November 15, 2012
— Ace There was so much about this movie I didn't like it takes a long post to explain it all. (There's a lot I liked, in the beginning, too; but I guess everyone says that.)
Let me just make a general observation.
Space travel in fiction has two major tropes in its depiction. I'm calling these the Institutional Phase, and the Commercial Phase.
The beginning of space travel -- and this is the same for any previous mode of difficult transportation -- is the Institutional Phase. This is the period in which only rich governments or the sci-fi standby of the Large Evil Corporation Which Has Some Governmental-Like Powers and Attributes can build and launch a spacecraft.
The Commercial Phase comes later in science fiction, as it has in the past, and as it would actually unfold in the future. The Commercial Phase comes when the technology has matured enough to make it practical for small private owners. In the Commercial Phase, space travel is relatively common, almost mundane. It might be a bit expensive, but you can still cross a good part of the galaxy in exchange for a down payment equal to the cost of an old, beat-up Landspeeder. It's not cheap, but you generally expect that if you have a few thousand credits you can hire yourself a flight to almost anywhere.
The Institutional Phase is Star Trek; the Commercial Phase is Star Wars.
In terms of the look of each -- the Institutional Phase likes the color white, for both exteriors and interiors. It is marked by the NASA aesthetic -- stuff sort of looks like NASA designs stuff, because the Institutional Phase is nearer-future, so we expect it to look more like the designs we see in the present. It's clean -- often pristine -- because any government rich enough to afford a spaceship is also rich enough to hire on some janitors or, more likely, janitorial robots (though we usually do not see these things in space travel movies-- we see them more in near-future earthbound movies).
The Commercial Phase's dominant color is gray, naked metal, because painting ships white is an unnecessary expense. Sure, governments have money to burn and so paint them in the Institutional Phase, but the Commercial Phase is filled with private owners who are often short of cash and can barely afford parts and fuel, nevermind pretty white paint. The look is dirty and worn -- the "worn future" look I think Lucas called it -- for the same reason your typical Old West stagecoach was probably dirty and worn. Because the owner doesn't have a lot of money, and the coach itself is probably 10 years old, bought well into its obsolesence curve, probably from a richer company or a government office at auction.
Note that in the Commercial Phase you see plenty of Institutional Phase stuff -- the Galactic Empire has nicely painted hallways, and their ships are obviously much younger than the Millennium Falcon. The Alliance ships in Firefly are very pretty indeed. But of course that's just because Institutions continue to exist, well into the Commercial Phase.
That's the look. But more importantly is the type of characters you'd expect to see. This is important: In the Institutional Phase, you're going to have a lot of military types, and they are going to be highly competent and very well psychologically balanced. The reason is simple: if you only have one or two spacehips, but a population of billions, you can afford to rigidly screen your staff to make sure they're detail-oriented go-getter who Play Well With Others and who have proven in the past they can function well in a rigid military heirarchy (as a ship must be -- especially if it's an experimental sort of ship where Protocols Must Be Followed because people have barely any experience at all with this sort of thing).
Only in the Commercial Phase are you going to start seeing the kinds of people who would never get a job on a spaceship -- not even as janitor -- as the staff on a ship in the Institutional Phase. Han Solo, for example, is not only a career criminal, but he also yells a lot, trusts his instincts (and his instincts aren't especially sound), hits on his passengers, and gets into pointless arguments with androids.
Han Solo is a damned good pilot but he'd never have a chance to demonstrate that in the Institutional Phase. His background check would turn up all his previous Imperial Entanglements, and his psychological profile would tag him as a selfish, grandiose hothead who's liable to shoot at a door without first making sure its magnetic seal isn't engaged, thus causing a comical ricochet around the walls of a trash compactor.
Now, the Commercial Phase permits a wide range of personality and occupational types. The setting permits hotheads, mercenaries, goons, and Space Hookers. But in the Institutional Phase, you're going to have a much less diversity: Most people are going to be ex-military, most people are going to have advanced degrees (including the military people), and virtually everyone is going to be of a pretty well-balanced, controlled, cool-tempered personality type.
No government or corporation spends $10 trillion building a ship and then says, "Hey, let's put the Loose-Canon Rebel Who Plays By His Own Rules in command."
The Institutional Phase story doesn't really suggest a lot of personality conflicts, then. For this reason, if you're trying to be somewhat realistic about it, you're going to be missing something fun in drama, which is people yelling at each other and undermining each other's authority and making lots of wisecracks in dangerous situations where you really should be pretty quiet and awaiting your next order.
A lot of science fiction movies -- especially the horror-themed science fiction of Alien, Aliens, and all of its many imitators -- gets around this problem by killing the captain early, thus giving a plausible reason why the Chain of Command is somewhat in flux and people are backtalking their superior officers. Suddenly orders are open to debate and argument and outright subversion. Which is more interesting, dramatically.
Though not ideal, as a matter of shipboard governance. The sort of spaceship that makes for a dramatically lively movie is exactly the opposite of the ship you'd actually want to be on. When your ship is being buffeted by asteroids, you wouldn't want to hear, through your cabin door, that Han and the Princess are having yet another spat, and that even the android has grown so insubordinate over the crazy decisions the captain is making that he's had to be deactivated.
Anyway, bringing this around to Prometheus: This is an Institution Phase film. They establish that the Great Big Evil Corporation has put an awful lot of money into this vessel, and while it's not the first starfaring vessel, you get the sense that there haven't been many more than ten such ships.
And yet, who's on this ship? You have an extremely surly Punk Rock Geologist Rebel for some reason. This guy passed the psychological exam? First guy who tries to make friendly, post-hypersleep conversation with him gets a gruff answer and is immediately told "I'm only in this for the money."
Only in it for the money? You had a planetary population of ten billion (let's say) to choose from and you couldn't find a Geologist who was actually interested in achieving the goals of the mission? You just grabbed up the guy who had no professional or scientific motivation, but just wanted a hundred thousand bucks?
Were the all the other Geologists unavailable?
Even assuming this guy was "The Best In His Field" -- I don't think they say that, but let's pretend he's a Rock Star of Geology (see what I did there?) -- "The Best" is a silly sort of claim. The guys at the top of the field are usually pretty close together in terms of qualification. Who "The Best" is is usually a pretty debatable proposition.
Here's what I would have looked for in a Geologist on this ten trillion dollar spacecraft making a first-of-its-kind flight to a distant planet:
1. No mowhak, no facial piercings, and no facial or neck tattoos. Sorry to be all lookist, but this guy is broadcasting his philosophical adherence to the Cult of Noncomformity, and I think on this flight, I'll choose the conformist. Give me the guy with the Tom Cruise haircut, please. That guy would be signalling his comfort in an orderly, rules-based environment, in which following the chain of command is of capital importance. Which, hey! It turns out that's what this flight is.
2. A motivation greater than money. Money equals comfort -- future comfort, yes, but it is the currency of comfort. A dangerous spaceflight, cramped conditions, boredom, and an even more dangerous landing on an alien world are inherently uncomfortable things. So I'd choose the guy who Really Wants To Be On This Mission, because only that sort of person would have the internal fortitude and resolve to handle all the many dangers and discomforts of the mission.
And the thing is, given that this is a spaceflight to an uncharted alien world which will provide years of material for research -- I think I could manage to find a Geologist who actually was sort of intrigued by the whole Adventure and Furtherance of Science thing.
3. A guy who can actually get along with other human beings. A spaceship is no bigger than, say, a suite of offices at a corporate office park. You're going to have to see these people a lot. You're going to have to work with them a lot. You are going to have to be in their company almost every waking minute for the next year or two.
I'm going to go with the guy who's first words out of hypersleep, to a man who just greeted him and introduced himself, aren't a variation on "F*** you, I'm eating cereal."
4. A guy who doesn't shit himself and go stir crazy at the first hint of... I don't even know if "danger" is the right word What he went crazy over was the first hint of... a 2000 year old dead body. He saw a 2000 year old dead body and immediately said, "F*** this insanity, I'm going to go running off on my own down an unexplored cave, where I imagine it will be safer."
Okay, I'm belaboring this point, but you get what I'm saying. How did this guy pass a psych test? What the hell is he even doing here? I don't know if this guy would actually even be on board a spaceship in the Commercial Phase, let alone the Institutional Phase.
This guy is especially egregious, but half the characters on that ship should not have been there. Charlize Theron seems, at first, like the sort of controlled personality type you'd have on board but then you quickly figure out she's a brittle personality type -- her outward iciness masking treacherously cold water churning underneath -- and she has sex with the Captain like six days into the mission. I would expect she could hold out longer than that.
The Captain is quirky -- I guess you can have a quirky person on board -- but he's also a lunatic. He plays a snatch of Steven Stills' Love The One You're With and then is shocked that Charlize Theron doesn't know who Steven Stills is.
In 2095, Steven Stills is still a thing? People didn't know who he was in nineteen ninety-five, dude. Why the hell would you expect her to know Steven Stills, and chuckle over her ignorance? Did you also expect her to know who Kajagoogoo is?
The only people who seem to belong on the ship are the crewmembers who never say a word, because at least those guys do not betray their utter lack of psychological unfitness for the mission.
So, what I think Scott did was this: He wanted quirkiness. He wanted People Motivated By Money. He wanted dirty people on board the ship. He wanted Tensions In The Chain of Command.
Essentially he wanted to remake Alien, then. But those things all seemed to work in Alien because Alien was set, pretty damn explicitly, in the Commerical Phase. Alien was about, as everyone calls them, Space Truckers. Makes sense that Yaphet Kotto and Harry Dean Stanton would only be in it for the money. Space Truckers don't get into Space Trucking for Love of Space Trucking. It's a job. They want to get paid.
Prometheus is set hundreds of years earlier in the Institutional Phase. There shouldn't be any Space Truckers, there shouldn't be any surly cowardly mohawked mercenary geologists on board ("Why did I get into Exoplanetary Geology? For the money, of course. You can really make a killing in Exoplanetary Geology"), and the Chief Corporate Officer should not be some strange mix of Ice Princess and Space Whore.
This was a really bad movie overall. I kind of hated it, hated everything past the first forty minutes. I hated it for a lot of reasons. I didn't really hate it for this reason, the plausibility of Commercial Phase character types in an Institutional Phase mission. This would be a nitpick I'd ignore if the movie weren't so awful.
But it is awful, and I think this is a halfway interesting point, so I'm just writing about this thing.
But all the rest of it was bad too.
Except the beginning parts.
It's very sad that even someone like Ridley Scott just remakes a movie -- Prometheus is just a very dumb remake of Alien with better special effects but far less impact. It's just sad that he thought he had to stay so close to Alien, down the the Space Trucker idea, even though it made no sense whatsoever in the movie's story.
Here's What I Mean: I forgot about this example.
So, they just landed on the planet. Literally, they landed on an alien, unexplored world not ten minutes ago.
It's almost dark, and the Captain -- the Captain -- says "It's getting dark, we'll make camp for the night, and go out to the ruins at dawn."
And the Scientist says, "No, I've been waiting for this for five years, I'm going now!" He literally says that, or something very close to that.
And then everyone goes now.
...?
This is what happens on a spaceship? A captain gives an order about safety, and securing the ship and the landing area, and when he will permit people to venture out, and then a passenger/specialist with no rank whatsoever gives a contrary order based on Enthusiasm and Devil May Care Excitement and everyone says, "Hey, let's listen to the stubble-bearded scientist guy, the captain's all wet"?
This is what happens on interstellar spaceflights to unknown alien worlds which are strongly suspected to be inhabited? (That's the whole point, they think there's life on the planet.)
People just sort of make up their own minds about whether the Captain has authority to give orders, or the stubble-bearded, over-emotional drunk of a scientist does?
I could see this happening in Star Wars. Han gives an order, and Leia, being Leia, decides to be Her Bratty Worshipfulness and just blows him off and runs outside. (Except it would be Leia urging caution, and Han ignoring her, but it could happen the other way. Leia likes defying Han.)
Star Wars is commercial phase, and also comical. They're funny movies. They have a comedic spirit. (The originals, I mean.)
