Ace of Spades HQ

January 12, 2012

NASA Working on Cold Fission?
— Ace

LENR, or Low Energy Nuclear Reaction power.

Actually the question mark is unwarranted -- NASA is working on LENR, as this video indicates.

My question is more "Is this for real? Or is this a pipe dream?"

Oh, by the way, if Global Warming ever becomes a real problem, rather than something that megarich fat-assed white people fret about because they have no genuine problems, we can always seed the atmosphere with molecules that spur cloud formation, and reflect sunlight away.

You know -- like the Sun already does, thus accounting for our 11-year solar cycle of warmth and cooling.

Thanks to Classical Values.

So that's Hot and Cold. And hot:

Don't Believe The Hype: Uriah Heep says of course a government agency with lots of funding would check out a low-likelihood, high-probability claim.

Most likely a pipe-dream. The recent increase in noise has been from some Italian guy (Andrea Rossi) who claims to be over unity using some oddly garage looking device wrapped in aluminum foil along with some magic nickle powder. The Italian claims his E-Cat device is being produced (yet nobody in the mainstream media's gotten/picked up on it?) and working in a Greek power station/factory. So either he's found the holy grail without understanding the physics behind it, or there's something a little smelly in Greece and it's not just #OWS's 2nd cousins.
Most labs have been unable to replicate any findings, nor have the government agencies found reason to continue funding.
That said, there have always been small programs funded for low-cost, low-probability, high-impact research. For instance, The Navy has been funding the former Dr. Brussard's IEC hot-plasma fusion technique for quite some time although mainstream high-energy physics disavows it. I believe SPAWAR and NASA are two such examples funding the cold-variety.

Posted by: Ace at 11:21 AM | Comments (96)
Post contains 307 words, total size 2 kb.

1 That's "fusion" ace. They already have all kinds of power sources that work from fission.

Posted by: Vic at January 12, 2012 11:23 AM (YdQQY)

2 Cold Fission? Isn't it Cold Fusion that is the holy grail?

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2012 11:23 AM (lU2av)

3 Didn't we give France millions to build one of these?

Posted by: Cajun Carrot at January 12, 2012 11:23 AM (zHl9z)

4 And is it a pipe dream. Yes, it doesn't advance our understanding with the Arab street.

Posted by: Vic at January 12, 2012 11:23 AM (YdQQY)

5 the question is will working on LENR interfere with NASA's primary job of Islamic outreach?

Posted by: bannor, voting for NotRomney at January 12, 2012 11:25 AM (6AXh/)

6 Fission is blasting an atom to smithereens. Fusion is combining two Hydrogen atoms to make one Helium atom which releases energy cleanly.

I think.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2012 11:25 AM (lU2av)

7
Do they chill it with ice cubes? Like a cocktail?

Posted by: Dr. Varno at January 12, 2012 11:26 AM (QMtmy)

8
LENR SKYNYRD

Posted by: Dr. Varno at January 12, 2012 11:28 AM (QMtmy)

9 There's been a lot of fusion fraud in the news lately. The whole Rossi stuff, for example.

NASA and Darpa have thrown a lot of money at frauds and cranks in the past, so their involvement doesn't necessarily mean it's legit. Throwing a few bucks at something that is 99% likely bogus, but 1% potential game-breaker is defensible.

Posted by: Joke Police at January 12, 2012 11:28 AM (QcFbt)

10 It's called ice fishing. Geez!

Posted by: Flounder at January 12, 2012 11:28 AM (Kkt/i)

11 1 That's "fusion" ace. They already have all kinds of power sources that work from fission.
Posted by: Vic at January 12, 2012 03:23 PM

NASA is working on Confusion. There, how do YOU like being corrected Mister Ace Smarty Pans!

Posted by: Meghan McCain at January 12, 2012 11:29 AM (Y+DPZ)

12 Hear that? It's the sound of millions of dirty hippies vowing to kill any new energy technology.

Posted by: sifty at January 12, 2012 11:29 AM (WsOiK)

13 6 Fission is blasting an atom to smithereens. Fusion is combining two Hydrogen atoms to make one Helium atom which releases energy cleanly.

