December 17, 2011
— Open Blogger In light of our current consternation over the intractability and bloody-mindedness of Congressional Democrats, and the added evidence of a Great Climate Change Swindle coming from the Climategate II email set, here's a longish article discussing 2009's failed effort to ram through cap and trade.
Overview
Since the 1970s at least, organized opponents of entrepreneurs and industrialists who would utilize natural resources for industrial and economic expansion have pointed to the negative externalities of such expansion on the air, water, and several peoples of the world as reason to restrict and even stop the industrial processes which use and damage the natural environment.
In April of 2009, hearings started on the draft of the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 (ACES) , a bill which would make it more expensive to produce domestic fossil fuel-based energy by placing a tax on carbon-based compounds which appear as unavoidable by-products of producing fossil energy. In June, the bill was passed by the House of 111th Congress, 219-212. Due to political circumstances, it was never taken up by the full Senate, and therefore died ignobly at the expiration of the term of the 111th.
Ironically, the bill was not necessarily American, having been largely based upon the EUÂ’s Emission Trading Scheme; it was not about clean energy, but rather about restricting our access to energy the bill deemed to be dirty and transferring large amounts of wealth; and it was not about security, since the result would necessarily be the increased use of foreign energy sources. It was, however, an Act, and did appear first in 2009.
At the heart of the legislation is a cap-and-trade system that sets a limit on overall emissions of heat-trapping gases by government fiat while allowing utilities, manufacturers and other emitters to trade pollution permits or allowances among themselves. The cap would grow tighter over the years, pushing up the price of emissions and presumably driving industry to find cleaner ways of making energy.
The Problem: Under-regulated Growth of Pollution Emission
The underlying premise for establishing a carbon credit exchange and other pollution caps established by government fiat is evidence that the Earth is warming, and furthermore, at least some element of that warming has to do with emissions from industrial processes performed by human beings through the burning of so-called fossil fuels: primarily coal, oil, and natural gas. This additional warming is theorized to do harm to the environment and therefore to people, plants and animals when compounded over a long time period (several centuries at least). One of the chemicals released by the burning of fossil fuels is carbon dioxide, a vital component to the continued existence of all plant life, which occurs naturally in small amounts in the atmosphere. Although carbon dioxide is a minimal component to the atmosphere, and a minimal contributor to the overall greenhouse effect which keeps our world at habitable temperatures, and that the amount of carbon dioxide that human beings emit in proportion to the overall carbon dioxide level in the atmosphere, those scientists who believe that the Earth’s climate is being impacted by humans point to this carbon dioxide molecule as the culprit. Therefore, the modifier “carbon” in the context of cap and trade issues really refers to carbon dioxide, a natural and relatively beneficial chemical necessary for the climactic and biological processes we see at work around us.
According to proponents of the bill, America must lead the world in showing that we are good stewards of the environment. ACES would force electric companies to encourage people to reduce their use of electricity in order to produce less carbon dioxide. In order to do so the Environmental Protection Agency has already passed regulations that cap the amount of carbon dioxide that the power companies can emit. Under ACES, if these companies exceed the emissions caps on carbon dioxide, they must purchase carbon credits to offset their carbon dioxide emissions.
The Policy Decision: Regulating Carbon Emissions Directly Through Government-Created Markets
These carbon credits can be purchased from companies, countries, or other investors who have already purchased them. These carbon credits are initially available for purchase from a Carbon Exchange Company, established by the government under the auspices of this bill. If a company or other entity emits less carbon dioxide than they are allowed under law, this excess carbon can be sold in the form of credits available on the open market.
Also, in some circumstances, carbon credits will be given to underdeveloped countries for free if they promise not to develop their land and industry. (A side effect of this would be to keep underdeveloped countries from achieving prosperity and keeping them dependent upon the West for international aid.) For example, Indonesia has been promised billions of dollars if they stop the increase in productive use of their countryÂ’s natural resources. Companies which produce too much carbon dioxide will have to purchase carbon credits from the nation of Indonesia for real cash.
The Carbon Exchange, a public-private partnership, holds these credits for carbon investors and charges a transaction fee for trades. Certainly this is tantamount to plucking money out of “thin air!”
