1 When did CNN go rogue?

2 In real news, RIP Empire Carpet guy, 588-2-300 Empire!

3
Obama is Paul Anka in...

I N T E G R A T I V E
C O M P L E X I T Y
K I C K

4 MSNBC isn't right. It should be 9.2%, not just shy of 1%

5 So can we find a way to integrate this with the gay thread in a complex way?

6 .1 * .92 = 0.092, or 0.92% 9.2%

7 You forgot to divide by Pie.

8 iknowtheleft, Are you sure? That looks right but I always screw up the "count the decimal places" rule because of INTEGRATIVE COMPLEXITY The smarter you are, the harder math is.

9 In real news, RIP Empire Carpet guy, 588-2-300 Empire!

And after the cat barfs on it, call Hudson 3 2700!

10 8 You forgot to divide by Pie.

Posted by: Integrative Complexity at April 27, 2011 05:00 PM (CHrmZ)

Apple, or Pecan?

11 A full five percent of CNN's airtime was spent on Birther issues.

That explains why the hobos at the bus station are the best informed on this critical issue.

12 Hmm hate to disagree ace but here is how it breaks down.

NBC
10% of Airtime devoted to Obama, of that 92% was "Birther" related => 9.2% of airtime was devoted to Birterism.

Fox
5% of airtime devoted to Obama, of that 8% was "Birther" related =>
0.4% of airtime was devoted to Birterism.

CNN
5% of airtime devoted to Obama, of that 100% was "Birther" related =>
5% of airtime was devoted to Birterism.

Winner of the Birther cup is NBC!!!

13 A subset of that birther airtime was coded “accusing FOX as the sole source of birtherism”, which was 100% of the birther coverage

14 8 You forgot to divide by Pie.
________

Let them divide by cake.

15 10 In real news, RIP Empire Carpet guy, 588-2-300 Empire! And after the cat barfs on it, call Hudson 3 2700! Posted by: General Boushelle at April 27, 2011 05:01 PM (2PTT7) The dude had a disturbing voice (or at least his voiceover guy did). Sounded like he had about 23 teenaged boys in his floorboards and he just carpeted over them.

16 Isn't 92% of 10% 9.2% or I am just showing off my integrative complexity?

17 Partisan political obsessions are a lot like farts -- only your own don't stink.

Remember, there's nothing funny about farts.

Well, except in the shower, I suppose.

18 RELEASE THE FUCKING TRANSCRIPTS!!!!!!!!!!

19 You forgot to divide by Pie.

Posted by: Integrative Complexity at April 27, 2011 05:00 PM (CHrmZ)

I like pie

20 I was told there would be no math!

21 >>Partisan political obsessions are a lot like farts -- only your own don't stink.

Screw the decimal points, this is where you are dead wrong, and I only tell you this for your own good.

22 RELEASE THE BAPTISMAL CERTIFICATE!

23 MSNBC is not giving up.

Matthews is doing 4 of 5 stories on it and Cenek Something or other is going to have an idiot on at 6 floating the "You need to US citizen parents to be natural born" crap.

24 Is going straight to writing the comment before reading the comments saying the same thing only minutes earlier another sign of my integrative complexity?  I am 92%  sure of my 10% confidence interval (aka .94% x pie )that I am correct.

25 IOW, it's something they want to use to paint us as kooks?

Gee, it's what I've been saying all along.

26 Yea gotta re-do this post. Clearly MSNBC takes the cake on this birther business, not CNN.

27 OT - but still on the racist theme:

I would love a thread that asks, 'What specifically has Obama done to make you voice opposition to him?'

Then all comments must start with: Obama did THIS on ---.  I think that . ...   or Obama said THIS on ----.

No generalities, no insults, nothing except specifics and dates/links to prove you did what you say he did.

That way when ever 'someone' says we are all racist (whether here at Ace's place or at home/work/etc.) we can lead them to that thread and say, no - -and here is why we are against him. It has nothing to do with race.

I also want it so I can e-mail it to my mouth breathing family members.

28

Has anyone seen this new Obama BC open in Adobe Illustrator?

http://tinyurl.com/3p7s3rd

It seems that the new BC may actually be a fake.  This only happens in Adobe Illustrator and shows that the cobbled together BC has 8 layers.

29 42

30 Aw, friends, look at this bee-yutiful 1965 Ford Galaxie 500! With the money you save on this TV deal call my friends at Empire and get new carpeting for your bungalow! Remember, friends, Burt Weiman Ford! 3535 NORTH......on Ashland Avenue. Burt. Weiman. FORD!

31 Are we still talking about this? Well, okay. Have at it.

For the record, I think this is just someone in the White House being too clever by half in insulting our intelligence. (Also I don't have photoshop or whatever program was used, but Denninger was a computer guy first, so I assume he knows what he's talking about, at least in that first case).

32 I was told there would be no math!

Posted by: Hrothgar at April 27, 2011 05:06 PM (yrGif)

Where is
Chair 2.71828 π

When you need her?

33 Someone or something queered up the original post.

34 We do not have time for this kind of silliness. I've got to get out to the 10th tee NOW if I'm going to finish this round before dark.

35
It'd be funny if someone made a spoof of Oliver Stone's JFK with the birth certificate.

With  zapruder-esque film footage of someone hiding the birth certificate in 1961.

36

It seems that the new BC may actually be a fake.  This only happens in Adobe Illustrator and shows that the cobbled together BC has 8 layers.

Posted by: Speller at April 27, 2011 05:09 PM (J74Py)

That's about 7 more than Obama has!

37

Corrected: I got MSNBC's fraction wrong and lowballed them at 0.92% when in fact they're at 9.2%. Thanks to iknowtheleft.

You know why I got that wrong, right?

I sure know who it benefits!

38 With  zapruder-esque film footage of someone hiding the birth certificate in 1961.

It was misfiled, in the other cabinet. The one that's back and to the right, back and to the right ...

39 I'd love to know what the 'news item' was that they spent the most time on?

Obama doing end run around Supreme Court, new passport rules, death threats against republicans by Dems., high gas prices, lack of drilling permits (new ones), Obama vacations, Royal Wedding snub. . . .

Plus, which network mentioned the word racist (by either there anchors, commentators, etc) when talking about the Repubs or the Tea Partiers, the most.

40 Fuck CNN.

41 I'm a graphic designer and work with Acrobat and illustrator and pshop all day there's nothing fishy here really and I was VERY involved in the Rathergate thing, too. that was immediately clear. This one is, to me, immediately clear also. It's fine. Beyond fine. Again, apparently Maine in 1966 didn't give out normal BCs - only these weird things. Some states are just weird (or were back then)

42 12
That explains why the hobos at the bus station are the best informed on this critical issue.
Posted by: toby928™ at April 27, 2011 05:01 PM (GTbGH)

That is truly a shame, because excessive exposure to CNN imparts a sour taste to the hobo jerky prepared therefrom.

43 44 Fuck CNN.

Posted by: Mr Pink at April 27, 2011 05:14 PM (6NUy

Well!  I NEVER!!

44 When did Bob Dole start cross dressing and calling himself Candy Crawley, anyway?

45 8 You forgot to divide by Pie.

Posted by: Integrative Complexity at April 27, 2011 05:00 PM (CHrmZ)

It was a math sneer. Because I've got INTEGRATIVE COMPLEXITY I can use the wrong word to convey different meanings.

