Ace of Spades HQ

July 30, 2013

July 30, 1945: The USS Indianapolis, CA-35
— Dave in Texas

On secret mission the USS Indianapolis was returning from Tinian to Leyte Gulf after having delivered the world's first operational atomic bomb.

Just a little after midnight Indianapolis was attacked by Japanese submarine I-58. They fired six torpedoes, two landed on target. One blew the bow from the ship, the second struck almost midship next to a fuel tank and powder magazine. Indianapolis sank in twelve minutes.

Twelve minutes.

Of the 1,196 aboard, about 900 made it into the water in the twelve minutes before she sank. Few life rafts were released. Most survivors wore the standard kapok life jacket. Shark attacks began with sunrise of the first day and continued until the men were physically removed from the water, almost five days later.

Rescue began on the 4th day when PBY commander Lt. Adrian Marks observed men in the waters being attacked by sharks. Disregarding a standing order not to land at sea, he put his aircraft down and rescued 56 men, putting them in the fuselage and then tying them to the wings. On the 5th day the destroyer USS Cecil Doyle (DD-36 arrived on scene at night and risking further attack used their searchlights to aid and rescue.

Of the 900 who made it into the water, almost 600 perished.

The commander, Captain Charles Butler McVay III was court-martialed and convicted for negligence. On November 6, 1968 he committed suicide with his service revolver. There were many controversies surrounding the affair, the Navy said he should have zig-zagged, others said command should have granted his request for destroyer escort. Nobody wanted to talk much about the delay in rescue operations. Officially McVay was exonerated in 2001 by Secretary of the Navy Gordon England.

Even though it's a bit inaccurate, this epic scene from Jaws is where many of us first heard the story of the Indianapolis.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at 07:45 PM | Comments (132)
Post contains 323 words, total size 2 kb.

1 Jaws?

Indianapolis?

The Navy?

Never heard of 'em.

Posted by: Charles Gibson at July 30, 2013 04:52 PM (XQzGn)

2 pisses me off to no end. Poor fuckers. I cannot imagine the carnage.

Posted by: Yip at July 30, 2013 04:53 PM (/jHWN)

3 After reading this and letting it sink in, pretty hard to say, let it burn

Posted by: Misanthropic humanitarian, now with 50% more sensitivity at July 30, 2013 04:53 PM (HVff2)

4 Greetings: As much as I truly understand that the only history we are to remember about WW II's Pacific Theater is Japanese-American internment and the dropping of the A-bombs, I can't help but still enjoy my infantryman father's take on the latter. "The only thing wrong with the A-bombings," he would intone, "was we only had two.

Posted by: 11B40 at July 30, 2013 04:58 PM (JZ3eJ)

5 All this racist talk about how the white sharks are 'great'...

Racist crackers

Posted by: Race Card Reverend Al at July 30, 2013 04:58 PM (Pr6hk)

6 Here's the book on it: http://tinyurl.com/ko5st2s I know Paul Murphy -- bought a pickup from him in 2004. Good price, but he required me to include one of my "Sink Kerry Swiftly" bumper stickers.

Posted by: jwb7605 [i](L.I.B.)[/i][/u][/b] at July 30, 2013 04:59 PM (Qxe/p)

7 Farewell and adieu to ye fair Spanish ladies...

Posted by: trump at July 30, 2013 04:59 PM (F8Lnm)

8 What a terrible way to die.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit at July 30, 2013 05:00 PM (0HooB)

Unfortunately, the court martial was a coverup for the Navy screwing up.

Posted by: exhelodrvr at July 30, 2013 05:01 PM (edmTQ)

10 2 pisses me off to no end. Poor fuckers. I cannot imagine the carnage. Posted by: Yip at July 30, 2013 08:53 PM (/jHWN) They had to use fishing nets to pull the survivors out. The first guy's skin came off his arms when they tried the "conventional" method.

Posted by: jwb7605 [i](L.I.B.)[/i][/u][/b] at July 30, 2013 05:03 PM (Qxe/p)

11 I have only one fear that's acute enough to approach a phobia, and it's sharks. I like seeing them and even occasionally catching them, but in reality, the big Mammer-Jammers scare the shit out of me.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 30, 2013 05:04 PM (ZshNr)

12 11 I have only one fear that's acute enough to approach a phobia, and it's sharks. I like seeing them and even occasionally catching them, but in reality, the big Mammer-Jammers scare the shit out of me. Posted by: Lincolntf at July 30, 2013 09:04 PM (ZshNr) Paul told me that as far as he could tell, the sharks were only eating sailors that died and were floating dead.