If cap and trade passed, this money from thin air would come indirectly from energy consumers: power companies would pass the cost of acquiring necessary carbon credits on to the consumer. Unfortunately, this does not actually reduce carbon dioxide emissions. It only transfers some money from consumers of electricity to carbon under-producers and a percentage for the Carbon Exchange for facilitating the transaction.
Although the scheme works most transparently in the case of power companies, every industry which uses electricity will also have to pay this consumption tax, and pass that cost on to the consumer. Prices of all goods would necessarily skyrocket, as every good produced requires some energy to make or transport to market.
So, since energy costs would increase, people would use less electricity. If they use less electricity, then the power companies would make less profit.
Additionally, power companies would be compelled by ACES to use a higher percentage of so-called “renewable energy” such as wind and solar. These sources produce far less energy per dollar than fossil energy does, shrinking the power company’s margin even further (if it is economically feasible to do so at all). Electricity generated from wind and solar can cost up to five times as much as that produced from coal and oil.
So how can a power company that seeks to stay in business encourage its customers to use less energy when it will cost them much more to produce it? The answer lies within the cap and trade bill again. There is a provision within ACES which provides for the “decoupling” of the production of energy, the stated purpose of a power company, from the company’s profits. Basically, if the electric company encourages people to use less energy, thereby lowering their profits, they would be able to unilaterally raise their rates in order to achieve the same profit margin as they had enjoyed before ACES.
This means electricity will be even more expensive than it would have otherwise been with only the carbon credit scheme and the government mandates to generate more energy from renewable sources. Consumers like you and me will pay the same amount (or more) for the privilege of using less electricity!
In addition to the devastating economic effects of cap and trade, it would likely lead to the same conditions that caused the housing bubble of a few years ago by “providing financial incentives to the federally funded metropolitan planning organizations to shift transportation resources and passengers away from automobiles to public transit and forms of non-motorized transportation such as walking and bicycles. The bill further suggests that these be accomplished through “zoning and other land use regulations” that lead to a more crowded living environment. In turn, these communities of higher population density would be more amenable to forms of transportation common in the decades prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine.” In short, such a bill would “de-develop” suburbs and exurbs since commuters would no longer be able to get to work or civic activities as easily.
Cap-and-trade measures would drive up fossil energy prices, and the results for agriculture (among other sectors) would be severe. The current recession means people are driving less, people are flying less, and companies are pumping out less carbon dioxide because people are simply buying less. The trade off for reduced carbon dioxide emissions is reduced economic activity – or an economy operating well under its potential. Heritage presented good evidence that cap and trade schemes are a universal and regressive tax which would retard economic growth.
Reports the New York Times: “The bill was freighted with hundreds of pages of special-interest favors, even as environmentalists lamented that its greenhouse-gas reduction targets had been whittled down."
Another nail in the cap and trade coffin is, like any large governmental program, it is subject to meddling through crony capitalism and interest-group lobbying. Robert Eschelman interviewed an expert for The Nation in late 2009 who seriously suggests that the only way to keep people from polluting is to tear down the neo-liberal capitalist system and instate something more primitive.
The Politics of Cap and Trade
As of June 2, 2009, even many environmentalists had given up on the bill. It is truly a monstrosity: it would cost consumers plenty, while doing little to reduce global temperatures. But the legislation had something far more important for legislators and special interests alike. It was a pork-fest that wouldn't quit.
Furthermore, in late 2009, a hacker who accessed the databases at East Anglia University, releasing a package of emails from leading climate change scientists (alternatively, it may have been a hacker who accessed their databases), apparently indicating that they were doctoring their reporting to make anthropogenic global warming appear more serious than it is, or possibly hiding the fact that it is not happening at all. Whatever side of the AGW debate one is on, it is clear that the science, formerly declared "settled," was in serious question. James Dellingpole gives a damning critique of Climategate: Manipulation of evidence; Private doubts about whether the world really is heating up; Suppression of evidence; Fantasies of violence against prominent Climate Skeptic scientists; Attempts to disguise the inconvenient truth of the Medieval Warm Period (MWP); and a long series of communications discussing how best to squeeze dissenting scientists out of the peer review process. As the 111th Congress drew to a close, fewer Americans than ever believed in the existence of significant anthropogenic global warming or the necessity of legislation combating it. ("Fewer Americans See Solid Evidence of Global Warming." Pew Research Center. 22 Oct. 2009). Many of the findings of the UN's IPCC were informed by faulty data and unsubstantiated opinion. Senators who had already made several controversial votes on the expansion of the government sought to avoid the issue entirely.
