1 Ok, now, give us one good reason why we would want to elect this guy. He appears to be a world class waffler and a wimp.

2 Ace, are you going to live-blog the debate?

3 Because Perry had not rocketed to instant acceptance as I thought he would, I began considering Romney as an adequate Plan B. Don't say Plan B to your Pharmacist of Choice...

4 Because Perry had not rocketed to instant acceptance as I thought he would, I began considering Romney as an adequate Plan B.

I had a knee-jerk purity quip to make, but I thought, just this once, I'd read the rest of the post before entering internet tough guy mode.

Thanks for the rest, btw.

5 wouldn't vote for this dumbass anyway.  If it came down to it in 2012, I'd write in my parrot, Willow.

Fuck you, mittens.

6 164 people said they might vote for Romney and only half of them were Republithugs!!1! Electable!!!

7 If it came down to it in 2012, I'd write in my parrot, Willow.

Dude. Given the SCOAMF, I vote for freakin' Ron Paul if he were the nominee.

8 As Democratic and Republican leaders in Washington struggled to find agreement on spending cuts and extending the debt limit, Mitt Romney struck a conciliatory note in New Hampshire on Monday by lamenting partisan feuding while touting his record of working with Democrats -- even the Senate's onetime liberal lion Edward M. Kennedy.
...
By way of contrast, Romney said, during his early years as governor he held weekly meetings with Democratic legislators after realizing that to get something done he "had to be friendly."

9 New Hampshire has an- OPEN PRIMARY BITCHES!

10 Psst. Vic --

I don't read your posts when you do that.

It's more refined than ALL CAPS, but it's still shouting.

11 I'm not sure how I feel about this post.  Let me stick my finger in the air.

Nope, don't like it.

Well, it's not that bad.

Nope, definitely don't like it.

12 We are- The Deciders.

13 7 If it came down to it in 2012, I'd write in my parrot, Willow.

Dude. Given the SCOAMF, I vote for freakin' Ron Paul if he were the nominee.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at September 22, 2011 06:29 PM (bjRNS)

Willow understand supply and demand.  she can speak english without a teleprompter (she loves the sprout channel) and she wouldn't be golfing for half her term.

14 wouldn't vote for this dumbass anyway.  If it came down to it in 2012, I'd write in my parrot, Willow.

lower case 'willow'. We might as well write in one of our own.

15 Just wait, the answer is coming, you betcha!

16 12 We are-

The Deciders People You Pissed Off That You Really Shouldn't Have Pissed Off.

Posted by: New Hampshire at September 22, 2011 06:31 PM (rJVPU)

17 Willow understand supply and demand.  she can speak english without a teleprompter (she loves the sprout channel) and she wouldn't be golfing for half her term.

She's got eight days to register for the primary, like everyone else.

18 JeffB hardest hit.

19

I always found his "I will issue a waiver to everyone" claim to be just step-one in him going "Now that we have time we can modify Obamacare to actually work."

He strikes me as a "what can government do?" type.  And that would be his dafault action, making the government do something vs getting government out of the way.

20 Jane, yes, we're live-blogging.

21 Repealing obamacare will be hard and it will take a man with guts and strong leadership skills.

Listening to Romney waffle on social security, he ain't it..

22 Sorry, an addendum:

She's got eight days to register for the primary, like everyone else.

If she's the nominee, I'll vote for her.

23 I'm starting to be disappointed with the field again. Perry has underwhelmed, Romney is pissing me off and Bachmann went off the rails. I don't want Palin to enter. I like Cain and Gingrich a lot, but they're probably not strong enough for various reasons in a national election. Santorum, Huntsman, Paul and Johnson are useless. I'm starting to hope Ryan or Chritie reconsider.

24 This **let's punt-off-all-these-long-delayed-decisions-to our-grandchildren-along-with-a-huge-pile of debt independent/moderate segment** is not true. The time is now, SS is going to flip, requiring more tax dollars, the current unwritten budget has a deficit of at least $1 trillion that NOONE will lend us. So, the day is here. We're just too stupid and lazy to realize it. Until one day you go to the grocery store and goddamned lettuce is $3 and mac n cheese is nearing $2. But yeah, forget about liquid whore and let's figure out who these guys are. Perry may actually do some repealing, although he may also do some amnestying too. That's why I am not burying the Bach and still like Newt!

25 14 wouldn't vote for this dumbass anyway.  If it came down to it in 2012, I'd write in my parrot, Willow.

lower case 'willow'. We might as well write in one of our own.

Posted by: Methos at September 22, 2011 06:31 PM (sOXQX)

No, her name is Willow, not willow. 

Want to challenge her on that?  Ever seen an African Grey go apeshit on your earlobe?  I think you don't.

26 It's pretty clear to anyone who cares to look. Romney vetoed the "Health Care Reform" in MA more than a dozen times, while Rick "The Stick" Perry tried to use his Executive power to force injections. Who loves big gubmint?

27 8 Vic, I am far from in with Mitt, that said it looks like the idiot middle that put Ogabe over the top are in with Mitt. If we get big enough coattails in '12 Congress would play the fiddle again. If it looks like Perry can't beat Ogabe, but Mitt can I may pull the lever.

28

Fuck Mittens. You should get at him more ace. Why Bachmann? That horse is dead.

He really needs to get taken out and Perry does not seem the one to do it.

29 Bachmann is a fucking idiot and a lunatic.

30 reposted from last thread to Jane: Thought for your kid when sending care packages to D'oh boy.

OT: Jane D'oh, i have had exceptionally good luck shipping those plastic chocolate pudding cups to the Rockpile for Grim. also been shipping him Chef Boyardee ravioli. they make nice treats/ desperation meals. for some reason hes been craving chocolate and the pudding ships well, and was something he liked getting in his lunchbox as a kid.

might want to bag it in a ziplock vaccuum seal bag like i do in case of puncture. But its a super way to get around the care package guidance of NO CHOCOLATE. worked great and he saved them for his days off to enjoy or after big missions when he wants to reward himself.

31 20 Jane, yes, we're live-blogging.

Posted by: ace at September 22, 2011 06:32 PM (nj1bB)

Thanks, Ace.

32 Yeah, I'm sick of Mitt.  I've bumped him below Gingrich. 

33 31 Bachmann (insert name of GOP candidate here) is a fucking idiot and a lunatic.

Posted by: ace at September 22, 2011 06:34 PM (nj1bB)

FTFY

34 I feel like trolling as Pro-Romney just because I smell a vacuum. Let's see-he had to govern Masshole, he also had to get elected there.... Ummm...has he said anything like-what was right for Mass. at the time was wrong for.... oh forget it. This Romney defending is hard.

35 This is what makes me nervous about Romney. He would rather change positions than take the heat for a politically difficult position. He doesn't have any principles for which he's wiling to go to the mat to defend.

36 Hey Ace! My buddy sonnyspats been posting here for years . How come he gets locked out of the liveblogging during debates? What's he chopped liver or somethin?

37 Let's see.... Kathryn Jean Lopez liked him because he reminded her of her Donny Osmond lunch box.

38 Yeah, I'm sick of Mitt.  I've bumped him below Gingrich.

I've been trying to remember what it was I disliked about Gingrich. All I can come up with is "with Nancy on a couch," and that doesn't seem that big a deal.

39 wouldn't vote for this dumbass anyway.  If it came down to it in 2012, I'd write in my parrot, Willow.

lower case 'willow'. We might as well write in one of our own.

Hell, I wrote my own name in for '08.  (In my defense, it's not like Alabama was a swing state then.  Call it the luxury of knowing it doesn't matter anyway.)

40 Dan weeps.

41 36I feel like trolling as Pro-Romney just because I smell a vacuum.

Hmph!!I beg your pardon!

42 Romney has been in the business world and not a professional politician because.... ummm.... McCain defeated him. *shit*

43 can someone fucking dig up john wayne or ronald reagan already?  Like 4 years of Weekend at Bernies?

We're so fucked.

44 So, fine Bachman who's poised and articulate, possibly the first clean and articulate woman to ever enter politics, is a no go. Newt! probably too. So, who out there will save us? Who is not an amnesty shill? Who will repeal O-care? Who will cut regulations? Who will nominate conservative lawyers to the bench (e.g., me)? Who will tell NananPelolo to go suck it? um, not Christie or Guiliani. Palin? Ryan?

45 I always found his "I will issue a waiver to everyone" claim to be just step-one in him going "Now that we have time we can modify Obamacare to actually work."

He's said Repeal and Replace, but he has not detailed what the "replace" would entail.  Last I checked (a couple of days ago) his campaign website on health care was still just a few paragraphs with no detail plan. 

And he's supposed to be an expert on this.

And he's been running for three plus years now. 

46 So when Obama asks for in-state tution for illegals he's a fringe Leftist, but when Rick Perry actually institutes it we're supposed to consider him the true conservative? 

47 37 KP, Yup he is like Bush on domestic policy in that sense.

48
Hell, I wrote my own name in for '08.  (In my defense, it's not like Alabama was a swing state then.  Call it the luxury of knowing it doesn't matter anyway.)

Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord© sez F--- Nevada! at September 22, 2011 06:37 PM (Fs7RJ)

My state, PA, is a swing and I aint voting for romney. I'd rather have the republican congrress do nothing then let another douche in the WH

49 Maybe there are no true conservatives in the GOP.

50 Looking forward to liveblogging later and more.. angry Newt!..

51 40Yeah, I'm sick of Mitt. I've bumped him below Gingrich.

I've been trying to remember what it was I disliked about Gingrich. All I can come up with is "with Nancy on a couch," and that doesn't seem that big a deal.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at September 22, 2011 06:37 PM (bjRNS)

Zactly second look a the Newtman!

52 Bachmann is not an idiot nor a lunatic, she's a complicated woman with hopes and dreams and that scare weak minded men and inspires the best in Americans of every stripe.

53 Romney is getting the endorsements of people that will owe him... Perry is getting the endorsements of outside the beltway governors that know him.... Wait...

54

whoops darn sock

 

55 So when Obama asks for in-state tution for illegals he's a fringe Leftist, but when Rick Perry actually institutes it we're supposed to consider him the true conservative?

Do I keep having to go over degrees?

56 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.I will vote for Romney if I have too,don't make me have too.

57 No, Romney would not repeal ObamaCare. Honestly, I don't understand why Romney is being seriously considered as the Republican nominee for president given his record on RomneyCare. If he wanted to run as a Democrat I could see that. But as a Republican? Really?

58 Meiczyckaw, he also supported scozzafaba In the NY 23 election.

59 @57, if not FTW, then for a nice blue ribbon, say "best special needs comment"

60 I've been trying to remember what it was I disliked about Gingrich. All I can come up with is "with Nancy on a couch," and that doesn't seem that big a deal

I have concerns about his character, although not as severe was my concerns about Huntsman whom I have concluded is a nasty piece of work.  (Obama-level nasty.) 

Perry is still way ahead of the others on my list, but I am furious about Romney lying about Perry and in the process knee-capping the GOP on Social Security reform.  I've defended the dude for a long time, but I'm fed up with him. 

61 57Bachmann is not an idiot nor a lunatic, she's a complicated woman with hopes and dreams and that scare weak minded men and inspires the best in Americans of every stripe./s

Posted by: Dr Spank at September 22, 2011 06:39 PM (BcpOa) 

 There ya go!

62 And I think people are bashing Romney just because he has the last wrong name.

63 who not whom

grrr

64 The more Romney triangulates, the more Jon Huntsman looks like a model of conviction and principles.

65 No.

66 I said it before, I'll say it again:

Want to get elected?  Your nickname needs to be "The Hammer." 

Don't cut through red tape, hit it with a flamethrower.  Stand on principles, swat away the lawyers and nay-sayers and steamroll this country back to success.

Period.

Fuck it.  I should run.

Who's with me!?
...
I said who's with me?
...
Is anyone there?

67 Romney is taller and has better hair. Plus the crease in his pants is patrician. This means David Brooks will convince ten readers of the NYT to vote for him!

68 @66, yes, what is it about Hunstman we're not supposed to like? Is he permanently tainted as a DNC plant?

69 It's more refined than ALL CAPS, but it's still shouting.

That appears to be the only way I can get pixy to go italics. Italics indicates it is a quote.

70 And while Romney talks up how dreadfully "extreme" Perry's "Ponzi" talk is, he is making implicit promises to his would-be governing coalition: That he will not be "extreme." That he will be... middle of the road.

If Romney was running for Captain of the RMS Titanic, his theme would be that he'd work smarter, so the ship would sink at 4:40 am instead of 2:40 am.  He'd just forget to mention that the same passengers would perish.

71 he also supported scozzafaba In the NY 23 election.

Link, please.

72

I agree with most of this. I've been trying to talk myself into not disliking romney. After the SS scaremongering he lost me. I've accepted that there is a 50/50 chance that he wins the primaries and I'm trying to prepare myself for a possible win.

However, I simply can't do it. I will be disappointed if he wins. I will not offer him any support other than my vote in the general if he wins.

To me, he's another four years of no accomplishments. Does anyone thing he'll reform Social Security, Medicare or repeal Obamacare? Does anyone thing he'll reign in the EPA or OSHA? Does anyone honestly believe he will cut spending?

I simply don't. To me, he'll simply suck less than Obama and I can't get excited about that and I won't donate time or money to that.

73 I think sarcasm is implied in all my comments.

74 Levin is on making the point that the establishment is in a hurry to choose a candidate, right now!

No hurry to choose a RINO.

75 But yeah, forget about liquid whore and let's figure out who these guys are. Perry may actually do some repealing, although he may also do some amnestying too.

Perry's not perfect. The Gardasil debacle and the 'last name' bullshit are marks against him. He is still far and away superior to the rest of the field on record. And his basic position, that government needs to become irrelevant to as many of us as possible, is the closest thing to a solution available to us. Which is not a guarantee, it's just the most likely route to a successful rebuilding effort after the credit collapse runs its course, if he sticks with it.

I don't see any glimmer of hope with Romney.

No, her name is Willow, not willow. 

I was suggesting the commenter. Meant to be funny.

76 72 @62

Actually, I know personally that Rove can not stand Mitt.

Mormonism is a cult, I think that was his quote.

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at September 22, 2011 06:42 PM (hXJOG)

Rove is an idiot.  Nearly lost 2 elections he should have won handily.  Architect my ass.

77 Romney could get the swing states of Michigan, New Hampshire and Nevada.

78 I'd rather vote for Ron Paul! than for a candidate who won't repeal Obamacare. And that means working the Senate to get a clean repeal bill.

79 Romney has always seemed slicker than snot to me.  Say anything, do anything to get elected. Once in the WH he'll talk a good game but won't have the guts to do what he KNOWS is right. 

80 That appears to be the only way I can get pixy to go italics. Italics indicates it is a quote.

Ah, OK. I've had days where the comment tool doesn't work right, and then (all of a sudden) it works fine again.

I'll blame Firefox.

81 @73, you remind me of what I wrote back in the early days about the Hammer. The GOP allowed itself to be denutted, by letting the liberals plink off our effective leaders. sigh. By that realization, maybe Newt! is the key. I'd rather have someone play lipservice to the false god of global warming than to consider amnesty.

82 82

I don't see any glimmer of hope with Romney.

No, her name is Willow, not willow. 

I was suggesting the commenter. Meant to be funny.

Posted by: Methos at September 22, 2011 06:43 PM (sOXQX)

Hokay, mister funny... I'd be looking up if I were you.

83

That appears to be the only way I can get pixy to go italics. Italics indicates it is a quote.

I feel for you. Pixy is a finnicky bitch

84 o boy,  slips on stolen  kevlar

85 41 Jesus, ABC is not giving up on Troy.  It's all racism!  Southern racism!

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at September 22, 2011 06:37 PM (hXJOG)

Yeah, and it didn't help that one of the f*cking attorneys called the execution a "legal lynching."  They ate that crap up.

The MacPhail family are good people.  They deserve some peace now.

Oh, and Davis' name on the street here in Savannah was "ROH" --"Rough as Hell."  A real sweetheart.  And he shot someone earlier before he killed poor young Officer MacPhail.

*down, blood pressure, down*

86 >>> . The Gardasil debacle Sigh. All those INNOCENT. LITTLE. GIRLS. Who wouldn't have had cervical cancer. Freedom to have cancer-- now THAT'S What America's all about!!!

87 79 Yeah,it will be like 2008 again.We will at least have the motivation of realising just how bad Obama is though.

88 If Romney wanted to prove he is serious about getting rid of Obamacare his first act is to pressure congress to allow insurance to be sold across states lines.  If he is truly the businessman he touts himself to be he knows and understands competition is the key.

89 Wow. You managed to find a Philip Klein article slamming Romney! You must have had to dig hard since he does one of these a day. Romney fought for a lot of things as governor including submitting a tax decrease 3 years in a row (defeated by the donk legislature), fought gay marriage up through the MA SC (lost), refused to sign off on the regional cap and trade boondoggle, and on and on and on. He actually got the MA legislature to come back into session and cut the budget he inherited after being elected to get a balanced budget and he managed to close a 3 trillion dollar whole without using government stimulus dollars to do it. But if only we had had a true fighter like battling Rick Perry to take on a legislature that is 85% Dem, mostly liberal, we could have turned MA into a conservative utopia and had a lower unemployment rate than Texas. Oh wait, we did and we still do.

90 I've said it before and I'll say it again, I will not vote for Mitt Romney. I feel bad for you morons in states where your vote actually matters...

91 Hey, not to win friends or influence people, but a hale and hearty FUCK YOU to all the Mitt haters out there! Look, I'm not the smartest man in the room, but Coulter, Flake and Issa aren't dummies.  Mitt moved a blue state redder- Perry did the opposite. Bitch all you want, but isn't that the goal?

92 If Mitt Romney wins the nomination (which he won't, Perry will eventually) I plan on sitting the election out like I did in 1992 and 1996. I don't see enough difference between Romney and Obama to think he will change the course we're on. If that is the case I would rather have Obama take the all the blame.

93 Hey Ace help a brotha out and end my lockout from the livestream.

94 We need to snort some gun powder to get ready for the live blogging.

Isn't that how they did it on "The Island"?

95 I know this is stupid, but I'm starting to move into the Newt camp. The heart wants what it wants... or something more masculine that means the same thing.

96 79 Ben, Indeed, Bush at least tried to reform entitlements. He failed so we added one and got nothing, but he tried. The war forced him to cede his agenda. Mitt wants to cave when we have the mules on the ropes. His winning if handled badly empowers the left. We may be forced to go with plan B in '20 if that happens and infiltrate the Donks.

97

I don't see Romney as a conservative, I see him as a romneybot.  He's a corporate republican, not a small business republican. Will he repeal ObamaCare?  I doubt it.  I credit Perry of admitting a mistake with the vaccine thing. Will Romney ever say RomenyCare was a bad thing? Nope.  And that tells me everything about the spineless man.

If he ends up the repub nominee, I still plan to vote against Barry, but I doubt Romney will shrink the fed govt much and all the work the Tea Party, all those inroads the Tea Party made will be pretty much for naught. And within 10 years this country's debt will be 20+ trillion, the CBO has said this, the IMF has projected this, the Chinease know this, the world knows this. If this is not turned around via real growth by the middle of the decade, we are pretty much lost as a country. Does Romney recognize much of this, well more than Barry Soetero of course, but not at a visceral level that Perry does. Romney is not Obama-lite as much as scott brown-lite.

98 Meicz, I can't do links on my phone, but you shoild be able to find plent of info by doing a Google search. He supported her because "The local party chose her, who am I to question them" or some such

99

willow, per the last thread, thanks for the kind words.

 

100
Maybe there are no true conservatives in the GOP.

Posted by: joeindc44 at September 22, 2011 06:39 PM (QxSug)

Hah!

Somebody has actually figured it out.

101 Yikes! How much BS can you pack into one post about Romney?

102 94 >>> . The Gardasil debacle

Sigh.

