October 20, 2011

The Frankfurt School & The Death of the West
Plus, Evening Open Thread

— Ace

I've been sick yesterday and today, and not Batman: Arkham City sick either. Actually sick.

Andrew Breitbart suggested I watch the below videos, about the Frankfurt School's attempt to create a path to Marxism that could work in prosperous America. Because agitation among the (relatively well-paid) working classes wasn't working.

What did they come up with? Political correctness, and creating a new style of cultural/social warfare.

Posted by: Ace at 01:08 PM | Comments (120)
Post contains 92 words, total size 1 kb.

1
oh hi new post

Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:09 PM (sqkOB)

2
why do I have a craving for a hot dog?

Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:10 PM (sqkOB)

3 GameInformer rated Arkham Asylum 10/10, a rating they give out about twice a year.

Posted by: Truman North at October 20, 2011 01:10 PM (I2LwF)

4 Why do you do this to me?

Posted by: dogfish at October 20, 2011 01:11 PM (NuPNl)

5 Geez.....who has time for this?

Posted by: © Sponge at October 20, 2011 01:11 PM (UK9cE)

6
Save us Zombie Joe McCarthy, you're our only hope.

Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:11 PM (sqkOB)

7 thirsty ... so very thirsty

Posted by: The Tree of Liberty at October 20, 2011 01:13 PM (GTbGH)

8 I like mine with brown mustard.

Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at October 20, 2011 01:13 PM (4sQwu)

9

Perry should watch this, it would help him debate better against Romney.

runs away

Posted by: ErikW at October 20, 2011 01:13 PM (JyUB5)

10 Jesus ace, when will you stop this incessant Perry cheerleading?

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at October 20, 2011 01:14 PM (+lsX1)

11 This is all Andrew's fault and a ploy to make me want to go read his tweets instead.

Posted by: dogfish at October 20, 2011 01:14 PM (NuPNl)

12 I've been sick yesterday

fecal impaction is a bitch

Posted by: Cherry pi at October 20, 2011 01:14 PM (OhYCU)

13
yellow mustard for me

brown mustard is for quiche

Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:15 PM (sqkOB)

14
mustard relish is a nice invention

Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:15 PM (sqkOB)

15 Ok is that game any good? I need to get another game off my Gamefly and if that is good il order Arkham City. I have been on a Madden kick lately and im sick of 40 something year old virgins yelling at me while they go for it every 4th down.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at October 20, 2011 01:15 PM (B0ebt)

16
it's like butter-flavored salt

Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:15 PM (sqkOB)

17 Sorry to go OT so early but.....this outta be good....

CAIR To Join Occupy Wall Street Protests, Will Hold Friday Prayers In Zuccotti ParkÂ…

Dear friends,

This Friday, the Council on American Islamic Relations New York Chapter (CAIR-NY) would like to invite you and your organization to join us for Jummah at Occupy Wall Street this Friday, October 21st. Over the past several weeks, it has become clear that many of the demands of Occupy Wall Street parallel those of the New York Muslim community.

The rest of the CAIR letter at Weasel Zippers.

Posted by: Tami-Cardinals! at October 20, 2011 01:15 PM (X6akg)

18 Is too much. Can you sum up?

Posted by: Inigo Montoya at October 20, 2011 01:16 PM (mjSSA)

19 If Ace's new best friend Andrew Breitbart understands that cultural warfare is the key to infusing Marxism into an otherwise-immoveable America, why is he falling for the gay marriage stuff so hard?

Posted by: NotALibertarian at October 20, 2011 01:16 PM (psns8)

20 Ace has been hiding from African-Libyan Miranda-Reading Freedom Fighters

Posted by: Cherry pi at October 20, 2011 01:17 PM (OhYCU)

21
We grew up at a time when microwave popcorn and butter-flavored salt was invented. That was a big step forward for our civilization.

Now we're going backwards thanks to these commies.

Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:17 PM (sqkOB)

22 fecal impaction is a bitch

Posted by: Cherry pi at October 20, 2011 05:14 PM (OhYCU)

Don't I know it! BUUUUUURRRRRP!

Posted by: Michael Moore at October 20, 2011 01:18 PM (JyUB5)

23 the West isn't dead; Islam is dead; communism is dead

the West may be dying, but so are we all; Islam and the commies are already There

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at October 20, 2011 01:19 PM (UqKQV)

24 Perry should watch this, it would help him debate better against Romney.

So would watching PeeWee Herman and Ernest P. Worrell.  I mean, how could he do worse?

Posted by: pep at October 20, 2011 01:20 PM (6TB1Z)

25
Genesis of the Daleks -- The Frankfurt School pt. 1

http://tinyurl.com/3ffhz83

Posted by: Dr. Varno at October 20, 2011 01:20 PM (QMtmy)

26 Man, I'm such a pussy in Batman: Arkham City. It's just sad. I've nearly defeated Superman on multiple occasions, but I'm defeated by Batman using some kind of fucking explosive gel all around the floor. Really?

Posted by: Solomon Grundy at October 20, 2011 01:20 PM (usXZy)

27 Posted by: SantaRosaStan at October 20, 2011 05:19 PM (UqKQV)

I wouldn't say communism is dead, it's spirit certainly lives on in many places in the world.

