But the fault lies not in the candidates; it lies in the electorate. Enough of us are content to let the cancer we know is there eat away at us because we feel o.k., if not entirely well, and will apparently continue to do so right up until the point that it kills us.

Absolutely correct.  I think a majority of people don't want to see their portion of the gubmint cheese eliminated, just the other guy's.  Frankly, I think an ugly dystopia awaits us. 

14

Is this the "Audit the Fed" troll changing his nic?  I think it is time for the anti-semetic trolls get the ban-hammer.

That's the thing though, there is nothing left to put into place if the Supreme Court upholds any part of Obamacare--everything is already in place, all they need is time.

That's why none on the left really care if Romney is the nominee, it a "heads I win, tails you lose" bet. Even if the SC tosses all of it, Romney will "see it is such an important issue" and will be back with a kinder, gentler version for the Dems to rally around.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 03, 2012 10:05 AM (xpIuj)

Yes, we evil gun clingers have a certain advantage over the effete vegetarians of the upper west side!

>>>Basically, the United States, as the world knows it, ceases to exist within 10 years.

Yup, basically.

Sigh...At least the Soviet citizens didn't see their collapse coming. They knew things were bad, but things had always been bad, They were always barely limping along.  Then one day the wall fell and two years later, kaput.

We, on the other hand, know(or should know) exactly what's coming. The data and information is there.  And unlike the Soviets, we acutally have a mechinism to stop it. Elecitons.

  If we do collapse, I look forward to punching anyone who says, "but I didn't know", right in the face.

Frankly, I think an ugly dystopia awaits us. 

Now, now, now Alextopia will not be ugly. 

The Stuff X Said is one of my favorite smart military blog memes ever. 

There once was a troll so paranoid

His posts felt like a hemorrhoid

His Jew-hate pimped up on steroids

His fate just like Ron PaulÂ’s ASSteroid.

>>Wow. I got a link on the front page.

My pleasure. I didn't realize you have a site. I'll be sure to check it more often.

Morning, Doomers. One week from today is my last day in this shithole.

Hurray!

OK, OK, don't all you people have any WORK to do?

Pfffft.  I'm busy multishirking. 

Posted by: alexthechick at January 03, 2012 10:17 AM (VtjlW)

I'll be borrowing "multishirking," alex. Okay, stealing, and without attribution. Tomato, tomahto.

Posted by: Looks Like We're in for Nasty Weather at January 03, 2012 10:07 AM (tAwhy)

We now have exactly what the Founders feared: a "mobocracy."  The Founders had absolutely not intention of granting universal suffrage. 

It's not going to change before things fall apart, but the right to vote should be limited to those citizens that work (and pay income taxes) or own land.

Since I'm livin' la vida California, all I can look forward to is new CaliDollars with Jerry Brown on them.

Now, now, now Alextopia will not be ugly.  

Posted by: alexthechick at January 03, 2012 10:15 AM (VtjlW)

Will you let me and Mrs. Cop into the compound?  We have valuable skills:  she is a Registered Nurse and I'm almost a newly minted Mechanical Engineer (graduate in 11 weeks).

With this move I plan to be smart and buy less house with the goal of being debt free other than it within 2 years. Then hopefully pay the house of in another 5-7.

What part of the state? I think there are a few of us around these parts but all spread out.

What Vic said in the other thread: registering your vehicle is a PITA. You have to pay your car taxes to the county and then register your vehicle with the state, and these agencies are almost never located in the same convenient location.

Good news is that you don't have to register your vehicle to get your driver's license. The law allows you 90 days to register your vehicle but because it's hassle having to deal with multiple government agencies I would register it as soon as possible.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at January 03, 2012 10:27 AM (M0NzJ)

Congratulations! I wish there were a lot more like you.

>>>Elections can't stop it. We're seeing the result of 80 years of New Deal government, and several generations who were born and raised thinking this way of life is normal.

I take the Milton Friedman view. If the political winds were for massive cuts and rolling back entitlements, then the politicians would follow those winds.

To your other point. That is the problem. The voters view the New Deal safety net programs as retirement programs. Until that changes, there will never be a political incentive to change things. 

Which goes back to my original comment and Andy's point. Our problems could be fixed in the voters wanted it fixed, but they don't. Until voters decide they want to do what is necassary, nothing will get done.

If I were a betting man, I would bet that the market crushes us before the voters realize that their "free money" is destroying us.

