1

Rick Perry's flat tax is not a true flat tax as we have called for them and it is too high

He calls for a 20% tax but keeps “key deductions” for families who earn less than 500K. This would be a tax increase for me, but he does have an out that allows you to keep the current structure. Without details it is hard to determine if it does fix the 50% who pay nothing problem. But, I suspect that someone who currently pays nothing is NOT going to elect to pay the 20%. The key to that will be whether or not they keep the “tax credit” shit that is on the current 1040.  But alas, none of this matters anyway, it has about as much chance of passing congress as I have of becoming the unfettered King of Siam.

2

Judge issues temporary ban on drug testing in FL for welfare recipients

Someone mentioned this yesterday and on the surface it sounds like more liberal BS (the judge was appointed by Bush). However, when you get down into the details you find that the drug test results may be shared with law enforcement. That is a fatal flaw in the law and the judge is correct in the ban. IOW, I agree with her. FL needs to amend the law to keep the results private and then it will pass muster.

3

Details emerge in Obama's latest bailout/campaign scheme

What is not said here is that the effect of this program is negligible in most of the U.S. The major impact will be in CA, NV, and FL where there are a LOT of homes underwater due to the housing price boom/bust there. 2/3 States are key tossup States for Obama. This IS the 1936 FDR strategy. So folks just because Obama is down in the polls donÂ’t start washing each otherÂ’s junk just yet. So was FDR down but he won in a landslide.

4

On this day in 1415 longbows prevailed at Agincourt.

5

Obamanite scrunt secretary of education calls for school 12 months out of the year

We need to abolish this unconstitutional agency and fire everyone in it. The problem isnÂ’t 9 months of school in a year. The problem is that due to meddling by the government the schools donÂ’t teach shit anymore and disruptive felons are allowed to stay in school.

6

Good Lord, could our current DOJ get any worse?

A proposed revision to Freedom of Information Act rules would allow federal agencies to lie to citizens and reporters seeking certain records, telling them the records donÂ’t exist.

What they are not telling you is that they already do this and they just want to make it legal.

7 And finally

From the "another stupid study" department

Gee “anti-soda ax grinders” find that Boston inner city yoots do a lot of violence and they drink a lot of soda. So coincidence = causation here and nothing else could cause these poor misunderstood yoots to have a violent nature.

And that's it for the news this morning.

8 http://is.gd/tCmXKH

9 This is thread domination, Vic.

10 and Good Morning.

11
Re sidebar McRib Sammich: That be a halal McRib Sammich, or Micky D's is poking a stick in teh Muzzy eye.

12 kumquat is for the weak!

13 Good Morning

14 Good Morning? Some of us haven't gone to bed yet

15 Video of me out earlier today...

16 I want someone to propose doing away with the EITC.  Not paying any taxes because you don't make any real money is one thing, getting a credit back is something else.

17 Re sidebar McRib Sammich: That be a halal McRib Sammich, or Micky D's is poking a stick in teh Muzzy eye.

Posted by: sTevo at October 25, 2011 06:58 AM (VMcEw)

I'm fairly certain there's not an ounce of pork or any other meat to be found in that delicious, reformed, meat-like sandwich.

18 I like the term:  meat product.

19 I am up way early. Last night kicked off Monday night Billiard n Beer.

20 I want someone to propose doing away with the EITC.  Not paying any taxes because you don't make any real money is one thing, getting a credit back is something else.

Posted by: toby928© at October 25, 2011 07:01 AM (GTbGH)

I want them to do away with that entire section of "tax credits". They are all nothing more than Democrat pandering.

21 Morning Joe continuing his crusade against Perry.

22 You know Morning Joe, when commie Mika and partially functional retard Eugene Robinson agree with everything you're saying, you've probably jumped the shark.

23 Jon Heilman makes a joke that Rick Perry chases shiny objects. Retard Eugene Robinson giggles, thinking about shiny things.

I really hate these fucks.

24
AT: Scamalot, based on Monty Pythons Spam.

25

From Instapundit - FBI had evidence that Murtha was running a corruption scheme but did not prosecute

Last weekÂ’s release of FBI documents finally put in writing what nobody had ever said on the record: The FBI suspected that former Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) and lobbyists close to him were running a scheme to funnel earmarks to sham companies and nonprofits to benefit the lawmakerÂ’s friends and former staffers.

He was protected by whitedemocratium which is almost as dense a material as blackdemocratium.

26 Good morning, morons!  Big ole smooches to all from my little patch of heaven just outside the Beltway.

27 Perry is disappointing me greatly.  I railed against what is known about the plan last night so don't feel like doing it again.  Perry's people need to get out in  front of this cause right now it looks like over sold smoke and mirrors.

28 So the DOJ wants to lie to us about FOI documents. Swell. Whatsa matta, guys, is it too damn tiring to misfile those documents under Jovian Weather Patterns or French Tickler Sales, 1800 to present?
 
Suckers of cocks.

29 As with all plans, the devil is in the details. We just don't have enough info right now. But based on what we do have, I am not impressed.

30

Tax hikes are not for "the children" - they are for the unions and the democrat party. Just look.

 

31 Drum showdown at OWS today?

32 I want someone to propose doing away with the EITC.  Not paying any taxes because you don't make any real money is one thing, getting a credit back is something else.
Posted by: toby928
.............
I couldn't agree more.

The worst part of it is that it's welfare by mail.  No welfare workers ever check on these people.  The whole program is just ripe for fraud, and it discourages marriage.  For instance, a woman with 4 kids could be living with the man who is the father.  Her $25k salary qualifies her for EITC, but their real combined income might be $75k or more.. what a freakin' scam.  But it is squarely aimed at the Democrat demographic.

33 Good morning! Thanks for the news, Vic. We few, we happy few...

34 Tax hikes are not for "the children" - they are for the unions and the democrat party.

Yeah, we should all have a McRib sandwich and drink lots of soda.

35 I can't believe Steve Forbes was behind this plan of Perry's.  He was on the radio here yesterday and he seemed fully behind it.  Forbe's plan back in the 90's was about 17% if I recall, which is still too high.

