March 01, 2012
— DrewM The First Amendment? Never heard of it, must be an internet thing.
The Senate voted 51-48 to kill the amendment, which was offered by Senate Republican Minority Leader Roy Blunt of Missouri as an add-on to the transportation funding bill. Blunt and fellow Republicans cast the amendment as a fight to protect First Amendment rights (which include the freedom of religion.) Prior to the vote, Blunt argued that the language should be deemed noncontroversial by his colleagues, stating on the Senate floor that every member of the Senate, barring some of the most recently elected members, "have voted for bills that have this language in them."...
The future of Thursday's amendment in the closely-divided Senate hung on decisions from a handful of Senate centrists. Retiring Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine voted with the majority of Democrats to table the amendment, while three centrist Democrats-- Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Ben Nelson of Nebraska-- crossed party lines to vote with Republicans in favor of the amendment.
I think it's important to fight for religious freedom but I think making a stand there concedes too much ground from the start. Why in the world is the federal government in the business of telling insurance companies what has to be included in their policies? Oh right...ObamaCare. We need to be careful that we don't win the religious exemption fight only to be left holding the bag on freedom infringements that have nothing to do with religion.
As for the Democrats "argument" that this is about "women's rights" that's insane. Women have the right to the pill, they simply don't have the right to expect others to pay for it.
Sometimes I think conservatives get too hung up on the fight of the moment and the battle right in front of us while losing sight of the bigger war...government encroachment on freedom. We need to fight the immediate fights but we should always tie it to the larger war.
Posted by: DrewM at
09:38 AM
| Comments (199)
Post contains 354 words, total size 2 kb.
We are LOSING this battle. Our side needs to get serious and show some passion here. We are being violated and are pulling the Clayton Williams "just lie back and enjoy it" approach.
This cannot stand.
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 09:41 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 09:42 AM (9vRt8)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at March 01, 2012 09:42 AM (8y9MW)
Once more: You have no right to what someone else must produce (or provide).
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at March 01, 2012 09:43 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 09:44 AM (9vRt8)
And what greater infringement of freedom is there for the God-fearing citizens of the United States than a government mandate issued by the Executive Branch limiting the exercise of religion to the confines of a building devoted to worship?
Posted by: mrp at March 01, 2012 09:44 AM (HjPtV)
She's dead, you know.
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 09:45 AM (9vRt8)
Posted by: AndrewsDad at March 01, 2012 09:45 AM (C2//T)
Posted by: McLovin at March 01, 2012 09:45 AM (j0IcY)
Fortunately, the odds of Obama, Reid, or Pelosi having any power a year from now are poor.
In the meantime, this is going to be standard operating procedure. The GOP will find ways to force a vote on items that should be obvious, and the Dems will kill the legislation. At this point, all legislation is only to get Dems on the record making votes that will hurt them in reelection.
And the Dems are taking the bait, God bless them.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at March 01, 2012 09:46 AM (uhHzD)
Posted by: blaster at March 01, 2012 09:46 AM (7vSU0)
Posted by: BlackOrchid at March 01, 2012 09:47 AM (SB0V2)
The problem remains, neither RS nor Mitt make that argument, and I have to think it's because they don't want to.
Posted by: Sarahw at March 01, 2012 09:47 AM (LYwCh)
Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at March 01, 2012 09:48 AM (48wze)
He's got a point.
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 09:48 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: mrp at March 01, 2012 01:44 PM (HjPtV)
Because the rights of non God-fearing citizens of the United States are equally important.
Would it be a great victory if the Catholic Church is freed from ObamaCare mandates but a small business isn't?
Posted by: DrewM. at March 01, 2012 09:48 AM (2f1Rs)
Indeed, one of the sweet mysteries of life is the right to determine your own handicap.
Posted by: toby928© at March 01, 2012 09:49 AM (GTbGH)
I've posted this before, but I'm really insulted by this progg bullshit meme that adult women are so stupid and helpless they can't acquire simple lifestyle accessories like BCP without Big Daddy Government swooping in and handing them out.
And ladies! If you want a group plan that covers abortions, go work at Public School or EvilInternationalMegaCorp instead of Catholic School. It's not rocket science.
Posted by: HeatherRadish at March 01, 2012 09:50 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Damiano at March 01, 2012 09:50 AM (A2+pr)
Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2012 09:51 AM (tqwMN)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 09:52 AM (9vRt8)
Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston would be forever alone without AoS at March 01, 2012 09:53 AM (ijjAe)
Posted by: 52 Senators at March 01, 2012 09:53 AM (lZBBB)
She's dead, you know.