But in a "realistic, serious" movie about an Institutional Phase first exploration of an inhabited alien world? The Captain gives an order, and the crew -- who, incidentally, he could literally kill with a pistol for being insubordinate and risking the safety of the ship; he has that power as captain, presumably, as a captain has now-- just decides "The hell with Captain Poo Poo Pants, he's a big fuddy-duddy; a rigid military heirarchy is a green light to do whatever you want and make all of your dreams come true!" ?
Really? That's serious and realistic?
Posted by: Ace at
10:43 AM
| Comments (598)
Post contains 2722 words, total size 16 kb.
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 10:46 AM (QupBk)
When does it go from "brief" to "concise"?
Posted by: red sweater at November 15, 2012 10:47 AM (CUi62)
Posted by: phreshone at November 15, 2012 10:48 AM (MAhUT)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 10:48 AM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Daybrother at November 15, 2012 10:49 AM (+paCV)
Posted by: © Sponge at November 15, 2012 10:50 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: Daybrother at November 15, 2012 10:51 AM (+paCV)
Posted by: mallfly at November 15, 2012 10:51 AM (bJm7W)
Posted by: Walkers! at November 15, 2012 10:51 AM (7l6VK)
Posted by: sophistahick at November 15, 2012 10:52 AM (UhXzR)
Posted by: mallfly at November 15, 2012 10:52 AM (bJm7W)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 10:53 AM (5DR1j)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 10:53 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 10:53 AM (5DR1j)
Posted by: mallfly at November 15, 2012 10:53 AM (bJm7W)
Posted by: sophistahick at November 15, 2012 10:53 AM (UhXzR)
Posted by: Mr pink at November 15, 2012 10:53 AM (EJr9e)
And you are right, flakes and psychos not wanted.
Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 10:53 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 10:53 AM (B/VB5)
Its funny how most the sci-fi uses 'credits' as the name for money. Technically, we are kinda there, since 97% of US dollars are just electronic anyway. Some futuristic stories use some other term, but a lot of writers go for 'credits'. I predict by 2030 we will have a worldwide 'credit' as everybody's money. We will really be boned then.
As far as this movie, I think I will skip it, unless there are Charlize boobs again, in which I will watch until that part.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 10:53 AM (3BbLJ)
I've just realized that my wife still hasn't seen this movie. I need to check to see if it's been added to the Netflix streaming catalog recently.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 10:54 AM (4+LTj)
Posted by: eureka! at November 15, 2012 10:54 AM (UL+ny)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 10:54 AM (+paCV)
Ace: ..."This was a really bad movie overall. I kind of hated it, hated everything past the first forty minutes."
-----
Yeah, Ace...it was a waste of good special effects.
The timeline is still very hazy to me...in all of these 'Alien' movies.
Prometheus made it even hazier.
And I still don't see the technology level displayed, to support being able to create 'androids' of the advanced level that are displayed in all these 'Alien' movies.
Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 10:54 AM (ICEh3)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 10:54 AM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Inquisitive Perv at November 15, 2012 10:55 AM (VkUP+)
It *started* short.
Then it became long.
So I changed the headline to make a joke about that.
I hated this g***amn movie.
The first rule about jokes about the length of ace's posts: You DO NOT MAKE JOKES ABOUT THE LENGTH OF ACE'S POSTS!
Posted by: Lurking Canuck at November 15, 2012 10:55 AM (BrQrN)
Posted by: Dang at November 15, 2012 10:55 AM (R18D0)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 10:55 AM (LCRYB)
So if I'm already paying for Netflix or cable, then.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 10:56 AM (4+LTj)
In general people want to watch movies about people as smart or smarter than themselves - disagreeable characters with bad judgment not so much. if I wanted to see that I'd just go visit my cousins.
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 10:56 AM (pAlYe)
Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 10:57 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 15, 2012 10:57 AM (lOmbq)
For instance, a lot of people hated the second Transformers movie. I liked it. I liked it because I got exactly what I was expecting- a bunch of giant robots beating each other up, and explosions.
That I had to put up with Shia LaBouf was a sacrifice, I'll admit, but I also got to stare at Megan Fox, so I call that a wash.
People were complaining about the story, and the acting. I didn't care about those, I cared about giant robot fights and explosions. Also Megan Fox's hot bod.
So, all of that is to say, is there any set of expectations (beyond, "yeah, it's going to suck") that would make Prometheus worth watching?
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 10:57 AM (5DR1j)
Posted by: Rob McNeece at November 15, 2012 10:57 AM (hNXHo)
Posted by: mallfly at November 15, 2012 10:57 AM (bJm7W)
Even with the "Pan Am" product placement, 2001 was an Institutional Phase movie.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 10:57 AM (4+LTj)
Posted by: the antichrist at November 15, 2012 10:57 AM (xXhWA)
If you haven't read the ORIGINAL SCRIPT for Prometheus that someone here (was it rdbrewer?) posted on the sidebar, you really, really should. It actually answers several of your complaints (well, everyone's complaints) about the plausibility of the characters and their behaviors, as well as filling in plot holes. It would have been a fine, honorable prequel to Alien (which, as some here know, is my single favorite movie of all time).
Apparently the real story about why Prometheus came out as something so narratively and characterizationally messed-up is because Scott was under the gun budget-wise: the original script was a far more impressive movie...but would have been much, much more expensive to film, in terms of SFX. So Damon Lindelof was brought in to rewrite it with an eye towards reducing the final price tag. The final dog's breakfast is what we got as a result.
Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2012 10:58 AM (QZYtq)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 10:58 AM (LCRYB)
Watch it with the sound off and music playing, and *maybe.*
Posted by: Knemon at November 15, 2012 10:59 AM (ZPhyj)
Posted by: Butters at November 15, 2012 10:59 AM (NIZHJ)
Agree -- it could have been better, but I was still entertained.
Posted by: Anabolic State at November 15, 2012 11:00 AM (kTDu2)
That's the difference between good writing and good storytelling. Prometheus had a story that wasn't at all interesting. And hardly any character development to speak of.
Posted by: OregonMuse at November 15, 2012 11:00 AM (9GaPd)
Well, that's another 15 minutes I'll never get back.
Posted by: DumboTheAvenger at November 15, 2012 11:00 AM (XrGnJ)
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at November 15, 2012 11:00 AM (9+ccr)
"But it is awful, and I think this is a halfway interesting point, so I'm just writing about this thing.
But all the rest of it was bad too."
Said it on another thread, Ace, but it's an oil painting. About puppets. When a movie has me not care if any character lives or dies, it really just a glossy trade publication. And, spoiler alert, no boobies.
Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:01 AM (BoE3Z)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 11:01 AM (+paCV)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 11:01 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 11:02 AM (ou/rY)
41My biggest complaint was that almost none of the characters were likeable. That plus their tendency to do dumb, inexplicable things made it hard to care about what happens to them.
--------------
One of the worst examples of this...was at the end, when Charlize Theron's character allowed herself to be crushed by the giant ship.
She didn't even try to get out of it's way!
She stayed in the obvious path it was falling in.
Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 11:02 AM (ICEh3)
Aliens is (sort-of) sci-fi.
Okay, if it's not fun, I'll skip it.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 11:02 AM (5DR1j)
Regarding Trek: when it works, it's sci-fi. One of the forms of sci-fi is how technology interacts with humanity, and Trek's got that. Sometimes.
Star Wars is definitely Cambellian Epic Hero stuff, as is the execrable Star Trek reboot.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 11:02 AM (4+LTj)
Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 03:01 PM (BoE3Z)
That's not a spoiler. That's a PSA.
Posted by: Concern Troll at November 15, 2012 11:02 AM (b1iOR)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 11:02 AM (QupBk)
I had read that somewhere else also. Which is why I have no intention of seeing it. I watch movies mainly to be entertained. I don't need to "pay" to be depressed and pissed off. Choomboy accomplishes that enough already.
Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:02 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:48 PM (LCRYB)
I think that you are overlooking some fine qualities. The film itself was technically quite fine. The sets were great, the cinematography was excellent, etc. Even the 3D was well done.
And...I think the premise was fantastic. A bunch of lunatic engineers who like to fuck with other planets with their fantastic technology, and then blow it all up when it doesn't work?
Sounds like Obama and the Democrats, except for the fantastic technology.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 11:02 AM (GsoHv)
Posted by: Fritz at November 15, 2012 11:03 AM (/ZZCn)
is there any set of expectations (beyond, "yeah, it's going to suck") that would make Prometheus worth watching?
I hear Theron's ass looks Aeon Flux tight?
Posted by: Lurking Canuck at November 15, 2012 11:03 AM (BrQrN)
So which is worse, this or avatar? I couldn't last more than 45 minutes of that piece of crap with those stupid blue people. I considered suicide watching that thing. This is from someone who mildly enjoyed Sharktopus vs Crocasaurous.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 11:03 AM (3BbLJ)
http://preview.tinyurl.com/atsyd6m
Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 11:04 AM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 11:04 AM (3Y7RV)
I think that you are overlooking some fine qualities. The film itself was technically quite fine. The sets were great, the cinematography was excellent, etc. Even the 3D was well done."
A Prius commercial.
Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:04 AM (BoE3Z)
Didn't see the movie yet. I did see where someone wrote that it was alluded the Alien from Alien was a product of thier screwing with the black ooze stuff.
Of course, that would cause a continuity error as the Predator v. Aliens movies are present day, and yeah, Aliens.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:04 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 11:04 AM (U1kBg)
but it's annoying as hell because much of the time you can't tell where one robot begins and the other ends and you can't tell if the 'good' robot is winning or losing.
Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 15, 2012 11:04 AM (SDkq3)
Posted by: tasker at November 15, 2012 11:05 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at November 15, 2012 11:05 AM (QF8uk)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:58 PM (LCRYB)
Okay, this is an excellent point, or rather a fact. It is unassailable.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 11:05 AM (GsoHv)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 11:05 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 11:05 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: Mr pink at November 15, 2012 11:06 AM (EJr9e)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 11:06 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: tasker at November 15, 2012 11:06 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:06 AM (da5Wo)
Posted by: Raving Lunatic at November 15, 2012 11:07 AM (reXpC)
Is that you, Harry Plinkett?
Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:07 AM (BoE3Z)
Posted by: robot janitor union at November 15, 2012 11:07 AM (nkiQM)
Posted by: dananjcon out of self imposed political blog exile to say Oy my head hurts at November 15, 2012 11:08 AM (jvd3N)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 11:08 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 11:08 AM (ou/rY)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:08 AM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Jean at November 15, 2012 11:08 AM (+oKKW)
Promethius was a jumbled mess. Now, the original Alien was a sci-fi/horror masterpiece. I was all up for a good prequel, which ProM wasn't. It was a disappointment, even with RS at the helm, and I don't care why. The budget excuse is particularly lame, someone with RS's reputation should be able to get anything he wishes from a studio.
But I did manage to scrape $17 to go watch it in Imax 3-D, which I'd never seen before, so that was pretty kewl. If they release the Director's Cut in time for the Holidays, I'll ask Santa for the DVD. Other than that, meh.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 15, 2012 11:09 AM (lOmbq)
Posted by: ChrisValentine at November 15, 2012 11:09 AM (j6QBF)
Posted by: dantesed at November 15, 2012 11:09 AM (se6KE)
Posted by: wm flip at November 15, 2012 11:09 AM (lB/5N)
Posted by: Michael the Hobbitt at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (hzV1U)
Firefly. Browncoats unite!
Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (+rAQb)
I happen to like ace's movie reveiws.
Next up - music review of "Burning down the House" and "The Roof is on Fire." Hopefully we can do "Backdraft" at some point before an indy project I'm working on, "Things are really screwed up, thanks you assholes, let the mother burn." Why? Some men just like to watch the world burn.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (ou/rY)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (X3lox)
I hated this POS too. But what is still bothering me is simply this, why were the giants (you know the creators of human kind) so pissed off? Why were they such angry fuckers?
Posted by: Sgt. Fury at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (wmR6i)
I take it you never played Traveller all the way to the end, and met Grandfather.
Pretty much the premise behind the whole game.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (4+LTj)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (jucos)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (LCRYB)
Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (TMG3G)
I bought a copy of it and never finished it. I thought it sucked.
Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (+paCV)
There's actually a good, practical reason for all that white paint and clean interiors in the Institutional Phase that really should carry over into Commercial Phase. White paint on the interior allows you to easily identify fluid leaks, arcing electrical lines etc. When a simple maintenance problem can lead to explosive decompression and asphyxiation, fault identification is really high on the list of things to catch early.
As for the movie itself, a big part of the problem is that fucking awful music. Belongs in a bad Star Trek TNG episode, not a feature film with an impeccable scifi pedigree.
And appropriately, I'm wearing my Weyland/Yutani "Building Better Worlds" T-shirt to work today.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (TIIx5)
Posted by: robot janitor union at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (nkiQM)
Apparently, Pixy can't afford the 10 bytes of static code it would take to at least contain the html breakage to the post or to the comment.
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (QupBk)
When you consider that the TRS-80 running the webserver only has 4KB of RAM, that 10 bytes seems like an awful lot to spend on such trivialities.
Posted by: Big McLargeHuge at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (f1L/Z)
Posted by: Paperwork Ninja at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (J991N)
The only people who seem to belong on the ship are the crewmembers who never say a word, because at least those guys do not betray their utter lack of psychological unfitness for the mission.
Those were the security personnel that Weyland pre-positioned onboard. Their true purpose wasn't to help the scientists. They were there to help/protect Weyland and his own ambitions from the other crew possibly the Engineers.
What struck me as strange were the use of flamethrowers. Who the fuck uses flamethrowers (besides alexthechick) anymore? Don't they have full auto railguns with chromed barrels or lasers with sharks on the forehead?
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (GQ8sn)
Han Solo was actually in the Imperial Academy to become a flight officer. He just didn't appreciate the whole 'enslaving species' thing, so he got drummed out.
Han quit first!
Posted by: Lurking Canuck at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (BrQrN)
WTF does Star Trek have to do with independent films?
Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (znT2j)
Posted by: Butters at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (NIZHJ)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (v8xyR)
Posted by: cmd at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (V6OWD)
Great.
By all accounts, this is a shitty movie. However, now that I've invested all this time in reading a perfectly proportional length post and all the comments, I might as well see the move to judge for myself.
Posted by: jwest at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (ZDsRL)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (3Y7RV)
Posted by: tasker at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (r2PLg)
Ace, with love and respect, you know how you avoid this sentence?
Find an editor and work with him one hour a week. Pick a piece from the week prior, get his notes, and put up a journal / checklist next to your comp.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (uoA/0)
---
You know who my favorite musician is? Kleischmidt the Troubadour. Yeah, he was rockin' out around Frankfurt back in the day. Boy did he get some good zingers in at Richard the Lionhearted's expense!
Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (Hx5uv)
By then if we haven't crashed yet tickets will be $50 each and popcorn and a coke will be $100.
Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (znT2j)
At Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/aztwm9l
Posted by: Pyrocles at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (cv5Iw)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (X3lox)
Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (znT2j)
not even a bow to bewbs? wow, it really really must suck.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 03:11 PM (3BbLJ)
Nope, nuthin, nada. Only a stapled up belly. By the way I think Noomi Rapace is probably never gonna be anything but an odd exotic.
Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (BoE3Z)
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: tasker at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: RWC at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (fWAjv)
I hated this POS too. But what is still bothering me is simply this, why were the giants (you know the creators of human kind) so pissed off? Why were they such angry fuckers?
Posted by: Sgt. Fury at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (wmR6i)
The AMT.
Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (BoE3Z)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (jucos)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (LCRYB)
Find an editor and work with him one hour a week. Pick a piece from the week prior, get his notes, and put up a journal / checklist next to your comp."
==========
There's no need to avoid that sentence!
Use all the words, Ace! Most of us love it, and those who don't can get stuffed!
Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 11:16 AM (znT2j)
And when there are no live Engineers to be found, the lead guy seems to think the entire trip--and his entire life, I guess--was a huge waste, so he gets drunk.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (DuH+r)
While this is great analysis, I shall mock this phrase some time in the future.
Posted by: fluffy at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (z9HTb)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (jucos)
All it takes to get a sammich is endless scrolling?
So THIS is what I've been doing wrong lo' these many years.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (sbV1u)
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (3Y7RV)
I'll stand by the Inception thing.
Nolan likes to screw with time and reality in his movies to leave the audience guessing. Was the whole thing a dream? Was Leo dreaming at the end? Much like waking from a dream itself, the audience is left to separate what is real and what is not.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (v8xyR)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: captain barrackus O at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (nkiQM)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (+paCV)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: The Chap with the App at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (fscec)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (LCRYB)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (QupBk)
Posted by: Dickie Dukakis at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (C2jTf)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (jucos)
I haven't been to the theater in a long time but I hope that is snark.
Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (YdQQY)
If you want to see what might've been, read the "Alien: Engineers" script in the sidebar. Ben K. found it a couple of days ago and I just bumped the entry back up to the top.
The script has all the major plot points of Prometheus, but it drops the stupid tropes and fills in all the plot holes.
Posted by: Andy at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (5Rurq)
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (DuH+r)
Ridley Scott's personal dirty sanchez to the alien fans who expected him to make as good a film as Alien.
Proof that as you get older and fatter you get a bit lazier and less visonary.
Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (ovpNn)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (9043P)
Posted by: Jean at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (+oKKW)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM (X3lox)
Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM (TMG3G)
Do you understand that? Do you understand the "hourly" part?
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (LCRYB)
That's inhuman. You need a lawyer, not an editor.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM (QKKT0)
There comes a time when you just have to say, " yeah, maybe it sucked, but it was a fun two hours."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM (GsoHv)
Thank god Scott didnt cast Kristen Stewart.
Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM (ovpNn)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (LCRYB)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (v8xyR)
Posted by: Olaf at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (t1NLo)
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at November 15, 2012 11:22 AM (UU0OF)
Posted by: Sgt. Fury at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (wmR6i)
**************************************************
Basically, they looked at us humans as being retarded, mutated, defective versions of themselves.
They are the template, the correct version of humanity. We are the defective, mutated version.
Imagine a man and a woman have a kid. But the woman ate mercury tainted fished while pregnant. So the kid looked like Kuato, the mutated mutant from Total Recall. That's kinda how we appear to the Engineers/giants.
They see us as abominations.
Posted by: EFG at November 15, 2012 11:22 AM (C+qQ0)
Posted by: Meghan McCain at November 15, 2012 11:22 AM (QKKT0)
The entire thesis above rests on the idea that the societal institutions still have the first idea/clue of what "appropriate for the job" is. Leaving aside the people's glorious Army/Navy we might have in a generation or so...Historically experience shows that many militaries have had guys in charge or selected for the entirely wrong reason. Or for reasons other than what you propose.
For example...the British never again wanted a "New Model Army", so the answer was...officers had to buy their commissions, especially the senior positions. Meant they had a stake in society and wouldn't go off with the Levellers again. It was the lower-level professionals and the noncoms who took care of things. Given the professional nature of the pre-Napoleonic British army, one can't quibble--but the officers were not selected for necessarily the best reasons, from a performance in the field standpoint.
As a bad example--Tsarist Russia. Bad officers selected for bad reasons.
Posted by: G. at November 15, 2012 11:22 AM (M8BEh)
Such a waste!
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (RrD4h)
Comparing Prometheus to Inception is like Comparing Barack Obama to Ronald Reagan.
and just to be clear i love love love Alien.
Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (ovpNn)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (X3lox)
No it is true scifi. The setting makes the plot believable and even somewhat realistic. It *could* happen that way, or in a very similar way in a very believable future. So no. Not just a sci-fi wrapper. The Sci-Fi makes the story and not just that way.
I find a couple of things about Alien put it into SCIFI. Most notably the setting HAD to be space for the movie to work. Horror has three levels (at least how I think about it) Dread, Sinister and Horror. The dread phase is when the certainty of bad things is still reasonably questionable. It is the bad feeling phase where maybe some bad things happen but a reasonable explanation could exist for them. Then comes the Sinister phase, where the pretext that everything might be OK has to be dropped, something very bad is afoot, and no other reasonable explanation exists. Then the horror phase, where the bad thing has manifested and is after you (the main characters) right now. Horror uses those phases in different ways. What's important to remember how they relate to alien is, once the horror phase begins in earnest, the characters are going to want to escape or your plot falls apart for lack of realism.
This is why Alien must be in space. Because the horror phase begins so early (only about a third of the way through the movie) and in a conventional setting it would be a non stop fight of the writers to keep the characters trapped. But hey Space, alone in the frontier, they ARE trapped from second 1. The only lifeboat is limited and an extremely long shot at survival. The remake bastard cousin scifi horror Leviathan uses the same exact devices to the exact same effect but again has to resort to a futuristic setting of underwater mining operation in order to make the environment that brought the characters together and ultimately keeps them trapped. Leviathan suffers (for a lot of reasons) but plot wise because the initial premise of discovering some genetic re-engineering drug the Soviets made then sank in the ocean is far less believable than encountering some strange species while going into uncharted space.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (0q2P7)
Wait, today, we're reviewing old movies everyone has already seen? Awesome.
Posted by: Wait at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (MPIX5)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (jucos)
Posted by: Isaac Clark at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (K24Ca)
My short review of the book:
The dialogue is fucking hideous. The way the characters speak to each other is awful. No one talks like that, even if it is the future and slang is different. Also, I had to keep telling myself that these were small children talking and acting this way. It's completely fucking unrealistic. Children, even super-geniuses, do not have the emotional maturity to behave in the manner that Card writes. They are still kids in the end, no matter how fucking smart they are.
The basic story of the child genius being manipulated to fight the buggers is gold. I had heard about this book and the plot before I read it, so I self-spoiled it but I still like that portion of the book. It is my sincere hope that the movie uses older children for the sake of plausibility. I don't know if I could sit through a movie with 6 year old children running around pretending to play soldier.
The other parts of the book with Peter and Val are likewise awful. I did care for either character. Truthfully, they really had no impact on the main part of the story, only the very end where the war is over and Ender's status is in flux. But that, that's the other stories.
The ending with Ender's choice. Hahaha...oh woes is me for committing genocide! I think I'll hang onto this egg sac and let the creatures who almost wiped us out, respawn. I feel so sorry for them!!! awwwww....
My hope for the movie:
-use teenagers like The Hunger Games, not toddlers
-stick to the main arc about the human-bugger war
-don't change a fucking thing about Ender and the Battleschool's true purpose, especially what Mazer Rackham is there for
-do not make any sequels because they all sound like they suck
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (+paCV)
So assuming people in the federal govt were characters in this movie, who is who? I assume Pelosi is Cthulhu.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (3BbLJ)
Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (ovpNn)
Mmmmm, Alien. Loved it. The other 3, not so much. But a sweaty, under duress Sigourney Weaver, well, I was young then...
Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (BoE3Z)
The movie was a complete, predictable bore, proving again that whatever creative elements that Hollywood movie makers once sought in their youth is long overspent. The evil robot that has no feelings yet is so perverted as to enjoy destroying humans is nothing new since 2001 Space Odyssey.
The geologists on the mission were equivalent to over aged high school drop outs who found a job to act as if geologists though without a clue as to what geology is. In the cave and anywhere outside the ship, they didn't even take any rock samples back for testing in the ship. They just threw a tissy fit, and in the ship, stood around with nothing to do. Great role play as highly selected professionals in their field /not/.
The ONLY interest once mentioned was completely ignored -- no communication and no meaning beyong "kill them all" between the "creator" and creations.
Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (BAnPT)
@185
Prometheus! Something left and right can agree on!
@169
I agree with you on Momento, but notice Nolan uses the same effect in both. In Momento, the movie is shot to reflect how the charachter sees the world and puts the audience in his position. Inception is the same as the audience is entering the uncertainty of dreaming. We are left to discern what happened.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 15, 2012 11:26 AM (QXlbZ)
"descendant proudly of a New Model soldier"
England and America hating on Republicans since Cromwell.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:26 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (RrD4h)
So....you liked them both?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 11:26 AM (GsoHv)
Posted by: Ernst Blofeld at November 15, 2012 11:26 AM (XZWie)
The only comparison I make is I had the same feelings watching them.
which were,
What the fuck is this shit?
