1 I wish the Obama apologists would stop trying to hide behind Bush's skirt.  Geez you say you are better than Bush, then nut up.

2 And most importantly, Fast and Furious was not a "botched operation". By every bit of evidence we've seen, including whistleblower testimony from BATFE Agent John Dodson, it was working exactly as intended.


That is exactly what I have been saying all along.

3 Eggs? Never heard of them.

4 I guess I spend too much time in a cave but I have never heard of this Whittle guy. He seems to be on point.

5 If you've never heard of Whittle, check out some of his other 'Afterburner' videos....he's very good!

6 Rachel Maddow sounds like a pathetic loon the way she tries to dismiss all this as some conspiracy theory witch hunt.
Obama must be reelected so stop whining about all those dead brown people that she knows Republicans don't really care about anyways.

7 I don't know that I'd agree that F and F did what it was supposed to do because no one will answer the basic question of what in the world was this program supposed to do.

8 I can't go along with the "assault weapons" label.  Anything, anything, that can be used to harm someone is an assault weapon.

9 nothing has gotten me this ANGRY since 9/11......

10 Good Video, too bad it is not being shown 24/7 on TV news.  But;


Have you no shame


No they don't.  To have "shame" they must first have a conscious.  Liberals only have ego and ideology.

11

whittle needs to add to understand how to pin it on american citizens themselves (for instance , regular american gun dealers), to comply and  in some cases by threats  of losing their licenses and such if they did not comply with atf orders.

so it would NOT be pinned on govt actions but regular american business.

12 CBS:  Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations:    http://lnk.nu/cbsnews.com/22n5/

ABC:  Obama To Seek New Assault Weapons Ban  (2009)
 http://lnk.nu/abcnews.go.com/22n6

13 300 Mexican omelets and a coke.

14 The thugs in the White House had better hope this video does not go viral. As a simple actor once said, "A riot is an ugly thing... and I think it's just about time we had one."

15

The dolts that support Obinga will never understand this without condensing it down from a five minute explanation to about a 2 second explanation. Namely - "Holder convicted of a felony". So - while its good to attempt to explain it, the best course is to serve up convictions in court.

There should be no AMNESTY after the elections. R's in congress need to continue the investigations and convictions, including our dim whitted Kenyan.

16 The problem, as it always is, with assuming you know someone's intentions, is that some data could come up later that will refute your assumptions, thus causing your argument to fall apart. It's probable that the Obama administration was either intentionally trying to make a case for gun control, OR that it was extraordinarily incompetent to the point of getting 300 killed. It this point it looks more like the former, rather than the latter, but we don't know that. And it's also true that there could be data we haven't yet seen that could point to something else. The fact that we don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. I'm not suggesting anything other than caution when trying to push this story. You have millions of Americans who don't know much, if anything, about it. We need them to understand it. But our credibility depends on us not pretending we know more than we do.

17 Congressional legislation has been introduced to name the bureau's D.C. headquarters the "Eliot Ness ATF BuildingÂ’Â’ after the agent whose battles with bootleggers and mobsters in Prohibition-era Chicago inspired the book, movie and TV series "The Untouchables.Â’Â’

The naming really had nothing to do with the Fast and Furious operation, which has become the subject of a congressional investigation. It's included in a broader bill, introduced by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), who chairs the Senate committee that oversees federal buildings.


Why in the world would Eliot Ness, an FBI agent, want his name on an ATF building ?

I'm feeling generous today, so how about "The Barack Obama AFT building" or the "The Eric Holder AFT building" .. yeah, that's the ticket

18

I don't know that I'd agree that F and F did what it was supposed to do because no one will answer the basic question of what in the world was this program supposed to do.

 

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 23, 2012 10:18 AM (Gk3SS)

 

 

I'm unable to watch the vid for some reason but as Rush explained it yesterday, Wide Receiver was cancelled immediately after the tracking devices in the weapons were discovered.

 

Under FF, there were no tracking devices, so the entire thing was a sham. I had a hard time believing it initially but I'm now convinced this was an attempt at gun control.

 

These cocksuckers are evil, no two ways about it.

19 To have "shame" they must first have a conscious. Liberals only have ego and ideology.

Posted by: Vic at June 23, 2012 10:22 AM (YdQQY)

 

 

Well said.

20 Andrew, good friend, we need you back so badly. Damn.

21 in Obama's legislation 'global poverty act' (written  in 2007?), he does have a driver in there to assist in getting UN assistance to help regulate guns in america.

22 13 - I wonder if anyone at CBS News has any appreciation for the irony behind a statement such as "CBS has documents that show/prove..." Yeah, we've heard that one before.

