1

Good Morning Morons its Dec 21^st/ On this day in 1620 the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. This wasnÂ’t their original destination but they stopped there because they were out of beer and needed to look for a 7-11.  Unfortunately they were 300 years too early.  And besides they didnÂ’t have a picture ID.

2

Well the first of the primary candidates has gone 3rd party

Gary Johnson to Drop Out of GOP Race to Run as Libertarian

3

Malaria Vaccine?

Hey, I have a better idea. Its less expensive so 3^rd world people can afford it. LetÂ’s get rid of the stupid ban on DDT.

4 It's the goddamn Stupid party for a reason!

5

CA suing Fannie & Freddie for info

Good luck with that one

6

Newt giving up his nice guy act

7 Hackers outing police who threw out the OWS crowd and people who advocated boycott of Muslim show

8

Old RINO shitbag chimes in on Payroll Tax shit

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said the failure of the House to approve the bipartisan Senate bill to extend the payroll-tax cut is “harming the Republican Party.”

Piss off and go home and resign you asshole. You did more to harm the Republican Party than anyone in 2008.

9

And speaking of shitbags

Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) said Tuesday that President Obama "absolutely" should use his executive power to continue the unemployment benefits and payroll tax cut extension and said she hoped to discuss the option with the White House later in the day.

ArenÂ’t these racially gerrymandered districts awesome. Why is it that they always produce the biggest commie idiot possible when they know reelection is a sure thing.

10

Iowa evangelical calls for Bachmann to drop out

Is this guy “for real”?  What is different about her and Santorum? Both have almost zero support.

11

Top 10 wastes of money in the Coburn Report

These are really stupid but one must keep in mind the object of these wastes of money is NOT the targeted project. It is to reward cronies and supporters with federal largess. In other words it is pure corruption.

12

National Guard troops on Mexican border to be cut by 75%

Not sure what good they do anyway. We sent them down there unarmed into a damn war zone. But this does reflect Obama attitude towards closing the border.

13

And speaking of racially gerrymandered minority majority districts, our own Jim Clyburn chimes in on evil Republicans and Obama

14

Finally an indictment out of fast & Furious! A gun dealer

These crooked idiots can not be serious.

15

Richland County (Columbia) wants a new law to make home owners keep their cats from leaving their yard

The stupid, it burns!  Perhaps they will pass a law next that makes water run uphill.

16

That rabies victim that I posted about a few days ago has died

People, if you get bitten by an animal do get it checked. This is not a laughing matter to be brushed off and it WILL kill you.

17 Those damn TEA partiers.  If only they would shut the hell up, the men of quality could save us all.  We'd have mega-majorities in both houses.

18

Outrage of the day. School in PA does Christmas play stressing corporate greed and communism in Occupy North Poll

How do these people get away with this shit?  Because the feds have taken over the school systems and locals have almost zero say in how their schools are run.

19

And thatÂ’s it for news today. The big story sucking all the O2 out of the news is the fight over the so-called Pay Roll Tax cut which really is virtually worthless economically speaking. 

And NOBODY mentions all the little gotcha poison pills that the Dems put in the bill in the Senate. Not a single news organization mentions anything but Republicans are going to cause a tax hike.  

20 Why can't we trust in arch-conservative Mitch McConnell's vision?  When have we ever had reason to doubt him?

21 Thanks Vic! Have a Merry Christmas!

22 Our country faces existential ruin because of thirty years of TEA party purity.

Not compromising Republicans signing off on shit sandwich deals.

23 Gabe that WSJ article is typical of what the MFM is saying. I'm glad the House stifled it. The Senate version is a POS.

But it doesn't really matter what the House did. If they had voted it in on the first day the MFM would still be singing Hosannas to Obama.

Its what they do.

24

So, basically what we have is a typical Wednesday under the boot of the SCOAMF's oppressive administration. Crime, corruption, lies, coverups, and false accusations of racism.

Is it time to start drinking yet?

25 The big story sucking all the O2 out of the news is the fight over the so-called Pay Roll Tax cut which really is virtually worthless economically speaking. 


This is the same mistake the House GOP made last year. The first and most important issue when it comes to cutting taxes is cutting taxes. It is not some type of economic social engineering. If you or House GOP has another idea for boosting the economy and creating jobs, we should do that in addition to this tax cut, not in lieu of this tax cut.

26 Gabe, I think you're worrying over nothing.  I was assured in August that Boehner had secured electoral victory in 2012 when he set up the framework for the SuperCommittee (which, as we all know, averted a credit downgrade).

27

Bitch McConnell and the crew up there need to be thrown out as well. They appear to be the darlings of the Stoopid Party Establishment and aren't doing one damned thing to get us out of our current crisis.

Hell, they can't even articulate what it is that they're trying to do.

We are well and truly boned.

28 If you or House GOP has another idea for boosting the economy and creating jobs, we should do that in addition to this tax cut, not in lieu of this tax cut.

The House HAS done stuff to boost the economy but it has died in the Senate.  What the GOP needs to do is highlight all the bills that Harry Reid is sitting on or has defeated and tell the people what is really needed to fix the economy which is two things:

1) Get the Democrats out of Congress and the WH.
2) Repeal every law passed since the Dems took over congress in 2007.

Of course without owning the MFM it will be hard to get that out.

29 The first and most important issue when it comes to cutting taxes is cutting taxes.

No, the first and most important issue is to prevent taxes from being rasised.  This isn't a tax cut.  It's a tax holiday of two months.  In two months, there will be a tax increase back to the old levels.

30 Anymore great victories like this, and the GOP may as well spend the Presidential campaign season on a beach in Miami. Why is the GOP so profoundly stupid?

31 Another thing, since Faux news bought the WSJ it has moved a lot to the left.

32 10 - Vic, the difference is, Bachmann is there specifically for the purpose of taking votes away from Perry. Santorum isn't taking votes away from anybody.

33 30 Anymore great victories like this, and the GOP may as well spend the Presidential campaign season on a beach in Miami.

Why is the GOP so profoundly stupid?

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 21, 2011 07:20 AM (niZvt)

They are not that stupid.  Why just the other day they traded a cow for some beans and a jar of KY jelly.

34 It's a tax holiday of two months.  In two months, there will be a tax increase back to the old levels.


 Bullshit. Nobody believes that the payroll tax holiday would not be extended for the full year or longer.

35

My Senator, Marco Rubio, laid it out in his floor speech the other day in language so simple even a politician can understand it when he said that the SCOAMF got everything he wanted from Congress in his first two years in office.

And things have gotten worse.

But thanks to the MFM, the public has yet to make that connection. And they probably never will, as long as the talking heads are bought and paid for by the anti-Christ George Soros.

36  Bullshit. Nobody believes that the payroll tax holiday would not be extended for the full year or longer.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 21, 2011 07:24 AM (XVaFd)

Just like everybody knew the Super Committee would avert a credit downgrade, and that the Super Committee would awesomely hem in the Democrats?

37 Yeah, perhaps the GOP in the House should sponsor a bill to make cats stay in their own yard too.

38 ah, i see Vic is bringing the heat this morning.       our feral goverment has indicted a gun dealer, but the peeps at the doj walk.  amazing.    why am i not surprised. 

39 They are not that stupid.  Why just the other day they traded a cow for some beans and a jar of KY jelly.

Boner did that and now all he has left is this

Applicable Boner song

40 This will all be forgotten in a month. Then we will be off to the next "crisis".

41

Why is the GOP so profoundly stupid?

They do not want what's good for the country.

They want power. Unless there's something else going on that we don't know about. They seem to be aiding and giving comfort to our enemies. In this day and age, they can't possibly be that out of touch with the will of the people.

One example is O'Care. It was never popular with the people and that sentiment has only grown now that we're finding out what's in it. Yet, strangely, the GOP isn't united in opposition, for if they were, we'd hear it more.

Ditto for all the other low-hanging fruit of actual, real, live talking points concerning SCOAMF's various failures. We don't hear a word about them when they should be on the lips of each and every member of that party all day every day.

