October 11, 2012
— Ace Because I'm hearing a lot about how Ryan's going to "destroy" Joe Biden.
Let's look at reasons why that won't be so:
1. The Moderator Chooses The Questions and Will Presumably Attempt to Maintain "Control."
When liberals assailed Jim Lehrer for "losing control" -- that is, permitting two highly accomplished, adult men with no criminal history to talk to each other without much official supervision -- they weren't really criticizing Lehrer. They were making excuses for Obama, but more importantly, they were working the refs of the next game.
They were laying down a marker for the next moderators that If you fail to properly coddle Obama and/or Biden, you will be all but excommunicated from the Press Club.
I imagine this worked. I imagine, as many have said, that Paul Ryan will be debating two opponents, not one. I believe that all the tough, wedge-issue questions will be put to Ryan -- with the moderator interrupting his answers to contradict him and cavil -- whereas Biden will be offered open-ended questions asking him to rehabilitate Obama's image. And he will do so.
2. All Issues, Including Abortion, Birth Control, and #waronwomen, Will Be Included In This Debate.
Understand this about the Romeny/Obama debate -- that debate was on the economy, debt, and taxes. The issues the Romney/Ryan ticket are running on.
This debate will cover all issues, and bet your bottom dollar that #waronwomen will be three of them. (There are nine "pods" of questions; expect a full third, or more, to be devoted to Birth Control, Abortion, and #waronwomen.)
It's not that Ryan automatically loses on such questions; but he doesn't have any advantage. Further, when the moderator is dwelling on all the tough questions of Ryan's position (abortion in cases of rape) but serving up Biden Home Run Pitches and not asking him any tough questions ("abortions" conducted on actual live-birth babies), it stacks the field pretty badly.
Ryan will tread very carefully here, trying to appease both the harder-core of the social right while trying to not scare the shit out of moderates. He will come off scripted, controlled, and not quite candid during these interrogations.
And that's a third of the debate.
And when Ryan gets into the specifics of budgetary policy, and Biden seems to be flailing, the moderator will advise Ryan "let's get out of the weeds here."
Of course-- let's get away from Ryan's advantage. And ignore the fact that the game is in the weeds. That's precisely where you hunt it.
3. Biden Is Liberated From Responsibility And Can Say Literally Anything Without Fear of Fact-Check.
Biden's reputation for silly blarney means that nothing he says will be fact-checked by a media desperate for an Obama/Biden win, and furthermore, no matter what howlers he tells, none of that will be permitted to reflect poorly on Obama himself.
No idiocy of Biden's will wind up staining Obama. So he can indulge in the Tactically Idiotic at will.
A Liberation From Responsibility is quite an advantage.
4. Biden Has Long Been Regarded As Rather A Strong Debater.
No bullshit here -- this isn't just me hackishly propping him up. As Legal Insurrection recently noted, with video clips aplenty, Biden's strength -- one of his only strengths -- is being good at both giving an old-fashioned ward-heeler type political speech, and giving the same sort of Machine Politician Pro debate performance.
Remember, Sarah Palin gave a good performance in the 2008 VP debate -- so good I thought she won, and won clearly (on points, but unanimous decision by the judges).
But polls -- the same polls that now say Romney won Round One with Obama -- said Biden actually won.
Sarah Palin wasn't an idiot, and had charisma, and had done her homework in preparing for the debate. Biden still won.
And Biden was judged to have won many of the Democratic debates when he ran for president in 2008. No one noticed, because he was never considered a serious candidate, but his combination of joviality and po-mouth blarney was thought to be winning and charming.
5. For a Certain Segment of the Population, Intellect Is Threatening and "Other."
And this is Biden's secret strength -- he talks best to people who are, how do I say this, not particularly bright. That was Obama's cynical reason for picking him as VP.
Will he have his facts in order? Will he know his policy cold? No, he won't, but he "speaks from the heart," which is what people say when they want to compliment someone who's kind of dimwitted and out of it.
Biden's strength is this: "Often in error, seldom in doubt." He will make sweepingly stupid statements, and he will offer them with complete conviction, because he's stupid enough to believe what he's saying.
Meanwhile, Paul Ryan is an extremely smart guy, and is, how would we put this in terms Biden would understand?, burdened by knowledge and expertise.
Some of the people who voted for Obama last time might feel a bit of resentment at this obviously highly intelligent young whelp beating up on a confused old man who means well and "speaks from the heart."
6. No Matter Who Wins, The Media Will Claim Biden Won.
They need Biden to win; thus, it will be so. And because the ratings will be so much lower for this debate -- the VP debate tends not to be watched very much, the 2008 aberration aside -- most people will learn of the debate via the media, not the report of their own eyes.
And hence, "Biden wins" is the headline.
It's already the headline. It has already been written.
To actually "win" -- and be judged as winning -- Ryan will actually have to demolish Biden worse than Romney demolished Obama. An extremely high hurdle, which simply will not happen.
If Biden wins, then Biden wins.
If Biden ties, then Biden wins.
If Biden loses, then Biden wins.
Only if Biden commits the sort of embarrassing gaffe that becomes a viral sensation can Ryan possibly win-- and then in that case, he "edges" Biden, only because of this one little problem, which by the way is no big deal.
So, overall: Chillax. We're not going to "destroy" Biden. We're looking for a win, which then becomes a "tie with little impact on the race" in the media's telling.
And it will be an uphill battle to get that much.
Format: The basics:
Unlike last week, Vice President Joe Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan will be seated, next to each other and at the same table as Raddatz....Another difference will be format. TonightÂ’s debate will be roughly evenly split between foreign and domestic topics. Last weekÂ’s debate was domestic only; there will be a with a town-hall format and a foreign-policy debate to follow over the next two weeks.
And while Jim Lehrer moderated a debate broken into six 15-minute segments, RaddatzÂ’s debate will be broken into nine 10-minute segments.
...
At the beginning of each segment, Raddatz will ask the same question to both Biden and Ryan. Each will have two minutes to respond, uninterrupted, with lights giving time signals to both men.
Raddatz will then use the balance of the time in each segment to facilitate a discussion between Biden and Ryan. There will be no opening statements, though both will be given on minute and 30 seconds for closing statements.
Posted by: Ace at
01:03 PM
| Comments (384)
Post contains 1249 words, total size 8 kb.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 11, 2012 01:06 PM (0nogT)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 11, 2012 01:06 PM (jUytm)
Posted by: © Sponge at October 11, 2012 01:06 PM (UK9cE)
eh whatever fireworks erupt or gaffes misspoken, the audience is only going to remember one thing: who do they want a hearbeat away:
old, pluggy and brain damaged or young, healthy and smart
Posted by: kallisto at October 11, 2012 01:07 PM (jm/9g)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 11, 2012 01:07 PM (TMB3S)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:07 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Honey Badger at October 11, 2012 01:07 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: #OccupyResoluteDesk at October 11, 2012 01:07 PM (7QU6R)
Posted by: angienc at October 11, 2012 01:07 PM (w3JGl)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 11, 2012 01:07 PM (e0xKF)
If Biden wins, then Biden wins.
If Biden ties, then Biden wins.
If Biden loses, then Biden wins.
I half expect Biden to have a stroke--real or feigned, equal probability--before the end of the night, thus winning on "sympathy."
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at October 11, 2012 01:07 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: © Sponge at October 11, 2012 01:08 PM (UK9cE)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at October 11, 2012 01:08 PM (j1gX1)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 11, 2012 01:08 PM (Pixxe)
I'm hoping Biden is bored with being VP and tanks on purpose tonight so he can retire. It is also plausible that obama has insulted him and he could trow it out of revenge.
