1 First.

2 Ultimately, we must rely on Democrats to be honest.

We're doomed.

3 The Mayans are behind this mess.

4 The hefty fee for renouncing U.S. citizenship may be a worthwhile investment if this shit continues.

5 Ryan plan vs Toomey plan is moot.  This government is a bunch of crack whores who will spend every penny they can borrow and steal till there is nothing left.

6 I won't need Obamakill or social security.  If that beige motherfucker is re-elected, I'll be checking out due to some serious cirrhosis of the liver.

7 Here's video of Beck 'puking' whenever Meaghan MooCain's name was mentioned.

Here was her mommy's response:

Before BeckÂ’s review, Meghan confirmed that she was not actually naked for the filming of the video. And now after BeckÂ’s commentary, Cindy has responded:

IÂ’m so glad Glenn Beck is leaving Fox. Enough vitriol and hate. Glenn you are no rodeo clown. They are decent and nice. You arenÂ’t.

8 I gonna lose weight by cutting out the ketchup on my fries...

9 Why in the hell would Toomey do this if he's a fiscal conservative an adult and serious about the debt?

10 Boning, prepare to enjoy it.

11

...demographically, there simply are a whole lot of aging Baby Boomers and a comparatively small number of Gen Xers, Gen Yers, and Gen Zers.

This demonstrates the urgent need to increase the population of younger people in America.  Preferably younger people with leaf blowers.

12 It's okay, people will accept my shares of gold and silver etfs as currency when everything collapses

13 So, if this is the start point, what is the "Compromise"?

14 It's okay, people will accept my shares of gold and silver etfs as currency when everything collapses

Posted by: Ben at May 11, 2011 02:33 PM (wuv1c)

Bullets will be the new dollars.

15 14 It's okay, people will accept my shares of gold and silver etfs as currency when everything collapses

Posted by: Ben at May 11, 2011 02:33 PM (wuv1c)

Bullets will be the new dollars.

Posted by: FUBAR at May 11, 2011 02:34 PM (1fanL)

Rabbits are the new chickens

16

Why in the hell would Toomey do this if he's a fiscal conservative an adult and serious about the debt?

Several reasons I would think. One it would give us about 10 years to tackle the real problem. Two, it might get bipartisan support. Three, as Ace points out, the Ryan plan or Simpson Bowles plan ain't happening, so this is better than nothing. Four, it might just be political cover. As you've noticed, Republicans are chomping at the bit to support Ryan's plan, so this might be an alternative they can publically support without having to worry about backlash from older medicare and SS dependent voters.

 

17

Which, again, is incredibly popular. America really seems hot for this "coming fiscal catastrophe" thing.

Americans do love a challenge...

18 I would love to know how much we pay out (local, state, fed.) level to illegals.  How much would we save having e-varify for every fucking gov't funded program?

I know that they are killing education, killing SSI, killing food stamps, rent funds, etc.

Has anyone ever answered these honestly (non-partisan)?

People won't vote to hurt themselves, but give them a target that saves their ass and they will fire at will.

Why not say it would help education, medicare, food stamps, rent help programs, job training funds, etc., if you help us establish a program to guarantee that all public funds are only going to legal citizens.

19 Boning, prepare to enjoy it.

Posted by: taylork at May 11, 2011 02:32 PM (5wsU9)

just another day

20

IÂ’m so glad Glenn Beck is leaving Fox. Enough vitriol and hate. Glenn you are no rodeo clown. They are decent and nice. You arenÂ’t.

Posted by: The morons/ettes at May 11, 2011 02:31 PM (penCf)

Glenn Beck is the Antichrist!!!11!!!1!!

21

are= aren't

22 The problem is that the DemonRats and the MSM (BIRM) will indeed make these plans out to be competitive. I can see the MSM pretending to be evenhanded by saying "Hey Mr. Republican I loathe and wish to ambush, why have the Ryan plan when we can have the Toomey plan and not touch entitlements? Do you really want to kill Grandma?" This plan will work since the GOP has jello where its spine should be.

23 Shoot. Sock fail.

24 It used to be that if you showed up naked in public, that you should expect to be mocked.

25 Ah!! that was a sock from the Candace thread. Still works, though. Be back in a bit.

26 10 Boning, prepare to enjoy it.

Posted by: taylork at May 11, 2011 02:32 PM (5wsU9)

BOHICA!

27 Next thing you know, they're wanting to put the deficit in a moat and let alligators eat it!

28 It is political suicide to address Medicare until we get the Presidency and the Senate.

Doing so now is, first, futile.  As Ace correctly points out, it cannot pass.

Second, all it does is piss off voters who will make it even harder to achieve that goal of winning the White House and Senate back.

I've already said my piece on Ryan's plan and why it's not workable.  But if we do in fact want to try Ryan's plan, it is best to STFU about it and bring it up again after 2012.

The 2012 budget they are wrangling about now, should focus on the other crap, like Toomey is trying to do.

29 Boning, prepare to enjoy it.
Posted by: taylork at May 11, 2011 02:32 PM (5wsU9)

I'm going to get a shirt made that says:

front: racist? hell no
back: I just don't like being forced to take it up the ass

30 4 The hefty fee for renouncing U.S. citizenship may be a worthwhile investment if this shit continues.

hey, do you have any room in Canada for a shy chemistry professor?

31

Older voters are the strongest large-scale constituency for the GOP. Politically, I never really understood the Ryan plan even though something that drastic needs to be done.The Ryan plan seemed to be voting on changes to Medicare that could be changed by new administrations/congress over the next ten years, yet guaranteeing political demagoguing even as you know it is deal on arrival in the Senate due to both parties.

