How long until that's adjusted down?  Sort of like how the unemployment numbers keep getting adjusted up.

I wonder if some of the "things are getting better" is actually "things are stabilizing".  My gut impression is that people perceive the economy as no longer shedding jobs as progress.  Stasis fever!  Catch it!

But....everything that Bush did was bad. Everyone knows that. Cowboys are dumb. And evil. And they talk funny.

.

Oh look! Squirrel!

SCoaMF/T has spent $4 trillion trying hide the fact that we are already in a depression.

What's happening in Europe now is a warning which we seem determined to ignore.

"... when Obama hits 2.8% for one quarter -- just one quarter -- it's great."

2.8% is a very high C+, almost a B- ...

"That 1.7% rate for all of 2011? Also pretty great."

1.7%, for just about all of us, is a failing grade ... under 2.0.  However, for a man who graduated from Columbia,  it's ok. It got him into Harvard.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 27, 2012 01:33 PM (G/zuv)

It's "Mourning in America".

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 27, 2012 01:28 PM (8y9MW)

But, but...we haven't applied the Affirmative Action Curve!

 The stock market is still over 10k despite all the shit the government has done.

It's a good thing the Stock Market can't be manipulated by the administration!

Well, we'll see how the global economy holds up.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 27, 2012 01:36 PM (8y9MW)

Posted by: garrett at January 27, 2012 01:33 PM (+7fwG)

.

And they would be right. ....Because we are still in the circling-the-drain stage.

.

Personally....I am stocking up on Toilet Paper.

.

What! .....I figure that when it all goes to shit, we will run out of toilet paper. And they will start rationing the stuff. .....So I see it all now....no toilet paper, because my men folk use waaay too much of the stuff for each wipe. ....So, there I'll be, the one who will be having to wash all their shit rags.....in a big iron kettle over an open fire.

.

Start stocking up on toilet paper now! 

Posted by: garrett at January 27, 2012 01:37 PM (+7fwG)

Sometimes people ask me what I wrote today and I say, honestly, "I have no idea, I don't remember.

I say the same thing when asked, "What did Ace write about, today?'.

One little shake and we're over the cliff in a very immediate and very painful manner.

If someone can name an actual green shoot (no, you cannot use North Dakota--it's not a national indicator), I'd be glad to hear it.  Seriously.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at January 27, 2012 01:35 PM (phlKA)

With the devaluation of the dollar, inflation, and another million LEGAL immigrants...

We're in negative numbers per capita.

They just keep changing how they count the numbers to make it look better... much like the UnEmployment numbers.

If we measured inflation like the 80's? We're over 10%... if the 90's? Over 8%

The idea of of 'don't raise the bridge, lower the water', only works until you run aground.

Start stocking up on toilet paper now!

I've got two full rolls of 1-ply.   I'm good for at least a decade.

"That worries me. I always like getting the input of less-partisan types, because it's their beliefs, not ours, that swing elections."

I think the Average Joe swing voter test will be whether he can answer yest to the question: “if I hate my boss, can I tell him to stuff it and find another job in a reasonable amount of time?”  I definitely donÂ’t think weÂ’ll be there anytime soon and certainly not before November 2012. 

Posted by: willow at January 27, 2012 01:27 PM (TomZ9)

May have been the Night Train talking.

If I was receiving 1.7% interest from a bank right now, I wouldn't consider that a decline.

If your income were fixed to that yield, and your living expenses were rising faster than your rate of return, you'd be significantly less impressed.

Average SAVINGS rates are at historicly low levels... why?

Because people KNOW they may as well spend it, because if its sitting in a bank, with the low interest rates available, they are loosing money.

When Inflation, is more than interest, for a long period of time... saving in a bank is a Loser..

It's not the new normal so much as " economic realization" has not dawned yet. When it does and the average investor concludes that none of this debt will be paid you'll see that panicked run for the exit that always happens when economic bubbles break.

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 27, 2012 01:52 PM (lZBBB)

When I was a kid my mom had us start up a savings account to get us used to the concept of long terms saving.

When I was in college the bank sent me a letter saying that because the account wasn't worth their time, they would start stealing money from it until it was all gone.

Posted by: ace at January 27, 2012 01:53 PM (nj1bB)

Oh, now we're doing re-runs?  or did you forget that you used that one smacking around gaylord the other night?

How so? If I was receiving 1.7% interest from a bank right now, I wouldn't consider that a decline. Sure I'd love to see 2.5% GDP or so, which is a nice balance, but I've survived too many recessions (when I had to make a payroll every week) not to appreciate a positive number.

