June 05, 2011
— Dave in Texas Is anybody in the Make Believe Media watching this thing we're carrying on in Libya?
British warplanes struck a military barracks in the capital Tripoli, while Apache helicopters were used against Gadhafi strongholds along the coast. Arab satellite channels say the deployment of attack helicopters has galvanized rebel fighters, while sapping the morale of Gadhafi loyalists.
Apache helicopters. I've heard of these. In fact, I see em almost every day running training sorties around my house here in central Texas close to Ft. Hood. I think I know what they can do and how they do it. In Libya.
Meanwhile Dennis Kucinich receives messages from space while the rest of the congress says "ok, uh, what is it again we're up to? Saving human lives in Libya from an oppressive regime? Is that it?"
...
Syria?
...
I'm still trying to understand how Obama gets a pass on this regarding Gaddafhi.....oh.. wait..
oil.
Ok I remember now.
Carry on NATO.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at
01:33 PM
| Comments (307)
Post contains 178 words, total size 1 kb.
"But, it's not an actual war. I mean, we don't have real soldiers there or anything."
To his credit, he's totally disappointed in Preznit Hopenchange, and said he'll just stay home in '12 rather than have to vote for Barky again.
Also, when I asked him his feelings on Afghanistan and Iraq (he knows our boy is going to Shitcanistan this winter) he couldn't form a coherent sentence.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 01:38 PM (UOM48)
The preznit's really gettin' into this killing thing.
Yeah!
Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at June 05, 2011 01:42 PM (4sQwu)
Posted by: Ms Choksondik at June 05, 2011 01:42 PM (UciSl)
We might be...
Russia: NATO 'one step' from land war in Libya
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 01:43 PM (c0A3e)
My husband just said the same exact thing. Nothing like a limp-wristed elitist do-nothing with the most powerful military on earth under his command to get his blood lust up.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 01:44 PM (UOM48)
As I said when this started:
No Blood for Oil!!!!.....
What? There's a Democrat in the Whitehouse?
And France is on board and they are actually the ones that would benefit from the oil?
Oh, uh Nevermind then.
Posted by: buzzion at June 05, 2011 01:45 PM (oVQFe)
Posted by: Prezident B. 'Gangsta' O-holla at your boy at June 05, 2011 01:46 PM (e2VMT)
Posted by: Col. Moammar Khaddafi at June 05, 2011 01:47 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Bob Saget has not been banned yet at June 05, 2011 01:47 PM (NLWij)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 01:48 PM (UOM48)
Assad is a monster. And he his doing all this in plain sight for the world to see. Conservative and non-conservative press alike ought to be pushing the Obama administration to take meaningful action against this murderous tyrant. Their is plenty we can do short of open war to aid the people in the streets.
Posted by: Serious Cat at June 05, 2011 01:49 PM (bAySe)
Wish you guys would get this straight, it ain't no war. It's a Kinetic Military Action, undertaken to prevent genocide by a dictator.
Posted by: irongrampa at June 05, 2011 01:49 PM (ud5dN)
Posted by: Spokesman for people in Syria at June 05, 2011 01:50 PM (e2VMT)
What happened to the post about the West Point cadet attacked by Patty LaBelle?
It just disappeard...
Posted by: ed at June 05, 2011 01:50 PM (Y2WVW)
Posted by: Patti LaBelle at June 05, 2011 01:51 PM (VXBR1)
I'm still trying to understand how Obama gets a pass on this regarding Gaddafhi.....oh.. wait..
oil.
But it's not our oil; we've went to war in Libya over Euro oil. That makes ignoring the War Powers Act and a UN mandate to "only" institute a no-fly zone (and Obama views UN resolutions and mandates as more sacred than the US Constitution) A-OK!
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 01:51 PM (c0A3e)
Also, when I asked him his feelings on Afghanistan and Iraq (he knows our boy is going to Shitcanistan this winter) he couldn't form a coherent sentence.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 05:38 PM (UOM4
This is why they're so easy to identify. It's a common trait among them.
Posted by: Tami at June 05, 2011 01:51 PM (X6akg)
Yes, the UK has Apaches.
You know what's interesting about this kinetic action?
We have no fucking idea how our forces are deployed, or what they're doing.
..
Except I do, because I'm connected to things like this on the downlow, yo.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at June 05, 2011 01:51 PM (Wh0W+)
Posted by: Marquis de Lafayette at June 05, 2011 01:52 PM (yrGif)
Posted by: irongrampa at June 05, 2011 05:49 PM (ud5dN)
Little help?
Posted by: Darfur at June 05, 2011 01:53 PM (BDsLk)
Posted by: USS Diversity at June 05, 2011 01:53 PM (RPYjQ)
I would not be at all surprised i we get to that stage by August if kudfucker is still in power as jef tries to put this behind him before the election season.
Posted by: nine coconuts at June 05, 2011 01:53 PM (uz3hs)
However, we're stretched thin in Shitcanistan and still have troops in Iraq. And now that bastard Mike Mullen is suggesting cutting military pay and benefits.
The all-volunteer military is getting fed up.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 01:53 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: War Protester if President was a Republican and not black at June 05, 2011 01:54 PM (e2VMT)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 01:55 PM (VXBR1)
Trash Constitution
Go to war for European oil
Profit
Posted by: S R Cozy at June 05, 2011 01:56 PM (yrGif)
Uh, err, um, because SHUT UP, that's why. Now, where's my fucking nine iron?
Posted by: General Gutsy Call at June 05, 2011 01:56 PM (UOM48)
<i>
I'm still trying to understand how Obama gets a pass on this regarding Gaddafhi.....oh.. wait..
oil.
</i>Melanin.
Same substance that gets Obama a pass on everything else.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 05, 2011 01:57 PM (aWrFJ)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 01:57 PM (7wmOW)
To make the Europeans feel important?
And speaking of Syrian mischief:
Israel Fires on Protesters at Border While Syrian Troops Attack Villagers
/Anyone want to take bets which country Sissypants will chide?
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 01:57 PM (c0A3e)
Posted by: Dr Spank at June 05, 2011 01:59 PM (1fB+3)
wasn't George Clooney saving Darfur anyway? I seem to recall him meeting with Obama about it. Because everyone knows that movie stars are totally awesome at diplomacy, or something.
Posted by: ParanoidWorkingGirlinSeattle at June 05, 2011 02:00 PM (RZ8pf)
Posted by: Not a Rapist at June 05, 2011 02:01 PM (e2VMT)
We should be thanking him.
.... and the Nobels
Posted by: ontherocks at June 05, 2011 02:03 PM (HBqDo)
Actually, if we'd gone into Libya at the very outset, it would have meant a week long live fire exercise. Great training.
Then a word to the Euros who are involved economically here, to wit--"Your ball , guys. See ya."
Posted by: irongrampa at June 05, 2011 02:03 PM (ud5dN)
Life has moved on without me.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 02:04 PM (piMMO)
You know, in the old days, we had ammo lockers full of stuff going back to WW II , or Korea and there was no problem getting rid of it and giving the boys a little combat flight time in the bargain. And we had re-boxed 1947 C-rats to make everybody feel like a soldier and the fuel was cheap and so...what the hell.
Today, the fuel's like gold, the ammo supply is being depleted and the resupply might have to be outsourced to China or Sweden or someplace, MRE's are expensive, the troops are getting more combat time in a couple of years than most of our guys did pulling twenty, AND NOBODY CAN TELL US THE EFFING POINT!
