Ace of Spades HQ

March 09, 2014

Gun Thread (3-9-2014)
— andy

Facebook, Instagram & Guns

Moms Demand Action!!11! and receive ... this? OK. Whatever.

Facebook and its photo-sharing subsidiary Instagram Wednesday announced new policies aimed at stemming online sales of illegal guns.
The social media platforms have agreed to remove reported posts that evade gun laws, restrict minors under the age of 18 from viewing posts about firearm sales and provide education to better inform law-abiding sellers of guns.

Here's NRA-ILA's response.

Dana Loesch's thoughts on a Ben Carson POTUS candidacy

A position I endorse:

Gun rights isn't an "issue." It's a freaking civil right.
— Dana Loesch (@DLoesch) March 8, 2014

Yeah, there are lots of policy issues we can discuss and debate the details of, but Carson's statement that people's second amendment rights should be conditional based on where they live is a deal breaker.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below) Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - 81-year-old Florida man shoots accused attacker in Palm Beach Gardens - http://t.co/zAOQKkFUQH #NRA #2A (via @wptv)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) March 4, 2014

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the S&W No. 3, Third Model, in .44 Russian.

Connecticut

I've seen a bunch of stuff flying around the Interwebs about pushback on Connecticut's "assault weapons" registration scheme re police refusing to enforce the law. None of it is sourced worth a crap, and I won't link it here. But I'll keep looking.

Hickock45 On The GOTW

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 10:48 AM | Comments (120)
Post contains 321 words, total size 4 kb.

1 W00-hoo!

Posted by: pilot141 at March 09, 2014 10:48 AM (nPwzA)

2 First maybe. Cuccinelli's new firm - VSDL. Virginia Self Defense Law http://tinyurl.com/keno39v

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 10:51 AM (MtC8f)

3 How on Earth will those places know if those guns being posted are "illegal"?

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at March 09, 2014 10:53 AM (PZ6/M)

The 2nd amendment is an actual right. "Gay marriage" is not - and this is true regardless of how many idiots in this country answer loaded poll questions in the affirmative.

Gays already have the right to marry. They have the EXACT SAME right to marry as straight people do. What they are asking for is special dispensation to change the law to specially favour their peculiar and particular lifestyle choice. In other words, "special rights."

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at March 09, 2014 10:56 AM (U+vgB)

5 I guess he should have pissed and vommited on them. Granted shooting someone in the back is never the best but F "em. 1 more dead choir boy. http://tinyurl.com/kfmpqmq Prosecutors say Youssef Abdel-Gawad broke the law when he killed Jazzmen Bryant, 33, who entered Mr. Abdel-GawadÂ’s property with four others in an apparent robbery attempt in August, because he shot the suspect in the back while he was fleeing and outside the home. Police said that four of the would-be burglars waited outside while one climbed onto the porch with a gun and attempted to force his way through the front door, a local CBS News affiliate reported. The suspect then fired his weapon toward the sliding glass door, sending Mr. Abdel-GawadÂ’s family running for cover, police said.

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 10:57 AM (MtC8f)

6 The social media platforms have agreed to remove reported posts that evade gun laws, restrict minors under the age of 18 from viewing posts about firearm sales and provide education to better inform law-abiding sellers of guns. So they will have some stringent test, like Pr0n sites, to click 'OK' to attest to being over 18? Thank goodness, I'm sure that will work. Liberals live in a world, much like producers of pr0n, filled with fantasy.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron [/i] at March 09, 2014 10:58 AM (CnA98)

7 I have a couple of Umberti revolvers, a Walker Colt and a Patterson Colt. Good reproductions.

Posted by: Mr. Dave at March 09, 2014 10:58 AM (/uRce)

8 No, men having husbands is a civil right; it's in the Constitution.

Posted by: soothsayer at March 09, 2014 10:58 AM (4mGlY)

9 I agree with Dana L. Ben is off my list. Gun Control is one of my three deal breakers.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at March 09, 2014 11:00 AM (T2V/1)

10 Basically the FB rules mean that you can't post "Selling an illegal gun. No back ground check required. I'll maill it directly to you.' So way to go Moms. What a great victory!

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 11:02 AM (MtC8f)

11 7 - The other day I was looking at a repro Griswald & Gunnison .36 Navy. Interesting because the frames were made by High Standard and the balance of the parts by Uberti. The guns were assembled and finished by High Standard. . Pic: http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/6998082748/9955653/g1.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 09, 2014 11:03 AM (aDwsi)

12 Need some ideas...I'm looking for a new optic for a black rifle and I was considering an ACOG. But the prices are giving me a nose bleed. Anyone have any suggestions for a substitute that would serve a similar mission profile?

Posted by: Nope, didnt do it, not me at March 09, 2014 11:04 AM (8HiDF)

13 I'm not a single issue guy but guns and amnesty are WAY at the top for me. I have to agree with Dana Loesch about Dr Carson.

Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 11:05 AM (mPI0W)

14 No, men having husbands is a civil right; it's in the Constitution. Posted by: soothsayer --------------- Also, Jesus never said anything against it, so.....

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 09, 2014 11:05 AM (aDwsi)

15 Facebook is kinda gay if you ask me, which you didn't.

Posted by: Mitt Rombley at March 09, 2014 11:05 AM (JQuNB)

16 Moms Demand Action!! Then hit the Treadmill instead of the couch. Little reverse cowgirl wouldn't hurt your thighs, either.

