1 I'm still glad that war against those damn Libyan rebels is over.

2 How goes the invasion of Curacao?

3 With all the money we saved in the massive budget cuts, let's just hire the French to do the war in Libya! Oh, wait..

4 No gob shutdown. The Repubs bent over and said give me another. I knew they would.

Now we see the important one. What are they going to do with 2012. The CR was a sideshow. The next one is the make or break.

5 One reason I know I am probably one of the oldest people who posts on Ace:  I thought Boehner did better than expected and proved himself to be an able and wily negotiator.

The democrats wanted ZERO cuts.  Then they said that 20 billion was "draconian."  So we got almost 39 billion plus the DC Scholarship program,   a vote on Obamacare in the Senate, and disappointed and angry democrats. 

On Twitter this morning Reich was saying that "the right wing bullies" won.  He is angry.  Matt Yglesias says that they are going backwards and that the GOP "hostage takers" won. 

I am pleased. 

Remember,  Reagan always said you go for the best deal you can get,  and then go back for more. 

And Paul Ryan is giving the Republican response this morning.  Heh.

6 I bet we could kick the shit out of Belize.

7 The conversation has turned from how much we want to spend to how much we're going to cut. The big picture looks good, and the rest is just details.

8 With all the money we saved lets go to Disney World.

9 Interesting comment from Huckabee on Trump:  "He doesn't have to worry about what donors will think."

10 I bet we could kick the shit out of Belize.

Posted by: Bugler at April 09, 2011 08:47 AM (VXBR1)

No!  We need that place as an escape option.

11 Posted by: Miss Marple
----
Yeah, I agree.  Not only 39 Billion, but the few billion for each of those CR's over the last month as well.

Too many folks around here forget we have a Dem President and a Dem-controlled Senate.  The only way we will ever get meaningful budget cuts is with Repubs in control of all three... and even then, I'm not real hopeful.

I thought Boehner played the "social riders" really well.  The stupid Dems probably bargained away several billion in other cuts just to get those riders dropped.  I would call them "morons", but that's too good for them!

12 So was Planned Parenthood funded?

13 Was NPR, PBS defunded?

14 I think maybe this Miss Marple might be on to something. Like the man says- to get out of a hole the first step is to stop digging. This hasn't stopped the digging, and really hasn't even slowed the digging, but a few people have at least thought about slowing down.

15 #12 countrydoc: Planned Parenthood was funded but abortions in DC were nixed.  Kathryn Lopez who is very pro-life thought it was a pretty good deal.

Plus they got rid of the increased IRS agents for Obamacare and a vote in the Senate over Obamacare funding,  which will put a lot of senators on the spot.

Also,  DC scholarships were reinstated..

16 I am really pleased to hear about the DC scholarship program. Anytime we can get a kid out of the maw of gov't skrooling, it's a good thing.

17 Details of the deal now posted in the sidebar.

18 5 Miss Marple and 11, Chi-Town: Agree with both of you. We've actually made cuts, while having NEITHER the Presidency NOR the Senate -- which is huge. And everyone knows non-defense discretionary spending isn't the problem, the problems are Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the other entitlement programs like WIC. Am I the only one who remembers when the House flipped in 06 and the budget wasn't finished, the Dems just ran the entire fiscal year on a CR -- basically punting by running the government on autopilot because they didn't want to fight two budget battles at the same time. The GOP decided they are serious about cutting and are going to cut every time they can. Is it everything I want? No, but we lost that battle when Reid and Murray and Boxer, etc., won re-election. I'll take what we can get, and hope use the real hammer of the debt ceiling and the Ryan FY2012 budget to get more.

19 Miss Marple - DC Scholarships or DC Vouchers?  I thought it was vouchers.

20 How did the democrats get to be so powerful?  Incrementalism.  Always,  always pushing,  pushing,  a little here,  a little there.

Now,  as much as anyone,  I wish we could wave a magic wand and get everything done at once.  That is fairytale world,  however, and what we must do is support the effort to chip,  chip,  chip at this spending every damn day.

All things must be viewed through theeffort to cut spending.   And it is going to take a long effort and perseverence.

We will accomplish nothing if we turn on our people when they don't get everything in one swoop.

Try to look at this as if it were a personal budget.  If you are in debt,  sure you would like to win the lottery and just pay everyone off all at once.  But since the odds of that happening are small,  the only way you will get out of debt is to start reining in your spending and paying more than the minimum payment on your charge cards.

Also,  if people like Boehner don't get support from conservatives for doing the best that they can,  then why should they try?  If all they catch is constant criticism,  pretty soon they will stop listening to us.

21 Shoot, I was so looking forward to Gabe's tribute to the leadership of Speaker Cryin John.

22 If we don't continue to fund government programs the sun won't rise, there won't be any food or air and everyone will die except for EVIL white, conservative males who work for EVIL corporations.

23 So the Gov stays open? So glad Obama took credit for it. By the way 39 billion? Hardly enough to get me out of debt. OK maybe enough to get me out of debt, but not much would left over for a new car

24 #21  I will give him that tribute.  Think about this:  he had to stand up to Obama,  Reid,  and Biden by himself in the Oval Office.  He had to hold the GOP together.  He did this without grandstanding and making himself the issue.

He is a much better leader than most of you guys give him credit for. 

25 Posted by: MaureenTheTemp
..........
Yup - the debt ceiling is going to the next tool Boehner uses.

What I love most about Boehner, is he has used the Tea Party folks as the shock troops out there floating ideas to the press and what not, and has just kept mum about the details.  It's like rope-a-dope against the Dems and Harry Reid just can't keep up.

26

 bet we could kick the shit out of Belize.

With all the money we saved lets go to Disney World.

Uh oh, I think he may plan to take over Disneyland, DW and Disneyland Tokyo.

27 #25  I agree with you.  He will use the debt ceiling to force more concessions.

And I am sure we will have another group here who will carry on about what he is doing,  call him a squish, etc.

Boehner is a lot smarter than people think.  And he demonstrates this by not going on TV all the time and talking about how smart he is.

28

Well, the Kos crowd is wailing and gnashing teeth over the budget deal.  Pledging no more campaigning or donating to Obama.  Some, with usual histrionics, say they won't vote for him in 2012, or will vote for whomever primaries him.

They want to start tracking how many people die as a result of these cuts.

It's a good morning!

29 But others are here covering for Gabe and spinning like crazy. And Faux News is now erecting monuments to Boner, as predicted.

30 >> They want to start tracking how many people die as a result of these cuts. That warms the cockles of my little black heart.

31 Plus they got rid of the increased IRS agents for Obamacare

Happy dance! ... that's quite a win, I think.

Well, the 1099 provision was already undone, so they were sort-of unneeded anyway. Still, I doubt the Democrats didn't still want thousands more IRS agents.

32 I'm worried about Kasich in Ohio.  A WSJ piece says his approval rating is in the tank, and that unions and other opposition are gearing up for referendum recalls in this November's election.  Supposedly, support is there.

There is not enough time between now and then to have the new programs, which have not even been signed into law yet, take effect and show results.

If the unions come through and those results go 51-49 in favor of recall, Ohio, with a repub gov and a state senate and house to match, might not look red at all for 2012.  And we need electoral votes to beat the messiah.

33 This hasn't stopped the digging, and really hasn't even slowed the digging, but a few people have at least thought about slowing down. If the Feds were a married couple, they would need to cut up the credit cards. This week was a small victory, along the lines of "I didn't smoke at all until 2PM!"

34 It's not a done deal yet .. wait until next week when they have the vote...

35 #31  When they got rid of the 1099 provision,  they didn't get rid of the IRS agents.  (I imagine Obama thought he could find another use for them,  like harassing every GOP voter in swing states or something).

That was a whole lot of government paychecks that were going to be cut,  and once you get employees IN government it is very hard to get rid of them.  So I consider that a major win.

36 I agree with Miss Marple, perfect deal no, that't why it's called a deal. I have read the "hill to die on" metaphor but here is the problem with that, we are the force at the bottom of the hill. The enemy has the high ground and they are entrenched, a long battle is going to have to be fought to dislodge them. I have noticed local radio & TV stations subtly changing the framing of this story all week. The mushy middle has to be brought around and they don't get their news on blogs therefore, small things like lead ins to stories on local media changing from "defunding womens helthcare" to "defunding taxpayer supported abortion" are critical. Framing the debate is as important as the debate itself. Could we have won the shutdown blame spin....no. that's why this deal had to be made. 

37 I'm sure glad we gave these guys(Congress) a mandate in the 2010 election! The only people acting like they won something are the Governors.

38 This is a good one too:

The agreement will generate new tools for the fight to repeal Obamacare by requiring numerous studies that will force the Obama Administration to reveal the true impact of the lawÂ’s mandates, including a study of how individuals and families will see increased premiums as a result of certain Obamacare mandates; a full audit of all the waivers that the Obama Administration has given to firms and organizations – including unions - who can't meet the new annual coverage limits; a full audit of what's happening with the comparative effectiveness research funding that was in Obamacare and the presidentÂ’s failed “stimulus” spending bill; and a report on all of the contractors who have been hired to implement the law and the costs to taxpayers of such contracts.   

39 Try to look at this as if it were a personal budget.  If you are in debt,  sure you would like to win the lottery and just pay everyone off all at once.  But since the odds of that happening are small,  the only way you will get out of debt is to start reining in your spending and paying more than the minimum payment on your charge cards.

Also,  if people like Boehner don't get support from conservatives for doing the best that they can,  then why should they try?  If all they catch is constant criticism,  pretty soon they will stop listening to us.

Posted by: Miss Marple at April 09, 2011 09:01 AM (Fo83G)

I get your last point, well said.

The analogy is off a bit.  Our national "income" is only about 60% of our spending.  We are borrowing the other 40%.  We can't even begin to think about paying down the debt we've accumulated until spending is slashed.

Since the left doesn't want anybody to have a chance at getting wealthy, measures to grow the economy (GDP) are not on the table.  All that's left is spending cuts. 

40 On Twitter this morning Reich was saying that "the right wing bullies" won.  He is angry.  Matt Yglesias says that they are going backwards and that the GOP "hostage takers" won. 

That right there makes my day.

41 Regarding Obamaceare I want to tell you guys something.  My husband and I are trying to get private insurance,  since he works overseas and his company doeson't provide insurance in the USA (guess why).

We just got turned down by anthem for the exact same policy that we had in 2007 when he was unemployed.   We are taking the same medications and are in good health as we were 4 years ago.

We are appealing,   but the agent agreed with me that they are turning down everyone with even a blip on their health record (mine is hypertension) because they know they are going to have to take everyone in 2014.

I will bet you there are LESS people with insurance now than there were a year ago.

42

Ohio is fourth generation organized labor.  Labor still has clout and leverage, but not as much as at their peak in the '60's.  There will be a lot of noise and campaigning, but it will come down to a vote in November, a referendum on SB5 (Senate Bill 5, limiting collective bargaining by unionized gov. employees).

SB5's biggest immediated impact is on the local government, not state government (indirectly).  The state PERS (public employees retirement system) is actually pretty well funded.  But local governments / school boards are up against it with respect to financing, etc. And to help bring the state budget into balance, Kasich and the Republicans have cut state "aid"  (subsidies) to town and city governments all over the state.  They've got a choice how they are going to fill up their shortfalls in tax revenue versus expenses and payouts, and SB5 can help them get their.

Right now the anti-SB5 people have the "upper hand", as they and the newspapers have been most vociferous about campaigning against SB5.  The Republicans and the Kasich administration have not even started to make a public case for why SB5 is important, and just what is means.

November is still a long way away.

43 I hope you 1/2 glass full folks are right.

44

Interesting comment from Huckabee on Trump:  "He doesn't have to worry about what donors will think."

What, it took a comment from Huck to bring that out?  I've been saying that for the past week.  No back-scratching for Donald. 

45 @ 40, yep. Spend a little time on prog sites, and the spirit lifts! This plus the WI vote really has them all angry and dispirited. Nanny P is being raked over the coals for dithering on the budget, when she was speaker-extraordinaire.

46 Look, it was a win, take it and move on. Was it a no-hitter? no, But the discussion has moved our way. We are bitching about not enough cuts, but the Dems are screaming louder about it. Because, as we know, the answer to every problem in this life is more government spending thrown at it.

47 katya,  I know you have been making that point.  The interesting thing was that Huckabee said it on TV.

And also opened himself up to the charge that HE has to listen to donors!  Bwahahaha!

48 @45 interesting Pelosi wasn't even in town yesterday, doing some forum @ Tufts Univ. Not even involved, interesting what a difference a few months of the R's hammering the deficit have made, all she has is old people starving sound bites and then flees town.

49 Nanny P is being raked over the coals for dithering on the budget, when she was speaker-extraordinaire.

Anything that makes Nanny P take it in the tailpipe can't be all bad.

50 As long as Obama gets to go on that much needed, long planned vacation....I'm happy

51  Look, it was a win, take it and move on come right back for more. Was it a no-hitter? no, But the discussion has moved our way. We are bitching about not enough cuts, but the Dems are screaming louder about it. Because, as we know, the answer to every problem in this life is more government spending thrown at it.

Posted by: Tom at April 09, 2011 09:25 AM (MWXXs)

What I would do.  Debt ceiling, next CR, next budget.  Keep hacking away at spending.

 

52 Anything that makes Nanny P take it in the tailpipe can't be all bad. You first.

53

I will bet you there are LESS people with insurance now than there were a year ago.

 

There definitely are.  Despite the "Unemployment" stats, there are more people unemployed and underemployed which no doubt decreases the rolls of people on  private insurance plans.  Add to that, the fact that insurance companies have dropped their "child only" plans because of O-care.  Yesterday, I was driving home, and a talker on the radio said that "Just 6 pages of Obamcare legislation resulted in 240+ new pages of regulations."  This alone will drive insurance companies out of business, and force employers to drop their health care coverage.  We haven't even seen the tip of the shitstorm yet. 

 

54

Dingy old sock!

 

55 We are bitching about not enough cuts,...

And we should continue to do so.  ...even those of you who are admonishing those of us who aren't naturally optimistic.

56 I can't believe I am saying this, but I'd back Trump over the Huckster.

57 51 As long as Obama gets to go on that much needed, long planned vacation....I'm happy   first thought that pooped out of my head when I watched his smarmy, lying face this a.m. on that vid where he says "2 groups of people who think differently compromised, and the gobmint is open for business..." and then takes the credit was, this guy wants to get the eff out of town and get going on his Williamsburg trip.  And yes, I meant pooped! 

58 You first.

Posted by: fluffy at April 09, 2011 09:31 AM (4Kl5M)

Let's get Mikey to try it...

59 The only way we will ever get meaningful budget cuts is with Repubs in control of all three... and even then, I'm not real hopeful.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry




Well then -- we'd all better get used to being real disappointed, because since 1945 the Republicans have controlled all three units for only four years, the 108th and 109th congresses.

And those particular Republicans were a group of seniority first, my earmarks uber alles, reach across the aisle types that happily busted the budget when they were running the show.

And they're still around....

60 tom it's a win?

61 @ runningrn It was probably pre-recorded.....he was watching it with the rest of us admiring his charming smile and chin thrusts

62 Not even half of the $100B promised. Boehner can go straight to hell.

63

Chris Mathews waxes philosophic on the hidden benefits of using illicit drugs.

From Big Government

64 Congressional leaders announced late Friday night they had reached a deal to fund the government through the end of the fiscal year and made preparations to pass the proposed bill next week.

WOW! Right out of the blue they settle the annual budget, half a year late, but still out of the blue. What are the odds of that?

65 16:06 Syrian rights group says at least 37 protesters were killed across the country on Friday (Reuters) Hillary Attention Hillary: Massacre, Massacre, Massacre. Oh if Syria does it, it is no Massacre? Oops I must not have gotten that memo?

66 Perpetual war.  Who knew it would ever get this good.

67 And those particular Republicans were a group of seniority first, my earmarks uber alles, reach across the aisle types that happily busted the budget when they were running the show.

And they're still around....

Term limits.

68 Plus they got rid of the increased IRS agents for Obamacare and a vote in the Senate over Obamacare funding,  which will put a lot of senators on the spot.

Posted by: Miss Marple

Cutting IRS agents - I'll take that as good news any day. 

 How did the democrats get to be so powerful?  Incrementalism.  Always,  always pushing,  pushing,  a little here,  a little there.

Incrementalism is bound to favor the left over the right.  They push for a little bigger program, a little more money, a little more control over our lives.  Then it's almost impossible to get rid of the bureaucrats who runs these programs once they have a foot in the door. 

But having said that, I totally agree that we can't be all "I'm going to pick up my ball and run home because I didn't get all the things I wanted right now."  Conservatives tend to shoot our own wounded.  Leftists defend their side at all costs (ie rapist Bill Clinton was always strongly defended by feminists).

69 Oh  - and off damn sock!

70 Judge Jeanine Pirro on Fox News.  I wish she would run for President.

71 Posted by: nevergiveup at April 09, 2011 09:39 AM (0GFWk)

Nothing to see...move along.

But if an Arab gets a hangnail at a border crossing in Israel, the UN will have a special session to ramp up its anti-Jew rhetoric.

72 >>And we should continue to do so. ...even those of you who are admonishing those of us who aren't naturally optimistic. You know who else is bitching about enough cuts? Boehner, Ryan and the rest of the folks who will be leading the next round of negotiations. I'm not being optimistic, I'm just trying to be realistic. There was never a chance that they were going to cut $100 billion from the 2011 budget, not with control only of the House. Remember, that was a goal that was laid out during an election when it looked like they might control both houses. Without the Senate they had very little leverage and they still got almost $40 billion, $78 billion less than Obama requested. And the two big fights are yet to come. Think of this round as prepping the battle field. Had Boehner allowed a shutdown this cycle we would have heard endless bleating about Republicans wanting to make cruel cuts while Dems want to take care of the poor, blah, blah. We would have lost that round and the next ones to come. Now, the Dem leadership is on board with cuts, they are playing on our side of the ledger. Strategery.

73

Yesterday, at work, people were glued to CNN in the breakroom.  (Always ruins my lunch).  One of the lesbian anesthesiologists, turned to me and said "I bet the rest of the world is laughing at us now."  I said "Well, it is ridiculous.  This budget should have been completed last year."  I was surprised when she agreed with me, and also agreed that we needed term limits.  She said that would be beneficial in getting rid of pork, lobbying, and PAC's.  I said "Yeah, when you need to rolled up in a wheelchair in your Depends diaper, and someone needs to wake you up to vote, that's just wrong.  I also brought up the fact that the American Trial Lawyers Assoc. is the largest political donor and that and the fact that a lot of those stooges in Congress are lawyers resulted in no tort reform being included in O-care and how wrong that was.