23 Have you no shame


No they don't. To have "shame" they must first have a conscious.


Watergate did not have a body count.

24 I imagine the people in Brattlboro are so proud that the President is willing to take the heat for Executive Privilege to protect the reputation of President Bush, because he holds him in such high esteem that he doesn't want to see his reputation besmirched.

25 If you have not read Whittle's book, you should. Silent America.

26 blaster, the people of Brattlboro are busy sending their gravy bowls to the White House.  The entire concept of the Obama EP protecting Bush will sail right over their pointy heads.

27 26 - Do we know whether Mary Cloggeduphead is real or not? I mean, "she" reads like a spoof of silly liberals, but it really is hard to tell the difference, and as far as I know none of the regulars here have ever claimed credit for the sock. Also, there is a distinct difference between Mary's writing and "the people of..." Egad, we need a scorecard.

28

Hey morons, here's something for the sidebar.

Funniest thing I've seen in ages!

Drunkest Guy goes for more Beer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2XeVs4wqdE

29

Ha, up on Drudge, Mexico and DEA nab a "drug kingpin". Woot! DEA tards did good!

Half a day later, they release him, forever tainted, because he was the wrong guy in their war on people.

Can you detect my sarcasm at the stupid side of pro drug war idiots?

 

 

30 Yo quiero Justice!

31 Any Mexican shot with a Fast and Furious gun is automatically entered in a raffle to have dinner with the President!

On them, of course.

32 33  Too bad we can't register each dead Mexican citizen with the Obama gift registration.

33 I guess I spend too much time in a cave but I have never heard of this Whittle guy. He seems to be on point.>>

When you have time (it's long) read the essay "Tribes" that he wrote or the other stuff on  ejectejecteject.com.

Tribes  http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html

Forty second Boyd and the big picture   http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000172.html

34 Anyone notice the talking point yesterday that supposedly DoJ has witnesses that will clear them but Congress won't let them testify - Really?

35 En fuego.

Eject eject eject.

36

Matt Taibbi has a barn-burner of a new piece over at Rolling Stone:

 

The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia

bit.ly/PBlQ6G

 

Full-body slams Bill "Friend-O'-Barry" Richardson.

 

 

37 The Steyn article linked in the sidebar is worth a read.

38

Anyone notice the talking point yesterday that supposedly DoJ has witnesses that will clear them but Congress won't let them testify

 

I'll take 'dead men tell no tales' for a thousand, Alex

 

 

39 Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 23, 2012 10:42 AM (tf9Ne) Thanks Buzz, I'll do that.

40 Do we know whether Mary Cloggeduphead is real or not? I mean, "she" reads like a spoof of silly liberals


She is a spoof. I think if you watch the hash, you could figure out who is doing it. I believe it is a fairly well known commenter.


Mary the Clog probably inspired "The People of", who also strike me as a spoof.


The actual humanoids living in Brattleboro, I have no idea WTF is wrong with them.

41 Wait for a "Border Patrol Agents are instruments of racist oppression" stories. They are coming.

42 42 - I must admit my hash-watching skills are not perfect. Some I recognize immediately (a certain name-changing cat lover), others I only figure out after the fact. Ace's hash changed recently, and I use to know it, but now I don't. Does he ever sock? I don't think I've noticed him doing so, but I don't know for sure.

43

from jon stewart f and f thread.

we should help issa etc on reiterating a list of WHY  this operation was different AND malicious.

 

17 I can't watch the video at the moment, but does he at any point mention that:

A) There were no tracking devices on the guns; and
B) Agents who actually attempted to interdict the guns before they crossed the border were ordered to stand down; and
C) The Mexican government knew fuck-all about the program

Because if not, then he's still not telling the whole story.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at June 22, 2012 01:12 PM (4df7R)

 

D)  the fact gun dealers were coerced to sell guns to people they believed were a problem.

why?

44 One thing to keep in mind: People doing bad things very rarely think they're the bad guys. To paraphrase Det. Mills in Se7en, it's not like they're sitting around doing their thing and then suddenly think: Wow - it is amazing how fucking evil I really am! When this first broke, I heard liberals try to make this defense of Fast and Furious: The cartels were going to get guns anyway. People were going to die anyway. This operation probably didn't add significantly to the carnage that was underway in any case. And that's what makes the conspiracy theory chillingly plausible to me. Because that rationalization isn't so far removed from the logic required to plan this on purpose: It's already happening - but if we do this we can accomplish something good and necessary.

45 Ace has socked a lot.

46 Mary Clog is hilarious. It took me awhile to get the joke, I admit, on account that KayInMaine comes in here to post the same shite WITHOUT irony.