I think the worst part of the collapse won't be the the massive increase in every tax as a last minute attempt to actually pay for the programs, but rather the global power vacuum once we completely gut our military and withdraw from the word because we can't afford it. The world will be rife with regional wars.   There will be bloody power struggles in every region of the world, some of which will likely go nuclear.   Without the US, what is stopping Pakistan from nuking India? North Korea from invading South Korea? China from claiming the entire South China Sea? Russia from it's irredentist claims on the Baltics, Cauacus, or the -stans?  Iran from attacking Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Israel? 

If we really are the world police, which we unfortunately are, the same thing will happen globally that happens in any major city when their is no police force.

Yeah, but what happens after the dollar tanks?

Hey, remember $400 billion deficits?

Good times.

It took Europe ~30 years to get back to normalcy, and that only happened with massive cash infusions from the USA.

Also Germany and Japan had massive recoveries because they embraced free market principles for some time. Then when things got good, they went back to the Social Democratic ways.

That always seems to be case, doesn't it? It even happened in America. We grew so much between 1880s-1930. 

Nations seem to always abandon that which made them rich and opt for some benevelont centralized form of government

Congratulations! I wish there were a lot more like you.

Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at January 03, 2012 10:28 AM (RD7QR)

I was a Traffic Crash Reconstructionist my last eight years on the police department.  I found that I had a real interest in the physics and math involved in collision analysis.  I started part-time in 2005 and then, when I retired in 2008, have gone to college full-time.

I'm hoping to find a company in either the Columbus or Cincinnati area that's looking for a mature guy to help ride herd on the junior engineers.  We can't relocate because Mrs. Cop has a good job and she doesn't want to leave the grandkids (which are God's way of rewarding you for not selling you teenaged children to the gypsies).

 in Texas you can renew your registration at the grocery store. That saved a PITA day.

You can renew by mail here but in doing so you are at the mercy of the county tax assessor's office. There was a local software glitch a few years ago that delayed mailing of the registration stickers and the po-po had to stop ticketing people for expired plates until the glitch was fixed.

But we don't have that damned state emissions testing/safety inspection ripoff, so we got that going for us, which is nice.

Also Germany and Japan had massive recoveries because they embraced free market principles for some time.

Also, free riders on defense.

Nations seem to always abandon that which made them rich and opt for some benevelont centralized form of government

Posted by: Ben at January 03, 2012 10:34 AM (wuv1c)

Fuck all you DOOMers.

You can fool a great many things, Ed.  You can't fool math.  The crapulus exhausted our fiscal room for maneuver.  There will be very severe, but very necessary short and even medium term economic pain....even if we do the right things.

And then, much like we're seeing in Europe, they realize they realize they made a huge mistake.

I have seen nothing of the sort from the Europeans.  I see a guy with a teaspoon bailing out the Titanic.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at January 03, 2012 10:37 AM (8y9MW)

When they hit about 12 years is when the hell starts.  You just have to do your best and keep your cool when they f*ck up.  They really do want limits even though they say they don't.

Once they become adults and get out on their own they discover that you weren't stupid afterall.

 91, I'll be in Oconee county to start and most of the houses we like so far are there too.

Hate that 90 days thing on the vehicle.

In Alabama our tag renewals are staggered throughout the year based on your last name. Ours renew at the end of August. We can cancel the tag early and get some of the money back but this is also a hassle.

Sorry, I meant to say that you can register your vehicle whenever you want to, but the state gives you up to 90 days from the date you establish residency. You could do it the very first day you're in state if you wanted but it's still a pain because you have to pay your taxes to the county first, then go to the state DMV office and get your plates.

>>>Maybe another GOP, but not this GOP. If we could time travel and go kidnap a bunch of robber barrons and their political minions we'd be styling.

What I wouldn't give for an Andrew Carnegie. I would trade 1000 Bill Gates and Warren Buffets for a handful of Andrew Mellon and Andrew Carnegie types

If we could time travel and go kidnap a bunch of robber barrons and their political minions we'd be styling.

Time travel?

Posted by: nevergiveup at January 03, 2012 10:43 AM (i6RpT)

My wife's great-grandfather had an arrangement with the Irish-American dock workers in Hoboken to look the other way wen he loaded weapons destined for Palestine. They loved the idea that the Brits were going to get screwed.

125, knew what you meant. I was just hoping to ride the AL tag until it expires and switch over in Aug.

Ah, got it. Well, you could always take the chance and see what happens, it all depends upon how observant/pedantic your local law enforcement officers are. There is a car in my neighborhood that has been there three years and still has Indiana plates.

