July 04, 2012
— rdbrewer A round of Nobel Prizes, please. (The good kind, the top-shelf variety.)
For physicists, evidence for a new particle requires a "3-sigma" measurement, "corresponding to a 1-in-740 chance that a random fluke could explain the observations." A claim of a discovery requires a "5-sigma" measurement, "or a 1-in–3.5 million shot that the observations are due to chance." 5-sigma is the gold standard. One of the teams using the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, the ATLAS team, crossed the 5-sigma threshold, while the CMS team almost did with a finding exceeding 4.9-sigma. So we got us a particle.
This is somewhat surprising. People had been expecting a 4-sigma announcement today, so the news is big. Video of the announcement this morning. From Reuters:
Scientists at Europe's CERN research center have found a new subatomic particle, a basic building block of the universe, which appears to be the boson imagined and named half a century ago by theoretical physicist Peter Higgs."We have reached a milestone in our understanding of nature," CERN director general Rolf Heuer told a gathering of scientists and the world's media near Geneva on Wednesday.
"The discovery of a particle consistent with the Higgs boson opens the way to more detailed studies, requiring larger statistics, which will pin down the new particle's properties, and is likely to shed light on other mysteries of our universe."
Two independent studies of data produced by smashing proton particles together at CERN's Large Hadron Collider produced a convergent near-certainty on the existence of the new particle.
The Higgs boson proves the existence of the Higgs field--a field that permeates the entire universe and imbues elementary particles with mass through the Higgs mechanism. Here is a good video that explains all that. And more background from an older New York Times article.
In the video embedded below, CERN spokesman Prof. Joe Incandela explains the significance of the discovery and talks about what comes next.
Posted by: rdbrewer at
11:57 AM
| Comments (337)
Post contains 331 words, total size 3 kb.
Posted by: eureka! at July 04, 2012 12:03 PM (xCpfo)
Posted by: buzzion at July 04, 2012 12:05 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: Bon Qui Qui at July 04, 2012 12:09 PM (Nq0e3)
Posted by: CJ Roberts at July 04, 2012 12:09 PM (ejmiE)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2012 12:10 PM (ejmiE)
I hate to go all D e r b y s h i r e* on you folks, but savor this one.
Given the rate at which Western Civilization is de-evolving, this might be the last big one for a while.
*Recently he had asked - rhetorically - whether anyone thought that there was a realistic chance that the USA would ever make it back to the moon.
[And the only realistic answer would be: Certainly not, unless our demographics change, and change soon.]
Posted by: at July 04, 2012 12:12 PM (EyVl3)
Posted by: Bouncing Beatnik at July 04, 2012 12:12 PM (zKsj0)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 12:13 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 12:13 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Bon Qui Qui at July 04, 2012 12:15 PM (Nq0e3)
I think that God must be amused....when we discover another clue that He has put there for us to find.
While this is a great discovery, I just hope that they don't figure out a way to use this for a new weapon.
Posted by: wheatie at July 04, 2012 12:17 PM (MbB0O)
Has anyone theorized the existence of anything smaller than this particle? If not, it's only a matter of time before someone does. IMHO, infinity goes in both directions.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 12:18 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at July 04, 2012 12:20 PM (wfSF5)
Did they capture it in a containment system so it could be flown up in a helicopter above Rome?
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 04:13 PM (YdQQY)
Heh, did you know that for every square meter of drag, a body is slowed down blah, blah, blah...
Posted by: ErikW at July 04, 2012 12:23 PM (Dam08)
Have a Happy Independence Day while you can...
Posted by: baldilocks at July 04, 2012 12:24 PM (6kWFm)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 12:24 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 12:26 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Al Gorey at July 04, 2012 12:28 PM (HI6wa)
Posted by: phoenixgirl, team dagny at July 04, 2012 12:29 PM (eXOTR)
Posted by: DAve at July 04, 2012 12:30 PM (h+/7G)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2012 12:30 PM (ejmiE)
Posted by: A cynical but rarely angry Adriane at July 04, 2012 12:32 PM (qmMAj)
Posted by: Kasper Hauser at July 04, 2012 12:33 PM (YyVZT)
Posted by: Nancy P Higgenbozun at July 04, 2012 12:33 PM (0It32)
Posted by: Kasper Hauser at July 04, 2012 12:34 PM (YyVZT)
Posted by: Ninjaneer at July 04, 2012 12:36 PM (zq8Mf)
Does this mean the God Particle is Catholic?
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 12:38 PM (MMC8r)
Give it 6 months for them to retract the discovery. You know, like those faster than light particles.
Posted by: buzzion at July 04, 2012 04:05 PM (GULKT)
This.
Science has become just as corrupt as politics.
Posted by: ErikW at July 04, 2012 12:38 PM (Dam08)
Posted by: Ostral B Heretic at July 04, 2012 12:40 PM (+Myj9)
Posted by: rdbrewer at July 04, 2012 12:40 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: King Barry the Cosmic at July 04, 2012 12:41 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 04, 2012 12:43 PM (e0tGN)
The Higgs boson proves the existence of the Higgs field--a field that permeates the entire universe and imparts the quality of mass
Silly, it surrounds us and permeates us. It controls us, but it also follows our command. It binds the universe together.
