1 Doom?

2 Weren't conservatives all for giving up our Constitutional rights when the Patriot Act was passed? And bitching at liberals who were 'unpatriotic' for pointing out that the Constitution was being trampled?

BTW, dailykos has been complaining about these same things over the last year - and specifically this.

So you now are in agreement with the raving liberals.

3 It is not liberal judges who will protect us from this overreaching, it is the Scalias of the courts we can depend on.

4 What if Bush had..

ah, forget it.

5 Weren't conservatives all for giving up our Constitutional rights AROOOOOOOGA! Strawman alert! AROOOOOOOOGA!

6 Well if you have nothing to hide why should you care?
 
(that is sarcasm btw, just wanted to get that chestnut up and running before someone posts it for real)

7 I just finished reading The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins.

While reading I was thinking that this was the sort of world a Liberal/Green totalitarian state would make.

8 This isn't as simple as it appears on the surface.  Remember Colleen Rowley?  She was the FBI agent who warned the Minneapolis office about terrorists learning to fly planes.  Her investigation hit a brick wall because she could not search for information on Zacharias Moussaoui and nobody higher up would grant her the authority to do so.

Not for one second would I argue that the feds should be allowed to snoop through our lives unfettered.  But we need to keep some perspective here. 

9 Stories like this are why I advocate something like a UCMJ for government employees. That is, spying on your neighbor for shits and giggles is automatic discharge and loss of you ever loving, holy pension.

10 Benjamin Franklin is rolling over his Blackberry as we speak.  Hope his buttons are locked.

11 This just tends to strengthen my belief that for some reason the government is trying to make normal, law-abiding citizens into criminals.

12 And bitching at liberals who were 'unpatriotic'

When it comes to fears of being called "unpatriotic", methinks the Left doth protest too much.

13

The Founding Fathers would not have put up with this for a second. The Fourth Amendment is not some annoying little hurdle, a trifle to be treated as a mere inconvenience while "us good guys on the inside nobly go about our duty." It's there for a reason.

Ah...Mr. rdbrewer. You are so naive.

We are in charge. Now run along and get your shinebox.

     

14 Same as email. Transmit any information to a third party and you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in it. No expectation of privacy means that it is "reasonable" to search it without a warrant under current Fourth Amendment jurisprudence. If it's in a database, it was transmitted to a third party.

Another great example: police can attach a GPS tracking device to your car and watch everywhere you go for months on end without a warrant. Why? Because your car is in open view of the public everywhere it goes on public roadways. No expectation of privacy.

The Constitution in general hasn't kept pace with technology. Doctrines originally designed to increase protections are now cutting back on them. Just about the only thing the Fourth protects against anymore is someone physically entering your home.

15 As I mentioned on Hotair, this policy seems to have come just before Napolitano's Homeland Security threat assessment on right-wingers such as people protesting the government's policies and returning veterans.

Anyone care to submit a FOIA request on how many times this particular power was used on people who fell into this category as opposed to people who actually ended up in a criminal investigation, such as the Jared Loughners of the world?

16 poor JEA needs to stop reacting the stereotypes of people she disagrees with that live rent free in her head. The crimes or terrorism designation is lazily unconstitutional. You can't use war powers style intelligence gathering to go after civilians for ostensibly petty (or even major (although I think the mob-mob should be an exception)) crimes.

17

All of this shit goes back to political correctness. When you put up with the outlawing of "hate crimes" or "thought crimes" you are giving tact approval to the loss of all your rights. Smooche 'em goodbye, the constitution is being rendered moot every day.

18 So does this mean I am okay to break into the LA Times and get the Khalidi tape?

19 Weren't conservatives all for giving up our Constitutional rights when the Patriot Act was passed?

No, George Bush was.  And social conservatives were too worried about goddamned abortion and gay marriage to pay attention little things like the erosion of the Fourth Amendment.

20 Correction.  You said "(It's authority, not power, but they wouldn't know the difference.)"  That's wrong though.  They definitely have the power, they just don't have the authority.  Authority is "The right to act in a specified way", which they don't have.  They do have the power to go through people's tax records though.

21 And wherein the fuck is Boehner? Oh, he's out on the links with the JEF...

22 Papers please!

23 18 So does this mean I am okay to break into the LA Times and get the Khalidi tape?

Posted by: blaster at June 13, 2011 01:31 PM (l5dj7)

Are you an FBI agent or a major contributor to the Democratic Party or a low-level operative looking for dirt on an ordinary citizen who criticizes the One? Then - yes...

24 First, fuck you JEA. Go march with the fuckin commies, Code Pink, and anarchists and the rest of your "base", ya fuckin moonbat.

Second, is this one of those trap threads where anyone expressing anger or frustration with standing for this shit gets lectured about civility?

25 "...Another great example: police can attach a GPS tracking device to your car and watch everywhere you go for months on end..."

Actually they probably don't have to even touch your car or attach anything to it.  Most tires have RFID tags embedded in them so all a cop has to do is walk around your car with an RFID reader, record the tag signatures, and then look for those signatures coming off any number of RFID readers installed in toll gates, park entrances, rest stops, parking lots, etc.

26 This is yet another sign government has gotten out of control.  It has taken on a life of its own.  It no longer works for us, it works to keep itself fed.  The beast knows nothing else besides feeding itself.

9/11 surely helped that along.  Conservatives, ironically, have enabled it with Patriot Acts, redundant government spy organizations that are orders of magnitude more complex than what we had pre-9/11.

We keep giving up freedoms, until no freedoms will be left us.

If ever a re-boot was necessary, this country sure seems to be in need of one.

27 Just about the only thing the Fourth protects against anymore is someone physically entering your home.

Posted by: sayyid412 at June 13, 2011 01:29 PM (hTQiP)

If only 'twere so!

28 This isn't as simple as it appears on the surface.  Remember Colleen Rowley?  She was the FBI agent who warned the Minneapolis office about terrorists learning to fly planes.  Her investigation hit a brick wall because she could not search for information on Zacharias Moussaoui and nobody higher up would grant her the authority to do so.

Not for one second would I argue that the feds should be allowed to snoop through our lives unfettered.  But we need to keep some perspective here. 
Posted by: creeper at June 13, 2011 01:27 PM

It's either dumb or dirty to make specious, red herring points like that.  You know the walls she ran up against have nothing to do with my point about the erosion of the Fourth Amendment.  Your comment is directed at people without the expertise or time to understand.  You're talking to the uninformed, in other words.  Why so dirty a response?

29 CURSE THAT FASCIST BU$HITLER!! THIS IS JUST LIKE NAZI GERMANY!!! Oops, sorry, forgot what year it was. I meant to say, this is great, the government needs to be able to investigate and lock up all you racist wingnut teabaggers before one of you becomes the next McVeigh.

30 So hypothetically, can they now do things like say...take a look at a random congressman's Twitter account?

31 Tetragramm, they're abusing the authority vested in them while thinking they have power.

32 A thousand little Wacos and Ruby Ridges is what they are after.

33 31 So hypothetically, can they now do things like say...take a look at a random congressman's Twitter account?

Posted by: just asking at June 13, 2011 01:38 PM (BkQvr)

Or theoretically snoop into a sitting president's college files?

34 Meanwhile, has anyone noticed that Weiner is still a Congressman?

35 without making records of their decisions - WTF - is that for? Police have keep records of databases searches currently executed; why is this even an issue. If the case ever comes to trial - don't they need that date/time/reason. Ask all of the cops who have been fired for checking up on guy dating their sister, or their ex-wife.

36 I guess lefties don't consider having 500 union thugs showing up on your front lawn (in coordination with the white house) to be a violation of rights.

37 ¡VIVA LA REVOLUCÍON!

(Because this is not Little Hot Green Airballs)

38 Just about the only thing the Fourth protects against anymore is someone physically entering your home.

Hah, good one.

