drugs because of his unstable nature.
Plus, one of his acquaintances noted that he had stopped taking drugs in 2007ish, and his condition became more pronounced, not less.
Posted by: goldbricker esq at January 13, 2011 10:11 AM (h2t8r)
Ugh.
This rant actually disgusted me. Making fun of a schizophrenic for being a loser is kinda like making fun of a heart attack sufferer for being too weak to lift weights.
Ugh^2.
Posted by: best thief in Lanhkmar at January 13, 2011 10:11 AM (iXWYc)
"His former girlfriend is saying he was actually quite intelligent. WTF?"
Is this "person" a turnip with hair?
Posted by: Joanie (Oven Gloves) at January 13, 2011 10:12 AM (HaYO4)
Posted by: SarahW at January 13, 2011 01:59 PM (Z4T49)
It's not like the movies--- Silence of the Lambs or One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest.
Without the killing, this kid is pretty typical in behavior (though as someone pointed out, a bit more disorganized) of the institutionalized mentally ill.
They're miserable pitiful, sometimes funny, often scary, but mostly very sad.
BTW, for him to be admitted, his family would have had to take action, get a Dr and get him sent in for an eval. Did they drop the ball? I don't know. But once dx'd, once on meds, once 'in the system' there would have been more mechanisms in place to reign him in later if he got out of control and went off his meds.
As far as evil goes, they do stand out--- you see, the evil ones are usually sane.
Seriously.
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 13, 2011 10:12 AM (Ty06w)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at January 13, 2011 10:12 AM (SJ6/3)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 10:12 AM (BvBKY)
Posted by: Suzy at January 13, 2011 10:12 AM (axEOG)
Ugh.
This rant actually disgusted me. Making
fun of a schizophrenic for being a loser is kinda like making fun of a
heart attack sufferer for being too weak to lift weights.
Ugh^2.
Posted by: best thief in Lanhkmar at January 13, 2011 02:11 PM (iXWYc)
I'd save any sympathy for the dead and their families.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 10:12 AM (z1N6a)
Posted by: joncelli at January 13, 2011 10:13 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: cali grump at January 13, 2011 10:13 AM (hL0k8)
Much like the Emperor was to embarrassed to contradict the makers of his new clothes.
I'm guessing she assumed he was smart because everything he said confused her just as it would have confused any other sane human being.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 13, 2011 10:13 AM (tf9Ne)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 10:14 AM (Ez4Ql)
Mental illness is horrible and it has to be very difficult for their families. When his friend talked about him describing the trees as blue and the grass as orange, you know the guy has a screw loose.
Sometimes, mental illness can have good outcomes. We got some interesting paintings out of Van Gogh.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 13, 2011 10:14 AM (yIZJ3)
Posted by: Conservative Phantom at January 13, 2011 10:14 AM (rPEr/)
"His former girlfriend is saying he was actually quite intelligent. WTF?"
Is this "person" a turnip with hair?
Earlier this morning her Facebook page was wide open (it's private now). From the few posts I saw, she wasn't all that impressive.
Posted by: Bomber at January 13, 2011 10:15 AM (qzoN5)
This is actually a refreshing detour from the usual "finding myself" questions young "adults" ask themselves. Such as; "Who am I?" and "Does God exist?".
Posted by: katya, the designated driver at January 13, 2011 01:48 PM (ZTkqO)
As they approached college age, I told our two children that if they had a yearning hunger to "find themselves", military service would help them answer the question PDQ.
Posted by: ya2daup at January 13, 2011 10:15 AM (FcKXR)
Some people are just fucking doomed.
Posted by: toby928™ at January 13, 2011 02:04 PM (S5YRY)
Yep.
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 13, 2011 10:15 AM (Ty06w)
"His former girlfriend is saying he was actually quite intelligent. WTF?"
Is this "person" a turnip with hair?
Cough, cough, Latex Lady Friend, cough.
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 10:16 AM (ihSHD)
Plus, one of his acquaintances noted that he had stopped taking drugs in 2007ish, and his condition became more pronounced, not less.~goldbricker esq
Yeah, the "stopped taking drugs" is the part to focus on. You can't unpoach an egg. It should also be remembered that his vacation from drugs was temporary.
Posted by: Speller at January 13, 2011 10:16 AM (J74Py)
I'm sorry to waste everyone's time "fisking" a mental defective; but I sort of think the exercise is useful, to deny him what he wants, and on a personal level, it's cathartic to vent hate at a truly hateful thing.
THANK YOU. The disgusting lard tub wants to be treated like he's something special, when he's nothing but a failure. A boring, boorish, stupid failure. We should do everything we can to make him feel how insignificant he is.
Ace, I say this and mean it sincerely: this is the best post you've written about this whole thing (and I'm including the "Category 3" post in that!).
Posted by: MWR at January 13, 2011 10:16 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Nighthawk at January 13, 2011 10:16 AM (02uN6)
--------------------------------------------------------
No, he needs to be severely punished for what he did.
--------------------------------------------------------
@ 88 - Severely punishing a mentally ill and delusional person is inhumane. If it is shown that he is in control of his faculties he should be punished. But otherwise we should have some pity.
I have a delusional schizophrenic in the family, so I know from whence I speak.
Posted by: sentwest at January 13, 2011 10:17 AM (MGc1a)
Posted by: joncelli at January 13, 2011 02:09 PM (RD7QR)
I'll have to withhold judgement until I hear his former girlfriend speak. It may be a low bar she's using as a standard.
Posted by: Tami-posthumously apologizing to her parents for not handing out T-shirts at their funerals at January 13, 2011 10:17 AM (VuLos)
FIFY.
Posted by: Kemp at January 13, 2011 10:17 AM (JpFM9)
147 What would I do if I were more empathetic?
Hand out chocolate I guess.
Empathy is a response to people who are undergoing a situation that you yourself have experienced and so instead of feeling sympathy for them you can project your own past experience onto them and feel what they are feeling now. If you haven't experienced an event you cannot empathize. I can empathize with someone who lost thier father to cancer but I can only sympathize with someone who is recovering from a car accident because I've never been in one.
How to sharpen the instinct for empathy. First that assumes that empathy is an auto response not an intellectual one. Instincts are lower level nervous system responses. To sharpen an instinct would require performing the activity over and over--like catching a ball so that it was instinctual not conscious. I don't see how you can practice feeling what someone else is feeling because you had the same experience.
It's nonsense.
Posted by: dagny at January 13, 2011 10:18 AM (+Z6ve)
Posted by: BlackOrchid at January 13, 2011 10:18 AM (SB0V2)
Punishment is not solely about the offender. The whole world is watching.
Posted by: Bomber at January 13, 2011 10:19 AM (qzoN5)
I'll have to withhold judgement until I hear his former girlfriend speak. It may be a low bar she's using as a standard.
