1 I have no tolerance for racist conspiracy theorists with disastrous foreign policy and economic views.

Pick, picky.

2 In b4 vic.

3 I was first once.  It caused great consternation.

Challenge word - SCoaMF

Password - fuck the corporate media

4 Challenge word - SCoaMF

Posted by: jc at December 09, 2011 06:53 AM (ufJKx)

Is that a valid word for my game?

5 I think Rick Perry got the better deal there.

6
Jack Cashill at American Thinker exposing more Obama fraud and deceit.

7 I hope Perry makes a comeback. I think alot of the problems he's having is from the back surgery

8
Miss David Brooks at the NYT sticks it to roly-poly with The Gingrich Tragedy.

9 Jack Cashill at American Thinker exposing more Obama fraud and deceit.

Posted by: Doctor Fish ( Posting from Mom's Computer in Texas) at December 09, 2011 06:55 AM (ndqJC) 

More fraud and deceit?..never heard of it.

10
Muslim Clerics Warning:  Cucumbers Too Sexy For Women

11 ***For the record, like some of the other cobs, I will not be voting for Paul even if he is the Republican candidate.***

Remind me again why Ron Paul shouldn't run Third Party?

12
Straight from the American liberal handbook comes this ditty:

Psychopaths are just misunderstood....and can be cured. 

13 Perry's latest ad is the end for me. He wants to reopen all the social stuff, like prayer in school. We're drowning in debt and red tape and he thinks school prayers are the solution. Plus the courts have consistently ruled against it, with certain exceptions.
 
I even gave you a pump Perry in the Hot Gas poll -- no longer. It looks like the amphibian. I'm not too happy about but there it is.

14

Ohhhh!   Ohhhh!  I'm in the top  10 today.  Wish I had something pertinent to provide besides "SCOAMF".   But then again, it does require reapeating. 

 

SCOAMF!

SCOAMF!

SCOAMF!

15 Morning all.

16

OOOPs.  There goes that Top Ten.  Oh well.  If I could type faster without making mistakes I'd have nailed it.

 

17 I like Santorum and understand his point, however, securing an endorsement from Trump effectively assures he won't be a candidate ... allowing him to moderate a debate while he's making noises of running third party is no such thing.

18 Remind me again why Ron Paul shouldn't run Third Party?

Herr Doktor already said that he wouldn't -- probably to blunt suspicions that he'd hold the election hostage to his own whims. Kinda like you just suggested, actually.

19 Malkin has an article at Human Events showing ties between Blago and Holder, and Bill Richardson and Holder. The man is dirty.

20

I too would not vote for Paul. Obviously, I wouldn't vote for Obama, so in that scenario I vote for the Constitution Party candidate.

I like Perry, Santorum and Bachmann. But if my choices come down to Gingrich and Romney, I have to say, I must go with Romney. How Gingrich has come to be seen as Mr. Conservative is beyond me.

My only guess is people just assume he must be more conservative than Romney. He is not. Everything to both calls for a big government solution(I find this reminiscent of 2008 when Romney was "the conservative option" to McCain. How quickly we forget.)

 I would vote for either if he wins the nomination, but Romney v. Gingrich is just a choice of uptight v. erratic, and I'll take uptight if those are my choices.

21 People, people, people, if there is one thing I've learned from listening to folks WHO GET PAID TO SAY STUFF, it's just business. Paul's racism, Perry's slide to the right, heck, even Obama's us vs. them speeches. Relax, it's just business. Maybe not Sandusky level "hey kid, let's go take a shower" business, but business nonetheless. Don't take it personally.

22 Hey Dr Fish!!! Glad to see you in sunny SAT! Lunch at 12:30 at the Rim, Stone Werks. Me and another Moronette will be toasting you. (Not literally of course)

23 Perry's latest ad is the end for me. He wants to reopen all the social stuff, like prayer in school. We're drowning in debt and red tape and he thinks school prayers are the solution. Plus the courts have consistently ruled against it, with certain exceptions.

Which ad? The "Strong" ad is the one that offends me, for the reason happyfeet gives here:

no it was really bigoty to juxtapose gay soldiers – people what are serving their country – with children not being able to celebrate christmas I think – that being one of the rights those gay soldiers Rick Perry scorns are fighting for

24 Oh and thanks Vic for the tips on posting links but still having trouble. Argh...

25 Yep we just dont have any candidate worth a crap in this cycle. We are screwed. Guess I had better get my ammo and food stuff ready for the apocalypse.

26

THE Iowa Sec of State???  Where is the flaming skull for cryin out loud?

Wow.  I'm sold.  And off the Buddy Roemer Train.

27 Damn, this place is just empty without Vic.

VIC, COME HOME, VIC!

28 Ron Paul - disastrous economic views?  A new ignorant low for the Constitution pedophiles here at AOS.

29 Herr Doktor already said that he wouldn't -- probably to blunt suspicions that he'd hold the election hostage to his own whims. Kinda like you just suggested, actually.

I'm a libertarian, but not a Ron Paul libertarian. I'm suspicious of his racial and Semetic views based on his newsletter and other actions (although I also think he may have genuinely reformed by now). His foreign policy is ludicrous and dangerous. That utterly disqualifies him for President right there, full stop.

However, like me, he's a pro-life libertarian. I strongly agree with that. Indeed, I can't think of a good religious reason not to abort children en masse, since they could hardly have sinned in the womb and, if the worldview is correct, I don't see how this doesn't send them straight to heaven. Or something. So while I'm glad religious people join me, I've never quite understood why (unless, deep down, most people don't really, actually, literally believe their faith, which, wrongly or rightly, I suspect is so).

But secularly, with but one life to live, I think it should be up to an individual whether to end their life or not (and they should have that right, by the way). Babies should have the right to life.

Anyway, whatever you think of Ron Paul, you have to admit he's presented his libertarian views within the Republican party since joining, and hasn't run third party. He's kept his word on that. I respect him for that.

30 25 Yep

Head north a few miles, I got the ammo part covered.
Anybody but obama is still better than obama.

31 Well I hope Vic's absence isn't do to those shitty poison treatments but because he's sleeping in after a night of sippin whiskey on the porch (and yelling at young punks to get off his damn lawn).

32 Last night I went to McDonald's. Driving thru, I saw a large fire truck, a small fire truck, and an ambulance treating a woman on the ground with a scraped knee. Why do they always have so much equipment respond to each call or an ambulance? It seems like such a waste.

33 Oh, and Santorum labels the other candidates "hypocrites" for declining to appear on Trump's Very Special Episode of the Apprentice.


Yes, because having Brian Williams ask Rick Perry, "How do you sleep at night?" is so much more desirable for a debate.

Betcha Trump will talk about what everyone complains that the MFM debates don't.  

34 11 ***For the record, like some of the other cobs, I will not be voting for Paul even if he is the Republican candidate.***


Purist..

35 I don't know why people complain about the candidates. I see a candidate for every type of Republican, just not every type of libertarian.

36 Help me out, DIAF?

37 mmm. Rick Santorum is a dweeb. And I wish Perry would use the economy. He's be-clowning himself now.

38

Yeah, hopefully Vic is just sleeping in.

39

I have it from a reliable source that Michele Bachman, when/if she drops out of the race has told Gov. Romney that she will endorse him. I also heard from this same source close to the Romney campaign that Christie, Rubio, Pawlenty and Bachman are all on the list of possible VP picks.

If you've been watching it seems to me that a few other people might  have some knowledge of this information as well; such as Ann Coulter and Chris Christie himself, they have both been going full press for Mitt.

40

The GOP has some pretty good leverage over Ron Paul to prevent a 3d-party run: his son.

A run by Ron Paul would kill any meaningful position for Rand in the Senate, if not his seat.

41

I'm your resident Aussie lurker and I want to know what you've done with Vic????

My little thing before I hop into bed is read Vic's news headlines from over there - now I can't go to bed and I'll have to stay up all night......

 

42 dieinafire

43 Die In A Fire

44 Gosh, it looks like the Apprentice debate is going to be just a conversation between the Donald and the Newt. 

45 #30 Okay agreed anyone but Obama - we just are not going to have the perfect candidate, and because we tear down the more conservative ones we are going to get stuck with Mitts or Newt. Probably Mitts. I am not thrilled with Perry's new ads either, but he would be better than Mitts by God. Ah well, there you go. Anytime you want to have a Texas Moron hook up, let me know. I would love to buy Dave in Texas a beer.

46

Muslim Clerics Warning: Cucumbers Too Sexy For Women

Posted by: Doctor Fish ( Posting from Mom's Computer in Texas) at December 09, 2011 07:08 AM (ndqJC)

 

Remind me why it is that we tolerate those scum?  They should be rounded up wholesale and, at the very least, deported. 

47 Anyway, whatever you think of Ron Paul, you have to admit he's presented his libertarian views within the Republican party since joining, and hasn't run third party. He's kept his word on that. I respect him for that.

Ron Paul ran as a Libertarian for president in 1988.  This was after his first stint as a Republican Congressman when he left the party.

48 Posted by: spypeach at December 09, 2011 07:37 AM (hyUyU)

Bachmann endorsing Romney? uh oh, now he'll get two extra voters!

49

23 Perry's latest ad is the end for me.

Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 07:21 AM (YiE0S)

 

I agree 100%.  ItÂ’s not that I care what his views are on social issues, but I do care that someone could be stupid enough to run an ad like this.  What the fuck could he possibly be thinking? 

 

Luckily, it will help the cause by pulling primary votes away from Newt insuring no one gains an insurmountable momentum early on.  Keep spreading those delegates around so a brokered convention gets us the candidate we deserve.

50 ABO  Embrace the Suck.

51 Gosh, it looks like the Apprentice debate is going to be just a conversation between the Donald and the Newt. 

And Santorum. He hasn't been given much of a shot in this contest, and while I disagree with some of his (and Newt's, for that matter) social views, I think he's a serious, levelheaded guy, who obviously loves his family and his country. He deserves a forum.

52 #41 = We are wondering where he is too. Hope all is okay. A day without Vic is like a day without sunshine....

53
Our SCOAMF is handing the handling of the air war in the Afghanistan - Pakistan border region over to Hillary.

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

54 Actually, I changed my mind. I will work against Ron Paul.  But if he's the not-Obama, I will vote for him.

55
Hey Dr Fish!!! Glad to see you in sunny SAT! Lunch at 12:30 at the Rim, Stone Werks. Me and another Moronette will be toasting you. (Not literally of course)

Yes, chilly in SAT but great to be back.  Sorry you have lunch plans as I was thinking about the Blanco Cafe today.  Dropping mom off at the store at 11:30 where she will attend a birthday party for 90-year old twins.  Mom is 99.  Maybe we can make the Mexican food gig another day.

56 I agree 100%.  ItÂ’s not that I care what his [Rick Perry's] views are on social issues, but I do care that someone could be stupid enough to run an ad like this.  What the fuck could he possibly be thinking?

I was quoting GnuBreed when I said that, but I'm glad at least a few people agree with me. I went on at length how this is bad politics on a previous thread, and offered several better alternatives he could have done.

57 "Rick Perry got Dokota Meyer" I'm Number One according to Hot Ass, you know!

58

And I wish Perry would use the economy.

Have you seen Perry's policy vids? He's been laying out his stance on many issues (like a Flat Tax and a Balanced Budget Amendment), which the MFM dutifully ignores. His observation about gays and Christmas is pretty accurate: one is being promoted over the other by the Left and has been for a while now. For a party that proclaims to be all for inclusion, they're pretty exclusive of traditional American values, even to the point of outright hostility.

And name me one thing that prayer harms.

Anyone?

Bueller?

59 DIAF? Die in a fall?

60

I understand why the perpetually-outraged hyper-emos on the Left would be aplopectic about Perry's ad, but not why anybody on the Right would be.

You might think it was a bad ad, but I don't know why it would elicit such emotion.

61 DIAF=die in a fire. Re: Perry's "strong" ad: egad, you mean a candidate for the Republican nomination is PANDERING to Christian voters?? Why, whoever heard of such a thing before? That's it, I'm voting for the guy who isn't opposed to gays serving openly in the military. Which one is that now?

62

The Ghost of Christmas Past

On this date in 1975 President Ford signed a $2.3 billion seasonal loan-authorization that officials of New York City and State said would prevent a city default.

63

You might think it was a bad ad, but I don't know why it would elicit such emotion.

Posted by: Jingo at December 09, 2011 07:46 AM (mdwWR)

For one, Iowa is democrat state. They will go for Obama in 2012. For him not to go on tv and talk about economics is just stupid. When you're low in the polls, your best option is to be seen talking about stuff that matters,

64  A new ignorant low for the Constitution pedophiles here at AOS.

Yeah, the Constitution never gave me a boner past 1797 or so...

65

52 Yes - it's just not the same without Vic leading off with all the news of the day from the US

Oh well, I'll just have another glass of wine and wait for Vic!

Anyway it's almost Saturday here - a few minutes before midnight...

66 I will vote for whoever gets the GOP nod.  I am not a Republican.  I am a conservative, both politically and theologically.  The SCoaMF MUST, repeat MUST, be stopped.

67 "Psychopaths are just misunderstood....and can be cured."

Well good.

I'm glad someone's fucking working on it.

(Obviously psychopathy, by the way, is just another evolutionary survival and replication strategy tried by our genes. There are different personalities that, if everyone had one, would be bad for our survival, but a mixed representation increases our chances as a social species. Most psychopaths aren't hard core criminals, and many aren't criminals at all, although many, many hard core criminals are psychopaths. There is increasingly strong evidence from science that robust moral responsibility, free will, is an illusion anyway. Right or wrong on that, if there are things we can do on the "nurture" side of the "genes, environment, and stochasticism" equation to reduce vicious behavior, I don't have a problem with that, and you shouldn't either.)

68 Keep spreading those delegates around so a brokered convention gets us the candidate we deserve.

Posted by: jwest

...............

That's about what I am hoping for at this point.

69  @Flapjackmaka, first, he's trying to appeal to Republican caucus voters, not Iowa Democrats, and, second, thinking an ad should address other topics (as if he were literally doing nothing in the state except running one ad) hardly merits "THAT'S IT!" outrage.

70 Monty's DOOM threads have been skimping on the Doom lately. At the rate he's going, he'll be throwing in updates on the state of the Cain marriage. Perhaps Doom has taken a holiday?

71

Anyway it's almost Saturday here - a few minutes before midnight...

Posted by: aussie
..............
Where in Aussieland you from?

72
I favored Perry once but you gottta get over it when your candidate is done for.

Unfortunately, that leaves me with Newt because I cannot, ever, under any circumstance vote for Romney.

73

Ron Paul - disastrous economic views?

Yes.  Riddle me how to run a 14 trillion dollar economy on a couple of hundred billion in gold reserves, gold bug.

And generally ignoring the security of the world because one doesn't like the Joooos is not a basis for a stable economic system.  Linkages--Paulbots draw them everywhere except where they actually exist.

74 Yall read Ace's arguing in the F&F thread? I been thinking. What if we had an agency whose purpose was to regulate and enforce certain things, maybe we could call it the 'BATF', and we did not have an agency whose purpose was to enforce constitutional compliance with, lets for arguments sake say, oh, the second amendment. We could call that agency that does not exist the 'Justice Department'.
Perhaps over time, the agenda of such an agency would get exposed on occasion. Maybe here, maybe in Waco, maybe along an international border. Who knows.
It may not be a grand conspiracy, it may just be what nearly unlimited power looks like. It may be what having no advocate for constitutional constraint looks like.

75

Anyway it's almost Saturday here - a few minutes before midnight...

Posted by: aussie at December 09, 2011 07:52 AM (PMAH2)

Well mate, while waiting for Vic, how about  Bar-B-Q'ing that annoying little Australian GEICO  lizard that's on the telly every few minutes. 

76

You might think it was a bad ad, but I don't know why it would elicit such emotion.

Posted by: Jingo at December 09, 2011 07:46 AM (mdwWR)

 

Because at this moment the country isnÂ’t too worried about gays in the military and prayer in schools.  The ad is ridiculous pander to bible thumpers in Iowa that shows people across the country that Perry would waste time and effort on social issues instead of focusing on the economy. 

 

Like I said, I donÂ’t care what his views are on social issues.  My objection is that he lacks the political instincts to know what to say to win a national election.  Just like his bungled attack on Romney in one of the debates, he doesnÂ’t seem to realize how his “strategy” will play out across the country. 

77 "You might think it was a bad ad, but I don't know why it would elicit such emotion."

Either of two reasons: Love of people under arms protecting us. And respect for our fellow human beings who are homosexual.

78

From the official White House transcript:

So while it is not yet Hanukkah, letÂ’s give thanks for our blessings, for being together to celebrate this wonderful holiday season.  And we never need an excuse for a good party.  (Cue: Laughter.) 

Fore!

SCOAMF

79 Behold the power of McRib!

80 I understand why the perpetually-outraged hyper-emos on the Left would be aplopectic about Perry's ad, but not why anybody on the Right would be. It's a mix. Some are offended on libertarian principle. I prioritize differently, but I can understand that point of view. Others, like Random, are transparently false-flag trolls tossing monkey wrenches into the works to whip up discontent with our candidates. Go watch some of the youtubes of toddlers with chocolate-smeared faces denying any knowledge of what happened to the cookies. It's just like that.

81
F & F related activities?

82
My Firefox UURL shortener ad-on seems to give some people 404s, so here's the story using TinyUrl:

Our SCOAMF is handing the handling of the air war in the Afghanistan - Pakistan border region over to Hillary.

Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

83 VDH has a lengthy article up on the immoral aspects of illegal immigration. It's worth a read.

84 "Keep spreading those delegates around so a brokered convention gets us the candidate we deserve."

You can't count on this. Unlike the Democratic Party, GOP rules make this method of selecting a candidate nearly impossible (multiple votes aren't impossible, but a brokered convention essentially is).

Full disclosure: I support Newt.

85 Funny you should call me Australian. My favorite daydream is to travel to Sydney inside a hot brunette named Francesca. WOAH! Where did THAT come from?

86 Yesterday on Twitter a reporter in Iowa posted that Paul had said that "9/11 was greeted with glee by the Bush administration because that gave them an excuse to invade Iraq."

I cannot tell you how offensive I found that statement. It is a damned lie,  as anyone who watched the coverage of President Bush, VP Cheney, and others in the administration would know.  I don't think I could vote for Paul, either.  Plus I don't want that crank on my TV for the next 4 years.

87 And generally ignoring the security of the world because one doesn't like the Joooos is not a basis for a stable economic system.

Circa isn't the only one who feels better.

88
Hillary is on the move.

I will settle for her over the JEF. It is that bad.

89

"And name me one thing that prayer harms."

Nothing really, however:

"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
- Anon.

90

Most psychopaths aren't hard core criminals, and many aren't criminals at all, although many, many hard core criminals are psychopaths.

Those that aren't hard core criminals become politicians.

And the difference is, what, again?

 

91 Will somebody get this damned lizard out of my undies?

92 Poetic Justice Update: Traitorous PFC Bradley Manning, who is in military prison instead of enjoying the All You Can Eat Dick Feast in the Army courtesy of our robed masters, begins trial soon. Keep in mind, his disgruntlement stemmed from not being able to be openly gay in the Army. Which is now legal. Fuck you, kid. Enjoy a lifetime of hard labor at Leavenworth.

93 71 I'm in Sydney, out in the suburbs without a view of the Sydney Harbour and the Opera House - our view is a bus stop, a road and more houses..

94 "Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
- Anon.


Does a strawman get stronger when wrapped in an aphorism?

95

“Unlike the Democratic Party, GOP rules make this method of selecting a candidate nearly impossible”

Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 08:07 AM (YiE0S)

 

Actually, recent changes in the GOP rules make it far more likely than before.  Salon and Politico have run articles in the past week outlining the changes and how they could leave candidates without enough votes to take the nomination on the first ballot.  After that, anything can happen.