Oh, yeah. And people are being killed. Except for daffy, whom NATO is trying like hell to kill by accident. But not on purpose.
Do you have to be all anal and stuff to wonder if there's something not quite intelligent about all of this?
Posted by: Richard Aubrey at June 05, 2011 02:04 PM (wxHHM)
My husband tells me they're still convinced he's Teh Greatest President Evah and "just needs four more years to clean up Bush's mess."
I hate stupid people.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 02:05 PM (UOM48)
Indeed. And we cannot let Col Crazy in power now - he must be eliminated. The last time he was struck at and we let him live, he retaliated by blowing up an airliner.
What really makes this situation worse is that Col Crazy was behaving because of the aftermath of the Iraq invasion, dismantling his WMD programs among other things; now we've shown him that cooperating with Western regimes just leads to betrayal and back-stabbing. If Ghaddafi is not overthrown, he may go back to supporting the Islamists full-force with vengeance and revenge in his heart.
And his survival will demonstrate exactly how hollow NATO action is.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 02:05 PM (c0A3e)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 05:53 PM (UOM4
Don't re-up and recommend to any kid out there to not join up. And I'm serious. God Bless those kids/warriors that want to serve and fight but this shit is out of control. We are not spreading freedom and democracy, it's impossible to do in Islamic countries. Ten years of none stop fighting and unimaginable losses should prove that.
I'm no Ron Paul isolationist but after all this time, money and death we haven't accomplished shit. We don't have to be the one isolated, seal of the whole fuck'n Islamic/Arab world from everyone else.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 02:06 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 02:06 PM (7utQ2)
It's easy to spout theory on the evils of war and of genocide when you can then retire to your villa in the south of France with a swimsuit model.
He really put himself out there didn't he?
One of my all-time favorite South Park episodes was the one about "smug". George Clooney featured prominently.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 02:06 PM (piMMO)
What really makes this situation worse is that Col Crazy was behaving because of the aftermath of the Iraq invasion, dismantling his WMD programs among other things; now we've shown him and every other regime that cooperating with Western regimes just leads to betrayal and back-stabbing.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 02:07 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: Spanish Armada at June 05, 2011 02:07 PM (4Kl5M)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:08 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: Tom Cruise at June 05, 2011 02:08 PM (VXBR1)
I no longer even apologize for that fact. When you're young and lacking in genuine confidence, every opinion is tempered with a "I believe" or "In my opinion".
Not anymore. I'm old and fat and grumpy.
I can say, in the affirmative, I have no tolerance for stupid people. Even more for the foolish and vain which is just an awful terrible no-good combination of traits.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 02:09 PM (piMMO)
My husband tells me they're still convinced he's Teh Greatest President Evah and "just needs four more years to clean up Bush's mess."
I hate stupid people.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 06:05 PM (UOM4
You know, I wouldn't be at all surprised if your nephew was one of the friends of a certain brainless commenter here.
Posted by: buzzion at June 05, 2011 02:09 PM (oVQFe)
@50
Don't re-up and recommend to any kid out there to not join up. And I'm serious. God Bless those kids/warriors that want to serve and fight but this shit is out of control. We are not spreading freedom and democracy, it's impossible to do in Islamic countries. Ten years of none stop fighting and unimaginable losses should prove that.
--------------
Our son is already talking about getting out when his four years are up. This from a kid who dreamed of a career in the military since he was five.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 02:09 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: Tom Cruise at June 05, 2011 06:08 PM (VXBR1)
Weren't both of you like 5'2" (yes, past tense--the career, it is over).
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 02:10 PM (7utQ2)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:10 PM (7wmOW)
George Clooney Says Darfur Involvement 'Greatest Failure of My Life'
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 02:10 PM (c0A3e)
You know, I wouldn't be at all surprised if your nephew was one of the friends of a certain brainless commenter here.
Posted by: buzzion at June 05, 2011 06:09 PM (oVQFe)
Lol. Are you talking about my libtard NYC nephew? Because I'm "curious" about the same thing.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 02:11 PM (UOM48)
But how will the poor Appalachian's and the blacks find a way out of poverty? Without an all-poor, mostly-black and ignorant volunteer ranks, how could we EVER hope to assemble a military and fight the evils of being poor?
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 02:11 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 02:11 PM (7utQ2)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:11 PM (7wmOW)
Obama and his oil buddies are spilling blood for oil.
Posted by: De' Debil Hisself at June 05, 2011 02:12 PM (H+LJc)
How does Bambi get a pass on Libya and the answer is oil?
The oil goes to Europe, so it's not a vital US strategic interest.
How about it's purpose is to assist in creating democratic governments? Nah, that's simply bullshit.
Obama did a favor for France, stepped in way over his head, and is now stuck with a George Bush quagmire. Yeah, that's the ticket, a George Bush inspired Muslim uprising.
Posted by: Fish the Impaler at June 05, 2011 02:13 PM (cwFVA)
Posted by: t-bird at June 05, 2011 02:13 PM (FcR7P)
While this is true, they breed, consume and vote.
Posted by: sTevo at June 05, 2011 02:13 PM (VMcEw)
I dunno. Despite all the love for it, I hated him in O' Brother Where Art Thou?.
But geez do I LOVE the soundtrack.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 02:14 PM (piMMO)
I see what you did there.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 02:14 PM (7utQ2)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:14 PM (7wmOW)
Aside from Obama, there may not be another human being on the planet more enamored with themselves.
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at June 05, 2011 06:13 PM (vbh31)
Bono.
Posted by: buzzion at June 05, 2011 02:15 PM (oVQFe)
Some of us poor Appalachian woods rats did right well because of the military. In fact , you might say, there's a long unbroken history of it in the family.
Posted by: irongrampa at June 05, 2011 02:15 PM (ud5dN)
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 06:10 PM (c0A3e)
Wow. What a disgusting human being.
If his cause isn't working, it's not fashionable and if it's not fashionable, lose it.
I hope Clooney dies a painful death.
Posted by: ErikW at June 05, 2011 02:16 PM (BDsLk)
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at June 05, 2011 06:13 PM (vbh31)
Weiner?
Posted by: no thread is complete without him at June 05, 2011 02:16 PM (GfhFm)
Posted by: Tom Cruise at June 05, 2011 02:17 PM (VXBR1)
When the CinC doesn't care about the Constitution, is a dyed in the wool Marxist, elevates Euro-socialism above American democracy, avoids the word victory, hamstrings the troops with insane ROE, and neuters intelligence programs involving water, is not the time for young patriots to volunteer to serve their country. It scares the hell out of me to put this in print, because it is contrary to the responsibilities I believe that we have as citizens in this country. But the ruling class has abandoned every ethical principle to preserve their power and increase their fortunes, thus our responsibility to our leaders must be carefully measured if given at all.
The phrase "our lives, our fortunes, and our scared honor" is not written in a language the country club elites understand, or care to research.
Sad times.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 05, 2011 02:17 PM (yrGif)
Posted by: George Clooney at June 05, 2011 06:15 PM (cwFVA)
Here, let me help you with that.
Posted by: Tom Cruise at June 05, 2011 06:17 PM (VXBR1)
Oh my!
