1 Tenterhooks. >>>> Tenter ... hooks. <<<<< and vodka.

2 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

3 Bombing the nuke program would delay it, but the Iranians would continue to try. Strangling the regime to death economically would work better in the long run. Not that I'm against blowing stuff up on top of economic sanctions to help expedite that process though.

4 Newt: it's a “fantasy” to think military attack could take out Iran nuke program, need to bring down regime via econ sanctions

Gah!  *This* is the man we're hoping will defeat Romney?

Hey, idjit: exactly how much good did "econ sanctions" do vs. Saddam Hussein?  And, by comparison to Imadinnerjacket, he's a model of sanity and humanitarianism.

5 Newt: it's a “fantasy” to think military attack could take out Iran nuke program, need to bring down regime via econ sanctions

Uh, what's fantastic is to think an economic sanctions regime could work. Really, that's a remarkably stupid thing to say.

6 But this is the problem with Newt: He's right in what he intends, in that a military strike is of limited effectiveness in the long run, but he would rather go for the incendiary rhetoric.

7 Strangling the regime to death economically would work better in the long run.

Ummm... how?  Seriously, they're a sovereign nation that prints their own money.  Unless you're suggesting every other productive nation on earth would actually abide by the sanctions.

8

O/T, but cool....

Neal Cavuto just tore up an Occutard on his show, and pretty much called her an asshole and not worth listening to, before he cut her off.

She was a part of the OccupyPortlandPorts bunch of idiots, who are causing trouble there at the ports.....and preventing products from being off loaded.

It was righteous.

9 In the long run we are all dead radioactive ash.

10 Man I'm trying to listen...but it makes me want to do the Diane Sawyer...

11
Newt: The combination of my big brain and the tools of the federal government at my disposal, there is no problem I cannot fix.

hmmmm, remind you of anybody?

12 Let's bring Palin back.

13 How are you going to really punish them with sanctions when Russia and China would just see that as an economic gift?

Don't see a blockade as viable either.

If in fact a covert war is in progress, beef it up and just play dumb.
That skillset seems to flow naturally in Onitwit's case, especially when dealing with muzzies.
 

14
just look at how well economic sanctions are working in N Korea and in Cuba

15

vis-a-vis Beck and Gingrich:

If it's Gingrich, then it's not-Romney. 

Beck and Romney are both Mormons. 

Let me wonder aloud, without suggesting anything nor casting any aspersion, whether this is a religionist position for Beck?

16 "Hey, idjit: exactly how much good did "econ sanctions" do vs. Saddam Hussein?"

They worked extremely well, although we weren't aware of the fact.

17 Asked before: If (when?) Newt collapses will there be a second look at Perry or will I have to argue with Huntsman supporters?

18 Sigh. This is why I could never jump on the Newt bandwagon. He always seems to find a way to outsmart himself.

19

Ummm... how?  Seriously, they're a sovereign nation that prints their own money.  Unless you're suggesting every other productive nation on earth would actually abide by the sanctions.

Well, Congress could pass a law making it illegal to trade with Iran and the State Department could use Smart Diplomacy^TM to get every other nation on earth to follow suit.  Easy Peasy.

 

 

/s/

20 The Dina Sawyer Cocktail- 1 Jigger White Lightening 2 Jiggers NyQuil Float of Jagermeister Garnish with a Vicadin.

21 Also,Joffen,I LIKE to repeat the obvious.Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.We must beat him.

22 see the updates in the middle about Iran. I am really starting to buy into this "erratic" meme.

23 In related news, Gingrich actually wrote a letter pledging to not cheat on his wife. He did that on his wedding day.

24

Wait, Newt is forswearing the military option with Iran?  !

Yeah, violence has never solved anything.  Good thing the GOP primary is full of McGovernite pacifist idiots.

25 sttevy, what device are you connecting with that has no space bar?

26 >>It was righteous.

Cavuto is hawt. 

27 Oh my gawd-did Huntsman just cop a line from The Scorpions!?

28 "... it's a “fantasy” to think military attack could take out Iran nuke program..."

Tell that to Israel (see also: Osirak)

"... need to bring down regime via econ sanctions..."

Because that worked so well on Saddam Hussein.

29

>>> Gingrich actually wrote a letter pledging to not cheat on his wife.

How does this differ from his marriage vows?

30 23 In related news, Gingrich actually wrote a letter pledging to not cheat on his wife.

He did that on his wedding day.

Posted by: Joffen at December 12, 2011 04:50 PM (zLeKL)

He had both fingers crossed behind his back, though.

31 25 It has one.I choose not to use it.

32 I support maintaining a military option against Iran on the table (and perhaps a second military option hidden in the cupboards waiting to burst forth).

But, in Iraq, apparently sanctions did work, to our everlasting surprise.

33 He did that on his wedding day.

Yeah, but this time he pinky-swears to be faithful.

34 2001 er, '91? wth Huntsman?

35 Let's bring Palin back.

Posted by: USS Diversity at December 12, 2011 04:48 PM (PddVe)

 

AHOY!!!!

36 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney.

37 36 Me too.

38 Tenterhooks. and vodka. I'm going with vodka and rocks.

39
is this debate Lincoln-Douglas style?

or Lincoln Continental style?

40 36 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 04:51 PM (nj1bB)

Save us, T-Paw! Save us!

41 Crap I missed the beginning of the Iran stuff...

42 @36 I've been saying that for weeks. You just can never tell with Newt.

43 "Hey, idjit: exactly how much good did "econ sanctions" do vs. Saddam Hussein?"

Worked great for me.

44 wow

45

RE: Iran's nuclear program

Q. How much of the snake do you need to kill?

A. Just the head.

Newt's statements seem in line with this understanding.

46

Sorry, but I'd vote for Romney's underwear if it meant no more JEPOS.

47 On paper, Huntsman looks fine, but live, Huntsman seems awful.

48

Economic sanctions work.  They invariably afefect those lowest on the socioeconomic ladder in the targetted country the most.  Therefore, they open the door for humanitarian aid.  And humanitarian aid is invariably intercepted by the powerful few who have led the targetted nation along the path we initially disagreed with.  So, since there is a lot of money and material flowing into the hands of the powerful, there is a lot of opportunity for graft, both inside and outside the country.  A lot of people will get very rich without having to create any jobs.  Therefore, economic sanctions prove my thesis.  Therefore, they work.  QED.

49 I also happen to think Newt has almost sewn this up. But he is scaring the crap out of me, and I am not very convinced he is conservative at all.

50 Romney is even more ball-less than Newt in foreign policy-yet for the general with Mittens you get less ball playing..so it's a wash.

51 @29 good question the letter is redundant

52 Gingrich actually wrote a letter pledging to not cheat on his wife. Does such a letter have 12 Steps to Fidelity, with 16 Points of Promise and a multi-tiered Plan for Conceptualizing Bliss?

53 In other words:

We're fucked.

54 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney. ---------- Why?

55 They worked extremely well, although we weren't aware of the fact.

Citation, please?  And worked at what?  If you mean it worked to stop him from expanding militarily-- to some extent.  Sort of.

The only reasons Saddam Hussein did not have nuclear weapons were that his scientists were super greedy, and no one quite wanted to take the gamble of selling him a working nuclear reactor.

He, personally, however, ate very well, got richer than Croesus, and could have walked away one of the richest (and, therefore, most powerful) men on earth at any time.

56 Are neutron bombs an option?

57

How does this differ from his marriage vows?

 

Simple.  The electorate wasn't at the wedding.

(You can blame ABC and the infidelity question for this)

58

How sad is it that some are beginning to take a second look at John f'n Hunstman? 

GOP LEADERSHIP FAIL

59 36 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 04:51 PM (nj1bB)

I agree.  I really don't see the marginal advantage of Newt, given his negatives.  He's just not that much more conservative than Romney and certainly less predictable.

60 >>>Why? Because constancy is more important to me than glibness.

61
Need I remind everyone that I rated Newt a Sell a couple of weeks ago in the middle of his surge?

Romney is still a Hold
Perry is still a Buy ( a lotta upside with this one, plus he's cheap right now)

62 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney.

  I'm with you on this. I never thought I would  ever be saying this. Newt is just that  bad  a choice. Damn they all suck...

63 Wait how did Newt jump from Korea to Ghana? Maybe the Diane Sawyer is getting to me...

64 I see a very small marginal advantage in conservative output from Gingrich, but almost entirely just because his base is more on the right of the Republican Party than on the left (the moderate wing), which is romney's base, but I think that is a very marginal and speculative thing, and at the end of the day I feel more comfortable with Romney's constancy than Newt's Big Super Idea of the Day.

65 Between Gingrich and Romney, Romney? Oh dear God.......

66 We may be in for a very interesting GOP convention. In the manner of the old Chinese curse about "interesting times."

67 I really don't see the marginal advantage of Newt, given his negatives.  He's just not that much more conservative than Romney and certainly less predictable.

But he can also speak well, which is something  lacking in the past two presidents. If Newt=Mitt, I'd rather have the guy than can sell me a load of shit in a convincing tone rather than a plastic tone.

68

It's impossible to really say that Gingrich is to the right of Romney.  Or vice-versa.

Given the choice, I'll go with the one with nice hair.

69 "The only reasons Saddam Hussein did not have nuclear weapons were that his scientists were super greedy, and no one quite wanted to take the gamble of selling him a working nuclear reactor."

I'm not talking about nukes (although it seemed to work in that respect too). See missing WMDs.

70 I'm drinking every time Newt mentions Reagan..

71 Chemical and biological weapons, in other words.

72
Newt just challenged Kim Jong Il to a round of golf.

73 You know what a uranium enrichment program needs?  Electricity, lots and lots of electricity.  You know what you can't hide?  A powerplant to supply that electricity.

Just sayin'.

74 So military strikes will not stop Iran from getting Nukes ha? maybe, maybe not. But it reminds me of an old joke: Money isn't everything but it's way ahead of anything in second place.

75 19

Ummm... how?  Seriously, they're a sovereign nation that prints their own money.  Unless you're suggesting every other productive nation on earth would actually abide by the sanctions.

Well, Congress could pass a law making it illegal to trade with Iran and the State Department could use Smart Diplomacy^TM to get every other nation on earth to follow suit.  Easy Peasy.

 Most morons already know this, but for the benefit of those that don't, the US already has economic sanctions against Iran. Which is one reason why Newt's argument is so profoundly stupid.

76 Newt presided during Clinton's RIF while embassies were being bombed so there's that...

77 36 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney. Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 04:51 PM (nj1bB) I am not in camp Gingrich by any stretch of the imagination. But seriously, if it comes down to bombing the shit out of Iran, given that military action is extremely unpopular with the public right now and likely will be for some time to come, do you really think he wouldn't also go down the "economic sanctions" route? It's the weenie way out of making that hard decision. It's also pretty much the first step- for the average mushy middle person- in the "diplomacy first, but getting more serious" on the road to actually bombing the shit out of them. I don't like it, but I can guarantee you my idiot relatives that consider themselves "centrists" and "independents" would flip the eff out over some "extremist" that suggested bombing Iran without going down the diplomacy trail first.

78 "If Newt=Mitt, I'd rather have the guy than can sell me a load of shit in a convincing tone rather than a plastic tone."

+1

79

In related news, Gingrich actually wrote a letter pledging to not cheat on his wife.

But I am reserving all of my options in the area of chronic masturbation.

80

But he is scaring the crap out of me, and I am not very convinced he is conservative at all.

 

He isn't.  He's a pragmatic guy though.  If you bring him to the table and show him how conservatism can aid in resolution, he'll run with it. 

(Which is why he needs a conservative vp and why we need to add more true conservatives to the Congress)

 

81 Newt: it's a “fantasy” to think military attack could take out Iran nuke program, need to bring down regime via econ sanctions
_________

Worked great with Cuba!

82 I still have stupid all over the soles of my shoes from the Harry Reid post.

83 omg now Newt is doing the Chilean model thing-which polls badly with Chileans because they want more control over their won money.

84

I like Newt, respect his intelligence, and would love to see him debate Obama. However, the lack of consistency and jumping around from position to position, seemingly from day to day, does bother me - a lot.

The idea of "Citizen Boards" dealing with immigration is loony. It was ripped apart on this site in a couple of hours by Ace and assorted morons. Nothing for nothing, but what was he thinking about?

I read a very thoughtful piece a few weeks ago about the feasibility of taking out Iran's nuclear program which was very logical and fairly optimistic. There was enough "meat" in that scenario to make me change my position on taking out Iran's nukes from "probably a pipe dream and not realistic" to "not a first option, but demonstrate logically to me why it would not work without the use of  demagogic sound bites" before glibly dismissing the idea.

And what the heck is this fidelity pledge? Jon Stewart's already licking his chops on that one. Come on, Newt.

85
It's funny, really.

After all the ups and downs and second-looks, we're right back to where we started...with Mitt Romney.

86 >>Gingrich actually wrote a letter pledging to not cheat on his wife.

That was his Contract With Matrimony, which may supersede any with America.

87 Are you looking at Bob Dole?

88

Well, I saw the first presidential campaign sign in my neighborhood today.

The good news is that is wasn't for Obama...

89

"But I am reserving all of my options in the area of chronic masturbation."

So Newt is a member of the Moron Horde?

90 Maybe the Diane Sawyer is getting to me... The Diane Sawyer 12 oz vanity vodka one Nyquil cap of Campari one Nyquil cap of Nyquil (Nighttime) crushed ice a splash of Gumout or other carburetor solvent Shake all ingredients in George Stephanopoulos' mouth, strain and serve in a Robitussin bottle with a Demerol chaser, pancake makeup and hot lights

91 "I am not in camp Gingrich by any stretch of the imagination. But seriously, if it comes down to bombing the shit out of Iran, given that military action is extremely unpopular with the public right now and likely will be for some time to come, do you really think he wouldn't also go down the "economic sanctions" route? " I meant to say "do you really think Romney" not just he. I don't care for Gingrich but I think he would bomb the shit out of Iran if/ when it comes to that. I have my doubts about Romney doing it if it's politically unpopular at the time.

92 I am thinking like this: We do not need something flashy and big to beat Obama. Someone putting in campaign performance in the 6-7 range would beat him. My worry about Newt is that his performance could swing from a 1 or 2 (those negatives) to an 8 (his ability to think quickly on his feet). But we don't need an 8, and we can't afford a 1 or 2. I consider Perry much more conservative than Romney and will support Perry over Romeny, even though Perry would have a lesser chance of winning the election, because if he DID win, he would in fact be more conservatie. That is, the gamble has a payoff, in my mind. But I do not consider Gingrich very conservative, and I don't think he's very electable, either. So why I am I gambling on him? If we're going to have a a RINO, give me the RINO who has the best chance to win, which seems to me to be Romney. He always is in the 6-7 range, never great, but never bad, either. Which will probably beat Obama (at least as it appears right now). I don't see why I should want to roll the dice on Gingrich when I'm not even convinced he's a conservative. if it's RINO time, I want the stronger general election RINO.

93
And I think it's time to face what's going on with Rick Perry.

The reason people won't get behind him is because of the specter of George W Bush that is following around Perry.

94 71 I'm drinking every time Newt mentions Reagan..

Posted by: Second Look at Bob Dole Committee at December 12, 2011 04:58 PM (r2PLg)

I'm drinking anytime anyone says anything!  Hey it's 5:00 in my boss's timezone.

95

"But I am reserving all of my options in the area of chronic masturbation."

So Newt is a member of the Moron Horde?

Posted by: Bosk at December 12, 2011 05:00 PM (n2K+4)

What?

96 Ha. No one has commented on anything Huntsman said (aside from me, but I brought to your attention this is going on now, so felt obligated to comment).

No one gives a crap what he's saying. All we're doing is commenting on what Newt says.

97 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 04:51 PM (nj1bB)

I'm done judging folks over their call in the cluster of a primary. Just remember this caveat. The field sucks because the establishment was playing games, picked Romney for this cycle, and tweaked the field for the primary kabuki theater.

For playing stupid games in a critical year in US history, I cannot forgive them; it really is unforgivable. So I oppose Romney just to spite the hand that fed him. That and I think Romney has no political courage whatsoever, and won't do anything meaningful to even slow our demise.

98 Or Huntsman. Again, assuming my options are limited to rino-ish candidates

99 71 I'm drinking every time Newt mentions Reagan..

Posted by: Second Look at Bob Dole Committee at December 12, 2011 04:58 PM (r2PLg)

Hope you're not driving anywhere tonight.

100

Because constancy is more important to me than glibness.

 

Mitt can't even get over 1/3 of the base for the primary.  He's been stuck on roughly 35% +/- the margins since this process began.

Also, he's from Ma. 

I should like to think Scott Brown would have cured us of the Mass. Rhino-Virus.

101 damnit...Rino-Virus

102 Huntsman made a good point about increasing costs in defense procurements, particularly airframes.

Of course, they're much more sophisticated now, both in terms of materiel but also avionics, communications, and assorted classified electronics (and weapon systems).

Still ...

103 36 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney.
----
I think it's a little early to decide that.  At least, it is for me.  We are just now seeing how Romney deals with pressure and we're discovering he may have a glass jaw. 

With Gingrich you get a guy who is certainly a big government Republican in many respects, so in a way he's one of "them" (the dreaded Establishment Republicans), but his gift of gab and willingness to be blunt endears him to the base.  Also in his favor is Newt's understanding of DC politics.  I'm sure he knows where many bodies are buried and could/would use that to his advantage, one would hope that occasionally that would yield big defeats of the Dems.  Obviously in the minus column for Newt are numerous scandals, bad policy positions, and his snarky mouth.

