1 They haven't folded yet. Just talk, so far.

2 here's an idea: call your rep call every rep write letters do something, anything

3 Let it burn

4 None of it means anything without voter ID. In fact, several will fall in line with it.

5 If they fold on immigration, it will be the end of the Republican party. They are really overreacting with the narrow loss on Tuesday. We had a reverse 2004. And we know how that turned out in 2006-2008.

6 I don't want to give-up any on the list. If the GOP morphs into some sort of Democrat why support them?

7 None of it will matter anyway. Economy will suck, Healthcare ruined, more radical SCOTUS picks. Stick a fork in it.

8 Nothing is going to "burn." We are talking a long, slow decline.

9 Tough one for me between Taxes and gun control. I think taxes/spending are the most pressing issue...and I figure I am now in a deep red state, plus it's pretty hard to take the guns from me that I already have. But if it came right down to it, I'd probably join a revolution over gun control.

10 The "Deal Breaker" list should allow multiple choices.

I call five of the six items listed as absolute "don't-go-there" policies for the Republicans.

Hannity will bend over for all six.

11 After their loss in 2004, what did the Dems cave on? Nothing you say? Yeah I didn't think so. They didn't even have the House. This election was close. A better GOTV operation and a Christian non-wealthy candidate would've won this thing.

12 Can we choose all of them?

13 The base tactic of howling loudly, accusing the universe of being evil and setting fire to the nation sure seems much more adult.

14 they folding on voter fraud.  Each swing state had wild voter irregularities. But it's not cool for main stream GOP types to talk about it.  Fine.  Can the cool kids at least listen for a minute.  Or do they want to blame election loss on issues that were not decided?

This was an election mostly about econ and we worry about the obamaphone lady vote and other insulated voters who don't care and WILL NEVER vote GOP?

This was decided by mechanics.

15 Is gun control a Republican issue? I bet there's a bunch of Democrats who could lose if they voted for it.

16 There is the slim possibility that Boehner is actually being cagey on this. Boehner might be unfolding a cunning plan that makes Obama and Reid the ones to say No first and look unreasonable.

17 BTW the correct line in the sand is immigration. It polls well, even W couldn't do it.  Even Obama with supermajorities wouldn't do it.  Give them everything else.

18

You know you're a loser if you're dog won't sniff your balls.

19 I was going to say 'Taxes and Spending' for the second question but looking at the course we're on, 'Gun Control' seems more prudent.

20 We would like to fold on term limits, because it's not fair that Obama should only get two. The people have spoken.

21 Id probably be willing to give in on gay marriage, but I cant decide on the deal breaker question. They're all deal breakers for me.

22 There's already a "platform" that gets 270. Just take it, if you think it's a "platform" thing. It's a platform that just barely out-polls orphanage bombings, but...270.

So do it. Take it. Drink it up. The skull and crossbones on it just means it's bad-ass.

23 Andy please stop ignoring my emails. It hurts my feelings.

24 a Christian non-wealthy candidate would've won this thing. They will demonize whoever we run. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that regardless of who it is, the fact that they're Republican means they are evil, period. The media will find something to hang on whoever runs, even if it were a poor black female. Or, as mama winger suggested, a transgendered illegal from Tijuana.

25 What infuriates me about the fold-talk, especially from Hannity, is that it demoralizes an already shellshocked base.  Those of us who adhere to a truly conservative set of principles are further hammered-- by our own side.

Which we're not.  I imagine Rush will have a thing or two to say about this on Monday.

26 Max... Only way to reverse the decline is a wake up call. Vote present, let them fully enact their agenda and then make them own it. That's the only shot we have from where I sit.

27

Ace you sais  "the other side has done a great job of defining our positions for us"

So please explain how do we define ourselves when the other side comtrols 80% of the media, I feel the media is our worst enemy. The media controls the messageing and the narrative and I am at a loss trying to figure out how to change it  

28 I vote we choose a RINO with a history of serial infidelity and lots of flip-flopping and reaching across the aisle and go with the same consultants Mitt used.  That ought to work.

29 yes, that's key the first thing we need to do is run Democrat-approved candidates fuckin genius! what else?

30 After their loss in 2004, what did the Dems cave on? Nothing you say? Yeah I didn't think so. They didn't even have the House.

 

Posted by: xuyee at November 10, 2012 03:07 PM (/QiO2)

 

^This x 1000

31 I would certainly drop voter ID if it meant getting to 270 electoral votes. The whole reason for voter ID, after all, is to keep the Democrats from using fraud to win. This is like asking whether I would accept being bald if it meant having a lot of sex with beautiful women.

32 OVER THE LINE!!!!! This isn't Nam, Andy.

33 BTW, so far as I can tell punditpress website is doing a great job at cataloging the various swing state frauds.

As I keep saying, it's not a matter of IF, it's a question of HOW MUCH

34 And, Ace, your Perry Boner may be correct.  He's the only GOP in power that seems concerned. He will challenge other governors over the voter fraud evidence.

35 I still think the wisest course of action is for the GOP to vote "present" on all spending legislation supported by the Motherfucker. Let it burn.

36 Is gun control a Republican issue? I bet there's a bunch of Democrats who could lose if they voted for it. Posted by: joe dag at November 10, 2012 03:08 PM (hlZx/) Agree. Even those fuckers in OH/PA who keep voting Dem get pissy when gun control is brought up.

37
Concerned with winning?  Just consult with the campaign consultants for President's Dole, McCain, and Romney.

38 look, we can collapse on abortion because we are already at full on demand abortion, paid for by tax payers?  What line is there to hold?

39 WE give in completely on all taxing and spending, as per the "Let it Burn" strategy. Let 'em choke on their agenda. We'll be martyrs for liberty. Generations from now.

40 Newsweek to GOP: 'You're Old, You're White, You're History!'

http://tinyurl.com/apv62r8

Your days are done, GOP white man. In its November issue, Newsweek and writer David Frum want you to know that youÂ’re old, youÂ’re white, and youÂ’re finished.

41 If we lose abortion, I think we lose a lot of committed social cons. You want to bitch about people not turning out, then fine, make the GOP like the Dems on a fundamental moral issue, and you'll get to bitch all you want. That said, social cons need to understand that they can't drag down the whole party with their asinine, self-indulgent religious martyrdom, or the party actually will leave them and become Dems-lite.

42 Voter ID is also a huge issue.

We have significant fraud in:

Ohio
Florida
Pennsylvania
Virginia
Colorado
Wisconsin

but so far not so much in Indiana...hmmm

43 Until the media and idiotic electorate changes, nothing else will.  It doesn't matter whether we cave on anything or not.



In other words, we're screwed with a pineapple.

44 "writer David Frum want you to know that youÂ’re old, youÂ’re white, and youÂ’re finished." Projection much?

45 wait. isn't Newseek old, white, and finished, too? and isn't David Frum old, white, and finished, as well?

46 a transgendered illegal from Tijuana Couldn't hurt to try.

47 We need a federal program for free tampons to attract the womyns! It's a health issue, after all!

48 look, we can collapse on abortion because we are already at full on demand abortion, paid for by tax payers? What line is there to hold?

 

Posted by: joeindc44 at November 10, 2012 03:14 PM (Z3ckx)

 

Do you know what remains of the Republican Party when you piss off evangelicals? Giving in on amnesty wouldnt be as destructive electorally (and Im really not advocating that).

49

I've got more than one deal breaker and more than one I wish they'd drop.

 

50 Thank God David Frum's a Conservative.

51 After their loss in 2004, what did the Dems cave on? Nothing you say? Yeah I didn't think so. They didn't even have the House. Posted by: xuyee at November 10, 2012 03:07 PM (/QiO2) Yep. I don't get it. And amnesty of all things 16 million new Dem voters. The effing Republican establishment still thinks Hispanics are Conservative. That train left the station along time ago. They're mostly Socialists now.

52 Does anyone besides me think that the GOP exists only as a scapegoat for Dem failures?

They're kind of like the "villain" in pro wrestling

Paid to lose, and to give the crowds a bad guy to boo

53 I think if more people understood how dangerous it is to outlaw anything with the word carbon in it based on fools science, more people would have voted "over my dead body" on climate change.

54 Well, now: look at that -- the LEAST deal-breaky issue is ... climate change. Congrats, morons: it's a good start towards living in the world as it is, as compared to the world as it oughtta be.

55 None of this matters until we steal as many votes as they do. And none of it matter after we steal more votes than they do. We just have to be better thieves than they are and we win. It's not about ideas anymore.

56 Let 'em have it all. Coward-Priven their asses.

57 They're kind of like the "villain" in pro wrestling The Washington Generals.

58 What infuriates me about the fold-talk, especially from Hannity, is that it demoralizes an already shellshocked base. Those of us who adhere to a truly conservative set of principles are further hammered-- by our own side. Which we're not. I imagine Rush will have a thing or two to say about this on Monday. Posted by: Filly at November 10, 2012 03:11 PM Rush has been hitting on this all this past week, in fact. He has been flabbergasted that the GOP is thinking this way. What is pathetic is this is exactly what spineless Republicans did after the 2008 election: RUSH: My reaction when I saw it was good grief, good grief. I have a couple quotes here from Ronaldus Magnus, first one is from 1975. Some of you might want to needlepoint these on your pillows. "I don’t know about you," said Reagan in 1975, "but I’m impatient with those Republicans who, after the last election, rushed into print saying we must broaden the base of our party, when what they meant was to fuzz up and blur even more the differences between ourselves and our opponents." I would suggest to you that that’s exactly what’s happening now. Republicans want to fuzz up and blur the differences between ourselves and the liberal Democrats. Second Reagan quote, 1976: "Don’t give up your ideals, don’t compromise, don’t turn to expediency — and don’t, for heaven’s sake, having seen the inner workings of the watch — don’t get cynical."

59 This is not the hill to die on. Surrender now and avoid the rush. To get along, go along. Which is your favorite motto for the Republicans?

60
Remember to vote early and often.

61 So what he isn't as good as the others. You don't kick him out of the game for that!

62 Stolen from the AoSHQ Facebook page;

"Women who voted their vaginas elected a giant douche"

63 We have significant fraud in:

Ohio
Florida
Pennsylvania
Virginia
Colorado
Wisconsin

but so far not so much in Indiana...hmmm
Posted by: joeindc44 at November 10, 2012 03:16 PM

I'd recommend a close look at Michigan, too. And Illinois, and all the states where Choom Boy was making a huge, last-minute GOTV effort.

They knew. They also knew they had "banked enough votes."

64 "If we lose abortion, I think we lose a lot of committed social cons." I wonder about that. Do people really vote for president based on abortion? It's not like the president has the power to roll back _Roe_. To do that we'd have have the president, a supermajority in the Senate, a few retired Supreme Court justices, and a case that the court can hear. We're so far from that it seems like other issues dominate, even for social cons.

65 With the choice of climate change -- you mean we'd just have to pretend it's real (kind of like the Dems do), right? If so: let them have it.

66 52 Does anyone besides me think that the GOP exists only as a scapegoat for Dem failures? No, but there is definitely a lot of truth in the idea that Washington is a big fucking fiesta and the sides just take turns screwing us.

67 Now. Did they throw the motherfucker. I can go there cuz it sure does seem that way to me. Goddamned bohner. Ive had it with these assholes being so gloriously incompetent yet always coming out nice and greasy.

68 That said, social cons need to understand that they can't drag down the whole party with their asinine, self-indulgent religious martyrdom, or the party actually will leave them and become Dems-lite. Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 10, 2012 03:15 PM (4sZ3R) I think abortion is murder regardless of how the baby was conceived, but I have never let abortion be an issue as far as choosing a candidate. It's legal now, and I feel there isn't any point wasting time on it. I think Scott Brown handled well in his first campaign..he said he opposed it personally, but that the law was settled. Good enough for me.

69 You left out National Defense/Military. Yeah I kinda know that is under spending but it is a unique type of spending

70 It makes no difference. Unlikely voters favor dems 70-30. All they have to do is register these millions and get the to vote. Easier and easier with newer tech. There is nothing the GOP can do. It is over. It is done. Get over it. We're all fucked.

71
"I wonder about that. Do people really vote for president based on abortion?"



Yes.  If the GOP stops nominating pro-life candidates, that means the issue is never being addressed.


"It's not like the president has the power to roll back _Roe_. To do that we'd have have the president, a supermajority in the Senate, a few retired Supreme Court justices, and a case that the court can hear."


And when you weigh that against millions of babies being killed every year, we pro-lifers just plumb don't care about how difficult it is to get rid of it.  It's important.

72 Gay marriage

73 This fucking place... I love you guys but we didn't lose on issue or culture. We got this thing stolen. That's all that matters in the next four years-- build an organization that can steal better than them.

74 I think many of us are feeling this. Just give the dems everything they want. Fuck it. Raise taxes on the wealthy. And on the middle class. Spend more money. Trillion dollar deficits aren't good enough, why not 1.5 trillion? Open the borders wide. Ban guns. Not only gay marriage but mandatory gay sex and abortions for everyone! Also let's have free condoms, tampons, Vagisil, birth control, Summer's Eve, etc. Every college girl could get a gift box of this stuff from Uncle Sam. Because why not? The American people voted for this shit. Like I said above, fuck it.

75

 Ya wanna win elections, and win them handily?

 Stop attacking American voters who agree with you on many, if not most, issues. (You start with the 'squishy middle' and go downhill from there.)

 It's not just a problem with messaging or mechanics or even of candidates and campaign incompetence.

 When you alienate Americans, you lose voters who might otherwise have voted for you and yours. It doesn't matter if you for it, or if you endorse Coulter, Hannity and Rush to do it for you. The more you do it, the more voters you lose. You claim to have the moral high ground, but act like bullies on a playground. Contrary to the opinion of many on the right, most Americans are not stupid. They see and hear this duplicitous behavior in almost everything you do and say...and they want no part of it.

 You wanna lead America to a better place? YOU - each and every one of you - has got to act like a leader. Leaders don't go around making things difficult for themselves. They set an example. That example doesn't include offering or endorsing the public humiliation of the very people they desire to lead. This is true for ideologies and politics as well as for businessmen and civic leaders. Any businessman who does this will fail. Any civic leader who does this will fail. A military leader who does this will fail. You do it and... wonder why you fail? You wonder why no one follows you or your ideology?