Posted by: George Takei at June 05, 2011 02:21 PM (BDsLk)
Posted by: CAC at June 05, 2011 02:22 PM (JEVge)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 06:08 PM (7wmOW)
No I do and that's part of the problem. There's a certain amount of people with this warrior mentality that want to be a part of the military. Hell they want to be part of the action. But are they asking themselves what the hell we're doing, what's the goal, the end game? I don't think so, if they did we would be having problems with enlistments. Going on ten years and still no problems getting young people to sign up.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 02:22 PM (GZitp)
I can't help but wonder if this might be the summer most thinking Americans have had enough of the flash and trash.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 05, 2011 02:22 PM (UOM48)
From what I understand, Our F-16s out of Aviano are flying most of the "No Fly" missions, which are really just for show since the Libyan AF is pretty much grounded at this point. They are also occasionally being used in ground attack roles, but it is in rotation with the Brits, French, and other Nato allies contributing. Brits and French are carrying out the majority of the interdiction sorties.
The Helicopters are British, and possibly some French, since they moved some into the region. Most of the rumored boots on the ground are under paramilitary auspices, working as contractors or seconded to Intelligence services- have not heard anything as to whether or not any are working for the US.
Most of the Recon and Intelligence flights are American, as are most of the C&C AWACS support- although NATO has had a squadron of these under their direct control since the Cold War.
Our Navy is heavily involved with the blockade and interdiction of possible weapons smuggling into Gaddafi territory.
FWIW, Gaddafi SHOULD have been neutralized in a matter of weeks. We failed to put ships right off the coastline, which would have eliminated the use of the coastal highways, pushing his forces into the wide open and not very hospitable interior. We have gone at this a bit half-assed. Our limited engagement plan is only serving to drag this out, and revolutions that drag out tend to become radicalized.
That said, Gaddafi needs to die. It will be the only saving grace for this charliefoxtrot.
Posted by: Gerry Owen at June 05, 2011 02:22 PM (4ABat)
Pa, I'm simply spouting off the leftist talking points about how only the poor and the ignorant black boys join up in order to get out of the slums. It was a mocking of their B.S.and I certainly meant no disrespect.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 02:23 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:24 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:25 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: Peaches at June 05, 2011 02:27 PM (afUO8)
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 06:22 PM (GZitp)
You should also know that people are also staying in if they can. For a whole hosts of reasons, people are NOT getting out.
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 06:24 PM (7wmOW)
I think the reason we have so many exceptional men and women still serving voluntarily is that patriotism is not necessarily based on pure logic, rather it is based on a love of country (as well as many other elements).
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 05, 2011 02:27 PM (yrGif)
Posted by: USS Diversity at June 05, 2011 02:29 PM (RPYjQ)
What's the *real* unemployment rate? Like, over 20%? That's got to have a little something to do with it.
Posted by: Peaches at June 05, 2011 02:29 PM (afUO8)
"rebels get closer to Tripoli each day, and shortages of everything increase in Kaddafi held territory"
Question: Is the MSM going to portray Obama as a military genius if the rebels win? [ArthurK]
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at June 05, 2011 02:30 PM (ujzsT)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:31 PM (7wmOW)
Israel and Japan have Apaches, too.
George Clooney wouldn't know what an Apache was if it tagged him with a flechette.
Posted by: PBoilermaker at June 05, 2011 02:31 PM (jU2vI)
I can only imagine if a Republican was president now, the on-going countdowns on tv and in the papers saying "Day XX and still no congressional authorization", multiple references to "Illegal War" and all the pleas for impeachment. Must be nice to be a dim president.
George Clooney Says Darfur Involvement 'Greatest Failure of My Life'
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 06:10 PM (c0A3e)
George must have slept through "Batman and Robin".
Posted by: Darth Randall at June 05, 2011 02:33 PM (O/onO)
Isn't it really a joke anytime he opens his mouth?
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 02:33 PM (piMMO)
Bullshit. The past 10 years have proven several things to Muslims:
1. American troops will slaughter their enemies with a level of ruthlessness equal to that of the most dedicated jihadi.
2. Loving death isn't enough to defeat American technology.
3. Islamists are far more destructive to Muslims than Americans.
4. Political freedom is possible in Muslim countries if the people are willing to fight for it.
5. Arab dictators are far more destructive to Muslims than Americans.
6. The U.S. doesn't establish puppet regimes.
7. Muslim nations are backward because they choose to be, not because of anything the rest of the world does to them.
And our losses are not "unimaginable." They're shockingly low, due to the most advanced training, skill, tactics, armor, and medical treatment in the world. We're actually winning this Long War.
I'd go so far as to say we've probably already won it.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 02:33 PM (SI/pw)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:35 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 02:35 PM (VXBR1)
I wish one prominent political leader would recognize this and start questioning our policies. And I'm not talking Dennis or Ron.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 02:35 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 05:43 PM (c0A3e)
I'm so old I thought Russia was threatening war against NATO.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 02:35 PM (1fanL)
Calling BS on that on. What do you call BHO organization?
Posted by: sTevo at June 05, 2011 02:36 PM (VMcEw)
Did you miss the fact that we helped Muslims create two in the past 10 years?
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 02:37 PM (SI/pw)
Aside from Obama, there may not be another human being on the planet more enamored with themselves.
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at June 05, 2011 06:13 PM (vbh31)
Bono.
Posted by: buzzion at June 05, 2011 06:15 PM (oVQFe)
Also featured prominently in a South Park episode, also freakin' hilarious. Parker and Stone aren't shy about picking the low-hanging fruit.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 02:38 PM (1fanL)
Calling BS on that on. What do you call BHO organization?
No clue what you're saying. Sorry.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 02:38 PM (SI/pw)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 02:39 PM (VXBR1)
Posted by: SomeWhereSouthWest at June 05, 2011 02:39 PM (CyPWX)
Maybe a military Moron can clue me in but back in my younger days I tried to join the Navy in the early 90's but wasn't allowed because I had asthma.
Now granted, I wouldn't want to be a liability to the team but are our armed forces so specialized that even a minor illness is prohibitive?
Posted by: ErikW at June 05, 2011 02:39 PM (BDsLk)
There's really no need for Russia to threaten war against NATO, as all the Russikes need to do to incapacitate many NATO countries is cut off their energy supplies.
/That's pretty much the only card the Russians have, given the deplorable state of the Russian military.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 02:39 PM (c0A3e)
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 06:33 PM (SI/pw)
Won it? We ain't done shit. The homeland is possibly more secure due to intelligence and protocol not because of anything we've done in Iraq or Afghanistan.
How long do you propose we keep this shit up?
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 02:39 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Lemon Kitten at June 05, 2011 02:41 PM (0fzsA)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:42 PM (7wmOW)
Unimaginable losses. Unimaginable losses?
The Battle of Paschendaele in WWI. 500,000-700,000 dead. Five months.
Unimaginable? Inigo Montoya just emailed.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 02:43 PM (1fanL)
Well that's just wrong
This is what the Muslim world is seeing on the Internet. They had no idea that our troops could match jihadis in dealing death:
http://tinyurl.com/3umwf26
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 02:45 PM (SI/pw)
Been out most of the day, so sorry if this was already mentioned, but:
DailyMail (UK):
DOW plunges into longest weekly losing streak since 2004 as Obama blames 'Europe, earthquake and gas prices' for economic woe (weekly radio addy)
Like his words to Chrysler workers, Obama's address did not mention the bleak unemployment numbers announced Friday for the month of May. The Bureau of Labor Statistics said the economy last month created only a net 54,000 jobs and unemployment inched up to 9.1 percent.