39 I guess this is a little matter of the liberal who cried "Civil Rights Violation".

When it really comes to your door, nobody believes you anymore.

40 Kinda seems like this snooping will make it real easy for Precedent Bootney Farnsworth's new Internets Ministry of Truth to ruin people.

41

Yeah, all of this and we get some dumbass in a previous thread complaining about some people in Texas wanting to secede.

Gee I wonder why you fucking genius.

Awhile ago someone (can't remember who) said in the comments:  "This shit keeps up and pretty soon we going to have to set off to a distant land to find freedom."

42

Does this mean the FBI will search databases for criminal connections to Obama? In that case, I'm all for it.

43 They told me if I voted for McCain that the government would rip up the Constitution and we'd have government jackboots invading our homes and stripping us of our privacy

44 33 A thousand little Wacos and Ruby Ridges is what they are after.
Posted by: sifty at June 13, 2011 01:39 PM (2dbd9)

Followed by hundreds of LA Riots.

45 O/T: 

Could have already been posted....but here's Issa's hearings on Project Gun Runner happening on CSpan...for those interested.

46 42:

Shh. We can't talk about remedies and redress of grievances. We can only flail about and complain. We start going down the road toward making it right and people get mad.

47 44 They told me if I voted for McCain that the government would rip up the Constitution and we'd have government jackboots invading our homes and stripping us of our privacy

Posted by: kbdabear at June 13, 2011 01:44 PM (so1xa)

You fucked up - you believed us...

48

first off the Constitution doesn't talk about privacy ...  never has ...  it does talk about unreasonable search which is what this is ...

And for all those "Patriot Act tramping the Constitution" trolls ...  please list anything in the Patriot Act that allows for warrentless searches ? 

 

 

49

Those in Gov't have never been fans of the Fourth.

Ever.  Now they are just brazen enough to put it in writing.

50 MWR, only if the sitting president is republican.

51 Just about the only thing the Fourth protects against anymore is someone physically entering your home.

Not if you're a Marine.

52 _________

53 45:

When the Tea Party / Union Goon Riots of 2012 happen this will make it easy to round up all the guilty Tea Partiers. Since we don't have nice official lists of our names like the poor innocent union goons.

54

Civilian populace does nothing whatsoever in 3...2...1....

The simple fact of the matter is that the Founding Fathers (well, probably not the Hamiltonians) would have been blowing heads off a long time ago.  Today, no one really cares about the steady erosion of rights and the increasingly imperial powers of the government, and they haven't for a very, very long time.

55 Guess how long this non-MIT grad over-ran, a CPA, and ex-IRS agent. Total incompetence, straightened out an entire Japanese Co. that was relying on outside help, and lost tens of thousands, for years.  I only do simple math.  Figured it out.

56 52 Just about the only thing the Fourth protects against anymore is someone physically entering your home.

Not if you're a Marine.
Posted by: Sheriff Dupnik's SWAT Team at June 13, 2011 01:47 PM

Not if your ex old lady skipped her student load payments either

57

Awhile ago someone (can't remember who) said in the comments:  "This shit keeps up and pretty soon we going to have to set off to a distant land to find freedom."

Posted by: Roadking at June 13, 2011 01:44 PM (i0z6l)

Has anyone gotten close to inventing interstellar transport?  Because that's how far we'd have to go to get away from this commie bullshit.  Earth is saturated with it, and the rest of the solar system can't be far behind.  The AFL-CIO already has it's sights set on Neptune, and the NAACP is lobbying Pluto to join its litany of the aggrieved (Pluto's been in a snit since it was downgraded from planet status, so it's easy pickings).

58 rdbrewer,

You do realize that under current rules the FBI can't do a google search on someone and follow the links without having probable cause?  Same goes for various official databases.

There is indeed some chance of mischief here.

Given the sheer bulk of information out there, it would be difficult (bordering on the impossible) for even the FBI to snoop on more than a very small number of people, which means they will have to be selective as a matter of necessity.

The key will be discretion on the part of the investigators granted the expanded latitude.  Failures of discretion will have to be dealt with quickly and firmly.

59

@3: "it is the Scalias of the courts we can depend on."

Hi! Have we met?  We don't much care for the Fourth Amendment, either.

60 Today, no one really cares about the steady erosion of rights and the increasingly imperial powers of the government, and they haven't for a very, very long time. Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 13, 2011 01:49 PM

And they won't as long as those checks from Uncle Sugar don't bounce

61

Er, Indiana Supreme Court...damnit

Sock fail.

62 Second, is this one of those trap threads where anyone expressing anger or frustration with standing for this shit gets lectured about civility? Posted by: sifty at June 13, 2011 01:34 PM (2dbd9) A honeypot? Now why would anyone do that?

63 Has anyone gotten close to inventing interstellar transport?  Because that's how far we'd have to go to get away from this commie bullshit.  Earth is saturated with it, and the rest of the solar system can't be far behind.  The AFL-CIO already has it's sights set on Neptune, and the NAACP is lobbying Pluto to join its litany of the aggrieved (Pluto's been in a snit since it was downgraded from planet status, so it's easy pickings).

And I'm pretty sure we know how the Department of Education feels about Uranus...

64

@14: "Just about the only thing the Fourth protects against anymore is someone physically entering your home."

Yeah...about that.....turns out, not no much.

65 They have RFID tags in tires?

66 It's getting a little warm, you feel it?

67 And I'm pretty sure we know how the Department of Education feels about Uranus...

Posted by: DarkLord© wants out of this global loonybin at June 13, 2011 01:52 PM (GBXon)

We are for all the Uranus we can get!

68 The key will be discretion on the part of the investigators granted the expanded latitude.  Failures of discretion will have to be dealt with quickly and firmly.

Posted by: Rod Graves at June 13, 2011 01:50 PM (mKMj1)

I believe it's this issue of latitude that gets at the heart of the problem.  Like rdbrewer says, the FBI has its fair share of crumb-bums who somehow made it into positions of authority because they gamed the system, slipped through the screening processes, what have you.  I don't want those people having the blanket authority to investigate me without any cause, and I certainly don't want them having the authority to decide what counts as a "failure of discretion" and what the punishments for such failures should be.  Government cannot get out of its own way when it comes to policing itself.  This is just inviting trouble.

69 Instead of asking POTUS candidates "what's the capital of Botswana" gotcha questions, maybe the MBM could ask something relevant like this.

Just spitballin' here.

70 65:

I'm thinking you folks should only send in single people on your breach teams.

71 62

Er, Indiana Supreme Court...damnit

Sock fail.

Posted by: Indiana Superior Court

Concept fail, too. Scalia is strong on individual constitutional rights, even if it inconveniences the government.

72 OT, anyone see a pattern here:

2006: Fontana High School riot (Fontana, California): Riot involving about 500 Latino and black students
2006: Prison Race Riots (California): A war between Latino and black prison gangs set off a series of riots across California.
2008: Hempstead High School riot (Hempstead, New York): Two days of fighting between Hispanic and black students
2010: Hempstead High School riot (Hempstead, New York): A whole week Of fighting between Latinos and blacks.

73 70 Instead of asking POTUS candidates "what's the capital of Botswana" gotcha questions, maybe the MBM could ask something relevant like this.

Just spitballin' here.

Posted by: dogfish at June 13, 2011 01:55 PM (NuPNl)

RELEVANCY?  You seek relevancy, you plebeian clod?  Begone!

74 Creeper, where did you go?  Tell us all about how the Patriot Act is just designed to stop terrorists.  Fill this thread with your loving concern for your neighbors and your honest appraisal of the facts and law.

75

People are willingly giving up their rights with the phrase "If you don't have anything to hide....."

Problem is that it affects everyone and crosses political preferences. From the overreach in the Arizona law to the MPAA overreach in issuing search warrants to people's homes to find movie/music pirate it continues and onto the ugly scenes of TSA thugs searching wheelchair bound mentally handicapped citizens. Political hyperpartisans have allowed it to be okay if it supports their particular politician pushing some aspect of overreach.

