1 How about this slap down.

http://tinyurl.com/8yvnlu6

2 Most of the Tea Party was mad because they thought they would have their social security cut, and not that they wanted government off their backs.

3 When presented with the choice between full-blown Democrat and Democrat-lite, voters have traditionally chosen the real thing.

Romney as Dem light? Sure. Santorum? Are you crazy?

And while I would rather "Corporate welfare is wrong, period" as our candidate's stated position, if tax cuts for the manufacturing sector are the sacrifice we have to make I'll take it. You realize Santorum opposes ethanol subsidies...right? ETHANOL.

4 I'm sorry, Andy, but to say Romney is not a "credible alternative" to Obama is a hysterical overstatement. Romney won't wage war on American energy... That ALONE is a huge "alternative."

5

120MPH

but, but, we loves us some terminal velosity

6 I try not to, but it's hard not to blame Perry for Mitt's eventual nomination.

Perry had every advantage...money, a record, ideological compatibility with the base and a primary electorate hungry for someone to fly the conservative flag.

And then....well we know the rest.

It's hard to imagine someone doing less with that much going for them but that's the way it's played out.

I really, really wanted Perry to be the guy...he's just not.

7 We're going to be making the case for Huntsman next, aren't we. Fuck me sideways.

8 @6

Perry, the new Fred.

Pisses me off.

9 CoolCzech, I have no doubt at all that Romney will dabble around the edges and make small course corrections while the entitlement and debt monster eats us.

10 At what point did Perry screw up so badly that literally nothing he will say at this point will make people give him another chance?

11 Happy New Year to you, too.

12 >> At what point did Perry screw up so badly that literally nothing he will say at this point will make people give him another chance? "Heartless"

13 @6: I did, too, and I held out for him thru debates 1 thru 3. By the time his 45 second moment of agonized mental constipation rolled around, though, I had come to realize that my pet beagle had better debate performances licking his own nuts than Perry would ever have.

14 I think we've hamstrung ourselves. We're not talking up fiscal conservatism; it sounds too much like You Know Who and the candidates are being ever so careful not to sound like You Know Who.

15 Most of the Tea Party was mad because they thought they would have their social security cut, and not that they wanted government off their backs.

Posted by: Joffen at January 02, 2012 11:39 AM (zLeKL)

Yes, the problem is a majority is willing to cut other people's benefits...only a minority their own.

Of course there is no reason a smart Republican candidate can't work with that. Go after Dem groups first and hard, get them squealing, and only then try serious across the board reform.

The hardest fight will be the first real cut. Make the Democrats defend someone the public doesn't like - trial lawyers, the entertainment industry, etc.

16 I'm sorry, Andy, but to say Romney is not a "credible alternative" to Obama is a hysterical overstatement. Romney won't wage war on American energy... That ALONE is a huge "alternative."

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 02, 2012 11:40 AM (niZvt)

Romney will do a MUCH better job managing our decline then Obama, but he will guarantee that we do decline since he, of all the Republican major candidates, is by far the least likely to make substantive changes in the federal behemoth.

17 9 CoolCzech, I have no doubt at all that Romney will dabble around the edges and make small course corrections while the entitlement and debt monster eats us. Posted by: Andy at January 02, 2012 11:42 AM (XG+Mn) You gotta remember, a growing dynamic economy can tame the debt. Deregulation of energy is the best way to achieve it.

18 7 We're going to be making the case for Huntsman next, aren't we. Fuck me sideways.

What was that phone number again?

19 "Heartless" --- That's so fucking weak. And 18-1 Perry was willing and able to touch that "third-rail" and was vilified by people like Mittens. We need someone that is willing to do what is necessary to help the country, even saying stuff people don't want to hear. We need someone like Perry.

20 2 Most of the Tea Party was mad because they thought they would have their social security cut, and not that they wanted government off their backs.

That (and Medicare) was more the "townhaller" phenomenon, I think, than the Tea Party. Fear for Medicare is what got Scott Brown elected. Brown shunned the Tea Party.

The Tea Party really does want government off our backs. That's what happened in Alaska, Colorado, Kentucky, Delaware (for better or worse).

21 I try not to, but it's hard not to blame Perry for Mitt's eventual nomination.

And Obama's reelection. If any significant portion of the 30% or so of the base that keeps hopping from not-Mitt to not-Mitt really won't vote for him, and folks are free to decide from comments here and anyone else you talk to, he has no chance in the general.

Not that it matters. He won't balance the budget because he's incapable of actually opposing democrats when it matters, so the feral government won't be corrected in its ways until the market forces it has sought to suppress finally overwhelm it.

22 Most of the Tea Party was mad because they thought they would have their social security cut, and not that they wanted government off their backs.

You are sweeping with a broad brush. This Tea Partier is still willing to walk away from SS altogether.

23

The interesting thing in the article is how the author deals with the "two" Ricks.  The first two paragraphs talk about how Rick Perry is packing the house with energetic supporters.  Yep, two whole paragraphs.

He then goes on to talk about how Santorum shows up at a venue, but no one seems to care (since the people are watching the Iowa game) and how the owner of the place had to turn off the game in order to allow Santorum to work the crowd or how, at one venue, Santorum gathered more reporters than supporters.  The author then goes on for 15 paragraphs talking about Santorum and his "miracle."

Nah, no bias here.  Nothing to see.  Move on.

24 When presented with the choice between full-blown Democrat and Democrat-lite, voters have traditionally chosen the real thing. It sure looks like that's where we're headed in 2012, and there's an increasingly high possibility that Obama, the worst President of my lifetime (and I remember Carter) - likely the worst president ever - will be reelected because of our inability to field a credible alternative.

Yes, those all-important non-debate debates. Just another excuse to let the MFM choose our candidate for us. Yes, its 2008 all over again and McRomney will lose.

25 You gotta remember, a growing dynamic economy can tame the debt. Deregulation of energy is the best way to achieve it.

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 02, 2012 11:48 AM (niZvt)

I guess this is a fundamental question we conservatives face. Is our current situation one that can be resolved by a more competent administrator who will trim but not fundamentally change the status quo, or do we, at least within the next 8 years*, have to make a fundamental course correction?

I believe the latter, and will most likely not vote for Romney (or Huntsman) should he receive the nomination. 

*If the Republican candidate wins in 2012, the soonest we would get a more conservative Republican president would be 2020.

26 What bothers me is the concerted effort that the chattering classes have been making to depress the conservative vote. 

It's going to come back to haunt them in November. 

27 Brown shunned the Tea Party after he got elected.

FIFY

28 Most of the Tea Partiers that I have spoken to, and seen on tv are more concerned with ensuring the ss check comes in the mail.

29

I thought we were against picking winners and losers via the tax code, but it seems that none of our potential candidates can resist it.

 

Well, one should bear in mind that other nations are quite happy to pick those winners and losers with overt subsidies, import bans/restrictions, tax breaks, under-the-table loans, etc.  Allowing our own producers to fight foreign competitors AND their governments unaided, in the name of free markets (which do not exist anywhere on earth) is self destructive.

 

30 You gotta remember, a growing dynamic economy can tame the debt. Deregulation of energy is the best way to achieve it.

Fanciful bullshit.

There is no way that the federal government can grow 7% per year (per the baseline budgeting rules-which are necessary to mask the SS and Medicare bombs) with an economy pretending to limp along around 2% growth (if anyone even believes that) and decrease deficits, much less take the necessary step of paying down the debt and getting it behind us.

31
That's so fucking weak. And 18-1 Perry was willing and able to touch that "third-rail" and was vilified by people like Mittens.

I'd support either Perry or Santorum in the general. Maybe Newt - though that would be such a wildcard.

Romney won't make the changes we need though, and we can't wait another 8 years under a "Republican" president to the left of Bush 43.

32 "Romney will do a MUCH better job managing our decline then Obama, but he will guarantee that we do decline since he, of all the Republican major candidates, is by far the least likely to make substantive changes in the federal behemoth."

I know of no candidate, from any political party, that will, with certainty, make substantive changes in the federal behemoth. And should one come along, the people will not elect him as too many of the voters are addicted to the idea of federally delivered sugar. Just ask Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson what they heard during all their hearings and discussion.