 If you want to see civility return to America, it's got to start with you.

 

76 We should reach out to gays cuz, after all, their main issue is the economy.

77 Does anyone besides me think that the GOP exists only as a scapegoat for Dem failures? --- The Sherlockian Donks (who are all science and logically) defeat the Moriarty-like elephants who believe in superstition.

78 OT: 

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has turned down an invitation to testify before the House Foreign Affairs Committee next Thursday on the Benghazi attack.

A committee update this evening indicated that Michael Courts, acting director of International Affairs and Trade for the Government Accountability Office, will be testifying followed by a RAND Corp. analyst.

The committee indicated further witnesses could be added, but the State Department confirmed that Clinton wonÂ’t be one of them.

http://tinyurl.com/bolb6bp

79 Not only gay marriage but mandatory gay sex That one might be a bit of a reacharound...I mean overreach.

80 @52:"Does anyone besides me think that the GOP exists only as a scapegoat for Dem failures?" Yeah, and the GOP leadership seems eager to play along with that role. This election was winnable, I don'tbuy all this demoralizing crap being peddled now. The margins were too slim. But this wasn't because of libertarians sitting out or evangelicals turning off swing voters. It was because the GOP leadership let the dems and the media win at every turn. Here's the dilemma: We have the numbers to win with the organization we have, but the organization is led by fuck ups. Do we rally around the fuck ups and get screwed over, or not. I'm ready to say enough.

81 There is nothing the GOP can do. It is over. It is done. Get over it. We're all fucked. Posted by: That's right at November 10, 2012 03:22 PM (Mn9Ib) I agree completely, but I still say we can have fun going down. I wish we could run two candidates who would just tell it like it is. Honey Badger/Big Brass Balls 2016 Allan West/Ann Coulter? Allan West/Adam Corolla?

82 *They knew. They also knew they had "banked enough votes."*

no, obama was expecting to lose, that's why he was crying.

83 Dems stealing votes isn't necessary. They are favored more than 2 to 1 by the populace. The more they get to vote the more they win. Ideas, strategies, etc mean nothing. It is done.

84 I think Scott Brown handled well in his first campaign..he said he opposed it personally, but that the law was settled. Good enough for me. Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 10, 2012 03:22 PM

But it sure as hell didn't work for Brown this time. Lieawatha Warren turned it into a Free Shit and "keep your hands off my lady parts" issue. All the Angry MA Wimminz went stomping to her side.

P.S. She won.

If we were to cave on all these issues -- a move that would force me out of supporting the Repub candidate, BTW -- the Democrats would say "ooooh, you're flip-flopping again!!11!!" and any possible gains would be lost.

85 I am pro-life. Obama is going to create a pro-choice Supreme Court for at least a generation. There is nothing, besides this, a President or congressman can do. Drop abortion--the un-Christian part of me says it's leftists who are having their children killed anyway.

86 we need a new speaker of House.  We need to go full 2004.  Fight every issue.  Demand a budget and voterID in exchange for taxes.

Look, we can give up taxes for now.  Obama ran on taxes and teachers.  give it to them.  Don't give him judges and immigration.

87

Voter ID is like dis infatizin' da voters or somethin

So what if some precints got 141 pur-cents turns out

So what if all those precints went for Messiah 99.5 purse-ents

Best be respectin my votes and not dis infantisin dem votes

 

88 We ought to bend on drug prohibition. Stop chasing justice and start chasing the dragon.

89 How come you won't read MY emails, Andy?

90 Warren, you're funny.

91

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 10, 2012 03:25 PM (WwR1j)

 

Charlie Browns teacher???

92 no, obama was expecting to lose, that's why he was crying.
Posted by: joeindc44 at November 10, 2012 03:26 PM

We'll have to disagree on that. I think it's BS.

Too much choom smoke in your eyes will make the tears flow. I learned that in college.

93 "Because why not? The American people voted for this shit. " You know, I live in California. I used to think this way too. "One day the voters will wake up and realize things are so screwed up because that's what they voted for. Then they'll vote for something else." But it was a forlorn hope. Things keep getting worse and the voters keep doubling down. Once you reach the point where the tax eaters outnumber the tax payers you're done until the whole thing collapses. We've reached that point in CA, but we haven't reached it nationally. Not yet. I refuse to surrender until I lose.

94 It all comes down to entitlements doesn't it? Both the non working parasites, and the hardworking constantly worrying about business " me" both think we are " entitled" to my money. They aren't, I am. That's a line in the sand I'm not going to cross. If I have to move the business out of country...I will. If I have to idle it, and all the effing medical research that can save lives, I will. The line is drawn and frankly I'm in a very long term fuck you mode now. And you know what? I'm not alone. Let these parasites deal with the FDA,CDC and all the other migraine inducing shitheads I have to deal with every other day. Throw in the patent office, attorneys and more crap than you can imagine....we'll see how long THEY keep their sanity. Let Barry kiss Google's ass...just how many lives have they saved?

95 Fight the Dems on guns and amnesty, but give them all the taxes and spending they want. The Machine will sputter and implode when it runs out of money. The act will be violent and chaotic, but this is normal when a system is far removed from equilibrium.

96 Even with Voter ID laws in place do you think the folks in the Philly hood with the obama mural on the wall will give a crap and even bother to check anyone's ID.

97 Mr Scribbler, I know he lost. I also know that many areas of Boston had that amazing 128% turnout, some had turnout on the upper 130s!. I do think the Brown vote was stolen. I have many Lib friends in the suburbs of Boston and only one voted for her. They were shocked that Warren one. Hell, the one who voted for her was shocked.

98 I think we need to separate taxes from spending, even though the Dems never would.

If they're in power, letting them tax everything is a good way to LET IT BURN.

If we're in power, and we're serious about closing the deficit and the national debt, then significant raises in revenue, as well as targeted taxes (fuck you, Hollywood, here's a 35% surcharge for everything you do), are necessary to go along with Rand Paul style spending cuts.

99 If you want to see civility return to America, it's got to start with you. Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 10, 2012 03:25 PM (WwR1j) ------------------------------------ I agree 100%. SO LISTEN UP YOU TEA BAGGIN, DOUCHEBAG, HOMOPHOBIC, BIGOTED, BIBLE-SPEWIN', REDNECK, COCK-SUCKIN', PALIN-LOVIN SHITSTAINS!!!!! We Libs are with you. Just tone it down a bit.

100 Climate change was it for me.  It's the last piece in the puzzle of gaining perpetual (and I mean that literally, for millenia) for the Crypto-Marxists.  Read up on Hydraulic Empires:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_empire

This is how they achieve their dream of control of 1984 style society:

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever."

101 I think Federalism especially on social issues is the way forward. I want DC to be immaterial to my life... dammit Perry you where our only hope.

102 HA!  Currently I am underwater on both of those.  I went for taxes and spending in the top one because I want the Billionaire Buffet Tax.  I want a 75% tax on wealth over $1 Billion, charitable giving not exempt.  He said he wanted it, give it to him good.

I went for illegal immigration on the 2nd one, because if amnesty happens all the rest are moot.

103 So, 51% of you would drop abortion? Fuck you all. You got what you deserved then Tuesday. Own it, you closeted Obots.

104

Drop abortion--the un-Christian part of me says it's leftists who are having their children killed anyway.
___

Sometimes I go to the parish in the more affluent zip code, because it's the last chance mass. Lots of families with 4 + children. There's even one that always shows up with seven kids in tow: all boys. Only ones having big families are conservative Catholics, Mormons, and Muslims. I don't know many evangelicals, the one evang family I know has six kids.

105 Even though I'm an upper income voter and care deeply about taxes in my blue hell hole of a state, the fact that many on here want to drop the right to life of the unborn is pathetic. If all people care about is money and guns, I'd be happy to become an independent.

106 "40 Newsweek to GOP: 'You're Old, You're White, You're History!'

http://tinyurl.com/apv62r8

Your days are done, GOP white man. In its November issue, Newsweek and writer David Frum want you to know that youÂ’re old, youÂ’re white, and youÂ’re finished.

Posted by: kbdabear at November 10, 2012 03:15 PM (wwsoB)"

I've also got the money you Leftards need to pay off your voters.

I really wish the Left's alleged superiority in all aspects of human life extended to the ability to earn enough of their own fucking money without taking any from me. You want to impress me with your intelligence? Get a job that pays you enough so you don't have to reach into my wallet.

107 If you want to see civility return to America, it's got to start with you.
Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 10, 2012 03:25 PM

Yes, because we know that most Americans certainly don't believe that Sarah Palin shot Gabby Giffords, don't we

108 so just agree with the Democrats on abortion? does that include late-term abortions? how about no-parental consent laws, do you like them, too?

109 How does the GOP 'give in' on abortion?

It's already legal and the Fed's give money to Planned Parenthood and other providers. What are we going to do? Allow retro-active abortion?

Climate change?
The EPA hasn't be stopped by Congress. Again, what is there for the GOP to stop?

Gun Control*
Now here's the only kill-the-party issue. Once gun bans in place it's impossible to rescind. You destroy the 2nd Amendment and the whole game is over.

Illegal immigration?
As opposed to the current system?

Voter ID
No reason to give in. The US public wants voter ID, and that includes minorities. Nothing to give there.

For the rest the GOP only need Abstain from every measure and let the public receive their fucking wishes.

110 If you want to see civility return to America, it's got to start with you. Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 10, 2012 03:25 PM (WwR1j) ---------------------------------- The FIRST thing the Tea Baggers can do to repair relations is to cop to the Giffords shooting.

111 I have many Lib friends in the suburbs of Boston and only one voted for her. They were shocked that Warren one. Hell, the one who voted for her was shocked. Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 10, 2012 03:30 PM

True dat, Tammy.

My GF worked the polls and counted votes in our town, and believes Fauxcahontas lost here.

But, hey, this is a Democrat state (see: Joe Kennedy III) and Choom Boy's BFF Devil Patrick made sure damn nearly all of them won. It's a state law or something.

112 I refuse to surrender until I lose. Posted by: Ace's liver at November 10, 2012 03:29 PM (1+XRG) I refuse to surrender even when I know it's lost. I'm Southern, it's in my genetic memory. I won't give up, ever, but neither will I ever get my hopes up again. All we can do is make it as painful as possible for them as we sink. I am always open for miracles, I just ain't gettin' fooled again. Voter fraud needs to be addressed, but I think that's our only real hope.

113 I don't know how many others have had similar experiences, but here's what it's like for me trying to describe my political views to someone who is not terribly politically inclined or someone who is one of those soft, go-along get-along liberals: I try to explain the need for entitlement reform and why failing to achieve it will bankrupt the country. I'm told that my part is the party of hate, because we hate gay people, we want to outlaw abortion, and we want to take benefits away from black people, and we hate the brown people and we want to deport them. You can stand there all day trying to explain why limited government is a good thing, why we need to spend less, why jacking up taxes will hurt the economy. You can expound upon your conservative philosophy all you like, but at the end of the day, the other side has branded Republicans, branded conservatives, and our brand is: "People who hate gays, hate women, hate minorities, are greedy and don't want to help people." Also, somehow we get blamed for keeping marijuana illegal. Doesn't matter if it's true, doesn't matter who actually does what, we get blamed for it. This is just me talking, but there are three issues that I am sick of debating and sick of having to carry water for other conservatives: abortion, gay marriage and teaching creationism in schools. In the end, these are losing issues, and I for one am not willing to have a bankrupt, helpless nation that has managed to keep abortion illegal. As crass as it might be to say, I would much rather have a strong country with limited government, robust national defense, the capitalist light of the globe, the rule of law, and hope for the future, yet with abortion on every street corner. I would make that trade. And I'm not a libertarian because 1) I believe that national defense means more than just having a home guard, and 2) I'd like to actually win an election once in a while, rather than sitting back smugly and talking about how smart I am for being a libertarian. All those people want to do whip their dicks out and talk about who's more libertarian than who, and how can we kick out the people who aren't libertarian enough. I have an in-law like that who voted for fucking what's his name the libertarian, and he can go fuck himself. So that is where I think we're at: The left has branded us, and we have no good answer to repel the things they have used to brand us, and if we don't manage to fix that, not a lot of swing voters want to listen to what we have to say.

114 "This election was winnable, I don'tbuy all this demoralizing crap being peddled now. The margins were too slim. But this wasn't because of libertarians sitting out or evangelicals turning off swing voters. It was because the GOP leadership let the dems and the media win at every turn. " Romney tacked too far left in an effort to woo independents. McCain wasn't exactly the conservative's dream, but if Romney had gotten the same number of Republican votes we'd be celebrating today. I think the base was looking for a guy who would roll back Obamacare, and Romney just wasn't believable on that score. Hell, McCain did better with mormons. How did _that_ happen?

115 I think Federalism especially on social issues is the way forward. I want DC to be immaterial to my life... dammit Perry you where our only hope.

 

Posted by: CarolinaPunk at November 10, 2012 03:31 PM (oL1j3)

 

Um well.. you ... um ... yes... uh... I... uh... well... uh... um... uh... thank... uh... you... uh! 

116 I would fight for 2nd ammendment and illegal immigration. Losing those does nothing for us. More immgrants = more dem voters. On some things, let Obama have his way economically if that is what it will take to see how wrong he is.

Let Bush's tax cuts expire, the dems keep on claiming they are only for millionaires anyway, let the public find out how wrong they are when their taxes increase by 50%.

Entertainment tax, cap deductions for state and local taxes, choosing to live in a high tax state doesn't exempt you from paying your fair share federally. Lets start auditing some of these movies. Titanic never made a profit and paid any taxes, there's a nice little sound bite.

Give in on anything that might lead to Republicans being blamed for failure otherwise.  Let them own it all. Let it burn.

117 I will trade taxes for school vouchers

118 "If you want to see civility return to America, it's got to start with you.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 10, 2012 03:25 PM (WwR1j)"

I'd prefer to see curbstomping return to America, starting with you.

119 Some of you don't think shit through, do you? It's not just abortion that's the issue. It's the Left's constant pushing of the envelope. Late term abortions. No parental consent. That's bad enough; do you think the Left will stop there? They won't.

