June 20, 2011

Tommy Christopher on Larry O'Connor's Podcast
— Ace

Patterico says he's going to call in. Fun, fun. Listen here.

Tommy Christopher says he believes everything besides the real names in his story are true, including the fact that there was no inappropriate conduct.

When Larry O'Connor asks, "How do you know that, since they deceived you at least once already?," he says he has a corroborating witness:

Gennette Cordova.

Kind of starting to wonder about Tommy Christopher's objectivity here.

Posted by: Ace at 08:28 PM | Comments (157)
Post contains 83 words, total size 1 kb.

1 Objectivity is for philosophers.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 08:31 PM (RgXpA)

2 Clearly, I'm alone on this thread.

*removes pants*

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 08:33 PM (RgXpA)

3 Tommy Christopher is beclowning himself. This is embarrassing. he's saying his story is true just based on the fact that Tommy Christopher says it's true. What a douche.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 08:35 PM (nj1bB)

4 Don't mind us, Herr.

Posted by: #bornfreecrew at June 20, 2011 08:35 PM (liBQN)

5 *snaps picture*

Posted by: Bystander at June 20, 2011 08:36 PM (yG/qX)

6 Earlier today I almost retracted my entire three week story that there was no hack based on a new nugget of information. (I realized i was in error about that, but I was willing to do so.) This guy just keeps saying "I'm right, the story is still true, and I have a witness: Gennette Cordova."

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 08:37 PM (nj1bB)

7 PLEASE HERR MORGENHOLZ TAKE ME TO MY PROM...

Posted by: Betty at June 20, 2011 08:37 PM (nj1bB)

8 If he said it was false because Tommy Christopher is a liar, we would be trapped in the Liar's Paradox.

Posted by: Epimenides at June 20, 2011 08:39 PM (liBQN)

9 I stopped understanding what was going on like 2 weeks ago. Is there a taiwanese animation that explains all this, for the less motivated morons?

Posted by: Xander Crews at June 20, 2011 08:44 PM (k9vCb)

10 Ace, you've run yourself delirious.  Down some Val-U-Rite and grab a little rack time.

Posted by: The Black Republican at June 20, 2011 08:44 PM (RqRzN)

11 PLEASE HERR MORGENHOLZ TAKE ME TO MY PROM...

Posted by: Betty at June 21, 2011 12:37 AM (nj1bB)

ID?

*puts on pants*

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 08:45 PM (RgXpA)

12 Ace, he's privy to information you're not. Journalists cannot reveal all their sources and confidences.

Posted by: Henrietta at June 20, 2011 08:46 PM (Sbjk+)

13 I have a witness: Gennette Cordova.

Yeah, that might be a touch thin.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 08:46 PM (RgXpA)

14 And for the record being kept by the rest of the morons, no, I don't understand a word he's written today either.

Posted by: The Black Republican at June 20, 2011 08:47 PM (RqRzN)

15 Oh, and Larry, if you read this... learn to spell your last name, dammit.

(no relation)

Posted by: The Black Republican at June 20, 2011 08:48 PM (RqRzN)

16 I love that ace is checking in on us

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 08:50 PM (HjxoE)

17 According to a reliable source, I don't drink much at all. That source? Mel Gibson.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 20, 2011 08:52 PM (ijULY)

18 These beans are magic. Source: Gennette Cordova

Posted by: Tommy Christopher at June 20, 2011 08:52 PM (nj1bB)

19 Have we become that out-of-line? I think this is more revelry. Good on ya, ace

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 08:53 PM (HjxoE)

20 Patterico says he's going to call in. Fun, fun.

Reminds me of something.  Morpheus is fighting Neo!  Everybody runs.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 08:53 PM (xl+Cn)

21 Man, I am about wore out on this story. Ace, you've got staying power, I'll give ya' that!

Posted by: Ebo Walker (was a mighty fine Fiddle player) at June 20, 2011 08:54 PM (Iud9G)

22 If I send $50 (American) to this Nigerian princeling, he will reward me with $10,000,000 (American). Source: Gennette Cordova

Posted by: Tommy Christopher at June 20, 2011 08:54 PM (nj1bB)

23 I'm more interested it than you guys, maybe, because I have this Unknown Person sending me emails of screencaps and hinting about a story without answering my questions.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 08:55 PM (nj1bB)

24 22 - i love when you sock puppet

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 08:56 PM (HjxoE)

25 23 - so that's how you roll...sweet

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 08:57 PM (HjxoE)

26 TBM, I find it disturbing that ace is checking us out.

Posted by: The Black Republican at June 20, 2011 08:57 PM (RqRzN)

27 Ace, you've got staying power, I'll give ya' that!

At AoSHQ, when we take on a story, we leave nothing more than a dried husk.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 08:57 PM (xl+Cn)

28 Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it. That... and you can die of uromycitisis.

Posted by: The Costanza Defense at June 20, 2011 08:57 PM (1yViP)

29 what is tommy's problem? he wants to protect breitbart from what?.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at June 20, 2011 08:57 PM (eOXTH)

30 Ace of Spades : story :: wooden stake : vampire

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 08:59 PM (xl+Cn)

31 The thing that made me wonder about the story in the first place was Tommy C's involvement.

I mean, if you wanted to pick a "reporter" you could fool, he'd have to be right up there, wouldn't he?

But this was common knowledge long before Weiner started tweeting his boner.

Posted by: Adjoran at June 20, 2011 08:59 PM (VfmLu)

32 ....oh i understand....he wants to get in touch with anthony's weiner....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at June 20, 2011 08:59 PM (eOXTH)

33 O.C. = old cock

/case

Posted by: oblig. at June 20, 2011 08:59 PM (xvZW9)

34 The bloggers are beating on Weinergate like it owes them money.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 20, 2011 08:59 PM (1yViP)

35 29 pink eye. it's going around.