Posted by: Buzzsaw at October 11, 2012 01:08 PM (tf9Ne)
Posted by: rrpjr at October 11, 2012 01:08 PM (KzEmp)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 11, 2012 01:08 PM (e0xKF)
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna at October 11, 2012 01:08 PM (9+ccr)
Sorry, my previous post should read:
#7 Old age and treachery always triumphs over youth and skill.
Posted by: angienc at October 11, 2012 01:09 PM (w3JGl)
But it won't matter because TFG is still a POS.
Posted by: real joe, ready to commence drinking heavily at October 11, 2012 01:09 PM (lJSPE)
Biden: No Martha, it's always steered my course effectively.
Moderator: Congressperson Ryan, you hate everyone. It that a problem for you?
Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at October 11, 2012 01:09 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: Rich at October 11, 2012 01:09 PM (pnHKr)
Posted by: Lord of the Wings at October 11, 2012 01:09 PM (SIwEl)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:09 PM (QxSug)
Sorry, but the dumbest fucking words ever uttered by a "brilliant man: good debater."
Posted by: © Sponge at October 11, 2012 01:09 PM (UK9cE)
In 2008, the former was perceived as winning out over the latter.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at October 11, 2012 01:09 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:10 PM (QxSug)
That will contrast with Joe Biden who can be very good in a debate situation, but has a weak case to draw from.
People will draw their own conclusions.
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:10 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 11, 2012 01:10 PM (e0xKF)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 11, 2012 01:10 PM (jUytm)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 11, 2012 01:10 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: jjshaka at October 11, 2012 01:10 PM (wrRz1)
Posted by: Yip at October 11, 2012 01:10 PM (Mrdk1)
Posted by: t-bird at October 11, 2012 01:11 PM (FcR7P)
He will lie and the media will spin it as essentially true.
Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at October 11, 2012 01:11 PM (+I8Mq)
Posted by: Marcus at October 11, 2012 01:11 PM (HU7qu)
I'm just North of SF but I don't follow sports. My Daughter on the other hand is a rabid Giants fan....
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna at October 11, 2012 01:11 PM (9+ccr)
Since Biden got away last debate with saying the most insanely idiotic thing ever uttered by a politician, then you are right that this is not a slam dunk in any shape or form.
Posted by: polynikes at October 11, 2012 01:11 PM (m2CN7)
Posted by: Honey Badger at October 11, 2012 01:11 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: Swanny at October 11, 2012 01:11 PM (XzlBE)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (QupBk)
Don't forget, Ryan will have to be polite, or will be scolded for being a hothead or something. Nope, not looking for a miracle, but hoping for one.
Ryan has guts and smarts and I hope the country gets a chance to use them effectively starting next year.
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (l3vZN)
Posted by: joncelli at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (RD7QR)
I know Kerry was the Romney stand-in for TFG, Portman was the TFG stand-in for Romney, and John Bolton has been the Biden stand-in for Ryan, but not the name of the Ryan stand-in for Biden.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 11, 2012 05:07 PM (e0xKF)
-----------
Ted Olson, the former Solicitor General of the United States whose wife was killed on 9-11.
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (Pixxe)
Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (+I8Mq)
"All Issues, Including Abortion, Birth Control, and #waronwomen, Will Be Included In This Debate."
Huh? I thought this was supposed to be a foreign policy debate?
Posted by: Elize Nayden at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (VETY/)
Biden needs to make it through the first question. And that question will be: Do you like pudding, just nod yes or no.
If he gets past that, he will be declared the winner.
Posted by: AndrewsDad at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (C2//T)
Posted by: Bosk at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (n2K+4)
Posted by: Unca' Joe at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:12 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 11, 2012 01:13 PM (QupBk)
The key question is, will it help Obama at the polls? I doubt it because they have been running the worst campaign I have ever seen and this VP debate is really a sideshow.
Posted by: Vic at October 11, 2012 01:13 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: angienc at October 11, 2012 05:09 PM (w3JGl)
___
The content and substance were provided by the big dog last week. Tonite it's the visuals that count. Now the undecideds, moderates and LIVs who tune in just want to know who will be second in command, and they'll pick the young one who still has his own naturally colored hair. If Andrew Cuomo were opposite Ryan tonite, it would be a lot tougher for our veep candidate.
Posted by: kallisto at October 11, 2012 01:13 PM (jm/9g)
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:13 PM (P6QsQ)
The Dems have framed the issue as the GOP wanting to control a woman's right to birth control, etc. etc.
When in reality, it is the exact opposite.
I think most women know it is not as simple or clear cut as the libtards try to put on. If Ryan can simplify the issue and turn it around on Biden, it will be a big win.
Ryan needs to say this: You current health plan probably covers birth control with some small co-pay. But Obamacare forces every employer to provide it free of cost and forces them to include abortion pills. Some employers simply cannot do that morally. So you may have your employer drop health insurance simply because Obamacare is forcing them into a moral dilemna.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (f9c2L)
Posted by: ace at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (LCRYB)
Vice President Biden has just given you more proof that he's more worried about the unions than he is the teachers. Who has benefited more from the policies put in place in his administration, students or teachers unions? Test scores are at an all time low and teachers benefits and salaries are at an all time high. The federal education departments keep making laws and guidelines and our kids are not getting better.
Biden and his partner Obama keep touting about not going to the past, but I'm talking about the future. Throwing endless amounts of money hasn't solved anything yet. We need TRUE REFORM and smart spending to save our economy AND give our kids the future they deserve.
It's doable. FUCK Biden's debate skills. FACTS baby.
Posted by: © Sponge at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (UK9cE)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (QxSug)
Joe: Osama is alive, GM is dead .... ((looks at watch))
Posted by: Craig Poe at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (BVkEs)
Posted by: Serious Cat at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (CofEF)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: The Political Hat at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (XvHmy)
Posted by: Truman North at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (j8J0O)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (jUytm)
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (l3vZN)
Doesn't the moderator take a credibility hit if she kneels to Biden due to the fact that the story is out that there is/was a relationship between her, ex-husband, and Obama?
But then again, when has loss of credibility shamed any of these "moderators".
I see Ryan clearly winning if he steers the debate the way he wants and doesn't let the moderator/Biden box him into a corner.
Posted by: Cheri at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (G+Wff)
1) Biden has become such a loose cannon that he doesn't check himself at all anymore. It's true he's been kind of nuts for a while, but he's way, way nuts now.
2) Ryan is very, very good. I've never seen the guy flummoxed or awkward.
3) Photogenically, it's no contest.
But like I said, I agree that we can't expect it be as bad as Romney-Obama. We can hope and be pleasantly surprised, but, yes, let's lower those expectations a mite.
Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (h9gW0)
Posted by: JParker at October 11, 2012 05:13 PM (60GaT)
-------------
Yes, I misread the question. Olson has been prepping Ryan not Biden. I apologize.
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 11, 2012 01:14 PM (TMB3S)
Posted by: Jean at October 11, 2012 01:15 PM (ilc7b)
Posted by: rickb223 at October 11, 2012 01:15 PM (Xs67o)
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:15 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Jolly Roger at October 11, 2012 01:15 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:15 PM (QxSug)
And this is Biden's secret strength -- he talks best to people who are, how do I say this, not particularly bright.
I'm so glad I'm not an alpha.
Posted by: Zetas everywhere at October 11, 2012 01:16 PM (6TB1Z)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 11, 2012 01:16 PM (f9c2L)
You can't prepare for Biden. You never know what he will say.