'We're facing some tough headwinds,' Obama said.
'Lately, it's high gas prices, the earthquake in Japan and unease about
the European fiscal situation. That will happen from time to time.'
Posted by: momma at June 05, 2011 02:46 PM (nWikJ)
I looked into joining the military about 2 years ago. It turned out the fact that I get eczema is basically unwaiverable. At first I though it was bs, but after doing some research I found studies of people in the military that developed some pretty gruesome problems because of it.
Posted by: LIGuy at June 05, 2011 02:47 PM (Ywlw2)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:48 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: LIGuy at June 05, 2011 06:47 PM (Ywlw2)
Weird how a military desperate for recruits is so picky.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 02:49 PM (1fanL)
You're just factually wrong. Sorry.
How long do you propose we keep this shit up?
"We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be."
--Winston Churchill
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 02:49 PM (SI/pw)
My libidiot brother (I love with all my heart, just hate his politics) said nothing to me when he saw my 'Don't Tread On Me' t-shirt.
He knows he has no argument.
This is a very good sign.
Posted by: momma at June 05, 2011 02:49 PM (nWikJ)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:50 PM (7wmOW)
http://tinyurl.com/3umwf26
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 06:45 PM (SI/pw)
They know what we're capable of, that doesn't stop them. The Taliban is proff enough of that. They're plenty of Jihadist to take their place. And it's not like the Democrats claimed a short three years ago that we're creating them by being there. It's because of their beliefs. Until we're ready to speak and act on some hard truths about Islam nothing is going to get better.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 02:51 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 06:49 PM (SI/pw)
But I'm tired of hearing about the war.
Posted by: We Win, They Lose at June 05, 2011 02:51 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 06:42 PM (7wmOW)
I have no desirable specialties, unfortunately.
Ah well, I can at least support our girls and guys in a civilian capacity. 
Posted by: ErikW at June 05, 2011 02:52 PM (BDsLk)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 06:50 PM (7wmOW)
You caught that, huh? Need to work on my /sarc.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 02:52 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 02:54 PM (7wmOW)
--Winston Churchill
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 06:49 PM (SI/pw)
That would be great if victory was our aim but it's not. Our aim, as far as I can tell, is to spread freedom and democracy to people that don't really want it.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 02:55 PM (GZitp)
After the Second Battle of Fallujah in 2004, the insurgents never again chose to face U.S. troops in battle. They relied on IEDs and EFPs instead.
The same thing is happening in Afghanistan. The Taliban doesn't want to fight U.S. troops anymore. The Taliban spring offensive is a total bust.
The U.S. armed forces are now recognized by Muslims as the best fighters in the world. Prior to 2001, that opinion wasn't widely held.
Look at some of the footage coming out of Libya. Lots of the rebels are wearing U.S. Marine style "high and tight" haircuts. Unprecedented in the Arab world.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 02:55 PM (SI/pw)
Posted by: davidt at June 05, 2011 02:56 PM (GfhFm)
Can we please decide if this is a war or not?
Posted by: Dianna at June 05, 2011 02:56 PM (mKMj1)
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 06:49 PM (1fanL)
Well they are NOT really desperate for recruits.
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 06:50 PM (7wmOW)
I guess that was kinda my point too.
I walk at least five miles a day just because of my job and while I don't have the physique of an 18 year old anymore, I'm fairly healthy and I'm not particularly stupid either.
Posted by: ErikW at June 05, 2011 02:57 PM (BDsLk)
Spreading democracy is a strategic aim. It has a specific context. It's not being done just to be nice and cool. When people are democratized, you don't go to war with them, and victory is achieved.
Do you seriously think we'll ever go to war with Iraq again?
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 02:58 PM (SI/pw)
Indefinitely or,
Until Muslims change Islam or,
Until the Acme Anti-Anti-US Autonomous De-Turbanator Micro-Drone program is in full deployment.
They started it >1400 years ago. What's the hurry to win it in <100?
Posted by: Dave at June 05, 2011 02:58 PM (4SET8)
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 05, 2011 02:58 PM (Z05lF)
Yet for ten fucking years we've been chasing them around the shit hole of Afghanistan. If they don't want to fight we are we still there?
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 02:58 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 03:00 PM (VXBR1)
Posted by: t-bird at June 05, 2011 03:00 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: chemjeff at June 05, 2011 03:00 PM (7mSYS)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 03:00 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at June 05, 2011 03:01 PM (6IReR)
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 06:58 PM (SI/pw)
Well not when we're still there what happens when we leave, I got no idea. But as long as this fundamentalist breed of Islam keeps growing I wouldn't bet against it.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 03:01 PM (GZitp)
First of all, make sure you didn't upload a picture of your junk.
Posted by: Tony W. at June 05, 2011 03:01 PM (JEvSn)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 03:02 PM (VXBR1)
Posted by: t-bird at June 05, 2011 03:02 PM (FcR7P)
Couple of points. There are no "Muslim democracies" because Islam forbids democracy. Not kidding, read the fucking book. There are a few democracies consisting mainly of Muslims, though they are never stable, as the past shows.
As to what Muslims have learned (to be specific Muslims in Muslim nations fighting against the West), we are talking about a people with a culturally-driven learning disorder. Their faith forbids innovation in ideas (again, read the fucking book), and though some progress is made here and there it always seems to revert.
As pessimistic as I sound, I do have hope. But we aren't going to "win" this one, we're going to *control* it until it burns out. What we choose to do can affect how destructive that control is, and no, I don't have the answers, I can barely see the questions.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 05, 2011 03:02 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 03:04 PM (7wmOW)
That's not true at all. The Taliban have totally changed their war fighting by switching to IEDs and sniping. They no longer try to face U.S. forces on the battlefield.
The Colombians defeated FARC, and the Sri Lankans defeated the Tamil Tigers. Both took 30 years.
Bush said this would take decades. He wasn't kidding around.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:05 PM (SI/pw)
105 Military was great way to see the world and perform many menial cleaning tasks in exotic locales
yeah, consider that right there stolen
FIELD DAY!!!!
Posted by: navycopjoe at June 05, 2011 03:05 PM (R7NIt)
Just who, pray tell, does this sound like?
I don't recall anyone stalking the ones you mentioned or their children. I don't recall massive world-wide smears and filthy personal attacks of those people. People in the generations you mentioned were more civil and adhered to a social standard. The degenerate generation we have now is no different than a crazed muslim gang stoning a young girl for entering a beauty pageant.
Ken. Is that you?!
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 03:06 PM (piMMO)
its really weird.
like my life has gotten even MORE surreal which i didnt really think was possible. Anyway hes ok and back to work and i told him when he gets home we are goin to Disneyland.
Posted by: Gushka at June 05, 2011 03:07 PM (93zw2)
That doesn't mean that they
a) don't still want to kill the infidel (US miltitary or civilian)
b) don't mind using suicide bombs and IEDs to kill indiscriminately
c) want anything other than an islamic theocracy and want nothing to do with anything that represents a functional democracy
d) don't have the ability and desire to wage an asymmetric long war
e) desire the trappings of civilization.