46 26
Is going straight to writing the comment before reading the comments saying the same thing only minutes earlier another sign of my integrative complexity?  I am 92%  sure of my 10% confidence interval (aka .94% x pie )that I am correct.
Posted by: Mac Gootbone at April 27, 2011 05:07 PM (XCSw/)

No, that qualifies you to adopt the posting name "In before Andrew Breitbart". Use it with pride, 'Ron or 'Ronette!

47 Is going straight to writing the comment before reading the comments saying the same thing only minutes earlier another sign of my integrative complexity?

If by integrative complexity you mean all-encompassing moronicity, why yes, yes indeed...

48

Ace, with regards to the media, Whoopi and everyone crying 'racist' because we wanted to see Obama's birth certificates, there's a double standard that I don't think any of us recalled today.

How many Democrats, celebrities and news people questioned George W Bush's legitimacy as President after the 2000 election? LONG AFTER the Florida ballot was settled.

Remember the cries of "BUSH STOLE THE ELECTION!!" and "BUSH IS NOT MY PRESIDENT!" It wasn't well until Kerry was defeated that I finally stopped hearing those cries. And NOT ONCE, did I ever see the media browbeat those people or cast them in a negative light.

Just a thought.

49
The Magic Birth theory.

Obama was born in Kenya and in Indonesia, and then, twelve hours later, he was born in Hawaii.

How is this possible? People got the right to know!

50 Speller, Please. What did we all say? We said "It doesn't matter if he does show his birth certificate because you will immediately claim it's forged." Do you have any self-awareness at how knee-jerk and predictable you are? Why is it everyone was able to guess your response? Is that because you're being clever or unclever?

51 I Dont care whether the BC is fake or HI uses some goofy apps when they make BC copies to give people, and I think states make COPIES --- I have two copies of my ND official 'BC'. When I had to pay $$ to get it in a hurry to expedite a passport I figured I would get a spare copy in case the state dept or post office lost one. The only way the BC should be an issue for conservatives is: how rude of Barry not to provide this 3 years ago and then to take up press time on it today when Bernecke had a press conference, Gates is stepping down, Panetta is being proposed for Sec of Def (and I suppose Lindsey Graham and his special buddies will join with D's to rubber stamp it even though Panetta will be awful) and they are taking Patraeus out of the battle field to run the CIA.

52 I remember all that "Bush Stole the Election!" stuff EXTREMELY well, Canadian Infidel. It was, in fact, why I turned away from all my liberal friends, family, and coworkers. It was ridiculous. People were ready to off themselves, they were seriously losing it. FOR MONTHS. And this is becoming a little over the top too, maybe. I mean, maybe it's just me but I'm kind of really sick of the birth documentation thing.

53 How many times are people going to bite hard and gullibly on the claims of self-declared "document verification experts" who have been proven wrong again and again about every single claim they've made? How many times do you give these guys credence before you start to suspect that maybe these guys are just making shit up, and you're just believing anything that implies maybe you're still right? How many times? The "layers" thing is already being knocked down. Let me ask this: If that "expert testimony" is proven to be nonsense YET AGAIN, are you just going to fall for their next claim, too? If you are... man, you really need to take a look at the situation here.

54 Has anyone seen this new Obama BC open in Adobe Illustrator?

Bugger.  Don't have the SW so I can't test.

Still, wouldn't put it past some wiseguy to take a legit scan and layer it out just to draw out the drama.  I guess this is officially an undead subject--it won't.  Stay.  Dead...

55 49
Posted by: Integrative Complexity at April 27, 2011 05:17 PM (XO/km)

You cannot suppress me forever, Evil Twin!

56 The problem with all this birth certificate stuff is that it was a distraction from the REAL issues: for example, I would love to see Sarah Jessica Parker's dental records.

57 Wasn't it ace that calculated you could walk at a rate of 20 mph or so in Egypt?

58 for example, I would love to see Sarah Jessica Parker's dental records.

Posted by: CoolCzech at April 27, 2011 05:23 PM (kUaEF)

She's a Kentucky Walker, I believe.

59 Sorry if this has already been suggested, but the only explanation I can think of behind the layers in the birth certificate pdf file is that Obama's trying to support Trump's motivation to run on a 3rd party ticket by giving the birthers some technical bullshit to go crazy over.

60
We need A List of Movies You've Only Seen The Commercials For But Feels Like You've Watched Them

Ace mentioned Malcolm X, earlier.
For me: JFK.

61

I watched the view clip and they said Trump was racist because he said Obama should stop playing basketball and to question affirmative action is racist.

I am content to let these retards run with that for awhile, even here in washington we had an initiative to end affirmative action at UW. It passed with over 65% of the vote.

They have totally killed the power of the word racist trying to cover for Obama. People are numb to it now.

62 From the link in 39

WhatÂ’s not plausible is that the government spent all this time manufacturing ObamaÂ’s birth certificate only to commit the laughably rookie mistake of exporting the layers from Photoshop, or whatever photo editing software they are meant to have used.

National Review's defense consists of asserting the Obama regime's competence. LOL.

Seriously though, if those of you familiar with the programs involved can vouch that this is no biggie, I guess it isn't.

63
of course; only black men play basketball

64

there's nothing fishy here

Oh, thank God.  I thought it was me.

65 White men can't jump.

66 CNN and MSNBC will sorely miss this issue, if it is replaced by an even more strident drumbeat for the transcripts to be revealed. They loved flogging the conspiracy thing of those wanting the birth certificate, because of how well it allowed them to portray republicans as ignoramuses. The school records thing won't work nearly as well, and has the potential of causing damage far in excess of the one that just went away.

67 Wasn't it ace that calculated you could walk at a rate of 20 mph or so in Egypt?

Posted by: Andrew Breitbart at April 27, 2011 05:23 PM (qIHlG)

That was an Egyptian mile.  They're made out of cubits.

68 It seems that the new BC may actually be a fake.

Dude let go of the bone. It's over. Their is no path you can take from here that leads to getting rid of Obama based on citizenship. At this point you could have eye witnesses, photographic evidence, Obama's hand and feet prints on a Kenyan BC, his moms passport stamped off in a US port of entry 1 day before his reported birth, and the court case would stretch long beyond 2012, and likely into election season 2016.

69

George Washington Carver made the first basketball.

Out of a Peanut!

70 Heard on the radio that the layers were caused by the process of scanning the document. Apparently the OCR software creates them in order to clear up the image for printing.

71 Folks, the more I think about it, the less the layer thing means anything.  I could take a scanned image of that thing and break selected parts out into new layers all day if I wanted to, just using an obsolete version of Photoshop.

Remember:  The point of proof is not that a thing could have happened, it is that it did happen.  Even if--and this is a 72pt, capital, bold, italic, and underlined 'if'--this was a fake document, there is no reasonable way we'd ever be able to tell from an electronic facsimile.

Which means, I guess, in the absence of the original, the beat goes on.

72 61 Wasn't it ace that calculated you could walk at a rate of 20 mph or so in Egypt?
Posted by: Andrew Breitbart

Only if you're a shepherd on his way to wed his favorite goat.

73 NeoBirthers = 7 Layer Dipshits

74

The smarter you are, the harder math is.

That's what all the lawyers tell themselves anyway.

75

"It doesn't matter if he does show his birth certificate because you will immediately claim it's forged."

