December 17, 2011

The Politics and Policy of Cap and Trade, 2008-2010 [Truman North]
— Open Blogger

In light of our current consternation over the intractability and bloody-mindedness of Congressional Democrats, and the added evidence of a Great Climate Change Swindle coming from the Climategate II email set, here's a longish article discussing 2009's failed effort to ram through cap and trade.


Overview
Since the 1970s at least, organized opponents of entrepreneurs and industrialists who would utilize natural resources for industrial and economic expansion have pointed to the negative externalities of such expansion on the air, water, and several peoples of the world as reason to restrict and even stop the industrial processes which use and damage the natural environment.

In April of 2009, hearings started on the draft of the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 (ACES) , a bill which would make it more expensive to produce domestic fossil fuel-based energy by placing a tax on carbon-based compounds which appear as unavoidable by-products of producing fossil energy. In June, the bill was passed by the House of 111th Congress, 219-212. Due to political circumstances, it was never taken up by the full Senate, and therefore died ignobly at the expiration of the term of the 111th.

Ironically, the bill was not necessarily American, having been largely based upon the EUÂ’s Emission Trading Scheme; it was not about clean energy, but rather about restricting our access to energy the bill deemed to be dirty and transferring large amounts of wealth; and it was not about security, since the result would necessarily be the increased use of foreign energy sources. It was, however, an Act, and did appear first in 2009.

At the heart of the legislation is a cap-and-trade system that sets a limit on overall emissions of heat-trapping gases by government fiat while allowing utilities, manufacturers and other emitters to trade pollution permits or allowances among themselves. The cap would grow tighter over the years, pushing up the price of emissions and presumably driving industry to find cleaner ways of making energy.

The Problem: Under-regulated Growth of Pollution Emission
The underlying premise for establishing a carbon credit exchange and other pollution caps established by government fiat is evidence that the Earth is warming, and furthermore, at least some element of that warming has to do with emissions from industrial processes performed by human beings through the burning of so-called fossil fuels: primarily coal, oil, and natural gas. This additional warming is theorized to do harm to the environment and therefore to people, plants and animals when compounded over a long time period (several centuries at least). One of the chemicals released by the burning of fossil fuels is carbon dioxide, a vital component to the continued existence of all plant life, which occurs naturally in small amounts in the atmosphere. Although carbon dioxide is a minimal component to the atmosphere, and a minimal contributor to the overall greenhouse effect which keeps our world at habitable temperatures, and that the amount of carbon dioxide that human beings emit in proportion to the overall carbon dioxide level in the atmosphere, those scientists who believe that the Earth’s climate is being impacted by humans point to this carbon dioxide molecule as the culprit. Therefore, the modifier “carbon” in the context of cap and trade issues really refers to carbon dioxide, a natural and relatively beneficial chemical necessary for the climactic and biological processes we see at work around us.

According to proponents of the bill, America must lead the world in showing that we are good stewards of the environment. ACES would force electric companies to encourage people to reduce their use of electricity in order to produce less carbon dioxide. In order to do so the Environmental Protection Agency has already passed regulations that cap the amount of carbon dioxide that the power companies can emit. Under ACES, if these companies exceed the emissions caps on carbon dioxide, they must purchase carbon credits to offset their carbon dioxide emissions.

The Policy Decision: Regulating Carbon Emissions Directly Through Government-Created Markets
These carbon credits can be purchased from companies, countries, or other investors who have already purchased them. These carbon credits are initially available for purchase from a Carbon Exchange Company, established by the government under the auspices of this bill. If a company or other entity emits less carbon dioxide than they are allowed under law, this excess carbon can be sold in the form of credits available on the open market.

Also, in some circumstances, carbon credits will be given to underdeveloped countries for free if they promise not to develop their land and industry. (A side effect of this would be to keep underdeveloped countries from achieving prosperity and keeping them dependent upon the West for international aid.) For example, Indonesia has been promised billions of dollars if they stop the increase in productive use of their countryÂ’s natural resources. Companies which produce too much carbon dioxide will have to purchase carbon credits from the nation of Indonesia for real cash.

The Carbon Exchange, a public-private partnership, holds these credits for carbon investors and charges a transaction fee for trades. Certainly this is tantamount to plucking money out of “thin air!”

If cap and trade passed, this money from thin air would come indirectly from energy consumers: power companies would pass the cost of acquiring necessary carbon credits on to the consumer. Unfortunately, this does not actually reduce carbon dioxide emissions. It only transfers some money from consumers of electricity to carbon under-producers and a percentage for the Carbon Exchange for facilitating the transaction.

Although the scheme works most transparently in the case of power companies, every industry which uses electricity will also have to pay this consumption tax, and pass that cost on to the consumer. Prices of all goods would necessarily skyrocket, as every good produced requires some energy to make or transport to market.

So, since energy costs would increase, people would use less electricity. If they use less electricity, then the power companies would make less profit.

Additionally, power companies would be compelled by ACES to use a higher percentage of so-called “renewable energy” such as wind and solar. These sources produce far less energy per dollar than fossil energy does, shrinking the power company’s margin even further (if it is economically feasible to do so at all). Electricity generated from wind and solar can cost up to five times as much as that produced from coal and oil.

So how can a power company that seeks to stay in business encourage its customers to use less energy when it will cost them much more to produce it? The answer lies within the cap and trade bill again. There is a provision within ACES which provides for the “decoupling” of the production of energy, the stated purpose of a power company, from the company’s profits. Basically, if the electric company encourages people to use less energy, thereby lowering their profits, they would be able to unilaterally raise their rates in order to achieve the same profit margin as they had enjoyed before ACES.

This means electricity will be even more expensive than it would have otherwise been with only the carbon credit scheme and the government mandates to generate more energy from renewable sources. Consumers like you and me will pay the same amount (or more) for the privilege of using less electricity!

In addition to the devastating economic effects of cap and trade, it would likely lead to the same conditions that caused the housing bubble of a few years ago by “providing financial incentives to the federally funded metropolitan planning organizations to shift transportation resources and passengers away from automobiles to public transit and forms of non-motorized transportation such as walking and bicycles. The bill further suggests that these be accomplished through “zoning and other land use regulations” that lead to a more crowded living environment. In turn, these communities of higher population density would be more amenable to forms of transportation common in the decades prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine.” In short, such a bill would “de-develop” suburbs and exurbs since commuters would no longer be able to get to work or civic activities as easily.

Cap-and-trade measures would drive up fossil energy prices, and the results for agriculture (among other sectors) would be severe. The current recession means people are driving less, people are flying less, and companies are pumping out less carbon dioxide because people are simply buying less. The trade off for reduced carbon dioxide emissions is reduced economic activity – or an economy operating well under its potential. Heritage presented good evidence that cap and trade schemes are a universal and regressive tax which would retard economic growth.

Reports the New York Times: “The bill was freighted with hundreds of pages of special-interest favors, even as environmentalists lamented that its greenhouse-gas reduction targets had been whittled down."

Another nail in the cap and trade coffin is, like any large governmental program, it is subject to meddling through crony capitalism and interest-group lobbying. Robert Eschelman interviewed an expert for The Nation in late 2009 who seriously suggests that the only way to keep people from polluting is to tear down the neo-liberal capitalist system and instate something more primitive.

