September 13, 2011
— Ace AP works overtime for Team Barack.
MICHELE BACHMANN: Obama "stole over $500 billion out of Medicare to switch it over to Obamacare. ... These are programs that need to be saved to serve people, and in their current form, they can't."ROMNEY: "He cut Medicare by $500 billion. This is a Democrat president. The liberal, so to speak, cut Medicare. Not Republicans, the Democrat."
THE FACTS: "Stole" is a hyperbolic way to describe the kinds of shifts in budget priorities that happen every day in Washington. To pay for expanded insurance coverage, Obama's health care law cuts $500 billion in payments to the Medicare Advantage program, which a congressional agency said was being overpaid — and to hospitals and nursing homes. Nearly all House Republicans, including Bachmann, later voted for a GOP budget plan that retained the same cuts Obama had made.
Interesting point here -- on CNN, when a similar "fact-check" was done, the $500 billion was misstated -- repeatedly, and with text on a chart -- as $500 million.
CNN's own "fact-checkers" understated the problem by three orders of magnitude, claiming Obama had cut one one thousandth of what he'd actually cut.
So there's "fact-checking," right there.
As to the AP: They too pretend that "stole" is some sort of fact-checkable word. (CNN dwelled on this.)
The AP does not state which "congressional agency" said that Medicare Advantage was being overpaid. They cite this "agency" as if it's a nonpartisan, independent source, when in fact at the time Democrats controlled Congress. So they're citing a Democrat-controlled agency for the proposition that Democrats were right to cut half a trillion from Medicare Advantage.
Does anyone believe the AP would cite Daryl Issa's subcommittee as an authoritative source to check the facts in Fast and Furious?
Either way, this is true, and cannot be repeated enough: Obama stole, or "repurposed," or whatever euphemism you like, half a trillion dollars from senior health care to pay for ObamaCare.
But the Democrats are going to run on Mediscare, huh?
PERRY: The $814 billion economic stimulus program pushed by President Barack Obama "created zero jobs."THE FACTS: There is no support for that assertion. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said last year that the stimulus increased the number of people employed by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million as of mid-2010. It cut the unemployment rate between 0.7 and 1.8 percentage points, the CBO found.
Economists debate whether the stimulus lived up to its promise or was worth the cost, but no one seriously argues that it created no jobs. Many believe it helped to end the recession even while falling short of its employment goals.
There is plenty of support for this assertion: Fewer Americans are employed today than when Obama took office in 2009. Right there, that seems to strongly support the idea that "zero" jobs were created, and in fact, suggests that jobs were destroyed.
Look at the exact word Perry used -- "created." Perry is talking about jobs created.
Is that what the AP is talking about?
No. The AP obscures this by avoiding the phrase "saved or created," but when they write "increased the number of people employed" they are deliberately avoiding what they mean -- "saved or created." It is the "saved or created" estimates that yield that fanciful 1.4-3.3 million figure.
Quick question, AP: How does Obama's "saved or created" figure stack up with Bush's? Or Clinton's? Or the first Bush's?
Trick question, of course, as there are no "saved or created" figures for those Presidents. The "saved or created" figure was invented by Obama, and thusfar has been applied to exactly one president.
When they speak of Bush only creating one million net jobs through his presidency, note they do not add in the number of jobs he might have also "saved."
This is critical, because all previous presidents were held to account by strict, simple arithmetic: Number of jobs existing at the end of your term minus number of jobs existing at the beginning of your term equals your net job creation (or loss).
It is only President Precious who added in the "or saved" figure, and this can only be estimated, and of course we employ liberal economists' formulas for guessing how government spending translates to job "saving" for this.
Obama has lost jobs while President. Period. That is the only statistic that has ever before mattered, net jobs created or lost. There is no third category of "saved," and even if there were, one would have to calculate previous presidents' "saved or created" numbers (much more generous!) to find an apples-to-apples comparison.
Instead, the AP and Obama and the rest of the media insist on this apples-to-orange comparison.
Note how dishonest they are -- if they wrote "saved or created" in their "fact-check," it would be immediately clear that they were shifting the terms of comparison from Perry's correct, historically-justified "created" terminology, to Obama's invented, obscuring, overly-generous "saved or created" figure.
So instead of alerting the reader that the terms of comparison are being shifted, they re-write "saved or created" to "increased employment."
This is a lie. By the standard jobs now minus jobs originally figure that all other presidents have suffered by (or even profited by), Obama is a net-jobs loser, a net-jobs destroyer.