With Romney you get a guy who is a centrist, at best, but who is at his core a manager/executive type, which is certainly something we need.  Although he has not worked inside DC he is beloved by the Establishment types. His temperament, wealth, family, and political connections makes him one of them.  He would presumably get a lot of cooperation from DC Republicans, which could make him effective, but he really doesn't have any experience/success that I can see beating Democrats, particularly on the national stage.  Romney is unlikely to have any personal scandals, but his unwillingness to deal with direct questions about his record, coupled with the conservative media's somewhat kid-glove treatment of him up to now, make me wonder if there are things that should concern us either in his business dealings or campaign financing or time as governor.  (The staffers buying the hard drives story bugs me.)  Plus, there is simply no escaping that in the general his religion will be made an issue. 

To me, I still lean Newt.  I would rather have a Beltway insider who takes the fight to the Democrats and wins (on occasion) than a guy who seems really bad at direct confrontations and has made no bones about his disdain for conservatives in his own party.  They're both far from perfect, but I would be willing to work for Newt. 

104

26 >>It was righteous.

Cavuto is hawt.

Heh. He tries to hide how conservative is really is....but sometimes it just errupts into a righteous tirade.

105 And I think it's time to face what's going on with Rick Perry.

You mean like, he's already dead as a candidate, but every time he opens his mouth he manages to make himself deader?

106 The Diane Sawyer 12 oz vanity vodka one Nyquil cap of Campari one Nyquil cap of Nyquil (Nighttime) crushed ice a splash of Gumout or other carburetor solvent Shake all ingredients in George Stephanopoulos' mouth, strain and serve in a Robitussin bottle with a Demerol chaser, pancake makeup and hot lights Damn it add some absinthe- And take me drunk-I'm home!

107 23 In related news, Gingrich actually wrote a letter pledging to not cheat on his wife.

He did that on his wedding day.   This time he means it.  Swearsies.   ---------   36 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney.

Me too.  I like Paul's economics approach, but not his foreign policy craziness or complete lack of any seriousness as an actual executive.    Really, executive experience/competence is incredibly important to me, so it pretty much comes down to Romney or Perry.    Even though I loathe Perry (long story, but me and the Perry machine in Texas got crosswise in a business deal where they went all out with lies, corruption, political backhandedness, and general scumbaggery), he might end up with my vote if he's still in the running.   Otherwise its looking like Romney or another write-in vote for my favorite philosopher, Jesus Christ.

108
You mean like, he's already dead as a candidate, but every time he opens his mouth he manages to make himself deader?

yeah, I guess that's part of it, too.

109 Legal Insurrection and Jonathan Last have some sobering observations about Mitt's vaunted electability. Others have linked this today. http://legalinsurrection.com/?p=12789 Sadly, Mitt may be the best bet nevertheless. However, wait until Axelrod gets out the long knives. This is gonna be ugly, fellas.

110 And Newt piggybacked off of Huntsman's military airframe procurement statement to make a similar point about NASA.

And Newt's right.

111 Mark Steyn put it this way: Gingrich is the worst of all possible worlds, because, *rhetorically*, he's a red-meat guy who likes to play to the base with *words*, so he can be portrayed as a rightwing extremist; but in reality, he's a moderate northeastern-ish Republican. So if we're gonna have that kind of guy, either way, I gotta say I do not see why I don't just pick the one who seems more appealing to the moderates we're courting.

112 96 Ha. No one has commented on anything Huntsman said (aside from me, but I brought to your attention this is going on now, so felt obligated to comment).


Of course not. He was a Bambi stalking horse from the beginning, or else he's mentally masturbating in a very, very expensive way. Either way he's even less of a factor than Gary Johnson, and that's saying something.

113 The field sucks because the establishment was playing games, picked Romney for this cycle, and tweaked the field for the primary kabuki theater.

So where does the Jew Gold fit into all of this?

114 The snark is actually in the plus column for me. If you can't be good, at least be funny.

115 Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2011 05:02 PM (sqkOB) ---- Gimme a god damn break.

116
Bachmann zinged Noot the best.

"We don't need a stingy socialist in the White House."

117 I do not see why I don't just pick the one who seems more appealing to the moderates we're courting. Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 05:07 PM (nj1bB) Don't you just love how we gotta sell ourselves out for 12% of the country. Meh, I'm getting hammered tonight.

118 It was always going to be Romney. Why did you all make such a fuss?

119 Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 05:02 PM (nj1bB) I dunno. I understand the calculation but I'm one of those crazy folks that doesn't see Romney as being all that electable in the general. Look, no matter who we put up the media is going to tear into. I know that. But to this point, they've been mostly holding their fire on Romney. I'm telling you, those videos of him last time around saying, "I like mandates. Mandates work," and other such stuff are going to seriously bite him in the ass in the general. And there's a reason why he hasn't done much in the way of interviews like he recently did with Brett Baier: because that flustered, pissy version of Mitt is what you get when he gets seriously challenged. He did that same crap last time around in the debates. He's just gotten better at the debate format, is all. In the general, he's going to have todo a lot more of the Baier-type stuff and I don't think it's going to be pretty. Again, not in camp Gingrich. I'm a Perry person and still holding out hope. But if it comes down to Gingrich and Romney, I think Romney goes down in flames faster and you have at least a chance of Gingrich enacting some conservative stuff even if it's not politically popular, whereas you have none with Romney. That's my calculation anyway.

120 Newt sucks! Go Romney! No one should get to be married all those times when some of can't get married even once. Romney is best for teh gays!

121 Legal Insurrection and Jonathan Last have some sobering observations about Mitt's vaunted electability. Others have linked this today.

http://legalinsurrection.com/?p=12789

Mitt isn't electable nor is Huntsman. No way 2 Mormons get the right wing Christian base's support en masse.

That's how I see it. I hope I'm wrong.

122

So if we're gonna have that kind of guy, either way, I gotta say I do not see why I don't just pick the one who seems more appealing to the moderates we're courting.

The moderates are a myth.  Like the Yeti or its NorthAmerican cousin, the Sasquatch.

123 Yeah, me too. I'm getting drunk tonight.

124 I'm going to vomit....

125 OT: How come every time there is a bedroom scene in a movie or television show, the bed looks unnaturally short? They are always very wide but I don't see how even the female actress's feet would be hanging a foot off the bed.

126 Hey, Ace, maybe you should light a fire under gunwalker like you did Weiner on the off chance some of it sticks to the SCOAMF and we can get him gone that way (yeah, slim chance).

Biden would be easier to beat with this fubar field.

127 I don't like any of these guys... I'll just have to go with the one that most recently balanced a budget.

128 How sad is it that some are beginning to take a second look at John f'n Hunstman? 

GOP LEADERSHIP FAIL

Posted by: dan-O at December 12, 2011 04:55 PM (sWycd)

No.  Absolutely not.  We are not run by some GOP Illuminati. I have seen the enemy and it is us.  We're doing slightly better this time.  Instead of splitting the vote, we're hopping from one bandwagon to another.

But still, we doom ourselves. We look at decent candidates and declare one flaw mars the whole surface and look at marginal ones and point out the pewter coin in the pile of mud.

129 Is it too late to hogtie and gag all the candidates and leave them in a closet until after the elections, and start over with a fresh set?

130 So if we're gonna have that kind of guy, either way, I gotta say I do not see why I don't just pick the one who seems more appealing to the moderates we're courting.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 05:07 PM (nj1bB)

Give yourself to the Dark Side. It is the only way you can save your friends.

131 if it's RINO time, I want the stronger general election RINO. Yep... During the last debate the point that got the most emotional reaction was _______. Forst that cake with the hypocrisy icing and Newt is almost impossible. Thing is at least he admits n the past he was wrong... Mitt won't give up the RomneyCare ghost..gawd what a mess.

132 Plenty of people have made careers out of writing Rick's obituary.


HOLD   FAST

133 "A Republic, if you can keep it." Can we? This is our responsibility, folks.

134 127 I don't like any of these guys... I'll just have to go with the one that most recently balanced a budget. Posted by: Mr. Lurky McLurkington, Esq. at December 12, 2011 05:10 PM (9ks0K) Which is why I'm gonna have to pull for the Grinch and have a vom bucket on stand-by.

135

To me, I still lean Newt.  I would rather have a Beltway insider who takes the fight to the Democrats and wins (on occasion) than a guy who seems really bad at direct confrontations and has made no bones about his disdain for conservatives in his own party.  They're both far from perfect, but I would be willing to work for Newt. 

The thing with Newt being a fighter, though, is that he's also pretty erratic.  He might be fighting for Republican principles or he might be fighting for some loony fruitcake notion he's convinced himself is the next great leap in human civilization, or he might just be fighting against conservative principles because what the hell.  Mitt is too cautious to ever call the GOP budget plan "right-wing socialism" and then double down when called on it.

136 So depressing thinking about having to listen to all the campaign bullshit for another year without a decent candidate.

137 Don't feel bad ace. Almost everyone who has ever worked with Gingrich feels the same way. That should be all you need to know.

138 shoot I sturred my drink with ma finger and it's numb...

139 >>>. I understand the calculation but I'm one of those crazy folks that doesn't see Romney as being all that electable in the general. Look, no matter who we put up the media is going to tear into. I know that. But to this point, they've been mostly holding their fire on Romney. I'm telling you, those videos of him last time around saying, "I like mandates. Mandates work," and other such stuff are going to seriously bite him in the ass in the general. True, and his glass jaw, as was pointed out upthread. But: Businessman; governor; family man with a very nice family. Looks good. No baggage apart from all the flip-flops. Bear in mind Newt was a big believer in Mandates too.

140 Sadly, Mitt may be the best bet nevertheless. However, wait until Axelrod gets out the long knives. This is gonna be ugly, fellas.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at December 12, 2011 05:06 PM (AZGON)

Yeah, it's going to be all about how weird mormonism is, and they'll also play the "OMG he's a Wall Street insider!" card. It could be highly effective too, because lots of people are (a) weirded out by mormons and (b) susceptible to class warfare.

141 I'm getting drunk tonight.

I don't even drink, and I'm considering that possibility.

I'm going to vomit....

Of course, then I'd do that, too...

142 How sad is it that some are beginning to take a second look at John f'n Hunstman? 

GOP LEADERSHIP FAIL

How is it the RINOs fault of the conservatives didn't run a good candidate?

143 One thing is certain. Romney will have to grow a thicker skin. If Brett Baier can leave a blister, just think what our real enemies in the media will do.

144
Funny thing about moderates.

Moderates never vote for moderate candidates. At the end of the day they choose the ideological candidate who best suits their interests.

145

Shake all ingredients in George Stephanopoulos' mouth, strain and serve in a Robitussin bottle with a Demerol chaser, pancake makeup and hot lights and soak a Tampon in them.

fixed

146

Gingrich sucks just as badly as Mittens, he's just better informed on a lot of stuff.

147 This Republican Convention is gonna be my kind of convention. Me and that Dark Horse Fella

148 Perry should have Tim Tebow stump for him.... We need a miracle

149 @143 Stay away from the maddog. There's vomiting, and then there's Exorcist vomiting.

150 OT: @AP: BREAKING: Canada says it is pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol on climate change.

151 But: Businessman; governor; family man with a very nice family. Looks good. No baggage apart from all the flip-flops.

The problem is he can't get sufficient support on the right.*



*I.e., from conservative Christians

152 Of course, the best candidate, Rick Perry, is not even worth mentioning anymore because the MSM tells us to.

153 Canada says it is pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol on climate change.

That was days ago that they said that, but cool.

154

Bear in mind Newt was a big believer in Mandates too.

 

Arguing for something (in the abstract) and signing it into law are much different things, mon frer.

155 I do not see why I don't just pick the one who seems more appealing to the moderates we're courting.

Well minimally I think even with a RINO, if we have to settle, we need someone who has the balls to do some risky things. Mittens is *not* that guy. The only hill he is willing to defend against adverse polls is that Romneycare is a good thing for Massachusetts.

156 As for Newt fighting, it seems to me he's anti-liberal, but not conservative. And my problem is that whenever an idea hits him that is not what the liberals want, he decides it's "conservative." Like mandates. But he does this a lot -- just proposes some OTHER mechanism to do the basic thing the liberals want done. So he gives a good talk about liberals being all dumb and stuff but at the end of the day he's still sort of in favor of stuff I'd personally call liberal in spirit. he just wants to add some "market forces" widget to it. And unlike beck, I wouldn't necessarily dismiss him for that; but at the end of the day, this is moderate Republican "Third Way" stuff. And if we're going to have that one way or the other, then why not the guy who seems more likely to win?

157 Oh gawd...Huntsman just said something in Chinese and I don't think he bothered to translate it...

158 Arguing for something (in the abstract) and signing it into law are much different things, mon frer. ---- Are they?

159 >>>Well minimally I think even with a RINO, if we have to settle, we need someone who has the balls to do some risky things. Mittens is *not* that guy. Oh yeah? Whose plan on Medicare is further to the right and closer to the Ryan plan? This is again a "Newt TALKS all fiery and TALKS a good game" but then check the policy details and what is it? It's moderate.

160 Iran is not a threat ... ya'll chill ...

161

Are they?

 

Why yes.  Thet are.

162 depressing.

163 I give Huntsman credit, he is smart about some things but POTUS?  No way.

164
Why does Jon Hunstman think he can win the GOP nomination by speaking Commie?

No thank you, sir.

165 And unlike beck, I wouldn't necessarily dismiss him for that; but at the end of the day, this is moderate Republican "Third Way" stuff. And if we're going to have that one way or the other, then why not the guy who seems more likely to win?

That would be Newt.

166 How will "econ sanctions" work when Russia is helping with Iran's nukes (so they won't sanction) and China subverts because it's something America wants? Besides, any assets at all, even if limited, will still be diverted to the nuke program even if it means their people suffer. They know that to be a player, you need nukes. Even a frustrated Iranian public can be convinced of the regime's prioritization.

In the land of lollipops and sparkles, econ sanctions by itself works.

167 Y'all know there's a reason I only SUSPENDED my campaign.

168 Second look at the bald guy who quotes Led Zeppelin?

169 Stay away from the maddog.

The wife would probably kill me if I drank anything other than Jack & Coke or Crown & Coke.

She doesn't drink often, but when she does, it doesn't involve a fluted glass or an umbrella.

170 I'm getting drunk tonight.

I don't even drink, and I'm considering that possibility.

I'm going to vomit....

Of course, then I'd do that, too...

As tempting as getting hammered is I'm going to do something more wholesome: watch Polar Express with the wife & kids then turn in early. I'm so tired I can barely stay awake now.

171 The thing with Newt being a fighter, though, is that he's also pretty erratic.  He might be fighting for Republican principles or he might be fighting for some loony fruitcake notion he's convinced himself is the next great leap in human civilization, or he might just be fighting against conservative principles because what the hell.

Yes, that's true. 

But remember how we're supposed to be reassured that a conservative Congress will pull Romney to the right?  Why isn't that also true of Newt?

I guess part of it for me is that I'm just not that impressed by Mitt's resume.  At least Newt has won some things on a national stage and I believe that he does actually have some conservative principles.  I don't see that in Romney at all. 

172 "VerumSerum notes Gingrich previously said he had no problem talking with the Iranians, "so long as they understood we planned to eliminate them," and speaking of the great need to "move very aggressively" to replace the Iranian regime-- "nonviolently if possible, with military force if necessary." I don't know how that squares with his new "economic sanctions" position"

I'm confused - by you, not by him.  The quote you have has him saying military strikes alone won't eliminate their *nuclear program,* and that regime change is necessary; the VS quote has him saying military force is one option for regime change.

Where's the contradiction?

173 156 >Canada says it is pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol on climate change.

That was days ago that they said that, but cool.

They were definitely moving in that direction but now it is official.

174 they'll also play the "OMG he's a Wall Street insider!" card. Remember the "Romney looks like the guy who fired you" aspersion? They'll beat on that like a Cuban heel on a cockroach. Plus, he'll get a financial colonoscopy so deep they will be looking at his uvula. We'll know not only how many houses he owns, but at what prices, with what furnishings, the number of bedrooms compared to the Struggling Middle Class Family... and so on.

175 And my problem is that whenever an idea hits him that is not what the liberals want, he decides it's "conservative." Like mandates.

Here's the Conservative Healthcare Mandate :  "You pay for your care.  Otherwise you can't expect to get it."

176

Ha, yo choing ching choing cho

 

177 He didn't say that he was taking the military option off of the table, he said that you cant eliminate Iran's nuke program through bombing.

178
I just have one question about this debate I'm not watching: Is Newt mopping the floor with Huntsman in this debate or is it a draw?

179

Ace, we've bandied about the idea of a truly conservative Congress being able to keep a moderate-leaning president in line (IIRC).

Who do you think would be easier to corrall: Mitt or Newt?

I'd like to think it's Newt, since he's already been in Congress. I also feel Mitt would pretty much be clueless when it comes to actual leading on issues, since he is, for all intents and purposes, a Dimocrat.

 

I still want Perry to be Prez, don't get me wrong. I still can't figure out why we can't engineer that outcome, much like the idiots on the left engineered The SCOAMF's rise to power. Do we need a sugar-daddy like Soros? How come there's no one like that on the right?

180 Great line. "If we insist on being domestically stupid, it is impractical to ask the Chinese to match us in stupidity."

181 Oh gawd...Huntsman just said something in Chinese and I don't think he bothered to translate it...

Barbarian devil!  I'm a 96 in the Utah Tong.  I'll twist that soda straw you call a penis into a Christmas bow and mail it back to you.

182 Posted by: Emperor of Icecream, Cultist for Jesus Don't you have some vested interests to completely disclose here Cultist?

183 Instead of mandates the conservative alternative is signing a waiver of the present law and that hospitals and medical providers don't have to treat you if you chose not to obtain insurance.

184
I mean if Newt can't stand out against a Jon Huntsman...what does he bring to the table, again?

185 >>>Who do you think would be easier to corrall: Mitt or Newt? >>>I'd like to think it's Newt, since he's already been in Congress A lot of his former colleagues in congress -- conservatives -- hate him for selling them out and making deals with Clinton. And for having one position at 12am at night and then another one at 8am when he spoke to the press.