How about we examine the hell out of it for awhile because it matters whether or not it's an authentic document instead of your own kneejerk reaction to accept things at face value from the Liar in Chief?  Isn't that the point of documents?  Examining them because they are supposed to prove something?

76 58, 63
These.

77 >>>Folks, the more I think about it, the less the layer thing means anything. I could take a scanned image of that thing and break selected parts out into new layers all day if I wanted to, just using an obsolete version of Photoshop. That's what another commenter was saying, it's not evidence it was made in layers, but just that it is capable of being *analyzed,* taken apart, in layers, which proves nothing, since most documents can be examined in layers. This is where people are claiming false expertise and making all sorts of silly claims well outside their knowledge base. "I can make it into layers therefore it must have been created in layers." FALSE. At some point the people who keep believing the poeple who are always wrong have to start asking why, why should they keep listening to the same people who have been wrong and wrong and wrong again and then wrong some more and then topped it off with cherries and wrongsause.

78

Isn't that the point of documents?  Examining them because they are supposed to prove something?

Wait.  Is pr0n considered "documents"?

79 The problem with all this birth certificate stuff is that it was a distraction from the REAL issues: for example, I would love to see Sarah Jessica Parker's dental records.

Posted by: CoolCzech at April 27, 2011 05:23 PM (kUaEF)

Damn it ErikW!  I was going to say:

Her vet won't release them

80

It's over. Their is no path you can take from here that leads to getting rid of Obama based on citizenship.

How about putting out enough doubt about Obama's veracity and methods that people won't pull the lever for him a second time.  That's enough reason for me to keep hammering any issue until it doesn't make any more noise.

81 70: Transcripts -Oh I'd love to see them too, but without course descriptions I doubt they will be a smoking gun on Barry's stupidity. I'd bet real money that he didn't get a scholarship at any place he attended and that he only ever took courses where BSing in class discussions and papers determined 90% of the grades and I'd suspect a ghostwriter for any courses where the papers had to make cogent arguments and reference facts.

82 Speller, I tuned you out when you informed me that Africans -- like, from Africa -- were not referred to as Africans until the "90's." You obviously meant AFRICAN-AMERICANS, African-AMERICANS became the popular term for black americans in the 90s, displacing blacks (and before that, Negroes). You seemed to not understand that Obama's father, being African-African, not African-American, would be called African, and in fact we'd been referring to Africans as such for... ever. But whatever there is to support your Conclusion that Continues Spinning Out New Evidence, you seize on it. So suddenly it's the case (a fact, I'm sure, which will gain currency as fact in the next 48 hours) that it's suspcious to refer to an actual Kenyan as an African and that of course a hospital would have said "Negro," so we are looking at a likely crude forgery here.

83 Fuckin' math - how does it work?

84 I could walk an Egyptian mile in seconds.

85

Anybody else notice that the Obama Birth Certificate is printed on papyrus?

When did Hawaii stop using papyrus?

86 This is the eye-roll thing I mean. I know you find it condescending and insulting but when someone is spouting nonsense and made-up "facts" what is one to do but roll one's eyes?

87

Her vet won't release them

Posted by: momma aka Arabic translators deployed in Iraq are needed in Afghanistan at April 27, 2011 05:34 PM (penCf)

Great minds and all that rot.

88

FAKE CAKE

89

How about putting out enough doubt about Obama's veracity and methods that people won't pull the lever for him a second time.  That's enough reason for me to keep hammering any issue until it doesn't make any more noise.

Posted by: Speller at April 27, 2011 05:34 PM (J74Py)

Sometimes you could just accept the fact that you won and move on. 62% of Americans were questioning or sure he wasn't born here. The damage is done. Time to stop now.

90 O/T:  For those who are interested:  "Transcript And Word Cloud Of The FOMC's "Historic" First Ever Media Pantomime"  link

91  Has anyone else seen the question at TSG on the name of the hospital on the document not actually being the the name until 1978 after a merger, and has that been shot down/verified?

_{Sorry about mentioning smoking guns, and shooting down and everything, but I did use initials.}

92 81:  Ugh, I'm on board with ya here, ace.  I swear that's why we got the digital copy instead of the original, if it exists--he can 'answer' without answering, and thus keep the drama going longer.  Brilliant, in a sick and twisted kind of way.

I'm going back to watching tornadoes demolish small towns.  Less damage done there.

93 Pretty mediocre photographic fakery; they cut off your brother's hair!

94

Speller, I tuned you out when you informed me that Africans -- like, from Africa -- were not referred to as Africans until the "90's."

That isn't what I wrote. Read it again.  I wrote that "Africans" isn't a racial category and wasn't considered one to be written on official documents.  Negro is/was the correct word.

95 I'm kind of curious about the guy willow mentioned this morning.  I had absolutely no idea that some one was in jail over the birther issue. 

96

Negro is/was the correct word.

Not in my neck of the woods, Yankee.

97 99 I think some kind of officer in the military refused deployment orders over it or something.

98 >>>That isn't what I wrote. Read it again. I wrote that "Africans" isn't a racial category and wasn't considered one to be written on official documents. Negro is/was the correct word. And we know that if a guy said "I'm african" or his wife did the hospital would change that to Negro? How do we know this? When did people suddenly become such experts on such arcane subjects as 1961 Honolulu Hospital routine-document terminology stylebooking?

99 How about we examine the hell out of it for awhile because it matters whether or not it's an authentic document

can you tell me why?
At this point there is no way to effectively use that information to remove him from office. Years in court first just to come to a determination, then, to decide if courts can actually disqualify a President. That's two long painful trips to SCOTUS. If we keep charging up this hill it will prove a lot of things about us.

1. We're stupid. Because we would rather play a court game we will lose than talk politics we can win.
2. We're unreasonable. If I were him, I would have put explainable sh*t in there in document formatting just to keep you folks riled up and return the issue to right wingers are crazy.
3. We're not focused on politics, we are focused on him => Racist.

What would you do if you found something in their that looks like it is probably faked? Just how does that help us? Hmmm? How? How do we turn that into a WIN!? YEARS OF COURT!?
MEDIA!?
HOW??

100

When did Hawaii stop using papyrus?

 

It's a Whole Field of Whacky Weedus!

Get me some Papyrus...some Rolling Papyrus.

101 102 Looking at the birth certificate of a Canadian-American  who was born in Hawaii might help.

102 Why do Republicans and Tea Party people go on MSNBC? Matthews is in a spit flecked rage about this birther crap and he's just pounding some Tea Party dude and a Republican state senator from AZ. Help me out here, Andrew. I know you're there.

103 "And then I reached into Stanley's unclean liberal pooter and pulled out the future President..." Fuck being THAT doctor.

104 >> Negro is/was the correct word.

Holy shit, you're right! Definitive proof is found in Caddyshack: "This is good stuff. I got it from a Negro." ~ Spaulding Smails

Anyone who wrote anything but "Negro" when filling a form like that out is WRONG!

Of course, that doesn't have any impact whatsoever on whether Obama was born in Hawaii.

105 ace, just a thought. It may be less that folks are taking claims of expertise on face value, than that they're generally willing to believe that Obama and his supporters lie 24/7 about everything. Which isn't news among folks here and isn't necessarily a strategy (at least on this specific issue), but I think it'll be interesting to see how much of this persists in polling.

106 Didn't she die of rotting pooter disease?

107 I just think it is funny that the name of the Registrar on the BC is U K L Lee

108 Negro is/was the correct word.

Yeah you forget his parents were on the cutting edge of political correctness, progressivism, multiculturalism, redistributionism, the civil rights movement, and communism.