Posted by: The Black Republican at June 20, 2011 08:59 PM (RqRzN)

36 26 - I kinda like it, but, that's me

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:00 PM (HjxoE)

37 thanks twiceblessedmom. phoenixgirl, I don't know, apparently B/V tried to push some story that Breitbart and Dana Loesh tried to get them to lie. Supposedly, they tried to get the girls to say that Weiner was trying to make the girls into his own private underage escort service. Tommy Christopher has said this to different people (on the telephone), but now, in the interview, says that's not what this dumb DM said.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 09:00 PM (nj1bB)

38 Ace of Spades : story :: Star Trek salt creature : red shirt crewman

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 09:00 PM (xl+Cn)

39 Ace of Spades : story :: Ace of Spades : bottle of MD-2020

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 09:00 PM (xl+Cn)

40 Damnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a weiner salesman.

Posted by: Leonard "Bones" McCoy at June 20, 2011 09:02 PM (RqRzN)

41 ace....i've been trying to follow this sub story but honestly it's so convoluted it gives me a headache.....tommy sounded like he was lying imho....thanks for all the coverage.....i hope breitbart sues everyone who libeled him through out this farce and i hope he wins a trillion dollars

Posted by: phoenixgirl at June 20, 2011 09:04 PM (eOXTH)

42 AoS:Story::The guys at the pinball machine: Jodie Foster

Posted by: eddiebear at June 20, 2011 09:05 PM (JmVLJ)

43 Ace of Spades : story :: wrong cup : German guy in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 09:05 PM (xl+Cn)

44 I will repeat (with a little editing) my Official Unofficial Thread Weinning!™ post from the last thread. Because it's late and why not.

I have the answer to the whole thing.  The grand unifying theory: Weiner is a time-traveling cyborg.

Let me explain.

In a dystopian future, an evil conservative government (you've read about them in books and see them in movies) is in charge, but there's a threat from a small band of plucky progressives (again, see books and movies).

In order to keep the noble progressives from existing, the evil conservatives created the perfect asshole Congressman to discredit the Left. He was sent back in time in continuous contact with cyborgs who were sent previously by the evil future government to mimic people who appear to be in control of 2011 America: pornstars, ditsy journalism majors, 17-year-old girls, etc.

He was simply signalling them: showing them his access port and asking for advice on repair and photographing his body in the locker room in case the nanobots that maintained his body had made errors.  Third nipple, too much acne, a normal-sized chin, that sort of thing.

The dirty talk? Obviously code.

And lest you think this theory is outlandish, it explains Huma, who was put in place to keep Hillary under wraps and prevent her from rising and preventing the evil conservative future. 

Posted by: AmishDude at June 20, 2011 09:05 PM (73tyQ)

45 37 - you're welcome. Now, keep fighting the good fight. I know it's not easy, but we are behind you 100%. Have you ever thought about an anon vlog? On YouTube? A color commentary of the day. It'd be a hit.

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:06 PM (HjxoE)

46 26 TBM, I find it disturbing that ace is checking us out.

You send him one dic pic and he won't leave you alone.

Posted by: AmishDude at June 20, 2011 09:06 PM (73tyQ)

47 Ace of Spades : story :: hungry Speilberg character : food

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 09:08 PM (xl+Cn)

48 46 - he is s gentleman and a scholar, I assure you

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:08 PM (HjxoE)

49 So, what's he arguing?  That Betty/Veronica is a case of Two Girls, One Setup?

Posted by: AmishDude at June 20, 2011 09:09 PM (73tyQ)

50 AoS:Story::Bro:"Don't taze me bro!"

Posted by: eddiebear at June 20, 2011 09:09 PM (JmVLJ)

51 Okay, so what happened when Patterico called?  I didn't tune-in in time.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 09:09 PM (xl+Cn)

52 Nope, you're still in the news, so we can't declare you "rehabilitated" yet.

Posted by: The Anthony Weiner Rehabilitation Process at June 20, 2011 09:10 PM (FcR7P)

53 48 46 - he is s gentleman and a scholar, I assure you

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 21, 2011 01:08 AM (HjxoE)

Not as good as being a scholar of gentlemen, IYKWIMAITYD.

Posted by: Andrew Sullivan at June 20, 2011 09:10 PM (73tyQ)

54 46 - besides, I am ill-equipped to send him a dic-pic. I am however well-equipped...forget that...

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:10 PM (HjxoE)

55 53 - wait, what?

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:11 PM (HjxoE)

56 51 Okay, so what happened when Patterico called?  I didn't tune-in in time.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 21, 2011 01:09 AM (xl+Cn)

"Buffering..." in my case.

Posted by: AmishDude at June 20, 2011 09:11 PM (73tyQ)

57 Ace : Story :: Ace : Val-U-Rite + hobo

Posted by: The Black Republican at June 20, 2011 09:11 PM (RqRzN)

58 Ace : Weiner :: genital warts : Weiner.

Posted by: AmishDude at June 20, 2011 09:13 PM (73tyQ)

59 Actually, that one's not really fair to the story.

Posted by: The Black Republican at June 20, 2011 09:13 PM (RqRzN)

60 55 46 - besides, I am ill-equipped to send him a dic-pic. I am however well-equipped...forget that...

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 21, 2011 01:10 AM (HjxoE)

This can be taken care of...

Posted by: Chas Bono at June 20, 2011 09:13 PM (73tyQ)

61 61 - thanks even Cher recoiled in horror.

