Ace of Spades HQ

April 25, 2012

British Game Show Contestant Thinks He's Captain Kirk Or Somethin'
— Ace

I had this in the sidebar, but it seems more fun than that.

Freakonomics suggest this is a valid, but "possibly not repeatable" solution to the Prisoners' Dilemma.

Is it? It's fun, but doesn't the Prisoners' Dilemma situation assume no cross-communication and certainly no side-deals?

That said, I give this guy props for his Kirkian Solution.

Oh, if you question that it's Kirkian: I could totally see Kirk pulling this ish with the Romulans over a Neutral Zone Violation or something.

Posted by: Ace at 10:55 AM | Comments (64)
Post contains 101 words, total size 1 kb.

1 It's a CONNNN...

Posted by: Dr. Varno at April 25, 2012 10:56 AM (5ybkc)

2 America burns while the President "slow jams".

Posted by: creeky at April 25, 2012 10:57 AM (hh+cN)

3 The Posts! They come too fast!

Posted by: toby928© at April 25, 2012 10:58 AM (NG097)

4 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at April 25, 2012 10:58 AM (8y9MW)

5 Honest to God, this game is more boring than a SCOAMF speech.

Posted by: huerfano at April 25, 2012 10:58 AM (bAGA/)

6 For those of us who can't watch, what's his solution?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at April 25, 2012 10:58 AM (8y9MW)

7 >>>>For those of us who can't watch, what's his solution? the kobayashi maru

Posted by: Nerobama at April 25, 2012 11:00 AM (KHo8t)

8 The President has been slow jamming us for quite a while. ...That's right IowaHawk, I stole it. STOLE IT.

Posted by: dogfish at April 25, 2012 11:00 AM (N2yhW)

9 6 For those of us who can't watch, what's his solution?
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at April 25, 2012 02:58 PM (8y9MW

Enter the Neutral Zone to rescue the Kobyashi Maru that hit a gravitic mine. Fire on the Klingon vessels and rescue the personnel.

Posted by: EC at April 25, 2012 11:00 AM (GQ8sn)

10 You mean, you've never faced the no-win scenario?

Posted by: Lt Saavik at April 25, 2012 11:01 AM (nj1bB)

11 "Golden Balls" ??? The Brits have very strange game shows

note one of the two contestants is a Muzzie --- the future of Britain

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, on a darkling plain at April 25, 2012 11:02 AM (Dll6b)

12 Enter the Neutral Zone to rescue the Kobyashi Maru that hit a gravitic mine. Fire on the Klingon vessels and rescue the personnel.

So he hacks the game?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at April 25, 2012 11:02 AM (8y9MW)

13 His solution is to proclaim he's definitely stealing (a steal results in no one getting the money if the other person also Steals; if the other person says Share, the Steal guy gets it all and the Share guy gets squat). He vows he's stealing, absolutely, but will split it, outside the rules of the show, if the opponent agrees to just go with split.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2012 11:03 AM (nj1bB)

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 25, 2012 11:03 AM (PoYwH)

15 He got a commendation for original thinking.

He doesn't like to lose.

Posted by: Jay in Ames at April 25, 2012 11:03 AM (UEEex)

16 watching Sky TV these days, ace?

BBC Seven, BBC heaven.......

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, on a darkling plain at April 25, 2012 11:04 AM (Dll6b)

17 He vows he's stealing, absolutely, but will split it, outside the rules of the show, if the opponent agrees to just go with split.

Gotcha.

That's actually a pretty valid tactic, in this specific scenario.
But you're right: this isn't "The Prisoner's Dilemma" which would require no communication between the two.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at April 25, 2012 11:05 AM (8y9MW)

18 There's more to it than what I described but I don't want to give away the fun ending.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2012 11:05 AM (nj1bB)

19 So he hacks the game?

He doesn't believe in a no-win scenario.

Posted by: EC at April 25, 2012 11:05 AM (GQ8sn)

20 ITV has the oddest game shows---or used to, back in The Day

no "Golden Balls", though. There's a good joke or two there, somewhere....

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, on a darkling plain at April 25, 2012 11:05 AM (Dll6b)

21 A human chess match where the pieces remaining on the board get a split of the prize would be kind of cool.

-- but that might be the meth talking.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 25, 2012 11:05 AM (PoYwH)

22 The Posts! They come too fast!

Posted by: toby928Â© at April 25, 2012 02:58 PM (NG097)

No sh*t! I've given up trying to keep up.

Posted by: Tami at April 25, 2012 11:07 AM (X6akg)

23 "welcome back to golden balls. After a big run of cash balls...."