Hey, the kid sounds pretty much right up my alley.
Posted by: Noam Chomsky at January 13, 2011 10:19 AM (BvBKY)
I have a delusional schizophrenic in the family, so I know from whence I speak.
Posted by: sentwest at January 13, 2011 02:17 PM (MGc1a)
He managed to control his gun pretty well for his purposes. Next Question.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 10:19 AM (z1N6a)
Like someone said the other day, old yeller was a "nice" dog until he went rabid and had to be put down.
Posted by: Vic at January 13, 2011 10:19 AM (M9Ie6)
She hadn't seen him in over 4 years, and conceded he was very different the last time she saw him.
That said, I don't think the guy was a schizo. I think he was a guy who spent a lot of time alone and started to just get demented in his own little echo chamber.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 13, 2011 10:19 AM (TpXEI)
Posted by: BlackOrchid at January 13, 2011 10:20 AM (SB0V2)
'Posthumously' used in that way means that you are dead. That's officially taking the speech too hard.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 10:21 AM (z1N6a)
Peace.
At least, that's what the current and former presidents both seem to think.
Posted by: Bomber at January 13, 2011 10:21 AM (qzoN5)
I am starting to think Sarah should drop completely out of public for at least a year. No books, no Fox News, no Facebook, nothing.
Wait - doesn't that give the Left what they want?
No, it gives the country that won't wake up exactly what it deserves. And when the country is ready to listen to the truth and re-embrace a sense of fairness and justice, maybe she could be bothered.
Until then, she should just make herself and her family happy and safe.
Posted by: grognard at January 13, 2011 10:21 AM (NS2Mo)
We know that Loughner was allegedly stalking Giffords since at least 2007, right? Does anyone think one of his failed flirtations was directed at her? Like, he liked her a lot, he went to a fundraiser, he shook her hand, she smiled at him, and the loser bitchboy took that to mean she was actually INTERESTED in him? And then when nothing came of it, he became obsessed and transfixed.
Could be something, could be nothing. I just find it an intriguing question.
Posted by: MWR at January 13, 2011 10:21 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Astro at January 13, 2011 10:21 AM (oooW5)
Even DMXroid looks like a lady's man by comparison.
Posted by: logprof at January 13, 2011 01:39 PM (BP6Z1)
They do tend to be ugly, unstable people with strange facial expressions and fucked up misshapen heads.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at January 13, 2011 10:21 AM (IoUF1)
Don't forget the drugs. He took a LOT of drugs.
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 10:21 AM (BvBKY)
Posted by: dagny at January 13, 2011 10:22 AM (+Z6ve)
'Posthumously' used in that way means that you are dead. That's officially taking the speech too hard.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 02:21 PM (z1N6a)
I think she meant "Pre-posthumously"
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at January 13, 2011 10:22 AM (Ty06w)
"In 1999, he was appointed Commissioner to the United States Mexico Border Health Commission by President Bill Clinton."
Posted by: Cherry ð at January 13, 2011 02:21 PM (+sBB4)
Ah, so that explains the wildly inappropriate start to this rally.
He's a well-connected Democrat.
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 10:23 AM (BvBKY)
Posted by: Dave C at January 13, 2011 10:24 AM (p13tD)
Ed? Allah? Drew?
No, Boehner didn’t “snub” memorial rally
The MFM doesn't cross a t or dot an i before checking with the Journolist crowd. This continuing smear campaign is going on with the full encouragement if not direction from the White House
Posted by: kbdabear at January 13, 2011 10:24 AM (vdfwz)
Posted by: Nighthawk at January 13, 2011 10:24 AM (02uN6)
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 02:21 PM (z1N6a)
hahaha....I had the word in another line I was going to use and changed it, and forgot to remove 'posthumously'....
I'm dead from the neck up.
Posted by: Tami- apologizing to her parents for not handing out T-shirts at their funerals at January 13, 2011 10:25 AM (VuLos)
Posted by: joncelli at January 13, 2011 10:25 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: cmt at January 13, 2011 10:26 AM (yi+Bl)
Posted by: joncelli at January 13, 2011 10:26 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: Rod Rescueman at January 13, 2011 10:26 AM (QxGmu)
Posted by: dagny at January 13, 2011 02:22 PM (+Z6ve)
Where do you find this? I can't find anything about the parents. In fact, since both are county workers, they ought to be members of the SEIU, who organized Pima Co. employees in 2007. Why don't we know anything about them?
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 10:26 AM (BvBKY)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at January 13, 2011 10:26 AM (SJ6/3)
This sick fuck is the biggest loser in the history of the earth.
Second-biggest loser.
I don't know who the biggest loser ever is or was, but I'm denying this guy all superlatives, even that one.
Posted by: FireHorse at January 13, 2011 10:26 AM (sWynj)
No, Boehner didn’t “snub” memorial rally
The MFM doesn't cross a t or dot an i before checking with the Journolist crowd. This continuing smear campaign is going on with the full encouragement if not direction from the White House
Posted by: kbdabear at January 13, 2011 02:24 PM (vdfwz)
I look forward to that guy who posted the slander 27 times to post this 27 times as well.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 10:26 AM (z1N6a)
Also, everyone is assuming he is schizophrenic, what if he is not, what if he is a psychopath or a sociopath. In NY, NGRI does not apply if your a psychopath or sociopath - on the grounds that people with these disorders know the rules of society but choose to ignore them or feel the rules don't apply to them.
Posted by: Penfold at January 13, 2011 10:27 AM (1PeEC)
Posted by: archie bunker at January 13, 2011 10:27 AM (0YS61)
71 >>>I don't know if I can really get behind this. The mocking of him, I mean.
pride of authoriship may be at work but I think it's a fantastic idea. Serial killers./mass-murders often seek fame and mystique. They think they'll get it because that's what previous ones have gotten.
What if they all knew in advance that this sort of thing would be their epitaph?
I see your point. And from a utilitarian perspective it works/logically holds together.
We don't mock a rabid labrador, because the labrador can't comprehend it is being mocked.
But Scott Peterson? (The guy in California who killed his pregnant wife and dumped her in the bay) Yeah, he can comprehend mockery.
But Scott Peterson isn't sick. Medically, I mean. That guy was just an evil SOB. So mockery of him is justified.
.
.
Still, I don't know. I think of Loughner. Obsesed with "Conscious Dreaming." That just screams out "I am hearing voices in my head." Also, telling a friend that he saw the sky as orange? Man...visual halucinations with voices in your head.
This isn't a moral authority card, but I have had close releations/interactions with two people with mental illnesses in my life. Both ended up getting committed, because they slowly went off the rails.