All those INNOCENT. LITTLE. GIRLS.

Who wouldn't have had cervical cancer.

Freedom to have cancer-- now THAT'S What America's all about!!!

Posted by: ace at September 22, 2011 06:46 PM (nj1bB)

Well, Ace, years from now, all the women whose moms chose not to give them tardisil because of Bachmann and developed cervical cancer can blame her. And their ignorant moms.

Way to go, Michelle.

103

Posted by: John at September 22, 2011 06:46 PM (HmTkU

Wow thats the stupidest thing I ever read, anywhere, ever!

104 94 >>> . The Gardasil debacle

Sigh.

All those INNOCENT. LITTLE. GIRLS.

Who wouldn't have had cervical cancer.

Freedom to have cancer-- now THAT'S What America's all about!!!

Posted by: ace at September 22, 2011 06:46 PM (nj1bB)

Clearly they should take the vaccine sold by a Merk's competitor that is a Bachman supporter.  I'd love to see her get asked about that.

105 I read somewhere that Perry is getting international affairs advice from John fucking Bolton. I hope if Perry wins he makes Bolton Secretary of State. I might start having wet dreams again.

106 ace, This Gardrasil thing keeps coming up, but why does no one ever mention that it never actually happened. Jesus, we have genuine economy-destroying policies ON THE BOOKS, but we're talking about some EO that was never instituted.

107 do any of these candidates have the stones to get us out of the massive clusterfuck we're in?

Herman Cain, maybe.

Ron Paul would be good domestically but his foreign policy is ass.

Outside of that, we're fucked.

108 We have an empty suit in office now.

We don't need a slightly larger empty suit.

Nothing Romney can say can hide his record on the issues. It is just not what we need.

109 Has anyone mentioned that Obama is a clusterfuck of a miserable failure yet?

110 Frankly, Bachmann lost me when she went all in on Liquid Whore. If she had just said made the point that Government shouldn't order kids to be vaccinated against STD's, OK, fine. I see your point. But then she went and got shrill about it ... so... pass.

Cain just isn't getting traction. Gingrich is bi-polar. One day, he's proposing brilliant and innovative solutions, the next he's sitting on the couch next to Nancy Pelosi calling Paul Ryan a nut. Ron Paul... well, we already elected one fringe cult leader president, how did that work out? Santorum has a better change of being elected Marshall of the West Hollywood Gay Pride Parade than president.

So, we're left with Perry and Romney. Both deeply flawed, but probably better than the SCOTUS. They're B-minus candidates, to be sure. But there's not an A-grade candidate on this team.

111 Are we swinging back Mitt? I thought it was a Perry place?

112 97 99 I think you can understand why we would be less than thrilled with Mitt.I don't begrudge yo your own opinion and you let me have mine.I supported in him in 08 cause he was better than the alternative,I think Perry is the better alternative now.Which doesn't mean I love everything about Perry's record.

113 75 @66, yes, what is it about Hunstman we're not supposed to like? Is he permanently tainted as a DNC plant?

I gave Huntsman a serious look when his name was first floated, but have discounted him.  He left a lot of Utahns feeling betrayed by his actions when he was governor here, particularly on school choice and carbon trade.  If Mitt has a rep as a flip-flopper, my impression is that Huntsman is even worse in terms of being crassly political. 

He has, in theory (on paper), a great resume from having several international appointments in GOP administrations, but he has yet to show me how he'd be better at foreign policy than any solid conservative.  And, frankly, when he got the China ambassadorship I thought it looked pretty bad because of the dealings his dad's company has over there. 

I also don't like a guy whose main public service is through political appointments rather than elections. 

Then when he announced it was clear he was not going to run as someoen with insider information on Obama's failings, but instead run a McCain 2.0 campaign against his old boss.

And teh story (in Vanity Fair I think) about why Huntsman hates Romney (over the Olympics gig) is true from what I have heard from basically everyone here, including well-connected Utahns. 

114 As much as JackStraw thinks I "hate" Romney, I don't... but Mitt's pandering and ideological flexibility (to put it kindly) are big red flags to me.

We see this time and again- waiting, poll testing, and focus grouping before making a decision that's sufficiently "safe".  Not of great consequence, but the Rubio endorsement was another example- he waffled till it looked like Rubio would win, then and only then would he endorse.

Every pol tailors his message according to the audience and electorate to some degree, but Mitt takes it to an entirely higher and disturbing level.

In 2008 when he campaigned in MI, he favored "investments" in the auto industry.  In IA, he was all-in for ag / ethanol subsidies.  In FL he proposed increasing SS benefits without really saying how he'd pay for higher benefit payments.  All while maintaining that he was a hardcore fiscal conservative.

We (or at least I) have no idea whatsoever how he'd actually govern, and his record in MA doesn't help in the slightest.  I'm sure he'd appoint competent people, but otherwise would he be a conservative?  A moderate?  A fighter?  A wimp?  A technocrat?  It's impossible to even guess.

115 Erikw, i feel really bad for you guys, she is young to go through such an ordeal.

well anyone to go through such an ordeal.
you know..

116 Freedom to have cancer-- now THAT'S What America's all about!!!

Ace, I love ya, but that's the world's stupidest strawman.  The problem with Perry on this is that he used an EO to subvert the legislature, and that's exactly what the SCOAMF does all the time.  Now, he's admitted in public that it was a stupid mistake, and I believe him when he says that, but it *was* a stupid mistake, regardless of what the actual policy was about.

117 >>>JeffB hardest hit.

WTF is this supposed to mean? 

>>>Bachmann is not an idiot nor a lunatic, she's a complicated woman with hopes and dreams and that scare weak minded men and inspires the best in Americans of every stripe.

Ah, I get it now. 

118 Besides, Klein has had an axe with mitt a long time.  I guess thats what confounds me- the hatred for romney.  I think Perry is a lotta talk conservative, but has screwed me over on taxes (hello texas franchise tax and property taxes going up 15% each year I've been here), and if the legislature hednt saved his ass on the tran texas corridor, he'd have lost re-election

119 Jesus, ABC is not giving up on Troy.  It's all racism!  Southern racism!

I hear you there.

120 I'm for Mitt. I'm against Mitt.  I'm for Mitt. I'm against Mitt. I'm for Mitt. I'm against Mitt.

121 So the guy who spent the vast bulk of his career in the private sector before being shanghaied by Huckabee and Mccain (political lifers) in 2008 is now the "Establishment" guy? Amusing how readily people mold history to fit their current mood.

122 So I need some knowledge on this. IF the legislature passed a measure repealing Obamacare, strong-armed the Maine twins and so forth, and it landed on Romney's desk, wouldn't he sign it? I swear he said he would. THAT, to me, is the most important thing. If he won't he can kiss my vote goodbye, but he's never said anything to the contrary. So I still think he's one of the best candidates we've got, until he proves me otherwise on that. Someone needs to ask this question at a debate so we can know once and for all. And ENOUGH with the Mormon digs, sockpuppet person at 25. We can't blast the dems and Andy Sullivan for doing it and labelling Romney as "weird" if we do it ourselves. Plus, I know this is shocking, but some of your fellow morons are Mormons too. Don't be a hater.

123

If gardisil comes up tonight I'm going to pee on the tv.

I'm so fucking sick of this stupid side show.

124 Ben at September 22, 2011 06:42 PM

I was going to comment, but you covered my take pretty well.  Instead of heading towards the precipice of economic collapse screaming with our hair on fire, it will be a more leisurely stroll.

125

That he'll do more of the same, but maybe just a little bit better, and will not seek drastic, controversial (!!!) reforms, but rather tinker a bit to get us through the next four years or so.

Posted by: Ace at 06:25 PM Key question then becomes... do we have 4 more years when we can just tinker around the edges?   Europe is about to implode, with the Middle East to follow (once the Economy is bad enough so they don't have enough Petro bucks to support their Welfare states).   Eastern Europe remains OK... but Russia has the ability to cut off their energy supplies...   Meanwhile, America goes under trying to keep Europe and the World economy afloat, while NOT investing in our own resources and homeland.   When the US economy goes... China goes with it (loss of too large of a market), as they are supporting a boom using American Coal and Dollars....   Whole world is teetering on an economic / political  precipice.... and the Status Quo is what got us here....   Thus, someone who is a status quo candidate, is out of the running for my vote.   Romney is the epitome of Washington Insider Status Quo.

126 Where's alexthechick?  Megyn looks hawt tonight.  She's not wearing alex's favorite naughty librarian glasses, though.

127 Honestly, I don't know what he actually stands for, which is, oddly enough, a good thing, since it at least holds out the hope he'd be more conservative than we might expect him to be.

People who depended on the MFM for their news could have said some very similar things about Obama in the 2008 election.  That didn't turn out well.

Romney in the White House would be just slightly better than Obama.

128 "Romney, in short, has displayed zero political courage during his career."

So I'll put my flip-flops on the Resolute Desk. Big deal. At least the scuff marks will be minimal.

129 Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 22, 2011 06:47

He really does fight back well.

i wouldn't hate it. but i do hope Perry has been boning up on smacking down the attacks.

130 134

If gardisil comes up tonight I'm going to pee on the tv.

I'm so fucking sick of this stupid side show.

Posted by: Ben at September 22, 2011 06:51 PM (tEGzl)

Please post the vid to YouTube.  Or it didn't happen.

131 Maybe there are no true conservatives in the GOP.

Posted by: joeindc44 at September 22, 2011 06:39 PM (QxSug)

Hah!

Somebody has actually figured it out.

Posted by: Ed Anger at September 22, 2011 06:48 PM (7+pP9)

 

That's because true conservatives have a reasonable amount of common sense and common sense tells us that we want nothing to do with the microscope-up-the-ass election process.

132

 So the guy who spent the vast bulk of his career in the private sector before being shanghaied by Huckabee and Mccain (political lifers) in 2008 is now the "Establishment" guy? Amusing how readily people mold history to fit their current mood.

Hey, given the options, I wanted Romney in 2008.  I thought his concession speech at CPAC was the best speech he ever gave.

But a lot of shit has happened between the 2007 primaries and 2011 primaries.

Wouldn't you agree. It's not so much that we changed our minds on a whim, is it?

133
troy dead.

134 I want to see Perry come after Romney tonight. Romney has so many vulnerabilities on RomneyCare and nobody is damaging him on it.

135 By that realization, maybe Newt! is the key. I'd rather have someone play lipservice to the false god of global warming than to consider amnesty.

Posted by: joeindc44 at September 22, 2011 06:44 PM (QxSug)

Hey just maybe Newt believed the hype back then. Lets hope the subject comes up tonight.

136 Rick Perry should inject himself in the neck with Gardisil live on TV to show it is safe.

Or just bitch slap anyone who brings it up.

137 134

If gardisil comes up tonight I'm going to pee on the tv.

I'm so fucking sick of this stupid side show.

Posted by: Ben at September 22, 2011 06:51 PM (tEGzl)

Hmm...just don't ground yourself out.

138 **I read somewhere that Perry is getting international affairs advice from John fucking Bolton. I hope if Perry wins he makes Bolton Secretary of State. ** The stache for the win.

139 I only care about one thing, really: slapping silly people who promise to "sit out" the election if Romney wins.  Folks, it may well happen.  If it does, you're a fucking nutbag if you manage to squint your eyes and distort your POV enough to convince yourself that Barack Obama is a preferable choice to Mitt Romney + a conservative Congress. 

REMEMBER: WHOEVER WINS THE NEXT TERM GETS TO NOMINATE UPWARDS OF THREE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, INCLUDING THE REPLACEMENT FOR RUTH BADER GINSBURG AND PERHAPS ANTHONY KENNEDY.

You want Barack Obama doing that?  Even if you think Mitt Romney would fuck it up and pick some squish, that would STILL be 1000% better than two screaming liberals with life-tenure.

140

You know, Romney's Winter Olympics thing really was an amazing management job.  But it didn't involve opposition or real controversy. 

Mitt really is that good, but in a way that doesn't translate to the political world.  What are his Mass. success stories?  Anyone?  Anyone?

Ugh.  Mitt the Milquetoast RINO or Open-Borders Perry, the Crony Capitalist.  At least I can still vote against Obama.

141 Freedom to have cancer-- now THAT'S What America's all about!!!

ace, I mean the political debacle. He's admitted that he went about it in the wrong way. That's all I'm saying. And that it's less of a concern than the baggage any other candidate is lugging around.

142 152 **I read somewhere that Perry is getting international affairs advice from John fucking Bolton. I hope if Perry wins he makes Bolton Secretary of State. **

The stache for the win.

Posted by: joeindc44 at September 22, 2011 06:54 PM (QxSug)

That is the stache of PWN

143 84 Romney could get the swing states of Michigan, New Hampshire and Nevada.

Governor of Nevada endorsed Perry.

There are a lot of Mormons in NV, but I don't know that it's a lock for Mitt. 

Michigan... well, I think the jury is out on that. In the general Perry should seriously consider a Mitch Daniels type (if he's interested in running as VP). 

144 Yeah, vetoing MA Health Care required no courage, but penciling an Executive Order sentencing TX girls to medical/social experimentation was brave as all get out? Puhleezee. Romney was a hell of a lot more courageous as a Repub. in MA than Perry was as a Repub. in Texas.

145 Off, stupid zombie actual racist sock!

146 153 Agreed.We can't afford another Obama term,hell,we can't afford his first term!

147

Romney called himself "middle class" yesterday, didn't he grow up in a rich family?  Perry grew up poor, didn't he, a farmer's son.

I don't care, but I don't trust Romney that much, 2013 will be devastating for the economy, and someone who knows what they stand for, what direction the country should go, etc that is someone who needs to be charge. This country will never see unemployment below 8%, especially when ObamaCare is fully implemented, there's a reason why Europe has high unemployment constantly, all that redistrubution and all those safety nets costs money, money that will not be used to expand an ecnomy.

148

Hmm...just don't ground yourself out.

Posted by: Red Shirt at September 22, 2011 06:54 PM (FIDMq)

Ouch.

149 Ace: "...That he'll do more of the same, but maybe just a little bit better, and will not seek drastic, controversial (!!!) reforms, but rather tinker a bit to get us through the next four years or so..."

So which side of the bed did you get on today? Aha. The Right one. Would you care for some mild TEA?

150 gardasil isnt the issue- it was a dipshit move on perry's part to EO, and it stunk to high heaven of cronyism.  And what the hell is his insinuation that those who oppose his dream act are RACIST?! I dont give a fuck what their last name is- I care that they're getting a better deal than an american citizen from OK gets

151 This is our field, ladies and gentlemen. Perry is the best candidate. He beats them all, hands down. Mittens is like oatmeal. Bland, cold oatmeal.

152

Yes Newty endorsed dede scuzzy-commie in NY-23

153

What are Romney's actual politics? Down in his heart?

Romney stands for Romney.

He'll look you in the eye, shake your hand, and ask for your vote ...

... then do what he needs to do to retain power.

154 You have nothing to fear from a Perry administration.

155 Romney may support climate change, government take-over of health care, letting illegal aliens roam free across our great land, and chance his stance over whether newborns should be killed at the drop of a hat, but he hasn't tried to stick dirty needles, filled with skank saucer, in our daughters in order to create a mongoloid workforce to do his yard-work.

156 Romney lost to McCain.

Enough said.

157 Is this where I leave my "I'm not voting for Mittsy in the general" comment?

158 >>>Yeah, vetoing MA Health Care required no courage, but penciling an Executive Order sentencing TX girls to medical/social experimentation was brave as all get out? Puhleezee. Romney was a hell of a lot more courageous as a Repub. in MA than Perry was as a Repub. in Texas.

It occurs to me that, beyond Romneycare, I really know nothing about Mitt's tenure in Massachusetts.  The context, the record, nothing.  And I don't even know if I "know" Romneycare as well as I think I "know" it. 

This is the problem of political ignorance.

159

He strikes me as a "what can government do?" type.  And that would be his dafault action, making the government do something vs getting government out of the way.

 

Exactly.  The idiot has been running for president for how long?  Does anybody even think he'll try and make government smaller?  If he wins, it'll be his show and by G*d he'll keep things big by "working on it."

Every single conservative candidate who was elected in 2010 will essentially be neutered.

160 Bachmann's next stunt will be to bring her husband up on stage to "heal" all teh gheys. 

161

Romney went to school in Massachusetts and was a business professional there.  He had lived there since the early 70s when he decided to become a politician.

Now he could have done one of two things.  Either run in a more conservative state and be considered a political carpetbagger, or run in his home state.

He picked the latter and ran for Senate in Massachussetts against one Edward Kennedy.  The liberal lion of the Senate.  To have run on a conservative platform would have been a task doomed from the start, so he modified his fews.  He lost, but would have been absolutely pumelled had he campaigned as a strident conservative.

He later ran in Mass for Governor and was elected.  His record there is ideologically mixed.  Spending for the most part was stable in those four years.  He cut spending at times and raised fees at others.  Many of the spending cuts he proposed were promptly knocked down by an overwhelmingly liberal Mass legislature.  He did sign on with an assault weapons ban.  It should be remembered however that Ronald Reagan was pro-NRA but not exactly a pure conservative on the issue, as he supported the Brady Bill.

With respect to Romneycare, it is not a program I am a fan of, but I will say this.  It is vastly different from Obamacare in one crucial respect.  It isn't NATIONAL.  There is a tenth amendment issue here that is relevant.  Mass residents favored the program, for good or ill, overwhelmingly.  What Romney has NEVER supported is a nationwide imposition of government controlled healthcare.  He has stated that he will support waivers for all states regarding the health care law before it can be repealled.

Is he a flip-flopper?  Well that implies he's gone back and forth in his positions.  It seems to me he has flipped on a few issues, but not flopped back to his former position.  One thing that I haven't seen much indication of is his campaigning one way, and then governing another.  I don't see it to be to his advantage to try to govern the United States as if he was back in the state house in Massachusetts.  He's too smart to do such a thing, and I don't think that is what he would want to do anyway.  He's plenty old enough to remember when GHWB broke his no new taxes pledges, and the consequences he suffered.

162 See, thats what I cant stand about perry suporters- he's lily white to them, despite the fact he pulls the same race card the left does all the time AND NO ONE ON THE RIGHT CALLS HIM ON IT.

163 when is the debate? 8 pm right?

164 was "lily white" racist? oops

165 Or just bitch slap anyone who brings it up.

Posted by: sifty at September 22, 2011 06:54 PM (4CSeG)

 

All right!  Another Rick Perry assault video.

166

Yes Newty endorsed dede scuzzy-commie in NY-23

Posted by: Vic at September 22, 2011 06:57 PM (M9Ie6)

 

Sheesh, it's back for more?

167 I'm willing to bet, by nov next year, the electorate will be ready to listen to the Ponzi Scheme meme, when we are marinating in monetary woes. Romney is not. That makes him either stupid or a pussy either one we don't need.

168

Whack me in the head if I'm missing something that's obvious to everyone else, but....I don't understand why no one will so much as look in Rick Santorum's direction.

He was tea-party-fiscally conservative before it was cool, is well versed in foreign affairs (particularly the ME), has been active in entitlement reform efforts, and seems to me to be a man of integrity who stands by his principles.

Okay, so he's not flashy or gimmicky.  Is there something else that makes him a dud?

169 So the guy who spent the vast bulk of his career in the private sector before being shanghaied by Huckabee and Mccain (political lifers) in 2008 is now the "Establishment" guy? Amusing how readily people mold history to fit their current mood.

I think they're talking about the guy who's been campaigning almost continuously since 1996, with only a brief interlude while he served as MA governor.

170 The fact that it is unlikely he would repeal Obamacare is one of the reasons I would never vote for him.  What's the point?