I think.
Posted by: eleven

I'm talking to a physicist right now....you're close. The sun fuses hydrogen all the time.

Posted by: MPFS at January 12, 2012 11:29 AM (iYbLN)

14 It's just something else NASA will fake.

Posted by: Dr Spank at January 12, 2012 11:29 AM (Sh42X)

15 That's "fusion" ace. They already have all kinds of power sources that work from fission. Posted by: Vic

Oh come on, Vic. How's Ace supposed to know something like that. It's not like it's written at the top of the page linked, in the article linked, in the video linked, and in the URL.

Geez, some picky folk here.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 12, 2012 11:29 AM (7E1Ic)

16 6 Fission is blasting an atom to smithereens. Fusion is combining two Hydrogen atoms to make one Helium atom which releases energy cleanly.

I think.
Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2012 03:25 PM

Who was that enterprising young man, Smithereens?

Posted by: Montgomery Burns at January 12, 2012 11:30 AM (Y+DPZ)

I thought vinegar stopped global warming

Posted by: Ben at January 12, 2012 11:30 AM (wuv1c)

18 Cold fission is what they do in Minnesota in those little huts.

Posted by: t-bird at January 12, 2012 11:30 AM (FcR7P)

19 Color me skeptical. But then, I'm usually skeptical. And grouchy. Can't forget grouchy.

Oh, and colored skeptics are racist.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 12, 2012 11:30 AM (BhuDE)

20 Mitt Romney and his wife engage in cold fusion once a week.

Posted by: Dr Spank at January 12, 2012 11:32 AM (Sh42X)

21 Oh come on, Vic. How's Ace supposed to know something like that. It's not like it's written at the top of the page linked, in the article linked, in the video linked, and in the URL.

Geez, some picky folk here.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 12, 2012 03:29 PM

It doesn't have cultured relevance to my generator either !!!

Posted by: Meghan McCain at January 12, 2012 11:32 AM (Y+DPZ)

22 A webpage at coldfusion.com and a video by FreeEnergyTruth, my BS detector is deep into the yellow.

Posted by: Bob Saget at January 12, 2012 11:32 AM (SDkq3)

23 Time to make a cheesy 80s movie called "L.E.N.R.D." (get it, Leonard?) about a teen android powered by LENR. Make it a sequel to D.A.R.Y.L.

Posted by: wooga at January 12, 2012 11:33 AM (vjyZP)

24 The Navy is funding a fusion project that has some promise. You sci-fi fans may remember the name Bussard (as in Bussard Ram Jet, etc..) Well, he was working on a fairly small-scale Polywell Fusion reactor before he died a few years ago. The Navy picked up the funding and news from these folks has clammed up.

http://tinyurl.com/7j4qptm

But, cold fusion? sounds fishy..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 12, 2012 11:33 AM (f9c2L)

25
I don't think NASA could build a go-kart.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 12, 2012 11:33 AM (sqkOB)

26 Looks to me that it's just one crank who conned NASA into some research funding.

There's about as much chance that it'll come to fruition as Anthony Wiener being the GOP nominee this year.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 12, 2012 11:33 AM (SY2Kh)

27 Call me when Dr. McKay can replicate the ZPEs. Without blowing up the solar system this time, please.

Posted by: DarkLord©, Rogue Commenter at January 12, 2012 11:34 AM (GBXon)

28 I've got 'cold fusion' in my pants, IYKWIMAITYD

Posted by: Aldo Moro at January 12, 2012 11:34 AM (UqKQV)

29 The reaction the video is touting doesn't sound like fusion or fission. In fact, it doesn't even sound energy-positive. More like using energy to set up a reaction, then collect energy from it, making it more of a delivery mechanism. But I may be wrong. It's awfully light on details.