33 Jeffen, most Tea Partiers understand that SS is BROKE.  It is an unfunded debt that has been stolen for for decades.  Now we are paying less into the fund, making it even more unstable.  Too bad the nitwits in D.C. don't have the first concept of economics.  Our nation, to them, is just one big Monopoly game.

34 Brown shunned the Tea Party after he got elected.

By the way, the Kennedy seat? Fits my ass just right.

35 I'd support either Perry or Santorum in the general. Maybe Newt - though that would be such a wildcard. --- What are you basing this on? What makes you think Newt wouldn't twist in the wind like Romney?

36 So far, Romney has managed to campaign in the primaries without taking a firm stand on pretty much anything. The only thing I know with certainty Mitt Romney believes is that Mitt Romney should be president. That said, should he win the GOP nomination and somehow defeat Obama and the Chicago Machine in the general election, Romney might conceivably discover his inner Reagan and actually lead as a conservative. I know: wishful thinking, but I can hope.

37

By the way, the Kennedy seat? Fits my ass just right.

Your daughters.  How much for your daughters?

38 Is this the book thread?

39
I know of no candidate, from any political party, that will, with certainty, make substantive changes in the federal behemoth.

Oh I could see Perry, Santorum, or Newt either backing down, or just plain failing. But if you want any hope of a course correction those are your options.

Well, I suppose Paul would fight even harder, but he'd face a hostile Republican party in addition to the Democrats, and have no political capital due to his conspiratorial insanity.

40 is today another Fed Holiday?

41 Romney might conceivably discover his inner Reagan and actually lead as a conservative.

When was the last time a Republican moved right after getting elected?

42 By the way, the Kennedy seat? Fits my ass just right.

Sure does, Scotty. Yer set for life. You don't need my help anymore, so stop calling.

43 Oh goodie, Ron Paul has his own "can't I just eat my waffle?" moment:

DonÂ’t bother Ron Paul while he eats breakfast

44 As I( said early this morning:

Latest meaningless poll in Iowa

Posted by: Vic at January 02, 2012 07:51 AM (YdQQY)

Who gives a shit who the Iowa GOP chooses? They voted Republican once since 1984.

45

So I build apartments for a living. No taking that to China right Santorum? So I am good to go for higher taxes right?

Fuck you Santorum and your crusade. Everytime I read about assholes like this it reminds me of the people running the country in Atlas Shrugged.

46 Is our current situation one that can be resolved by a more competent administrator who will trim but not fundamentally change the status quo, or do we, at least within the next 8 years*, have to make a fundamental course correction?

I believe the latter, ...

Posted by: 18-1 at January 02, 2012 11:52 AM (3aXbg)

 

I believe a fundamental course correction is very desireable, but I'm not convinced it's a survival issue.  Why is the next 8 years a vital time window for you?  What threat do you see serious enough that we should take the risk of immediate radical change, much of which will be bitterly unpopular? 

Radical, immediate cuts to spending will insure a return to recession by undermining aggregate demand.  It's not like any spending cuts will be matched by tax cuts - which would be the only way that it would work out to be a near-term economic benefit.  If austerity measures, which will be tied to the Republicans for the long haul, cause a double dip we'll be out of office on the next cycle and not allowed back in power for decades.

First, restore growth and free up the use of our own resources.  Only once that has been done, and private sector employment is on the rise, can we safely begin to starve leviathan. 

47 Most of the Tea Partiers that I have spoken to, and seen on tv are more concerned with ensuring the ss check comes in the mail.

You know at least one Tea Partier on the internet that isn't expecting to see a dime.

48 What are you basing this on? What makes you think Newt wouldn't twist in the wind like Romney?

Posted by: Joffen at January 02, 2012 11:57 AM (zLeKL)

As I've said, I believe Newt is a wildcard.

I could see him showing up, on Day 1, with a 400 page opus on entitlement reform. Or picking some other issue no one gives a damn about and spend 4 years negotiating with the Dems over everything else. 

I give him substantial credit for the '94 revolution, and significant demerits for almost everything he's done since then.

49 In a USA with good primary rules Iowa would be near the end of the States voting instead of first.

50 At this point the best thing to do is dissolve the union. Frankly, it wouldn't bother me at all if we split into 5 or 6 smaller countries. I remove my consent to be governed by this group of thieving bastards.

51 So far, Romney has managed to campaign in the primaries without taking a firm stand on pretty much anything. Yep. And to us fickle primary voters, that's good enough. Really, I'm starting to get really fucking pissed off with this group as a whole. The fact that the best candidate is staring us in the face, and we're gonna pay more attention to style over substance makes me sick. Reminds me of Obama voters.

52 @46 The only problem, and the fatal one, with your scenario, it that at the first sign of recovery--growth in private sector employment--our elected leaders will once again bury their heads in the sand and start saying "Everything is rosy" and start spending again.

53 Until a Republican candidate recognizes the government should not be in the business of creating jobs, he is still just a crony capitalist of a lesser degree. I never drove anything at 120 mph, and 60 is too much like going back to 55. Let's roll.

54 well, the new year isn't even 2 days old and we are already predicting failure. meet the new year, same as the old year

55

The sad thing about the Republican Party's inability to find a viable candidate is that practically every single person that comments on this blog would be a better President than Obama. But the Republican Party has the stupid going on and cannot help but nominate people that nobody wants. This is the party of Bush father, Dole, McCain. Heaven forbid that we should nominate another Goldwater.

Conclusion- We need a viable third party in the worst way.

56 Who gives a shit who the Iowa GOP chooses? They voted Republican once since 1984.

Posted by: Vic at January 02, 2012 12:01 PM (YdQQY)

10-4 that and it's a union state.  Cold, boring, and stupid.  Iowa 

57 our elected leaders will once again bury their heads in the sand and start saying "Everything is rosy" and start spending again.

The Dems are already saying that.

58 Oh I could see Perry, Santorum latest fad, or Newt either backing down, or just plain failing. But if you want any hope of a course correction those are your options.

59 Chemjeff Trails...get the vinegar.

60 well, the new year isn't even 2 days old and we are already predicting failure.

meet the new year, same as the old year Posted by: chemjeff

Expecting the worst means you're pleasantly surprised 9 out of 10 times.

61
"Heartless" ---------------------------------------------------Strike 1
Can't debate --------------------------------------------------Strike 2
Can't get his name on the ballot of a solidly conservative state --Strike 3
Let it go, he's done

62 5 120MPH but, but, we loves us some terminal velosity
_______

But if we streamline government, we can up that terminal velocity a bit.

63 Anyone but Mitt meme has worked. Even if the "anyone" is worse they have to be better they are not Mitt.

64 Posted by: RayJ at January 02, 2012 12:11 PM (LYiL5) This matters when making decisions as President?

65

Vote your candidate in the primary, the nominee in the General. Unless you want another Obama term.

It's simple. A shit sandwich or a prison gang rape with the barbed cock of Satan.

Your choice.

66 When did VA become a "solid conservative State"? Was that before or after voting for Obama?

67 Romney would extend the Bush tax cuts at all income levels, eliminate the death tax, and reduce the corporate income tax rate. How does this make him "Democrat-lite"? Maybe you should just vote for Ron Paul, Andy. Is he "pure" enough for you?

68 You can whine about Scott Brown, but having an R attached to that seat puts us one ass closer to getting rid of Dingy Harry.

We can argue forever about which presidential candidate is best, but it we don't take the senate away from Reid, it doesn't matter worth a hill of beans.

If anything is better than Obama (and it is), then let's take anything.  But we have got to get the senate back, and use that to force the president to the right.

69

"The total combined wealth of the Forbes 400 richest Americans is $1.5 trillion. So, if you confiscated the lot, it would barely cover one Obama debt-ceiling increase."

 

No matter. Let us remove all private wealth and give it to our corrupt government.

70 Romney might conceivably discover his inner Reagan and actually lead as a conservative.

Angie Harmon might conceivably show up on my doorstep wearing only a fur coat and a smile.