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:16 PM (HjxoE)

62 Why are they circling the wagons around Cordova? Why is their a sudden urge to sweep the clandestine accounts under the table as ho hum? The real purpose, and person they served is becoming more of a curiosity. Were we unwitting thugs in a hit op? Or did we just stumble into a clandestine op like militia storming into a spy mission? Or, more pervasively was this some sort of counter sting? All of this needs historical level coincidence to explain the dicpic. Why the trouble for the fake IDs? Someone wanted at least prima facie credibility and complete anonymity. Indicating they at least *wanted* to push the story and narrative and keep a secret identity while doing so. All of the theories for what they were doing prior to the event, don't explain their actions after the event. I can't believe that #bornfree was important enough for anyone important to worry about. Maybe that is Occams solution; Maybe it was attempt to play in the big leagues by our prospective journalist who was trying to play us all, then found out the skillz weren't quite there yet and withdrew while some cover was intact and true identities were still a mystery. The plan started out as a simple game against #bornfree then evolved into a game against us once the media story broke. Then of course the over extension, fake IDs, and finally running to the hills to hide. That makes the dicpic into a true unfortunate event, and our involvement and targeting just poorly planned and executed happenstance. Trying to push a story with false facts from fake people? Our journalist will have a job in the MSM in no time.

What I can't get. All for Weiner? He ain't all that! Or is he?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose AoSHQ Section 9 at June 20, 2011 09:17 PM (GE1+K)

63 >>>Okay, so what happened when Patterico called? I didn't tune-in in time. Patterico rephrased the question as: "When you printed this article you reported Weiner's exoneration as a fact. Now that the the girls apparently provided fraudulent ID, how can you continue asserting what they told you is verified fact?" He said: "Maybe I put that the wrong way. This new information doesn't change the truth or untruth of the original article." Which is true, because it was always the case the girls could have been lying. but... Tommy has talked a lot about the article, and has always claimed it was impeccable and perfect and completely factual and accurate. now he says: The new revelations do not change the fact that the original article always could have contained false statements.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 09:18 PM (nj1bB)

64 Why are they circling the wagons around Cordova?

Because she is The Victim(TM). 

Posted by: chemjeff homeowner at June 20, 2011 09:20 PM (28mus)

65 Even with all that good theory tying this up in a bow. Who was trying to pwn us with the screen caps?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose AoSHQ Section 9 at June 20, 2011 09:21 PM (GE1+K)

66 Thanks, Ace.  Seems like it would have been easier for Christopher to say, "Maybe I got part of the story wrong."

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 09:22 PM (xl+Cn)

67 Kind of starting to wonder about Tommy Christopher's objectivity here.

IIRC, Christopher and Gennette were following each other from the beginning.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 09:23 PM (xl+Cn)

68 OK, now I'm getting confused. Too many threads to this yarn.

Posted by: Gordian K. Not at June 20, 2011 09:24 PM (1yViP)

69 64 - see, ace, the right keeps using these words and phrases... impeccable, perfect, factual. Please, keep it fair. Use words the opponent is familiar with.

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:26 PM (HjxoE)

70 Mom, even here at the HQ, we don't use language like that.

Posted by: The Black Republican at June 20, 2011 09:29 PM (RqRzN)

71 he right keeps using these words and phrases... impeccable, perfect, factual. Please, keep it fair. Use words the opponent is familiar with.

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 21, 2011 01:26 AM (HjxoE)

I thought that's why we had Busty Lesbian Pron, boobehs and movie reviews. Lure them in, and then hunt them down. Especially if they are hobos.



Posted by: Crazee at June 20, 2011 09:30 PM (H3ujh)

72 Any explanation that doesn't include Area 51 and the grassy knoll is highly suspect. However, the best explanation I have seen put forth so far is:
 
It's turtles all the way down.
 
(great job btw ace)

Posted by: GnuBreed at June 20, 2011 09:31 PM (ENKCw)

73 72 - this! I didn't know we spoke the code aloud. Should I cover myself in ashes?

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:31 PM (HjxoE)

74 AoSHQ : Story : Weiner : Ad Nauseam : Repeat

Posted by: OCD at June 20, 2011 09:32 PM (jEEpE)

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 09:32 PM (xl+Cn)

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Posted by: Oakley Sunglasses Sale at June 20, 2011 09:35 PM (h9REV)

77 73 - for real. Ace has been the man on this down the line. This wouldn't be a story without his dog with a bone tenaciousness. And we have loved every minute of it I would love to send him a bottle of choice. Hear that big guy, on us...

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:37 PM (HjxoE)

78 >>>Even with all that good theory tying this up in a bow. Who was trying to pwn us with the screen caps? I'm trying to get the person sending them out to explain the story behind them. The person doing this seems to be an amateur. he sends you stuff and wants you to pursue/publish it without a single word of explanation about how he came into this information. When pressed for details, he just offers conclusions ("These are real, the MSM has had these for a month...") Again, failing to comprehend the reason questions are asked is to determine if a story is plausible. I have written him. if he doesn't drop the Mystery Dance by tomorrow morning, I'm done with him, his screencaps, and the angle he wishes me to pursue (Gennette).

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 09:38 PM (nj1bB)

79 All I can think is that he saw All the President's Men and thinks a source is supposed to behave cryptically like Deep Throat. I tried explaining to him that in real life Deep Throat was NOT cryptic; he was so in the movie, because at that time Woodward hadn't revealed his identity. But he was clear and direct with Woodward in real life. But anyway, it's this endless mystery for the sake of mystery and I'm done with it.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 09:40 PM (nj1bB)

80 Geez Ace, that's more fact-checking than the NYT has seen in a decade.  You're gonna give bloggers a bad name.

Posted by: The Black Republican at June 20, 2011 09:40 PM (RqRzN)

81 If it's all fake, it makes sense he should want to avoid answering questions. If this is real, and he wants a real story to come out, he's sabotaging it with this ludicrous, insufferable coy/cute cryptic act. Verum Serum might have the patience for it. I don't. Dude, if you're reading, if you have a story to tell, fucking stop being an attention whore and drama queen and just fucking tell it.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 09:42 PM (nj1bB)

82 82 - oh my, shit just got real...

