December 01, 2012
— andy Is It Safe?
One thing that's been drilled into my head since I was a small child is gun safety. When I say I grew up with guns in the house, I mean there was at least one in every room. They were usually loaded or had full magazines. And trigger locks? Puh-leeze.
Things are different these days. The People's Republic of Massachusetts requires you to keep your guns locked up at home, but even before I lived here, I had a wife who enacted that same law once we had kids in the house.
The focus on physically securing firearms is all well and good, but they don't exist to accessorize a room in a gun cabinet or be locked out of sight in a safe. The real fun comes in shooting them, and of course an element of danger comes along with that.
The NRA has three fundamental rules of safe gun handling:
1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use. Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.
I'd add a fourth: There is no such thing as an "unloaded gun". The explanation of every gun accident you ever hear of begins. "I didn't know it was loaded ..."
Gun of the Week - Answer
Identify this revolver by make, model and caliber (answer appears at the end of the thread):
Sure, You Can Make a Gun Out Of a Shovel, But Let's See You Make One Out Of a Hoe
From moron XBradTC, comes this tale of ingenuity. I mean, who hasn't looked at a shovel and thought, "I can make an AK out of that"?
Marksmanship Award
I found out after the inaugural gun thread that Cam Edwards is a lurker moron. Hi, Cam! Here's one of his armed self defense tweets from this week.
Hero of the Day - Ohio: Burglar caught after homeowner shoots at him - news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/Â… #NRA (via @cincienquirer)
— Cam and Company (@CamAndCompany) December 1, 2012
And if you want to help a brother out, you can listen to Cam's show each weeknight on SiriusXM Patriot 125 from 9pm to midnight eastern or stream it live from NRANews.
Gun of the Week
The gun of the week is the Smith & Wesson Model 1917 in .45 ACP. Colt made one too, but the photo is the S&W. You can tell the difference between the two easily by the S&W-style vs. Colt-style cylinder latch.
Just The Tip
Thanks for the great gun thread tips and requests that were sent in this week. Sorry I couldn't get to them all, but they're in the queue.
If there are topics you're interested in seeing in the gun thread, please send them to AoSHQGunThread at gmail. You can also send them to me on Twitter at @AndyM1911.
Posted by: andy at
09:55 AM
| Comments (275)
Post contains 676 words, total size 5 kb.
Posted by: navybrat at December 01, 2012 10:01 AM (Pjt1t)
Now, all I need is a map of local water towers...
Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 10:02 AM (doBIb)
Posted by: damnnodaks at December 01, 2012 10:03 AM (IhvEa)
I read about having to be extra careful with the amount of powder in a home load. Exploding chamber = bad.
Do shotgun shells require the same level of caution?
Posted by: fluffy at December 01, 2012 10:03 AM (z9HTb)
Identify this revolver by make, model and caliber (answer appears at the end of the thread):
It's a blank.
Whad'I win?
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at December 01, 2012 10:03 AM (JEpGb)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 01, 2012 10:04 AM (Mnvm/)
The cabinet had a nice glass front door, which went the entire height of the cabinet. It had a lock, a sort of perfunctory one. The key was always on the top of the cabinet. The glass front meant that the guns within could be admired. Now, I have a lot of those guns in my cabinet, which is more like a bank safe, secured on a concrete slab in my garage. Times change.
Posted by: navybrat at December 01, 2012 10:05 AM (Pjt1t)
Christmas present to the Mrs. Lurking Canuck and Mini Lurking Canuck?
Enrollment in Canada's firearm safety course. Then, guns and ammunition for the coming Free Shit Army Zombie Apolcalyse!
Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 01, 2012 10:06 AM (lMOZd)
I've got extensive training and history with firearms, and I can tell you this guy was very good at what he does.
One of the things he said was, the scariest words you will ever hear are "it's not loaded." He says when he hears those words he gets as far away from that person as he can, because he knows anybody who knows what they are doing doesn't TELL you a gun is not loaded, he shows you.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 10:08 AM (BeSEI)
Posted by: Lurking Canuck at December 01, 2012 10:09 AM (lMOZd)
ALWAYS declare the state of your weapon to those around you.
Crossing fences, stopping for a piss, ANY reason you can find to let people know if your gun is loaded, breached, un-loaded, etc.
I have been hunting with the same 3 guys for the last 20 years because they are the only safety minded guys I have ever found.
Posted by: garrett at December 01, 2012 10:09 AM (Bm0GP)
5. Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting multiple times.
Posted by: Joe Mama at December 01, 2012 10:10 AM (EKr9U)
Posted by: garrett at December 01, 2012 10:10 AM (Bm0GP)
Posted by: fluffy at December 01, 2012 02:03 PM (z9HTb)
YES!
Posted by: Joe Mama at December 01, 2012 10:10 AM (EKr9U)
Don't forget the fabu lanyard cord that all the fashion forward officers love!
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at December 01, 2012 10:11 AM (JEpGb)
Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 10:13 AM (OZPoa)
The first lesson to teach a kid is that he/she should never take/touch a weapon until it is breached and demonstrated to be unloaded.
I never got tired of my old man, uncles, and grandfather testing me, either.
Posted by: garrett at December 01, 2012 10:13 AM (Bm0GP)
Posted by: rickl at December 01, 2012 10:14 AM (sdi6R)
Links on Drudge go to a site, the comments there are disgusting.
If you are prone to depression, part of your safety plan needs to be turning your firearms over to somebody else UNTIL YOU ARE MENTALLY STABLE ENOUGH to handle a firearm again.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 10:15 AM (BeSEI)
Posted by: Fritz at December 01, 2012 10:16 AM (d8K+M)
I don't blame them. After he shot the first gun off, that should have been the end of his demonstrating anything. That he went right on with his talk undermined any credibility he had regarding taking gun safety seriously.
Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at December 01, 2012 10:18 AM (jeAQW)
Well, this isn't really about guns, but it's about weapons and I'm not asking for a debate about longbows...
