1 Remember the rock, we much.

2 He might be the only candidate that gets it...

3 Yeah he is authentic, that's one of the reasons I support him.

4 That made me cry Ace. I love that man. He should be president.

5 "Hard Road" Old men crying, young men dying World still turns as Father Time looks on On and on Children playing, dreamers praying Laughter turns to tear as love has gone Has it gone? Oh, it's a hard road Oh, it's a hard road Whirlwind churning, lovers learning On this path of life we can't back down Is it wrong? Widows weeping, babies sleeping Life becomes the singer and the song Sing along Oh, it's a hard road Carry your own load. ***

6 Said it in the Paul thread, but John King is saying on Twitter that Perry is seeing an uptick in Iowa in numbers and buzz. Keep hope alive.

7 HEARTLESS!!

8 Perry speaks the language-do the sheltered civilians still hear him...

9 Two debates left (I think) before Iowa. If he doesn't screw up, who knows. if he does screw up, I guess I have to seriously start making that "Newt or Mitt" choice I've been avoiding.

10 Our soldiers are giving away their mental state so that we can live in freedom.

I gave away my own mental state just for the hell of it.

11 He cannot debate and his immigration views are suspect to say the least. As is quite obvious the debates are going to play a large role this time around. Newt is winning because he wins debates. Perry against SCOAMF and the media, no thank you.

12 8 Perry speaks the language-do the sheltered civilians still hear him... It could be 2, 5, 10 or 50 years but it can happen here. If we don't reverse this slouching to socialism America could look like France circa 1945. Don't think it can happen? Guess again.

13 I read somewhere (hell it might have been here) that Perry's ground forces will be hitting Iowa hard between now and the caucus.  I am already seeing a slight uptick in the polls.  Sure hope he can make a decent showing there.

14 Why are Newt and Mitt going after each other for being wealthy?  Talk about a lose-lose situation.


Too bad Perry is such a bad campaigner.

15  Perry against SCOAMF and the media, no thank you.

Posted by: Big T Party at December 14, 2011 06:48 PM (hC5jI)

That should be us against the media.

16 I'll add I think this becomes a three man race between Perry, Newt, and Romney. Santorum might stay in but he has no legitimate chance as of right now. Once it gets to a three man race anything can happen.

17 15 In a debate, post debate format we cannot win without a blowout.

18 8 Perry speaks the language-do the sheltered civilians still hear him...

Posted by: tasker at December 14, 2011 06:44 PM (r2PLg)

 

We're doing our part to make sure they don't.

19 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

20 Perry - flogging a dead horse here people.

21 9 Two debates left (I think) before Iowa. If he doesn't screw up, who knows. if he does screw up, I guess I have to seriously start making that "Newt or Mitt" choice I've been avoiding. Posted by: ace at December 14, 2011 06:47 PM (nj1bB) If it comes down to Newt or Mitt... I guess I'll opt for Mitt. Ultimately, Newt is just a loose cannon, going all over the place ideologically for no apparent reason. Yeah, Romney flips and flops for convenience... but at least convenience is a rational, if not very admirable, reason. Who can fathom what drives Newt at times?

22 Why is Ace still pushing this guy? His polling numbers against Obama are some of the lowest of any of the candidates out there.

23

In a debate, post debate format we cannot win without a blowout.

I'm pretty convinced that no matter what prep he does before a Perry-Obama debate, not only would the media savage Perry...but he'd savage himself.

I can't see him getting enough coaching about thinking faster on your feet between now and then.

And I don't think anyone is going to be able to wipe the smirk off his face.  That's a killer in a debate.

 

24 Rick Perry + John Bolton - (Silver dimes ÷ 2) = Crazy Delicious

25 Said it in the Paul thread, but John King is saying on Twitter that Perry is seeing an uptick in Iowa in numbers and buzz.

Thank God that somewhere in this country there are people who understand that this is a presidential election that will revolve around Jesus and gays!

26 I live in CA.
Nothing matters.
Matter is energy.

27

@10: "Our soldiers are giving away their mental state so that we can live in freedom."

We respectfully disagree with that last bit.

28 Perry is in a good place politically. And there's low expectations. Second place in Iowa would be a win, and... he's back in biz.