 

Also, where is it written that we need to follow the rules?  When the democrats knew they needed to dump Bob Torricelli in New Jersey after he had the nomination, they just said “fuck it, weÂ’re running someone else”.  DoesnÂ’t anyone here ever get tired of getting screwed when we follow the rules to the letter and the other side plays to win?

96 I will settle for her over the JEF. It is that bad.

Posted by: sTevo at December 09, 2011 08:09 AM (VMcEw)

No thanks. She's a f*cking Progressive by her own words in the 2008 debate; we'd be getting the same shit in a different bottle.

97 Put up or shut up, Gabby:  Provide a verifiable citation for one, just one,  racist quote of Ron Paul.

98 Does anyone seriously think Paul has a chance in hell of being the nominee?

99 75 I don't think we have that GEICO ad on here - that bad is it? We will be BBQing later on today - birthday party for some rellies so after a few drinks a lizard in amongst the BBQed calamari and prawns might not be noticed

100 "Actually, recent changes in the GOP rules make it far more likely than before.  Salon and Politico have run articles in the past week outlining the changes and how they could leave candidates without enough votes to take the nomination on the first ballot.  After that, anything can happen."

Oh. If it's not too much trouble, can you kindly post a link to one of those articles? It sounds interesting.

101 Why does Obama hate Jewish holidays?

102 All Romney need do to destroy Newt is run the Newt & Pelosi on a Couch commercial, over and over. No editing or voice over necessary. That commercial was... troublesome. To put it mildly.

103 People talk about the "Chicago Way" when they discuss corruption. The whole world is like that. We need a candidate that will tell us the truth: we are broke and are being politically and financially ripped off. Where are the debates about crony capitalism? Domestic energy production? Entitlement attrition? Shrinking government? Cutting taxes?

104 Yesterday on Twitter a reporter in Iowa posted...

a reporter twitter post?

gotta be true, especially if it substantiates a bias.

I cannot tell you how offensive I found that statement.

As would I.

Be more interested in hearing it from the horse's mouth.

Ron Paul isn't alone in finding revised accounts predictably boorish.

105 That's OK Gabe, more people express that sentiment about Romney and Gingrich than Paul. Obama will serve another term and do by Executive order what he can't do legislatively. Thanks for playing. Come again.

106 94 "Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer." - Anon. Does a strawman get stronger when wrapped in an aphorism? Posted by: toby928© at December 09, 2011 08:14 AM (GTbGH) Because those two hands working make you free.

107 Pontiac is gone, but the FIREBIRD lives on. http://tinyurl.com/6vdc6ft

108 #101  Minuteman.  Drudge showing him lighting ALL the Hannukah candles TWO WEEKS EARLY (he will be in Hawaii when the actual holiday happens) is just so annoying and brings up this little question:

Why didn't he move the date of the Eid feast for his convenience?

109 I'm in Sydney, out in the suburbs without a view of the Sydney Harbour and the Opera House - our view is a bus stop, a road and more houses.. Posted by: aussie
.........
Still sounds nice.. always wanted to visit Sydney..

I awoke to our first snowfall this morning..  just a dusting really, but there will be loads more to come before spring.

110 Jews dont even pay enough attention to Hanukkah as much as SCOAMF. He just wants a party.

111 Random if you want to ridicule people for not understanding their religious beliefs you shouldn't do it by demonstrating your ignorance on the matter. Just saying.

112 Well, off to work all! laters!

113 #104  Yeah,  I just make stuff up because I hate Ron Paul.  Believe it or not,  I am not going to waste my morning going through Iowa papers.  If he said it,  it will pop up shortly in the news.  If he didn't say it,  then sorry for reporting something untrue.

114 The Paulians don't want to admit that the old coot is just a self-promoter out to profit by milking their fringe.

115 I didn't get up this morning to get pissed off before work but loser trolls here so early are making it happen. Who reads Salon and Politico everyday and then thinks they are some authority on anything?
Who, in full disclosure, states progressive love and then tosses out some fuckin quote about a thousand hands in prayer? Ask a Roman about that shit.
And fuck hilary, the alinsky understudy. Have a crappy day. I am going to work.

116 Why does Obama hate Jewish holidays?

Au contraire. Obama is a vacation addict SCOAMF. There isn't a single holiday he wouldn't use as reason to skip work or insult someone for the hell of it.

117 Rand Paul tricked Hannity into letting him come on to announce the "breaking news" he supports his Lunatic Dad for president. I don't trust Rand.

118 108 #101 Minuteman. Drudge showing him lighting ALL the Hannukah candles TWO WEEKS EARLY (he will be in Hawaii when the actual holiday happens) is just so annoying and brings up this little question: Why didn't he move the date of the Eid feast for his convenience? Posted by: Miss Marple at December 09, 2011 08:22 AM (GoIUi) Because that would be blasphemous towards Mohammett (PB&J) of Medina, profit of Allah, interpreter of dreams, and diddler of little girls.

119 So Vic is among the missing and it's Friday so no DOOM thread...does this mean I have to go have a real life? Scary.

120 I just make stuff up
113
Not so, Miss Marple. But it's the nature of propagandists to do such, and the nature of the public to be swayed by their own bias. Reporters are salesmen who frequently fabricate stories according to their own designs, by mutating a kernel to produce the desired affect.

121 After Super Tuesday we will be left with Newt and Rick. Rick will eventually defeat Newt. Rick clobbers Ebola. This is the best "eman drinks alcohol to tolerate 2012" outcome I can foresee.

122

None of this election stuff matters because the CIA has already thrown a coup according to Paul.

Also, that whole save the union Civil War thing?  Lincoln should not have done it, don't you know.

Hey look, HEROIN!!!!

 

123 Others, like Random, are transparently false-flag trolls tossing monkey wrenches into the works to whip up discontent with our candidates. Thank you for articulating that. I don't think it would carry as much weight coming from me. I have also noted his concern.

124 "Random if you want to ridicule people for not understanding their religious beliefs you shouldn't do it by demonstrating your ignorance on the matter."

Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus?

If Christianity is true, and if aborted and otherwise too young to accept Jesus children go to heaven, then abortion may be evil for the perpetrator, a violation of "Divine Command" morality theory and Godly prohibition against murder, but it's a sweet, sweet deal for the aborted child. And it's actually one hell of a noble sacrifice to go to Hell personally to bring so many more children to Heaven than otherwise would have been the case (as life has a corrupting effect, to say the least, reducing odds people will make it there).

If, on the other hand, aborted and innocent young children get denied even an opportunity for Heaven because someone killed them, or there was an accident, well that kind of sucks.

125

Morning, all!

Just got to read the "love letter" Ace posted about last night.  Oh dear Lord.  Oh. Dear. Lord.

Who said romance is dead?

In other news, it's Friday!  What will be this week's massive document drop from our corrupt administration?  Something related to F&F?  Or will another Solyndra rear its ugly head in time to be completely eclipsed by the weekend?  Questions, questions...

126

I don't trust Rand.

Fruit.  Tree.

In this case, literally.

127 but lines must be drawn: Agree. Newt Romneycare and Mitt the Lizard are on the other side of the line for me. Along w RP.

128 Perry to campaign in 42 cities all December in Iowa.

129 "Sorry  -- its a target ad."

It's a gratuitously offensive and unnecessarily bad target ad. They could have made a good one instead, and I outlined several ways how on a previous thread.

130 Perry/Rubio 2012?

131 More than 100 Occupy Wall Street demonstrators stormed the set for “Law & Order: Special Victims Unit” across from the Manhattan State Supreme Courthouse, shutting down production of an OWS-themed episode. They probably cost a few more people their jobs. These OWS scum are on a roll

132 Aside from doing it 2 weeks early just to get it done before taking vacation, lighting all the Hanukkah candles at once certainly misses the point of the celebration, the miraculously extended period of light from a limited oil supply during dire times. No?

133 "Just got to read the "love letter" Ace posted about last night.  Oh dear Lord.  Oh. Dear. Lord."

Oh that was about the funniest thing ever. I think I'm going to send that to every woman I know, just for the hell of it, to get a few LOLs,

134 125 "Random if you want to ridicule people for not understanding their religious beliefs you shouldn't do it by demonstrating your ignorance on the matter." Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus? If Christianity is true, and if aborted and otherwise too young to accept Jesus children go to heaven, then abortion may be evil for the perpetrator, a violation of "Divine Command" morality theory and Godly prohibition against murder, but it's a sweet, sweet deal for the aborted child. And it's actually one hell of a noble sacrifice to go to Hell personally to bring so many more children to Heaven than otherwise would have been the case (as life has a corrupting effect, to say the least, reducing odds people will make it there). If, on the other hand, aborted and innocent young children get denied even an opportunity for Heaven because someone killed them, or there was an accident, well that kind of sucks. Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 08:35 AM (YiE0S) Random, doublin' down on the ignorance.

135

109 Snow! How lovely - my daughter and her husband will be moving to the US soon ( their business customers are all there) so I'm looking forward to seeing snow - we do have snow here in the Aussie Alps (hills) but as we're not skiers we never go there

It's a bit expensive to have a holiday here - after visiting Europe last year, it was a shock to compare the cost of living with here - we are truly being ripped off - you would be shocked at the prices we pay for things here - eg petrol is double the price that you pay

 

 

 

136 Indeed, I can't think of a good religious reason not to abort children en masse, since they could hardly have sinned in the womb and, if the worldview is correct, I don't see how this doesn't send them straight to heaven. Or something. So while I'm glad religious people join me, I've never quite understood why (unless, deep down, most people don't really, actually, literally believe their faith, which, wrongly or rightly, I suspect is so).<<<Random

Dude?  It's quite evident you have no concept of free will, or indeed, of the Judeo-Christian belief in the primacy of life.  That's a grotesque and offensive mischaracterization.

137 It's a gratuitously offensive and unnecessarily bad target ad. They could have made a good one instead, and I outlined several ways how on a previous thread.

Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 08:39 AM (YiE0S)

All hail Random....we are in the presence of perfection.

138 Gabriel's charge of racism is as scurrilous and false as any of the similar charges Democrats constantly throw at Republicans.

139

Perry is a fool for doing that ad but he is also right.

Open homosexuality in the military is crazy.

Forcing kids to be silent about faith while in school is crazy.

Both are happening.

140 >>No thanks. She's a f*cking Progressive by her own words in the 2008 debate; we'd be getting the same shit in a different bottle.

I realized the silliness of my comment the moment I hit enter.

Really though, Romney aught to primary the JEF in his real party.

141 "Perry to campaign in 42 cities all December in Iowa."

Give him marks for trying. I respect that. He's a serious governor with a good record whom I initially supported (and am on record here as doing so, if I could be bothered googling for however long to find it), but he just does not understand how to campaign outside of Texas.

Texas is a unique beast: it's own semi-Republic. Bush, Lyndon Johnson, etc., were just better politicians. And the GOP needs a good politician in order to defeat Obama.

142 *its

143 Thank you for articulating that. I don't think it would carry as much weight coming from me. I have also noted his concern. It's all right there for the world to see. My guess? HIgh school social studies teacher or maybe a semi-trustafarian on a PhD track at a second or third tier diploma mill.

144 #125  Aborted children go to heaven.  However,  abortion is an offense against God because you are ending a life which might have accomplished something important.

And this is a completely ludicrous argument anyway;  one could also argue that we should kill babies right after birth,  because they go to heaven,  anyway.

145 If Christians go to Heaven when they are murdered, that's a pretty sweet deal, too. So the murderer is actually doing them a good deed.

146 "All hail Random....we are in the presence of perfection."

No, I had to think about it for a while and other people on that thread contributed to my ideas. But juxtapositioning disapproval of serving military members with children wasn't the best way it could have been done.

147 Another thing, if God is all powerful, could he make a burrito so big that he couldn't eat it all?

148 aussie, if you come to small town USA, the low cost of living will stun you.

149

This is proof positive Government Motors is circling the drain again.

The cuts are focused on engineering, product development and corporate operations at General Motors' headquarters in Detroit's Renaissance Center. But the company stressed that no mass layoffs are planned.
  When they are dropping their Engineering dept. It is all over but the admission of same.

150 How could Rick Perry run such a gratuitously offensive ad targeting gays? Everyone knows gays are an historically key conservative constituency! Also, we should murder ALL unborn babies. 'Cause then they'd go to heaven, wouldn't they?! Hahahahahaa! Loophole, you stupid godbag mouthbreathers! Murdering unborn babies is actually doing them a favor!

151 Perry/Rubio 2012?

Try this:

Someone other than Perry/Rubio 2012

152 "Also, we should murder ALL unborn babies."

I'm strongly pro-life. Because we only have one.

153 If I had a time machine and went back to see myself in the past and held a gun to my head to keep me from huffing that glue, would that cancel out my free will or does it double it?

154 Random Don't make teh faithful crazy with logic, that's why it's called Faith. And I believe one of the recent popes cleared up that limbo shit for prebaptismal death. And that certainly made it all better, didn't it?

155 I'm noticing a lack of people answering this question: "Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus?"

156 For what it's worth, not a lot I know, if it actually came down to Ron Paul vs. Barack Obama, it would be easy for me to back Paul. It would be a very easy choice, 4 years of Ron Paul might wreck our position in the world, but imagine what 2 years of Ron Paul would do for our economy. The shock to the system would be astonishing. The kind of nut Ron Paul would appoint to Supreme Court would on the whole be batter than anyone Obama would appoint. And finally, the shock to the political establishment that a Paul victory would be awesome.

157 Random, let's presume that your view of Christianity holds - we'd all be better off just walking into the disintegration chambers, right? No point in ever existing on Earth, which is imperfect, because look at all the good stuff in Heaven. Streets of gold, and all that. Why bother at all? Ever hear of original sin? No, I thought not, because you are ignorant of Christian beliefs. AoS is an unlikely place to carry on a theological discussion, so I'll just say, you can Google it, just like playing with your hair. And to repeat: if you intend to ridicule people for not understanding their beliefs, you should try not to demonstrate your own ignorance in the process.

158 Take your hats off, boys: Augustine, Teilhard, Random

159

150 Jean

 When my daughter finally does the big move to the US, I'm hoping to see more of the US than the big touristy cities - loved them all but I've never had the chance to see everywhere in between (except from the plane travelling from NYC to LA)

 

160 I'm noticing a lack of people answering this question: "Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus?"

Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 08:51 AM (YiE0S)

what are you doing your best impression of the old troll christoph?

161 Random you shouldn't do it by demonstrating your ignorance on the matter."

Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus?

At best, that's a trick question.

Suffer the little children to come unto me, do not hinder them, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven. And unless we become as a little child, we can not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ultimately, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

162

I'm noticing a lack of people answering this question: "Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus?"

Through the grace of the Savior they are welcomed into the embrace of the Father.  Next.

163

Posted by: Roy at December 09, 2011 08:51 AM (tCLC5)

I have to agree on all those points, Ive always said of Paul, he'd have the economy booming and the debt falling but just as we're starting to enjoy the fruits of it, we'll be blown up by an Iranian Nuke

164 This Random douchebag has got to be Christoph: Reloaded.

165 #125  Aborted children go to heaven.  However,  abortion is an offense against God because you are ending a life which might have accomplished something important.

Well, at least you answered the question, Miss Marple.

In that case, what I said:

If Christianity is true, and if aborted and otherwise too young to accept Jesus children go to heaven, then abortion may be evil for the perpetrator, a violation of "Divine Command" morality theory and Godly prohibition against murder, but it's a sweet, sweet deal for the aborted child. And it's actually one hell of a noble sacrifice to go to Hell personally to bring so many more children to Heaven than otherwise would have been the case (as life has a corrupting effect, to say the least, reducing odds people will make it there).

... is true. It's an evil thing to do, because it's murder and violates God's will. But it's a mega-sweet deal for the aborted children, so we can stop mourning for them right about now.

I'll continue mourning and fighting against abortion, however, because I don't believe in God or Heaven, and I think there's no good evidence that we have more than one life. And that is why abortion is wrong.

I'm not making a pro-choice argument. I'm trying to understand on what rational basis Christians and Muslims have been my ally in this fight. I guess I'll just accept their leadership and support on this gratefully, but I still don't understand it.

The Charlie Daniels [wonderful music, especially The Devil Went Back to Georgia] of the torque wrench probably put it best:

"Don't make teh faithful crazy with logic, that's why it's called Faith."

166 maybe Random is secretly Allahpussy?

167 I'm noticing a lack of people answering this question: "Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus?" Whatever God predestined them for. I suspect, they are recycled as Liberal Democrats.

168 166 Random you shouldn't do it by demonstrating your ignorance on the matter." Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus? At best, that's a trick question. Suffer the little children to come unto me, do not hinder them, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven. And unless we become as a little child, we can not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ultimately, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. Posted by: Obama never needs an excuse to be wrong. at December 09, 2011 08:55 AM (lpWVn) Analogy question (Multiple Choice): Metaphysics::Random Pearls::____________ a. Oysters b. Necklaces c. Bailey d. Swine

169 Only those who think life is a random process of a meaningless universe can truly value life.  You people who want to avoid death as a gift from God are nuts and should fap to it instead.

Got it.

170 *Down

171 start providing some fucking proof about your racist allegations or stfu, gabe.. I haven't seen one thing that isn't some lefty talking point that swung over to the right as a means to discredit the ONLY guy who "gets it". I've only seen you post, what I can only consider, opinions because you provide no proof what-so-ever.. and never have at any point in any of your anti-Ron Paul, he's a racist, rants.

172 Whatever God predestined them for. I suspect, they are recycled as Liberal Democrats.

Posted by: John Calvin at December 09, 2011 09:00 AM (niZvt)

lol John Calvin.

173 is this the power company's idea of a joke? they want me to add money to my bill a month to fund them to speed up the availability of solar in my region? i don't get anything, i don't get solar energy.....i just get to pay for them to do research and development of it? they also want me to add more money to my bill to help someone who can't pay their bill .....why don't they help them out by not charging them? The new SRP Community Solar is designed for people who don't mind paying a little more to accelerate the growth of solar energy in the region and state. An easy choice No upfront investment No maintenance or repair costs Environmentally friendly Works for anyone – renters, condo owners and those with homes not suitable for rooftop solar Cancel at any time Join today The average net cost of Community Solar is only about $4 per month per block on your SRP bill.

174 When my daughter finally does the big move to the US, I'm hoping to see more of the US than the big touristy cities

Ding, ding. It took a few minutes but I remember you from some months back telling us about your daughter's impending move. Did she pick California or Texas?

As for seeing more than the touristy cities, I suggest getting a few old fashioned hard-copy maps, renting a car and just start driving, any where but the Interstate highways. Despite the press, Americans enjoy meeting People From Other Places.

175 Wow, "green" energy is a racket? Who woulda thunk it?

176

After Super Tuesday we will be left with Newt and Rick.

Rick will eventually defeat Newt.

Rick clobbers Ebola.

This is the best "eman drinks alcohol to tolerate 2012" outcome I can foresee.

Pour me some of what you're having.

177 Wow, "green" energy is a racket? Who woulda thunk it?

Posted by: blaster at December 09, 2011 09:02 AM (Fw2Gg)

my brother's not gonna be happy to hear this...

178

After Super Tuesday we will be left with Newt and Rick.

Rick will eventually defeat Newt.

Rick clobbers Ebola.

This is the best "eman drinks alcohol to tolerate 2012" outcome I can foresee.

Pour me some of what you're having.

Posted by: alexthechick at December 09, 2011 09:02 AM (VtjlW)

me too, and some of what your smoking as well

179 I marvel at the MSM referring to formation fracturing as "controversial new technology". I worked a frac crew for Halliburton in East Texas 25 years ago. How old does the technology have to be before it isn't new anymore?

180 Halliburton! Well, that's all you need to know right there!

181 Take your hats off, boys: Augustine, Teilhard, Random There are people who look at the horizon and strive to see past it. Others use that same horizon to smugly declare themselves masters of all that can be surveyed. Give it a try. It works beautifully: Biological imperative be damned! The male orgasm evolved primarily so we would know when to stop fapping.