47 Bill Whittle does an excellent job of building his case here. I've heard all the allegations before, but Bill puts them together much like a DA or homicide investigator would do.
 
Here we have some facts and dead bodies; now let's try and find a scenario that includes motive and opportunity. So far, all the admin has been able to put forward as an excuse is "rogue agents", "botched operation" and "Bush did it too". None hold up to scrutiny.

48
I'd like a plain omelet with a side order of toast.

*You can't have a side order of toast.*

Gimme a chicken salad sandwich.  Hold the butter, the mayonnaise, and the chicken. 

*You want me to hold the chicken?*

I want you to hold it between your knees.

49
Anyone else see the smug lib on O'Really last night, saying that he'd support investigating F&F only if Boosh were investigated as well?

So, who are the ones making this a political thing?

50 I wonder where the money from the illegal gun sales went?  I am fairly sure they wouldn't let the gun shop owners they forced to sell the guns keep it.

51 This is stuff I have been saying for months, but Bill Whittle puts it much better than I.  It's all about gun control and Holder and Obama will NEVER admit it.

52 What is dumbfounding is in AMERICA...Home of the FREE...this info is fucking intentionally buried/hidden by the press...think about that...

53 What is dumbfounding is in AMERICA...Home of the FREE...this info is fucking intentionally buried/hidden by the press...think about that...
Posted by: rukiddingme? at June 23, 2012 11:01 AM

As long as Ann Romney has a horse and wears $900 blouses, we will be on the job!

54
Supposedly something like 1600 guns were involved in F&F. 

1600 Easy Pieces?

55 Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at June 23, 2012 10:59 AM (QTHTd)

Kayinsane only posts comments that are in caps, short, and never on topic.  Whoever is socking Mary is at least on topic, not to mention the posts are actually literate in comparison.

56
As long as Ann Romney has a horse and wears $900 blouses, we will be on the job!

Posted by: your betters in the Media at June 23, 2012 11:03 AM (bAGA/)

 

or palin has a uterus and a garbage can.

57 Boner the Diaper Stainer is afraid the GOP might get burned by Fast and Furious. Dude, retire and go sell furniture in a small city someplace.

58 90% of the Big Gulps now endangering Mexico's children come from U.S. QuickieMarts.

59

nd that's what makes the conspiracy theory chillingly plausible to me. Because that rationalization isn't so far removed from the logic required to plan this on purpose: It's already happening - but if we do this we can accomplish something good and necessary.

 

that's f'ed up.   good and necessary.... that's legendary spin.

 

60 Democrats are just patient Bolshevics. They have toiled for 100 years to make the USA into a Socialist Paradise.

61

17 I can't watch the video at the moment, but does he at any point mention that: A) There were no tracking devices on the guns;

 

Yes Stewart mentioned the guns had no tracking mechanism. 

62 Maybe Obama was merely trying to exacerbate the violence on our Southern border.  He is a community organizer.  Creating chaos is his mission.  If he could trigger some type of incident, well.....

63 Whittle asks if the MSM has no shame.
No they don't.
No integrity, no standards, no pride either.

64 Posted by: real joe at June 23, 2012 11:18 AM (uT8L4)

But we have J School degrees! We must be perfect, above reproach, much smarter than you, and allergic to the flyover states.

65 who never sat on a two-holder>>

ISWYDT

66 C+ students who flunked out of pre-med?

More like flunked out of business or education.

67

When you have time (it's long) read the essay "Tribes" that he wrote or the other stuff on ejectejecteject.com.

 

 

Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 23, 2012 10:42 AM (tf9Ne)

 

 

 

I just finished reading that and it was fucking excellent. Whittle really nailed down what's going on in our society. I'll be reading more of him.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

68 Oye. He pissed. Me Like.

69 Posted by: butch at June 23, 2012 11:24 AM (nK2Sx)

Absolutely not! Journalism is the highest calling! We are the priests of a post-religious society.

70 We loves you Preznut Obama.

71 C+ students who flunked out of pre-med - go get your fuckin' shinebox.

72  This is what I posted over at Fred Thompson's site:
I wish everyone would stop referring to Fast & Furious as a “botched” operation. It wasn’t botched at all, it worked exactly as planned, except for the whistleblower part. The intent was to spread as many American sourced semi-automatic weapons as possible throughout the drug war battle zone in order to implicate “loose” American gun laws as the direct cause of Mexican drug war violence. They started that meme at the beginning of the Obozo regime with Hillary, Big Sis and the O himself all repeating the lie that 90% of the recovered weapons came from the USA

73 BTW, my previous was directed at the media cock holsters, not the moron mocking them as C+ students.

74

Maybe we need to stage a few "die-ins" in some public places to see if we can trick some media into doing their job? Round up some obviously hispanic-looking folks (make sure there are plenty of women and children) and tie their hands behind their backs, and have them lie down in big puddles of catsup.