It took 60 senators, a large majority in the House, and a liberal President to barely push Obamacare over the finish line. A long-term debt solution that won't raise taxes and cut entitlements will require a similar coalition of conservatives.

32 One it would give us about 10 years to tackle the real problem. Two, it might get bipartisan support. Three, as Ace points out, the Ryan plan or Simpson Bowles plan ain't happening, so this is better than nothing. Four, it might just be political cover. As you've noticed, Republicans are chomping at the bit to support Ryan's plan, so this might be an alternative they can publically support without having to worry about backlash from older medicare and SS dependent voters.

Posted by: Ben at May 11, 2011 02:35 PM (wuv1c)

The left-wing message machine just called.  They said we're making this too easy. 

"Paul Ryan's plan is not only extremeextremeextreme, but according to his fellow right-wingnut, it's not even necessary.  Wingnuts like Ryan want to cut SS even when they don't have to do so, just to see your grandma out on the street fighting cats over dead animals.  We agree with Toomey that cutting entitlements isn't necessary, and we won't go along with it.  Watch as it will turn out that we don't even need to cut the vital services Toomey wants to cut, we just need to raise taxes an eensy-weensy bit on the very richest and eeevilest among us."

33

No conflict. Push Ryan's settle for Toomey's

My prediction: both fail to win a majority of even GOP votes in Congress. Spending will not be cut meaningfully from any budget short of catastrophe. No one inside or out of government really wants to cut anything deeply. Period.

I'm conflicted too--about whether I should be pulling for catastrophe sooner rather than later, to get on with the rebuild;  or whether I should just say F it and get mine--like everyone else is doing.

34 Just imagine how unobtrusive government could afford to become IF WE ENACTED BOTH PLANS. Imagine how much lower taxes could be. Imagine how much money we'd all save.

35  That was a nice daydream. Now, back to reality. Cowboy poetry and all.

36 13 So, if this is the start point, what is the "Compromise"?

we trim about fifty bucks and call it a "victory"?

37

FUBAR,

I agree with you. I think Toomey's plan is a politcally feasable stop gap.

I would much prefer Ryan's plan or something even more extreme than that.

But if we don't win the three branches of gov't in 2012, then it doesn't matter.

38 The hefty fee for renouncing U.S. citizenship may be a worthwhile investment if this shit continues.

I could swear that we just had a thread yesterday about how the Mexicans ought to stay in their country and fix it, not run away.  But then, I was smoking crack, so I could be wrong.

39 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at May 11, 2011 02:40 PM (f9c2L)

Until an adult is in the White House and the inmates are no longer running the Senate, Ryan's plan should be treated (sort of) like the Demotards treat DREAM and other amnesty measures: not expecting to pass, but keeping the fire smoldering under hardcore parts of the base to keep them interested.

The difference (the "sort of") being that the Ryan plan is a goal with the levers of power intact.

40 Kicking The Can Down The Road: Part 23: The Bonening.

41 30 4 The hefty fee for renouncing U.S. citizenship may be a worthwhile investment if this shit continues.

hey, do you have any room in Canada for a shy chemistry professor?

Posted by: chemjeff at May 11, 2011 02:41 PM (7mSYS)

--Get in while you can!

42 Keep in mind that "entitlements" does not = "mandatory" spending. Yes, the mandatory side of the spending budget is just about twice as big as the discretionary spending.

But nowhere near all of that is SS/Medicare. A little known fact is that the Obamanites moved porkulous spending into the "mandatory" category. This is something that was supposed to be temporary. Removing all of it would take over a trillion out of that category.

43

I keep hearing that concern about a fiscal catastrophe is politically popular, but what we want is that coupled with desire to dramatically cut spending and particularly entitlement spending.

We can't even find majorities of voters in the Republican Party who want to cut Medicare spending. If you keep pushing catastrophe and don't move the spending discussion, taxes will be increased. The Republican lines about not having a taxation problem but a spending problem aren't sticking with entitlement spending, the bulk of the long-term debt problem.

44 Stop worrying, and learn to love the "coming fiscal catastrophe."

Disclaimer: I'm 71.. You deal with it.

45 I am doing calculations on how to feed myself after the crash and have a question.

Will I get more field plowed running alcohol in a tractor or as payment to Hobos?

46 38 The hefty fee for renouncing U.S. citizenship may be a worthwhile investment if this shit continues.

I could swear that we just had a thread yesterday about how the Mexicans ought to stay in their country and fix it, not run away.  But then, I was smoking crack, so I could be wrong.

Posted by: FUBAR at May 11, 2011 02:44 PM (1fanL)

--

Yeah, I'm getting a little fed up with the cut and run stuff. 

47

But shouldn't we be asking the following question: "Is Toomey high?"

"Pro-growth tax policies are at the heart of ToomeyÂ’s plan. His budget reaches balance by 2020 by lowering federal spending to 18.5 percent of gross domestic product, reforming the tax code, lowering marginal tax rates, and closing tax loopholes. It also reduces the corporate-tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent and indexes the alternative minimum tax for inflationÂ…"

You know, I'm familiar with the Laffer curve, and I'm down with that, but I really don't see how one could close a $1.5T gap this way. To start with, how does the Federal spending magically drop to 18.5% GDP? This mentions no spending cuts at all. Sounds like maybe he's just making some wild projections that GDP is going to skyrocket, to me. What are we now, Democrats? Do I get to pick what color unicorn I get?

48 Waaaaa waaaa we want we want! Cut nothing, ill die in 20 years anyway!

49 I could swear that we just had a thread yesterday about how the Mexicans ought to stay in their country and fix it, not run away.  But then, I was smoking crack, so I could be wrong.

