1 Down goes Gabe!  Down goes Gabe!  Down goes Gabe.

2 There is a youtube video of a guy who stole a tank from a national guard armory and went on a rampage through San Diego with it (1995).

Let that sink in to your brain for a moment . . . the man stole a tank.

He stole it from a national guard armory. This man was so determined that he went into a military installation and stole a huge piece of hardware. He didnÂ’t care about the laws he broke, and he certainly didnÂ’t care about the lengths he would have to go to in order to accomplish his task. Yet somehow we are supposed to believe that although the law and regulations canÂ’t stop a man from going on a tank rampage, the law and regulations will stop someone from getting a gun and going on a shooting spree?

3 Generally when they say "gunshow loophole" they are just using totemic words for the two minute hate. Gunshow loophole. Gunshow loophole! GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE! A lot of them think that it means you can go to a gunshow and get a gun without a background check. Or if they do get it about the private sales thing, they seem to think this is how bad guys get guns - they go to a gun show, find someone who is a private seller, and surreptitiously acquire a firearm to kill someone. But mostly they don't know what it means, but they do know the NRA is against closing the "gunshow loophole" and that the NRA is a bunch of nasty terrorist right wingers so we must close the gunshow loophole.

4 Bravo, Andy, Bravo!

5

Benghazi:  Let's not rush to judgement.

Iran:  Let's not rush to judgement.

Egypt:  Let's not rush to judgement.

Keystone:  Let's not rush to judgement.

 

 

6 Speaking of 9/11, I've made this point before: What has actually thwarted terrorist plots since then was the determination of ordinary people to go down fighting. So each time it's been tried, the bastard gets the crap beaten out of him and the plot fails. Yet I've had Active Shooter training that tells me to think of ways to get out, ways to seek cover. Attacking the shooter is a last resort. Sad to say, whether we leave our gun laws the same or whether we approach the DC/Chicago limit of gun control, I think spree shootings will only get less common after two or three in a row are stopped by the nearest several adults pouncing on the guy. I'm not saying I'd be that brave. (I hope so; won't know til it happens.) I'm saying that - plus maybe a voluntary embargo on wall-to-wall coverage making the shooter the star of the show - may be the only thing that will change the calculations of the next shooter. Because cracked as they all are, they're still calculating.

7 Hello.

Something is amiss here.

8 Apparently I have been banned from reading the comments.

9 If guns cause mass shootings, why is there never a mass shooting at a gun show?

10 The nearest legal gun was twenty minutes away from Sandy Hook. How much more gun control could you want?

11 If guns cause mass shootings, why is there never a mass shooting at a gun show?>>

Or at deer camp or shooting competitions....

12 And if you think administration isn't playing along with the total gun ban ploy: http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=33315  .  I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy, but damn...

13

We could train Golden Eagles to pluck children out of harm's way if bad poeple come to the schools.

 

 

 

Oh wait, that was fake.

14 If guns cause mass shootings....Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 20, 2012 11:18 AM (81UWZ)

So these two Barrett M-82s walk into a bar and ask for a Langstrom 7 inch gangly wrench....

15 You want common sense gun control? Eliminate gun-free zones and allow people to freely exercise their fundamental right to defend themselves, their families and their communities. You've got our vote.

16 In reality, the left just wants what it has always wanted: a complete ban on guns.

Oh, not a *complete* ban.  The ruling class will still have them, or at least their bodyguards will.

Only the ruled class will be forbidden from owning them.

See also drugs.  The Biden kid, the Gore kid, the Bon Jovi kid--they can use with impugnity. Poor kids, and black kids, they get locked up.

17 I bought a Yugo AK underfolder at a gunshow. I had to fill out paperwork saying I wasn't a criminal, submit my drivers license etc., which was copied for future reference. And this was in Texas! What gunshow loophole? 99.99 etc. per cent of gun owners are law abiding citizens who purchased the guns legally. Gun ownership is about protecting family from the government, and that scares them libtards shitless! That's why they don't want military style firearms in the hands of citizen/patriots. If it was up to me every family would have the "family nukes". OK that was a "Dune" reference.

18 1st?

19
Gun control is a tight shot group within the glabella or a liberal's bleached anal orifice.

20
Yet I've had Active Shooter training that tells me to think of ways to get out, ways to seek cover.








One thing that perplexes me is the idea of a locked door being effective in defense. Something common to CT and Virginia Tech (and probably several other mass shootings) is that most of the victims were all locked in a single room or location. Escape is the best defense when armed defense is banned by law, which these schools and other institutions actively work against by instituting lock-down policies.

Personally, I don't like the idea of being a fish in a barrel.

21 I think the gun show loophole the left is having vapors over is an ordinary guy at a gun show.  A guy who paid to have a table.  Selling a gun from his collection to another ordinary local guy.

But they will never say that.  Nor will they admit to how small that market is.

22 If guns cause mass shootings, why is there never a mass shooting at a gun show?>>

Or at deer camp or shooting competitions....

Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 20, 2012 11:18 AM (81UWZ)

Totally not true, there was a mass shooting of clay pigeons the other day at my gun range. (Oh that's not what you meant.)

Still Bullets were fired: Bans guns!!!Eleventy!

23 as an old Infantry/Cav Scout kinda guy & a Life Member of the NRA, i am all in favor of sensible gun control, and it only requires 5 simple steps and zero new laws:

1. Proper grip on the weapon.
2. Good sight picture, to include awareness of what is behind/near the target.
3. Breath control.
4, Gentle, steady trigger squeeze.
5. Proper recovery, with re-acquirement of sight picture and evaluation of shot placement.

repeat prn.

Molon Labe, bitches.

24 This is old.

25 Someone may have already made the point (I'm to lazy to go back and look) but not only does CT rank as a top 5 state according to the Brady campaign, it is surrounded by states with above average gun control laws. This is in contrast to DC - where gun control activists will harp about how it is impossible to control guns in the city because the city is basically an island surrounded by the loose gun laws of Virginia. Connecticut is a landlocked gun control state in this regard, and yet, here we are.

26 Here's the thing that most people don't want to face. There is no possible way to prevent something like this from happening again. Evil insane fucks who are determined to kill people will find a way. Remember, the worst school killing in the country happened before violent video games and involved a bomb. The worst mass murder involved gasoline and a match. The worst act of domestic terrorism involved a moving truck, fertilizer and oil. The worst act of terrorism against the US involved box cutters and planes. Evil wastes of DNA will do evil things. Yes, we should try to figure out who they are ahead of time and get them locked away before they kill. Yes, we should allowed people to protect themselves in situations where the police are only minutes away. But we will never, ever, ever be able to stop such atrocities entirely. There's your ray of sunshine for today.

27 As others have been saying, let all the high flying libs, including Preezy, give up their armed security and then maybe we can talk. The same applies to AGW. Give up your big cars, private jets, and mansions! Oh. And fancy food.

28 8 Apparently I have been banned from reading the comments. Posted by: RioBravo at December 20, 2012 10:11 AM (eEfYn) There's a waiting period now.

29 Isn't "common sense" a racist term?  Or is that only when applying it to government spending and budget cuts?

30 WARNING:  This School and its classrooms are under constant video surveillance by armed security personnel.  Trespassers shall be deemed to have entered the premises at their own peril.  

31 Well, "common sense" and "gun control" repel one another like opposite poles of a magnet so the very phrase is loaded. So to speak. Eliminate the very concept of gun free zones. Arm selected teachers. Learn to carry safely and effectively where possible. And get out of the places that won't let you protect yourself if you can.

As to Bambi...it's interesting that he's sidelined this with a commission chaired by Slow Joe (snerk snort). He knows it's a loser politically, he just had to assuage the base.

32

>> these schools and other institutions actively work against by instituting lock-down policies.

 

Oh, it's worse than you think. If there's an incident in the school, proper procedure is to get kids outside into the building!!

 

 

33 Right.  And many liberals said "we're not trying to take advantage of a tragedy to advance our preconceived agenda, we just want to stop this from happening again."  Oh?  Then why is it that all of the ideas you're proposing wouldn't have stopped this particular tragedy??  Sounds an awful lot like you're just taking advantage of it to me.