My kids broke a toy bow they had and I thought about getting something more real for the 12 year old.
I don't actually want anything he can kill his brother and sister with...yeh, I'm a spoilsport...
Academy has a whole section on Youth Archery:
So my question is just is there anything there or elsewhere that would be good for messing around with in the back yard but that is better than a toy? Something with suction cups on Amazon had a bunch of reviews about how you really couldn't aim the darn thing...pass...
Posted by: Mama AJ at December 01, 2012 10:18 AM (SUKHu)
And after it is demonstrated to be unloaded, when you take possession of the weapon from the other person giving it to you, say thank you, or in some other way verbally acknowledge you now have possession of it.
The other person should NOT relinquish control of it until he or she knows you have taken control of it.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 10:18 AM (BeSEI)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 01, 2012 10:20 AM (Mnvm/)
Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 10:20 AM (OZPoa)
Well he did acknowledge this was presumably his last firearms demonstration he'd ever be allowed to give, so he tried to explain one of the consequences of being as stupid as he was.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 10:21 AM (BeSEI)
Posted by: rickl at December 01, 2012 02:14 PM (sdi6R)
In fairness, guy proved his a dumbshit, I'd be freaked out too. Sad thing is that probably created a whole room of anti-second amendment people in that one instance.
My rule, it's not unloaded until I have personally inspected the chamber, clip, etc. otherwise, treat as loaded.
In my hunter's ed class one of the teachers said he had an old rifle with an internal clip below the barrel, it got a bullet stuck up in there and came loose on what he thought was an unloaded gun some time later. Luckily he noticed before anything bad happened.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 10:22 AM (GaqMa)
When things get intense, your fingers can do stupid things. If they are off the trigger it doesn't matter.
Not one of the idiot cops who shot themselves holstering a glock would have had an AD with an extended trigger finger.
Not only is it safe - but it broadcasts safety to those around you. I can tell you from thousands of hours of range time that I seldom look at the muzzle, I look for that finger.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 10:22 AM (qBLA2)
Posted by: Beagle at December 01, 2012 10:23 AM (sOtz/)
Posted by: eleven at December 01, 2012 10:24 AM (fsLdt)
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 10:24 AM (qBLA2)
My home self-defense weapon is kept loaded at all times. No round in the chamber, but a full magazine.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 10:25 AM (GsoHv)
I thought early on he said he was the only one qualified to hold that kind of weapon or something like that, but after he shot the gun most of what he said was unintelligible to me without more effort than I was willing to give.
Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at December 01, 2012 10:26 AM (jeAQW)
Posted by: USS Diversity at December 01, 2012 10:27 AM (85EaA)
My home self-defense weapon is kept loaded at all times. No round in the chamber, but a full magazine.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:25 PM (GsoHv)
Have you considered keeping the magazine next to the gun? Solved the "stored loaded" problem, and takes only a few seconds to put the two together.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 10:27 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Butters at December 01, 2012 10:28 AM (NIZHJ)
The M&P? Yes, it's a good AR for the money. Perfect for keeping the FSA away from you.
Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 10:28 AM (doBIb)
It also has the added benefit of, hand/eye coordination being what it is, if you must turn quickly and fire, before your finger enters the trigger guard, your weapon is now pointed where you want it pointed. Not as accurate as using the front sights, but in a situation where fractions of a second count, accurate enough.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 10:28 AM (BeSEI)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 10:29 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: yankeefith at December 01, 2012 10:29 AM (Z9EHQ)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 02:25 PM (GsoHv)
I quizzed a state patrolman once about carrying a loaded (same as yours none in the chamber) gun in the car or if it should be unloaded (magazine removed).
His answer: "it won't do you much good if it's unloaded".
Posted by: Joe Mama at December 01, 2012 10:29 AM (EKr9U)
Visit your local gun range and sign up for a beginner class. They'll teach you everything you need to know about safe handling. You may be able to try out a .22 rifle or a shottie while you're there too.
Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 10:30 AM (doBIb)
You might try looking at one of the Fred Bear Youth rigs: http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/bows/youth
But there is the ability to be lethal even with those. It's all about education and safety.
Posted by: Country Singer at December 01, 2012 10:30 AM (92IJx)
Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 10:31 AM (OZPoa)
If you are a female, look for a female instructor. Every yahoo and his brother will want to give you lessons. Unless you look like janet reno, that is.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 10:31 AM (qBLA2)
Heh, understood.
It was something like "see kids? This is what happens when you don't handle guns safely, and now I'll never be allowed to give this demonstration again."
And he then proceeds to limp around, and try to continue with the lesson, so yeah, mixed message he's sending there.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 10:31 AM (BeSEI)
The extra magazine is next to the loaded pistol.
I have been shooting since I was five years old, and every one of those shooting sessions was focused on Safety....Safety....Safety!
I don't think that a pistol with a loaded magazine and an empty chamber is less safe than an empty weapon.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 10:31 AM (GsoHv)
(NSFW-ish)
http://tinyurl.com/bsnfre7
Posted by: Uh Oh at December 01, 2012 10:31 AM (Ys6PL)
Shhh!
She's upstairs...she'll hear you!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 10:32 AM (GsoHv)
Then was shuttled off to the junior high circuit.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 10:33 AM (qBLA2)
Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 02:31 PM (OZPoa)
Well, all of the other weapons are in the safe, so......
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 01, 2012 10:33 AM (GsoHv)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 10:34 AM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:29 PM (5H6zj)
People start with .22s because the ammo is cheap (and the guns are fairly inexpensive too.) But the shooting techniques for Skeet and .22 shooting are fairly different (I have one friend who compares it to tennis and racquetball, they share concepts, but are just different enough that learning one first can subtly mess up the other.)
Frankly I can't shake my .22 tendencies when shooting trap, I still want to close one eye, and have poor followthrough.