182 "I have to agree on all those points, Ive always said of Paul, he'd have the economy booming and the debt falling but just as we're starting to enjoy the fruits of it, we'll be blown up by an Iranian Nuke."

Close! I've always thought Russian, myself.

183 188 Halliburton! Well, that's all you need to know right there! Posted by: blaster at December 09, 2011 09:04 AM (Fw2Gg) Come on over, pull up a chair! Halliburton, from the Greek words Halli and Burton. Halli meaning "hell" and burton meaning "burton"

184 Posted by: AuthorLMendez Is On The Newt Train Whether Becks Likes It Or Not at December 09, 2011 09:03 AM (yAor6) Take a drink: Mitt drops out. Take a toke: Ebola concedes before Midnight on Election Day.

185

After Super Tuesday we will be left with Newt and Rick.

Rick will eventually defeat Newt.

Rick clobbers Ebola.

This is the best "eman drinks alcohol to tolerate 2012" outcome I can foresee.

Pour me some of what you're having.

Posted by: alexthechick at December 09, 2011 09:02 AM (VtjlW)

Damn, you often make me laugh!

186

But it's a mega-sweet deal for the aborted children, so we can stop mourning for them right about now.

Ass.

We mourn for inocent lost lives, their lost potential, and the hubris of those who cast them aside in the name of simple expediency.

187 Halliburton as in Earl P. One of the pioneers of oil well cementing. I've done that for Halliburton too.

188 we will be left with newt and rick? which one? and we meaning "GOP" right? because you know dr paul will go third party right? so he won't be part of the "we" but he will still be running.......

189

Posted by: maddogg at December 09, 2011 09:09 AM (OlN4e)

hey fucker tell us how Cheney started a war so you assclowns could make money rebuilding Iraq

190

Halliburton as in Earl P. One of the pioneers of oil well cementing. I've done that for Halliburton too.

Gaia rapist.

191 O, RLLY Brian Kilmead? What kind of fucking psychopath doesn't LIKE a chick, in a short skirt, with puppehs? YOU, that's who! I'll leave it up to Vic to rip F&F on their news-unworthyiness... Damn, man!!!! As a female...I gotta say.... There is something VERY, icky about a grown man being more comfy with teh kitteh cats, than dawgs on N'tl Tee-Vee. Just sayin'.....

192 180 "But it's a mega-sweet deal for the aborted children, so we can stop mourning for them right about now." Yeah. Because God loved this World that He created, and wanted us to enjoy it, and being hacked up and flushed stymies that. So we can stop mourning, because Random says so. Posted by: Blue Hen at December 09, 2011 09:01 AM (c9Ivb) OK, bear in mind that I'm addressing this comment as a Christian myself, so I don't mean this in snarky terms. But you touch upon a few questions I've always thought about: a) Per the Bible, this world is hopelessly flawed, and we were driven into it out of the Garden of Eden as PUNISHMENT, remember? To bear pain and toil to survive? b) So, I don't see the Genesis described a world that God wants newborns to "enjoy." c) More fundamentalist Christians tend to look at this world as some sort of "test" to determine if we are worthy of heavens... you run the gauntlet of all the hurts and temptations the world can hit you with, and, presumably, if you kept your faith intact the whole time you get to go to heaven (though, again, the Calvinists would say even THAT was predetermined, which IMO makes a mockery of the very core of Christian theology, but that is another matter... ) SO: if a kid dies and automatically collects $200, and gets an automatic Go Directly to Heaven card... yes, he indeed did "luck out," in that sense. d) When it comes to the whole scenario of us meeting up on Cloud 9 one day wearing white sheets and playing a golden harp... if we really, TRULY, believe that... why indeed do we think death should be a time of mourning at all? What, indeed, makes anyone "poor" or to be pitied for dying young or dying at all? Under such a scenario, isn't death really the best possible thing to happen to any of us? I'm just thinking out loud here; my personal view of the whole thing is that Jesus was much more concerned with the Kingdom of Heaven being established in the Here and Now than what happens to us after death - about which in the oldest Gospel, Mark, he says almost next to nothing.

193 Sorry I turned Italican...

194 Government cash paid to support corrupt and ridiculous "green energy" is a form of frakking, too.

195 I just want to say I'll also NOT be voting for that fucktard Ron Paul, ever.  In fact, if he somehow does get the nomination (God help us), I'll actually vote FOR Obrezhnev. 
Okay maybe not, maybe I'll just skip that vote instead.

Also, re the Perry "Strong" ad - relax, y'all.  He's pandering to the Iowa caucus voters.  They care about that stuff more than most.  (Remember Bachmann *did* win the straw poll largely based on social issues!)  I don't like that ad either, but it pissed off all the trolls who wouldn't vote for him anyway, and I kinda like that even if pissing people off isn't really my favorite campaign strategery.  (I like honey, not vinegar, but whatever.)

Just roll with it.  Perry isn't going to make the campaign about social issues.  

196 What's up, morons? "What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus?" I once heard someone say, in response to a similar question, "what, do you think God is like some card sharp trying to trick people into going to hell?!" St. Alphonsus Liguori said: "...God, by antecedent will, wishes all to be saved, and therefore has granted universal means for the salvation of all; but these means at times fail of their effect, either by reason of the unwillingness of some persons to avail themselves of them, or because others are unable to make use of them, on account of secondary causes (such as the death of children).... Jesus Christ ...instituted baptism for all; but the application of this means of salvation, so far as relates to children who die before the use of reason, is not prevented by the direct will of God, but by a merely permissive will.... ...second...to perish is not the same as not to be blessed: since eternal happiness is a gift entirely gratuitous....The opinion, therefore, of St. Thomas is very just, that children who die in infancy have neither the pain of sense nor the pain of loss; not the pain of sense, he says, “because pain of sense corresponds to conversion to creatures....""

197 I'm noticing a lack of people answering this question: "Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus?


purgatory.

198 The Lady Gaga Administration threw an early Hanukkah party at the White House last night, but so far, there's no twitter news yet indicating if Barry went full frontal nudity.

199

http://tinyurl.com/brokered-convention

200

On Newt,

You sure you want to look at him and his nine chins everyday for the next four years...You sure you want to hear that professorial monotone everyday for the next four years.  And, the man does not look healthy.  Being retired military, I can tell you that Newt and persons like him would not achieve high rank because he could not stand the physical demands of the job.  He would get destroyed by the 24/7 tempo of being POTUS.  Executive leadership truly requires some traits above and beyond a decent command of the english language, or being a master-debater ala Newt.  Apropos of nothing this morning...Just putting it out there...

201

In total I guess I worked for Halliburton about 5 years. First as a driver, then as a Cementer, then, after Engineering school, as a Field Engineer in Training where I learned fracturing and down hole tooling, both of which Halliburton is a leader in. They got involved it things like contracting in Afghanistan through the purchase of Brown and Root and International Harvester.

Tough to call Halliburton the incarnation of evil, I always got the impression they were just a company trying to make a profit.

202

Also, re the Perry "Strong" ad - relax, y'all.  He's pandering to the Iowa caucus voters.  They care about that stuff more than most.  (Remember Bachmann *did* win the straw poll largely based on social issues!)  I don't like that ad either, but it pissed off all the trolls who wouldn't vote for him anyway, and I kinda like that even if pissing people off isn't really my favorite campaign strategery.  (I like honey, not vinegar, but whatever.)

exactly, look im not for Perry right now, i'm FOR gay marriage, I was FOR the repeal of DADT but im not offended in any way by that ad.

203 207 I'm noticing a lack of people answering this question: "Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus? purgatory. Posted by: GMan at December 09, 2011 09:15 AM (sxq57) I think you mean Limbo, but I thought the Catholics pulled the plug on that. Besides, Protestants accept neither Purgatory nor Limbo - I'm not sure about the Orthodox.

204

Posted by: jwest at December 09, 2011 09:16 AM (8moZm)

you're still betting on this huh?

205 Lets get this party started ... who brought the cucumbers?

206 I'm noticing a lack of people answering this question: "Then explain it. What happens to children who die too young to accept Jesus?

State of Grace.

207 The Goddess Irony says in a one on one debate between Newt and Rick, Rick will win.

208 This Random douchebag has got to be Christoph: Reloaded. Was Christoph the marquis de queensbury canadian soldier who thought you could win a LIC/Counter terror campaign by maintaining a stiff upper lip when the afternoon tea was cold?

209

So Obama lit ALL the menorah candles at once, huh? 

He didn't think that was a monumental cock-up, eh?

What an ignorant assclown.  Apparently he just doesn't know the whole frigging story of Hannukah?  You think someone may have possibly wanted to clue him in?  "Um, Mr. President?  I understand that you despise Jews and the whole concept of Judaism, but you do realize that the point of the menorah is to commemorate the lamp oil that lasted eight days, against all reason?  And that the candles are supposed to be lit across eight days, not all at once?  Because lighting them all at once is a sure sign that you are a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure?  Just so you know."

210

I think you mean Limbo, but I thought the Catholics pulled the plug on that.

No, Catholics did not pull the plug on Purgatory. See CCC 1030-32. http://is.gd/R5ilqo

211 216 Lets get this party started ... who brought the cucumbers? Posted by: Honey Badger at December 09, 2011 09:19 AM (GvYeG) Nancy and I only brought one. We're going to share.

212

Tough to call Halliburton the incarnation of evil, I always got the impression they were just a company trying to make a profit.

That six percent profit margin in Iraq was just over the top, man.

213

Fireworks broke out in Congress today, as Rep. Rep Darrell Issa, R-Calif., warned Attorney General Eric Holder that he could be held in contempt of Congress for his failure to cooperate with an investigation into the Fast and Furious program, in which the Obama administration allowed guns to "walk" into Mexico, where they ended up in the hands of Mexican drug lords.

The exchange, which occurred at the end of a House Judiciary committee hearing that lasted nearly seven hours including recesses, exploded as Issa compared Holder's stonewalling to the Nixon era and Holder responded by comparing Issa's tactics to Sen. Joe McCarthy's.

Eric realizing that he's a lying sack of shit referred to the Cliche Handbook and went with option #2 of McCarthy since Hitler probably wouldn't have fit this scenario.

214 Ah, my child, it's very simple. Most souls are returned to the Guf. A few, who carry the burden of true evil, find their way to hell, where they are placed in sickeningly malformed monkey-like creatures chained to computers. Then they are directed by Satan himself to annoy the living with their stupid shit. Posted by: His Eminence, Pope Insouciance XIV at December 09, 2011 09:20 AM (Ixum5) You mean they go to work at the State Department?

215 Also, regarding children who have died without baptism, see CCC 1261. http://is.gd/PLUqzV

216 Tough to call Halliburton the incarnation of evil, always wondered how Bechtel skates, do they pay some sort of liberal penance tax?

217 221 vomiting now ...

218 216 Lets get this party started ... who brought the cucumbers?

Posted by: Honey Badger at December 09, 2011 09:19 AM (GvYeG)

Cucumbers?  Next you'll have women fondling bananas!   Filthy infidels! 

219 222 I think you mean Limbo, but I thought the Catholics pulled the plug on that. No, Catholics did not pull the plug on Purgatory. See CCC 1030-32. http://is.gd/R5ilqo Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 09, 2011 09:21 AM (IkTb7) Yeah, but we are talking about innocent children that die before they get to sin. That means Limbo would have been the appropriate place for them, since there is nothing they had done they need to be "purged" for. And I'm pretty sure Limbo has been officially removed from Catholic doctrine. I could be wrong, of course, not being Catholic.

220 halliburton makes a lot of people a lot of money (including dems) because the are the best at what they do.........

221 OK, bear in mind that I'm addressing this comment as a Christian myself, so I don't mean this in snarky terms. But you touch upon a few questions I've always thought about:

a) Per the Bible, this world is hopelessly flawed, and we were driven into it out of the Garden of Eden as PUNISHMENT, remember? To bear pain and toil to survive?

b) So, I don't see the Genesis described a world that God wants newborns to "enjoy."

c) More fundamentalist Christians tend to look at this world as some sort of "test" to determine if we are worthy of heavens... you run the gauntlet of all the hurts and temptations the world can hit you with, and, presumably, if you kept your faith intact the whole time you get to go to heaven (though, again, the Calvinists would say even THAT was predetermined, which IMO makes a mockery of the very core of Christian theology, but that is another matter... ) SO: if a kid dies and automatically collects $200, and gets an automatic Go Directly to Heaven card... yes, he indeed did "luck out," in that sense.

d) When it comes to the whole scenario of us meeting up on Cloud 9 one day wearing white sheets and playing a golden harp... if we really, TRULY, believe that... why indeed do we think death should be a time of mourning at all? What, indeed, makes anyone "poor" or to be pitied for dying young or dying at all? Under such a scenario, isn't death really the best possible thing to happen to any of us?

I'm just thinking out loud here; my personal view of the whole thing is that Jesus was much more concerned with the Kingdom of Heaven being established in the Here and Now than what happens to us after death - about which in the oldest Gospel, Mark, he says almost next to nothing.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2011 09:12 AM (niZvt)

Thank you for your serious and thoughtful reply CoolCzech.

While I don't have the same understanding of Jesus the man as you do, what you say is quite possible and does make sense.

I don't have anything to add over and above your realistic and good comment, but I genuinely appreciated it.

222 TQM - I love wearing my McCarthy was right T-shirt around DC.

223 Posted by: Some crazy Imam who apparently doesn't have enough wives at December 09, 2011 09:24 AM (4df7R) Is it okay for a woman to own a carpet cleaning business?

224 Obama, first lady Michelle Obama and Vice President Joe Biden convened a Hanukkah celebration at the White House Thursday in an early celebration of the Jewish Festival of Lights.


He had it this week and lit all of the candles at once so he wouldn't have to interrupt his Hawaii vacation.


Hanukkah begins at sunset on Dec. 20. Obama joked that everyone needs to be "careful that your kids don't start thinking Hanukkah lasts 20 nights instead of eight."


What? Does that make any sense? Or is it just the idiot off of the teleprompter babbling nonsense

225 And I'm pretty sure Limbo has been officially removed from Catholic doctrine. I could be wrong, of course, not being Catholic.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2011 09:24 AM (niZvt)

that's what I thought

226

Eric realizing that he's a lying sack of shit referred to the Cliche Handbook and went with option #2 of McCarthy since Hitler probably wouldn't have fit this scenario.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 09, 2011 09:22 AM (1Jaio)

Of course, the fact that McCarthy was, you know, RIGHT and stuff clearly escapes Holder's childish grasp of reality.

227
Tough to call Halliburton the incarnation of evil, I always got the impression they were just a company trying to make a profit.

Well... scoording to SCOAMF.... that IS evil incarnate.

228 Y'all (mostly) are a bunch of heretics.  ;p

229 Tough to call Halliburton the incarnation of evil, I always got the impression they were just a company trying to make a profit.

After years of hearing the left yell that and having the morons jokingly yell that, it's funny to just see their trucks all over the place here. You can't actually see the evil dripping off the trucks.

230

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2011 09:26 AM (WkuV6)

lol my brother gets in a hiffy when I mention he was right

231 The more I watch the politics for this election the more I think God is playing a huge practical joke on everyone. First He got all the Leftists focused into having a group orgasm over Obama and then just when they were ready to climax, Obama bites down. Then He sets up the GOP field with impossible choices. Tantalizing conservatives with Perry who has a record to die for, except it comes out Perry can neither think nor talk in real time, and has a politically deaf ear. Then He has Romney, a living Ken doll of political banality, but at least accomplished and unarguably a smart and efficient manager. Then He has a crazy foreign policy libertarian, with some good economic ideas if perhaps a slave to some imagined golden purity and Constitutional obedience, yet with ideas straight out of 1922 about the rest of the world and their threat to America. Add to that a female congresswoman that acts desperate, yet a moral woman, probably smart enough to do OK as President. Then He adds Newt, without a doubt Genius level with historical knowledge and a literal gusher of ideas and the ability to articulate those ideas. He can kill anyone living or dead in a debate. And hated by the Establishment both Left and Right, maybe for good reasons, but most of us hate the Establishment now so much that their hatred of Newt serves as an endorsement to many Americans. Sprinkle in some others. Meanwhile who we all really want such as Rubio or Ryan are not running. Both would make the election a landslide, especially Rubio. Now what happens if none of this works like we think it is going to? I could see Obama ultimately going bat-shit crazy, as he actually is, but is able to maintain a semblance of sanity, probably learned while being married to a vagina with teeth, ordering martial law and the military revolting and hang on for the ride. We are in some interesting times, America is not only broke, it is broken...shades of Charles Heston on the beach cursing those that buried liberty to its neck. Too many took it all for granted, since Vietnam becoming enemies of their own country, infants slapping their mother as the first act of being born. There will be blood, I am thinking it cannot be fixed without the spilling of blood, just gone too far, I hope not, but liberty is jealous like no other property owned by man, jilt liberty by inattention or even take her for granted, and you will have to give her blood to win her back.

232 Is it okay for a woman to own a carpet cleaning business?

Posted by: eman at December 09, 2011 09:26 AM (HUEsn)

FILTHY!  FILTHY!  Mentioning "woman" and "carpet" in one sentence!  NEXT YOU'LL BE ASKING IF WOMEN CAN DRIVE A STICK SHIFT!  We don't allow them to drive AT ALL, the dirty whores! 

 

233

Posted by: Jehu at December 09, 2011 09:28 AM (wXl2T)

Ive never seen you on here before but my God do I agree w/ a lot of what you said

234 Was Christoph the marquis de queensbury canadian soldier who thought you could win a LIC/Counter terror campaign by maintaining a stiff upper lip when the afternoon tea was cold? I don't remember exactly, but it's possible. I do remember pissing somebody off by comparing some infantry units' names I had been assigned to (Cobras, Barbarians, Raiders, Death Dealers, Bushmasters) to the nicknames for Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry regiment (Pats, Patricias, Picklies). Not that I don't have the utmost respect for fellow grunts, but talking good-natured intra- and inter-service shit is the birthright of every serviceman. Which is why is suspect whoever that was is full of shit about their military cervix.

235 I have it from a reliable source that Michele Bachman, when/if she drops out of the race has told Gov. Romney that she will endorse him.

Tammy Bruce has been saying for months that Bachmann is a stalking horse for Mittens.

236

you're still betting on this huh?

Posted by: AuthorLMendez Is On The Newt Train Whether Beck Likes It Or Not at December 09, 2011 09:18 AM (yAor6)

 

Not betting on it in the sense that itÂ’s the most likely possibility, but opening people to the possibility that it can happen.  There are Mitt forces that are not going to give in to Newt or Perry.  There are anti-Mitt forces that simply wonÂ’t give the votes he needs to lock up the nomination.  On top of that, there are Paul nuts out there that are getting sick of being ignored and laughed at.

 

My main point is that we donÂ’t need to settle on a flawed candidate that doesnÂ’t generate the level of enthusiasm we want next year.  GOP rules are not codified in law.  The rules for nominating a presidential candidate are anything that the GOP rules committee agrees to over a 15 minute phone conference.  Individual state GOP committees can be pressured into doing whatever it takes. 

 

Personally, I think it would be a great way to take 45 states if the current crop of candidates go until the convention and Marco Rubio comes out as the fresh, new nominee.  Obama and the democrats would be apoplectic. 

 

Also, donÂ’t for one minute think that the democrats wouldnÂ’t pull the same stunt.  If 30 days before the democrat convention itÂ’s obvious that Obama is going to lose big, I would predict he would drop out to save his ego and Hillary would be the surprise candidate for the next “historic” election.

237 230 Limbo is extinct as of 2 years ago. I could explain why the unborn are still covered but it would take me several paragraphs.

238

I have it from a reliable source that Michele Bachman, when/if she drops out of the race has told Gov. Romney that she will endorse him.

no! you don't say, I neversaw that coming/sarc

the woman is Romney's political whore, Ive said this many times. Since Perry knocked her off the top tier and her Gardasil comments blew up in her face, she has been protecting Mittens and slamming flavors of the month ever since.

