June 02, 2011
— Gabriel Malor An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.
Posted by: Gabriel Malor at
03:06 AM
| Comments (342)
Post contains 25 words, total size 1 kb.
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 03:07 AM (M9Ie6)
More signs that show how stupid OBama is
He intends to campaign on bailouts of GM and Chrysler unions and tell everyone it bailed out Detroit.Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 03:14 AM (M9Ie6)
His answer ranks "somewhere below 'no controlling legal authority' and above 'wide stance,' " said Democrat crisis-management specialistChris Lehane.
Complete article in the Washington Post at this link:
http://tinyurl.com/3bsrxpg
Also includes a description of Weiner taunting Ryan because he has more followers than Ryan. (And the Post points out that Ryan actually has more.)
Posted by: Miss Marple at June 02, 2011 03:15 AM (Fo83G)
Gee NBC is surprised that the real data shows DOOM!
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 07:11 AM (M9Ie6)
HEY!!!...watch this, ummmmmmmmmm, 9-iron shot!
Posted by: TEH WON at June 02, 2011 03:15 AM (Cwo/J)
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at June 02, 2011 03:17 AM (NtTkA)
Posted by: GnuBreed at June 02, 2011 03:18 AM (ENKCw)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 03:21 AM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Potato Bandit at June 02, 2011 03:21 AM (vj3id)
Yeah I saw that. I am not so sure that is gonna play so well except with his hard left wing base?
Not even sure it will play there. The more money unions suck up the less money there is available to destroy the rest of the American economy for their favored social programs.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 02, 2011 03:23 AM (sbV1u)
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at June 02, 2011 03:24 AM (NtTkA)
I woulda done the same thing, but I'd explain why it would be conservative.
Posted by: Mitt Romney at June 02, 2011 03:25 AM (TpXEI)
More controversy over "for profit" colleges
Amazing, the government takes over the student loan buisness and corruption explodes. Here we have speculators dictating the regulations for how a college will "qualify" to have their student loans ok'd by the government so they can profit when the stock plummets.Who would have seen this kind of shit coming? How about this..
Get the government out of the colleges totally.period.end. Then there is no need for the regulations and they can ALL be eliminated.
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 03:26 AM (M9Ie6)
Posted by: toby928™ at June 02, 2011 03:27 AM (GTbGH)
Posted by: dogfish at June 02, 2011 03:27 AM (N2yhW)
I'm not saying I agreed with either of those two programs, but if they are going to call them a success, they really need to give credit to Bush.
And one more thing.. When they talk deficits, they always lump TARP into Bush's last year.. it makes Bush look like he had a 1.4 Trillion deficit. They always fail to mention that TARP has been paid back nearly in full with interest.. when they DO mention that, Obama is trying to take credit for it. Asshole.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 02, 2011 03:29 AM (qsodE)
Posted by: Miss Marple at June 02, 2011 03:29 AM (Fo83G)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 03:29 AM (i6RpT)
Posted by: mark x at June 02, 2011 03:30 AM (plLN9)
Posted by: Liberal College Professor at June 02, 2011 03:30 AM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at June 02, 2011 03:31 AM (NtTkA)
Lehane's mocking comment indicates there might be more to this than the initial story. If he has done something illegal (like harassment or an involvement with an underage female) the democrats will really be in a frenzy of denial.
His interest in certain social issue laws makes this a real possibility.
Posted by: Miss Marple at June 02, 2011 03:33 AM (Fo83G)
Posted by: mark x at June 02, 2011 03:37 AM (plLN9)
I bet Congress and the WH will suddenly remember the Constitution as justification for not reforming the USPS but instead pouring in GM style funding, never to be seen again.
Posted by: GnuBreed at June 02, 2011 03:37 AM (ENKCw)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 03:39 AM (i6RpT)
But you know it has to be a slow news day when F&F is reduced to covering dickaquidic.
So now I can go rustle up some breakfast.
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 03:45 AM (M9Ie6)
Without addressing fraud and pork, the post office is actually one of the few institutions I support in government. I mean, there is an actual clause for it. Now, if we amend the Constitution to yank out Congressional oversight and taxpayer subsidy, then I'm open to debating further subsidy. As it stands now though, support for it is still a legitimate and, perhaps, wholly endorsable position.
Now if they really want to save money, flush the DoEd first. That'd be infinitely more productive.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 02, 2011 03:53 AM (1yViP)
In the article he goes off on the double standards applied to conservatives vs libs.
Posted by: GnuBreed at June 02, 2011 03:53 AM (ENKCw)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 02, 2011 03:58 AM (qsodE)
Ok, so everybody knows about Weiner's weiner. What happens now?
Bill O'Reilly has called for the FBI to investigate Weiner's claim that he has been hacked. He argues it is a case of national security because if a hacker has got into Weiner's blackberry then all of the congress is in danger of it happening to them. So with or without Weiner's permission they should investigate since Weiner is shouting to the world he was hacked. O'Reilly says it would take the FBI about 20 minutes to find out if its true. And the FBI should tell the public what they find since the taxpayers are paying for the investigation. If only there was a drumbeat from the MFM, maybe the FBI would be forced to do it. Of course the Democrats know Weiner is full of shit and would argue against it.
Posted by: Case at June 02, 2011 04:01 AM (0K+Kw)
Posted by: Batty Old Lady at June 02, 2011 04:01 AM (Bt1c6)
Yeah I'm aware of the Constitutional clause which is why I mentioned the Constitution. There is also a law passed by Congress and signed by the President (making it the law of the land too) that the USPS be self sustaining and financing.
Without reform (which includes tearing up the fat union contract imho) it will become another endless sinkhole. I get your point but the solution does not have to be another perpetual bailout of a failing business plan.
To quote Monty, we are BROKE.
Posted by: GnuBreed at June 02, 2011 04:03 AM (ENKCw)
Posted by: El Kilo at June 02, 2011 04:08 AM (le5qc)
I agree. I think Weiner is going for the "I freak out the Normals" route. Probably effective with his base, provided his wife shows up soon at his side so they all can tell themselves it's okay.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 02, 2011 04:10 AM (TpXEI)
And the first headline within the group is the New York Post's, with Porn Pal Craved Pol!
Thanks, Ace, for the yeoman's work you have been doing.
Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at June 02, 2011 04:11 AM (4sQwu)
Oh, I'm with you on the Monty DOOM and reform. Eventually it will be "fixed" along with everything else. Politicians lie; numbers don't. Numbers will win. They are dispassionate little bastards.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 02, 2011 04:12 AM (1yViP)
Democrats doing something productive? At this time? Can I have what you're smoking/drinking/shooting up?
Posted by: John P. Squibob at June 02, 2011 04:13 AM (GnEA7)
Posted by: Annie Coulter at June 02, 2011 04:15 AM (Nk2zK)
A quick and easy PO reform would be opt in/out of junk mail. There are probably numerous dust gathering studies showing the relationship between 3rd class mail (?) and cost of service.
With the proliferation of email, just how effective as a sales tool is this service, and should taxpayers continue subsidizing this relic from the good old days?
Posted by: Fish the Impaler at June 02, 2011 04:15 AM (cwFVA)
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 07:26 AM (M9Ie6)
Bingo! And the double digit inflation of tuition will end as well. What the hell do people think will happen when something is isolated from market forces? Are there people in congress who really believe that government interference in education has been beneficial?
That last question was rhetorical. I know all too well that our congress is filled with scum whose only goal is to fatten their wallets and bang coeds.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 02, 2011 04:18 AM (LH6ir)
Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at June 02, 2011 04:18 AM (NtTkA)
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 02, 2011 04:19 AM (DPM1U)
Liddy Dole reports life has become more tolerable now that she no longer suffers the 3AM pole poke.
Posted by: Fish the Impaler at June 02, 2011 04:24 AM (cwFVA)
Ok, so everybody knows about Weiner's weiner. What happens now?
Well, there are no hard and fast rules in a situation like this. Worst case, they erect a monument.
Posted by: Chariots of Toast at June 02, 2011 04:24 AM (tk5O7)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 02, 2011 08:18 AM (LH6ir)
Or housing. Or nutrition. Or jobs.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 02, 2011 04:25 AM (1fanL)
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 02, 2011 07:53 AM (1yViP)
Yes, and if congress hadn't allowed the post office to morph into a damned convenience store, maybe it wouldn't be tens of billions of dollars in the hole. The constitution says that the government can establish post offices and postal roads. It didn't say that it could sell packaging materials, compete (really badly) with the private sector's package services, take passport photos, enter into contracts with FedEx, etc.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 02, 2011 04:25 AM (LH6ir)
Posted by: Noo Yawk Noo Yawk at June 02, 2011 04:26 AM (Nk2zK)
Or housing. Or nutrition. Or jobs.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 02, 2011 08:25 AM (1fanL)
Don't stop; you're on a roll!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 02, 2011 04:27 AM (LH6ir)
He retracts it? I'm sure he's wracked with guilt. Probably has to slip in the back door to avoid unwanted attention. Might have to give the wife a pearl necklace to smooth things over. Maybe even lose an erection.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 02, 2011 04:28 AM (1fanL)
If Romney is the candidate, I will stay home.
Fuck you if you don't like that.
One statist is the same as another.
Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at June 02, 2011 04:30 AM (lgw0N)
Posted by: Noo Yawk Noo Yawk at June 02, 2011 08:26 AM (Nk2zK)
LEAVE US ALONE!
Posted by: curiously dense at June 02, 2011 04:30 AM (LH6ir)
Posted by: Some dope at June 02, 2011 04:33 AM (Nk2zK)
Posted by: backhoe at June 02, 2011 04:36 AM (0bk6W)
"Wiener will win his next race in NY handily."
Maybe The Rents To Damn High guy will run against him.
Posted by: Case at June 02, 2011 04:38 AM (0K+Kw)
Morning, all!
I wonder if the TX M&Ms would fill the rest of us in on this story over at Big Peace:
Texas Governor Faces Unexpected Moment of Truth on Immigration
...This leads us back to the special session. HB 9 – a bill that effectively mirrors HB 12 – has been filed by a Republican State Rep. With no need for a super majority, the odds of such a bill passing will go up exponentially. Only one thing needs to happen in order for the vote to be brought to the floor; Governor Rick Perry must add it to the list of items to consider.