By the conventional way of figuring this, Perry is wrong. Obama did not create "zero" jobs; he created negative million and a half jobs, or whatever the current grim figure is.
In fact, since so much comparison is made of Perry's job creation vs. Obama's -- if we're discussing Obama's saved or created jobs, then to have an apples-to-apples comparison we must stop talking about the jobs Perry merely created (something like 450,000 over the past two years) and add to that figure the jobs he also "saved."
For surely he, like Obama, must have "saved" some. In an ailing economy, many restaurants would go under, and many construction workers would be laid off; surely the 450,000 jobs actually added "saved" a great many more jobs that otherwise would have been lost!
So why does the media never think to calculate Perry's "saved or created" figure? Why does Perry get the hard standard -- a simple subtraction of jobs we know exist now, minus jobs that existed two years ago; a perfectly factual determination -- whereas Obama gets to add in this guestimation fudge-factor of jobs he imagines he may have had a role in not losing?
Why don't other politicians get this easy-peasy fudge factor? Romney had a not-so-good-jobs creation record as governor of Massachusetts; but what would his saved or created record be?
Better, of course; it has to be.
If Obama can "save" 1.4 to 3.3 million jobs while actually losing 2.5 million jobs, think how many more Romney "saved" while creating 100,000, or how very many Perry "saved" while creating 450,000 over just two years!
And yet, no one thinks to do these calculations at AP or CNN. One special soft-bigotry-of-low-expectations standard for Obama; a much tougher standard -- the normal, conventional one used for every other office holder in American history -- for everyone else.
And yet, even by this standard -- Obama's awful.
Posted by: Ace at
06:45 AM
| Comments (170)
Post contains 1210 words, total size 8 kb.
Joe Scarborough and Mike Bloomberg for president and veep? Yeah, that's the ticket—according to New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman, who floated the idea during his Morning Joe appearance today.
Friedman foresaw Scarborough-Bloomberg running on a platform of Simpson-Bowles on the economy, an "investment agenda" [infrastructure spending], and getting out of Afghanistan ASAP. "I would bet any amount of money," forecast Friedman, that such a ticket would immediately have a "significant, significant" position.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 06:53 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: Bill Shakespeare at September 13, 2011 06:53 AM (3ll0O)
Break out the party hats and the noise makers! SCOAMF sets yet another record! MFM all over it! Will be in the headlines literally for seconds!
Whoot! Whoot!
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 06:53 AM (jx2j9)
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 06:55 AM (jx2j9)
For you morons, that's non-moron for Obama's a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.
Ace is obviously tidying up a bit.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 06:58 AM (jx2j9)
Posted by: Mr Pink (not in a good mood today) at September 13, 2011 06:59 AM (7rRUb)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 13, 2011 06:59 AM (0yt4x)
Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 07:00 AM (GXgac)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 13, 2011 10:59 AM (0yt4x)
Jeebus. *runs out to buy case of popcorn and gallon of Valu-Rite*
Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 07:01 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: That Oppossum He's Talking About at September 13, 2011 07:01 AM (71LDo)
Posted by: Mr Pink (not in a good mood today) at September 13, 2011 07:03 AM (7rRUb)
They just keep moving the goal posts for him, don't they?
"Economists debate whether the stimulus lived up to its promise or was worth the cost, but no one seriously argues that it created no jobs. Many believe it helped to end the recession even while falling short of its employment goals."
I love when the media does this. No one seriously would argue _______. Therefore anyone who does in by definition unserious.
Actually, guess what dickwads, people would argue it. People do argue it. Even economists who graduate from Duke with Higest honors would argue it. Just as Norah O'Donnell
Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 07:03 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 07:04 AM (wuv1c)
Posted by: MrScribbler at September 13, 2011 07:06 AM (YjjrR)
Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 07:06 AM (0M3AQ)
Awesome! More good news! CanÂ’t keep the MFM from saturating the headlines! 22% of children now living in poverty as oceans recede and planet heals!
My horn broke.
Turns out those folks we had been waiting for – suck.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 07:07 AM (jx2j9)
Posted by: Mr Pink (not in a good mood today) at September 13, 2011 07:07 AM (7rRUb)
I see from the morning talk shows, she has chosen the HPV vaccination hill to die on.
Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 13, 2011 07:08 AM (pY3GI)
What really annoying is that these saved jobs were predominantly, economy overhead jobs, aka, otherwise known as government jobs. These are the jobs that, on average, pay, what, 70% more in compensation than their private market counterparts that make the money needed to pay them.