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 01:45 PM (9vRt
She had strange bedfellows, so there's a chance......
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 09:54 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: BlueFalcon in Boston would be forever alone without AoS at March 01, 2012 09:55 AM (ijjAe)
Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at March 01, 2012 01:48 PM (48wze)
Seriously, what does taking a pill that may cause you cancer have to do with women's health issues?
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 09:55 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 01, 2012 09:55 AM (vzLhi)
This. X1000
Anything short of this is theft, plain and simple.
Posted by: Damiano at March 01, 2012 01:50 PM (A2+pr)
Yup, I have a RIGHT to be secure in my person, and papers... I have a RIGHT to my property, and the Fruits of MY labor...
OTHER people do NOT have a RIGHT to MY Property...
Posted by: 52 Senators at March 01, 2012 09:55 AM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Ezra Klein at March 01, 2012 09:55 AM (wxh1z)
Posted by: Keith Arnold at March 01, 2012 09:56 AM (Jdtsu)
I guess trampling on religious freedom is what she meant by bi-partisanship.
Posted by: booger at March 01, 2012 09:56 AM (29wvc)
Posted by: SH at March 01, 2012 09:56 AM (gmeXX)
It's looking like we will have about 54 Senators next year, with some of our problem children (Snowe, Hatch, and Lugar) gone.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at March 01, 2012 09:57 AM (uhHzD)
Posted by: Damiano at March 01, 2012 09:58 AM (A2+pr)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 01:52 PM (9vRt
You know you're a fucking idiot, right?
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 09:58 AM (UK9cE)
Fine. Then I am going to keep eating all of the stuff that they say is bad for me, quit exercising, take up smoking, start drinking, and start shooting up all sorts of illegal drugs.
They want me to pay for THEIR choices, I'm gonna make them pay through the nose for mine.....
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at March 01, 2012 09:58 AM (0xqzf)
And the thing that pisses me off is that our side is doing this on purpose for some reason.
This isn't some sort wizard science 3D chessery, this was just a dumb move.
Tactically, there was no reason to put forward this amendment.
Posted by: McLovin at March 01, 2012 09:59 AM (j0IcY)
Posted by: SH at March 01, 2012 10:00 AM (gmeXX)
We need to be careful that we don't win the religious exemption fight only to be left holding the bag on freedom infringements that have nothing to do with religion.
That's why I don't know how to feel about this. On the one hand, it's an important issue. On the other hand, I can see the squishes taking the "look, proles, we threw you a bone go chew on that" position. So I don't know what to think.
As always, where are my batteries, bitch? Seriously, if I'm paying for Trampy McTramperson's birth control, she can pay for my batteries.
Is someone socking librul toll or can I stompy? It's been a bad fucking day, I have a migraine and I am in the mood to let fly.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at March 01, 2012 10:00 AM (VtjlW)
All focus must be on winning this election if we are to have and preserve a recognizeable America for future generations. Put this horrible sideshow of primary season to rest and begin the real work.
Posted by: Cato at March 01, 2012 10:01 AM (ysk3V)
As long as you describe the boots you are wearing.
Posted by: fluffy at March 01, 2012 10:02 AM (vRSeu)
Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2012 10:02 AM (tqwMN)
Posted by: blaster at March 01, 2012 10:02 AM (7vSU0)
I say go for it. It's what Andrew would have wanted.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at March 01, 2012 10:02 AM (uhHzD)
"Never heard of it." WTF! That's my line!
Posted by: charlie gibson at March 01, 2012 10:03 AM (+56Bh)
And that's what it's about. More fucking free loaders who want everyone else to take care of them
Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 01, 2012 10:03 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: Cato at March 01, 2012 10:03 AM (ysk3V)
Posted by: Damiano at March 01, 2012 10:04 AM (A2+pr)
Yeah, getting Democrats on the record voting against the religious freedom of their constituencies, especially in the rust belt is completely useless.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at March 01, 2012 10:04 AM (uhHzD)
The "larger war".
Jeezus, Drewm. There wouldn't even have been a USofA if not for people who first and foremost and above everything else wanted religious freedom.
That's why they came here. Fled from places where religious "freedom" wasn't even a concept. It's the first and foremost American invention, before there was America.