It is not Bush, it is not Obama. It is all of us who should be banding together to get the elected representatives to cut it out.

76

@45: "33 A thousand little Wacos and Ruby Ridges is what they are after.
Posted by: sifty at June 13, 2011 01:39 PM (2dbd9)

Followed by hundreds of LA Riots."

-------------------------

Black people got a lotta problems,

But they don't mind throwing bricks.

White people go to school,

Where they teach ya how to be thick.

Everybody's doing,

Just what they're told

Nobody wants

To go to jail.

77

Posted by: The Robot Devil at June 13, 2011 01:56 PM (136wp)

Well, guess I'm never moving to Hempstead, NY, without a hysterectomy.  I'd never want my kids going to THAT hellhole of a 'school.'

78

Has anyone gotten close to inventing interstellar transport?  Because that's how far we'd have to go to get away from this commie bullshit. Posted by: MWR

Still goofy but slightly more realistic: Seasteading

79 From the overreach in the Arizona law...


Bullshit.

80
2 Weren't conservatives all for giving up our Constitutional rights when the Patriot Act was passed?

So, your friends Eric Holder, Barak Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid enacted legislation to repeal the Patroit Act. Right?

Right?

Right.

81

We are for all the Uranus we can get!

Posted by: Dept. of Education at June 13, 2011 01:54 PM (136wp)

There's a dirty limerick involving Venus and Weinergate that's just begging to be written here, but I don't think I can do it the justice it deserves.

82 Dammit, off sock!

83 In all of this I am getting the impression that illegal aliens and Muslims (legal or not)  will have more rights than American Citizens.

Shit.  It seems that way now.

84 I don't care, Obama is awesome. Now where's my income tax and obamacare waiver?

85 Writs of Assistance? Never heard of it.. I'll leave it for the cables..

86 Looking at what the government wastes money on, I hesitate to call what we have as government. More a system to fuck shit up. Way too big to be managed. Our only hope is to cut the goddamn thing in half, before it consumes us.

87 "Years ago, my ex best friend married a particularly nasty person who got a job with the IRS. Guess how long it took for her to dig into all the friends' and neighbors' tax records. Guess how long it took for her to relay some of what she found to him, which eventually made its way back to me. Not long."

Sorry. I call BS on this. Browsing is a felony. Employee addresses are flagged (and have been since the early 80s). Celebrities and politicians files are also flagged to prevent people from looking their info up.  Most employees have no direct access to your records, and if an employee runs tax records on the same street they live on, TIGTA (Treasury Inspector General for Tax Admin.) will be notified.  I know of  several IRS employees who have been fired or gone to jail for this. 

88 88:
I know of  several IRS employees who have been fired or gone to jail for this. 

So it does happen, just most get caught.

89 84 In all of this I am getting the impression that illegal aliens and Muslims (legal or not)  will have more rights than American Citizens.

Shit.  It seems that way now.

Posted by: Jack at June 13, 2011 02:00 PM (kCT7A)

What makes you think that? Just because an illegal pays in-state tuition or a foreign-born terrorists are given the same rights as citizen or your tax money pays to support debt incurred by socialist nanny-states? Stop being such a whiner...

90

Still goofy but slightly more realistic: Seasteading

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 13, 2011 01:58 PM (qaU+h)

We've got some maritime-minded M&M's out there, right?  If we all dig in our pockets (and the pockets of our hobo victims), we might be able to scratch up enough spare change to throw together a serviceable platform using scrap lumber and an abandoned oil rig (if we can find one, or buy one real cheap).  It'll be like Waterworld, only not a shitty movie.

91 Elliot, call bullshit all you want.  It happened exactly as stated.

92 Aw, rdbrewer.  After your comment @19 I was scrolling down to get a comment window so I could tell you I love you.  I, too, am a fiscal conservative and social liberal.

But then I bumbled into your comment @29.  For the life of me I can't figure out what in my comment could possibly be characterized as "dirty".

My point was, and remains, that we are literally at war with Islam but we're fighting this one the same way we have every war since WWII...with eyes closed and pulled punches.

Somehow there has to be a way of getting the information we need without trampling on the rights of US citizens.  This issue is not black-and-white.  It is a filthy shade of grey.

I think joeindc44 is onto something @9.

93

>>> In all of this I am getting the impression that illegal aliens and Muslims (legal or not)  will have more rights than American Citizens.

Well according to Bradky the Arizona law overreach's so you are wrong.

Go ahead Bradky - tell us in detail about the overreach.  You can't violate the rights of someone who is not even a citizen dude.  See this discussion is about US citizens.

94 You can't violate the rights of someone who is not even a citizen dude. 

Posted by: Roadking at June 13, 2011 02:05 PM (i0z6l)

We are ALL citizens... of the world.

95

It is not Bush, it is not Obama. It is all of us who should be banding together to get the elected representatives to cut it out.

Posted by: bradky at June 13, 2011 01:57 PM (dJSpP)

I'll get right on that....Fore !!!

96 This is excellent news. I love the great hard working folks at the FBI!!!!

97 Sorry. I call BS on this. ... I know of  several IRS employees who have been fired or gone to jail for this. 

The fact that you know people who have done this hardly refutes rdbrewer's claim.

98 It'll be like Waterworld, only not a shitty movie.

Posted by: MWR

One word:  Pirates.

99 99 It'll be like Waterworld, only not a shitty movie.

Posted by: MWR

One word:  Pirates.

Posted by: Speller at June 13, 2011 02:08 PM (J74Py)

Three letters: RPG

100 Yeah, thanks for noticing my @9 comment. I think that chick who spied on Joe the Plumber should've been given the smack down. It's creepy.

101 Federal agents never ever ever ever would do anything to exceed their authority and do harm. Nope nope never.

Silly goose.

102 "From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide."

103 Creeper, the Patriot Act is not limited to the stopping of terrorism.  I can't figure out whether you're unaware of this or whether you simply want to score some rhetorical point for reasons of your own.

104 Sorry. I call BS on this. Browsing is a felony. Employee addresses are flagged (and have been since the early 80s). Celebrities and politicians files are also flagged to prevent people from looking their info up.  Most employees have no direct access to your records, and if an employee runs tax records on the same street they live on, TIGTA (Treasury Inspector General for Tax Admin.) will be notified.  I know of  several IRS employees who have been fired or gone to jail for this.

This.  I work at a state-level agency dealing in this kind of stuff because we receive info from the IRS. 

We have it drilled into us every year that we could go to jail *and* get a major fine from the government, then get sued by the person whose information was "browsed" if such an incident occurs.

105

Three letters: RPG

Posted by: The Robot Devil

Torpedo

106 98:

Kinda like saying that there are no drunk drivers because several hundred thousand are arrested for it every year.

107 You asked for a violation of our Constitutional rights.

I give you the F. B. I.

108 106

Three letters: RPG

Posted by: The Robot Devil

Torpedo

 

How about simple corrossion and rust. Does it everytime. Do you really want to spend your life picking, painting and welding? Then join the Navy.

109 106

Three letters: RPG

Posted by: The Robot Devil

Torpedo

Posted by: Speller at June 13, 2011 02:10 PM (J74Py)

Minefield

110 "From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide."

Amen.

111 As for the Patriot Act, it seems there are states who use it to spy on doctors who are trying to - you know - earn a living by not accepting the state's laughably low medicare payments. So, yeah, that's not something that anyone mentioned during 2001. Our bad, we had no idea it was in there. Let's keep it focused on terrorists, not on becoming a tool of the leftwing police state America's becoming.

112

Three letters: RPG

Posted by: The Robot Devil

Torpedo

Posted by: Speller

Carbon fiber nets.

113

@102: "Federal agents never ever ever ever would do anything to exceed their authority and do harm. Nope nope never.