34 People who panic buy and sell lose money.  CA.'s now talking about background checks and licenses to buy ammo. Only a stupidhead would wait until such a thing passed to lay in their ammo supply.  And I'll wager that the greatest result of the thing last week will only be that millions of people who were woefully underarmed and underprepared before just got better armed and prepared.

35 Isn't "common sense" a racist term? Or is that only when applying it to government spending and budget cuts? Posted by: yinzer at December 20, 2012 11:28 AM (/Mla1)

Who the fuck knows what "racist" means anymore.  Yesterday baldilocks was informed that "lobbyist" is now a term used by racists.

36

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at December 20, 2012 11:26 AM (LzlrF)

 

They shot PIGEONS!!!  Evil Nazi Gun nuts!

 

It the Clay Pigeon on the Endangered List?  Whats its normal habitat?

37 Well said, atc. We will never be able to fully rid ourselves of evil. In fact, evil flourishes all over the globe.

38

Why is it whenever a proposal is described as "common sense" it is almost always devoid of any sense at all?

 

Come to think of that, I think we can establish a corrolary to Godwin's law (the one that says that first person in an argument to call the other a Nazi is a loser). Jollyroger's law: If someone calls something "common sense" its bullshit on its face and the speaker knows it.  

39 Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 20, 2012 11:25 AM (TIIx5)

1. Run
2. Hide
3. Fight

Or, if you have big balls like Dawn Hochsprung, charge at the bad guy.

I am going to try like hell to remember her name and forget the bedwetting little ponce who perpetrated this evil.

40 Military-style weapons includes the 1911... how reasonable is that?

41 Common sense gun control: • A stable firing position in which the gun hand is supported by a substantial, immobile object, or by the non-firing hand, will increase the likelihood of first-round hits. • The trigger should be positioned on the middle of the pad of the index finger, not in the crook of the finger joint. • The trigger finger should *press* directly backward on the trigger - your finger should not curl in a "come here" gesture. This will reduce the incidence of "pulled" shots to the right i you're right handed, or vice versa.

42 What is the velocity of a clay pigeon?

43 I have a few ideas for school security, which I can't believe aren't already in common use.


1) electronic key access to the bldg. Student swipes a card or key fob against a sensor and the door opens. We have this at my office bldg and I'm sure many of you do too. All doors open from the inside.

2) video surveillance at all entrances. Again, we have this where I work. One security guard can watch all the entrances all the time.

3) a security guard who walks the halls and grounds while class is in session. He is armed.

4) 911 alarms throughout the bldg, just as fire alarms are. Big Red Button on the wall in every hall. Anybody can press it and the call automatically goes out to emergency services.

44 I am going to try like hell to remember her name and forget the bedwetting little ponce who perpetrated this evil. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 20, 2012 11:31 AM (GsoHv)

Vicki Soto too.

45 WARNING: This School and its classrooms are under constant video surveillance by armed security personnel. Trespassers shall be deemed to have entered the premises at their own peril. Instead of hiring a lazy lump with a badge, there are a lot of soon-to-be ex-military who would be good teachers. I'm jes' sayin'.

46 Buzzsaw - Not to piss in your cheerios too much, but there has been a "mass shooting" at a deer camp. Mr. Chai Vang of Wisconsin ended up shooting 8 people in a dispute over a deer stand. That is why I'm always armed when I go hunting.

47

We will never be able to fully rid ourselves of evil. In fact, evil flourishes all over the globe.

 

That's only because we haven't had the right people in charge yet!  And religion!

 

*blink blink*

48 I was talking to a friend last night who knows a guy who just went out and bought 5 AR's.  After the panic dies down what's he gonna do with 'em?  Probably become a recreational shooter would be my bet.  Gunbanners WAY overplayed their hands with this incident.  I'm glad-

49 Instead of hiring a lazy lump with a badge, there are a lot of soon-to-be ex-military who would be good teachers. I'm jes' sayin'.

Posted by: t-bird at December 20, 2012 11:32 AM (FcR7P)

 

But they don't have degrees in Educaaaaaaaaation!

50 The trigger finger should *press* directly backward on the trigger - your finger should not curl in a "come here" gesture. This will reduce the incidence of "pulled" shots to the right i you're right handed, or vice versa. Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 20, 2012 11:31 AM (g5jxH

Breath control!  Where's the breath control??

Back to OSUT for you.

51 What is the velocity of a clay pigeon?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 20, 2012 11:31 AM (sbV1u)

 

And can it carry a coconut?

52 Posted by: PETA idiot at December 20, 2012 11:31 AM (lZBBB)
I know you're socking for humor, but still, it's natural habitat is this slightly orange area on this map:
http://goo.gl/maps/njPZ4

(Yes, so much shooting happens there the debris shows up on a satellite image.

53 :::What is the velocity of a clay pigeon?::: African or European?

54 The best deterrent against that U.N. gun law is millions more weapons in million more American hands.  Obama just acheived that- so he did acheive SOMETHING

55

Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 20, 2012 11:30 AM (sbV1u)

 

Hmmm..... some terms.... like Military Intelligence... become Oxymorons through USE and TIME...

 

I hereby officialy submit TWO new entrees to be considered Oxymorons in the future...

 

Small Government Politician.... because rhetoric aside, there are none...

 

And sadly, more germain to your comment.... Common Sense... because Sense is no longer Common...

56 Oh, it's worse than you think. If there's an incident in the school, proper procedure is to get kids outside into the building!!

Posted by: Mama AJ at December 20, 2012 11:28 AM (SUKHu)

This reminds me of Blackadder episode "Captain Cook" in which Leftenant George asks what he should do if he treads on a mine, to which Captain Blackadder replies:

"Well Leftenant, normal procedure is to jump three hundred feet into the air and scatter yourself over a wide area. " 

57 It hasn't got shit to do with common sense. It has got to do with pushing the totalitarian/socialist agenda. And thats all it has to do with. To give in an inch is to submit to same. Fuck that to hell.

58 Rand Paul taking on Jhn McCain. Email: Dear Jonna, Indefinite detention of American citizens is back. Just yesterday Senator John McCain's conference committee stripped the amendment that protects American citizens against indefinite detention out of the NDAA. And final passage of the bill will be voted on TODAY. If the statists succeed in passing the NDAA, the federal government will be given the authority to lock up Americans and throw away the key for another year. That's why it's vital you call your U.S. Senators IMMEDIATELY and DEMAND they oppose the NDAA. You can reach your Senators at (202) 224-3121. And while you're at it, give Senator McCain a call at (202) 224-2235. Tell him our Bill of Rights is not something that can be cherry-picked at his convenience - and demand he stop shredding our Constitution. When I entered the U.S. Senate, I took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. And an oath to God is something I take seriously. For this reason, I will strongly oppose passage of the NDAA today when it comes up for a vote. But I can't win this fight without your support. So please call your U.S. Senators right away and demand they vote against the NDAA. In Liberty, Rand Paul

59 CA. State Teachers' Retirement System owns 6% of Bushmaster.  And it's no doubt the best-performing part of the portfolio.

60 "Down goes Gabe!" So what, is Malor one of those "Common Sense Gun Control" types or something? I mean, I know he's on the "we lost the Class War" train, but I don't recall seeing AoSHQ's own stealth lib jump on the incremental gun ban train yet. Then again, I usually don't read Malor's posts anymore.

61 What is the velocity of a clay pigeon?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 20, 2012 11:31 AM (sbV1u)

African or European?

62 (Yes, so much shooting happens there the debris shows up on a satellite image.

That's pretty cool.

63 ::;Breath control! Where's the breath control??::: Not applicable. I giggle when I shoot.

64 Linked on Drudge:  Latin Americans are the happiest people on the planet.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/65curg

65 42 What is the velocity of a clay pigeon?  
 

