1

Federal Judge throws out SC GOP lawsuit to close primaries

COLUMBIA, S.C. — A federal judge tossed out a lawsuit by Republicans on Wednesday who wanted South Carolina to begin requiring voters to register with a party before voting in a primary.

This is the second one that I am aware of. The first one ruled that as long as he State provided any resources at all it could determine primary status. The article doesn’t give a link to the actual case so it may be that the judge ruled the same way here and AP is just tilting it to their satisfaction. Certainly the phrase “tossed out” is BS because that infers that the judge didn’t even allow the case to move forward to trial.

What I would like to know is how other States who do have closed primaries can get a federal ruling that allows them to remain closed because here even using the normal polling places for a primary constitutes “State resources”.  I suspect that their State legislatures ruled them closed (more later).

I do think that the “freedom of association” argument was lame. They should have went with the equal justice before the law argument. There may be hope though:

Republicans also plan to ask legislators to pass a law allowing voters in the state to register to vote by party, which likely would open the door to closing primaries to only party members.

So if the State legislature closes the primaries how then will the judge rule when the Dems and “independents” sue? Now that will be interesting.  Keep in mind that the Republicans have solid control of the legislature and the Governor here. However, a lot of the Republicans are former Dems and I presume that if it was a sure thing to get it through they would have gone that route before the court route.  The Dems were firmly in power when the Primary system here was established.

2

Think we are immune to the types of BS thought crime stuff going on in Britain?

Think again. In this article a Staten Island school kid tried to rip the headscarf from another kid. What at most should have been an admonishment by parents or school authorities became assault and then felony assault based on a “hate crime”.

If I am not mistaken the Supremes ruled long ago that a hate crime could not be based solely on “thought” that some violent act must also occur first. By violent that meant rising to felony status on its own level.  Somehow I doubt that a kid snatching a scarf from the head of another kid rises to the level of felony assault.

And that's it for the news this morning. its really the SOS today as yesterday.

3 SHOCKING DISCOVERY: The Day After 9-11 Van Jones Led Rally Where They Cheered American Killers (Video)

4 1)


why Vic I am coincidentally in SC today.....

"charming" wonder if the "judge" sees the irony in having no problem with donks getting to pick the donk candidate in a closed caucus and the GOP having to let donks pick the GOP candidate?

5 3 momma,

shocked?

That was WHY Barry hired him.

The USAF is AQ Libya's airwing thanks to Jugears.

6 Shocking! MSM Ignores Leading Democrat Instructing Other Democrats On How To Spin Mediagreat cartoon there as well (Flopping Aces)

7

...a Staten Island school kid tried to rip the headscarf from another kid. What at most should have been an admonishment by parents or school authorities became assault and then felony assault based on a “hate crime”.

Posted by: Vic at March 31, 2011 07:07 AM (M9Ie6)

Insane.  Hate crime laws are foolish enough on their own, even when applied with the original purported intent.  Now they are being used (as was inevitable) as a tool of harrassment and threat - the Left following it's usual mode of operation.  What's worst - it's being done in the name of making the US Sharia compliant. 

8 The A-Team taught me to not trust the gov't. 

Wait - if I watched the A-Team, doesn't that mean I'm not racist?  You know, cuz there was a big, black, cool as hell actor on it?

9 A really pissed off bird.  Must have voted R in the last election.

10 "charming" wonder if the "judge" sees the irony in having no problem with donks getting to pick the donk candidate in a closed caucus and the GOP having to let donks pick the GOP candidate?

Well they did reference the fact that under SC statute one could not vote in "both" primaries. Still I would like them closed. Even though I would have to go down and re-register.

11 12 year old genius.

12 Insane.  Hate crime laws are foolish enough on their own, even when applied with the original purported intent.

As I said, the Supremes have ruled that this IS unconstitutional. Now one must figure a way to reign in the SI prosecutors. Like the Duke rape case though, even if he was reigned in, the citizens of SI would be the ones to pay damages instead of the prosecutor. That is one of the things that must get changed.

13

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 07:20 AM (penCf)

Sweet.  I knew there must have been some reason why I loved watching the A Team as a kid, in spite of some of the inherent absurdity.  Of course, to any thinking person it's the most obvious proposition in the world - the government is often stupid and does stupid and unjust things.  No reasonable person in history, since the time the first savage chieftan instituted his lordship over some villiage, would argue against this notion (though usually it's been safest to keep that thought to one's self). 

14 Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 07:20 AM (penC Did you say something? For some reason I just had a terribly salacious BJ fantasy.

15 I posted this last night at the end of a thread, but I figure people like hypocrisy with their coffee:

Schultz: ‘Are You With The Terrorists, Or Are You With The President Of The United States?’ (Nice Deb)

ED SCHULTZ: Republicans are attacking the Commander-in-Chief during a time of war! . . . There should be no debate: we should be kicking [Gaddafi's] ass . . . Whose side are you on, Sarah: are you with the terrorists, Sarah, or are you with the President of the United States? . . . And I have to ask the question tonight: where is the patriotism from all of these war-hawks? WhereÂ’s the patriotism of the Republican party? . . . What about being a patriot? . . . So the question now for the doubters who are out and about: why donÂ’t you support the president? . . . WeÂ’ve been talking about the lack of patriotism from prominent Republicans . . .  Laura [Flanders] what about the patriotism?

