Ace of Spades HQ

April 13, 2014

Gun Thread (4-13-2014)
— andy

Warning Shots

The left continues to soil itself over Florida's so-called "warning shot" bill.

Fortunately, we at the HQ know that anytime they talk about gun laws (a) they're virtually guaranteed to be wrong and (b) we can turn to Andrew Branca to get the real story:

Much of the discussion of SB-448 is replete with terms like Â“warning shotÂ” and Â“stand-your-ground.Â” In reality, however, the law does not even mention the term Â“warning shot,Â” nor does it make any substantive changes whatever to FloridaÂ’s stand-your-ground law.
...
The bill is prefaced with a legislative statement that notes that people have been criminally prosecuted and sentenced to mandatory minimum sentences under FloridaÂ’s Â“10-20-LifeÂ” statute for having threatened the use of force in circumstances where an actual use of force would have been justifiable under FloridaÂ’s self-defense laws (chapter 776).
In essence, the legislature is identifying as a problem the fact that prosecutors are sending defendants to prison for long periods of time for having threatened force, whereas if those same defendants had actually used force their actions would have been lawfully justified.

Be sure to read the whole thing.

Image h/t @ShivaPundit

Related, if you're on Twitter, you should follow Branca if for no other reason than to watch the pummeling the leftwing loons at the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence are about to receive.

Hey Andy, I sent you email about this to your AOS gun post address, but I've been personally targeted by CSGV--SO HAPPY! @AndyM1911
— Andrew Branca, LOSD (@LawSelfDefense) April 10, 2014

Also, if you happen to be in the Indianapolis area, Branca's speaking at the NRA Annual Meeting beginning at 3:45pm on April 25th.

Gun Of The Week

(answer below) Marksmanship Award

Hero of the Day - East Texas homeowner shoots, kills armed intruder - http://t.co/ctLTagDOiK #NRA #2A #ArmedCitizen (via @kltv7)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) April 11, 2014

Gun Of The Week - Answer

That's the .36 cal. Colt Model 1851 Navy. As cap and ball revolvers go, that one's a beaut. Over a quarter million units were produced before introduction of the metallic cartridge made the design obsolete.

CCW, Guns and Insurance

This very informative post is by one of our own morons and is a must-read.

Lots of attention was given, in the aftermath of the Newtown tragedy, to liability issues when a gun is used in a crime. And almost exactly a year ago, we discussed the proposal put forth by retired business owner Tom Harvey to compensate victims of illegal gun violence.
But what about the legal use of a weapon in self-defense? The rate of concealed carry permits has risen dramatically the past few years, and most folks have either home or renter's insurance. What part might these policies play if one were to injure or kill someone else in self-defense?

Tammy Bruce's Unexpected Home Defense

Conservative radio talk show host Tammy Bruce didn't know it at the time, but she was live-tweeting a break-in at her own home last night.

Tweeps, if you live alone having a firearm is good but it won't warn you about the #jerk in the basement. Yay Syd! pic.twitter.com/NeaDNV9fjP
— Tammy Bruce (@HeyTammyBruce) April 13, 2014

Bruce was alerted to the presence of a trespasser in her basement by her dog Syd, who I imagine is being served a nice ribeye at this very moment. She armed herself and called the police, who apprehended the criminal.

This situation was handled perfectly by Bruce and led to good outcomes for all involved. Bravo.

Eric Holder's Dumb Proposal For Smart Guns

Despite the fact that there's something on the order of 300 million guns in the US today and that they're very simple mechanical devices that can be built in a decently-equipped workshop, Eric Holder wants to spend our money on "smart guns" because "gun safety" or something.

This week, Attorney General Eric Holder testified on Capitol Hill that what America needs at this pivotal moment in its history is to spend $2 million for Â“smartÂ” gun technology, as part of a $382 million expenditure on what the Obama administration calls Â“gun safety.Â”
Translation: Federal Â“universalÂ” background checks, Â“assault weapon,Â” and Â“largeÂ” magazine legislation was defeated in the Senate and not voted upon in the House of Representatives last year, and gun control supporters need something else to talk about.
During his testimony, Holder voiced support for devices that would prevent firearms from being used by anyone other than their lawful owners. A common hypothetical along those lines would be to rig a firearm so that it could not fire unless it received an electronic signal from an electronic bracelet worn by the firearmÂ’s lawful owner.

Ummm, yeah. No.

How about this, Holder. We'll consider discussing this silly idea after you come clean on Operation Fast & Furious and take some responsibility for that colossal f*ckup.

Tips

If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.

The owner's manual for your concealed carry permit: The Law of Self Defense

Defend the Second Amendment. Join: The National Rifle Association * Gun Owners of America * The National Shooting Sports Foundation * Your state's second amendment org.

Celebrate America's firearms heritage: participate in Project Appleseed.

Posted by: andy at 12:55 PM | Comments (192)
Post contains 895 words, total size 9 kb.

1 1851 Colt Navy...

a personal fave and Wild Bill's as well..

Posted by: sven10077 at April 13, 2014 12:58 PM (TE35l)

2 Eric Holder wants to spend our money on "smart guns" because "gun safety" or something. Why does the term "government killswitch" come to mind?

Posted by: The Gun Hat at April 13, 2014 12:58 PM (AymDN)

3 and the introduction of the metal cartridge just meant you needed to send her to the shop boss...

I love my Richards-Mason conversion....

the 1851 begat the 1861 which in turn begat the 1872, which led to the 1873 Peacemaker

Posted by: sven10077 at April 13, 2014 12:59 PM (TE35l)

4 Eric Holder is not just stupid. He is also an unindicted felon.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at April 13, 2014 12:59 PM (T2V/1)

5 Yay! Gun Thread!! My Dad gave me an SKS, this week, I didn't even know he had. All it cost me was a Benjamin 392 he wanted for pest control. Actually, I was going to get him the pellet gun anyway...

Posted by: Spun and Murky at April 13, 2014 01:01 PM (4DCSq)

6 Eric Holder: Second largest felon in the current administration.

Posted by: OG Celtic-American at April 13, 2014 01:05 PM (vHRtU)

7 Sure, make me a "smart gun" that fires every time, works instantly when I pick it up, allows me to authorize new users, won't mistake me for someone else or vice versa, doesn't require me to do or wear or have implanted anything special, doesn't depend on batteries that fail frequently, isn't vulnerable to water, temperature extremes within normal environmental range, or EMP... ...and we'll *talk* about it. In addition to my existing selection, not to replace it. This is just another tool of The Man, tryin' to keep a brutha down. The Man is just now Eric Holder. I expect personal kinetic barriers before this technology is reliable enough to be practical.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 13, 2014 01:06 PM (qyfb5)

8 Heartbleed and the gun safety bracelet.

Just ponder that. There will be a hack to circumvent it. From a real hacksaw to merely an electronic counter.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 13, 2014 01:07 PM (/8So2)

A couple blegs for info:

1) Tikka rifles--Finnish made, budget line for Sako iirc? Anyone have experience with them? Reviews I've read online seem favorable.

2) Optics--Specific brand/model recs please. Intended application is deer/elk hunting. Willing to spend up to $1K. Sounds like mil-dot is the way to go over other reticles. Not terribly worried about nightvision capabilities (that comes later when I decide to get an AR for coyote patrol), but would consider if the price is right.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at April 13, 2014 01:07 PM (sQ0LB)

10 well in holders defense I think he is going with smart buns because he knows the NRA is more likely to make smart guns than the nea is to make smart students

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 01:08 PM (rDidD)

11 Eric "White People Don't Deserve Civil Rights Protection" Holder Holder is a proud, open racist who believes that white people deserve to be punished for the skins of long dead people with similar skin tones.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at April 13, 2014 01:09 PM (ZPrif)

12 Black powder pistols are fun to shoot and cheap. http://tinyurl.com/nvn3qlt

Posted by: Dendritic at April 13, 2014 01:11 PM (Fi+kS)

13 sins, not skins

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at April 13, 2014 01:13 PM (ZPrif)

14 13 sins, not skins

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at April 13, 2014 05:13 PM (ZPrif)

Either way. Can you help me with this couch?

