August 13, 2012
— rdbrewer For years I've read that the Egyptian military is the real power in Egypt. It looks like that might not be true anymore. President Mursi has just removed two commanding generals. Barry Rubin, from PJM:
Muslim Brotherhood President al-Mursi has just removed the two commanding generals of the Egyptian military. Does he have a right to do this? Who knows?ThereÂ’s no constitution. That means all we were told about not having to worry because the generals would restrain the Brotherhood was false. Moreover, the idea that the army, and hence the government, may fear to act lest they lose U.S. aid will also be false. There is no parliament at present He is now the democratically elected dictator of Egypt. True, he picked another career officer but he has now put forward the principle: he decides who runs the army. The generals can still advise Mursi. He can choose to listen to them or not. But there is no more dual power in Egypt but only one leader. The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces which has run Egypt since February 2011 is gone. Only Mursi remains and Egypt is now at his mercy.Oh and to put the icing on the cake, Mursi will apparently decide who will be on the commission that writes the new Constitution.
Rubin goes on to call this a coup. I don't know about that, but it can't be good if the force that kept Egypt stable all these years is gone. The reaction in Egypt sounds mixed.
Thousands poured into Cairo’s Tahrir Square late yesterday to celebrate what they said was another step toward the completion of the January 2011 uprising against Hosni Mubarak. Others said they were concerned about the growing hold of the Muslim Brotherhood, which backed Mursi for the presidency, on Egyptian politics.“There is no way that we can consider these surprise decisions to be in the interests of the reforms called for under the revolution,” el-Saeed Kamel, the head of the secular Democratic Front party, said by phone, adding that they represent a “contradiction to the promises Mursi made.”
Mursi also voided a constitutional addendum the military council had enacted before he took office that stripped the presidency of some its powers.
The fear is that he is a fundamentalist reformer and that Egypt will soon go the way of Iran. But if you think back to Iran's transformation, it didn't go like this. When Khomeini returned to Iran, he took over as a religious leader. Mursi is not a religious leader; he was a member of parliament, a politician supported by the Muslim Brotherhood. So far, it can't be said he is acting more like a fundamentalist reformer than he is a tin-plated dictator.
Time will tell.
Posted by: rdbrewer at
10:10 AM
| Comments (141)
Post contains 474 words, total size 3 kb.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at August 13, 2012 10:15 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2012 10:15 AM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Regular With Full Stomping Power! at August 13, 2012 10:16 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Egypt's Two Generals at August 13, 2012 10:16 AM (136wp)
Israel should be getting prepared for the big one.
Posted by: Soona at August 13, 2012 10:16 AM (R+gW6)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 13, 2012 10:17 AM (mSAq8)
Soon the entire Egyptian command structure will be in jails run by the Muslim Brotherhood.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 13, 2012 10:17 AM (HlJeY)
Posted by: WalrusRex at August 13, 2012 10:17 AM (Hx5uv)
Sorry, we live in a Democracy, not a Republic.Posted by: Joe Biden at August 13, 2012 10:18 AM (136wp)
Posted by: JEF at August 13, 2012 10:18 AM (t7UID)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at August 13, 2012 10:18 AM (UTq/I)
Isn't that what we've had here for the last 3.5 years?
More seriously: yes, exactly. Pretty soon Egypt will be theocracy at least to the extent that Iran is.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at August 13, 2012 10:18 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: The Robot Devil at August 13, 2012 10:19 AM (136wp)
Posted by: WalrusRex at August 13, 2012 10:19 AM (Hx5uv)
Posted by: tasker at August 13, 2012 10:20 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: The Robot Devil at August 13, 2012 10:20 AM (136wp)
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2012 10:20 AM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 13, 2012 10:21 AM (9Y2g0)
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2012 10:21 AM (6o4Fb)
rd, you say that Iran is ruled by religious leader. I'm wondering from where Mursi is getting his instructions. I think we should start looking at the religious leadership in Egypt also. With the MB, he's not getting advisement from a vacuum.