171 >>and if the legislature hednt saved his ass on the tran texas corridor, he'd have lost re-election He wouldn't do all the great if the election was today. >>Rick Perry has an under water approval rating in Texas and he's leading Barack Obama by a smaller margin than John McCain won the state by in 2008...but at least he is leading Obama, which is more than he could say the last time we polled the state. >>45% of Texas voters approve of the job Perry is doing to 48% who disapprove. http://tinyurl.com/3s2xbgv So what's the explanation for that? Perry is supposedly a conservative hero governing in a conservative state, so how come he doesn't even get a majority in Texas and only barely beats Obama? Romney does better against Obama in Texas. How is that possible?

172 oh well, come for the biting commentry, stay for the latent racism...

173 170 Romney lost to McCain.
Enough said.

Perry could lose to Romney the same way that Romney lost to McCain.

174 Fox is going to be doing live polls through YouTube, I believe Bret said.

Oh hell.  Here comes Sheppy to mourn Troy Davis.

175
Screw it.

America deserves four more years of Obama.

Is there any other way to educate America that the socialist model equals epic fail?

176 By that realization, maybe Newt! is the key. I'd rather have someone play lipservice to the false god of global warming than to consider amnesty.

If you had read Pelosi's cap and screw bill you would not say that. That bill if it had been enacted would have totally destroyed the U.S. It was actually worse than the Obamacare bill.

Anyone who supported Pelosi on that scam doesn't deserve to remain in the Republican Party, much less get a vote for President.

177 Again us in TX have been screaming about taxes, but Perry has been MIA

178 Maybe I need to brush up on my Presidential election history, but isn't nominating someone from a particular state supposed to put that state instantly in play? Wasn't it a gigantic embarrassment that Al Gore couldn't even carry Tennessee? By all means, let's nominate someone that doesn't even have a chance of carrying the state where he's from (politically).

179 192
Screw it.

America deserves four more years of Obama.

Is there any other way to educate America that the socialist model equals epic fail?

Is there such a thing as being educated to death?

180 Any one who calls the TX in-state tuition bill the same thing as the Dream Act is either a lying Romneybot are a clueless dolt who has never looked at either bill.

181

Also, I think people are overstating Mitt Romney's electability.

If he wins, the MSM will focus on his record and past. It's not as clean and vetted as people assume.

Also, having a candidate who has more houses than most people have cars isn't the greatest thing in terms of optics. It surely didn't help McCain.

Romney is called a flip flopper for a reason. He's a panderer. He will tell any group he's speaking too exactly what they want to here. He's on video telling people one thing and then telling another group of people something comepletely different.

I just think that his biggest selling point, that he's electable, isn't as clear cut as some people are saying.

182

I have put up with constant disappointment with the GOP in Washington, if not outright betrayal.  I have held my nose and pulled the lever for two Bushes, Dole, and worst of all, McCain.

But Romney is a bridge too far.  I absolutely refuse to vote for him, and if he wins the nomination, I am through with the Republican Party.  I'll switch my registration to independent and most likely stay home on election day.

183 Votes as Appetizers:
Romney = Spinach Dip.  Mild, will not upset stomach.
Perry = Jalapeno Poppers.  Can cause indigestion and seems too mexican.
Bachmann = Bag of paint thinner.  Will cause brain damage.
Cain = Pizza.
Johnson = Weed.

184 all you need to remember about mitt is he was elected in blue massachusetts even though he ran as a republican....he's not conservative.....and he implemented his romneycare which obamacare was based on........he's not my choice in the primary.....i will vote half heartedly in the general if he's the nominee......

185

Is there such a thing as being educated to death?

Nothing is better than steak

Stale bread is better than nothing

Therefore stale bread is better than steak.

186 Jack, are you actually arguing that Romney is more conservative than Perry? Or do you care?

187 @124
Yeah, well JackStraw keeps alluding to scandals that are going to come out about Rick Perry.  Verrry ominous.  Oooh scarrry!

But I know for a fact the media is digging into Romney's donors for campaign finance violations.  Big donors whose family members and associates are getting called for opinions about the supposed scandal.  So this idea that Romney, whom very few people seem to actually like (outside of LDS circles) on a personal level but who many find acceptable as a "safe" candidate, is going to survive that kind of scandal is laughable to me. 

Mostly, however, I'm pissed off that he is resorting to trying to scare granny about Scary Perry.  It's cheap and most importantly it won't help us when guys like Ryan try to reform it. 

188 Is there any other way to educate America that the socialist model equals epic fail?

You nailed it. The real problem with our nation isn't Obama, it's the millions of people foolish enough to vote for him.

189 wooga....who is johnson?

190 People rightly criticize Palin for having accomplished nothing since the last election, but Romney has accomplished nothing either.  He has been running for president nonstop since around 2007.  I find that obsession with being president disconcerting.  At least Perry has a life outside wanting to be president.

191 184

Whack me in the head if I'm missing something that's obvious to everyone else, but....I don't understand why no one will so much as look in Rick Santorum's direction.

Because he's a fucking asshole.

192  Wasn't it a gigantic embarrassment that Al Gore couldn't even carry Tennessee?
Not if you were a conservative.  I laughed my ass off...and breathed a sigh of relief.

193

Johnson = Weed.

I'm actually excited to see Johnson tonight(heh).

I'd like to see libertarianism get a decent salesman for once instead of Obergruppenfuhrer Paul

194 By the way, Ace, Obama is NOT a SCFOMF, he has succeded in doing all he promised, and brilliantly- electricity skyrocketing, more like Europe, and universal health care.  He has succeeded in all his goals.  His goals just suck, but he didn't lie about 'em.  America ignored what he said

195 Do we want a candidate that is bad on every issue or one that's absolutely horrible on one issue?

196 we may have flip-floppers, but Obama is a stone cold liar.

197 drscott are you a paul guy?

198

Sure, I'd vote for Romney if necessary.  That said, he's exactly what's wrong with ALL politicians.  Anybody but 1. Obama 1a. Any Democrat ever again, 1b. Mitt Romney. 2. Rick Perry.

Shit.  Now what?   

199 And I really don't care if Perry isn't as slick a talker as Romney or any of the others.  I listen to the messege, not the style.

200 I love these threads.

201 208 wooga....who is johnson?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 22, 2011 07:03 PM (eOXTH)

Former New Mexico governor Johnson will be at the debate.  He's like a less crazy, more drug friendly version of Ron Paul.

202

Because he's a fucking asshole.

Posted by: wooga at September 22, 2011 07:03 PM (vjyZP)

'Splain, please?

203

...and he managed to close a 3 trillion dollar whole without using government stimulus dollars to do it.

Posted by: JackStraw at September 22, 2011 06:46 PM (TMB3S)

I think you've got three extra zeroes and one extra w in there.

204 >>194 Again us in TX have been screaming about taxes, but Perry has been MIA


WTF?

205

America deserves four more years of Obama.

Well, it's coming--if this blog is a microcosm, our side will be too busy tearing apart each other's candidate to focus on the REAL enemy.

206 It goes without saying that we'd all vote for a pet rock over Obama, and I'm still deciding between Romney (probably a sure win over Obama) vs. Perry (somewhat more reliable conservative but riskier in the general).

I too am distrustful of Romney, but I know Obama is a dirty rat.  If there is political capital to get an Obamacare repeal to a President Romney's desk, it's probably going to come from the hill, and I don't see him vetoing it.  If you're going to nullify it by an EO, you might as well sign a bill that repeals it.  Further, there hasn't been one favorable poll for Obamacare.  My hope is that SCOTUS takes it off the table before the elections anyway.

That said, there will be no entitlement reforms with a President Romney, unless they have bi-partisan cover, which means they'll be meaningless or probably further detrimental.  The best you can probably hope for is 8 years of Romney until Medicare collapses and VP now President Rubio lays a plan on the table.

207 "I'm starting to be disappointed with the field again. Perry has underwhelmed, Romney is pissing me off and Bachmann went off the rails. I don't want Palin to enter. I like Cain and Gingrich a lot, but they're probably not strong enough for various reasons in a national election. Santorum, Huntsman, Paul and Johnson are useless.

I'm starting to hope Ryan or Chritie reconsider." --Johnny E.

You people are almost as bad as the 0bamatrons that voted this pinko in office in the first place. There is NO messiah, no "perfect" candidate; and if you think Christie or Ryan have a shot down south you're dreamin'.

208 Incidentally, this race for me isn't really about Romney winning my vote, it's about Perry losing it.  And the problem is, Perry has been disqualifying himself at a rapid pace.  It's not just questions about his record -- I think stuff like Gardasil is utter BS, and I'm not even very upset about the so-called "Texas DREAM Act," but the pay-to-play stuff actually raises huge red flags (that Ace is conveniently blind to right now...) and could blow up into a major issue -- it's his ability to run the goddamn race. 

Because he's done a world-class crap job up until now.  And I don't give a shit about everyone who waves their hands and says "you can't trust Romney!" or "Perry's more conservative!" because none of that matters, doesn't matter one sweet goddamn bit, if Perry can't win in the general election.  Whether he can't win because he's compromised on his record or his past statements, or he can't win because he's actually not that good at taking and rebutting flak from opponents (whether Michele Bachmann or Barack Obama), it doesn't matter.  I WANT TO WIN. 

I will viciously drop consideration of anyone, no matter how theoretically ideologically preferable, who looks weak on that front.  I don't care if it's Rick Perry or Jesus Christ we're talking about.  (This, incidentally, is why the chorus of "I won't vote for Romney in the general election!" makes me want to vomit...you stupid fucks, do you realize what kind of mess we're in?  Drop the moronic bitter-ender rhetoric about how "Romney will only take us off the cliff slower than Obama"; not only is it not true, even if it was..are you saying you want us to zoom off the cliff?)

So I will reiterate, as prelude to tonight's debate: it's not a question of Romney 'winning' my vote -- he already has demonstrated to me that he has what it takes to match up against Obama.  The question now is whether Perry can stop from LOSING my vote, because it's slipping from his grasp, and if the polls are to be believed a lot of other people are feeling the exact same way right now.  This isn't on Romney so much as it is on Perry, IMO.

209 There are a lot of Mormons in NV, but I don't know that it's a lock for Mitt. I actually just moved out of Las Vegas... I think that state goes republican no matter who the candidate is quite frankly. As for Sandoval....*if* NV had more electoral votes-the resume on that guy... Federal judge. State Attorney General.

210 Why don't any of the other candidates bring up this stuff in the debates?

211 I reluctantly voted for McCain. I'm not demeaning myself again. If its Romney vs. Obama, I'll leave the goddamned thing blank. As consolation, Obama might completely lose his shit given another 4 years of being blocked by the house. That could be entertaining.

212 Point 1: Romney won the governorship of Mass. Point 2: Mass most recently elected a GOP Senator. Point 3: Romney has zero chance of carrying Mass in the general. Shouldn't this tell us something?

213 And while all but trolls here are bleeding heart motherfucking conservatives, most of the US isnt, and were dumb enough to vote Obama, so if Mitt can sucker them into voting for him, well thats great

214

Mostly, however, I'm pissed off that he is resorting to trying to scare granny about Scary Perry. It's cheap and most importantly it won't help us when guys like Ryan try to reform it.

Posted by: Y-not at September 22, 2011 07:03 PM (5H6zj)

What about Romney calling SS criminal in his book last year?  That is true right?  Has he changed his mind (like he does on everything)?   Or is it just ok to vaguely call something criminal but to specify the type of crime it is, is just wrong.

215 You nailed it. The real problem with our nation isn't Obama, it's the millions of people foolish enough to vote for him.

Posted by: Not Drinking Nearly Enough at September 22, 2011 07:03 PM (HtUdo)

Word. The approx. 20-30% of the ENTIRE population of the United States.

That number still leaves me dumbfounded.

216 I think Futurama had a bead on Romney/Perry a long time ago.

217 We won't have 4 years to fuck around. If Romney did get elected he would bail enough baggage to put the crash off a year or two. He does not have the balls to do what will need to be done. Besides that - he is a Mormon.

218 79/198 Ben - Likewise.  That's why Romney's still my third choice, assuming Bachmann doesn't further wreck her own campaign with amateurish stunts.  I don't like Perry on immigration (and like him even less on the issue after reading the Steve Camarota piece at NRO today), but he's clearly the best option in the present three-person contest.

219 >>But I know for a fact the media is digging into Romney's donors for campaign finance violations. Big donors whose family members and associates are getting called for opinions about the supposed scandal. So this idea that Romney, whom very few people seem to actually like (outside of LDS circles) on a personal level but who many find acceptable as a "safe" candidate, is going to survive that kind of scandal is laughable to me. Yea. Romney did the exact same thing that Perry did. Both had former advisors set up vehicles that allowed them to put big money in Super Pacs. And I never said scandals, I said things would come out about his cronyism that would put a lie to his super duper conservative cred. Why don't you do some searching into Bob (no relation) Perry. Why don't you ask how it is that poor dirt poor farm boy Perry became a multi-millionaire while he was a public servant. Why don't you check out his position on ethanol when he was Texas AG commissioner. I know, when Perry does a 180 its not a flip flop and when he supports the Texas Dream Act, yes thats the name of the bill, and calls people like Tom Trancredo and me racists when we say its bad policy thats no problem because he's Rick fucking Perry! But you keep hammering that LDS bullshit. Huckabee would be proud of you.

220 This here is a pretty good defense of Romney: Romney fought for a lot of things as governor including submitting a tax decrease 3 years in a row (defeated by the donk legislature), fought gay marriage up through the MA SC (lost), refused to sign off on the regional cap and trade boondoggle, and on and on and on. He actually got the MA legislature to come back into session and cut the budget he inherited after being elected to get a balanced budget and he managed to close a 3 trillion dollar hole without using government stimulus dollars to do it. . JackStaw ***** I definitely wouldn't have a problem voting for Romney in the general.

221 As I've been saying: ABO vote.

222 anyway, wife called and wants a lay, so I'll be cancelling my audience with the Pope too.

223 Mood Ring is McCain--same media strategy, same campaign strategy, everything.

He's a suck up to the media--just like McCain.
He tells the conservatives they need to moderate--just like McCain.
He refuses to attack any Democrat--just like McCain.
His harshest words have been for Republicans--just like McCain.
He is loved by the Northeast/Establishment GOP--just like McCain.
He uses a candidate with no chance (Huckabee/Bachmann) to run scorched Earth attacks on rivals--just like McCain.

He is McCain, without the experience, without the occasional conservative vote and without the mildly interesting military background. In short: He is all the bad qualities every conservative hated in McCain without any of the good.

Mood Ring is a recipe for disaster in November as he'll suppress the GOP base worse than McCain and will almost certainly invite a doomed third-party bid.

224

I really hope everyone here declaring they won't vote if Romney is the candidate is just grandstanding.

I dislike Romney. I make that known.

But I will vote for anyone who isn't Barack Obama. I'd vote for Paul, Tardisil, Cain, heck even Huntsman over Barack Obama.

Even with a Republican congress, Obama can still do damage through EOs and Supreme Court picks.  Also,  Obamacare is fully implemented in 2014. If we don't undo it before that time then it will never be undone. It will be with us until we collapse economically or until Xenu is reformed and makes us all pay for not converting to scientology, whichever comes first.

225 Why don't any of the other candidates bring up this stuff in the debates?

Posted by: 29Victor at September 22, 2011 07:07 PM (CoE4b)

How can they with one minute to answer a question?  The so-called debates have been jokes so far.

226 Romney was my guy in '08. Initially, anyhow. I was from Rhode Island and I was impressed with the job he did as governor of Mass. So I'm not constitutionally anti-Romney.

But now? A few years of seeing him operate...hoo, boy. I don't know.

227 I agree, ABO.

228 i have a ?

    Ok if we get stuck with someone we aren't really on board with but have voted in more conservatives in the house etc.. wouldn't those conservatives in senate and house  be able to hold who IS elected to some conservative principles?  Don't they all realize america is in deep and we need to climb out of economic catastrophie ?

229 237 I think Futurama had a bead on Romney/Perry a long time ago. ---- Obamacare doesn't go too far enough!

230 And if you don't get the Futurama reference, click this.

231 >>What about Romney calling SS criminal in his book last year? That is true right? Has he changed his mind (like he does on everything)? Or is it just ok to vaguely call something criminal but to specify the type of crime it is, is just wrong. He didn't. He said the way its being run is criminal and we should stop sending the people who are screwing it up to DC. Big difference. But Rick fucking Perry said it so it must be true!

232 209 People rightly criticize Palin for having accomplished nothing since the last election, but Romney has accomplished nothing either.

^Yes, that's another knock on him. 

233 I think Romney should challenge Obama in the Democratic primary. It's a better for for him.

234

That number still leaves me dumbfounded.

Posted by: ErikW at September 22, 2011 07:08 PM (iyQ4N)

 

You're welcome.

235 Also, why are people writing Perry off when he's only been in the race for a few weeks??

236

Word. The approx. 20-30% of the ENTIRE population of the United States.

That number still leaves me dumbfounded.

Posted by: ErikW at September 22, 2011 07:08 PM (iyQ4N)

Oh and I meant that as the total number of hardcore Progs who will never stray, not the real retards who bought into hope and change.

I think I'm the only person here who comments on his own comment.

Jeebus.

 

237 245 Ben, I draw the line at RONPAUL1111!!!!

238 I always found his "I will issue a waiver to everyone" claim to be just step-one in him going "Now that we have time we can modify Obamacare to actually work."

This x100.  I've found his choice of words regarding Bambicare odd.  Why the need for a waiver if it is repealed?  It's sneaky and says to me he wouldn't repeal...that he would refine it, make it better.  To which I say, f that. 

239 2012 is the biggest slam-dunk conservative election in history and I'm starting to feel like we're gonna fuck it up. God damn.

240 Because running something criminally is monumentally different than it being criminal.

241 Hard to believe they invited Gary Johnson and not McCotter.

242

>>>Mitt moved a blue state redder- Perry did the opposite.<<<

Texas is turning bluer because of all of the emigres from the blue states where there are no jobs.  Many of them are bringing their liberal ideologies with them (damn them all to Hell).

We're trying to turn 'em red, but it's a daily battle.....

243 Romney boldly opposes all those things that everybody hates!

244 EyeTest: "Okay, so he's not flashy or gimmicky. Is there something else that makes him a dud?"

I find him a bit strident as a social-con. Granted, I approve the overall sentiment of moving back to a more socially conservative as a culture - and maybe he's the guy who can do it - but there needs to be a balance of interests and motivation for national policy. Also, I'm agnostic, so I view him through that lens. Perhaps I'm being unfair, but he comes across to me as too reliant on religion though, more fairly, I don't equate him with Huckabee who I view as a fraud. IOW, I don't believe Santorum to be a Statist, just a religious conservative, unlike Huckabee who is a Statist hiding behind "compassionate conservatism."

Consider this my gut reaction to his presentation.

245 To be clear, I'm voting for whoever is running who isn't Barack Obama. I can say that now that Huck isn't in the race.

246 It may have been mentioned, but Drudge has noticed that Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Drudge links a story from RealClearPolitics noting that Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

247 _{Ok if we get stuck with someone we aren't really on board with but have voted in more conservatives in the house etc.. wouldn't those conservatives in senate and house  be able to hold who IS elected to some conservative principles?  Don't they all realize america is in deep and we need to climb out of economic catastrophie ?}

Yup. Congress, when it isn't porking interns and wasting money teaching Africans to wash their junk, can steer the country to the right.

Congress that helped Reagan destroy the USSR by backing his programs. Not always willingly, but they knew we loved Reagan and wouldn't stand for them selling out.
We just need them wide awake, conservative, and spine intact during a Republican Presidency.

Not ankle-biting, spending, and sabotaging like during Bush's second term.

248 2012 is the biggest slam-dunk conservative election in history and I'm starting to feel like we're gonna fuck it up.

God damn.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 22, 2011 07:15 PM (nRTou)

yeah it makes me a little wobbly  too.

i'm sure we all will get our heads out of our rears when the time comes.

well pretty sure.