I can see your not getting the burden of proof we now need.
Here let me use pictures.

--------> Documentation is definitely fake!!!! 100% no doubt!!!!!
--------- The bar you need to be above to be taken seriously.







-------->Document is almost definitely fake!!!!! 99%!!!!!!

109

Fuck being THAT doctor.

 

The corona...it BURNS!

110 I have never understood why someone would give a male name to a female in that day and age when everyone wanted to fit in?  I mean "stanley anne", how did she not despise her parents for that name.

111 I'll have you know I majored in 1961 Honolulu Hospital routine-document terminology stylebooking,  I minored in kerning and pron.

112 Unbelievable.

We're finally starting to win on facts on arguments. His incompetence is on full display. People are starting to listen to the economics.

And now we're going to froth over...this crap?

It's a dog whistle.  He blows, you're going nuts.  "Squirrel!"

If you can't see that...I don't know.

113 95 Has anyone else seen the question at TSG on the name of the hospital on the document not actually being the the name until 1978 after a merger, and has that been shot down/verified?
_________

The same name is on the Nordyke twins' certificates, which have, until now, been the gold standard of true and valid certificates among the birthers.

114 9 iknowtheleft,

Are you sure? That looks right but I always screw up the "count the decimal places" rule because of

INTEGRATIVE COMPLEXITY

The smarter you are, the harder math is.   Tell me about it!

115

And we know that if a guy said "I'm african" or his wife did the hospital would change that to Negro?
How do we know this?

Fine, then show me one other official Hawaiian Long Form BC from 1961 or within a 5 year period either way that has African or some other notation for Negro in the Race question category and I'll admit I'm wrong and drop that particular line of inquiry.

116 OT - but still on the racist theme:

I would love a thread that asks, 'What specifically has Obama done to make you voice opposition to him?'

Then all comments must start with: Obama did THIS on ---.  I think that . ...   or Obama said THIS on ----.

No generalities, no insults, nothing except specifics and dates/links to prove you did what you say he did.

That way when ever 'someone' says we are all racist (whether here at Ace's place or at home/work/etc.) we can lead them to that thread and say, no - -and here is why we are against him. It has nothing to do with race.

I also want it so I can e-mail it to my mouth breathing family members.

Posted by: momma aka it was like Special Olympics, or something at April 27, 2011

 

I like this idea

117 What is wrong with the name UKL Lee?

118

BREAKING!!!

OBAMMA'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE IS FROM ADOBE PHOTOSHOP 11...A VERSION THAT DOESN'T EXIST YET...FROM THE FUCKING FUTURE!!!

119 You know why I got that wrong, right? Bush? (posted via shitty ipad.)

120 >>No generalities, no insults, nothing except specifics and dates/links to prove you did what you say he did. No insults, no generalities .... You do know where you are, right?

121 Fine, then show me one other official Hawaiian Long Form BC from 1961
Burden of proof.
I guess you don't get it. The burden is on you.

Why don't you get every other person who has a black parent within a 5 year period to release their long form and prove to us "African" was never used except on this BC, and maybe then we will stop telling you to STFU on this particular line of inquiry.

122

Fine, then show me one other official Hawaiian Long Form BC from 1961 or within a 5 year period either way that has African or some other notation for Negro in the Race question category and I'll admit I'm wrong and drop that particular line of inquiry.

Posted by: Speller at April 27, 2011 05:52 PM (J74Py)

I don't understand what difference it makes? African isn't anymore right today than it was in 1961 describing a race. There are a lot of white africans.

123 Curious, Your naivete is almost intoxicating. OF COURSE she despised her father - look at the men she fucked. She was named Stanley because her father wanted a son. And now YOU are paying for her working out her daddy issues with every filthy immigrant she could plop her indescribably foul libtard pooter down upon. Aint this a great country?

124 >>> Fine, then show me one other official Hawaiian Long Form BC from 1961 or within a 5 year period either way that has African or some other notation for Negro in the Race question category and I'll admit I'm wrong and drop that particular line of inquiry. How many african citizens do you imagined sired children in hawaii during this period? I can't help but notice there's always *one more* document you want. And if such a document is produced, you'll drop it? or will you simply move on to the next one? See, this is the thing that is driving me a little batty. It's that you're not standing by, and accepting the consequences of, your claims and their final dispositions. if proven wrong five times, no biggie, just on to the next claim, and no one's supposed to notice "hey, dude, you keep being wrong, why should I play this game? You have no apparent resolve to stand behind these claims, once proven false, and be judged according to the wrongness of your position. You just sluff them off like water off a duck's back and move on to the next series of dubious claims and premises." That being the case, why should anyone engage? It's fruitless. There is no "winning." There is no point at which you will say "Okay, I seem to have gotten this wrong." It will just be this new document (another birth certificate from an african-born child in Honolulu) and then after that, this new one, and then this one, and then this one. Let's cut to the chase: You believe this. Period. Evidence is irrelevant. You don't need evidence to believe this, and contrary evidence won't sway you. That is the situation. So why should we both mutually pretend that this is an evidence-based discussion and that the "winner" will be determined by evidence? You know it won't be; I know it won't be. So let's just admit the obvious: You believe what you want to believe and evidence has nothing to do with it. So any discussion of the evidence either way is a futile mug's game. If evidence didn't dig the hole, there's no evidence that can be constructed into a ladder to get you out.

125 His father was a drunk and his mother was a whore.

126 Your naivete is almost intoxicating.

I'm more impressed by curious's thick skin. I've seen trolls wilt under the barrage curious sometimes gets.

127 Her father who never married or lived with her mother?

128 @ ace, Go easy. We all had a hard time letting go of the Anne Hathaway buttsex story when it was debunked. You stand on his dreams. Tread lightly.

129

Obama sucks as president.  That's all I have.

130 There are pictures of said pooter on the interwebs. She also looks drugged.

131 Let's stipulate that I have handled more birth records then most morons (as an FSO and consular ass't) . The "African" designation does not bother me at all. Those things are all over the map for foreigners and American Indians. What does is the rest of the file, where are the annotations for the adoption, for the name change back to his birth name, etc.

132

Fine, then show me one other official Hawaiian Long Form BC from 1961 or within a 5 year period either way that has African or some other notation for Negro in the Race question category and I'll admit I'm wrong and drop that particular line of inquiry.

Posted by: Speller at April 27, 2011 05:52 PM (J74Py)

I don't understand what difference it makes? African isn't anymore right today than it was in 1961 describing a race. There are a lot of white africans.robtr at April 27, 2011 05:56 PM

I guess you don't get it. The burden is on you.

To prove a negative i would have to have every BC ever made in Hawaii in the '60s when a single example other than Obama's  BC  with the word "African" in the race question category would prove me to be wrong?  I'll just take the position that "African" as a race is wrong and people who accept it as a real possibility that a genuine document would have that are ridiculous.

 

133 There are pictures of said pooter on the interwebs. She also looks drugged.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at April 27, 2011 06:05 PM (qIHlG)

 

FRAUD!!!!

They didn't even have interwebs back then.

134 His father smelled of elderberries was a drunk and his mother was a hamster whore.

135 138 They did have shitty cameras and film though.