Posted by: Buffalo Bill at April 13, 2014 01:14 PM (sQ0LB)

15 Hey Eric, will LEOs be required to use these smart guns too?

Posted by: butch at April 13, 2014 01:15 PM (m12IB)

16 Those laws (really clarifications) wouldn't be needed if prosecutors weren't running amok with charging people for so called crimes.

What we really need is prosecutor control. People are being overcharged to force them to plea down due to the cost and risk of trial. Prosecutors know this and so they pile on with charges.

Prosecutors in many districts are elected officials so they're trying to make a name for themselves as tough on crime.

But like the cops they go after the easy targets cause they have a better likelihood of a win or plea and those stats look good on an election poster during a campaign.

There's little oversight and almost zero accountability or liability for prosecutors to cheat, hide and just plain lie about evidence. They don't care that someone's life is ruined as long as they got their scalp and look good while they move up the ladder of success.

We need to remove some of the immunity protections because prosecutors have become part of the problem and not the solution.

Some oversight committee or some such with the powers to sanction them thru fines or loss of position.

One of the reasons cops lie and shoot first is because they know the prosecutors will cover for them.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Waiting For SMODOT) at April 13, 2014 01:16 PM (JS0vr)

17 15 Hey Eric, will LEOs be required to use these smart guns too?

Posted by: butch at April 13, 2014 05:15 PM (m12IB)

Better yet, will felons be implanted with an RFID that prevents them from firing any smart guns, bracelet or no? I'm sure the ACLU would have no problem with that, even though it is a much more logical solution.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at April 13, 2014 01:17 PM (sQ0LB)

18 2) Optics--Specific brand/model recs please. Intended application is deer/elk hunting. Willing to spend up to $1K. Sounds like mil-dot is the way to go over other reticles. Not terribly worried about nightvision capabilities (that comes later when I decide to get an AR for coyote patrol), but would consider if the price is right. Thanks in advance. Posted by: Conservative Crank at April 13, 2014 05:07 PM (sQ0LB) Leupold makes very nice scopes, made in the US and life-time warranty. Their base models were about $300 the last time I bought one a few years ago.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop at April 13, 2014 01:18 PM (1htQa)

19 Andy,

If that Colt needs a home I would be glad to help out.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 13, 2014 01:19 PM (QFxY5)

20 Holder's basic philosophy is blacks and illegal aliens can ignore all laws, whites are presumed guilty. The benefit of only allowing black criminals to own guns is that they can kill more whites, Jews, and Asians.

Posted by: pat at April 13, 2014 01:19 PM (KCg4m)

21 Black powder is a riot to shoot. Great way to have dirty fun. Especially on nice humid days--you can take cover in the cloud. Being serious, it's like holding a bit of history in your hand. Fascinating.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 13, 2014 01:19 PM (SAMxH)

22 Unclear what exactly is going on. Unclear how much control Ukraine has over it's own police forces. John Schindler ‏@20committee Is Kyiv losing Eastern #Ukraine without a serious fight? http://www.economist.com/ blogs/easternapproaches/2014/04/ukraine-crisis Â… Economist: THE KIEV authorities' hold on Donbas and much of the wider region of eastern Ukraine has disappeared. President Oleksandr Turchynov had said that a military operation was imminent and that anyone who left the seized buildings by 6.00 am on April 14th would not be prosecuted. But by nightfall, as fog covered the Donbas, it was clear that no concerted government action to take back the region was under way. The regionÂ’s police appear to have defected en masse to the pro-Russian side. Police buildings in the town of Sloviansk and Kramatorsk fell to armed men on April 12thand there were reports of other municipal buildings being taken elsewhere. A Ukrainian security services operation to restore authority in Sloviansk failed. Military or police helicopters flew over town and unconfirmed sources said crowds prevented them from landing. Along the highway leading from the regional capital Donetsk barricades have gone up, manned by men wielding clubs and metal batons. Some are armed. At the entrance to Sloviansk bigger ones have been erected. In nearby Kramatorsk, small groups of men stood by the police station and nearby barricades.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at April 13, 2014 01:21 PM (ZPrif)

23 RBC, the $300 Leupolds I saw I think were shotgun and muzzleloader type scopes. Do you have a specific model to recommend?

Posted by: Conservative Crank at April 13, 2014 01:21 PM (sQ0LB)

24 Hey Eric, will LEOs be required to use these smart guns too? Posted by: butch at April 13, 2014 05:15 PM (m12IB) Exactly. In fact, smart guns would be a real life saver for LEOs, as a fairly large number of cops killed with firearms while on duty are killed with their own sidearm. So I'm all in favor of letting Law Enforcement be the guinea pigs......err, test subjects.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 13, 2014 01:21 PM (AHzA7)

25 Hey Andy - Thanks for the kind words about my CCW/insurance post, and esp for including it in the vaunted SGT!

Posted by: speedster1 on the iPad at April 13, 2014 01:23 PM (noB3y)

26 I've been out of the loop all day, do we know what kind of weapons the Kansas shooter used?

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 13, 2014 01:24 PM (ZshNr)

27 Posted by: Conservative Crank at April 13, 2014 05:21 PM (sQ0LB)

This is a Leupold 4.5x14x40 with a pretty interesting option for a custom dial. You send the data to Leupold and they engrave the dial with your rifle's ballistic data integrated into adjustment marks.

And Leupold makes gorgeous stuff. I have one on my deer rifle and it has never failed me.

http://tinyurl.com/q7x7hv4

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 13, 2014 01:26 PM (QFxY5)

28 This isn't the first time a Jewish center has been attacked and it won't be the last one. I'm surprised that no one was armed there. A guard or a parent. Overland Prk is a rather conservative area. I wish the cops had shot the guy did. Save the people of KS the cost of a trial and 3 hots and a cot for god knows how many years.

Posted by: Rowan Atkinson at April 13, 2014 01:28 PM (8c12T)

29 Leupold Is it: 'loy-pold' 'loo-pold' or 'low-pold' ?

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at April 13, 2014 01:28 PM (SZLoS)

30 I'm pretty sure we immediately need a 5 to 10 year evaluation period of ALL federal personnel authorized to use or possess a weapon to use the smart bracelets. Not just in their official capacity, but personal as well. Only way to be sure it works.

Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 01:29 PM (C0WBF)

31 Regarding Eric Holder and Fast and Furious, Andy wrote, "How about this, Holder. We'll consider discussing this silly idea after you come clean on Operation Fast & Furious and take some responsibility for that colossal f*ckup." The Fast and Furious operation wasn't a colossal fuckup if the idea was to track straw-bought guns using dead bodies heaped at bloody crime scenes as the tracking mechanism. Over two hundred corpses so far (and counting). Somewhere there's a map of Mexico in an ATF briefing room with little red pins stuck all over it. Success!

Posted by: troyriser at April 13, 2014 01:30 PM (ptcFO)

32 CBD, that's a nice looking scope. Any idea how much to get a mil-dot reticle instead?

Posted by: Conservative Crank at April 13, 2014 01:30 PM (sQ0LB)

33 I'm all for smart guns. 100% equipping of Police and bodyguards first, though.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at April 13, 2014 01:30 PM (UYiBe)

34 did = dead

Posted by: Rowan Atkinson at April 13, 2014 01:31 PM (8c12T)

35 Afternoon fellow Morons. Found a SIG P227 at the local Academy. I luv luv me some SIG 45 ACP goodness! Also ordered a Beretta CX4 in 9mm. It shows up Tuesday. Everything I have heard indicates that it will be a fun shooter. Anyone have any experience with them?