On one hand, Perry has said a bill similar to the one in Arizona “would not be right for Texas.” On the other hand, he has said dealing with the issue of sanctuary cities is an “emergency” and a “priority.” To remain true to his word, Perry must allow HB 9 to be voted on before the special session ends after 30 days...
I don't know enough about the situation in TX or the intricacies of the bill in question to say if it's good or bad legislation. What do our Texas M&Ms think? And what do you think Gov Perry will do, especially in light of all the chatter about a potential Presidential run?
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 04:41 AM (4df7R)
Weekly unemployment numbers are out, and it's down by 6,000 to 422,000. About 9,000 MORE than predicted.
How's that maliase working for you?
Double dip? Sure I like ice cream.
Posted by: todler at June 02, 2011 04:43 AM (fPOY0)
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 08:44 AM (M9Ie6)
Austin most certainly is.
Posted by: Rodent Liberation Front at June 02, 2011 04:51 AM (lgw0N)
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 04:52 AM (M9Ie6)
Does TX have any sanctuary cities?
From Sanctuarycities . info, it appears the following are sanctuary cities in Tejas:
Austin, Texas
Baytown, Texas
Brownsville, Texas
Channelview, Texas
Denton, Texas
Dallas, Texas
El Cenizo, Texas
Ft. Worth, Texas
Houston, Texas (1992)
Katy, Texas
Laredo, Texas
League City, Texas (added 11/16/08 - See Below)
Mcallen, Texas
Port Arthur, Texas
San Antonio, Texas
Posted by: Chariots of Toast at June 02, 2011 04:53 AM (tk5O7)
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 04:53 AM (k1rwm)
New U.S. claims for unemployment benefits fell less than expected last week, according to a government report on Thursday that could add to fears the labor market recovery has taken a step back, while nonfarm productivity growth was a touch faster than previously estimated in the first quarter.
Initial claims for state unemployment benefits slipped 6,000 to a seasonally adjusted 422,000, the Labor Department said. The prior weeks figure was revised up to 428,000.
More unexpected bad economic news comrades. Have no fear, Recovery Summer II or QE3 will fix everything!
Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 02, 2011 04:54 AM (1Jaio)
Regarding the sanctuary cities in Texas- believe 6 consecutive police fatalities in Houston have come at the hands of illegal aliens...whoops, I mean undocumented guest workers. The last one happened a few days ago.
Posted by: Chariots of Toast at June 02, 2011 04:55 AM (tk5O7)
I presume there will be more job number manipulations as the election comes closer.
Hell, the manipulations never stopped. When I went into the closing attorney's office to close my SBA loan a few months ago, he had taken it upon himself to draft up a letter for me to sign and send to The JEF that somehow my purchase of an existing business had magically "created or saved" 6 jobs that were already employed and were going to remain employed regardless of who bought it.
When the shit hits the fan, the lawyers need to be the first to go.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 02, 2011 04:56 AM (A/oSU)
She sure is. One of her first appointments after assuming office was for a hard hitting labor lawyer who specializes in busting union thug assholes. The intent was to beat up on Obama's labor board trying to block the Boeing factory in SC.
And no, you guys can't have her for a warm spit job like VP. We need to keep her to fight the ex-Dems in the SC Senate who placed an R after their name so they can stay in office.
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 04:56 AM (M9Ie6)
TX Gov. Perry's office is presently taking a public poll regarding Texas HB 1937 that the House passed unanimously before he sabotaged backstage prior to the Senate vote, buckling to Obama's threats.
Telephone
Information and Referral Hotline [for Texas callers] :
(800) 843-5789
Citizen's Opinion Hotline [for Texas callers] :
(800) 252-9600
Information and Referral and Opinion Hotline [for Austin, Texas and out-of-state callers] :
(512) 463-1782
Office of the Governor Main Switchboard [office hours are 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. CST] :
(512) 463-2000
Citizen's Assistance Telecommunications Device
If you are using a telecommunication device for the deaf (TDD),
call 711 to reach Relay Texas
Office of the Governor Fax:
(512) 463-1849
Posted by: maverick muse at June 02, 2011 04:58 AM (H+LJc)
Did Rep Weiner Violate House Rules?
According to the House regulations, any Member “must immediately report any unauthorized access or unusual system activities to the House Information Resources Security Office (202-226-644
. HIR will investigate any breaches of the Internet security system.”
Link is to Big Government.
According to the analysis at the story this rule would apply to Weinergate, but I'm not so sure. This rule seems to apply to government EQUIPMENT, which makes total sense to me. But if Weiner was posting from his personal computer and/or Blackberry, does it still apply? For the sake of safety and security, the rational choice would be to follow the House Rules procedures even if federal equipment was not involved in the actual incident. But I don't know that that means he broke any rules if personal equipment (no pun intended, though richly deserved) was used.
Also, since things like Twitter and Facebook exist on the web, accessible from any internet-capable device, does the same rule apply?
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 04:59 AM (4df7R)
No American president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt has won a second term in office when the unemployment rate on Election Day topped 7.2 percent.
Seventeen months before the next election, it is increasingly clear that President Obama must defy that trend to keep his job.
The NY Slimes is starting to worry that the bad economic news might ruin Barry's chances of re-election. Screw the people who have been out of work for years the only concern is how it will affect poor widdle Barry
Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 02, 2011 04:59 AM (1Jaio)
Which is why I think picking up the MI SEN seat will be a longshot for us - that will probably play very well there
Posted by: chemjeff at June 02, 2011 05:00 AM (RTsZb)
she is amazing. One of my friends was complaining that she is allowing internet business to come there and not have to collect tax and his company with this new CA tax is seriously thinking of going there and he was complaining about "no level playing field and the government has to get involved and make a federal law". I finally said "look asshole, if she doesn't put out the hospitality your company is leaving the country with your job, or haven't you realized that yet?" (I have no patience today, none, nada)
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 05:00 AM (k1rwm)
Perry is a political weasel, IMHO. Granted, he has stuck his finger in the air to measure the winds and responds reasonably well, but he's not all that much of a leader when it comes down to it. IOW he's a lot of talk and a few cattle. He just happens to be in a state that is holding conservative and which hasn't had to impose a sales tax. The business climate has remained pretty constant because of the state's diversity in industry. He's smart enough not to have killed any golden geese.
Perry is pretty weak on illegal immigration but the constituency is heavily in favor of enforcing the borders and against amnesty. Perry, the big business advocate, isn't. He dances pretty well on the topic to keep his options open. What'll he do? Who knows. He say a lot and then wait. Go to NumbersUSA.com to get the skinny on his illegal immigration/sovereignty/amnesty positions.
I'm not a fan of his but, relatively, he's better than many. Right now, he's good enough. I'd prefer another but we don't have one. I'd take Palin, Bachmann, Bolton, West or Cain over Perry. Probably.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 02, 2011 05:01 AM (1yViP)
In Houston today, a policeman is being buried after been hit and killed by a drunk illegal immigrant who had been deported twice already. .236 blood test and cocaine in his pocket. On top of that, he is a ms- 13 gang memeber. Yep, the border is secure, Mr President.
Posted by: Just Sam at June 02, 2011 05:01 AM (pKDDq)
Yep gotta have those illegal workers. Firefighters need work too.
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 05:04 AM (M9Ie6)
Posted by: Sexy corsets at June 02, 2011 05:04 AM (zRM7G)
Ben *does* realize Hatch is a senator, not a representative, right?
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 05:05 AM (6fER6)
Posted by: EricPWJohnson at June 02, 2011 05:07 AM (LFKqv)
Despite the fact that the American people lost $14 billion on the auto bailout, even though we were "promised" (always gotta put that in quotes when talking about political promises) that we'd actually make some money on the deal. Yeah. Right.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 05:07 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: dagny at June 02, 2011 05:07 AM (N6QHU)
It will make my day when O'Reilly tweets his weiner pic to some coed.
Oh, wait, I forgot, he doesn't have a weiner.
Posted by: Dastardly Dan at June 02, 2011 05:07 AM (56hk3)
Posted by: Lorena Bobbitt at June 02, 2011 05:08 AM (BQw5W)
NPR is running with a fairly skeptical piece on Teh Weiner on the 6am news!!
Mentions that he has not been convincing in his answers (plays answer to CNN's Blitzer) and that he has not sought any LE involvement.
Dayum! NPR is now less than a week behind... they's gaining on us boys!
Posted by: sherlock at June 02, 2011 05:08 AM (thr9V)
Blackberry's Parent company also denied rumors that they were revisiting plans to include 3x to 8x opitcal zooms in their nexgen releases in 2012
Posted by: EricPWJohnson at June 02, 2011 05:08 AM (LFKqv)
Posted by: No Whining at June 02, 2011 08:59 AM (/h8IG)
I politely declined and walked out with my loan, while suppressing my strong desire to vehemently decline and point out the absurdity of the "saved or created" concept especially with regards to my situation.
Didn't know if my bank's loan officer was a JEF fan or not and he was present. I think it was safe to assume the fucking lawyer was. Loan Officer probably was too because he wasn't the most competent one I've ever dealt with.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 02, 2011 05:09 AM (A/oSU)
Posted by: Ruth at June 02, 2011 05:09 AM (GJHX1)
Chris Plante is funny as hell. Ace would enjoy this.
Posted by: dagny at June 02, 2011 05:11 AM (N6QHU)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 05:11 AM (i6RpT)
Tell your friend that she actually fought against that deal with Amazon. That was one of the few things she has done that I disagreed with.
Also tell your friend that "internet" business is not being "allowed" to come here. What they are doing is passing a bill that guarantees that SC will follow the supreme court ruling that out of State sales by companies that have no "buisness presence" in SC will not be subject to SC sales tax. (which has gotten extremely high lately)
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 05:11 AM (M9Ie6)
Did anyone see Greg Gutfeld "hat tip" Drew & Ace of Spades blog last night? He was mentioned in the Gregalogue.
if you get me the link i'll put it up in the side bar
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 05:11 AM (wuv1c)
Maybe Gutfeld is a secret moron? Maybe I'm Gutfeld? Are you Gutfeld?
Are you trying to impersonate me? You, sir, are worse than Hitler!!!
Posted by: The Real Greg Gutfeld at June 02, 2011 05:12 AM (RTsZb)
Posted by: Ruth at June 02, 2011 05:12 AM (GJHX1)
Chris Plante is funny as hell. Ace would enjoy this.
