November 15, 2012
— rdbrewer Writing in the Wall Street Journal:
Turnout dropped by 7.9 million voters, falling to 123.6 million this year from 131.5 million in 2008. This is the first decline in a presidential election in 16 years. Only 51.3% of the voting-age population went to the polls.While the Democratic "ground game" was effective, President Barack Obama received 90.1% of his 2008 total while Gov. Mitt Romney received 98.6% of Sen. John McCain's vote.
(Emphasis mine.) Rove then goes on to list tactical reasons for the failure.
- Republicans must re-examine their 72-hour ground game.
- Republicans must emulate the Democrats 50-state strategy.
- Republicans must erase the Democrats' data advantage and add to the voter rolls likely Republican voters.
- Frame the issues better to resonate with middle-class families. This one is interesting, because Rove identifies it as a strategic concern but then immediately attributes it to a tactical failure:
- "One reason the GOP didn't do better with its pro-growth agenda was that Mr. Romney's character and record were undermined by early, relentless personal attacks that went largely unanswered."
- Republicans must do better with Hispanics and millennials.
- "Republicans need not jettison their principles." Note: This is Karl Rove talking about Republican principles. Presumably that means principles like the Medicare prescription drug benefit (the largest new entitlement program since the 1960's), No Child Left Behind (the federalization of K-12 education), and the Patriot Act (including TSA nude-o-scopes, airport body rub-downs, and a shocking weakening of the Fourth Amendment warrant requirement). Are those Republican principles? Of course not. But the fact that Republicans like Karl Rove think they are sheds light on why we've been losing elections.
- Republicans must reduce the destructiveness of the primaries.
- Hold the convention earlier.
What is missing from Rove's list? Hint: The GOP has won only one popular vote since George H.W. Bush rode in on Ronald Reagan's coattails in 1988. What is similar about every candidate since Reagan? What did Bush-41, Bush-43, Dole, McCain, and Romney all have in common? This is indeed an "elephant in the living room" question, because what Rove refuses to see is that the Republican party hasn't run a conservative since 1984. Since then, we have had a never-ending stream of big government, establishment, Rockefeller Republicans--people who think we can out-Democrat the Democrats and in some cases out-bid them for votes. These are people who think government is just fine, that it's only there to help, and that the important thing is not to limit it but to be in control of it.
These are people who say things like "kinder, gentler nation" (ceding an aspect of Democrat bigotry: that Republicans are somehow cruel) and "compassionate conservatism" (Was Ronald Reagan cruel? Did he lack compassion?). These are people whose knee-jerk reaction last week was to argue--once again--for moderation. In fact, you could feel them dying to argue Mitt Romney ran as a conservative. But that argument didn't quite fit. Romney ran as a pro-government intervention corporatist. His passing mention of "government-centered society" on a few occasions did not make him a conservative.
We cannot buy votes. "Kinder, gentler" didn't purchase a thing for George H.W. Bush, for example. Establishment Republicans should be required to put two and two together correctly for a change. We need a conservative candidate who can make the case for limited government and federalism. (Note that "federalize" and "federalism" are two different things.)
Establishment Republicans have had their chance, repeatedly, and they have blown it, repeatedly. Let me suggest a strategy that will sweep away all of Karl Rove's tactical concerns: Our next nominee should be a limited government constitutional conservative, someone who will dust off Reagan's winning playbook and use it to motivate the base while picking up independents and blue-dog Democrats along the way. Just like Ronald Reagan did.
Posted by: rdbrewer at
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Posted by: Golan Globus at November 15, 2012 03:05 PM (/1U3u)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (XkWWK)
Posted by: Andy at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (OZPoa)
He doesn't care what the guys supposedly on our "team" actually stand for. Snowe? Great! Chafee? Wonderful! Spector? Okay, as long as he's got an R after his name. It's all a big game of numbers to Rove.
It would be nice if the GOP actually stood for something instead of being the "we're the Democrats, just 25 years earlier" party. Heck, we might even start winning some elections if we had an actual GOVERNING PHILOSOPHY and candidates who were actually committed to it.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (QKKT0)
I don't think the next Repub choice will have much to say about the economy, though. There won't be one.
All this is based on the not-entirely-certain idea that there will be another presidential election in our lifetimes. Either we'll have a President-For-Life, or riots in the major cities will prevent voting.
No matter how you slice it, the next candidate will be more of a cleaner-of-messes than a statesman.
Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (yKUrR)
I dont disagree with your elephantine point, but compared to Obummer even a Rockefeller type is acceptable and should have won the election. In some circumstances I dont mind moderates as long as they are not the Honorable Loser type moderates.
Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (DLZfk)
Posted by: Golan Globus at November 15, 2012 03:09 PM (/1U3u)
Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (++kZl)
Maybe having a candidate who's conservative would get the conservatives to the polls. Romney didn't seem to even pull that off.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:11 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (+lsX1)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:13 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: rickl at November 15, 2012 03:13 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (fCMdQ)
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (IOSGZ)
Posted by: Inspector Asshole at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (IOSGZ)
Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 03:16 PM (fCMdQ)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:16 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2012 03:16 PM (uhAkr)
Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 03:16 PM (njVMI)
Posted by: AmericanDawg at November 15, 2012 03:16 PM (XIsD/)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 03:16 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Justamom at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (Sptt8)
Romney outperformed almost every conservative Senate candidate. He even got more votes than Ted Cruz did in Texas. The idea that he lost because he wasn't conservative enough is just nonsense, a dangerous delusion,
Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (E8Ag4)
End of chapter. It looks bad for the good guys, I know.
Here is the upside to Obama winning: Obama won. He broke it; he bought it.
Posted by: fluffy at November 15, 2012 03:18 PM (z9HTb)
Most recently by re-installing Agent Orange in the Speaker's chair in the aftermath of the election debacle.
Boehner must go.
Posted by: torquewrench at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (ymG7s)
Me too. This is getting tedious.
Burnage and what-not.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (zpqa2)
All of this is moot unless you have conservatives who are very good candidates - which luckily we should in 2016. But just as there is no "Generic Republican" there is no "Generic Conservative".
Who, exactly, should we have nominated but didn't? Santorum? Newt? an ill-prepred Rick Perry? Herman Cain? Huckabee? (if you even want to call him conservative). I loved Fred T. but he's a "RINO" to many, plus not the hardest working campaigner. Lamar!? Pat Robertson? You could make a case for Phil Gramm, Jack Kemp or maybe Forbes. But it's not like we've turned our backs on a lot of great, viable conservative alternatives.
You go to elections with the candidates you've got.
Posted by: buzz at November 15, 2012 03:20 PM (i27M5)
FUCKING A. No shit...... We need candidates that have actually come up like the rest of the electorate. Even GWB was a trust fund kid. Reagan can speak to Americans BECAUSE HE IS ONE, a regular Joe that made it.
We need to recognize this. Richie rich cannot sell the message that taxing the rich is bad. For FUCK'S SAKE.
Time to go FULL RETARD!!!!!!!!
MARCO RUBIO-TOM COTTON 2016!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a great blog, glad to have found it. It's helped me get through the fucking disaster of an election. Night retards.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:21 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Greg at November 15, 2012 03:21 PM (vatr1)
I sincerely doubt that getting Romney to tell the ugly truth about Choom Boy would have made any difference.
Free Shit, Race and Fraud. They're what's happening.
I don't overestimate the American public (at least the D voters). Historically, there have been elections around the world where some inherently decent people freely chose the worst possible person to lead them. This has been such an occasion. And, like those instances, all of us will pay dearly for the error.
Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 15, 2012 03:22 PM (yKUrR)
Rove is as responsible for the R party being hated as anybody else on the planet. I think that's the elephant he's not seeing.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (BeSEI)
Posted by: rickl at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (zpqa2)
"Rich" isn't conservative. Rich is simply "not me."
Why did Herman Cain resonate with so many people, and Romney with almost no one? Because Cain's biography (like him or hate him as a candidate) is one the 'everyman' can identify with.
Just like Reagan's was.
We lost this election because Romney did not connect with our base. Plain and simple. No other way to dice it.
And no, Romney/Ryan wasn't the 'best possible ticket.' Ryan was a sop to conservatives. Yay. Romney spent the whole primary battering the right into submission. You can't tell your base to sod off and not have it bite you. You can't stifle dissent at the convention and power-broker primaries into a virtual gerrymandering of the process to ensure victory without consequence.
The Establishment wanted its candidate so badly they were willing to sacrifice the base to do it. They got what they deserved.
So yes, we should absolutely make sure that our Presidential nominees don't come from the "Establishment" so-called 'wing' of the party any longer.
Oh, and here's one more hint. Being "moderate" didn't stop the Dems and Media from calling Romney 'extreme.' The only answer is to show how THEY are. Fight fire with fire, and stop assuming they can be 'niced' into an issue campaign.
Posted by: Shawn at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (/lltO)
BTW,
the budget under Reagan was balanced, revenues met expenditures.
The problem was the fucking fed rate was jacked at 15%. So debt payments were crippling us. Without that, we would not have had deficits. No one unelected person should be able to double the national debt simply via his policy (i.e., Fed chair)
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (tVTLU)
tripling the cost of registering your car here in california,they didn't even bother with doubling it first, nope.let it burn
Posted by: kj at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (AW9md)
If only 51.8% of voting-age people showed up to vote, and Barky only managed to pull in 50.1% of that vote, it means that roughly 26% of those eligible to vote are the ones who "made the decision" for 4 more years of this crap sandwich.
What does that translate to in terms of the overall population? What was the final tally of votes per candidate, and what percentage is that of the total population?
'Cuz if it's only 20-25% of the population, no candidate can say that he/she has a "mandate" for anything......
Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (XjXIN)
This X 1000. Grand OLD Party.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: SFGoth at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (dZ756)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: Truman North, last of the famous international playboys at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (I2LwF)
Posted by: logprof at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (jKE+Z)
All this hand wringing and dissection of the results is ignoring the real elephant in the room which is that Sarah Palin was never welcomed and never really invited to speak at the Convention and was ignored by the Establishment and the campaign. By doing that, they said screw you to all those people that Sarah helped activate for the 2010 elections. You remember those, don't you?
So screw all this analysis... the simple fact is that by ignoring Sarah Palin and the Tea Party, the Republican geniuses and all the so-called genius bloggers I have been reading since the election, like the guy who wrote this article, by not bringing up Sarah Palin they show that they still have their heads up their a^^es. Good luck with that.
Posted by: PhilipJames at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (hrysW)
And who will hate vaginas, kill poor people and push old ladies off cliffs while giving gifts to their greedy corporate fatcat friends.
The elephant in the room is the media. You'll note that in addition to everything else, they seem to "help" choose our nominee. End.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (6JMZR)
Posted by: Golan Globus at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (/1U3u)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 03:26 PM (z4WKX)
Not the dead kind, nor felons, nor illegal aliens, nor the "early and often" kind. That's what the other party does.
Not the low-information kind, either.
Since it's too late to send them all back to high school to take a civics class - and since the teachers at those high schools are lefty recruiters themselves, so it won't happen there anyway - the question is, how do we create new voters who understand the dangers of big government and the costs of all those freebies? That won't be learned in school. Seems to me that the only place left for that to be learned is the School of Hard Knocks.
Therefore, LET IT BURN.
I'm not persuaded there is a political solution to this. The people in charge don't want honest elections, and won't let America have them. The voting majority will not surrender their Free Stuff. This will not be solved by the electoral process.
Posted by: Keith Arnold at November 15, 2012 03:27 PM (Jdtsu)
If we fall for this we deserve to lose in 16.
Blue-dog Dems? Where?
Our opponents are fucking commies.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:28 PM (zpqa2)
CarolT:
Let's work together for Rubio. What things do you hear?
We need to take back this f'ng GOP. No more establishment retards. Bush barely beat Gore the first time around and I kept saying he was going to smoke Kerry because of 9-11.
And it still came down to fucking Ohio. Whoever is running the pubs has been fucking up something awful for year after year after year.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:28 PM (tVTLU)
And yes you will have to show your work.
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 03:30 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: eureka! LIBer at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (UL+ny)
I share that assessment.
Worse, they would have been blamed for "spoiling" the vigorous Obama economic recovery which is somehow always just around the corner.
It's going to be no fun to endure another four years of stagflation. But it will make clear to at least some swing voters that Obamanomics simply do not work.
Posted by: torquewrench at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (ymG7s)
The Grand OLD Party brand is dead. It smells. Anything you put into it picks up the smell.
Do. Not. Want.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (Iyg03)
Actually, it was Teh SARAHCUUUUUUDAAAA!!11!! who sat things out. For whatever reason (probably monetary, for which you can't blame her) she wasn't out there workin' it for the team.
You can use the excuse that the party dumped dung all over her, but the same happened to others in the past and they kept pushing. See: Nixon, Richard.
Palin apparently doesn't want to be president, or even waste much time with politics. Her choice, but she has lost her credibility in that regard, and deservedly so.
Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (yKUrR)
This is why social conservatism is actually important and libertarianism is a dead end for the GOP: you can actually bring people to vote against their short-term economic interest if you appeal to their identity and beliefs.
W. was a rich bastard just as Willard was, but he was a culture warrior. He might have been turned 180° on foreign policy after 9/11 and was a damn squish on the economy, but it was always clear where he stood on social issues and that made him relatable to a lot of people that were not exactly of his class, but of a similar faith.
Playing the god-card was much more problematic for Willard due to his mormonism and his history of moderation on social issues. His whole political persona was not up to the task of turning this election. Thats why I have some respect left for W: because he was able to turn the 04 election into a referendum on "values" with a so-so economy, the War on Terror and the Iraq war going on. THATS political leadership.
Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (DLZfk)
Thanks GOP keep selling the myth we get a "crazy Reagan conservative" every other cycle.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (Iyg03)
Romney won the same percentage of white voters that Reagan did. The problem is the non-white vote. Until minorities decide to vote for their own rational economic self interest (instead Obamaphones and tribal identity) the country is screwed.
Posted by: Huusker at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (Vq7P1)
Are you suggesting that the Tea Party didn't turn out because Sarah Palin was ignored? Not buying it.
Posted by: fluffy at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (z9HTb)
Posted by: SFGoth at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (dZ756)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (Iyg03)
Reagan and Clinton won them on economics, and it produced two blowout victories. In 2004, Bush won them on culture and the GWOT, and it produced a narrow victory.
It would be nice to have more Latino votes, but the hard truth is that even with an utter embrace of full-on amnesty by the GOP, Latinos are still much more likely to vote for Dems.
The white working class (whites making below $50K) is different. What matters here is less that their "white" but more that they are economically vulnerable and want some one who's on their side and presents an empowering solution. Obama, of course, offered neither sympathy or solutions, but effectively poisoned them against Romney via the Bain attacks in OH.
I think Rubio's the most talented communicator the GOP has to offer in 2016, but I worry that he can't reach white working class voters. It's an unresolved question.
Posted by: Robert_Paulson at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (HU5cF)
Posted by: Golan Globus at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (/1U3u)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (KL49F)
That set of parameters actually works to our advantage. We can run on what we should have ran on this time UNLOCK THE POWER! Add in the need for a military rebirth and there you have it.
BOOM!
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (LRFds)
Unless the R's start handing out taxpayer funded penis enhancement surgery and tattoos to the Honey Boo Boos , Brand Republican is done.
Done.
The American electorate needs to feel the burn.
Let them.
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (EZl54)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 07:31 PM (Iyg03)
Yes...but money is not everything. Practically every other candidate had a brief boomlet when they got tons of money pouring in. If they were really the preferred candidate, they would have caught fire.
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (hlUJY)
Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (X/+QT)
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (hlUJY)
When faced with Lib and LibLite, folks will go with the caffeinated version every time.
Then, look to California for a preview of what's going to happen to the rest of the nation.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (Qxdfp)
Posted by: BuddyPC at November 15, 2012 03:35 PM (jfUIE)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 03:35 PM (z4WKX)
Open primaries are a part of it.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 07:34 PM (LRFds)
Okay I'll buy that as a factor. But that's not an establishment problem.
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 03:35 PM (pAlYe)
Also, many here believed that this last election was our last chance to stop our slide into the abyss.
What's different now?
Nothing. Game over, man.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (ccXZP)
Posted by: El Kabong, Honorable Moron from AZ at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (pzmYs)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 07:33 PM (EZl54)
Romney won but for massive fraud. We actually haven't "lost the culture" yet.
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (KL49F)
"The establishment supports the loser from the last time."
And that rule has worked out SO well for us.
How about if we sack proven losers, brutally and quickly, and replace them with people who actually showed in the previous cycle that they know how to win elections?
Posted by: torquewrench at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (ymG7s)
67:
That is a simplistic analysis though. This is about states and the electoral college. Heavy hispanic/minority populations are in states that are locked up anyway.
Does it not disturb anyone here, that we always seem to BARELY WIN, I mean GWB did not get above 300 electoral votes. We barely pulled this bitch out.
The dems are systematically closing the map on us and we are ALLOWING IT TO HAPPEN.
Enough of this shit. We need to take back these states and we need to start now. Rather than just hoping the voters will do the right things in the last two months of a campaign. I mean fuck.
How many relationships are going to be maintained by the GOP in coal country. Jack fucking shit I bet.
It makes one wonder if the GOP has been infiltrated, frankly. HOw the fuck can we not have a reliable GOTV machine up and going in all of these states!!!!
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: El Kabong, Honorable Moron from AZ at November 15, 2012 07:36 PM (pzmYs)
Agree totally.