Posted by: JoeInMD at January 12, 2012 11:34 AM (Xwgt3)

30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Osu4zew6pU

Posted by: penny at January 12, 2012 11:34 AM (nWkE2)

31 When I started here, I didn't even know what a nucular panter pant was!"

Posted by: Homer "ace" Simpson, in Sector 7G at January 12, 2012 11:34 AM (vjyZP)

32 Hot, sweaty fusion with Katy Perry is what I'm holding out for.

Posted by: t-bird at January 12, 2012 11:34 AM (FcR7P)

33 "We found the biradicals could oxidise sulfur dioxide, which eventually turns into sulphuric acid, which has a known cooling effect,"

Yes. Please, Let's put more sulphuric acid into the atmosphere. Nothing bad could happen here...

Posted by: taylork, on his new computer gotten from last nights riot at January 12, 2012 11:35 AM (5wsU9)

34 32 Hot, sweaty fusion with Katy Perry is what I'm holding out for.

Posted by: t-bird at January 12, 2012 03:34 PM (FcR7P)

Radioactive contamination.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at January 12, 2012 11:35 AM (kUd5w)

35 Yeah, right, the E-CAT heat pump, shipping to US homes for $1,500? A cold fusion heat pump?

Come. On. Quit pulling my leg.

Posted by: Jay in Ames at January 12, 2012 11:35 AM (UEEex)

36 22 A webpage at coldfusion.com and a video by FreeEnergyTruth, my BS detector is deep into the yellow.
Posted by: Bob Saget at January 12, 2012 03:32 PM

Whenever I see literature about Cold Fusion, it always seems to be accompanied by Ron Paul paraphernalia

Coincidence?

Posted by: kbdabear at January 12, 2012 11:36 AM (Y+DPZ)

37 'Cold fission'? What the fuck is that?! Never mind, here's half a billion dollars...

Posted by: DOE at January 12, 2012 11:36 AM (FcR7P)

38 It looks to me like someone labeled some kind of fuel cell video as "Cold Fusion".

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 12, 2012 11:37 AM (f9c2L)

39 Meh ... when they want to talk warp drives, let me know

Posted by: Zefram Cochrane at January 12, 2012 11:37 AM (Y+DPZ)

40 Radioactive contamination. Posted by: Kinley Ardal I didn't say it was a clean process.

Posted by: t-bird at January 12, 2012 11:38 AM (FcR7P)

41 I know a bit about surface plasmons polaritons, but from this I can understand absolutely nothing about the process. I don't understand the article. There's this from the article, though.

Another possibility is that President Obama is keeping the device under wraps and planning to publicly unveil it during the Presidential campaign this fall. That would certainly get him a few votes. This is highly probably because it would justify his green energy technology agenda which has received a lot of criticism in recent months.

Either way it looks like the LENR deniers are going to have to change their tunes and eat their words. It also looks like this revolutionary energy source has high level support in Washington.

Wait, maybe I do understand.

Posted by: pep at January 12, 2012 11:38 AM (YXmuI)

42
Meh -- I already did it in my kitchen using an old Skippy peanut butter jar. That's the secret. It won't work if you use a store brand jar.

Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at January 12, 2012 11:38 AM (7+pP9)

43 37 'Cold fission'? What the fuck is that?! Never mind, here's half a billion dollars Mr. Obama bundler.

Posted by: DOE at January 12, 2012 03:36 PM (FcR7P)

Fixed.

Posted by: Flounder at January 12, 2012 11:38 AM (Kkt/i)

There was a great article in, of all things, Rolling Stone Magazine...

Called 'Dr. Evil saves the World'.

An old Cold War Scientist, postulated we could just build Large Factories which spewed particulate matter into the atmosphere over the poles, where no one lives, and control the Earths temperature that way (at least to lower it).

Key question now is, is it time to start thinking about putting MORE Real Global warming gasses (CO2 is already saturated) into the atmosphere to fight the coming Ice Age?

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 12, 2012 11:39 AM (NtXW4)

Posted by: pep at January 12, 2012 03:38 PM (YXmuI)

Hmmm... Movie Plot?