Silly goose."

I concur.

114 "From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide." That sounds racist. Give me my government cheese, you winger.

115 rdbrewer, BRAVO!

116 We have it drilled into us every year that we could go to jail *and* get a major fine from the government, then get sued by the person whose information was "browsed" if such an incident occurs.

This happened in the early 90's.  Difference?

Relatedly, I was married to a physician.  You want to know how they perform illegal searches into medical records?  By going to an open terminal of one of their friends. 

117 I used to pump iron with a kid who was desperate to get into the FBI. Had his degree in Criminal Justice. He told me about their screening process. It seemed to me that any actual normal person would have a small chance. I thought that to be accepted you had to be some kind of weirdo. They investigate you back to the cradle. They even interviewed his grade school teachers. I lost track of him, so I don't know if he got in or not, but I know I would not have been accepted, nor would many normal God fearing patriotic Americans. I mean, who remembers why they got a paddling in 5th grade? You had to be able to address things like that. Does that mean you get the best people? Their track record suggests they may not.

118 @103: " "From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe and Asia...could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men we will live forever or die by suicide."

Posted by: Abe Lincoln at June 13, 2011 02:10 PM (6AXh/) "

Habeus Corpus? Never heard of it.

119 Abe Lincoln at June 13, 2011 02:10 PM

Critics here aren't interested in the musings of outdated, former Presidents of the United States.

/Watch your back.

120 Not saying I disagree with the premise of the post but it's about 80 years late. J Edgar was keeping our country safe under rules you could not imagine today. That you know about it today is a step forward.

121 Elliot, call bullshit all you want.  It happened exactly as stated.

Then call TIGTA and report her, instead of using it as a sign of Government employees lording their power over you.  TIGTA would love to prosecute a case like that.  If she is still an employee, she should be fired and go to jail. 

122 Watch your back too fella!

123

Habeus Corpus? Never heard of it.

Posted by: Abe Lincoln at June 13, 2011 02:16 PM (xy9wk)

Finally! a kindred soul...

124

How about simple corrossion and rust. Does it everytime. Do you really want to spend your life picking, painting and welding? Then join the Navy.

Posted by: Sub-tard at June 13, 2011 02:12 PM (Q5+Og)

We'd upgrade after we'd privateered enough treasure and supplies to make it reasonable.  *nod*  We just have to get out of the reach of the commie-socio-fascistic gubmint first.

The rusty oil rig shall be dubbed The Moronation

The plush cruise ship seastead shall be dubbed The Moronation, Flush With Dough and Hobos.

125 @105.  We have it drilled into us every year that we could go to jail *and* get a major fine from the government, then get sued by the person whose information was "browsed" if such an incident occurs.

That is why I called BS.  The idea that after all of the warnings, she would brag about her unauthorized access.

126 I also knew, on that very election day, that the worst was yet to come.  Not only an entire rip in the race-relations here, but, our very foundation would suffer and sour.  Higher unemployment.  Not much in new innovations:  already knew what solar panels do, (they cannot even light up a bill-board after a whole afternoon of sunlight.  It is dark.  You certainly can't warm a room or a swimming pool).  Now it is killing the lizards.  Wind-mill power.  Not only miles of ugly, most of them do not work, cannot store energy, kill wildlife, especially the golden eagle.....Where is Pelosi on this?  Why, she's out there protecting weinerville.  What else do they do?  These people are protecting you, the minority, who, although might be illegal, at least you want to work, unlike the rest of the unemployed, what a bunch of lay abouts.

127 That is why I called BS.  The idea that after all of the warnings, she would brag about her unauthorized access.

Posted by: elliot at June 13, 2011 02:20 PM (jY79x)

Elliot, trust me.  I, too, work in state government.  Many of the people I work with now, and have worked with in the past, are too dumb to come in out of the rain.  They would never assume that something they do is wrong.  "What?  But, I wasn't breaking any rules!  Those rules?  But, those rules are for BAD people!  I'm a GOOD person!"

128 That is why I called BS.  The idea that after all of the warnings, she would brag about her unauthorized access.

You can't fix stupid.

The head of my division when I first got the speech talked about how people used to go looking for copies of celebrities' tax returns in order to get a Xeroxed copy of their signature and/or look up the returns of a prospective date to get an idea of how much they were worth and/or if they were really single regardless of the rules.

129 128:

Anyone who can go into a Social Security or Motor Vehicles office and see the ignorant muthafuckers working there and argue against them screwing up is pretty crazy. All CAPS crazy.

130 Then call TIGTA and report her, instead of using it as a sign of Government employees lording their power over you.  TIGTA would love to prosecute a case like that.  If she is still an employee, she should be fired and go to jail.

I reported it twice.  The investigator was cranky with me and claimed she just couldn't do anything without more evidence.  It seemed like it was too much of a bother for her move forward on her own.  They asked a few questions of my friend's wife and got me in trouble with my friend even though I had requested anonymity, which was agreed upon.  You know what the problem was?  The investigator was also George Constanza or Gladys Kravitz, a dirty ineffectual bureaucrat, just like her. And that is why he is my ex best friend of twelve years.

Since the early 90's, rules may have been tightened-up.

At any rate, the dirty neighbor example is not the central point here at all.  The point is, bureaucrats can now search with little or no limitation.  Now imagine George Constanza or Gladys Kravitz virtually unencumbered by those pesky little rules.

131 SEIU.

Let's gaze at that a moment.

Who is Obama's civilian army?

Yup.

132 Carbon fiber nets.

Posted by: weft cut-loop

mortars

133 That is why I called BS.  The idea that after all of the warnings, she would brag about her unauthorized access.
Posted by: elliot at June 13, 2011 02:20 PM

It's bullshit because there are rules?  That are drilled into you?  And we all know that bureaucrats don't violate rules? 

134 There are no murderers because murderers go to prison every day. there are even laws against murder.

135 It's bullshit because there are rules?  That are drilled into you?  And we all know that bureaucrats don't violate rules? 

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 13, 2011 02:28 PM (9ESvi)

That's right!

136
No, George Bush was.  And social conservatives were too worried about goddamned abortion and gay marriage to pay attention little things like the erosion of the Fourth Amendment.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 13, 2011 01:33 PM (9ESvi)

Yeah, because Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (in particular, life at the moment) are totally cleared for eroding in the twenty-first century.

Shortsighted fool.

137 The very definition of shortsighted is not seeing the things around you because you are fixated on one or two things... like abortion or gay marriage, for example.

138 133 Carbon fiber nets.

Posted by: weft cut-loop

mortars

Posted by: Speller at June 13, 2011 02:28 PM (J74Py)

Pestles.

139 social conservatives were too worried about goddamned abortion

Personally, I just don't get what the big deal about abortion is.

140 Could be worse ... you could be one of the most hated people in America, have your Mom sleep with a teammate and your lady sleep with a player on another team, and then have all that come out in public right before you choke in the NBA finals and then lash out out the fans like the little bitch everyone suspected you were all along ....

141 I get depressed when I think of all the rights and choices that are being appropriated by our government. It does not cheer me up at all that in compensation I have been granted the right to violate others' right to life (abortion) and the right to others' private property (confiscatory taxes) and the right to impose a state-sponsored religion (Gaia worship).

142 It is possible to be both pro-life and pro-liberty.

143 Specifically dealing with this issue, a really well researched post at a constitutional conservative's website elucidated the chronology since the Civil War with 19th Century American judge rulings, each along the way following the first establishing a river of precedence to progressively rule the opposite meaning of the Constitution's literal phrasing. /As if modern revisionism is anyone's divine right.

Thomas Jefferson wrote that of all the branches of government, the one he saw most perniciously likely to zealously lead the nation into monumentally abusive authoritarianism and bondage was the Supreme Court of the Judicial Branch.