Tammy Bruce has been saying for months that Bachmann is a stalking horse for Mittens.

well I kinda agree with Tammy but she might just be jeleous her gal Palin aint the woman in the race

239 Question, since I was removed from the news for the latter half of yesterday: what's happening with our downed drone in Iran?  Any news?

240 244 Here occasionally, was a longtime poster at LGF, but like most with a brain or heart was banned. Yeah this election cycle is not normal, I do feel something supernatural is up, like forces beyond just us humans are marshaling for the BIG one. Both sides, fallen and un-fallen angels are sharpening swords, glad I got to see this, nearly died a couple of times the last couple of years, praying for this Bullshit to end, so tired and weary of lies I hardly want to be around anymore.

241 Yes, but this would make it too obvious, Captain,

242 "Question, since I was removed from the news for the latter half of yesterday: what's happening with our downed drone in Iran?"

I'm pretty sure that they, and the Russians and/or Chinese, are looking at it.

243 MWR, the Iranians trotted out a paper mache replica and claimed it was the drone -- beyond thet Obama bent over and offered to ease sanctions as an apology -- but you knew that was coming. (Obama really cannot afford to have a Persian Gulf ruckus spiking oil prices next year.)

244

Posted by: jwest at December 09, 2011 09:32 AM (8moZm)

I agree with the possibility and I hope it happens myself as only 1 of my 5 dream candidates ran and he ended up not being able to say the name of a blog right.

I just think it ain't happening.

as for your Dem Convention theory, I think that's much more possible then a brokered GOP convention.

245 what's happening with our downed drone in Iran? Any news? Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 09, 2011 09:33 AM (4df7R) Yes they probably have it, but in what shape it is in is still questionable. The video/pics they showed "MAY" be it but some are saying- ABC News- that it is only a mock up? Did it malfunction or did the Russians help the Iranians steal the signal? Did obama shit can a mission to recover or destroy it? Basically "We" don't really know much. I hope the CIA/Military does.

246 "Here occasionally, was a longtime poster at LGF"

I think I lasted a couple days before asking a question of the big bicycling lizard.

247 231 halliburton makes a lot of people a lot of money (including dems) because the are the best at what they do.........

Posted by: phoenixgirl at December 09, 2011 09:25 AM (Ho2rs)

I'll tell you this; they WORK! If you work for Halliburton, you work. The first week I worked for them, fresh out of college (my first degree) I put in 160 hours, then we got busy. I think the oil patch term was "workhouse sumbitch".

248 Welcome to Random Trolling Friday.
Smells kinda like cat piss with a different hash stench. 

249 How far apart were his contractions when you said this? As I recall, he was fully dilated and the contractions were continuous.

250

What exactly are his disastrous economic views?  I mean, he's opposed to the TARP and all that, and the Fed, but sensible conservatives are moving that way anyway.  His economic views are vastly more mainstream than they were a decade ago, and deservedly so.  You may think that theoretically we're better off with the Fed, and you may be right, but since our political classes will drive us from crisis to crisis and eventually to catastrophic bankruptcy if they are given the means, I don't really care about the theory.

 

On the other hand, I would be interested in the details/evidence about Ron Paul's racist conspiracy-mongering.  I know some of his supporters fall into that unsavory class, but I didn't know he himself bought into that stuff.  I would appreciate the details.

 

251 Am I the *only one* who thinks that Rick Perry's "Gays, openly, SERVING in the Military..." Is an asshat move? Sure dude... Win Iowa!!! Make yourself, fucking unelectable, in the General, so long as you fight the fight, you Christian Soldier!!! Nope. We *can't* have a conservative Governor of Texas talking about the Keystone XL deal, or ENERGY POLICY in general... Nope. The fundamentards in IOWA have spoken, and Rick Perry has heard their plaint... *I've oft wondered, "Who the fuck?!, comes into Manhatten to populate the audience for Mike Huckabee's show?" IOWANS, obviously... There shall be no gheys in the military, because that is *just the same* as the war on Christians! WTF!? Dumbass.

252 Welcome to Random Trolling Friday.
Smells kinda like cat piss with a different hash stench. 

Posted by: ontherocks at December 09, 2011 09:38 AM (HBqDo)

I have to say as someone annoyed by Random's sem trolling on this thread I doubt he/she is cat piss.

cat piss has random links in 99% of her comments and claims to be very religious.

253 It's a sad, sad day when Micky D's is now considered a fine dining experience world wide.

254 256 "Question, since I was removed from the news for the latter half of yesterday: what's happening with our downed drone in Iran?" I'm pretty sure that they, and the Russians and/or Chinese, are looking at it. Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 09:36 AM (YiE0S) I think we can bank on it that the Russians or Chinese were the ones that hacked our remote control of the drone, enabling them to land it intact. I don't understand why we don't have some sort of self-destruct mechanism on those things. It's really frustrating.

255

Perry's latest ad is the end for me. He wants to reopen all the social stuff, like prayer in school. We're drowning in debt and red tape and he thinks school prayers are the solution.

Uhm, no.  What he thinks is that his campaign is floundering and needs to take some desperate measures.  Does he really give a rat's ass about school prayer?  Well, probably, but its priority #94 of the Perry administration.

256

Thanks, Jean and Random! 

I still want me one of those American flags with skulls for stars that the Iranians were waving around yesterday.  That would be one kickass statement to hang out by my front door: "Stars and Stripes forever, baby!  Or we will kill you and let the sun bleach your worthless bones, you lousy mofos."

At least, that's how I'd interpret it.  *le cough*

257 182 I've probably missed you now - got sidetracked reading some news, but my daughter has picked California even though their work is in Texas - makes it easier for us to visit -only a 14 hour trip plus time in captivity ie customs

258 I really enjoyed Shecky Obama's comedy routine at the W. H. Hanukkah celebration yesterday and I wasn't the only one! Mel Gibson raves: "It was a 3-menorah gut laugh!" Helen Thomas gushes: "I laughed till i cried and pissed myself! I had to change my diaper twice! David Duke gives 3 Thumbs Up: "A diaspora of delight and frolic!" Occupy Wall Street opines: "While symbolic defecation on Jewish power symbols can never replace the real thing, we appreciate this show of solidarity from President Obama."

259 251 Iran showed video of the downed drone, completely intact. Who is the idiot that allowed drones to fly without self-destruct packages? Also the military knew where the drone was at, and considered bombing the location, but someone said NO. Who did that? That drone is in China by now. We have some really, really, stupid people in some areas of our DoD.

260

More fundamentalist Christians tend to look at this world as some sort of "test" to determine if we are worthy of heavens... you run the gauntlet of all the hurts and temptations the world can hit you with, and, presumably, if you kept your faith intact the whole time you get to go to heaven (though, again, the Calvinists would say even THAT was predetermined, which IMO makes a mockery of the very core of Christian theology, but that is another matter... ) SO: if a kid dies and automatically collects $200, and gets an automatic Go Directly to Heaven card... yes, he indeed did "luck out," in that sense.

Umm, I don't know what kind of fundamentalist Christianity you are discussing since a cornerstone of fundamentalism is that you cannot be saved by works and are saved by faith in the redemming blood of Christ alone. 

 

261 It's a sad, sad day when Micky D's is now considered a fine dining experience world wide. One of my Czech relatives over there told me it's considered "better food" over there. Sad, indeed.

262

It's a sad, sad day when Micky D's is now considered a fine dining experience world wide.

well a lot of folks cant spend $40 just for a dinner for two that they can make cheaper at home

263 It's a sad, sad day when Micky D's is now considered a fine dining experience world wide. Posted by: runningrn at December 09, 2011 09:40 AM (u/RSM) Breakfast/coffee is pretty good

264 Why would that be, the Dem convention, is locked up tight, 'we really dodged a bullet' with her not running, I mean could have gone all Tardasil, threatened to hang Bernanke, said we couldn't invade Iran because of the Mountains, and defended
associations with the likes of Kerry, Pelosi, and Sharpton, that would have been
embarassing,

265 Of course, the fact that McCarthy was, you know, RIGHT and stuff clearly escapes Holder's childish grasp of reality.

Doesn't matter if he was right: He was MEAN.


The end

266 I tend to think Pujlos was more popular than Obama around here. Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 09, 2011 09:43 AM (OWjjx) then They should have taken care of him 2 years ago

267

well I kinda agree with Tammy but she might just be jeleous her gal Palin aint the woman in the race

Posted by: AuthorLMendez Is On The Newt Train Whether Beck Likes It Or Not at December 09, 2011 09:33 AM (yAor6)

That was precisely her point, that by being a conservative woman in place she kept Palin on the sidelines.

268 Not a political headline, but a warning concerning open source and other downloads. Download.com and CNet found with their hands in the cookie jar. Better to just go to a products home and skip the middle men for a time. http://tinyurl.com/6ocdcnm

269 I think we can bank on it that the Russians or Chinese were the ones that hacked our remote control of the drone, enabling them to land it intact. I don't understand why we don't have some sort of self-destruct mechanism on those things. It's really frustrating.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2011 09:41 AM (niZvt)

Let's hope when they replicate it, that they also replicate its computer. /sarc (but not really)

270 Of course, the fact that McCarthy was, you know, RIGHT and stuff clearly escapes Holder's childish grasp of reality.

McCarthy was a hero.

271 Why would that be, the Dem convention, is locked up tight, 'we really dodged a bullet' with her not running, I mean could have gone all Tardasil, threatened to hang Bernanke, said we couldn't invade Iran because of the Mountains, and defended
associations with the likes of Kerry, Pelosi, and Sharpton, that would have been
embarassing,

Posted by: clayton endicott at December 09, 2011 09:44 AM (AH8RI)

a little more coherence please

272 Umm, I don't know what kind of fundamentalist Christianity you are discussing since a cornerstone of fundamentalism is that you cannot be saved by works and are saved by faith in the redemming blood of Christ alone. Posted by: alexthechick at December 09, 2011 09:42 AM (VtjlW) ...I said "keep your faith intact," remember? As in, Salvation by Faith alone? That was the only work I was describing, if maintaining faith can be considered a work.

273 I don't understand why we don't have some sort of self-destruct mechanism on those things. It's really frustrating. Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2011 09:41 AM (niZvt) I read that we do have a self destruct on them, but....?

274

That was precisely her point, that by being a conservative woman in place she kept Palin on the sidelines.

Posted by: Captain Hate at December 09, 2011 09:44 AM (UJYQt)

oh then I disagree with her, Palin wasnt going to run.

I'd agree though that Bachmann is Romney's political whore.

275 Shhhh...........as a Cubs fan, please, this is like the best day of my life so far. Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 09, 2011 09:46 AM (OWjjx) Shit I'm just glad he did not end up in Boston

276

I'll tell you this; they WORK! If you work for Halliburton, you work. The first week I worked for them, fresh out of college (my first degree) I put in 160 hours, then we got busy. I think the oil patch term was "workhouse sumbitch".

Posted by: maddogg at December 09, 2011 09:37 AM (OlN4e)

Ah, so they actually expect you to DO something for your paycheck.  Clearly not a place the OWS crowd would ever fit in (though they'd probably rather slit their wrists and/or get raped by an elephant seal rather than work for THE EVIL HALLIBURTON anyway).

Speaking of OWS, any of our Mass morons here yet?  I'd like to know what y'all think the over/under is on whether or not Mumbles will actually enforce his eviction notice against OWS Boston.  I'm thinking... 15% odds?

277 285 I think we can bank on it that the Russians or Chinese were the ones that hacked our remote control of the drone, enabling them to land it intact. I don't understand why we don't have some sort of self-destruct mechanism on those things. It's really frustrating.

Apologies if you saw this last night, but remember that story from a few weeks ago about our Predator drones being infected with some computer virus?

Our Military Is THIS Stupid?

278

Shhhh...........as a Cubs fan, please, this is like the best day of my life so far.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 09, 2011 09:46 AM (OWjjx)

at least your team gets some kind of legacy as lovable losers, my team gets ESPN cheering against them and insulting the fanbase

279 I read that we do have a self destruct on them, but....? Posted by: nevergiveup at December 09, 2011 09:46 AM (i6RpT) There could have been human espionage involved, too.

280

On the other hand, I would be interested in the details/evidence about Ron Paul's racist conspiracy-mongering.  I know some of his supporters fall into that unsavory class, but I didn't know he himself bought into that stuff.  I would appreciate the details.

There was some very disturbing stuff in his newsletters, iirc.

I am fascinated that Santorum isn't doing better.  I know, I know, couldn't win his own seat but I swear there were a ton of people thinking they were voting for Casey, Sr. 

281 purgatory.
Posted by: GMan at December 09, 2011 09:15 AM (sxq57)

I think you mean Limbo, but I thought the Catholics pulled the plug on that. Besides, Protestants accept neither Purgatory nor Limbo - I'm not sure about the Orthodox.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2011 09:18 AM (niZvt)

 FWIW- Aborted children are Martyrs.  As such they go directly to Heaven.

282 Checked my local paper, and news sites this morning.

Not a fuckin peep about Holder's hearings.

This is how they do it.

283 Shit I'm just glad he did not end up in Boston

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 09, 2011 09:47 AM (i6RpT)

me too or New York

284 Some stick a piece of black crepe on Random's nose.
His brain is dead.

285 And finally, the shock to the political establishment that of a Paul victory would be awesome.

I can't think of a better way to clarify for Washingtonians the voter disgust with their deaf political establishment. Particularly, public disgust with the current brand of Republican Leadership that has no intention of limiting grotesque governmental exploits in any way. Oh, they'll preach the pretty words with warm tones of voice and proper patriotic sanctimony.  How do I love thee? Let me count the ways. A thousand points of light, a kinder-gentler nation, to win the hearts and minds of our enemies through interventionist wars and nation building, reaching across the aisle, bi-partisan common values, stay the course, rules of engagement, export war so we won't import it, bail-out the too big to fail failures and Ponzi schemes, typecast concerned US citizens in states sharing the border with Mexico as "vigilantes" for demanding border security, facilitate NAFTA at the expense of domestic business employment and community revenue, augment NATO obligations to the demise of any sovereign entity (person, state or nation, and monetary unit), forfeit Liberty and Constitutional Governance for authoritarian effect in the guise of "security". Whose security when the Dollar fails?  Only the insulated elites'.

These days, all government is socialist. Degree matters more today than ever. The only "good" government is a limited government respecting balanced powers (hardly an original thought, hardly untried). Currently, each branch of our govt. has overreached, each acting as if being the other branches as well, assimilating power illegitimately (ex: activist judges legislating from the bench), topped off with the DHS that acts unconstrained.

As far as what "news"/propaganda is produced, never fail to reference the original source being quoted, disqualifying an opponent's revision of an original statement and disqualifying "unnamed sources" as an ultimate authority of the original. The SCOAMF provides a good case in point, incredibly producing constantly changing accounts of one specific incident.

286

>>cat piss has random links in 99% of her comments and claims to be very religious.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez Is On The Newt Train Whether Beck Likes It Or Not at December 09, 2011 09:40 AM (yAor6)

It was a comparison not a lineup ID.

Random is a disingenuous troll name. This thing gets too busy for "random" comments, and is at a minimum the same variety of attention whore with nothing to peddle but misdirected misdirection.

But as with curious people are wising up.

287 Perry was also endorsed by the head of the NH Right to Life. I think it might have been the same day Mitt pulled the oh-so-wonderful Leeza Meercatski endorsement. 

I simply do not understand the objection to Perry's 'Christmas' ad. I've watched it several times and even from my perspective (a person who wants a secular government) I find nothing wrong with it.  It doesn't 'speak' to me, but it doesn't upset me either. 

Since we know that Perry would weaken, not strengthen, the Dept of Education, I am wondering how anyone could interpret that ad as a sign Perry would push for prayer in schools from the federal level.  He might (let's face it, would) appoint judges who would be more open to that at a local level, but where's the problem in that?

And since when is objecting to how this administration pushed for the repeal of DADT some sort of disqualifier in the GOP primary? 

288 >>Jesus Christ ...instituted baptism for all; but the application of this means of salvation, so far as relates to children who die before the use of reason, is not prevented by the direct will of God, but by a merely permissive will....<< *Phew!* I got baptized about 3 times before I hit 18, 2 of them on my own my own dime. (Hey! There is NOTHING wrong in switching from Methodist to Lutheran when you are 14yrs. old!) So, I'm good... Right?

289 This stuff with the drones are why meat pilots will never be displaced. There is no remote control that cannot be cracked, jammed, or overridden. This could not happen with a protien pilot in control and sitting in the vehicle.

290

...I said "keep your faith intact," remember? As in, Salvation by Faith alone? That was the only work I was describing, if maintaining faith can be considered a work.

Ahh, okay I misunderstood. 

You know, it's so soothing being a Cubs fan.  The Cubs do things to pretend they want to win but I know, with certainty, that all they'll do is break my heart.

291 me too or New York Posted by: AuthorLMendez Is On The Newt Train Whether Beck Likes It Or Not at December 09, 2011 09:48 AM (yAor6) Well the Yankees really had no place for him. With big contracts to Texiera and A-Rod already.

292 I strung together a few of the 'Professional ' candidates, major flubs, gaffes, or annoying c.v. details, If you think this is a serious campaign against the SCOAMF. you're fooling yourself.

293 285 I think we can bank on it that the Russians or Chinese were the ones that hacked our remote control of the drone, enabling them to land it intact. I don't understand why we don't have some sort of self-destruct mechanism on those things. It's really frustrating.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 09, 2011 09:41 AM (niZvt)

Well, if the Chinese have it we can expect that any attempts they make to replicate it will be fraught with shoddy workmanship.  They can't even build a fricking alarm clock that doesn't break within a year of purchase, let alone a high tech military drone. 

Not to mention all the corruption and bribery at all levels of the Chinese military establishment, particularly around R&D. 

As for the Russians... maybe they'll trade it back to us for a year's supply of Grey Goose and several ocean liners packed with Pall Malls?

294 Here is some good news for a change! You will, as it turns out, NEVER get too smart and take over the world! http://tinyurl.com/cre9asc

295 There was some very disturbing stuff in his newsletters, iirc.

Again....

296 This stuff with the drones are why meat pilots will never be displaced. There is no remote control that cannot be cracked, jammed, or overridden. This could not happen with a protien pilot in control and sitting in the vehicle. Posted by: maddogg at December 09, 2011 09:52 AM (OlN4e) Your absolutely correct ( dead serious). Maybe the pilots union was behind this ( just kidding)

297 "FWIW- Aborted children are Martyrs.  As such they go directly to Heaven."

The only possible equitable* way for God to handle the whole aborted/innocent-young-couldn't-decide-yet-about-Jesus dead children thing that I can think of is this:

Young child dies --> soul is reborn as a new human being (but the abortionist or murderer is still evil for both their intention and for trying to thwart God's plan for that child).

That actually makes sense! ... and, of course, very few Christians believe anything like it.
 
 
*That said, I don't God's much about equitability.

298 Sorry, but I find it repulsive to watch Micheal Wilbon suck Labron's cock on television.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 09, 2011 09:52 AM (OWjjx)

hey now, Heat all the way this year. Bring on the hate

299 I'm not saying there are no problems with pilots. I'm just saying that if the remote controls are hacked, your whole fleet is compromised.

300 racist conspiracy theorists with disastrous foreign policy and economic views

I agree with everything Gabe wrote until he got to that last 'and'.   Searched the comments but couldn't find Gabe supporting his opinion of the head Ronulan's economic views, which are pure awesomeness wrapped in bacon.

301 I am wondering how anyone could interpret that ad as a sign Perry would push for prayer in schools from the federal level.

How could anyone interpret that ad in such a way as to twist it? More to the point, why would anyone?