It's the Force. Miticlorians, to be precise.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 12:43 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Mike Mann at July 04, 2012 12:44 PM (ICwOo)
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 12:44 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Ninjaneer at July 04, 2012 12:44 PM (zq8Mf)
Posted by: Scobface at July 04, 2012 12:45 PM (IoNBC)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 04:43 PM
Just like my administration.
Posted by: King Barry I at July 04, 2012 12:45 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: JDTAY at July 04, 2012 12:45 PM (a0nis)
the good thing is that coffee and chocolate now prevent cancer whereas before they caused it. your 4th bbq is still unsafe however, until the enviros and nannies move onto something else.
under no circumstances drink more that 16 ounces of soda. beer is ok.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 04, 2012 12:46 PM (gnmZI)
Posted by: Al Bore's second chacra at July 04, 2012 12:47 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: JDTAY at July 04, 2012 04:45 PM
Did someone say reservations?
Posted by: Lizzie Jack Warren at July 04, 2012 12:48 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 12:48 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: Scobface at July 04, 2012 12:49 PM (IoNBC)
Posted by: SamIam at July 04, 2012 12:49 PM (VDpzM)
Posted by: Honey Badger Video Narrator Guy at July 04, 2012 12:49 PM (p9yIY)
Believe it or not the EPA has talked about regulating BBQ grills and lawn mowers for CO2 emissions.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 12:49 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: kbdabear at July 04, 2012 12:50 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: Al Sharpton at July 04, 2012 12:50 PM (SI8HJ)
I wish I understood this stuff, but I don't. I'm not prepared to dismiss it, though.
Posted by: Scobface at July 04, 2012 04:45 PM (IoNBC)
You don't really need to. What is a near certainty?
Is it certain? Or is it just close enough?
Is it like a gimme in golf? The ball didn't actually go into the hole but it looked like it could've. But it didn't.
It's all bullshit.
Posted by: ErikW at July 04, 2012 12:50 PM (Dam08)
Posted by: Scobface at July 04, 2012 12:50 PM (IoNBC)
Posted by: Cold Fusion Hoaxes at July 04, 2012 12:51 PM (jfWE9)
President Romney, tear down this agency.
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 12:51 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 12:51 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at July 04, 2012 12:51 PM (0xqzf)
That sciencey dude in the video forgot to mention one thing: This is not to be confused with the Bozon, the international standard unit of stupidity.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 12:51 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 12:53 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 04:51 PM (d0Tfm)
Also not to be confused with the Riggs-Boron which is used to kill cockroaches and nuclear reactions.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 12:53 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Tami at July 04, 2012 12:54 PM (X6akg)
the force with you may be
Posted by: Yoda (needs govt funding) at July 04, 2012 12:54 PM (gnmZI)
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 12:55 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: Preezy Obama at July 04, 2012 12:55 PM (SI8HJ)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 12:55 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 12:55 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 12:57 PM (MMC8r)
That creates the old phenomena described as the heat of the meat and the angle of the dangle.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 12:57 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Scobface at July 04, 2012 12:58 PM (IoNBC)
Posted by: toby928© at July 04, 2012 12:59 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 04:57 PM (MMC8r)
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Oh, yeah. Like that'll explain my scrotal itch.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 12:59 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at July 04, 2012 01:00 PM (Mrdk1)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 01:00 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 01:00 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 04:57 PM
Mark Sanchez is reportedly no longer dating Kate Upton and is now linked to Eva Longoria
His decision making in women isn't any better than his decisions when he's dropping back to pass
Posted by: kbdabear at July 04, 2012 01:00 PM (Y+DPZ)
Posted by: A. at July 04, 2012 01:01 PM (cAH9P)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 01:01 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Scobface at July 04, 2012 01:02 PM (IoNBC)
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at July 04, 2012 01:02 PM (0xqzf)
Posted by: Count de Monet at July 04, 2012 01:03 PM (BAS5M)
Posted by: Nancy Pelosi, Rocket Surgeon at July 04, 2012 01:04 PM (p9yIY)
Posted by: rickl at July 04, 2012 01:04 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: DaveA at July 04, 2012 01:04 PM (864A5)
If Godwin's Law describes degenerating to Hitler, is it now Upton's law for discussion to bouncy tits?
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 01:04 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Underground Vulgarian at July 04, 2012 01:04 PM (SI8HJ)
Posted by: BurtTC at July 04, 2012 01:05 PM (2pG7H)
Posted by: The Political Hat at July 04, 2012 01:05 PM (XYqoq)
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 01:06 PM (3VM0k)
Unfortunately, I'm not equipped to evaluate the claim that its byproducts have, in fact, been observed.
Me neither, but I still think real, true, honest science is pretty kewl.