Looking back at it, could their behavior have been modified by mockery? I don't know. Maybe. For a short period of time. But I don't think it would have mattered in the end. And it feels like it would have been unnecessarily cruel too.
I mean, I suppose you could you usemockery to help shape the behavior of retarded children. "Hey retard! Why'd you smear the pudding? Retard! Retard! Retard! Don't smear the pudding and I won't call you retard, got it?"
I mean, I suppose that could work. But I'd feel like a real turd doing it.
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 10:27 AM (emG8W)
Wait - doesn't that give the Left what they want?
The Left wants her in the news all the time 24/7. What else would they have to talk about that grabs attention?
Allah would sit for hours staring at a blank Wordpress page if it weren't for Sarah Palin
They don't want her to go away, they want her to take her beatings with no pushback
Posted by: kbdabear at January 13, 2011 10:27 AM (vdfwz)
Posted by: Tami- apologizing to her parents for not handing out T-shirts at their funerals at
Trying not to laugh at this...Tami...oh my!
Posted by: laceyunderalls using the shittastic logic of the left to prove faulty premises at January 13, 2011 10:28 AM (pLTLS)
Posted by: Penfold at January 13, 2011 10:28 AM (1PeEC)
Posted by: nevergiveup at January 13, 2011 10:28 AM (0GFWk)
Actually, my non-brain-melting [college] students mix up conscience and conscious all the time. They don't understand the difference, and you can't beat it into them with a stick.
Posted by: Gail at January 13, 2011 10:28 AM (f46PC)
Next question: Is Stephanie Seymour a shitty mom?
Seymour is a Victoria's Secret model who likes to kiss her son and let him fondle her boobs on the beach.
But it's all good because her son, 17 year old shit-head Peter Brant is 'openly gay' and he and his siblings are just affectionate with their mom.
Posted by: Soothsayer3P0 at January 13, 2011 10:28 AM (uFokq)
Mental illness is horrible and it has to be very difficult for their families. When his friend talked about him describing the trees as blue and the grass as orange, you know the guy has a screw loose.
OR he wants people to think he's deep and interesting, when he is in fact nothing but a shallow pool of scum. Hence Ace's post.
I understand your point, but sorry, until a psychiatrist tells me this lump of flesh is a psycho who didn't understand the nature of his actions and was incapable of judging right from wrong, I'm not giving him a break for mental illness. There are plenty of people who are mentally ill who DON'T kill innocents and try to assassinate members of congress. They live miserable lives and they cause pain for themselves and their families, and that's tragic. But they can still tell right from wrong, and they abide by that. Once anyone crosses that line, they lose my sympahty.
Posted by: MWR at January 13, 2011 10:29 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: joncelli at January 13, 2011 10:29 AM (RD7QR)
The drugs kept him sane. it was when he stopped that he went mental.~arch bummer
So say the stoners he occasionally hung with. I'm sure they included clinical psychologists among their ranks./
Posted by: Speller at January 13, 2011 10:29 AM (J74Py)
Posted by: cali grump at January 13, 2011 10:30 AM (hL0k8)
Posted by: joncelli at January 13, 2011 02:29 PM (RD7QR)
What is Liberalism?
Posted by: Holger at January 13, 2011 10:30 AM (YxGud)
I think of Loughner. Obsesed with "Conscious Dreaming." That just screams out "I am hearing voices in my head."
What does "moral imagination" say to you?
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 10:30 AM (BvBKY)
A thousand words for the crazy guy, none for the victims.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 10:30 AM (z1N6a)
Posted by: FlaviusJulius at January 13, 2011 10:30 AM (SJ6/3)
Posted by: nevergiveup at January 13, 2011 10:30 AM (0GFWk)
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 02:26 PM (BvBKY)
I think you answered your own question.
Posted by: Bomber at January 13, 2011 10:30 AM (qzoN5)
Even DMXroid looks like a lady's man by comparison.
Posted by: logprof at January 13, 2011 01:39 PM
Since Kos himself looks like he's in the estrogen pills stage of gender reassignment therapy, they won't be mistaken for the Marlboro Man
Posted by: kbdabear at January 13, 2011 10:31 AM (vdfwz)
After Columbine I thought the proper media response would have been to always refer to the killers as homosexuals, whether or not it was true. And to repeat the allegation ad nauseum. The idea being that the next loon who got it into his head to try something like that would know that he'd go into the history books as "The Gay Such-and-Such Killer" and that might have some deterrant effect. I guess not if the guy actually was gay and didn't mind who knew it. And I suppose that the gay community might not like being associated with mass murderers. But I just thought it might be an effective strategy on adolescent males for whom the worst thing they can imagine is to be considered gay.
Maybe the idea could be tweaked a bit, but the idea is to embarrass the monsters (embarrassment being the thing that people with big egos fear most) rather than to give them cultural prominence.
Posted by: somebody else, not me at January 13, 2011 10:32 AM (7EV/g)
I've read Genesis, Job, and Ezekiel, and I haven't figured it out. I still have questions, and doubts.
Paranoid schizophrenia is a disease of the brain not of the mind. And evil is not a mental illness: it is a sickness of the soul.
All of you here who so quickly easily mock Loughner and call for his extinction, I would advise you to fall to your knees and thank God, or your lucky stars, or whatever, that you or some family member or someone you love is not afflicted by schizophrenia or dementia or some similar brain-killing disease.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 10:33 AM (AonDb)
Where do you find this? I can't find anything about the parents. In fact, since both are county workers, they ought to be members of the SEIU, who organized Pima Co. employees in 2007. Why don't we know anything about them?
Posted by: AmishDude at January 13, 2011 02:26 PM (BvBKY)
I know his mother worked for Parks & Rec but I've never found where his father worked. I read somewhere (grain of salt...) he was a stay at home dad. Where did his dad work?
Posted by: Tami- apologizing to her parents for not handing out T-shirts at their funerals at January 13, 2011 10:33 AM (VuLos)
Posted by: Nighthawk at January 13, 2011 10:33 AM (02uN6)
Posted by: Uncle Fester at January 13, 2011 10:33 AM (VXBR1)
"...could abusing magic mushrooms drive him schizo in the space of 4 years?"
I don't know. If it was PCP, he woulda just ran around the neighborhood naked while eating his own penis. That much I do know.
Posted by: Joanie (Oven Gloves) at January 13, 2011 10:33 AM (HaYO4)
We "busted" that one, but we still have this nasty crotch rash from all those chimps we had to keep entertained between takes
Posted by: Adam & Jamie from Mythbusters at January 13, 2011 10:33 AM (vdfwz)
Posted by: Ms Choksondik at January 13, 2011 10:37 AM (F+Y9Z)
Posted by: cali grump at January 13, 2011 10:37 AM (hL0k8)
Nooo. That would be: Anyone who voted for Ted Kennedy for 30+ years...