Posted by: KG at October 20, 2011 01:21 PM (LD21B)

28 OT: Matthew Perry pilot from 1987, set in the year 2011 that predicts Qaddafi's death. It's at the 2:20 mark. Weird. www.youtube.com/watch?v=o62MU1q-U1k&feature=player_embedded

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at October 20, 2011 01:21 PM (UlUS4)

29

Don't be stupid.  You can't teach a hot dog new tricks.

Posted by: Joe Biden at October 20, 2011 01:21 PM (44JuN)

30 You thought Solyndra cost a lot... The Pentagon says $1 billion for 1 dead dictator.

Posted by: Cherry pi at October 20, 2011 01:23 PM (OhYCU)

31 Ok is that game any good?

The game is all about timing of your button pushes. Spamming X will kill most mobs. But pacing X and mixing in some B Y will get you big combos and things die a lot faster.

So far, the boss fights aren't so bad. Solomon Grundy was a pussy but the fight was still fun. The "mini bosses" are more irritating than anything else cuz they have these lesser henchmen with them that make those a little rough.

The graphics are phenomenal. It's easy to pick up and play even if you aren't good at fast paced action games (like me). I'm terrible at fine controls (ie flying through corridors) but even that's not impossible for me.

Posted by: Solomon Grundy at October 20, 2011 01:24 PM (usXZy)

Posted by: GWAR! at October 20, 2011 01:24 PM (44JuN)

33 30.
worth every penney

Posted by: roman maroni at October 20, 2011 01:26 PM (KCCgc)

34 I was told there would be no book learning on this blog.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp redneck hillbilly at October 20, 2011 05:24 PM (qjUnn)

Who said anything about books?

Pep had some good viewing suggestions!

Posted by: ErikW at October 20, 2011 01:26 PM (JyUB5)

35 penny

Posted by: roman maroni at October 20, 2011 01:27 PM (KCCgc)

36 I was encouraged that Romney wouldn't allow Perry to talk over him in the debate.  I think that was by design on his part, in order to address one of his potential weaknesses with voters.  One of my biggest concerns about Romney is that he is too "Mormon nice" and won't get down and dirty when it's needed, and it will be needed.   He stood eyeball to eyeball with Perry, who was shooting daggers at him, and didn't back down.  Turning a bright shade of red didn't hurt either.

Proof positive that he has a set?  No, but a useful data point. 

Posted by: pep at October 20, 2011 01:27 PM (6TB1Z)

37 18 Is too much. Can you sum up? Posted by: Inigo Montoya at October 20, 2011 05:16 PM (mjSSA) Liberalism = Death

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at October 20, 2011 01:27 PM (UlUS4)

38

What did they come up with? Political correctness, and creating a new style of cultural/social warfare.

Political correctness is the Left's most effective anti-First Amendment tool they have.


Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:28 PM (sqkOB)

39 When you go down this rabbit hole, Ace, the inevitable conclusion will be that one cannot really successfully divorce cultural conservatism from economic conservatism.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at October 20, 2011 01:28 PM (mg08E)

40

worth every penney

We haven't even started to pay for killing him...or for removing Mubarak.

Posted by: garrett at October 20, 2011 01:29 PM (44JuN)

41 Liberalism = Death

Give me liberalism and give me death

Posted by: Cherry pi at October 20, 2011 01:29 PM (OhYCU)

42

runs away

Posted by: ErikW at October 20, 2011 05:13 PM (JyUB5)

I was being facetious. Never again.

Posted by: ErikW at October 20, 2011 01:29 PM (JyUB5)

43 Give me liberalism and give me death One does tend to follow the other like night and day

Posted by: nevergiveup at October 20, 2011 01:30 PM (aYQHH)

44 Part I needed some chase scenes and a couple boob shots, and the production values are sub-par.

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 20, 2011 01:30 PM (L8TIZ)

45 I'm gonna guess that Libyan prostate cancer guy is feeling a mite jumpy at the moment.  Good.

Posted by: pep at October 20, 2011 01:30 PM (6TB1Z)

46 OT: I'm guessing that Soros looted Kudafi's safe and stole his billions.


Posted by: Cherry pi at October 20, 2011 01:30 PM (OhYCU)

47
1. Political correctness.
2. Erosion/undermining of traditional/family values (divorce, abortion, constant attacks on Christianity, pushing "tolerance")

That's how they beat us.

Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:31 PM (sqkOB)

48 What a racket.

US pays $1 billion, so Soros can send a few guys in to take $5 billion, and we get the Muslim Brotherhood.

Posted by: Cherry pi at October 20, 2011 01:32 PM (OhYCU)

49

I'm gonna guess that Libyan prostate cancer guy is feeling a mite jumpy at the moment.

 

He's a national hero.  He'll have very little to fear...

unless Obama decides he needs a bump in the polls.

Posted by: garrett at October 20, 2011 01:32 PM (44JuN)

50 world.

Posted by: KG at October 20, 2011 05:21 PM (LD21B)

Communism is as dead as I am

Posted by: Vlad Ulyanov at October 20, 2011 01:32 PM (UqKQV)

51 It's ironic that the Frankfurt School had to take refuge in the largest capitalist country in the world and returned to West Germany instead of East Germany after the war ended. They couldn't survive in a world of their making.

