1 >>From February 1933 to the spring of 1937, the number of registered unemployed fell from six million to less than one million.

A little easier to do that when you're ginning up for war, I'd imagine, but to today's leftists, military spending doesn't count as "stimulus".

2 Fortunately, we have a benevolent dictator-in-training already in the white house.  All we need is a suspension of the bill of rights, and a civilian defense force.

3 But the Nazis were "right wing".

4 Not just the Unions.  The Nazis "coordinated" EVERYTHING.

5 The Left:  We must have civility.  "NAZIS!!!", they shrieked.

6 Hitler and the Nazis essentially made ALL workers Public Union Employees, established 'card check' and banned 'Right to Work' rights.

7 God whats the Jonah G quote that pwns here? Looking it up now

8 Another major part of the DAF was the KdF, or Kraft durch Freude - Strength through Joy. This organization, as a subset of the DAF, was tasked with providing activities such as trips, cruises, concerts, and cultural activities for the German workers.

Hey, that sounds pretty cool. Are they still looking for someone to lead that up? I think I may be looking for work in a couple of years...

9

OT, but throwing it here

Acccuweather had a post on the Super Moon (dated Mar 1 2011) and how it is correlated to be near the last major earthquake

Supermoon coming Mar 19 (and another next month). and the Earthquake/Tsunami last night

Last Super Moon was Jan 10 2005, and there was an  Earthquake/Tsunami Dec 26 2004 in Indonesia

Correlation or random chance x2?

And then what are the chances of another earthquake etc event next month?

10 Fuck the left. When they ran like scared rabbits out of town and State, they lost all rights to criticize. Start acting like adults and respecting elections, then they can get back to me. And if they mention Hitler again, they can meet me behind the gym like in the old days.

11 No one currently involved in this issue in Wisconsin (including Michael Moore the preening, unserious jackhole) has the faintest idea of what actual totalitarianism is or what it entails.  Arguments around the edges of collective bargaining were not Hitler's or his goons style, such as it was.

12 The central idea behind national socialist economics is that it was a third way between capitalism and international socialism.

Both business and unions would be given a seat at the table, but the government would hold the real power. People would nominally privately own industry, but the state would direct it for its own ends.

This is not particularly different from the Left's current view of how the economy should be structured.

13 Oh, and this is all rather besides the point.

The debate now is about how much power public sector unions should have, not private sector ones.

And FDR, of all people, was an advocate of the "conservative position".

14

>>From February 1933 to the spring of 1937, the number of registered unemployed fell from six million to less than one million.

A little easier to do that when you're ginning up for war, I'd imagine, but to today's leftists, military spending doesn't count as "stimulus".

The Autobahn was a shovel ready job.

 

15

I just can't keep up with the daily dose of cynicism required to interpret Leftism 2011.

Whenever a Leftist opens their mouth, a lie falls out.  Or another "projection". They accuse the right of doing bad things.  But the problem is that it is the Leftists who are doing the bad things, right out in plain sight, and accusing those on the right of actually doing it.

This entire post is surreal, thanks for doing the research and posting.

16

The following really tells all about the Traitor in Chief Obama....“Mr. Obama has told people that it would be so much easier to be the president of China. As one official put it, ‘No one is scrutinizing Hu Jintao’s words in Tahrir Square.’” If you’re president of China, people around the world who are fighting for freedom don’t really expect you to help. If you’re president of China, you don’t have to put up with annoying off-year congressional elections, and then negotiate your budget with a bunch of gun-and-religion-clinging congressmen and senators. If you’re president of China, you can fund your national public radio to your heart’s content. And if you’re president of China, when you host a conference on bullying in schools, people take you seriously. Unfortunately for him and us, Barack Obama is president of the United States. That job brings with it certain special responsibilities. It’s a tough job—maybe tougher than being president of China. But Barack Obama ran for president of the United States. Maybe he should start behaving as one. Conclusion: Obama hates America, so why doesn't this piece shit just quit then !!!!!!!!

17 I have a book of quotes, myself. There are several volumes.

18 Everyone that isn't sound on the subject go read Liberal Fascism by Goldberg and The Forgotten Man by Shlaes.

I'm going to have to listen to it to get the pull quote.

http://bit.ly/hlXmdI

19 Problem is, as far as anyone can tell, Hitler never said that.

Shit Hitler Said, volume XI.

20 I'm shocked, shocked to find proggers spreading lies.

21 Hitler also operated on the "barter economy".   If Country A needed farm equipment and Germany needed wheat, Hitler would make the trade with that country.  No currency involved.  No loans involved.

22 Well, Obama did say that with his winning the election, SEA LEVELS WOULD RISE.


See, I can play the game too!

23 “Mr. Obama has told people that it would be so much easier to be the president of China. As one official put it, ‘No one is scrutinizing Hu Jintao’s words in Tahrir Square.’”

It moved.

24

Well, they aren't really making up quotes. At least not in the way normal people refer to "making things up". 

The left really has no ability to distinguish past and present, history to them is simply what they need it to be at this moment. So since they desperately need a historical quote now, in their mind this is an actual quote. Even if they cant actually find it, they'll justify it with "well, he *might* have said that, so it's true". To them it will be just as true as Halliburton being the evil corporate empire was before Koch replaced Halliburton. (And before Halliburton I think it was some thinktank in New York.)

This is also how they can come up with all those great stories that are demonstratebly false, like how Hillary was named for a person that came into fame after she was born, or Kerrys "x-mas in Cambodia". History to them is just a backdrop to the present, and to them it will be whatever today needs it to be.

25 The quote reminds me a lot of the bogus Hitler gun control quote that was going around several years back: "This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" so it's not like the Left has a monopoly on quote manufacture.

26

To be fair, not all companies suffered. Companies that back Hitler made fortunes, obviously short lived ones.

The best example and the most well known example would be that of Krupp Company of Essen.