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:44 PM (HjxoE)

83 anyway I spent three or four hours today trying to divine if Mr. Cutey-pants is on the level or not and talking to other bloggers. Officially giving word: Start answering questions or GTFO. Enough of the Rain Man act.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 09:44 PM (nj1bB)

84 I've said it many times: I believe Cordova is the person behind the "Betty & Veronica" twitter feeds, but I DO NOT BELIEVE THE SUPPOSED SCREENCAPPED DMs ARE LEGITIMATE.  I think it's a Dan Rather-style "fake but accurate" forgery.  I think the underlying theory that those screencapped Twitter DMs support is essentially correct, but I think those DMs are themselves fake.


Posted by: Jeff B. at June 20, 2011 09:46 PM (hIWe1)

85 Ha! Rain man, that's it, ace is pissed...love it!

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at June 20, 2011 09:47 PM (HjxoE)

86 I really have no idea what's going on.

Posted by: Tom In Korea at June 20, 2011 09:52 PM (jThmd)

87 Can somebody who is not Ace, please explain to me the supposed import of these screen caps of some DMs?

I haven't really gotten into the minutea of all of this and so haven't even bothered to look for the caps because I'm still not sure why I should care.

Betty and Veronica are fake and so these caps (if they are not a hoax) impugn the credibility of whom exactly and in what way?

(Nothing against Ace, here.  I just don't want him speculating anymore because it gives me a headache and could land him in trouble.  But any morons who have been following this more closely than I, who are willing to speculate about his speculations would be appreciated.  Because, I'm a bit lost here.)

Posted by: Deety at June 20, 2011 09:56 PM (YTFjM)

88 >>> I think it's a Dan Rather-style "fake but accurate" forgery. Could be. I'm tired of wasting mind power on it. I've written to Verum Serum and Patterico to request a joint statement to him that either he drops the coy Rain Man act or we all killfile him and he can try someone else.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 09:56 PM (nj1bB)

89 Deep Throat talked to Woodward in cocktail lounges over martinis.  NOT in garages over Maseratis.

This guy's trying to play you, you think?  I mean, do you think he's trying to plant a fake story, or is he just too cute by half?

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 09:57 PM (5Xf3c)

90 The person doing this seems to be an amateur. he sends you stuff and wants you to pursue/publish it without a single word of explanation about how he came into this information.

The caps being true and provided by some ultra insider who is afeared for his job just seems so less likely than someone yet again trying to play the bloggers for fun and profit, and at such an amateurish level, possibly even completely unrelated to the actual events.

My takeaway, if this is the level of repeated and sustained subterfuge we can expect from the left when we openly engage I need to make sure I have a couple spare cans of A Game in the cupboard for those spies and trolls lurking behind every nic.

Nice job with the coverage. You made dancing down that razor look like a gymnast performing on the balance beam.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose AoSHQ Section 9 at June 20, 2011 09:58 PM (GE1+K)

91 Oh.

Thanks Jeff B. at 85.

Answering some of my questions as I type them.

Alledgedly...

Posted by: Deety at June 20, 2011 09:58 PM (YTFjM)

92 OK, nevermind.  You answered my question.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 10:00 PM (5Xf3c)

93 All I can think is that he saw All the President's Men and thinks a source is supposed to behave cryptically like Deep Throat.

Heh. 

Source:  Follow the money.

Ace:  Huh?

Source:  You have to figure that out on your own.

Ace:  Look, I'm tired of your chickenshit games! I don't want hints! I need to know what you know!

Source:  The evidence leads everywhere.

Ace:  Listen, dammit...

Source:  Get out your notebook. There's more.

Ace:  I need to know the origin of the screecaps.

Source:  Oh, I can't tell you that.

Ace:  That's it.  I'm done with this.

Source:  There's more.  I think your lives are in danger.

Ace:  Whut?  What do you mean?

Source:  I can't tell you that either.

Ace:  Goddammit!  Tell me what you're talking about.

Source:  No, I have to do this my way. You tell me what you know, and I'll confirm. I'll keep you in the right direction if I can, but that's all.

Ace:  So, my life is in danger?

Source:  I can't tell you that.

Ace:  But... you just did.

Source:  I did?  Oh.  Yes, your lives could be in danger.

Ace:  What do you mean?

Source:  Tell me what you know, and I'll confirm.

Ace:  That there are DMs?

Source:  Yes.

Ace:  That... the danger is bigger than a bread box.

Source:  Yes.

Ace:  That... Nixon has a dirty tricks squad that may be after me and others.

Source:  Yes.

Ace:  You're getting that from the movie!

Source:  Yes.

Ace:  Then you're just jerking me around.

Source:  Yes.

Ace:  Goodbye.

Source:   Don't you want to know about the pictures of GennetteC and Weiner?

Ace:  Yes, very much so.

Source:  There aren't any.


Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 10:00 PM (xl+Cn)

94 Deety -

The screencaps we're referring to (head to Patterico to see them if you wish) explicitly implicate Gennette Cordova as being the person behind the "Betty" and "Veronica" fake twitter handles, working directly with Anthony Weiner (they're supposedly direct messages btw. her and him) to 'sting' the #bornfree crew that was hounding Weiner.  The idea, if you believe these screencapped DMs are legit, was that Cordova was posing as a pair of underage girls to keep tabs on the #bornfree crew and then subsequently to get them to bite on fake allegations that Weiner was having inappropriate relationships w/underage girls. 

Now I believe that this theory IS substantively correct.  If you checked out my (many, many) comments in the other Ace thread from today, I go into that at length.  But I DO NOT believe that these supposed DMs are real.  I think they're Dan Rather-style fakes, created by someone (either a lefty troll or a crazy Bill Burton-esque type who's BIBLICALLY CONVINCED of Weiner & Cordova's guilt but who doesn't have any hard evidence) to tell us a story that's 'too good to check.'  I don't trust them because they're just a bit too perfect.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 20, 2011 10:02 PM (hIWe1)

95 >>>This guy's trying to play you, you think? I mean, do you think he's trying to plant a fake story, or is he just too cute by half? Some partisans get crazy and think they can advance a story they know in their hearts must be true with forged documents. See Rathergate.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 10:02 PM (nj1bB)

96 Cordova was posing as a pair of underage girls to keep tabs on the #bornfree crew and then subsequently to get them to bite on fake allegations that Weiner was having inappropriate relationships w/underage girls.