Having said that, 'round these parts we have "intro to [gun type] seminars where they provide the gun and ammo for an afternoon and you go down and they teach you basics, etc. I think it's a good start. You may also want to look into places that allow you to rent guns for a day (on range, not take them a way) to see what feels right. Case in point, I own a Mossberg 835, I prefer the heft of the gun with it's wood stock and overbored barrel to my friend's Remington 870Express, that gun just don't feel right to me.)
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 10:34 AM (GaqMa)
(NSFW-ish)
http://tinyurl.com/bsnfre7
Oh hell yeah!!!
Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 10:34 AM (doBIb)
Posted by: yankeefith at December 01, 2012 10:34 AM (Z9EHQ)
Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 10:35 AM (OZPoa)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 10:35 AM (5H6zj)
Amen, that's what I did for my daughter. We found an instructor who co-facilitates with his wife. Indeed, he did the "classroom" instruction, and she took the lead on the range.
Y-not, I'm not sure what your objection to a handgun is, but just know that if you are using it for self-defense, you can't carry a concealed shotgun... well, you could, but....
And if you are in your home, there are practical advantages to being able to hide and fire quickly from a tight spot. A shotgun will lose you precious fractions of seconds bringing it up to aim.
I'm not saying a shotgun is not fun, nor is it a bad idea to have one around for big problems, but most people should have a handgun for their primary self-defense weapon.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 10:36 AM (BeSEI)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 10:37 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: Mauser757 at December 01, 2012 10:37 AM (8SdG7)
Posted by: Andy at December 01, 2012 10:38 AM (OZPoa)
I second the advice on a female instructor. Most ranges should have a female staff member nowadays. Some ranges even offer women-only classes and personal instruction.
Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 10:38 AM (doBIb)
Posted by: Polliwogette, disappointed hobbit at December 01, 2012 10:40 AM (NYki8)
>>You might try looking at one of the Fred Bear Youth rigs: http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/bows/youth
>>But there is the ability to be lethal even with those
Thank you.
Yeh, I think our backyard is just too small for anything but a toy one. Or our neighbors' yards are too close...
Maybe I'll stick to the "soft-tipped" darts and board I looked at for now.
Posted by: Mama AJ at December 01, 2012 10:40 AM (SUKHu)
I'm not saying a shotgun is not fun, nor is it a bad idea to have one around for big problems, but most people should have a handgun for their primary self-defense weapon.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 02:36 PM (BeSEI)
Meh, I've always felt that my primary concern is getting to safety, not getting the guy breaking in, so I don't even keep my shotgun upstairs. I'm going for the quickest, safest exit I can find. Having said that, if I get forced into the basement by conditions, you be your ass I'm coming up firing. But "precious seconds?" My shotgun has a 30 in patter, whose aiming at that point?
As for CBD's point, that's kinda also where I stand, an abundence of caution, mostly because I won't remember if I left the chamber clear or not. And I don't intend on hanging around long enough to exhaust a magazine.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 10:41 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 10:41 AM (5H6zj)
Depending on what state you live in, find your state's 2A advocacy group online. They'll likely have a forum and will let you know what gun stores and other organizations/businesses can provide instruction. Another great place to start is the Appleseed Project: http://www.appleseedinfo.org/ .
Posted by: Country Singer at December 01, 2012 10:42 AM (92IJx)
Again--why on earth, if circumstances dictate having a weapon handy, would you not keep it in a usable state?
An unusable long gun is just a club, a pistol makes a poor rock. Loaded and one up the spout posits that you got enough sense to handle ANY weapon safely.
Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 10:42 AM (SAMxH)
Extend your thumb and cover up something with it with both eyes open.
Close your left eye. Did your thumb move?
No - right eye dominant.
Yes - left eye dominant.
Females - for what ever reason - are more likely to be cross dominant.
Here is a good website for females and good explanation of cross eye dominance.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 10:42 AM (qBLA2)
2) Find something you like and feel comfortable with, so try a few different things.
3) Everyone is going to tell you the best thing to buy. Don't buy. When you begin to understand a little bit do some research. Then ask more questions.
4) Don't be embarrassed or feel stupid. Everyone was a beginner once.
5) This can be fun if you let it.
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 10:43 AM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: RWC at December 01, 2012 10:43 AM (sqp6o)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:37 PM (5H6zj)
I confess to never having seen an indoor skeet range (although I assume they exist) and I haven't been to an indoor range in years (MO conservation runs a great outdoor range that requires no membership and allows shooting for $3/trap round or $3/hour target shooting.)
So yeah, YMMV in terms of scheduling and whatnot on that one, can't really help you there.
Just a heads up, Deer season I shoot 12 gauge slugs, I haven't personally run into problems, but my friends have of ranges saying those are "too big" and not allowing them. (Similarly, the MO range I use has a limit on shot larger than a #7, so I can't pattern my turkey choke there.)
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 10:44 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: rickl at December 01, 2012 10:44 AM (sdi6R)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 10:46 AM (2nD8D)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 10:47 AM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 10:47 AM (5H6zj)
Anyone here have a 300 AAC Blackout? What do you think of it? Recommendations?
Posted by: damnnodaks at December 01, 2012 02:03 PM (IhvEa)
-------------------------
Funny you should ask - I just discovered that rounds about a week ago. My plan now is to pick up a S&W M&P Sport when the panic buying dies down, and put a RRA mid-length 5.56 upper on it. Then I'll pull the barrel off of the now-useless S&W upper and install a .300 Blackout barrel for about $200. Should be good for some giggles. I mean, it's pointless, but pretty much 95% of my gun buys are.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 10:47 AM (celt+)
The way my house is set up, it may not be possible to get out before someone gets between my family and the exits.
There's a good video out there, I think it's called "Run, Hide, Fight."
In that order. So yeah, if you can, get out. If you can't, hide. And if your hiding place is breached, fight to the death.