16 Posted by: Bugler at March 31, 2011 07:29 AM (VXBR1)

+1 

17 Since I'm a giver:

VictoriaÂ’s Secret 2011 SWIM Collection

18 Morning all. Sea levels have been rising at a rate of about 6-7 inches per century since the end of the last ice age. One of the big scare tactics of the AGW crowd is to claim the seas will rise 1-3 meters per century, drowning coastlines practically overnight. This latest study shows NO acceleration in rise over the last 80 years:
 
Without sea-level acceleration, the 20th-century sea-level trend of 1.7 mm/y would produce a rise of only approximately 0.15 m from 2010 to 2100; therefore, sea-level acceleration is a critical component of projected sea-level rise.
 
So fire up them SUVs and use em to chase warmists around the parking lot.

19 Indiana Republicans wasted no time...
Indiana now has school choice!!  Awesome... hope other states can follow.

If I read that correctly it was a "voucher" system, not the same as school choice. The supremes ruled "school choice" unconstitutional long ago in the 60s back when I was still in High School.

The "voucher" system provides State funds for parents to send their children to private schools while school choice allows them to send their children to whichever public school they choose.

20 As I said, the Supremes have ruled that this IS unconstitutional.

Posted by: Vic at March 31, 2011 07:28 AM (M9Ie6)

For now.  Just wait until the Left wins the SCOTUS majority.  Then their precious stare decesis, a concept they use only to protect their own past judgements, will be out the window and the madness will reach full bloom.  Incidents like this are a window into what's coming.

Besides - the tactic of lawfare is alive and well in the US.  They'll re-fight this over and over, and lower court judges will allow the cases to go forward because it suits their politics.  The objective is to bankrupt their enemies with legal expenses, and instill fear.

 

21 Worker skips office Mega pool, loses share of $319MSee, that just sucks.  If he always plays, and just didn't this week, you have to feel bad for the dude.  If I had won, I'd give him some money.  Catholic guilt is a heavy burden

22

Taking the pipe so your state doesn't have to:

RI begging for federal light rail money

23 JamieWearingFool:
Dingy Harry: America Doesn't Care About Tea Party
She has a great counter argument!

24 Morning all. Sea levels have been rising at a rate of about 6-7 inches per century since the end of the last ice age. One of the big scare tactics of the AGW crowd is to claim the seas will rise 1-3 meters per century, drowning coastlines practically overnight. This latest study shows NO acceleration in rise over the last 80 years: Without sea-level acceleration, the 20th-century sea-level trend of 1.7 mm/y would produce a rise of only approximately 0.15 m from 2010 to 2100; therefore, sea-level acceleration is a critical component of projected sea-level rise. So fire up them SUVs and use em to chase warmists around the parking lot. Posted by: GnuBreed at March 31, 2011 07:32 AM (ENKCw) The Priests of the Holy Hockey Stick at NPR would disagree. Sometimes I overhear them on the radio at work and can barely hold in endless guffaws.

25

Republicans not offering up anything particularly evil at this very moment?  Run out a story from 1904!

Your local communist rag has nothing on the Providence Journal!

26 ED SCHULTZ: Whose side are you on, Sarah: are you with the terrorists, Sarah, or are you with the President of the United States?

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 07:29 AM (penCf)

Talk about a false dichotomy.  In this case, siding with the terrorists is the same as siding with the POTUS. 

It's nice to know, with metaphysical certitude, that our side will NEVER turn against the American fighting man.  Unlike the Left's anti-war spokesmen, who openly advocated mutiny and fragging. 

27 Vic, how bad is this?

Japan fears radioactive contamination of marine life

28 18 Since I'm a giver:

VictoriaÂ’s Secret 2011 SWIM Collection
Posted by: momma

My Gawd!

It's "Jaws," 2011 version...

29 Ace:  AARP goes balls deep . . .

The imagery is shocking.  Truly shocking.

30 This wax statue of Barack looks like Gilbert Godfrey.

31 Read the caption for this picture. 

It seems our Prez is only interested in flying to vacation spots or campaign fundraisers, not to meet with the leaders of Countries we are at war for.

32 Vic, how bad is this?

Since they do not give the actual level one can not tell. Keep in mind that those "legal limits" they are talking about is measured in a few pico-curies whereas the the dose needed to reach the level of possible effects are in the curie range.

This has been typical throughout the event. They print a scare-mongering headline with no data.

33 Legal Insurrection:
Judge Sumi Warns Attorneys About Criticisms The attorneys present during these comments indicated it was not clear to whom they were directed, but I have to believe the warnings were directed at attorneys for the State.

The Prof says: 

I find it disturbing that Judge Sumi issued this warning, which carries the threat of a Bar disciplinary referral. This is tantamount to the nuclear option, by putting attorney licenses to practice on the line.

Such a warning necessarily is one-sided, since only the attorneys unhappy with a court's rulings would comment negatively.  Such a warning allows the winning side, so far the Democrats, to crow all day long about the court rulings, while muffling the ability of the Republicans to explain why such rulings were unjustified.