We then sat there as the commentator on CNN went through the laundry list of all the things that evil Republicans were defunding.  One of the things mentioned was "Free cholesterol screenings."  The anesthesiologist kind of snorted and said "You can get those anywhere and they aren't being paid for by government money."  I almost choked out my apple and nearly fell off my chair!

I am almost certain she is a liberal Democrat, but even she is disgusted with the inanity and lies that are being spread. 

74 "Cop pepper spray's squirrel"... SPRAY'S? http://www.apostropheabuse.com/ Let's all of u's ju'st put an apo'strophe before every 's written, ju'st to be 'safe.

75 Yesterday we witnessed the Power of Trillion. The Dems know their Empire is crumbling. Two years ago it was "The Stimulus will save America." Now it is "The Ryan Plan is less than half of what we need to do." Yesterday was a victory.

76 Without the Senate they had very little leverage and they still got almost $40 billion,

And you know why?  Folks, both sides, are bitching about the amount of government spending.  Without it, there would be no Demonrats will to go along at all.

77 I'm looking @ NRO and it's confirming something from last night, that McCarthy may be short by more votes* for Rogers' final bill. So this might get rather interesting.

_{*Since he needed Dem crossover to pass, and there was strong Dem crossover}

78 Posted by: runningrn at April 09, 2011 09:43 AM (ihSHD)

I haven't spoken to anyone in months who is happy with the way things are going in our government and in our country. The question I would have for your gas-passer is whether she is willing to vote against the special interest groups who have counted on her vote for a very long time?

People bitch and moan and complain, but then they pull the lever for the "same old boss." That's what has gotten us in this mess, and changing that paradigm is the only way to get us out!

79 Ezra Klein is feeling the Dems lost and lost badly last night. It warms my heart to see the continued negative feelings from lib journalists.

80 61 tom

it's a win?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 09, 2011 09:37 AM (eOXTH)

Yes, it is a win. It puts a stop to additional spending. All the Democrats were howling about how "draconian" the cuts were. Yet they folded. Sure the GOP promised $100 billion, that was "pie in the sky" and without control of the Senate and the WH, that was never going to happen. We got cuts, we got lots of other stuff that was "sacred" to Dems. This deal shows that the only thing that is TRULY sacred to Dems is abortion. Odds are the GOP gets the Senate in 2012, and possibly the WH, so a little patience is in order.

81 Posted by: ktnxbai *cough* at April 09, 2011 09:47 AM (dA43O)

I feel 'safer already. It's 'so liberating a's a way of expre's'sing thought!

82 Posted by: Tom at April 09, 2011 09:52 AM (MWXXs)

I understand your optimism, but we are dealing with a budget deficit that is 40 times the cuts. I don't see how we are going to return to fiscal sanity until our representatives take seriously the real possibility of default and widespread unrest in America. They are ignoring the reality of the situation because the short -term rewards are significant (they stay in office).

83 Apostrophe's rule!

84 Political theatre. Screw the Republicans; they're rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. 2% of the debt? Screw them hard.

85 So, now that the Preznit had declared the government a business, will the 35% corporate tax be levied? I had though for years that big business was bad, but I read his statement and I feel much better about big business

86 >>And you know why? Folks, both sides, are bitching about the amount of government spending. Without it, there would be no Demonrats will to go along at all. No doubt, that's exactly my point. What do you think all this politicking over the last couple years was about? We, those of us who have been bitching about spending for years and have helped fuel groups like the Tea Party and helped elect more Republicans and conservatives, have changed the tone of the battle. As was noted above, the last 2 years have been all about huge trillion dollars stimulus bills, runaway budgets and Obamacare. Now, we are talking about cuts. That is a remarkable change of directions. Yea, I would have liked more. You would have liked more. But we have shifted the equilibrium and set the stage for the bigger battles to come.

87

#74 runningrn,

We're all disgusted, and I think that is why Trump has a really good chance of being our next president.

88

Since the smoke has cleared a bit, I think Speaker Boehner did a good job. I like him, and do not give a hoot if he gets tears in his eyes from standing ovations. Big deal. The guy cares, or seems to care about this country. He is the only adult in the building. So I stand with Miss Marple and the Count and others today (and Ace last night). This is a start, peoples.

My joy, this moment, comes from the hissy meltdowns I have heard of from MSNBC and the liberal left for the cuts. This is a quote from Ezra Klein in the WaPo on the transparent stupidity of Harry the Whine declaring this moment to be historic (every moment for the Dems appears histrionic instead, with dying cherry blossoms and starving seniors and invasion of uteruses):

"By celebrating spending cuts, theyÂ’ve opened the door to further austerity measures at a moment when the recovery remains fragile. Claiming political victory now opens the door to further policy defeats later."

Open that door wide, Speaker Boehner and GOP.

89 Over at NRO, Andrew McCarthy puts the boot in:

...the reaction is, “We won!” You’ve got to be kidding me. The only thing Boehner won is future assurance that GOP leadership can safely promise the moon but then settle for crums because their rah-rah corner will spin any paltry accomplishment, no matter how empty it shows the promise to have been, as a tremendous victory.

And what’s the rationale for settling? Why, that these numbers are so piddling — that the $21 billion difference is so meaningless in the context of $14 trillion — that it’s best just to settle, make believe the promise was never made, make believe we didn’t flinch, and put this episode behind us so we can begin the “real work” of the next promise, the Ryan Plan.

Regarding that plan, you’re to believe that the captains courageous who caved on $21 billion — and who got elected because of Obamacare but don’t even want to discuss holding out for a cancellation of $105 billion in Obamacare funding — are somehow going to fight to the death for $6 trillion in cuts. Right.

90 Yesterday I saw a great vid on PJTV (I think it was Ben's link on the sidebar, it's gone now, though) "Imagination Land"  If you haven't watched it, please do.  It's sooo true.  Go to PJTVdotcom to view.  I watched it twice. 

91 I understand your optimism, but we are dealing with a budget deficit that is 40 times the cuts. I don't see how we are going to return to fiscal sanity until our representatives take seriously the real possibility of default and widespread unrest in America. They are ignoring the reality of the situation because the short -term rewards are significant (they stay in office). Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at April 09, 2011 09:55 AM (LH6ir) Explain how real cuts can get past the Dem Senate and Ebola. The cuts we need to make are impossible now. If the GOP keeps doing what it is doing now, they may become possible in 2013.

92 I read a comment at Althouse last night, they said...there was a part that recinded on applying  money to pay for IRSs agents for obamacare?

93

P.S. It is not a small thing that in this battle, from what I have read and I could be wrong here... there will be an up or down vote on funding Planned Unparenthood, and on Obamacare repeal. Reid had to agree to this before the deal was cut.This is what they are scared of, in addition to any cuts at all (remember, Obama wanted to go into further debt).

I think Pro Life should use Kermit Gosnell as the poster doctor for legal abortions, as his butcher shop was no back alley with rusty coathangers.

94 that is a big win in my mind if true.

95

The question I would have for your gas-passer is whether she is willing to vote against the special interest groups who have counted on her vote for a very long time?

 

Yeah, I don't know.  I had to go back to work, and she isn't someone I ever work with.  (She does anesthesia for every service but mine).  It was just a chance encounter in the breakroom.  It left me kind of gleeful.  It seems the vast majority of surgeons are more conservative, and the anesthesia department definitely skews way more liberal (always interesting to me, and I don't know why that is.  And it's not that the one group is in private practice and the other is hired by the hospital.  Our anesthesia services are contracted out to private practice docs.)  I do think that even these civically minded, progressive, social liberals who actually work really hard and make real money are getting just a little tired of having to pay for everything.  The cracks are in the mortar.  This overspending cannot last.

96 Nice of the republicans to slip this in.  No wonder they have their reputation of protecting big business.

Maybe, instead of believing the press clippings they, the republicans, should actually educated themselves.  Sure the FCC may not be the place for this, probably not, but then someone write a law protecting us before the little bloggers go the way of the hardware store on main street.

97 After reading Andy McCarthy's (Apostrophe's Rule!) piece in NRO I must say I am sure he is good at other stuff.

98
If the much touted big win last night was so all encompassing, why is my ass bleeding and extremely sore and puffy?

99 >>Maybe, instead of believing the press clippings they, the republicans, should actually educated themselves. Sure the FCC may not be the place for this, probably not, but then someone write a law protecting us before the little bloggers go the way of the hardware store on main street. Net neutrality is one of the dumbest, most anti-competitive rules ever passed. There's a reason the left loves net neutrality and anyone who favors free enterprise hates it.

100 Dems control White House, not fond of cuts.
Dems control Senate, not fond of cuts.
GOP controls House, fond of cuts.

There were cuts.

101 The article i linked to was linked from here.

102 The terms to which Reid had to agree

Commentary by Andrew Stiles

103 If the much touted big win last night was so all encompassing, why is my ass bleeding and extremely sore and puffy? Posted by: Fish the Impaler at April 09, 2011 10:10 AM (ZHsNw) The donkey on your t-shirt?

104 This budget is like an infected wound. Putting a bandaid on an infected wound will never heal it! Clean it out and TAKE THE DAMN MEDICINE you wimps!!

105 Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:11 AM (k1rwm) Let me guess: all your NY friends like Net Neutrality.

106
One of the lesbian anesthesiologists......

Posted by: runningrn at April 09, 2011 09:43 AM (ihSHD)

Storyline:  So two lesbian anesthesiologists, Barkey, Okra, and Miss Grahamnesty walk into a gay leather bar..........

107 Why do I think we got boned?  Here's what Karen Tumulty of TIME thought:

"But whether by design or necessity, Boehner managed to make the most of that limited leverage — both in forcing President Obama and the Democrats to come more than halfway on his party’s demand for spending cuts, and in making the absolutists in his own ranks accept the principle that compromise is part of governing."

When she praises Boehner?  That's bad for us.  And I'd really like to know where she's measuring halfway from.

108 Newsbusters: Dems will demagogue Paul Ryan until the next election

109 sorry tom.....i'm with fish on this one....it doesn't feel like a win.....we got tossed a bone and now i'm afraid it will be business as usual......i wish i could be more optimistic about this .....

110 Posted by: JackStraw at April 09, 2011 09:57 AM (TMB3S)

We're in violent agreement, our view is just different.  You can keep me looking at the positive, and I'll make sure your optimism is grounded.

111 Nice of the republicans to slip this in.  No wonder they have their reputation of protecting big business.

Maybe, instead of believing the press clippings they, the republicans, should actually educated themselves.  Sure the FCC may not be the place for this, probably not, but then someone write a law protecting us before the little bloggers go the way of the hardware store on main street.

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:07 AM (k1rwm)

Is this a parody?

112 the libs aren't whining enough......

113 When she praises Boehner? That's bad for us. And I'd really like to know where she's measuring halfway from. Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 10:14 AM (McG46) Step 1: Stop reading Time. Step 2: See Step 1.

114 97 Nice of the republicans to slip this in.

That's a separate resolution, according to your link.  It would be nice if they got it included in the budget deal though.

115 As long as there is no budget, they are busy shoveling the money out the back door of the White House. How are we going to win in 2012 when the payoff is being done NOW!

116 The republicans need to educate themselves and join the democrats in protecting the little blogger.   link

117

DENIES ADDITIONAL FUNDING TO THE IRS.  The Obama administration has sought increased federal funding for the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) – money that could be used to hire additional agents to enforce the administrationÂ’s agenda on a variety of issues.  This increased funding is denied in the agreement

miss80s link

oh yeah

118 >>We're in violent agreement, our view is just different. You can keep me looking at the positive, and I'll make sure your optimism is grounded. Deal. But my tiger blood is boiling this morning. Winning! Duh!

119 109 Newsbusters: Dems will demagogue Paul Ryan until the next election

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at April 09, 2011 10:15 AM (uVLrI)

Let them, he's got a safe seat.

120 Yes a great victory. I am so glad everyone thinks so. They promise 100B, then write a bill for 61B, then start with the bend over and do little CRs to avoid Dem threats.

When they started that BS I knew it was over. They wound up settling for peanuts.  But there is only one thing that matters out of this because I have consistently said this was a sideshow. The 2012 budget is the main attraction.

But, what this deal shows is really symbolic. It shows what the Republican leadership is made of. The leadership and the controlling RINOs (yes I said that word) will fold like a cheap Woolworth suit if the Dems threaten them with a 1995 strategy. 

I don't have any confidence in the 2012 budget now. They have sold us out for a handful of beans. The Dems now know they are chickenshit and all they have to do is hang tough on the 2012 budget. You people who keep whining about the fact that the Dems own the Senate and the President need to go read your Constitution. The House can force the issue. But......when all you have is the House it takes balls.

Sadly, the only people in the Republican Party with balls right now are Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann. And 3/4 of the Morons just want to trash them. So yes, bring on the Monty doom because we are truly and thoroughly boned.

121 curious, you are either a very clever troll or someone who desperately needs to move to Texas.

122

MANDATORY AUDITS OF THE NEW JOB-CRUSHING BUREAUCRACY SET UP UNDER DODD-FRANK.  The agreement subjects the so-called Consumer Financial Protection Bureau created by the job-destroying Dodd-Frank law to yearly audits by both the private sector and the Government Accountability Office (GAO) to monitor its impact on the economy, including its impact on jobs, by examining whether sound cost-benefit analyses are being used with rulemakings

another nice one

Miss80s link again

123 I'm not sure what magic people expected to happen last night.

We're completely impotent until we get the cancer out of the White House and reclaim the Senate.

Most people aren't wonky politically savvy types. With all due respect to my fellow Americans, they're either willfully ignorant to our current reality and coming economic calamity or they're just dumb in general.

You want the government shutting down as people are expecting their tax refunds and they're trying to find a way to fill their gas tanks @ $4 a gallon?

I don't.

124 Posted by: Vic at April 09, 2011 10:19 AM (M9Ie6) The House can force the issue, but it can not force the Senate to vote the way it wants and it can not force Ebola to sign a bill. THe cuts we need are impossible now.

125 Since a deal was made last night, is Barky's Williamsburg week-end on?

126 85 Political theatre. Screw the Republicans; they're rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. 2% of the debt? Screw them hard.

So I take it you wouldn't have liked the deal regardless of whether it was $38.5B or $61.5B. If it doesn't matter, then why should they have fought for any cuts for this fiscal year?

127 Even $100 billion was chickenshit.

128 Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 10:16 AM (McG46)

No, it's a wake up call for you guys.  You need to educate yourself on this stuff now cause they are quietly voting on it now.  I'm an independent.  I can see both sides and right now, they are both wrong and they aren't educating themselves.  The republicans, could actually win a lot of young hearts and minds on this issue if one of them were to take it up like Paul Ryan took up the budget.  The dems are right on this, the republicans should join them.  The FCC should be out of it completely, everything they've touched has turned to shit.

129 Word, eman.

130 Posted by: Vic at April 09, 2011 10:19 AM (M9Ie6)

This is one of the few times I agree completely with Vic.

Until the professional politicians who masquerade as principled Republicans and conservatives are thrown out of office, we will continue to get these kinds of agreements. The cuts are 2.5% of the deficit. The Republican majority spend political capital on 2.5%. That is laughable.

131 The cuts we need to make are impossible now.

The cuts we need are impossible period. Collapse is inevitable, it's just a question of time.

132 DAMN but I looked presidential and godlike when I took credit where credit was due last night.

133 120 109 Let them, he's got a safe seat.

He actually doesn't. His district is a union district which has only voted for two Republican presidents since the '80s. So I think that, while he's run on his Roadmap in his district for a number of years, this time might be different. But who really knows?

134 Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:25 AM (k1rwm) So, the Internet, this thing that grew on its own into something that can empower ordinary people like nothing before needs Government regulation to protect the little guy? You can't be serious? From now on you are a troll. Why? Because even if you are sincere you promote what is wrong.

135 >>curious at April 09, 2011 10:25 AM (k1rwm) I've forgotten more about the internet and how it works then you will ever know. I worked for Cisco in the early days of the internet, before it was the internet if fact, and some of my early customers were the original Tier1 backbone builders of the public internet. Net neutrality is a dumb idea that is anti-competitive, anti-free enterprise and an attempt by the government to control the the content distribution on the net. It's stupid and evil, bonus. Perhaps you should spend a little more time understanding the relationship between gov't and business before lecturing us on understanding a dumb proposal.

136
"This deal is a historic scam."

"We need new leaders in Washington."

-Mark Levine

137 122 curious, you are either a very clever troll or someone who desperately needs to move to Texas.

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 09, 2011 10:20 AM (dT+/n)

Most people do not understand the idea of net neutrality.  If it isn't broken why touch it?  The health care system wasn't broken, it is now.   What's wrong with an issue that everyone, republican and democrat can agree on?

138 Looks like I'm still being forced to pay for the murder of unborn babies.  What was that I've read that Jefferson said?  Something about forcing someone to pay for something they find abhorrent being the highest form of tyranny?  Not an exact quote.

139 128 Even $100 billion was chickenshit.

They were essentially arguing over rounding errors because the Dems failed to pass a budget last year despite the requirements of the '74 Budget Act. So a majority of the money for this fiscal year has either been spent or allocated and waiting until it was closer to September 30th would have meant no cuts.

140 In my heart, I didn't expect anything more than what Boehner got.  Because I knew, at this stage of the game, that the R's would only push so hard.  I'm disappointed that it is the way it is.  The '12 budget will be the final straw.  It's truly going to be a make or break with what the R's are made of.  I'm hopeful...but not very optimistic. 

Of course, President Vacays-a-lot is "hailing" the agreement and extolling the virtues of a government that is living within its means.  Too bad for Barky that the commentors on this article are literally eviscerating him.  As in leaving not a scrap of meat on his scrawny bones.  He's fooling no one. 

141 The cuts we need are impossible period. Collapse is inevitable, it's just a question of time. Posted by: Heorot at April 09, 2011 10:28 AM (pcjzp) I agree, but the cuts could change the collapse from a 100 mph collision to a 50 mph collision. If so, the recovery will be faster and the outcome better.

142 The 1 trillion dollar question is would a government shutdown have eventually generated the cuts that we do need (which are politically unfeasible)?

Quick answer is no, so all the fury about this supposed "betrayal" is misplaced.