302 An important new study, concerning the effects of being smacked in the mouth with a tree branch, will let us all sleep more soundly! Ain't Friday good news great?! http://tinyurl.com/7n37kso

303 Umm, I don't know what kind of fundamentalist Christianity you are discussing since a cornerstone of fundamentalism is that you cannot be saved by works and are saved by faith in the redemming blood of Christ alone. You are disqualified for pointing to the spectacle of Random dry-humping his strawman version of what he thinks Christianity is versus as it is actually practiced. Bad form.

304 I do like cucumber on my salad ...

305 182 I've probably missed you now - got sidetracked reading some news, but my daughter has picked California

Good luck to her.  The little bit of California I've seen is beautiful. I rented a car in Santa Clara and drove the coast highway south. Such a contrast to the east coast!

I wandered away, too, and found this tidbit I'd forgotten: while president W spent Christmas at Camp David each year so his staff could spend time at home with their families.Compare and contrast to SCOAMF.

306 Gabe,

If you're on this thread, could you opine about whether or not you found the Perry ad to be over some line in terms of offensiveness?  IIRC you had been supporting Perry but were also firmly for repeal of DADT. 

I think the intent of the ad was to highlight that 'tolerance' is applied in a very specific way by Obama, to the exclusion of tolerance toward Christian ideals.  It is not how I would have framed that argument, but I didn't see it as some sort of anti-gay dog whistle. Certainly didn't rise to the level of dropping him as my top candidate. 

307 Disasterous foreign policy huh? It 's called the Monroe doctrine you ass.

308 60

I understand why the perpetually-outraged hyper-emos on the Left would be apoplectic about Perry's ad, but not why anybody on the Right would be.

You might think it was a bad ad, but I don't know why it would elicit such emotion.

Posted by: Jingo at December 09, 2011 07:46 AM (mdwWR)

Exactly. In this day and age, I guess saying anything less than "gays are the awesome and the best" is a grievous insult.  Can't possibly allow anyone to have any lesser opinion.

So, Perry, who has been accused of being gay repeatedly by the left (including their gay allies) is now suddenly being slurred as anti-gay? Gee, wonder why he doesn't have the warm-fuzzy feelings for the gay left?

309 That said, I don't God's much about equitability.

Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 09:54 AM (YiE0S)

I don't much about your opinion.

310

Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2011 10:00 AM (5H6zj)

I cant speak for my least fav co-blogger on the blog but I have to say as someone who is a Newt guy (for now), FOR gay marriage, and FOR the repeal of DADT I was not offended by the ad in any way, shape, or form. It's Iowa.

311 Gabe,

"I think the intent of the ad was to highlight that 'tolerance' is applied in a very specific way by Obama, to the exclusion of tolerance toward Christian ideals.  It is not how I would have framed that argument, but I didn't see it as some sort of anti-gay dog whistle. Certainly didn't rise to the level of dropping him as my top candidate. ..."

Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2011 10:00 AM (5H6zj)

 Also note approving vs. disapproving gestures during reading of script.

312 Every single Republican should be loudly calling for don't ask don't tell to be reintroduced as policy.

313

I strongly agree with that. Indeed, I can't think of a good religious reason not to abort children en masse, since they could hardly have sinned in the womb and, if the worldview is correct, I don't see how this doesn't send them straight to heaven. Or something. So while I'm glad religious people join me, I've never quite understood why (unless, deep down, most people don't really, actually, literally believe their faith, which, wrongly or rightly, I suspect is so).

You're a moron.  Also an idiot.  I mean, its possible that all religious people everywhere are really just hypocrites, but its also possible that they just have a different viewpoint than you.  Like, maybe, they literally believe in the part of their faith that says you have to keep the commandments.  Thou shalt not kill, anyone?

To put it more philosophically, one of the fundamental divides between personality types is whether they are mainly consequentialist in their instincts (actions are good or bad only based on their consequences) or whether they also have ontological instincts (actions can be good or bad in themselves).  Your criticism only makes sense if religious people are mainly consequentialist.  But in fact the personality types that have some ontological instincts are more likely to be religious.  The personality types that are more likely to be consequentialist/autistic are more likely to be non-religious.

So you are calling religious people hypocrites for not having an atheist world view.  Um, no, I think we're pretty open about that.

314  Also note approving vs. disapproving gestures during reading of script.

Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 10:03 AM (YiE0S)

--

Yeah, you're the ass who's voting based on body language.  We get it. 

315 And while all of you are prattling about Rick Perry trying to ban cucumbers or something,  UK PM Cameron grew a bit of backbone and made sure there won't be an EU-wide capitulation to fiscal union.

Personally, I think that if Greece et al are expecting the Germans to prop them up they better be prepared to slap "Property of Deutschland" stickers on everything.  Maybe it's time for the Spaniards and Italians to start hopping in boats and sailing off to Africa, maybe the Chinese will hire them to work the mines.

316 This stuff with the drones are why meat pilots will never be displaced. There is no remote control that cannot be cracked, jammed, or overridden. This could not happen with a protien pilot in control and sitting in the vehicle. Then how did we get a bunch of shiny new MIGs during the Cold War?

317 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2011 09:58 AM (0yt4x) See my reply in 288, Jeff. BTW, I never claimed to be a qualified theologian, just I was thinking out loud something the majority of Mainline churches and the Jesuits "dry hump" all the time.

318 324 I do like cucumber on my salad ... Posted by: Honey Badger at December 09, 2011 09:58 AM (GvYeG) Want me to toss that for you?

319

I don't follow baseball, but allow me a moment to say: 

What the HELL were the Marlins thinking, giving Pujols a 10 year, $254 million contract!??!?!  Do they actually think he'll be productive for that long?  Does ANYONE believe that?  Christmas on a bicycle!

I will not turn it on again until the NBA season is over. Sorry, but I find it repulsive to watch Micheal Wilbon suck Labron's cock on television.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 09, 2011 09:52 AM (OWjjx)

I have said before, and I will say it again: if the NBA lockout had forced the league to cancel the whole season, I would have thrown a party and celebrated like I will the night Obama is tossed out of office.  I was actually close to heartbroken when I learned the lockout had ended.  I really, truly despise the NBA.  Once upon a time it may have been a skills based game, but these days it's all about the personalities, and 95% of the personalities are pieces of narcissistic shit.  And if you know shit, you know it has no reason to be narcissistic.  Because it is shit.

320 Uh, the Marlins didn't sign Pujols, the Angels did.

321 >>See my reply in 288, Jeff. BTW, I never claimed to be a qualified theologian

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?


Hey, TGIF!  Anyone have plans for the weekend?  Mr Y-not and I are going to see the Blue Man Group. 

322 And since when is objecting to how this administration pushed for the repeal of DADT some sort of disqualifier in the GOP primary? 

Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2011 09:50 AM (5H6zj)

OK, near as I can figure it, people who are "pro-gay rights" actually view gays as children who need psychological validation.  What is gay marriage all about? Psychological validation. In every jurisdiction around the world where it's been tried, there's very little participation among gays (after the initial flurry of 60-year old lesbians making a statement) and actual marriage rates plummet.

When it comes to the repeal of DADT, it's claiming that homosexuality is not a genuine sexual desire, but some sort of fetish. You can't barrack homosexuals together without creating some sexual tension. We sex segregate for a reason. But why repeal it? Even the so-called rights arguments are nothing more than psychological validation.

It's also why nobody says boo about civilian employees of the DoD and never has. It's not, a priori, a barrier to a security clearance.

But what makes the ad crude is that it dares to mention gays in the military as an attempt to draw attention to himself. The Perry camp has made the calculation that nobody talks about him, and this is an attempt to do that.

323 Well.  Now that we have that theological discussion done with...

XKCD presents, the Boomers' middle finger to Christmas music.

324 I was actually close to heartbroken when I learned the lockout had ended.

I wasn't, when I heard that they had to dissolve the union to do it.

325 I wasn't replying to you, CC. If you REALLY have questions about your faith, this is the wrong place. If I felt you were being a dickish troll like Random, I'd have said so. But I know you better than that.

326 FWIW- Aborted children are Martyrs. As such they go directly to Heaven.

Posted by: Nighthawk at December 09, 2011 09:48 AM (OtQXp)

And that makes it a round trip.

327 (unless, deep down, most people don't really, actually, literally believe their faith, which, wrongly or rightly, I suspect is so)

Wow, I marvel at your amazing powers to judge billions of people worldwide and actually be able to discern what they really think, how strongly they think it and whether or not and to what degree they believe what their faith tells them. 

328

I have said before, and I will say it again: if the NBA lockout had forced the league to cancel the whole season, I would have thrown a party and celebrated like I will the night Obama is tossed out of office.  I was actually close to heartbroken when I learned the lockout had ended.  I really, truly despise the NBA. 

oh come on the NBA is my saving grace for my sports life right now. My Baseball team ain't playing, my Football team has lost 6 straight after a 4-2 start w/ an amateur as a coach, and my Hockey team after coming 1 goal and 1 guy not being suspended though he should have from a Stanley Cup appearance, my last hope is another Heat championship run.

329 Damn, doomless Friday and no Vic. Might as well try and do some work. Good day to all.

330 Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2011 10:09 AM

So is one bad ad a reason to drop a candidate? 

331 Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night? Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2011 10:09 AM (5H6zj) No, but I played one on TV! :8

332 So much for the big tent, eh, Gabriel? Obama is really preferable to Paul? And what would it say to you if the GOP, fairly and legally and with all due process and no hijunks, chose Paul as its candidate? Could you stay in such a party? Where would you go?

333 Hey, TGIF!  Anyone have plans for the weekend?  Mr Y-not and I are going to see the Blue Man Group. 

Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2011 10:09 AM (5H6zj)

*shrugs*

Christmas shopping, maybe more

334 off, disgusting sock...

335 Cool Czech and anyone else interested, please see 316.

While I'm unaware of any theological authority for this idea, doesn't it neatly solve the problem?

It would allow one to maintain that it's evil to murder children and to still give the child's soul the same Earth-bound life-test of worthiness by acceptance of Jesus that Christian doctrine maintains is essential to get into Heaven.

It solves the problem completely, even from a religious standpoint.

I'm not saying that IS God's reasoning, but it should be.

336 @346: thanks for the clarification, Jeff.

337 I'm not saying that IS God's reasoning, but it should be.

Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 10:13 AM (YiE0S)

I repeat...we are in the presence of perfection.

338 I like college basketball, especially the undefeated Mizzou Tigers, but absolutely loathe the NBA. As far as I can tell, it's just a bunch of overpaid gangbangers strolling up and down the court refusing to play anything approximating defense simply warming up for the after-game strip-club parties and shootings. Fuck em'.

339

This could not happen with a protien pilot in control and sitting in the vehicle.
Posted by: maddogg at December 09, 2011 09:52 AM (OlN4e)

I know you meant "protein pilot," but I keep reading that as "protean pilot."  I now have this unshakeable image of a large, jelly-like amoeba poured into a flight suit trying to pilot a multimillion dollar plane. 

Which is ridiculous, of course.  Michael Moore would never fit in a flight suit.

340

oh come on the NBA is my saving grace for my sports life right now. My Baseball team ain't playing, my Football team has lost 6 straight after a 4-2 start w/ an amateur as a coach, and my Hockey team after coming 1 goal and 1 guy not being suspended though he should have from a Stanley Cup appearance sucks this year, my last hope is another Heat championship run.

Fixed

341 I need some advice. Remember how angry everyone was the day Obamacare passed? People on here were pissed off. Some were despondent. There were dramatice headlines: America Repealed! and comments like, 1776-2010. A lot of tjat anger helped bring about the GOP wave if 2010. So for those here that were so pissed that Obamacare passed and now support Mitt or Newt, I would like some advice. How do you bridge the gap in your mind? How do you convince yourself that you're not a hypocrite? Because I am having trouble believing that if you were so opposed to Obamacare nearly two years ago, you would be so willing to support a candidate that thinks the mandate is a great idea.

342 "So is one bad ad a reason to drop a candidate?"

Maybe not, but polling in the doldrums, blowing debates, being at best so/so in interviews, and then running a bad ad that is offensive to both gays and active serving military members during wartime ....

I did start out excited by Perry's entry, but you know, he just hasn't come close to meeting expectations. I wanted him to, but want ain't a plan.

343 Because I am having trouble believing that if you were so opposed to Obamacare nearly two years ago, you would be so willing to support a candidate that thinks the mandate is a great idea.

Posted by: Joffen at December 09, 2011 10:15 AM (zLeKL)

the real question is why does the field suck so bad?

344 Who cares if Perry offends gays? It's not like they're his natural constituency anyway.

345 Then how did we get a bunch of shiny new MIGs during the Cold War? Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2011 10:05 AM (WkuV6) YOur not seriously comparing US and Allied Pilots to COmmie and Arab Pilots are you?

346 Hey, TGIF!  Anyone have plans for the weekend?  Mr Y-not and I are going to see the Blue Man Group. 

Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2011 10:09 AM (5H6zj)

*shrugs*

Christmas shopping, maybe more

Christmas cookie baking at my house. And I'm the chief taste tester .

347 Who cares if Perry offends gays?

It's not like they're his natural constituency anyway.

Posted by: Dave at December 09, 2011 10:17 AM (Xm1aB)

ha! THIS

348

Wouldn't aborting the Cubs next season be the best possible outcome for Cubs fans? Then they could go instantly into 'wait till nest year' mode without enduring the passion play that is the Cubs regular season.
Or,

The Catholic Church didn't get rid of Limo. They renamed it  'Wrigley field'.

I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

349 No, Author. The real question is why are so many willing to give up their principles so easily? Perry is a pretty great candidate and his views are pretty consistent. He has the best executive experience out of everyone. But no, let's go with someone that thought an individual mandate was a great idea.

350 OK, near as I can figure it, people who are "pro-gay rights" actually view gays as children who need psychological validation.  What is gay marriage all about? Psychological validation. One of the "factual" findings that stealth homosexual Judge Vaughan Walker inserted into his ruling striking down Prop 8 was that "domestic partnerships lack the social meaning associated with marriage, and marriage is widely regarded (by whom?) as the definitive expression of love and committment in the United States." Anyone who tells you that there is no gay agenda to force acceptance and approval of their sexual proclivities on society is a lying piece of shit.

351

How do you bridge the gap in your mind? How do you convince yourself that you're not a hypocrite? Because I am having trouble believing that if you were so opposed to Obamacare nearly two years ago, you would be so willing to support a candidate that thinks the mandate is a great idea.

I think the key is to remember that willing in this case means more oh look I'm lying (laying?) here thinking of England whilst pulling the lever.  See also feeling like The Chicken. 

352 Rats feel empathy; ergo, study proves that Dem's are rats! Please, tighten the straps on your mental-mush protectors prior to reading. http://tinyurl.com/88od4rs

353 FoolBeck : You're wrong, of course.

Why do people knowingly post random BS about things they don't know - do they enjoy being exposed as ignoramuses?

354

Perry is a pretty great candidate and his views are pretty consistent. He has the best executive experience out of everyone.

well except that he can't articulate those views w/o stuttering and mumbling his way and can't even get the name of a blog he cites right. just saying.

355 Personally, I think that if Greece et al are expecting the Germans to prop them up they better be prepared to slap "Property of Deutschland" stickers on everything.  Maybe it's time for the Spaniards and Italians to start hopping in boats and sailing off to Africa, maybe the Chinese will hire them to work the mines.

Posted by: JEM at December 09, 2011 10:05 AM (o+SC1)

HAH!  The Chinese would never take them because Mediterranean Europeans are too lazy, and the Africans don't want them because their continent has enough problems with venereal disease already and doesn't need any more.

I do wonder what will happen to pissant little countries like Greece, and pissant big countries like Spain, when they fall.  And they WILL fall.  Will they just be absorbed into one of their neighboring countries?  Will they band together to form some kind of sprawling proto-country of monumental suck?  Will they sink into the ocean, never to be heard from again and hardly missed?

You know, back in the day failing nations were taken over by stronger nations.  It was called "being conquered."  Too bad that's taboo these days.

356 Posted by: Random at December 09, 2011 10:13 AM (YiE0S)

Random, God actually has the trait you think you possess - he knows everything.

So his judgements on things are a bit better than ours.  Wherever he sends a newborn who dies without being baptized, that's where it belongs.  We can design all manner of complicated bureaucracies to handle the afterlife and they aren't as good as what God does.

357 Disgusting,

...and when the populace as a whole determines that the government is no longer acting in it's defense, ordinary men and women will rise up and correct the perceived injustices.

358 Author: with all due respect, that's a cop out. He really didn't do as bad as people say and he has been improving.

359 Man Claims He Signed 80 Walker Recall Petitions

360

Anyone who tells you that there is no gay agenda to force acceptance and approval of their sexual proclivities on society is a lying piece of shit.

meh, kinda agree and kinda dont. Look im for gay marriage but I do believe its abnormal, sinful, and that there is an agenda to force folks to accept it. However my entire approach to being for it has nothing to do w/ making people accept their behavior.

361 joffen Maybe Perry didn't do as bad as "people say." But the fact that people are saying it reminds me of the old saying "perception is reality."

362

Gabe,

If you're on this thread, could you opine about whether or not you found the Perry ad to be over some line in terms of offensiveness? IIRC you had been supporting Perry but were also firmly for repeal of DADT.

I think the intent of the ad was to highlight that 'tolerance' is applied in a very specific way by Obama, to the exclusion of tolerance toward Christian ideals. It is not how I would have framed that argument, but I didn't see it as some sort of anti-gay dog whistle. Certainly didn't rise to the level of dropping him as my top candidate. 

 

Do I think it was "OMG, what a bigot"-levels of offensive? No, I do not. As others noted above, this was Perry targeting a specific group of Iowans in the hopes that it will boost him. I think he will find that this approach will bring him as much success as the other Rick that tried it. (Read: none.) Particularly since even among the GOP a plurality were in favor of DADT repeal.

And while I do not find it bigot-level offensive, it certainly is distasteful. Suggesting troops who place themselves in harm's way are part of "something wrong in this country" was a very bad move, and you don't have to be gay or a liberal to see that. Framing is everything. Perry said: "but you don't need to be in the pew every Sunday to know there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school."

What he should have said, if he really believed this was a road he wanted to go down: "If this great country can tolerate gays openly in the military, it can tolerate kids openly celebrating Christmas and praying in school." This alternative would have preserved his dog-whistle to the Iowans who still get het up over out gays in the military and also his plea for Christians, which enjoys much broader support. And it would have dropped his exceptionally negative "something wrong in this country" language that provoked such a backlash.

The bottom line: Perry's ad was so bad that it can't even be said to have resulted in a wash: no gain or loss. Instead, Perry's ad was so bad---and the enormous media and blog coverage it has now received has been so negative (seriously, has any blog defended it?)---that it probably will have cost him votes and not just in Iowa. This was a stupid move, and he should have listened to the advisors telling him not to make it.

If Perry were smart, he'd axe one or more of the folks who told him this was a good idea, "the way to get back in it." But I don't expect that. He has been constently loyal to his Old Guard and he's consistently performed poorly because of it.

363 Newt and Mitt both looked at the idea of government forcing citizens to purchase something and said, "there's a great idea!"

364 You were talking about Supernova's, right?! It turns out that these things happen all of the time. Explosive news, no?! http://tinyurl.com/74jaefb

365 He really didn't do as bad as people say and he has been improving.

Well someone give Perry a gold star.

366 >>The Perry camp has made the calculation that nobody talks about him, and this is an attempt to do that.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2011 10:09 AM (T0NGe)

My take as well.

And possible miscalculation aside, that wouldn't be a bad thing, since Newt and Mitt are the same thing politically in different wardrobes.

367 Then how did we get a bunch of shiny new MIGs during the Cold War?

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2011 10:05 AM (WkuV6)

If your pilots are escaping a totalitarian, soul crushing regime, drones may be the only answer. That is one of the problems with human pilots.

368 The truth of the matter is that homosexuality is a sin, just like lying, adultery, etc. It is also a public health issue. We should not be disparaging marriage and encouraging deviant behaviour by legalizing so-called gay marriage. Period.

369 If this great country can tolerate gays openly in the military

But Gabe, it isn't a matter of toleration, it's a matter of barracking.