Oh.. wait... The Saint... its been done...

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 12, 2012 11:40 AM (NtXW4)

46 Rest assured, if it does somehow turn out to work the environmentalists will make sure to kill it.

Posted by: Reactionary at January 12, 2012 11:40 AM (xUM1Q)

47 hey even I know it's cold fusion..when that bunch in Utah announced they'd discovered it, circa 1986, I was watching TV with my dad and he says "pah, it's the perpetual motion machine again.."

Posted by: jeanne! with two N's and an E at January 12, 2012 11:40 AM (GdalM)

48 Cold Fission is what they do on the lakes of Wisconsin during the winter months.. That, and drink beer.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 12, 2012 11:41 AM (f9c2L)

49
Cold Fusion my sweaty buttocks. Never happen.

I have just one word for you: Magnet motors.

Posted by: Howard Johnson at January 12, 2012 11:41 AM (XCHGh)

50 Wow, that video sure explained things. "We just add neutrons!".

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 12, 2012 11:42 AM (q8xaf)

51 Are you guys almost done with that fusion thing? The Chinese and Iranians are driving me nuts asking when it'll be ready to hand it over.

Damn lazy assed Americans!

Posted by: King Barry the Nobel Peace Prize Winner at January 12, 2012 11:42 AM (Y+DPZ)

Posted by: Romeo13 at January 12, 2012 03:39 PM (NtXW4)

Pfft. Yet more meddling with a system nobody really understands. One that will blacken the ice caps. Great.

Whatever is done, if anything, rest assured that it will not matter to the Libtards - they're just in this for a payday. Whether the carbon tax pays for reduction in gas emissions or increase in particulate emissions, the Al Gores of the world will be skimming a profit from it.

Posted by: Reactionary at January 12, 2012 11:43 AM (xUM1Q)

53 You can tell they had the Auto-Tune cranked up to 11 on that Katy song!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 12, 2012 11:43 AM (f9c2L)

54
Yes, but will it work with my Solyndra panels?

Posted by: Wodeshed at January 12, 2012 11:43 AM (SgLsM)

55 >>>That's "fusion" ace. They already have all kinds of power sources that work from fission. Doesn't look like fusion to me, as nothing fuses. It does, however, decay into an element and some neutrons, which is closer to fission.

Posted by: ace at January 12, 2012 11:43 AM (nj1bB)

56 Oh, by the way, if Global Warming ever becomes a real problem, rather than something that megarich fat-assed white people fret about because they have no genuine problems, we could use Iran to have a "Small Nuclear War Could Reverse Global Warming for Years" or at least that is what National Geographic tells me.

Posted by: Michael Mills at January 12, 2012 11:44 AM (e8kgV)

57 "We found the biradicals could oxidise sulfur dioxide, which eventually turns into sulphuric acid, which has a known cooling effect,"

We used to have buildings that would do that for free. Called "factories." As a bonus, they used to pay people to go in there and make the particles every day.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 12, 2012 11:44 AM (/kI1Q)

58 There are serious people working on cold fusion, but how SPPs are involved eludes me. Regardless, it won't be the panacea it was originally thought to be. Pons and Fleischmann jumped the gun by "publishing" in the media because they were afraid of being scooped on a surefire Nobel, in both the prize and economic senses. Pity, they were both excellent scientists.

Posted by: pep at January 12, 2012 11:44 AM (YXmuI)

59 Sorry, but Perry doesn't stimulate my economy.

Posted by: JoeInMD at January 12, 2012 11:44 AM (Xwgt3)

60 Cold Fission is what they do on the lakes of Wisconsin during the winter months.. That, and drink beer Schnapps.

FIFY

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 12, 2012 11:44 AM (tf9Ne)

61 There will always be free energy cranks.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at January 12, 2012 11:44 AM (QcFbt)

62
Capricorn Two: The Coldening

Posted by: Dr. Varno at January 12, 2012 11:45 AM (QMtmy)

63 I have just one word for you: Magnet motors.
Posted by: Howard Johnson at January 12, 2012 03:41 PM

Howard Johnson is RIGHT !!!