Could be anything... hell he might even kiss you
Posted by: The Jackhole at October 11, 2012 01:16 PM (nTgAI)
just got back from hepling joe biden perpation for the debate about
alot of zingers and snapping come backs about hey yeah fourty seven
percent dont not even matter lolol nice job romeny way to think it
thruogh idiot plus also great idea to having a war on woman rolfoma
Posted by: Jose Canseco's Gristle Encased Head at October 11, 2012 01:16 PM (+lsX1)
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 11, 2012 01:16 PM (eHIJJ)
Questions to expect:
Congressthing Ryan, has your refusal to acknowledge the inherent dichotomies in your tax plan, most notably those who will raise the middle class' burden by some 5,000,000% and which will result in many elderly being forced into indentured servitude to your children caused you any sleepless nights? If not, why not?
Vice-President Biden, if you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 11, 2012 01:16 PM (lOmbq)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:16 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Jack at October 11, 2012 01:17 PM (wUFaM)
Posted by: Sandra Slut at October 11, 2012 01:17 PM (wR+pz)
Posted by: t-bird at October 11, 2012 01:17 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 11, 2012 01:17 PM (f9c2L)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 11, 2012 01:17 PM (TMB3S)
And if Joe is Slow-Joe enough to throw out "recent improved numbers"...bingo, Ryan is in his wheelhouse and tearing the recently fudged-on-purpose reports to shreds. And, every now and then, cough into his fist saying, "Libya!"
Posted by: sgr at October 11, 2012 01:17 PM (xa5GW)
Posted by: kawfytawk at October 11, 2012 01:17 PM (JWLqy)
Posted by: yankeefifth at October 11, 2012 01:17 PM (Z9EHQ)
Posted by: Torch-Wielding Villager at October 11, 2012 01:17 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: Bosk at October 11, 2012 01:18 PM (n2K+4)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 11, 2012 01:18 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:18 PM (QxSug)
Alcatraz? That would be a helluva place to pick up swimming.
Posted by: t-bird at October 11, 2012 05:17 PM (FcR7P)
That's right in the bay... A little farther North than that...
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna at October 11, 2012 01:18 PM (9+ccr)
So I will enjoy the debate better if I lower my expectations before watching it? seriously, what is all this talk about lowering expectations? you already hit the nail on the head regarding the media, of course they're going to say that Joe did very well, regardless of expectations. who cares what the media says?
the people that matter are the people like in Luntz's focus groups. what they are going to see is two men. One young, very bright, well studied, prepared, nice, good looking, energetic man in command of the issues who actually has prepared detailed plans on how to fix our economy who all of a sudden doesn't seem as scary as he has been made out to be, versus an old man, who doesn't always seem to make sense, avoids direct answers, looking like a typical politician mouthing the same old crap, and who likely will say a few dopey things during the debate. the contrast will be very striking and unmistakable
the expectations don't matter a whit. sit the two men at the table and the direct and indirect impressions that an impartial audience will gleen will favor Ryan in a landslide similar to Romney over Obama.
Posted by: exceller at October 11, 2012 01:18 PM (ROGMG)
Posted by: Joey B at October 11, 2012 01:18 PM (FcR7P)
Well hell, If Ryan can't win even if he wins, why not not win with style?
I hope he turns Joe's lectern over, pins him to the stage, and teabags him.
Posted by: Jaws at October 11, 2012 01:18 PM (4I3Uo)
Posted by: Rusty Nail at October 11, 2012 01:18 PM (QxGmu)
Posted by: MoJoTee at October 11, 2012 01:19 PM (e1kfW)
Posted by: teej says go K-State at October 11, 2012 01:19 PM (/BwGa)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:19 PM (QxSug)
This is more about Ryan showing his previously shown competence. Nobody cares about sloe joe. (other than the obama campaign and the media, birm)
The thing is, and this is much harder for conservatives, is since the media has already written the 'Biden wins' story, we must use the social media to claim Ryan won no matter what. Not really part of our character, but fire with fire and all that.
Posted by: Clubber Lang at October 11, 2012 01:19 PM (PHb2k)
Posted by: The Political Hat at October 11, 2012 05:14 PM (XvHmy)
How much do we drink if that happens?
Posted by: Adam at October 11, 2012 01:19 PM (/YJYi)
Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at October 11, 2012 01:19 PM (WItBr)
Posted by: Jolly Roger at October 11, 2012 01:19 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: Justamom in Achin' Akin's district at October 11, 2012 01:19 PM (Sptt8)
Posted by: rickb223 at October 11, 2012 01:20 PM (7m7T2)
ABC is already spinning for Biden, and not even trying to hide it.
Nonetheless, Ryan will emerge the winner.
As for the media spin, you are most likely right, but then we already know that over 60% of the public knows the media is biased. You can't fool all the peeps all the time.
Posted by: MisterMoney at October 11, 2012 01:20 PM (wN82N)
Fear and loathing pre debate. On one hand... and on the other hand...
Get the pudding to room temperature. This will be a teh galactic beat-down of my Vice President.
Posted by: dblwmy at October 11, 2012 01:20 PM (BvTwT)
Posted by: Lincolntf at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (HethX)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (wR+pz)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (FGyIi)
Posted by: Jose/ningrim at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (srIqv)
Posted by: Marcus at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (HU7qu)
Posted by: Confederate Veteran at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (w41GQ)
Posted by: The one one good line from the 1984 movie version of Dune at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (fsLdt)
However, the "Obama wins" was already written before the last debate.
Don't under estimate the Romney campaigns ability to find ways to challenge the normal way things happen. They know they are running against the MFM, not Obama/Biden.
Which was ultimately McCain's problem. He thought he was running against Obama.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (wg4gm)
Posted by: Davidlind at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (J9mCu)
Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at October 11, 2012 01:21 PM (iL9Kk)
---------------
I think if you mean be angrily aggressive, I don't believe that is going to happen. Passionate, yes. Energetic, yes. Determined, yes. But he's generally a person who treats others with respect.
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:22 PM (P6QsQ)
Joe Biden has a temper...and gets pissy, when asked to explain himself.
I think they have him on meds, at times, to keep this from happening.
Which could explain his 'Slow Joe' demeanor.
Remember this...from 2008?
http:/ /www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbCf4l1dtDc&feature=related
Posted by: wheatie at October 11, 2012 01:22 PM (l5RhJ)
Posted by: dblwmy at October 11, 2012 01:22 PM (BvTwT)
Posted by: cajun carrot at October 11, 2012 01:22 PM (UZQM8)
Posted by: macintx at October 11, 2012 01:22 PM (teREJ)
In the meantime, between pounding the pavement, I've got loads more time to volunteer.
Posted by: tdpwells at October 11, 2012 01:22 PM (7vA7k)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 11, 2012 01:22 PM (jUytm)
If Ryan focused on speaking directly to the American people--which I think he will do, and do well--he will accomplish what he needs to do.
It does not matter what Biden or Ridbitch says.
JKF won the debates because ( as an unknown facing someone who had been VP for eight years ) he spoke directly to the American people--while Nixon scored debate points.
Posted by: Isaac Davis White at October 11, 2012 01:22 PM (Dll6b)
Posted by: davidt at October 11, 2012 01:23 PM (8/bPb)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:23 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Adam at October 11, 2012 05:19 PM (/YJYi)
All of it.
Posted by: © Sponge at October 11, 2012 01:23 PM (UK9cE)
It would be great to see Ryan right out of the gate lead off with a direct challenge to Biden's veracity. Specifically citing a prior case or two in which Biden had simply made shit up that was not true. Call into question everything Biden says from that point on.
My personal favorite is the time when Biden, running for President in the late 1980s, gave a moving autobiographical speech in Iowa. It turned out that Slow Joe had lifted it nearly in its entirety from a speech by the Labour politician Neil Kinnock in the UK.