Posted by: garrett at March 09, 2014 11:07 AM (I33is)

17 That S&W video was nice. Thanks for that.

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at March 09, 2014 11:08 AM (cCxiu)

18 I hate to abandon the lovely poetry in the thread below, but I have a small issue. I got bored a couple of weeks ago and bought my first Mosin Nagant 91/30 at Cabelas, $169.99. I've been on some forums, but thought I'd run it by the horde too. The bolt will not close all the way when there's a shell in the chamber, so I've ordered some headspace gauges. But shouldn't I take it to a gunsmith to get checked out anyway, just to be safe? I'm a complete novice at these, although I have shot one once (ow). It's pretty clean, being from Cabelas, but I bet it could use some more cleaning to make sure the gunk is all gone. Thoughts?

Posted by: stace at March 09, 2014 11:08 AM (9PXzx)

19 I need some advice on buying a handgun. I know next to nothing about them. Don't get me wrong. I've hunted on and off over the years. Mom used to have an Italian made Colt 45 revolver copy that I would target practice with (she could make a tin can dance along the ground with it )

I'm thinking about a Glock, but so many models, etc. Just want to get a CC permit and to do a little target practice once in a while.

Posted by: Sphynx at March 09, 2014 11:08 AM (OZmbA)

20 First look and review of the new-fangled AR-15. http://tinyurl.com/mymurxm Many features of the AR-15 are of European origin and not generally familiar to American shooters, but they were already long tried and have worked out well in this case.

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 11:09 AM (MtC8f)

21 13 i can be kinda single issue if you say civil rights as a whole. so, 4thA 1stA, 2ndA et al and esp.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at March 09, 2014 11:09 AM (qGvNk)

22 He doesn't want people in cities to have guns because some crazy person might get their hands on it? He's a doctor, not a liar. Must have been feeling pressure from somewhere to make vocal exceptions for inner-city black crime, since he's smart enough to know even confiscatory gun laws in cities don't work.

Posted by: kartoffel at March 09, 2014 11:10 AM (sWwJZ)

23 I have to do some bragging on my girl. She took my 357 to Chicago with her. Before she left we went to the range so she could get used to it. This is the result of her first 6 shots with the gun at 15 feet. It looks like three holes but the one in the red is actually 4 shots. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1zbqkuo&s=8 I tell her I spread my bullets around a bit to make more leaks in any potential target. She doesn't buy that and claims that she is a better shot than me. Pshaw

Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 11:10 AM (mPI0W)

24 I did not use Facebook to mention my recent on-line purchase of a new, very nice Springfield Armory 1911 Range Officer in .45 Perhaps the fact that I have to fill out the ATF forms at my local gun dealer took the excitement out of it. BTW- the new addition is very tightly put together and accurate as all get out. Needs a new front sight, as black-on-black just isn't very compatible with my aging eyes. Hence, the white-out now smeared on the front.

Posted by: 141Driver at March 09, 2014 11:10 AM (C0WBF)

25 So sorry, Ben. You coulda been a contendah.

Posted by: Harrison Bergeron at March 09, 2014 11:14 AM (JQuNB)

26 I haven't watched Hickock45 in a while. Love his voice.

Posted by: whoever at March 09, 2014 11:15 AM (pjMym)

27 Posted by: stace at March 09, 2014 03:08 PM (9PXzx) From another forum regarding the bolt not closing Take a screwdriver and place it flat along the face of the bolt, hooked under the rim of the extractor, and lever it out a bit. I've had two mosins like that, both of which functioned fine after a little adjustment.

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 11:16 AM (MtC8f)

28 Me and my sig P229 in .40 have 3 words: Bacon Flavored Beer thatisall.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:16 AM (x3YFz)

29 Sphynx, glock is good. Supposedly the ammo shortage isn't going away any time soon so that probably should weigh in on your choice. Check around you to see what calibers are readily available. For me it's .40 so the wife is getting g27, her current is g22.

Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 11:16 AM (mPI0W)

30 I tell her I spread my bullets around a bit to make more leaks in any potential target. She doesn't buy that and claims that she is a better shot than me. Pshaw Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 03:10 PM (mPI0W Going to have to remember that one.

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 11:17 AM (MtC8f)

31 Pity about Ben. "So it goes...."

Posted by: backhoe at March 09, 2014 11:18 AM (ULH4o)

32 20 - It is my great sadness that the .223 brought about the (near) abandonment of the .222 and .222 magnum. The .222 at a more modest twist and slighter lighter bullets is/was more more accurate than the .223's being produced. The .222 magnum has just about died from lack of support. I don't believe that any ammo is available any more. Sad, really. The .222 mag has about a 5% case capacity advantage over the .223, which really was developed as a military item, rather than a sporting/hunting round.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at March 09, 2014 11:18 AM (aDwsi)

33 I agree that Carson is a no-go based on the gun rights issue. Perhaps he can be taught though. When you grow up in an area where gun ownership is considered aberrant, you may not realize how important it is. Someone needs to take him shooting and teach him some history. A lot of people do a 180 on guns after they have some good experiences with them.

Posted by: stace at March 09, 2014 11:18 AM (9PXzx)

34 I'm thinking about a Glock, but so many models, etc. Just want to get a CC permit and to do a little target practice once in a while. Posted by: Sphynx at March 09, 2014 03:08 PM (OZmbA) My first was a Glock 19. No complaints.