Posted by: polynikes - Texan for Romney at October 20, 2011 01:33 PM (i9cTu)

52 37 I was encouraged that Romney wouldn't allow Perry to talk over him in the debate. I think that was by design on his part, in order to address one of his potential weaknesses with voters. One of my biggest concerns about Romney is that he is too "Mormon nice" and won't get down and dirty when it's needed, and it will be needed. He stood eyeball to eyeball with Perry, who was shooting daggers at him, and didn't back down. Turning a bright shade of red didn't hurt either.

Proof positive that he has a set? No, but a useful data point.

Posted by: pep at October 20, 2011 05:27 PM (6TB1Z)

Yeah I'm real sure the moderators will take his side when he whines to them in a debate with Obama.

Posted by: buzzion at October 20, 2011 01:33 PM (GULKT)

53 I'll have my Frankfurt with mustard and raw onions.

Posted by: Leo Ladenson at October 20, 2011 01:33 PM (mAm+G)

54 Communism is as dead as I am

Still, I'm looking good.  The wonders of formaldehyde, don't you know. 

Posted by: Vlad Ulyanov at October 20, 2011 01:34 PM (6TB1Z)

55
We have a bunch of PC morons. Just sayin'

Hey ..... iTried to fix that....

Posted by: Steve Jobs at October 20, 2011 01:35 PM (C8hzL)

56 Yeah I'm real sure the moderators will take his side when he whines to them in a debate with Obama.

That's exactly the point.   We'll never have them on our side, so our candidate has to be tough enough to handle them. 

Posted by: Vlad Ulyanov at October 20, 2011 01:36 PM (6TB1Z)

57 "Critical Theory" -- AKA "whining for college credit."

Posted by: cthulhu at October 20, 2011 01:36 PM (kaalw)

58 Communism is as dead as I am Fine if that makes you happy. Names don't matter

Posted by: A guy named Putin at October 20, 2011 01:36 PM (aYQHH)

59

"I am thinking those idiots will never have a civilized society."

We are talking about a middle east country here. Water is wet etc....


 

Posted by: Bosk at October 20, 2011 01:36 PM (n2K+4)

60 Well, the hangover is gonna be a bitch, no doubt. Just like paying 1,000 to 1 for a soldier. Still, I'd do it again.


Posted by: roman maroni at October 20, 2011 01:37 PM (KCCgc)

61 Still, I'm looking good.  The wonders of formaldehyde, don't you know.

I was botox, before botox was cool.

Posted by: Vlad Ulyanov at October 20, 2011 01:37 PM (6TB1Z)

62 59 Yeah I'm real sure the moderators will take his side when he whines to them in a debate with Obama.

That's exactly the point. We'll never have them on our side, so our candidate has to be tough enough to handle them.

Posted by: Vlad Ulyanov at October 20, 2011 05:36 PM (6TB1Z)

And not cry to them like Romney did.

Posted by: buzzion at October 20, 2011 01:37 PM (GULKT)

63
incidentally, to all Cubs fans:

hahahahahahaha!

Thank you for taking Theo Epstein as your new president of baseball operations. He is a nerd and a Brookline, MA liberal snot.

Posted by: soothie at October 20, 2011 01:37 PM (sqkOB)

64 why is he falling for the gay marriage stuff so hard?

Excellent ? right there.

Somewhat related to the lefts Jihad on freeedom

GOP Freshman Rep. Receives Assassination Threat — FBI Involved

Posted by: Executioner at October 20, 2011 01:38 PM (EL+OC)

65

I am thinking those idiots will never have a civilized society.

Islamophobe!

Posted by: Ibrahim Hooper at October 20, 2011 01:38 PM (44JuN)

66 And not cry to them like Romney did.

I admit that I wish he hadn't done that, but he didn't stop there, so there's that.

Posted by: pep at October 20, 2011 01:38 PM (6TB1Z)

67

>>>It's ironic that the Frankfurt School had to take refuge in the largest capitalist country in the world and returned to West Germany instead of East Germany after the war ended. They couldn't survive in a world of their making.

That's the only upside in my view of a coming collapse. The people who egged it on won't survive the world they begged for.

Posted by: Ben at October 20, 2011 01:39 PM (wuv1c)

68 That's the only upside in my view of a coming collapse. The people who egged it on won't survive the world they begged for.

Brother, let me tell you.................

Posted by: Leon Trotsky at October 20, 2011 01:40 PM (6TB1Z)

69 Had an easy day and got started early. Damn I love beer! Since this is an open thread, I thought you all needed some happy 80's sort or teh ghey music. Help keep your mind off of trust fund douchebags, hippies, and dead dictators.


http://tinyurl.com/ylpp82m

Posted by: Samuel Adams at October 20, 2011 01:40 PM (lLxs/)

70
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu

Posted by: Dr. Varno at October 20, 2011 01:41 PM (QMtmy)

71

I've been sick yesterday

You've GOT to make sure the hobo is fully cooked Ace.  Get a meat thermometer.

Posted by: Ms Choksondik at October 20, 2011 01:41 PM (nxptv)

72

Islamic Republics for ALL my Muslim Brothers!