The Politics of Cap and Trade
As of June 2, 2009, even many environmentalists had given up on the bill. It is truly a monstrosity: it would cost consumers plenty, while doing little to reduce global temperatures. But the legislation had something far more important for legislators and special interests alike. It was a pork-fest that wouldn't quit.

Furthermore, in late 2009, a hacker who accessed the databases at East Anglia University, releasing a package of emails from leading climate change scientists (alternatively, it may have been a hacker who accessed their databases), apparently indicating that they were doctoring their reporting to make anthropogenic global warming appear more serious than it is, or possibly hiding the fact that it is not happening at all. Whatever side of the AGW debate one is on, it is clear that the science, formerly declared "settled," was in serious question. James Dellingpole gives a damning critique of Climategate: Manipulation of evidence; Private doubts about whether the world really is heating up; Suppression of evidence; Fantasies of violence against prominent Climate Skeptic scientists; Attempts to disguise the inconvenient truth of the Medieval Warm Period (MWP); and a long series of communications discussing how best to squeeze dissenting scientists out of the peer review process. As the 111th Congress drew to a close, fewer Americans than ever believed in the existence of significant anthropogenic global warming or the necessity of legislation combating it. ("Fewer Americans See Solid Evidence of Global Warming." Pew Research Center. 22 Oct. 2009). Many of the findings of the UN's IPCC were informed by faulty data and unsubstantiated opinion. Senators who had already made several controversial votes on the expansion of the government sought to avoid the issue entirely.

Analysis of the economic impact of Waxman-Markey projects that by 2035 the bill would: “Reduce aggregate gross domestic product (GDP) by $7.4 trillion, Destroy 844,000 jobs on average, with peak years seeing unemployment rise by over 1,900,000 jobs, Raise electricity rates 90 percent after adjusting for inflation, Raise inflation-adjusted gasoline prices by 74 percent, Raise residential natural gas prices by 55 percent, Raise an average family's annual energy bill by $1,500, and Increase inflation-adjusted federal debt by 29 percent, or $33,400 additional federal debt per person, again after adjusting for inflation.”

But not all pushback against cap and trade was legitimate. How hard did lobbyists fight against the passage of cap and trade? One firm forged letters of opposition from traditionally-liberal pressure groups. This indicates that there were serious financial disincentives for businesses potentially affected. Tim Fernholz, it should be noted, was in favor of this and other big-government reforms, once remarking, “One important result may be that, judging by the scoring of the bill and this phenomenon, people aren't going to suffer economically and will become acclimated to this kind of regulatory scheme -- call it the gay-marriage model of legislative progress: One of the best ways to lose credibility is see your apocalyptic warnings proven totally wrong."

Perhaps what finally killed off this bill was adverse public opinion. Both Pew and Gallup saw unprecedented skepticism among the public that there even was a to be solved, and few Americans could even tell you what cap and trade meant, let alone navigate the intricacies of the bill as explained by congressional Democrats and their allies in the old media. By the time the president used a clever legerdemain to sell cap and trade with the BP oil spill, the public had largely decided against supporting this huge reform. Coupled with the poor economy and other large and politically-unpopular programs that the president had asked Congress to work on such as the Recovery Act and Obamacare, government overreach on healthcare "crowded out" government overreach on cap and trade. Ultimately, Democratic Senators could be counted upon to make two very unpopular votes, but not three.

Ways Forward? And Is it Really Necessary?
Lawmakers sympathetic to imposing cap-and-trade schemes to lower emissions have another lifeline to hold on to: EPA regulations. Throughout the last 100 years at least, Congress has de facto delegated much of its authority to legislate to the executive branch, which has picked up the slack through intrusive and comprehensive regulatory bodies. Congress has delegated so much power to the Executive Branch that this type of power grab [passing cap and trade through regulation and not legislation] is not only possible, it's legal and it's common in the 21st century.

Currently as we see gas prices at the pump have doubled under president Obama and no relief in sight, public support for increased domestic oil and gas exploration has increased. The public has no taste for the increased energy prices ACES would bring.

29 out of the 63 defeated House Democrats in the 2010 mid-term election voted for Waxman-Markey. Joe Manchin, a conservative-talking West Virginia Democrat freshman Senator, aired a popular campaign ad showing the candidate shooting the cap and trade bill with a gun. Despite leaving the DNC chair nonplussed, it certainly contributed to his election. Put these stories together, and it appears that there wonÂ’t be much movement on a bill like ACES for a long time to come.

Conclusion
In order to sate the need of a few mandarins ensconced in the bowels of the engine of the ship of state—in order to “lead” on “environmental issues” which are about as scientific as any religion is—the vast mass of humanity would have been saddled with impossible financial burdens. Our national character and culture, bound as it is in mobility, safe and spacious private property, affordable energy, and individual liberty, would be ground up and presented as a burnt offering at the altar of Mother Earth in exchange for no tangible benefit to us or Earth as an entity whatsoever. While there would be the promise of the assuagement of guilt and ultimate salvation, no actual carbon reduction would be achieved since carbon credits are the fiat currency of carbon welfare, and not the miracle cure for dubious climate change.

Even worse, we would be enslaved to underdeveloped countries around the world in a diabolical carbon welfare scheme so nefarious that it is nearly incomprehensible to a moral people. To those who believe that the West has somehow gotten over on the third world and stolen the sovereign wealth of the latter group, this continuous and incontrovertible flow of wealth from producer to non-producer may indeed be a worthy aim in and of itself; and certainly, the sort of person who would believe this would have no qualms about using big government as a cudgel against liberty.

However, Congress is elected to be the representative of the American electorate. If those in Congress truly believe that their constituents wish to make this form of welfare into an untouchable entitlement, it would behoove them to present it openly and honestly, and not cloak it in the pseudo-religion of environmentalism and the moral uprightness of world leadership.

Not only is ACES a bad bill in terms of accomplishing what it says it would accomplish, namely keeping the Earth cooler, but it is also a bad bill for what it would actually accomplish: nationalizing a bigger chunk of every industry (and pocketbook) and transferring wealth to the poor, benighted masses in the pre-developed world.

Be honest, Congress. Try to sell your ideas for wealth redistribution on an international scale on their merits. And if you believe that human beings are negatively affecting the Earth and that a government program is the solution, please find a better one than this. The jobs you save may be your own.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 02:44 PM | Comments (200)
Post contains 2812 words, total size 18 kb.

1 Nice movie Climategate review Thurman.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 02:47 PM (HBqDo)

2

With my normal blog luck, this will be up for 20 minutes, and then someone important will be assassinated, necessitating a new post. 

Which puts me in the position of selfishly rooting for no assassinations.

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 02:48 PM (I2LwF)

3 And still no word on the EPA forced rolling blackouts in Texas that are set to begin next month.
Gonna be a long cold winter.

Posted by: Pecos, Perry in a blaze of Glory at December 17, 2011 02:50 PM (2Gb0y)

4 Nice review, Truman.  Well done, sir.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 17, 2011 02:50 PM (Jr8AS)

5 Whats with the evil CDM V? He sucks.

Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 02:50 PM (CJNb1)

6

Enormous costs and few benefits, but an expansion of federal control?  What's not to like?

Posted by: Harry Reid at December 17, 2011 02:50 PM (SgLsM)

7 Hey, did you see that the prime minister of Abjnfaieksjsistan was just assassinated?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 17, 2011 02:51 PM (Jr8AS)

8 They want to rule over every thing we do. Because if everything is politicized, then everything can be turned to their benefit. They hate unregulated areas because politicians can't benefit from them.

