1 I would have a lot more respect and support for T-Paw if he had been speaking and acting this way as Governor. I distrust all of this new-found conservatism.

2 For me- and with all due respect for those who would prefer Romney over Pawlenty- doubling down on the MassCare thing, followed by the AGW endorsement, is an instant disqualifier in the primary for me. Given my career change into medicine, I can't place my unqualified support behind Romney, at least in the primary. Should Mitt get the nomination, I will without question pull the lever for him, and might be persuaded to campaign for him. With that in mind, though, I'd rather not have to answer for his shortcomings on key issues like the ones above.

3 maybe you could balance the budget at Obama levels of spending for one or two years, but the taxes necessary would shrink the economy so much that it would be impossible to keep it balanced.

We have seen this every time big government is attempted -- It requires deficit spending since the productive sector shrinks as the welfare state grows.

4 free minds and free markets go hand in hand

5 Pawlenty? Espresso and a syringe, please. This guy induces narcolepsy. Bullshitter, chameleon. Fuck him and the rest of Minnesota.

6

We need another Weiner thread. BREAKING NEWS!

Weiner was conspiring with the porn star to lie to the media and obstruct justice.

7 Repeat post; this is what our current real problem with the primaries is:

Current list of possible candidates (have indicated at one time or another of possible run)

Herman Cain - Conservative

Newt Gingrich – Populist blows with the wind or just blows period. 

Gary Johnson - Libertarian

Fred Karger - ? Most likely liberal wants 16 year olds to vote  

Andy Martin - ? Birther

Jimmy McMillan – Democrat “rent’s to high” why wants to run as R is unknown

Roy Moore - ? Social Con?

Tim Pawlenty – Moderate AGW gun grabber socialized medicine etc.

Buddy Roemer - ?

Mitt Romney – Liberal also ran, blows with the wind

Rick Santorum – ? social con

Rudy Guiliiani – Liberal, likes to cross over

Jon Hunstman – Liberal DIABLO

Michelle Bachmann – conservative

Sarah Palin – conservative

George Pataki - ?

Thad McCotter - ?

Jim DeMint - Conservative

Rick Perry – Moderate but may be tilting to the right

Peter King - ?

John Bolton - ?

Mike Huckabee – religious liberal

Haley Barbour - ?

Mitch Daniels - ? record is mixed

8

[A less intrusive government tightly boxed into to its proper role should be the real goal. ]

Apparently not, if Mitt is being seriously considered.

9 Mitt is going to spend so much time playing defense in the primaries and genaral, I'd rather a guy like Pawlenty who is at least talking the talk at this point have a shot with a cleaner slate.

Either way...still a long way to go.

Posted by: DrewM. at 11:11 AM   They all are going to have to play defense. Romney doesn't really have one though, and that his his fatal flaw. He agrees on AGW, the individual mandate since he refuses to back away from Masscare.   I would rather choose someone who suspiciously "saw the light" than someone whose view consists of polyps and last night's dinner.  

10 The concept of a larger "pie" never seems to register with any Democrats other than Congressman W E I N E R (his name must always be pronounced slower and louder from now on.  Don't forget to giggle after saying it!)

11 Sock off.

12 I still stand by my prediction that the charismatic t-rex that is T'Paw! will end up being the consensus nominee, by merely not grossly offending anyone.

And if he wrangles SP's endorsement, the next President of the United States.





Unless Gov. GoodHair gets in.

13 Posted by: CAC at June 07, 2011 11:23 AM (JEVge)

Yeah, I don't mind pandering as much when I'm the one being pandered too. The key is to do it convincingly.

Mitt spent 07-08 trying to convince everyone he was a True Conservative even if it meant throwing things overboard. Ok, I guess, I like people to move my way.

Now he's decided he's going to run as "himself" and not flip on things. In a way, that's a flip from his image last time.

The guy has just tied himself in knots.

14 Huntsman worked for the first black president QED They can't call him a racist.

15 ...if he had been speaking and acting this way as Governor. Understood, but it's not as much of a negative to those of us who weren't in Minnesota as the Obamalypse happened. He just didn't get much publicity out here, certainly not the way Romney did thru his previous run.

16

As for the politics, if it comes down to Romney vs. Pawlenty, at this point I'd lean to Pawlenty. Yes, they both have sinned against conservatism but I think both have a real shot at beating Obama. Pawlenty simply has less baggage than Romney. Mitt is going to spend so much time playing defense in the primaries and genaral, I'd rather a guy like Pawlenty who is at least talking the talk at this point have a shot with a cleaner slate.

Yup.