My handgun is by my bed. It's coming with me, whether I'm running away or hiding or fighting.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 10:48 AM (BeSEI)
Thats kind of a strange question. All commercial ammunition has to conform with SAAMI specs and all are safe to use in the correct caliber/gauge in modern firearms.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 10:48 AM (qBLA2)
Posted by: RWC at December 01, 2012 10:49 AM (sqp6o)
Had a friend whose rule at deer camp was that all firearms are always loaded. No exceptions, thus no ambiguity.
Worked.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey at December 01, 2012 10:50 AM (z4bFV)
221 fireball necked up to 308 cal.
If you don't like the 22s, cut out the middle man and go to a HK 91 or PTR.
20 rounds of real 30 cal and german original issue mags for 1.97 at CTD.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 10:51 AM (qBLA2)
RDS and HWS...
Which brands do you prefer? I'm in the market for some optics. Not really going for long-range target shooting, just something for close to intermediate range use.
Posted by: EC at December 01, 2012 10:51 AM (doBIb)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 02:41 PM (5H6zj)
This is my purchasing strategy too. I don't have hundreds to thousands to spend on guns, I have to be judicious. So I got a shotgun first, trap shooing, then with minor barrell adjustment (i.e. new barrel) I got myself a deer gun. With a new choke, I got myself a turkey gun. All for less than the cost of a Pistol (I bought used on the gun and barrel.)
Yeah if I had a bigger budget, I'd probably get myself a decent 30-06 or .308, but I don't, it's that simple. So it's better to have a gun I enjoy and might be useful for home defense, than a gun that sits in my drawer.
Although if I could do it all over again, I'd get iron sights for my slug barrel over scope rail. I thought scope rail would be easier, it's really not. (but I was in more of a hurry than I should have been, long story.)
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 10:52 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Country Singer at December 01, 2012 10:52 AM (92IJx)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 10:53 AM (2nD8D)
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 10:54 AM (qBLA2)
Posted by: Richard Aubrey at December 01, 2012 02:50 PM (z4bFV)
My friends rule was "assume the 30-30 lever action is loaded at all times." (The rest of us had guns with open breaches, so we left them open.)
That damn 30-30 though. When you loaded it, it was armed, no safety, no nothing. And disarming it was a bitch (you basically had no choice but to level out all the rounds in the built in magazine, then dry fire.)
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 10:55 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: rickl at December 01, 2012 10:55 AM (sdi6R)
Posted by: I lurk, therefore I am at December 01, 2012 10:55 AM (mepMv)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 10:55 AM (5H6zj)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 10:58 AM (2nD8D)
For the beginners.
MOA seems to be a term that confuses most people. Here's my gross approximate over-simplification:
MOA means "Minute of Angle", and is the benchmark for a good-shooting rifle. VERY ROUGHLY (don't jump down my throat, pedants), it refers to shooting a group (that's a five-shot cluster) that measures an inch across for every hundred yards. So, a one-inch group at 100 yards would be MOA (or 1MOA). A two-inch group at that distance would be 2MOA. A six-inch group at 200 yards would be 3MOA, the same group at 300 yards would be 2MOA, etc.
Experts, if I'm utterly wrong about this, please do correct me.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 10:59 AM (celt+)
Of course there is minute of dirtbag accuracy as well - but that is usually determined at 7 yds.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:01 AM (qBLA2)
My Remington New Model Army can be carried with all chambers loaded. It has a milled notch between each chamber to allow this.
And it's a Civil War weapon--go figure.
Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 11:01 AM (SAMxH)
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:01 AM (qBLA2)
Posted by: RWC at December 01, 2012 11:01 AM (sqp6o)
Bulk ammo. Heh.
Also, my new favorite site to check out every few days is:
http://gunssavelives.net/
They compile press reports of guns used in self defense, with links. I'll note that I just checked and the Cincinnati story isn't there.
There are more cases of gun use in self defense than you think.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 11:02 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 11:03 AM (5H6zj)
Even 1911 series 80s had this contraption. (first thing to go in a trigger job.)
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:04 AM (qBLA2)
Keep in mind, your rear sight on a shotgun is your eye.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:06 AM (qBLA2)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 11:06 AM (2nD8D)
That S&W has a transfer bar which prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.
Tell your cop friend to pay attention when he is armed and stupid stuff like that won't happen.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:09 AM (qBLA2)
300 blk, 300 whisper - same thing.
221 fireball necked up to 308 cal.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 02:51 PM (qBLA2)
-----------------
Nope.
Whisper is a necked .221. Blackout is a trimmed & necked 5.56. There are small dimensional differences. Also, Whisper is not SAAMI-spec. A Blackout will chamber a Whisper round, but not vice-versa. So, while this could be a .223 in a 5.56 scenario (usually OK), why take the chance?
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 11:09 AM (celt+)
1. ALL weapons must be treated as if they are always loaded.
2. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and you are prepared to fire.
3. Never point a weapon at anything you are not willing to shoot, kill, or destroy.
4. Be certain of your target and beyond.
Finally, boarding house rules of gun etiquette... Nobody gets seconds until everybody gets first's...
Posted by: northwest_g at December 01, 2012 11:11 AM (CIndg)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 11:11 AM (6H6FZ)
Yeah, and no offense, but if you didn't see it, don't believe the kid just happened to drop it and it SOMEHOW went off!!
That's usually a lie on the same level as "sorry honey, I must have gotten herpes from a toilet seat."
Trigger got pulled. Somehow, some way.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2012 11:11 AM (BeSEI)
AAC is trying to get a government contract.
I will go by what JD Jones has to say. He is the inventor.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:12 AM (qBLA2)
A cop buddy used to store his off duty S/W hammer down on a loaded chamber. His boy got to fuckin' with it, dropped it and it went off. Round went harmlessly into the wall, through the garage wall and into the garage. Kid was scared shitless, Dad was fit to be tied and Mom had a high-speed come apart.
-----------------
My bet is the kid pulled the trigger, and lied about "dropping" it.