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 11:19 AM (MtC8f)

35 A very significant revolver, the Russian 3rd Model. The Russians liked the revolver, but they didn't like the round, a .44 with an outside-lubed heeled bullet. So they had SW reduce the bullet diameter, put a lube channel around it and sit in down inside the case where it belonged. SW called it the .44 Russian (the parent round became the .44 American and died soon after).

The .44 Russian was superbly accurate and became a preferred target round. The case was stretched to become the .44 Special, and then an Idaho cowboy named Elmer Keith started blowing up pistols with his own .44 Special hot handloads. SW took his load, put in it yet another stretched case and begat the .44 Magnum.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at March 09, 2014 11:19 AM (celt+)

36 34 I'm thinking about a Glock, but so many models, etc. Just want to get a CC permit and to do a little target practice once in a while. Posted by: Sphynx at March 09, 2014 03:08 PM (OZmbA) My first was a Glock 19. No complaints. Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 03:19 PM (MtC8f) Glock is a good starter pistol. Cheap, reliable. It's the AK of handguns.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:20 AM (x3YFz)

37 Glock's website has a little questionnaire you can take that will then recommend a model for you based on your needs.

Posted by: Adam at March 09, 2014 11:21 AM (Aif/5)

38 Glock is a good starter pistol. Cheap, reliable. It's the AK of handguns. Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 03:20 PM (x3YFz) So simple I could break it down!

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 11:22 AM (MtC8f)

39 Oh, at 29, not an endorsement to buy only glock. It will take you a bit to decide what is the right gun for YOU. The thing about guns is that they don't go bad. Buy one, try it, like it keep it. Don't like it, keep it. Oh wait, that's me. Guns are like tattoos. But you really can trade them and sell them until you get the one(s) that are just right.

Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 11:23 AM (mPI0W)

40 ...but Carson's statement that people's second amendment rights should be conditional based on where they live is a deal breaker. Good to know this now, rather than later.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at March 09, 2014 11:23 AM (AQTz3)

41 I have a Glock 30 and a 17C. (30 is .45, compact, 17 is full size 9mm) Like them both, not my favorites, but I'm more than comfortable with them. I'm not storming nations and kicking down doors so I don't need a pistol that fires 5k rounds without a malfunction. As long is it goes "BANG!" when I need it to, I'm happy.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:23 AM (x3YFz)

42 Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 03:23 PM (mPI0W) My indecisive butt spent an hour going from the Glock table to the XD table to the M&P table. Show next weekend Woo Hoo!

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 11:25 AM (MtC8f)

43 H & R and Iver Johnson were the poor man's top break back in the day...still around. I shot a few but they get hot and lock up...38 S & W which is an old caliber too.

Posted by: IrishEd at March 09, 2014 11:26 AM (bfm04)

44 Horde, need some suggestions -- just bought S and W .380 Bodyguard two hours ago (will pick up Wednesday) for concealed carry. Suggestions for carry / holsters?

1) Southpaw
2) Thin 'ette with some hips and minimal rack
3) No purse

Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 11:27 AM (5i94q)

45 Very funny (and true) graphic posted on The Firearm Blog showing how 1911, Glock and Hi-Point users view each other:

http://tinyurl.com/mwr79qy

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at March 09, 2014 11:28 AM (celt+)

46 I like Galco holsters. They have several options for inside or outside the waistband.

Posted by: bonhomme at March 09, 2014 11:29 AM (s7Tj7)

47 2) Thin 'ette with some hips and minimal rack For proper holster fitting, we're going to need pictures.

Posted by: garrett at March 09, 2014 11:29 AM (I33is)

48 Gays already have the right to marry. They have the EXACT SAME right to marry as straight people do. What they are asking for is special dispensation to change the law to specially favour their peculiar and particular lifestyle choice. In other words, "special rights." Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at March 09, 2014 02:56 PM (U+vgB) Marriage isn't in the constitution at all.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at March 09, 2014 11:31 AM (E8IHS)

49 1) Southpaw 2) Thin 'ette with some hips and minimal rack 3) No purse Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 03:27 PM (5i94q) I'm guessing garter holster is off the table (sexy, those). Yer going to get a million bits of advice, but 2 things: 1) dress around your gun don't gun around your dress. 2) do what you're doing: ask around So some quick tippies: I have a velcro tummy wrap that will hold a .38 special and can t-shirt over it. I have about 20 holsters of various sizes and carries. You won't find 1 holster to suit summer, winter, spring and fall; you'll need several different options. Buy ambi holsters (where you can switch the clip right to left), not pistol-specific to start with, go vanilla. Hell, I carry 5 different pistols in 8 different holsters depending on my mood and the weather and my sock color. It takes time, so be patient.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:32 AM (x3YFz)

50 @45 Taro, Heh that was hilarious. And you are right, a lot truth in that also.

Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at March 09, 2014 11:32 AM (cCxiu)

51 2) Thin 'ette with some hips and minimal rack

For proper holster fitting, we're going to need pictures.

Well, definitely getting a "flash-bang" holster. Does anyone use ankle holsters?

Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 11:33 AM (5i94q)

52 If you are thin you can carry iwb and pretty much not worry about "printing" your shirts will hang like a curtain over your piece. Bigger peeps clothing has to cling more and thus shows what's under more. Don't know about being an 'ette and how that affects tucked/untucked shirts. Also can think about an ankle. Pocket carry is possibly out if you are small. Think of your holsters as a fashion accessory, "what holster for what outfit?"

Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 11:35 AM (mPI0W)

53 Gould also makes great holsters. I can carry both my Glocks or my HK in their model B890. One of my favorites.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:35 AM (x3YFz)

54 I've had two mosins like that, both of which functioned fine after a little adjustment. Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 03:16 PM (MtC8f) Thanks--that sounds like something worth checking.

Posted by: stace at March 09, 2014 11:35 AM (9PXzx)

55 48 Marriage isn't in the constitution at all.

Posted by: HoboJerky, Hash Hunter at March 09, 2014 03:31 PM (E8IHS)

That is because it is a State issue pure and simple. The feds are not supposed to have any say in it at all.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at March 09, 2014 11:36 AM (T2V/1)

56 There was a gunshop here in GA that did torture tests on a Hi Point. Posted the video on youtube. Pretty impressive. Never owned one but if that's all you can afford it's better than nothing. They also sent the gun back to Hi Point and told them what they did. Hi Point still honored the warranty and sent them a new one.

Posted by: Adam at March 09, 2014 11:36 AM (Aif/5)

57 BANG! That's the sound of thread stompage.

Posted by: Y-not at March 09, 2014 11:36 AM (zDsvJ)

58 > 44 - Suggestions for carry / holsters? Inside waistband, or wallet. http://tinyurl.com/k4r8wyw http://tinyurl.com/kjqnybo

Posted by: luddite at March 09, 2014 11:37 AM (5VlHf)

59 Steck, this is pure theory because I've never used one, but I like the idea of a thigh holster. The downside is that you really have to be wearing a skirt/or dress to use it.

Posted by: Lauren at March 09, 2014 11:37 AM (hFL/3)

60 Posted by: Adam at March 09, 2014 03:36 PM (Aif/5) Yep. Carry what you can.

Posted by: RWC at March 09, 2014 11:37 AM (MtC8f)

61 Well, definitely getting a "flash-bang" holster. Does anyone use ankle holsters? Ankle holsters are best relegated for carrying a back-up weapon. Imagine the scenarios in which you might be forced to draw your weapon. In how many of those scenarios would you want (or be able) to stop and stoop down to retrieve a weapon from an ankle holster?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 09, 2014 11:38 AM (SY2Kh)

62 56 There was a gunshop here in GA that did torture tests on a Hi Point. Posted the video on youtube. Pretty impressive. Never owned one but if that's all you can afford it's better than nothing. They also sent the gun back to Hi Point and told them what they did. Hi Point still honored the warranty and sent them a new one. Posted by: Adam at March 09, 2014 03:36 PM (Aif/5) It's about the steel they use. Do some digging before you buy. A catastrophic malfunction means you're missing fingers, and hand, and maybe some face (see Beretta's plants in south america once they sold them to Taurus).

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:38 AM (x3YFz)

63 59 Steck, this is pure theory because I've never used one, but I like the idea of a thigh holster. The downside is that you really have to be wearing a skirt/or dress to use it. Posted by: Lauren

-------------

Well, to complete the ensemble, you need one of those Old West garter belts and a derringer.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at March 09, 2014 11:39 AM (celt+)

64 Imagine the scenarios in which you might be forced to draw your weapon. In how many of those scenarios would you want (or be able) to stop and stoop down to retrieve a weapon from an ankle holster? Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 09, 2014 03:38 PM (SY2Kh) easy: active shooter and I want to give a pistol to the poor bastard beside me. What planet do you live on?

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:40 AM (x3YFz)

65 I'm guessing garter holster is off the table (sexy, those).

Yer going to get a million bits of advice, but 2 things:

1) dress around your gun don't gun around your dress.

2) do what you're doing: ask around

So some quick tippies: I have a velcro tummy wrap that will hold a .38 special and can t-shirt over it. I have about 20 holsters of various sizes and carries.

T9, I'd definitely do garter *if* I wore skirts. Do you have any links for the velcro tummy wrap?

Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 11:40 AM (5i94q)

66 I always carry 2 + mags. Habit.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:41 AM (x3YFz)

67 T9, I'd definitely do garter *if* I wore skirts. Do you have any links for the velcro tummy wrap? Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 03:40 PM (5i94q) Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Concealed-Carry-Belly-Holster-Medium/dp/B003V5EZFW

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:42 AM (x3YFz)

68 I have a hi point, because I like to shoot a bunch and it cost me $125 total. I don't carry it, but I do shoot it every time I go, it has gone bang every time (except with steel case) and is accurate. I like it enough that I am going to get the carbine in .40.

Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 11:42 AM (mPI0W)

69 easy: active shooter and I want to give a pistol to the poor bastard beside me. Which implies that you already have one for yourself (hence the back-up exception I made) and that you aren't in the line of fire or under immediate threat.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 09, 2014 11:42 AM (SY2Kh)

70 "19 I need some advice on buying a handgun. I know next to nothing about them. Don't get me wrong. I've hunted on and off over the years. Mom used to have an Italian made Colt 45 revolver copy that I would target practice with (she could make a tin can dance along the ground with it )

I'm thinking about a Glock, but so many models, etc. Just want to get a CC permit and to do a little target practice once in a while.

Posted by: Sphynx at March 09, 2014 03:08 PM (OZmbA)"

In the ultracrepidarian traditions of AoSHQ, I shall be happy to extend to you the benefit of my opinions.