143 Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 09, 2011 10:30 AM (dT+/n)

So the republicans are going to regulate the internet and that's ok, cause they are the republicans?  Are you seriously labeling me a troll cause I've been researching an issue that I thought everyone could come together on this in a bi partisan non threatening way.

144 No, it's a wake up call for you guys.  You need to educate yourself on this stuff now cause they are quietly voting on it now.  I'm an independent.  I can see both sides and right now, they are both wrong and they aren't educating themselves.  The republicans, could actually win a lot of young hearts and minds on this issue if one of them were to take it up like Paul Ryan took up the budget.  The dems are right on this, the republicans should join them.  The FCC should be out of it completely, everything they've touched has turned to shit.

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:25 AM (k1rwm)

This should be interesting.  Maybe you could summarize the issues at play in Net Neutrality.

145 If it's any consolation, the Dems are just as crestfallen because now they can't leave trash on Boehner's lawn.

146 What's with all the random apostrophes in AoS?

"Man give's wife first..."

"Cop pepper spray's baby squirell [sic]..."

Putting an apostrophe in the possessive "its" is irritating and ubiquitous. But putting apostrophes in plurals and verbs is just freaking random.

147

This is a win for us in that we introduced the concept of reducing government into the national debate. Prior to this, Dims screamed like stuck pigs at the very mention of the notion, remember how they cried when Repubs even dared to cut the rate of increase?

It's not feel like much right now, but it is a start. Boehner sounded like the only grownup, he stayed on message without the bile that came from the leftists. A lot of hot air was removed from their traditional arguments.

So there's that.

Even better is that the Tea Party message has reached the masses. Government is too damned big and is starting to choke off the private sector as the leech of the feds starts to grow larger than the host. We on the right are making an impact, albeit slowly, which is the way long wars are won.

148 So the republicans are going to regulate the internet and that's ok, cause they are the republicans?  Are you seriously labeling me a troll cause I've been researching an issue that I thought everyone could come together on this in a bi partisan non threatening way.

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:35 AM (k1rwm)

The Republicans aren't going to regulate the internet.  Where'd you get your research, Kos?

149 This is a win for us in that we introduced the concept of reducing government into the national debate.

-------------------

Hello?

150 So the republicans are going to regulate the internet and that's ok, cause they are the republicans? Are you seriously labeling me a troll cause I've been researching an issue that I thought everyone could come together on this in a bi partisan non threatening way. Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:35 AM (k1rwm) Yes. I am. Here is a thing we can come together on in a non-threatening way: Leave the Internet alone.

151 Putting an apostrophe in the possessive "its" is irritating and ubiquitous. But putting apostrophes in plurals and verbs is just freaking random.

Fu'ck Y'ou

152

Shit, I need a quick tech tip. Giving away a computer today and someone here told me that if I couldn't "wipe" it, the recipient could buy a relatively cheap new (??? what???) and replace the one in my computer. Hard drive? Some card? What is it?

Thanks in advance, all-knowing morons.

153 If it's any consolation, the Dems are just as crestfallen because now they can't leave trash on Boehner's lawn.

Yeah, but they still have that dead, plucked chicken waiting to be hung on his front porch.

154 Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 10:38 AM (McG46)

did you read the article I posted about the vote?

155 So the republicans are going to regulate the internet and that's ok, cause they are the republicans?  Are you seriously labeling me a troll cause I've been researching an issue that I thought everyone could come together on this in a bi partisan non threatening way.

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:35 AM (k1rwm)

Curious, you have it backwards. The dems want to get the FCC involved to regulate the intertubes not the republicans. The republicans want to leave the internet as it is.

The dems want the FCC to regulate what internet providers can charge for access, bandwidth, what content that have to offer etc.

156 Morning all. 

Last night I had the dreadful task of telling our boy on Skype that a dear friend of his had died in a flaming crash.  He was a fellow Eagle Scout, and was driving a tanker on I-95, and apparently fell asleep behind the wheel in the wee hours of Thursday morning.  A husband and wife trucker team in front of him actually helped to ease his truck off the interstate, only to watch as his truck burst into flames and he was trapped.  We received the e-mail from friends while we were on layover on our way home from Vegas.  My husband nearly started crying, and I certainly did.

The young man accompanied our son and another Boy Scout and several Girl Scouts and their leaders to Russia a few years ago.  He was a big, gentle giant, and truly one of the nicest young men I've ever known.

Prayers for his family and friends, please.

157 This is a war and there will be many battles and last night we won a skirmish.  It wasn't decisive, but it showed that we are at least willing to fight some.  It made little sense to shutdown the government over a few billion, when next few weeks the House is going to pass the Paul Ryan Budget bill.  This gives us the high ground in the fight, but they still have air superiority and troop strengthen.  We have to keep pushing forward to gain ground, with no chance of victory until 2013.  We have to keep fight nonetheless and hope to win the Senate in a big way in 2012.  Until then we are going to fight hard for minimal gains, but we need to stay in the fight or why did we bother in 2010.  Check out the blog if you want to read the long version of this rant.

158 Apostrophe, the Ancient Greek Goddess, Sister of Irony, laugh's at mortal's and their silly notion's.

159 did you read the article I posted about the vote?

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:41 AM (k1rwm)

Yeah.  Which part did you believe? 

Sorry, I still can't get over the fact that you think the Republicans want to regulate it and the Democrats don't.  Even your article admits that, as it has to.

160 Prayers for their and your family.  I-95 is a very tough road to drive and not get sleepy.

161 hey e-man, while I can appreciate the Japanese babe rescue team thing, I have been having serious thoughts about seeing if there's a way to maybe put up a couple of homeless Japanese (don't need to be babes) at my place.  It's an old dump that I'm not done fixing up but it's got a new roof, and the necessary amenities and appliances.  I can't pay to get 'em here but I can feed 'em.  Any idea who to contact?

162 Posted by: Lincolntf at April 09, 2011 10:39 AM (xMT+4)

replace the hard drive.

163 Prayers for his family and friends, please. Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 09, 2011 10:42 AM (UOM4 Damn. Just damn. My condolences.

164 H.J.Res.37-- "Disapproving the rule submitted by the Federal Communications Commission with respect to regulating the Internet and broadband industry practices"

240-179

165 161 Prayers for their and your family.  I-95 is a very tough road to drive and not get sleepy.

Posted by: Sandy Salt at April 09, 2011 10:44 AM (iGZkF)

Thanks. 

166 Thanks. He's here now. Perfect timing.

167 These measly cuts today will save hundreds of billions down the road.

168 Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 10:44 AM (McG46)

You need one law, supported by both parties, saying you can't favor content.  It's not a party issue, it's an American freedom issue. 

169 Prayers for his family and friends, please.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at April 09, 2011 10:42 AM ( UOM48 )


My condolences. Prayers for his family and friends. May God comfort them.

170   I'll hold my fire completely until we see the details, not just the political talking points. But my initial impression this was old-style politics carve-up where everyone walked away with something. That is except the American people, who get cuts roughly equal to about what our government spends in one day. That's a victory? I don't know, for some reason it doesn't smell like it.

Two things really worry me. First Boehner's willingness to strike a political deal. That presages a future of more deals. Why? Because in the end Boehner sees this as political, not principled. That should really worry Republicans given the stakes. Second, the fact Republicans were willing to let the President claim victory for the deal and making "the largest cuts in history". Make no mistake, that is a political calculation on Boehner's part and one he his going to lose, especially since apparently he sucks at math. The most depressing part? In the end this makes Ryan's plan look like a strawman for Boehner's weak, politically oriented negotiating.

I fully expected a Lexington and Concord moment to commence the new war on spending. Instead we got the Anglo-Zanzibar war.

171 If you're looking to import Japanese people to liv in your house, why wouldn't you want them to be babes?

172 Um just a guess, try the Red Cross. Try the US Embassy. Try a local college or University that has professional/personal contacts in Japan. Do not post an ad anywhere.

173 You need one law, supported by both parties, saying you can't favor content.  It's not a party issue, it's an American freedom issue. 

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:48 AM (k1rwm)

Wait.  I thought you were against regulating the Internet.  And who the hell is to say you can't favor content?  The government doesn't own the internet.  The internet is not public property. 

What do you think "favoring content" means?

174 Hi Jane, so sorry for the loss.  Can't say the prayers though.  The big guy would just say no.  I can't even thank him for, and ask him to bless the good people in my life cause He'll just take 'em away from me or rain fire and brimstone down on 'em.

175 Although saddened by the fact we didn't get more cuts out of the agreement, I am relieved that we got something. Lost in all this is how the dems, despite having control of both houses and the presidency, had no budget to begin with. Had they passed a budget, who knows how much more debt and spending we would have now. We were at least able to have input on a budget that  should  have been passed  long before the sweep in 2010 so any cut is better than what could have been.

The next budget and the debt ceiling will be the real war and they had better hold firm then.

176 You need one law, supported by both parties, saying you can't favor content. It's not a party issue, it's an American freedom issue. Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:48 AM (k1rwm) You need no law. Let the Internet police itself.

177 Marcus,  what do you think the democrats got?  Other than a partial victory on NPR and Planned Parenthood,  I don't see anything else they won,  and a whole lot of stuff they lost.

Alan West on Fox:  "It takes 5 miles to turn an aircraft carrier.  We are heading in the right direction."

178 You need one law, supported by both parties, saying you can't favor content.  It's not a party issue, it's an American freedom issue. 

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 10:48 AM (k1rwm)

As a private internet user I kind of agree with you and the dems on that. Mainly because internet providers are a monopoly in many areas. As a capitalist I disagree with you, the dems and myself.

The problem I see is that someone like Comcast could restrict Netflicks because it uses to much band width and because it's in direct competition with them.

I don't know how to get around that.

179  why wouldn't you want them to be babes?

Posted by: Truman North

they stay up half the night crying, and have you seen how much formula is these days .

180 Jane,  prayers for your young friend and his family.

And teej,  you sound a little lost,  so I will say prayers for you as well.

181 Not saying I'd turn 'em down Truman.  Esp. if one of 'em is good at walking on my back. 'wink'

182 Please read.

183 they stay up half the night crying, and have you seen how much formula is these days . Posted by: willow at April 09, 2011 10:52 AM (h+qn I think some clarity is called for here.

184 curious:

"Net Neutrality" is out there to help people like Netflix, not Ace.

185 I agree, but the cuts could change the collapse from a 100 mph collision to a 50 mph collision.

At this level of cuts it's more like 98 mph. This is an existential threat not just to the economy but to our method of government.

186 prayers for the family .

187 I think some clarity is called for here.

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team

giggle.

188 At this level of cuts it's more like 98 mph. This is an existential threat not just to the economy but to our method of government. Posted by: Heorot at April 09, 2011 10:55 AM (pcjzp) I wasn't talking about yesterday's cuts, I was talking about the Ryan's Plan +.

189 thanks e-man. good ideas. happened to think of the red cross this am.

More than a little Miss M.  But I'm 56 and there's a LOT of history going back 40 years behind it. 

Love all,  gonna hit the lake for an hour or so and then spend 3 hours pushing a mower around my yard.  Stay firm patriots.

190

The problem I see is that someone like Comcast could restrict Netflicks because it uses to much band width and because it's in direct competition with them.

I don't know how to get around that.

Posted by: robtr at April 09, 2011 10:52 AM (MtwBb)

They can build their own network.  They can switch providers. 

Don't use your competitor's hardware.  Invest in your own infrastructure.

Here's what don't do: pass a damned law.

Does anyone really think businesses will be more capricious than government in setting conditions for competitors?

191 185 curious:

"Net Neutrality" is out there to help people like Netflix, not Ace.

Posted by: Ed Anger at April 09, 2011 10:55 AM (7+pP9)

no, they are in the same boat on this.  They are both two "little guys" versus the big guys (comcast, optimum, etc.)  Yes, one is a corporation and one is a blogger but they both content providers. 

192 Thanks for the thoughts and prayers, guys.  Like everyone else, I've been so caught up and anxious (and angry) over the crap going on in DC, and the possibility of the military not being paid, plus being on a convention floor for two days, plus the "joy" of flying and dealing with TSA goons.....now I'm tired, angry, and grief-stricken.  And seeing my boy nearly burst into tears last night on Skype killed me.

193 Neil Cavuto is one ugly little piggie without his glasses!

194 171 Boehner had to strike a deal eventually because having a budget is a requirement under law, as Congress agreed to in 1974. To have neglected passing a budget for this fiscal year-- especially in light of our rightful criticism of the Dems in that respect-- would have been hypocrisy of the highest order.

I also think Majority Whip McCarthy deserves more blame here than any other member of the leadership. He wrote The Pledge while making assumptions about a Republican wave and a whole host of other things without making his points 100% clear or thinking about what would happen if they failed to capture the Senate. So while he's a great recruiter, he has caused a great deal of trouble.

195 Jane D'oh, prayers said for your friend's family and your boy. My condolences.

196

no, they are in the same boat on this.  They are both two "little guys" versus the big guys (comcast, optimum, etc.)  Yes, one is a corporation and one is a blogger but they both content providers. 

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:00 AM (k1rwm)

So you're in favor of telling Comcast what Comcast can do with Comcast's stuff.  How in the world is that anywhere close to fair?

197 The lesson here is that demagoguery works. The Republicans are shrinking violets when the Democrats start hurling absurd accusations and insults at them.

198

Don't use your competitor's hardware.  Invest in your own infrastructure.

Here's what don't do: pass a damned law.

Does anyone really think businesses will be more capricious than government in setting conditions for competitors?

Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 10:59 AM (McG46)

Yeah they could do all that stuff and so could google and hulu etc. etc.

How many internet providers would we the user need to be signed up to and paying for though compared to now?

4 or 5? 6 or 7? How many places would netflix service if they did that? Probably just the high population areas.

Like I said there is no easy answer.

199 Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 11:02 AM (McG46)

If someone has to lose I'd rather have the monolithic ted turner corporation lose than ace.

200 We had nothing to lose from a shutdown, and we had so much potential for political gain. Not to mention saving the republic.

201 So, are King Barry, Queen Moochelle and the kiddies off to Colonial Williamsburg on our dime today?

202 How is this possible with a utopian state with strict gun control, and happy Europeans who love their government?

6 killed, 11 wounded in Dutch mall shooting

203 Prayers and thoughts to the family, Mrs. D'oh.

204 We had nothing to lose from a shutdown, and we had so much potential for political gain. Not to mention saving the republic. Posted by: Soothsayer Maximus at April 09, 2011 11:05 AM (L0wbB) A shutdown would make the Senate and Ebola follow the House? How would it do that?

205 I wasn't talking about yesterday's cuts, I was talking about the Ryan's Plan +.

We'll see, but I doubt that'll pass in anything like it's current form. I don't believe they're going to hit the brakes until they can't see the bottom of the wall over the hood. And they're driving a cab-over.

206 O/T - Dumbass Schumer shown on Fox calling the Tea Party Repub a flea on the tail (Repubs) wagging the dog (government).  I'd rather be the independent flea than the asshole of the dog Chucky.

207 Netflix is a "little guy"?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

208 If someone has to lose I'd rather have the monolithic ted turner corporation lose than ace.

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:04 AM (k1rwm)

The loser is freedom.  The loser is private property rights.  The winner is bigger goverment.  More government control over our lives.

Yeah they could do all that stuff and so could google and hulu etc. etc.

How many internet providers would we the user need to be signed up to and paying for though compared to now?

4 or 5? 6 or 7? How many places would netflix service if they did that? Probably just the high population areas.

Like I said there is no easy answer.

Posted by: robtr at April 09, 2011 11:04 AM (MtwBb)

Hey, I have a great idea - an easy answer.  Let's let the market sort it out.  The market has a way of doing that.  What makes you think the plan concocted by San Fran Nan et al. would be better?

Have you noticed any degradation in service so far?  How many ISPs are you signed up with?

209 We'll see, but I doubt that'll pass in anything like it's current form. I don't believe they're going to hit the brakes until they can't see the bottom of the wall over the hood. And they're driving a cab-over. Posted by: Heorot at April 09, 2011 11:08 AM (pcjzp) Not a poor bet at all. We shall see.

210 it's all relative.  but in this issue they are content and ace is content.

Look, I've been on this blog a long time now.  You know how I think.  I'm saying that this is a good issue for the republicans to look into, not "the republicans" but the budgeteers, they should look into it.  they should not accept some of the stuff they are being told by the lobbyists.  If a law could be passed that simply says "leave the internet alone", it's a win for everyone on both sides and bodes well for the budgeteers.

211 178 Marcus,  what do you think the democrats got?  Other than a partial victory on NPR and Planned Parenthood,  I don't see anything else they won,  and a whole lot of stuff they lost.

Alan West on Fox:  "It takes 5 miles to turn an aircraft carrier.  We are heading in the right direction."
Posted by: Miss Marple

I want to see the full details of what is included before passing complete judgment. But let's start with the fact we were the only party seeking reductions. Democrats have now corrupted that message to say they want reasonable cuts not extreme cuts. They have changed the conversation and given the President the upper-hand- but hopefully only for the moment.

I am worried about getting to a level (a la The Ryan Plan) which truly differentiates Republicans, but more importantly puts the country on a sustainable fiscal trajectory. I don't think Boehner has the same interest. He truly believes he can inch his way in over time and in concert appease the "Tea Party" types with lots of "aw shucks, we tried" blather (while actually trying to divide-and-conquer them). That approach simply lacks merit and is based on a status quo mentality. That stale worldview surmises our economy will improve and ultimately all will be wine and roses with some minor fiscal tinkering. That is foolish, outdated thinking which lack seriousness or conviction.

212 Okay, which one of you morons lives in NZ?

213 If a law could be passed that simply says "leave the internet alone", it's a win for everyone on both sides and bodes well for the budgeteers. Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:12 AM (k1rwm) The internet is already being left alone.

214 Dumbass Schumer shown on Fox calling the Tea Party Repub a flea on the tail (Repubs) wagging the dog (government).  I'd rather be the independent flea than the asshole of the dog Chucky.

Posted by: dogfish at April 09, 2011 11:08 AM (N2yhW)

I kept waiting for the Tea Party guy to say Chucky Cheesedk was a peanut in a Democrat turd.

But, Charles Paine agrees with me. Both sides claim victory and the American people lose.

Folks, the mount of the cut on this CR is immaterial. The fact that the Repubs folded like a cheap suit is the big deal. Mark my words now. If they folded on this they will fold on the 2012 budget.