Posted by: Zombie Mary Jo Kopechne at January 13, 2011 10:37 AM (1ilyW)
FIFY
Posted by: Kemp at January 13, 2011 02:17 PM (JpFM9)
I'm thinking Suzy was referring to the band Rush, not El Rushbo.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at January 13, 2011 10:39 AM (IoUF1)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 10:39 AM (Ez4Ql)
He's like a mad dog that bites someone. You put the mad dog down, because it's dangerous. And it can't be cured. But you don't really blame the dog personally. It's mad, after all.
__
I must say, I agree. I get the delegitimization. But the brain is an organ and can become physiologically diseased just like liver or bone. Schizophrenia is a real illness - and I'd like to know what rock his parents have been under since last February, when he apparently began to show symptoms.
Mocking a mad dog may be a good way to blow off some unproductive anger, but c'mon Ace, there are more important things to address. Like: how the left was behind the deinstitutionalization movement in the 1960s, which is largely the reason why crazies like this can now run around basically unchecked.
Legislators are already proposing laws restricting guns and speech - when we should be discussing how get the mentally ill off the street and into treatment.
Posted by: stc at January 13, 2011 10:41 AM (te+yd)
Posted by: Gail at January 13, 2011 10:41 AM (f46PC)
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 02:33 PM (AonDb)
I do, and I am. But I'm not convinced this guy is anymore a schizophrenic than I am. Reclusive and weird does not mean "schizophrenic and worthy of pity." Reclusive and weird does not mean "severe clinical depression and worthy of pity." Reclusive and weird means "reclusive and weird." I will await a clinical diagnosis before I say, "Okay, he was a schizophrenic, so that explains some of his crazy ideas." But he's still a murderer and fully culpable for his actions, especially if he was on meds at some point and stopped taking them. Then any sympathy he may have gotten from me -- any of it -- is out the window.
Posted by: MWR at January 13, 2011 10:41 AM (4df7R)
"mmm, Joanie, where is it you acquire this knowledge? Been hangin out with Charlie Sheen or what?"
I watch Cop shows. Both Charlie Sheen and drugs are for whores and hippies.
Posted by: Joanie (Oven Gloves) at January 13, 2011 10:44 AM (HaYO4)
Steve, come on, man.
We don't want Loghner punished because he *might* have a mental disorder.
We want him punished because he's a murderer.
So put me on record as someone who wants to punish murderers, not a someone who wants to punish schizophrenics.
Posted by: Soothsayer3P0 at January 13, 2011 10:44 AM (uFokq)
Legislators are already proposing laws restricting guns and speech - when we should be discussing how get the mentally ill off the street and into treatment. ~st
Costs weren't factored into Obama care. They don't cover mental health in Canada's "universal healthcare" either.
Posted by: Speller at January 13, 2011 10:44 AM (J74Py)
Posted by: Minuteman at January 13, 2011 10:46 AM (/3GFM)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 10:47 AM (Ez4Ql)
I know his mother worked for Parks & Rec but I've never found where his father worked. I read somewhere (grain of salt...) he was a stay at home dad. Where did his dad work?
I believe I read that the Dad worked at CPS.
I liked your handle with the "Post-humous" in it. It made me laugh. You are far from dead from the neck up--one of the funnier, sharper commenters here (and that says a lot because there are so many!)
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 10:48 AM (ihSHD)
Posted by: moi at January 13, 2011 02:47 PM (Ez4Ql)
If he hid the gun until he opened fire, and took the safety off, he's mentally competent.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 10:49 AM (z1N6a)
Are you afraid we're going to hurt his feelings?
If he truly doesn't understand right and wrong, he doesn't have the competence to understand he's being mocked.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 13, 2011 10:49 AM (TpXEI)
Costs weren't factored into Obama care. They don't cover mental health in Canada's "universal healthcare" either.
Even if costs had been factored in the O-care, they'd all be lies. The whole thing is a fricking scam. Thanks a lot 52%!!!Eleventy!!
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 10:50 AM (ihSHD)
Posted by: SarahW at January 13, 2011 10:50 AM (Z4T49)
I liked your handle with the "Post-humous" in it.
It made me laugh. You are far from dead from the neck up--one of the
funnier, sharper commenters here (and that says a lot because there are
so many!)
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 02:48 PM (ihSHD)
Well thank you RNR!!! But I can't hold a candle to so many others here. The knowledge and humor are unbelievable...and that includes you too!
Posted by: Tami- apologizing to her parents for not handing out T-shirts at their funerals at January 13, 2011 10:51 AM (VuLos)
Now I'm offended.
Didn't any of you learn anything from Captain Whatshisname's sermon last night in Tucson? Let's tone down the rhetoric lest another good Democrat's still-functioning corpse be martyred as a political prop.
Posted by: VJay at January 13, 2011 10:53 AM (gQ+XA)
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 10:53 AM (ihSHD)
Well thank you RNR!!! But I can't
hold a candle to so many others here. The knowledge and humor are
unbelievable...and that includes you too!
Posted by: Tami- apologizing to her parents for not handing out T-shirts at their funerals at January 13, 2011 02:51 PM (VuLos)
Group Hug!!!!
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 10:53 AM (z1N6a)
Posted by: dagny at January 13, 2011 10:55 AM (+Z6ve)
See my post above and READ THE LINK.
Posted by: SarahW at January 13, 2011 10:55 AM (Z4T49)
If he hid the gun until he opened fire, and took the safety off, he's mentally competent.
Then there's his note. "Die, ..." implies that he was aware of the consequences of his actions, and "... bitch!" shows his malice toward his target.
I'm no psychologist. Just saying, though.
Posted by: FireHorse at January 13, 2011 10:55 AM (sWynj)
Group Hug!!!!
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 02:53 PM (z1N6a)
That's not a hug oldcat! Stop it this instant!
Posted by: dagny at January 13, 2011 10:55 AM (+Z6ve)
If he hid the gun until he opened fire, and took the safety off, he's mentally competent.
Let's not forget that he was able to figure out where his target was and direct a cab to take him there.
It'll be interesting to know what the cabbie says about Lockednard's state of mind. Clearly the cabbie got out and pursued Lockednard when he was stiffed for the fare. If it was me, I wouldn't have chased a crazy with a gun for a 5 minute cab fare.
Posted by: Speller at January 13, 2011 10:55 AM (J74Py)
That's not a hug oldcat! Stop it this instant!
Posted by: dagny at January 13, 2011 02:55 PM (+Z6ve)
You're no fun anymore
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 10:56 AM (z1N6a)
Posted by: runningrn who is not speaking in her grandparents native accent at January 13, 2011 02:53 PM (ihSHD)
Wait 3 more days and if nothing happens....call a cleaning lady and go get a manicure.