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at November 15, 2012 03:37 PM (KL49F)
Posted by: MItt Romney - Ham Sandwich at November 15, 2012 03:37 PM (EZl54)
You may be right, but conditions in 2016 America may well be such that no intelligent person would choose to run for president.
They'd be too busy foraging for food scraps and building a hovel for the family, not to mention looking for ammo with which to defend their ground.
Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (yKUrR)
After the burnage, and only after, this will be self-evident. Sorry, but that's where we are now. We may as well hasten the inevitable.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (zpqa2)
I've always said the R party votes conservatively, but not necessarily for conservatives.
In other words, we go for safe, known candidates. We don't like sexy.
Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (BeSEI)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (hhVWg)
yup that and pure unadulterated harpie rage that she is more accomplished with "less skill"....
my sister in law has defacto quit the party over Palin...
in '08 "Palin is not ready"
in '12 "Ryan is too dangerous"
in '16 I aim to tell her "if Cali is still in America register D"
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (i0vBR)
People want teh free shit.
Posted by: Jeanne the Obscure at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (u/L+R)
Posted by: Ross Perot at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (jfUIE)
Posted by: El Kabong, Honorable Moron from AZ at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (pzmYs)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Our only hope. Literally. at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (Gk3SS)
According to Drudge, Wal-Mart's employees are going to have a job action on Black Friday.
Yea, bring it!!!
Unionize those commie-loving-Walton heirs big time. They love commies so much, let them have an empire of commie. Serves them right.
Posted by: Boots at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (neKzn)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 03:40 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: bayway48 at November 15, 2012 03:40 PM (FzYtL)
Robert Paulson:
Great comment. Rubio can do it, he's in the same economic boat. Plus, if Rubio picks Tom Cotton as his running mate, that will be sewn up.
War vet, cattle farmer from rural Arkansas, same place Clinton was from roughly.
That's why I'm pounding the fucking table for these guys.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:40 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:40 PM (hhVWg)
I put up a headline about one of them. From memory, her quote was, "We've already decided Mitt Romney will be the Republican nominee." Remember that?
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 03:40 PM (Iyg03)
Romney probably will end up with more votes than John McCain, which would mean that he got pretty much the entire base and the incredibly shrinking number of independents relative to 2008.
TFG managed to make 7 million white voters stay home. That is his legacy.
Posted by: The Q at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (w4fEE)
Posted by: Golan Globus at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (/1U3u)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (hhVWg)
The ground game is you and me, all of us, pointing out to Obama voters how stupid they are. We need to stop enabling bad behavior. Ridicule low-information voters. Don't support businesses run by liberals.
The GOP can't do it, with the media in teh SCOAMF's back pocket. We need to do it, and we can't wait until election season.
Posted by: Marmo at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (pcgW1)
Yup...we should have been outside the margin of reasonable fraud folks....come on now they've always cheated 1-3%....
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (DLZfk)
I have little faith in the education argument.
low info cable watchers don't get TAUGHT that free stuff is good, it just "works that way".
In time, free markets and capitalism won't need to be explained, they will just "work that way"... again.
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (EZl54)
Just nod....
I'm guessing I am supposed to feel some guilt or shame over Palin having any say on the right...
it helps unity to humor folk.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: lowandslow at November 15, 2012 03:44 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:44 PM (0fxcV)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (hhVWg)
125 Guys, Rubio wont run in '16. He cant be on the presidential ticket and run for his Senate seat at the same time. If he loses his political career would be over. He wont run before 2020.
----------------------------------------
I thought Joe Lieberman ran for the Senate in 2000 at the same time he was on the ticket with AlGore? Or am I misremembering?
Posted by: Boots at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (neKzn)
125:
WTF are you talking about? He sure as shit can for both at the same time.
Pawlenty looked like too much of a pussy for me. I might've gone for Mitch Daniels.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (hhVWg)
And a couple of points is all we needed in the last one. So, we could try all of that.
But, really, people like free shit. We can argue freedom all we want, and we might even win once in a while under the right conditions, but people love their free shit.
So..Make it Burn, baby...make it burn. Take what you can from Uncle Sugar, and invest what you save in preparedness. They love socialism...let them drown in it.
Until there is nothing left for them to take, these loosers will never learn.
Posted by: MrShad at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (Xqfwb)
OT/ Sorry if this was already posted, but it made me laugh.
Wal-Mart workers plan Black Friday walkout
....The union-backed groups OUR Walmart and Making Change at Wal-Mart, and a watchdog group Corporate Action Network, are calling on the nation's largest employer to end what they call retaliation against employees who speak out for better pay, fair schedules and affordable health care...
Posted by: spypeach at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (pwTow)
Rove is in the "drop zone" as it were.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (SP4jC)
The previous poster muddied the waters a bit by saying "presidential ticket," but the main thrust was that Rubio can't run for president AND senator at the same time because he'd be running 2 races at once for 14-18 months.
Like Lieberman in 2000, Rubio would be a perfectly acceptable VP candidate, because he'd be running for Senate for 14 months and only running on the national ticket for 3.
Posted by: The Q at November 15, 2012 03:48 PM (w4fEE)
Posted by: Boots at November 15, 2012 07:45 PM (neKzn)
That might be true, but running in a very small, very blue state while being veep is something different than running for Senate in the most popular swingstate of the country while probably heading the ticket.
Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 15, 2012 03:48 PM (DLZfk)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:48 PM (zpqa2)
Reagan was the best. We have been running either trust fund babies or the world's worst candidates since.
GHWB (which really was Reagan's third term)
Dole - do I have to say
GWB
McCain
Romney
So, in 2016, are we going to run some crusty old white fuck that yes was a hero but otherwise can't speak.
Or are we going to run a young hispanic and war hero young white guy who grew up on a cattle farm in a family full of veterans.
FIX THE MESSENGER. Articulate the message.
Get back to Reagan and the rest will follow.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:48 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:48 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: scofflawx at November 15, 2012 03:48 PM (N1Rjx)
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (ccXZP)
The elephant in the room is dedication to purpose. We snarked at Obama for being in Eternal Campaign Mode, but look at what his *actual* campaign did: Nickel and dimed the electorate to death, finding out as much as they could about as many people as they could, and trying to microtarget them. One person at a time. Drops in a bucket, but enough drops and the bucket gets full.
They're playing the long game. Look at their takeover of schools. Being Professor of Literature at the University of Southern North Dakota won't make you rich and famous. But every fall, sure as sunrise, you'll have a classroom of fresh faced, eager 19 year olds, fresh away from Mom and Dad and listening to what you say.
Or these idiot organizations like Code Pink. We point and laugh at these useless cretins and ask, "Why don't these people get jobs?"
Because they have them. Their long game continues, time be damned. Pushing and forwarding their ideology is What. They. Do. That's why the campaign never ends, why the fundraising doesn't stop, and why they run around in goddamn vagina suits. Always preaching, always trying to drown out the opposition. Elections aren't every four years, anymore. They are every day, and the Progs treat them that way. Do that long enough and you win.
Posted by: Secundus at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (g3jwX)
Rove is in fact at Point Break....
looks like Bussey makes sense like Canoe
http://youtu.be/YS_6mR82eQk
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (LRFds)
Funny how all the pundits were sure of just what was going on in the weeks and days leading up to the election, then the election proved them all completely wrong, then the next morning they were right back there being sure about what's going on -- and it's totally different than the stuff they knew before. I'm sure they're right THIS time. Aren't they?
Posted by: pestilential at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (Pwy5W)
Elize:
Please, the money you would bring in by running for Prez. is like icing on the cake. Yes, he can run for both. I think JF Kerry did that as well...
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: Ed Anger at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (tOkJB)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (i0vBR)
No. That's not the point. The point is that some conservatives have stopped voting for non conservative nominees.
Romney would've probably won if every conservative voter voted for him.
They didn't. There's a reason.
My guess; we'll see Rubio's star ascend in the sky and he'll be the next GOP Messiah. Meh.
Let. It. Burn.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (SP4jC)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (PmlnN)
Posted by: andycanuck at November 15, 2012 03:51 PM (nkiQM)
Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 15, 2012 03:51 PM (6JMZR)
Posted by: JDP at November 15, 2012 07:41 PM (60GaT)
The thing is Romney made mistakes along the way, too, but they were always forgiven. Perry's mistakes would've been forgiven likewise had the Palinistas not been on a vendetta to destroy him. As soon as Palin announced she wasn't running in October, Palinstas blamed Perry for it. Then they ran to gaffetastic Cain and amnesty-loving Newt. They simply couldn't forgive Perry for their imaginary scenario.
And it wasn't just Palinistas. Fox News had their own agenda against Perry and they wouldn't let the public forget "oops" because Perry was the biggest threat to their guy Romney. So Fox defended Cain 24/7 knowing he was weak. That paved the way for a victorious Romney. If Perry had had Fox News defending "oops" as much as they defended Cain's adluterous past, Perry could have survived.
In Perry news today, he's the 1st gov to tell the feds to go eff themselves on the exchanges. He's telling them he won't set-up a "state exchange" and is helping to crash Ocare per Michael Cannon at Cato
I love Perry more and more.
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at November 15, 2012 03:51 PM (KL49F)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 03:51 PM (uvNSk)
@ 121
Agreed. The only thing that MIGHT wake them up is when they are slapped in the face with their own stupidity. The only way to maintain sanity is to laugh at them. Poke fun at them. Keep up with the brazillion nicknames for B.O.
Posted by: wth at November 15, 2012 03:52 PM (wAQA5)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:52 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 03:52 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 07:45 PM (hhVWg)"
I got no problem running a hardcore conservative, wish we would, just don't think for a minute they would win. The sooner we realize that the sooner we can quit thinking the this is some kind of political problem instead of a ideological one. We live in a liberal/socialist/statist nation, that's the real elephant in the room conservative pundits won't see.
Posted by: lowandslow at November 15, 2012 03:52 PM (GZitp)
Nah stand on a landmine and take a step back when she tries to bodycheck you for HILLARY!
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:53 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 03:53 PM (i0vBR)
I can tell by the comments on this thread that the next repub. presidential primary season will be just like the last. Too bad we can't agree on a fixed set of principles that will decrease the party infighting enough so that the candidate can focus on winning against dem leftists. We have too many left-leaners on our side.
Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2012 03:53 PM (0Y8Gz)
so as I have wondered is there really a nation anymore?
I am not letting them import foreigners to fuck me out of my liberty on my forefather's soil so we have a BIG problem.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:54 PM (LRFds)
As much as I like Rick Perry, I have a very hard time that the nation was ready to elect another Governor from Texas.
I mean sweet Jesus, they were still fucking blaming Bush for Zero's economy.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:54 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 03:54 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 07:52 PM (EZl54)
Yeah, and ours was ORCA.
Posted by: Secundus at November 15, 2012 03:55 PM (g3jwX)
Reagan argued that was Coolidge.
Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 03:55 PM (4+LTj)
Exactly.
What rdbrewer and many of the conservatives here aren't acknowledging is that 1980's Reagan would have lost in 2012's electorate. It's irreparably changed, it's gone.
Romney was effectually Reagan(star); he ran the same +20% in the non-minority demographics as Reagan did, won the white women/men/married demos. And he won the independent vote by 5% nationally.
The only things that's changed between the same performance which yielded a 1980 landslide and a 2012 ass-kicking is the demographic make-up of this country and the values which draw-out the white vote. Obama just cluster-fucked the white vote in the midwest until it looked like Verdun -- and those who were willing to come out of the foxholes were the evangelicals, were the independents. Our side suffered dramatically less attrition loss than theirs, but it's not enough.
Reagan '80 would have lost last week, I'm sorry to say. We idolize him, it's true though.
Romney won independents in Ohio by 10% -- and we lost. Let that sink in.
We dwell on the minutiae and tactical things, but in terms of the grand strategy the man targeted the independents from day 1 and performed to a level no other Republican candidate could have. It was our only play and it fell short.
Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2012 03:55 PM (jhI6f)
or
Perry 2016 -- It's My Turn
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (ccXZP)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (X/+QT)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 07:45 PM (hhVWg)
Exactly.
That's all we've heard since Poppy Bush. GW won only because a) he only did barely b) gore was a fucking giant puppet.
So just for snickers, let's prove or disprove this constant refrain and actually nominate and run an actual conservative?
I'm in, I just don't know who.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (SP4jC)
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 07:49 PM (tVTLU)
I didnt mean to say that he cant do it in a legal sense, but running in Florida is just a much bigger deal and much more consuming than running in some small, north-eastern blue stronghold. And the media would go after him for it: "Why do you run for Senate if you're really that optimistic about becoming President?" And they would use it against him in Florida as well. And we saw this year that this is not exactly a red state we're talking about. Maybe a Democrat can get away with this stuff, but our guys cant. Believe me.
Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (DLZfk)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: osu at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (xR46S)
HE DID NOT FINISH!
He listened to the be nice to the Lyin kING voices Rove and the like were whispering and let the socialist up and thats a fact Jack!
Posted by: ConcealedKerry Or SubMitt at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (THBnv)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 07:56 PM (hhVWg)
Fight Santa ideologically?
OK, I'll wait.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (zpqa2)
Um. I think Reagan would have hammered-down last week.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (Iyg03)
People want teh free shit.
Posted by: Jeanne the Obscure at November 15, 2012 07:39 PM (u/L
Hello there.
Posted by: Calvin Coolidge at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (9YFBQ)
Posted by: pestilential at November 15, 2012 07:49 PM (Pwy5W)
Yes, these discussions are all based on the assumption that O won fairly. He didn't. Period. The all-knowing pundits want to change our principles based on fraudulent data. Also, we don't know that Romney got less votes than McCain till all the votes are counted and that takes months. 300,000 votes are outstanding in OH alone.
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (KL49F)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: Tommy V at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (ZYlKz)
Elize,
You can easily set that up. Of course you want to go back to the Senate and then you've decided to run for President as well. Let the rest take care of itself.
Uriah Heep,
The flaw in your analysis is that we are losing states like fucking Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and all these other states that Reagan won in landslides.
The racial breakdown of Maine is not that inconsistent as it existed in Reagan's day. So why the fuck are we losing Maine. Wisconsin? Iowa?
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (tVTLU)
and what did Perot run on?
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (SP4jC)
OK Reagan was a conservative, but so was Goldwater who lost massively.
I think you have to factor in to that election that LBJ was perceived to be carrying on the legacy of a President slain less than a year earlier.
Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 15, 2012 04:00 PM (8cOY0)
Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2012 07:53 PM (0Y8Gz)
There won't be another. And if there is, it won't matter. Fraud will win the day everyday from now on.
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at November 15, 2012 04:00 PM (KL49F)
Yeah, I think Rove would be just as happy working for the Democrats. It's the stupid game he loves.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 04:00 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2012 04:00 PM (0Y8Gz)
I understand your point, but I don't think the immigration process is reversible at this point. We have an unknown number of illegals in this country with an entire legal establishment dedicated to ensuring that they get a free ride, anchor babies, health care, and immunity from crimes that you or I would do serious time for.
We can't even suggest that a photo ID is a reasonable thing to present when you show up to vote without incurring the wrath of the media (and far too many people listen to the media).
We are done as a real nation, but we will continue to go through the motions for a while longer!
Posted by: Hrothgar - L.I.B or SMOD for the Children at November 15, 2012 04:01 PM (Cnqmv)
Romney. Reagan. Newt. Palin. McCain. Don't matter anymore. This country now has a system in place that will perpetuate the laviathan state. Votes bought with money from the laviathan state to ensure that outcome. Votes bought with bailouts for targeted industries in targeted states and foodstamps and Obama Phones. An election process where the count of the votes doesn't matter, just who counts the votes.
The system is corrupt and will not fulfill its constitutional perogative to safeguard our liberty, but will be used to make us slaves to the elites who covet eternal power over us.
Let it Burn
Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 04:01 PM (1Rw2p)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 04:01 PM (i0vBR)
Palin would have won the nomination, but she didn't because the Establishment.
Why, it's as if Palin can't even stand up to the Establishment. But she is the one true warrior to slay the Dems because..............
Posted by: Shoot Me at November 15, 2012 04:01 PM (qiXMt)
another thread someone brought up All in the Family....
MUMR what if one day Archie said, "Edith grab your shit fuck that asshole he can have the house let's go find work in texas??"
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:01 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Tonic Dog at November 15, 2012 07:56 PM (X/+QT)
This is the microsecond information age. You can see events on the other side of the planet in real time. Unfortunately, this has also turned politics into a Forever War. It sucks, but there it is. If the GOP doesn't figure that out, they won't be successful.
Posted by: Secundus at November 15, 2012 04:02 PM (g3jwX)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:02 PM (uvNSk)
UP train strikes parade trailer hauling wounded warriors.
4 dead, 17 injured, many critical.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:02 PM (piMMO)
Only one: LiB/MiB, which will cause the pendulum to swing back.
Sorry, but that's where we are. A magic conservative talking about the Laffer curve is not going to mean shit to this electorate.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 04:02 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:02 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Golan Globus at November 15, 2012 04:02 PM (/1U3u)
OK, I'll wait.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 07:58 PM (zpqa2)"
You're going to have to, the return to a more traditional America isn't going to change in one election. We've been on the course of liberalizing America for decades, with the GOP's blessing.
Posted by: lowandslow at November 15, 2012 04:03 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 07:59 PM (hhVWg)
-----------------------------------------------
I have some but no one is ready to look at them yet.
Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2012 04:03 PM (0Y8Gz)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 04:03 PM (i0vBR)
That problem has a different set of solutions.
I am not allowed to go "borrow Mexico" with a human wave invasion....
never mind I'll shut up now.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (LRFds)
Globus,
Exactly. And make the point that makes sense. Does it make sense to have widespread immigration when so many of our own citizens can't find a job....