Posted by: Soona at August 13, 2012 10:21 AM (R+gW6)
Posted by: The Robot Devil at August 13, 2012 10:22 AM (136wp)
It sounds like Mursi's trying to establish a Mubarak-style dictatorial government, but with Muslim Brotherhood roots that make it more theological than secular. I don't see Egypt going the way of Iran immediately, but I could very easily see it sliding towards Iranian fundamentalism over a period of years. They've been heading that way for decades anyway. I suspect Mursi's election may simply hasten things along.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit[/b][/i] at August 13, 2012 10:22 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2012 10:22 AM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: Fritz at August 13, 2012 10:23 AM (RuVpG)
Trouble from whom?
Israel will abide by Camp David unless Egypt and its loons attack it.
Libya is still trying to find a new bung hole to lead them.
Sudan has an entire region to play pogrom with.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 13, 2012 10:23 AM (HlJeY)
Posted by: Curly Jeff at August 13, 2012 10:24 AM (8W5lq)
Now if (when) Mursi starts organizing a Revolutionary Guard or whatever, then it's time to worry. For now . . . they're his generals, he can sack them or not as he chooses.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 13, 2012 10:24 AM (Rc0hz)
Posted by: Tom Friedman at August 13, 2012 10:24 AM (bAGA/)
http://emergency.tamu.edu/
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at August 13, 2012 10:24 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Curly Jeff at August 13, 2012 02:24 PM (8W5lq)
Nice puppeht.
Best Role Brian Denehey ever had. How he didn't win an Oscar for that, I'll never know.
Posted by: garrett at August 13, 2012 10:25 AM (0cvFd)
Posted by: joncelli, going with the flow at August 13, 2012 10:26 AM (RD7QR)
Having the democratically elected civilian leadership able to hire and fire the military? Overall it's the proper distribution of power. Yes, like many others I'm worried about the end result of having the Brotherhood in power, but this is what the Egyptians voted for, and it's unlikely to lead to Sharia law as practiced in Saudi Arabia.
Let the Brotherhood try their hand at ruling. They won't do worse than Mubarak and Co. did for decades.
Posted by: Pigilito at August 13, 2012 10:26 AM (CU+o0)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 - graciously giving us Shark Week first at August 13, 2012 10:26 AM (VtjlW)
Yes.
It's a problem because Mursi is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood whose stated goals include Theocracy and Jihad. That's a bad thing. With the Generals as the "real power" it was a very different thing- they were more-or-less pro-West. If they're not the power any more, then we have an Islamist Egypt rising, which is bad for many reasons.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at August 13, 2012 10:27 AM (8y9MW)
I'll be interested to see if these generals end up dead from suspicious "suicides" in the next few months. If that happens, then yes, Mursi and the MB are establishing themselves a cozy little dictatorship with a kill list. But, until that happens, I'm going to try some cautious optimism. Maybe the few remaining bright sparks in Egypt will keep things from getting even worse than they already are.
Don't look at me like that. I said CAUTIOUS optimism.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit[/b][/i] at August 13, 2012 10:27 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Bill Kristol at August 13, 2012 10:28 AM (/YJYi)
Are we supposed to be hoping Egypt continues as a dysfunctional kinda-republic kinda-junta state?
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 13, 2012 02:24 PM (Rc0hz)
Short answer: Yes.
Muz democracy is not good for us. Better they be ruled by some irreligious military types.
Posted by: Reactionary at August 13, 2012 10:28 AM (xUM1Q)
Is there any more calming, confidence inspiring phrase than that?
Have they blown up the Pyramids yet?
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2012 10:28 AM (KXm42)
Here is the comment thread that got me re-banned (#6 i think) from the Daily Kos
It's worth a peek to see how far apart our worldviews are.
And how the mildest polite dissent is intolerable to them.
Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at August 13, 2012 10:28 AM (SO2Q8)
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2012 10:29 AM (6o4Fb)
this is what the Egyptians voted for, and it's unlikely tolead to Sharia law as practiced in Saudi Arabia.
Let the Brotherhood try their hand at ruling. They won't do worse thanMubarak and Co.did for decades
Good fucking God, man.
Did I miss the Tardisil boosters they were giving out in that Morning Thread or something?