If they do that then say goodbye to the Republican Party and say hello to 4 more years of Obama. There will be a third Party candidate from the Tea Party in 2012.

215

The Williamsburg trip has been cancelled.  The sound of wailing douches (douching wailers?) at the William and Mary campus must be deafening. 

Re:  the Dutch massacre, I wonder if Ladbrokes takes odds on  mass shootings -- like 5 to 4 odds that the next mass shooting will be committed by a Mohammedan. 

216 I'm sure someone above has expressed this sentiment but I have to say, I was promised $100B in cuts, which isn't even a start on the deficit, and I'm offered 40.

Fail.

217 214 If a law could be passed that simply says "leave the internet alone", it's a win for everyone on both sides and bodes well for the budgeteers.

Curious, the best way to "leave the internet alone" is for Congress to leave the internet alone - no law is required.

218 The internet is already being left alone.

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 09, 2011 11:13 AM (dT+/n)

No, it isn't. The FCC is trying to impose net neutrality rules even though both Congress and the Supreme Court have told them that they have no such authority.

219 Ezra Klein on Twitter last night:

"At $39b the cuts will be $7b larger than boehner initially proposed. Huge victory for house conservatives. And a big loss for the economy."

"Estimates of 2011 job losses from $60b in cuts ran from 200,000 to 700,000. $39b in cuts would mean about 120,000 to 450,000 jobs lost."

Where the hell do liberal journ-o-lists get this ridiculous information?  Cutting $39 billion from our trillion-plus dollar deficit hurts the economy?

God, it makes my head hurt to read these guys.

220 212 178 ...I want to see the full details of what is included before passing complete judgment.

Skip to "Guarantees Senate Vote" and work down from there.

221 Curious, the best way to "leave the internet alone" is for Congress to leave the internet alone - no law is required. Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at April 09, 2011 11:15 AM (GyWJb) If any law is needed, it is one that abolishes the FCC.

222 If a law could be passed that simply says "leave the internet alone", it's a win for everyone on both sides and bodes well for the budgeteers.

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:12 AM (k1rwm)

Why would you need to pass a law to leave it alone?  It's already being left alone.  "Leaving the internet alone" is not what Net Neutrality does.  Net Neutrality does the opposite.

223 Look, in the midst of the budget tornado, they saw fit to pass a bill on net neutrality.  They want to remove the one safeguard to net neutrality and they haven't replaced it with a law that says "leave the net alone".   Makes you wonder how many trips to the Bahamas are being enjoyed?

I'm saying it would be wise to look at this now, not when it is the hysterical issue it will become.

224

Hey, I have a great idea - an easy answer.  Let's let the market sort it out.  The market has a way of doing that.  What makes you think the plan concocted by San Fran Nan et al. would be better?

Have you noticed any degradation in service so far?  How many ISPs are you signed up with?

Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 11:09 AM (McG46)

I would normally agree with you except in this case some of the providers are monopolies. There are a bunch of areas that only have one provider and they aren't going to get another one because there aren't enough people.

There isn't a problem now but Comcast is talking about blocking access to high bandwith and sites that compete with their cable tv operation.

Maybe it can be fixed through the existing antitrust laws or maybe we can just start allowing monopolies in the US and let them do whatever they want.

If comcast wants to control what you get access to and they are the only ones in town then live with it.

225 No, it isn't. The FCC is trying to impose net neutrality rules even though both Congress and the Supreme Court have told them that they have no such authority. Posted by: somebody else, not me at April 09, 2011 11:16 AM (7EV/g) Yes, I was unclear. Republicans in Congress are trying to protect internet freedom from the FCC.

226 Union violence explodes in Washington state

227

Why would you need to pass a law to leave it alone?  It's already being left alone.  "Leaving the internet alone" is not what Net Neutrality does.  Net Neutrality does the opposite.

Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 11:18 AM (McG46)

oh come on, at least back your argument up with facts.  Please you are an intelligent poster, please back it up with fact cause what you are saying is just plain wrong.

228 220 Where the hell do liberal journ-o-lists get this ridiculous information?  Cutting $39 billion from our trillion-plus dollar deficit hurts the economy?

God, it makes my head hurt to read these guys.

He's now crying in his beer. It was fun to see their reactions last night, how they were bashing Reid and complaining they didn't get anything.

229

In a sane world opposing any cuts and jacking up spending over the last two years would actually hurt the Democrats.  Not to mention constantly inventing campfire scare stories to hang on the Republicans.

Not sane.  Very not sane.   

230 Yes, I was unclear. Republicans in Congress are trying to protect internet freedom from the FCC.

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 09, 2011 11:19 AM (dT+/n)

Yes and I agree with that, however, they are going to keep trying to do this so a simple law saying "leave the internet as it is" would go a long way to letting us keep our internet instead of having it turn it obamacare.

231 Look, in the midst of the budget tornado, they saw fit to pass a bill on net neutrality.  They want to remove the one safeguard to net neutrality and they haven't replaced it with a law that says "leave the net alone".   Makes you wonder how many trips to the Bahamas are being enjoyed?

You have your facts completely backward.  There is not and has never been a safeguard to net neutrality.  They didn't remove a law, they prevented one from being passed.  So nothing to replace. 

A law that says "leave the net alone" - who is the law talking to?  Who should leave the net alone?  The people who own it?

Please get your facts straight before you go starting conspiracy theories.

232 curious, do you understand that the term "Net Neutrality" is a euphemism? Folks pushing it want to impose government control over the internet in the name of "fairness".

233 oh come on, at least back your argument up with facts.  Please you are an intelligent poster, please back it up with fact cause what you are saying is just plain wrong.

Net Neutrality is Orwellian speak, what it actually does is open the door for government control of the net through regulation, it's not neutral at all, it's a government takeover.

234 Please get your facts straight before you go starting conspiracy theories.

Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 11:23 AM (McG46)

It's not conspiracy theory.  do you want your legislation written in the courts, cause that is what is coming on this issue or do you want the republicans to take control and insure that the net remains as it is, no content is favored over another content?

I see you have another agenda.  This is not a partisan issue and I am not a conspiracy theorist.  But you have an agenda.

235 Yes and I agree with that, however, they are going to keep trying to do this so a simple law saying "leave the internet as it is" would go a long way to letting us keep our internet instead of having it turn it obamacare. Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:22 AM (k1rwm) And this is exactly what the Republicans have done. They have disapprove the actions taken by the FCC.

236

With all due respect to those who think the Republicans and Boehner got "rolled" last night, think about where we were twelve months ago, even six months ago.  The direction of the argument is changing, and the next fight will be tougher.

And this is appropriate:

_{Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning. Winston Churchill}

237 230 Allen West is a no vote.

He voted "aye" last night  but will vote "nay" mid-week. If Majority Whip McCarthy doesn't have all his bases covered, he might end-up shy of 218.

238 227 Union violence explodes in Washington state Posted by: Truman North at April 09, 2011 11:19 AM

"Mostly Peaceful" we'll be assured by the MBM

Surprise, surprise, they were the Purple People Beaters of the SEIU.

The SEIU is such a wonderful union that last year, they were kicked out by their own rank and file at the UCLA Medical Center, as the union membership was sick of paying dues and getting no help or even any response to their problems from the hacks

239

It's not conspiracy theory.  do you want your legislation written in the courts, cause that is what is coming on this issue or do you want the republicans to take control and insure that the net remains as it is, no content is favored over another content?

I see you have another agenda.  This is not a partisan issue and I am not a conspiracy theorist.  But you have an agenda.

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:25 AM (k1rwm)

Me and everyone else here is either too stupid to understand or is dishonest and has an agenda.

See all these people telling you you have it exactly backward?  We're aaaaalllll wrong and you're right.

240 If the republicans don't take up the issue you are leaving it to the dems. 

Better to have your side handling the issue than the other.  Yes, it absolutely does not belong with the FCC and that was a good thing, but, it will be fought in the courts in the absence of a law and that may not be a good thing.

That's the point here.  The republicans need to do a pre emptive strike.  Most young people would be really thrilled with young republicans touting that net content should not be controlled and that you should be free to go to whatever site you choose.

241 curious, do you understand that the FCC is part of the Executive Branch and has proposed regulations to impose "Net Neutrality" on the Internet and that the GOP House has reversed the FCC action?

242 What does the Budget Committee have to do with net neutrality? The issue would most likely be covered by Oversight & Govt Reform.

243 FUBAR, what is wrong with using an issue to draw young people to a second look at what you believe?

244 >>no, they are in the same boat on this. They are both two "little guys" versus the big guys (comcast, optimum, etc.) Yes, one is a corporation and one is a blogger but they both content providers. You really, really, really don't understand net neutrality and the affect it would have on the internet. Think of it like Obamacare for the internet, all pigs would be equal. Net affect, the service would be worse for all and cost more. Further, it would be the gov't deciding on content and service levels. It is a horrible idea. It needs to die a violent death.

245 nice, CJ Burch

246 That's the point here. The republicans need to do a pre emptive strike. Most young people would be really thrilled with young republicans touting that net content should not be controlled and that you should be free to go to whatever site you choose. Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:29 AM (k1rwm) Oh, I see. You want a law that preempts any new acts by the FCC or any other regulator to impose "Net Neutrality". Is that right? How about we abolish the FCC and just rely on the First Amendment?

247 212  Marcus,  I think it's time that people look at what Boehner does,  not what people THINK he will do.

I,  myself,  think Boehner is far more conservative than a lot of people think.  He is definitely pro-life,  and has done the best he can with only the House as his weapon.

The way everyone here turns on leadership over the slightest transgression,  iti's a wonder they listen to conservatives on anything.   One thing the democrats do is back their leaders,   even when they are terrible.  Consequently they do not fill myTV screen with democrats trashing Obama and Reid,  thus making it possible for them to operate.

Our side goes after people all of the time,  for a variety of reasons, and instead of being simple disagreement,  people like Boehner are immediately portrayed as enemies.  This is not productive.  I don't like it one bit.  It is one of the reasons W was weakened and couldn't accomplish a lot of things.  

I repeat Reagan's words: " You take what you can get and then go back for more."

248 How about we abolish the FCC and just rely on the First Amendment?

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 09, 2011 11:33 AM (dT+/n)

From my perspective, that would be a good thing but why leave it to chance?

249 I saw the second episode of "Chaos"last night. One line, CIA Field Agent to CIA bureaucrat:  "You don't really think like a totalitarian lackey.  They can't connect the dots;  if they could, they would connect the dots between starvation and Dear Leader"

250 All you need to know about Net Neutrality is that it will create a giant new group of lobbyists.

Winners:
Politicians (especially Dems)
Large Media/Tech Companies
Lawyers in Washinton

Losers:
You
Me

251 So Rep. James Lankford (R-OK) from Budget says that the entirety of the House kept the pressure on the R negotiators to make sure they got real cuts instead of book-keeping ones. I've had my issues with the conference sometimes being weak but they did a good job here. Now if they only could have been more serious about allowing '06 spending levels and stronger entitlement reforms...

252 From my perspective, that would be a good thing but why leave it to chance? Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:34 AM (k1rwm) Laws that say "Follow the First Amendment. We really mean it" are a bit silly.

253 I'm coming for your wallet but first

http://tinyurl.com/234oee8

254 The Obama narrative is on like donkey-kong.

Big win for bipartisanship!

Shades of the 2008 campaign.  The One Who Will Bring Us Together!

Now just watch and listen to everyone climbing aboard the train.

255 Laws that say "Follow the First Amendment. We really mean it" are a bit silly.

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 09, 2011 11:37 AM (dT+/n)

And that's not what Net Neutrality does anyway. 

This isn't "little guy" vs. "big guy", it's "property owner" vs. "person who wants to tell the property owner what to do with his property.

256 Posted by: Johnny at April 09, 2011 11:36 AM (mhmc7)

ok so how is that any different from all the lobbyists out there favoring no protection whatsoever for the little blogger.

You want to make this a partisan issue.  It doesn't have to be and it shouldn't be..it's common sense.

257

Now just watch and listen to everyone climbing aboard the train.

Hey, the American people are smart enough to--to pfftsmbwaahahahahha I'm sorry I can't even say it.

 

258 I repeat Reagan's words: " You take what you can get and then go back for more."

IMO, we could have gotten more.  It's not like the promised $100B was gutting the beast.

259 ok so how is that any different from all the lobbyists out there favoring no protection whatsoever for the little blogger.

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:41 AM (k1rwm)

Protection from what?

260 Well I think we knew we were not going to reclaim the GOP from liberal lite to conservative in just one election cycle. Unfortunately it feels like we do not have much time at all but are we going to just shrug, let the leeches have their way, and expect that we would get new founding fathers rather than a dictator after inevitable collapse? We have some exciting new conservatives in the state governments and we made strides at the federal level. We have to double down on getting real conservatives like Lee instead of squishy Bennetts in states like Utah. I don't think we can afford to split votes in 2012 and let jugears have 4 more years to wreak chaos. Lets just continue the take back of the GOP. The marxists didn't snatch the DNC in just one cycle, they've been infiltrating for decades.

261 curious, work on your clarity skills. "Net Neutrality" is a lie. The new trend is fewer laws, not more. Trust in the Constitution. When regulators go too far Congress simply needs to reverse what they did and mail them a copy of the Constitution, a note saying FYNQ, and a picture of a honey badger.

262 221 212 178 ...I want to see the full details of what is included before passing complete judgment.

Skip to "Guarantees Senate Vote" and work down from there.
 
Thanks.

Look, considering we only run the House this can be placed in the column of a small victory in the right direction. But I will wait for the debt ceiling, discretionary spending  and ultimately the 2012 budget to see just how serious, or competent and principled for that matter, Boehner is.

BTW, I read some reaction from liberals today. By some of the reaction, which is largely, vocally negative- you can start to feel a little better about this current deal. There is no significant propaganda reason for this outcry, so I would say it is mostly genuine.

263 Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:41 AM (k1rwm)

I don't understand your position at all.  Are you in favor of Net Neutrality?

264 Posted by: FUBAR at April 09, 2011 11:39 AM (McG46)

that is a very odd way to explain it.  At it's base, it not free to begin with.  Certain companies have a monopoly on the wires.  And that is regulated by the FCC because otherwise there would be no way to create competition.  do you want to be paying $500 a month for your internet service provider?  Do you want your neighbors not to be able to afford the internet.  You need to really think this out.  You are a very huge thinker here, you are very very smart.  I was so thrilled that you responded to me.  thank you and please keep reading.

265 The sole principle of Net Neutrality is that you don't favor one content provider over another which promotes competition.  Without a level playing field, there cannot be competition. 

266 "Wow, the markets have created some really big players in the Internet. That's not fair. We should do something about that." Jeebus!

267 It is an open thread right??

K, well this isn't something you read every day.

Goose knocks cop into a window.

Although from personal experience I have to say, these are nasty little shitheads.

268 The sole principle of Net Neutrality is that you don't favor one content provider over another which promotes competition. Without a level playing field, there cannot be competition. Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:49 AM (k1rwm) Yep, you have no clue or you are a troll.

269

If the government is claiming it will enforce "fairness" "neutrality" or "equality" it means someone is going to get screwed. 

270 Yep, you have no clue or you are a troll.

Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 09, 2011 11:50 AM (dT+/n)

You didn't respond with facts, you behaved like a democrat and accused me of being a troll, which everyone on here knows that I'm not and you insulted me, just like the dems you hate.

271 After seeing what the Feds demanded of Comcast, just to allow them to buy NBC in a voluntary  business deal, even considering allowing them to meddle with further with the internet is madness.

272 264 221 212 178 ...BTW, I read some reaction from liberals today. By some of the reaction, which is largely, vocally negative- you can start to feel a little better about this current deal. There is no significant propaganda reason for this outcry, so I would say it is mostly genuine.

They were angry last night and still angry this morning. Reid also looked and sounded rather diminished last night. He also tried to claim credit but it was really rather hollow. The MFM was hoping he'd stand-strong on his ridiculously low numbers and other issues, so his concessions are now documented. That's the price you pay for counting your chickens before they're hatched.

But Boehner shouldn't count on anything either. He has enough "Blue Dogs" to pass a final, but he really needs 218 votes from his side and he was 10 short last night, IIRC.

273

Take heart, people. When you only have 1/2 of Congress you don't get everything you want.

On the bright side, if Karl Rove was right, King Barry was sitting back in his office with his fingers crossed, looking to benefit from a shutdown the way Clinton had. And Barry seemed pretty disinterested in really making anything happen, so I suspect Rove was right, dispite the outcome.

274 You didn't respond with facts, you behaved like a democrat and accused me of being a troll, which everyone on here knows that I'm not and you insulted me, just like the dems you hate. Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:52 AM (k1rwm) You insulted yourself. "level playing field" is a Liberal meme.

275 that is a very odd way to explain it.  At it's base, it not free to begin with.  Certain companies have a monopoly on the wires.  And that is regulated by the FCC because otherwise there would be no way to create competition.  do you want to be paying $500 a month for your internet service provider?  Do you want your neighbors not to be able to afford the internet.  You need to really think this out.  You are a very huge thinker here, you are very very smart.  I was so thrilled that you responded to me.  thank you and please keep reading.

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:47 AM (k1rwm)

You do realize those companies have a monopoly on the wires because they bought, installed, set up, maintain, and service the wires, right?  In other words, they own the wires.

And you're completely wrong about the FCC regulating it.  And wrong about creating competition.  The FCC doesn't regulate it at all.  That's the point.  The Net Neutrality people want to get the FCC and gummint involved.

I wouldn't pay $500 a month to an internet service provider, and none would charge that, depending on the service.  I don't care if  my neighbors can afford the internet.  But they can.  All without gummint.  I want to keep gummint out of the internet.

Flattery will get you anywhere.

276

If Eleanor Holmes Norton is unhappy, then I like it (from Drudge link from WaPo on DC not providing funding for abortions):

Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.) wrote a letter to President Obama last month expressing her fear that the District rider would be used as “a bargaining chip” and warning: “If any D.C. riders are included in the CR, that acquiescence by Democrats will make it nearly impossible to argue that they should be kept out of the fiscal year 2012 and fiscal year 2013 spending bills.”

277 curious,  competition doesn't depend on a level playing field.  That is leftist thinking.

Big corporations give price breaks on stuff (think Wal Mart).  Small companies compete with service,  unusual items, convenience,  etc. ( my local hardware store). Sometimes little companies are so good at this that they become big corporations (Netflix).  Sometimes big corporations are slow to respond and  fail (Blockbuster).