And while Kinnock's rendering was at least factually authentic, Biden's replay of it was wildly untrue. Biden was out there claiming that his forebears had worked in coal mines, for example. Nope. Kinnock's father actually was a coal miner. Biden's dad sold used cars at a Chevy dealership in Wilmington.
What's even better is that the most damning retelling of this Biden fiasco comes from the liberal holy of holies, the _New York Times_. So liberals can't claim reporting bias.
http://tinyurl.com/biden-kinnock
Posted by: torquewrench at October 11, 2012 01:23 PM (ymG7s)
Posted by: Winston Wolfe at October 11, 2012 01:23 PM (4pSIn)
Before the 1st Pres debate, which did you think would go better for the GOP? The Pres debate or the VEEP debate?
Aaaaand why would you answer be any different now?
< dusts hands > Now about my money....
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at October 11, 2012 01:23 PM (bCaR9)
Posted by: RoyalOil at October 11, 2012 01:23 PM (imtbm)
Posted by: yankeefifth at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (Z9EHQ)
Posted by: eggs benedict at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (FpBe1)
What hasn't been said, which is more likely now than in the first Presidential debate and was mentioned frequently is that Biden may already know what this moderator will be specifically asking him.
Posted by: polynikes at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (m2CN7)
Having just reviewed "Dave in Fla"s site, here's where I think the election stands:
Start with the assumption that we have all of McCain's states, plus IN(11). That's 191 EV.
Suppose we believe that pollster who says the race is over in FL(29), NC(15), VA(13) - that Romney has them all. "Dave in Fla" attests to the idea that Romney has FL, which I personally find comforting. That brings us up to 248 EV.
Dave has a special OH(1
analysis that shows that, with his 2010 model (which is the one I tend to go with), Romney is up 4.5%. So add OH. That gets you to 266 EV.
Romney needs 270 EV, so beyond FL, NC, VA, and OH, ... ANY of the remaining swing states would do the trick: CO(9), IA(6), MI(16), NH(4), NV(6), PA(20), or WI(10)
Things look pretty good right now.
Posted by: Optimizer at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (As94z)
Posted by: Gregg at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (VrVBw)
Posted by: yes at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (LpQbZ)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: ace at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (LCRYB)
Obama screwed the pooch. America knows it. Absolutely knows it. The country wants answers, solutions, and accountability. Team Obama have shown none of it and the MFM, while still quite powerful, cannot monopolize the narrative. Americans have seen the Emperors new clothes and they cannot be unseen at this point.
Let the preference cascade amplify.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (eHIJJ)
Posted by: tdpwells at October 11, 2012 05:22 PM (7vA7k)
----------------
I'm very sorry. I hope things turn around for you soon.
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:24 PM (P6QsQ)
But is that going to prepare Ryan for when Biden wanders over to the moderator, introduces himself as Joe Bidenosaurus Rex, and kiss-rapes her like that nurse in the iconic V-J Day photo?
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at October 11, 2012 01:25 PM (/kI1Q)
1. Biden will do much better than Obama's first debate. This is a mixed blessing for Obama/Biden. It will make Plugs seem more competent, but at the cost of reminding everyone of Obama's poor performance.
2. Biden will actually "win" the debate. Not on substance, of course. But I don't think you can underestimate the value of experience here. Biden has done this many times before on a stage this high. Ryan has not. Ryan will be nervous and it will show. He already has a tendency to speak too quickly when in front of large audiences, even when scripted.
3. None of it will really matter. This particular debate will not influence the election.
Posted by: angler at October 11, 2012 01:25 PM (SwjAj)
.......
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that..
If you have some extra time, go watch the debates again on YouTube.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at October 11, 2012 01:25 PM (f9c2L)
Posted by: naturalfake at October 11, 2012 01:25 PM (54vf8)
Posted by: yankeefifth at October 11, 2012 01:25 PM (Z9EHQ)
Ryan needs to present an unfiltered Ryan ( which few have seen ). If he does that well, the 'process' of the debate won't really matter
Posted by: Isaac Davis White at October 11, 2012 01:25 PM (Dll6b)
Posted by: skinnydipinacid at October 11, 2012 01:25 PM (dt2qx)
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at October 11, 2012 01:25 PM (6zgse)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 11, 2012 01:26 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: Justamom in Achin' Akin's district at October 11, 2012 01:26 PM (Sptt8)
Posted by: BCochran1981 at October 11, 2012 01:26 PM (GEICT)
Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at October 11, 2012 01:26 PM (pmsMR)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 11, 2012 01:27 PM (jUytm)
Posted by: tdpwells at October 11, 2012 05:22 PM (7vA7k)
Sorry too. My husband has been unemployed for a couple months. I know how you feel...
----------------
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna at October 11, 2012 01:27 PM (9+ccr)
I almost blew a gasket, I was sure Ted Olsen was a Republican.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at October 11, 2012 01:27 PM (wg4gm)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:27 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: t-bird at October 11, 2012 01:27 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 11, 2012 01:27 PM (X3lox)
Posted by: redgrains at October 11, 2012 01:27 PM (ePnYH)
----------
Exactly right. This is America's introduction to Paul Ryan. They took a look at Mitt Romney and decided he looks pretty sane. Now this is the opportunity for them to take the measure of Ryan and cement their impression that this could be a competent administration. He won't disappoint in that regard.
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:27 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (iL9Kk)
Posted by: cajun carrot at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (UZQM8)
Posted by: yankeefifth at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (Z9EHQ)
Posted by: t-bird at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (FcR7P)
Heh. Yeah, Biden will surely leave a yellow stain.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (eHIJJ)
Questions for the #VEEPdebate:
To Biden:
What is your favorite animal?
What is your Wife's name?
What color is your tie?
Do you like my dress?
To Ryan:
Can you compare then contrast the similarities then the differences of Keynesian verses Austrian Economics and provide examples of the success of each over the last two centuries?
What did Joe Biden have for Breakfast today?
Do you really "PUMP" mechanical equipment (leering)?
And I still think he will do well! LOL
Posted by: MisterMoney at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (wN82N)
Posted by: Dudley Smith at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (e08VZ)
I hear they're going to hand out plastic tarps for the first several rows, Gallagher-style.
Posted by: Torch-Wielding Villager at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (sTS/8)
Don't count on Joe's best game from the past to show up tonight----he doesn't have it anymore.
Posted by: 56 and loving RR at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (9zugO)
I don't know if she will go all 'war-on-women' since she has been outed as an obamite. She knows everybody will be watching for the bias, in questions or tone.
But I hope she goes all abortion and condoms all the time. Most women in this country are more concerned with if their children are warm and fed and happy, then this bs war on women. I am sure Ryan has the proper answers ready.
I agree it is Biden's fish stories (lies) that are going to be the challenge. Ryan has to pick the right ones to go after.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 11, 2012 01:28 PM (PHb2k)
Posted by: parteagirl at October 11, 2012 01:29 PM (58E0t)
If Biden goes into full clown mode, Ryan just has to make sure he doesn't get tainted with it. But he's smart and affable.
Frankly, I think Biden is just as likely to come off as a cranky, mean and somewhat senile old man. Ryan may have to figure out how to look like he's indulging an unserious buffoon.
Posted by: AmishDude at October 11, 2012 01:29 PM (T0NGe)
Posted by: cajun carrot at October 11, 2012 01:29 PM (UZQM8)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 11, 2012 01:30 PM (TMB3S)
Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at October 11, 2012 01:30 PM (iL9Kk)
Posted by: Dang© at October 11, 2012 01:30 PM (R18D0)
157 What's the format and layout of this debate?
Standing, sitting, table, lectern, etc?
RoyalOil,
Sitting...at a table...it looks like, from the view of the stage.