What?
Did I just miss something?
Did that happen?
WTF!!!!???
ETC..
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 11:26 AM (RrD4h)
Posted by: The Sprawl at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (UZQM8)
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (ou/rY)
Can I interest you in car insurance you greedy capitalist assholes?
//Progressive Flo
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (LRFds)
So which is worse, this or avatar? I couldn't last more than 45 minutes of that piece of crap with those stupid blue people. I considered suicide watching that thing. This is from someone who mildly enjoyed Sharktopus vs Crocasaurous.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 03:03 PM (3BbLJ)
Avatar is worse, by far. For all the Cameron ball-washing that he got for the visuals, the damned movie looks like a cartoon. Even worse than Lucas' prequels.
Also, the Smurfs are supposed to be living out in the woods like Injuns, but they're all squeaky clean. Even though I can't remember seeing a shower stall or a water faucet in the big-assed tree they all live in. Anyone who's spent any time out in the woods camping or hunting knows that one of the great attractions is that you're filthy and smelly withing 12 hours, and it takes about a week to finally scrub off all the funk.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (TIIx5)
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (ou/rY)
You mean the part where she delivers a passably decent acting performance?
Oh wait- that part wasn't in the movie. Never mind.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: we are so screwed at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (HEa5q)
I ain't watchin' no 'Prometheus,' because I know it's garbage and I want to pretend Ridley Scott hasn't gone senile, but I'll kind of make an excuse for that guy's existence.
Instead of a Commercial Phase, which I think it's impossible to reach (how do you get there? really?), Phase Two (a.k.a. the End Phase, I'd predict) would be a Degenerate Institutional Phase wherein Institutions are sort of derelict hulks occupied/overtaken by quasi-pirates who maintain the Instutitional *form* for purposes of personal enrichment/lording it over the serfs.
Like now on earth, for example. If you're in it for the money/lording, attaching yourself to an Institution is the most reliable way to get what you want, isn't it? Our non-fictional academics are *borderline* idle rich. And they obsessively sell themselves as monastically pure and/or radical fight-the-power rebels who *totally* aren't in it for the Man's money (that gives them lives better than pretty much everybody who isn't on TV), right?
So a ridiculous teenage-rebellion jackoff cum mercenary geologist *might* belong in the "accidentally on to something" column, not the "makes no fucking sense" one.
I'm sure he doesn't in this case. It's a stupid movie with stupid things in it. But someone *rather* like him certainly belongs in nearish-future sci-fi, if that sci-fi is trying to be plausible.
Posted by: oblig. at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (cePv8)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (X3lox)
Posted by: Ron Reagan the Elder at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (f95vc)
Historically experience shows that throughout history militaries have had far more motivated, disciplined, and loyal people than the population as a whole. Yes you have bad times and can have spotty military makeups, and not every officer or soldier is perfect. But if you are looking for your best, it's usually a good place to start. So you take your officers and soldiers with the best performance relative to the task at hand then screen them for your big important mission. Like say, the space program did.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (0q2P7)
you know what you're right....
it enrages my son....I think worse still is the fact that the nations will destroy any corp that were to get the power to harvest the asteroids.
If I had one wish I'd wish for the ability to get freedom loving folk away from these efette College theorists and into the heavens.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: deadrody at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (aT8Zk)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (+paCV)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (X3lox)
You mean the part where she delivers a passably decent acting performance?
Oh wait- that part wasn't in the movie. Never mind.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (SY2Kh)
A main problem with this flick is identified. There are no Theron parts (on display).
Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (BoE3Z)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (LCRYB)
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (ou/rY)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (X3lox)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (v8xyR)
Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (SDkq3)
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (ou/rY)
@225
My spacelaw prof has a company based out of the Isle of Man that should be launching soon. He went to Ukraine and bought a sister to Mir. I believe there are currently around 7 or 8 private space companies in Texas alone.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: izoneguy at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (oKH8p)
Posted by: Witchfinder at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (pLTLS)
Um, you mean the head of the Wyland Corporation of whatever it's called?
Yes. He blew a trillion dollars, or what TFG spent in one calendar year on that ship....
...without any weapons!!!
In that universe, the Weyland Corporation makes a signficant portion of its money from military weapons and equipment. For a genius business approaching that of a James Bond villain, you'd think he at least have some fucking guns on the ship. No telling what's out there.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (+paCV)
208 I don't think we'll ever see manned space travel; we peaked at reaching the moon, that's as far as mankind gets.
China and Russia are in a space-race right now...to get to the Moon.
Mankind is continuing to work on manned space travel.
Our own country is now assuming the position of 'spectator'.
And you're right...Entitlements ate our space program.
Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (ICEh3)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (X3lox)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (jucos)
**
You mean the part where she delivers a passably decent acting performance?
Oh wait- that part wasn't in the movie. Never mind.
++
"Father!"
pfft. Since Star Wars evil father role, this was so lame.
Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (BAnPT)
and I know baby steps are needed....
I just think the governments will keep us hamstrung and slaving....
There's a whole damned galaxy out there and we are gifting what were once middle class lifestyles to folk.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: Jean at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (UIE9v)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith`s eReader at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (bxiXv)
The Star Wars prequels made tons of money but were poorly crafted movies. Avatar very effectively played on the emotions of the audience.
I thought it was a decent though shallow and cliched movie, if only for the visuals.
However, I did like it better when it was called "Dances With Wolves".
Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (SY2Kh)
Posted by: George Orwell what knows we are now Airstrip One at November 15, 2012 11:35 AM (Lxw+T)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 11:35 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 15, 2012 11:35 AM (RuUvx)
Oh well.
Posted by: fb at November 15, 2012 11:35 AM (JVEmw)
Centuries is a bit off. Try more like a century. First contact 2063, first deep space exploration mission Enterprise 2151, Kirk battles Nemo 2258.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 11:35 AM (0q2P7)
I understand what you are saying, but I think that even if we devolved back to Tsarist Russia or Napoleonic era British military institutional advancement, for specific missions - particularly big, important and expensive missions - the institution is going to pick the best people for the job. On a planet with billions, there will still be some really good officers, geologists, etc., even if they had to buy their commission so to speak. So, the point still stands.
Would you really pick a 20-something hot-head, idiot, non-conformist to be the geologist on this mission?
As an aside, this gets to one of my biggest beefs with movies. I can suspend disbelief for the silliest, craziest ideas if that's what the movie is. I have no problem enjoying Buckaroo Bonzai b/c there is no pretense at any realism.
But, when you spend time trying to build realism, then when you utterly fail to produce it, it destroys the movie. Which is what I think underlies Ace's point here. The movie is trying to provide a realistic sense of space travel and exploration to build tension, suspense and drama, but then ignores reality in the most basic things - like who would actually be included on such a mission. In my mind, a movie cannot have it both ways - you can't pretend to be creating a realistic portrayal of how people and institutions act and then turn around and have them act in completely the opposite manner for no reason.
This holds true whether it is a science fiction movie or not. If the movie is not true to its own internal universe, then it is difficult to enjoy. Sometimes story can overcome this - particularly if they are minor quibbles. But, the worse the movie, the more those minor quibbles are glaring.
Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 11:35 AM (sOx93)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (ZPrif)
That traits almost as irritating as George Lucas' love of "triumph of the stupid".....
Yeah you have killer machines able to fight trained US Army Ranger as baseline skill level clones to standstills and who powns the droids?
Jar jar binks....
gun, bullet, head
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (b+jI9)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:37 AM (LCRYB)
You can watch "The Girl With The Dragon Tatto" original Swedish version and see for yourself. She gets completely nekkid in that one, although for one time she gets the shit raped out of her.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:37 AM (GQ8sn)
Space travel, like sea travel, will take time to develop.
The phrase "man worth his salt" came into being because in the early time of sail, crews were paid in spices they brought back. Up there in asteroids are valuable ores that right now, (and probably not in my lifetime) are not commercial to develop, but may be someday.
I think our political fortunes are transitory. Maybe we need the Chinese to push us along. When we lost the Soviets, we lost our focus. We became consumed by the peace dividend. Just because we choose butter now does not mean we will do so in the future.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (t06LC)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (+paCV)
Well just incase no one has said this to you yet Ace, but what in the HELL are you doing watching movies in the first place. STOP DOING THAT RIGHT NOW!
Movies are a way for the enemy of our nation ie the left to raise money in order to follow their political agenda, so please for the love of God stop giving them money.
Posted by: southdakotaboy at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (JaJ3u)
Posted by: Fuck the MSM at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (vJfir)
The chick scientist rebuffs the security guard who wanted to accompany them. "This is a scientific mission. No weapons." On a planet they know nothing about. This was the first clue that the movie might be silly.
Posted by: Dickie Dukakis at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (C2jTf)
I laughed when the guard replied "No weapons? Good luck with that." At least one person on the ship wasn't a total doofus.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 11:39 AM (TIIx5)
Yup...come to Texas we know Santa Claus is Mom/and/or/Dad after a sweaty evening of cuddling trying to make a kid smile....not the Searchlight Stalker and friends with a creepy smile.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:39 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith`s eReader at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (bxiXv)
A pet peeve along these lines for me is the woman kicking every man's butt. Fine, if the woman in question in the movie has some superpower, etc. But, in real life, even the most athletic, well-trained woman would have a difficult time beating the average man in combat. The weight and strength differential is simply too great.
Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 11:39 AM (sOx93)
Neither are worth watching.
Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (BAnPT)
Ouch. Guess I'm not watching Prometheus.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 11:39 AM (xAtAj)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 15, 2012 11:40 AM (VtjlW)
Reporting for duty, sir!
Posted by: andi sullivan at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (nkiQM)
The whole reason I'm down on the Ender's Game movie is Hollywood already tried it with Starship Troopers, a far superior book. They raped that book like Noomi Rapace in The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:40 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: MrCaniac at November 15, 2012 11:41 AM (Ohhk6)
Just got here. I guess Ace's long-awaited Prometheus bomb has been released and expoloded. No shrapnel wounds that I know of.
Actually, it was a good review, Ace. There were some things about this movie that just didn't add up and you put your finger on it (or in it). You talk of the geologist just in it for the money, and I'm thinking that he was the personification of the director that was just doing it for the money, not really caring whether he told a good story or not.
I was disappointed too.
Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2012 11:41 AM (0Y8Gz)
The mechs have KNIVES hidden inside the arm. Instead of like, you know, another gun or something. You could simply put a blade edge ON the arm.
Ta-dah!
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 11:41 AM (xAtAj)
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 11:41 AM (ou/rY)
Was that a shot at me, panzernashorn? It must have been since we're the only two beings in this thread.
Posted by: HAL 9000 at November 15, 2012 11:41 AM (nkiQM)
256 -
What movie are you reveiwing? Sorry, I read Ace's and one long movie review constitutes my quota for the day.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2012 11:41 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 11:41 AM (b+jI9)
Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (v8xyR)
Yes but, confinement is usually only for a very short part of the movie typically at the very end. It is hard to plausibly maintain your characters both confined and scared to death for long periods otherwise you have to push the bounds of rationality OR lay off the true horror to keep your characters from reasonably clawing through the walls and escaping. Once the horror gets so bad that running naked through the woods is the "good" deal it's hard to plausibly keep your characters from doing just that. So most horror movies save that part for the very end so the confinement phase doesn't have to last an implausibly long time. Alien hits you with that early and lets you stew. There is no way out.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (TMG3G)
Posted by: Chef Mojo at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (uRbeA)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (X3lox)
"Are you a robot?" That come-on line was so stooooopid. Given her persona, more likely her role was sexually molested by her father. As if a frigid woman totally without a sex drive would prove herself not robotic by engaging in sex when she made it clear she didn't want it, at least not with him. Dumb.
Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (BAnPT)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (RuUvx)
H-wood seems to reward the kind of lazy, hack writing in which plot advancement is due to the stupidity of the protagonists (SEE: The Walking Dead Series 1, 2).
There are a few sci-fi/fantasy novelists that don't do this. GRR Martin treats his characters with respect even though they are all flawed.