That is the stupidest fucking plan, ever.  Weiner was tweeting pictures of his dick.  There's even a song about it.  I know, because it keeps playing in my head.  "It's my Dick in a Tweet".

So are you saying that Weiner intentionally spread rumors about a body buried in his garage to distract from the one under the patio?

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 10:04 PM (5Xf3c)

97 @94

Oh for f***s sake! I thought Rubicon was cancelled already!

You are wayyy too late to start a viral internet campaign.

Posted by: Deety at June 20, 2011 10:05 PM (YTFjM)

98 See Rathergate.

Point well taken.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 10:05 PM (5Xf3c)

99

So are you saying that Weiner intentionally spread rumors about a body buried in his garage to distract from the one under the patio?

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 21, 2011 02:04 AM (5Xf3c)

I think that would be a bit out there, but you neve know with a narcissist who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and thinks he can pull it off.

But couldn't it be possible that Cordova was spreading the rumor about the body under the garage without his knowing and being completely clueless that he had a body under the patio?

Posted by: buzzion at June 20, 2011 10:07 PM (oVQFe)

100 >>>So are you saying that Weiner intentionally spread rumors about a body buried in his garage to distract from the one under the patio? the more recent speculation is that it wasn't weiner, it was gennette. Although, bizarrely, if those screencaps are real, then Weiner... encouraged this? That's why I doubt them. There is a one tiny reason to think they're real. But it's minor. They do mention Weiner doing as story with the NYT on Twitter. In fact, he was doing a story with the NYT on twitter at about this time. Now, anyone could know that, obviously. But... I don't know, I'm not getting a sophisticated vibe from Rain Man Deep Throat so... eh. So thin.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 10:07 PM (nj1bB)

101 So are you saying that Weiner intentionally spread rumors about a body buried in his garage to distract from the one under the patio?

Yes it is that epic level coincidence that makes the whole chain of events so problematic. Divine intervention for #bornfree if you will, a picture of a dick descends from the heavens right in the middle of all this clandestine BS. My best cut is that all of this was being done without Weiners acknowledgement.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose AoSHQ Section 9 at June 20, 2011 10:08 PM (GE1+K)

102 That was Verum Serum's observation, btw. Anyway, I'm tired of thinking about this guy. Either he tells the tale or I'm out.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 10:09 PM (nj1bB)

103 But couldn't it be possible that Cordova was spreading the rumor about the body under the garage without his knowing and being completely clueless that he had a body under the patio?

This seems consonant to me.

Posted by: Deety at June 20, 2011 10:09 PM (YTFjM)

104 Don't worry, Ace, I'll find the real Deep Throat!

Posted by: Anthony Weiner at June 20, 2011 10:09 PM (H3ujh)

105 My best cut is that all of this was being done without Weiners acknowledgement.

Which contradicts the caps. But the fact remains. If the caps are true, why would Weiner be so careless with Oscar Myer?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose AoSHQ Section 9 at June 20, 2011 10:10 PM (GE1+K)

106 So thin.

Agreed.  That would be so moronic, only a Dem would do it.

I mean that.  They would think they could get away with it.  So stupid, so imbecilic, and yet, so truthy.  It's an intriguing thought. 

Neh.  It's a hell of a stretch.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 10:10 PM (5Xf3c)

107 Seriously, I don't buy the DM's. How hard would it be to verify them if they were real? I'm not sure. The twitter world is outside my expertise.

Posted by: Crazee at June 20, 2011 10:11 PM (H3ujh)

108 >>>So are you saying that Weiner intentionally spread rumors about a body buried in his garage to distract from the one under the patio?

No, I'm saying that Weiner was of the mindset that the "body buried under his patio" wasn't even a body per se and anyway nobody could ever in a million years find out about it.  This is, in a nutshell, the arrogant stupidity of the terminally cocky, and I've seen it play out a hundred times in my life.  Don't give me the crap about how it's stupid and functionally irrational -- human beings are stupid and functionally irrational all the time, ESPECIALLY ones who have convinced themselves that they're smarter than everyone else.  Weiner wasn't even CONCERNED about people finding about his Twitter-sexting with adult women, he was focused on the thrill of baiting these asshole #bornfree stalkers into attacking him on an accusation he knew himself to be innocent of.

I don't want to rehash all the shit I've said already, so just go check out today's other Weiner thread for my many thoughts on the subject.  Suffice it to say, my model of human psychology is (IMO) far more nuanced and accurate -- accounting as it does for hubris and human frailty -- than a purely mechanistic one which just assumes that people don't blunder or make self-defeating mistakes because "who could be so dumb?"  Well the evidence of everyday experience in our world (among smart people and public figures, not just criminal morons) is ample testimony to the fact that, yes, PEOPLE ARE OFTEN THAT DUMB.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 20, 2011 10:11 PM (hIWe1)

109 Please don't use "cut" and "Weiner" in the same sentence again.

I have to go get a vasectomy.  Thank you.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 10:12 PM (5Xf3c)

110 But couldn't it be possible that Cordova was spreading the rumor about the body under the garage without his knowing and being completely clueless that he had a body under the patio?

Cordova would, but, Weiner would run from that idea if he had any sense. Which again conflicts with the caps.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose AoSHQ Section 9 at June 20, 2011 10:12 PM (GE1+K)

111 How hard would it be to verify them if they were real?

Without felony level hacking or the divine intervention known as a subpoena? Well pretty hard.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose AoSHQ Section 9 at June 20, 2011 10:13 PM (GE1+K)

112 >>>But couldn't it be possible that Cordova was spreading the rumor about the body under the garage without his knowing and being completely clueless that he had a body under the patio?