Posted by: wheatie at October 11, 2012 01:30 PM (l5RhJ)
...and if it wasn't for us racisty reich-winger Rethuglikkkkans refusing to give them free abortions until preschool, they wouldn't have to be concerned with keeping children warm and fed.
O.O
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at October 11, 2012 01:30 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: AndrewsDad at October 11, 2012 01:30 PM (C2//T)
Posted by: jakeman at October 11, 2012 01:30 PM (96M6e)
Posted by: kawfytawk at October 11, 2012 01:30 PM (JWLqy)
Posted by: cajun carrot at October 11, 2012 05:29 PM (UZQM
Lesbian, Gay Bisexual and Transgender...
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna at October 11, 2012 01:31 PM (9+ccr)
Posted by: Joe Fuckin Biden at October 11, 2012 01:31 PM (UZQM8)
As an aside, I've been working as a poll observer during early voting here in Franklin county Ohio. Tuesday night was the Obama rally at OSU. Poll workers were told to expect 2-3,000 people, and that there would likely still be a line out the door at 9pm when they closed. Tuesday was the last day of registration and the 'golden week' where you can register/vote same day.
10 buses arrived. 50-60 max capacity. One of the sheriff's there on duty told me one of them was only half full. That means they didn't even break 600. From an Obama rally. On OSU campus.
Let that sink in a minute.
By 8:30, you could roll tumbleweeds down the aisles it was so dead in there. Would expect that on any other night, but not THAT night.
Will be observing again next week, and then for two weeks solid in the lead up to election day. On election day itself, I'll be an actual poll worker (Voting Location Manager) and can do more than just observe, take notes, and point shady shit out to the on-staff judges.
Posted by: tdpwells at October 11, 2012 01:31 PM (7vA7k)
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 05:27 PM (P6QsQ)
You're right: He won't disappoint. That's mostly what this 'debate show' ( it is a TV show ) is about.
It's not Ryan vs. Bidet; it's Ryan Self-presenting. The 'questions' are only tools, and Biden is background noise / clutter
Posted by: Isaac Davis White at October 11, 2012 01:31 PM (Dll6b)
Posted by: yankeefifth at October 11, 2012 01:31 PM (Z9EHQ)
Also, Ted Olson was the plaintiff on the pro-gay marriage side in the Prop 8 case. Ryan will face a much tougher challenger in the debate prep on those questions than on stage tonight
Posted by: Chris P at October 11, 2012 01:31 PM (LuvqF)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:31 PM (QxSug)
I think lots of people know old joe is sort of whacky.
He might be off his game. Obumbles may have told him to not go off script... which he wont be able to do.
He is an enigma wrapped in a comic book and stuffed up the ass of America
Posted by: The Jackhole at October 11, 2012 01:31 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: Joe Fuckin Biden at October 11, 2012 01:32 PM (UZQM8)
What in the fuck does LGBT mean? Posted by: cajun carrot
Lesbian Gay Bi Transgender
Or maybe Let's Get Blotto Tonight. I'm not sure.
Posted by: Dang© at October 11, 2012 01:32 PM (R18D0)
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:32 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna at October 11, 2012 01:32 PM (9+ccr)
Posted by: jakeman at October 11, 2012 01:32 PM (96M6e)
and Queer and Questioning, but not Veggiesexual.
Exclusion! Bigotry!
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ needs a beer at October 11, 2012 01:33 PM (/kI1Q)
What's the format and layout of this debate?
Standing, sitting, table, lectern, etc?
Biden sitting at a six foot high dais next to Ryan on a milking stool.
Like that Andy Kaufman talk show.
Posted by: The one one good line from the 1984 movie version of Dune at October 11, 2012 01:33 PM (fsLdt)
Posted by: yankeefifth at October 11, 2012 01:33 PM (Z9EHQ)
That's why Romney got such a big boost, aside from his assfucking Obama. He showed America that he didn't have horns and a tail.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 11, 2012 01:33 PM (2b4yb)
about three things one enviroment laws and global clmate warming two
about fourty seven percent of the america arent not bums thrid paul ryan
a total doucher about old ladys and retards and handycaps need medcial
securty forth romeny has got a five billon tax cut for rich butholes but
wanting to put a tax on a middle class probally this debate is a total
knock out for joe biden if he dosent not do a huge mistake
Posted by: Jose Canseco's Gristle Encased Head at October 11, 2012 01:34 PM (+lsX1)
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at October 11, 2012 01:34 PM (SgVM9)
What in the fuck does LGBT mean?
They serve that at Katie's Diner. It's one of those tasty bacon sammich things, but she put gravy on it.
Posted by: Joey B. at October 11, 2012 01:34 PM (4pSIn)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 11, 2012 01:34 PM (TMB3S)
Yep.
Here's what Ryan ought to do first time he gets to speak: Point this thumb at Biden and address the camera, "Remember all of you who said you couldn't vote for McCain because he picked Palin. Take a look over there. What's your excuse this time? Do you really want this guy a heartbeat from the presidency for *four more years*?"
Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at October 11, 2012 01:35 PM (h9gW0)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 11, 2012 01:35 PM (lOmbq)
You are probably right Ace, however I feel a shift in the mood of our country and it could be that what used to work for Biden for so many years will not be so easily tolerated now.
Biden has gotten away with a lot of bluster, lies, and plain goofy shit that I don't think most Americans are too ready to forgive this time. The media's Messiah got hammered and the MSM couldn't defend him.
Posted by: Cheri at October 11, 2012 01:36 PM (G+Wff)
Posted by: Redd at October 11, 2012 01:36 PM (guxHP)
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:36 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 11, 2012 01:36 PM (jUytm)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:37 PM (QxSug)
176....And Biden was totally lying his ass off, there - an unbelievable, insane, unmitigated LIE - as the Barky campaign paid ACORN GOTV crimes (in Ohio, IIRC) almost a million dollars ... but "mistakenly" recorded it as "lighting expenses". Lotta lights, there!
Oh yeah he was, PrimOrd².
Biden is *always* lying....always.
And he has a temper too.
Which is why I'm hoping that Ryan is patient...and respectful...and keeps saying:
"No sir. That's not true."
"No sir. That isn't true."
"No, Mr. Vice President. That just isn't true."
And I think that Biden might very will just...lose it...and start foaming at the mouth.
Posted by: wheatie at October 11, 2012 01:37 PM (l5RhJ)
Plus, the guy (Romney) looks great on camera. And that visual shit counts a LOT to many squishy, substance-free voters. In this regard, a young, vibrant Ryan has it all over ol' doddering, grey-headed Plugs.
Posted by: Torch-Wielding Villager at October 11, 2012 01:37 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: SH at October 11, 2012 01:38 PM (gmeXX)
I am hoping Old Joe comes out fighting and completely off his rocker.
I don't think he was Angry Joe last time. Was he? He has been Angry Joe lately, with lots of YELLING and podium pounding and grinning his big ole teeth.
If I were Ryan I'd let him take all the rope he needs to tie himself into glorious knots.
I have faith in Paul Ryan. Seeing him with that stupid reporter shows me he does not take things lying down. I think he should take off his jacket, roll up his sleeves, and flex his biceps while Joe is screeching. I know I would be distracted.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, unbanned, ready to get this done at October 11, 2012 01:38 PM (baL2B)
Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna at October 11, 2012 01:38 PM (9+ccr)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 11, 2012 01:38 PM (TMB3S)
Oh! Oh! I'll start! Staring at Ryan for an hour with concerned citizen status as cover----life is good.
Posted by: 56 and loving RR at October 11, 2012 01:38 PM (9zugO)
------
As of yesterday the debate prep team was saying that each candidate was to give a 2 minute opening statement. Perhaps that has changed then.