29 @14 Why are Newt and Mitt going after each other for being wealthy? Talk about a lose-lose situation. Too bad Perry is such a bad campaigner. Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 14, 2011 06:50 PM (JYheX) Actually, Perry is a great campaigner. Try to see him on the stump if you can. Problem is: he's a lousy debater. But, the upside is that he's consistently shown he's willing to learn. which is a rare trait in a politician. I hope he can bounce back. Yeah, he won't beat Obama like a drum like Gingrich can but I suspect he'll be able to hold his own with BO because he'll be willing to call Obama out and president Thinskin won't be able to handle it.

30 who wins the bar fight:  George Kennedy or Brian Dennehy ??

who wins the primary......less important.  Romney is like a nutcracker, splitting each contender into nuts

31

@10: "Our soldiers are giving away their mental state so that we can live in freedom."

Gracias, senior.

32 31 @10: "Our soldiers are giving away their mental state so that we can live in freedom." Gracias, senior. Now Go Home to Europe, Yankee Gringo! Posted by: Illegal "immigrants" at December 14, 2011 07:00 PM (uTGQs) FTFY!

33 32 Too bad we don't have a candidate with Newt's brain, Perry's heart, and Mitt's Money. Posted by: runninrebel at December 14, 2011 07:01 PM (N/1Dm) Or Christina Hendrick's boobs.

34 Oh come on ... by the time Obama gets to debate a Republican imagine how you, and the rest of the country, will react to these phrases: Let me be clear ... saved or created ... . We will be inoculated against this and ANY Republican who goes into this debate will have the ability to bring up Obama's record. Hell, Perry being able to say "Hell, Mr President, ** I ** inherited a George Bush economy - you don't see me here whining like a pig with its head stuck in the trough." would clinch the election. Clinch. It.

35 I watched this video last night. I paints Perry in a good light. Undoubtedly, he has good qualities. Perry's main rival is, I think, Newt. Romney's on the way out, slowly, and never could rise to the level that both Perry and Newt enjoyed anyway. Someone challenged me last night on why I support Newt Gingrich. Well, aside from Newt's exceptional knowledge on foreign policy (which my challenger gracefully conceded), I added a few points on my memories of how Gingrich made big, positive changes for the country when in Congress, and on how he had effectively campaigned this year. Tony Blankley worked for Gingrich and he puts it better than I ever could, on Newt's leadership and protection of core conservative goals while he was speaker and before. I will not attempt a litany of reasons now. Please read this with the same earnest seriousness of purpose that you watched Perry's video. Blankley also makes commentary on the grave threat the nation is under right now and with how voters perceive this election, why it is so topsy-turvy compared to previous primaries. Ace, it's worth reading for that reason alone. I hope you all read it and reflect, even fellow Newt supporters. It puts into words what I've been thinking and feeling: Newt's Past and Future Leadership By Tony Blankley

36 A thought on Romney based on his record in Mass.

I perceive Mitt to be neither current version of left, center, conservative, or right.  He is an executive.  He is a person that believes he can make government work, unfortunately he is half right.  He can make government work about as well as it is ever going to.  Right now he would be the ideal candidate for the statist left, who are facing a crisis where even their own people have nearly lost total faith and trust in government even growing antagonistic to it.  Which is why even Democrats have become the party of, "yea government sucks but here's your check, please dont ask where it comes from."

This is also why Romney should scare conservatives.  We live in a time of government behaving as the Kraken.  Romney will be able to get it working just well enough that people go back to sleep.  Not that they will trust government but its actions will seem more mundane.  This is probably the worst possible thing for America right now.  Romney giving the day of reckoning for statist extra innings.

My expectation is that by the end of Romneys term government will be:
- a bit larger then it is now
- debt growing a bit more slowly
- currency weak but not destroyed

But, worst of all the people will be acclimated to that state of existence.  I am a big fan of observing the ebb and flow of peoples, and Romneys brand of statist chloroform will be just the nail in the coffin the statists need to survive.

37 My past leadership led my party right into the shitter in the late '90s and my future leadership can do it again.

Join me!  And together we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the minority.... wait, what?

38 If it comes down to Gingrich or Romney- I'm tending strongly toward Gingrich. There are only 2 politicians who've managed to significantly change the way Washington works: Reagan and Gingrich. And it was an uphill battle for both. That takes guts or teh zany, either way. Gingrich has lead a Conservative victory. Romney? Well, he's led Democrat victories-.... Romneycare anyone? But lead a conservative victory? Nope, none, nada. Not impressed.

39 I'll add I think this becomes a three man race between Perry, Newt, and Romney. Santorum might stay in but he has no legitimate chance as of right now. Once it gets to a three man race anything can happen.