This is, I believe, what the truth really was.  Cordova had absolutely no idea that Weiner really was involved in sexting/pic-swapping relationships with other women.  I think she is actually probably telling the truth when she says that Weiner's dic-pic came as a surprise, and the subsequent revelations even more surprising.  I don't think ANYONE knew about that stuff except Weiner himself and the women he did it with.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 20, 2011 10:14 PM (hIWe1)

113 Who the fuck thinks he can email you under a code name, offer no explanation or backstory for his "documents," and then just take off? I'm kind of annoyed Patterico ran them. That's why I need him to agree to NO MORE AIR-PLAY until answers.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 10:14 PM (nj1bB)

114 I don't disagree, Jeff, with your observations that people are dumbasses.  And I can appreciate your analysis.  But we need hard evidence.

Scratch that.  Just some evidence will do. 

No, I know what you're saying, and you may be right.  But it's just So.  Damned.  Stupid.  to do that.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 10:15 PM (5Xf3c)

115 114 Who the fuck thinks he can email you under a code name, offer no explanation or backstory for his "documents," and then just take off?

I'm kind of annoyed Patterico ran them. That's why I need him to agree to NO MORE AIR-PLAY until answers.

Posted by: ace at June 21, 2011 02:14 AM (nj1bB)

An idiot.

Posted by: buzzion at June 20, 2011 10:15 PM (oVQFe)

116 >>>Cordova would, but, Weiner would run from that idea if he had any sense. Which again conflicts with the caps.

I'm not so sure that Weiner had quite enough sense for that (see above) but again, I do agree that the screencaps are almost certainly bogus.  Too good to be true.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 20, 2011 10:16 PM (hIWe1)

117 I gamed out with Verum Serum ways they could be real. I'm not going to mention how, or else Rain man will just crib.

Posted by: ace at June 20, 2011 10:17 PM (nj1bB)

118 115 I don't disagree, Jeff, with your observations that people are dumbasses.  And I can appreciate your analysis.  But we need hard evidence.

Scratch that.  Just some evidence will do. 

No, I know what you're saying, and you may be right.  But it's just So.  Damned.  Stupid.  to do that.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 21, 2011 02:15 AM (5Xf3c)

Yeah we really need actual evidence for this stuff because right now there are just too many possible branches and we need to take some trimmers out so we can get rid of the ones that we definitely don't need.

Posted by: buzzion at June 20, 2011 10:17 PM (oVQFe)

119 Who the fuck thinks he can email you under a code name, offer no explanation or backstory for his "documents," and then just take off?

Check your email.  Pay particular attention to ready.jpg.

Posted by: Mr. W at June 20, 2011 10:17 PM (5Xf3c)

120 >>>No, I know what you're saying, and you may be right.  But it's just So.  Damned.  Stupid.  to do that.

Anthony Weiner's history of Twitter-sexting with complete strangers, sending nude photos, engaging in phone sex, all while married...isn't this prima facie evidence that he is indeed So. Damned. Stupid?  I mean, we've already ESTABLISHED that Weiner's capable of incredibly stupid, risky, almost insanely dumb & arrogant behavior.  That's already proven, without any need for speculation.  So why is this any further of a stretch? 

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 20, 2011 10:19 PM (hIWe1)

121 PEOPLE ARE OFTEN THAT DUMB.

Yeah it's just. Ok so he knew he was being trailed, Ok so he encouraged someone to play them in *ahem* good faith, Ok HE STILL SENT THE DICPIC? And couldn't be bothered to be *sure* Right in the middle of all this? right to the chick who was doing his clandestine play, even though he hadn't done so ever before....Every level of this makes the epic level coincidence bigger and bigger and more unbelievable.

My gut says he didn't know what she was up to and thought of her as just another hot admirer which means the caps are a fake.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose AoSHQ Section 9 at June 20, 2011 10:20 PM (GE1+K)

122 Weiner's capable of incredibly stupid, risky, almost insanely dumb & arrogant behavior.  That's already proven, without any need for speculation.

Taken.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 20, 2011 10:20 PM (5Xf3c)

123 What post at Patterico?  Just looked.  Don't see um.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 10:21 PM (xl+Cn)

124 Oh, found em.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 20, 2011 10:25 PM (xl+Cn)

125 Thanks Jeff B.

Sorry I didn't see  your posts in the previous thread but I probably gave up on that one before you dropped in.

Good to have a concise recap though.

Posted by: Deety at June 20, 2011 10:25 PM (YTFjM)

126 >>>Yeah it's just. Ok so he knew he was being trailed, Ok so he encouraged someone to play them in *ahem* good faith, Ok HE STILL SENT THE DICPIC? And couldn't be bothered to be *sure* Right in the middle of all this? right to the chick who was doing his clandestine play, even though he hadn't done so ever before....Every level of this makes the epic level coincidence bigger and bigger and more unbelievable.

>>>My gut says he didn't know what she was up to and thought of her as just another hot admirer which means the caps are a fake.

I think both scenarios are plausible.  We agree that the caps are fake, but perhaps for different reasons.  I'm merely suspicious of anything that seems to prove our arguments so perfectly, so "on the nose," without any need for interpretation or inference.  You don't think he would have encouraged this sting operation and THEN sent the dicpic...but again I return to my point that a lot of you folks seem to be operating with mechanistic views of psychology, i.e. "people don't make those sorts of mistakes."  Um...alcohol?  I'm pretty smart, VERY cautious person in the real world...and yet I've done some incredibly stupid and risky things under the influence.  Um...lust?  Same story there.  Um...arrogance?  Yet again -- it makes you stupid to believe that you're smarter than everyone else, and if there's one thing I know about Anthony Weiner (and this is from talking to his former staffers) he was absolutely convinced that he was the smartest cat in Congress, much less any given room.