If your grandfather fought in WW2, chances are good he was shot at by a Krupp made weapon or ammuntion. Whether it was a tank, 88 Flak, U Boat, etc.

I suggest you read William Manchester's "The Arms of Krupp"

27 The left really has no ability to distinguish past and present, history to them is simply what they need it to be at this moment.

Ann Coulter said it best - The beauty of being a liberal is that history always begins this morning. 

28 I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as left- or right-wing. You are either in favor of liberty, freedom and personal responsibility or you are in favor of some form of tyranny. Timothy McVeigh, skinheads and others of that ilk are just racist crackpots that have nothing to do with conservatism and true American values. Therefore, the saying right-wing extremist makes zero sense - I can't be any more in favor of the rule of law and the Constitution than I already am. It is the "left" (the tyrants) who are the purveyors of violence, racism and totalitarianism in their pursuit of paradise on earth, be they of the Marxist or Islamist stripe. Same difference.

29 Yeah. The first thing I said to myself [screaming at the TV does count as 'saying to yourself', doesn't it?] when I first heard this "Hitler banned unions" crap was, "No, he forced everyone to join the state-run unions."

30 As Bormann, one of the men closest to Hitler, said publicly in 1941, "National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable."

-- Shirer, p. 240

This is one of the things that kills me. The left is obsessed with the notion that NAZIism was somehow pro-Christianity.

Their evidence? Before assuming total power, Hitler said nice things in public about Christianity.

Privately? He and his inner circle despised Christianity. Bormann would have fit in well in NYC or Boston with his views on religion, and Himmler, being a "spiritualist" would have fit in well in Los Angeles, and the founder of the SA, Röhm ? Let's just say he would have loved San Francisco...

And out of the regime's opponents? Archbishop Galen? Col Stauffenberg? Bonhoeffer? They'd all be called members of the "religious reich" by the modern left.

Heck, Galen posed the most serious threat to Hitler until Patton by fighting him politically over "reproductive rights" with Hitler taking the modern liberal side and Galen "the far right" position...

31

I remember that during the Olympics in China, Obama gushing praise on China for their building of the Olympic venues, and especially that birds' nest stadium.

Obama's quote was something along the lines of "America could never do something like this, but here in China the leaders can force the spending of whatever amounts of money are necessary to build these venues".

He does NOT see himself as president of a free people, he wants to be the dictator of slaves.

 

32 Excellent post, Fritz.

33 Hitlers girlfriend Eva Braun liked to go skinny dipping, recently published photos have shown

34 Hitlers girlfriend Eva Braun liked to go skinny dipping

and wear blackface.

35 A link for James's #16 quote of Obama wishing he had a setup like Hu. [To the Weekly Standard.]

36 Hitlers girlfriend Eva Braun liked to go skinny dipping and wear blackface. Posted by: the sidebar muse at March 11, 2011 10:20 AM (GTbGH) yeah i saw that. Actually I thought she looked good in black face. Wonder if Hitler made her do that before bed?

37 eva also had intestinal discomforts......

38 33 Hitlers girlfriend Eva Braun liked to go skinny dipping, recently published photos have shown

Posted by: nevergiveup at March 11, 2011 10:18 AM (0GFWk)

----------------------------------------------------

Europeans are not as hung up about their naked bodies as we are.  LOL.  There are nude beaches all over Europe today. 

39 This is one of the things that kills me. The left is obsessed with the notion that NAZIism was somehow pro-Christianity.

That would be news to the priest block at Dachau, wouldn't it?

40 Well, that quote is a bit off. Never the less, I didn't really hate teh Jooos. I am just misunderstood. I just kept having these nightmares that Eva was going to die in childbirth. Then I choked her.

41 and wear blackface.
Who didn't?

42

"I support the teabaggers!"

- From Stuff Hitler Said, 3rd New York Times Edition

43 3 But the Nazis were "right wing".

Posted by: Vic at March 11, 2011 09:56 AM (M9Ie6)

That is a long standing myth. Both the Nazis AND the Communists were left wing, but I think you already knew that and are just being sarcastic.

44 We have to remember that anyone fighting Socialism is dubbed Fascist. Why we accept these Marxist/Stalinist terms is beyond me.

45 Did we violate Goodwin's law right off the bat?

46 Europeans are not as hung up about their naked bodies as we are.  LOL.

The bigger the German, the smaller the Speedo.

47 But the Nazis were "right wing".

National Socialist German Workers Party

Hello?!

48 i just wish people who were not hung up about their body weren't so fugly

49 Nice roundup, fritz. It's one-stop shopping for rebutting the statists' bullshit.

50

It is fair to point out that the Jew hatred didn't come from old German Paganism.

I am in no way saying the NAZI's were christian(although many individual germans remained christian), but the Jew hatred endemic in European society definately comes from medieval christianities scape goating of the jews for everything. It's something that they still haven't shaken off.

The Paganism the Nazi's tried to make a new national religion was similar to the orignal german paganism, but with the addition of jew hatred.

51 The latest quote-meme making the rounds (courtesy of the hard-hitting Daily Show) is Reagan talking about unions saying without them and collective bargaining, we don't have freedom.
Of course, context is likely 100% lacking. I'm sure the ass that buys that doesn't know Reagan was a good, loyal Democrat for a long time.

As was said yesterday in the live-feed thread, "don't these assholes have their own hero's they can quote and quit borrowing ours?"

52 And while this is a good topic to be educated on, I think it isn't relative to an argument on whether Republicans are facists.

If you are actually having that argument, you have already ceded the battle on whatever policy debate this stemmed from and are now fighting over a straw man.

To me, the best response to these sorts of claims is:

"Ok, so your argument against my position on [x] has nothing to do with all the data and other evidence I present, but that I am a fascist. That's the weightiest bit of intellectual ammo you have in this debate?"

