1 Even stipulating that he was an Islamist, that may just be a symptom of his disease, rather than a cause.

In other words, he became an Islamist because he was otherwise nuts and inclined to commit acts of violence, not the other way around.

2 Looking closely. How can you be an islamist and not be nuts? I don't see your distinction.

3 In other words, he became an Islamist because he was otherwise nuts and inclined to commit acts of violence, not the other way around.

Even if so, imagine if he'd be a "Christian Fundamentalist" a la BM from some of the earlier threads, today.  His Christianity would be The Narrative of this story- instead, the fact that he's an Islamist is so buried as to have been effectively embargoed.

And, as Ace mentions, our loving MBM is playing this like there are no clues to his motive in his letter.  But we now know there are, indeed, clues as to his motive- he's an Islamist.  Even if Islam doesn't turn out to be the final motive, it's a clue.

4

$113 a barrel. Now that is hope and change we can count on. For the 52% of the minimum wage and welfare queens (AkA: sponges of society) that voted for Obama.....Live With it, because your government check can't by jack now !!!!!!!!

5 ace, previous thread....125 & 139.

6 >>>“Maybe it was because his mother and grandmother had died.” Or maybe it was because he was upset about the new Health Care Reform law.

7 In other words, he became an Islamist because he was otherwise nuts and inclined to commit acts of violence, not the other way around.

A nutcase who is still aware enough to know the difference between right and wrong might also gravitate to an ideology where violence is justified, to assuage his guilt.

8 A longtime neighbor and former member of Mr. OliveiraÂ’s church said Mr. Oliveira had been a lifelong JehovahÂ’s Witness before turning to Islam two years ago.


A longtime neighbor and former vegan said Mr. Hitler was a lifelong vegetarian before turning to National Socialism a few years ago.

9 the important thing is that he died doing what he loved to do

10 From Jehovah's Witness to Islamist, dude had some issues.

11 My mistake.  I mistranslated the Quran. I was supposed to rape the children, not kill them.

12 10 From Jehovah's Witness to Islamist, dude had some issues. Posted by: Penfold at April 08, 2011 03:31 PM (1PeEC) I guess he got tired of people refusing to take a copy of Watchtower.

13 no, rape *then* kil

14 Jehovah's Witness to Radical Muslim, that seems like a seemless transition

15 Posted by: Big Ideas Soothsayer at April 08, 2011 03:33 PM (uFokq)

Like the faux Viking Birthday Song...

Son this lesson you must learn
First you pillage then you burn...

16 #2 Ronster,

Ace made the same point near the end of the post.

That's sort of a semantic argument, but my response is that merely being an Islamist does not mean you are clinically insane.  By analogy, being a religious fundamentalist of any kind does not mean you are clinically insane.   There are fundamentalists who are insane, and there are ones who are not.

And to be clear, all I'm saying here is that Islam has a certain appeal to angry young men.   That's not a positive comment on Islam or this child-murdering lunatic.  Whether or not any association this guy had with Islam was a contributing factor to this tragedy is an open question at this time, I think. 

17
Wellington Menezes de Oliveira was very irritated about the Bush "No Child Left Behind" policy, and took his revenge on the people most responsible. 

18

I think Brazilian Politics could use a big heaping dose of Civility. That will clear this problem up.

 

Oh, and that's Sarah Palin for inserting youself into this story.

19 Let's not jump to conclusions.

20 no, kill then rape.

otherwise they don't hold still and make too much noise.

21 I think it's a live question. I wouldn't assume that he was an Islamist or did this because of Islamism per se. But obviously that is a possibility, and once again, the media is determined to suppress that fact.

22
Brazil should look to America for the best example of leadership during national crisis as witnessed by the current administration.

23 How *nice* of the MBM to make those decisions *for* the unwashed rubes who watch and read.

Have I mentioned lately what scumbags reporters are? I think I did, but it bears repeating.

24 Ahhh, rape then kill. These squiggles and dots are so hard to read.  You'd think they could have invented a proper alphabet when they were inventing algebra and zero and all that other stuff Obama said they invented.