I have had a concealed carry license for years and there are several considerations but the biggest factors concerning whether you will carry your gun with you so that you will have it if you need it are size, weight and concealablity. There are a number of little .380 automatics around these days with plastic frames. KelTec was the first with its A3AT but now Ruger, Taurus and Smith and Wesson have similar guns. They are as small as previous generations of .25 automatic pistols but they fire the more powerful .380 cartridge. The only complaint I have heard about these guns is that they are so small and light that you can forget you are carrying a gun and you might take it into some place where it is forbidden by law. When it comes to shooting them, there is not much to hold on to so accuracy can be a challenge. My brother went out shooting with his two brothers in law who had Ruger LCPs and his comment was that beyond arm's length, they are not useful for anything but firing warning shots. I think that is a bit harsh but you should probably plan on practicing a lot if you get one of those things because you can only get one or maybe two fingers on the grip.

A step up in size from those are the Walther PPK size pistols. You can get all your fingers on the grip of these pistols but they are not any bigger than that. The Walther PPK dates from the late 1920s. They still make them because people still buy them. It has an aluminum frame and a steel barrel and slide. It comes in .32 and .380 caliber. Nobody stocks the .32 in the United States. They are expensive. Compared to the plastic pistols, they are heavy which makes a difference in how you carry them. James Bond carried one. The KelTek P9, Ruger LC9 and SCCY are the same size but they shoot the more powerful 9mm cartridge. My personal opinion is that this class of pistol is the best trade of of size weight and power. They can easily fit into a pocket with a pocket holster and there is no problem with printing or the weight of the pistol pulling your pants down.

My opinion is, of course, the correct one. Anyone who disagrees is a fool or a knave.

There are larger pistols and they can be carried if you get a good holster and pay a lot of attention to what you wear but I have some of these pistols and I never carry them any more since getting the SCCY. It works with any clothes from suits to shorts. It is adequately accurate and powerful. And I always have it with me which is the important thing. It has a double action only trigger for safety which some people don't like but it just takes a bit of practice to get used to.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 09, 2014 11:43 AM (PD6iL)

71 Good to hear Galco is still around. I used some of their holsters years ago- they did good work.

Posted by: backhoe at March 09, 2014 11:44 AM (ULH4o)

72 Stopping Democrats on gun control is pretty much the only issue that keeps me voting for Republicans, but I'd still vote for Ben Carson if he is the nominee.

That calculus might change if the Democrats look like they might get control of both houses of Congress, but I'm counting on Republicans to keep any gun control legislation from getting to the President's desk. Whatever Dr. Carson believes about guns, I don't see him making a big push on the issue with so many other things to deal with. And it would be worth the risk to get a few million Democrat voters to rethink the idea that Republicans are just a bunch of racists who tolerate a few black tokens but will never let them have any real power.

That being said, he's not my first choice. But this issue won't stop me from voting for him if he gets the nomination.

Sorry if this is too much politics in the gun thread, feel free to delete this comment with no hard feelings if I crossed the line.

Posted by: Paul at March 09, 2014 11:44 AM (GTyB/)

73 51?
Steck?

Used 'em for a fallback sidearm....

...of course, this was in the days of bellbottoms....

Posted by: backhoe at March 09, 2014 11:48 AM (ULH4o)

74 Paul, very rational.

Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 11:48 AM (mPI0W)

75 My opinion is, of course, the correct one. Anyone who disagrees is a fool or a knave. There are larger pistols and they can be carried if you get a good holster and pay a lot of attention to what you wear but I have some of these pistols and I never carry them any more since getting the SCCY. It works with any clothes from suits to shorts. It is adequately accurate and powerful. And I always have it with me which is the important thing. It has a double action only trigger for safety which some people don't like but it just takes a bit of practice to get used to. Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 09, 2014 03:43 PM (PD6iL) Majority of the time I'm carrying a Sig P229 and an HK2000, both .40.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:51 AM (x3YFz)

76 Once you get a favorite handgun, you become really creative at concealing it.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 11:52 AM (x3YFz)

77 Used 'em for a fallback sidearm....

...of course, this was in the days of bellbottoms....

LOL yes backhoe ... I don't have skinny hipster jeans so I could do this as well. Eventually this'll be my backup but will be the primary for now (and, like was suggested up-thread, shouldn't be down on the ankle if it's primary.)

Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 11:52 AM (5i94q)

78 "44 Horde, need some suggestions -- just bought S and W .380 Bodyguard two hours ago (will pick up Wednesday) for concealed carry. Suggestions for carry / holsters?

1) Southpaw
2) Thin 'ette with some hips and minimal rack
3) No purse

Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 03:27 PM (5i94q)"

Flash Bang

http://flashbangholsters.publishpath.com/the-flashbang

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 09, 2014 11:54 AM (PD6iL)

79 Steck, congrats on the new feminine protection! I found this site http://www.youtube.com/user/faliaphotography very helpful, and thewellarmedwoman.com also has videos on how to wear all their products. Whatever you do, you'll probably wind up with the proverbial drawer full of holsters, but I can tell you what I'm using now. However, my gun is slightly larger, and so is my middle, so YMMV. I had to reluctantly go back to wearing a belt for InWaistBand holsters, although thewellarmedwoman has a soft magnetic holster that works pretty well without a belt, and so do the sticky holsters like the Remora, in the right pants. I have those, as well as a clamshell IWB from wellarmed woman. My most comfortable IWB is my Crossbreed quick tuck. I only used the clamshell holster at first because it covers the gun very securely, and I was scared to wear my gun in anything else. My Kahr has no safety. flashbang did not work for me--I think it needs an underwire bra, which I can't stand. Some women swear by that holster though. naturallyconcealed.com is very comfortable, I've heard. I'm trying out a belly band right now, and it works well, but I think come summer it'll be too hot to wear. Pardon the random thought spew, as I recently went through this myself when I decided to move from purse to on-body carry. The current hiphugger fashion makes it more difficult, but if I can do it, anyone can.