71

Since Mittens is in the discussion, what position will Michelle Bachmann be rewarded with in his Administration, if he wins the Presidency?

72

We're laughing all the way to the bank, baby. And we deserve to get all this special treatment. Because...well, just because.

We've got those stupid Republicans jumping through hoops for us. And we're not even a red state! Suckers.

73 When did VA become a "solid conservative State"? Was that before or after voting for Obama? @Vic, you have a nasty habit of making good points. Knock it off.

74 We simply cannot afford to have Obama give us another Sotomayor or Kagan.

75 It's Romney.

Let's save ourselves the angst and move on already.

Shouldn't we be turning our attention to keeping the House and reclaiming the Senate?

Who here will handle posts to cover that? Someone should be doing that -- every week highlighting a new House or Senate race.

Not to be bossy or anything. I think that would just be more productive than the hand-wringing we're doing now. I don't see the point.

76 We simply cannot afford to have Obama give us another Sotomayor or Kagan. You'll recall that Republicans helped vote them in. You'll also recall that Republicans, while voting against the final product, helped push Obamacare along while working with Dems, even when they were discussing the public option.

77 Why is the next 8 years a vital time window for you?  What threat do you see serious enough that we should take the risk of immediate radical change, much of which will be bitterly unpopular?

Well there are a few things.

1) The recession has ended on paper, it is here in practice, much like the rampant inflation we are experiencing even if the government keeps claiming the rate is near 0%.
2) The economy will not recover until at least everything Obama has done is rolled back.
3) Eight more years of trillion dollar deficits will bankrupt us and trimming at the edges won't change that.

Also, if played right I don't think that cutting the budget will be as unpopular as claimed. The hardest fight will be the first real cut - so choose a group you want to force the Democrats to defend and go to town on them.

78 After banging my head with my fists for a while, I have to say this is a nice encapsulation of the misery of this primary season.

If Romney's the nominee, Obama will be re-elected.

If Obama's re-elected, we're truly doomed.

So...what can we do?

79

As a former Palin supporter I must say I'm having a wonderful time watching Perry supporters grasping at straws trying to explain Perry's problem as "poor debate prep".  Very funny.

The truth is that Rick Perry has trouble forming a simple sentence, can't count to three, and even on his best day comes across as George W. Bush's younger, dumber, brother.  I don't hold his brain freeze against him at all because I think he proved in that moment that he's as honest as the day is long.  He didn't even try to bullshit his way out of it, which speaks to his character and the only thing I admire him for.  After the lying sleazebag Herman Cain's constant bullshit, Rick Perry is a breath of fresh air. 

But watching that man try to spit out a coherant sentence is painful and the last thing we need in a nominee.  Rick Perry makes Christine O'Donnell look like a Rhodes Scholar.  Yeah, he does.  No matter how rotten a candidate she turned out to be, she could at least articulate her beliefs in interviews and speeches.  I have yet to see a speech or an interview with Perry where I haven't cringed out of embarrassment for the poor guy.

Poor debate prep.  If only.

80 What threat do you see serious enough that we should take the risk of immediate radical change, much of which will be bitterly unpopular? 

Take a look at Europe. Greece obviously, but also how Italy's borrowing costs jumped from 3% to near 7% in a month late last year. Now tell us how long you really think trillion dollar federal deficits are going to last before our bond market is blown all to hell and back. There isn't going to be any more warning of the government's ability to borrow falling apart than we already have, and once it happens the cuts will be made chaotically.

Your false pretense here is that there is any option that 'encourages economic growth.' There is no right thing that makes everything better. There is only ending the credit toxin now, accepting the 10% contraction in GDP that will necessarily result (plus whatever political harm there is) or keeping the party going until the feds and banksters (BIRM) are incapable of maintaining the illusion. God help us all should the latter come to pass.

81

"The total combined wealth of the Forbes 400 richest Americans is $1.5 trillion. So, if you confiscated the lot, it would barely cover one Obama debt-ceiling increase."

Then we must confiscate it. After all, business creators are a myth, like unicorns. We have useless government lay-abouts and unaccountable bureaucrats to pay with your tax dollars. Bonus: Union dollars extracted from evil rich people will go straight to democrat coffers. And you people wonder why America is in the shit can?

82
"This matters when making decisions as President?"
Being competent matters.

"When did VA become a "solid conservative State"? Was that before or after voting for Obama?"
I'm from California. That kinda skews my optics.

83 As a former Palin supporter I must say I'm having a wonderful time watching Perry supporters grasping at straws trying to explain Perry's problem as "poor debate prep".  Very funny.

Well, it's nice to see that you have your priorities in order. 

84 We simply cannot afford to have Obama give us another Sotomayor or Kagan.

Bush 41 gave us Souter. Bush 43 tried to give us Meyers. In MA, Romney did a *much* worse job.

85 78 Dianna

"If Romney's the nominee, Obama will be re-elected."

What evidence do you base this on? Most polls show Romney running neck and neck with or even slightly ahead of Obama. Which current candidate (Zombie Reagan doesn't count) has a better chance than Romney?

86 71 Since Mittens is in the discussion, what position will Michelle Bachmann be rewarded with in his Administration, if he wins the Presidency? Posted by: Dick_Nixon at January 02, 2012 12:16 PM (3DjLg) She truly savaged Perry with the Tardisil BS... Makes one wonder if some sort of deal wasn't in the works.

87 Also, if played right I don't think that cutting the budget will be as unpopular as claimed. The hardest fight will be the first real cut - so choose a group you want to force the Democrats to defend and go to town on them.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 02, 2012 12:19 PM (3aXbg) 

Can somebody name the times the Republicans have brought the pain to the Dems?  Gone to the bell and not folded at the first sign of negative press?  Just dont see it happening with any of the current crop of Senators OR House members near the leadership positions

88 As a former Palin supporter I must say I'm having a wonderful time watching Perry supporters grasping at straws trying to explain Perry's problem as "poor debate prep".  Very funny.

You're also a Concerned Conservative Christian, aren't you?

89 You can whine about Scott Brown, but having an R attached to that seat puts us one ass closer to getting rid of Dingy Harry.

I will whine about him until I am tired of it, then start whining again when the mood strikes me. I will also hold my nose in November and vote for him.

It would be nice if he voted with us on the big issues, occasionally.

Frank/Dodd or bust!

90

Each crazy leftwing scheme (like HMOs for instance) must be vilified and memory holed so we can MoveOn to the next crazy insane leftwing scheme.

Democrats are in the business of stealing private wealth. Democrats are in the business of vilification and propaganda. We are soooo good at it.

91 Accidentally overheard some of ABC political round table discussion yesterday. One of the choice lines was to point to one of the women on the panel and say "You be the token democrat here on the panel and tell us who Obama wants to run against." Everyone laughed at that and the leader of the panel actually said "Of course we're all democrats here." The selected lady then did take her air time and said: "All of us democrats (more laughter) want to run against Romney".

I guess they figured no one was watching yesterday.

92 Since Mittens is in the discussion, what position will Michelle Bachmann be rewarded with in his Administration

So many undignified kama sutra jokes ...

93 If Romney's the nominee, Obama will be re-elected.

If Obama's re-elected, we're truly doomed.

So...what can we do?

Posted by: Dianna at January 02, 2012 12:19 PM (mKMj1)

Convince enough of the party that voting for Romney is suicide? 

I'd love to be able to get some one on one time with the likes of Jindal or other potential heavy hitters that have chosen to stay out and ask them what the hell they are thinking.

94

I'm heartened that any candidate can even remember that we once had a thriving manufacturing sector that was destroyed by NAFTA, GATT, the EPA's boot and Billy Jeff Cliton's wonderfully idiotic decision to move us to a "service economy." This sector provided real, living wages and the opportunity to advance up the ladder without a college degree. It once provided genuine diversity in the job market, with companies employing engineers, draftsmen, machinists, welders, painters, QC inspectors, accountants and truck drivers. I know because I lived during that time.