This is a highly political case which has been made even more political by the court's rulings.  Absent comments which impugn Judge Sumi's integrity or make false statements about her, the attorneys in the case should be free to comment.

34 Momma, note also how they parsed the headline; "Japan fears". They never said that there was any danger, only that Japan fears there is danger.

Now one wonders why people would fear? After all, the press has been so objective on this issue.

35 This has been typical throughout the event. They print a scare-mongering headline with no data.

Posted by: Vic at March 31, 2011 07:51 AM (M9Ie6)

I figured it wasn't as bad as they make it out precisely because they didn't give the data (I wouldn't understand it anyway).  Thanks!

36 It is weird that the press has basically forgotten about Japan, except for the doom articles.

Even Obama's forgotten.

37 I got your patriotism right here, Mr. Schultz.

38 Fuck you Ron:

Ron Reagan Jr.: My father is 'fetish object for the far right'

39 Naw, Obama has an unchakable relationship with Japan.

40 Obama protects the unions, again:

Back in May of last year, the National Mediation Board issued a new rule (PDF) that allowed a simple majority of votes cast to determine unionization in those industries, reversing a rule that stood for 75 years that had required the support of a majority of all workers. The FAA bill, up for a vote in the House of Representatives perhaps this week, includes a provision that would overturn the rule, but in a statement released Wednesday night, the White House said Obama would veto any bill that included the measure, underlining for emphasis: If the President is presented with a bill that would not safeguard the ability of railroad and airline workers to decide whether or not they would be represented by a union based upon a majority of the ballots cast in an election or that would degrade safe and efficient air traffic, his senior advisers would recommend that he veto the bill.  The Administration wishes to address these and other concerns as FAA reauthorization legislation moves through the legislative process. Vetoing the legislation would have serious consequences, because the FAA bill's passage is necessary to keep it operating. Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., said in a conference call earlier that any final bill must include the provision that would restore pre-Obama union organizing rules.

41 From the link above:

That "spirited debate" is important in a democracy, but attorneys must keep in mind their professional ethics, Sumi said.

Anytime an asshole like this is talking about ethics it is time to hold on to your wallets. This judge is a unionist from the git-go and in a world with real justice she would already have been impeached.

42 Your Congress At Work: Congressional Democrats Vs. The GOP’s ‘Styrofoam Dan’

43 Vetoing the legislation would have serious consequences, because the FAA bill's passage is necessary to keep it operating.

Fine, pass the bill in the House and tell them to take it or leave. Of course that will require some balls.

Those seem to be missing lately.

44 (format fixed, I hope)

Obama protects the unions, again:


Back in May of last year, the National Mediation Board issued a new rule (PDF) that allowed a simple majority of votes cast to determine unionization in those industries, reversing a rule that stood for 75 years that had required the support of a majority of all workers.


The FAA bill, up for a vote in the House of Representatives perhaps this week, includes a provision that would overturn the rule, but in a statement released Wednesday night, the White House said Obama would veto any bill that included the measure, underlining for emphasis:


If the President is presented with a bill that would not safeguard the ability of railroad and airline workers to decide whether or not they would be represented by a union based upon a majority of the ballots cast in an election or that would degrade safe and efficient air traffic, his senior advisers would recommend that he veto the bill.  The Administration wishes to address these and other concerns as FAA reauthorization legislation moves through the legislative process.



 Vetoing the legislation would have serious consequences, because the FAA bill's passage is necessary to keep it operating. Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., said in a conference call earlier that any final bill must include the provision that would restore pre-Obama union organizing rules.

45

Let's see, our choices are Gaddafi or the muslim brotherhood.

It's like a choice between the devil or it's grandmother.

or- none of the above.

I vote for "none of the above."

46 Mornin! Im having the DOOM over easy, a side of bacon and a cup of the worst shit you've got.

47 CNS News

Arizona Governor Signs Bill Prohibiting Abortion Based on Gender or Race



CIA Puts Boots on the Ground in Libya; White House Debates Arming Rebels



Going Broke: Treasury Down to $58.6B in Cash, $130.5B Borrowing Authority



Rep. Bachmann: 'Democrats Want A Federal Shutdown'

48 Upcoming DVD you just gotta love:

We're not sure you could get celebrities to wear triple-tone bowling shoes nowadays, but during the disco-crazed '70s, no problem! Celebrity Bowling, hosted by Jed Allan was produced in Los Angeles, California at KTTV Channel 5. The popular series ran for eight years (January 16, 1971 to September 197 . Each week two-person teams competed on regulation size bowling lanes that were actually installed in-studio.

Hilarity usually came in two flavors: celebs that took their game waaaay too seriously; and lighthearted joking aimed at your partner or opponent. And, of course, some people had a better sense of humor than others.

Match-ups include:

William Shatner & Fran Jeffries vs Hugh O'Brian & Michele Lee
Roy Rogers & Don Adams vs Bob Newhart & George Foreman
Adrienne Barbeau & Gail Fisher vs Arlene Golonka & Cathy Lee Crosby
Rue McClanahan & Ron Masak vs Charles Nelson Reilly & Robert Clary
Leslie Nielsen & Susan Saint James vs Angie Dickinson & Lloyd Bridges

tvshowsondvd.com

49 ED SCHULTZ: Whose side are you on, Sarah: are you with the terrorists, Sarah, or are you with the President of the United States?