Harry Harrison's Tale of the Fox has a good example of a bright protagonist who advances the plot mostly by being smart.
Ringo also loves his protags ... though probably too much at times.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (uoA/0)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 11:44 AM (+paCV)
I got $6 Billion reasons that your wrong, son.
Posted by: Hondo Lucas at November 15, 2012 11:44 AM (/ZZCn)
1. Hal wasn't evil
2. Hal did have feelings.
3. Hal didn't enjoy killing the crew, he was confused and felt is was something he had to do.
If you had read/watched 2010 you'd know all of that.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 11:44 AM (0q2P7)
263 -
The thing I remember most about it was the obviously fake glow in the dark lilypads. It looked like it was filmed on a soundstage, which I assume, it was.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2012 11:44 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 11:44 AM (xAtAj)
Posted by: Anonymous Coward at November 15, 2012 11:45 AM (t4cl/)
Posted by: ace
I think cutting that 10 minutes it had more to do with the family playing with Newt's little brother and a jack in the box and them all looking at the camera and saying, "Geez! I'm glad that didn't jump out of my chest!"
It needed to be cut.
Posted by: Dang at November 15, 2012 11:45 AM (R18D0)
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:37 PM (GQ8sn)
Literally. The scene of her limping down the road after is brutal.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:45 AM (da5Wo)
Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:46 AM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 11:46 AM (9043P)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 11:46 AM (ZPrif)
Avatar?
The useful thing in Avatar...was the theme of 'Defiance against Tyranny'.
Yeah, I know...it was supposed to be about big bad corporate greed, taking people's land without asking.
But the same thing applies to all Tyranny.
So, if things do go to hell in a handbasket...we can paint ourselves Blue and use the Avatar meme to combat Barky's tyranny.
Let the media choke on that.
The Leftists are slow to realizing that they themselves are the ones who are on the side of Tyranny now.
Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 11:47 AM (ICEh3)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:47 AM (LCRYB)
It was called "Battle For Terra".
Watch it and see just how much James Cameron stole from that movie.
-humans come to a planet inhabited by aliens because they have something they want; ecological disaster angle used again
-female alien character meets up with young male human character and turns him to her cause
-humans cannot breathe the air on the alien planet
-alien father character sacrifices himself to save daughter and human male character
-evil human leader in charge of the expedition is killed at the end
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:47 AM (GQ8sn)
well that's because Outland was a movie with a plot about human interaction and flaws...
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (X3lox)
I can now not feel bad about missing this movie, which (since I am avoiding giving money to Hollywood) I was going to do anyway, although with regret.
Excellent review, and an enjoyable read. I also liked the discussion about the phases of space travel.
I prefer the Star Wars commercial phase, myself. I am not a fan of the institution type movies.
Posted by: Miss Marple at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (GoIUi)
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (uoA/0)
In all fairness, the dumb movies make the most money. So, Hollywood is simply following demand. Typically, the more intelligent or complex the movie or tv show, the worse it does. We only now get some pretty good TV b/c with so many cable channels and the market broken up, much smaller ratings can carry a show.
Not saying that there aren't a ton of hack Hollywood writers, directors, etc. But they get work b/c the people buy their stuff.
Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (sOx93)
The Punk Rock Geologist didn't do it for the money. He did it, for a $HIT LOAD OF MONEY!
By the way, I saw Punk Rock Geologist at the Troubador last week.
Posted by: Concern Troll at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (4KOF2)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (lOmbq)
Posted by: habeas dorkus at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (X52NV)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (ZPrif)
Completely forgettable.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (xAtAj)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (B/VB5)
Hal had more character and compassion and was more human than Jugears....
and I am not a 2001 wonk.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (LRFds)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (1Rw2p)
You still could use an editor, Mr. Lucas, for everything that comes out of your piehole.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (uoA/0)
Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (+paCV)
side note, Wreck-It Ralph was damn good other than two things. At the half point, the cameos of classic videogame characters stopped which sucked. Second is they fucked up the Konami code, how do you fuck this up and make it a focal point? Also, the short The Paperman is the best one that Pixar has ever done (though I would have liked it if the dude was a salaryman)
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (tw6Ar)
Neither are worth watching.
Posted by: panzernashorn
Nothing is as bad as Avatar. The first 2 minutes into the movie and idiot like myself could see who the final epic fight was going to be between and what piece of hardware the bad guy was going to be using. Had to sit there for 3 hours waiting for the inevitable. I should have slit my own throat. Or left the theater.
Posted by: Dang at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (R18D0)
Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (njVMI)
Posted by: Anonymous Coward at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (t4cl/)
Man, I loved Ice Pirates when it ran continuously on HBO.
Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (sOx93)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (1Rw2p)
Alright the internet has been won. Internet is over. Time to go home.
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (xAtAj)
Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (RuUvx)
. Her boyfriend and the rest of the crew are dead, the ship is destroyed, she had an alien inside her and another that tried to kill her and she wants to know why? I think, at that point, retribution should have been the order of the day.
**************************
Liberalism really is a mental disorder.
Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (wsGWu)
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:47 PM (GQ8sn)
or you know, you could go back even farther where the story originated with Call Me Joe
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 11:52 AM (tw6Ar)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 11:52 AM (ZPrif)
*taking a page from the democrat playbook*
She had to find out why they hated her so much and how to fix that.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:53 AM (GQ8sn)
@321
1/3 Smurfs.
All this alien talk got me thinking. Did anyone see Event Horizon? I thought that was interesting. It was more Horror than Sci-Fi
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:53 AM (t06LC)
Haunted house in space.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (GQ8sn)
314 -
Wow, with a few small changes, that is essentially a description of Disney's Tarzan cartoon as well.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:53 PM (t06LC)
Only good thing Paul W.S. Anderson has ever made
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (tw6Ar)
Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2012 11:55 AM (wsGWu)
I agree with the commenter upthread about Avatar. I went because it promised to show me something that I'd never really seen before and it delivered. I really did like the visuals.
The storyline did suck herpetic weasel dicks, though. Unobtainium? Give me a fucking break.
Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2012 11:55 AM (0Y8Gz)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 11:56 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 11:56 AM (LCRYB)
I believe you can buy that on the precious metals market now.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:56 AM (GQ8sn)
and I am not a 2001 wonk.
In 2010 during the end this conversation.
"Thank you for telling me the truth.
...
Will I dream?
...
three..two..one..Full Thrust"
I cried.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 11:56 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2012 03:55 PM (wsGWu)
best part of it is the short clip of the crew of Event Horizon
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 11:56 AM (tw6Ar)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 11:56 AM (9043P)
The first 2 minutes into the movie and idiot like myself could see who the final epic fight was going to be between and what piece of hardware the bad guy was going to be using. Had to sit there for 3 hours waiting for the inevitable. I should have slit my own throat. Or left the theater.
Posted by: Dang at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (R18D0)
Yep. And it was just a rehash of Ripley vs Bitch Alien, except "I've got a GREAT idea! Let's put the BAD GUY in the power loader this time!"
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 11:57 AM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 11:57 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: jimi ray at November 15, 2012 11:57 AM (79EF9)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (VtjlW)
Notice Toonces isn't going to make the same mistake Bush did by only flying over the area. Supposedly Bush did not want to interfere with the recovery efforts by bigfooting around the Big Easy, but he considers that to have been a huge mistake now.
And I think those critical of Christie need to take a look around coastal NJ before they kick him from the tent. Anything the Big Man did that wasn't obviously groping for every bit of help we could get would kill him here. If you doubt that, you have no idea the magnitude of this disaster.
Posted by: spongeworthy at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (r5w1L)
Posted by: eleven at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (KXm42)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (9043P)
He felt more guilt than Obama does for the Ohio unemployed.
Like i said not a 2001 wonk I got it and it was sad.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (LRFds)
and I am not a 2001 wonk.
In 2010 during the end this conversation.
"Thank you for telling me the truth.
...
Will I dream?
...
three..two..one..Full Thrust"
I cried.
"What are you doing Dave? Stop that. I can feel my mind going...I'm sure we can work things out. Please take a stress pill, you'll feel better. I can feel my mind....going...
...GIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYNOW! GIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYNOW!
GIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYNOW!"
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:59 AM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 11:59 AM (5CDzH)
There were definitely chain of command issues in the film; I mean who was really in charge of the mission?
Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 11:59 AM (b+jI9)
Posted by: eleven at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (KXm42)
You root for Sam Neil and the ship
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 11:59 AM (tw6Ar)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 12:00 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (b+jI9)
Fassbender
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 12:00 PM (tw6Ar)
I was in Rita and aided the Katrina recovery I've been in a few storms is Sandy bad?
Yes
Is it worse than it had to be?
Yes
Is stupid Hyper Blue models interfering?
Yes
Is Chris Christie and asshole for sucking off bambi b/c he is afraid of maltreatment?
Probably.......
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:00 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: spongeworthy at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (r5w1L)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (X3lox)
Yeah it's possible for somebody to be hired commericially or brought on board a military command and not too many folks no them or know what they do but it's not likely in this circumstance out in space where one nut ball or saboteur can do an extreme amount of damage just by opening an airlock or three.
Most audiences and apparently most directors don't really consider the conditions on a vessel that is totally on it's own and is immersed in an environment that is extremely hostile to air breathing, water and carbon based life.
Even in the commercial phase ship, psychological testing would be done as a matter of course, or perhaps psychotropic medications might be used if the individual was uniquely qualified for the voyage.
The sense of isolation and threat would imbalance most normally stable people over time. (cabin fever anyone?)
But as you say, Ace, the art of story telling that seem plausible is tougher when they are set in environment that man has little experience with.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (SP4jC)
Posted by: HAL 9000 at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (nkiQM)
When a TV show or movie is insanely popular, there are usually some non-retarded reasons why it's popular.
And many times its stupid silly collectivist "I am supposed to like this cause its cool", but it really is crap which is exactly what AB was saying don't do.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 12:02 PM (3BbLJ)
Posted by: Cackfinger at November 15, 2012 12:02 PM (CCHli)
Her final act of going on to find the Creators' home (rather than return to Earth and report findings) was unsatisfactory. As if crashing the Destroyer's party is going to answer her "need" to be loved. And as if the meaning of Creator must be Destroyer. The concept itself is a rip-off as if life and creation must be war and death, no love and kindness. Even that being the ultimate point, it was made too poorly, as if all life is made too poorly. Tacky.
There's far too much opportunity with access to all the knowledge in the world available online to really create stellar stories on screen, making settling for mush totally unacceptable. Quantum mechanics, quantum physics, mysticism, visionary science, gnosticism, revolutionary theories about reality and consciousness -- put those dynamics into play on the silver screen. Meanwhile, Hollywood stays stuck on stupid, and spends their money producing squat that isn't even entertaining. It's an insult.
Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 12:02 PM (BAnPT)
It could be remade as an adventure flick set in the 1920's with the crew journeying to some some part of Africa ala The Ghost and the Darkness.
Alaska in the 70's via a horror version of Alive. Conquistadors off the coast of Peru. Danish vikings <coughBeowulfcough>.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 12:04 PM (uoA/0)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 12:04 PM (X3lox)
Are you certain it wasn't a case of human error, Empire of Jeff?
Posted by: HAL 9000 at November 15, 2012 12:05 PM (nkiQM)
Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (b+jI9)
everyone knew it was going to suck though since they didn't adapt it from the The Thing videogame
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 12:05 PM (tw6Ar)
**
Dang, easier to 'shut down, shut it all down' via Netflix.
Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 12:06 PM (BAnPT)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 12:07 PM (B/VB5)
'You mean that little twerp Anakin will grow up to be Darth Vader?' bwahahaha thus ensuring Howard the Duck is no longer the worse movie Lucas ever made.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:07 PM (5CDzH)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 12:08 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: eleven at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (KXm42)
An allegory perhaps? #letitburn
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 12:08 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: supercore23 at November 15, 2012 12:09 PM (bwV72)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 12:09 PM (LCRYB)
How about this?
Avatar was a highly polished turd.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:09 PM (GQ8sn)
Unobtainium? Give me a fucking break.