17 Buddy Roemer - ?

Old-school populist Southern Democrat, AFAIK.  Think "Huey Long".

This guy's an idiot whose only statewide election win was when embattled Gov. Edwin Edwards conceded before a runoff, which was a political ploy to hamstring Roemer by having him elected by only about 25-35% of the Louisiana voters.

When he was up for re-election in 1991, he pissed off so many people and ran such a half-assed campaign that he came in 3rd behind Edwards and David Duke, which was a total embarrassment for the state.

18 The concept of a larger "pie" never seems to register with any Democrats other than Congressman W E I N E R (his name must always be pronounced slower and louder from now on.  Don't forget to giggle after saying it!)

Posted by: The Boss at June 07, 2011 11:25 AM (71LDo)

I don't like my pie larger, just younger.

19 Wait... Did someone say something about the larger Weiner pie? I just got my pants a little damp there.

20

Palin's a populist, Vic. Look at her actions on the pipeline. Also she backed McCain's sympathy for illegals. If you are going to be so fucking critical of Pawlenty, at least be as critical with Palin for her moderating when helping McCain back in 2008.

However, one enormous point of agreement between the two of us- Huntsman needs to be kept as far away from a chance at the general as possible. He's worse than a Diablo. He was selected to be ambassador to China- our economic rival- then quit it to run against his former boss? Partisan feelings aside, thats a fucked up move to pull. Even worse, his "moderate" stances are to the left of fucking Bloomberg.

I am warming up a bit to Bachmann. If she was balanced with someone slightly more moderate (even Pawlenty as her VP), I could see her win North Carolina, Indiana, Virginia, Ohio, Florida, New Hampshire, Minnesota and with it the election, which is better than what I could say about virtually everyone else in the field.

21 Tim Pawlenty – Moderate AGW gun grabber socialized medicine etc.

I'd add the blows with the wind to Pawlentyalso. Seemed to be his problem as Gov in MN.

22

POLL DUMP

Ras has the GOP leading the Dems 43-37 in the Generic ballot (that's 53-47 when you count out the undecideds) and Obama at 49% approval

23

Posted by: CAC at June 07, 2011 11:29 AM (JEVge)

it's Vic dude, the guy thinks everyone is a RINO

24 Pfffft...don't listen to what I was saying way back a few months ago...and don't judge me by my record

I am ConservativeMan here to save the day.

...and if you don't think I'm ready for rough and tumble politics, I'll...I'll...I'll twitter something else about Obama

I am ConservativeMan

25 Please, Generic Republican, you're our only hope!

26 I haven't written off Pawlenty,I'm open to be won over to him.

27 Yes, I will save you.  First, you will blow me.

28 Mitt spent 07-08 trying to convince everyone he was a True Conservative even if it meant throwing things overboard. Ok, I guess, I like people to move my way.

Now he's decided he's going to run as "himself" and not flip on things. In a way, that's a flip from his image last time.

The guy has just tied himself in knots.

Posted by: DrewM. at June 07, 2011 11:27 AM (2f1Rs)

I will say this- as positive I am that Palin would lose in a head to head, Romney would lose worse in a general election. That flopping would send him into god-awful territory. No Republican is going to lose any of the MCCAIN08 states, or Indiana this go-around. But Romney will have the "real deal" article in Obama to run against, and lose, in states like Ohio and Virginia. In the end, who do you vote for? The guy you don't like, or the guy who doesn't even know who the fuck he is? Authenticity, even in an unpopular flavor, scores better than wriggling around like a worm.

29

and if you don't think I'm ready for rough and tumble politics, I'll...I'll...I'll twitter something else about Obama

hey!!! you know who started that mr. T-Paw!!

30 Yes, they both have sinned against conservatism but I think both have a real shot at beating Obama

Beating Obama is a good thing, but I would prefer an actual conservative.

31 @ Vic No kidding... but this is the new and improved T-Paw - the one that doesn't roll over at the first challenge from opponents. Righhhtttt.....

32

I am warming up a bit to Bachmann. If she was balanced with someone slightly more moderate (even Pawlenty as her VP), I could see her win North Carolina, Indiana, Virginia, Ohio, Florida, New Hampshire, Minnesota and with it the election, which is better than what I could say about virtually everyone else in the field.

Posted by: CAC

Go on. (In a not-so-creepy way.) I admit that I don't know much of her, and thought that she was being tarred with the same brush as Palin.

33

Mitt v T-Paw?

That's as bad as Mitt v McCain.