Posted by: jwb7605 [i](L.I.B.)[/i][/u][/b] at July 30, 2013 05:06 PM (Qxe/p)

13 war really stinks. That's why you want to make sure that everyone else knows that if one of them starts a war, we will finish it and they will regret it. Col Ralph Peters wrote some years ago (I am paraphrasing) that "if another country attacks you, you not only want to beat them back, but you want to give them such a beating that it will be three generations before they even begin to think about attacking you again"

Or you can be a liberal Democrat and loudly wonder what sins we have committed to have caused this...

liberal = progressive = marxist = religion

Posted by: Mallfly at July 30, 2013 05:06 PM (bJm7W)

14 The proximate cause of the rescue delay was a change in operational control from one Fleet to another during the transit to Leyte Gulf. At the time, there was no system in place to track actual ship's movements, especially between different fleets. The specific IJN submarine escaped the intellegence community's positioning and monitoring, as a report from the IJN sub on sinking a large ship was disregarded as braggadocio. The ship was under radio silence also. Improvements were made. Since 1945, the Navy used a system for tracking ships called MOVEREPS for movement reports. Every ship sent a message outlining where it will be. The onus was on the ship to be within 4 hours of the reported position, or send a new MOVEREP message. Today, we have GPS, weather reports, etc. In addition, Navy ships sent a message when they entered a different operational commander's control area.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 30, 2013 05:06 PM (u82oZ)

That scene from Jaws, BTW, was written by Robert Shaw - he didn't like the scene as it was originally written, so he did his own re-write.

Apparently he was 3 sheets to the wind when they filmed it, too - method acting, y'know.....

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at July 30, 2013 05:06 PM (ADnWI)

16 Salty Dog, I remember reading years ago that we lost more people to food poisoning than to combat in the 1898 war with Spain. Thank God we have Michelle Obama to worry about what we eat.

Posted by: Mallfly at July 30, 2013 05:09 PM (bJm7W)

17 I must say that I am very surprised that anyone would dare suggest military brass would play cya with a field commander. Now you'll be saying Teddy Kennedy can't swim

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstien from Brattleboro VT at July 30, 2013 05:10 PM (BTguA)

18 God Bless you brave men of the USS Indianapolis....

you delivered the bomme....

Posted by: sven10077 at July 30, 2013 05:11 PM (LRFds)

19 15 Teresa in Ft Worth,

Robert Shaw was a hella good actor...

and his rewrite was more powerful than the adaption of the novel.

Posted by: sven10077 at July 30, 2013 05:16 PM (LRFds)

20 It's not clear that routine zig-zagging has any benefit in avoiding sub attacks. It makes your ship harder to hit BUT you spend more time at sea allowing for more opportunities to BE attacked. And I've read more than one sub commander write about a target that was out of range except that it zigged back towards him and allowed for an attack. Note that a fast escort zig-zagging while it is with a slow convoy is another deal. In that case, the escort will spend the same amount of time at sea zig-zag or no.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 30, 2013 05:18 PM (5YUSx)

21 There was a brave lad in Florida, I think it was, a youngster, about 20 years ago who took it upon himself to mount an effort to clear Capt. McVay.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at July 30, 2013 05:20 PM (l3vZN)

22 > 16 Salty Dog, I remember reading years ago that we lost more people to food poisoning than to combat in the 1898 war with Spain. Posted by: Mallfly The 1905 Russo-Japanese war was the first in history that had more combat casualties than disease.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 30, 2013 05:20 PM (5YUSx)

23 That scene from Jaws, BTW, was written by Robert Shaw - he didn't like the scene as it was originally written, so he did his own re-write.

Apparently he was 3 sheets to the wind when they filmed it, too - method acting, y'know.....

---------------------

Not quite. He was very drunk on the first day they shot the scene. It was so bad and he was afraid that he completely screwed things up that he came back the next day and did it stone cold sober. That's the version from the movie. They dedicated several minutes to that scene in the Biography Channel episode of Jaws: Behind the Movie.

Posted by: sluggo at July 30, 2013 05:20 PM (vVv3V)

24 Here it is: 1996 when an eleven-year-old boy, Hunter Scott, for Pensacola, Florida, saw the movie "Jaws" and was moved by the very accurate soliloquy of one of the actors who explained his hatred of the sharks by telling his story of surviving the attack upon the Indianapolis. When told the actor was describing an event which was true, young Hunter began researching the story for what became an award-winning school history project but then, still fascinated, pursued it further, obtaining addresses of all survivors to whom he sent a questionnaire. One of the questions was whether they felt Captain McVay's court-martial was justified and his conviction fair. As he subsequently testified in a hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee on September 15, 1999, "all of the responses I got back were unanimous, and most were strongly worded in outrage and anger" over the Navy's treatment of Captain McVay. These responses set Hunter Scott on a crusade to clear Captain McVay's name. Because of his youth, he attracted media attention which, in turn, attracted the attention of the Survivors Organization and that of his member of Congress, Representative Joe Scarborough. This led to invitations, first to the 1996 survivors' reunion in Indianapolis, then to join a group of survivors in Hawaii in 1997 for a short trip on the nuclear submarine the USS Indianapolis.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at July 30, 2013 05:22 PM (l3vZN)

