1 We are all just prisoners here, trapped in our own device.

2 Artists are basically self-involved assholes, and most of those who self-identify as "artists" are smug pricks with all the talent of a syphilitic flea jerking off into a thimble.

Some genuine artists are genius self-involved assholes, but Sting is not among that number.

3 Ace: This is way to cerebral.

Shouldn't we be asking ourselves questions that Really Matter, like:

"If Eric Holder gets indicted in Operation Fast & Furious, should he get a civilian trial?" (Courtesy Iowahawk)

4 Some genuine artists are genius self-involved assholes, but Sting  Gordon is not among that number.

5 Is this a movie review of Tommy Boy?

6 I mean it's . . . Stink we're talking about here! Stink. I always liked Vermeer. He had a day job! And a lot of my favorite artists worked quite hard running their studios, supported by patrons or states, with many, many apprentices doing a lot of the actual work.

7 Wasn't this the plot to Revolutionary Road? 

With man/boy Leo DiCrapeo and Kate Winslet? 

I think it was the premise behind American Beauty also..

8

O.K.  --  you gave me "silopsistic", but you left me hanging on "quotidian".

 

9 Part of this is that in the Left's ideal world, they are part of a noble class that doesn't have to worry itself with crass things like commerce.

This nobility can focus on the important things - ruling the plebes, art, and religion (of the enviro-nut sort).

It is amazing how reactionary the left is when you really analyze where they want to go...

10 Hey, this isn't the 100,000 word missive I was promised about Harry Potter, . 

11

I could dork adult women like you proles, but then I'd just be one of you.

12

You hear this an awful lot from artists. An awful lot. You see this basic idea -- the emptiness and awfulness of normal, quotidian life -- in dozens of movies, like the empty American Beauty, and damn, if they don't win Oscars a lot.

Ah, I did a Breitbart.. 

13 By definition, artists are unable to grasp the connection between work and reward.  Those that are unknown rely on the indulgence of family or friends for food, and those that are successful can live their entire life on the proceeds from one hit.  If successful, the artist may keep putting out songs/movies/poems/paintings/whatever, and they may be good or they may be crap, but the income stream doesn't tell them anything.

14

what the hell is the problem with a nice lawn?

 

Duh, lawn care.  Because in the suburbs you have to mow and water and weed the thing, and that takes work.  Work is hard.

No one thinks lawns are oppressive if they are on big manicured estates with Filipino gardeneres.

15

O.K. -- you gave me "silopsistic", but you left me hanging on "quotidian".

"Bien pensant" fits in here somewhere.

16 Solipsism=narcissism=nihilism. If I'm the only thing that matters, then nothing else matters.

17

Oh, and OT, but why isn't anyone hammering home the fact that the Senate deliberately CHOSE little Chuckie Schumer's plan of NOT working on their own debt ceiling plan, deciding instead to take pot shots at the House's CCB plan?

This IS their strategy, and it needs to be telegraphed to people - there IS no plan in the Senate, there never WAS a plan in the Senate, and there isn't going to BE a plan in the Senate.

THAT'S what today's "strategy" meeting at the WH is - they're getting their marching orders.

If Boehner and the Pubs fold, they are going to be in real trouble with the electorate at large.  They should all just go home for the weekend and let President Puttz and the Senate sweat it for once.

Barky needs to OWN this - he said he owns it, now let him.

18

Thank you, Ace, for pointing this out.

Throw in a little bit of Postmodern thought where nothing matters and what if it did, and you have the perfect recipe for the decline of a society. It's childish narcissism and also helps explain how The Vapid One©, America's Childish Narcisssist in Chief got elected.  Everywhere you go, every movie and song you hear just reinforces it.

And it is bullshit.

That's why I like the blues so much. It's real, it's gritty and dirty and most of the songs are about life giving you bad breaks when you don't deserve them. Ever seen the move Crossroads? There's a quote in there that goes, "The blues ain't nothing but a good man feeling bad."

By the way, what's the opposite of solipsism?

19

I swear, Ace, sometimes you just plain suck. Reading this forced upon me an image from South Park: San Francisco Liberal Douchebags loving the smell of their own farts. It's crap like this that maintains the opinion of a lot of folks here of you trying to be an elitist RINO wannabe insider shitbag I'm-smarter-than-you phuckstick.

We want pudding and Ewok pron. 

20

What's always bugged the shit out of me is those songs like "Little Pink Houses" by Johnny Cougar and "Houses made of ticky-tack" or whatever that stupid folk shit was called.

How condescending.  Fuck you Johnny fucking Cougar.

 

21 So, I'm a smug self-absorbed asshole.  How come I'm not rich and famous already?  Probably prejudice against my genius, or bigotry because I'm a pre-op trans-transsexual.

22 Not everyone has talent enough to be an artist and produce art on an occasional schedule (when the Muse moves one) and yet be good enough at it so as not to starve.

Oh, and I'll note, it is not talent as an artist that puts money in the entertainment industry's pocket. It is talent as a showman - a very different beast.

Lady Gaga, or Madonna before her, are marginally talented - there are many better singers in the US. But these superior singers are busy working on their singing (and waiting tables) because they aren't able to self promote the way the "stars of the musical industry" are.

23

By the way, what's the opposite of solipsism?

Dude, the Matrix.

24

This gripes me too, but there's a large segment that believes they'd be artists and live in a cool, minimalist loft and wear hip  eyeglasses if only the mean 'baggers would tax the rich to support them. See, they're just not meant to be receptionists! And Nancy Pelois agrees!

I wish to strike them in the taint with a truncheon.

25 All in order to flatter themselves

That says it all.  This is what drives them.

26 Where's the Rush?

27

I prefer the Beach Boys' songs of cars.  They were about racing (409), getting chicks (I Get Around), bragging (Little Deuce Coupe), defending your honor (Don't Worry Baby - not really a car song), or just fun (fun, fun).  Manly, conservative, American themes.

28 That says it all.  This is what drives them.

OK, he's right on that too.

29

The Police song -- Synchronicity I, I think -- goes...

Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes,
Contestants in a suicidal race.

That is, all you wage-slaves headed to work each day are lemmings in a suicide machine.

I think we can rest assured that Sting doesn't take the Metro into the London recording studios. He owns at least two top of the line Range Rovers

30

By the way, what's the opposite of solipsism?

Reality.

31 See, this right here is why I could never be a writer. Because that entire essay has been bouncing around in the back of my head for the last 10 years or so, but I could never have put it together, or expressed it so perfectly. The best I was ever able to do is say that liberals lack imagination, because they can't imagine any world other than their own. This was perfect. It was like listening to Rush, when he codifies something I already knew, but never was able to put together.

32 Ah, Ace, this is why I say that art is the waste product of a healthy society.  Art happens.

Now, entertainment, that's good stuff. Most of the art we revere was very commercial.

Shakespeare was a hack writer (in the very best sense).  He cranked out plays for the express purpose of selling tickets.  That's why it had all the sex and killing.

The Mona Lisa was a commissioned portrait.

Look at Sting himself.  He's a rock star, his great artwork is a three-minute song made using a half-dozen instruments.  Sure, he can do other things, but he has to do the three-minute song to subsidize the rest and the rest is quickly forgotten.

"Artistic freedom" is usually a disaster for art.  The best works of literature were often written under censorship and repression.  The great artists work with deadlines, budgets and specific tasks and they excel because of it.  A lot of artists seem to think that their minds are bottomless wells of pure genius, but art is like a pearl, it only comes about through constant irritation.

After all, look at what happened to George Lucas when he was allowed to give his genius free reign.

33 A lawn represents the White Man's tyranny over Mother Nature.

34
Bob Seger is the anti-Sting.

35

Where's the Rush?

Indeed, I read through that otherwise excellent essay and didn't see it anywhere.

36

 

Love the politics Ace, but I gotta tell you, this is the shit I really like.

 

Very nice job.

37

Sting lives in a fucking CASTLE!!!  He hasn't known what it's like to be a real human being in decades.

 

He means nothing to me.

38 After all, look at what happened to George Lucas when he was allowed to give his genius free reign.

What?

39

The movie Pleasantville is a good example of this meme.  In the fifties everyone lived in black and white, boring lives, being faithful to their spouses and all that shit.  Then some jerkoff from the 90's shows up and shows them all how to ignore their obligations to find "passion" and fulfill themsleves.  When they did, they turned into color.

I thought at the time, what an execrable piece of shit this is.  Still do.

40
After all, look at what happened to George Lucas when he was allowed to give his genius free reign.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 21, 2011 05:34 PM (T0NGe)

Mee-sa hate-ah you-sa!

41 Remind's me of Coogan's Bluff that was made at the peak of the hippy era. Clint Eastwood, a stark Texan Sheriff has to get through all the liberal chicanery of NYC and beat-up some worthless scrunts smoking pot and left-wing bums. I like the naked chicks covered with glowing body paint though.