Posted by: Sean Bannion at December 20, 2012 11:31 AM (sbV1u)

 

 

 

Depends on how hungover I am.... LOL

66 The WaPo stumbles on this recent "trend (?)"...

Over that span, the percentage of households with guns dropped from more than half in 1977 to just more than 30 percent in 2010. Gallup, meanwhile, shows a similar drop — though it found 41 percent of households still had guns as of 2010.

But then something happened in 2011. Gun ownership spiked to its highest level since 1994 — 47 percent.

The people who suddenly had more guns? Not the white males, the Southerners, and the Republicans most associated with guns. Instead they were mostly Democrats, women, and people in every region but the South.

The irony .. oh, the irony of it all.

67 In reality, the left just wants what it has always wanted: a complete ban on guns. The 2nd Amendment is my hill to die on. Because, as a previous poster so eloquently stated, "If it isn't, the government WILL decide what ditch you DIE in".

68

Clearly, Adam Lanza should have gotten a background check after killing his mother before stealing her guns. I think that's common sense gun reform we can all support, unless you're in favor of allowing any old random crazy to steal his dead mother's guns.

 

69
Yep.   It should be all non-incarcerated persons over 18 allowed to conceal carry upon their choosing.  No fees, no tests, no licensing, no bs.

Or, ya know, make criminals of everybody.

70 Not applicable. I giggle when I shoot.Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 20, 2012 11:38 AM (g5jxH)

Huh.  New technique?

I only giggle when the round impacts the target.

Usually like a little girl....

71 64 Why not? they enjoy the protection of the U.S. without paying for it.

72

So what, is Malor one of those "Common Sense Gun Control" types or something?

 

It was in reference to the temporary post stomping.  Andy beat him  like a rented mule, then chose to be merciful.

73 Oh, it's worse than you think. If there's an incident in the school, proper procedure is to get kids outside into the building!!>>

At work my old office was in a windowless corner of the basement and the procedure during a tornado was for me to flee that area to a hallway with windows. I assumed this was to make finding the bodies easier if a tornado actually hit hit building since they would all be in one place. Which just means all large bureaucracies have stupid emergency plans.

Oh and no cracks about my Gray Swingline stapler.

74 One thing that perplexes me is the idea of a locked door being effective in defense. Something common to CT and Virginia Tech (and probably several other mass shootings) is that most of the victims were all locked in a single room or location. This is incredibly morbid but I was pondering the other day that if someone wanted to take out an entire school, the thing to do is to show up with a gun to get the lock down started, then pour out several tanks of kerosene in the hallways and woooooosh. Maybe the sprinklers will work. Maybe not. Meanwhile, all the kids are locked into rooms and can't get out. Obviously, we need to regulate flammable liquids and matches.

75 Are we gonna make all guys get a permit before they used their own "guns"?

76 Is it broke?

77 Generally when they say "gunshow loophole" they are just using totemic words for the two minute hate. Gunshow loophole. Gunshow loophole! GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE! A lot of them think that it means you can go to a gunshow and get a gun without a background check. Or if they do get it about the private sales thing, they seem to think this is how bad guys get guns - they go to a gun show, find someone who is a private seller, and surreptitiously acquire a firearm to kill someone. But mostly they don't know what it means, but they do know the NRA is against closing the "gunshow loophole" and that the NRA is a bunch of nasty terrorist right wingers so we must close the gunshow loophole.

78 common sense gun laws? no such thing.....

79

Read the second comment here:

 

http://tinyurl.com/dylunvc

 

about school lockdowns and one parent's disagreement.

80 all gun laws are knee jerk reactions that solve nothing....it's just about gun grabbing

81 Obviously, we need to regulate flammable liquids and matches. **** Not good enough. Stop it at its root. Ban thought. Kill free-thinking. Destroy imagination.

82 common sense gun laws? no such thing.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at December 20, 2012 11:41 AM (GVxQo)

I dunno, the Swiss have a pretty common sense gun law.

83 @HeatherRadish,
Bing has better images (based on flyovers rather than satellite). It's a pretty popular gun range because it costs like $4 for a 25 pigeon round.
http://binged.it/12CnrzC (You may have to zoom in.)

84 Outlaw fire

85 I'm OK with any Gun Laws they come up with as long as they are OK with my law that says as soon as a COngressman or Senator says something really really stupid they get kicked out of Congress for ever and ever.

86 A comment stolen from Lucianne and VFR.

"We protect our mayors with men with guns; we protect our governors with men with guns; we protect the House and the Senate and the President, with men with guns; we protect our courts, our banks, our jewelry stores, our sports arenas, and our pawn shops, all with men with guns.

However, our most precious possessions, our children, we protect with a piece of paper and a sign (the Gun Free Zone law).

Now, in response to the slaughter of 20 innocents, we propose to punish those (gun owners) who are innocent, and protect our most cherished possession, our children, with a another piece of paper (a new gun law). "

87

>>At work my old office was in a windowless corner of the basement and the procedure during a tornado was for me to flee that area to a hallway with windows.

 

Keep safe, people. And never assume the people in charge of the rules are right.

88

You want common sense gun control? Eliminate gun-free zones and allow people to freely exercise their fundamental right to defend themselves, their families and their communities.

 

Except the great stumbling block is that people no longer know or care what their fundamental rights are.  Not to start a flame war, but - gay marriage is not a fundamental right.  Neither is abortion.  But both (among others) have been coopted and corrupted by the left to such an extent that people will eagerly call for a true fundamental right - the right to self-preservation - to be eliminated while insisting that an entirely specious "right" - abortion - must be preserved.

 

You won't have common sense gun control until you have a populace who understand and respect their Constitutional liberties.  And we don't (and, IMO, will never again) have that populace.  We are the fundamentally trivial Obamaphone Nation.

89 I propose kid-free schools. All we need to do is put a few drugs in the drinking water. Boom! Problem solved.

90 Obviously, we need to regulate flammable liquids and matches.

Hrm, you're more fiendish than I am.  I was just going to fuck with the furnace system.  There's supposed to be an earth-shattering KABOOM, but CO could do the trick as well.

Of course, neither of us get the thrill of seeing the seeing the terror in the moppets' eyes as we dispatch them. That seems to be the whole point of using a rifle.

91 12 Posts of Christmas, Day 8: "Christmas at Ground Zero http://politicalhat.com/?p=845

92 http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/israel-teacher-rifle.jpg hey what about this idea

93 Let's close the wacko-nut-job loophole.  Ban wacko-nut-jobs!

94 Posted by: lowandslow at December 20, 2012 11:44 AM (GZitp) I'm gonna email that out if you don't mind.

95 Joe Biden Sept, 08

In an out-of-nowhere attempt to re-assure a southwestern Virginia labor crowd about gun owners’ rights, Biden — who regularly scores "F" ratings from the National Rifle Association — warned Obama that if "he tries to fool with my Beretta, he’s got a problem."

"I guarantee you Barack Obama ainÂ’t taking my shotguns, so donÂ’t buy that malarkey," Biden said Saturday at the United Mine Workers of AmericaÂ’s annual fish fry in Castlewood, Virginia. "DonÂ’t buy that malarkey. TheyÂ’re going to start peddling that to you."

Biden told the crowd that he himself is a gun owner. "I got two," Biden said, "if he tries to fool with my Beretta, heÂ’s got a problem. I like that little over and under, you know? IÂ’m not bad with it. So give me a break. Give me a break."

96 The same voices calling to disarm the public are the ones who want to let the criminals out of jail early

97 I'm digging around at Senate.gov and trying to find the piece of legislation that Paul is fighting McCain about. Put me some knowledge.

98

Look, banning    guns doesn't work.   Without guns, there's always knives.  Without knives there's always clubs.   Without clubs there's always bare hands.

 

We have to ban     hands.   I recommend forced amputation.   It's the only way to be sure.

99 I'll consider gun control laws when U.S. Senators, Reps, and SCOTUS appointees enact term limits. And not a moment before.

100 Typical lib tactics. Chip away at our rights until they are all gone and the society collapses, as we are seeing now as a result of their "wins." I'm proud to be the party of NO, although, not saying, exactly, that I am from the GOP anymore. If they do not prove themselves, they've lost me for good.