The core of America, of the idea of America, is religious freedom.
Religious freedom IS the "larger war".
C'mon, dude. Just ...c'mon.
Posted by: davisbr at March 01, 2012 10:06 AM (EuWFS)
Posted by: TendStl at March 01, 2012 10:07 AM (TIWCh)
In response, R's should seriously propose the following:
1. People in this country have the RIGHT to bear arms.
2. Firearms are a legitimate and important element of many Americans means of defending their homes.
3. Therefore, we put forth the American Home Security Act which will mandate that all home insurance companies provide "free of charge" a gun to any american home owner or renter.
The only thing tastier than owning a gun is making a little pu**y liberal pay for it for you. I would also love to hear their argument for why this would be illegal given Obama and contraception mandate.
Posted by: Scomo at March 01, 2012 10:08 AM (xrLJW)
Posted by: BigGator5 at March 01, 2012 10:08 AM (k/jYM)
DAMMIT!! He said that in public?!??
Code red, people! The chair is against the wall!
Posted by: fluffy, VRWC at March 01, 2012 10:08 AM (vRSeu)
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 10:09 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: ace at March 01, 2012 10:09 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk, remembering AB, RIP at March 01, 2012 10:09 AM (r+9M6)
Posted by: HeatherRadish at March 01, 2012 10:09 AM (ZKzrr)
------
Yes, I posted. My fault.
Posted by: real joe at March 01, 2012 10:09 AM (EFS7w)
So as long as churches are freed from ObamaCare everything will be cool? There are no larger implications for freedom so long as religions are spared the yoke of the state?
Posted by: DrewM. at March 01, 2012 10:10 AM (2f1Rs)
padded closets, then when they're about to pop, chain them spread-eagle
to hospital beds, just to make sure that unwanted baby comes out
alright. GOD BLESS RICK SANTORUM.
Posted by: librul troll
I believe you need to be locked in a closet and left to die like all the babies Obama deems should die.
Fuck you.
Posted by: mpfs at March 01, 2012 10:10 AM (iYbLN)
I didn't mention the Catholic Church for a reason, Drew. The defeat of the Blunt Amendment is an attack by the government against ALL religious communities. The Obama administration is attempting to establish the predicate that religious freedom can be limited by the executive's regulatory power. If they get away with that, then the other First Amendment rights are on the chopping block.
As for your "all or none" argument - the House has already passed an ObamaCare repeal bill. The ObamaCare $600 Form 1099 requirement has already been killed. IIRC, the insurance mandate takes effect in August, 2012.
Posted by: mrp at March 01, 2012 10:11 AM (HjPtV)
Posted by: The Mega Independent at March 01, 2012 10:11 AM (MPdSR)
Posted by: El Kabong at March 01, 2012 10:12 AM (99eo4)
Posted by: logprof at March 01, 2012 10:12 AM (CE2wR)
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 01, 2012 10:14 AM (eHIJJ)
There will be consequences 11/06/12.
Posted by: mpfs at March 01, 2012 10:14 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: Tom Friedman at March 01, 2012 10:15 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: El Kabong at March 01, 2012 02:12 PM (99eo4)
Winner.
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 10:15 AM (UK9cE)
Actually, I don't distinguish between religions that have a diety and just old-fashioned belief. Either in getting things out of the public square or in paying for them.
If Marx can be taught in schools, then so can Aquinas. It's no less a faith because there isn't a god.
Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2012 10:16 AM (T0NGe)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 01:45 PM
So is your dick. Died from repeated beatings
Posted by: kbdabear at March 01, 2012 10:17 AM (Y+DPZ)
Our own Laura W. made that exact point a couple of weeks ago.
Posted by: Andy at March 01, 2012 10:17 AM (5Rurq)
Posted by: robtr at March 01, 2012 10:17 AM (MtwBb)
Posted by: cherry at March 01, 2012 02:17 PM (OhYCU)
Too bad Barry's parents didn't practice birth control
Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 01, 2012 10:18 AM (1Jaio)
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at March 01, 2012 10:18 AM (eHIJJ)
Posted by: kbdabear at March 01, 2012 10:18 AM (Y+DPZ)
I think it avalanches from there, to be honest. The religious exemption becomes a conscience exemption (note that even non-churches are tax-exempt) and then becomes a general exemption.
Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2012 10:18 AM (T0NGe)
1st amendment, pfft. Holder said the other day the 1st amendment is the reason they can tell insurance companies and religious organizations what to do.