I still say you need a progressive sort of flat tax with at least 3 or 4 brackets.  But no deductions, loopholes or exemptions.

36

I agree that Perry's rate of 20% is too damned high. IIRC, Russia is doing quite well with a 13% rate.

But kudos to Perry for having the audacity to couple this with a balanced budget proposal. A flat tax won't work without it. We could, however, have a balanced budget right now if we had the right people in orifice.

And with that, I'm off to the salt mine once more. Y'all have fun.

37 Fun watching OWS turn into a parody of Animal Farm that the participants probably don't get. Triple Irony Award unless I missed count.

38 Zbriegev Bryziminsky (or whatever) giving Morning Joe audience advice on what we should do in regards to Iran. I'm impressed he can do this with a straight face.

39 Rangers won!!! Oh what a beautiful morning....

40 Has anyone heard the leftist meme that being pro-life = forced childbirth before?

41 Slice my bologna you link licker!

42 Would like to stick around more but got to get going. Later all.

43 I think 20% is a bit daunting. i have not read the details but as a casual observer, (so therefore like the majority of sheeples out there) I am confused about the whole pay your current tax or 20% thing. Dont give people a way out. What if you switch from year to year? On year old way one year new way depending on your income? Sigh....

44

Glen- Yes.

 

45 F1 NJ! New Jersey extends a invitation to Bernie Ecclestone's traveling Eurotrash circus. Rent my townhouse. Ten thousand Euro, Dieter.

46 Our tax code needs to be simplified and reformed. A flat tax is a great start. Everyone should have some skin in the game.

47 #40 heh - by the time you are nine months pregnant you want the damned baby to come out - oh excuse me you want your "blessed event to occur".

48 I want a Hollywood surtax, though. And I really want all hollywood communists forced to open their mansions to the poor. I am not kidding.

49 It would seem that if the libs equate pro-life with 'forced childbirth' then they seem to be admitting that their preferred alternative (abortion) is murder, after all.

50

Tax credit section:

Foreign tax credit

Credit for child and dependent care expenses.

Education credits

Retirement savings contributions credit.

Child tax credit

Residential energy credits.

Other credits (a smorgasbord of Dem wish list shit like electric vehicles)

Get rid of all this shit.

51 Fake, but accurate:
 
The anti-capitalist protest forcing St Paul’s Cathedral to close is a ‘big charade’ with only one in ten tents occupied overnight, the Daily Mail can reveal.

Footage from a thermal imaging camera shot by a police helicopter revealed that the ramshackle camp is almost completely empty during the cold nights.
 
This is a good idea and should be done for the ows peeps when the temperature drops a bit more.

52 51 Fake, but accurate:
 
The anti-capitalist protest forcing St Paul’s Cathedral to close is a ‘big charade’ with only one in ten tents occupied overnight, the Daily Mail can reveal.

Footage from a thermal imaging camera shot by a police helicopter revealed that the ramshackle camp is almost completely empty during the cold nights.
 
This is a good idea and should be done for the ows peeps when the temperature drops a bit more.

Posted by: GnuBreed at October 25, 2011 07:43 AM (ENKCw)

===

Maybe they're all off to actually work a job or at least follow through on a drug deal.

For the movement, you know?

53

Hey Rick Perry,

If ten percent is good enough for God why is it not good enough for Gov?

 

The problem with all the proposals is that they start from the idea that they have to raise the money to cover the current expenditures. F that. Gov. needs to be put on a budget and the only way to do that is to cut their allowance.

54 The left love partial birth abortion. They want to kill the baby at 8 or 9 months and then hand the doctor bill to the tax payer.

55 I guess Rick Perry is saying "if you like your current tax rate, you can keep your current tax rate...."

Don't see that this is any better or worse than Cain's plan. Both are miles ahead of the Mutt Romney "plan," which seems to be to do nothing 'til it's time to reach across the aisle and put something together with his Democrat friends.

I'd prefer that someone put a plan out there that is not "transitional." Pick a plan and rate(s) and just go for it.

56 Cold nights in London? High 40s low 50s is too cold to sleep in a tent? What a bunch of pussies.

57

It would seem that if the libs equate pro-life with 'forced childbirth' then they seem to be admitting that their preferred alternative (abortion) is murder, after all.

Clearly, you are a misogynist.

58 It's amazing the lengths the left will go to prove their faulty "I am empowered womyn so, I can do whatever I want!" philosophy. Even to the point of resorting to something as ghoulish as partial birth abortion.

59 Any flat tax plan that is higher than 15% is too high. And it should be truly flat. No deductions and no exceptions. Also tied to it should be a limit of federal spending to no more than the amount of money collected the previous year.

60

Clearly, you are a misogynist.

Posted by: kdny not a yankee calls warren bonehead the dumbest troll on the interwebs at October 25, 2011 07:48 AM (SrCor)

====

Indeed and a cock-man oppressor, or so I have been called. Although I think that particular 'womyn' stole that line from, "PCU" (1994).

61 So, Obama is going to take on all the underwater home loans through Freddie and Fannie.  But, only loans that are current in their payments.

So, what does that leave the banks?  You guessed it.. all the loans that are defaulting!  Or, the few loans not underwater or nearly paid off.

Nice.. the commie takeover of our financial system continues unabated!

62 Why this obsession with those who pay no income tax?

If they have a job, they pay the payroll taxes.

When they spend what money they have, they pay sales tax. (most states and some local govs have a sales tax.) Some also pay property taxes and the fees that are imposed by the States and Local govs.

So what you're saying is that even though they don't make enough money over and above their cost of living, they should still pay some amount of taxes just to fulfill your desire for them to pay "their fair share". Hmm where have we heard that before?

Perry DOES have the right idea in that the standard deduction is raised to a level commensurate with the cost of one maintaining a minimum standard of living.

BTW the income tax was originally devised as a tax on NET income just like what is imposed on Companies. Net meaning the income left after ONE'S EXPENSES FOR OPERATING are deducted.