101 I will willingly give up my personal Guns... just as soon as anyone protecting the White House does the same...

102 Chicago is a gun-free zone and look at the carnage that goes on there every week. By the way, what did State Senator, then US Senator Obama do about his home-town murder rate? Seems a question the MFM would have asked in 2007-8. Did he offer up any solutions, or just draw a paycheck and vote Present?

103 http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/israel-teacher-rifle.jpg

hey what about this idea

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 20, 2012 11:47 AM (79ueO)

On a web search for this topic I noticed one of the returns has some Liberal asswipe claiming that Israeli schools do not do this.  What is the truth? Does anyone know?

104 Outlaw insanity.  Then only outlaws will have insanity.


Wait....

105 I'm OK with any Gun Laws they come up with as long as they are OK with my law that says as soon as a COngressman or Senator says something really really stupid they get kicked out of Congress for ever and ever. Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 20, 2012 11:43 AM (79ueO) Do I get to choose what counts as something really really stupid? Because I would excel at that.

106 Or at deer camp or shooting competitions....

Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 20, 2012 11:18 AM (81UWZ)

 

Someone may have noted this already but don't use the deer camp example.

 

Chai Vang may you rot in hell.

107

I'm OK with any Gun Laws they come up with as long as they are OK with my law that says as soon as a COngressman or Senator says something really really stupid they get kicked out of Congress for ever and ever.

 

 

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 20, 2012 11:43 AM (79ueO)

 

This would definitely lead to some much needed turnover, since anyone who says, "My good friend across the aisle," would automatically get bounced.

108 Given the ACLU's role in all this, I'm calling for common sense lawyer control.

109

Step 1:  Find pretext(s) for taking guns away from public.

Step 2:  Take guns away from public.

Step 3:  Drop Left Wing Policy Bombs on public.

Step 4:  Maim, jail, kill unarmed public that dares to express even the slightest objection to Step 3. 

110 Given the ACLU's role in all this, I'm calling for common sense lawyer control.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 20, 2012 11:53 AM (xSegX)

 

On this account, Shakespeare had his priorities straight.

111 On a web search for this topic I noticed one of the returns has some Liberal asswipe claiming that Israeli schools do not do this. What is the truth? Does anyone know? Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 20, 2012 11:50 AM (bb5+k) On the West Bank it is routine. In Israel proper it is less visible and not required but some teachers, as do many ordinary citizens do, are packing.

112

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 20, 2012 11:49 AM (4df7R)

 

Funny.... I have NO Fear of anyone with a blade... as I compete on a National Level in Elizabethan Fencing....

 

But Guns, in the hands of a Novice... scare the crap out of me... as it IS the Great Equalizer as far as point blank violence is concerned....

113 "I'm gonna email that out if you don't mind."

What do I care? As I said, I stole it myself.

114

115 On this account, Shakespeare had his priorities straight. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 20, 2012 11:53 AM (4df7R) I get to shoot back, right?

116 So that's how that works.

117 As long as liberals walk the earth, there is no gun control that could be considered "common sense". It's like asking people to accept "common sense" limitations on the ability to kill poisonous snakes.

118 Yeah I wrote (which if you thought I wasn't perpetually full of sh*t you've already read) about gun technology and homicide rates. Gun technology stops advancing (at least at the pace that it had been) in the 1940's. The US has its lowest homicide rate in its history in 1957. While no significant advance in weapons technology is marked from the mid 40's until today, AND homicide rates reached their lowest point in 1957, an otherwise unexplained rise in homicide rates starts in 1962 and does not peak until 1980.

Whatever changed making murder more common. It wasn't the guns.

119

Posted by: eleven at December 20, 2012 11:54 AM (KXm42)

 

 

*suspicious look*   You're looking awfully proud of   yourself, eleven.  What did you   do?

120

t-bird ...

actually the nearest legal gun was 1.6 miles away ...  thats the distance between the police station and the school ...  1.6 miles ...  took them 20 minutes to get on scene ...  Did they walk ?

121 the police station is 1.6 miles away from the school ...  20 minutes to respond ...

122 A question: Wheres the limit? That is to say, if the second amendment exists to protect citizens from social breakdown, foreign invasion, and/or a tyrannical government (which I believe it does) is there a line to be drawn? Why should the government have a monopoly on automatic weapons, hand grenades, RPGs, etc.? Nukes? I was asked this and had no good answer, except that a few million private citizens with just semiautomatic and single-shot rifles and pistols is enough of a deterrent.

123 I get to shoot back, right?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Burn you all to ashes, SMOD at December 20, 2012 11:55 AM (VtjlW)

 

You wouldn't be at risk, AtC.  I call it the, "Why?  Because REASONS" Exemption clause.

124 I saw a media puff piece where they interpreted the Constitution (2nd amendment) to mean we can only have muskets. I had to laugh. If that's true then 'Gun Grabby McFlap ears" and the media need to talk like this.. "Verily, Verily I say unto ye, I beseech thee , to grant me a boon, to grabbeth all ye arms. Woe unto ye, all who holdeth forth arms!" OK, my middle english needs a bit of work.

125

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 20, 2012 11:50 AM (bb5+k)

 

Well... Every normal citizen spends time in the military.... and then are in the Reserves... it is NORMAL to see someone in shorts, with a Gallil over their shoulder, at a Taxi Stand, or moving through a public place.... or at least it was when I was there in the early 80's...

126

>> So what, is Malor one of those "Common Sense Gun Control" types or something?

Not at all, he's a full supporter of the 2nd Amendment

127
In bizzaro-world:

Two people meet in a dark alley, whispering begins:

'Whata U need?'
"A Saturday Night Special and Ammo"
'You got cash?'
"yep"
'ok, fill out this form for your background check'
"Sure, no problem"

128 So what is the GOP position on gun control? or the "base's" position? Is any type of gun control/regulation acceptable? I honestly can't tell what "our" position is. I ask because during the post-election crapfest there were quite a few calls for "extremist" pro-lifers to STFU and face the facts of public opinion, irrespective of the principles involved. As supportive and sympathetic as I am to concerns about threats to the 2nd amendment, it has been sort of bothering me that pro-lifers have been called extremists (here and elsewhere) and told to not push their issue for the good of the Party, but I haven't really seen that on guns.

129 You wouldn't be at risk, AtC. I call it the, "Why? Because REASONS" Exemption clause. Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 20, 2012 11:56 AM (4df7R) Ahhhh the Because Reasons Exemption. I am familiar with it myself.

130 Bing has better images (based on flyovers rather than satellite). It's a pretty popular gun range because it costs like $4 for a 25 pigeon round. We had a bird's-eye view but, uhh, we kept losing cameras.

131 It's like asking people to accept "common sense" limitations on the ability to kill poisonous snakes.

Hi there.  Don't touch the Crotalus willardi obscurus.

132 Ummmm.......Just pickin n grinnin.

133 >>>We have to ban hands. I recommend forced amputation. It's the only way to be sure.

F*king wingnut. Folks can get stomped to death. What are you doing to end the killing!?!?!? Just hands!? Not even close to far enough.

134 "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." -Thomas Jefferson

135 Posted by: Judge_Roy_bean at December 20, 2012 11:56 AM (XPw+D)

My counter-argument to the "muskets" fallacy is that if that is the case then Freedom of the Press is limited to manual printing presses and town criers.  Because obviously the Founders could not have envisioned radio, TV, and the internet.

136 A Planet for Texans by H. Beam Piper
If a politician in the course of being a politician does something that offends a constituent, like try to enact an income tax, the constituent has a Constitutional duty to stop the politician.  Means of stopping such can be as extreme as using a gun on said politician.  If such an event happens, then the constituent is arrested and tried in a court of law.  If the judges rule the actions justified the constituent is freed.