This is why nobody says anything about civilian employees of the DoD.

370 racist conspiracy theorists with disastrous foreign policy and economic views*

Oh, those Austrian Economists! Those Jews whom Keynesians* hate!

As if every Keynesian must therefore be antisemitic. As if one "Jewish" economic school must be antisemitic for being different from another "Jewish" economic school of thought. As if all Jews are of one ideology. As if any ideology is totally monopolized by one specific genetic race. As if to believe in limited governance is to be antisemitic. As if Ron Paul hasn't already been endorsed by an Israeli Zionist in Israeli mainstream news as the best Zionist choice to become the next US President. As if Ron Paul's foreign policy isn't substantiated by Arutz Sheva, and by Meir Dagan. As if any different approach than neoconservatism (or whatever else being touted) is antisemitic. As if any who disagree with the economics, politics or military designs of Benjamin Netanyahu and Ehud Barak are antisemitic. As if any who politically align with Ron Paul must be antisemitic despite being Israeli, a Zionist, or not.

But then, you'd have to bother researching.

As far as Ron Paul's alliances? Murray Rothbard and so many others associated with the Mises Institute are counted as Ron Paul's strong friends.

Go figure. If you're going to trust a source, take the trouble of verifying. Ignorance is not bliss. Case in point, Obama '08.
 

371 YOur not seriously comparing US and Allied Pilots to COmmie and Arab Pilots are you? No, the issue is that meat pilots aren't infallible. The poster said that meat pilot would have never landed in Iran, when during the cold war it happened several times.

372 Our Military Is THIS Stupid? Yes, and it isn't just the military. The entire Information Assurance industry has been dominated by bureaucracy and regulation. It's much like Sarbanes-Oxley was for the six years between signing and the emergence of generally agreed upon practices emerged: An ever-lengthening checklist of ever-lengthening checklists. While I know that there are enclaves of flat-out genius whitehats out there on the bleeding edge of information security defense and hardening, they have little or nothing to do with the IA industry. IA is infested with the busybodies who really believed they deserved extra points for effort, and they measure their success by the pound of paperwork they produce and file, the man hours they waste in meetings, and the number of nonsensical jargon terms they invent to replace words we already have in our language. Put effective results on the back burner, and this is what you get. FWIW, I am holding out hope that this drone was a Trojan Horse.

373 >>Being retired military, I can tell you that Newt and persons like him would not achieve high rank because he could not stand the physical demands of the job.<< Big Deal. I'm a nerd, just like Newt. Sometime, in my mid to late '20's, I had a "hard-ass", Navy guy, in charge of my training and my Certification. He was busy getting married to a Dutch girl for 3 months and I got busy working and *training* my own ass. I still take it as a point of pride, that I was able to swim, open water, 7 miles, and *exceed * Navy standards set by 18 yr old Mesomorphs in gentle swimming pools, in the 1960's. *Heee!* I WORKED for that result, BTW. I'm not that fast. I'm not that tough. I AM kinda smart and... I AM fucking stubborn ! I WILL figure this shit out... ...believe it, buddy

374 @383 Bullshit. Perry's ad was excellent.

375 This is why nobody says anything about civilian employees of the DoD. Posted by: AmishDude at December 09, 2011 10:28 AM (T0NGe) For the record not many people in the Military said much about Gay members of the Military before the repeal of don't ask don't tell. It wasn't that big as deal , except to the activists on the outside

376 Three terms as Governor and the most conservative record of all the candidates? Hell no! Let's throw our support behind Romneycare and sitting on a couch beside Pelosi to support climate change!

377 it isn't a matter of toleration, it's a matter of barracking Baracking.

(?)

378

he truth of the matter is that homosexuality is a sin, just like lying, adultery, etc.

agreed.

We should not be disparaging marriage and encouraging deviant behaviour by legalizing so-called gay marriage.

then why is adulterey and lying not illegal as well? I mean I dont want to encourage adulterey but I dont want it to be illegal either

379 The poster said that meat pilot would have never landed in Iran, when during the cold war it happened several times. Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2011 10:30 AM (WkuV6) Not Western Pilots, and certainly not American Pilots

380 This was a stupid move, and he should have listened to the advisors telling him not to make it.

I disagree.  Yes, it was clearly the result of advisers, but the ad was Perry's attempt to wave his arms and say, "look at me."

But his advisers picked the wrong issue.  Iowa is the state in which same-sex marriage was imposed by judicial fiat and 3 judges were tossed out in retention elections.  He could have reminded Iowans of that and made it an anti-judicial-supremacy (and, sub rosa, anti-lawyer) argument to boot.

One of the smaller problems Perry has is that too much of his team are Texans.

381 From Legal Insurrection:

The attacks on Newt Gingrich from the Romney campaign and it supporters in the Beltway political and media echelons have become quite personal.

The fervor reminds me not so much of a heated argument on the merits, but of a child custody proceeding in which Romney seeks to have Newt not only lose custody of his putative nomination but also be declared an unfit parent due to mental illness.

382

Cool Czech,

my quick orthodox answer is that (1) death and murder are wrong in themselves, not just because of their consequences and (2) Christians are supposed to value what God values: (a) God values obedience, and we have been commanded not to kill, (b) God values justice, and killing the innocent is unjust, (c) God values the free choice to embrace him even at the risk that some people won't, which babies don't have.

Because of the above, my highly heterodox answer is that babies are probably reincarnated or resurrected into a mortal existence like Lazarus:

http://tinyurl.com/77z4vjq

 

383 I got baptized about 3 times before I hit 18, 2 of them on my own my own dime. ----------------------------- Only the first one counts. You get no extra credit from the Lord for your love of water. :-)

384 Anyone who tells you that there is no gay agenda to force acceptance and approval of their sexual proclivities on society is a lying piece of shit. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 09, 2011 10:21 AM (vzFJV) That's the annoying thing about the Gay Movement. Its members on the one hand go so far as to deny there even is such a thing as a "gay agenda," and yet they push it extremely aggressively. It's not enough to be "Left Alone." It's not enough to get all the benefits of marriage (i.e., Civil Unions). No, they actually want to get inside everyone's minds and somehow force them to feel about homosexuality exactly like they do.

385 Morning all, We were woken up by a horrendous hissing from our HVAC unit and then the house filled with smoke in minutes. So my PSA for the morning is, when the house fills with smoke, don't try to fix things yourself, get out and call the fire department. Also, routine HVAC checks. We're fine, but the freon pipe started leaking and short circuited the whole system. I know most morons are fanatical about checking their stuff, but I'm just giving a reminder. No one needs an alarm like that. And smoke fills the house much quicker than I expected. That was the scary part. And back on topic, I thought Perry's ad was a little cringe-worthy, just because people could easily misinterpret it. I do think he was trying to point out inconsistencies in Obama's "tolerance", but he opened the door for the leftists to scream about him being a homophobe. Not that they need much of a reason for calling someone a hater. If you disagree with them about anything, you are racist/homophobic/misogynistic/against puppies.

386 "But Gabe, it isn't a matter of toleration, it's a matter of barracking."

The Israelis, Brits, Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders manage. The Spartans did alright.

You know what? I go to public swimming pools. Guess what happens. I see a lot of dick, balls, and ass. Some of those are gay. And you know what, I pretty much ignore them.

But when I get into that swimming pool, all that sweet fine lady flesh in wet swimming suits can grab my attention in about a quarter second.

I don't think your average soldier is much different.

387 Who are Perry's advisers?

388

Who cares if Perry offends gays?

It's not like they're his natural constituency anyway.

 

If you were talking about any other candidate, I would facetiously encourage you to push that argument. But, since I like Perry, let me just say that Perry didn't just offend gays. He offended everyone who doesn't view gay servicemembers with horror, that is a majority of the voters in this country.

Saying things that a majority of voters disagree with is not a smart path to the White House.

389 Author, maybe the mandate in Obamacare isn't a big deal to you? If that's the case, I can respect that. If not, I don't understand were your head is at.

390 The poster said that meat pilot would have never landed in Iran, when during the cold war it happened several times.

US Pilots never landed in enemy territory. Ask McCain.

391 a heck i have a google feature, I'll  look it up.

392 @402 Adultery was a criminal offense at one time in the states, IIRC. I suspect those laws went by the wayside because of evolving moral standards. While I am not certain, I believe some states still provide a civil claim for adultery termed alienation of affection. The laws concerning gay marriage may be modified as well for the same reason, but that doesn't make it right.

393 Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 09, 2011 10:26 AM

Thanks, Gabe.  So you're dropping him, I take it.  In favor of whom?

Re DADT: I checked the polling a couple of days ago and the December PEW had GOP voters 40-44 (for repeal vs against repeal) with an over 2:1 majority of conservatives opposing repeal. 

Re defending the ad:

"We all know about the report of the Obama Administration saying it will check to see what countries are doing on the gay rights front to make sure gays are not being persecuted. But at the same time the Obama Administration has decided to not reauthorize the bipartisan U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom.

The Commission investigates religious liberty issues around the world and informs the State Department about nations persecuting people because of religion, including Christians.

In other words, weÂ’re going to start checking up on how countries treat gays and lesbians, but Obama wants to shut down the Commission that investigates how countries treat citizens who believe in God."

To me, I did not see it as an attack on gays, certainly not on gays serving in the military.  I do not believe for one second that Rick Perry, a veteran who clearly holds the military in high regard, had any intention of doing that.  It was an attack on the policy, something I think is a very defensible position. 

The over-reaction to this ad reminds me of the Prop 8 battle.  Very much based on emotion and trying to demonize people who hold a traditional view. 

394 For the record not many people in the Military said much about Gay members of the Military before the repeal of don't ask don't tell. It wasn't that big as deal , except to the activists on the outside

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 09, 2011 10:31 AM (i6RpT)

Yeah, but part of that was that they couldn't serve openly, so there were no JAG complaints by sexual predators.  The bad actors could be immediately dismissed based on the activity alone.

395 You know what? I go to public swimming pools. Guess what happens. I see a lot of dick, balls, and ass. Some of those are gay. And you know what, I pretty much ignore them.

Okay, so why do gays get to shower alongside your all-knowing ass, but you can't shower with women?

396

397

US Pilots never landed in enemy territory. Ask McCain.

So getting shot down is now the same as defection?

398 Author, maybe the mandate in Obamacare isn't a big deal to you? If that's the case, I can respect that. If not, I don't understand were your head is at.

Posted by: Joffen at December 09, 2011 10:35 AM (zLeKL)

my head is that I want to win and Perry stumbling around and Romney flip-flopping aint gonna help

399 Saying things that a majority of voters disagree with is not a smart path to the White House. -------- So...support for the individual mandate should be a major red flag.

400 @407: I don't disagree with most of your points and dislike abortion. I think your answer is better addressed to Random.

401 Adultery was a criminal offense at one time in the states, IIRC. I suspect those laws went by the wayside

Ask the divorce lawyers about that assumption.

402 So Newt never flip-flopped? Maybe. Has he been consistent on his support for climate change and a mandate?

403

No one needs an alarm like that. And smoke fills the house much quicker than I expected. That was the scary part.

moki, did you and yours get checked out for smoke inhalation and possible CO exposure?  That's nothing to muck about with.  Glad you're safe.

Random thought of the moment:  I wonder if sticking with the Old Guard is a Texan thing.  I know there was a lot of criticism of Bush for doing the same. 

404 DIAF Nice.

405 @413 Well good on Perry if the ad reflects his true feelings which I assume it does. If a majority disagrees, then so be it. The alternative is a dishonest candidate. Surely you're not suggesting Perry or any other candidate hide or misrepresent their true feelings on an important issue.

406 Author: What are you trying to win? You suppose a President Romney or Gingrich will have the same quality of judgement that made them agree with climate change, etc?

407 And smoke fills the house much quicker than I expected. That was the scary part.

Oh, yuck, moki. Glad you are okay. We, uh, tested our smoke detectors the other day when the flue closed by itself in the middle of a nice fire. The one in the hallway actually went off before I noticed the smoke and I was only about 8 ft from the fire.

408 US Pilots never landed in enemy territory. I'm pretty sure a US pilot flew to Cuba

409

On the other hand, I would be interested in the details/evidence about Ron Paul's racist conspiracy-mongering.  I know some of his supporters fall into that unsavory class, but I didn't know he himself bought into that stuff.  I would appreciate the details.

There was some very disturbing stuff in his newsletters, iirc

I thought he'd disavowed that?

410 For the record not many people in the Military said much about Gay members of the Military before the repeal of don't ask don't tell. It wasn't that big as deal , except to the activists on the outside I call bullshit. No one I served with would have been comfortable bunking with a gay roommate. The one soldier I know of who found out his roommate was gay was very uncomfortable with it. Especially as he found out by waking up to his roommate molesting him as he slept after a night of drinking. There were obvious poofters that no one was comfortable showering around, getting undressed around, having as a cold-weather buddy or any other situation that required close physical intimacy. Where the fuck are all these combat arms soldiers that are clamoring to spoon a gay squad-mate for warmth in a freezing Korean bunker while at a patrol base? I keep hearing all manner of shit that flies in the face of my experience.

411 my head is that I want to win and Perry stumbling around

Perry's non-apologetic apology promised to repeat the mistake.

"I'll always err on the side of life" alongside BigPharma which incidentally is working to require a doctor's prescription for all things currently available off the counter.

And in referencing McCain's recent legislation, how's the water between Perry and McCain on endorsements?

412 @393

Careful - telling those kind of truths can get you in trouble here.

413 Author: What are you trying to win? You suppose a President Romney or Gingrich will have the same quality of judgement that made them agree with climate change, etc?

Posted by: Joffen at December 09, 2011 10:40 AM (zLeKL)

I suppose theyll do whats right for the country w/ a conservative House and more right leaning Senate. If you want to run a guy who cant articulate even the name of a blog who's commenters are fovarable to him you go on ahead, that's what primaries are for.

414 US Pilots never landed in enemy territory. I'm pretty sure a US pilot flew to Cuba Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2011 10:40 AM (WkuV6) In March 1962, United States Army soldier Sgt.B.J Keesee defected to Cuba in a Piper Comanche.[33] In July 1963, United States Airman Roberto "Robert" Ramos Michelena defected to Cuba in a T-34 training plane.[34] On 21 May 1967, Major Richard Harwood Pearce, a Bronze Star Medal winner in Vietnam who was cleared to handle secret US Army materials, defected to Cuba in a Cessna 150 light plane. Pearce was granted asylum in Cuba.[35] [edit] Not exactly shinny knew military aircraft

415 FWIW- Aborted children are Martyrs.  As such they go directly to Heaven.

Posted by: Nighthawk at December 09, 2011 09:48 AM (OtQXp)

How are they martyrs?  Are the babykiller docs sending ultrasound pings in Morse Code giving the infants a chance to renounce the Christ before the docs fire up the cuisinart vacuum?

416 "He offended everyone who doesn't view gay servicemembers with horror, that is a majority of the voters in this country."

This.

417 My brother is US Army. Three tours in the sandbox. He is getting out because he says he doesn't want to be part of an army where soldiers are walking hand in hand in uniform, among other things.

418 Especially as he found out by waking up to his roommate molesting him as he slept after a night of drinking.

Impossible.  Gays would never force themselves on someone they were attracted to.  Only heterosexual males do that.  Otherwise having openly gay people in same-sex barracks would be a bad idea...

419

There was some very disturbing stuff in his newsletters, iirc

I thought he'd disavowed that?

Paul never thought, advanced or wrote anything antisemitic.

There are uncouth people in all quarters of society, regardless of ideology. As if every comment posted here @AoShq is endorsed by Ace himself.

420 Saying things that a majority of voters disagree with is not a smart path to the White House. A majority of voters doesn't win the WH; recast that poll in terms of voters in the electoral battlegrounds of VA, OH, PA, and FL and I don't think you will be able to declare it "not a smart" path. It might not be the optimal path for the broadest victory, but going ugly early can be a smart move.

421 Author, will they do what's right for the country with a liberal Democrat controlled House and Senate or will they cave? Would a President Perry cave as easily?

422 FWIW, I am holding out hope that this drone was a Trojan Horse. Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at December 09, 2011 10:31 AM (p7SSh) Same here... that thing is just WAY too intact. Maybe we are hoping we track down where they bring it for study and then activate the Self destruct. Wishful thinking, I know... but fuck wouldn't that be sweet?

423 339 vomiting again ....

424 My brother is US Army. Three tours in the sandbox. He is getting out because he says he doesn't want to be part of an army where soldiers are walking hand in hand in uniform, among other things. Posted by: maddogg at December 09, 2011 10:45 AM (OlN4e) Personally I think he is overreacting to this issue. As far as I can see nothing has changed, except the jokes

425 He offended everyone who doesn't view gay servicemembers with horror, that is a majority of the voters in this country.

I think that's an unfair statement and extremely unhelpful to your position. 

And this type of rhetoric - which is what was used during the Prop 8 battle - is why I went from being an agnostic on gay marriage to being firmly against it. 

It is not in the conservative movement's best interests to demonize or otherwise ascribe emotional motivations to people on opposing sides of hot button issues like gay marriage or DADT.  I certainly avoid using inflammatory language of that type when talking about abortion and that's a much more serious issue involving life and death.  If we cannot talk openly with each other about these things and accept that reasonable people disagree, we're going to get nowhere. 

426 Isn't this "great country" "tolerant" enough for mothers to accept men leading girl scout camping trips?

427
Let's see....Ron Paul vs. An America-hating, constitution-breaking, dictator-wannabe, law-breaking, gun-running, economy-killing, narcissist, smug, pedantic, racist, lying marxist.

I'll take my chances with Ron Paul if it comes to that.

428 Author, will they do what's right for the country with a liberal Democrat controlled House and Senate or will they cave? Would a President Perry cave as easily?

Posted by: Joffen at December 09, 2011 10:45 AM (zLeKL)

Romney has a record of caving, not so sure w/ Newt. as for perry he probably wouldnt but he wont win the White House if he keeps the way he's up right now. You cant be President unless you actually win an election.

429 @444 I think even people who are not bothered by the concept of "gay marriage" can see the problem with repealing DADT. So the premise that Perry universally offended folks who don't react to gay service members with "horror" is utter bullshit.

430

It is not in the conservative movement's best interests to demonize or otherwise ascribe emotional motivations to people on opposing sides of hot button issues like gay marriage or DADT.

well ive seen plenty of it on this thread but i'll agree it's a minority

431

Random thought of the moment:  I wonder if sticking with the Old Guard is a Texan thing.  I know there was a lot of criticism of Bush for doing the same. 

Posted by: alexthechick at December 09, 2011 10:38 AM (VtjlW)

I think it's a governor thing.  If you serve a few years as governor, you have a team that you've been through a lot with and, at some point, you say that these are my guys, for better or worse.

432 EoJ, as much as the focus is on gay dudes -- the real problem is over on the female side of the fence.

433 Personally I think he is overreacting to this issue. As far as I can see nothing has changed, except the jokes

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 09, 2011 10:46 AM (i6RpT)

I won't argue that point. The point is that there are soldiers, good soldiers who do strenuously object to the new policy, and they are protesting with their feet.

434

'Horror'. Nice strawman. I see that you once again dodged the point that several of us have made. Homosexual women and men are allowed to billet with one another and with heterosexual personnel. But heterosexual men and women are not allowed to billet together.

Posted by: Random stupidity

I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was obligated to reply to random stupidity. (SWIDT?)

The repeal of DADT changed nothing with respect to whether gay and straight servicemembers are billetting together. They were required to billet together before DADT repeal. And they are required to billet together after repeal. The difference between me and you is that I believe (and the utter lack of disruption confirms that belief) that our servicemembers can handle it without freaking out.

BTW, did you see that the Senate version of the defense authorization bill repeals the criminalization of sodomy in the UCMJ?

435 @459 Well, didn't Perry avoid losing an election for decades with this team? If so, I can see why Perry sticks with them.