I'm starting to wonder about a great many things concerning the GOP "leadership," and none of them are good. Why are they not imitating what the left did to GWB for eight years, namely criticizing his every move, even his bathroom trips? Hell, it worked for them, didn't it? We got the SCOAMF, didn't we?

42

This will all be forgotten in a month. Then we will be off to the next "crisis",  SQUIRREL

 

43

Thats an interesting take on it, Gabe.  I can see where you're coming from.  I immediatel had a very different opinion of where they all screwed up there though.  Mitch McConnell negotiated a two-month tax holiday in exchange for a permanent increase in mortgage fees.  And the tea party in the House said "not so fast."

 

Anyway, Potato Bandit (!) is right.  This only matters to the wonks in the room-- namely, us.

44 OK, ciao, 'rons 'n 'ettes, I'm off to the salt mine once more. Have fun and try not to trash the place.

45 One example is O'Care. It was never popular with the people and that sentiment has only grown now that we're finding out what's in it. Yet, strangely, the GOP isn't united in opposition, for if they were, we'd hear it more.

Well the House did pass a bill last February to repeal it and all 47 Republican Senators voted yes to repeal it in the Senate. All the Democrats voted to keep it.

Remember that "deal" from The Repubs, they traded a raise in the debt limit for an up or down vote on Obamacare. 

46 Have fun at work BB.

47 Greetings from Wisconsin, my fellow maroons. Back to NYC this afters. I should think (and pray) that the majority of Americans can see through this ploy and remember the abject misery of the past 3 years while feeling even more misery for 1 more. SCOAMF I think in my bones is done. The question is will it be a full 57 state landslide or a squeaker?

48 I predict a "squeaker".

49 You give too much credit to the average American. There are basically 3 groups of voters. Those deeply involved with the workings of government, those who are simply partisan, and those who don't give a damn. Those who are partisan are already committed regardless of circumstances, those who are involved know the duplicity of both parties and will wade through the morass and then decide, those who don't give a damn for the most part will not vote anyway. Voter fraud will be the key in many precincts not knowledge.

50

The House GOP did the right thing.  A two month agreement is useless. Everybody knows that including the public that bloggers tend to underestimate. Why doesn't the Senate Democrats just agree to a one year deal? If a two month agreement is good for them, why not a one year? The GOP can easily make that case and also emphasize that the two month agreement is unworkable.

Does President Idiot have the nerve to go to Hawaii with this yet to be resolved? Of course he does but he will pay for it as will the Democrats. People are not stupid. The GOP just has to continue to make the case.

 

 

51 I'm glad someone in the House is finally showing some balls. Could the timing be better? Sure. But the perfect is the enemy of the good.

52 Is this the doom thread?

53 I pretty much agree with the WSJ's take on this - laying blame squarely at the feet of the GOP leadership, if you can call it that.

54 Yes, its doomy news. Which reminds me, I forgot the doom puppy this morning. Oh well.

55 Yeah. I'll file this condescending rant in the same place I filed the condescending rant about why we MUST raise the debt ceiling because it wasn't the hill to die on: in El Shittero.

56

Evil Doom puppy

57 1. This post sucks. 2. Only clownfuckers use the phrase 'but the Tea Party led rank and file revolted.' Damn them and their principles!

58 Insanity, Gabe
That will teach those "racist" Arizonans who has the right to abuse power and neglect responsibilities. 

Secretary Janet Napolitano said Thursday the Department of Homeland Security is ending an agreement with the Maricopa County sheriff's office of trained deputies access to the Secure Communities program that uses fingerprints collected in local jails for identification of suspects. (Dec.15, AP)

59 Goddamit! The Tea Party didn't sweep to power in 2010 on outrage at government spending, they were a response to outraged Americans who demanded meaningless political fig leaf 2-month payroll tax holidays. Why can nobody else see this?!

60

Just ponder Obama as prez for 4 more years. + A democrat controlled house and senate and a democrat controlled Supreme Court.

Say hello to "Employee Free Choice" aka "Card Check" aka "The end of the private ballot" aka "A leftwing union goon stands over you while you *wink* vote for the democrat unionista machine to take over industry in America and turn said industry a baby-sitting factory/democrat unnion money laundering machines as far as the eye can see."

Say hello to extremely unfair and punitive taxes.

Say hello to Greece.

61

More doom!

62 Morning all, Thanks for the news round up Vic. I look forward to the day we have good news in the morning-Republicans decide to represent their constituency, rather than the elite; the EPA is disbanded and businesses are allowed to conform to logical environmental parameters that are good for both environment and people's livelihoods, the school systems has been restructured to actually teach kids knowledge, rather than what they need to pass an NEA designed test, so that our kids can rank higher on national scores, and take on jobs that are going to H-1 visa holders, and government officials are truly held accountable for their actions. It is Christmas, I can wish can't I?

63 I'm gonna bite the bullet and become a Democrat.

Sick of this shit.

64 Remember the "budget cuts" theater earlier this year?  None of this has anything to do with governing or even reality.  Ship of Fools.

65 The Senate bill is smoke and the house bill is mirrors. Do nothing or do either of the bills and at the end of the day nothing has changed. The structural problems of both SS and medicare still remain.  But lets pretend this "tax vacation" means something.

66 Important announcement: Deadly weapons have been added to the AoSHQ Amazon Store.

67 It is Christmas, I can wish can't I?

Well if you are in PA the schools are teaching the joys of communism and OWS gatherings. .....as a Christmas play.

68 Why is the GOP so profoundly stupid?

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 21, 2011 07:20 AM (niZvt)

Gotta be hardwired in the DNA.

69 laying blame squarely at the feet of the GOP leadership, if you can call it that.

another Mittgrich endorsement?

We only thought we earned our wages by working.

Please sir, I want some more.

70 The Tea Party is a like a bull in a china shop with no sense of political strategy whatsoever. The fucktards are going to get Obama reelected.

71   62 the squirrels shall inherit the earth

72

And people think it's SOOOOO important that we elect Mitt Romney so we can get more of this. 

My enthusiasm for the november elections has gone from a 10 two years ago to a 2. 

I hate the f--king GOP. 

73 You know how the GOP should spin this? Tell the people the truth, tell them to get used to tax hikes because under the Democrats government spending or the economy isn't going to change and taxing the rich isn't going to be enough. Tell them this is just the start of tax increases on the poor an middle class.

74

Say hello to Greece.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at December 21, 2011 07:55 AM (O7ksG)

And I'll say hello to Belize. It's looking better and better every day, especially on days when President Petulant's approval rating gets near 50%. We are becoming - and are nearly there - a nation of retards and delusionals.

75 Hardly ever watch local news, but this morning I had it on and heard that the GOP was blocking a payroll tax cut extension!

76 Well if you are in PA the schools are teaching the joys of communism and OWS gatherings. .....as a Christmas play. Posted by: Vic I saw that, and just smacked my forehead. Do any of these teachers/administrators wonder why scores are dropping like the temperature in Alaska come October? How about teaching something kids can really use, like grammar and basic math? Or is it because these teachers can't do it so they only teach what they know? Off to the vet-my pup has her ACL surgery this morning, so we are hoping she will be stabilized and won't damage any other legs after this.

77 Anybody want to guess what the State of the Union will be about?

The same sorts of lies and stupidity as the last one?

Why are you scared of what Barky is going to say?  The guy is a retard who NO ONE takes seriously - not even his own supporters. 

The Senate bill was shit.  End of story.  Grow a pair.

78 The Tea Party is a like a bull in a china shop with no sense of political strategy whatsoever. The fucktards are going to get Obama reelected.

Posted by: packsoldier at December 21, 2011 08:01 AM (S7roo)

And here is the main problem with so-called 'realist' Republicans.  They think they can see the future.

No bill is analyzed based upon what it does, but only what it will do politically.  If you disagree, the 'realist' will use his superior understanding of human nature to educate you.  Usually with invective at how silly you are for not agreeing with his unsubstantiated hunches.

And when they don't get it right (which is always), that just goes down the memory hole because it isn't important.  All that is important is the here and now, and the future.  And they always know what we must do.

Of course, the Republican party has been run by these people, and look what our political gamesmanship has gotten us - a country on the brink of insolvency.