Posted by: stace at March 09, 2014 12:03 PM (9PXzx)

Steck, I think that a Crossbreed Supertuck might be a viable solution for you. It's odd looking, but very, very comfortable..... once you've worn it enough to break it in.

Folks that use 'em, swear by 'em.

Good luck and good shooting, ma'am!

Jim

Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at March 09, 2014 12:08 PM (vvk2F)

81 77?
Steck?

I think it was a Manhurin PPK clone I wore there. .380 ACP. My main sidearm was a 1911 Colt .45. I was also a lot bigger then- 180 or 90 pounds of muscles. Just a shadow of that now. But my basic attitude is "you think you will be in a situation where you need a weapon? Get it and carry it. Laws be damned."

So I guess I've been an "outlaw" ( HT, Jeff Goldstein) in places. So be it.

Posted by: backhoe at March 09, 2014 12:08 PM (ULH4o)

82 This is a band type holster that looks kind of fun for the 'ettes: http://cancanconcealment.com

Posted by: stace at March 09, 2014 12:09 PM (9PXzx)

83 79?
stace?

All the women dear to me could shoot better than most men. And knew how to throw and take punches, too. Not a damn thing "unfeminine" about that. My Mom was a Judo instructor in what turned into the WAC's after WWII.

All kids- boys or girls- needs to at least know the basics of boxing & shooting & driving.

These are basic life skills.

Posted by: backhoe at March 09, 2014 12:16 PM (ULH4o)

84 Stace, thx on the "underwire" warning on the FlashBang - if that's the case that makes it a *total* no-go for me. Tried *very* hard to talk myself into a Kahr PM45 but just couldn't do it today. Someday maybe. I'll check out all those links.

Jim, I notice both you and stace suggest the supertuck, will definitely look into that.

backhoe, I did try carrying my full-size 1911 IWB around the house for a few days. Even with a terrific belt, um, NO.

Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 12:19 PM (5i94q)

85 Dana's got it spot on!

Posted by: Jon Dougery at March 09, 2014 12:19 PM (FYvb/)

86 backhoe, I did try carrying my full-size 1911 IWB around the house for a few days. Even with a terrific belt, um, NO. Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 04:19 PM (5i94q) Sometimes a gun is too big for the weather, what your wearing, or your size. Also consider mace, CS and tazers, not to mention knives. Personal protection ain't always about bullets.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 12:23 PM (x3YFz)

87 RE: STevo Not a single "How you doin'?" yet? You guys are slipping. 'Cept for garrett slipping in a gentlemanly pics comment.

Posted by: teej-who must be doing pretty much everything wrong at March 09, 2014 12:25 PM (M3APu)

88 84?
Steck?

Yeah, the 1911 is a heavy piece. But I was a big guy in those days and carried one of Wilson Arms Companies "witness protection 'Specials'" 12 gauge short shotguns under my suitcoat.

Now? Just a kind old grandfatherly type- who still remembers "the days of Thunder...."

Posted by: backhoe at March 09, 2014 12:27 PM (ULH4o)

89 Arrrgh. Steck not STevo. You're known by my auto correct now young lady. Apologies for not catching it.

Posted by: teej-who must be doing pretty much everything wrong at March 09, 2014 12:28 PM (M3APu)

90 The Firearm Blog linked to a piece analyzing the effectiveness of various AR-15 muzzle devices. As far as flash hiders go, it seems the good ol' standard issue six dollar A2 does the job with admirable cromulence.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at March 09, 2014 12:29 PM (celt+)

91 I have a two flashbang holsters for each of my guns. They work for me but I usually wind up using my crossbreed purse holster since I'm on and off school property all day 5 days a week. Easier to pull the purse rig in and out than the take the flashbang on and off.

Posted by: lindafell at March 09, 2014 12:29 PM (PGO8C)

92 I don't usually comment on the gun thread, but I just saw a report over at WeaselZippers about Obama's Surgeon General nominee, Vivek Murthy.
He's an anti-gun guy (pro-gun ban) who thinks doctors who should not only ask patients about gun ownership (or ask kid patients about their parents guns), but that this should be noted in the Obamacare Hub.
Defacto gun registry, right?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/n4m8t9t

Posted by: Lizzy at March 09, 2014 12:30 PM (aq/zi)

93 "Majority of the time I'm carrying a Sig P229 and an HK2000, both .40.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 03:51 PM (x3YFz)"

For years I carried a S and W 669 which is about the size and weight of a SIG P229 in an Alessi hideout holster. It is a very comfortable set up and concealable when the weather allows you to wear enough clothes. The problem is that my waist is no longer the narrowest part of my torso so the weight of it makes my pants keep falling down. One of the more common "tells" that someone is carrying is that they are constantly adjusting their clothes. That gun is a bit too large for pocket carry and definitely too heavy.