"Five beans in the wheel" was good advice for pre-transfer-bar revolvers. There's a reason nobody says that anymore.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 11:14 AM (celt+)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 01, 2012 11:16 AM (JDIKC)
Posted by: J. Moses Browning at December 01, 2012 11:16 AM (DAfG4)
Yeah, and no offense, but if you didn't see it, don't believe the kid just happened to drop it and it SOMEHOW went off!!
That's usually a lie on the same level as "sorry honey, I must have gotten herpes from a toilet seat."
Trigger got pulled. Somehow, some way.
If you don't mind me mixing in with the gaming thread, IIRC in one of the World of Darkness sets (I think was 2nd edition) dropping a glock (I think it was a glock, some handgun) meant you rolled a d6 to determine if it "accidently discharged" (on a 6.)
They claimed this as based on an actual error some of the glocks that was later corrected, but I never stopped to verify this. (Occam's razor suggest that as people are dropping the gun they're frantically trying to not drop it, and at some point a trigger gets pulled.)
What's the pull weight on most handguns away? (It's nearly impossible to accidently pull the trigger on my Mossberg, I think it's got a 10lb pull or some craziness. I need to get an accutrigger so I can tone it down during deer season)
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 11:16 AM (GaqMa)
The various "youth" models are great also. My wife started on an 1100 youth 20 and now has a Citori sporting clays she loves - but still goes back to the 1100 from time to time.
For you handloaders out there - check out Hodgdens youth loads for 12 gauge.
There is a 3/4 oz load with clays that is really sweet. May not cycle an autoloader, but in a pump or break open it is nice. With shot almost 50 bucks a bag, it is cost effective as well.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:16 AM (qBLA2)
AAC is trying to get a government contract.
I will go by what JD Jones has to say. He is the inventor.
-------------------
Oh, this is JD Jones vs AAC pissing-match stuff. Never mind.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 11:16 AM (celt+)
Personally, I could not care less. I don't use cartridges like that.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:19 AM (qBLA2)
But that safety mechanism has been known to break on rare rare occasions. You can see the safety at work by taking an unloaded revolver and pulling the trigger and holding it fully pulled. When you release the trigger, the hammer will spring back into the safety position. You can then push on the hammer if you like, to see that it will not move toward the firing pin any further.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 11:19 AM (ccXZP)
One other thing I would suggest for beginning handgunners---start with a .22,autoload or wheel, doesn't matter.
There is no perceptible recoil, so you don't catch a case of the flinches, and not thinking about recoil will let you practice safe handling, sight picture and all the rest without waiting for the bang and jump a large caliber will give you.
Once you master the basics, you can move up to the large stuff. Unfortunately, I've seen way too may neophytes ruined by not doing this.
Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 11:24 AM (SAMxH)
damnnodaks, back to your original question:
Think of the 300 Blackout as a modernized .30-30. If you're in a wooded area like New England, and you already have an AR and just want to switch uppers, it's a cheap way to have a .30-caliber AR. And it uses standard AR-15 5.56 mags that you already have, so it's even cheaper than dinged two-dollar HK mags.
If you're out where the ranges are long, and you anticipate shots over 200 yards, you're better off with a .308.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 11:24 AM (celt+)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 11:26 AM (2nD8D)
Posted by: mare at December 01, 2012 11:29 AM (A98Xu)
irongrandpa, when my dad was teaching me about guns and we finally moved up to a revolver with some horsepower, I was flinching. So what he did was load a random number of live and fired shells in it. The first time you see yourself reacting to no recoil, you will learn how to stop reacting. My aim improved immediately from this little trick.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 11:30 AM (ccXZP)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 11:31 AM (2CiZb)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 11:33 AM (2CiZb)
I intend to - which includes being careful, paying attention and not doing stupid things with firearms.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:34 AM (qBLA2)
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at December 01, 2012 11:35 AM (HoGA+)
Great trick, one I used salvaging a young lady shooter a few years back. Someone thought it a fine trick to let her shoot a hand cannon with no real instruction.
It took a summer of work, but now she actually enjoys punching paper. Plus this last year she went hunting with us. Made me smile.
Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 11:35 AM (SAMxH)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 11:36 AM (2nD8D)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 11:37 AM (2CiZb)
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:38 AM (qBLA2)
I need to figure out a way to get my wife to at least be less tepid towards the guns. Right now there's more of a detant than anything. She said she'd go with us to the range, but then suddenly backtracked sans explaination. Thoughts from anyone, likely especially the 'ettes.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 11:38 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 11:41 AM (2nD8D)
www.corneredcat.com
I much prefer Col Cooper's 4 rule system to the NRA system. There's more precision in the language, and I think that's important for safety. Other things, it's almost impossible to have a negligent discharge that hurts someone unless you violate TWO rules. Plus, there are no exceptions to the 4 rules......ever. You could be a casual shooter punching holes in paper at a formal range or a soldier on the battlefield or anything in between, the 4 rules always always always apply. I don't like the idea of thinking about exceptions to safety rules, it's a really bad habit to get into.
Over Thanksgiving, my SiL told me that it's time to take my eldest nephew out for his first time at the range, so we've planned it for the Christmas break. Already did a long talk with the kid about safety, and the American heritage of arms. Plus he has homework, he has to memorize the 4 rules by Christmas.
I can't wait.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 01, 2012 11:42 AM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Y-not at December 01, 2012 11:42 AM (5H6zj)
We almost always include a nice dinner with a range trip.
We push each other competitively so it works well.
Good luck! Make it fun - or else....
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:46 AM (qBLA2)
Tsr - guess I am lucky in that respect. My wife and I met shooting and we have the reloading room set up for his and hers.
We almost always include a nice dinner with a range trip.
We push each other competitively so it works well.
Good luck! Make it fun - or else....
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 03:46 PM (qBLA2)
Sounds like a match made in heaven. Come to think of it, shooting ranges are a nice little slice of heaven on earth, so I guess that would follow. I'm jealous, you lucky bastard.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 01, 2012 11:49 AM (TIIx5)
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:50 AM (qBLA2)
NO modern firearm will just "go off" when dropped. Not even the Glock. If there is a malfunction MAYBE, but modern firearms are built in such a way that if the trigger is not pulled the firing pin will not move. In todays litigious society a gun manufacturer would have to have a corporate death wish (so to speak) to build a firearm that could ever go off if it was just dropped.