GOP=dodo birds

34 Look at her actions on the pipeline. Also she backed McCain's sympathy for illegals. If you are going to be so fucking critical of Pawlenty, at least be as critical with Palin for her moderating when helping McCain back in 2008.

She pushed to get a private company to build a pipeline and that is populism? I think her dealings with the oil companies in AK were a plus. They had been bribing the old guard for years and were getting royalty rates much lower in AK than in TX and OK. She just evened up the score.

As for supporting McCain do you actually think she had any choice? When you agree to be a VP candidate you basically agree to support the top of the ticket. That is true of any candidate.

I don't agree with all of her past stances but her past does not have as much liberal baggage as Pawlenty's. I will continue to watch Pawlenty though. Perhaps all this new-found conservatism is legitimate.

35 The era of small government is over . . . government has to be more proactive, more aggressive.
~ Tim Pawlenty, 2006

36 John Bolton!!! We'll see,it's still early(I know,some thing it isn't).

37

Reduce corporate tax, rollback regulation - especially nutty green regulations, free up oil and gas industry, cut government spending - including corporate giveaways, stop crony capitalism, and sign free trade agreements.

Instarecovery.   Democrats are morally opposed to economic growth. 

38

He also calls for passing a balanced budget amendment but doesn't seem to put much stock in it. I think it's a box a lot of conservatives want checked but I don't get why.

First, if you could get enough votes to pass it (two-thirds in both houses before it even goes to the states) you'd have more than enough votes to pass an actual balanced budget.

More importantly, to me balancing the budget is a secondary issue to the level of spending. You can find a way to balance the budget at current Obama levels of spending but that would be a disaster. I'd rather a smaller, more prudent level of deficit at significantly lower levels of spending.

Indeed!

As for the politics, if it comes down to Romney vs. Pawlenty, at this point I'd lean to Pawlenty. Yes, they both have sinned against conservatism but I think both have a real shot at beating Obama. Pawlenty simply has less baggage than Romney. Mitt is going to spend so much time playing defense in the primaries and genaral, I'd rather a guy like Pawlenty who is at least talking the talk at this point have a shot with a cleaner slate.

Indeed again!

39 Who can win OH, PA, FL and CO in the general? That's probably our guy.

40 35 Umm yeah,I'd forgotten that somewhat.Maybe I'm not so open to him after all......

41 I am warming up a bit to Bachmann. If she was balanced with someone slightly more moderate (even Pawlenty as her VP), I could see her win North Carolina, Indiana, Virginia, Ohio, Florida, New Hampshire, Minnesota and with it the election, which is better than what I could say about virtually everyone else in the field.

One of the newspapers here said she was doing well in SC as well. But I don't know how much I would trust the newspapers here. They are all in the pockets of the Dem Party.

42 The era of small government is over . . . government has to be more proactive, more aggressive.
~ Tim Pawlenty, 2006

Posted by: T-Paw, (R-"sort of" )MN at June 07, 2011 11:38 AM (AnTyA)

....ouch...  I haven't seen that quote before.

That's pretty bad.

43 How did Minn's economy fare under ZZZ-Paw?  Minnesotans here? or are they all over at KOS?

44 America's economy is not even growing at 2 percent If he doesn't point out that we owe that 2% 'growth' to 10% inflation (or whatever funny numbers we're being told), I'm not inclined to take him that seriously.

45

it's Vic dude, the guy thinks everyone is a RINO

Posted by: YRM (Go Heat, Go Canucks) at June 07, 2011 11:33 AM (UzBwz)

 

Wait a minute.

Vic is Civ spelled backwards.

Civ+Vic = Civvic, or more likely, Civic.

Civic is a model of car manufactured by Honda.

Honda anagrams out to Ah, Don.

Ah, Don.

Don- Ah.

Don-ah sounds like Donna.

Donna is a womans name.

Women's names are popular with women and transgenders.

Transgenders are featured on LOGO.

Logo contains two O's.

20s= good sized rims.

Rims are vital on a scraper.

Scrapers are prominant in Oakland.

Oakland has seven letters, just like the word Chicken.

Chicken was a nickname given to John McCain by many conservative columnists.

AoS morons use nicknames prominently.

Vic....is actually John McCain.

Holy shit.

46 Who can win OH, PA, FL and CO in the general? That's probably our guy.

PA is a just running up the score if we win the other three, and I am pretty much a Missourian at this point about putting PA into the tossup catagory.

47 “Every uninsured citizen in Massachusetts will soon have affordable health insurance and the costs of health care will be reduced.”
-Mitt Romney, 2006

48

Looks like Pawlenty uses math.

He is therefore a dangerous extremist.