Posted by: Trimegistus at December 17, 2011 02:52 PM (/aSzU)

9 7 Hey, did you see that the prime minister of Abjnfaieksjsistan was just assassinated?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 17, 2011 06:51 PM (Jr8AS)

LOL!

Posted by: Pecos, Perry in a blaze of Glory at December 17, 2011 02:52 PM (2Gb0y)

10

Totally off topic but screw it, This is about the troops.  This is a list of comfort items my lodge is send to an outfit in Afcrapistan to hopefully bring them a little christmas cheer. Ohio Dan

2 pkgs. 9 volt batteries,1 multi pack AA batteries, 1 multi pack AAA batteries, 4 compact LED flashlights, 2 Multi tools, 1 bottle Excedrin migraine, 1 bottle aspirin, 2 pkgs. decongestant, 1 bottle ibuprofen, 10 packs tuna, 4 packs slices peperoni, 3 large bags candy, 16 boxes tictacs, 8 multi packs of assorted gum, 2 boxes ziploc bags, 6 personal size hand cream, 12 tubes chapstick, 1 chess/checker set, 2 decks of cards, 1 pkg. safety pins, 6 deodorant sticks, 9 personal size shave cream, 80 disposable razors, 6 personal size shampoo/conditioner, 6 bottles hand sanitizer, 4 cans of cashews and almonds, 1 dozen pens, 8 notepads, assorted sizes, 3 sewing kits, 4 tins of Gold Bond powder, 4 tubes antifungal foot cream, 12 cup-a-noodles, 6 replacement ear buds for ipods and computers, 1 large box of candy canes, 6 large packages wet wipes, 2 cans insect repellant, 6 tubes spf 50 sunscreen, 3 boxes of granola bars, 9 boxes of assorted flavored and unflavored tea, 3 boxes of Knott's cookies, 4 boxes brach's fruit chews, 6 bags nuts and trail mix, 3 bags dried fruit, assorted dvds of movies and TV programs

 

May God bless them and keep them safe

Posted by: Ohio Dan at December 17, 2011 02:52 PM (JKNDp)

11

7 Hey, did you see that the prime minister of Abjnfaieksjsistan was just assassinated?

 

LOL!  Nice

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 02:53 PM (I2LwF)

12 Good  Work Ohio Dan.
My AAL post sent hand, foot and body warmers this year. The kind hunters around here use.
Keep it up and Thanks.

Posted by: Pecos, Perry in a blaze of Glory at December 17, 2011 02:54 PM (2Gb0y)

13 That bill did a LOT more than simply destroy the utility and oil industry and increase taxes exponentially.  You had to read through it. There was sit that was simply unbelievable.

A prime example was energy efficiency of houses. If yu did anything to your house that required a building permit, sold the house, or ??? one other that I forget; you had to upgrade the house to CA green standards which in most of the country would be almost impossible without tearing the house down.

My MIL's house was built in the 50s. To upgrade it would require almost a complete rebuild costing in the hundreds of thousands.

This is why I consider anyone who voted for that bill, or who supported it, to have failed a go - no go test. There were 8 Republicans who voted for it in the House.

Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 02:55 PM (YdQQY)

14 I think the tl;dr can be summed up this way:  Those fascist motherfuckers want to control every single aspect of our lives.

(I joke about tl;dr, that was an excellent overview)

Posted by: alexthechick at December 17, 2011 02:55 PM (Gk3SS)

15 "American Clean Energy and Security Act." How do they think of these Orwellian names? This piece of garbage will give us nothing that is American, Clean, Energetic, nor Secure. It's such a patent power grab based on junk science, it's no wonder Liberals have embraced it.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 02:56 PM (niZvt)

16 Vic, my house was built in the 50's too. I poured a few thousand into an attempt to just keep the house livable and pay the electric bill.

Posted by: Pecos, Perry in a blaze of Glory at December 17, 2011 02:57 PM (2Gb0y)

17 >>And if you believe that human beings are negatively affecting the Earth and that a government program is the solution, please find a better one than this. The jobs you save may be your own.

There are some human beings that are negatively affecting life on earth and it's just those jobs that we want to eliminate. 
Leftist, big government hacks and regulators should be traded on an exchange for something useful.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 02:57 PM (HBqDo)

18 Judging by the review, that must have been one boring movie.

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 02:58 PM (7se/h)

19 Great review.  Now Obama is going to detain you.  Obviously you are a terrorist.

Posted by: Molon Labe at December 17, 2011 02:58 PM (/IQEH)

20 “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.” George Washington

Posted by: Ohio Dan at December 17, 2011 02:59 PM (JKNDp)

21 Has anyone actually read the entire post? Can you summarize it for us?

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 02:59 PM (niZvt)

22 How was Brian Dennehy  in this one?

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 17, 2011 03:00 PM (NGI1E)

23 The other thing I thought was laughable was the estimates of what it would do to home electric bills. The Democrats said no more than a few dollars a month. heritage said on the average of $600/month.

That assumes not being in the SE with an all electric home and A/c obviously. I figured my bill would go up on the order of thousands per month.

In short, I would be forced to get a generator and go off the grid (which is what they wanted except with solar/wind). I also believe they had a special tax for generators and BBQ grills too.

Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:00 PM (YdQQY)

24
Can you summarize it for us?

We're fucked.  Prepare accordingly.

Posted by: Wodeshed at December 17, 2011 03:01 PM (SgLsM)

25 But seriously, good review. I did not know about the carbon welfare aspect.

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:01 PM (7se/h)

26 I poured a few thousand into an attempt to just keep the house livable and pay the electric bill.

Imagine upgrading it to total energy efficiency standards.

Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:02 PM (YdQQY)

27 My Uncle Fester died of mercury poising. Don't you heartless dim-bulbs care? He went green to protect you from yourselves and you are cracking jokes. Shame.

Posted by: Dion at December 17, 2011 03:02 PM (SvieA)

28
Dion at December 17, 2011 07:02 PM (SvieA)

I went Neon, Dion.

Posted by: Wodeshed at December 17, 2011 03:03 PM (SgLsM)

29

21 Has anyone actually read the entire post?

Can you summarize it for us?

Its a scam.

 

Posted by: wheatie......who still sez ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at December 17, 2011 03:04 PM (HvKWW)

30 As of June 2, 2009, even many environmentalists had given up on the bill. It is truly a monstrosity: it would cost consumers plenty, while doing little to reduce global temperatures.

Oh temps would have gone down alright. They have been going down for the past 10 to 15 years anyway and the lying bastards have been hiding that.

The entire scheme is a fraud. The advocates of this crap should go to jail.

Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:06 PM (YdQQY)

31 That's not very funny.

Posted by: Mrs prime minister of Abjnfaieksjsistan at December 17, 2011 03:06 PM (sHY5w)

32 Leftist, big government hacks and regulators should be traded on an exchange for something useful.

Who would take them? 

Just convert them to biofuel or garden mulch and let's move on.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at December 17, 2011 03:06 PM (hO8IJ)

33 If it wasn't for the intertubes these New World Order liars just might have pulled off this ginormous ripoff.
Odumdum and his Leftist co-conspirators are a day late and about 15 trillion short, on our ledger at least.
But who knows what Bernanke Bucks are really worth on the world market these days. 

Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 03:07 PM (HBqDo)

34 This kind of crap makes me wildly angry.

Complete and utter BS based on junk science that lines the pocket of everyone who perpetuates the lies, and what is probably the scariest aspect...all of this swallowed wholly and unblinkingly by a populace that is less and less inclined to think for themselves, and has less common sense collectively than God gave a  goat.

Ohio Dan, thank you for what you did and for sharing it; it restored my happy mood. God bless you and everyone else who thought of our service members this year.


Posted by: Tammy al' Thor at December 17, 2011 03:08 PM (SsG4J)

35

The whole thing about 'cap & trade' from the beginning was to create carbon credits to trade.......not stop polution. The poluters still get to polute, they just buy carbon credits and pass the cost on to the rate-payers.

What was the name of AlGore's carbon trading firm?

Posted by: wheatie......who still sez ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at December 17, 2011 03:08 PM (HvKWW)

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at December 17, 2011 03:08 PM (UR5vq)

37 One more nail in the coffin. The U.N. treaty version of this shit is even worse. They no longer make any bones about the environment at all. They only scream that the U.S. needs to give money to 3rd world shit heads.

Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:08 PM (YdQQY)

38 IL voters:

Never forget that (now) Senator Kirk voted for this cap-and-trade crap as a US Rep. ALWAYS ask him, every chance you get, about it. Let him know we do not forget.

Posted by: Chester White at December 17, 2011 03:09 PM (Rz4g0)

39 #30 Here you go, Vic, just via Instapundit today:
Real-life temperatures much lower than climate model predictions. Unexpectedly enough.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2011 03:10 PM (sHY5w)

40 I was watching Civilizations Lost the other night and it struck me how multiple times during the show there was mention of "and then there was a major climate change" somewhere around 4-5,000 years ago.  At no point was there any discussion of what that was or how that could be since there the world was not industrialized at that time.  The handwaving that's done about the last Ice Age and how we came out of that due to lalalala I can't hear you is hilariously breathtaking at times. 

Posted by: alexthechick at December 17, 2011 03:10 PM (Gk3SS)

41 How do boobies figure in all, anyway?

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:11 PM (niZvt)

42 When you posting Volume II?

Posted by: Dr Spank at December 17, 2011 03:13 PM (H/kgP)

43 >>Just convert them to biofuel or garden mulch and let's move on.

You might want to keep that idea under your hat til you flesh out a business plan, someone just might steal it.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 03:14 PM (HBqDo)

44 alexthechick oh that's easy... climate change 5,000 years ago? Time traveling Koch brothers

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:14 PM (7se/h)

45 How do boobies figure in all, anyway?

They cause earthquakes, duh. 

Posted by: alexthechick at December 17, 2011 03:15 PM (Gk3SS)

46 BTW, both Newt and Mutt were all for this cap and trade crap.

Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:17 PM (YdQQY)

47 Oh, National Review Online is reporting in its Planet Gore section that the traditional light bulb has been saved! Now, I personally am alright with fluorescent light bulbs, because throwing the mercury-laced things out my car window driving past elementary schools is fun after they burn out (typically about 3 months after buying them). Still... it was outrageous the government thought it could dictate to a Free People what bulbs they were allowed to buy.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:18 PM (niZvt)

48 And dickhead McCain was all for it.

Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at December 17, 2011 03:19 PM (sFhEw)

49

This is an excellent summary, Truman.  I recommend the piece linked below as a companion to yours, if only for the bonus Maurice Strong as the Cap on the Cap & Trade pyramid:

http://tinyurl.com/c7yxzr7

The author hits all the big names--yes, Leo Gerard is in there, but surprisingly, no Soros-- and tags the whole den of thieves pretty well. 

Posted by: 66chevelle at December 17, 2011 03:19 PM (QjSgY)

50

#47

 

I do the same thing in front of homes of econuts and tree huggers.

Posted by: Molon Labe at December 17, 2011 03:19 PM (/IQEH)

51 45 How do boobies figure in all, anyway? They cause earthquakes, duh. Posted by: alexthechick at December 17, 2011 07:15 PM (Gk3SS) That would Christine Hendrick's cleavage the San Andreas Fault... http://tinyurl.com/7ntxgsy

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:20 PM (niZvt)

52 tl;dr

Posted by: Andy at December 17, 2011 03:20 PM (XG+Mn)

53 Just kidding. Good piece, Truman.

Posted by: Andy at December 17, 2011 03:21 PM (XG+Mn)

54 Dr Kratos, Rohrabacher is my Rep! He's kind of a pompous old coot, but his heart is in the right place, and he's a reliable Conservative.

Posted by: Tammy al' Thor at December 17, 2011 03:24 PM (SsG4J)

55 God, you morons are getting so jaded. Here I post a shot of Christine Hendrick's magnificent mantelpiece of a rack, and not even a yawn...

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:27 PM (niZvt)

56 Hendrick's rack should have "Thule" stamped on it.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:27 PM (niZvt)

57 perhaps the next cap n trade system will be one where we cap the power of government and trade our politicians away

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:28 PM (7se/h)

58 Damnit. How did "poising" fly? Good one, Wodeshed. Anyway, bite me. Neon

Posted by: Dion at December 17, 2011 03:29 PM (SvieA)

59 The UN proposed an "international climate court of justice".

That would  most certainly end well.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 17, 2011 03:29 PM (2wtuH)

60 God, you morons are getting so jaded. Here I post a shot of Christine Hendrick's magnificent mantelpiece of a rack, and not even a yawn...

Hey!  Those bunks aren't going to go to themselves you know!

Posted by: alexthechick at December 17, 2011 03:30 PM (Gk3SS)

61 Time for Newt to hang out with Nancy Pelosi again..

Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at December 17, 2011 03:30 PM (sFhEw)

62 "International Climate Court of Justice"? Who would preside, Captain Planet?

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:31 PM (7se/h)

63 Sorry, but I saw Christine Hendricks brains blown out a few hours earlier.

Posted by: Mike at December 17, 2011 03:32 PM (0hdwM)

64 Fourth...

Fourth best...

Fourth best president!

Posted by: Taco Bellcurve at December 17, 2011 03:34 PM (KOQBP)

65 62 "International Climate Court of Justice"? Who would preside, Captain Planet? Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 07:31 PM (7se/h) Yes, I can see the Euroweenies eagerly embracing that concept and pretend to have "Universal Jurisdiction" to arrest American business leaders for "pollution" in America. But utterly ignore the filthy sewer that is the entire Chinese mainland these days...

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:34 PM (niZvt)

66 63 Sorry, but I saw Christine Hendricks brains blown out a few hours earlier. Posted by: Mike at December 17, 2011 07:32 PM (0hdwM) So? Why does she needs brains? She has a RACK big enuff to make a rutting moose blush.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:36 PM (niZvt)

67 @59: One part of that article reads, In one section, the document calls for developed countries to help poorer countries with “finance, technology and capacity building” so they can “adapt to and mitigate climate change” while helping eliminate poverty. Another section provides that developing countries should receive an amount of money equal to the amount “developed countries spend on defense, security and warfare.” Yeah, OK, Sparky... but we get to deduct $1 Billion for each Human Being mercilessly slaughtered by the barbarians that run the gangster governments of those 3rd World Shitholes (3WSHs, for short), OK? At that rate. the 3WSHs will owe the civilized world back payments.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:40 PM (niZvt)

68 >>God, you morons are getting so jaded. Here I post a shot of Christine Hendrick's magnificent mantelpiece of a rack, and not even a yawn...