136 FRAUD!!!! They didn't even have interwebs back then. Or Nair, apparently.

137 - The document is a faked COLB, not a BC (see title of document).
- The hospital named on this COLB didn't exist under that name in 1961. It was called Kauikeolani ChildrenÂ’s Hospital. It merged to be called the hospital on the doc in 1978!
- Kenya was called the British East Africa Protectorate until 1963.
- Barry's father would have been listed as "Negro", and not "African", which is not a race.
- The physician's signature is from a conveniently dead doctor (died in 2003).

Include all of the discrepancies - white space around paste-ins, odd fonts and spacing - and you've got a very obvious fake.

138 This Speller guy just doesn't know when to quit.

139 I'll just take the position that "African" as a race is wrong and people who accept it as a real possibility that a genuine document would have that are ridiculous.

Have you never dealt with the stupidity that is government bureaucracy? I have no problem beliving some pencil pusher just copied the given response whether it made seense or not.

140 You stand on his dreams. Tread lightly.

I had an old GF once that worked as a paramedic. She told me, in the throws of serious grief, you had to use the bluntest terms possible "Your father is dead" not "passed on" not "deceased" not "expired"  but "DEAD" because in their grief, only the bluntest wording, unambiguous and unavoidable could break through the emotional denial.

So Speller is trying to piss up a rope. Not my problem... except every person on our side that sticks on this issue at this point is hurting us.

So if no one else will say it I will.

Birtherism is DEAD say goodbye however you want, do a wake, schedule a funeral, have a memorial service, whatever, but bury it and *let* *it* *go*
 

141

The Obamas, worshipping the Oprah today, had mention of the BC by Oprah. Moochelle, with greasy legs, held her gigantic hands apart and said "he was born here."Laugh. Giggles. Race cards under the table. I did not hear the answer as I only just saw this on FOX News.

 I did not know he was born in Chicago on the Oprah altar, but in a way he was. Without her he maybe would not have been elected. I actually overheard (in 200 for the primaries one coworker say to another that she voted for Obammy because Oprah said so. This is the mentality we are dealing with, peoples! So, he released his BC, finally, on the same day of the big show so he could pick and jive on the birthers at a press conference and her show. Coincidence?

His nasolabial mole is growing with each lie.

142 None of this matters. You will never remove this sitting president no matter what the facts might be.

143  I'll just take the position that "African" as a race is wrong and people who accept it as a real possibility that a genuine document would have that are ridiculous.

 

Posted by: Speller at April 27, 2011 06:06 PM (J74Py)

Yeah either that or whoever the $4 an hour employee was in 1961 that typed the document wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and thought African was a race.

Then again you could believe that the whitehouse went to all this trouble to forge a document conspiring with the entire health department of the state of hawaii and didn't know that african was not a race.

144 Not sure how or why that smiley face just appeared in above comment. I am sure I will be hauled off to the camp soon.

145 you've got a very obvious fake.

So what? Can we prove it? Nope. To bad huh?

146 We all know that government documents are never wrong. (Ace. would that count as irony?)

147

if proven wrong five times, no biggie, just on to the next claim, and no one's supposed to notice "hey, dude, you keep being wrong, why should I play this game?

That's just a strawman, ace.  What 5 times are you talking about?  This document is new, people who care are examining it.  Accepting anything at face value from the Obama WH isn't reasonable.  Why was it reasonable that he didn't show this document until today again?

As I said, produce a Hawaiian BC from the period, maybe some U.S. Navy personnel were Negros and had spouses in Hawaii during the period, surely there were Negros living in Hawaii other than Obama(who I know was the only Negro enrolled at the University at that time) just one single solid reason to believe that the BC would have such an uncommon answer as African in the "race" category.

148 why that smiley face

8
)

8 )

149 Smileys can be produced by certain codes.

150

Posted by: Issaquah at April 27, 2011 06:09 PM (r1b5V)

 

Those are interesting points.  I'm going to go look them up to see if they're true.  If they are, well, then my doubts about this document will stand.  

I can't trust this regime in regards to anything.  I don't know why so many people here are suddenly convinced considering how these people (Barky's minions) operate. 

151 >>Those are interesting points. I'm going to go look them up to see if they're true. If they are, well, then my doubts about this document will stand. Well I'm no authority on Hawaiian hospitals but the Kenya claim is bullshit. It was renamed the Colony of Kenya in the 1930s or so and then just Kenya when it got independence in 1963. One down.

152

 @Ace,

"But who was distracted by this? If, as Obama says, this was a "distraction" from "real issues" and therefore "silliness" -- which network(s) fed their partisan viewers a steady diet of this silliness?"

See that is what makes this all so suspicious. If it were a "non-issue" then why were they pushing it so much. I think the answer to that question is obvious. It was a serious issue, and Obama and the media knew they could spin it in their favor and use it as a Political Weapon.

The transcripts are coming out right before the election, but only the ones that show him as a genius, and those same people that drove the Birther Bus, are gonna get beat down with the same tactic. 

153

Then again you could believe that the whitehouse went to all this trouble to forge a document conspiring with the entire health department of the state of hawaii and didn't know that african was not a race.

Maybe they're only playing it to Democrats or the 98% Black Americans who still cling to Obama.  They F'd up on the 1st COLB and this is consistent with that.  Also, the ENTIRE Hawaiian Health Department(you know, the one that said 2 months ago that this document couldn't be located for the Governor of Hawaii) doesn't have to be in on it.

154 I can't trust this regime in regards to anything.  I don't know why so many people here are suddenly convinced considering how these people (Barky's minions) operate.

For me it's because this wont be why he leaves the office of the presidency. Lawyers, delays.... Find a better target and fire for effect.

155 As I said, produce

As I said. He has produced evidence, which is beyond preponderance. He could stand pat in any court on in the US, and he would win. If we (meaning you not me) doubt at this point it is our (meaning you not me) responsibility to provide evidence proving it is forged.


_{psssst you may not have noticed. But your issue died in its sleep this morning. It hadn't been healthy for some time, so this shouldn't be a surprise; I know it seemed like it was getting better in the last few days, but they often do right before they die.}

156 Shouldn't we be celebrating the wonder that is Obama - he is the first person born with foreign citizenship to become president in 200 years - and he has a copy of a BC to prove it.

157 Didn't some off-white Egyptian kid get kicked out of a college after applying as an "African-American"?

158 Dude, African isn't a race.

159 142 - The document is a faked COLB, not a BC (see title of document).

The Nordyke twins' documents also say "certificate of live birth". The earlier released document was a "certificaTION of live birth".

- The hospital named on this COLB didn't exist under that name in 1961. It was called Kauikeolani ChildrenÂ’s Hospital. It merged to be called the hospital on the doc in 1978!

The Nordyke twins' documents give the same name for the hospital.

- Kenya was called the British East Africa Protectorate until 1963.

A) You try typing all that in the small box

B) I believe Obama's father was involved in throwing the Brits out. He would doubtless have referred to it as Kenya before the name was official. If you ask him "where are you from?" he may well have said "Kenya".

- Barry's father would have been listed as "Negro", and not "African", which is not a race.

I have no response to that.

- The physician's signature is from a conveniently dead doctor (died in 2003).

Gasp! The audacity of that man!

160 - The physician's signature is from a conveniently dead doctor (died in 2003)
Posted by: Issaquah at April 27, 2011 06:09 PM (r1b5V)

What exactly is 'convenient' about someone dying at 81?

There's no difference between Triggers, Truthers and Birthers.

You're all cranks who need to be shunned.