Can US troops alter any of these tallybon attributes without an unbelievable sacrifice in blood and treasure in anything short of a century? I think not, especially given the ROE that precludes us fighting a total war (see Dresden and Hiroshima for examples).
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 05, 2011 03:07 PM (yrGif)
From your keyboard to God's monitor!
Posted by: Dianna at June 05, 2011 03:08 PM (mKMj1)
NCJ you just made me spit coffee laughing.
Posted by: Gushka at June 05, 2011 03:09 PM (93zw2)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 07:04 PM (7wmOW)
The most likely solution, but not the only one. 100, maybe 120 years.
Not joking.
Depends on what happens to Europe. If Europe develops an immune system, this could work. If Europe falls, we could be looking at a genuine WWIII scenario.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 05, 2011 03:09 PM (bxiXv)
Ken. Is that you?!
Can't be Ken. It's too funny.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:10 PM (7utQ2)
No. I said ruthlessly slaughter their enemies. Innocent civilians aren't our enemies.
Read up on the Second Battle of Fallujah. When our troops encountered buildings full of terrorists, they would level the structure with SMAWs. If terrorists wearing suicide belts were found alive in the rubble, the EOD squads would treat them as unexploded ordnance, meaning they would put C4 on them and blow them up.
That really made an impression on the Muslim world. We lost 69 troops in Fallujah, while we killed up to 2000 terrorists. As in the Pacific in World War II, prisoners were rarely taken, because the enemy refused to surrender.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:10 PM (SI/pw)
Posted by: Gushka at June 05, 2011 07:07 PM (93zw2)
G: Give your non-existent friend involved in doing nothing that we are glad to hear he is ok and wish him well.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 05, 2011 03:11 PM (yrGif)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 06:54 PM (7wmOW)
No sorries at AOSHQ.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 03:12 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: Gushka at June 05, 2011 07:07 PM (93zw2)
Good luck to your pal and may that day come soon.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 05, 2011 03:12 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 05, 2011 03:13 PM (Z05lF)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 03:13 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 06:54 PM (7wmOW)
No sorries.at AOSHQ.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 07:12 PM (1fanL)
That is, of course, the primary tell of the RINO/
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:13 PM (7utQ2)
All these complaints were made about Iraq, too. "What's the mission? Why are we there? How long is it gonna take? Are we there yet?"
The mission is to stay until we've created a government and armed forces that can defend Afghanistan from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
How hard is that to understand?
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:13 PM (SI/pw)
While I can't fault anyone for hating higher taxes, it's just charming the way they think they are perfectly acceptable for the other guy.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 03:14 PM (piMMO)
Problem is, it ain't gonna burn out. The only way it is gonna burn out is when "they" are all gone?
What the Middle East really needs is a reformist movement for Islam itself. As has been mentioned here many times, and as Winston Churchill so eruditely observed, there are many wonderful individual Muslims, but the faith itself is very retrograde. Also, whenever Islam as a whole encounters a problem, the tendency is to convert back to a "purer" form of Islam.
If and how such a thing might be accomplished, I have no farking clue.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 03:15 PM (c0A3e)
Tell that to these guys:
http://tinyurl.com/3bkjvga
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:15 PM (SI/pw)
right now hes been getting in fights i guess with some regularity so he must be healin up and feeling froggy. I keep promising him things like steaks, disneyland and the company of young attractive massage therapists with big boobs. I figure if that doesnt motivate a man what will?he would fit in with all the rest of the morons
Posted by: Gushka at June 05, 2011 03:15 PM (93zw2)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 03:16 PM (7wmOW)
Not to be a fly in the ointment, Kratos, but when the Christian Reformation came along, it resulted in a pretty solid century and a half of interdenominational warfare.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:17 PM (7utQ2)
My dear, I do believe that you have learned the way to a man's heart.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 05, 2011 03:17 PM (yrGif)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 03:18 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 03:18 PM (VXBR1)
Not to be a fly in the ointment, Kratos, but when the Christian Reformation came along, it resulted in a pretty solid century and a half of interdenominational warfare.
Yes, and yes.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 03:19 PM (c0A3e)
How hard is that to understand?
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 07:13 PM (SI/pw)
Who are these enemies of Afghanistan you're talking about? And why is any of that our concern? What you suggest is nation building, a government we've created? Who are we to create anybodies government? Up until recently when has this been the conservative or even the American policy? So no I don't understand, I don't get it at all.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 03:19 PM (GZitp)
If there are any pieces of terrorists too big for a kitchen sponge to clean up it means we didn't do it right.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 03:19 PM (2dbd9)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 07:17 PM (7utQ2)
Heh. And Kratos? I hate to tell you this, but I think what the Middle East needs is...decadence!
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 03:20 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: Gushka at June 05, 2011 07:07 PM (93zw2)
Damn, how does someone get shot nowhere near where people are shooting at each other?
Please, tell him thanks for whatever it is he's not doing, and I'll keep him in my prayers.
Posted by: Steph at June 05, 2011 03:20 PM (AkdC5)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 03:22 PM (7wmOW)
My kitchen is known as "the crew lounge" where there is coffee and usually some sort of cookies or somethin goin all the time. We got a BBQ and i got a daughter who is 22 and looks like barbie and shes got FRIENDS. I have a stable and the horses attract girls like flies.
Let me just say, between the girls, steaks and the GINORMOUS TV, if you build it they will come.
Its usually a stunning surprise when i have a weekend to myself!
So yeah i know what to do to unwind a guy after deployment. This is not my first rodeo.
Posted by: Gushka at June 05, 2011 03:22 PM (93zw2)
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 07:19 PM (GZitp)
Straight out of the Vietnam. We're not morally worthy to do it! You realize you've been playing the Vietnam unilateral-surrendernik?
We can win, or we can lose.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 03:22 PM (1fanL)
From what I read, the Taliban has pretty much determined that it can't win back Afghanistan by force of arms. Also, their IEDs are rapidly losing their effectiveness as we apply what we learned in Iraq.
The really fascinating aspect about Afghanistan is the top-secret methods used by our side to identify terrorists using what's essentially data mining. Gen. McChrystal created teams of civilian geeks and military black-ops killers who target the financiers, gun runners, IED builders, recruiters...
Just because the fighting continues doesn't mean the war may not already be won. We had defeated the Japanese after Midway, but there were still two years of fighting to go.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:23 PM (SI/pw)
It was a hell of a lot funnier than just that. He claimed that Palin had risen above more adversity than anyone in the past 250 years.
Yeah. A laugh riot.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 03:24 PM (piMMO)
Yeah, I'm skeptical about Afghanistan but that is a whopping case of historical myopia you've got going there. Remember what happened the last time there was total safehaven in Afghanistan for that recently deceased guy with the beard and his buddies? Airplanes? Tall buildings? Lots of dead Americans? Remember that?
You can be conservative and not be a dumbass, you know.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:24 PM (7utQ2)
Tell that to these guys:
http://tinyurl.com/3bkjvga
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 07:15 PM (SI/pw)
I see no problem there.
Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at June 05, 2011 03:25 PM (6IReR)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 03:26 PM (7wmOW)
Amen.
Kill everyone armed and with bad attitude.
Soon they'll get a better attitude and unarmed or they'll be dead and their pal allah can handle it from there.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 03:26 PM (2dbd9)
You know what? There's absolutely no way I can explain it to you.