And don't waste your time telling me NAFTA had nothing to do with the decline in manufacturing. I know better and you should too: I got laid off within a week of its passage and the sector has only gotten worse in the years since. Now, we've become so stupidly dependent upon foreign suppliers that a natural disaster half a world away can idle American production lines (and workers) for weeks. In a sane world where everything wasn't backwards, we'd be making our products here.

We're the world's largest economy, yet we don't make of the coveted hardware that makes us the world's largest economy, why, again? Because of governmental regulations.

Idiots in Washington (which would be everybody, apparently) who have no idea how a free-market economy is supposed to operate got us into this mess, along with their Marxist buddies in the environmental movement. It appears we're going to have to have governmental intervention if we are to ever re-establish what was once a vital, nearly recession-proof sector of the economy.

 

95 @87 Exactly. I mentioned a few days ago when the Gingrich-crying story broke that I'd like to see GOP "leaders" spend less time crying and more time making some liberals cry. I can't remember the last time that has happened.

96

Jaynie59 at January 02, 2012 12:20 PM

So you are off of the St Sarah the Spineless wagon? You know, she has made a fortune off of people like you. So who are you supporting, Santorum? Maybe you can help him out. After all, he got raped the last time he ran for office.

Of course, unlike Palin, Rick had the spine to run. Palin was too gutless to try.

97

As a former Palin supporter I must say I'm having a wonderful time watching Perry supporters grasping at straws trying to explain Perry's problem as "poor debate prep".  Very funny.

He's still a governor...how smart can he be? 

That gig don't pay shit compared to soft punditry. 

98 Sour grape Palin fanguuurl mocking alleged....sour grapes.

How ironic, that.

99 92 Since Mittens is in the discussion, what position will Michelle Bachmann be rewarded with in his Administration So many undignified kama sutra jokes ... Posted by: Waterhouse at January 02, 2012 12:25 PM (FUYSU) Doggy!

100 Why is the next 8 years a vital time window for you? Interest rates are one. If at any point the interest rates the government has to pay go up with our current debt load and spending pattern, our debt skyrockets.

101 Time for Operation Counterweight.

102 I heard on the news the other day that we are approaching the debt ceiling already, holy shit they are burning thru cash at a treasonous rate, nothing to see here, everything is ooookaaay

103

A couple of things:

First off, Joffen; the Tea Party is unorganized mostly and a true grass-roots movement.  I'm another "tea partier" that would get out of SS if I could, think it is a scam, and am incensed at the over-reach of the Federal Government.

Second on the election:  The MSM created the Obama presidency.  I don't think it matters who the GOP ran or runs AT ALL, the MSM and the Democrats will lie and dig and cheat to reelect Obama. 

Whoever we run, they get the gotcha questions, the unending glare of scrutiny for any hiccup, the endless digging for skeletons.

Obama got and will continue to get a pass... on everything.  It is impossible to run against someone who gets no scrutiny, no digging, no real criticism.  When it comes from the GOP it will be packaged as racism, hate-speech and reflective on the one speaking instead of Obama.  They've done it already repeatedly.

I don't blame the GOP field for not being a dream field.. until the MSM loses their agenda driven lockstep love affair with the DNC and lefists, CONSERVATIVES will have a frustratingly hard time within the GOP and too in the general election.....    and then the donks will cheat and go to court too.  

104

Good Lord, the Perry supporters are still whining. His campaign has been  amess and he was awful in the debates- case closed.

I like Santorum's corporate tax idea for mnufacturers. Santorum is exactly right- florists are not moving to China. That is not picking winners and losers and anybody who says that (Andy for example) are dead wrong.

Romney will be the nominee. If the Perry fans (or any other conservatives) do not like it and want to whine all year long, go right ahead. If you fail to support the nominee in November and President Politics is re-elected, the blames lies right at your doorstep.

PS. Andy is a homo.

105 Can somebody name the times the Republicans have brought the pain to the Dems?  Gone to the bell and not folded at the first sign of negative press?

The Iraq surge in 2007. Before that they sort of did in 1994 though they eventually backed down, but only after a relatively long fight. And in the 80s Reagan regularly took the fight to the Dems....

106 This matters when making decisions as President?

Posted by: Joffen at January 02, 2012 12:13 PM (zLeKL)

Not much at all. It matters when accumulating support to get elected at all. I'm not voting until March, so I'll take whichever not-Mitt the earlier states give me. I think Perry has the best chance of doing what needs to be done, I just don't think he's viable now, much less will be by the time the primary gets here.

107 So who are you supporting, Santorum? Maybe you can help him out. After all, he got raped the last time he ran Posted by: Dick_Nixon at January 02, 2012 12:25 PM (3DjLg) Is THAT why he always looks like he's about to start crying?

108

CoolCzech at January 02, 2012 12:26 PM

It wouldn't be worth it unless you can gaze into her crazy eyes. Maybe a mirror would be useful?

109 So, what's going to happen when Obama requests another debt ceiling expansion during the election year? I predict the Republicans on the Hill will grumble a little, and then cave like the Rangers in the World Series.

110 84. Yes Meyers was a potential disaster. A disaster that didn't happen.  Bush 43 gave us Roberts and Alito. Two awesome picks. We know that Obama will give us the most left wing idiot he can find. At least with a mittens or a gingrich or a Perry we have a chance at pick who isn't a total disaster.

111

Interest rates are one. If at any point the interest rates the government has to pay go up with our current debt load and spending pattern, our debt skyrockets.

 

Bite your tongue. 

We can't afford to reward a populus that saves rathers than spends!?

112

As a former Palin supporter I must say I'm having a wonderful time watching Perry supporters grasping at straws trying to explain Perry's problem as "poor debate prep".  Very funny.

The truth is that Rick Perry has trouble forming a simple sentence, can't count to three, and even on his best day comes across as George W. Bush's younger, dumber, brother.  I don't hold his brain freeze against him at all because I think he proved in that moment that he's as honest as the day is long.  He didn't even try to bullshit his way out of it, which speaks to his character and the only thing I admire him for.  After the lying sleazebag Herman Cain's constant bullshit, Rick Perry is a breath of fresh air. 

But watching that man try to spit out a coherant sentence is painful and the last thing we need in a nominee.  Rick Perry makes Christine O'Donnell look like a Rhodes Scholar.  Yeah, he does.  No matter how rotten a candidate she turned out to be, she could at least articulate her beliefs in interviews and speeches.  I have yet to see a speech or an interview with Perry where I haven't cringed out of embarrassment for the poor guy.

Poor debate prep.  If only.

Posted by: Jaynie59 at January 02, 2012 12:20 PM (4zKCA)

Thank you Mr. Axelrod for telling us who the one candidate you really don't want to face is.

113

 Pete_Bondurant at January 02, 2012 12:28 PM

Pete, all of us Perry supporters will support the nominee. You too stupid to read or are you just pulling crap from your rear?

114 I predict the Republicans on the Hill will grumble a little, and then cave like the Rangers in the World Series.

Posted by: Dave at January 02, 2012 12:29 PM (Xm1aB)

This jowl isn't gonna feed itself while the government is shut down boy.

115 We know that Obama will give us the most left wing idiot he can find. At least with a mittens or a gingrich or a Perry we have a chance at pick who isn't a total disaster.

Posted by: Luminous Vinegar at January 02, 2012 12:29 PM (O7ksG)

So, based on Romney's nominations in MA, what makes you think he will be anywhere near Bush 41, let alone Bush 43 in SC picks? Both of whom picked total disasters in addition to good justices.

116 The Iraq surge in 2007. Before that they sort of did in 1994 though they eventually backed down, but only after a relatively long fight. And in the 80s Reagan regularly took the fight to the Dems....

Posted by: 18-1 at January 02, 2012 12:28 PM (3aXbg)

That is such a comforting statline, 20+ years and no need for more than one hand. The number of times the Dems pretty much walked all over the R's and got what they wanted? Books could probably be written.

117 Was just sent this huff poo poo article in an email from an avowed republican.  Guess he's not a big santorum supporter.

My first thought was "wow, guess he's arrived if they are going to all this trouble"

118 Posted by: 18-1 at January 02, 2012 12:33 PM (3aXbg)

Simple.  We aren't allowed to look at Romney's record. 