She looks like she has some 300lb plumber's buttcrack hanging out on her front porch.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 03:41 PM (HBqDo)

69 This thread is dead, Jim!

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at December 17, 2011 03:44 PM (niZvt)

70 30 As of June 2, 2009, even many environmentalists had given up on the bill. It is truly a monstrosity: it would cost consumers plenty, while doing little to reduce global temperatures. Oh temps would have gone down alright. They have been going down for the past 10 to 15 years anyway and the lying bastards have been hiding that. The entire scheme is a fraud. The advocates of this crap should go to jail. Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 07:06 PM (YdQQY) you know a funny thing is that if there had not been a few brave men/women of conscience to stand in the way of the nonsense and calling bull these bastards could have gotten all of their crap passed and implemented before the temperatures reverted to the mean and then we would be arguing against idiots claiming that temperatures declined because of their plan.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 03:46 PM (loM0R)

71 66 63 Sorry, but I saw Christine Hendricks brains blown out a few hours earlier. Posted by: Mike at December 17, 2011 07:32 PM (0hdwM) So? Why does she needs brains? She has a RACK big enuff to make a rutting moose blush. Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 07:36 PM (niZvt) christina hendricks - eh not feeling it. she is not ugly but quit trying to convince me my eyes are lying to me; just as the media keeps doing with michelle0.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 03:48 PM (loM0R)

72

>>Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 07:48 PM (loM0R)

CH vs MO?

It ain't your eyes Dood, you might think about cutting back by about a pint.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 03:53 PM (HBqDo)

73 From over at Sweetness & Light: ICE preparing contingencies for mass migration events Wed, 2011-12-14 By: Mark Rockwell Looking back at the mid-1990s influx of thousands of Haitians and Cubans into South Florida, and even further back to the Mariel Boatlift that saw an influx of thousands more, the Department of Homeland Security wants a plan to deal with sudden mass migrations of immigrants to the U.S. DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano, according to a statement by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, recently directed ICE to develop a national-level mass migration plan. Also known as a Democrat ‘get out the vote’ drive. The plan will outline how to address the health care, sheltering, processing, transition and disposition of large numbers of undocumented individuals who might arrive in the U.S. as the result of a mass migration, said ICE on Dec. 13. Note there is no mention of how to return these "undocumented individuals." Also, note that there is no mention of any efforts to simply prevent their mass migration in the first place.

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at December 17, 2011 03:55 PM (niZvt)

74 Off, bones sock

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:57 PM (niZvt)

75 hendrick is at least an order of magnitude more attractive than michelle0, but she is not that attractive; hendricks is definitely on the high side of five while michelle is below five. a big set of guns and a blank stare are only part of the equation.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 03:57 PM (loM0R)

76 CoolCzech no kidding this thread is deader than Ted Kennedy

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:58 PM (lIiq2)

77 wayyyyyyyy tooooooo many words.........

Posted by: phoenixgirl at December 17, 2011 04:01 PM (Ho2rs)

78 Can someone post the Readers Digest version please. One sentence preferred.

Posted by: Perry Shoots Straight at December 17, 2011 04:01 PM (EL+OC)

79 Deader than the 999 plan

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 04:01 PM (lIiq2)

80

But still no word on Anthony Weiner

Posted by: Doug S at December 17, 2011 04:02 PM (bGgEi)

81 Awesome overview of something we don't usually see in detail - the right (for the most part) has kind of a "yes, we know that's BS" reaction to things like this. While that's *true*, it is helpful to look at the details.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 17, 2011 04:03 PM (bxiXv)

82 Deader than Herman Cain's marriage.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:03 PM (niZvt)

83 @71 Yeah, I don't see it either.

Posted by: Tommygun at December 17, 2011 04:04 PM (T2ydq)

84 Deader than CoolCzech's libido after witnessing a Helen Thomas swimsuit photo spread

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 04:05 PM (lIiq2)

85 84 Deader than CoolCzech's libido after witnessing a Helen Thomas swimsuit photo spread Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 08:05 PM (lIiq2)

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:06 PM (niZvt)

86 From :

Sources say likely that Hse somehow alters the Senate-passed bill and kicks it back to the Senate in a game of parliamentary Ping-Pong.

Posted by: Miss'80s at December 17, 2011 04:07 PM (d6QMz)

87 Oh, god, Mark Steyn is now going off about Newt being a totalitarian. That's funny, I didn't know Mark was being fitted for his tinfoil hat...

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:08 PM (niZvt)

88 @83: Can you see these Now? http://tinyurl.com/d5dl686

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:10 PM (niZvt)

89 well ya know, Newt does kinda look like Santa, and Santa doesn't exactly tolerate dissent at the North Pole

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 04:11 PM (lIiq2)

90 It's all about the Benjamins that can be skimmed off.  The Left can not support itself.  I fault the Right for not cutting off their money when they have the chance.

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 04:12 PM (GTbGH)

91 Note there is no mention of how to return these "undocumented individuals." Also, note that there is no mention of any efforts to simply prevent their mass migration in the first place.

I suggest lead & brass after a warning to not cross the borders of the US illegally.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston training for the ONT mudwrestling match at December 17, 2011 04:14 PM (ijjAe)

92 Still... it was outrageous the government thought it could dictate to a Free People what bulbs they were allowed to buy.

They were emboldened when they got away with telling us what kind of pot to piss in.

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 04:18 PM (GTbGH)

93 I have a feeling I'll be re-posting this many times.
A good friend of mine who I haven't seen in a few years is a screenplay writer (he's a step or two beyond just starting out, but still new to some things) and he needs info. from a "fighter pilot" to make sure he gets his details right in whatever it is he's writing.
If it matters,the guy is hardcore Conservative, business owner, generally good guy. I know there are  a bunch of Vets posting here, but I don't recall a "fighter pilot". Any military pilot would probably be able to answer his questions.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 17, 2011 04:19 PM (Qjh0I)

94 So, do any AOS fighter jocks feel like exchanging e-mails with bim?

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 17, 2011 04:21 PM (Qjh0I)

95 The current Secretary of the Army voted for ACES back when he was a GOP rep for NY-23.

Posted by: Miss'80s at December 17, 2011 04:22 PM (d6QMz)

96 http://tinyurl.com/d5dl686 Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 08:10 PM (niZvt) you have the wrong girl and you may have accidentally linked to something you wish you had not linked.

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:24 PM (loM0R)

97 In the New Year I forsee a cheerleader picture accompanying every new thread.

Posted by: Nostradamus at December 17, 2011 04:28 PM (ngvie)

98 96 http://tinyurl.com/d5dl686 Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 08:10 PM (niZvt) you have the wrong girl and you may have accidentally linked to something you wish you had not linked. Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 08:24 PM (loM0R) You even object to Christina Applegate? Boy, you are hard to please.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:29 PM (niZvt)

99 You even object to Christina Applegate? Boy, you are hard to please. Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 08:29 PM (niZvt) did you read the caption?