42 Art is like billiards.

Without the boundaries and the holes, you're just playing with a set of balls.

43 If we extend workerunemployment benefits to 800 weeks, you'll all have a chance to write songs like this. Would you all truly deny someone the opportunity to sing like his squeakhole is burning?

44

This is great discussion material. Two of my siblings are artsy people and they are constantly telling me how bored I must be by my existence, while THEY, are NOT existing but "experiencing" life.

Look, I am 47 years old with a wife and two kids (my youngest leaves for college in 2 weeks) and I have worked in commercial insurance for 24 years. And yes, I take great pride in my lawn. Maintaing my lawn makes me happy, ok? So no, I can't write, draw or sculpt. But y lawn is a maserpiece,,, to me. Suck it!

So what if I don't know all the trendy shit? I work hard and don't hurt anyone. What is all the disdain? I kind of get that whole, there has to be more to it than this attitude. I really do. Not to get too personal but I'm a cancer survivor (so far) and I remember all those terrible months of surgery and chemo. I remember really well thinking to myself; "is this all there is?" And I got caught up in that stupid crap for a few weeks. But then I realized something else too. I even made a list of stuff I was going to do before I ceased to be.

I worked on that list for a few hours and well, it was relatively depressing, you know? Then I realized that I was making the wrong list. I started listing all the things I HAD done and seen. You should do that too. My list was long and was full of laughs and tears and thought's of sweaty girls in my pick up. Awesome.

So I say F the arty farty scum.

45 Yeah, that whole "money can't buy be love" thing?  Please don't tell me you were stupid enough to buy that crap. 

46 The rush song Verum Serum mentions is the sort of rush song that makes me not like rush.

47

Damn it Ace.  I loved that Police song.  I myself have felt like the rush hour traffic was awakening the monster within me.  I've felt at times that my domestic routine would drive me bonkers.  I love my family and my life, but soemtimes it's not all rosy.  This song always represented that frustration that is going to work and keeping the famliy fed in the modern world. 

Now you tell me its a collectivist anthem. Sting is an asshole, but I didn't need this song ruined for me.

I'm glad that Rush and Red Barchetta pass the collectivist test.  I didn't know Peart was a Randian. 

 

 

48 This topic is a downer, man.

49 Red Barchetta.

50 Speaking as an artist/animator working a day job making video games and math tutoring on the side (since the schools are atrocious with math), yeah, this sounds about right. I would note that not all artists are brain dead retards, nor are we all liberal idiots. We have more than our share of wasted human potential here in the arts, but we're not all pustulent parasites on the underbelly of society.

51

 

Funny too that you mention lawns Ace as I just walked around mine and it is completely dormant.

 

I've worked my ass off on that lawn for the last several years, overseeding every fall, aerating it, liming it, fertilizing it, etc.  It was so beautiful up until a few days ago.  That's what 10 days of 95+ degree weather does.  Oh, and having an owner too cheap to water.

 

I think I'll go find my old Police CDs and trash 'em.

52
"bohemian" is mentioned several times

but no mention of Queen?

Mama, ooh I just killed a man...

53

What's always bugged the shit out of me is those songs like "Little Pink Houses" by Johnny Cougar and "Houses made of ticky-tack" or whatever that stupid folk shit was called.

That folkie scrunt was named Malvina Reynolds. Total commiecunt too.

But John Mellencamp, despite his silly name, doesn't deserve to be lumpedi n with her. "Pink Houses" was a song about how life goes on even if you *don't* change the whole world.

54 10 Part of this is that in the Left's ideal world, they are part of a noble class that doesn't have to worry itself with crass things like commerce.

This nobility can focus on the important things - ruling the plebes, art, and religion (of the enviro-nut sort).

It is amazing how reactionary the left is when you really analyze where they want to go...

Posted by: 18-1 at July 21, 2011 05:27 PM (7BU4a)

I just want to bump this.  "Progressives" are just the landed gentry.  Or at least they aspire to be.  They're no different than the 18th century French nobility.  The problem is that too many people working as a barista at Starbucks think that they're part of the upper class too.  After all, they have the right politics.

55 Maintaining my lawn makes me happy, ok? So no, I can't write, draw or sculpt. But my lawn is a masterpiece,,, to me. Suck it!

You're on our list, dude.

56

bohemian" is mentioned several times

but no mention of Queen?

Or beer?

57
really, Bohemian Rhapsody is kinda deep.

58

Sgt. Fury.

 

Right on brother!

59 Is Rush going to play that fucking Diane Sawyer song?

60
A Nice Morning Drive

61 I don't have any artistic talent so I became a bass player.

62

One of my favorites along this line:

Tax the rich

Feed the poor

Until there are no

Rich no more

Yeah, and then what, asshole?

63 COWBOY POETS MUSTS BE SUBSARDIZED!

64 The problem is that too many people working as a barista at Starbucks think that they're part of the upper class too.

And a true member of the landed gentry wouldn't acknowledge their existence if they were on fire.

65 I think that using the word "solipsism" as a description of the typical "artist" is far too subtle; and it makes the assumption that they have actually considered their place in the world outside of the "I am rich; I get whatever I want; nobody else is as important as I am," attitude.

Most of these people strike me as shallow and ignorant. As the saying goes, "an unexamined life is not worth living."

66 I came to AoSHQ to read a smart, military blog but all I got was quotidian and solipsism.  (BTW.  Had this very same conversational subject with a friend just a few days ago.)

67 After all, look at what happened to George Lucas when he was allowed to give his genius free reign.

Have you ever read the "original genius" of Lucas?

Christ, if not for guys like Walter Hill who script-doctored George's bullshit to develop the good concepts and throw out the trash, there'd never have been an Empire Strikes Back, let alone a "new Trilogy".

Here's the first thing that sticks out - "Luke Starkiller".

68

...but art is like a pearl, it only comes about through constant irritation.

Oooh, that's great. Now if I could only get that to fit in with "Woke up this morning," I'd have a great blues tune.

It's been my personal experience that a gig playing music with my friends cures just about any rough patch I've encountered at work. Well, that, plus a few cold Guinnii. I think a lot of artists lose that irritation when they hit the big time, as you pointed out with Lucas. An awful lot of bands' later albums aren't nearly as good as their first effort or two.

And for these last three years of funemployment, if I hadn't been able to play music and make at least some money, I'd be living under an overpass somewhere.

69 The best works of literature were often written under censorship and repression. Posted by: AmishDude at July 21, 2011 05:34 PM (T0NGe) The flip side of the coin, is that when you don't repress artists, they try to find repression in stuff like having a job or driving to that job. Also: the simple fact that had Orwell not had a censorship board to worry about, he would have titled his novel "1948" and nobody would have cared about it.

70 65 COWBOY POETS MUSTS BE SUBSARDIZED!

And they must be provided with pudding and protection!

71 Now here's some musicians who summarize life in a single song

Birth, School, Work, Death   pretty much says it all

72 _{Is Rush going to play that fucking Diane Sawyer song?}

Yeah. fuckin talking trees and shit? What's up with that?

73
Sting Stink.

74 what's this compromise from Boner bullshit?  (late to the party)

75 In case it's not come up, solipsism used to be classified as a mental illness.

76 Quick way to tell if someone has moron potential, "Do you like Rush and AC/DC or U2 and Sting", send the latter to Allah

77

One of my favorites along this line:Tax the richFeed the poorUntil there are noRich no more.  Yeah, and then what, asshole?

One of my favorites, but I think he was pointing out the stupidity of that attitude.  Your question was Alvin Lee's. 

78 Here's the first thing that sticks out - "Luke Starkiller".

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at July 21, 2011 05:42 PM (JqpkY)

Princess Labia Organa wasn't so great either.

79 Jim DeMint started the recession.

80
what's that song by The Police?

it goes like this: How my poo hole aches...

I love that song.

81 _{Yeah, and then what, asshole?}

Cannibalism.

82 Another pleasant valley Sunday......

Here in status-symbol land.....

83 Also, can you imagine him getting away with "dykes and fairies" now?

84 >>>Damn it Ace. I loved that Police song. I myself have felt like the rush hour traffic was awakening the monster within me. I've felt at times that my domestic routine would drive me bonkers. I love my family and my life, but soemtimes it's not all rosy. This song always represented that frustration that is going to work and keeping the famliy fed in the modern world. I don't think the song is written from the perspective that this is just a guy getting frustrated by the rat race and screaming about it for one moment.

85 71 The best works of literature were often written under censorship and repression.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 21, 2011 05:34 PM (T0NGe)

The flip side of the coin, is that when you don't repress artists, they try to find repression in stuff like having a job or driving to that job.

...

Posted by: Fake Ace at July 21, 2011 05:42 PM (lT0LC)

Absolutely right.  Like the liberals who invoke murder, genocide or slavery as a metaphor for something that isn't anything like murder, genocide or slavery.  They just don't know what a horrible life is.

