Ace of Spades HQ

November 07, 2012

Catastrophe Across The Country: Mia Love Loses
— Ace

Here are some people who lost:

Allen West.

Rick Berg, for North Dakota Senate. He just conceded.

Mia Love, as the headline mentions.

Michele Bachman may or may not win -- the count is close, and her opponent is paying for a recount.

While we're mostly looking at Why Romney Lost, we have to also figure out why so many other people lost. People who should have won.

Why didn't they win? It can't be "because Romney drove down the vote." In Utah and North Dakota, Romney won easily. Why did some voters vote for Romney but then vote against Mia Love and Rick Berg?

The only thing I can think of is that the Republican Congress is even more unpopular than Congress generally, and more unpopular than Romney generally.

Why? Not sure. I think the Rape Abortion stuff plays into the "extremist" label but I've made that point already and there is surely more to it. For example, let's face it, most people with less money want those with more money to pay more to give them free stuff, and it's long been that way, and it will almost certainly continue being that way. That aspect of fiscal conservatism is also not terribly popular.

I don't know. I was harping on the Rape Abortion thing in the comments last night, and a commenter wisely noted: "Fiscal conservatism also proved to be not so popular, too."

One more thing (which I'd meant to include in the Why Romney Lost thread) is that Bush's maximalist military policy is also incredibly unpopular. Romney made a play for distancing himself from that at the very end of the campaign, but probably too late.

I think it might be folly to blame any of the three stools of conservatism for the loss, as all three wound up losing to one extent or the other.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again: I don't think the public minds bombing foreign malefactors. Given the popularity of Obama's drone strikes -- he brags to the press about his Kill List, so popular is it -- I'd say bombing is just fine.

The problem is occupation. Occupation is designed to spare the population of the targeted nation the horrors that will inevitably flow from a power vacuum -- riots, banditry, ethnic cleansing, civil war. All of it.

I think the public has now spoken pretty clearly on this: They aren't willing to sacrifice American lives for this latter purpose, this merciful part of military intervention.

It costs too many good American boys, and we wind up trading their lives for foreign lives, whose actual worth is subject to some debate.

If it's not evident already, the Neocon Project is dead. It's actually been dead since around 2006-2007 (and was very unwell before that), but there has been a cowardly reluctance in the Republican establishment and among Republican pundits to admit this.

A lot of us (and I include myself here) have just hoped that no one would notice this fact, so we wouldn't have to admit it, and we could stick to our guns and keep sort of claiming we've always been right.

Well, we weren't. We certainly misjudged how quickly we could transform backwards, alien countries during an occupation, and also misjudged the public's patience for such a project.

If we could do it in two years and then get out, that's one thing. That is potentially doable. (I don't know if it would be advisable; but it would be politically achievable.)

But we're obviously not looking at a two-years-and-gone situation. We're looking at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years, and the public simply loves their sons more than they like the idea of transforming Afghanistan into a pluralistic democracy.

I don't think they think that's even possible, for one thing. I can't say I disagree with them.

One thing we got a little too used to during the Bush years, and then during the McCain candidacy, was speaking glibly about doing "whatever it takes" to achieve this result or that. We are now suffering from Vietnam Syndrome-- a national aversion to war. Happens after every long, bloody, grueling struggle. Happened after WWI. Happened after Korea. Nations -- people -- tend to forget how awful war is during times of peace. They then go to war, and are unpleasantly reminded.

On foreign policy, we cannot speak in maximalist terms. For every statement we make about what we would do, we must limit that with a clear statement of what we would not do.

Otherwise, the public will imagine we want to occupy another country. Obviously we don't -- there is no appetite for that -- but I think we're still trying to pretend we think the Iraq Occupation was just terrific, so the public isn't completely crazy to take us at our implication.

I've said this before: I think the public would tolerate a bombing campaign against, and even the injection of ground forces into, Iran, so long as the ground forces were an armored column with the strictly-defined and limited goal of seizing nuclear material and then exiting-- within in days and weeks, not months and certainly not years. A strictly defined mission, always kinetic, always moving, always in mass, always bringing maximum firepower to anyone coming within a mile of the column.

No nation building, no protecting engineers as they rebuild electrical grids and bridges. None of that.

Nations will rebuild themselves. They always have. They don't need American hand-holding, and even if they do, that's their problem.

We continue paying a price for the Bush years. I hope Obama's disastrous second term, and the coming recession, will be the last payment.

By the Way: I think that even what I lay out -- bombing Iran, plus an armored column or two to dash to the reactors and centrifuges and destroy them -- would be politically unpalatable.

This is a horrifying thought, but here's where I think we are: Obama is pretending he's going to stop Iran's bomb production, but he's actually lying. He intends to let them have the bomb, then hope for the best. Hope that containment and deterrence work.

But the horrifying thing is that I think the public knows he's lying, and is on board with that. They just don't have the resolve -- or understanding of the future -- to stop it. So they want to lie along with Obama.

So, the course I laid out is something that could never be announced in a campaign.

Once already in office, though, it's possible the public would withhold judgment long enough to accomplish it. So long as it was in-and-out.

One big difference between anti-war conservatives and anti-war liberals is this: Liberals talk endlessly about foreign deaths, while conservatives are pretty focused on American deaths.

I think, on that point, the general public is on the conservative side. No one's happy about foreign deaths, either, but when push comes to shove, when America is threatened, they will tolerate them. They won't cheer foreign deaths, but they'll chalk it up to the Way of the World.

But when it comes to American deaths, most independents, and a lot of conservatives, start balking.

Posted by: Ace at 11:10 AM | Comments (539)
Post contains 1216 words, total size 7 kb.

1 I blame McConnell and Boehner.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:12 AM (jUytm)

2 I would just like to start simply. Say, with a cob-logger who doesn't detest the readers of this site.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 07, 2012 11:13 AM (ZrUUM)

3 Jewish vote broke 69% to 30% Obama.

WHAT IS WRONG with you people.

Jews against Israel in STRONG numbers.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 07, 2012 11:13 AM (UK9cE)

4 The hits keep coming. Fck.

Posted by: eureka! at November 07, 2012 11:13 AM (UL+ny)

5 What has Mitch McConnell done in his role as leader to win the Senate? What did McConnell ever do to make the people desire a Republican Senate? Nothing. And nothing.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:14 AM (jUytm)

6 Jacking income, capital gains, and dividend taxes ain't gonna be the half of it if Boner rolls over: http://tinyurl.com/a8sjezc

Posted by: Crashpanic at November 07, 2012 11:14 AM (zU+ii)

7 What did the House Republicans do in the last two years to increase their popularity?

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:15 AM (jUytm)

8 Rick Berg, for North Dakota Senate. He just conceded. ___________ This one is awful. Now more than ever we needed every seat in the Senate.

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 11:15 AM (r2PLg)

9 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 11:15 AM (/eBe8)

Politics is local, especially in the House. You would have to look at each district and how the particular candidates addressed district concerns. If an incumbent is an odd fit for the district, then they have trouble. If the incumbent has not addressed constituent concerns, the incumbent is in trouble.

2010 was unusual because a national wave hit House districts.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - counting the days at November 07, 2012 11:15 AM (hLRSq)

11 Israel won't rebuild itself after it's nuked.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:15 AM (QxSug)

12 Or ..... vote fraud.

they want us to think we lost for the reasons they make it look like we lost.

Nate Silver's map and the final EV map - which came first?

Posted by: 5ftflirt at November 07, 2012 11:15 AM (mUGdi)

13 who, Drew? Drew has always been bonkers on the subject of Romney. Now he gets to do his "I was right, Newt Forever" thing. There are going to be Long Knives. This is what happens in losses. victories paper over these simmering disputes. These disputes exist even in victory, but everyone is happy with the victory and sees no need to upset the apple-cart, since the apple-cart is moving smoothly. In a loss, we're going to have long knives, and we're going to have calls for purges, and we're going to have recriminations, and we're going to have an awful lot of anger. Drew is really a valuable coblogger. I think he's crazy on the Newt question, but we're all diehard partisans. We're all a little crazy about something.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 11:16 AM (LCRYB)

14 The voters simply do not care. Mention unemployement or the deficit or the fact that the military is being gutted AS we speak... they say you are uninformed. They call our candidate a liar...and then vote for Elizabeth Warren and Jessie Jackson Jr...those people are not logical other than finding a way in thier pea fucking brains to "logically" vote straight Dem. We want to soul search for a reason, there is none.

Posted by: Mr Pink at November 07, 2012 11:16 AM (++kZl)

15 What's a cob logger?

Posted by: Shingle at November 07, 2012 11:16 AM (BTwYJ)

16 They like their warm cuddly daddy Obama taking care of them (or at least saying he's gonna take care of them) He's gonna tell them what to eat what to drink, what to smoke (weed is ok! not really) what to drive, where to live, how many kids to have-or not have. But the cake is a lie and they'll realize one day that the fuzzy Obama blanket is a smelly, dank rag of despair.
Yeah, were the suckers who keep on working 50-60-70hrs a week, paying our bills on time and our taxes diligently, worrying about our families future all the while the tics suck at the teat of the monster our hard labor keeps alive. But you know what? When it all comes tumbling down, we'll be the ones who survive because we are not afraid of the hard work require to do so. And as God is my witness I will not lift a finger to help these scumbags out of their holes. They could be on fire and I would not piss on them.

Posted by: dananjcon at November 07, 2012 11:16 AM (jvd3N)

17 I have to think that DNC targeted election districts across the country. That's how tea partiers lost in red states.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:16 AM (QxSug)

18 7 What did the House Republicans do in the last two years to increase their popularity? Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 03:15 PM (jUytm) ____________________ Local elections, are very different from statewide elections, and a completely different animal from a national election. I am seeing this argument being made over and over again--but it is really an-- apples to oranges to pineapples comparison.

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 11:16 AM (r2PLg)

19 "7 What did the House Republicans do in the last two years to increase their popularity? " They avoided a government shutdown. I was assured the Grand Bargain would secure our win.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (iO3BG)

20 2 things that really hurt the GOP in Congress: 1. August 2011 passing the increase in the debt ceiling in exchange for magic beans to be paid in the future. 2. Allowing themselves to get punked by the minority Democrats with that whole Sandra Fluke thing.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (jUytm)

21 So many words about the unpopularity of congress and not one of them is "Boehner".

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (SDkq3)

22 This is one thing I've realized: People are fine with donating money and charity to help people over seas. But, once bullets start flying, we re-evaluate very quickly. And yet, for some reason, Republicans always seem to fall into the trap of being baited with questions about leaving all options on the table, etc. and don't realize they are setting foot into a trap.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (moRRg)

23 Lets not forget... Alan fucking Grayson is back in the House now.

Posted by: Nighthaven at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (HJwe+)

24 Be prepared to lose house seats the next time around. The mantra from now until 2014 will be "It's not Obama's fault, it's that darn republican house that won't work with him." My liberal relatives are already saying this about his first term (even though I point out he had two years with full control of congress to do something about the economy).

Low info voters will believe it because the libs control the media, and it's natural to hate congress.

Posted by: not the mama at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (kzCIn)

25 In my state, if Rob McKenna, a popular two-term Attorney General cannot even come close to winning the governor's seat, then all is lost for 8-12 years. We must go over that cliff. I'm willing to pay the price.

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (F6KtL)

26 HERE'S A THOUGHT... How about we check ID's when we vote?!?!?!?! Might explain a WHOLE LOT about who voted & how.... Again, just a thought...

Posted by: MJ at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (Rp5QO)

27 and we can't play this game both ways. There was no wedge in the election aside from rapebortion. Romney ran on competence. There was no defining thing for him, no elevator speech.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (QxSug)

28 Fox News just extended Dick Morris's contract. He is their go-to guy for election science.

Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at November 07, 2012 11:17 AM (W24rw)

29 West lost because the asshole FL Republican Party redistricted him out of his seat and made it more Dem.

The rest lost because it was the night of the free shit jackals.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 11:18 AM (YdQQY)

30 "Better start playing that game real damn soon." I predict more golf and 'clean' campaigns.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 11:18 AM (iO3BG)

31 and I guess the country is full on D+6 now.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:18 AM (QxSug)

32 I hope Obama's disastrous second term, and the coming recession, will be the last payment.

Not fucking likely.

Posted by: EC at November 07, 2012 11:18 AM (GQ8sn)

33 BEIJING Â— An explosive story about the massive wealth accumulated by the family of Prime Minister Wen Jiabao prompted the Chinese government to block the Web site of the New York Times early Friday morning, just days before a sensitive, once-in-a-decade transition of power from Wen and others to a new generation of leaders.

The article says that assets controlled by WenÂ’s family are worth at least $2.7 billion, a shocking figure even in a country where government corruption is rampant and popular resentment against the elite has increased in recent years. The scandal also complicates the apparent intention of Chinese leaders to tackle corruption as a main issue at the Nov. 8 party congress, a move they have been signaling in the wake of other scandals that have dramatically shaken the partyÂ’s core leadership.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at November 07, 2012 11:18 AM (e8kgV)

34 Drew is really a valuable coblogger. I think he's crazy on the Newt question, but we're all diehard partisans. We're all a little crazy about something.Posted by: ace

The question still remains: if he dislikes the readers so, why does he stick around?

Posted by: burned cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 07, 2012 11:18 AM (jo069)

35 I think the "Tea Party Republicans are blocking progress" line won the day. I would imagine that the response is "Gee, we were under the impression that was what you sent us to Congress in 2010 to do, I guess not!" I'm toying with the idea that the Republicans in the house may just have to step aside and say, "the American people have spoken" and let the Democrats have their way on taxes and spending. The next 2-4 years will be the "I told you so" period in Republican discourse as everything predictably gets worse.

Posted by: Formerly known as Skeptic at November 07, 2012 11:19 AM (91XRk)

36 They avoided a government shutdown. I was assured the Grand Bargain would secure our win. I'll admit, at the time I was in favor of making a deal. But that was only because the Republicans bungled the thing from the get-go.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:19 AM (jUytm)

37 I have a new theory on political advertising.

Pelt them with some many commercials that they just vote party line.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at November 07, 2012 11:19 AM (e8kgV)

38 We're all a little crazy about something. Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 03:16 PM (LCRYB) ---------------------------------------------------------- I like to dress my cats!

Posted by: Curious at November 07, 2012 11:19 AM (jucos)

39 What's a cob logger?

That is explained in the Platinum membership guidebook.

Posted by: fluffy at November 07, 2012 11:19 AM (z9HTb)

40 Is ANYONE looking at systemic fraud?

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 07, 2012 11:19 AM (JJ+PT)

41 If you define "valuable" as "wakes up earlier than you," I suppose you have a point. Other than that, I'm not seeing it.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 07, 2012 11:19 AM (ZrUUM)

42 Nations rebuild themselves? Cue the Incans & Mayans.

Posted by: rickb223 (I am John Galt) at November 07, 2012 11:19 AM (GFM2b)

43 It's not our ideals and beliefs that need changing. Conservatism is the way. It's the poisoning of our children for 50+ years and creating anti-American drones that needs to be changed. Forget the House, the Senate and the White House. We need to take back the school districts and the classrooms. Otherwise, all really will be lost and we are on the road to the ovens.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 07, 2012 11:19 AM (vCK/R)

44 This.

SOme of you consider me a troll for being in disagreement with most of what the GOP represents but to give some serious advice: You guys have a imageproblem. Mainly due to the Great War on Terror and its conduct. Hinting very strongly on giving Israel their war with Iran propably wasnt a winner either.
But also with your internet-appearance. Ive been reading the comments on Ace today, and seriously. All this hate-the-liberals schtick is getting pretty thin, you sometimes sound like the Jonestown city council. "Oh noes, theyt will raise taxes, Im going commando!". I realise that it is a principal discussion about the very system of the United States and all that, but its just a basic taxrise. Its not the FEMA camps.

To outright hate the president of the US as a lot of rightwing bloggers seem to do is downright creepy. A lot of serious people with experience in foreign lands raise their eyes in my experience. You guys should interview someone who disagrees with you now and then, its healthy. Hire Carl Prine.

Posted by: Fnord at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (hoJnS)

45 Eight long years of pain.

Thanks, libs.

I'm physically ill.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (UOM48)

46 I think the public has now spoken pretty clearly on this: They aren't willing to sacrifice American lives for this latter purpose, this merciful part of military intervention.

Well, yes, because it makes sense.

Look, people even understand, to some extent, foreign military bases. I don't think too many would oppose shutting down our bases in Europe and Asia, but not very many are exactly clamoring for that either. However, it never- NEVER- made sense to get into the nation building business.

The correct answer is maximum violence and leave, with a note that says "Don't make us come back here." That has always been the case.

The United States does not fight wars of aggression or imperialism. After WWII we could have secured an empire, if we'd chosen. Instead, we drove rods through the wings of our planes and scuttled a large number of our ships.

But, on ace's larger point- Conservatism is dead. Maybe it can be revived after the crash. Maybe Texas and some other like-minded states will Secede and it can be resurrected then. But as long as the United States is Constituted the way it is, as long as the 14th Amendment is enforced the way it is, and as long as the 16th and 17th Amendments exist, the game is over, and we are (at best) fighting a holding action.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (/eBe8)

47 Two waitresses talked to me about the election. One didn't want Romney because "He'll make everybody go to war." The other didn't want Romney because "I need Medicare insurance for my son and I don't mind lesbians." Leaving aside the standard AoSHQ lesbian discussions (and it's a sad day when they have to be set aside, even for a moment), THAT's who decides these sort of things (the ones among them who actually vote, anyway). If it can't be summed up in a sentence, they don't want to know about it.

Posted by: Whoever this is, it's definitely not Michael at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (JVCVF)

48 Paying for a recount? WTF is that all about?

Posted by: Gregles at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (BHM5V)

49 @42 it is something to think about.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (QxSug)

50 "I predict more golf and 'clean' campaigns."

-- I dislike nasty campaigns; I tried to persuade people that Romney was moderate and willing to work across the aisle compared to Obama. I swayed exactly zero votes. As much as I will dislike the political trench warfare that will erupt next campaign, I recognize that it is because moderates like myself failed to make a winning case for compromise. So, while I won't be doing any of the dirty fighting, I'll still vote for the people who have the best ideas and accept that I was wrong.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (moRRg)

51 We had Obama by the balls in August 2011. But the Republicans sat around doing nothing with their smug poker faces. Meanwhile, the Democrats did what they do best: they created a damning narrative.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (jUytm)

52 Crashpanic ... Read your linked article. I am a little glassy eyed but are they pushing this carbon tax bullshit because of a late season hurricane? I sort suspected this was Bloomberg endorsed Obama. Its all global warming! Its fucking snowing here now. My predication brutal winter here in NE. Heating oil and gas prices climb.

I am here in the North East. I hate winter but honestly I hope we get hammered this year.

Posted by: Long Island at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (EsJl1)

53 Stop analyzing stuff. This country needs to burn, burn, burn, that's all there is to it. If you have some kerosene, that might help.

Posted by: JDTAY at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (a0nis)

54 Afghanistan is not popular because we aren't winning there. We're not winning there because the military hands are tied by Congress and the White House.

If the military was able to fight their winning strategy, we wouldn't be there today. Just a few bases to keep the peace, so to speak.

Vietnam was a shitstain because the Feds got involved. They don't know SHIT about fighting wars. The military does. But they were handcuffed and told to win without killing anything.

This country now sucks and will suck forever more. My America is dead and I refuse to believe that our "leaders" will do anything to make anyone's life better other than their own.

We are now peasants to be forever dominated by the ruling class. The lazy society has overtaken the working class. The working class will grow more and more tired by the day and the money will dry up.

Not mentioning that Iran will have a nuke and we will do nothing to stop it, killing MILLIONS in the foreseeable future......

Doomed.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (UK9cE)

55 Here's what happened: a Father Knows Best Republican got mugged by a talented Alinskyite, abetted by the media (and Sandy). Just for fun, go back and re-read FDR's hard-core class warfare rhetoric from his campaigns. Obama is the first presidential candidate since then with the brass balls and panache to pull it off. Give credit where credit is due. This (f'n) guy is as dangerous as he is disingenuous.

Posted by: Cricket at November 07, 2012 11:20 AM (DrC22)

56 There was no defining thing for him, no elevator speech. Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 03:17 PM (QxSug) ______________________ Shoot can you explain this? I'm not familiar with the terminology.

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (r2PLg)

57 It's not over! I just got an email from the Romney campaign: "Polls are open for a few more hours. Your vote, and your outreach efforts, will determine the outcome. America's future is up to you." Now, excuse me while I go weep for a nation...

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (FcR7P)

58 17 They like their warm cuddly daddy Obama taking care of them (or at least saying he's gonna take care of them) I wonder if that scrunt from the first election ever got her mortgage paid?

Posted by: rickb223 (I am John Galt) at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (GFM2b)

59 Four more years of that idiot is only the second-most-annoying thing to me. First place goes to the fact that we'll never get a concession speech. If that's wrong, I don't want to be right.

Posted by: Whoever this is, it's definitely not Michael at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (JVCVF)

The libs I have discussed politics with, not too many in Seattle as they tend to get hysterical and nasty, all think everything that goes on in Europe is absolutely wonderful. They love British healthcare, they love France, they are oddly silent on Germany, and they pretend that Greece doesn't exist.

Apparently, we are all Europeans now.

Posted by: Tonestaple at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (V+wqJ)

61 SOme of you consider me a troll ...Posted by: Fnord

< scroll >

Posted by: burned cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (jo069)

62 Winner = Rick Santorum 2016.

The GOP always goes with the "next in line".

Posted by: Herbert Hymenhopper at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (W24rw)

63 Alan fucking Grayson is back in the House now.

This could be a positive thing.

Posted by: editor in chief at Breitbart at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (z9HTb)

64 who the hell knows what happened, can we even trust exit polls? Obama lost 9 million ish votes from 2008. where did those people go?

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (QxSug)

@13

We don't need to be kicking out anybody just yet. Although I don't exactly agree with Drew here, (come to think of it I was for Perry before I was against him) people have to vent and be angry about last night for awhile. We have two years for soul searching and recriminations.

Frankly, after last night, I'd say we can't spare a man in this tent either.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (t06LC)

#19:

Correct. House is local, Senate is statewide. There is only one national election, and even that turns into fifty statewide elections.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - counting the days at November 07, 2012 11:22 AM (hLRSq)

67 The way forward is through the states... a win-win deal for every state is a constitutional amendment eliminating the 16th and all direct taxation of the people by the Feds. Instead, the STATES collect all revenue and fund the Feds directly. What State would say "no" to this arrangement? The benefits to the states are huge and for 10th amendment small government conservatives the benefits are huge.

Posted by: scofflawx at November 07, 2012 11:22 AM (N1Rjx)

68 The drone strikes started under Bush, but zippy gets credit. Amazing!

Posted by: Gregles at November 07, 2012 11:22 AM (BHM5V)

69 I recall all the squishes saying we needed a moderate to take some Northern blue States. I don't want to hear about fucking moderates anymore.

Every damn one we have ran since Bush has lost and the turnout keeps getting lower.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 11:22 AM (YdQQY)

70 Matheson is one of the last of the Blue Dogs, and Utah seems to like the idea of sending a token Democrat to Washington to make sure they have the ear of both sides (wish we could convince Massachusetts to do the same).

Allen West lost because his district was drawn out of existence. Amazed he made it this close.

Maybe someone else can explain the Berg-Tester race.

Posted by: Embittered Redleg at November 07, 2012 11:22 AM (sSvfG)

71 We just aren't going to entertain the possibility that vote fraud is the reason. In the first presidential election with widespread electronic voting. It's that our message isn't being heard, the same things progs say when they lose. All the fundamentals pointed to a Romney win but he didn't come close and we are told it was turnout. Shenanigans.

Posted by: real joe at November 07, 2012 11:22 AM (PD2ad)

72 I don't delve into conspiracies often, but this completely reeks of one at all levels of government. How is it that some of the most impactful figures of the movement are being picked off one by one despite their overwhelming rightward support? Hard leftists promoting statism remain or return to power regularly regardless of their words, actions, beliefs or opponents but, somehow, conservatives championing liberty are always mysteriously removed. I can't believe it's messaging when it's those figures critical to the movement, both with message and demographics.

Posted by: Chester Copperpot at November 07, 2012 11:22 AM (d4C+6)

73 The election was decided by the majority.

The majority of folks either like Captain Socialism, or they could not be convinced to go to the polls to vote for Republicans.

Period.

Now we need to figure out why. It is a combination of a bunch of stuff, IMO. The war. The Jesus wing of the Republican Party. The ficons being tarred by the Paul'tards. Romney not being an inspiring leader ... polished and credentialed, but boring ... a lower turnout we have not seen since 1948.

We need to stop this.

- If someone attacks us, nuke their asses and take their stuff, and leave the idiots to die in their hovels.

- Jesus belongs in church, not the legislature.

- Replace the Paul'tards with real fiscal conservatives, and not the current crop of f*cking lunatics.

- And find someone inspiring and smart ... a Reagan, and not whatever Republican slogger who has waited in line to run. Romney lost against McCain, fer crying out loud.