Posted by: The Lobster at January 03, 2012 10:53 AM (l/xhO)

Some melted butter?

>>Mellon and Carnegie would never have advocated for higher taxation, or "universal health care."

That was exactly my point. Carnegie and Mellon made this country richer by enriching themselves. They employed countless people. They did with their wealth as they saw fit. They were great men.

Actually, Andrew Carnegie was one of the first people to make the argument that lower taxes increase revenue and helped create an environment for economy to grow.

He was Coolidge's Secretary of the Treasury.  He wrote a book called "Taxation: The People's Business" which is the foundation for what Goldwater and Reagan later pursued.

*write.

and on that note it's time to get back to work

Posted by: Vic at January 03, 2012 10:58 AM (YdQQY)

Well, the part of the deficit that helps them is important. Those other people can make sacrifices.

But we'll still have boobies, right?

Guys?? Posted by: CoolCzech at January 03, 2012 10:36 AM (niZvt)

I do not want to see guys boobies.  There's enough Doooooooom without that.

We are on the cusp of at least 5% growth, if we could get the "bony fingers" off the skeleton of the last economic era that lasted through the 1960s.  In the 1970s we started to send our precious treasure (energy-oil) to other parts of the world.  We now know that we have more than enough for ourselves for several hundred years into the future to use for our own prosperity (and the rest of the world's) and to further technological development.  There is no shortage of stuff as E.M. Smith of chiefio.com shows.  Plus there is plenty on other planets, if we can get our rears in gear.

Think of those bony fingers as the lingerer-ons of a bygone age, trying to change history and science to fit their narcissistic hold (AGW, Agenda 21); trying to make government pensions and largesse equal private productivity and profit; trying to use unelected bureaucracies and NGOs to rule.  It won't last.  We will undo them.

That was exactly my point. Carnegie and Mellon made this country richer by enriching themselves. They employed countless people. They did with their wealth as they saw fit. They were great men.

They also gave boatloads of their own money to actual real charitable causes. They built things like libraries, museums, and galleries for public use with their own money. They donated their own money for scientific research. The so-called robber barons actually gave of their own wealth because they still had a sense of duty to mankind.

They did not beg the government to raise everyone's taxes while simultaneously lobbying for write-offs and shelters that only they could exploit.

Posted by: maddogg at January 03, 2012 10:43 AM (OlN4e)

I have to disagree.  If you discount the outliers, you see a pretty clear linear trendline with a negative slope. Doing a quick SWAG, it looks like we'll be in consistent negative GDP% growth around 2030 -- and that's if it is a linear as opposed to exponetial decay.

Posted by: Scott J at January 03, 2012 11:07 AM (KC2BE)

We havenÂ’t seen consistent 5% GDP growth for 35 years.

This is what the President and his crackerjack economic team have wrought. A one-year deficit that is so large that it can only be paid back if everything goes exactly right. And if everything goes exactly right, we're still looking at decades before we can get back to the debt level we had only 6 months ago.

But we have the mostest smartest, geniusest, leg tinglingest president in like forever. Look at the economic miracle he's created so far. Fixing all of this should be no problem for him or to just blame everyone else and then go off on vacation

*shudder* I drive a 2003 Dodge Ram Quad Cab 4X4.

Taxes are based on market value, which I believe is only based on make, model, and mileage (and not the actual condition of the vehicle). Not sure what your mileage is but I'd be surprised if your taxes were in excess of $100.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at January 03, 2012 11:03 AM (8y9MW)

+1000

yes, exactly correct.

Right now Bondzilla is busy raping Europe and he may make a stopover in Asia first but he will be coming here and when he does the government's ability to borrow money will disappear. Imagine Mordor-on-the-Potomac forced to only spend what it takes in tax revenue instead of borrowing over 40% of its budget as it does now. Suddenly without warning EBT cards no longer work and pension checks aren't in the mail box. Life in urban areas becomes "interesting".

And no they can't print to cover it because then you'll get $20.00 loaves of bread and a collapsed currency and the corrupt bastards in both parties know they wouldn't survive that.

Posted by: Scott J at January 03, 2012 11:15 AM (KC2BE)

I have a 1996 F-150 plain jane. My taxes run about $80 per year and then there is a $40 tag fee. It is different in different counties.