It was not meant as a general tax on ALL income. As it is, we pay federal income taxes on taxes we are required to pay elsewhere.

So explain to me:
1. How it's helpful to tax those who can least afford it?
2. How much revenue would be captured by taxing them?
3. How many of these people's income is derived from assistance by the state or federal govs? (Which means we would be taxing the money taken by taxes and thus reducing those we have determined need that assistance.)

Now if you want to talk about those who have greater than 6 figure incomes yet pay little or no taxes, then that's a different story. (somewhat, as I believe that anyone who legally avoids paying a tax that they are not required to should not be singled out for a punitive tax rate just to be "fair" or make them "have skin in the game". That's just as bad as the liberal's "progressive" tax code. worse actually because a seeming conservative has proposed it.)

63 38 Zbriegev Bryziminsky (or whatever) giving Morning Joe audience advice on what we should do in regards to Iran. I'm impressed he can do this with a straight face.

Posted by: mugiwara at October 25, 2011 07:36 AM (KI/Ch)

I'm surprised Joe Scarborough doesn't bang Mika like a giant gong.  I wonder if his wife ever wonders about that?

 

64

@62: One of the potential pratfalls of democracy is the unwashed masses voting themselves bennies with other people's money.

That's why.

65 Judge issues temporary ban on drug testing in FL for welfare recipients. Good Morning r&r's. I don't see a problem with a positive drug test being reported to the police because these programs are voluntary. If you want to continue the useless charade that is the "war on drugs," this is another tool.

66 Mika is awesome when she STFU.

67 Also please note that a 15% flat tax would be a tax increase for most people unless they also did away with the withholding tax.

According to the census bureau the median income for the US in 2009 was about $50K. A family of 2 in that category would pay slightly less than 8% in income tax. A family of 4 would pay virtually nothing.

How many of these people would elect to pay 20%? Can you say ZERO.

68

Quite honestly, instead of trying to think of his own exotic approach to rewriting the tax code (I think the idea you simplify things by giving people a choice of either a flat tax-that-is-not-really-flat or the old system is even more convoluted than the old system, because everyone will then have to still figure their taxes each year the old way and now also the NEW way just to figure out which one is cheaper for them), Perry would have been better served by:

 

1) Simply lower the current rates, and

2) Talk about what he intends to do to cut SPENDING.

69 So if the Super Committee fails as expected, there should be a flood of lobbyist cash to howl for Congress to restore their particular piece of the cut pie.
 
They only have a couple more months to go to git-r-dun. Strangely, there is almost no news about this. So automatic 10% cuts will come in the Dec/Jan timeframe.
 
Maybe the stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure can just wave his magic wand and cancel the cuts. After all, there aren't any apparent limits to his power any more.

70 Why this obsession with those who pay no income tax?

Because they vote to spend, spend, spend.  They have no teeth in the game.  When half the country doesn't pay in but decides what happens with the money, you have a problem.

1. How it's helpful to tax those who can least afford it?

Because then they may think twice before they vote for stupid shit.

2. How much revenue would be captured by taxing them?

I think it would cut spending drastically.  That's better than raising revenue.

3. How many of these people's income is derived from assistance by the state or federal govs?

Too much.

71 How many of these people would elect to pay 20%? Can you say ZERO.

Posted by: Vic at October 25, 2011 07:58 AM (YdQQY)

 

But... but... what about Warren Buffets executive assistant, err, "secretary"?

72 Posted by: Valar Morghulis
..........
Some good points there..  The poor - and very often those "poor" are retirees on fixed income - pay all sorts of taxes.  Here in Illinois, in some counties, they pay 11% in sales taxes alone!  People  who use most of their disposable income for necessities are hurt worst.

As you say, the working lower income earners already pay payroll taxes... (why is that not considered an "income tax"?) and property taxes (even if they rent it is built in), and many other local taxes and fees.

I'm ok with a few tax brackets, the lowest one being zero percent.

73 66 Mika is awesome when she STFU.

Posted by: Glenn Frey at October 25, 2011 07:58 AM (B0LGd)

 

I'd love to see one episode of Morning Joe featuring Mika's butt facing the camera.

74 First, its 47%. Second, its 47% who pay no income tax....but still pay other taxes (payroll, etc. etc.).

I have seen newspaper articles that put it at 47%, 50%, and 51%. I just used the standard middle number of 50%.

75 Oh, and I'm all for simplification of the tax code, take out the eitc stuff and other deductions and credits.

It's interesting that currently Russia is a more capitalist country than  the US.

And before we do anything about the tax code or adding taxes:

LET'S REDUCE SPENDING!!

I would make that a requirement before any tax code fiddling around.

Why, Why is it than when revenues don't meet expenditures (or even only come close) is the Democrats reaction "we have to raise taxes"?

NO TAX HAS EVER BEEN RESCINDED. NO GOV PROGRAM HAS EVER BEEN RETIRED.

The freaking ICC is still around for god's sakes and that's been superfluous for years! We still pay an excise tax on telephone service that was enacted to help pay for civil war veterans!

76 I'd love to see one episode of Morning Joe featuring Mika's butt facing the camera. Posted by: CoolCzech at October 25, 2011 08:04 AM Ratings get any lower and you just might.

77

I'd love to see one episode of Morning Joe featuring Mika's butt facing the camera.

Posted by: CoolCzech at October 25, 2011 08:04 AM (Iaxlk)

===

It wold be more endearing that her liberal pie hole.

Holy accidental double entendre, Batman!

78 Maybe the stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure can just wave his magic wand and cancel the cuts. After all, there aren't any apparent limits to his power any more.

He won't have to.  Congress will just pass a new budget measure that pushes this away again.  The sticking point will be before or after the election.

79 When it gets down to the wire the "budget committee" will compromise and cut the rate of increase in spending by a few million and raise taxes for the rest. Count on it. We have two RINOs who will cross over and vote with the commies.

80 '
70
How do you know this?