119 Santorum: "Yes, I'll bomb Iran." Rick proves right here that he isn't a serious candidate. Without the benefit of the "big picture" and it's global ramifications, Rick Santorum has proven himself to be as starry-eyed and naive as a young black politician who shot from the lip in 2008. I hope you will all join with me and denounce this kind of pie-in-the-sky idiocy with the same venom and vigor as was demonstrated against said young black politician.

120 If you fail to support the nominee in November and President Politics is re-elected, the blames lies right at your doorstep.

Yes, I'm staying home because there is no material upside to a President Romney, but I'm totally going to change my mind because you won't like me.

121 I smell cat pee.

122

So, based on Romney's nominations in MA, what makes you think he will be anywhere near Bush 41, let alone Bush 43 in SC picks? Both of whom picked total disasters in addition to good justices.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 02, 2012 12:33 PM (3aXbg)

But he had a soundly Democrat legislation to work with, there was nothing else he could do.

123 Some of us have run away from the GOP plantation.

124 Jaynie59 at January 02, 2012 12:20 PM
Palin fan or not, the mention of her at this point does what?

125 Palin fan or not, the mention of her at this point does what?

Posted by: willow at January 02, 2012 12:36 PM (h+qn

You must have forgotten, The Palin has not yet decided whom to back as nominee. 

126

In most countries, elections are a good marker of what the median voter thinks. Though excellent Presidents and campaigners can build coalitions that move the party and country in their direction, they have to deal with the realities of the votes available.

The big deal really isn't that the primary is 'the best we can do'. One weak cycle of candidates doesn't prove much. The bigger problem is that Romney is about 'the best we can get out of the median voter'.

This is why so many people didn't run. This is why so many conservatives are running vanity campaigns. This is why Perry might still be one of the best candidates even though  he makes Palin look like a Rhodes Scholar. This is the real DOOM.

127 108 CoolCzech at January 02, 2012 12:26 PM It wouldn't be worth it unless you can gaze into her crazy eyes. Maybe a mirror would be useful? Posted by: Dick_Nixon at January 02, 2012 12:28 PM (3DjLg) Excellent point, Dick Nixon! Mount her ass in front of a mirror, grab her hair with both hands, and whisper "Here comes your Gardasil shot, beatch!" in her ear... The rest will be ecstasy...

128
Let the chips fall where they will, but Christie's Mitten's endorsement is like a blow to the head.

129

But he had a soundly Democrat legislation to work with, there was nothing else he could do.

Posted by: Talking Point Generator Mk 1 Mod 2 at January 02, 2012 12:35 PM (FIDMq)

Hmm, so when the Maine sisters and Scott Kennedy Brown tell Mittens that some lukewarm Republican he wants to nominate is too extreme, Mittens will

A) Fight fight fight!

B) Pick a Souter

C) Pick a "compromise" candidate...like he did in MA...

130
Doomed while Boned.  It now seems to be some kind of competition to see who gets to drive us into debt collapse.

So Happy New Year.  Take the Mayans and give the points.

131 121 I smell cat pee. Posted by: Y-not at January 02, 2012 12:35 PM (5H6zj) Sure it's not asparagus?

132 I don't have a crystal ball. If Obama is re-elected, he will probably get at least 2 more picks.

133

Hmm, so when the Maine sisters and Scott Kennedy Brown tell Mittens that some lukewarm Republican he wants to nominate is too extreme, Mittens will

A) Fight fight fight!

B) Pick a Souter

C) Pick a "compromise" candidate...like he did in MA...

Posted by: 18-1 at January 02, 2012 12:38 PM (3aXbg)

You forgot D)Stick finger in air to see which way the wind is blowing

134 You know at least one Tea Partier on the internet that isn't expecting to see a dime.
Posted by: fluffy

Make that at least two.

135 I don't have a crystal ball. If Obama is re-elected, he will probably get at least 2 more picks.

That's not going to matter in the slightest when reality returns to the markets.

136

Then we deserve to lose.

 

Sorry you just now realize that.

 

This post is a big waste of time.

137 Our choice is coming down to whether we want to run the car over the cliff at 120MPH with Obama or whether we want to clip along at a leisurely 60MPH with the eventual GOP nominee in the driver's seat for that final launch over the edge.

Yep, which is why we have to look at other aspects of the candidates and what they offer, what they lack, and what the would mean as president. And that means we are reluctant to support someone like Romney or Gingrich.

138 Stay home or vote for Obama. But for crying out loud stop your fucking whining.

139
Mount her ass in front of a mirror, grab her hair with both hands, and whisper "Here comes your Gardasil shot, beatch!" in her ear... The rest will be ecstasy...

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 02, 2012 12:38 PM (niZvt)

This has occured to you before, am I right? (I almost typed "am I tight?" which would have been really funny here but humiliating at the same time depending on the answer.)

140 85 78 Dianna

"If Romney's the nominee, Obama will be re-elected."

What evidence do you base this on? Most polls show Romney running neck and neck with or even slightly ahead of Obama. Which current candidate (Zombie Reagan doesn't count) has a better chance than Romney?
Posted by: packsoldier

Hard evidence is lacking - in other words, there aren't serious polls about it, yet - but look at it this way: Romney isn't really a known quantity to most voters yet. When he is, I'm betting his lack of any visible conviction will doom his candidacy.

As to a viable candidate? I'm absolutely stumped. The current field doesn't please me, my initial enthusiasms have more than cooled, and I'm loath to settle on this week's "Not Romney". Being in California, there's a distinct limit to how much hope I have of electing a conservative congresscritter, but my main focus is the House and Senate. Because as bad as a second Obama term would be, a Congress ready to rein him in is about the only hope I see.

I wish I had a stronger proposal.

141 With all due respect this is probably the dumbest post I've ever read here. The whining negativity has gone far enough. I've been through my share of disappointments with candidates but this 'woe is me we deserve to lose' stuff is most akin to an infantile tantrum. Suck it up. We got some liberal ass to kick in 2012, regardless of who is carrying the flag.

142 To the idiot who thinks tea partyers just want Social Security. Um, no I want absolutely nothing besides a strong national defense. SS, MC, MC be damned just leave me alone. This Perry defense by the Conservative blogosphere is perplexing to me. Between Heartless and the fact that he CANNOT debate, I don't see a reason to believe that he can beat Obama. We have all seen what debate performances can do to a candidate in a primary. Imagine Perry vs. Obama. Think about it. Let is fester. The media praising Dear Leader for his eloquent, nay genius debate skills. Rick Perry 2012 "Heartless"

143 Why should florists and restaurants pay corporate taxes but not manufacturers? “Because,” Santorum says, “this restaurant isn’t moving to China, right? The florist isn’t moving to China.”

What this post illustrates is the willingness of politicians -- no matter whose laundry they happen to wear -- to use people as things to achieve preferred outcomes.

Here endeth the first lesson.

144 139 Mount her ass in front of a mirror, grab her hair with both hands, and whisper "Here comes your Gardasil shot, beatch!" in her ear... The rest will be ecstasy... Posted by: CoolCzech at January 02, 2012 12:38 PM (niZvt) This has occured to you before, am I right? (I almost typed "am I tight?" which would have been really funny here but humiliating at the same time depending on the answer.) Posted by: dagny at January 02, 2012 12:56 PM (R62Yx) Yes, it has; Yes, You're Right; and Not Sure, But It's Always Fun to Guess Which Gal Is...

145 I've gone to the website for FoxNews and can't figure out how to send an email to comment on the fucking baboon moron that is Allan Colms!!!!! I am so damned pissed I am spitting and sputtering.  Anybody know how to send an email to them?  I am done watching Fox as long as they allow that fucknut on the air.

146 Been watching CNN and they are constantly reminding their viewer that John McCain was the nominee.  Maybe some don't remember but every single time McCain said anything worthwhile, our president said (paraphrasing) "oh that's good, I agree with that" to the point where you could literally not see a difference between him and mccain.    I keep looking at the Republican field wondering how each candidate will react to this kind of campaigning from the president. 