Posted by: FUBAR at May 11, 2011 02:44 PM (1fanL)

--Heh, I'm actually part Mexican.

In any event, I don't think I'd be eligible for Canadian citizenship for several years.  Still, I could just not file for the next few years, and if anything is owed in the meantime (I have not had to pay yet) I'll just say, "Molon labe, bitches!" and have to go Polanski.

50 Hah-ha.

51 The other sad truth is that many Republicans won 2010 more on their defense of Medicare than there opposition to Obamacare. Many Republican freshman talked as much about avoiding Medicare cuts as repealing Obamacare. The whole Ryan strategy wasn't aligned with any understanding of what happened just months before.

52

I agree with you. I think Toomey's plan is a politcally feasable stop gap.

I would much prefer Ryan's plan or something even more extreme than that.

But if we don't win the three branches of gov't in 2012, then it doesn't matter.

Posted by: Ben at May 11, 2011 02:44 PM (wuv1c)

Yeah, I wasn't busting your ass.  Just can't figure how Dems can coordinate so well (gusty call!), but the Pubs don't even realize when they're setting each other up.  Maybe I can figure it.  Dems are all about collective action.

53 I get really sick and tired of all the sugar titty squalling brats bitching about baby-boomers.

54
OT:

Reid: ‘We Need The People Of America To Rise Up’ For Amnesty Bill

Now imagine if an R had . . . . . . (you know the rest)

55 The thing that is good about cutting government spending across the board, in addition to saving all that money, is it also cuts their interference in the marketplace. Without the ethanol subsidies, the market for corn would not be all twisted up, affecting the price of food products that use corn directly, or as feed for meat. Etc, ad infinitum. The first step to reducing the heavy hand of government is to reduce the money they use to implement their destructive policies.

56

Yeah, I'm getting a little fed up with the cut and run stuff. 

Posted by: Y-not at May 11, 2011 02:46 PM (pW2o

--Hey, the U.S. was just fine when I moved out in 2004.  It went to shit since, so don;t blame me.

57 Just imagine how unobtrusive government could afford to become IF WE ENACTED BOTH PLANS. Imagine how much lower taxes could be. Imagine how much money we'd all save.

An almost incalculably small amount of all those things.

But we'll make it up in volume. Of boning.

58 wow. sorry about the huge lettering. I forgot fix the code before I posted it.

59 Did someone mention sugar tits?

60 Also, on the "eliminate loopholes" and cut rates" style of income tax reduction I am against that. That is exactly what we did with the Reagan Tax cuts.

What happened as soon as he was out of office? The rates went back up and the deductions did not come back. So what he did wound up becoming a tax increase.

A loophole = any tax deduction that a commie does not like.

61

40 

Followed by:

Kicking the Can Down the Road, Part 24: The Three-Legged Race

Where the Republicans tie their right leg to the Democrats left leg, and kick away at the can with their common leg. Off the cliff.

62 This mentions no spending cuts at all. Sounds like maybe he's just making some wild projections that GDP is going to skyrocket, to me. What are we now, Democrats? Do I get to pick what color unicorn I get?

Posted by: Optimizer at May 11, 2011 02:48 PM (F56VB)

Heh.  Lowering the corporate tax rate and closing the corporate loopholes are supposed to be revenue-neutral.  And I think everybody ought to have an alternative minimum tax.  Nobody should pay less than their "fair share," right?  47% pay no federal taxes, and about that same amount think gummint is the right size.  It ain't free, assholes.

I'll take orange and blue striped.

63

60 Did someone mention sugar tits?

That was last night, on the ONT...

64 Gimme gimme....I once paid 20 bucks into social security, you owe me mother fuckers. Also pay for my healthcare and housing. Oh you want a thank you? Fuck you stop bitching about us baby boomers kid and get to work payong for my shit. I spent my youth dodging the draft and voting for every D member of congress I could you owe me.

65 I see another judge has put a stop to a states vote.  Utah's Immigration bill put on hold.  Can somebody explain how something that is 'illegal' to do even makes it on the ballot?  Getting pretty sick of these judges

66 People won't vote to hurt themselves, but give them a target that saves their ass and they will fire at will.

Posted by: The morons/ettes at May 11, 2011 02:36 PM (penCf)

Indeed.  The Right and Joe Public have many enemies in common.  It's time we started pointing out that fact with greater vigor.  The illegals and their sympathizers will never vote for our side.  Libtards already call us racist all day long.  Time to disregard them.  If we can't unite a majority behind our good ideas, we should unite them behind our common hates.  Of course, you need people to elect who have the stones to carry out that which must be done once in office.

67
Before throwing in the towel, renouncing birthright and moving to another country, I would suggest living in that paradise for a few months.  Amazingly, living among the citizenry, smelling the open sewers, purchasing meat from unrefrigerated open air markets, and being subject to their injustice system can alter the perception of nirvana. 

68

--Hey, the U.S. was just fine when I moved out in 2004.  It went to shit since, so don;t blame me.

Posted by: logprof at May 11, 2011 02:51 PM (BP6Z1)

So you're the one that moved to Canada because Bush was re elected. I see how you are.

69 60Did someone mention sugar tits?

I didn't directly mention these on a previous thread . . .

70 I get really sick and tired of all the sugar titty squalling brats bitching about baby-boomers.

Posted by: Vic at May 11, 2011 02:50 PM (M9Ie6)

It's always "I I I" with you people, isn't it? 

71 Vic solution:

Cut every department and regulation not specifically authorized by the Constitution.