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at October 20, 2011 01:41 PM (44JuN)

73

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at October 20, 2011 05:39 PM (qjUnn)

Never let a crisis go to waste. There is some pre-election planning going on here. /s

Posted by: Bosk at October 20, 2011 01:42 PM (n2K+4)

74

The Frankfurt School has been a driver of the American academic left since the 1960s.   It's main thrust can best be understood as an intellectual justification for self-loathing by leftists -- yes, capitalism has worked to provide us material well-being and happiness, but we only think we're happy, we're really unhappy dupes in the thrall of the "system."   The most prominent proponent in America was Herbert Marcuse who said in his book One-Dimensional Man -- big in the 1960s -- that Americans are oppressed because "they find their soul in their automobile, hi-fi set, split-level home, kitchen equipment.”  They can't actually say that the working class is exploited, so they say that the working class is brain-washed -- it allows them to keep being Marxists while also feeling smarter than all the rest of us poor rubes who happen to like our cars and houses and nice things we've bought with the money we've made from actually working.  

 

I remember down at Duke a female grad student from South Africa (a Marxist-feminist who read a lot of Frankfurt School nuttiness) one time going off on me about how ugly America was with all its malls and restaurants and big houses and car dealerships.   I told her that I loved my country and that she could go back to South Africa if she thought America was so bad.   I'm pretty sure she told me I should go fuck myself.   Too bad:  she was actually pretty hot and I was hoping to get into her pants.  But, then, sometimes you do have to talk afterwards, and you have to have standards for that sort of thing.   The talking, I mean.     

Posted by: The Regular Guy at October 20, 2011 01:42 PM (qHCyt)

75 40 When you go down this rabbit hole, Ace, the inevitable conclusion will be that one cannot really successfully divorce cultural conservatism from economic conservatism.



You are correct, sir. Whether it's "amnesty, abortion, and acid" in the 1970s or "sodomy, stimulus, and Soros" today, culture liberalism is simply not a basis for a healthy culture and a stable and prosperous society.

Posted by: Leo Ladenson at October 20, 2011 01:42 PM (mAm+G)

76

Get a meat thermometer.

 

at the very least, Dry Brine for at least 1/2 hour.

Posted by: garrett at October 20, 2011 01:43 PM (44JuN)

77 sock off

Posted by: nevergiveup at October 20, 2011 01:44 PM (aYQHH)

78 Any guesses who the next tyrant will be in Libya?
Because after seeing the blood thirsty mob kill Gaddaffi... I am thinking those idiots will never have a civilized society. Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp

Good question.
"The Wall Street Journal describes one country that did win. Qatar.  Yes Qatar. The little kingdom is sponsoring an Islamic militant who was once a prisoner of the CIA for a leadership position in Libya"

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 20, 2011 01:44 PM (LHi9T)

79

I know it's before the Ewok standard of 100 comments, but this is one O/T y'all need to see if you haven't already.

Drudge had the link to the SCOAMF's last speech on his latest Magical Misery Tour to a "subdued crowd" to the LA Times site. The comments are about 99.9999% against said SCOAMF, which amazed even me, given that it's LA.

For y'all's perusal.

I think there's one leftard on there, and he gets beaten down more than Erg does here, if such a thing were possible.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 20, 2011 01:44 PM (d0Tfm)

80 Just be careful Herman. Heads may explode.


http://tinyurl.com/5umscew

Posted by: Samuel Adams at October 20, 2011 01:45 PM (lLxs/)

81 Critical Theory? Why, yes, it is our Bible. You think we could have come up with a viable plan to question everything and provide the atmosphere to do it on our own? And make money off of it?

Posted by: Higher Ed at October 20, 2011 01:45 PM (REXkU)

82 'm pretty sure she told me I should go fuck myself.   Too bad:  she was actually pretty hot and I was hoping to get into her pants.  But, then, sometimes you do have to talk afterwards, and you have to have standards for that sort of thing. 

Dude.   Priorities.

Posted by: pep at October 20, 2011 01:46 PM (6TB1Z)

83 Part II was much better than Part I, especially the sex scenes. The plot was still convoluted but the special effects were dynamite.

Posted by: Dr Spank at October 20, 2011 01:48 PM (L8TIZ)

84 Can I get me a bratwurst here?

Posted by: John 'fluffy' Kerry at October 20, 2011 01:51 PM (4pSIn)

85 91

Posted by: Bosk at October 20, 2011 01:55 PM (n2K+4)

86 Marx shot first.

Posted by: George Lucas at October 20, 2011 01:57 PM (MMC8r)

87

I gotta wonder just how fucked up those Frankfurt guys were...

I bet they were REAALLLLLY FUCKKKKED UP.

They were all bonkers.


Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz at October 20, 2011 01:59 PM (AMi60)

88 76
Campus Critical Crusade for Cthulhu

Posted by: Dr. Varno at October 20, 2011 05:41 PM (QMtmy)

YUM!

Posted by: cthulhu at October 20, 2011 02:02 PM (kaalw)

89 Chris Wallace: "The partisan fight over Fast and Furious continues"

Does he have an Obama 2008 sticker?