How are these points not being made???????
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (hhVWg)
Excellent analysis.
In fact, if you take 2008 as the outlier, where a helluva lot of people voted for the first and only time in their lives and did so for Obama, here's what happens:
GWB = 62 million, ~40% Latino vote.
Mitt = 59 million (& counting), 27% Latino vote.
Throw in the changing demographics of the country and swap the Asians that went heavily against Romney for the white independents that narrowly favored Kerry in 2004 but went pretty well towards Romney . . .
We did our best. The electorate changed, not us.
Posted by: The Q at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (w4fEE)
Okay someone please explain to me how exactly the Establishment is able to mind control millions and millions of otherwise conservative GOP primary voters into voting for the Establishment's preferred squish candidate so that he wins the nomination.
And yes you will have to how your work.
Posted by: Mætenloch at November 15, 2012 07:30 PM (pAlYe)
I began supporting Romney's primary candidacy immediately after Perry's debate implosion. Why? Because compared to Santorum, Gingrich, Huntsman, Cain, et al, Romney was the best qualified, least problematic (for lack of a better word), and most electable of the bunch, and by 'electable' I mean organized, well-funded, and yes, personable. Santorum comes off like an insufferable prig. Gingrich is hopelessly grandiose, with a personal life that can only be called a target-rich environment. Huntsman is indistinguishable from any moderate Democrat I can name, and so on. That said, I had no illusions about Romney from an ideological standpoint, nor was I unaware of his shortcomings. He's an old-school Northeastern Rockefeller Republican. His instincts are cautious and data-driven. He considers himself a gentleman--always a mistake when taking on no-holds-barred ideologues.
Remember the second debate when President Obama lied outright and the debate moderator sprang to Obama's defense? Romney's face showed genuine shock and surprise, and that's when I knew (or was fairly certain) we would lose. A conservative would know it was a rigged game going in. Romney played by the Rules and, tragically, thought everyone else was playing by the rules, too. He was our leader in this fight and didn't know he was in a fight. That's why he lost. That's why we lost.
Posted by: troyriser at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (vtiE6)
You can thank Gore's anti-second amendment threats for W's win. It cost Manbearpig his home state. Of course W went and spit in gun owner's eye when he said he'd sign a gun ban bill if it made it to his desk.
Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (9YFBQ)
Yes. The American electorate prefers a multi racial dope smoking slacker, who grew up in Hawaii with a silver spoon his mouth. They want a guy who pisses on the one supportive stable factor in his life (grandmother) by taking a public racial cheapshot at her after her death. They want a guy who takes the greatest economy in the world and tanks it over his daddy abandonment issues. They want Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho's retarded little brother.
They want a President that looks like modern fucked up America.
Just like them.
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (EZl54)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:05 PM (piMMO)
It's not race that matters.
Maine has a lot of people on welfare/state assistance. Has since the '70's. This is because of the environment and lack of jobs.
Wisconsin is farm country. See above.
Iowa is just weird. Like maybe a wandering wagon load of Scandi's headed for Minnesota wound up there and it's been blue since clinton (or since Poppy). Plus see above and ETHANOL!!!! Lots a corn grown in IOWAY. Farm subsidies. Government handouts/ crop insurance / welfare for the city folk.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:05 PM (SP4jC)
They don't start counting those votes, by law, until Saturday, and even if many of them are coming from Cuyahoga, there's still quite a few from the burbs and the sticks as well.
Romney will outperform McCain and come in somewhere between 60 - 61.5 million votes.
Posted by: The Q at November 15, 2012 04:05 PM (w4fEE)
Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 15, 2012 04:06 PM (yJYwC)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:07 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: cranky-d at November 15, 2012 04:07 PM (HDtn6)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:07 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Zombie Calvin Coolidge at November 15, 2012 04:07 PM (XvHmy)
Posted by: Zombie Calvin Coolidge at November 15, 2012 04:08 PM (XvHmy)
We pass amnesty, and we turn Texas into a swing state in a few years.
We don't pass amnesty, and it will likely become a swing state anyway.
One strategy we might give a go is to go after the white vote more.
Huh?
Yup, single white females. There are a vast number of them that vote on one issue, and we all know what that issue is.
Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 15, 2012 04:08 PM (8cOY0)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:08 PM (piMMO)
Stop with the bullshit excuses already and face the issues dead-on. Hiding behind juvenile games of pointing-the-finger and pass-the-blame will not solve anything for 2014 or 2016.
Fact: We're getting butt-fucked by demographics and the media. Demographics are a a strategic problem which will need a new policy agenda in terms of immigration: some compromise on strong border security and eVerify with a path to citizenship pushed by a cute face like Rubio. The legacy media must die, declare open war on them, find ways to slow their funding and build new tools to go around them. Better map out and understand social networks and information flows and use it to our advantage.
Bullshit Excuse: any sentence that contains 'Orca'. It's nothing but a networked strike-list. A strike-list is a way to know who already voted. Even if Orca failed completely, 100%, it means nothing if your electorate has a higher propensity to vote, has greater intensity and there are more of them. In the worst case of complete failure, it would have taken Boston an extra 30 minutes or an hour to know they won a precinct -- if they had the voters -- big fucking deal.
Orca stories are simple and intellectually easy process stories that hide the underlying problems. Romney should have won, we got bent over by a bunch of assholes from Chicago who can comprehend enough Heinlein to understand that if they hand out enough circuses and oranges to enough minorities, they can organize them and ship them like cattle to the polls while they literally carpet bomb the swing states and turn off anyone who might think of voting that day, but isn't sure.
Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2012 04:08 PM (jhI6f)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:09 PM (uvNSk)
Under Reagan,
Spending and revenue WERE BALANCED.
Except for that out of control clown at the fed reserve. Interest on debt at 15% killed us.
Can you imagine what our deficit would be now if we were paying 15%!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paul Volcker was the genius who sold the nation's silver at 70 cents per ounce or something absurd like that.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 04:09 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: osu at November 15, 2012 04:10 PM (xR46S)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (z4WKX)
"Explain Maine." New England.
"Explain Iowa." Farm subsidies - Romney threatened to cut that off, one of the most noticeably fiscally conservatives stands he took during the entire campaign.
"Explain Wisconsin." We got our hopes up there because of the recall, but a good 15-20% of Democrats voted for Walker not because they liked him but because they thought the recall effort was wrong. That's how Walker got better numbers in 2012 than in 2010.
Posted by: The Q at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (w4fEE)
Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (8cOY0)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 04:12 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: lowandslow at November 15, 2012 04:12 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Phil at November 15, 2012 04:12 PM (QzdcC)
*****
It isn't the Teamsters. It's the bakers. Then again, I always welcome a big Up Yours when it comes to the IBT.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:12 PM (piMMO)
246: Reagan won all of them though, so you've made my point that it's not purely demographics at play here.
239; 243: I disagree. A better ground game in 4 states and we are talking about bringing back the Winston Churchill bust in the WH.
For the last fucking time, GROUND GAME MATTERS!!!!!!!!!
And the pubs keep fucking it up.
Posted by: Prescient11 at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (tVTLU)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (hhVWg)
States have changed. The electorate has changed.
This talk must make the Progs squee when they see the Grand OLD Party obsessing like this.
MiB
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: osu at November 15, 2012 04:14 PM (xR46S)
Only 2 things will prevent Hillary from being elected in 2016.
1. She Dies (and she may run from the grave - I wouldnt put it past her).
2. Obama screws things up so bad that dems are voted out en masse (which is very likely to happen).
Posted by: retired military at November 15, 2012 04:14 PM (k2WDr)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 04:14 PM (i0vBR)
out communist the communists....
works every time...er uh no no it doesn't...
for fuck's sakes the pro pot libtards voted for Przzy Control Freak
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:15 PM (LRFds)
rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 07:58 PM (Iyg03)
I believe he would've at least told Candy Crowley to shut her pie hole while he was talking. (politely and with humor and she probably would've)
He then would've enumerated the number of times that Choom boy has made the world less safe by his inept foreign visits and actions.
How he helped ignite unrest in the ME IN FAVOR OF THE ISLAMIST'S and that he had no business getting involved with Libya since they were at peace and less trouble to the world than they have ever been.
How he has abandoned and isolated Bibi and put him in a place where unilateral force is his only option if he wants to keep Israel alive.
I could go on and on.
So NO to your statement about how he would've lost also.
As was said. Like so many nonconservative Republicans, they don't seem to understand we're in a war and the Media is one of the fighting forces of the enemy.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:15 PM (SP4jC)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 04:15 PM (z4WKX)
TThe IBT are the ones trying to shake down Hostess...
they were the ones that tried to organize the cargo company I started with.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:15 PM (LRFds)
Because it sure didn't buy us the election in 2008.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 04:16 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: Jaimo at November 15, 2012 04:16 PM (ulzt7)
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:16 PM (SP4jC)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:17 PM (hhVWg)
I watched the first 6 today. Plan to finish tonight. I totally agree with her premise.
The Marxo-Dems may be bad at math but they know how to appeal to the base nature of the masses. They understand the heart problem.
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 04:17 PM (EZl54)
Anyways, yes, the white vote is shrinking as a percentage of the electorate, but I think you could argue that Reagan's 60% share isn't a ceiling. As a whole the white portion of the electorate is aging, and getting more conservative. You can and need to win a larger percentage of white voters -- in the short term -- in order to be competitive. Especially if the Dems now have a magic database that allows them to turnout AA & latino neighborhoods to the nth degree.
Posted by: Robert_Paulson at November 15, 2012 04:17 PM (HU5cF)
yup...no trust me i agree...
you cannot sway donk fan...not in enough numbers to justify the economic retardation anyway.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:17 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:17 PM (uvNSk)
****
it isn't the teamsters. It's the baker's union: BCTGM
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:17 PM (piMMO)
That is bull! Iowa is no different than anywhere else. Then countyr votes R in huge numbers the cities vote D.
Obama served red meat and free shit to his base and Romney served oatmeal sprinkled with cinnnamon to his.
Obama turned out his base and Romeny never ever attacked the Lyin kING like he did his fellow R's .
Romney never called the Liar an efn liar who couldn't back up his efn lies. Interesting FACT.
In Woodbury county Steve king won his bid against Vilsuck, Romney lost to OBlahBlah! The most conservative member of congress won where Romney lost?
Obama voters to the polls in mass coloring in one circle only cause someone showed the stupids which one OBAMA!
Posted by: ConcealedKerry Or SubMitt at November 15, 2012 04:18 PM (THBnv)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:18 PM (hhVWg)
Hey rdbrewer.
Perhaps, but IMHO, we psychologically tend to focus on small fluctuations and lose sight of the macroscopic picture. The election was lost before the last two weeks if you look at the demographics.
Maybe we can make a case that Romney would have pulled out a smaller attrition (or gain) over McCain if it wasn't for the Hurricane and Christie -- fuck him as far as I'm concerned -- which was the single issue identified in the exit-polling strong enough to flip all four states. It cut down Romney's closing argument about working across the aisle and if we assume it was weak propensity voters who stayed in, maybe that's the one issue that could have coupled 4 state flips together.
I just don't know, but that won't stop me from disliking and doing whatever I can in '16 to stop Chris Christie.
Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2012 04:19 PM (jhI6f)
precisely my read as well...
somhow the answer is always "well we are not donkey enough" Pelosi ain't gephardt the donks are thrilled when we go left they do too////
No we need somebody to look into cameras NOW and say "Hi you may have heard i'm the embodiment of all evil, but I'm also the guy who won't try to control your life down to your toilet paper while keeping businesses from having wiggle room to hire you."
In spanish and english.
Fuck 'em fight in THEIR ground not ours.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (zpqa2)
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (CeNUw)
Posted by: argh at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (cVfzv)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (bxiXv)
Let it burn.
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (EZl54)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 04:21 PM (i0vBR)
If we're gonna go that route let's run Mister Fantastic...I hear he does well with the chick vote.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:21 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 15, 2012 04:21 PM (yJYwC)
Stop with the recriminations!!! Romney was never my choice, but it really doesn't matter who the nominnee was. If half the populace cannot discern that just maybe they shouldn't have seconds on the four years of abject shit-flavored failure served up by President Affirmative Action Jug-ears McFuckstick Clusterfuck Commie Muslim Bastard, then all this discussion is academic.
Presnit Asshole ObasketballBrackets was elected by getting the only endorsement that mattered in this election: Honey Boo Boo. That roly-poly inbred retard and her slack jawed meth-house family and everyone else like her can now learn what life in a socialist paradise in a world without a dynamic America is like.
Let it burn.
Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 04:21 PM (1Rw2p)
That's interesting. Only about 26% of voting age Americans voted for President Disaster.
I feel a little better about my fellow Americans.
_ __ ____ ___ ______ ___ _______ ______ ____ ___ __ __
I predict no deal on the fiscal cliff. I predict they'll find a way to fund needed military operations, and the rest of the "cliff" is a gentle slope compared to what's coming over the next 10 years anyway. And the PTB know that.
Posted by: Meremortal says Starve The Beast, Go Galt at November 15, 2012 04:22 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 04:22 PM (Iyg03)
I think you're right. Californians have gotten so used to having Prop. 13 in place that they have forgotten what things were like when it wasn't there.
Now that the Dems have their legislative supermajority, and that the voters have endorsed a massive tax hiking scheme via proposition, I predict that by 2016, you're going to see the re-emergence of a powerful anti-tax movement in the state.
Posted by: Robert_Paulson at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (HU5cF)
I'm okay, but jeeeezz, I'm the cook.....
At least none of them are libtards....
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (UOM48)
Since 1928, every winning GOP presidential campaign had has a Bush or Nixon on the ticket.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (0kZ2I)
Posted by: L, just L at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (0PiQ4)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 04:24 PM (z4WKX)
ah ha.
Like a Back Burn. Clear out the deadwood and trash brush.
Got to watch the direction of the wind or you eat it.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:24 PM (SP4jC)
Since Ross Perot ruined it all and gave us Clinton (who won by getting less than 50% of the vote) - our nation has gone down hill.
The Reagan days are over. We now live in a nation so dumbed down, so controlled by leftwing media, I really don't know if a conservative could win.
Posted by: Fresh at November 15, 2012 04:24 PM (O7ksG)
They're unified. We're not.
Remember 2008? When PUMAs weren't going to vote for Obama? Then they did?
Or 2012. Obama pissed off AAs with the gay marraige thing and the lousy economy. Voted for him anyway.
Collectivists act collectively.
Posted by: Secundus at November 15, 2012 04:25 PM (g3jwX)
Posted by: jewells45 at November 15, 2012 04:25 PM (u25eL)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 04:25 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:26 PM (hhVWg)
****
Say a prayer fr the folks in Midland before you do.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:26 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:26 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (zpqa2)
I told you the answer...make a REAL alternative and then let Ogabe do his worst make them own the cost of lightbulbs, your shower temp all the fucking sierra club bullshit they push....
fuck them win or lose fuck them
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: Tommy V at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (ZYlKz)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (0kZ2I)
"Presnit Asshole ObasketballBrackets was elected by getting the only endorsement that mattered in this election: Honey Boo Boo. That roly-poly inbred retard and her slack jawed meth-house family and everyone else like her can now learn what life in a socialist paradise in a world without a dynamic America is like."
This.
Posted by: Fresh at November 15, 2012 04:28 PM (O7ksG)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 08:22 PM (Iyg03)
____ ____ _____ _____ ____ ____ ____ ____ _____ _ _____ __
I disagree. The tipping point leading to eventual fiscal collapse was passed around 2006-7. Things swinging back our way will only delay the bust and the recovery. If things are allowed to proceed slowly into the abyss (Republican plan), we will suffer longer and get the fun of experiencing a complete social as well as financial collapse.
Let It Burn, and make it snappy. There's work to be done, and Republicrats aren't going to do it.
Posted by: Meremortal says Starve The Beast, Go Galt at November 15, 2012 04:28 PM (1Y+hH)
DARPA looking for amateur astronomers. They'll be giving some equipment out. Your tax dollars at work.
Posted by: LC LaWedgie at November 15, 2012 04:28 PM (rzTDZ)
Posted by: jewells45 at November 15, 2012 08:25 PM (u25eL
You are so right. I asked my husband tonight, "How do you explain your liberal mother and siblings? And how do you explain their hatred of Israel?"
My husband, as much as I love him, is a coward when it comes to his family. He just gets up and hides in his home office.
I tossed out, as he walked away, "How do you explain your family to our Marine son?"
Nothing.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 04:28 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 04:29 PM (GEICT)
You're assuming the economy won't collapse before then.
It's not a sure thing that won't happen.
US banks and brokerages are leveraged up the wazoo (thousand of percent. yes I said thousand of percent leverage) with EU country sovereign debt.
If the EU crumbles, the US goes with it. Now the G10 will have to step in then to regulate and slow the collapse but there really isn't much they can do unless they completely abrogate all the treaties and laws that govern the financial markets.
And if they do THAT then the system is shown to be a fool's game and it collapses anyway.
Who's going to use any currency (well maybe the renminbi) to make or receive payments? all trade, all sales, all purchases, all borrowing, all lending comes to a halt until it gets sorted out.
That may take days, weeks, months. Nothing moves until it does.
Hope you've got some food and water laid up.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:30 PM (SP4jC)
I do not blame Romney. Politics is the art of managing people and their expectations.
The sad fact is that the average troll at Ace's represents > 40% of the thought process of the American electorate.
The rest are just helpless, clueless and barely able to tie their shoes.
The only way to manage/pacify teh crazy is EBT cards and the lottery.
It is cyclical . As soothsayer notes, "things change".