436 Where the fuck are all these combat arms soldiers that are clamoring to spoon a gay squad-mate for warmth in a freezing Korean bunker while at a patrol base?

If I remember, poles of combat arms disapproved while overall military approved.

Well there is a hell of a lot of difference between Air Force and Marine Corps barracks.

So different in fact that the Air Force  calls theirs "Dorms". Two to a large room ain't bad when compared to 4 to a small room in Marine Barracks.

But I'm sure there would be no conflict between two heterosexuals and two active homosexuals forced to live in the same 100 or so square feet.

437 Author, he's not winning because people that say they are conservative aren't supporting him. Please read what you just wrote and think about it for a second. You are pretty sure Perry wouldn't cave, yet you won't support him. You're not sure if Newt would cave. Isn't that a pretty big fucken deal?!

438 The point is that there are soldiers, good soldiers who do strenuously object to the new policy, and they are protesting with their feet. Posted by: maddogg at December 09, 2011 10:51 AM (OlN4e) I hear ya, but before they take that plunge into civilian life, I hope they have checked out the job possibilities first.

439 >>The fervor reminds me not so much of a heated argument on the merits, but of a child custody proceeding in which Romney seeks to have Newt not only lose custody of his putative nomination but also be declared an unfit parent due to mental illness.<< Oooh! I think that this might be good! Ugly, but good.

440 @462 Lack of disruption? And on what, pray tell, do you base that ludricous assumption?

441

I think it's a governor thing.  If you serve a few years as governor, you have a team that you've been through a lot with and, at some point, you say that these are my guys, for better or worse.

That does make sense.  Obama surrounding himself with Chicago people was a given considering the very, shall we say, distinct nature of Chicago and Illinois politics.  But it does seem that governors are more prone to that when reaching the White House.  Then again, it may appear that way because it's governors who generally reach the White House.

442 I'm two final exams from graduating.  And it's all going to come down to math. 

443 Alexthechick and Mama AJ, Thanks, we had a bit, but are doing okay. My daughter has asthma, so it triggered an attack, but she is doing fine now. I am just thanking God that we aren't in the North/Northeast, since we can't have the heater on til the HVAC company comes to fix it. I was taken aback by how quickly the house filled with smoke. It was scary fast. I got the kids and pets out, but honestly didn't think the smoke was a big problem until the firemen brought me outside and told me to stay there. Never mess with smoke.

444

Well, didn't Perry avoid losing an election for decades with this team?

If so, I can see why Perry sticks with them.

Posted by: Dave at December 09, 2011 10:51 AM (Xm1aB)

well they better do something quick, 4th place behind Ron Paul is not a winning strategy

445  our servicemembers can handle it without freaking out.

Why can't they handle men and women billeting together again?

446 Wishful thinking, I know... but fuck wouldn't that be sweet? As sweet as that would be, what would be even sweeter is if there are planted flaws that just have to work if only we tinker on the edges a bit that tie-up valuable R&D resources--kind of a technological analog to marxism. The DoD has had a continuously active drone program since WWII. I wonder how many design box canyons the program hit in sixty-plus years.

447 Why can't they handle men and women billeting together again? Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 09, 2011 10:53 AM (FkKjr) nature

448 450, I've seen good landings that damaged the drone more then that. That said, the valuable part of a drone is its optical package and electronics - not the model airplane part. If that is the real drone, not showing the bottom optical package is telling.

449 then why is adulterey and lying not illegal as well? I mean I dont want to encourage adulterey but I dont want it to be illegal either

Posted by: AuthorLMendez Is On The Newt Train Whether Beck Likes It Or Not at December 09, 2011 10:32 AM (yAor6)

Adultery *should* be illegal, IMHO.  At least revive the torts of alienation of affection and make adultery a near dispositive factor in who gets the kids/pays alimony in a divorce.

450 difference between me and you is that I believe (and the utter lack of disruption confirms that belief) that our servicemembers can handle it without freaking out.


Because only an unreasonable hater would be discomfited by the gay sex in the bunk above him.

And DADT at still made that criminal and actionable, Gabe.

451 I hear ya, but before they take that plunge into civilian life, I hope they have checked out the job possibilities first.

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 09, 2011 10:52 AM (i6RpT)

He's been offered a job as a consultant in the sandbox making 3 times his Army pay, so I don't think he is worried about that.

452 FWIW, I am holding out hope that this drone was a Trojan Horse. Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at December 09, 2011 10:31 AM (p7SSh) MY horse ALWAYS wore a Trojan!

453 "To me, I did not see it as an attack on gays, certainly not on gays serving in the military.  I do not believe for one second that Rick Perry, a veteran who clearly holds the military in high regard, had any intention of doing that."

He holds the military in high regard, not gays.

It seemed pretty obvious to me that he sees gays serving openly in the military as part of what's wrong with America (because he said that: "thereÂ’s something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids canÂ’t openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school."). His voice tone and hand gesture indicatedhe didn't approve of gays, or at least, at a minimum, gays in the military.

I believe you're either being disingenuous or aren't allowing yourself to see what is right in front of you, Y-Not.

454 nature

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 09, 2011 10:54 AM (i6RpT)

That means nothing.

455 He's been offered a job as a consultant in the sandbox making 3 times his Army pay, so I don't think he is worried about that. Posted by: maddogg at December 09, 2011 10:55 AM (OlN4e) Good for him.

456 Why can't they handle men and women billeting together again? Ask the Navy, re Pregnancy vs Readiness

457 I love that a Clinton policy ended by Obama is driving a wedge between conservatives. 
/s

458

At least revive the torts of alienation of affection and make adultery a near dispositive factor in who gets the kids/pays alimony in a divorce.

Id agree with the idea of punishing it that way but not making it outright illegal

459 nature Posted by: nevergiveup at December 09, 2011 10:54 AM (i6RpT) That means nothing. Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 09, 2011 10:55 AM (FkKjr) your kidding right?

460 If that is the real drone, not showing the bottom optical package is telling. Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2011 10:54 AM (WkuV6) They probably want to keep us guessing about how much of that they may or may not have gotten. Of course, it's possible that the "self-destruct" measures I wondered about DID work - and destroyed that optical package.

461 437 For the record not many people in the Military said much about Gay members of the Military before the repeal of don't ask don't tell. It wasn't that big as deal , except to the activists on the outside

I call bullshit. No one I served with would have been comfortable bunking with a gay roommate. The one soldier I know of who found out his roommate was gay was very uncomfortable with it. Especially as he found out by waking up to his roommate molesting him as he slept after a night of drinking.

There were obvious poofters that no one was comfortable showering around, getting undressed around, having as a cold-weather buddy or any other situation that required close physical intimacy.

Where the fuck are all these combat arms soldiers that are clamoring to spoon a gay squad-mate for warmth in a freezing Korean bunker while at a patrol base?

I keep hearing all manner of shit that flies in the face of my experience.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December

What I recall from my time in the military is that going against PC was a career-killer.  Most people had very un-PC opinions but knew enough to keep their heads down.  Granted, that was over a decade ago, but I doubt the military has got that much more tolerant of us troglodytes in the interim.

462 Ask the Navy, re Pregnancy vs Readiness

Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2011 10:56 AM (WkuV6)

Damn, if only contraceptives existed.

And thank God homosexual sex doesn't carry any risks whatsoever.

463 He's been offered a job as a consultant in the sandbox making 3 times his Army pay, so I don't think he is worried about that. Hey, Ive been down that road.

464 Ron Paul in Iowa last night-

“Think of what happened after 9/11, the minute before there was any assessment, there was glee in the administration because now we can invade Iraq, and so the war drums beat. That’s exactly what they’re doing now with Iran.”
He might as well say that 9/11 was an inside job.

465 your kidding right?

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 09, 2011 10:56 AM (i6RpT)

No, not really.  Are you saying homosexual sex is more acceptable than heterosexual sex in a military setting, or are you claiming that homosexuals can show more restraint than heterosexuals?

466 Well, Random, I think you're willfully misinterpreting the intention of that sentence by ignoring the juxtaposition between the two clauses.

The fact that you've been relying on body language for your interpretation - and have been trolling about this with so much "concern" on various sites since it came out - tells me what I need to know about you. 

467 Suppose Obamacare passed yesterday. Would people me more or less inclined to support Romney and Newt? I'd bet less. This blog would be on fire with righteous anger. But give it a year or so and these very same people will give their support to Romneycare and Newt.

468 My question is, Where are all those masses and masses of gays and lesbians that were going to storm recruiting stations around the country the MOMENT being openly gay was allowed? I must have missed CBS's breathless coverage of the gay multitudes surrounding the local recruiting station.

469 "But I'm sure there would be no conflict between two heterosexuals and two active homosexuals forced to live in the same 100 or so square feet."

I don't know if you realize this or not, but homosexuals have served forever, and have been allowed to serve, in secret, since Clinton. Openly allowing gays to serve gives the chain of command better ability to arrange quarters assignments.

It isn't as if 50% of the military is homosexual.

470 He might as well say that 9/11 was an inside job.

Posted by: Miss'80s at December 09, 2011 10:58 AM (d6QMz)

seriously why is Paul running for the GOP nomination? he dissed Reagan at the guys own library in front of his wife, and then goes of on 9/11 truther rants. Paul has no reason to be running for the Republican nomination. sorry Drudge.

471 This blog would be on fire with righteous anger. But give it a year or so and these very same people will give their support to Romneycare and Newt.

Posted by: Joffen at December 09, 2011 10:59 AM (zLeKL)

*facepalm*

and Hot Gas polls say that right?

472 EoJ, as much as the focus is on gay dudes -- the real problem is over on the female side of the fence. That may be, but I was an infantryman. As such, the only time I ever saw a female in uniform was at the chow hall or if an electronics tech was sent down to perform depot-level maintenance on one of the TOW missile systems. We didn't even have female mechanics in our motor pool. And yet, after the Drill Sergeant rape "crisis" at Fort Jackson, we still had to sit through hours of sexual harassment classes. I shudder to think what classes today's grunts must endure.

473 Actually, given how hard it would be anyone to build a copy of that drone even with the original in their hands, perhaps the most worrisome thing about it's capture is that it will now be used against OUR troops - and particularly, the leadership of our army and the Afghan government in Kabul.

474 Especially as he found out by waking up to his roommate molesting him as he slept after a night of drinking. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December That would be as illegal now as it was before the repeal of DADT.

475

Wow.  I'm sold.  And off the Buddy Roemer Train.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at December 09, 2011 07:28 AM (dV45O)

Thats not a train. Thats a skateboard.

476 Both sides of the gay marriage issue are wrong, and Ron Paul would rightly concur. Feds have no constitutional authority to sanction any mariage between anyone. Its a religious ceremony between two people, and the law should not recognize any religious ceremony.   

477
Barack Obama is an inside job.

Hundreds, probably thousands dead due to Fast and Furious.

478 >>He offended everyone who doesn't view gay servicemembers with horror, that is a majority of the voters in this country.

While that may be true, openly gay is something else entirely, and the results of this unnecessary bit Leftist social engineering are incomplete as are the  political, social, and most importantly national defense ramifications.

_{...arright I could have chosen a better word}    

479 @505
Feds have no constitutional authority to sanction any mariage between anyone.

Marriage licenses aren't issued by the federal government.

I have never heard Ron Paul object to civil marriage licenses.  Can you provide a citation? 

480 That would be as illegal now as it was before the repeal of DADT.

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 09, 2011 11:02 AM (i6RpT)

I'm sure the repeal will cause such incidents to go down markedly.  And that the gay soldier won't claim discrimination.

Yes, I'm sure a military afraid to say Nidal Hussein is a crazy Muslim will be even-handed here.

481

Id agree with the idea of punishing it that way but not making it outright illegal

Agreed, because it makes honeytrap/blackmail schemes more viable and because it makes it more difficult for families to fix the infidelity and patch up the marriage and keep going on.

That said, one advantage of technically criminalizing adultery would be the ability to go after panderers like that disgusting adultery website, whatever it was called.

482 Ron Paul is Ross Perot w/o charisma and more loony than a cat o/d on fresh catnip.

Please let him not be the nominee.

483 503 Especially as he found out by waking up to his roommate molesting him as he slept after a night of drinking. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December One more reason not to drink too much. Who was the guy's roommate, Congressman Massa?

484 Barack Obama is an inside job.

In more ways than you know.

485 I don't know if you realize this or not, but homosexuals have served forever


Really? I had no idea!

I don't know if you know this or not but there is a slight difference between the obedient troop who does not make his preference known under military discipline and the empowered troop who has the military teaching tolerance of his proclivities to his comrades

486 Best Obama comment of the day is from an Althouse thread:

Even the stuff that's below his pay grade is above his pay grade.

487 "The fact that you've been relying on body language for your interpretation - and have been trolling about this with so much "concern" on various sites since it came out - tells me what I need to know about you."

The fact you can't tell how and why that is offensive (to gay military personnel AND to those, in and out of the service, who don't have a problem with gay military personnel serving their country during war) tells me what I need to know about you.

Gays are people, and often good people.

The culture is changing in this respect, and not in the way you and most other people here like. Frankly it's changing to a more humane and rational posture that suits me fine.

And the military's cool. It'll adapt. It will do the country proud, like when it accepted racial desegregation in advance of much of the rest of the country. This time it's a bit behind, but nothing's perfect.

488 Random's knowledge of military matters is just a good as his understanding of Christianity.
/s

489 Openly allowing gays to serve gives the chain of command better ability to arrange quarters assignments.

How exactly does this make things better?  Quartering homosexuals with other homosexuals strikes me as a very bad idea.  Actually there doesn't seem to be any kind of ideal quarter arrangement.  Sometimes we really are better off not knowing.

490 Yes, let's not go with Perry because he got the name of a blog wrong. That shit matters. Blogs are a top priority in America and if you get that one wrong, well, what else could you get wrong? Way to look at candidates with clear eyes.

491 Feds have no constitutional authority to sanction any mariage between anyone. Actually, quite a few conservatives, me included, think perhaps the best way to sidestep the gay push for gay "marriage" is to leave the Sacrament of Marriage up to the churches, and have the government offer only Civil Unions to everyone. That would be pretty much the way it happened when I married my wife: we signed a document saying we were married in Seoul Town Hall, and had our wedding in a little country church in the middle of a rice paddy.

492

How exactly does this make things better?  Quartering homosexuals with other homosexuals strikes me as a very bad idea.

1 homo to a room could help

493

508@505
Feds have no constitutional authority to sanction any mariage between anyone.

Marriage licenses aren't issued by the federal government.

I have never heard Ron Paul object to civil marriage licenses. Can you provide a citation? 
---

Easy:

http://scoamf.us/g

494

And this type of rhetoric - which is what was used during the Prop 8 battle - is why I went from being an agnostic on gay marriage to being firmly against it. 

Wait a minute. You think my use of the word "horror" is over-the-top rhetoric? Get real. I didn't see you complaining about folks up there talking about gay rape in the barracks.

My question is,

Where are all those masses and masses of gays and lesbians that were going to storm recruiting stations around the country the MOMENT being openly gay was allowed?

I must have missed CBS's breathless coverage of the gay multitudes surrounding the local recruiting station.

What the heck are you talking about? DADT repeal wasn't about some untapped "masses and masses" of gays wanting to enlist. It was about the thousands of gays who are already enlisted and don't want to lose their jobs by being outted. And, since you apparently did miss it, a bunch of those folks who had been discharged, including some good men and women that I know personally, went back and reenlisted.

495 518 Random's knowledge of military matters is just a good as his understanding of Christianity.
/s
Hey, don't mock retarded autistics.  It's not a choice, he was born that way.

496 If that is the real drone, not showing the bottom optical package is telling. Posted by: Jean at December 09, 2011 10:54 AM (WkuV6) That is what has me skeptical that this is a legit claim.

497 Yes, let's not go with Perry because he got the name of a blog wrong. That shit matters. Blogs are a top priority in America and if you get that one wrong, well, what else could you get wrong?
Way to look at candidates with clear eyes.

Posted by: Joffen at December 09, 2011 11:07 AM (zLeKL)

it's not because of the fact he got the name of a blog wrong it's because of many other things. he cant even remember the very Dept he wants to get rid of for Gods sake. Or that you dont have to wait to be 21 to vote anymore.

498

I hope Vic is okay.

Moki....sorry to hear you had such a fright. Glad to hear that you and yours are all okay.

499 The fact you can't tell how and why that is offensive (to gay military personnel AND to those, in and out of the service, who don't have a problem with gay military personnel serving their country during war) tells me what I need to know about you.

So are you saying that Bill Clinton hates homosexuals?


DADT's existence and repeal should have been arrived at because of a need identified by the military commanders, not because of outside political pressure.  That's my objection to it.  It has nothing to do with 'feelings' about homosexuality or a lack of regard for homosexuals.  For you - and Gabe - to assert otherwise is pretty damned low. 

Gabe is a blogger here so I'd like to try to come to some sort of understanding with him.  It would be nice to not be accused of bigotry by him and, frankly, I think him doing so hurts the site.  But whatever. 

You - I don't care about.  You're not a conservative, that's perfectly clear, nor are you tolerant of traditionalists.  In my book, you're a troll. 

500 There is another problem with the repeal of DADT-

You those homophobic, hillbilly, redneck, gun clinging, religious hicks?

The make of the bulk of you combat arms. It is not a good idea to make them think twice about enlisting.

501
  It would seem that random refers to  recorded brain activity, but this may be incorrect.

  At any rate, the stench of troll is overwhelming.

502 Or do you think that some NCO or officer is going to trash their career by moving someone based on that? If so, then you're delusional. What going to happen is that the openly gay dude are going to be billeted with your best troopers and/or leadership to ensure nothing happens.

503 1 homo to a room could help

Hey whattaya know, I'm homo too!

504 I'm gonna make assumptions about you Author. You oppose the mandate in Obamacare. You are skeptical of AGW. So please, explain why you are going to support a candidate that doesn't share your views?

505 533, so our nco's are going to have to come up with an "unofficial" homo test; I guarantee someone gets canned for something this.

506 The culture is changing in this respect, and not in the way you and most other people here like. Frankly it's changing to a more humane and rational posture that suits me fine.

And thank God, because making you feel all tingly inside is what the military is there for.
It would be just a shame if they refused to let anything, including social engineering get in the way of their secondary mission- warfare.

507 #496 Joffen would people here be angry if the Dream Act passed and illegals became eligible for Pell Grants?

508 Wait a minute. You think my use of the word "horror" is over-the-top rhetoric? Get real. I didn't see you complaining about folks up there talking about gay rape in the barracks.

I don't know anything about the facts of that story.  Do you? 

Nor did I see that as an attack on you.  And, since you were in the comments, I figured you could defend yourself. 

What you wrote was a sweeping generalization about the motivations of anyone opposed to the repeal of DADT.  It is patently untrue, particularly given that many of us had the position of being for DADT.  Obviously, if we were horrified by homosexuals, we would not want them in the military.


I understand that you feel under attack in the comments, but that's not an excuse for you to accuse fellow conservatives with whom you happen to disagree on a couple of issues of bigotry. 

509

521Feds have no constitutional authority to sanction any mariage between anyone.

Actually, quite a few conservatives, me included, think perhaps the best way to sidestep the gay push for gay "marriage" is to leave the Sacrament of Marriage up to the churches, and have the government offer only Civil Unions to everyone.

That would be pretty much the way it happened when I married my wife: we signed a document saying we were married in Seoul Town Hall, and had our wedding in a little country church in the middle of a rice paddy.

---

If memory serves, that isn't the ultimate goal of the gay marriage movement. I don't disagree with that point though.

They want it to be a "right", meaning they can sashay into any church and demand to be married.

510

Gabe is a blogger here so I'd like to try to come to some sort of understanding with him. It would be nice to not be accused of bigotry by him and, frankly, I think him doing so hurts the site.

Bigotry? When did I accuse you of bigotry?

