1 Guns are racist!

2 OT: BREAKING - MIKE WALLACE DEAD AT 93 Honest journalism died stillborn.

3 The regular book thread is going up in a few minutes.  My apologies for stepping on this one.

4 >> The regular book thread is going up in a few minutes. My apologies for stepping on this one.

No problem. Give it a half hour or so and then push it down like a fat ginger kid on the playground.

5 OT: BREAKING - MIKE WALLACE DEAD AT 93 Honest journalism died stillborn. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at April 08, 2012 11:01 AM (Af3Wg) RIP I'll speak ill of him some other day.

6 There's definitely been a sea change in the cultural attitude towards guns, a change that's more fundamental than a few popular TV shows. And more than just fear of a SCOAMF re-election, although that's certainly a large factor. I think that the general public has just collectively realized that the gun grabbers have always been full of shit, and that the good far outweighs the bad when it comes to firearms.

7 OK, thanks Andy, it will go up a little after 11:30 Eastern Time,

8 I just added a Remington 870 tactical to the collection. Had a hard time finding one in stock. Basspro had just got a couple in while I was there. The guy said they go out as fast as they come in.

9 So, which show should I watch as a gun novice to get over my gun anxiety? Our PD is useless, and they are releasing criminals in CA.  A friend of mine, a Sgt. in a nearby PD, recently brought a .22 for his wife and one for his daughter for that reason.

10 Buy your ammo wholesale by the case load-1000rounds-and save.  mil-surp ammo works just fine, check for corrosive.  Many of the wholesale ammo distributors are out of stock'back order on the popular calibers:.308,   .223, and 7.62x39.  Ruger is 6 months behind on production. Buy a lot, shoot a lot.  Ya gotta keep yer hand in... 

11 Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 08, 2012 11:09 AM (FIE/L) The Signal is getting through.

12 Ah, Mike!  So good to see you.  Just drape yourself over that benck, Dan Rather will be here in a minute.

13
"Asshole" is about the nicest thing I can say about Mike Wallace.

14 I got my CT pistol permit shortly the JEF got power.

I still have yet to buy my first piece.
this is what I am looking to get:

Safe
22 semi
45 semi
38 revolver
Pump shotgun
One of those reissue M1 carbines.

Ideas?

15 The NYT predicted a nationwide bloodbath due to the Heller decision. Not so much.

16

Here in the Phoenix area, guns are readily available, but the upper-end, desirable weapons are in short supply. In the handgun realm, most stores will have a variety of Glock, Taurus, or Ruger available.  Polymer pistols like the Glock or Springfield Armory XD or XD(m), are very reliable and pretty easy to find.

Start looking for a 1911-style, and you'll mostly find the lower-end, like Rock Island.  Upper-end 1911's like Colt, Springfield Armory, or Kimber are tough to find.

 

Many gun stores have on-line search functions, and you can get a feel for availability and price. One local store always shows out-of-stock on high-end stuff, but when you walk in he has the best selection I could imagine, but charges about $50 more per item than the other locals who don't have any in stock.

17 Learned the basics of re-loading last week from a buddy . WAY easier than I thought .

18 One of those reissue M1 carbines. Ideas? Posted by: Irregular Joe at April 08, 2012 11:15 AM (DSb3T) I prefer the M1 Garand.

19 22 people in my CCL class Thursday night.

20 Out, damned sock!

21 It's those damned zombie movies.

22 For the Zombie Apocalypse you will need a shotgun and crossbow. On TWD a few weeks ago they had an infinite capacity shotgun that looked pretty cool.

23 It's been a good week gun-wise for the Cur. On Friday I just took delivery of a couple of cases of ammo and a sweet unissued antique Finn M39 rifle. Plus, earlier in the week my brother just bought his first pistol, AND his first rifle (Glock 17 and Ruger 10/22). My SiL was going to pick up her first as well, but she was having problems deciding what would be best for her so she's holding off for a bit.

24 took an LTC course a month ago, had to sign up in januarary they fill up as soon as they become avail.

25 Good suggestion for getting a gun - does it feel OK in your hand? Next, try to find a gun range that allows you to rent the type of gun you're interested in, and put a box of ammo through it. Get over your nervousness about the product and be a consumer - ask questions. Have some mercy on the salesperson and try to ask questions during their slow times, like during the workweek. They usually work on commissions and the weekend is when they do the most sales.

26 Back when ammunition was scare it was high as hell. Stuff like .357 you had to buy by individual rounds. I gather that prices have eased up now.

If so I need to go out and buy some .357 and .45.

27 Prices might not have changed much in three years, but at least you can get most of the ammo now. 

28 If everyone in America that wanted a gun could easily get one, the crime rate would plunge.

29 My father taught me to shoot when I was ten(ish) and I enjoy skeet/trap shooting, upland game birds, and deer. But Vietnam kinda took the fun out of it, and the last firearm I carried was that M-14. But I'm feeling the need for a 12ga for home defense, and a .308 for deer. The shotgun is next on my list right after a chain saw (for fire wood, silly).

30 First year in a while I haven't bought a firearm for Christmas . Just reloading stuff . .45 acp, ought six , .223 , and shotguns . Of course now I want a tube gun . Cheapest way to get into highly accurate long range big bore rifles . That still means around 2 grand , not counting good glass . Maybe next year , especially if I sell a couple of my current arsenal to free up some funds .

31 Gracias, Señor Eric!

32 Some of the rooskie ammo out there is very dirty.

33 My fiancee and I are not gun owners (though I intend to buy one in the near future). We both love Top Shot, and I often watch Sons of Guns.

34 1st Question in a series: Who are you protecting yourselves against?

35 For those of you just starting out, a must-read site is Kathy Jackson's corneredcat.com. Originally written for new women shooters by a woman, it turns out to be a great resource for all new shooters regardless of gender. I'm proud to say that I was able to get one of our moronettes to buy her first gun based on my recommendation of Mrs. Jackson's site.

36 As somebody contemplating a first gun purchase, it's a quasi-Doomsday sort of thing.  I can easily imagine a situation where the US Gov't either collapses or becomes significantly weakened.  And while Obama is no small part of my fear, the fact is that our society can't seem to wrap its head around unsustainable debt and entitlements.  The fact that there's a good chance this thinly veiled socialist could get reelected after all the nonsense he's done as President is a very bad sign for our civilization.  The Paul Ryan plan, derided as right wing extremism, is actually the bare minimum we need to do as a country to avoid sovereign default.

Quote from a recent Mark Steyn column: "There’s a famous exchange in Hemingway’s The Sun Also Rises. Someone asks Mike Campbell, “How did you go bankrupt?” “Two ways,” he replies. “Gradually, then suddenly.” We’ve been going through the gradual phase so long, we’re kinda used to it. But it’s coming to an end, and what happens next will be the second way: sudden, and very bad."

37 1st Question in a series: Who are you protecting yourselves against? Doesn't matter. The important thing is that my life and the lives of my loved ones are worth defending. Period.

38 the Lady that lives two houses up from me works at the Glock plant in Smyrna,Ga. says they are shipping out more than they ever have. she has worked there for years.

39 Well dagny , I'm mostly protecting myself and family from ferocious white tail deer and wild turkeys . One never knows when a firearm needs to perform double duty against goblins . My shotgun would make short work of a home invader .

40

341st Question in a series: Who are you protecting yourselves against?

Well, last year my wife took a vacation day and was relaxing with her Kindle when 2 "yoots" tried breaking in. She hid, called the police, and the "yoots" were arrested. Two days later, she said "F*** this, I'm not going to put up with being afraid. I want a gun." 

That weekend, I got her a Glock 19. She practices regularly, and can field strip it, clean it, and reassemble it. Just got her a SA XD(m) 9MM 5.25 for her birthday.

41 37 From whom?

42 Why do you think sales are increasing? Do you think it's because meat prices have gone up or for some other reason?

43 Hi Cagney, it's kinda like to insuranse to cover life, liberty, etc. etc.

44
Guns? Who said anything about guns?

45 (Before you guys get pissed at me, I'm glock certified, btw. I'm just interested in the logical progression of the reason for increased gun sales).

46 I looked at some of the stats a few months back and part of the rise in ownership is due to women and Democrats! upping their gun purchases percentage wise. The increase is not just due to redneck bible-thumpers bitterly clingin'. Still, Buck Ofama.
 
Some of it is paranoia and some of it is, perhaps, an increased sense of personal responsibility for protecting yourself and your family. Certainly there has been a big move in various state laws that make it easier to exercise 2nd Amendment rights.
 
Another part of it is increased social acceptability. Take pool and poker for example -- two competition sports now widely popular, but very stigmatized in the not so distant past. Sport shooting is gaining in acceptance as well.

47 "I love Top Shot and Sons of Guns because I'm a gunowner. Do these shows really appeal to the non-gun owning public enough to turn someone into a first time gun buyer? I hope so."

Not really.  The shows only really appeal to me as much as other reality-TV type shows.

Having a kid has done more to increase my interest in owning a firearm than anything else.

48

I have a shotgun.  I'm not a good shot, but a shotgun is forgiving when aimed in the general direction of a home invader.

Why? I live alone, not too agile anymore and we live in dangerous times.

49 I understand that it's for the preservation of life, liberty and property but WHO are you going to need the weapon against? Why has the fear increased?

50 C'mon dagny . Did you miss the last election ?

51 I fired rifles as a kid and then with my uncle Sam in the Army. Grew up in a blue state and now live in a slightly more enlightened state. Bought my first gun in 08 and now own more. I don't have a ccw but plan to get one. As far as calibers, I like to standardize as much as possible. That said I find myself buying 22LR, 9mm Para, both 357/38, and 5.56. Imagine if I didn't standardize?

52

I haven't bought any more firearms for several years.  Last time I was in a gun store, looked around a while and just didn't see anything I couldn't live without.  Now I just tend to buy a little bit more ammo.

 

Mrs Cop wants to get a handgun but doesn't know what she wants yet.  She took a little "first shots" shooting course and really enjoyed shooting a Ruger .22 semi-auto.  I'm going to take her to the local pistol range, rent a couple pistols and let her see what she likes.

53 Nobody seems to care about the classic old hunting rifles anymore.  Blue-brown steel and nice walnut and a hundred stories to tell in each one,   But then, there are fewer hunters with every passing year, and the median age is up, up, up.