1984 is their playbook.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk, remembering AB, RIP at March 01, 2012 10:20 AM (r+9M6)
O'bumblefuck needs to explain himself here. I mean, he said we didn't understand OfuckstickCare because we're too stupid, so, he needs to get out there and explain "completely down to earth, in a language we can easily understand."
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 10:20 AM (UK9cE)
Holy hell that can happen? Where is the government to protect me from this?
Posted by: NC Ref at March 01, 2012 10:20 AM (/izg2)
Precisely. My sister and mother, are big pro-choicers and feminists. I've won the mandate argument not by talking about the pill, which muddies the water with them, but by talking about whether or not government has the inherent right to force people to buy a product they don't want.
If you really want their heads to explode, ask if they'd be okay with Rick Santorum wielding the same power and going super pro-life with their health care.
Posted by: taylork at March 01, 2012 10:21 AM (5wsU9)
Posted by: ace at March 01, 2012 10:22 AM (nj1bB)
@ace. "You're going to have to start making room for people who are not religious but who will zealously support your right to practice your religion freely."
No, it's not a slap in the face.
It's history.
That's why it's in the first amendment, why its the first words of the first amendment. That's why the idea of God permeates the foundational documents.
You can't rewrite it. You can't deny it.
That is ...you can. Ignore it. But what's left has no foundation, and no core. I'll see your ethics and raise you religion ...such a premise is self-defeating.
So ignore it. At your peril. To paraphrase a quote, the foundation that was built on stone, is re-erected upon sand.
...and is simply ahistorical nonsense.
...I'm kind of shocked to read that response from you, actually.
Maybe I got the implication you were making wrong? Maybe you misunderstood me?
The historial fact is, the religious foundation of the core American values expressed in the foundational documents are what makes it possible for people who *aren't* religious to participate and enjoy the freedom, that those who sought for freedom to practice their religious beliefs without state interference, created.
People like me made room for you. Even to the point of not liking us. I'm good with that.
...but now we're getting shoved aside? What will be lost is far greater than anything you could imagine.
Posted by: davisbr at March 01, 2012 10:23 AM (EuWFS)
Hello. I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
Posted by: Lorena Bobbitt at March 01, 2012 10:23 AM (eHIJJ)
Posted by: blaster at March 01, 2012 10:23 AM (7vSU0)
I think she wants to be the Solyndra of whores, though.
Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2012 10:23 AM (T0NGe)
Posted by: El Kabong at March 01, 2012 10:24 AM (99eo4)
Excerpt:
"Under the Blunt amendment, not only would church-affiliated organizations such as Catholic hospitals, universities, schools and charities have been free to opt out of the coverage, any non-religious employer with a moral objection would have qualified."
LINK: tinyurl.com/75dwp5b
Posted by: mrp at March 01, 2012 10:24 AM (HjPtV)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 01, 2012 10:24 AM (KreG+)
Posted by: Lincolntf at March 01, 2012 10:24 AM (hiMsy)
Posted by: NC Ref at March 01, 2012 02:20 PM (/izg2)
I tried!!!
Posted by: Christine O'Donnell at March 01, 2012 10:25 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: Roy at March 01, 2012 10:25 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: AmishDude at March 01, 2012 10:25 AM (T0NGe)
Posted by: Arms Merchant at March 01, 2012 10:25 AM (VKRmb)
Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2012 10:25 AM (tqwMN)
Posted by: ace at March 01, 2012 10:25 AM (nj1bB)
As Mark Steyn pointed out repeatedly when Obamacare was being debated, nationalized healthcare fundamentally alters the relationship between citizen and state.
This current flap is just the tip of the iceberg.
Posted by: Andy at March 01, 2012 10:26 AM (5Rurq)
Posted by: El Kabong at March 01, 2012 10:27 AM (99eo4)
/pedantic
Which would make them fascists more than socialists ala Goldberg's Liberal fascism. Socialists don't necessarily have to reward select supporters. Fascist do as a matter of politics. Notice how Obamacare was never intended to apply to all Americans. Some are still exempt. Notice that all this 'investment' in supposed green tech isn't raw research grants to uni's but the bulk goes to private firms.
/pedantic.