 Posted by: dagny at January 03, 2012 11:19 AM (TCgts)

THIS. My skinny, blonde, 17-year-old stepson keeps pretending he's a gangsta from the hood complete with drugs and vandalism. Yo, yo, yo, when you get into the adult prison system all the nannying goes away, but try telling them that. Sometimes I despair.

Posted by: CAC at January 03, 2012 11:25 AM (JEVge)

I much preferred the old John Wayne version. I thought the ending in the Coen brothers one sucked.

I'm not so particular to the plant itself, but by the waste lake that will be near it?  Sign me up.  Warm water year round, and huge fish.

The power plants are the best things for the manatees down in Florida. 

THIS. My skinny, blonde, 17-year-old stepson keeps pretending he's a gangsta from the hood complete with drugs and vandalism. Yo, yo, yo, when you get into the adult prison system all the nannying goes away, but try telling them that. Sometimes I despair.

Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at January 03, 2012 11:30 AM (RD7QR)

Take him to the nearest hood, give him $20, drop him off and tell him, "Good luck".... (stolen from Chappelle)

Posted by: dagny at January 03, 2012 11:19 AM (TCgts) 

What amazes me is that I haven't killed our little bastard yet. He doesn't understand that the way he talks to my wife makes me want to knock his teeth out. And the sad thing is that he thinks he is tough.

I have a 1996 F-150 plain jane. My taxes run about $80 per year and then there is a $40 tag fee. It is different in different counties.

Do you pay tag fees every year? We pay taxes every year but I am pretty sure that we pay for tags only every other year.

On the positive side, the vehicle tax is deductible from federal income tax and there's no state safety inspections or emissions testing (which are basically additional taxes).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) says 'No' to RINO Romney at January 03, 2012 11:23 AM (8y9MW)

but try fishing with a pitching wedge or a Beretta, that adds a whole new spin to it.

Posted by: CAC at January 03, 2012 11:41 AM (JEVge)

easy now...dont talk about first wife like that.

So last week, I asked you all a question regarding a 100 emails I received that went to spam but were all variations of my email address, no one answered.

I found my answer, this morning I checked my checking account balance and apparently somebody hacked into my Paypal account and purchased $819.88 worth of Iphones and shipped them to an address in my state.

I guess if this happens again, I should probably go and change my passwords huh?

Fuckers!  I'm lodging a complaint with the police since I have the douchbag's address where the stuff was shipped.  His name is Dang Le.  He's near Central CT State University so I'm guessing he's a college kid who needed a new phone.

All of you with kids about to be teenagers, don't despair (maybe a little). My son is 26 almost finished with college, gainfully  employed and has the cutest 2 year old you ever saw (says me).

If you had seen him in high school with drugs, alcohol, arrests, car wrecks (5 total) you'd have pegged him for prison. Now, those years sucked and it was a constant battle of wills. But, he turned out ok. Just keep doing what you know is right and don't be their friend.

Imagine Mordor-on-the-Potomac forced to only spend what it takes in tax revenue instead of borrowing over 40% of its budget as it does now. Suddenly without warning EBT cards no longer work and pension checks aren't in the mail box. Life in urban areas becomes "interesting".

And no they can't print to cover it because then you'll get $20.00 loaves of bread and a collapsed currency and the corrupt bastards in both parties know they wouldn't survive that.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at January 03, 2012 11:28 AM (6BgmB)

European governments have bond problems because they can't print.  Thus, there's no real assurance the bonds will be repaid at all.  At least when you control your own money you can pay back bonds with something, even if inflated.

The idea that taxes go anywhere other than into oblivion is a relic of the hard money era.  All federal dollars are created as they are spent.  Tax dollars, when collected, are essentially destroyed.  All the record keeping is for no value other than keeping track of what is absorbing resources and making policy decisions.  The government need never stop issuing checks.

But that said, being unable to borrow is a great thing.  We should not allow borrowing, since it really just compounds the problem by adding interest payments.  Instead, deficits should be financed purely by printing.  Borrowing is simply an attempt to sterilize the deficit's effects by removing money from the public supply.  Eliminating that farce would allow the inflationary impact of excess deficits to be more or less immediate.  If there's no inflation, the deficit doesn't matter.  If the deficit is too large, then it's clearly a case where the state absorbs too much resource, and tax increases will be irrelevant.  Indeed - we will at long last have achieved the flat tax on everyone's wealth - rich and poor will suffer devaluation alike.

Also, bear in mind that all hyperinflationary incidents (Weimar, Zimbabwe, Argentina, etc) in the modern era have been caused by either having debt in foreign denominated currency, or civil unrest.  So far we're good on those. 