161 Birtherism is DEAD say goodbye however you want, do a wake, schedule a funeral, have a memorial service, whatever, but bury it and *let* *it* *go*

Good.  Then you can stop calling people who want to examine this NEW purported document names and let us examine it without stupid little dogs nipping at our heels and pissing on our shoes.

162 At this point Birtherism is dead, because the bottom line is, the way the that Alinsky-ite's operate, you would be a fool not assume that Obama and his minions have been driving the Birtherism Bus all along.  

163 Prior to large scale database use, the race and religion fields (actually blanks) - were inconsistent. Data standards varied widely.

164 At this point it's clear Birthers are as interested in evidence as Al Gore and the rest of the Hide the Decline brigade.

You guys should be proud.

165

I was looking at the Hot Air version and didn't see a birth weight or length on the baby.   All birth certificates have that in addition to footprints on the reverse side.   Is there another version I've missed?

 

166

I'll admit that I'm as interested in examining the evidence as some people are interested in slagging me as a "birther".

Why they aren't interested in allowing the examination of evidence instead of accepting Obama at face value I do not understand.  For 3 years people like me have been asking for this evidence and supposed "conservatives" slagged us for even asking to see this evidence and now we want to examinie it(because of  3 years  of waiting for no good reason)  and now they don't want this document examined with skepticism?

Where is the "embarassing" info on this document that Obama said was the reason we couldn't see it? 

I don't understand what the problem is. 

167

MikeTheMoose, thanks! I was worried that my tinfoil hat was flawed. I can see how that would look like a stupid emoticon.

I *hate* smiley faces. Also when people email me with lots of !!! and emoticons. But have been grouchy since Dear Leader was coronated.

168 I don't understand what the problem is.
Posted by: Speller at April 27, 2011 06:45 PM (J74Py)

That pretty much sums up your problem.

169 Speller, how about you examine it, quietly, without offering your tentative opinions that it's fake based on make-'em-up stuff you're spitting out off the top of your head? That is not "examining." That is just looking for reason to call bullshit, and it plays into the rap on the birthers: That they don't care about the birth certificate, and if it's released, the first thing they'll say is "Forgery." How about just examining it quietly, and giving it at least three days research and scrutiny before popping off with that automatic, reflexive, completely-predicted response? How about at least pretending you're giving it some real thought before automatically gainsaying it?

170 The really important question concerning MSNBC is; what percentage of airtime was devoted to a shameless display of Contessa Brewer's jiggly feeder bags? 

171 I am still not convinced. Government documents are pretty easy to forge, especially if you are IN CHARGE of the government. I want to see what they wrote down in his family Koran.

172

After looking around a little bit, I'm staying very doubtful about this document.  

173

Speller, how about you examine it, quietly, without offering your tentative opinions that it's fake based on make-'em-up stuff you're spitting out off the top of your head?

Actually I got the Adobe Illustrator idea from somewhere else on the net and the "African" in the race question space as my original point is still good as gold with none of you BirtherLabelers able to give a decent reason  for it other than tentative opinions that it's possible based on make-'em-up stuff you're spitting out off the top of your heads. 

174 Speller,

Do you make your tinfoil hat our of Reynolds or is store brand good enough?

175 170 I was looking at the Hot Air version and didn't see a birth weight or length on the baby. All birth certificates have that in addition to footprints on the reverse side. Is there another version I've missed?
________

I don't see them on the Nordyke twins' documents either.

As for another version, there'd be the fancy one given to his mother. That would be where I would expect to see length, weight, and footprints. I don't know that the state would be interested in archiving those bits of information.

176 Why they aren't interested in allowing the examination of evidence instead of accepting Obama at face value I do not understand.

Because, true or false, there is no way to make it into a "win" where we get rid of Obama and Continuing on this course will cost us, and may cost us dearly.

without stupid little dogs nipping at our heels and pissing on our shoes.

Not while you're dumping my food bowl in the trash by continuing to push this.

Just to keep those shoes moist:
If your next question is "How can this hurt us?"

You are an idiot.

177 >>>After looking around a little bit, I'm staying very doubtful about this document. Which was perfectly predictable and often predicted. That after all this outcry of "release the birth certificate," that when he did so, you'd say forgery. Everyone's playing their roles as predicted. It's fine, it's fine. As I said, I know you can't talk someone down from a conspiracy theory. Like alcohol, they have to want to give their sustaining addiction up. It's fine. But please understand that the rest of us will not be entertaining this any longer.

178 That's all you BirtherLabelers have got isn't it Drew? Just slagging folks who want to get to the bottom of this question is all you've got. Ad hominems and slurs. Since asking about Obama's birth certificate has hurt Obama more than it's helped him, why has it been 3 years that Obama has been sitting on this document? Why can't we dish it to the Dems the way they dished it for 8 years of Bush? Every stick is good to wack them with.

179 >>>Just slagging folks who want to get to the bottom of this question is all you've got. You got to the bottom of the question and the questions still continue. AS PREDICTED. You are not asking questions. You already know the answers. You are just looking for whatever facts possible to sustain what you already believe. That is fine, but let's don't pretend anyone's 'examining evidence" here. You are pounding evidence into strange shapes to fit a conclusion. The facts and their shapes can always change but the conclusion is always exactly the same. This is what makes a conspiracy theory a conspiracy theory.

180

Just to keep those shoes moist:
If your next question is "How can this hurt us?"

Answer, it can't.  Yesterday over 62% believed it hurt Obama.  You want to get through to people on the weightier issues, fine.  If that were possible, or even the only route to success, then why is Obama President today if economic issues were the only way?

People vote Dem because of the way they feel, not because of the facts.  Death by a thousand cuts can contribute to victory.  If 3 days from now no better points than  "African" in the race space exist than the BC issue is truely dead.  Time will tell.

181 Ad hominems and slurs.
Posted by: Speller at April 27, 2011 07:07 PM (J74Py)

That's all that's left when dealing with people who are beyond evidence and logic.

I've been going at it for over 2 years with people here about this. I kept hearing, "Just show it to us!" Well, you got it and it's not good enough, so yeah, pointing and laughing is the order of the day.

I was right, you were crazy. I'm going to enjoy it.

182 tentative opinions that it's possible based on make-'em-up stuff

Yeah like...

Nurse: What is the Fathers race?
Stanley: African.
Nurse: Do you mean Negro?
Stanley: No I mean African.
Nurse: That is not a race.
Stanley: Well that's his race (Optional:" and if you put down negro I'm going to *legal threat here*")
Nurse: OK no need to get angry. And the Fathers origin is?


As long as a reasonable explanation exists guess what do we have legally? Nothing. A documentary anomaly that proves nothing, and legally requires Obama do nothing. He could say "I don't know" when asked why it says what it says, and it would still stand up in court, even if it was the only BC for a *decade* in either direction to use that term.

So I will go back to my original point which is still as good as gold. How does any further pursuit of this issue HELP US? how? How does it make a big WIN for our side. How how how???

183 >>>People vote Dem because of the way they feel, not because of the facts. Death by a thousand cuts can contribute to victory. No. That is where you are wrong. Not every charge is helpful. Some charges are transparently false and hurt those uttering it. It is not true that we can "hurt Obama" just by piling on silly charges. No one listens to those making silly charges. In fact, most people tend to assume the opposite of what those people say on all issues-- once credibility is lost, people treat such people as inverse barometers. If he says black, it must be white. I do this myself. I assume most people do. I tend to believe the things people say if the things told me in the past have been true; I tend to disbelieve people if what they've said has largely been false. It's life. Credibility is precious. If you're going kamikazee on this and don't care about that that's fine with me, but like I said, don't try to whipsaw those with a better understanding of how to beat Obama into endorsing an incredible conspiracy theory. (Both meanings of the word incredible intended.)