Posted by: garrett at August 13, 2012 10:29 AM (0cvFd)
Posted by: Hrothgar (Dagny Aficionado ) at August 13, 2012 10:30 AM (Cnqmv)
Yeah... this needs to be an ad, STAT.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at August 13, 2012 10:30 AM (8y9MW)
Posted by: steevy
Shame he doesn't actually believe any of that.
Posted by: Hobbitopoly at August 13, 2012 10:30 AM (SBBF5)
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2012 02:28 PM (KXm42)
Last I heard the plan was to encase them all in shapeless wax. But potato/potahto.
Mind you, how wax would hold up under the Egyptian sun is a bit of a no-brainer to me.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit[/b][/i] at August 13, 2012 10:31 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Soona at August 13, 2012 10:31 AM (R+gW6)
I wonder what all those folks marching in Tahir Square will do once Egypt starts to supporting terrorist actions against the US and engaging in alliances with Iran to harm our interests and citizens in the Middle East?
Posted by: Exile at August 13, 2012 10:31 AM (GGCsk)
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit[/b][/i] at August 13, 2012 10:33 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Adam at August 13, 2012 10:33 AM (/YJYi)
Posted by: The Robot Devil at August 13, 2012 10:33 AM (136wp)
Posted by: Secular Liberals at August 13, 2012 10:34 AM (F6KtL)
>>I'd guess he'd crawl under the couch until Jarett made him condemn it...
I ain't hiding under Michele's skirt. I can tell you that much.
Posted by: Barakhenaten I at August 13, 2012 10:35 AM (0cvFd)
Posted by: Exile at August 13, 2012 02:31 PM (GGCsk)
In private, they will curse the day we sold out Mubarak.
In public, they will face mecca five times a day saying the equivalent of thank you sir may I have another!
Posted by: Hrothgar (Dagny Aficionado ) at August 13, 2012 10:35 AM (Cnqmv)
Posted by: toby928© at August 13, 2012 10:35 AM (evdj2)
Posted by: Hobbitopoly at August 13, 2012 02:30 PM (SBBF5)
umm, he believes all of that
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at August 13, 2012 10:35 AM (mFxQX)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 13, 2012 10:35 AM (9Y2g0)
Like all socialists; he promises equal distribution so "anyone can make it" what we get is total destitution where no one can make it. And to a socialist that's OK. As long as that ever elusive equality of outcome is achieved they don't care what that outcome is, even if it is universal poverty.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Regular With Full Stomping Power! at August 13, 2012 10:36 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: maddogg at August 13, 2012 10:37 AM (OlN4e)
Do they revolt? Do they wait? Most of the Army and its conscripts won't side with them. But if they don't do something its jail and probably a short trip on a shorter rope.
Because of how ham-handed the Obama administration has been in dealing with Egypt, this country has zero influence to shape anything.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 13, 2012 10:37 AM (HlJeY)
And if you make it, despite the best efforts of my government, we'll take away from you and redistribute it to people who don't try.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at August 13, 2012 10:38 AM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2012 10:38 AM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: Calvin at August 13, 2012 10:38 AM (X1Yub)
Oh, he does believe in "shared prosperity", but I don't think he wants everyone to succeed. Just a select few so their wealth can be "spread around".
Posted by: Hobbitopoly at August 13, 2012 10:40 AM (SBBF5)
Posted by: tasker at August 13, 2012 10:40 AM (r2PLg)
“I believe we have to go forward,” the president said. “I believe we
have to keep working to create an America where no matter who you are,
no matter what you look like, no matter where you come from, no matter
what your last name is, no matter who you love, you didn'tcan make it here if
you try.”
Fix'd.
Posted by: reason at August 13, 2012 10:40 AM (kZVsz)
That's right, folks, we are now funding the Muslim Brotherhood.
Congratulations, we the people are now state sponsors of a terrorist organization. Everyone take a bow.
Posted by: GnuBreed at August 13, 2012 10:40 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 13, 2012 02:35 PM (9Y2g0)
-------------------------------------------
It's taking a little bit longer than Iran, but *sigh* it's all going in the same direction. I should have gone to see the pyramids when I had the chance.