When you release the trigger, the hammer will spring back into the safety position. You can then push on the hammer if you like, to see that it will not move toward the firing pin any further.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 03:19 PM (ccXZP)
Actually the hammer does not move, the transfer bar does. The hammer hits the transfer bar which then hits the firing pin. On a modern revolver without the trigger being pulled the transfer bar does not engage. The hammer never touches the firing pin on a modern revolver.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 11:51 AM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 11:54 AM (2CiZb)
Posted by: no lipreader at December 01, 2012 11:54 AM (BARK4)
@Other responders
"Us" is me and a mutal friend that she hangs out with all the time (actually in college she introduce me to him 
). No women other women (I don't have many/any women friends, and strangely neither does my wife).
As for pressuring her I once said offhandedly "you know you're welcome to go to the range with us, don't feel like we don't want you around." And she said "that sounds like something I'd like to try."
Fast foward a few months (I took some time off shooting for a while, due to time constraints) and suddenly she's more hostile towards my keeping guns in the house than I remember and when I said "you want to come with us" I got a "no I really don't like guns" statement.
I is perplexed.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 11:56 AM (GaqMa)
Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 03:35 PM (SAMxH)
Good for you irongrampa. I always want to hunt the YouTube douchebags down who video their girlfriends shooting high powered firearms without any kind of training and beat them to death with a hammer.
First, it isn't safe. Someone could get seriously injured or killed, and guns are not toys. Second, it ruins the shooting sport for the girl, and I firmly believe that EVERY female should be armed. I'd rather them explain the dead attacker at their feet than read about the discovery of a raped and strangled body.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 11:56 AM (yh0zB)
Actually the hammer does not move, the transfer bar does. The hammer hits the transfer bar which then hits the firing pin. On a modern revolver without the trigger being pulled the transfer bar does not engage. The hammer never touches the firing pin on a modern revolver
Thank you GGE.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 11:57 AM (qBLA2)
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 03:56 PM (GaqMa)
Something bad happened. Find out what it is.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 11:58 AM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 11:59 AM (2CiZb)
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:00 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 12:01 PM (2nD8D)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 12:03 PM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:03 PM (2CiZb)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 04:01 PM (2nD8D)
I guess? Her best friend in college (and before) owns 3 handguns. I'm a freaken lightweight compared to that with my 1 shotgun and barrel.
I'm starting to wonder if my mother (who almost made me store the shotgun I purchased with my own cash at a friends house) has somehow gotten her hocks into her (but I find that unlikely, as when I moved out I reached a detante with my mother on the gun issue "leave me the hell alone about my hunting" And thusfar she has.)
Although returning to the college friend, 2 of those are for target shooting and 1 is home defense (she lives in baltimore, a cestpool.) I'm wondering if that has linked "guns" and "violence" in my wife's mind...poorly.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 12:05 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Polliwogette, disappointed hobbit at December 01, 2012 12:05 PM (NYki8)
Marlin 795 (to make an Appleseed gun out of. I don't want a Ruger 10/22)
Remington 700 CDL in 30-06
M1 Garand or M1A (rather have the M1A)
M1911, just because
Ruger Blackhawk in .357
Saiga 12 shotgun
Winchester Model 94
Glock 19, cause it's the same size as my G36 with extensions but is cheaper to feed
Mosin M38 carbine
AR pattern Evil Black Rifle
(and enough money to feed them all)
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:06 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 12:06 PM (USjX1)
I agree totally with you on the hammer beating.
Assholes, all.
Took Spastic Lab out for squirrels this year, she's a perfect partner to chase them back around the tree, plus I don't have to go find them now. Lazy me just loves that.
Posted by: irongrampa at December 01, 2012 12:06 PM (SAMxH)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:08 PM (2CiZb)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 12:09 PM (2nD8D)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:03 PM (2CiZb)
That's true, but Range Partner has been busy with a new job and girlfriend so I haven't gotten out there lately (I shoot on his ticket at the gun club). I'm expecting he will contact me soon, he likes to go at least once a month...but this time of year is kind of tight anyway. I can just go to the indoor range for pistol shooting, but I want to shoot the rifles some.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:09 PM (yh0zB)
Four in the freezer . That should last till next year.I'm not through hunting , but it'll have to be a real monster for me to pull the trigger .
Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 04:06 PM (USjX1)
*feel my hatingness>>>>>>>*
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:11 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: jwpaine (@PirateBallerina) at December 01, 2012 12:11 PM (FUozQ)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:11 PM (2CiZb)
Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 12:14 PM (USjX1)
The various tuning devices, like the Browning Boss, and those used by 22 precision shooters also help by fine tuning the harmonics of the barrel.
Posted by: george at December 01, 2012 12:14 PM (qBLA2)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 12:14 PM (2nD8D)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:15 PM (2CiZb)
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 03:51 PM (yh0zB)
What do you mean by 'modern'? I have a SnW Model 66 .357 revolver, and the firing pin IS on the hammer and DOES directly strike the bullet. I just checked to make sure I wasn't full of shit. Now, it's in stainless steel and looks like new, but I happen to know it's over 30 years old. I suppose I could check the S/N and find out exactly how old it is, but it looks reasonably 'modern' to me. So this gun has a different mechanism than 'transfer bar strikes the firing pin'.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 12:17 PM (ccXZP)
This last time I took the Saiga, .223 isn't ideal for deer hunting but I'm using the 62gr Federal Fusion rounds and they are supposed to do real well. It would probably have done pretty good, it's short enough that it works good in a tree stand, but I'd still like a bigger round.