Enact a flat tax on everyone of 15%, no minimums and no deductions and payable on all forms of income.

Eliminate all other federal taxes on everything.

Limit total federal spending to the previous year's tax revenues except in time of war.

72 49 Waaaaa waaaa we want we want! Cut nothing, ill die in 20 years anyway! -- This is the most logical thing I've ever read on this board.

73

Forgive me for sounding like the simpleton that admittedly didn't read the plant yet, but...

How can this be done where Medicare/Medicaid represented 23% of our spending last year and Social Security was at about 20%?

Did he redefine what we consider to be entitlements??

Yes, 2/3 are earned entitlements but that doesn't account for the fact that they're both slated to go bust.

What gives?

74 Hey, if you guys are heading north you can tag along with me.

75 Me me me, I I I, you wanna know why STD rates in old folks homes are high as shit now? Me mother fucker. Now get back to work I need my fucking 800 dollar a week prescriptions paid for, which include my fucking Viagra.

76

Yes, 2/3 are earned entitlements but that doesn't account for the fact that they're both slated to go bust.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 11, 2011 02:58 PM (pLTLS)

"Earned entitlements"?  The words are English, but they make no sense together.

77 Toomey's plan has all the advantages of being accused of touching entitlements without actually doing so.

78

Toomey is touting that his plan spends MORE on Medicare. This is the electoral reality of a Republican Party with more than a few Huckabee voters.

79

"Earned entitlements"?  The words are English, but they make no sense together.

Sorry guess my Demspeak/snark didn't shine though there. That's how they phrase them.

80 Toomey's plan has all the advantages of being accused of touching entitlements without actually doing so.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at May 11, 2011 03:00 PM (FkKjr)

Yup.  Just like racism.  We're going to be accused, why do anything different than we would have?

81 76 Me me me, I I I, you wanna know why STD rates in old folks homes are high as shit now?

Me mother fucker. Now get back to work I need my fucking 800 dollar a week prescriptions paid for, which include my fucking Viagra.

Posted by: The Spoiled Baby Boom Generation that wants to retire on their grandkids pocketbooks at May 11, 2011 03:00 PM (YCzaP)

Sounds like I need to start giving them those new Viagra condoms in order to save in health care costs.

82

So you're the one that moved to Canada because Bush was re elected. I see how you are.

Posted by: robtr at May 11, 2011 02:56 PM (MtwBb)

--Heh, it was actually the summer before.  I was so busy with the new gig that I did not get my absentee ballot prepared.  It was kinda moot since I was registered in Maryland.

83 One other thing I think is funny. Ya'll think you can get the current crop of useless assholes in Washington to cut SS when they will not even cut piddling shit like NPR.

84 USA determined to become West Greece. Outlook is Doomy.

85

Sorry guess my Demspeak/snark didn't shine though there. That's how they phrase them.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 11, 2011 03:02 PM (pLTLS)

Even my commie liberal collidge professer father, who used to claim that they were earned, now admits that it just ain't so.  Delusional.

86 jesus that pic on the sidebar is freaky. take it down! that has to be brewer. revoke his pic posting privileges!

87 smelling the open sewers, purchasing meat from unrefrigerated open air markets, and being subject to their injustice system can alter the perception of nirvana.

Bravo!  The guy in the next office is planning to bail and go to Panama.  I'd like to bail and go someplace better before the Federal crack whores steal my IRA but I ain't yet found anyplace better.

88 Posted by: Vic at May 11, 2011 02:50 PM (M9Ie6)

Oh, Vic, we love you.  The spoiled baby boomers are really the ones who scream "I WANT WHAT'S COMING TO ME!!!!" when their definition of "what's coming to me" includes a blank check on the US Treasury.  I don't think that's you.

89

Also, all of this now has to come within the next two months I guess since Boehner is now decided he wants to cut trillions from the federal budget.

There is no strategy on this. I imagine in one month we will have five more Senators with plans on the deficit.

90 Which, again, is incredibly popular. America really seems hot for this "coming fiscal catastrophe" thing. When society collapses all my student loan debt will disappear and the rich won't be rich anymore and and and we'll all live in harmony and get free internet access! Fight the power!

91 Ya'll think you can get the current crop of useless assholes in Washington to cut SS when they will not even cut piddling shit like NPR.

Posted by: Vic at May 11, 2011 03:02 PM (M9Ie6)

Nope.  I just want to be able to say "I told you so."  I'm pretty sure the cuts will come only when the money runs out.

92

The left-wing message machine just called.  They said we're making this too easy. 

"Paul Ryan's plan is not only extremeextremeextreme, but according to his fellow right-wingnut, it's not even necessary.  Wingnuts like Ryan want to cut SS even when they don't have to do so, just to see your grandma out on the street fighting cats over dead animals.  We agree with Toomey that cutting entitlements isn't necessary, and we won't go along with it.  Watch as it will turn out that we don't even need to cut the vital services Toomey wants to cut, we just need to raise taxes an eensy-weensy bit on the very richest and eeevilest among us."

The Numbers just called too. They wish to point out that unless the GOP makes massive gains (with a RINO proof margin) in 2012 and takes the Presidency too, Ryan's plan will go nowhere.

Does that suck? Totally. But that is the reality.

93

One component of the medicare problem (and the health care problem in general) that no one seems to address is the fact that we need to improve the supply of that commodity if we're to bring the cost down.  Restricting access based on some arbitrary set of rules will not work.  It will only further suppress the supply, and even doctors are able to operate in the black market for cash like providers of any other good. 

We must destroy the needless costs and the factors that limit the growth of the healthcare supply.  First and foremost, the lawyering cost.  Tort reform now!  Second, we need to break the guild-like hold that MD's have on medical practice through the tyranny of credentialism.