How do you know who or what they vote for?

Because the percentages match?

Your answers are too glib to be serious.

There's also NO way you can say that spending would go down if we taxed those making low income.

Those bastards keep raising taxes and inventing new programs REGARDLESS of what the people want.

The problem is NOT low income wage earners paying no/low taxes. It's people electing Democrats and Rinos who keep voting to spend more money we don't have without being penalized for it by those voters. ALL VOTERS!

81 Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at October 25, 2011 08:02 AM (OWjjx)

47% of the people don't pay income taxes, yet have a say in where revenues raised from income taxes are spent. There's the basis of your spending problem.

And let's not pretend the income tax isn't the Lion's share of our revenue.

82

However, I am in favor of eliminating the refundable credit eliminate of the tax code, which is nothing more than wealth redistribution.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at October 25, 2011 08:02 AM (OWjjx)

 

Well, actually that touches on something Nixon called the "Negative Income Tax."

 

The idea was, you eliminate ALL of the welfare bureaucracies, the whole kitten-kaboodle at the federal and state levels, and have the IRS in effect guarantee a minimum income: you set Minimum Family Income for Three, let's say, at $40,000.

If a family makes only $30,000 that year, they file their return and get a $10,000 check from the IRS.

The idea is, phenomenal administrative savings.  It never went anywhere because it was just too obviously "income redistribution," but when you come to think of it: isn't that what ALL forms of welfare are?

83 This IS the 1936 FDR strategy. So folks just because Obama is down in the polls donÂ’t start washing each otherÂ’s junk just yet. So was FDR down but he won in a landslide.

Posted by: Vic at October 25, 2011 06:50 AM (YdQQY)

Vic, as I understand it this would allow people that are current on their loan to refinance at a lower rate. This does not reduce their balance owed so how does this really help? They have a slightly lower payment on a house that is still under water. The people that are still current on their loans at this late date probably have a fairly low rate already. What am I missing?

84

Things To Talk About This Morning:

Obama Job Approval: 44%* (It's been this way the last week, no Gadaffi kill bump like the more and more irrelevant Drudge claimed)

Obama VS Cain: Obama +8*

Obama VS Romney: Obama +2*

Obama VS Perry: Obama +11* (Gets 50% Against Perry)

Obama VS Generic Republican: GOP +2*

Electoral Map: Obama 201 GOP 191 Tossup 146*

* Real Clear Politics Average

Texas Rangers (Favorite, #2 AL Seed, 96-66) Lead 3-2 Against The St Louis Cardinals (Underdog, NL Wildcard, 90-72) W/ Games 6 & 7 In St Louis Tomm. & Thursday

NBC Ratings Decline But Shows Like "The Office", "Whitney", "Up All Night", & Law & Order Doing Okay But Bad Compared To Some Others, NBC Plans To Beef Up With More News

Go Bolts Tonight In Buffalo!

 

85 Velvet Ambition at October 25, 2011 08:12 AM I agree, there is something else going on and we are not privy to the fine print.

86 This does not reduce their balance owed so how does this really help?

As I said, for most people it doesn't. However, in CA, NV, and FL where there has been a radical drop in home prices a lot of people are severely underwater. It allows them to refinance to a lower rate and presumably lower monthly payments. It does this by removing the ceiling on maximum loanable money vs home value. (now the limit is 125% of home value)

Basically it is a bribe for  people in those three States, two of which are swing States.

87 How do you know this?

How do you know who or what they vote for?

They shouldn't have a say no matter *who* they vote for.  They're freeloaders.


There's also NO way you can say that spending would go down if we taxed those making low income.

Sure it would.  Anybody will vote for free stuff.  Fewer people will vote for things they have to pay for.

I'm not going to shed tears for the poor.  I'm tapped out.  I gave at the office.  I'm sick of all these assholes getting a free ride then showing up when it's time to discuss where the money is spent.

And this ain't Charles Dickens.  America has the fattest poor people in history, with iPhones, XBoxes, and flat screen TVs.

The problem is NOT low income wage earners paying no/low taxes.

Yes, it is.  At the most basic level, the problem is that the successful people in the country are the ones forced to pay for everything, and then everybody else shows up to piss the money away.

88

Posted by: Vic at October 25, 2011 06:50 AM (YdQQY)

as i've mentioned before 1936 & 2012 are different worlds. the GOP was down in the dumps and almost dead w/ no power at all in 1936. They did not oppose FDR's plans but went along w/ them and their nominee was a "me too" Republican. We may have the "me too Republican" problem in Mitt if he's the nominee but the GOP has the house, looks good in Senate matchups, and on the rise.

The whole world was dipping it's toes in socialism at that time. Today the whole world has been mostly, not all the time as Argentina proved, been electing center-right parties. Even Portugal just ousted socialists.

The unions were MUCH more powerful in 1936 compared to today. Back then folks were flocking to be registered Dems, today folks are flocking to be registered indepedents (myth or not) and the GOP is gaining registrations on the Dems for the first time in a long time.

HOWEVER never countout the incumbent's chances. Both Reagan & Clinton looked bad for re-election at this point in their presidencies w/ approvals in the mid to high 40s*.

*to be fair though their popularity was on the way back up, Obama just keeps going down and hitting new lows

89

The problem is NOT low income wage earners paying no/low taxes.

Why do you think that, until the 20th century - that set the stage for the current debacle - people weren't allowed to vote if they weren't tax-paying property owners?

It's simple common sense.  And you can judge for yourself what happened when we abandoned common sense in favor of universal voting.

 

90

please tell i'm not the only one who loves the McRib, I get so much heat from friends and family for loving it

91 @92: I loves me McRibbies too... why are they busting your chops over it??

92 I love 'em, too. My lipid profile, not so much.

All the same, I'm gonna have to indulge.

93

I'm not going to shed tears for the poor.  I'm tapped out.  I gave at the office.  I'm sick of all these assholes getting a free ride then showing up when it's time to discuss where the money is spent.