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:30 PM (loM0R)

100 92 "Still... it was outrageous the government thought it could dictate to a Free People what bulbs they were allowed to buy." They were emboldened when they got away with telling us what kind of pot to piss in. Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 08:18 PM (GTbGH) You're right about that. Looking at the way this country has gone in terms of personal freedom since c. 1970, I just can't imagine what it will be like in 2070. Seriously: you can't hardly smoke anywhere anymore, you can't walk down the street in a fur coat, you can't voice your opinion without fear of "outrageously offending" somebody. Glad I won't be around by 2070, and I feel sorry both those of you bastards who will still be around in your government-regulated Hoverounds.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:33 PM (niZvt)

101 @99: yeah, she used to have a perfect rack - and there it is, in brilliant technicolor. Kelly Bundy's chest in all its primal glory.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:34 PM (niZvt)

102 well ya know, Newt does kinda look like Santa, and Santa doesn't exactly tolerate dissent at the North Pole

Discipline WILL be enforced.

http://tinyurl.com/6rjcn4d

I hope I got a little gold star in heaven last week for not doing this speech @home with Mom, Sis & teen nephews.

Communist, twinkle-toes, sack of shit cocksucker - I want to vote for Sarge.

Posted by: DaveA at December 17, 2011 04:35 PM (/3UeZ)

103 When Bush 41 implemented the first Cap and Trade system in the US crude oil prices actually fell over the next five years.

Price predictions are usually wrong.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 04:35 PM (z0HdK)

104 97 In the New Year I forsee a cheerleader picture accompanying every new thread. Posted by: Nostradamus at December 17, 2011 08:28 PM (ngvie) Go on...

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:36 PM (niZvt)

105 101 @99: yeah, she used to have a perfect rack - and there it is, in brilliant technicolor. Kelly Bundy's chest in all its primal glory. Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 08:34 PM (niZvt) and do yo know why she doesn't anymore?

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:36 PM (loM0R)

106 Lincolntf
Maybe ask Bill Whittle @pajamas media.  He's a pilot IIRC.

Posted by: DaveA at December 17, 2011 04:37 PM (/3UeZ)

107 You know, I can actually remember a time when you could park your car right in front of the grocery store door, without worrying some freaking fake "handicapper" that can walk perfectly well but somehow finagled a "handicapped" tag would sick the cops on you for doing so. Nothing like a packed parking lot with nowhere to park but a dozen empty handicapped parking spaces. And now some stores have a "for customers with children only" slots - which I routinely take, on the theory that a) that bullshit wasn't around to benefit ME way back when, and b) I actually do have a child (who cares if he's 22 and not with me at that moment). How come Andy Effing Rooney never ranted about THAT, huh? Answer me THAT!!!! Ok, Ok, I feel better now...

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:39 PM (niZvt)

108 05 101 @99: yeah, she used to have a perfect rack - and there it is, in brilliant technicolor. Kelly Bundy's chest in all its primal glory. Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 08:34 PM (niZvt) and do yo know why she doesn't anymore? Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 08:36 PM (loM0R) You know, you're getting a) annoying, and b) giving out all the signs of being a self-righteous ass about to inform me she had them removed due to breast cancer which a) I don't know and b) refuse to suddenly sigh and apologize over. Do you have something else to complain about?

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:41 PM (niZvt)

109 And for your information, yankee, I thought the damned caption was implying her rack had gotten fat and droopy, that's all.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:44 PM (niZvt)

110 Do you have something else to complain about? Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 08:41 PM (niZvt) I was only surprised that you, who post things I almost always enjoy reading got the wrong girl and then used something in uncharacteristically poor taste. nothing wrong with the actress or character or the actress. only needling not looking for a mea culpa or penance to some gods of pc. it certainly is nothing more than an "oops"

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:47 PM (loM0R)

111 @110: well, sorry I snapped a bit at you; the conversation seemed to be going in that direction. I really had/have no idea if that happened to her or not - I merely googled "perfect rack" and that came up.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:49 PM (niZvt)

112 10: well, sorry I snapped a bit at you; the conversation seemed to be going in that direction. I really had/have no idea if that happened to her or not - I merely googled "perfect rack" and that came up. Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 08:49 PM (niZvt) no blood no foul

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:50 PM (loM0R)

113 OK

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:52 PM (niZvt)

114 When Bush 41 implemented the first Cap and Trade system in the US crude oil prices actually fell over the next five years.

Are you talking about Cap&Trade of Sulfur-Dioxide emissions from coal fired power plants?  Which has fuck all do with oil prices?

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 04:54 PM (GTbGH)

115 "perfect rack"
They are gone but she is still kicking.
Some of those ladies are funny.
"Save second base"

Posted by: DaveA at December 17, 2011 04:54 PM (/3UeZ)

116 In a recent letter to the editor at the WSJ Mike "Tree Ring" Mann renamed deniers contrarians and called the ClimateGate leaker(s) thieves. He is still working on getting his notebook signed and witnessed, so don't be buggin his ass.

Posted by: eman at December 17, 2011 04:55 PM (kEKwc)

117 Fucking Random might be an improvement on this love fest, or a steaming cone of German Shepturd.

....oops, I repeat myself.

Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 04:58 PM (HBqDo)

118 is there an average time between comments that is tracked for threads? when do you decide to just stick a fork in a thread?

Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 05:04 PM (loM0R)

119 Yep.  Google confirms that the Bush 41 C&T was to limit sulfur-dioxide emissions from coal fired power plants and had nothing to do with oil.  Also confirmed:  Clarence couldn't find his ass with either hand. 

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:04 PM (GTbGH)

120 I smell fat

Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:06 PM (oibxU)

121 This is a good thread topic.  I commend this Truman.

Yes to 'toby' - crude oil pricing is impacted by sulfur content.  We like the sweet crude here in the good ole regulated acid rain free new USA.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:07 PM (z0HdK)

122 Oil was unaffected by Bush 41's C&T.  Keep digging, dunce.

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:08 PM (GTbGH)

123 So toby, you are defending Cap and Trade for coal-fired plants.

Good to have you on our side!

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:08 PM (z0HdK)

124 All we have to do is, figure out a way to make money off the scheme. Then, after we've created a bubble in the market, cash out, crash the system, and leave the politicians playing grabass n' shuffle, trying to explain what went wrong.

Sound like a plan?

Posted by: franksalterego at December 17, 2011 05:09 PM (9XykO)

125 Your sucking my uinformative farts, clarence.

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:09 PM (GTbGH)

126 or informative farts

either or

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:10 PM (GTbGH)

127 Whos is the rights Hitch? W? Why is there no such thing as a right wing intellectual?

Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:11 PM (oibxU)

128 Yes to 'toby' - crude oil pricing is impacted by sulfur content.  We like the sweet crude here in the good ole regulated acid rain free new USA.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 09:07 PM (z0HdK)

Heh, wrap your lips around that 36" pipe that will be running from Canada to Houston soon (thank you Obama for continuing to be a pussy) and taste that sweet Canada tar sands oil.

Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:12 PM (MtwBb)

129 128

Buckley of William was certainly an intellectual of the conservative persuasion.

I can't name a current one though.   George Will is cast as one though.  He has the look.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:14 PM (z0HdK)

130 Also , I can blow myself... watch this!

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:15 PM (Zw/H7)

131 robtr -

My man just withheld the KXL approval as a poker chip to hold his payroll tax cuts in place.

Alberta tar oil has been flowing to an Illini refiner for years.  KXL just makes the route more direct to Texas where they refine Hugo's heave tar shit.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:17 PM (z0HdK)

132

I was going to make some snarky comment about this being one of the most boring movies ace has ever reviewed, but I see I'm about 130 comments too late.