Posted by: pilot141 at April 13, 2014 01:31 PM (nPwzA)

36 It is pronounced lew-pold. But we say Leo-pold if we want someone to know what we are talking about. LOL

Posted by: pat at April 13, 2014 01:32 PM (KCg4m)

37 Smart guns? All guns deserve a chance to go to college!

Posted by: The Smart Hat at April 13, 2014 01:33 PM (AymDN)

38 Despite the fact that there's something on the order of 300 million guns in the US today and that they're very simple mechanical devices... This. I have one that was introduced in 1911, and one from 1894, and a couple with less illustrious pedigrees. It's a technology that we got right, we got it down, and we've been at it a while. If you keep halfway decent care of it it never stops working. But, like, magic bracelets or something.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 13, 2014 01:33 PM (1xUj/)

39 Posted by: pilot141 at April 13, 2014 05:31 PM (nPwzA Are you somebody I might know?

Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 01:33 PM (C0WBF)

40 Optics--Specific brand/model recs please. Intended application is deer/elk hunting. Willing to spend up to $1K))) If you are willing to spend up to $1K make a point to look at Zeiss and Nikon. I have Zeiss microscopes in my lab and they are the best which is why I was willing to spend the extra on a Zeiss rifle scope that I love. Nikon will likely be a little cheaper and they make microscope optics comparable in quality to Zeiss. http://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/en_us/hunting/home.html

Posted by: Dendritic at April 13, 2014 01:34 PM (Fi+kS)

41 OT Politics and Radical Islam.

Dearborn Muslims angry over flyer about an egg hunt at a Presbyterian church. Claiming it violates separation of church and state. If you hate this place so much, go back to the sand trap you came from.

http://tinyurl.com/pdr55op

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 13, 2014 01:34 PM (/8So2)

42 3 DEAD IN SHOOTING AT KANSAS JEWISH CENTER: GUNMAN YELLED 'HEIL HITLER' breitbart.com

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 13, 2014 01:34 PM (IXrOn)

43 I am thinking of buying a Henry .44 Mag. I already have a Ruger revolver. Anyone have the Henry? Like it?

Posted by: pat at April 13, 2014 01:34 PM (KCg4m)

44 38 Despite the fact that there's something on the order of 300 million guns in the US today and that they're very simple mechanical devices...

This. I have one that was introduced in 1911, and one from 1894, and a couple with less illustrious pedigrees. It's a technology that we got right, we got it down, and we've been at it a while. If you keep halfway decent care of it it never stops working.

But, like, magic bracelets or something.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at April 13, 2014 05:33 PM (1xUj/)

Magic bracelets that will respond to a radio or Wi-Fi signal that disables any non-LEO firearm within a half mile of any police action? Because that's the kind of "magic" I expect with these bracelets.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at April 13, 2014 01:34 PM (sQ0LB)

45 >> If that Colt needs a home I would be glad to help out. I'd love to have one. It'd make a nice 3rd Colt revolver to go along with my SAA and M1917.

Posted by: Andy at April 13, 2014 01:35 PM (vGQV1)

46 Are you somebody I might know? Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 05:33 PM (C0WBF) Could be. Flew the Lizard at The Quagmire in the 90s.

Posted by: pilot141 at April 13, 2014 01:36 PM (nPwzA)

47 Dendritic, I tried looking at the Zeiss and Nikon web pages earlier this week, had difficulty sorting out the options and such--though was looking on my phone. Will have to recheck with my laptop on their full sites.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at April 13, 2014 01:36 PM (sQ0LB)

48 Nip Sip is on the Masters thread complaining about there not being a gun thread today. When he gets here eventually, please make fun of him. Thanks.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 13, 2014 01:36 PM (oMKp3)

49 Oh, noes!!!1!!! The real Mr. Bean dumped his wife of 23 years for some young chickie boom boom.

Posted by: Rowan Atkinson at April 13, 2014 01:36 PM (8c12T)

50 That's what she said.

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 13, 2014 01:37 PM (ZshNr)

51 Could be. Flew the Lizard at The Quagmire in the 90s. Me - CHS 82 - 87, and SBD 90 - 92

Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 01:37 PM (C0WBF)

52 Anna, if it was a hunt for a Jew 'hiding behind a tree', the Muslims would be all in favor.
The fact is, Muslims are terrified that their kids will realize it is a second rate death cult. So they attempt to radicalize the kids with hatred. An egg hunt is just too benign for their tastes.

Posted by: pat at April 13, 2014 01:37 PM (KCg4m)

53 Well, I dunno about guns, but my 22 yr old just bought his first. I mean HE bought it. He already inherited his grandfather's shotgun and Mr DeV gave him some kind of pistol for his 21st bday. This is his first independent purchase with his own money....which must mean it's pretty cheap. It is interesting though. A 1942 Russian Mosin Something-or-other. The wood is nice. I just wonder who used it and where. You know it had to be used in WWII. Probably by some slob who either got shot by the Germans or ended up in the Gulag. Who knows? All of Mr DeV's old guns are ones passed down in his family. Great history and family tradition, but no mystery about them. But I'll bet some of you have old guns you wonder about. Who owned it? Where did they have it? How many chupacabras did they take out?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at April 13, 2014 01:38 PM (dfYL9)

54 Re black powder shooting: one of the most accurate handguns I own is a Pietta reproduction of the 1861 Colt Navy .36 caliber revolver. I get amazingly tight groups with that thing (as long as I keep the loads consistent). Forgive the pun, but black powder shooting is literally a blast. I taught my kids how to shoot handguns starting out with black powder revolvers, partly because loading them is fun (at least for me) and partly because fireballs and big clouds of smoke are really cool.

Posted by: troyriser at April 13, 2014 01:38 PM (ptcFO)

55 Crank. That is exactly what the Feds wish. A NSA for firearms.

Posted by: pat at April 13, 2014 01:39 PM (KCg4m)

56 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 13, 2014 05:34 PM (/8So2) Vic posted this eArlier in the week. He also posted they back tracked it as well.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 13, 2014 01:40 PM (/djtm)

57 Me - CHS 82 - 87, and SBD 90 - 92 Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 05:37 PM (C0WBF) Cool. Different times, but we probably know some of the same people. We had some Norton guys come down to Panama where I did my fist assignment in 92. (C-27s)

Posted by: pilot141 at April 13, 2014 01:41 PM (nPwzA)

58 Anna, if it was a hunt for a Jew 'hiding behind a tree', the Muslims would be all in favor. The fact is, Muslims are terrified that their kids will realize it is a second rate death cult. So they attempt to radicalize the kids with hatred. An egg hunt is just too benign for their tastes. Posted by: pat at April 13, 2014 05:37 PM (KCg4m) see weaselzippers Canadian College Student Dons Hijab To Prove People Are Racist . . . Instead Finds People Are Nicer To HerÂ… dumb@$$

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 13, 2014 01:41 PM (IXrOn)

59 Are you somebody I might know? Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 05:33 PM (C0WBF) As a former paratrooper, were you the same 141 driver who dropped my stick into the trees on Normandy drop zone in 1983? Me and a few other of the guys would like a word.

Posted by: troyriser at April 13, 2014 01:43 PM (ptcFO)

60 Cool assignment - I saw it listed, but got RIF'd in 92.

Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 01:43 PM (C0WBF)

61 What if your warning shot hits the target? What then?

Posted by: Han Solo at April 13, 2014 01:44 PM (bitz6)

62 Someone should put up the open thread for the rest of us that want to discuss the shooting, etc.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 13, 2014 01:45 PM (IXrOn)

63 Posted by: Han Solo at April 13, 2014 05:44 PM (bitz6) Free lessons from the local range.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at April 13, 2014 01:46 PM (/djtm)

64 As a former paratrooper, were you the same 141 driver who dropped my stick into the trees on Normandy drop zone in 1983? Me and a few other of the guys would like a word. Very possibly, though I blame the guys on the ground. Given the number of times the jumpers landed in the woods, I'm almost up to probably. Was it one of the night CFs?

Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 01:47 PM (C0WBF)

65 47 Conservative crank The salesman that I deal with on Zeiss microscopes is also a big hunter. It might be worth giving him a call. I don't think he sells stuff from that division but is knowledgeable and probably wouldn't mind the diversion. http://www.focuspi.com It's a one man business his name is Joel Ash

Posted by: Dendritic at April 13, 2014 01:47 PM (Fi+kS)

66 I recently picked up a Rogers & Spencer .44. They were introduced late in the Civil War and it's disputed as to whether any saw action. Regardless, I really like the thing--it's a solid frame revolver--strong as hell. Accuracy is great with 32 grains of 3fg. I prefer guns like these, having shot a couple of brass frame (Colt open top) guns loose.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 13, 2014 01:48 PM (SAMxH)

67 41 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 13, 2014 05:34 PM (/8So2)

That is an old story and the local Muzzie leadership has already disavowed the idiot who pushed it. In fact they held their own gathering in front of the church supporting them and donated $500 for the egg hunt.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at April 13, 2014 01:49 PM (T2V/1)

68 Any word on what kind of gun was just used at that Jewish Center in Kansas?

Posted by: Rightrt at April 13, 2014 01:50 PM (OUoYi)

69 What if your warning shot hits the target? What then?

Posted by: Han Solo at April 13, 2014 05:44 PM (bitz6)

Then you go with a head shot for peace of mind and eat the expense.

Posted by: Peaches at April 13, 2014 01:52 PM (8lmkt)

70 68 Any word on what kind of gun was just used at that Jewish Center in Kansas?

Posted by: Rightrt at April 13, 2014 05:50 PM (OUoYi)

One of the news blurbs said witnesses said it looked like a shotgun. But the 72 hour rule applies.

Posted by: Vic[/i] at April 13, 2014 01:52 PM (T2V/1)

71 It is interesting though. A 1942 Russian Mosin Something-or-other. The wood is nice... I just wonder who used it and where. You know it had to be used in WWII. Probably by some slob who either got shot by the Germans or ended up in the Gulag. Who knows? Posted by: Margarita DeVille at April 13, 2014 05:38 PM (dfYL9) He bought a Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 rifle, which fires the 7.62 x 54R cartridge. I own one of those, as well as the M44 carbine, a more compact version of it. Amazingly good rifles: inexpensive, sturdy, powerful, fun to shoot, reasonably accurate, and absolutely reliable. I write 'reasonably accurate' because some of them have seen a lot of use, with greater and lesser degrees of care given by their original owners. Some Mosin owners trick their rifles out with new aftermarket stocks and the like, but I think the original wooden stocks are beautiful, and treat mine with lemon oil every time I clean them.

Posted by: troyriser at April 13, 2014 01:54 PM (ptcFO)

72 The Real Sport of Kings: Shooting Target Drones With Twin MG-42 Machine Guns http://tinyurl.com/o6lmbqe

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl at April 13, 2014 01:54 PM (u8GsB)

73 Shooting my Tokarev. Love my Tokarev. But it will not chamber Wolf 7.62 x 25 hollowpoints with any of my mags. Keeps digging nose of bullet into base of ramp. If I short load mags one or two rounds I can cycle gthem manually but the slide locks back on each shot. No prob with any brand of ball. Any suggestions?

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at April 13, 2014 01:54 PM (EKiYg)

74 Very possibly, though I blame the guys on the ground. Given the number of times the jumpers landed in the woods, I'm almost up to probably. Was it one of the night CFs? Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 05:47 PM (C0WBF) Just kidding. We never blamed the pilots for bad jumps. They were always night jumps.

Posted by: troyriser at April 13, 2014 01:55 PM (ptcFO)

75 OK better late than never! I scored a brick of 22LR from my local Scout Ex at a fishing trip I took him too. Who would ever have thought that would be a nice thank you gift? It is now!

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 13, 2014 01:56 PM (0FSuD)

76 If I short load mags one or two rounds I can cycle gthem manually but the slide locks back on each shot. No prob with any brand of ball. Any suggestions? Posted by: Richard McEnroe at April 13, 2014 05:54 PM (EKiYg) I own two Tokarevs, one Yugoslavian and one Polish. Neither likes hollowpoints. I stick to ball for both. That's just how it is.

Posted by: troyriser at April 13, 2014 01:58 PM (ptcFO)

77 I love reading the Armed Citizen posts, BUT sort of sad that they need mentioning at all. Thirty years ago killing an intruder was NOT news.

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 13, 2014 01:58 PM (0FSuD)

78 Hey Peaches! Any range time this week? I got to spend last weekend at the range with the grumpy grandma and the Lil Punkin; had to go by myself today.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at April 13, 2014 01:59 PM (60Vyp)

79 73, Richard. There is likely no solution. Like the original 1911. The Tokarev is notoriously finicky, It was desined for military ball, and that is all there is to it. The amazing thing is that if used with the righ ammo, it will shoot fo a 100 years.

Posted by: Pat at April 13, 2014 02:00 PM (KCg4m)

80 Son just got back from Argentina. Shot a 1,000doves! They are rats in the sky. Farmers pay the hunt guides to kill them and then they charge you to shot them. Good work if you can get it.

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 13, 2014 02:00 PM (0FSuD)

81 I know it's boring compared to guns that actually go boom, but I've been toying with buying one of those worm-eaten, half rusted antique Mosin-Nagants you see for sale online. As a wall hanger. Caches of them turn up once in a while. I think the one I was closest to buying was found in Nepal, like 90 years after being mustered up or shipped and forgotten.

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 13, 2014 02:01 PM (ZshNr)

82 71 ---"Mosin-Nagant" That's it! I will give him the lemon-oil tip. Thx!

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at April 13, 2014 02:01 PM (dfYL9)

83 They were always night jumps.Posted by: troyriser at April 13, 2014 05:55 PM (ptcFO) I always felt bad when I heard some of the guys hit the trees, and sometimes got hurt bad, and I'm sure they felt a whole lot worse than me. The multi-plane formation jumps were also "challenging". The 9-ship formations were a goat-rope start to finish.

Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 02:04 PM (C0WBF)

84 I always felt bad when I heard some of the guys hit the trees, and sometimes got hurt bad, and I'm sure they felt a whole lot worse than me. The multi-plane formation jumps were also "challenging". The 9-ship formations were a goat-rope start to finish. Posted by: 141Driver at April 13, 2014 06:04 PM (C0WBF) The worst jump I had was into a beet field in Germany during Reforger. It was like landing on a sack of bricks. Black and blue for days.

Posted by: troyriser at April 13, 2014 02:07 PM (ptcFO)

85 I can identify that gun. It's a deadly and reprehensible assault machine gun.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at April 13, 2014 02:09 PM (Dwehj)

86 Leftists don't really like logic. Later, all. God bless. :-)

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at April 13, 2014 02:11 PM (9W+0f)

87 73 Richard It may be your mag spring is too strong. You could try buying a new spring see if it helps. If it doesn't clip one coil at a time from the spring between test firing.

Posted by: Dendritic at April 13, 2014 02:12 PM (Fi+kS)

88 Breaking News ‏@BreakingNews Police: Suspect in Kansas City-area shootings is in his 70s and was taken into custody without incident - @NBCNews http://nbcnews.to/OZgBCa

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at April 13, 2014 02:13 PM (ZPrif)

89 @9 2) Optics--Specific brand/model recs please. Intended application is deer/elk hunting. Willing to spend up to $1K. Sounds like mil-dot is the way to go over other reticles. Not terribly worried about nightvision capabilities (that comes later when I decide to get an AR for coyote patrol), but would consider if the price is right. I really dig my Vortex Viper PST scope. They come in mil-dot or MOA and in differing zoom ranges (6-24x, 4-16x, 2.5-10x). They've got 10 levels of reticle illumination--the lowest of which are suitable for night vision equipment. I've provided a link to the product page of the version I bought (6-24x, first focal plane) which will run you about $950. Note that second focal plane versions will be considerably less. If you're primarily using this for hunting, 6-24x is probably overkill. I got the MOA reticle. However, virtually all spotting scopes are in mils so I (or the spotter) have to convert between MOA<-->mils. More often than not, I'm shooting solo so it doesn't really matter. http://tinyurl.com/vortexviperpstffp

Posted by: Sandra Fluke's Solid Gold Diaphragm at April 13, 2014 02:14 PM (bHnlE)

90 87 link for Tokarev mag springs. http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=68

Posted by: Dendritic at April 13, 2014 02:14 PM (Fi+kS)

91 81. You want a way more fun wall hanger and a project, go to Atlantic Cutlery and get a ancient kukuiri and the Martini rifle of similar age. Google it. That is what the Nepalese guards really used.