511 Perry +1 its up hill batter for him, but I am still rooting for him to do it!

512 Posted by: Heterosexual soldiers suddenly keen on the idea of getting a bunk to themselves at December 09, 2011 11:10 AM (TCyyS) Are either of you two, er, homosexual? No. But we're willing to learn.

513
It's fun to mock Trump and his debate but we're silly-asses for doing so.

We have a lot bigger things to worry about than Trump's antics and how undignified some debate might be.

514 493 might as well put your spin on it, eh.

515 blue hen, did it myself. Resolved a couple of minor racial issues by putting the troublemakers in with troops I trusted not to do something stupid to further inflame the issue. Unofficially, the officers thought it was a great idea, Officially they knew nothing about it and room assignments were random.

516 One more reason not to drink too much. Who was the guy's roommate, Congressman Massa? No. His name was SGT Chris Porter, and the kid he did this to was in fucking anguish. He told me because he had to tell someone, and at the same time made me swear I wouldn't push it up the chain of command because he was so ashamed of what happened to him.

517 this drone was a Trojan Horse.
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at December 09, 2011 10:31 AM (p7SSh)

Same here... that thing is just WAY too intact. Maybe we are hoping we track down where they bring it for study and then activate the Self destruct.

Wishful thinking, I know... but fuck wouldn't that be sweet?

Wishful thinking put Fast and Furious into practice.

518  I didn't see you complaining about folks up there talking about gay rape in the barracks.

So if male soldiers were barracked with female soldiers, the word 'rape' wouldn't ever be mentioned as an argument against that?

519 505: real marriage is what makes our society even possible.  The government recognizes and supports it because once upon a time we had a political class that didn't want to destroy America, and cared more about America than it did about getting all the back room sex it wanted.

When same sex couples establish that their pairings actually benefit society the same way that real marriages do, then, and only then can they push for getting the same rewards.

We pay doctors more than we pay plumbers because individual doctors create more benefit for society than do individual plumbers.  The childish and juvenile way that the same sex "marriage" crowd goes about pushing their agenda ("wah, wah, wah!  We want this!  You're big meanies for not giving us what we want!") is one of the strongest arguments for not giving it to them, because such sad, pathetic emotional children clearly aren't capable of engaging in an adult relationship like marriage.

Homosexuals have been coming out of the closet for the last 30 - 40 years.  Where are the studies on their relationships, and whether those relationships create better, more functional people?  We reward marriage because it's consistently proven to lead to better children (you know, our future), and more functional adults.

Where's the evidence that long term homosexual relationships provide society the same benefits?  Until that evidence appears, and is validated, homosexuals deserve, as a simple matter of fairness, to be treated differently.

520 Traitor Manning = "lack of disruption" according to Gabby

Remember the plane that "accidentally" crashed into an aircraft carrier? - it wasn't an argument over supply-side economics, Gabby.

521

The problem I have with the repeal of DADT is that our military folk are expected to be "winning the hearts & minds" of Muslims in predominately Islamic countries.

It's no secret now that our military has gays openly serving. And the Muslim attitude towards homosexuality is no secret. .....So, this will be used against our troops, by the Taliban and Al Qaeda, as a way to alienate locals against our people. This puts our military at even greater risk.

It seems selfish to me, that gays/lesbians would put their own sexual orientation as a priority above the safety of our troops.

522 Wishful thinking put Fast and Furious into practice. My wishing is after the fact. Big difference.

523 So, can we all just go back to being offended about the teacher who told students there was no Santa?

524 Posted by: Todd 3465 at December 09, 2011 11:14 AM (spa4d) ------- Absolutely they would. However, the individual mandate is worse and people are angrier over that. There really is no cpmparison.

525 7 I hope Perry makes a comeback. I think alot of the problems he's having is from the back     brain   surgery

Posted by: Zakn (goes back to lurking) at December 09, 2011 06:57 AM (q/891)

Fixed dat!

526 This is accusing opponents of the repeal of DADT of bigotry:

He offended everyone who doesn't view gay servicemembers with horror, that is a majority of the voters in this country.
------

I do not view gays - inside or outside of the military - with horror.  I objected to the repeal DADT, particularly the way it was done. 

And I still think you're incorrect in asserting that the majority of Republicans were for repealing DADT. 

527 Later, 'gators.  I need to go do something to lower my blood pressure. 

528 Thank God....new thread.

529 Posted by: Concealed Kerry or submit at December 09, 2011 11:19 AM (vXqv3) ----- Perry's smart enough to know the individual mandate is a bad idea.

530 openly gay is something else entirely, and the results of this unnecessary bit Leftist social engineering are incomplete as are the  political, social, and most importantly national defense ramifications.

The Jews have a religious tradition as strong as America's, what with Leviticus, etc., being in their much smaller core religious text, and with being surrounded by dedicated, larger armies who've routinely tried to slaughter them, while they deal with constant inside and no-man's-land threats of terrorism.

And yet, they kick ass -- and saw fit to allow gays openly in their military. Perhaps this just isn't as important a national defense issue as people seem to think it is.

This is from Wiki, and it's sound (again, see Sparta) :

Consul David Saranga at the Israeli Consulate in New York, who was interviewed by the St. Petersburg Times, said, “It's a non-issue. You can be a very good officer, a creative one, a brave one, and be gay at the same time.”^[25]

Uncloseted gays in the Jewish state are treated no differently than straights. Mandatory service draws every 18-year-old man and woman into the national service, with the exception of certain Ultra-Orthodox Jewish sects.

In a comprehensive review of interviews with all known experts on homosexuality in the IDF in 2004,^[28] researchers were not able to find any data suggesting that IsraelÂ’s decision to lift its gay ban undermined operational effectiveness, combat readiness, unit cohesion or morale. In this security-conscious country where the military is considered to be essential to the continued existence of the nation, the decision to include sexual minorities has not harmed IDF effectiveness. In addition, while no official statistics are available for harassment rates of sexual minorities in the IDF, scholars, military officials and representatives of gay organizations alike assert that vicious harassment is rare.

Israel takes the position that gays in the closet (those who, for example, may have informed their superiors of their sexual orientation, but on a confidential basis) cannot get security-sensitive jobs while those who are out can work anywhere.

--
We're not likely to convince each other today on why people are homosexual, if it's bad of good, if it's OK to have homosexuals in the military, if it's a well-thought-out idea to have the military's homosexuals declare their sexual orientation, whether that does or doesn't erode or enhance combat performance and ease or worsen manpower difficulties, etc., and etc.

But to those who think Rick Perry's "Strong" ad was good politics? You're smoking pungent holy green vegetation.

531 561 Later, 'gators.  I need to go do something to lower my blood pressure.

Punching a hippy does wonders for that.

If you wish to lower your BP, then don't read this story:

Red Cross considers crackdown on videogame “war crimes”

532 >>Later, 'gators.  I need to go do something to lower my blood pressure. 
Posted by: Y-not at December 09, 2011 11:20 AM (5H6zj)

_{Y-not whatever you do, don't believe anything that those Blue Men say, just take a look at their cities.}

533 The point Joffen is that you can't compare what is implemented in individual states and what is implemented by the Federal government. Both Gingrich and Romney have stated they would not implement mandates at the Federal Level just as I assume Perry would not make his state implemented tuition break for illegals a national law.

534 Yeah, You know how that Rick Perry AD appealed to the fundamentalist Christian in me? No, it honestly didn't. But I'm not a Tardisil afflicted, Iowa Caucas goer, so, what do I know? BTW Iowa, didja ever notice? that in addition to BIG CORN, your state *smells* like pig-shit? Not ALL of it, obviously... But I'd wager that 80% of Marriott Courtyard parking lots in your state, are gag-tastic.

535 "I do not view gays - inside or outside of the military - with horror."

So Gabriel exaggerated for rhetorical effect. The point is, it offended a lot more than just gays. Perry could have made a similar point a better way. And once again, he revealed his inability to connect with the electorate outside of Texas.

536 it's sound (again, see Sparta)

Spartans (and Greeks) engaged in pederasty.  You may want to look that term up and see if you think that's something we should say that is acceptable practice for modern soldiers.

537 But to those who think Rick Perry's "Strong" ad was good politics? You're smoking pungent holy green vegetation. I didn't know Perry was running ad for the upcoming Republican primary in Tel Aviv or even California.

538

Ok, reading this thread and some of the links it's obviuos that the drone was going down in enemy territory and it or it's remains would end up in enemy hands for analisys. WHY wasn't it self destructed or after it landed why wasn't a cruise missle sent in to eliminate the debris for analisys? Losing control of it is one thing. Having it's controls hacked and stolen: It's war and shit happens. ALLOWING the technology to remain intact in foreign hands for their edification after it was hacked and stolen is another and from a military standpoint laughably unacceptable. That amounts to the compromise of billions of dollars of steath and aviation technology accumulated over decades. So WHY was a drone that we no longer had control of, not destroyed (either remotely or with one of our own hellfires) as it was flown away and landed??? There was nobody on board. Destroying it in flight was our own right even if it had been flown across enemy borders by hackers. The photos shown don't look like it was a highly populated area so collateral damage was never an issue. WTF? Who made the decision to let all that money and technology fly away unchallenged?

Even the military can't function right under the lack of leadership from the SCOAMF administration.

539 "Uncloseted gays in the Jewish state are treated no differently than straights. " Of course they are. Just because you found some press release saying otherwise doesn't make it true. Most gays in the IDF just keep it to themselves.

540 But to those who think Rick Perry's "Strong" ad was good politics? You're smoking pungent holy green vegetation.

January 3rd will test this proposition.  3rd or better will show Perry chose wisely.  I'll wait and see.

541

Traitor Manning = "lack of disruption" according to Gabby

Way to change the goal posts, pal. Manning committed his treason before DADT repeal. I was referring to the disruption that all these wiseguys up here claimed would happen as a result of DADT repeal and that we're still waiting for. Remember that? All the threats of disruption the commenters made, the talk of civilians refusing to enlist, and troop refusals to reenlist? Yeah, still waiting.

 

Y-not, there's a lot of folks who just looooove to play the Victim with a capital "V". I didn't call you a bigot, and if you're so keen on being a Victim anyway, that's your problem. I'm not going to hold your fucking hand and play nicey-nice when we're having a policy argument just because you get uncomfortable with your ideological comrades. Butch up, Nancy. This is AOSHQ, not your highschool debate club.

542 I watched a season of Queer as Folk. It's suppose to be by gays honestly portraying gays. Even taking that with a grain of salt, I've never seen such rampant narcissistic behavior. Seriously, sick stuff.

543 We pay doctors more than we pay plumbers because individual doctors create more benefit for society than do individual plumbers. This is not meant to address your overall argument or to denigrate individual MDs for their impressive accomplishments and the importance of the jobs they do, but we pay doctors more than we pay plumbers because doctors are allowed to run a powerful, monopolistic white-collar guild that maintains towering barriers to entry. Add to that the moral hazard effects of third-party payment for services via private and public insurance, cost-shifting due to government mandates like EMTALA, and an out-of-control tort system exploited by pieces of shit like John Edwards, and that price for a doctor's expertise climbs for the sky. In other countries, doctor compensation is more in line with other white-collar professions when compared as a ratio to per capita GDP. Also, getting potable water at your taps and flushing sewage out of your house is a damned huge societal benefit.

544 "And I still think you're incorrect in asserting that the majority of Republicans were for repealing DADT."

Gabe said a plurality, not a majority. [ignore the grammatically stupid headline at the link]

The survey also found a plurality of Republicans favor repeal.

Forty-eight percent of Republicans surveyed said they favor “strongly” or “somewhat” the open service of gay troops in the military,while 41 percent remain opposed. Only 12 percent [of those] of Republicans “strongly” oppose gay men and lesbians serving openly in the military.

This will be my last comment on this thread. Have fun, everyone: whether gay, straight, or other.

545

Y-not, there's a lot of folks who just looooove to play the Victim with a capital "V". I didn't call you a bigot, and if you're so keen on being a Victim anyway, that's your problem. I'm not going to hold your fucking hand and play nicey-nice when we're having a policy argument just because you get uncomfortable with your ideological comrades. Butch up, Nancy. This is AOSHQ, not your highschool debate club.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at December 09, 2011 11:33 AM (IkTb7)

---

It's not about being a victim - 'not sure where you got that. 

I said it was unhelpful to your position and to the conservative movement to demonize people on this issue based on emotional arguments, just as it is unhelpful to call people who are for legal abortions baby-killers.

Butch up was a nice touch. 

546 This will be my last comment on this thread. Have fun, everyone: whether gay, straight, or other.

Could it, pretty please, be your last comment on the blog?

547

It's suppose to be by gays honestly portraying gays.

Oh, brother, this is what you're reduced to? Suggesting that Queer as Folk is a realistic portrayal of gays? Uh, no. That was a Showtime series. It was intentionally salacious, just as most Showtime series are. I suppose you think Californication is an "honest portrayal" of straight single fathers in California?

548

Butch up was a nice touch.

Thank you. A little bit of rhetoric to spice up debate. Keep it interesting, y'know?

549

Not that I expect Paul's campaign to get that far, but lines must be drawn: I have no tolerance for racist conspiracy theorists, and that includes racist conspiracy theorists with disastrous foreign policy and economic views.

If Paul's not going anywhere for awhile, it might be time to go over again what it is that he and his supporters have done to be deemed unelectable and not vote-worthy. I'm not a Paul supporter and seriously don't remember it all. I recall he had Truthers among his supporters and he thinks we do too much for Israel.

He's the most fiscally conservative, and the assumption is that everyone knows why he's toxic. A recap would be useful.

550 Spartans (and Greeks) engaged in pederasty.  You may want to look that term up and see if you think that's something we should say that is acceptable practice for modern soldiers.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 09, 2011 11:27 AM (FkKjr)

OK, real last comment.

Nope. But you could still maintain an effective combat force.

You're making my point, actually. It's that whether gays should or shouldn't be in the military, openly or not, are social questions, or even moral questions, but they are not significantly important combat power questions (with the exception that more talent available during recruiting and operations is good).

Cheers.

551 The point Joffen is that you can't compare what is implemented in individual states and what is implemented by the Federal government. ---- The point is the judgement of these candidates. I like Perry's tuition break a hell of a lot better than the idea of the individual mandate. Romney and Gingrich both looked at the idea of the individual mandate and thought it was a good idea. Newt looked at the idea of sitting beside Nancy Pelosi on a couch to support climate change was a good idea. This shows a considerable lack of good judgement on their part.

552 That's too bad, Random. I was looking forward to more comparisons of how a 64 year+old country with a population of less than 8 million, with compulsory military service due to being surrounded on all sides by openly hostile nations, Is just like our country's military, which has never allowed openly gay sexual behavior in its 235-plus year history. Troll.

553 >>It's a sad, sad day when Micky D's is now considered a fine dining experience world wide.<< Hush your mouth, runningrn! Even when it is served by the most surly, nasty crew to ever work at the dirtiest Mc Donald's in the whole world, in Annapolis, MD, you have to give them props for the Big Mac! That's mostly carbs, you know....

554 That's too bad, Random. I was looking forward to more comparisons of how a 64 year+old country with a population of less than 8 million, with compulsory military service due to being surrounded on all sides by openly hostile nations, Is just like our country's military, which has never allowed openly gay sexual behavior in its 235-plus year history, and which is all-volunteer. Troll.

555

http://tinyurl.com/d8t4ggq

Like I've been saying for a while, Mittens would model his campaign on McCain's '08 failure, endorse his opponent Obama, and flame out spectacularly.

556 @575 You're full of shit claiming repeal has not caused disruption. Prove it.

557 Nope. But you could still maintain an effective combat force.

But not of men and boys.  Spartans didn't practice man-on-man homosexuality.  In fact, that was illegal.  They screwed boys in a warped ritualistic tutelage.

they are not significantly important combat power questions

Sexuality in warfare among soldiers has long been judged to be a bad thing.  That wasn't some arbitrary decision.

558 "way to change goal posts"   - Gabby got his little tookus kicked by the facts, so has to whine about something .....

559

During Clinton, pre-DADT, one gay guy in our unit was caught in a "sting" by CID in which they videotaped gay guys giving each other blowjobs through a hole in a Men's room stall wall at the base Burger King. (First of all, I was fucking disgusted that they let it go on long enough that they could catch them in the act in a fucking RESTAURANT, but I digress...).

He immediately got his own room and became "house mouse" for the six or so months it took for him to be Chapetered out. After an initial extra-duty bid, those were probably the happiest months of the guy's life. He didn't have to show up at formations, never pulled overnight watches, etc. His roommate got the shit end of the stick, being forced to move into a three-man room. By the end of  Private Blowjob's stint he was walking down the hall with bouquets of PX flowers from his also-busted boyfriends (I shit you not) and swishing around like Richard Simmons.
That kind of shit absolutely affects morale, readiness, esprit de corps, etc. That there aren't major disruptions is a product of the discipline instilled in soldiers as well as the rules that bind them. They don't hold protest marches or scream stupid slogans, they just go to work at a job that gets more difficult every time a politician tries out a new social experiment.

560

So funny how the anti-purists become purists when faced with the possibility of voting for Ron Paul.

But hey, VOTE FOR MIKE CASTLE YOU PURIST NITWITS!!LISTEN TO WHAT I SAY!!!

561 You insult my liege. Therefore, you attack my honor. Prepare to defend yourself, scoundrel!

562 I think Ron Paul's foreign and economic policies are quite sensible. Or do you think it's wise to try to remake every f'n country in the world in our own image when we're as broke as a $2 whore?

It's when he gets on his Blame America for Islamic Jihad jag that he loses it.

563 Winnipeg teen accused of anti-Semitic attack defiant on Facebook, finding fans

Police confirmed Monday a 15-year-old boy had been charged with assault with a weapon for allegedly using a lighter to burn the hair of a Jewish classmate while uttering anti-Semitic remarks in the halls of Oak Park High School.

But while police said it was still being determined whether the boy will be charged with hate crimes, the boy had a message of his own — a picture of himself on his Facebook page wearing a shirt with a slogan relating that he loves “haters.”

---

One of the boyÂ’s friends, a young woman, posted her support for him on his Facebook page.

“What you did should have been applauded. But s-happens,” she wrote, drawing an immediate response from some of his other Facebook friends.

While two people supported her views, two others responded negatively. One called the boy a “skinhead,” while another insisted what he did should “not be applauded.”

564 .... still waiting for one racist quote of Ron Paul ....

565 Oh yeah, this guy is crazy and anti-semitic. / http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jFZpL8F4FgU Really? How about coming up with something with substance?

566 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

567 The banning of incandescent bulbs is nothing in and of its self, a minor event. But like the tea and postage stamp tax, it should be the final straw, a point at which people say "ENOUGH" and rise up. This has to end, this incremental corrosion of liberty for our own good. This is a good enough hill to die on. We have to stop this, now.

568 Gov. Perry has stated that Obama has abused his commander in chief responsibilities by these political decisions with regards to the military. He also has a problemo with Obama doing this with Law Enforcement at the border & the DOJ.

Obama has made a freakin' mess.

569 I donÂ’t usually add my comments, but I will in this case. Nice work. I look forward to reading more.

570 You really make it seem so uderstandable with your presentation but I find this topic before really hard to understand. It seems too complicated and very broad for me.

571 Yep! I was agreed, I'll keep in touch to your blog.

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573 Its Pleasure to understand your blog.The above articles is pretty extraordinary, and I really enjoyed reading your blog and points that you expressed. I really like to appear back over a typical basis,post a lot more within the topic.Thanks for sharingÂ…keep writing!!!

574

Yeah, I've been saying for a while now that Ron Paul should drop out, so that his supporters can vote for a more realistic candidate who stands an actual chance of winning a general election. See my post at:

http://tinyurl.com/dy6oh6d

575 Nissan Starter The particulars and exact recommendation are insurance specifically what I was wanting. IÂ’ve book marked and will definitely be returning.business insurance Thanks for the information in this blog.The posting in this site is very cool and also car insurance interesting.I had read the entire blog and I came to know many things which dental insurance I don't know before