Brits talkin' about balls ----splitting or stealing balls----final golden balls

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, on a darkling plain at April 25, 2012 11:07 AM (Dll6b)

24 I want a pupsicle, nice tasty pupsicle, mmmmm pupsicle!

Posted by: Barky O'McFuckstick at April 25, 2012 11:07 AM (otLZT)

25 Okay, I'm forced to confess that that's a pretty clever solution.

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at April 25, 2012 11:08 AM (RD7QR)

26 re: Human Chess

Start the prize out at $50,000 and reduce the prize $1,000 for every minute your time clock used.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 25, 2012 11:08 AM (PoYwH)

27
I do believe PD assumes no communication...

Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz Bunny at April 25, 2012 11:08 AM (tcSZb)

Ack! Just when I was getting into the Preezy of the United Steezy post, we get another post about Brit balls. Where am I going to focus my lurid attentions?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO supporter at April 25, 2012 11:09 AM (4df7R)

29 It's fun, but doesn't the Prisoners' Dilemma situation assume no cross-communication and certainly no side-deals?

Very specifically so, as the FOUNDATION of the problem. Freakonomics people are economist idiots who can only do math phonetically.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2012 11:11 AM (X3lox)

30 I agree, definitely a Kirkian move. Force someone into a corner and then give them an out.

Posted by: cranky-d at April 25, 2012 11:12 AM (UGLKX)

I saw this over on Volokh, and they were asking people to analyze it.

Seems pretty simple to me, convince the guy your crazy, that the only chance he has at all to get any money is to agree (that you're willing to burn the MoFo down out of spite.)

In that light the "least crazy" option is to trust him to adhere to his end of the bargin (you're either out money, or out money.)

Posted by: tsrblke (From University) at April 25, 2012 11:12 AM (U8W/7)

32 that was cool

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work at April 25, 2012 11:13 AM (7jxyE)

33 I posted on the CAC thread, but the thread, she go away,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, on a darkling plain at April 25, 2012 11:15 AM (Dll6b)

34 Ack! I get out of the shower and there's a workman I did not expect to see right outside the very large curtainless window. It faces off into a dense woods on steep hill so I never think about it. He didn't throw up though, so there's that.

Posted by: Jade Sea provider of peep shows at April 25, 2012 11:15 AM (7id6Y)

35 31 I saw this over on Volokh, and they were asking people to analyze it. Seems pretty simple to me, convince the guy your crazy, that the only chance he has at all to get any money is to agree (that you're willing to burn the MoFo down out of spite.) In that light the "least crazy" option is to trust him to adhere to his end of the bargin (you're either out money, or out money.) Posted by: tsrblke (From University) at April 25, 2012 03:12 PM (U8W/7) **************** Basically "Crazy Guy" just eliminated the other guy's choices. Right?

Posted by: tasker at April 25, 2012 11:15 AM (r2PLg)

36 Who's got the cards? Fizbin anyone?

Posted by: chuck in st paul at April 25, 2012 11:17 AM (EhYdw)

37 Perfect solution. But now that it has been done, isn't the entire game show at an end? Though I guess not, because there are bottomless pits of stupid, greedy people.

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 25, 2012 11:17 AM (RZ8pf)

38 Did you know that plastic surgeons in NY are so desperate for business that they are giving people "spock ears" and having social events for only the people with "spock ears"....no link, you have to be in the loop to hear about it...bizarre stuff....

Posted by: angela at April 25, 2012 11:18 AM (oZfic)

39 Basically "Crazy Guy" just eliminated the other guy's choices. Right?

But if the other guy had been really clever, like Sicilian with Iocane powder clever, it could have blown up in crazy guys face.

Posted by: eleven - all in for Newt!! at April 25, 2012 11:19 AM (KXm42)

40 It's not Kirkian unless involved Orion slave girls

Posted by: The Political Hat at April 25, 2012 11:20 AM (DoaFB)

41
Do they did those golden balls in pudding when they both win?

Posted by: God Save the Queen at April 25, 2012 11:20 AM (gppu7)

42 The Prisoner's dilemma?

Who is number one?
You are number six.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at April 25, 2012 11:21 AM (Qxdfp)

43 So basically the fat one was worried about losing all the money, so he takes greed out of the way and sets his ceiling at only getting half the money. Now all he has to do is convince the other guy not to pick "steal" or he loses it all.
That's pretty genius.

Posted by: bigpale at April 25, 2012 11:22 AM (fp/yS)

44 I wonder what tribbles taste like, do you think they might taste like dog?

Posted by: Barky O'McFuckstick at April 25, 2012 11:22 AM (IXYmu)

45 In America, the guy's verbal promise to split the money would be binding, so that would be that. There would no monetary risk in putting up "split" after that.

Other than that, who would watch that sort of show more than once? It's just another of the reality wave of amateurs doing mediocre performances for things we have professional leagues for. If someone wants to watch this sort of play, one watches professional poker, not two shlubs making silly plays for a few thousand bucks.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2012 11:22 AM (X3lox)

46
9 times out of 10 the guy is going to pick SPLIT

the fear of losing it all trumps the desire to gain it all. The fat one basically conned the guy into picking "split"

Posted by: bigpale at April 25, 2012 11:25 AM (fp/yS)

47 curious so what?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work at April 25, 2012 11:27 AM (7jxyE)

48 I liked the reaction of the bald guy, actually sputtering at one point that what the hairy-headed one was doing made no sense.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 25, 2012 11:27 AM (k34Gz)

>>Who is number one?
You are number six.