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 04:30 PM (EZl54)
---
I predict they'll leave en masse and come infect red states like mine.
Posted by: Lady in Black at November 15, 2012 04:30 PM (lTVJy)
Posted by: Dave S. at November 15, 2012 04:30 PM (UvR6d)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:30 PM (uvNSk)
One more thing to note. Romney ran ahead of nearly all the down-ballot Senate races, especially those who are more conservative. Hell, I think he ran ahead of Ted Cruz!?
It's hard to construct an argument that he's not conservative enough, especially when the Sen. candidates who ran relatively better vis-a-vis Romney are those who score more liberal end of spectrum.
This would dovetail with the hypothesis it's a generalized demo problem, not that you're just not drawing out your demo as you contend.
Something to consider.
Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2012 04:30 PM (jhI6f)
Posted by: kawfytawk at November 15, 2012 04:30 PM (JWLqy)
Posted by: Fresh at November 15, 2012 04:31 PM (O7ksG)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 04:31 PM (i0vBR)
ma'am not telling you your business....he's stuck.
I am not the norm on blood family I know this.
I walked away for 15 years.
I'll pray for you all.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:31 PM (LRFds)
18 year olds should not be allowed to vote.
Really? Bring back the damned draft. Unicorn-worshiping wimmins first. Hipsters next.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 04:31 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 15, 2012 04:32 PM (bxiXv)
WE'RE GOING TO BE BLAMED REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 04:32 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: kawfytawk at November 15, 2012 04:33 PM (JWLqy)
Then let's think outside of the box....
quick everyone RUN TO CALI as they leave FUCK THEM!
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:33 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 04:33 PM (z4WKX)
Since Ross Perot ruined it all and gave us Clinton (who won by getting less than 50% of the vote) - our nation has gone down hill.
Posted by: Fresh
Blaming Ross because George Herbert Walker ADA Bush appealed to almost nobody. Great. The only reason anyone talked about deficit reduction after 1992 was because Bush played it up big, used pie charts to explain things in common parlance, and used metaphors people could relate to. Oh wait, that was Perot.
Posted by: SFGoth at November 15, 2012 04:33 PM (dZ756)
*****
Canada came out with support for Israel last night and Britain today. I think we issued a statement along the lines of Hamas needing to back off.
It's the "or else" that's missing.
Meanwhile, IDF has assembled troops on the border.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:33 PM (piMMO)
Citizens verse Civilians: Heinlein might have been onto something...
Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2012 04:33 PM (jhI6f)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 04:34 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 08:24 PM (LRFds) ........
I'm making plans, literally. And I don't mean literally in the Joe Biden sense, I mean literally in the literal sense.
Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 04:34 PM (1Rw2p)
Posted by: Tommy V at November 15, 2012 04:34 PM (ZYlKz)
****
No kicking of Banana Twins allowed!
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:35 PM (piMMO)
Really? I thought he ran ahead in 4 and down in 10. IIRC.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 04:36 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: jewells45 at November 15, 2012 04:36 PM (u25eL)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 08:32 PM (Iyg03)
Seconded. Everyone look in the mirror-- the person looking back at you is Emanuel Goldstein. Or Emanuelle, if you're an 'Ette.
Posted by: Secundus at November 15, 2012 04:36 PM (g3jwX)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:36 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: L, just L at November 15, 2012 04:36 PM (0PiQ4)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:37 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Tommy V at November 15, 2012 04:37 PM (ZYlKz)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:37 PM (hhVWg)
I liked Perot, but he gave us Clinton. Sorry. 3rd party bad juju.
_________
I'm not convinced Perot took more voters from Bush than Clinton. After 3 GOP terms by 1992 people wanted something else with or without Perot there.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2012 04:38 PM (0kZ2I)
We need a better candidate, a better ground game, and a special double dose of B-12 or whatever it takes to not only run against the democrats, but against the pro-democrat media complex. (and hollywood and all the other institutionalized lefty Cloward Piven Alinsky commie clap trap)
Posted by: Fresh at November 15, 2012 04:38 PM (O7ksG)
Posted by: Kasper Hauser at November 15, 2012 04:38 PM (7x9pP)
Posted by: lowandslow at November 15, 2012 04:39 PM (GZitp)
I predict they'll leave en masse and come infect red states like mine.
Posted by: Lady in Black at November 15, 2012 08:30 PM (lTVJy)
F**king Californians and some other undesirables have made CO a blue state. Something unheard of 20 years ago.
Posted by: Ronster at November 15, 2012 04:39 PM (nQMHQ)
The Tea Party - anathema to the Boston Boys in 2012. "Don't worry. We have our Etch A Sketches fired up and ready to go for the general!"
Flip's brain trust couldn't reach the people sitting out the general election because all they could see was another Washington-Wall Street Axis enabler. He didn't earn their interest or their trust. And he didn't even try.
Posted by: mrp at November 15, 2012 04:40 PM (HjPtV)
Posted by: Tommy V at November 15, 2012 04:40 PM (ZYlKz)
I responded, "So I guess our son in the Marines is 'too harsh' being fed up with your family?"
He stomped out and went into his little Man Cave Office.
Glad our son is getting out. His libtard grandmother, aunts, uncles and cousins never supported him. And his oldest female cousin told him so last Christmas, his first Christmas home in three years, and pre-deployment.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 04:40 PM (UOM48)
****
Yes. My all-time favorite snack food that hasn't been sold here for what seems like decades now. Yet, a certain moron likes to occasionally post pictures of them in stores in Ohio just to taunt me.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 04:40 PM (piMMO)
2) We always get blamed regardless of what happens.
Therefore: We cannot win by becoming more like the Democrats. Their primitive, reptilian in-group herding instincts--the same ones that cause them to flock to big cities, to need to be around other like-minded people for self-validation--will never be persuaded by us acting like "nice guys." "Nice guy" got Bush 41 nowhere. Why?
Because we're in a different tribe (to them).
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 04:41 PM (Iyg03)
Yup. I need a few nights more sleep and to be as calm as i can probably won't be on a while.
The secessionists screwed up and didn't organize we made the tea party instead in part.
They will call us racist while calling us white and saying they are happily importing aliens against our will.
Alec baldwin pissed me off enough I can't think clearly on it but I think I am ready to move on.
The nation is over and I am not letting those bastards steal the whole thing.
I think the red need to keep concentrating and take over the red totally and long march or elect to Constitutional government.
I am pretty sure if we all really love the Bill of Rights we can do either that or have a nice civil war with a bunch of foreign kids indoctrinated to hate us in 10 years.
I am not letting a 18 year old who has never been taught capitalism and the founding tell me what being an American is.
It is not gonna happen I'll tolerate native born fuckhead marxists trying to steal my nation I am not letting shake and bake "americans" with no love of my nation in any way do so.
This is not about race it is about Locke and Marx.
We need to try to win, I do not want to split but if they leave no other alternative and I am having a hard time seeing one what can we do?
They brainwash the kids, they bombard their heads with bullshit on the tube and film, and they cheat their asses off while reporting outright lies as fact and fact as spin.
I don't want to kill anybody I want left alone.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:41 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 04:42 PM (z4WKX)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 04:42 PM (sRus3)
Good analysis. The thing is that for the Left, politics IS their job. They don't believe in the idea of a "citizen-legislator", they believe they are "philosopher-kings". I'm sorry, but a degree in public policy, even if it's from the Kennedy School of Government, doesn't give anyone the divine right to tell me how to live my life. I'll put my IQ scores up against any of the Left's "intellectuals". The difference between me and them isn't IQ, it's that I have no desire to tell anyone how to live their lives and even less of a desire to codify my preference for how you live your life into law.
But, there are a lot of sad sacks out there who will gladly trade their birthright as free people for a mess of pottage, stolen by the person with the degree in public policy from "someone else", and the richer that "someone" is, the better.. Clearly, that was already a problem when the Bible was first written down, so the issue isn't exactly new.
At this point, I'm looking ahead not just to 2014, 2016, but to 2020 and beyond and I just don't see any possible solution except for the one which absolutely CAN'T happen in the short-term, i.e. secession. I think that if the past 30+ years after Carter's defeat have taught me anything, it's that the Left refuses to learn from history and it has the ability to take naive kids and turn them into a voting force which can turn elections.
It's either that or make an all-out play for the white vote by highlighting Obama's racial radicalism. If what I am reading is true, he's on the cusp of implementing "affirmative action on steroids". Why? I thought that "affirmative action" was always designed to be a temporary program, with less and less need for it every year, so why would there be any need to amp it up now? Peeling off 10% of the Dem's share of the white vote would have tipped the election to Romney. Maybe there is a limit to how far the "marginal" white Democrat can be pushed? As many analysts have noted, there isn't enough money floating around in the system to pay off all of the Left's hangers-on and, if I were a betting man, my bet would be that the first people whose checks will stop are white male Democrats. Pull enough of them over to the GOP and it will negate any of the other demographic shifts.
The irony is that those same single white women who helped provide Obama's 2012 margin of victory will, in many cases, get married between now and 2016 and, if they have a kid between now and then, will pull the lever for the GOP candidate in that year. If only there were some way to speed up their political maturity so that they understood this in 2012, but that's an existential process that each individual has to go through for herself.
Posted by: The Grand Inquisitor at November 15, 2012 04:42 PM (P2Ufm)
Well, there's that possibility, too.
Posted by: Robert_Paulson at November 15, 2012 04:42 PM (HU5cF)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:42 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: political correctness czar at November 15, 2012 04:43 PM (Q2Ne0)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:44 PM (hhVWg)
Which is a good point considering other things you've discussed and I've mentioned.
I'd contend our main fight needs to be with the legacy media.
Think about this in another way. Reagan, our one superstar, was a fucking actor. He was widely known prepolitics in California and had already built up a rapport with the voter which enabled him to side-step the media filter and have something of a separate communications channel for his time. He could have never built that during a campaign without getting Goldwater-ed.
Same thing happened with Romney. Same thing as you said will happen with the fiscal cliff.
Obama was a small-time Chicago pol who had the media apparatus building him up into something he wasn't and isn't. We don't have that.
The media must die in the long-term and in the short-term candidates must cultivate a relationship with voters from early on. Years ahead. Embed themselves in late night TV, daytime TV, Morning Shows, ESPN, charity events with celebrities, etc
Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2012 04:44 PM (jhI6f)
We are going to be forced to have health insurance by the federal government under penalty of law. We are not free people, that America is gone.
Posted by: lowandslow at November 15, 2012 04:45 PM (GZitp)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:46 PM (hhVWg)
Not smart hard.
I dunno I need sleep.
I keep hearing something from my oath rattling in my brain....
"all enemies foreign and domestic"
I am having a hard time grasping how trying to inflict tyrrany with the help of shake and bake americans doesn't apply?
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:46 PM (LRFds)
"
Leftists can be so classy.Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:46 PM (hhVWg)
Posted by: Secundus at November 15, 2012 04:47 PM (g3jwX)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:47 PM (uvNSk)
He was so much more than just an actor. Good grief.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 04:48 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: Dante at November 15, 2012 04:48 PM (NWLVJ)
Posted by: matt foley at November 15, 2012 04:48 PM (ES9kw)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:48 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Mega at November 15, 2012 04:48 PM (KVrHS)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 04:49 PM (sRus3)
No they aren't classy in anything other than Class war.
Jane I'm sorry to hear it is that bad your hubby feels squeezed.
Loyalty is a wobbly thing.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:49 PM (LRFds)
Dear Jane,
I lurk more than I write because I usually write something stupid. Same thing with when I talk. I don't answer my wife sometimes because I will probably break whatever I am trying to fix and I don't want to push her away over my stupid mouth.
On another note, I have been a lurker at Ace's for years and have read and shared with my wife (a recovering California born liberal)about your experiences with your son going into the service and your very funny comments! My son is going to Army basic in January and we are absolutely terrified for his future.
Hope my suthern publik skool illiteracy doesn't make this sound creepy.
Shorter version: I think you are a pretty cool person and a sorta conservative mom role model.
I hope things get better for you very soon and I believe that they will.
T
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 04:50 PM (EZl54)
Posted by: Ed Anger at November 15, 2012 04:50 PM (tOkJB)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:51 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: BignJames at November 15, 2012 04:51 PM (j7iSn)
Posted by: political correctness czar at November 15, 2012 04:51 PM (Q2Ne0)
Posted by: mrp at November 15, 2012 04:51 PM (HjPtV)
I am a child of two alcoholic parents one functional the other while alive not./..
there's truth to what you say but the happiest years of my life in some ways wwere when I was ignoring them and working my ass off.
The problem is the green gaia cult interferes with the economy as a holy sacrament....
I've had enough.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:51 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Model-1066 at November 15, 2012 04:51 PM (NoDnj)
Posted by: Fresh at November 15, 2012 08:29 PM (O7ksG)
18 year old military aren't allowed to vote it seems.....
Posted by: Tami at November 15, 2012 04:52 PM (X6akg)
"all enemies foreign and domestic"
you remember it right.
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 04:52 PM (EZl54)
I love my husband, but the "holidays" bring out the hate.
I told him tonight, "I hope your late dad and your mom can square things with Jesus after their years of hating Israel and those nasty Jews."
Not a fun evening in our house. And I'm tired of his liberal family and just don't give a shit.
Ugh. I love him, but what a puss with his fucking family. As I said to him, "How the hell did we raise a Marine when you're scared to death of your liberal family????"
He's locked in his home office now. Sigh.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 04:53 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 04:53 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 15, 2012 04:53 PM (hhVWg)
She offered to help several times during the 2012 cycle, but the Rombots told her to go pound sand. On Karl's advice.
This was an "all hands on deck" election. The Democrats figured that out early on. The GOP Establishment never did.
Time for a Stalin Purge, of the Establishment.
Posted by: Adolf Hitler's Last Parody Video at November 15, 2012 04:53 PM (CUoon)
Posted by: L, just L at November 15, 2012 04:53 PM (0PiQ4)
I don't think we can but we need someone to at least try....
ideally the whole party.
Attack the motherfucking media.
Directly don't give the fuckers an inch.
Make them own their bias.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:54 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 04:54 PM (uvNSk)
He's locked in his home office now. Sigh.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 08:53 PM (UOM4
Sorry Jane, that sucks, but sometimes the truth hurts them the most.
Posted by: spypeach at November 15, 2012 04:55 PM (pwTow)
Jane with the business trouble he has to be in a cornered state I am not saying you're wrong just saying circle the wagons the best you can....
Hell maybe you should run Red....
sounds like you need the distance form the "blue helpers"
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:55 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 08:53 PM (UOM4
Rattle his cage. Kick the door.
Posted by: Ronster at November 15, 2012 04:55 PM (nQMHQ)
Also, if you're close enough to get faces couldn't facial recognition software at least initially flag possible duplicates for further investigation?
Posted by: Lemmenkainen at November 15, 2012 04:55 PM (K1JW0)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 04:56 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Jmel at November 15, 2012 04:56 PM (c+D8V)
Obviously your not a Golfer!
Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 08:53 PM (uvNSk)
Correct. Never chased a little white ball around a park.
Posted by: Ronster at November 15, 2012 04:57 PM (nQMHQ)
Correct they are told bleive and never ponder that the guy in the nice house up the street can buy them paradise....
that is REALLY what they think.
They watch bullshit like American idol and the Adventures of Boo Hoo the Honeybear or whatever in a 200-1 ratio....
but by god the donks tell 'em to vote.
goddamned simpletons I want a serious nation.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:58 PM (LRFds)
I like the way you think. I didn't even have to read past your fourth sentence. You're bang on, my friend. Let's do it. Course, we'll probably all end up with mystery fatal heart conditions and our coroners will be poisoned, but fuck it.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 15, 2012 04:58 PM (6JMZR)
Also, if you're close enough to get faces couldn't facial recognition software at least initially flag possible duplicates for further investigation?
You hit on something kid.
Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2012 04:58 PM (jhI6f)
Your ilk costs us election. Your moral lectures and busy body into people's personal lives is annoying.
Posted by: Mega at November 15, 2012 04:58 PM (KVrHS)
Posted by: Is what JQ Public is thinking.... at November 15, 2012 04:59 PM (Sl7KY)
Posted by: Dave S. at November 15, 2012 04:59 PM (UvR6d)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 04:59 PM (sRus3)
I have spent my life with them but escaped with my hot female hostage who I have "brainwashed".
Used to spend Thanksgiving listening to Boooooosh! and assorted fruitcake theories. Found out that they all hate to travel.
We moved.
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 05:00 PM (EZl54)
I really think my husband is dreading being around his smug liberal siblings (none of whom have ever owned a business).
My husband is a good man, and a civic leader.
I'm calming down....a bit.
Anyhow, grateful for having this place to blow off steam. (Now to go kiss my sweet husband.)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 05:00 PM (UOM48)
Posted by: dogfish at November 15, 2012 05:01 PM (N2yhW)
i would say that of the people i know that pay attention to politics, there might be two that are thoughtful and kind liberals. the rest are thoughtful and kind conservatives or loudmouthed, intolerable liberals. some are extended family. it's hard to be polite, not acquiescent but polite, which is usually the defacto conservative setting, with these people so i will probably never return to certain family gatherings and will not tolerate their visits to my home.
Posted by: matt foley at November 15, 2012 05:02 PM (ES9kw)
I think we ought to do so as well en masse.
I want a peaceful reset and if need be I hope an amicable split.
We need TOTAL control of academia in our regions.
They are literally erasing our nation.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:02 PM (LRFds)
I've had four years of moral lectures and busy bodies coming from the White House. All I ask is to be left alone.