49 >> I would rather choose someone who suspiciously "saw the light" than someone whose view consists of polyps and last night's dinner. So you would prefer a flip flopper. What an interesting couple of years. Last election, Romney was disqualified by most here as a flip flopper and now he is being disqualified for not flip flopping and others are being praised for doing it. Meh, given the blogosphere's track record on backing winners in the primaries I think we do indeed have a long way to go.

50 Would it rude to ask for ages or an age range of people that support more contentious candidates?

I'd love to see a H. Cain presidency. But I'm a realist and I'm still relatively young. I know our country cannot survive another four years of Obama so I just cannot get on that bandwagon.

I"ll be picky when I'm collecting Social Security (giggle) and I don't really have to care but until then...

Sending O packing and back to Chicago > Everything else.

51

Hard to imagine anything harder than amending the US Constitution, other than (actually) cutting the federal budget by a dollar or firing a federal employee.  

(We're so screwed.  How you say?, "DOOM!")  

52 39 Who can win OH, PA, FL and CO in the general? That's probably our guy.Posted by: George Orwell at June 07, 2011 11:39 AM (AZGON)

without losing NC, VA, WVA, AL, MS, IN etc, right?  that is your guy (or gal)

btw, forget about PA, home of Phila and P'burg, two socialist hellholes that will go 110% for Barky.

53 Who can win OH, PA, FL and CO in the general? That's probably our guy.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 07, 2011 11:39 AM (AZGON)

Who can neutralize Democratic "gains" in Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Virginia, and Indiana, AND advance into Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and New Hampshire to continue the regional momentum from 2010?

That would be our ticket. Fuck the entire southwest at this point. If the Dems want that, at the cost of losing the midwest, it is a fair trade.

54 btw CAC i Too am warming up to Bachmann if it's b/w her and Palin.

55 Posted by: CAC at June 07, 2011 11:41 AM (JEVge)

well done...*clap*.....*clap*

56 In the last days of the dying United States, a masked man rode the plains, searching for truth and justice. Come with us now to those thrilling days of national decline, when from out of the mists come the thundering cross-tabs of the great pollster Rasmussen! The Generic Republican rides again!"

57 Ya know, William F. Buckley always said he voted for the rightward most viable candidate. That presupposes a rightward candidate, I guess. T-Paw is on my absolute left edge of acceptability. Romney only differs from Obama in degree, not substance.

58

Posted by: CAC at June 07, 2011 11:41 AM (JEVge)

This was probably the most awesome post I have ever seen here, bar none.

59

Sending O packing and back to Chicago > Everything else.

+1

60 Posted by: CAC at June 07, 2011 11:36 AM (JEVge)

Really?

I think it's the other way around. I think Mitt can win the general but probably not the nomination.

Why wouldn't he beat Obama in Ohio? He'd be competitive in FL maybe even PA. He'd put NH and maybe even MA in play (long shot but with Brown running strong, maybe).

61 Posted by: CAC at June 07, 2011 11:41 AM (JEVge) Newsletter and subscription, please.

62

This was probably the most awesome post I have ever seen here, bar none.

Posted by: KinleyArdal at June 07, 2011 11:45 AM (Cy/Q5)

Well, I still have to figure out who is Mike Huckabee.

I think buzzion has been looking awfully suspicious lately...

63 I've seen quite a few people on here that prefer, and almost demand, that the 2012 GOP presidential candidate have experience as Governor.  That's fine, you can't really get much better than executive level government experience, but you have to understand the baggage that brings, especially when the person in question was governor of a liberal state.  They have to at least try and please their constituents.  Alaska and Texas were conservative before Palin and Perry stepped in.  It's easy for them to step in and keep being conservative.  I give T-Paw, Hairdo, and Giuliani credit for leading from right of center (even if just barely) in states (or city in G's case) that are heavily democratic.  Sure they're going to appear squishy on some things, but they have experience working with, and even leading, a bunch of moonbat libs.  Even if you don't like them, the deserve at least a few bonus points for that.  I really don't like Romney, but just having the Massholes vote in someone with an R next to their name earns a little bit of my respect.

64 If T-Paw made that idiotic statement about the era of small government being over, thats every bit as bad as Romneycare. He will wear that stench into defeat.

65 There's no government policy that can promote short-term economic growth and the jobs that go with it. We should be as skeptical of TP's proclamations as we are of BO's failed efforts. Politicians who promise their programs and initiatives will lead to economic expansion are invariably liars.... so that would be all politicians, I guess.

66 Didja hear Mittens yappin' the other day about how man-man global warming was a problem?

Is that guy stupid or what??