Maybe, but you'll rarely lose betting that Iowa caucus voters will do something stupid.

40 Well look, Perry fans: no need to try to convince anyone. If Perry can stage a comeback, we'll see him do it in the next few weeks or he may as well start looking thru the want ads. I have to say, though, that he's not the kind of guy that the more you see of him, the more you like him. There's something about that smirk of his, the way he turns to smile at the audience after he thinks he just zinged his opponent during an exchange that is starting to grate.

41 Has anyone shown this tape to Michelle Malkin?

42 Well put, naturalfake. Have you read Tony Blankley's article linked in comment 36?

43 "Gingrich has lead a Conservative victory." That is undeniably true - to take the House, and Welfare Reform. I lean toward Romney, but won't lose sleep over Newt getting it. I just wish he was more predictable.

44 43 Has anyone shown this tape to Michelle Malkin? Posted by: tasker at December 14, 2011 07:09 PM (r2PLg) Does she even matter anymore?

45 @44 Not yet. I'm going there now.

46

There's something about that smirk of his, the way he turns to smile at the audience after he thinks he just zinged his opponent during an exchange that is starting to grate.

I've said that before too CC.

He's got that "second coming of George Bush" vibe that is NOT going to play well with a lot of independents. 

The voice of a thousand dinner table conversations....

"No way honey, I voted for a stupid Texas cowboy twice, I'm not going to make it three times."

47 I will be proud to vote for Perry. 

48 Yeah, I still like the guy, and still want to vote for him. The reason some of us seem a little butt hurt about the strong ad is that it's the first time he's said anything that kind of really bothered me. I don't mind any of his debate gaffs, makes him seem more human, in a way. That being said he's got the best track record of all the candidates, and I hope he can pull out a suprise in Iowa. A strong third place might get the ball rolling.

49 Once you've see my ad for Johnny Walker Black, you'll want some alone time with my rack.

50

I am still for Perry, Mitt if Perry doesn't make it. If Newt stays on top I will find another hobby other than politices next year. I will show up and vote for him unless there is something good on the oxygen channel but that's about it.

I live in Washington, we don't even have a presidential primary this year and it's over by the time it gets to us anyways so I am hostage to what ever the rest of the country decides. Mitt is the only one that stands a chance of winning in Washington and that is a slim one. Although I do here people say they would vote for him over Obama. Perry no way, Newt hell no.

My vote won't count no matter what happens probably.

51 If it comes down to Newt or Mitt... I guess I'll opt for Mitt. Ultimately, Newt is just a loose cannon, going all over the place ideologically for no apparent reason. Yeah, Romney flips and flops for convenience... but at least convenience is a rational, if not very admirable, reason.

I hate to say it, but I think you may be on to something there.

52 Did someone say "dark and textured"?

53 No way!

54 43 Has anyone shown this tape to Michelle Malkin?

Why bother?  She'll never admit she was wrong. 

55 Who really thinks Newt would poll better (sans debates) against Obama than Perry? Seriously, NEWT? Really???? We're fucked, I say give Obama another 4 years, we'll be so desperate then we might actually nominate a real and talented conservative for once. Ryan/Rubio | Rubio/Ryan '16!

56 I say give Obama another 4 years, we'll be so desperate then we might actually nominate a real and talented conservative for once.

That's what we said four years ago.

57 Resistance is futile.

58 Rick W. Perry.

Is our children still learning?

59

Who really thinks Newt would poll better (sans debates) against Obama than Perry? Seriously, NEWT? Really????

Me. 

...and it isn't just debates.  Perry has an inability to think on his feet. 

Newt will take Obama to the woodshed, even if Obama refuses to debate him.

60 That being said he's got the best track record of all the candidates, and I hope he can pull out a suprise in Iowa. A strong third place might get the ball rolling.

Third place wouldn't be enough unless it was something like a 3 way tie- it would likely have to be either a win or a close second.

Perry won't place well in NH, but a strong showing in IA and SC would change his fortunes significantly.

I just don't know if there's time to make that happen.

61 "I believe all of us have a responsibility to help pay for health care." -- Newt Gingrich Fuck Newt.

62 I'm not always a huge Perry fan, but if that were turned into a campaign ad, the race would be over tomorrow.  Take time for the whole thing.... absolute sincerity.  Compare that to Obama's disregard and disrespect of our military and use of them as props like he did today.

63

I'd rather die than to allow a Mexican loving, vaccine pimping, debate flubbing RINO to be my nominee. 