Posted by: Kristophr at November 07, 2012 11:22 AM (wYVte)

74 Well thought out post, Ace. But I still think it's 90% about free shit.

Posted by: yinzer at November 07, 2012 11:23 AM (/Mla1)

75 Re: Rep. Bachmann, one of our talk radio stations here in Minnesota that covers much of CD6 just reported the margin was 4200 for Bachmann, and that the aptly-named Graves called to congratulate her.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 11:23 AM (1V6Pv)

76 elevator speech is a 20 second thing you tell someone everything it is about how great you are.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:23 AM (QxSug)

@66.

We all expected O's turnout to be lower. Bigger question is where the fuck were our people?

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 11:23 AM (t06LC)

78 59 It's not over! I just got an email from the Romney campaign: "Polls are open for a few more hours. Your vote, and your outreach efforts, will determine the outcome. America's future is up to you." Now, excuse me while I go weep for a nation... Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 03:21 PM (FcR7P) Is that like the telegram Kimmel got from George C. Marshall to be on alert as the Pearl Harbor lay in ruins?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 07, 2012 11:23 AM (vCK/R)

79 Prosperity? Hells yeah, I'm for it! When are you going to build it for me?

Posted by: The New Majority at November 07, 2012 11:23 AM (FcR7P)

Good post ace. Hopefully this whole analysis will put to rest the silly notion that Sandy played any meaningful role in this election.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 11:23 AM (uD2fR)

81 If we could do it in two years and then get out, that's one thing. That is potentially doable. (I don't know if it would be advisable; but it would be politically achievable.)

Here's where I'm at. I no longer give a single fuck about the Middle East. It pains me deeply to say that but I don't care about the little girls being maimed and the women being killed and the gays being hanged and stoned. I do not care. America has spent blood and treasure trying to haul the Middle East into the 19th century and the vast majority of the Middle East (not to mention northern Africa) is quite content to live in the Stone Age. Let. Them. Let them. I don't care. If those societies wish to live under brutal tribalism, their choice.

If you harm America, we will bomb the fuck out of you and then leave you to rot. Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone.

Great. I'm turning all Luap Nor but whatever. If the rest of the world wants to hate me, I'm stunningly okay with hating them right back.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 07, 2012 11:23 AM (Gk3SS)

82 "the coming recession"? That's a bit optimistic don't you think? With our debt crisis, Europe's debt crisis, an avalanche of new regulations, and disastrous tax policies on the way we're headed for a depression of climatic, apocalyptic, and unimaginable proportions.

Posted by: Kronos at November 07, 2012 11:24 AM (6EFOB)

83 Hey Morons.

I gotta get out of here. Shit is fucked up. Deleted all my bookmarks. Now only gonna look at pr0n and fantasy football. I love all you guys, but I'm gonna become an apolitical dumbshit. Fuck it.

Keep fighting the good fight. I can't bring myself to care anymore.

NRJ

Posted by: Navin R Johnson at November 07, 2012 11:24 AM (RRbuy)

84 "I can't believe it's messaging when it's those figures critical to the movement, both with message and demographics."

-- Democrats microtarget their constituencies, drive out their base and find ways to suppress the mood of independents who might break for Republicans. It's standard base-election strategy.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 11:24 AM (moRRg)

85 You're giving way too much credit to the electorate. I'd love to gove the American people a pass by saying they are left too ignorant by the traitorous MSM, but I can't. Almost everyone of us has all the knowledge of the world at our fingertips and it's still not enough for them to educate themselves. They really don't care as long they can watch American Idol or Housewives. I blame the GOP. The GOTV failed. The messaging failed. I'm done with it all. The election doesn't begin today, or tomorrow. Bullsh1t. I waited 4 years to say Obama was a historical anomaly and the damn GOP turns out less people than for McCain. It's no longer if, but when, we fall off the cliff and then what? I feel like a stranger in my own country, which I don't recognize anymore. People want statism, and they can't get enough of it. Look at the state initiatives. It's time for me to circle the wagons around my family and appeal to the only entity that can save us from this mess, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Quiz1 at November 07, 2012 11:24 AM (b/FsX)

It's not over for Allen West. He's fighting for a recount that Dan Riehl just posted: http://tinyurl.com/bl2fexe.

Posted by: ICBMMan at November 07, 2012 11:24 AM (DH4ET)

87 Obama will take care of the people like Ike took care of Tina.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 07, 2012 11:24 AM (vCK/R)

88 55: "Stop analyzing stuff. This country needs to burn, burn, burn, that's all there is to it. If you have some kerosene, that might help."

Real patriotic.

Posted by: Fnord at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (hoJnS)

89 Why would someone in North Dakota, which is experiencing an oil boom that is the envy of most other states, elect someone from a party that will do everything it can to stop that boom?

Posted by: zippy at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (eytQe)

90 I think it might be folly to blame any of the three *stools* of conservatism for the loss, as all three wound up losing to one extent or the other. _________________ Really--the term here is "stools"--am I missing a joke? Or is that really a thing? A saying?

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (r2PLg)

91 Get in, punch hard, grab the nukes and leave? Yeah, I can dig that. As for all the taxes and red tape and everything coming down the pike? I'm kinda with Skeptic...the people have spoken. Step aside and let them do everything in their agenda. Let the people see what they really voted for.

Posted by: een at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (o1Cwv)

92 I'm not familiar with the terminology.

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 03:21 PM (r2PLg)

An elevator speech is a short (maybe two minutes?) pitch about your "big idea" that you keep ready to give if you get in an elevator with some executive or financier (think Steve Jobs or Warren Buffett). Your 'big idea' could be anything you want to pitch.. a business proposal, research idea, job qualifications, etc.

Posted by: not the mama at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (kzCIn)

93 Great Depression 2.0. Wake me up in 30 years. Shit, I don't want to be that old to be rich.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (QxSug)

94 let's face it, most people with less money want those with more money to pay more to give them free stuff, and it's long been that way, and it will almost certainly continue being that way. That aspect of fiscal conservatism is also not terribly popular.

Â“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state lives at the expense of everyone.Â”

Posted by: Phinn at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (oFH2D)

95 What's a cob logger?

You don't want to know. Trust me...

Posted by: Bawney Fwank at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (5iuEW)

96 Some of us did raise responsible, great kids. We sacrificed to send them to private schools, rather than have them indoctrinated by the government.

We involved them in church and scouting activities.

We made sure if they wanted something badly enough, they had to work for it. Juggling school, sports and a part-time job? Suck it up.

Our son told us chilling stories of how the ROE in A-Stan are getting our guys killed over there.

Today he is angry and broken hearted that his civilian "friends" and hipster cousins voted for four more years of a man the military loathes.

I weep for my son and my country.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (UOM48)

97 Well spoken, Ace.

Despite, the understandable hand-wringing the morning after, I don't think the cause is dead.

If we thought the last four years sucked, the next four will be even worse, and not only is Obama not going to be able to hide it, or behind Bush anymore, but the veil is dropping from the press too, a little bit.

If you think the public hates Obamacare now, just wait until they actually see it in action.

The Dem brand with Obama in 2016 is going to be like Bush 2008, I think. I just hope by then it won't be "too late" for austerity or for repair of then-entrenched Obamacare.

Posted by: looking closely at November 07, 2012 11:26 AM (6Q9g2)

98 One thing is that Democrats are never held to account for their own mistakes and Republicans are held to account for the mistakes of everyone in the party.

Obama's still in Afghanistan and he never gets held to account for it. And, trust me, if Romney had done one drone strike, the ACLU would have killed him for it.

Obama, in particular, is the victim of all circumstances.

But I did have to laugh at this, ace:
the public simply loves their sons more than they like the idea of transforming Afghanistan into a pluralistic democracy.

"Their sons" weren't over there. They never were.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 07, 2012 11:26 AM (T0NGe)

"Stop analyzing stuff. This country needs to burn, burn, burn, that's all there is to it. If you have some kerosene, that might help."

And just a little while ago we were mocking Michael Moore for saying this in a commercial.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - counting the days at November 07, 2012 11:26 AM (hLRSq)

100 Afghanistan is not popular because we aren't winning there. We're not winning there because the military hands are tied by Congress and the White House.

Also because we've been there for 10 years. Afghanistan is taking longer than WWII.

I'm sorry, but the fact is we need to level the country on our way out and leave a note saying "sorry for the mess, but don't give us a reason to come back here."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 11:26 AM (/eBe8)

101 The only comfort I derive from Obama's re-election is that I invested in KY jelly stocks.

Posted by: The Chicken at November 07, 2012 11:26 AM (5iuEW)

102 Laura Ingraham brought this up this morning. Her theory, and she only focused on Allen West, is that he was targeted by the left. Because a black conservative is the most dangerous of enemies. Race is what keeps the left alive. She did not mention Mia, but I did earlier, in conjunction with Laura's assessment of Allen West. Mia Love was way up in the polls. Way up. And, she was an intelligent, well spoken, energetic candidate. There is no doubt in my mind that these two (at the very least) were strategically targeted. A black female conservative? Worst enemy, ever to the left.

Posted by: the next day at November 07, 2012 11:27 AM (LpQbZ)

103 yinzer: The loss was about free shit for undesirables, AND a failure to inspire Americans to vote for a winner.

You need a winner to run. Romney was not that. He was not willing to go for the throat, so he lost. Obama was willing to do ANYTHING to stay in power.

Posted by: Kristophr at November 07, 2012 11:27 AM (wYVte)

104 On to the next election debacle -- BCS Champion!!!!!!1!!!11

Posted by: CheshireLion at November 07, 2012 11:27 AM (zNDIM)

105 and why didn't Afghanistan turn into Obama's Viet Nam?

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:27 AM (jUytm)

106 @91 No other way to wake people up. I hope it happens worldwide.

Posted by: JDTAY at November 07, 2012 11:27 AM (a0nis)

107 I mean, to listen to the GOP is dead types is to think that we went from 62M votes under the hated-W to 57 votes to the oh-so reasonable Mitt because 5M old people died off. no. they didn't go to obama either. John Kerry got 59M in 2004. So, Obama outperformed Kerry by a million????

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:27 AM (QxSug)

108 It's not over for Allen West. He's fighting for a recount that Dan Riehl just posted: http://tinyurl.com/bl2fexe.

Posted by: ICBMMan at November 07, 2012 03:24 PM (DH4ET)

I'd give anything if he could win

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 11:27 AM (1Jaio)

109 15/ "What's a cob logger?" One who shits logs with lots of corn in them.

Posted by: scofflawx at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (N1Rjx)

110 I take it from today's events the Republicans are just conceding whatever level of vote fraud the Dems can get away with, forever.

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (bxiXv)

111 The Mexican drug war is about to move fulltime onto American soil. Strong defense types are about to find out people in New York, Pennsylvania and Ohio don't give a damn how many Americans die on the Texas and Arizona borders and anywhere in southern Caliphornia...

Posted by: M. Murcek at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (GJUgF)

112 Martha McSally will be a nice pickup. Maybe consider her a trade for West.

Posted by: Embittered Redleg at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (sSvfG)

113 because the Republicans are just too goddam patriotic to criticize a war

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (jUytm)

114 What's a cob logger?

Posted by: Shingle at November 07, 2012 03:16 PM (BTwYJ)

-----

....a heavy, hoppy brew made from whole ears of corn.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (yzX2R)

115 The public is not buying what we are selling. They want Socialism and free stuff and no matter how much history and conservatives tell them this is a bad idea it will not matter.

Posted by: ntac at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (rhHz3)

116 Nice analysis Ace, but I don't think foreign policy had a thing to do with last night's bloodbath. Nor do I think Romney's changing a particular foreign policy plank could have improved his standing. It's all been beaten to death already, but here are my Top Factors in Our Ass-Whipping:

1. It's cool to vote for Obama. JayZ even had a party for him. Romney seems like my Dad.
2. Obama will give me stuff. Romney? Not so much.
3. Dem electoral fraud.
4. Republicans hate teh wimmenz and they'll make me carry a rapist's baby to full term!!!!
5. I'm a union member/public employee/green energy huckster and I'm voting my pocketbook. (See item #2.)
6. Obama is black, just like me.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (QKKT0)

117

Still hearing lots of anger and lots of excuses (children), but very little about questioning your premises or even about changing your political strategy and tactics (adults).

When you want to talk about how immature your opponents are, you may want to take a looo-ong, hard look in the mirror, instead

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (WwR1j)

118 and why didn't Afghanistan turn into Obama's Viet Nam?

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 03:27 PM (jUytm)

MFM: I'm sorry, did you say something?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (1Jaio)

119 Problem is for you guys that all your numbercrunchers were way the f off their marks. 321 for Romney? Michael Barone? My goodness.

And all those posts about the polls being wrong. Oh yes. How many hours were spent on that? And Hating Silver, who got it exactly right?

Posted by: Fnord at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (hoJnS)

120 Allen West suffered from a horrible redistricting. It was going to be an uphill battle for him no matter what. He was redistricted into a heavy lib zone from what I can remember. And, it my memory serves me right, it was the GOP that did it to him. Insinuating that the Tea Party favorite was not welcome in the GOP. Allen West is outspoken. Can't have that.

Posted by: the next day at November 07, 2012 11:28 AM (LpQbZ)

121 We ignored the culture. We have lost an entire generations to public school indoctrination. They want free shit and think they are entitled to free shit, and it is very very mean for these old white people or puppets of old white people to not let them have their free shit. Between losing everyone under 30 and the MSM, I don't see how we get past this. Too bad the Koch Brothers and Newt's Nevada sugar daddy didn't skip the election and buy a couple of TV stations, one Hispanic, and maybe a movie studio. We are in a right wing ghetto and only talk to each other, we'd be better off pooling our money and buying news stations at this point. Telenovelos with conservative subtext and war games with free market context. This isn't a political fight and I don't think it can be won through political means.

Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at November 07, 2012 11:29 AM (8kq7+)

122 2 I would just like to start simply. Say, with a cob-logger who doesn't detest the readers of this site. Posted by: Empire of Jeff

I assumed you were talking about Gabe. If so, I agree.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at November 07, 2012 11:29 AM (Q0B9b)

123 Sanction of the victim.

Stop giving it.

That is all.

Who is John Galt?

Posted by: John Galt at November 07, 2012 11:29 AM (Bv9qa)

124 I know my district got reshaped, cut off a conservative leaning chunk and added it to a bigger conservative district, then added a liberal chunk to my area, suddenly were in a blue district.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 07, 2012 11:29 AM (NzBQO)

125 Ace: I don't know about you but I for one am so incredibly annoyed with this idea that every single function of government is wasteful and spends too much EXCEPT the military. Where did we get this shite? And OMG a reduction in spending in the military!? It will ruin our armed forces! And it will ruin communities! Well I'm sorry but we don't build an armed force to give people jobs in Virginia, MD, Etc. The same way we shouldn't build wasteful agencies to employ additional lame govt workers. There is waste at every level of government and we sound incredibly stupid and unserious when we claim that cuts everywhere else are needed but on the military hell no, can never happen.

Posted by: Brian at November 07, 2012 11:29 AM (T93zU)

126 "We continue paying a price for the Bush years. I hope Obama's disastrous second term, and the coming recession, will be the last payment." Once again, I respectfully say that your off the mark.It seems many are scrambling around trying to find a point here or there to validate the outcome of this election. Higher taxes, bigger government, unemployment of 7.9%, astronomical debt.No plan to alter his pathetic record. No president in our history has had those numbers and ran on those points and yet, he won. This ain't about Bush. It is nothing other than over half the country voting for nirvana for the second time. Now you could make a case that somehow the illegals that he let in were somehow fanned out amongst crucial states, given voting cards and voted but I don't see that as plausible although I do see it as a problem around the corner. Nope, half the country chose to take us down a path that I for one, have no idea how we can come back from. I don't see republicans out socializing the socialists but I sure see them trying being that is the only game in town but don't pin the blame on Bush or a storm or Romney.In the end they had nothing to do with it.

Posted by: Drider at November 07, 2012 11:29 AM (HaJD9)

127 think about it. 2004, W gets 62M, Kerry gets 59M 8 years later with god knows, 10 million new (i.e., brown) Americans we get Romney 57M, Obama 60M???? What is wrong is mechanical (and let's say that Mitt's soft sell strategy was a loser because he had no GOTV wedge issue).

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:29 AM (QxSug)

128 Politics needs to be utterly brutal. You know who won in the Russian Revolution? The Bolsheviks. You know why they won? Was it because they were the biggest group? Nope. They were a tiny minority. Were they supported by the military? Nope. They had to have Commissars watch over their officers. Were they smart? Well...no. Tsarist agents had so thoroughly infiltrated the Bolsheviks that they were in the leadership. Lenin didn't know it for a long time. What were they, then? They were mean. Lenin was a nasty bastard. He wrote a paper once that they should wage "total and unending war" on another communist group. Meanness is a winning strategy. Ask Stalin. Politics isn't a sport or a game. It's a war without blood. And we need to recognize that now. We won in 2010 because in 2009 we shouted down townhalls. This is not a time for civility, this is a time for strife.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (Hw3Gh)

129 "I take it from today's events the Republicans are just conceding whatever level of vote fraud the Dems can get away with, forever."

-- We can investigate the vote fraud. But, does anyone honestly believe that millions of ballots were somehow disposed of, in secret, without a single peep?

No. Romney lost, fair and square. Some of the margins may have been smaller or larger due to fraud, but the overall election was lost when a few million McCain voters woke up Tuesday and thought: "Nah. Not gonna vote today."

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (moRRg)

130 The Dem brand with Obama in 2016 is going to be like Bush 2008, I think. I just hope by then it won't be "too late" for austerity or for repair of then-entrenched Obamacare.

Posted by: looking closely at November 07, 2012 03:26 PM (6Q9g2)

This. Second terms never go as swimmingly as the first*. Ask Nixon, BJ, and W. (*Maybe Regan, but he might be the exception that proves the rule. Of course he had the S&L crisis and Iran Contra...)

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (t06LC)

131 When you want to talk about how immature your opponents are, you may want to take a looo-ong, hard look in the mirror, instead Posted by: Warren Bonesteel

Everyone except for you, right?

Posted by: burned cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (jo069)

132 >>>The way forward is through the states... a win-win deal for every state is a constitutional amendment eliminating the 16th and all direct taxation of the people by the Feds.

Which way do you want to go. Get an ammendment with 2/3 support through both houses of congress

OR

Get 3/4ths the States to call for a Constitutional Convention in which case the whole document can be re-written.

Because from where I sit both those look pretty damn implausible given the loss we just ate.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (0q2P7)

133 If it's not evident already, the Neocon Project is dead. It's actually been dead since around 2006-2007 (and was very unwell before that), but there has been a cowardly reluctance in the Republican establishment and among Republican pundits to admit this.

REALTALK.

Posted by: Links at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (RgIRJ)

134 Also because we've been there for 10 years. Afghanistan is taking longer than WWII.

I'm sorry, but the fact is we need to level the country on our way out and leave a note saying "sorry for the mess, but don't give us a reason to come back here."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 03:26 PM (/eBe

Proving my point that Feds fucked it up by getting involved and not letting us do our thing.

There's NO WAY it would've lasted 10 years were the military allowed to do military stuff.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (UK9cE)

135 Ace: "I hope Obama's disastrous second term, and the coming recession, will be the last payment." For Pete's sake, Ace, the REASON the Republican Congressional Caucus made the pledge to defeat Obama in the first place was because recovery is frickin' INEVITABLE. Look at yer U.S. economic history: every recession gets followed by a boom ... and this boom is there. It's making low deep tuba sounds underground, but it's building. That was the reason the Fed committed a month or so ago to keeping interest rates down 'indefinitely' - to allow whatever room there might be to let that boom breathe. The PROBLEMS the R Congressional Caucus foresaw is that we're turning Obama into another FDR type iconic figure, where the voting public and historians start crediting FDR's New Deal for the recovery, and then that eats structurally into the House. It's ALREADY eaten into the White House and the Senate, and now it's gonna be like a termite home invasion and eat away at the House. And next thing you know, the OFA and Orange Satan are going after the state houses. Obama's done ALL this off Republican ideas. The longer it takes to recognize this, the quicker the quicksand of time makes the 3 stools disappear.

Posted by: Rex the Wonder God at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (21TJo)

136 I don't get the electing blue senators in red states. Not talking about IN or MO.

This ticket splitting thing is boggling my mind. How is it that every key race went to the bad guys?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (PHb2k)

137 let's take a vote on Drewm and Gabe chalk me up as nay, and nay

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (jUytm)

138 Slightly O/T

I need some help from the math guys that might address Romney's lack of turnout.

Bush = 62m, 44% Latino
McC = 59m, 33% Latino
Rom = 57m, 22% Latino

When you crunch these numbers and then add in Latino growth in the demographics, does this entirely explain the lack of turnout?

Some of the horde has been blaming evangelicals not turning out in prior threads, but could demographic addition of Latinos, plus the huge loss of their vote, explain the entire difference?

Posted by: The Q at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (w4fEE)

139 How could this election be about the war? Obama expanded it and he won. If he was a Republican the MFM would be excoriating him over the war and American deaths.

And that is the secret; two things:

50% of the people pay no taxes and want free shit

The MFM is firmly in the tank for commies and the Republicans still kiss their ass looking for handouts.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 11:30 AM (YdQQY)

140 If we can Stuxnet Iran nuclear facilities, how hard would it be to Stuxnet US vote tallies?

Posted by: scofflawx at November 07, 2012 11:31 AM (N1Rjx)

141 They're already looking to fire people where my brother works. He's a good worker and I don't think he's anywhere near the top his employer's list. But if we return to a recession so deep they can't hide it by cooking the books I'm worried he'll get laid off. In fact, I'm certain of it. The next four years are gonna suck.

Posted by: Ed Anger at November 07, 2012 11:31 AM (tOkJB)

142 I weep for my son and my country. Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 03:25 PM (UOM4 Did he get to vote or was his ballot "lost or delayed" like so many others?

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 11:31 AM (bxiXv)

143 By the way, did anyone notice that China changed its leadership yesterday? Totally new generation. Things will be interesting.

Posted by: Fnord at November 07, 2012 11:31 AM (hoJnS)

144

It took a little over 100 years for Rome to pass from Republic to Empire and tyranny.

We are at year 112.

Posted by: goozer at November 07, 2012 11:31 AM (vsmH2)

145 and let's think. What is the GOP wedge issue. Ok, Ace thinks that military adventurism is a dead end. Fine. W in 2000 ran against it too. The economy? Gays? abortion? immigration? the left's wedges we've seen on twitter is all gayrapeabortionblacks. and they still barely outperformed Kerry.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:31 AM (QxSug)

146 It's unbelievable to me how many people yesterday STILL voted against George W. Bush. I've been having an online argument all day with my idiot sister-in-law who voted for Obama and for Elizabeth Warren. Everything I bring up, her answer is, "But, Bush." It's going to take at least another election cycle to get the Bush Stink off of us.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 11:31 AM (qe2/V)

147 My backstory is I liked Pawlenty. I'm the one guy. So much that I donated when he did his little truth telling tour. Then he passed on attacking Romney and backed down, and I was pissed about it. Then I was all about Perry as he stepped in, and he talked like the lawyer in My Cousin Vinny. I went to a Herman Cain booksigning in Nashville, and gave him a long look. By the time the MO Primary came I voted for Santorum as more of a protest vote than anything, which I now actually regret. Point is I didn't like Romney. Now I liked him over Newt and Bachman, but that's about it. And Romney ran a far better campaign than I thought possible from him, and I ended up giving a decent bit of money and a little time to him. I'm not down for the recriminations part of it as it concerns him. Part of the proof is the extent to which he crushed our senate candidates performances in the same states. He made his case pretty well, we just got our asses kicked, and it's clearly not that the top of the ticket was a drag. I am not buying what Drew is selling. I was wrong about Romney, and I was wrong about the electorate. And that's the shitty reality staring us in the face. They made Mitt F. Romney look like a bad guy. You're gonna try to sell me on the idea that Newt would emerge unscathed? It's a joke.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 07, 2012 11:31 AM (UvR6d)

148 Probably already been brought up but when Republicans drop bombs it is on wedding parties to the exclusion of all else.

Clinton can drop bombs, TFG can drop bombs. Bush can't.

Posted by: eleven at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (KXm42)

149 Afghanistan is not popular because we aren't winning there. We're not winning there because the military hands are tied by Congress and the White House.

And who gets the blame? Romney? Republicans? This was the war Obama bragged that he wanted to fight and he had 4 years to end it.

Obama is the child-king, he is never held accountable for anything.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (T0NGe)

150 72 Allen West lost because his district was drawn out of existence. Amazed he made it this close.

He currently represents FL-22 but ran in FL-18, which is supposedly more Republican-friendly. I do not understand it.

Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (YjDyJ)

151 @139 No way we're booming under QE3. Unless you consider Zimbabwe to be booming.

Posted by: JDTAY at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (a0nis)

152 I can tell you why Rick Berg lost.

1. Rick Berg truely is a stuttering clusterfuck of a politician. He's been running for office for nearly 20 years, and finally squeaked a win in 2010 for a house seat. Deciding it wasn't enough for him, he jumped at the opportunity to grab Conrad's seat when he stepped down. He wasn't necessarily liked in the state and from personal interaction with him, is a bit of an idiot. He's a bad public speaker, and a bad candidate. To me he came off as a power-hungry shit eater who was hoping to fall up. I held my nose and voted for him, as did 49.9% of the state.