It's Obama, so I guess I'm lowering the standard. 'Don't raise the bridge, lower the water' or 'the soft-bigotry of low expectations' both come to mind.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at January 27, 2012 01:48 PM (phlKA)

Simple, REAL inflation is higher than your rate of return.  Key is that banks can get all the capital they need from the Fed for no interest, so why should they pay you anything for the use of YOUR money?

Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 27, 2012 01:55 PM (hOraP) 

If the government's idea of a big lie to sell a recovery is 1.7 percent, then things must really be bad.

Key is that banks can get all the capital they need from the Fed for no interest

ONLY if they do what they are told! 

I won't have them lending to succesful white businesspeople.  There's been too much of that in this country.

When I was a kid my mom had us start up a savings account to get us used to the concept of long terms saving.
When I was in college the bank sent me a letter saying that because the account wasn't worth their time, they would start stealing money from it until it was all gone.

Posted by: Oldcat at January 27, 2012 01:54 PM (z1N6a)

When I retired from the Navy, 15 years ago, I left a bit over $100 in a Navy Federal Credit Union Savings account... they just closed it because 'fees' ate that all up.

Hear ya.

OT:  Just had to sit down with a client and review documents for two hours.  His breath was so horrible that I think he'd just arrived after felching a Russian fishmonger's wife.

Blech.  I think I'll drop a steamer in the corner of my office just to make it smell better.

Things are really fragile for me and B'Gal right now. We have no money left over at all, but we can eat. Her health isn't all that great and I'm no spring chicken either. If anything happened to me, she'd be OK, if anything happens to her, I'm homeless.

Alison Rosen is a twit.

I would do things to her. 

 Things that would stain the sheets and leave us sticky.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at January 27, 2012 01:48 PM (phlKA)

1.7% GDP growth is a decline because it takes 3% to keep up with population growth. It isn't like comparing it to your savings account getting 1.7% interest, it's like increasing the size of your family expenses 3% while getting a 1.7% raise. 

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at January 27, 2012 01:52 PM (+lsX1)

The overall economy still is poor, of course, due mainly to housing being in the dumps.  But some sectors are OK.

I can only speak from the narrow field of auto manufacture, but we have too much work.  So much that it's driving down quality and delivery performance.  The Japan earth quake f-ed up the whole supply chain.  Also, the upcoming model change overs have every tool shop in the world building molds/dies at break neck pace.  Tool and die was a dying industry 5 years ago.  Now they can't find enough people to do all the work.  The school I went to offers a tooling engineer degree, and their 27 or so grads had 200+ employers chasing them.

Conditions in the fuherbunker are improving.  I feel it.

A. Hilter, March 12, 1945, Excerpt from private diary

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at January 27, 2012 02:01 PM (d0Tfm)

Hear ya... sold the house to get out of debt... working for 1/4 of what I used to make... and had to start my own business to do so....

But then again, I'm in Central California with an Public unemployment rate of 18%, and real probaly in the high 20's.

.....Posted by: Newt Gingrich, American at January 27, 2012 01:42 PM (lVGED)

.

Yeah. Make fun of the idea all you want.

.

But a balls-to-the-wall Space Program would create the kind of jobs that people are whining and bitching about *not* having.

.

Most people don't realize that the US being the leader in Aviation and Aerospace is what lead to us being the leader in technology. .....But it is circling the drain now. .....And China and Russia are the ones with a surge in all those high tech jobs.

.

It wouldn't require a huge outlay of government money to stimulate a renaisance in space exploration.......just some big tax incentives. .....That idea of Newt's about offering some 'Prizes' is a good one too.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at January 27, 2012 01:59 PM (phlKA)

Indeed.  And even if we could bring in the brainiacs, the fact is that the entire federal bureaucracy is a huge pile of incompetents, communists, and sundry traitors.  They will resist change to the bitter end.  Remember Condi Rice?  Couldn't even reform the State Department.  Don't tell me those people get paid small salaries and are irreplaceable. 

The beast is just too big.

Carolla has a job ... of course he may feel like its getting better because his only measure is the media spin, he has no personal measure  ...  but for the 16 million Americans out of work and the millions working part time jobs all know its not better no matter what the MSM spin is ...

don't forget that nearly every one of those 16 million out of work folks as a father and mother who are retired or nearly retired and they know how bad it is for thier kids ...  thats almost 50 million voting Americans who will ignore the media spin ...

 Obama said the stimulus worked and that without it, we'd really be hurting.

Bless that man.

Posted by: wheatie at January 27, 2012 02:06 PM (ALwK/)

Hmmm... interesting idea... Declare that US Tax law stops at 100,000 Feet... so anything Space Based in Untaxed by business law?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 27, 2012 02:01 PM (8y9MW)

I know, that's logical AllenG, so you can forget using that tactic with these mentally defective fools.