My advice to you?
Don't worry about it. Put it out of your mind. Let it forever remain a mystery, like what happens after we die. Concentrate on things you can understand.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:26 PM (SI/pw)
Heh. And Kratos? I hate to tell you this, but I think what the Middle East needs is...decadence!
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 07:20 PM (1fanL)
Or LauraW's jelly, works for Me. Smooth like Glass would be better.
Posted by: SomeWhereSouthWest at June 05, 2011 03:26 PM (CyPWX)
We can win, or we can lose.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 07:22 PM (1fanL)
What is the win? Is everyone over there just going to decide Islam isn't the way to go? Are we going to somehow topple Islamic ideology and rule like we did with the USSR? Do you think these Islamic nations are going to become a hybrid of Islam and democracy like China is with Communism and capitalism?
I don't think so, nothing has shown me that it will.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 03:27 PM (GZitp)
It was a hell of a lot funnier than just that. He claimed that Palin had risen above more adversity than anyone in the past 250 years.
Yeah. A laugh riot.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 07:24 PM (piMMO)
Made me wince, then I burst out laughing. Some people have, um, issues.
Posted by: Steph at June 05, 2011 03:28 PM (AkdC5)
lol. The Muslims in the Middle East do engage in plenty of decadence. Problem is, this indulgence is so one-sided.
(I think I've told this story plenty of times, so skip it if you've already heard it - my apologies in advance).
My Navy friend was stationed in Bahrain for several years. He told me that after Friday prayers, Muslims from Saudi Arabia would pile on boats and head to Bahrain (while wives and girl-friends stayed at home, of course) for an epic weekend of partying and decadence. Supposedly, Allah couldn't see what these pious Muslims were doing while in Bahrain.
When women can walk around Riyadh and Tehran uncovered without fear of harassment, we'll know we're making some progress. Until then...
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 03:29 PM (c0A3e)
Why stop there? Let's make it since Charlemagne.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:30 PM (7utQ2)
You can be conservative and not be a dumbass, you know.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 07:24 PM (7utQ2)
So the only fucking answer is keep fighting over there? How about we seal our country up to any persons from any Islamic Nation? How's that for addressing the problem? Or maybe think of something else, what we're doing isn't working.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 03:31 PM (GZitp)
Me, either. But you have to admit that using 30mm cannons on four unarmed men walking along the street is ruthless.
From what I understand those men had just carried out an attack and were casually sauntering away. Before General Petraeus took over, the rules of engagement would not have allowed the Apache pilot to shoot them, because they were unarmed. Petraeus changed the ROE.
Petraeus, by the way, is utterly ruthless. He drove the Iranian Qods Force out of Iraq by targeting them with special-operations troops. He fully supports the drone strikes in Pakistan. He's a stone-cold killer, which is the type of person we need leading our troops.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:32 PM (SI/pw)
The day when the oppressed women of the muz world rise up together and castrate their men will be the turning point.
As long as the barbarians have an oppressed population of frightened women and goats with which to breed we cannot wipe out the ideology.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 03:33 PM (2dbd9)
So the only fucking answer is keep fighting over there? How about we seal our country up to any persons from any Islamic Nation? How's that for addressing the problem? Or maybe think of something else, what we're doing isn't working.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 07:31 PM (GZitp)
This
Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 05, 2011 03:33 PM (yQWNf)
Amen.
Kill everyone armed and with bad attitude.
Soon they'll get a better attitude and unarmed or they'll be dead and their pal allah can handle it from there.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 07:26 PM (2dbd9)
Kill every man, woman and child. They're all raised as terrorists in that region.
Posted by: ErikW at June 05, 2011 03:33 PM (BDsLk)
Damned if we're gonna land the chopper and shoot the bastards with a pistol to make it fair.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 03:34 PM (2dbd9)
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 07:26 PM (SI/pw)
You know I've been pretty reasonable with you even when your answers are nothing but vague slogan-ism. Don't tell me I don't understand it, you seem to be the one that doesn't what to solve this problem. You're only solution is endless war.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 03:34 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 07:32 PM (SI/pw)
Stone cold killer? I prefer to see a warrior, although I might prefer stone cold killer if it meant we could make an ashtray out of the damn place.
Posted by: Steph at June 05, 2011 03:34 PM (AkdC5)
Not even close. Kill the armed and the hostile.
We didn't kill every Japanese or every Italian or every German.
We don't have to be monsters.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 03:35 PM (2dbd9)
Now Steph,don't you know your opinion is of no importance around here? Didn't Undead make that clear in the earlier thread?
wink
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 03:36 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 07:33 PM (2dbd9)
Damn is that how they are replenishing their herds? Well, that's one scientific accomplishment by the muzzies.
Posted by: Steph at June 05, 2011 03:36 PM (AkdC5)
The answer is to win.
How about we seal our country up to any persons from any Islamic Nation?
Got a way to seal up our country to nuclear weapons from any Islamic Nation?
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:36 PM (7utQ2)
Since when is war and combat anything BUT ruthless?
Posted by: Unclefacts Luxury-Yacht at June 05, 2011 03:36 PM (6IReR)
You keep saying that what we're doing isn't working, but you're wrong. Insurgencies are almost always defeated. It usually takes about 10 years.
We defeated the Iraq insurgency in less than half that time. Afghanistan will take longer. But we're already well on the way to defeating the Taliban.
The next two years will determine whether or not we win.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:37 PM (SI/pw)
Posted by: Dr Strangelove at June 05, 2011 03:37 PM (7wmOW)
This, by the way, is the kind of mindless twaddle that the left peddled during the Cold War.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:37 PM (7utQ2)
History tell us what works and what doesn't. All we need is the will and the time.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 03:38 PM (2dbd9)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 07:36 PM (7utQ2)
That's the third time I've heard that answer, what is this win? They are not going to give up Islam.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 03:38 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: NFL Owners at June 05, 2011 03:40 PM (7wmOW)
That's the third time I've heard that answer, what is this win? They are not going to give up Islam.
No kidding. I still haven't given it up.
Posted by: Barky Obumbles at June 05, 2011 03:41 PM (zgZzy)
There is no 30-day solution. The muz have hundreds of years of teaching we need to overcome.
We need to kill the most radical, isolate the backwards, free the women and children, and teach the teachable.
It's gonna take longer than watching a Super Bowl.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 03:41 PM (2dbd9)
Posted by: NFL Owners at June 05, 2011 03:42 PM (7wmOW)
The only reasons to fail in counterinsurgency are a) you're stupid or b) you give up.
We're not stupid.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:42 PM (7utQ2)
lol. Perhaps we'll see that day yet.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 05, 2011 03:43 PM (c0A3e)
Since when is war and combat anything BUT ruthless?
How about the Cola Wars? Although Dr. Pepper was a tad snarky.
Posted by: Pepsi and Coke at June 05, 2011 03:43 PM (zgZzy)
wink
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 07:36 PM (piMMO)
I guess I have to watch that. I forgot I am incapable of independent thought, am perpetually scowling and humourless.
Posted by: Steph at June 05, 2011 03:43 PM (AkdC5)
Posted by: Lorena Bobbit at June 05, 2011 03:43 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: Chrissy Matthews at June 05, 2011 03:44 PM (zgZzy)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 03:44 PM (VXBR1)
Posted by: some asshole at June 05, 2011 03:45 PM (JcDGi)
And are apparently some kind of effing Limey.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:45 PM (7utQ2)
Petraeus's methods worked in Iraq and they're working in Afghanistan.