Posted by: Tami- apologizing to her parents for not handing out T-shirts at their funerals at January 13, 2011 10:56 AM (VuLos)
(I'm still waiting for my floors to vaccum themselves--so far nothing's happening, but I think I just need to give it some more time!)
Nah. Why bother. You vacuum and 6 months later you just have to do it again.l
Posted by: dagny at January 13, 2011 10:58 AM (+Z6ve)
I found it profoundly heart-warming that even dimwitted schlubs playing a corpse like Earth Empires were still rational and humane enough to honestly give the asshole real, usable advice when he complained about not being hired by the Bee Queen's Hideous Job Minions. Like, hey, write up your resume and present yourself well. Give them character references, etc. Ignore the mandibles on the interviewer, you're probably just hallucinating.
Even they, players of a text-based "Archmage" knockoff were a thousand times more rational and friendly than this mutant/mistake.
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at January 13, 2011 10:59 AM (thGxc)
He probably is, or was. If he's an actual schizo, and not merely nutso, his brain just doesn't work anymore, regardless of its (former) capacity.
Schizophrenics are crippled, not crazy. They don't have a "mental illness." Their brains are physically injured. Intelligence is distributed pretty much randomly among them, like it is among people who get hit in the head with a shovel. The things don't correlate.
Some schizos who are intelligent, or who were, kind of try to walk it off, so to speak, by continuing to ape the forms of reason with brains that are no longer capable of filling in the forms rationally. And sometimes that's trouble, because they can't (literally, physically can't) understand why suddenly everyone reacts so weirdly to them, and they'll lash out in a way they can only understand as a defense against a world suddenly moving everywhere against them.
It kind of looks like that's the case with this guy—and it kind of doesn't. His old girlfriend's suspicion that he's faking it, or exaggerating mere craziness, could be correct, but...he's good at it, and no one is. Y'know?
So, shit on the guy if it makes you feel better, I guess. I don't recommend it, for the sake of your own souls or whatever, but...whatever. It's not like he'd understand. Probably.
Posted by: oblig. at January 13, 2011 11:01 AM (x7Ao8)
Now let's see who is it that's responsible for the unemployement being at record high levels?
Correct me if I'm wrong but when unemployment was low, Bill Clinton got the credit. When it was low the MSM said it was Bush's responsibility.
So it seems to ME that the current unemployment rate is the responsibility OF (wait for it) BURECK OBLAMO.
And just to be fair we'll add in the plastic fantastic 111th congress led by Queen Botox herself Ninci Pyelochi.
Posted by: jakee308 at January 13, 2011 11:02 AM (fhTf7)
Posted by: cali grump at January 13, 2011 11:02 AM (hL0k8)
Posted by: somebody else, not me at January 13, 2011 11:03 AM (7EV/g)
Posted by: cali grump at January 13, 2011 03:02 PM (hL0k
As a Californian, I resent that. I don't deny it, but I resent it.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 11:05 AM (z1N6a)
I think of Loughner. Obsesed with "Conscious Dreaming." That just screams out "I am hearing voices in my head."
What does "moral imagination" say to you?
Huh? I don't get it.
231 Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 02:27 PM (emG8W)A thousand words for the crazy guy, none for the victims. I think you're snarking me, but you have a good point. I feel guilty as hell about it. 250
Mocking a mad dog may be a good way to blow off some unproductive anger, but c'mon Ace, there are more important things to address. Like: how the left was behind the deinstitutionalization movement in the 1960s, which is largely the reason why crazies like this can now run around basically unchecked. I hear ya. We got a bunch of homeless people and bums where I live. Some of them look like they're just bums, looking for a handout. But some of them... I mean, there's this one guy who just staggers arround, dressed in a garbage bag. You look at him, and there is something seriously wrong about his head. I don't know if it was drugs or mental illness, but most of him is seriously checked out.
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 11:08 AM (emG8W)
Questions and doubts are normal; that doesn't mean we don't have the answers. Mostly, it means we don't understand them or don't like them. I've got plenty of those.
However, my position doesn't change based on whether he's "evil" or not- and I'm sorry if that hasn't come across in my other posts. What he did marks him as someone which Society must- if it is to protect itself- completely and permanently reject. To me, life imprisonment (in an actual prison or a mental hospital) is not complete or permanent enough: people escape from prisons and mental hospitals.
If a family member of mine were so depraved/evil/insane that he or she could commit mass murder, they, too, would deserve the same fate. Not because I don't love them (I'm not sure how well I'd be able to function, afterwords), but because Society must protect itself from them.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 13, 2011 11:11 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Cherry π at January 13, 2011 11:15 AM (+sBB4)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 13, 2011 11:21 AM (HpG1y)
Posted by: Cherry π at January 13, 2011 03:15 PM (+sBB4)
From the voices. Those voices, Cherry. They said it.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 11:21 AM (z1N6a)
Posted by: Ace at January 13, 2011 11:21 AM (nj1bB)
If he's not, then I have different views of what should be done.
But if he is, I stand by what I said: he is not responsible for his actions and should be be treated accordingly. I stated that he should be locked up. But he shouldn't be executed. He shouldn't even go on trial because he's incompetent to stand trial.
IF he is a paranoid schizophrenic, his brain is materially damaged by a physiological disease. It is dysfunctional. It's not his fault he got that way. It's not his fault that he acted as he did. He did not commit murder as the law defines murder. He committed homicide. He is not evil. There is no volition. If there is no volition there is no evil. We should incarcerate him but we should also pity him. There but for the grace of God--or whomever or whatever--go all of us. I have dealt with family members who were schiz, and with family members who were demented. Those of you who so harshly condemn Loughner and who are so critical of my views--have you had to deal with a family member who was diseased in this fashion? Have you seen what such brain diseases do to those afflicted by them? They suffer the tortures of the damned.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 11:26 AM (AonDb)
As to the shooter, we have a nebulous thing here. Until I can see something, somewhere that gives a definitive diagnosis, I have to consider that this may have been a person whose brain was unimpaired, whose ego and perceptions of reality simply took him so far out of sync with the rest of us that a perfectly functional brain could conclude that his actions were rational and proper. Further, if this is the case, given the evidence, I must conclude that the majority of that path was self-determined, and that this person is likely too far beyond human agency to redeem.
Of course, if word from the professionals is 'oh yeah, his brain's fried', then it's a question of sequestration and care, not confinement and punishment. But once again, let's make sure our facts are in order first, shall we? We have learned that lesson, right...?
Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord© at January 13, 2011 11:28 AM (GBXon)
Posted by: Ace at January 13, 2011 11:29 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: Zombie Lee Harvey Oswald at January 13, 2011 11:31 AM (Y35JT)
If a family member of mine were so depraved/evil/insane that he or she could commit mass murder, they, too, would deserve the same fate. Not because I don't love them (I'm not sure how well I'd be able to function, afterwords), but because Society must protect itself from them.