67 At this stage, Pawlenty is the declared candidate who is saying the things people want to hear. This is a particularly good week to be talking about the economy, especially considering the Dems have been thrown off their game with the Rep. Weiner scandal.

68 This election looks like it is going to go just like the last one except for the Republicans it could be even worse. Counting the noses in that list I posted above we have 24 potential candidates. That will dilute the votes a lot in the first few primaries and as long as many of them do not drop out.

With the first 3 being proportional delegates and the rest being winner take all I can see the Republican winning with 15% of the primary vote and having 85% opposition in the base. That would be disastrous going into the general election.

And the general election will be just like all the other general elections. The people who normally vote Dem will vote Dem and the people who normally vote R will vote R. The 3% - 5% of the undecideds will flop either way.

In the end it will boil down to who gets their people down to the polls. If there is 85% oppositon in the base a lot of Rs will stay at home.

69 gotta go, Nintendo press conference is gonna be on

70 Who can win OH, PA, FL and CO in the general? That's probably our guy. -- Who can neutralize Democratic "gains" in Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Virginia, and Indiana, AND advance into Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and New Hampshire to continue the regional momentum from 2010? That would be our ticket. Fuck the entire southwest at this point. If the Dems want that, at the cost of losing the midwest, it is a fair trade. To be more general, my question is what states are reliably stable and which can be turned... and which of those can deliver enough electoral college votes? I thought those four states were the big prizes. But I'm a moron. Learn me.

71 64 He made it.During GW's "compassionate conservative" push.

72 Why wouldn't he beat Obama in Ohio? He'd be competitive in FL maybe even PA. He'd put NH and maybe even MA in play (long shot but with Brown running strong, maybe).

Posted by: DrewM. at June 07, 2011 11:46 AM (2f1Rs)

Its the "authentic" factor, Drew. He is competitive NOW before a general election where he will constantly be on the defensive on why he opposes Obama when he "shares so many of the same ideas".

I think Pawlenty, Bachmann, Perry, Ryan, Christie and Palin could all clearly argue how they are different. Romney had an opportunity to start backing away from Masscare, and refused.

73 I have to say. I am starting to believe that no matter who the eventual Republican candidate is- we win and things get better. Because they can't get much worse; can they?

Or is that just last nights tequila talking?

74 Let's grow the economy by 5 percent, instead of an anemic 2 percent.

1)   ???

2)   ???

3)    Economy growing by 5%...!1!ELEVENTY!!1!!1!

75

Oakland has seven letters, just like the word Chicken.

Chicken was a nickname given to John McCain by many conservative columnists.

AoS morons use nicknames prominently.

Vic....is actually John McCain.

Holy shit.

Posted by: CAC

And you wonder why people have trouble deciphering your maps.

Well played sir.

76 OT but asshole Frum continues to beclown himself.

77

I like Pawlenty's corporate tax rate of 15%. All of the special subsidies, tax loopholes, tax breaks, etc need to be eliminated. As I recall, when Ireland lowered their corporate tax rate revenues went up. They went bankrupt, because, seeing all the extra revenue coming in, they spent like crazy people with extra revenue coming in. Government still needs to be severely pared back extensively. And America's welfare state still has to end. Right now the country gets to choose the terms (but really no one's going to have the political will to do what needs to be done.)

Canada's corporate tax rate right now is about 18% I believe. I'm sure there's plenty of Canadian companies that are aggressively targetting American companies to outsource some of their work. Especially since ObamaCare hits any company with more than 25 employees. If I had any desire to stay in this country and start a company here, that'd be one area I'd really be looking at.

The other would area would be my prophet Mohammad merchandise would end me up in front of a human rights commission ripping apart all of my hard work and ruining me. 

78 That quote has been proven to be Pawlenty quoting David Brooks, right before disagreeing with him. But hey, let's keep acting like he actually thinks that way.

 And Pawlenty's actual record is conservative. In a Blue state, he fought off his liberal congress and kept the budget in line. His "moderate" record is pretty much the smoking ban, as well as his support of things like AGW. And people assume, because he publicly supported that stuff, that he governed as a liberal. Everything I've seen suggests he ran MN about as well as he could, budget wise. Just look at how fucked up they were before him, and are now after him.

 Look, Pawlenty can blow in the wind a bit. But I understand that sometimes candidates support positions in order to be viewed as moderate, and then never actually do anything to advance that agenda. I think he should criticized for actual legislation. Just like I wish people would analyze Palin's actual legislative record. She was more effective than you'd think, given the way she is viewed as a partisan bomb thrower.