There is a constantly shifting advantage to different players.  This is called "the market"  in which consumers decide on price vs. convenience or other parameters.  A level playing field is not required,  unless you are thinking that every time someone gets too big they should be smacked down by the government.

278 Anybody ever see this Seraphim Falls? Worth watching all the way through?

279

Although from personal experience I have to say, these are nasty little shitheads.

Goose attacks are easliy thwarted using the 'swinging hammer-toss' method :

-Grab the offending Goose, firmly, just below the head.  

-Start your rotation as gently as possible using the momentum of your turn to lift the Goose rather than brute strength.  

- Once the Goose is airborne, you will need no less than a full turn develop enough inertia to launch the Goose towards your chosen target.

- Relax your shoulders prior to release, andfocus on your release point.  Remembering to account for drift.

-Continue your rotation through release and remember to follow through.

 

280

^{Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:52 AM (k1rwm)}

Curious, have you been to 'Yama' (Sushi ) at Irving Plaza? 

 

281 Since the subject of net neutrality was voted on yesterday in the cover of the budget "crisis", to me that is a red flag that the issue is important enough to try and not let us find it.  I'm wondering how many other issues there are like that one.  I'm simply saying that Ace and all of you should look into the issue, read the papers on it, look at the cases, cause you will then be prepared to deal with it cause they aren't going to stop bringing it up and you, the republicans, want to be able to work with the dems on this to show the young people that you aren't a bunch of clueless old white guys.  Why don't you understand me on this?

282 280 "Anybody ever see this Seraphim Falls? Worth watching all the way through?"

It's one of the strangest "westerns" I've ever seen -- a revenge movie.  Worth watching.

283 I find it difficult to form an opinion about net neutrality. Other than the fact that the libtards want it which sends up the red flags. I have tried to find a good source to describe exactly what it is. All I find is Libs bashing big corperations for controlling the world of information or conservatives scared shitless we will lose or web and radio rights. Whats a good source for non objective info about what this really is?

284 274: Well I don't understand politics too well but maybe if the 'tea party' conservatives play bad cop and force Boehner to go back and demand more cuts it could be a good thing. BTW why does he need 218 R votes? rather than 218 total?

285 The 1/2 that controls the purse strings. Not a penny of errant spending should be able to get by when one has control of the House. Posted by: iknowtheleft at April 09, 2011 11:57 AM (G/MYk) No only the House can initiate spending bills, but both Houses must agree on the final bill.

286 Goose attacks are easliy thwarted using the 'swinging hammer-toss' method an umbrella. Open and shut it a few times and they scurry off.

287 curious, I think ace has covered the net neutrality madness. It was a while back, but I'm pretty sure that the consensus was that government interference in the internet needs to be kept to a minimum.

288 @269  Goose knocks cop into window.

The male companion to this female Canada goose reportedly attacked a Cincinnati police lieutenant Friday evening in Bond Hill as he approached this female and her single egg on a bicycleGotta hand it to the mother goose, balancing her egg on a bicycle seat and all.  Wow.

289 282 The 1/2 that controls the purse strings.  Not a penny of errant spending should be able to get by when one has control of the House.

"Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law."

290

On the bright side, if Karl Rove was right, King Barry was sitting back in his office with his fingers crossed, looking to benefit from a shutdown the way Clinton had. And Barry seemed pretty disinterested in really making anything happen, so I suspect Rove was right, dispite the outcome.

Posted by: Optimizer at April 09, 2011 11:54 AM (2lTU+)

No doubt.  That is Obama's MO.  He feigns moderation as well as any radical politician in our history.  He really does fool some of the people all of the time. 

Doing nothing about a 1.6 trillion deficit, never mind debt, was their starting position and Obama was comfortable with it.  In a sane world that's a radical position. 

291 Dammit.  Screwed up quotes in post #292. 

292 Why don't you understand me on this? Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:58 AM (k1rwm) You have not learned a thing. Do you want the Government to regulate the Internet?

293

Goose attacks are easliy thwarted using the 'swinging hammer-toss' method an umbrella. Open and shut it a few times and they scurry off.

Okay, Mary Poppins...who the fuck has an umbrela?  ever?

294

282 The 1/2 that controls the purse strings.  Not a penny of errant spending should be able to get by when one has control of the House.

If only it were that simple.

295 Young people will grow up eventually.  I am not wanting to show my "hipness" by sacrificing things just to get a bunch of clueless liberal youngsters to see we aren't all "old white guys."

That is how we end up with travesties like Newt Gingrich on that couch with pelosi.

296 No only the House can initiate spending bills, but both Houses must agree on the final bill.

The point is there's no excuse for initiating any spending beyond revenues. Let the Dems in the Senate try to defend deficit spending.

297 Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:49 AM (k1rwm)

I don't think you completely understand what passing Net Neutrality would do.

Right now we have market forces determining which domains perform fastest.  If you build a great site, you can make money and reinvest it in infrastructure (hardware, server software, content delivery systems, bandwidth, etc).  This allows you to build a successful web business over time.  And since the playing field is essentially even (the fastest possible packet transfer speeds are available to anyone), the web has become a laboratory of innovation.  It's why every few months you see some nobody appear out of nowhere with a wildly successful new web presence.

What Net Neutrality does is regulate which domains are allowed to access the highest packet transfer rates regardless of infrastructure investment.  Those who lobby successfully or can navigate a new ridiculous bureaucracy can achieve the highest packet transfer rates; those who can't are stuck in the slow lane.  When you add on top of that the problem of unelected bureaucrats determining which sites can operate at what rates unilaterally, then you have the inevitability that it will become a swarming cesspool of liberal bias that every government institution eventually does.  Great.  Now we're back to the pre-FoxNews television world but this time on the web.

298 300,Boy I bet Newt has nightmares about plopping his butt down on the coach next to that Pelosi woman. I remember the first time I saw that I said out load, "his political career is over".

299

 There is no greater power in the federal government.

   Nothing beats 'Rock'  'Gavel'.

300 Actually, this forcing a Senate Vote on ObamaCare could be pretty significant. Not to be Mr. Sunshine, or anything, but that alone might well be worth a lot more than $20B. Even arch-liberal MA voted Scott Brown in over that stuff.

301 I remember the first time I saw that I said out load, "his political career is over".

He chose ... unwisely.

302 Why don't you understand me on this?

Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 11:58 AM (k1rwm)

Yeah, we're here to help.   

303

Posted by: jwb7605 at April 09, 2011 11:59 AM (Qxe/p)

Yeah not bad so far. Thanks.

304 The point is there's no excuse for initiating any spending beyond revenues. Let the Dems in the Senate try to defend deficit spending. Posted by: Methos at April 09, 2011 12:05 PM (uqJo6) Except if you do that right now, the Dems win in 2012. Then what?

305 304 Actually it was Mickey who told Kramer that nothing beats rock.

306 Okay, Mary Poppins...who the fuck has an umbrela?  ever?

Me. Every day. We have to keep them at work because the geese are *everywhere*. With their electric green neon poo. It's foul. But from April to November I have an umbrella when I walk out to my car.

307 284 Since the subject of net neutrality was voted on yesterday in the cover of the budget "crisis", to me that is a red flag that the issue is important enough to try and not let us find it.

They weren't sure they were going to pass a stop-gap last night, which was why they had a number of contingency plans. Furthermore, the text of the bill is here:

"Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That Congress disapproves the rule submitted by the Federal Communications Commission relating to the matter

of preserving the open Internet and broadband industry practices (Report and Order FCC 10-201, adopted by the Commission on December 21, 2010), and such rule shall have no force or effect."

I see nothing in the text that indicates conspiracy. Moreover:

Purpose: "Disapproving the rule submitted by the Federal Communications Commission with respect to regulating the Internet and broadband industry practices"

308 Those comments over at speaker.gov sound like the AoS band of hard cores. Do the GOP read those? People don't think it be like it is, but it do.

309

Blogger complains about veritable tsunami of new coverage about white substance found in FL CongressmanÂ’s mail.

ItÂ’s oppressiveÂ… the coverageÂ…  sleepyÂ…

From Bloodthirsty Liberal

310 The GOP MUST get their hands on the Senate in 2012. As long as the Dems own 2/3s of the triumvirate, we're screwed.

I'm trying not to be depressed.

311

 Actually it was Mickey who told Kramer that nothing beats rock.

True that.  

But I forgot his last name and my googlefu doesn't kick in before noon...

312 #287 Because he doesn't trust the House Democrats to shed enough votes in favor. I think the reaction of liberals today should give people some good vibes. They are disgusted with the budget agreement because it is ACTUAL CUTS, it forces a vote on Obamacare in the senate (exposing McCaskill, Nelson, Nelson, Stabenow, Testor and others to voting to defend it yet again). If Boehner has serious balls, he should introduce the Debt Commission's recommendations as-written as a budget reform bill. Force Reid, Obama, and the rest of the Dems to reject their OWN recommendations to prove they have no ideas. Republicans may balk at voting for it because it includes tax increases, but it also takes an even more dramatic stab at social security and medicare than Ryan's plan. Force the Dems to show they don't have any clue what to do, and use that as leverage in your next round of cuts. Boehner didn't blow the GOP load with this one compromise. He opened the door to further cuts. Say he pulls the Obamacare vote off the table per a request from the Senate Blue Dog Democrats up for reelection in trade for their support in attacking the EPA or even budget cuts. Boehner could actually start spinning the BlueDogs against the rest of the Democrats as they are already an endangered species. There is a lot of "little" stuff he won that, if used correctly, will pay off big.

313 5 That makes two of us -- let's have some patience and see what happens.  This wasn't the be all end all, just the beginning.

314 284 curious, I don't think YOU understand the Issue. Net Neutrality =Goverment Regulation. The House voted to slap the FCC for trying it at all. The will of the House as expressed yesterday will be important in the legal fight against Net Neutrality and the house may trim the FCC budget if they keep it up. Think of it this way; Net Neutrality is a solution in search of a problem which does not exist. The Internet is successful because it is free and unregulated. The day the government starts making rules is the day it starts downhill.

315 Me. Every day. We have to keep them at work because the geese are *everywhere*. With their electric green neon poo. It's foul. But from April to November I have an umbrella when I walk out to my car.

That would have to be a damn cheap umbrella because it would be a one-use item and then it would go promptly in the garbage.

_shiver

Just the thought of walking to my car and hearing goose poop striking the umbrella is making me sick to my stomach.

316

You do realize those companies have a monopoly on the wires because they bought, installed, set up, maintain, and service the wires, right?  In other words, they own the wires.

It's all more complicated than that FUBAR and you know it. The companies installed the wires but the bulk of the wires are on government right of ways that they got permission from the government to install.

If you want true capitalism have them go rip the wires out of public property and buy right of ways from millions of property owners (if they can) and then send you the bill.

Monopolies aren't good for anyone, especially when they are government subsidised monopolies.

Like i said, I don't want government regulation but I also don't want one company being my only choice because they knew the right politicians.

I am sticking with there is no easy answer if the providers start regulating what you can access on the internet. There are a bunch of people that only have one choice.

317 317 Abbott.

318 The Debt Ceiling fight will be epic. One way or the other.

319 287 274: Well I don't understand politics too well but maybe if the 'tea party' conservatives play bad cop and force Boehner to go back and demand more cuts it could be a good thing. BTW why does he need 218 R votes? rather than 218 total?

My understanding from a member of the Budget Committee is that they made Boehner drive as hard a bargain as he could get. A majority of RSC-- which was essentially Tea Party before there was a Tea Party-- was happy about it, but a smaller number of others aren't so much. They are fighting between themselves over whether this was more important than starting on 2012 or not. I would also add that the dissenters-- including Rep. Bachmann-- previously stated that they wanted a compromise and certain provisions.

As for Boehner needing 218, he doesn't need them if he has enough cross-over but it weakens his hand considerably if he doesn't get enough votes from his own party. If he doesn't have enough Dems and he doesn't reach 218, then this bill is dead. It's about to be McCarthy vs. several members of RSC.

320 Chip away and fracture the Democrats. That is the only way you will ram through more cuts that Obama is forced to sign. The Democratic coalition is endangered already going into 2012 (they will likely lose about 4-5 seats in the Senate). Wisconsin, Ohio, New Hampshire, Virginia, Indiana, North Carolina, Florida, and even Maine could prove horrendously problematic for Obama next year. There are a lot of ways to divide and conquer.

321 But I forgot his last name and my googlefu doesn't kick in before noon...

How about your Bingfu?

322 Col Crazy ain't scared of NATO - they're more apt to bomb rebel fighters these days than Libyan regulars:

Gadhafi seen on Libya TV in first appearance in 5 days - Al Arabiya http://bit.ly/dT9PAc

323 Boehner is an awful Speaker and has to go, now. Posted by: iknowtheleft at April 09, 2011 12:15 PM (G/MYk) To be replaced by who, and when they fail to get the cuts you want because the Democratic Senate and Democratic President opt for a shutdown instead as a hail mary for 2012, will you be screaming for their head as well?

324 I forget and don't feel like looking it up,didn't the Dems in the house simply refuse to send aid to South Vietnam in 75?

325 Mynd you, gøøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...

326 The companies installed the wires but the bulk of the wires are on government right of ways that they got permission from the government to install.

They are not Federal right of ways.  Just sayin'.

327 The sole principle of Net Neutrality is that you don't favor one content provider over another which promotes competition

Exactly!

328 I think in 2013 it will be GOP House, GOP President, and just barely Dem Senate. Not perfect, but with that situation, assuming it is a Conservative President, the Dem Empire is doomed.

329

ok, this budget fight is over, now it's time to have a serious discussion about the debt limit.

well over 60% of the public would rather shutdown the government than raise the debt ceiling again... are they crazy?

 

I don't think they are, they are the sane ones, people who argue for an ever increasing debt limit ARE the crazy ones.

330 and just barely Dem Senate.

I think the Senate is in the bag, but not filibuster proof.

331 328, My wife and I got in a shouting match about Midnight after this came out. I say, he should have shut the Gov. down, Her, he only controls 1/3 of the Gov. He will be ready to fight another day. It's certainly not as good for us as it could have been but I see a liitle wisdom in what Boner did. He was not my first choice as speaker and still isn't. I'm going to have to see what they do with the Debt Ceiling before I break out my marching shoes.

332 I forget and don't feel like looking it up,didn't the Dems in the house simply refuse to send aid to South Vietnam in 75?

Posted by: steevy at April 09, 2011 12:17 PM (IcG2z)

They started cutting aid to the south when we pulled out in 73. By 1975 they had cut all of it including a bill that said we couldn't intervene.

333 Net Neutrality; if it wasn't another big power grab by the Obamanites it would be a joke.  A bunch of "streaming movie" providers got together and contributed heavily to the Obamnanite campaign above the table and probably contributed even more under the table (it is the Chicago way).

What they want is a free ride to send unlimited bandwidth down the internet at no extra cost. Meanwhile the people who built and own the internet infrastructure wind up with an overloaded system and huge expense in upgrading to handle the extra traffic which is not being paid for.

Here is a good analogy.  Suppose you live in a small neighborhood miles from any town and you have 10 houses in your immediate area. All of the houses are being supplied by deepwells with small capacity and problems with losing prime when power is interrupted.

You decide to do something about that and you sink a 4" well with a submersible pump down to the water table at 400 feet. Your neighbors agree to buy water from you at 5 cents/gal which will help you recoup costs. So you get a trencher and install a 2" water main in the neighborhood with 1/2" feeders to each house. Everyone has a steady supply of water now.

But low and behold along comes  Joe the factory guy who wants to build a factory that will use 50 gpm of water and he wants to connect to your main and no extra cost. You tell him no because your pump will only supply 50 gpm total at nominal pressure and him using 50 will cause everyone else to lose pressure and service unless you upgrade to another well and pump at huge costs.

He contributes $10,000 to the city and county council and wants them to pass a law that says you must supply him with water and at no extra cost above the 5 cents per gal. The county council says no but the city mayor gets the water department to condemn your water system and take it using imminent domain even though it is not in the city.

You sue and the court tells the mayor to pack sand. Mayor says OK, but I will do it anyway.

334 On Cavuto's show this morning, he had one of the big guys with the one of the Tea Party organizations (Michael something). The guy stated flat-out that the least attractive candidate for 2012 is Mitt Romney.

Also on Cavuto was a blue-dog Dem who seemed pretty level-headed. He was rather open and conversational about the games being played in D.C. and that although cuts are needed, it's tough when the GOP holds only the House. He seemed to be looking forward to getting into "tax reform, defense contractors and entitlements." I was still sleepy and can't remember his name either.

_{Note: Must wake up earlier on weekends.}

335 340 I thought treaties were the law of the land?Was the peace treaty not ratified?

336 What would our smartass POTUS have to say if my vehicle only gets 11mpg?

13mpg?
16mpg?

Was he just being glib, or is he privy to a feasibility study, with charts and shit, that detail a cost and benefits breakdown with a sliding window?

Do we have a Car Czar?

337 What's the problem?

338 342 Meckler was the Tea Party guy.

339 Posted by: Vic at April 09, 2011 12:21 PM (M9Ie6)

Nice analog.

340 and just barely Dem Senate. Not perfect, but with that situation, assuming it is a Conservative President, the Dem Empire is doomed. Posted by: eman: Japanese Babe Rescue Team at April 09, 2011 12:19 PM (dT+/n) How are we going to win the Presidency but not the senate? We have a near-lock on flipping Nebraska, we are favored heavily in North Dakota, favored in Virginia, and even in Missouri and Montana. This doesn't assume a half-competent challenger in New Mexico, Ohio, Michigan, and Florida, or if Lautenberg (hate to say this) croaks. We have a better shot at getting the Senate than the Presidency. If we are winning the White House back we already won NE,MO,MT,VA and at least one of MI,OH,FL,NM.

341 322: Well now netflix probably has to pay comcast for using comcast bandwidth. comcast/netflix customers can demand that the companies reach agreement or they will go with an SV internet or HULU ..... (there is always SOME choice if searched for hard enough) I don't want the government telling comcast it cannot charge netflix anything, or how much it can charge ..... and I SURE don't want the government going: "Hmm comcast, the conservative web hits outnumber liberal hits. You need to adjust packet speeds or something to make things fair" WHO is still naive enough to not worry about that coming if we let the FCC regulate net neutrality.

342 314 It is that simple. Not one penny can be spent unless the HOUSE decides to bring up the possibility of spending it.  Now, the Senate and the White House can deny the House's attempt at spending, but the Senate and White House can't spend a penny on their own.  Only the House can propose any spending.