120 FRT I think the way the 2 campaigns acted after the first debate up to and including the moment the results actually came it that it was clear Obama knew he was losing and Romney knew he was winning. I don't care what anyone says: something in the milk ain't clean.

Nonetheless, I think the right's jumping to point fingers and place blame (as we always does when we lose)  is *especially* idiotic this time. We all realize what a SCoaMF TFG is --but most of the voters don't because the MSM carries his water and shuts down anyone who has the nerve to even "challenge" him. Furthermore, only incumbent presidents who go through a primary challenge ever end up losing the general election; no incumbent president (even ones not as beloved by the MSM as Obama) has been defeated otherwise. Finally, every crucial swing state loss was by a pretty small margin (74,000 votes is the margin in FL that I saw AP reporting today -- total of 314,000 all together), Obama lost huge margins in other states he carried by 10+ last time and the popular vote difference is going to end up being around 2%-- while it's a loss, it's not the complete and utter failure by Romney or the GOP !!!eleventy!! people on both sides are trying to say it is.

Yes it sucks. Yes I'm disgusted that anyone could have voted for TFG in 2008 much less 2012, but it is the MSM and the cult of Obama that is the problem here, not conservative ideas.

121

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 10, 2012 03:17 PM (kGz1m)

 

Tell the evangelicals to start adopting unwanted babies or build real orphanages that are better than the best private schools. Then tell them that aborted babies go straight to heaven anyway. See how evangelical they are with their own damn money. Just a couple solution oriented suggestions, both of which beat lip service and guilt in spades.

America isn't church. And they you argue that it is, I submit that liberal democrats just made sure it ain't THEIR church for another four years.

Another thing for them to consider, lots and lots of liberal want to remove God from our society all together. Pick any battles that will give us all the best shot at keeping Him in our fabric.

Demonstration of solutions regarding abortion is a place to start. If you show a woman what the child's life will be if she carries to term, she might go ahead and give birth. Some foster homes are cesspools. WHo would roll the dice on strongly suggesting that avenue, especially having faith and believing God accepts them in Grace if they're aborted?

122 We need (1) a better GOTV operation, (2) to be more aggressive about fighting voter fraud, and most importantly (3) to do a better job of communicating what it means to be a conservative.

123 red.state.secession.

124 Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 10, 2012 03:25 PM (WwR1j) You can take your civility and shove it. Lack of civility isn't the problem for the GOP. There is a battle between freedom and free stuff. Free stuff will now always win because it votes. The difference is that the "free stuff" folks vote now. They didn't/couldn't before. 70-30 unlikelies favor Dems. I bet it has been true for a long long time, it's just that unlikelies are more likely to vote now. New tech means more "free stuff" folks will vote in increasing numbers in every election.

125 Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 10, 2012 03:33 PM (yKUrR) Yea, I don't know what y'all have in the water up there, but they surely love them some Kennedy. Which is weird, because evryone I know there has had nothing but bad experiences with the overall family ( stiffed on tips, expect everything to be comped, etc)

126 If ya can't beat em, join em?  So that's our winning strategy now?  What's next, camping out in parks and pooping on cars?

127 osted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 10, 2012 03:25 PM (WwR1j) Does anyone remember when this moby fuck was advocating seccession, taking the most far right wing positions imaginable, and saying he hated hispanics?

128 Who here has a duaghter? You okay with Democrats deciding that you don't need to be even told that your daughter has an abortion? You okay that your child is being consulted into having an abortion without you knowing about it? God almighty, if the Left will do that, what else are they planning??

129 Anybody but Romney could have clubbed Obama over the head with Obamacare. Since Obamacare was based on Romneycare and Romney always said he would "Repeal and Replace", he had no real leverage.

130 Posted by: soothsayer at November 10, 2012 03:09 PM (jUytm) lol Boner being cunning

131 we are either conservatives that stand for the constitution or we aren't...i'm not going to fucking negotiate with fucking terrorists....period and yes the libs are fucking terrorists deal with it.....

132 I guess no one is considering that maybe a lot of people who sat this one out were apathetic toward lukewarm conservatism?

133 So, 51% of you would drop abortion? Fuck you all. You got what you deserved then Tuesday. Own it, you closeted Obots. Posted by: Average Joe at November 10, 2012 03:32 PM Hear hear. If the fucks on this board don't care about the innocent, I'd love for their taxes to go up and their guns taken away. Bunch of low class trash.

134

Posted by: i like anchors 2012 at November 10, 2012 03:35 PM (LCZ3l)

 

Of course! Because its evangelicals who need to be lectured about charity!

135 I'm with Truman North on this. The Dems are a party of thieves and thugs. We need to play their game; learn how to steal votes the next go round. We need a brass set of balls and become agressive with those thugs. They stole the goddam election. We have to play their game.

136
He preceded the thought experiment with an admonition of giving in by the repubs.  No need to feel people are willing to give up any of them in actuality.

I think he purposely did not put in the "none of the above" answer.

137 Late to the conversation but I'm thinking third party.  What have we got to lose?  Another election?

138 Do you so-con haters really believe the Left is satisfied with open homosexuals in the military? I can't wait to see what you say when next year they push to allow trannies in the military. If we've learned anything in our short history, it's that the Left never stops pushing and pushing their radical agenda.

139

I chose abortion to drop. Not because I am pro abortion but because republican men can't talk about it without stepping on their dick and losing the entire country in doing it.

 

 

America just voted for at least 2 and probably 3 new young liberal justices to the supreme court. Roe V. Wade will be the law for the rest of most of our lifetimes. There is nothing we can do about that now, it's over. If you wan't to slow down or stop abortion you will have to do it through education and outreach, not government mandates or laws. It's over.

140 We aren't setting it on fire, but I'm damned tired of being the fireman trying to rescue people from idiocy. Let it burn. We clean up later.

141 and another thing....until we are willing to die on the fucking hill.......this is all we deserve.....

142 If you want to see the people we are talking about that voted for this fuck go google "celebration outside WH democrats chant Karl Marx"....these fucks are literally chanting for socialism and their free obama phones. Fuck it give it all to them. Give it to them nice and hard. I want them to get everything that is coming to them.

143 "123 red.state.secession.

Posted by: the little voice in your head at November 10, 2012 03:35 PM (EZl54)"

Think bigger. Red county secession.

Red county self-determination is the only political solution. Maybe not today, but eventually.

Obama won, what, 10-15% of the landmass of the country? Who gives a shit how many people that is. Unless those people in Obama's urban supporter base want to go out to the red counties to administer the DC empire, it's irrelevant how many of them there are.

Even the Romans couldn't command an empire from a single city once the people outside of that city got an itch for independence.

144 first, romney was content to argue competence and the economy is bad.  Not enough or was it? (cough cough voter fraud, bad GOTV)

second, even though perry looked the dumbass, he is only GOP leader even considering voter fraud issue.  That means he has balls.  The GOP leadership lacks balls.  Therefore, second look at Perry?  yes.

third, abortion is basically at full operational status anyway.  We argue over rape abortions but in cities it's full speed ahead.  Find a line to stand that 2/3 people agree with.  Most will agree to no late terms.  That will have to do for now.

145 Dems can never allow a cap on deductions anymore than they can allow a flat tax.  There are about a million Tax Attorneys, Accountants, Investment Advisers, etc. out there who's very lucrative livelihoods depend on our screwed up tax code with its high rates and thousands of deductions.  Hell, a cap on deductions would cause massive layoffs for BMW! :-)

This million man army skews heavily (>75%?) Democrat and contributes a big chunk (>25%) of the cash that the Dems depend on.

Never.Going.To.Happen.

146 Deal breakers: Gun control and immigration.

But don't want to give them anything. Make life as difficult as possible for the Dems. Make them and Obama overreach in their efforts to implement their agenda.

147 BTW this poll needs an option for "all of the above, give it to them".

148 Posted by: Sassy at November 10, 2012 03:39 PM (mJKH0) They don't need to steal elections. Unlikely voters favor Dems 2-1. Just register them and have them email their votes in right from the dem operative's iPad. We are utterly fucked. Fucked fucked fucked.

149 Posted by: soothsayer at November 10, 2012 03:35 PM (jUytm) Oh, I agree with you there, but the thing is, you can already abort up til labor pains. There is nowhere else to go. It's not that I don't think they'd stop with killing children...didn't Cass Sunstein already float killing them being okay up til about 5 years old, since their personalities were not distinct yet?.... but that'd be a long way off and there are other issues needing to be dealt with first. Please don't misunderstand me, I am opposed to abortion, period. I"m just saying if we'd call it settled law, I do think we'd get votes. And I have nothing but respect for those who refuse to budge on this; it is truly life and death. Just saying I myself am no longer willing to refuse to entertain a candidate who is great except for his/her abortion stance. (I never really have been that way)

150

We lost the election because  over 50% of the nation is mal-educated (taught to hate America),  have no ethics or morality, and want all that sweet sweet free shit. 

 

Let it burn.

151 I wasn't allowed to vote multiple-choice on the deal-breakers, so I "stayed home" on that poll. I don't see why I should be giving in.

152

Posted by: soothsayer at November 10, 2012 03:36 PM (jUytm)

Hell no. The far right hinting at going afer Roe v Wade is  what I am talking about.  It is done. Deal with  it that way. Own it,  stop the funding and the rampant nonsense like removing parents from the notification process. I'd talk her through it a lot better than some ugly godless hag that hates men and gets her sexual jollies from fantasizing about turning a teen out after "counselling" her about abortion er, man hate.

153 You don't compromise your beliefs just because you lost the battle.  Nobody in the government, the clergy or the scientific community agreed with Copernicus, but he was still on the right side of the issue. 

Being outnumbered by idiots does not make you wrong.

154 Secession isn't going to work, as awesome as it seems.

Have you seen the county maps? Even Texas has a streak of bright blue down near the border. When the leftists destroy their own states, what's going to keep them from moving into yours? Are there going to be expulsions of liberals from conservative states, and vice versa? We had a document that enshrined conservative values for centuries and it couldn't withstand the rot.

This is why I want it to burn. A slow decline turns us into England--a once-mighty force for good that is now moribund, and whose conservative party is in the tank for socialized medicine. A quick, catastrophic shock has the potential to bring some of the more than 100,000,000 Americans who didn't vote in this election to their senses.

155 "Also let's have free condoms, tampons, Vagisil, birth control, Summer's Eve, etc. Every college girl could get a gift box of this stuff from Uncle Sam. " Darrencardinal, I hate to break it to you, but except for the the bc pills, you've just listed the contents of the gift boxes they hand out at the beginning of the college semester. Then there is a followup letter from Planned Parenthood.

156 I guess no one is considering that maybe a lot of people who sat this one out were apathetic toward lukewarm conservatism?

Posted by: Havedash at November 10, 2012 03:38 PM (ToMJU)

 

 

Yeah I thought about that, then I thought so letting a full throated marxist win is the answer? I don't know anyone who thinks like that.

157 "Demonstration of solutions regarding abortion is a place to start. If you show a woman what the child's life will be if she carries to term, she might go ahead and give birth." Anybody who's dealt with the adoption morass knows the problem doesn't involve a place for unwanted babies. Couples trying to adopt can't get a healthy newborn. Hell, there are states where you can just drop off your newborn at the local hospital, no questions asked. Abortion is only partly about not having a child. The other part is not carrying a baby to term and giving birth. No system to take care of unwanted children is going to address that.

158 "Yea, I don't know what y'all have in the water up there, but they surely love them some Kennedy.

Which is weird, because evryone I know there has had nothing but bad experiences with the overall family ( stiffed on tips, expect everything to be comped, etc)

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 10, 2012 03:36 PM (2rMmy)"

A third of the Democrats in MA are historical Dems.  Much like Patriots fans, they vote for the Democrats because their family always did and make excuses for their misbehavior for the same reason.  These are more or less normal people who live conservative lives but who vote Dem as a family heritage.  Most of the hackerama come from this group - they're out for loot from the state and see government as big mind of wealth.  They generally don't like anything that restricts their freedom and are all about minorities (as long as they are in other neighborhoods).

A third are on the dole.  Why they vote Dem is obvious.

The last third are the worst.  They're the moonbats.  They are the hardcore marxists who push for weirdo control laws and want insane things to happen.  Massachusetts is a big college state, and the students, fresh from Marxism indoctrination at the Universities, go forth to vote with all the fury of the Revolution.  A good chunk stick around after graduation, and will over time morph into the first group.

Republicans exist, but are about a quarter of the state and shrinking as more flee.  Independents in MA are clueless and genuinely believe both parties are the same.

159 Drop abortion--the un-Christian part of me says it's leftists who are having their children killed anyway.

(I am glad I am not the only one who had this thought...)

160

Voter ID is a must. O lost every state requiring ID. He won MN IA WI NV CO NM PA none required ID and total 66 EVs. Add this to Romney's 205 and he has 271 and would not even need FL or OH and both are no ID states. Forget immigration push voter ID and reduce the margin of fraud.

161

If we've learned anything in our short history, it's that the Left never stops pushing and pushing their radical agenda.

 

^^^This

 

The overton window, they will never stop.  I just don't know how to stop them short of a revolution.

162 ---> 26 That's how I see it, as well. Give the voters what asked for as soon as possible. That way they feel the full brunt of their decision right away. No sense in slowly boiling the frog any longer. Elections have consequences.

163 Abortion should be a local statutory right, not a Constitutional or Federal one. Abortion is here to stay, but you at least should be able to escape it or change your local laws. That is the best you will ever get.

164 we let the left have the language - Political Correctness

we let the left have education - Publically Funded Crypto-Marxist Indoctrination Studies Camps (colleges and universities)

we let the left have social programs - Social Security/Welfare /Medicare




what could possibly go wrong with allowing them them to execute babies in womb?