Don't get me wrong tho. I'm by no means perfect. I get really angry at being called a fascist. I think I have some deep-seeded Teutonic shame stemming from my genealogy that responds poorly to such accusations.

I remember once I was literally a non-apology away from starting a physical brawl in a Network Operation Center at a major Telecom over such an occurrence on 9/12.

53

christianies = christianity's

jeez what a day

54 That is a long standing myth. Both the Nazis AND the Communists were left wing, but I think you already knew that and are just being sarcastic

Correct

55

The bigger the German, the smaller the Speedo.

Shudder.

Memories of beaches in Thailand.

56 I saw a William L. Shirer quote earlier. For those of you who might not know, William L. Shirer wrote "the rise and fall of the third reich" which was an outstanding treatise on the subject. (William L. Shirer was THERE. He was also in the rail car when Germany surrendered in World War I.)

William L. Shirer makes the claim that the Nazis started out as a Homosexual Social club. I bet a lot of people didn't know that! 

57

I've had it.  Fuck the unions, all of them, private & public.

They make me sick with equating everything to Hilter.  Ignorant fucking idiots.  They insult me as a human being and a Jew with their willful ignorance.

58 "Of course, context is likely 100% lacking. I'm sure the ass that buys that doesn't know Reagan was a good, loyal Democrat for a long time."

Or that Reagan was a 'scab' during strikes and became a conservative after experiencing intimidation by unions.

59 Even if they cant actually find it, they'll justify it with "well, he *might* have said that, so it's true". To them it will be just as true as Halliburton being the evil corporate empire was before Koch replaced Halliburton. (And before Halliburton I think it was some thinktank in New York.)

Posted by: Erik at March 11, 2011 10:14 AM (EsIyr)

Fake but accurate

60 Did we violate Goodwin's law right off the bat?

Wikipedia sez: Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions. The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering genocide, propaganda, eugenics (racial superiority) or other mainstays of Nazi Germany, nor, more debatably, to discussion of other totalitarian regimes, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate.

61 Courage!

62 Oh and I finally got to the pull quote:

Those anti-elitist, stock market ending,child labor ending, public health promoting,, wealth confiscating, draft ending, secularist right wingers.

63 diogenes i thought it was specifically the ss that was gay.....

64

A recent discovery shows that while the swastika was flown and draped all across Nazi Germany, Hitler decorated his homes with Gadsen flags, a clear connection to the modern day Teabagger Party.

65 i thought it was specifically the ss that was gay..... Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 11, 2011 10:30 AM (eOXTH) Actually more so the SA

66 The bigger the German, the smaller the Speedo.

OMG, you've activated my PTSD from last year's vacation to Playa del Carmen. The single most repulsive person we saw anywhere down there was a huge pot-bellied German in a tiny speedo--with a mullet.

67 "We must eradicate the shameful practice of abortion. It is not merely evil, but evil in one of its most archetypal forms." -- Stuff Hitler Said, vol. V

68 Did we violate Goodwin's law right off the bat? No, Godwin was asking for it.

69

The latest quote-meme making the rounds (courtesy of the hard-hitting Daily Show) is Reagan talking about unions saying without them and collective bargaining, we don't have freedom.

Reagan was a former union president, too.  Back when Hollywood had a couple of gray cells to rub together.  So, yeah--CONTEXT.

70 We must get what we want by running across the state line.

71 Rats, #42 beat me to the Stuff!

72 Also, Reagan fired the air traffic controllers, so I'd say we have a little ying/yang situation going on.

73 A little easier to do that when you're ginning up for war, I'd imagine, but to today's leftists, military spending doesn't count as "stimulus".

Give them time and the right target -- they love war, just have different objectives.  The honest pacifist is eventually of no use to them; people are merely tools to use at a given moment.

74 "The Earned Income Tax Rate should not revert to Clinton Era Levels. It would retard the economic recovery." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Thoughts: Volume IV

75 66 The bigger the German, the smaller the Speedo.

OMG, you've activated my PTSD from last year's vacation to Playa del Carmen. The single most repulsive person we saw anywhere down there was a huge pot-bellied German in a tiny speedo--with a mullet.


OMG, Part Deux!  Same experience on my cruise last November. They have no sense of modesty.

76 I argue about the Nazis from time to time, and I often score points by writing out their name like this:

NAtionalsoZIalistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. In English;
National Socialist German Workers Party.

Here's another bit of info of which I think most people are unaware. The Reason the Nazi flag has a red background is because the early Nazi party assimilated members of the local communist party and re-used their hammer and sickle flags by sewing swastikas over them.


I have a reference for this information if anyone wants it.

77 Dissent is patriotic!

78 ...William L. Shirer makes the claim that the Nazis started out as a Homosexual Social club. I bet a lot of people didn't know that! Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 11, 2011 10:28 AM (/G5LI) Not surprising considering the proclivities of J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson. Explains Barney Frank as well.

79 we must fight to keep from paying anything for our insurance and retirement.

80 "I fully support drilling in ANWR and on the Gulf Coast. There should be no drilling restrictions." Adolf Hitler:  Second Stanza of the Horst Wessel Song.

81

Oh, and contrary to the repeated assertions of Nazi Germany being a Christian nation:

I'm so sick of hearing that lie.  There was a recent special on the History channel, I believe, that went into great detail on Hitler's contempt for Christianity, and his regime's interest in and promotion of occult practices and ancient Teutonic paganism. 

82
Wikipedia sez: Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions. The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering genocide, propaganda, eugenics (racial superiority) or other mainstays of Nazi Germany, nor, more debatably, to discussion of other totalitarian regimes, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate.

Posted by: HeidekrautRadieschen at March 11, 2011 10:30 AM (nAOMZ)

Horray! We are context appropriate!

83 "Ok, so your argument against my position on [x] has nothing to do with all the data and other evidence I present, but that I am a fascist. That's the weightiest bit of intellectual ammo you have in this debate?"