86

Another pleasant valley Sunday......

Here in status-symbol land.....

From The Monkees - avatars of gritty authenticity

87 I think this post tells us the secret of why Ace is for decriminalization of marijuana. 

(Just kidding.  But really, this was the kind of thing I used to think about when I used to indulge.)

88 Have you ever read the "original genius" of Lucas?

Yeah, it's pretty awful.

89

Went to a Sting concert several years ago at Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre in St. Louis.  Brother, his wife, my wife, and me.  The wives are not political and have rolled their eyes and bro and me for years for our passionate interest.  We put up with it because....well, you know.

 

Anyway, no more that 10 minutes into his show, Sting starts yapping about Iraq and George W. Bush and war criminal shit.  Drunk bro and me stood up, 15 rows out, and started heckling the shit out of that faggot.  We were "escorted" out as our wives remained in their seats.  Bro and I went to the parking lot and drank the rest of the beer.

 

We're embarrassed to this day to have once been Sting fans.

90 The Salaminizer

91
The life you lead (assuming you're not an Artist) sucks and you're a fool or a coward for leading it.

Oh, hey, thanks for that. Oh, wait, you aren't me don't realize that I'm actually enjoying my life. Sucks to be you that you can't imagine that possibility.

That, and I can make a computer sing and dance.

92 I was just thinking about Pleasant Valley Sunday, wiserbud.

Total stank hippy argument.

Last Train to Clarksville is much better.

93 Yeah. fuckin talking trees and shit? What's up with that?

Posted by: also Ricky at July 21, 2011 05:43 PM (ECjvn)

Yeah. Heelix is the shit though, now that's music,

"Give me an R O C K" then the audience yells "ROCK", now that's a fucking concert.

94 The success of free market economics in an industrious society means the ability of people to be ignorant of economics and industry relatively harm-free for a while. I suppose we should point out that certain occupations are over-represented precisely _because_ they're atypical and therefore interesting to an audience that doesn't have them, but you're right that this doesn't seem to be done in a knowing fashion.

95 Red Barchetta is an amazing song.  My love for Rush has grown over the years.  I never even think about The Police or Sting's music.

96

You mentioned Tommy Boy, but a lot of other works with SNL alumni of that era had regular people, too. I liked Billy Madison. The final turning point of the movie was when Adam Sandler yelled "BUSINESS ETHICS!" Ethics almost became the Madison family's undoing, as the father voiced his intention to keep up his end of a bargain that didn't go his way.

In the end, our hero proved to be somewhat cowardly, but ethics prevailed.

97 The Evil Galactic Empire is America and the Rebellion is the peace-loving, freedom-fighting Viet Cong.

98 I love Joe Walsh for that song alone.  He really does puncture the whining celebrity lifestyle.

99

Heh, Sting would never sing a song like Wang Dang Sweet Poontang.

 

And thank God for that.

100

Tax the rich

Kill the poor

Worship Always

Your Masters GWAR!

101 The king of naval gazing, pompous, out-of-touch blathering is Bruce Springsteen. I can match the stupidity of any other artist's lyric with at least two or three Springsteen lines...and that's just from his early stuff, which was far, far better than anything he has done in the last, oh, 30 years.

102 Absolutely right.  Like the liberals who invoke murder, genocide or slavery as a metaphor for something that isn't anything like murder, genocide or slavery.  They just don't know what a horrible life is.

Some of them need a Holiday In Cambodia.

103 Synchronicity always conjured the opening scene of Office Space for me. By choice. I liked the tune. Hate the d-bag who did it.

104

OK if we are talking song lyrics... you know i'm born to lose !

If you like to gamble, I tell you I'm your man
You win some, lose some, it's - all - the same to me
The pleasure is to play, it makes no difference what you say
I don't share your greed, the only card I need is
The Ace Of Spades
The Ace Of Spades

Playing for the high one, dancing with the devil,
Going with the flow, it's all a game to me,
Seven or Eleven, snake eyes watching you,
Double up or quit, double stakes or split,
The Ace Of Spades
The Ace Of Spades

You know I'm born to lose, and gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby,
I don't wanna live forever,
And don't forget the joker!

Pushing up the ante, I know you've got to see me,
Read 'em and weep, the dead man's hand again,
I see it in your eyes, take one look and die,
The only thing you see, you know it's gonna be,
The Ace Of Spades
The Ace Of Spades

105 _{Mellencamp is a commie liberal "pacifist" dick bag that deserves to have his ass beat repeatedly.  Fuck him.}

I'll lie like a muthafucka on the stand for you too.

106

This post is trash.

 

What kind of hillbilly writes this tripe?

107

Went to a Sting concert several years ago at Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre in St. Louis.  Brother, his wife, my wife, and me.  The wives are not political and have rolled their eyes and bro and me for years for our passionate interest.  We put up with it because....well, you know.

 

Anyway, no more that 10 minutes into his show, Sting starts yapping about Iraq and George W. Bush and war criminal shit.  Drunk bro and me stood up, 15 rows out, and started heckling the shit out of that faggot.  We were "escorted" out as our wives remained in their seats.  Bro and I went to the parking lot and drank the rest of the beer.

 

We're embarrassed to this day to have once been Sting fans.

Posted by: Dave at July 21, 2011 05:48 PM (HPcQF)

I commend you

 

108 Verum Serum has it exactly backwards.

109 Beavis and Butthead beat you to this, "Hey Butt-head those houses look fake" to which Butt Head replies "Yeah that's like the whole point of college music, to make the suburbs look bad." Yeah, Sting's a smug asshole.

110 I'd kinda like to see Sammy Hagar beat the living shit out of John Mellencamp on stage during a live concert.

111 Next up: The main cultural themes of Repo Man vis- a'-vis Sleepless in Seattle in the context of societal influences on male and female codependency.

112 Some of them need a Holiday In Cambodia.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at July 21, 2011 05:51 PM (JqpkY)

 

Or a trip to the Chicken Farm.

113 "Artistic freedom" is usually a disaster for art.  The best works of literature were often written under censorship and repression.  The great artists work with deadlines, budgets and specific tasks and they excel because of it.  A lot of artists seem to think that their minds are bottomless wells of pure genius, but art is like a pearl, it only comes about through constant irritation.

This, I'll go even further.
Look at Dante's Divine Comedy. In the Inferno, there is a strong criticism of the Catholic Church at the time. But because of the danger of persecution and what not, that wouldn't have been a safe thing to write straight out, wind up getting accused of heresy or excommunicated and so on. Instead, he took what he wanted to say, wrapped it in allegory and a biblical setting to communicate what was un-Godly and done in His name, within that epic quest through Hell. I don't think anyone's really come close to that level of satire/critique, done that well, with such powerful imagery.

114 While we're talking of funny songs, Weird Al's "Whatever You Like" still cracks me up.

115 I remember on Anthony Bourdain's show through the southwest, he was talking with Ted Nugent and Ted went off on Sting about saving the wildlife (paraphrasing) "Fuck you, Sting! I do more here on my ranch to support biodiversity than you. Put your damn money where your mouth is." Damn straight, Uncle Ted.

116 There's that.

But also the everyday life of a Sting-level artist (or pretty much anyone who makes a legit living at it) is boring as hell, and so they often project their undigested ennui/disappointment/etc. on a safe-to-condemn out-group, so they can examine it (or just bitch about it) without injuring their self- image as deeply self-knowing, clear-eyed, etc.

Well-educated-white-people politics, as tribal phenomenon, is the same sort of psychological self-armoring (but more re: personal used-by-The-Man-ness), I think.

117

My now wife won front row tickets to see Sting about a year ago.  She called to tell me about it and I replied, if the backup band is not Andy Summers and Stewart Copeland, then you need to find another date.

Big Rush fan here.... now they are not Led Zeppelin but they easily make my top 5.

118 Here's the first thing that sticks out - "Luke Starkiller".

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at July 21, 2011 05:42 PM (JqpkY)

Princess Labia Organa wasn't so great either.

Posted by: Cicero at July 21, 2011 05:44 PM (QKKT0)

 

Yeah, same as Han Solo's friend and sidekick the Nookie.

119 Instead, he took what he wanted to say, wrapped it in allegory and a biblical setting to communicate what was un-Godly and done in His name, within that epic quest through Hell. I don't think anyone's really come close to that level of satire/critique, done that well, with such powerful imagery.

Posted by: AlexC at July 21, 2011 05:54 PM (cFvf7)

And it lasted.  If he'd written an essay, "I hate the Catholic church" it'd be nowhere, like a lot of the political screeds we see today.

120 Sting: Global Tantric Masturbation.

121

Posted by: Dave at July 21, 2011 05:48 PM (HPcQF)

 

Well done, sir. 