25
1. Maiming, Killing, Terror, Pedophilia

2. ????

3. Prophet!!!!!

26
This young man's rage was probably triggered by those shapely young exposed buttocks on Ipanema Beach, or maybe the cocks.

27 What about the shooting and muder on a British  Nuclear Sub, have we found out who was resposible for that yet?

28 This young man's rage was probably triggered by those shapely young exposed buttocks on Ipanema Beach, or maybe the cocks.

Posted by: Lindsey Graham, R-D, SC at April 08, 2011 03:41 PM (ZHsNw)

You would know, eh?

29 And while Jihadism is spreading through the world Barak Fucking Obama gives our men and women in uniform a half a fucking paycheck. Will fight terrorism for food indeed.

30

That's sort of a semantic argument, but my response is that merely being an Islamist does not mean you are clinically insane.

What I've noticed is that recent converts to the Religion of Pieces all tend to do the same things like become obsessed with it, change their last name, dress differently, grow a neck beard and start keeping goats in the garage.

I may have made that last one up. But anyway, my point is that they are fundamentally weak-minded and while seeking direction from outside of them (instead of inside, relying on intuition and conscience like some religions teach), they seek out the overbearing. Islam fills the bill, much like an inner-city yout with no father figure will seek and join a gang.

31 I suspect Muslim media would be more eager to mention Islamic connections because it turns the assailant into a jihadist hero, i.e., an example of a good Muslim.

32 Whenever I scroll down to read a post, the sight of Scarlett's bazoombas in the sidebar make me smile. An exceedingly pleasant change from the hobo cats and ghastly politicians usually on display, even if I don't normally find her all that attractive.

33 @25

That is frickin' hilarious.

34

Sick as it is, our media has actively chosen to censor or to emphasize/shade what they report so as to present only what conforms to their political worldview; i.e. above all else, the story must fit The Narrative.

This has become dog bites man stuff, but in all seriousness, Ace, please keep reporting this type of thing. Don't let them get by without exposing ANYTHING of this nature that is uncovered.

Over time, perhaps more and more people will see something like this, and unless they are part of the far left looney bin, perhaps they'll say, "Hey, this isn't right. What else aren't we being told, and what else have we been spoon fed?" Maybe over time, even if they don't become morons, at least there is a shot they won't be part of the 52% again.

Without you and others of your ilk, there would be only the kultursmog. We can sockpuppet this to death, and the puppets ARE funny, but this problem could not be more serious.

35 His motive was the defunding of Planned Parenthood. If the government doesn't pay for abortions then poor brown people will be driven to perform their own abortions. He was just trying to prevent these children from being forced to have an unwanted child. This poor man. He was the victim in all this.

36

Hmm.  Another day, another cover-up of a muslim's mass killing.  Imagine that.

I'm still amazed there hasn't yet been a Beslan here in the US.  But rest assured that the day is coming.  It's the reward for our great and noble tolerance of an evil death cult. 

 

37 Whenever I scroll down to read a post, the sight of Scarlett's bazoombas in the sidebar make me smile. An exceedingly pleasant change from the hobo cats and ghastly politicians usually on display, even if I don't normally find her all that attractive.

Posted by: Waterhouse at April 08, 2011 03:42 PM (YvNBz)

Her face is ok, but honestly, who looks at her face for more than 2 seconds?

38

Her face is ok, but honestly, who looks at her face for more than 2 seconds?

What face?

39 Isn't this the same fucking AP that now rewrites their own stories to erase down the memory hole the Presidents own fucking word if he says something stupid?

40 At least the strict gun laws in Brazil prevent mass shootings like this one.

41 OT: Reuters

(Reuters) - The agency overseeing Wisconsin elections will not certify results of Tuesday's state Supreme Court race until it concludes a probe into how a county clerk misplaced and then found some 14,000 votes that upended the contest.

Michael Haas, Government Accountability Board staff attorney, told Reuters on Friday the watchdog agency was looking into vote tabulation errors in Republican-leaning Waukesha County which gave the conservative incumbent a net gain of more than 7,000 votes -- a lead his union-backed challenger seems unlikely to surmount.