To cut the cost of healthcare, we must increase the supply.  Figuring out how to tax and spend more is not the solution.

94 Arguably, getting America on board with the notion that significant government spending cuts don't mean the end of life as we know it  is an important goal.

So, I think that continuing to put entitlement reform on the backburner for now is a reasonable idea if, and only if, it comes with serious, cabinent level closing cuts in discretionary spending.

Make the Democrats argue that we need to continue to throw money away on HUD and the NEA instead of SS and Medicare.

95 OT: Hey, all may not be lost for our future generations.

96 Oh, Vic, we love you.  The spoiled baby boomers are really the ones who scream "I WANT WHAT'S COMING TO ME!!!!" when their definition of "what's coming to me" includes a blank check on the US Treasury.  I don't think that's you.

Posted by: chemjeff at May 11, 2011 03:05 PM (7mSYS)

That's nice.  Now GET OFF HIS LAWN!

97 It's okay, people will accept my shares of gold and silver etfs as currency when everything collapses

Posted by: Ben at May 11, 2011 02:33 PM (wuv1c)

Bullets will be the new dollars.

Posted by: FUBAR at May 11, 2011 02:34 PM (1fanL)

Rabbits are the new chickens
Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 11, 2011 02:35 PM (LdYLm)

 

Dougie, it's the new Hokey Pokey (Hopey Changey? What?)

98 Wanna know why colleges are so liberal? Me, I control the fucking tenure now. Wanna know why the MFM is filled with a bunch of lefty fucks? Me, I'm the editor and I teach the J schools. Now get ready to be saddled with generational debt to pay for my retirement and healthcare as I use my money and all my power to demonize you and vote against you if you try to stop me. Bend over I haven't finished fucking you in the ass yet because I'm a giver.

99 One component of the medicare problem (and the health care problem in general) that no one seems to address is the fact that we need to improve the supply of that commodity if we're to bring the cost down.

YES.  We need to open up more medical schools and stop with the ridiculous artificially low caps on enrollment which serve only to drive supply down.

100 Bravo!  The guy in the next office is planning to bail and go to Panama.  I'd like to bail and go someplace better before the Federal crack whores steal my IRA but I ain't yet found anyplace better.

Posted by: Bob Saget at May 11, 2011 03:05 PM (F/4zf)

--Panama is a good place to HQ a shell corporation, but to live Belize sounds better.

101 They can pass the Ryan bill in 2013 via budget reconciliation.  If SCOTUS has thrown out Obamacare by then, that that can BE the focus of a Republican majority in all chambers.  For now, a plan like Toomey's may bet the only viable thing that could actually be passed.

102 Posted by: FUBAR at May 11, 2011 03:07 PM (1fanL)

oh don't worry, I'm already way off Vic's lawn, I don't want to see his firearm collection up close

103 Meanwhile, Arianna huffington should be laughed off the stage.

104 96 OT: Hey, all may not be lost for our future generations.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 11, 2011 03:07 PM (pLTLS)

--I'll be impressed when that happens in Madison or Berkeley.

105

There is no strategy on this. I imagine in one month we will have five more Senators with plans on the deficit.

Posted by: Paper at May 11, 2011 03:05 PM (VoSja)

Outside of maybe a half dozen Republican Senators the rest think political strategy is for the little people.

I have to give the Democrats credit, they are truly good at all aping the same soundbites, no matter how "moderate" or "independent" they might be.

106

Holy Shit is that Benecio Del Toro in the side bar as the new head of AQ?

 

107 Being nice and planning to "fix" entitlements down the road may be politically more palatable, but there's an essential problem: we don't have the time to fuck around. That's why even the Ryan plan in insufficient -- it doesn't even begin to control costs for more than a decade. If you don't "touch" Medicare and SS, you might as well not bother, because those two programs alone will bankrupt the government. We either fix it soon or just declare the whole mess unsolveable and commit ourselves to either hyperinflation or default some years hence. There can be no other outcome if we don't kill the entitlement beast.

108 --Panama is a good place to HQ a shell corporation, but to live Belize sounds better.

YES.  I have heard awesome things about Belize.  Like, they speak English and they have hawt beach babes.

109 All you need to know about Belize

110 Toomey's claim that he balances the budget in 9yrs while following Ryan's same models on pro-growth policies but not touching entitlements simply doesn't work. Mandatory is currently 63% of spending and is set on autopilot. As the Boomers retire, that number is going to increase and we will keep adding debt as a result. So Toomey's claim that he balances the budget without touching mandatory is ridiculous.

111 109 --Panama is a good place to HQ a shell corporation, but to live Belize sounds better.

YES.  I have heard awesome things about Belize.  Like, they speak English and they have hawt beach babes.

Posted by: chemjeff at May 11, 2011 03:10 PM (7mSYS)

--OTOH, if the USA collapses, they'd have to un-peg their currency from the U.S. dollar.  Maybe peg it to Canada's.

112 101 Bravo!  The guy in the next office is planning to bail and go to Panama.  I'd like to bail and go someplace better before the Federal crack whores steal my IRA but I ain't yet found anyplace better.

Posted by: Bob Saget at May 11, 2011 03:05 PM (F/4zf)

--Panama is a good place to HQ a shell corporation, but to live Belize sounds better.

 

Costa Rica or Chile are better bets.

113 We need to open up more medical schools and stop with the ridiculous artificially low caps on enrollment which serve only to drive supply down.

Posted by: chemjeff at May 11, 2011 03:08 PM (7mSYS)

Good luck with that.  As long as we're dreaming, let's get rid of the FDA too.