Posted by: Pat at April 13, 2014 02:15 PM (KCg4m)

92 "CCW, Guns and Insurance"

For Pete's sake, insurance concerns will hit you on far less chancy matters than CCW.

I asked my insuror about expanding our coverage to include an "umbrella" liability policy a few years ago. The agent said, "Can I ask you a few questions?"

I said, "Sure, of course, go ahead."

First question: do you have guns in the house?

I said, "Yep."

She said, "No point in going any further. We won't write the policy. Try another firm."

Posted by: torquewrench at April 13, 2014 02:15 PM (noWW6)

93 She said, "No point in going any further. We won't write the policy. Try another firm."

Fundamental. Change.

Posted by: Prez'nit 404 at April 13, 2014 02:17 PM (Dwehj)

94 Funny, here in Idaho a "warning shot" is what we call it when you hit the intruder in the leg, and don't want to admit that you don't spend nearly enough time at the shooting range.

Posted by: RampantConsumerism at April 13, 2014 02:18 PM (kpMJ2)

95 The master is still going on. Guess what? The assholes yelling "in the hole" aka tiger fans, are nowhere to be seen/heard. Has anyone heard "in the hole" the entire tournament? Ban Tiger.

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 13, 2014 02:19 PM (0FSuD)

96 35 Afternoon fellow Morons. Found a SIG P227 at the local Academy. I luv luv me some SIG 45 ACP goodness! Also ordered a Beretta CX4 in 9mm. It shows up Tuesday. Everything I have heard indicates that it will be a fun shooter. Anyone have any experience with them? Posted by: pilot141 at April 13, 2014 05:31 PM (nPwzA) Nice! I'm considering a CX-4 myself. Let us know how it runs.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 02:19 PM (doBIb)

97 @92 I would be calling Bull Shit on that. You live in NY, MA or NJ? Maybe.

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 13, 2014 02:21 PM (0FSuD)

98 in the press conference they said a shotgun, handgun and possibly an assault rifle. apparently it was a 19th century muzzle loading assault rifle.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 02:22 PM (rDidD)

Bought Andrew Branca's "The Law of Self Defense."

Got a good deal, less than $20 from his website including shipping. He has a coupon for $5 off to celebrate his being targeted by a failed attack from the hoplophobes at CSGV.

I (finally) bought it after seeing his analysis of the Zimmerman Persecution at Legal Insurrection. His analysis from the criminal law point of view was very interesting, especially his review of the trial tactics. Some of his snark had me laughing out loud, and damned near ROFLMAO.

Andrew, FYI Please make the unsubscribe button on the order form more visible. I like your writing, and catch your posts at Legal Insurrection. But I Do Not Want E-Mails because I bought the book. Or make it an OPT-IN please.

Posted by: rd at April 13, 2014 02:22 PM (D+lxs)

100 92 TW Interesting. This post was outside my normal zone (life/health) but I had some great expert help writing it. Hadn't thought about looking into what you're describing - looks like I'll need to do some additional research and a follow- up post. Thank you!,

Posted by: speedster1 on the iPad at April 13, 2014 02:22 PM (noB3y)

101 guy arrested in overland park looks like my dog walker.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 02:23 PM (rDidD)

102 It's always the dog.

Posted by: Son of Sam at April 13, 2014 02:25 PM (1xUj/)

103 has someone forwarded a link on overland park coverage to the malaysians so they can see how you hold a press conference?

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 02:26 PM (rDidD)

104 So Tammy Bruce had a doped out transient in her basement? Anyone seen ace today?

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 02:27 PM (doBIb)

105 Re: mild of scopes, I LOVE me some Leupold, have one on my FAL, but they really don't do mild of so great yet. They have the Mark IV and the Mark AR scopes, but if you are going mildot, look at the Vortex Vipers. The big difference is that Vortex has a dial revolution counter, so you know how many revolutions up you are when you start going for long range shooting. Equal quality glass, same warranty.

Posted by: Oedipus at April 13, 2014 02:27 PM (y9dfJ)

106 Crank I have several tikka rifles. Our 7mm is extremely reliable and accurate. I think they are fantastic guns and highly recommend. What are you planning on hunting I've also had good success with Nikon Monarch scopes with the bdc reticle.

Posted by: Tominca at April 13, 2014 02:28 PM (wsPYX)

107 The Confederates made their own .36 Navy. Most notably, I believe, the Griswold & Gunnison. High Standard made a very nice replica. Pic of High Standard: http://tinyurl.com/ngxpox4 History: http://blackpowdersmoke.com/revolvers/index.php?topic=210.0

Posted by: Wizard at April 13, 2014 02:28 PM (aDwsi)

108 My two cents on scope reticles . In low light or when using older eyeballs the thicker reticles like heavy duplex are easier to see . I have a 6.5 x 20 leupold with mil dots and the crosshairs are a little too fine for my geriatric eyes . Conservative Crank , look at the Leupold fixed power scopes for good value . I've an M8 4power that's 40 years old and going strong . Big variables are the thing these days but the old 4 power has killed a lot of deer over the years . I made a witnessed shot with mine at around 280 yds. once . So ,, 4 power is plenty for a real rifleman . umm , not that I'm a real rifleman but I used to shoot a lot and have had some good teachers including some from the army marksmanship unit .

Posted by: awkward davies at April 13, 2014 02:33 PM (whqez)

109 I have a reproduction 1861 Colt Army 44 caliber. I love the look and balance of it. Actually, the gun slipped out of my hands and landed in the middle of Flathead Lake along with the rest of my firearms. Damn shame how that happened.

Posted by: fairweatherbill deerslayer at April 13, 2014 02:33 PM (cn7jK)

110 This young lady is wearing an.. interesting.. holster http://www.pinterest.com/pin/309341068125989679/

Posted by: kbdabear at April 13, 2014 02:35 PM (aTXUx)

111 Gun items. 1. Picked up a Henry Survival Rifle. Nominally a gift for the oldest boy who just turned 13. 2. We were going to go to the range at NRA HQ but timing did not work out. But I found out it is an awesome deal and way closer than the range I used to go to. I will be going soon. 3. Ken Cuccinelli started a business doing prepaid legal for gun owners. Seems to be geared to the defense of legal gun use.

Posted by: blaster at April 13, 2014 02:36 PM (4+AaH)

112 "You live in NY, MA or NJ?"

CA. Pretty much just as bad as any of those.

So another thing about Commiefornia and firearms law.

Was out driving in the SF Bay Area with a guy who is an attorney and used to work in the local prosecutor's office.

We went past someone's house in a bad part of town. It had a version of that "Do Not Expect A Warning Shot" sign. It also had signs saying "Security System By Smith And Wesson" and "If You Are Found Here At Night You Will Be Found Here In the Morning." That last with a chalk body outline.

The lawyer said, "Funny stuff. But this guy better hope he NEVER has a shooting incident on his property. Because I absolutely guaran-damn-tee you that the prosecutor will show those signs to a jury and claim that they prove he was a reckless cowboy wannabe vigilante itching to plug someone. And around here, 9 out of 10 juries will totally buy that."

He asked me if I had any such signs. Nope. He said, "Smart feller. Keep it that way for your own good."

Posted by: torquewrench at April 13, 2014 02:36 PM (noWW6)

113 The 10-20-life statute doesn't make sense to me. It's saying that one could serve time for stating that he will defend himself (which is a legal and lawful act)?

Posted by: Titanium at April 13, 2014 02:36 PM (6iwzV)

114 This young lady is wearing an.. interesting.. holster ITT. Inside the thong.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 02:37 PM (doBIb)

115 Actually, the gun slipped out of my hands and landed in the middle of Flathead Lake along with the rest of my firearms. Damn shame how that happened. Not to worry, it's in deep fresh water so when the divers bring it up there won't be any corrosion.