165 commit to conservatism, link to heritage foundation http://tinyurl.com/aej4b7c

166 I'll add this about the abortion issue -- our side cannot continue being the side that doesn't really like it but also doesn't really want to outlaw it completely. You want to know why I think Obama got such huge support from single women? He had an ad that was nothing but Romney repeating over and over again: "I want to overturn Roe v Wade." Our side is the one with the muddled message. Generally "pro life," but a bunch of us are absolutists who want abortion outlawed, but at the same time swing voters should vote for us because we're really not going to outlaw it, at least we don't have any plans to. What do you think the swing voters hear? From a messaging standpoint, it's doubly bad for us. The Dems get to look like they're the proud, strong defenders of "a woman's right to choose." Defending women against the crazy people who are going to take that away. They win no matter what.

167 Revenge Time. War on Waitresses! Stop tipping. Young women want to vote with their 'ladyparts" and not their brains, let their bosses pay their salaries not us. Tell them you would have loved to give them a tip, but the Obama economy is crushing you.

168 Anybody but Romney could have clubbed Obama over the head with Obamacare. Since Obamacare was based on Romneycare and Romney always said he would "Repeal and Replace", he had no real leverage. Posted by: Redman Bluestate at November 10, 2012 03:37 PM

***********************************************

Of all the post-election finger pointing that is the one that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Romney wasn't "credible"on repealing Obamacare even though he said it had to be as part of his 5 point plan he repeated every.single.stump.speech (including the speech he gave at the NAACP conference) and at all 3 debates (even the last one of foreign policy) because he also acknowledged that health care prices is a problem that needs to be addressed, so people went with the guy who was guaranteed to keep it.
The entire argument proves that there are as many idiots on the right as there are on the left.

169 Why are we talking about changes to the 2016 platform when the reality of today in 2012 is that the House GOP leadership are incompetent and squishy and already selling us out?

We need to ignite a grassroots revolt in the House to oust Boehner.

Immediately. Starting with a vote of no confidence.

THEN we talk platform.

170 and another thing....until we are willing to die on the fucking hill.......this is all we deserve.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at November 10, 2012 03:40 PM (Ho2rs)

 

 

-----------------------------------------

 

 

This.  But I think this nation is too used to limping and whimpering toward it's fiery death.  It's not politically correct to fight anymore  and too many people, especially on our side (bless their hearts) have fallen prey to it. 

171 I guess it will just remain a conspiracy in my head, but I will probably always believe that West, Brown, and Mia Love were targeted to lose by fraud.  I don't know about the national race and maybe Brown was just a victim of MA, but those ones just don't seem legit to me.

172 Give up abortion and the left will turn their attention to euthanasia. Then after they get that, it will be forced euthanasia for the terminally ill and so on.

173 I don't get it. Are you asking Dems what they would do or what we should do? Where's David Brooks? He's smart. Not like everybody says.

174 I guess no one is considering that maybe a lot of people who sat this one out were apathetic toward lukewarm conservatism? Posted by: Havedash at November 10, 2012 03:38 PM (ToMJU) I have discovered three people I know who didn't vote. They are just wishy-washy period. Either liked some things about Obama, liked some things about Romney, or didn't like some things about both of them. They're too lukewarm themselves, period.

175 Abortion can and should go. 

Climate change and voter ID are deal breakers, I will not vote for a warmist under any circumstances.

As far as I'm concerned it may have made economic sense to fight upper-income tax increases but it makes little political sense, particularly if you can make sure that those increases mostly clobber the other guy's constituents.   Protect small investor cap-gains (0% below 100K, 10% up to 250K, 20% to 500K, and 30% above that) and a restricted mortgage deduction (eliminate the first/second/HELOC distinction, just interest on max $250K total loan balance), and let them have the rest.

Republican governors and statehouses need to focus on voter ID and energy development.

176 Civility is for closers.

177

142...Fuck it give it all to them. Give it to them nice and hard. I want them to get everything that is coming to them.

 

They will blame the GOP for their failures...if we don't get it in writing.

 

If Boehner is going to cave, then he should at least make them own it.

 

Get it in writing.

Make them publish it...make Barky and the Dems put what they want, in a list.

Make it a condition, that the List of Demands is published in the media.

 

Then simply vote...'present'...and let it pass.

 

When it all fails, then we can say "You got what you wanted!"

 

If any of our Republicans vote for their List...then the Dems will say "But you voted for it too!"

They've done this before.

 

 

178

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 10, 2012 03:39 PM (kGz1m)

Not making a dent in that  deal breaking  issue so far...

Also, if  the   evangelicals are such a powerful voting bloc, why wasn't Huckabee the guy in 08 or Santorum in 2012? 

Like it or not, it is the far right and the far left that the vast majority of America votes against in the age old "lesser of two evils" scenario. 

179 I see no problem in getting a scrape.  It is a woman's decision alone.

180 Posted by: Brewdog at November 10, 2012 03:33 PM (H8YE0) Yes. Exactly right. The icons are burned into their minds. We are Sauron. They are Gandalf.

181 Actually, I'll take gun control. Everybody who hates Obama already has their weapons cache in place. All of my transactions are under the table anyway. So the government can go and restrict all it wants. That way, when the SHTF, the liberals will be completely incapable of defending themselves, and the gummint will be too concerned over defending their interests in DC. Isn't it ironic, doncha think?

182 I say we give up on giving in.

183 So you fucks want to kill babies? How about kill yourselves? Luckily the death panels will take care of some of you cocksuckers. Could not happen to a nicer bunch. I'm reminded how many thought starving Terry Schiavo to death was just fine.

184 I needed "all of the above" to answer the Over My Dead Body poll.

185 24 a Christian non-wealthy candidate would've won this thing. Yeah, her name was Sarah Palin. She didn't win.

186 Anybody but Romney could have clubbed Obama over the head with Obamacare. Since Obamacare was based on Romneycare and Romney always said he would "Repeal and Replace", he had no real leverage. Posted by: Redman Bluestate at November 10, 2012 03:37 PM (sRIFP) I pointed that out during the primaries and was told "Nah! That's crazy talk!"

187 Only one of the above has wholesale impact, and that is immigration, specifically Mexican & South American immigration. Without those populations immigration becomes a non-issue.

Mexican and CA immigration, however, is the purest sort of 21st century parasitic economic warfare. Why should I try to kill you if I can hang you in my wine cellar and drink your blood at my leisure?

With M/CA immigration, those nations are exporting social welfare programs they themselves will not afford into the U.S. to be designed to Democrat-generous standards and then deficit-funded by our entire economy. This massive biological cuckoldry, like having a foreign organism lay and hatch its larvae in the bellies of every American, ends up driving many if not all of the other issues on the list - abortion, climate change, gun control, taxes and spending, and voted ID.

If we can't even afford our own welfare state, dear God, we certainly can't afford our own AND Mexico/CA's welfare states, eagerly designed and hosted by us, as well.

188 Posted by: Redman Bluestate at November 10, 2012 03:47 PM (sRIFP) Yea, okay, but make sure you ask first. I have many relatives who are die hard Conservatives who wait tables.

189 Help! I've fallen into the Weimar Republic and can't get up!

190 Gun control really doesn't belong in there; hell, even the Dems are afraid to muck about on that one very much. But it is a dealbreaker to talk about removing our right to bear arms; that's the right that protects all the others, as tattered as they are.
 
btw Andy, thanks again for putting that poll up this am. Nearly 3300 unique votes, and the winner is.....Shut down the government. No increase in the debt cap pulled 28%; runner up was Let It Burn at 26%.
 
Going Galt pulled a respectable 17% as well.
 
Two conclusions can be drawn from my poll -- there's quite a variety of opinion on exactly what we think ought to come next, and the most popular options are pretty radical.
 
Thanks for participating everyone.

191 George Bush did great with lateeenoss.  He only lost by 20 points while pandering his ass off.  Are we going to make that up in volume?

192

Posted by: Redman Bluestate at November 10, 2012 03:47 PM (sRIFP)

___

There are conservative women who also wait tables. You'd have to employ some kind of screen while they're taking your order, maybe ask if they were happy preazy got a 2nd term. Only the dumbest and most committed obots would break out in a big smile. Smart waitresses, no matter what their persuasion, would play it close to the vest.

193 I went with abortion on the first and gun control on the second.  Roe v. Wade is never, ever going to be overturned and so why even bring it up?  Gun control because tax and spend is something the GOP likes to flap their piehole about, but I don't see a lot of actual commitment.  My favorite thing would be term limits on congress.  Yeah, let me go feed my unicorn, brb.

194 The next repub candidate should do what dems do.  Separate everyone into their little groups, hold rallies for each of those groups, tell each group exactly what it wants to hear, get elected, and then govern constitutionally.

195 @138:If we've learned anything in our short history, it's that the Left never stops pushing and pushing their radical agenda. -- This. And the fact that we're obviously a coalition of disparate policy interests, whereas the Left has unified according to identity politics, and consistent policies be damned. This frees up their leadership to do and say anything in order to achieve their aims, whereas our guys have to please people on opposite ends of the spectrum. Even if we had leadership that was competent and up to the task, that would be an extremely tall order. And then factor in that they have to fight the media.

196 For the GOP/Third Party to prosper, it will need to project real strength. The only way that can be achieved is via a paramilitary force. We need to project the capability for violent action to protect our factions. Irish independence: needed the bad old IRA.

197 154  A quick collapse won't change the minds of 100 million.  It will just scare the shit out of them and weld them more closely to the Free Shit Party.  That's why I think Obama actually wants to go over the fiscal cliff.  He thinks he'll have more money to give to his friends (because he doesn't understand economics), the millions who are thrown out of work will stampede to the Dems (>70% of unemployed voted for Bamster), and the Repubs will take all the blame for the coming Depression.  Win-Win-Win for him!

I figure the only upside of the coming Chaos is that it could very well lead to the deaths of millions of the Free Shit coalition through starvation, collapse of the health care system in cities, and nuclear strikes from Iran and the Norks.

Not something I really wish for (I have a brother living in NVA), but there's nothing we can do to stop it so it's best to be prepared.

198 Cannot fold on immigration

199 Actually, I'll agree about giving up abortion, and gay marriage (seriously, what? 0.01% of the population will engage it so who cares).

200 You can tell who Democrats fear the most by who they demonize the most: Palin, Cain, ...

201

AP exit polls say White Women went for romney by 6, Young Whites by 7. Minorities hurt us, not young people.

Soothsayer is Right, Boehner will not cave, he knows he loses the gavel if he does. He is playing a game with Obama. He came out quick to look like he was willing deal, and forced Obama's hand. As usual Obama played class warfare. Advantage Boehner

202 @183 - Let's look at the Schiavo incident.

It was a family issue.   To the extent that there was a dispute between family members, it was up to a local court to decide.  End full stop.

For GOP legislators in DC to stick their noses into this was the stupidest thing imaginable.  For every one voter presumably like yourself who wanted Federal power exerted in this matter, fifty thought the GOP was proving once again that it couldn't be trusted in power.

203

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at November 10, 2012 03:49 PM (YMqWj)

Excellent point. Deserves input.

My problem? I don't have enough and what I've got, I'd like to upgrade!

They're kinda like tattoos. One leads to a few more, and more thought put into each one subsequently gotten.

204 Abortion may not be a high priority here but the day the GOP stops being the pro-life party, you can shut the doors because evangelicals and conservative Catholics are outta here.

Yeah, I know the libertarians tell us we will have broader appeal if we drop the social issues like abortion and gay marriage.  They've been singing that song for decades.  How many votes did Gary Johnson get, again?  Just over a million, just under 1% - the 2nd best showing for an LP candidate ever (Ed Clark's solid 1% in 1980 being 1st).  No other LP candidate, including one Ron Paul, ever even cracked the 0.5% barrier.

So we might gain a million votes, and lose 25 million.  Sounds like a great plan.

205 For God's sake drop abortion already! It is what it is. And for all the conservatives on here saying " but what about parental notification??? Are you kidding? So you are " conservative" but you need the government to keep your daughter honest! OH. MY. GOD. If your daughter gets pregnant and then lies to youu about it, YOU have issues YOU need to deal with yourself. Llije, I don't know...learning how to effing parent!

206 "Also, if the evangelicals are such a powerful voting bloc, why wasn't Huckabee the guy in 08 or Santorum in 2012?" Anchors, this evangelical didn't like Huckabee or Santorum as presidential nominees. I want someone who seems to understand the proper role of government.

207 If we can't even afford our own welfare state, dear God, we certainly can't afford our own AND Mexico/CA's welfare states, eagerly designed and hosted by us, as well.

Posted by: Peter at November 10, 2012 03:52 PM (9FQ7y)

That's Europe in a nutshell. Britians national party is considered right wing but it isn't. It's left wing unions who are trying to make sure they keep their share of the welfare state.

208 I think that the union thugs on the ground put Obama over the top. It's been days and I'm still sick about this loss. I saw all the crowds for Mitt and believed he had a good chance. I will never put up another yard sign, last time I had winner was Scott Brown in 2009. I had four losers up in 2008 and two losers up this year. Did atone see the press conference with Warren and Deval Patrick? She kept making him answer questions. It I wasn't stuck with her for six years I would have laughed. I am hoping TFG will pick Lurch Kerry as SOS to replace Hillary, then the MA legislature can get to work to change the law so it's back to a gubernatorial appointment instead of an appt until a special election can be held. This state sucks!

209 Anybody have info on the McIntyre-Rouzer recount in the NC-7?

210 Yeah I thought about that, then I thought so letting a full throated marxist win is the answer? I don't know anyone who thinks like that. Posted by: robtr at November 10, 2012 03:44 PM (rTgOf) 18-1 is one. He was not alone.

211

Posted by: JEM at November 10, 2012 03:54 PM (o+SC1)

Absolutely.

Aren't there nine basic voting blocs? I agree with a lot more on the GOP side, for sure. But some of it sure is horseshit.

I have to look up the nine bloc thing. BRB.

212 We should ensure the Dems nominate a woman candidate in 2016. I think we should launch a draft Warren campaign... I don't see Hispanics voting for a woman president.

213 Why can't we flank the Democrats and end the drug war, and bring our boys back home?

214 Adjoran, I think this is the first time you made a comment without calling everyone stupid. Good for you. Good points, as well.

215

Posted by: Comrade Soona at November 10, 2012 03:53 PM (mUr1V)

__

Donks at least understand that when their candidates pose as moderates and fiscal conservatives, it's just a tactic so they don't get all elevnty!!!@! butthurt about it. They just keep focussed on hating on the rethugglkikkkans and getting to the polls to vote four or six times.