249  Ok if we get stuck with someone we aren't really on board with but have voted in more conservatives in the house etc.. wouldn't those conservatives in senate and house  be able to hold who IS elected to some conservative principles?  Don't they all realize america is in deep and we need to climb out of economic catastrophie ?

Posted by: willow at September 22, 2011 07:12 PM (h+qn

 

I agree.  But.....you know how it is.

250   Don't they all realize america is in deep and we need to climb out of economic catastrophie ?

Instead of flooring it as we go over the cliff, Romney's going to kill the head lights and put it in neutral.

251 Sounds like JeffB and other Mittens supporters would have voted for Gerald Ford over Ronald Reagan in the primary.

252 What I see from the Romneybots isn't that he is a good candidate or good Republican. They are running solely on his perceived "electability".

I don't think he is any more electable than Perry. In fact I think he is more likely to shut down GOP turnout and do another McCain. Turn red states blue through low Republican turnout.

If Perry tanks in the end I guess I'll have to go back to Cain because Bachmann has shit in the well and dumped a dead pig in it.

Newt sat on the couch with Pelosi in support of the worst bill in the history of the country, called a really weak balance the budget plan social engineering because it went to far, and generally acted like a damn lying shit weasel to his ex-wife indicating very poor character.

The rest of them aren't even worthy of any consideration except maybe for Santorum who doesn't seem like he can get support from anyone.

Oh lest I forget Palin, she is not going to run and it appears she may want to shit in the well some here lately as well.

253

"That number still leaves me dumbfounded.

Posted by: ErikW at September 22, 2011 07:08 PM (iyQ4N) "

 

 

What should leave you dumbfounded is the next 30-40% that believes itself to be educated, street-smart, and up on current events yet are demonstrably illiterate regarding matters of history, basic economics,  philosophy, skepticism, logic, rhetoric and a grammar.  That's who the first 30% is listening to after all.  Who do you think's running the news desk?  (Any news desk.) 

 

 

 

254 272 Sounds like JeffB and other Mittens supporters would have voted for Gerald Ford over Ronald Reagan in the primary.

Posted by: Joffen at September 22, 2011 07:17 PM (EPcuy)

Jeff B. does support Perry.  Its just that he has a tail that you can pin to him and one of his friends is a bear that really like honey.

255 Texas is turning bluer because of all of the emigres from the blue states where there are no jobs.  Many of them are bringing their liberal ideologies with them (damn them all to Hell).

That's why Colorado went to shit.

256 Not ankle-biting, spending, and sabotaging like during Bush's second term.

Posted by: sifty at September 22, 2011 07:16 PM (4CSeG)

rigth so we just heckle them until they all stand up and do what's right.

I think they are starting to realise how piss'd everyone is. and how dangerous it is to play pork o-rama now.

257 Mitt moved a blue state redder

He did? I was not aware of that. Please explain your assertion.

258 260 2012 is the biggest slam-dunk conservative election in history and I'm starting to feel like we're gonna fuck it up.

Nah!

259

Romney fought for a lot of things as governor including submitting a tax decrease 3 years in a row (defeated by the donk legislature), fought gay marriage up through the MA SC (lost), refused to sign off on the regional cap and trade boondoggle, and on and on and on. He actually got the MA legislature to come back into session and cut the budget he inherited after being elected to get a balanced budget and he managed to close a 3 trillion dollar hole without using government stimulus dollars to do it. .

JackStaw

Well said.  He had to go against the tide in Massachusetts.  Perry on the other hand has had the luxury of governing in a deep red state.

I think it is beneficial to look more deeply into the specifics of Romney's tenure in Massachusetts.  It seems that for the most part he did what he could to temper the liberal impulses there.

260 2012 is the biggest slam-dunk conservative election in history and I'm starting to feel like we're gonna fuck it up. God damn. Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 22, 2011 07:15 PM ***** Yep. I might change my mind if tonight's debate only spends 5 minutes on Gardisal.

261

I really hope everyone here declaring they won't vote if Romney is the candidate is just grandstanding.

Posted by: Ben at September 22, 2011 07:11 PM (tEGzl)

Don't know about you Ben, but I live in NY, we're voting Zero no matter who the GOP nominates. I'd like to cast a vote for the GOP candidate, but if it's Romney I absolutely will not, I didn't trust him in '08 and I trust him less now.

Now if you're in a state that matters, you've got a much harder choice to make, but not me. No Romney, ever.

262 rdbrewer, McCotter dropped out today.  Endorsed Romney.

263

I agree.  But.....you know how it is.

Posted by: Speaker Boehner at September 22, 2011 07:17 PM (W8W07)

ok you got me.

still He is in the minority still right?

Instead of flooring it as we go over the cliff, Romney's going to kill the head lights and put it in neutral.

Posted by: Not Drinking Nearly Enough at September 22, 2011 07:17 PM (HtUdo)

ack, that's bleak .

264 @240
Well you're grasping at straws there, buddy, so I guess I understand your nic now. 

265 Vic, That Pelosi debacle aside, I feel like Newt "gets it", can articulate it and can sell it... and I'm starting to wonder if anyone else in this field is capable of that. Maybe I'm losing my mind. I don't know.

266 Somebody needs to tell Romney that you move to the mushy middle after the nomination, not during it. He's reeking more and more of RINO weasallyness by the week. He needs an enthusiastic base, not a McCain 2.0 base.

267 >>Because running something criminally is monumentally different than it being criminal. Yea, it is. A Ponzi scheme is illegal. Something unconstitutional is illegal. You don't fix illegal shit you end it. Romney was praising SS as a program but saying that the way politicians in DC are fucking it up is criminal. Now you can choose to agree with Romney that SS is a valuable program that needs to be fixed or not. But saying its a good program that needs to be fixed is not the same thing as saying its illegal. Thats what Perry did and he's been trying to run from his words since the day he entered the race. His own campaign manager has said that it was a look back and shouldn't be seen as what Perry believes now. The book is less than a year old. I understand why you Perry supporters don't like Perry's own words being used against him. I'm sick to death of hearing about Romneycare but I don't see any of you backing down nor Perry himself. Politics is tough at this level and candidates entire records are fair game. Romney hasn't lied about Perry but Perry seems to be massaging Romney's words to fit his agenda.

268 This is exactly my beef.  Romney would be much more poll-driven, and therefore more reluctant to make the sort of transformative changes that are absolutely necessary at this point. 

269 Get ready to talk the eeyores off the cliff after the debate. They actually think people watch..

270

I'm trying to figure out why it is a bad thing to vote for a 3 time governor from a deep red state vs a one time governor from a deep blue state.

271 Obama has shown that liberal ideas have failed. We have a perfect chance to elect someone that will remind Americans that conservative ideas work. Do we really want to elect someone who believes only some liberal ideas work?

272 2012 is the biggest slam-dunk conservative election in history and I'm starting to feel like we're gonna fuck it up.

God damn.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 22, 2011 07:15 PM (nRTou)

 

Nah, we'll be okay. There is a long time to go yet and the field will continue to narrow itself and condense their positions. Besides, Obama is REALLY starting to lose it and that's not a trend that's going to reverse.

 

273 rigth so we just heckle them until they all stand up and do what's right.

Every Republican politician should be afraid of losing their job.
In fact, we should make them so accountable and nervous they consider how much they want the job every election cycle.

274 You people are almost as bad as the 0bamatrons that voted this pinko in office in the first place. There is NO messiah, no "perfect" candidate; and if you think Christie or Ryan have a shot down south you're dreamin'.

Posted by: A Pissed off Texan at September 22, 2011 07:06 PM (g86v0

 

Can you clarify for me if the Tea Party is now actively seeking signatures on a petition to force Perry to deal with his broken borders?

275 Maybe I'm losing my mind. I don't know. Your sudden lust for Newt?

276 "Mama always said life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

277

So Mitt the cow-flop fought regional cap and trade??? Bull Shit, he was its biggest supporter.

And club for growth gives him at best a mixed record on taxes in MA.

278

227 Jeff B - That's why the NRO Camarota stuff today hit me in the gut.  Perry's the best candidate we have going but if the Texas Recovery has an Achilles' heel re: who got the jobs, his general electability could be more dicey than we've been assuming.   If newly-arrived immigrants (legal and illegal) have arguably taken the lion's share of even skilled new jobs in Texas, that at least requires explanation and discussion, if not course-correction.

The best thing Perry could do to get ahead of this (apparent) problem is to throw the doubters some substantive policy red meat about how President Perry will deal with immigration, both legal and illegal.

I've said it before here - we need a field of candidates as wide as possible because the media savaging hasn't even started and we've already got some holes to plug.  There's still time, for all that I haven't heard of any real heavyweights still waiting in the wings.

279 Romney has always been a shape-shifter, - like a womanizing Bill Clinton but without the libido.

280

Romney hasn't lied about Perry

 

Bullshit. Romney has been telling grandma that Perry is going to take away her check since the day Perry announced.

281 yes indeed!

282 221

Because he's a fucking asshole.

Posted by: wooga at September 22, 2011 07:03 PM (vjyZP)

'Splain, please?

Posted by: EyeTest at September 22, 2011 07:05 PM (ReC4P)

--

Let's see. Aside from his creepy obsession with SSM, he has a habit of dismissing anyone who disagrees with him as stupid.  For example, he said John McCain "doesn't understand how enhanced interrogation works."  Seriously, John fucking McCain, with the broken arms.  As to Perry's support of Israel, Santorum sneered: "IÂ’ve forgotten more about Israel than Rick Perry knows about Israel."  But my main problem is that Santorum rejects Federalism and explicitly rejects the Tenth Amendment, as he thinks "moral law" should trump (just google "Santorum Tenth Amendment").

283 Your sudden lust for Newt? ----- Yeah, it's sort of like dating a stripper. I know it's a terrible idea, but I just can't help myself.

284  Texas is turning bluer because of all of the emigres from the blue states where there are no jobs.  Many of them are bringing their liberal ideologies with them (damn them all to Hell).

That's why Colorado went to shit.

Posted by: Not Drinking Nearly Enough at September 22, 2011 07:18 PM (HtUdo)

 

Huh?  So it's not just illegal immigrants working in TX?  (Even though I'm inclined believe that anyone from CA is an illegal immigrant)

285 Can you clarify for me if the Tea Party is now actively seeking signatures on a petition to force Perry to deal with his broken borders?

Can you explain why Mitt supported McCain-Kennedy amnesty? and BTW, Perry has screamed for the feds to close the border for years and did not support amnesty.

286 That's who the first 30% is listening to after all.  Who do you think's running the news desk?  (Any news desk.) 

 Posted by: Singyn Somewhere at September 22, 2011 07:18 PM (NBj0d)

 

Oh, I know. I used to work with them. My neck hurt from shaking my head all the time.

Thankfully, I work in sports now so that isn't a problem anymore.

287 2692012 is the biggest slam-dunk conservative election in history and I'm starting to feel like we're gonna fuck it up.

God damn.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 22, 2011 07:15 PM (nRTou)

 

Doesn't matter who we nominate.  We'll win handily.  Where we'll lose is in getting the primary wrong - and electing our own version of Obama.  No one should get the warm and fuzzies over any of these candidates.  Doesn't matter who it is - let them know we're staring at them with the same dead-eye we're looking at the current dick in the oval office with, (may he rot in the fleshy long unwashed folds of the first pigs ass-fat.)  Don't let any of them get comfortable.  Particularly the 2010 and 2012 freshman.  Just keep pouring it on every 2 years.  That's how we change this thing long term.  That's the only way.  'We the people' have no friends in DC, just enemies we'll allow to live (politically speaking) so long as they remain useful to us. 

288 Two strong candidates, both of whom can clean Obama's clock and either of whom would be light years better than him in every possible way, and we're going to make sure before we're through to gin up enough hysterical lies and misrepresentations that each is toxic to one half of the base or the other.

Yeah, we're still the Stupid Party.

289 Politics is tough at this level and candidates entire records are fair game. Romney hasn't lied about Perry but Perry seems to be massaging Romney's words to fit his agenda.

Look, Romney is a weasel. End of story.

Is he better than the SCFOAMF? Yeah, but who on the Republican side isn't?

I'll pull the lever for Mittens if I have to, but don't serve me bullshit and tell me it's filet mignon.

290 meh, we need to remember though that there is no political capital in repealing O-care. If all goes according to plan (i.e., Obama maintains his role as SCOAMFINC), then Nov 2012 will be a landslide. If we choose Mittens, he'll be swept into doing it. And I think that he'll have tasted the full force of the media turn and spit, so the epic battle of repealing O-care (i.e., media outlash) will not be that keenly felt. Remember, the end of union thug perks and other liberal goals and dreams will not be quiet.

291 Another problem with Romney is the Mormon thing.I think it hurt him in 08 and it would hurt him in 12.I don't think it should but it is just an unfortunate fact.

292 I won't vote for Mittens in the primary, but if he's the nominee, I'll hold my nose and vote for him just to get the SCOAMF out of office. Hell, I'd vote for just about anyone to do that.

293 Romney is a joke, he'll state any position to get elected then change that position when convenient. He's for government run health care, pro gun control, pro "climate change", and thinks Social Security is a criminal enterprise and demagogues Perry when he says the same. What's to like?

294 314 Yes.Absolutely.

295 and BTW, Perry has screamed for the feds to close the border for years and did not support amnesty.

He reiterated this last night on Hannity as well.  He's repeatedly stated the failure of the federal gov't to close the damned border.  He said he does not support amnesty or citizenship for illegals. 

296

2012 is the biggest slam-dunk conservative election in history and I'm starting to feel like we're gonna fuck it up.

I'd like the first part of that to be true, but I doubt it.  Is Obama unpopular? Yes, but remember that al portion of those dissatisfied with him are Dennis Kucinich liberals who think he's a wuss.  They'll hold their nose and vote for him in the general. 

People are likening this election to the one of 1980, but that comparison is flawed.  The demographics of this country have changed a great deal since then, which is due in great part to illegal immigration.  I still believe that a Reagan vs. Carter race in 2012 would result in a Reagan victory, but it would be much closer, and nobody in this race is in the same league as Ronald Reagan.

297 Romney has always been a shape-shifter, - like a womanizing Bill Clinton but without the libido.

Mitt is Bill Clinton 2.0.

You'll see.

Perry needs to ease up on pandering to Hispanics.
He needs to destroy this insane lady who keeps biting his ankles.
And he needs to draw out the Democrat in Mitt Romney that Mitt has been trying to hide.

Then he needs to make Obama cry and piss his pants.

298 Why should I support Mitt Romney?

299 Ace, I think you're missing the reality of the situation. It would take extreme political courage, and in fact it would be insane, for Mitt to *not* do everything possible to repeal ObamaCare. It's not popular with the general public, and an already-skeptical base would throw him under the bus in about two seconds if he even slightly hesitated on the issue. From President Romney's perspective, the 40% of the country that is liberal will never approve of him, the 20% in the middle generally opposes ObamaCare, and to piss off the 40% that is your base is a surefire way to have a 25% approval rating and one-term.

300 Haven't had time to read all entries, but Ace sure sounds down that Perry does not have this in the bag already. It's only been 3-4 weeks since he joined the "circus." Romney has been running for 4-5 years and people at least know his name. Perry is still unknown to most people. I think he is doing pretty good in the polls considering... Perry is not going to back down on what he believes. Agree or disagree with him, he is solid in what he believes. Romney is going to regret some of his recent comments soon. I am really disliking Romney a little more and more with his SS tirades. Hoping Perry does well tonight!

301 In 2005, Mr. Mittens tried to organize a cap and trade scam for the northeastern states. He admitted that it would destroy a whole sector of the economy...and all the jobs associated with it.

...but not to worry, because he said they would be made up with green jobs...and that we should invest heavily in these industries.

OK..with this and healthcare, how the fuck is he any different from Obama?

Oh yeah...about the investing in green energy.??...how did Mittens make his money again??

302 We don't need milquetoast we need a strong candidate. We need someone who can remind America that government is the problem. Mittens doesn't believe that. He believes that government can be run better. He will cave to the Dems and has said he will compromise with them while running!

303 Why should I support Mitt Romney?

Because he's not the SCFOAMF.

304 KG: "Also, why are people writing Perry off when he's only been in the race for a few weeks??"

Because that's what we do. We are paid to produce and nothing produces like conflict. We like to build people up and then tear them down. We enjoy trying to control the environment. We compete for audience share and make prediction after prediction hoping to be right so that we can say, "See, I was right! Now hire me to give you another opinion!"

In other words, we're a bunch of assholes relieving lots of hot air... for money.

305

Why should I support Mitt Romney?

You shouldn't, unless he's the nominee.

Because the SCoaMF is that bad.

306 248I agree, ABO.

Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at September 22, 2011 07:12 PM (ACkhT)

No!  I argee ABO!!!!

307 Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at September 22, 2011 07:24 PM (MH77M)

Yes, that 81% thing is going to haunt Perry, even tho it is employers making the conscious decision to not hire Americans. Not sure what he can really do about it tho.

308 Mitt moved a blue state redder

He did? I was not aware of that. Please explain your assertion.

Just so ErikW doesn't feel so alone, I'll respond to my own comment, also.

The hit 'n' run poster won't be back to explain his incorrect assertion. I'll explain:

Mitt Romney turned Massachusetts bluer. I repeat, Romney turned Massachusetts bluer. The Governor's office had been held by a Republican from 1991 until Mitt left. He did nothing to help grow the party locally. The (R) caucus did not grow in his tenure, in fact it took a serious beating in Nov 2008.

In the words of the candidate I worked for in '10:

"Mitt is all about Mitt"

309 If michele so much as hints at Gardisil, Perry should turn to her and ask her why she took donations from GlaxoSmithKline.

310 324 Caretaker foir the welfare state and we can't afford that anymore.

311 oh well, the debates will still be interesting then. I hope the red on red debate environment will produce real questions that will satiate the real conservatives out there. And not just us concerned catholic conservatives who are ready to bolt to support Obama if any GOP candidate dares to do anything remotely controversial, that being anything that would coincidentally be upsetting to a liberal.

312

310 War - we're not just talking about lies and misrepresentations.  What is Ace making up about Romney's record ?  I support Perry and I'll be the first to admit that he's done the typical border-state-politician pander regarding Mexican immigration from his first days in office.

Yes, both of them are vastly superior to the Worst President Ever.  The Republican nominee will get my vote in 2012.  But that doesn't mean they are flawless or that their critics are liars.

313 No, he will not repeal Obamacare.  It is clear to me that he won't.  No principles.  None.  Just an ambitious pol, seeking adulation.

His vocal delivery is too quick, his technique is to always turn it back to how well he can manage, because, as we all know, he once managed something or other.

I predict he will prevail over Perry tonight, though, because Perry just doesn't seem to get across the Red River on issues, and also because he does not have the mental heft to debate well.

Am greatly disappointed in all of them.  Woe is us, because the JEF's campaign is going to mow everyone down, with the able assistance of the MFM.

We may hate the sound of Zero's voice, but you got to admit, he can give a full-throated William-Jennings-Bryan-type barnstorming speech, rousing the rabble, while getting his base to burn with a white-hot fever for winning.

Who do we have that can counter that?

314 121 Are we swinging back Mitt? I thought it was a Perry place?

Posted by: USS Diversity at September 22, 2011 06:49 PM (aD5Kx)

 

No, this is an *insert bandwagon here* place.

315

Mitch Ronny?  Opportunist.  Good manager. 

His chauffeur says he's a regular guy.

316 **We may hate the sound of Zero's voice, but you got to admit, he can give a full-throated William-Jennings-Bryan-type barnstorming speech, rousing the rabble, while getting his base to burn with a white-hot fever for winning** um.... where to start, um: if you say so?