Posted by: mrp at November 15, 2012 05:04 PM (HjPtV)
Posted by: Tommy V at November 15, 2012 05:04 PM (ZYlKz)
Yup....
unmotivated voters will hardly be the ones who will be willing to run to the red as things fall....
if you're too lazy to stop Choom you're too lazy to fight out an existence in a harder economic model.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:04 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: jeannebodine at November 15, 2012 05:04 PM (48+2q)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 05:04 PM (uvNSk)
Me: "Sure, as long as they understand some people will be drinking alcohol and the atmosphere will be 'festive.'"
Husband: "They're cool with that. They're offering to bring more."
Heh.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 05:05 PM (UOM48)
No it is without effort and yes we as a nation are allowing Charles Schumer and friends to try to undo the founding with shake and bake Americans and kids not taught our founding principles at all.
I blame us for allowing his little buddies to wreck this nation.
I am ruminating how hard to go in counterprogramming the BS they all have been forcefed.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:05 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Christmasghost at November 15, 2012 05:05 PM (CkK+I)
I am sure everyone has left this thread by now but.......In the spirit of what would Breitbart do? I have an answer. In all of those precincts/cities where there were zero votes for Romney, he would have offered up a $10K reward to xxx number of people who DID vote R. How is it that no one has come forward saying they voted for Romney in Ohio, FL, IL, etc.?
2nd thought -- we need to start a ground game right now that clearly outlines how voting D. plants you firmly back in the white man's plantation. You are nothing but chattel, voting for your supper. And it is 1/TRUE and 2/VIVID.
thoughts?
Posted by: CalyxtheCommoner at November 15, 2012 05:06 PM (rfLqY)
He was so much more than just an actor. Good grief.
That wasn't my point.
When you relax, breath and back down from the shrine lets walk through how my comment was about the fact that by the time he ran nationally he was well known and ingrained in the psyche of a plurality of Americans as a Good Guy
Romney, too, was a good guy. A really good fucking guy. But that means nothing when the legacy media controls what's pumped out there about you and they tell you he's a wife killer who's only out for the rich.
My point is that we need to get our young stars out there and build rapport, get in the minds of voters associated with positive things years ahead of the run.
Once again, Heinlein has a quote which I wish Romney could have embodied early:
"The hardest part about gaining any new idea is sweeping out the false idea occupying that niche. As long as that niche is occupied, evidence and proof and logical demonstration get nowhere. But once the niche is emptied of the wrong idea that has been filling it — once you can honestly say, "I don't know", then it becomes possible to get at the truth." -- Robert Heinlein.
Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2012 05:07 PM (jhI6f)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 05:07 PM (sRus3)
Posted by: NoBama12 at November 15, 2012 05:07 PM (ykY2u)
No I would not be shocked at all....
at all....
It is why the last Church I went to was two stations ago.
Southern churches still get it.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:07 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 08:32 PM (Iyg03)
__ ___ ____ ___ ____ ___ ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ __
I agree, and so that fact should have no bearing on what we do.
Posted by: Meremortal says Starve The Beast, Go Galt at November 15, 2012 05:07 PM (1Y+hH)
Yup. More sanity. Earlier this year, they also sent voter registration cards to every welfare recipient in MA. Remember? The commies are fighting a battle with us on every single front and we can't even agree on what color f*cking uniforms to wear.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 15, 2012 05:08 PM (6JMZR)
Dammit, rdbrewer, I don't know who you think you are but the elephant in the living room YOU clearly cannot see is that common sense logic has NO place in today's Republican Party!
Good Day, Sir!
Posted by: Sgt. York at November 15, 2012 05:08 PM (yk8/j)
Maybe. Maybe annoying. But that's about it, really.
In fact, it isn't even annoying, it's about as much of an imposition as your nagging mother.
It's not the "moral lecturers" who are banning 20oz sodas.
Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2012 05:10 PM (xSegX)
It doesn't matter what we do.
Let. It. Burn.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 15, 2012 05:10 PM (UOM48)
Haven't read through all the comments, so I may be repeating someone else's observation here.
But - sorry, whatever Rove says and whatever this post says, they both miss the point. An electorate that would re-elect this disastrous, divisive, un-presidential, alien failure of a public figure would be unlikely to respond to a "conservative" candidate. Specifically, if the implication is that Romney could not draw out his needed and natural base due to his lack of conservative cred, then forget it.
Anyone who was even partially aware of and comprehended what the current administration represents, and had any sense - and especially if they are "conservative" - would have indeed crawled over live coals to vote the SCOAMF out. Completely aside from fiscal matters, it is doubtful things have ever been as grave since the Civil War. The lawlessness, a constitution literally on its last legs - hell, even post-constitutional arrangements embodying the essential checks and balances of the system, such as the long-standing arrangement governing recess appointments without Senate approval - just about everything is off the rails.
With a collapsed Fourth Estate and dumbed-down electorate and people with truly alien instincts and tendencies at the pinnacle of power, it is no hyperbole whatsoever to say the US has come to resemble one of the less awful South American authoritarian states, or at least is trending towards a Third World situation.
If "conservative" voters couldn't hold their nose and come out for Romney, it is as though they don't exist, and you can't really base any future political strategy on them.
My contention: they DON'T exist, not in any material numbers anyway. Yes, the implications of that are grave. I do not see any plausible path for a departure from the path of degradation and decline. Institutions don't self-repair, and there really aren't that many Americans in America any more.
Posted by: non-purist at November 15, 2012 05:10 PM (UViC2)
You clearly missed the part where #59 said "conservative". Romney was definitely NOT that guy.
Seriously, fuck off with your "purist" bullshit.
Run a Conservative, or kiss us "purists" goodbye.
Posted by: Sgt. York at November 15, 2012 05:11 PM (yk8/j)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 05:12 PM (sRus3)
1. Disregard the specific interests of the Whites and let their numbers decline;
2. Woo Hispanics and allow or encourage their numbers to increase.
The rational part of this policy is the tacit acknowledgement that the Republican Party cannot survive without an ethnic base. If the party is unwilling to help the Whites survive, a replacement for the Whites must be found, and it's not going to be the Blacks.
The irrational part of this policy is that wooing the Hispanics has never worked, is not working and never will work, because Hispanics are Democrats. They know what they want, and the Democratic Party will supply it while the Republican Part cannot. (Out-bidding the Democrats is hopeless, as they can and will escalate to beat any bribe.) And while the part where Hispanics become Republicans never works, the part where they grow in numbers works very well.
This has created a crisis for the Whites, who remain the irreplaceable base of the Republican Party. They lack political representation, because the Republican Party profits from their votes but does not address harms done to them, such as Affirmative action and displacement-level immigration. And demographically, they are going under.
In three to four more presidential cycles, 12-16 years, the Republican Party must turn things around, or it will be forever irrelevant, in America at large as in California. The political playing field continues to move left by a point or two every election cycle, and it's already far enough left to allow a bad President like Barack Obama to be reelected.
I advocate dropping the Rove policy, which has brought nothing but failure and harm all this century, and turning to help the Whites so that they can help the Republican Party.
The objection to this is, the hour is very late, maybe too late. My first answer to that is, there is no alternative. Asians are just as Democratic as Hispanics; there is no other potential ethnic base to turn to. My second answer is, it's the right thing to do. Condemning Whites in the united States of America to exit history, flooded by replacement-level immigration and dissolved by compulsory integration and assimilation is immoral; with any other ethnic group it would be obvious that forcing them out of existence like this was immoral and opposing that course was the right thing to do. And my third answer is, it might work.
Look how suddenly the anti-White pundits changed from pretending that there was no need to do anything for the Whites because they were in no real danger to saying there is no point in doing anything for the Whites because it's too late. The recommendation is always the same, and that leads me to suspect that they are lying, like climate change fanatics who think the solution is one world state control of everything, whether the problem is global cooling, global warming, or the climate staying much the same.
Explicitly do things that are good for Whites, like opposing affirmative action and mass immigration, ask for support from Whites for representing them, and see how much of that still-large White voting base rallies. It might be enough to save the future.
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 15, 2012 05:12 PM (j7LHF)
Because the first is potentially an impossible nut to crack, but the later is just essentially the "liberal, pre-robbed".
Posted by: dantealiegri at November 15, 2012 05:13 PM (mHU03)
Wrong. Completely and totally wrong. The electorate didn't re-elect Barry, half of its low turnout did. And the reason you INSIST on missing is they went with the devil they knew, while many "purists" sat out the election altogether.
Seriously, your "logic" (actually, complete lack of it) is why we had W, McCain and Romney, and fools like you CONTINUE to insist we run Democrat-lite candidates.
You are what's wrong with the GOP.
Posted by: Sgt. York at November 15, 2012 05:13 PM (yk8/j)
There are enough to fill Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi....minimum.....
I am thinking the blue seceded from us in 2001 without telling us and used the war and their kabuki to distract us...then when they got the ball....
I mean fuck is the office that Bush held and the office that Obama holds remotely the same office with the same sets of rules and oversight by the Legislature and media?
I contend no, and they have made clear O can do almost literally whatever he wants.
No the nation is done.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:14 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Jay at November 15, 2012 05:14 PM (kIH56)
Yup so prepare.
This secession call was a joke.
I won't join, but the next one if serious and prepared I may and may likely do so.
I am not chasing the socialists into hell in violation of my oath.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:15 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: T.Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 05:15 PM (EZl54)
We, in Hell, would welcome the disappearance of Democracy in the strict sense of that word; the political arrangement so called. Like all forms of government it often works to our advantage; but on the whole less often thean other forms. And what we must realize is that 'democracy' in the diabolical sense (I'm as good as you, Being LIke Folks, Togetherness) is the finest instrument we could possibly have for extirpating political Democracies from the face of the earth.
For 'democracy' or the 'democratic spirit' (diabolical sense) leads to a nation without great men, a nation mainly of subliterates, morally flaccid from lack of discipline in youth, full of the cocksureness which flattery breeds on ignorance, and soft from lifelong pampering...
C.S. Lewis, "Screwtape Proposes a Toast"
Posted by: Secundus at November 15, 2012 05:15 PM (g3jwX)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 05:16 PM (1Rw2p)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 05:16 PM (sRus3)
Posted by: dantealiegri at November 15, 2012 05:16 PM (mHU03)
Yup...what the hell do the stormfront people think I want to kick out the southern African Americans or give them anything but the innate rights all men are guaranteed by the founding as seen with the amendments?
Freedom ain't a paycheck or a bonus based on skin hue.
Freedom is the right to get the job if you are the best.
No, I want an economy so good and free nobody is too worried about trying to play race games from either direction.
I will never get that under the blue.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:17 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: dantealiegri at November 15, 2012 05:17 PM (mHU03)
Rand Paul 2016
I saw his father's speech last night, and it was FUCKING AWESOME
Of course, I am a small-l libertarian, so I am inclined to agree, but seriously, the Republicans need to run a badass who's not afraid so say shit. I'm sick of these typical blah-blah-blah 'what we need to jumpstart this economy is to not raise taxes on anyone...................blah'. I'm sick of this superficial, boring, oh-I-have-to-qualify-everything-I'm-saying-so-I-don't-offend-any-part-of-the-electorate bullshit. Stop it with the same old - kill me for saying it! - Reagan obsession. And not an obsession with Reagan himself, but this mythical magic-man who comes down from the sky with tax cuts to stimulate the economy. We need a new message - an abstract one, not the same tired talking points, but for someone to go out there any say something new. It can be conservative, but something that we haven't heard yet, or heard in hundreds of years. What about the military-industrial complex is not totally bureacratic and socialist? Why do conservatives defend that bloated mess and then criticize the federal government? I was in the military, and my fellow sailors were all brave and great at what they do, but while I was in there was a whole lot of post-office type shit going on, too. Political correctness training, paperwork, red tape. Seriously, Greg Gutfeld should run for President in 2016. I am dead serious. I'm sick of these boring suits. Fuck it.
Posted by: Jheri Carl at November 15, 2012 05:17 PM (//cIL)
Posted by: logprof at November 15, 2012 05:17 PM (jKE+Z)
Posted by: Uriah Heep
Good quote.
One axe that Romney came close to picking up but didn't was the phrase,"We can do better."
There seemed to be much hay to be made out of Obama's sloppy replies of "Doing Just Fine" in regards to the economy and America's status in the world's eyes.
I have to wonder if Romney went a little hotter and harder with the idea that Obama is just managing our decline. American's don't mind being told that we can do better if you phrase in like a pep talk and it's certainly true.
This election was a referendum on Obama and his lack of management. I have to wonder if Romney would have done better by calling him out with something like "American's don't settle for second best and this President is asking us to settle for last."
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 05:18 PM (4h0z0)
Based on what? His constant change of positions? His inability to corner Barry on Ben Ghazi?
Romney was Obamalite. I held my nose and voted for him only after Ben Ghazi happened. As has been established, many millions more chose not to vote.
At what point is your "we need to run a RINO to win" fantasy going to butt heads with the realities of W, McCain and Romney?
Posted by: Sgt. York at November 15, 2012 05:18 PM (yk8/j)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 05:18 PM (sRus3)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 05:19 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: rickl at November 15, 2012 05:19 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: logprof at November 15, 2012 05:20 PM (jKE+Z)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 05:20 PM (uvNSk)
The United States of Obama... hattip to Spike lee...
I am gonna go get my daily aerobic exercise by screaming for fifteen minutes.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:20 PM (LRFds)
Let's nominate Vic next time.. I'm sure he's gonna garner like 75% of the vote because he's such a true conservative.
RD Brewer.. you're looney.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 15, 2012 05:21 PM (UTq/I)
Your husband's smuglings (smug lib siblings) will eventually be my slaves. No, wait...they will eventually see the light of reason and everyone will live happily ever after. Yeah that's the ticket. I'm drunk and in not a good mood. Perfect frame of mind for the coming apocalypse. Posted by: Model-1066 at November 15, 2012 05:21 PM (NoDnj)
Yup....
if you are in a purple state and fall prey to this suck ass economy if able go to red if need be. Blue run red....
concentrate and by Jesus we need to have babies.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:21 PM (LRFds)
Humm... yeah you are right.
Jeb Bush for 2016! /sarc
Posted by: Huusker at November 15, 2012 05:22 PM (Vq7P1)
We don't care about skin color, we care about culture.
-
Disparate impact means you are legally obliged to care about skin color. Getting rid of that doctrine would be a huge "gift" to Whites.
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 15, 2012 05:22 PM (j7LHF)
I think the perception that he was an Obama-lite probably hurt him a lot. I have talked to some (3-4ish) conservative people that are very aware of Obama's failures, but not highly political, and they all expressed opinions of that nature. I didn't ask if they actually voted for Romney.
Posted by: dantealiegri at November 15, 2012 05:22 PM (mHU03)
Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 05:23 PM (1Rw2p)
The more proper way to look at it if I remember my stupor is this...
The Blue will sit around in their govt allocated share of the cookie jar's spoils raging that they are our slaves while we happily do what tasks we can for those around us to earn our part of our future......
That is why they hate us and it is why we cannot win....
they will never stop hating that in our "selfishness" as they cast it we are in fact surrendering our goods and or services to the whole to be judged on our worthiness.....
I want to be free.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:24 PM (LRFds)
@394 ---- THAT is what I am talking about. If we truly want our country back, we have to be willing to wage an all out guerrilla war on the media. They are in large part responsible for the current regime. They enabled them at every turn. If we want to sit around like the Roves of this world, finding a billion reasons that are NOT the reason for our losses, fine. I don't want to play the blame game. I want to exact pain on the house that media built. We need to 'go rogue' or shut up and sit down. So do we keep up with the 'LIB' strategy or do we put our lives, our hearts, our sacred honor' on the line? I want to steal back our country, not wallow in defeat and despair.
Posted by: CalyxtheCommoner at November 15, 2012 05:24 PM (rfLqY)
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 05:24 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: ConcealedKerry Or SubMitt at November 15, 2012 08:20 PM (THBnv)
Yeah, right. We had Billy freakin' Graham endorsing Mitt and taking out full-page ads in newspapers for him. Most pastors who have some sway (i.e. tv programs, newsletters, mega-churches) said over and over that we cannot let O have a 2nd term. I'm one of those Christians who believes Mormonism has a false Christ, yet I supported Romney and so did all my Christian friends.
Posted by: Aslan's Girl at November 15, 2012 05:24 PM (KL49F)
I am gonna go stare at the wall a second.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:25 PM (LRFds)
Disparate impact is a shit-tastic liberal legal philosophy that should be flushed down the toilet less you catch another disease.
Posted by: dantealiegri at November 15, 2012 05:26 PM (mHU03)
1 "Sorry, nobody wants this to be true more than me, but I can't buy the argument that goes "When the American people re-elected the most liberal president in history, they did so because the other guy wasn't conservative enough."
But that is exactly what happened. Republicans sat home on their fat-asses because Romney wasn't "Conservative Enough".
By doing so, they re-elected the JEF and , like the Jews of old, sold themselves into slavery.
They wanted everything to be free, except themselves...
They got it.
So it goes...
Posted by: ChrisP at November 15, 2012 05:26 PM (G+4K3)
Every socon I know but one voted Mitt he voted gary Johnson and downticket GOP b/c of the noise around "remove loopholes" he owns too many houses.
One FiCon I know of 3 I'd call that sat out.
Nah we need to stow the firing squad for a bit and find out who turned out.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:27 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 05:27 PM (i0vBR)
The culture has been lost. Hard work and self-reliance are abstract concepts. People think money is created by government and can be just handed out. Capitalism has been blamed for all of our woes and most people believe it. We're screwed.