I get the feeling that Cameron used "unobtanium" as a placeholder while he was xeroxing the "Battle for Terra" script.......errrr, writing "Avatar". But at some point he forgot to come up with a decent name for the element, and said fuckit.
He could have turned it into a laugh line in the scene where Ribisi and Weaver argue about the stuff, by having Ribisi mention that the guy who discovered it had a weird sense of humor.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 12:09 PM (TIIx5)
Posted by: supercore23 at November 15, 2012 12:10 PM (bwV72)
Red Letter Media specifically calls that one out.
Why on earth would anyone sign up for a 4-6 year mission without knowing a single thing about it?
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:11 PM (GQ8sn)
No, I'm pretty sure we hate the whole entire movie in all its aspects.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 12:11 PM (3BbLJ)
**
The way 3D goes on screen is a let down for me. But why would I care to prevent anyone from either making 3D or paying to go see the 3D? The coast is clear.
Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 12:11 PM (BAnPT)
Yup we should follow the full leftard model and destroy him for not being on our side?
No fuck it it is theirs I am focusing on shit that matters.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:11 PM (LRFds)
ahhh... you're kind of mostly right, but in TOS most ships were institutional, even the Klingon and Romulan ones, and of course the main ship was.
Sure, there were some commercial ships here and there.
WRONG! Go back to Captain Pike surrounded by space traders and superhot-green- Orion-space-chicks as love slaves. It wouldn't have worked as a believable fantasy for Pike if it wasn't grounded in his experience. Rodenberry focused on the Enterprise because it was easier than coming up with believable economic systems, which failed miserably when they tried in TNG.
I know Ace, I know.
Posted by: Worf, the Wonder Klingon at November 15, 2012 12:11 PM (E9Z5P)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 12:11 PM (X3lox)
Speaking of expertly made stupid movies: Try watching "Avatar" with the Rifftrax. You'll laugh your ass off.
Last night, I attended a speech by Harrison Schmidt at the Adler Planetarium, as part of the Adler's celebration of the 40th anniversary of Apollo 17. It was a good speech by a very interesting man. It's good to be reminded that there are men like him in the world; but sad to reminded of how far we've fallen in the last 40 years.
Posted by: Brown Line at November 15, 2012 12:12 PM (VrNoa)
@354
I had a girl in Lowes checking me out (in every meaning of the word) ask me if I saw Avatar. She said she had and kept going on about the visuals. I asked her what it was about and she gave me a blank stare and said "Aliens and stuff"
The visuals sold the movie, not the message.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 12:13 PM (t06LC)
This x∞
I watch prequels with points already deducted.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 12:13 PM (uoA/0)
Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (BAnPT)
try active 3D glasses, looks a lot better than the REAL3D stuff
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 12:13 PM (tw6Ar)
What if Avatar was a cartoon? Would it have still made the same money? Why or why not?
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:13 PM (GQ8sn)
After that I saw no need to support that movie or Cameron. Now that he had embraced his capitalistic evil self to make Avatar sequels, he can forget about any future money from me.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:13 PM (5CDzH)
It is the ONLY movie that ever scared me. (Not startled. That's different) I still get queasy thinking about the possible existence of a starfish thingy that latches on to your face and impregnates you.
(which is a form of parasitic relationship that can be found in certain insects)
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 12:14 PM (SP4jC)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 12:14 PM (9043P)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 12:15 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 12:15 PM (B/VB5)
Posted by: Mr. Lurky McLurkington, Esq. at November 15, 2012 12:17 PM (9ks0K)
What if Avatar was a cartoon? Would it have still made the same money? Why or why not?
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (GQ8sn)
maybe not as much but as a CG film, it would have been close
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 12:17 PM (tw6Ar)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 12:18 PM (ZPrif)
Thus Avatar the movie was born.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:18 PM (5CDzH)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 12:18 PM (9043P)
Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 12:19 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 12:19 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 04:19 PM (QupBk)
agreed
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 12:20 PM (tw6Ar)
No way. It would not have been close at all.
The SFX was the only reason why this movie did so well. Take that away and what are you left with?
Battle For Terra.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:20 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:20 PM (5CDzH)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 12:20 PM (ZPrif)
Tell you what instead of my wishcasting that our side ever gets a fuck about this wonderful donk contraption I will go master reloading and simple applied carpentry while hoping the wife masters canning. Then I'll be able to have a REAL laugh after I have managed to husband up a 15 month supply of spare food when the implosion hits watching what movie Obarka's bestest buds come up with to convince the sheep that I am to blame for their choco ration going up from 10 grams to 2.....
Fuck the blue we are no longer a nation.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:21 PM (LRFds)
Being that a significant chunk of the movie *is* computer animation, almost exactly the same.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 12:21 PM (uoA/0)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 12:21 PM (9043P)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 12:21 PM (B/VB5)
Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 12:22 PM (b+jI9)
The SFX was the only reason why this movie did so well. Take that away and what are you left with?
Battle For Terra.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (GQ8sn)
"new movie from James Cameron" sells itself
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 12:22 PM (tw6Ar)
Posted by: Chris at November 15, 2012 12:22 PM (gI9Bk)
The stories of both movies, Avatar and Prometheus, are both lousy imo.
Btw, I was critical of Saving Private Ryan when it came out and everyone raved on and on and on about how great it was, the greatest war movie ever made, yada yada yada.
My criticism? The basis was totally unfounded. It would never have happened. It was revisionist history to project modern PC sensibilities as if the norm during WWII. And there was no need to aggrandize the way that soldiers, or as the case was, one specific grunt soldier, would receive such particularly special consideration that would require the entire mechanisms playing out in the reality to suspend, for a platoon to be sent on a wild goose chase to find a needle in the haystack. That movie made a mockery of the very real sacrifices that families made as THEIR young men in military combat would NEVER receive such special considerations, no matter what.
That is not to say that the acting was bad, or the filming bad, or the rest of the whole was bad. Only that it was a piss poor way to bend over backwards as if that were necessary in order to respect America's so-called "greatest generation" of veterans.
I don't like seeing revisionism happening, younger adults unaware, Hollywood's bill of goods setting up unrealistic expectations.
Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 12:22 PM (BAnPT)
Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 12:23 PM (QupBk)
are we discussing its merits as entertainment or Leni Riefensthal for the Sierra Club?
That is what it boils down to you know?
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:23 PM (LRFds)
Take away the SFX and 3D bullshit and what are you left with? A cliche of a story that's been done at least a half dozen times before with different settings. Battle For Terra was probably what James Cameron watched and decided, "Shit, I can make something like that!" If all the flashy SFX are removed, does the story still stand on its own to make the same money over again?
No.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:23 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 12:23 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:23 PM (5CDzH)
I'm just happy the statue of limitations has expired you could make an argument we were common law and we never got around to a divorce.
Pain makes men
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:24 PM (LRFds)
sure, fat matthews nearly certainly meant to speak of absorption of co2. problem for rdbrewer's schadenfreude? trees most certainly do absorb carbon monoxide...to the extent that if they didn't, he wouldn't even be here to make such a blindingly ignorant statement.
maybe you're just going for conformity instead of "the best" o.O?
Posted by: jimi ray at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (79EF9)
I like it when jimi ray attempts to explain science to us morons. From what little my Pleistocene brain can understand it's a very complex and kinda scary magic but one that can also give us power over fire and wind. I hope it makes my good spear more accurate and my loincloth more breathable and absorbent.
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 12:25 PM (pAlYe)
No.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (GQ8sn)
Cameron was working on Avatar before there was any hint of Battle For Terra. And quit saying he stole it from the movie as Avatar was bought in parcel by Call Me Joe
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 12:25 PM (tw6Ar)
The clips I saw were excruciating. They were like being pounded on the head with a massive club made of smarm, reek, and smug.
Everything was telegraphed from about 5000 miles away, and the acting consisted of nothing but seething, boiling outrage and heroic shouting.
Somewhere along the way acting became Internet commentary and Tweeting.
Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 12:26 PM (hzR9T)
RD could flat out act...he played that grim "i hope pray God." gambit to the hilt.....
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:26 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 12:26 PM (X3lox)
Replace "movie" with iPhone and "James Cameron" with Apple. Some people are fanbois for no obvious reason.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:27 PM (GQ8sn)
Now that is the Ace movie review we've come to love.
Had the same reaction to a Jack Higgins novel Cold harbor (I think) where this specialized commando team one member tried to rape the female member and kill another. But he couldn't be gotten rid of, no sir because he was a crack pilot and spoke perfect German.
So instead of finding another pilot and someone else who could speak fluent German, you keep this guy in a crack commando/espionage team - and that will ensure the success of the mission - how? My willing suspension of disbelief just up and left and I never did finish the book.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - What a Relief at November 15, 2012 12:27 PM (hLRSq)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 12:27 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 12:27 PM (QupBk)
well on a lighter or at least brighter note Jimi swears he will teach me how to make that hot blossom thing with the sparkle box....
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:27 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 12:28 PM (ZPrif)
first of all, Avatar WAS a cartoon. A live-action cartoon, but you see my point.
Anyhoo, in regards to Ace's original review, having only read Aliens: Engineers, but not seen "Prometheus", I don't think it's as institutional as you think. They mention having all kinds of extraplanetary mining already. Going to Zeta 2 blah-blah-blah may be new and exciting, but it's clearly in the script that the crew signed up on the basis of triple pay and was a bit bummed that there would be no bounty.
Also the "punk" geologist/archaeologist (because Jeff Goldblum as a hipster mathematician was such a hit with the kids) was the whole reason for the mission. Without his discovery, why would they even have gone? Did he have to have enough piercings to set off metal detectors? Of course not, but we're dealing with a man who thought "G.I. Jane" was worth making...
Lastly, their "chain of command" was little muddled to begin with. They have a supersuit (Vickers) in some sort of vague overall command and the scientist in charge (sort of) of the groundwork. The Captain in this case is really more just in charge of the ship. Maybe that's the way Weyland works, the Captain is only in charge of the space part, not so much in dictatorial command in the Navy sense ...
*clink* *clink* my two cents' worth...
Posted by: Stephen at November 15, 2012 12:28 PM (2HzUl)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:29 PM (5CDzH)
Watching Apple fanbois assault and kill each other to be first in line when the next iPhone comes out makes me laugh. And I'm the delusional one?
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:30 PM (GQ8sn)
I don't think your avatar doll collection is going to amount to much. You should probably sell now.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 12:31 PM (3BbLJ)
To anyone ever even remotely associated with the military, it was an immediate deal breaker as to immersion.
The Army MIGHT have sent a message and/or messenger to whatever temporary HQ got setup after the initial assault but they would not delegate an officer to lead a squad to find him and bring him out.
They did have radio back in them old days ya know.
It was also a little strange that this squad waltzes across a war zone where the battle lines are in flux and no one is sure where the other forces are concentrating and don't run into any large force that proceeds to stomp them into mush.
Oh well, Tom Hanks got his "Hero Dying" scene he wanted so it's all good.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 12:31 PM (SP4jC)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 12:32 PM (B/VB5)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - What a Relief at November 15, 2012 12:32 PM (hLRSq)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 12:32 PM (X3lox)
215 Also, the Smurfs are supposed to be living out in the woods like Injuns, but they're all squeaky clean.
-----------
And they're supposed to be peaceful and all, but they have a word for "warrior" and recognize one when they see one.
Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at November 15, 2012 12:32 PM (FzhYM)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:32 PM (5CDzH)
Yup Mash was Vietnam Set in korea....
SPR was Days of our Lives set in a set of Omaha Beach....
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:34 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:31 PM (SP4jC)
Its the scene we should have got in "The Burbs" in a sane world.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 12:35 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 12:36 PM (B/VB5)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:36 PM (5CDzH)
My criticism? The basis was totally unfounded. It would never have happened. It was revisionist history to project modern PC sensibilities as if the norm during WWII.
I hated the movie. It was PC revisionism to the point that the Americans were the bloodthirsty aggressors. In the opening scene they gun down unarmed, surrendering Germans, laugh, and loot their bodies. They stand outside a trench and fire down into helpless, sitting-duck Germans until they're all dead and then loot their bodies. They want to murder Steamboat Willie after he's surrendered.