144 Personally, I just don't get what the big deal about abortion is.

Posted by: Dr. Kermit Gosnell at June 13, 2011 02:33 PM (FkKjr)

I know, right?

145 137:
Social conservatives are apparently able to think about more than one thing at the same time.

I can think about millions of murdered babies, some sick union moonbat wanting to teach my son Dick-Suckin 101 in Kindergarten, and someone tapping my emails and raiding my home all at the same time.

I can vote on them all too. Comes with the American citizenship, I think.

146 @141: "Could be worse ... you could be one of the most hated people in America, have your Mom sleep with a teammate and your lady sleep with a player on another team, and then have all that come out in public right before you choke in the NBA finals and then lash out out the fans like the little bitch everyone suspected you were all along ...."

Posted by: LeBrat James at June 13, 2011 02:33 PM (8/DeP)

----------------------

I suggest a nice long vacation at a posh resort.  Colorado's nice this time of year. 

147 the right to impose a state-sponsored religion (Gaia worship).

Don't forget me!

148 145 Personally, I just don't get what the big deal about abortion is.

Posted by: Dr. Kermit Gosnell at June 13, 2011 02:33 PM (FkKjr)

I know, right?

Posted by: Marge Sanger at June 13, 2011 02:36 PM (BAZ1j)

Vor oder nach dem sie geboren sind, wen kümmert das schon. Ein Ofen für alle.

149

What's the problem?

150 @145: "Personally, I just don't get what the big deal about abortion is.

Posted by: Dr. Kermit Gosnell at June 13, 2011 02:33 PM (FkKjr)

I know, right?

Posted by: Marge Sanger at June 13, 2011 02:36 PM (BAZ1j)

--------------------

Please, let's not bicker and argue about 'oo 'as the right to kill 'oo. Just get them on the trains!

Or, as I said in Conspiracy: "Dead men don't hump, dead women don't get pregnant. Death is the most reliable form of sterilization, put it that way."

151 We have 300 million people. How many have proven that their 4th amendment Rights have been violated by the Patriot Act?

152 Rod Graves:

You do realize that under current rules the FBI can't do a google search on someone and follow the links without having probable cause?  Same goes for various official databases.

Perfect.  I like that.

Given the sheer bulk of information out there, it would be difficult (bordering on the impossible) for even the FBI to snoop on more than a very small number of people, which means they will have to be selective as a matter of necessity.

For the first time in history, we have the ability to start an ongoing, up-to-date investigative file on every person in the entire country.  If we let that happen.

The key will be discretion on the part of the investigators granted the expanded latitude.  Failures of discretion will have to be dealt with quickly and firmly.

Ayup.  And I don't want to leave it up to a trusted, trusted professional's discretion who is trusted, trusted, and also trusted.  And so very trustworthy.

153 Ben Shapiro, cough.  Read him too eagerly, anticipating that he has one individual brain in his head.  He doesn't.  He copies.  Like the rest of you.  I am now in a very bad Steven King movie (they are always horrible). plot, same plot;  someone trusts someone, blood, gore, ensues, the end.  No one, in actually, is brilliant.  

  That's the hard course to swallow.  People love nonsense, giggly girls, a rack, (loads of racks),  the more the better.  A teat that gives off milk, the life-blood, vitamins, inoculations.  Men find this sexy and fascinating.  A huge turn on no matter if it is a pile of gel, that no one feels anything.  That is the great grandeur, along with tattoos.  Everybody loves them.

154 rdbrewer @104

Good dog, man.  How could you possibly have interpreted my comment as being in support of that POS? 

Since we're evidently not speaking the same language I won't attempt further explanation.  I have laundry to do.

155 Basic question:

FBI. Union or not? If so, which union. Having a hard time finding out. Which is odd because I'm usually not that bad at finding shit.

156 sifty at June 13, 2011 02:28 PM (2dbd9)

It was only a moment before Mr. "Unprecedented"showed up, himself...

A. Hilter at June 13, 2011 02:38 PM

157 154:

Check dosage.

158 Creeper, because you keep bringing up terrorism. 

159
FBI. Union or not? If so, which union. Having a hard time finding out. Which is odd because I'm usually not that bad at finding shit.

Not union. 

160 148 In seriousness, I am aware that some public schools have had students participate in Muslim observances, but I don't know how widespread that is. I do know that we are all constantly preached to about our responsibility to preserve the environment. Just imagine if Judeo-Chrisstian sexual mores were disseminated the same way!

161

 That is the great grandeur, along with tattoos.  Everybody loves them.

 

Nothing ruins a beautiful woman like a tattoo.

162 160:

I thought Homeland Security and the FBI won the rights to unionize as part of their new reorganization.

I know they were fighting for it.

163 Ayup.  And I don't want to leave it up to a trusted, trusted professional's discretion who is trusted, trusted, and also trusted.  And so very trustworthy.

Let me add that we're a nation of laws, not men, and no one should be asked to trust the very trustworthy people with virtually limitless investigative authority since they are trusted to exercise their discretion in a trustworthy manner. Because they are trusted, and we trust them.

164 162:

Or marrying Sean Penn.

165 It is already law that no warrant is needed to search through trash or government and public databases. But it is wise to limit such activities to active investigations, not the whim of an officer. The idea that the government can do indefinite surveillance of people for which there perhaps there is no reasonable suspicion - let alone probable cause - is disconcerting.

Imagine Agent 007 getting upset by an internet posting by John Doe that, while legal, suggests that the poster might have some ill intent (political, sexual, violent, etc). Perhaps it will start with a google search, move on to facebook. Perhaps an organization one belongs to, a friend one has, or other internet comments will play into the criminal theory (see confirmation bias) and 007 will show up at your house while you're at work to look through your trash. Maybe he finds something that supports his theory, maybe an unrelated financial record. So he follows you for a couple days. Still nothing good enough for probable cause and you're wasting his time!

So back at the office 007 obtains your IRS record. He compares that paper he found in your trash and suspects a discrepancy. He contacts corporation ABC named on the paper. At first ABC protests that 007 will need a subpoena, but the agent insists the requested detail really isn't that big a deal...and does the big national corporation really want to be difficult when it is facing an investigation of its own? So ABC relents. 007 writes up a report declaring that John Doe failed to disclose X income and provides the financial record to the IRS.

He doesn't even need to include what ABC told him, though it confirmed a detail to make him confident enough to formalize his investigation. But Doe couldn't challenge the lack of subpoena to ABC and ABC might be immunized from lawsuit under FISA anyway. 007 can say he pulled the record from the trash and since it's legal...well it's legal. So John Doe may or may not be a terrorist or a pervert but he will be targeted and potentially hauled into court. Or maybe 007 found nothing at all. A potentially innocent man would have been the focus of federal scrutiny. And the standard would basically be 'potentially innocent of any crime that might be discovered' in order for 007 to back off, unless of course it's personal.

And maybe 007's intentions were pure. Except all his poking around was based on being offended or unreasonably suspicious, not probable cause.

166
Social conservatives are apparently able to think about more than one thing at the same time.

I can think about millions of murdered babies, some sick union moonbat wanting to teach my son Dick-Suckin 101 in Kindergarten, and someone tapping my emails and raiding my home all at the same time.

I can vote on them all too. Comes with the American citizenship, I think.

Posted by: another abortion fanatic at June 13, 2011 02:36 PM (2dbd9) 

We're just multi-talented individuals, #146. 

I find it fascinating that many fiscal cons/pro-abortion libertarians complain about death panels ever since Obama took office.  Did anyone seriously think that the Left wasn't waiting with bated breath for the chance to pass summary judgment on Granny's meds all this time?

It began with the desensitization of the culture to the lives of our most vulnerable, and has proceeded to our next most vulnerable.  Social engineering stops for no man, woman, or child.  It's the way these people operate.

Everyone oughta watch the 10-10 video, and understand.  You can't just fight the Left in one respect, i.e. right of private property, right of fair taxation; you have to fight them on all fronts. 