A strong defense is seen as creating a war machine to invade countries for no good reason. Traditional values? Don't make me laugh. People haven't cared about that since the 50's.
The next opportunity Conservatives will have is when the fiscal collapse comes. MAYBE people will wake up, maybe not.
Posted by: Ken Royall at November 15, 2012 05:28 PM (x0g8a)
I have yet to witness any of these So-Con "moral lectures and busy bodies"?
Unless you mean Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Transexuals groups who lobby Congress for special rights, monies, protections, medical care, etc.
Or maybe the Federal Government lectures in millions of taxpayer $ for PDAs lecturing our kids on how they can't say "gay" or offend a 10 yr old boy who is allowed to wear a dress to school.....or the Federal Government telling K-12 schools they must allow lectures from homosexuals on how they are just normal and natural. And don't forget the "Coming Out" Day of celebration in our HS now!
Or leftwing Hollywood lecturing our kids on how healthy and natural it is to be a lesbian and homosexual....on TV all day and night.
And let us not forget the Federal Government lecturing us and our Churches on paying for contraception, abortion, and sex changes.
Maybe if the commie left would SHUT UP about their sex-life they would not invite pushback. What a novel idea!
Posted by: Pam at November 15, 2012 05:29 PM (cgrL5)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 05:29 PM (jucos)
Freedom ain't a paycheck or a bonus based on skin hue.
Freedom is the right to get the job if you are the best.
No, I want an economy so good and free nobody is too worried about trying to play race games from either direction.
I will never get that under the blue.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 09:17 PM (LRFds)"
The Left will scream until they are blue in the face that your "freedom" is nothing but a "dog whistle" for racists.
Nor will they ever face the implication of that statement, i.e. that minorities are incapable of freedom. Or, if you point that out, they will say that minorities find their "freedom" in "collectivism".
It is literally like they will call "white" "black" with sincerity and a straight face and they've brainwashed minorities to believe that "freedom" is code for "white people running roughshod over us".
They may call their ideology "progressive" but anyone with knowledge of the history ideas will see it for the pre-Enlightenment tribalism that it is.
Posted by: The Grand Inquisitor at November 15, 2012 05:29 PM (P2Ufm)
Posted by: dantealiegri at November 15, 2012 05:29 PM (mHU03)
Posted by: Model-1066 at November 15, 2012 05:30 PM (NoDnj)
Posted by: Texas Ranger at November 15, 2012 05:30 PM (IvvrO)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 05:30 PM (sRus3)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry
Bush was not a fiscal conservative. Period. No point in even trying to argue that one.
Romney's record as Gov. was mixed; focused on balancing a budget but he also increased the size of the state government. We were hoping that he had a different mode when it came to governing the Federal government. There was nothing solid to base that upon but it was all we had.
Chances are he would have pulled the rookie mistake of charging into the budget deficit mess and get lost in the details, after which Boehner and Co would have made another bad deal which only delayed the problems.
But we'll never know.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 05:30 PM (4h0z0)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 05:31 PM (jucos)
Posted by: dantealiegri at November 15, 2012 05:31 PM (mHU03)
Tallahassee's gonna be pissed to find nothing but Drake's and Little Debbie's!
Posted by: derit at November 15, 2012 05:31 PM (I88Jc)
Posted by: Model-1066 at November 15, 2012 05:32 PM (NoDnj)
........
Ok.. so tell me.. who would have won???
Got a name?
I'm willing to listen.. who would have won?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 15, 2012 05:32 PM (UTq/I)
Force concentration is the practice of concentrating a military force, so as to bring to bear such overwhelming force against a portion of an enemy force that the disparity between the two forces alone acts as a force multiplier, in favor of the concentrated forces.
This is an asymmetrical task that the democrats have applied on Republicans and are killing us...
We need to start on a segment of the Democrat partyand apply force concentration until we win...
My suggestion is to start with the Unions...They have become the get out the vote/money laundering operation for the Democrat Party...
Vote with your Dollars everyday...
Stop buying union products...Start with UAW...Plenty of new cars built in Right to work Law states...Toyota and Nissan are built in Mississippi and Alabama...
John Deere is UAW..... Buy MTD products...
Ace mentioned NBC...Not one click or product...
Don't call it boycott...Just vote with your money...
I haven't gone to a movie in 5yrs....I just won't support Hollywood since they have gone High Octane Liberal
If we don't work together we will accomplish nothing...It will be over...
Posted by: Chicken ala King at November 15, 2012 05:32 PM (VvvBE)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 05:32 PM (sRus3)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 05:32 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: Ted Kennedy at November 15, 2012 05:33 PM (GHI/D)
Yup and the media fix is in so hard and so deep, and the moonbats are trying to shovel in outsiders so fast that I am afraid I cannot possibly win the argument that I KNOW I would win in schools given equal time.
I did volunteer work for Junior Achievement in the inner cities in Springfield Ohio in the late 80s early 90s.
Those kids were thrilled to learn economic principles because they had NOT BEEN TAUGHT HOW SHIT WORKS AT ALL.
We are letting motherfuckers like blightworker turn out a goddamned slave cargo cult.
I hate fuckers like you Blightworker.
I hate you because fuckers like you try to make poor white trash your fucking slaves too.
I hate you so much I will peacefully cede my home state to you, but buddy I wouldn't follow me where I stop walking I am not moving after I settle again.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:33 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 05:34 PM (jucos)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 05:34 PM (uvNSk)
I always liked this one. "Gay" is itself an appropriated word.
Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2012 05:34 PM (xSegX)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 05:34 PM (sRus3)
If you really want to help or "save" the Republican Party, there is an easy way, and it's free. It will do more than a million comments in the blogosphere which no one will remember tomorrow.
Register as an independent.
Posted by: Meremortal says Starve The Beast, Go Galt at November 15, 2012 05:34 PM (1Y+hH)
that is a valid tactic, but remember how the Chic fil A hit fell over backwards on the liberals.
Posted by: dantealiegri at November 15, 2012 05:35 PM (mHU03)
In a way, we owe all our failures since then to that asshole.
Because he. knew. better. He knew better than Reagan. He was so arrogant, he felt he could dispense with what got him elected.
Sure the Bushes have a nice temperament. They're statesmen, in fact. The most arrogant statesmen ever.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 05:35 PM (Iyg03)
The branding and IP will have a buyer. The facilities...maybe not. The Brand and IP are worth more than the facilities anyway.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 15, 2012 05:35 PM (GHI/D)
****
They announce the final outcome tommorow morning. If they cave, it will set an awful, terrible precedent, although I can understand them wanting desperately to save as many of the 18k jobs as possible as well as the brand itself.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 05:35 PM (piMMO)
Posted by: Chicken ala King
.........
Hoo boy.. and look what you accomplished! Oh wait.. you accomplished nothing besides miss a bunch of movies.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 15, 2012 05:35 PM (UTq/I)
Posted by: Model-1066 at November 15, 2012 05:36 PM (NoDnj)
Hold me . . .
Posted by: Peaches at November 15, 2012 05:36 PM (kpCLl)
The better candidate, whoever that was, didn't stand up. I'm not saying Romney wasn't our best shot in the choices offered. He was.
But likewise, there is no point in denying that A ) he lost and B ) he never made the choice stark enough.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 05:37 PM (4h0z0)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 05:37 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: dantealiegri at November 15, 2012 09:31 PM (mHU03)"
And, while you would be correct, they will then say that their "racism" is "justified" by "400 years of slavery" or that only whites can be racist because they have "power" and "white privilege".
In which case you are back to defending any policy that doesn't divert resources from whites to blacks, i.e. that you are against minorities because you won't take from whites to give to them.
And, regardless of the illogic of that position, millions of people will nod their heads and vote accordingly. These people are as impervious to logic as zombies or rabid animals.
Posted by: The Grand Inquisitor at November 15, 2012 05:38 PM (P2Ufm)
Yea, I keep forgetting that going out to a movie has always been free.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 15, 2012 05:38 PM (GHI/D)
'sup freaks, 'rons, 'ettes-
Tommorow is my 3 wk. anniv. @ AoSHQ, and I 'gotta tell you, it (the blog, and real life) was a lot more fun "way back then". I have been funkified since the election, and still feel slightly dazed and confused. I was sure the JEF SCoaMF would be packed off to HI, and the speaking tour.
-
I'm not so much mad at him. I always knew what he was/is. I am butt-hurt that the majority of my countrymen choose the "Free Shit Army" over Freedom and Liberty.
-
I'm not ready to completely acquiesce, but I fear there is no "come back". I lean toward L.I.B., but I have teenage boys that I have to consider. It wasn't supposed to be this way, and I'm having a rough time figuring out the path forward. But entering into the holiday season there is still much to be thankful for. True friends, family, God, and the horde. I lift my Valu-Rite to you compatriots. You are the fort!
Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 15, 2012 05:38 PM (mkb9H)
****
There's nothing wrong in standing on principle.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 05:38 PM (piMMO)
-
The Democrats, with regrettable Republican support, have been importing a new nation since 1965. This is fatal for the old nation, since mass immigration is not slowing down. And by "fatal" I mean genocidal, because it's clearly foreseeable that as a result of this mix of policies, White people will cease to exist, in whole or in (large) part. This would be obviously immoral if we were talking about the Japanese or the Taiwanese or any other non-White nation.
It is a hard and unpleasant thing to have to face this and take action to create some sort of tolerance and sustainable co-existence when the default position of politicians like Bill Clinton has become, sure White America will cease to exist, and that's a good thing!
But the hour is very late. If the Republican Party fumbles and fudges and stays the course for just a few more electoral cycles, very bad consequences will follow, and it will be too late for regrets about how this could have been avoided by simple and legitimate democratic means early in the 21st Century.
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 15, 2012 05:38 PM (SWuYh)
Posted by: Winston Churchill at November 15, 2012 05:40 PM (wwsoB)
Posted by: Catseye at November 15, 2012 05:40 PM (c7wu3)
What he said.
I hope the founders retained a stake in the brands. They could be worth billions.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 05:40 PM (4h0z0)
Near a state college campus? They usually have movie nights. Get back some of your wasted tax dollars.
Posted by: derit at November 15, 2012 05:41 PM (I88Jc)
Sweetie, why not just pick a nic and stick with it? As you may have noticed, we're kind of a cranky bunch these days. I suggest Poindexter. Nobody has it yet and it's got a certain je ne sais quoi to it.
Posted by: Peaches at November 15, 2012 05:41 PM (kpCLl)
That is exactly what we need...
Chik fil a was organized by the good guy Repubs....
Successful force concentration by Conservatives...
Remember the Gay protest was going to be a "kiss in" or something like that...The Gay population is only like 1-2% of total population...Which is miniscule anyway...
So it was turned around because we had an overwhelming force to rebut...
Posted by: Chicken ala King at November 15, 2012 05:41 PM (VvvBE)
Posted by: Model-1066 at November 15, 2012 05:42 PM (NoDnj)
Posted by: Jheri Carl at November 15, 2012 05:42 PM (//cIL)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 09:34 PM (sRus3)
___ ___ ____ _____ ____ ___ ___
True in many ways.
We are living in an allegorical sci-fi horror movie.
Posted by: Meremortal says Starve The Beast, Go Galt at November 15, 2012 05:42 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: Catsey
Show us your evidence.
I am genuinely curious, not just snark.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 05:42 PM (4h0z0)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 05:42 PM (Iyg03)
he's a deeply flawed guy but they are literally trying to destroy us in ways we never allowed ourselves to target them and I do not want to target them.
They can either let me go if it comes to that or face my fury which will start off peaceful and political and escalate to match their evil strike for strike.
I am done going left at all.
YOU MOVE barry or show me paradise but I will not cede my beliefs in freedom.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:43 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: notsothoreau at November 15, 2012 05:43 PM (5HBd1)
Posted by: Jheri Carl at November 15, 2012 05:43 PM (//cIL)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 05:43 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: weft cut-loop
...........
Yes, there is plenty denying that.
He made the choice quite stark. The electorate simply wasn't buying it.
I would argue that Republicans need to take more of a populist stance. Romney should have hit Obama on not prosecuting Wall St execs.
Jindal is right.. we look like the party that is defending big money.. the very people/industries fucking over the little guy - i.e US!
We need to push conservatism as a populist view.. we need to re-make the GOP as the party that looks out for middle American workers.. so far, all we seem to do is look like the party defending the rich.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 15, 2012 05:43 PM (UTq/I)
Don't forget GW ran as a "Compassionate Conservative" who wanted to reform ($$) education and Prescription Drugs for seniors.....so many of us were quite concerned about him.<BR>
And then Gore tried to steal the election.<BR>
GW's Administration was in place 3 mos late, and much was left to be done still when 9/11 occurred....8 months in, approx.<BR>
Because of all that, and his dignity in Office, Conservatives still hold a special place in their hearts for him.
Posted by: Pam at November 15, 2012 05:44 PM (cgrL5)
Posted by: Peaches at November 15, 2012 05:44 PM (kpCLl)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 05:44 PM (sRus3)
Humm... yeah you are right.
Jeb Bush for 2016! /sarc
Posted by: Huusker at November 15, 2012 09:22 PM (Vq7P1)
Could we get Tricia to run?
Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 15, 2012 05:44 PM (8cOY0)
Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 05:46 PM (ovpNn)
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 05:46 PM (ou/rY)
They are not stupid enough to just put their intellectual property on the street. I wonder if sno-balls will still be available. This is not the world I grew up expecting!!
Posted by: Peaches at November 15, 2012 05:46 PM (kpCLl)
Posted by: Martin at November 15, 2012 05:46 PM (MSrqi)
Dignity? Dignified hubris.
And, no, he was not a conservative. He was fairly close to Obama in fact in his reckless growing of government.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 05:46 PM (Iyg03)
Dang, why after all these years, I can't get my paragraphs right?
I just got a new comp, anyone have advice for me?
Thanks!
Posted by: Pam at November 15, 2012 05:46 PM (cgrL5)
You mentioned the last time the GOP got a majority was George HW Bush. Also, we haven't received majorities with our later candidates because they were not true conservatives. Well, George HW Bush wasn't a true conservative either.
Posted by: Mark at November 15, 2012 05:47 PM (rvbao)
******
I didn't miss anything nim rod...I don't live for the next greatest movie...
I don't run to Hollywood to give them my earned money...
Comes out on Netflix or free on cable usually within a year...
Posted by: Chicken ala King at November 15, 2012 05:47 PM (VvvBE)
Then the best answer is to split the nation and show them we are the better and more just system.
Fuck the double bind and the nation has been dead since 2001 or 1968 hell one could make the argument without WW2 it may have died in the late 30s early 40s.
I am done allowing fucking Ivy league asshammers to collect trillions of bucks and still fuck up America.
Enough.
Go as Galt as you can prepare as best as you can Let it Burn if you stumble vote with your feet if able.
Concentrate the red and take care of brother and sister red first period.
Fuck the Blue go red.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 05:47 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: Model-1066 at November 15, 2012 05:48 PM (NoDnj)
Posted by: Old Dog at November 15, 2012 05:49 PM (tQYJH)
Hannity is playing that audio of Kerry testifying and the rage has welled up in me to the point that I want to throw something through the t.v.
Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 15, 2012 05:49 PM (piMMO)
To get paragraphs, hit return at least 3 times.
Posted by: Tami at November 15, 2012 05:50 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: deadrody at November 15, 2012 05:50 PM (DkAJe)
Posted by: BignJames at November 15, 2012 05:51 PM (j7iSn)
Posted by: Peaches at November 15, 2012 05:51 PM (kpCLl)
-
Act with hope even if you can't feel hope. And let your feelings be bold too, if you can.
My argument is: where is the reward for crumbling and accepting the future that people like Bill Clinton and Tim Wise are saying is inevitable? Who pays us, when and where, in what coin, for living without hope like they want us to, till we die?
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 15, 2012 05:51 PM (SWuYh)
Imagine Tom Brady throwing a pass so hard into the numbers that it knocks the receiver right out of his pants.
Posted by: derit at November 15, 2012 05:51 PM (I88Jc)
I would like to add that I have (in my short time here) definately developed some faves. There are leaders among this tribe. I see reasoned, considered, comments (you know who you are). And I love the Conservative ladies. From the kitteh gurlz, the matronly/motherly, and the stompy-booted. I love this blog. And I love all of you patriots.
-
Keep the faith. Justice will, eventually, prevail. Ours is the only "winning" philosophy, if we stay true...
Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 15, 2012 05:51 PM (mkb9H)
Posted by: derit at November 15, 2012 09:51 PM (I88Jc)
Heh. Gronk!!!!
Posted by: Peaches at November 15, 2012 05:52 PM (kpCLl)
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 05:52 PM (MmH0Z)
What, you mean like Medicare Part D? Sure.
>>>but Karl Rove turned out the GOP base to an extraordinary extent over red meat conservative issues in 2004
9-11. Iraq. Incumbency.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 05:52 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: Martin at November 15, 2012 05:53 PM (MSrqi)
No, he did not. He refused to set up the distinction and go after Obama for lying about his actions and philosophy.
Romney crafted a nice and genteel proposition when what was needed was a locker-room, unconfortable, gamefaced, miffed coaching.
I would argue that Republicans need to take more of a populist stance. Romney should have hit Obama on not prosecuting Wall St execs.
The Romney nom did make that tac a bit difficult, but I still think he could have tried a version of that before the convention he should have introduced himself to the public outside of the MSM's frame. He could have described his work at Bain as just a biz-doctor or something. Restructuring isn't the same as the stereotypical Wall Street gameshow. A little, but not a a lot room in which to try to be more populist.