Posted by: Olson Johnson at January 12, 2012 11:46 AM (Y+DPZ)

64 50 Wow, that video sure explained things. "We just add neutrons!".

Yeah, it's about as informative as the headache commercials that show the tablet moving to a throbbing blob on a human outline, followed by the blob disappearing. See, it's science!

Posted by: pep at January 12, 2012 11:46 AM (YXmuI)

65 FIFY
Posted by: Buzzsaw
.......
Actually, shouldn't it be Brandy Manhattans?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at January 12, 2012 11:46 AM (f9c2L)

66 My question is more "Is this for real? Or is this a pipe dream?"

Most likely a pipe-dream. The recent increase in noise has been from some Italian guy (Andrea Rossi) who claims to be over unity using some oddly garage looking device wrapped in aluminum foil along with some magic nickle powder. The Italian claims his E-Cat device is being produced (yet nobody in the mainstream media's gotten/picked up on it?) and working in a Greek power station/factory. So either he's found the holy grail without understanding the physics behind it, or there's something a little smelly in Greece and it's not just #OWS's 2nd cousins.

Most labs have been unable to replicate any findings, nor have the government agencies found reason to continue funding.

That said, there have always been small programs funded for low-cost, low-probability, high-impact research. For instance, The Navy has been funding the former Dr. Brussard's IEC hot-plasma fusion technique for quite some time although mainstream high-energy physics disavows it. I believe SPAWAR and NASA are two such examples funding the cold-variety.

Probability of influencing the 2012 race? 0-2%

There just isn't enough to substantiate any growing body of positive research data that would accompany such a discovery or maturing of technology. No high-impact publications, no independent confirmation, no leakage or rumors, not even talk of venture (err...vulture) capital interest. etc.

Posted by: Uriah Heep at January 12, 2012 11:46 AM (447Af)

67 There will always be free energy cranks.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at January 12, 2012 03:44 PM (QcFbt)

Zero point energy!!!1!!1!!

Posted by: George Noory at January 12, 2012 11:47 AM (+ePlO)

68 Yes. Please, Let's put more sulphuric acid into the atmosphere. Nothing bad could happen here...

Read the whole thing. They're talking about naturally occurring SO₂

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 12, 2012 11:47 AM (SY2Kh)

69
I'm pretty sure this would involve putting logs in a fireplace, and adding some sort of catalyst to begin the combustion process.

Posted by: Wodeshed at January 12, 2012 11:47 AM (SgLsM)

70 *cough*ullshit.

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at January 12, 2012 11:47 AM (w41GQ)

71 "Metal Hydride Systems", that sounds like batteries or fuel cells to me. Where are we getting all that metal from, China, and where's it going when we're done with it. This could be the first company to land a quadruple-Solyndra.

Posted by: t-bird at January 12, 2012 11:48 AM (FcR7P)

72 49 Heh.
How's that free energy coming along?

Posted by: fb at January 12, 2012 11:48 AM (JVEmw)

73 Republican Deniers Are Against Free, Clean, and Perpetual Energy!

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 12, 2012 11:49 AM (FcR7P)

74 Sorry, but Perry doesn't stimulate my economy.

Katy Perry has stimulated ours.

Posted by: Jergins hand lotion division at January 12, 2012 11:49 AM (SY2Kh)

75 Actually, shouldn't it be Brandy Manhattans?

Maybe in one of those fancy houses but for real men who sit on a 5gal pail it's schnapps.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 12, 2012 11:49 AM (tf9Ne)

76 I don't see a problem here.

Posted by: Dr. Emmett Brown at January 12, 2012 11:50 AM (GBXon)

Zero point energy!!!1!!1!!

Posted by: George Noory at January 12, 2012 03:47 PM (+ePlO)

Sucks....

Posted by: Mr. Incredible at January 12, 2012 11:53 AM (NtXW4)

78 77

Zero point energy!!!1!!1!!