147 134 You know at least one Tea Partier on the internet that isn't expecting to see a dime.
Posted by: fluffy

Make that at least two.

Posted by: Dianna at January 02, 2012 12:44 PM (mKMj1)

 

 

Three.

148 Ron Paul just called Rick Santorum "too liberal" and when the incredulous CNN reporter challenged him on this he insisted and said "he's too liberal, have you seen his voting record?"  and then went on to say he's a big spender.  What is Santorum's record like, would Paul just say this assuming no one is going to check?

149

...The big deal really isn't that the primary is 'the best we can do'. One weak cycle of candidates doesn't prove much. The bigger problem is that Romney is about 'the best we can get out of the median voter'.

This is why so many people didn't run. This is why so many conservatives are running vanity campaigns...

Thank you.
I getting so tired of the whining about RINO's or the liberal media or what the fuck ever.
If this is the best the Republican constituency can put up, then it's our fault.
We ain't getting a Ronald Reagan because this ain't 1980 and our country ain't what it was in 1980.
Maybe the only solution is to let the "4x4 of reality" do its work and hope the country learns something.  We were a smarter country after 911, so it ain't impossible.

But if you're stupid enough to fore-go Romney because he's not pure enough, then you are a candidate for the "4x4 of reality".
And a second term of The One will do it.

150 One consistent thing I keep seeing stated...

"If Romney is the nominee, Obama will be re-elected"

I've been saying it for months, Obama is unelectable.  It doesn't matter who the nominee is, he or she will beat Obama by at least Bush 2004 numbers.

I'd rather not have Romney as President, since I think it will be pissing away the best opportunity to fix the country in a generation. But saying that he won't beat Obama is silly.

151 142 To the idiot who thinks tea partyers just want Social Security. Um, no I want absolutely nothing besides a strong national defense. SS, MC, MC be damned just leave me alone.

Posted by: Big T Party at January 02, 2012 01:03 PM (hC5jI)     This.   I don't expect Social Security, and would be happy without it, if the leftists will agree not to confiscate (either in one shot, or through the death of a thousand cuts in taxes and such) what I've saved for retirement to give to idiots who failed to save (and who lived high on the hog while we scrimped).   Deal?

152 What's up with the fucking carriage returns on this site, anyway? I either get seven of 'em, or none. /rant

153 Santorum eval on small government category:

Club for Growth rates him high on opposing taxes and voting many times for tax cuts and against tax hikes. However, on spending they give him a mixed record. His initial record was very good in opposing spending until the Bush years came along. There he supported BushÂ’s spending programs, No Child, the Drug program, TARP etc. He also gets bad marks for supporting earmarks, but that is 99% of them. Its hard to fault him for supporting a Republican President but it is a negative.  Note that CFG may be wrong on the Bush drug vote. The “On the Issues” site says he voted against it.

On regulation they give him a mixed record having flip-flopped on a couple of issues like ethanol mandates and Housing regulations. He also voted for Sarbannes-Oxely which was a huge POS. He gets no plus for me in this one.

So overall, his record on small government is mixed. Good on taxes, mixed on spending mainly due to Bush, and I would actually say poor on regulations.

Overall negative here.

154 ^{Our choice is coming down to whether we want to run the car over the cliff at 120MPH with Obama or whether we want to clip along at a leisurely 60MPH with the eventual GOP nominee in the driver's seat for that final launch over the edge.}

Only one candidate is crazy enough to cut a trillion off spending.

155

Take a look at Europe. Greece obviously, but also how Italy's borrowing costs jumped from 3% to near 7% in a month late last year. Now tell us how long you really think trillion dollar federal deficits are going to last before our bond market is blown all to hell and back.

That's a different scenario.  The euro members are in trouble because they have no control over their currency.  Italy can't devalue to create a soft landing.  Nor can Greece.  Further, our government is under no obligation to borrow.  It's the monopoly supplier of dollars and can generate as many as are required out of thin air.  The states have to sell bonds and collect taxes to pay for things.  The federal government taxes only to control the money supply and to control behavior.  Over spending only becomes a serious issue when big inflation sets in, and in the modern era every single hyperinflationary episode has been caused by either having debt in a foreign currency, massive civil unrest, or both.  We don't have those (yet).

Your false pretense here is that there is any option that 'encourages economic growth.' There is no right thing that makes everything better.

Posted by: Methos at January 02, 2012 12:21 PM (sOXQX)

Huh - well, let's just throw up our hands then and give up.  Nothing can be improved with our meager powers of imagination...  Yet somehow we're supposed to have the brains, will, and political muscle to make massive cuts in government - a feat never before achieved?? 

We have many policy options that would bring about considerable near-term improvement in employment and growth.  Energy policy is but one area.  If we had enough political muscle to cut spending, we would have more than enough to put those in place.  Cutting spending is the hardest of all tasks.  Blowing all our capital on cuts, without first getting something to spark private sector growth, would be suicide.  It would do nothing but bring the collapse closer.  The 10% contraction you predict is probably real if full-on austerity is applied, and is political death for whoever is holding that bag.

 

156

Santorum is not a bad guy. ......But if he has any leadership skills......then he has hidden them very well.

157 Andy, you and about 90% of the commenters here are just FUBAR. Seriously, why don't we "conservatives" just knee cap THE ONLY alternative to Obama. Can any one of you look at the field of Republican candidates and, actually being honest with yourselves, not come away knowing in your heart that only one of those people is anywhere near stable enough to even be considered by the American? Since when is it conservative to go around saying we are going to shut down this department and that department and change social security and on and on. You do realize that over the decades real people have actually become dependent upon all the profligate government spending we have allowed the Democrats AND REPUBLICANS to install? When a little old woman who will not have any money without her social security check hears that Rick Perry or whoever is going to change social security because it is a ponzi scheme, she gets a little nervous. It is going to take a little time to make the necessary changes. Unlike you, I would much rather have a Republican, any Republican, at the helm in lieu of Mr. $500 million subsidies to his top donors involved in "green" scams. Or you can call him Mr. Spend $1+trillion more than we have EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Like you said Andy, he is THE WORST president we have ever seen, BUT in the very next breath you say that Romney is basically just as bad. This is bullsh*t and you know it. You don't want Romney for what ever reason-he doesn't throw enough bombs, he supports a mandate, he's a Mormon, he changes positions to pander to those whose votes he wants, etc... Well, I would say to each of those respectively-thank goodness, so did and do many conservatives, so what, and what politician doesn't. He is worlds away from Obama on every issue, in the good direction. Romney is our only option. I cannot believe the stupidity of saying you would rather speed towards the abyss at 120mph than 60mph. That is just so F*cked up I cannot even understand it. Have you ever driven a car? If we at least slow down to 60, we have more time to figure out how to get on another path. The American people have never and will not accept a bomb throwing, let's change everything right now candidate. Romney is appealing to voters who want a change but do not want to fear that everything will be thrown into chaos. But, you and seemingly many self-proclaimed conservatives wish to see us speed over the cliff at 120mph, for bragging rights or something I guess. So much do you want this that you are willing to knock, mock, and diss our only hope of avoiding the fate. Hopefully, those of us who want Obama out of office now, even if our only alternative is a somewhat moderate, skilled, good-looking, filthy rich, successful mormon, will be able to overcome your pettiness.

158 Alan Colms on Fox dissed Santorum based on he and his wife's decision to let their family see the child that passed away at birth!  He held that up as an example of his bad decision making.  I am completely stunned and as angry as I have ever been at a human being.  My God, is this what the liberal/progressive mind has become?  Really??  Our society is fucking doomed.

159 Posted by: RSOTS at January 02, 2012 01:30 PM (0XJKS)

I don't think Romney is the only option.  Gingrich looks pretty good.  He has a real record.  It was pointed out to me this morning that he said in Iowa that he wants to have a discussion about entitlements for a year or so before anything would be done.  In sharp contrast to the way in which were were force fed obamacare but also, the older gentleman who explained this to me said that Gingrich did this with welfare.  So he has a record, the will and leadership qualities.  My main problem is who can I trust and believe.  I think after all the promises made by the president in the last election, promises that haven't been kept, even diehard libs are a little gun shy and afraid to believe what any of them say about anything.  I'm glad most of the president's promises weren't kept, that's a good thing.  But, as a country, we've become a nation of people who think we have no say.  A nation of people who feel that we can be promised anything and when that promise is not delivered we seem to have no recourse.  This is what is coloring the election.