186 Michael Savage offers Newt 1 million dollars to get out of the race. Glenn Beck says he will go third party and support Ron Paul over Newt. And Jim Huntsman is Jim Huntsman. Why are we talking about two certain losers.

187 They were definitely moving in that direction but now it is official.

Coolbeans.

188

why not the guy who seems more likely to win?

 

Well, the polls make that case against you. 

When you factor in the margin of error, Newt and Romney are essentially tied when facing Obama.

Newt is kicking Mitt's ass with the base.

Add'em up and I get Newt every time.  I'm not happy about it, but there you go.

 

 

189 I mean if Newt can't stand out against a Jon Huntsman...what does he bring to the table, again?

Callista with a leash?  I think I read that somewhere.

190 You know, I took a second look at Huntsman and his policies are OK. Plus he's backed off the whole global warming lie a bit.

But he's still a smarmy, snarky little brown-nosing prick.

Nevertheless, I'd swim through piranha-infested rivers to vote for him over the SCOAMF.

191

Obama is losing the Moderates. .....True.

But if we don't give those Moderates someone to vote 'for'.....then they will stay home. ....That 'anyone-but-Obama' thing will only go so far. It's not as strong as we hope it is.

192 This debate is basically- An- I was at dinner with ________ contest.

193 Why are we talking about two certain losers.

Because, currently, Newt is leading the polls by a hefty margin (as these things go, anyway).

194 @192 Dude, you ARE drinking!

195 >>>Remember the "Romney looks like the guy who fired you" aspersion? They'll beat on that like a Cuban heel on a cockroach. What's Gingrich look like? heavy, white haired soft white guy? >>>Plus, he'll get a financial colonoscopy so deep they will be looking at his uvula. And gingrich won't? And gingrich's money was coming largely from lobbyists and special interests in DC. And that money is cleaner?

196

"why not the guy who seems more likely to win?"

 

Well, the polls make that case against you. 

When you factor in the margin of error, Newt and Romney are essentially tied when facing Obama.

Newt is kicking Mitt's ass with the base.

Add'em up and I get Newt every time.  I'm not happy about it, but there you go.

Great points.

197 So we can forgive Newt for endorsing Dede Scozzafugula but Rick Perry is persona non grata. Just checking.

198 36 This is not going to be popular at all, but if my choice is between Romney and Gingrich, and Perry is not an option, I think I am leaning towards Romney.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 04:51 PM (nj1bB)

Yep me too. And I say this as a big supporter of Newt back in the 90's.

But the reality is that Newt has been very erratic and in the last decade there's been a big gap between the red meat conservatism that comes out of his mouth and what he actually does and the policies he supports.

Newt is exciting but he's also a political Icarus who will always fly too close to the political sun. I find Romney extremely bland and uninspiring, but the odds of a Romney-implosion are much lower. And I suspect that the way that they would govern if they were elected wouldn't be all that different.

199 Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 05:12 PM (nj1bB) Yeah, you're right, he was. I guess the difference for me is that Newt has backed off it and said it was wrong. That and the whole in context thing. I know why he and Heritage suggested it back in the Hillarycare debate. But again, he backed off. Romney is still talking about how great Masscare is. Like I said, I definitely understand the calculation. But I also have close relatives that are those mushy middle folks (ie, uninformed, don't want to seem extreme). These folks-whom I do love to death and you aren't going to believe me but they really aren't idiots, just uninvolved politically- get a lot of their news from Jon Stewart and CNN. They've already started the "Mitt the hypocrite" stuff after the latest Stewart bit about Romney and the flip-flops. They don't care enough to make the distinction between a mandate at the state level and one at the federal level. They also don't get too bent out of whack over Gingrich's baggage thus far. It's kind of old hat at this point. So my inherent distrust of Romney's finger-in-the-wind coupled with my "independent" relations factors into my calculations on this one and Newt comes out ahead. But like I said, I can see where someone comes out on the other side of it, even if I don't agree.

200 I'm done judging folks over their call in the cluster of a primary. Just remember this caveat. The field sucks because the establishment was playing games, picked Romney for this cycle, and tweaked the field for the primary kabuki theater.

Bullshit.  It is not some sort of conspiracy.  People support Romney for a reason.  Several, in fact.  You may not like those reasons, but they exist.  He's been campaigning for 5 years.  He's built an organization, people know him.  But there's no gonzo candidate the "establishment" is keeping down.

Hell, you could make the case that Perry was sabotaged by the overly persnickety conservative base, although the ghost of W may be haunting him, as was said above.

We're all young...ish and full of vigor, but the last time we had a GOP contender this good was 1984.

Seriously.  Bush 41: "Kinder, gentler America" -- he wanted to placate the liberals and implied that the rancor was Reagan's fault.  Also, "No new taxes."
Dole: The less said, the better.
Bush 43: "Compassionate conservatism" "No child left behind" -- if it weren't for 9/11, he'd be on the same pile as Nixon and Ford.
McCain: The guy who made a living of bashing the GOP.

And there was nobody else in the field that is simultaneously experienced charismatic and conservative.

201

I know this sounds completely fangirlish, and I don't care.

Our company just hired a new sales director: A woman who went to Notre Dame on an ROTC scholarship, served in Iraq as a Blackhawk pilot, and then got her MBA from Harvard.

Our company has had its collective head up its arse lately, placing credentials above experience or ability. Then, inside of six months, let the Ivys run around here like they own the place which, in a company with an average tenure of about 25 years, is saying something.

THIS gal, however, I am so tickled to meet!

Note to all you Ivy Leaguers out there who think you own the world, there is always someone else even more capable, and with even better credentials, than you.

_{Rant over}

202 Just to keep this discussion on focus, remember: ANY BODY BUT obama

203

Romney's Mormonism is a problem, but probably not on the right (i.e., conservative Christians).  Except for fringe elements, most will decide that electing someone who is going to hell is better than electing someone who is going to drag the country to hell.  Prominent pastors and Huckabee/Perry types will push for Romney (if he's the candidate) and that will be it.

The problem is the moderate middle, which means clueless uninformed ninnies who vote based on prejudice and misinformation.  The tolerant MSM will spray anti-Mormon propaganda 24/7.  Obama will run the mother of all whispering campaigns.  And publicly Obama will go hard after the fact that Romney had a real job in the real world.

But . . . going negative is Obama and the MSM's only hope this cycle, so that's going to happen to anybody.  With Perry, it would be 24/7 gaffe coverage (real or manufactured) and thinly-sourced corruption allegations and accusations of extremism.  With Gingrich, it would be his dirty personal life, his dirty approach to, erm, the acquisition of personal wealth, and his numerous extreme and even loony-sounding statements.

None of these guys have the personal charisma to make the accusations roll off of them.  Conservatives are kidding themselves that Newt does, but we've already seen him effectively hounded from office by an attack campaign.  Can and will happen again.

Of the three, I think the attacks on Romney will be marginally less successful.  But since I'm Mormon myself, maybe that's wishful thinking.

Anyway, this stuff is hard to calculate.  I wouldn't recommend making a decision based on who will be hardest to smear.

So, for me, Gingrich's serial fidelity is a problem not because I think Joe Sixpack will care, but because I care.

204 And for having one position at 12am at night and then another one at 8am when he spoke to the press. Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 05:20 PM ***** Makes you wonder what happened during the "down" time doesn't it?

205 I am really worried that Newt Gingrich actually has wildly divergent opinions on things depending on the hour of the day.

Exactly, his thing is the college professor schtick where he really isn't interested in results he's only interested in what will garner the most discussion so he can show off that big brain he thinks he has.

206 @200 I share the sentiment, but at this point, Perry is hurting because he doesn't project as a "winner." I wish he could find a way to do so.

207 Oh yeah? Whose plan on Medicare is further to the right and closer to the Ryan plan?

This is again a "Newt TALKS all fiery and TALKS a good game" but then check the policy details and what is it?

It's moderate.

Oh I'm really not arguing that. What I'm arguing is that the instant the third rail gets touched; and it must be just to get a little hope of getting things under control, the public goes into "I WANT MINE" mode and whatever plan is out there dips in the polls, Romney will retreat, Newt will take the unpopular side and try and convince folks that changes need to be made.

All I see from Romney is a proposal, blowback, and ultimately putting the very last kick on the can, the one that sends it over the ledge.

208 ANY BODY BUT obama ---- No. We need a better philosophy. We need to actually put some thought into choosing our candidate.

209 Oh gawd...Huntsman just said something in Chinese and I don't think he bothered to translate it...

Posted by: Diane Slaywer at December 12, 2011 05:15 PM (r2PLg)

Da-shiang bao-tza shr duh lah doo-tze.

210 the Perry machine in Texas got crosswise in a business deal where they went all out with lies, corruption, political backhandedness, and general scumbaggery)

I got friends who say similar things about doing business with him before he went into politics.  Bob Dole is looking really good about now.

211 What's Gingrich look like? heavy, white haired soft white guy? And gingrich won't? And gingrich's money was coming largely from lobbyists and special interests in DC. And that money is cleaner? Perhaps you miss my point. Of course Gingrich will get biased scrutiny. I'm addressing (in my narrow head) the blithe dismissals many Romney supporters have about Romney's electability and public image. He's not immune to MFM pressures and bias.

212 but Rick Perry is persona non grata.

Unfortunately, after his back surgery, Perry doesn't appear to be physically fit enough to handle campaigning, and I worry about his stamina in office.

FDR at Yalta (giving away half of Europe against Churchill's ire)? JFK and the cuban missile crisis (and giving away the Thor and Jupiter IRBMs in Turkey)?

FDR and JFK both had back pain and treatment sapping their strength. It's sapping Perry's strength. I think that's a problem in a President.

213 Dole: The less said, the better. Bob Dole has eight inches and four hours that speak for themselves.

214

192.....Callista with a leash?

It would have to be attached a diamond-studded collar from Tiffany's.   ....It's what all the best-dressed female seagulls insist on.

215 I am no longer going to get into the arguments. If it comes down to a choice between the Mutt and the Newt we have already lost. I have serious doubts that either will win an election against Obama.

If Newt gets the nod a lot of people in the NE will sit out the election. If Mutt gets it a lot of people in the South will sit it out. Either way, we lose.

216 Unfortunately, after his back surgery, Perry doesn't appear to be physically fit enough to handle campaigning, and I worry about his stamina in office. FDR at Yalta (giving away half of Europe against Churchill's ire)? JFK and the cuban missile crisis (and giving away the Thor and Jupiter IRBMs in Turkey)? FDR and JFK both had back pain and treatment sapping their strength. It's sapping Perry's strength. I think that's a problem in a President. ----------- I see Perry doing way better than he was, but you see what you want.

217 s'all good

218 McCain: The guy who made a living of bashing the GOP. Like father, like daughter.

219 Miss'80s: "Canada says it is pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol on climate change."

Hmm. Maybe those moonbats weren't so loony after all when threatening to move there in the Bush years. With USS Obama listing so much, I might have to consider a serious wardrobe change.

220 As long as stuff keeps mysteriously blowing up, we wont need sanctions or war.

221 I see Perry doing way better than he was, but you see what you want.

Hopefully so, for his sake.

222 As long as stuff keeps mysteriously blowing up, we wont need sanctions or war. Posted by: Jean at December 12, 2011 05:27 PM (liPvR) Shhoosh!

223 What's Gingrich look like? heavy, white haired soft white guy?

No, he kind of looks like the Stay-Puffed Marshmallow Man to me.

224 I think our best bet at this point is to vote for Reagan. I know he's dead, but he'd still make a better POTUS than any of the potentials.

225 Erdogan chosen as Time's person of the year Turkish prime minister voted as most liked and most disliked public figure in parallel polls posted by magazine. Lionel Messi comes in second place They still print that rag?

226 Hopefully so, for his sake. ---- Have you been paying attention to the debates?

227 I don't understand why Perry is not more popular.  I realize that the only press he gets is for gaffes, but he is a far superior candidate.  The Legal Insurrection blog has pretty much said Romney is not electable, Newt is a loose cannon, and the others get no attention at all. 

228 What's Gingrich look like? heavy, white haired soft white guy? --- No, he kind of looks like the Stay-Puffed Marshmallow Man to me. Actually, ladies? Can you shed some light here? Apart from having political power and connections, is there anything remotely sexy about Newt? Three wives? Is he a big fan of ruhypnol?

229 Have you been paying attention to the debates?

Not many people have, the Moron Horde (Hoard?) notwithstanding.

230 I don't understand why Perry is not more popular.  I realize that the only press he gets is for gaffes.

I dislike him because of his anti-gay/anti-military-members-who-are gay pandering to the Christian right at the expense of other fine Americans ad.

Your mileage will vary, I'm sure.

231 Help us, Sarah Palin, Paul Ryan, Chris Christie, Bobby Jindal, Marco RubioGeneric Republican, you're our only hope!

232 What's Gingrich look like? heavy, white haired soft white guy?

He's a fat Bea Arthur.

233 One thing we should look at when considering Newt also is, the guy is really out of shape. Does he have the stamina to do this for another 11 months? I'm not saying he's going to tip over dead but think of how he's going to look come the beginning of October. He looks old for his age now, Romney's only 4 years younger and Perry I think is about 6 years younger. Compare those two guys to him.

234 I don't understand why Perry is not more popular. I realize that the only press he gets is for gaffes, but he is a far superior candidate. The Legal Insurrection blog has pretty much said Romney is not electable, Newt is a loose cannon, and the others get no attention at all. ---- It might be excusable for the general public but we're the ones paying attention more than others. We're the ones who are informed more than the general public right now. Yet here we are falling for the same bullshit lines of argument. I can't get over how stupid we're being.

235 I like a guy with brains-seriously.

236 What's Gingrich look like? heavy, white haired soft white guy? ------- He's a fat Bea Arthur. So who is our Betty White and Rue Clanahan?

237 I like what Huntsman projected.

"American manufacturing renaissance" plus rebuilding our national core infrastructure contrasts completely from Ritt Momney's '08 speech to Michigan unemployed voters, "If you worked in manufacturing, kiss those jobs good bye because they're NEVER coming back to America. Retrain for a "good" job,"  like working retail stocking shelves at Momney's job building Staples selling products made in China.

238

I think there is no question that Romney can be more relied up to be conservative than Newt can.  Forgetting his conservative accomplishments, Newt has a far more liberal history than Romney.  Especially in recent history.

The problem that Romney now needs to overcome is the way he repels the base of the party.  Krauthammer talked about Newt as being merely the "the current vessel for anti-Romney forces".  He is absolutely correct about this. 

Most people's new love for Newt is not based on what he actually says, but rather based on the fact that he is the only realistic challenger to Romney at this point.  How long ago was it that he called Paul Ryan's plan "right wing social engineering" and everyone hated him??

We have to play the hand we are dealt.  Romney sucks, but he is better than Gingrich.  People need to accept the contest as it is, and take a second look at Romney. 

239 I dislike him because of his anti-gay/anti-military-members-who-are gay pandering to the Christian right at the expense of other fine Americans ad. -------- That's what you got out of it? I doubt you watched the ad.

240

The sobering thing about 2012- if it is a "flip" election, the battleground will be on 'blue' turf. Some states are ready for it- Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Maine, states that were nominally republican, drifted left, turned blue, and have started to reverse.

If we are fighting in October to win Florida, Virginia, Ohio, and North Carolina we are going to lose.

If we are fighting in October over the upper midwest, we are kicking Obama's ass.

We need a candidate who will take the fight beyond the red/blue line of 2000/2004. That doesn't mean one who capitulates and flops his way in, just someone who has appeal to those voters itching to quietly vote R again for the first time in a generation.

 

241 223 and 225 ... me likey dat ...

242 162 >>>Well minimally I think even with a RINO, if we have to settle, we need someone who has the balls to do some risky things. Mittens is *not* that guy.

Oh yeah? Whose plan on Medicare is further to the right and closer to the Ryan plan?

This is again a "Newt TALKS all fiery and TALKS a good game" but then check the policy details and what is it?

It's moderate.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 05:16 PM (nj1bB)

All you have to know about the "Newt fights" meme is "wither on the vine." Newt said that and when the media attacked, Newt . . . ran away. Never defended it, never defended those who tried to defend it, never fought back, and never mentioned cutting any government program again.

Brave Sir Newt ran away. 

Also, Newt lost every fight he had with Clinton. I don't even know if he tried that hard. All talk, no action. While the media was in the tank for Clinton, they were no where near the level they are for the JEF.

243 142 Sadly, Mitt may be the best bet nevertheless. However, wait until Axelrod gets out the long knives. This is gonna be ugly, fellas. Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at December 12, 2011 05:06 PM (AZGON) You're very right about that. This is going to be one nasty election. I'm still pissed off about that racist rock shit they pulled on Perry. I know he sunk his own ship with flubs and such, but that was just idiotic.

244 George, He is not physically attractive, but i do enjoy his gift of thinking quickly on His feet, and his ability to argue his case.

245 That's what you got out of it? I doubt you watched the ad.

Posted by: Joffen at December 12, 2011 05:32 PM (zLeKL)

It was a bunch of stuff leading up to it, but that was the final straw, yes.

By the way, are you calling me a liar?

246  I like what Huntsman projected.

"American manufacturing renaissance" plus rebuilding our national core infrastructure contrasts completely from Ritt Momney's '08 speech to Michigan unemployed voters, "If you worked in manufacturing, kiss those jobs good bye because they're NEVER coming back to America. Retrain for a "good" job,"  like working retail stocking shelves at Momney's job building Staples selling products made in China.

Posted by: The Pirates Your Mother Fears at December 12, 2011 05:32 PM (lpWVn)

A belief that we can reengergize our manufacturing isn't a foolish one and should be advocated and pursued. One of the reasons I liked Huntsman over Romney, when Jon wasn't busy shitting in everybody's coffee.