Posted by: dagny at June 02, 2011 09:11 AM (N6QHU)
All he has to do to listen to him is download the WMAL app to his Iphone or blackberry...That's what I did.
Posted by: Hedgehog at June 02, 2011 05:13 AM (Rn2kl)
RE: Ben's sidebar piece about Coldplay supporting the Palestinians. I was struck by this line:
Keep that in mind when you buy their music.
All I could think was, "People actually buy Coldplay? Being forced to hear them on the radio isn't enough?"
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 05:13 AM (4df7R)
RE: Orrin Hatch getting primaried:
Ben *does* realize Hatch is a senator, not a representative, right?
Fixed.
Sorry, it's early here. Same logic applies, there are Senate seats that are guaranteed Republican and Democrat. Utah falls into that category.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 05:14 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 09:11 AM (i6RpT)
I told him to only read the comments.
Posted by: Andrew Breitbart at June 02, 2011 05:15 AM (4df7R)
Passed yesterday 327-93
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 02, 2011 05:16 AM (8B3iX)
RE: Ben's sidebar piece about Coldplay supporting the Palestinians. I was struck by this line:
Keep that in mind when you buy their music.
All I could think was, "People actually buy Coldplay? Being forced to hear them on the radio isn't enough?"
I feel the same way. I remember when their first single came out, i think it was "Trouble", all I could think of was , "wow is this band trying to rip off radiohead".
I was actually amazed at the commercial success they've had since they're nothing but a cheap, terrible radiohead tribute band.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 05:17 AM (wuv1c)
Here's the link to the Chris Plante show. He's my favorite host. Today: Weinergate
http://tinyurl.com/6hll7o
Posted by: dagny at June 02, 2011 05:19 AM (N6QHU)
And speaking of illegals who come here to do those jobs that Americans just will not do
That liberal meme kills me - "doing the jobs Americans won't do". They're such fucking heroes. If they could get away with it, they'd have America the Beautiful playing in the background while they said it.
It's such bullshit.
In three months, I get Americans of all ages coming in to me asking if I'm hiring for a minimum wage job and they're willing to to even the most menial task for whatever hours I'm willing to give.
If we didn't have millions of illegals here sucking up the menial labor for less than minimum wage, our unemployment would drop significantly. Americans seem to be re-learning the intent of minimum wage jobs - entry level employment opportunities or supplemental income instead of this warped concept of a minimum wage job being a career where you can support a family and suck Uncle Sam's hind tit.
Well, at least I like to thinkk Americans are re-learning this.
I definitely know the two legal immigrants working for me aren't the least bit happy about illegal immigrants. I just make sure to educate them on the politics of it.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 02, 2011 05:19 AM (A/oSU)
Legal immigrants and ex smokers have a lot in common.
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 05:21 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 05:21 AM (k1rwm)
Obama can weep. FDR certainly didn't bail-out globalist banks or corporations at US citizen taxpayer expense. Contrary to GWB precedent and Obama augmented spending habits, whatever taxfunds were spent during the FDR administration were first vetted through the congressional legislative open debate and open vote process within a real budget, and directed into realized, solid public works projects constructed and coordinated specifically with employed hard working US civilians.
It is far too late for Obama to promise to behave responsibly towards America. It isn't just "Obama" -- it's the entire nation's leadership that lack credibility.
Our congressman recently sent a survey asking, "Congress should fully fund programs to oppose global warming even if it costs Americans jobs." "Congress should pass a constitutional amendment to ban abortion." -- Gee. how about depriving tax funds that program dogma/anti-dogma propaganda, and as a result cut spending while depriving tax funds to extraneous wild geese policies.
Posted by: maverick muse at June 02, 2011 05:22 AM (H+LJc)
Gilad Schalit's kidnappers are 'dying in unfortunate accidents' (link to Jpost)
Terrorists in Gaza who had links to the 2006 abduction of IDF soldier Gilad Schalit are "dying in unfortunate accidents," Homeland Security Minister Matan Vilnai said in Jerusalem on Wednesday.
The comments appear to be the first major hint by a public official that Israel is systematically targeting Schalit's abductors
...
"Everyone who was involved in the kidnapping won't need to worry about an old age home. They won't get there."
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 05:23 AM (4df7R)
Schumer to Jewish Audience: Arabs and Palestinians ‘Don’t Believe There Should Be An Israel’
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 02, 2011 05:23 AM (9hSKh)
Thanks MWR, that's going in the sidebar.
You have to love the Mossad's no nonsense assassination policy.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 05:24 AM (wuv1c)
“My advice would be to come clean and clear it up. Again, perhaps he's trying, but I know there's a lot of explaining going on but without a lot of clarity.
And again, the American people are right in saying that they donÂ’t have tolerance for this repeated kind of activity going on surrounding their elected leaders.
Think about his wife — I mean, I'm really saddened for his wife, and I think they've only been married a short time."
I know his comments are politically motivated but it's interesting that he's taking such a hard-line (for an R) on this.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 02, 2011 05:24 AM (8B3iX)
One of their recent hits was so obviously copied from U2 that I was a little surprised that Bono didn't say something.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 02, 2011 05:25 AM (LH6ir)
__________
Yeah. Alan Colmes was spouting that nonsense on my TV box yesterday.
My snazzy new TV has a V-Chip to keep me save from violence. What it *needs* is a C-Chip to keep me safe from Alan Colmes. Of course, I would also expect it to work on Bob Beckel, too...
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 05:26 AM (6fER6)
Posted by: JackStraw at June 02, 2011 05:26 AM (TMB3S)
I heard the interview this morning and I was disappointed that Cantor wasn't more critical. He made general comments, but refrained from hammering Weiner. It was too much of the "Fraternal Order of Sleazebags and Cocksuckers"* looking out for each other.
*United States Congress
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 02, 2011 05:28 AM (LH6ir)
You have to love the Mossad's no nonsense assassination policy.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 09:24 AM (wuv1c)
Heh, my favorite part of the article (besides the bad ass-ness) is that he delivered the comments at a high school. That's just all kinds of awesome right there.
(I should have hat tipped Weasel Zippers for that story, btw. I hate when I forget!)
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 05:28 AM (4df7R)
I know his comments are politically motivated but it's interesting that he's taking such a hard-line (for an R) on this.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 02, 2011 09:24 AM (8B3iX)
Devin Nunes (CA) was on batchelor last night and he was both embarrassed as a member of congress and disgusted. His state is a shambles. the smelt is ruing their fertile valley, and he has to answer questions about some sophomoric jackass in New York who has a lot of time on his hands and no fear of not getting re elected a seventh time. It was at that moment that I had the feeling that there is way more to this to come.
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 05:29 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: glowing blue meat at June 02, 2011 05:29 AM (K/USr)
________
You say that as if it were a bad thing.
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 05:29 AM (6fER6)
Obama avoided the "new depression"? Ha. Heh. Haha. Hahaha-heh. Bwahahahahahahahaha!
Yeah I am sure the legions of unemployed, people that have lost their homes or can't afford a new one, are underwater on their mortgages, can't put their kids in college, have lost their retirement saving and are working in Walmart, have given up completely and are working two jobs to make ends meet agree.
Oh and almost forgot; all you Hope n' Change youngsters trying to find summer jobs; how's that working out for ya?
At this point even the midget troll Reich is pig-piling on.
Morning MarketBeat: Jitters Rise Ahead of FridayÂ’s Jobs News
Posted by: Marcus at June 02, 2011 05:31 AM (lsnT3)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 05:32 AM (i6RpT)
33 Gnu - from your link
this alone should sink the corruptocrat party - but the media won't report.
Americans still seethe about the Wall Street meltdown of 2008. But the “fat-cat bankers,” in fact, were players in a far larger fraud made possible by liberal executives at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Bill Clinton’s appointees and insider friends such as Franklin Raines, Jim Johnson, Jamie Gorelick, and Robert Rubin made millions, while the agencies and banks they oversaw lost billions.
Posted by: Lemon Kitten at June 02, 2011 05:33 AM (0fzsA)
Posted by: An Observation at June 02, 2011 05:35 AM (ylhEn)
Also noticed that places like Sears are completely turning their lights out at night.
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 05:36 AM (k1rwm)
just found in the ONT:
http://tinyurl.com/43g2wun
I'll be back in a moment.
Posted by: jcjimi at June 02, 2011 05:36 AM (PBwG0)
Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at June 02, 2011 05:37 AM (agD4m)
Chicago, Chicago, Chicago. Just what kind of heat closed the North Avenue beach on Memorial Day? The kind that comes from the sun, or the kind that comes from a gun?
(h/t Five Feet of Fury)
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 05:39 AM (4df7R)
As PoP just pointed out, Schumer can't be pro-Israel while simultaneously being Obama's fluffer.
Schumer is publicly pro-Israel because it gets him votes from my idiot co-religionists on the upper west side of Manhattan, Park Slope in Brooklyn, and Westchester County. But he won't do anything of substance, because that might jeopardize his ability to be Obama's front-man in the Senate.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 02, 2011 05:41 AM (LH6ir)
Posted by: toby928™ at June 02, 2011 07:27 AM (GTbGH)
---------------------------------------------------------------
And the 140 character limit makes everyone sound Asian.
Posted by: David at June 02, 2011 05:41 AM (u2rWt)
Decreased Less Than Forecast
~Bloomberg
Hey, they finally caught on to the running joke that everything is unexpected.
Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at June 02, 2011 05:42 AM (agD4m)
Posted by: jcjimi at June 02, 2011 05:44 AM (PBwG0)
My only regret is that we will have two green senators and our senior senator is a bit of a dim bulb.
Orrin seems like a nice person, but he really should retire. He has been in DC for far too long and has lost perspective on what his constituents want to see done.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 05:49 AM (pW2o8)
___________
Gutfeld? Haven't you noticed that TV's Andy Levy has been AWOL since Weinergate broke? Clearly, he's spending his time 24x7 refreshing Ace's twitter feed.
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 05:50 AM (6fER6)
Posted by: Temper Tantrum at June 02, 2011 05:51 AM (bAL0J)
I gotta agree with you there. Everyone seems to slip a few notches in both civility and intelligence on Twitter. Far too many tweets seem to be taunts and insults.
I have an account for following some people, but I don't post.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 05:51 AM (pW2o8)
What are you kidding? Its not just Schumer. The overwhelming majority of the American Jewish community has that same ability to embrace mutually exclusive concepts. Par for the course. Schumer will lie to his Jewish audience, then suck up to his hard lefty pro-Pali audience. Both sides will lap it up.