Posted by: Soona at August 13, 2012 10:40 AM (R+gW6)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 - graciously giving us Shark Week first at August 13, 2012 10:41 AM (VtjlW)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 13, 2012 10:41 AM (HlJeY)
Posted by: tasker at August 13, 2012 10:41 AM (r2PLg)
Posted by: toby928© at August 13, 2012 02:35 PM (evdj2)
This is a great outcome. The more they starve, the harder it is for them to annoy the rest of us. Hopefully the entire region, except Israel, will be plunged into famine. It would be a great boon to the rest of us.
Posted by: Reactionary at August 13, 2012 10:41 AM (xUM1Q)
Posted by: Cicero at August 13, 2012 10:42 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 13, 2012 10:42 AM (r4wIV)
Posted by: Obama, twirling around in a busy NYC street, and throwing his red hat into the air at August 13, 2012 10:43 AM (kZVsz)
Posted by: Injuin Blackfoot Barry, The One Who Eats Dogs at August 13, 2012 10:43 AM (3ZjAP)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 - graciously giving us Shark Week first at August 13, 2012 02:41 PM (VtjlW)
Very well said. Sums it all up nicely. Few things make a person angrier than seeing the proverb of the grasshopper and the ant upended by these damn leftist redistributionists. Now in Obastard's America the ants are enslaved to the grasshoppers. All in the name of fairness.
Posted by: Reactionary at August 13, 2012 10:43 AM (xUM1Q)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Regular With Full Stomping Power! at August 13, 2012 10:44 AM (0q2P7)
Posted by: tasker at August 13, 2012 10:44 AM (r2PLg)
I guess worst case is Egypt as an Iran that has no money and can't feed itself. Which would be more like Somalia if you think about it.
Posted by: toby928© at August 13, 2012 02:35 PM (evdj2)
Soooo, Egyptian pirates? That would make transiting the Suez Canal a scinitillating, adventurous experience.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit[/b][/i] at August 13, 2012 10:45 AM (4df7R)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 13, 2012 10:46 AM (HlJeY)
Posted by: toby928© responds 400 comments later at August 13, 2012 10:46 AM (evdj2)
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2012 10:46 AM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: James Clapper at August 13, 2012 10:46 AM (F6KtL)
"Hopefully the entire region, except Israel, will be plunged into famine. It would be a great boon to the rest of us."
Except then they will try to loot Israel, take everything they have, and kill them all off. And Israel will defend itself. Which is to say, "be portrayed on the national scene as a bunch of greedy selfish hoarders who watch their neighbors in need starve and die!"
Posted by: reason at August 13, 2012 10:46 AM (kZVsz)
It's of Leinie's. HAWT.
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at August 13, 2012 10:47 AM (ZKzrr)
Egypt is going to be much much worse, because their women are far uglier than Persian women. Being surrounded by butt ugly, nagging broads will make even the most milquetoast man turn into a murderous tyrant.
Posted by: wooga at August 13, 2012 10:47 AM (vjyZP)
Posted by: © Sponge at August 13, 2012 10:47 AM (UK9cE)
sometimes the news is so grim.
i wonder if the MB will advocate for rights of women, or children , or athesist, or jews, or christians or Bahai's?
that's alright , elections have consequences.
Posted by: willow at August 13, 2012 10:47 AM (TomZ9)
Posted by: tasker at August 13, 2012 02:44 PM (r2PLg)
Hmm. Seems like I've heard about this kind of thing somewhere else. Lemme think... Oh yeah. Now I know where else this happened. EVERY DAMN PLACE ON EARTH RUN BY MUZ (including some European cities like Oslo). They're the slime of humanity, and this is what they bring to every place they live and become too large a segment of the population.
Yet we're expected to "tolerate" them here. F**k that. Disenfranchise and deport, and for the recalictrant - whatever is necessary to get the job done.
Posted by: Reactionary at August 13, 2012 10:48 AM (xUM1Q)
Posted by: Whoopie at August 13, 2012 10:48 AM (F6KtL)
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2012 10:48 AM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: reason at August 13, 2012 10:49 AM (kZVsz)
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2012 10:49 AM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: Soothsayer, and things of that nature at August 13, 2012 10:49 AM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Sallah at August 13, 2012 10:49 AM (136wp)
Seems civil to me.....I want some of that.........