54 Sorry Dagny, still not used to this phone changing what I type.

55 #14 - Irregular Joe: opinions on this are like a$$holes, but here's my 2 cents - Home defense? get a shotgun with a rail and mount a light on it. easy to handle, less penetration. Planning to carry? lots of choices in mid/small frame semi-autos. I personally wouldn't go smaller than 9mm (prefer .40 or .45...but I'm usually carrying my PF9, so...). No revolvers - too heavy for the throw weight for concealed carry IMO. Best suggestion? find a range that rents guns; try out several and see what works for you. For my money, glock is hard to beat $/value. but so MANY great options out there, see what works for you. Q: what's the best carry gun? A: the one that you *are* carrying.

56 Several of my more liberal friends openly brag about their shooting now. Big change from college when guns were "teh big evil". Its a growing acceptance and that Heller decision. The "science is settled", so to speak. The fiancee has been bugging me for a while about getting one. Heh. There's her zero anniversary gift.

57 50 Nope. I didn't. In fact I'm much more afraid than I used to be and think that civilization is barely hanging on. But I'm still trying to get someone to say who they think is going to try to kill them or take their stuff. I know who I think it's going to be and it's not the old lady across the street even though she's a big dem.

58 I will tell you one reason that I own guns, and this is a reason for which I have not a small amount of shame.

Young people hate their elders today. Or, say, people over 50 years. They think we have left them a fucked up world. In some regards I will agree with them, we are leaving them a crushing debt.

And whether that hatred is justified or not, it is there.

So they might not wait to come after us when we are in the nursing home.

59

Don't go to the Kel-Tec website for a while. It had the Smart HDD trojan virus. The PMR-30 is interesting, but .22 mag is expensive.

Kahr makes new M1 carbines. They list for $950. but are sold out.

For that price you can get a much better AR type.

60 I buy 30.06 by the case at the CMP store in Alabama and sadly they have run out of the millions of cases of pre-clipped ammo and now only sale bulk cases and those will be gone soon. There are no more M-1 Carbines and only a few M-1 garands left. Used to be it was hard to make a decision on which one you wanted but there has been a real rush on these guns and they are nearly gone. Too bad Obama is blocking the sale of nearly a million of these guns from Korea. Makes no sense. I am buying all of the surplus ammo they have just so I can have some cheap target ammo.

61 Dagny,

I usually tell people the home arsenal is in case of the Humongous. When the Warrior of the Wasteland camps out in my front yard, I'll have something for his happy ass.

62 The thought of liberals with guns is horrifying to me.

63 I understand that it's for the preservation of life, liberty and property but WHO are you going to need the weapon against? Why has the fear increased?

Posted by: dagny at April 08, 2012 11:39 AM (CMM9V)

--------------------------

I think a lot of people that are non-traditional gun owners see dipshittery such as the OWS goofs talking about the need for revolution, the misunderstood minority yoots forming flash-mobs and a general sense that things are just f*cked up has increased the anxiety.  Mrs. Cop has gone from being frightened by firearms to wanting one of her own over the last few years.

64 45 (Before you guys get pissed at me, I'm glock certified, btw. I'm just interested in the logical progression of the reason for increased gun sales). Posted by: dagny at April 08, 2012 11:38 AM (CMM9V) Not mad atcha' not at all. Knew you weren't playing the anti's game. My original answer still stands though. Who/what we defend against isn't as important as who we defend. Because guns aren't about Death, as the gun-grabbers would have people believe. They are about Life. Hunting, defense, recreation etc, all are about preserving and enjoying life.

65 49: Dagny I think its more

 A.  More fear of losing 2nd amendment rights driving 'purchase now' than any immediate increased fear of society.  but

B.  A strong sense that the Dem's have set us on a trajectory that WILL lead to some kind of government/monetary crash and in the chaotic period that follows it may be important to be be able to hunt and to defend oneself from desperate people.   

66 But I'm still trying to get someone to say who they think is going to try to kill them or take their stuff.

Government employees, Fill in job title
here________________.

67 Dagny at 57 .... The underclass or the govt . Not necessarily in that order . Underclass varies in pigments depending on where you live . The govt also varies in uniform types depending on what kind of threat you "alledgedly" represent . Could be atf , fbi , natl guard , dea , scled , hell,,,dept. of education has swats now . Better watch those student loans .

68 @64 - plus like 11eleventy11!!

69 And some of us dags just have to. You see, we took an oath. And oaths are important things.

70 For what it's worth ... I live in Houston in Shirley Jackson lee's district. Holder and the MFM is trying to start a race war, and they may succeed. I will not be unarmed in this war, And if you doubt the intent, please tell me what they would do differently if that is their intent. There, I said it, but now I can never post at NRO again.

71 When the Federal govt. goes belly-up, I don't expect too much anarchy.  State and local law enforcement will continue to do their jobs.  We will just have to figure out how to pay them, since U.S. dollars will be worthless.

72 >I still have yet to buy my first piece.
>this is what I am looking to get:

>Safe
Liberty Safe makes a great product. Spendy, but good quality.

>22 semi
Rifle - You can't beat a Ruger 10/22
Pistol - Browning Buck Mark or Ruger Mark 2

>45 semi

This is a *big* field. If you want a classic American weapon, you can't beat a 1911 style.  I have a SA Range Officer myself and it runs very nice, as a target pistol. If you just want something to shoot at the range or for competition the SA RO or TRP are good choices.  Kimber makes some really nice stuff too.  You can cheap out on a 1911 and end up with a piece of shit too, so caveat emptor on that.

As much as I like my 1911, I would *not* recommend a 1911 for a novice shooter as a carry weapon due to the way the safety is set up.  Once you have a few years of familiarity with the platform, then absolutely.  For a novice carry weapon, I think one of the modern polymer striker fired pistols are the way to go.  This includes Glock, S&W M&P, Springfield Armory XD series, and many many others.  I personally carry a Walther PPS in .40 cal. just because it is so damned easy to conceal.  There are as many opinions on what to carry as there are shooters and the important thing is to find something you're comfortable with that fits your hand and body. 

There are pistols that one person can conceal no problem that jut out and print like crazy on someone else because of the differences in body shape.  Find one that fits you and go with it.  Do NOT cheap out on a holster. The holster is the difference between you forgetting the gun is there and having it poke you in the ribs every time you sit down.

>38 revolver

Sorry, no help here as I'm not a revolver guy.  Not saying they're bad, just not my thing and I don't know much about them.

>Pump shotgun

Benelli makes some great shotguns, but they're spendy.  If you're wanting something to have in case of a home invasion, then take your pick (in order of price and quality, although they're clustered pretty closely together) Remington 870, Mossberg 500 and Winchester Defender.  All three will go bang when you pull the trigger.  Load 'em up with #6 bird shot and you're good to go.

>One of those reissue M1 carbines.

I'm with the guy above, I prefer the M1 Garand to the carbine as a practical matter.  That said, one of my friends has an M1 Carbine that is fun as hell to shoot.  There just isn't any practical use for the thing because of the anemic round.  That said, I'm not saying I wouldn't add the paratrooper model to my collection if I found one for the right price. But that's because I think its a "cool" gun with some interesting history, not because its a spectacular performing firearm.

Anyway, hope that helps. I'm sure there are differing opinions out there, as there always are when it comes to firearms....

73 Dagny, sounds like you have something specific you're trying to say but you're wanting someone else to say it first.

74 And I pray to God that we never have to defend our homes and families from harm.

75

On TWD a few weeks ago they had an infinite capacity shotgun that looked pretty cool.

 

Herschel the gun hater's, no less.

76 @71 I don't know Jimbo. State and local can't "protect" you now, just "pick up the pieces" afterwords. If society were to fall to that level, no way they could keep up. It will be up to family, neighbors and friends to look out for one another. I for one have no desire to see that day!

77 Part of the reason bullets have gone up in price is the DHS buying millions of rounds to short the supply.

78 I bought my very first gun right after the Zer0 got nominated and then another a couple of years later. I hadn't picked up a gun for years & frankly hadn't even entertained the thought of owning one.  It wasn't difficult to figure out by researching  that our soon to be president wasn't a fan of the 2nd amendment.  Restricting gun ownership sure has worked out well in Chicago, hasn't it?

I recently took a 2-day class at a local shooting range that was geared for women.  Thanks to whomever just recommended that website corneredcat.com, it's a great site.

79 But then, there are fewer hunters with every passing year, and the median age is up, up, up.

Posted by: Jinxthecat at April 08, 2012 11:40 AM (2Yduj)

----------------------------

That is because there are almost no places left to hunt. All of the old hunting grounds I used to go to are now bought up and posted.

You are almost forced into joining a "hunting club" who leases hunting "rights" from some logging company that has bought up the land.

80 I have to say that it depends on your local law enforcement and environment.  I live in a small city.  Most folks are decent and law abiding.  Thugs aren't going to get away with anything big.  If the citizenry are prepared to stand behind the local sheriff, we will do just fine.

I sure wouldn't want to live in a big city.  The dirtbag/good citizen ratio is too high.

81 I'm on the verge. Been shooting for years but it's time to get one or four.

82 One the M1 carbine.  Yes the round is weak for a rifle, but if you think of it as a hot pistol round it will take to you better.  In addition, if you load your own rounds and load semi-jacketed hollow points at max loads, the round is not so weak anymore. You just have to experiment to find one that will chamber w/o jamming.  The problem is with the standard ball ammunition, not the round itself.

83 I'll bite, Dagny. The potential goblins living in my immediate vicinity that have already tried to break in once (while unoccupied). No, I have no plans to shoot any government agent, even an IRS auditor, if that is the question. They might Weaver my cat.

84 Book thread up.

85

I am a long time gun owner, have been a dealer in the past, and sold a lot of defense weapons.  I have a current NC carry permit, and previously had one in FL.  Because I have to visit a local school several times a week, I usually am not carrying, now.  I regard not carrying as seriously risky, as most of the places I am not allowed to carry allow criminals to carry.  I agree with a recent bill in Kansas that requires a property owner who doesn't permit lawful concealed carry to have metal detectors, security guards and storage lockers, so that the lawful citizens he is disarming can be nearly as safe as if they were carrying.

I agree with most of what has been said above and in other blogs.  Home defense is best with a 12 ga. tactical shotgun, loaded with large birdshot, not buck.  Carry weapon caliber should start with a 4.  Backup can be 9mm. or .380, nothing less.  Well, maybe a .22 in an ankle holster.  If you are not carrying it and/or it is not loaded, it won't help you.  Left in the bedside table it is a liability.  A kid or crook may get to it first.  Keep it on you or in a locked safe.