79 Tell the people the truth, tell them to get used to tax hikes because under the Democrats government spending or the economy isn't going to change and taxing the rich isn't going to be enough.

Except that would be racist!

80 Blame the Tea Party!

81

A payroll tax holiday doesn't do much to offset the Illinois *spit* toll road increase I have to deal with or the higher energy costs that everyone has to deal with thanks to this jackass President.

Not the the MFM will help people think about that even if the GOP were to scream it from every mountaintop.

82 i'm with the house republicans.......

83

They should never be referring to this as the payroll tax anyway. It's "funding for Social Security that Democrats want to cut".

This time of year nobody's interested in dissecting the issue and a decent soundbite like that would toss the issue into the Political Squabble/Ignore pile for all but the wonkiest.

84

I'm glad someone in the House is finally showing some balls.

Could the timing be better? Sure. But the perfect is the enemy of the good.

This is the underpants gnome theory of politics, Andy.

 

(1) Kill a wildly popular bill.

(2) ???

(3) Profit!

 

85

Why are you scared of what Barky is going to say? The guy is a retard who NO ONE takes seriously - not even his own supporters. 

Here's the thing. I really, really want us to win the next elections. Big win. Like, take over two branches of government big. And giving the President ammunition isn't the best way to get there.

 

86 Cravaaaaack!

The bill says military travelers must be in uniform and present their orders to get the expedited screening. "An expedited, risk-based TSA screening process is the least we can do for our men and women in uniform and their families who sacrifice so much," said chief sponsor Rep. Chip Cravaack, R-Minn. He said the bill also would be an important piece of the government's move toward a screening system based on risk and intelligence information.

Next year, maybe.

87

This is the underpants gnome theory of politics, Andy.

(1) Kill a wildly popular bill.

 Really?  Wildly popular?  With who?  On what do you base that assessment?

88 November is a long way away. People forget. Having decided on a course of action the House needs to stick with it. They have managed to bungle the optics but hey, no use in steering now, eh? They passed a better bill. If they sign on the two month extension it will be argued about again for two months every two months going into the election. Swallow the bitter pill now. According to the press, House Republicans are responsible for the leaves in my yard and halitosis.

89 wildly popular the tweeters loved it! follow me on tweeter

90 What do the tweeters say we should do next?

91

Here is what the Republican Message should be right now in an unrelenting full chorus!

 

The Democrats only want you to pay taxes. The Democratic Senate and the President  only want you to have the payroll tax cuts for 2 MONTHS!

 

Republicans are holding out against this two month plan from the Democratic Senate in order to get you that payroll Tax Break for the FULL YEAR! 

 

And Republicans will not give in to the President who only wants you to have this tax break for two months! The American public deserves more than a sixty day payroll tax break, the American public deserves the Payroll tax break for three hundred and sixty days!

 

Maybe a few less exclamation points.  And an Oxford comma somewhere.

92 What do the tweeters say we should do next?

Posted by: soothie at December 21, 2011 08:17 AM (YO+5B)

I'm going to guess it involves hills and not dying on them.  It is now insane rightwing behavior for the House to go to conference.

93 83 They should never be referring to this as the payroll tax anyway. It's "funding for Social Security that Democrats want to cut".

This time of year nobody's interested in dissecting the issue and a decent soundbite like that would toss the issue into the Political Squabble/Ignore pile for all but the wonkiest.

Posted by: spongeworthy at December 21, 2011 08:13 AM (puy4B)

 

 

Holy shit, this is true.  The Democrats are demanding we defund social security!  We're not going to go along with their risky schemes that destroy SS!

94 Here's the thing. I really, really want us to win the next elections. Big win. Like, take over two branches of government big. And giving the President ammunition isn't the best way to get there.

RINO.

95 We do stupid things because we have poor leadership.  Haster and Frist were a disaster during the Bush years, and now Boehner and McConnell are disasters during the Obama years.  Just like Pelosi and Reid are disasters on the other side.

The same characteristics that make you want to be a political leader should probably exclude you from ever actually serving as one.

96 Finally, a Family-Friendly Ferrari

97 Compromise is the best option. When the Democrats want your balls, meet them halfway and give them one testicle. At the end of day you'll still have a testicle and you won't piss off the Democrats...too much.

98

Oh.  Yay.  Extra doooooooooooom.

I'm in a bit of a set it on fire and watch it all burn mood today and shit like this is why.  We're facing an actual existential crisis about the future of our country and the GOP is being actively stupid.  Head, meet Desk.  Desk, Head.  Lather rinse repeat.

99

(1) Kill a wildly popular bill.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 21, 2011 08:13 AM (IkTb7)

What percentage of the population do you think even knows of the existence of this bill, Senate or House version?  7%?  That's wild, but not what I would call "popular" even giving you the assumption that 3000% of people who have heard of the bill support it.

100 Political preferences arealways based on personal self-interest. Right now, fiscal conservatism holds a slight edge over social liberalism. But I have a suspicion that if Gabe ever meets that special fella, the balance will tip the other way. Tip hard. Tip over like Guam with 5,000 Marines standing on one edge.

101 Gabe, the original demogoguery over the payroll tax cut extension was giving Obama and the Dems massive ammunition: remember the millionaire surtax and how "Republicans want to take money from the working class to protect the rich"? The first act of political ju-jitsu that the House GOP used to disarm the Dems was deleting the millionaire surtax in favor of Keystone XL - which is a popular project and which forces Obama to screw either the unions or the greenies. The second act of political ju-jitsu that further disarms the Dems is the House's insistence on assuring the tax extension for the full year: now the Democrats have to explain why THEY can't make a full-year extension pass. Obama can spew and sputter as much as he wants, but it's clear that he's so powerless in this matter that he can't even get to his vacation on time. He doesn't look Presidential when he's reduced to sitting on the sidelines and carping.

102 Hard times call for hard decisions. Hard decisions are made by hard men. if the hardness persists for more than four hours, consult your doctor. Or a Thai tranny hooker. Your choice.

103 @83  They should never be referring to this as the payroll tax anyway. It's "funding for Social Security that Democrats want to cut".

This time of year nobody's interested in dissecting the issue and a decent soundbite like that would toss the issue into the Political Squabble/Ignore pile for all but the wonkiest.

Posted by: spongeworthy at December 21, 2011 08:13 AM (puy4B)

Excellent!

104 And giving the President ammunition isn't the best way to get there. No one will even be thinking of this, when the election comes around. Just like nobody cares he killed OBL anymore. The only thing that matters is the economy.

105 So, because the American voter is too stupid, we conservatives must do nothing or we cannot be elected. This will still be true in 2012, 2014, and so on. So we must not act! Just keep going along. Nothing gets fixed, but we get a chance to garner a few seats in the kabuki theater.
 
Yeah, that makes sense.
 
How about pointing out what is happening in Europe, with their cradle to grave so called safety net and near 0% of GDP military spending -- and they are still all going broke? Is that not relevant?
 
I think the choices we face must be made clear and stark -- change NOW or face a crash. There will be pain. That is unavoidable. Make it known. Say it every day. Say we don't have to crash and burn, but only if we change away from Euro habits.
 
If we get tossed from office, then so be it. Watch it all crumble in fast motion, with CA and IL and the other blue states leading the way.
 
I'm ready for it. It sure beats watching us aid and abet the collapse by appeasement over and over.

106 Widely popular?? I guess it is if you trust the ABC/Washington Post poll Faux was quoting this morning. Personally I don't trust either one as far as I could throw their building.

The Republicans need to find a way to get their message out. I have been saying that for years now and they still haven't found a way to bypass the MFM.

107 When my lib friends start in with the "protect the rich" line of argument I simply ask: Are you that easily gulled? My advice is the same as Patton's advice: Wade into them. Deny THEIR premise. When you put your hand into a pile of goo that was a cogent analysis of Barack Obama's latest stuttering clusterfuckery of miserable failure you'll know what to do. We'll go through this election like crap through a goose. Once more into the breach. See you on the other side.

108

Political preferences arealways based on personal self-interest.