317 >>So Mitt the cow-flop fought regional cap and trade??? Bull Shit, he was its biggest supporter. Bullshit. Just like Sarah Palin, he supported setting up a group to look at the cap and trade shit and when the results came back he refused to sign it and got vilified by the greens in the legislature. After he did the governor of RI, who was also a Republican, followed behind him. I've heard a lot of people say well Romney can't carry MA. Well no shit, he fought the liberals in this state daily, you think he's a hero here? Nobody yet has been able to explain why Perry is underwater in Texas and only barely beating Obama there after trailing him.

318 Mitt's valet helps him put his pants on one leg at a time....

319

but you got to admit, he can give a full-throated William-Jennings-Bryan-type barnstorming speech, rousing the rabble, while getting his base to burn with a white-hot fever for winning

 

He hasn't been able to do that for a long, long time. The best he can hope for now is that everyone stays awake.

320

_{Mitch Ronny?  Opportunist.  Good manager.} 

_{His chauffeur says he's a regular guy.}

What the hell do you know about Massachusetts politics, anyway? ;--)

321 On the local radio this morning, the host was saying that while the south is alright with Perry, the north isn't.  Northern morons, how are y'all feeling it up there?  Is the talk that Perry is another Bush or pushing Mittens instead?

322 Yeah, it's sort of like dating a stripper. I know it's a terrible idea, but I just can't help myself. I don't know... it could be more like reminiscing about your first girlfriend and wanting to go back to a simpler time...when the economy didn't SUCK. Something like that. Still old political campaigner friend of mine always points out that Newt never even won a statewide election. That he should have went for the Georgia senate and/or governor. Something about a member of the House has never won the Presidency...(I haven't done the research on that-sounds good...) This same guy is pissed as hell that Paul Ryan passed on the Wisconsin senate seat.....for the same reasons.

323 I have two business acquaintances who moved their manufacturing out of Mass to SC because of the anti-business atmosphere there. RomneyCare was the straw that broke the proverbial camels's back.

Between the two of them, they took 200+ jobs with them

324 Romney's chauffeur says he's a regular guy?

325 My biggest problem with Perry is that I consistently feel that I could better articulate his positions (or explanations of the reasons he had to take these positions) better than he can, and I have absolutely no business feeling this way.

326 If Perry sucks tonight he needs to go all out and get crowds riled up. I think he'll do fine. He needs to make Mittens cry and hit him hard on Romneycare. Mittens needs to be seen defending that crap over and over again.

327 So the guy who spent the vast bulk of his career in the private sector before being shanghaied by Huckabee and Mccain (political lifers) in 2008 is now the "Establishment" guy? Amusing how readily people mold history to fit their current mood.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 22, 2011 06:51 PM (Qjh0I)

Did Mitt sign that assault weapons ban or veto it? I can't remember. Did Mitt sign that health care bill and enact it into law or did he veto it? I can't remember. Did I see Mitt in Vietnam or did he find something else that was more important? I can't remember.

Help me out will you?

328

What the hell do you know about Massachusetts politics, anyway? ;--)

I know Sal DiMasi is a scumbag.  ;-)

Actually if any of you remember Dean Barnett (Soxblog) he was Romney's driver during his gubernatorial campaign, and he used to say Romney was a regular guy.

329 I have voted for the Republican in every Presidential election in my adult life. I will not vote for Romney if he is the Republican candidate.

330 Ok ill say it. Save obi wan palin

331 According to the Boston Globe:

Governor Mitt Romney signaled his support yesterday for a regional agreement among Northeastern states to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, despite opposition from power companies and other business interests that have been lobbying the administration against the plan.

In opening remarks to a clean-energy conference in Boston, Romney said the first-of-its-kind agreement, under which Massachusetts and eight other states could be required to cut power plant emissions by 2020, will not hurt the economy, as some have charged. He argued that it would spur businesses to develop clean- and renewable-energy technology to market worldwide.

''This is a great thing for the Commonwealth," Romney said, his strongest endorsement of the pact to date. ''We can effectively create incentives to help stimulate a sector of the economy and at the same time not kill jobs."

[...]

''I'm convinced it is good business," Romney said. [Boston Globe, 11/8/05

332 27 It's pretty clear to anyone who cares to look. Romney vetoed the "Health Care Reform" in MA more than a dozen times, while Rick "The Stick" Perry tried to use his Executive power to force injections. Who loves big gubmint?

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 22, 2011 06:34 PM (Qjh0I)

 

Um, actually, Mittens vetoed 8 sections of the legislation, and the Democrats overrode 6 of the 8.  Oh, and also, not to be outdone by the Democrats, whose plan was to cover half of the unisured, it was Mittens' idea to cover all the unisured.  Yep.

I cared to look.

333

I'm not worried what Republican wins the WH. Based on the strength of gaining more Tea Party members in the Congress and Senate we will have started reversing the direction of the Pendulum of Doom!

334 Rather Than Rommey, wouldn't we be a little better off with 4 more of BO? Those who voted for him deserve another 4 and he would drive this country so far down, that even the marxist libs would have second thoughts about putting a social worker in the white house. Also 4 of BO would be 4 of gridlock, which simply means fewer rights being grabbed by the govt. A good thing!

335

I have voted for the Republican in every Presidential election in my adult life. I will not vote for Romney if he is the Republican candidate.

So you're voting for Obama? Because you will be.

336 Mittens and Barry are both vastly experienced at one thing: campaigning for elected office. Hell, both of them have been running non-stop for president since 2007. Main difference is Obama has a much better winning record.

Edge: Barry.

337 Posted by: Gabriel Syme

So you'd stick it out with Zero?

338
What are the odds he'll prosecute anyone for Operation Fast and Furious? I'm guessing zero.

r0mney 20never

339 351 Sorry,I do not understand that point of view.

340

Are we swinging back Mitt? I thought it was a Perry place?

More than anything else, it's an Obama is a....well you know.

 

 

 

341 351 I have voted for the Republican in every Presidential election in my adult life. I will not vote for Romney if he is the Republican candidate. ------------------------------------- I'm with you. I think he would hurt the conservative brand and set us back. He's Obama-Lite. In the long run the country would be better off running Rubio in 2016.

342 Damnit people! The objective is take Obama out! I don't care how we do it-if we have to do a pincher movement with nancy pants so be it! Or we could go full force straight up their middle . Either way we gotta get this done. Damn it people- after the fratricide we got to mop up, shore up-and ship out! Anyone going third party is getting mowed over!

343 @319

I hereby nominate sifty for Perry campaign strategist! 

344 @347 My biggest problem with Perry is that I consistently feel that I could better articulate his positions (or explanations of the reasons he had to take these positions) better than he can, and I have absolutely no business feeling this way.

Great minds think alike..lol.. I want him to say what I'm [or other conservatives] are thinking, but he doesn't quite get there.

345 omg

346 Ok ill say it. Save obi wan palin
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 22, 2011 07:40 PM

She's our only hope.

347 Having spent the bulk of my life in MA, including every day of the Romney Admistration, I can assure those who care to listen that he's not nearly the ridiculous caricature presented by the purists.

348 Y-not,
+1

349 I've heard a lot of people say well Romney can't carry MA. Well no shit, he fought the liberals in this state daily, you think he's a hero here? Nobody yet has been able to explain why Perry is underwater in Texas and only barely beating Obama there after trailing him.

As hard as he "fought" the liberals in MA, how many times did he allow a state government shutdown rather than come to an amicable compromise with those same liberals?

Not once?  He's the go-along, get-along type who'll negotiate the best deal he can but only up to the point that there's no potential political risk involved?  You don't say.

350

329 KG - I wouldn't suggest he lead with the truth on that one - that employers find immigrants have a better work ethic, are more appreciative and "coachable" than Americans, more likely to work longer hours, take fewer days off, etc... 

Immigration policy's not a deal breaker for me re: Perry, but a) I'm in the whitest of white collar jobs and b) I remember my blue-collar father eating up what Boss Ross was selling on the "sucking noise" back in '92 and helping elect Bubba by voting for Perot despite Dad having nothing but contempt for Clinton.

It's a serious issue to many, if not so much for me than for many others, and I want to see Perry deal with it forthrightly.  While it may be advantageous to speak generally and carry a vague stick as long as possible, at this point Romney needs to repudiate RomneyCare in an unequivocal fashion and Perry needs to show us that his immigration policy has some priorties above winning the Hispanic vote.

351 Romney is a useless piece of shit and a SCOAMF in his own right, and he's no more a conservative than Jerry Brown is.

 if the GOP allows the MFM and the talking heads to maneuver him into being our candidate in 2012, we will pretty much deserve the four more years of the original SCOAMF we will get because of it.

352 366 In his defense,he is new to the race.He better start picking it up though.I think he will.

353 Fucking fantastic article, Ace.  Thanks.

354 as i've always said.. (heh)

we need Newts verbal responses in Perry's mouth.

355 351 Sorry,I do not understand that point of view.

If Romney is Obama-lite, then what's the point?

Convince me Romeny's a conservative. Please, I'm begging you.

Seriously, convince me to vote for this guy, because other than a vote against Obama, I just don't see it.

356

I'm with you. I think he would hurt the conservative brand and set us back. He's Obama-Lite. In the long run the country would be better off running Rubio in 2016.

After two or three Abbie Hoffmans are confirmed to the Supreme Court and the permanent institution of Obamacare, what will it matter by then?

357 or verbal agility.

358 >>''I'm convinced it is good business," Romney said. [Boston Globe, 11/8/05 And yet when the final plan came to his desk he refused to sign it because he said it would kill jobs.

359 23 ...Santorum, Huntsman, Paul and Johnson are useless.

Huntsman is worse than useless.

360 I have voted for the Republican in every Presidential election in my adult life. I will not vote for Romney if he is the Republican candidate.

Posted by: Gabriel Syme at September 22, 2011 07:39 PM (iA0UK)

 

Oh hell to the no. Like someone mentioned earlier, I'd vote for Ron Paul before I voted for this anti-American prick.

361 >>>Jeff B. does support Perry.  Its just that he has a tail that you can pin to him and one of his friends is a bear that really like honey.

Ha.  This actually sounds about right, buzzion.  I'm a bit of an Eeyore, aren't I?

362 Having spent the bulk of my life in MA, including every day of the Romney Admistration, I can assure those who care to listen that he's not nearly the ridiculous caricature presented by the purists.

You're right if you're referring to the "Romney = Obama" nonsense, but it was Romney v2.0 that served as MA governor.  It's Romney v4.0 that is running now.

The problem many of us have is that we have no way of knowing how many bugs end up in Romney v5.0.

363 If Romney is the nominee, the best thing then would be to have solid fiscal, constitutional  conservatives in the House and Senate. Romney gets to be the RINO that he is, and the Congress can start reigning in all agencies, even cutting some, and Romney will held to account if he wants to veer too left.

364 Oh Lord, the Republican Party is going to rescue Obama from himself.  Can't we have some adult supervision in this race?

365 On the local radio this morning, the host was saying that while the south is alright with Perry, the north isn't. Northern morons, how are y'all feeling it up there? Is the talk that Perry is another Bush or pushing Mittens instead?

Posted by: dogfish at September 22, 2011 07:37 PM (N2yhW

We TP'ers are universal in principle. I get good response on Perry posts from friends on FB . I live in NJ.   How is Perry on immigration there. I see where the TP is petioning him to get busy in it!

366 If you dislike BHO, wait if Romney gets elected. He's supposedly on your side but still acts like BHO "Hi, I'm Big Gov'ment Romney and I approve this message"

367 After two or three Abbie Hoffmans are confirmed to the Supreme Court and the permanent institution of Obamacare, what will it matter by then?

Then stack the court and FDR their asses. I'm up for 13 supreme court justices, with the new additions all appointed by President Rubio.

368 SFGoth, to late to ask for mom  : P

369

"Seriously, convince me to vote for this guy, because other than a vote against Obama, I just don't see it."

Well, Romney's a conservative compared to Barry.

370

I will vote for whoever wins the GOP primary.

I had FOX on just now. News bulletin: Shep just made fun of Barky's "pass that bill" speechifying today, mocking him. It also showed the clip (linked to Drudge) when Zero stutters, "I,I,I,I,I am a warrior for the middle class." It was pretty funny, both Shep's mocking and then this clip. When the preznit loses Chrissy Matthews it is ovah.

Seriously, JEF sounded like Woody Woodpecker when he stuttered on that clip. He still jogged up to the podium like the rock star he thinks he is in the legacy of his narcissistic mind(and, man, he is tiny these days).

371 JeffB: Honest question. Do you think Romney would make a better President than Perry? If so, why?

372 Serious question, would Romney put someone like Roberts on the court or someone like Kennedy?

373 But whatever work the Center on Climate Change and National Security has done remains secret.

In response to National Security Archive scholar Jeffrey Richelson’s Freedom of Information Act request, the CIA said all of its work is “classified.”

“We completed a thorough search for records responsive to your request and located material that we determined is currently and properly classified and must be denied in its entirety,” Susan Viscuso, the agency’s information and privacy coordinator, wrote Richelson.

374

1.  Santorum.  No executive experience, too assertive about his extreme positions.  He sounds like someone who is running to push the Overton Window, not to actually make it.

2.  Dr. Spank asks why he should support Romney?  Short answer, he shouldn't.  Most of the knocks on Romney are legit knocks.  Reject the fallacy that at least one candidate must be a pretty darn good candidate.

3.  Someone tries to defend Perry on immigration because Perry said that he was against an amnesty.  Umm, yeah, everyone says that they're against it.  Except that Perry favors a 'path to legalization,' which is . . . an amnesty.  Perry suggested that people opposed to the Dream Act were racists, which shows where his head is on this (hint: in Dem territory).  This recent article says a lot:

http://tinyurl.com/3rqfuxm

Numbers USA continues to rank him a D-.

375 Hollowpoint:
 I know, that's why I suggest people read Romney's books and look at his actual accomplishments. His character and core beliefs are evident. The problem with being a man who made his way in the private sector is that only four years of his career have been "for public consumption". Gives the peanut gallery lots of room to make up shit.

376 And yet when the final plan came to his desk he refused to sign it because he said it would kill jobs it would hurt his plans for the upcoming 2008 campaign.

Fixed for accuracy.

377 Just like Sarah Palin, he supported setting up a group to look at the cap and trade shit and when the results came back he refused to sign it and got vilified by the greens in the legislature.

I guess you can't read either.

As governor of Massachusetts, Romney supported a carbon-trading pact among Northeastern states that, like his health care bill, served as a potential model for a national version. Romney even said of the plan, “I am convinced it is good for business.” Of carbon emissions in general, Romney said, “These carbon-emissions limits will provide real and immediate progress.”

http://is.gd/CKhQ5O

378 Well, Romney's a conservative compared to Barry.

Joe Biden is a conservative compared to Barry.

379 it's gonna be mittens embrace the mitt

380 383I have voted for the Republican in every Presidential election in my adult life. I will not vote for Romney if he is the Republican candidate.

Posted by: Gabriel Syme at September 22, 2011 07:39 PM (iA0UK

Its ABO or go around here these days mister.

381 379 After two or three Abbie Hoffmans are confirmed to the Supreme Court and the permanent institution of Obamacare, what will it matter by then? -------------------------------------------------- I'm not convinced Romney would appoint conservative Supreme Court justices. He used to be pro-choice before flip flopping.

382

386 John - That's why I can live with voting for Mitt, despite the fact he's another McCain in my book.  If we have majorities in the House and Senate, there's no carrot for him worth crossing the base to reach across the aisle.

383 Anyone not voting is getting shipped to Canada-ASAP. You bunch of Commie bastards!

384

Serious question, would Romney put someone like Roberts on the court or someone like Kennedy?

Yeah that's a tough one, however I'll take Kennedy over any of the people Obama nomintated.

I know its a pathetic statement but it's true.

385

Repealing ObamaCare is my single biggest issue in this election, followed by removing the regulatory environment Obama enacted while no one was watching.  Entitlement reform is third on my list if we are ever going to bring this country back to basics.

I already distrust Romney on the health care plan.  His view on SS and the need to get along with the Dems I find appalling.  He is losing any support I may ever have been able to muster.

Seriously, in a choice between Romney and the SCOAMF, I vote for SCOAMF because they are both FAILS.  I prefer the enemy that I (and my elected representatives) know to oppose to the one that talks kinda sorta like I want him to but then does the wrong thing. 

I have that now, but it is expected.

386  I know, that's why I suggest people read Romney's books

I'm not reading his fucking book. He needs to publicly state his positions. Period.

387

Except that Perry favors a 'path to legalization,' which is . . . an amnesty. 

 

No. Perry's exact quote on that is "there already is a path to legalization" get in line.

388 I was a huge fan of Justice David Souter

389 it's gonna be mittens
embrace the mitt

Mitt or GTFO!

390 @402
Too early to say that, I think. 


BTW, chemjeff, do you like sushi?  I ask because the other day I had to kill time in Salt Lake while hubby was at a work function so I took myself to a sushi bar near the convention center.  Lots of singles sitting at the bar and chatting.  And they were mostly professionals from what I could tell.  (Not hookers, engineers and such.) So you might have better luck meeting folks you'd like at that type of place. 

391 GOP Primary Breakdown: Contenders - Perry, Romney Entertaining - Newt, Cain, Johnson Useless - Huntsman, Santorum Damaging - Bachmann, Paul

392 395 Even a "Kennedy" is better than a Sotomayor,no?

393

I'm not convinced Romney would appoint conservative Supreme Court justices. He used to be pro-choice before flip flopping.

This is one of the few things Romney would be good at.  He's plugged into high-level conservative legal circles and given his background knows the importance of good judges who are very, very bright.  No Souters, Meyers, Kennedy, or Gonzalez from him.  I expect he'd make some pretty savvy judge picks.

394 >>The problem many of us have is that we have no way of knowing how many bugs end up in Romney v5.0. Fair enough. But how about you spend some time digging through Perry's actual record, the wind energy boondoogle which is the biggest in the country and about to cost Texans billions in higher energy costs, his business tax increases, the fact that Texas has an 8.5% unemployment rate, highest in 25 years and actually lost jobs in August, his entire record on illegals not just the in-state tuition stuff, his very cozy relationship with people like the home building lobby in Texas and on and on and on. Perry has a very long record including some flip of his own on things like ethanol and farm subsidies. Yet most here just give him a pass and say well he's still a True Conservative. And his record was compiled in one of the most conservative states in the Union where he got to do pretty much what he wanted. They are all politicians. I don't love any of them. But the way Perry gets lionized and Romney gets caricatured here is dumb.

395 >>>Two strong candidates, both of whom can clean Obama's clock and either of whom would be light years better than him in every possible way, and we're going to make sure before we're through to gin up enough hysterical lies and misrepresentations that each is toxic to one half of the base or the other.

>>>Yeah, we're still the Stupid Party.

Co-signed. 

396

I know, that's why I suggest people read Romney's books

that's the star wars argument.  You need to read the books to understand what's going on in the Phantom Menance.

No, put it in the fucking movie.

Or in this case, state it on the campaign trail or in the debates.

397 416 I'm not convinced Romney would appoint conservative Supreme Court justices. He used to be pro-choice before flip flopping. This is one of the few things Romney would be good at. He's plugged into high-level conservative legal circles and given his background knows the importance of good judges who are very, very bright. No Souters, Meyers, Kennedy, or Gonzalez from him. I expect he'd make some pretty savvy judge picks. ------------------------------------------ It's his lack of conviction that I find distressing.

398

Well, since you eeyores need to commiserate with each other, don't forget.

John Fucking Bolton is still in play and chomping at the bit.

399 Mitt Romney once picked his own apple out of a real tree. Outside.

400

I'm with you. I think he would hurt the conservative brand and set us back. He's Obama-Lite. In the long run the country would be better off running Rubio in 2016.

Posted by: John at September 22, 2011 07:42 PM (HmTk

OMG What long run? when O's policies on taxation,O Care and  EPA regulations kick in 2013 its over dude.

401

Even a "Kennedy" is better than a Sotomayor,no?