2. Heidi Heitcamp is a household name in ND. She's been in politics all her life, and has a brother with a talk show that broadcasts state wide. She ran as a democrat who would "vote for north dakota, not Obama". IE a democrat in RINO's clothing. I sure as hell don't belive a word of it, but all it took was a non-stop ad campaign of "no, really, I'm one of you" and that's all it took to convince a few voters who look at berg as the abject failure he is to pull the lever.

I promise you, there won't be a single vote against Obama from Heidi, and I can assure you when her term comes up in six yers she'll trot back into the state claiming to defend North Dakota values, but there won't be a lick of truth to it.

Posted by: Dr. Mr. Badman at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (D8pR3)

153 We are now suffering from Vietnam Syndrome-- a national aversion to war. Happens after every long, bloody, grueling struggle. ______________ Terrorism is very different. The war was long--but you really cannot compare it to previous wars of attrition. The media brings it home now. Terrorism wins because it can be done on the cheap. They can adapt rapidly. They are not beholding to a government, an electorate--hell a country--or an MSM. Then we have our MSM... 9/11 didn't just cost us lives,it cost us economically and it came at a pitch perfect time for the terrorists--after a nasty election. Bush v. Gore. BDS--it is killing us too. It's easier to blame one person than to analyze and accept the complexities.

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (r2PLg)

154 50% of the people pay no taxes and want free shit

this is per Vic. he is right of course

Posted by: kelley in virginia at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (HNwOT)

155 Posted by: Rex the Wonder God STFU, dunce.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (jUytm)

156 89 Honestly, the GOP needs to growone pair of balls. It has to stop bringing pillows toa gun fight. Obama and crew know they have the media and goons tohelp his"message". Bring the pain. Honestly, bring the pain. Sequestration ---- hell ya. Hey, sorry North Virginia, your gonnalosea lotof jobs, but,since you voted Obama last night, I just don't care. Your not our friends, so you get punished. Let all the tax cuts expire. Screw it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!

Posted by: rickb223 (I am John Galt) at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (GFM2b)

157 I'm burned out. Going dark for awhile.

Good luck and I hope to see yall on the other side, if there is one.

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 07, 2012 11:33 AM (JJ+PT)

158 I'm still at

http://tinyurl.com/afdvkqq

That did not just happen.

And you can take the Blame Bush maximalism put it on your head and shove it up Pat Buchanan's ass. Anybody still too stupid to understand fight them over there isn't worth talking too.

Posted by: DaveA at November 07, 2012 11:33 AM (MOWP1)

159 @160 Yes, that.

Posted by: JDTAY at November 07, 2012 11:33 AM (a0nis)

160 Some of the horde has been blaming evangelicals not turning out in prior threads, but could demographic addition of Latinos, plus the huge loss of their vote, explain the entire difference?

Posted by: The Q at November 07, 2012 03:30 PM (w4fEE)

It is not the evangelicals and it is not the Latinos. It is OH, FL, and VA. FL was Latinos maybe but the election was already over before FL crashed.

We must wait for comprehensive exit polls to figure out who sat at home. Obama lost 10M voters, Romney lost 2M so the electorate was turned off by both.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 11:33 AM (YdQQY)

161 115. Agreed. McSally takes the Tucson Giffords seat in a upset.

       We finally knocked out Blue Fraud Chandler in KY, he was a rising star
       Rothfus took out Murtha boy Critz in Penn
       Lib Hochul in NY
       Latham took out Boswell in Iowa

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:33 AM (ZhjCA)

162

Well, I do think it's important to have a Congressional leader, the House Speaker and the Senate Minority Leader who are articulate and passionate when they speak. It's tough because you need skills behind the scenes and skills in front of the camera and people don't often have both skills.

Neither Boehner nor Mitch McConnell will ever win over people who see them speaking on the nightly news.

So, get difference spokespersons for the cameras. Upbeat, attractive, articulate people for the camera and then let those two bang away a meme over and over and over: this guy won't work with us, never has, no matter what he says to the camera. The minute the lights go off, he disappears on us.

Hatred of Congress goes up when the POTUS is successful in painting them as do-nothing. Neither Boehner now Mitch nor, for that matter Romney/Ryan EVER EVER EVER spoke of how Obama was cut off in that Oval Office with VJ and his inner circle and how he REFUSED to even talk to them.

Reminding Americans at every turn of this POTUS' 'management style," actually educating them about how he operated for 4 years was something the GOP and Romney never, ever did. I really like Romney, and he did many things right, but if he and his troops were insistent on not making personal attacks on Barry by initially calling him a good guy (still think that was a mistake, one that they realized too late), they still could have bashed, and bashed, and bashed him on his insularity:

"HE lives on an island inside that White House," should have been a slogan repeated over and over and over. In other words, Obama's attacks on Congress could have and should have been front and center for 4 years. The GOP needs to learn that even if an initial message is greeted negatively at first, when it's repeated over and over and over, and when surrogates like governors take it up and never stop, it finally does sink in to the electorate:

"When the cameras go off, this President, unlike all others before him, and for reasons we can only guess, shuts us off and has from day 1. He seems to think there's only ONE branch of government and that your representative from your state and your town ought to just close up shop and go home."

As an example of how even a stupid and unattractive person can gain votes and brand the other side negatively and her own positively by repeating and repeating and repeating: I give you Debbie Wassermann-Shultz.

Seriously, the GOP doesn't needs first a really good psychologist who can explain human nature to them and then they need to read only a bit of Aristotle and his words on ethos, pathos, logos and means of argumentation (you only need Aristotle, not Ayers). Do that and they can improve their brand.

All that said, Mia Love was not a member of Congress and that's not why she lost. She's new and he wasn't. She will be elected one day.

Alan West, love him though I might, had a district redrawn on him, one that had libs.

Posted by: gayle at November 07, 2012 11:33 AM (wgmUB)

163 This is a sad day for the democrat party. In all the joy to claim victory the ultimate outcome will be to destroy the democrat party. In two years the senate will be lost for a generation and the republicans will be a veto proof majority. More republican governors and state house's will be elected. All that will be left of the party will be liberials and labor unions. Obamas success will be his undoing. The president can not change. He will become more radical. The american people gave him a second chance and expect results. The problem this time around is that Santa is broke and that he and the democrat party will be held accountable.

Posted by: jhaley at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (Nhkx3)

164 Look at yer U.S. economic history: every recession gets followed by a boom ... and this boom is there. It's making low deep tuba sounds underground, but it's building.

Strange, sounds more like a dead cat bouncing...

Posted by: Armando at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (5iuEW)

165 you guys are going on and on about the incoming brown invasion (and that's what you mean, what the MSM means, that the GOP is too white for the new, browner America) Obama may not break 61M in final vote totals. J.fuckingKerry had 59M in 2004 against W's 62M. These numbers do not add up. people stayed home. you got to hand it to the left, they stack people like cordwood in tenements because they're easier to roundup and bus to the polls.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (QxSug)

166 >>>but very little about

Then you aren't reading very many of the comments. There has been a number of constructive "where do we go from here's" and more than a few questions about our platform and philosophy that you are eager to ignore.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (0q2P7)

167 Mia Love wasn't in congress and is in Utah, just weird.

I still say the statistical oddity of this election really is something to behold.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (PHb2k)

168 too much contempt for anyone u dont agree with .....people do not like hatred contempt arrogance..u guys nees to b more civil

Posted by: walter at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (MWl/u)

169 "2 things that really hurt the GOP in Congress: ... Allowing themselves to get punked by the minority Democrats with that whole Sandra Fluke thing."

The Democrats stuck Fluke up in front of the cameras.

I gritted my teeth and muttered, "Bait. Deliberate gambit. Don't take it. Don't respond. This is an ECONOMY election. Stay on target. Stay on target. Avoid distractions. Ignore anything other than the economy."

The socon crowd bit down on that obvious bait. Hook, line and sinker.

I read shortly thereafter about Rush Limbaugh having called Fluke "a slut" on his show, and it felt like being punched in the face. From there on out, she was Big Time Media right through the conventions and the polls opening. Instead of remaining an ignored nobody.

I don't give a damn about Fluke or who she fucks. She could do an entire football squad on live TV. I don't give a damn. I did give a damn about allowing the Dems to get a wedge issue going with in an election year when the ECONOMY was the winning issue.

How hard was it to tamp down the distractions and focus on what exit polls said was the voters' absolutely overwhelming #1 concern, the ECONOMY?

The Democratic message to low-information young female voters was, "Mitt Romney wants to control your uterus."

The GOP actively aided and abetted that message across the board. Ceded the issue.

Romney needed to say with some force that he was going to need to spend every penny of political capital ON THE ECONOMY, and that he was not going to make any major changes regarding reproductive rights.

And he needed to say to the young fem low-info voters, "Look at your counterparts in Greece. You talk about losing control of your body? They've lost control of their entire futures."

Posted by: torquewrench at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (ymG7s)

170 "We are now suffering from Vietnam Syndrome-- a national aversion to war." Vietnam wasn't a war. Korea wasn't a war. Iraq weren't wars. I'm sick and tired of having to finance, in blood and treasure, undeclared wars. If Republicans want to put troops somewhere, then declare war and find a way to finance it. Note: if you cannot find the resources to get Congress to declare war and to pay for it, you don't send in the troops.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (dZ756)

171

#114: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 03:30 PM (jUytm)

Chalk me up as not engaging in a circular firing squad.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - counting the days at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (hLRSq)

172 53 House Republicans demand answers on Benghazi, can Obama hide from these murders now that he has been reelected? IBD wrote editorial about five stories that will demand answers if reelected. TFG better tell the truth. Stock market is way down, due TFG winning. Wait until we get our first paycheck in January, if you think we have no money now, wait. Debt ceiling press conference by Boehner about now, why did he wait? He should have had this a month ago, it might have educated a few of the morons in the US. I do not mean to insult our fellow morons and moronettes here, I mean the morons that have no business voting for elections since they have no clue about issues, excel free stuff! West was a a bad one to lose, it was gerrymandering his district. A habit of redistricting to punish popular republicans. At least most of you aren't from MA, now we are back to being national laughing stocks. Here they voted for Warren over Brown, a Kennedy bought the congressional seat that was once Barney Frank's and the one change we had to pick up a republican was lost to incumbent whose wife is guilty of laundering millions of $ for her brother. All is back to hell in MA.

Posted by: CarolT at November 07, 2012 11:35 AM (z4WKX)

173 So...how long before people start getting a grip?

Posted by: Mikey NTH - counting the days at November 07, 2012 11:35 AM (hLRSq)

174 We should bug out of Afghanistan, the place is a shit-hole not worthy of the loss of 1 more American.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 07, 2012 11:35 AM (4cRnj)

175 It makes me wonder where Obama got his 69M votes from in 2008? hmmm....

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:35 AM (QxSug)

176 Why are we praying for the supreme court to stay healthy when John Roberts gave us the whole load in the backside on Obamacare? We have lost the supreme court no matter who is President.

Posted by: Mac Gootbone at November 07, 2012 11:35 AM (XCSw/)

177 The last great Generation before Reagan, was the WW2 vets. They have mostly passed, and were are stuck with their baby boomer hippie kids

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:35 AM (ZhjCA)

178 I'm burned out. Going dark for awhile.

I've taken a couple sabbaticals myself Joe. It's good to get away once in a while.

Posted by: eleven at November 07, 2012 11:35 AM (KXm42)

179 With this asshole in power, the only places I see us bombing are Israel ... and maybe Texas.

Posted by: Honey Badger at November 07, 2012 11:36 AM (GvYeG)

180 The left couldn't let black conservatives win, it kills the meme. They were Sorosed.

Posted by: madamex at November 07, 2012 11:36 AM (+kvQd)

181 At least crazy eyes got re-elected in a squeaker. All you need to know about why us conservatives lose...

Posted by: M. Murcek at November 07, 2012 11:36 AM (GJUgF)

182 172 too much contempt for anyone u dont agree with .....people do not like hatred contempt arrogance..u guys nees to b more civil Posted by: walter

Thank god your guy was re-elected on a positive, uplifting platform.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at November 07, 2012 11:36 AM (Q0B9b)

183 HERE IS THE SOLUTION:

The Republican Party must become the party of pragmatic ideas that work. Conservatism must be presented not as some metaphysical ideology blessed by God, but an idea that just works.

People are tired of this, "I'm right because God said so," business.

HERE'S AN EXAMPLE:
Gay Marriage - Most Republicans oppose gay marriage because the gays are trying to co-op the heterosexuals brand - i.e., the word Marriage. If gays had all the rights of a married couple yet they called it something else, I doubt a majority of Republicans would object.

"Marriage" has belonged to heteros for thousands of years and has deep religious significance. Gays can't just come along and annex it. So give them all the rights and responsibilities of marriage, just call it something else.

Let the Republican Party become the party of pragmatic competence. Instead of vague nothing burgers that no one can relate to, offer specific policies and plans on how to get from here to where we want to be.

Romney's greatest failing was his vagueness. He just sounded like another politician offering a chicken in every pot.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 11:36 AM (hlUJY)

184 Ace based on your electoral college prediction your opinion is pretty much worthless at this point

Posted by: John at November 07, 2012 11:36 AM (HL0e9)

185 John Roberts sucks. The Court is Gone. Obama has something on him.

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:36 AM (ZhjCA)

186 [i\Did he get to vote or was his ballot "lost or delayed" like so many others?

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 03:31 PM (bxiXv [/i]

After I went off on the registration Obamabots, they "discovered" they'd sent his ballot to the wrong e-mail address. I managed to get information to him to print out his ballot at the last minute, and he sent it via express mail to arrive here by Friday.

He's furious that his vote won't even be counted.

Also, in A-Stan he described having a Taliban in his rifle sights and being told not to fire unless he was fired on first. Hearts and minds and all.

No words.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 11:37 AM (UOM48)

187 >>>I am not buying what Drew is selling. I was wrong about Romney, and I was wrong about the electorate. And that's the shitty reality staring us in the face. I like Romney as a man. I think he was a good candidate. Not great, but good. But he lost. I think he had some baggage. As I said in the earlier thread, he made mistakes, he was Mormon (something I think hurt him badly, I'm ashamed, as an American, to say), he was a Richy Rich, he only began becoming fluent with the language of conservatism near the end of his campaign. The 47% thing is emblematic of the last thing. Real conservatives don't talk that way. Real conservatives know that freedom is the route to prosperity. I think he was the best of our possible candidates. Unfortunately, when we needed our Top Men, we got a field of the weird and the unqualified and the narrowly-appealing. I thought Mitt had flaws; that's why I resisted him, and searched for any other viable alternative. We never found one. He's a good guy and I'll think of him fondly. But he was far from the perfect candidate. And yeah, I think that mormon thing hurt him. There are some downscale voters who ONLY vote Republican because of tribal identification/social issues. Well, Romney didn't provide them with that. So I think many such voters stayed home.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 11:37 AM (LCRYB)

188 If we could do it in two years and then get out, that's one thing. That is potentially doable. (I don't know if it would be advisable; but it would be politically achievable.) But we're obviously not looking at a two-years-and-gone situation. We're looking at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years, and the public simply loves their sons more than they like the idea of transforming Afghanistan into a pluralistic democracy. I don't think they think that's even possible, for one thing. I can't say I disagree with them. _________________ The media will not let you go-- Dresden.

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 11:37 AM (r2PLg)

189 In Florida it wasn't just "vote for mitt", there were other things on the ballot, too - things that might have made Mitt harder to swallow for the squishy center: state amendments against obamacare, outlawing public funds from being used for abortions, props on religious freedom, props on limiting state revenues. There must have been a weary factor too; how else do you explain DWS winning by a clear margin? I can't explain that one at all. Completely out of my echo chamber. On top of that, most of the kids that work for me were really RELIEVED. They were honestly afraid that Mitt might win, and they couldn't articulate why. It was all defenses against vague Christian Fundamentalist fears when I tried to coax it out of them. They're scared of this that or the other thing, and think that only government can save them. It's depressing.

Posted by: Lauderdale Vet at November 07, 2012 11:37 AM (TvWSF)

190 Posted by: John at November 07, 2012 03:36 PM (HL0e9) And you're a cocksucker.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:37 AM (jUytm)

191 69 The way forward is through the states... a win-win deal for every state is a constitutional amendment eliminating the 16th and all direct taxation of the people by the Feds. Instead, the STATES collect all revenue and fund the Feds directly... Posted by: scofflawx I am interested in this idea but not sure why it would be so different.

Posted by: macintx at November 07, 2012 11:37 AM (/p4zq)

192 For the ladies who voted with their vaginas.. I sure hope those things know how to write a check, too!

Posted by: not the mama at November 07, 2012 11:37 AM (kzCIn)

193

Ace - I'm thinking we need a back to basics strategy. I still like the 3-legged stool, but each stool has had mission creep such that no stool is really strong now.

The social side started worrying about pornography and ventured out into the rape world.

The strong national defense side became nation-builders.

The fiscal conservative side became the compassionate conservatives and were so focused on lowering taxes that now the middle class doesn't feel like they need to pay.

All three stools need to streamline themselves and focus on their core principles that can potentially appeal to the other group.

Social - what is most important? For me it is defense of life, but make the exception for rape/incest. I want to belong to a party that values life.

Defense - the Reagan model. Peace through strength. No more nation-building.

Fiscal - limited, decentralized government. Push things to the house. Let's focus not just on cutting spending, but giving states the power to determine how to spend the federal government's largess.

Each side blames the other two, I think partly because each side has abandoned its core principle focus.

Posted by: SH at November 07, 2012 11:37 AM (gmeXX)

194 yeah, so Israel gets nuked. Maybe an american city too. oh wait, Iran doesn't have missiles...so there's no threat.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:38 AM (QxSug)

195 Still hearing lots of anger and lots of excuses (children), but very little about questioning your premises or even about changing your political strategy and tactics (adults).

Well holy fuckballs, why didn't you say so???

That's fucking GENIUS!!!

If only anybody had thought about this newfangled "strategy" and "tactics" you have forced us to consider, we'd be all jumping for joy!

Why, I just can't believe that nobody had previously considered "strategy" and "tactics" before! Kudos to you, political oracle! We're saved!

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 07, 2012 11:38 AM (SY2Kh)

196 188 Ace based on your electoral college prediction your opinion is pretty much worthless at this point

Really? Did I miss all of the reputable stories of Obama cleaning Romney's clock in the EC? No one expected that. No. One.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at November 07, 2012 11:38 AM (Q0B9b)

197

Guys, click on the link from riehlworldview.com about Allen West; he is not beaten and he's not conceding. We've got a bright spot with this.

He just set up litigation for a recount in his district. The gerrymandering may have worked initially, but it may prove to kill itself if the recount is done correctly.

Posted by: ICBMMan at November 07, 2012 11:38 AM (DH4ET)

198

I'm not ruling out massive fraud. I know, I sound like a 2004 Democrat. Thats why they make those accusations, so you'll feel stupid throwing it back at them. Classic Alinsky.

You know, I wouldn't even bring it up if it wasn't a standard tactic of theirs.

Posted by: the lone lemon at November 07, 2012 11:38 AM (xXhWA)

199 We do not have one House seat in New England. Collins, Ayotte, and LePage are all we have left

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:38 AM (ZhjCA)

200 I've said this before and I'll say it again...without 8 years of George W Bush and his nation-building and spending money out the wazoo the conditions under which a President Barack Obama could have come into being would never have existed (or at least would have been a lot farther down the road). Between W and the Republicans in Congress, the GOP has pretty much lost its reputation for fiscal sanity, and became the "nation-building party" which used to be the Dem position on foreign policy in case anyone has forgotten. (shrug) W is another in a long line of "a good human being who had no business ever being president". There are some days I despise him and his big government smiley face fascism almost as much as I do Barky since I don't think we'd have gotten Barky without W coming first.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 07, 2012 11:39 AM (qEkGZ)

201 "People are tired of this, "I'm right because God said so," business." Except minorities, who are the reason Barry won and the source of our demographic problems.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 11:39 AM (Hw3Gh)

202 Update: Rove thinks specific polling from specific Virginia precincts show good trend for Romney. Actually, Rove now also thinks Romney will win Florida (early vote now counted, rest of the sailing should be smooth) and pointed to bad turnout in Cuyhoga, and strong turnout in the neighboring Republican counties, to suggest Ohio's looking good for Romney. Comedy gold

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 11:39 AM (EX+sq)

203 Because from where I sit both those look pretty damn implausible given the loss we just ate.

What makes you think the new written Constitution won't enshrine the right to Free Shit, a race-based caste system, assorted Euro-socialist crap including a state religion (Gaiaism or Fascism, take your pick, why not both?) and turn the states into mere administrative units of the federal whole?

There's nothing wrong with our current Constitution except we don't follow it. And Amendments 16 and 17.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 11:39 AM (/kI1Q)

204 I'm trying to resist thinking Romney's religion hurt him, just like I try to resist thinking race has a large enough impact on elections that we should talk about the bigotry of the electorate. But so many people are floating the idea, maybe I'm just too positive and shiny-happy and should consider it.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 11:39 AM (moRRg)

205 167 Posted by: jhaley at November 07, 2012 03:34 PM (Nhkx3) Jeez, some failure. You don't realize that losing elections, even for a period of time is irrelevant to the statists. Their aim is to increase the size of the bureaucracy, which in turn reduces our personal freedoms, regardless of what party is in power. Unless you can convince me that in 2014 and 2016 we will win massively AND have people in government who sill dismantle at least 33% of the federal government, then forget it.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 07, 2012 11:39 AM (vCK/R)

206 Yahoo headline:

Stock market plunges: Is Obama to blame?
The Dow plummets nearly 300 points following the election, but it's not exactly clear why.

Clearly it's Bush's fault

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 11:39 AM (1Jaio)

207 And as a follow up. We need to stop messaging things based on God. You don't need to invoke God or church to defend pro-life or anti-gay marriage. We lose people immediately by doing so.

Posted by: SH at November 07, 2012 11:39 AM (gmeXX)

208 Look at yer U.S. economic history: every recession gets followed by a boom ... and this boom is there. It's making low deep tuba sounds underground, but it's building. Those sounds you hear are the girders giving way. If you look at yer U.S. economic history, the recession that looked like this one didn't get a boom for about twenty years, after which all of Europe was destroyed

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (FcR7P)

209 I blame undying vestiges of Puritanism, centered in the Northeast and Massachusetts particularly. (I am straining to think of a single good thing that has ever-- EVER-- come out of Massachusetts outside Marblehead since the Battle of Concord. (Fuck Thoreau.) Several teraflops later... nope.)
Imagine you were a martial artist, do you sit around wondering whether to sweep the leg? Hint: if you do, you'll soon be hors de combat. Do you muse "Did I deserve that last sharp blow? Was it something I did?"
At our next match, we'll need bayonets. Bayonets, and horses. Four stout horses and four stout ropes.
Before we die, we must pay for their Obama Plasma Screens. NOT.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (1V6Pv)

210 I think this calls for some stress releaving posts involving boobies and/or cats. The ONT had better be full of 'em.

Posted by: The Political Hat at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (XvHmy)

211

Romney ran a good campaign.

Obama is a liar.

The MSM covered for Obama and constantly ambushed Romney.

The American people are selfish and willfully stupid.

We, the Moron Nation, are survivors.

End of line.

Posted by: katya the designated driver at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (DoZD+)

212 Now, let's get real, there are to many mathematical coincidences to not believe voter fraud took place. As was pointed out last night, we went zip on all of the toss-up senate races. Even assuming we only had a 20% chance to win each race (out of say, 7 races total) to lose ALL of them is nearly statistically impossible. It just is.

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (arczc)

213 172 too much contempt for anyone u dont agree with .....people do not like hatred contempt arrogance..u guys nees to b more civil

Posted by: walter at November 07, 2012 03:34 PM (MWl/u)

Did you actually type that with a straight face? That's some funny shit right there.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (UOM48)

214 "I don't know. I was harping on the Rape Abortion thing in the comments last night, and a commenter wisely noted: "Fiscal conservatism also proved to be not so popular, too.""
--------

Like all economic questions fiscal conservatism is not popular compared to what exactly? The idea that we can continue the status quo and plod along and Social Security will always be there and trillion dollars deficits don't matter... that is the opposite of that idea

Well, disabuse the country of that notion. Republicans do the equivalent of throwing a guy a life preserver that just got his leg bitten off by a great white. We keep plodding along on a unsustainable path. Let the nation feel what driving wealth producers overseas will feel like. Obama comes to the table on the fiscal cliff and give him everything he wants in return for public pensions being subject to the same rules that private ones are as far as accounting goes. Repeal the Hollywood tax cuts. And adjust pay stubs to reveal all costs associated with employment i.e. total paid for healthcare by the company not just your 50 bucks. Then let Obama explain the recession... Start 2016 in January 2013. When 1st and second quarter GDP numbers come in. "We gave the president what he wanted, where are the results? Oh wait I think George Bush is still running the economy...

Posted by: theworldisnotenough at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (7maJr)

215 Now at long last Romney can go the fuck home and leave us in peace and the Romneybots can find a new RINO to pimp. Stick a fork in him as you pass the coffin.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (6H6FZ)

216 recovery is NOT inevitable. raise taxes add bucket loads of new ever changing regulations and a stagnating economy slides back into recession.