Posted by: weft cut notem [/i] at March 01, 2012 10:27 AM (dxTxt)
Hate to be all biblical on an atheist but, Babel isn't really meant to have a top. When you build monuments to your own glory you just keep building them.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Now Researching How to Awaken Azathoth at March 01, 2012 10:28 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: ace at March 01, 2012 10:28 AM (nj1bB)
The Democrat's idea of a compromise: The USCCB (and other religious leaders) have a year to get their affairs in order before they head off to prison for their beliefs.
Didn't we fight a Revolution and create a whole new country to PREVENT government from pulling shit like this?
Posted by: Nighthawk at March 01, 2012 10:28 AM (RSqz2)
Posted by: Arms Merchant at March 01, 2012 02:24 PM (VKRmb)
You can't spell 'Inventors' without 'Investors'... so, lay back and think of England.
Posted by: GM Bondholder at March 01, 2012 10:28 AM (wxh1z)
@ 107
They feel no restraint because they hate us and nothing less than subjugating us to their rule will do.
But I hate them more. And I WILL NOT bow to their demands or subject my Master Race to their faggotry.
You don't get your way, libtards. Fuck. You.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 01, 2012 10:29 AM (nTJrq)
There is a point which you stop in your tracks and say....no more.
I stand up and say no more.
Today is that day.
Posted by: mpfs at March 01, 2012 10:29 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: ace at March 01, 2012 10:29 AM (nj1bB)
Posted by: soothsayer at March 01, 2012 10:30 AM (LPRBM)
Health care is expensive because insurance paid for it for the last 70-odd years and thus there is no incentive for consumers to shop around and reduce costs. Insurance exists because of FDR's wage freezes.
Sometimes you wonder if liberals actually planned all of this out back in the 30s and 40s, or everything just happened to roll their way.
Posted by: Ian S. at March 01, 2012 10:30 AM (tqwMN)
Happening in Britain right now.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk, remembering AB, RIP at March 01, 2012 10:30 AM (r+9M6)
Any other voluntary exercise in commerce? So, like, murder-for-hire? That's economic commerce. Blackmail, how about blackmail? Heck, in blackmail the victim even sort of deserves it- if they hadn't done the embarrassing thing, they wouldn't be being blackmailed.
I'm going to guess you'll say something along the lines of "well of course not those, that would be absurd!" and you'd be right- no one advocates that those things be legal. Which is a moral judgement.
So the question is not if we'll prohibit any "voluntary exercise in commerce" but, rather, which ones we'll prohibit. And as soon as you can also guarantee (within reason, of course- not 100%) that I won't have to pay to clean up the messes junkies make, I'll agree that drugs can be legal.
Because part of my economic freedom should be not having to pay for the destructive consequences of others' choices.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) SMOD 2012 at March 01, 2012 10:31 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: El Kabong at March 01, 2012 10:31 AM (99eo4)
And that, right there, is proof that you don't listen.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at March 01, 2012 10:31 AM (bjRNS)
....
So just have the next administration charge every citizen and business with violating obamacare and then immediately pardon everyone. Double jeopardy win. lulz
Posted by: Tonic Dog at March 01, 2012 10:31 AM (X/+QT)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 10:32 AM (9vRt8)
This issue should bring atheists, agnostics, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc., together.
There is a greater purpose at work here than fighting about whether or not you believe in God Almighty.
Posted by: mpfs at March 01, 2012 10:33 AM (iYbLN)
That's because at the end of the day, that is what they really care about. Unfettered sexual freedom. I imagine that for a lot of leftists, sex is the the only joy in the their lives. The rest is a wasteland of hate and bile as far as the eye can see.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at March 01, 2012 10:33 AM (uhHzD)
Posted by: I, Barack, Punisher-in-Chief at March 01, 2012 10:33 AM (1ZF7c)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at March 01, 2012 10:34 AM (jucos)
There is no such point. There are always people who want to drag it further. The people who think it's gone just about far enough are then left in the dust ("useful idiots"). The only time it "stops" is at full blown communism when the power is concentrated the most, generally with one person and his offshoots. For the sake of argument, we can call that person "Emperor Jugears".
Posted by: The Mega Independent at March 01, 2012 10:34 AM (MPdSR)
The problem with the Drug War is that the mess it makes is arguably worse than the mess that the junkies make.
Or, more accurately, it enables junkies to make a horrible mess in Latin America simply by buying their product.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at March 01, 2012 10:34 AM (bjRNS)
Posted by: Riding Through The Desert On A Sock With No Name at March 01, 2012 10:34 AM (5TPEp)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 10:34 AM (9vRt8)
Kate Upton admits she was born a man.