Now we're saddled with coming up with a way to pay that debt back.
Posted by: Dusty at September 13, 2011 07:08 AM (h4S7u)
Give Perry credit for "saving" the job of every person currently employed in Texas. And he has actually been facing an organization (the Obama administration) which is actively trying to destroy jobs in Texas.
Posted by: Have Blue at September 13, 2011 07:09 AM (IKTC8)
Dude, by the AP's standards I've saved or created like 115 pounds over the last 20 years. Go me!
Can we send some of Russ's possums to the AP?
Posted by: alexthechick at September 13, 2011 07:09 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: IreneFingIrene at September 13, 2011 07:09 AM (JNqU9)
You mean, like ...all of them, Bill?
Posted by: Frank Bacon at September 13, 2011 07:10 AM (3Okgs)
Posted by: Minnie Rodent at September 13, 2011 07:10 AM (S3rrR)
Fortunately my candidate of choice will capture the nomination, and get my vote in the general.
ABO
Anybody but Obama.
I am at peace.
Posted by: trainer at September 13, 2011 07:10 AM (Rojyk)
And now to read the post and comments.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 13, 2011 07:10 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 07:10 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 07:10 AM (UOM48)
Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 07:10 AM (brQV4)
Posted by: Alex #11 at September 13, 2011 07:11 AM (xrI/G)
Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 07:11 AM (wuv1c)
I want a Sarah Palin post based on Ace's Twitter beatdown last night.
Oh Jesus fuck no. No. A trillion billion zillion times no. I am fighting the urge to slap everyone today. I don't want to expand that urge to the people who live in the computer.
Posted by: alexthechick at September 13, 2011 07:11 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 13, 2011 07:12 AM (vzFJV)
Give Perry credit for "saving" the job of every person currently employed in Texas. And he has actually been facing an organization (the Obama administration) which is actively trying to destroy jobs in Texas.
Posted by: Have Blue at September 13, 2011 11:09 AM (IKTC
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 07:12 AM (jx2j9)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 07:12 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: Jimmah at September 13, 2011 07:13 AM (F13r2)
Posted by: BlackOrchid at September 13, 2011 07:13 AM (SB0V2)
Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 07:13 AM (brQV4)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 13, 2011 11:12 AM (vzFJV)
Or at least didn't have all those pesky rashes.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 07:14 AM (jx2j9)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 13, 2011 07:14 AM (eOXTH)
Whoaaaa, there pardner. Let's not go jumping to conclusions quite so fast.
Posted by: pep at September 13, 2011 07:15 AM (3ll0O)
You know you can trust an estimate with a spread like that.
Posted by: Waterhouse at September 13, 2011 07:15 AM (3p99J)
Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 07:15 AM (brQV4)
Posted by: PALINISTO! at September 13, 2011 07:15 AM (r1ARs)
No, because everyone knows it's complete BS. Everyone knows the UE rate is going to creep up or stay stagnant, and that the only reason it's not going higher is that we quit tracking people after a while.
Now is the time to keep hitting this, and Ace is right: By any "precedented" metric (as opposed to the unprecedented ones BHO gets to use), Barack Obama, who is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure, is a job destroyer.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 13, 2011 07:15 AM (8y9MW)
And with that verbal upchuck, I'm done on that particular topic.
Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 07:16 AM (pLTLS)
"The president has a package; the package works together. We need to do many things to get this economy moving," Axelrod said.
They are targeting the gay vote folks!
Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 07:16 AM (0M3AQ)
Alex, you know I was a big fan. You know I backed her all of last year hard. She lost my wallet last night.
I graduated high school a few decades ago.
Posted by: sven10077 at September 13, 2011 07:16 AM (AEIYh)
Posted by: BlackOrchid at September 13, 2011 07:17 AM (SB0V2)
Posted by: Minnie Rodent at September 13, 2011 07:18 AM (S3rrR)
Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 07:18 AM (0M3AQ)
Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 11:18 AM (0M3AQ)
Check out my post #2. And grab an alcoholic beverage (it's early, but still).
Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 07:19 AM (UOM48)
And what did your research tell you?
See, what you have there is a leading question, along the lines of "So when did you stop beating your wife?" If you're trying to be objective, you then owe it to yourself (and the rest of us, incidentally) to tell us the results of your investigation into that question.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 13, 2011 07:20 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 13, 2011 07:21 AM (eOXTH)
From now on, whenever the HPV thing is brought up at the debate, Perry needs to say "Opt out, look it up. Now, can we move on to the more pressing issues we are facing?"
Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 13, 2011 07:21 AM (pY3GI)
Perry needs to put out some Facts about the population explosion that has been going on in Texas, and how that has impacted......everything.
I suspect that that had something to do with the number of government jobs created, that Ron Paul pointed out last night.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 07:22 AM (mwfMy)
Here's a fact for you:
Amid a still struggling economy, more Americans fell below the poverty line last year, according to new census data released Tuesday.
The nation's poverty rate rose to 15.1% in 2010, its highest level since 1993. About 46.2 million people are considered in need.
As for middle-class American families, income fell in 2010. The median household income was $49,445, down slightly from $49,777 the year before.
I'm sure it's all Bush's or the Tea Party's fault
Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 13, 2011 07:23 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: Bill Shakespeare at September 13, 2011 10:53 AM (3ll0O)
Like... Romeo and Ethel the Pirates Daughter? Really have to think about that one a bit...
Posted by: Christipher Marlowe at September 13, 2011 07:23 AM (NtXW4)
Nah they'll bleed off from bambi at this point.
It'll be like Anderson at this point.
Scarborough is not a GOP draw he has burnt his cred and Blooms is a DieB(Democrat in everything But name-pronounced dweeb)....
it'll give moderates and the crossover GOP squishes somewhere to run to besides Bambi....
Bloomy will actually increase GOP turnout
Posted by: sven10077 at September 13, 2011 07:23 AM (AEIYh)
New York dems plagerizing Monty Python yet again by pulling wagons loaded with absentee ballots throughout Dist. 9 neighborhoods blaring, “Bring out your dead!”
CanÂ’t imagine why.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 07:23 AM (jx2j9)
Posted by: Michele Bachmann at September 13, 2011 07:23 AM (r1ARs)
Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 07:24 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 07:25 AM (Mo+zF)
You know you can trust an estimate with a spread like that.
Posted by: Waterhouse at September 13, 2011 11:15 AM (3p99J)
Yeah... thats just a WAG... a Wild Ass Guess...
vice a SWAG... a SCIENTIFIC Wild Ass Guess...
Posted by: Romeo13 at September 13, 2011 07:26 AM (NtXW4)
Posted by: nevergiveup at September 13, 2011 07:26 AM (i6RpT)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 07:27 AM (UOM48)
I agree. The damage the dunderhead duo is doing is not to Perry nut their own ability to enact reforms. That is bad enough.
Posted by: sven10077 at September 13, 2011 07:27 AM (AEIYh)
Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 13, 2011 07:28 AM (eOXTH)
Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 07:28 AM (brQV4)
Posted by: richard mcenroe at September 13, 2011 07:28 AM (wPpnq)
Posted by: chillin the most for Perry at September 13, 2011 07:29 AM (6IV8T)
I've been reading this blog for years, and I have to say, Ace, this post is easily top 5. Well done!
Posted by: Dax at September 13, 2011 07:29 AM (GRJTc)
Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 07:29 AM (iYbLN)
Turns out that the whole ‘rule of law’ thingy is just a little too cumbersome in Wisconsin anymore. It’s more of a guideline than a rule anyway. Right?
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 07:30 AM (jx2j9)
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 11:25 AM (Mo+zF)
Announces what? That she's out of ammo?
Posted by: Skylined Caribou at September 13, 2011 07:31 AM (PU8wf)
Great, Michelle Bachmann is now claiming Gardisil makes people retarded.
Fantastic
Posted by: BenSo when did Bachmann get vaccinated? That's the only explanation of her retarded appearance last night. Gawd, could she have screeched any louder??
Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 07:31 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: karenm at September 13, 2011 07:31 AM (Xnxty)
I've been reading this blog for years, and I have to say, Ace, this post is easily top 5. Well done!
DAX, can you identify the other four? Inquiring minds and all.
Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 07:31 AM (0M3AQ)
Posted by: karenm at September 13, 2011 07:31 AM (Xnxty)
Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 07:32 AM (brQV4)
DAX, can you identify the other four? Inquiring minds and all.
Posted by: Sub-TardThe epic movie reviews.
Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 07:32 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: chillin the most for Perry at September 13, 2011 11:29 AM (6IV8T)
I doubt it. Most people wont be paying attention till christmas I reckon. Garnering 15% in national polls with the meme she is not running is kind of a lot. Bachmann never pulled that off.