Shoot at least once a week to maintain proficiency.  I shoot about 200 rounds a week, using a variety of handguns, and usually at about 30 feet, which covers most home invasion distances.  Rifle practice is at 100 and 200 yards, because a longer range is not currently available to me.  I like the AR, and have two in .223 and one in .308 with a heavy target barrel. 

Professional instruction pays off in speed, safety and accuracy.  Get some! 

 

86

Dagny, as far as why I carry a pistol in my truck, and may soon carry on my person in some situations: I don't worry at home, I live in a pretty safe area. Some folks in my town never lock their doors. But I go a nearby big city fairly often and there seem to be more random crazy shooters about as things continue to deteriorate. There have been incidents of gangs roaming streets and beating/robbing people with basball bats in this city also. Sometimes I'm loading music equipment and standing around in bar parking lots at 2:00 AM with a good bit of cash in my pocket. There are drug-addled people wandering about in some of those areas. Have you ever seen someone in meth-rage?

Situational awareness...I also wear heavy boots when I visit and hike in rattlesnake country. Don't need a gun for them, they leave me alone, given the chance.

 

87 Ammo prices went up in '08 and have stayed there, and that caused a run on reloading supplies. Propellant was out of stock most of '09, but it's fully stocked now. Lead shot is still through the roof - I bought 600 pounds of target load shot (I shoot trap) for $26 / 25 pound bag in '09, and that same bag is closer to $40 now. I'm kicking myself for not buying as many spam cans of 30/06 from the CMP in '06/'07. 192 rounds, in en-block clips, or bulk pack Lake City for $62 a can!

88 32 Some of the rooskie ammo out there is very dirty. ...and smells like cat piss when you shoot it.

89 Answer to Dagny's question - Who I am arming myself to defend against?

The unknown. If I knew where the threat was coming from I would be able to counter the threat without the need for a firearm.  And for any threats I foresee, I do that. For example, I stay out of shitty, crime ridden areas, even when armed. But, there are other threats that might come to me without much way to mitigate.  Home invasion robberies are a great example.  It is rare enough that the likelihood of it happening to me are remote, but it is common enough that being prepared wise, especially when such preparation is congruent with preparing for unknown threats.

90 Kahr PM 9. Brand new, yet to fire a round through it, though that may change today.

91 ALL of the rooskie ammo out there is very dirty. If you're shooting 7.62x54R. Corrosive primers. Clean your rifle and it won't care.

92 Never owned a gun in my life...until a couple of weeks ago.  The disintegration of civil society under Obama's rule is really scary. 

I'm now the owner of a Smith and Wesson 642 revolver.  I haven't bought any ammo for it but I probably will soon.

93 By the way how many of you saw the article on the Department of Homeland Security buying 750 million rounds of ammo? Since Bill Ayers estimated that they will have to kill 25,000,000 million of us when they take over, that works out to 30 bullets for each of us; that would be pretty good shooting for a combat situation - but about what I would expect left wingers to shoot in firing squad circumstances - about one out of 30 bullets hits at point blank range.

I guess we know now who that "civilian defense force - as well funded as well equipped and as well armed as our military" is going to be.

94 Imagine if I didn't standardize?

Posted by: Jimbro at April 08, 2012 11:40 AM (ZAMQe)

A while ago I was looking at buying a used (is there any other kind) Lee Enfield in .303. It was then that I realized I own 6 different 30 caliber rifles and no two of them fire the same ammunition. The Enfield would make it 7 with no matching ammo.

95 I haven't been to the range since last year, and then it was only once, because ammo is so expensive.  I wanted to get a Rock Chucker to play around with, but hubby insisted on a big fancy progressive rig, built a bench for it, then never learned to use it.  I don't want to mess with it...

Anyway, thinking of selling my SW 1911 and getting a tactical shotgun. Everyone needs one of those!  :cool:

96 *I cant help but notice that guns have black barrels and uses black powder.(technically incorrect.. but that wont matter)

*Also police cars have red lights and blue lights.  Red as if its coming for communists and blue as if its coming for the blue states... all while driving a white car! OMG! OMG!

*when guns fire they smell weird and sulfurous just like my lady parts when i don't shower!  WAR ON WIMMIN!

-future tweets of Laurie Penny

97 Dagny: Disaffected Youths are already flash-mobbing convenience stores. Should they seek to try the same tactics in greater numbers (and target residential blocks) as their disaffection grows in the coming economic reckoning, I intend to discourage them from doing so. I've seen enough "acting out" videos to convince me that my failure to plan for this possibility due to PC pressure is reckless and irresponsible. YMMV.

98 My order for a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun has been on back order for a year. Sheeesh

99 Firearms are necessary to keep the population explosion of tasty varmints in check.  If these yummy bastards had thumbs, I'd seriously be a'fearing for my life.

100

Throw in increased popular culture television exposure of firearms and shooting, including everything from “Gold Rush” to “Top Shot” to “Sons of Guns” to “Doomsday Preppers,” ..........

 

First time I've heard that "Gold Rush" was about guns and shooting. I call BS.

101 Look, folks, its not just fear of Obama but a general public certainty that things are about go to horribly wrong. Everyone is holding their breath waiting for the slide off the cliff, like the end of the original Italian Job. And people want to be stocked up and armed for that eventuality. Obama is a symptom of a very messed up America.

102

FWIW, I think that the contention that Holder and the media are trying to create a race war is not true, but I feel more than a little empathy with those who think so, because Holder and the media are doing an excellent imitation ofoing just that!

I hope I am not a Pollyanna, but rather than fomenting a race war, I think the Administration and the media are trying to prove how racist we are as a way to get Obama re-elected.  But they are so steeped in the grievance-mongering ways of community organizing, they a) literally have never needed to learn how to do anything else to advance their position, and b) assume that "everyone knows" <wink><wink> that grievance-mongering is just a way to leverage white guilt to achieve political advantage or hook up with the next gravy-train.

The problem is, their reflexive racial allegiances blind them to the fact that plenty of race-baiters in their community want to take advantage of their ham-handedness to actually foment racial violence.

What we need is an Adminstration that identifies with all Americans.  The one we have is not that one, and we need to vote it out of office.

I think we are in a race against time to keep the media from blowing the lid off until we can remove the protective cover and motivational reinforcement this Administration gives them.  And the many race-baiting vipers in our midst are in the same race against time to get that lid blown off before we can cool the fire.

103 But I'm still trying to get someone to say who they think is going to try to kill them or take their stuff.

Government employees, Fill in job title
here________________.

Posted by: Cast Iron at April 08, 2012 11:51 AM (EL+OC)

I guess it is really annoying to try trolling and have no one bite. OK here is a nibble. Why don't you explain why the Department of Homeland Security needs 750 million rounds of ammo?

Any reasonable explanation accepted.  Come on Axelrod you ought to be able to come up with one; maybe mosquito control?

104 I apologize for the many run-together words in my last comment - I just don't know how to keep this site from doing that!

105 Bein' a stupid, bitter clinger and all - do you mean first time like in first time for that particular gun? If not, mid double digit ownership numbers here in Flyoverville.

106 @34, I know I'm late but my 2 cents: I'm pretty much on my own with illegals on my ranch.  The Border Patrol provides a Sat. phone but they can take over an hour to get to just my front gate. I know that in some cases I'll always be out gunned (Thanks Obama and Eric!) but I have what I can afford and handle. I'll do my best and leave the rest to God.

107

On a lighter note, headline merriment at Drudge:

SCIENTISTS REWRITE RULES ON HUMAN REPRODUCTION

I didn't go to the linked article, I was just amused at the lengths these poor geeks have to go to in order to get laid!

108 M1 Carbines are big boy 22LRs. Great fun to shoot and falsely maligned as being anemic. Accurate at less than 150 yards and with very low recoil a fast 15 rounds of 30 carbine soft points will settle any social matter. The carbine market is crazy since there are no more coming into the country. Good USGI 'shooters' will run $600-700. Check the for sale section on the CMP forum for one you can trust to be as advertised. I should caution you, once you buy your first one it will not be your last. They're addicting.

109 >> do you mean first time like in first time for that particular gun? No, I mean first time for owning any gun.

110 Wait - I think I understand what the 750 million rounds (with 400 million of them being hollow points) to the DHS are for - since we know DHS agents aren't going to be shooting at illegal aliens from the south; they must be for shooting at roving gangs of Canadians breaking into northern homes and businesses and saying "Eh, eh?"

111 I've always had some rifles. Bought my first hand gun shortly after JEF was crowned. Reason: I figured his admin. would make it harder to purchase one.

112

I've noticed Ammo prices for my 12 gauge seem to be creeping up.  Some of that is that I'm just buying more expensive rounds (I sprung for fancy Hornady Sabot Slugs with bonded tips this year for deer season instead of the standard tipless Sabots I ususally buy.)

For my trap ammo though (where I buy for cheap) I've noticed an uptick from about $4.50/box to almost $6.

On gun prices, I only own one gun, it's really all I can afford (and safely store in my apartment, "safely" meaning it doesn't fall on my head when I'm getting stuff out of the closet.)

However, I keep an eye on the used gun prices and I've noticed a dip in entry level guns (.22, or Entry level shotguns like the Remington 870 express.) as people trade up for newer fancier models (or so it seems).  I don't think this is realated to the SCOAMF as much as it's more people getting involved in the hobby (or I just got there at the right time to see extra stock at my Gun shop.)

113 Dagny, here's my answer:

Guns are fun, and are now more socially acceptable, for various reasons. Preference cascade n' stuff. 

114

I loaded up under Clinton on black weapons. AR/SKS/AK 47, all in semi. I've inherited 3 Gens of good field weapons. I have 7 .357's in different lengths, and finally broke down and bought a semi auto .40 Springfield XDM.

My 7 & 11 yo boys, wife and I are all not only very proficient shooters, but also field strippers/loaders. Everyone is very familiar w/the three dozen weapons.

"Ya gotta use what's closest to you, not what you're most familiar with". (Shit Jefferson said about guns, Vol IV)

115

I work at one of the top 10 gun dealers in the country.  I sell a lot of first time guns and a whole lot of 'additional' guns.

Most of the first guns are pistols, generally ones suitable for concealed carry.  After they get the first one they're usually back for more before too long.

Guns are starting to get harder to get already and it's barely April.