Posted by: Cherry pi at October 20, 2011 02:09 PM (OhYCU)

90 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at October 20, 2011 02:10 PM (fyOgS)

91 Somehow, the Frankfurt quest for a suitable revolutionary group in place of "workers" makes me want to break out in song.

Posted by: cthulhu at October 20, 2011 02:10 PM (kaalw)

92 I'd care, but I have Chronic Arkhamitis.

It's a thing.
I have to get back to my treatment.

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at October 20, 2011 02:13 PM (jqHOY)

93  When you go down this rabbit hole, Ace, the inevitable conclusion will be that one cannot really successfully divorce cultural conservatism from economic conservatism.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at October 20, 2011 05:28 PM (mg08E)

 

But it's true.  I have never believed that a nation can have a conservative economy along side liberal/leftist social values.  The two do not mix under any circumstances.  Why do you think George Washington as well as most of our country's founders emphasized that only a moral nation can maintain freedom and prosperity.

The idea of conservative economics with liberal social values is just another way the left uses to divide the conservative movement.    

 

Posted by: Soona - Tearorrist at October 20, 2011 02:23 PM (Zufb9)

94 I disagree with the above.
I believe in individual freedom. That is best achieved, if not only achieved, in an atmosphere of economic and social 'liberalism' -- if we understand 'liberal' to mean what it meant in the 1800s as opposed to today. By 'liberal' I mean that government leaves well enough alone, not banning nor promoting. Progressives and social conservatives both believe in laws for 'moral' purpose -- the disagreement is with the morality to be served.
Chuck 'em all, sez I.  Prohibition failed. Prohibition ALWAYS fails. So why keep trying it?

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at October 20, 2011 02:42 PM (jqHOY)

95 Everyone here should watch these.Spend 20 minutes and understand the enemy better.

Posted by: steevy at October 20, 2011 02:46 PM (fyOgS)

96 if we understand 'liberal' to mean what it meant in the 1800s as opposed to today. By 'liberal' I mean that government leaves well enough alone, not banning nor promoting.

I don't suppose you've looking into the sorts of laws regulating behavior that were commonplace in the 1800s? 

This libertarian fairy land has never existed, and certainly not when our Founders carried the day.

You may be surprised to understand how much of your thinking about cultural issues has been shaped not by our legal and political tradition, but by the cultural Marxists themselves.   

Posted by: Alec Leamas at October 20, 2011 02:48 PM (4DS5T)

97 It's nice to see someone posting on the Frankfurt school. We still feel the effects of those jerks in every aspect of life. Check out RWA sometime if you want to see full blown lunacy.

Posted by: Brad at October 20, 2011 02:50 PM (A2u2u)

98 Barney Frank graduated Summa Cum Loudly

Posted by: ontherocks at October 20, 2011 02:56 PM (HBqDo)

99 104 It's nice to see someone posting on the Frankfurt school. We still feel the effects of those jerks in every aspect of life. Check out RWA sometime if you want to see full blown lunacy.

Posted by: Brad at October 20, 2011 06:50 PM (A2u2u)

 

Could you be more specific about what RWA stands for?

Posted by: Ms Choksondik at October 20, 2011 03:04 PM (fYOZx)

100

@Andrew Brietbart,

I know you read the comments, so "hi" and stuff.

Can you send me Hannah's phone number? Her lawyers deleted it from my phone, but despite the restraining orders, I'm pretty sure she would love to hear from me.

Oh, I enjoyed the films you recommended to Ace.

 

 

 

Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at October 20, 2011 03:11 PM (hzV1U)

101 RWA = Right Wing Authoritarianism. It's an academic field that Ace has mentioned tangentially when he writes about "studies" that show that conservatives are mentally and personally defective. It was started, I believe, by Adorna.

Posted by: Brad at October 20, 2011 03:19 PM (A2u2u)

102 I was a graduate student in intellectual history in the early '70s and we all read a pretty big dose of Marcuse and the rest of the Frankfort school.  While I was never a Marxist, or even a socialist, it was indeed heady stuff for many young would-be intellectuals to find a theoretical justification for the f'ing like rabbits that the introduction of the pill had made possible -- and based on the heavy hitters of Hegel and Marx? wow!  I was never convinced, but then I never accepted Rousseau as an enlightenment thinker (more as a proto-romantic and alien in spirit to the systematic spirit of the Enlightenment -- read Ernst Cassirer on this stuff) and was always much more of a classical liberal and found the Scottish philosophers more congenial. 

At any rate, it always amazed me that vast numbers of kids read Marcuse without having the slightest clue about the context or the underlying work on which it was based and with which it was allied.  It's good to see people talking about it now. Part of the problem is that most people don't care about ideas on this level, and cannot believe anyone else does.  Believe it.  These ideas really motivate the intellectuals and activists who are pushing the left's agenda today. The kids marching with them who've been fed this stuff clearly don't understand the ideas, but they've been baffled by well done bullshit.

Posted by: CatoRenasci at October 20, 2011 03:39 PM (PSUua)

103 If these Frankfurters had lingered around The Reich just a little bit longer Hitler might have unintentionally saved Western Civilization two times.

But then what would Columbia have done for a majority of its curriculum?