"We're going to do a review of the procedures and the records in Waukesha before we certify the statewide results," Haas said.

"It's not that we necessarily expect to find anything criminal. But we want to make sure the public has confidence in the results,"

http://tinyurl.com/43xqfnr

42
This tragic event will not allow the Brazilian Government to declare Kinetic Military Action against those responsible, the Jehovah's Witness's.  The President of the United States is calling for calm during this period of turmoil, and a big "Shout Out" to the mom's and dad's of those lost children from me.

43 I may have made that last one up. But anyway, my point is that they are fundamentally weak-minded and while seeking direction from outside of them (instead of inside, relying on intuition and conscience like some religions teach), they seek out the overbearing. Islam fills the bill, much like an inner-city yout with no father figure will seek and join a gang. Posted by: BackwardsBoy at April 08, 2011 03:42 PM (d0Tfm) Previously such guidance would have come from a father or father figure, but there's less and less of that sort of thing as the family dies off in the West. Thus young men have no male figure to look up to and come to resent their mothers, which attracts them to misogynistic systems like Islam (or cultural attitudes like that encouraged by rap music, for example). Fathers matter, in short.

44 #25.  What I've noticed is that recent converts to the Religion of Pieces all tend to do the same things

Maybe that's because only the ones that do those things attract your attention.

My experience has generally been that adult or young adult religious converts (ie "born agains") of all denominations tend to have serious social or psychological issues.  They're looking for some kind of change in their life or answer to their problems.   And then they all tend to go "all in".

45 Jehovah's Witness to Radical Muslim

Didn't Michael Jackson do that, supposedly (maybe not the 'radical')?

46 Wellington?? I blame it on the British!

47
You're doing it wrong. You burn before you rape, because it's more romantic in the firelight.

48

 What about the shooting and muder on a British  Nuclear Sub, have we found out who was resposible for that yet?

Who cares!!! WTF I want to know if I'm still going on my long planned family vacation to the Williamsburg Mall!!!!

 

49 #41

Apparently this nutjob did the entire shooting with two .38 caliber revolvers.

Imagine that. . .no "high cap" magazines or "assault weapons".

50 Posted by: Tami at April 08, 2011 03:46 PM (VuLos)

 I'm thinking that "error" was done on purpose once they realized Prosser would win, so that they could delay certifying the elections, as they are doing.

Also, I read that the clerks there use MS Office to track the votes?? I thought that there is software made for this sort of thing, if not, then no wonder the Dems cheat so easily.

51 47 Jehovah's Witness to Radical Muslim Didn't Michael Jackson do that, supposedly (maybe not the 'radical')? Posted by: nickless at April 08, 2011 03:49 PM (MMC8r) I think MJ was more interested in one of Islam's sexual fringe benefits.

52 Scarlett is a big boob, both figuratively and literally. She was engaged to numerous guys before dumping them. She marries and it last only for two years. And now she is shacked up with, gasp, Sean Penn. Spit. Plus, she's the fucking worse actress in the world.

53

 Isn't this the same fucking AP that now rewrites their own stories to erase down the memory hole the Presidents own fucking word if he says something stupid?

The president, saying something stupid?!  Not possible, look at that pant crease you cretin.

54

Fathers matter, in short.

Exactly. Funny that the father figure is so prevalent in Christianity, and that it's being demeaned and degraded in every way possible by leftists of all stripes. (father figures and the religion)

All right, y'all. I got an early gig.

Boogie I must. Have fun. And I might actually get to drink a beer tonite. Whee!

55 Ain't nobody employing Scarlett for her thespian talents.

56 I can't get over Michelle ditching her wig. Never thought I'd see her do it.

57 @50

He was certainly old school about it.

58 He shot mostly girls.

Lovely religion.

59 Maybe we should at least be thankful that they didn't speculate that it was a TEA party type unhappy with Obamacare.

60

See?  We told you that the Republican budget would kill children, wingnuts. 

61

So, while one Islamist nut was shooting schoolchildren in Brazil, another whole bunch of Islamist nuts was firing an anti-tank rocket at a schoolbus in Israel.