167

Fear of the IRS was a HUGE reason for me choosing to renounce citizenship, especially stories like rdbrewer's story. I intend to be outside of the US probably for the rest of my life. I'm working on personal projects now to earn money when I move to Korea. Once I do make money, (aside from a broke US government trying to take as much as possible even from US citizens living abroad), I feared someone in the IRS looking me up and deciding I might be someone to come after if I somehow make a name for myself.

The IRS is the one agency in the world that can go after your assets no matter where you live. They have their own forensics group, their owned armed agents and they're not to be screwed around with. I'd hate to create something in the future, have someone at the IRS just decide, "Hmmm, I wonder...." and end up going through IRS hell. There was only one piece of paper the US government grants someone that would ensure they'd have no legal claim to anything I made in the future. Just based on stories like rd's, I'll be relieved when I get it.

168

Homeland Security and the FBI won the rights to unionize

 

Sweet.  Lazy DHS agents... on coffee break.

169 rdbrewer:

I didn't hear jack from conservatives when this was being debated except to hear people like Medved and Fox talk about how much we needed this to fight terrorism. And Limbrain bashing anyone who spoke out against it as being 'for the terrorists.'

So you folks are little johnny-come-lately to this debate.

170 The average man is a pretty fucked up creature. Don't trust them with nuthin.

171 DON'T WANT

172

Ben Shapiro, cough. Read him too eagerly, anticipating that he has one individual brain in his head. He doesn't. He copies. Like the rest of you.

 

I have one individual brain in my head.  And four more in the fridge.

173

"I didn't hear jack from conservatives when this was being debated ."

 

You don't get out much, do you?

174 157 sifty at June 13, 2011 02:28 PM (2dbd9)

It was only a moment before Mr. "Unprecedented"showed up, himself...

A. Hilter at June 13, 2011 02:38 PM

Posted by: maverick muse at June 13, 2011 02:45 PM (H+LJc)

How do you do there squire, also I am not Minehead lad but I in Peterborough, Lincolnshire was given birth to, but stay in Peterborough Lincolnshire house all during war, owing to nasty running sores, and was unable to go in the streets play football or go to Nürnberg. I am retired vindow cleaner and pacifist, without doing war crimes  tch tch tch, and am glad England win World Cup - Bobby Charlton, Martin Peters - and eating lots of chips and fish and hole in the toads, and Dundee cakes on Piccadilly line. Don't you know old chap I was head of Gestapo for ten years. Five years! No, no, nein, I was not head of Gestapo at all...I make joke.

175
JEA, STFU, dunce.

176 158 154:

Check dosage.

Posted by: sifty at June 13, 2011 02:45 PM (2dbd9)

Well, will go with the wittiest.   No, no, no,     You are the joke.   I can ,not do you,uglier than that precious.  Hint, hint.  I cannot go out in public without a whistle, come-on, some old man telling me to smile.  Ever.

177

It is already law that no warrant is needed to search through trash or government and public databases.

 

...and it's illegal to burn your trash. 

 We're working on a way to outlaw paper shredders.  You wouldn't believe the carbon footprint those things have!?

178 AMEN RDBREWER!

179 170:

If you think Medved is a conservative voice you got a problem already.

180 People will be dangling by their necks from lamp posts before this starts to turn around.

Seriously.

181 175 157 sifty at June 13, 2011 02:28 PM (2dbd9)

It was only a moment before Mr. "Unprecedented"showed up, himself...

A. Hilter at June 13, 2011 02:38 PM

Posted by: maverick muse at June 13, 2011 02:45 PM (H+LJc)

How do you do there squire, also I am not Minehead lad but I in Peterborough, Lincolnshire was given birth to, but stay in Peterborough Lincolnshire house all during war, owing to nasty running sores, and was unable to go in the streets play football or go to N�rnberg. I am retired vindow cleaner and pacifist, without doing war crimes  tch tch tch, and am glad England win World Cup - Bobby Charlton, Martin Peters - and eating lots of chips and fish and hole in the toads, and Dundee cakes on Piccadilly line. Don't you know old chap I was head of Gestapo for ten years. Five years! No, no, nein, I was not head of Gestapo at all...I make joke.

Posted by: H. Bimmler at June 13, 2011 02:55 PM (136wp)

Hey, what about me?

182

In seriousness, I am aware that some public schools have had students participate in Muslim observances, but I don't know how widespread that is. I do know that we are all constantly preached to about our responsibility to preserve the environment. Just imagine if Judeo-Chrisstian sexual mores were disseminated the same way!

Remember this story?

Wellesley, Massachusetts Students Forced to Pray in Mosque

/It may not be widespread but when it happens, but when students are forced to observe Muslim traditions, the result usually is this. 

183 "Well, will go with the wittiest.   No, no, no,     You are the joke.   I can ,not do you,uglier than that precious.  Hint, hint.  I cannot go out in public without a whistle, come-on, some old man telling me to smile.  Ever."

And robopocalypse makes its way to the Ace of Spades website. Might want to get that speech generator looked at, Archon.

184 177:

Wow. Request a refund from your English teacher crazy lady.

185 I cannot go out in public without a whistle, come-on, some old man telling me to smile. Ever.

Posted by: boo-boo at June 13, 2011 02:56 PM (Rx9BH)

Do you have to carry the whistle when you're off-duty from the crossing guard gig?

186 The very definition of shortsighted is not seeing the things around you because you are fixated on one or two things... like abortion or gay marriage, for example.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 13, 2011 02:32 PM (9ESvi)

Then cease complaining about how one topic isn't being covered, and help us cover all the topics, eh wot?

I wager that we social cons are just as angry about the metamorphosis of our children's country into a police state  as we are about the fifty-one-million-plus corpses staining our national conscience.  Why not join us in that concern?

187 Well, Infidel, I'm sure stories like the one about my friend's wife are few.  I don't put it out there as the norm.  I did note that she was  a particularly nasty person.

Let me also note that I had a chance to rant about my grievances to a gaggle of four IRS agents, upper level managers, who happened to be sitting in a judge's chamber where I was waiting to make an argument.  I told them about the illegal snooping, expecting them to reassure me, and tell me they would never do that or allow it.  Instead, they began looking sheepishly at each other, to me, and to the floor, and then nervously laughed a little about what I was saying.  Because they too had been digging around in Madonna's and neighbor Joe's records.

188

The details are sketchy, but it seems that the FBI will only be accessing various databases about potential crimes.  I think this is called pro-active police work.  Nothing wrong with that. 

Also implied but not specified is that agents will be exercising administrative subpoena authority, which they, and other federal agencies, have had since at least 1978.

You seem to forget you have no privacy in either public records, like a driver's license database or data-mining databases.  Nor do you have any privacy in your records at a business you deal with.  The records are the property of the holder, not you. 

So, don't hide your child pron in your google account and you should be all right.  Remember, the Founding Fathers believed that you only had privacy in your home or place of business, not that of another person.

Note that the writs you speak of were used to search homes and businesses, not to check public or government records.  In any event, a private holder of records about you can challenge the administrative subpoenas.  Perhaps to protect ones' privacy, one should only do business with those who agree to fight any administrative subpoena.

189

Hey, what about me?

Posted by: Ron Vibbentop at June 13, 2011 02:57 PM (UvFnc)

I am not a racialist, but, und this is a big but, we in the National Bocialist Party believe das Ãœberleben muss gestammen sein mit der schneaky Armstrong-Jones. Historische Taunton ist Volkermeinig von Meinhead.

190 So, men, tell me what to do.  I am not a Weiner, suck-on, nor do I care.Just offer the p;retence of a hot sexual wonderland  I am on the other island.  Never had to say a word, bat one eye, offered   Mercederes just by walking down the street,

191 26 Actually they probably don't have to even touch your car or attach anything to it. Most tires have RFID tags embedded in them so all a cop has to do is walk around your car with an RFID reader, record the tag signatures, and then look for those signatures coming off any number of RFID readers installed in toll gates, park entrances, rest stops, parking lots, etc.
_________

Aha! Another fan of Coast to Coast!