Posted by: ontherocks at October 20, 2011 03:50 PM (HBqDo)

104 I don't suppose you've looking into the sorts of laws regulating behavior that were commonplace in the 1800s?

History major, so yes. And, no, there wasn't that much in some ways, depending on where you were. Prostitution, drugs, and other hallmarks of libertine behavior were either legal or quietly tolerated. Again, depending on where you were. There was also a lot of 'looking the other way' so long as 'decent' people weren't affected.

This libertarian fairy land has never existed, and certainly not when our Founders carried the day.

Neither did the 'city on a hill.' In any case, perfect government is not a destination to be reached, but a goal to strive for.

You may be surprised to understand how much of your thinking about cultural issues has been shaped not by our legal and political tradition, but by the cultural Marxists themselves.

Considering you are completely guessing at the totality of what I believe, I'll have to take your comment about the sources of my beliefs with the lack of regard they deserve. I know the sources of what I believe, and little of it is from the Marxists or anything else that oozed out of the vile pile of verminous filth that was Rousseau.


Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at October 20, 2011 04:20 PM (jqHOY)

105 I never accepted Rousseau as an enlightenment thinker (more as a proto-romantic and alien in spirit to the systematic spirit of the Enlightenment -- read Ernst Cassirer on this stuff)

Completely anti-enlightenment. Anti-logic, anti-knowledge, and the father of the whole notion that feeling trumps fact. If ever I am in France again I will shit on his grave.

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at October 20, 2011 04:22 PM (jqHOY)

106 Took me time to read all the comments, but I really enjoyed the article. It proved to be Very helpful to me and I am sure to all the commenters here! ItÂ’s always nice when you can not only be informed, but also entertained!

Posted by: When Elves Attack ePub at October 20, 2011 04:50 PM (OMloq)

107 History major, so yes. And, no, there wasn't that much in some ways, depending on where you were. Prostitution, drugs, and other hallmarks of libertine behavior were either legal or quietly tolerated. Again, depending on where you were. There was also a lot of 'looking the other way' so long as 'decent' people weren't affected.

I wasn't aware that your typical undergraduate History course included a survey of 1800s state laws and ordinances. 

Laws regulating sodomy, assignation, maintaining a bawdy house, vagrancy, fornication, corrupting public morals, solicitation to commit adultery, bestiality and blue laws were ubiquitous in 1800s America.  The police power reserved to the States was always understood - by the Founding Fathers - to empower the several states in furtherance of public health, safety and morals.  Our legal tradition simply doesn't contemplate your absolute right to fuck your colobus monkey "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone."  That was never what "liberal" meant until very recently.

Neither did the 'city on a hill.' In any case, perfect government is not a destination to be reached, but a goal to strive for.

Never said anything about a 'city of a hill.'  I'm simply citing the fact that traditional notions of morality were accepted norms, codified into law, and that there was nothing particularly controversial or "conservative" about this idea until the counterculture of the 1960s.  The fact that you seem to think that laws in existence from colonial times are the work of politically "conservative" and repressive busybodies, rather than an expression of the accepted, traditional, legitimate role of government is your "tell."  The notion that "legislated morality" is somehow repressive and oppressive, and that existing laws regulating sexual behavior must of necessity be repealed or invalidated grew directly out of the "liberation movements" spawned by the Frankfort school. 

Posted by: Alec Leamas at October 20, 2011 04:56 PM (4DS5T)

108 I have been absent for some time, but now I remember why I used to love this website. Thanks , I will try and check back more frequently. How frequently you update your web site?

Posted by: Steve Jobs epub at October 20, 2011 05:20 PM (OMloq)

109 I donÂ’t usually add my comments, but I will in this case. Nice work. I look forward to reading more.

Posted by: Death & Taxes ePub at October 20, 2011 05:47 PM (2CDMi)

110 I wasn't aware that your typical undergraduate History course included a survey of 1800s state laws and ordinances. 

Ok. Gloves off.
Firstly, you are a pompous mouth-breathing shithead product of incestuous rat-shit-eating meth addicts*.
Secondly; social, legal, economic, and other factors of life in the 1800's would in 10 out of 10 jurisdictions be considered part of history. No, I don't know every damned law of every damned place.
And neither do you, especially since you are an overbearing shithead pigfucker*.

Laws regulating sodomy, assignation, maintaining a bawdy house, vagrancy, fornication, corrupting public morals, solicitation to commit adultery, bestiality and blue laws were ubiquitous in 1800s America.  The police power reserved to the States was always understood - by the Founding Fathers - to empower the several states in furtherance of public health, safety and morals.  Our legal tradition simply doesn't contemplate your absolute right to fuck your colobus monkey "as long as it doesn't hurt anyone."  That was never what "liberal" meant until very recently.