Posted by: Panhandler at April 13, 2014 02:38 PM (LqVNJ)

116 Bubba's going to the 18th hole with a three shot lead.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 13, 2014 02:38 PM (oMKp3)

117 Part of Cameron's Easter Message: "There are Christians around the world who are ostracised, abused Â— even murdered Â— simply for the faith they follow" While, in London: TEACHER TOLD JEWISH TEEN SHE'D 'GO TO ONE OF YOUR GAS CHAMBERS' A Jewish teenager was told by her teacher that she would be sent to "one of your gas chambers" after she unhooked a rope barrier to skip the lunch queue at a school in North London. The incident, which is said to have left the unnamed girl "shocked and upset", occurred at the posh North London Collegiate School, reports the Daily Mail. http://tinyurl.com/phzyc7

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 13, 2014 02:39 PM (IXrOn)

118 115 Actually, the gun slipped out of my hands and landed in the middle of Flathead Lake along with the rest of my firearms. Damn shame how that happened. Not to worry, it's in deep fresh water so when the divers bring it up there won't be any corrosion. Posted by: Panhandler at April 13, 2014 06:38 PM (LqVNJ) Wait, another "canoe" incident?

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 13, 2014 02:39 PM (0FSuD)

119 Guns N Boobs - Another .. interesting .. holster & sideboob http://www.pinterest.com/pin/309341068125093352/

Posted by: kbdabear at April 13, 2014 02:40 PM (aTXUx)

120 Bubba's going to the 18th hole with a three shot lead. Posted by: grammie winger at April 13, 2014 06:38 PM (oMKp3) Yep. He's got this, I think.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at April 13, 2014 02:40 PM (IXrOn)

121 Threw a set of Hogue polymer ivory grips on my stainless Vaquero.

Purty. Not as purty as the higher-end imitation ivories or American Holly, but definitely $43 purty.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 13, 2014 02:46 PM (celt+)

122 115, it's an awfully big lake. Really deep too. But good luck to those inclined to try finding them. 118, yup it was a canoe all right. Real tippy, and the Black Velvet had a grip on my equilibrium. Damn shame.

Posted by: fairweatherbill deerslayer at April 13, 2014 02:47 PM (cn7jK)

123 So I'm at the range right now testing out the new 762 upper My target blew off from the wind Uggggh

Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 13, 2014 02:48 PM (dNkDl)

124 My target blew off from the wind Steel plates, yo!

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 02:49 PM (doBIb)

125 124. Can't They're banned from the rifle side Which sucks

Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 13, 2014 02:50 PM (dNkDl)

126 125 124. Can't They're banned from the rifle side Which sucks Yeah that sucks.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 02:52 PM (doBIb)

127 On the bright side, the dude next to us is letting nck shoot his Beowulf Ill slip him a 20 for ammo

Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 13, 2014 02:52 PM (dNkDl)

128

at Conservative Crank,

Get into the catalog of Vortex riflescopes. I've got the Vortex Viper PST, 4x16- 50mm scope, with 2nd focal plane MOA reticle & turrets. It also features an illuminated reticle, with brightnesses compatible with night-vision gear, all the way up to daytime use.

This model is too large and heavy to be a good hunting rig, but it's one hell of a scope. It also comes in Mil-Dot, for the same price (appx $700, street), and First Focal Plane reticle, about $200 more.

Their hunting scopes are equally good, and a couple hundred bucks less. Sixe and weight more in line with a mountain rifle.

I'll run 'em against Nikon's best, and right up there with a MK III Leupold.

So, while a Mk IV Leupold is better, as is a Nightforce, you're well into the $3k range on those. Go beyond, up to U.S. Optics and such, and you're over $4k, easy.

The Vortex line, especially in the above $500 zone, is a helluva strong lineup, deserving it's place alongside the legends.

Oh, and I prefer MOA, for the mathematical simplicity of ranges and tables which to me, work in an "analog" fashion in my mind. My mental calculator works it faster than Mil-Dot, by far.

Jim

Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at April 13, 2014 02:53 PM (vvk2F)

129 Ha!!! Quote: I think I had my first orgasm

Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 13, 2014 02:55 PM (dNkDl)

130 OT Politics and Radical Islam. Dearborn Muslims angry over flyer about an egg hunt at a Presbyterian church. Claiming it violates separation of church and state. If you hate this place so much, go back to the sand trap you came from. http://tinyurl.com/pdr55op Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 13, 2014 05:34 PM (/8So2) But they would be quite happy if the teacher handed out flyers with farm locations that provided halal meat on the hoof.

Posted by: Jen at April 13, 2014 02:55 PM (Mt+Yq)

131

Afternoon 'rons.

Spent the day lusting after hi-cap 1911's when it hit me- with a 10 round mag fully loaded and one in the chamber, the hi-cap 1911 only has a 3 round advantage. Is dropping $500+ worth it for 3 rounds? Nope. Darned cost to benefit ratio.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 02:55 PM (VqV1Z)

132 Heh 5 rounds did her in Wuss (12 yo girl)

Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 13, 2014 02:56 PM (dNkDl)

133 Must be Mosin week, as Gingy just picked one up as well. She also built out her M-4. Between that and a couple of hundred rounds for each of them....the bank account is wincing. Best deal on Mosin ammo is buying these old Soviet "spam tins", bout a hundred bucks for 440 rounds. It amuses me that they're almost as old as I am. Tell your son that that old Soviet ammo is corrosive, he's got to clean his weapon each firing session. Good news is those are tough old guns, you really don't need anything other than boiling water to do it. Gingy likes her CX4, hers is chambered in .45 and has a bit of a kick. Still, it's a great little carbine.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 13, 2014 02:58 PM (0vWqa)

134 131 Afternoon 'rons. Spent the day lusting after hi-cap 1911's when it hit me- with a 10 round mag fully loaded and one in the chamber, the hi-cap 1911 only has a 3 round advantage. Is dropping $500+ worth it for 3 rounds? Nope. Darned cost to benefit ratio. Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 06:55 PM (VqV1Z) What are these mags made of? Platinum?

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 02:58 PM (doBIb)

135 Gingy likes her CX4, hers is chambered in .45 and has a bit of a kick. Still, it's a great little carbine. I think that will be my next boating accident victim. Was considering the KelTec Sub 2000.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:00 PM (doBIb)

136 I expect personal kinetic barriers before this technology is reliable enough to be practical. Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 13, 2014 05:06 PM (qyfb5) And even then there's still absolutely no reason for a gunowner to want it - it's not a feature, it's a handicap. Maybe if it was coupled with an auto-aiming computer - but you're still better off without this "smart" tech.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at April 13, 2014 03:01 PM (M9BzG)

137

EC, I mean the double stack 1911's vs. the single stack guns. I have an SA A1 single stack I have tweaked a little and I use the Chip McCormick 10 round magazines.

Here I was drooling over the RIA, SA, Para, and their 3 extra rounds when I realized how silly it was.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 03:02 PM (VqV1Z)

138 EC, I mean the double stack 1911's vs. the single stack guns. I have an SA A1 single stack I have tweaked a little and I use the Chip McCormick 10 round magazines. Here I was droolingover the RIA, SA, Para, and their3 extra roundswhen I realized how silly it was. Not three. The Para 14.45 holds 14 rounds. Is that worth it?

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:04 PM (doBIb)

139 Curiosity prompts this question--I've had several discussions about home defense weapons, and in these debates the sentence "racking a slide will scare many intruders away". Personally, I feel that a weapon in this state of readiness is little more than a club or a rock. All my stuff has a round chambered if it's used as defense. What is the view here?