137 That is why I'm always armed when I go hunting. I'm sure there's another reason there. Let me think a while, I'm sure it will come to me... /here's your sign

138 Well... Every normal citizen spends time in the military.... and then are in the Reserves... it is NORMAL to see someone in shorts, with a Gallil over their shoulder, at a Taxi Stand, or moving through a public place.... or at least it was when I was there in the early 80's... Posted by: Romeo13, at December 20, 2012 11:57 AM (lZBBB) Yes it's still largely the same. And if you live in a border town or Kibbutz it is ubiquitous

139

>>>We have to ban hands. I recommend forced amputation. It's the only way to be sure.

F*king wingnut. Folks can get stomped to death. What are you doing to end the killing!?!?!? Just hands!? Not even close to far enough.

 

Orbit.  Nuke.  Newsletter.  It's the only way to be sure.

140 >My counter-argument to the "muskets" fallacy is that if that is the case then Freedom of the Press is limited to manual printing presses and town criers. Because obviously the Founders could not have envisioned radio, TV, and the internet.

Posted by: Country Singer at December 20, 2012 11:59 AM (L8r/r)

I am so stealing this

141

You can't have common sense when it is dictated by a braying jackass.

142 America needs common sense restrictions on politicians: term limits, and any crime committed while holding office is a felony

143 We have to ban hands. I recommend forced amputation. It's the only way to be sure.

 

 

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 20, 2012 11:49 AM (4df7R)

 

 

Cut a bit higher? and you TRULY have a DIS-ARMED populace...

144
On the West Bank it is routine. In Israel proper it is less visible and not required but some teachers, as do many ordinary citizens do, are packing.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 20, 2012 11:54 AM (79ueO)

Thanks for that. I like to back up my assertions with references.

145 You hands have my hands when you pry them from my cold dead hands.



Wait.....

146 Folks can get stomped to death.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at December 20, 2012 11:58 AM (0q2P7)

That happens here whenever AtC gets in a lather.

147 All guns can be used to assault people. Ipso facto, cogito ergo sum, all guns are assault weapons.

148 103 - yes, its true.  i lived in Israel in the 1980's.  I clipped a newpaper report once, when i was there, that read:  "School children on a field trip to XXX were attacked by armed terrorists, who were driven away when the teachers returned fire...."

149 F*king wingnut. Folks can get stomped to death. What are you doing to end the killing!?!?!? Just hands!? Not even close to far enough.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at December 20, 2012 11:58 AM (0q2P7)

 

 

You're right!   I'm ashamed at my lack of foresight!   Quadruple amputation AND forced use of a neck immobilizer to prevent potentially injurious headbutting.   

 

Shit, someone could develop a    tolerance for poison, ingest some, then vomit poison into someone else's food or drink.  

 

When will the madness end!   FOR THE CHILDREN!

150 You know what we also need?

Common sense speech control.

Common sense press control.  Wait...

151 Cut a bit higher? and you TRULY have a DIS-ARMED populace...

 

Posted by: Shecky Rimshot... try the Veal..

 

I just flew in from a weekend of baby seal clubbing, and boy are my arms tired!

152 Wish more manufacturers would go the Barrett route. ---------- Throughout history, when police work was contaminated with innuendos, fabrications and fear tactics, the society was doomed. Now, I must ask you how many murders can you report that were committed in your jurisdiction with a .50-caliber rifle? How many robberies? How many .50-caliber rifles have you found at crime scenes? The answers should be the true facts; anything else is the destroyer of our society, our great republic. It is the law. Barrett Firearms Manufacturing cannot sell our products to those who break the law even though the officials responsible may not yet be indicted. Barrett will not support a state or local government that is obviously in violation of the United States Constitution thereby jeopardizing the safety and security of its citizens. Be aware there are more companies that will respect this position. If Hawaii or any state bans the sale of the .50-caliber rifle, we will immediately stop the sale and service of all Barrett products to that stateÂ’s government agencies. We will also welcome all small arms manufacturers to take the same action. Sincerely, Ronnie G. Barrett President

153 When Obama gives something to the Vice Retard to do so he can go play golf, I'm pretty sure we don't have to worry about it anymore.

154 I seem to recall that a few years ago (under Bush, PBUH), there were widespread concerns about returning Iraq war veterans committing this kind of violence...when Iraq was Bush's war. In reality, these mass shootings have solely been the work of scrawny, virginal, narcissistic, nihilistic pubes seeking fame...which is given to them freely by the likes of CNN.

155 Common sense speech control.

We're gonna get that along with the gun control.

156 "Yes it's still largely the same. And if you live in a border town or Kibbutz it is ubiquitous"

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 20, 2012 12:00 PM (79ueO)

Last time I was in Israel an old (and I mean ancient) family friend took me on a nice walk through the old city of Jerusalem.

He had a Browning Hi-Power on his hip.

I loved it.

157 Ummmm.......Just pickin n grinnin.

Posted by: eleven at December 20, 2012 11:58 AM (KXm42)

 

*still squinting*   Well I'm watching you, buster. 

 

*points at eyes*

 

*points at eleven*

 

Watching.   You. 

158
Whatever changed making murder more common. It wasn't the guns.

Posted by: Mike the Moose is Shrugging at December 20, 2012 11:55 AM (0q2P7)

The 24th amendment caused Lyndon Johnson to advance the War on Poverty.  It was the War on Poverty that caused massive single parent families, which in turn caused massive numbers of fatherless male children who responded to their "Lord of the Flies" environment by becoming vicious.

There are other factors at work, but the above are by far the most significant.

159 Thanks for that. I like to back up my assertions with references. Posted by: DiogenesLamp at December 20, 2012 12:01 PM (bb5+k) Don't get me wrong. The schools are not teaming with teachers walking around with visible guns, but I am sure every school has one or 2. In addition some schools do have armed guards. In addition as Romeo13 said, in Israel you see Soldiers with guns all over the place

160 Last time I was in Israel an old (and I mean ancient) family friend took me on a nice walk through the old city of Jerusalem. He had a Browning Hi-Power on his hip. I loved it. Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 20, 2012 12:04 PM (GsoHv) Yup and I bet he knew how to use it also

161 We have to ban hands. Ah, see, but you're not going far enough. Don't forget armless Olympic-class archer Matt Stutzman, who uses his feet. And no, I'm not trying to spark a longbow-crossbow argument.

162 Bill OÂ’Reilly Threatens US Boycott of Mexico If Jailed US Marine Not Released By Christmas (Video) good for him I already do, but good for him. gatewaypundit has the video

163 No offense to the substitute bloggers, but this place really needs ace to be AoSHQ. You never miss it till it's gone.

164 While the national discussion raged last night, the last of my current class of Boy Scouts fired their final qualifying groups for the Rifle merit badge. Including one wiggly little sonofagun with a big mouth who can't sit still, his former cubmaster warned me about, and the school psychologists want to drug. I finally settled his hyper ass down and got him to breathe slow and regular, and he's putting three in the same hole at fifty feet.

Mom was there to watch and she was astounded. Yes, God damn it to hell, I am a rifle coach, and I am pretty proud of it. Come and get me, coppers.

165

Be aware there are more companies that will respect this position. If Hawaii or any state bans the sale of the .50-caliber rifle, we will immediately stop the sale and service of all Barrett products to that stateÂ’s government agencies. We will also welcome all small arms manufacturers to take the same action.

 

LOVE IT.

166 Biden told the crowd that he himself is a gun owner. "I got two," Biden said, "if he tries to fool with my Beretta, heÂ’s got a problem. I like that little over and under, you know?
2008


for those liberals out there.

Why did you vote for a right wing nut, bitterly clinging to his guns?

Biden ,"He's got a problem?"
  oh and racist for saying He wants to hold onto his rights?

167 As supportive and sympathetic as I am to concerns about threats to the 2nd amendment, it has been sort of bothering me that pro-lifers have been called extremists (here and elsewhere) and told to not push their issue for the good of the Party, but I haven't really seen that on guns.

If a particularly stupid Republican Senate candidate made an extremist comment about guns on the campaign trail, many of us would call him out for that, too.

But I'm not aware of any candidates suggesting we legalize private ownership of Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles or lowering the age limit for firearms purchases to 12 years old.

168 I was asked this and had no good answer, except that a few million private citizens with just semiautomatic and single-shot rifles and pistols is enough of a deterrent.