In light of those statements, I would say you've got a lot of damn nerve lecturing me on how my understanding of the Bible and God's revealed word--particularly the parts concerning mercy, compassion, pity, and the sanctity of life.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 11:31 AM (AonDb)
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate)
Steve, can I call you Ed? Ok, Mr. Snate, Steve-o, here's where I stand: He murdered a child, hang him.
But but but he's... He murdered a child, hang him. Period.
I do not care if he is deranged, twisted, calculating or injured and loopy -
He murdered a child. Hang him.
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at January 13, 2011 11:32 AM (thGxc)
Posted by: Dr. Amy Bishop at January 13, 2011 11:33 AM (Y35JT)
You can do anything you want. But, yes, I don't think you should make fun of deranged people, even if they have killed people. It's cruel and, in some sense, unmanly. It makes you sound like some yabbo in the crowd at a public hanging.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 11:36 AM (AonDb)
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 11:40 AM (AonDb)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 13, 2011 11:43 AM (HpG1y)
299 . It makes you sound like some yabbo in the crowd at a public hanging.
1. Define "yabbo".
2. Identify the last time you attended a public hanging. Give dates and times.
3. Attempt, if you can, to continue to offer some sort of sympathy for a dogshit like Logner for murdering a 9 year old girl and a handful of retirees. Try again to dismiss the importance of him murdering a child - because that is what you are doing - saying that keeping this piece of shit alive and away from the noose is more important than eliminating this dangerous animal from our planet and punishing him properly for murdering a child.
Because that is exactly what you are doing - left-handedly approving the murder of a child - saying that his "health" reduces their (the victims') lives to a footnote before the overwhelming importance of letting him eat and shit for another twenty years.
I respond - bullshit. He killed a child. Hang him.
My stand is morally superior to yours because I'm not defending a man who killed a 9 year old girl. GTFO, thanks.
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at January 13, 2011 11:44 AM (thGxc)
It takes no nerve whatsoever. Christ's mercy to us (and ours to others) has nothing to do with legal consequences for actions. Even Christ allowing the woman caught in adultery to leave was not because (or primarily because) of mercy for the legal consequences for her actions. There were lots of legalistic things going into that, and he, indeed, agreed to her stoning.
The law says what the law says. It is not merciful, especially not to the victims and their families, to do anything less than prevent this man from doing anything like this ever again.
Mercy doesn't mean we let the guilty go free, it means we hold those who harm us (that is, us specifically, not us collectively) harmless. And, I don't actually believe in Sanctity of Life (in the Theological sense- the socio-moral definition makes things a little muddled there). Life on this earth is anything but sanctified. God never promised us a long life- indeed, he never promised life in the first place (stillbirths, etc.). God promised Eternal Life with Him for those who follow Christ.
Don't let your feelings of God's Mercy- which you, personally, should bestow on those who harm you, personally blind you to God's other traits- including Justice. Justice demands that Jared Laughner be removed from a position in which he can kill any more 9 year old girls.
You, personally, can show him God's Mercy by (for example) visiting him in prison, writing him letters, or other such things. But that's just the thing- God's Mercy is personal. It has no bearing on Society as a whole, or on Justice. You cannot show Mercy by saying someone (who demonstrably is) is not a threat to society, and you cannot show Mercy on someone else's behalf. Your merciful actions cannot, and should not, in any way make you think that Justice should not be done.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 13, 2011 11:44 AM (8y9MW)
Imagine someone seriously divergent, say believing that they were from the future, or that they were getting messages from the future. And that person X would be the next Hilter or the Anti-Christ or create SkyNet. They know that murder is wrong, but feel compelled to act anyway to save billions, or whatever their delusion tells them.
Is that person criminally culpable?
Posted by: Sarah Connor at January 13, 2011 11:47 AM (S5YRY)
... if you're better than me in this respect, and you mourn Jeffery Dahmer and such, fine.
So spare me the hot tears.
I'm not saying, and didn't say, that you should pump tears for him. I'm not saying, and didn't say, that I'm better than you, or that I mourn for Jeffrey Dahmer. I'm not shedding hot tears for Loughner. Those are all your words.
If YOU that I think that I'm better than you, you're mistaken.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 11:47 AM (AonDb)
"Obviously what we have here is Loughner begging women, multiple times, to go on dates with him, and them demurring in the vaguest, safest way possible because he's so crackling with weird, jangly, ugly energy they're a little too afraid to just say "No.""
I suspect that he kind of sort of in his messed up way asked Ms Giffords out. She said no.
Posted by: Terri at January 13, 2011 11:51 AM (tb1RT)
Because that is exactly what you are doing - left-handedly approving the murder of a child -
You're wrong. I don't approve, even left-handedly, of the murder of a child.
AllenG: I've said all I have to say to you concerning this issue. I don't think we need to discuss it further.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 11:51 AM (AonDb)
Posted by: Cherry π at January 13, 2011 11:52 AM (+sBB4)
Okay, I guess you could say I'm defending him. But I'm not defending what he did; I'm trying to find an explanation for why he did it and judge him in accordance with that explanation. Incidentally, if it's found that he's not schiz and delusional, etc., I am by all means an advocate for the death penalty.
I don't think my stand is morally superior to yours or that I am morally superior to you. If you think you're morally superior to me, fine. I don't care.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 11:58 AM (AonDb)
So you tell me I have no moral standing to hold my opinion (or critique yours), but when I have an answer, you can't respond to it? Well, I guess you did, in a way, but you know what I mean.
See, I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt, and now I'm regretting it. Your words, however much you want to believe otherwise, place greater concern for the perpetrator of this horrendous event than for the victims. Indeed, you said that the fact I would support the execution of my own family member who had become so dangerous to society showed I lacked mercy and an understanding of evil.
When I point out the flaw in your argument, you're unable to answer and so, like Forest Gump, say "That's all I have to say about that."
So, I'll answer your post for the rest of Moron Nation: Yes, you are approving of the murder of a child. You may not think you are, but your words are more supportive of a murder than his victims; you think it is more important to be merciful to him, than to the victims and their families.
That's really sick, when you take time to think about it.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 13, 2011 11:59 AM (8y9MW)
308
You're wrong. I don't approve, even left-handedly, of the murder of a child.
Au contrair, as they say in barbarous Quebec. By immediately eliminating the consequence and immense loss that is associated with a murder of a 9 year old in your posting 'logic', you reduce her and her family's suffering to a footnote. You wave your hand and through the magic of sophistry, eliminate both her humanity and the inhumanity of her murder.