25 Ignore the fact that it's Ken Burns, but find the episode of "The War" (episode 6 or 7) with the interview of Maurice Bell from Mobile, AL. He was on board the Indianapolis when she went down.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 30, 2013 05:24 PM (+98Gb)

26 My uncle was a Quartermaster in the U.S. Navy during WWII, serving mostly on destroyers. In the summer of '45 he met up with some buddies of his who tried to convince him to transfer to their ship... it was bigger, had an ice cream parlor, didn't bounce around like a destroyer. He was tempted but something told him to decline, which he did. That ship was the USS Indianapolis. Gives me shivers just writing this...

Posted by: GuyfromNH at July 30, 2013 05:26 PM (kbOju)

27 Comrade Arthur, In the court-martial trial of CAPT McVay the Japanese submarine commander testified for the prosecution. He did say that zig-zagging may not have helped. Bottom line, do not lose your heavy cruiser just as the war ends and censorship is removed. The USN to this day hates adverse press publicity more than ignominious defeat by an enemy. This references the fate of the captains that lost heavy cruisers at the Battle of Savo Island and today's CAPT Honors removal as CO of the USS Enterprise (CVN-65). The real sub avoidance the USN used then was breaking the IJN codes and avoiding the reported positions of their subs. This is one time it did not work.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 30, 2013 05:26 PM (u82oZ)

28 24 Amazing. He can be glad he didn't try this during the Obama years. The FBI would be all up his ass.

Posted by: Dept. Of Acuracy at July 30, 2013 05:26 PM (MhA4j)

29 I always admired that young fellow.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at July 30, 2013 05:29 PM (l3vZN)

30 Maurice Bell, 1925-2009 USS Indianapolis, RIP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa5HkxYvjAo

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 30, 2013 05:30 PM (+98Gb)

31 This thread won't get the exposure it deserves. It is a real counterpoint to the featherweights of today.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at July 30, 2013 05:33 PM (l3vZN)

32 Mallfly, It's only very recently that war casualties from diseases are less than enemy-inflicted casualties. The losses in the Spanish American War were mainly due to poor sanitation, poor medical technology, and poor water quality. Even low-tech measures like good latrines and sand filtering water would have greatly reduced our casualties. We do an outstanding job avoiding disease today, except in Zimbabwe, Detroit, and other Democrativc infested places.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 30, 2013 05:33 PM (u82oZ)

33 21 Jinx the Cat, That person was McVay's son.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 30, 2013 05:36 PM (u82oZ)

34 We owe all of them so very much, and as each day of my life passes, I see how we have let them down. My heart just breaks.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 30, 2013 05:37 PM (+98Gb)

35 The un-stompening.

God bless those men. Can't imagine a horror worse.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 30, 2013 05:39 PM (lVPtV)

36 J.J. Sefton, #30: Thank you for that clip. I didn't know Mr. Bell's story.

Posted by: JPS at July 30, 2013 05:39 PM (9ziuC)

37 Stepping on the ONT? Bad form.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 30, 2013 05:41 PM (wR+pz)

38 NaCly Dog: see # 24....math doesn't work, for Capt McVay died much earlier than this lad's birthday.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at July 30, 2013 05:41 PM (l3vZN)

39 "Officially McVay was exonerated in 2001 by Secretary of the Navy Gordon England" Ray Mabus, of course, would only have acted if a way could have been found to glorify the Democratic Party or clients.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 05:42 PM (7BwYs)

40 That was terror, real terror. Hollywood can't touch that.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet Palin/Bolton 2016 at July 30, 2013 05:42 PM (XIxXP)

41 That scene in Jaws is the one that always gives me the most chills.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at July 30, 2013 05:42 PM (sQ0LB)

42 I read In Harm's Way by Doug Stanton about the mission and sinking of the Indianapolis. I recommend it.

Posted by: huerfano at July 30, 2013 05:43 PM (bAGA/)

43 I've been bumped by a shark in shallow water.

Will freak the hell out of you.