Posted by: Ferb Fletcher at December 20, 2012 11:56 AM (Q8Wa9)

It used to be. Technology has advanced the art of death dealing beyond what anyone could have foreseen in 1787. 

169 Our police force parks their "free" vehicles in gun-free (school) zones.
Primarily to reduce speeding (which works).

Schools get randomly visited by police, too.  Their primary goal is to chat with the kids and maintain good relations.

I'm not really sure what simple steps we could take to make perpetrators think twice, though.  Might have to ponder that a bit.

170 While speaking of guns.  With many people traveling to visit family, that means there will be many unattended homes.

So secure those weapons.  Either put in a gun safe.  Or take them to a friend's house.  And of course, write the serial numbers down.  Lets not lose weapons this holiday season and possibly ruin another family's Christmas.

171
Made a libs head asplode this morning.


LIB:  B-b-b-but..... we HAVE to do SOMETHING that will prevent these school killings.

ME:  So..... you support home schooling now??

172 Well... Every normal citizen spends time in the military.... and then are in the Reserves... it is NORMAL to see someone in shorts, with a Gallil over their shoulder, at a Taxi Stand, or moving through a public place.... or at least it was when I was there in the early 80's...

Posted by: Romeo13, at December 20, 2012 11:57 AM (lZBBB)

I see nothing wrong with it.  It makes sense in any potentially dangerous environment. 

173 Despite their overwhelming popularity, assault weapons like the rifle used by the Sandy Hook Elementary killer are very rarely used in crimes, according to a comprehensive Congressional Research Service report on guns and gun control legislation. Citing a survey of 203,300 state and federal prisoners who were armed during the crime for which they were incarcerated, “fewer than 1 in 50, or less than 2 percent, used, carried, or possessed a semiautomatic assault weapon,” said the report. The weapons, however, are at the center of President Obama’s bid to put in place new gun control rules following the Connecticut killings last week. His effort, backed by gun-control Democrats, is expected to lead to a new proposal to ban the weapons and also crack down on gun sales throughout the nation. So I got an idea. Since it is 2% a figure obama seems to like, lets tax assault gun owners in stead of rich guys? Makes as much sense and neither really will bring in any extra money anyway

174 There are other factors at work, but the above are by far the most significant.

---

Freedom of religion became freedom from religion.

Drugs.

The general rise in freedom from personal responsibility and the idea that if you don't have something you want, somebody cheated you out of it (which I associate with socialism)..

175 I think you optimists are wrong about TFG creating a commission just so he can essentially do nothing. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention, but the shitskull is real fond of issuing EOs, or declaring the Senate in recess, or finding a way to buy that prison in IL after Congress specifically banned its purchase, and so on.
 
I think he will wait until after he is safely sworn in for his second term and then issue an EO. He's always wanted gun control, and now he can try and claim some sort of 'mandate' to DO SOMETHING. Also, this EO will involve spending lots more money that will inevitably wind up in part in some union's pockets.

176  On this account, Shakespeare had his priorities straight.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 20, 2012 11:53 AM (4df7R)


I get to shoot back, right?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Burn you all to ashes, SMOD at December 20, 2012 11:55 AM (VtjlW)

 

Yeah, you guys sure you wanna try that with me?

177 A question: Wheres the limit? That is to say, if the second amendment exists to protect citizens from social breakdown, foreign invasion, and/or a tyrannical government (which I believe it does) is there a line to be drawn? Why should the government have a monopoly on automatic weapons, hand grenades, RPGs, etc.? Nukes?

I was asked this and had no good answer, except that a few million private citizens with just semiautomatic and single-shot rifles and pistols is enough of a deterrent.

Posted by: Ferb Fletcher at December 20, 2012 11:56 AM (Q8Wa9)

You need to run over and read some of Eugene Volokh's stuff right now over at the Volokh conspiracy.  He's laid out a fairly nice limiting principle based on the idea that the second amendment is designed to "protect democracy."  So allowing Nuclear arms (for example) is counter intuitive to this because it allows a single person to upset the democracy in it's entirety simply by threatening.  However an  individual armed with any number of guns, although capable of tragedy, cannot hold the democracy hostage. (At least that's my reading of it.)

178 The whole gun show loophole is a crock.  First, all FFL 03 dealers at gun shows must conduct the background check via NICS or in some states via inspection of a firearms carry license which includes a background check.
 
If you have a C&R (Curio and Relic) 01 FFL and you sell a firearm, then you must record the sale in your bound book and still comply with all state, federal, and local laws pertaining to private sales.  Your bound book and your collection give the ATF a right to inspect transactions recorded in the book. 

Second, even if you transact a private sale without a license (which is illegal in some states) without a form 4473, you still cannot knowingly transfer a firearm to someone not eligible to have one and must still comply with all state, federal, and local laws on the purchase.  If you purchase a firearm for another ineligible to possess one, then you are a straw buyer and a criminal.  You cannot legally even "loan" a firearm to someone not eligible to have one-even for a minute at a gun range.  All of these things are laws that are currently on the books.

What this basically boils down to is that every exchange of ownership would require going to a FFL, paying a transaction fee usually from 20-30 dollars, and most importantly recording the serial number and buyer information of all guns transferred.  Coupled with a repeal of the Tiahrt amendment, this would give the ATF a complete record of all firearms transferred.  This is what the anti-gunners are after which is a list of all firearms and who has them.  Thus, private sales and transfers must go. 

The USA Story below implies that much of the homicides in the US involve criminals killing others with past criminal backgrounds. Thus, given our high incarceration rates, explains a significant portion of differences in homicide vis a vis W. European nations.   News flashes below-law breakers break the law. 

USA Today 2007 article "Criminals Target Each Other"
http://tinyurl.com/cobaoku


FYI--How ganstas get their guns-Univ of Chicago Study--Hint not gunshows
http://tinyurl.com/c46v8sa

179

Posted by: fixerupper at December 20, 2012 12:08 PM (nELVU)

 

/Golf Clap...

 

Well Played.... well played indeed!

180 In reality, these mass shootings have solely been the work of scrawny, virginal, narcissistic, nihilistic pubes seeking fame...which is given to them freely by the likes of CNN.

Yep.  The time for responsible common sense media control regulation is long overdue.

181

@175

 

EOs can't create law from whole cloth. If they could, it would be time to use our newly illegal guns for thier intended 2nd amendment purpose. Might as well disband congress while he's at it.

182 Yeah, you guys sure you wanna try that with me?

Posted by: Jollyroger at December 20, 2012 12:09 PM (t06LC)

 

See comment 123, RE: the "Why? Because REASONS" exemption.

183 Walrus, and the open covetous nature  of this administration on down.  Where it became the norm to threaten business owners /the rich! Where openly speaking  of theft!

It's absurd if it weren't so real.

184 I think he will wait until after he is safely sworn in for his second term and then issue an EO. Perceptive, Gnu. This would be a lovely thing to announce at the State of teh Union address and set the MFM hearts all aflutter and legs all atingle.

185 Hillary will consult Vince Foster regarding gun laws.....

186 In reality, these mass shootings have solely been the work of scrawny, virginal, narcissistic, nihilistic pubes seeking fame...which is given to them freely by the likes of CNN. and believe in Satan Evidently he had a web site dedicated to Satan, and devil worshiping. http://tinyurl.com/bqhycma gatewaypundit

187 Common sense speech control.

--

They're doing the best they can.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/cu63yfx

188 Why do I think Speech or trying to control the lying media would backfire on all of us?

189 Don't get me wrong. The schools are not teaming with teachers walking around with visible guns, but I am sure every school has one or 2. In addition some schools do have armed guards. In addition as Romeo13 said, in Israel you see Soldiers with guns all over the place

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 20, 2012 12:05 PM (79ueO)

 

I knew 2 or 3 teachers that had weaponry in my high school.

190 re my comment at 58, what legislation is he talking about?