Posted by: momma at March 31, 2011 07:29 AM (penCf)

This does bring into focus the Obama Doctrine or something.
On one side, we have Khaddafi’s merry band of “screw ‘em” mercenaries
On the other side, we have a rag tag band of local jihadists with a “flicker” of al Qaeda
Ed Schultz and the Democrats are of course, siding with the “locals” with that “flicker”

I feel like IÂ’ve seen this movie before.

50 U.S. consumers face "serious" inflation in the months ahead for clothing, food and other products, the head of Wal-Mart's U.S. operations warned Wednesday.
Link on Drudge

51 If we put boots down in Libya, if Americans are killed there, O'bama will be done.  No amount of spin will help him.

52 I can't believe some of you are defending the little shit:

He and a 13-year-old accomplice beat the girl up, punching and kicking her, before she fell to the ground, authorities said.

“Are you Muslim?” Daramy allegedly barked before grabbing at the hijab wrapped around the victim’s head. He was apparently unsuccessful in removing the covering.

Daramy, who has previously attacked the victim four times over a two-month period, was arrested, authorities added. He is also charged with aggravated harassment.

Read the article. There is more.

53 I hate AoS software.

54 Someone wake Monty up. I need some DOOM in my coffee.

55 U.S. consumers face "serious" inflation in the months ahead for clothing, food and other products, the head of Wal-Mart's U.S. operations warned Wednesday.
Link on Drudge

  Yeah I saw that and I think we all knew it was coming. Costs are going to go up on virtually everything. The "serious" part is a concern. Manufacturers and shippers have been holding back from passing on the costs, times up.  Sprinkle some of that doom sweetener on your corn flakes and enjoy.

56 RE: How's the Coffee? @49,

See what happens when Monty sleeps in? How's the Coffee preempts me. DOOM, stat!

57 Read the article. There is more. Posted by: moron at March 31, 2011 08:25 AM (s7C19) Charge the little fuck with assault and battery. Hate-crime laws lead to tyranny. No one is defending him.

58 I can't believe some of you are defending the little shit:

The article I read did not mention any of that beating and kicking stuff. All it said was attempting to snatch her scarf.

The question then becomes, did the attack by itself constitute felony assault under NY statute? That is what it takes for a "hate crime enhancement" per SCOTUS.

in SC that assault, if occurring with multiple attackers as stated above, would constitute "lynching" which is a felony. If the girl was injured in the assault the punishment jumps exponentially.

59 RE: melvin@58,

Energy costs will necessarily skyrocket. I intend to fulfill my promise.

60 melvin, a lot of the price increase has already been passed on to us via smaller package sizes for food products. Now though, they are going to have to raise prices on those same smaller packages. Double boned, with a side order of DOOM fries.

61 I remember Stagflation. Tons of fun. Well, it was only ounces of fun, but you paid for tons.

62 OK, it was in there. I don't know how I missed all that. Must have been due to not enough coffee yet when I was going through it.

63 He's making them an offer they can't refuse.

64

Indiana Republicans wasted no time...
Indiana now has school choice!!  Awesome... hope other states can follow

I don't people fully understand what school choice means.

Especially those of us that live in good/decent school districts.

I have a question, if all the inner city kids(please don't read that as black, i simply mean that inner city schools suck the balls, so that is naturally where people will be trying to get away from), or at least half of them decide to go to a suburban school, who pays for the expansion of said suburban school? Obviously the schools weren't built to handle that many students, so they will need to add classrooms. Who pays to bus those inner city kids to your local suburban school?

Do you think they're going to raise taxes on the inner city people or you, the person living in that district?

 

65 I don't people fully understand what school choice means.

Ben, I mentioned that at post 20. School choice is really not the right term for that.

66 Walmart  has a earned a special place in hell when it comes to forcing manufactures to bend to their wishes when it comes to wholesale costs / the price walmart pays for goods. So if walmart says prices will rise within their own system and they use the word serious, imagine the price increase of goods in the rest of consumerville  outside of walmart.  People who hate walmart and wouldn't be caught dead in one of their stores will soon be a fresh new customer. More BMWs in the parking lot.
 So what does "serious mean ?  6%, 10%, 15% who knows. When they replace the word serious for significant then..........

67

Ben, I think it's not a right for someone to get into a different school. If there are openings, great, if not, then there aren't.

 

68  So what does "serious mean ?  6%, 10%, 15% who knows. When they replace the word serious for significant then..........

I have read some articles that say food prices have jumped 20% in the past 2 years on staple goods. I can believe it.

69

50Going Broke: Treasury Down to $58.6B in Cash, $130.5B Borrowing Authority


Yes but....

LIBYA!!

SQUIRREL!!

70

U.S. consumers face "serious" inflation in the months ahead for clothing, food and other products

Hmm. I've been stocking up on supplies to get us through a small disaster. Not sure about stocking up even more...where am I going to put it all?

71 The Austrian judo federation says former Olympic judo silver medalist Claudia Heill of Austria has committed suicide by jumping out of a sixth-story window in central Vienna. She was 29.

72 Ben, I think it's not a right for someone to get into a different school. If there are openings, great, if not, then there aren't.