Analysis of the economic impact of Waxman-Markey projects that by 2035 the bill would: “Reduce aggregate gross domestic product (GDP) by $7.4 trillion, Destroy 844,000 jobs on average, with peak years seeing unemployment rise by over 1,900,000 jobs, Raise electricity rates 90 percent after adjusting for inflation, Raise inflation-adjusted gasoline prices by 74 percent, Raise residential natural gas prices by 55 percent, Raise an average family's annual energy bill by $1,500, and Increase inflation-adjusted federal debt by 29 percent, or $33,400 additional federal debt per person, again after adjusting for inflation.”
But not all pushback against cap and trade was legitimate. How hard did lobbyists fight against the passage of cap and trade? One firm forged letters of opposition from traditionally-liberal pressure groups. This indicates that there were serious financial disincentives for businesses potentially affected. Tim Fernholz, it should be noted, was in favor of this and other big-government reforms, once remarking, “One important result may be that, judging by the scoring of the bill and this phenomenon, people aren't going to suffer economically and will become acclimated to this kind of regulatory scheme -- call it the gay-marriage model of legislative progress: One of the best ways to lose credibility is see your apocalyptic warnings proven totally wrong."
Perhaps what finally killed off this bill was adverse public opinion. Both Pew and Gallup saw unprecedented skepticism among the public that there even was a to be solved, and few Americans could even tell you what cap and trade meant, let alone navigate the intricacies of the bill as explained by congressional Democrats and their allies in the old media. By the time the president used a clever legerdemain to sell cap and trade with the BP oil spill, the public had largely decided against supporting this huge reform. Coupled with the poor economy and other large and politically-unpopular programs that the president had asked Congress to work on such as the Recovery Act and Obamacare, government overreach on healthcare "crowded out" government overreach on cap and trade. Ultimately, Democratic Senators could be counted upon to make two very unpopular votes, but not three.
Ways Forward? And Is it Really Necessary?
Lawmakers sympathetic to imposing cap-and-trade schemes to lower emissions have another lifeline to hold on to: EPA regulations. Throughout the last 100 years at least, Congress has de facto delegated much of its authority to legislate to the executive branch, which has picked up the slack through intrusive and comprehensive regulatory bodies. Congress has delegated so much power to the Executive Branch that this type of power grab [passing cap and trade through regulation and not legislation] is not only possible, it's legal and it's common in the 21st century.
Currently as we see gas prices at the pump have doubled under president Obama and no relief in sight, public support for increased domestic oil and gas exploration has increased. The public has no taste for the increased energy prices ACES would bring.
29 out of the 63 defeated House Democrats in the 2010 mid-term election voted for Waxman-Markey. Joe Manchin, a conservative-talking West Virginia Democrat freshman Senator, aired a popular campaign ad showing the candidate shooting the cap and trade bill with a gun. Despite leaving the DNC chair nonplussed, it certainly contributed to his election. Put these stories together, and it appears that there wonÂ’t be much movement on a bill like ACES for a long time to come.
Conclusion
In order to sate the need of a few mandarins ensconced in the bowels of the engine of the ship of state—in order to “lead” on “environmental issues” which are about as scientific as any religion is—the vast mass of humanity would have been saddled with impossible financial burdens. Our national character and culture, bound as it is in mobility, safe and spacious private property, affordable energy, and individual liberty, would be ground up and presented as a burnt offering at the altar of Mother Earth in exchange for no tangible benefit to us or Earth as an entity whatsoever. While there would be the promise of the assuagement of guilt and ultimate salvation, no actual carbon reduction would be achieved since carbon credits are the fiat currency of carbon welfare, and not the miracle cure for dubious climate change.
Even worse, we would be enslaved to underdeveloped countries around the world in a diabolical carbon welfare scheme so nefarious that it is nearly incomprehensible to a moral people. To those who believe that the West has somehow gotten over on the third world and stolen the sovereign wealth of the latter group, this continuous and incontrovertible flow of wealth from producer to non-producer may indeed be a worthy aim in and of itself; and certainly, the sort of person who would believe this would have no qualms about using big government as a cudgel against liberty.