Posted by: © Sponge at August 13, 2012 10:50 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: wooga at August 13, 2012 10:50 AM (vjyZP)
These 'inspections' are instruments of terror and humiliation. Once the rape happens to an Islamic woman, then they are a hostage to be used against her family. Someone in the family protests new government then his sister or mother or daughter gets charged in Sharia court with adultery. And since its the security forces who did it, they will have the evidence. And like that poor woman in Afghanistan, she will get several 7.62mms transiting her body.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 13, 2012 10:50 AM (HlJeY)
Seriously, you didn't do that. You had roads and bridges and good teachers and textbooks, and...
Posted by: Barky Zero at August 13, 2012 10:50 AM (Cnqmv)
Posted by: Joe at August 13, 2012 10:50 AM (QGV47)
'I bet Andrea Mitchell could walk through Tahir square in a bikini untouched though.'
Oh yes, we don't want to touch that old hag.
Posted by: Secular Muslim Who Wants to Kill You at August 13, 2012 10:51 AM (F6KtL)
Yes I get the feeling these leftists never read the little red hen story either. All you need to know about politics you should have learned in kindergarten.
http://tinyurl.com/yh4dale
Posted by: Buzzsaw at August 13, 2012 10:51 AM (tf9Ne)
Posted by: reason at August 13, 2012 02:49 PM (kZVsz)
Rachael Madow was?
Posted by: © Sponge at August 13, 2012 10:51 AM (UK9cE)
Except then they will try to loot Israel, take everything they have, and kill them all off. And Israel will defend itself.
Posted by: reason at August 13, 2012 02:46 PM (kZVsz)
So much the better. Yet another justified extermination of many muz males. Hopefully Mitt will be in by then and we can use the Israelis to test out more military hardware. Sadly, there are always a few muz males left to keep impregnating the females (usually their sisters and 1st cousins). Sigh...
If the alternative is for the muz to keep reproducing and growing their populations at the current rate, then bring on whatever chaos is necessary over there to thin their herd. The alternative is unthinkable.
Posted by: Reactionary at August 13, 2012 10:51 AM (xUM1Q)
Posted by: The Muslim Brotherhood Director of Antiquities Spoliation and Disguising at August 13, 2012 10:52 AM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 13, 2012 02:50 PM (HlJeY)
And she'll be the lucky one. In A-stan the noble tradition of gang rape is considered suitable for the administration of justice (though usually that's used to punish the woman's brother or father). Then she'll get a nice face full of acid, or shot.
Posted by: Reactionary at August 13, 2012 10:56 AM (xUM1Q)
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at August 13, 2012 10:56 AM (1hM1d)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at August 13, 2012 10:56 AM (i330i)
121 I bet Andrea Mitchell could walk through Tahir square in a bikini untouched though.
That could be used as crowd control, steevy......it would clear the square.
Posted by: wheatie at August 13, 2012 10:56 AM (mtRB0)
...it's a joke about...
...sigh...
Posted by: reason at August 13, 2012 02:53 PM (kZVsz)
I'm with ya, I just wasn't sure if it was a fact, or a Harry Reid fact.
It explains a lot, though.
Posted by: © Sponge at August 13, 2012 10:58 AM (UK9cE)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at August 13, 2012 10:58 AM (HlJeY)
Posted by: toby928© responds 400 comments later at August 13, 2012 11:08 AM (evdj2)
It never works when you have an illiterate population coupled with powerful individuals that are convinced that they and they alone are fit to lead. (See Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, etc.)
Posted by: Hrothgar (Dagny Aficionado ) at August 13, 2012 11:08 AM (Cnqmv)
I'd like to see them try.
Those blocks are enormous.
---- you need how many vests?
Posted by: 10,000 muslim seamstresses at August 13, 2012 11:17 AM (SO2Q8)
Posted by: torabora at August 13, 2012 11:18 AM (o1e12)
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Posted by: Minuteman at August 13, 2012 10:13 AM (E3WuV)