Jindal is right.. we look like the party that is defending big money.. the very people/industries fucking over the little guy - i.e US!
Everyone's right after the whistle blows.
We need to push conservatism as a populist view.. we need to re-make the GOP as the party that looks out for middle American workers.. so far, all we seem to do is look like the party defending the rich.
Can't disagree with that. It wouldn't take a lot of populism either to start the seed of doubt with this administration. They are incompetent, credentialed assholes who love the money. Opportunities abound.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 05:53 PM (4h0z0)
Posted by: Model-1066 at November 15, 2012 05:54 PM (NoDnj)
You know how conservatives can win? Not by pandering to certain groups like everyone is saying, or running a 'true conservative' like everyone else is saying. No, let the economy drop off the fiscal cliff. Let us turn into Greece, and then when the dust settles, someone can dust off the original copy of the Constitution and start fresh.
Posted by: Jheri Carl at November 15, 2012 05:54 PM (//cIL)
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 05:55 PM (QupBk)
What have they done?
I find myself waffling between anger and depression.
WTF, O?
So it goes...
Posted by: ChrisP at November 15, 2012 05:55 PM (G+4K3)
I submit that you are discussing the rearrangement of the famous chairs on the Titanic. The idea that electing Republicans will save or even help is not supported by recent history. Reagan's era happened in a different time and country. We are going to have a fiscal collapse or a slow Japan style lost 2 decades or so. Bernanke is walking that tightrope (slow Japan style) right now and has been for some time. Either way, we are going to lose about half our wealth. That's the math, and no candidate or party can change it.
Also, a very high percentage of today's electorate is untouchable by any campaign, candidate, ads or strategy. You must fight over a small percentage who don't pay any attention to politics, let alone geopolitics. That's where rdbrewer is right. You want to win the presidency, get a star with some savvy.
Posted by: Meremortal says Starve The Beast, Go Galt at November 15, 2012 05:56 PM (1Y+hH)
Since the 60s at least, The RINO side of the Repub ledger has let the Dems steer the course of the country by being Dem lite. All the big gubmint and none of the leftist social values. Repubs grew to like being the back benchers and under dogs...permanent minority status... Repubs thought offering things like the Dems was all they needed to do.But itn turns out, a lot of Dems crave Identity. Identity politics is the thing that crushed the Right all along the way. Cause we are Individualists, not identity seekers, and no one seems to see that...at all.
So,When a towering figure uses power and rightist identity it works. Problem is in other countries that combination led to fascism. As Reagan proved, identifying with your leader is the key; and we suck at it. Reagan did it by himself, and had to have two runs at Preezy to get it done. But it can be done...
Giving free shiite is a bunch of the problem, but a certain percentage of those takers might be pryable from the ranks of the Left, and elections can be won. Better, more controlled electronic voting, tabulated in America would help. Criminal prosecution for extra national donations would help. Having a ground game that was as thorough and well guided as the Dem's GOTV effort would be good.
Ultimately, all this is a band-aid:
1/A; either the debt is paid with inflationary dollars, staunching the problem and letting the cycle start over again, or
2/B; the thing collapses and the whole cycle begins anew. But with case 2, or B, the person holding our leash might just speak Russian or Chinese...or worse yet, Arabic...
So, being Christian by nature, I go with Let It Burn...the sooner the better.
Getting it to fix at 20T or 25T to repay...Let It Burn...Let the Left hold it and fix it as far they will...if they even would...Let.It.Burn...
Posted by: sandman is now 9.5 at November 15, 2012 05:56 PM (zxaA2)
#464 - there were 2 people in the race of which Romney was by far the more conservative - saying he wasn't conservative enough compared to someone not even in the race (ore even alive) is useless
#519 - Romney repeatedly said he would repeal Obamacare. Unless one thought he was lying this meant a 75% or more chance Obamacare would be gone. Instead the people who sat home reeelcted the guy with 0% chance of repealing Obamacaer
Posted by: NoBama12 at November 15, 2012 05:57 PM (ykY2u)
Posted by: Walter Sobchak at November 15, 2012 05:58 PM (uvNSk)
Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 05:58 PM (sRus3)
Thx Tami...guess I have been mad enough to post long rants in the past year, lol.
Ok, hope this works.
Posted by: Pam at November 15, 2012 05:59 PM (cgrL5)
Posted by: Snotnosed Nuclear Sonic Punk at November 15, 2012 05:59 PM (Y+woW)
The problem is there's very little being produced even worth bothering to go out to see, even for free. The last thing I saw in a theater was "300", and I bought the DVD as well.
Walmart has these 50-packs of old movies for $10. Most of them are quite bad, but the handful of good ones make the things a much better value proposition than a movie theater. Even the bad one function as sleep aids at night.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 15, 2012 05:59 PM (GHI/D)
Posted by: Dick Nixon at November 15, 2012 05:59 PM (VrVBw)
Sorry, what did you say? We were distracted putting another coat of paint on our "Another Bush/Chris Christie 2016" signs.
Posted by: The Republican Establishment
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 15, 2012 05:59 PM (kdS6q)
I know if I comment now, there will be a new post within 5 minutes........4........3......2....
How does running athlete Paula Broadwell have the torpedoes, in that pic with Petraeus ?
Runners lose those. Must be store bought.
Posted by: seamrog at November 15, 2012 06:01 PM (Qh1Od)
Posted by: BignJames at November 15, 2012 06:01 PM (j7iSn)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2012 06:01 PM (uhAkr)
"A lot of these establishment types like Rove who sold the Party on Romney, simply refuse to acknowledge that he was a flawed candidate. (More precisely, they refuse to acknowledge that they made a mistake.)
2010 was driven chiefly by opposition to Obamacare, so, of course in 2012, the GOP nominates perhaps the one Republican who cannot make a credible case against it because he authored Romneycare.
Party of Stupid(TM) indeed."
"Romney-care" was in one state. Mass legislature and Gov agreed it was ok for Mass. He did NOT advocate it for the US.
If more "Purists" like you, got off the couch and voted for 'Anybody But Obama', the JEF would be gone.
Posted by: ChrisP at November 15, 2012 06:01 PM (G+4K3)
Posted by: bayway48 at November 15, 2012 07:40 PM (FzYtL)
Oh my. I don't know...that sounds extreme
Posted by: Julia at November 15, 2012 06:02 PM (MmH0Z)
I've become fond of #LIB but we have to face up to the problem that there is not a single bit of truth in that the country would inexorably become staunchly conservative after a decline.
There is not a single reason why the public wouldn't be equally inclined to join a full-blown, genocidal Marxist program.
These ideas, while somewhat cathartic, they aren't necessarily true.
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 06:02 PM (4h0z0)
The next six installments of "The Hobbit"
That new James Bond flick, "Octopussy"
Stars Wars reboots
Posted by: derit at November 15, 2012 06:04 PM (I88Jc)
I give them some slack because it is literally impossible to advance a conservative message with the media in the left's corner. there is no way they are going to give it any airtime at all. We simply have to find a way to get around it.
I think we need to do some conservative community organizing. Going out into communities -- poor and minority communities -- and connecting the dots between conservative principles and the specific lives of the people we are talking to. Connecting the dots is not pandering.
Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 09:46 PM (ou/rY)"
I was thinking this week that part of the GOP's problem is that they, on some level, even if not enough, remain the party of "negative rights" as enshrined in the Constitution, while the Dems are all-in on "positive rights". I concluded that part of the reason "negative rights" don't have as much attraction is that they imply the the "positive" parts of life, especially work, are your own responsibility. One of the reasons the media plays the "The Republicans don't give enough details about their plans" is because the "details" of many Republican plans are meant to be filled in by individual citizens pursuing their own rational self-interest. How is Romney supposed to detail out how every person will react to "cutting regulations", for example? Or how they might use a tax cut to save enough to start a side business?
I also think that you need a better future time-orientation to appreciate negative rights, because you need to understand that "positive rights" just divert resources into government-approved schemes and preclude those resources being used in activities which aren't pre-approved by the government. Every dollar that's redistributed from the private economy into Obamacare is obviously a dollar than can't fund a future innovation, for example.
Posted by: The Grand Inquisitor at November 15, 2012 06:04 PM (P2Ufm)
Until we know why, we cannot decide what to do.
Was it fear of losing EBT and unemployment? Anti-Mormonism? Too liberal? Too conservative? Not (choose one, Palin, Perry, Cain, Paul)? Lazy? Liked abortion? What???
Until we know, all of this speculation is based on assumptions, not facts.
Posted by: Miss Marple at November 15, 2012 06:04 PM (GoIUi)
How insane is it that I have arrived at the conclusion the only way to stop that may be to leave?
Make no mistake if not a dictatorship the left want a totalitarian oligarchy using illegal immigration to nullify my vote.
How the fuck did I wind up here?
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 06:04 PM (LRFds)
Foreign markets mostly. Even the really bad stuff out of Hollywood plays well overseas...because their native movie industries are amateurish by comparison to our sucky stuff.
There's been quite a few movies recently that were losers in the domestic market, but were winners when foreign markets weighed in.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 15, 2012 06:05 PM (GHI/D)
Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 06:05 PM (njVMI)
Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at November 15, 2012 06:07 PM (4h0z0)
----------------------------------------
Rubio could run for Bill Nelson's Senate seat just two years later.
Or he could possibly run for Governor of Florida in 2018, because a Dem may very well be elected governor in two years, since Florida's Republican governor has low approval ratings right now.
Posted by: edj at November 15, 2012 06:07 PM (+QKfp)
Maybe but it is too close to home.
I almost wish I had taken the Ft Knox assignment.
I quit Ohio last week, my heart couldn't take being so close when I finally no longer chase my soldier wife.
I think I will be in AK, ND, MT, ID, TX, or LA.....probably LA I know good people in a good parish that live humbly but prepared and will face tomorrow with strong loving hearts.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 06:08 PM (LRFds)
Posted by: troyriser at November 15, 2012 06:08 PM (ptcFO)
Posted by: Peaches at November 15, 2012 06:08 PM (kpCLl)
Sven-
I see your posts and almosts always agree with your articulation. You are one of the leaders. Galt, or run for office? I am not ready to completely capitulate. IronGramps, et al deserve more. We (as a group) have to educate and elucidate the ideal of individual supremacy. Self evidency, and whatnot. Capitalism is the most logical of the models. Keep the faith bro'.
Posted by: Just Another Moron (Formerly New and Semi-New) at November 15, 2012 06:09 PM (mkb9H)
Posted by: Martin at November 15, 2012 06:09 PM (MSrqi)
Then the best answer is to split the nation and show them we are the better and more just system.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 09:47 PM (LRFds)"
I've been saying this since 2004, after seeing the libs' reaction to Bush's win, which struck me as completely psychotic.
On some level, a nation exists to make its citizens happy or, at least derives its legitimacy from not directly causing its citizens to be unhappy. Today's US makes at least half of its population deeply unhappy, depending on the results of elections. Seems to me that's a recipe for instability. There's plenty of land on this continent for two countries.
Posted by: The Grand Inquisitor at November 15, 2012 06:10 PM (P2Ufm)
Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 06:10 PM (njVMI)
Posted by: Cackfinger at November 15, 2012 06:10 PM (CCHli)
That didn't stir up enough support, and it wasn't true anyway. The demographics are even more important than the economy.
People aren't in a state of being ready or near-ready to accept a collective death purely because of the economy. It's not that America is losing some money, or even a lot of money.
It's that the country is going away. More precisely, what made America America, its population and the distinctive values of that population, is going away.
That is what has to be addressed by anyone who wants to restore genuine hope.
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 15, 2012 06:11 PM (SWuYh)
I have never been a fan of the public turning on Big Gov.
Instead, the worse the econ gets, the more they will turn to gov for help, and for employment. We lose more of the public to gov everyday that we "let it burn".
Our only hope is that since we are such a young country, and our history is one of being founded on liberty, that those instinctive memories may still save us.
The question is; do we have enough REAL Americans left remind us?
This is why we cannot wait for ballot box regress....what every we decide to do it had better be fast and furious.
Posted by: Pam at November 15, 2012 06:12 PM (cgrL5)
The systematic demonization of Scott by Democrats and the media is something any would be Republican candidate should study.
As a practical matter, out in the street, he's been no better or worse than any governor FL has had in the past 30 years, but perception has gone against him hard.
Posted by: @PurpAv at November 15, 2012 06:13 PM (GHI/D)
Posted by: rickl at November 15, 2012 06:15 PM (sdi6R)
Posted by: Model-1066 at November 15, 2012 06:16 PM (guWsH)
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 10:02 PM (4h0z0)
--- ---- ----- ----- ---
With respect, you are laboring under the misconception that Republicans can somehow avoid a massive financial contraction (depression) and years of hardship.
They can not. There is no policy including austerity, that will avoid what is coming. All preparations and other strategies should start with that premise, in my opinion. Thanks for reading.
Posted by: Meremortal says Starve The Beast, Go Galt at November 15, 2012 06:16 PM (1Y+hH)
this pretty much goes hand in hand with my theory that the better looking candidate wins the election in the modern era, and it's not much more complicated than that. perceived coolness ie. clinton's sax playing also comes into play.
johnson>goldwater (with the help of the kennedy sympathy)
nixon>johnson
carter>ford (with the help of the nixon scandal)
reagan>carter
reagan>mondale
bush>dukakis
clinton>bush (kinda close here, but women loved clinton and
clinton>dole
bush>gore
bush>kerry
obama>mccain
obama>romney (age mostly)
i am adjusting this hypothesis to replace it with my free shit theory going forward.
Posted by: matt foley at November 15, 2012 06:17 PM (ES9kw)
" You have to do something to get them to vote."
Therefore my fellow Americans, I nominate Eric Holder and Hillary Clinton to fill the two vacancies on the Supreme Court, John Kerry to be Secretary of Defense, and am announcing the only way we can save the country, the nationalization of all IRA's and 401k plans. Also, as gun violence is overwhelming us, I am hereby banning the private purchase of firearms. God Bless America.
Posted by: Barry Obama at November 15, 2012 06:18 PM (VrVBw)
Posted by: Terry Gain at November 15, 2012 06:24 PM (Xri0e)
Posted by: Martin at November 15, 2012 06:25 PM (MSrqi)
Posted by: Avi at November 15, 2012 06:32 PM (40anC)
-
I've said before: come back Pat Buchanan, much is forgiven. He turned out to be right on useless war, on demographics and on the culture.
The only major thing I think he's wrong on is that he's started to counsel resignation, and I think the right thing to do is to hope, and counsel hope, and act accordingly, however foolish or "sickening" some people may find that.
631 The GOP has traditionally been bound together by its ideals--limited government, individual self-determination, fidelity to founding principles.
-
Have you noticed that the Democratic Party has imported a new nation that thinks the opposite? "For the Race, everything, outside the Race, nothing!" A new population creates a new situation.
Have you noticed that being color-blind is now a. illegal under disparate impact, and b. collectively suicidal?
631 The path you advocate leads nowhere but down into the darkness of the fringe.
-
Have you notice that race-based politics is not the fringe but the spine of the Democratic Party, the law of the land, and in the Constitution by virtue of Carolene Products Footnote Four if nothing else?
631 Further, the reason why skin color and ethnicity play such a large role in American politics is because dividing us into groups and setting those groups at each others' throats is how demagogues rule, not how free men govern.
-
Emphasis on how demagogues rule, as in Barack Obama, right now.
What you are pretending is radical and strange is mainstream political practice, only the mainstream political practice is constant anti-White racial politics.
I think that anti-White racial politics ought to be opposed. You should too.
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 15, 2012 06:32 PM (SWuYh)
If "it's his turn now" were an actual rule, the establishment wouldn't have gotten behind Poppy Bush in 1980 (it was Reagan's "turn"), and they would've supported Romney right off the bat this year rather than try to cajole Christie into running first.
Which brings me to my other point. The establishment does, to some extent, pick our candidate. What happens is, these power-brokers meet up in smoke-filled rooms with fancy cigars and snifters of brandy, and they decide between themselves on a candidate they can all unite behind.
Meanwhile, the grassroots typically split between several candidates; as these candidates drop out, some of their supporters go to the establishment pick, while others continue to split between other non-establishment candidates.
Think of the backroom wheeling and dealing as a pre-primary (premary?). These guys don't have more influence between them than all the grassroots types, but their united front is really hard to overcome unless we unite in a similar manner behind one candidate.
This happened in 1980. The grassroots united behind Reagan pretty quickly (building on his strong 1976 primary showing), and the establishment's pick, Bush, fell behind. The establishment, not wanting to be left out, cut a deal with Reagan; he agreed to take Bush on as his running mate for the sake of party unity, and the establishment grudgingly gave Reagan their blessing.
In 2000, the establishment got behind John McCain early on, but then he self-destructed, so they had no choice but to ditch him in favor of GWB, who was at least moderate enough for them to settle and had enough grassroots support to clinch the nomination outright with the establishment jumping on board.
In 2008, they again got behind McCain right off the bat, and he won because there wasn't anyone really exciting in the hunt that year. The grassroots sort of coalesced around Mitt Romney later on, but McCain already had a solid lead in the delegate count and colluded with Mike Huckabee to keep Romney from making a comeback.
In 2012, the establishment united behind Chris Christie, who wasn't even running. When they couldn't cajole him into throwing his huge hat in the ring, they settled for Romney. When Rick Perry jumped in, the grassroots quickly united behind him, making him the immediate front-runner. But then he self-destructed much like McCain had in 2000.
The GOP establishment is strong in its unity, but can be overcome by a determined and similarly unified grassroots effort. I'm not sure if there's anyone out there who could unite the grassroots in that way, but 2016 is a long way off.