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:38 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: drawandstrike at October 11, 2012 01:38 PM (uVLJc)
It's now your turn! Don't let the left convince you to stay home! Vote!
Posted by: TrueNorthist at October 11, 2012 01:39 PM (3Aixx)
Posted by: Random at October 11, 2012 01:39 PM (o+dk2)
Posted by: gmannyc at October 11, 2012 01:39 PM (tzMxd)
Posted by: Slow Joe Biden at October 11, 2012 01:39 PM (/YJYi)
Posted by: Train Station Restroom Glory Hole Attendant at October 11, 2012 01:39 PM (R18D0)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:40 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Soona at October 11, 2012 01:40 PM (6szqB)
Posted by: Countrysquire at October 11, 2012 01:40 PM (GNaYV)
Posted by: Patrick Bateman at October 11, 2012 01:40 PM (e0xKF)
Taking all due account of Ace's points, I still say
Crush him. Crush his women. Crush everything that is driven before them. Crush. Crush. Crush.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 11, 2012 01:40 PM (PHb2k)
I maintain that PR should walk out on stage in full hunting regalia, bow in hand, and say, "I heard you had a vermin problem..."
Yeah props always work for politicians.
And he should act "supergay".
Posted by: eleven at October 11, 2012 01:41 PM (fsLdt)
"No sir. That's not true."
"No sir. That isn't true."
"No, Mr. Vice President. That just isn't true."
Posted by: wheatie at October 11, 2012 05:37 PM (l5RhJ)
---------
I can totally see this as exactly the way he will handle it.
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:41 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: garrett at October 11, 2012 01:41 PM (mX8oo)
VP debates don't generally have an impact on the election, but if Ryan can hit a home run and embarrass ol' Joe that could re-inforce what everybody has learned about Romney and help Romney keep his gains. If he does that, things will be looking very good, indeed.
I'm not really expecting that to happen. Smiling Joe is an experienced old coot, and his gaffes are generally limited to the stump, where he feels more relaxed and overconfident and shoots his mouth off. But we won't see Ryan having any Dan Quayle moments.
All that being said, let's not forget that the most important aspect of this is that Obama/Biden have a TERRIBLE record to defend, so Ryan has the advantage here.
This will be a more normal situation, where each side declares victory at the end. It will be useful, because issues that have been untested to date will come up, and they will try out how they want to address them. Ryan will come out somewhat ahead, and that will help things along.
Posted by: Optimizer at October 11, 2012 01:41 PM (As94z)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:42 PM (QxSug)
I dunno. I just basically disagree with ace that it's in the bag for Joe.
Well, wait and see I guess...
Posted by: HH at October 11, 2012 01:42 PM (v+ExF)
Biden will certainly step in it because Ryan will not accept his BS at face value ... which will cause Biden to ramp up the BS and that leads to disaster ...
of note, being all "folksy" while sitting at a table won't look good on TV ... Bidens best stage is on his feet where he can use his hands and body language ...
Posted by: JeffC at October 11, 2012 01:42 PM (A3tpD)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at October 11, 2012 01:42 PM (FGyIi)
Posted by: jakeman at October 11, 2012 01:43 PM (96M6e)
Joe Biden: (Two minutes of silence while he thinks)
Moderator:Vice-President Biden?
Joe Biden: Uh... No.
Moderator: Congressman Ryan. While it is true that you are one of 435 others in Congress, while there is only one President and one Vice President it has been noted by a number of women on the conservative side that you appear to be somewhat fit. Some have said that your exercise program, P90-X, is the express province of cheese-eating , pasty white men, who use terms such as 'frozen tundra' to describe what others would refer to as a football field with a light dusting of snow. Is there any possible way you can excuse yourself for the sacrilege you are committing against our nation?
Congressman Ryan: Wut?
Moderator: We're sorry, your time is up. We'll record that as a 'no'.
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at October 11, 2012 01:43 PM (feFL6)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at October 11, 2012 01:43 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 11, 2012 01:43 PM (jUytm)
Posted by: teej says go K-State at October 11, 2012 01:43 PM (RYVE/)
Posted by: Countrysquire at October 11, 2012 01:43 PM (GNaYV)
Posted by: Up with people! at October 11, 2012 01:43 PM (kzFo5)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:44 PM (QxSug)
The lady sounded like she had been listening to people bashing obumbles all day.
Good.
Posted by: Courtesy Flush at October 11, 2012 01:44 PM (tkbF8)
Posted by: JackStraw at October 11, 2012 01:45 PM (TMB3S)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at October 11, 2012 01:45 PM (FGyIi)
@258
I could I forget about Ryan man-handling Obama? Yeah, there's reason for optimism. It's just a question of HOW good this comes out, and whether it will be enough to effect the race.
Posted by: Optimizer at October 11, 2012 01:45 PM (As94z)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 11, 2012 01:45 PM (e0xKF)
Posted by: SH at October 11, 2012 01:45 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at October 11, 2012 01:46 PM (i0App)
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:46 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: dantesed at October 11, 2012 01:46 PM (U/Zbr)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at October 11, 2012 01:46 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: Torch-Wielding Villager at October 11, 2012 01:46 PM (sTS/8)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 11, 2012 01:47 PM (jUytm)
VP debates don't generally have an impact on the election
-----------------------------------------------
I and others here have been trying to tell the rest of you that this election is different. This debate will certainly matter. The electorate is awake.
Posted by: Soona at October 11, 2012 01:47 PM (6szqB)
That should count for something, shouldn't it?
Posted by: © Sponge at October 11, 2012 01:47 PM (UK9cE)
Ryan will hammer Obama and his record while Biden tries to dazzle with bullshit.
Posted by: davidt at October 11, 2012 01:48 PM (8/bPb)
Posted by: gmannyc at October 11, 2012 05:39 PM (tzMxd)
Tonight isn't townhall.
Posted by: Tami at October 11, 2012 01:48 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: Half Zombie Roger Ebert at October 11, 2012 01:48 PM (/YJYi)
------------
You've got that right. The crazies and lefties (redundant, I know) have a permanent encampment at his office in Janesville. It's not like he hasn't been battle-tested.
Also, Scott Walker calls him every couple of days and talks to him about stuff. And prays with him. Good guy to have on your team, eh?
Posted by: mama winger in paul ryan's district at October 11, 2012 01:48 PM (P6QsQ)
Posted by: thunderb at October 11, 2012 01:49 PM (LqDII)
Posted by: soothsayer at October 11, 2012 01:49 PM (jUytm)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 11, 2012 01:49 PM (e0xKF)
Posted by: RKinRoanoke at October 11, 2012 01:49 PM (DOEXI)
Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at October 11, 2012 01:50 PM (iL9Kk)
Posted by: cajun carrot at October 11, 2012 01:50 PM (UZQM8)
I agree with Ace, Palin not only held her own against Biden, but in my opinion one (admittedly I am somewhat biased, though I grade Republicans very tough). But the fundamentals were baked in at that point. Nothing could stop Obama. Facts on the ground affect our percpetion of events. That is what is going to happen here. Assuming no major gaffes by either side, Ryan is going to come out ahead. Because the fundamentals are in Romney's favor.
Posted by: SH at October 11, 2012 01:50 PM (gmeXX)
255 One thing in Ryan's favor is he's a Catholic and when they try the 'war on women'...
Biden is Catholic too....supposedly.
So, yeah....if Biden starts in with that 'war on women' stuff, I hope Ryan pounces on it.
Biden went around with a 'smudge' on his forehead one time, to display what a 'good Catholic' he was.
I forget what was going on at the time.
But it seemed like it was all for show...since I'd never seen him do that before.