My biggest source of curiosity is what, exactly, fills up the space between electrons and the nucleus of atoms. Ever since I saw that panel of scientists on the NASA channel discussing this a few years ago, I haven't been able to scratch that particular itch, IYKWIM. I doubt it's a vacuum, and the folks on the panel said they starting plugging numbers into some program they had and consistently got an absurdly large number they shouldn't have gotten.
I thought they called it "Dark Matter," but I'm not sure what they call that these days. It seems that term refers to something else entirely. If any of you sciency-type Morons knows, you can put me to some knowledge.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 01:06 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Igor and Grichka Bogdanov at July 04, 2012 01:07 PM (5JmKY)
Posted by: Lace Wigs at July 04, 2012 01:07 PM (RLTt1)
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 01:07 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Underground Vulgarian at July 04, 2012 01:08 PM (SI8HJ)
Posted by: Santa Sherriff Joe Biden at July 04, 2012 01:09 PM (znvbE)
Crimeny! They've released the Higgs Boson Derecho! Aieeeee!
Posted by: mrp at July 04, 2012 01:09 PM (HjPtV)
It has been a long time since I got out of school but the model of it then was an electron "cloud" as in there really was not space as we think of it. When you add in the other weird shit such as the electrons flashing in and out of our universe it gets even more out there.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 01:10 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 05:06 PM (d0Tfm)
--------------------------------------------
Chocolate pudding?
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 01:10 PM (3VM0k)
They have created small black holes which are slowing down the fabric of time. "They" are determined to keep November as far away as possible.
Posted by: yerro at July 04, 2012 01:12 PM (S/y/t)
****
Upton's Law deserves a genuine definition of its own. It has become the ultimate SQUIRREL!
Where are the poets when you need them?
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 04, 2012 01:12 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: Charlie Gibson at July 04, 2012 01:13 PM (Mrdk1)
Is the nuclear force still a theory? The thing that supposedly keeps the neutrons and protons clumped together rather than flying off in random directions.
HS Chemistry was 35 years ago so sue me.
Posted by: Count de Monet at July 04, 2012 01:13 PM (BAS5M)
Posted by: Ian S. at July 04, 2012 01:15 PM (tqwMN)
Posted by: Upton's Law at July 04, 2012 01:16 PM (p9yIY)
The last I heard strong force and weak force theory was still going strong (not a pun)
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 01:16 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Dr. Clydement Chainge at July 04, 2012 01:17 PM (Usk3+)
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 05:10 PM (YdQQY)
----------------------------------------------
This is the part of all this sub-atomic study that fascinates me the most. It's the basis of some scientists' belief of parallel universes. My imagination just goes bonkers with that.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 01:18 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 01:21 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: s☺mej☼e at July 04, 2012 01:21 PM (HNn1q)
Consider the models used for AGW predictions. None of them has ever passed the simple test of predicting the climate for known periods in the past. If you cannot verify against known reality, how can you claim to predict futures effects?
Posted by: epobirs at July 04, 2012 01:23 PM (kcfmt)
Got a link?
That's the rub. Every time I search for "Dark Matter" on this Intarwebz thingy, I can't find that definition of what those folks were talking about. I remember that nuclear force theory too, but this seems to be something that's the same thing, only different.
Like butterscotch pudding. Which, for the record, I'd happily apply to Kate Upton's bosons repeatedly and vigorously.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 01:23 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Codec717 at July 04, 2012 01:23 PM (bMlVI)
Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at July 04, 2012 01:24 PM (xUI0P)
Consider the models used for AGW predictions. None of them has ever passed the simple test of predicting the climate for known periods in the past. If you cannot verify against known reality, how can you claim to predict futures effects?
Posted by: epobirs at July 04, 2012 05:23 PM (kcfmt)
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So what your saying is what someone upthread has already mentioned. This is only just a plea for more money.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 01:26 PM (3VM0k)
Someone made the mistake of tweeting "rapetent" and received this correction from an OWSer:
It would be rape tent, not rapetent, asshole. #Occupy is intellectual & educated, unlike know-nothings of GOP base
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 04, 2012 01:26 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 05:23 PM (d0Tfm)
Dark matter is something else entirely. Is "quantum foam" the term you're looking for?
Posted by: somebody else, not me at July 04, 2012 01:28 PM (nZvGM)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 04, 2012 01:28 PM (gnmZI)
It's the basis of some scientists' belief of parallel universes.
Like the sciency guy in the vid above refers to. This stuff is fascinating to me, too.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 01:28 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: VW Zao at July 04, 2012 01:30 PM (vWZa0)
It would be rape tent, not rapetent, asshole. #Occupy is intellectual educated, unlike know-nothings of GOP base
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 04, 2012 05:26 PM (piMMO)
-----------------------------------------------
I would've expected them to say it was the non-consentual sex tent.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 01:31 PM (3VM0k)
I only wore the dress once as a college prank. Can't you people just drop it?
Posted by: infinity at July 04, 2012 01:31 PM (nrW1y)
Posted by: somebody else, not me at July 04, 2012 05:28 PM (nZvGM)
Hmmm. Quantum foam, Kate Upton's bosons, large hadrons, faster-then-light particles, ... there's a dirty joke in there somewhere just screaming to be let out.