That's ok though, Ohio just came back and beat Utah State in the last 20 seconds to give me 4 points on the day in the pick'em thing!  I love college football.

Posted by: OSUsux at December 17, 2011 05:17 PM (aOaj7)

133 China is building a new coal burning plant every 10 minutes. Let's write them letters asking them to stop. For the children and the unicorns.

Posted by: eman at December 17, 2011 05:17 PM (kEKwc)

134 "130 128

Buckley of William was certainly an intellectual of the conservative persuasion.

I can't name a current one though.   George Will is cast as one though.  He has the look."

His son sucks. Wasnt his son fired from the NY Times? His pieces certainly sucked.

George was a force 25 years ago, pretty much silent today.


Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:18 PM (oibxU)

135

Good heavens that's a long post. I bet it has a lot of facts and stuff. I'll never know.

Posted by: Jones at December 17, 2011 05:18 PM (8sCoq)

136 Ohio just came back and beat Utah State in the last 20 seconds to give me 4 points on the day in the pick'em thing!

It costs me 2.  It's tough to do the pick'em on teams you haven't seen play.

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:18 PM (GTbGH)

137 134 That's ok though, Ohio just came back and beat Utah State in the last 20 seconds to give me 4 points on the day in the pick'em thing! I love college football.
_______

Yeah, the game was on at the place where I foraged for dinner.

You can always count on the Aggies to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Not that I'm bitter or anything.

Posted by: Anachronda, USU class of '86 at December 17, 2011 05:19 PM (6fER6)

138 I also foresee the Des Moines Register endorsing Mittens

Posted by: Nostradamus at December 17, 2011 05:19 PM (ngvie)

139 My man just withheld the KXL approval as a poker chip to hold his payroll tax cuts in place.

Alberta tar oil has been flowing to an Illini refiner for years.  KXL just makes the route more direct to Texas where they refine Hugo's heave tar shit.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 09:17 PM (z0HdK)

Is your man that same pussy we call Mr. President who made the gutsy call that he would veto any attempt to tie the pipeline to the social security tax cut?

Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:19 PM (MtwBb)

140 Yep!  legs over the head, open wide and here comes my very own purple cobra driving into my face garage!

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:22 PM (Zw/H7)

141 Agree 135.

Buckley vs Chomsky on Youtube.  Two intellectuals squaring off without some asshole moderator.

Those days are over - sadly.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:22 PM (z0HdK)

142 Is your man that same pussy we call Mr. President who made the gutsy call that he would veto any attempt to tie the pipeline to the social security tax cut?

Don't call his bluff!

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:22 PM (GTbGH)

143 It's quality people like Clarence that make me remember to keep a big crescent wrench handy in the truck at all times.

Posted by: sifty at December 17, 2011 05:23 PM (WsOiK)

144 Dallas up by 21

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:26 PM (GTbGH)

145 I believe tubby has a waterhose inserted in his sphincter and another orifice that also bellows much hot air.

Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:26 PM (oibxU)

146 robtr-

Political proclamations are numerous and worth  in inverse proportion to their frequency. 

Dallas 21 TB 0  - sorry ass game tonight.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:26 PM (z0HdK)

147 Avs 1 Caps 0

Posted by: Jones at December 17, 2011 05:27 PM (8sCoq)

148 If there's no ONT in half an hour, I'll whip one up.

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:28 PM (I2LwF)

149 Hi

Posted by: Peaches at December 17, 2011 05:29 PM (Xroyj)

150 Oh thanks Clarence for taking it a step farther. We agree then, not only is Obama a pussy, he's a liar that shouldn't be taken seriously.

Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:30 PM (MtwBb)

151 "149 If there's no ONT in half an hour, I'll whip one up."

You seem ok Truman, and hope they ban the evil dmv z or whatever his name is. I think the dm is sweet on miss tammie.

Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:30 PM (oibxU)

152 According to a Dem source, ex-Rep. Nick Lampson (D-TX) will file on Monday for 14th CD

14th CD = Soon-to-be-retired Ron Paul

Posted by: M80B at December 17, 2011 05:31 PM (d6QMz)

153 then with a mouth full of myself ,  I like to mumble
"Obama's sweet crude Obama's sweet crude"
just to get the tongue moving around


I refer to it as giving myself a "Chomsky" .

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:32 PM (Zw/H7)

154 rob - I am a fan of Milton Friedman and his close pal - the forgotten George Stigler.  Capitalism 101 and 102 from the Chicago school.

102 (Stigler) is just as important as 101.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:34 PM (z0HdK)

155 really, and yet you vote for a keynesian. You're conflicted clarence.

Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:37 PM (MtwBb)

156 Hey, speaking of awesome economists, someone was saying the other day that there was some anti-Semitic language coming out of the Ludwig von Mises Institute's website?  I find it impossible to believe.  Anybody know anything about this?

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:37 PM (I2LwF)

157 House Will Likely Modify Senate Extenders Package

The House will likely modify or send to conference a Senate-passed bill to temporarily extend jobless benefits and the payroll tax cut when the chamber returns Monday, prolonging a session already well past its target end-date.

The chamber will also vote on the Senate-passed version of the bill, according to the office of House Majority Leader Eric Cantor. The Virginia Republican's office sent a release Saturday night indicating that votes are possible on Tuesday as well.

Posted by: M80B at December 17, 2011 05:38 PM (d6QMz)

158 No, it appears that there will be a real ONT tonight.  Coming up shortly.

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:38 PM (I2LwF)

159 Hey, speaking of awesome economists, someone was saying the other day that there was some anti-Semitic language coming out of the Ludwig von Mises Institute's website?  I find it impossible to believe.  Anybody know anything about this?

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 09:37 PM (I2LwF)

Nope, Random was giving us some knowledge on all he learned at the German Hygiene Museum but no.

Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:39 PM (MtwBb)

160 "Hey, speaking of awesome economists,"

Krugman? He was bashing Paul so that put a little salt on my peter.

Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:40 PM (oibxU)

161 Ohh, it was Random.  No wonder it seemed completely incoherent and insane.

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:40 PM (I2LwF)

162 "159 No, it appears that there will be a real ONT tonight.  Coming up shortly."

From the evil one? From the hater of free speech?

Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:41 PM (oibxU)

163 There is only one awesome economist and that is Nouriel Roubini.  The rest of 'em are just hacks and shills.

Posted by: Peaches at December 17, 2011 05:42 PM (Xroyj)

164

Walter Russel Mead just published a piece with the title of the decade:

 

Angela Merkel: Herding Cats Over A Cliff

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:42 PM (I2LwF)

165 We can only hope.

Posted by: beelzebub at December 17, 2011 05:42 PM (GTbGH)

166 I don't know, Hitch.  I can only tell you it's in queue and will be appearing in a few minutes.

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:43 PM (I2LwF)

167 raykon the hutt.

Posted by: word to the wise at December 17, 2011 05:44 PM (GTbGH)

168 Little fuckheads using Christopher Hitchens name deserve to have their speech limited raykon you pathetic shit.

Posted by: buzzion at December 17, 2011 05:45 PM (GULKT)

169 Roubini, or Dr. Doom, certainly had it right back in the early 2000s - but I remember reading George Gilder back in the 80s - he is forgotten now.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:47 PM (z0HdK)

170 but I remember reading George Gilder back in the 80s - he is forgotten now.

You read Gilder?  And yet the proggers get your vote?  You are conflicted.