Posted by: we are so screwed at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (HEa5q)

217 Guess that "Free State" project in New Hampshire didn't work out that well...

Posted by: The Political Hat at November 07, 2012 11:40 AM (XvHmy)

218

It doens't make sense. So - fraud perhaps? Afterall the democrats go to great lengths to keep black conservatives from getting ahead.

Posted by: Fresh at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (O7ksG)

219 I like Romney as a man. I think he was a good candidate. Not great, but good.

But he lost.

Yep. I wasn't an early Mitt supporter but I thought his campaign was handled with great skill overall. That he did as well as he did against the overt media bias and the impact of $100M in negative ads is worthy of respect.

I honestly can't think of anyone on the right who would have done better. This is what really says we're fucked.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (QKKT0)

220 "211 And as a follow up. We need to stop messaging things based on God. You don't need to invoke God or church to defend pro-life or anti-gay marriage. We lose people immediately by doing so." OR... Minorities are more religious than whites, and God is a good wedge issue to use against Dems.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (Hw3Gh)

221 >>>There are going to be Long Knives. Samwise and Jimi Ray are demanding apologies from you, Ace. They claimed you LIED!!!1!!!! So, please, pull out the long knives and carve them up real good. There fucking egos are ruining every late night/over night thread. They're vampires. Stake 'em.

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (C4dFv)

222 **We never found one. ** that's because they're immediately cut down in youth. We don't defend our own. Again, if we had a turnout between McCain and Bush the Winner, we'd all be Winston Wolfing right now. All this other bullshit, vaginas and the new black, hip America, isn't born out by the numbers. If Obama got 70M votes to 55M, then yeah, we're out of touch, need to start killing babies and whatever. It's 57M 60M, barely beating J. Kerrry.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (QxSug)

223 It is quite possible that Romney and the RNC knew he would lose a long time ago. My gut tells me, the GOP was hell bent on keeping the House, and thinking the Supreme Court would toss the mandate.

A very bad year for Conservatives politically

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (ZhjCA)

224 Keep in mind that the "social issue" this election was started by the push for somebody else to pay for birth control. Yes, yes, Akin, but it had its roots in gimme.

Social liberalism always comes with a pricetag.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (T0NGe)

225 The question is not, "Why did Obama's base vote for him?", that was to be expected. The question is, "Where the hell were the Republicans and Republican-leaning Independents?"

If in fact, there was not major hackery and fraud going on to not count Republican votes, who were the Republicans and Independents who chose to sit this one out and why?

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (hlUJY)

226 I don't think this was a foreign policy election -- the war-weariness is there but it wasn't the major problem for the GOP. The major problem is that slowly but surely, government has made dependents out of a critical mass of the electorate, who now know no other way of life but to depend on government. They voted for their economic interests. They have demographics on their side. There is no longer any GOP majority. Game over for conservatism.

Posted by: joncelli at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (RD7QR)

227 @211 The Devil claims people every day. That's between the Devil and the dead soul.
Btw, did you know that if you're nice to Ahmet and his bad teeth, he won't take over your Cub Scout Pack?

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (1V6Pv)

228 Ace said, "most people with less money want those with more money to pay more to give them free stuff, and it's long been that way, and it will almost certainly continue being that way."

The Constitution was supposed to prevent that sort of thievery, whereby lazy thugs have no need actually to go to the trouble of holding up their fellow citizens, but instead get the government to do it for them and "re-distribute" the victim's wealth to them.

Posted by: Buddha at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (8NlUk)

229 I think this is all recrimination is missing the point: the rules of the game are being written by Dems.

Why? Simple. They control the media.

That's why Bush's military policy became unpopular despite its success relative to historic norms. It's why Bush was blamed for Katrina while Obama basks in the glow of the Sandy response despite its many ongoing fuckups.

It's why Nixon had to resign over Watergate but most people barely know what Benghazi is.

It's why nakedly racist appeals to minorities are considered moral, while similar appeals to whites are unthinkable, with the result that minorities vote heavily Dem (and don't think you can buy Latinos with amnesty, the real fault line is productivity and nothing will ever fix it).

Frankly, at this point I think the country is doomed to ever more of the socialist decay that has been inexorably increasing ever since Coolidge declined a second term. 2010 bought us a little time, nothing more. Pretty soon our crushing debt is going to be used to excuse massive tax hikes, what little innovation remains will chiefly come at the expense of labor, the best jobs will all be in gov't, and fewer and fewer people are going to bother to work at all. The only bright spots will be that you're pretty much free to marry whom and smoke what you like.

Posted by: TallDave at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (/s1LA)

230 but, this needs to be reiterated: we got killed in the senate races. killed. 3 words: we got killed in the senate races.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:41 AM (QxSug)

231 219 Now at long last Romney can go the fuck home and leave us in peace and the Romneybots can find a new RINO to pimp. Stick a fork in him as you pass the coffin.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 07, 2012 03:40 PM (6H6FZ)

Isn't it Christie's turn now? Or Pawlenty? /snort

Posted by: not the mama at November 07, 2012 11:42 AM (kzCIn)

232 Ace, you pointed out early that Obama had a strategy of depressing the vote by running an extremely negative campaign, and it worked. Independents didn't show up, Obama's base did.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 07, 2012 11:42 AM (4cRnj)

233

How about a list of movies made up of pure escapism and feel goody nonsense fun?

1. The Fifth Element (which I'm watching right now and don't care what anybody else thinks)

Posted by: katya the designated driver at November 07, 2012 11:42 AM (DoZD+)

234 Texas is mostly a bright spot in this horror, but even so, my friend Quico Canseco lost TX 23. He's contesting it though, since there are allegations of massive fraud. South TX Dems have a long and storied history of voter fraud. The oldtimers brag about it.

Posted by: stace at November 07, 2012 11:42 AM (m+UHL)

235 >>>I honestly can't think of anyone on the right who would have done better. This is what really says we're fucked. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) I agree with you whole heartedly up until yo say we are fucked. We are not fucked. Power swings from one party to the other. We will be back in 2016.

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 11:42 AM (C4dFv)

236 Jeez, some failure. You don't realize that losing elections, even for a period of time is irrelevant to the statists. Their aim is to increase the size of the bureaucracy, which in turn reduces our personal freedoms, regardless of what party is in power.

Unless you can convince me that in 2014 and 2016 we will win massively AND have people in government who sill dismantle at least 33% of the federal government, then forget it.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 07, 2012 03:39 PM (vCK/R)

Statists in BOTH parties. Both have plenty of them.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 07, 2012 11:42 AM (qEkGZ)

237 Instapundit: MEANWHILE, IN TENNESSEE: Â“Republicans gained six seats each in the state House and Senate Tuesday, giving the party more than the Â“super majorityÂ” they sought in both chambers, according to complete but unofficial election returns. By controlling two-thirds of the seats in both chambers for the first time since the Reconstruction era, Republicans will have a quorum and could continue in session even if all Democrats walk out. The two-thirds Â‘super majorityÂ’ also allows united Republicans to suspend normal rules and instantly pass legislation.Â” Nothing like this has happened since Reconstruction ended. I'm in Tennessee. We have Voter I.D. already. Funny how that works.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at November 07, 2012 11:42 AM (ZY+lZ)

238 I don't know how many times this needs to be said: Obama did not have any more (or at least not significantly more) votes yesterday than he did in 2008. What failed was Republican turnout.

Why did Republican turnout fail?

Based on all the polls, based on both Rasmussen (who is Republican-ish) and Gallup (who is not) Republicans should have outnumbered Democrats yesterday, but we didn't. Why not? Were both Ras and Gallup completely wrong? Was 2010 just a "blip?"

WTF?

I can only draw one thing out of it- for some reason I cannot understand, Republicans have given up. Maybe it's because they're fed up with Weeping Boehner and Bitch McConnel. Maybe it's because they didn't want to vote for the God-Father of RomneyCare, which was the basis for ObamaCare. Maybe they already decided just to let the whole thing burn.

What I do know is it's too late. By the time anyone who will do something about ObamaCare can do anything about ObamaCare, it will have been in force for (minimum) 2 years, and it will enter the same realm as Social Security and Medicare- it will be sacrosanct, and any discussion of "reform" let alone repeal will be a death knell for a politician.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (/eBe8)

239 I'm really surprised at Mia Love's loss. She was up 13 points in the polls ahead of her democrat opponent, for an open seat. In Utah, where one might expect a fairly healthy turnout for Romney anyway, (and he did take the state).

There's a lot about this election that will continue to puzzle me for a long, long while.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (L7hol)

240 125 2 I would just like to start simply. Say, with a cob-logger who doesn't detest the readers of this site. Posted by: Empire of Jeff I assumed you were talking about Gabe. If so, I agree. Posted by: Wyatt Earp at November 07, 2012 03:29 PM (Q0B9b) No. Actually, I don't have a problem with Gabe. With Gabe, my problem is what he says, sometimes. And vice versa, I suspect. Incidentally, that's also the problem I have with Ace, occasionally. We all tend to disagree on mostly social issues. No big deal. My problem with Drew isn't what he says, it's who he is. And who he is. Everybody thinks they're smarter than those they disagree with on a certain topic. And Ace (and Gabe, IMO) get that across, but are not condescending about it. Mostly. Drew, on the other hand, is dripping with disdain for the readers of this site. It's pretty in-your-face. I don't expect anyone to change their lineup according to my wishes, but I hope my support of this site at least gets me heard.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (ZrUUM)

241 You people still don't understand...

Everyone knows that shit is fucked up and that the wheels are coming off the carriage... but the vast majority of people in this country are too scared to face reality, and Republicans are the designated scapegoat for EVERYTHING, no matter what they do or don't do, simply because its easier to blame someone else for the mess your in then it is to take responsibility for fixing it.

It's called Cognitive Dissonance. People simply will not admit they were mistaken about Obama, because to do so would call into question the very foundational pillars upon which their cotton-candy world-view depends.

As the descent begins to accelerate, the need for someone else to blame will only get worse, and blame will turn into outright persecution. It happened to the Jews, and now will happen to us.

Let the 2 Minute Hates begin...

Posted by: Joshua at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (o4CbT)

242 Choices:

A. Abandon principles and pander
B. Keep riding the moderate horse
C. Get better at "messaging" our principles
D. Hasten the collapse

Only D is now viable. "C" was viable in the days of "Rendezvous with Destiny." More than 50% no longer understand/appreciate the concepts.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (zpqa2)

243 Heres the only thing I can think of. I think the warnings people have been giving republicans that they are going to leave if they don't start getting a backbone finally happened. They just said f it.

It will erode further if the House compromises on the sequest or the bush tax cuts, but I have no doubt they believe the opposite.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (PHb2k)

244

Maybe we can cajole Brian Dennehy into running next year.

Posted by: Concern Troll at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (4KOF2)

245 The Obama camp pushed the "Romney wants to start another war" pretty hard the past few weeks. The pushback seemed minimal from the Romney camp. We forget how awful it was in Iraq just a few years ago. Americans being dragged through the streets, bombings. I voted for Bush in 2004, but was horrified by the carnage in Iraq (and other things too). We just meandered with no purpose.

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (opS9C)

246 I think the best strategy going forward is to just let all the tax cuts expire. Put more people back on the tax rolls. Take the lumps that will come when Obama and the Media blame the GOP congress for raising taxes by holding the upper class tax cuts hostage. We have been so successful at tax cuts that now too many people don't pay. So let's put everyone back in the game.

Posted by: SH at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (gmeXX)

247 Romney is a very good man who saved the House, a consolation prize, but better than Speaker Pelosi. We did not lose one Incumbent in Penn, Ohio, Mich, or WI. That is due to Romney.

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:43 AM (ZhjCA)

248 I know this is off topic, but I've been sitting on this for a couple months now. I wrote a parody of Beck's "MTV Makes Me Want to Smoke Crack". Given everyone's mood, I think it's pretty appropriate.

The melody is here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ-orW3ZJ1k

Obama makes me want to smoke crack.
Bottom fell out of the economy and it's never comin' back.
Obama makes me want to get high.
Can't get a job no matter how I try.

And everything's perfect
And everything's bright
And everyone's perky
And everything else's Bush's fault

I love his speeches
I watch 'em all day.

[music stops]

Recording Engineer: What's the problem?
Me: I dunno, just start the tape.

[swing music]

Hey... alright...Obama, whoa, makes me want to smoke crack
Economy flew out the window and it's never coming back
Obama makes me want to get high as the debt
Borrow all we can get (ah get those printin' presses running!)
Everything's wonderful, can't get any finer
Everybody's swinging all across China, you know it!
Shit on our allies, kowtow to Iran
Increase spending, every woman and man
'Cause Obama, whoa, makes me want to smoke crack
Jobs flew out the window and they're never coming back
Oh...Obama makes me want to get high as my tax
Just can't relax. Take it!

[piano solo]

Ah yea, make it and he'll take it!
Right about now, steppin' into Trinity United
Ah yea, bailout that thing!

I work down at ACORN
Making some hopenchange
With a sparkle on my unicorn
And a smile on my face
Housing for illegals rising above
And Obamacare is better than love

Yea, Obama, whoa
Obama, check!
Obama makes me want to smoke crack!

Posted by: Armando at November 07, 2012 11:44 AM (5iuEW)

249 It's going to take at least another election cycle to get the Bush Stink off of us. Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 03:31 PM (qe2/V) It's not "Bush-stink," it's MFM-stink. He was unremarkable as a President in a remarkable time, but his demonization from the left and the MFM (BIRM) became a cultural legend. They did the same thing to Palin. If we don't get the MFM up to a minimum standard of honesty, nothing will change, we will just continue to slide downhill.

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 11:44 AM (bxiXv)

250 Today he is angry and broken hearted that his civilian "friends" and hipster cousins voted for four more years of a man the military loathes. I weep for my son and my country. Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 03:25 PM (UOM4 Yes, sorry Jane. This is killing me. We need to bring every last man and woman home. The danger is real. The scoamf doesn't care.

Posted by: the next day at November 07, 2012 11:44 AM (LpQbZ)

251 I always knew surfers were douchebags.

Posted by: eleven at November 07, 2012 11:44 AM (KXm42)

252 I think people just don't care about politics anymore, the people that do have something to gain and that's why they vote. Obama will be just below 61 million votes Romney around below 58 million . That is historically low, I'm not sure if that is a good sign or not.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 07, 2012 11:44 AM (NzBQO)

253 >>>And yeah, I think that mormon thing hurt him. There are some downscale voters who ONLY vote Republican because of tribal identification/social issues. Well, Romney didn't provide them with that. So I think many such voters stayed home.

We shouldn't have needed super candidate to win the election. We should have been able to run a mutant pizza with anchovies that eats kittens on camera and beat Obama.

Mittens was good, not great, but good. Good should have been more than enough. The fact that it wasn't is the harbinger of much deeper and more dire issues than flaws in Mittens' campaign.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 11:44 AM (0q2P7)

254 The senate hurts so bad. Failure to GOTV in blue states lead to this outcome. Failure to GOTV in swing states did this too. Remember, in 2004, Rove was using databases to call people who were datamined to think like a con even if they didn't self ID.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:44 AM (QxSug)

255 Romney ran a good campaign.

Obama is a liar.

The MSM covered for Obama and constantly ambushed Romney.

The American people are selfish and willfully stupid.

We, the Moron Nation, are survivors.

End of line. Posted by: katya the designated driver at November 07, 2012 03:40 PM

1000 times this. No more no less.

Oh, and add the constant stream of 3rd world scumbag immigrants from the world's 3rd world shitholes who are nothing..nothing like the immigrants who built this nation years ago. The new breed of immigrants are as worthless as the cesspools they leave to come here. The old breed came here to be free. The new breed comes for free stuff.

Posted by: Berserker at November 07, 2012 11:44 AM (FMbng)

256 "I am not a witch." "A uterus can get rid of a rape fetus." "Rape is a gift from god." Wonder why we lost?

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 11:44 AM (EX+sq)

257 "181 The last great Generation before Reagan, was the WW2 vets. They have mostly passed, and were are stuck with their baby boomer hippie kids"

Thats a great slap on the shoulder for those of my friends returning after ten years of war right now. I followed the Abu Muqawama blog since the almost start, and heard those soldiers dealing with their situation in almost realtime. Those kids who adapted in Iraq are a great generation of soldiers. They dont remember the Rumsfeld-experiment fondly, many of them.

Did you guys know that noone had planned for traffic-control in Baghdad, so a 29 year old kid was drummed up cause he had some basic training and put in charge of the trafficflow of one of the worlds biggest cities at one point? And he did well, according to the story. (Think its sourced by Tom Ricks.)

Posted by: Fnord at November 07, 2012 11:45 AM (hoJnS)

258 Ace, My point is that if we let people off easy when they play the only reason we lost is we didn't elect a "true conservative" (aka the guy I voted for) game, then we're not doing anything to help ourselves. In my view, it's pretty clear that none of the other candidates that took a shot at this would have done near as well, and I am not going to concede to a "I guess we'll never know" copout. Look at how the senators got slaughtered here. It's not because the top of the ticket was weak.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 07, 2012 11:45 AM (UvR6d)

259

I do exist, yet I don't live at the North Pole. I live in DC.

Posted by: Santa Claus at November 07, 2012 11:45 AM (F6KtL)

260 Hannity mentions debt limit possibly going to $19 trillion. I say give it to them. They won. Deficit reduction and balanced budgets were in the campaign. A majority of Americans said they didn't care. So fuck it. Give it to them.

Posted by: America Fuck Yeah! at November 07, 2012 11:45 AM (+iqDb)

261

169 -

It's relatively easy to imagine conservatives were a large chunk of the missing vote totals. Some of us at least considered it.

I noticed some gloating last night on some threads around here, names I haven't seen around since Romney more or less had the nomination sewn up.

We'll find out who they are, I suppose, but the answer is, O got almost 10 million fewer votes than '08, and Romney got almost 3 million fewer than McCain. How many of those 10 mil switched to R, and if any large number of them did, that makes it more like Romney got 10 mil fewer.

Why, because he wasn't as conservative as McCain? Because he was a worse campaigner? Because he's Mormon???

Why?

Posted by: Bubba at November 07, 2012 11:45 AM (TOk1P)

262 If you look at yer U.S. economic history, the recession that looked like this one didn't get a boom for about twenty years, after which all of Europe was destroyed

That was before all able-bodied Americans became wards of the state.

1/6 of the economy got nationalized in 2010; the Supreme Court ruled Congress could force you to purchase things from private companies if you choose to be alive but not in prison or Muslim, and people believed the government should facilitate building power plants and roads instead of shutting them down to Save Teh Planet.

We're not coming back.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 11:45 AM (/kI1Q)

263 We forget how awful it was in Iraq just a few years ago.

FDR just threatened to nationalize the press. See how easy life is when you're a statist?

Posted by: TallDave at November 07, 2012 11:45 AM (/s1LA)

264 Actually, there is a silver lining and we saw it in 2010. Obama doesn't give a shit about anybody but himself. In 2014 and 2016, he would be content to let the rest of the Democrats go to Hell. So there's that.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 07, 2012 11:46 AM (T0NGe)

265 Before we go, "let it all burn," let's try going massively negative and pugilistic. You know, like a political party. What do we have to lose?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 11:46 AM (Hw3Gh)

266 (R) fuck heads HAVE to make the moral arguments for freedom and free markets that Arthur Brooks is making now, Sowell is making now, that Friedman made in his day, etc. (R)s must win the emotional appeal because that will always be stronger than the intellectual one, I don't care how right the intellectual one is, you cannot go by that one alone. It's gotta be both.

Posted by: Texas Ranger at November 07, 2012 11:46 AM (IvvrO)

267

The media, at every turn, blame the R congress for everything. Even though the R congress can't get anyting through - they can only stop horrid democrat crap.

The media know this and are out to paint the R congress with an evil brush.

Posted by: Fresh at November 07, 2012 11:46 AM (O7ksG)

268 I believe it's very simple; in the arena of ideas, the opposite side has control of the mike, the amplifiers and the speakers.

Our message never gets through unchanged to the public. Our goals and reasons never get fully explained.

To the contrary they are counteracted by supposed neutral observers besides our opponents.

The message is twisted, ignored and/or derided on air giving it the appearance of extremism, craziness and just plain uncool. And last the message is shown on air to be expensive, unworkable or will cost others their rights or their benefits.

We've lost before the debate begins.

Posted by: Jcw46 at November 07, 2012 11:46 AM (SP4jC)

269 We all Obama's bitchez now! How U like it so far?

Posted by: Rev Al Sharptongue at November 07, 2012 11:46 AM (TQtmI)

270 The strong national defense side became nation-builders. _________________ That came from the Colin Powell side of the house... Mr. Quagmire of the Balkans.

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 11:46 AM (r2PLg)

271 ugh, in 2008, obama ran to mccains right. Now, he ran on Clinton's record.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (QxSug)

272 Santorum is a true conservative, right? He would have easily won last night.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (EX+sq)

273 We're still at war but the media makes it pretty peaceful and tolerable by never talking about it. The public seems to get "tired" of stuff depending on who is president. Spending, deficits, debt......... all huge runaway problems under Bush.

Funny how that works.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (S/ps/)

274 He's furious that his vote won't even be counted. Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 03:37 PM (UOM4 I am too. It wasn't an accident, Dems did it on purpose, across many states, to probably hundreds of thousands. It's a slow-motion coup and everyone's all "oh, it can't be that bad, let's back-burner it." The house is on fire and people are all like, "well, the laundry's almost done," or "my show's almost over, ask me again then."

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (bxiXv)

275 teachers and taxes. load em up.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (QxSug)

276 Last night I was asked what were going to do now? My response was get ready for depression or war. It seems to me that when people try to run away from something so hard it ends up smacking them right in the face. I say let it fall, the whole damn thing. As unappealing as it sounds people aren't in pain and until people are in pain and I mean real pain, hopping trains from town to town for work pain we will stay on the same track.

The quicker is implodes the fast we can rebuild and lay blame where it belongs. Screw em, the Dems truly own it and it is up to the Republicans to call them out every step of the way in the media. Every question a Republican faces their should be a paragraph intro to the answer stating the R's policies and blame the Dems for the economy. Go on record everywhere and repeat the same lines over and over again until it is engrained in the American brain.

But most of all stand by and watch. Don't do anything let them bury themselves. And when it happens go on an "I told you so tour".

Posted by: Poohrat at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (F2jy+)

277

191....I think he was the best of our possible candidates. Unfortunately, when we needed our Top Men, we got a field of the weird and the unqualified and the narrowly-appealing.

I thought Mitt had flaws; that's why I resisted him, and searched for any other viable alternative.

We never found one.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 03:37 PM (LCRYB)

----------------

Spot on, Ace.

We needed a candidate with Charisma.

Perry has it...but he blew it with all the flubbing, plus a lot of people were apparently turned off by his Texas accent.

What we needed was someone with a high level of personal Charisma...who was willing to fight dirty for dirty.

Mitt is a wonderful man, and would've made a great president.

Too many people couldn't relate to him, though.

And he wasn't charismatic enough to overcome that and win them over.

So they stayed home.

We need a conservative 'bad boy' who will yell and scream and get people fired up.

Campaigning with white kid gloves on, just doesn't work.

Also, in case no one has said it...

The way that the Republican Party dissed the Tea Party? ....Big mistake.

Posted by: wheatie at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (ICEh3)

278 There's a lot about this election that will continue to puzzle me for a long, long while. Me too.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (jUytm)

279 most people with less money want those with more money to pay more to give them free stuff, and it's long been that way, and it will almost certainly continue being that way.

A democracy will last until the majority figures out they can vote themselves free stuff with other people's money. They've figured it out.

We have been so successful at tax cuts that now too many people don't pay. So let's put everyone back in the game.

I'd be on board with paying higher taxes for awhile if that happened, just to remind people that free stuff isn't free. But of course, they'd just cut the taxes at the bottom end and leave then on me. I'm at a loss.

Posted by: pep at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (YXmuI)

280 "I'm in Tennessee. We have Voter I.D. already."

When the UN is shocked at how lax your election security is, things are bad.

Posted by: TallDave at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (/s1LA)

281 I say we go Albert J. Nock.

Read it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Jay_Nock

Build and nurture the Remnant.

Move to the Red States. Home school. Buy guns. Start churches, gun clubs, and small community colleges. Find a small town and blend in. Make friends. Convert friends and neighbors.

Do not associate with liberals - friends, family, employers, employees, etc.. NO ASSOCIATION WITH THESE PARASITES. If any Leftists move to your town - RUN THEM THE EFF OUT. Or if not, move and try again.

Not Galt's Gulch.

But little "Nocksvilles" across the plains and in the mountains.

Protect your children most of all. Your kids ARE the Remnant.

Yes, going Nock means giving up your job in the city, your pensions, your suburbs...You have to give up the GOP, blogging, Twitter.

But if you want an "EASY FIX" you are as deceptive and dishonest of the Leftists you claim to hate.

Once the Remnant gets big enough...maybe we can talk about nullification at state level, or secession. Yes, it's likely some Nocksvilles will be Ruby Ridged or Waco-ed. But if we build enough of them...and keep them small... the Remnant will survive.

But right now, we are not just losing our nation, but in danger of being CRUSHED and DESTROYED. This is about SURVIVAL ...

So save what we can. Start or move to a Nocksville.