116 Sorry, I had a shoe crisis and had to go shopping suddenly.

117 My husband and I are farmers, so we're the upteenth generation to have guns as an ordinary part of life. I am intrigued by all the new gun owners.  I am afraid that many of them cannot truly articulate why they suddenly find gun sports 'fun', or want a handgun in their house.  I sense an all-pervasive, unconscious fear, or at least uncertainty, taking over my country, and that is as complete an indictment of a president as I can imagine (and I've lived through quite a few of them by now).  The man's job is to be 'father' to all of us (in a very abstract sense).  He is to foster a feeling of security, safety, and unity in his 'family' regardless of what he thinks of their personal beliefs - exactly like a good father. Instead, we are as dysfunctional as we could possibly be.  Some of us are suffering abuse that goes unnoticed. Others are lectured endlessly on how wrong and disappointing we are to dear old dad. Others are told we are picking on our less fortunate siblings. And on and on.

People are reacting to this.  If you say (as I have) "Do you fear an economic collapse?" they may scoff, but then 10 minutes later they look at their watch and say they have to leave for the range. It's unconscious, but all the more telling for that.

118

Dagny, my take on "Why the Fear?" I am not so sure its fear, but good ole' American common sense. I think people realize:

 

First, the weakening financial posture of local governments will lead to a reduction in law enforcement resources.

 

Second, there is an increasing probability of some civil disturbance whether it be natural disaster, terrorist attack or mob scene. Law enforcement will be unable to cope with it in the short term. Some would say that the current Administration is in favor of such chaos and does whatever it can to encourage it.

 

Third, given One and Two, you will likely be on your own when possibly facing desparate people, thugs or criminals. Think Korean convenience store owners.

 

Fourth, if One, Two and Three, state and local governments will use emergency/civil defense laws to halt sales of guns and ammunition. If you wait, it will be too late.

 

Fifth, I think more people than we think have an inkling of the Fast and Furious.

 

Sixth, I think people are getting fed up with this bullshit.

 

Anyway, Happy Easter everybody.

 

119
Re#71 - Jimbo
"We will just have to figure out how to pay them, since U.S. dollars will be worthless."

We pay them pretty much the same way they're being paid everywhere else in world: by giving them the right to take what they want

Sad but that's the way it is

120 .45 are way more expensive than they used to be, I'm spending a fortune

121 Our youth shooting sports teams in Texas are seeing massive growth in all disciplines....

122 I, personally, don't own any weapons. Sold 'em. Therefore I'm not leaving a detailed litany of my firearms on Ace's site. 

123

I, personally, don't own any weapons. Sold 'em. Therefore I'm not leaving a detailed litany of my firearms on Ace's site.

 

Ve haff vays...

124

My girlfriend and I have weapons to defend ourselves against thugs in hoodies.

  A few years ago we witnessed a mexican drug cartel assassination about 90 feet from my front door. We live at the end of a dirt road and I guess they thought it was a good place to dump a body. They kidnapped a man from the mall about a mile away, drove down my street, and executed him. We heard the shots and went outside to see a body on the ground and the suspects mad dogging my girlfriend and I as they drove away. I tried to save the victim with cpr but only kept him alive until paramedics arrived. Apparently his wife had just given birth to their child.

So, we testify in court. Put them away and your gonna love this...My girlfriend tries to get a ccw permit and they say that she doesn't have a valid reason!! WTF.

When this happened we had no firearms in the house. If that carload of gangsters had decided to stop and off us both we would have had no way to defend ourselves. As God is my witness if they or any of their friends ever come down this road again and attempt a drive-by  it will sound like WWIII.

So, That's who I am trying to defend myself from.

P.S. a police officer carries a gun to defend himself not me or you......

125 Re gun advice: The .22 round is too flaky for self-defense. If the box is opened, the .22 will absorb heat and moisture to a degree that other rounds will not, and they will misfire like crazy. I took my .22 to the range and after six months hot southern climate, all rounds misfired. Concealed carry: the .380. The cartridge has respectable stopping power and you can get a pistol that's really tiny.

126 The thing about this story that stood out for me is the part about an industry that is booming but reluctant to hire due in part to Obamacare.  Doesn't bode well for recovery summer 3.

127 late, but...   I've got a Garand and a M-1 Carbine from CMP and they are both a lot of fun to shoot.  The Carbine is from 1943 and the Garand from '54.  I bought a couple of Enfields a year ago , one short SMLE and an Ishapore and they're both fun to shoot.  I love the history.. 

128 By co-inky-dink I was out shooting yesterday at Fort Dix with the kids.  I supplied most of the guns and ammo and the kids payed the range fees.

Lets see, we had 4 pistols - a Smith .40, Kimber .45, Colt .357, and a Smith .38.  We had 4 rifles - my custom AR, an International 1022, a .357 Marlin 1894sc, and a cute little .222 Remington boltie tackdriver.

Spent $100 for 4 boxes of pistol ammo and brought another 4 from my stash.  Used bulk Lakeland for the AR. 

Per above, my home guns are the Colt and a Mossy 12 pump.  Guys on either side of us were shooting full sized battle rifles...98 Mausers and a Dragunov.  Loud.  I left my SMLE at home this time, but it would have fit right in.

129 Nice.  I'd like to get a .357 lever-gun in my collection.  I have too much already, but there is always the desire for more! Damn!

130

Far from an expert, just an opionanted a$$hole moron.  The first gun I ever purchased  was a Mossberg 500 for home defense.  I still sleep with this under the bed.  Holds 10 rounds.  For home defense, a shotgun makes the most sense if you need to confront unwelcomed guests at night.   

For handguns, if it doesn't start with at least a ".4" it's not worth owning.  Trappers use .22 cal handguns to finish off small game.  That's an appropriate use.  Not many Federal LEOs carrying .38s any longer either - for a reason.  As for 9mm, just not enough takedown for my tastes.

If you ever need to use it, its likely that you will only get one shot off.  Make it count, make it hurt, and make it a hole you can see through.  A .45 will end it before it gets out of hand.  That's probably the reason you wanted a handgun in the first place.  Don't lose sight of your objective for owning a handgun.  It's not for scaring bad guys, or for prolonged confrontations like you see on TV - it's for saving your life or that of your loved ones. 

Don't let your inner f'in, pansy-ass, Nancy-girl, alter-vagina conscience tell you it's too heavy, too big, etc.  A .40 cal is the minimum you want to own, and the minimum you want to carry.

 

 

131 Just bought the missus a sweet little S&W .38 sp with a laser grip.  We did the concealed carry class together.  Our Sherrif just said in the newspaper that they have had a surge in permit apps that they have never seen before.  Our County, Shasta, is fairly liberal about issuing permits compared to the rest of California.  The local gun shop can't keep inventory because it is selling so fast.

132

My group of widowed and divorced 50 something women have all taken the plunge this year and bought our first guns.  S&W Bodyguards and Ruger LS 9MM's seemed to be the preferred for concealed carry.  Myself, a Glock 19, for that sense of confidence that I can defend myself just fine.   Why?  Because home invasions have increased and feeling like a victim waiting to happen isn't in the DNA of any of us.  We are a diverse group and enjoy getting together for an afternoon at the range.  We are waiting for a group of like minded men who are intrigued by "Guns & Women"

133 I strongly suggest any new buyers stick to the more common calibers ( 9mm-.223 etc) so when the shooting starts if they run out of ammo your next magazine full might come from a fallen compatriot near you...AR15's 9mm semiauto pistols etc etc

134 Damn, supposed to be Guns and Women.  Thought I would mention a lesson from one instructor.  When asked about center mass take downs and that a single shot won't necessary put the attacker down, he encouraged us to shoot until whatever you are shooting at, in life or death situation, changes shape or catches fire.

135

I'll play too.

 

First, to answer to Dagny's question: "Who I am arming myself to defend against?"

 

The general decline of civilized behavior and the rule of law. I think the US is very far from fragmenting and/or collapsing, but I also see (on the local news, in some of the previous comments) an increase in violence; real serious beatings and murders. In a very real sense, self-defence, as a condition of everyday survival and existance, is becoming increasingly necessary. I don't see the need to be a victim.

 

As a side note, I know someone who lives in an upper-class suburb and was jacked-up about a year ago, in his own driveway. It seems a "yoot" rolled up in his shiny chariot, pulled out a 9 with laser, demanded the guy's wallet (tossed over to they yoot) that to go inside. The guy refused, all the while noting the laser dot on his chest. Eventually, the guy convinced the yoot that a neighbor was calling the police ... This seems to have worked, as the guy is still alive and unhurt. He did call the police ... there's a report, that's all.

 

He did mention that he had heard reports of this sort of incident ... but they were always closer to the city, "not out here". He said he'll talk to the neighbors, try to get some sort of neighborhood watch going, maybe get an alarm system and perhaps some high-res cameras ... but he won't get a gun. He also has a wife and a "tweenage" daughter ... and yes, he voted for the JEF.

 

But I think he has a real serious (subconscious) problem with being jacked-up, and will eventually realize: yes, a gun would NOT have helped him in his driveway ... but if there were 2 or more yoots, and he had been forced into his house, just about ANY gun would have helped ... a lot. I think I convinced him to get a few cans of pepper spray. Will they come back? A gun, and a cell phone and a can of pepper spray for his tweenage dughter, might just avert an ugly tragedy.

 

 

Next, firearms.

 

A .22 is a poor choice, but it is better than nothing. If it's all you have, then you need lots of ammunition and magazines.

 

There's a lot to be said for just a few guns. A shotgun, 2 pistols and a rifle are much easier to move and conceal than a collection. I'm not a proponent of "bugging-out", but if you have to ... or if you live in a place where burglaries occur, hiding/moving a collection is tougher.

 

There's a lot to be said for popular calibers. .38Special isn't the best choice, but it is likely available everywhere. If it isn't available, what caliber is? This is also likely true for .45ACP, .357Mag, .44Mag, .40 and/or.357Sig (whatever your local police use) and maybe a few others. Check your local gunshops, then sporting goods stores, then WalMart. What are your results? They may differ from mine.

 

Note that shotguns MUST BE AIMED. The pattern at 10 yards, might cover a 10" dinner plate. This includes strays. Plan on something more like 6". Also, USE A STOCK. 2 pistol grips might look cool, tough, dangerous, but control is much less than with a stock. When using a pump shotgun, always rack all the way back (concentrate) and then all the way forward (concentrate, both better fast than slow), and keep your "pump" elbow pointed down, as straight down as possible. This helps to minimize jams and misfeeds.