122 I'd pay to see Lynryd Skynrd whip the piss out of Sting boy.

123 It's all Catcher In The Rye, all the time, to these artistes.

124 Some people really don't like the Bohemian thing of always worrying about rent and never having anything saved for the future.

I hate, hate, hate Rent and hate even more La Boheme.  Whenever my friends are appalled by this, I tell them just wait until you're the one who has to pay for The Tortured Artist's lifestyle.  I've had more than one person come back and admit that now they get why I hate it so much. 

Note that I say this as someone who would love to be an artsy bitch.  I just don't have the money to pay for it myself. 

125

You know what this thread needs right about now? Some space rock about this very subject, a perfect example of the kind of song Ace is talking about.

A Routine Day.

126 From The Monkees - avatars of gritty authenticity

Fucking A!!! 

Kinda funny listening to a song about the hypocrisy of suburban life from a band with a guy who's mom became a multi-millionaire after inventing liquid paper.

You don't get more street than that.

127 And this enclave of performers with a superior understanding of humanity and behavior and individual exceptionalism forms its own mob of groupthinkers denigrating the ignorant rabble.

They sing songs about irony, right?

128

I got no problem with Rush though.

 

Great band.  If they're leftists in their lyrics, please don't learn me.  I don't want to know.

129 I gotta admit, I dearly love Office Space, but it has a similar message. Hell, Ron Livingston screams the message: "We are not made to sit in cubicles and push keys on computers!" or something. Then again, he does find a job he likes -- Construction.

130 This is the reason why I despise "RENT" in all its forms, play, movie, soundtrack, whatever. We're expected to find the "Bohemians" charming, likable, and vibrant. Instead they come off as self-righteous, pretentious twits who feel they shouldn't have to pay rent, as if society "owes" them for sitting around playing their unpublished music, refusing steady jobs on "principle", and sitting around discussing anarchist philosophy. My first boyfriend took me to a performance of Rent on our second date, and I just sat there the whole time, seething, thinking how I had never felt such hate for fictional characters before.

131 _{Then again, he does find a job he likes -- Construction.}

Fuckin A.

132 Artists have all kinds of bold, questioning, transgressive things to say about Christianity and f***-all to say about head-chopping Islam.  Get back to me on that, you pathetic posers. 

133 Heh.

Something tells me Limp Bizkit's new single Mohammed Shouldn't Saw Off Heads will not be released this year.

134

Great band.  If they're leftists in their lyrics, please don't learn me.  I don't want to know.

Posted by: Dave at July 21, 2011 05:57 PM (HPcQF)

 

Rush lyrics are very pro-freedom and individualist.  Pay attention and you'll appreciate them even more.  This applies to older stuff, I don't know the more recent stuff.

135 Very nice. I don't know if you saw it but there's a piece in the Hot Air headlines that says a study show creative types lack humility. I'm not sure I needed a study to tell me that. I prefer to believe they are just douche bags but whatever.

136 135 I gotta admit, I dearly love Office Space, but it has a similar message. Hell, Ron Livingston screams the message: "We are not made to sit in cubicles and push keys on computers!" or something.

Then again, he does find a job he likes -- Construction.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2011 05:57 PM (nj1bB)

But that's even better.  Honest work with your hands. It might denigrate office work, but it doesn't elevate the bohemians.

137

sock off

138

Sat. Night Special

139 I gotta admit, I dearly love Office Space, but it has a similar message. Hell, Ron Livingston screams the message: "We are not made to sit in cubicles and push keys on computers!" or something.

Then again, he does find a job he likes -- Construction.

Posted by: ace at July 21, 2011 05:57 PM (nj1bB)

I think you can watch office space and laugh and not subscribe to this theory. It's some funny stuff if you have ever worked in an office. 

140 Whenever my friends are appalled by this, I tell them just wait until you're the one who has to pay for The Tortured Artist's lifestyle.

Yeah, my wife's cousin was a very artistic, honest-to-god opera singer and very flamboyant.  His attitude changed a bit when he was asking me for money and a place to stay.

141 135 I gotta admit, I dearly love Office Space, but it has a similar message. Hell, Ron Livingston screams the message: "We are not made to sit in cubicles and push keys on computers!" or something.

Then again, he does find a job he likes -- Construction.

The ending was tweaked a bit to keep it from being too depressing, Ace.

In the final movie, he's happy as a construction worker. 

In the alternate ending, the foreman of his construction site comes up and starts talking to him in a Lumbergh-style way at the end of the film, showing that you end up with the same kind of bullshit at all work places, not just in offices.

142 Two of Rush's three have parents who were Holocaust survivors.

Saw the documentary Behind the Lighted Stage.

They are two upstanding young Jewish men and one Asperger's Champion genius.

143 136 This is the reason why I despise "RENT" in all its forms,

EVERYONE HAS AIDS!

144 @138 Pep This. So many self-proclaimed "artists" seem to define art as "anything that offends or confuses Christians and old people."

145 >>>In the alternate ending, the foreman of his construction site comes up and starts talking to him in a Lumbergh-style way at the end of the film, showing that you end up with the same kind of bullshit at all work places, not just in offices. Is that for real? I would have liked that ending better. I think the "Happy Construction Worker" ending was false and inconsistent with what we saw previously. Basically, Peter Gibbons doesn't want to work, period.

146 138 Artists have all kinds of bold, questioning, transgressive things to say about Christianity and f***-all to say about head-chopping Islam.  Get back to me on that, you pathetic posers. 

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2011 05:58 PM (6TB1Z)

Hey, we tried.

147 Peter Gibbons finds that freedom in the workplace is out there. You just have to look for it.

You don't have to be a criminal to be free. You simply have to find your niche.

But it takes a million dollars to get with two chicks.

148 Well yes, the BoHos despise the very people who make their silly little lives possible in the first place -- the bulk of the population who get their shit together, raise kids, pay taxes, mow their lawns, obey laws, and hold down the mundane jobs that make up a civilization capable of accommodating and tolerating immature BoHo goofs who might otherwise just wind up as jesters or bedslaves of warlords in a savage society. Because they're dumb. 

[Sting should be put in a lemming costume, welded into a shiny metal box, and rocketed off the Cliffs of Dover.]

149 In the alternate ending, the foreman of his construction site comes up and starts talking to him in a Lumbergh-style way at the end of the film, showing that you end up with the same kind of bullshit at all work places, not just in offices.

They should have kept the alternate ending.  (Especially since Lumbergh dies in that version.)

150

 

You are big bad greedy slumlords.  Shame, shame, shame.

151 I do work feeding the media beast( VO, directing audio books, tutorials for Intel, etc), and I do lay low on the Conservatism, but when people find out, they are stunned and incredulous that a Righty can even portend to work in the "Arts". " The most demanding business is Art, and the most demanding Art is Business." Rough quote but some smart person said that. My wife contends it is a Gemin thang, whaev.......

152 If everyone succeeds at becoming a "Bohemian" then no one really is one.  Just one, big massive puddle of "artisans".   Like an overstocked "Country Store & Critters".

153 Lawrence is my hero.

He knows what he wants.
He is prepared to work for it.
Gets up early.
Lives frugally.
Has his priorities in line.
Doesn't sweat the small stuff.
Knows when to keep his nose out of other people's business.

154 Just one, big massive puddle of "artisans".

Or, as we used to call them, "the working class".

155 Hmmmm...I think you got the whole solipsism thingie wrong. Solipsism contests that there is no "other" point of view, in fact all points of view are yours. So it would be easier in solipsistic philosophy to understand "other people", who are in fact not other at all.

156 If these genius Lefty artists are so happy with their life choices, why are they always getting divorced and either missing their own lives while coked to the gills or locking themselves in rehab?

157 Has his priorities in line.

Watch your cornhole, bud.

158

Been doing more lurking here than posting.  But what I've read has just affirmed why I can't get into contemporary music and movies.  And by contemporary, I mean anything made after 1975. 

I do like some of the music and have enjoyed the emergence of action/adventure movies. But many of the artists and movies I've seen discussed on this thread I couldn't give two hoots and a shit for.

159 _{Watch your cornhole, bud.}

Words to live by.

160 And by contemporary, I mean anything made after 1975.

Dude, you're just old is all.

161 new thread

162

This is why I gravitated towards Country. It's fun, it's sad, it's serious but it's almost always real life situations that normal folk can relate to.

 

163 It was Synchronicity II

164

You are big bad greedy slumlords.  Shame, shame, shame.

Posted by: Gay Squatters

Wow, they truly ARE butt-pirates in "Rent".

165

In case it's not come up, solipsism used to be classified as a mental illness.

As Glen Close reminds us in that commercial with her sister, one in six Americans needs help. And just because it's no longer classified doesn't mean it's still not an illness.

166

Good Will Hunting..... if you are doing this in 20 years, I will kill you.