Posted by: irongrampa at April 13, 2014 03:04 PM (SAMxH)

140 Need some advice from the Rons (and Ettes, too). Planning on buying a C02 Pistol to get the RightWingDaughter used to a handgun (and also, just because I want to plink cans in the back yard). The RightWingWife gets a bit freaked out at the mere mention of guns, since she grew up in a family of high-class wimmen folk. So I figure a C02 pistol is a good way to get the camel's nose in the tent. I'm hoping to spend less than $100, and would like 1) Rifled Barrel 2) At least some adjustment possible in the sights 3) At least a 5 or 6-shot magazine so I'm not always reloading. At that price range, I'm sure there's a lot of crap out there, but I figure maybe some of you Rousey Bastiches might be able to put me some knowledge.

Posted by: RightWingPRof at April 13, 2014 03:05 PM (RtR5I)

141 Jim, sage advice as usual. Were you originally trained on MOA? It sounds like the people who broke in with mil dot to start can do the mental math pretty quickly, range estimates and the like. I think Gander and at least one of the local gun stores carry Vortex, will spend some quality time with their catalog if I can.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at April 13, 2014 03:05 PM (sQ0LB)

142

EC, I can get 11 in a single stack. So at $100 + for each additional bullet in a double stack....nope.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 03:07 PM (VqV1Z)

143 Tentatively scheduled to go to the range with Son and a neighbor who has a membership (pretty much have to wait for someone to die to get a membership anymore). Birthday's coming up so it's time to get my CC(H?) paperwork in and purchase my own gun.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at April 13, 2014 03:07 PM (GDulk)

144 Re: Richard's Tokarev Remington Golden Saber hollow-point bullets. Also, polish, profile, verify similar muzzle energy and bullet weight, check springs as above, the chamber may also need a slight polishing if it's tight.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 13, 2014 03:08 PM (qyfb5)

145 What is the view here? Condition 0 or 1 if you can do it.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:08 PM (doBIb)

146 Here I was drooling over the RIA, SA, Para, and their3 extra rounds when I realized how silly it was.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale

----------------

Yep. If you can't solve your problem with eight rounds of .45 ACP, you need to carry an AR-15.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 13, 2014 03:09 PM (celt+)

147 142 EC, I can get 11 in a single stack. So at $100 + for each additional bullet in a double stack....nope. Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 07:07 PM (VqV1Z) Ok, I understand. I thought you were referring to 11 vs 8 for full size 1911's, not 14 vs 11. I get it now.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:10 PM (doBIb)

148 Curiosity prompts this question--I've had several discussions about home defense weapons, and in these debates the sentence "racking a slide will scare many intruders away".

Personally, I feel that a weapon in this state of readiness is little more than a club or a rock. All my stuff has a round chambered if it's used as defense.

What is the view here? Posted by: irongrampa

----------------

I hear this nonsense all the time. My reply is, "So, the plan is to let someone get within earshot with your weapon empty?"

I'm surprised nobody has marketed a rail-mount "chick-chick" sound maker.

Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at April 13, 2014 03:13 PM (celt+)

149

Taro Tsujimoto, that is what the bullpup ak-47 is for.

For anyone wondering, I have had perfect luck with the Chip McCormick 10 round single stack 1911 magazines.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 03:13 PM (VqV1Z)

150

CC..... yeah, I'm an olde farte, who cut his teef on MOA. But, it's instinctively easy..... most everything is a division or multiple using either a half or quarter, and all the math stays with those constants.

To me, Mil-Dot is at it's best in a First Focal Plane scope, as the size of the dot remains constant to the target plane, and then the ease of that calculation system come into better play.

Costs more money though, most FFP scopes are spendy.

Oh, and the Vortex site has some great write ups on the differences between 1st and 2nd focal plane scopes, as well as the MOST CLEAR PRIMIERS on using Mil-Dot or MOA scopes EFFECTIVELY.

Study those, and you'll be making a truly well informed decision, regardless of what brand of scope you eventually choose.

Enjoy!

Jim

Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at April 13, 2014 03:15 PM (vvk2F)

151

No problem EC, I realized I was not as clear as I could be. Besides, I should spend the money on completing my half dozen gun projects instead of buying more guns.

I cannot believe I just said that...

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 03:15 PM (VqV1Z)

152 151 No problem EC, I realized I was not as clear as I could be. Besides, I should spend the money on completing my half dozen gun projects instead of buying more guns. I cannot believe I just said that... Barrel....

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:16 PM (doBIb)

153 Aw come on EC, I said SHOULD, not that I would.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 03:17 PM (VqV1Z)

154 "I'm surprised nobody has marketed a rail-mount "chick-chick" sound maker. " A friend of mine was troubled with homeless people sleeping in his driveway (in SF) so he rigged a motion sensor that lit up the driveway plus played a recording of big dogs barking.

Posted by: navybrat at April 13, 2014 03:19 PM (JgC5a)

155 If you want a decent high capacity pistol. This is the one I like Ruger P91DC. http://tinyurl.com/pl5jqk8 They used to sell kinda fake 20 round mags for them ( would only load 10 rds) but if you clipped the mag springs they functioned correctly.

Posted by: Dendritic at April 13, 2014 03:19 PM (Fi+kS)

156

BC, you sendin' 'im to the rifled barrel, or the smoothbore? Muzzle stuffing or breech?

I've heard bad, bad things about 'round these parts 'bout the front-stuffin' barrel y'all use.

Bad. Things.

Jim

Sunk New Dawn

Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at April 13, 2014 03:20 PM (vvk2F)

157 Hehe... I'm working on a 1911 project myself in a way. I ordered a Wilson Combat for my stepson for his 21st. He will be away on deployment when he turns 21, but hopefully I will have it when he returns home. Here's an approximate pic of the options and finish I spec'd... http://i57.tinypic.com/2cprd3c.jpg

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:21 PM (doBIb)

158 155 they functioned correctly with 20 rds

Posted by: Dendritic at April 13, 2014 03:21 PM (Fi+kS)

159 Curiosity prompts this question--I've had several discussions about home defense weapons, and in these debates the sentence "racking a slide will scare many intruders away". Personally, I feel that a weapon in this state of readiness is little more than a club or a rock. All my stuff has a round chambered if it's used as defense. What is the view here? Posted by: irongrampa at April 13, 2014 07:04 PM (SAMxH) Yeah, the sound of racking a slide or pump will scare away lots of goblins. But not all. And that assumes that one has the time to realize that the house is being broken in to. If he's close enough to threaten with the racking sound, he's close enough to be a threat worthy of deadly force.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 13, 2014 03:22 PM (AHzA7)

160 EC, that 1911 is drool worthy. He's a lucky guy.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 03:23 PM (VqV1Z)

161 Thanks. It will be engraved too. He just has to promise to let me shoot it at least once.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:24 PM (doBIb)

162 anyone look at cliven bundy and see psychodad?

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 03:25 PM (rDidD)

163 Curiosity prompts this question--I've had several discussions about home defense weapons, and in these debates the sentence "racking a slide will scare many intruders away". Personally, I feel that a weapon in this state of readiness is little more than a club or a rock. All my stuff has a round chambered if it's used as defense. What is the view here? Posted by: irongrampa Round in the chamber. You have so little time to recognize a threat and draw. Racking a slide will add additional 1-3 seconds, is easy in a nervous situation to misrack, and now you are screwed. The Tueller drill is a good example of how fast an attacker can be on you. http://tinyurl.com/pnz2c66

Posted by: Jen at April 13, 2014 03:25 PM (Mt+Yq)

164 I think justified had a good demonstration of the 21 foot rule.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 03:27 PM (rDidD)

165 Don't shoot it EC! You won't want to give it back.

Posted by: Tilikum the Killer Assault Whale at April 13, 2014 03:27 PM (VqV1Z)

166 164 I think justified had a good demonstration of the 21 foot rule. Didn't work out for Danny.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:27 PM (doBIb)

167 165 Don't shoot it EC! You won't want to give it back. I will probably order one for myself!