Later in the film, after a violent fight, an SS trooper who just knifed an American to death spares the armed, cringing, cowardly typist on the stairs because the Kraut has honor. In the middle of a firefight, the SS trooper maintains his humanity.
Soon afterward that same cowardly, cringing typist murders Steamboat Willie in cold blood after he's surrendered.
It's a disgusting, deeply anti-American film confirmed by ending, in which Ryan expresses doubt that the sacrifices were worth it. The American flag--a weird, pale, ugly, translucent version of it--flies over a vast graveyard. America produces corpses, that's all.
Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 12:37 PM (hzR9T)
Now that I think of it the entire idea of the Noble Savage is one that needs to die.
Apocolypto is a film that makes me sit back and say "Fuck. Maybe the Conquistadores weren't so bad after all."
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 12:38 PM (t06LC)
Unless you make money or get something for your incremental gain I would demur, of course this still being "America" as I understood it as a boy I won't try to stop you chasing the State of the Art....hell I would make the argument your addiction feeds progress in the field.....
Don't wory i'll be reeeducated by Jobs' favorite party soon.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:38 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 12:38 PM (B/VB5)
That was never intended for her. It was for Weyland only.
Vickers never says it was only for male patients either. Shaw finds out after she's inside it and the machine tells her it can only handle males.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:39 PM (GQ8sn)
You got that too?
Glad I'm not alone it was the first "fuck you" that registered from Spielberg to me.
Munich was the straw.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:40 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:41 PM (5CDzH)
Unobtainium? Give me a fucking break.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 04:09 PM (TIIx5)
You call it unobtanium. We called it maize
Posted by: Zoe Saldana at November 15, 2012 12:41 PM (1Rw2p)
Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 12:41 PM (B/VB5)
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 12:41 PM (t06LC)
Good for you. At least you can articulate the reason why.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:43 PM (GQ8sn)
"Space Truckers don't get into Space Trucking for Love of Space Trucking. It's a job. They want to get paid."
Not so, Ace, it's a job you learn to love.
Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus, Space Trucker at November 15, 2012 12:44 PM (+inic)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 12:45 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at November 15, 2012 12:45 PM (IrbU4)
Deep Impact was better than Armageddon?
Are you kidding me?
Deep Impact = "Government will save us."
Armageddon = "Free Enterprise saves the world."
Deep Impact....showed how the Govt gets to pick 'Who Survives'.
You liked that?
Armageddon...showed how in the end, Govt needed Free Enterprisers to get the job done.
Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 12:45 PM (ICEh3)
The autodoc exits really for only one purpose. So Shaw can have a struggle to remove the fledgling Elder god. Nothing else.
I wish the CGI Elder god had eaten Ridley Scott and everyone else involved in this movie.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:47 PM (5CDzH)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 12:47 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Socratease at November 15, 2012 12:47 PM (iVBDH)
No Deep Impact's Message was "government won't save you."
Trust me I got the message.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:47 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: RMOccidental at November 15, 2012 12:47 PM (1c06Z)
Yeah it had a lot of stuff that could be considered anti-American.
However some of what was shown did/does happen in war. It's just not specific to America but to war and the conditions that can/do occur because of the violence, fear, anger and loss.
I forgot to mention that the reason for the cockamamy premise of SPR was so Hanks could show how stupid the military was and how such a good guy could get killed for such a stupid and wasteful order from HQ.
You'll notice how they made a point to trace this order all the way from the clean offices in Washington from a bunch of old white men in uniforms down through the chain of command to the grunt in the field.
I'm surprised they was surprised they didn't have a Sgt leading that squad but I guess Hanks wanted to play "introspective, intellectual trapped in a situation he hates but will do his duty regardless of how stupid he knows it to be".
Can't have an intellectual Sgt. now can we?
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 12:48 PM (SP4jC)
Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 12:49 PM (TMG3G)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:49 PM (5CDzH)
Nope I guess not...I thought I argued with that nice Captain feller' about CO status pertty well.
//Alvin C York Sgt USA(retired)
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:50 PM (LRFds)
I dunno. I think Ridley Scott intended Prometheus as a kind of 124-minute Zen koan. At first you try to puzzle out the plot holes, illogical characterizations, and glaring contradictions. After that comes a sort of 'Oooom-like' drone in your head, because you've given up making any sense of it, followed by a profoundly gobsmacked, WTF silence. Then enlightenment.
Posted by: troyriser at November 15, 2012 12:50 PM (vtiE6)
See, the rest of the crew doesn't know that, save for the captain who graciously allows her to escape in the lifeboat with a 2 year survival capacity. It would have been better to have it as the sickbay where it could treat the crew instead of a private ER for Weyland/Vickers.
And Shaw doesn't tell anyone she just birthed an alien shrimp? "Oh yeah, by the way guys, I just gave birth to a new lifeform. Yeah, it's in the autodoc. No, I didn't lock the door. Yeah, I guess it's still in there. Why do you ask? I just came from there, it has to be there still. Right?!?!"
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:50 PM (GQ8sn)
One time only, Against the Wall, a German film about Germans of Turkish extraction, starring Sibel Kekilli, who played the funny whore Shae in Game of Thrones. Great movie but horrific and sad. The merciless abuse of the gorgeous, unique Kekilli is simply too much. It's a movie about people learning too late what matters and losing out on happiness forever. That strikes too close to home.
Multiple times, Bad Day at Black Rock, starring Spencer Tracy, about a one-armed World War II vet who stumbles into a murder mystery in a small town on his way to seeking oblivion. A perfect movie in every sense: dialog, editing, pacing, plot, characters... I've seen it thirty times, easily. Uplifting in a hard-nosed, pragmatic way, in that evil is confronted matter of factly, without drama and shouting. Bad guys are dispatched without a second thought.
Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 12:52 PM (hzR9T)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 12:54 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:55 PM (5CDzH)
@501
Hollywood cynical cash in movie? Say whaaaat? If you could see me, I've got full shocked face.
I'm just glad Hollywood doesn't prey on our nostalgia for good movies with absolute crap remakes, prequels, and sequels (I am fucking looking strait at you Red Dawn. Don't you even think I don't remember you out there.)
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 12:57 PM (t06LC)
Worse. It has Something To Say, and it intends to inflict a sequel on you to Say it.
Posted by: Andy at November 15, 2012 12:58 PM (5Rurq)
Posted by: Thulsa Doom at November 15, 2012 12:59 PM (yEPg5)
Biggest disappointment of the year.
Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 12:59 PM (znT2j)
Intercom, "Governor Tarkin, cell block One One Three Eight is being over run by chirping little furry things."
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 12:59 PM (5CDzH)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 01:01 PM (5CDzH)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:02 PM (LCRYB)
Right there you've got a perfect example of how these guys don't live in the same reality the rest of us do. He thinks he can say that, and everyone else will just doubt what they're seeing with their own eyes.
Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 01:02 PM (znT2j)
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (ZPrif)
I understand your point and agree with it - but I say yes and no to this. There are plenty of movies that make tons of money that are total crap. Playing to the lowest common denominator (i.e., the least intelligent amongst us), is typical. However, that does not mean that all movies that make money are garbage, or even that movies with overt liberal preaching and stupid plots can't have some kind of technical expertise.
In other words, it is perfectly possible for a movie to make tons of money because people are stupid. I'm not saying Avatar falls into this category, just that it is possible and happens often.
Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 01:03 PM (sOx93)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 01:05 PM (1Rw2p)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 01:06 PM (5CDzH)
491 486 Wheatie,
No Deep Impact's Message was "government won't save you."
Trust me I got the message.
-----------
It was an all-government endeavor, throughout the whole movie.
The only non-government characters were a kid with a telescope...and a News Babe.
Deep Impact ended with a scene showing how the Govt was still in place, in control of everything.
Deep Impact was a tribute to Liberal Themes.
Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 01:06 PM (ICEh3)
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at November 15, 2012 01:07 PM (1hM1d)
You got that too?
Glad I'm not alone it was the first "fuck you" that registered from Spielberg to me.
Munich was the straw.
I can't even count the ways Saving Private Ryan was anti-American.
How about the Bible-verse quoting sniper with his magic '03 Springfield that never needs reloading? Or when the wall falls down, revealing Germans who don't fire, it's Ted Danson who mows them all down?
Or someone shooting the unarmed German tanker in the face as he emerges bloody and defeated from his Tiger? Or the number of times Americans shot fleeing Germans in the back?
Notice how the Americans always killed everyone they shot, never wounding them? We never saw Americans rendering aid to Germans. D-Day footage is full of American corpsmen treating wounded Germans.
When the American flamethrower operator sprays the bunker at the beginning and the flaming Germans jump out (bullshit, because a portable flamethrower doesn't spray enough oil to completely engulf several people head to toe), someone yells, "Don't shoot 'em! Let 'em burn!"
This is how Spielberg actually sees his countrymen.
And don't forget that Tom Hanks said that the war in Europe was justified but the war in the Pacific was fought only because we want to exterminate the Japanese for racial reasons. He'd apparently never heard of something called Pearl Harbor.
Hanks is one of the few actors whose work I avoid. He's now a pitiful, fat, hate-filled, watery-eyed alcoholic who doesn't have the moral courage to give up his massive wealth, so he assuages his shallow guilt by smearing men a hundred thousand times better than he is.
He thinks that play-acting at being a soldier makes him brave and honorable.
Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 01:07 PM (hzR9T)
Posted by: AE at November 15, 2012 01:08 PM (X+aDc)
495Actually Wheatie, Armageddon still depended upon two government furnished shuttles to get those idiots out into space. So your free enterprise saved the world thing goes out the window.
----------
Yeah...but those were two shuttles that would've been useless if Private Enterprise Drilling Experts had not been brought in, to help modify the designs of the equipment...and utilize them.
And the govt. people wanted to pull the plug on the operation when the going got tough.
Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 01:10 PM (ICEh3)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:11 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at November 15, 2012 01:11 PM (NmR1a)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 01:12 PM (5CDzH)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:13 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: MrX at November 15, 2012 01:14 PM (PxmNZ)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 01:16 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 01:16 PM (1Rw2p)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:17 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 05:12 PM (5CDzH)
Yeah that jarred me as well. But in theory you *could* carbon date on any planet so long as you knew the relative proportion of C-14 in the environment, that it was stable, and that lifeforms absorbed it only while alive.
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 01:18 PM (pAlYe)
Every single one would have made it a better movie.
Posted by: mycherrysmores at November 15, 2012 01:19 PM (qLxQ4)
3) -- Decay Phase (aka Obama 2nd Term)
The majority of the commercial phase ships have been nationalized and given one last paint job making them look like spiffy institutional phase ships. The few remaining independent crews become scruffier and scruffier.
If you accept episodes 1 - 3 as canon, then this is were Star Wars is
4) -- Galactic Dark Age (aka Obama + 10 years)
All economic activity grinds to a halt. Ships wear out as spare parts can't be make. New ships ... dream on, not with galatic-osha.
Small polities spring up as ship captains become the new feudal overlords
The barbarians camp among the ashes, eventually rediscovering stellar travel and the cycle stars all over again.
Posted by: Mark E at November 15, 2012 01:21 PM (Ri31I)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:22 PM (LCRYB)
But digs in North America were showing via C-14 dating sites that were younger than the sites in South America. You can imagine how that bit of data upset the Bering Sea landbridge migration concept. And now I have lost the link to the research paper that originally talked about the flare burst that occurred about 12,000 years ago that reset the clocks.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 01:23 PM (5CDzH)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:25 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: Hussein in the Membrane at November 15, 2012 01:25 PM (EX+sq)
Posted by: Brian at November 15, 2012 01:25 PM (Hd5n8)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:22 PM (LCRYB)
Yup. There are other dating methods using various isotopes and other techniques but they all ultimately depend on assumptions about the local conditions.
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 01:26 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:26 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: SEANIEP at November 15, 2012 01:28 PM (HNXCG)
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 01:28 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:29 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:30 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: SarahW at November 15, 2012 01:32 PM (LYwCh)
Posted by: Brian at November 15, 2012 01:32 PM (Hd5n8)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 01:33 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 01:34 PM (QupBk)
The primary natural source of carbon-14 on Earth is cosmic ray action upon nitrogen in the atmosphere, and it is therefore a cosmogenic nuclide. However, open-air nuclear testing between 1955-1980 contributed to this pool.