Look it here, chumps, this Perry RINO would be the worst nominee since Bushleague2 sullied our party by winning the presidency.  First off, since when does flying planes in the Air Force count for anything in a presidential candidate?  Hell, I've done more for my country than any of these Air Force flyboys.  While Perry was busy sucking taxpayer dollars in the Air Force I was reading the National Review and writing letters to the editors of the New York Times and the Washington Post.  Perry's got nothing on me as far as service to the cause.

Then RINO Perry becomes a Democrat, for hell's sake.  Only over your dead body will I allow a former Democrat to be my Republican nominee.  As Ronald Reagan said:  "Any former Democrat is a RINO chump!"

Then to top it off RINO Perry gets all uppity and eventually becomes the governor of the left-wing State of Taxes.  Not only that but he has the audacity to stay governor for over a decade.  This makes me want to projectile vomit.  Having a career GOP politician in office is worse than having a liberal Democrat in office.  As my man Newt Gingrich said:  "Career politicians are nothing but RINO chumps!"  My man Jim DeMint seconded that wisdom.

So to summarize, pukes:  If RINO Perry gets the nomination not only will I vote for Obama I'll vote Democrat on all down-ticket races too, to send my messages and to prove my points.

Gingrich-Cain-Bachmann, '12.

64

Newt will take Obama to the woodshed, even if Obama refuses to debate him.

And a large percentage of the electorate (women) won't notice, and will be repelled in general by pasty, old, dour uncharismatic Newtie.

We give the electorate too much credit in the rational department.

65 I'm beginning to think the presumption that Newt is an uglier version of Romney has merit. He panders well to the base but that's really the only major distinction between him and Romney. It disgusts me that so many consider him to be a bona fide conservative considering how often he's stabbed us in the back for the sake of leftist causes. The only reason we haven't truly felt that impact is because he hasn't been in office when making these flip flops.

66

Third place wouldn't be enough unless it was something like a 3 way tie- it would likely have to be either a win or a close second.

Third place is something if it's a strong showing (15-18% or so), and Dr. RON PAUL is in second.

That's basically 2nd place.

67
The slow burn is beta male strategy. Just keep hanging around, being a nice guy while the girl dates other guys. He can't get stuck in the friend zone. That guy never gets the girl in real life. He gets forgotten.

It worked for Nixon. Not in the Presidential race, but with his wife.

I'm just saying.

68 We give the electorate too much credit in the rational department.

Yes, suckers.  Yes, you do.

69 Posted by: Totally Irrational Political Malcontent I seriously LOLed. Then started crying.

70 Well I don't know how many people currently support Newt do so because they think he is a "real conservative".  I think they're doing it just because they don't want Mitt to win.  That's why it is only a matter of time until Ron Paul gets his time in the sun.  After all, he's not Mitt either, is he?

71 60 Rick W. Perry.

Is our children still learning?

Posted by: Clarence at December 14, 2011 07:25 PM (z0HdK)

You obviously haven't. How's that Stuttering Clusterfuck Of A Miserable Failure workin out for you?

72 No way, this isn't real?

73

Posted by: Christina Hendricks' Mighty Jugs Supports Rick Perry's Hair for President at December 14, 2011 07:29 PM (xMHpX)

 

Medicare and Medicaid much?

Veterans Health Administration?

 

74 75 No way, this isn't real?

Nice. 

75 Newt has peaked. Let him cheat on Calista with Andy Stern.

76 Gingrot cannot beat Obama in a debate!

What will he do?  Call Obama a SECULAR SO-SHALL-IST?

Obama wins there easy - the Constitution is secular!  Do you want a state religion?

All the top capitalists support Obama.  Ask Buffett, Soros, Gates, Brin, Page, Ellison, Jobs (RIP).

Cmon - the market is up 40% under Obama.

Gingrot will wilt.  He can only debate other wingnuts.

77 FWIW, McCain came in fourth place for Iowa and we all thought he was dead and out then (well at least I did)

78 Gingrot cannot beat Obama in a debate!



I get it now, you're a comedian.

79

Cmon - the market is up 40% under Obama.

 

You're welcome.

80

Newtie wins Iowa but Perry manages to get a bit more support than Mittens.

Mittens narrowly wins NH over the Newt.

Well, then, South Carolina gets pretty interesting.  Perry has a fighting chance.

Whatever.  Mittens or Perry over the Newt.