And this ain't Charles Dickens.  America has the fattest poor people in history, with iPhones, XBoxes, and flat screen TVs.

+1, my self loathing conservative brother goes off at me about how I hate the poor. really? I was unemployed for years and basically living out of a suitcase. You kn ow what I did? I went to a trade school and got a job I love making enough to get my own place. Meanwhile he's still a freeloader off his wife

94

Oh oh... a brilliant marketing concept involving Mika's glorious butt and McRib barbecue sauce just flashed through my overheated moronic brain...

 

95 McRib....meh.

96 as i've mentioned before 1936 & 2012 are different worlds

And as I have mentioned, the more history changes, the more it remains the same. Obama is playing the FDR playbook right down to the wire and the press, as usual is going right along with it.

Look for this kind of shit to actually increase the closer we get to Nov 2012. The combination of urban Democrat machine politics and federal largess to swing States put FDR in to a massive victory when he had been down in the polls bad.

97

Posted by: CoolCzech at October 25, 2011 08:27 AM (Iaxlk)

they seem to hate the taste, they say it's crappy lunch cafeteria food at a high price

98 99 - Well, it's not gourmet food but it's a nice treat for your inner junk food demon.

99

And this ain't Charles Dickens.  America has the fattest poor people in history, with iPhones, XBoxes, and flat screen TVs.

 

Exactly, thank you very much!  I am SO sick of hearing that Americans haven't gotten any richer in the last 40 years.  What a liberal load of utter bunks.  And let's not forget that back in 1975, liberals were telling us we were much better off in 1950!

Our houses are huge compared to Levitown, we all routinely travel on jets nowadays, we drive cars that all feature "luxury" items like power windows without thinking twice about it, our kids walk around in $200 sneakers and use smartphones with Net connections... But we are Forever Poorer, according to Liberals.  WHAT a load of BS.

100 @Vic,

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Roosevelt was far behind. Wasn't that Gallup's first presidential race, and didn't he predict that FDR would win?

101 If Liberals are really serious about solving the problem of too many overweight poor people, the solution seems simple enough.  Eliminate food stamps.

102

States put FDR in to a massive victory when he had been down in the polls bad.

FDR's poll numbers in 1936 that made some noise of a possible close loss were based on polls that were done by mailing to a largely Republican magazine readership. After Maine (which voted before everyone) went to the GOP that year the Republicans started the mantra "as Maine goes, so does the country." FDR won all the rest of the states except for, ironically, GOP stronghold at the time Vermont. The Dems were out saying "as Maine goes, so does Vermont." Polling was an early new science back then.

and again the unions don't matter in 2012. those mythical indepedents as you call them will and of course GOP turnout.

103

How about "Looks like Tarzan, Plays like Jane"   http://ow.ly/782AW

Why Dem Senator Mark Warner may be one and done ...

 

104 Posted by: CoolCzech at October 25, 2011 08:32 AM (Iaxlk)

And the cost of these consumer products is rapidly declining.

How much did a crappy 13 inch color TV cost in 1972 (the first one my family bought)?

About $300.

105 @ 89.  I'm not poor yet I have no iphone, xbox, or flat-screen tv.  I pay fed. taxes every year along with state, sales, and property.  If I didn't have to pay all these damn taxes maybe I could afford something new.  It seems like rich or poor, everybody is doing better than me.  It's the people in the middle that are getting f*cked.

106

1. Anybody have CAC's email address?  Somehow, I lost it.

2. What is the real, official name of Romneycare please?

107 Wasn't that Gallup's first presidential race, and didn't he predict that FDR would win?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJconservative) at October 25, 2011 08:34 AM (UYLrj)

in 1936, in the last month of the campaign, there was talk that FDR would lose in a close one after a GOP magazine claimed polling found folks leaving FDR for their guy. They based this on GOP readership feedback. Polling was an early science then and mistakes were abound at the time. 1948 being a great example of this. I have the whole story in comment 106

108

2. What is the real, official name of Romneycare please?

where's that website link so I can cut and paste a reply? I swear i'm just an objective guy who doesn't badmouth other candidates

109

Glenn Beck's favorite post is up!

DOOM

110 I'm not sure where you got the idea that Roosevelt was far behind. Wasn't that Gallup's first presidential race, and didn't he predict that FDR would win?

That was in one of the books someone recommended on the Sunday Book thread; New Deal or Raw Deal.

111 And, let's continue the controversy this morning and distract from our newly released tax plan. 

112

Around 2006 there was almost no one who could not be approved for a mortgage through some FNMA/FHLMC loan program.  Actual full appraisals were seldom required, and even the worst credit risks could borrow 100% of the sales price, if not more (to include closing costs).  After the crash, FNMA/FHLMC changed their underwriting guidelines and even people with credit scores in the 800's and Loan to Values under 70% had trouble being approved because of the fact that now almost every loan required a full appraisal, often a review appraisal and really strict requirements for any new or existing secondary financing.  PMI is a nightmare to get approved for loans over 80% LTV.  Disclosure laws changed so much that it is almost impossible to be in compliance.  At the same time, they started combing their existing portfolio for any excuse to make the lender buy back mortgages, which scares the poop out of lenders and makes them even more strict than the FNMA/FHLMC guidelines require. 

Now in this lending atmosphere, Obama wants to refinance the crap loans that should never have been approved in the first place, using much stricter credit and property standards than they were originally approved at, and hardly anybody qualifies.  That is why it didn't work the first time they tried it and why it won't work now.

113 NO TAX HAS EVER BEEN RESCINDED. NO GOV PROGRAM HAS EVER BEEN RETIRED. Telephone Excise Tax Works Progress Administration Civilian Conservation Corps. Fucking Shinebox- go get it.

114 Fabulous!

115
  Correct me if I'm in error, but didn't Perry acknowledge that tax cuts would be fruitless unless accompanied by spending cuts?  That's another plus for him, to begin to address the second half oft the problem, imho.

116 Uh....no. Sorry Bevel, the basis of your spending problem is you are spending too much.

Cause, meet effect, Mallamutt.  When half the people in the country (sorry, 47%) are exempt from the largest source of revenue, they are going to be more apt to spend money.