Posted by: Count de Monet at July 04, 2012 01:31 PM (BAS5M)
***
I move for submission to the great book of Urban Dictionary.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 04, 2012 01:32 PM (piMMO)
@114-My biggest source of curiosity is what, exactly, fills up the space between electrons and the nucleus of atoms.
********************
I think it is 'potential', as in "That boy is full of potential!"
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 04, 2012 01:35 PM (hgSh3)
Posted by: Buffalobob at July 04, 2012 01:35 PM (gTJfJ)
Dark matter is something else entirely. Is "quantum foam" the term you're looking for?
It may be. I'll see what I can find when I search for that term, which'll be sometime later on.
I will not, however, use that term in the same sentence with Kate Upton's Bosons. Even I have standards, low though they may be.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 01:37 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Buffalobob at July 04, 2012 05:35 PM (gTJfJ)
That would be the Obama Particle, my good man.
Posted by: Barack Obama at July 04, 2012 01:37 PM (p9yIY)
I only wore the dress once as a college prank. Can't you people just drop it?
Posted by: infinity at July 04, 2012 05:31 PM (nrW1y)
We would but it just loops right back around into our hands.
Posted by: buzzion at July 04, 2012 01:38 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 04, 2012 05:35 PM (hgSh3)
---------------------------------------------
Every OWSer parent's fruitless dream.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 01:38 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: Politifact at July 04, 2012 01:42 PM (QuN6H)
Posted by: sandy fluke at July 04, 2012 01:43 PM (nrW1y)
Posted by: Fox2! at July 04, 2012 01:45 PM (OCBPC)
The one with no tuck rule? Man, that would be sweet.
Posted by: Rich Gannon at July 04, 2012 01:45 PM (HtUdo)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 04, 2012 01:45 PM (hgSh3)
Could someone tell me what usefulness this has? Because all I find it to be is a $3B check on some 50 year old problem. In the very least, a shining example of the broken window fallacy. $3B was spent, sure, but it didn't NEED to be spent and it could have been spent being beneficial to everyone, not just Academia.
Posted by: Politifact at July 04, 2012 05:42 PM (QuN6H)
-------------------------------------------
Ya' damn right. I need to take another vacation.
Posted by: Moochelle O at July 04, 2012 01:47 PM (3VM0k)
A grant request based on demonstrable results is surely better than the opposite?
I've seen pleas based on the utter lack of any meaningful data being interesting in that there should have been at least some noise to examine and dismiss. It brings back the old Wolfgang Pauli quote about a paper being so bad it wasn't even wrong. Its assertions were so lacking in ties to anything testable that it couldn't be considered science.
Posted by: epobirs at July 04, 2012 01:47 PM (kcfmt)
Posted by: Yip in Texas at July 04, 2012 01:51 PM (Mrdk1)
A grant request based on demonstrable results is surely better than the opposite?
I've seen pleas based on the utter lack of any meaningful data being interesting in that there should have been at least some noise to examine and dismiss. It brings back the old Wolfgang Pauli quote about a paper being so bad it wasn't even wrong. Its assertions were so lacking in ties to anything testable that it couldn't be considered science.
Posted by: epobirs at July 04, 2012 05:47 PM (kcfmt)
That's the basis of all government funding. This project isn't working, we need more money!
Posted by: buzzion at July 04, 2012 01:51 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2012 01:51 PM (ejmiE)
What more useful knowledge than an understanding of the basis of reality itself? That either has value to you or it doesn't.
If you want to make a small government argument about such research, that is fine. I'd be all for giving up all government funding of scientific research as part of the same legislation that eliminated all entitlements. But if it's this or a dozen bridges to nowhere, I'll favor this.
Posted by: epobirs at July 04, 2012 01:52 PM (kcfmt)
Posted by: epobirs at July 04, 2012 05:47 PM (kcfmt)
---------------------------------------------
When I read this, East Anglia came to mind.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 01:52 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2012 01:54 PM (ejmiE)
As of this announcement, anyone still believing in a supreme being or individual sovereignty officially drags his knuckles. It's not even political any more; it's just childish. Nya-nya, your worldview's been superceded.
They succeeded in converting me to agnosticism. I'm totally agnostic to whatever busy little particles and parallel all-gay universes that have no perceivable effect on how my crops grow, or how my car runs. A god-damned pox on all of them. And I want my warheads back, too.
Posted by: comatus at July 04, 2012 01:57 PM (ZOlM3)
Much of the useful stuff we have today can be traced back to "useless" experiments.
----------------------------------------------
....or spilled test tubes.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 01:57 PM (3VM0k)
Dark matter also has mass and also is affected by gravity, but it does not interact with electromagnetic energy. That's why we call it dark.
Why do we say dark matter exists in the first place? Well, when we measure the rotation rate of galaxies we find they are spinning too fast for the accounted for baryonic matter to hold them together. So, there is matter there, contributing to the galaxy's gravity, that is not baryonic matter.