79 Did he mention excessive regulation? Dodd-Frank, Obama-care, Sarbanes-Oxley, EPA overreach? That's at least as important as tax rates (since rates aren't all that high right now).

80

Well, I still have to figure out who is Mike Huckabee.

I think buzzion has been looking awfully suspicious lately...

Posted by: CAC at June 07, 2011 11:47 AM (JEVge)

Just as soon as you figure it out, post it prominently.  Stuff is freakin' gold.

81

Well, I still have to figure out who is Mike Huckabee.

I think buzzion has been looking awfully suspicious lately...

Posted by: CAC

 

According to Ace, I'm Ron Paul. beat you to the punch.

82 OT but asshole Frum continues to beclown himself. He should do something dignified like tweet his junk to a college girl. He'll need a macro lens, though.

83 Posted by: CAC at June 07, 2011 11:50 AM (JEVge)

Yeah but Mitt (and any Republican) has one big thing going for him...people in swing states no they don't like Obama. They don't know that for sure about Romney.

Romney will seem like a not scary, grown up alternative. It will feel safe to vote for him over Obama. Same with Pawlenty which is why at the moment, I'm liking him over Romney. Most of the same benefits and not as many of the downsides.

84 Just read the oped (should have before commenting first time, eh?) and yes he mentioned over regulation as crucial. Excellent.

85 Rudy Guiliiani – Liberal, likes to cross over and cross-dress

86 I thought those four states were the big prizes. But I'm a moron. Learn me.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 07, 2011 11:49 AM (AZGON)

You got my email, so you saw more clearly what I meant- but the farther out you force the Democrats to really, really fight (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania versus Florida, Ohio, Virginia, Colorado, and North Carolina), the more likely you win the 1st tier states outright.

Democrats, towards the end of the 2010 cycle, openly ceded dozens of seats in a desperate attempt to hold the line. Force Obama to give up in Florida, Ohio, Virginia, Indiana and North Carolina to focus on defending the Upper Midwest, and you are not only likely to carry the first five (and get to 266 electoral votes), but you are also likely to pluck off at least one of his "fallback" states- and the Presidency.

87 I liked T-Paw, but then he went and supported the current tax system where 45% pay nothing. I like making the system clear, but we can't politically survive as a nation when one half gives nothing productive.

88 I will withhold judgement on electability until we hear from Greg.

89

And you wonder why people have trouble deciphering your maps.

Well played sir.

Posted by: Blue Hen at June 07, 2011 11:51 AM (Gzv/o)

I just play four-dimensional chess while banging a black Christina Hendricks and dismantling bombs, Hen.

Or should I say... BLUE Hen!!!11!!! rEVOlution!!

90 Pawlenty may not have as much baggage as Romney or he may. He's both been in the honeymoon phase of his candidacy and frankly hasn't been viable enough to raise any guns against him. That will change. >>A projected, multibillion-dollar deficit in Minnesota, where Tim Pawlenty was governor until recently, has begun to nag at Mr. Pawlenty's presidential candidacy and his quest to assume the mantle of fiscal "truth teller." http://tinyurl.com/6csbwj2

91 the farther out you force the Democrats to really, really fight (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, New Hampshire, Maine, Pennsylvania versus Florida, Ohio, Virginia, Colorado, and North Carolina), the more likely you win the 1st tier states outright. ah, I see now, interesting...

92 Ace:First, if you could get enough votes to pass it (two-thirds in both houses before it even goes to the states) you'd have more than enough votes to pass an actual balanced budget.

Because when the stupid party is kicked out of power, we're back to the 'evil' party. Balancing the budget just so they can spend more is a sucker's bet.

93 Okay, so Pawlenty's stock is dwindling. ._. There goes that idea.

94 I don't think Romney would lose the election; I also don't think he can win it. TPaw has gotta to move right enough to get Sarah's endorsement before Perry jumps in, if he wants to be President and not VP.

95 I see no reason Sarah Palin couldn't be a better President than, say, Bush 43, at least up to the Clinton level on executive ability if rather preferable on policy. The present clown doesn't even bear discussing. 

But I don't see her getting elected unless someone grabbed two-thirds of the US press and mixed them into a few million cubic yards of concrete and poured the result on the Fukushima containment.

Out of what's left I'm cautiously optimistic about Pawlenty, and getting more skeptical of Mitt by the day. 

96 Second look at John McCain?

97 How about we just have Sarah chair an Article 5 convention, fix it all. No silly election, just lock up enough state legislatures and go.