I read an article years ago that he authorized special-operations forces to hit Iranian "diplomatic" convoys in Iraq because they were ferrying around Qods Force agents. After three convoys were hit and everyone in them killed, the Qods Force left Iraq.
I also saw a photo of some bare-headed, long-haired European-looking troops in gray coveralls with shoulder badges pixelated. I was never able to identify them, but I've read that Petraeus asked for every western country to send its elite troops to Iraq to kill as many of the terrorists as possible.
Afghanistan is known as the "Special Forces Olympics" because just about every nation in the world except for China and Russia has sent its special-operations troops there to get experience. Tons of Arab nations have troops there, killing the Taliban.
The newest bunch? Colombians, fresh off their victory over FARC.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:46 PM (SI/pw)
Circa, we've been at this for 10 years. We haven't won. We cant' stay. We can't get out without the situation devolving into something at least as bad as it was before.
You can't win, Rocky!!!
Posted by: Adrian Balboa at June 05, 2011 03:46 PM (zgZzy)
Teams of bitchy, gossipy, PMS-ridden crazy cat ladies should be trained and dropped into muz countries to foment man-hatred and revolution.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 03:46 PM (2dbd9)
We need to kill the most radical, isolate the backwards, free the women and children, and teach the teachable.
It's gonna take longer than watching a Super Bowl.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 07:41 PM (2dbd9)
But we're not teaching anybody, we're not freeing the women and children. We stuck with political leaders that assume these people think like us and want the same things as we do. We aren't fighting the underlying problem of Islam and Islamic countries, we're glossing it over. It started with Bush and continues with Obama with this "religion of peace" horseshit.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 03:47 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Demi Moore at June 05, 2011 03:48 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 07:45 PM (7utQ2)
heh. Well, yeah, sometime way back when , so there must be a little bit still hanging on.
Posted by: Steph at June 05, 2011 03:48 PM (AkdC5)
Yeah, there's a position--let's bug out, what can possibly go wrong?
And yes, the Cold War analogy holds. I heard this about NATO itself repeatedly throughout the 70s and 80s.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:48 PM (7utQ2)
Posted by: C. Everett Koop at June 05, 2011 03:49 PM (zgZzy)
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 07:46 PM (2dbd9)
NOW to the rescue! Oh, wait.
Posted by: Steph at June 05, 2011 03:49 PM (AkdC5)
Teams of bitchy, gossipy, PMS-ridden crazy cat ladies should be trained and dropped into muz countries to foment man-hatred and revolution.
Reporting for duty!
Posted by: The Real Housewives Of New Jersey at June 05, 2011 03:50 PM (zgZzy)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:51 PM (7utQ2)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 03:51 PM (VXBR1)
There was one major difference. Communism was an alien intrusion into Russian (and Chinese) life. Chinese and Slavic Russians, like mainlander Americans, are a conservative bunch. Marxism was cooked up by a bunch of German, French, Jewish and English hipsters and had no roots in Russian soil, much less Chinese.
Islam by contrast was founded as an Arab religion, and over centuries was fine-tuned to help Arabs rule over others.
It was inevitable that Communism would fail in China and Russia. Village life with a Tsar "far away from us" works for them. (I'd argue that it might work pretty well for Americans, too, but maybe that's just me.)
Islam might fail in Iran and Indonesia. But Islam can't fail in Arab lands; not unless something more appealing comes up. I have a dark suspicion that what's more appealing to Arabs would be even more barbaric.
Posted by: Zimriel at June 05, 2011 03:52 PM (pl1+G)
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at June 05, 2011 03:52 PM (NITzp)
Muslims will not stop. It isn't going to happen. They are like Whack-a-moles.You whack one and two more pop up in their place.
By the pen or by the sword, and the fuckers like to breed.
I take solace in the fact that their path to paradise is so fucking fragile that another man, even an infidel, can block their path to entry. THAT is how I know their God is not my God.
With my God, no man can stand between me and my creator.
Bring on the pig -fat ammo.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 03:52 PM (piMMO)
Circa, are you proposing that the US military remain in Iraq in perpetuity? How are we going to pay for that?
aren't we in like 80 countries? Maybe we can close some of our European bases finally.
Posted by: Ben at June 05, 2011 03:52 PM (DKV43)
Every time our medics bandage a child's foot or help deliver a baby we have a chance to change the future.
Every time our people kill a bomb maker or sniper we change the world.
The ripples we are sending out from there will make a difference.
Mohamhead was a lying, thieving, blood-thirsty,woman-hating, cowardly pederast on drugs who made up a whole death cult out of spare parts and crazy. The ripples that little bastard sent out are still fucking with us to this day.
I'd like to see the war against the muz religion be called what it is, but the world is too pussified for a Crusade, however needed.
So we chip away at the stone with a scalpel instead of dynamite. But we are chipping away.
Posted by: sifty at June 05, 2011 03:54 PM (2dbd9)
And yes, the Cold War analogy holds. I heard this about NATO itself repeatedly throughout the 70s and 80s.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 07:48 PM (7utQ2)
Doesn't that tell you we're not doing something right? That after ten years we still can't leave with everything falling apart? I guess we just don't see it the same way. I think we need to take another tack with Islam and the people from Islamic nations, you think we just need more time. So far they're going to do it your way.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 03:54 PM (GZitp)
Funny. You accuse me of sloganeering, and then you use the slogan "endless war."
You said yourself you don't understand what's happening. I don't have it in me to explain it to you. Sorry. To me, this is all very self-evident. I lack your confusion, angst, or ambiguity over it.
To me, this war is as straight forward as World War II. I can't empathize with your point of view that fighting it is somehow illegitimate.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 03:55 PM (SI/pw)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 07:51 PM (VXBR1)
Yeah, that's crazy talk!
Posted by: Germany at June 05, 2011 03:55 PM (1fanL)
Come again? I did not say that and thanks for the "OMG MCCAIN SAID 100 YEARS" moment.
Until we have some, what shall I call it....clarity in Iran, it's a pretty good idea to hang out for a bit longer, don't you think?
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 03:55 PM (7utQ2)
Posted by: Joe the Cussing Pastor at June 05, 2011 03:55 PM (yG/qX)
Posted by: Steph at June 05, 2011 03:55 PM (AkdC5)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 07:51 PM (VXBR1)
Completely insane, you tell 'em Bugler!
Posted by: South Korea at June 05, 2011 03:55 PM (1fanL)
Posted by: sexypig at June 05, 2011 03:56 PM (UmEOs)
Nope. As I said, I can't fault him for hating the higher taxes. It's just funny that the left is always more than happy to raise taxes for everybody else.
Posted by: Clueless at June 05, 2011 03:57 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 03:57 PM (VXBR1)
Posted by: nevergiveup at June 05, 2011 03:57 PM (7wmOW)
Posted by: Bugler at June 05, 2011 07:51 PM (VXBR1)
Get 'im Bugler, there's just no way in hell!
Posted by: Japan at June 05, 2011 03:58 PM (1fanL)
What is to discuss? You're playing semantic games for a gotcha moment.