247

But remember how we're supposed to be reassured that a conservative Congress will pull Romney to the right?  Why isn't that also true of Newt?

1.  I'm not reassured, and 2. Because Romney is cautious  and can be led while Gingrich thinks he's a World Historic Figure, and woe betide the Republican Congress who gets in the way of the One True Plan that just occurred to Gingrich five minutes ago.

I'm not trying to downplay the Romney suck here.  He's pretty squishy, no doubt, and the end results probably are gonna be pretty squishy too.  If you think the Gingrich flavor of suck is marginally less shitty, power to you, I just don't agree.

----

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream, Cultist for Jesus

Don't you have some vested interests to completely disclose here Cultist?

Oh, right, sorry.  Full disclosure: I am an albino monk assassin from the Jesuit Order of Joseph Smith.  If Romney wins, I will sacrifice your virgin daughters to Brigham Cthulhu, I will make it legal to put crucifixes in jars of piss, I will curse your sons to wet their jammies at night, I will doom AOSHQ morons to say the words 'magic underwear' in every third comment.

 

248

He's a fat Bea Arthur.

Ouch. I don't think I'll be able to get that picture out of my head. Ever.

249 We need more pizza!

250 I tell you what-Newt hit Mitt in his sweet spot when he mentioned Mitt losing to Teddy Kennedy. Mitt went all mean girl like the cheerleader that's been reminded she never had a date for the prom.

251 I find Romney extremely bland and uninspiring, but the odds of a Romney-implosion are much lower.

Well, I think he imploded on some level in that Bret Baier interview.  I think he's very untested, which is ironic given how much time he's been campaigning. 

252 _______________________

After two failed marriages, each of which he destroyed through his serial adultery, Newt Gingrich finally settled for a young, hot trophy wife a mere twenty-three years his junior. His is the very picture of biographical stability, reliability, and trustworthiness. His callous disregard of not one but two wives in favor of cheating with younger, hotter women will obviously be a HUGE selling point with moderate women voters in the general election. It's pure Gingrich-genius when you think about it.

There's no chance that Obama being happily married to the same woman with two adorable little girls in an intact family will contrast sharply with Newt's ugly past. There's no way this will siphon away large numbers of women voters who would have normally defaulted to an acceptable alternative. Nah, no chance.

It's a good thing that Newt's history of having a way with the ladies is going to give him such a big advantage with female voters because that will help offset the minor issue of Newt being the only Speaker of the House in history to have been found guilty (by his own party, no less) for Ethics Violations. Thankfully, no discernible theme of profound character-defect can be drawn by comparing serial philandering with violating ethics. Obama will never think of that! Besides, we all know that the media is going to cover for Newt on these issues.

And we all remember what a fool's errand Bill Clinton was on in the 90's when he tried to demonize Gingrich in the minds of the American public. (And just think, Clinton didn't even have a hundred million - let alone a billion - to spend on the effort.) Nope, we haven't seen that movie before.
In fact, if memory serves correctly, in a move of ingenious political Jujitsu, Newt wrapped the blame for the government shutdown around Bill Clinton's neck. History shows that Newt is VERY hard demonize with non-conservatives.
Besides it's not like Newt was so reviled within his own party that he was forced to resign the Speakership in disgrace. - And then go on to quit Congress altogether. Nope, never happened. And besides the American public wouldn't care a wit if it were pointed out to them these things did happen. And the Obama campaign will never think of it in the first place. So, it's all good. Ignore electability - it's not an issue. 

One thing's worth noting though. Based on the longevity of both of his previous failed marriages, Callista's got less than ten years before Newt trades her in for a newer model. (The Gingrich simply isn't down with the whole menopausal thing. - It just icks him out something awful.) So Callista would be smart to insist on an automatic five year extension in the "fidelity pledge" Newt is signing. That way she can at least claim she outlasted Newt's other two has-been wives.

253 This *is* one hell of a sub-headline:
Overestimating Romney Aside from getting votes, heÂ’s a great candidate.Ouch!

{link at the weekly standard}

254 Cac how could we compete in manufacturing with our bennies, when other countries can pay  ten bucks a day for more work?

255 Ahhh, Random, our voice for all of those pro-gay Republican primary voters in Iowa an SC

256 By the way, are you calling me a liar? ---- Either that or stupid. If you got that he was anti-gay and anti-gay-soldier from that ad then you either didn't see it or you are an idiot.

257 We have to play the hand we are dealt.  Romney sucks, but he is better than Gingrich.  People need to accept the contest as it is, and take a second look at Romney.

Posted by: dan-O at December 12, 2011 05:32 PM (sWycd)

Yep. But a lot of people are still obsessed with finding the True Conservative candidate who will make everything better. I've given up on that and now am just focusing on the candidate who's most likely to beat Obama.

258 Ugh, the site killed the formatting. Anyway, regarding Romney, the sub-headline is:

Aside from getting votes, he's a great candidate.

259 He's a fat Bea Arthur.

So who is our Betty White and Rue Clanahan?


Kay Baily Hutchison and Miss Lindsey Graham.

260 Gary Busey Endorses Newt Gingrich Ya just can't put a value on an endorsement like that?

261

You guys actually believe Newt is just as progressive as Mitt?

What has Mitt ever accomplished that was conservative in his entire life? What has he spent political capitol on that was conservative in his entire life?

 

Newt was the face of the consetrvative movement. He is the only leader to ever reduce the nanny state with welfare reform. I understand if you prefer Rick Perry to Newt. But to compare Newt with Mitt on the conservative spectrum is pure bull crap.

262 We have to play the hand we are dealt. Romney sucks, but he is better than Gingrich. People need to accept the contest as it is, and take a second look at Romney.

Posted by: dan-O at December 12, 2011 05:32 PM (sWycd)

Yep. ...

Posted by: Mætenloch at December 12, 2011 05:36 PM (pAlYe)

No. Gingrich is a better political candidate.

263 Thank you Cultist.

264 Actually, ladies? Can you shed some light here? Apart from having political power and connections, is there anything remotely sexy about Newt?

Three wives? Is he a big fan of ruhypnol?

Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at December 12, 2011

Um, Newt used his millions from lobbyists to set up a 500k line of credit at Tiffany's.

Never say the Newt isn't smart.

265 gah.

266 Gingrich is not physically attractive? GeorgeOrwell, are you really so Not Gay you had to call in a woman's opinion on this?

267

You guys actually believe Newt is just as progressive as Mitt?

What has Mitt ever accomplished that was conservative in his entire life? What has he spent political capitol on that was conservative in his entire life?

 

Newt was the face of the conservative movement. He is the only leader to ever reduce the nanny state with welfare reform. I understand if you prefer Rick Perry to Newt. But to compare Newt with Mitt on the conservative spectrum is pure bull crap.

Posted by: I can't believe it at December 12, 2011 05:38 PM

This + 10,000!

I'm out for supper. Enjoy yourselves.

268 This is starting remind me of a circular firing squad

269 We have to play the hand we are dealt. Romney sucks, but he is better than Gingrich. People need to accept the contest as it is, and take a second look at Romney. ---- No. Perry hasn't dropped out yet. I'm just gonna keep repeating myself. I'm kinda jaded. I keep asking people for specifics as to why they think Perry is a bad candidate and they end up telling me that he's the best candidate. So, how do we get from Perry being the best candidate to asking us to consider Newt or Mitt. How? Are we fucking stoopid?

270

No. We need a better philosophy. We need to actually put some thought into choosing our candidate.

I have.

Maybe it's my background in manufacturing, but I'm a detail-oriented guy. Slick appearances and vague platitudes from a candidate not only don't cut it, they turn me off pretty much instantly. There's only one way to do something and that's the Right Way (notice I didn't say My Way, that's important. My Way is the asshole's copout.): anything else is a waste of your time and mine. I like clarity and determination in a candidate. I want to know precisely what he or she intends to do and how they intend to do it. In short, I want details and I want accuracy and honesty in those details.

I've not seen anything close to a plan from the other candidates, but I have seen Perry quietly laying out his specific plans for his term and his ideas are closer than anyone else's to what I see needs to be done, like a Flat Tax coupled with a Balanced Budget Amendment.

I still can't understand why he isn't far more popular than he is. Perry's still my pick and will remain so until he drops out of the race. If he's still on the ballot in Florida, he'll have my vote.

271 Ace I think you need to accept that Newt is the best and smartest candidate we have running right now. Lincoln did not say he was going to abolish slavery at the Lincoln-Douglas debates either, but what did he do when he became president? You know full well what Newt is going to do to Iran once he becomes president. He is going to go after Iran, but he is right a series airstrikes, short of nuclear strikes, are not going to take out the Iranian nuclear problem.

272 I keep asking people for specifics as to why they think Perry is a bad candidate and they end up telling me that he's the best candidate.

What are you smoking? Perry's been a horrible candidate.

273 while i'm not well informed as everyone knows. I heard of Newts infidelity when i was a dem. i thought what shit! well cauase i'm a wife of course.
but i also knew He was the spine of the conservative movment,  at least that was what i heard from my other dems friends, and He had to be fought.
now i'm a conservative and He isn't a conservative?

274
I dunno.

Can we nominate a guy who would be your first choice for your office party's Santa?

275 >>>Well, I think he imploded on some level in that Bret Baier interview. I think he's very untested, which is ironic given how much time he's been campaigning. Fine, then Huntsman. But seriously if we are down to RINOs can we pick an attractive RINO with a nice stable family biography? The base is confusing Newt for a real conservative. This is what I was going on about last week. If you want a real conservative ,roll the dice and pick Perry. if you're settling for a RINO, be honest about what you're doing and don't convince yourself he's a Real Conservative. And then pick the best RINO.

276
Who's drinking word is China?

277

Newt was the face of the consetrvative movement.

Newt used his position as the 'face' to advocate, uh, a federal healthcare mandate, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, more entitlements, cap and trade . . .

Good golly, his new big initiatives are Brain Science (aka, a new federally-funded War on Alzheimers) and defending Medicare against "right-wing socialists" like Paul Ryan.

 

If that's conservatism, stop the train, I want off.

 

278 so Perry really can't recover?
sending more money? helpign pay for advertisments?

279 Posted by: Random at December 12, 2011 05:42 PM (YiE0S) ---- Yeah, I suppose you're right you fucking moby. He's anti-gay and anti-gay soldier. He's anti-American too, huh? Idiot.

280

Yep. But a lot of people are still obsessed with finding the True Conservative candidate who will make everything better. I've given up on that and now am just focusing on the candidate who's most likely to beat Obama.

 

The only way I buy this, Maet, is because of the assumption that Newt will rally Obama's base. Other than that fear, I think you are reading this wrong. 

Mitt can't differentiate himself from Obama's worst policies. 

He can't motivate our voters.

He's weaker in the debates.

...and his hair, which is his best and most presidential trait, is looking as tired as Obama.

 

281 now i'm a conservative and He isn't a conservative? Posted by: willow at December 12, 2011 05:43 PM (h+qn Crazy world eh?

282

If I gave a shit ... this would be depressing ...

283 He is going to go after Iran, but he is right a series airstrikes, short of nuclear strikes, are not going to take out the Iranian nuclear problem.

If a series of conventional airstrikes falls short, you'll have a full blown war on your hands.
Which the US will have "started".
If we missed (as in did not detect) a nuclear facility, we might have a full blown nuclear war shortly after a series of strikes.

284 I understand that it's news when a politician tells the truth, especially one some in "his base" may not want to hear, but ... that's all.

285 Emperor, and Bain will be brought up, and masscare.

286 The base is confusing Newt for a real conservative. This is what I was going on about last week.

What's interesting is the Newt you observe now doesn't seem to be the one who could write the book "To Renew America".

It's a good read and worth the time.

287 I honestly don't see the point in pinning labels on anyone: Rhino, Conservative, Tea partier, fat, and yada yada yada. All it does in help obama. Support your own candidate on the issues and leave it at that.

288

Lincoln did not say he was going to abolish slavery at the Lincoln-Douglas debates either, but what did he do when he became president? You know full well what Newt is going to do to Iran once he becomes president. He is going to go after Iran, but he is right a series airstrikes, short of nuclear strikes, are not going to take out the Iranian nuclear problem.

 

The last president to be compared to Lincoln and whose supporters "knew" what he was going to do despite what he said?

Obama.

289 Three wives? Is he a big fan of ruhypnol?

Funny, given Newt's many wives v. Momney's one. And it wasn't ever as if Newt was monogamous in any of his many relations. Evidently, those who experienced growing up in polygamy learned to regret it, particularly when required to forfeit the practice by federal law being enforced with $2K fines and years in the penitentiary. Meanwhile, those who ridicule plural wivery hypocritically do the sex without bothering with any show of propriety, as foolish and vain as that ends up proving to be under scrutiny.

Speaking of candidate hypocrisy, Michelle Bachmann touted the founding father's "full measure" of a person's character as the defining feature of the right sort of president. Yet Bachmann repeatedly asserted dishonestly that she is the ONLY candidate who is a consistent constitutional conservative. At least she lies consistently, consistency being its own virtue. And that argument plays the apology for flip flopping consistently, or fucking as many and as frequently as possible consistently under the pretense of Clinton's rationalization, "Because I could."

290 Posted by: willow at December 12, 2011 05:44 PM (h+qn -------- He's recovering right now! Hasn't anyone been paying attention?

291 cajun, i swear i think someone slipped me a hit of acid.

292 Newt pushes conservative stuff when it's popular and there's a political tactical advantage in it. Welfare reform was POPULAR. Had been for a decade and a half. He did push cutting the size of government and did shut down the government but also caved on that. I can't say I really super-blame him, but on something unpopular with the public, he caved on principle. I just do not see the upgrade in conservatism here that justifies running a weak candidate with more baggage than Marlene Dietrich on a three week African safari.

293 I'm in PA and I will swear on a stack of (King James) Bibles that a Mormon can not win this state. Newt can't win it either.

Yeah, I know. Mittens can't win. Newt can't win. Four more years of SCOAMF are preferable to most Americans over a guy whose religion preaches crazy ideas like families should love one another and stick together (what kind of crazy religion preaches that? Sheesh!), or a guy who cheated on his wife 30 yesrs ago and occasionally spouts dumb ideas. (A guy who throws billions of dollars after dumb ideas? Why, that's just fine!)

So, the election's over, the SCOAMF will win, why do we even care?

294 279 >>>Well, I think he imploded on some level in that Bret Baier interview. I think he's very untested, which is ironic given how much time he's been campaigning.

Fine, then Huntsman.

But seriously if we are down to RINOs can we pick an attractive RINO with a nice stable family biography?

The base is confusing Newt for a real conservative. This is what I was going on about last week.

If you want a real conservative ,roll the dice and pick Perry.

if you're settling for a RINO, be honest about what you're doing and don't convince yourself he's a Real Conservative. And then pick the best RINO.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 05:43 PM (nj1bB)

Well ace, since Y-not made that comment I can safely assure you that she does want to role the dice on Perry.

295 If Newt wins Iowa he gains momentum from that and might take Mitt down in New Hampshire. Game over.

296 Joffen,
A lot of us are with Perry for the duration of the primary. 

297 Newt Sucks!!

298 Perry is a gaffe-prone candidate who reminds a Bush-weary nation of W. On paper, yeah he sounds good, but it failed to materialize. Just like Fred Thompson. He's done at this point, and based on his candidacy so far, that's for the best, he would have been terrible in the general. He never wowed me as governor either, so I do confess I never understood the hype.

299 i thought he helped get the welfare reform back in clinton days? i know many shrieking about that?

300 I'd prefer the Xavier vs. Cincinnati debate format, but that's just me.

301
What's interesting is the Newt you observe now doesn't seem to be the one who could write the book "To Renew America".

Remember what they used to say about Clinton-- that he would wonk the issues to death, dithering on both sides?  Gingrich sounds likehe does much the same thing.

302

Emperor, and Bain will be brought up, and masscare.

Masscare, not really.  That will just be minor defensive stuff.  But the MSM can't actually *attack* it.

But Bain, absolutely.  Thing is, that's an area where you can actually defend it in conservative terms.  In fact, if Romney were politically smart (yes, I know), he'd connect it to the TBTF motif, and explain that in a real free market, corporations and people have to be allowed to fail.

Serial adultery and crony capitalism, not so much.  At least, the excuses and justifications for them don't actually advance conservative ideas.

303 Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at December 12, 2011 05:27 PM (eHIJJ)
Where's the down jacket spammer when you need a change of wardrobe?

304 And Newt is brave-when he spearheaded the Impeachment trial we were in the cloak closet-my gawd I have to stop typing- that was so exciting-like riding the Hindenburg-btw Newt's a historian, did you know that?

305 I'd prefer the Xavier vs. Cincinnati debate format, but that's just me. Posted by: Lincolntf at December 12, 2011 05:48 PM (Qjh0I) Down goes obama, Down goes obama, down goes obama

306 "Yeah, I suppose you're right you fucking moby."

So, you've called me a liar and a moby for opposing Perry?

Fuck you, Joffen.

I supported him when he announced, but he proved to be a crappy candidate. He's pandering to Iowans by being bigoted against gays, and also by expressing his disapproval of a certain segment of the population of a supposedly free country serving the nation in wartime.

He's a religious fundamentalist's religious fundamentalist, and I'm not down with that. Not when it's that extreme and leads him to be that politically stupid.

This, and he's campaigned horribly.

307 If Newt gets the nod a lot of people in the NE will sit out the election. If Mutt gets it a lot of people in the South will sit it out.

This is complete bullshit. How many Northeastern Democrats sat out the 2004 election because John F'n Kerry is a serial gigolo?

308

I just do not see the upgrade in conservatism here that justifies running a weak candidate with more baggage than Marlene Dietrich on a three week African safari.

 

Newt can sell anything.  That's your upside.