Posted by: George Noory at January 12, 2012 03:47 PM (+ePlO)

Sucks....

Posted by: Mr. Incredible at January 12, 2012 03:53 PM (NtXW4)

and no CAPES!

Posted by: Edna at January 12, 2012 11:54 AM (NtXW4)

79
gone fission

Posted by: Dr. Varno at January 12, 2012 11:56 AM (QMtmy)

80 And yes Virginia, Katy Perry is hot. And if you're nice, she'll make out with you.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at January 12, 2012 11:58 AM (jx2j9)

81 They will probably claim they are taking advantage of vacuum energy: (wiki)

However, in both Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) and Stochastic Electrodynamics (SED), consistency with the principle of Lorentz covariance and with the magnitude of the Planck Constant requires it to have a much larger value of 10¹¹³ Joules per cubic meter.[2][3]

The existence of vacuum energy is also sometimes used as theoretical justification for the possibility of free energy machines. It has been argued that due to the broken symmetry (in QED), free energy does not violate conservation of energy,...

Note that 10¹¹³ joules is a LOT of energy. One cc of vacuum contains enough energy to boil all the Earth's oceans per these theories. Sounds like someone broke their slide ruler to me.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 12, 2012 12:02 PM (BhuDE)

82 My former boss was at Davis getting his PhD in physics in the 70s and he told me that a lot of these guys with the crazy ideas would drop acid and then think they could see the "future." The shit fried their brains for science.

Posted by: mpfs at January 12, 2012 12:04 PM (iYbLN)

83 81 They will probably claim they are taking advantage of vacuum energy: (wiki)

Yeah but can this vacuum you speak of have enough power to pick up dog hair in the carpet???

Posted by: mpfs at January 12, 2012 12:06 PM (iYbLN)

84 80 And yes Virginia, Katy Perry is hot. And if you're nice, she'll make out with you. Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at January 12, 2012 03:58 PM (jx2j9) No she's not. She just has nice big titties and it makes you THINK she's hot. Cover up the titties and she's a month's worth of Twinkies away from Rosie O'Donnell.

Posted by: wooga at January 12, 2012 12:06 PM (vjyZP)

85
Posted by: fb at January 12, 2012 03:48 PM (JVEmw)

Nice to see that someone picked up on that. A buddy of mine keeps screaming about how it works, and that I'm an idiot for my doubting......but he never gets around to paying the $89.95 for the plans. Hmmmm.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 12, 2012 12:15 PM (XCHGh)

86 There's no reason LENR can't work. Although it's unlikely they have the answer. Still, if NASA pulls off something like that, they can have their pork for another few decades. They'd deserve it.

Posted by: GergS at January 12, 2012 12:18 PM (dptRY)

87 Anyhoo, this is the one I'm betting on for net fusion: http://focusfusion.org/

Posted by: GergS at January 12, 2012 12:21 PM (dptRY)

88 I studied fusion and plasmas in general my senior year in engineering. It is pretty simple to tell that these cold fusion claims are bogus. The reason being that if they really achieved fusion with the apparatus they claim to be using they would be dead from absorbing the high energy particles that are produced in the reaction.

It's a bit more complicated than that but basically if they are able to talk about it then they didn't do it.

I am not an expert by any means since our tokamak was mothballed by the time I came along and I never took any graduate courses but there are still only a couple of methods that look promising for achieving fusion in usable reactors. The magnetic confinement method has the advantage of being easier to get power out of. The other method uses pellets and high powered lasers which can produce some impressive results --- but--- it is much more difficult to see how it would lead to a commercial reactor.

Either method is basically an extremely hard engineering project that would take massive amounts of time and resources to get where we need to be. It is not a sure thing due to the plasma instabilities but we could probably get something to work if we had a massive program like we did for the atomic bomb or moon shots. But whether we do it incrementally or all at once with a massive push I think it will eventually have to be done. There aren't a lot of good alternatives once you get a few more centuries down the road.