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:48 PM (GTbGH)

171 The Cajuns are ragin'.

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:52 PM (GTbGH)

172 Just got home from dinner and drinks with friends..  Truman, nice post, but it's so long and no pics of kittens or boobies... ugh...   I need a drink

Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (Mrdk1)

173 Gilder, that was where Prince Humperdink was from, right?  Or was that the Principality they were at war with?

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (I2LwF)

174 "169 Little fuckheads using Christopher Hitchens name deserve to have their speech limited raykon you pathetic shit.

Posted by: buzzion at December 17, 2011 09:45 PM (GULKT)"


Stupido, he was of the left, not the fascist right

Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (oibxU)

175 yeah, I read 'Wealth and Poverty' back then.  I voted for Reagan.

I am more like Bruce Bartlett than Robert Reich.   The GOP lost me with Bush-Cheney.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (z0HdK)

176 Little fuckheads using Christopher Hitchens name deserve to have their speech limited raykon you pathetic shit.

I second that.

Posted by: Peaches at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (Xroyj)

177 My God, like the Walking Dead this thread just keeps going and going... Yes, you know I DO remember George Gilder... Wasn't he a pro-capitalism writer?

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (niZvt)

178 No worries, Yip.  Someone upthread concisely summarized it:  "It's a scam."

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (I2LwF)

179 This thread's over.  ONT up as advertised.

Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:55 PM (I2LwF)

180 Truman,

The WEEC is looking for abstracts at the next conference. You have the paper already written. You should go for it.

Posted by: sTevo at December 17, 2011 05:55 PM (VMcEw)

181 Heh... yeah, I'm catching on..   I hate scams.  This WAS total BS, all this warming crap and the deals in Washington made to midigate it.   Nice all the same Truman.   More boobies next time though, ok?

Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 17, 2011 05:56 PM (Mrdk1)

182 Gilder is now fucking around with the Creationist Institute - the one in Oregon or close by.

He is insane today - more like a Santorum than a capitalist.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:58 PM (z0HdK)

183 I am more like Bruce Bartlett than Robert Reich.   The GOP lost me with Bush-Cheney.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 09:53 PM (z0HdK)

That's too bad, what turned you off about them, doubling the troops in afghanistan, killing american citizens with drones with no trial or charges, signing an executive order that american citizens could be held indefinitely at Gitmo without due process, extending the tax cuts for the rich or the massive spending? Oh wait, that's Obama. Sorry.

Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:59 PM (MtwBb)

184 Buckley of William was certainly an intellectual of the conservative persuasion.

I can't name a current one though.   George Will is cast as one though.  He has the look.

Of course you can't, Clarence.  That is because you are incapable of recognizing one until after they are dead.

Jonah Goldberg had a column about this  not long ago - about how conservative intellectuals are hardly ever recognized for their brilliance by the left when they are alive.  It isn't enough for them to disagree with conservatives - they cannot even acknowledge that some of them may actually be smart.

I think most of us would at least recognize that liberals like Krugman and Stiglitz are in fact smart, even if we disagree with about 100% of what they write.  But WFB?  It is only okay to admit he's smart only after he's dead.  When he was alive, he was a bombastic patrician, a crazy anticommunist, a closet racist opposed to the Civil Rights Act, etc.

That is mainly because the left's caricature of conservatism is that it is fundamentally stupid.  Crass flag-waving patriotism, redneck Bible-thumping, greedy Scrooge McDucks hoarding cash, etc.

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 06:00 PM (s7mIC)

185 Ok guys - look at Gilder - certainly a leading thinker of the Reagan era.  Here is a quote of his since.

Religion is primary. Unless a culture is aspiring toward the good, the true, and the beautiful, and wants the good and the true, really worships God, it readily worships Satan. If we turn away from God, our culture becomes dominated by “Real Crime Stories” and rap music and other spew... When the culture becomes corrupt, then the businesses that serve the culture also become corrupt... Secular culture is in general corrupt, and degraded, and depraved. Because I don’t believe in secular culture, I think parochial schools are the only real schools


Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:03 PM (z0HdK)

186 fucking democrats

Posted by: Buck Ofama at December 17, 2011 06:08 PM (4sQwu)

187 I like Bartlett, Frum, and David Brooks.  But I know what you will say.

They are apostates - RINOs.

No, I cannot name a single Tea Party conservative that I respect and that has written something of note.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:08 PM (z0HdK)

188 You voted for Reagan, and the SCoaMF.  The Anti-Reagan.

Something is wrong with this picture.

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 06:09 PM (GTbGH)

189 Well, look at the 80s.  Dems ran Mondale and Dukakis - two terrible candidates.  They deserved to lose.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:13 PM (z0HdK)

190 I think you're lying.

Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 06:16 PM (GTbGH)

191 so here I am, balls poised on the bridge of my nose, root firmly socketed into my pouty dickholster.

 I'm proud of my ingenuity but I have no one to share it with except of course my upstairs neighbor aka Mom.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:26 PM (Zw/H7)

192 Buckley vs Chomsky on Youtube.  Two intellectuals squaring off without some asshole moderator.

You're half right.  One intellectual and one leftist cockholster.

Posted by: meekrob at December 17, 2011 06:26 PM (/0HuL)

193 Interestingly enough "Chomsky on Youtube" is another funny euphemism I use for my special auto-sex maneuver.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:35 PM (Zw/H7)

194 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Netcraft confirms it!

Posted by: Doofus at December 17, 2011 07:09 PM (xKC/c)

195 190 Well, look at the 80s.  Dems ran Mondale and Dukakis - two terrible candidates.  They deserved to lose.

Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 10:13 PM (z0HdK)


That's not what the Dems of the 80's said.  In the 80's, Mondale and Dukakis were brilliant champions of the "little guy".

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 07:35 PM (s7mIC)

196 Here are some names for you, Clarence:
How about Sowell?
How about Scalia?
How about Ponnuru?
They aren't necessarily "Tea Party Conservatives" per se but they are smart, intelligent conservative men, who are not nearly as moderately RINOish as Frum and Brooks.

This is exactly the same phenomenon that Goldberg was describing.
While Scalia is alive - he's a monster, who would want to be like him?
Once Scalia is dead - he's a smart brilliant conservative, and why can't you modern-day conservatives be more like that intelligent Scalia fellow?

Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 07:39 PM (s7mIC)

197

179 No worries, Yip. Someone upthread concisely summarized it: "It's a scam." 

It's a very nicely written piece though, Truman.

Posted by: wheatie......who still sez ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at December 18, 2011 03:49 AM (HvKWW)

198 Mr. North,

I'm happy to have read this EXCELLENT article of yours.  You are truly one of the men who make this such a smart blog, and I'm glad it didnt get bumped and we got to read it - for selfish reasons too!

Posted by: MoJoTee at December 18, 2011 09:36 AM (e1kfW)

199 Just had to de-lurk to say thank-you for the excellent review of the Cap and Trade clusterfuck that we seem to have (narrowly) avoided. Nice job, TN.

Posted by: Ryt at December 18, 2011 11:38 AM (WsEsA)

200

air filter,oil filter,water filter,all filter

www.genset-china.com

Posted by: kadin at December 21, 2011 03:23 AM (wOHIa)

Hide Comments | Add Comment | Refresh | Top

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.
187kb generated in CPU 0.0658, elapsed 0.3205 seconds.
64 queries taking 0.2793 seconds, 328 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.