Huh.  And here I thought my political preferences were based on careful thought and in-depth consideration of the role of the individual vs. the state, the definition of freedom and liberty, analysis of the role of society in regards to maintaining order and the balance of freedom vs. security.  Sheesh, if I'd known that I could just pick shit based on self-interest, it would have saved a ton of time that could have been better spent getting drunk. 

109 I figure when I give Obama ammunition there's a fifty/fifty chance he'll shoot himself in the foot. there's also a 10% chance that he'll hand that ammo to Sheriff Joe Biden. At which point ... who knows?

110 The GOP is graciously handing the next election to Obama. He should remember to send them a thank-you card.

How much more incompetent do you think the Republican leadership can be next year? I'm sure Dems are anxiously waiting for more and better screw-ups from the disaster that is the GOP.

Happy holidays...

111

@95 Haster and Frist were a disaster during the Bush years

You are too kind to them. Especially Frist.  

112

Euro court rules that they can tax the shit out of American airlines for CO2 rules

How about this. We tax the shit out of euro airlines using American airports and reimburse the airlines. Tit for tat. But I guess as long as we have the watermelon commies in power that will never happen.

113

How much more incompetent do you think the Republican leadership can be next year?

Dear God, don't challenge them!

114 So of all the hills these fucks have surrendered, the payroll tax cut is the one they've finally decided to take a stand on? Infinity facepalm.

115 70 The Tea Party is a like a bull in a china shop with no sense of political strategy whatsoever. The fucktards are going to get Obama reelected.

The "adults" already gave away the china shop, in addition to getting Obama elected.

116 @107 Once more into the breach.

See you on the other side.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 21, 2011 08:31 AM (h6mPj)

Count me in!

SCOAMF

117 20 Why can't we trust in arch-conservative Mitch McConnell's vision?  When have we ever had reason to doubt him?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 21, 2011 07:10 AM (FkKjr)

Exactly right.  Quit beefing at the House.  McConnell is - as usual - the problem - not the House.  He was handed a winning hand and folded it.

118

Really? Wildly popular? With who? On what do you base that assessment?

_____________________

What percentage of the population do you think even knows of the existence of this bill, Senate or House version? 7%? That's wild, but not what I would call "popular" even giving you the assumption that 3000% of people who have heard of the bill support it.

http://is.gd/3etDpd

"On the payroll tax deduction, 58 percent of respondents said they want Congress to extend the break, while 35 percent want it to expire.

"Democrats and independents are the strongest supporters of continuing the tax cut, while Republicans were evenly divided. But the difference is more partisan than ideological: Conservatives supported an extension, 54 percent to the 42 percent who prefer to let the reduction expire.

"Those with annual incomes below $50,000 more strongly support the extension compared with higher-income respondents, and seniors were more likely than younger adults to back the extension."

I guarantee you that when the first paychecks in 2012 come out, people are going to notice that they're getting less than they were.

 

 

119 As Gae points out, there was an awful lot of dancing in the end zone about the pipeline thing. Who could have guessed that the GOP could screw that up? And for those placing the blame on Tea Partiers, WTF were they thinking in the Senate agreeing to go for 2 months?

120 Ooh, typo. Gabe.

121

He was handed a winning hand and folded it.

Oh, how typical. Blame Boehner, even though Boehner wasn't the one to throw the brakes on. He gave McConnell the go-ahead on the deal. Then (as usual) the rank-and-file members revolted and derailed the whole thing.

122 Another point against this whole bill is the increase in Freddie/Fannie mortgage fees. An analysis I saw yesterday said that it would increase the payments on a new $250k mortgage by $3000/yr. How is that going to help the most decimated part of our economy, the housing market? Since the gubmint is now the originator of 90% of all new mortgages, doesn't this 'surcharge' just shoot the horse in the head as it struggles to get back on its feet?
 
Yeah, I'm impressed.

123 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

124 Lol, Alex, you have a point, whenever Mitch comes back with a deal, the proper reaction is to release the Hounds, because the likes of Scott Brown will have voted
for it, without having actually read it, or maybe his aides did read it, but that's how we got what I like to call Sutton/Dillinger, Dodd Frank.

125 So, Boehner said to McConnell, oh, go ahead and cave, nobody over here cares?

126 I have to say I agree with Stuiec. This is one I havent been following in great detail, so I have been really listening to soundbites here and there. Even from that it made no sense to me to extend something for two months. Then the stupid congress will have to get their panties in a wad in two months time over this, instead of going on to other more important things. Every time the MFM says how Obama is willing to "work" with Congress, etc, I just snort and think "yeah right" cause I remember Obamacare. So to me (and I consider myself pretty average) this is just usual congress haggling stuff. I will forget about it. But Obamacare, Cap and Trade, Cardcheck, the GM bailout - all those have stuck in my head now for two years at least. Then there is Fast and Furious. So I am hopeful that that is what we can remind people of. Oh and however said the comment about vote fraud - I agree with you 100%. BUT there is something that us morons can do individually about it, if we are so inclined. Go volunteer to be an election judge!! I am not kidding . Sure it takes time (a day for training is all here) and effort (sitting for 14 to 15 hrs on election day at the polling precinct) but it at least gives us some ability to help make the process legitimate. I know it won't help the mail in vote fraud but there are other organizations that have been formed to go over voter registrations. Just sayin

127 Huh.  And here I thought my political preferences were based on careful thought and in-depth consideration of the role of the individual vs. the state, the definition of freedom and liberty, analysis of the role of society in regards to maintaining order and the balance of freedom vs. security.  Sheesh, if I'd known that I could just pick shit based on self-interest, it would have saved a ton of time that could have been better spent getting drunk. Those ARE you personal self-interests, and mine. Because adhering to those principles are my way of using the power of my vote to shape a society that I want to live in and pass on to my children. But that's me. And that's you. But, what if I wanted something different? What if I wanted all guns banned, or the ability to marry another man, or a guaranteed "living wage" for all Americans? Might I be willing to trade or compromise some of those other values for the things I want MOST? It happens all the time, especially as we become adults and examine the beliefs that weren't formed, but instilled. How many people do you know that started as liberals? Why did they convert?

128

Well the first of the primary candidates has gone 3rd party

Gary Johnson to Drop Out of GOP Race to Run as Libertarian


Is there enough time for the Libertarians to run a primary between him and Ron Paul?

129 He gave McConnell the go-ahead on the deal. Then (as usual) the rank-and-file members revolted and derailed the whole thing.

Boehner can't count.

130 For all the Paulbots, and your nasty mouth candidate.. We know your game.. Here are the facts:

Fact 1. The Grassroots TEA Party movement DOES NOT endorse or run candidates.. Nor do they endorse Republicans or Democrats.

Fact 2. Any organization calling itself a Tea Party, is not endorsed by the TEA Party movement.

Fact 3. Ron Paul and his supporters are trying to hijack the movement for political gain.

Fact 4. The TEA Party does not have tax-exempt status, as would a political organization or "Party." (bottom of the page)

It's all right HERE, in the mission statement. (.pdf)

131 Gabe - while I admire your ability to see the future, the Senate Dems might cave and/or the extensions haven't yet lapsed. Then there's that whole independent analysis that the 2 Month plan cannot be implemented - so the Responsible thing to do would be to not pass non-implementable plans. My 11-Dimensional Chess Theory is that the House Republicans, by forcing the Senate to reconvene is doing so to prevent Obama making recess appointments. for the children.

132 My 11-Dimensional Chess Theory is that the House Republicans, by forcing the Senate to reconvene is doing so to prevent Obama making recess appointments. for the children.

Repubs have already taken car of that.

133

@118 I guarantee you that when the first paychecks in 2012 come out, people are going to notice that they're getting less than they were.

The tumultous cacaphony of the masses will resound across the land.

134 The Senate Republicans have issued a warning, but the Senate actually being in session would prevent any recess appointment. I think.

135 they should replace Boehner though that clown has no ability to sell anything to his own party. Alan West for speaker!

136 "On the payroll tax deduction, 58 percent of respondents said they want Congress to extend the break, while 35 percent want it to expire.

Do the respondents want a two month extension?

And, is the GOP's position they want it to expire, or that they want to go to committee with the Senate with an amended bill?