I've noticed the people who make that sort of argument have no idea that the word "fascism" has an actual meaning, and that meaning is not "people and ideas I don't like."

Meanwhile, they think actual acts of fascism (Obamacare, banning Edison bulbs so everyone is forced to buy GE's mercury bulbs, etc) are awesome.

84 We have to remember that anyone fighting Socialism is dubbed Fascist. Why we accept these Marxist/Stalinist terms is beyond me.

Posted by: Zakn at March 11, 2011 10:24 AM (zyaZ1)

Prior to WWII, Mussolini and Hitler were both seen as "progressives". One version of Cole Porter's classic "You're the top" praises Mussolini in fact.

Once WWII started, the hardcore left generally opposed Churchill and the Allies as Germanophobic warmongers.

Of course this all changed when Hitler broke his alliance with Stalin. Suddenly the Axis were the worst enemies of the Left - and fascism was suddenly to the right of say Churchill the day after Barbarossa.

The Soviets and their allies in the west made great use of this notion and would continue it after the war, and the rest is history.

85 A "friend" on Facebook just put up a quote from Ronald Reagan: "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." What do I say to the fuckwit before I defriend her?

86

William L. Shirer makes the claim that the Nazis started out as a Homosexual Social club. I bet a lot of people didn't know that!
Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 11, 2011 10:28 AM (/G5LI)

no he doesn't. I've read that book two times(it is one of my favorite along with The Collaspe of the Third Republic, Shirer is a good writer).

He points out that many of the people in the early party were sexual deviants, criminals, and thugs, so obviously there would be some gays among them, Ernst Roehm being the most notible.

I do not recall him making the claim that they were a gay social club ever. It would be funny if it were true but I don't recall catching that.

87 OT You will get a real kick out of this youtube video.
 
Way to go IN GOPers; liberals hate being mocked more than anything (other than working perhaps).
 
Well played.

88

 A "friend" on Facebook just put up a quote from Ronald Reagan: "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." What do I say to the fuckwit before I defriend her?

He was probably referecing the Polish solidarity movement.

Tell your friend that there is a difference between public and private unions, and that Wisconsin didn't end CBA, they only ended CBA for benefits

89 i'm going to write a book..."every gut feeling i ever had about nazi's, commies and liberals was confirmed by glenn beck"

90 ben.....you tell her you are defriending her because she is a fwit

91 What do I say to the fuckwit before I defriend her?

Private vs Public Sector unions.

"The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.  All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations.

****

Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable."

92 I'm about to fire 3 facebook "friends"

93 63 diogenes

i thought it was specifically the ss that was gay.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at March 11, 2011 10:30 AM (eOXTH)

Not according to the Experts. The WHOLE THING started off as a gay social club. There is actually a book that has been written regarding this called "The Pink Swastika."

94 "We must eradicate the shameful practice of abortion. It is not merely evil, but evil in one of its most archetypal forms." -- Stuff Hitler Said, vol. V

Don't forget the next sentence:  "But if--and only if!--the mother and father are pure.  If a woman has fornicated with Jew scum, induce labor and stab the baby in the neck with a scissors."

95 sorry that was for barb not ben

96 I am in no way saying the NAZI's were christian(although many individual germans remained christian), but the Jew hatred endemic in European society definately comes from medieval christianities scape goating of the jews for everything.

Actually, I have to disagree with that statement.

Germany, prior to WWI was notably religiously tolerant, and arguably the most favorable country in Europe to Jews.

The national socialists scapegoated Jews for their loss in WWI, and then for Germany's linger economic problems. They would build a pseudo-scientific racial theory, along with the rest of the progressives, that would allow them to claim their racial hierarchy was somehow bound in science.

So the origin of NAZI antisemitism does not lie with medieval bigotry.

The ties with German neo-paganism are interesting, but were not the motivating force behind Hitler and his regime in this regard.

97 Yea I knew your dumb ass in HS. But you are industrial level stupid

98

Not according to the Experts. The WHOLE THING started off as a gay social club. There is actually a book that has been written regarding this called "The Pink Swastika."

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 11, 2011 10:42 AM (/G5LI)

Hey, do you like movies about gladiators?

99 18-1 has a great take down,  The Nazi's were a secular front.

100

I'm about to fire 3 facebook "friends"

Posted by: Zakn at March 11, 2011 10:42 AM (zyaZ1)

 

I just went ahead and deactiviated my account a couple days ago. The retards really came out of the woodwork the past couple weeks.

 

101
Not surprising considering the proclivities of J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson. Explains Barney Frank as well.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 11, 2011 10:36 AM (UlUS4)

I've read that the accusations against J. Edgar Hoover were fabricated character assassinations, and that none of it is true. Basically it was people who hated him thinking they would get revenge (after he died) by accusing him of being a cross dresser/queer. 

J. Edgar was Hated TREMENDOUSLY by the left while he lived.

102 And Clinton was happy to make the removal of Saddam official U.S. policy.

103 Thank you! I have no patience for socialists anymore.

104 It's totally UNTRUE that we made Hitler Man of the Year in '39.

105 @97 Just now getting around to that?  The Giffords thing pretty much sealed the fate of all my libtard friends on facebook.

106 By the way, Hitler originally wanted to call the National Socialist German Workers' Party the Social Revolutionary Party - he was talked out of it by Rudolf Jung

Sounds just like the Constitution Party doesn't it?

107

A "friend" on Facebook just put up a quote from Ronald Reagan: "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." What do I say to the fuckwit before I defriend her?

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at March 11, 2011 10:37 AM (MyByM)

Point out Reagan was referring to private sector unions and remind her that he fired all the PATCO workers who went on strike.

108 phoenixgirl, I would say I was defriending her because she was a fwit, but she's also friends with about 5 other people I know. We all went to the same college. I'm not ready to offend all those other people... yet.