Eh, as long as a liberal is being replaced, I would say it doesn't much matter if we got a Sotomayor or a Kennedy. The balance doesn't changed. However another Roberts would be a HUGE game changer in that situation.

402 Having spent the bulk of my life in MA, including every day of the Romney Admistration,

Hey, me too!

I can assure those who care to listen that he's not nearly the ridiculous caricature presented by the purists.

I can't see what he brings, besides RomneyCare and a 'green energy' fetish. I'll vote for him in November, as I will for Scott Brown, but neither a showing me a reason to work for them.

403 John Fucking Bolton is still in play and chomping at the bit

Is he?  I thought he took himself out of play a few weeks ago.  Maybe I'm misremembering that. 

404

<sub>I know, that's why I suggest people read Romney's books

that's the star wars argument.  You need to read the books to understand what's going on in the Phantom Menance.</sub>

_{No, put it in the fucking movie.}

_{Or in this case, state it on the campaign trail or in the debates.}

If I have to read their mind, they're fired.

405

I just noticed that this debate is in florida. Get ready for SS scaremongering that would make the democrats blush.

406

399/408 :  We've let politicians get away with "read my website" or "read my book" too much, IMO.  You don't need to be Reagan behind a podium, but being able to at least articulate your core beliefs shows me that you in fact wrote your book/website, or at least know what's there.

I'm always waiting for the follow-up questions that verify whether the candidate knows what the book or website says, but they don't usually follow.

Plus, guys like Romney have taken so many positions and/or written so many books (that's you, Newt) in the past that it's impossible to nail them down even if you've read everything they've ever written or said.

The ability to take questions in an adversarial setting and defend your ideas against attack lends them credibility than setting them out in a softball-pitch setting with your hired sycophantic ghost writers.

407 John Fucking Bolton is still in play and chomping at the bit

I heard today that he is advising Perry.

408

the wind energy boondoogle which is the biggest in the country and about to cost Texans billions in higher energy costs

That really is a massive and stupid program, but I don't think you can really blame Perry for it.  It was mainly the Texas legislature that pushed that, right?  Besides, as dumb and costly as it is and will be, it might actually play well with independents, who are also pretty dumb.

409 Good for you, Not Drinking. Don't let the threat of literacy intrude on your need for bottle-fed information. Does the itty bitty baby need opinions on anything else? Maybe I could get Al Gore to do an Audiobook. Reading is Hard!!

410 "I'd rather have the expected Republican House and Senate doing absolutely nothing; Obama being able to do absolutely nothing, then Romney thinking he should move socialism forward, but at a slower rate."

Except that Obama does basically everything now by EO or through regulatory agencies.

411 The thought of Mitt Romney being the nominee makes my stomach turn.  Maybe that's a reaction to the novocaine the dentist gave me today.  No, that's Romney. 

412 The only info anyone will ever need on Romneycare is here.  Everything else is just a distraction.

413 Precisely

414 If you read Newt book, you know that  he would have taken  Little Round Top before the battle when he had the chance.

415

Then stack the court and FDR their asses. I'm up for 13 supreme court justices, with the new additions all appointed by President Rubio.

 

Neat idea, but not likely.  After four more years of the stench of BO, I believe you are going to hear a lot of chatter about secession. A decidely left wing and young  SCOTUS imposing it's will unfettered on red state America could cause such a revolt. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy, but people have their breaking points. 

416 428 Nothing makes Democrats blush,but it will be bad.

417 Campaign books are meaningless pap.

418 428 I just noticed that this debate is in florida. Get ready for SS scaremongering that would make the democrats blush. ---- Last one was too.

419 Off topic, but... Why the f*ck is Huntsman and Gary Johnson at tonight's debate, but McCotter is not? At least has something interesting to add to the debate. You can point to the polls but neither of those two snoozers are lighting up the charts while they have had several debates to let voters get an impression. I garauntee that Thaddeus would jump out ahead of the likes of Huntsman or maybe even Cain if he were to get a national platform like tonight's debate.

420 As of 9/6, Bolton said he was not running for POTUS (per Politico and other sources). Quote:  “It was a very difficult decision, and my view has not changed one iota that we need a much more robust discussion of national security issues in this presidential campaign"

421 Is he?  I thought he took himself out of play a few weeks ago.  Maybe I'm misremembering that. 

Posted by: Y-not at September 22, 2011 07:58 PM (5H6zj)

I thought I read in an earlier thread that he's involved in advising some candidates on foreign policy, including Perry.

I think.

 

422

Steady boy/girls play nicely we need each other for the general election.

ABO or go baby!!!

423 McCotter dropped out, SeriousCat.

And endorsed Romney.

424 Who do you think Vlad Putin would rather sit across a table from?

Amaddinnerjacket

Hu Jintao

Who will they fear more?

Romney or Perry?

425

McCotter is not

He dropped out today and went all in for Romney.

426 >>That really is a massive and stupid program, but I don't think you can really blame Perry for it. It was mainly the Texas legislature that pushed that, right? Besides, as dumb and costly as it is and will be, it might actually play well with independents, who are also pretty dumb. The MA legislature was the driving force behind healthcare reform. Romney signed on. He owns it. Same with Perry in Texas, and he was pretty damn enthusiastic about it even giving T. Boone Pickens a big award for his wind energy crap. Pickens is a big Perry donor. And those costs will dwarf the healthcare increases in MA.

427 Thaddeus would jump out ahead of the likes of Huntsman or maybe even Cain if he were to get a national platform like tonight's debate.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 22, 2011 08:02 PM (bAySe)

I think he just endorsed Romney

428

Sorry, Sonnypats, the morons in this thread have pissed me off so much that I won't vote for any of them even in the generals. 

429 Government rarely willingly gives up power of any sort, regardless of who holds the reins.  Like as not, we're probably stuck with "better managed" ObamaCare no matter who wins the presidency.

430

He dropped out today and went all in for Romney.

Posted by: lauren at September 22, 2011 08:03 PM (VKD8C)

RINO!!

431 I believe Forbes endorsed Perry

432 Come to think of it, the only people that feel fairly fine with pissing all over their base on regular basis are the Republicans. Hmmmm.

433 ?

434 The only info anyone will ever need on Romneycare is here. Everything else is just a distraction.

We need all the distractions we can get. Wait times to get a Dr's appointment are longer than ever here in Mass.

435 The MFM will be nice to Romney, until he's the nominee.  Just like they were with McCain.  Once he's set, their knives will come out to protect Obama and Romney won't know what hit him.

436

Posted by: Y-not at September 22, 2011 08:02 PM (5H6zj)

Ah, sorry. I didn't mean that he was in play for the Presidency but that he was actively involved on the campaign level. My bad.

Still a good sign that he's interested in the SecState position, I hope.

437

I think you're looking for reasons to not support him Ace.

His economic plan is IMO exactly what we need. The first steps include repealing Ocare and it will get done b/c and this is key:

THERE WILL BE NO MEANINGFUL SMALL BUSINESS JOB CREATION UNTIL OBAMACARE IS REPEALED

And Romney wants to be a successful POTUS. So it will get done or there will be no job growth, that easy peasey.

He will sign E.O. releasing states form compliance FIRST DAY.

Also very firm there.

Now onto Perry:

What are his economic plans, specifi steps he will take on Day 1, heh, to turn it around?

What is Perry's position on Romney's plan to eliminate cap gains, dividend taxes for Middle Class? Cuz THAT won me and everyone I talk to over right quick. It allows us to catch up on saving for retirement which will need to grow, fast, as Gen X and after are benefit cut (which I support as necessary to save my kids from enslavement to Boomers retirement)

Perry opened a giant can of worms on SS.

He WAS specifi on devolving it to states in his book, which Romney is nailing him on. Mitt will have to take heat too on Romneycare, fine.

But I am not getting SPECIFICS from Perry and it is debate 3.

Show me the money.

438 Well, hrrmph! That's news to me.

439 Well, hell's bells then.  Somebody draft Liz Cheney.

440 Main reason I am first ABO and second ABR even if it means Perry as president.

441 Lana, then you missed the roars from Obama supporters killing off Hillary supporiters that wouldn't budge. Talk about long knives

442 There is one thing I can say about Perry that I can;t say about Romney and thatis I beleive what he says. If he gets on national TV and does a mia culpa for his conservative short comings I can live with that. There's also his electability factor to consider. I see him beating Obozo np.

443

The MA legislature was the driving force behind healthcare reform. Romney signed on. He owns it. Same with Perry in Texas, and he was pretty damn enthusiastic about it even giving T. Boone Pickens a big award for his wind energy crap. Pickens is a big Perry donor. And those costs will dwarf the healthcare increases in MA.

 

Fair enough.  Look, I agree with you, on points Romneycare is less of an albatross then Texas wind.  Romneycare was an experiment to see if the main problem with healthcare was freeloaders without insurance.  Turns out it isn't, but that wasn't known at the time which is why Romney got advice and support from free-market think tanks.  Texas wind, on the other hand, was and is always blatantly stupid and corrupt.

But, if you blame Perry for Texas wind, don't you have to give him at least SOME credit for the Texas job growth?  I think you do.

444 Forbes stopped shot of a full endorsement, but he did say he believed Perry would win the nomination and the election barring anything crazy happening.

445 The same people ferociously pimping Perry ferociously pimped Daniels, Pawlenty, Cain, Bachmann, even Trump, when they were viable. It's a portion of the Party that can't be appeased because they live to bitch.

446 Somebody draft Liz Cheney.

Posted by: Lady in Black at September 22, 2011 08:07 PM (ycuSb)

heh, i'm game

447 alright, thank you sifty

448 Romneycare doesn't bother me so much as Mitt's continued failure to admit it sucks.

449 They may all be better than Obama politically, but on a personal level there are a lot of contenders this time that really make me wanna spend the evening vomiting (Santorum, Romney, Huntsman, Ron Paul!).

450 The same people ferociously pimping Perry ferociously pimped Daniels, Pawlenty, Cain, Bachmann, even Trump, when they were viable

Nope.

451

Lincolntf,

I'm a perrennial bitcher and I'm against Perry, so suck it.

452 Lincolntf,
we Have been desperate. Hell everytime someone is mentioned I say Yah!

453 454 I believe Forbes endorsed Perry

I think he fell short of endorsing him, but said he thought he'd win.  He was holding off on his endorsements.

I have to say that a lot of these endorsements have rolled out very early, the most egregious example being Jason Chaffetz.  Very odd. 

454 So this is what 1979 felt like before Reagan jumped in.

455 heck, I'd even welcome Newt!

456 Show me the money.

There isn't any. We borrow it all from China.

457 >>>JeffB: Honest question. Do you think Romney would make a better President than Perry? If so, why?

No, but I think it's more of a toss-up than people imagine.  In a perfect world where I could simply will the candidate into office and skip those messy elections, I'd choose Perry on the simple logic that he seems to be dispositionally more conservative than Romney.  However, I have certain reservations about him that were, ironically enough, voiced eloquently by Rush Limbaugh today on his show: (paraphrasing here) "It's not that Rick Perry is opposed to big government -- he LOVES himself some big government on the state level -- it's just the Federal level that he hates.  We'll see if he maintains that view if he gets elected President."

That's a critique that actually has a bit of purchase with me, in particular because it's an interesting mirror of the critique people here make against Romney, i.e. that he's a technocrat who believes in "government working smart" as opposed to being opposed to it on its merits.  Well yes, I think that critique has a lot going for it...but I keep looking into Perry's record (e.g., wind farm boondoggle, Trans-Texas corridor, and yes, even the HPV kerfuffle) and I ask myself whether that isn't essentially just as true for him, with the difference of better branding and a hardcore-GOP legislature to rein him in.

I get the sense that Perry would nominate better justices to the Supreme Court than Romney would, and would be less inclined to compromise on that score, and as a lawyer that's big for me.

But I also get the sense that Romney might actually have a better idea of what exactly needs to be done in terms of macro-economic policy decisions to get America out of its ditch.  Whether that means hiring the right people or applying the lessons he's learned through years of Bain, or even (gasp) being able to get some buy-in from a couple of Democrats (esp. in the Senate, where we'll need it because we won't have 60 votes), I just think he's smarter about that stuff than pretty much anyone on the stage.  And this relates in part to my criticism of Perry's debate demeanor...his inarticulateness upsets me so much precisely because it makes me wonder if Perry even knows why, on a deeper level, Texas was so successful.  Or whether he can sell that to people.  Or whether he was just the lucky schlub who happened to be in office in a state that was structurally superior to all the others (GOP legislature, low taxes, oil industry, etc.) and reaped the benefits without doing too much to make it happen.

But honestly I think either one would be an okay President.  I've made this comparison several times before, and I fall back on it because I really think it's solid (also, nerdy): Perry and Romney are like different characters in an arcade fighting game (i.e. Street Fighter II or Mortal Kombat), or different races you can play in Starcraft -- they have different strengths and weaknesses, and they play rather different styles based on that.  This is why I agreed above with Undead States' observation that, indeed, we have TWO good candidates here, NOT JUST ONE.  Perry OR Romney -- I'd be thrilled to vote for either one. 

It's not a coin toss between them -- I prefer Perry and currently plan to vote for him, although my vote is definitely not solid -- but I honestly do think the differences between them are greatly exaggerated by the context each one had to work with (Romney fighting a 70%-80% liberal Dem legislature in MA vs. Perry working with a compliant GOP house in an ultra-business friendly state) and are being blown out of proportion by BOTH sides here on the blog.  And that includes Ace, who is entitled to a bit of Perry-hacking (as he called it on his Twitter-feed), but runs the risk, I think, of overstating the unacceptability of Romney.

458 Mittens can relate to the working man, because remember...he's unemployed too.....

....hahahha...isn't that fucking hysterical? I mean...how's a guy supposed to get by with only $250 million in net worth.

I wouldn't waste the time and the energy to fill in that circle next to his name next November

459

And living in AZ, I remember very clearly when Perry would not support us and Brewer on SB1070. Romney will build a wall.

Even if it is about as useful as Hadrian's wall, I want one.

And Dream Act? so my girl born in AZ legally has to pay thru the nose out of state tuition at TX universities but an illegal immigrant gets in state rates there? I hate that I really do. I wish someone would sue for equal treatment or something.

I will support whomever you nominate but so far Romney has the private sector capital markets experience over Perry and he has put out a very thoughtful specific plan.

Romney is also being advised by Peter Navarro on China policy and he is VERY Tough on China in his economic plan which will play verry well with we blue collar Dems.

I think Romney would clean Obama's fxckin clock in a debate on capital creation and credit markets. 3 years in and Obama still doesnt fxckin get how they work.

Can Perry do that? so far Ive not seen anything to how that.

How about foreign policy? Where is Perry on AfPak? Romney has 08 run exp debating and importantly framing and learning about foreign policy. Perry has to do better IMO in that area.

Bring it to the table and let's shake it out and regroup to work together to win this MoFo. 

460

So this is what 1979 felt like before Reagan jumped in.

Reagan had been running since 1968. He didn't exactly jump in in 1979

461 I always said that the first candidate that said he would leave me the hell alone would get my vote.  Perry did that, so he has my vote. 

Wasn't crazy about him as my Governor, but if he'll get DC out of the way more power to him.

462

If we're already at the stage where the outlier candidates like Bolton and McCotter are lining up behind Romney and Perry, narrowing the field this early and letting the media tee up months ahead of schedule, we'd better start trying these candidates by fire now.  Make Mitt and Rick show us how well they can stand the heat before it's too late to get them out of the kitchen.

463 Perry isn't great,pure conservative that people desperately WANT him to be.He's just not,but he's the best choice we have.

464

If Romney doesn't openly say - over and over -that he will repeal Obamacare  - I will not suppport him.

If he wins and changes his mind? A pox on him.

465 451

Sorry, Sonnypats, the morons in this thread have pissed me off so much that I won't vote for any of them even in the generals.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at September 22, 2011 08:04 PM (epBek

OK so wear your 52% patch in good health .

466 483

So this is what 1979 felt like before Reagan jumped in.

Reagan had been running since 1968. He didn't exactly jump in in 1979

Posted by: Ben

I did not know that in 1968 Reagan declared for the 1980 nomination.  Interesting.

467 The same people ferociously pimping Perry ferociously pimped Daniels, Pawlenty, Cain, Bachmann, even Trump, when they were viable. It's a portion of the Party that can't be appeased because they live to bitch.

Posted by: Lincolntf at September 22, 2011 08:08 PM (roFKc)

Nope, I was in the Romney Camp when the ones you mentioned were the flavor of the month.

I left romney when he decided scaring seniors like the democrats do was in his interest. If anyone shoudn't be attacking other candidates it's romney.

468

I'm wondering when we are going to see a little more herd thinning......

Santorum can't win.  He's a solid conservative, but he can't win.

Cain....same deal.

Paul....well he's actually right about a lot of things domestically, but he's nuts on foreign policy.  Alas, he isn't going away, and neither are his epically annoying followers.

Bachmann.  Done, but she's pissed off at Perry so she may stay in just to be an irritant (Yes, I recognize  that even though I'm a Romney supporter)

Newt....hmmm...yeah maybe he should stay.  It's too damn entertaining watching him hammer media pissants.

469 That said, the press will attack Romney just as if he he had the same policy positions as Jim DeMint or Marco Rubio, so might as well go with the most conservative regardless. It's going to be the same fight anyway and we should pick a person who will be conservative enough to get something done.  The SCFOAMF isn't going to win.

One thing Rick Perry has done is go toe to toe with a Republican congress that wanted to dabble in raising taxes and/or spending the Rainy Day fund. So that might warm the cockles of your hearts. At least he's sorta conservative.

470 O'Reilly looks like an old chinese cat...

471

@199 re Santorum question.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at September 22, 2011 07:02 PM (OWjjx)

Thanks, Mallamutt.  Looks like his standing's not too likely to change.  Apparently he's hardly even hate-worthy, judging from the dearth of disparaging remarks that followed my question.  Oh well.  At least he appears honest about his beliefs, and his statements agree with his record.

I still think he's the truest conservative of the lot...and that might present an even bigger problem than Mittens' or Perry's suspicious baggage.

472 @468
Yeah, I really don't see where you're getting that. 

Or why it matters, frankly. 

People arrive at their candidate preferences in a lot of ways.  It's a pretty organic process.  What I find interesting about Perry is that when he announced a number of us from a pretty broad spectrum of backgrounds were enthusiastic about his candidacy.  Vic seems to be more conservative than I am and we are from different regional backgrounds and whatnot, but we both seem to like him. 

So I sympathize with the frustration about people not backing your candidate, but I don't see where it is getting you (or him) to make allegations or dismiss their reasons for supporting someone else. 

473 Somebody draft Liz Cheney.
Posted by: Lady in Black at September 22, 2011 08:07 PM (ycuSb)

Yup

474

Repealing Obamacare is THE SINGLE GREATEST ISSUE WE HAVE in front of us. If it doesn't happen - our economic system will collapse under its weight. It's a path to leftwinger fascist "single payer" - a failed system in all other nations.

 

475 Perry was instrumental in getting tort reform passed to limit malpractice lawsuits against doctors in 2003, as well as "Loser Pays" legislation this year. Why aren't we hearing more about this?

476 "I think Romney would clean Obama's fxckin clock in a debate on capital creation and credit markets. 3 years in and Obama still doesnt fxckin get how they work."

I could clean Obama's clock on capital creation while flying high on a San Francisco treat.  So what?

477 REMEMBER: WHOEVER WINS THE NEXT TERM GETS TO NOMINATE UPWARDS OF THREE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, INCLUDING THE REPLACEMENT FOR RUTH BADER GINSBURG AND PERHAPS ANTHONY KENNEDY.

You want Barack Obama doing that?  Even if you think Mitt Romney would fuck it up and pick some squish, that would STILL be 1000% better than two screaming liberals with life-tenure.

Posted by: Jeff B. at September 22, 2011 06:54 PM (kRtDX) 

Bears repeating.