Mittens can't even sell himself.

309 305, honestly Newt and Clinton probably have more in common than I'd like to think about. It's like they just picked sides to play a game of checkers.

Of course that kind of thinking makes me worry I'm slipping off into Glenn Beck land.

310 Frankly, I'd love to give Callista a pearl necklace.

311
Newt looks oafish.

312

BREAKING NEWT GINGRICH NEWS

Well that ends it right there... Newt will soon officially be the Republican presidential candidate for 2012!

313 Perry is a gaffe-prone candidate who reminds a Bush-weary nation of W. As opposed to the SCOAMF, right? People are Obama-weary. He's done at this point, and based on his candidacy so far, that's for the best, he would have been terrible in the general. Uh, yeah. Because Mitt and Newt would be so much better. Gimme a break.

314

Newt can sell anything.  That's your upside.

Look at what he sells.  I don't want a used car salesman getting us to sign up for a national lemon.

315 ______________________

Does anyone else here remember how absolutely futile Bill Clinton's efforts were in demonizing Newt Gingrich in the minds of the American public?

316 "Maybe if I hate Newt enough my guy _____ will take the nomination and beat the anti-Christ" Good luck you all.

317 If you want a real conservative ,roll the dice and pick Perry.

I am rolling the dice and writing the checks. 

if you're settling for a RINO, be honest about what you're doing and don't convince yourself he's a Real Conservative. And then pick the best RINO.

I'm sure you're not following my particular comments, but in my case I prefer Newt not because he's particularly conservative across the board, but because I think he has the mix of temperament and rhetoric (that rallies the base) that would lead to a couple of big conservative - or at least anti-Democrat - victories.  The rest would be squish, big government establishment GOP stuff.

But I simply see no evidence that Mitt would take the fight to the Democrats and no evidence that he would win if he did. 

So of the two RINOs, I'd go for Newt. 


Many moons ago when Huntsman announced everyone, including here, dismissed his candidacy.  No one (of the bloggers) really evaluated him.  I did go through his record and spoke with a lot of my new neighbors here in Utah.  Based on that, I decided Huntsman is not for me. 

318

I can't believe ace & co. are now trying to shove Romney down our throats.

And don't give me the "I support Perry" bullshit. Anyone with a brain cell knows he isn't going to win anything.

You think Gingrich is unelectable and that his lengthy conservatice record in the House is exactly the same as Romney trashing Reagan and actually implementing a mandate (as opposed to mear advocacy)? It makes no fucking sense but fine.

I'd honestly rather lose with Gingrich than win with Romney. Let's face it, SCOAMF has a hostile Congress and is going to be able to do relatively little damage in his second term. He's crippled. Better just try again in 2016.

 

319 297 Newt pushes conservative stuff when it's popular and there's a political tactical advantage in it. Welfare reform was POPULAR. Had been for a decade and a half.

He did push cutting the size of government and did shut down the government but also caved on that. I can't say I really super-blame him, but on something unpopular with the public, he caved on principle.

I just do not see the upgrade in conservatism here that justifies running a weak candidate with more baggage than Marlene Dietrich on a three week African safari.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 05:46 PM (nj1bB)

So what you're saying is that Newt has pushed for some politically popular conservative ideals.

And meanwhile, Mitt is still defending his politically "popular" liberal shit sandwich.

320
And how many more Anne Mannings are gonna crawl outta the woodwork saying that they gave beejays to Noot?

321 I don't want a used car salesman getting us to sign up for a national lemon. Posted by: Emperor of Icecream, Cultist for Jesus at December 12, 2011 05:52 PM (epBek) To late

322 Newt can sell anything. That's your upside. Try as he might, he couldn't sell Pelosi.

323 279 It's wishful thinking ace.Everyone who counted on Perry was let down.Cain?Ditto.Some guy (or gal)not yet uin the race?Ditto.So Newt is the lsast anti Romney.Just months ago everyone was laughing at him(remember the heckler everyone agreed with?"stop embarrassing yourself Newt.").Now the fantasy kicks in(fueled by his glib debate performances).Newt is a dog and always has been.Romney sucks but he can be controlled.Obama has to go.(Yep,I said it again)

324 How many Northeastern Democrats sat out the 2004 election because John F'n Kerry is a serial gigolo?

Posted by: Arms Merchant at December 12, 2011 05:50 PM (kPT11)

The difference is that that sort of behavior is a qualifier for NE Dems, but not so much for (even) RINOs.

325 124

The moderates are a myth. Like the Yeti or its NorthAmerican cousin, the Sasquatch.

Posted by: Rabi in Elaine's building at December 12, 2011 05:09 PM (G649a)

Or job-creating millionaires.

326
Bob Beckel just made fun of gays, I have no doubt he will get a way with it, unlike a conservative.

327 He did push cutting the size of government and did shut down the government but also caved on that.

Cutting government growth. Let's not pretend that even in 1994 anyone was proposing to cut the size and cost of government. And even with a vibrant economy that allowed revenues to increase to give the illusion of a surplus the great GOP takeover of 1994 punted on any entitlement reform.

328 Mitt Romney's electibility is as real as the Palestinian People.

329 The only way I buy this, Maet, is because of the assumption that Newt will rally Obama's base. Other than that fear, I think you are reading this wrong.

Mitt can't differentiate himself from Obama's worst policies.

He can't motivate our voters.

He's weaker in the debates.

...and his hair, which is his best and most presidential trait, is looking as tired as Obama.

Posted by: garrett at December 12, 2011 05:44 PM (G649a)

I'm not so concerned with our voters since I think they despise Obama enough to come out no matter what. It's the 'independents' who actually swing elections that I'm thinking of.

Put yourself in their shoes and then consider which GOP candidate - Romney or Gingrich - is an easier sell. Remember - they actually went for Obama in 2008 so the fact that Romney's policies in MA resemble some of Obama's is actually reassuring since it's a sign that he's not a radical 'right-wing nut'. Of course we're unhappy about this but then we're not the swing voters who decide the race.

330

Chris,

you make a very effective argument for Gingrich's Brain Science platform.  Hopefully, if Newt can get the feds to turn on the spigot of federal funding in the War on Brain Decay, you will be one of the last victims of dementia.

331 depressing thread

332

I can't believe ace & co. are now trying to shove Romney down our throats.

hahahaha, he's on to you, Ace!

I'd honestly rather lose with Gingrich than win with Romney.

oh dear

333

Newt can sell anything.  That's your upside.

Mittens can't even sell himself.

---

Yep.

I kind of use my dad as the benchmark for Rush Limbaugh listening retired conservative Republicans.  The last I heard, he was leaning Newt... and that was before Newt was considered a viable candidate by the pundits.  (The same ones that tell us Perry is not a viable candidate and that Mitt is going to be the nominee.) 

334

I can't believe ace & co. are now trying to shove (SOMEONE OTHER THAN MY PREFERRED CANDIDATE) down our throats.

FIFY.

The above post will run on a continuous loop for the duration of primary season.

 

335

Look at what he sells.  I don't want a used car salesman getting us to sign up for a national lemon.

 

 

You want the squishy votes added to the base, don't you?

Mitt can't sell himself to his own party.  That's all you need to know. 

He's a failed candidate³ who can't get it up.

336 I'm used to arguing with liberals, which is why I never tire of it with the idiots that come here on a regular basis.

337 O/T - Every. Single. Time. I go to Yahoo home page, there is Michelle's arm-pit picture (the jumping-jacks record breaker). This, after Yahoo runs two days of "Perry Mispronounces Sotomeyer's name" in their head-lines. Not once did they say that Obama tripped over and forgot Ruth Baden-Ginsburg's name and had to look down at his note-cards.

338 316 BREAKING NEWT GINGRICH NEWS Well that ends it right there... Newt will soon officially be the Republican presidential candidate for 2012! Posted by: dan-O at December 12, 2011 05:52 PM (sWycd) This pleases the raging-alky in me.

339 Newt is far more interested in creating sound clips that make him seem really smart than actually thinking his positions through.  He won't care or remember whether he is contradicting a prior statement.  He has gone back and forth on the Ryan plan 3-4 times now.  He sucks.  Learn that now.

340 Weird bag of chocolate animal crackers on baker's rack in kitchen. delicious. Must inquire as to origins...

341 Anyone who thinks we eliminated welfare or reformed it can still buy that time share condo from me. All they did was change the name of the programs. We are spending more on welfare now than we ever did before it was "reformed".

And anyone who want the most electable candidate better find someone other than Newt or Mutt.

342
And how many more Anne Mannings are gonna crawl outta the woodwork saying that they gave beejays to Noot?

Shit, if that fat bastard is such a smooth talker that he has women lined up for beejers, he can probably sweet talk Ahmedinejahd to giving up his nukes while letting Newt soomize him.

343 I still support Perry as the best choice.There is still a long time to go.There's a slim chance we wont have to choose between Mitt and Newt.

344 The Â’96 Clinton/Gingrich reform said: donÂ’t count on welfare to be there for you. It is time-limited. YouÂ’ll have to work. If there are no jobs where you live, better move somewhere else. Result: Blacks moved to where the jobs are, which is the red states and the suburbs.
Daily caller .com /The kaus files  2011/3/28

345 Another drawback with Romney is that his father was born in Mexico, so the whole birther thing gets brought up again.

Just pick Perry or Buddy Roemer.  They are not perfect, but they come closer than the others.  Perry/West or Perry/Bolton.

346 steevy, from your lips...

347
btw, hahaha @ MNF

screw you ESPN, you stupid Obama-lovin Hank Williams Jr-hatin dopes, you

have fun with your lousy Rams at Seahawks tonight

348 345 Agreed.We're boned.

349 And anyone who want the most electable candidate better find someone other than Newt or Mutt.

That's what Rush said today.
He also pointed out those people aren't running.

350 Can anyone honestly say that Mittens will be able to rally the conservative base and independents, and not just win but help take the Senate as well?

Assuming Perry is done, and really, that's not much of an assumption, Newt seems like the only candidate left that has a chance create a wave. And a sweep is the only thing that's going to change things in this country.

If the government is going to be reformed by choice rather than by events, then this current move rightward is going to have to continue. If it gets stalled by a defeat at the Executive or Senate level then events will take over.

351 hell romney?

352 "I can't believe ace & co. are now trying to shove Romney down our throats." I can't believe someone else isn't on the same bandwagon I jumped on ten minutes ago!!!!

353 He also pointed out those people aren't running. Posted by: jwb7605 at December 12, 2011 06:01 PM (Qxe/p) they run every night in my dreams

354 have fun with your lousy Rams at Seahawks tonight

Now that I'm considering taking up drinking, that might be a fun game.
Of course, the only way to enjoy that game would be drunk.

355 I can't believe someone else isn't as infected with the emotion and zealotry as a recent convert as I am! Whoo-hoo!

356

ace,

I'm a little lost when you say you prefer Romney due to his "constancy".

I'm also not sure how Romney's Liquidator-in-Chief background would sell with an American public that has either already lost jobs or are in fear of losing their jobs.

Plus, there's this.

357 29 >>> Gingrich actually wrote a letter pledging to not cheat on his wife. How does this differ from his marriage vows? Posted by: dan-O at December 12, 2011 04:51 PM (sWycd) It's in writing.

358
the constructive criticism of my favorite candidate -- it burnnsss!

359

Put yourself in their shoes and then consider which GOP candidate - Romney or Gingrich - is an easier sell.

 

The Newt sells itself. 

I have several NE indy friends (who deeply regret their Obama votes) who LOVE Newt for his willingness to call out the Left.

Anecdotal, yes, but it is clear to me that the Palestine rant won Newt a LOT of Jewish Soccer Dads. 

Admittedly, they all liked the thought of Romney...but they are now loving them some Newt. 

I

360 I can't believe someone else isn't on the same bandwagon I jumped on ten minutes ago!!!! Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 06:01 PM (nj1bB) That's because real bandwagons are usually moving up and forward with loud music and excitement and not laying there like 3 week old lox

361 Oh man. I just realized I put the fate of the nation into Newt's hands.


We're boned.

362 O/T, from Texas:

Gov. Rick Perry today issued the following statement regarding the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services approving the Texas Healthcare Transformation and Quality Improvement Program Waiver, and not fully approving the state's Women's Health Waiver, which was allowed under the previous administration:

"Once again, Washington takes one step forward for state flexibility and two steps back. By approving Texas' Healthcare Transformation and Quality Improvement Program Waiver, state and local officials can provide more efficient and effective care, and implement locally-tailored health solutions. However, I am concerned the Obama Administration is playing politics by holding women's health care hostage because of Texas' pro-life policies, sacrificing the health of millions of Texas women in the name of their pro-abortion agenda.

"We are committed to protecting life in Texas, and state law prohibits giving state dollars to abortion providers and affiliates - a fact the Obama Administration ignores. I strongly urge the administration to do the right thing and grant this waiver, so Texas women can access critical preventative health services, including breast and cervical cancer screenings, rather than making them pay the price for its pro-abortion agenda."

363 yeah, i don't think ace is thrilled, he's being pragmatic.
hopefully  perry will recover . or whatever i guess.

364 Come on ace you knew there were going to be people accusing you of being all in for Romney at this point in the election.  We can probably go back to 2007 and find people accusing you of being all in for McCain at this time too.

365 I can't believe someone else isn't as infected with the emotion and zealotry as a recent convert as I am! Whoo-hoo!

Well, at least you're no longer trying to push Bachmann and Cain on us.
I was beginning to wonder about your patriotism.
You still have time to jump on Santorum's wagon.  It's moving slow enough.

366 I'm also not sure how Romney's Liquidator-in-Chief background would sell with an American public that has either already lost jobs or are in fear of losing their jobs.

The correct way to address that is to point out that, by doing things to become profitable again, and to fix the financial problems at whatever-that-company-was, Mitt Romney was saving jobs.  Yes, many got "outsourced" (as if that's some evil thing), but that the option was outsource some jobs and save others, or have the whole company collapse.  And which do you think was a better option?

Now, after having come up with a logical way to defend Mitt Romney from an attack, I need a shower.

367 like 3 week old lox

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 12, 2011 06:03 PM (eCnLg)

toxic!

368 Please,please,please,Gov Perry,don't propose any more constitutional amendments.

369 @Emperor of Icecream, Cultist for Jesus I hate to tell you this...but...don't want to break your heart...that is how you win in America. That is how every president has won in American history. The great military strategist B.H. Liddell Harts stated: "History bears witness to the vital part that ‘prophets’ have played in human progress – which is evidence of the ultimate practical value of expressing unreservedly the truth as one see it. Yet it also becomes clear that the acceptance and spreading of their vision has always depended on another class of men – ‘leaders’ who had to be philosophical strategists, striking a compromise between truth and men’s receptivity to it. Their effect has often depended as much on their own limitations in perceiving the truth as on their practical wisdom in proclaiming it. The prophets must be stoned; that is their lot, and the test of their self-fulfillment. But a leader who is stoned may merely prove that he has failed in his function through a deficiency of wisdom, or through confusing his function with that of a prophet. Time alone can tell whether the effect of such a sacrifice redeems the apparent failure as a leader that does honour to him as a man. At the least, he avoids the more common fault of leaders – that of sacrificing the truth to expediency without ultimate advantage to the cause. For whoever habitually suppresses the truth in the interests of tact will produce a deformity from the womb of his thought." See there is a difference between "prophets" and "leaders"...we are trying to elect leaders, not prophets. I hope some hardcore conservatives and libertarians understand that when they talk about electing Paul or Bachmann, etc. BTW Reagan was a leader who watched prophet Goldwater go down in flames, and figured out a way to make the message more palatable to the American people, helped in large part by his own political enemies. This is why I support Newt. I know his faults, they are many, but I have concluded he is the best instrument to achieve the best results we can.

370 I just do not see the upgrade in conservatism here that justifies running a weak candidate with more baggage than Marlene Dietrich on a three week African safari...

Why doesn't Newt get conservatives saying, "We Vant to be ALONE!"

371 wait, ace is a Mittster now?

372 OCBill, that "Liquidator in Chief" garbage is the same shit they'll pull on any eeevil Republican. If we can't even run on basic honest capitalism, then what's the fucking point of all the high falutin' rhetoric?

373 and not laying there like 3 week old lox Posted by: nevergiveup at December 12, 2011 06:03 PM ***** You get what a miracle worker I am-now....

374 So Random doesnt like Perry and he thinks some unknown gay paragon in the military is upset about a vague ad; remind me to hit Perry's tip jar later in the ONT.

375

I got this chart in an e-mail today and had to go out and find it on the web.

This is what we are to all of them.  

376 >>>We can probably go back to 2007 and find people accusing you of being all in for McCain at this time too. No at this time I was probably still weakly for Giuliani and talking up Fred! It was later in 2007 I went... all-in for Romney. In order to NOT have McCain. It's a weird thing, people like to accuse anyone they don't like of having supported McCain. I supported everyone BUT him (except huckabee and Paul). Personally I blame a lot of the people who actually blame OTHERS for supporting McCain, of having secretly supported McCain. because, abortion.

377 After the election if Ace announces he's a liberal, I'll feel sucked in and stupid like I felt at LGF.

Ace had already been banned, though.
I started checking this place out because Charles said I couldn't.

378

 3 week old lox

 

okay.  now I'm moist.

379 You either hate Newt Gingrich and vow to destroy him or you are a racist.  It's that simple. 

380

Second look at Harold Stassen?

381 384 You either hate Newt Gingrich and vow to destroy him or you are a racist.  It's that simple. 

382 Well, it's correct Romney was part of the "creative destruction" that is capitalism at its best. And that he got rich doing it is part of the American Way. Great, I'm down with that. And I'm sure the voters in PA will be down with it, too.  Of course, that doesn't exactly fit in with the "constancy" theme since Romney was pledging major bailout money for the Big Three back in 2008.