As I said in 20, SCOTUS ruled school choice illegal long long ago. At that time they viewed it as a tool of the segregationists. In actuality it allowed parents to choose where they wanted to send their kids (within reason). Naturally parents wanted their kids to go to the closest school unless it was a real trash pit. The government didn't like that since they did not get what they wanted.

Keep in mind that back then in the mid 60s the school systems, both in the cities and in suburbia, were still good.

73 Rubio crazy like a fox? Make the Senate decline to vote on Libya action? Statements on the record sort of thing? Or does he really want to bail Obama out of his own mess?

74

 don't people fully understand what school choice means.

Ben, I mentioned that at post 20. School choice is really not the right term for that.

Eh, yeah i guess.

Here in PA the State Legislature is debating it, and they're calling the bill School Choice.

It would essentially be a voucher system just using the School Choice title.

I went to a local meeting to meet with my state rep and he gave pretty convincing arguments for both sides.

I can't say that I'm for it. I would prefer to fix the schools rather than have my property taxes go up because half of the inner city comes to my school district.

I specifically paid a bit more for my home because of the school district. I don't have kids, but if i do, or were to sell my home, it helps the value. Well if my local school becomes an inner city school, well then there goes that. Especially if the property taxes skyrocket to cover the increase costs.

 

75 50Going Broke: Treasury Down to $58.6B in Cash, $130.5B Borrowing Authority

So, uh.... does Libya action get put on hold when the money dries up?

76 I can't say that I'm for it. I would prefer to fix the schools rather than have my property taxes go up because half of the inner city comes to my school district.

If it is a true voucher system all it will do is give parents money to attend a private school. Of course, the best way to find out is to find the actual bill and read it.

And yes, property values have ALWAYS been effected by school quality, primarily the lower grades.

77

If it is a true voucher system all it will do is give parents money to attend a private school. Of course, the best way to find out is to find the actual bill and read it.

And yes, property values have ALWAYS been effected by school quality, primarily the lower grades.

Yes, but the voucher is what exactly? The % of property taxes that someone pays allocated for school, right? It's not uniform. Someone in the innercity may be paying 1,000 in property taxes whereas I am paying 3,500.

Let's say that an inner city school loses half of its student body to suburban schools, how does the inner city school afford to stay open? It's impossible to fire teachers, in my state anyway.

So when they come to the local school, they aren't paying what it costs to maintain the school per student. Who then has their taxes raised to compensate for this? Also, if i am not mistaken, school busing is mandatory. The state rep I met with(a great guy by the way) implied that busing is one of the bigger expenses for public schools.

78 Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 08:42 AM (wuv1c)

The people who send their kids to Catholic schools, pay twice.  The tuition and their school taxes.  Here they want to be able to give the school tax money to the Catholic school their kid attends and to lower their tuition bill.   they call this a voucher program.  In the suburbs, you pay more for a house in a certain school district.  The people  who are in the better districts and still send to private are really screwed.  This is what people think "school choice" is and they are fine with this.

79 Ben, right now you can essentially choose your own school; I spoke with several principals here in ChesCo and they were all open to allowing my kids to attend their schools (our public elementary happens to be a pit in desperate need of renovation) so long as I drove them in. Even in the city that can be arranged; parents just have to speak with the principals. What the vouchers do is help subsidize parents who want to send their kids not to other publics or charters, but to parochial or private schools. Those schools are really really empty right now - and as much as I enjoy the small class sizes (my kids are in Catholic school) I think it would be great if there was a little more fresh blood and warm bodies in them! It's a win-win. Of course, I pay out the butt for property taxes, AND private tuition on top of that, and we aren't getting any subsidies! but it's a start to cracking this hard hard shell of teacher-school-union hell we're in here in PA.

80 Ben, in PA school busing in only mandatory in a certain radius of the school. outside of that you are responsible for getting your kids to school.

81

Focuses eligibility on lower income families. Families at or below the income threshold for the Federal Free and Reduced Lunch program approximately $40,000 for a family of four can receive 90 percent of their per student home school corporation state tuition support. Families with incomes of approximately $60,000 for a family of four can receive 50 percent of the state tuition support amount per student. However, $4,500 is the maximum a student in grades 1-8 may receive.

 An eligible school must also hold a public hearing and conduct a random drawing, if it has more choice scholarship applicants than available seats.

Caps student participation at 7,500 for the 2011-2012 school year and 15,000 for the 2012-2013 school year. There is no cap on student participation after the 2012-2013 school year.

82 Yes, but the voucher is what exactly? The % of property taxes that someone pays allocated for school, right?

The ones that I have seen just pay the parents (who must qualify) a fixed amount of money. The usual qualifications are the school system is second rate through some kind of rating system and the parents are low income.

The vouchers are just a fixed amount of money paid towards attending a private school. In a lot of cases in Northern big cities what I saw as that the parents would use the money to go to Catholic schools. Of course that was challenged in court but they lost.

I haven't seen any cases where they sent students to other public schools under a voucher system. And I have not seen any cases where the voucher system removed taxpayer funding for a public school but of course that is the argument that the anti-voucher people make though.