Then (as usual) the rank-and-file members revolted and derailed the whole thing.

Bullshit.  Did they revolt when Boehner reneged on his plan to cut 100 billion from the 2010 budget and instead cut one billion?   Or when they passed the 'Grand Bargain' of the Super Committee after Boehner's pleading?

Seems to me the TEA party folk have given Boehner a lot of leeway, and that he has exhausted it stupidly.  And agreed to a deal without knowing what the caucus thought of it.

And, as you've proven, the TEA party get no credit for playing 'ball.'  The media still excoriates them, and some of us buy it.

137 Blame Boehner, even though Boehner wasn't the one to throw the brakes on. He gave McConnell the go-ahead on the deal. Then (as usual) the rank-and-file members revolted and derailed the whole thing.
 
Well Gabe, I think a little Boehner finger pointing is acceptable here. One thing you have to give to Pelosi, she knew pretty much how her herd would vote on any issue. Boehner doesn't seem to have gotten that consensus from his caucus before telling McConnell to go ahead with the Senate version.
 
He should have predicted this outcome as a possibility. And advised his Senate cohort accordingly.

138 "Stupid is as stupid does."

Whatever technical rationale they come up with it looks horrible, and plays right into "their" hands.  Tea partiers proving their super-conservative credentials to Rush?

Easy argument even a democrat can make:  So if reducing taxes (tax rates) results in a net increase in tax revenue, why does this not qualify?  And we call b.s. on the Social Security trust fund counter argument.

Four more years?  Jeezus.

139 We can all agree that a return to the Gold standard would be the sensible thing to do? Right? Right.

140

Here is what they have done

The Senate adjourned for the year shortly after 3:30 p.m. Saturday, but GOP leaders insisted on holding ten cursory pro-forma sessions over the next month to stop President Obama from making recess appointments.

141

Baby and corrupt asshole Senate leader Harry Reid(D) wants 2 months and claims he want more, but not now. That's ploitics and the American people should see through it.

 

142 Posted by: Glenn Becque at December 21, 2011 08:50 AM (h6mPj) Hadji?!

143 Thanks, Vic I guess the House Republicans aren't playing 11th dimensional chess ... maybe Tic-Tac-Toe ... against a trained chicken. and we all know how well that works out.

144 The first and most important issue when it comes to cutting taxes is cutting taxes.

Gabe, I think you need to get out of the Beltway.  Seriously.

Cutting taxes simply to cut taxes is pointless.  Conservatives do not believe in cutting taxes as an end, we believe in it as a means to certain ends: specifically increased economic liberty and reduced government.  This payroll tax holiday does neither.  It is all style and no substance.

The point of getting elected isn't to get elected again (whatever politicians believe), it's to represent your constituents.

Now, I'm all in favor of paying fewer taxes, but let's look at a couple of problems with the payroll tax holiday-

1) It's virtually non-existent.  I get paid pretty decently.  I take home about $25.00 per paycheck more.  My world is not going to be shattered if that stops.  In the aggregate, however, that is significant chunk of change for the government's already over-stressed budget.

2) It's temporary.  As in "could be gone next week" temporary.  The Democrats want a whopping 8 weeks.  Yeah, that's huge tax relief right there.  The two main problems (there are others) with it being temporary are these: A) It will cost business more to implement it than it saves people on their taxes.  Can you say "net drain on the economy?"  I knew you could.  B) People cannot plan on that money for any sort of long-term spending or investing.  $25.00 per paycheck is one extra night out to Pizza Hut every two weeks.  This is not going to help the economy.  However, you can't say, "But if I save it all year, that'll be $650 at the end of the year, that'll buy me a new gun!" because you don't know it will be there at the end of the year.

So spare me your tears for Boehner and McConnell.  They poohed the scrooch on this one.  Just like so many before it.

145

My 11-Dimensional Chess Theory is that the House Republicans, by forcing the Senate to reconvene is doing so to prevent Obama making recess appointments. for the children.

No, the Senate wasn't in recess. It was still technicaly in session to keep Obama from making recess appointments. McConnell made sure of that. http://is.gd/8hW0m9

146 Wildly popular, Gabe? You know what else is wildly popular? Social Security, Medicare, and all the rest of the entitlements that are bankrupting us, that's what. The House GOP decided they were tired of being pissed on and told it was raining. Good for them and let the chips fall where they may.

147 That's ploitics and the American people should see through it.

A third of the American people think the U.S. government planned 9/11.

A third of the American people give a shit who the Kardashians are fucking.

A third of the American people think rap music is poetry.

Need I go on?

148 The problem is we're drawing down on the Social Security 'trust fund' in order to do it, just when we need to be building it up,

149 The Keystone Deal was not a victory. It did not promise the pipeline - it made the President make a decision. Which was going to be to cancel the pipeline. And in return we would get what? To argue about this same damn payroll tax holiday two months from now? So then we would have to accept that with what - popular pipeline thing will be off the table.

150

The left live to lie, vilify, cheat, tax, destory and feather their nests.

151

"Anyway, Potato Bandit (!) is right.  This only matters to the wonks in the room-- namely, us."

I'm not so sure about that. The non-wonks out there are mad as hell and looking for someone to blame. Congress  just had its lowest approval poll ever. Pravda will seek every opportunity over the next year to hammer R's and build up D's.

I heard a conservative leaning analyst say last night that the next year's Presidential election (one the R's ought to be sailing toward with the wind at their backs) will likely be more up in the air than any election in his lifetime. Stupid mistakes like this and handing Democrats and the MFM clubs to pound them with may cost the Republicans - and us - a Presidency.   

152 brb, checkin twitter

153 Glenn Becque at December 21, 2011 08:50 AM

Oh yes, of course.

Tying the Money Supply to a Gold miner makes all the sense in the world.

*sigh*

154 So let me understand - the GOP should go along with everything the Dems say so they don't look bad, then run on "elect us to stop this Obama crap!" How does that work again?

155 on topic (for headline comments) but no fucking thank you on "America's surrender" in Iraq, Truman North. I'm as disappointed by Obama's failure to extend our military presence as the next guy who spent 26 months there but turning the whole thing into an "American surrender", i.e. defeat, is serious misprioritizing.
It's not so important to paint one more scoamfy failure in the harshest possible terms as to justify writing off the entire war as a defeat. Yes, call him out for throwing away the chance to better secure our gains and improve the chance of a healthy, free Iraqi society just to score some political points but don't let it define the whole operation. Because guess what: no matter when we got out of there, there was sure to be violence as the terrorists and various power-seekers test the governments ability to stand on its own. And no matter how long we drug it out, they were eventually going to have to stand or fall on their own. There was always a chance they would fail and there's still a chance they won't.

So chill the fuck out on the "surrender" shit.

156 More importantly, someone left a 5 lb box of chocolates in the break room with a note reading "help yourself." Don't mind if I do.

157

Cutting taxes simply to cut taxes is pointless. Conservatives do not believe in cutting taxes as an end, we believe in it as a means to certain ends: specifically increased economic liberty and reduced government. This payroll tax holiday does neither. It is all style and no substance.

I can't believe what I'm hearing. You are so desperate to contort your way into seeing that opposing tax cuts is a good thing that you've just chucked a cornerstone conservative position.

You are out of your ever-loving mind. Absolutely conservatives believe that cutting taxes is an end in itself. It's my money, not the government's. (And, by the way, that is "increased economic liberty.") You've totally bought into the liberal's belief that government redistribution of wealth is to be used for socio-economic engineering.

 

158 Boehner strikes me as a lawyer who doesn't know what his client ( the caucus) will say on the witness stand- ever. In other words, a dolt. Even Pelosi knew that much.

159 Why would we want to temporarily "save" 2% on our FICA, and permanently add between $3000 and $5000 in taxes on a home loan?

Both versions of this bill impose a permanent new tax on every mortgage backed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

160 Gabe the payroll tax holiday is not a "tax cut" - and accepting that premise is playing the Democrat game. I am willing to say that the Democrats are rolling Grandma's wheelchair off the cliff by raiding the lockbox, but also willing to say, okay, I'll go along with it if we can eliminate other spending to offset what we are stealing for our deserving seniors. Why can't the GOP?