You immediately start ginning up sympathy for this murderer of a 9 year old girl by first reducing her murder to nothing. A distraction, if you will, from the seemingly ultra-important task of making sure the murderer is not yelled at with just awful names and that anyone who wants him to be held accountable is derided.
So yeah, you do and did approve left-handedly of the murder of a child because you indicated that the crime meant nothing.
So fuck off, chode.
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at January 13, 2011 12:00 PM (thGxc)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 13, 2011 12:01 PM (HpG1y)
you think it is more important to be merciful to him, than to the victims and their families.
You're wrong.
And do you really speak for everyone in Moron Nation?
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 12:03 PM (AonDb)
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 12:05 PM (AonDb)
But I am curious: is there anyone out there who agrees with me?
Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 03:40 PM (AonDb)
Sure there are. In fact there are enough of them that ace had to address it in an update at the bottom of his post. Of course, his tone up there was quite a bit moreÂ…measured than it is down here.
Ace IÂ’m sorry to have disappointed you as a commenter. Really I am. I suggest you look here for comments more to your liking.
http://everythingsawesome.blogspot.com/
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 12:06 PM (emG8W)
I also think this should be applied to suicides. Teens buy into the romanticisation of suicide and it would be much better if there was just a little less sympathy and a little more approbation for the ultimate act of quitting.
Posted by: kidney at January 13, 2011 12:12 PM (ENRGu)
Just don't call him bad names, and don't mock his writings, apparently.
Seriously...it's mockery people. Ace isn't applying electrodes to the guy's nipples. He's mocking him. Something that happens to lots of people every day across the country. Something Ace does to politicians all the time.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at January 13, 2011 12:13 PM (TpXEI)
Posted by: Ace at January 13, 2011 12:14 PM (nj1bB)
Tough guy? Where'd you get that? Do only tough guys hate murder? Do only tough guys stand up for children not being murdered as opposed to lickspittles to criminals like yourself who wonder endlessly if murderers are being appreciated as the special unique wonderful snowflakes they are? I'm no tough guy. But you, certainly, are a twisted, sick mind. A chode is another name for perineum. More explicitly, the area between your gaping vagina and your gaping anus, that patch of skin there is the chode. The More You Know(tm).
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at January 13, 2011 12:17 PM (thGxc)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 13, 2011 12:20 PM (HpG1y)
I'm finished, so no worries.
Incidentally, Loughner does not fit the classical Greek definition of a tragic figure. He was not undone by nemesis as punishment for hubris (overweening pride), which is the defining characteristic of a tragic figure.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 12:22 PM (AonDb)
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at January 13, 2011 12:22 PM (thGxc)
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 12:23 PM (AonDb)
Posted by: Ace at January 13, 2011 12:24 PM (nj1bB)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 13, 2011 12:24 PM (HpG1y)
Incidentally, Loughner does not fit the classical Greek definition of a tragic figure. He was not undone by nemesis as punishment for hubris (overweening pride), which is the defining characteristic of a tragic figure.
Really. Do fucking tell. I was just saying to my butler, Jeeves, I said, "Jeeves, I wonder if this rapscallion knows the classical Greek definition of a tragic figure instead of the normal American contemporary meaning."
Jeeves merely snorted in derision and I had him horsewhipped. Haw haw, I exclaimed, my mutiple chins jiggling wildly as my stubby arm waved the whip at his back. My thwarted grandstanding deserved a punishment.
Jeeves should know better than to snort at me when I am being particularly ridiculous.
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at January 13, 2011 12:27 PM (thGxc)
Posted by: Ace at January 13, 2011 12:28 PM (nj1bB)
Ace at January 13, 2011 04:14 PM (nj1bB)
Hey, it's a comment section. People go back and forth. It's kind of how it works. But if there is one comment limit here that I wasn't aware of, consider this my mea culpa.
And I don't want you crying tears for this guy. Go look at my original comment. I compared him to a mad dog. And what do you do with mad dogs? You put them down. But it isn't personal.
You want to mock him? Go right ahead. But don't expect me to sign up for it as a cheerleader.
And I'm not trashing you or trying to pull some high and mighty moral bullshit on you either.
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 12:31 PM (emG8W)
Thanks for the note. I think you're a good guy too. And very smart. I respect you and your opinions; it's just that in this instance I disagree with you. It's okay for you to yell at me too because I know you're honestly passionate about the subject. Also, what you said wasn't really objectionable. The yelling at Thanksgiving dinner with my liberal brother in Hyde Park is far worse. I want to point out that I don't think I'm sympathizing with Loughner. And it is certainly the case that my family history and experiences are a powerful influence on my views. But ... okay, I get your point.
That's all. Exit, stage right. <bows elegantly to jeers of the crowd and thrown tomatoes>
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 12:32 PM (AonDb)
Ace at January 13, 2011 04:24 PM (nj1bB)
No problem ace. Let me read the rest of your comment. Yer a good guy too.
Seriously. But not in gay way..
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 12:32 PM (emG8W)
And do you really speak for everyone in Moron Nation?
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 04:03 PM (AonDb)
Then where are your posts about the victims and supporting the family? So far the tally by words are thousands to two.
Posted by: Oldcat at January 13, 2011 12:33 PM (z1N6a)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 13, 2011 12:33 PM (HpG1y)
Posted by: Jadon at January 13, 2011 12:34 PM (hpkKQ)
If he had moral agency then he should probably be punished to the fullest extent of the law: i.e., execution.
InspectorAsshole: Still funny. Cracking me up.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 12:37 PM (AonDb)
Posted by: cackfinger at January 13, 2011 12:38 PM (HpG1y)
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 12:38 PM (AonDb)
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 12:44 PM (AonDb)
Yeah, the whole moral agency thing is key. I honestly don't know if he has agency or not.
Yeah, he might be hallucinating and hearing things. But other schizophrenics do, and they don't kill either. Someone upthread said he was a couselor and the guy he was counseling said that voices in his head were telling him to kill his aunt, who he was living with, and was sitting next him right when he said that.
But he didn't kill her.
Maybe this Loughner guys' metal illness was worse and more uncontrollable. Or maybe he is a evil dude who freely chose to indulge in his murder.
I don't know. I'll be honest, when I look at his face and see that smirk, I start suspecting he is faking it. Or he did choose to kill. That smirk is probably the most damning thing, in terms of agency.
I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt, figuring that if the skys are orange in your world, and invisable voices speak to you, you probably are so crazy that you probably do meet the "not guilty by reason of insanity."
But I could be wrong.
Eitherway, this guy can never be alowed to walk the streets again. Either we keep him in a jail cell, or a padded cell, or execute him. I lean towards a padded cell. But a jail cell or the gas chamber work too.