Posted by: John Galt at November 07, 2012 11:47 AM (Bv9qa)

282 So fuck it. Give it to them.

Nope, this one I hold back on because the consequences are in the future. Make Obama pay now. No debt ceiling. Just none.

Just say no to raising the debt ceiling. What have we got to lose?

Posted by: AmishDude at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (T0NGe)

283 243. not only Mia, but Rehberg, and Rob Mckenna in Wash. Top Tiers that went down hard. We got killed here in IL. We lost 5 House seats due to the mafia Dem remap. Wiped out on state leg races also. We have become MASS, I goota get the F outta here

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (ZhjCA)

284 Really? Did I miss all of the reputable stories of Obama cleaning Romney's clock in the EC? No one expected that. No. One.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at November 07, 2012 03:38 PM (Q0B9b)

-----

** ahem **

Posted by: Nate Silver at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (yzX2R)

285 118 The public is not buying what we are selling. They want Socialism and free stuff and no matter how much history and conservatives tell them this is a bad idea it will not matter. Posted by: ntac at November 07, 2012 03:28 PM (rhHz3) ^ this. And, it sucks. But some of you need to Chill. The. Hell. Out. 4 years ago it was the same damn thing "go get your ammo" and "let's form our own country." Good God, no wonder nobody takes us seriously.

Posted by: Mrsp at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (tgRSU)

286 #220

Not only is recovery not inevitable, at this point I'd say its fairly unlikely.

We're about to face the greatest single tax increase in our nation's history, and we're about to witness nationalization of 1/6 of the economy in the form of Obamacare. On top of that, the current administration is energy hostile, and regulation friendly.

Each one of these things by itself is a significant economic drag. Add them up, and I just don't see how we're going to avoid another recession, in this case a prolonged one with permanently reset (ie "new normal") higher unemployment.

Which isn't to say that recovery is impossible, but deregulation is always tough, and de-nationalization of healthcare may simply not be possible.

Posted by: looking closely at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (6Q9g2)

287

Raise your hand if you think they're going to stop blaming Bush in the next four years.

If you raised your hand, raise your other hand if you think they're not going to pin any and all blame on Obstructionist RepublicansÂ™ in the next four years.

The MBM isn't as dead or as ineffective as we thought.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (uD2fR)

288 Our Republican congressman lost his bid for Senate thanks to the fucking Libertarian candidate.

Posted by: jeanne, in full escapist mode at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (GdalM)

289 Oh, and we're paying the price for 9/11. Period. No 9/11, no Bambi.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (S/ps/)

290 251 I think the best strategy going forward is to just let all the tax cuts expire. Put more people back on the tax rolls. Take the lumps that will come when Obama and the Media blame the GOP congress for raising taxes by holding the upper class tax cuts hostage. We have been so successful at tax cuts that now too many people don't pay. So let's put everyone back in the game.

Posted by: SH at November 07, 2012 03:43 PM (gmeXX)

This is exactly what we need to do. A lot of liberals I know kept saying "my taxes went down under Obama." I tried to tell them they're going right back up at the start of the year, and part of that tax decrease came right out of their beloved social security and medicare, but they don't care.

Posted by: not the mama at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (kzCIn)

291 Now that we all have or will have less money, who will pay for all the free stuff? If I've reduced my lifestyle to where I'm paying little to no taxes, who's going to pay for the ObamaPhones?

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 11:49 AM (C4dFv)

292 1. It's cool to vote for Obama. JayZ even had a party for him. Romney seems like my Dad. 2. Obama will give me stuff. Romney? Not so much. 3. Dem electoral fraud. 4. Republicans hate teh wimmenz and they'll make me carry a rapist's baby to full term!!!! 5. I'm a union member/public employee/green energy huckster and I'm voting my pocketbook. (See item #2.) 6. Obama is black, just like me. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 07, 2012 03:28 PM (QKKT0) yes, very superficial stuff. even though the economy was supposedly at issue never mind, they said, JayZ lets me say the "N" word on TV.

Posted by: the next day at November 07, 2012 11:49 AM (LpQbZ)

293

Along with the adoring press, lets not forget all the celebrities and that Clinton himself said any lie he could think of and dragged Obama across the finish line. Bottom line - democrats get away with lying and the masses of masses of stupid people buy it.

Posted by: Fresh at November 07, 2012 11:49 AM (O7ksG)

294 >>>The 47% thing is emblematic of the last thing. Real conservatives don't talk that way. Real conservatives know that freedom is the route to prosperity.

Except, Ace, this line was on the lips of damn near every "True Conservative" in the comments sections of places like this, as well as being said by Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin and guys like that all the time. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's where Romney got the idea from. So while the actual point you're making (Romney not speaking fluent 'conservative') could be true, the example you cite is particularly poor.

Drew can happily suck my cock, because the fact of the matter is that I'm actually proud of Romney. He's the anti-McCain, the anti-Dole, in terms of a losing candidate. Yes, we lost -- but not because of him. He left it all on the field, he promoted Paul Ryan to the leadership of the GOP, and he made a run of it. More importantly, he ran far, far ahead of most of our Senate candidates in the states. That, alone, is proof that it wasn't Romney that was the drag on the GOP last night.

The real problem, sadly, is that the demographics of the country are changing and the GOP has backed themselves into a corner with Latinos.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 07, 2012 11:49 AM (GzATR)

295 Mia Love was up by 12 points in one poll I saw. How the hell did she lose? I smell shenanigans, not just in Utah but everywhere. Oh well.. I am just waiting for this weight around my heart to go away. I even went and did some Christmas shopping but it didn't help. I walked into a Champs store and they were playing rap music so loud I wanted to punch the sales clerk in the face. So I left. I'm not shopping anywhere that plays rap music.

Posted by: jewells45 at November 07, 2012 11:49 AM (1hNQS)

296 How do you win independents and still lose?

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 07, 2012 11:49 AM (4cRnj)

297 @RepWeiner is back on twitter

Posted by: Not and Artist at November 07, 2012 11:49 AM (uRumV)

298 Just say no to raising the debt ceiling. What have we got to lose? The House, 2 years from now. But really, who cares.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 11:49 AM (EX+sq)

299 What I don't get is people have and are treating obama like a politician who just has different beliefs and an opposing value system. Isn't it clear from what we know of obama and his past that he is bent on destroying America as we know it? He's said it in no uncertain terms - fundamentally transforming America. They hate this country. They have no good intent for it. This is far more than just "right" and "left" politics.

Posted by: Havedash at November 07, 2012 11:50 AM (F0WNa)

300 "Rape is a gift from god."

It's not worth pointing out that no Republican candidate said that, is it?

You want to believe the lies you're told. Why? Doesn't matter. You're a worthless lying piece of shit actively working on behalf of tyranny.

Enjoy the pain pill you get when you need a bypass.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 11:50 AM (/kI1Q)

301 who is up for armed insurection? oh thats right theyre already are mobs in ohio and illinois beating folks in the streets. i feel brought together

Posted by: coldwarrior at November 07, 2012 11:50 AM (fpL1+)

302

So Obama got 10 million fewer votes, but Romney got 3 million fewer than McCain?

Posted by: Scratch One Republic at November 07, 2012 11:50 AM (9ghZ6)

303 >>We have been so successful at tax cuts that now too many people don't pay. So let's put everyone back in the game.

The "good" news is that this is about to happen.

Imminent reversal of the Bush tax cuts means that a lot of people who found themselves off the tax rolls for the last 8 years are going to find themselves on the hook for taxes again in 2013.

Posted by: looking closely at November 07, 2012 11:50 AM (6Q9g2)

304 I agree. lets go over the cliff. Let all the dimwitted mofo's who voted for this piece of Sh$t suffer .Zombies

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:50 AM (ZhjCA)

305

I'm not trying to sound or be racist, but the reason we lost (and the reason we didn't see it coming) is because it was minority voters that elected Obama.

They increased their representation by 2%, and whites stayed home.

http://nationaljournal.com/thenextamerica /politics/electoral-maps-results-indicate-deepening -racial-divide-among-voters-20121107

Our vision for America is not minority voters' vision. The demographic turning point has arrived

Posted by: imp at November 07, 2012 11:51 AM (UaxA0)

306 I think the public has now spoken pretty clearly on this: They aren't willing to sacrifice American lives for this latter purpose, this merciful part of military intervention. It costs too many good American boys, and we wind up trading their lives for foreign lives, whose actual worth is subject to some debate. Bush was an idiot for trying to civilize and build nations for the barbarians (we should have just killed them dead and taken the oil fields), but that has nothing to do with this argument of yours - which is incorrect. More Americans died faster under Barky than Bush with dumber and more pathetic rules of engagement (which was no mean feat). It's not about American lives, which Barky treats as nothing but fodder for his assault on America (weird how that works), but about people who act ashamed of what they do. Bush was threatened with war crimes trials in the Hague while Barky was given the Nobel Peace Prize, and Bush was stupidly trying to help a bunch of shithead arabs while Barky was just trying to kill America. But, there you go. If you attack America, you're golden, even in [what used to be] America. because we were just too successful and too strong. No one cares about dead arabs or afghanis, least of all living arabs or afghanis who value life no more than used t-shirt. Bush and many other Westerners make the mistake of valuing the lives of these primitives far more than they themselves value them - but that still has nothing to do with how America dealt with them.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 07, 2012 11:51 AM (X3lox)

307 I walked into a Champs store and they were playing rap music so loud I wanted to punch the sales clerk in the face. So I left. I'm not shopping anywhere that plays rap music.

Be sure to write the corporate headquarters and tell them about the purchase you made at their competitor who wasn't blaring rap music.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 11:51 AM (/kI1Q)

308 How about no more getting on Obama's case for long, expensive vacations and golf games. I hope he's having so much fun these next 4 years he completely forgets about the society he despises.

Posted by: the lone lemon at November 07, 2012 11:51 AM (xXhWA)

309 "The House, 2 years from now.

But really, who cares."

I'd be willing to bet we will lose it anyway.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 11:51 AM (JxIkO)

310 dudes, Romney had his 47% comment which he backed away from. When it polled well with everyone. Obama had his "you didn't build that" which everyone hated. That's why Romney polled well with Independents. They just didn't bother to vote.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 11:52 AM (QxSug)

311 what part of they want free shit do ya'll not get? they think if we throw enough of other peoples' money at wind and solar it will work. they think they are entitled to shit because you didn't build that. They think they are the smart ones and we are the slobs that pollute their utopia.

Posted by: cajun carrot at November 07, 2012 11:52 AM (UZQM8)

312 New Hampshire was brutal.

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:52 AM (ZhjCA)

313 I just realized what this election reminds me of. Think of the last time when we expected a positive result and even the Left expected the same result. But we were slapped in the face by something out of nowhere. Remember? Last June -- the Court's stupid politicial decision on Obamacare. Everyone expected that at the very least the mandate would be struck down, if not the entire law. Instead, it was upheld. Moreover, the Court strengthened the law! We were worse off after the Court's decision, which is exactly like this election. Everyone expected the GOP to make gains. Instead we're worse off. Inexplicable.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 11:52 AM (jUytm)

314 Oops. Sock.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 07, 2012 11:53 AM (TOk1P)

315 >>We forget how awful it was in Iraq just a few years ago. Americans being dragged through the streets, bombings.

Benghazi.

Posted by: looking closely at November 07, 2012 11:53 AM (6Q9g2)

316 305 I'm not the one supporting Bible-thumping jackholes who can't keep from babbling enough stupid shit to lose deep red states. But please, keep supporting these socon nutjobs. It's really helping in the fight against tyranny.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 11:53 AM (EX+sq)

317 "How do you win independents and still lose?"

-- Base turn out.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 11:53 AM (moRRg)

318 My vague, poorly thought out theory on the low turnout-

General disgust with politics, especially among indy "leaners" who didn't vote. I haven't checked the exit polls, but I suspect they'll show that it was the squishy center-right that didn't turn out.

Why? Opposing an incumbent isn't enough. If you ask people to show up just to vote against your opponent, they probably wont. In addition to voting against the incumbent, they need to be motivated into voting for the challenger.

Romney was presidential, qualified... but from the perspective of the squishy voter, wholly uninspiring.

People primarily vote FOR candidates, not against their opponent. If it were otherwise, GWB would've gotten slaughtered in 2004. Only because Kerry wasn't someone people could relate to and genuinely like did Bush manage to squeak out a win.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 07, 2012 11:53 AM (SY2Kh)

319 316 - Ok, I still don't understand that at all. How is it that Obama has the "you didn't build that" line and independents who strongly backed Romney, didn't bother to vote??? How is that possible?

Posted by: Sassy at November 07, 2012 11:53 AM (detCI)

320 I understand some of the reasons Romney lost--he promised a hard road full of work, and that's a tough sell.

I cannot understand why people with good jobs, not on welfare, voted for Obama.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 07, 2012 11:53 AM (P7hip)

321 It's my understanding these drone attacks create a lot of collateral damage. Something of course the lsm never report on. I think I also read somewhere that more American soldiers have now died under oblowme than Bush. His ROE can't even begin to keep them safe.

Posted by: Mrs Compton at November 07, 2012 11:54 AM (dX4hn)

322 >>>Wonder why we lost?

47%

I like being able to fire people who provide services to me

I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there

Yes ficons can suffer foot in mouth too. And you are only person #143245 to try and sell "Purge the SOCONS NOW!!!!"

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 11:54 AM (0q2P7)

323 As people become less religious, they look for what religion provides in other things.

Increasingly, Americans look for salvation in the way that they vote. How many people do you know who think that voting for a Democrat, no matter who he is or what he believes, is the moral thing to do?

And it excuses massive amounts of crude behavior. Just voting for one political party over another allows you to say the nastiest of things to someone. You can lie, cheat, steal and even physically assault people. It's OK, you're on the right side. You're on God's side, even though you're just too good to believe in God.

Just voting for one political party over another means you are smart. You, yourself. Bien pensants.

It's absolution.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 07, 2012 11:54 AM (T0NGe)

324 "Oh, and we're paying the price for 9/11. Period. No 9/11, no Bambi."

Interesting point. Al Queda made a bargain with the devil and won. They assured our destruction.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 11:54 AM (JxIkO)

325 How in the world did Romney get 3 million less votes than McCain? McCain was toast 2 months before the vote

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:54 AM (ZhjCA)

326 Every firefighter and policeman who calls me will get the same answer: "I have no money for your charity, as I am funding the Feds free stuff". Being union members, they will not need me to explain. Localize, run for something and win it. Get on school boards and make them teach civics. Reject the pop culture at every turn. And tweet-harass every single media member incessantly. They cannot block all of us. Fuck 'em if they try.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at November 07, 2012 11:54 AM (ZY+lZ)

327 I'd be willing to bet we will lose it anyway.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 03:51 PM (JxIkO)

I agree with that.
If Boner caves (the correct response), we lose all Republican backing.
If he compromises, we lose all Republican backing.
If he stonewalls to the "cliff", we lose all Republican backing.

Caving ensures that the Democrats own at least half of it.
Should be all, but there's the MSM effect.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (Qxe/p)

328

Ace - answer me this:

The Dems elected Alan Grayson, one of the most vile SOB's ever. They elected a driver's license with the Kennedy name on it. They elected a 1/32nd breed Indian princess, and a certified mental case. Not to mention the other disgusting incumbants that were re-elected.

On the other hand, one stupid comment by Mourdock and Akin, and they were unelectable. George Allen was one of the most bland candidates you will ever find.

When will the Republican establishment learn to select better candidates, and learn to polish a turd like the Dem's do?

Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (aA2hG)

329 Cheers to our President! Lets hope he bring back employment to keep the economy floating back. May he bring back the enduring prosperity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some goof wrote the above. He has no idea how and who creates jobs. He is your typical obama voter.

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (C4dFv)

330 45 It's not our ideals and beliefs that need changing. Conservatism is the way. It's the poisoning of our children for 50+ years and creating anti-American drones that needs to be changed. Forget the House, the Senate and the White House. We need to take back the school districts and the classrooms. Otherwise, all really will be lost and we are on the road to the ovens. The fight for freedom begins at home.

Posted by: chaz at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (C45Td)

331

@315

Maybe Dave, but if you would have asked me in 2008 if we would retake the house in '10, I would have said no. And if you had told me 6 months ago we would win the White House, then to I would have said no. And if then, two days ago you would have told me Romney would lose, I too then would have said no.

Don't give up brother. We need you.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (t06LC)

332 Just say no to raising the debt ceiling. What have we got to lose?

This. If anything can be salvaged from this, that's where it has to start.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (/eBe8)

333 I think the best strategy going forward is to just let all the tax cuts expire. Put more people back on the tax rolls. Yeah, right. The price for losing is losing.

Posted by: The Executive Order at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (FcR7P)

334 Good idea Heather. I just can't stand going into a store where the music is playing so loud I can't hear myself think. Even worse if it's rap which is THE WORSE thing to ever happen to music. I didn't feel much better when I walked in Bath and Body Works and they were already playing Christmas music. Fuck.

Posted by: jewells45 at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (1hNQS)

335 332 - my thoughts exactly. Do not fucking understand this at all.

Posted by: Sassy at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (detCI)

336 I really need to stop posting throughout the day,BUT what if the Republicans started to PROMOTE themselves with major network airtime by making PSAs that actually tell people what the party stands for/has done for the country and exactly what the dems hath wrought. Be relentless..do this in perpetuity make the dems own every piece f craptastic legislation/war/loss/deficit/depression/recession they every created. Yeah, I know...I am dreaming.

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at November 07, 2012 11:55 AM (53riN)

337

Not to mention that, because we don't have a good cross-racial rapport generally, there's no way to influence of convert these insulated minority communities.

Good night, USA.

Posted by: imp at November 07, 2012 11:56 AM (UaxA0)

338 The problems with the "Neocon Project Dead Americans Don't Want Occupation" Theory: 1) The Left never gave a siht about Iraq; it was a convenience to mask the one real issue: Free Siht (and tax "cutting" the gravy). That Iraq is currently a relatively stable, modestly thriving nation (as far as the ME goes, and then some) instead of an aggressive screwup run by saddam's genocidal sons is allowing the Left to not only forget their resistance, but now flagellate the Clintons for not doing something about Rwanda. When asked how that would have been done differently from Iraq they shrug. I've taken the shrugging as little more than Not Bush Did It. 2) We're going on seventy years of Occupying Europe. It's the Progressive Euro-Statits and junketing technocrats who want to keep that going.

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 07, 2012 11:56 AM (jfUIE)

339 "Rape is a gift from god." ------ No one said that, you fuck.

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 11:56 AM (arczc)

340 Someone may have said this already but for Firefly fans, I'm feeling like Mal Reynolds after the Battle of Serenity Valley. Feels like we gave it our all and just lost everything.

Posted by: Moderate the Moderation at November 07, 2012 11:56 AM (MNDeQ)

341 321 - no kidding. that poster has not been paying much attention to Afghanistan lately, either.

Posted by: tofer732 at November 07, 2012 11:56 AM (2zM0P)

342 "The only thing I can think of is that the Republican Congress is even more unpopular than Congress generally"

I think you're finally starting to see it. This should be a no duh. I'm a hell of a lot madder with the GOP then I am the Democrats. The Democrats are a known evil, and while I disagree with them, they are being true to their convictions. The GOP is the opposite. We give the GOP a mandate in 2010 and they abandon their supposed convictions and stab us (their constituents who voted for them) in the back.

I have voted for the GOP and given them my money and they have abandoned me. They are who I am mad at, not the DNC.

I can't stand Nancy Pelosi, but I down right despise John Boehner and would love to see his ass tarred and feathered right back to OH.

Posted by: Andrew at November 07, 2012 11:56 AM (Egza/)

343 Why make the Bush tax cuts permanent? The People have spoken and they want government spending. Let them pay for it.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 11:56 AM (EX+sq)

344 We never found one. Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 03:37 PM (LCRYB) You seriously have to ask yourself. Is it worth it? Do I want to do this to my family? Mitt was at peace with himself, and his family is strong. We always try to find the "perfect" candidate. One doesn't exist. If we have a freckle in the wrong place, this is the front page of every liberal rag and on all the headlines. But, if a potus is getting sucked off in the oval office -- it's all good.

Posted by: the next day at November 07, 2012 11:56 AM (LpQbZ)

345 F the Middle east, bring the troops home now. We need gas to be $10 a gallon here. I respect Israel, but they are on their own now anyways.

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:57 AM (ZhjCA)

346 I say use a nuke to stop a nuke ... hard sites my a** ... use 2 just to be sure ... no boots on the ground ... just grind them under our boot ...

Posted by: JeffC at November 07, 2012 11:57 AM (A3tpD)

347 (we should have just killed them dead and taken the oil fields), ____________________ You don't get to do this anymore. After Vietnam--technology allows the media to bring warfare home to America's Living Room. Couple that with a MSM that refused to expose a sitting Vice President who LIED about how he voted for two wars. Biden lied about sending Americans to their death--that decision process--he got to wash his hands of it. The whole Dem party was allowed to wash their hand soy it as soon as it was expediently possible. An, the MSM let them do that. I think you really have no idea what the military community has been up against.

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 11:57 AM (r2PLg)

348 "There are some downscale voters who ONLY vote Republican because of tribal identification/social issues"

That's why the GOP will continue to lose national elections, they lose way more whites than Dems lose minorities because they cannot make those arguments, while Dems gleefully shriek that Repubs are the party of racist/sexist white males. Just try to imagine the GOP running on a "War on Whites" or "War on Men" meme, it's impossible, we're not allowed to be victims because we're successful.

The only hope for principled equality of opportunity beating affirmative action is if minorities become equally productive as whites, and even then you can't embarrass minorities into rejecting racism they way whites have. The press, the schools... controlled by Dems who teach everyone only white racism is bad.

Posted by: TallDave at November 07, 2012 11:57 AM (/s1LA)

349 "When will the Republican establishment learn to select better candidates, and learn to polish a turd like the Dem's do?"

-- That's not the issue at all; Republicans often reject those candidates who do bad things. It is one of the things that helps us hold on to the moral high ground while we can scoff at the fact the other side continued to elect a man who left a woman to die and that one of their still living presidents is an alleged rapist.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 11:57 AM (moRRg)

350 Probably the most damning headline today:

"Putin welcomes Obama re-election."

We're so hosed.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 07, 2012 11:57 AM (zpqa2)

351 @237 Imho, the young Milla Jovovich is almost unbearably beautiful. Luc Besson almost always delivers, too. (His "LÃ©on: The Professional" (1994) is a minor masterpiece.)

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 11:58 AM (1V6Pv)

352 Is there some kind of morning-after pill I can consume to jettison this jug-eared rape parasite? I feel so ashamed.

Posted by: Fritz at November 07, 2012 11:58 AM (/ZZCn)

353 After Vietnam--technology allows the media to bring warfare home to America's Living Room.

It could have been done in WW II, FDR just didn't allow it.

Posted by: TallDave at November 07, 2012 11:58 AM (/s1LA)

354 349. Whoa. What mandate in 2010? We did not take the Senate.

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:58 AM (ZhjCA)

355 Cheers to our President! Lets hope he bring back employment to keep the economy floating back. May he bring back the enduring prosperity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some goof wrote the above. He has no idea how and who creates jobs. He is your typical obama voter.

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 03:55 PM (C4dFv)

Mary in Battlesboro VT?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 11:58 AM (1Jaio)

356 >>They elected a driver's license with the Kennedy name on it. They elected a 1/32nd breed Indian princess, and a certified mental case.

Its (Ted Kennedy, Barney Frank, etc) Massachusetts.

That's enough of an explanation for those two right there.

Posted by: looking closely at November 07, 2012 11:58 AM (6Q9g2)

357 "I am not a witch."

"A uterus can get rid of a rape fetus."

"Rape is a gift from god."

Wonder why we lost?

Posted by: Sugar Fatty

Nope, that wasn't why. Obama and Biden said a lot stupider and offensive stuff a lot more often than our candidates did. It's the Media. Put blame where it belongs. They are the cause of it. Don't let the traitors off by putting the blame elsewhere. Remember. The MSM. The Media. The journalists. Never forget that.

Posted by: katya the designated driver at November 07, 2012 11:58 AM (DoZD+)

358 in so many respects, this was the perfect storm for us to win and, then our own base let us down down from 2008? wtf? I still feel like I am living a dream hearing that.

Posted by: the next day at November 07, 2012 11:59 AM (LpQbZ)

359 If the voters hated congress that much, we would have lost the House. Voters want split Gubmint

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 11:59 AM (ZhjCA)

360

@337

I think the problem is we lost the war for the classroom. Voters, by in large are for lack of a better word dumber. They don't understand the democrats are full of shit and can't possibly deliver.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 11:59 AM (t06LC)

361 Tell me, Ace - how "horrifying" is it that North Korea is a nuclear power?

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 11:59 AM (jQm+J)

362

Pundits and Pundettes:

Obama lost TEN MILLION VOTES in this election. The GOP lost THREE MILLION. Why Romney couldn't capitalize is for the talking heads to decide.

Did it ever occur to someone that, just perhaps, people are sick and tired of the 2 party system ...... PERIOD? That they stayed home because they don't view a difference between them anymore? People like Love and West may just be casualties of an electorate that is wants an increasing part of "govt cheese", and that will punish those that try to take it away. Or that the electorate views a Federal Govt behemoth that's just too big and powerful to be tamed at this point.