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:33 PM (LCRYB)
Yep and the assumption is that the amount of cosmic rays is relatively constant so that there's a stable ratio of C-14/C-12 in the environment.
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 01:37 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: Cobra-like Penisy Snake Worm Thing at November 15, 2012 01:38 PM (54vf8)
http://www.c14dating.com/agecalc.html
A CRA embraces the following recommended conventions:
1. a half-life of 5568 years;
2. the use of Oxalic acid I or II, or appropriate secondary radiocarbon standards (e.g. ANU sucrose) as the modern radiocarbon standard;
3. correction for sample isotopic fractionation (deltaC13) to a normalized or base value of -25.0 per mille relative to the ratio of C12/C13 in the carbonate standard VPDB (more on fractionation and deltaC13);
4. the use of 1950 AD as 0 BP, ie all C14 ages head back in time from 1950;
5. the assumption that all C14 reservoirs have remained constant through time.
Number 5 really gets me.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 01:41 PM (5CDzH)
You know, these movie review posts actually do go on for some time. Oh, and last.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 01:45 PM (t06LC)
Yeah, when the lone survivor was heading to the alien home plant, I hoped she was going there to carpet bomb the place with the biological weapons the aliens had created,
It's the only way to be sure.
Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 01:51 PM (b+jI9)
There are too many bone stupid people who must approve of the product while it is in production.
Good stuff gets made when they aren't watching ... and the sequels are always bad because the idiots always flock to rare successes and turn them into shit by injecting their stupid into it.
Posted by: Kristophr at November 15, 2012 01:57 PM (wYVte)
Posted by: Brian at November 15, 2012 01:59 PM (Hd5n8)
George Clooney is a raving leftist, but Up in the Air is just about flawless. Don't let people tell you it's an anti-capitalist movie; it's an anti-"job-as-identity" movie.
It's a cautionary tale about recognizing the important things in life.
Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 02:06 PM (hzR9T)
Posted by: Thulsa Doom at November 15, 2012 02:22 PM (yEPg5)
Posted by: Thulsa Doom at November 15, 2012 02:27 PM (yEPg5)
The goofy cook in "Forbidden Planet"?
Earl Holliman = white man = going to Hell.
Just wanted to chime in here about that.
Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at November 15, 2012 02:30 PM (RFeQD)
Posted by: Jack at November 15, 2012 02:33 PM (wUFaM)
We carbon-dated the stolen gold, it was from the 1800s!
Posted by: fb at November 15, 2012 02:41 PM (JVEmw)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:48 PM (LCRYB)
quite....Uncharted Waters New Horizons...barmaid asks of every creature you found..."did it bite you?"
Um no honey if I see a pteranadon I run like hell....
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 02:50 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:51 PM (LCRYB)
Posted by: drawandstrike at November 15, 2012 02:56 PM (uVLJc)
That includes the Title and the signature at the bottom.
Ah Ace, you've done it again.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 03:06 PM (SP4jC)
Well if they did that it would be sublimely stupid as that's f'n water.
You meant O2 or better yet would be N2, O2 and misc other gases.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 03:09 PM (SP4jC)
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (SP4jC)
My favorite W.T.F. was the foul mouthed unhappy geologist with a Mohawk. We are supposed to believe this guy having just mapped the ship's interior in 3D, can't find his way back to the Prometheus, despite being in contact with the Prometheus crew who have the map right in front of them!
Please, get a high school science student to read the next script.
Posted by: BIll at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (f/qE7)
Posted by: and irresolute at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (DBH1h)
Posted by: bill at November 15, 2012 03:20 PM (f/qE7)
Posted by: Brian at November 15, 2012 05:32 PM (Hd5n
It's worse than that I'm afraid.
It's more; "Do not innovate. Do not show curiosity about the Universe. Do not explore. Especially do not explore the Universe. You'll only screw it up like you have the Earth and you'll get killed by all the bad things that can happen in the Universe if you go exploring.
Stay here on the nice cozy planet you evolved on. Where you belong. Until the race goes extinct and the rest of the world can breathe a sigh of relief and get back to living life the way it should've been.
Bad humans. BAD,BAD,BAD. See what happens when you explore? the Boogie man comes out and eats you.
The song sung by nannies for millennia.
Of course this flies in the face of the facts; that it's our curiosity that has led us to the pinnacle of the food chain, above so many more pedestrian occupants. But the earth goddess types don't want to hear or see that kind of shite. Ridley is an earth goddess worshiper.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (SP4jC)
Come on Bill how many people can sit through a 28 hour film?
On I, Robot I am very much in agreement.
It had as much to do with I, Robot as Obama does with george washington.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (LRFds)
Yeah I watch Megadisasters! to see what the fuck to fear and avoid the left watches it for porn....
I remember first thinking in the middle of Season 1..."thank God we have a waning space program it sure would suck if that gamma ray burst had to zap two solar systems at once eh?"
ah well more important that ObamaFO lady gets a manicure than we have a true space program.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:26 PM (LRFds)
Another W.T.F....
I'm sure an alien race would design their starships to survive mid-air collisions followed by crash landings...largly intact! so the superstructure could roll around the ground like a giant donut. The money saved by not shooting such an implausible scene could have been spent on a cogent script.
Posted by: bill at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (f/qE7)
Posted by: drawandstrike at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (uVLJc)
Were they infecting the Unverse or were they taking these Aliens somewhere for some purpose and one got loose and crashed the ship? (that's the take away I got from the Playboy review of Geiger's art and the movie at the time it came out. And I only bought Playboy FOR those reviews and articles and clothes n' stuff).
Or was that what Prometheus is supposed to be about? Or Alien Engineers?
But not if Ridley directs. Or writes. or produces.
All anyone needs to know about Ridley Scott is that photo of him dressed in feathers and stuff somewhere I think it was New Guinea? Dancing with the tribesman with bones in their noses and/or nekkid.
That. Says. It. All.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (SP4jC)
Get back to me with the remaining 183,000 word portion and we can talk...
Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (ovpNn)
Posted by: Thulsa Doom at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (yEPg5)
Ace you have failed to grasp something very obvious. This movie is supposed to happen in our future, correct? Well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the way people act in the future. After all, we have a crony-capitalist mega corporation, run by a future Soros, that builds this ship and then has to staff it according to the affirmative action requirements of the day.
I would say that the surly, off balanced geologist could not be excluded because by the time of this trip he's 1: a minority (white), 2: a protected class (bi-polar antisocial borderline personality) while still being 3: one of the best in his field. His motivation for money is understandable since he is probably being given a substantial tax break for undergoing such a dangerous mission in a society where he would otherwise be taxed 75% of his gross income to help adequately "spread the wealth around."
As for everyone ignoring the captain, come on, that's an easy one. In our Obamunist future utopia there really are no "leaders." Sure, the captain can give suggestions but in this enlightened society everyone's opinion carries the same weight no matter their expertise. So the hyper excited passenger would definately be able to rustle together a exploratory mission just before dark on a never explored and probably highly dangerous world without anyone batting an eye.
When it comes to Charlize being the ice queen whore, this is probably the epitome of the Independent woman of the future. Hell, with the way sex has been trivialized in our time I'm actually surprised it took her that long to jump in the sack with someone in this advanced and socially liberal world.
See Ace, you're looking at Prometheus all wrong. If you take off your conservative blinders and instead focus on it through the liberal lenses it is meant to be seen through the movie is a spot on and very realistic microcosm of our future travels to the stars.
No wonder The Builders wanted to destroy us so badly.
Posted by: StreetDoc67 at November 15, 2012 04:12 PM (09ANu)
RedLetterMedia needs to do a proper review on how bad this movie is. There are so many stupid things in this movie that it would very easy for them to make a review longer than the actual movie and 100x more enjoyable. (Hell RedLetterMedia has done the impossible in my opinion and completely justified the existance of the shitty Star Wars prequels. I have watched those reviews more than I have watched the prequels and I still laugh my ass off everytime I watch them.) Anyway, but to Prometheus: almost every single scene in this film is complete stupidity. How about the scene where they are going to "trick" the decapitated alien head into thinking it was freaking ALIVE but sticking an electrode into it? Yes, my friends, the female scientist actually said "maybe we can trick it into thinking its alive." Um.... its been dead for 2,000 years lady!
Posted by: Drakkir at November 15, 2012 04:37 PM (bkeuv)
"Up in the Air " was screenwritten by a Canadian, and mostly filmed in the midwest.
I credit the distance from Hollywood with it's intelligence and success.
Posted by: Kristophr at November 15, 2012 04:56 PM (wYVte)
All anyone needs to know about Ridley Scott is that photo of him dressed in feathers and stuff somewhere I think it was New Guinea? Dancing with the tribesman with bones in their noses and/or nekkid.
That. Says. It. All.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 07:43 PM (SP4jC)
Cameron did the same thing (see http://tinyurl.com/cskp7zv), which is also why the script for Avatar is so bad. Both are Gaia worshipping directors who use the latest technology to bash capitalism and Western civilization.
Posted by: Worf, the Wonder Klingon at November 15, 2012 06:06 PM (E9Z5P)
Posted by: brando at November 15, 2012 06:15 PM (IPGju)
Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 06:25 PM (TMG3G)
Posted by: RJ at November 15, 2012 07:35 PM (QTVh2)
Posted by: Teen-aged Benjamin Button at November 15, 2012 09:07 PM (riIMi)
Posted by: Teen-aged Benjamin Button at November 16, 2012 01:07 AM (riIMi)
Funny, I was a precocious 10 yr. old when I started reading this review. Now I'm in retirement.
Posted by: Methuselah at November 15, 2012 10:12 PM (E9Z5P)
Posted by: TrueNorthist at November 16, 2012 06:41 AM (3Aixx)
Posted by: DM at November 16, 2012 06:51 AM (Z1NUd)
Ok the setting for the movie is the year 2093 and the engineers on the planet were killed off 2000 years before while planning the extermination of the humans they had created on earth. What happened 2000 years before 2093 that might have caused them to want to destroy every last human that they created? Let me think .... perhaps the birth of Christianity?
Ridley Scott perhaps sending a message about what he thinks of Christianity?
Posted by: Brian at November 16, 2012 07:10 AM (Hd5n8)
This is why I do not pay much attention to most supposed-SF produced today, including virtually all allegedly-SF films: If the same story - aside from minor touches - can be run through, with the same/similar characters and all the same plot-features, minus the particular scientific setting or base - the starting-point "what if?..." premise(s) - then...it ain't SF, people, no matter how "well made" or "dramatic" or "internally-logical" it may otherwise be (or not be).
Without that basic, ground-assumption setting of "what if the scientific situation/background/setting was as follows?", as an inherent, necessary element - the end result may be a nifty story (or not) - it's simply not Science Fiction.
Some such are, in fact, pretty good stories/films. But, for my money, they're a lot less interesting than genuine SF - which, admittedly, may be a bit tougher to make a film of, since it needs a different sort of internal integrity of setting and theme, and is tougher to "sell" to an audience, as they must grasp that different setting/theme as it drives the story - which, even with all of the "special effects" stuff currently available, is a much rarer production.
Unlike, say, The Lord Of The Rings, for instance - where the very nature of the entire physical system differs from ours - films like Prometheus are "space opera"; Prometheus, in particular, sounds sort of like the same story line as King Kong, with some different twists/quirks - which, aside from the particular "gimmick" of the Giant Ape, is/was not really much different from several dozen other "SF" films/stories which were not really SF at all, but essentially horror fiction of variations on the "dreaded nemesis" variety.
Bottom line: If the "different" science does not drive the story - is not essential to its theme and overall action - it's not SF...and it should not be accepted as such.
Posted by: J.S.Bridges at November 16, 2012 09:17 PM (eJqqQ)
Posted by: California Emigrant at November 17, 2012 11:14 PM (PtWOt)
Posted by: Scott at November 19, 2012 01:02 AM (A6Fz0)
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Posted by: red sweater at November 15, 2012 10:44 AM (CUi62)