I need to find a good machine shop that can drill an .050 hole that I can tap for a 2-56 screw. I want to take another front blade for my Arisaka and make an adjustable front sight. I already have the blade, I just need to drill a hole and tap it so I can put a setscrew in to use for the front post. I'd like to take my Type 30 next, the 6.5x50 should work good for deer hunting and it's a carbine so it should handle well in the tree stand.
I do have a shotgun, but it's almost as long as the Mosin.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:18 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: sandman now with extra hate at December 01, 2012 12:18 PM (zxaA2)
Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 12:20 PM (USjX1)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:22 PM (2CiZb)
Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 12:22 PM (USjX1)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:23 PM (2CiZb)
Posted by: awkward davies at December 01, 2012 12:26 PM (USjX1)
Posted by: Polliwogette, disappointed hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:05 PM (NYki
I've going to revert to my baseline assumptions which usually are "something tangentially related to this hobby has upset her." Something like "I really didn't want you to go to the range that weekend but didn't tell you."
That has happened before.
Meanwhile, my base state is to not question her, I'll keep on up that. The baltimore friend likes to talk about her pistols a lot, so I'll just keep an ear to the ground about that.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 12:26 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Ammo Dump at December 01, 2012 12:27 PM (YYyqq)
Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 01, 2012 12:29 PM (G99e4)
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 04:17 PM (ccXZP)
Modern = early 40's or so. Smith has a hammer block instead of a transfer bar. Still, the firing pin is NOT on the hammer if it was made since the early 40's, it is in the frame of the gun. With the Smith the trigger allows the hammer block to retract, which lets the hammer hit the firing pin. The hammer should not be able to move far enough to hit the firing pin (which hits the primer in the cartridge, the bullet is the projectile) unless the trigger is pulled. You are right, though, when the trigger is released in the Smith the hammer does move, because the hammer block engages. My mistake, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:29 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:30 PM (2CiZb)
Posted by: mare at December 01, 2012 12:31 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 12:33 PM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 12:34 PM (NYki8)
Posted by: Ranba Ral at December 01, 2012 04:29 PM (G99e4)
That, and to join you have to know someone at the range and/or you have to attend their meetings, which always seem to happen on the nights I'm working.
My shottie is a Franchi (Benelli) I-12 auto loader, I don't know if I can get a shorter barrel for it. I can, however, get a longer barrel for my Maverick that will take Mossberg chokes, so I'll probably go that route.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:34 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:34 PM (2CiZb)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 04:33 PM (6H6FZ)
I stand corrected. Again. As you can tell, I'm not familiar with S and W (although I'm convinced of their quality, just never owned one).
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:36 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:34 PM (NYki
No, The Baltimore friend does not like me. (Also a long story). She's warmed up to me in recent years, but in high school was convinced I was just dating my (now wife) for sex that wasn't happening. It was strange, and it's only gotten marginally better.
@Mare
Decent suggestions. Perhaps next time I've got the mossberg out for cleaning I'll see if she wants to hold it and get a feel for it.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 12:36 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:39 PM (2CiZb)
1. All firearms are always loaded.
2. Never cover anything with the muzzle that you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on your target.
4. Always be sure of your target.
Jeff Cooper had it right.
Posted by: Alaska Paul at December 01, 2012 12:40 PM (CvA+Z)
By the by, I wouldn't say communication is a "problem" there are just quirks to iron out. Overally we communicate very well.
Meh, If she chooses not to participate it's her loss. Guns are fun.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 12:41 PM (GaqMa)
http://tinyurl.com/cb42pof
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 12:41 PM (ccXZP)
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 12:42 PM (NYki8)
Posted by: gastorgrab at December 01, 2012 12:42 PM (FX38i)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 12:43 PM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:42 PM (NYki
Nah, it sounds worse in text than it is honestly. We have a dynamic that works. You just have to get used to it
. That's what makes it so hard to explain to any 3rd parties.
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 12:45 PM (GaqMa)
http://tinyurl.com/cb42pof
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 04:41 PM (ccXZP)
See post 208. My only defense is I've never had a Smith, only Taurus (hush!) and Ruger.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:46 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Book at December 01, 2012 12:48 PM (rm8za)
Famous, iconic police revolver. Proven reliability. Today it is obsolete unless loaded to get every bit of useful power out of a .38. If all you had was a Model 10 and some hot hollowpoints, you wouldn't be that bad off.
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 12:48 PM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 12:49 PM (NYki8)
Posted by: Book at December 01, 2012 04:48 PM (rm8za)
This is a very good idea.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:50 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 12:53 PM (2CiZb)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 04:48 PM (6H6FZ)
Can you shoot a +P out of a Model 10? I know if you hot load some revolvers you will crack the frames (which tends to make bad things happen).
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:53 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Jake in ID at December 01, 2012 04:53 PM (2CiZb)
Cool, ain't it? 
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:54 PM (yh0zB)
1. All firearms are always loaded.
2. Never cover anything with the muzzle that you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on your target.
4. Always be sure of your target.
Jeff Cooper had it right.
Posted by: Alaska Paul at December 01, 2012 04:40 PM (CvA+Z)
Yep, but it seems like every firearms organization wants to re-invent the wheel. My favorites are the ones that try to explain away the first rule. It's easier just to state it that way and act accordingly.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 12:56 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette, still a Hobbit at December 01, 2012 04:49 PM (NYki
Apologies not needed! I know how easy it is to jump to conclusions by reading a shorted blog comment 
.
Consider my followup more like "internet track cleaning" in case my wife ever decides to google "tsrblke moron horde" ot see what I'm up to.
(There's sarcasm there, obviously. Mostly it's because I don't like leaving bad assumptions out there).
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 01:02 PM (GaqMa)
I don't know very much about guns, except how to use, clean and maintain the ones I have. If you gave me an empty frame and a box full of parts, at the end you'd have an empty frame, a box full of parts and a frustrated GnuBreed.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 01:02 PM (ccXZP)
Posted by: Country Singer at December 01, 2012 01:02 PM (92IJx)
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 05:02 PM (ccXZP)
It is not. The beating may commence on your order.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 01:03 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 01, 2012 05:02 PM (ccXZP)
Clarification...it is not FOR THE S and W. The revolvers I am familiar with have their firing pins built into the frame of the firearm and the hammer hits the firing pin.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 01:05 PM (yh0zB)
I'd pay good money for a webley in .45 LC.