83 Also, your property taxes don't directly fund your school district entirely. There is a pool. Many people in PA complain about how much of the property tax pool statewide goes to Philadelphia School District, for example. They are getting $20K per student right now! that's nearly twice the state average. So your taxes aren't directly affecting your district anymore; it's pooled and distributed by your "betters" in Harrisburg.

84 That was from the Indiana law linked above at #8.

85

 Ben, right now you can essentially choose your own school; I spoke with several principals here in ChesCo and they were all open to allowing my kids to attend their schools (our public elementary happens to be a pit in desperate need of renovation) so long as I drove them in.

Yeah, but what happens when half of philadelphia chooses the suburban schools.

Do you think 1)that the philly teahcers will be fired? 2) that the inner city people will drive their kids to school as they don't have cars or scream until the state pays for busing? 3) That ANY Philly politician will raise property taxes to help cover the cost difference?

86

I haven't seen any cases where they sent students to other public schools under a voucher system.

I have a vague recollection of public schools that would charge out-of-district students to come there. Not sure what other circumstances there are, but it's mentioned in what I quoted above...

87 89. I don't know why but I'm not worried. Change in the system we have is GOOD! it can't get any worse. All the Catholics near the city are in dire straits! they need students or they will close. Also, I don't think the voucher will cover the entirety of the tuition, so you will be talking about motivated parents here, not your typical whiners. Those would just stay with what is easy.

88 Ben, if vouchers are just money to go to private schools, then it's a free enterprise (ish) system. There are plenty of private and parochial schools already in Philly, believe me. I can't see a need for what you are talking about.

89 Today's news of DOOM.  And I mean that literally.  Remember from the Bible's Book of Revelation there is this one book with seven seals and when you open that book you get the Apocalypse?  It sounds like that book might have been found.

90 Vic, it's not surprising considering her record,http://tinyurl.com/yd7vdfq

91

Instead, Mrs. Stinziano pays about $4,300 a year so that her 9-year-old daughter, Nicole, can attend a public elementary school about 15 miles north, in the affluent Westchester town of Harrison....

In Westchester County alone, at least nine public school districts have programs charging tuition to nonresident students, including Bronxville, Edgemont, Mamaroneck and the city of Rye. "The money has become vital," said Ronald Valenti, the Superintendent of the Harrison Central School District, where 29 nonresident students are enrolled for a total of $120,000 in tuition this school year. "Every dollar counts when you're trying to keep a lid on spending."

NYT article. I could link it, I guess. Or not.

92

I like the idea of school choice or a voucher system, it seems like a novel concept, but I don't think it would actually work to well in practice.

I would much prefer the teacher unions be crushed and rebuilt so that they don't/can't defend terrible teachers.

I mean, school systems are actually set up faily well in terms of locations and size.   Just about every city or town has a school in a central location that is fairly well located to service the children of that area.

I would much prefer we fix those schools.

I do kinda think that education is under the purview of the state, but we're just doing a terrible freaking job of it.

We're not teaching the subjects that matter, we're not employing good teachers, and many parents simply don't care about how their kid does(this is often left out of the equation when talked about by people on our side of the aisle)

93

Also, I don't think the voucher will cover the entirety of the tuition, so you will be talking about motivated parents here, not your typical whiners. Those would just stay with what is easy.

I have no problem with that. If a parent is willing to bear the costs and cares enough about their kid, then i am fine with that.

However the more extreme idea, and i think the one that is being debated, is simply moving students from a bad school to a good school and assuming everything will take care of itself.

94

I mean, school systems are actually set up faily well in terms of locations and size.   Just about every city or town has a school in a central location that is fairly well located to service the children of that area.

I know some have taken over public school buildings. They tend to start off small, though.

I googled Philadelphia charter school list and there are 78. Can point you to a map if you want.

95 "The article I read did not mention any of that beating and kicking stuff. All it said was attempting to snatch her scarf. " The info was in the article YOU linked. A lynching is when someone legally detained is illegally removed from custody. He's been assaulting this girl for 4 months. He deserves to have his little ass handed to him. And this is juvenile court. Felony vs. misdemeanor means nothing.

96 In Indiana,  you can switch grade or high schools within your district if you provide the transportation.  My grandchildren's system has grade schools which have different emphasis in their curricula (arts, music, science, etc.) and although they chose to go to their neighborhood school,  their cousin (who lived 10 miles away) chose to go to school with them rather than her own closest school. 

There are 2 high schools in that district,  and kids often elect to go to one rather than the other, based on different programs that are offered. 

If you want to go outside your school system,  if you are willing to pay the tuition you can do it.  A famous case of this were the Van Arsdale twins back in the 1960's,  who went to Manual High School (Indianapolis Public Schools) rather than their own, mall township school,  because of the basketball program.  (Their father was a shop teacher at Manual.)  The larger school got them a state basketball championship and pro ball contracts.

Most of the kids who receive vouchers undr the Indiana program are not going to be going to suburban schools.  They won't have the transportation.  They are going to be going to Catholic or charter schools (many now being set up) near their homes.  Or they will go to The Oaks Academy in Indianapolis, run by a Presbyterian church and has a traditional,  classical (Latin, etc.) curriculum.