Heh.

Posted by: Patrick McG. at April 25, 2012 11:27 AM (XdlcF)

50 phoenixgirl, I'm pretty sure that's her way of telling us she has spock ears...

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at April 25, 2012 11:30 AM (RZ8pf)

51 In America, the guy's verbal promise to split the money would be binding, so that would be that. There would no monetary risk in putting up "split" after that.

I don't think so. As I understand the rules, lying is part of the game. There can be no claim of a contract, as the other party can just say they were playing the game as designed. The moderator at one point even tells bald guy that there is no guarantee that the hairy-headed one will keep his promise.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 25, 2012 11:31 AM (k34Gz)

52 pgis lol

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work at April 25, 2012 11:31 AM (7jxyE)

53 I would have seen through it.

Okay, you promise to split it. We have a choice to split it without you stealing it. It can only mean that you intend to steal it. So, the only way I come out of this with my head held high is to screw you, so I chose steal.

Posted by: Holger at April 25, 2012 11:31 AM (zaVyn)

54 Damn, I keep forgetting about not using the gui for italics here.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at April 25, 2012 11:32 AM (k34Gz)

55 Kirk became a little too cocky because he knew that if he could provide the distraction, Spock would blindside an adversary with the Vulcan neck pinch. Or something.

Posted by: 9-Dimensional Golden Ball Master at April 25, 2012 11:33 AM (/ZZCn)

56 Verbal contracts can be held as binding in the US. In crazy GB, I'm not sure if that is the case.

Posted by: GnuBreed at April 25, 2012 11:39 AM (ccXZP)

You have to totally be in the loop http://tinyurl.com/7mp9lrn

To know about this http://tinyurl.com/3ru2t52

Because there is no other way http://tinyurl.com/7o2d37e

To come across information about it. http://tinyurl.com/5d9els

Posted by: buzzion at April 25, 2012 11:40 AM (GULKT)

58 If anybody has a better idea, now is the time.

Posted by: James T. Kirk Starship Captain at April 25, 2012 11:41 AM (xwGzJ)

59 Verbal contract, shmontrack.

The point of it is that he has altered the game. By declaring that he was going to go "Steal" and was all-in he forced his opponent into an option: "Let him have the money" or "Neither of us get the money"

By adding at least the tiniest bit of chance that he could gain from "Let him have the money" it became the better deal. So now it's "Let me have a small chance at the money" or "Neither of us get the money"

So of course he would be forced to "split" with those options. Portly Kirk knew it and that's why he doubled down on his knowledge with his own "Split"

Posted by: WheelmanForHire at April 25, 2012 12:01 PM (l8nIR)

60
The point of it is that he has altered the game.

I'm not sure about that. What else is there to talk about in that game?

But he did something that everyone who's ever attended an auction understands, why do two people battle each other to pay another more for the same exact object that only one of them will get in the end? If they both know they are bidding against each other, they can make a side deal to pay the minimum amount for the object and then have a coin flip determine who gets it at the low price. But, that's illegal in auctions. Bidders are expected not to communicate about their bids. But this game asked the bidders to collude on the bids for an object that splits without harm. And this guy finally did.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 25, 2012 12:17 PM (X3lox)

61 The game isn't strictly speaking a PD setup - aside from the "no communications thing".   And yes, I am a uber-picky econ/freakonomics nerd.

If it were setup as a PD, regardless of what Ibrahim thought Fatty Kirk was going to do, he'd be strictly better off going with "Steal" than with "Split" -- i.e. if he thought Kirk would go with w/ "Steal", he's better of going with "Steal". If he though Kirk would go with "Split", he'd still be better off with "Steal" himself than with "Split".

In the case of this game, Ibrahim is better off going with "Split" if he believes the other guy will "Steal" (and if there's any chance whatsoever of Kirk actually going through with sharing).

Brilliant solution.

Now back to your regularly-schedule debauchery. Unfortunately, I have to go back to grading my students' exams (and it is NOT putting me in a good mood - we have a dry campus, so I can't drink while grading in my office).

That means I'll have to go home, I guess.   First a good long bike ride to decompress, then finish off the grading (while drinking, of course).

Posted by: The Klingon Empress at April 25, 2012 12:38 PM (IC6Er)

62 You should tell the opponent to pick your ball and you pick his - and you don't get to see what's in your ball or you don't get to see what the opponent picks.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at April 25, 2012 12:45 PM (d9lOz)

63 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at April 25, 2012 12:46 PM (7W3wI)

64 @Clutch Cargo: "42 The Prisoner's dilemma? "Who is number one? "You are number six." I am the new number 2

Posted by: Number Two at April 25, 2012 12:47 PM (DoaFB)

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