Ace start growing a ponytail and playing jazz music.
Posted by: El Kabong at March 01, 2012 02:31 PM (99eo4)
GAAAAAAAAHHHH!!
*THUD*
Posted by: Nighthawk at March 01, 2012 10:36 AM (RSqz2)
Not the people at the top who are pushing this. All they care about is breaking down society.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at March 01, 2012 10:36 AM (MPdSR)
Why in the world is the federal government in the business of telling insurance companies what has to be included in their policies?
.
Bingo
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 01, 2012 10:36 AM (xtvQl)
This amendment was pointless in that all it did was provide cover for Democrats in conservative leaning states and again let's the MSM/Dems frame the GOP as against women's health.
Look at how this loss is being framed/will be framed. As the GOP wants to allow employers to have the ability to deny coverage for contraception.
If I felt that the GOP could fight a multi-front scorched earth battle I would be on board, but they can't
They should use all of their energies to fight Obamacare itself.
Posted by: McLovin at March 01, 2012 10:36 AM (j0IcY)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 02:34 PM (9vRt
--I see: if you're not singing from the 0bama Hymnal, you're whining.
I understand now, shitstain.
Posted by: logprof at March 01, 2012 10:37 AM (CE2wR)
Posted by: DailyDish at March 01, 2012 10:37 AM (EfPcB)
Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at March 01, 2012 10:38 AM (48wze)
about. Unfettered sexual freedom. I imagine that for a lot of leftists,
sex is the the only joy in the their lives. The rest is a wasteland of
hate and bile as far as the eye can see.
Not the people at the top who are pushing this. All they care about is breaking down society.
Posted by: at March 01, 2012 02:36 PM (MPdSR)
--As Steyn says often, sexual freedom is a great tool of the left since it distracts attention while more important and universal freedoms are slowly and systematically burgled.
Posted by: logprof at March 01, 2012 10:38 AM (CE2wR)
He's got a point.
****
If the taxpayers don't subsidize fucking on campus, there may not be fucking on campus.
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 01, 2012 10:39 AM (Hx5uv)
Not to get into semantics, but, Obama is not a socialist, he's a fascist.
Most leftists today are fascists, not socialists.
Posted by: Tonic Dog at March 01, 2012 10:39 AM (X/+QT)
Maybe it would wake up all people of goodwill to the tyranny.
Posted by: Jimbo at March 01, 2012 10:39 AM (O3R/2)
Posted by: librul troll
Are you really this dense?
I'm standing up for your right to be an asshole. If you want to be an asshole, be an asshole. I don't have to like it but there it is. Grow up. There are bigger things in this world than you wetting your pants. You talk about how you stand up for the little people, please, you get little plastic handcuffs slapped on your wrists at a protest and spend an hour at the local precinct and think you're a fucking hero.
Difference between me and you: I would go to jail or die to defend your right to be an asshole. You sir, are a coward.
Posted by: mpfs at March 01, 2012 10:40 AM (iYbLN)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 02:29 PM
Yet you can do something about that by stepping in front of a speeding bus. You'll be helping Mother Gaia by not wasting the air the rest of us breathe
The first world nations are reproducing at less than replacement rate while your beloved muzzies have five or six little Achmeds before papa muzzie beats mama into halal hamburger for showing an ankle while milking the goat. Maybe you should convince them to put the rubbers on, or just go home and get your fuckin' shine box
Posted by: kbdabear at March 01, 2012 10:40 AM (Y+DPZ)
***
The first amendment in the Bill of Rights could be your right to party like a rock star.
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 01, 2012 10:40 AM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: Lauren at March 01, 2012 10:41 AM (9piWm)
Posted by: tinsley at March 01, 2012 10:44 AM (oZfic)
Posted by: dagny loved Andrew at March 01, 2012 10:44 AM (u50z0)
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 01, 2012 10:44 AM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: logprof at March 01, 2012 02:38 PM (CE2wR)
The "opiate of the masses" as it were...
Posted by: Nighthawk at March 01, 2012 10:45 AM (RSqz2)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 02:34 PM (9vRt
What? What does "losing relevancy" have to do with the fact that the Government is telling the Catholic Church that it has to violate it's core beliefs?
Again, you know you're a fucking idiot, right?