383 The Liquidater in Chief attack is garbage in the abstract, but most people don't vote on pure logic. Actually, no one votes on pure logic.

So it's one thing to run on the idea that consolidating corporate assets and making companies profitable by making labor more productive is one thing. But running the guy that does the firing is another. It's dirty work and people personalize that sort of thing.

It wouldn't be so bad if economic times were good and there weren't millions of people desperate for work who were recently laid off by a figure like Romney.

384 386 384 You either hate Newt Gingrich and vow to destroy him or you are a racist.  It's that simple.

Straight up.

385 No new Exes. I like that.

386

Thhadeus McCotter hasn't been the flavor of the month yet.

 

Go McCotter!! McCotter..He'll grow on you. McCotter 2012!!

387 Something went a little funky on my sockpuppting there.

388

There's this meme being spread by conservative "leadership" that Newt is just as bad as Romney policy-wise so we should pick Romney based on temperament.

But its a bullshit meme. How can you possibly argue that the most famous conservative Speaker of the House in living memory is just as bad as a guy who has spent his pre-2006 years as a liberal Republican?

Oh, and if Romney is so great at PR why were his approval ratings so dismal that he refused to run for re-election? Why did he get his ass handed to him by Huckabee and McCain? 

389 Newt Gingrich is a corporate sellout.  Now buy my sponsor's gold you racist fucks.

390 Regarding bombing iran. He is being political. He is going to bomb the shit out of them. They exist for this sole purpose.

391 But, in Iraq, apparently sanctions did work, to our everlasting surprise.
Posted by: Random

Yeah, the Oil-for-Food graft machine went pretty well for a bunch of corrupt UN bureaucrats, didn't it. $10 billion for Sadaam and cronies, and 9 years of deprivation for Iraq's citizens.

Bang up job, that one.

392

But its a bullshit meme. How can you possibly argue that the most famous conservative Speaker of the House in living memory is just as bad as a guy who has spent his pre-2006 years as a liberal Republican?

Posted by: Chris at December 12, 2011 06:13 PM (FMjOm)

 

If you have to ask, clearly you're a racist.

393 This is why I support Newt. I know his faults, they are many, but I have concluded he is the best instrument to achieve the best results we can.

He'd have to win the general election first, and thus far I see little reason to believe he would.  I'd certainly vote for him, but the election won't be won or lost because of voters like you and me.

How many swing voters are eager to see Newt Gingrich on TV for a four year term?  How many of them are willing to take a chance on someone as erratic as Newt instead of the known fuckupery that is Obama?

394 Second look at Superman?

395
Random jumps in the barrel so often that I'm convinced he enjoys it.

396 Well, if I'm allowed to dream, no clear winner from the primaries. Conservatives swamp the Republican Convention and draft Allen West...

397 GeorgeOrwell, are you really so Not Gay you had to call in a woman's opinion on this? The feminine mind is inscrutable. Plus, I can be astonishingly clueless.

398

And I'm being consistent. I was against Romney in 2007 as well. I didn't buy the horseshit from "leadership" that he was more conservative than McCain.

 

399 ...it's a “fantasy” to think military attack could take out Iran nuke program...

The military is very effective for such things. In fact, it will your last choice if you don't want Iran to have nukes (last because no other choices will be needed).

400 Well, if I'm allowed to dream, no clear winner from the primaries. Conservatives swamp the Republican Convention and draft Allen West... Posted by: The Robot Devil at December 12, 2011 06:18 PM (DNTer) That's my Monday, Wensd., Friday, and Sunday Dream. Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday I dream my bet came in on that Mayan thing

401 Is Ace all-in for Mittens now?

402 Newt > Romeny (1) Newt is smarter than Romney. (2) Newt is a better debater than Romney which will matter against Obama. (3) Newt is not tied to Wall Street as Romney is which takes away the best weapon the dems have against the GOP. (4) Newt actually got conservative legislation passed when he was called upon to lead and with a democrat president to boot. Romany has not. Therefore he has proven himself to be a superior leader to Romney.

403 I know:  Let's draft Jason Sehorn for President.  Because then we'd at least get Angie Harmon as First Lady (yes, they are both Conservative, relatively speaking).

Or we could just skip to the chase, and draft Angie Harmon for President.

404

I got this chart in an e-mail today and had to go out and find it on the web.

This is what we are to all of them.  

Heh, a flow chart. That was great. True, too.

405 381 >>>We can probably go back to 2007 and find people accusing you of being all in for McCain at this time too.

No at this time I was probably still weakly for Giuliani and talking up Fred!

It was later in 2007 I went... all-in for Romney.

In order to NOT have McCain.

It's a weird thing, people like to accuse anyone they don't like of having supported McCain. I supported everyone BUT him (except huckabee and Paul).

Personally I blame a lot of the people who actually blame OTHERS for supporting McCain, of having secretly supported McCain. because, abortion.

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 06:09 PM (nj1bB)

That's my point ace.  It doesn't matter who you say you support.  There are those out there who think that because you aren't supporting their guy you are supporting the one they absolutely don't want.  I know you weren't on board with McCain until he was the last man standing.  But accusations will still fly.  No matter how much you say you are for Perry and want him, you are going to get accused of wanting Romney.

406 I TOLD you guys Newt switches positions like a weather vane!!!

Newt on Fox right after Katrina:  What President Bush needs to do is establish a Mar$hall Plan for the Gulf Coast. (Spend billions in federal money, for those who don't know what the Marshall Plan was.)

Newt 9 months later on Fox, after all the theft, waste, and fraud in the Katrina money was being revealed:  This is what happens when the federal government gets involved in something like this.  It should have been handled through the private sector.

The only reason he changed positions was to get on the side of what was popular at that moment.

He will be a bad nominee.  Leaving aside the personal stuff,  there is just too much shifting on positions to suit me.  Perry may not be able to talk as well, but he doesn't change his position every few months, and he is very plain about what he intends to do.

Plus he shot a coyote to save his dog. Ya gotta love a guy like that.

407
Bigfoot dressed as a circus clown would have a better chance at beating President Obama than Newt Gingrich.

408 Hmmm, Bob Dole?  Gonna have to think about that one.

409 Newt's favorite president? FDR. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgdzZJePL04 Says it 20 times.

410 (3) Newt is not tied to Wall Street as Romney is which takes away the best weapon the dems have against the GOP.

You might want to look into that a bit more...

411 That's Ruth Bader-Gingsburg......see, I did it, too. My boyfriend, who was all in for Obama and now despises him, shocked me yesterday by stating that Newt was the one. I attempted to point out his pit-falls. I also did this last week with my son. We are in such deep ca-ca, trying our damnest to hitch our wagons onto anyone near decent, intelligent, pro-business, pro-America, pro-freedom. Where are these people? You'd think it would be a walk in the park but instead we're picking through the dregs just to find splinters of a whole and put that together.

412

Yeah, it's going to be all about how weird mormonism is, and they'll also play the "OMG he's a Wall Street insider!" card. It could be highly effective too, because lots of people are (a) weirded out by mormons and (b) susceptible to class warfare. Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half

Yep.  It will be fugly beyond belief.

413 (last because no other choices will be needed).

What is it they say?  "If violence isn't your last resort, you didn't resort to enough of it."

Is Ace all-in for Mittens now?

I hope not.  I hope he's still holding out for Perry.  But, given the choice, I can see why some would pick Mittens over Newt, even if I would choose the other side of that.  It just kind of high-lights why Conservatives hate this primary season.

414 Bigfoot dressed as a circus clown would have a better chance at beating President Obama than Newt Gingrich. Is he available? Because our choices couldn't be any less doubtful.

415 ew He did?

416 (1) Newt is smarter than Romney. smart enough to support a mandate (2) Newt is a better debater than Romney which will matter against Obama. we'll see about that one (3) Newt is not tied to Wall Street as Romney is which takes away the best weapon the dems have against the GOP. Horseapples. (4) Newt actually got conservative legislation passed when he was called upon to lead and with a democrat president to boot. Romany has not. Therefore he has proven himself to be a superior leader to Romney. Yeah, that's true.

417 I remember my jubilation a few short months ago when Perry got in.  I was so stoked thinking we were saved and actually had a candidate I could enthusiastically support.  Oh, how I wish he was doing better.  I wish he were a stronger candidate in the media assault/debate forum because that's where he nosedived.  Newt & Rombley would be eating his dust if he were what I envisioned he would be when he jumped in.

Still holding out hope.

418 Anyone who does not vote for Rick Perry hates puppies. 

419 (4) Newt actually got conservative legislation passed when he was called upon to lead and with a democrat president to boot. Romany has not. Therefore he has proven himself to be a superior leader to Romney.

Posted by: WVU

For all his foibles, that is a real accomplishment.  Sure beats Romneycare.

420 I moved from Canada for this?

421 Obama 2012 : No Mittens, No Gloves

422 Is Ace all-in for Mittens now?

Posted by: Joffen at December 12, 2011 06:20 PM (zLeKL)

that's what I read on the interwebs

423 424 Anyone who does not vote for Rick Perry hates puppies. 

Posted by: Y-not, Vote for Rick or the puppy gets it at December 12, 2011 06:24 PM (5H6zj)

hahaha

424
I wonder if Herman Cain went home yet to face the wife.

425 Hollowpoint Most poll have Newt within striking distance right now. Most I have seen are under 10 % pts. Add to that Obama is under 50% in all those polls which means lots of undecideds. Newt has a very powerful argument to make to those people, which is: "Do remember how you were doing and economy was doing when I was running the House in the mid 1990s?"

426 For all his foibles, that is a real accomplishment.  Sure beats Romneycare.

Indeed, you can argue that "Welfare wasn't really reformed," and that "the budget was balanced by gimmicks."  What you can't argue is that Democrats didn't hate both: which, alone, speaks volumes about how effective Newt was.

427

Our Muslim allies still execute "witches".

A Saudi woman was beheaded on Monday following a conviction of practicing sorcery, which the ultra-conservative kingdom bans, Saudi ArabiaÂ’s interior ministry said.

"Conservative"?????  Which idiot at Fox wrote this one.

428 Does anybody have the number for the Betty Ford Clinic?  I was wondering what Diane Sawyer's thoughts were about all this.

429 Joffen Hang in there.

430 >>>Newt's favorite president? FDR.

That's just dumb, ace.  That clip is series of snippits without context. Dumb people use that kind of thing as evidence.

431 Okay, late risers: 3rd and final time today: go check out my blog.  Please.  And feel free to leave feed-back.

432 Anyone who does not vote for Rick Perry hates puppies.

That looks like a Labrador.
We all know what loose cannons those things are.
If it was a sheepdog, I'd be OK with it, but that just proves he can't win.

433 Let me spell it out for everyone here and in the (recently insane) rightwing blogosphere.

1) Newt is going to be the nominee.
2) Team Obama is going to use all of the idiotic venom being spewed by the right wing blogosphere against Newt in campaign ads against him.
3) We will get a second Obama term because the rightwing blogosphere can't get their heads out of their asses.

I honestly wonder what this current crop of ideologically perfectionist bloggers would have said about Reagan before he was elected?  Were it up to them, we never would have had our greatest conservative President ever.

434 "Conservative"????? Which idiot at Fox wrote this one.

That's a legitimate use of the word. "Conservative" doesn't universally refer to a political philosophy.

435 428 Is Ace all-in for Mittens now?

Posted by: Joffen at December 12, 2011 06:20 PM (zLeKL)

Well if not despising Romney with a white-hot passion like certain commenters here counts as being "all-in for Mitt", then uh yes, yes he is.

436

>>> Newt's favorite president? FDR.

Makes perfect sense.  Newt is very impressed with his own policy ideas, and I'm sure envisions himself being a FDR type social healer.

Here's the thing: conservatives think the government is not the solution to problems, but rather the issue at hand.

Newt thinks that Newt is the solution to problems.  Elect him as president, and he will unleash the Newt to solve the nation's problems.  Rather than getting government the f___ out of the way, like the way a conservative should.

437

plus I want a candidate who is the most likely one to call Obama a Stuttering Cluster*uck Of A Miserable Failure, and I can see newt doing that to the Lyin kINGS face and in front of his Presstitutes!

Posted by: Concealed Kerry or submit at December 12, 2011 06:25 PM (tHnoW)

You know Perry has probably been the closest to saying it.  He's called Obama an "Absolute Failure" several times in the debates.

438 I moved from Canada for this?

Posted by: Joffen at December 12, 2011 06:24 PM (zLeKL)

damn, we let another one slip through.

439

Posted by: ace at December 12, 2011 06:21 PM (nj1bB)

 

If anyone in Romney's camp had half a brain they would force a discussion of the position the respective candidates have on the expansion of Executive Power under Obama.

440 Ow .

Ow.

Ow.

Ow.

Ow.

Ow.

Ow .

Ow.

Ow.

Ow.

441 Shit. When does the baseball season start

442 Who here really thinks Obama will beat Newt in the General after Newt has chewed him up and spit him out in 3 nationally televised debates?

443 dan-o like Mitt would?

444 or Huntsman?

445 Who here really thinks Obama will beat Newt in the General after Newt has chewed him up and spit him out in 3 nationally televised debates? Posted by: Bill Mitchell at December 12, 2011 06:29 PM (uVlA4) Yeah like we give a shit about that?

446 "President Zero." - Rick Perry

447 That looks like a Labrador.
We all know what loose cannons those things are.
If it was a sheepdog, I'd be OK with it, but that just proves he can't win.
------
If you vote for Rick Perry, there will be a sheepdog in the White House (at least as a visitor if nothing else). 

Perry/Puppies '12!

448 nevergiveup, i duunno i really dislike sports, but maybe i should decide to like em or go back to reading religious texts

449 jaketapper After @NewtGingrich took a shot at @MittRomney for causing layoffs while at Bain Capital, Romney camp sent out> http://t.co/JApPxo9N

450 Newt has a very powerful argument to make to those people, which is: "Do remember how you were doing and economy was doing when I was running the House in the mid 1990s?"

Unfortunately he can't bring that up without the other side reminding everyone how his term as Speaker ended in the 1990's, or that even House Republicans were ready to string him up before it did.

451

And yes, Ace is supporting Romney. Romney and Newt are the only viable contenders at this point. I refuse to believe that Ace is dumb enough to believe that a Perry comeback is imminent.

My first choice was Santorum, but I recognize that he has no chance at winning anything at this point. Same deal with Perry.

452 "Conservative"?????  Which idiot at Fox wrote this one.

Conservative in the psychotic sense.  The media frequently refers to radical muzzies as ultra-conservative....usually when the story is unsavory.  At least, that's what I've noticed.

453 Who here really thinks Obama will beat Newt in the General after Newt has chewed him up and spit him out in 3 nationally televised debates?

I don't think it would be 3 "nationally televised debates."  I think it would be one "nationally televised debate" and two "Oh, go check out C-SPAN 3" debates.

And it won't matter how well any Republican candidate does in the debates.  Objectively, McCain beat Obama in the debates in 2008.  Try to find any coverage that agreed with that, though.  McCain's major slip-ups were on the campaign trail.

454

That's a legitimate use of the word. "Conservative" doesn't universally refer to a political philosophy.

Definition is one thing, connotation is quite another. On a polical/news channel like Fox, it sounds more like something CNN or HLN or MSLSD would do.

"Fundamentalist Muslim" would have been a better descriptor.

"Hard-core Muslims who wish to impose this kind of Islamic law upon Americans and the entire world" would have been far more accurate.

455

444....You know Perry has probably been the closest to saying it. He's called Obama an "Absolute Failure" several times in the debates.

And he has actually called him a "Miserable Failure" in a few interviews.

456 Obama would just play rope a dope against Newt in a debate and let Newt say something stupid.

457 Newt agreed to pledge to support his marriage vows to his third wife. That shows character. A sleazy character.

458
I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to think of Noot as the reincarnation of Nelson Rockefeller, minus the penile prosthesis but plus an extra dose of ego.

459

And it won't matter how well any Republican candidate does in the debates. Objectively, McCain beat Obama in the debates in 2008. Try to find any coverage that agreed with that, though. McCain's major slip-ups were on the campaign trail.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 12, 2011 06:31 PM (8y9MW)

McCain's debate appearance where his entire preparation involved repeating "Joe the Plumber Joe the Plumber Joe the Plumber Joe the Plumber" over and over was not that good.

460 McCain's major slip-ups were on the campaign trail.

Or not.  (Meaning when he suspended the campaign).
He went back and voted against capitalism to save capitalism.
It was over at that point.

461 Some testy folks out there today, from chief Ewok down. If you want some more "anybody but Newt" talk, see the latest Ricochet podcast.

462 #463, how would that work when almost everything Obama says is something stupid?

463 Let me spell it out for everyone here and in the (recently insane) rightwing blogosphere.

1) Newt is going to be the nominee.
2) Team Obama is going to use all of the idiotic venom being spewed by the right wing blogosphere against Newt in campaign ads against him.
3) We will get a second Obama term because the rightwing blogosphere can't get their heads out of their asses.

Right dude- if Newt loses, it's going to be all our fault.  Not at all due to Newt's weaknesses.  Nope.  Our fault for daring to suggest that maybe he has some serious flaws.

I mean- where else could Team Obama possibly come up with lines of attack against Newt if not for the Ace of Spades blog and comments?  It's not like they had shit like newspapers and TV back in the mid-90's.

Idiot.

464 I TOLD you guys Newt switches positions like a weather vane!!!

Basically, he's a flake.  Like your shifty uncle who was always trying to get you to invest in earthworm farms with him.

465 damn it perry.

466 leave the thread for 2 hours and come back to this......let the vomiting begin.......

467 463 Obama would just play rope a dope against Newt in a debate and let Newt say something stupid.

Posted by: steevy at December 12, 2011 06:32 PM (7WJOC)

Well the mean-time-between-stupid-statements for Newt is about 6.73 minutes.