I can relate.  My kid is scary smart but as lazy as they come.  If he had any motivation he could do great, great things.  I am just hoping he is employed when he hits 30.

167 Tommy Boy was not a great movie -- good, not great

Take that back!  Take it back, I say!  Leave Tommy Boy alone! FUCK YOU!  FUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOU!

168 Don't drink the corporate water.

169 Might've overreacted there.  Apologies.

170 If you go to college, study hard, and protect women when they go on dates, you can achieve anything.http://tinyurl.com/3ntdl9n

171 <sup>159 Lawrence is my hero.

He knows what he wants.
He is prepared to work for it.
Gets up early.
Lives frugally.
Has his priorities in line.
Doesn't sweat the small stuff.
Knows when to keep his nose out of other people's business.</sup>

^{Posted by: sifty at July 21, 2011 06:07 PM (ECjvn)}

Forgot the woman on channel 9 doing the titty exam.

172 I'd not really thought of it as an outsider attacking suburbanism, but one of the "lemmings" screaming out in frustration. But it's like one of those optical illusions, you look at it from one side, then you blink and shift focus and now you see the other part of the image. And, for some reason, I always thought of the "shining metal boxes" as mass transit of some sort (the Underground, or buses [double-decker, since it is England]). But then, criticizing mass transit isn't very green conscious (feel dirty just typing that).

So, I don't know what my point was, but I think we can all agree Sting is a turd. He's only tolerable when he's with the Police, and even then the lyrics get up their own ass as often as not.

173

Artists/fashion designers/chefs/actors, etc., are always nattering on about how freaking wonderful their "gifts" are, and how lucky the common people are to pay lots of money for the "creations" those gifts manifest.  Like hideous shoes and clothes, or hideous paintings and furniture that no one can sit on, or crappy movies that annoy the hell out of "normal" people.

Gah!  Check out the "fashions" of Rodarte, or the late Alexander McQueen (ok, some of his stuff was pretty good), or some of the crappy "art" that gets plastered around (that has nothing recognizable in it) or listen to the song stylings of John Mellencamp, for example, who believes himself to be a sensitive "artiste" rather than a decent bar band singer..."Little Pink Houses," ho ha, Middle America is so dumb, huh?

174

I agree with the validity of most of your overall thesis here, perhaps mainly because I hate hippies and bohemians so much as a group.

But I don't quite go along with your example.  In that specific line I don't hear the condescension.  That line about lemmings speaks to me. 

I make auto parts, too (ok - I'm in quality assurance, but I'm part of the process in my way).  OEM - not aftermarket, so it's the especially sucky kind of part making where you get a steady helping of shit to eat day by day from stupid and ungrateful customers who rely on you to fix all their fuck ups and then take a nice healthy dump on your head after you bail them out.  In the many years I've worked in industry I've had a chance to talk to hundreds of fellow wage slaves, manufacturing a wide variety of goods.  Plastics, electronics, metal parts of all types, etc.  95% or more of us go in every day sick to death and longing for that day when we can lay it down.  We're not there because we enjoy our quietly heroic labors.  We're there because that's our best opportunity to keep body and soul together, and maybe save something, while participating in the modern economy.  It's not me projecting - it's what other people have communicated to me in a variety of ways.  We're cogs in the machine, doing our best to carry on.  Holding on in quiet desperation isn't just the English way.  It's the human condition. 

I can't claim as wide a sampling for domestic types.  But those who I know who are parents tell me the same two things every single time.  First, they love their kids.  Second, they can't wait for the day those kids leave the house and only visit on occassion.  And rare is the husband who does not openly express envy of my singleness (when the wife isn't around). 

In short, life generally really is crap.  We do our best to get through and do our duty.  Let's not romanticise it.

175

I used to feel bad when I'd read my college alumni journal and hear about the ones digging wells in Africa or writing some new book on a Great Moral Question (a book which would only be read by fellow academics) or working at some law center for the indigent or something like that. "I'm just a stay-at-home-mom, raising my kids to be decent people, with no Great Global Impact," I'd think.

Then a fellow alum pointed out that we pay those "newsmakers'" salaries with either donations or tax dollars, and SOMEONE has to actually WORK so others could follow their bliss. Ours might not be newsworthy but it certainly was not without value.

Now I look at my kids as my contribution not just to the GDP but the future as well. If I do my job right, maybe one of them will have the Great Global Impact and thank me in their award speech.

176 Also, Rush has plenty of libertarian themes.

2112 was based off a Rand short story, and Red Barchetta is one of my favorite all time songs!

And as for empathy, they really nailed growing up in the 80's in Subdivisions.

Dave, I became a bass player because I saw Micheal Anthony, and his one note thumping, and thought, "if he can do that, and make millions (off of his more talented friends) I can do it!!" Now, if only I could find those friends.

(I also had a Black beauty Ricky, just like Geddy's)

177 These are a few of my favorite things:  Earning (and I mean fully and thoughtfully earning a pay-check).  Maybe even once in a while, streamlining a procedure, saving the company money, knowing that you've contributed in your own way, even it was biting one's own tongue to avoid conflict.  Mowing, edging a lawn.  Pulling weeds.  Planting flowers, vegetables; watching them grow.  Raking leaves, mulching.  Cooking a darn good meal for the family to enjoy.  I know, I know, meager, moronic things, simpleton things.

178 I wonder if any of these stars realize they're cogs in a machine, too, who often just got lucky rather than good? An entertainment executive looks at music demographics, for example, and notes, "Wow, look at the returns on that fledgling "rap" noise! And look here at the abundance of boy-bands that no one can differentiate and that are addressing a dwindling ghey market. We need to shift our assets for the next four quarters and promote Tupac Flabazz out of Detroit. And nix Tighty Whities. I don't care how clean and smooth their sound."

No, it never dawns on them that many of their peers (if not they themselves) really do suck, have highly questionable talent, and but for being in the right place at the right time, would be hobos with no actual insight to anything or anyone asking them opinions on that absence of insight, either.

Just shut up and sing and be grateful you're probably overpaid for knowing very little about an awful lot. And get off my lawn, you damn hippies.

179

Mellencamp is a commie liberal "pacifist" dick bag that deserves to have his ass beat repeatedly.  Fuck him.

Sad. I would not have known from the music I have of his.

By the way, if I am ever found to have pancreatic cancer or other terminal illness, I think I plan to spend my last ambulatory months hunting down commie artists like the jackoffs who were in Rage Against The Machine and killing them.

180

You know what this thread needs right about now? Some space rock about this very subject, a perfect example of the kind of song Ace is talking about.

A Routine Day.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 21, 2011 05:57 PM (d0Tfm)

Yeah, but 'Hope' is still one of the best concept albums ever.

181 Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo and those dumb guys, always painting recognizable stuff!  Obviously, they were only talented 'cause they were gay!  Haha, the Pope didn't know they were gay!  Ha ha. /

182 Faster horses. Younger women. Older whiskey.
 And more money.
- Tom T. Hall

183

I started listening to the book Though Shall Prosper by Rabbi Daniel Lapin and he talks a lot about how being a business person is a great thing, providing jobs, income etc to others but how society sees it as a bad thing, you evil profiteer.

If during career day you stand up and say I want to be a doctor or lawyer or athlete or musician, you will get applause.  If you say I want to be a pharmacutical sales rep, you would be stoned.

184 Posted by: Pat at July 21, 2011 05:57 PM (qPZkB)

I saw Rent when I was 18 (Trip to NYC with my Drama Club).  I was the only one who hated it.  Including most of the Parents. (Which, now that I think about it, makes me sad).

The thing that killed it for me is when their erstwhile friend comes in and says, "Dudes, pay, or I'll have to evict you" and somehow he's the badguy.  My thought was "WTF?  It's his building, his apartment; you're just renting it and he's the bad-guy because he wants to be paid for the nice space you've got?" 

The homo-sexual allusions and the fact they all had HIV by the end of the 1st act didn't help either.

185 Just heard comedy genius and Canadian national treasure Norm MacDonald doing an uncredited voice-over for a cell-phone place on Las Vegas talk radio.

Damn.  Gambling debts are a bitch.

186 @Ace People call this a "comical" song. It's a funny thing I'm learning -- you can usually tell a whole lot more truth in comedy because more "serious" works are filled with dishonest dramatic posturing. But if you're being funny, you're often being real. I think it was Woody Allen who said something like: "Comedy is eating at the children's table." Great line. But like so many great lines, it's dead wrong. Comedy, for the most part, engages the intellect because so much of comedy is subverting the expected. Whereas drama is mostly playing to the emotions and the expected. So the options in comedy are often defined far more logically than drama. That's why badly-done comedy is so frikking painful to watch. But drama, pfft, you want the audience to cry or sympathize with the main character- easy- have his dog or kid or wife or best friend run over by a car or get shot or have cancer or die in a fire or etc. The options are limitless so the writer can skew away from reality fairly easily.