192 who happened to be sitting in a judge's chamber where I was waiting


So much is esplain now.

193 190

Hey, what about me?

Posted by: Ron Vibbentop at June 13, 2011 02:57 PM (UvFnc)

I am not a racialist, but, und this is a big but, we in the National Bocialist Party believe das �berleben muss gestammen sein mit der schneaky Armstrong-Jones. Historische Taunton ist Volkermeinig von Meinhead.

I'm not so sure about these "boncentration bamps"

194

Posted by: boo-boo at June 13, 2011 03:01 PM (Rx9BH)

I'm sensing something here.  It starts with "N" and ends with "utty as a fucking fruitcake."

195 I think Bonocentration Camps are part of the new U2 tour.

196 Ah, the liberal comparative exchange rates, one can't be concerned about terrorist attacks and abortion at the same time. Concern of one crowds out the other. PJ Orourke observed this mindset with gems like "if we have money to send man to moon/build a navy, then why can't we pay people to sit on their ass their entire lives having kids out of wedlock? As if there's some sort of exchange store where you can trade in a carrier for a day care or something."

197 #168 how about making a vow not to utilize any product or innovation of the United States after you get that coveted piece of paper that confirms your renunciation of your citizenship. By the way you can thank the 37000 US soldiers in Korea for your ability to fulfill your wish of renouncing your citizenship and moving to Korea. Paranoia is a terrible thing.

198

/It may not be widespread but when it happens, but when students are forced to observe Muslim traditions, the result usually is this. 

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 13, 2011 02:58 PM (9hSKh)

Christianity is dead in Europe and failing in the USA. The alternatives (secular humanism and atheism) are as attractive as 50-year old divorcee smokers at closing time.

199

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 13, 2011 03:00 PM (9ESvi)

Exactly. And I don't want to end up writing a popular book, creating a well known product or do something which would make 1 of the ever increasing number of IRS agents decide to snoop, see I was still a US citizen and find some excuse to try to extract hard earned money from me to support a broke(n) US government. It was a very real fear. And considering the number of people seeking to renounce US citizenship jumped from 6 to 12 times just at the office I went to, I don't think I'm alone.

Sadly.

200 198:

+1000

201 Help! I'm being watched!

But seriously, all powers are misused by some of the people some of the time. 

Half the population, and almost all of congress thinks it is OK to lie, cheat, and steal. 

So I think it is a bad idea to give our government any more power then it already has.

202 Stateless, you're creeping me out.

203 171 The average man is a pretty fucked up creature. Don't trust them with nuthin. Posted by: Stuff Jefferson Said vol. IX

That is taken so out of context it's not funny.

This passage is where Jefferson was quoting a British official to justify authoritarian measures. "Those who wish to win favor with Roderick customarily offer him those things which they hold most precious or which they see him most delight in. But it must be held in the forefront of one's consciousness that the average man is a pretty fucked up creature. Don't trust them with nothing, lest you court the disfavor of Roderick for-ever." (from Diary of Sir William Johnson vol. 2: Roderick Rules; 1760)

But Jefferson believed the exact opposite.

204 204:

Might have been Samuel Adams. I get them confused.

205

Oh, no, you've got the wrong map there. This is Stalingrad. You want the Ilfracombe and Barnstaple section.

You wouldn't have had much fun in Stalingrad.

206 205 204:

Might have been Samuel Adams. I get them confused.

ARE YOU SURE YOU DIDN'T MEAN ME INSTEAD?

MMM, MMM, BITCH!

207

Posted by: polynikes-EX Romney supporter at June 13, 2011 03:06 PM (xECRb)

Of course. I plan on making it to every memorial area of every American, Canadian and any other foreign soldiers who fought to give that small country freedom and give them my thanks, as I do every morning in my prayers.

And I'll warn the Koreans about where Canada and the US went wrong.

Sorry, I read your comment differently the first time. I've been on here MONTHS before making the very difficult decision to renounce citizenship. I feared a bloated US government charging $5 Trillion on the credit cards in 3 years, I feared them coming after any American, even those living abroad, for ever increasing amounts of money to support a government that won't stop spending. I feared the constant cries of "Soak the rich" which I still hope to be someday. Not having many assets now, it was the best time to renounce my citizenship. If ever there was a group of people who were going to tell me I was insane in my beliefs and making a huge mistake, this was it. I'd still like to hear any reasons you might have how America is going to be turned around though and I shouldn't worry. I didn't read any before. Which I've pointed out many times, should scare everyone.

America's still the greatest country on the planet. Right now, though, DECLINE is a choice. And America is choosing decline. And if that one piece of paper protects me from this and further broke and out of control governments, I'll take it.

I have to get back to work. I'll check in if you have any comments. But I hope you have a great day.

208 @117.  This happened in the early 90's.  Difference?

Possibly.  A lot of changes were made as a result of the Roth hearings in 97 or 98, including the addition of felony charges for unauthorized access.

@111. I reported it twice...

That sucks that she wasn't prosecuted, but based on the fact that your friend found out, they didn't just shit-can your report.  She was investigated, read her rights and interviewed (with union representation, I'm sure).  Maybe they couldn't make a case, but I doubt there was a cover-up.  TIGTA, like every other agency, has to justify it's existence to Congress by prosecuting criminal cases.









 

209 I AM SICK AND TIRED OF THESE MUTHAFUCKIN TAPS ON MY MUTHAFUCKIN PHONE!


Thank You, thank you. And thank you. Where's my check?

210

Right to assemble? Get a permit

Right to petition? Not at the meeting.

Right to keep and bear arms? Go ahead ...you go to jail.

Rights reserved to the states? What rights?

The statists have won. We are well paid serfs....and the pay part is changing too.

211

Might have been Samuel Adams. I get them confused.

Bo Jackson (White Sox/Raider) was a lot like Samuel Adams (Brewer/Patriot). And we've already seen the comparison between Bo Jackson and Sarah Palin. Could Palin be the next Sam Adams?

Personally, I think that Palin could be at least as good a president as Samuel Adams was, if conversatives decide to get behind her.

212 #208. That was a polite and thoughtful response and should be appreciated. But not by me . Fuck off.

213  #15 ... such as the Jared Loughners of the world?
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at June 13, 2011 01:30 PM

Who else saw this on Drudge at the end of last week?
/what's "paper terrorism"?

"The Sovereign Citizens Movement"
Bandera TX County Sheriff Smith has used a DHS form letter to promote wild speculation and foment bigotry against any use of the word "Sovereign".
Tim Gerber (KSAT, San Antonio) goes even further than the Bandera Sheriff whose so-called evidence of domestic terrorism at his doorstep comes from Bexar and Kerr Counties in TX, and from West Memphis, Ark. Gerber inserts the names of Terry Nichols and Jared Loughner as if either is named in the Bandera Sheriff's Press Release before scrubbing Loughner's name from the KSAT account.

"Chief Smith wishes to make the Citizens of Bandera County aware of a growing threat throughout the United States. The Sovereign Citizens Movement as it is called is a loosely organized collection of groups and individuals who have adopted a right-wing anarchist ideology originating in the theories of a group called the Posses Comitatus from the 1970's. Its adherents believe that virtually all existing governments in the United States are illegitimate and they seek to 'restore' an idealized minimalist government that never really existed. To this end, sovereign citizens wage war against the government and other forms of authority using paper terrorism, harassment, and intimidation tactics and occasionally resorting to violence."