114

Republicans are not going to look past polls that show their Medicare cuts are unpopular in their own party. I though the Republicans were unserious about cutting entitlements when their main opposition to Obamacare was that it cut Medicare.

And it worked. They got elected (particularly in swing districts) on this message. Older voters turned out and trending strong for Republicans.

This more than anything is evidence to me that the next year will be nothing but smoke and mirrors and that even if Republicans held everything in 2012, nothing would be done.

115

111 Toomey's claim that he balances the budget in 9yrs while following Ryan's same models on pro-growth policies but not touching entitlements simply doesn't work. Mandatory is currently 63% of spending and is set on autopilot. As the Boomers retire, that number is going to increase and we will keep adding debt as a result. So Toomey's claim that he balances the budget without touching mandatory is ridiculous.

 

Simple answer, no payouts until the age of 70. Or pick an age that makes it work.

116 Posted by: chemjeff at May 11, 2011 03:08 PM (7mSYS)

Labor costs are skyrocketing in health care, but not among MDs. It's the increases in other labor that is to blame. And...technology is hugely overpriced because of the reimbursement nightmare that the government has created.

Current MDs will have a tough time repaying their loans. Their salaries have been dropping, not increasing.

117 Cruises to Belize

118 Amazingly, living among the citizenry, smelling the open sewers, purchasing meat from unrefrigerated open air markets, and being subject to their injustice system can alter the perception of nirvana. 

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at May 11, 2011 02:56 PM (ndqJC)

This is wise advice - I've been doing this myself.  You gotta go in with your eyes open.

That said, zero capital gains tax and next-to-zero property tax make up for a lot of things, and there are places to go where they have closed sewers and courts that are only a little more corrupt than our own.  It's amazing to go to a place where minding your own business means you get to live in relative peace.  I sure wish we had that here.  It's true that those places are a bit poor and sorta dirty.  You definitely have to be selective.  But it's not hopeless.

119 When I die I'm taking the US dollar with me.

120

Let's all escape to Mars. Sheila Jackson Lee said we've landed there.

 

121

Toomey's plan is ridiculously dependent on being able to freeze every single category of discretionary spending and economic projections that would basically make any deficit disappear.

I can make my own plan right now that cuts no spending and has the GDP growing by 32% each quarter. Deficit solved!

122

YES.  I have heard awesome things about Belize.  Like, they speak English and they have hawt beach babes.

If you like jumping in the ocean or diving down in it, Belize is amazing. Figuring out a way to retire there early if the USA truly goes to hell would be nice.

Then again, if the USA goes to hell, so does the world. We really do police the globe.

123 Bravo!  The guy in the next office is planning to bail and go to Panama.  I'd like to bail and go someplace better before the Federal crack whores steal my IRA but I ain't yet found anyplace better.

Posted by: Bob Saget at May 11, 2011 03:05 PM (F/4zf)

 

That's been my problem in my search also.  When I compared all the pros and cons of any particular country my conclusion was always the same:  The USA really is the last bastion of any hope of true freedom in this world.  Reagan was right.  If we go down there's no place else to go. 

 

 

124 It is a never ending source of consternation for me that Democrats can pass just about anything they want when they got power, but Republicans can't do the same when THEY have power.

The problem here are the Republicans, not the Democrats. The Dems are the scorpion, they will do what they do, but our only firewall, the Republicans, don't do shit. Even after Nov. 2010, they still aren't really doing shit, and I don't necessarily mean that they must get laws enacted, I also am talking in terms of setting the ground for future battles. They aren't doing anything.

God help us.

125

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 11, 2011 03:14 PM (LH6ir)

Huh I didn't realize MD salaries were falling

So the real need is for more nurses, med techs, things like that?  Hmm okay

Would you happen to have any statistics on this stuff?  Because I think it would be useful for my department

126 Was this everything you thought it would be?

Okay enough dicking around. Off to read this plan that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of even getting out of committee.

127 Even if you fucks move to fucking China I will still find you and make your US dollar worthless.

128 43 Keep in mind that "entitlements" does not = "mandatory" spending. Yes, the mandatory side of the spending budget is just about twice as big as the discretionary spending...

Entitlements are a part of mandatory. At the moment, we are shifting between which entitlement is adding the most amount of debt but numbers-crunching says Medicare will become the largest problem.

129 Told ya so.

130 YES.  I have heard awesome things about Belize.  Like, they speak English and they have hawt beach babes.

Posted by: chemjeff at May 11, 2011 03:10 PM (7mSYS)

Rio de Janeiro.  Biggest Mardi Gras party on the planet.  Can you say boobehs?  I knew you could!  Also, I hear Brazil's oil industry just got a big ol' infusion of cash. 

131 Belize Guide

132 I can make my own plan right now that cuts no spending and has the GDP growing by 32% each quarter.

Hey, that's my plan!  Just let me strangle a few more industries and we're sure to see massive growth...

133 I've said it lots of times before but it bears repeating: the battle was lost when we stopped arguing about whether we should even be a huge welfare state, and started arguing about how we were going to pay for it. The GOP isn't a small-government party; it's a big-government party that doesn't want to tax people at the rates they'd need to in order to maintain the big government they like. At least the Donks are honest about it.

134 Panama is a good place to HQ a shell corporation, but to live Belize sounds better.
***
YES.  I have heard awesome things about Belize.  Like, they speak English and they have hawt beach babes.

Posted by: chemjeff at May 11, 2011 03:10 PM (7mSYS)

Yeah - but the costs there are going up, up, up because of all those things.  It may be too late for a middle-middle class person to retire there in any comfort.  Plus they have a serious problem with malaria carrying mosquitos.