Cannot imagine the horror of having the buddy next to you being eaten, and waiting your turn.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 30, 2013 05:44 PM (lVPtV)

44 Stepping on the ONT? Bad form

Now go easy on Dave in Texas. The sundial he was gifted as a young boy is on the fritz, and he's not yet been won over by those new fangled pendulum timepieces. Being powered by witchcraft and all.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 30, 2013 05:45 PM (X9Mnx)

45 I wanted to throw this in here, too, since we're playing musical threads.

Being a terminal smartass and believer in capitalism and entrepreneurship, I spent for hours setting up a laugh for the Moron Horde:

http://www.cafepress.com/teabillypride

Enjoy!

Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 05:45 PM (U22Yw)

46 Oh, one needs to go look at loss rates for ships in WWII. Horrible. When a ship goes down, a lot of folks usually die. Very different from land combat in that way. No 10%, 20% losses. 3 guys survived from HMS Hood. Out of 1,418. One of the things our Navy needs to emphasize more. No points for second place.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 05:46 PM (7BwYs)

47 Isn't the Navy doing away with their insane blue camo? I mean, man overboard, and they're wearing blue?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 30, 2013 05:47 PM (lVPtV)

48 One of the things our Navy needs to emphasize more. No points for second place.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 09:46 PM (7BwYs)

Which is why they took all the Long Range Surface to Surface missiles OFF the surface combatants...

/facepalm

Posted by: DHS Web Monitoring Project, a Division of Haliburton at July 30, 2013 05:48 PM (lZBBB)

49 Indianapolis, of course, was Spruance's flagship at the Marianas Turkey Shoot.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 05:48 PM (7BwYs)

50 47 Isn't the Navy doing away with their insane blue camo? I mean, man overboard, and they're wearing blue?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 30, 2013 09:47 PM (lVPtV)

Not only that.... turns out the stuff MELTS in high heat.... like when you... oh... fight a fire.... like the entire crew is trained to do?

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 30, 2013 05:49 PM (lZBBB)

51 I think our Marine son said the Navy is looking at adopting the Corp's camo. Could be wrong (it was during a talk on Skype and wine may have been involved on my end).

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 30, 2013 05:51 PM (lVPtV)

52 Not only that.... turns out the stuff MELTS in high heat.... like when you... oh... fight a fire.... like the entire crew is trained to do? Posted by: Romeo13
-----------

I can't imagine that is a suprise. Melted polypropylene thermal underwear was a big problem for the bruned seamen on the Sheffield when it got hit.

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 30, 2013 05:51 PM (aDwsi)

53 T., #46: "3 guys survived from HMS Hood. Out of 1,418." I saw a documentary once on the Hood sinking. They showed a picture of all hands in front of the ship, taken before that fateful voyage. Then I think they greyed out everyone but the survivors. They interviewed one of them. I cannot imagine being one of those three. "One of the things our Navy needs to emphasize more. No points for second place." Which reminds me of the story last year when some admiral told the Navy's EOD school to take down the unofficial motto, "Initial success or total failure." Worried it was insensitive to the families of those lost in EOD. I think the phrase honors all of them, but I'm insensitive that way.

Posted by: JPS at July 30, 2013 05:52 PM (9ziuC)

54 From 1994-96 I was stationed on a buoy tender homeported in Guam. We worked the buoys at Sunharon Roads, Tinian a few times per year (minimum). Although swimmer-friendly Saipan, Rota, and Guam are all very near, nobody sane goes swimming off Tinian's beaches for fun. "Shark infested waters" is putting it mildly. Add in the frequent port calls of tuna long liners, and I'm amazed the tigersharks, hammerheads, great whites, and such don't slither up onto the beach to grab the locals. You want a plausible locale for Sharknado 2? Tinian, baby.

Posted by: OhioCoastie at July 30, 2013 05:52 PM (9m3Zl)

55 Is the Navy getting rid of that camo crap? That had "chief with mediocre master's in leadership and expert historical knowledge from Discovery Channel written all over it."

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 05:53 PM (7BwYs)

56 T., [Navy camo] had "chief with mediocre master's in leadership and expert historical knowledge from Discovery Channel written all over it." I was thinking OER bullet....

Posted by: JPS at July 30, 2013 05:54 PM (9ziuC)

57 I can tell y'all how the whole aquaflage thing got started in the Navy, if you like.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 05:55 PM (U22Yw)

58 Country Singer: Really, or is this the setup to a joke? I'm curious.

Posted by: JPS at July 30, 2013 05:56 PM (9ziuC)

59 As usual.....Nicely done, Dave in Texas.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 30, 2013 05:57 PM (gqgiP)

60 /teabillypride
Enjoy!
Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 09:45 PM (U22Yw)
Sounds like a brand of sausage.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 30, 2013 05:58 PM (xGjmy)

61 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuO4BfnlDY8&feature=youtube_gdata_player I've been meaning to put together a list of Solomon Islands battles and casaulaty rates together for the longest time, but it's not like I would have anybody to show it too anyway. Once it became clear to be Proceedings was just how folks lobbied the Hill for budgets, and wasn't for the improvement of the service, I dropped it without regret. After 24 years of membership, starting when I was 16.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 05:58 PM (7BwYs)

62 We shall not see the likes of them again.

Posted by: teh Wind at July 30, 2013 05:58 PM (b+5vQ)

63 Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 30, 2013 09:45 PM (X9Mnx)

Hey! The ONT is supposed to come at 2200, + or - a few minutes.