 

Then we need signs and people to carry them and chant.  The signs should say STOP U.S. GOVERNMENT MURDER OF INNOCENTS!! on both sides.

 

Fix the signs so that they are made of two pieces of cardboard back-to-back.  Then when the media shows up, flip the one side over to reveal what's under it and you have a new two-sided sign: SEND ATTORNEY GENERAL HOLDER TO JAIL FOR 301 MURDERS!!

 

Facts are like kryptonite to liberals, but they loves them some street political theater!

75

I was finally able to watch the vid and I learned a few more things.

 

Really, really looking forward to The Grave Pissing Tour.

76 And I thought I was the only one who thought this was another social engineering job by the criminal, elite. Guess it is time I took a vacation from California and returned to NC for a visit with the cousins. Great Vid

77 Does anyone else smell Rahm Emmanuel behind the fastandfurious operation? Never let a crisis go to waste....

78 Wholder just killed 301 votes for Potus..

79 In addition to the question of what happened to the money the gunrunners paid for the guns, I haven't heard any information or even speculation on the question of where the AK-47s came from.  I am sure there are a few illegal gun sellers, but ATF surely had to supply the guns to the shops they coerced into commiting a crime.

80 Bill Whittle has taken over the top spot of people I enjoy listening to now that Breitbart has passed.

81

Does anyone else smell Rahm Emmanuel behind the fastandfurious operation? Never let a crisis go to waste....

 

Posted by: museisluse at June 23, 2012 11:46 AM (TLoND)

 

 

It could be. I have a feeling that it's just one chapter of many in their How To Fuck People Over and Gain Power and Wealth playbook.

82

Bill Whittle has taken over the top spot of people I enjoy listening to now that Breitbart has passed.

 

Posted by: AndrewsDad at June 23, 2012 11:51 AM (vYJuY)

 

 

Does he have a radio show? I like this dude's style.

83
I like this dude's style.

****

You ought to see him when he gets really worked up.  He always starts off really cool and collected, and as he goes along he gets more and more pissed.  It's awesome!

84

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 23, 2012 11:59 AM (UuLBC)

 

 

Heh, that's part of what I liked. I thought he was about to start spitting there near the end.

 

Righteous anger is a wonderful thing!

85 The AK's were variant models, not full-auto, if I remember correctly.  The AK variants you or I could buy at most gun dealers.  Also Barret 50 cal rifles.  The cartel bought whatever they wanted through straw purchases.. the shops selling knew or suspected straw purchases, but ATF told them to sell.  When one shop evidently said they didn't want to, the ATF Phoenix office told them they had to or face trouble with the ATF. 

It was all a way to insulate the government and have a paper trail that lead only to the gun shops.  I really believe Barky and his admin are up to their eyeballs on this one... goes all the way up.  But he'll be long out of office before it ever comes out and nothing will happen to him and his political henchmen.  I hope I'm wrong and Holder and Barky and other were held to account, but too many desperately want to look the other way on this.

86 Andy - excellent post.

87 All of this information coming out about fast and furious, just makes my argument that the weapons used to kill Officer Terry were left at the scene to be found.  Holder is a lying murderous cretin, who needs a 6by6 barred bedroom.

88 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

89 89 Yep.

90 I'm confident that someone has posted a link to Byron York's piece at The Examiner (6/21/12) , but I think it bears repeating:

"York: Obama saw corporate job as working for the enemy"

Excerpt:

"He calls it working for the enemy," Obama's mother, Ann, wrote after a phone conversation with her son, "because some of the reports are written for commercial firms that want to invest in [Third World] countries."


http://preview.tinyurl.com/7nqpd3t

91

 

The Leftists have been spinning 'conspiracy theories' for years....

Conspiracy theories so outlandish...that they were laughable.

Hush now.

You don't want to forward a theory that sounds like a 'conspiracy theory'.

That's what crazy people do.

Whackjobs.

That's who does that.

 

Sane people have now become so careful...to not sound like a 'conspiracy theorist'......that we have created the perfect cover for actual conspiracies to flourish.

 

Kudos to Bill Whittle for his video on this.

This was in fact a conspiracy.

One that goes all the way to the top.

And the Preezy in fact admitted it, by invoking executive priviledge...in an act of desperation to keep people from seeing the evidence.

92 91--" All of this information coming out about fast and furious, just makes my argument that the weapons used to kill Officer Terry were left at the scene to be found." Yes. Why would the weapons be left there? It makes no sense.....unless the whole idea was to "prove" that a border patrol agent was killed by our evil gun laws. I hate to believe that. I hope it is not true.