Posted by: glowing blue meat at June 02, 2011 05:52 AM (K/USr)
Well, that part wasn't, but the rest was critical for a Republican. He said that Weiner has a responsibility to get the facts straight, needs to come clean, Americans are sick of elected officials being involved in scandals, and he's sorry for Huma. No, that isn't equal to "arrest the evil creep" or anything else that we would say, but it is strong for a Republican.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 02, 2011 05:54 AM (8B3iX)
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 05:54 AM (pW2o8)
Posted by: Jean at June 02, 2011 05:55 AM (WkuV6)
___________
Maybe, but they had better comics than the DesNews, which has always been *my* criterion of newspaper fitness.
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 05:59 AM (6fER6)
Well, I was talking about Schumer because that was the topic at hand.
The problem for me is that a fair number of Jews in America are hard-left and have sympathy for the psychotic death-cult that some people call "palestinians."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 02, 2011 05:59 AM (LH6ir)
Posted by: Serious Cat at June 02, 2011 05:59 AM (bAySe)
Posted by: Jean at June 02, 2011 09:55 AM (WkuV6)
HAH! Suck it, Bammy. You ain't the Messiah anymore.
I think henceforth all of Obama's calls for campaign donations should be made in terms of Chevy Volts. Like, "I want my campaign committee to raise 1500 Chevy Volts for me by the end of June!"
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 06:00 AM (4df7R)
saw Cantor on F&F. He was treading very lightly. He seems like a very likable guy and is probably a good Rep. Heck, I'd take him in a heartbeat. My guy is invisible. But Cantor strikes me as a bit on the meek side to be a good Maj. Leader.
I'm withholding judgment on him until his squishy boss Boehner gets booted from the Speakership. He's been awful, and I think Cantor feels obligated not to go where Cryin John doesn't want to go.
Posted by: glowing blue meat at June 02, 2011 06:00 AM (K/USr)
I seriously expect John Boehner to come out soon saying Rep. Weiner is a fine man and that this is all a distraction.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 02, 2011 06:01 AM (TpXEI)
I think henceforth all of Obama's calls for campaign donations should be made in terms of Chevy Volts. Like, "I want my campaign committee to raise sell 1500 Chevy Volts for me by the end of June!"
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 10:00 AM (4df7R)
FIFM.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 06:02 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 02, 2011 06:03 AM (8B3iX)
Also noticed that places like Sears are completely turning their lights out at night.
At Petco the other night and noticed that they turned off half of their lights.
So every other light was on in the store. My eyes had to adjust once i was in there. I think it's a cost saving initiative
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 06:04 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: Totally Hawt Honey Badger at June 02, 2011 06:05 AM (GvYeG)
Savage was talking about it last night. His callers are the best. They sent him in this direction and in this direction.
Savage is well educated on all of this and you could tell that he was shocked by what his listeners were telling him and trying to learn as much as he could from them.
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 06:06 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: Totally Hawt Honey Badger at June 02, 2011 06:06 AM (GvYeG)
Who gives a shit about Huma? I don't. Seriously.
Yeah marrying a prominent Democratic politician is just asking for trouble.
They all have affairs or are involved in shady dealings.
She's Hillary's aide (or as hillary affectionally calls her, "knuckles"), Huma has not excuse for not knowing what she was getting into.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 06:07 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: Ruth at June 02, 2011 06:07 AM (GJHX1)
did he really say that he is protecting some one. so who is it?
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 06:08 AM (k1rwm)
Via Patrick Poole at the PJ Tatler:
BREAKING: Somali Suicide Bomber was from Minneapolis
Abdirahman Warsame at Terror Free Somalia informed us late last night that messages appearing on known al-Shabaab websites indicate that a suicide bomber who carried out on attack on AMISOM forces in Mogadishu on Monday was a Somali-American from the Minneapolis area. A twenty-two minute audio was posted on the Somali Memo website (article and audio have since disappeared) that included a segment of an English-speaking Somali speaker — apparently the suicide bomber — who encourages Muslims in the West to “die for their religion.”
More at the link.
As Poole notes:
How long before one of these American suicide bombers will return home and kill Americans?
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 06:09 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 06:09 AM (i6RpT)
So it sounds better in print then?
I'm withholding judgment on him until his squishy boss Boehner gets booted from the Speakership. He's been awful, and I think Cantor feels obligated not to go where Cryin John doesn't want to go.
Cantor is more interested in appearing better (and more conservative) than Boehner so that he becomes Speaker next time. He's just biding his time.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 02, 2011 06:10 AM (8B3iX)
By the way if you ever wanted proof of the saying "God gave men two heads, but only enough blood for one at a time" Weinergate is it.
Posted by: An Observation at June 02, 2011 06:11 AM (ylhEn)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 06:11 AM (i6RpT)
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 06:13 AM (k1rwm)
Well, it's important to have priorities! ;-)
I find the Strib to be really myopic and left-leaning, like many big city newspapers. They seem hostile to Utah County and actively mocking of the church. And their readers, judging from the letters and comments, seem to have huge chips on their shoulders. One wonders why someone would choose to live in Utah if they can't tolerate traditional family values and conservative politics.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 06:14 AM (pW2o8)
Aaaaaand, big government (not) to the rescue again:
Link to the PJ Tatler.
Even more ridiculuos, they not only couldn't save him, they also didn't have the proper licensing to retrieve the body. An "onlooker" had to do it:
[The deceased's] body was recovered by an off-duty nurse who swam out 50 yards to get him.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 06:14 AM (4df7R)
Judaism uses guilt in the highest degree among the major Western sub-cultures, so it generates the greatest percentage of self-hating leftists
There is great parable about the Jewish Mother.
I will edit it to the bare bones.
A jewish mother buys her son two sweaters for his birthday. After opening up them up and taking them out of the gift boxes the mother says, "Why don't you go put one on".
The boy goes upstairs and puts on one of the two sweaters and comes downstairs to show his family.
The mother looks at him and says, "What? You don't like the other sweater?"
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 06:14 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: Jean at June 02, 2011 06:16 AM (WkuV6)
paid for the propaganda (Think Progress), that whitewashed the whole deal.
Posted by: Randolph Duke at June 02, 2011 06:16 AM (YGNmh)
Posted by: Xmas at June 02, 2011 06:17 AM (f3VAX)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 06:17 AM (i6RpT)
@137 - I am one of those who is barely hanging on. I am close to a year unemployed, except for a small freelance writing gig that has basically just given me something to put on my resume. I was thrilled to get an interview this week for a job that would pay a third of what I made in my last fulltime job, and would not be enough for me to keep my house but would be enough for me to get a smaller one (assuming I can sell the one I am in now, which is not sure thing.) I have one next week for a job in a completely different field, at a higher salary, but it would be an hour commute for me. I have been doing temp jobs in my town but they don't last long and barely pay for my groceries. My teenage son can't find even a part-time job and still doesn't have a summer job. He is starting college in the fall and I still don't know how I am going to pay for it.
This economy blows. I have tons of friends with kids that just graduated from college, and none of them have jobs. I have more than a few friends whose kids are going to community college this fall because that's all they can afford. This is in what used to be an affluent suburb of Philadelphia, one of the "collar counties" that went for Obama in 2008. I can't wait to see how bad his ass is going to get kicked here next year.
Posted by: rockmom at June 02, 2011 06:21 AM (mBDmf)
WTF? Seriously, W.T.F.!
This nation is turning batshit insane.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 02, 2011 06:21 AM (1yViP)
Posted by: Totally Hawt Honey Badger at June 02, 2011 06:23 AM (GvYeG)
They had that on F&F this morning and they interviewed a city official. The sue-happy natives of CA got what they asked for. City ordinances forbid the guys from going in for rescue w/o training because of people "lawyering up".
Whereas most States have good samaritan laws, CA has "lawyer up" laws.
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 06:23 AM (M9Ie6)
If they had never sexted before, you have to feel bad for her. If she was sexting a married man, she gets no sympathy from me.
You fuck with a married man, you're a whore.
Posted by: momma at June 02, 2011 06:24 AM (nWikJ)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 06:25 AM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 06:25 AM (M9Ie6)
Posted by: rdbrewer at June 02, 2011 06:26 AM (EqPv+)
Once upon a time, I'd probably have said, "You (and he) have to find a way." Not anymore.
Piling up debt for an education at an inflated price in this poor economy doesn't seem wise. I'd change plans and delay entry even if the prospect of getting back into the groove of school is difficult for him. It's unfortunate but the education bubble has been brewing for some time. Many degrees are over-rated. Plus, if the money isn't there, it isn't there. Unlike Obama, we can't print money.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 02, 2011 06:29 AM (1yViP)
#184
One wonders why someone would choose to live in Utah if they can't tolerate traditional family values and conservative politics.
In the past you could have said the same thing about Colorado, New Mexico, even Oregon and Washington State.
The libs intend to change all of your values.
Posted by: ABBO at June 02, 2011 06:30 AM (XEwY1)
Well that changes the dynamic a bit. I'm not for going to every possible length to save someone that committed.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 02, 2011 06:32 AM (1yViP)
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 10:14 AM (pW2o
It's "the liberal man's burden". Seriously. They think they are God's gift to humanity for their role to drag all of us troglodyte neanderthals into the 21st century. Same reason why liberals everywhere push for socialist ideas that the public has rejected over and over again.
Posted by: chemjeff at June 02, 2011 06:33 AM (czcue)
WTF? Seriously, W.T.F.!
This nation is turning has turned batshit insane.
Fixed. The election of Sir Barky O'Bummer was proof.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 02, 2011 06:34 AM (UOM48)
If we're going to loan money to people to go to college, if you want it paid back by them instead of YOU, then require the school - ANY & ALL schools - to graduate a minimum % of its students. THAT would solve your default problem and save us money.
If you want young people to be employed after college so they can pay those loans back, then don't spend govt money to have them get degrees in medieval French poetry or film studies or recreation management or some other bullsh-t major.
It ain't hard, people.
Posted by: JEA at June 02, 2011 06:35 AM (ycm4Q)
Everyone, everyone. In the midst of all the drama surrounding Dickaquiddick, our boned economy, and Israel's lone voice of sanity in the world, it's easy to lose track of other important stories. Things that really deserve the media attention currently being poured over Weiner's weiner.