I never said fuck-all about bestiality. I would see bestiality (and pedophilia) as being fundamentally immoral (whoops, there's that word) since the other participant is either unwilling or unable to consent in a legally satisfying way (ie, if you can't sign a binding contract, then you can't legally consent -- generally this is at 18, barring the kind of metal deficiencies that apparently plague you). Also, the SEVERAL STATES were empowered to do things, as you correctly note (in a broken clock way), and while some (even most) did enact blue laws, some didn't. And even if a law was on the books, it was frequently ignored unless things got indiscreet. Oddly enough, there were more prostitutes in puritan New England than sailors, despite prostitution being technically illegal. Also, the bulk of left-over blue laws don't date from early 1800's (psst that's the founders' time), but from the late 1800's and 1920's (which is a bit later than the founders). Note also that about six of the things you listed are all kind of part and parcel of prostitution -- adultery and solicitation thereto, fornication, bawdy house, sodomy (which includes every sexual act between the genders but one), vagrancy (oddly) and corruption of public morality were usually applied to pimps, bawds, and whores. Though the last also applied to actors on occasion, but since they're just EXPENSIVE whores, I suppose that fits.

Never said anything about a 'city of a hill.'

Except you are

 I'm simply citing the fact that traditional notions of morality were accepted norms, codified into law, and that there was nothing particularly controversial or "conservative" about this idea until the counterculture of the 1960s. 

Ok, so according to you, the whole 'flapper age' didn't exist? There weren't over 200 brothels in Manhattan alone in the 1820's? General Hooker's Division didn't exist? You point at words, but ignore the facts. The fact is that even where such laws existed (which wasn't everywhere) they were not usually enforced. Also, the push against excessive government with regards to morality predates the 1960's, predates the Frankfurt School, predates Marx, and actually predates the United States altogether! Or are you claiming Voltaire was being mind-controlled by time-travelling hippie graduates of the Frankfurt School of anti-morality?

The fact that you seem to think that laws in existence from colonial times are the work of politically "conservative" and repressive busybodies, rather than an expression of the accepted, traditional, legitimate role of government is your "tell." 

Your insistence that laws from the late 19th century and early 20th are 'colonial' is yours.
Well, that and your obvious (if less-than-generous) arousal around farm animals*.

The notion that "legislated morality" is somehow repressive and oppressive, and that existing laws regulating sexual behavior must of necessity be repealed or invalidated grew directly out of the "liberation movements" spawned by the Frankfort school.

Again, the push against 'legislated morality' can be found long before the Frankfurt school; hell, you can find it before Voltaire if you look. But more recently, Ayn Rand was critical of 'legislated morality,' too. I guess she was also a closet Marxist? Somehow brainwashed by the Frankfurt school, before it existed?

Pull your head out and accept that the human push against legal morality opting instead for decadence (sex, drugs, and new-fangled music) predates the 1960's and the Frankfurter political correctness police. You may need to open a history book, though. But there's a first time for everything, I suppose.

Also, until you accept that there is a kind of puritanism in the Marxist/Progressive Left, then they are going to be able to use you. The Left opposes prostitution because it demeans women and allows for the capitalization of sex. The Left opposes drugs and liquor because those are the tools the bourgeoisie use to numb the masses. The Left opposes any change to the laws regarding these things because that would restrict the power of the government to effect HOPE and CHANGE by breaking into any house and by arresting whoever they want whenever they want. And you go along with it, bought off by their arguments that it is 'traditional' and 'conservative.' I say the government has no goddamn business with what I do so long as I'm not hurting anyone else. And you have the gall to say I'M the one duped by the Left? YOU are the dupe, YOU are the idiot, and YOU are the one who is allowing the Left and its oppressive government free access to every home and to every act. YOU empower them, and YOU are their bitch.

That, and your mother is a 5 penny crack whore*.

* So the conversation is at a level you can comprehend with your tiny, little, moronbrain. "Frankfort."

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at October 20, 2011 06:47 PM (jqHOY)

111 Keep trying, Junior.  Maybe you'll fail better next time.  Think about who is writing your history books, fuckwit.  Heh, flappers  .  .  .  .

Posted by: Alec Leamas at October 20, 2011 07:08 PM (4DS5T)

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Posted by: Tamora Pierce Mastiff ePub at October 20, 2011 07:26 PM (wkzne)

113 Dirty Rotten Pink Commie Bastards ePub eBook. I've been looking for that all day!

Posted by: Entropy at October 20, 2011 08:20 PM (MGZjj)

114

The fact is that even where such laws existed (which wasn't everywhere) they were not usually enforced.

The most laissez-faire bastards in the world were the Victorians. Beneath the austere public veneer, there was a whore house on every corner. Coke, heroin, pot, booze, gambling, and hookers were all legal.

Social pressures were servere, because social pressures were all they used. Private charities and religious charities existed by and large, but they could impose what demands they pleased on those who where destitute and begging their aid.

Posted by: Entropy at October 20, 2011 08:28 PM (MGZjj)

115

A large part of some of the Founders reasoning on the morality of liberty was that extending such liberties and dangers necessitated the need for morality. In the Lockian sense that there is no morality without choice, being exposed to dangerous evils would necessarily breed the strong moral character needed to withstand them.

They believed that to the extent they put people in charge of themselves, they'd have to shape to hell up enough to handle it.

Coddle them and take away the choice, and you substitute government for morality. Now if someone is doing something very bad for themselves, it's because society has failed them in permitting it, not because they should just cut that shit hell out, or else probably die of it which does generally cut things the hell out. They are excused to persue immorality constantly where ever it can be managed, because it is the State's duty to restrict them, not they themselves, so their is no fault of their own to be found in their display of the natural (nihilistic) behavior that thus is used to argue the necessities of a nanny government.