478 497 Somebody draft Liz Cheney.
Posted by: Lady in Black at September 22, 2011 08:07 PM (ycuSb)

Yup
I could go there.

479 Really, i dont know why these endorsements are coming ouut this early. The ones now proly wont have any effect a few months from now.

480 Is he better than the SCFOAMF?

The only differences between Mittens and Obama on the core issues of the day are the motivations.

481 Nope.

Ditto.  I'm backing Perry for now.  I never supported those other duds.  Perry's not perfect.  He's not Reagan.  Of the two, my gut instincts tell me he has a considerable more bit of trustworthiness than Romney.  I believe Perry when he says what he believes.  I believe him when he says he f-ed up.  I don't believe he would compromise himself or his integrity just to win the presidency.  He was not right at the front of the sign-up line when things started heating up.  He had to be approached and convinced now was his time.  It's not something he's been dreaming about his entire adult life.  That's the feel I get from Romney. 

482 >>But, if you blame Perry for Texas wind, don't you have to give him at least SOME credit for the Texas job growth? I think you do. I have repeatedly stated on this blog that if Perry wins the nomination I would support him and I will. I get a little tired of the Romneybot shit and I do push back. I don't hate Perry. I just know who he is. This is a guy who has been described as winning elections by "sticking a fork in the eye of his competition" so the the mean ol' Romney is picking on Perry shit wears a tad thin with me. I want to win this election as much as anyone. But more, I want the problems in this country fixed. I think Romney gets a very unfair shake on this place and the blogosphere in general. People pick out talking points instead of looking at the environment people came from. Romney battled the bluest of the blue everyday. He made some progress, had some wins and some bad losses. But the portrait that people paint of him in places like this is a joke. More than anything Romney is one of the most accomplished business men in the country. He knows what makes businesses grow and what kills them as well as anyone. Given a Republican Congress or even one that is remotely close I think he would do a very good job of delivering on what I want. He's an ardent capitalist and thats the type of person I want to try and bring this country back from the brink.

483 No way Liz Cheney could win the GOP nomination -- she has a gay sister.

484 Perry isn't great,pure conservative that people desperately WANT him to be.He's just not,but he's the best choice we have.

Posted by: steevy at September 22, 2011 08:14 PM (fyOgS)

And he's a damn sight better than that fucking Socialist piece of shit that is shredding the Constitution.

485 476 454 I think he fell short of endorsing him, but said he thought he'd win.  He was holding off on his endorsements.

I have to say that a lot of these endorsements have rolled out very early, the most egregious example being Jason Chaffetz.  Very odd. 


Current endorsement list

486 Dont tell jackstraw romney is a job killer

487 506 Well,it's true that some supporters of every candidate are more militant than ever.Some feel the need to insult the intelligence of anyone who thinks differently.I don't like that.I understand being pissed at the attacks by Romney and Bachmann because they help the left.We need to stop doing that(our side).

488

I've liked Newt over the years.  It just takes some getting used to, that arrogance, but since I see it on a daily basis with our current SCOAMF, it's not nearly as annoying when Newt does it as it used to be.

Could he really be the one left standing at the end?  He is the smartest guy in the room.

489 499Perry was instrumental in getting tort reform passed to limit malpractice lawsuits against doctors in 2003, as well as "Loser Pays" legislation this year. Why aren't we hearing more about this?

Posted by: John at September 22, 2011 08:15 PM (z8tc4

Perry needs to pull a Newt and take the reigns more tonight.

490 If Romney ends up opposite Zero on the ballot, I'll still pull the lever for him.  At least the Republican Congress can pull him by the ear to repeal Zerocare (which they couldn't do with the Teleprompter Messiah, despite his enormous ears).

491

While we're talking about endorsements, Sam Brownback of KS just endorsed Perry.

492

"And while Romney talks up how dreadfully "extreme" Perry's "Ponzi" talk is, he is making implicit promises to his would-be governing coalition: That he will not be "extreme." That he will be... middle of the road.

That he'll do more of the same, but maybe just a little bit better, and will not seek drastic, controversial (!!!) reforms, but rather tinker a bit to get us through the next four years or so."

It's agonizing to watch so many astute commentators in the blogosphere slowly, agonizingly and begrudgingly coming to the realization that Electability!!! isn't going to do squat to save us from the mess we're in. 

Keep plugging away at it Ace, you're almost there.

493

@480: "I've made this comparison several times before, and I fall back on it because I really think it's solid (also, nerdy): Perry and Romney are like different characters in an arcade fighting game (i.e. Street Fighter II or Mortal Kombat)"

HA-DO-KEN, bitch!

Excellent.

494 Perry might be a fine President, Romney would be better. That's the way I see it, and these TV debates have been reinforcing my position since they started. I still believe there's a 50% chance that Perry goes all "Howard Dean" at some point and scuttles his own ship.

495

Anything from Massholechusetts is dead to me, Mr. Romney.

496 507 No way Liz Cheney could win the GOP nomination -- she has a gay sister.

Posted by: SFGoth at September 22, 2011 08:17 PM (dZ756)

You forget yer sarc tag, I hope?  So, maybe someone taps her for VP.

497 >>What are the odds he'll prosecute anyone for Operation Fast and Furious? I'm guessing zero. >>r0mney 20never Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Who endorsed Romney today? Darrell Issa. Yea, I know. He's a RINO.

498

Romney would be better.

`1

499 Not under any circumstances would Romney repeal Obamacare, he likes it for crying out loud.

500 >>>More than anything Romney is one of the most accomplished business men in the country. He knows what makes businesses grow and what kills them as well as anyone. Given a Republican Congress or even one that is remotely close I think he would do a very good job of delivering on what I want. He's an ardent capitalist and thats the type of person I want to try and bring this country back from the brink.

See, this is exactly what appeals to me about Romney too.  It's why I simply cannot buy into the "I'm voting Obama!" or "I'm staying home!" crap that people are pushing is he gets the nomination.  Romney isn't Linc Chaffee, for fuck's sake.  He genuinely does seem to know more about business than anyone else who's run for President in the past 12 years or so.  And that's a strong selling point that overcomes a lot.  A WHOLE lot, for me.

I'm young(-ish).  My life is still before me.  I keep seeing myself referred to as "the lost generation" by the MSM, and Drudge, and pretty much everyone everywhere I turn.  If the GOP puts up a guy who has the business skills and lifelong experience as a turnaround expert to run for President...what, are you fucking kidding?  I'd be crazy not to vote for that guy, even if he wasn't my first choice.

501 They are all politicians. I don't love any of them. But the way Perry gets lionized and Romney gets caricatured here is dumb.

Conservative websites draw conservative commenters who prefer more conservative candidates.  No great mystery there- even you would be hard pressed to make a convincing argument that Romney is/was more conservative than Perry.

There are legitimate concerns about Perry I and others have, and that's why you don't see many of us going the Palinista "My candidate is perfect in every way and only (s)he can save America" route.  If he starts looking to be unelectable, his support will drop like a stone.

However, his record as governor (flaws and all) does give me and many others some degree of confidence in terms of where he lies ideologically and what kind of President he'd make.  Yes, he might not be a Tancredo on illegal immigration, and may have corporatist and cronyism tendencies, but neither is he the Lindsey Graham / John McCain "Yes, in fact I would like a reach-around but only if it's not too much trouble" type.

That same confidence doesn't exist with Romney, who himself seems to have dropped any pretense that he's the same guy who served as governor.

502 518 Perry might be a fine President, Romney would be better. That's the way I see it, and these TV debates have been reinforcing my position since they started. I still believe there's a 50% chance that Perry goes all "Howard Dean" at some point and scuttles his own ship. Posted by: Lincolntf at September 22, 2011 08:20 PM (RD/KP) Romney would be terrible no doubt about it

503
Say something nice about Mitt Romney?  Well -- he's not the most worthless jelly-spined Rino in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Wait -- Scott Brown just got hit by a taxicab?  I withdraw my previous statement.

504

Sorry, keyboard glitched . That should have been:

Romney would be better

In what way?

505

499 John - Every Republican candidate supports tort reform.  It's something he should cite as an accomplishment in that he actually got it done, but it's a choir preaching issue. 

In fact both Perry and Romney have supported national tort reform.  FWIW, I don't agree with a national one-size-fits-all tort plan.  Tort law has always been a state-by-state issue and to me, a national plan reminds me of both Romney and Perry's flirtations with paternal statism (RomneyCare, Gardasil).  That being said, national tort reform would have enough upside that I could ignore the federalism damage even though in my case it would take money out of my own pockets.

 

506 You're not conservative if you vote for romney. My dog knows how to manage an economy better

507 are we going to have a debate thread?

508 >>>Romney would be terrible no doubt about it

Are you even old enough to vote?

509 520 507 No way Liz Cheney could win the GOP nomination -- she has a gay sister.

Posted by: SFGoth at September 22, 2011 08:17 PM (dZ756)

You forget yer sarc tag, I hope?  So, maybe someone taps her for VP.

Posted by: EyeTest
///
You're kidding me, right?  I was not being sarcastic.  The Republican base still gets worked up over utter sideshows like religion and sexuality.

510 Why does Opie look like he's auditioning for a part in  Planet of the Apes remake?

511 >>>You're not conservative if you vote for romney. My dog knows how to manage an economy better

1.) This is self-evidently retarded.

2.) So let's assume Romney wins the nomination.  Are you saying that nobody could vote for him against Obama and be a conservative?

3.) Seriously, are you even old enough to vote yet?

512 Sorry to go O/T, but damn!

513 Cincy up 7 on NC State.

514 are we going to have a debate thread?

This isn't it?

515 I really want a good performance by Perry tonight.

516 Romney will labeled "weird" by the MSM if he gets the nomination. He's not electable in the general.

517 +1 for every commenter citing the Supreme Court as a reason to vote ABO.  Two or three justices could effectively ratfuck any conservative rennaisance we may have in mind for two decades or more.

518 You're kidding me, right?  I was not being sarcastic.  The Republican base still gets worked up over utter sideshows like religion and sexuality.

Posted by: SFGoth at September 22, 2011 08:25 PM (dZ756)

Yup, that's why those bastards stayed home and didn't vote for Bush/Cheney(with a gay daughter and pro gay marriage)

Did you just arrive on this planet?

519 Is this debate 2 hours?  I'll have to watch 2 hours of Huntsman?  Who is responsible for this lack of humanity?

520 Could he really be the one left standing at the end?  He is the smartest guy in the room.

Not likely.  Newt is living proof that a high IQ does not necessarily correlate with good judgement.

521 OT Female football ref,It just don't seem right.

522 Republicans voted for Bush/Cheney, Cheney has a gay daughter, what's the difference?

523 steevy @539,

Ditto. If he's not up to the task, I'm at a real loss here.

Yes, ABO, but that's beginning to sound pretty weak.

524 You're kidding me, right?  I was not being sarcastic.  The Republican base still gets worked up over utter sideshows like religion and sexuality.

Posted by: SFGoth at September 22, 2011 08:25 PM (dZ756)

Why should Mary Cheney be a bigger problem for Liz than for Dick?

525 Is this debate 2 hours?  I'll have to watch 2 hours of Huntsman?  Who is responsible for this lack of humanity?

Posted by: Lady in Black at September 22, 2011 08:28 PM (ycuSb)

He's going to do motorcycle tricks at half time.

526 540 Romney will labeled "weird" by the MSM if he gets the nomination. He's not electable in the general.   Weird?  Well since the personality assessment of the MSM is critical now, how do you expect them to label Perry?   I can speculate.  GWB without a higher education.  

527

Fox online live stream is up!!!

 

528 +1 for every commenter citing the Supreme Court as a reason to vote ABO.  Two or three justices could effectively ratfuck any conservative rennaisance we may have in mind for two decades or more.

Threaten to stack it. If it's good enough for FDR, it should be good enough for everyone.

529 529 Society Yes, Perry needs to talk up the fact that he actually got tort reform passed. That is a HUGE accomplishment. This is not the time to be humble.

530 The RomneyCare thing for me is just too much. In this environment with all the evidence showing what a disaster it is and what a disaster Obamacare is continuing to be? The fact that Romney continues to defend it is something I cannot get past. And the Social Security attacks on Perry were merely confirmation that he's just not a candidate I can support. Oh yes, he can get elected, but what good will it actually do the country?  This is the sticking point.

We've hired the best management guy in the country to oversee our decline in a graceful, dignified manner. Yay us!!

531 +1 for every commenter citing the Supreme Court as a reason to vote ABO.  Two or three justices could effectively ratfuck any conservative renaissance we may have in mind for two decades or more.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame



President Romney's first three Supreme Court picks:

Oren Hatch
Richard Lugar
Rino TBD

Consider that rat still boned

532 This not-electable crap is just that.  Crap.  I think this coming election is going to break all the conventional wisdom.  By Nov. 2012, this country will be so far down the crapper that the tidy bowl man can't even save us.  As bad as things are now, they will be worse then, imo.  Someone's religion, what part of the country they are from, how they talk...will mean jack shit.  There will be millions who will walk over broken glass to vote ABO, including me.  Nearly every poll is reflecting this. 

533

I prefer Perry (at this point) but will walk over broken glass to vote for Mitt should he grab the nomination.

 

 

534

No, this is an *insert bandwagon here* place.

Posted by: Lurker at September 22, 2011 07:34 PM (gQceP)

Damn, lurking does make things clearer, doesn't it?

535 We all know what a higher education gets you.......SCOAMF.  Look what good that did us.

536

Yup, that's why those bastards stayed home and didn't vote for Bush/Cheney(with a gay daughter and pro gay marriage)

Did you just arrive on this planet?

Posted by: robtr
///
I'm sorry, which GOP candidate challenged Bush for the nomination in 2004?  Ok.  Given a choice among competing candidates, Liz Cheney is not going to get evangelical support with a gay sister.  They'll vote for her in the general, over the anti-Christ (teh ghey bad, teh Obama = End of Times), but they're not going to support her during the primaries.

537

I prefer Perry (at this point) but will walk over broken glass to vote for Mitt should he grab the nomination.

I'm willing to show up drunk at the polls for Mitt, but that's about it.

538 More than anything Romney is one of the most accomplished business men in the country. He knows what makes businesses grow and what kills them as well as anyone

Romney helped individual business grow by trimming the fat, i.e., laying people off.

...and guess what...he made a shitload of money doing so.He has never done anything to help the overall economy grow.

I don't begrudge Romney. It's part of the capitalist system....but don't ever try to translate his experience and success as proof of changing the tax and regulatory climate to allow the economy to expand.

 He has done the complete opposite.

539 While you chuckleheads are indulging stale old regional stereotypes and prejudices, don't forget Lindsey Graham, Queen of All RINO's from South Carolina or the Grand Old Idiot of the West, McCain.

540 Do endorsements even matter?

541 550 540 Romney will labeled "weird" by the MSM if he gets the nomination. He's not electable in the general.   Weird?  Well since the personality assessment of the MSM is critical now, how do you expect them to label Perry?   I can speculate.  GWB without a higher education.   -----------------------------------------/--- The MSM are saving their Romney knives for the general. Trust me, they will make him look weird.

542 532 >>>Romney would be terrible no doubt about it Are you even old enough to vote? Posted by: Jeff B. at September 22, 2011 08:25 PM (hIWe1) Sure am. Pa voter too. Id rather fap to DwS than waste my time voting for a piece of shit like romney

543 >>Conservative websites draw conservative commenters who prefer more conservative candidates. No great mystery there- even you would be hard pressed to make a convincing argument that Romney is/was more conservative than Perry. You would be hard pressed to convince me that Perry is anymore conservative than Romney. I'm not kidding. Put Perry in MA and Romney in Texas and Perry might still be a democrat and Romney would be the national job creating machine. I don't buy that people here are anymore conservative than I am. I've help start a few businesses and I also know what makes them work and what kills them. Maybe I have had a better view of Romney both in business and as a politician than some and that slants my view. I know I will never convince you on Romney. Thats fine. Hell, this is a blog and a way to blow off steam not win converts. We'll all argue and fight and then there will be a nominee and anyone who hasn't had a gardasil shot will get behind the nominee and vote to get rid of Obama. Because anyone who doesn't isn't just not a conservative, they are mentally challenged.

544 Oren Hatch
Richard Lugar
Rino TBD

Consider that rat still boned

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 22, 2011 08:31 PM (EeYDk)

Look, would you rather have Orrin Hatch and Richard Lugar, or Van Jones and Elizabeth Warren?

545 Do endorsements even matter?

I'm personally endorsing Bowman's "lite" vodka this evening.

546 Damn, I finally got banned from the "Virtual Memorial for Troy Davis" on Facebook for posting photos of Mark MacPhail.

547 No librarian glasses for Megyn tonight. Yet another GOP debate disappointment...

548 And if Romney is one of the  most accomplished businessmen in the country, why in hell did he support the heath care plan for Massachusetts?!?! Why didn't he know better and why does he continue to defend it? It makes no sense to me.

549

552 - Stacking's a non-starter issue nowadays.  Most Americans in the 30's didn't look on the Supreme Court as the most powerful institution in American politics, and FDR had the media firmly in his grip.  The situation now is exactly the opposite.  If a Republican president tried to stack the Court in 2012-2016, they'd be more likely to face impeachment than to get even a single justice added to the Court.

550 I want to see Palin stride confidently into the room and say, "got room for one more?"..then watch mittens piss himself..

::in best Seinfeld vioce..i kid::

551 I'm willing to show up drunk at the polls for Mitt, but that's about it.

This.  It may take a pint or two to wear the cornbrero, but I will.

552 I'd vote for that idiot Keith Stone before JEF.

553 FTR of course for SCOTUS I would rather have Clone of Scalia.  But if Mr. Clone isn't an option, then I'd rather have RINO Hatch than Communist Van Jones.

554 More than anything Romney is one of the most accomplished business men in the country. He knows what makes businesses grow and what kills them as well as anyone

Mittens was wealthy in the womb. He has never had any skin in the game. He invested with other peoples' money. There was never any risk to himself.

He has no fucking clue what it takes to lay everything you have on the line to start an entrepreneurial concern and have the government fuck with you at every turn

555 Personally, I would rub my dick over broken glass to not vote for romney.

556 Do I think Romney would sign it if a congress repealed it?   yes, yes I do.

Do I think Romney would fight to get congress to repeal it?  no, no I don't.

557

Look, would you rather have Orrin Hatch and Richard Lugar, or Van Jones and Elizabeth Warren?

Posted by: chemjeff at September 22, 2011 08:34 PM (s7mIC)

Are you actually designing the ballot papers for Hell inc.??

558 580 Personally, I would rub my dick over broken glass to not vote for romney.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 22, 2011 08:37 PM (b8YIP)

In the primaries or in the general?

559 I'd vote for that idiot Keith Stone before JEF.

Of course, he's smooth.

Always.

560

Romney or Perry, Perry or Romney, I think in the end Romney will pull a McCain and start complimenting Obama during debates or something, whereas I don't see Perry doing that.

The media is all over Perry because they want Romney in the general election, he's a puss.  Perry would chew the Kenyen up and feed him to that coyote, before he shoots it.

561

I'm willing to show up drunk at the polls for Mitt, but that's about it.

As long as you vote for him fair enough.

While I'm not a huge Mittens guy, I don't have the same revulsion for him as you do.  I don't put him in McCain territory either as many like to do either.

Whatever, if it was up to me, I'd pretend Rubio was 50 and had a full term in the Senate under his belt.  Or Ryan.  Life ain't perfect though and our two choices are Mitt n Perry and the either of them Vs. Owaffle.

Seems pretty easy to me.

562 They'll vote for her in the general, over the anti-Christ (teh ghey bad, teh Obama = End of Times), but they're not going to support her during the primaries.

Posted by: SFGoth at September 22, 2011 08:32 PM (dZ756

Your stereotype fu is pretty weak. Wait, who was an evangical presidential candidate that picked a guy with a gay daughter and who was for gary marriage to be his VP?