I think people are just giving up on the Federal Govt and realize that it's beyond fixing. The best alternative to them is moving to a red state and hoping for the best.

Posted by: PelosiSchmelosi at November 07, 2012 12:00 PM (oBrP/)

363 My GOP, my GOP, why hast Thou forsaken me? Ace 23:46

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 12:00 PM (C4dFv)

364 "and, then our own base let us down " Where is the evidence for this?!

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 12:00 PM (ZZPs4)

365 Tell me, Ace - how "horrifying" is it that North Korea is a nuclear power? ------- The naivete that infests your party is astounding. A bunch of children thinking the world is made of unicorns and lollipops.

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 12:00 PM (arczc)

366

Why make the Bush tax cuts permanent? The People have spoken and they want government spending. Let them pay for it.

----

Don't let them have it. Let the middle class start paying more into the system. Starve the beast didn't work. If they want to extend the middle class cuts, get something big in return. Raise taxes on the rich but get huge bona fide spending cuts. Otherwsise just take the blame that we will get for all the tax increases. I'll back the GOP on that strategy. Don't raise the deficit ceiling unless you get something real in return. Otherwise just take the blame that we will get for defaulting.

Posted by: SH at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (gmeXX)

367 Our vision for America is not minority voters' vision. The demographic turning point has arrived

But minority voters' don't have a vision. They have a team. That's it. Obama's been the worst thing for blacks in 60 years.

Doesn't matter. Vote Democrat.

Democrats generally see life as a rigged game and if you want anything, you'll have to have a man on the inside. That's it, that's how they think economics works.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (T0NGe)

368 >>>and learn to polish a turd like the Dem's do?

oh sure. When my eeeeevil plan unfolds and WE control 80% of all forms of entertainment and news media, we'll be able to crush the carbon of those turds into polished diamond.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (0q2P7)

369 In modern America, it all comes down to who dominates the media and entertainment channels. America is now a pop-culture obsessed celebrity focused nation. As long as conservatives ignore this and try to downplay the importance of celebrities and Hollywood in shaping the minds of the populace, we will fail hard. The only way to come back from this is to insinuate ourselves in the entertainment industry. However this will never happen because, as much as I'm loathe to admit it, conservatives simply aren't as talented and subtle at crafting entertainment.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (Td9D+)

370 @ 343

"what if the Republicans started to PROMOTE themselves with major network airtime by making PSAs that actually tell people what the party stands for/has done for the country"

Yes you are dreaming I'm afraid. That time is over. The only lesson that will stick now is PAIN.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (zpqa2)

371 No one said that, you fuck.

No. But what he said was close enough that it may as well have been the same thing.

Look, I abhor the rape/incest exception as much as the next SoCon. Maybe more than some. But the fact is saying anything other than "I cannot see any law passing without that exception" is just silly.

As EoJ said in one of his first BourbonCasts, if you have to go on the record saying rape is bad, you've done something terribly wrong. It's that simple.

In this election, the appropriate answer might even have been, "We have so many fiscal issues to fix that I can't consider what I might, or might not, support from a social angle. Ask me again in six years, and we'll see."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (/eBe8)

372 344 Not to mention that, because we don't have a good cross-racial rapport generally, there's no way to influence of convert these insulated minority communities. Good night, USA. Posted by: imp at November 07, 2012 03:56 PM (UaxA0) ______ And thank you, MSM and civil rights activists, for providing constant inflammation to beat back cross-racial rapport wherever it rears its ugly head.

Posted by: Dante at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (NWLVJ)

373 "And if then, two days ago you would have told me Romney would lose, I too then would have said no. Don't give up brother. We need you."

I am just so very very tired of fighting and losing. The victory in 2010 was fun, but what did it accomplish? It put a brake on Obama's excesses, but meanwhile we continue to barrel toward a fiscal cliff.

Meanwhile, we just got hit upside the head by knowledge that the culture was won, while weren't looking, and we can't depend on 3 million of our voters to show up at the polls when it it this important. The undervote is just killing me.

If I could have any wish, I would wish to be politically naive and know nothing about this.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (JxIkO)

374 286 Remnant? I'd rather go Reaver on the left.

Posted by: rickb223 (I am John Galt) at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (GFM2b)

375 I'm afraid we may already have reached the point where a majority of the population (just barely a majority, but 51% beats 49%) wants the government to provide for them more than they want the opportunity to provide for themselves. It happens to every nation eventually, and we've had over 200 years - not a bad run in the grand scheme of things. I don't think that the trend is going to reverse itself at this point any more than it has for any other nation, from ancient Rome to modern Greece. Our founders warned us that the country would only last until a majority of the people decided to vote themselves a larger share of what others have earned - I think we finally reached that tipping point when Obama convinced people they could have free houses during the Bush years. Might as well enjoy the ride as long as possible, fortunately we've risen so far over the last two centuries that it will take a while to reach the bottom. Then someone else can take over our burden of being the world's superpower while we live in the prosperity that "take from the rich, give to everyone else" brings.

Posted by: Norcross at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (THNke)

376 "That they stayed home because they don't view a difference between them anymore?"

-- Shame on us for not educating them about the difference, because there are legion.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (moRRg)

377 "Just say no to raising the debt ceiling. What have we got to lose?"

The House.

Oh, hell, we're probably going to lose it in 2014 anyway when the economy crashes and the MFM explains its because Obama's awesomeness has been held in check, might as well go out with a bang I guess.

Posted by: TallDave at November 07, 2012 12:01 PM (/s1LA)

378 Re: Affbuttfugistan, we shouldn't be in any war where our Marines can't piss on the dead enemy. Period.
If the dead enemy is Muslim, we should feed them to swine, smoke POWs up good with hashish, put tutus on the pigs and tell the POWs these are their houris.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 12:02 PM (1V6Pv)

379

From this article by Jim Geraghty, "Not Less Painful as the Day Goes On" on the campaignspot at NR

"But wait, just in case this wasnÂ’t bad enough, hereÂ’s a look at ObamaÂ’s vote margin in some key states as of this afternoon (these figures will change a bit as those straggling precincts report in):

Virginia: 107,339

Ohio: 100,763

Florida: 47,493

Colorado: 111,094

Nevada: 66,379

Total: 433,068"

Does anyone know how to find out how many Obamaphones there are in each of these states?

Did free phones by the vote here?

Posted by: jt2 at November 07, 2012 12:02 PM (U3CzV)

380 Democracies get the leaders they deserve. America as I knew and loved it is finished. It will not survive the next four years. And I cannot waste more time lamenting it.

The Republican party will never see another cent. I will always vote party line, like always, but if they can't out-spend the worst opponents they've ever gone up against and still couldn't seal the deal, they don't need more of my money.

It's not enough to be right. Having the moral high ground means exactly squat unless you take off the gloves and play to win. Until the Republicans learn that securing the future of our country is a dirty street-fight EVERY DAY, and they're willing to fight it that way to win, they mean nothing. Until then, they're not even a real opposition party. They're a joke. A cadre of political has-beens and never-will-be's too concerned about which cocktail parties to which they have invites.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 07, 2012 12:02 PM (WWuYG)

381 Agreed. I cannot believe the electorate was D+6. Just frickin unbelivable.

As much as we despise Obama, the guy is a cult figure to the zombies

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 12:02 PM (ZhjCA)

382 #358

The current "old" Jojovich isn't so hard on the eyes either.

http://tinyurl.com/bm4xlzy

I remember when that movie came out, and Star Wars Episode 1 came out not that much later, and after watching that POS, I was wondering why the hell some Euro-made sci-fi piece was better than a multi-gazillion dollar George Lucas blockbuster that fans waited over 20 years for?

Posted by: looking closely at November 07, 2012 12:02 PM (6Q9g2)

383 Just up on Drudge: Boehner agrees to tax increases. So he stood up to Obama for, what, nearly 3 hours on that?

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 12:02 PM (B/VB5)

384 323 "-- Base turn out."

Oh yeah, we went with the moderate the MSM said we needed, didn't we.

Oh well !

Posted by: jeanne, in full escapist mode at November 07, 2012 12:02 PM (GdalM)

385 One thing we need to do, quickly, is to draw a clear distinction between whatever comes in the short term economically and the debt crisis. They are connected, but not perfectly so. It was useful to conflate those 2 before, but it isn't anymore, and it also isn't completely accurate. The voters tolerated 4 years at or above 8% unemployment. A income drop of 4K. They'll shoot their wad if it drifts below 7, or 6, and at some point it could. None of that does much to change the debt crisis or our unwillingness to touch entitlements. That's the stuff that is definitely going to bring us down. It is going to happen. It's just a matter of how quickly his energy hating, crony paying model accelerates the demise, and that may not move in a straight line. There can be ebbs and flows, and it's time for the party to start thinking how to talk in those terms now.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 07, 2012 12:02 PM (UvR6d)

386 @372 Geez, I didn't read the whole Republican platform, but where it did endorse taxpayer-subsidized lollipops and unicorns for everyone?

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 12:03 PM (jQm+J)

387

Let the Dems remove the filibuster rule. I'm not so sure I won't be happy to see it go. It will come in handy not having it when we eventually regain control.

Let's focus on making the redstates as good as possible. Let the blue states go.

Posted by: SH at November 07, 2012 12:03 PM (gmeXX)

388 A Utahn's thoughts on the Mia Love / Matheson race:

I think this election turned out to be a "hunker down and stick with the familiar devil I know,' even if the devil won't stop poking them with a pitchfork of evil. Matheson has around in Utah for ages, whereas Mia was new on the scene and green on a statewide level, her triumph at the RNC aside. Matheson had his well oiled campaign machine, superpacs willing to gleefully smear Mia's record, and a devastating ad in the final stretch full of smiling happy republicans planning to vote for him, including one saying he was "voting for Mitt Romney AND Jim Matheson." One ad painted Mia as a crazy teapartier who would vote in lockstep with Romney, and I think that scared dems away, and apparently dems were not as suppressed a vote as we thought they would be.

Despite that, with the redistricting of Utah to make the SLC area as pinkish as possible, I thought that Mia had a good chance. (SLC handily voted in a dem as mayor, they always do.) I really hope she works on burnishing her resume and gets back in a statewide or national race, but not sure how to make that happen. Had we had the same turnout of 2010 I think she would have squeaked by with a win, it was very close.

Posted by: LizLem at November 07, 2012 12:03 PM (8wqqE)

389 how "horrifying" is it that North Korea is a nuclear power?

Well it ain't good. But it would be worse if they could aim a missile and hit the same continent on which their target was situated.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 12:03 PM (/eBe8)

390 387. That is real big advantage Dems have. They have no morals, and their voters do not care. Al Franken said worse than Akin in 2008, and he won

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 12:04 PM (ZhjCA)

391 "But minority voters' don't have a vision. They have a team. That's it. Obama's been the worst thing for blacks in 60 years. Doesn't matter. Vote Democrat."

It works because appeals to minority racism are deemed acceptable by the MFM.

Posted by: TallDave at November 07, 2012 12:04 PM (/s1LA)

392 Hi there. My name is Tommy. You've admired me your whole life. But did you ever really READ the words I gave you???

Here they are again. Let them be a solution:

"We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends."

Posted by: Tommy J. at November 07, 2012 12:04 PM (Bv9qa)

393

346 -

True, nobody said it, but if Mourdock had used those exact words instead of the ones he did, the difference would have been what, exactly?

Posted by: BurtTC at November 07, 2012 12:04 PM (TOk1P)

394 Posted by: TallDave at November 07, 2012 03:41 PM (/s1LA)

A week and a half after Romney's 47% comment was leaked, radio stations were STILL leading their noon news broadcasts with it.

Posted by: slatz at November 07, 2012 12:04 PM (mE0Rl)

395 You gotta laugh at the "OH NOES - the Jews voted for Dems again!" crowd.
Their "understanding" of American Jewry is about at the level of D'ohbama's understanding of capitalism.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 12:04 PM (jQm+J)

396 "122 Problem is for you guys that all your numbercrunchers were way the f off their marks. 321 for Romney? Michael Barone? My goodness. And all those posts about the polls being wrong. Oh yes. How many hours were spent on that? And Hating Silver, who got it exactly right?" The analysis and number crunching were correct. We just didn't believe it would be a D+6 election. It was. Dave in Fla had the numbers to show that Obama would win under those conditions. We had two polls on voter ID from Rasmussen & Gallup, both respected pollsters who had the voter ID to be R+2 or R+3 based upon very large samples. So, the conclusions were not at all unreasonable -- they were just incorrect.

Posted by: Macaroon at November 07, 2012 12:04 PM (bw8pg)

397 @396: So he ran ads saying both that you should vote for him and Romney, and then that Romney is crazy and Mia Love might vote like him? That's... flexible.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 12:05 PM (B/VB5)

398

Romney would have won easily if millions of conservative voters had not stayed home. Reason conservatives didn't vote.

1: I have a job and couldn't stand in line.

2: The anti morman pushback.

3: A lot of people could not get past "the rich" label.

4: They no longer like either party and dont see a differance.

5: Afraid someone might find out they voted republican,

6: Our education system has produced a generation of dumb#ss's

7: Turned off by the hole process.

8: Both Rpmney and Obam sucked

9: To lazy to vote

10: They dont vote so they can keep bitching abount how bad things are.

Posted by: jhaley at November 07, 2012 12:05 PM (Nhkx3)

399 @389 I see what you mean! It would take more than cracker-eatin'....

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 12:05 PM (1V6Pv)

400 But wait, just in case this wasnÂ’t bad enough, hereÂ’s a look at ObamaÂ’s vote margin in some key states as of this afternoon (these figures will change a bit as those straggling precincts report in):

Virginia: 107,339
Ohio: 100,763
Florida: 47,493
Colorado: 111,094
Nevada: 66,379
Total: 433,068"

Does anyone know how to find out how many Obamaphones there are in each of these states?
Did free phones by the vote here?

Posted by: jt2 at November 07, 2012 04:02 PM (U3CzV)

If we just got the McCain numbers to vote Romney could have won

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 12:05 PM (1Jaio)

401 Count me out of the "let it burn" crowd. This is the last and only remaining place on earth where true freedom and opportunity is possible - although receding. There is no place to emigrate to.

I have children, and want them to at least have a shot at a better life than I have. I won't cheer the utter collapse of our country - and their future - tantrum-style because of a lost election. I understand the sentiment, but it is entirely defeatist.

I'd rather keep fighting. We forget 2010 so quickly. There are many people - almost half of the country - who share our beliefs. There are people risking and giving their lives for what we believe in. I'm not about to dishonor that sacrifice by wishing for the destruction of this country.

Posted by: angler at November 07, 2012 12:05 PM (SwjAj)

402 Don't let them have it. Let the middle class start paying more into the system. Starve the beast didn't work. If they want to extend the middle class cuts, get something big in return. Raise taxes on the rich but get huge bona fide spending cuts. Otherwsise just take the blame that we will get for all the tax increases. I'll back the GOP on that strategy. Don't raise the deficit ceiling unless you get something real in return. Otherwise just take the blame that we will get for defaulting. --- Sure, try to get as much in spending cuts as possible. And then raise taxes to cover current spending. No more debt financing and Fed printing.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 12:05 PM (EX+sq)

403 So why didn't the public punish Obama for sending 75,000 more troops to Afganstan and have 1500 hundred more deaths in the last 4 years....BECAUSE REPUBLICANS NEVER CAMPAIGNED ON IT, they back down, while democrats vote for a war then critize Bush's handling while campaigning against the war. Republicans leave everything off the table... While democrats throw every shit they can with the media's helps , but do Republicans fight back... Why didn't a Pack advertise that Obama would pass immigration reform, 20 million illegals in Ohio. Republicans don't know how to fight dirty or fight... Romney puts a ad up about welfare reform, the Obama camp gets the media say it's a le... But they don't stop their they get the local media to say it's a lie... They did the same with the Chrysler ad, while Obama puts ad after ad up about Romney all one lie after another and to push back. Why the democrats win is they let hit no challenge go UN challenged. Because if the media and celebrity hate on Republicans , even though they're not throwing slander a democrats , they still are viwed by the public as so, even shamefully by republicans or why would republicans lose in red states but democrats win every blue Senate race. And look how fucked the public is , their own state they want Republican Governor' s to keep the tax and spending low., republicans winning 30 . But they sent fucking dems to congress, meaning they think they will get some else's money. America has just caught up to the rest of Western world, liberal goverment, with the help of black and Hispanic votes 30% of the population voting going 70 to 95 for one party while the white vote is split , 60% nationally going to Republicans but you can't win Ohio, PA NH, and Wisconsin, other 70% white states without democrats getting closer to 50 % white vote.

Posted by: Sam at November 07, 2012 12:05 PM (FWINB)

404 and we can't depend on 3 million of our voters to show up at the polls when it it this important. The undervote is just killing me. __________________________ This. Have you looked at the exit polling for age yet? I have a sneaky suspicion we lost Florida over The Third Rail. What was your biggest surprise on election night? It was Florida for me.

Posted by: tasker at November 07, 2012 12:06 PM (r2PLg)

405 What's the evidence on how much Romney's mormonism hurt him with soccons?

Posted by: SFGoth at November 07, 2012 12:06 PM (dZ756)

406

@187

You clearly haven't been paying attention. The "marriage equivalent" that you're describing has existed for quite a while now. It's called a "Civil Union", and gets popular support pretty much everywhere it comes up for a vote.

Unfortunately, the reason that we had to have Prop 8 here in California was because the high court in California decided that the fact that Civil Unions existed meant that banning same sex marriages violated the state constitution.

No, really. That's what the court said.

Let me repeat that in case you didn't get it - the court justified forcing the legalization of same sex marriages on the fact that civil unions were a legal alternative to marriage.

Posted by: junior at November 07, 2012 12:06 PM (UWFpX)

407 #173 - spot on. I'm guessing most here don't do the 9 to 5 thing, esp. in suburban areas. Here in NoVa the "rapeabortion" theme played every 10 seconds (well, seemed that way) on morning & afternoon drive, and on the (so called) "chick's channels" (easy listening - piped into offices). It'll be interesting to see the demos per each race...

Posted by: Jess1 at November 07, 2012 12:06 PM (LwGY+)

408 Good to see more people coming to the realization that the neocon project is dead. Bush 43 will not be remembered fondly in history.

Posted by: RJ at November 07, 2012 12:06 PM (QTVh2)

409 >>>Tell me, Ace - how "horrifying" is it that North Korea is a nuclear power?

North Korea? You mean the folks who DON'T teach their kids the virtue of suicide bombing? You mean the country lead by a guy who doesn't close his public addresses with a prayer to God to hasten the end of the world. You mean the folks who talk about owning their neighbor not consuming it in fire and killing every member of the country? I guess not as horrifying as it could be. 'Cause a nuke in the hands of someone I just described? That's nightmare fuel.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 12:07 PM (0q2P7)

410 >>> BOEHNER: GOP would accept new taxes under 'right conditions... Where does Boehner think he gets the authority to say this crap?

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 12:07 PM (C4dFv)

411 390 Just up on Drudge: Boehner agrees to tax increases. So he stood up to Obama for, what, nearly 3 hours on that?

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 04:02 PM (B/VB5)

His only mistake is giving the appearance of opposition.

He should have said "Elections have consequences. You won. We'll try it your way."

And then said NO to raising the debt limit.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 07, 2012 12:07 PM (Qxe/p)

412

@380

We all are tired of losing Dave, but honestly, the only canidate I ever voted for who won is W. I don't know shit about winning. All I look around me for as far as I can see is ruin. We are running out of options and time. We lost again yesterday, but we don't have to like it.

What I can tell you is there is a surefire way to lose, and that is not to fight. I will not go quietly into that good night! I will not cede the ground and let those liberal bastards take everything. It takes will to fight. And perhaps an overoptomistic view of the world, but I will not quit. I will not surrender. For I am a moron, and there are a fuckton of pudding cups left to be defiled by my genitalia!!! HOIST THE COLORS

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 12:07 PM (t06LC)

413 >>>ISRAELI OFFICIAL: Â‘WE WILL NOT CAPITULATE BEFORE OBAMA.Â’ The above is the kind of shit Boehner should be saying.

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 12:08 PM (C4dFv)

414 Just up on Drudge: Boehner agrees to tax increases. So he stood up to Obama for, what, nearly 3 hours on that? Glad we've got locals to guard our embassy...

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 12:08 PM (FcR7P)

415
I think its cute that some people think that the dems will own half of anything they actually do that goes bad. We have to get to a point where people are forced to look at them.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 12:08 PM (PHb2k)

416 >>What was your biggest surprise on election night?
>>It was Florida for me.

Me too.

I always though VA and OH were shaky, but I thought we at least had a lock on Fl.

To be honest, I bet even the Obama campaign thought they would probably lose FL.

Posted by: looking closely at November 07, 2012 12:09 PM (6Q9g2)

417 @403 You got your religious and then you got your hereditary. The hereditary are Liberals before they're anything else. Buddhist, Vegan, vegetarian, Reformed Lesbian Rabbis Only Please, dancers, w/e.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 12:09 PM (1V6Pv)

418 " Jewish vote broke 69% to 30% Obama."

Let Israel get nuked.

Yes, I'm serious. If the Jews don't care why should I???

Posted by: Tommy J. at November 07, 2012 12:09 PM (Bv9qa)

419 BOEHNER should say that the American people voted for higher taxes, and that's exactly what they're going to get.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 12:09 PM (EX+sq)

420

As Bill Mitchell said in an earlier thread:

1) Record Republican Enthusiasm

2) Record Republican Fundraising

3) Record GOTV

4) Record Early Voting

5) Record Republican Crowds

6) Record Independent Support

= Record Low Turnout?

How low was Republican turnout? Lower than 2004!

Folks, something stinks.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 09:26 AM (hlUJY)

We can beat ourselves all day over what went wrong how it should have been done differently, but it still comes down to vote fraud. It's the Chicago Way.

Does anybody know what was in the voting machine patch? http://tinyurl.com/d4wzbt2

For all we know, the prior incidents where voting machine fraud was obvious were set-ups so nobody would notice the fraud that wasn't obvious. Perhaps the machines were "corrected" so they'd register a vote for Obama without displaying that to the voter. I'd guess the programming for the machines has since been wiped so we'll never know for sure.

If it is vote fraud, it will become more obvious with each election. After all, Chicago hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1931.

Posted by: More Cynical at November 07, 2012 12:10 PM (YwRzd)

421

The only thing I can think of is that the Republican Congress is even more unpopular than Congress generally, and more unpopular than Romney generally.

It was the debt ceiling standoff that did it. Sadly, the county saw the Tea Party House majority as a bunch of bomb-throwers when they didn't agree to extend the debt ceiling and it looked like they would force a government shutdown.

Posted by: Revenant at November 07, 2012 12:10 PM (W7GH9)

422 @417 - Wow, thanks for taking that load off my mind. I thought North Korea was governed by the world's most oppressive totalitarian regime, headed by a person you MUST believe to be a god.

You learn something every day.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 12:11 PM (jQm+J)

423 I'm telling you guys Evangelicals had a hard time going for a Mormon. I didn't believe it. But these turnout numbers and the things I was told personally by multiple "Christians" makes me lean that way.

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 12:11 PM (arczc)

424 Note: if you cannot find the resources to get Congress to declare war and to pay for it, you don't send in the troops.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 07, 2012 03:34 PM (dZ756)

Seems like a very succinct reasoned foreign policy in one sentence!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 07, 2012 12:11 PM (Cnqmv)

425 "419 390 Just up on Drudge: Boehner agrees to tax increases. So he stood up to Obama for, what, nearly 3 hours on that?" Don't speak ill of the Great Boehner! He's playing eight-dimensionall chess with Barry!

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 12:11 PM (ZZPs4)

426 "BOEHNER: GOP would accept new taxes under 'right conditions...

Where does Boehner think he gets the authority to say this crap?"

You were paying attention yesterday, right? Obama wants tax increases, he is going to get them. Continuing to play chicken on this issue is a lost cause.

Look, it doesn't really matter, the country is going to go down the drain. Raising taxes on small businesses to 100% only hastened the reckoning. I say give it to him.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 12:11 PM (JxIkO)

427 If we're willing to go to war, then why not an embargo? Nothing in, nothing out. This can be done with air and naval assets and very little in the way of ground forces. Imposing it will reduce their military just by their resistance. Once we completely own the air, the Israelis can do the armored columns/lighting strikes, although since they'll be coming in on CV-22s or MV-22s to raid specific sites the "armored column" thing is really just infantry on the ground with a lot of air support.

I agree that Iran is an un-winnable ground war and should not be started. But if we play our cards right we don't need to do much on the ground as-is. Tehran is in a bowl in the mountains, it's practically designed to be airburst nuked if it comes to that. I very much hope it doesn't, but membership in the Nukes Club For Men doesn't just come with a shirt and a secret handshake, it also involves being on a targeting list.

Posted by: Darren at November 07, 2012 12:11 PM (cKoDv)

428

329 As people become less religious, they look for what religion provides in other things.

Increasingly, Americans look for salvation in the way that they vote. How many people do you know who think that voting for a Democrat, no matter who he is or what he believes, is the moral thing to do?

And it excuses massive amounts of crude behavior. Just voting for one political party over another allows you to say the nastiest of things to someone.