You could hit this guy in the kisser with a baseball bat emblazoned with the stamp "Obama did this to your teeth" and it would make him prouder to go out and vote for him.

It really is a mental disorder.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at January 27, 2012 02:07 PM (d0Tfm)

Sorry - southern Michigan.  But if you can take the cold, you might consider looking at what might be available up this way.  This is anecdotal, of course, but FWIW my plant does injection molding, and all the tool shops we use are slammed and can barely manage to help us even with urgent repairs.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at January 27, 2012 02:09 PM (+lsX1)

What you have to remember is that 1.7 isn't the real number.  Its the number that they  got from adding a made up 4th Q number with the slightly less made up 1st 3Q numbers, all of which were moved way way down once nobody was looking.

It's like Pravda in the old Soviet Union. You can't believe the actual words, but savvy observers could get a lot of info by looking at who was standing closest to the middle in the propaganda pictures.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at January 27, 2012 02:11 PM (phlKA)

Why does he need an excuse?

I've given my “drive by reports on what I see locally” in “letters to Miss Emily”- in my name link, but that are scattered about. I'll sum it up.

Emptying malls, shopping centers, & businesses. Houses for sale forever. Block long lines waiting for the thrift stores to open. Half of my black friends who want to work can't find anything, no matter how awful it is.

Inflation? Being a widower I don't use much detergent. Went to the store a few weeks ago to buy some- what had sold for $4-$5 last time were now $8-$10 a bottle. Luckily a new Dollar Store ( “where everything's a dollar...” ) just opened- boy, are they busy- and I got the house brand for a dollar.

Unprecedented!

.....Posted by: Romeo13 at January 27, 2012 02:08 PM (lZBBB)

.

Not a bad idea. ....Now you're thinking.

.

I didn't even mention Helium3. .....Turns out those worthless space rocks we brought back from those Apollo missions....are rich in Helium3.  .....Scientists are telling us that He3 could finally enable us to master cold fusion. .....This is why Russia and China are in a race to get to the Moon. ....To mine for He3.

.

It is being said that one shipment of Helium3 from the Moon, could power our cities for a year.  

I don't want to do the math but our population went up 50 million or so in last two decades...and there hasn't been a new baby boom. has there? It seems that population growth is huge, 20% so does that equal the GDP growth?

Posted by: joeindc44 - tebow's new lifting coach at January 27, 2012 02:13 PM (QxSug)

Have to add in the 1 million a year in LEGAL immigration.

Posted by: Reactionary at January 27, 2012 02:11 PM (xUM1Q)

Have you thought about outsourcing to India?

Ace did a post more than a couple of years ago on the coming of the new normal and how we're on the way of mirroring the shitty economy of Europe.

I don't why Ace abandoned or forgot about the idea because it proving to be 100% prophetic.

This is ace.  If he remembers where he left his pants, it's a good day.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at January 27, 2012 02:09 PM (+lsX1)

That wasn't my point. I was saying that even though it is a positive number it is still a decline because it is below the 3% growth rate needed to balance between population growth and growth in the economy so we continue to decline in terms of overall performance.

Is a larger number better than a smaller number, yes. Are we growing enough to increase the size of the workforce, no. That is my point.

Ewok don't need pants

YES!  YES THEY DO!

179....Tax incentives aren't going to lead private industry to engage in building a moon base that would have zero chance of turning a profit.

.

Hollowpoint.....the profit motive for salvaging space junk alone, is a pretty good one. ....We just need the technology to do it.

.

And as for the Moon. ....What we know so far about the abundance of Helium3 on the Moon's surface....and the potential for He3 being the clean, abundant source of energy that we have been searching for....is enough to motivate the Russians and the Chinese to go for it.

.

We still don't know what other mineral riches are lying on the Moon. .....Looks like Russia and China will find that out before we do.

OT

Drudge poll of Florida Readers

Romney, Santorum, Paul, then Gingrich.

Ironically this is my predicted order of finish.

Posted by: nevergiveup at January 27, 2012 01:41 PM (i6RpT) 

My company had a 38% increase in medical premiums and in order to afford it, dropped dental.  Strap yourself in and get ready.

We still don't know what other mineral riches are lying on the Moon.

UNOBTANIUM AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE!

Posted by: some guy, selling cheese at January 27, 2012 02:29 PM (sPO/s)

Really, can't Newt just build a colony in Wisconsin instead.

Zero Hedge picked it up too...

We still don't know what other mineral riches are lying on the Moon.

Spice!

Tomorrow is my birthday.  Am I really 56?  Where has the time gone?  Boy does time fly when one pursues building a Master Race and a society to last 1,000 years that will ensure Global World Domination for our perfect way of life.  Seig Heil me! <g>

Anyway, I think I'll go to the surface and pass around some medals (got a few boxes of Iron Crosses left) to those glorious Hitler Youth boys.  Whatta bunch of fine Ayran lads.