The conference took several votes on going back to '06 levels but it was not adopted. An amendment to do the same was brought before the House during the debate over H.R. 1 and only 93Rs voted for it.

343 Thanks Vic, I think I understand now.

344 You sue and the court tells the mayor to pack sand. Mayor says OK, but I will do it anyway.

Posted by: Vic at April 09, 2011 12:21 PM (M9Ie6)

Here's another analogy. Suppose you declassify your privately owned electric company as a utility and let them charge whatever they want for electricity? They built the system or bought it, they pay to operate it. Why not let them charge whatever they want and only give you the amount of electricity they feel comfortable with?

345

with 1/2" feeders to each house.

That's not enough water to feed a house.   But that's a great analogy.

346 He's not going to take it anymore!!!!

347 The reason I ask is that I thought that the house defunded all aid to South Vietnam on it's own.

348 I thought treaties were the law of the land?Was the peace treaty not ratified? Posted by: steevy at April 09, 2011 12:22 PM (IcG2z) Yeah, well the 1975 Congress didn't give a shit. Jerry Ford should have ordered massive air strikes on North Vietnam and the invading army, and told the Congress to fuck off and he'd meet them in front of the Supreme Court at noon the next day. Too late now.

349 I think it's worth wading through the FCC agreement with Comcast to see the Social Justice extortion in action.

www.fcc.gov/FCC-11-4.pdf

6. In addition to these and other conditions, which are designed to remedy potential harms, we also look to the affirmative benefits of the proposed transaction, both those inherent in the combination as well as additional voluntary commitments made by the Applicants, in order to ensure that this transaction serves the public interest. These commitments, which we make enforceable through this Order, include but are not limited to:

and it goes to hell from there.

350 We have a better shot at getting the Senate than the Presidency. If we are winning the White House back we already won NE,MO,MT,VA and at least one of MI,OH,FL,NM. Posted by: CAC at April 09, 2011 12:25 PM (Gr1V1) Folks can boot out Ebola and vote to keep their idiot Senator. Never underestimate the weirdness of elections.

351 wiki is a good source for researching the net neutrality issue cause if something is totally wrong wiki is pretty good at not letting it stay there for long

it's a start and google too. 

352 I've got to disagree that this is an accomplishment. With all due respect to Miss Maple and her well written analogy above, if I were to consider this like a personal budget, I think it would be more like this: The bank account in empty and I have stacks of bills due and the end of the month is approaching. There's no money left on the credit card (debt ceiling) and I have a paycheck due before the end of the month that is not sufficient to cover more than one bill. My choice is to pick a bill to pay, be sent to collections on the rest and starve or buy groceries and be sent to collections on all the bills. Rather than deal with reality, I instead decide to go to the bank and take out a mortgage on my neighbors house and hope that no one notices that it's not my house. Flush with free money, I go home and pay all the bills. Okay, this month is covered. Relieved, I now ignore the fact the the coming month will have just as many bills coming due, plus I'll now need to make payments on my fraudulent mortgage so that no one comes looking finds out what I did... and that mortgage has a really shitty interest rate, because I had to go to a shady broker. We'll rather than think about that, heck those bills are a month away, I decide to go out, take in some cowboy poetry, take all my friends to dinner, and... oops!... I got kinda drunk last night and slept with some skank with scabs on her hoo hoo... No biggie, I will just spend the rest of my cash on an exam and some penicillin from Planned Parenthood. Whatever is left over, I'll send as a donating to that radio station I like.

353 349 322: Well now netflix probably has to pay comcast for using comcast bandwidth. comcast/netflix customers can demand that the companies reach agreement or they will go with an SV internet or HULU ..... (there is always SOME choice if searched for hard enough) I don't want the government telling comcast it cannot charge netflix anything, or how much it can charge .....

and I SURE don't want the government going: "Hmm comcast, the conservative web hits outnumber liberal hits. You need to adjust packet speeds or something to make things fair" WHO is still naive enough to not worry about that coming if we let the FCC regulate net neutrality.

Posted by: Palerider at April 09, 2011 12:25 PM (ql12X)

 

this is the real issue, comcast should be free to charge Netflix for using it's bandwidth, and if there is a law preventing them from doing so it should be stricken, but the answer is NEVER to give the government control of that process, that will always be a recipe for loss of freedom and economic stagnation.

354  The reason I ask is that I thought that the house defunded all aid to South Vietnam on it's own.

Posted by: steevy at April 09, 2011 12:27 PM (IcG2z)

No they were appropriations bills, passed both houses and ford signed them.

355 I think curious has snapped.

356 358 I was speaking structurally, not about any specific bills.

I know; my point was more about their will on the issue. That's why the 2012 budget starts smaller than the entirety of Budget wanted it, because they wouldn't have had enough votes to pass it on the floor.

357

Rightwingnews commenter, mfsheldon, nails the Republicans on Wisconsin voter fraud.

'. . . The right wingers know that in actuality ZERO voters showed up to vote in Brookfield on Tuesday. NONE. . . .'

358 if something is totally wrong wiki is pretty good at not letting it stay there for long

Maybe if it's demonstrably false.  If it's just a colourable difference of opinion, the lib mods insist that it be their way.  Wiki is worthless for anything controversial.

359 363 Fucking disgraceful.How did anyone ever trust us again and why?

360 Dems control White House, not fond of cuts.
Dems control Senate, not fond of cuts.
GOP controls House, fond of cuts.

There were cuts.

Posted by: Tom at April 09, 2011 10:11 AM (MWXXs)

House controls 100% of spending.  House is one third of gang that has to agree.  House should've held out indefinitely.  The best reason for going along with this was military paychecks -- so once again, the GOP failed to strategerize and were outmanuevered by devious commies who know what buttons to push.

"Fighting instincts of sheep" is dead on.  Two more points to ponder.  1) I A panelist on Bret Baier's midnight show (don't know who, as I was in another room) said that there were reports of reps on the phone w/their top lobbyists, asking if the deal was okay to take. 

2) Mark Levin was on Cavuto this a.m. and was on fire.  He's got a GOP staffer telling him that these ballyhooed cuts were taken from resolutions previously agreed to.  Cavuto said they'd follow up.

361 Posted by: Palerider at April 09, 2011 12:25 PM (ql12X)

Not letting the FCC regulate net neutrality is just the start.  The republicans have to know the issue, not the stuff given to them by the lobbyists (like the dems do) but real legal research on what it actually is so that they know what they are talking about and can speak to the issue and get out in front of it and make those of us who are young, see that the republicans aren't just a bunch of old white guys in the pockets of the corporations.  There has to be a way to protect the little blogger and the internet user and forward "free market capitalism which I believe is the best path to prosperity".

362 Why not let them charge whatever they want and only give you the amount of electricity they feel comfortable with?

That is exactly what they are doing now. The FCC wants to change that and force them to provide unlimited power to a few customers at no extra cost even though it will cost the service providers huge amounts in system upgrade.

The other side of the coin is the BS "fairness doctrine" that the Obamanites want reinstituted. The safeest thing to do with any government label is to thin the opposite of what they call it. The fairness doctrine become the anti-speech doctrine. If they gain the power to control the internet the one medium that conservatives have to get out their message will then be lost. All conservative sites will be shutdown in the name of fairness.

If you think this is farfetched remember why the FCC was created to begin with. And no it wasn't to regulate radio frequency allocations per international treaty. The department of the interior was ALREADY doing that before the FCC was created.

The FCC was created to "license" radio stations so that FDR could shutdown his critics in the name of "fairness". And that is exactly what happened.

In the end the Obammanites will get a two-fer. They get to pay off their 'friends and contributers" per the good old "American System" AND they get a leg up on reinstituting the fairness doctrine in media.

363 363 Fucking disgraceful.How did anyone ever trust us again and why?

Posted by: steevy at April 09, 2011 12:34 PM (IcG2z)

I wasn't aware that anyone really does trust us. We try and do the right thing, regarding Vietnam it was a blatent sellout.

364 this is the real issue, comcast should be free to charge Netflix for using it's bandwidth, and if there is a law preventing them from doing so it should be stricken, but the answer is NEVER to give the government control of that process, that will always be a recipe for loss of freedom and economic stagnation.

It's like the rails spending more than $1M per mile to lay track (not counting maintenance) and then the government wants them to set the freight on a side track so that high-speed rail can move forward.

I was so freaking thrilled to hear Michael Ward cut to the chase the other day I couldn't stand it. IT'S A BUSINESS!

365

Don't know if this has been mentioned but apparently Boehner forced Reid into a floor vote on Obamacare. Will it pass? Probably not but what is left if the "centrist" Dems will have to vote on this again. This is HUGE.

2012 goals are as I understand it; greater numbers in the house, control of the Senate, White House. Now I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but Bam Bam and the D's now have to run on the following;

Repeal Bush tax cuts set to expire

Vote down in Senate or veto of Obamacare

High gas/food prices/unemployment, none of which will come down enough by 12.
And now competition with R's on best ways to CUT spending

Sounds like a win to me

366 Damiano wins the thread.

367 372 Yeah,I have done a great deal of research and study on military history and I find that period(72-79)painful to look at.I was born in 72 and only remember a feeling of disgrace(the seens of helicopters on the roof of the US embassy),I thought we were militarily defeated.The truth is actually worse,I actually can't look at it dispassionately even now.

368 Mark Levin was on Cavuto this a.m. and was on fire.  He's got a GOP staffer telling him that these ballyhooed cuts were taken from resolutions previously agreed to.  Cavuto said they'd follow up.

Cavuto's show has rapidly become one of my favorites, maybe even number one. And Cavuto himself is really only second to Bret Baier in my book. (This, of course, takes into account that the master, Brit Hume, no longer has his own show)

369 There has to be a way to protect the little blogger and the internet user and forward "free market capitalism which I believe is the best path to prosperity". Posted by: curious at April 09, 2011 12:37 PM (k1rwm) It's called the free market. You and other young folks should read about it.

370 377 Cavuto is very good.

371

That is exactly what they are doing now. The FCC wants to change that and force them to provide unlimited power to a few customers at no extra cost even though it will cost the service providers huge amounts in system upgrade.

That isn't how I understand the potential problem and I could be wrong. The way I understand it is that Comcast would like to eliminate sites like netflix all together because they are in competition with their cable business.

Maybe they do that by charging $100 a movie or something. Your electric company charges more for heavy users but they are regulated.

It would be like if your electric company didn't want to compete with your gas company so they charged 10x more for power for them.

Keep in mind none of this has happened and my not ever. What if it does though?

372 >>wiki is a good source for researching the net neutrality issue cause if something is totally wrong wiki is pretty good at not letting it stay there for long First mistake. Wiki is a terrible place to research net neutrality, global warming, just about any lefty issue. Why? It's run by and edited by leftists. The guys who control the editing for global warming, all global warming enthusiasts. I don't know why you're having such a hard time understanding this. Net neutrality is an attempt to manage outcomes just like any lefty/socialist program. It would hurt innovation, raise costs for everyone (including you and your friends) make gov't the arbiter of how the internet runs and how content is distributed. It is anti-everything a free market conservative should want.

373 There has to be a way to protect the little blogger and the internet user and forward "free market capitalism which I believe is the best path to prosperity".

You seem to have bought into the talking points of  the government takeover crowd that without intervention by the government content on the net is in danger. Where is the evidence that ISP's are denying anyone access to the internet?

374 I don't know why you're having such a hard time understanding this. Net neutrality is an attempt to manage outcomes just like any lefty/socialist program.

Seems pretty clear to me.

375 My condolences to the dead young man's family and friends.

376 Another opinion on Boehner,  from Roger Simon:

John Boehner is getting a fair number of good reviews for his budget negotiating abilities, so I don't need to add mine. But I will. He is a much more impressive man than I thought he was. He has a skill we could all learn from: don't make it personal.

Most of us – myself very much included – are governed to a great degree by our anger. We also want to be the smartest person in the room. (Obama, of course, suffers severely from this, as does Gingrich.) We forget the object is to win, not to be RIGHT! So in the midst of that the proverbial forest is lost for the trees.

While I agree with Roger Kimball that what has been achieved here is but the tiniest tip of the tip of a particularly giant iceberg, I suspect Boehner may have changed the atmosphere. He has negotiated some pretty difficult shoals, using, in Kissingerian fashion, his right flank to gain more advantage from his adversaries. Has he been perfect? Of course not. But he has shown something we haven't seen in Congress for a long time – the ability to move things forward in a good way without increasing the level of mutual distrust. He has prepared the ground for even better things to come.

I don't know if he is a follower of Sun Tzu, but, more importantly, he acts like one.

377 I don't know why you're having such a hard time understanding this. Net neutrality is an attempt to manage outcomes just like any lefty/socialist program.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Oops! Hit the button too soon.

It's like a playground fight between two boys wherein the mother of one of the boys steps in and says "Okay, if you're going to fight, you're going to fight fair. So, I'll referee the match."

Duh.

378 369 2) Mark Levin was on Cavuto this a.m. and was on fire.  He's got a GOP staffer telling him that these ballyhooed cuts were taken from resolutions previously agreed to.  Cavuto said they'd follow up.

One of the freshmen on the Budget Committee said they pushed to make sure that didn't happen and it is his understanding that these weren't from bookkeeping. I'm also not sure how you would be able to copy cuts from one resolution to the next, unless the Levin is misunderstanding and the Dems agreed to some cuts from H.R. 1 which they previously voted-down. But that is not the same thing.

379

Posted by: laceyunderalls at April 09, 2011 12:08 PM (Zknkc)

dont feed the geese, if anyone does they want leave and your covered with poop everafter. most people see geese and say OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH look at the geese. they have never seen them take over a place and cover it with shit.

380 377 Mark Levin was on Cavuto this a.m. and was on fire.  He's got a GOP staffer telling him that these ballyhooed cuts were taken from resolutions previously agreed to.  Cavuto said they'd follow up.

Cavuto's show has rapidly become one of my favorites, maybe even number one. And Cavuto himself is really only second to Bret Baier in my book. (This, of course, takes into account that the master, Brit Hume, no longer has his own show)

Posted by: Biggie Smalls at April 09, 2011 12:42 PM (piMMO)

 

yeah, I don't count this as any kind of victory either, 39 billion no matter where it's coming from is less than one week's worth of spending, and there they all are out there on the news shows saying it's "historic" and other ridiculous crap, we've been sold down the river, yet again.

381 This is one of the most pathetic "deals" I've ever seen. I wouldn't be surprised if this shit sandwich doesn't fall apart before the end of the week. Posted by: iknowtheleft at April 09, 2011 12:47 PM (G/MYk) Game out for us what happens after the GOP House stops all Federal funding, or cuts this year's budget by $500 billion and next year's by $1 trillion.

382 385 ....Then it turns out that some aren't really cuts, but unspent funds finally being put away.

Do you have a reliable source on it being unspent funds?

383 359 That has a high likelihood. 

384 Okay. I'm on Ebay bidding on an original 1957 press photo of Saudi King Saud and Iraqi Prince Abdul Ilah. It's a photo of the two sitting casually together, while in D.C. for a meeting with Eisenhower.

It's just something that I think would be cool as hell to own.

What would you bid on it?

385 #393  Well,  personally,  I thought it was quite good.   If you ask me,  you are letting anger rule your decisions and opinions and are not looking further than this current agreement.

One can win a battle but lose a war,  as is being amply demonstrated by the Libyan rebels right now.

We cannot get the amount of cuts you want in one fell swoop.  You have to keep chipping away.  This is the first chip.

Boehner,  like the tortoise,  will keep plodding ahead,  cutting bits here and there without arousing the ire of the public.  You,  like the hare,  would race ahead,  pat yourself on the back for your speed,  and then find out you lost the race.

How old are you,  anyway?

386 395 No.  It's just what I heard.

Then how do you know it's true? This may be someone who's unhappy with the deal and trying to spread rumors. That's the way this game is being played-- some people for higher offices are pretending they're outraged over this deal when they're really not. OTOH, some who are running for higher office are really outraged but they're pretending it's a good deal because so many other conservative pundits are saying that.

387 curious- Since we are attempting to disabuse of some of your notions today, you should stop relying on Wiki for your "facts". In 2010 there was a minor controversy at Wikipedia when it was learned that 16 Global Warming activists were editing all entries on the site. What they were posting wasn't fact, it was left wing spin. William Connely was the most infamous of these assclowns. He is a biggie in the European Green movement and had been editing the AGW section of Wiki since 2003. Once this was brought to light all 16 were flushed from Wiki. That's seven long years at the height of the battle so your assertion that misinformation doesn't stand for long on Wiki is demonstrably false. Think how many people, particularly young people like you and your friends, got their "facts" on AGW from Wikipedia. Let me quote a little Hannibal Lecter quoting Marcus Aurelius for you: >>First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? What does he do, this man you seek? Net neutrality is a leftist wet dream. First principles, what do they live for? Control. Managed outcomes. Big government. There's a reason people here are pushing back on you regarding net neutrality. There's a reason the Tea Party is against it. It's not because we don't understand the issue.

388 I wanted to see what curious would say, but i'll answer my own question. Young people became supporters of net neutrality when the RIAA started cracking down on file sharing. Young people are under the mistaken impression that if the FCC steps in to control the net that their piracy sites will stay online and streaming, in other words, young people want net neutrality so they can keep getting their free movies and music.

What those young people don't seem to understand is that the entertainment industry pours lots of money into government and if the government takes over the net those piracy sites will be among the first things to go.

File sharing is a whole 'nother ball o' wax/discussion, but the idea we should support net neutrality because of young peoples desire to keep getting their free shit is ridicolous.

389 BiggieSmalls,  you have to decide what the maximum amount YOU would be willing to spend.  Then bid that and walk away until the auction ends.

Thanks for posting that.  I have Magic Lantern glass slides of Jerusalem, Syria,  Bedouins,  etc. from the 1920's.   This is when Jerusalem was a backwater and looked pretty much like it did  in Roman times.

What do you think a reasonable beginning bid would be?

390 397... Miss Marple...

I'm with you. Basic negotiating 101 tells you that if you have to engage the opponent once again, leave room to allow for them to come to the table. A real negotiation, whatever the currency, is always more complicated than what is seen on the surface and is seldom won in one conversation.