81 Cmon - the market is up 40% under Obama.




You really don't have clue fucking one why that is though, do you.

82 Come on, Perry---- We are pulling for you!!!!!

83
82.

Ben helped a lot.

Point for you.

84 After a slow start, today has AoS 'en fuego'!!! and I missed the best part parts of it.

85 chemjeff, According to Gallup I think 57% consider Newt a bona fide conservative. Scary shit. It's not merely the NOT ROMNEY factor playing I think. We really are that fucking stupid.

86 Well I don't know how many people currently support Newt do so because they think he is a "real conservative".  I think they're doing it just because they don't want Mitt to win.  That's why it is only a matter of time until Ron Paul gets his time in the sun.  After all, he's not Mitt either, is he?

Read Tony Blankley's article and you'll have a better idea of why many people support Newt.

87 Nobody listens to comments delivered from the bottom of a well.

88 FWIW, McCain came in fourth place for Iowa and we all thought he was dead and out then (well at least I did)

Yeah, but McCain then won NH, something Perry has almost no chance of doing.

89 Hmmm...some of the recipients of the original Climategate emails are having search warrants dropped on their heads and apparently there's been some US DOJ enforcement action pointed at Wordpress: tallbloke.wordpress.com noconsensus.wordpress.com

90

Ben helped a lot.

 

Fuck Yeah, I did...

I'm monetizing all your all's debt!

91
Winnowing the Field

"We fear that to nominate former Speaker Newt Gingrich, the frontrunner in the polls, would be to blow this opportunity. We say that mindful of his opponents’ imperfections — and of his own virtues, which have been on display during his amazing comeback. Very few people with a personal history like his — two divorces, two marriages to former mistresses — have ever tried running for president. Gingrich himself has never run for a statewide office, let alone a national one, and has not run for anything since 1998. That year he was kicked out by his colleagues, the most conservative ones especially, who had lost confidence in him. During his time as Speaker, he was one of the most unpopular figures in public life. Just a few months ago his campaign seemed dead after a series of gaffes and resignations.....

"Gingrich’s colleagues were.... right to bring his tenure to an end. His character flaws — his impulsiveness, his grandiosity, his weakness for half-baked (and not especially conservative) ideas — made him a poor Speaker of the House. Again and again he combined incendiary rhetoric with irresolute action, bringing Republicans all the political costs of a hardline position without actually taking one. Again and again he put his own interests above those of the causes he championed in public."

92 Well, Rush is probably going to endorse Bachmann and Beck, who fucking knows? It sure as hell won't be Newt or Romney.

93 Hmmm...some of the recipients of the original Climategate emails are having search warrants dropped on their heads and apparently there's been some US DOJ enforcement action pointed at Wordpress:

tallbloke.wordpress.com
noconsensus.wordpress.com

Posted by: JEM at December 14, 2011 07:46 PM

Thanks for the update. I'm a bit fucking outraged.

94 I forwarded it to everyone I know. I am on the Perry train. I aint getting off of it. He is genuinely a good guy, I believe. That's important to me. ------ Me too, us too. We are clinging to the bitter end. Hopefully in a good way.

95 95 I forwarded it to everyone I know.
I am on the Perry train. I aint getting off of it. He is genuinely a good guy, I believe.
That's important to me.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at December 14, 2011 07:48 PM (qjUnn)

Ditto, JJS, Ditto.

96 I am on the Perry train. I aint getting off of it. He is genuinely a good guy, I believe.
That's important to me.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at December 14, 2011 07:48 PM (qjUnn)

Agreed! I fear he won't last but I know a good dude when I see him.

97 Read Tony Blankley's article and you'll have a better idea of why many people support Newt.

Posted by: Random at December 14, 2011 07:43 PM (YiE0S)

You see that is why I don't trust Gingrich, Tony Blankley or Bill Clinton.

The Budget never was balanced. We borrowed money in every fucking year of the Clinton Administration. Every goddamn one. The least amount we borrowed was $18 Billion. Now that is close to being balanced but Newts BS about 4 years of balanced budgets is a lie, it's Washington accounting gimmicks to fool the rubes.

98 Sorry, was the 2011 Climategate release not the 2009. At any rate at least one UK blogger's been raided, rumors of letters from US DOJ to Wordpress, remains to be seen where it goes from here.

99 The Budget never was balanced. We borrowed money in every fucking year of the Clinton Administration. You know who does have a record of keeping a balanced budget? Senior Heartless Perryisto!