So your argument about how implausible it would be for him to work this sting and THEN send the dic-pic doesn't wash for me.  Of course it's plausible.  All you need to assume is that WEINER FUCKED UP.  He fat-fingered it.  Ace actually wrote a post that sort of touched on this theme a week ago, pondering how it must feel to be Weiner, thinking about how your life fell apart because of a TYPO.  A stupid typo.  Well the first thing about all these sorts of mistakes (and I'm certain you've made analogous ones in your life, just as I have as well) is that you never expected it to happen when it happened, and when it did the first, second, and fourteenth thing you said to yourself was "how could I have been so dumb?  I was playing with fire!" 

Again: remember that Weiner/Cordova/all the players are human people, with human failings and human flaws (and that these are particularly relevant because this is a SEX and EGO scandal, not something more sterile or procedural), and that therefore you cannot rule out the possibility of human error.  We're not talking about chessmasters or SkyNet machines here, just arrogant people with hubristic flaws.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 20, 2011 10:32 PM (hIWe1)

127   But I DO NOT believe that these supposed DMs are real.  I think they're Dan Rather-style fakes, created by someone (either a lefty troll or a crazy Bill Burton-esque type who's BIBLICALLY CONVINCED of Weiner & Cordova's guilt but who doesn't have any hard evidence) to tell us a story that's 'too good to check. Or it could be Cordova herself, giving us genuine screencaps while knowing we don't have the means to prove they're genuine.

Posted by: Orly Taitz at June 20, 2011 10:35 PM (5iBhX)

128 "
Or it could be Cordova herself, giving us genuine screencaps while knowing we don't have the means to prove they're genuine."

There are artifacts on the left of Weiner's stupid kid avatar.  If they are from Cordova or her pals, the plan is to show they are faked.

Posted by: Dustin at June 20, 2011 10:41 PM (Q3nWV)

129 I mean, we've already ESTABLISHED that Weiner's capable of incredibly stupid, risky, almost insanely dumb & arrogant behavior.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 21, 2011 02:19 AM (hIWe1)

Of course. He's a Democrat.

Posted by: Crazee at June 20, 2011 10:42 PM (H3ujh)

130 So what is the end game in all this? I'm not suggesting that this is not worth following, since it's entertaining and I am all for roasting Teh Weiner. Still, we know he's a perv, have a stockpile of pics to attest to that fact, he resigned and, for the time being, is being treated like a plague rat by his party. Unless parents of underage girls come forward & complain about inappropriate conduct, I don't see much more happening with this. Our betters want this to go away and the media, as usual, is willing to help. The only other way I could see any type of criminal prosecution happening is if Twitter gets a supoena. Considering the DE cops already walked and said "nothing to see here" and there is no other evidence of any other official investigation, for better or worse, this is starting to look like a cold trail.

Posted by: Damiano at June 20, 2011 10:44 PM (3nrx7)

131 "I don't think ANYONE knew about that stuff except Weiner himself and the women he did it with.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 21, 2011 02:14 AM (hIWe1)"

But wouldn't Cordova be more pissed off at Weiner in that case?  She has repeatedly noted she thinks we're all making a big deal out of a silly little thing.  Why would she try to frame Weiner's enemies with framing weiner with a silly little thing?

Not to mention, she's not unattractive and she was calling Weiner a boyfriend.  And they were chatting for a while.  It's hard to imagine Weiner was able to control himself to the point Cordova is shocked by the truth.

Posted by: Dustin at June 20, 2011 10:45 PM (Q3nWV)

132 I've made mistakes but nothing along these lines of oversite even when you adjust scale my life. The mans business is messaging and manipulation. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just saying the events that unfolded require less coincidence if he didn't know she was running interference for him so I'm more prone to believe that is the case. It allows him to be slightly less stupid and slightly more careful.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 20, 2011 10:48 PM (GE1+K)

133 I want to add that the theory that Cordova was behind the "Betty" and "Veronica" Twitter handles, but did all this without Weiner's knowledge, is in my opinion equally as plausible as the theory that they colluded on the matter.  I like the way MikeTheMoose has been playing skeptic to my "bug-eyed believer" on these threads, and he's made me realize that either scenario is workable. 

In fact, despite what I've said above about the limits of human frailty, hubris, and stupidity, I DO like the "Cordova acted w/o Weiner's knowledge" version of the conspiracy theory slightly more than the one I've been advancing simply because, in terms of application of Occam's Razor, it requires fewer 'nodes' to postulate. 

I still think it's quite possible that Weiner himself was in on some sort of 'sting' -- although he and Cordova might well have thought of it as being mere 'mischief' rather than some weighty operation -- and the reason I've hewn to that theory is because I think it provides an semi-understandable context for Weiner's tweeting of the dic-pic (and his claims, which I take to be true after a certain fashion, that it was meant as a 'joke', albeit in a kidding-on-the-square "haha here's a funny pic but um yeah really I think your tits are fucking INCREDIBLE" way).  But MikeTheMoose's point about how someone who knew he was involved in Twitter relationships w/adults might be chary of letting a girl play Junior CIA Agent Provocateur online is good as well, and positing that she did this without his awareness eliminates at least one extra 'node' in the theory.

Either way, I still think those DM screencaps are fakes.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 20, 2011 10:51 PM (hIWe1)

134 Thanks Jeff. I'm a Beyesian guy all the way.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 20, 2011 11:02 PM (GE1+K)

135 I'm out night all.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 20, 2011 11:03 PM (GE1+K)

136

Um, am I the only one that caught this upthread?   

Who the fuck thinks he can email you under a code name, offer no explanation or backstory for his "documents," and then just take off?

Check your email.  Pay particular attention to ready.jpg.
Posted by: Mr. W at June 21, 2011 02:17 AM (5Xf3c)

 

The thing for everyone to remember is that all of these tweets started around March 15th.   About the same time that teh weiner sent out a tweet requesting anyone that wanted him to follow them reply with the hashtag #yesfollowme.