391 @386 Ok. I will concede your Sun Tzu point. The catch is, who is he using this strategy against? Exhibit A: As you point out, many pundits are praising him. For what, precisely? The catch phrase has been "historic cuts" of $38 billion. Ok, so what was cut? No one knows. Nor has anyone seen precisely what was cut to substantiate all the other cut claims in short term CRs. The rumor mill has it that most of the $38 billion is made up of "cuts" from Obama's budget that was never enacted. To put it simply, if I were to say, "hey, I want a Ferrari", then looked at my bank account and realized that there was no cash for groceries, much less a Ferrari. What this bill is saying is that if I decide not to go out and buy the Ferrari, I have somehow saved $250,000. Now, if I put conservative voters and Tea Party activists in the position of being the target of Boehner's Sun Tzu strategy, then I agree, he has certainly played a good game by trying to make us believe that we've gained some advantage, where in reality we are complicit in weakening ourselves while he strengthens his position of keeping his job.

392 402 Cavuto explained that 3 billion of the "cuts" were these sorts of phantoms.  I forget the details but he had listed two "cuts" of 2.5 and .8 (or something like that).  That's almost 8% of the claimed "cuts". 

Besides, this is part of what Boehner was talking about when he accused Dems of trying to offer fake cuts, before .... until the Weeping Boner decided to grab those fake cuts and run.

Is he talking about the CR from last night or the actual bill being voted-on next week?

393 BiggieSmalls,  you have to decide what the maximum amount YOU would be willing to spend.  Then bid that and walk away until the auction ends.

Thanks for posting that.  I have Magic Lantern glass slides of Jerusalem, Syria,  Bedouins,  etc. from the 1920's.   This is when Jerusalem was a backwater and looked pretty much like it did  in Roman times.

What do you think a reasonable beginning bid would be?

Oh, I'm quite familiar with the "I Won!" dynamics of bidding on Ebay, I was just curious whether anyone else saw value in it. I really didn't phrase my question clearly.

Now. What is Magic Lantern?

394 So the rumor-mill has a bunch of contradictory musings about how much of these cuts are actually from Obama's budget or unspent funds and the leakers cannot agree as to the amount that was supposedly taken from either. When they get on the same pg, maybe I'll actually listen to what they have to say.

395 This is not about Basic Negotiating 101. This is about having to deal with terrorists, which is exactly what Barky and the Dems are. And the way you deal with terrorists is not the same as the way you negotiate with decent people. Posted by: iknowtheleft at April 09, 2011 01:04 PM (G/MYk) What would you do?

396

the Government needs to keep it's filthy mitts off the Internets.

the Invisible Hand has been managing it quite nicely, let it continue.

397

Posted by: Biggie Smalls at April 09, 2011 12:57 PM (piMMO)

do some research........... i have been hooked on ebay over they years........ twice..... its like drugs...... i spent 50,000 bucks on there over two years awhile back.... but look at these cool Shooter Marbles that have Harley Logos engraved on them. i had to have them.......

398 This is not about Basic Negotiating 101.  This is about having to deal with terrorists, which is exactly what Barky and the Dems are.  And the way you deal with terrorists is not the same as the way you negotiate with decent people.

We can't shoot them. Given that....

Negotiating tactics apply when negotiating with decent people and the scum of the earth alike. It's just that some negotiations are tougher than others and require considerably more effort and a much firmer poker-face.

399 curious is either hopelessly naive and confused, or a very clever troll. Only she knows the truth.

400 To finish that sentence. As someone stated above, military pay was too easily identified as a "hot button" for the GOP side.

No poker face.

401 Damiano,  I am sure that if there are phantom cuts in this it will be revealed.  So far I have only heard Levin and a couple of bloggers repeat this with NO EVIDENCE.

I have lived long enough that I know that the rumor mill in DC is used as a weapon.  So I ask myself  some questions.

Who does this rumor hurt?  Who does it help?  Why is it important for someone to make Boehner seem like a liar?  What is the ultimate goal for this type of discord?

Seems to me that this is one of those little stinkbombs dropped into the mix to sow division in the GOP,  which unfortunately so very many fall for.   A prime example of this was the division and distrust caused by efforts at immigration reform.  There were lots of untruths about that promoted by various pundits,  politicians and radio hosts from both sides of the aisle.  The result was that nothing got accomplished except an increase in the distrust of Bush.

I have seen the New York Times pull this on more than one occasion.  Also certain radio people.  It is not helpful.

If the rumor is truth,  we will find out shortly.  Until then,  I am sticking with Boehner,  because he seems to me that he has done a good job.

The Umma person on Fox is trying her best to get Republican congressmen to say Boehner caved.  She did it with West earlier,  and now she is asking another guy.  I find this quite interesting . Liberals now want Boehner discredited.

402 411 He was talking about the budget deal - the final 2011 bill.

...which (as I say up-thread) the leakers cannot agree whether it was just part of the bill, the whole bill, half the bill, etc. Why aren't these anonymous sources on the same pg as to how much, and why should I believe them when they aren't sure?

403 do some research........... i have been hooked on ebay over they years........ twice..... its like drugs...... i spent 50,000 bucks on there over two years awhile back.... but look at these cool Shooter Marbles that have Harley Logos engraved on them. i had to have them.......

Oh my! Do you even play marbles?

And, while typing over here, the bid expired and the friggin thing went for only $10!!!!!

404

Here is what I understand happened on the budget. I can't find anyone with any facts to debunk it so if you have them let me know.

1. There was only one budget for this year submitted and that was by Obama. Nobody else had one.

2. Obama's budget was cut $40 Billion in the December CR. This brought it back to 2010 spending.

3. It was cut another $16 Billion in subsequent CR's

4. It was cut another $38.5 Billion last night.

5. Right now it is $54.5 Billion less than 2010 spending.

6. Reid agreed to allow an up or down vote on Obamacare and Planned Parenthood in the Senate.

7. Funds for Abortion in D.C. were eliminated

405 Biggie............ you have to learn tobe a sniper on ebay..... NEVER bid on anything until the last second and then bid 5 bucks higher than the highest bid.

406 If the dems want to shut the feds down, then let them do it. But the demands (which were pathetically weak) had to be met. Posted by: iknowtheleft at April 09, 2011 01:11 PM (G/MYk) Ok, you get the shutdown. Then what?

407 416 [...] Who does this rumor hurt?  Who does it help?  Why is it important for someone to make Boehner seem like a liar?  What is the ultimate goal for this type of discord?

I have a good guess-- some within the RSC hierarchy stated that they want the bill killed and they will do whatever it takes to lobby their members to against Boehner. So perhaps it's from within RSC.

408 #407  Magic Lantern was developed by Bausch and Lomb as a way to show slides on a screen.  they are about 3 inches X 4 inches in size and are glass.  I bought a bunch at an auction last fall and have been selling them on eBay (along with other stuff, I am a regular seller).

I have some this week with WWI scenes...French tanks,  destroyed towns,  nurses wrapping bandages, etc. 

A lot of people collect them and you can make prints from the slides. 

You can look my stuff up under christa9848, my seller ID.

409 416, Dammit Miss Marple, you sound like my wife. She makes sense too.

410 Biggie............ you have to learn tobe a sniper on ebay..... NEVER bid on anything until the last second and then bid 5 bucks higher than the highest bid. Posted by: Racefan at April 09, 2011 01:12 PM (9mbza) Yes, set a timer and keep watch. (Of course all the other smart players are doing the same thing.)

411 well hell yes i can shoot marbles.............

412 412

Posted by: Biggie Smalls at April 09, 2011 12:57 PM (piMMO)

do some research........... i have been hooked on ebay over they years........ twice..... its like drugs...... i spent 50,000 bucks on there over two years awhile back.... but look at these cool Shooter Marbles that have Harley Logos engraved on them. i had to have them.......

Posted by: Racefan at April 09, 2011 01:08 PM (9mbza)

 

a little advice from the Duke is in order here:

"Life is hard, it's harder when you're stupid"

 

413 Dammit Miss Marple, you sound like my wife. She makes sense too.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at April 09, 2011 01:14 PM (cDRYC)

You have to be careful when women start making sense to you. It could be you.

414 All along I've heard these platitudes about how we should have done/should be doing this or that but nobody knows how to get them done in a practical way. So it's wonderful to imagine $20T in cuts over 5yrs but it's sadly a fantasy.

415 429, Hmmmmm.........

416 Boehner,  like the tortoise,  will keep plodding ahead,  cutting bits here and there without arousing the ire of the public.  You,  like the hare,  would race ahead,  pat yourself on the back for your speed,  and then find out you lost the race. How old are you,  anyway? Posted by: Miss Marple at April 09, 2011 12:57 PM (Fo83G) Three points: 1. Without rousing public ire? It would appear to me that the left is livid, many on the right are unhappy, and the indies are generally ignorant, as usual. So precisely where has he failed to rouse ire? 2. You claim the "tortoise" is making plodding progress forward. Ok, substantiate your claim. Precisely what current spending has been cut? Where are the saving to what we were spending yesterday? Who, in the federal government, will no be going to work on Monday? Who is going to have to figure out how to live with reduced government largess next week? I don't see any reduction in anything. Cowboy poetry, NPR, Planned Parenthood, and African Genital Washing lessons are proceeding as scheduled. Oh, and look! There's a federally funded parade today! 3. Why are you calling someone out on age? This is not the first time in this thread where you imply that you are the adult in the room and regard others a children who should listen to your wisdom and STFU. Kinda sounds familiar. Where have I heard this type of argument before? Oh yeah! From politicians who, when they have no substantive argument, inevitably fall back on, "I am you intellectual superior, so sit down". Perhaps you would care to present a position and facts to support it instead of claiming a mantle of superiority, which like your argument, you've failed to back up.

417 back in the day ebay would put a small smiley face wearing dark shades on next to your name, which meant watch out for this guy........ he will sniper your ass at the last second.

418 430 All along I've heard these platitudes about how we should have done/should be doing this or that but nobody knows how to get them done in a practical way. So it's wonderful to imagine $20T in cuts over 5yrs but it's sadly a fantasy.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at April 09, 2011 01:16 PM (uVLrI)

 

and the reality of spending 3.8 trillion while only taking in about 2 trillion, what's that? chopped liver?

which "reality" can we change?

419 #430  I consider this the "If I were King" method of thinking. 

In a Republic,  you are not going to get the type of results people seem to be clamoring for.

Boehner isn't king,  just the leader and doing the best he can.  All of these complaints are from people who don't actually have to deal with Obama in person.
They have the luxury of complaining without having to perform.

420 Biggie............ you have to learn tobe a sniper on ebay..... NEVER bid on anything until the last second and then bid 5 bucks higher than the highest bid.

Yeah. I know. I haven't spent $50k on there (my God!) but I've made a couple of hundred purchases. I bought my dining room table at about 2 in the morning by sniping. And, I wasn't the only one there. I barely got it.

Waiting to snipe is how I just lost the photo because, at the last minute, I was over here a minute too long!

421 eman, if the consequence of Republicans budgeting responsibly is that the Dems win the next cycle, no matter what, than America should be destroyed finally and utterly. If that's the truth, there is no point at all in fighting over anything. I guess that's where the GOP leadership is coming from, but it's not good enough for me.

422 From The Hill:

"Jordan said he expects 'significant' opposition from conservatives, both to the short-term fix and the long-term spending bill. He said he will vote against both."

423

Posted by: Shoey/Sgt Batguano at April 09, 2011 01:15 PM (yCH89)

not stupid, just had some bucks to play with.........  i didnt just buy marbles on there. i also bought cars...... i made all the marble money back on the cars.

424 432, I don't see any reduction in anything. Cowboy poetry, NPR, Planned Parenthood, and African Genital Washing lessons are proceeding as scheduled. Oh, and look! There's a federally funded parade today! I agree with your frustration, I feel the same way. What I gathered from Miss Marples thesis was that it is important to examine the media and political motivations from all sides. The age thing may have been uneccessary, but I for one am trying to figure out if boner punted or he is playing the old bull in the joke. Is he walking down to fuck them all?

425 back in the day ebay would put a small smiley face wearing dark shades on next to your name, which meant watch out for this guy........ he will sniper your ass at the last second.

I've been using Ebay since they were founded and like to think I as one of the first people to figure out the whole sniping gig, but never have I seen a smiley face. That must have been a really short-term thing, and I'm happy for that!

426 i had a stop watch and had it set to the second with Ebay time........  i always put my one and only bid in when there was 5 seconds left..........

427 Diamano,  I will concede that I should not have said something about age.  Perhaps it is because I am feeling particularly elderly today and am trying to see a benefit in being old.  HA!  I apologize for that attitude.

However,  I also must point out that for many years I have seen comments about how emotional women are,  and yet it seems there are a fair amount of emotional men on this thread.  I find that interesting. 

Now,  as far as my tortoise analogy,  are you forgetting the cuts that were made in earlier continuing resolutions,  going all the way back to the early part of this year?   Please refer to post 418,  where robtr has listed the cuts. 

Boehner also has put Ryan in charge of the budget and he has produced a pretty good plan,  not perfect,  but better than anything the democrats have provided,  which is exactly nothing.

The "ire" on the left is without consequence.  They are angry because they lost.  The anger on the right is from people who are thinking that Boehner refused to use his magic wand.  But the vast majoroity of the public will think this is pretty much an innocuous cut and will think Boehner is not the big villain that the left is trying to portray.  As Simon wrote,  he did not interject his personality into this and avoided grandstanding.  This is the mark of a smart guy who knows what he's doing.

428 434 430 

and the reality of spending 3.8 trillion while only taking in about 2 trillion, what's that? chopped liver?

which "reality" can we change?

It's ignoring reality too, but short of taking all the Dems hostage somehow and resorting to other means, I don't see how we get them to see the reality of this. But we can keep shifting that Overton Window by showing the American people what should be possible, if only the Dems weren't so incredibly stubborn. 

“These people [Democrats] have been in Congress a long time. Clearly they see the fiscal problems. Clearly they know the road ahead is a debt crisis. They must be complicit with it if they’re willing to use this type of demagoguery and rhetoric. I find it really quite amazing. It’s politics. I don’t know what else to conclude."

429 eman, if the consequence of Republicans budgeting responsibly is that the Dems win the next cycle, no matter what, than America should be destroyed finally and utterly. If that's the truth, there is no point at all in fighting over anything. I guess that's where the GOP leadership is coming from, but it's not good enough for me. Posted by: Methos at April 09, 2011 01:21 PM (uqJo6) The trick is to win in 2012. Then you can begin reversing 100 years of abuse. Nothing like it can be done now.

430

they stopped using them about 10 years ago.

 

431

so what happens if they listen to the TEA Party and stop the printing, and borrowing and spending?

economic collapse pretty darn quick. the socilaists will roit in the streets, unemployment will skyrocket, deflation. misery and woe... but we hold together, why? because it will have been the choice of the governed.

 

so what happens if the Ruling Class gets their way and we keep printing and borrowing and spending?

 

economic collapse later, the people will roit in the streets as things gradually get worse and worse, unemployment will skyrocket, inflation. misery and woe... and we don't hold together, why? because it will not have been the choice of the governed.

432 I'm still not happy about the leadership limiting the 2012 budget-- though they had the backing of the conference-- but I have to give Boehner this one. While his members may have pressed him, he got Reid and Obama to give more than I thought possible. I think focusing on more than just the numbers also puts it into perspective. Reid has been running the Senate like the dictator he is and he's now agreed to an up-or-down vote on two important measures. Now, maybe he'll wiggle-out or pressure his members to stay with him, but either option is bad for him. The press has been reporting the concessions because they're angry and people are slowly coming to understand there is more to this deal. I think applying pressure to Dem senators who are vulnerable is a worthy cause.

433 448 I should add that no one on the Budget Comm. is a member of the leadership. The Vice Chairman and a few others were the ones who said they were getting leaned-on and the GOP Budget is a consensus document.

434 I think that it is important to separate the political goals and the practical ones. Certainly, Boehner and the Republican House are is a weak position, both in terms of the necessity of making politically damaging decisions and because they are only 1/2 of 1/3 of the government. They also have the advantage of having exclusive authority on spending bills and have the support of the majority of the public in making substantial budget cuts. I agree that, if Republicans were to make the "draconian" cuts that are, in reality, absolutely necessary, it is possible that, come 2012, they some may lose their positions and, perhaps, the House majority. So what is the alternative? Shall we accept stagnation in action and no substantive reduction in a problem that has the potential to ruin our country for generations, in the hope that Boehner and co can keep their jobs for another term? My opinion is that, in the 20 months ahead, were Boehner to hold the position he was elected to hold and honor the commitments that were made to give him his position, he would have the support of everyone that put him there and, in the months ahead, many of those who are calling cuts "draconian" would realize that the apocalypse that they prophesied is false and that cowboy poetry, NPR, and Planned Parenthood have simply gone one with the more that sufficient funding they have that does not come from taxpayer dollars. In short, our choice is inaction and face the sure result of economic collapse or action and roll the dice on who sits in Washington 20 months from now. Personnally, even if it costs seats, I think that 20 months of a sane budget would be the greater gain.

435 If the Republicans weren't going to deliver $100B, they shouldn't have promised $100B.  And they shouldn't have made the $100B their opening position when dealing with the Senate.

436 not stupid, just had some bucks to play with.........  i didnt just buy marbles on there. i also bought cars...... i made all the marble money back on the cars.

You are gutsy, sir. I don't think I could ever purchase a car from Ebay. Then again, back in the day, it really was more of an online garage sale. Before the scammers and the dregs got hold of it. Now you have to watch for fakes around every corner. Ebay didn't help matters any with their absurd rating system that allowed for punitive feedback by sellers if you dared to report their fraud. So, Ebay changed their policy and now half the sellers don't leave feedback at all.

It used to be that you could use the feedback a  seller received to determine their trustworthiness. Now, you also have to check to see if they leave feedback as well.

437 the most Moron thing i did on ebay was i bought a car that was close to Key Largo. my duddy bropped me off at Atlanta airport at 11:00 on Sat. morning going to Miami. took a cab to Key Largo and got the car and was back home at 9 Sunday morning........... minus the cost of all the sack of blow i did and plane ticket..........  still made 3,000 bucks.... i drove 857 miles that night.

438 You know, wouldn't it be funny if we spent half as much time and energy fighting the Democrats as we did fighting each other?

Wait, not funny, what's the other word...

439 and had fun the whole time........ i cant do that anymore, not as young as i used tobe. maybe a little smarter also.

440

Lets see... in December a study was released that said the US Fed Gov had between 100 and 200 BILLION in redundant spending... ie multiple agencies doing the same thing...

Why in the heck did the Repubs put THAT in the Bill?  It would have met the TEA Party pledge... and there is NO way the Dems could have fought against it...