------------------------------------------------------------

I live in the heart of a blue blue area, and have lots of acquaintances on the crazy left. This election, as viewed through the prism of facebook, has been astonishing to me. You are abolutely right, having the correct political views, have the proper "likes" on your page, allows people to say the most disgusting things about "the other", those evil conservatives.

Posted by: Boots at November 07, 2012 12:11 PM (neKzn)

429 It wasn't vote fraud, or, if it was, it is not on a massive enough scale to make up for losing 3 million votes. My thoughts? Romney thought he was getting low-interest voters to vote early. Instead, he got his enthusiastic voters.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 12:12 PM (moRRg)

430 There is also the simple fact that for the last 20 years the 1% has taken more and more of the economic gains. Yes they pay more taxes but that's a pain that can be suffered if your income increase exceeds that amount.

those at the very bottom who still work and those in the lower middle have seen actual declines in their purchasing power and full well knew it.

Those at the top got too greedy and those at the bottom could see it. It's a recipe for resentment and revenge.

I don't say it's right or that it's the only thing that mattered but I think it had an effect. Bush wasn't hit by it because of the war. Once that excuse diminished that wing of the party was toast.

Romney was the poster boy of that type of resentment. Enough that many didn't bother to vote. Seeing no difference in what would happen in the country except those getting government largesse at the top would have different names and skin color.

I think, as in many disasters, there isn't one particular point or event that can be blamed for what happened. It was a gestalt of a number of disparate negatives that weighed heavily in favor of folks staying away.

Remember the Libs stayed away in large numbers also so they're not happy with Obama either. Too many on our side were turned off too. Who knows for what reason. A poll would probably need 40 questions to cover all the reasons people didn't show.

And anyone who thinks that the Republicans in the House will stand their ground against Obama are living in a dream world. Oh they'll talk it up and bluster and threaten but they'll cave just like they did for 2 years and give him everything he want(ed/s).

Name one thing Obama was denied by the House. Or the line the Senate could've drawn in the sand too make them cross.

Our own "leaders" don't have the same passion about their supposed platform. That leaks through to people.

Posted by: Jcw46 at November 07, 2012 12:13 PM (SP4jC)

431 Ok, I still don't understand that at all. How is it that Obama has the "you didn't build that" line and independents who strongly backed Romney, didn't bother to vote??? How is that possible?

They weren't strongly backing Romney. They were backing Obama's opponent, and Romney provided a credible alternative. Just not a terribly appealing one. But people don't show up to vote against a candidate, they show up to vote for a candidate.

In the end it was Obama attacking Romney, Romney criticizing Obama. They might have been on the anti-Obama side, but weren't sufficiently on the pro-Romney side to bother voting.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 07, 2012 12:13 PM (SY2Kh)

432 I think its cute that some people think that the dems will own half of anything they actually do that goes bad. We have to get to a point where people are forced to look at them. Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 04:08 PM (PHb2k) We have to FORCE the MFM to watchdog each other, somehow get them infighting, because we can't (obviously) adequately get the word out from outside that gigantic adamantium bubble of unreality. And CBS can look us in the face and LIE OBVIOUSLY about their Benghazi cover-up (hiding what Obama said to protect him) with a straight face. ABC and NBC and CNN should be SAVAGING them for that, but they're all colluding with their political brethren in the LIES. Just like they successfully buried Fast and Furious - with lies. Bodies on the ground, blood in the street, ON PURPOSE, and it all "went away" because the MFM wanted it to. They have to be taken down before we can even have an honest discussion about what we need to do to stay afloat as a country, not to mention actually accomplishing anything.

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 12:13 PM (bxiXv)

433 I see Ace put up another thread.
Non political and such.

So I'm gonna stick down here for a bit.
I keep hearing about reduced turnout and such.

I live across from TWO Polling Places!
I watched, talked to and listened to everyone from my wife, who lived here for almost forty years, to the local news station reporting huge lines all day.
I stood in lines over 150foot long with people who said they had never seen such a turnout.
And I watched that continue right through the entire day, non stop.

And then suddenly on television, the references to record turn out stopped.
And the final numbers showed that not only did voters not chose Romney in even remotely large numbers, but they chose to not even vote for Obama in large numbers.
And than I thought that maybe they were showing up to vote on all the ballot questions and referendums, and choosing to leave the presidential choice blank. But that wasn't the case. Each of the totals for the other items was less than the totals for the presidential election.
So I am left with only two possible answers.
1. Those people that we all saw were never there.
2. They weren't standing in line to vote, just to get a free donuts or something.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 07, 2012 12:13 PM (BPyqV)

434 You know it would be nice if Republicans in Congress stood up for their alleged principles once in a while and maybe yes force a government shutdown, and maybe yes, refuse to raise the debt ceiling and force some austerity down government's throat.

Why raise the debt ceiling when the libs are just going to use that money to buy the next election with cronyism and Obamaphones?

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 12:14 PM (9221z)

435

@436

Classic Vogelin

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 12:14 PM (t06LC)

436 The base didn't stay home. Can we please knock that ridiculous crap off? The base voted. And the Independents voted. And we were OUT-VOTED. This didn't happen because Romney was Mormon/too liberal/too conservative/not pro-life enough/etc...

It happened because America is now a D+6 nation (at least), and the gap widens every year that more of us die and more of them reach voting age.

Romney lost because we saw the last Republican win a Presidential election in our lifetimes 8 years ago. It will not happen again.

America was a brilliant 230 year experiment in true economic freedom. But it is over. Turn out the lights, put the chairs up. It was fun while it lasted.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 07, 2012 12:14 PM (WWuYG)

437 THE biggest takeaway should be that the only remaining path to victory is through collapse and the lessons which can only be learned through the experience of real pain. This election proved that any other attempt at messaging is doomed due to going past the nanny state tipping point.

So for me, even though I hate to say it, I'm not going through this again. Let pain be the teacher. We said this election was the last chance, and we lost. So let the teacher of last resort begin the lesson.

In the end, it will provide a more glorious victory anyway.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 07, 2012 12:15 PM (zpqa2)

438 by the way, let's thing of GOP wedge issues that would have impressed voters: *school choice & vouchers *tort reform to solve medical costs *if we were going to be saddled by ghey marriage losing social con issues, we should at least make it a fucking issue, "don't for obama, he's down with adam and steve." *go left of obama on afghan (since he ran to right of McCain in 200

for peace * corruption (no brainer) * jobs * deficit * regulations * war on coal * war on business * gas prices for fucks sake, Obama got 60M votes on rapey mcabortion teachers teachers teachers. I don't think an umbrella reliance on Romney's competence was enough to GOTV.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 12:15 PM (QxSug)

439 "You were paying attention yesterday, right? Obama wants tax increases, he is going to get them. Continuing to play chicken on this issue is a lost cause." And Bush wanted Social Security reform. Did he get it?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 12:15 PM (ZZPs4)

440 Oh, and I heard that in Danbury, CT that there was a massive turnout of illegals at the polling places. But with a Dem Governor, you can expect a quick investigation into it.

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 12:15 PM (9221z)

441 Choose which future faction of the Democrat Party you want to join, because the GOP is toast.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 12:16 PM (EX+sq)

442 >>My thoughts? Romney thought he was getting low-interest voters to vote early. Instead, he got his enthusiastic voters.

That sounds about right.

And I really think the hurricane swayed the election. The polls, as it turned out, were accurate. Just before the storm, Romney was leading in most of them. The debates had gotten the attention of the "low interest" voters. Then the storm comes, wipes campaign news off of the airwaves/media, and these easily distracted voters, who in polling may have promised to go to the polls, blew it off.

Posted by: angler at November 07, 2012 12:17 PM (SwjAj)

443

My ultimate takeaway from this? A majority of the American people are utterless worthless and beyond redemption. I want nothing to do with them, I share nothing with them, I feel no civic bond with them. They are as alien to me as Pashtun tribesmen herding goats in Afghanistan.

Posted by: radar at November 07, 2012 12:17 PM (zmlwq)

444 re: "I noticed some gloating last night on some threads around here, names I haven't seen around since Romney more or less had the nomination sewn up."

In case I'm one of those, I'll explain.

I always said nobody can beat Obama, and that only Perry *might* have stood a chance of it, because among the plausible nominees, only he had the potential to offer a distinctive enough contrary *image* to Obama's to inspire the not-guaranteed-to-turn-out fuck-Obama crowdÂ—a crowd you guys *really* don't understand.

Policy-wise, Perry isn't really distinguishable from Romney (or Obama), but he was (or could be presented as) a different kind of *dude* than Obama is. Romney *isn't* a different kind of dude, and he couldn't be disguised as one.

I know you all still think they're opposites, or at least fundamentally different in some sense that to you seems decisive, or like it *should* have been decisive in Romney's favor, but you're just wrong. You're not looking at the right things. You're looking for differences between them that flatter *you*. And...I understand.

SoÂ—while you guys were saying Romney was totally not-Obama-ing it up and gettin' this shit done, I didn't think my saying "You're completely wrong, and Obama's a fuckin' lock, because your guy shares all his offputting qualitiesÂ—and about 50% of his resumÃƒÂ©" fifteen hundred times would be a worthwhile contribution.

"Now that it's *proven* that you were completely wrong, maybe you should consider this not-flattering-to-you possibility re: your proven wrongness" might be worth saying.

Probably not. But hey.

Baseline, before-you-ask-yourself-anything-else question: You and Obama and Romney are at a party together, in line for drinks. (Implausible, yes. Which is its own problem for "conservatism" and all related political-type things. But play along.) It's not election season. No one's running for anything or needs anyone's vote. You're between the two of them in the line for the bar. Do either of them small-talk with you, or do they talk around you, to each other, while they pretend you don't exist?

You know what would happen. You fucking *know.* So admit it, *then* start deducing what just happened.

Posted by: oblig. at November 07, 2012 12:17 PM (cePv8)

445 sorry for spamming... posted this down thread someone please look into the possibilities: WHITE HOUSE INSIDER: Â“SHUT UP. MOVE ONÂ…OR NOT.Â” by Ulsterman on November 7, 2012 with 51 Comments in News After repeated requests for feedback, we finally hear back from the D.C. political operative who just days ago was supremely confident Barack Obama would be defeated in the 2012 Election. They were proven wrong yesterday. Very wrong. Barack Obama remains president. So what now? (The Jarrett-Obama Agenda received four more years last night. Will the promises of Â”revengeÂ” now begin?) ____________________________________ WHI: Please stop with the messaging. IÂ’m going over the #s. State by state. County by county. Had all of that lined up a week ago and it was looking so good for us. Last night not adding up. A major shift in the final hours or some serious anomalies in the actual vote counts. Voter turn out was depressed for both sides. All prior evidence states otherwise. How is that possible? DonÂ’t know. At this point not worth discussing because I donÂ’t have an answer for you so donÂ’t ask. This is f-cking Venezuela we got here. Is what it is for now though. Shut up. Move on. You want me to say I was wrong? Fine. I was wrong. But I said they could steal it. And that is what might have happened. But to pull that off in so many states, would mean they got help. Talking from both sides here. Get it? Republicans. And that is scary. If we are that far gone, what the hell are we to do about that? We need a major reset in America if that is the case. We donÂ’t f-cking deserve America anymore. When those Senators dropped Benghazi I got real worried real fast. It felt like a deal had been made. And the CBS bullsh-t. Talk about a media scandal of epic f-cking proportions. But nobody is pushing it. Like I told you. They buried it. Both sides. Gone. IÂ’ll say it again. BOTH SIDES. Get it? I know localized fraud. But a multiple state millions of votes level of fraud? To pull that off would be incredibly risky and would require help from the apparent opposition side. And I donÂ’t really want to go there right now. Too scary. Read more in News Â« Fewer Voters In 2012 Than 2008 Â– Or 2004????MILITARY INSIDER: Â“Watergate HimÂ” Â» Another thing. They will use this to further divide the conservatives. Stir them up. Get the finger pointing at an all time high. Divide them up even more. Easy pickings then. You might be getting taste of that already. Keep your head up. WonÂ’t sugar coat the real issue here though. America is in big f-cking trouble here. Jarrett said they have two judges ready and waiting. They want to own the Court. Congress really does become moot at that point. More than it already is. Hell, if elections are moot, why not the Court too? Give me 24 more to digest all of this. IÂ’m waiting for feedback from others. Sure they are just as stunned as me. Virginia? That was +3 for us. Easy. When that got jammed up last night I knew something was up. And everybody was saying Â“What is going on?Â” Everybody. IÂ’m hearing something like 8 million fewer votes. And we donÂ’t win with those #s? That means no Republican pick ups? How is that possible? DonÂ’t know. DoesnÂ’t make any sense. There is no previous election to hold 2012 up against in comparison. I have never experienced an election night roll out like what happened last night. Never. Give me 24. Maybe we shut this down. Permanent or temporary I donÂ’t know yet. IÂ’ll echo the Old Man. IÂ’m sorry too. Really believed we had this one. To give you a taste of what IÂ’m doing now IÂ’ll share this with you. IÂ’m using a Florida outcome in a specific district to try and wrap my head around all of this. Three counties. Martin, St. Lucie, and Palm Beach. Martin is controlled by Republicans and the turnout #s match what all our national trending showed. Big enthusiasm for the Republican candidate. Republican vote dominated Martin County. St. Lucie and Palm Beach are the real tests and is where the #s really start to signal something is wrong. St. Lucie leans Democrat. Palm Beach is Dem dominated. St. Lucie showed marginally less votes for Democrats % wise. Republicans enjoyed some cross-over which is what all the national models were indicating. In Palm Beach County which is Dem. dominated, voter turnout was even more depressed than prior elections, especially for the Democrats. But the Democrats won the district. The Republicans lost. Basically, the Democrat-dominated counties seem to be where some very odd #s came back. And if this is the model they utilized last night, they had to have done it in multiple counties for every swing state. That kind of coordination would be huge. And it would need the help of operatives from the other side. So IÂ’m sitting here trying to figure out if the #s represent real voter outcome, which means almost all our internals were way the f-ck off, or how they pulled off fraud. That will take time. It wonÂ’t matter for this election, but it will make us better prepared for the next one. Either way, I got to focus and make calls, and try to figure this sh-t out. Or not. -INSIDER

Posted by: mrks at November 07, 2012 12:18 PM (15/2r)

446 Re Ace's woulda-coulda-shouldas discussed in the previous thread (I agree with all of them), here's a negative ad I wish we'd seen, but didn't:

Obama's "tell Vladimir I'll have more flexibility after the election."

This "off the record" remark should have hurt Obama-- should have been made to hurt him-- just as Romney's "47%" remark hurt Romney.

Posted by: lael at November 07, 2012 12:18 PM (tUcg9)

447 451 I liked Perry too, but Perry reminded people of Bush and therefore would have had no chance.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 12:19 PM (EX+sq)

448 @444 "America was a brilliant 230 year experiment in true economic freedom. But it is over. Turn out the lights, put the chairs up. It was fun while it lasted." I have to agree with this. It's over. We are something else now. It's just a matter of finding out what that is. But in no way, shape or form will it be better. It's a downhill slide from here.

Posted by: Tommy V at November 07, 2012 12:19 PM (ZYlKz)

449 A nice project for some numbers crunchers would be to compare the numbers per the voter sign-in sheets to the numbers of votes per the voting machines. Start with a few precincts in battleground states, and see what it looks like.

Posted by: tofer732 at November 07, 2012 12:19 PM (2zM0P)

450 You know what's so odd- Obama pushed teachers to people that don't have kids, or want to abort them. THAT is who voted for him.

(I know it is really to get the teachers to vote)

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 12:20 PM (opS9C)

451 It begins. WaPo headline: "Boehner opens door to Â‘new revenue,Â’ to halt debt" Quoth the Boehner, "That is the will of the people. And we answer to them"

Posted by: Mr. Lurky McLurkington, Esq. at November 07, 2012 12:20 PM (9ks0K)

452 437 It wasn't vote fraud, or, if it was, it is not on a massive enough scale to make up for losing 3 million votes. Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 04:12 PM (moRRg) They didn't need 3 million votes, they needed a few hundred thousand, especially votes that result from the "machine switch," which are worth two votes each. Besides, each time they get away with it, I lose a little more faith in the system. I am not alone, far from alone. Basically right now I assume they're lying and cheating, and when it really gets tight I owe them nothing. Who is "they"? My government. Can you see how this will be a problem? These people get nailed hard or America, as a country worth respecting, will die. That is the VERY LAST thing I want to see, but it looks like almost everyone doesn't give a shit.

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 12:20 PM (bxiXv)

453

I have some reform and conservative jewish friends on FB, and of course they are big supporters of Barky. And they really seem to despise Israel.

A couple of them have been posting about how evil Israel is, and how they will not support Israel if they strike Iran over the nuke issue, and how Israel is racist for not having the 'right of return' for palestinians.

There was another post this morning about the racism of Israel and how it's borders should go back to the 1967 borders.

I don't get it. They seem to be looking forward to Israel's destruction. Maybe they are secret members of Jeremiah Wright or Louis Farrakahn's brand or religion.

Posted by: Boots at November 07, 2012 12:21 PM (neKzn)

454 So, Obama is barely ahead of Kerry's 2004 performance 59M to 60M because there's a whole pipeline of super libs D+6 coming to town and all us old ass republicans are dying off? yet here we are with lower turnout than last election. unless you're saying that independents completely abandoned Obama, stacking up the GOP totals to look like 57M when GOP should've been at 50M or something. hurts my brain. I don't know, maybe Mitt should've played to the kids more. But if the kids are gay for gays and loves them some rapey abortions, then what can you do?

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 12:21 PM (QxSug)

455 The notion that the GOP should negotiate on the debt ceiling, sequestration, and taxes on the possibility that they might lose control of the House in 2014 is laughable. They won in 2010, they had a mandate of "Stop Obama," and they promptly rolled over for him. What's the worst that could happen to them if they finally take a stand? They get voted out? BFD, they have been ineffectual the entire time so losing control of the House would be no different. It's time for them to grow a pair or else they will remain forever as loyal doormats.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at November 07, 2012 12:22 PM (JxMoP)

456 405 @396: So he ran ads saying both that you should vote for him and Romney, and then that Romney is crazy and Mia Love might vote like him? That's... flexible. Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 04:05 PM (B/VB5)

I think a superpac did the "Mia in lockstep with Romney" ad. It was very insulting, implied she'd be some mindless little lapdog that would do whatever Mitt said. And Matheson never had to dirty his hands one bit, since it was a pac. It didn't help that Mia's campaign also ran ad that was vid of Mitt Romney endorsing Mia and saying he needed her in congress; it kind of supported inadvertantly the democrat ad.

I don't think a lot of people understand the demographics in the SLC area. Half of the city isn't Mormon, and a lot of the trendy hipster Mormons, even the practicing ones, that make SLC their home find a sort of good hearted rebellion in being democratic. Bleeding heart hipster Mormons in my generation are slowly growing in number. It's been almost 200 years now, remembering just how horrible the government has been to Mormons and the importance of fiercely protecting our freedoms is soooooooooo passe. SLC has definitely become a very eclectic place, and it means that dems always have a shot there.

Posted by: LizLem at November 07, 2012 12:22 PM (8wqqE)

457 The bottom line is that the Left wants to make it nearly impossible to get rich anymore. Don't work too hard, there's no point.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 07, 2012 12:22 PM (dZ756)

458 House has to do something, taxes are going up anyway in Jan2013. I say we give SCOAMF his taxes. I wish we could get a budget in return in a bargain. But whatever.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 12:23 PM (QxSug)

459

Americans are a stupid lot. Just retarded beyond comprehension.

Allen West out and Alan Grayson in?

Enjoy your halfwitted, faggy, godless, lazy-ass, hedonistic country as it rots away. You deserve it...morons.

Posted by: CanadianDude at November 07, 2012 12:23 PM (3Ao0s)

460 127 I know my district got reshaped, cut off a conservative leaning chunk and added it to a bigger conservative district, then added a liberal chunk to my area, suddenly were in a blue district. -------- Ditto

Posted by: real joe at November 07, 2012 12:24 PM (PD2ad)

461 The world is not coming to an end. Repeat until assimilated. Its politics, and the electorate of the US has said that they actually want individual liberty. Everybody remembers the whole War on Terror as a bad dream. Alarmcode Orange and the whole Homeland Security scare?

Posted by: Fnord at November 07, 2012 12:25 PM (hoJnS)

462 oh, it's easy to get rich under the left's view point, just donate and you get a green job payout.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 12:25 PM (QxSug)

463 Whatever we can do to hasten the demise of the GOP will probably help too. We tried rebuilding it from within. Time for plan B.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 07, 2012 12:26 PM (zpqa2)

464 441 - I'm with you on that. Seriously wtf happened yesterday????

Posted by: Sassy at November 07, 2012 12:26 PM (VlKT6)

465 72 Maybe someone else can explain the Berg-Tester race.

sorry don't know if anyone did, but Rehberg was polling ahead on Monday...but a libertarian candidate (funded by the Dems) got enough of the vote away to screw it up. I don't know why that factor didn't show up in the polls, which were done by our liberal Lee newspaper chain.

Posted by: jeanne, in full escapist mode at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (GdalM)

466 459. If true, The GOp loses the House in 2014. Boehner will have a tough time getting that in a lame duck anyways

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (ZhjCA)

467

the fact Mia Love and Allen West were defeated gives voice to the lie that all the GOP needs to do is reach out to African Americans

Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (AW9md)

468 413 What's the evidence on how much Romney's mormonism hurt him with soccons? Posted by: SFGoth at November 07, 2012 04:06 PM (dZ756)

There was a group of over a million evangelicals planning to write in Jesus, since they didn't want to vote for a Mormon. And apparently there was an item circulating in black churches about how vile and racist Mormons are, supposedly they got the info from the Washington post or Obama's team but covertly? I can try to find the links. I think antimormonism was a lot stronger than we'd like to think.

Posted by: LizLem at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (8wqqE)

469

waaaay up to Fnord at 46 -

You complained of our internet image, saying it came off 'creepy'. OK what about death threats from KOSkids, that kind of thing? We're supposed to smile and say they're not serious? What about when they start talking about killing our kids? Rioting? Are they being 'creepy'?

Posted by: uterus cannon at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (3ZtZW)

470 The democrats are so screwed. If Boner is smart he will step back and let them own this steaming pile of crap for the next two years. Fu&8 them let them raise taxes, hell let OBama raise taxes on everyone. I can ride out two years of the crap stream. I want my Obama phone, food stamps, unemployment and any other hand out I can get. Ill start a cash only business and barter. My new house hold budget is; dont buy a damn thing except butter and bullets. No new cars, wear old cloths, hell no Christmass this year. No vacations. My 401k being changed to safe haven (just protect what I have). I can go underground for the next two years, until the senate is changed then OBama will be nothing more than a lame duck.

Posted by: jhaley at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (Nhkx3)

471 The Obama administration never stopped campaigning from 2008. We have evidence that people all throughout that campaign were if not perpetrating fraud (cf. that congressman's son), then at least complicit in it (cf. project veritas vids) We know several major figures in the media colluded with Democrats to craft narratives and hide stories (cf. Journolist) We know the Obama campaign is not beyond violated campaign rules (cf. turning off donation verification) We know tons of absentee ballots to normal GOP-leaning voters were somehow mishandled (cf. the military ballots "lost" in the plane crash) I just have a very bad feeling about upcoming elections if this is going to be the new normal...

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 07, 2012 12:28 PM (Y5I9o)

472 LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - The federal program paid out $1.6 billion to pay for free cell phones and the monthly bills of 12.5 million wireless accounts. Overseen by the FCC and intended to help low-income Americans, the program has been a popular one. Participation in the program has risen since 2008. Initially costing $772 million for phones, since Obama, $772 million has become $1.6 billion -- more than doubled.

That's 12.5 million people who will vote to keep their Obamaphone. The dems used our tax money to buy the vote.

Posted by: jt2 at November 07, 2012 12:28 PM (U3CzV)

473 448 - I'm sure that happened. That area is filled with illegal Brazilians. I'm quite sure you're right.

Posted by: Sassy at November 07, 2012 12:28 PM (VlKT6)

474 @ 469

"Its politics, and the electorate of the US has said that they actually want individual liberty..."

When? You must be joking if you're talking about poll numbers from yesterday saying that. How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 07, 2012 12:28 PM (zpqa2)

475 "I don't know, maybe Mitt should've played to the kids more. But if the kids are gay for gays and loves them some rapey abortions, then what can you do?" You fucking pander to them until your ass is in office, THEN you get to work on conservative policy. That's how politics works, which the GOP clearly doesn't understand, and frankly a lot of people on this site as well. Oh and let's not even start on social conservatives. They love to shoot themselves in the feet just as much as liberals. But keep railing against the celebrities and the cool kids instead of joining them and beating them from within. Its got us this far.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 12:29 PM (Td9D+)

476 473. Liberterians are killing us. They are funded by Dems, but get the Republicans who smoke pot to vote for them

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 12:29 PM (ZhjCA)

477

not putting on a tinfoil hat just yet, but does anyone else find it interesting that both the Romney and Obama campaigns thought that Romney was going to win Florida by about 100,000 votes, after about 70% had been counted? Why would both campaigns be saying that if Obama ends up winning by 40K?

Posted by: tofer732 at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (2zM0P)

478 #481 Sassy

I happen to like Brazillians.