109 And we do not have altzheimers.

110 Gee, a lot of the description smacks of "Social Welfare" too.

111

I do not recall him making the claim that they were a gay social club ever. It would be funny if it were true but I don't recall catching that.

Posted by: Ben at March 11, 2011 10:38 AM (wuv1c)

I read that book about 20 years ago, and I was surprised when I ran across that claim. It is only touched upon briefly, but I do remember it being in there. I posted an excerpt on it on FIDONET back in 1991. (or so.)

Now I also posted excerpts from another book ("Leftism revisited" by Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn,) so it is possible I have one book mixed up with the other.  Even so, one or the other of these experts mentions it. 

You might look through the front of the book, because i'm pretty sure it was in "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich."

112 My wifes family is in Wi. They have completely divided over this shit. I talking about civil war vitriol. This is just going to get uglier.

113

72 I think it's a matter of focus and degree: I don't think anyone (anyone who values Americanism) would begrudge workers collectively bargaining for better working conditions, a living wage, that sort of thing and their freedom to go on strike -- sometimes the workers are justified in doing those things and they should have the freedom to do so (I would call it unionization from the bottom up, not the top down, which is the problem now imho).  There is however, a very big difference between a bunch of coal miners protesting that they want some better safety regs and a bunch of teachers who already make a pretty good salary screaming about having to pay in more to their retirement/health benefits (which would still be lower than a comparable private sector worker).

As I have stated: if the teachers had struck over working conditions (like class size, discipline enforcement -- all the things that have made teaching a bit crappy in the last 20 years), had requested an end to mainstreaming, that sort of thing -- and had conducted themselves like adults, I probably would have supported them.  But their union is not interested in those things; it's interested in money -- which tells me that the union is not representing its workers anyway.  There is the difference, for me at least.

114 Fox reporting that WI gov has signed bill removing collective bargaining 'rights" for gov workers in WI.

115

Visconsin vill be mine vindication!  Und ven I say Visconsin, I am meanink Scott Valker's Visconsin, jarwhol?

Shit I Wish I Had Said: A. Hitler

 

Und in solidarity with our little sub-human Japanese brothers, the Fatherland declares war on the United States!

Shit I Really Wish I Had Not Said: A. Hitler

116

RE: Facebook

I sympathize.  I have a bunch of relatives who are liberals, including my sister and a cousing who is the rep for the local chapter of AFGE.  The pro-union bullshit and anti Republican bullshit flows freely.  Unfortunately, FB is the primary way that I communicate with family while I'm over here, so I can't cut them off.

117 i know barb....my husband is on facebook....he is friends with my friends as well as his....i won't join because i would end up defriending most of them....

118 113, well said, I agree.

119

I'm so sick of hearing that lie.  There was a recent special on the History channel, I believe, that went into great detail on Hitler's contempt for Christianity, and his regime's interest in and promotion of occult practices and ancient Teutonic paganism. 

Posted by: Insomniac at March 11, 2011 10:36 AM (DrWcr)

To be clear there were two general views in the NAZI party on Christianity.

The NAZI neo-pagans certainly thought Christianity had made Germany weak. But the more important element were the "scientific atheists" like Bormann. They wanted to replace Christianity with "positive Christianity" which would essentially worship the State instead of Christ.

Had they won WWII the National Socialists would have crushed the Christian churches in Germany. Look for example at their constant conflict with Archbishop Galen. In fact there was some debate about whether they should declare war on the churches before the rest of Europe - look at the debate over "euthanasia" prior to WWII in Germany...

120 Walker Signs Bill.

Now the big question is whether they can get the hippie smell out of the capitol.

121 Ah, heck - I meant it smacks of "Social Justice."  Sheesh on me...

122

Sometimes I think Hitler is invoked over and over because for many people he's the only major historical figure they can name.  But they almost never note he was a vegetarian artist who liked dogs. 

If only the art school in Vienna hadn't nitpicked his inability to draw the human figure...  If you're looking for a reason the entire world was embroiled in tragedy for years, look no further than Hitler not getting into art school.  Seriously.  

Defund the NEA before they create another Hitler! 

123 How do you really go up against a crowd such as those that turned out in Madison.  Really?

Consider who was there, the various groups, all linking arms in noisy protest.  Then consider how difficult it is for the right, the conservatives, whatever independent people in the middle are against the leftish PEU programs, and others who may be on our side, to organize against this.

The unions have their phone chains.  They have a war chest for paying for things like tee shirts, signs, busses.  They have a chain of command.  Command and control.  They have all the stupid college kids to support them, and to get that all started, all you need is to spark it.  The internet and the cell phone nets do the rest.

How do we counter all that?

Do you have a contact list of beefy guys willing to shout and do chest-bumps with SIEU thugs?  Is your network of contacts large enough to fill a few busloads?

124 of course, they may defriend me first.....once they see my links....

125 J. Edgar was Hated TREMENDOUSLY by the left while he lived. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at March 11, 2011 10:45 AM (/G5LI) Okay, but why didn't FDR can him?

126

Do you have a contact list of beefy guys willing to shout and do chest-bumps with SIEU thugs?  Is your network of contacts large enough to fill a few busloads

to be fair, the protests in Madison weren't any larger than any  major tea party rally.

If that is the best they can do, then i think we've won.

127 Gee, a lot of the description smacks of "Social Welfare" too.

Posted by: FE at March 11, 2011 10:52 AM (LAPdd)

The modern welfare state was invented by Otto Von Bismark. Given the choice between giving political rights to the middle class or hand outs to the lower class, the German aristocracy found the latter to be preferable and killed what could have become the rise of a German open society in the mid-1800s.

The intent of a welfare state is to use the funds of the middle class to keep an aristocracy in place over it.

128 What do I say to the fuckwit before I defriend her?
Quote back FDR saying that unions have no place in the public sector.