However, Congress is elected to be the representative of the American electorate. If those in Congress truly believe that their constituents wish to make this form of welfare into an untouchable entitlement, it would behoove them to present it openly and honestly, and not cloak it in the pseudo-religion of environmentalism and the moral uprightness of world leadership.
Not only is ACES a bad bill in terms of accomplishing what it says it would accomplish, namely keeping the Earth cooler, but it is also a bad bill for what it would actually accomplish: nationalizing a bigger chunk of every industry (and pocketbook) and transferring wealth to the poor, benighted masses in the pre-developed world.
Be honest, Congress. Try to sell your ideas for wealth redistribution on an international scale on their merits. And if you believe that human beings are negatively affecting the Earth and that a government program is the solution, please find a better one than this. The jobs you save may be your own.
Posted by: Open Blogger at
02:44 PM
| Comments (200)
Post contains 2812 words, total size 18 kb.
With my normal blog luck, this will be up for 20 minutes, and then someone important will be assassinated, necessitating a new post.
Which puts me in the position of selfishly rooting for no assassinations.
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 02:48 PM (I2LwF)
Gonna be a long cold winter.
Posted by: Pecos, Perry in a blaze of Glory at December 17, 2011 02:50 PM (2Gb0y)
Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 17, 2011 02:51 PM (Jr8AS)
Posted by: Trimegistus at December 17, 2011 02:52 PM (/aSzU)
Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 17, 2011 06:51 PM (Jr8AS)
LOL!
Posted by: Pecos, Perry in a blaze of Glory at December 17, 2011 02:52 PM (2Gb0y)
Totally off topic but screw it, This is about the troops. This is a list of comfort items my lodge is send to an outfit in Afcrapistan to hopefully bring them a little christmas cheer. Ohio Dan
2 pkgs. 9 volt batteries,1 multi pack AA batteries, 1 multi pack AAA batteries, 4 compact LED flashlights, 2 Multi tools, 1 bottle Excedrin migraine, 1 bottle aspirin, 2 pkgs. decongestant, 1 bottle ibuprofen, 10 packs tuna, 4 packs slices peperoni, 3 large bags candy, 16 boxes tictacs, 8 multi packs of assorted gum, 2 boxes ziploc bags, 6 personal size hand cream, 12 tubes chapstick, 1 chess/checker set, 2 decks of cards, 1 pkg. safety pins, 6 deodorant sticks, 9 personal size shave cream, 80 disposable razors, 6 personal size shampoo/conditioner, 6 bottles hand sanitizer, 4 cans of cashews and almonds, 1 dozen pens, 8 notepads, assorted sizes, 3 sewing kits, 4 tins of Gold Bond powder, 4 tubes antifungal foot cream, 12 cup-a-noodles, 6 replacement ear buds for ipods and computers, 1 large box of candy canes, 6 large packages wet wipes, 2 cans insect repellant, 6 tubes spf 50 sunscreen, 3 boxes of granola bars, 9 boxes of assorted flavored and unflavored tea, 3 boxes of Knott's cookies, 4 boxes brach's fruit chews, 6 bags nuts and trail mix, 3 bags dried fruit, assorted dvds of movies and TV programs
May God bless them and keep them safe
Posted by: Ohio Dan at December 17, 2011 02:52 PM (JKNDp)
My AAL post sent hand, foot and body warmers this year. The kind hunters around here use.
Keep it up and Thanks.
Posted by: Pecos, Perry in a blaze of Glory at December 17, 2011 02:54 PM (2Gb0y)
A prime example was energy efficiency of houses. If yu did anything to your house that required a building permit, sold the house, or ??? one other that I forget; you had to upgrade the house to CA green standards which in most of the country would be almost impossible without tearing the house down.
My MIL's house was built in the 50s. To upgrade it would require almost a complete rebuild costing in the hundreds of thousands.
This is why I consider anyone who voted for that bill, or who supported it, to have failed a go - no go test. There were 8 Republicans who voted for it in the House.
Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 02:55 PM (YdQQY)
(I joke about tl;dr, that was an excellent overview)
Posted by: alexthechick at December 17, 2011 02:55 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 02:56 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Pecos, Perry in a blaze of Glory at December 17, 2011 02:57 PM (2Gb0y)
There are some human beings that are negatively affecting life on earth and it's just those jobs that we want to eliminate.