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 07:32 AM (Mo+zF)
The things that the other candidates are piling on Perry for......are things that the Dems wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, because they make Perry look good to swing voters and conservative Dems.
I am now including Sarah Pile-on in that category of 'other candidates'......so let the vetting begin of her true conservative principles.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 07:32 AM (mwfMy)
And for the record--I posted her a couple months ago that Bachman was crazy.
Seems to be a common affliction among evangelicals.
I have no idea why that is.
Posted by: Lisa Simpson at September 13, 2011 07:33 AM (sbV1u)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 07:33 AM (TMB3S)
Great, Michelle Bachmann is now claiming Gardisil makes people retarded.
Fantastic
Does that explain Michelle Bachmann's current bout of madness? Why did she choose this hill to politically die on?
I swear there is some form of communicable madness making its rounds amongst certain commentators *Michelle Malkin, cough!* and people such as Michelle Bachmann.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at September 13, 2011 07:33 AM (9hSKh)
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 07:34 AM (Mo+zF)
Posted by: nevergiveup at September 13, 2011 07:34 AM (i6RpT)
My crazy theory about DNC sabotage-microchips implanted in Republicans isn't so crazy any more, is it?
Posted by: Soothsayer at September 13, 2011 07:34 AM (G/zuv)
Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 07:35 AM (iYbLN)
Feinstein's campaign, which had a cash balance of $5 million on June 30, believes it suffered losses but does not know how extensive they were
I'm sure her treasurer will point out that "it's for the children."
Posted by: Sean Bannion at September 13, 2011 07:35 AM (sbV1u)
When is anybody going to be mad at Rick Perry for being woefully unprepared two debates in a row for obvious attack tactics?
The line about being offended that someone could buy me for $5k? If you say that the first thought in your head when you heard that lame-ass response wasn't, "Well, how much does it take?" you're lying.
I thought of Churchill's supposed comment about, "we've established what kind of woman you are, now we're merely negotiating price."
And the illegal immigration line about "the sound of your last name?" So, all folks in favor of reasonable immigration policy are now racists against Hispanics? This guy is the conservative choice? Really?
Ace may be all butt-hurt about SP on his twitter feed all he wants but that's nothing more than defensive lashing out that his boy yet again fucked up on the national stage.
There are serious questions about this guy. Bachmann may be approaching Jenny McCarthy territory but the Gardisil thing is a proxy for deep questions about how Perry makes decisions.
Unless and until Perry comes up with some good answers about how he thinks and makes decisions this crap is only going to get worse. He did not do anywhere near what he had to do last night.
He only reinforced the bad impression he made last week. Not ready for prime time.
Posted by: trumpetdaddy at September 13, 2011 07:36 AM (dcoFe)
I doubt it. Most people wont be paying attention till christmas I reckon. Garnering 15% in national polls with the meme she is not running is kind of a lot. Bachmann never pulled that off.
Give it up.
You are in college, now. Go chase some tail.
Posted by: garrett at September 13, 2011 07:36 AM (PU8wf)
Posted by: Dax at September 13, 2011 07:36 AM (GRJTc)
Our final jeopardy question is:
Which country in the western hemisphere has a more modern air force than the U.S.?
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 07:40 AM (jx2j9)
It takes a big person (Perry) to admit they made a mistake especially on the national stage. The proof is when you've learned from the mistake. I believe Perry is sincere and learned from his mistake. This is in direct contrast to what we are up against with Obama. Someone who has made a shitload of mistakes but never learns from them. He just continues to double down. The constant screeching about the vaccine issue by Bachmann is someone who is obsessed by a single issue and is unwilling to LISTEN. I like her but no more...let. it. go.
Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 07:43 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: Alex #11 at September 13, 2011 07:45 AM (xrI/G)
Posted by: mikeyboss at September 13, 2011 07:45 AM (MX5qJ)
I agree. This would have been a big issue if the Dems had it to attack him with. By getting it out and cleared up now, he can toss it off as having already been addressed if Obama's team tries to use it against him.
And Bachmann is making it even easier for him, by getting so loudly stupid about it.
Simple anwser for Perry: "I was wrong. I fixed it."
Not something the SCOAMFOTUS will be able to say, after doubling down on stimulus programs.
Posted by: wiserbud at September 13, 2011 07:45 AM (3Okgs)
@112
I think that the only real objectional part to the Gardasil flap was the use of the EO instead of the legislature.