187 Uh....HELLO?

188 NORM M RULES!!! that is all

189 These are a few of my favorite things:  Earning (and I mean fully and thoughtfully earning a pay-check).  Maybe even once in a while, streamlining a procedure, saving the company money, knowing that you've contributed in your own way, even it was biting one's own tongue to avoid conflict.  Mowing, edging a lawn.  Pulling weeds.  Planting flowers, vegetables; watching them grow.  Raking leaves, mulching.  Cooking a darn good meal for the family to enjoy.  I know, I know, meager, moronic things, simpleton things.

Posted by: Ginger Ale at July 21, 2011 06:17 PM (P0O45)

 

Are you married?  If not, then:  How ya doin'?

190 If you study the theories of creativity, you will find that many think of comedy as the purest form, you take two notions that have not previously been related and create a new view, oh, and Norm rules.

191 In short, life generally really is crap.  We do our best to get through and do our duty.  Let's not romanticise it.

I want to puke every time I hear some fatuous twit say "do what you love".  You know what, you ass, nobody likes selling insurance, changing tires, shingling roofs, or snaking out someone else's toilet.  But someone has to do it.  Nobility of work and all, but still.  Just do it because it pays, and responsible adults earn a living. 

192 I don't have a normal type job, exactly, and when I was in my 20s I never wanted a normal type life. But now I'm married and am a recent father, and that life looks pretty cool. I like coming home most nights and mowing my grass on weekends and not waking up hungover every Saturday. These people that constantly slag on surburbian type people are immature pretentious shitheads.

193 Uh....HELLO?

Posted by: Gary Numan at July 21, 2011 06:22 PM (MMC8r)

I was in a car crash, or was it the wa? But I've never been quite the same....

194 88

Another pleasant valley Sunday......

Here in status-symbol land.....

From Carole King (who wrote the song about West Orange, NJ).The Monkees - avatars of gritty authenticity

195

These people that constantly slag on surburbian type people are immature pretentious shitheads.

New Urbanist (Soviet) Men, they are.

196

I want to puke every time I hear some fatuous twit say "do what you love".  You know what, you ass, nobody likes selling insurance, changing tires, shingling roofs, or snaking out someone else's toilet.  But someone has to do it

You are right, someone has to do it... but that someone does not have to be you.  Let the multi pierced high school drop out be that guy.

197

>> (I also had a Black beauty Ricky, just like Geddy's)

Sweet.  It ain't like I need one more guitar (except I do), and I'd sure love it to be a Rick.

198 But.....but.....WE (artists) are the innovators, and THEY (mundanes) are the imitators!

199

shit.  /sock

Ok I still blame the recession on Jim DeMint.

200 <sub><sup>185 I wonder if any of these stars realize they're cogs in a machine, too, who often just got lucky rather than good? An entertainment executive looks at music demographics, for example, and notes, "Wow, look at the returns on that fledgling "rap" noise! And look here at the abundance of boy-bands that no one can differentiate and that are addressing a dwindling ghey market. We need to shift our assets for the next four quarters and promote Tupac Flabazz out of Detroit. And nix Tighty Whities. I don't care how clean and smooth their sound."

No, it never dawns on them that many of their peers (if not they themselves) really do suck, have highly questionable talent, and but for being in the right place at the right time, would be hobos with no actual insight to anything or anyone asking them opinions on that absence of insight, either.

Just shut up and sing and be grateful you're probably overpaid for knowing very little about an awful lot. And get off my lawn, you damn hippies.</sup></sub>

_{^{Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 21, 2011 06:17 PM (r4t7/)}}

I used to work in radio many years ago and got to meet and deal with many of these fine artists. They in no way think of themselves as cogs in a machine, they ARE THE MACHINE!!!!! Our station would do free concerts at fairs and malls and clubs, and the bands and singers were usually dicks or scrunts. Their managers thought they should be the lead act because their lone mid chart hit was out at that moment. It was hard to tell him that his band members would be scrubbing the walls around the glory holes at the local adult theater in 3 months.

The only ones that got it were the older bands that had success, lost it all, and were now on the comeback. Most of them were the nicest people and very easy to work with.

201 Want to create wealth and hipster status out of thin air?

Create a T-Shirt with the name of a hipster sounding alternative rock band that you made up

Wear it to their coffeehouses and hangouts, act all snobby when you tell people who've never heard of them that "they haven't sold out to the man yet" and "all the underground loves them"

Hipsters for all their "unique individuality" are slaves to fashion and groupthink

202 Yeah, Alvin!

I got it in the 80s for about $250.. Sold it in the 90's for rent, and saw they now go for about $12-1600!!

Makes me ill to think about it.

203 One of the awesome things about Rush is the fact that Neil Peart was very influenced by Ayn Rand, and the lefty music critics felt compelled to lose their minds over it.  Rush, like many other hard rock and heavy metal groups, got accused of being fascists, demonstrating once again, most journalists do not know their own asses from a hole in the ground.

204 lol oops I meant DiT then

205 Hipsters for all their "unique individuality" are slaves to fashion and groupthink

Posted by: kbdabear at July 21, 2011 06:33 PM (so1xa)

 

Truer words were never written. They are utterly uniform, and part of that uniformity is that not one of them can see themselves in an honest light.

206 I want to puke every time I hear some fatuous twit say "do what you love".  You know what, you ass, nobody likes selling insurance, changing tires, shingling roofs, or snaking out someone else's toilet.  But someone has to do it.  Nobility of work and all, but still.  Just do it because it pays, and responsible adults earn a living. 

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2011 06:26 PM (6TB1Z)

 

I go every day to my job because the fruits of my labor give me a nice comfortable home and refuge.  I get to travel and do what I absolutely love doing the best and that's scuba diving.  It let's me eat what I want to eat when I want to eat it.  It let's me buy my own car so that I can drive where I wish.  What many people forget is that work usually only takes eight hours a day.  The rest of the time I'm free to do what I want with the people I want to do it with.  Life is good when I work.

207 I'm not buying fucking insurance from a multipierced high school drop out.

208

Another pleasant valley Sunday......

Here in status-symbol land.....

From Carole King (who wrote the song about West Orange, NJ).The Monkees - avatars of gritty authenticity

Posted by: jas at July 21, 2011 06:29 PM

Funny that she wrote a song symbolizing white bread WASP suburban America and based it on a neighborhood in West Orange that was mostly Jewish.  Kind of like writing a song about Fairfax in LA that was supposed to symbolize suburban materialism

209 Someone needs to clip Sting around the head and tell him to quit singing in that ridiculous Jamaican accent.

210 I don't have a normal type job, exactly, and when I was in my 20s I never wanted a normal type life. But now I am married and recently a father, and a normal life seems pretty cool. I like coming home most nights and seeing my family and I like mowing my grass and not waking up hung over every Saturday. The people that slag on those that lead normal lives and do normal things are immature shitbirds.

211 OK morons, for those who want to create a t-shirt with a fake alternative hipster band name that is so cool "you haven't heard them yet", suggest some kind of hipster-alternative name

Me, I would use Star Trek episode names like Doomsday Machine, The Enemy Within, Naked Time, or Amok Time

There is an actual band named "Spock's Beard"

212

I go every day to my job because the fruits of my labor give me a nice comfortable home and refuge.  I get to travel and do what I absolutely love doing the best and that's scuba diving. 

Where do you usually go, when you can?

As for me, the side businesses I do to increase my income and survive eat into my time, so any diving trips I can make are usually restricted to the gonad freezing and sometimes too murky waters of Big Sur or Monterey.

213 I dont' know why that double posted

214 Funny that she wrote a song symbolizing white bread WASP suburban America and based it on a neighborhood in West Orange that was mostly Jewish.  Kind of like writing a song about Fairfax in LA that was supposed to symbolize suburban materialism

Posted by: kbdabear at July 21, 2011 06:38 PM (so1xa)

It was the 60's...it was all about rebellion, revolution and sticking it to the man...no matter that corporate America was sponsoring it all.

215

http://tinyurl.com/3g8dlyr

I may be lame, but I'm more hardcore than Sting!

I WILL kill HIM!!!!!

216

@24: "Lady Gaga, or Madonna before her, are marginally talented - there are many better singers in the US. But these superior singers are busy working on their singing (and waiting tables) because they aren't able to self promote the way the "stars of the musical industry" are."

A willingness to chug forests of cock helps the career, too.

217

Where do you usually go, when you can?

As for me, the side businesses I do to increase my income and survive eat into my time, so any diving trips I can make are usually restricted to the gonad freezing and sometimes too murky waters of Big Sur or Monterey.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 21, 2011 06:43 PM (ujg0T)

 

As far as my job is concerned, I realized that I had to learn a skill in order to be marketable.  I went to school, worked hard at it, practiced, stuck it out and graduated.  I entered the job market on a lower rung and worked my way up in senority (one has to stay at company to do that).