161

So let me understand - the GOP should go along with everything the Dems say so they don't look bad, then run on "elect us to stop this Obama crap!"

How does that work again?

Posted by: blaster at December 21, 2011 08:58 AM (Fw2Gg)

 

House GOP already said they'd give the President what he wants: a full year extension on the tax cut. In fact, they did more than just say it; they actually passed one. I repeat: they already went along with what the President asked for.

So let's not pretend that they're making a bold stand against the payroll tax holiday. They're for it (now). They just didn't want to sign on to the Senate version because it didn't make the issue go away for the rest of the year and they're tired of getting punched in the nuts about it on national television.

162 I'm not so sure about that. The non-wonks out there are mad as hell and looking for someone to blame. Congress just had its lowest approval poll ever. Pravda will seek every opportunity over the next year to hammer R's and build up D's. How much will that help the SCFOAMF, if over 20% of people are still out of work?

163 So, again, to avoid getting punched in the nuts right now, they should agree to be punched in the nuts every two months between now and election day? Again, this is smart how?

164

Wildly popular, Gabe?

You know what else is wildly popular? Social Security, Medicare, and all the rest of the entitlements that are bankrupting us, that's what.

The House GOP decided they were tired of being pissed on and told it was raining. Good for them and let the chips fall where they may.

Doesn't fly, Andy. House GOP is in favor of the payroll tax holiday. They just "paid for" it differently. Gosh, I remember the days when Republicans used to call Democrats out for considering tax cuts to be a form of government spending...

165 Posted by: jwb7605 at December 21, 2011 09:02 AM (Qxe/p)

Can you say redistribution?

166 Is Jon Corzine(D) in jail yet? Oh wait, he is a democrat.

167 All tax cuts are not equal. Here is the ugly truth about the payroll tax - it is regressive. Cutting it doesn't make a difference to the investor class. Hard to argue that. So just call the Dems out for making grandma eat cat food and go from there.

168

I heard reports yesterday that Obama wants a one year extension. It looks like whiny asshole baby Harry Reid is going against him own king.

169 I heard reports yesterday that Obama wants a one year extension. It looks like whiny asshole baby Harry Reid is going against him own king. No no no it's the Tea Party!!! They are the ones! Reid and Pelosi said so!

170

Gabe the payroll tax holiday is not a "tax cut" - and accepting that premise is playing the Democrat game. 

First of all, go read my post. Note the "holiday" language and get off my nuts.

Second, explain to me why we refer to them as the "Bush Tax Cuts" and not the "Bush Tax Holiday" since, after all, they were and are set to expire after a certain term.

171 tax on every mortgage backed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

A tax on money borrowed from the government? WTF?

172 What to do, what to do?  Has anybody consulted our republican windsock, Ron Paul, on this matter?  His record on supporting the outlandish is impeccable.

173 Good news in Winston-Salem! The "Occupy" protest finally produced an arrest. It's front page news (because the local rag has been boosting/facilitating the protest) and at the very end of the story, buried on A 11, is the fact that the arrested doofus is a 20 year old convicted drug dealer with an "assault with a deeadly weapon" charge. Can't wait to get on the message board to claim sweet vindication of everything I've been saying about the punks.

174 Third, the desire to beat SCOAMF will bring everyone together.

Yeah, that's why people keep promising to stay home or vote for Obama if Newt or Mitt are the nominee.

This IS a doom thread.

175 You are out of your ever-loving mind. Absolutely conservatives believe that cutting taxes is an end in itself. It's my money, not the government's. (And, by the way, that is "increased economic liberty.") You've totally bought into the liberal's belief that government redistribution of wealth is to be used for socio-economic engineering.

No.  Really not.  No.  Really haven't.

Cutting taxes just to cut taxes (for its own sake) does nothing.  If it did, we should be advocating for complete repeal of taxes.  We don't do that because we know that's an insane position- not just politically, but practically.

As a corollary, if cutting taxes for its own sake were "a cornerstone of the Conservative position" then we should vote for every miniscule tax-cut the Democrats send our way, regardless of what they attach to it: we would still have achieved our desired end: cutting taxes.

That's bullshit and you know it.  6.5% of my pay is not "increased economic liberty" in any sense worth discussing.  6.5% of my pay, at the cost of (probably) twice that to my employer is worth less than nothing.

We don't look at every individual and say, "If only Joe the Plumber made more money, the economy would be better!"  Joe the Plumber gets more money from a better economy, not (necessarily) the other way around.  What Conservatives do is look at the aggregate and say, "What can we do to increase economic liberty as a whole?  We know that some people are going to be harmed or left behind no matter what we do, but what do we do to minimize that negative impact and maximize the positive?" 

Newsflash: A miniscule "tax cut" (which will inevitably lead to higher taxes later) which costs more for business to implement (oh: and they won't do it right in the time-frame provided, so they'll be liable for that, too) than it will save the Tax Payers decreases net economic liberty.  It is a net drain on the economy.

Say that phrase with me, there, Gabe:  "Net drain on the Economy."  Once more: "Net drain on the Economy."  There.  Now you understand why Conservatives do not agree to a 2 month extension to the payroll tax holiday.

176 How would you like to be a working man, knowing that the amount pulled from your check was going to be renegotiated every two months?

How would you like to be a businessman trying to operate with that uncertainty?

I don't blame Boehner, one damned bit.. It's the Senate Democrats holding up the parade.

177 What to do, what to do?  Has anybody consulted our republican windsock, Ron Paul, on this matter?  According to Ron Paul's campaign website, Prison Planet this reduction of funding for Social Security can be offset by a combination of reduction in foreign aid to Israel, surtaxes on all Jew Gold transfers, increased licensing fees for tonsil-stealing hymie doctors and royalties gained from licensing advanced technology provided by our Reptilian Overlords.

178 I actually cut McConnell more slack that Boehner.  As much as a squish as Mitch is, he is pretty much aligned with the Senate Republican Caucus, itself no bastion of conservatism.  Boehner, not so much.

179 Second, explain to me why we refer to them as the "Bush Tax Cuts" and not the "Bush Tax Holiday" since, after all, they were and are set to expire after a certain term.

Do you practice hard headed?  The Bush Tax Cuts were across the board tax cuts, designed (from the outset) to be permanent.  They were reduced to "temporary" 10 year measures by the political process. 

Even then, the point was that they would be so popular that Congress would make them permanent before they expired (which didn't work out so well, but it was the plan).  So, yes, Bush's cuts were ACTUAL Tax Cuts (well, cuts to the Tax Rate, to be technical) whereas the Payroll Tax Holiday is designed only to be a temporary gimmick to lead to higher taxes down the line.

Even if they'd been designed to be "temporary," and never meant to be made permanent, do you not see a little difference in a 2 month gimmick and a 10 year rate cut?

180

Say that phrase with me, there, Gabe: "Net drain on the Economy." 

That is correct sir.

181 And lest we forget, the 10 year limit on the Bush/Obama tax cuts was to satisfy Juan McCain.

182 I've taken two-month holidays. I've never taken a 10-year holiday.

183

Those ARE you personal self-interests,

That term, personal self-interest, I do not think it means what you think it means.  You appear to be conflating self-interest with prinicples and, to me, those are two very different things.

Here, I'll give an example.  It would be in my personal self-interest to have all student loan debt forgiven.  I am against that on principle due to concerns about such things as the stability of contract law.  Hell, the entire point of that idiotic what's the matter with Kansas book is that the author could not get his wee mind around the idea that the mouth breathers would be voting against their best interests.

Now, it is possible to argue that placing primacy on living in accordance to expressed principles over more blatant actions in self-interest is, in actuality, self-interest as one is acting to maximize one's highest order desire.  But still, I would draw a distinction between acting in accordance with principle and acting in accordance with personal self-interest.

 

184 That term, personal self-interest, I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think she's right, EoJ.  I think you're looking for "Enlightened Self-Interest."  If you substitute that phrase into your post, y'all are arguing the same side (IMO).