135

You guys remember Eddie Murphy skit on "Cill my landlord"? I keep thinking of that powerful poem today. Don't know why.

http://tinyurl.com/4yjz9cr

136 Fly to Belize for less than $400

137

Costa Rica or Chile are better bets.

Posted by: Goober at May 11, 2011 03:12 PM (Q5+Og)

 

Just talked with a guy the other day who came back to the US after living in Costa Rica for five years.  He said the place was a shithole.

138 I like the idea of an either/or situation. It presents democrats with the idea of either significantly cutting domestic spending or allowing entitlement reform. It may make entitlement reform more palatable.

139

You guys remember Eddie Murphy skit on "Cill my landlord"? I keep thinking of that powerful poem today. Don't know why.

http://tinyurl.com/4yjz9cr

Posted by: dagny at May 11, 2011 03:18 PM (23y25)

You forgot to denounce yourself.

140 If enough of us move to one of these shitholes we could unshithole it. Like Galt's Gulch.

141

You forgot to denounce yourself.

Whoops. I denouce myself for remembering.

142 If enough of us move to one of these shitholes we could unshithole it. Like Galt's Gulch.

Posted by: dagny at May 11, 2011 03:21 PM (23y25)

In that case, I vote for an oil-producing country.  Russia should be easy, they're dying anyway.

143 I'm not moving anywhere. I'm going down with the ship and I'm taking you all with me.

144 The GOP isn't a small-government party; it's a big-government party that doesn't want to tax people at the rates they'd need to in order to maintain the big government they like. At least the Donks are honest about it.

Posted by: Monty at May 11, 2011 03:18 PM (/0a60)

Who cares if the Donks are honest about it, the takeaway is that there is no hope. Given that the solution to our mess will not come from politicians, the system will break.How it will do so is the real question, isn't it? I recall reading that most such crises in history have led to war and substantial loss of life, with the World Wars being the most obvious examples.

What monstrous war are we heading towards? Not a nice thought...

145 Posted by: chemjeff at May 11, 2011 03:16 PM (7mSYS)

Their salaries aren't falling because of increased supply; they are falling because of decreased reimbursement and fewer new MDs going into lucrative practices. They are coming out of medical school with a 9am-5pm mentality, which is bad for us as we age. I want a hard-charging, well-trained doctor who is willing to work hard to maintain my health. I don't want a clock-watcher.

I'll poke around for data, but probably the AMA has some #s.

146

#134 The GOP isn't a small-government party; it's a big-government party that doesn't want to tax people at the rates they'd need to in order to maintain the big government they like.

Perfectly stated.

147 It's incredibly frustrating to hear all these lawmakers promise that they can balance the budget or have a surplus in 10yrs without tackling our largest problems. Toomey's plan gets a slightly larger rate of growth than Ryan's but he can't spend more on entitlements while letting them collapse and claim he somehow reaches surplus. You could shutter every govt dept and leave them to write checks and you'd still be in the red.

148 Oddly, Eddie Murphy's Cill my landlord had the same rhyme scheme and meter as "the Crystal Stair" by Langston Hughes.

149

In that case, I vote for an oil-producing country.  Russia should be easy, they're dying anyway.

Posted by: FUBAR at May 11, 2011 03:22 PM (1fanL)

What? The same continent as the Chicoms and the neanderthal Arabs? Dayum, you got some balls.

150 Pat Toomey?  RINO.

151

#148

This is Toomey's plan because Toomey's long-term electoral reality is bleak.

He barely won an election in a wave year. He is not viable in the long-term in that state taking Ryan's approach. Democrats seem willing to sacrifice their electoral careers for Obamacare. Republicans start triangulating and planning for the next cycle the moment they get in office.

152

In that case, I vote for an oil-producing country.  Russia should be easy, they're dying anyway.

Posted by: FUBAR at May 11, 2011 03:22 PM (1fanL)

You can have it.  If I'm going to leave the US to start a new colony, it's not going to be in the frozen wastes of Russia.  Better to move to a tropical island with no critical resources worth stealing so we'd be left alone - we just need some dudes who have the know how to set up a LFTR to power our ice makers, distilleries, and golf carts.

153 Take care, sirs. Those over there are not giants but windmills. Those things that seem to be their arms are sails which, when they are whirled around by the wind, generate unfathomable wealth and energy!

154

In that case, I vote for an oil-producing country.  Russia should be easy, they're dying anyway.

Posted by: FUBAR at May 11, 2011 03:22 PM (1fanL)

What? The same continent as the Chicoms and the neanderthal Arabs? Dayum, you got some balls.

Posted by: KG at May 11, 2011 03:25 PM (4L0zr)

 

Think about it carefully.  Which nation would really be easier to turn around; the USA or fucking Russia.

155

What monstrous war are we heading towards? Not a nice thought...

Posted by: KG at May 11, 2011 03:23 PM (4L0zr)

Well, it is interesting to speculate.

If there was ever a left/right civil war in the US, it would likely be bloody, but end up with a stalemate looking something like the 2004 presidential election. And this would largely be "winning" for the right - give each segment the opportunity to live by their ideals.

The Left States of America would likely end up like Mexico before fracturing into petty states within a generation, the Right States of America would likely return to sane fiscal policy and a booming economy. Presuming Alaskan/Gulf oil, and few restrictions on economic development you could see this half of the old United States with a higher GDP within a generation...

Of course a leftwing win would be much more problematic. From the left's perspective the fundamental problem with us, the productive class, is that we won't give them enough of our labor. With a massive war and its inherent death and destruction, this would only be exacerbated. But the more they punish the productive class after winning, the fewer members of it they would find to use - a problem we've already seen since Pelosi/Reid took congress.