I can carry the smaller, lighter 9mm in a pants pocket while wearing a tie and tucked in shirt with no jacket. The SCCY is a double stack 10 round magazine so I am only giving up two rounds for a significant weight and size improvement.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 09, 2014 12:31 PM (PD6iL)

94 Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 04:19 PM (5i94q) You're welcome! I'm not positive it's because of the lack of underwire, but it seemed to need more structural support than my bras offer. But that may be just me, and my gun being sort of heavy. And, sorry, dudes, no pics!

Posted by: stace at March 09, 2014 12:35 PM (9PXzx)

Posted by: MichaelTiz at March 09, 2014 12:35 PM (j+PVC)

96 And not only has Dr Carson lost my vote, I wouldn't even want him for surgeon general now.

Posted by: teej-who must be doing pretty much everything wrong at March 09, 2014 12:37 PM (+jNI+)

97 92?
Lizzy?

If any Doc I see asks me about guns?
He/they? Just lost another source of income.
None of their damn business.

Posted by: backhoe at March 09, 2014 12:40 PM (ULH4o)

98 I agree - I would never tell my doc if/how many guns are in the house if he asks.

I'm just thinking that down the road, when Obamacare is more entrenched/insurance companies have been completely cowed and/or out of the picture, they'll force disclosure during health plan sign up w/a clause that if any info is untrue it jeopardizes all coverage. Forgive my tinfoil, but HHS and Obama are not above this kind of thing. Just look at how they stomped the 1st amendment w/the contraceptive mandate.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 09, 2014 12:46 PM (aq/zi)

99 Backhoe, I never learned to fight hand to hand. Your mom sounds like a national treasure. Posted by: lindafell at March 09, 2014 04:29 PM (PGO8C) The crossbreed purse holster is I think the very best way to purse carry, aside from maybe using an actual holster purse. That's a nice product.

Posted by: stace at March 09, 2014 12:50 PM (9PXzx)

100 The problem is that my waist is no longer the narrowest part of my torso Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 09, 2014 04:31 PM (PD6iL) Gettin' old sucks, don't it?

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 12:54 PM (x3YFz)

101 He's an anti-gun guy (pro-gun ban) who thinks doctors who should not only ask patients about gun ownership (or ask kid patients about their parents guns), but that this should be noted in the Obamacare Hub. Defacto gun registry, right? http://preview.tinyurl.com/n4m8t9t Posted by: Lizzy at March 09, 2014 04:30 PM (aq/zi) heh. Any doc asking about my guns is going to get a profanity-laced response and suggestions on finding a good proctologist.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 12:55 PM (x3YFz)

102 "84 Stace, thx on the "underwire" warning on the FlashBang - if that's the case that makes it a *total* no-go for me. Tried *very* hard to talk myself into a Kahr PM45 but just couldn't do it today. Someday maybe. I'll check out all those links.

Jim, I notice both you and stace suggest the supertuck, will definitely look into that.

backhoe, I did try carrying my full-size 1911 IWB around the house for a few days. Even with a terrific belt, um, NO.

Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 04:19 PM (5i94q)"

The problem with the IWB could also be the holster. Some are better than others. According to Massad Ayoob, IWB tends to be a bit more difficult for women.

I realize that this will be shocking news for some morons but women's bodies are different than men's bodies. Among other things, women tend to have higher hips. If you frequently wear a jacket, a shoulder holster might work for you but the caveat is that you can never take your jacket off when carrying, regardless of the temperature. There is also this option:

http://flashbangholsters.publishpath.com/the-marilyn1

The text suggests using it with a sports bra. That might also be an option with the conventional Flash Bang since sports bras seem to have more substantial shoulder straps and better provision to spread the weight around.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 09, 2014 12:56 PM (PD6iL)

103 "Gettin' old sucks, don't it?

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 04:54 PM (x3YFz)"

Still preferable to the alternative.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 09, 2014 12:58 PM (PD6iL)

104 I've got a 10-12 pt buck in the green belt behind my house. He's been back there about 2weeks now. The whole green belt is only about 3-4 acres and totally surrounded by houses. There is only one way in. He looks healthy but how long can he survive back there? I wonder if he's trapped or if he just keeps coming back. He'd have to cross a street surrounded by another circle of houses with restricted cut throughs. Another words, it's not easy to get into the green belt behind my house.

Posted by: lindafell at March 09, 2014 01:03 PM (PGO8C)

105 Food thread up

Posted by: Y-not at March 09, 2014 01:18 PM (zDsvJ)

106 Still preferable to the alternative. Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 09, 2014 04:58 PM (PD6iL) I inform my wife every morning that I just woke up sexier than I went to sleep. I taker her look of confusion as being overwhelmed by my awesomeness.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 01:28 PM (x3YFz)

107 Just ran into a guy, Keevin. Just got stationed here after a tour with the RTB (Ranger Training Brigade). Where the hell do these kids get these muscles nowdays? His dam arms were the size of my thighs. They don't even need guns, just give them a tree and they'll clear a battlefield. Holy crap on a cracker this kid was a giant.

Posted by: tangonine at March 09, 2014 01:31 PM (x3YFz)

108 T9, maybe he got huge on Soaked Grains ?

Posted by: Steck at March 09, 2014 01:34 PM (5i94q)

109 I sold a Third Model Target in .38(not 38Sp) because I couldn't find anything to shoot it in it. The oldest center fire gun I still shoot regularly is a Colt Officer's Model from 1910 in 38sp.