Posted by: OregonMuse at January 03, 2012 11:55 AM (SS8oG)

You think you've got good kids........okay....I don't have any kids.  But if I did they'd make yours look like special ed students, or not.

Your live-at-home daughter does sound like she's going to be living at home a very long long time.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 03, 2012 11:07 AM (xpIuj)

^^^this. 1000 times, this.  Ghost town, USA.

Posted by: Mr Pink at January 03, 2012 11:57 AM (W/RCd)

Amen, and amen. 

Though I'd also say that property owners get the vote, not just vets.  Just paying some taxes should not be enough in itself.  Not all taxpayers have a stake in stability and prosperity of the nation as a whole.  Property owners are much more likely to. 

I'm my parents' favorite

but then again when one is an unemployed know it all who uses his wife's hard earn money and another is a welfare queen it kinda gets things down to me and my other sister who actually produce for society (my sister is joining the army next year btw so I might lose my grip on that top spot)

Andy, you are also helping to perpetuate the problem in a way. STOP COMPARING THE DEBT LEVEL TO GDP.

Comparing the debt level vs GDP is fucking retarded. You have to compare to Federal budget (or income, revenue, whatever term you want to use).

Comparing the federal debt to GDP is like me comparing my total debt against the income of everyone in my neighborhood instead of my own income. Thats 'tarded.

Posted by: Jeremiad was a Bullfrog at January 03, 2012 12:11 PM (UzjcV)

God no, please not my state, nooooo!

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 03, 2012 12:08 PM (4q5tP)

By the way, the national debt is about 5x (500%!) the federal income level.

How do you like them apples!?!?!?!

OT:  Just got my new newsletter from the Communist Party (CPUSA):

Dear Bern,
 
'Tis the season to be jolly, but it would be a whole lot jollier if the Republicans in Congress weren't doing their best to steal unemployment benefits from millions of jobless workers!
 
Deal or No Deal?
The Senate went home for the holidays, assuming that the bill they passed to extend unemployment benefits and the payroll tax cut for two months was sewn up in the House, too.  They were wrong.  Speaker Boehner had agreed to the bill, but if he can't control the Teapublicans in his party (or the rest of the "Nobama" GOPers who want the economy to fail to make it harder for Obama to win a second term), the deal is off. 
 
Tell your Representative not to be a Grinch and pass this damn bill already!

No, no connection between the Democrats and Communists at all...
 

Posted by: irongrampa at January 03, 2012 12:10 PM (SAMxH)

Bless you and your family for putting in the effort.  As I keep explaining to my kids and the ex-wife, traditional ways got to be traditions by working for most people, most of the time, over 10,000 years of human culture.  How about we try that way first?

Posted by: Jean at January 03, 2012 12:18 PM (WkuV6)

What button, whose button? 

Posted by: soothsayer at January 03, 2012 09:56 AM (KreG+)

Posted by: soothsayer at January 03, 2012 09:57 AM (oB2II)

Posted by: soothsayer at January 03, 2012 09:57 AM (Ba6aP)

No, no, comrade, the situation is worse than that, much worse. Only one thing can save us now ... yep ... HIGH SPEED RAIL.

Posted by: dagny at January 03, 2012 12:14 PM (TCgts)

Very tempting.  I've been on the losing end of "do your homework/major grade project/exam prep now," excellent advice not taken, since 8th grade with her (and her mom). 

There's always community college.

this i is how cold it is outside.........if i ever get in trouble again, i want Mattlock tobe my lawyer.

my kids were trained early that they carry in the groceries and they put them away.....it's the only chore they don't complain about......

Mine (16 and 13) rush to help with carrying in groceries, and get the door for their mother ... because I do, and they've learned by example. (Plus the odd reminder when they forget, which they legitimately do from time to time.) And they don't squawk about chores.

Yeah, so it's me that's responsible for Obama being President. God had to saddle me with something that was a pain in the ass; you guys having to put up with him was just collateral damage, I guess.

Posted by: dagny at January 03, 2012 11:35 AM (TCgts)

-----

Listen, Dagny, I think all that comes out in the wash.  Usually.  Mine are 21 and 25 (girls) and have had their periods of rebellion.  Despite me being a stay-at-home mom, plenty of church, sports, etc.  We are up against the culture.

But we did our part, and inculcated our values, whether it looks like that now or not.  Once they are adults, they have to learn the rest by themselves . . . and sometimes the hard way.