*Denouncing myself*

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (BPyqV)

479 Something happened in Montana. The socialists won the open Gov race there too. Too many loons from LA moving there too

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (ZhjCA)

480

So who will we face in 2016?

I bet it's Hillary or Andrew Cuomo. Perhaps some unknown?

I think we need to prepare. NOW. Is Rubio up to the task? If so, you know the leftwing vilification machine/ media machine will kick into high gear and do what they can to destroy him. It's what they do. Right now election fatigue has set in. But we must not forget that we need to strategize for 2014 mid terms and 2016.

Will we learn the lessons of 2012? many spelled out in Ace's prior post?

I don't think the economy will do much of anything for the next 4 years except tank, We will continue, no matter what congress/senate/obama does, to sink into a bad standard of living. The only people who will be fine are the democrat's client donor sector.

Posted by: Fresh at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (O7ksG)

481 You fucking pander to them until your ass is in office, THEN you get to work on conservative policy. That's how politics works, which the GOP clearly doesn't understand, and frankly a lot of people on this site as well. Oh and let's not even start on social conservatives. They love to shoot themselves in the feet just as much as liberals. But keep railing against the celebrities and the cool kids instead of joining them and beating them from within. Its got us this far. Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 04:29 PM (Td9D+) Uh, if you pander to them, and then don't do what they want in office...how do you expect to have a winning streak? Again, I'll say this: Anyone who wants the Socons to leave will be happy with last nights results. As a Socon, I suspect that most folks are thinking screw it at this point. But that means the GOP has even a deeper voter gap to fill, and so for you practical above all else types, that is something you have to solve.

Posted by: Nate at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (i3OIF)

482 What about when they start talking about killing our kids? Rioting? Are they being 'creepy'? Posted by: uterus cannon at November 07, 2012 04:27 PM (3ZtZW) No. Democrats are above not only the rules of common decency, but the law.

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (bxiXv)

483 #484

As a Republican who smokes pot, let me let you in on a little secret: You're not even half as smart as you think you are.

Go ahead, add the Libertarian vote tallies to Romney. Tell me which states flip for him as a result?

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (WWuYG)

484 Got our A$$es handed to us by the incredible OFA machine.

Here in Iowa, a "battleground state", I got home from work to half a dozen messages on my answering machine (all political, of course, and that was a slow day). Among them there was a personal message from an OFA volunteer thanking us for voting but wanted to be sure my daughter (a registered Republican) got out and voted. They knew that me, my wife, my oldest daughter and my son had already voted but my youngest daughter had not. They had a real live person call a registered Republican to remind them to get out and vote. I find it creepy that they had all of that information but did anyone from the other side have that information? They didn't act on it if they did and I doubt that they did.

The Republicans need to learn how to create and maintain that level of operation because you can count on this being a part of the Democrats war machine forever!

There are a lot of other excuses that can be made bad candidates, media bias, voter fraud... they all contributed but in the end it was "The OFA Machine" plugged in, running in stealth mode, and shifted into high gear! We're carpet bombing from B52s and they are using laser guided ordnance from stealth fighters!

That level of intelligence and weaponry is what sealed the deal IMHO.

Posted by: Old IA Farm Boy at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (4JJs0)

485 Having spoken with three white elite libs in the past 12 hours I can tell you with certainty that they do not believe Obama is anti-Israel and they do not believe Obama would rather allow Iran to get the bomb than take military action. The GOP has utterly failed to get its message out. The media is probably the worst it has ever been -- well, then, those are the terms, and GOP failed to meet them. This has to change. I want to see a media war starting now. CBS's Benghazi interview coverup should be the opening shot.

Posted by: 2012independent at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (sQM1l)

486 @ 489

"So who will we face in 2016?"

Santa.

Who would you like to run against him?

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (zpqa2)

487 486 - I like Brazilians too. I like samba. But they are illegal nonetheless.

Posted by: Sassy at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (75Nf2)

488 Let's try to keep some perspective. A look at the electoral US map shows we still own the heartland of America. We returned Indiana and NC to the fold. Out of 160 mil votes we only lost the pres by 3 mil. And the vast majority of those from the urban "spigot" cities. Hope Boehner gets this message......

Posted by: devan at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (c+qmJ)

489 I think antimormonism was a lot stronger than we'd like to think. Posted by: LizLem at November 07, 2012 04:27 PM (8wqqE) You must mean from Democrats given that one of the top videos on Youtube is an interview of Romney giving an interview on Mormonism to a local radio station.

Posted by: Nate at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (i3OIF)

490

We lost because the majority of Americans want to be taken care of by the government daddy and get free stuff. You can't preach self sufficiency and responsibility to grifters. This isn't about religion or messaging or candidates or any other reasons.

We lost because of voter fraud. The higher ups decided Obama would be a more compliant puppet than Romney. Give Barry a little blow, weed and playtime and he's happy.

Did you see people waiting in line for two hours to vote in 2008? Was GOP enthusiasm higher than 2012? Did they keep the polls open later in 2008? Have the vast majority of pollsters and pundits, whose careers depend on accurate prognostications, ever been this off in their pre-election estimations?

Years ago a friend told me the elections were just theater. Winners had already been chosen. I didn't believe him. Now I do.

Posted by: misty at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (XaNuP)

491 "Uh, if you pander to them, and then don't do what they want in office...how do you expect to have a winning streak?" Did Obama fulfill all his promises to his liberal base? Is he the same messianic figure to the lunatic fringe as he was in 2008? Is Obama still in office Nov 7, 2012?

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (Td9D+)

492 I wish Boehner would tell Obama and the MSM , no deals until you repeal obamacare Mandate.

Make a fucking stand, and stay out of the tanning booth

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (ZhjCA)

493 @492, I guess Romney's vaunted ORCA devices didn't work so well.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (QxSug)

494

Ah the so cons.

They won't vote unless the candidate is pure perfection.

Not all - but many. That is sad. Esp because the GOP needs to come to grips with the fact that abortion is here to stay. We can promote making it rare or making it a state by state issue - like gay marriage. We can and should point out OVER AND OVER that ABORTION SHOULD NOT BE TAX PAYER FUNDED. We need to focus on a winning message. We can and should promote the fact that democrats have no problem killing full term babies.

We need to take this issue and win with it. Right now = the evil dems are using it and winning with it.

Posted by: Fresh at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (O7ksG)

495 "Let's try to keep some perspective. A look at the electoral US map shows we still own the heartland of America." Yeah, great, too bad this is 2012 and nobody gives an evergreen fuck about the heartland. The heartland doesn't produce billion dollar revenue generating blockbusters that promote conservative ideology to impressionable minds.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (Td9D+)

496 Why can't Boehner have a spine like Harry Reid and NOT cave in to the opposing party? And every time I hear Christie's voice on the radio, talking about the storm, remembering him in happy Obama warrior mode makes my blood pressure spike.

It was just the perfect storm of crap, a lot of bad things lining up to screw the conservative movement over: the weather, stupid remarks, the nonexistent war on women, legalizing pot, Gary Johnson, big bird, Obamaphone, etc. But I have no clue what to do to stop it, other than watch as Obama goes full bore on his stupid policies and outs himself finally as a marxist, and therefore we win in 2016 because he has scared all the people. Sadly I think people my age won't be all that frightened, as long as they get free stuff and their smartphone lets them stream movies, they will stay oblivious.

Posted by: LizLem at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (8wqqE)

497 Santa - santa clinton or santa cuomo?

Posted by: Fresh at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (O7ksG)

498 491. You are not worth the response Marley.

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (ZhjCA)

499 I want to see a media war starting now. CBS's Benghazi interview coverup should be the opening shot. Posted by: 2012independent at November 07, 2012 04:33 PM (sQM1l) That war has been going on since before I was born, we've just lost almost every major battle. We've got to the point where our only hope is creating infighting on the other side. Fox didn't work out so well.

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (bxiXv)

500

How about we focus on Romney getting fewer votes than McCain? That is what doomed the ticket, if they had just gotten every McLame voter to the polls we are probably talking about President-Elect Romney right now. All the happy talk about voter contact numbers was verbal mastubation on the part of the campaign/PACs. Preibus talking about how the numbers looked good in Wisconsin, they know who to target to GOTV and they lose by 6 f'n points? Expanding to PA & MI before VA & FL were locked down? Anyone else pissed as hell at this?

The Dems have the unions as their permanent GOTV infrastructure, and can be counted on even in the safe Repub states to get Dem voters to the polls and that makes a huge difference for state wide races. The RNC needs to get serious about doing the heavy lifting of creating a permanent party infrastructure for GOTV. If they can't/won't do that, then get used to this feeling because we will get to experience it again and again.

Or we can focus on the faction of the party that annoys us the most to point the finger or engage in delusional fantasies about voter fraud causing Romney to lose by 1.5M votes. That will be almost as useful.

Posted by: Chuck Bednarik at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (7pOq5)

501 damn, michigan 2.49M for O 2.09M for Romney So, GOP's 1.87M votes for governor in 2010 was only boosted by 200K in general election. That means that when general election comes through, the DNC bumped 1.3M in 2010 to 2.5M in 2012, for 1.2M extra election day votes. WTF? BTW, total voter registration in Michigan is 5M, so there were 4.58M votes cast, with only 420K left on the floor. That 420K coulda would shoulda but probably wouldn't have gone for Mitt. We are fucked. DNC GOTV is too strong.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (QxSug)

502 As a Republican who smokes pot, let me let you in on a little secret: You're not even half as smart as you think you are. Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 07, 2012 04:32 PM (WWuYG) Thank you *so* much. I *desperately* needed someone to laugh at today.

Posted by: Ben Ghazi at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (bxiXv)

503 15 What's a cob logger? -------- Oddly similar to a cow orker.

Posted by: Anachronda needs MOAR CHOCOLATE at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (NmR1a)

504 @ 505

Doesn't matter. That's the point. Perfect analogy too - you got dozens of them running around and all the kiddies line up to sit in their laps because of the red suit (D) and the toys ($).

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (zpqa2)

505 453. Very informative post, thanks. Scary as hell too. Everything goes Obama's way.

Roberts, Hurricane, 2008 Crash. How do we counter a committed communist like Jarrett with rotten luck?

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (ZhjCA)

506 fuck the heartland. That sort of stuff does not help the rest of us living on the coasts. If you all secede, then fine, it makes sense. But there's a point to be made in that the white kids that do make it out alive are turning into porn stars and Lena Dunhams. I thought Democrat party registration was down, but no. See Michigan, a "heartland" state which basically maxed out it's available voters for Obama. Romney only got an additional 200K over 2010 votes for GOP governor. out of additional 2M votes cast.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (QxSug)

507 The vote was rigged - all across the board...... Too bad we don't have real journalists to look into such things......

Posted by: izoneguy at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (oKH8p)

508 508. Well said. Biggest shock of Tuesday. 3 million than McLame

Posted by: Jack J at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (ZhjCA)

509 that means, even in "white" unhip heartland america, there is zero reprecussion for Obama for his failed first term. zero. he got every voter there.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (QxSug)

510 "fuck the heartland. That sort of stuff does not help the rest of us living on the coasts. If you all secede, then fine, it makes sense. But there's a point to be made in that the white kids that do make it out alive are turning into porn stars and Lena Dunhams. I thought Democrat party registration was down, but no. See Michigan, a "heartland" state which basically maxed out it's available voters for Obama. Romney only got an additional 200K over 2010 votes for GOP governor. out of additional 2M votes cast." Thank you for making sense. The heartland doesn't mean shit to the pretty faces and celebrity voices that indoctrinate our youth. That's the "real" America today, not some mythical conservative majority toiling in Nebraska for liberty and god-given rights.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (Td9D+)

511 I have a independent/leaning conservative friend from the Provo area, so I asked her about Mia Love and what the perception was there. "She seems like a smart person. I like some of the things she said, but her campaign ads were overwhelmingly negative. "Don't vote for Jim Mattheson because he's a Democrat and in bed with all these people you don't like!" Seriously. Every ad I heard of hers was a variation on that theme. Jim Mattheson's on the other hand, never brought her up. they brought up things he actually did, or things he was going to go back to Washington to do. I would have voted for him based solely on the difference in ads."

Posted by: FPW at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (BDNF5)

512 The Iranians get a nuke and accidently looses it somewhere around Philly or LA. Might be a little rough the next election cycle.

Posted by: jhaley at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (Nhkx3)

513 Fuck, Fuckity-fuck fuck. ..... Fuck.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (ZPrif)

514 But it looks like Martha McSally is gonna win!!

Posted by: kraki at November 07, 2012 12:51 PM (ylLDT)

515 @ Ace I agree 100% with what you wrote. Bush's concept of war is not supported as being successful in history or by most great military strategies. Simple principles: (1) The vast majority of Americans really don't care about foreign civilian deaths. I am convinced Obama could drop a nuke on Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iran and most Americans would support it. (2) If you are going to fight a ground war, it can be bloody as long as it is short. The worst kind of war is a long drawn out war, like a slow bleed. (3) All wars cost not only lives, but money and politically. We need to remember the economic health of the country can be hurt by a war that drags on. That in turn will hurt the political party that started it, and everything it stands for will also be hurt. Therefore if you are going to fight a war, it better be really worth the domestic risk. (4) When you fight a war, because your energies, money and military are tied up in it, your potential enemies and competitors, both foreign (like China and Russia) and domestic (Progressives) will take advantage of your weakness on other fronts. This means that only military campaigns of retribution, that are short but can be really violent, should be used in most cases of national defense. You can also arm foreign nations and groups whose victory would benefit America. You only do military campaigns of nation building and occupations in extreme cases like after WWII in Germany and Japan. Those were doable because both Japan and Germany were technologically sound and lived in modern world. They were also at our mercy (we ran the show) and were useful to our cause at stopping the spread of communism.

Posted by: William Eaton at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (rwioF)

516
Chris Christie walking arm-in-arm with Obama and praising his leadership ranks on the same scale as Newt Gingrich sitting on the couch with Nancy Pelosi.

Newt said it was the worst mistake of his career, and hopefully it will have the same effect for Christie.

Posted by: Doctor Fish at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (lDWQr)

517 Is this an endorsement that Ron Paul was right? I wish you had realized this in 2006 not in late 2012.

Posted by: DocMerlin at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (zz9gj)

518 as I said in other post, Obama's gay marriage loving, racially divisive, abortion on demand after birth, 8% unemployment, $16Trillion debt, Benghazi ambassador abandoning, bowing to foreign leaders, with a promise to shelve missile defense in second term to Putin resulted in nothing. This goes beyond GOTV. This is Mitt arguing only for competence. Note to 2016 candidate. Don't do that. Be bold. If we are going to have the blessed SoCons on our back as an anchor, then argue SoCon stuff, call Libya a disaster, name the failure that is Obama's fiscal first term. or cede gays and rapebortions and move on. I don't want to but either we fight or we move on. I wanted Mitt to go to the inner city and meet with black pastors because, in a hypothetical perfect world, this would make gay marriage an issue. Instead, who knows? Obama faced zero backlash for anything he did. No reagan democrats exist anymore. Straight line all the time. Or we didn't appeal to reagan democrats.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:01 PM (QxSug)

519 To repeat: **Or we didn't appeal to reagan democrats.** Did we?

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:02 PM (QxSug)

520

Obama should be embarrassed that he won this election. My opinion is that he was elected this time SOLELY because he's a "minority" and I guess people feel sorry for him not being able to be effective.

But now, instead of being the powerful political figure he was in 2008, he's a "black" man who deserves another chance, because, after all, slavery, you know. And that's a damn shame. He doesn't realize what he is in the eyes of those who voted for him. He's officially a failure who is being propped up. He's essentially become the white actor in black face for the white liberals' entertainment.

He should have lost this election. If he was white, he would have....HARD. It wouldn't have mattered what cause celebre he supported or championed. Real life would have jolted an electorate to sanity. Unfortunately, too many racist people in this nation see a minority and INSTANTLY view them as a victim. Of course, those who voted for him view themselves as victims, be them people of color, LGBT, whatever and he's one of them. Liberal whites see these people as inherently incapable, victims, and feel they have to bestow pity upon them. This was an election won by pity. If I was elected because people pitied me, I would resign.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (WQWF0)

521
2012......Rommey was a good candidate, and he ran a good campaign, but you were going to need a great campaign to unseat an incumbent President. His challengers....Perry? Santorum? Gingrich? Bachmann? Cain?

True. I remember looking at that lineup on the primary debate stage and thinking, "Is this the best we can do?" There's no way that anyone on that stage could have done better than Romney. We need a deeper bench. Or, a more seasoned, less raw bench of promising newcomers

Posted by: Ombudsman at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (HqXYa)

522 "The heartland doesn't produce billion dollar revenue generating blockbusters that promote conservative ideology to impressionable minds."

This is everybody's fault. We have not demanded better from Hollywood. We still go to their movies. We still buy their DVDs. We still watch their TV shows.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (WWuYG)

523 Dear Republicans, Here's why you lost the election: -your platform Here's why you didn't lose the election: -liebrul lamestream media -a hurricane -a governor of a blue state -voter fraud -economic recovery -the gays

Posted by: mike at November 07, 2012 01:45 PM (0Xj0H)

524 "This is everybody's fault. We have not demanded better from Hollywood. We still go to their movies. We still buy their DVDs. We still watch their TV shows." This doesn't make any sense. It is not everybody's fault, it is the fault of conservatives for ignoring Hollywood and not having a presence there. We still go to their movies, yes. That means they're doing something right. People keep giving them money, so they keep making movies. Are you going to convince the now-majority left to stop paying for them because they have icky liberal ideas? Fail. Conservatives don't try to beat the machine at their own game, they just whine about the machine and then suffer embarrassing losses at the hand of the machine. Again, fail.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 01:51 PM (Td9D+)

525 Well, once Iran gets the bomb, i am pretty sure 9-11 is gonna look like a walk in the park.

Goodbye Israel, Goodbye New York City, Goodbye Los Angeles

In the next 4 years i expect we are going to get his with a terorist attack thats going to make everything else every combined look like they were pussyfooting around

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 07, 2012 01:54 PM (ovpNn)

526

529 - decent candidate, not good - a 5 of 10, no skeletons or scandals. You're correct in citing our primary field as a major fail. The public spend the first six months of this year watching our clown circus primary. Mitt beating that field damned him with faint praise. The GOP leadership - that spent the last two years marginalizing its own grassroots - needs a thorough housecleaning. I'll be happy to see none of the previous candidates in 2016.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at November 07, 2012 01:55 PM (WLuv5)

527 Nevada voting:

Obama: 528,801, Berkely: 444,337

Romney: 462,422, Heller: 456,471

Some 80 thousand voters punched "Obama" and left the rest of the ticket blank (The senate voting box was right next to the presidential box). Less than ten thousand did the same for Romney/Heller.

That's an interesting disparity.

Posted by: Sgt. York at November 07, 2012 02:01 PM (fGatA)

528 Yeah, it was an incredibly weak field in the GOP primary. Those who didn't run were even more flawed (skeletons, sky high political negatives, or not enough experience under their belt for the 2012 cycle). Mitt was probably the best of a bad bunch.

Still doesn't fully explain why he lost an election that should have been winnable. I think it was mainly rape/abortion, the Mormon thing, and "free stuff". Mitt was right about the 47%; they just turn out to have grown to 50.3%.

Posted by: cool breeze at November 07, 2012 02:06 PM (hx/td)

529

The one thing about this election, that has me really upset is that ACA is now in for good there is no repealing it.

Come 2016 how are conservative going to win? Once that Moocher society is entrenched for 4 year's they will want more. When you offer them a prospect for a job versus free stuff. They will pick the latter.

There is no more work ethic in this country anymore. Just freeloader's.

Posted by: tony montana at November 07, 2012 02:11 PM (5S+Iv)

530

There was never was a "neocon project", and "neocon" itself is even more meaningless and false a term than most in politics.

"Maximalist" military policy? FFS. Lemme see, what was that, 6 wars we were in, or was it 24? Oh, right. Two. One a direct response to a huge attack on our cities. The second a needed and prudent removal of - by far - the worst and least manageable state actor positioned to ramp up the firepower of non-state terrorists.

Not to worry. I'm not the only one who would never again, under any circumstances, risk comfort much less safety to pursue an important American interest overseas that involved icky scary war stuff that was "hard" on the populace here and made them "war-weary". A childhood friend leaving the SEALs after several decades says yesterday's debacle is accelerating a trend of guys getting out early (a trend definitely stemming from the whining of the Bush years). It's been said before, but this electorate (incl. the "conservatives") wouldn't have lasted past Tarawa in WWII.

What intelligent person would put themselves on the line for such an unserious country? And I'm talking here about the Americans in America. Those who in no substantively meaningful historical sense can be called Americans aren't even included (i.e., the Dems and the "left").

Posted by: non-purist at November 07, 2012 03:07 PM (UViC2)

531 He intends to let them have the bomb, then hope for the best. His hope is that they drop it on Tel Aviv.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 07, 2012 03:23 PM (QupBk)

532 I've been saying for some time now that trying to occupy Afghanistan is ridiculous. We should be exterminating the buggers.

We have a military. It exists to kill our enemies. We should use it for that purpose. If Afghanistan is full of enemies, kill them. Don't pussy foot around trying to occupy territory. Wars are not won or lost based on who has claim to which piece of sand. Wars are won and lost based on who is laying on the ground dead and who is standing above them covered in enemy blood.

We possess the most powerful military war machine the world has ever seen. Why are we wasting blood and money in a faraway hell hole when we could simply exterminate the lot of them?

If we're not willing to do that, then what the hell are we fighting for in the first place?

Posted by: Lee Reynolds at November 07, 2012 03:29 PM (waa/k)

533 Chalk it up to lost opportunities but I think that we missed an opportunity in Iran when we did not form an alliance with the Chinese where we would invade Iran and then hand the place over to the Chinese army. As Ace points out it is politically possible to bomb foreigners or to invade them as long as we don't stay. The Chinese do not have the force projection ability to invade Iran if they wanted to but once we airlifted enough of their people there to take over as our people pulled out, the Chinese would be able to keep Iran as calm and peaceful as Tibet or the Uigur areas of western China.

The Chinese already have nuclear weapons so we wouldn't even have to be all that diligent in finding the Iranian supplies. Who cares if the Chinese pick up nuclear material for a few more bombs.

Posted by: Mark in Texas at November 07, 2012 03:38 PM (dGtaD)

534 A mention above about Mia's ads, one thing is that they were not plentiful. Mia Love lost as the negative campaign against her here in Utah was complete and relentless. She never had anything to respond with, with Matheson running ads back to back from him and the DNC running horrible ads showing here saying something that was out of context completely but as a three word sound byte sounded bad. Even SuperPACs were running anti-Love ads. She had very little support from the outside it seemed. It is true that the one ads or two she had wasn't all that great - she should have had some optimistic ads of her own but she was nowhere near as negative as Matheson was, even he admitted it last night saying some tripe about how no one likes negative ads but he didn't really have much of a problem using them anyways.

Posted by: arcadehero at November 07, 2012 03:57 PM (zt7SE)

535 69% of the electorate had made up their minds before September, and they had overwhelmingly decided for Obama. Whether it was the "Kill Romney" negative ad campaign when Romney had spent his primary money and wasn't able to respond, or the decline of the white electorate to a 72% share, or the fact that the most well organized Republican GOTV effort ever couldn't turn out even enough to match McCain's 2008 total, it matters little.

The Brits used to speak of their battles which were "won on the playing fields of Eton." We lost this - and probably 2008, too, despite all the hopey changey stuff - years ago when we abandoned public and higher education to be dominated and run by the left.

Our culture has been degraded ever since, slowly but inexorably, leading inevitably to where we are now.

The only course I see is NOT to block Obama, give him what he wants so he owns the results and can't blame "Republican obstruction" for the coming recession which will make 2007-09 look like a day at the beach.

We can no longer persuade the electorate on an intellectual level. They will have to convince themselves by feeling their own pain at the hands of the policies they chose. Let 'em.

As for Drew, just scroll down. It's easy enough, I've been doing it a for a very long time and still don't have carpal tunnel yet.

Posted by: Adjoran at November 07, 2012 06:40 PM (ZHQvg)

536 Derbyshire told you much of this years ago and you mocked him.

Rubble makes no trouble.

Posted by: Fred Z at November 07, 2012 07:17 PM (C7TlS)

537 Let's not forget Sean Beilat lost to a know nothing no experience inarticulate idiot oh his name is Kennedy.

Can I ask the men of Mass. something. Not the woman I'm not a woman so don't understand them but the men.

You go into the voting booth and see before you the name of a Marine hero and businessman with a great family and a Kennedy who basically is on the ballot by way of birth no qualifications.

Now remember you are a man you obviously vote for the Marine who stood and protected you put his life on the line for you while a rich spoiled kid partied? Right? Right?

Any man who voted Kennedy you disgust me you F%^KING losers!

Posted by: bobbymike at November 07, 2012 09:32 PM (wJSZn)

538 "Obama's disastrous second term"...which hasn't even started yet. What a piece of crap you are. I don't read this blog, but I'll bet you were predicting a Romney victory. I guess we know how seriously to take your prophecies.

Posted by: J at November 08, 2012 12:39 AM (X8jGN)

539 You all had a chance. You could have nominated Jon Huntsman. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Posted by: HonestObserver at November 08, 2012 01:43 PM (fEpBa)

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