ALL of this started around the same time.   GC & Betty tweeting with teh Weiner.   GC, Betty & Veronica supposedly tweeting to each other.   Damn big coinkydink.

Posted by: Steph at June 20, 2011 11:05 PM (AkdC5)

137

I'm out, too, but I want to know what this is all about tomorrow.

 

120 Who the fuck thinks he can email you under a code name, offer no explanation or backstory for his "documents," and then just take off?

Check your email.  Pay particular attention to ready.jpg.
Posted by: Mr. W at June 21, 2011 02:17 AM (5Xf3c)

 

Posted by: Steph at June 20, 2011 11:09 PM (AkdC5)

138 Well, crap, guess I should have clicked on the link in the nic.   duh.

Posted by: Steph at June 20, 2011 11:10 PM (AkdC5)

139 Come on Steph.  that was kinda obvious a joke.

Get some sleep.

Posted by: Dustin at June 20, 2011 11:17 PM (Q3nWV)

140 Has anyone interviewed goatsred?  He should be able to tell you how long they were going after Weiner.  When B and V showed up.  When GenC started interacting with them etc.  You would think he and Patriot have a real good handle on what was going on and for how long with the Betty and Veronica Twitters. 

I would love to know how this all went down but I don't want anyone falling into a troll after the fact.  Also, I wish someone would make an ultimate time line for this thing.  I have been following it all and even I am lost.

Posted by: Pmzey at June 20, 2011 11:19 PM (pmzey)

141 @141 Yeah, this needs a flow chart or the Glenn Beck chalkboard and magnets treatment. For the right amount of scotch and someone who's ambitious enough to write out the details, I could be bribed to put together a chart. ...or I might just drink the scotch and forget about it.

Posted by: Damiano at June 20, 2011 11:25 PM (3nrx7)

142 This whole Betty and Veronica wormhole is one big, bizarre sideshow.  Up is down and down is up.  [not yet substantiated theory redacted -- ace] The more you look into things, the more confusing they become.

Posted by: cinyc at June 20, 2011 11:55 PM (Z9zFT)

143

Asics Running Shoes are your best sport shoe at Asicsrunningshop,Inc..

Posted by: Asics Running Shoes at June 21, 2011 12:34 AM (N9FIP)

144 Weiner fessed to the skeleton under the patio before anyone found the shallow graves in the forest.

Posted by: Anonymoose at June 21, 2011 12:37 AM (ZgvjV)

145 Who is Tommy Christopher? I've slept since then.

Posted by: Rip Van Wrinkle at June 21, 2011 01:15 AM (Hic+o)

146 Poor Tommy.  Poor, poor Tommy.  He doesn't even know what he's done wrong.

Posted by: SarahW at June 21, 2011 05:34 AM (Z4T49)

147 Finally was able to view the DM's in photoshop.  I saw nothing wrong with the first set, the second set are tragic.  Just ask Slublog

Posted by: SarahW at June 21, 2011 05:51 AM (Z4T49)

148 "i hope breitbart sues everyone who libeled him through out this farce and i hope he wins a trillion dollars"

Starbucks Barrtista in 2014 when BHO's policies are fully in effect. "That will be $500,000,000 for the latte Mr. Ace."

Posted by: dfbaskwill at June 21, 2011 05:52 AM (71LDo)

149 Judge Wapner is on at 1:00.

Posted by: Rain Man at June 21, 2011 06:07 AM (wOaLi)

150 Welcome to summer, M&Ms.

I'm surprised no-one caught the true beauty of the story in the sidebar - a US soldier with a hispanic-sounding name gets injured fighting Islamic terrorists, and they rebuild him using an substance taken FROM A PIG.

I hope he heals well and quickly.   But they should publicize his treatment throughout the Muslim world. 

"We're so badass, we rebuild our troops with pigs".

Just. Damn.

Posted by: RightWingProf at June 21, 2011 07:23 AM (UOcNk)

151 I'm finished with Betty and Veronica!

Posted by: Archie Andrews Pulling Up At Andrew Sullivan's Bungaloo at June 21, 2011 08:14 AM (uaEZS)

152 Look, I am an imbecile, and I can't follow the story at this point.

Can someone point me to a primer on this whole story (i.e., where we are and how we got here, starting at the very beginning when Weiner accidentally tweeted his donger).

Posted by: Kensington at June 21, 2011 08:17 AM (uaEZS)

153 Kinda starting to Really wondering why anybody cares ...

Posted by: Chuckit at June 21, 2011 08:26 AM (A8oTm)

154 Ace, I think you should really be looking at Weiner's marriage to Huma.
Her parents are big time Muslim Brotherhood types. What's she doing marrying a NY Jew?

Posted by: Iblis at June 21, 2011 08:53 AM (9221z)

155 cinyc, Please watch that... This is where I get a little worried about people who've done nothing wrong. I don't like the Open Source Journalism model -- tossing out theories in comment areas -- when it comes to private individuals. The risk of being wrong becomes, in my mind, intolerably high. I'm going to redact the references you made. This is the sort of thing that should be handled by email, not in public comments. I know you did some redacting yourself but you have the initials in there.

Posted by: ace at June 21, 2011 09:00 AM (nj1bB)

156

I have no problem at all giving a timeline of events and actions in this drama.

I will contact ACE to see how he wants to do it. Patterico and others have the whole background and it can be pieced together to make sense.

Posted by: goatsred at June 21, 2011 01:37 PM (hS5aL)

157 No problem, Ace.  I did try to redact as much as possible while keeping things somewhat understandable.  Perhaps I should have come up with a different pseudonym- though that one had been used elsewhere.  Or, better yet, not posted anything at all.

My apologies.

Posted by: cinyc at June 21, 2011 03:13 PM (TccOt)

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