We are trained to expect it, and any deviation is unacceptable.

Posted by: Pavlov'sDildo at July 30, 2013 05:59 PM (gqgiP)

64 I hear ya, T. Proceedings (and the USNI) have withered to uselessness. Better to drop by CDR Salamander's place.

Posted by: OhioCoastie at July 30, 2013 06:01 PM (9m3Zl)

65 36 J.J. Sefton, #30: Thank you for that clip. I didn't know Mr. Bell's story. Posted by: JPS at July 30, 2013 09:39 PM (9ziuC) Every year around Memorial Day, I watch the entire series and cry my eyes out. I did not know that Mr. Bell had passed on, as he was always so very much alive when I saw him. Naive, I suppose. I started to try and find out more about each person featured in the show, but it is so sad to find out that one or more are no longer with us.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 30, 2013 06:02 PM (+98Gb)

66 Seriously. It had it's origins in the 90s. The only reason I know is because I was one of the ones advocating it. I was on the DESRON ONE designated dog and pony show, the USS John A. Moore (FFG-19) in the 90s. Any time a VIP showed up in San Diego to "hit the boilerplates and talk to the guys," they showed up on our ship.

One of the unvarying things that happened was a Q&A with the crew. We hated the dungarees worn at that time for a number of reasons:

1) They made us look like convicts.
2) They were easily ruined by paint, POL, etc.
3) The flame retardant properties were questionable at best.

What we consistently asked for was one or the other of two things:

A- To be allowed to wear the same flame retardant coveralls while onboard the ship that the engineers wore.

or

B- Some sort of dark gray or camo pattern that would
a) better conceal stains
b) not require us to tuck our socks into (assuming trousers would be bloused)
c) also have flame retardant properties

Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 06:03 PM (U22Yw)

67 The Prince of Wales, of course, would be lost in December of the same year at the hands of the Japanese. But just a bunch of racist white guys, right?

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:03 PM (7BwYs)

68 64 Daily.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:04 PM (7BwYs)

69 Later, the Navy went to coveralls for use shipboard/underway. Then they felt they had to keep up with the other services and designed the aquaflage.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 06:05 PM (U22Yw)

70 wow, what a supercool story, DiT!!! I might even send it to the dadster, who served on a carrier in the pacific right around that time.

Posted by: Peaches at July 30, 2013 06:06 PM (8lmkt)

71 "3 After reading this and letting it sink in, pretty hard to say, let it burn" Oh my, let it burn like the surface of the sun. Let it burn and then make the rubble crumble. Let no stone stand upon another. Let it all be dust blowing in the wind. No mercy, no quarter. Unconditional surrender or death. Nothing else makes sense.

Posted by: angel with a sword at July 30, 2013 06:07 PM (EO34X)

72 In Dave's defense, who has ever seen an ONT this early?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectal at July 30, 2013 06:07 PM (wR+pz)

73 66 I still have my plankowner cap smothered in gray paint from painting the underside of the main condenser, when I basically became a human paint brush because of the two foot clearance. I presume I'm going to get cancer one day from that single episode.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:09 PM (7BwYs)

74 okay, by "cool" I meant really interesting and tragic. do disrespect . . . please forgive . . . you know i'm not like some content freak.

Posted by: Peaches at July 30, 2013 06:09 PM (8lmkt)

75 70 Which one?

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:11 PM (7BwYs)

76 Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 10:09 PM (7BwYs)

I know the feeling. I had a damn fan room as a part of my space. Actually, it came in handy in deciding whether or not chow was worth going to or not, as the fan in it was the galley exhaust. We could tell what they were serving by the smells. But it was a real bitch to keep cleaned and painted.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 06:14 PM (U22Yw)

77 Which one?

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 10:11 PM (7BwYs)

I believe it was the Ranger, T., although I've done some digging and apparently there were a LOT of Rangers over the years. He was a signalman (USN). Before that, he was on a liberty ship, which sounds like fun. He also had a crooked finger from a bar fight in the Philippines . . . busted it on the jaw of Pretty Boy Floyd's son. One of the very few war stories with which I am acquainted from him.