185 No tax cut is truly permanent, thus they are all tax holidays.
Tax increases, on the other hand....

186

Gosh, did the Tea Party just send Boehner out to die? With friends like these...

“This is a ‘Braveheart’ moment. You, Mr. Speaker, are our William Wallace,” Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.), a member of the Tea Party Caucus, said on the Fox News Channel.

http://is.gd/Lzpq9f

187 Now, it is possible to argue that placing primacy on living in accordance to expressed principles over more blatant actions in self-interest is, in actuality, self-interest as one is acting to maximize one's highest order desire. That's what I'm arguing. And just to further illustrate my point, how about I offer you a brand-new pair of velvety-soft, yet shiny red leather, thigh-high stompy boots if you'll agree with me? With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant.

188 So we have this floundering marxist queen that's in the process of destroying our republic leading in some polls.  This should NOT be happening, except we have these so called Republicans seemingly busting their balls to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  It's effin' insane.

189

" explain to me why we refer to them as the "Bush Tax Cuts" and not the "Bush Tax Holiday"

Most people who use that language are leftists, Democrats, and the supposedly "moderates" who elected Obama. Who is this "we" you are referring to?

 

190 “This is a ‘Braveheart’ moment. You, Mr. Speaker, are our William Wallace,” Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-Ga.), a Ex-cellent

191 I think she's right, EoJ.  I think you're looking for "Enlightened Self-Interest."  If you substitute that phrase into your post, y'all are arguing the same side (IMO). I'm just a simple grunt. Your multi-syllabic words frighten and confuse me!

192 If it's any consolation, I'll feel *really* bad about my treachery later. I mean, like, really really bad. per ardua ad astra - and all that.

193 So you trade nothing for something and you still say no?

Actually, the "Deal" on the Keystone Pipeline is just that they'll Instruct the President to approve or reject it in 30 days (or 60, something like that).  At which point, when he doesn't, they'll...  do nothing, because we know Senate Democrats won't do anything to him.

So, for a Net Economic Loss, we would be getting- nothing.

So, yes, I oppose a 2 month extension.

I'm open to discussion of a 1 year extension, as that should not be a net drain on the economy.  But the Senate Dems seem intent on taking that off the table.

194

I think she's right, EoJ. 

Ahhh, such sweet music to my ears. 

I think you're looking for "Enlightened Self-Interest."  If you substitute that phrase into your post, y'all are arguing the same side (IMO).

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

I still want the boots. 

195

I think you're looking for "Enlightened Self-Interest." 

Is that code for cold beer and hot, easy women?

I believe there is a persuasive case for making that a high order level principle, yes. 

196 Actually, the "Deal" on the Keystone Pipeline is just that they'll Instruct the President to approve or reject it in 30 days (or 60, something like that).  At which point, when he doesn't, they'll...  do nothing, because we know Senate Democrats won't do anything to him.

I think he has 60 days to approve it or prove it hazardous.  If he does nothing in 60 days, it's considered approved.

197 Boner should have made sure he had the votes before approving of any Senate deal. The fact that we have these temporary tax cuts and other shit is killing business in America. No certainty of anything. All this can pretty much be laid at the feet of them Dems. To bad the Repubs get blamed.

198

@ 189  I am against that on principle due to concerns about such things as the stability of contract law........

The Obama administration has already destroyed this stability. Just ask anyone who held "GM FullySecured Bonds" before Obama Nationalized GM. The conversion of these secured bonds to stock warrents of far less value was outright theft, and contravened all previous contract law of the past few hundred years.

Do a bit of research, and find out just how bad this really was.

http://zapit.nu/SCOAMF

199 Interjecting some information here that might shed some light on the House decision.

Boehner had agreed to the Senate deal because the White House would have to decide on the pipeline,  which we all thought would pretty much force Obama to placate the unions and go ahead with it.

HOWEVER, Ed Henry put a bunch of tweets up on Twitter 2 days ago which said that the people at the White House had pretty much decided that Obama had already taken the political hit on the pipeline and would not be hurt further by stopping it.

If you ask me,  that was seen by House members as a sign that going with the 2-month thing was NOT going to get the pipeline started, and that is why they voted against the 2-month extension.

200  I've never taken a 10-year holiday.

Eeer, hit this, pfwip.

201 If he does nothing in 60 days, it's considered approved.

Okay, so he accepts the first argument Green Peace or the Sierra Club can give him not to OK the pipeline, and he rejects it.  Then the MFM still slobbers all over his knob while downplaying what the Pipeline would have done.  Still not anything to rejoice over- and certainly not worth accepting a Net Drain on the Economy.

You force Obama's hand.

No, you don't.  Okies, in general, and a few other "Fly-over-Country" types know about the Keystone Pipeline.  Most of the rest of the country doesn't.  So it's not some Political Excalibur, here.  All he has to do is seize on some excuse (this one would play really well with the media: "There are still serious questions about the environmental impact of the pipeline.  If we had more time to review them, we might be able to settle them, but based on the timeline insisted upon by Republicans, we do not have time for the proper investigation.  Therefore, I cannot, in good conscience, approve this project.") and then reject it.

So you've forced him to, what?  Make a nothing decision that won't get any play?

And if you accept a 2 month extension and THEN another one as that runs out, you're just increasing the costs of compliance, perhaps to the point that even the 1 year extension is a Net Drain on the Economy.

202 I think he has 60 days to approve it or prove it hazardous.  If he does nothing in 60 days, it's considered approved.

To quote myself from the previous thread:  He will just invoke the Precautionary Principle.  Something bad might happen and it would be bad, real bad, as bad as the EPA bureau-slugs can imagine.  The bill does not require that the reason be, er, reasonable.

203 Let's see, the economy didn't pick up with a payroll tax cut. Ergo the payroll tax cut did not have its intended effect. Ergo the tax cut should be cancelled. Fundamentally there was no net increase in spending from the tax cut. The $100 billion or so had to be borrowed. That money would have otherwise been borrowed by private businesses for investment.

204

Re: 2-month payroll tax cut

It must be nice to be a lawyer and not have to be someone who has to implement the crazy ideas of other lawyers and politicians. If passed, every payroll provider would have one week to modify, test, and deploy changes to the way paychecks are calculated. Brilliant.

205
  I swear it seems as though there's a perverse enjoyment floating around here in reference to the latest developments--as if they afford a kind of martyrdom.  Constant drumbeat of defeat and despair.

  It's Christmas, people--there is a reason for hope and celebration that transcends politics, you understand. Maybe a bit of perspective needs emphasizing?

  Now let the shredding commence.

206 I don't agree. This changes absolutely nothing. Everyone  knows this is bogus. This will not help him. Obama has already declared war against the middle-class...Remember he doesn't need the white middle class vote! So how in the hell do you win ????

207

Extending the payroll tax holiday is fast becoming yet another Ways & Means Committee hot potato, not unlike the AMT fix and the Medicare Doc fix. 

Keep kicking that can, boys.

208 To quote myself from the previous thread:  He will just invoke the Precautionary Principle.  Something bad might happen and it would be bad, real bad, as bad as the EPA bureau-slugs can imagine.  The bill does not require that the reason be, er, reasonable.

Posted by: toby928© at December 21, 2011 09:52 AM (iVgwk)

I haz a bad feeling about this.

209 The Republican Party is the Chicago Cubs of politics. If there is any way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory they will

210 >>But I guess as long as we have the watermelon commies in power that will never happen.
Posted by: Vic at December 21, 2011 08:35 AM (YdQQY)

You can consider "Watermelon Commies" stolen.

That'll be good for a few lib aneurysms Vic, you magnificent bastard.

211 Why worry about stupid people unable to understand the idiocy of a two-month extension? There ARE smart voters, and if you're smart, you'll think about them, not the morons you assume control the fate of America in 2012. You keep this crap up, and I will have to reevaluate Karl Rove as he always spoke well of the electorate. Maybe you pricks would rather be know-it-all curmudgeons rather than persuade voters why Democrats are evil, and if that's the case, you'll actually have a reason to be curmudgeonly someday rather than the ungrateful, ignorant tools of the media (see original post) you are now.

212 The people who voted based on what the Media tells them are going to vote Democrat.  Nothing the Republicans do (or don't do) is going to change that.