100 "Greatest Nation In History"

That's the cue for a wallet-ectomy.

101 58 I say give Obama another 4 years, we'll be so desperate then we might actually nominate a real and talented conservative for once.

That's what we said four years ago.

Yeah. Well, I didn't. But yes, it was said.

Obama says he needs four more years to "finish the job," and for once I believe him. He just might do exactly that.

Also, picture a couple more Supreme Court justices like the caricatures he nominated. That vision alone would make me vote for Huntsman over Obama, and I can't frickin' stand Huntsman. Hell, I'd vote for RonPaul over Obama, even if I knew he would go into a coma after two years and give a formal blessing to Iran for their nuclear ambitions. I might even vote for Ru Paul. How the hell could it be worse than what we have now?

102 The Budget never was balanced. We borrowed money in every fucking year of the Clinton Administration.

By law, a FICA surplus must be invested in Treasuries so debt went up for sure.  You must understand double entry accounting.  It only goes back to the Medici.

the $235 billion Clinton surplus was real.

103 Is Ace not a veteran? I always assumed he is.

104 Is Ace not a veteran?

There was that skirmish on Endor ...

105 btw, for all of you entertaining the fantasy of Obama shaking in his boots over the thought of debating Noot Gingrich, wake up.

106 107 Nah. He's a New Yorker.

107 109 btw, for all of you entertaining the fantasy of Obama shaking in his boots over the thought of debating Noot Gingrich, wake up.

Would you care to provide an actual argument? Or was the "wake up" part the whole thing?

108 90 Nobody listens to comments delivered from the bottom of a well.

Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at December 14, 2011 07:44 PM (7+pP9)

LOL!  Wanna race to the bottom of the well, Ed?

Ready, set, ............GO!

109 I always did love a man in uniform.

Ace, will you wear a uniform while you kiss my beak tonight?

110

Also, picture a couple more Supreme Court justices like the caricatures he nominated.

A mostly lesbian supreme court? Interesting yet ugly. I guess they would stop taking pics. Poor Antonin.

111 Get back under the stairs now, Clarence

112 Just judging by my FB newsfeed, Rick Perry is the new Bush/Palin.  Started with the "anti-gay" ad.

113 I'm in Rick's corner all the way he is the only that supports our Troops.

114 I mostly liked his answers, but DAMN was he stiff.

115 No matter who gets the Rebuplican nomination, no matter who is the next President, we are boned.  Just ask Monty.  We are Wile E. Coyote just after he runs off a cliff hanging in mid air.Gravity will smash us into the canyon floor soon.

116 Hard to type my rants on this stupid smart phone. 'Wake up' will have to do, for now. Sorry, broseph.

117

Hey, those 100 Ace-Watt bulbs work great! Bright and steady white light!

So today we find that Romney is channeling the KKK, Newt is a progressive commie, Perry is "lost in thought" and Ron Paul is riding a surging mount from Place to Win in the Iowa horse race.

And now Ron wants to wrap it up early, so he can catch some zzzzzz's.

Oh and teh Donald may still run, on the Internet, maybe as a "click and paste candidate?

Oh Yeah, almost forgot these guys: http://zapit.nu/DreamOn

And lastly: SCOAMF

118 By law, a FICA surplus must be invested in Treasuries so debt went up for sure.  You must understand double entry accounting.  It only goes back to the Medici.

the $235 billion Clinton surplus was real.

Posted by: Clarence at December 14, 2011 07:59 PM (z0HdK)

Clarence, you are so full of shit. For one thing counting FICA surpluses against as part of the general fund is a scam. Reagan raised taxes to make sure it would have surpluses to take care of the baby boomers.

To your point of investing those surpluses in Treasureys, for one it's not true. FICA surpluses are invested in special government bonds seperate from securities that cannot be traded as securities and if they were the government would have shown a positive cash balance of $235 Billion instead of a negative $18 Billion.

The $18 Billion was in public debt, not intragoverment debt. It's two different things squirt. In Clintons lowest year he borrowed $18 Billion in public debt.

119

OMG ABO

Obama must go,

Anyone but O.

 

120 Thaddeus McCotter 2012!!! Come on now everyone. Hop on the McCotter ultra-mini bus. Pretty please. We have plenty of room. Its just me and the bus driver until he finds out that his next pay check will bounce.....

121

ABO for real.

I've never prayed for cancer on anybody but guess what?

 

122 robtr - look at the $15 trillion total cumulative debt vs the "public" debt of roughly $10 trillion.