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:28 PM (doBIb)

168 Didn't work out for Danny. Posted by: EC at April yeah, heh, the anus was on him to prove the rule too.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 03:29 PM (rDidD)

169 Whoa Ill post a pic of her 50yd target on the ONT Impressive

Posted by: Navycopjoe at April 13, 2014 03:29 PM (M3WNi)

170 yeah, heh, the anus was on him to prove the rule too. What? This guy? I don't understand you Y5.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:31 PM (doBIb)

171 For any other gun moronette on here tonight. http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Magnum_P.I._-_Season_1

Posted by: Jen at April 13, 2014 03:32 PM (Mt+Yq)

172 I agree about racking a slide to kick off you home defense. It is a good story but how often has it really been used or had an effect in a home defense scenario? I have heard stories about a cornered suspect surrounded by multiple cops but never one about a guy defending his family at o dark thirty.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 03:32 PM (rDidD)

173 If I need to use a weapon instantly, it has GOT to be very near at hand and ready to run. Just safe off, and shoot.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 13, 2014 03:34 PM (SAMxH)

174 yeah, heh, the anus was on him to prove the rule too. What? This guy? I don't understand you Y5. Posted by: EC at April wasn't danny the guy with the beard who was alwayswanting to prove the 21 foot rule? he was gonna try it with raylin but got tripped up. his cousin dewey was yelling at some hookers about giving away his gator necklace and turtle dog sculpture and said something along the lines of "the anus being on them" to safeguard his gifts when he cam to take his gifts back. he meant to say "onus" I was making a big stretch to mix my crowes.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 03:35 PM (rDidD)

175 174 yeah, heh, the anus was on him to prove the rule too. What? This guy? I don't understand you Y5. Posted by: EC at April wasn't danny the guy with the beard who was alwayswanting to prove the 21 foot rule? he was gonna try it with raylin but got tripped up. his cousin dewey was yelling at some hookers about giving away his gator necklace and turtle dog sculpture and said something along the lines of "the anus being on them" to safeguard his gifts when he cam to take his gifts back. he meant to say "onus" I was making a big stretch to mix my crowes. Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 07:35 PM (rDidD) LOL!!! I was quoting Dewey when he was be taken away. Raylen tells him to stop talking in the third person, and Dewey thinks he's talking about the cop driving him away. "Who? This guy? Sometimes I don't understand you, Raylen." Hahahaha!!!! I hope Dewey comes back next season.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:38 PM (doBIb)

176 You can shoot someone six or eight times and they can still kill ya. I read these stories (police reports) of people surviving multiple gunshot wounds. Then I find out that most people survive handgun wounds. Way over fifty percent. That's why practice makes perfect, I suppose.

Posted by: navybrat at April 13, 2014 03:40 PM (JgC5a)

177 You can shoot someone six or eight times and they can still kill ya.

You need frangible ammo.

Posted by: Al Sharpton at April 13, 2014 03:44 PM (8lmkt)

178 shit, bad sock. a thousand pardons.

Posted by: Peaches at April 13, 2014 03:44 PM (8lmkt)

179 Hahahaha!!!! I hope Dewey comes back next season. Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 Oh I missed your dewey quote, did he say that in the drug dealers lair?

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 03:45 PM (rDidD)

180 Oh I missed your dewey quote, did he say that in the drug dealers lair? No, it's Dewey's last line of the show after he gets arrested and put into the cop car.

Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 03:46 PM (doBIb)

181 I expect personal kinetic barriers before this technology is reliable enough to be practical. The slow blade penetrates the shield though.

Posted by: toby928© at April 13, 2014 03:47 PM (QupBk)

182 On a personal note, the PSL is now sporting a Black Horse SVD skeleton stock and polymer forearm. It looks totally bad assed, and it has a resonable LOP now.

Posted by: toby928© at April 13, 2014 03:48 PM (QupBk)

183 No, it's Dewey's last line of the show after he gets arrested and put into the cop car. Posted by: EC at April 13, 2014 07:46 my bad. dewey will be back, he is a human cockroach. I was sure danny was gonna whack him after he got the heroin back, criminals are lazy.

Posted by: yankeefifth at April 13, 2014 03:50 PM (rDidD)

184 Sigh - I have been too much in the 19th century lately - I recognized the Colt Navy at once. Popular throughout the pre-Civil War West. It was a refinement of the Walker Colt, which was a bruiser of a weapon, and which remade Sam Colt's fortunes as an arms manufacturer. (The Walker was a refinement of his original revolver, the Paterson, which was light and mechanically complicated - but ideal for close-range fighting from horseback.)
Once you had fired every round from a Walker, you had a dandy set of brass knuckles. It weighed almost five pounds. I had a lesson in Colts and Patersons from a local collector as part of the research for the Adelsverein Trilogy. He had a brace of replica Walkers, and wore them on a gun-belt for an all-day re-enactor event. He was in severe pain by the end of the day.

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at April 13, 2014 03:50 PM (Asjr7)

185 163 Curiosity prompts this question--I've had several discussions about home defense weapons, and in these debates the sentence "racking a slide will scare many intruders away". Personally, I feel that a weapon in this state of readiness is little more than a club or a rock. All my stuff has a round chambered if it's used as defense. What is the view here? Posted by: irongrampa Round in the chamber. You have so little time to recognize a threat and draw. Racking a slide will add additional 1-3 seconds, is easy in a nervous situation to misrack, and now you are screwed. The Tueller drill is a good example of how fast an attacker can be on you. http://tinyurl.com/pnz2c66 Mr bad guy will have to have amazing hearing to catch the sound of the safety on my Benelli going hot.

Posted by: Jean at April 13, 2014 04:04 PM (Aqvh6)

186 He had a brace of replica Walkers, and wore them on a gun-belt for an all-day re-enactor event. He was in severe pain by the end of the day. Posted by: Sgt. Mom at April 13, 2014 07:50 PM (Asjr7) The Walkers and subsequent generation dragoon revolvers were saddle guns, intended for cavalry use. Carrying a dragoon revolver--any model--on one's hips was a bad idea. A modern-day Hunter bandoleer holster would probably do the trick. Heavy and cumbersome as they are, I love shooting them, though. Guy had a 3rd Model dragoon at the range and he let me shoot it. Powerful gun. The original (fully charged) Walker was the most powerful revolver on the planet until 1937, with the advent of the .357 magnum. Tempted to buy one of the Uberti Walker reproductions but I'm already having a hard time explaining away that last Colt Army Special revolver purchase to my girlfriend. "Who shoots .41 Long Colt?" she says. "I do," says I.

Posted by: troyriser at April 13, 2014 04:05 PM (ptcFO)

187 The guy in Kansas that killed 3 at the Jewish center was using a shotgun what do you think ? Double 00 or a slug ?

Posted by: Rightrt at April 13, 2014 04:36 PM (OUoYi)

188 00

Posted by: The Walking Dude at April 13, 2014 05:12 PM (DMkJu)

189 Of course Federal Law enforcement types - you know like the Attorney General- will have a "Skeleton Key" bracelet that allows them to fire any smart gun - because...Shut UP.

Posted by: [/i] [/s] [/u] [/b] An Observation at April 13, 2014 05:46 PM (ylhEn)

190 " Then I find out that most people survive handgun wounds. Way over fifty percent."

Thus the phrase... "and one to the head."

Posted by: richard mcenroe at April 13, 2014 07:14 PM (XO6WW)

191 By the way, thank you everyone who responded to my Tokarev question.

I do have a little gizmo from sportsmansguide.com that will let me hollowpoint conventional ball ammo. How well they will work depends on the jacket thickness, I guess. Something to try once I unpack it.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at April 13, 2014 07:18 PM (XO6WW)

192 Kudos to Bruce. Curious how she handled the dog/weapon/police dynamic. If my dog were off leash I would fear for my best friend when the police entered. But off leash is the best way for him to protect you if someone pops out of the basement with a weapon. You obviously can't answer the door with weapon in hand. But this can make things very awkward, particularly if your HD go to is a long gun. Dog + firearm=effective self defense. Introducing police at the door introduces many other variables, and can obviously lead to miscommunication and tragedy. Did she just leave the front door open with Syd on leash? If you had an intruder at bay with a dog and a long gun, how would you handle the calling police and answering-door dynamic.

Posted by: NYC Parent at April 14, 2014 04:02 AM (6Z4S1)

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