Leftist, big government hacks and regulators should be traded on an exchange for something useful.
Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 02:57 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 02:58 PM (7se/h)
Posted by: Molon Labe at December 17, 2011 02:58 PM (/IQEH)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 02:59 PM (niZvt)
That assumes not being in the SE with an all electric home and A/c obviously. I figured my bill would go up on the order of thousands per month.
In short, I would be forced to get a generator and go off the grid (which is what they wanted except with solar/wind). I also believe they had a special tax for generators and BBQ grills too.
Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:00 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:01 PM (7se/h)
Imagine upgrading it to total energy efficiency standards.
Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:02 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Dion at December 17, 2011 03:02 PM (SvieA)
Posted by: wheatie......who still sez ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at December 17, 2011 03:04 PM (HvKWW)
Oh temps would have gone down alright. They have been going down for the past 10 to 15 years anyway and the lying bastards have been hiding that.
The entire scheme is a fraud. The advocates of this crap should go to jail.
Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:06 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Mrs prime minister of Abjnfaieksjsistan at December 17, 2011 03:06 PM (sHY5w)
Who would take them?
Just convert them to biofuel or garden mulch and let's move on.
Posted by: HeatherRadish at December 17, 2011 03:06 PM (hO8IJ)
Odumdum and his Leftist co-conspirators are a day late and about 15 trillion short, on our ledger at least.
But who knows what Bernanke Bucks are really worth on the world market these days.
Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 03:07 PM (HBqDo)
Complete and utter BS based on junk science that lines the pocket of everyone who perpetuates the lies, and what is probably the scariest aspect...all of this swallowed wholly and unblinkingly by a populace that is less and less inclined to think for themselves, and has less common sense collectively than God gave a goat.
Ohio Dan, thank you for what you did and for sharing it; it restored my happy mood. God bless you and everyone else who thought of our service members this year.
Posted by: Tammy al' Thor at December 17, 2011 03:08 PM (SsG4J)
The whole thing about 'cap & trade' from the beginning was to create carbon credits to trade.......not stop polution. The poluters still get to polute, they just buy carbon credits and pass the cost on to the rate-payers.
What was the name of AlGore's carbon trading firm?
Posted by: wheatie......who still sez ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at December 17, 2011 03:08 PM (HvKWW)
Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:08 PM (YdQQY)
Never forget that (now) Senator Kirk voted for this cap-and-trade crap as a US Rep. ALWAYS ask him, every chance you get, about it. Let him know we do not forget.
Posted by: Chester White at December 17, 2011 03:09 PM (Rz4g0)
Real-life temperatures much lower than climate model predictions. Unexpectedly enough.
Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2011 03:10 PM (sHY5w)
Posted by: alexthechick at December 17, 2011 03:10 PM (Gk3SS)
You might want to keep that idea under your hat til you flesh out a business plan, someone just might steal it.
Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 03:14 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:14 PM (7se/h)
Posted by: Vic at December 17, 2011 03:17 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:18 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at December 17, 2011 03:19 PM (sFhEw)
This is an excellent summary, Truman. I recommend the piece linked below as a companion to yours, if only for the bonus Maurice Strong as the Cap on the Cap & Trade pyramid:
The author hits all the big names--yes, Leo Gerard is in there, but surprisingly, no Soros-- and tags the whole den of thieves pretty well.
Posted by: 66chevelle at December 17, 2011 03:19 PM (QjSgY)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:20 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Tammy al' Thor at December 17, 2011 03:24 PM (SsG4J)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:27 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:27 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:28 PM (7se/h)
Posted by: Dion at December 17, 2011 03:29 PM (SvieA)
Hey! Those bunks aren't going to go to themselves you know!
Posted by: alexthechick at December 17, 2011 03:30 PM (Gk3SS)
Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at December 17, 2011 03:30 PM (sFhEw)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:31 PM (7se/h)
Posted by: Mike at December 17, 2011 03:32 PM (0hdwM)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:34 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:36 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 03:40 PM (niZvt)
She looks like she has some 300lb plumber's buttcrack hanging out on her front porch.
Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 03:41 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 03:46 PM (loM0R)
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 03:48 PM (loM0R)
>>Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 07:48 PM (loM0R)
CH vs MO?