But instead.... sidetracked by Social Issues (Planned Parenthood et al)... they settled for LESS than they easily could have gotten...

And Repub water carriers are declaring it a victory (Fox News and Pundits)... because it makes the Repubs look better, while not solving the problem...

/shakes head and wanders back out of the thread...

441 i dont like it either that they stopped the feedback thing..........  i wouldnt deal with anyone that didnt have 100% good feedback.

442 the most Moron thing i did on ebay was i bought a car that was close to Key Largo. my duddy bropped me off at Atlanta airport at 11:00 on Sat. morning going to Miami. took a cab to Key Largo and got the car and was back home at 9 Sunday morning........... minus the cost of all the sack of blow i did and plane ticket..........  still made 3,000 bucks.... i drove 857 miles that night.

A plane trip, a road trip, a bag of blow and a profit. Sounds like one hell of a trip to me!

443 I'll try to be productive rather than critical: What if the Republican House were to simply say, "okay, let's keep everything and not cut a dime. How, pray tell, Mr. Reid and Mr. Obama, are we to fund all of it?" This serves to purposes: 1. It puts them in a cooperative stance. 2. It forces the Democrats to both justify their programs and come up with proposals to fund them. Neither of which can be done in any way that would be palatable to the public. Instead, they have taken a position of being the bad cop. "We're going to cut, cut, cut!", which forces a false negotiation where there is no room to negotiate. We have no money. There is absolutely no mathematical way to sustain our current, much less the proposed, spending. All that can be done it to exponentially expand our debt and kick the can a bit further down the road. The Democrats have the Senate and the White House, and thus the majority advantage, yet have offered no proposals and only taken a position of blocking and cutting any proposals that the House passes. Fine. Stop and offer them the opportunity to lead. This shores up the strength of the Republican position and places them squarely in a cooperative role that has taken action. The Dems failed to pass a budget. We passed one. It's the best we can do and they refuse to act on our suggestions. Okay, what are your ideas?

444 The GOP Made a Bad Deal Last night's budget compromise amounted to series of broken promises by the GOP, and it was a tremendous opportunity lost. No matter what the accounting tricks and PR machinations say, the simple facts are that the GOP promised conservatives $100 billion in cuts, and didn't deliver. Worse yet, the GOP misread its mandate for massive spending reform, and will suffer for it to the benefit of Democrats. Here's why: 1. There's too much at stake. This was last week's talking point -- one the GOP may have relinquished last night -- but it's impossible to underestimate the threat that that spending presents. Blogger Ace of Spades captured things nicely in writing that even Rep. Ryan's proposed budget cuts are necessary, but hardly sufficient. "If you believe that the GDP will start growing at a healthy rate and continue at that rate forever, and if you manage to reform Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security, and if you reform the budget process, and if you reform the tax code, and if you accomplish all these reforms in FY12, then you might be able to pay off this year's spending within 11 to 12 years. Or maybe the decade after. This is what the President and his crackerjack economic team have wrought. A one-year deficit that is so large that it can only be paid back if everything goes exactly right." In the broader "spending-us-into-oblivion" context, last night's compromise struck exactly the wrong note. Forget "runaway spending." Ever seen Unstoppable?

445 #458  Let me tell you that you need to be a little cautious about that 100% good feedback.  Sellers get dinged by psychos and competitors.  I haven't had it happen to me recently, but it can happen.

I had a stalker last fall who accused me of fraud over a first edition Hardy Boys book,  which was indeed,  a first edition,  and I had listed it at 99 cents due to condition. 

Multiple threats and trying to tell me he was going to get the feds to arrest me.  I finally had to get help from eBay and I think they removed his registration.  Kike I would go to the trouble for a fraudulent item for 99 cents. Jeesh!

There are crazy people out there!

446 I think some of the people who will lead the fight over the 2012 budget will lose their seats, including the freshmen. The DCCC has been running ads against anyone who has supported entitlement reform and I think the Dems have a good chance of winning that debate in spite of the evidence because people prefer the status quo. But these individuals still have to try to change minds regardless, and I think they will.

447 L....... i was going to stay the night in Daytona. but when i got there i went to a bar on the beach and ate a plate of shrimp and had a beer and said.......... its been a good trip so far might as well keep going.....  did a line with the waitress in the bathroom and hit I-95........

448 More Dem whining:

Robert Reich, the former labor secretary under President Bill Clinton, wrote on Twitter: “The right held the U.S. govt hostage, and O paid most of the ransom — inviting more hostage-taking. Next is raising debt ceiling.”…

Rep. Weiner: “Our fights can’t be just to stop their horrible ideas. Don’t we need to have our own agenda?”

449 Posted by: Miss Marple at April 09, 2011 01:56 PM (Fo83G) Huh-huh. You said Kike.

450 Ebay didn't help matters any with their absurd rating system that allowed for punitive feedback by sellers if you dared to report their fraud. So, Ebay changed their policy and now half the sellers don't leave feedback at all.

It used to be that you could use the feedback a seller received to determine their trustworthiness. Now, you also have to check to see if they leave feedback as well.

Posted by: Biggie Smalls at April 09, 2011 01:40 PM (piMMO)

I used to sell on eBay. One of the big problems is that sellers can ONLY leave positive feedback, and for some reason some buyers SCREAM for instant feedback as if it made a difference buying - it only really matters to sellers. Because buyers can only get positive feedback.

I repeat, sellers are not allowed to leave critical feedback. So if a buyer takes the item and does a chargeback, returns a broken (even substitute) item for refund, or is just generally a creepy stalker, a seller is not allowed to warn others.

That's why a lot of people stopped using the feedback system, it doesn't mean a lot anymore. Especially when they linked listing placement and some seller features to the "star rating" system, then encouraged buyers to rate sellers based on assumptions that a perfect transaction was average, which penalized the sellers.

I got tired of getting kicked in the head by eBay, so I don't sell there anymore. Also the strange idea some buyers had that it was an adversarial system.

451 and there is NO way the Dems could have fought against it...

Posted by: Romeo13 at April 09, 2011 01:44 PM (NtXW4)

Okay, that was funny. Seriously, you should tour. Steven Wright has nothing on you.

452 Well we can keep dreaming about the Dems giving us everything we want and more, but it isn't going to happen. If you want to cut spending, you unfortunately have to make deals with the other party because they control a majority of government. We can't change that fact just because we'd like to pretend otherwise.

453 On the flip side: The GOP Did Just Fine A.J. Strata highlights the much bigger win that has been foreordained by the fine print, not conveyed in the number alone: The budget number is pretty good, mainly because it kills programs instead of lowering their budgets for 6 months. So those 6 month numbers expand and grow in the coming year (snip) [emphasis added] Obama even admitted in his speech infrastructure projects were being ‘delayed' (i.e., de-funded in 2011). Once de-funded, they will not be back any time soon. As fox News reports, this is a lot farther than the Democrats said they would be willing to go when this all started. (snip) However, Boehner must have had an incredible stick in those negotiations, because Reid and Obama agreed to put things to vote in the Senate which everyone deemed impossible just last week. That is the truly amazing part of what Boehner pulled off yesterday: The agreement reached with Senate Democrats guarantees a Senate debate and vote on legislation that would repeal President Obama's government takeover of health care in its entirety. The House passed such legislation in January as part of the Pledge to America. ... The agreement with Senate Democrats guarantees a Senate debate and vote on legislation that would end federal funding for Planned Parenthood. The last thing Reid or Obama want is a vote in the senate on Obamacare (or Planned Parenthood). But now they are going to have to vote and this is huge. If this happens, and 4 of those 23 red-state Democrats up for reelection in 2012 vote against Obamacare, then the President will have to veto a bipartisan bill that lines up with the overall will of the American voters. What could be better than isolating Obama and Obamacare from the will of the people and Congress heading into 2012?

454

practical reality has a way of overwhelming political reality, funny how that works. 

455 I repeat, sellers are not allowed to leave critical feedback. So if a buyer takes the item and does a chargeback, returns a broken (even substitute) item for refund, or is just generally a creepy stalker, a seller is not allowed to warn others.

That is now. It is a fairly recent development and, in most cases, if a buyer pays on time, then feedback is warranted. The system used to allow for sellers to slam the hell out of a buyer if they dared to tell the tale of what a shoddy product they had received. And, Ebay didn't give a damn.

I once made a purchase and when it arrived, it was not at all what had been sold to me. It was a fake, and a used fake at that. When I corresponded with the seller and couldn't get a response, I left an honest feedback. He retaliated that I had been a slow payer. Despite evidence to the contrary (I had paid within an hour) Ebay refused to get involved in the dispute. It took quite a number of similar complaints from buyers before they shut the seller down.

456 2. Obama's budget was cut $40 Billion in the December CR. This brought it back to 2010 spending.

Obama's 2011 request was $300 billion more than the 2010 budget.

457

This is in response to comment #5 from Miss Marple.

This is why you are wrong.

1)  You said, "The democrats wanted ZERO cuts"

That is exactly what they got!  I am baffled that so few seem to get this.  This years budget is a HUGE increase from last year.  Compared to last years levels the budget was not cut, it increased by many, many hundreds of billions, our deficit will still increase from 1 trillion to about 1.7 trillion.

If a used car salesman increases his prices by 70% and then has a 1.05% sale, how in the world is that a price "cut" or a "win"?  Overall it's still what, a 68% increase?

2) You said, "I thought Boehner did better than expected and proved himself to be an able and wily negotiator."

Boehner promised at least $100 billion in cuts and to defund Obamacare.  He did neither.  Fail and Fail! 

What is the saying, if you compromise with evil, evil always wins.  Yeah, great negotiator.  Democrats got everything they wanted, we got nothing.

3) You said, "On Twitter this morning Reich was saying that "the right wing bullies" won.  He is angry.  Matt Yglesias says that they are going backwards and that the GOP "hostage takers" won.  I am pleased.  Remember,  Reagan always said you go for the best deal you can get,  and then go back for more.  "

You are a sucker.  What do you exect the Democrats to say in response?  Nah-Nah-Nah-Boo-Boo!  We're still spending 1.7 trillion bucks that we don't have, your kids get to fund today's abortions against their will, and you were chicken enough to let us do it!  Hahaha!

Anything that comes out of a politician's, especially a Democrat's, mouth is meant to manipulate.  Obama is out there heralding this as his victory.

If people like you don't wake up, we are headed for absolute collapse of the economy and the US government.  The fall of Rome is coming.  The CBO, which is itself a rather liberal group, is projecting total collapse by 2037.  According to them there is nothing we can do to avoid it because the debt levels are already too high.  And of course this timeline is easily subject to acceleration factoring the possibility of a real depression, dollar losing reserve status, oil prices, food prices, other wars, natural disasters, etc.  A lot of unknowns that have the potential to make things worse.

Does anybody really think countries like China will continue to buy our treasuries and finance our debt through 2037?

The next big vote is raising the debt ceiling.  With one simple vote the Republicans have the power to force the federal govt to balance its books.  Will they weild this power?  No, they'll chicken out like they did this time.  The debt ceiling will have to be raised 2 trillion to keep the govt going another year.

458 Well we can keep dreaming about the Dems giving us everything we want and more, but it isn't going to happen. Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at April 09, 2011 02:08 PM And that is the attitude of the GOP: can't, can't, isn't, won't, can't. Therefore, they don't even bother to try. I think there is a huge disconnect between people such as yourself (not an insult, just a descriptor) and people such as Monty (and those who believe his descriptions of DOOM! for this nation ahead. People such as yourself get all caught up in small little processes and little political games being played and "wins" over bills that don't even begin to solve any of our problems. Meanwhile, others understand what Monty is saying about the big picture numbers and how this is unsustainable for our nation and how if we don't stop this *now*, we are not figuratively, just for kicks "doomed", but we are actually, in reality, doomed as a nation. For most people, this is not about "can't" or "isn't gonna happen" or "dreaming", this is about what *has to be done*. What many do not understand is how people such as yourself can look at small details in irrelevant bills that don't solve our huge fiscal crisis and call them "wins" simply because "the Democrats are pissed off". This isn't about politics anymore. This isn't about GOP vs Democrat or liberal vs conservative. This is about saving our nation from fiscal disaster. When we're talking about trillions in debt, most people don't consider it a "win" to agree to $40bil or $60bil or $100bil in cuts. We are, what, $3tril in debt? $100bil is 3% of that. That's like saying it's a big win that I paid off $333 on a debt of $10,000. I really don't believe that people understand the seriousness of this situation in which we are in. This is not a political game to the majority of people. And when they hear and read people saying things like this are "wins" simply because members of a political party or liberals are whining, that rubs them the wrong way. And it furthers the disconnect when these people are told they are "dreaming" when they expect our elected officials to take things as seriously as they do.

459 That is now. It is a fairly recent development and, in most cases, if a buyer pays on time, then feedback is warranted. The system used to allow for sellers to slam the hell out of a buyer if they dared to tell the tale of what a shoddy product they had received. And, Ebay didn't give a damn.

Posted by: Whatever! is jmflynny at April 09, 2011 02:17 PM (piMMO)

People who only buy generally consider all buyers to be angels. It's not true. Feedback used to be a relatively even playing field, which unfortunately was abused on both sides.

So now the system is all about buyers and sellers can go to hell. I suggested at the time that eBay simply automatically give buyers positive feedback and leave the sellers out of it, since that was apparently their goal.

A lot of sellers didn't particularly want to participate in such a gamed system. There was a relatively small corps of "aggressive buyers" who lobbied for the changes. Right after that I started getting messages after a few sales demanding I leave positive feedback IMMEDIATELY or I'd get negative feedback.

From a non-selling buyer. To whom feedback was essentially irrelevant unless it was terrible, because nobody cancels bids unless feedback is terrible, and you can't block bidders based on feedback.

It became less of a cooperative system and more of an adversarial system, and since I was selling to supplement income and not for a living, I could decide not to put up with the grief anymore.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience as a buyer, I had dozens of them as a seller, from people who used neighbors' addresses and pretended they never got a package to people who returned different items to people who bid and never responded on expensive items to creepy stalker people and shipping Nazis who did weird crap like chargeback on shipping cost because they thought it was too much or just feedback blackmailers.

460 Andrew / Clyde

Come up with a plan that can actually work, given circumstances. I'll back it.

461 I'm sorry you had a bad experience as a buyer, I had dozens of them as a seller, from people who used neighbors' addresses and pretended they never got a package to people who returned different items to people who bid and never responded on expensive items to creepy stalker people and shipping Nazis who did weird crap like chargeback on shipping cost because they thought it was too much or just feedback blackmailers.

That absolutely stinks and may help to explain why some of my favorited sellers are no longer in business.

I miss the gold old days of ebay. The scum always ruin things for the rest of us.

462

#143 "The 1 trillion dollar question is would a government shutdown have eventually generated the cuts that we do need (which are politically unfeasible)? Quick answer is no, so all the fury about this supposed "betrayal" is misplaced."

That's your opinion.  I disagreee.  Read your Constitution.  The House has authority over the budget.  If the Republicans had the stones the govt would have stayed shutdown until the Senate and President were willing to truly spend within our means.

According to the Constitution the House is in charge of the budget.  It is the House that tells the rest of the govt how much money they have to spend, like a parent giving an allowance.  If the Senate and Presidnet, like a spoiled brat, want to reject the allowance because it isn't "enough," they can do that, but it's still the parents money and they are responsible for it and it's up to them to say no and tell the kid who's in charge.

If there had been a real shut down that lasted for weeks or months, who do you honestly think would have been affected worse politically?  In that time the truth would have come out about what's going on.  And really, you think the dems would have even had the stones to let it go on that long?  Not a chance.  All it would have required is a few Dem Senators to cave, and then all the pressure would fall flat on Obama and his pen.

463 That absolutely stinks and may help to explain why some of my favorited sellers are no longer in business.

Posted by: Whatever! is jmflynny at April 09, 2011 02:47 PM (piMMO)

It also got more expensive and they started favoring "corporate sellers" even at the listing level (i.e. their listings would always show up first).

Since I'm being the eBay Eeyore.

The problems definitely got worse the year before I quit, which was about the time the "Star Ratings" went into place.

I should probably sell something there soon, because they owe me $125 in refunded listing fees and won't let me cash out.

464 New budget thread up, BTW.

465

Merovign,

First things first, to have any hope of implementing a true solution, Congress needs to truly be whitewashed.  The 2010 elections were very encouraging that we can turn this around, but what we learned last night and over the past weeks is that the fight has just begun.  Guys like Boehner and Cantor need to go.  In my opinion a massive effort needs to be put together to get these guys voted out in 2012.  A clear and decisive message needs to be sent to the Republicans at large that if they aren't going to be true to their constituents and promises they'll get sent home too.  The RINO acronym is 100% true and there are a lot of 'em.

We need a true leader like Paul Ryan or Ron Paul as the Speaker.

If I thought a 3rd party would have any meaningful effect, I'd be all for it.  But such as it is, I think it would just divide the vote and make things worse.  I think the most realistic solution is to turn the Republican party around.  Keep doing what started in 2009-2010 times 10.  If that proves to simply be impossible then make sure you have food and ammo storage to protect your family.  People call the doom and gloomers nuts, but this really is happening.  Does anybody think I'm nuts for suggesting this?  If so I'd like to know what you think is going to happen if we keep going down this road of debt? 

And keep in mind, this isn't just about the current 14+ trillion in debt, it's also about all the unfunded liabilities, aka social security, medicare, and medicade.  Obamacare further adds to this.  Other entitlements add even more.  We can't even calculate for sure what all the entitlements add up to, but estimates are around 50-100 trillion in additional debt. 

The problem isn't just about reducing current spending.  Even if we cut current spending levels in half and balance the budget, we still have to figure out how to pay back the current 14+ trillion while also paying for the 50-100 trillion in existing unfunded liabilities headed our way.  It may not even be possible, the CBO doesn't think it is.

But the bottom line is people need to wake the heck up and stop making excuses for guys like Boehner and giving them endless chances.  Enough is enough.  This isn't a Republican vs Democrat issue.

There are lots of good guys in there.  Paul Ryan seems to have a very good plan.  His budget is an excellent practical first step.  And that's really the important point, most think Ryan's plan is "radical" and are against it.  When in fact the opposite is true.  The CBO doesn't think even a Ryan-style plan is enough to correct the course we're on.  Ryan himself says it's just a first step.  More would need to be done in the years to follow.  But given what we just witnessed, do you think his plan has a chance of going anywhere with the folks currently in office?  No way.

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