If you want to talk about what our forces actually need to look like and where they should be, yeah--we need to do some heavy thinking there. But I can guarantee you this: If we execute a precipitous withdrawal from Iraq and/or Afghanistan, we'll be shooting our way back in within 36 months.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 04:01 PM (7utQ2)
Posted by: dataMinerGeek at June 05, 2011 04:01 PM (vXagV)
You do know if we leave Germany, South Korea and Japan they're not going to start some internal tribal civil war to see what flavor of Islamic leadership will rule don't you?
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 04:01 PM (GZitp)
And that is not what those forces are there for.
Are you advocating withdrawal from everywhere?
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 04:03 PM (7utQ2)
We should have used the successful blueprint of our efforts post-WWII. Ban Shintoism, ban NAZIism and setup governments according to what WE declared, not what the Japanese/Germans wanted.
You can't really apply what was done in Germany and Japan to Iraq and Afghanistan. For one thing, we had fought total wars against those nations and utterly defeated them militarily and industrially, with the blessing of the free world.
There was no chance we could impose constitutions on Iraq and Afghanistan. Doing so would've confirmed to the Muslim world that we had launched wars of conquest. As bad as the insurgencies were/are, the majority of people in Iraq and Afghanistan stayed on the fence. If we had imposed our own will on those countries, we would've pushed majorities of the population over to the side of the insurgents.
When the French occupied Algeria, they used every weapon in their arsenal to try and put down the insurgency. The French had a KIA rate three times ours. The Russians utterly flattened Chechnya in two wars and had a KIA rate 10 times ours.
I go back to what Bush said: This war will last for decades. Not "a decade." Decades, meaning multiple 10-year periods.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 04:12 PM (SI/pw)
And that is not what those forces are there for.
Are you advocating withdrawal from everywhere?
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 08:03 PM (7utQ2)
No what I'm saying is we could leave those places and nothing will happen. Whereas Afghanistan would fall apart, yet you guys claim our efforts there are working.
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 04:12 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: lowandslow at June 05, 2011 08:01 PM (GZitp)
But we've been there for 50 years and more, right? Which was your point, right? How're we paying for it? Let's see, if Iraq wants us to stay, how could they pay for it? Hmmm, how could they pay for it? I'm at a loss. Maybe sell some sand?
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 04:13 PM (1fanL)
You can't be saying that.
Posted by: FUBAR at June 05, 2011 04:17 PM (1fanL)
Yeah, leave South Korea and Japan and see if nothing happens.
Geopolitics are not your strong suit.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 04:18 PM (7utQ2)
Unless you count the whole Soviets and Cubans every damn where in the last half of the 70s.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 05, 2011 04:20 PM (7utQ2)
G: Had other business to attend to, thus the delay.
Your description of your place and my mind's eye estimate of it are in total agreement.
Keep safe and take care of the troops and horses!
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 05, 2011 04:41 PM (yrGif)
Yes, because Afghanistan isn't strong enough to stand on its own yet. What we're doing is working, but the process isn't finished.
Did you know that in the Pacific we lost all the battles until about 1943, and then even after we started winning we took horrendous casualties that mounted steadily until the Battle of Okinawa, in which 12,000 Americans were killed? We took more casualties at Okinawa than at any other battle in the Pacific.
Length of time and number of casualties aren't reliable metrics for determining who's winning.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 04:43 PM (SI/pw)
Assad is a monster. And he his doing all this in plain sight for the world to see. Conservative and non-conservative press alike ought to be pushing the Obama administration to take meaningful action against this murderous tyrant. Their is plenty we can do short of open war to aid the people in the streets.
Uhhmm, right. Let's immediately give this extremely important project the same serious moral and security considerations that you fuckers gave George W. Bush and the GWOT.
Does anyone know the names of those who jumped out of the Twin Towers while burning alive, in any fucking case?
Posted by: Tubby Curls at June 05, 2011 04:46 PM (uPJN8)
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at June 05, 2011 04:47 PM (NITzp)
It's not possible to rid the world of every Muslim government by force. Wishing we could do so won't make it any more feasible.
Instead, we're going to drag this out and eventually face another world war, this time an actual war vs Islam/Islamic nations.
You just advocated world war to rid us of Muslim governments.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 04:53 PM (SI/pw)
The mission is to stay until we've created a government and armed forces that can defend Afghanistan from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
How hard is that to understand?
You're kidding, right Larry? The only thing that defines Afghanistan is borders made up by a previous conquerer. Afghanistan is an amalgam of many tribal, ethnic, religious, and racial elements that have been at war with each other for 2000 years. Those conflicts will continue regardless of American declarations of "stability."
Posted by: kevlarchick at June 05, 2011 04:59 PM (J1U5w)
My problems with the ME adventure scenarios is that the US
civilian leadership (R & D, but especially D) does not have an
effing clue that there is really incompatible diversity and
that all cultures are not equal. The muz have been trying to
kill and conquer everyone else for 1300 years or so and the most
backwards of them eke out a subsistence living where even rocks have
a hard time. They have evolved a culture that allows them to
survive (not flourish or excel) but not much else. This will
not change to any political structure remotely recognizable by
what used to be Western civilization in less than decades if not a
century or more.
Iraq does look like it has potential; however,
the proof in the pudding dip will be a year or so after we
leave.
Given centuries of islamic indoctrination and the wonders
of the koran in the islamic world, I would not hold my breath.
Given
the generally spineless nature of all US politicians, we will never
fight the long war correctly, or long enough. I don't have a
solution, and I don't have any optimism left.
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 05, 2011 05:00 PM (yrGif)
The question was, "What's the mission?" The mission is as I stated it.
We're trying to make 21st century Afghanistan different from what she was in the past. We may not be successful.
On the other hand, we may succeed after all. The Afghan National Army shows that Afghans of different tribal backgrounds can work together in pursuit of a common national goal.
Time will tell.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 05:13 PM (SI/pw)
Posted by: starboardhelm at June 05, 2011 05:26 PM (ctMcG)
Kratos (Ghost of Sparta),
"What really makes this situation worse is that Col Crazy was behaving because of the aftermath of the Iraq invasion, dismantling his WMD programs among other things; now we've shown him that cooperating with Western regimes just leads to betrayal and back-stabbing."
This.
The message Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-Il and Bashar Assad have no doubt received from the Libyan intervention is that the West is fickle, duplicitous and hopelessly weak. I can't imagine any of these tyrants will feel safer dismatling their weapons of mass destruction programs, ending their support for terror groups or generally moving in a pro-Western direction now.
Posted by: Ernie McCracken at June 05, 2011 05:31 PM (FUEui)
>> You're kidding, right Larry
Larry is gonna have to catch up to indigenous peoples not separated by Pacific ocean.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at June 05, 2011 05:36 PM (Wh0W+)
Cryptic. I like it.
Posted by: Llarry at June 05, 2011 05:50 PM (SI/pw)
Posted by: rammer at June 05, 2011 09:00 PM (Ld3ej)
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Posted by: Free online insurance quotes at June 06, 2011 01:22 AM (Np1mF)
Dear M&M's
Please note,
Any e-mail comms from "THE GROUP" with links, attachments related to Mr. (LOSER) Johnson and his skin shedding lizard lavatory will be from now on met with sun temp flame on ALL ONT's which will require some intervention no doubt from the overseers of this site and for which I apologize in advance.
Now....back to my wine....
Posted by: Richard at June 07, 2011 07:18 PM (+qNON)
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