What dark matter actually is is unknown.
Of course its also entirely possible that our understanding of the Universe is flawed and something in the calculations is incorrect or missing entirely. And if we were to discover that the need to for dark matter to balance the equation disappears. I think many scientists would love to be the ones to discover this and even those that use Dark Matter would acknowledge that possibility. Its just that based on our current understanding we can't eliminate the need for the theory or find verifiable evidence for it being there.
Posted by: buzzion at July 04, 2012 01:58 PM (GULKT)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 04, 2012 02:00 PM (rktaC)
Posted by: seamrog at July 04, 2012 02:01 PM (mEwDP)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2012 02:01 PM (ejmiE)
Posted by: buzzion at July 04, 2012 05:58 PM (GULKT)
---------------------------------------------
My theory? This universe is just a shred of carrot in God's jello salad.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 02:02 PM (3VM0k)
My theory?This universe is just a shred of carrot in God's jello salad.
Oh, geez, the Lutherans were right.
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 02:03 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 04, 2012 06:00 PM (rktaC)
---------------------------------------
Yup. That's what all my girlfriends used to say too.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 02:04 PM (3VM0k)
Why do we say dark matter exists in the first place? Well, when we measure the rotation rate of galaxies we find they are spinning too fast for the accounted for baryonic matter to hold them together. So, there is matter there, contributing to the galaxy's gravity, that is not baryonic matter.
Aha! Now I see why I was thinking I was getting the wrong term to search for. It appears to me that a very large example of dark matter might be necessary to observe something so ethereal. I wasn't looking at the planetary example at all, thinking the two were not connected.
Thanks, eman. This tends to lend credence to a theory I read about a few years ago that posited that gravity was a compressive force, not an attractive one.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 02:04 PM (d0Tfm)
It's easy to dismiss dark matter.
Just toss out the Theory of Gravity.
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2012 06:01 PM (ejmiE)
Yeah, too bad that wasn't what I was doing.
Posted by: buzzion at July 04, 2012 02:04 PM (GULKT)
My theory?This universe is just a shred of carrot in God's jello salad.<><<
God isn't a Lutheran, you goddamn communist heathen.
Posted by: Igor and Grichka Bogdanov at July 04, 2012 02:06 PM (5JmKY)
Posted by: Hal Burton at July 04, 2012 02:06 PM (iYvMQ)
Posted by: Hal Burton at July 04, 2012 02:07 PM (iYvMQ)
Posted by: Man in Black at July 04, 2012 02:08 PM (QupBk)
> rimshot <
Posted by: Arms Merchant at July 04, 2012 02:09 PM (+XVQe)
The particle is not unusually small. in fact, it's rather massive.
Yeah, I saw that when I finally looked at the links to the background info rd had in the post on the Higgs Field. They aren't as small as I thought they were.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 02:10 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Hal Burton at July 04, 2012 06:06 PM (iYvMQ)
-------------------------------------------------
Isn't that kind of what Roberts said when he "found" the tax in Ocare?
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 02:11 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: YeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEHawwwwwwwwwwwwww at July 04, 2012 02:11 PM (N8ZZU)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, philosophical physicist at July 04, 2012 02:13 PM (hgSh3)
Posted by: steevy at July 04, 2012 02:14 PM (Xb3hu)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, philosophical physicist at July 04, 2012 06:13 PM (hgSh3)
---
About fitty.
Posted by: Hal Burton at July 04, 2012 02:17 PM (iYvMQ)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, philosophical physicist at July 04, 2012 02:18 PM (hgSh3)
Posted by: Higgs Bosun Particles at July 04, 2012 02:18 PM (7+pP9)
Posted by: Barky O, at July 04, 2012 02:18 PM (vWZa0)
Posted by: seamrog at July 04, 2012 06:16 PM (mEwDP)
-----
Its search phrase, and he's my personal filter on breaking scientific news that could later turn out to be BS.
Posted by: Hal Burton at July 04, 2012 02:19 PM (iYvMQ)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 04, 2012 02:19 PM (r4wIV)
This thread is slowing time.
Then I'll do my patented "kill the thread" thingy and post an appropriate song:
Klaatu's "Litte Neutrino."http://tinyurl.com/6wv6jgg
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 02:20 PM (d0Tfm)
Silliness.
A greater understanding of the natural does no to preclude the supernatural. By definition one is external to the other. Does your acquiring a knowledge of the tools and techniques cause you to alter your belief in carpenters or plumbers, even if you have proof of the existence of those who made the building and pipeworks within long before your own existence? Or simply did the work while you weren't looking?
The entirety of the universe as we know it traces to these particles, so yes, they have immense effect on how your crops grow or your car runs. A minor change int he behavior of these particles produces a radically different universe with different rules. It takes only a tiny change at that level to produce a universe in which the chemical basis of life or internal combustion engines doesn't exist.