160  Ron Paul just called Rick Santorum "too liberal" and when the incredulous CNN reporter challenged him on this he insisted and said "he's too liberal, have you seen his voting record?"  and then went on to say he's a big spender.  What is Santorum's record like, would Paul just say this assuming no one is going to check?

Posted by: dip theory ah at January 02, 2012 01:11 PM (oZfic)

Well, he's correct in the sense that Santorum was a "party man" and voted for lots and lots and lots of spending.  And pork.  Big record on pork for PA - in the billions.  Yep, Santorum sure loved the pork.  And Arlen Spector, of course.

161

Posted by: RSOTS at January 02, 2012 01:30 PM (0XJKS)

 

+1

162

Look, it's time to take Perry's picture from underneath your pillow and get with the fucking program. Perry's muffed it and will never get off the bench again.

Romney would be preferable to Obama, but who wouldn't? And this bullshit about how Mittens is more electable is just that; it's bullshit.

Romney means we'll lose New York and California by more respecable margins. The key is to win Florida (Newt's strangely popular with seniors), win Virginia (Newt's from neighboring Georgia and polls well there), and win Ohio (which voted overwhelmingly against the Obama mandate).

We can run Gingrich and have a good chance of winning with someone who is willing to think outside the box. We can have a brokered convention and get someone else. Or we can lose to Obama, and not survive intact as a nation.

163 .

164 Since Mittens is in the discussion, what position will Michelle Bachmann be rewarded with in his Administration

My guess would be, assuming that he does reward her, an Ambassadorial post somewhere unimportant.

165 Is it always like this with the Iowa poll?  The nation being off and being able to tune into CNN and I'm guessing all the other networks too and hear some tidbit pertaining to the candidates they will vote on tomorrow?

166 Santorum 2012! A SoCon Statist for the Future!

167

Wow, I'm back again for a day, thanks PTB!

Folks, face reality. Nothing substantive will be done until the bond-wraiths come for us. It doesn't matter who you elect, Presidents don't set budgets, and the group of 535 does not have the collective guts to cut their own political throats and never will. That's why we have 10 years of tough times ahead.

The presidential race makes little difference other than deciding who gets the blame and appoints Supremes in the meantime. Any of the current crew will be satisfactory as there is no magic policy to be implemented to change tracks, it's too late for that. There will be worldwide pain and blood will spill. It will be best to hide in little out of the way corners of the world or the good old USA, preferably away from large urban areas.

Prepare, not total nutcase style, but prepare.  

168

i hope Ron Paul wins, not because I like him, but to see the looks on on your faces.

wake the fuck up!

both parties are playing us for fools, and you all lap it up like a cat does milk.

it doesn't matter which party is in charge, the government just keeps getting bigger, and more costly, and more powerful and more authoritarian.

"but, it's only the guys in the "other" party that are bad, right?"

no! you blithering idiot!

BOTH parties are doing this to us, the entire Ruling Class is selling your children down the river, so they don't have to pay the piper now!

Vote Them All Out! (and keep voting them all out until they are terrified of us, too terrified to do anything not in Article 1, Section

 

 

 

 

169

Huh - well, let's just throw up our hands then and give up.  Nothing can be improved with our meager powers of imagination...  Yet somehow we're supposed to have the brains, will, and political muscle to make massive cuts in government - a feat never before achieved?? 

An economy is nothing more or less than the total of all things being done that are considered useful enough for someone else to pay for them. A growing economy is just a measure that some people think they can do more useful things and their effort to attempt such. This means spending in excess of their current income, and that money can either be their stored surplus or it can be borrowed. The fact is that not all of those attempts will be successful and eventually we have to go through a period where the failures are recognized and disposed (and debts defaulted). Recessions must happen. The stagnation we are currently seeing is the direct consequence of TARP, the spendulus, and QE1 and 2. We have not yet had the corrective recession that should have occurred in 2008, and we still must have it first before there will be any opportunity for real growth. Because of the magic of compounding interest, all the losses that have been put off will necessarily be larger when they arrive.

If the budget had been balanced in response to the lockup, the cuts would have been merely 25% of federal spending and 5-ish% of GDP. Because it was put off, we're looking at half the federal government and 10%, and that's today. We're stuck with another year of churning interest in the system, and that's assuming the next President has the sense to cut spending immediately. This situation can only get worse until the deficits end entirely, unless you can demonstrate what thing you want the government to do that is going to grow the economy faster than the feds are growing. That's a minimum of 7% GDP growth for the foreseeable future. I don't think that's possible.

 Cutting spending is the hardest of all tasks.  Blowing all our capital on cuts, without first getting something to spark private sector growth, would be suicide. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "capital." Capital is typically the surplus of production, and we have none. Our current system is based on credit-funny money printed by the federal reserve and loaned into existence-which is money now for the promise to work tomorrow. We don't have a 'now' problem to solve here. The problem is all the debt that has accumulated over decades. In a credit system, you can only have growth if the printer has someplace to stuff their money faster than debts are repaid to it. But between mortgages, auto loans, student loans, credit cards, and all the other ways we've borrowed against tomorrow in an effort to live beyond our means, there is no place left to stuff. Tomorrow is here, and the only choice we have is accepting the pain and getting through it, while the survival of the country remains a possibility, or keeping up the gimmicks until literally everything in western civilization (and Japan, and China) breaks at the same time.

170 "Prepare, not total nutcase style, but prepare."

Please define "total nutcase style".
Just so I know.

171 If Ron Paul wins Iowa, they  might consider closing the GOP nomination process to Democrats.

172 "Prepare, not total nutcase style, but prepare."

Please define "total nutcase style".
Just so I know.

Posted by: RayJ at January 02, 2012 02:21 PM (LYiL5)

A suitcase nuke is not a home defense weapon.

173   I am done watching Fox as long as they allow that fucknut on the air.

Posted by: DailyDish at January 02, 2012 01:08 PM (Tl1mu)

You are late to the party. I made that decision the night Colmes called American soldiers terrorists and Hannity didn't walk off the set. That was about 4 years ago.

174

And while I would rather "Corporate welfare is wrong, period" as our candidate's stated position, if tax cuts for the manufacturing sector are the sacrifice we have to make I'll take it. You realize Santorum opposes ethanol subsidies...right? ETHANOL.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 02, 2012 11:39 AM (3aXbg)

-----------------

Actually, you're wrong.  Rick Santorum supports Ethanol Subsidies, Mandating Fuel Standards and for Taxpayer funding for Iowa Corngrowers.

Here's the link to the Iowa Corngrowers Survey all candidates filled out:

Rick Santorum gets A- for support of Ethanol subsidies/Fuel standards/taxpayer funding frm iowa Corngrowers Org bit.ly/sLWJcU

175

I'm not sure what you mean by "capital." Capital is typically the surplus of production, and we have none.

I meant political capital - our power to bring about change - which is not inexaustible.  But as for production surplus, this country has vast untapped labor and plant resources.  We're not unable to make more stuff.  There's just no demand for it, so it doesn't get made.

Our current system is based on credit-funny money printed by the federal reserve and loaned into existence-which is money now for the promise to work tomorrow.

All fiat currency is a variant of this.  Doesn't mean it's a bad system.  Money doesn't exist until the government spends it into existence.  All money is debt - a claim against the state, which we use first and foremost to satisfy the tax man. 

...between mortgages, auto loans, student loans, credit cards, and all the other ways we've borrowed against tomorrow in an effort to live beyond our means, there is no place left to stuff.

I was not clear on the fact that you intended to include private debt in your comment.  I thought public debt was the focus.  I'm confident that private deleveraging, which has been making progress, will work itself out.  In the mean time the loss of demand has left our productive capacity underutilized.  This is inherently deflationary, and will remain so until private sector deleveraging is complete.  During such a time, deficit spending is not competing with private spending for limited resources.  Thus, deficits are not a threat except for the fact that we foolishly choose to pay interest on "borrowed" funds.