563 OT:  TEXAS to stop granting last meal requests to death row inmates.  They'll get what everyone else gets for dinner.  Effective immediately.  Bon appetite,  fuckers.

564

Personally, I would rub my dick over broken glass to not vote for romney.

Beta.

565 557

I prefer Perry (at this point) but will walk over broken glass to vote for Mitt should he grab the nomination.

I prefer Romney, but I'd roll around on a hill of fireants to vote for Rick should he get the nomination.

No BO

566 588 Hah!Not even a last cigarette!

567 I sick and pre-drunk for the debate.

Let the wild rumpus begin!

568 I'm willing to show up drunk at the polls for Mitt, but that's about it.

This.  It may take a pint or two to wear the cornbrero, but I will.

Its best to vote by mail when drunk-voting.  Saves the DUI.

569 Megyn's got the Social Issues part of tonight's show.

570 We HAVE to beat Obama,the future of the nation depends on it.That ain't hyperbole,it may already be too late.

571 woohoo toby928!  hope you get better and hope the alcohol cures what ails ya

572

In the primaries or in the general?

Posted by: chemjeff at September 22, 2011 08:37 PM (s7mIC)

In both. It's my first fucking vote for President. Mitt. Is. A. Piece. Of. Shit.

573

Are we getting a debate thread or what?

574

Whatever, if it was up to me, I'd pretend Rubio was 50 and had a full term in the Senate under his belt.  Or Ryan.  Life ain't perfect though and our two choices are Mitt n Perry and the either of them Vs. Owaffle.

 

Rubio, Jindal, Ryan, and perhaps Christie.  The next field will be pretty darn interesting.

575 Heh, Parks and Recreation tonight is about a dick-pic-e-mailing government employee.

576 TD Cincy  14-0


I always vote in person, the better to give the stinkeye to the democrats.

577 580 Personally, I would rub my dick over broken glass to not vote for romney. -----------------------------/---- I'm not sure I would go that far but I appreciate the sentiment.

578

In both. It's my first fucking vote for President. Mitt. Is. A. Piece. Of. Shit.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 22, 2011 08:41 PM (b8YIP)

 

Lucky you.  Voting on who won't end life as we know it faster than the other.  I was fortunate, I got to vote for Ronald Reagan,  twice.

579 When does this "debate" start? There are nine people on stage. What a farce. And Palin's an idiot for not getting in early

580 Could Bill O'Reilly be more a douchebag?  "You have to let the candidates talk for a whole minute." 

581 576 "I'm willing to show up drunk at the polls for Mitt, but that's about it."

This.  It may take a pint or two to wear the cornbrero, but I will.

Ahh, you find the possibility of a rerun of 2008 disturbing?

Don't get wrong, I'll wear may own cornbrero should the need arise, but there is something to voter enthusiasm.

582 I got to vote for Ronald Reagan,  twice.

I got to vote for him three times.

583 No librarian glasses for Megyn tonight. Yet another GOP debate disappointment...

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 22, 2011 08:35 PM (nRTou)

She could raise millions of dollars for a charitable organization if she'd pose for even a PG-13 calender.

584

Rubio and Jindal can't be President, they aren't natural born citizens.

585 wait, Former NY Congressman who is on the show?

586 Wait ... four times.  76 primary 80 primary 80 general and 84 general.

587 The best thing I remember about Romney that characterizes him was that moment in the 2008 debates where the liberal PBS moderator asked for a show of hands on who believes in man-made global warming, and Romney's hand was starting to go up when Fred Thompson shot down the moderator and said that he would not answer in such a simplistic way.  Romney immediately halted the upward motion of his hand, and turned that motion into a pointed finger toward Thompson, as if he had intended from the beginning to point to Thompson to acknowledge Thompson's point scored against the moderator.

What a weasel Romney is. 

588

In both. It's my first fucking vote for President. Mitt. Is. A. Piece. Of. Shit.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 22, 2011 08:41 PM (b8YIP)

Oh.  Well then.  I guess you like SCFOAMF then...

589 In both. It's my first fucking vote for President. Mitt. Is. A. Piece. Of. Shit.

Wow.  My heart goes out to you.  I have the honor of claiming my first vote, at the age of 18.  I got the blessing of voting for Mr. Ronnie himself.  You won't have much to hang your hat on. 

590

Your stereotype fu is pretty weak. Wait, who was an evangical presidential candidate that picked a guy with a gay daughter and who was for gary marriage to be his VP?

Posted by: robtr

I guess rather than actually respond to my post you act like a liberal. 

Dick Cheney was not a candidate for the GOP nomination in 2000.  Dick Cheney did not support gay anything in 2000 (at least not publicly).  Who the hell even knew who Mary Cheney was in 2000?  Now, it would tickle me purple if you'd actually respond to what I said:  the evangelical base (last I checked GWB was not the base) will not support a candidate for the nomination who has a gay sibling.  You've yet to respond to that statement.  You've managed to kill every other straw man, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target.

591 595 Steevy, The electorate will be making THE choice of the first 1/4 century next year. If Jugears gets back in by fraud the nation is finished.

592 O'Reilly really pisses me off.  He is sooooo going out of his way to give any benefit of the doubt to SCOAMF and I hate it.   He throws in a little red meat, but other than that, he tries sooooo hard to be diplomatic when referring to Obama.

593 I've always gotten that 'Bayesian" feel about Romney. 
Do
Not
Trust

Unfortunately his initials are ABO.

594 then I'd rather have RINO Hatch than Communist Van Jones.

False choice. We could instead elect someone who would never appoint either douche.

595 My first presidential election was the first the Dems had won since 76.I was depressed as hell.

596

Oh.  Well then.  I guess you like SCFOAMF then...

Posted by: chemjeff at September 22, 2011 08:45 PM (s7mIC)

No I said I would not vote for him in the general. oh, you were talking about Obama.

597

560 Goth - Cheney's not going to run, OFC, but if she did, evangelicals and other Christians would not shun her for having a gay daughter.  Some would over support of gay marriage, but you seem to be buying into the "Jesus-zombie" stereotype the media uses to smear Christians and Republicans. 

I'm an atheist Objectivist but I'm not knee-jerk anti-religion.  Are you an angry fi-con, Libertarian or what ?  In either case, go easy on the Christians.  They're 90% on our side and they're 80% of the electorate.  Save your ammo for the enemy.

598 My first presidential election was 2004.

599 604 When does this "debate" start? There are nine people on stage. What a farce. And Palin's an idiot for not getting in early     Assuming that she will run, I think her strategy was to wait for Bachmann to decline in popularity.  However gaffe-prone Michelle is, she has a helluva lot better grasp of policy than Sarah.

600 And where was he during the debt fight?

Oh, that's right. Vic pointed it out above:

As Democratic and Republican leaders in Washington struggled to find agreement on spending cuts and extending the debt limit, Mitt Romney struck a conciliatory note in New Hampshire on Monday by lamenting partisan feuding while touting his record of working with Democrats -- even the Senate's onetime liberal lion Edward M. Kennedy.
...

601 My cousin said yesterday that O'Realy goes easy on Obama because he wants the big election year interview.She's probablyt right.

602

Rubio and Jindal can't be President, they aren't natural born citizens.

Posted by: jaimo at September 22, 2011 08:43 PM (L5Jes)

Yes they are.

603 To Lady In Black, we must be the same age.  I was 18 in 1980 too, I was so excited to vote for Ronnie. 

604 >>Assuming that she will run, I think her strategy was to wait for Bachmann to decline in popularity. However gaffe-prone Michelle is, she has a helluva lot better grasp of policy than Sarah. If Palin does get in the battles on the blogosphere between her supporters and the Perry supporters will be epic. Popcorn futures will go through the roof.

605 I see what people are saying about Dana Perino looking excessively artificial now.

I'll still try and save her once the Barackalypse hits.

606 Stephanopoulos? Are we supposed to give a shit what George Snuphullufugus has to say now?

Why the hell is O'Reilly interviewing him?

607 The last--and only-- time I voted drunk was for Dole.

608 #632, we're talking about Liz, not Lyn.  I'm not angry, I'm just stating my opinion, which is rather academic at this point since we're stuck with the equivalent of the Dems' 1988 7 dwarfs.

609 O'Reilly sucks.  I don't know why he commands the ratings he does.  He completely lacks any meaningful stance on anything, for the most part.  He's Bill O'Reilly, International Man of No Substance.

610 624 My first presidential election was 2004.

 

Mine was 1992.  Didn't work out too well.

 

My Grandparents voted for Hoover in 1932!

 

611   Assuming that she will run, I think her strategy was to wait for Bachmann to decline in popularity.  However gaffe-prone Michelle is, she has a helluva lot better grasp of policy than Sarah.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 22, 2011 08:48 PM (0DGtF)

I don't know. Sarah is great when not holding some RINO's water. Certainly better than ms. tardisal.

612 627 steevy, That and O'shamrock is a moonbat who plays a populist conservative leaning curmudgeon on TV..... Ivy league 4 life baby

613 To Lady In Black, we must be the same age.  I was 18 in 1980 too, I was so excited to vote for Ronnie.

I was too.  I still remember my dad taking me.  Back then, our "precinct" was in somebody's basement.  No joke!

614 False choice. We could instead elect someone who would never appoint either douche.

Yeah, we could.  But if we don't, then I'll still vote for the guy who will put a guy named Orrin Hatch on SCOTUS over a guy named Van Jones.

615 Would Rick Perry repeal Obamacare? Dear Hillary "I think your efforts in trying to reform the nation's health care system are most commendable" Love ya. XOXOXO Rick P.S.: Send kisses to Al. Tell him we have to work on that campaign of his.

616 I see what people are saying about Dana Perino looking excessively artificial now.

My daughter was hear yesterday when The Five came on and I suddenly shouted "damnit!"

My daughter was taken aback for a moment until I told her to look what a beautiful, accomplished woman had done to herself. She spotted it tight away and followed up with daaaannng.

It is disappointing that someone such as she would feel the need to pump botox into her forehead. It's not even subtle.

617 The only person that I would consider not voting for against Obama is the nut Ron Paul.

618 Yeah, we could.  But if we don't, then I'll still vote for the guy who will put a guy named Orrin Hatch on SCOTUS over a guy named Van Jones.

Cool. Then we're agreed that Romney is the candidate of last resort.

619  the evangelical base (last I checked GWB was not the base) will not support a candidate for the nomination who has a gay sibling.  You've yet to respond to that statement.  You've managed to kill every other straw man, but like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target.

Posted by: SFGoth at September 22, 2011 08:45 PM (dZ756)

I did respond to it. Dick Cheney has got the evangical vote twice. You really haven't been paying attention if you don't think Cheney's gay daughter wasn't brought up in the 2000 election. It was brought up a lot. Just not in a debate like it was in 2004.

I am not an evangical but I think you are wrong in saying they wouldn't vote for a person because her sister is gay.

You are thinking about the fred phelps crowd and they are democrats.

620 Would Rick Perry repeal Obamacare?

Why yes, yes he would.

621

So you must have skipped McSame?

No... for him I snorted battery acid first.

622 Cool. Then we're agreed that Romney is the candidate of last resort.

No, we agree that we're both voting for Romney in the general if he does get nominated.

623 Drunken thread up

624 No, we agree that we're both voting for Romney in the general if he does get nominated.

I'll drink to that

625 DANA IS FOR BUSH!   WOOHOO
boom chicka bow wow

626

625 Reg - With Bachmann taking a gas can to her own credibility, the chances of Palin running have probably gone up.  Palin for Prez is still not viable, IMO, but things certainly look better from her perspective.  She could fill the "female" and "(looks) most conservative" roles and provide the only strong personality counterpoint to Perry among frontrunners.  She and Perry would probably end up goading each other into such fringe displays of Conservative bona-fides that they both became radioactive in the general.

Hugh Hewitt might do well to endorse Palin on those grounds, cuz you know who that helps...

627 O'Reilly sucks.  I don't know why he commands the ratings he does.  He completely lacks any meaningful stance on anything, for the most part.  He's Bill O'Reilly, International Man of No Substance.

Oh, but didn't you know? He's now the second most powerful man in America.

628 623 - Liz/Lynne daughter/sister my bad.  Same point holds, tho.

629 621 My first presidential election was the first the Dems had won since 76.I was depressed as hell.

Posted by: steevy at September 22, 2011 08:47 PM (fyOgS)

--Same here.

630 Ahhhhhaaaaa!! HAHAHAHAHA!

B.O. is talking about a California councilman who named his dog Mohammed. CAIR is demanding an apology.

631 Okay the ripping of planking on The Office is pretty awesome.

632
Look, would you rather have Orrin Hatch and Richard Lugar, or Van Jones and Elizabeth Warren?
Posted by: chemjeff



After the next election, a leftist nominated to the Court by Da O is far less likely to be confirmed by the Senate than a moderate/squish appointed by Romney.

Republicans are more likely to oppose/filibuster a Democratic pick* than a Republican choice. Republicans are, after all the go along party.

Not sure the Republic can much more from those Republican Justices who "grow in office" once they take the black.

_{*especially if Lugar gets hit by the same taxicab that snagged Scott Brown}

633 is there a live blogging thread?

634 Instead of flooring it as we go over the cliff, Romney's going to kill the head lights and put it in neutral.

Well if it's going over anyways this would give us a lot more entertaining sound effects and panic steering.

635 You're just figuring this out now?!??

636 I love what you guys are frequently up too. Such clever work and reporting! Keep up the terrific works guys IÂ’ve added you guys to my blogroll.

637 ...he'll do more of the same, but maybe just a little bit better, and will not seek drastic, controversial (!!!) reforms, but rather tinker a bit to get us through the next four years or so.

Still like those RINOs?

638 Romney said he would immediately give every state a waiver the first day and then get it reversed! You idiots that will destroy the country by writing another name in and give the election to the fraud in office to do all kinds damage to this country and to this entire world. GET A CLUE! I will vote for anyone who comes through the primary!

639 Romney = Souter II 

Guaranteed.

640 I've been saying Romney wouldn't kill Obamacare for months.  Writing it here, too.

It doesn't make one tiny bit of diff to me if the reason Obamacare survives in some part because Obama gets re-elected, or because some "Moderate" gets elected instead.  We're toast either way.

641

This is ACE at his best. This is an insightful post. For me, if Romney wins, I will vote for him as the lesser of the two evils. In the primary, I am in the "anyone but Romney" camp. His team seems so much like the typical Rep establishment. They are at best moderates. They "live" among the liberals. So they tend to adopt their way of thinking implicitly. As I suspected and anticipated, a conservative will have to fight not only against the left, but also the Rep establishment. They will play the "electability" card by doing the attack for the left. They will try to damage our candidates so that they can claim that they are "unelectable". So it is time for Perry to go nuclear on the Romney camp if that 's what they want. BTW, Romney also praised Obama for having the gut to fire GM CEO in 2009! His tactics are straight out of the liberal playbooks. In the primary, I am in the "anyone-but-Romney" camp now. Also I don't trust the Rep establishment anymore.

 

642 I'm in a swing state (PA), and I'm not grandstanding.  I will not vote for Romney...EVER.  As I said before, I've held my nose and voted for a lot of squishy nominees over the past 20 years, but I will never do it again.  If the GOP really has a plurality of clueless idiots (who think they're smarter than the rest of us) who give us Romney as the nominee, I'll chanage my party registration and stay home on election day.

643

From what I read about Perry 's performance at the debate tonight, I am down on him too. Sad! Now I have to wait for my plan B: Sarah Palin.

644 Mitt Romney will say anything to get elected. Once elected, he would do what the polls indicate is the most popular choice. He is so risk-averse that he would follow a moderate course that tinkers around the edges without making any bold changes to anything.

The problem with Rick Perry is that he is a less-than-skilled debater with the appearance of having too limited of a knowledge base for a run for the Presidency. Unless he ups his game, then he runs the risk of fading away gently into the political twilight.

Second look at Palin? ;-) Palin/Romney or Palin/Newt? ;-)

645 You nailed it, Ace.  Good stuff.

646 Very good post, but I personally know some of the prominent Romney campaign backers in my office and they have solid policy positions I think the majority of commenters would like. E.g., http://www.robertcobrien.com/ So, while I agree that "personnel is policy" he will have some good personnel on a national stage and will not have to modulate as he did in a state like Mass. As for me, I have not made up my mind, but I would vote for any of the top 6 Rs in a heartbeat over who we have now.

647 Romney = GNAT 'NADS.

'Nuff said.

648

I have been arguing all along that Romney would never repeal Obamacare - and to me, Obamacare is the signature issue of the campaign.  If we don't repeal Obamacare, liberalism has won.  Private health insurance will eventually fail and once there is central control over health care, the federal gov't has sufficent reason to regulate everything.  We in effect become europe.  Moreover, if Obamacare stands, the commerce clause is expanded to the point that there is no power that the federal gov't does not have.  So, if we fail to repeal it, it doesn't matter what else a republican president does, liberalism wins.

Also, I have been banging on the nobody knows what romney truly believes drum for awhile also.  This is guy that ran for Senate, then ran for Governor and was governor for 4 years, and has been running for president for the last 5 years.  And WE STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE REALLY BELIEVES.

Anyone who does not come into office as a conservative will move left.  A technocrat, establishment guy like Romney is going to move further to the left than most.  We will be lucky if he is even as conservative as GHW Bush, and I sincerely doubt that he would be.

I am honestly not sure if America would be better off (long term) with a failed Romney go-along-get-along presidency or 4 more years of Obama.  I don't even believe Romney would appoint conservative justices to teh Supreme Court.  I think we'd be lucky to get another Kennedy or Sandra Day out of Romney.  We'd more likely end up with a Souter

649

Plus, I don't believe Romney has the beest chance against Obama, despite current polls.

Romney polls well in head-to-head matchups against Obama b/c he is literally the generic republican.  The mushy middle has heard of him and knows he is "moderate" and thus safe and not scary and therefore are willing to pick him.  But, most of the mushy middle (like everyone else) doesn't know what Romney stands for - so he can easily be defined by Obama (and the media - which will campaign hard for Obama).

And, romney is a cautious, meek campaigner, so hard-nosed Obama will tear him apart in this regard.

Plus, Romney will not excite the base or independents, so forget about lots of dollars pouring in or lots of volunteers. 

And, at the end of the day, the best Romney will be able to do is say "i'm a lot like Obama (Romneycare), but allegedly have better management skills".  Well, most in the mushy middle are likley to stick with the devil they know (Obama) than try something new if no real difference is offered.

And, I still worry that a lot of evangelicals will not vote for a mormon.  I could be wrong, but I worry.

I just don't see Romney doing very well in teh general election.  I see another 52-48 in favor of Obama. 

Romney will sit back and hope that Obama loses.  I want someone who will try to beat Obama.  It doesn't have to be a 100% fire-brand conservative vowing to do away with all gov't agencies, but someone who does more than write a tepid middle-of-the-road op-ed weeks after everyone else has taken a firm stance on an issue.

650 There's a cleverness to that. It's good positioning. It's crafty.

It's got everything but principle and character.

No sale. Fiat justitia, ruat caelum.

651

what political capital ?  he runs on repeal, he wins, he repeals ...  no political capital required ...

political capital is accrued on your campaign issues that you win on ...  once elected you only use it up when you want to do something you DID NOT campaign on ...  then you spent your capital on an issue OTHER than what you ran on ... 

Obama had to use political capital to pass ObamaCare ...  But wait, didn't he run on reforming healthcare ?  Yes he did, but ObamaCare didn't actually reform healthcare, it is a government takeover of healthcare, that is why he had to expend capital to get it passed ...

652 Cucumber sandwiches and white wine. That's Romney.

653 Those calling Mitt a Rino need to reexamine their views. Go to www.whyromney.com and see how badly Mitt has been smeared. DonÂ’t spread the smears. Instead, learn the truth and start spreading the truth.