98 We need a candidate that will radically reform our regulation system. Without regulatory reform, manufacturing will not return to America. Secondly, we need to talk about the unimaginably huge Big Bank fraud and the need to clean up our TBTF banks. Without that, there will be no new lending to small business. No lending to small business plus no new manufacturing equals continued depression and eventual collapse of our economy. There isn't a Republican candidate that is doing both.

99 I would have a lot more respect and support for T-Paw if he had been speaking and acting this way as Governor. I distrust all of this new-found conservatism.  

The blandwagon actually did used to speak and act conservatively awhile back.  That's why I used him as my avatar on various political online games.  Of course, being from Minnesota, he didn't get the pub that someone from the NY/LA/DC corridors gets.

100 Just saying, I remember the day when I read that he passed a budget that cut spending, as opposed to simply slowing the growth of government.  I think that was in the heady days of 2005 when it seemed like 2008 was already locked up because we had Rudy/McCain/Rice/etc. 

Amazing how a strong hand can go down the gutter fast when the media influences folks strongly.

101 It's nice to see all the trolls on here that are slamming T-Paw. 

"Gun grabber"??  - He got an A rating from NRA every time he ran. Supported concealed carry and signed into law a gun-range protection law.  Hardly a "gun grabber"

AGW - How many times does he have to say that was a mistake?  He is not AGW now

"Socialized Medicine"  - where the heck do you get that?

"Moderate"??  The CATO institute gave T-Paw only one of three "A" ratings for Governor.  National Right to Life says he "has a solid record" and he has sponsored some of the toughest anti-immigration legislation in the country.

Are you that worried about T-Paw that you are just going to make up stuff?

102 Posted by: Ghost of John Brown at June 07, 2011 12:22 PM (cBcNP)

Folks are carrying a lot of baggage from 2008.  They're projecting it onto Pawlenty and the rest of the blandwagon.

103 He'd be a better deal than Romney, on the face of it.

104

Gun grabber? Huh?

Don't mind Vic- he's a bit nuts.

Pawlenty signed concealed carry for MN, and as far as I can remember, there were no new gun control laws in MN during his term.  Gun-grabber he ain't.

105

78 That quote has been proven to be Pawlenty quoting David Brooks, right before disagreeing with him. But hey, let's keep acting like he actually thinks that way.

 And Pawlenty's actual record is conservative. In a Blue state, he fought off his liberal congress and kept the budget in line. His "moderate" record is pretty much the smoking ban, as well as his support of things like AGW. And people assume, because he publicly supported that stuff, that he governed as a liberal. Everything I've seen suggests he ran MN about as well as he could, budget wise. Just look at how fucked up they were before him, and are now after him.

This

106 We need to see some polls about TPaw in WI, MI, and OH. If he puts those states in play, and has the clean conservative credentials - then maybe we have strong horse.

107 This is great; just what I want to see from T-Paw.  If he can unload like this in the debates and smack around Romney with the cold, hard facts about why his pandering is crap, then I'm all in. 

108 More importantly, to me balancing the budget is a secondary issue to the level of spending. You can find a way to balance the budget at current Obama levels of spending but that would be a disaster. I'd rather a smaller, more prudent level of deficit at significantly lower levels of spending.

Pawlenty's proposal also calls for capping spending at 18% of GDP, which I think answers this objection.  However, I agree with you (and him) that the likelihood of this passing is between slim and none.

109

91 Pawlenty may not have as much baggage as Romney or he may. He's both been in the honeymoon phase of his candidacy and frankly hasn't been viable enough to raise any guns against him. That will change.

>>A projected, multibillion-dollar deficit in Minnesota, where Tim Pawlenty was governor until recently, has begun to nag at Mr. Pawlenty's presidential candidacy and his quest to assume the mantle of fiscal "truth teller."

The Dems or (DFL as they are called here) had both houses of our senate. Pawlenty tried using "unallotment" to clean up the budget. The lefties howled and ran to the courts. Some judge declared unallotment illegal and T-Paw was faced with no good choices.

People don't realize what the dems are like here. They are slightly left of Lenin. He did a pretty solid job holding them off and won some battles.

110

We need to see some polls about TPaw in WI, MI, and OH. If he puts those states in play, and has the clean conservative credentials - then maybe we have strong horse.

It's still pretty early in the game; name recognition is still a big factor in the polling.  Right now I suspect that the more important metric to follow is to see who's gaining, who's dropping and who is staying the same over time in the polls.

111

Gun grabber? Huh?

Don't mind Vic- he's a bit nuts.

Actually I didn't know I had him down as the gun grabber, that is Romney. I'll retract that.