Your budget would actually be balanced if you eliminated social security, medicare and medicaid.

And 47% of the people who decide whether or not those programs get eliminated don't pay income taxes.  And let's not pretend the two things aren't related.

117 Exactly. For all the gnashing of teeth around here about 49% or 50% or 52% of Americans who pay no income tax, no one would care if we weren't spending 1.4 trillion more than we were taking in

And nobody would care about spending if the economy were good.  It's still a serious problem.

So long as you have a large portion of the country not paying for shit but being allowed to vote on spending, you are going to have a deficit.  Everybody needs to have skin in the game.

118 Let's just keep Obama, ok? 4 more years !!! Keep him on court, under oath, under investigation, and at the golf course. Let the golf channel do a 4 year show with him , kinda like Rush's, but of epic 4 year proportion. Were gonna end up with Obama white anyway. Romney

119 But those 47% pay payroll taxes which is Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid......which is killing your budget. Thus, under your analysis, we would be screaming for entitlement reform yet, we are not.

Come on.  They are net consumers of those programs by a wide margin, subsidized by the higher income brackets.  They pay pennies on the dollar for what they are returned, because the costs of running the government are being shouldered by the rest of us.

120 Your analysis just ignores the fact that these 47% are paying on payroll taxes at a rate of 5.35% (for this year --- it returns to 7.35% next year), the various sales tax, gasoline tax, fees, permits, etc. etc. And that 47% is not just the lower end 47% but also includes a fair number of higher end earners (note: GE paid no corporate income tax last year).

And they buy stamps too.  Big fucking deal.  *I* do all that shit too, but *they* are exempted from paying a tax I have to.  Should I be fucking dancing for them?


And running a campaign on "raise taxes on the poor" is not going to win you an election anywhere except as favorite AOSHQ commentor.

We're not talking about raising taxes.  We're talking about eliminating a bullshit exemption based on arbitrary determination of wealth.  That we let it get to this point is horrifying.

Nor have you advanced a valid argument on why it makes economic sense to raise taxes in a recession

Raising taxes on the poor is recovering government funds spent on them.  It does the same thing as lowering their 'bennies'.


Couple that with a gradual reduction of welfare benefits, entitlement reform and a Balanced Budget Amendment and you are probably on your way back.

The Balanced Budget Amendment is a joke.  Unless it sprouts arms and legs and can eat congressmen, nobody's going to enforce it, especially when the Commerce Clause allows Congress to do anything (just ask the Supreme Court).

As for Entitlement reform, I'd love it, but it's about as realistic to hope for as a Flat Tax.

121 On  a pure percengtage basis, the middle and lower classes actually shoulder more of a payroll tax burden then high end earners.

Mallamutt, it all goes in the same pot ultimately.

122 Why do blue states get to deduct state income taxes? Doesn't this put more burden on the rest of us? I think this deduction should be stopped in the interest of 'fairness.'

123 I would start with a "paperwork fee" for EITC.  Deduct it from their checks before they get it.  Make it a flat,  basic fee to cover bureaucrats, postage, and such.

Even if it is only $10, at least they would know that getting their free money costs something.

You don't get a free drivers license,  and there is a filing fee in every courthouse for recording deeds and mortgages.  This is simply common sense.

Make them realize that the money just doesn't materialize.

It would be a good first step.

124 Then why not raise taxes on the rich and middle class to recover benefits spent on them.

Because those people are paying taxes currently.  We are talking about people who don't pay income taxes.  The slippery slope is letting people who don't pay taxes decide where money is spent.

Under your theory, during a recession we shouldn't go after people who practice tax evasion.

As P.J. O;Rourke said, giving money and power to the goverment is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. Doesn't matter if you are giving the teenage boys Johnny Walker Blue Label and the keys to the BMW or Seagram's 7 and keys to a Yugo.

And yet none of us want anarchy, so we recognize that some money and power needs to reside in the government.  The question is, who pays for it.

As an unnamed philosopher said, a Democracy will only last until people realize they can vote themselves largesse from the treasury.  Which is actually what is happening right now.

125 It's a simple mathematical exercise which can predict your favorite movie. It must have been created by a real genius.

Don't know how it works,but it works every time!

Be honest and don't look at the movie list below till you have done the math...

Try this test and discover a simple series of mathematical manipulations can "know" which movie in the list is your favorite.

It really works!


Movie Quiz:

1. Pick a number from 1-9.

2. Multiply by 3.

3. Add 3.

4. Multiply by 3 again.

5. Now add the two digits of your answer together to find your predicted favorite movie in the list of 18 movies below:









Movie List:

1. The Usual Suspects
2. True Romance
3. Blazing Saddles
4. The Big Lebowski
5. Dr. Strangelove
6. The Outlae Josey Wales
7. Man on Fire
8. The Boondock Saints
9. The Obama Farewell Speech of 2012
10. Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
11. The professional
12. Mars Attacks
13. Blade Runner
14. Easy Rider
15. Training Day
16. Apocalypse Now
17. Pulp Fiction
18. Blue Velvet

Now, isn't that amazing ?????

126 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

127 dead thread,  related to the "lost" billions of tax US dollars sent to Iraq, something seemingly innocuous to the tragedy of America's foreign affairs. Headline @ Drudge, the final dis-assembly of the 1962 Nuclear B-53 bomb in Amarillo, as if erasing the cold war era. Grotesque...