Posted by: wheatie at October 11, 2012 01:51 PM (l5RhJ)
Posted by: Soona at October 11, 2012 05:47 PM (6szqB)
They certainly mattered in the GOP primaries. This election year IS different. People are discounting all the ads, promotions, web videos, and surrogates and are taking a look at the candidates themselves, unvarnished.
That is why Obama has tanked in the polls, because he was unmasked by HoneyBadger Mitt.
Posted by: NWConservative at October 11, 2012 01:51 PM (M1gmo)
The VP's are usually the "bad" cops, right? So the "bad" stuff will be thrown around. The debased base are mad because Obarfy was not angry enough and failed to mention the 47% meme. So, you know dang well Ryan is ready for that one.
I want Biden to attack Ryan, like a rabid dog. Maybe his dentures will fly out. Maybe he will be red of face and shaking with wrath. Imagine those optics with a calm Ryan looking at him with pity and a "bless your heart" thrown in for good measure.
Paul Ryan can simply bat the shrieking away, talking softly so not to scare the insane person next to him in need of a tranquilizer dart and straight-jacket. Again, give him enough rope...
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, unbanned, ready to get this done at October 11, 2012 01:51 PM (baL2B)
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at October 11, 2012 01:51 PM (e0xKF)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:51 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Boomer Redneque knows Mohammad was a goat-fucking kiddie-raper at October 11, 2012 01:52 PM (eQnzo)
---
Yeah, but, but Fundamentalist hate Catholics.
Posted by: sTevo at October 11, 2012 01:52 PM (VMcEw)
After all, weren't they explicitly NOT born that way?
Posted by: AmishDude at October 11, 2012 01:52 PM (T0NGe)
Posted by: Up with people! at October 11, 2012 01:52 PM (kzFo5)
lets go Ryan! ruin Roger Eberts evening.
Posted by: exceller at October 11, 2012 01:53 PM (ROGMG)
Posted by: teej says go K-State at October 11, 2012 01:53 PM (6Zy+s)
That is more true than ever because aren't all of our politicians already lawyers?
There's a farmer in East Texas off highway 82 that has a double decker port-a-potty next to the road. On the top it says Politicians and on the bottom it says Voters. Quite fitting.
Posted by: © Sponge at October 11, 2012 01:53 PM (UK9cE)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:53 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Countrysquire at October 11, 2012 01:54 PM (GNaYV)
First, whether the questions are asked or not...we're going to be hearing from Ryan about Libya, about F&F, about Israel, about China. It doesn't matter if Joe 'Sippy Cup' Biden lays on the folksy charm with a trowel...there is no way he can address those issues without making Obama's administration look even worse.
Ditto for a number of domestic issues. A nice hot cup of Solyndra is coming his way, and unless there's a nice face saving way of dipping his toes into that subject, he's going to lose on that/those issues too.
Sure, what's her name will try running interference for Biden...but if Ryan plays it right, even that will make the Oministration look bad.
Don't discount brains on the right, Ace.
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 11, 2012 01:54 PM (L7hol)
if you get a hard questions than you give the secret security guys a secret
sign and they run out like its is a al queda guys in the room and they carry
and then its all like shows that youre are more importent than the other guy
plus also you dont have to answer it way better move than doing the
fake heart or stroke attack gets good news appeals and such
Posted by: Jose Canseco's Gristle Encased Head at October 11, 2012 01:54 PM (+lsX1)
Posted by: Joe Biden at October 11, 2012 01:54 PM (e4gFq)
Posted by: Soona at October 11, 2012 01:54 PM (6szqB)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at October 11, 2012 01:55 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: Fritz at October 11, 2012 01:55 PM (vm7ot)
HEY ACE....TELL RYAN NOT TO SHOW UP!! You pathetic analysis as usual just like your STUPID BUTT LICK of Clinton's DNC Speech is disgusting. Paul....Stay home....look at Ace's Diatribe....YOU CANNOT WIN...Biden is too smart and great ....you will suck and stink.
Maybe Ace should be Biden's Press Secretary....what a dumb analysis and off mark as usual. Ace cowers all the time and has no backbone.
Biden is a second class twit. Just point him in th right direction and he will drive himself off the cliff.
Ace does not praise of Ryan at all...says nothing about Ryan's grasp of the issues....nor does he mention how Paul stuffed Obama in a Healthcare forum but that matters little to DUECE....Biden has already won.....Paul stay home...Ace of Ignorance thinks you have no chance....Biden is too good for you...Maybe Ace loves OLD MEN...first Clinton and Biden.
Thankl God Ace is not involved in any campaign. He is weak, cowardly, easily duped, moronic and clueless.
GO JOE...Ace is behind you!
Paul the real conservatives know you will easily win because not only are you articulate you are smart....you can easily hold your own and your command of numbers will confound the Superman of Ace's Wet Dream known as Biden!
Be glad Paul...Ace will not be in your corner...he is cowering in Biden's...need a bottle Ace?
Posted by: bluerose75 at October 11, 2012 01:55 PM (HDcKc)
The first time I really noticed that handsome Ryan lad was at the Obamacare hearings. He totally schooled Obama (remember those optics, folks, of Barry sneaking in the "subtle" middle finger).
I have no doubt that Paul Ryan is ready for this.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, unbanned, ready to get this done at October 11, 2012 01:55 PM (baL2B)
Posted by: Tony Horton at October 11, 2012 01:56 PM (mX8oo)
Posted by: Optimizer at October 11, 2012 01:56 PM (As94z)
Posted by: Chris P at October 11, 2012 01:57 PM (LuvqF)
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at October 11, 2012 01:57 PM (UU0OF)
Posted by: Craig Poe at October 11, 2012 01:57 PM (BVkEs)
Posted by: cvb at October 11, 2012 01:57 PM (C4j9X)
Don't discount brains on the right, Ace.
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at October 11, 2012 05:54 PM (L7hol)
Oh I know that Raddatz will be running interference for for Biden, she had Obama attending her FREAKING wedding with Julius Genachowski, the FCC chairman who is running roughshod over the law. Yeah real "objective" moderator we got there!
Posted by: NWConservative at October 11, 2012 01:57 PM (M1gmo)
Posted by: SH at October 11, 2012 01:57 PM (gmeXX)
Ryan has been preparing for weeks and weeks and has done 9 full mock 90 minute debates. Biden only started to prep on a crash course study after Romney thrashed Pbama last wednesday.
Posted by: Serious Cat at October 11, 2012 05:14 PM (CofEF)
Yes, less pressure on Ryan now , more-on Biden.
Posted by: Temper Tantrum at October 11, 2012 01:57 PM (AWmfW)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at October 11, 2012 01:58 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 01:58 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: teej says go K-State at October 11, 2012 05:53 PM (6Zy+s)
I hope it does.
I hope Ryan comes back with: "Sex is a choice. When a couple engages in sex, it's up to them making that decision to protect themselves appropriately should they not be intending pregnancy. If they choose not to take those precautions, why is it the responsibility of the taxpayer to "take care of it." for them? In the case of medication for birth control, there are instances where a woman is prescribed due to a medical condition OTHER than just preventing pregnancies. These prescriptions now become medication, not birth control. I'm not against giving people medication necessary to assist in living a healthy life. I am not for gouging the taxpayer for the decisions of others."
Posted by: © Sponge at October 11, 2012 01:58 PM (UK9cE)
Posted by: teej says go K-State at October 11, 2012 05:53 PM (6Zy+s)
-------------------------------------------
Abortion is easy. All that has to be said is that it's the law, and until RvW is overturned it will remain so.
If RvW is overturned, the question is for the individual states then. Ryan can pontificate (as Mitt did) on the beauty of the 10th Amendment.