 

#85 Buck Ofama, posts excellent advice. But I've read various reports on buckshot (good stopping power, but it keeps going) vs. birdshot (might not stop, and will still go through a couple of walls) ... there are some serious opinion differences. Perhaps a turkey or goose load. Perhaps some of each. This means that carrying ammo becomes an issue. In any event: Professional firearms training ... get it.

 

Spare magazines (speed loaders for revolvers) are critical. Get at least 4 good-quality magazines (or speed loaders) per weapon. No matter what the magazine capacity of your automatic is, once the magazine is empty, you have a problem. It is possible to reload revolvers quickly by hand, but it takes practice and calm nerves. Reloading a magazine is slower, so 2 is an absolute minimum. Is it possible to load single rounds into the barrel of an automatic? I'll watch a YouTube video on the subject; I'd rather not have the experience.

 

A BDU shirt, from your local surplus store, next size up, might work well. They have 4 deep pockets. Tan or khaki is a good choice, as any camo pattern is not in your favor if you get hauled to court.

 

Support equipment is important. Stripping, cleaning and lubricating keeps a reliable weapon reliable. Failure to do these things is a bad choice.

136

Yeah, most new shooters should stick to 9mm or .38 because the ammo to practice is cheap and recoil is not bad.  Good range of options in those calibers. 

Practice and familiarity are the biggest issues with firearms.  Then there is the 90% of it is mental part.  Decisions made in an instant with ramifications for life.  Have to do the mental work along with being physically prepared. 

And a .22 will kill someone just a dead as a .45.  No pistol round , short of a head shot, will stop an attacker coming at you... and head shots are for video games mostly and problamatic in real life in your defense in court.

The main is, have what it takes to extracate yourself from the threatening situation and get away.  ANY weapon is better than the one left at home.  Ultimately avoidance of bad situations is the key.  Home defense is obvioulsy difference because the trouble comes to you.... 

137 Student at university, I grew u in a gun friendly household. Scraped u enough money to get a Ruger 10/22 and a Ruger Mark 2. Boy Scouts taught me some basic skills, and it's also a very enjoyable time to take dates shooting. I've got my priorities.

138 ..."a gentleman always hits what he is shooting at."

139 Not sure why people knock wheel guns for CCW. In an andrenalin situation pulling the trigger on a double-action Airweight with hollow point +P is much better than fumbling with thumb safeties on a cocked and locked auto, for those who don't shoot a lot. A lot of factors come into play, of course, but I wouldn't dismiss a .38 DA revolver for some people as opposed to a .380.  

140 140.... agreed.  I like wheel guns alot.  point and shoot..  I have several.  My favorite is .45LC Vaquero.  No, no CCW practical, but if you ever get the chance to shoot one, you'll love it... at least I did.  I had to go out and buy more than one!

141 How much has attitude towards gun ownership changed?   The last time a new member joined the finance committee of my Church and we were discussing how to get to known him better, it was suggested we all go to the local gun range.  Every committee member is a gun owner, including our priest.   We all are or were corporate types-Lawyers, CPAs, and financial advisers and we are all firm believers in the Second Amendment.  That wouldn't have been the case twenty years ago. 

It's also interesting that the very liberal cause of local organic food  seems to have helped fuel  a renewed interest in hunting.   Both Tony Bourdain and Andrew Zimmern are often seen in woods or sitting in duck blind harvesting the game they later help cook. 

142

@140 I agree, safeties suck.   Glocks rock.

 

Never a doubt or hiccup in deployment.

143

I have 5 people in my family that not only bought a hand gun in the last 2 years but also got licenses to carry.

 

All but one are brand spanking new gun owners.

144 143 I'll agree with your Glock statement. I like Glocks. I'll never own one. For the same reason I like Kirstie Alley but I'd never pork her. Some things you like, but they are so aesthetically displeasing you won't truck with them. For me that's Glocks, and Kirstie.

145

Just bought one yesterday. Glock 17. I had one years ago, but when my son was born I sold it. Now I am back in the gun owner fold. Well, I will be in 10 days when the state of Washington has deemed that enough time has passed for me to pick it up.

146 I sold my guns this year and now carry pepper spray, a locking blade pocketknife, and a cellphone. I'm just not carrying a gun when jogging or bicycling, and pepper spray seems to take care of the two-legged and four-legged beasts I've run into these years.

147 And the gun shop was packed. To the gills. In the last week alone there was a violent home invasion where the homeowner shot and killed the methed up guy who threw a propane tank through the sliding glass door. Then there was the retired police officer who shot a burglar in his house. Then there was the homeowner who chased 4 people out of his house with a shotgun. Then there was the woman who chased 2 men out of her house with a handgun. And those were just the incidents with guns. 2 homes robbed, at one the mom and her 9 year old came home to find the guys fleeing with bags full of stuff. Actually beyond that I've kind of lost count.

148 When I was 19 years old Lester Maddox gave me a 22-inch miniature pick-axe handle at his restaurant in Underground Atlanta, because he was a friend of my dad's in the Georgia General Assembly back in the day. Over the years it has resolved 95% of any confrontations. Walked away from the other 5%.

149 Someone above may have already said it but, if it begins to look like Obama will win again, the boost in firearm sales this year will make that prior to his election look like a blip on the radar.

150 I am a Chemistry faculty member at a smallish southwestern university. While my department is a bit more conservative than the rest of the university, three years ago only two of eight faculty owned firearms. Since 2009 I have personally helped three of my colleagues to obtain their CCL's and purchase handguns. Two were previous owners of long guns and occasional hunters. The third, a woman, was a complete newby to firearms ownership. Right now they probably own a total of 10 firearms of all types between them. All have told me that their initial impetus for obtaining a CCL and purchasing a handgun was the possibility of gun bans under the Obama administration.

151 I sold my guns this year and now carry pepper spray, a locking blade pocketknife, and a cellphone. I'm just not carrying a gun when jogging or bicycling, and pepper spray seems to take care of the two-legged and four-legged beasts I've run into these years.

****

For your sake, I hope you aren't in danger on a windy day.

152 Sold all my guns, too. I now disarm BATF and DHS agents with my blog-fu. And quick lime.

153 Happy Birthday Vman!

154

I think Glocks and Ruger or S&W revolvers are the best handguns. My favorite long guns are, strangely enough, single shot NEF shotguns. Everyone should own one. They are a little over a hundred dollars, simple, last forever and can be reloaded and fired much quicker than you'd think.

155

And in answer to the question above about what I am defending against: sea monsters. They are out there. Waiting.

156 Question: I have not had a gun since my house was robed in 88. After OÂ’s election I thought to rearm. I was in Seattle at the time and got a XD-45. Three months later I went to get a Mini 14 and the background check came back denied. After a 3 month thee letter exchange they told me a 79 MJ bust in AZ disqualified me. When I wrote back and said it was a misdemeanor that at the time in AZ and WA, and still are. They came back with WA does not have to recognize a p.. bargain from AZ? Sounds like a violation of the 14 Amendment not to mention the 2nd. Lawyering up cost to much. Anyone have an answer for this abuse of the Brady law?

157 There are cheap Chicom 870 knockoff's out there as well (Sold by Remington as the NEF Pardner Pump) I found one in a tactical configuration with ghost ring sights new for $225. Other than that, .45 is a great caliber (Expensive), .40 fits between .45 and 9mm and seems (to me) that for all that I'd carry a .45. But my everyday carry remains a 9mm (Glock19, P7, or P225) they always work, ammo is cheap and they are accurate.

158 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

159 Thanks Sad Dad for the NEF idea... those combos they have look good..  I'll have to check them out.   Do I need them?  No..  just another to add to the want.  Also, want to add some nice copies of old flintlocks to my collection

160 Have both a .38 special off duty as well as a 3" 1911 in .45.   No love of the .38s from me. I carried it more than my .45 as it was smaller but never really liked it.  Love to shoot the .45 and feel its the best all around weapon short of a long gun for home defense just bulky for CC.

 Just bought a few weeks ago the Taurus TCP .380.  Love it for a carry gun.  Its a B series so not feed issues. A series (last serial number digit) was said to have feed and quality issues.      6+1 with no safety and its tiny and more accurate than the .38 special.  Love the trigger pull.   Carry it in the BullDog Holster and it looks like I just have a smart phone.  I can tuck in my shirt now.

Have 2 safes in the house.  One big one for my long guns and one smaller firesafe for the pistols and papers.  Lag bolted from the inside to the floor and wall, they are not moving short of demolishing the entire house.

Wife has a Walther P22 she shoots.  .22 can be devastating if you are a good shot.  She can cycle that gun almost as fast as she can pull the trigger and shoot tighter groups than I can taking my time.   No kick does that.  Love that gun.

161 Hey Steevy!  You're right!

162

157  jrcobbstr at April 08, 2012 05:43 PM (zx5bL)

 

Were you a minor in 1979? It might make a small difference. And you say it was a misdemeanor, from well before the Brady law existed. Perhaps Washington cannot reach that far back and/or reach over to other states. Talk to the ACLU or some other pro-gun-rights lawyer.

163 1st Question in a series: Who are you protecting yourselves against? I am protecting myself and mine from those who would hurt me or mine. Imagine a continuum starting from the worst: 1. Cold-blooded killer who kills for the hell of it (power) 2. Killer who kills for money 3. Thief who would kill if needed 4. Thief who wouldn't kill but would use the threat as a tool 5. Thief who would never hurt anyone 6. Somebody who would not could not steal 7. Somebody who doesn't even believe in finders-keepers Rhetorical question: Where do you place yourself on this scale? Unless you place yourself at the top, there are people who are cool with doing stuff you would have a problem doing. If you cannot picture yourself doing anything worse on this scale than where you placed yourself, then how can you be certain that there is any kind of real distinction between the groups worse than the group you chose? You cannot be. Since I don't even believe in finders-keepers, I cannot be certain that there is any moral difference whatsoever across killers and thieves. My safest bet is to assume that those assholes in Tulsa are morally the same as a mugger who would stick a gun in my face for my wallet. That mugger is morally the same as the slickie boy who would steal my watch from a locker. That slickie boy is the same as a voter who pulls the lever for a "D" candidate to tax me to pay for shit he wants. I understand fully that the law makes distinctions, but the distinctions are nothing more than word games that somebody pulled out of his ass. I'll pretend to respect them because doing so is the price for civil order, but the day that civil order evaporates, I'm going to drop those shackles and vigorously defend myself from all of the enemies in the groups above the one where I placed myself. And another thing: I'm not the one trying to disrupt civil order.