112 >>People don't realize what the dems are like here. They are slightly left of Lenin. He did a pretty solid job holding them off and won some battles. The problem is worse in MA where the Dems are left of Marx and control 85% of the state legislature. Romney still get pummeled for his economic record in MA, even though much of it wasn't that bad, so I'm sure Palwenty will get the same treatment.

113

Check out top post at Diana West's blog for something I've been mentioning here: banks are loaning all their money to the government, hence no loaning to business.  

This is seriously dangerous financial seppuku.  A lot like QE I and QE II. 

114

If Republicans have a devisive primary, taking shots at each other, the 2012 election is lost. By dragging each other down into the mud, they simply give fodder to the Dems and inflict doubt in the Independents. All the candidates, and the non-candidates, should make a pact to run on the issues with their individual plans for this country if elected. No sniping the other Repubs, and continuous POSITIVE campaign messages for the Republican Platform. Attack POTUS on the issues, on his record with the facts, and the Dems in general. There is a plethora of material for this strategy. Capture the Independent vote with the economic message of failure for which this administration bears responsibility.

Lead by example. Stand for what you believe and what you will do.

Keep Asking "Are we better off today than we were in 2008?"

115

Five percent economic growth over 10 years would generate $3.8 trillion dollars in new tax revenues. With that, we would reduce projected deficits by 40 percent — all before we made a single budget cut.

AAAAAND that's where Democrats stop reading...

116 Vic,

Your "apology" sounds a bit insincere.  I agree with Minuteman.  You can't just post crap and falsehoods about a candidate and then come back with essentially, "oops, my bad".  If you can't adequately and accurately outline a candidate's positions, then please stop.  Right now, it kind of sounds like you were purposely trashing him and got "caught".  Right now, you are the Anthony Wiener of this blog.

117 Right now, it kind of sounds like you were purposely trashing him and got "caught".  Right now, you are the Anthony Wiener of this blog.

Bullshit. I didn't even realize I had the gun grabber appellation in that chart. I was postijg based on his ACTUAL record,not his recent rhetoric and you need to go back to what I said in the beginning.

I would trust his rhetoric a lot more if he hadn't supported a lot of the liberal issues, just like Romney. I have not given up completely on him but he is not on my current short list.

118 You couldn't have been posting on his actual record, since nothing that you said matches his actual record.

Just stop while you are behind. 

By the way, before you cast Herman Cain as a "Conservative" you might want to look at his past association with TARP, affirmative action, lack of strong statement on abortion and him supporting the black Democrat challenger to the sitting Republican Mayor of Omaha back in 1998.  Not exactly all that conservative.  That is if you are more interested in what they have actually done vs. their current spin as you claim that you are.

119 Even worse, his "moderate" stances are to the left of fucking Bloomberg. Bloomberg would NEVER relax liquor laws, pass strict abortion laws or allow you to just walk around with a gun. Fuck your stupid maps, CAC-finger. You know shit about anything.

120 Right now, it kind of sounds like you were purposely trashing him and got "caught". Right now, you are the Anthony Wiener of this blog. Vic has some kind of deal with DeMint, who figures he can be VP if TPaw goes nowhere.

121 gave $20 to T-Paw. I like his kung fu but I think Romney will do beter going after Obama in debate format.

#JOBS #JOBS #JOBS

122 A lot of people use your points as a measurement on the RINOmeter. Those people would be suckers.

123 Yeah but Mitt (and any Republican) has one big thing going for him...people in swing states no they don't like Obama. They don't know that for sure about Romney. Romney will seem like a not scary, grown up alternative. It will feel safe to vote for him over Obama. Same with Pawlenty which is why at the moment, I'm liking him over Romney. Most of the same benefits and not as many of the downsides. Posted by: DrewM. at June 07, 2011 11:56 AM (2f1Rs) You're banking on the world going to shit in order for either of those two to be appealing. It will not happen. Anyone who will be persuaded will look at experience and accomplishments. Mitt refuses to apologize, and TPaw has nothing. As a primary candidate, he just says what Palin said after it has been deciphered and focus group tested. That is why he is so obsessed with courageous stands. He has never actually taken one. But that makes him a great running mate for Mitt.

124 In our daily life, we pay more attention to our dress-up and life taste. In 2011 summer, we don't need to worry about it because summer clothing is always stylish and charming. However, we often feel annoyed in winter because those winter coats in general are heavy. Thus, we cannot show our personality and style during the winter time. However, when the canada goose label comes into our sights, we know that everything would be all right. It is because Canada goose clothing can bring us a stylish and charming look even under the brutal conditions.(yang)