93

And the Preezy in fact admitted it, by invoking executive priviledge...in an act of desperation to keep people from seeing the evidence.

 

Posted by: wheatie at June 23, 2012 12:42 PM (M2JTb)

 

 

Romney's election team needs to beat that to death. 

94 Finally trending on Twitter, Dallas area. Some are saying it's an NRA conspiracy. Sickening self-blinded cows.

95 And Barack isn't the only Obama who feels that way. Over the last few years, Michelle Obama has often described their mutual distaste for business. As she tells it, as newly minted graduates of prestigious law schools, both she and her spouse could have cashed in with high-paying jobs at wealthy corporations. It was enticing, but they chose another course.

Could have cashed in, my ass.  How the hell much was Michelle making at that nonprofit hospital turfing patients?  $270,000 plus?

96

97.....Romney's election team needs to beat that to death.

 

Probably best to let surrogates do it.....lest the Dems use that as further 'proof' that this is all a "political witch hunt".

Which is what they're already trying to dismiss it as.

97 Silly Americains! I am like ze cat. On my feet I am always landing! And like ze cat, I am ignoring you with ze contemptuous sneer, until such time as I need your money. And like ze cat, I will make poopie in le box. Or le shoe. Whichever. Because I am like ze cat.

98 51
Anyone else see the smug lib on O'Really last night, saying that he'd support investigating FF only if Boosh were investigated as well?

So, who are the ones making this a political thing?

*********

O'Reilly was just as bad.  the only justification for Congress getting to the bottom of F&F, in his view, is the "right" of Agent Terry's parents to know the truth.

Nothing about obstruction of justice, possible perjury, possible intentionally misleading Congress, constitutional oversight of an executive department created and funded by Congress, etc.

O'R can't talk about those things unless he has one of the Legal Femmes there to set him straight about every stupid assertion he makes.  

He's a man of limited education---and it shows.

Increasingly, he's a waste of bandwidth.

99

Posted by: wheatie at June 23, 2012 12:52 PM (M2JTb)

 

 

Maybe but on its face, the act itself is pretty damning. Just run some ads saying something to the effect of, "What is Obama trying to hide?"

100 Anyone remember when Bono came out about all this "guns crossing the border into Mexico" ... "and we must do something!" pre-engineered pop-crap ?

101 The HuffPo regulars seem to believe that if they scream "BUSH!" in caps enough, Fast and Furious will go away.  And so will Brian Terry's family.

102

The HuffPo regulars seem to believe that if they scream "BUSH!" in caps enough, Fast and Furious will go away. And so will Brian Terry's family.

 

Posted by: Quint&Jessel, Sea of Azof, Bly, UK at June 23, 2012 01:03 PM (SmOV4)

 

 

I've not had the displeasure of actually reading the comments at that septic tank but I'm awfully tempted.

103 14 300 Mexican omelets and a coke.

Via con Huevos!

104

103....Maybe but on its face, the act itself is pretty damning. Just run some ads saying something to the effect of, "What is Obama trying to hide?"

 

Yeah.

Or...."What vital security interest could there be in this?"

 

But we are hoping that Romney...if elected...will use EO's to undo some of the damage that's been done.

An executive order can be used for...'good'...as well as 'bad'.

Romney's already mentioned some of the EO's he'd like to make.

So it's a touchy subject.

 

Barky's appologists are already pointing to both Bush's EO's, to dismiss this.

And the Bush family have been supportive of Romney, back in the primaries.

Which makes the subject even touchier.

105 "Operation Wide Receiver" ended in 2007, long before the SCoaMF's administration.

Another "point that cannot be repeated often or loudly enough."

This fact seems to be forgotten, even by those of us on the right - including Bill Whittle.

106 80 And I thought I was the only one who thought this was another social engineering job by the criminal, elite.
Guess it is time I took a vacation from California and returned to NC for a visit with the cousins. Great Vid

Posted by: Clemenza at June 23, 2012 11:44 AM (qA9lG)

Bill Whittle lives in the People's Republic of Cali and so do I...for now.

And yes, Bill's essay "Tribes" from several years ago is a masterpiece. I've quoted it many times.

107 Anything Barky did with an XO can be undone with an XO.

108

Could have been stronger if instead of saying he "believed" that the purpose was for the guns to be used in crime he had noted that the actual stated plan for "tracing" the guns was to re-acquire their locations WHEN THEY WERE FOUND AT CRIME SCENES:

 

"Agent Dodson and other sources say the gun walking strategy was approved all the way up to the Justice Department. The idea was to see where the guns ended up, build a big case and take down a cartel. And it was all kept secret from Mexico." [At my link.]