Nuclear Weapon Database: United States Arsenal
Compiled by Ted Flaherty
19 November 1996
updated 2 January 1997

B53 Gravity Bomb
        Year Deployed: 1962
        Dimensions: 3.76 meters length, 1.27 meters diameter, 1.8 meters tailspan
        Weight: (8,850 lbs) kilograms
        Circular Error Probable: Unknown, perhaps between 100-200 meters
        Locations: B-2
        Number Deployed: 50 bombs
        Yield: 9 megatons

The B53 was designed as a high yield bomb to be carried internally by the B-52s. 340 of these bombs, with large (9 megaton) yields by American standards, were built. However, although it was slated to be replaced by the B83, its retirement was curtailed in 1987, probably to retain a high yield weapon to destroy very hardened underground targets.(43) The U.S. will likely retain 50 B53 bombs under START II. (44)

The B53 does not have the safety and security features of the newer B61 and B83 bombs. Its fuzing is also more primitive, and must be accomplished on the ground by maintenance personnel. The B53's 9 megaton warhead (similar to that used in the retired Titan II ICBM) is a survivor of the early days of nuclear weapons when yields were very large.

footnotes:

43 "B53 Nuclear Bomb," Jane's Strategic Weapon Systems.

44 Arkin and Norris, "Nuclear Notebook" Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists (July/August 1996), p. 63.

45 CEP is mentioned as "highest accuracy under 600 feet" in Thomas Cochran, William Arkin, Milton Hoenig, Nuclear Weapons Databook Volume 1: U.S. Nuclear Capabilities (Ballinger Publishing Company - Natural Resources Defense Council, 1984), p. 66. Mod 10 tactical version with converted-Pershing II warheads have "accuracy in the neighborhood of less than 100 feet" William Arkin, "The Last Word: Nuking Libya" Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists (July/August 1996), p. 64.
_______________________________________

Yes, the ol' US Military plan to obliterate Libya looked worthy of review given this week's horror show. We're to be pleased with America for not nuking Libya. Except that we did nuke Libya.

On Friday 20 May 2011, NATO struck a facility near the capital Friday and a command and control hub near Sebha, a Gadhafi stronghold deep in LibyaÂ’s southwestern desert, a NATO statement said in Brussels. The NATO forces/ & the USA alligned to use a BUNKER-BUSTER NUKE, 200 miles s-west of Tripoli, where they believed that Moammar Gadhafi and some members of the congressional committees (with their families) were believed to be hiding out since the intensified bombings of Tripoli by NATO.

An exhaustive exposition was published in several online journals by Michel Chossudovsky, "US Pentagon planning to nuke Libya, even as world is irradiated by Japanese fallout."
Global Research
Thu, 07 Apr 2011
___

But in my opinion, the real problem? The root. It was not Gaddafi who ordered or funded terrorist acts of war against the West or America.

It was those whom Gaddafi deposed from power, the Brotherhood tribes of NE Libyan jihad, those who claimed credit for terrorist acts against the US. [This militant branch of Sunni Islam is based from the same Brotherhood that the British endorsed against civilization in order to conquer the Ottomans during WWI, promoting barbarism of the Bedouins by instigating the so-called House of Saud internationally recognized via the British anointing, creating Saudi Arabia, the Muslim Brotherhood and Wahhabi Jihadists to perform the downfall of all Muslim nations under Saudi rule. And it isn't as if the Saudis are "friendly" to the West. They use the West for their own benefit, but are most certainly not Western friendly.]

These anti-Gaddafi Libyan terrorists are the very same al-Qaeda suicide bomber volunteers whom West Point reported fighting/killing our forces in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq; the same who oppose the West yet the West insanely supports, the most cruel of all Islamic-jihadists requiring forfeiture of thought and logic and good will of their own populations, empowering the strictest of all mean spirited interpretations of the Koran, racists committing the most heinous crimes against humanity and civilization, torturous sodomy and genocide, and with the US performing a bloodbath against Gaddafi under white flag of truce as he'd arranged for terms during Hillary's Libyan visit. She came, she saw, she killed. (Not the first time she got blood on her hands.)

A closer likelihood of a single figure to cast blame for Libyan jihad would be Jalil & Co., hypocritical finger pointing assassin, former Justice Minister, Mr. "I have proof" but doesn't produce any substantiation of his blaming Gaddafi, the usurper who abandoned Libya's government in order to make it his own, Jalil now leading Iraq from the bulwark of his own tribal region of Northeast Libya, the world's capital of suicide bomber Jihadis fighting US forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, promoting the genocide of blacks in Libya.

There's more than anyone wants to know. Only a portion follows below, from last May 2011. And yes, filter the rhetoric but read the numbers, places and names. American memory needs awakening.
___________________________________


The recycling of Bin LadenÂ’s men:
Once NATO enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan, now NATO allies in Libya
5/23/2011

Drawing on the West Point Military Academy’s analysis of records seized in the Islamic Emirate of Iraq, U.S. historian and journalist Webster G. Tarpley demonstrates that the Libyan National Transitional Council is largely made up of elements affiliated with Al-Qaeda. In the context of a vast reorganization of its secret operations, the United States is enlisting in Libya – and in Syria – the jihadists that it is tracking down in Iraq and Afghanistan. “Bin Laden is dead! Long live the Bin Ladenists”, cynics in Washington could well be proclaiming.

The current military attack on Libya has been motivated by UN Security Council resolution 1973 with the need to protect civilians. Statements by President Obama, British Prime Minister Cameron, French President Sarkozy, and other leaders have stressed the humanitarian nature of the intervention, which is said to aim at preventing a massacre of pro-democracy forces and human rights advocates by the Qaddafi regime.

But at the same time, many commentators have voiced anxiety because of the mystery which surrounds the anti-Qaddafi transitional government which emerged at the beginning of March in the city of Benghazi, located in the Cyrenaica district of north-eastern Libya.