The prospect of birthday cake, a birthday BJ from Eva, and gladhanding those dear applecheeked boys fills me with renewed optimism.  Steiner's counterattack will succeed, I just know it.

Things are on the up, on the rebound.  Zippity Doo Dah!!

A. Hitler, April 19, 1945, excerpt from personal diary

Really, can't Newt just build a colony in Wisconsin instead.

A Newtist Colony?

Posted by: Joe biden at January 27, 2012 02:17 PM (+7fwG)

Thank heaven, no.  But perhaps just as bad, we do outsource some of the simpler mold builds to Korea.  They do a good job, overall, but the costs are going up.  US mold makers are getting pretty competitive with the better overseas makers.  More and more US companies are starting to wake up, after being raped by China's "cheap" mold builders.

A major customer of our transferred several molds to us made in China.  What total, absolute, unmitigated garbage.  The Chinese can't even put in a bolt hole straight - and I say that litterally - not figuratively.  They use the cheapest garbage steel available.  Poor venting, everything is set up for manual (rather than robotic) extraction, etc.  Thank heaven my company doesn't use any Chinese suppliers. 

When I shop, the working-aged men and older folks just stand in stunned silence when going to buy staple items.

I've shared in the grocery-gathering duties for several years, so I know all too well how much more expensive stuff is still.

Mrs. Reason and I still marvel at how four sacks of "get by for the week" groceries will run us close to $100.

The only thing that surpises me anymore is that we're still surpised.

And then I think to myself, "oh well, in another year, we'll have President Mittens to start fixing some of this!"  And then I weep into my big frosty mug of tap water.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, feeling all extra curmudgeony today at January 27, 2012 02:15 PM (d0Tfm)

Well, right now we don't have any contacts down in the nice parts of the country, but if I come across info that might be useful I'll post it.  And if you can do G-codes you can learn the new languages pretty fast.  The new conversational software is way, way, better than those old G-codes.  I've done G-code myself, and am glad it's going the way of the Dodo.  Of course, these days everything is getting to be contoured with crazy math data - a human couldn't program the tool paths himself if he wanted to and had a thousand years to get it done.

Speaking of prices, those Jiffy Corn Muffin mix boxes are one of my barometers for c-o-l.

Good call.  Even ramen is over a quarter a package.  That shit used to be a dime.

My barometer of choice is a gallon of orange juice, and the comparison of it to the gallon of gasoline it took to go get it.  A gallon of milk is still cheaper than a gallon of gas, but a gallon of OJ is easily 2x.

Posted by: reason at January 27, 2012 02:42 PM (sPO/s)

I dunno where you guys live, but I'm always puzzled when I read this.  For me, the price of fruit, meat, milk, and a few sundry other things I buy have barely moved in years.  I buy boneless/skinless chicken breasts for $2 a pound in the bi-weekly sale.  Pork loin for $1.90.  The less costly fruit I can get for about $1 - $1.30 a pound.  For me these prices have been the same for some time.

 --> G-codes

Take three courses in MasterCam. There are even on-line courses (12 weeks/$250.00). Much of the work is drawing a part (SolidWorks, Creo/ProE, ..) then specifying toolpaths. Trying to do a 3D contour is virtually impossible by hand, but drawing one, then specifying the proper tool path, tool path type and tool is very easy.

SurfCam and competing products are ok, but MasterCam has a larger /the largest market share.

...and now this thread has been killed by ketamines, bear mace, and Internet creeps.

Where's CSI:  Blogland when you need it?

Barry as OJ.  Complicated, but potentially awesome.

Barry's OJ. 

The economy is the dead wife?  That he killed in a hot rage of jealousy over... 

Capitalism, the dead wife's dead friend?  Hmm.  Potential. 

And Joe Biden is Kato, the dim-bulb witness who saw everything, but can't put any of what he saw together cohesively. 

And we're all along for the ride in a crappy Bronco, doin' 30mph with every cop in the state following us as we make our mad getaway...to mom's house...  Hm.  I got nothin' for that one.

"Posted by: Arbalest at January 27, 2012 02:58 PM (WfF4T)" Glad that there are online refreshers, that $250 is awfully tough to come by right now. But thanks for the heads-up. I've also found some SolidWorks videos on YT, if I ever get a nibble, I'll look over at the Khan Academy site too.

@218

Hey!  WTF.  Why do you want Newt to mess around in my state?  We got enough problems up in here with all the union wackjobs.  You bastard!  

@218

Um, sorry, it seems you were responding to someone else's comment.  To that someone else- You tell your buddy Newt to stay the hell away from my great state!  Wisconsin can't afford anymore nuts.