 

The crime scene where a gun was found to have "ended up" would at the least be the arrest of a gang member in possession of the illegal gun, but in many cases it was a violent crime scene: over 300 bodies.

109 I like Bill Whittle but don't like his Tim Robbins Bull Durham Era Hair.

110

Anything Barky did with an XO can be undone with an XO.

 

Posted by: Vic at June 23, 2012 01:37 PM (YdQQY)

 

 

I'm remarkably ignorant when it comes to knowing how an EO or an EP actually works. Is it stupidly complicated or is it simple to understand? I'm guessing the former.

111 Compare and contrast F & F and Wide Receiver  http://tinyurl.com/7yeeatj

112  97.....Romney's election team needs to beat that to death.

100 ...Probably best to let surrogates do it.

--

Given that Romney agrees that the best defense is a good offense, NO! It is not "best" to ignore this insanity as if not worth concern, leaving our Constitution  a hill beneath Romney's dignity to champion.

Mr. Virtual Varmint Hunter shows his hand on gun rights, border security, and human rights. He's aligned with Obama on twisting the blame/guilt of Fast and Furious onto American civilian tax payers in order to rationalize "balance" via perpetuated executive ordered "have a heart" Dream Act shit.

This bull shit from Romney supporters is dumber than any rationale used against modern Coolidge Republicans. Romknees consider their sainted, lofty white washed candidate as too righteous to come down to earth until the 2nd Coming.

 /The more insane and unsubstantiated the propaganda, the more people believe it, the more readily they swallow the swill. Review "GARBO: The Spy."/

113

Posted by: baldilocks at June 23, 2012 01:19 PM (6kWFm)

 

That was great. I'd put it on par with Evan Sayet's "How Modern Liberals Think."

 

It's almost bizarre how some of us need great thinkers to educate us as to why a very powerful yet small minority of people want to enslave us.

114

Aw, I miss the ampersand . Here is the link again, cleanly:    http://tinyurl.com/7yeeatj

115

116....This bull shit from Romney supporters is dumber than any rationale used against modern Coolidge Republicans. Romknees consider their sainted, lofty white washed candidate as too righteous to come down to earth until the 2nd Coming.

 

Phffft.

I was a Perry supporter.

But the primaries are over.....and now it's time to win this, with the guy we've got.

No matter who the R-candidate was, I would hope that they'd tread lightly on this scandal.

 

Barky has been the one to "come down to earth" and jump in front of a camera...to weigh in on things for political gain.

Like the Trayvon case.

It's not smart.

And it backfires.

116 ErikW at June 23, 2012 01:42 PM (O4DO/) http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresidentandcabinet/a/Presidential-Executive-Orders.htm

117 An XO is nothing more than a new law or regulation issued by the President. Supposedly he can only do it regarding executive departments for which he already has authority over by existing statute  However, that seems to get stretched hard lately.  Akin to an XO is a Presidential Finding. Usually those are just used to issue an interpretation of a definition under some existing law.


EP I assume is executive privilege.  That has also been around for a long time but most people associate it with Nixon refusing to provide answers and material for congress in investigating Watergate. 


EP is supposed to be part of the 3 branch system of government. Presidents attempt to maintain as much of their power as possible and maintain that Congress can not interfere with the legitimate powers of the other branches of government.


This has only become a real issue under modern politics in which congress attempts to "investigate" wrongdoing by the executive branch. They really have no authority to do that.  Their committee investigation power is supposed to be ONLY for the purpose of writing legislation.

118 Their committee investigation power is supposed to be ONLY for the purpose of writing legislation. Posted by: Vic at June 23, 2012 02:01 PM (YdQQY) Two words: Congressional Oversight

119

Their committee investigation power is supposed to be ONLY for the purpose of writing legislation.

Posted by: Vic at June 23, 2012 02:01 PM (YdQQY)

Two words: Congressional Oversight

Posted by: IdowhatIwant at June 23, 2012 02:05 PM (a4CUi)

 

 

Yeah, that tripped me up too. I guess my next question would be why? If Congress can't investigate misdoings by the White House, who can?

 

It obviously couldn't be the DOJ. Who has authority? And yeah, I don't know how Congressional Oversight works either.

120 There's also the issue of a letter written to the committee, that contained a pack of lies, obfuscations, and denials.

And, a second letter, withdrawing the first letter. In other words, an admittance of lying and obfuscation.