Darnah, northeast Libya: World Capital of Jihadis
Almost one fifth of the foreign fighters entering Iraq across the Syrian border came from Libya, a country of just over 6 million people. A higher proportion of Libyans were interested in fighting in Iraq than any other country contributing mujahedin. Felter and Fishman point out: “Almost 19 percent of the fighters in the Sinjar Records came from Libya alone. Furthermore, Libya contributed far more fighters per capita than any other nationality in the Sinjar Records, including Saudi Arabia.” But since the Al Qaeda personnel files contain the residence or hometown of the foreign fighters in question, we can determine that the desire to travel to Iraq to kill Americans was not evenly distributed across Libya, but was highly concentrated precisely in those areas around Benghazi which are today the epicenters of the revolt against Colonel Gaddafi which the US, Britain, France, and others are so eagerly supporting. The eastern Libyan city of Darnah sent more fighters to Iraq than any other single city or town, according to the West Point report. It noted that 52 militants came to Iraq from Darnah, a city of just 80,000 people (the second-largest source of fighters was Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, which has a population of more than 4 million). Benghazi, the capital of LibyaÂ’s provisional government declared by the anti-Qaddafi rebels, sent in 21 fighters, again a disproportionate number of the whole.”  Obscure Darnah edged out metropolitan Riyadh by 52 fighters to 51. QaddafiÂ’s stronghold of Tripoli, by contrast, barely shows up in the statistics at all. What explains this extraordinary concentration of anti-American fighters in Benghazi and Darnah? The answer seems related to extremist schools of theology and politics which flourished in these areas. As the West Point report notes: “Both Darnah and Benghazi have long been associated with Islamic militancy in Libya.” These areas are in theological and tribal conflict with the central government of Colonel Gaddafi, in addition to being politically opposed to him.

Northeastern Libya: Highest Density of Suicide Bombers
As the West Point study states, “Of the 112 Libyans in the Records, 54.4% (61) listed their ‘work.Â’ Fully 85.2% (51) of these Libyan fighters listed “suicide bomber” as their work in Iraq.”  “Libyan fighters were much more likely than other nationalities to be listed as suicide bombers (85% for Libyans, 56% for all others).”

The anti-Qaddafi Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) Merges with al Qaeda, 2007

Al Qaeda from Demon to US ally in Libya

For those who attempt to follow the ins and outs of the CIAÂ’s management of its various patsy organizations inside the realm of presumed Islamic terrorism, it may be useful to trace the transformation of the LIFG-AQIM from deadly enemy to close ally. This phenomenon is closely linked to the general reversal of the ideological fronts of US imperialism that marks the divide between the Bush-Cheney-neocon administrations and the current Obama-Brzezinski-International Crisis Group regime. The Bush approach was to use the alleged presence of Al Qaeda as a reason for direct military attack. The Obama method is to use Al Qaeda to overthrow independent governments, and then either Balkanize and partition the countries in question, or else use them as kamikaze puppets against larger enemies like Russia, China, or Iran. This approach implies a more or less open fraternization with terrorist groups, which was signaled in a general way in Obamas famous Cairo speech of 2009. The links of the Obama campaign to the terrorist organizations deployed by the CIA against Russia were already a matter of public record three years ago.

But such a reversal of field cannot be improvised overnight; it took several years of preparation. On July 10, 2009, The London Daily Telegraph reported that the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group had split with Al Qaeda. This was when the United States had decided to de-emphasize the Iraq war, and also to prepare to use the Sunni Moslem Brotherhood and its Sunni Al Qaeda offshoot for the destabilization of the leading Arab states preparatory to turning them against Shiite Iran.

Northeast Libyan Jihadis Killing US, NATO Forces in Afghanistan Right Now

One of the fatal contradictions in the current State Department and CIA policy is that it aims at a cordial alliance with Al Qaeda killers in northeast Libya, at the very moment when the United States and NATO are mercilessly bombing the civilian northwest Pakistan in the name of a total war against Al Qaeda, and US and NATO forces are being killed by Al Qaeda guerrillas in that same Afghanistan-Pakistan theater of war. The force of this glaring contradiction causes the entire edifice of US war propaganda to collapse. The US has long since lost any basis in morality for military force. In fact, terrorist fighters from northeast Libya may be killing US and NATO troops in Afghanistan right now, even as the US and NATO protect their home base from the Qaddafi government. 

The Scenario Uncovered by the 1995 Shayler Affair is Operative Today

In 1995, David Shayler, an official of the British counterintelligence organization MI-5, became aware that his counterpart at the British foreign espionage organization MI-6 had paid the sum of £100,000 to an Al Qaeda affiliate in exchange for the attempt to assassinate Qaddafi. The assassination attempt did occur, and killed several innocent bystanders, but failed to eliminate the Libyan ruler.

Timed to coincide with the attempt to assassinate Qaddafi, MI-6 and other Western secret intelligence agencies fomented a considerable insurrection in northeast Libya, almost precisely in the same areas which are in rebellion today. Its insurrection was successfully crushed by QaddafiÂ’s forces by the end of 1996. The events of 2011 are simply a reprise of the imperialist attack on Libya 15 years ago, with the addition of outside intervention..

The War Against the Nation State

TodayÂ’s attack on Libya comes in the context of a broad attack on the institution of the sovereign nation state itself, as it has existed since the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648.

The United States and the British are deeply concerned by the large number of nations which are seeking to escape from Anglo-American hegemony by actively pursuing large-scale cooperation with Russia on security, with China on economic questions, and with Iran for geopolitical considerations. The CIA/MI-6 response has been a wild orgy of destabilizations, people power coups, color revolutions, and palace putsches, signaled by the document dumps by the CIA limited hangout operation known as Wikileaks, which has targeted names of the CIA hit mist from Ben Ali to Qaddafi. The Obama strategy would have preferred an exclusive reliance and the illusion that the Arab Spring was really a matter of youthful visionary idealists gathering in the public square to praise democracy, the rule of law, and human rights. This was never the reality: the actual decisions were being made by brutal cliques of generals and top officials bribed or blackmailed by the CIA who were moving behind the scenes to oust such figures as Ben Ali or Mubarak. Whatever else Qaddafi has done, he has undoubtedly forced the CIA and NATO to drop the pleasant mask of youthful idealism and human rights, revealing a hideous visage of Predator drones, terror bombing, widespread slaughter, and colonialist arrogance underneath. Qaddafi has also ripped the mask of “Yes We Can” off Obama, revealing a cynical warmonger intent on the continuation of Bush’s infamous “Dead or Alive” and “Bring it on” policies, although by other means.

128
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129
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