That's why I bring you the sad news that Shaquille O'Neal is planning to retire from the NBA after 19 seasons lugging his lumbering body across a variety of franchises. The Big Diesel will Diesel no more.
Mourn as you feel necessary.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 06:36 AM (4df7R)
It makes sense if you look at liberals as if they were locusts. They live in an area for a while, destroy it, then move on to greener pastures. When they move, they take with them all the destructive habits, and worldviews they just used to wreck the place they were just in. They aren't any different in that regard to illegal aliens, they aren't interested in assimilating into the established culture of the community they've moved to, they want that community to accommodate them.
Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at June 02, 2011 06:37 AM (6IReR)
"Here lies another once great nation and people who confused good intentions for good ideas"
Posted by: Shiggz at June 02, 2011 06:37 AM (mLAWK)
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 10:23 AM (M9Ie6)
Yes, and the guy who died likely approved of them. Stupidity always rewards itself.
Posted by: maddogg at June 02, 2011 06:37 AM (OlN4e)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 06:38 AM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Shiggz at June 02, 2011 10:37 AM (mLAWK)
Good intentions pave the road to Hell.
Posted by: maddogg at June 02, 2011 06:39 AM (OlN4e)
Can't argue with that. I'd have offered "delusional" at the time, but upon reflection, insane is truer.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 02, 2011 06:39 AM (1yViP)
If we're going to loan money to people to go to college, if you want it paid back by them instead of YOU, then require the school - ANY & ALL schools - to graduate a minimum % of its students. THAT would solve your default problem and save us money.
Umm no. It will only lead to more students getting worthless degrees because they are being pushed out the door by the university. Students will say "hmm well I could get a science degree, which I kinda like, but I'd have to take all these hard pre-requisite classes, or I could go over here to the humanities department, which I also kinda like, where all I have to do to get a degree is show up and have a pulse.... yup it's a Medieval Lit degree for me!"
Posted by: chemjeff at June 02, 2011 06:39 AM (czcue)
If we're going to loan money to people to go to college, if you want it paid back by them instead of YOU, then require the school - ANY & ALL schools - to graduate a minimum % of its students. THAT would solve your default problem and save us money.
Unfortunately, it really wouldn't. While rational people would say, "That would force colleges to only accept those students who they feel will be successful," in actuality what would happen is colleges would simply lower their standards for passing. They may not put it in writing, but it WOULD be the default stance taken by most private and probably all public institutions of higher indoctrination learning.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 06:41 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 10:38 AM (i6RpT)
I get the impression Texasjew ain't suffering from any deep seated guilt or self loathing.
Posted by: maddogg at June 02, 2011 06:41 AM (OlN4e)
Posted by: Joanie (Oven Gloves) at June 02, 2011 06:42 AM (y/+eD)
Posted by: joncelli at June 02, 2011 06:43 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: sherlock at June 02, 2011 06:44 AM (LvQK2)
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at June 02, 2011 06:46 AM (jCQ+I)
Posted by: USA at June 02, 2011 06:46 AM (YZISw)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 06:46 AM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Jean at June 02, 2011 06:49 AM (WkuV6)
Posted by: Prof. Heinz Doofensmirtz at June 02, 2011 06:49 AM (3NcYU)
Seems a bit long. I'm thinking end of July would make for more trading.
Posted by: Dusty at June 02, 2011 06:50 AM (n3S/Z)
Posted by: JackStraw at June 02, 2011 06:52 AM (TMB3S)
WTF? Seriously, W.T.F.!
This nation is turning has turned batshit insane.
Fixed. The election of Sir Barky O'Bummer was proof.
Mark Steyn made an awesome point yesterday that i've been thinking about since I heard it.
He was talking about government regulations, specifically how in NYC the Health Inspectors were giving Starbuck's "A" on their inspection, but some group did a test and swabbed around those places and found traces of e coli, fecal matter, etc.
Steyn went on to make the point about how it's all worthless. Everything the government does.
Pre-911, the most restricted place in America was the passanger compartment on planes. You can't drink unless the stewardess give you alcohol, you can't smoke, you couldn't carry a knife, gun, or other weapon, you were free to get up, use your cell phone, etc etc etc.
Essnetially it is the most regulated place in this country. The regulations were there to protect us. They were in place to keep the passangers safe. The passangers were trading the government their personal freedoms while on a plane and in return the government was saying, "we'll take care of you while your on the plane".
Then on 9/11, what happened? The government, despite all its regulations and promises couldn't and didn't protect the passangers.
Only the passangers on Flight 93 who took their protection, security and future into their own hands prevents thousands of more deaths that day.
The government can't protect you. Only you can protect yourself and their regulations are making it harder for people to do so.
Steyn put it much more eloquently than I did, but the point stuck with me.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 06:55 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 06:55 AM (pW2o8)
Make sure the credits ARE transferable first.
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 06:55 AM (M9Ie6)
Huckabee changing his mind? I read that as he didn't think he could beat Obama before, but with the JEF dicking-up the economy, Huck thinks he might be able to now.
And he might, too. But he will have to beat Palin first. At least he will have the media on his side in that one - for a while. He will never get my vote.
Posted by: sherlock at June 02, 2011 06:56 AM (LvQK2)
This time, instead of "I don't know,” the Congressman told Maddow that it is possible that the photo was of him and had been “taken out of context.”
Bwahaha. What "context" could make that dic pic OK?
Posted by: Retread at June 02, 2011 06:57 AM (G+7cD)
I don't know where the "Catholic guilt" thing comes from. I've been a Church-going Catholic my whole life and I don't find my life mired in guilt.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 02, 2011 06:58 AM (TpXEI)
There is an old trite saying for that
During a crime when seconds count.....the police are minutes away.
Posted by: Vic at June 02, 2011 06:58 AM (M9Ie6)
Truly stupid law. The Postal Service has been losing money since the Pony Express. It was never intended to make a profit. Just ask me.
Posted by: William H. Russell at June 02, 2011 06:59 AM (gre5a)
Bwahaha. What "context" could make that dic pic OK?
Taken by Huma, sent to Hillary with note: "Okay if I just take a little peek?"
Posted by: sherlock at June 02, 2011 06:59 AM (LvQK2)
Sure, we lose money on each round of borrowin', but, um, we make it up in volume.
Posted by: President Hope-N-Change at June 02, 2011 07:00 AM (1yViP)
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 10:55 AM (pW2o
True, which works to your advantage as a parent. But only the cradle catholics, we converts somehow didn't internalize the guilt piece.
Posted by: dagny at June 02, 2011 07:00 AM (embeV)
The best way to get those required "prerequisite" courses out of the way is to take them at a local community college and when all are completed transfer the credits to the college from which you are seeking the degree.
Make sure the credits ARE transferable first.
Yeah, I wish i did this.
The first two years of college are almost a total waste depending on where you go.
It's a scam by the colleges. I could have finished my degree in two years if i didn't have to take pre-req's in subjects i wanted nothing to do with. People will say you need a broad education, but that's horse shit.
You go to college to get a job. Period. Instead, I had to pay the school to take courses in philosohpy, sociology and a shit load of other classes that I would never use in my life. That's not to say philosophy is a waste of time, but I can read it in my own free time. I don't want to have to pay someone to force me to read it.
The only reason colleges have non-elective courses if to make money. It's to keep kids their longer than they need to be.
Why four years? Who decided that 4 years was the necessary amount of time to get a degree? It's as arbitrary as 65 being the age of retirement. You should retire when you can't work anymore or are financially able to. You should graduate college when you complete all the course related to your specific major.
The further away I get from college, the more i hate the concept and what it actually stands for these days.
There is no such thing as a not for profit college. They are all in it to make money in some fashion or another. And I have no problem with people making money, but i hate it when they claim they're doing it for other reasons when they clearly aren't
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 07:02 AM (wuv1c)
I feel for you in your predicament. It's a really terrible world out there right now. I know so many people who are out of work, especially in the 45 and older set. It's scary.
Personally, I do not devalue a college education. It's been my experience that for jobs that require any amount of writing and editing, applicants with college degrees are on average superior in those skills. And, of course, for certain careers you absolutely have to have a college degree. I was lucky to be on scholarship - plus my dad worked an extra job to pay for room and board - but if I were looking at schools today I'd go for a state school and live at home. I don't know if that's an option for your son, but perhaps it is.
As for the schools themselves, many public universities have to accept any in-state applicant. Even Purdue had to accept most Indiana students, although I believe they were allowed to accept them to a regional campus rather than the main campus.
To me ultimately the problem is that the students come out of high school poorly prepared. It's not like in our parent's day (mine graduate H.S. in the 50s) when a high school diploma meant you were prepared to enter the work force.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 07:02 AM (pW2o8)
So, can we blame the Jews for our Mothers refrain: "Aren't you ashamed of yourself?" ?
/yeah, I heard it often, real often
Posted by: maddogg at June 02, 2011 07:03 AM (OlN4e)
That is a (false) circular definition of "real Catholics".
Posted by: Nighthawk at June 02, 2011 07:04 AM (OtQXp)
You're not doing it right. ;-)
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 07:05 AM (pW2o8)
Posted by: PaleRider at June 02, 2011 07:06 AM (cQZV0)
Okay, I will stop spamming y'all with links after this one to the International Free Press Society:
Final Remarks of Geert Wilders at his trial in Amsterdam, June 1, 2011
"...Acquit me. I do not incite to hatred. I do not incite to discrimination. But I defend the character, the identity, the culture and the freedom of the Netherlands. That is the truth. That is why I am here. That is why I speak. That is why, like Luther before the Imperial Diet at Worms, I say: 'Here I stand, I can do no other.'"
Very powerful stuff.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 07:06 AM (4df7R)
On a slightly more serious note, the Catholic guilt thing comes from the fact that we are baptized at birth (locking us into a set of "rules" from the start), then begin going to confession at around age 8 (reinforcing that there is a wrong way to behave), and have lots of "rules" pertaining to sexuality.
I suppose the Mormons have it worse than us, particularly since with their lay clergy they are all policing each other's morality in a way that Catholics don't.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 07:08 AM (pW2o8)
Posted by: dagny at June 02, 2011 07:09 AM (embeV)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at June 02, 2011 07:10 AM (Pzf4N)
Posted by: Killerdog at June 02, 2011 07:11 AM (LVppw)
There are dire consequeces to unchecked sexual acting out. There are rules, even natural rules, to how one should curb their basest instincts into the proper channels. One should feel guilty about debasing themselves and others.Without that you get 80% fatherless welfare dependent crack addled ignorant chaos.