Mandating a vaccine at the state level is pretty kosher. Everyone's mad at Bachmann because she didn't attack Perry on the use of the EO, but rather chose to attack vaccinations and then claimed that she met a sobbing mom who said it caused retardation (Bachman: Rick Perry caused a liitle girl to be a retard by making her take a sex vaccine (Santorum: And it made her a skank!))
Its venturing into crazyland. Perry needs to answer for his methods, which to some degree he has done by saying he f'd up. Contrast that with Romney who still defends Romneycare.
Posted by: Jollyroger at September 13, 2011 07:45 AM (NCw5u)
_________
Ain't read your link, but I wasn't aware that Russia had any stealth jets beyond a couple of T-50 prototypes.
Posted by: Anachronda at September 13, 2011 07:46 AM (FzhYM)
Posted by: Michelle Obama's Landing Strip at September 13, 2011 07:46 AM (PU8wf)
Posted by: Minnie Rodent at September 13, 2011 07:47 AM (S3rrR)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 07:47 AM (TMB3S)
Now that's some bullshit. The entire Gardisil controversy was based on media led 'hysteria' about cancer of the penis. At that time, a huge number of people were concerned about protecting young women based on the focus that disease was garnering at the time. The media and many advocacy groups portrayed it, rightly or wrongly, as an epidemic that was going to sweep through America's population of women like a firestorm. Then, the decision to impose the vaccine on women was much less controversial than it is now. Had the hype been true, Perry would now look like a genius.
Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 07:49 AM (jx2j9)
Posted by: Alex #11 at September 13, 2011 07:49 AM (xrI/G)
Posted by: BlackOrchid at September 13, 2011 07:50 AM (SB0V2)
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 11:34 AM (Mo+zF)
That would be Sarah Palin.
You have your shrill female Representative mixed up with your shrill quitter.
FWIW - At least Bachmann pieced together the Obamacare Rally and the sponsored the day on the hill to go with it.
Posted by: garrett at September 13, 2011 07:51 AM (PU8wf)
Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 13, 2011 07:52 AM (PCEZn)
124........Did he say this about his policy on illegal immigration?
_________
So JackStraw, which candidate would do better on the issue of illegal immigration? Even Sarah Pile-on is more of a squish than Perry on this issue, if you can even get her to talk about it.
Perry is to the right of Ronald Reagan on illegal immigration, because he is against Amnesty..... Reagan gave blanket Amnesty to over 3,000,000 illegals in 1986.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 07:53 AM (mwfMy)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 07:53 AM (TMB3S)
I dunno. But right now, I have bigger concerns.
And the fact he did back down on his Gardisil EO shows that he can be reasoned with, which is refreshing.
Has Romney apologized for RomneyCare?
Posted by: wiserbud at September 13, 2011 07:55 AM (3Okgs)
This is why the mainstream media is dying. Average people -- like me, the Regular Guy -- can go directly to the Bureau of Labor Statistics and do our own analysis and fact-checking. Here's what I found:
In his first term, from January 1981 through November 1984, Reagan "created" more than 6,000,000 new jobs. He was reelected in a landslide.
In his first term, from January 1989 through November 1992, George Herbert Walker Bush "created" only 2,168,000 jobs. He was defeated for re-election.
In his first term, from January 1993 through November 1996, Bill Clinton "created" a wopping 8,696,000 new jobs. He too, like Reagan, won re-election in landslide.
In his first term, from January 2001 through November 2004, George W. Bush "created" only 1,954,000 new jobs, but he was dealing with the consequences of 9/11 and the Iraq War, and he had put into place policies that would enable the economy to add more than 5,000,000 new jobs in his second term, so he narrowly won re-election.
But, in his first term, from January 2009 through August 2011 so far, Barack Obama has (what's the opposite of "created") "destroyed" 2,574,000 jobs according to the BLS, with the employment level in America decreasing from 142,201,000 to 139,627. Even to have a jobs record as good as the worst President of the past thirty years (on employment anyway), George W. Bush, he would have to "create" something on the order of 4.6 million jobs over the next 14 months, or around 330,000 jobs a month, every month, which would be a rip-roaring, Reaganesque recovery. But, unlike Reagan or Clinton or even Bush, Obama's policies are a substantial drag on job-creation.
If Americans re-elect a President with this historically bad of a record on jobs, we deserve a Mark Steyn-size helping of doom.