164 163 thanks Arbalest. I was in college and out of the Navy at 23. Am back in AZ now and we are the most progressive you know. In Las Vegas you can get nearly anything out of a bar. SKS;s are cheep and have all kinds of accessories to make them look scary n stuff.

165 I still have yet to buy my first piece. this is what I am looking to get: Safe 22 semi 45 semi 38 revolver Pump shotgun One of those reissue M1 carbines. Ideas? ------ 22 semi Good choice, cheap to shoot because the ammo is inexpensive. Three basic choices: full size, mouse gun, or "Saturday night special". Full size, full price are guns: Like the Ruger Mark III and the Browning Buckmark. Bersa, S&W, Walther and others make handguns in this category of comparable quality. Mouse gun: Small, pocket pistols, Less expensive than the full size .22's. The Taurus PT22 and Beretta Bobcat fit his market. The Taurus is less expensive than the Beretta. These guns can also be valubable to someone with weaks hands, as they use a tip up barrel design; you don't need to rack the slide to chamber the first round. Fits in your pocket too. Saturday night specials: Inexpensive, medium to full size and inexpensive. Models from Phoenix Arms and Jennings Firearms are safe and reliable. A good choice if you prefer to put more of your money into your higher caliber handguns, or long guns, but want to have a gun you can shoot cheaply. 45 semi 38 revolver If you're going to get one of each, I'd recommend a full size 45 and a 2" snub nose 38. The 38 should be rated for +P ammo. If this is a home defense weapon, ditch both and get a 357 magnum revolver. It shoots the 38, 38 +P, and the 357 round. Revolvers are simpler, and a bit more reliable, important when the SHTF. Pump shotgun Mossberg or Remington in 12 or 20 gauge. Caveat is used in close combat, your opponet has a good chance of taking this away from you, because of the barrel length. Where that isn't an issue, this is your first choice. Almost guarunteed one shot stop, better than any handgun. One of those reissue M1 carbines. Nice for the range, but for at home use, for defense ? No way. Go with the shotgun. Military weapons are not designed for personal defense. Ideas? Yes, get these: 22 semi, of your choice. 357 Magnum revolver. 12 or 20 gauge shotgun.

166 Our County, Shasta, is fairly liberal about issuing permits compared to the rest of California. The local gun shop can't keep inventory because it is selling so fast.

Posted by: JB at April 08, 2012 03:22 PM (JjuLj)

 

Ahhhh yessss!  Beautiful Shasta County!  What town?  I grew up in Anderson.

167 My first handgun was a cap & ball Navy .36 revolver that my dad gave me when I was 7. I don't know why he decided that was a good idea but hey, I'm still here, intact.

My second handgun was a S&W .40 Sigma that I bought at a gun show in Feb. 2009.

The reason I bought it is that a few weeks earlier, as I gazed out upon the raging beer bash going down in the pool area of my apartment complex at 1 am, I saw some stupid hippies building a bonfire UNDER a line of trees that run past my windows.

I told them to stop and, yada, yada, yada I had a raging mob throwing tree limbs, patio furniture, beer bottles, etc. at me as I flipped them off and threw the bottles back at them (I'm on the 3rd floor). Then the cops showed up and they scattered.

A few of them actually took on the cops and went to jail. There were numerous evictions. Somehow their seemingly infinite stupidity became my fault and threats were made to me. I'm 6 ft-220#, people don't normally treat me that way.

And all I had was my b&c revolver and a machete.

Even today, if I go out on my balcony at 3-4-5 am to announce the imminent arrival of the cops, someone always yells back "Remember the bonfire!" and I do.

168

Long guns: Browning Stainless Stalker in 7mm Rem. mag, Remington Model 742 semi auto in 30.06, Ruger Mini 14 .223 (I reload for all of the above).  The Browning will shoot 1/2" groups if I do my job.

 

Shotguns: Berreta Extreme 3.5 12 gauge and an old Stevens single shot .410

 

Handguns: Model 29 S&W 44mag 8-3/8" barrel (kicking bastard but very accurate) and an old Ranger .22 revolver. I've owned the S&W for only 2 years and haven't bought dies to relaod it yet but plan on doing so soon.

 

169  What am I defending against? Well, for a couple of decades I was defending against the assholes I locked up, some of them held grudges. Now that most of those are either dead, serving life or too old to be a worry, I'm now simply an old man, with an equally old wife, the favorite prey of the new generations of assholes.

 I don't get to town much but I've read of the swarms of punks playing the "knockout game". I am morally convinced that sooner or later those punks will try it on some old gramps with a little something extra tucked into his hirise pants and either he or granny will empty a gun. Our loving friends in the minority community will go up in arms about more innocent, unarmed black children gunned down by the evil whites and the fight will be on,

  Now I'm not much to be telling anyone their business  but I have some suggestions for the first time gun buyers that go against what is usually said. The very first new gun should be a four inch barreled six shot .38 Special or .357 Mag.  We do not know if our new gun owner will decide if (s)he likes shooting or if practice and care will become an unpleasant chore. Revolvers are safer for a beginner and stand up to neglect far better than autoloaders. Autoloaders, conversely, stand up to abuse better than revolvers but there ain't many of us morons going to be storming Iwo Jima and if ever we do our kindly Uncle Samuel will give us all the shootin' irons we can carry.

 Many folks say get a shotgun first but ever try to carry a shotgun concealed? Might as well carry a cop in a holster.

 Speaking of shotguns, I am really against putting a light on one.  The bad guys can see the light from further away than you can see them with the light. And furthermore, chances are the local police are on their way to your trouble. I know we are usually late but that's because hardly anyone calls and says something like "bad guys are gonna break into my home at 312 PM tomorrow." Damn those crooks for not making appointments! But here is the deal, there our poor homeowner is forted up with the shotgun light on and the law shows up and poor homeowner shines the light on the forces of law and order. Now pardon me for bein' a pore dumb redneck but back when I was paid to do stupid stuff like going after society's dregs, I saw a gun pointed at me I'd pull the trigger.

170 What am I defending myself from? What do you got, said in my best impression of brando Once I used my remington 870 to convince a home invader to run not walk from my home. A second time in a grocery store parking lot I sent an armed robber packin when I got the drop on him first with my glock. That's what I'm defending me and mine against.

171 Bought my first two a week ago during Larry's Ruger sale. He said they sold over 5000 pistols that week. They had like 30 people writing sales orders. Ruger CEO was onsite. Got a SR40 and LCP380 with laser and 200rnds each for about $700 total. Applied for CCW. Got heritage permit. Free range about 3miles away. Wife has to wait 2 months before firing hers - bun in oven.

172 You have to be a good ambassador for responsible firearm ownership to the people around you. I really enjoy helping the people in my life including the kids that work for me when they have a question about ccw or firearms in general. It is very rewarding to give them the resources to make the best decision for themselves without making the decision for them. It in turn makes them a good ambassador for ccw & gun ownership and builds the culture in a positive fashion.

173 My theory is that you can never have too many guns. If you don't want to own more, then the next time you go to a gun show, bring one with you to trade/sell and get a different one. that way you will always have something new but never grow your collection.

Ammo: I mainly shoot 9mm and 45acp at the range and shoot Tula since it is cheapest. 50 9mm is 9.87 at walmart, 50 45acp is 14.97 at walmart.

Bulkammo.com has some really, really good specials. I like to get a spam can of 7.62 when it is on sale. ......so now I have 6000 rounds sitting in my basement.

174 167 @ammo dump....we are in Redding....God's country.  In fact, our CCW instructor told us God wants his children to have guns!

175

Kathy Shaidle at Five Feet of Fury posted this...To celebrate the recent dissolution of the long gun registry wefre offering an incredible deal, but itfs only on until next Friday: Buy 5 cases of already amazingly priced Norinco non-corrosive .45ACP and get a free 12.5 Grizzly Shotgun with bead sight or a Norinco 9mm NP29 pistol Thatfs 5000 rounds of .45ACP and a free shotgun or 9mm pistol AND free shipping. Unbelievable! But hurry, supplies are limited.

'Cept I already have a Remington 870 Marine Magnum and don't need another 12  gauge.

176 #170 Peter at April 08, 2012 07:56 PM: first off - thank you for your service. LEOs got it tough and don't get nearly the love they deserve. Hoewever...."Revolvers are safer for a beginner and stand up to neglect far better than autoloaders"? really? Glock, Colt, Sig, Beretta; there's a reason these are the guns chosen for our armed forces and LEOs. I'd question the premise of your statement, and if someone's gonna "neglect" a tool that may save their life, they got other issues - it ain't the gun's fault. Secondly: shotguns and tac lights. it ain't a flashlight - light on, confirm target, fire, confirm target down, light off. takes a hell of a lot less time to do than to type that. If the law shows up at my house and comes up with no lights/identification... that's a recipe for trouble. And it won't be because I had a flashlight on, either.

177 In my neck of the woods there is a mood of impending bad times, that it is all but inevitable. I listened to a fellow at work talking about how it is going to come down to a fight by arms, how the only remedy he could see was to throw off our tormentors by armed revolution. He pointed out how can us ordinary people go up against the political machine, with all its influence money and peddling, the corruption that is so entrenched, the petty power, a case of dynamite couldn't begin to loosen it. There was 17 guys standing around listening intently and adding their agreement. No one I could tell disagreed with this fellows assessment. One dude added the caveat that it was not what had to be done, but when was it time to shoot the politicians? If that wasn't the statement of the moment. No one seemed the least flummoxed or put off by the comment. If anything, it was an amazing display of solidarity. This is from guys who you never hear a curse word, who hold family and friends in the highest regards. Not angels, but good men who obey the law, attend church, will do anything without hesitation to help each other, who work hard as anybody. Men I look up to and respect.
Good company let me tell you. It is not the first I have heard these viewpoints expressed in my community.
In that moment it was so clear, these are the American's who the anointed one and all his ilk are terrified of.

178 Why are first-timers buying firearms?

- Uncertain future. Who knows what a 2nd term will bring in terms of restrictions. It's better to have a firearm now than regretting not having one in the future. A basic human reaction for protection and survival.

- General fear. Calls for civil unrest from just about every "progressive" group amps up the anxiety meter. Then there is the random violent events happening everywhere adding to the anxiety.