Posted by: Soona at October 11, 2012 01:59 PM (6szqB)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at October 11, 2012 02:00 PM (lOmbq)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 02:00 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 05:58 PM (QxSug)
-----------------------------------------------
THIS! DOUBLE THIS!
Posted by: Soona at October 11, 2012 02:00 PM (6szqB)
Seriously, if Ryan wins and the ratings are low they'll just memory hole it.
They're lazy more than anything.
Posted by: eleven at October 11, 2012 02:01 PM (fsLdt)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at October 11, 2012 02:01 PM (i0vBR)
The only thing I'm worried about is Slow Joe knocking over one of the TV lights and the stage catching fire.
Posted by: Ernie McCracken at October 11, 2012 02:02 PM (ZETiK)
Posted by: Countrysquire at October 11, 2012 02:03 PM (GNaYV)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 02:03 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at October 11, 2012 02:04 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: gmannyc at October 11, 2012 02:05 PM (tzMxd)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 02:06 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Mayday at October 11, 2012 02:10 PM (F3s39)
Joe: "I'm a foreign policy guru."
Paul: "Libya."
Joe: "What about the 47% remark?"
Paul: "Uncle Omar. Auntie Zeituni."
Joe: "Romney's tax breaks for rich people..."
Paul: "Where's your budget?"
Joe: "Derp."
Paul: "Thank you all, and God bless America."
Posted by: wth at October 11, 2012 02:12 PM (wAQA5)
oh, and Romney is up 7 in Florida.
Sitting presidents never win when they lose ground.
This is over.
All ryan has to do is not be stuttering clusterfuck onstage.
--------
What poll is this?
Posted by: Rich at October 11, 2012 02:14 PM (pnHKr)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at October 11, 2012 02:14 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: steevy at October 11, 2012 02:14 PM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 02:15 PM (QxSug)
(I know it's true...but dammit!)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at October 11, 2012 02:16 PM (zpqa2)
--
Not only that, but her husband (at the time) attended the Obama's wedding the next year, and Obama appointed him as FCC chairman. This is so corrupt. At a minimum ABC should be required to announce this conflict of interest (on camera) at the beginning of tonight's debate. I'd faint if they did though.
Ryan has a trickier path to navigate tonight that Romney did. Joe has more actual relevant experience than Obama did. And he may be a half wit, but that's a half more than Obama. I really hope Ryan can goad him into saying something stupid, preferably in a way that directly makes Obama look bad.
Posted by: Mayday at October 11, 2012 02:17 PM (F3s39)
Posted by: joeindc44 found the last comment to be vile, particularly vile at October 11, 2012 02:19 PM (QxSug)
Posted by: Sphynx at October 11, 2012 02:19 PM (j2McS)
Posted by: lonetown at October 11, 2012 02:20 PM (ScVPC)
364 Aww, come on, *nobody* quoted lyrics from "Everybody Knows?"
Not a one?
Loose shit, people.
You mean Leonard Cohen's 'Everybody Knows'?
"Everybody knows that the dice are loaded,
Everybody knows that the game is fixed.."
Posted by: wheatie at October 11, 2012 02:21 PM (l5RhJ)
Posted by: Joe Biden at October 11, 2012 02:22 PM (HNn1q)
Posted by: Gran at October 11, 2012 02:28 PM (CPX+P)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at October 11, 2012 02:36 PM (bxiXv)
So Ace, you're telling me that Biden has got the moron vote locked up tighter than a bullfrog's waterproof rectum? Who woulda thunk it?
And it's also true that no bullfrog is safe in Barney Frank's Boston.
Posted by: Comanche Voter at October 11, 2012 02:37 PM (oe1aw)
No need for "lower expectations" -- Joe Biden's biggest foe is himself, big smile and all.
"Three letter word: J-O-B-S"
Posted by: panzernashorn at October 11, 2012 02:41 PM (BAnPT)
At least Obama has a smidgen (however tiny) of self-awareness, which is not the case with Slow Joe. Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at October 11, 2012 05:25 PM (6zgse)
<b>
</b>
That's the thing about Biden - he never seems aware that his gaffes are gaffes. And they have become more frequent than they were 4 years ago.
<b>
If Biden lets a real howler slip (like calling Obama "Barack America"), Ryan's muscles will get a good workout - his facial muscles, because he'll be trying to restrain himself from laughing.
All this talk about how Ryan is so "inexperienced." For Chrissake he's not Howdy Doody fresh off the farm. He's been a Congressman now for what, 14 years? I've seen him more than hold his own on Sunday morning talking head shows, where he is facing both a hostile Dem pol and an hostile interviewer. He'll do fine - just by being himself.
Posted by: Donna V. at October 11, 2012 02:49 PM (dcIHW)
The slightest hint of a gaff by Ryan and they'll declare Biden the winner.
Posted by: YIKES! at October 11, 2012 02:59 PM (6v/Tu)
agreed.
Of the three so-called GOP "young guns" Ryan's the sharp shooter.
Posted by: panzernashorn at October 11, 2012 03:00 PM (BAnPT)
funny thing (not), the mfm was slow admitting just how badly Obama failed. So who cares what the mfm declares -- they can't even report the news of our Ambassador and crew being assassinated while the White House refused to respond to emergency communications without blaming a US resident.
Posted by: panzernashorn at October 11, 2012 03:03 PM (BAnPT)
Posted by: Boomer Redneque knows Mohammad was a goat-fucking kiddie-raper at October 11, 2012 03:21 PM (eQnzo)
"That guy over there who babbled all that stupid shit - he's one heartbeat away from the presidency. Think about that."
Posted by: @PurpAv at October 11, 2012 03:29 PM (OQNdB)
My advice to Ryan would be to just use the opportunity to talk directly to the American people and don't even bother trying to humiliate the retard that's sharing the stage with him.
Biden is already a national joke, even kool-aid drinking Democrats know this. Are a few more gaffes really going to change this?
Ryan should be assertive, but classy, let Biden make a jackass out of himself trying to show the country how super smart he is.
Posted by: McAdams at October 11, 2012 03:45 PM (OpqAi)
1. bury him in details - biden is simply not capable of going toe to toe with a wonk. period. lots of numbers and lots of statistics and specific policy points. bury him and confuse him. interrupt him often by questioning his numbers.
2. benghazi - biden's supposed strength is on foreign policy which is ridiculous, but harrass the hell out of him on any foreign policy by referring to a recently murdered ambassador. "we killed OBL" oh really "benghazi, bitch...you own it"
3. where's the budget - does anyone know the budget better than ryan? this goes hand in hand with the details point, but ryan knows the budget, and biden and obama haven't produced a single budget.
4. funding for any and all liberal programs - see benghazi. the president was ok spending money on cash for clunkers but not on security detail for our ambassador. same will work for the sesame street argument.
5. the obama recovery and the jobs numbers - see details - time to take apart the bad numbers that are the real economic picture.
Posted by: matt foley at October 11, 2012 04:22 PM (bY+Nu)
Also bonus points if he sort of jogs on stage. My husband and I saw him do this the other day on teevee. In his noggin he may think HE is Obama.
I guess he is practicing now saying "Kentucky" instead of "Kansas."
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, unbanned, ready to get this done at October 11, 2012 04:31 PM (baL2B)
As if your life depended on it.
Because it does.
Posted by: PJ at October 11, 2012 06:33 PM (DQHjw)
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, unbanned, ready to get this done at October 11, 2012 04:33 PM (baL2B)
Posted by: Mr Wonderful at October 11, 2012 04:53 PM (6/bOE)
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Posted by: Bruce at October 11, 2012 01:04 PM (JI+T4)