Posted by: dagny at June 02, 2011 07:12 AM (embeV)
I wonder how good they are, though. I taught a large core bio class to sophomores and we always had to spend a week or so bringing the students up to speed on basic math, statistics, and chemistry. From my interaction with the students in office hours (roughly 15-20 hrs/week) and the kids' performances on the first two exams (we had four per term), I'd say a lot the kids who take those classes are not well-served by them. They tended to over-estimate their own mastery of the subject only to have to scramble the second half of the semester to bring their grades up.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 07:12 AM (pW2o8)
If you are living your life in a way that is to the doctrine you subscribe to you will not feel guilty.
The question or test of how well the guilt response is ingrained in you is ask yourself the question. If I found a wallet/purse with money and I.D. in it would I feel guilty if I did not return it to it's owner?
Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 02, 2011 07:13 AM (tf9Ne)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 07:13 AM (i6RpT)
Posted by: bergerbilder at June 02, 2011 07:16 AM (S1Ttj)
Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at June 02, 2011 07:16 AM (48wze)
Posted by: huerfano at June 02, 2011 07:17 AM (BeusG)
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 11:05 AM (pW2o
I find the Catholic faith uplifting and comforting. I'm sorry you don't.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 02, 2011 07:17 AM (TpXEI)
Meh. Sulzberger et al. are still there. Let the decline gather pace.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 02, 2011 07:18 AM (1yViP)
I'll take guilt/atonement any day over shame/revenge.
I'd like to keep my head.
Posted by: Derak at June 02, 2011 07:19 AM (CjpKH)
I find the Catholic faith uplifting and comforting. I'm sorry you don't.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 02, 2011 11:17 AMI have no idea why you are taking my initial post about guilt so seriously or from where you are drawing conclusions about my view of Catholicism. Very odd. It's almost as if you are trying to make me feel guilty.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 07:22 AM (pW2o8)
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 11:12 AM (pW2o
This is actually a large part of my job - articulated credit and dual enrollment courses between high schools and colleges. There's a bit of a difference between the two.
1) Articulated courses are ones where a high school level course can be substituted for a college level course. So if a student passes Accounting 101 with a B or better in high school, they can opt out of a similar course at a specific college that has a specific articulation agreement with the high school.
2) Dual enrollment courses are college courses that are taught by the high school instructor, and which earn students college credit in that course if they pass the course with a particular GPA or grade. Since dual enrollment/dual credit courses are actual college classes, the high school instructor has to be approved by the college in question as having the proper credentials to effectively teach the material. They're an excellent deal for the money (usually $75/credit hour, versus the $200+ per credit hour you may ahve to spend at a community college, or even more at any other postsecondary institution).
The problem with either of these options is that it requires secondary schools (high schools) and postsecondary schools (colleges and universities) to sit down and hash out the details of their programs; where they mesh and where they don't mesh. If a high school program's rigor isn't up to the college's snuff, they won't bother. And as we know from a lot of our high school graduates with their heads full of mush, the rigor ain't great.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 07:24 AM (4df7R)
Numbers will win. They are dispassionate little bastards.
Listen, and understand. The numbers are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are broke.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at June 02, 2011 07:24 AM (BDH94)
That's great that there is at least an effort being made. I think our local university here does something similar.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 07:28 AM (pW2o8)
He seems to be jealous of Weinerman's.
Mediaite link (via tinyurl).
Posted by: nickless at June 02, 2011 07:30 AM (MMC8r)
I have no idea why you are taking my initial post about guilt so seriously or from where you are drawing conclusions about my view of Catholicism. Very odd. It's almost as if you are trying to make me feel guilty.
I apologize. I just am increasingly annoyed by the popular notion of the Catholic faith as grim and unpleasant. Saying the Catholic faith means you feel tremendous amounts of guilt kind of feeds into that. And it isn't true.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 02, 2011 07:31 AM (TpXEI)
You go to college to get a job. Period. Instead, I had to pay the school to take courses in philosohpy, sociology and a shit load of other classes that I would never use in my life. That's not to say philosophy is a waste of time, but I can read it in my own free time. I don't want to have to pay someone to force me to read it.
Sorry Ben. This is bullshit.
Posted by: arhooley at June 02, 2011 07:33 AM (+/eKV)
Prof. Heinz Doofensmirtz: "$5.1 trillion in debt for $0.7 trillion in growth over the last 5 years."
Uhhhhh....multiplier. MULTIPLIER!!!
Posted by: Guru Kroogie, real live economix Genus n' stuff at June 02, 2011 07:35 AM (tk5O7)
My statement on Anthony Weiner and the lewd photo tweet
Posted by: momma at June 02, 2011 07:35 AM (nWikJ)
Sorry Ben. This is bullshit.
Posted by: arhooley at June 02, 2011 11:33 AM
I'd elaborate, but I'm afraid another thread will be up any minute. But I'll get back to you on this when there's more time.
Posted by: arhooley at June 02, 2011 07:36 AM (+/eKV)
Posted by: ErikW at June 02, 2011 07:36 AM (VIf5F)
Never mind it is the same article. She is supposed to release something today or tomorrow. Thought that was it. It wasn't sorry for the confusion.
Posted by: momma at June 02, 2011 07:37 AM (nWikJ)
Posted by: chemjeff
What do you have against Beowolf?
Posted by: todler at June 02, 2011 11:31 AM (fPOY0)
Hee!
Vaguely related. My college minor was English, my major Communication (seriously, it's actually worth something - people see it and imagine it means you know what words like "synergy" and "motivational enterprising" mean). But almost everyone I've worked with assumes my major was English. I used to correct them but now I don't bother. The reason why they always make that assumption? According to at least one of the people I corrected back in the day, "Oh. Well you use capitals and punctuation in your emails, so I just assumed..."
I don't know if that's amusing or depressing. I tend to believe the former, otherwise I'd cry.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 07:37 AM (4df7R)
Never mind it is the same article. She is supposed to release something today or tomorrow. Thought that was it. It wasn't sorry for the confusion.
There's something I hadn't noticed before. It says a lot that her response to the retweet was this:
I responded with something along the lines of "are you f***ing kidding me?" and "I've never seen this. You people are sick."
That's what she thought of Weiner's dicpic, intended for her. Maybe she'll be less inclined to defend her "boyfriend" after some reflection.
Posted by: arhooley at June 02, 2011 07:39 AM (+/eKV)
___________
Where *I* went to high school (Roosevelt, UT), there is a college extension across the street from the high school. We could take college courses during the school day, get *both* college and high school credit for them, and the school district paid the tuition. By the time I graduated high school, I was a college sophomore.
There is also a vo-tec on the other side of the high school with a similar deal. I took a few things there as well (auto mechanics, for example; I learned that I should never work on my car, a valuable lesson).
I have no idea if it still works that way; I graduated in '81.
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 07:40 AM (FzhYM)
No problem.
I grew up in very liberal Maryland and was the only Catholic in my circle of friends. They used to tease me about it - including presenting me with a "Dare to be Catholic" t-shirt. I think I have just become pretty toughened to criticisms about it and don't take those criticisms seriously so I tend to laugh them off.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 07:41 AM (pW2o8)
Liberal chicks are sad. No anger at Weiner for sending his weiner and starting the ball rolling.
Posted by: Cherry π at June 02, 2011 07:42 AM (+sBB4)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at June 02, 2011 07:42 AM (Pzf4N)
I think UVU (didn't you say you're a Wolverine?) does a lot of classes for high school students.
I learned the other day that it is one of the largest (top 5) comprehensive public universities in the country. They still serve a community college mission in addition to having vocational degrees all the way up to masters degrees.
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 07:43 AM (pW2o8)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 02, 2011 10:58 AM (TpXEI)
Burn the heretic!
Posted by: The Catholic Church at June 02, 2011 07:44 AM (LH6ir)
You go to college to get a job. Period. Instead, I had to pay the school to take courses in philosohpy, sociology and a shit load of other classes that I would never use in my life. That's not to say philosophy is a waste of time, but I can read it in my own free time. I don't want to have to pay someone to force me to read it.
Sorry Ben. This is bullshit.
Look, I'm just against the traditional Liberal Arts view on college education.
We get that in highschool. You take math, science, history, etc etc in highschool.
I don't, most students don't, need to take a little bit of every course in college.
Does a math major need to take philosophy, history, sociology, etc etc. More specifically, do they need to pay a college to learn about those subjects. You can read and learn about those subjects on your own.
Look at it this way, if Philosophy courses weren't mandatory at college, how many kids would voluntarily take them? 50% less than already do? Maybe more? That would result in a 50% reduction in the Philosophy department. So they have vested interest in keeping the non elective classes. So does the Sociologist department and many other departments that have more money and staff than they would if students were given the choice.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 07:44 AM (wuv1c)
No anger at Weiner for sending his weiner and starting the ball rolling.
Posted by: Cherry π at June 02, 2011 11:42 AM
Notice how angry she was to get the retweeted dicpic? "are you f***ing kidding me?" and "I've never seen this. You people are sick." All extended to the retweeters. Because like, who in the fuck would send such a thing? It's SICK. Oh, and Anthony Weiner is a great guy.
Posted by: arhooley at June 02, 2011 07:44 AM (+/eKV)
I agree with your description of tribal society. I am less sure of your explanation for Western society. One of the advantages of free will is that it allows a continuum of thought. And we have that in abundance.
Posted by: The Catholic Church at June 02, 2011 07:46 AM (LH6ir)
_________
At my HS, it was the other way around; we'd walk across the street to the college extension and be taught by the college instructors. The HS would give us HS credit for doing so.
The vo-tec worked the same way; we'd walk over and be taught by the vo-tec instructors.
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 07:47 AM (xGZ+b)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at June 02, 2011 07:47 AM (Pzf4N)
Posted by: arhooley at June 02, 2011 11:44 AM (+/eKV)
Thank you for noticing!
Oh and you guys are still racist assholes.
Posted by: Anthony Penis at June 02, 2011 07:47 AM (VIf5F)
This is what allowing lawyers to sue rescuers will get you.