121 Just watched this, it's great!  And the Mark Steyn piece linked in the sidebar, had to keep wiping the tears of laughter out of my eyes in order to continue reading.  For all the fear and loathing of these last few years, it warms the cockles to remember that we have some truly great people in our line-up.  Many of whom are right here on the HQ!

122 Oversight is an implied Congressional power and functions as a check on Executive branch abuses/incompetence. The power to impeach is related and explicitly set forth in Article II. See Federalist 51 and SCOTUS decisions McGrain v Daugherty (Tea Pot Dome scandal case) & Sinclair v United States Congressional Oversight powers are real and they absolutely have teeth.

123

Here's what Romney could say about this...that I think would be the best tac to take on it:

 

"This was a bad idea. ...The previous adminstration figured out that it was a bad idea....and ended it, before anyone was killed.

Why this current administration decided to resurrect this bad idea, is beyond me. ....But then, they seem to like....Bad Ideas." 

 

Then, he needs to just drop it....let others run with it.

Because for him to elaborate on this beyond that....there be dragons.

124

Good shit, Vic and IdowhatIwant, thanks for the brain food.

 

I'm going to save that for tomorrow cuz I have coals going and a marinated skirt steak that needs a good char on it.

125 Where have I heard this before?

This is Watergate with 300 dead people.

126 It is clear that the MSM is cooperating with the administration in an obstruction of justice.  If we still had the technology of 1973 and only three major networks this thing would be completely swept under the rug.  Fortunately the tools exist for information about this matter to be spread across the nation.  We have to keep posting on Facebook, twitter, blogs, et al or people simply aren't going to find out about it.

127 I am like ze cat! I am, how you say? Ah, yes: Invincible!

Hope & change, mon peones!

128 Dieu et mon droit, Biatches!

129 7 I don't know that I'd agree that F and F did what it was supposed to do because no one will answer the basic question of what in the world was this program supposed to do. Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 23, 2012 10:18 AM (Gk3SS) Actually, while they haven't confessed to their ultimate motive yet, the documentation and testimony so far indicates *exactly* what in the world this program was supposed to do. We know from whistleblowers inside and outside the ATF, and from what docs have been released, that they planned to coerce gun dealers into releasing weapons to known smugglers. Then they planned to withdraw surveillance and allow the weapons to be delivered to the narco-terrorists. And then they planned to watch the lists of serial numbers of weapons used in crimes in Mexico, to see when "their" weapons turned up. They knew they would be aiding and abetting mass murder, and they planned for it. I don't need to know their motivation to know this is a horrific crime.

130 And Juan Williams has just become a horribly offensive person. Personally I would fire his sorry ass for saying out loud that dead Mexicans don't matter. Hey, NPR was right, he's a bigot. Sorry about that. Of course, most of the rest of NPR are bigots too, so there's that.

131 Next, I may arm ze Klan. Just to see what happens, non?

132 A few comments on executive privilege: There are two varieties - Presidential communications privilege ~ This breed of protected information is direct communications between the president and any member of gov't regarding an executive decision making. This privilege is legally strong. Deliberative process privilege ~ This breed of protected information is indirect communications that involve executive policy discussions between presidential subordinates and not necessarily including the president. This privilege is legally weak. Privilege is an implied protection granted to the Executive by the Judiciary and has been around since the beginning. Lastly, under no circumstances may privilege be asserted, or be upheld, for the purposes of covering up wrong-doing, criminal acts, or civil harm by any member of the Executive branch, to include the President. SCOTUS case In re Sealed Case (Espy), 121 F.3d 729 (D.C. Circuit 1997) makes the above assertion crystal clear: "The deliberative process privilege is a qualified privilege and can be overcome by a sufficient showing of need. … For example, where there is reason to believe the documents sought may shed light on government misconduct, ‘the privilege is routinely denied,’ on the grounds that shielding internal government deliberations in this context does not serve ‘the public’s interest in honest, effective government.’” This business that the President can do anything he wants to do and Congress can't do anything about it is flat wrong. It will take time to process, but BO and dick-Holder are going to lose this case and in so doing weaken the power of the Executive branch. This follows the rest of BO's stupidity regarding Executive authority being categorically rejected by the Judiciary on question after question of overreach. It will take time, but these asshats are going to lose this fight and if I were a betting man, I'd say several people who obstructed along the way are going to end up in federal prison. Issa may not have all the docs he's asking for, but he's got the coffin nails, and it seems likely he's also got affidavits from eye witnesses that fill in the gaps. Holder is well and truly fucked if Boehner really presses this matter.

133 Any one else catch O'Reilly on this? What a dolt. Hey Bill, can you explain why Mexico was not informed of the operation? And why wasn't Mexico informed, Bill? Why was no effort made to track the guns once they reached the border, eh Bill? They were tracked to that point. Why, you arrogant idiot?