Posted by: sven10077 at December 01, 2012 01:06 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:05 PM (yh0zB)
or rather, the hammer hits the transfer bar which hits the firing pin...
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 01:07 PM (yh0zB)
That is one of those: Can you? Yes. Should you? I would not. That model has been around since steel was not as good as today and who knows how much a used gun has been pushed?
A Model 10 made of modern steel would probably be OK with +P but it isn't a good idea. The best way to make that decision is to double check the latest research available (it is out there) and if it sounds safe, make sure your medical insurance is current, and try it. There are people who push the limits and there are people with all their fingers and two working eyes.
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 01:10 PM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:10 PM (6H6FZ)
That's probably good advice no matter what you are talking about.
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 01:12 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 05:12 PM (yh0zB)
To quote a friend of mine's mother upon hearing he was heading out to a friends farm some years back: "You have your insurance card right? Cool, call me when you're on your way home."
Posted by: tsrblke at December 01, 2012 01:15 PM (GaqMa)
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 01:17 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 01:17 PM (6H6FZ)
Posted by: SurferDoc at December 01, 2012 05:17 PM (6H6FZ)
She's still looking over your shoulder isn't she? lol
When I was still active duty my wife would tell me, in excruciating detail, how she would spend my SGLI (life insurance) if I should kill myself foolishly while out on cruise. At the time I was worth a little over a quarter of a million dollars dead (and not worth a damn thing otherwise).
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 01:21 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Cyrus at December 01, 2012 01:25 PM (BgIBZ)
Later roonz and roonettez!
Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at December 01, 2012 01:27 PM (yh0zB)
Posted by: Whiskey_Joe at December 01, 2012 01:28 PM (RIm0W)
Also, the revolver pictured in the post is a SW Victory Model from WWII. IOW it's a Model 10 with wood grips and a lanyard swivel. In .38 Special, unless it was made for the Brits, in which case it was chambered in 38/200.
---------------------------
Nope, it's a Model 1917 in .45 ACP. Look a little lower in the post, it's answered.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 01:50 PM (celt+)
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at December 01, 2012 02:04 PM (CjeA/)
Posted by: stace, L.I.B. at December 01, 2012 02:27 PM (m+UHL)
Late to the thread, but I bought a shotgun the other day. Tactical I might add. It had all the black parts so it must be bad.
I checked to see if it was loaded, and it just came out of a box from the store room.
I am going to have another drink now, nth of many, walk outside, and begin blamming away at things.
I love the secceeded States of America!!
Posted by: Andrew at December 01, 2012 02:29 PM (ksAzv)
Posted by: Bill H at December 01, 2012 02:47 PM (3sZO1)
Posted by: In the bunker at December 01, 2012 03:20 PM (R7H3g)
Posted by: EROWMER at December 01, 2012 03:39 PM (kxlCQ)
Posted by: DAve at December 01, 2012 03:48 PM (XDC0v)
That link in 255 is utter bullshit.
There will be no such gun ban. The Dems have no desire to lose the Senate in 2014.
Posted by: Taro Tsujimoto at December 01, 2012 05:32 PM (celt+)
Never point a gun at something you're not willing to kill.
Never shoot a gun if you don't know where the bullet will stop.
Treat every gun as if it's loaded.
When someone hands you a gun, the very first thing you do is check to see if it's loaded and make sure there isn't a round in the chamber.
Those are a few of the additional rules my dad drilled into me long before I even hit puberty.
Posted by: DC Zombie at December 01, 2012 06:02 PM (EZ3C3)
Posted by: DC Zombie at December 01, 2012 06:16 PM (EZ3C3)
Posted by: In the bunker at December 01, 2012 07:20 PM (R7H3g)
Thanks for that recommendation. I just ordered one. I didn't see these when researching handgun safe boxes last summer. Almost every one made had some major gripe by all the reviewers. This one seems to have met the minimum requirements, though.
Posted by: K~Bob channels Steevy at December 01, 2012 06:50 PM (j75Sd)
These lists have been around since before the AW Ban.
We're all on some list somewhere. I have a list, myself, so we're even.
Posted by: K~Bob channels Steevy at December 01, 2012 06:53 PM (j75Sd)
Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at December 01, 2012 07:17 PM (Wuzok)
Posted by: torabora at December 01, 2012 07:50 PM (zEsOk)
Posted by: torabora at December 01, 2012 07:55 PM (zEsOk)
Posted by: DC Zombie at December 01, 2012 08:47 PM (EZ3C3)
Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at December 01, 2012 08:55 PM (Wuzok)
Posted by: Judge Roy Bean at December 01, 2012 09:05 PM (Wuzok)
Posted by: scrimshaw bazooka at December 02, 2012 08:09 AM (Kflw4)
Posted by: Mad Monica at December 02, 2012 12:17 PM (DV6l/)
9The home in which I grew up had a nice gun cabinet, it was not in the main family room, it was in "Dad's room" which had all kinds of Dad stuff in it like pipes and copies of Argosy magazine. ...
Mmmmmm, Argosy Magazine! (high-five)
That picture didn't even remotely resemble a Webly, of which I've wanted one of their Victorian age .45's since about the age I learned to appreciate Argosy.
Posted by: Born Free at December 02, 2012 03:33 PM (jnJcf)
Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 02, 2012 06:58 PM (L4CWX)
Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 02, 2012 07:00 PM (L4CWX)
Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 02, 2012 07:30 PM (L4CWX)
Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 02, 2012 07:47 PM (L4CWX)
Posted by: 2nd Amendment Mother at December 02, 2012 08:03 PM (L4CWX)
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Posted by: minometer at December 01, 2012 09:58 AM (PwwAS)