Posted by: Peaches at July 30, 2013 06:14 PM (8lmkt)

78 74 okay, by "cool" Nothing is 'cool' peaches in this day and age unless its a 1911A1 or a 30 cal sighted in at 400 yards.

Posted by: angel with a sword at July 30, 2013 06:14 PM (EO34X)

79 I just read the wiki on the USS Mount Hood, a munitions ship. I found it interesting that the only survivors had just reached port to pick up mail, and two to face trial for court martial. Now I wonder what happened to them.

Posted by: Justamom at July 30, 2013 06:16 PM (Sptt8)

80 Nothing is 'cool' peaches in this day and age unless its a 1911A1 or a 30 cal sighted in at 400 yards.

Posted by: angel with a sword at July 30, 2013 10:14 PM (EO34X)

My virgin Ruger is pretty cool . . . and extremely beautiful.

Posted by: Peaches at July 30, 2013 06:17 PM (8lmkt)

81 The Ranger, CV-4, served most of the war in the Atlantic, but chopped over to the Pac in '44 to train night-fighters off Hawaii, so if he was in the big war, it is CV-4. Otherwise, it is the Forrestal-class ship.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:17 PM (7BwYs)

82 I saved the links, T. He was on the 7th USS Ranger. He wasn't in in '44. He lied about his age right about that time and enlisted, so probably deployed in '45 and on the Ranger maybe a year later, given the liberty ship thing.

Posted by: Peaches at July 30, 2013 06:19 PM (8lmkt)

83 McVey was court martialed for losing his command through negligence and getting his men killed.

JFK was decorated for losing his command through negligence and getting his men killed.

Good to have friends (and a father) in high places.

The officer who wrote the after-action report on the PT-109 was a fellow by the name of Byron White. White and Kennedy had been personal friends before the war, traveling in Europe together. White's report exonerated JFK though it could as easily have convicted him.

Kennedy put White on the Supreme Court.

Good to have friends in high places.

Posted by: Flashkard at July 30, 2013 06:21 PM (u3N3z)

84 76 Bubblehead here, and the fan room was part of our cleaning spaces. As was the head. In fact, I consider myself the best head cleaner in the United States Navy, bar none. The secret is the bug juice packets. Works wonders on the stainless steel. Join the Navy. You may or may not see the world, but you *will* become a first-class janitor.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:21 PM (7BwYs)

85 82 You can check it on Wiki--Ranger served out the war in '45 in the Pac, got decommed in '46.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:23 PM (7BwYs)

86 My 84 I'm pretty deadly with a buffer too. Sub School time.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:24 PM (7BwYs)

87 The secret is the bug juice packets. Works wonders on the stainless steel.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 10:21 PM (7BwYs)

Does a damn fine job of taking verdigris off of brass, as well!

Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 06:25 PM (U22Yw)

88 87 Don't get me started on newspaper for polishing nametags.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:27 PM (7BwYs)

89 You can check it on Wiki--Ranger served out the war in '45 in the Pac, got decommed in '46.

Yup, that's the one the dadster served on. Here are non-wiki links about the Rangers:

http://www.uss-rangerguy.com/history_uss_rangers3.htm

Interestingly, the very first USS Ranger ended up as part of the British Navy after they captured it.

Posted by: Peaches at July 30, 2013 06:29 PM (8lmkt)

90 Here's the other link (fuckin' pixy, so tempermental, so inconsistent)

http://www.uss-rangerguy.com/cv_4.htm

Posted by: Peaches at July 30, 2013 06:30 PM (8lmkt)

91 88 Never had to try that one.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 06:30 PM (U22Yw)

92 91 OCS. Brasso and newspaper take the machine marks off, make the tag glossy.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:33 PM (7BwYs)

93 90 Reason I am so up on her right now is that I was looking at her a week or two ago, thinking what nice lines she had (esp. the portholes in those pre-AC days) and how the size would perhaps be useful today (14,000 tons or so).

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:35 PM (7BwYs)

94 89 Most of the Continental Navy was captured. Like just about all of it, except two or three ships.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:37 PM (7BwYs)

95 My dad says it was like a floating city, so many on board. I think a couple-three thousand.

Posted by: Peaches at July 30, 2013 06:37 PM (8lmkt)

96 >> In Dave's defense, who has ever seen an ONT this early? I didn't bump it, maet did, which was nice of him. We try coordination. We pretty much suck at it.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 30, 2013 06:42 PM (pUqSw)

97 15. That scene from Jaws, BTW, was written by Robert Shaw - he didn't like the scene as it was originally written, so he did his own re-write.

Apparently he was 3 sheets to the wind when they filmed it, too - method acting, y'know.....

****

I recall hearing that John Milius, who Spielberg brought in to doctor the script, contributed substantially to that scene.