97 Russ Carnahan, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

98 Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 09:16 AM (XdlcF)

that's interesting.  had no idea.  But the property in harrison is very expensive, estates.  I would imagine most of them send their kids off to boarding schools.  I think the district has to make the decision to accept tuition paying students.  I know several districts that will not allow anyone without proof that they actually live in the district to attend, even for tuition and I was surprised by that but now I'm beginning to understand why they have this rule in place.

99 Posted by: Mama AJ at March 31, 2011 09:16 AM (XdlcF)

I have seen that kind of thing a lot, even a long time ago. I knew some fellow students whose parents paid to have their children from the country attend the city schools where I was at (at that time the city schools were better).

But these were not done as part of a voucher system. However, things are changing though all over the country as to how school systems are financed. The "local" portion is being removed and it is moving to a statewide financing. This is being done as a result of civil suits by the NAACP which somehow challenge school financing by county as being "discriminatory" which is absolute BS.

Here they recently underwent such a suit and the NAACP lost but the State agreed to change the financing anyway. Of course, it means more money and more power for them.

The State implemented a 2 cents sales tax and eliminated local property taxes for schools (it was billed separately and could be implemented by the school board). From what I understand this kind of plan is being done all over the country now.

But what our county did when they lost the property tax was simply add a new undetermined "fee" to everyone's tax bill that was about the same amount as we were paying before. So we, in effect, got both taxes now.

100 The info was in the article YOU linked.

You missed my second post and response.

101 See, in cities, I can see the people who paid more for their homes to be in the district of a certain school, ending up totally screwed.  Their high end school could become crowded with a lot more students than it is even meant to service.  NYC, the borough of manhattan, has a handful of good schools.  Most of the exemplary schools are in the boroughs.  As regard the "speical high schools", kids from all over the city take a test and get into those schools.  Where shoo mer lives, they have the best public elementary and middle schools in the city.  Then he sent at least one daughter to Stuyvesant high school, a school for which you must test in.

This is going to impact property values big time.  I guess they figure the housing market may not be coming back so why not really insure that it's dead.

102 I would much prefer we fix those schools.

Ben I have long said that the ONLY way we will every fix the school system is to eliminate ALL public schools and get the government out of it all together.

That will require a Constitutional amendment in most States, but then that would get the courts out of the system as well. The courts have long been part of the problem, I would say just about as much as the unions.

103 I know someone who is in law school now so that when he gets admitted he can sue his school district.  When you hear his story, it's definitely discrimination and he is a white male.

104 NOTE:   I checked with SNOPES and this really does work.
 
With all the fear of radiation fallout from Japan I thought it might be useful to tell you about a cheap, effective, homemade radiation tester you can easily assemble and rely on. Just follow these simple instructions:
 
Open a bag of Orville Redenbacher microwave popcorn,
Leave it on your kitchen counter,
If it starts to pop, YOU'RE FUCKED.

105 My microwave sometimes turns itself back on after you stop it. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???

106 From the url,, which didn't link about the Obama nominated judge;

Judge J. Michelle Childs currently sits on the South Carolina Circuit Court, the stateÂ’s trial court of general jurisdiction.  She serves as the Chief Administrative Judge for General Sessions, the stateÂ’s Criminal Court, and a Chief Administrative Judge for the stateÂ’s Business Court.  Judge Childs has served as an Acting Justice for the South Carolina Supreme Court.  Prior to taking the bench in 2006, she was a Commissioner with the South Carolina WorkersÂ’ Compensation Commission from 2002 to 2006, and was Deputy Director, Division of Labor of the South Carolina Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation from 2000 to 2002

107 My microwave sometimes turns itself back on after you stop it. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN???

Boom

/"Smart" network appliance? /

108

I googled Philadelphia charter school list and there are 78. Can point you to a map if you want.

Again, i have no problem with Charter schools and private schools, and if parents want to pay the costs to go to those schools. If vouchers are used that so be it.

The idea i think is bad, would be to let everyone simply pick which school they want to send their kid to.

The schools aren't built to handle it, especially the suburban schools which would be flooded with students.

Also, we would have to pay for busing regardless of whatever anyone tells you. We all know that whatever a minority group wants is a human right and if you say no or that we can't afford it then your a racist.  Busing is extremely expensive.

School choice(or whatever the hell you want to call it) is going to increase costs and thereby increase taxes.

The Inner City school that is built to house 1,000 students won't get shut down if half of the student body leaves, and the maintenance costs will remain, and the teaches in all likelihood won't get fired.

The Suburban school built to house 250 students will have to expand to accomadate its new students. Building and maintenance costs will go up. New teachers will have to be hired or the shitty tteachers from the inner city school might just be moved over to the suburban school as you can't fire teachers in PA unless they kill a student. You will have to pay for transportation for the inner city students.

Again, the idea seems neat but it is going to cost more money and it won't solve the problems.

Vic, Ideologically I agree with you, however it will never ever ever happen. The  education of kids will always remain under the purview of the state. So we might as well do what we can to fix the broken schools rather than shuffle the students around.

109 OK fess up ...

Which moron spawned this kid

Teen suspended for outing porn star secretary

110 With all the fear of radiation fallout from Japan

Official word, no "IMMEDIATE" danger.

Genesis 3:4

111 The Inner City school that is built to house 1,000 students won't get shut down if half of the student body leaves, and the maintenance costs will remain, and the teaches in all likelihood won't get fired.