The delta of $5 trillion is inter-government debt - FICA and Medicare for the most part.

Yes, this is "special purpose" government Treasuries.  So who gets paid first?  Social Security or the Chinese/Arabs?

The answer - the short bonds do.

123 Yes, this is "special purpose" government Treasuries.  So who gets paid first?  Social Security or the Chinese/Arabs?

The answer - the short bonds do.

Posted by: Clarence at December 14, 2011 08:14 PM (z0HdK)

That's what I said squirt and you are wrong again, $2.5 Trillion is FICA and the rest is the Fed. My point was that Clinton increased the public debt $18 Billion in his lowest year. That doesn't equal a surplus.

124 Posted by: Ben Bernanke at December 14, 2011 07:40 PM (nbq7p)
Not if you price it in constant oz of GOLD!

125 here is the SSA bond table.

During the Clinton years assets (bonds) went up about $100 billion/yr

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fyOps.html

126 Rick perry is are only hope!

127 One thing I've heard: Almost none of Newt's former staffers or fellow congressmen from the time he was still in office support him today. What does that say about the man, when those who've worked with him when he was in power and got to know him best do not want anyhing to do with him?

128 129 here is the SSA bond table. During the Clinton years assets (bonds) went up about $100 billion/yr http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fyOps.html That was Reagan's fault, bitch.

129 During the Clinton years assets (bonds) went up about $100 billion/yr

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fyOps.html

Posted by: Clarence at December 14, 2011 08:22 PM (z0HdK)

Clarence you dumb ass they always have gone up. SSA runs a surplus squirt, it was planned to run a surplus. Obama has been the only president where they have gone down since Reagan doubled the fucking tax.

Reagan can't be faulted for not forseeing the American public would be dumb enough to elect a clusterfuck like Obama.

130 Hey, Clarence, I'll accept your claim that "the Clinton surplus was real" if you accept the premise behind that claim: that SS money really is just another government slush fund, to be used by politicians as they wish - perhaps for retirement purposes, perhaps not.

when they want to appear as fiscal conservatives - then it counts towards reducing the deficit.
when they want to appear as "defenders of the elderly" - then it doesn't.

131 @124 Thaddeus McCotter 2012!!! Come on now everyone. Hop on the McCotter ultra-mini bus. Pretty please. We have plenty of room. Its just me and the bus driver until he finds out that his next pay check will bounce.....

Posted by: GMB curmudgeon-in-training at December 14, 2011 08:12 PM (wY55N)

I'm with ya, bub, and if the driver splits, I can operate a bus.

132 This is why I support Rick Perry. This is why I donated to his campaign. This is why I will work for him. This is why Rick Perry should be President of the United States of America.

133 Look, no one is really disputing the facts here.

Treasury purchases (debt) increased under Clinton -DUE to FICA surpluses.

If you think that the US government is incapable of fulfilling its Treasury obligations - FINE.

My prediction - the old folk will vote to TAX your ass into oblivion to redeem their SS/Medicare.

134 Okay, that clinches it. I can forgive the "heartless" comment. Gonna donate to Perry tonight.

135
Treasury purchases (debt) increased under Clinton -DUE to FICA surpluses.

You're missing the point.
Why should FICA money be counted as an offset against general spending deficits?

Why, it is almost as if the politicians put all the tax money in one big pile, irrespective of where it came from...

Al Gore's lockbox hardest hit

136
LOL!  Wanna race to the bottom of the well, Ed?

Ready, set, ............GO!

Posted by: jwm at December 14, 2011 08:02 PM (0oYHO)

Perry (who I like the most) has already beat you there.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

137 Treasury purchases (debt) increased under Clinton -DUE to FICA surpluses.

If you think that the US government is incapable of fulfilling its Treasury obligations - FINE.

My prediction - the old folk will vote to TAX your ass into oblivion to redeem their SS/Medicare.

Posted by: Clarence at December 14, 2011 08:33 PM (z0HdK)

Hey champ, I am 59. I am one of the ones who have either seen my FICA taxes go up or the ceiling they can tax go up under every president except W.

Yes we are disputing your version of the facts. Public debt does not go up because SSA is running a surplus. intra government debt goes up squirt and public debt either goes down or stays the same.

You see Clarence, when the SSA purchases those bonds from the Treasurey the money goes into the general fund. It isn't the other way around. It has nothing to do with public debt unless the general fund has to borrow money to redeem the bonds that the SSA has purchased.