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 10:46 AM (UK9cE)
And we aren't asking for freedom for human sacrifice or forced monasticism. All of these social norms you cite are thanks to centuries of western philosophy developing alongside western religion. You cannot say life, liberty, and property, are obvious rights, without giving due credit to the western concept of "creator".
Anyway you want pot? Fine enough evidence exists that the average person can use it recreationally for a lifetime without huge adverse issues.
Heroin? Meth? No way.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Now Researching How to Awaken Azathoth at March 01, 2012 10:46 AM (0q2P7)
So why is it that when you wish to slur someone, you use crude slang for female genitalia? You seem to find vagina contemptible.
You must really, really hate women.
Posted by: fluffy at March 01, 2012 10:48 AM (vRSeu)
Is it wrong that I keep hoping that if Mitt wins the Presidency that he names either Sarah Palin or Rick Santorum as HHS Secretary?
Let's see how much the liberals like the things that they are told that they MUST do, without any recourse precisely BECAUSE of the way that Obamacare is structured.....
I giggle like a schoolgirl every time I think about that -
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at March 01, 2012 10:48 AM (0xqzf)
@drewm "So as long as churches are freed from ObamaCare everything will be cool? There are no larger implications for freedom so long as religions are spared the yoke of the state?"
Actually, I don't give a crap about the Obamacare stuff (well, I'm adamently opposed to it for LOTS of reasons, constitutional & - now, tort - law reasons). But my observation is simply that that's the lesser fight.
I was responding to your "Sometimes I think conservatives get too hung up on the fight of the moment and the battle right in front of us while losing sight of the bigger war...government encroachment on freedom"
The bigger war? - The "government encroachment on freedom" is integral with religious freedoms; there would be no secular freedom if there weren't religious ones. Conceptually, and historically, the "encroachment" that formed us as a nation and a people was the reaction to government encroachment on **religious** freedom".
That's the core. You lose that fight, not a single subsequent battle you win will mean anything at all.
We will have lost. Obamacare is a piffle; it is bad legislation, unconstitutional, and bad tort law ...and an abridgment of common sense. A tactic.
But the HHS mandate is ...an astonishing breach of the concept of America. It's a strategy to change the nation.
My original comment was in reaction to losing sight of the "greater battle".
And I dunno if you were being sarcastic, but truly, if we lose sight of the importance of religious freedom, of freedom from government interference of the expression of our thoughts & beliefs, we will have lost all.
Take my money. Take my land.
But try and take my beliefs, and I will stand on that rock.
And **that** is what caused America to be.
Posted by: davisbr at March 01, 2012 10:49 AM (EuWFS)
Posted by: Damiano at March 01, 2012 10:49 AM (A2+pr)
131
No, I don't buy your claim that this one right is above all else. I would not so denigrate the others.
Posted by: ace at March 01, 2012 02:28 PM (nj1bB)
The hill to die on for me is personal liberty. I do get it that my liberty, meaning what I want to do with it, is not the same as yours or anyone else. I want to worship how I please. You approach that how you please. You and I have a right to conduct all of our affairs individually. Where I live, I see more and more "assholes with badges", pushing people around.
This is basic stuff, that the fascist in the White House and his handlers do not believe in. I want to live as I choose, barring injuring others. My hill to die on.
Posted by: tubal at March 01, 2012 10:52 AM (BoE3Z)
There is separation between Church and state. There is free exercise of religion. In an effort to protect the state from the church there also has to be effort to protect the church from the state to ensure free exercise thereof. This business where you say "practice whatever religion you like and I'm good with it so long as it doesn't interfer[e] with me or anyone else doesn't work unless you add that as a subject of the constitution of the US you grasp that it is your duty to also tell the state that it cannot interfer[e] with the practice of religion.
Sorry, secularism is a religion that we all need protection from. It is the religion of the left.
Posted by: dagny at March 01, 2012 10:54 AM (u50z0)
Posted by: librul troll at March 01, 2012 02:54 PM (9vRt
Short bus must be honking it's horn, I guess.
Posted by: tubal at March 01, 2012 10:57 AM (BoE3Z)
"[When we enrolled at a Catholic school] we expected women to be treated equally, to not have our school create untenable burdens that impede our academic success. We expected that our schools would live up to the Jesuit creed . . . to meet all of our medical needs."
I wasn't even aware of the no fuckee no learnee rule.