- Increased acceptability of firearms. Mix the "gun" cable shows with an environment where friends, neighbors and co-workers now discuss firearms, purchase firearms, and even obtain CCW permits, you have an environment where non-owners are at least contemplating a purchase.

- Fun factor. I can't tell you the number of reports I've heard about hesistant first-timers going to the range and discovering how much fun they can have shooting.

There's more but that's my start.

 

179 http://bit.ly/9GPpYI Who need a hoody wen ya got yo nine?!?

180 I submit that the 2nd Amendment among Our Sacred Rights is not about hunting, and only secondarily about self-defense (you have a cudgel, don't you?), but mainly about tyranny. Look where it is in the order of the Bill of Rights.

181 Read the armed citizen in the American rifleman every month. All the reason you'll ever need to own a gun.

182 "Buy your ammo wholesale by the case load-1000rounds-and save. mil-surp ammo works just fine, check for corrosive. Many of the wholesale ammo distributors are out of stock'back order on the popular calibers:.308, .223, and 7.62x39. Ruger is 6 months behind on production. Buy a lot, shoot a lot. Ya gotta keep yer hand in... Posted by: yakima canutt at April 08, 2012 11:11 AM (ruRkZ)" I own a Yugo Tokarev M57 and burn up a lot of Soviet milsurp 7.62 x 25, all corrosive and Berdan primed. Nothing wrong with corrosive ammo as long as you clean the pistol promptly after shooting. Spray Windex down the barrel. The ammonia in window cleaner neutralizes the phosphate salts in the primers that cause corrosion. Then clean as usual with Hoppes or whatever. Some people act as if the corrosion caused by this ammo happens like the most powerful acid used in Hollywood horror movies. I guess I'm on a commie gun kick since I own a Makarov and Tokarev, with both costing about $200, plus a little additional work polishing and stoning the action, and I've fired hundreds of rounds fired through each without a single malfunction. The Warsaw Pact countries may not have been able to build a car or a washing machine but their weapons are top of the line. My Bulgarian Makarov (with East German parts and springs I dropped in) is, hands-down, the most accurate and reliable semiautomatic pistol I've ever owned. I love that little gun.

183 I love Walther and have a p99 .40.

Watch out for the p22!  They are outsource made and have a dangerous common flaw.  My nephew nearly lost an eye because the (if I recall his story) the slide blew off while firing.  Google it, apparently its a pretty wide problem you can ship it in to get fixed.

184

I have been shooting for two decades, Mostly Military Pattern stuff. Accurate, cheap to shoot, and built like tanks.

Don't shootnearly as much now, just basic skill maintence with my carry weapon.

Shot everything from crap to top end, and I would probably pick a glock 19, Colt gov carbine A2, and a mossberg special purpose pump 12 ga. as my go to weapons.

 

 

 

" hands-down, the most accurate and reliable semiautomatic pistol I've ever owned. I love that little gun."

I bet. So do the SPETNAZ.

 

 

185 In 05 I started feeling the fabric coming apart.  I was never anti-gun and lived in some dangerous cities but none I ever imagined carrying in, did not realize non LEO could legally carry anywhere.  got my bro-inlaw who is into guns to pick me out a handgun for the nightstand.

When I was young I had a 12ga single shot New England I bought with paper route money for 70$ at walmart.  I did some hunting but never became a super gun fan.  I have essentially stopped hunting, no need (currently), expense, trouble, appreciation for living nature.  Through college I did shoot a few thousand rounds at clay pigeons since we had some handy BLM land right up the road.  Started at hitting like 2-10 a year later I was always hitting like 9-10.  Got so fast at reloading that break open single I could get 2 at the same time.

9mm springfield subcompact (with night sights) for carry
.22lr Ruger 10/22 with custom stock/release/ etc..

I'm gonna trade my .40 cal in for a 9mm at some point to standardize my ammo.  One time I was cleaning and swapping clips and had accidentally put a 9mm in a .40 clip.  Scared me, anyway so that's the next project.   I would love to get a nice proper rifle but I am a weak shot anyway and for now I couldn't afford the practice to get it good enough.

Enjoyed reading all your thoughts.  We really should talk more about this, so regular people get acclimated to what was previously accepted as the sole domain as law enforcement, rednecks, and fringers.

If your in a gun shop, lots of progs and dems buying guns now (wouldnt you if you thought you shared a country with the taliban? Thats how many of them now see us.)  So it might feel good to shoot your mouth off big, but be smart,  they cant tell boasting and rambling from planned threats.

186 I started getting into guns as an adult back in mid-2010.  At that time ammo prices were coming down off their Obama-election-highs, but were still quite up there ($6.50 for a box of 5.56/.223)

Since then they had continued to fall (to about $5.50 for a box of .223), but that bottomed out about 6 months ago, in part due to rising metal prices, a weakening dollar, and now we're starting to ramp up again as people buy in fear of Obama's re-election.  We're now back up to $6.50 for a box of .223, and that's just when you buy bulk of 1,000 rounds or more.  Buying a single box will run you $7.50 - $8.00.

For those advocating using birdshot in a home defense shotgun... just No.
Buckshot is for large mammals; birdshot is for birds.
Here is a story from about 2 years back of a man breaking into someone's house; he was shot FOUR times with birdshot, and the police just hauled him away in cuffs while he spouted complaints.
(don't know how the site treats posts containing web addresses, so just google "Mecosta County homeowner fires several shots at intruder, causing multiple injuries.")

Buckshot will penetrate through 5 or more walls (double-sided drywall), though, so be aware of that.

187 @103.  I'll give it a try.

While it sounds like a huge number (I have read anywhere from 400-750 million), I don't think its out of the normal realm for a 5 year contract.

DHS consists of US Secret Service, Customs and Border Protection, ICE, US Coast Guard, Border Patrol, Federal Air Marshals, Federal Protective Service, as well as various OIGs. 

Secret Service and ICE alone are probably near 10000 agents.  Those agents qualify quarterly, shooting at least 5 courses of fire (250-300 rds depending on agency qual courses).  For the sake of this debate, lets say 250 rds per agent, per quarter. That is 10 million rounds per year (250x10000x4), or 50 million over the course of the contract.  Secret Service probably shoots more than that if they are on PPD.

I don't know what the total number of armed agents is in DHS.  CBP and Border Patrol alone have almost 50,000 armed officers.  That would account for 50 million rds per year (or 250 million over the 5 year contract life) using the 250 rds per quarter number.

I'll bet if I went agency by agency, it would account for a huge chunk of that ammo.  and that doesn't the amount being carried in weapons and magazines on duty, which is probably another couple of million.

Numbers don't lie.  Unfortunately, its easier to fashion a tinfoil hat than to pick up a calculator.

188 I'm in the process of getting an AR15 for the best reason ever: because I can! It's going to be sweet! You can get one starting @ $650, and then the sky's the limit after that. Lots of parts are sold out. There seems to be a really high demand right now....

189 Oh, and the place where I'm getting most of my AR parts is selling a tshirt that says "Thanks Obama! The gun business is doing great!" featuring a spliff wielding incompetent-in-chief

190 I sold my guns this year and now carry pepper spray... For your sake, I hope you aren't in danger on a windy day. Yeah, it's a chance I take but carrying a concealed firearm in a manner where it can be withdrawn in 1 second, yet remain concealed in the hot Florida summer while jogging, well, it's not going to happen. And if I don't carry while jogging (when I'm probably most vulnerable) then why bother?

191 For those of you interested in getting a concealed weapons permit in Florida, a great book on the legal aspects is "Florida Firearms: Law, Use & Ownership", written by a lawyer who specializes in defending gun owners who defend themselves. I believe that most CCW states have someone who's written a book applicable to your states's laws. Know what you're getting into. Know the laws: in my state saying the magic words "I have a gun" in an argument while carrying concealed (even if you have a permit), is a 3 year minimum sentence.

192 "Top Shot" did it for me. Well...along with Obama, etc.... I bought my first gun last year. So count that as at least one for a previously non-gun owner.

193 Here in MA, shortly after the 11/2008 election, I was in a Bass Pro Shop.  I wandered over to the gun department and asked the clerk how sales were going.  He told me that right after that election, gun and ammunition sales skyrocketed....here in MA!   Last time I was there you had to take a ticket (like at the deli)and stand in line.  There was definitely a correlation between obama's election and the gun sales.  What I find puzzling and infuriating is that MA voted heavily for obama.  Guess they didn't think the rest of the nation would be as nutty as they are.  Reality hit, and gun sales soared.

194 Yeah, it's a chance I take but carrying a concealed firearm in a manner where it can be withdrawn in 1 second, yet remain concealed in the hot Florida summer while jogging, well, it's not going to happen. And if I don't carry while jogging (when I'm probably most vulnerable) then why bother?

Posted by: S-Cargo at April 09, 2012 03:57 AM (xP8Aq)

 

The answer to your problem is a Seecamp .32 ACP: super-small frame but good in the hand, expensive but made with immaculate quality, and of a caliber and a cartridge (you use the ammo specified by the manufacturer) that is highly effective at very close range (5 yards and less). Seecamp makes his little guns in .380 now but I don't recommend the larger caliber. The greater recoil negates the superb handling offered by the .32 ACP version.

Beats pepper spray any day.

195 I grew up occasionally hunting n shooting but didnt personally own more than pellat gun until about 2 yrs ago. Now i have multiple. Politicians part of the reason. Also society in general, and the justice system. These days "rights" activists bend overbackwards to lighten sentences or free pos's, while decent citizens get bent over forwards. There r alot of sickos out ther now who just get emboldened by seeing how easy it is to get away w stuff or who just plain dont care. Our grandparents who ashamed of what good ppl have let america become. I hav always paid attention to current events since childhood n ppl r just rotten inside these days. Not that im a saint but just pay real attention to the news. Very disturbing things happening to people just minding their own business. I dont know if many of u have heard but tak only one example from my neck of the woods. Look up "Christian/ Newsome murders/ tortures knoxville tn". Dont read before bed. I have seen other similar stories around the country. It seems the last 20 yrs or so these things have increased.

196 Also i have a wife now and she was extremely naive/not streetsmart before me, and shes very nice, passive, and very attractive. I worry alot for her when im not around. I have and badass dog and guns, but id really like to get her carrying. She still isnt comfortable w a gun but im trying to change that.