Human formed complex moral philosophies long before Newton and continued to do so in ignorance of Newton's work. In fact, it is the evolution of those philosophies that made it possible for Newton and others in the West to do their work and advance our comprehension of reality while many of comparable ability in the East were suppressed or murdered for going against the orthodoxy.
Considering that Newton and his predecessor did quite a lot to upset bourgeois morals in their day, I doubt they'd be greatly upset that later generation built upon, expanded, and at even contradicted their findings. Do you think a young Isaac Newton transported to our time would be incapable of absorbing all that has been learned since his time, given a few years to study, and possibly even contributing anew? Or that he would refuse to accept newer knowledge gained with tools that were complete unknown in his time?
In Newton's time there were few capable of seeing the practical applications of his work. Orbital mechanics is a rather airy subject for the average person even today. But it has shaped our world none the less. Even Newton wasn't especially big on the practical applications. The work for which he is best known took up a far smaller portion of his life than his time devoted to alchemy.
Posted by: epobirs at July 04, 2012 02:20 PM (kcfmt)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 06:16 PM (MMC8r)
-------------------------------------------
I know. If it gets any slower, we'll be able to play hacky sack with the bosons particle.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 02:21 PM (3VM0k)
Kids. They never write, they never call...
Posted by: God at July 04, 2012 02:21 PM (MMC8r)
Don't worry, by tomorrow the WH will be taking credit for the discovery because they threw money at it somehow.
Obama is glad to have done his part, but wants to give credit where credit is due.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at July 04, 2012 02:22 PM (Qxdfp)
Posted by: tcn at July 04, 2012 02:22 PM (eFcVx)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 02:22 PM (d0Tfm)
who would win ?
Posted by: seamrog at July 04, 2012 06:21 PM (mEwDP)
ME! 
Posted by: tcn at July 04, 2012 02:22 PM (eFcVx)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 06:16 PM (MMC8r)
-------------------------------------------
I know. If it gets any slower, we'll be able to play hacky sack with the bosons particle.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 06:21 PM (3VM0k)
-------------------------------------------
If this thread and time gets any slower, it'll look like Kate Uptons nipples are standing still.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 02:23 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: Professor Hank Johnson at July 04, 2012 02:23 PM (iYvMQ)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 04, 2012 02:25 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Man in Black at July 04, 2012 02:25 PM (QupBk)
Of course, they'll tell you for sure this disproves I exist.
Kids. They never write, they never call...
Au contraire, Dad. Some of us believe it is proof.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 02:28 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 04, 2012 02:28 PM (j1gX1)
Posted by: CAC at July 04, 2012 02:30 PM (0X+iz)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 02:30 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: The Political Hat at July 04, 2012 02:31 PM (XYqoq)
Joe Incandela's overblown, dare I say giddy, celebration of this "discovery" is making our side look bad. Perhaps if we were to moderate it a bit to accomodate the skeptics we could reach concensus.
Posted by: conCERN troll at July 04, 2012 02:32 PM (vSKcB)
A Higgs boson is like a silent fart in an elevator. You can detect evidence that it is there, but you can't really see it or measure it. And it does distort time and space. The only difference is that no one claims credit for it.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 04, 2012 02:33 PM (hgSh3)
There is one thing in the universe with a greater gravitational attraction than a black hole.
Posted by: Kate Upton's Boson at July 04, 2012 02:33 PM (p18em)
You assholes had the Nesting Spheres worked out to a fare-thee-well, too, right up until you turned out to be barking up the wrong tree. The math that went into that one was pretty damned inspiring, except it was wrong. Really embarrassed the grant-writers of Vatican Science.
Your theory has very few real-world applications, and a host of dead-god "theological implications." And it's those implications you're after.
Posted by: comatus at July 04, 2012 02:33 PM (ZOlM3)
Posted by: The Political Hat at July 04, 2012 02:33 PM (XYqoq)
Posted by: garrett at July 04, 2012 02:33 PM (bg5nS)
The entirety of the universe as we know it traces to these particles, so yes, they have immense effect on how your crops grow or your car runs. A minor change int he behavior of these particles produces a radically different universe with different rules. It takes only a tiny change at that level to produce a universe in which the chemical basis of life or internal combustion engines doesn't exist.
---------------------------------------------------
Damn! That particle they found? They need to put it back.
Posted by: Soona at July 04, 2012 02:35 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: CAC at July 04, 2012 02:36 PM (0X+iz)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 04, 2012 02:36 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at July 04, 2012 02:37 PM (Qhz+d)
Posted by: chemjeff on the phone at July 04, 2012 02:37 PM (YY3YL)
Posted by: CAC at July 04, 2012 02:38 PM (0X+iz)
Newton also wrote on Judaeo-Christian prophecy, whose decipherment was essential, he thought, to the understanding of God. His book on the subject, which was reprinted well into the Victorian Age, represented lifelong study. Its message was that Christianity went astray in the 4th century AD, when the first Council of Nicaea propounded erroneous doctrines of the nature of Christ.
he full extent of Newton's unorthodoxy was recognized only in the present century: but although a critic of accepted Trinitarian dogmas and the Council of Nicaea, he possessed a deep religious sense, venerated the Bible and accepted its account of creation. In late editions of his scientific works he expressed a strong sense of God's providential role in nature.
http://www.newton.ac.uk/newtlife.html
Posted by: Arms Merchant at July 04, 2012 02:38 PM (+XVQe)
Posted by: chemjeff on the phone at July 04, 2012 02:39 PM (YY3YL)
how the fuck can it "bounce back" off a black hole?