213

once again the GOP snatches defeat from the jaws of victory

*sigh*

214 Big deal, all this Bullshit over 1000 annual Tax credit. While the Politico's loot the country....For Trillions..
Clean house!!! Cry Boy Baynor to Sneaky Reed..
We need a complete douche of these Assholes
3 Card Monte anyone?

215

More proof the Tea Party is jumping the shark.

Too many amateurs in the kitchen.

I've give Boehner credit for deling with all these novices and yahoos.

216 224
I give Baynor an Award for Simulated Competence It is Rampant mental disorder in Washington.....

217 Posted by: JEA



FuckYou. You. Dunce. You.

218 The aurhor must think that Americans have short memories and/or stupid. We can see thst a two month fix is bull sh**. I applaud Speaker Boehner.

219 Democrat or Republican, when  practice incompetency and a Fraud whats the diff ?

220

Not the hill to die on
Overton window
Ignore the issue and focus on the politics
Blah, blah de blah blah

221 I think that a voter who shake a candidates hand(Gingrich) and then calls him a "fucking asshole" is the actual, real, true fucking asshole.

222 Rich white guys, STOP killing your families by putting them in your private airplane and flying them places. Good Lord, these are the only planes crashing in America these days and it happens way too often. Some jackoff wants to be a big shot and fly his family to the relatives this year in his own plane. Only the flight ends in pieces on a highway in New Jersey wiping out the whole family. STOP the madness!

223 Kim Jung Un is ENTIRELY rational and approachable. If you are approaching him with a 20-piece bucket from KFC that is. Listen to me Chubby..............DO NO EVIL.............like Google. See how they do it? There, I feel better about the whole thing now.

224 Is the poster dumb enough to believe that the R's would receive any credit for whatever they did? 

225 House GOP members are protesting that they passed a full one-year extension and nobody's paying attention to that.

Well, yeah, and they're right. The whole argument that dems are winning on this is based on the  fact that the media won't report the R's side of things, when will the Washington R's ever take a stand and start pointing out simple facts like that instead of caving because the media won't report their side of things? Apparently never, so cave it is, again.

226 230 I think that a voter who shake a candidates hand(Gingrich) and then calls him a "fucking asshole" is the actual, real, true fucking asshole.

Yep, and i don't even like Gingrich.

227

Personally I think it is refreshing that we have a Speaker who sometimes fails to get his troops in line. As opposed to Jackboot Nancy who corralled every vote for Obamacare and cost 63 of her members their seats.   Boehner is not that kind of person, he is making sure that all of his members have a voice even if it gets messy from time to time.  

All this jibber-jabber about who is winning the tactical battle this week is stupid.

228 Oh, and the Keystone thing is still a win because it is now a live issue in every Senate race this year.  Republicans got the senate Democrats on record as supporting Obama making a decision sooner rather than later.   Those red-state Democrats do not want to run on this thing and now they have to.

229 With regards to the payroll tax holiday deal, McConnell assumed that the House would accept the deal. Boehner held a teleconference with his members on Sunday advising they take the deal, but there was no guarantee they would. A number of House Republicans only voted for the House bill due to the sweeteners, which include reforms. After most of his members expressed their rejection of the deal*, he said no. He might have been able to pass the bill by relying on Democrats for a majority of votes but no one knows for sure. But when your majority leader, majority whip, conference chair, and rank-and-file strongly oppose a deal, it is potentially dangerous to try to twist their arms to support something, be they right or not.

*Many House Democrats did/do not like the two-month extension, despite their current displays of indignation.

230

A two-month payroll tax extension is indefensible.  No payroll system in the country can handle it without massive manual effort, which will in turn be rife with error, which in turn will cost money.  It took years (and countless programming hours) to get the FICA cap split in place back in the 90's; there's no way we can get a two-month payroll tax fix in place in a couple of weeks.

And please don't tell me a full-year extension is "inevitable".  It's not.  Nobody knows what will happen in two months.  That uncertainty is one of the primary negative pressures on the economy.  If you're going to have a year-long tax holiday, then vote the year-long holiday, and only the year-long holiday.  Anything less is asking to be taken advantage of.  People who count on the largesse of the Democrats or the common sense of Congress in general have been consistently disappointed.

That's just the argument against the two-month extension itself.  As far as I can tell, it's purely anti-Conservative and that's even before you include all the horrible baggage included in the bill.  As usual, what has happened is a perfectly good House bill goes to the Senate and the Senate crams it with crap.  The only difference this time is that instead of eating the lovely crap cannoli, the House (for the most part in the person of TEA Party Republicans) told the Senate to shove it.

Conservatives should be happy. Conservatives should be emailing their representatives and patting the backs of those who held firm and excoriating those who didn't.  As to this being a strange hill to defend, I don't really care which is the first, as long as there is a first, and up until this point there hasn't been one.

On to 2012, folks. Limit the damage until we get there.  No more crapwiches.  Obama will not get re-elected because of a two-month tax gift in January, unless we continue to harp about it amongst ourselves.

231 Haven't read all the comments but I wonder if the WSJ writer understands that the payroll cut applies only to the employee--the employer match is remains at 6.2%. There is NO incentive to hire any further employees in this equation.

232

karenm> Haven't read all the comments but I wonder if the WSJ writer understands that the payroll cut applies only to the employee--the employer match is remains at 6.2%. There is NO incentive to hire any further employees in this equation.

Yeah, I wondered that myself.  Seems I've seen more than one comment referring to employers, and this doesn't affect them at all.

Not only that, but in Illinois they used this as an excuse to raise the income tax 2%, saying they would offset each other.  Except that when the payroll tax goes back to normal, we'll still have the higher income tax.  So typical of the Democrat mindset.

233 And here's a great example of just how stupid R's are, instead of simply saying that everyone on their side is all for a one year payroll tax holiday, here's what the genius R's  in the Senate say. It makes you wonder whose side their on. Are they really so feeble minded they just can't say that it's the D's who are blocking the one year payroll holiday? Yes, they are.

234 Agree with you ASJDaddie. If bad Beltway press = Republican defeat then we are never going to "win". The House already solved the problem. The Senate proposal won't work. If Republican pundits can't figure that as a "win" then give their bandwidth to journalism interns.

235

Notice that it's the ever popular "anonymous aide" saying that, booger?  What else do you expect from CNN?  But we should all be flooding our reps with that message: the Republican House passed a year-long holiday, the Democrat Senate cut it by nearly 85%.  Just tweet that over and over.

236 Posted by: AJsDaddie at December 21, 2011 01:30 PM (dyjs6)

Exactly.

237 The Senate Rs had made a deal with the Devil and his sons. Next five years are going to be at best a farce. Have faith that God has a plan and everything will turn out well. (I'm a multiverse guy. As stated in the bible, "for God all things are possible.")

May we always eat well and live comfortably indoors.

238 Okay, I've read all the comments and here goes.  Some of this is obvious but there seems to be much controversy on the rest:
  
I get the impression the GOP representatives honestly thought they were doing the best thing when they voted to reject the Senate's two-month extension.  Problem was, the relatively inexperienced tea-party reps lacked the experience to recognize how much the MFM was gonna spin this to make the GOP look bad.

Specifically, my local radio news reported that "House republicans voted to kill a two-month extension of unemployment insurance [sic]."  No mention that they had offered a one-year plan in its place.

Second:  Does anyone really believe Boehner "gave McConnell the okay on the two-month deal"?  I seriously doubt that, because given the Dem majority in the senate there was nothing McConnell could have done to block the senate version. 

Third:  I agree with whoever noted that a third of all Americans think socialism is great and would vote for Satan himself if he promised more "free shit."  And another third of the electorate, though smart enough to know socialism sucks, is too disinterested in the inside-baseball details of all this political maneuvering to be involved.  So--as the MFM knows--whoever lies first and loudest wins the majority of public support.

All GOP congress-dips should be telling the truth about the competing offers at every news conference and gathering.  I believe a majority of voters would like for congress to do the right thing for a change, but they have no idea what the choices are at any moment, thanks to our lying, socialist-loving media.

That is all.

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