191 The other thing about doing it by EO would be that there wouldn't be any dems on record as voting for it, and therefore wouldn't affect their midterm election prospects. Win win. EOs can't create law from whole cloth. Wouldn't stop TFG from trying. What is the review process on EOs? Could it go to the Burrito Supreme Court? Maybe a legal-minded Moron can fill me in.

192 "122 A question: Wheres the limit? That is to say, if the second amendment exists to protect citizens from social breakdown, foreign invasion, and/or a tyrannical government (which I believe it does) is there a line to be drawn? Why should the government have a monopoly on automatic weapons, hand grenades, RPGs, etc.? Nukes?

I was asked this and had no good answer, except that a few million private citizens with just semiautomatic and single-shot rifles and pistols is enough of a deterrent.

Posted by: Ferb Fletcher at December 20, 2012 11:56 AM (Q8Wa9)"

Here are my thoughts, for what they're worth. I would draw the line at nukes because it is extremely unlikely that the government would nuke its own citizens. Perhaps in a scenario in which there was a breakaway state, but even then, a nuke would be completely useless because of the amount of collateral damage. The only worthwhile target for a nuke would be a city and, as we know, cities tend to favor big government.

You could use similar reasoning to find out which other government weapons would likely get used in some sort of scenario in which citizens would be fighting it off to protect their rights. I think you'd also need to have some sort of calculation in there around what the citizens to government agents ratio would be and how that would impact the effectiveness of the fight against the imposition of tyranny. If there are 5 citizens for every government agent, you don't necessarily need the same amount of firepower in each citizen's hands to achieve the objective of stopping the government agents. Could 5 guys with peashooters in a relatively entrenched defensive position hold off 1 federal agent armed with an automatic? Sure because out of the 5, one is likely to at least wound the agent. What I think you don't want to enable is some kind of "Robocop" scenario where 1 agent of the government can essentially mow down an entire group of people trying to protect their Constitutional rights. Hence, the line will shift as firepower shifts. You just have to have the cost-benefit analysis favor the government not trying to usurp people's rights.

One way of making the analysis more rigorous might be to do a study of successful guerilla war movements around the globe to quantify the ratio of killing capability between the regular troops and the guerilla troops. Clearly, the latter will not have a firepower advantage, but will have made use of other advantages in addition to whatever firepower they did have. You might be able to find the dividing line between successful movements to inhibit tyranny and unsuccessful ones on that basis and they say that's the minimum amount of firepower an individual should be able to obtain consistent with the idea that the 2nd Amendment is there for that purpose.

193 182 Yeah, you guys sure you wanna try that with me?
Posted by: Jollyroger at December 20, 2012 12:09 PM (t06LC)

See comment 123, RE: the "Why? Because REASONS" exemption.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit at December 20, 2012 12:11 PM (4df7R)

 

Oh, sorry missed that one (slowly uncocks hammer under the table...)

194 Monty post up.

195 @177, thanks. Makes sense. I'll check it out.

196 Why do I think Speech or trying to control the lying media would backfire on all of us?

Posted by: ette at December 20, 2012 12:15 PM (nqBYe)

As guns in the hands of evil people need to be matched by guns in the hands of good people, so do microphones in the hands of evil people need to be matched by microphones in the hands of good people.

197 new thread, folks

198 Monty post up. DOOM Returns?

199 "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." -Thomas Jefferson

Posted by: DAve at December 20, 2012 11:59 AM (XDC0v)

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

 

Too late.

200

@191

 

Yes, it would be a Supreme Court question. I agree it wouldn't stop him from trying, but such a move would probably alienate a lot of people (think FDR in the "court packing plan") and be seen as overreach.

I also think he would know that it would be struck down, but pending review he could gain points on his base. I really think he wants to have this argument, just not now. He has bigger fish to fry.

 

Manchin and Reid are interesting. Reid hasn't fully supported, and Manchin backed off Monday's comments. I think dems are less united than Rs on this issue.

201 I read common sense gun control as ass-less chaps. Why put on a garment that doesn't even cover your naughty bits?

202 The whole gun show loophole is a crock. First, all FFL 03 dealers at gun shows must conduct the background check via NICS or in some states via inspection of a firearms carry license which includes a background check.

To be fair, I have been to gun shows where I found private sale guns available.  As in one or two guns amongst hundreds of tables and thousands of firearms.

Could a prohibited person buy one without a background check?  Sure- the seller would have no way of knowing if someone had a felony on their record.  There's no mechanism for private sellers to voluntarily use NICS to run a background check.

As a source of guns for the criminal element, a gun show is a pretty poor choice though.  How many criminals are going to wait a month for the next gun show to roll into town (and hope that the cop at the door doesn't recognize them) for the slim chance that they could find a private sale gun that's suitable?

203 Yup and I bet he knew how to use it also

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 20, 2012 12:05 PM (79ueO)

Hopefully better than his driving. I have never been so scared in my life.

But that just makes him a typical Israeli.

204 DOOM Returns?

Posted by: t-bird at December 20, 2012 12:19 PM (FcR7P)

It never left.....

205 @179 Yes, the Fixer has a point there. I'm too gentlemanly to dance on corpses like a journalist, but I've long argued that, home-school kook or not, there's something just kind of ewww about taking every person the same age in a whole town and making them spend their whole day together, in one spot, and to the exclusion of any contact with persons of other ages.

It's got to be a happy hunting ground for perverts, pedophiles (paedophiles to Piers the Plowman), mass murder advocates, child psychologists, sugar merchants and pop-culture book salesmen. Something just not right about the idea, and it doesn't go way back in history either. I'd like nothing better than to have the basic principles of the "culture of compulsive education" challenged. Not happening.

206 JPS: You said, "I think spree shootings will only get less common after two or three in a row are stopped by the nearest several adults pouncing on the guy." We had a work-place shooting here in Minneapolis where there was a struggle. No one survived the struggle so we don't know how it went down, but just pouncing on the guy is clearly not enough. What is needed is someone with a weapon. We need to allow people to openly carry arms everywhere.

207 64 Linked on Drudge: Latin Americans are the happiest people on the planet.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/65curg

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 20, 2012 11:38 AM (XUKZU)

___________________

Prolly cuz Latinas are the hottest girls on the planet.

208 Ha - banning guns is for pikers.  Join me where the action is, I want to ban murder, make it illegal, that will end these wild shootouts.

209 Wait until we have affordable 3D printers that can print in metal like the plastic ones today. Just download an AR-15 pattern from the Internet, pour in the raw materials, and fire up your PC. Next morning your new gun is ready for use.

210 Exactamundo.

Nothing snarky, just well said Andy.

Since leftist media folks are not tolerant of second amendment rights, do they pick and choose to support the first amendment right to free speech?


http://is.gd/aT0omT

If they believe in taking away one creator-given, constitutionally protected right, what makes them think it will stop with the 2nd amendment?

211 So I'm trying to talk my libtard neighbor, female, single, "War is not the answer" bumper sticker on her 1998 Taurus with rusted out rocker, blown head gasket, etc, into putting a "Gun Free Zone" sign on her front yard.
For some reason, she is resistive to that suggestion.

212

 

Nicely said, Andy.

 

Two words we should be looking out for....'Federal Registry'.

 

I heard a liberal on Fox use these two words last night, as a solution to all these 'problems' with gun ownership.

This is how they will try to kill the 2nd Amdt.

They've tried before.

 

213 Listening to the local talk show host (WBAL, Baltimore C4), it seems he gets it.
But some of the most common reasons given for banning guns is......
Forcing teachers to carry guns would not stop every shooting.
(No one is suggesting that teachers be FORCED, just allowed if they pass qualification, vetting precess. Nothing, including Birth Control is 100% effective. )
We don't have enough money to hire guards.
(No one is talking hiring guards, just allowing someone to operate within their rights)

And I keep trying to get this though into some kind of cogent statement...
Currently, a shooter, walking into a school kill zone knows that they are the hunter, amongst defenseless prey. The only thing they need to do to protect themselves is shoot anyone that might get close enough to hit them with a chair. Other than that, they can cover as much ground as they wish, as fast as they want, with no defensive actions needed on their part. Almost as if they are in a FPS video game, with unlimited lives.
If you introduce even the POSSIBILITY that someone they might encounter is armed, the entire scenario changes from a predator role to a prey roll, forcing the shooter to go slower, never knowing if opening a classroom door will reveal an active counter shooter aimed at the door from a defensive position instead of cowering, prey.
And as we all know, time is precious in the response. That is why most new active shooter response now teaches to get an armed defender on scene asap, regardless if backup is there or not. The introduction of a defensive shooter immediately changes the killers role from predator, and the shooter knows that.
Just letting the word be known that teachers are allowed to carry, and never confirming who/how many etc, changes the potential dynamics in favor of the shooter passing on that school.