Posted by: navybrat at June 02, 2011 07:50 AM (5LPV8)
300 I think UVU (didn't you say you're a Wolverine?)
___________
No, that was my sister. I'm a Utah State Aggie.
The extension across from the high school was run by USU; they're a land grant college, so part of their mission is educating the far-flung masses of the state.
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 07:50 AM (NmR1a)
Posted by: Jean at June 02, 2011 07:50 AM (WkuV6)
Posted by: Y-not
This is ironic, since Maryland was started as a haven for Catholics.
Posted by: The Manufactured Messiah at June 02, 2011 07:50 AM (Gzv/o)
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 11:44 AM
Wow. Universities have "vested interests" in Arts, Sciences, and Humanities? How trivial and tedious of them. We all know Philosophy is a joke, and no Chem major can benefit from a nodding acquaintance with Aristotle or even Sartre.
Ben, the "job" thing is your experience/motivation with college, probably many others'. But not everyone's, and it's not why the institution of higher academia was founded. I suggest a little reading: "The Idea of a University" by John Henry Cardinal Newman.
If you only want a narrow range of knowledge, take courses through the university extension and skip the baccalaureate. And it's your loss.
Posted by: arhooley at June 02, 2011 07:52 AM (+/eKV)
This is ironic, since Maryland was started as a haven for Catholics.
Posted by: The Manufactured Messiah at June 02, 2011 11:50 AM (Gzv/o)
And Virgina was started as a haven for virgins...
Posted by: The Robot Devil at June 02, 2011 07:52 AM (136wp)
Posted by: Jean at June 02, 2011 07:52 AM (WkuV6)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 02, 2011 10:46 AM (i6RpT)
That's okay; I called her.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at June 02, 2011 07:52 AM (LH6ir)
_________
Didn't cause any for me. I was a bona-fide USU student during high school. Since I wound up going to USU after I graduated, everything was smooth.
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 07:52 AM (NmR1a)
This is ironic, since Maryland was started as a haven for Catholics.
Posted by: The Manufactured Messiah at June 02, 2011 11:50 AM (Gzv/o)
I don't know where Y-Not grew up but there are a hell of a lot of Catholics north of Baltimore. Including this convert.
Posted by: Hedgehog at June 02, 2011 07:53 AM (Rn2kl)
Posted by: AmishDude at June 02, 2011 07:53 AM (ZQf5e)
God damn, what did I tell you? The minute I elaborate, a new thread goes up. And it's a Weiner thread, so this one is double-toast.
Posted by: arhooley at June 02, 2011 07:54 AM (+/eKV)
Posted by: at June 02, 2011 10:46 AM (i6RpT)
Dad?
Posted by: nevergiveup mk. 2 at June 02, 2011 07:55 AM (136wp)
Posted by: Jean at June 02, 2011 07:57 AM (WkuV6)
This is ironic, since Maryland was started as a haven for Catholics.
Posted by: The Manufactured Messiah at June 02, 2011 11:50 AM (Gzv/o)
And Virgina was started as a haven for virgins...
Posted by: The Robot Devil
And Florida was a haven for people named Flo. Look it up. It was sad to se the feud between the Dakota brothers though. They never did reconcile.
Posted by: The Manufactured Messiah at June 02, 2011 08:00 AM (Gzv/o)
On a slightly more serious note, the Catholic guilt thing comes from the fact that we are baptized at birth (locking us into a set of "rules" from the start), then begin going to confession at around age 8 (reinforcing that there is a wrong way to behave), and have lots of "rules" pertaining to sexuality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I have never felt "guilty" as a Catholic. That is a fallacy perpetrated by non-Catholics who don't know shit. I have a feeling that this is the point of your comment. Describing how non-Catholics see us.
Posted by: David at June 02, 2011 08:02 AM (u2rWt)
I was closer to DC. It's not that there weren't any Catholics, just that in my circle of friends there weren't any. And our local parish was pretty liberal.
And that's "Ballmore"! ;-)
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 08:02 AM (pW2o8)
The idea of general education is to make people well-rounded, yes
Whether that should be taught at the university level, or whether that should be taught at the highschool level, is another issue. There's lots of stuff that you can't really talk too much about in highschool, that ought to be talked about, without incurring the wrath of the schoolboard/parents/PTB/etc.
In practice universities tend to treat general education as a way to pad enrollment in departments that most people wouldn't ordinarily choose if they weren't forced to take it. Like philosophy classes.
But that really isn't some nefarious decision by the university to make money, this is where Ben is wrong. Universities really are chaotic messes when it comes to how they are run. Professors at faculty meetings jostle the general education requirements around in order to save their jobs, mainly. The loudest and oldest voices tend to win. If you have a university that has a weak science requirement, for instance, then you can be pretty sure that the faculty committee that was in charge of the most recent general education revision had some spineless representative from the sciences, and a loudmouth blowhard from the humanities.
Posted by: chemjeff at June 02, 2011 08:04 AM (7mSYS)
Wow. Universities have "vested interests" in Arts, Sciences, and Humanities? How trivial and tedious of them. We all know Philosophy is a joke, and no Chem major can benefit from a nodding acquaintance with Aristotle or even Sartre.
First, don't ascribe things to me I didn't say and assume I harbor some sort of hatred for subjects not related to what I majored in, because I don't. I am simply quetioning the mandatory nature of these subjects.
I enjoy reading Aristotle, and I'm not paying 340.00 per credit to enjoy reading it. Same goes with most other subjects not related to my major in college or job. I have nothing against the humanities. My degree is in History.
Would a chem major benefit from reading aristotle? Yeah probably. Would a chem major be hurt by not paying a college thousands of dollars to read Aritstotle and instead read it on his/her own initiative? I don't think he/she would be hurt by it.
Also, I didn't say college have a vested interest in those subject. I said the people who work in those departments have a vested interest in making those course mandatory. How many kids would take Sociology is they weren't forced to? Do you think a department like that would have as many professors, staff, and as large a budget at any college if its course weren't mandatory?
Also, Satre was a douche. You can take that to the bank. No Exit? More like dirty Frenchman.
Ben, the "job" thing is your experience/motivation with college, probably many others'. But not everyone's, and it's not why the institution of higher academia was founded. I suggest a little reading: "The Idea of a University" by John Henry Cardinal Newman.
Times change. This isn't the 17th, 18th, 19th , or 20th century. TVs, computers, the internet, books, magizines, scientific articles, etc are readily any everyones finger tips. There was a time when the only way you could learn latin or foreign languages was at college. There was a time when you couldn't have ready access to books. There was a time when even when you had ready access to books, it took a long time to find the information you sought. Those days are gone. Information is everywhere and for the taking.
Also, if you don't see college as a means to getting a job, then what's the point? Do we have to pay 100K plus just to be a more rounded person. Can't people of their own free will choose to study a broad range of subjects on their own?
If you only want a narrow range of knowledge, take courses through the university extension and skip the baccalaureate. And it's your loss.
You're right. It's about individuals deciding. If you say it would be my loss, then fine. You may be right, you may not be right. But I can tell you what is definately a loss. The hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt people go into for colllege. And the fact that we the people are stuck backing their loans.
That's a loss.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 08:06 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: arhooley at June 02, 2011 11:52 AM
I agree with you eleventy.
I'm also shocked by folks who complain about what are usually pretty minimal requirements for non-majors. I mean, unless you go to a place like the U of Chicago as an undergrad (which I didn't) and are in one of those Great Books curricula (which seem like a terrific idea to me), how hard is it to find a university that doesn't have an onerous requirement of courses outside your major? And don't you think a college professor is going to deliver, on average, a better course in say history or literature than a high school teacher?
It's baffling to me the level of hostility not to just American academe - which I appreciate is irritating because of the progressive agenda - but for higher education. We enjoy a spectacularly diverse array of choices for higher ed. Do your research and pick a school that delivers the experience you want. How hard is that?
Posted by: Y-not at June 02, 2011 08:07 AM (pW2o8)
I should add that I do think its beneficial for a Chem major to take a course in composition. Or history major to take a course in math.
However it should be voluntary.
I can say, based on my memory, a full two years of college, maybe more, weren't devoted to my major.
And now that i have a job, i do read literature and I don't need to pay a college to do so. If I want to discuss the literature in a group I can join a book club, or go online and read analysis of the literature by people that are more leanred on the subject than myself and I can do it for free
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 08:11 AM (wuv1c)
However, U.S. District Judge John Coughenour found that the North American Gay Amateur Athletic Association, which sponsors the yearly event, can keep its rule. The First Amendment guarantees of freedom of expression and association allow organizations like the softball association to limit membership to individuals with like-minded beliefs in order to promote a broader agenda — in this case, ensuring gay athletes have a safe and accepting community in which to play, he ruled.
The plaintiffs — Stephen Apilado, LaRon Charles and John Russ — were members of the team D5, which made it to the finals of the Gay World Series in 2008.
During the game, the manager of another team filed a protest under the rule that limits the number of non-gay players. The men contend they were brought, one at a time, into a room containing as many as 25 people and questioned about their sexual preferences.
The panel members then voted on whether they men were gay or "non-gay." Several ballots were held, and the men said the process was humiliating.
Now, are homosexuals and their homosexuality-normalizing friends intelligent or what? LOL
Imagine the scene above for a second. Really, imagine all
these retarded, fanatical, deformed liberals sitting around, putting
forth their "intelligent" questions about these guysÂ’ "gayness" and then
having a vote! A vote! LOL
I can imagine the questions:
How pink is your underwear? Do you file your nails every day
or not? When was the last time you put on false eyelashes? Do go wild
when you watch that retarded gay figure skater? No?
Snap, you *itch, youÂ’re not gay enough to play on our fag team!
Posted by: malor softball at June 02, 2011 08:16 AM (wsHin)
Whether that should be taught at the university level, or whether that should be taught at the highschool level, is another issue.
I think the issue Ben has -- and please correct me, Ben, if I'm wrong -- is that "gen ed" courses are required for everybody. I happen to agree that they shouldn't be. General education courses are great for students who don't necessarily know what they want to major in, and who want to feel around and find something that gets their blood moving. But if you're a student who has gone to college knowing that you want to major in law, or medicine, or chemistry, or hell, English Literature, then you don't want to take courses in subjects that don't interest you, or that you know without a doubt you'll struggle in. I was horrible at math, hated it with a passion, and loathed the idea of wasting my time in a math course in college when all I wanted to do was push it away with a sharp stick. I was lucky enough to be able to take Intro to Logic for my math credit -- easiest course I've ever taken, no joke. But that just made it even more of a waste of my time.