Posted by: The Regular Guy at September 13, 2011 07:55 AM (qHCyt)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 07:56 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: Alex #11 at September 13, 2011 07:57 AM (xrI/G)
Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 13, 2011 07:58 AM (PCEZn)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 07:58 AM (TMB3S)
You mean, as much slack as Romney is getting from the Country Club Conservatives for his obvious weaknesses and missteps?
Perhaps it's because we will not let the perfect be the enemy of the good and we realize that there is more good than bad here.
Posted by: wiserbud at September 13, 2011 07:59 AM (3Okgs)
134 >>So JackStraw, which candidate would do better on the issue of illegal immigration?
Ask Tom Tancredo. Or Sheriff Joe. A couple of squishes like me.
________
You're dodging the question, JackStraw.
Which candidate.....as in, running for president....would do better on the issue of illegal immigration, than Perry?
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 08:00 AM (mwfMy)
Thanks for proving my point. The grandfather of Obamacare refuses to admit his mistake. Good for him.
Posted by: wiserbud at September 13, 2011 08:01 AM (3Okgs)
Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 13, 2011 08:02 AM (PCEZn)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 08:05 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 13, 2011 08:07 AM (PCEZn)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 08:10 AM (TMB3S)
Consider the alternatives.
Look, I disagree with his decision to give children of illegals in-state tuition rates. So much so that I got into an argument at a town hall meeting with my governor over that exact same issue.
Unfortunately, we go into elections with the candidates we have, not the candidates we wish we had.
I'm not a rabid Perry supporter, but I sure as hell would need to take a shower after voting for Romney, whom I consider to be the epitome of a big-government Republican.
Maybe Perry's not the best our party can offer, but so far, I like him a lot better than the rest of the field.
And anything's better than what we have now.
Posted by: wiserbud at September 13, 2011 08:13 AM (3Okgs)
Ya know, I'm pretty sick of Palin at this point. After watching her on Greta last night I'm convinced she's running .... from the sidelines! How brilliant!!! Whoo-hoo, you go girl!!
When she jumped on the alleged (yes, that's right, Michelle Bachmann, ALLEGED - you're a lawyer, look it up) Gardasil/Merck money accusation and turned it into a marathon about herself and what she did as governor, her emails, blah, blah, blah, me, me, me, I, I, I, I, me, me, me, ad nauseum, that was it for me. It was offensive and petty to see her sink that low (she looked pretty stupid, like a pre-teen, spreading a rumor and relishing it). That was a defining moment, IMO. She is dead to me and deserves major pile-ons from this moment on.
And by the way, Mrs. Palin, you are not all that. I have no idea what you talk about on a day-to-day basis and I'm pretty sure YOU ARE NOT the cog in the political wheel, with candidates just waiting for your next brilliant talking-point proclamations.
Posted by: California Doomin at September 13, 2011 08:13 AM (8DdAv)
142.......When the amnesty bill was going through Congress and supported by the likes of McCain, Graham and Bush, people were enraged and calling Congress, protesting and doing whatever they could to get it stopped and were damn happy when it died.
______
I know. I was one of those people who was enraged and calling Congress. My senator, Senator Inhoffe, filabustered and poison pilled it.....and I was very proud of him.
The problem with saying that "Santorum, Romney and Bachmann are all better than Perry" is that they have never had to deal with it like Perry has.....so we don't know for sure that they would do any better.
And I am not convinced that Santorum, Romney or Bachmann have the charisma to energize enough people to drag themselves to the polling boothes and vote for them.....after the Obama media has shredded them in the months leading up to election day.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 08:14 AM (mwfMy)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 08:17 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 08:19 AM (mwfMy)
wiserbud what is your specific problem with MassCare or as you call it Romneycare?
Individual mandates. And that fact that it gave the state to define the minimum standards for insurance coverage, meaning you are forced to buy coverage that you may not want or need.
And no opt-out provisions.
Posted by: wiserbud at September 13, 2011 08:20 AM (3Okgs)
He is acting lazy about this campaign and it is obvious. If you guys can come up with good responses why the hell can't he? Or his super-smart Moneyball team?
He did nothing to take control of the narrative last night. All we're talking about is Bachmann and Gardasil, illegal immigration, and ho wmuch Ace is butt hurt by SP.
Again. AGAIN, Perry did not take control of his primary calling card and hammer Texas' jobs record and Obama's miserable economy. Again, Newt had to be the one to be the guy to focus the debate.
Again, he didn't lay a finger on Romney on Romneycare. Every debate that Romney keeps on keeping on about Romneycare is a debate Perry is losing.