214 Lots of people confuse "intuition" with "common sense" and think that because something is intuitive in their mind that it's common sense. Gun control following a mass shooting is a prime example of this phenomenon.

215

 

M - O - O - N.  That spells reasonable,  common sense  gun control!

216 We need "gun-free zone" control.

217 TFG: "this is not something where folks will be studying the issue for six months and then publishing a report".

Great, glad we set a timer of 6 months or less to find innovative* ways to curtail Second Amendment rights which will likely have little impact on preventing mass shootings, gun violence in general and will have high administrative costs.

*they won't be "innovative" just a repetition of all other failed policies or policy attempts.  However, because TFG is the Preezy it will all sound super intelligent, fresh, articulate, new, and clean.

218 There are 300 million guns in private hands in the USA right now and any one of them could go off at any minute and....look out behind you! Whew, that was a close one. There are about 250 million cars in the USA......Oh DEAR GOD WATCH OUT!.......whew....another close one. There are thousands of pipelines in the USA carrying gas, oil, natural gas, etc., and hundreds of accidents every year.....Jesus! LOOK OVER THERE!

219 "...'Federal Registry'". Posted by: wheatie Conveniently, Eric Holder just this year allowed all federal agencies to share all information on all Americans just to nose around to see what they can see if they wish. Obamacare shares all medical and financial information in real time with the federal government. But I'm sure a "Federal Registry" would be perfectly benign.

220 If a particularly stupid Republican Senate candidate made an extremist comment about guns on the campaign trail, many of us would call him out for that, too. I guess I'm looking for a definition of what constitutes an extremist position re guns (akin to no exceptions pro-lifers being labeled extremist by ace and others b/c of public polling numbers). I *think* that the general public is for some sort of gun regulation - although whether it's on a local or federal level isn't clear to me. I can't tell if that's considered a RINO position here. Let me give an example. During our wildfire season here in Utah the governor and legislature wanted to limit where people could do target practice since many of the fires were started by people's shooting in dry areas. There was a sizable hew and cry about that because it was considered a restriction. To me, that is an extremist position. It bothers me that the "self-evident" right to life is something we can negotiate on, but I don't see similar willingness to negotiate on gun rights in light of this latest incident. I'm not advocating for the latter, btw, but merely pushing back on the calls to toss out pro-life stances from many w/in the GOP.

221 In other words, if Obama and his media lackeys manage to get polling numbers that support an "assault weapon" ban (whatever the heck that means), would the same people who told rank-and-file GOPers to STFU on pro-life issues for the good of the Party do the same to gun rights folks?

222 The only common sense gun control at this point is to make sure everyone has one.  Seriously.  How many of those a**holes will be stopped if they know they'll get shot back at?

223 I disagree with one of the premises in the post--I don't think all the "security theatre" in airports is designed to make us feel safer.  It doesn't make ME feel safer, but I already hated to fly before 9-11.  I think it is another exercise in getting the rank and file used to behaving like good cattle.  Line up, take that off, stand here NO NOT YET, turn around, extend your arms, friskfriskwandwand, NEXT.  And on you hobble to the next staging area, partially undressed, with a little bowl of personal effects to redistribute on your person.  Meanwhile, blood pressure pumping, and wondering what they missed on THAT guy over there, and no smoking in the whole ***damned multiacre cluster****.  two hours of the airport before you get locked into the cramped bus with wings to pay too much for liquor that you can only charge, no cash anymore?  Yeah, definitely feeling-based.  Warm and fuzzy.  Rant off

224 201 I read common sense gun control as ass-less chaps. Why put on a garment that doesn't even cover your naughty bits?

Posted by: Butters at December 20, 2012 12:22 PM (NIZHJ)

All chaps are ass-less by definition. Non-ass-less chaps are called "pants".

225 The House Dems are pushing for an immediate gun control vote.  The GOP should take them up on it. 

Paragraph one should have as blatantly unconstitutional wording to ban guns as possible (so it gets nuked in court). 

Paragraph two should repeal Obamacide.

Make it severable so that paragraph two stays when one gets thrown out.

226 6 a voluntary embargo on wall-to-wall coverage making the shooter the star of the show

This is really important.  At a minimum, media must be shamed into keeping the names and faces of these POSs out of the TVs and newspapers.

These terrible shootings are newsworthy events, so tell us what happened, tell us details that are pertinent to future prevention and mitigation, but stop making the story about the miserable POS who did it.  (And I don't want to hear a word about their fucking manifesto.)

I also agree with "voluntary" -- there are First Amendment concerns. 

You are spot on.

227 >>Posted by: JDP at December 20, 2012 01:45 PM Thanks for that. I think of myself as a fairly pragmatic conservative, but I guess you can tell it was really bothering me that ace felt the need to slap the 'extremist' label on pro-lifers. And it wasn't something he slapped solely on Akin. It was something he chose to use to describe any no-exceptions pro-lifer, based solely on polling data. I think folks who are really strongly no restrictions gun rights people should bear that in mind. The Party will toss them out, too. Now it may well be that there is a very strong correlation between gun rights folks and pro-lifers, I'm not sure, but food for thought.

228 Evil violence is only stopped when confronted with violence of equal or greater force.

229

Of course the answer to gun violence is more guns, that  should be easy for anyone to see

230 Actually, arming the pilots makes sure the planes can't be hijacked.

231 leh #206: You're right about my notion (i.e.: charge - you might as well) not being enough. I regretted my comment after learning that that's exactly how Principal Hochsprung and at least one other person died. RIP.

232 these are some "common sense" solutions-- 1. re-open the mental hospitals, lock up a million or two dangerous lunatics. 2. ban any press coverage of the name, bio, background, etc. of mass murderers, as they do in Canada. 3. put metal doors with serious locks on classrooms, as they do in Canada. 4. seek out retired cops and retired military to serve one day per week as armed guards in schools on voluntary unpaid basis.

233 Common sense is so rare these days it should be reclassified as a Super Power.

234 Of course the answer to gun violence is more guns, that should be easy for anyone to see It's the answer to crime in general, as experience proves.

235 We have already won! Obama and his administration have PUBLICLY AND AS A MATTER OF OFFICIAL STATE POLICY have acknowledged our premise that the Second Amendments means exactly what we say it means. This administration is giving (at taxpayer expense) fully automatic weapons, grenades, missiles, rockets, tanks, mines, artillery, and all other weapons of war to CIVILIANS to resist and overthrow their tyrannical governments. Syria. Libya. Iraq. Countries throughout the middle east. We should hold them the standard they so widely and proudly proclaim. Each and every argument we make in support of our Constitucional Right to keep and bear arms is upheld by this administration as good, decent, and humanitarian. They willfully expand it in other countries to weapons we do not even request! We need to publicly castigate every official, journalist and politician who would deprive us of our God given rights while using our tax dollars to ensure those rights for foreigners. They are asking for the forceful disarment of American citizens ( including veterans and service members who have sworn and honored an oath to the Constitution!) while arming Al Qaeda, the muslim brotherhood and all manner of islamic jihadists whose publicly sworn objective is our death and eradication. We must DEMAND the same for ourselves. Hammer this point home at all times! The "Discussion" is truly over.

236 "They say they want to ban high-capacity magazines, even though the low-capacity ones take only seconds to change." "Common sense" says that an attacker is vulnerable while reloading; the "train 'em to charge the attacker" meme I've seen all over conservative websites might then have a chance to actually WORK.