129

Walker Signs Bill.

Now the big question is whether they can get the hippie smell out of the capitol

It was probably insensitive of him to sign it today with what's going on in Japan.

130

If only the art school in Vienna hadn't nitpicked his inability to draw the human figure...  If you're looking for a reason the entire world was embroiled in tragedy for years, look no further than Hitler not getting into art school.  Seriously.  

Defund the NEA before they create another Hitler! 

Posted by: Beagle at March 11, 2011 10:56 AM (sOtz/)

Of course in that case WWII starts when Stalin invades Poland in the early 1950s...

131

What do I say to the fuckwit before I defriend her?
Quote back FDR saying that unions have no place in the public sector.

You could also tell her that once in existance, one of the goals of unions was to keep black out.

132 Posted by: 18-1 at March 11, 2011 10:43 AM (7BU4a) Sorry to disagree here. Despite periods here and there of tolerance, Europe as a whole was viciously anti-semitic, based on Christian antipathy. Hitler and the other race crackpots merely exploited this 2,000 year hatred and dressed it up in modern, pseudo-scientific terms. The Jews were legally 2nd class citizens until a controversial vote in the late 1800's gave them full rights. The Holocaust was not an isolated incident, but merely the culmination of 2,000 plus years of hatred. I suggest reading "Hitler's Willing Executioners" by Danial Jonah Goldhagen for a definitive and scholarly explanation.

133
Okay, but why didn't FDR can him?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 11, 2011 10:57 AM (UlUS4)

He had his practical uses. Also, who knew what information he could get his hands on and "leak" to the appropriate parties?

J. Edgar Hoover was FEARED by just about everyone, and I daresay probably FDR as well. 

Interestingly, J. Edgar Hoover cautioned FDR against putting Japanese Americans in relocation camps. He told FDR that his agency could handle any problems that Japanese sympathizers might cause. FDR ignored his advice.

134

 

Ugh, I've stopped going on FB because of the pro-goon repostings by some "friends".  It's only a couple of people, but since their "orders from headquarters" are to post and repost everything, and make all sorts of stupid stuff their photo, it's a major buzzkill to even log on.

135 "We must close union offices companies unfriendly to Democrats, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers employers salaries and take away their right to strike hire whom they want regardless of race or union affiliation."

Fixed that for you, Adolf ol' buddy! Hey, let's do a few rounds of golf sometime!

136 I suggest reading "Hitler's Willing Executioners" by Danial Jonah Goldhagen for a definitive and scholarly explanation.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 11, 2011 11:02 AM (UlUS4)

You realize that book has been *completely* debunked, right?

To quote wiki;

The overwhelming majority of American scholars have dismissed the book as racist, unscholarly and irresponsible. Its "mostly scathing" reception among historians,[2][32][33][34][35] who were unusually vocal in condemning it as ahistorical and,[36] in the words of Holocaust historian Raul Hilberg, "totally wrong about everything" and "worthless".[3][4] The pre-eminent Jewish-American historian Fritz Stern denounced the book as unscholarly and full of racist Germanophobia.[37]

137 what? no live thread of totous regarding energy?

138

The intent of a welfare state is to use the funds of the middle class to keep an aristocracy in place over it.

Posted by: 18-1 at March 11, 2011 10:58 AM (7BU4a)

That is astonishingly insightful! (Of course that is also the conclusion i've come to over a decade ago.)  

People, what a lot of you may not realize is Human history has been down this road many times in the past. The movement we call "Liberalism" or "Progressivism" is really an attempt to reestablish an Aristocracy of rulers who run things, and a nation of peasants who do their bidding.

Did you ever notice how many rules and laws are impediments for moving up in income, but not impediments at all to people who are already wealthy? 

The greatest threat to the aristocracy is the middle class, for they are independent enough to not obey their would be rulers.

139

If only the art school in Vienna hadn't nitpicked his inability to draw the human figure...

This underlines the necessity of non-judgement on our school age children to help protect their self esteem

/sarc

140

123 Well, for one thing, you have to realize that crowd isn't so much representative of teachers as of their union.  How many of the outlying, smaller communities have their teachers there as opposed to back in the classroom? (Madison is a different story -- the place is insanely bolshevik; I think even the dogs and cats are trotskyites there).  Most of the people protesting are professional rabble rousers -- and they are not there for anything other than "the cause".

And as I mentioned: for many teachers they don't feel their union actually works for them as much as they work for their union.  Granted, there are the union toadies and the people who just don't think about it because blindly following is so much easier, but there are others who do not fit that category at all.

What if the actual workers themselves were offered a voice, rather than their union?

141

The Hitler plan smells like the democrat/union ultimate plan.

 

142 I have a blank facebook account that I only use when I need it to sign into something. I refuse to 1. Listen to the fuckwits 2. Get disgusted with everyone from my past 3. Deal with people who I don't desire to deal with. If I desired to deal with them, I would have a relationship outside of facebook 4. Security issues 5. May keep me out of the camps for a little while.

143 free healthcare or we break crystal.

144 Okay, but why didn't FDR can him?

Hoover had a lot of dirt on the various Commies, drunks, and pickle puffers (back when those qualities were a negative for a Democrat) in the FDR administration. Plus, the FBI actually did a pretty good job of counterintelligence against Nazi spy efforts in the continental US.

145
"Sorry to disagree here. Despite periods here and there of tolerance, Europe as a whole was viciously anti-semitic, based on Christian antipathy."

It may have started as Christian antipathy going back to Luther and earlier, but by the 19th century anti-Semitism had philosophical underpinnings separate from Christianity. 

By the time of the Nazis, hatred of the Jewish people was tied firmly to Eugenics.  The Jews were not a religion, but a race.

146 but since their "orders from headquarters" are to post and repost everything, and make all sorts of stupid stuff their photo, it's a major buzzkill to even log on.