It ain't your eyes Dood, you might think about cutting back by about a pint.
Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 03:53 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: Dr. McCoy at December 17, 2011 03:55 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 03:57 PM (loM0R)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 03:58 PM (lIiq2)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at December 17, 2011 04:01 PM (Ho2rs)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at December 17, 2011 04:03 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 04:05 PM (lIiq2)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:06 PM (niZvt)
Sources say likely that Hse somehow alters the Senate-passed bill and kicks it back to the Senate in a game of parliamentary Ping-Pong.
Posted by: Miss'80s at December 17, 2011 04:07 PM (d6QMz)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:08 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:10 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 04:11 PM (lIiq2)
Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 04:12 PM (GTbGH)
I suggest lead & brass after a warning to not cross the borders of the US illegally.
Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston training for the ONT mudwrestling match at December 17, 2011 04:14 PM (ijjAe)
They were emboldened when they got away with telling us what kind of pot to piss in.
Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 04:18 PM (GTbGH)
A good friend of mine who I haven't seen in a few years is a screenplay writer (he's a step or two beyond just starting out, but still new to some things) and he needs info. from a "fighter pilot" to make sure he gets his details right in whatever it is he's writing.
If it matters,the guy is hardcore Conservative, business owner, generally good guy. I know there are a bunch of Vets posting here, but I don't recall a "fighter pilot". Any military pilot would probably be able to answer his questions.
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 17, 2011 04:19 PM (Qjh0I)
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 17, 2011 04:21 PM (Qjh0I)
Posted by: Miss'80s at December 17, 2011 04:22 PM (d6QMz)
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:24 PM (loM0R)
Posted by: Nostradamus at December 17, 2011 04:28 PM (ngvie)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:29 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:30 PM (loM0R)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:33 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:34 PM (niZvt)
Discipline WILL be enforced.
http://tinyurl.com/6rjcn4d
I hope I got a little gold star in heaven last week for not doing this speech @home with Mom, Sis & teen nephews.
Communist, twinkle-toes, sack of shit cocksucker - I want to vote for Sarge.
Posted by: DaveA at December 17, 2011 04:35 PM (/3UeZ)
Price predictions are usually wrong.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 04:35 PM (z0HdK)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:36 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:36 PM (loM0R)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:39 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:41 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:44 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:47 PM (loM0R)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 04:49 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 04:50 PM (loM0R)
Are you talking about Cap&Trade of Sulfur-Dioxide emissions from coal fired power plants? Which has fuck all do with oil prices?
Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 04:54 PM (GTbGH)
They are gone but she is still kicking.
Some of those ladies are funny.
"Save second base"
Posted by: DaveA at December 17, 2011 04:54 PM (/3UeZ)
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2011 04:55 PM (kEKwc)
....oops, I repeat myself.
Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 04:58 PM (HBqDo)
Posted by: yankeefifth at December 17, 2011 05:04 PM (loM0R)
Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:04 PM (GTbGH)
Yes to 'toby' - crude oil pricing is impacted by sulfur content. We like the sweet crude here in the good ole regulated acid rain free new USA.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:07 PM (z0HdK)
Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:08 PM (GTbGH)
Sound like a plan?
Posted by: franksalterego at December 17, 2011 05:09 PM (9XykO)
Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:09 PM (GTbGH)
Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:11 PM (oibxU)
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 09:07 PM (z0HdK)
Heh, wrap your lips around that 36" pipe that will be running from Canada to Houston soon (thank you Obama for continuing to be a pussy) and taste that sweet Canada tar sands oil.
Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:12 PM (MtwBb)
Buckley of William was certainly an intellectual of the conservative persuasion.
I can't name a current one though. George Will is cast as one though. He has the look.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:14 PM (z0HdK)
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:15 PM (Zw/H7)
My man just withheld the KXL approval as a poker chip to hold his payroll tax cuts in place.
Alberta tar oil has been flowing to an Illini refiner for years. KXL just makes the route more direct to Texas where they refine Hugo's heave tar shit.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:17 PM (z0HdK)
I was going to make some snarky comment about this being one of the most boring movies ace has ever reviewed, but I see I'm about 130 comments too late.
That's ok though, Ohio just came back and beat Utah State in the last 20 seconds to give me 4 points on the day in the pick'em thing! I love college football.