Milius is one of the great conservatives in Hollywood, responsible for Dirty Harry, Apocalypse Now ("Charlie don't surf") Conan the Barbarian ("Conan, what is best in life?") and Red Dawn ("Avenge me!"), the book end cemetery scenes in Saving Private Ryan ("Tell me I'm a good man. Tell me I led a good life.") and other great anti-commie works.

Posted by: Flashkard at July 30, 2013 06:42 PM (u3N3z)

98 You know, I just never got that feeling on the Nimitzes. Never thought they were *that* big, like Death Star big. Of course, I rarely went down below the O2 level. (I think my stateroom was on the 02).

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:43 PM (7BwYs)

99 My brother left the Forestall for the Ranger just before the Forestall fire. I enlisted the same year of the fire and had the flight deck film as part of my firefighting school at Norfolk. Scary. No sharks though.

Posted by: EROWMER at July 30, 2013 06:45 PM (OONaw)

100 99 "Learn or Burn, Baby, Learn or Burn" Good film.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:46 PM (7BwYs)

101 Posted by: EROWMER at July 30, 2013 10:45 PM (OONaw)

I wouldn't be surprised if they're still showing that film. I know I saw it in '93 when I was going through Orlando.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 06:52 PM (U22Yw)

102 "Sailors to the End" is a good book, and the entire episode of the Forrestal is a good case study in system safety and defense management. Not the flight deck stuff, but the assigment of the bombs, the limited stocks of more modern stuff, the acceptance issues on the CV, and the punishment of the skipper, which appears unjust, but perhaps wasn't.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:53 PM (7BwYs)

103 101 A certain year in Great Lakes, and perhaps at Norfolk. My memory is from Great Lakes.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:54 PM (7BwYs)

104 Also 101 I really doubt they could do any better today. Guys in the late 60s had either been in WWII, or had known or been trained by guys that had. There was a certain amount of tacit knowledge just not to be had today. Same goes with Hollywood. Actors in the 60s didn't need to go to "boot camps" to appear reasonably authentic, even if they had never been in, because they were surrounded by sources. These days? It's like a caricature sometimes.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 06:58 PM (7BwYs)

105 Jinx the Cat at July 30, 2013 09:41 PM (l3vZN) My bad. It was Kimmel's grandson that was trying to clear Kimmel.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 30, 2013 06:58 PM (u82oZ)

106 104 Concur!

Posted by: Country Singer at July 30, 2013 06:59 PM (U22Yw)

107 105 And Beach before he died.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 07:01 PM (7BwYs)

108 The training film on the Forrestal was "Trial By Fire," "Learn or Burn" was what they kept saying. BTW, the pilot on the A-4 whose rocket "cooked off" to start everything was John McCain.

Posted by: exhelodrvr at July 30, 2013 07:03 PM (edmTQ)

109 My grandfather served in the Coast Guard in the Pacific on an attack transport (they landed troops, gear, and ammo on invasion beaches). He once told me a story about a near collision at sea towards the end of the war while they were in transit to Tinian, with munitions for the B 29s stationed there.

They were traveling alone due to the large amount of ammo on board, and were blacked out. At O-dark-30, someone sounded the alarm and everyone scrambled for their combat stations. They were passing another ship, much larger and also blacked out, going in the opposite direction (and extremely close). He said they could see sailors looking down at them from the rails of the other ship in the moonlight.

They hauled ass out of the area, not knowing who the other ship belonged to, and a few hours later heard and saw an explosion behind them. Since subs liked to use the fires of their victims to silhouette other ships, their SOP was to move away from the explosion. They reported the contact and were told no US ships were in the area.

Years later, he heard about the Indianapolis, and was sure that was the ship they saw that night.

Posted by: elliot at July 30, 2013 07:04 PM (8zGOf)

110 109 A few months back I did a quick tabulation of the losses and combat damage to the pre-war havy cruisers. Basically, if they were in the Pac, they were sunk or got hit at least once.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 07:10 PM (7BwYs)

111 My 110 "heavy", not "havy"

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 07:11 PM (7BwYs)

112 What?

Returning from Tinian to Leyte Gulf?

We got an A-Bomb from the Philippines?

Posted by: Obamao at July 30, 2013 07:21 PM (e+pdj)

113 No, I won't comment.

Posted by: Kos at July 30, 2013 07:22 PM (bDUMn)

114 The commander of the Japanese sub that sunk the Indianapolis said that zig-zagging would have made NO difference. http://tinyurl.com/mllo96y

I believe it -- he fired six torpedoes at the ship; like a ten ton shotgun blast. Two hit the Indianopolis.