I've hidden those twats that can't be defriended--like my brother--from my newsfeed. If he wants to start up the "Christofascist teabagger" shit with me, he's gotta post it on my wall. If the "people I knew in meatspace 20 years ago who are now Commie twatbots" even noticed I defriended them, they never said anything.  Heh.

147 I'd love to see an expose on who these protester crowds are actually made up of. I believe we would find that it's the same crew that protest the world bank, etc. They are professionals and they are communists. Sounds conspiracy theorist? TS.

148 the Jew hatred endemic in European society definately comes from medieval christianities scape goating of the jews for everything

Nope.

Medieval Christianity's scapegoating of the Jews was an example of Europeans' endemic Jew hatred, which preceded "medieval Christianity" by several centuries, and continues several centuries later, in the total absence of European civic religion.

Europe is full of assholes. That's why we're not there.

149 This is one of the things that kills me. The left is obsessed with the notion that NAZIism was somehow pro-Christianity.

I have heard many leftist atheists blame religion for ALL wars.  They have bent history so much to their own means that they don't even know (or intentionally ignore the fact) that Hitler, Stalin and Mao are all ATHEISTS.

150 Europe is full of assholes. That's why we're not there. There is a novel in that sentence.

151 Posted by: 18-1 at March 11, 2011 11:06 AM (7BU4a) First of all, I take anything on Wikipedia with a large grain of salt. THAT SAID... I have a tremendous amount of respect for Raul Hilberg so I will have to look further into this. That does not however mean that I do not stand by my statements regarding the historical roots of anti-semitism in Europe being based on Christian antipathy. Thanks for that info on Goldhagen though and I will investigate further. I have an open mind - therefore I am not liberal.

152 i thought it was specifically the ss that was gay.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl

It was the predecessor of the SS, the SA, that had a large gay contingent.(including SA leader Ernst Röhm)

Under Röhm, the SA also often took the side of workers in strikes and other labour disputes, attacking strikebreakers and supporting picket lines. SA intimidation contributed to the rise of the Nazis, breaking down the electoral activity of the communist parties. However, the SA's reputation for street violence and heavy drinking was a hindrance.

Another hindrance was the more or less open homosexuality of Röhm and other SA leaders such as his deputy Edmund Heines.

153 It is amazing how quickly those pseudo quotes, usually from Hitler, pop up.  I remember back in the Nixon years there was one about the streets being filled with revolutionaries.  Even had a date attached to it.  As with this one, it never happened, though you could find some slightly similar sayings.  However, once was out, you could never convince someone that it was false, since they saw it in the newspaper or some such. 

154

 A "friend" on Facebook just put up a quote from Ronald Reagan: "Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." What do I say to the fuckwit before I defriend her?

----------------------------------------------------------

Ronald Reagan was a former Democrat.  He made great fun of himself about it too.  There's a famous quip Reagan had at a press conference as President.  Sam Donaldson asked Reagan if he bore any responsibility for the economy being in the tank.  Reagan said: "Yes, because for many years I was a Democrat."  It was a great comeback.  I am sure you can find it on YouTube.

155

So weird that the Assyrians, Babylonians, Greeks, Islamists, and Romans were anti-semitic due to Christian antipathy. If Obama wants to talk about being "the other" here's a good example.

 

156 I knew the quote was fake when I first saw it. If you want to abolish any competing power, you don't also say, we should reduce their salaries. You just do it without any need to say "we must"

157

Even the dems including Reagan when he was deluded were referring to private sector unions not public sector unions. duh.

158

As for the scapegoating of Jews in Europe (medieval and modern) I think it's a very complex thing involving concepts of racism (which is illogical -- especially when you review the data for intermarriage prior to WWII, most especially in Germany, and when you factor in things besides DNA into the equation of just what exactly makes up a "race" -- even at the level of DNA it's a bit impossible); it also involves religion.  I think it is a situation of the "Other" (for both groups) that are so close yet so far apart that it is impossible for either one to take a break from the fault line imho, and fault lines that constantly rub together heat up and blow ever so often, quite spectacularly.

It also involves society and class structure -- let's face it, the elites of Europe were very adept at playing off the Jews and their peasants against each other...and sponging their grand living off of both; it contains the first two factors and likely is the root cause of all the rancor.

159 "Hitler, Stalin and Mao are all ATHEISTS."

Heh.  You should have seen the looks on their faces when their first got down here.

AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!1!!

160

 

Reagan said: "Yes, because for many years I was a Democrat."  It was a great comeback.  I am sure you can find it on YouTube.

Posted by: Shoppy at March 11, 2011 11:16 AM (u2rWt)

This one

161 I said some pretty prescient stuff about Charlie Sheen, too.

162 By the time of the Nazis, hatred of the Jewish people was tied firmly to Eugenics.  The Jews were not a religion, but a race.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at March 11, 2011 11:11 AM (TpXEI)

Right.  Racism was Science! in the Nineteenth and early Twentieth Century.  That's when they created the evolutionary charts with apes walking forward into tribal people and then 'modern' (white European) man.  Of course tribal people are modern man.  

There's a belief that racism has always been a feature of humanity.  But it's actually a modern construct.  Obviously one group of people have often disliked or looked down on the 'other' group of people, but the racist rationale took hold when embraced by so-called scientists.  Anti-abolitionism was a big driver of racism in the United States.  When African slaves were first imported -- from the Muslim slavers in Africa -- the take was Africans were very capable.  Only when abolitionism gained force did the racist justifications develop.

Saudi Arabia got rid of slavery (but not really) in 1964.  Yes, 19.   If Arab Muslims hadn't been selling slaves in those days, I wonder if European-New World-African slavery would have existed?  The Spaniards using Native American slaves excepted.          