From the opening paragraph (above), just about ANY criticism of government corruption is grounds for being locally identified and federally prosecuted. Under Gov. Perry, the State of Texas already illegally established precedence for wholesale absconding of an entire community taken into custody on false charges. The only tangible terrorism case in Texas (Ft. Hood, bloody Hasan) was swept under the federal rug, ignored by Gov.Perry's blind eye. We're not to bring up the unmentionable Keep Austin Weird incidents? One involved no bodies found after an air crash; and the other set-up a SWAT killing of a student studying in the library.

214 @163. I thought Homeland Security and the FBI won the rights to unionize as part of their new reorganization.

I know they were fighting for it.

DHS is a separate cabinet level Department.  FBI is a DOJ agency.  The DHS unionization was for non-1811 series TSA screeners.

1811 series employees (i.e. Special Agents from FBI, ICE, DEA, etc.) are barred by federal law from unionizing.

215 We're from the government and we're here to help.

216 #212 I hope you were trying to make a joke since Sam Adams was never President.

217 183 Thanks, Kratos, for providing an example. That was one of the incidents I was referencing.

218

Posted by: polynikes-EX Romney supporter at June 13, 2011 03:06 PM (xECRb)

Sorry, last thing. as to why I call myself Stateless now. I have Canadian citizenship, but Canada has Human Rights Tribunals where the government will pay for people whose feelings have been hurt to sue you. When you have a government like that, it needs to be overthrown, or you need to flee. We have Human Rights Tribunals. Canadian citizenship means nothing to me.

Despite the paperwork, I still consider myself American. I'm not Canadian and I was born and raised here. And I did come here right before my last interview hoping to see if a second American revolution had started. No luck.

I used to joke that having 2 citizenships, I could flee to the other if one ever got too bad. Sadly, I fear the economic raping by the US government and Canada has Human Rights Tribunals.

219

Posted by: polynikes-EX Romney supporter at June 13, 2011 03:27 PM (xECRb)

Whatever. Have a good day.

220 Funny how progressive claimed GWB was going to do this to American citizens the whole time he was in office and then they promptly do it once their guy is in power. It's almost like everything they warn about is projection from what they plan to do...

221

The only right the Left holds dear is the right to privacy, because that's what you need to kill your baby. . .

Oh, wait.  I guess you only get privacy when you kill your baby.

Every day I think it can't get any more Bizarro World, and every day I'm wrong.

222 warrantless searches ?

Open ended warrants have become the problem, particularly given so many precedences actually winning in court, law enforcement searching for unnamed objects/reasons, with or without warrants. After all, the 9th Circuit isn't the only American region holding up authoritarianism over lost constitutional rights.

True enough, no thanks to Bush for "Shock and Awe" over-reach in power. Sure, he delivered his blows with a smile. But again, if  you were not with him, you're against the federal government that no longer functions constitutionally. Whatever bounds he may have personally exercised in his administration were not literally written into the Patriot Act. Opportunism to augment authoritarianism was always in that Act.

The Road to Serfdom

223

Obligatory "you're only worried about this when a raised by commies socialist foreign born poseur is president" post.

224 Samuel Adams masterminded the "Committees of Correspondence" that got the revolution going. His committees were like today's internet--spreading ideas without going through the usual media. He also still makes a damn fine ale.

225 That sucks that she wasn't prosecuted, but based on the fact that your friend found out, they didn't just shit-can your report.  She was investigated, read her rights and interviewed (with union representation, I'm sure).  Maybe they couldn't make a case, but I doubt there was a cover-up.  TIGTA, like every other agency, has to justify it's existence to Congress by prosecuting criminal cases. Posted by: elliot at June 13, 2011 03:20 PM

I didn't want her prosecuted.  I just wanted the outrageous behavior stopped. 

226 And would have preferred to keep my best friend.

227 rdbrewer at 226 & 227.

That is a tough situation. I'm not sure there is a way for it to work out the way you hoped, though.  Depending on when this happened, she was either committing a misdemeanor or felony.  I give you credit for coming forward, though. 

228

Still trying to get my head around the idea why moving to South Korea is somehow the wise, sensible, safe option for someone....

 

229

I hope you were trying to make a joke since Sam Adams was never President.

So maybe he wasn't as good a president as Benjamin Franklin.

230 Federale:

The details are sketchy, but it seems that the FBI will only be accessing various databases about potential crimes.  I think this is called pro-active police work.  Nothing wrong with that.

Not about potential crimes.  They don't need a reason.  They don't even have to be reasonable searches.

You seem to forget you have no privacy in either public records, like a driver's license database or data-mining databases.  Nor do you have any privacy in your records at a business you deal with.  The records are the property of the holder, not you.

Regardless, I don't care for anyone else to see them.  I'm in favor of some kind of privacy bill of rights.  I don't care for any company to compile information on me such as my location and buying habits.  Their power to do so is based upon contracts of adhesion (EULAs), and there's nothing we can do about it.  Just because I let google hold some of my information doesn't mean you can go look at it.  And I do have a reasonable expectation of privacy, since no one person at Google can identify me or my activity out of the billions of people doing billions of things on a given day.

So, don't hide your child pron in your google account and you should be all right. 

I don't have anything illegal anywhere, but that's not the point.  That doesn't mean I think it's a-okay for the feds to go looking at anything they want.  

Remember, the Founding Fathers believed that you only had privacy in your home or place of business, not that of another person.

So why not let the feds quiz my doctor or pastor?  Who needs a privilege.  After all, a 3d party is holding the info. 

I realize there aren't laws to keep you out of Google.  I'm saying there should be.  I'm also saying, you should be able to do anything without probable cause or, at a minimum, reasonableness.  Some agent looking at Google on a whim is not reasonable.  It works against the spirit of the 4th.

Note that the writs you speak of were used to search homes and businesses, not to check public or government records.  In any event, a private holder of records about you can challenge the administrative subpoenas.  Perhaps to protect ones' privacy, one should only do business with those who agree to fight any administrative subpoena.

If I'm not mistaken, administrative subpoenas are based on the idea the person has no reasonable expectation of privacy vis-a-vis the target in question, no?

Like I mentioned, there needs to be a commonsense privacy bill of rights.  I don't want my browsing data shared with advertisers or law enforcement, for example, but there is nothing I can do because of the aforementioned adhesive EULA's.  And legal fictions w/r/t my expectation of privacy.  And tech companies have so much money and lobbying power, I doubt a legislator could get any traction on such a thing.  But we need one.

As it is, the only thing standing in the way of arbitrary and capricious searches are the procedural limitations in the operations guide.  Law enforcement does not need any more power.  They have plenty already.  And we're on a slippery slope here with these continual expansions of investigative authority.

231 #230 now that one I got.

232 Let 'em probe non-citizens all they want.  If we'd had a law allowing that ten years ago there would be a few thousand more Americans living.

But they can stay the hell out of my business.

Now, brewer, does that make you happy?  It's what I was trying to say all along if you'd bothered to read it with an open mind..

233 Great posting, would read again.

234 I work for the IRS and if I tried to look at my OWN tax account I would be shitcanned.

235 My sister and brother-in-law both worked for the IRS. He achieved a very high position and she rode his coattails to being a senior manager. Don was 100% honest - a true Boy Scout in all the good sense; he would never have used his power/authority for personal aggrandizement/entertainment. Janet, OTOH, used to brag about how easy it was for her to access details about rich &or famous people - which she frequently did, passing on stories about such people to her friends.
My point is: This is two totally divergent ways of treating government power /just in one family./ Do you think Feebies are any better or more trustworthy?

236

One of the most unhinged women I've ever met in my life was an IRS agent. She couldn't keep the job because she is a paranoid lunatic and liked to accuse everyone she knows of crimes against her.

She now operates a "forensic accountant", and offers her services online. She touts all of her experience with the IRS and her ability to look up personal information on just about anyone.

I only knew her online a few years ago, and she scared me so bad that I went into "internet hiding". She is a complete nutjob. Ever since then I fear the IRS a little more too.

237

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