134 Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 23, 2012 03:17 PM (bxiXv)
To paraphrase Juan Williams. "300 dead Mexicans? So what. A dead American? This is nothing but politics. And his parents are nobodies. Racist for criticizing Obama. Cracker racists."

135 Last comment regarding this case. I've seen several people dismiss this action due the the pardon power of the President. This is a misreading of the jeopardy dick-Holder is actually in. Contempt of Congress is not a criminal offense, therefore is not pardonable. It carries a penalty that includes a year in prison. Secondly, if Boehner green lights what Issa wants to do, then Issa will sue Holder in federal civil court, seeking injunctive relief through a court order to produce the documents he's already subpoenaed. When the court orders the documents to be produced, dick-Holder will either comply with the order, or face contempt of court. As with contempt of Congress, contempt of court is not a criminal offense, therefore is not pardonable. There is a key difference, though. Rather than having a confinement limit of one year, a federal judge can lock somebody up and throw away the key as long as the information subject to the court order remains relevant and continues to be withheld. This is a brilliant tactical maneuver, as it completely neutralizes the Executive's built-in advantage in the criminal justice system. dick-Holder is in serious shit, IF Boehner chooses to pull the trigger. Big "if".....

136 I still want to see the House rear up on its hind legs and start stomping on this -- beginning with the "no-namby-pamby" "Inherent Contempt" form of the Contempt of Congress action: "Under this process, the procedure for holding a person in contempt involves only the chamber concerned. Following a contempt citation, the person cited is arrested by the Sergeant-at-Arms for the House or Senate, brought to the floor of the chamber, held to answer charges by the presiding officer, and then subjected to punishment as the chamber may dictate (usually imprisonment for punishment reasons, imprisonment for coercive effect, or release from the contempt citation)." Even though this hasn't been used since 1934, this sounds like a great time for its revival.

Second, Holder's chief deputy at the DOJ should get a subpoena within 10 minutes of Holder leaving the floor,  with one week to comply fully. If no documents are produced within seven calendar days, repeat until someone gets a clue.

137 139 Last comment regarding this case. I've seen several people dismiss this action due the the pardon power of the President. Posted by: IdowhatIwant at June 23, 2012 03:54 PM (a4CU Let's say for the sake of argument that Holder and everyone below and around him are pardoned. And let's say for whatever reason they aren't subjected to contempt of court. We *STILL* need to know what happened and who did it, because the public needs to know what a sack of criminals these people are, and what they did, and why they can't be trusted. And the people need to know that they need to watch elected and appointed officials like a hawk, because this is the kind of thing they get up to. Obama lied, tried to hide, Mexicans and Americans died.

138 "17 The problem, as it always is, with assuming you know someone's intentions, is that some data could come up later that will refute your assumptions, thus causing your argument to fall apart. It's probable that the Obama administration was either intentionally trying to make a case for gun control, OR that it was extraordinarily incompetent to the point of getting 300 killed. It this point it looks more like the former, rather than the latter, but we don't know that. And it's also true that there could be data we haven't yet seen that could point to something else. The fact that we don't see it doesn't mean it's not there." WTF? "I'm not suggesting anything other than caution when trying to push this story. You have millions of Americans who don't know much, if anything, about it. We need them to understand it. But our credibility depends on us not pretending we know more than we do." Concern troll much?

139 "Posted by: Taco Bell Dog Gunned down with Obama/Drug Cartel Guns at June 23, 2012 10:39 AM (G9qZk)" Maybe Obama did have a motive other than gun control after all.

140 It is not necessary to show criminal intent by Holder and Obama; 300 counts of either Criminally Negligent  or Depraved Indifference homicide would put them both away for the rest of their lives.

These guys are lawyers; they understand how desperate their position is. Why else would Obama be yelling "Executive privilege"? By doing so he has admitted that there is something he doesn't want to see the light of day. Who, exactly, is it - who fears the light of day?

The DOJ is claiming that releasing the documents to congress could jeopardize ongoing criminal investigations - question for the DOJ: "Any of those cases involve more than 300 deaths"? Yeah,  I didn't think so. What a bunch of lying crap weasels.

 

141 Let's say for the sake of argument that Holder and everyone below and around him are pardoned. And let's say for whatever reason they aren't subjected to contempt of court. We *STILL* need to know what happened and who did it, because the public needs to know what a sack of criminals these people are, and what they did, and why they can't be trusted. Actually, a pardon helps in that fact finding because the pardonee loses his 5th amendment protection against testifying, since he's no longer in legal jeopardy. They have to talk and truthfully at the risk of contempt or perjury charges.