The Brazilian nut gets a coverup of his Islamist connections.  The Gazan nuts get Europeans advocating their incorporation into the "peace process" with Israel and their getting their own state.

Strange world we live in, isn't it?

62 He was certainly old school about it.

Posted by: Penfold at April 08, 2011 03:53 PM (1PeEC)

Meh.  Given that the Brazilians are largely disarmed I suspect he could have done as much damage with a sword.  Now THAT would be old school.

63

The 36-paragraph AP article, makes no mention of his Islamic affiliation or beliefs.

Yeh, there goes those AP people again. When there not giving short shrift to the election of right leaning judges they're poo-poo-ing direct evidence of Islamic terrorism.

Oh, and don't forget the Snarky Barky white washing that went on in PA this week!

Man, they are on FIRE!!!!

 

 

 

64 I can't get over Michelle ditching her wig.

Wait, what?

65 63 He was certainly old school about it.

Posted by: Penfold at April 08, 2011 03:53 PM (1PeEC)

Meh.  Given that the Brazilians are largely disarmed I suspect he could have done as much damage with a sword.  Now THAT would be old school.

Posted by: Reactionary at April 08, 2011 03:57 PM (xUM1Q)

 The use if a scimitar it seems would have been apropos.

66 And to be clear, all I'm saying here is that Islam has a certain appeal to angry young men.   That's not a positive comment on Islam or this child-murdering lunatic.  Whether or not any association this guy had with Islam was a contributing factor to this tragedy is an open question at this time, I think. 


Uh, no.

67 And the MSM will be the last to know why they are a stinking, putrifying corpse. Every year they shrink a little smaller, lay off more journalists, lose advertising and every year they blame everything and everyone but themselves. Nobody can say their demise was unpredictable, and even fewer can say undeserved.

68 #58

I'm really not trying to make light of this, but it doesn't take a lot of sophisticated weaponry or tactics to kill a bunch of unarmed 14 year old girls.

He probably used revolvers just because they were the most readily available to him, not for any other reason.

69   60 Maybe we should at least be thankful that they didn't speculate that it was a TEA party type unhappy with Obamacare.

Posted by: maddogg at April 08, 2011 03:57 PM (OlN4e)

The Friday evening news dump has yet to be dropped.

 

70 Speaking of fathers:  http://goo.gl/hWJCh

71

"We're going to do a review of the procedures and the records in Waukesha before we certify the statewide results," Haas said.

"It's not that we necessarily expect to find anything criminal. But we want to make sure the public has confidence in the results,"

http://tinyurl.com/43xqfnr

Posted by: Tami at April 08, 2011 03:46 PM (VuLos

Something wicked is afoot.

 

72 So why didn't he go on the child-killing shooting spree two years ago when he was a Jehovah? Wasn't he the same nut two years ago?

73 How many more have to die before the west realizes that Islam is at war with it whether it wants to be or not.

You know if this Brazilian had posters of Palin all over his room it'd be the lead story.

74 Something wicked is afoot. Posted by: dananjcon at April 08, 2011 04:06 PM (pr+up) The delays could be endless. A bureaucracy like that is Alice in Wonderland in triplicate.

75 Planned Parenthood doesn't do mamograms. Someone needs to tell the dem leadership.

76 One of the things that pissed me off the most in the intial reporting was a quote from someone shocked by the event saying "it was like something you'd see from the United States."

Motherfucker, Brazil has five times the violent crime we do. Fuck you, bitch.

77 This is why you don't plan your naked parties on ymail.

78 77 Planned Parenthood doesn't do mamograms. Someone needs to tell the dem leadership.

Posted by: dagny at April 08, 2011 04:09 PM (hKbRi)

They don't care, they know they're lying.

79

Why bring religion into it?  We all know this happened because Brazil doesn't have high speed rail.

Seriously though, this is a horrible, disgusting crime.  Does it get any worse than murdering a bunch of school-kids?

80

"We're going to do a review of the procedures and the records in Waukesha before we certify the statewide results," Haas said.