Where I usually dive is Cozumel.  But I've dove in Hawaii, Thailand, and just recently, Bali.  Next year I have an invitation to go to Australia to dive the Barrier Reef.  Geez, working that everyday job has given me a lot.

218 Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes, Contestants in a suicidal race.

"That is, all you wage-slaves headed to work each day are lemmings in a suicide machine."

I'm thinking of Credence Clearwater Revival that put it on the line and suffered from this artists' systematic machine that consumes creativity.

If your status is secure, it's easy to tag the wage-slave lemmings in a suicide machine analogy as mere fantasy propaganda fabricated for profit. I'm sure that it is. But that doesn't remove the feeling gnawing away at their guts which the American citizen highly skilled journeymen craftsmen in right to work states have. According to the acceptable "likely winners", rather than being America's champions,  they fuck American manufacturing. Outsource. Import. Get a "good job" for globalist corporatists raising the debt ceiling. Be "smart" like Paulson, Romney and Geithner. No need to produce our own military arsenal. We're not even fighting our own wars anymore, anyway, but those for the "international community" of whatever sort for the sake of prestige. There's always another taxpayer to screw over, whether for the "affordable" Trillion-Dollar F-35 international cooperative military industrial effort or for the next fraud fiasco. And those small business entrepreneurs have every confidence in the world given the disadvantages that Perry lays on them.

219 As an actual professional musician (writing from Seoul on a tour of Korea and Japan!) but not a famous superstar, can I just add something here?

The thing I find most fascinating about people with "regular jobs" is how their passions can be non-work-related. I'm not saying that a good middle manager at a large company isn't passionate about their job (I used to be one!), but I know lots of people who do their jobs, do it well, aren't hung up about it, and then go enjoy their leisure time with their families on a boat, which is their true passion - boating. Or fishing. Or hiking, or biking, or whatever. The job is just a means to supporting their family and their leisure pursuits and their retirement, and that's just fine.

As a musician, this shows up as unpossible for me, because if I wasn't doing music for a living, I would be miserable, and life's too short to be miserable IMHO. Is it possible that other musicians project that onto other people who don't share that view? Sure. I think that's pretty unfortunate, because were it not for people working a "regular" lifestyle and wanting to spend a little of their disposable income on music, my professional life doesn't work.

One last thing on the "bohemian lifestyle" - I travel around the US and the world over half the year. Sometimes it's amazing. I get paid to see places that would cost a fortune to visit on a series of vacations. But sometimes it's just exhausting, and the logistics involved inevitably fail, resulting in some incredibly odd and pointless situations. In the military they probably call this "Situation Normal: All Fucked Up." In the music biz, we call it "living the dream," with the same amount of sarcasm applied.

But I wouldn't have it any other way. YMMV.

220 @64: "One of my favorites along this line:

Tax the rich

Feed the poor

Until there are no

Rich no more"

Yeah, and then what, asshole?"

-------------------------------

We've got your answer:

Well, I rob from the rich,

And I give to the poor;

Then the poor become rich,

And I rob some more.

The number one rule of business is to keep the gold for me;

I gotta business to run,

Can't you see?

221
 Talking about jobs makes me curious about something--how many of y'all know someone who hates what they do, but feels trapped in it because the money's good?

222

It was the 60's...it was all about rebellion, revolution and sticking it to the man...no matter that corporate America was sponsoring it all.

Posted by: jas at July 21, 2011 06:43 PM

The perfect 50s suburbia portrayed by sitcoms were mythical places invented by immigrant Jewish writers. Torn down ironically by Jewish songwriters tearing down a nonexistent place dreamed by their parents. Then revived in the "nostalgia" wave of the 70s by Baby Boomers who missed the simplicity of the days that never really existed. Happy Days!

223 227 As an actual professional musician (writing from Seoul on a tour of Korea and Japan!) but not a famous superstar

Neither am I, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night

224 WRONG! Neil Peart is by far the best drummer the world has seen.

225 MrCaniac: "The only ones that got it were the older bands that had success, lost it all, and were now on the comeback. Most of them were the nicest people and very easy to work with."

Amazing what a little humility can accomplish. Granted, I was using a very broad brush, but I had some insight to the business via one of those suburbian executives who picked winners and losers. His son and I would listen to promos and say, "Hey, these guys sound great!" The Executive would laugh and laugh and say, "Not one of the bands in that stack of CD's you have there is going to make it. 'Cept for the Honeydrippers, and that's because of Robert Plant."

It's a tough world where just talent is all you need. Sometimes, that doesn't even matter. "Can you fill a gap" is the operative concern.

226 I've made my living in the arts at various times in my life, primarily as a freelance writer and a commercial artist and illustrator. At some point, I hope to transition to a solely fine arts career, one where I paint all day and get paid good money to do it. Yeah, I know the odds, but from my perspective it's an attainable goal. However, I have two children--now nearly grown and almost ready to be on their own--but when they were younger they frankly didn't care if my work was hanging in a prominent gallery someplace but they cared very much if they had something to eat that day or if we could afford the doctor who could make them feel better when they were sick. To keep them fed and clothed and safe, I've waited tables, worked contract technical and office positions, done manual labor and the like, and I did it without regret, doing whatever it took to see to their welfare. Not patting myself on the back, mind you. I just did (and do) what most parents do. So sure, there's a certain nobility in the struggling, sometimes starving artist who gives all to express a vision of the truth, but a starving artist with kids is a putz.

227 105The king of naval gazing, pompous, out-of-touch blathering is Bruce Springsteen. I can match the stupidity of any other artist's lyric with at least two or three Springsteen lines...and that's just from his early stuff, which was far, far better than anything he has done in the last, oh, 30 years.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 21, 2011 05:51 PM (LH6ir)

Dude, I hate Springstein and his phoney baloney 'Nam Vet workin' man posuering as much as the next guy, but talk like that will get you kicked out of New Joisy.  Be careful up there.

228 The king of naval gazing, pompous, out-of-touch blathering is Bruce Springsteen. Neil Young is on line 1 demanding his crown.

229 Thank you, Ace, for this post. As a recovering liberal artist, I bemoan the decade or two I spent in thrall to that 18th century bohemian ideal. My friends who didn't "graduate" can't figure out why they're divorced, their kids are fucked up, and their spouses are considering going gay/getting a divorce/staying depressed until the end.

I won life's lottery by being born in the USA. I wish I had appreciated it more back in the day, but I sure do now.

And American Beauty sucked, big time.

230 Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 21, 2011 06:43 PM (ujg0T)

Drop the fucking tanks, drive up the coast about 100 miles, and dive like a man. Abalone baby, ABALONE!

231 RUSH is the best live band I've seen. Saw them last year and in their late 50s they sound better than ever. And played a 3 hr show. Sting can EABOD

232

Posted by: pep at July 21, 2011 05:44 PM (6TB1Z)

Thanks! Now I have to listen to it again, been years....

233 My mind is not for rent. To any god or government.

234 Started with Kerouac, and probably well before that.

235

How condescending.  Fuck you Johnny fucking Cougar.

 A bigger, more miserable asshole, you are unlikely to meet.

236 I always thought Mellonhead was a poser.

And the best thing Sprungspring ever did was only good because Manford Mann did it better..

237 36
Bob Seger is the anti-Sting.

Posted by: sifty at July 21, 2011 05:35 PM (ECjvn)

COULD

NOT

AGREE

MORE

i love brother Bob. but his music is redolent of the grittiness of the homan condition, bittersweet, manly, and not pretentious.

238

93-No Whining wrote: "The highest aspiration of these hipster douche bag artistes"

Or to score designer clothes, shoes, comped air and car travel, invites to stay on Panerea, and have flunkies and assistants to do everything for them.

239 I work a "boring' job that gives me the ability to support little artists and also allows me my artistic hobbies.  Screw the superiority complexes of the artists who look down on that job.  It's not glamorous, nor exactly stable in this economy, but it's a good job.

240 46

This is great discussion material. Two of my siblings are artsy people and they are constantly telling me how bored I must be by my existence, while THEY, are NOT existing but "experiencing" life.

Look, I am 47 years old with a wife and two kids (my youngest leaves for college in 2 weeks) and I have worked in commercial insurance for 24 years. And yes, I take great pride in my lawn. Maintaing my lawn makes me happy, ok? So no, I can't write, draw or sculpt. But y lawn is a maserpiece,,, to me. Suck it!

So what if I don't know all the trendy shit? I work hard and don't hurt anyone. What is all the disdain? I kind of get that whole, there has to be more to it than this attitude. I really do. Not to get too personal but I'm a cancer survivor (so far) and I remember all those terrible months of surgery and chemo. I remember really well thinking to myself; "is this all there is?" And I got caught up in that stupid crap for a few weeks. But then I realized something else too. I even made a list of stuff I was going to do before I ceased to be.