Tomorrow is here, and the only choice we have is accepting the pain and getting through it, while the survival of the country remains a possibility, or keeping up the gimmicks until literally everything in western civilization (and Japan, and China) breaks at the same time.

Is it the only choice?  The only inflation I've seen, in spite of the deficits, is food and energy.  Those price increases are clearly an issue of global supply and demand as the 3rd world demands more gasoline and a better diet.  Until there is monetary inflation that is distinct from mere price increases, the deficits are not yet critical. 

Massive cuts will be even more deflationary.  Unemployment will skyrocket, people will clamp down hard on spending, and the paradox of thrift will send us into a death spiral.

Unless policy changes are made to encourage private sector activity and confidence FIRST, the economic pain it brings (even if short term) will be so damaging as to be unrecoverable.  We'll hand the keys to the Left, and then we'll see first hand what real, hard-core socialism looks like.

Posted by: Methos at January 02, 2012 02:20 PM (sOXQX)

176 If Obama wins America is finished. We need to start planning for that outcome.

177

Posted by: RayJ at January 02, 2012 02:21 PM (LYiL5)

The best preparation is an out-of-the-way place to live. Weaponry is overrated, though I do have the usual. I'm more interested in being out of the way than in sitting around with guns trying to kill criminals night and day. 

178
Only one candidate is crazy enough to cut a trillion off spending.

Posted by: Valiant at January 02, 2012 01:25 PM (aFxlY)

And since presidents can't cut a damn thing, that won't happen either.  

179 "A suitcase nuke is not a home defense weapon."

I like the way you think.

180 Was told by a conservative today "Gingrich has to go, the left wants to run against him too much".  Was told by a lib today "it's sad the republicans in Iowa don't seem to realize what a good candidate mitt romney is and what a challenge to the president he will represent" (I was surprised by the fact that the person got the words out without choking).  Another libe confidently told me that Paul and Santorum are the next herman cains, respectively.  The twinkle in his eye told me that the same folks who brought you the herman cain debacle are now going to bring you the Paul/Santorum debacles.  Same person told me that Bachman will be out of it by Wednesday morning and so, he thinks, will "the other mormon".  He didn't mention mittens or the newt though which I thought fascinating by their omission.

181 Go blow Donald Trump some more you pathetic troll.

182 Always good to get the mood from the insular empire of irrelevancy.

183

I wonder why people think that cutting spending is going to make a difference. Cutting spending means a depression. Not cutting spending means a depression. You can take it short and hard or long and slightly less hard, maybe. But you are going to continue to experience a depression for a long time either way.

The current depression will continue for about 10 years, no matter spending levels or anything else. It's a combination of demographics and 50 years of underfunded social spending promises. It's way too late to cut spendng and have everything be wonderful again.

Don't get the wrong impression, I'm in favor of cutting spending but it is an extreme example of delayed gratification (like 10-20 years). Which means no congress will do it until the bond-wraiths force it. Most congress critters hold office in order to get rich and get out before the bottom falls out. Pain today in exchange for better times 10 years from now is a non-starter for them.

Things could be improved at the margin by declaring an national energy emergency and going whole hog on resource extraction, along with across the board cuts of around 5% to all govt spending. Couple that with a five-year holiday from the corporate income tax and the capital gains tax and there will still be a depression, but it won't be as bad as the one the bond-wraiths will bring.

 

 

184

 Did ya hear about the Iowa Republicans deciding to hold their ballot counting at a 'secret location'? ...so that they can count the votes in secret? Their reasoning? Occupiers might show and distract them or sumpin'.

 If'n the Dems had done that - counting caucus votes - or any other votes - in secret - for any reason - you'd be raising holy hell...and rightfully so.

 When Republicans do it, not a peep.

 Left or right, it's only evil when the other guy does it, I reckon. That's the only time either side raises hell, is when the other side does the same thing they're a doin'. (lyin', cheatin' and stealin')

 Proof? Polls say...that Congressional approval ratings are at five per cent. In the real world, how many incumbents on either side will lose their jobs this year? ...or next year, or the year after that?

 iow, consensus sez...the other guy's lyin', cheatin' bastard is evil incarnate. The politician who represents *my* party is all sweetness and light, so I'll give him another chance to screw me over. The insanity is on both sides of the fence, boys and girls.

185 2 Most of the Tea Party was mad because they thought they would have their social security cut, and not that they wanted government off their backs.

Really?  That position happens also to be the position of liberal seniors, so why did the Tea Party even bother to organize, given that they already belong to a huge voting bloc and (according to you) share its position?

And how did the TP get labeled "conservative" if their position was no different from liberals'?

186 Not one vote has been cast yet, but you all act like the primary is over.  There are 49 states to go after Iowa!

187

Posted by: Auntie Diluvian at January 02, 2012 03:36 PM (ULADD)

You are correct of course. And, TEA stands for "Taxed Enough Already", not "Don't Cut SS".

The TP got labeled conservative because it got labeled racist for wanting to cut spending and starve all the poor minorities.

188 "If This Is the Best We Can Do, We Deserve To Lose"

This isn't some half-assed kind of a football game. I reject the premise.

And question the timing.

189 The VP will end up carrying the ticket for the first time in history....

190 ...and there's an increasingly high possibility that Obama, the worst President of my lifetime (and I remember Carter) - likely the worst president ever - will be reelected because of our inability to field a credible alternative.

All the more reason for the Tea Party to concentrate on getting their congressional candidates elected in the upcoming contest. Obie can't do much further damage if he doesn't have many backers.

191 Why should florists and restaurants pay corporate taxes but not manufacturers? “Because,” Santorum says, “this restaurant isn’t moving to China, right? The florist isn’t moving to China.”

Well lets do better.  Since Felons can't emigrate; lets tax them at a higher rate than non-felons.  And the handicapped have more trouble leaving the nation; so we can tax them higher.

People in comas? Just steal all their stuff, 100% wealth tax for being in a coma... what, they're going to complain?

192 People in comas? Just steal all their stuff, 100% wealth tax for being in a coma... what, they're going to complain?

Patience, my child.

193 12:"Heartless" Really???? Is that all you got????? But it's just fine to call Ryan's plan "right wing social engineering. It's just fine to say "we should repeal the bad and keep the good" when it comes to BambiCare. Good Grief...If this is the way most Americans (and in this case, Iowans) think, then we deserve exactly what we get which is either another 4 years of Bambi or 4 years of "reaching across the aisle" and "working with our friends". THEY ARE NOT OUR POLITICAL FRIENDS AND REACHING ACROSS THE AISLE MEANS CAVING TO WHAT THEY WANT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!! Can we get some 'nads please?????

194 Its Pleasure to understand your blog.The above articles is pretty extraordinary, and I really enjoyed reading your blog and points that you expressed. I really like to appear back over a typical basis,post a lot more within the topic.Thanks for sharingÂ…keep writing!!!

195 This is an excellent post. It is very informative. Thank you so much. I'll be a regular viewer.

196 I am definitely bookmarking this page and sharing it with my friends.

197 Justice Kagan the Bolshevik dyke

Defends ObamaCare day and night

Goyim like Ace won't notice or fight

Because that bitch is a too-sacred kike

198

"That's it in a nutshell, isn't it? Our choice is coming down to whether we want to run the car over the cliff at 120MPH with Obama or whether we want to clip along at a leisurely 60MPH with the eventual GOP nominee in the driver's seat for that final launch over the edge."

Or Ron Paul, but some of his supporters are nasty racists and newslestters and, uhhh, WAR!!! and errrr, yeah, so how about Perry.

199 Wow i really found this to be an interesting read; thanks for sharing

200

@62:  - "win Virginia (Newt's from neighboring Georgia"

 

The Virginia/Georgia border is strangely absent from the maps I've seen, not sure about you.

Reading from North to South, we usually see Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia.

 

Just FYI.

 

201 Test:


. Do what we tell you to do.

202 Nother test:


;">. Do what we tell you to do.