216 And, not to be a turd in the punchbowl, because this was a great post, but that was no hurricane.  That was a very close election.  Which was lost by the fucktards on "our" side who couldn't be bothered to get off their fat, sanctimonious asses and go vote.  If blame is going to be laid, I say it goes there.  2 million less voted for Romney than voted for that shitbird McCain?  I would cheerfully bludgeon those 2 million assholes.  One by one.

217 If we had a GOP with any balls they would literally not do shit on anything. Become the Harry Reid of the House, submit nothing, pass nothing, until the Dems and Obama pass their shit in the Senate....and then...wait for it....go even further. They want to increase taxes on the wealthy? Say oh thats not enough, we think Barbara Boxer's plan to raise them would be better. Raise them to 200% of their income. Oh they think that Obama care should pay for Abortions? Well then say no we agree with Cynthia McKinneys plan to actually pay for entire abortion clinics in Catholic Hospitals. Fuck it and fuck them right in the ass. BTW we really do need to start taxing the fuck outa the tech sector. They all vote for Obama, sit on their ass all day, and sneer down at the rest of the country from their mighty perches in NY and DC working on fat Government contracts or Tech companies. Fuck em, tax all tech companies at 60% and force them to provide all their workers with a cadillac health plan that covers abortion, sex changes, and fucking breast implants.

218 Yea, okay, but make sure you ask first. I have many relatives who are die hard Conservatives who wait tables. Good point. So, I guess you could ask if they voted for Obama. Or just do a let it burn tipping strategy. Being stuck here in blue ass CT I am sure most young women voted for Obama. I'm thinking of doing some business cards sized cards that I will put in tip jars (like the kind on the counters of Dunkin Donuts, Five Guys, etc.) that say "I would have given you a tip, but the Obama economy is crushing me" They will get the message, and not getting tips make them feel it a bit. I will make me feel better anyway.

219 And why would we drop abortion? Did we stop caring about human life? I understand the idea that we should maybe slow-play it vs economic issues because Roe v Wade mean it's moot, but still.

220 "It was a family issue. To the extent that there was a dispute between family members, it was up to a local court to decide. End full stop.

For GOP legislators in DC to stick their noses into this was the stupidest thing imaginable. For every one voter presumably like yourself who wanted Federal power exerted in this matter, fifty thought the GOP was proving once again that it couldn't be trusted in power.

Posted by: JEM at November 10, 2012 03:54 PM (o+SC1)"

The horrible notion that the Federal government starts preventing people from being murdered.  Where does it stop if they start doing that??

I can see why people would much rather have the Democrat alternative.

221 Where's the "I Don't Care" choices? Shitty poll.

222 At this point, frankly, I think the GOP needs to get out there and do some serious populist potbanging.

Having Romney as our candidate stole one very useful line of attack that a Perry or a Paul Ryan could have used: that the country's being run into the ground by a bunch of Ivy League academics with no practical experience.

Run against 'The Harvards'.  Yes, really.

223 So West lost the recount? Crap.

224
Hey, here's one bright spot about abortion.

Follow my reasoning here.

Obamacare will, pretty much by definition, result in a decline in the quality of medical care, and the safety of medical procedures. There will be wage and price controls; there will have to be. Corners will be cut. Cheaper methods and supplies will be used. Good doctors will get out. Quacks will stay in.

Ineptly performed abortions lead quite frequently to permanent inability to bear children. Uteruses that have been scarred and infected stop working. Abortions, like any other medical procedure, will become more dangerous and unreliable under an Obamacare regime.

Liberals are by definition much more likely to end up resorting to abortion. They're more promiscuous. They're more reckless. They have short attention spans that lead to contraceptive failure. And they have no moral qualms about the procedure.

Extrapolate that trend, and what do you end up with?

In the long term, liberals being outreproduced.

If conservatives have more kids, consistently, and if conservatives are able to keep their kids free from the liberal cultural morass (here's a gently whispered hint: HOMESCHOOLING!), that math starts looking better in the out years.

225

Over the past couple of years, I have been talking with both conservatives, liberals, and nonpartisans about the GOP and politics and certain political candidates.Here are the results. Remind you, these are not my opinions, but the opinions of others.

1. Bachmann - One person liked her because she was new blood, another person called her Palin 2.0. The Obama supporter that liked her was also a fan of Duncan Hunter.

2. Romney - Old blood, Rich guy, maybe decent, better than Obama. Men tend to view him more negatively. Ex Navy O2, pro-Reagan, pro-McCain I used to work with wife voted for Obama, he voted for Goode. He could not stand Romney.

3. Palin - No support whatsoever. Even from Tea Partiers, she is not liked. Some one called her an airhead and most cannot stand her voice, and cannot stand to see her on TV. The only guy I know who would support her was Scotish Engineer I met working in Asia. Another guy from Maryland said she was a bitty who should go away. Women like her less. My sister asked me why she muffed the Katie Curic interview.

4. Ron Paul - An asian 25 year old young lady with whom I work loved him and she isnÂ’t a pothead. She is a Christian, has very positive view of him. When I explained his Foreign policy views to her, she seemed to understand but no less detered; One guy who is in his mid 30s, views him positive, pro-life, pro-economy antiwar. He calls the mainstream GOP too pro-war too pro-israel.

5. Chris Christie - A couple I know who has a house in NJ cannot wait to vote for him. They also had a favorable view of Ron Paul. The Ron Paul supporter who is in his mid 30s called him a bluestate asshole.

6. Newt Gingrich, Clintons, and Bushs - Old Bloods that they want no part of them. Ron Paul supporter in his mid 30s called Newt a douche bag.

7. Rick Santorum - Male Palin. No support whatsoever, except from Mark Levin. One person said he was a rah rah boy for the GOP.

8. Mike Huckabee -A black guy I know who voted for Obama only because he said his grandfather would disown if he did not, likes Mike Huckabee, and says he would vote for him. Likes the Fair tax idea.

9. Herman Cain - Hispanic guy from CA I met on a jobsite said he liked Cain until he found out he was cheating on his wife.

10. Rick Perry - Ex Army Colonel I used to work with likes him, as does the Ron Paul guy in his mid 30s.

The general opinion, right or wrong of the GOP

1. Interested in old blood only.
2. The GOP gets high marks for Economy, low marks for foreign policy.
3. Reagan is still liked, even by most Obama voters
4. Ron Paul still has a favorable view among the people with whom I talked.
5. Palin and Santorum: Palin is disliked, not too many people care about Santorum.

Bottom line

1. The GOP needs a male figure, masculine figure, who talks like a man.
2. New blood.
3. With a Reaganesque No war Foreign Policy.
4. Pro growth economic policy.

The answer:

Rep. Tom McClintock (R-CA4) for President 2016 and Ted Cruz

226 5 If they fold on immigration, it will be the end of the Republican party.



FTFY

227

Carol, try living in Illinois. We lost 5 House Seats, Dems got supermajorites in Legislature, and we have the worst economy, and a political mafia in Chicago.

To add insult ot injury, we got a Republican into the US seante in 2010, and he had a stroke. He is recovering, Kirk, but he cannot fight the Dems

228

List of Demands is published in the media. 

Posted by: wheatie at November 10, 2012 03:49 PM (ICEh3)

 

 

----------------------------------------

 

 

Now, see,  right there is where your plan falls apart. 

229 "I'll add this about the abortion issue -- our side cannot continue being the side that doesn't really like it but also doesn't really want to outlaw it completely. " That's a good point. If you're going to have it in the platform you have to be willing to carry through. The "wink wink nudge nudge" stuff just makes us look like hypocrites. I could say the same thing about fiscal conservatism, too. The fact is the Iraq war wasn't paid for, and both NCLB and Medicare part D were tacked right on to the deficit when the Republicans controlled the whole shebang. Our credibility on fiscal matters went right out the window in the early 2000s and left us unable to exploit that avenue when the Democrats passed Obamacare.

230

Posted by: i like anchors 2012 at November 10, 2012 03:49 PM (LCZ3l)

 

Its a judicial issue so its one for the long game. And I actually consider Scalia, Thomas and Alito to be the kind of dents we need.

 

I didnt vote for Huckabee or Santorum myself, despite being pro-life. Single issue campaigns and candidates are a bad idea in general, no matter if its on social or economic issues.

 

Willard just showed us how successful a campaign is that practices culture war and social issue neutrality. And I remember that we were winning in 2004 because the most important issue was "moral values". And I think I remember that evangelicals won us Ohio back then. Care to repeat that Willard experience?

231 Christmasghose, perhaps you are unaware of the exploitation that goes on in the abortion industry. Abortion providers want women to believe that abortion is the only solution to their problem.

232

 

If I hear one more talking head or Gop politician say latinos should be a "natural constituency" for Republicans just because they're predominantly Catholic and socially conservative i will puke.The Catholic Church in Latin America is very left wing and authoritarian and latinos are no longer all that socially conservative they vote in favor of gay marriage they are having a greater percentage of abortians and many of their children are being born out of wedlock

233
The good news is I don't know that the GOP has anybody for 2016 whose "turn" it is.  That primary was stupid, the rep establishment said it was going to be Romney well before Iowa and that's what it was.

234 Give up abortion and the left will turn their attention to euthanasia. Then after they get that, it will be forced euthanasia for the terminally ill and so on. Posted by: slatz at November 10, 2012 03:48 PM (fAVBA) They already did that. It is called The Affordable Care Act.

235

Posted by: Christmasghost at November 10, 2012 03:55 PM (CkK+I)

I see your point, and it is one hell of a good point. But  practiced and motivated   manipulators are cunningly  persuasive and  powerful enough  not  dare  to take lightly. Think altar boys and other molestation victims.

Hell, look at this election's results! Plenty of "adults" voting in a way we all concure was foolish, regardless of our stances on some of the "small" stuff.

236 " Also, if the evangelicals are such a powerful voting bloc, why wasn't Huckabee the guy in 08 or Santorum in 2012?"


Huckabee pardoned over a thousand people and didn't run.


Santorum was a guy who lost an election.

237

Posted by: Christmasghost at November 10, 2012 03:55 PM (CkK+I)

___

It's not a matter of keeping a daughter honest, it's a question of a young woman, possibly pre-teen undergoing a serious surgical procedure without her mom or dad's consent. Not to mention that a future member of the family is being offed, maybe mom or dad or uncle or aunt might have some other non-destructive options to offer the daughter?

 

A surgical abortion ain't exactly as easy as getting a pimple popped.

238 So West lost the recount? Crap.

If by "lost," you mean "had it stolen," then, yes.  That sucks.

And, hell yeah, Tom McClintock would make an absolutely outstanding president.  I've been a fan for many, many years.  Love the guy!

239 Over My Dead Body:  All of the above.

240 Perdogg , we need a nominee who takes a Swing state off the table in 2016.

241

Posted by: Mindy at November 10, 2012 03:59 PM (6jLT3)

 

This. Plus sex crimes against minors.

242 At this point, frankly, I think the GOP needs to get out there and do some serious populist potbanging.

Having Romney as our candidate stole one very useful line of attack that a Perry or a Paul Ryan could have used: that the country's being run into the ground by a bunch of Ivy League academics with no practical experience.

Run against 'The Harvards'. Yes, really.

Posted by: JEM at November 10, 2012 03:58 PM (o+SC1)

I agree with this, there is way to be free market AND populist. Considering all the handouts the past four years, we could have easily been the anti-bailout party but we weren't.

243 So we might gain a million votes, and lose 25 million. Sounds like a great plan.

Posted by: Adjoran at November 10, 2012 03:55 PM (ZHQvg)

 

 

So you are saying 25 million voters are single issue abortion voters. That's it, all they care about?  I don't beleive that and I also don't beleive you have to stop being pro life. I think there is a lot of ground though between telling a 14 year old that has been raped that she has to have the rapist baby and stopping late term abortions.

244 NO RETREAT-NO SURRENDER!

245 @210

I think of that group as the pre - emptive "Let it burn" people. Forefathers of the L.I.B. movement.

I voted (half heartedly) but I believe that as some have said, that America slit it's wrists  in 2008. The rest is just the body flopping around in the tub.  

246 What do you tell you 13, 14 year old son about sex? Find a nice boy to try anal with?

247 The Catholic Church in Latin America is very left wing

The Catholic Church right here in the USA is very left wing.  Insanely so.  And they want nothing more than uninhibited illegal immigration because those are the people who are going to church and crankin' out more Catholics by the fuckin' bazillions.  In many ways, I have no further use for the Catholic church, although I have no disrespect for Catholic morons, so don't even go there.

248

Do not fret over any who lost Races in the House by less that 3% in 2012. They all will run in 2014 and win. They have instant name ID and make great candidates.

West, Mia Love, Bob Dold etc...

249 We need to close the border of WI and IL on election day to keep the Chicago folks from voting there.

250 Carol, try living in Illinois. We lost 5 House Seats, Dems got supermajorites in Legislature, and we have the worst economy, and a political mafia in Chicago. Race ya to the bottom! Supermajority in Sacramento, too. To the victor goes the first bailout.

251 Only way to reverse the decline is a wake up call. Vote present, let them fully enact their agenda and then make them own it. That's the only shot we have from where I sit.

Posted by: josh at November 10, 2012 03:11 PM (rWb+7)

----------

That's where I'm at too.  Abstain, and let them name it, claim it, and hang because of it.

252

 

Pretty sure the social justice movement was born in Latin America wasn't it?

253 The path we're on, do you see it? The Left wants population control. They want China's birthrate policy. That's your "burn" and what you'll get if we just rollover and allow the Democrats to run amok.

254 So you are saying 25 million voters are single issue abortion voters. That's it, all they care about? I don't beleive that and I also don't beleive you have to stop being pro life. I think there is a lot of ground though between telling a 14 year old that has been raped that she has to have the rapist baby and stopping late term abortions. Posted by: robtr at November 10, 2012 04:02 PM (rTgOf) I know a number of people who would flip if abortion was dropped. Plenty of Christians simply can't vote Democrat because of their pro-abortion plank. It's facts, sorry.