Posted by: JimK at March 09, 2014 01:37 PM (3leeg)

110 "I tell her I spread my bullets around a bit to make more leaks in any potential target. She doesn't buy that and claims that she is a better shot than me. Pshaw
Posted by: traye at March 09, 2014 03:10 PM (mPI0W"

That's what I was taught at Gunsite. WRT defensive shooting, if you're shooting into one hole, you can shoot a little faster. Let the group open up a bit, and the odds of an effective stop will be increased both because of time, and because of more "leaks" in the area of "center mass".

Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at March 09, 2014 01:39 PM (iDxBi)

111 19 I need some advice on buying a handgun.....I'm thinking about a Glock, but so many models, etc. Just want to get a CC permit and to do a little target practice once in a while.

Go to a range and rent some guns about which you might be interested. Or go with someone who has lots of different guns in various calibers and find one that feels good in your hand and shoots well for you. Glocks are great, I own several, but some do not like to carry them ready to shoot as the only safety is to keep your finger off the trigger (there is a safety system that prevents accidental discharge if dropped). Some like the comfort of a manual lever safety or a grip safety like that found on 1911s and Springfield's line of handguns. Go with what makes you comfortable and always use a holster if carrying concealed even in a purse.

Posted by: Laddy at March 09, 2014 01:52 PM (0tFfv)

112 I've had good luck carrying my Tokarev in a simple one size fits most IWB Holster (purely practice in my own home of course). I'm what is clinically termed a 'lardass' these days but it conceals fine with tails out, guyaberas, etc. Also patterned shirts help minimize printing.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at March 09, 2014 01:52 PM (Kox2s)

113 I carry an LCP .380.In a galco mini-tuck,I forget it's there sometimes!I ring steel at 7 yds consistently.If you're not recoil sensitive it's a great gun.

Posted by: mark at March 09, 2014 02:16 PM (cfWIz)

114 "112 I've had good luck carrying my Tokarev in a simple one size fits most IWB Holster (purely practice in my own home of course). I'm what is clinically termed a 'lardass' these days but it conceals fine with tails out, guyaberas, etc.

Also patterned shirts help minimize printing.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at March 09, 2014 05:52 PM (Kox2s)"

Do you carry the Tokarev with the chamber empty? It would seem that the Israeli carry and draw method might be the safest way to go with that pistol. The 7.62X25mm is an impressive cartridge and the fact that it is now possible to buy hollow point and other defensive rounds instead of just steel case Soviet surplus ammo makes the Tokarev a reasonable defensive weapon choice, and not just in case you might be shooting at people wearing bullet proof vests. The fact that the pistol is also nice and flat and not much bigger than a Colt 1903 is another factor in its suitability as a carry gun.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 09, 2014 02:44 PM (PD6iL)

115 "The 7.62X25mm is an impressive cartridge"

-----------------

It's like a miniature rifle round.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at March 09, 2014 03:09 PM (celt+)

116
Do you carry the Tokarev with the chamber empty? It would seem that the Israeli carry and draw method might be the safest way to go with that pistol.

Or look into the Yugo M57 version which has an added 1911-style safety.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 09, 2014 03:56 PM (aYjRw)

117 Stace, Thanks for making me spend more money at the cancan site. I'm going to have to give up my fake friends on the interwebz....you guys are too spendy, sheeesh.

Posted by: lindafell at March 09, 2014 04:34 PM (PGO8C)

118 #144 #116 I have one of the C&R Yugo Tokarevs which did not have a thumb safety originally but had one added to comply with BATFE regs for importations. My adventures in that regard are detailed here: http://tinyurl.com/kyslrpu

I carry with the chamber empty because of the aftermarket safety and because I use an appendix carry and I'd rather not point a loaded pistol at my own testicles no matter how good the safety is. Besides, I was trained to carry with an empty chamber in the army.

One other point. One reason I use IWB is that the tension of the belt helps to retain the pistol. Finding dedicated concealed carry for the Tokarev is a tricky business. I may pour a mould and have El Paso craft me one.

BTW, if all you have access to is ball ammo, Sportsman's Guide sells a home hollow-pointing kit.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at March 09, 2014 05:06 PM (XO6WW)

119 Posted by: Richard McEnroe at March 09, 2014 09:06 PM (XO6WW)

I saw a video on youtube about making a holster from a piece of PVC pipe and a heat gun. If you have a kind of unusual carry piece like a Tokarev, that might be a reasonable way to obtain a holster. If nothing else, it might be an interesting project.

Why appendix carry? IWB makes a lot of sense and I always found it pretty comfortable but I carried behind the right hip. Unless you are carrying during yoga class, the worst that could happen if you somehow managed an accidental discharge would be to take a divot out of a butt cheek. Aside from being uncomfortable when sitting down and difficult to draw from, I also do not like to point a loaded pistol at my favorite body parts.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-hole at March 10, 2014 01:22 AM (PD6iL)

120 I tried behind the hip, but it's more awkward than an appendix draw for me, which I can accomplish with less arm movement. Also, behind the hip I do print if I bend over and there's the risk of the shirt riding up. If I print with an appendix carry it's either yoga or true love. Finally, I spend a lot of time sitting in cars.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at March 10, 2014 09:59 AM (XO6WW)

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