197 Sorry for multiple posts but thought id also add a couple things: 1)america is living on borrowed money w no responsible budget in sight. 2) islamic terrorists r very likely living n the us waiting for a good opportunity. Search jihad pamphletts found on southern non- border. Mexicans n central americans r catholic. There r more reasons to own and carry than not.

198 Also i have a wife now and she was extremely naive/not streetsmart before me, and shes very nice, passive, and very attractive. I worry alot for her when im not around. I have and badass dog and guns, but id really like to get her carrying. She still isnt comfortable w a gun but im trying to change that.

Posted by: Infidelswine at April 09, 2012 10:15 AM (r1gI

 

My girlfriend is a Boston Irish Catholic transplant to Indiana, so guns and private gun ownership were strange, alien concepts. She changed her mind after a purse snatching incident, and asked me to familiarize her with firearms. I taught her to shoot using a S&W Model 14-2 K38 Target Masterpiece, a marvelous training gun since the trigger on it is the sweetest ever made by man and it feels comfortable in the hand, of a caliber not so powerful (.38 Special) it would ingraine a flinch in a novice shooter. The beauty of it was she was a clean slate, open to instruction and suggestions, with no bad habits to un-teach. Once she had gained proficiency and confidence, I took her to a gun shop to pick out her own piece, and she settled on a Barretta .25 ACP Bobcat. I don't much care for such a small caliber myself, but I wanted her to like what she shoots so she'll want to practice with it often.

 

Now she's frigging Annie Oakley with that little Baretta and loves our days at the range. Friends have chided me about it, asking me if teaching a somewhat hotheaded Boston Irish girl to shoot so well is a very smart thing to do. I think so. I hope so. 

199 Years ago I had a Ruger Single-Six with the convertible cylinder that allowed you to switch to .22 Magnum rounds, and a little Remington Nylon 66 .22LR.  At a certain point in my life I needed money, I thought, more than I needed target shooters, so I sold 'em.  I've been thinking about getting back into it -- a Saturday morning at the indoor range would be a lot more fun than many things. 

Personally I want to keep it simple for home defense, maybe a revolver.  The old Single Action Army .45 Long Colt worked just fine for peace officers on the frontier; why not today?

200 Personally I want to keep it simple for home defense, maybe a revolver. The old Single Action Army .45 Long Colt worked just fine for peace officers on the frontier; why not today?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at April 09, 2012 10:56 AM (exvgC)

 

If you go with a revolver for home defense, go with a modern double-action revolver, always. I own a Remington 1858 45 LC conversion, and it's a great, old-school, big bore, single-action monster, a great sport and range pistol, but if I was using a revolver for home defense, I would most definitely want double-action or semiautomatic capability for the weapon upon which I'm staking my life and the lives and safety of my family.

201

Sorry, I meant to say, '...but if I was using a revolver...would most definitely want double-action capability.'

 

I inadvertently wrote 'semiautomatic' because a semiautomatic pistol is my home defense weapon, the one on the nightstand by the bed.

202 I am a recent convert...bought a Springfield xDM 9mm ...very happy with it.

203  201  . . . If you go with a revolver for home defense, go with a modern double-action revolver, always.[/]
*
*
Why is that?  Because it's easier/faster to fire multiple rounds in a crisis situation, rather than remember, "Cock hammer, squeeze trigger, repeat"?

204 Durn italics.

205 Why is that? Because it's easier/faster to fire multiple rounds in a crisis situation, rather than remember, "Cock hammer, squeeze trigger, repeat"?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at April 09, 2012 12:02 PM (exvgC)

 

Yes. In a crisis situation, body flooded with adrenalin, mind racing, heart playing the Mambo, the simpler the operation of the weapon the less likely you (or I) would screw it up. 

206 The time it takes to have the thought, 'Note to self: cock hammer,' is the time it takes to be dead. 

207  206  Why is that? Because it's easier/faster to fire multiple rounds in a crisis situation, rather than remember, "Cock hammer, squeeze trigger, repeat"?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at April 09, 2012 12:02 PM (exvgC)

Yes. In a crisis situation, body flooded with adrenalin, mind racing, heart playing the Mambo,the simpler the operation of the weapon the less likely you (or I) would screw it up.

Well, then, something like Son of Sam's trusty old .44 Bulldog would probably be just about right.

208 Everyone should give Glock 21 sf a look. It has the stopping power of a 45 hp for the pro football sized meth/crackheads that arent going to go down w small calibers, while being much easier to aim w than big caliber revolvers(as n recoil). I do recognize that there r less mechanics to go wrong on a revolver, but its a personal preference. Plus semiautos can carry more rounds, and thats always good when surprised w the unexpected.

209 I want (but can't afford) a Luger.  A few years ago I got to fire one, a 9mm I think, at an indoor range.  The Walther P-38 auto's a grip is too wide from front to back for my hand to grip it comfortably, but the Luger felt as though it were made for me.  I hardly had to aim to score high on the target -- just point and shoot, and the bullets went where I wanted 'em.

Didn't some U.S. company obtain the rights to the design, and issue some "new" Lugers a few years ago?

210 Well, then, something like Son of Sam's trusty old .44 Bulldog would probably be just about right.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at April 09, 2012 12:44 PM (exvgC)

 

A retired cop friend of mine owns a Charter Arms Bulldog and swears by it. (Charter Arms went out of business several years ago and then restarted recently under new management--quality control is light-years better now, by all accounts.)

.44 Special is the most underappreciated caliber out there, in my view. Lots of big bore punch but without the recoil flip (and expense) of the .44 magnum.

211 I have a glock 23 (.40) issued duty weapon, a glock 27 (also. 40) as my personal weapon. I also purchased a Ruger pc4 carbine (basically a modern take on the M1 acarbine). Same ammo works in all 3. I also have a Mossberg 12 gauge, a .22 Marlin rifle, and a Chiefs Special airweight. 38. I think the M1carbine has taken a beating here. It is more than capable of putting down a badguy. It puts out the same energy as a 357 out to 100 yds. Plenty of Japanese, German, North Korean, Chinese, and NVA would agree (had they lived). Its not as powerful as the Garand, nut served its purpose.

212  211  A retired cop friend of mine owns a Charter Arms Bulldog and swears by it. (Charter Arms went out of business several years ago and then restarted recently under new management--quality control is light-years better now, by all accounts.)
.44 Special is the most underappreciated caliber out there, in my view. Lots of big bore punch but without the recoil flip (and expense) of the .44 magnum.
*
*
I looked Charter Arms up.  They make the Bulldog in .44 Special in blue, stainless, or "tiger stripe."  It only holds 5 cartridges, yes.  But as Major Boothroyd told M and James Bond in Doctor No, "By the time they're gone, somebody's been killed."

213 How is the price of ammo for .40 and .44? I wouldnt trade my 45 but the ammo is outrageous. Please b specific. Earlier posts kept refering to "boxes," but there r different amounts in boxes.

214 I've been slowly accumulating .223 and 5.56 since the beginning of the year and have noticed supplies drying up and costs inching up.  It's probably going to get worse as the AR market is reaching critical mass.  If you find a reasonably good deal on line, stock up.

215 I think the M1carbine has taken a beating here. It is more than capable of putting down a badguy. It puts out the same energy as a 357 out to 100 yds. Plenty of Japanese, German, North Korean, Chinese, and NVA would agree (had they lived). Its not as powerful as the Garand, nut served its purpose.

Posted by: Elliot at April 09, 2012 01:20 PM (6RDA5)

 

In some of his writings and video pieces, firearms expert and 'modern technique of the pistol' proponent Jeff Cooper lambasted the M1 carbine in general and the .30 caliber specifically. He claimed it didn't do the job in the Pacific theater in WWII, based on his own eyewitness observations--which makes it anecdotal evidence, which is the flimsiest evidence of all. Since the late Colonel Cooper is so venerated, I'm guessing his opinion on the matter reverberated throughout the shooting community over time.

 

Insofar as Cooper's modern technique is concerned, I tend to think Fairbairn, Sykes, and Applegate were right: there is usually no time to do anything when faced with a sudden, unexpected threat at less than 5 yards in poor light but draw, point, and shoot one-handed as quickly as you possibly can. Good luck assuming the Weaver and waiting for Cooper's famous 'surprise break' on the trigger while the bad guy is bearing down on you. That said, if you know something or someone bad is coming your way, finding cover and assuming a stable shooting stance per Cooper's modern technique would be a good idea. So is running quickly in the opposite direction. As I read once on a gun forum, 'My carry piece is a starter pistol for the overweight, middle-aged guy sprint'. Sage observation, in my view.

216 Re:the M1 Carbine. 

As a main battle rifle, I wouldn't want the carbine, but it served its purpose as a lighter self defense weapon for mortar-men, truck drivers, and others whose primary job was not shooting the enemy. There are lots of bodies buried around the globe with those .30 cal rounds in them.   Many police departments used the carbine for decades as patrol rifles (and I'll bet there are more than a few still around). 

In the context of this thread, telling someone to avoid the carbine as a home defense weapon is foolish.  It will do the job (as will most weapons if you are properly trained, and hit your target in a vital area-which is the real name of the game, not caliber).

 Given the choice between arming a novice shooter (like my 120 lb wife) with a carbine or shotgun for home defense, I'll give her the carbine. (as a LEO firearms instructor, I can tell you that most women -and a lot of men-don't like the shotgun, no matter how much they shoot it).

217 check out cheaper than dirt

218 PS: I love my underwood M1 carbine

219 The M1 carbine was much cheaper to make than the 1911 45 pistol so more of them could be made.  It was standard issue for the support troops in the rear areas.  As a defensive weapon today it probably should be compared to handguns it replaced rather than other long guns.  In a pinch, I would rather my wife have a carbine than handgun.  With a rifle and a steady rest I would be disappointed to miss a pop can at 100 yards.   I'm happy if I hit a paper plate with a handgun at 20 yards.

On the other hand, in the dark of the night, there is nothing quite as distinctive as the sound of the action of a 12 gauge pump shotgun being worked.  I sure am glad the cops then walked down a cross street.

220 On the other hand, in the dark of the night, there is nothing quite as distinctive as the sound of the action of a 12 gauge pump shotgun being worked. I sure am glad the cops then walked down a cross street. Posted by: upper at April 09, 2012 09:41 PM (0cBMc) In the dark of the night, I'm guessing an even more distinctive sound is the very loud barrage of bullets fired in the direction of the guy who just gave his position away by racking the pump of his shotgun.