Posted by: Voluble at January 12, 2012 12:36 PM (JKX4x)

Polywell Fusion is very interesting theoretically

if i understand there is a break even point for energy output based on size.

the unit must be at least a certain size to produce more energy than it takes in.

there appears to be an upper limit based on the surviability of the materials invloved

hope it works out

Posted by: leperous at January 12, 2012 12:48 PM (Q6qGS)

90 Yeah cold fusion is a pipe dream. Those two idiots who scammed the world from Korea 20 years ago are good examples.

They are still nowhere NEAR being able to use good old fashioned 'hot' fusion for energy yet. Its still in the theory/small room at cal-tech stage.. STILL. I remember near 20 years ago in school reading about how fusion power plants were just a few years away. right.

Cold fusion? Yeah... not so much. For gov't funding, scientists will make anything seem possible to get free money grants at our expense. One thing with our debt that needs to be reformed is the grant system. Giving scientists huge grants so they can play at their favorite hobby for 40 years is ridiculous. If we could count the money thats been wasted in the last 10 years alone from ridiculous grants, especially those involving global warming.. (which always get approved, especially since its the political shitznit), those grants would probably amount to more than 5 Trillion or more. And for what? Not much has changed in 20 years.. including in medicine. We're still using machines that came out 20 years ago in medicine, except for the shiny new MRI machine they got from overcharging and upcoding white patients. oops did I say that? yep I did.

Posted by: Total Asshole at January 12, 2012 12:58 PM (bcmD0)

91 Voluble, 4:36:

"The reason being that if they really achieved fusion with the apparatus they claim to be using they would be dead from absorbing the high energy particles that are produced in the reaction."

Yep. But if you point that out, the true believers will tell you that's only true of hot fusion. Cold fusion doesn't produce all those neutrons, for example, so Pons and Fleischmann wouldn't necessarily have died in agony within days.

That's the problem I have: It's unfalsifiable. Cold fusion really works like all hell but they don't want you to know about it. I love that. The oil companies are suppressing it - as if there weren't a hell of a lot more money to be made by jumping all over this and cornering the market. Or the Jooos (TM) are covering it up (as if they wouldn't love to dry up the chief unearned-income source for much of the Arab world) - one of the scientists who first cast a critical look at the Pons and Fleischmann results got a ton of anti-Semitic hate mail.

The line between the energy dreamers and the conspiracy nuts gets awfully thin sometimes, as I have learned to my sorrow when pointing out that no, a car that seemingly runs off water is actually running off the battery in a Rube Goldberg sort of way.

Posted by: JPS at January 12, 2012 01:10 PM (NZOxN)

92 Ace, I thought the term was "cold FUSION" not "fission." Different processes.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at January 12, 2012 02:17 PM (t3mKS)

93 Well, it's not like NASA has rockets, or manned missions to concern themselves with anymore. Might as well dabble in half-baked free energy scams, Toyota accelerator issues, (Yes, they did), and generally piss off as much taxpayer cash as they can.

Posted by: DngrMse at January 12, 2012 02:25 PM (hFGXE)

It's still a long shot, but maybe not a pipe dream. Rossi's tests haven't been marvels of perfectly construction, but even so it would have been very very difficult to have faked what he's demonstrated so far.

There is a growing list of LENR results: http://www.22passi.it/downloads/WSEC2012%20Present.pdf

So, again, skepticism warranted, but increasingly interesting. Don't invest, but do keep an eye out!

Posted by: TallDave at January 13, 2012 03:22 AM (NafRU)

Uriah -- actually Rossi has been featured on Wired, so it has been reported in mainstream media.

Pixy ate my longer response, but oh well.

Posted by: TallDave at January 13, 2012 03:35 AM (NafRU)

96 Rossi could be less credible - if he communicated via Nigerian e-mails. The only thing that gives me any hope there may be something there is the number of Names who are willing to be associated with him... and God knows, even Names can be damnfools.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at January 13, 2012 11:24 AM (2VCZA)

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