255 Everybody sitting around bitching about why "the GOP" does this or why don't they do that ... waiting for "somebody to do something".  That isn't how you change things.  Find your local county GOP committee.  JOIN IT as a full dues paying member (my county committee is $35/year).  Find your local taxpayers association, JOIN IT as a full dues paying member ($25 a year for mine county's taxpayers association).

Then once you are a member, you can actually vote on what goes on inside the party.  Sitting around on the sidelines bitching about things doesn't get anything done.  Join your local county committee.  Volunteer.  Vote on internal decisions.  Find other local groups that have issue overlaps such as maybe a local Freedom 21 (anti Agenda 21 group) group or any group on an issue that overlaps and form coalitions.  See that your local party website is actually up to date and doesn't carry information that is a year old (like mine does). 

We don't need to form another party.  By forming another party you are asking people to do what they have NOT done with the party they ALREADY have.  You are asking them to get involved, donate their time and money to move things in a direction they want but they can do that with the party they already have if they would simply join it and take part in things.

256 246 What do you tell you 13, 14 year old son about sex? Find a nice boy to try anal with? Posted by: nip at November 10, 2012 04:02 PM (11Tdq) jimi ray....izzat you?

257 It's not just abortion that's the issue. It's the Left's constant pushing of the envelope.

YES.  If we cave on abortion and gay marriage, the left will next demand euthanasia and polygamy.

It just doesn't end with them.

258 "'I would have given you a tip, but the Obama economy is crushing me' They will get the message, and not getting tips make them feel it a bit. " Redman Bluestate, have you thought that the message they might get is that those nasty, vindictive Republicans hate them?

259 The problem is not platform. It's leadership decisions. The GOP needs to fight. Hard. Constantly. Every opponent must be attacked and destroyed. Dems are Babby Killers. They target black and female babies with abortion. None of their ideas are worth considering. Any time a Dem speaks the reply must be, "you're a baby killer", or some other attack. Delegitimize your opponent at every opportunity. Politics isn't fair. We need to get the candy asses out of leadership, and never stop attacking. Personal attacks are better. Every senate campaign should be about "how Sid Harry Reid get so rich?" and tar every Dem senator with Reid's stink.

260 """a Christian non-wealthy candidate would've won this thing."""

"Yeah, her name was Sarah Palin. She didn't win."

The wise elder party establishment said that if Palin were allowed to run in '12, it would be a disaster. They had begun to quietly poison the well against her even before the 2008 polls closed. There were conversations with the state party bosses and the big donors, all on the subject of keeping her out and quiet.

If Palin got in, and got the 2012 nomination, said the wise elders, we would not only lose the Presidential race, but the downticket undertow would likely mean that we'd lose the opportunity to flip the Senate. Might even lose Senate seats, in a year when the Dems were on defense.

Well! I'm sure we can all agree it's a good thing THAT didn't happen.

Thank goodness we have wise party elders looking out for this stuff.

261 We need to close the border of WI and IL on election day to keep the Chicago folks from voting there.

Posted by: Redman Bluestate at November 10, 2012 04:03 PM (sRIFP)

---------

We have a Republican governor, a Republican legislature and we passed Voter ID.  But it doesn't matter.  Why?  Lawlessness in the person of leftist Madison judges who just issue injunctions against anything we pass.  They stop everything we do, and they stop it for the whole state.

Men of Lawlessness. 

2 Thessalonians 2 .

262 Obamacare. Damn. Any hope now of ever getting rid of it? I wonder how John Roberts is feeling about himself these days.

263  Why can't we flank the Democrats and end the drug war, and bring our boys back home?

Posted by: HoboJerky, profit of DOOM! at November 10, 2012 03:57 PM (fCMdQ)

 

 

----------------------------------------------

 

 

You want to legalize drugs?  And you think that those drug addicts are going vote against their welfare?   Because if you want to imagine even more of an   entitlement mentality  in the US population, get more people addicted to drugs.

 

Yeah, that's the ticket out of our mess. 

264 @ So you are saying 25 million voters are single issue abortion voters

You guys will not ever get it.

For some people abortion is not an "issue"!

Thought experiment:

Lefty scientist says circumcision prevents cervical cancer.
Obama passes an EO requiring all males to be circumcised.

Is that a "SINGLE ISSUE" for you?

265 Yeah, give them abortion. Let them die off at their own hands, hopefully faster than they can repopulate their ranks with the illegals. Unfortunately, the Evangelicals will raise Holy Hell (literally) and they are a pretty big chunk of us. Even if you reasoned with them about the above, an innocent life unborn is still that. After they get turned into pod people by age 7 is another story entirely.

266 Posted by: Jaylord at November 10, 2012 03:53 PM (Y6qC4) Agree. Been saying it all along, a fiscal collapse really doesn't hurt Obama voters on the lower end of the financial spectrum, and the wealthy one in Hollywood probably won't feel it, either. A big ol whoppin terrorist attack might, or a few more natural disasters, but I suspect that Dear Leaders complete lack of competency will always be blame don something/someone else. The media is the actual devil in all this.

267 @183 - Let's look at the Schiavo incident. It was a family issue. To the extent that there was a dispute between family members, it was up to a local court to decide. End full stop. For GOP legislators in DC to stick their noses into this was the stupidest thing imaginable. For every one voter presumably like yourself who wanted Federal power exerted in this matter, fifty thought the GOP was proving once again that it couldn't be trusted in power. Posted by: JEM at November 10, 2012 03:54 PM (o+SC1) The Judicial Branch of the Government of Florida ordered a women be starved to death. Why? Her cheating greedy husband wanted to get on with his life.

268
BTW, the f'ing media that tries to tell us the type of party we should have can blow me.

Go tell the dems what they should do ya bastards.

269 Find your local county GOP committee. JOIN IT

First, that is exactly what the paultards are doing.  It's a concerted, coordinated effort and they may just succeed.  Second, I have had dealings with GOP committee types and, well, if you can stand 'em for more than 12 minutes without wanting to blow your fuckin' brains out, bless your heart.

270 mark my words in the next few months a lawsuit will be filed by a transgender who was rejected by the military recruiters

271

 

the reason we lost is that democrats will get out and vote even if their candidate was a convicted child molestor just so a republican isn't in the oval office,we on the other hand act like spoiled little bitches and stay home if our guy isn't exactly what we were looking for

272 I know a number of people who would flip if abortion was dropped. Plenty of Christians simply can't vote Democrat because of their pro-abortion plank. It's facts, sorry.

Posted by: HoboJerky, profit of DOOM! at November 10, 2012 04:03 PM (fCMdQ)

 

 

So you are saying they are really liberals except for abortion? Well I don't know what to say about that except that maybe there are people who are really conservative except for our extreme party platform on abortion. I don't know that though.

273 @220 - First off, her brain was an empty walnut shell.  There was nothing left. 

Secondly, as I said before, this was not a Federal issue.  States deal with life and death matters all the time.  And for the GOP to advocate for a smaller Federal government - oh, except for when Biblical precepts are involved - is just plain ugly and stupid. 

Abortion should be a state issue too.   You can make the case that it's an evil, but I believe it's a lesser evil than the extension of Federal authority necessary to prohibit it.  Or to require its availability, but that genie got out of the bottle four decades ago and we haven't had much luck getting it back in.

274 remember after 2004 the exit polls showed values were the thing?

So what was the thing this time?  the economy.

Romney failed because people still blames bush AND they thought things were getting better.

Stop recriminations until we know the facts.

and focus on voter fraud and recounts.

275
We don't even know that the exit polls were accurate or whether they even said what they are telling us they said or just made up by the same media.

Exit polls have a high degree of bullshit.

276

An argument can be made for letting the Dems have what the Dems want for a while. They want to raise taxes in the middle of what Obama himself calls, "The Great Recession"? Okay then. But make sure they get full credit for it. Play some ju-jitsu, redirect their thrusts to the point they stagger themselves. One thing is for certain: the American people are not going to be happy about the Bush tax cuts evaporating. The economy won't either. The Dems say things will go back to just like the Clinton era since we'll have Clinton era taxes, what's the problem? Okay grant them that thesis and then call them on it when the balanced budget does not arrive, instead we've got broad misery. And that misery is the problem: can you really do that to people? Can you really abandon them for a political point? If those tax cuts  go away people are going to be hurt, personally. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition. If you truly believe that Obama's positions are poison, and you are right about it, too, you have the following problem: The people just elected him president. They believe it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Which way are you going to stick your neck out?

277 258 "'I would have given you a tip, but the Obama economy is crushing me' They will get the message, and not getting tips make them feel it a bit. " If you ask them who they voted for then you are right. Not asking and just not tipping doesn't make it coming from a Republican. The card could even say, ... but the Obama economy is hurting my business".

278 Peaches, you are so right about the Lefty Cathholic Church. Maybe we just have the CA perspective, but other than abortion and gay marriage, they have been spouting socialist propaganda and Social Justice for decades.

279 Yes, some people do vote based merely on social issues...sadly. There are lots of people out there who don't understand economic issues and don't *want* to understand economic issues. Even my own sister, who is conservative and very very smart , gets a look of fear in her eye when I mention 'capital gains taxes' or 'IRA.' She doesn't like to think about it b/c the whole thing is confusing and overwhelming to her. Think of being like that, but liberal, and you have your answer as to why Obama won.

280 It was a family issue. To the extent that there was a dispute between family members, it was up to a local court to decide. End full stop. For GOP legislators in DC to stick their noses into this was the stupidest thing imaginable. For every one voter presumably like yourself who wanted Federal power exerted in this matter, fifty thought the GOP was proving once again that it couldn't be trusted in power. Posted by: JEM at November 10, 2012 03:54 PM (o+SC1) Your listening to the media spin on the case. Her parents asked Santorum, their Senator, to go fight on her behalf. They were more than willing to take care of her for her husband and that wasn't good enough for him. The issue wasn't allowing her to be taken off life support, it was being court ordered denied food or water because a bunch of brain dead imbeciles don't understand that a person with a severely impaired brain is still a person.

281 @267 - fine, like I said, it's a state issue.

And in the end it was a non-issue, as she WAS brain-dead.

282 Have I mentioned Romney is a shitty candidate that only gave us NC?

283 Pretty sure the social justice movement was born in Latin America wasn't it?

Posted by: kj at November 10, 2012 04:03 PM (AW9md)

 

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

 

Nope.  Marx, Lenin, Trotski(y?) and a host of other europeans.

284 "The Catholic Church right here in the USA is very left wing. " Yep. The Vatican has been slapping down clergy that get too far off the reservation, but the reality is the only overlap between the church hierarchy and the Republican party is abortion. And the lay people don't seem to care that much about abortion, either, since they keep voting Democrat.

285 Taxes. I read that 8 of the top 10 wealthiest counties in the U.S. Voted Dem. I say give them what they voted for, good and hard. I still think that will throw us into a long term recession, but that should ensure a different outcome next election. Amnesty and guns are hills to die on.

286 We do know that the exit polls were accurate. Their job is to predict a result. They predicted one, and it happened. Therefore they did their job.

287

Posted by: Mindy at November 10, 2012 03:55 PM (6jLT3)

Me too.

 

 

288

Abortions, like any other medical procedure, will become more dangerous and unreliable under an Obamacare regime.

___

California has already OK'd midwives and nurses to do abortions. Up til now the lowest performing med school graduates went into the "specialty". Now that's changed, they're going into boob jobs,botoxing, and lipo. A lot more lucrative with none of the drama of abortioneering.

 

So Cali had to press the nurses and midwives into action. Which I find really questionable, since I was always of the impression that midwives always went for the most natural solution.

289 The Judicial Branch of the Government of Florida ordered a women be starved to death.

Why? Her cheating greedy husband wanted to get on with his life.

Posted by: eman at November 10, 2012 04:07 PM (sRus3)

 

 

Since we are the party of personal responsibility maybe we could each take 5 minutes out of our busy lives of tweeting and commenting on blogs and go to legal zoon and do a living will so that does't happen.

290

1.   Investigate and prosecute those who committed voter fraud.

2.   FIGHT for positive voter ID laws in every state.

3.   DO NOT compromise on Conservative values.  What good is it going to do to become leftist-light.  This makes no sense.  Say we do shift left  and we actually win an election, then what?  Then we've got  people in office who are RINOs and will do nothing to turn this country around.

Also, we talk about the blame America first crowd, but many on the right are no better.  Many are becoming the "blame Conservatives first"  crowd.   "Oh why, oh why, do they hate us so much?  Why can't we win?"  Well screw that mindset.  I'm not going to become more like them just to win their approval.   Is this what we teach our kids -  do whatever the "in crowd" wants so you can be popular? 

291 262 Obamacare. Damn. Any hope now of ever getting rid of it? I wonder how John Roberts is feeling about himself these days. Posted by: OCD con at November 10, 2012 04:06 PM (uUlWl) The conventional wisdom is once an entitlement is passed and gets its roots in the ground, it's over. It becomes part of life and people will never give it up. Hence the word "entitlement." But the flip side is Obamacare, unlike say Social Security or even Medicare is not money in the bank at the end of the month. It will quite literally be death and taxes. When someone is in agony and needs a knee replacement and is told they will have to wait 2 years, or when someone's father needs a bypass and they say 'fuck you, he's too old, not worth it, stock up on Anacin,' then I would say the prospects for repeal are quite good. Then again, National Health in the UK has been around for decades with all the pain and misery and the Brits cannot shake it. Even the Iron Lady Thatcher couldn't get rid of it. Then again, maybe it's cultural with them. No matter what anyone says, we are going to have to try come 2016. Unless our ticket is Bush-Christie. And even if we win it will be "the law of the land." NB: Boehner is a fucking dangerous Quisling.

292 "The Left wants population control. They want China's birthrate policy."

Uh, no, they don't.

The Left's position is, "Have all the kids you want! Especially if you are poor, illiterate and unskilled, and will never be able to feed those kids on your own. More fodder for the cradle to grave welfare state. More voters and power for us."

I caught a piece on the news about a woman in the projects who had cranked out, if I am remembering correctly, SIXTEEN kids, by fourteen different fathers, er, sperm donors. None of the fathers were anywhere in sight. None had ever paid a dime in child support. When it was suggested that she might stop, her response was, "Ah ain't messing up mah body with no birff contol."