Which is also approximately the same as his mean-time-between-really-smart-statements and that's what makes Newt so frustrating.

468 Joffen & Hollowpoint (3) Newt is not tied to Wall Street as Romney is which takes away the best weapon the dems have against the GOP. You noticed I said "as Romney", perhaps I should have said "not as tied to Wall Street". The point is still true. Newt is not going to be attacked like Romney is on this issue. Romney's entire claim to fame that!

469 was not that good.

"Not that good" was still better than Obama- who basically advocated for full-on socialism in the debates.

470 You know Perry has probably been the closest to saying it. He's called Obama an "Absolute Failure" several times in the debates.

Many Bothans died to bring us this information.

471 imagine romney and obama debating....both getting frustrated and indignant.......who can be the bigger whiner?

472 Posted by: WVU at December 12, 2011 06:35 PM (rwioF) ----------- There are so many avenues to attack candidate Newt it boggles the mind.

473 Newt: it's a “fantasy” to think military attack could take out Iran nuke program, need to bring down regime via econ sanctions No context. He COULD mean that a single strike wouldn't take it out. You would need a sustained, possibly indefinite, bombing campaign. It depends on what you mean by "attack". One day of bombing? probably would't work. I point this out because when people talk about taking our Irans nuke program they think of the Israeli attack on Osirak. One bombing raid and done. That won't work on the spread out and bunkered Iranian program.

474 imagine romney and obama debating....both getting frustrated and indignant.......who can be the bigger whiner?

It would be a critical-mass of whiney-ness.

475 469 Democrats get away with saying stupid shit,you know that.What Republican does?

476 There are so many avenues to attack candidate Newt it boggles the mind.

Newt's offered to let Obama use a teleprompter, you know.

477 phoenix, it's weird i don't really have much hope anymore for a recovery.
i just don't think we can push that hard.

478 What Republican does?

Whichever one the MFM wants to win a primary?

479 I don't think Ogabe wants to debate Newt.  Newt can operate without a teleprompter and his general knowledge of stuff vastly exceeds Ogabe's.

480 478 imagine romney and obama debating....both getting frustrated and indignant.......who can be the bigger whiner?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at December 12, 2011 06:37 PM (Ho2rs)

And then they can both cry to the moderator about how the other is being unfair.

481 Newt has a very powerful argument to make to those people, which is: "Do remember how you were doing and economy was doing when I was running the House in the mid 1990s?"

Independents don't care that he held some title in the 1990's that they don't even recognize.

482 You know Perry has probably been the closest to saying it. He's called Obama an "Absolute Failure" several times in the debates. Many Bothans died to bring us this information. It's a trap!

483 Independents don't care that he held some title in the 1990's that they don't even recognize.

Maybe not, but they might well care that he was holding national office in a leadership position (even if they don't "recognize" Speaker of the House, they'll understand that much) in years widely regarded as Boom years.

484 There will be no debates.  Particularly with Newt.

With Newt, Obama will simply cancel them and his toadies will go out and laughingly say, "The president concedes the debates to Newt.  He'd win them anyway.  Why, he's a master debater."

And Anderson Cooper will giggle and repeat that line endlessly.

With Mitt, Obama will demand ridiculous conditions like having Chris Matthews be moderator, etc.  He'll also try to manufacture a crisis to get out of the debate at the last minute.  The media will laugh it off and say that the American people know everything they need to know about Obama.

With Perry, Obama might be tempted.  After all, Perry would look like an easy mark. I still say his handlers say no dice.

You don't spend a billion dollars on a campaign to put yourself in unscripted situations.

485

453....If you vote for Rick Perry, there will be a sheepdog in the White House (at least as a visitor if nothing else).

Perry/Puppies '12!

--------

Heh. ....In more ways than one, Y-not. ....And compared to the wolf-in-a-sheep's-clothing that we have now? I'll take it.

This reminded me of that analogy of the Sheepdog [our military] versus the Sheep [most people] that has been posted around the nets for years.

And I it still creeps me out that Romney tied down their family dog to the roof of their station wagon, when they went on a family trip. Poor doogie.

486 Is it too late to jump on the Trump bandwagon? 

It's got to be better than teaming up with that G_ddamn organ grinder, Ron Paul.

487 And I think it's time to face what's going on with Rick Perry.

The reason people won't get behind him is because of the specter of George W Bush that is following around Perry.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2011 05:02 PM (sqkOB)


You think it might be because Perry is from Texas?  Is that not absurd?  Or should be?  Look at Perry's record. Doesn't that count for anything?  JUST because he's from Texas...really?

488

"Not that good" was still better than Obama- who basically advocated for full-on socialism in the debates.

And also that shit-weak, Teddy-as-Progressive-asshole speech he gave last week. That one still has my hackles raised.

It's too bad that our candidates can't focus on the real enemy of America sitting with his hooves on the Resolute Desk in the Oval Orifice. They really need to start concentrating on the problems, that of the SCOAMF and Progressive/Communists in the Congress. Whoever whips his ass in the arena of ideas will win in a landslide, and that shouldn't be hard to do.

Hell, any Moron here could disassemble his lying ass in less than two minutes on any subject. Why can't any of the candidates?

489 I can't believe how many of you hate puppies.
/s


Vote your conscience in the primary and let's see where that gets us. 

490 This reminded me of that analogy of the Sheepdog [our military] versus the Sheep [most people] that has been posted around the nets for years.

You know, I don't really agree with that analogy.  (as an aside).  Sheepdogs are mostly there to make sure the sheep don't wander off.  I think our military is much more akin to a pack of wolf-hounds.

491 Objectively, McCain beat Obama in the debates in 2008. The McCain/Obama debate with the questions from the audience is when I realized that Obama is mentally retarded. The piece of shit did not understand the questions posed, resorted to his "hear this buzzword, recite this spiel" prep, and did *not* get called on it. We have a CHILD as POTUS.

492 Maybe Mitt is a bot... Would a human...oh forget it.

493 Right dude- if Newt loses, it's going to be all our fault.  Not at all due to Newt's weaknesses.  Nope.  Our fault for daring to suggest that maybe he has some serious flaws.

There is an advantage to having a nominee who wants to win.  Romney, for better or for worse, wants to win and conservatives won't have to drag him across the finish line.

494 Hollowpoint You noticed it was after his term ended in the late 1990's that the era Reagan died around the same time and ushered in the beginning of the "era of the Bush wing of the GOP strikes back" which led us to the age of Zero. Newt was the the most competent leader the GOP has had since Reagan. Truth sucks, I know, but it is the truth.

495 453....If you vote for Rick Perry, there will be a sheepdog in the White House (at least as a visitor if nothing else).

Perry/Puppies '12!

Not pure enough.  Mine speaks perfect Old English.  Those are ShINOs.

And they wouldn't be listed on the visitor log!  Transparency!

496 You noticed I said "as Romney", perhaps I should have said "not as tied to Wall Street". The point is still true. Newt is not going to be attacked like Romney is on this issue. Romney's entire claim to fame that!

You mean Newt isn't going to be attacked for his corporate connections to entities like Fanny & Freddie (among countless others) like he is right now?

Newt absolutely would be attacked on that... but to be fair, it's only one of dozens of things he'd be attacked on.

497 I can't wait for the Mitt v. Obama debates- The Great Pant Crease War.

498 I would love to go over past comments of Newt supporters from when he endorsed Scozzamothafucka or called Ryan's plan "right-wing social engineering". That would be fun. There'd be a lot of "Fuck you Newt!" and "You fat slob!" Heh.

499 Hell, any Moron here could disassemble his lying ass in less than two minutes on any subject. Why can't any of the candidates?

They have to pretend to respect him.  Like it or not, that's the rules of the game.

Any candidate who really said, "Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure" had better be a freaking saint to survive the resulting rectal  exam.  And none of our candidates are saints.

500 I am the swing voter-you've all been waiting for...!!!

501 How would Mitt do on a Voight-Kampf test?

502 Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 12, 2011 06:27 PM (SY2Kh) That's the problem with the word "conservative". It denotes different definitions in different parts of the world. Unfortunately, it gets stuck where it does not belong. As in: Conservatives of the Islam religion believe in honor killing, female genital mutilation. In China, conservatives carry out executions for dope smuggling and running a brothel.

503 Maybe I should have said Schwang in Canadian...

504 Or perhaps Newt really called the notion that Iran’s nuclear facilities could be targeted and bombed accurately and completely, without also killing a significant number of civilians, a “fantasy.”

Which is not the same thing as Ace @philipklein accuses him of.

But, whatever, right?

505 494 And I think it's time to face what's going on with Rick Perry.

The reason people won't get behind him is because of the specter of George W Bush that is following around Perry.

Posted by: soothsayer at December 12, 2011 05:02 PM (sqkOB)


You think it might be because Perry is from Texas? Is that not absurd? Or should be? Look at Perry's record. Doesn't that count for anything? JUST because he's from Texas...really?

Posted by: jwm at December 12, 2011 06:42 PM (0oYHO)

-------

Some folks are forgetting that Bush won....twice.

506 Any candidate who really said, "Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure" had better be a freaking saint to survive the resulting rectal exam. Bullshit. Humiliation vectors superimpose. Obama has so defiled the office he's been squatting in for the last three years, that there is *nothing* that can be said about him or done to him that is out of bounds.

507 You think it might be because Perry is from Texas?  Is that not absurd?  Or should be?  Look at Perry's record. Doesn't that count for anything?  JUST because he's from Texas...really?

Posted by: jwm at December 12, 2011 06:42 PM (0oYHO)

Yes.  Many people are quite bigoted and proud of their bigotry.

By the way, no more for me. No more accepting that liberals are misguided people.

Nope. They call us racist, I call projection. They call us dumb, I call them elitists who hate normal people.

They love eugenics. They love slavery, yes slavery.

508 _______

Mitt would bet $10,000 he could pass the Voight-Kampf.

509 Just saw this damning Youtube on Newts loving him some FDR- yawn. Out of context clips- talked about him as a liberal Democrat- was being nice to John Dingell- the usual Newt hyperbole. Also- just to let Ace know since he's off on a tear on twitter. Gingrich is conservative enough when the only way Obama wins is by cowing the GOP nominee into a mass of jello that demoralizes the vote. Newt fights effectively- no one else is doing that right now in what is going to be a tough, emotional election. Romney?- the guy who didn't even realize he was stalling at 25%? McCain 2.0

510 Mitt supporters have to just realize this...your boyfriend is a wuss. There I said it...Obama is going to dunk on him just like Maverick (born c. 1839) and the now departed pimp Teddy Bear did before. Wuss does not equal leader....

511 There is an advantage to having a nominee who wants to win.  Romney, for better or for worse, wants to win and conservatives won't have to drag him across the finish line.
------
Yeah, I agree Mitt wants to win.  But what I don't get is why he didn't do the one thing he needed to do to seal up the nomination: admit Masscare was a mistake. 

I can't recall if you were one of them, but many of us morons early in the summer were begging Romney to get a clue and disavow that thing.  We were all framing the various arguments he could use to disentangle himself from that rope he put around his neck, but he wouldn't do it.

So, although I know Romney wants to win, I am starting to wonder if he can win.  He's only won one election.  Maybe there's a reason. 


But I disagree with you about not needing us to drag him across the finish line.  The only way we win against Obama is if we all participate in getting our nominee elected.  But I have really grown to dislike Romney and cannot at this moment see myself doing anything more than vote for him (if that). So when all of the media smears and half-truths come out, including some unappealing things that will be true about Romney (we all have them), I can't envision myself going to bat for the man. 

512 Obama has so defiled the office he's been squatting in for the last three years, that there is *nothing* that can be said about him or done to him that is out of bounds.

I wish I lived in your world.  However, here in the real world, Obama still has a near 50% personal approval, and large number of people who disapprove of him (both his policies and personally) still believe in "respect the office."  Which means any candidate being so crass as to use the SCOAMF phrase would be viewed as disloyal.

Calling him, as Perry does, a "Miserable Failure," or an "Absolute Failure" is riding the line (it would be safer to call his policies such).  Going full-on SCOAMF would not fly.

513 Newt was the the most competent leader the GOP has had since Reagan. Truth sucks, I know, but it is the truth.

Your memory of his term seems to be a bit lacking.  House Republicans didn't work to oust him because he was too competent.

That's not to say that there weren't good accomplishments under his tenure, but he ended up being more of a liability than asset, and had nobody but himself to blame for it.

514

491 There will be no debates. Particularly with Newt.

I think so too, AmishDude.

If Newt ends up being the nominee.....I think that pretty much guarantees that there will be no debates. ....Obama will invent some excuses for ducking them, and the media will say "Okay".

515 Not pure enough.  Mine speaks perfect Old English.  Those are ShINOs.

LOL. 

Mine (tri rough collie) speaks some sort of Wookiee dialect.  Truly bizarre. 

516 That's the problem with the word "conservative".
It denotes different definitions in different parts of the world.

Most people fully understand that it has different connotations in different places and circumstances.

To describe Muslim hardliners as "conservative" is completely appropriate.  Nobody believes that the reference means they're limited government Republicans.

517

A newt is a kind of salamander

518 Newt argued for the government to use its power to force citizens to purchase health insurance. Romney signed a bill that now forces citizens to purchase health insurance. These two men have no qualms about using government to control the citizenry. Now tell me why the fuck should I even consider supporting them?

519

You want the squishy votes added to the base, don't you?

Mitt can't sell himself to his own party.  That's all you need to know. 

He's a failed candidate³ who can't get it up.

Posted by: garrett

 

So, the reason we should support Romney over Gingrich is that we aren't supporting Romney over Gingrich?  How very . . . meta.

Oh, and we shouldn't support Perry because polls show that many of us don't.

---

Yet it also becomes clear that the acceptance and spreading of their vision has always depended on another class of men – ‘leaders’ who had to be philosophical strategists, striking a compromise between truth and men’s receptivity to it.

What is this tripe?  What the hell are you talking about?  Newt is a humble pragmatist all of a sudden.  NO. HE. ISN'T.  What Newt is is someone of erratic views, all over the spectrum from interesting and conservative to lefty and loony.  He's not humble.  This is a dude who muses whether he is the destined leader of civilization in the turning point of world history.  Holy crap.  And sometimes he folds like a cheap deck of cards and sometimes he keeps on fighting his own side like a champ.

 

It wouldn't be so bad if economic times were good and there weren't millions of people desperate for work who were recently laid off by a figure like Romney.

Its better than adultery or incompetence.  At least we can make a case for it (and we should).  Anyway, Romney can also point out that the federal workforce keeps growing, keeps getting better paid, and that Obama is keeping their jobs at the expense of the public.  In short, you got laid off because Obama won't lay off his own employees.

 

---

How can you possibly argue that the most famous conservative Speaker of the House in living memory is just as bad as a guy who has spent his pre-2006 years as a liberal Republican?

Because history didn't stop in 1996?  All that stuff about Gingrich folding in the budget standoff, being forced out by his own conservatives for being impossible to work with, and his decades long big government advocacy and lobbyist rake-off?

---

Newt's favorite president? FDR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgdzZJePL04

Says it 20 times

Oh, god, we're seriously going to do this, aren't we? 

Well, one consolation: we get to see the purists and the True Conservatives  (tm) defending Newt's big government erratic looniness for the next 9 months or so, and then after the loss in November see them instantly pivot to blaming the rest of us for shoving that RINO Newt on them.  No, wait, that's not a consolation.

---

For all his foibles, that is a real accomplishment.  Sure beats Romneycare.

The Presidency shouldn't be some kind of lifetime achievement award.  Look, conservatives wouldn't even keep Newt as Speaker back in the 90s.  Now we're supposed to make him President in the 10s, because Clinton decided to triangulate on welfare?  Please.

 

---

2) Team Obama is going to use all of the idiotic venom being spewed by the right wing blogosphere against Newt in campaign ads against him.

It never would have occurred to Team Obama that serial adultery, lobbyist cash, loony policies (space streetlights, wtf), arrogance, etc., were problems.  Too bad those darn conservative bloggers want to actually vet our candidates in the primary, because otherwise we could just crown Newt in the general election just like you want us to do in the primaries.

520

They have to pretend to respect him.  Like it or not, that's the rules of the game.

"Mr. President, your insistence on governmental intervention through overregulation in the private market has led not to prosperity, but to disappointingly high levels of unemployment, as many of your own agencies' reports have pointed out. Please remind the American people how many millions of Americans were employed in 2007, in millions, compared to the number of currently employed Americans today, if you would. Also point out what the acutal unemployment rate would be if the number of Americans employed in 2007 were included in the most recent unemployment figures, in percentages if you will."

"Blah, blah, blah, um, uh....blah."

"Excuse me, Mr. President, but you haven't yet answered my question. The American people are waiting. "

521

A newt is a kind of salamander

A mitt is a leathery, padded glove designed to cup balls.

522 You know what would be nice?  If Romney would pay $10K for every flip I could find, and $20K for every flop.

523 @527 - I didn't say they wouldn't kill him in a debate.  I said they can't just come out and say "Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure."

Which they can't.

524 A newt is a kind of salamander A mitt is a leathery, padded glove designed to cup balls. -------- and a Perry is your next President.

525 Most people fully understand that it has different connotations in different places and circumstances. To describe Muslim hardliners as "conservative" is completely appropriate. Nobody believes that the reference means they're limited government Republicans. Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 12, 2011 06:53 PM (SY2Kh) You really believe this? Why, in on this post alone, with respect to extremely intelligent commentators, why they were questioning the usage on a major news-cast. Why would you expect the "majority" to understand the unique differences? I apologize beforehand, as I have the utmost respect for your mind and observations, 99% of the time.

526 You know what would be nice?  If Romney would pay $10K for every flip I could find, and $20K for every flop.

"If I could make a livin' out of vettin' you/ I'd be a millionaire in a day or two..."