I worked on that list for a few hours and well, it was relatively depressing, you know? Then I realized that I was making the wrong list. I started listing all the things I HAD done and seen. You should do that too. My list was long and was full of laughs and tears and thought's of sweaty girls in my pick up. Awesome.

So I say F the arty farty scum.

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at July 21, 2011 05:37 PM (+avak)

THIS.

you brought tears to my eyes. I too live with terminal illness. And i am 20 years past my expiration date. I am an artist and was married to an artist, but we parted ways when i realized that what i was doing with my life was yearning towards the normal, the world of cats and newspapers and cleaning stalls and... I kid you not...on my bucket list was a perfect lawn. I wanted as most horse nomads do, GRASS. Deep green beautiful grass for my dogs and horses to play on.

He wanted hipness (on my dime.) Expensive clothes. Self expresssion with unlimited moral license. Fancy restraunts, 200$ meals, City Life. Whatever.

I found a Marine, drive a 17 year old truck, got my roses and perfect lawn, and water them every night, as "therapy." I got a few horses still, take care of broken abused ones, board a few for friends. While i water the dry edges of my lawn, or sweep out the stable, and watch my feral kittens play in the hay barn, i think: Good God, I love my life.

241

<i> Where I usually dive is Cozumel. But I've dove in Hawaii, Thailand, and just recently, Bali. Next year I have an invitation to go to Australia to dive the Barrier Reef. Geez, working that everyday job has given me a lot. </i>

I was there for 10 days honeymoon once. Best damn diving I ever did, although Mrs Curmudgeon says Great Barrier Reef is even better.

<i> Drop the fucking tanks, drive up the coast about 100 miles, and dive like a man. Abalone baby, ABALONE! </i>

Take all the fun out of it and get stressed in even colder waters to catch something with the texture of tires when cooked and chewed? No thanks.

 

242 Posted by: Curmudgeon at July 21, 2011 06:43 PM (ujg0T)

Drop the fucking tanks, drive up the coast about 100 miles, and dive like a man. Abalone baby, ABALONE!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 21, 2011 07:45 PM (LH6ir)

Hell yeah. Big ab diving fan here !  I love 'em

243 "What the hell is the problem with a nice lawn?" - that there question is really resonating with me right now. This crazy ass hippie lady is *literally* my neighbor and I'm one of the people that keeps filing complaints with the city online about the state of her yard. The fact that her slovenly yard has made the NYT is, I believe, proof positive that I was 1) born to suffer and/or 2) really need to pack up and move to Texas

244

As I get older, I find myself watching TV shows about regular people (Men of a Certain Age, Good Luck Charlie) and passing on the adventure stories.

As far as muisic goes, YouTube makes the best recommendations.

245 I thought the last song was going to be Dire Straits.

That ain't working...money for nothing and your chicks for free...

246

Kudos Ace.

I love the truth. It is so out there and don't the crap avoid it like the plague.

247

Florence King, who used to write for National Review and was much more of a genuine free-thinker than anyone on the left is capable of comprehending (a Southern bisexual royalist atheist who was a fan of organized religion in part because it kept the "little farts (kids) in line") once noted it is no longer possible for  poor but talented would-be artists to starve in a garret in Greenwich Village like they did when Dorothy Parker was a spring chicken precisely because the policies favored by leftist artistes make such boho neighborhoods incredibly expensive to live in.   And if they're affordable, they're terribly crime-ridden (think East Village in the '70's), thanks also to liberal policies.

Florence, bless her contrarian heart,  noted that the little artsy-fartsy neighborhoods beloved by the creative class can only exist if they are supported by a larger, law-abiding non-bohemian majority.  That obvious truth is resisted by the artsy-fartsies because it would require them to acknowledge the humiliating truth that they are dependent on those hum-drum work-a-day types they despise.

 

248

Sorry, but the Bob Seger song about being on the road always sets my teeth on edge.  You know - the one about how hard it is being a star, living out of a suitcase, having people stare at you is. 

Yeah, Bob, it's rough, I'm sure.  Just like being in the frigging gulag, I'm sure.

 

249 i was told there would be any science-y stuff

250 @256, Donna, Bob Seger wasn't a star when he wrote that. He was a working musician, and a long fuckin' way from getting rich.  His rabid fans remember him how he was in the late 60's, early 70's--playing about 300 dates a year to make ends meet, and driving himself to the job.

He used  to have a stage-hand's union card, and made more money moving his own equipment than performing his own songs.  I don't like every single thing about the guy, but he worked his ass off.

251 So what's a libertarian artist to do?

252 Joe also nailed with "Ordinary Average Guy".

253 Nailed it. Sorry.

254 I didn't know Peart was a Randian.

Emphasis on the *was*.  I gather he's quite liberal now (he married a photojournalist and moved to LA with her around 2000) and he's been quoted as saying his earlier songs that punch holes in collectivism are "too simplistic".

255 I'm glad Ace didn't link the Rush video that Verum Serum did (Red Barchetta from the Snakes and Arrows disc) - it's not a terribly good mix even on Blu Ray, and somehow in the transition to YouTube it was made a hundred times worse. It's unbelievably bad. There's a much better live version of the song on the R30 disc.

That being said, Geddy Lee's in his late 50s and he can't hit the high notes like he used to - the guy should just take it an octave down instead of trying to croak through. Love the band, but listening to Geddy trying to sing "Time Stands Still" on the last tour was painful.

Aside from that, damn those guys are great musicians.

256 In after the spam!

Ace, great column.  I think about things like that a lot, since I'm peripherally affiliated with music production and play in a band.

I really love the hooks and performances by The Guess Who.  But every damned one of their songs has to have at least one obnoxious line in it.

Last line of Bus Rider: "I'm so awful god-damned glad I'm not in your shoes"
Takin' care of Business is better, but still makes fun of workers.
American Woman. Excellent guitar hook. Great vocal. Plus: Hate for America!

and on it goes.

257 Evil Red, "Time Stands Still" is a painful song to hear, even in the 90's!

It was after their "We don't care about what our fans want to hear" shift to more keys and sequencing rather than just rocking out.

258 There's another lefty dynamic that's also been touched upon. Most lefties who graduate from college (and maybe this is my DC insularity speaking) go to DC to work in nonprofits. That is, their degrees are too good to be sullied with the Callahan Auto Parts career path. No, these armchair totalitarians are ready to go forth and tell everyone else how to live. See e.g., Barack Obama.

259

the great artists thruout history have been crazy ...  some stark raving mad ...

artists are the last people in the world we should ever consult for ideas to solve todays real world problems ...

260 Fun thought experiment: would you rather be trapped on a deserted island with 50 general contractors or 50 guitar players?

261 Actually, in the song the suicidal race isn't to get to work, it's to get home: Another working day has ended Only the rush hour hell to face Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes Contestants in a suicidal race I actually like that song. I like pretty much anything that prominently features the Loch Ness Monster, particularly when he wants 3.50.

262 Dumb. Dumb Dumb Dumb. Actually, solipsistically stupid. If you believe that other people aren't real--that their ideas and experiences exist only to sharpen and contrast with your own--that's the solipsistic fantasy. Common symptom: distorting the evidence of others' humanity. Another: ignoring, omitting, or denying the very existence of evidence of the humanity of those who are different or who disagree. Watch as you take a few haphazard observations about artists and distort and deny your way to a broad conclusion which is simultaneously ridiculous and neatly congruent with the ornate assumptions of your political arguments. Meanwhile all irony is lost as you claim membership in some honorable blue-color fraternity even as you demonstrate that the 'honest car parts' you are making are factually useless. They only function in a special place where special rules of logic and truth apply, where supply-side economics works beautifully and noble Galtian geniuses are driven to the shadows by fair taxes and the Iraq War was always a clear-eyed and sensible undertaking and liberals are the architects of devious invisible engines of conspiracy yet at the same time are bumbling, transparent fools. You live and work so productively in this right-wing narnia where your every impulse is a gem of constitutional certainty and one particle of inconsistency voids a ton of evidence. The wacky laws and policies that flow from this place look idiotic and nasty in the daylight, but you folks just slap patches on them and maneuver and lie, the bigger and more obvious the better. Oh for a muse of stupidity...it's just too rich. I can't manage. Day after day you fly, hoisted by petard after petard, busily ignoring the smoke and noise to assemble and light more petards. Today you pause to take aim at everyone who makes a successful or popular mockery of your ideas. You sure hate the folks whose petards go off on schedule and in the right place. They must be wrong! Sting is a pompous dick with a few good songs (some of them lamely patriotic and sentimental enough to appeal to Conservative Values ("we work the oxymoronical seam together...")). But it takes an accomplished and charismatic solipsist to generate an indictment of all artists from his slender catalog. Pow! Hey, I can see my house from here! Oh, please, more.

263