You understand that right?

138 chemjeff

But look at the SSA table I gave.  Its consistent no matter who runs things.

SSA obligations pile up ... AND "other" debt piles up.  They are sucking from both ends of the straw (both parties).

139 But look at the SSA table I gave.  Its consistent no matter who runs things.

SSA obligations pile up ... AND "other" debt piles up.  They are sucking from both ends of the straw (both parties).

Posted by: Clarence at December 14, 2011 08:47 PM (z0HdK)

Ahh Clarnce, now you are getting it. The Clinton surplus wasn't real was it Champ.

140 But look at the SSA table I gave.

But answer my question.
Why should FICA money be counted as offsetting against general spending deficits?

Yup, Republicans do it too.  That's why we have a Tea Party now.

141 "Why should FICA money be counted as offsetting against general spending deficits?"

Well, it should not be.

But it also should not be sitting around in cash at zero interest.  There was a time when Treasuries drew 5% and were considered rock solid.

142 Well, it should not be.

But it also should not be sitting around in cash at zero interest.  There was a time when Treasuries drew 5% and were considered rock solid.

Posted by: Clarence at December 14, 2011 08:57 PM (z0HdK)

You're right, the way it was designed to happen was that SSA would run a surplus, They would buy bonds from the Treasurey and the Treasurey would pay off public debt with the money. Instead of borrowing from China the government would borrow from the SSA.

Instead and you're also right. All politicians have decided to spend the money instead of paying off public debt with it and also borrow from China at the same time.

143 But it also should not be sitting around in cash at zero interest.  There was a time when Treasuries drew 5% and were considered rock solid.

Posted by: Clarence at December 14, 2011 08:57 PM (z0HdK)

At one point during Clintons term treasuries were drawing 8%. I bought some.

144 "They would buy bonds from the Treasurey and the Treasurey would pay off public debt with the money."

Yes, that would be optimal for sure.

Well, damn, I believe we have a slight but unsteady consensus.  I believe I will retire on this high note.

Gentlemen, have a drink on me sometime.

145
There are so much to learn from your post here, Uma, well done.

146  I forwarded it to everyone I know.
I am on the Perry train. I aint getting off of it. He is genuinely a good guy, I believe.
That's important to me.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at December 14, 2011 07:48 PM (qjUnn)

Plus, he's hot.

147 Gotta hand it to this blog, it has run non-stop shilling for Perry from BEFORE Day 1 to the bitter end.

148 I produce Hot Gas for Perry.

149 Touching video.

Now focus half that energy and emotion on a forceful domestic policy, foreign policy, which is the least of our worries and mostly irrelevant to the daily lives of Americans.

And stop giving histrionics to the "Greatest Generation" stuff.  Many were personally brave (particularly the 25% of World War II service members who were volunteers, rather than the majority who were conscripts), but also collectively composed the generation that started many of our current problems. Not the boomers, who merely continued and built upon them. Anymore such "great" generations and we're undone.

150 Thanks for sharing, please keep an update about this info. love to read it more. i like this site too much.

151 Excellent blog, thanks for the share. I'll be a regular viewer.

152 "
Now focus half that energy and emotion on a forceful domestic policy, foreign policy, which is the least of our worries and mostly irrelevant to the daily lives of Americans."

Perry is way ahead of you on that.  He's got the best agenda, easily.

153 That is useful information and its quite easy to come a croper if you are not vigilant.

154

I absolutely love Rick Perry.

Don't give a damn what his detractors have to say. The man isn't the most eloquent, polished politician in the land. That's obvious. But he is who he is, 365 days a year. Ask Rick Perry about gun control, and he'll tell you to use both hands. Perry is business-friendly, a believer in limited, Constitutional government, an unashamed patriot, a man who has served honorably and proudly in our Military, and he's unafraid to stand by his beliefs.

Go, Rick Perry, Go!

 

155

"America is at the MALL. The United States Marine Corps is at War."

Most accurate words ever spoken.

Rick Perry is GENUINE.

He is who he is.

He loves America.

He respects ALL who serve to defend Her.

God bless Rick Perry, and God bless the great state of Texas. I wasn't born here, but I got here as fast as I could!

156

perry never had a prayer...ditto bachmann,cain,santorum etc...and now gingirich.....it was preordained that romney was going to be the candidate(by hook or crook)...i think it`s becoming painfully obvious....we`re all just along for the ride....

 

it`s ashamed that the general can`t be as easily manipulated...