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 12:48 PM (emG8W)
@Steve (Ed Snate)
If you ever get cancer, and I hope you don't, but if you do.... and it's an 'operable' cancer... will you let the docs take it from you, or will you keep it? Hoping that it goes into regression on it's own, or that some other form of medicine, say Homeopathy, fixes the situation?
If you had a Sexually transmitted disease, would you be treated for it, and abstain from sexual encounters until cured, or would you stay sick and diseased, continuing to have sex without regard to those you are having sex with?
This Arizona shooter guy is a cancer, an STD, that needs to be removed from the body (Life on this planet). I, as part of the body, will reject him, and would remove him myself had I been there, so he cannot endanger the body again, be it in prison, or outside of prison walls. I support that part of the body that rejects him.
There is a nine year old girl whose chance at life was taken by someone sick, someone plagued, and someone who should be removed. I'm tired of people hugging trees, and not having the stomach to do what is right for the good of the whole.
You are a sheep, and I am the Sheppard. I will do what it takes to protect the flock, and remove those dangers presented to the flock. I invite you to be a shepherd as well, for if the flock were all shepherds we would truly survive (and not be where we are today), but when the flock is all sheep, there is no one to protect us from the dangers.
Next up will be the 'elected sheep' saying we have to take away the ability of the shepherds to watch over us... you watch and see... as cliché as it is, "You can pry this from my cold dead hands" pretty much sums it up.
Don't be a sheep, be a shepherd.
Posted by: BingoBongo at January 13, 2011 12:48 PM (CAVPy)
Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 04:38 PM (AonDb)
I don't know. I'm "ed". Lowercase "ed." He may have meant you, instead of me.
There was a running gag about that with one of the commenters, whose nic was something like "Ralph, but not lower-case ralph."
I'm not trying to copy that meme. I just type it lowercase. Dunno. Just like the way it looks. Not because the voices tell me to...
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 12:52 PM (emG8W)
Posted by: Wee-wee'd Up at January 13, 2011 12:54 PM (dAyzh)
As a matter of fact, I am a shepherd. Literally and actually. I'm not be snarky or facetious. I have a border collie and we herd sheep on a farm c. 80 west of Chicago. Our main predators are coyotes and we protect the sheep from them. We shoot them if we can.
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 12:54 PM (AonDb)
Posted by: SarahW at January 13, 2011 12:55 PM (Z4T49)
Posted by: Paul A'Barge at January 13, 2011 12:58 PM (lLS3Y)
As a matter of fact, I am a shepherd. Literally and actually...
You can try to think of yourself as a sheppard, but your comments here don't reflect that...
So instead of literally and actually (which there isn't a difference), you should be one metaphorically.... instead of the a$$hole (literally) that you are.
Posted by: BingoBongo at January 13, 2011 12:59 PM (CAVPy)
George Will, is that you again?
Posted by: Steve (aka Ed Snate) at January 13, 2011 01:01 PM (AonDb)
You are a sheep, and I am the Sheppard. I will do what it takes to protect the flock, and remove those dangers presented to the flock. I invite you to be a shepherd as well, for if the flock were all shepherds we would truly survive (and not be where we are today), but when the flock is all sheep, there is no one to protect us from the dangers.
BingoBongo at January 13, 2011 04:48 PM (CAVPy)
BingoBongo, this is for you.
(caution: Pulp Fiction videos from youtube with cursing)
Posted by: ed at January 13, 2011 01:12 PM (emG8W)
Posted by: PCachu at January 13, 2011 01:32 PM (r2Oug)
Posted by: Steve O at January 13, 2011 04:37 PM (DEHX+)
Absolutely spot on w/ this post's commentary. The Gift of Fear by
security/terrorism expert Gavin de Becker (or maybe you have): makes this
exact point that what we need to do is not to give attackers
the dignity of the three names and the "lone wolf" mythology and the "seemed
quiet to his neighbors" schtick (which is the same, he says, as saying "we know
nothing about him except he's a murderer") but to emphasize, even more for
the sake of sick imitators, what sheer and utter stupid, pasty,
feckless LOSERS these wackos are.
Keep pushing this point, Ace. It's not only true, but it discourages unbalanced imitators - hey look, it's not a brave, fearless antihero but a blithering, weak jerkoff!
Posted by: no one of consequence at January 13, 2011 05:04 PM (XlCRC)
"BingoBongo, this is for you.
(caution: Pulp Fiction videos from youtube with cursing)"
@Ed, yes, very good movie, and his words make a good point... I didn't even have to click the links. People make that reference to me all the time. Samuel L. delivers those lines much more dramatic than I do, and while slightly different, the philosophy is the same. A person is one of three types; a shepherd, a sheep, or a wolf. I am the shepherd. 26 years (23 military 3 civilian) of service to my flock. I am trained, and possess concealed carry. (just to give you a bit of background)
There was a man in the crowd that day who was carrying. He chose not to draw and fire, but rather help subdue. A brave move and I commend him and the folks that responded to that situation. Although I would also have commended him had he drawn, fired, and eliminated the threat.
Bad part about all of this, is that left of center, and some (albeit a small amount) right of center folks will call for stricter gun control. Gun control laws, when to stringent, take aware the ability of the shepherds to protect the flock, while the wolves still continue to be wolves. That simply won't do.
But I digress. This AZ shooter is a cancer, should have, and now 'should be' removed from the flock. Bat-shit crazy or not. I can't speak for the parents of that 9 year old girl, but if it were my girl, this guy would meet Jack Ruby's fate at my hands.
Posted by: BingoBongo at January 14, 2011 04:57 AM (b1TGU)
The people complaining at Ace are missing the main point here. Evil does not have glamour or mystique. It's just stupid selfish destuctiveness without an excuse to exist.
People will be looking for "evil" in his writings. That is the wrong tactic. Evil, in its literary form, is interesting -- ask Dante -- whereas Jared Loughner is not. Evil, in, again, its literally form, is sexy -- ask Dracula -- whereas Jared Loughner appears to be a loaf of bad bread that didn't quite bake long enough in the oven.
Evil, in its genuine form, is almost always crude, stupid, and ugly. Like Jared Loughner.
Exactly. Banal is the work used also.
I have a retarded kid and did not feel that Ace was attacking the retarded. He is attacking pretension. And yes, I use the word retarded. I can't take the constant changing of terminology, as if there is something shameful or as if we can't speak of it in plain terminology.
Anyone else here read M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie ? The need to self-deceive is the first requirement of evil, so you don't have to face your own flaws and weaknesses. Jared is exhibit A of that. The Pretension of some inner greatness, instead of dealing with his shortcomings in the humiliating world in which he actually exists.
Ace, this is one of your best posts ever.
Posted by: Jade Sea at January 14, 2011 06:23 AM (C0/jD)
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Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at January 13, 2011 09:27 AM (mHQ7T)