Posted by: OSUsux at December 17, 2011 05:17 PM (aOaj7)
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2011 05:17 PM (kEKwc)
Buckley of William was certainly an intellectual of the conservative persuasion.
I can't name a current one though. George Will is cast as one though. He has the look."
His son sucks. Wasnt his son fired from the NY Times? His pieces certainly sucked.
George was a force 25 years ago, pretty much silent today.
Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:18 PM (oibxU)
Good heavens that's a long post. I bet it has a lot of facts and stuff. I'll never know.
Posted by: Jones at December 17, 2011 05:18 PM (8sCoq)
It costs me 2. It's tough to do the pick'em on teams you haven't seen play.
Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:18 PM (GTbGH)
_______
Yeah, the game was on at the place where I foraged for dinner.
You can always count on the Aggies to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Not that I'm bitter or anything.
Posted by: Anachronda, USU class of '86 at December 17, 2011 05:19 PM (6fER6)
Posted by: Nostradamus at December 17, 2011 05:19 PM (ngvie)
Alberta tar oil has been flowing to an Illini refiner for years. KXL just makes the route more direct to Texas where they refine Hugo's heave tar shit.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 09:17 PM (z0HdK)
Is your man that same pussy we call Mr. President who made the gutsy call that he would veto any attempt to tie the pipeline to the social security tax cut?
Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:19 PM (MtwBb)
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:22 PM (Zw/H7)
Buckley vs Chomsky on Youtube. Two intellectuals squaring off without some asshole moderator.
Those days are over - sadly.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:22 PM (z0HdK)
Don't call his bluff!
Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:22 PM (GTbGH)
Posted by: sifty at December 17, 2011 05:23 PM (WsOiK)
Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:26 PM (oibxU)
Political proclamations are numerous and worth in inverse proportion to their frequency.
Dallas 21 TB 0 - sorry ass game tonight.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:26 PM (z0HdK)
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:28 PM (I2LwF)
Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:30 PM (MtwBb)
You seem ok Truman, and hope they ban the evil dmv z or whatever his name is. I think the dm is sweet on miss tammie.
Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:30 PM (oibxU)
14th CD = Soon-to-be-retired Ron Paul
Posted by: M80B at December 17, 2011 05:31 PM (d6QMz)
"Obama's sweet crude Obama's sweet crude"
just to get the tongue moving around
I refer to it as giving myself a "Chomsky" .
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:32 PM (Zw/H7)
102 (Stigler) is just as important as 101.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:34 PM (z0HdK)
Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:37 PM (MtwBb)
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:37 PM (I2LwF)
The House will likely modify or send to conference a Senate-passed bill to temporarily extend jobless benefits and the payroll tax cut when the chamber returns Monday, prolonging a session already well past its target end-date.
The chamber will also vote on the Senate-passed version of the bill, according to the office of House Majority Leader Eric Cantor. The Virginia Republican's office sent a release Saturday night indicating that votes are possible on Tuesday as well.
Posted by: M80B at December 17, 2011 05:38 PM (d6QMz)
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:38 PM (I2LwF)
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 09:37 PM (I2LwF)
Nope, Random was giving us some knowledge on all he learned at the German Hygiene Museum but no.
Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:39 PM (MtwBb)
Krugman? He was bashing Paul so that put a little salt on my peter.
Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:40 PM (oibxU)
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:40 PM (I2LwF)
From the evil one? From the hater of free speech?
Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:41 PM (oibxU)
Posted by: Peaches at December 17, 2011 05:42 PM (Xroyj)
Walter Russel Mead just published a piece with the title of the decade:
Angela Merkel: Herding Cats Over A Cliff
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:42 PM (I2LwF)
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:43 PM (I2LwF)
Posted by: buzzion at December 17, 2011 05:45 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:47 PM (z0HdK)
You read Gilder? And yet the proggers get your vote? You are conflicted.
Posted by: toby928© at December 17, 2011 05:48 PM (GTbGH)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (Mrdk1)
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (I2LwF)
Posted by: buzzion at December 17, 2011 09:45 PM (GULKT)"
Stupido, he was of the left, not the fascist right
Posted by: Hitch at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (oibxU)
I am more like Bruce Bartlett than Robert Reich. The GOP lost me with Bush-Cheney.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (z0HdK)
I second that.