527 I can't recall if you were one of them, but many of us morons early in the summer were begging Romney to get a clue and disavow that thing.  We were all framing the various arguments he could use to disentangle himself from that rope he put around his neck, but he wouldn't do it.

Yep. I was one.  He would have walked away with the nomination.  Wouldn't have had to work at it.

Here's the thing, he's a managerial progressive.  If you want to get a job as a CEO, you don't say,  "Here's where I made the same mistake your last guy did and here's what I've learned." You've got to be a miracle-worker.

I think, even at this late stage, if Mitt were to find a way to disavow it or downplay it, he'd win.  Yes, even now. He'd have to ease into it. One way is to say that it can only work at the state level.

528 530 @527 - I didn't say they wouldn't kill him in a debate.  I said they can't just come out and say "Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure."

Which they can't.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 12, 2011 06:58 PM (8y9MW)

Can they refer to him as The Lawyer?

I'd love it if they referred to him as The Lawyer.  But that's me.

529

I love that Newt is taking the left-liberal playbook and attacking Romney for turning around failing businesses by laying people off.

And I love it even more that the True Conservatives are just shrugging it off.  The same ones who screamed when Romney did the same thing to Perry.  As they should have, because it sucked when Romney did it.

Newsflash: it sucks when Newt does it too.

530 So how is Perry going to stage a comeback again? Because waiting for other candidates to implode isn't much of a strategy.

 I mean, I'm open to it... but it looks about as unlikely as can be.

531 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at December 12, 2011 06:59 PM (8y9MW) You know what would be even better? The next person who drops dead, and instead of leaving 13 million dollars to a cat, gives it to me. And I would take care of that pet, believe you me.

532 Posted by: AmishDude at December 12, 2011 07:02 PM (73tyQ) ----- If Newt and Mitt didn't support the mandate the way they did I would have an easier time supporting them. I'd still support Rick Perry, but I'd have an easier time supporting the other two. Seriously. Take your government hands off my freedom, assholes.

533 Wait, I have it. I have the solution!

Brokered convention. Nominate Tim Tebow!

3 years of fiscal suckage, and in the fourth year we annex Russia, buy the Atlantic Ocean, and plant a flag on the surface of the sun.

Believe!

534

If Romney would pay $10K for every flip I could find, and $20K for every flop.

Or Newt.  Two frickin' gold mines.  You could use diamonds as gravel.

535 So how is Perry going to stage a comeback again? Because waiting for other candidates to implode isn't much of a strategy. I mean, I'm open to it... but it looks about as unlikely as can be. ---- Well, it's our job to take a look at each candidate's record and vote accordingly. We have a job to do, too folks. Part of the reason I think Perry is doing so poorly in the polls is that many of us have forgotten our responsibility to the Constitution. We have to defend the Constitution, too.

536 537 So how is Perry going to stage a comeback again? Because waiting for other candidates to implode isn't much of a strategy.

 I mean, I'm open to it... but it looks about as unlikely as can be.

Posted by: runninrebel at December 12, 2011 07:04 PM (QiZow)

He's been trying and most of us on this blog don't like it.  He's going all in with the faith thing.  Obama's war on Christians and all that.  He's really giving it an effort, but time is running short and the Newt boomlet looks like it won't end in time for Perry to capitalize in IA.  I think he's going to make a push in IA and go right to SC.

537

Oh yeah, those wise Republicans kicked out Newt so they can bask in the glorious leadership of Tom Delay and Dennis Hastert.

That was a real golden age for the conservative movement, wasn't it?

538 rollcall El Salvador ambassador defeated in Senate. http://t.co/ytuoICck

539 (1) Can someone name me Romney's greatest conservative achievement? (2) Can someone name me Newt's greatest conservative achievement? Now compare the two...

540

Which they can't.

Sadly, this is the political world in which we must live and try to thrive.

However, just think of Pixy's servers on fire from the Interwebs searches if anyone did use the term SCOAMF in a live debate. Ace would be famous in about three milliseconds.

541 I think, even at this late stage, if Mitt were to find a way to disavow it or downplay it, he'd win.  Yes, even now. He'd have to ease into it. One way is to say that it can only work at the state level.
---

At this stage of the game, I'd expect a couple of things:
1. A white paper from his campaign providing a detailed analysis of how Masscare failed
2. A policy paper explaining what the Replace part of his Repeal & Replace would entail

To me Mitt has no credibility arguing the Federalist position. 

When Rick Perry makes that argument, I believe him.  And it works wonders for my ability to support Perry because I am not nearly as socially conservative as he is.  So any Scary Perry stuff the opposition pulls out about Perry on things like creationism in public schools or whatever is something I can set aside because I know that he'd make the Dept of Education weaker, not stronger. 

542 Joffen Perry is doing bad in the polls because he folds in debates. He is a probably a good person, but he is going to have to improve his game. He is not a good strategist either, and he has some problems as well from a conservative stand point.

543 >>He's been trying and most of us on this blog don't like it.  He's going all in with the faith thing.

BTW, did you see the WaPo piece on the NH voter (Vietnam vet) who slammed Mitt on gay marriage and support for gays in the military?  It's over at Hot Air.

544 I don't really know why we're getting our panties in a wad about this. I'm sure the wise voters of Iowa and New Hampshire will make the most prudent decision for us. Have they ever failed us before?

545 536

I love that Newt is taking the left-liberal playbook and attacking Romney for turning around failing businesses by laying people off.

And I love it even more that the True Conservatives are just shrugging it off. The same ones who screamed when Romney did the same thing to Perry. As they should have, because it sucked when Romney did it.

Newsflash: it sucks when Newt does it too.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream, Cultist for Jesus at December 12, 2011 07:03 PM (epBek

By my count Newt has to use the liberal playbook at least two more times to equal Romney. 

Demanding an apology from an opponent for something they didn't say.

Scare-mongering on Social Security.

"I did healthcare in Massachusetts for the Children.  Why do you hate children so much?"

546 If Newt and Mitt didn't support the mandate the way they did I would have an easier time supporting them. I'd still support Rick Perry, but I'd have an easier time supporting the other two.

Seriously. Take your government hands off my freedom, assholes.

Posted by: Joffen at December 12, 2011 07:05 PM (zLeKL)

I'll give Newt this, he doesn't believe it now. And I truly think he doesn't.

Newt really does think like a college professor:

(1) He says things off the top of his head to get people arguing and thinking. He expects people to confront and debate him.  He doesn't realize that he just made a policy proposal and may have to stick by it.

(2) He desperately seeks the approval of his peers.

(3) He expects the slate to be wiped clean at the next lecture.

547 You really believe this? Why, in on this post alone, with respect to extremely intelligent commentators, why they were questioning the usage on a major news-cast. Why would you expect the "majority" to understand the unique differences?

Those making the objection also understand the difference, but apparently don't trust that the population at large understands the meaning of a very common word.I disagree.

American political conservatives want to return to a time of limited federal government.

Saudi religious conservatives want to return to a time where executing people for "witchcraft" and adhere to a hardcore interpretation of Sharia law.

Russian conservatives want to return to the days of the Soviet Empire.

People understand the distinction. Nobody read the Fox News article and thought "OMG Rick Perry wants to execute witches!!!".

548

So, the reason we should support Romney over Gingrich is that we aren't supporting Romney over Gingrich?  How very . . . meta.

Newt has sold himself to the base successfully.

Romney has not.

Newt has the ability to sway voters.  This is not limited to our side.

Mittens can't even sell himself to our side. (and tet, you seem convinced he's the only choice for the vaunted squish vote)

By my count, that means Romney needs to sell himself to the base (fail), the squishes AND the opposition (unlikely).  [Certainly an attainable task for someone who can't get over 1/3 of his own party, right?]

Newt only needs to sell himself to the squishies...but he is a good salesman.

Oh, and we shouldn't support Perry because polls show that many of us don't.

Perry doen't have it.

549

At this stage of the game, I'd expect a couple of things:
1. A white paper from his campaign providing a detailed analysis of how Masscare failed
2. A policy paper explaining what the Replace part of his Repeal & Replace would entail

To me Mitt has no credibility arguing the Federalist position.

Yeah right.  The most critical Mitt has been of Romneycare is when it gets compared to Obamacare and he responds "Boy I wish he'd called me up so I could have told him what worked and what didn't."  And that's really about the extent of his canned practiced answer on the subject I can remember.  He's used it twice that I remember hearing, both at Candidate Forums (The DeMint one and the Huckabee one.)  Exact same answer months apart.

The rest of the time he's talking about how proud he is of that piece of crap and how its wonderful for Massachusetts.

550 Newt understands that Rome was not built in a day.... Anti-Newt folks want Rome built today OR they want Paris built in a day in the case of Mitt supporters.

551 Why does Perry fold in debates? He wasn't appointed governor of the rootin' tootin' cowboy state of Texas, was he? He must be familiar with the composition of the debate forum. No? Why all these excuses?

552 BTW, did you see the WaPo piece on the NH voter (Vietnam vet) who slammed Mitt on gay marriage and support for gays in the military?  It's over at Hot Air.

Actually after reading that my opinion of Mitt just went up a little bit.

553 Obama isn't going to debate.  Putting all of your eggs in the debate basket is going to leave you with the rest of the eggs on your face.

If Obama doesn't debate,  what good are Newt's debate skills?

At least Perry has shown he can raise money and hire intelligent people to make great ads.  Plus,  he has John Bolton on his team.

And unlike tying his dog to the top of his car, he shot a coyote in defense of his dog.  This is something people can relate to.

Dog abuser or dog defender? Choose wisely.

554

Oh yeah, those wise Republicans kicked out Newt so they can bask in the glorious leadership of Tom Delay and Dennis Hastert.

 

The actual conservatives that were around back then were at the forefront of getting rid of Newt, because he kept selling them out to Clinton.

Your willful ignorance doesn't change the facts.

 

---

Newt has sold himself to the base successfully.

Romney has not.

Newt has the ability to sway voters.  This is not limited to our side.

Mittens can't even sell himself to our side. (and tet, you seem convinced he's the only choice for the vaunted squish vote)

By my count, that means Romney needs to sell himself to the base (fail), the squishes AND the opposition (unlikely).  [Certainly an attainable task for someone who can't get over 1/3 of his own party, right?]

Newt only needs to sell himself to the squishies...but he is a good salesman.

yeah, if I want to vote for whoever is polling well on the day I vote, I'll just look at a poll, not talk to you about it.

 

If you seriously think that we should vote for whoever the most voters are pulling for, because it shows how popular they are, you're the second argument in this thread for Newt's BRain Science campaign.

Vote for Mitt, Obama, Mitt, Perry, Obama, Obama, Mitt, Cain, Mitt, Obama, Gingrich . . .  Hopefully you're not making donations too.

555 Posted by: Hollowpoint at December 12, 2011 07:17 PM (SY2Kh) I know you make sense. I know you believe this. But our country elected the most disqualified person ever, hands-down. to hold the office of the president...even when given the facts in black and white, double-spaced, on plain paper. And that is a fact I will never get over. And I will never "assume" again.

556

Newt understands that Rome was not built in a day....

unless you use lean-sigma 6 analysis, and apply the power of brain science.  And, of course, you need the Leader of the Forces of Civilization on your side.

557

yeah, if I want to vote for whoever is polling well on the day I vote, I'll just look at a poll, not talk to you about it.

 

What I am pointing to is evidence that Newt has already done what you claim Romney will do.  (Even though Romney has completely failed to gain even marginal ground throughout this protracted process)

Newt was well behind.  He now leads.  He has brought people to him.

Romney was in front, lost ground, and can't gain any back.  People are not moving closer to Mittens.  In fact, he's steadily lost support.

But he's the one who will pull enough votes from the magical moderates to win? 

It seems to me that you don't have a fucking clue. 

 

558 ...need to bring down regime via econ sanctions...

He's gotta be fucking kidding. There's been sanctions on Iran for how long? And they're still on the verge of getting The Bomb, which pretty much tells me that sanctions don't mean diddly squat to them.

559

The rest of the time he's talking about how proud he is of that piece of crap and how its wonderful for Massachusetts.

Posted by: buzzion at December 12, 2011 07:19 PM (GULKT)

 

I thought it was reported that Romney's team was consulted when team O wrote the Obamacare bill?

Was that debunked?

560 "

I thought it was reported that Romney's team was consulted when team O wrote the Obamacare bill?

Was that debunked?

Posted by: garrett at December 12, 2011 07:37 PM (Smq5r)"

No.  This is 100% accurate.  Jonathan Gruber was one of the senior architects of both measures and claims they are very similar.  he's actually sharply critical of Romney now.  I think a lot of Romney's former people don't appreciate the guy because he winds up flip flopping on their hard work.  For a liberal who worked hard on Romneycare, this is probably annoying, not that I give a crap.

561

I thought it was reported that Romney's team was consulted when team O wrote the Obamacare bill?

Was that debunked?

Posted by: garrett at December 12, 2011 07:37 PM (Smq5r)

Romney apparently wanted a direct phone call to him, and not his team. 

In other words talking bullshit to try and avoid that Romneycare is the Beta Testing for Obamacare claim.

562 @Actually after reading that my opinion of Mitt just went up a little bit.

Sure, I agree with you that there's nothing wrong with how Mitt handled that (except for sitting down next to a guy who he saw simply as "a Vietname vet" and trying to be his buddy; that was a bad read of the guy on Mitt's part).  But the thing is that we've been told Perry is the one who is vulnerable on social issues, with the implication being that Mitt isn't.  That's simply not true. 

Also, that fellow is supposedly one of the squishy middle we're supposed to be trying to grab.  Yeah, right. 

563 "I love that Newt is taking the left-liberal playbook and attacking Romney for turning around failing businesses by laying people off."

Well, you've got a point.  Mitt had a duty to make money and the layoffs are great.  What about the China outsourcing?  Bain is a huge chinese manufacturing investor, calling themselves the pioneer.  That's not very good for this country.  Granted, that's fiduciary duty, but some people don't think that justifies what this has done to our country.

I mean, if I was paid $20 per flag I burned, I wouldn't burn any.  If I did, would it be a good excuse that this was what I was supposed to be doing?

The lay off stuff is not the same.  Those companies weren't sustainable without the fat trimmed, and I hope the advisers who did this consulting are available for a House appropriations committee.

564 Whats up with the all out organized and coordinated attack on the Newt by the so called conservative radio hosts ???  I smell piles of money tainted with the odor of smelly old pollock. 

565 @565

"He's gotta be fucking kidding."

Or, maybe @philipklein is not a reliable source of information here.

Perhaps what Newt really said was more along the lines of:

On Iran, Gingrich said, “I believe we cannot allow them to have a nuclear weapon,” and argued that could only be achieved by forcing a “regime change,” although he said he would ideally not use military forces to change the regime. He called the notion that Iran’s nuclear facilities could be targeted and bombed accurately and completely, without also killing a significant number of civilians, a “fantasy.”

Which is from Katrina Trinko of NRO, of all places. http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy3mx9x

But maybe there the limits to how much NRO hates Ginrich are a little bit less than @philipklein.

566

Newt understands that Rome was not built in a day....

Ron Paul remembers it.

567

This is yet another reason I dig the Ace 'o Spades.

Doing the wonky shit so I don't have to.

Seriously, my BP is through the roof and if I had to put this much into it, I would have dropped dead many moons ago.

 

568 I don't know if this is the same guy Ace is quoting.

Cannot find an @philipklein on twitter; just an @philipaklein who does not have a quote like Ace shows on his twitter feed .

His Washington Examiner page has the following:

"Gingrich said the fundamental question about Iran that everybody should ask is whether you think the world could live with the country having nuclear weapons. If the answer is "no," then regime change is the only answer. He said that it was a "fantasy" to think a military attack could take out Iran's nuclear program, and said regime change needed to take place through crippling economic sanctions. He said any Israeli prime minister staring at the threat of a nuclear Iran, would have to ask, "Am I going to take the risk of a second Holocaust?" And the U.S. has to be prepared to help Israel, or risk a nuclear war in the region. He called Iran the "biggest national security threat of the next 10 years."

Which is really kind of at odds with the thrust of Ace's post, even ignoring Katrina Trinko's take on Newt's statements.

569 Oh, yeah.  Link to Philip A Klein's Examiner page.  Sorry.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/7fzw27v

And I can tell that I'm not seeing all of klein's twitter feed, though I don't know why.

I expect the item Ace quoted is up in there somewhere.  Apologies for the negative comment; it was my error.

570 I just saw a clip of Romney (can't remember where, alas) where he says that he thinks Obama is a terrible president, but he's certainly not an evil person. So--when the other side launches it's smear campaign against whichever candidate we run, which candidate is most likely to go on the offensive, bringing up Obama's radical past, his Indonesian passport, his illegal trip to Pakistan, his criticism of the "negative rights" in the Constitution? And who will be another honorable Republican, accepting a dignified honorable defeat at the hands of thugs?

571
Excellent blog, thanks for the share. I'll be a regular viewer.

572 Excellent blog, thanks for the share. I'll be a regular viewer.

573 Wow i really found this to be an interesting read; thanks for sharing

574 "Newt: it's a “fantasy” to think military attack could take out Iran nuke program, need to bring down regime via econ sanctions" You mean like the ones we have been imposing for the past 40 years? Well, it didn't work for 40 years, maybe it will if we do it for another forty. *BANGS HIS HEAD AGAINST HIS DESK*

575 I donÂ’t usually add my comments, but I will in this case. Nice work. I look forward to reading more.

576 I can't believe ace & co. are now trying to shove Romney down our throats.

Ya that's what I think every time I read a post here.  "Boy that ace & co. sure are a bunch of Romney shills".  What if anyone even says "well maybe Romney is better than Newt" - you freak out and say Ace is doing a Mitt crame down.  Chill.

As one of the very few Romney supporters that posts here, Ace is not trying to shove Romney down our throats.  I very sure of that.