There is a place for the Humanities in higher education. I don't think the importance of topics like philosophy, sociology, literature, and history should be derided or cast aside. But is it worth it to force a pre-Med student to take Introduction to Gender Studies to satisfy one of their "Cultural and Social Issues" general education requirements when they'd be better served taking Anatomy 101?
I think basic reading and writing skills need to be ascertained, so a required course in English comprehension and expression should be required at the postsecondary level. But beyond that, I honestly think a student should be allowed to make their own decisions on how myopic or broad their education should be. After all, they, or their parents, or the taxpayers are paying for it. The more bang the student gets for the buck, the better.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 08:17 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 08:18 AM (k1rwm)
God damn, what did I tell you? The minute I elaborate, a new thread goes up. And it's a Weiner thread, so this one is double-toast.
I'll stick around and i don't want to hijack a new thread. It's an interesting conversation and something that is going to be relevant pretty soon.
Glenn Reynolds has been covering the issues of higher education for a long time.
His main issue is if degrees, specifically in law are worth the investment for the average student.
One of my issues is that if you're going to college with the goal of simply getting a job, then you should be able to take courses of your choosing. Especially considering the average cost per year is in the tens of thousands of dollars.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 08:20 AM (wuv1c)
Anyway, I remember utter outrage from the left over something palin did in alaska and then all of a sudden they now think it's a good idea to deal with animals in this way?
And, this is not the first idea I've seen them steal from her and then not give her any attribution.
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 08:23 AM (k1rwm)
What you are describing is the difference between a technical education and a liberal education.
If you want a technical education then go to a technical school.
Posted by: chemjeff at June 02, 2011 08:24 AM (7mSYS)
MWR,
That's pretty much it.
Colleges are keeping students there longer than they need to be and I believe it is for financial reasons.
Why could I only take 5 courses per semester if I could handle more?
Why do I need to take a sociology couse when I don't want to or need to. I can read max weber and not pay thousands for it.
I had to take FOUR philosophy courses. That's almost an entire semesters worth. Am I saying philosophy is worhtless? No, but it wasn't worth the thousands i paid that semester. I will never get that money back using the information i learned in those classes. I shouldn't have to pay to be a well rounded person with a wide range of interests, i can do that on my own.
I understand that writing, math, science are important, and you should take those courses in college along with your major, but you should be free to choose considering you're the one paying.
That's my main point. I'm not against the humanities or other subjects, I simply don't like that you have no choice when you're paying.
Does that mean perhaps they should have different degrees for people who only focus on their major, sure that's fine.
But I doubt a energy company is going to frown upon hiring an engineer who only took math, science, and engineering classes verus hiring someone who took a wide array of courses.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 08:26 AM (wuv1c)
There is a place for the Humanities in higher education. I don't think the importance of topics like philosophy, sociology, literature, and history should be derided or cast aside. But is it worth it to force a pre-Med student to take Introduction to Gender Studies to satisfy one of their "Cultural and Social Issues" general education requirements when they'd be better served taking Anatomy 101?
I think basic reading and writing skills need to be ascertained, so a required course in English comprehension and expression should be required at the postsecondary level. But beyond that, I honestly think a student should be allowed to make their own decisions on how myopic or broad their education should be. After all, they, or their parents, or the taxpayers are paying for it. The more bang the student gets for the buck, the better.
Posted by: MWR at June 02, 2011 12:17 PM (4df7R)
It's still possible to find colleges that don't require bullshit propaganda classes like that. My son applied to NYU and Temple, which do. He didn't get into NYU and he didn't get into the music program he wanted at Temple. He is going to Belmont University in Nashville, a conservative Christian school which also happens to be one of the few that has the major he wanted. It has required courses in religion, quantitative reasoning, American history, written and oral communication, science, and computer science. No "race and gender studies" or any of that crap.
Posted by: rockmom at June 02, 2011 08:26 AM (mBDmf)
I know a lot of people who aren't going back to "the fancy schools" becasue one of their parents lost their job. Anyway, they are finding that the new school, usually a state school that is way cheaper than the fancy school won't take a lot of their credits from the fancy school. So they end up graduating later, having to pay for courses that the state school deems acceptable and they lose, on average, judging by the people I know, at least a year. Some parents were so shocked by this catch 22 that they are sending the kid back to the fancy school to "just graduate and get out as fast as you can" cause they realize that the extra money at the new transfer school will set the kid and the family back even more.
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 08:28 AM (k1rwm)
__________
I'm pretty round and all it took was hanging out at fast food places. Value meals are cheap these days.
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 08:29 AM (IrbU4)
I guess my issue with college is on multiple levels, many of them are similar to what monty talks about in his posts.
1. That college is the next step after highschool.
2. That colleges sell themselves as experiences, when that isn't what their stated purpose.
3. That colleges are too easy and devalue college degrees.
4. That you have no freedom of choice at college as to how many classes you can take or what classes you can take (the arguement wer're having now)
5. That colleges sell themselves as resulting in significantly increased pay or job prospects(which is the issue Glenn Reynolds has been folllowing)
6. That mandatory classes distort the amount of power or money certain departments have at colleges(part of the argument we're having)
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 08:31 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: chemjeff at June 02, 2011 08:36 AM (7mSYS)
But I can tell you right now that there isn't any reputable university out there that implements gen ed requirements just to rake in more cash.
Fine, I'll take your word for it, but that is now the end result. Gen ed requirments keep kids there longer than they want/need to be.
I do understand that it was part of the orginal liberal education, but times change.
A universities purpose today isn't the same as it was say in the 1800s where access to information was so limited and the university was the only place where you could get that information.
And I think your second observation is why gen ed requirments won't ever be waved. There are too many departments that wouldn't exist, or at least have as big a budget if not for gen ed.
Women's Studies, Sociology, etc probably wouldn't be able to stand on their own unless people are forced to take them.
And let's be honest, is my degree in history worth any less if I didn't take a women's study class, or sociology class(which i did in fact have to take)?
I don't think so, and I don't think a prospective employer would think so.
Posted by: Ben at June 02, 2011 08:44 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: rockmom at June 02, 2011 08:45 AM (mBDmf)
That is how colleges have to compete with each other. They are marketed to dim-bulb 18-year-olds who tend to value stuff like "oh cool there's a bowling alley in the student union!" over stuff like "does my chemistry professor have a terminal degree, or is the prof just an underpaid flunkie who barely speaks English?"
4. That you have no freedom of choice at college as to how many classes you can take or what classes you can take (the arguement wer're having now)
You do have some freedom of choice, it is just not explicitly stated. You have to be savvy about it.
There are things like study abroad experiences where you can get lots of college credit for general ed stuff for going off and doing something fun, rather than reading Max Weber all day.
I have seen where people got college credit for experiential learning from their real-life activities. So people would, say, get college credit for a psychology class if they worked as a counselor for X years or something.
And then of course there is the community college transfer option.
And quite honestly if you don't want any of the general ed stuff, then that is what technical colleges are for.
But when you sign up at a university you are also signing up for the liberal education model. I AGREE that public universities in particular oversell the "get a great job with a degree" aspect of a college education. They pimp themselves out in front of state legislatures in order to get more public money. It is sickening, quite honestly.
Posted by: chemjeff at June 02, 2011 08:46 AM (7mSYS)
Posted by: sherlock at June 02, 2011 08:47 AM (BKPeM)
The need for society's leaders to be well-rounded hasn't changed.
And I think your second observation is why gen ed requirments won't ever be waved. There are too many departments that wouldn't exist, or at least have as big a budget if not for gen ed.
Well yes but that just means they won't be abolished. You can get some gen ed requirements waived for your particular case if you work at it. Universities, departments and professors don't really care all that much whether there are 78 or 79 people in a gen ed class.
Now I do think there is a lot more that could be done in bringing gen ed type requirements down to the highschool. I agree that we don't need two full years of the stuff at the university level. But - one reason why it is that way is because highschool preparation is so unreliable. I have heard absolute horror stories from students and their chemistry preparation from highschool, for instance. they just sit around and goof off in lab all day and don't really learn anything. So from my POV at the university level, if I can't trust highschools to do a good job at preparing students to be well-rounded, then that means I've got to do the job myself. Ultimately, many problems in higher ed can be fixed with reforms in K-12 education.
And let's be honest, is my degree in history worth any less if I didn't take a women's study class, or sociology class(which i did in fact have to take)?
I don't think so, and I don't think a prospective employer would think so.
I can easily see how potential graduate schools might think differently. But I don't know very much about history departments and how they work though.
Posted by: chemjeff at June 02, 2011 08:59 AM (7mSYS)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at June 02, 2011 09:35 AM (Pzf4N)
most of the "financial aid" for almost everyone I know is hooking you up with a bank "they like to deal with" and getting you a student loan. Even the kids who are really really poor are not getting grants and scholarships but loans. Cause they like to spread grant and scholarship money around to a lot of people so they give less "free money" than they did in the past. Also, now the university has to stipulate what they think is a good amount for you to attend their school and live adequately. Previous students could take more than they needed in case they ran into an emergency. Not anymore, I'm being told that the sibs of my friends are asking them for money cause even their loans, after you pay your tuition, is not enough to live and eat and buy yourself clothes. And forget going out. It's tough out there.
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 09:42 AM (k1rwm)
Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at June 02, 2011 10:13 AM (Pzf4N)
You know it occurred to me that you believe the federal government will cover defaults on student loans? Well, not really, your loans follow you throughout your life and cannot be discharged with a bankruptcy. So it seems to me that they expect you to keep paying no matter what. All the parents thought it was funny not to pay back their student loans and without any consequences so now their kids are stuck with a terrible law which will follow them for the rest of their lives.
As I was watching "Too Big To Fail" the other night, it occurred to me that the government could have covered every mortgage and all the outstanding student loan debt and still not spent the amount of money they've spent.
Posted by: curious at June 02, 2011 11:29 AM (k1rwm)
__________
Given that you get olive oil by squeezing olives, where does Welsh oil come from?
Posted by: Anachronda at June 02, 2011 01:30 PM (xGZ+b)
The "beach shot" photoshop idea came from Whoopsie, not Behar. Behar, and Baba Wa-wa, actually sound almost sane in the article.
Wait - The View has been hacked!!!
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