Posted by: Peaches at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (Xroyj)
Posted by: CoolCzech at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (niZvt)
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:53 PM (I2LwF)
Posted by: Truman North at December 17, 2011 05:55 PM (I2LwF)
The WEEC is looking for abstracts at the next conference. You have the paper already written. You should go for it.
Posted by: sTevo at December 17, 2011 05:55 PM (VMcEw)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at December 17, 2011 05:56 PM (Mrdk1)
He is insane today - more like a Santorum than a capitalist.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 05:58 PM (z0HdK)
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 09:53 PM (z0HdK)
That's too bad, what turned you off about them, doubling the troops in afghanistan, killing american citizens with drones with no trial or charges, signing an executive order that american citizens could be held indefinitely at Gitmo without due process, extending the tax cuts for the rich or the massive spending? Oh wait, that's Obama. Sorry.
Posted by: robtr at December 17, 2011 05:59 PM (MtwBb)
I can't name a current one though. George Will is cast as one though. He has the look.
Of course you can't, Clarence. That is because you are incapable of recognizing one until after they are dead.
Jonah Goldberg had a column about this not long ago - about how conservative intellectuals are hardly ever recognized for their brilliance by the left when they are alive. It isn't enough for them to disagree with conservatives - they cannot even acknowledge that some of them may actually be smart.
I think most of us would at least recognize that liberals like Krugman and Stiglitz are in fact smart, even if we disagree with about 100% of what they write. But WFB? It is only okay to admit he's smart only after he's dead. When he was alive, he was a bombastic patrician, a crazy anticommunist, a closet racist opposed to the Civil Rights Act, etc.
That is mainly because the left's caricature of conservatism is that it is fundamentally stupid. Crass flag-waving patriotism, redneck Bible-thumping, greedy Scrooge McDucks hoarding cash, etc.
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 06:00 PM (s7mIC)
Religion is primary. Unless a culture is aspiring toward the good, the true, and the beautiful, and wants the good and the true, really worships God, it readily worships Satan. If we turn away from God, our culture becomes dominated by “Real Crime Stories” and rap music and other spew... When the culture becomes corrupt, then the businesses that serve the culture also become corrupt... Secular culture is in general corrupt, and degraded, and depraved. Because I don’t believe in secular culture, I think parochial schools are the only real schools
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:03 PM (z0HdK)
They are apostates - RINOs.
No, I cannot name a single Tea Party conservative that I respect and that has written something of note.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:08 PM (z0HdK)
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:13 PM (z0HdK)
I'm proud of my ingenuity but I have no one to share it with except of course my upstairs neighbor aka Mom.
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:26 PM (Zw/H7)
You're half right. One intellectual and one leftist cockholster.
Posted by: meekrob at December 17, 2011 06:26 PM (/0HuL)
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 06:35 PM (Zw/H7)
Posted by: Clarence at December 17, 2011 10:13 PM (z0HdK)
That's not what the Dems of the 80's said. In the 80's, Mondale and Dukakis were brilliant champions of the "little guy".
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 07:35 PM (s7mIC)
How about Sowell?
How about Scalia?
How about Ponnuru?
They aren't necessarily "Tea Party Conservatives" per se but they are smart, intelligent conservative men, who are not nearly as moderately RINOish as Frum and Brooks.
This is exactly the same phenomenon that Goldberg was describing.
While Scalia is alive - he's a monster, who would want to be like him?
Once Scalia is dead - he's a smart brilliant conservative, and why can't you modern-day conservatives be more like that intelligent Scalia fellow?
Posted by: chemjeff at December 17, 2011 07:39 PM (s7mIC)
179 No worries, Yip. Someone upthread concisely summarized it: "It's a scam."
It's a very nicely written piece though, Truman.
Posted by: wheatie......who still sez ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at December 18, 2011 03:49 AM (HvKWW)
I'm happy to have read this EXCELLENT article of yours. You are truly one of the men who make this such a smart blog, and I'm glad it didnt get bumped and we got to read it - for selfish reasons too!
Posted by: MoJoTee at December 18, 2011 09:36 AM (e1kfW)
Posted by: Ryt at December 18, 2011 11:38 AM (WsEsA)
Posted by: kadin at December 21, 2011 03:23 AM (wOHIa)
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Posted by: ontherocks at December 17, 2011 02:47 PM (HBqDo)