"It's not that we necessarily expect to find anything criminal. But we want to make sure the public has confidence in the results,"

http://tinyurl.com/43xqfnr

Posted by: Tami at April 08, 2011 03:46 PM (VuLos

Something wicked is afoot.

 

Posted by: dananjcon at April 08, 2011 04:06 PM (pr+up)

 

Like I said yesterday, I'm not celebrating until Prosser is certified and sworn in.  To think the dems and the unions would just give this up is fantasy.  

81 The agency overseeing Wisconsin elections will not certify results of Tuesday's state Supreme Court race until it concludes a probe into how a county clerk misplaced and then found some 14,000 votes that upended the contest.

I imagine that will take all of a day.

Remember to save after you make changes in your spreadsheet.

82 There's a WI thread at the page top now.

83 #74 So why didn't he go on the child-killing shooting spree two years ago when he was a Jehovah? Wasn't he the same nut two years ago

Maybe he didn't have access to guns then.  Maybe he started planning it two years ago.   Maybe. . maybe. . maybe.

You can ask the same question of any killer/criminal. . .why didn't they do the same thing "x" years before. 

There is no way to know whether or not this guy would have become a mass murderer had he NOT converted to Islam. 

Its possible that he wouldn't have.  Or to put it differently, it certainly seems plausible that involvement with radical Islam was a contributing factor to his suicidal attack on innocent third parties.

But I don't know enough about his specific motivations to try and understand why he did what he did at this point in time.   If he was such a hardcore Islamist, why didn't he attack a synagogue or something like that?  

84 PP tells women where they can GO to get cancer screenings. Duh. Every library, school, post office, grocery store, etc in those slums tell you where you can get your free shit.

85 It's possible he was just an Islamic Jared Loughner, confused and lost from reality, and that his Islamism was more a symptom of his disease rather than the disease itself.

Most likely.

Schizzy types are pragmatic syncretists, mashing together ad hoc this-explains-everything!s from whatever bits of various systems or stories happen to fleetingly fill the gaps in their grasp on the world.

Their minds work more purely associationally than regular dudes', like, "Cardinals are red-robed, this Lost Tribe are called 'red Jews,' and Mars is the red planet, so the Church is run by Jews returned from Martian exile who start all wars. I see it!" If you think like that, everything does fit together, for fleeting moments, and for those moments, you feel better; you inhabit the world satisfactorily, seemingly rationally, briefly, until you don't again. It's psychological self-medication—that often follows the escalation pattern of opiate addiction.

Replace the "red" stuff there with associational affinities between the Jehovah's Witness and Muslim stuff he's been exposed to, repeat until totally nutso, and you (can) get a guy like the one in the story seems to be. His attachment to Islam may not be meaningful qua Islam (though I'd argue it is, because [boring shit omitted]), but the attachment exists, and its suppression is a story on its own.

Like you say.

86

If he was such a hardcore Islamist, why didn't he attack a synagogue or something like that?  

1. They hate everyone not just jews

2. He gained access to his old school by saying he was going to give a talk. They allowed him in. No synagogue would say, "Sure, dude with sketchy bumps in your pockets, come on in, we don't know you but we'll give you access to a room full of people because you want to do, what?"

3. Islam celebrates murder and death. Take a borderline personality and tell them that their destiny and paradise is assured by their murdering infidels and you get this.

4. He may have been borderline before BUT that's what borderline means--he is ok but easily pushed over the line. Islam did the pushing.

87 #75 

If this 23 year old Brazillian guy had posters of Sarah Palin all over his wall, that actually would be pretty bizarre. 


 

88 The media is wisely choosing not to shout fire in a crowded theater.  The world is brimming with crowded theaters these days. 

89 There are plenty of spammers in the world and only a few of them are Moslems. I guess we can't say arabIQ75 was driven to it by Islam.

90 I think MJ was more interested in one of Islam's sexual fringe benefits.


Which one--the pedophilia, the polygamy, or one of the many types of temporary marriage?

91 "Rambling and incoherent?"  You mean he was quoting the Koran?

92

A while back on some news article's comment section, someone asked the question-

"Can anyone tell me how the world WOULDN'T be a better place without Islam?"