Perry is failing at the main tasks he needs to accomplish in this debate round.
Simply staying standing is not the standard. That is Romney's tactic. Perry needs to be crushing it right now. He isn't going to get a second chance to make a first impression.
Posted by: trumpetdaddy at September 13, 2011 08:22 AM (dcoFe)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 08:31 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 08:35 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: trumpetdaddy at September 13, 2011 12:22 PM (dcoFe)
If RomneyCare is unpopular with most voters, trying to get Mitt to abandon his support for it is stupid.
Skewering him with it five months before any primary is also stupid.
Posted by: Oldcat at September 13, 2011 08:38 AM (z1N6a)
Posted by: Arms Merchant at September 13, 2011 08:41 AM (jx6di)
Sure. Then who should I vote for if I find out that he is not as pure as the driven snow?
Look, my vote is meaningless anyway. By the time my state holds it's primaries, the decision will be made for me. And there ain't now way CT is going to go red. So I tend not to get to married to any one candidate, as the game is out of my hands.
But at this point, the attacks on Perry strike me as petty compared to the huge problems we have right now with an out-of-control government and I just don't see Romney changing that.
Posted by: wiserbud at September 13, 2011 08:52 AM (3Okgs)
It's certainly close enough and it includes the same provisions that I find objectionable in Obamacare.
But inflating Perry's Dream Act into an amnesty deal is blatantly false.
By the way, it is a federal law that anyone who shows up at an ER gets treated, not just in MA. See: Emtala
Posted by: wiserbud at September 13, 2011 08:57 AM (3Okgs)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 08:58 AM (TMB3S)
152.......So again, why does Perry get cut slack on illegals?
Slack? This is slack? It seems to me like he is getting shredded on this issue.
Incidentally, Romney was one of the first governors to have the state police work with the feds on illegals.
I didn't know that...... Perry has Rangers working on it, from what I understand. A resource that Romney did not have.
Hey, I like Romney well enough.....but I know how he will get shredded by the Left for being a Mormon, if he is the nominee. You know they will do it. They are just waiting.
My big deal is beating Obama. And to do that, we will need a candidate who has the same-or-better-charisma-level that Obama has.
Romney is seriously lacking in the charisma department.
Bachmann too.
Palin has a level of charisma....with some voters....but her negatives cancell a lot of that out.
Ron Paul....well, there is no way that he could beat Obama.
Look at how people respond to Rick Perry....for no good apparent reason. He has that intrinsic ability to charm people.....just like the Stuttering Clusterfuck does. It is something that some people are just born with.
Most people are not paying any attention to these primary debates.....they are not news/politics junkies like we are. They will make up their minds this time next year, between the two candidates: Obama vs _______
We need a candidate that those stupid people will look at and say "I don't know why I like him, I just do."......And out of all the candidates, I think Rick Perry is that guy.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 08:59 AM (mwfMy)
We need to do this over drinks.
Posted by: wiserbud at September 13, 2011 09:01 AM (3Okgs)
And yet, even by this standard -- Obama's awful.
You misspelled Stuttering Clusterfark of a Miserable Failure. HTH. HAND.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at September 13, 2011 09:02 AM (1hM1d)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 09:08 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 09:15 AM (TMB3S)
Posted by: JackStraw at September 13, 2011 09:18 AM (TMB3S)
165.....>>Slack? This is slack? It seems to me like he is getting shredded on this issue.
Not really. If he was really being shredded rdbrewer would have a picture of Perry on the sidebar with an actual sombrero.
________
Heh.... Well maybe that's because Perry has been adamant about being against Amnesty.
At least Perry has been rounding up the criminal illegals and is suing the Obama administration for reimbursement on housing them....that's something.
Another big issue for me is Right-to-Work. I have signed Rand Paul's national petitions on this, and I would love to see a National Right-to-Work law passed.
Out of all the candidates, I think Perry and maybe Romney would be the ones who would sign it if it was put before them to sign.
Problem is....they have to get elected first. And because of the Mormon thing, and the lack of charisma thing....I think that Romney stands a slim chance of beating Obama and getting elected.
Unfortunately politics always comes down to a popularity contest.....it always does. Bush had more charisma than Gore or Kerry, that's why he won..... I know that it is petty, and we don't like to acknowledge it. But it is what it is.
Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 09:37 AM (mwfMy)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at September 13, 2011 09:48 AM (bxiXv)
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Posted by: christine at September 13, 2011 08:46 PM (RkJ5/)
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