Posted by: Die Trying at July 30, 2013 07:27 PM (w7J/R)

115 The Indiannapolis sank so quickly precisely because the first torpedo took off the bow. The ship's engines continued to run causing the ship to plow into the water with an open hole in the front. The effect was that seawater was force fed into the ship's interior. As the ship was sinking, it's fuel spilt all over the surrounding sea, which caused men in the water to suck fuel down into their stomachs, burning out their esophaguses and stomachs. Hundreds probably died a horrible death within hours because of this. This is a little appreciated fact about this horrible story; the majority of the men died in the sinking and the immediate aftermath

Posted by: Callmelennie at July 30, 2013 07:36 PM (Z6Bqu)

116 113 First time I've heard the name Kos in years. Lord's truth. The Age of Obama have not increased his strength. Of course, historicaly, only so much room in the world for little corporals.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 07:38 PM (7BwYs)

117 Just wanted to say, "Miguel Ambivalence@sven10077" mentioned this on the morning thread http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=342071#c20972865 and I was curious, so I appreciated the post about it, Dave in Texas.

Posted by: mindful webworker, really I only went there for the articles at July 30, 2013 07:40 PM (U13jb)

118 115 Yeah, from reading the histories, fuel oil is worse than we imagine. I remember the photos of Bismarck survivors waiting to get on British destroyers, soaked in oil, trying to climb up knotted ropes while coated in it.

Posted by: T. at July 30, 2013 07:42 PM (7BwYs)

119 Indianapolis was one fine lookin' ship. Sleek and mean. rip.

Posted by: and irresolute at July 30, 2013 07:57 PM (DBH1h)

120 WTF?! Are we playing musical threads or something?

Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 30, 2013 08:02 PM (aDwsi)

121 As the ship was sinking, it's fuel spilt all over the surrounding sea, which caused men in the water to suck fuel down into their stomachs, burning out their esophaguses and stomachs. Hundreds probably died a horrible death within hours because of this.
It could have been on fire. Horrible deaths either way.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 30, 2013 08:41 PM (xGjmy)

122 It's a madhouse here tonight, I tells ya.

Posted by: Gem at July 30, 2013 08:43 PM (zw+pb)

123 I'm glad this one won the thread war, tho. Pretty powerful stuff.

Posted by: Gem at July 30, 2013 08:46 PM (zw+pb)

124 BTW, the pilot on the A-4whose rocket "cooked off" to start everything was John McCain.

Posted by: exhelodrvr at July 30, 2013 11:03 PM (edmTQ)

NO IT WAS NOT! McCain's aircraft was NEXT TO the one that got hit by a rocket fired from an F-4 PHANTOM due to stray voltage in the fire control circuit.

Posted by: GGE of the Moron Horde, NC Chapter at July 30, 2013 09:20 PM (xa1/W)

125 fa-get bout dis ONT ignance an stay talkin bout de things dees brave mens done for us all up in heuh -- Shirley Q Liquor

Posted by: NCwoof at July 30, 2013 09:31 PM (aUQgu)

126 a doll's eyes it is.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That (Ecclesiates 9:11) at July 30, 2013 09:39 PM (28TG+)

127 What a bad deal. Deliver the bomba and then get eaten by monsters in the sea. And the boys in the water had no clue; they didn't even get to know what they had safeguarded across the ocean. If only someone could have told them of the thousands and thousands of lives that they helped save, then it might have made some sense. But it never did, never will I suppose. That's the ante. Ain't it a strange table that we have gotten plunked down at. Yahweh, next time, try not to be so absent and so cryptic. Please.

Posted by: and irresolute at July 30, 2013 09:42 PM (DBH1h)

128 120 WTF?! Are we playing musical threads or something? Posted by: Mike Hammer at July 31, 2013 12:02 AM (aDwsi) 123 I'm glad this one won the thread war, tho. Pretty powerful stuff. Posted by: Gem Some of the Remembrance threads aren't as easily engaged as the average 'outrage' stuff.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at July 30, 2013 09:53 PM (yPX0e)

129 Thank you for remembering this. We in Indianapolis, Indiana remember it as a very solemn occasion and remember those that gave there lives for us. Many of the survivors came to town last year for an unveiling of a monument to those that perished.

Posted by: Gordon at July 31, 2013 05:43 AM (O7DCr)

130 ayyy the ONT finally jumped the shark, the shark in this thread.

Posted by: the fonz' at July 31, 2013 05:56 AM (EMr2t)

131 The son tells me swim call on his ship is referred to as "chumming for sharks".

Posted by: Dick at July 31, 2013 08:35 AM (GrtrJ)

132 Useless Trivia Update: Robert Shaw wrote that speech himself. He also wrote "The Man in the Glass Booth."

Posted by: Soylent Green at July 31, 2013 09:17 AM (M/WbE)

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