163 OT: the Fox News tsunami coverage has been awful, but this Jenna Lee anchorette is pretty hot.

164 162 I said some pretty prescient stuff about Charlie Sheen, too. Posted by: Adolph Hitler at March 11, 2011 11:27 AM (mEyVv) Charlie Sheeny. Isn't that anti-semitic? (and what the hell is a "sheeny" anyway. I'm a Joo and have no idea)

165 Charlie Sheeny. Isn't that anti-semitic? (and what the hell is a "sheeny" anyway. I'm a Joo and have no idea)

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 11, 2011 11:31 AM (UlUS4)

It is anti-Semitic.  But I'm still winning!

166 "Charlie Sheeny. Isn't that anti-semitic? (and what the hell is a "sheeny" anyway. I'm a Joo and have no idea."

Leave Adolph alone!1!

167 "This Obama chap is a bit of an empty suit, amiright ?"

Stuff Zombie Hitler Said, vol. 1

168 Hitler did take everybody's guns too, so he wasn't all bad

169 Teachers who cannot explain the difference between Hitler and FDR = FAIL (your tax dollars at work)

170 Please pass the rack of lamb.

171 Hitler had a problem with Jewish settlements, which is alright by me.

~ Barack Hussein Obama

172 Putting communism and fascism ( including National Socialists ) on opposite ends of a 'elft-right' continuum is a favorite canard of the Left

Nazis were obviously extreme leftists who dressed up in some of the conservative's clothes--just as they used red ( the color of revolution ) for their flag and armbands while imitating the tactics of the Left to attract disaffected lefties

They wanted to 'transform' German society -- sound familiar?
They offered 'hope and change'  -- sound familiar?
They wanted to create a new consciousness while destroying the 'old order'

undsoweiter ( and so on )

173 As for the scapegoating of Jews in Europe (medieval and modern) I think it's a very complex thing involving concepts of racism (which is illogical -- especially when you review the data for intermarriage prior to WWII, most especially in Germany, and when you factor in things besides DNA into the equation of just what exactly makes up a "race" -- even at the level of DNA it's a bit impossible); it also involves religion.

Nice of the Pope to come out and say it was because Catholics blamed Jews for killing Jesus. Yeah, that's the ticket.

But to an extent, it is religion. Like when they start making fun of yours and slyly downplaying theirs. "It's a cultural thing pertaining to a handful of God's own chosen that would just go over your head. Btw, how fucking stupid are you? You're just some weather-worshiping pagan and science denier." Jews have probably been doing this shit since the beginning of time. Personally, I think they had the Inquisition coming to them. Conspire with Muslims to overthrow our government? You were asked nicely to go.

174 It's a hate crime to use hate facts against liberals. Let them have their own version of history, aihgt? They no so much that isn't so, and if you take that away from them, how will they manage to act so smug all the time?

175 That said, I love Israel. If they can keep it, they have a home of their own. Europea will always be antisemitic, because human nature is stubborn. People hate to admit they're wrong. The jihadis are outsourced labor, filling a void left by the Nazis. Nothing has changed in the world.

176 174 176 What the hell are you gibbering about?

177 Stalin outlawed abortion!!1

178 What the hell are you gibbering about?

Jews have always had a chip on their shoulder, because they never had a home. Israel allows them to defend themselves and preserve their culture. Which is important, because they don't always mix well. The Holocaust was indefensible, but they asked for the Inquisition. They're even inviting another by sucking up to the Muslims once again. Now they have some skin in the game, so let's hope the outcome is different this time.

179 Thanks for that info on Goldhagen though and I will investigate further. I have an open mind - therefore I am not liberal.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 11, 2011 11:14 AM (UlUS4)

I used wiki because it had a reasonable summation of the weight the book has - you can find a lot of debate about the book online, but it is generally accorded the same level of respect as Arming America. Though most reviewers would say Goldhagen was more sloppy and a leftwing doctrinaire then a pure fabricator like Bellesiles.

180

J.J. Sefton,

You might want to look up a book called Ordinary Men,  by Christopher Browning which in large part is a refutation of Goldhagen's thesis using the same source material that he used.

181 I always comment when these things die, so, to sum up:

1) As we all know, the Nazis nationalized and mandated, not eliminated, unionization. Like Soviet Russia did.

2) 4rc makes a good point, the quote is pretty much a caricature of opposition to public-sector unions, it matches union propaganda like a puzzle piece.

3) Of *course* it's a transparent lie, like all the left's attempts to disown National Socialists as left-wing property. And of course the MBM will cooperate, and your friendly neighborhood leftist will continue the meme after you demand and fail to obtain proof, or even disprove, their memes, because LEFTISTS LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING.

Selected not elected (Gore took the elections to the court to overturn them, not Bush), Saddam had no WMDs (he used them in war and against his own people, we recovered scores of tons of WMDs, the UN complained that we took them, and tons of yellowcake were taken to Syria and likely later destroyed by Israel (thanks!) ).

182 In Soviet Union unions man date you, homos!

183 Ther Nazi Party was a union! National Socialist German Workers' Party

184

Goldhagen's book has not been "debunked".  These are claims from people who simply will not accept, for purely emotional reasons, that Goldhagen's central theses that the Holocaust was not carried out by a relatively small number of "Nazis", but willingly and enthusiastically by many people who were no more or less "Nazifed" than anyone else in Germany, to be true.  They falsely view this thesis as an indictment of the German character, a claim Goldhagen does not make, and has rebutted. 

The claims of "Germanophobia" are absurd.  If anything, those making that claim are "Germanophiles", don't like the implications of what he is saying, and are reacting to it in a purely emotional way.

Ordinary Men

"Browning argued that the men of Unit 101 killed out of a basic obedience to authority and peer pressure"

Garbage.  The circus-like atmosphere, laughter, and gratuitous humiliation and degradtion they amused themselves with while engaging in mass murder show this to be a bunch of baloney.  Just another of the "they were just following orders" apologists.