If the Left's position were genuinely about population control, welfare moms would be getting mandatory Norplant along with their EBT and WIC and Section 8 benefits.

293 Maybe people stayed home because the LANDSLIDE was predicted and thought we had it in the bag.

294 "telling a 14 year old that has been raped that she has to have the rapist baby " Robtr, as opposed to now, when she is told she has to abort the baby, even though the rape isn't the baby's fault? I'd like to see some protection for rape victims, where doctors can't tell them their only choice is abortion. Yes, the victim could walk out of the doctor's office, but that's difficult to do when she's been traumatized and she's supposed to be able to trust a doctor.

295 @290

I'll get right on it.

296 242  Yes, we need to split the Dem coalition.  The two socio-economic wings of the coalition actually have little in common except their hate of Rethuglikans.  The elite wing says they want higher taxes but they know that Dems like Chuckles Schumer will include plenty of deductions so they aren't hit.  The only ones hit are those evil small businessmen who vote the wrong way.  So we need to push:

25% Entertainers Payroll Tax - targeted at Hollywood and TV types, athletes, authors, etc. Off the top, no deductions.  This one sells itself.

Education Opportunity Tax -  Remove exemption for contributions to college endowments and revoke the tax free status of endowments.  Use the money to fund scholarships for poor students.

At least it would be fun to watch all the screaming from Hollywood and Media and Ivy League elite scumbags that would accompany these proposals

297 "'I would have given you a tip, but the Obama economy is crushing me' Then why are you eating out, fat cat, and are you going to eat that booger in your burger? I'm being facetious, of course, but if I choose to eat out, I play by the rules. I've cut back so damned much, though, not much more to do without hunger setting in.

298 Bottom line we just need to be more aware of who we do business with and who we support if they are not with us when it comes to our country. People could also boycott anything to do with those celebs that campaigned and supported Obama. Not buy cars made by unions. Cancel leftie newspaper subscriptions.

299 Here is what I do know. Conservatism works every time it is tried. Every. Single. Time. From what I've been able to glean, we lost because a shit ton of true conservatives stayed home. That is too bad because I now believe the country is in permanent decline and we are all along for the ride.

300

If we believe ourselves to be the side of smaller and less intrusive government, then we need to put candidates forward who are not only articulate in stating that position, but who actually feel passionately that this is what's best for our nation.

While I do believe that Mitt Romney was a solid candidate, and would have liked to see him as our President, I also recognize that he came across as a man for whom Conservatism was a second language.

In the third debate, Mitt Romney sounded more like George McGovern than Ronald Reagan.

My 2 cents.

301

Pretty sure the social justice movement was born in Latin America wasn't it?

 

Posted by: kj at November 10, 2012 04:03 PM (AW9md)

 

Jonah Goldberg wrwrote about the origins of the notion "social justice" in his latest book and it comes actually from an italian chatholic theologian. Though back then it meant something different and more reasonable.

302 Since we are the party of personal responsibility maybe we could each take 5 minutes out of our busy lives of tweeting and commenting on blogs and goto legal zoonanddo a living will so that does't happen. Posted by: robtr at November 10, 2012 04:12 PM (rTgOf) Who said she was a Republican? Her parents were going to foot the bill, and there was no evidence she wanted to be taken off in that type of situation. Tough circumstance for the husband, but that is what a freaking marriage is about.

303 Tammy!!!!  I don't know about whether it's just CA Catholics or not, I thought a few years ago I heard quite a few stories about them providing "sanctuary" for illegals.  I do know that the bff, who is almost insanely right-wing, has fallen hook, line and sinker for their "immigration" bullshit.  We were discussing my dem boss's posit that the GOP's problem is simply that they failed to court the "hispanic" vote for the last 40 years.  So, the bff is all "well, you are anti-hispanic."  Which pissed my ass off royally.  I am in no fuckin' way anti-anybody.  I simply would like us not to be the only country on God's green earth that, in defiance of our own Constitution, fails to protect the sovereignty of our borders.  This is a smart guy, loads of education, and he has been absolutely fuckin' brainwashed by his Catholicism, full cognitive disconnect on it.

304 284"the reality is the only overlap between the church hierarchy and the Republican party is abortion"
--

Manifestly NOT true.  The Lefties, as usual, are louder and get more attention, though.

305 Schiavo was a simple issue for me. Her re-married husband wanted her dead. Her parents wanted to keep her alive. Her parents were willing to take over care, which they were already doing. All her former husband had to do was walk away. But he insisted on ending her life and taking away a daughter.

306 House Republicans are already beating Boner over the head for not talking with them. Nothing will get done except fake budget battles.


Did I mention Romney is a piece of shit motherfucker?

307 Posted by: Semi-New Moron. at November 10, 2012 04:14 PM (mkb9H)

Don't do that again, 'kay?

308 Sorry.  I was switching to Firefox,  Still learning.

309 so,obama won florida, a state in which romney had convincing 5 point lead, won it by 74K votes???

that don't stink?

310 First off, her brain was an empty walnut shell. There was nothing left.
----------------


She was alive and now she's dead based on  a court order.  She committed no crime, but she was sentenced to die.


By a political office holder.


If that doesn't frighten you, there's something wrong with your thinking processes.

311 301 Internet Explorer 4!  4!

Yikes!

312 Sorry. I was switching to Firefox, Still learning.

Posted by: Semi-New Moron. at November 10, 2012 04:15 PM (mkb9H)

You need to make us all some sammitches now . . . 

313 the reason we lost is that democrats will get out and vote even if their candidate was a convicted child molestor just so a republican isn't in the oval office,we on the other hand act like spoiled little bitches and stay home if our guy isn't exactly what we were looking for

Posted by: kj at November 10, 2012 04:07 PM (AW9md)

 

 

--------------------------------------------

 

 

Once again.  50.6% of our populace have no idea or don't give a damn about ethics or morality.   Let it burn.

314 Semi-New, in to the barrel.

315

 

"'I would have given you a tip, but the Obama economy is crushing me'

 

lol I live in a city where i have not the slightest doubt every single waiter and waitress voted for Obama and i was thinking about leaving something like that

316

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 10, 2012 03:59 PM (kGz1m)

Evangelicals are not a united group. They are not a voting bloc the GOP can count on. This election showed that again. Plenty of evangelicals vote straight D tickets for their own faith based reasons. Not sure why republican voters go ga-ga over candidates like Paul Ryan. His personal beliefs cannot pervade his legislative agenda.   

Reverend Wright, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are "evangelicals" too.

You are over estimating the political  power  of your personal  brand  of evangelism.

317 Pastrami work? With some Toblerone?  I apologize,

318 309 so,obama won florida, a state in which romney had convincing 5 point lead, won it by 74K votes???

that don't stink?

  Evidently Dave in Fl. thinks there was massive cheating but of course he can't prove it. In Virginia he said with 69% of the vote in Romney had a 6 point lead then poof it all came crashing down. Either way we lost and there is no changing it... Four more years...

319 Like a screen door in a submarine, bitches!

320 Posted by: Peaches at November 10, 2012 04:14 PM (kpCLl) Yep. And those darn Catholic Charities groups are the ones dragging Somalian refugees over here by the boatload, and they are some scary, scary people right there.

321 You are over estimating the political power of your personal brand of evangelism.

 

Posted by: i like anchors 2012 at November 10, 2012 04:17 PM (LCZ3l)

 

Im not an evangelical/christian.

322 231,235 and 237.... I'm a 56 year old woman that raised three kids. I do get all your points. Here's my take; Yes kids can be vulnerable..that's why real conservatives believe in real parenting. Which is work. You have to be part Nancy Drew, part 007 and whole heartedly serious as an effin heart attack. I was...and still am. You have to educate your kids about abortion...the real, factual medical risks and costs. Use pictures...and stats. If you are really doing your job as a conservative and parent your daughter will make the right choice. And if not? Guess what? That is their problem. Welcome to life. The real " war on women" in this campaign was that both sides want to act as if women are helpless creatures, that need protection from themselves and their own mistakes and choices. Oh sure...speaking as a woman I can tell you the average woman is about as helpless as a rattlesnake.

323

 

Manifestly NOT true. The Lefties, as usual, are louder and get more attention, though.

 

yeah we overlap on the gay marriage issue too but thats about it.

324 Maybe people stayed home because the LANDSLIDE was predicted and thought we had it in the bag. Posted by: madamex at November 10, 2012 04:13 PM (1zsKV) Yep, and the Dems did everything they could to make it look like that was so. We were conned.

325 Platforms?  Wrong question, Andy.  Platforms are nothing more than wish lists.  If wishes were fishes ...  Party nominees routinely ignore or finesse platform positions.  No one reads platforms or cares what is in them.

Better question:  What reform(s) are necessary for electing a majority consensus candidate during the Republican primary season?

326 315 "'I would have given you a tip, but the Obama economy is crushing me' lol I live in a city where i have not the slightest doubt every single waiter and waitress voted for Obama and i was thinking about leaving something like that They would start getting the message. At minimum we would also be campaigning against the Dems. Maybe open a few eyes. When they don't have extra money for smokes and beer then they will feel it. But, they will have birth control!

327 As for people throwing a fit over pro-lifers who say they'll stay home over the abortion issue, Romney had as moderate a record on this issue as they come and his campaign deemphasized social issues.  BUt they still voted for him, whereas a fair number of Libertarian & Ron Paul types voted Johnson or stayed home.  So who's the real "single-issues" voter?

We're not asking for an explicit pro-life campaign, but if you abandon the issue to the Dems, sorry.

If it weren't for Democrats bringing it up all the time and assholes like Akin playing into the media's hands, we'd be fine.  And I don't want to even put 100% of the blame on Akin or Mourdock.  The media was fishing for this all the way back in January with Stephanopoulos trying to get a clumsy soundbite about banning contraception.  Yes, Akin's nuts, but is he any more so than, say, Cynthia McKinney?  I know we have to deal with the rules as they are, but I think that's a bit too far to drum all the members out of a coalition.

328 "The real " war on women" in this campaign was that both sides want to act as if women are helpless creatures, that need protection from themselves and their own mistakes and choices.

Posted by: Christmasghost at November 10, 2012 04:19 PM"



How did Repubs suggest women are helpless?

329 Okay, gay marriage too. But I can tell you when we were having that fight in CA the church wasn't exactly leading it.

330 we on the other hand act like spoiled little bitches and stay home if our guy isn't exactly what we were looking for

That!  The rest is just a horseshit.  We have have way too many people looking for a hill to die on.  I don't think the pandering helps.  I think a candidate who would get real with them might.  Or not, who knows, but this is not working.  People need to understand that Roe v. Wade is NOT GOING ANYWHERE.  The law is settled on that.  There's no do-over on it.  I'm not taking any position on whether it's good or it's bad, but people who's defining issue is abortion are a problem for conservatives.  You want to make it an issue?  Fine, let's talk about not allowing the federal government to use our tax dollars to fund it.  That is a workable plank.  One I would personally support 100 percent.

331 "Then again, National Health in the UK has been around for decades with all the pain and misery and the Brits cannot shake it. Even the Iron Lady Thatcher couldn't get rid of it. Then again, maybe it's cultural with them."

It is in fact cultural.

Brits are convinced that if the NHS were repealed, they would die in droves in misery.

As they imagine to be the state of affairs in America.

I cannot tell you how many times I have been told -- by people who have often never even been out of the UK -- that "in America, if you go to the emergency department while badly ill, and you can't pay, you'll be taken back outside and left on the curb to die."

And of course I always have to say, well, no, there's actually a federal law called EMTALA which prohibits this, and American emergency rooms provide care to all comers regardless of ability to pay, and that the guy who signed this into law was named Ronald Reagan (which _really_ mindfucks Brit lefties, who have a mental picture of Reagan as being a brutal fascist dictator).

The other cultural thing about Brits and the NHS is that they imagine the quality of care by the NHS to be far better than it actually is in reality. And if you present them with comparative statistics on actual medical outcomes on their system versus ours (or ours as it used to be) they are often incredulous to see how crummy the NHS actually is at delivering patients back to good health.

332

333 The Only Way To Win Is Not To Play.

334

Yep. And those darn Catholic Charities groups are the ones dragging Somalian refugees over here by the boatload,

__

Do you have a link to support? I go to mass every Sunday and this is a new one on me. As far as I know, Catholic Charities doesn't have its own fleet of passenger transport craft.

335 I filled out an exit poll, I was a 57 year old black woman with 13 children, 5 grandchildren making over $250,000/year, hated welfare, a muslim who loved israel, hated obamcare and pbs, and a member of the NRA.

336 They are not a voting bloc the GOP can count on. This election showed that again.

--------------------

79% Romney vs 20% Obama isn't a voting bloc the GOP can count on?  Were you aware that 24% of all votes cast on Tuesday were cast by people who describe themselves as evangelicals?  The next highest voting bloc didn't even come close. Something like 58% I think.  Can't remember but I think those were men making over 50k a year.

So GOP took most of their votes by far from church people and guys who still have jobs.  But mostly church people.

337 334 The Only Way To Win Is Not To Play.

Posted by: boulder hobo at November 10, 2012 04:22 PM (QTHTd)

  Let it burn...

338 Then again, National Health in the UK has been around for decades with all the pain and misery and the Brits cannot shake it. Even the Iron Lady Thatcher couldn't get rid of it. What happens is, the young kids grow up thinking this is normal. It'll happen here, too, no worries. At some point, no one will remember when they had decent healthcare, so no one will be alarmed at having to wait 2 years for anything.

339 "The real " war on women" in this campaign was that both sides want to act as if women are helpless creatures, that need protection from themselves and their own mistakes and choices." As far as I can tell, the "war on women" thing was made from whole cloth by the media. They took a woman who was too cheap to buy her own birth control and turned it into a national story.

340 "'I would have given you a tip, but the Obama economy is crushing me'

lol I live in a city where i have not the slightest doubt every single waiter and waitress voted for Obama and i was thinking about leaving something like that

I would not actually do this (I'm a tipper), but I would have a card printed up saying "Here's your tip:  Next time, vote for the Republican."