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 06:37 PM (RLZvP)
On what record of victories is this idiot line of thinking based?
Posted by: Sgt. York at November 15, 2012 06:40 PM (yk8/j)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 06:42 PM (z4WKX)
You must have been a child at the time, or did you miss the fact he lost the popular vote the first time?
Did you miss the wars over No Child and Medicare Part D?
Seriously, your revisionist views is nowhere near reality.
Posted by: Sgt. York at November 15, 2012 06:43 PM (yk8/j)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 06:47 PM (i0vBR)
Did you guys hear someone say that?
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 06:49 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: troyriser at November 15, 2012 06:50 PM (ptcFO)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 06:55 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 06:56 PM (njVMI)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 07:01 PM (z4WKX)
No, he ran as a social conservative. Not the same thing. Socons aren't necessarily conservative at all.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 07:02 PM (Iyg03)
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 07:03 PM (RLZvP)
Posted by: Cornfed at November 15, 2012 07:06 PM (CyqAO)
Posted by: Hussein in the Membrane at November 15, 2012 07:16 PM (EX+sq)
"The last two Democratic presidents have both been kids from nowhere, not poor ... but driven to make something of themselves in the world. ... Some Republican presidents used to come from the same Jacksonian, bootstraps class ... but since Reagan the party has nominated a succession of blue bloods and millionaires... Three of the four of them lost presidential elections and promptly returned to their former lives; in effect, they had no skin in the game.
"In 2016, maybe a couple of guys with lean and hungry looks, who understand that a national election means a national campaign of principled ideas, and not just winning a few precincts in the Buckeye State, might be just the ticket."
http://www.nationalreview.com/blogs/print/333446Posted by: Erich Schwarz at November 15, 2012 07:18 PM (fu1qz)
Posted by: Erich Schwarz at November 15, 2012 07:19 PM (fu1qz)
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 07:19 PM (RLZvP)
-
He tried to conserve America. I think that's conservative.
What do you think of Karl Rove's policy to go along with importing a new Hispanic nation, by means of replacement-level immigration both legal and illegal (but blessed by amnesty), on the assumption that it is or will become Republican? Do you think that is conservative?
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 15, 2012 07:28 PM (SWuYh)
Posted by: troyriser at November 15, 2012 07:42 PM (ptcFO)
1. Attract more conservative voters
2. Recruit better conservative candidates (Santorum, Gingrich, really?)
3. Sell the rest of the party's electorate on the conservative candidates
Whine all you wish like some crazed fringe nutter about the "Establishment forcing X down our throats," but "they" have done NO SUCH THING. Our primary process is the most democratic in the world - even more democratic than the Democratic Party because the GOP reserves far fewer "Super Delegate" seats for party bosses and activists, elected officials, and special interest groups.
Every candidate starts out even. The problem is that since Reagan (and for the most part before him) the so-called "conservative" candidates have SUCKED ASS.
If your complaint is instead who gets support from big donors, tough. It's their money, who the hell do you think you are to tell them who to donate to? But Romney in particular built his own donor base until he had the nomination wrapped up, he wasn't a consensus pick of our big money men like, say, Dubya in 1999/2000. Neither did the others you mention, Bush the Elder, Dole, and McCain, attract the unanimity of the money men early UNTIL they had effectively wrapped up the nomination.
So, don't go blaming the Party because "conservative" candidates like Pat Buchanan, Phil Crane, Pete DuPont, Paul Laxalt, David Duke, Steve Forbes, Alan Keyes, Phil Gramm, Bob Dornan, Gary Bauer, Bob Smith, John Kasich, Herman Cain, Mike Huckabee, Fred Thompson, Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, Sam Brownback, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, Michelle Bachmann, and Thad McCotter just had no broad appeal in their own party.
Posted by: Adjoran at November 15, 2012 07:45 PM (ZHQvg)
Posted by: CarolT at November 15, 2012 07:46 PM (z4WKX)
Wow. I've tried reading mosts of the posts in this thread and have come to conclusion that 'The Elephant in the Room cannot herd all these cats'.
I've read strong and valid arguments going in all directions.
I think the most common theme is that this, today's Republican Party is a loser.
Hundreds of reasons and excuses have been offered. I won't even begin to attempt to parse them.
So, I think we should consider starting a third party that's not Democrat and not Republican.
I don't know what to call it. I don't know what it's platform should be exactly - other than Liberty and Freedom.
I reckon we could call it the "Unherdable Party" - UP.
Instead of a jackass or elephant, our mascot could be a hot air balloon, or a rocket, maybe an eagle.
My mind is boggled at all the arguing going on here about why we lost. So let's join the UP and then argue about how we won.
Posted by: currently at November 15, 2012 07:56 PM (flA6l)
The Republican Party must do better with Whites, immediately and in the long run, and the long run requires planning for Whites to have a future. Which should be fine, because a great way to get people to vote for you is to do stuff for them, and if it's useful political stuff it should lead to improved demographic prospects.
Doing better with Hispanics has been the agenda for many years. It doesn't work, so it can't be a top priority.
Increasing the White vote for the Republican Party is more practical in terms of numbers and for the long term in terms of a sustainable coalition. Where the two priorities conflict, boosting the White vote is more important.
I do not think that heavily unionized Northern Whites are going to vote in mighty numbers for the pure flame of conservative principles. I think they will vote for the said they see as acting in their interests. I think a "gift" or "gifts" of some kind will be needed. Goodies are needed.
The ability to compete for jobs one is qualified for without being hobbled by affirmative action, set-asides, quotas and disparate impact suits would be a valuable goodie. The suppression of competition from cheap illegal labor would be another goodie.
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 15, 2012 07:57 PM (SWuYh)
I think it's less likely for Perry, as he pissed off a lot of the same strongly principled people he'll be counting on later, while McCain pissed off the same people but had his support base elsewhere.
Still, Perry is an appealing possibility for '16.
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 08:02 PM (RLZvP)
-
Ace is making a valid point. It's just not the only point that needs to be made.
The Republican Party is in more trouble than it would be if only a more conservative Presidential candidate was needed.
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 15, 2012 08:04 PM (SWuYh)
"Are those Republican principles? Of course not. But the fact that Republicans like Karl Rove think they are sheds light on why we've been losing elections."
This. But I would disagree they aren't GOP principles, and this is what has finally occurred to me. What are the supposed GOP principles? Abe Lincoln shat on the Constitution. He went far beyond naked scanners. Since then it's pretty much been maintaining the status quo and learning how to abuse our newfound federal powers.
Republicans almost unanimously supported the Patriot Act, along with the bailouts and all these other non-Conservative laws you speak of. The problem is that GOP ISN'T CONSERVATIVE. It never has been. Conservative in the traditional sense of being strict small government, individual liberty Constitutionalists.
Posted by: Andrew at November 15, 2012 08:05 PM (neFIy)
Posted by: Andrew at November 15, 2012 08:08 PM (neFIy)
Posted by: Catseye at November 15, 2012 08:16 PM (c7wu3)
Part of this can be blamed on the catastrophic failure of ORCA; if it had worked as advertised, Romney would've won, if for no other reason, then because more Republicans would've been badgered into getting out to vote.
But it shouldn't have come down to that, with Obama losing so many votes from his '08 total. If we'd had a candidate who appealed more to conservatives, more of those Republicans who didn't vote would've been broken-glass voters like so many of us here were.
The problem is, too many rank-and-file grassroots types feel disenfranchised by the GOP now. The party refuses to deliver candidates who these people feel are really looking out for them, rather than just pandering a little and counting on anti-Democrat votes.
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 08:17 PM (RLZvP)
These districts were clearly redrawn with the specific purpose of getting rid of TEA Party incumbents.
With Orangina Boehner easily winning nomination to be Speaker again, I'm not sure whether it'd be better to try to clean up the GOP or start a new party at this point.
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 08:39 PM (RLZvP)
I seem to recall conservatives and Tea Party types like me saying over and over (and over) that we needed a candidate who actually believed in limited government and didn't have a history of using the Constitution as toilet paper. All we heard back from the establishment was "ignore Romneycare and all the other stuff that makes Romney look like a democrat" and "he's moderate and electable".
Obviously Romney was a squish too far for many people and, as it turns out, he was not very electable because of that.
Posted by: Amy at November 15, 2012 08:42 PM (NpRlM)
As far as Romney vs McCain vs Dubya, I'd say they were all pretty close on the ideological scale, almost of it was simply timing.
I don't believe for a minute GOP voters sat out because they felt Romney was insufficiently conservative. And if they did, we need a new coalition of ADULTS in our movement.
We would have lost an epic landslide if we had nominated someone like Santorum or Newt, instead we lost by a couple points. Had a few small things broken our way (no Sandy, no Akin) I think Romney would have won.
When it coms to real life anecdotes, the people I know that are abandoning the GOP is almost exclusively over social/religious issues. I've yet to hear someone say they sat out the election because the GOp candidate didn't make abortion a bigger issue.
Posted by: Jeepers at November 15, 2012 08:52 PM (XDRsa)
Did 68% of Republicans sit at home because Romney was just right?
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 09:05 PM (RLZvP)
Posted by: Sexypig at November 15, 2012 09:14 PM (NfAQ+)
Posted by: Sexypig at November 15, 2012 09:18 PM (NfAQ+)
How many of those independents would've voted for Obama instead, and how many would've just stayed home?
And then there's the question of how many Democrats would've turned out.
Personally, I think the higher Republican turnout would've been enough to make the difference.
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 09:18 PM (RLZvP)
The establishment republicans in VA made sure primary voters here only had a choice of Romney or Ron Paul. They changed the rules about how many signatures had to be turned in before the the signature threshold had been deemed to have been met ( Republican party of Virginia decided in November of 2011 to increase the threshold for automatic certification from 10K to 15K... the signatures were due in December, 2011), to get candidates on the ballot without, ya know, telling the candidates in a timely fashion (except, I am assuming, Romney). They then decided that you had to have Since Ron Paul is ummm an acquired taste, Romney won handily (I voted for Paul in protest). Write in candidates are not allowed on primary ballots in Virginia.
The Virginia GOP also tried to have signing a loyalty oath (that you would vote for the GOP candidate in the general election) as a condition of being able to vote in the primaries at all. They only backed off because they came up with the loyalty oath within 60 days of the primary and state law does not allow rule changes that close to an election.
Posted by: Amy at November 15, 2012 09:30 PM (NpRlM)
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 09:31 PM (RLZvP)
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 09:37 PM (RLZvP)
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 09:39 PM (RLZvP)
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 09:43 PM (RLZvP)
Where could he have gotten more votes and possibly won? From Republicans. Did I mention that 32% of Republicans went out to vote? 50% Republican turnout would've made up for a whole lot of independent votes lost for our candidate being too conservative for them.
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler (@ProthonotaryW) at November 15, 2012 10:03 PM (RLZvP)
You bastards can just yap and yap.
I say shut the fuck up and come up with a plan.
What a bunch of whiny ass bastards.
This thread is hopeless.
Posted by: currently at November 15, 2012 11:20 PM (flA6l)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 11:43 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 11:48 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2012 11:59 PM (i0vBR)
Posted by: Joel Leggett at November 16, 2012 01:05 AM (ChqG2)
Posted by: deadrody at November 16, 2012 01:43 AM (DkAJe)
Posted by: FiCons at November 16, 2012 02:11 AM (v4f8Q)
To win the White vote by a bigger margin is do-able, though the challenge is then to change the policies that are driving Whites down as a share of the population. So go after that White vote, by addressing issues like mass immigration, affirmative action, quotas, set-asides, disparate impact and so on. Make it so that if you're White you'd be stupid not to vote Republican even if you are in a union and you like your union, because only the Republican Party addresses Whites as a community like any other community that's accepted as legitimate and entitled to its share of the spoils, such as the Black community. Accept that ethnic politics is now the main game, and play to win within democratic norms.
I get called nasty names for saying that, but my plan, which is not original with me, is logical.
Alternative plans, which ignore the effectiveness of Democratic vote factories, the strength and persistence of the Democratic anti-White coalition, and the reality that already-existing laws (governing legal mass immigration among other things) give the Democratic coalition victory by default, do not add up.
The Republican Party, as it is presently constituted, is becoming outmatched due to policy-driven demographic changes. Unless it changes it will become helpless.
After you decide your plan you can talk about leadership. An attractive speaker who is unwilling to pursue the one plan that offers long term hope is irrelevant.
Posted by: The Lightworker at November 16, 2012 02:14 AM (fT6Tl)
Repeal No Child Left Behind. Push to eliminate educational bureaucrats instead of scapegoating teachers.
Get the feds the hell out of public education.
The GOP was on the right track when they started out simply offering charter schools as an alternative to public schools. Then, they had to go FULL ON, big government, test everything that moves, stupid.
Axe NCLB, and I'll vote Republican again. I couldn't stomach voting for the guy who created ObamaCare and endorsed NCLB as a "good law."
Posted by: stickety at November 16, 2012 02:19 AM (+Vm+w)
-----
This election, and 2008, were lost when the Republicans let the media intimidate them from taking huge swaths of Obama off the table for discussion, Rev. Wright being but one of several examples. Neither McCain nor Romney recognized that when you're competing with Chicago Alinsky thugs, Marquis of Queensbury rules will only leave you doing post-defeat introspection and the thugs doing inaugural planning. As a result, we lost the country.
Posted by: McGuire at November 16, 2012 03:50 AM (u3N3z)
An issue that was never put squarely in front of the American people are the hundreds of affirmative actions programs, set asides and outright quotas mandated in Obamacare. Imagine what all those white union guys in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania might have thought about THAT.
Unilateral disarmament is a certain reciple for losing anything.
Posted by: Atwater's ghost at November 16, 2012 03:58 AM (u3N3z)
Posted by: Infidelswine at November 16, 2012 04:15 AM (4U7Da)
It seems to me one of big reasons he lost is because Obama fed the moochers. Then gave them a reason to vote.
Romney articulated some core conservative principles as a centerpiece of his platform; less government, fiscal responsibility, personal responsibility, capitalism, etc. and got trounced. He was certainly more "conservative" than McCain. How did that work out?
Republicans? Well it sure seems a lot of them sat home.
The elephant in the room is that many Republican voters, the ones that don't show up regularly to actually vote, are lazy, apathetic and unmotivated. Some are also childish, single issue voters that won't show up unless a candidate promises to wash their car and buy them a steak- metaphorically speaking of course.
Look at the number of registered voters and turnout. This election continues the trend of less people showing up on Election Day.
Romney lost by about 400,000 votes. That's 3.5 Michigan home games.
It's not wholly just about conservatism. It's about articulation and consistency. I am not certain what the electoral answer is. But I know the aforementioned is the problem.
Posted by: marcus at November 16, 2012 05:06 AM (CNEa6)
They won the popular vote four times: '92, 96, '08, and '12.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 16, 2012 05:55 AM (Iyg03)
The quote was that the establishment conservatives have done that.
--out Democrat the Democrats: No Child Left Behind
--out-bit the Democrats for votes: Medicare Part D
But fine, Romney? Remember those pictures I used to put up of him wearing a corn hat? Remember why I did that? Ethanol.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 16, 2012 06:00 AM (Iyg03)
Wrong. Those are all Obama. IIRC, they were introduced after his Administration chose to do it. You have any different information?
Posted by: Greg Q at November 16, 2012 09:00 AM (4Pleu)
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 16, 2012 09:17 AM (Iyg03)
Posted by: Infidelswine at November 16, 2012 09:35 AM (4U7Da)
Since nobody is going to actually do anything about getting rid of Red State democratic senators - I say let it all burn to the ground.
Posted by: An Observation at November 16, 2012 09:57 AM (ylhEn)
Posted by: In the bunker at November 16, 2012 12:02 PM (R7H3g)
Posted by: Rock at November 16, 2012 05:08 PM (nPei1)
I can't control whether you're going to be able to look directly at the facts, Rock. All I can do is present them to you.
Rock argument: "Well, Reagan started out as a Democrat." So, Rock. Really? Do you feel like you've refuted something there?
Taxes went from a top marginal rate of around 70% under Carter to a little over 28% with Reagan. We had the boom. The fact the taxes might have moved a little during that time does not make Reagan some kind of moderate, dummy.
>>>What is even more pathetic are the apparently many "conservatives" who didn't come out to vote.
Yeah, as I was saying, running a real constitutional conservative will bring out the base.
Posted by: rdbrewer at November 16, 2012 06:00 PM (Iyg03)
Doubling down nowadays seems to mean a candidate that receives blowback on a meme, but digs in unexpectedly when it seems he should soften his position. Doubling down in Blackjack actually means when a dealers up card reveals the dealer has a disadvantageous hand and your cards are a good deal and highly likely to win, you take this updated intel on your increased advantage and you are given the opportunity to place a second bet on the table to win bigger. In other words, you are "hitting your opponent when he is down".
This is the idea on Senators. We are searching for places to dig out of holes based on concern troll advice from the left wing media like "Why not go after black voters? They voted 100% against you in some precincts". Many Republicans are chasing that rabbit in to the weeds. I'm not saying we give up on that, but prioritize here, please. Let's "Double Down". Let's focus on situations where the Dems have a bad hand and we have a good hand and pile more resources on that good bet.
Senator Cornyn who led the Senate Election effort should bear some of the responsibility for 2012, but putting Ted Cruz and Portman on the commitee is a good start.
Posted by: TJ King at November 17, 2012 02:06 PM (bTARb)
Posted by: Theworminator at November 17, 2012 02:12 PM (nbSck)
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Posted by: Paul at November 15, 2012 03:04 PM (g4Saz)