 

I couldn't answer- I still can't. Almost every major religion offers something to the greater good of their society and the world at large- either through charities or proscriptions of doing good for fellow man.

Does Islam?

93 @95 for fellow Muslims, sure.  For infidels, join or die.

94 90 The media is wisely choosing not to shout fire in a crowded theater. The world is brimming with crowded theaters these days.

Posted by: Justice Breyer at April 08, 2011 04:27 PM (sOtz/)

The problem with that metaphor is that the theater is actually on fire.

95 I'm just waiting for someone else in government to point out that this guy used guns and that "we need more gun control." In Japan, when someone goes on a slaughter at the school run, he uses a knife. In England, youts stab each other with window glass, since knife sales are controlled. It's about the person inside, not weapons. Our government knows this, but wants to destroy the Bill of Rights.

96 I've made this point to friends several times, but the problem with religions and isms and ideologies is you can go insane without anybody realizing.

Lots of people go nuts. And most go nuts in a very individual and unique way -- like getting obsessed about an ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend.

When you go nuts in a unique-to-you way people notice and say, "Dude, you're freaking me out." And even you notice, at some level, that your behavior is kinda weird. Nobody else is freaking over this particular girl or guy and everybody has break-ups now and then and they move one with their life.

But when you get obsessed about religion and ideology, or get obsessed that your group X is persecuted by group Y -- then you find other people who support your crazed obsession. And you can move from animated-activist to crazed-nutjob without anybody noticing.

The fact that Islam explicitly justifies murder helps this process. Intense movements attract nutjobs. It gives their empty lives meaning. And it provides an order for their increasingly chaotic inner mental life. They may not be able to hold a job or maintain any human relationships -- but they can at least perceive the great big pulsating Good and Evil that their movement offers.

Plus the really good isms and religions have a nice clause that says if anybody says, "Dude, you're freaking me out." that means that they are an agent of Team Evil trying destroy Team Good. So anybody who tries to help you  just reinforces this Manichean paranoia.

So in this case we have a Brazilian case of Sudden Jihadi Syndrome. Some young dude goes nuts and spends all day reading about the persecution of Islam and decides to fight back. He's getting support from his fellow online jihadis. Meanwhile in the real world he changes his appearance and clothing and stops shaving, and nobody does or says anything.

All very sad. And I do think Islam is much more dangerous than any other religion or ism for attracting and amplifying insanity. So I don't mean this as a moral equivalence deal.

Anyway, here's to dudes going nutso in an easily spotted and unique manner.

97 Your other points are good, but your first paragraph is way too general. Everyone has an ideology of some stripe, simply by definition.

98 love peace.full lace wigs, lace front wigs  

99 12th Child Killed. We are awaiting the 12th Iman. Coincidence?

100 I'm an expat living in Rio and this guy I think was a jihad wanna be. Accounts here say the kid was facinated with terrorism since the 9/11 attacks and started visiting fanatical Muslim sites. He was adopted (real mother was a schizophrenic), a loner and big time blood and guts gamer. His nickname was Al Qaeda according to the local youth. One student present during the attack related that the shooter asked which girls were virgins and started shooting those that said they were. He used two revolvers (a .32 and a .3 with 8 speed loaders or so. Got off 60 plus shots, could have been a lot worse. A student running from the scene flagged down a police car and the policeman rushed to the scene. Entered the building immediately, ran in the direction of the shots where he had visual contact of the shooter and shot him straight away. No warning, drop your gun, reading of miranda rights... Quite a contrast to the Columbine circus of cowardly policing... I was surprised to hear of the Islam connection but I believe it is in a disturbed way with little understanding. Seems to be a nut job who happened to be attracted to fanatical Muslim violence. Brazil has lots of gun laws, but like most laws here they are just laws, with virtually no enforcement or selective enforcement after the crime. I think you could look at this incident as how fanatical Muslim propaganda can influence the truly unstable.

101 "Shut up," explained the nice man from MiniTru as he dropped the documents into the shredder.

102 And liberals and the UN will blame brazilians for voting to keep their guns