The public Barack Hussein Obama School closed due to low enrollment and low performance.

Schools in a LOT of districts are being closed for budget reasons as well.

112 Posted by: Ben at March 31, 2011 09:56 AM (wuv1c)

this feels like the "everyone should own a house thing"

113 Since I don't listen to the jug-eared fuck speak, I thought the whole "Labia" thing was just a Moron joke. Guess not.

What an imbecile.

114

113 What you just said about schools could be applied to the economy/job/living conditions in most states.  A municipality/school goes bad (for a variety of reasons) and what's the first thing people do if they can?

They get out.  Now, there's a chance that they will reach the promised land in a new location -- but the likelihood is that they will not disperse out over a wide area, but concentrate in areas supposed to be good.  That in turn overburdens the system, and perhaps some (some, not all) will bring the bad habits that caused the crash at the first place to a new place which will increase the velocity and severity of the new crash.

Then you have two crappy places -- because the first one hasn't been worked on, it's just been allowed to be abandoned and left to rot. You also have social disintegration due to tension between the groups due to competition over scarce resources and in the case of the new place perhaps differing attitudes over many small things, which leads to a generalized dislike.  Even if everyone new moving in was of similar ideology and worldview, there would be disintegration because of sheer volume.  People have this idea that places stay the same through time -- Texas can most definitely become the new Michigan, but what happens when that's the case and Michigan just stays a burned out hulk? 

The new slash and burn mentality of the 21st century first world state, and the big trouble is...pretty soon you run out of places to run to; pretty soon everything is laid to waste and that first world place is a barren wasteland.

115 No doubt he was thinking of Michelle because laying ground troops before her labia would be the only way to go in and survive.

116 Is  it just me or is Steven Tyler looking a little Space Alienish?

117 18 year old spoiled rotten entitled millionaire whines about 14 year old YouTube sensation not paying dues.

Is it just me, or is Miley Cyrus a good pron star name?

118 Mallamutt: "My bold prediction: Chicago Cubs 162-0, World Series Champions."

Eh. Bold would be winning 178, i.e. giving 110%.

119 Is it just me, or is Miley Cyrus a good pron star name?

When I first heard people talking about "Hannah Montana", I automatically assumed they must be referring to an adult movie star.

120 Amusing amusingness...Gallup poll gives HRC an approval rating of 66% (!!!), highest of her tenure and best of anyone in the Badministration.  Which means, naturally, higher than You-Know-Who.

Knives come out to put down a rival in 3...2...1...

121 125:  Her actual given name is 'Destiny'.  As in 'Destiny Hope Cyrus'.

Really, you just can't make this crap up.

122

At Drudge the 12-year-old charged with hate crime story...

The authorities released his name, very irregular.  Charged a truly young juvie with a special intent crime.  That's ridiculous.  Clearly the kid needs a suspension and a different school.  But we need to stop going down this road of the One True Established Religion: Islam.  Amazing how quickly that happened and how willfully blind you have to be not to see it.      

We're almost at that point they are in the UK where preschool teachers are supposed to involve the authorites to make sure everyone thinks correctly.  

123 Someone explain to me why the Wisconsin Legislature doesn't just repass the original bill now that the Democrats are back.

Pretty simple, Ben.  The Wisconsin Legislature is run by The Party of Stupid.

124

I'll bet most of the troops are disappointed they weren't assigned to conquer Labia.  Cruel bait-and-switch.  "Another sand-covered backwater?!"    

125 @5 World Renowned Strategist and Tactician (J.G.)

SvenNation has only one enemy: the United States Air Force.
Everything else is just details. No carrier-based aviator would ever carry out an unpopular strategy. It's all about the Air Force. 'Cause they got all that money in the 1950's! And Sven's never going to forgive them!

Now the air support just isn't "close" enough?
Give it a rest, chief rear admiral. Your stroking hand will cramp.

126 this is floating around my office...not sure why they thought I'd laugh

Weiner roast at the Congressional Correspondent's Dinner

127 Wow. Poor old Pop paying $60k a year to see his little girl on her back with her legs wrapped around some guy's neck. lol!

128 SOUTH LAKE TAHOE, Calif. -- Global warming could make record-setting snowstorms in some parts of the country more common, but not in the Sierra Nevada, according to scientists with the Union for Concerned Scientists.“Heavy snowstorms are not inconsistent with a warming planet,” said Jeff Masters, director of meteorology for www.wunderground.com, in a statement from the Union.

... so, Global Warning will keep down the snow pack in the Sierra Nevadas ...

Fresno- Thanks to our wetter than normal winter, Governor Jerry Brown is set to declare an end to California's 3-year-drought....Governor Brown is expected to announce an end to the drought on Wednesday, after the Department of Water Resources conducts their last monthly snow survey.At last check, the sierra snowpack was 159% of normal.

... maybe the Governor can announce the end of Global Warming, too.

129 Wisconsin:  Sumi declares collective bargaining changes not in effect

The Wisconsin SC should slap her down just for the overreach.

130 Anybody notice that since July, the RCP Presidential approval graph is in the shape of a wang?

131 If HR-1 would kill 70,000 children as this administration claims, then my calculator says that balancing the budget would kill 2 million kids.

Sorry kids, it's you or me.

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