That age old issue, if you let the stupid plebes vote they will vote for stupid things. If you let the stupid plebes decide what to do with themselves, they will do stupid unhelpful unproductive things. If you let the stupid black plebes off the plantation, they're probably all die of stupidity induced starvation.

People, we need our masters to think for us or we surely will hurt ourselves.

If we follow what they say, then if we get hurt, it will be them hurting us, we'll be blaimless victims and have grievance and right of redress.

Wait.....

What the hell video did I just watch??? Sounds kinda similar...

Posted by: Entropy at October 20, 2011 08:49 PM (MGZjj)

116

Completely anti-enlightenment. Anti-logic, anti-knowledge

In the sense that he was the proto radical egalitarian who's egalitarianism existed mainly as a purely opportunistic critique of prevailing rational liberal philosophies, literally. Anti-reason.

That egalitarian Class critique (embraced at the heart of original, failshit dispositive economic Marxism) being the precursor to the opportunistic 'I hate this shit so let's tear it down because whatever-I-have-to-say-to-get-to-what-I-want' left.

Whatever-I-have-to-say-to-get-to-what-I-want being the distilled essence of Critical Theory, Derrida's deconstruction which operates as a sort of literary Alinskyism, solipsistic Post Modernism, et. al.

Most of which boils down to critical emotional disaffection for capitalism in spite of having no goddamn good reason whatsoever. (The economic theories all fail spectacularly to match reality).

So it's reason itself that must be broken then.

Let's burn it.

Then in the brave new Post Frontal Lobe age, we will use our magic retard-vision and finally be able to see why capitalism and liberalism and freedom sucks and we must listen to our Lords.

Posted by: Entropy at October 20, 2011 09:21 PM (MGZjj)

117

The idea of conservative economics with liberal social values is just another way the left uses to divide the conservative movement.    

Which 'liberal' are you using?

There is a big difference between culturally marxist, left social values, which brag of promoting freedom the same way the Soviets did, and genuinely libertine social values.

Democrat voters may want to legalize drugs.

Democrat politicians resist the hell out of it, Barack is cracking down on Cali medical marijuana facilities. Democrat politicians want to ban salt.

They are anti-choice, down the line. They're just practicing a reverse-defined, bizarro sort of moralism you get by taking a negative photo of a puritanical moralist. The very definition of choice in this Newspeak language set is applied primarily to the ability to choose to erradicate the inconvienent.

Posted by: Entropy at October 20, 2011 09:33 PM (MGZjj)

118

Some of you jackasses need to read philosophy that grew out of Germany before you can even begin to understand the political talk involving morality here.  When God was proclaimed dead by some rotting-in-their-grave German philosophers a very long time ago, man began a long spiral into cultural and political despair.  That's why a great many sensitive thinkers and artists have gone on to overdose, hang, and shoot themselves dead.  When our presuppositions about "right" and "wrong" begin to change, so did our Western Civilization politics.  It starts with philosophy.  Then it moves into the arts.  Then on from there into our politics, theology and general culture.  If God is dead and morality is meaningless, man is nothing and has no hope.  We're lower than animals and the environment on the totem pole. Then we're all freakin' screwed, and a bit of Marxism and Communism will only give us a glimpse of the hell we face for eternity. 

Capitalism practiced without morality is as evil as Marxism and Communism.  Capitalism without morality is selfish, and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to observe the violence and destruction of a group of human toddlers being selfish together.  Grown selfish men believing they are their own little gods are pretty destructive too. 

Those who hold themselves accountable to no one else but self are the most vulnerable to corruption.

You may one day be free to get your num-nums from pigs and goats, perverts, but freedom to do such doesn't make polymorphous perversity RIGHT in the final book of unwritten moral laws.  It's inevitable that you're going to find out because I don't think any of us personally knows an immortal man.

"If it feels good, do it" is not a conservative motto.

Posted by: Free in my Bondage at October 21, 2011 06:38 PM (SQvIY)

119

Entropy:  "They believed that to the extent they put people in charge of themselves, they'd have to shape to hell up enough to handle it."

Well, we should think for ourselves, but I think it best when we humble ourselves to a revered greater power that doesn't govern us ultimately on Earth.  It only makes sense to consider the Creator of all things and see our places accordingly within the created.  The best leaders we've ever had have indeed (despite some egoism) still spoken of someone higher than themselves.  The godless among us do not make the best leaders.

Posted by: Free in my Bondage at October 21, 2011 06:43 PM (SQvIY)

120

"ultimately on Earth"

Let me clarify:  if we have been given freewill, we are left to make our own decisions.  And yet, we must consider that we are not gods and we are indeed responsible to a higher power if we are not to become corrupt in our mere humanity.  Morality is important, and it must play some part in our laws.  It is a fine line to walk between being permissive and being tyrannical.  This is why we have a Consitution and also why we should allow citizens to have a say in the common morality of their nation.

Again: 

Those who hold themselves accountable to no one else but self are the most vulnerable to corruption.

Posted by: Free in my Bondage at October 21, 2011 06:48 PM (SQvIY)

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