Posted by: CAC at July 04, 2012 06:30 PM (0X+iz)
----------------------------------------------
You obviously don't know anything about "bounce-back" theory.
Posted by: Kate Upton at July 04, 2012 02:39 PM (3VM0k)
Posted by: Climate Scientists at July 04, 2012 02:40 PM (FcR7P)
How do I get an invitation?
Posted by: beancounter at July 04, 2012 02:41 PM (p18em)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 04, 2012 02:41 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Barack Obama, Lord of Science at July 04, 2012 02:43 PM (FcR7P)
@248 People use the word "astronomical" a lot with reference to scale, but if you grow up as a human on Earth, it's difficult to imagine anything that makes your entire frame of reference so small it's practically invisible.
**************
So, does that mean there are some on this thread who did not grow up as a human on Earth?
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 04, 2012 02:44 PM (hgSh3)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 04, 2012 02:47 PM (r4wIV)
Posted by: Schrodinger's Kitteh at July 04, 2012 02:48 PM (YY3YL)
Posted by: Barry's real birth certificate at July 04, 2012 02:48 PM (+DaAO)
I'm still waiting for them to develop a time machine so I can split.
How about a slightly used Delorean?
Posted by: Emmet Brown Ph.d at July 04, 2012 02:50 PM (PEwU1)
Posted by: Barack Obama, Science Genius at July 04, 2012 02:50 PM (YY3YL)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 02:52 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: wierd flunky at July 04, 2012 02:53 PM (tlhtD)
I've already added it to my Presidential bio and my BFF John is writing both opinions (again).
Posted by: Barry <3 Johnny at July 04, 2012 02:53 PM (HtUdo)
Posted by: liz warren at July 04, 2012 02:53 PM (BhXWJ)
Posted by: Barack Obama, Science Genius at July 04, 2012 02:53 PM (YY3YL)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 04, 2012 02:56 PM (hgSh3)
Posted by: CDR M at July 04, 2012 02:57 PM (EFzYw)
Posted by: Ben Bernanke at July 04, 2012 02:58 PM (ccXZP)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 04, 2012 02:58 PM (gnmZI)
US Ambassador to Kenya Resigns After Threatening to Shoot Staff in the Head
"Mr Gration repeatedly engaged in battles with employees and, according to a report by Foreign Policy, threatened at one point to “shoot them in the head” if they did not comply."
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at July 04, 2012 02:59 PM (famk3)
This Higgs Boson thing is all hype so they can start selling them for $23 each in the CERN Gift Shop.
The particle itself is only $23, but the thingy that holds it is really, really expensive...big, too.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 02:59 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: CERN at July 04, 2012 03:01 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: CDR M at July 04, 2012 03:01 PM (EFzYw)
Posted by: Non-sciency moronette at July 04, 2012 03:01 PM (qxsyW)
The particle itself is only $23, but the thingy that holds it is really, really expensive...big, too.
As a tangential aside, I fucking hate Build-a-Bear.
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 03:04 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 04, 2012 03:06 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Professor SCoaMF at July 04, 2012 03:07 PM (iYvMQ)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 04, 2012 03:08 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: chemjeff on the phone at July 04, 2012 03:10 PM (YY3YL)
For $2.00 I can store it and read later.
Posted by: Vic at July 04, 2012 03:10 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Golan Globus at July 04, 2012 03:12 PM (/1U3u)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 04, 2012 03:13 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Peaches at July 04, 2012 03:13 PM (kpCLl)
Posted by: CJ Roberts at July 04, 2012 03:14 PM (0d0K7)
Looks like a good night for the neighborhood fireworks here, too, of which there is usually quite a lot. Had a good shower a couple of hours ago, a good thing since there are many pine trees around Casa Backwardio, and hence, lots of pine straw.
Been a lazy day, was supposed to play a private party over on the coast, but it got cancelled due to a medical emergency. Hope all's well with them.
It's time to make war noises to celebrate our Independence. Whoever said that war never solved anything doesn't recognize that that's what birthed this wonderful nation of ours, and may blow me. We are a nation of asskickers, and the sooner we get back around to doing that again, the better off we'll be.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 03:15 PM (d0Tfm)
Jebus. You may have all seen this already, but it 'splains why people in "Skunk" Napolitano's office thought she was going to resign a couple weeks ago...
Posted by: RushBabe at July 04, 2012 03:16 PM (qxsyW)
Posted by: chemjeff on the phone at July 04, 2012 03:19 PM (YY3YL)
Posted by: Fritz at July 04, 2012 03:21 PM (02fNe)
Posted by: teej at July 04, 2012 03:21 PM (ETWo2)
As you may know, a gaggle of ridiculous Swiss and French "scientists" (oh, please) claim to have confirmed the Higgs Boson.