184 That's all that's left when dealing with people who are beyond evidence and logic. You want evidence? Download the thing yourself and look at it. It is cut and pasted, obviously so.

185 **

I don't see them on the Nordyke twins' documents either.

As for another version, there'd be the fancy one given to his mother. That would be where I would expect to see length, weight, and footprints. I don't know that the state would be interested in archiving those bits of information.

Posted by: Anachronda at April 27, 2011 07:04 PM (FzhYM)**

 

I was born in CA in the mid 60s.  I have my original given to my parents and a copy of that obtained from the county about twenty years ago.   The copy doesn't have my footprints but it does have all the typewritten information on the front side including birth weight, length and extensive info on my parents.  It's very complete and pretty much identical to the original (as in it's a photocopy of the original).

186

Well, you got it and it's not good enough

We just got it, Drew. 

No it isn't good enough, yet.  Maybe it will be in a few days, but not right away.  Next time you say Obama is lieing I'm gonna say,  "What's your problem Drew, I thought you took everything Obama said at face value, did your tinfoil hat slip?"

187 Posted by: jmol at April 27, 2011 07:18 PM (7YKsD)

Oh, well a guy on the internetz says so so it must be true.

Obviously.

You guys are like the rightwing version of Dan Rather.

188 And I didn't mean me in that last post, I mean politicians.

189

It is not true that we can "hurt Obama" just by piling on silly charges.

There you go with the strawman again.  People like me have been asking for that BC for years.  Just that one request.  Piling on silly charges you say?  What's wrong with asking for that BC?  Where is your credibility?

190 Posted by: Speller at April 27, 2011 07:19 PM (J74Py)

If I say Obama is lying, I'll demonstrate how.

In the meantime, can you give me an ETA on when your in depth forensic investigation will be wrapped up? Are we talking hours? Days? Weeks? Never?

191 >>>You want evidence? Download the thing yourself and look at it. It is cut and pasted, obviously so. Obviously. By the way, the original birth certificate, the short-form COLB, was also "obviously" a forgery two years ago. People on the internet told me so. They identified themselves as "document authentication experts" and told me the COLB lacked a signature (it was on the back, where it's supposed to be), a stamp (ditto), and a watermark (no, it was there, and you could see it and everything). They also said it lacked a serial number (it had one), or that the number was all wrong and out of sequence (it wasn't), and that it shouldn't have taken the newspapers two full days to report the birth if it was a real birth (um, wrong: All the babies born on obama's birthday had their notices printed then). One thing after another. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Never an apology. Just full-steam ahead on to the next series of made-up bullshit. Gee, wonder why I'm getting sick of the same people telling me the exact same things are "obviously" signs of forgery.

192 Give me an ETA on when the next "Birther" thread is going to be posted here.  We'll see what shakes out between then and now.

193

Posted by: ace at April 27, 2011 07:07 PM (nj1bB)

 

Ace, I didn't say I believed it was a forgery.  All I said is I had doubts due to mainly the entry concerning the name of the hospital.  I would like to see an honest analysis on it's authenticity.  That's it. 

As I said upthread, I don't trust this regime with anything that it does or says.  I am still in wonderment that so many of you are willing to accept this regime's word at face value, when it's been shown time and time again that most everything they do is deception.

 

 

194 >>>People like me have been asking for that BC for years. Just that one request. To what effect? That's not true, that you had just that one request. Because we all knew that on the day it was released you'd immediately cry forgery. This was being claimed minutes after the thing's released. So in what sense were you really asking for that one thing? It turns out now you want another birth certificate, regarding this "African" racial designation (a designation that has been there all along, on the COLB, which never was a big thing before, but now, when desperate, suddenly becomes a new Major Proof of forgery). Mug's game. Pointless. You can't reason with someone determined to be unreasonable.

195 Posted by: Speller at April 27, 2011 07:27 PM (J74Py)

My guess is there won't be any birther threads anytime soon...why waste time on a bunch of discredited crap like this?

196 198 All I said is I had doubts due to mainly the entry concerning the name of the hospital. I would like to see an honest analysis on it's authenticity. That's it.
___________

The copies Nordyke twins' birth certificates, date-stamped 1966, give the same name for the hospital.

197 Answer, it can't.  Yesterday over 62% believed it hurt Obama.

That was yesterday. The year prior it was measurably hurting us.

Perhaps you should review the 9 AD Battle Between Quinctilius Varus and the Germanic Tribes. Ne Cras Just because you win today, does not mean you will win tomorrow, even fighting the same enemy, on the same ground. Battle positions change. Yesterday, we had an reasonable outstanding request the President had failed to honor on in almost 3 years. We also had a very notable personality giving our side an edge of credibility it had not enjoyed on that topic over the previous year. Those things tipped the scales from a measurable political loser, to a marginal political winner.

That was yesterday. Today all of that is gone. You can't ignore that.

The instant this became a political winner for us, O released the BC to defuse the situation. It is back to being a far fetched conspiracy with no credible backing that will be a political loser for us: That even if 100% correct, will accomplish nothing for us and only hurt us right when we need to be getting stronger politically.

198 Posted by: Soona at April 27, 2011 07:28 PM (Qagwz)

Of course you don't get it.

No one is taking Obama's word. We're taking the documents, the contemporary evidence and the recollections of people who were actually there in their totality to reach a conclusion.

You guys on the other hand have....what exactly do you have again? Oh right...QUESTIONS! You have questions. Just like the insane Truthers we all love mocking for their inability to accept reality.

199 Anachondra is writing stuff that you really should be paying attention to instead of dismissing as "obviously" part of the conspiracy. The Nordyke twins were born at the same time, right? So how about checking that record to see if your hunches and new premises stand scrutiny before tossing out an any-two-will-do drunkard's bet? Do you guys ever read the debunking material or do you wall that off? And is the next premise going to be that the Nordyke twins' BC was falsified, too? WHERE DOES THE RATHOLE END?

200 The Nordyke twins were born at the same time, right? So how about checking that record to see if your hunches and new premises stand scrutiny before tossing out an any-two-will-do drunkard's bet?
Posted by: ace at April 27, 2011 07:35 PM (nj1bB)

Dude!

Obviously the regime forgers used that as a template. Of course it matches.

You're so naive.

201 Mike the Moose is arguing this better. There is no convincing here. Once people buy deep into a conspiracy theory there's no convincing, because they've self-segregated into a mutually-reinforcing subculture and have an awful lot of self-validation riding on the prospect of final vindication. Fine. I get it. But Mike the Moose is right. There's no winning for you. You can tilt at windmills if you want, but understand why, after today, this will no longer be a topic of discussion for anyone else.

202

It turns out now you want another birth certificate, regarding this "African" racial designation (a designation that has been there all along, on the COLB, which never was a big thing before, but now, when desperate, suddenly becomes a new Major Proof of forgery). ace 

I've always said that was an important error on the 1st COLB.

My guess is there won't be any birther threads anytime soon...why waste time on a bunch of discredited crap like this?
DrewM.