Posted by: WalrusRex at March 01, 2012 10:57 AM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: Damiano at March 01, 2012 10:58 AM (A2+pr)
Posted by: ahem at March 01, 2012 10:58 AM (3C5fW)
So then, the answer as to whether the SoCons will reciprocate and support the libertarians' freedom agenda is an emphatic "no."
Fair enough.
Posted by: runninrebel at March 01, 2012 02:58 PM (N/1Dm)
Okay, so do you support the right for me to burn down the meth house, or beat the shit out of the dealers if it makes my neighborhood unsafe?
Posted by: tubal at March 01, 2012 11:01 AM (BoE3Z)
Again, you know you're a fucking idiot, right?
Posted by: © Sponge at March 01, 2012 02:46 PM (UK9cE)
Stuff I don't care about is irrelevant. Thus, it's okay for the gov't to do whatever the heck it wants in those areas.
Derp derp derp...
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at March 01, 2012 11:02 AM (sGtp+)
Posted by: JDP at March 01, 2012 02:54 PM (60GaT)
Exactly. The framers were trying to prevent things like this:
http://bit.ly/zEn8BU
And they succeeded, until now.
Oh, and "freedom of worship" (which is not in the 1st Amendment) is NOT the same as "freedom of religion" (which is).
Posted by: Nighthawk at March 01, 2012 11:04 AM (RSqz2)
Posted by: Tim Mc at March 01, 2012 11:08 AM (9sVuh)
http://standupforreligiousfreedom.com/
Posted by: ahem at March 01, 2012 02:58 PM (3C5fW)
The Church of Secular Hedonism- they have their prophets, Hugh Hefner and Larry Flynt, their martyrs- just about any pron star who's died of an STD, and all the other trappings of a religion.
The question in my mind is: why is the government forcing the tenets of THAT particular religion down the throats of the citizens?
Posted by: Nighthawk at March 01, 2012 11:09 AM (RSqz2)
“Sen. Snowe has been a tireless advocate for the people of Maine, our nation’s military and small businesses across the country throughout a long and distinguished career of public service. She has assembled a distinguished record that began in the Maine State House and that led to the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate. Olympia’s colleagues have no doubt that she will add much to that record after leaving the Senate at the end of this year.
We will miss having her in the next Congress, but we will continue to value her friendship, and we wish her and Jock the very best in all their future endeavors.”
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 01, 2012 11:09 AM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at March 01, 2012 11:13 AM (UU0OF)
Posted by: runninrebel at March 01, 2012 03:08 PM (N/1Dm)
Ok. My concern is rather more personal and immediate, considering the town I live in. In order to turn this mess around, it would take a "massive" intervention, it seems to me. A major government initiative for the addicts and their disastrous lifestyles.....
Posted by: tubal at March 01, 2012 11:17 AM (BoE3Z)
Posted by: blindside at March 01, 2012 11:19 AM (x7g7t)
Posted by: Micheal Corleone at March 01, 2012 11:23 AM (Ym0uQ)
Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at March 01, 2012 11:26 AM (48wze)
Posted by: runninrebel at March 01, 2012 03:22 PM (N/1Dm)
You got that right. You probably won't believe it , but I'm a libertarian - but today just a discouraged one. And my polemics appliance is kinda defective at the moment. Not having a good day. Tomorrow is another day. Cheers.
Posted by: tubal at March 01, 2012 11:26 AM (BoE3Z)
Posted by: acat at March 01, 2012 12:00 PM (OpRxY)
The fight is an "and" not an "or".
As in, the fight to protect the religious liberty of Catholic (and other) hospitals, schools, and universities and a war against thegovernment encroachment on freedom
Posted by: Mike at March 01, 2012 12:48 PM (Xv7f/)
Posted by: steevy at March 01, 2012 02:09 PM (7W3wI)
Posted by: deadrody at March 01, 2012 02:17 PM (eOvu0)
Posted by: deadrody at March 01, 2012 02:18 PM (eOvu0)
No they damn well do not. There is no inalienable God-given human right to contraception. Just stop that before you go any further, you've buried your head shoulders deep in the pile of reasty dog crap of the left to even type that seriously.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at March 01, 2012 03:01 PM (r4wIV)
Posted by: Daryl Herbert at March 01, 2012 08:26 PM (n/g2M)
Posted by: Three Dog at March 02, 2012 12:13 AM (fiXQh)
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Posted by: In memorium at March 01, 2012 09:39 AM (eHIJJ)