Yeah right. Don't believe those foreign bastards with funny sounding names, and don't, I repeat, don't send them any cash, they'll just waste it on foie gras and heavy Swiss cheese casseroles.
Instead, send your cash to me along with your birthday, wedding, confirmation, and bar mitzvah money.
Posted by: Barack Obama at July 04, 2012 03:24 PM (Qhz+d)
I got one for being me, dammit
Posted by: Barack Obama at July 04, 2012 03:27 PM (Yhu4q)
Was Jared Loughner a member of a Messican death cult? Hint: He's got teh crazy eyes. Gabby Giffords was a protege of Rahmbo?
Posted by: RushBabe at July 04, 2012 03:27 PM (qxsyW)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at July 04, 2012 03:28 PM (Gw2RW)
Posted by: wierd flunky at July 04, 2012 03:29 PM (tlhtD)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at July 04, 2012 03:32 PM (Gw2RW)
Posted by: Albie Damned at July 04, 2012 03:32 PM (Yhu4q)
Posted by: blogfworce one at July 04, 2012 03:34 PM (wJ75s)
Posted by: wierd flunky at July 04, 2012 07:29 PM (tlhtD)
Now all you have to do is get a PhD in physics, then. Should be easy, right? Seriously, morons, do not confuse what we see every day from the climatists with the actual serious intellectual work being done in the true "hard" sciences (in this case, "hard" refers to those such as chemistry, physics, etc. which require rigorous analysis and repeatable results, unlike the "soft" sciences such as climate research or medecine, or the completely non-scientific pursuits in the social "sciences").
Posted by: StPatrick_TN at July 04, 2012 03:34 PM (lJJMb)
Posted by: nickless at July 04, 2012 03:35 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: teej at July 04, 2012 03:35 PM (9ek7+)
"Infinity goes in both directions."
Posted by: teej at July 04, 2012 07:21 PM (ETWo2)
Left and right as well I like the IPL G Coupe.
Posted by: YIKES! at July 04, 2012 03:36 PM (1e9m1)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at July 04, 2012 03:37 PM (Gw2RW)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 04, 2012 03:37 PM (d0Tfm)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 04, 2012 03:38 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: chemjeff on the phone at July 04, 2012 03:40 PM (YY3YL)
Posted by: Sonnyspats at July 04, 2012 03:42 PM (Qr9Rc)
Posted by: wierd flunky at July 04, 2012 03:42 PM (tlhtD)
Posted by: teej at July 04, 2012 03:44 PM (WY3bD)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 04, 2012 03:45 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: jimi ray at July 04, 2012 03:47 PM (79EF9)
Posted by: Stale nerd at July 04, 2012 03:49 PM (/1U3u)
http://fxn.ws/LPFuMN
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at July 04, 2012 03:50 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: teej at July 04, 2012 03:57 PM (RM1gx)
They have not established any of the properties of this inferred object they claim to have discovered><<<<<<
Like the clitoris.
Posted by: Igor and Grichka Bogdanov at July 04, 2012 03:57 PM (5JmKY)
Posted by: eman at July 04, 2012 04:02 PM (ejmiE)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 04, 2012 04:06 PM (Rhie+)
I like my sigmas with at least a 6. Lets' par-tay, big fella
Posted by: Tri-Delta pledge drunk on wine coolers at July 04, 2012 04:07 PM (Yhu4q)
Posted by: jimi ray at July 04, 2012 04:15 PM (79EF9)
Posted by: Bill D. Cat at July 04, 2012 04:29 PM (Gw2RW)
Posted by: Zombie Dali at July 04, 2012 04:31 PM (C8mVl)
"Whoever said that war never solved anything doesn't recognize that that's what birthed this wonderful nation of ours, and may blow me."
You might get an argument from the Nazis and Japanese warlords.
Posted by: Gary Rosen at July 04, 2012 04:33 PM (Kz60W)
Posted by: enter sandman, redacted at July 04, 2012 04:37 PM (zxaA2)
Posted by: Purp (@PurpAv) at July 04, 2012 04:44 PM (6u8/+)
Posted by: tom's large hardon collider at July 04, 2012 05:12 PM (cupkC)
Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at July 04, 2012 07:26 PM (MNWe/)
The bad news is, he gets to vote but the good news is, that increasingly doesn't matter.
Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at July 04, 2012 08:46 PM (QTHTd)
Posted by: Santa Sherriff Joe Biden at July 05, 2012 02:29 AM (xLbGM)
Posted by: Chas at July 05, 2012 12:47 PM (/+DNm)
Isn't observing the evidence for something (or Someone) important we can't see, how we usually experience God?
I like science. It is very like religion. And both turn out to be very useful in real life.
Posted by: petunia at July 05, 2012 08:44 PM (hgrmi)
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Posted by: Charlie Gibson at July 04, 2012 12:01 PM (Mrdk1)