Indeed.  Well you won't have to worry about when people are done scrutinizing the purported LFBC then.

203 you know how we often say the way to get to obama is to expose him to ridicule, because no one can recover from ridicule...? Anyone pushing this is in the ripe-for-ridicule category, especially after today. No serious politician with a real chance of unseating Obama is going to make himself ridiculous in order to vindicate a dubious theory that has no chance of ever being "successful" in the sense of being proven or turning Obama out of office.

204 Oh one more thing. The reason I said this was mostly harmless before was that the birth-certificate people always had a reasonable question: "Well, why doesn't he just release the birth certificate?" As long as they had that, well, people could look at this and say, "Well, why DOESN'T he release it then?" That's gone now. He did release it. That effective, damage-mitigating rejoinder no longer exists. Now anyone pushing this does not have the cover of that reasonable question. They will be evaluated on their reasonability and rationality alone.

205 PISS UP A ROPE

206 You guys on the other hand have....what exactly do you have again? Oh right...QUESTIONS! You have questions. Just like the insane Truthers we all love mocking for their inability to accept reality.

Posted by: DrewM. at April 27, 2011 07:33 PM (y07gN)

 

You've mistaken what I wrote in my comment.  When I said I don't trust this regime with anything, I mean anything.  They lie and deceive and everyone who are positively connected to it lie and deceive also.

Plus, I've never hung my 2012 election hopes on the BC questions anyway.  It was, however compelling, always a loss-leader for me.  There's so much more we can hang on this POS president. 

207 It ends with either them or us 6 feet under. Right now I don't see us getting out of this with anything short of civil war. We play by the rules. They make them up as they go along. Obummer played the birther card. It's a dead end now. We *know* he's a phoney. Attacking his phoneyness is not a worthy target. It's wasted energy fighting amongst ourselves. Divide and conquer...oldest tactic in the book.

208 No serious politician with a real chance of unseating Obama is going to make himself ridiculous in order to vindicate a dubious theory that has no chance of ever being "successful" in the sense of being proven or turning Obama out of office.

Posted by: ace

Given the last election and McCain as a candidate who could have used a dozen different sticks to beat Obama with and the gutlessness of Republican politicians in general, it isn't likely that any of them would bring up anything from Obama's past including friendships with terrorists.

Thinking that any GOP candidate was ever going to use this issue wasn't ever in the cards.  Which similar issues did Kerry or Gore use against Bush?  But still the character assassination took a toll, there is no doubt.

209 207 I've always said that was an important error on the 1st COLB.
_____________

Bear in mind that you're to the point where that is all you have.

The Nordyke twins' documents have been held out all along as the gold standard: "we just want to see this". The white house has now provided something that matches them in every way except for the square that says "African".

You are asking folks to believe that the CIA/NSA/Mossad/whoever could create a document that is absolutely perfect except for that one thing.

I saw somewhere, but cannot find a link to it, a quote of the document person in Hawaii saying "I helped make the photocopy. What they're showing at the white house is what I copied."

I'm not concerned about the layering. I don't know if you've noticed it, but software has gotten quite clever recently. I would not be surprised to get a layered document out of a scan. Over at NRO, one of the Corner authors scanned one of the magazine covers and got a layered document.

There is, as far as I can tell, nothing else to be answered.

210 "software has gotten quite clever recently" Nothing to see here. Move along.

211 211 When I said I don't trust this regime with anything, I mean anything. They lie and deceive and everyone who are positively connected to it lie and deceive also.
__________

In that case, there will never be a birth certificate you will accept. Any birth certificate could be a forgery given a suitably large conspiracy.

212 >>>hinking that any GOP candidate was ever going to use this issue wasn't ever in the cards. Well, okay, if it's just going to be your own private theory, then. >>> Which similar issues did Kerry or Gore use against Bush? But still the character assassination took a toll, there is no doubt. Well, let's look at RatherGate. Once the memos were exposed as fake, then anyone still pushing those memos would have looked quite the partisan, gullible (or dishonest) fool, wouldn't he have? We chide the left for being the community-based reality, where the subculture of partisans decides what reality is. Let's not go there ourselves.

213

As long as they had that, well, people could look at this and say, "Well, why DOESN'T he release it then?"
That's gone now. He did release it.  ace

That is yet to be determined.
Yes, we are going at it from a position of distrust, a position of skepticism, a position that starts from the premise that it's a fake.
And why shouldn't we considering he said that he hadn't released it because there was something embarassing on it.(there isn't)
Obama said he wasn't sure who his father was.(this document says Barack Hussein Obama quite clearly)

Given the lies and obfuscation, approaching it as a fake is reasonable.

214 Poor Old Broken Down Dan Rather had to leave the network and go to some cable station because he won't give up his delusion.

215 >>>That is yet to be determined. And it has yet to be determined if the Kilian memos were forgeries. Someone who is determined to believe can always do so.

216 And it has yet to be determined if the Kilian memos were forgeries authentic. FTFY

Otherwise you are just looking at a compressed digital image of a scan of a printout of copy of a microfiche print.

217 Yes, we are going at it from a position of distrust, a position of skepticism, a position that starts from the premise that it's a fake.

You expose your bias against reason.
You see though a court goes from the assumption that it is true, and then reviews conclusive objective evidence that it is not.
Reasonable people go from the premise it is true and will only listen to hard proof that it is not.

Anything less gets you nothing politically, and nothing legally. I said it was a waste of time a year ago because one of two things had to be true.
1. The BC did exist. or
2. The BC would be forged.

and no matter which one was true we weren't going to get anything out of it.

Now here we are a year later and either
1. The BC exists, or
2. The BC is forged.

 And we sit in the same spot we did a year ago, a topic that is a political loser that we can make no legal ground with.

Let me put it a different way. Obama said two and a half years ago, the reason he would not release his BC was not that we were unreasonable and nothing would satisfy us. The media calls us unreasonable extremists 24/7. The 1.5% of the people we need to vote against Obama who voted for him last time will not see our further pursuit of this topic as balanced and reasonable. Because they don't believe a predisposition to forgery perpetrated by the POTUS is a balanced an reasonable position to have.  And you know what they are right. Regardless how much POTUS may lie, approaching a topic from the premise he is lying, with no evidence, is unreasonable. They (1.5%) will see it as extreme and unreasonable. That will make us extreme and unreasonable, and everything else we try to argue during the campaign extreme and unreasonable by extension.

218 You see the year on that BC? Turn the document upside down. That's right, go ahead. Now look at the year again. It's exactly the same.

Q. E. D.

219

I'm glad CNN got pegged at 100%.  That American Morning program is the left wing version of Fox and Friends.  I haven't seen it covered in blogville but there was a great exchange the other day with Trump.  The Donald tells CNN he doesn't want to talk the Birther stuff and the male host says 'okay, I'll make sure nobody at CNN ever asks you about this again, will you drop it then', and before Trump can even answer one of the two bimbos on the show jumps in with 'so you said earlier that you were going to be getting new information from your friends in Hawaii, when will that happen'.  The Donald jumped all over them, giving the hosts the full Apprentice treatment.

The best part about that dishonest network - they're so blatant.  Later in the same show they replayed the clip.  Guess where they cut the clip?  Yup.  Right before the bimbo violated the CNN 'ban' her co-host had offered just a single second previously. 

 

220 Just heard Obama released his birth certificate. Hey, what's up with that? Anyone?