In this case I see an increasingly Stalinistic Left States of America. The kulaks of this new state would be liquidated to serve as an example to the rest...but the economic system being fundamentally unsustainable would still lead to massive labor/prison camps and abject want - not of wide screen TVs and luxury hybrid SUVs - but food and clothes.

156 >>Rio de Janeiro. Party in Rio, sure. Live there, no freaking way. Crime is out of control and if you think we are socialist Brazil will rock your socks. Whoever said Chile up thread is right. If I was going to live anywhere in S. America Chile would be at the top of my list. Nice beaches, modernizing cities, good quality of life.

157 Please caption Mooshcelle's dancing face on drudge.

158 Posted by: 18-1 at May 11, 2011 03:33 PM (bgcml)

Well, I'm thinking that the troubles ahead are going to be of an international nature rather than a purely domestic one...

159 Posted by: 18-1 at May 11, 2011 03:33 PM (bgcml)

Thank you 18-1 for that uplifting news flash.  I am now going to suck on a tailpipe.

160 Also, I doubt things will turn out that neatly, either.

161 Taking care of Medicare later makes sense if we actually take care of the rest NOW. That way it will be crystal clear that Medicare *is* a problem and that we *must* address it. After all, it's easier to take on the 800 pound Gorilla if you've already taken care of the snakes and wolves.

162

Just talked with a guy the other day who came back to the US after living in Costa Rica for five years. He said the place was a shithole.

Posted by: Soona at May 11, 2011 03:20 PM (N63LY)

Yeah?  Well your buddy was an asshole.  We're glad he's gone.

163

Then again, if the USA goes to hell, so does the world. We really do police the globe.

Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1939!

164 The GOP isn't a small-government party; it's a big-government party that doesn't want to tax people at the rates they'd need to in order to maintain the big government they like.

Perfectly stated.

Posted by: Paper

It's poorly stated. There is no rate at which this monstrosity can be funded, long term. It grows until it consumes the system. Masscare is less than ten years old (?) and it is already consuming the state budget, AND limiting access to medical AND driving insurers out of the state. Furthermore, as taxes are increased, it inhibits growth. It also encourages graft, both by individuals and the erstwhile guardians. That is the plight of Europe. That is becoming our plight. To say that taxation is in any way a solution is false.

165

#165

I think you missed what Monty meant. He means that the Republicans only pretend to be fiscal conservatives on spending and they hide their record of spending by being fiscal conservatives when it comes to tax cuts.

And I agree. They want all the spending and none of the taxation to pay for it, while I want none of the taxes AND none of the spending.

 

166 Sure we can run on the "Path (Back) To Prosperity" and run the table in November 2012.  It simply means a relentless, canny, reasonable public education campaign.  That was the message of the 2010 midterms: a majority of the public is ready to have this "adult conversation".  That's why Dems and their Obamedia propagandists are trying so hard to spin to the contrary - in order to intimidate Republicans into dropping it and slitting their political throats with their own base and independents.

As to getting TPBTP passed in 2013, that's simple, too: Change Senate rules to take the filibuster away from the Dems and ram it through like they did ObamaCare, on a simple party line vote.  The bill goes to President Pawlenty, he signs it, and mission accomplished.

If this country is to be saved from the Dems' fiscal apocalypse, the GOP can't avoid using their tactics to do it.  Period.

167

Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1939!

Posted by: Beagle at May 11, 2011 03:56 PM (sOtz/)

Stop being so optimistic.

168 Blame the kittehs - they put the "cat" in catastrophe ... But the BBs should retain their position at the head of the line ...

169 It would REALLY be nice if you stopped assuming that all the "seniors" would "revolt" on some socsec/medicare reform. Ryan's district--which actually has "seniors"--has been favorable.

170 Damn, I step out for a couple hours and chemjeff gets hired by the Belize Ministry of Tourism.

171 Posted by: The Spoiled Baby Boom Generation that wants to retire on their grandkids pocketbooks at May 11, 2011 03:22 PM (YCzaP)

--The "Me Generation" puts it so succinctly.

172

You can have it.  If I'm going to leave the US to start a new colony, it's not going to be in the frozen wastes of Russia.  Better to move to a tropical island with no critical resources worth stealing so we'd be left alone - we just need some dudes who have the know how to set up a LFTR to power our ice makers, distilleries, and golf carts.

Posted by: Reactionary at May 11, 2011 03:27 PM (xUM1Q)

--Belize would be the mainland equivalent: no resources except jungle and barrier reefs, both of which are amenable to tourism.  As for an island, many are quite freewheeling economically (Turks and Caicos may fit the bill) but may not have room for all of us.

173 If 60% of the budget is entitlements and 40% of that same budget is borrowed, how the hell do they cut even one dime without touching entitlements?

174 "While Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid require structural reforms soon, it is neither necessary - nor politically feasible - to take them on all at once."

That's what the "Conventional Wisdom" was concerning Health Care reform, availability of medical service, and expanded insurance coverage.  Yet, we have ObamaCare.  The Dems may have committed suicide over these, but dammit, we have ObamaCare.

175 Are you interested in Soccer? Right, you really like playing football. Plus, Soccer is just getting to be a worldwide popular sport nowadays. As fans of Soccer, you should get fully prepared at first. For example, you would better prepare a suitable pair of soccer cleats , a set of soccer jerseys or whatever. Otherwise, you will not enjoy an exciting football match. Anyway, it is necessary and essential to prepare for the football match in a good way.(yang)