341 It's way past time for a new confederacy.

The Red State govs have already drawn the line in the sand with the ACA mandate. Just keep drawing lines...

342 both sides want to act as if women are helpless creatures, that need
protection from themselves and their own mistakes and choices.

That was the Dems, and women supported this plank at at 20% margin.

(I know, I keep saying this.)

343 290 1. Investigate and prosecute those who committed voter fraud. Posted by: Havedash at November 10, 2012 04:12 PM (ToMJU) The majority seem scared shitless of this, and provide many excuses. Even True The Vote seems to only want to dabble around the edges. Or ignore the felonies and do battle over preventative measures until the courts shut them down. I guess the name was a warning sign, anything on the Internet with "real" or "true" or "truth" in the name is BS. Track and publicize reports of fraud. Follow up on them with responsible agencies. Track and follow-up on those charged. Publicize them, make sure legit cases make it through the process. We had publicity over NBPP but it became a side issue and they went right back to it. Voter ID and getting rid of corrupt election judges, publicize the Hell out of the latter. Keep the issue alive. I can't even afford to register an effing website. I can help but I can;t do it. I'm more than a lot disgusted at the right habitually dropping this issue. AT THE LEAST it is a felonious enterprise on a mass scale and we're shrugging. And no, they didn't need to steal millions of votes, flipping a couple hundred thousand would do, across a few states.

344

 

Okay, gay marriage too. But I can tell you when we were having that fight in CA the church wasn't exactly leading it.

 

Yeah they saw the Morman church was out in front on that one a decided to stay quietly in the backgroud

345 339 Then again, National Health in the UK has been around for decades with all the pain and misery and the Brits cannot shake it. Even the Iron Lady Thatcher couldn't get rid of it. They even celebrated it at the opening ceremonies of the Olympics with that giant baby and hospital bed dance fiasco. We were looking at that going WTF.

346

Agree with #166 on abortion - need to find a way to not drop it but not have it blow up in GOP faces.  See Akin and Mourdock - also I believe it did hurt the GOP nationally as I was hearding ads in a state 1/2 across the country linking Romney and the local candidates to Akin and Mourdock.  Keep the others especially voter id - remember PA's law was delayed this year due to judges - we'll never win again until the elections are cleaned up

 

 

347 Posted by: kallisto at November 10, 2012 04:22 PM (jm/9g) I should have been clearer that I am not meaning that all Catholic Charities are bad; my apologies. But I know people who work in New England for Catholic Charities and they deal primarily in Somali refugees. I think they have a program in MN , too.

348 118 "If you want to see civility return to America, it's got to start with you.
Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 10, 2012 03:25 PM (WwR1j)"I'd prefer to see curbstomping return to America, starting with you."

And that is why you guys cant have nice things.

349 Yep. And those darn Catholic Charities groups are the ones dragging Somalian refugees over here by the boatload, and they are some scary, scary people right there.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 10, 2012 04:19 PM (2rMmy)

Tammy, is that snark or is that truth?  It's a new one on me, except for that thing about busloads of 'em being driven around to vote (was that Somalians? the last week is still a bit of a blur).

350
You can believe the exit polls or not, but it would be better to stick to principles.

351 Reverend Wright, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are "evangelicals" too.

-----------

I think your facts aren't too strong.  This is the second statement you've made that I noticed was not quite, er, factual.

Jeremiah Wright is a minister in the United Church of Christ.  The UCC is a mainstream liberal denomination that is in no way related to the evangelical movement.  Not to mention the fact that he preaches a particular brand of theology combining Black Liberation and Nation of Islam.

352 (which _really_ mindfucks Brit lefties, who have a mental picture of Reagan as being a brutal fascist dictator). Posted by: torquewrench at November 10, 2012 04:21 PM (ymG7s) You want to know what else mindfucks Brit lefties? Everything.

353 299 Here is what I do know. Conservatism works every time it is tried. Every. Single. Time. From what I've been able to glean, we lost because a shit ton of true conservatives stayed home. That is too bad because I now believe the country is in permanent decline and we are all along for the ride.

They knew who the SCOAMT was and essentially voted for him anyway. These are the same sanctimonious fools who spent the last six years claiming that we would get another Reagan if only we sat around on the sidelines and complained. I despise them worse than I do SCOAMT voters.

354 Newsweek to GOP: 'You're Old, You're White, You're History!' http://tinyurl.com/apv62r8 Your days are done, GOP white man. In its November issue, Newsweek and writer David Frum want you to know that youÂ’re old, youÂ’re white, and youÂ’re finished. They are preaching to the choir....of three subscribers.

355 abortion - need to find a way to not drop it but not have it blow up in GOP faces. See Akin and Mourdock

---------------


The Right to Life movement agrees with you, at least here in Wisconsin.  They sent out some information on how they are going to attempt to  increase their focus on promoting  female conservative candidates, rather than automatically giving their nod of approval to male candidates who just happen to have pro-life beliefs.  They would like to see some female candidates out there handling the inevitable questions and believe that will cut down on a lot of the 'stoopid'.

356 The politicians like Boehner and Reid don't give a fuck- they have their campaign contributions and speaking gigs and book contracts, plus they seem to get re-elected on a regular basis- they're fine. They'll weather the storm.

And wealthy Hollywood libs don't give a fuck- who gives a fuck if gas is $10 a gallon when you're knocking down $10 million a picture.

The working poor just know they're getting free shit. Long as that gravy train keeps rolling down the track, they don't give a fuck.

So on one end, you have the wealthy, whose money protects them from the bad economy. On the other end are the moochers getting free stuff. In the middle is you and me, getting our pockets picked to pay for it all, and being told less is the new normal.

We're outnumbered. Tipping point, call it what you will. It's here.

Dump everything you have on my position.

Let. It. Burn.

357 Another answer is excise tax.  Excise tax the living heck out of everything.  Tickets?  Clothing? Vehicles? Food? Liquor? Bling?

Excise tax.

358 @330: "but people who's defining issue is abortion are a problem for conservatives"
--
But that' s getting the formulation precisely wrong.  We're part of a coalition where everyone agrees a bit and gives a bit depending upon the stakes raised by the party's platform.  ON the order, what makes an issue "defining" is a reciprocal matter: You accuse social cons of having abortion as a "defining" issue, whereas it seems to me that you're the one who's trying to define a consistent and stalwart voting bloc out of the party and the movement altogether. 

I love Libertarian economic and drug policy, and I want more of it in the GOP, but I ask again, when a bunch of Libertarians vote for a 3rd party, whereas evangelicals support Romney, who's being the single-issue voter and who's playing the spoilsport? 

359

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 10, 2012 04:25 PM (2rMmy)

___

Since the mission of Catholic Charities is to provide comfort and support to the needy, in the spirit of Christ's directive: "Whatsoever you do for the least of these, you do unto Me", it doesn't come as a surprise that they offer services to refugees of any nation. That's a far cry from being the actual agents facilitating emigration from their homeland.

 

I used Catholic Charities services when my mom died. They actually offered a free support group for adults mourning the death of a parent. Those types of support groups aren't easy to come by. Usually they focus on those who have lost children or spouses.

360 Okay, gay marriage too. But I can tell you when we were having that fight in CA the church wasn't exactly leading it.

Yeah they saw the Morman church was out in front on that one a decided to stay quietly in the backgroud

Posted by: kj at November 10, 2012 04:25 PM (AW9md)

The Mormons were entirely blamed for prop 8, to the left it was all their fault. They were protesting at the Mormon temples. I gotta buddy in LAPD, who went out there to make sure nothing happened. He said all the Mormons had to do was bring in all their people who were islanders. Just imagine trying to get by a bunch of Manti Teo's

361 Drop the War on Drugs.  Also drop opposition to gay marriage.

362 On the Catholic discussion:  yes, the united states conference of catholic bishops gets 250 million from the feds for "refugee" and other programs for legals like the somalis and illegals.  But other major church groups are involved, too - the Lutherans, definitely and some others I can't remember.

Never give money to Catholic charities.  They get 2/3 of their funding from the feds.  They are liberal.  I am a catholic - we have some good bishops but most are very cozy with big government. 

363 Better question: What reform(s) are necessary for electing a majority consensus candidate during the Republican primary season?Posted by: mrp

The candidate is pretty much irrelevant if the Left has the MSM shit-cannons in full operation.

Romney was the cleanest, squeakest candidate we will see in our lifetimes.

Those shit-cannons have to be shut off or rendered ineffective in the public's eye.

364 Schiavo was a simple issue for me. Her re-married husband wanted her dead. Her parents wanted to keep her alive. Her parents were willing to take over care, which they were already doing. All her former husband had to do was walk away. But he insisted on ending her life and taking away a daughter. Posted by: soothsayer at November 10, 2012 04:15 PM (jUytm) And the Culture of Death made him a victim and a hero. Sentenced to Death. Charge: Inconvenient to the Plaintiff. Next case.

365

The dye was cast  after Reagan.  Repubs are satanical torturers  and killers.  No amount of political tap-dancing is going to change that now  no matter what we say or do.  This has become a one-party nation.

 

Still too many RINO's,  beltway elitists,  and countryclub repubs in our ranks yet.  Unfortunately,  it's probably too late already to  wait until they retire or die.  The damage is done.

366 Romney was the cleanest, squeakest candidate we will see in our lifetimes.

Those shit-cannons have to be shut off or rendered ineffective in the public's eye.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 10, 2012 04:33 PM (SX6wc)

  Exactly. Instead of it being "It's the economy stupid." It was "It's the media stupid."

367 I suppose I could mention that Romney was originally pro-choice himself, but then again......
 
Reagan was a Democrat before he was a Republican.

368 Posted by: Peaches at November 10, 2012 04:26 PM (kpCLl) I have a friend who works for the Migration & Refugee branch of the Catholic Charities in New Hampshire. Perhaps she has overstated the Church's role in bringing them here, but I know she has mentioned how much they lobby to get them out of Somalia and help them get resettled. Sounds noble on paper and is indeed noble work. All I'm saying is, assimilating is not something they do well.

369 But other major church groups are involved, too - the Lutherans, definitely

------------

The ELCA branch of the Lutherans.  They're kinda the LINO's.

Not to be confused with the Wisconsin Synod Lutherans, who won't even go near a community prayer breakfast because, GOVERNMENT ENTANGLEMENTS. 

Those people are strict.

370 Drop the War on Drugs. Also drop opposition to gay marriage.

Posted by: Revenant at November 10, 2012 04:32 PM (W7GH9)

 

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

 

Fuck off!

371 Reuters is just releasing a Defense Department timeline today of the Benghazi attack. Panetta was not notified of the attack immediately but after it had been going on for -- 50 minutes. http://tinyurl.com/b4fg5bf __________________ Remember the consulate had been attacked before, Obama had initiated the Libya exercise--Operation Odyssey Dawn. The State Department had invested in the Imminent Danger Notification System--and Charlene Lamb said that she was following it in real time from the Security Operations Center at the State Department. But--Leon Panetta is not notified for almost an hour.

372 If we've learned anything in our short history, it's that the Left never stops pushing and pushing their radical agenda.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 10, 2012 03:39 PM (jUytm)

This. Their agenda is not to achieve the stated goal. It is to destroy the institution.

373
The State Department had invested in the Imminent Danger Notification System--and Charlene Lamb said that she was following it in real time from the Security Operations Center at the State Department.

But--Leon Panetta is not notified for almost an hour.

  This is going nowhere... count on it...

374 I don't think you should drop anything from the platform. After what I saw today, I think you should just tell retailers they are going to have to open their doors and let people come and get anything they want for free. The people who voted for Obama don't really care about healthcare, abortions, free everyday food, etc. They want luxury goods. Again, it's their lack of morality that drives them (even though some of them will try to convince you God wants them to seek this kind of 'justice'). There are the widow and orphans who truly need our help for life's necessities (and have been willing to forego the luxuries), and then there's the people who just want the luxury goods because they don't think it's fair that other people might have them.

375 Sentenced to Death. Charge: Inconvenient to the Plaintiff. Next case.

Posted by: eman at November 10, 2012 04:33 PM (sRus3)

---------------

Next cases will be coming quite soon.  It is 2013 yet?  Do you know where your Obamacare is?

376 "1. Investigate and prosecute those who committed voter fraud. " That's a nice idea, but the problem is the people who are benefiting from fraud are the ones who are winning the elections. They say there isn't much evidence of election fraud, and of course that's true, because they've set up a system that mitigates against the existence of evidence but not of fraud. That's why they're fighting voter ID tooth and nail and why it's so important for us to win.

377

 

That's a far cry from being the actual agents facilitating emigration from their homeland.

 

In countries where Christians  are subject to wholsale slaughter by muslim militas they do

378 I'm waiting for the South Korean missionaries to come start converting the utterly lost nation of America.

379 Sentenced to Death. Charge: Inconvenient to the Plaintiff. Next case.

Posted by: eman at November 10, 2012 04:33 PM (sRus3)

 

 

--------------------------------------

 

 

Get used to it.  It's now government policy.

380 And just to be clear, I think the social cons do need to tone it down and play Realpolitik.  There's a solid secular case to be made for the pro-life side, and I would strongly suggest that instead of telling a whole bunch of people that they're bad conservatives and should leave the party so that it can get more votes, we should make the case for a repackage of the pro-life plank.  In other words, if you want to run as a pro-life candidate, you have to be wise about how you present yourself and your religion in public. 

I know that religious people are going to throw a fit about feeling silenced and not able to show their faith, but you know what?  Tough.  If you really care about the pro-life issue more than your own sanctimonious self-image, then pay attention to what works politically and what doesn't, and use that to move the ball down the field for the unborn.  Anything else is gratuitous, unproductive martyrdom.  there is a time and a place for religious activism, and that time and place in this country is not the political arena.  So if you want to be an activist, don't run for office because you will damage your cause.  Or rather, they will find a way to make you damage it regardless of all the caution you take.

381 Not to be confused with the Wisconsin Synod Lutherans, who won't even go near a community prayer breakfast because, GOVERNMENT ENTANGLEMENTS. Those people are strict. Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 10, 2012 04:36 PM (P6QsQ) Oh, mama, that made me laugh. I wonder of it's a clue if synod is in the name? The Missouri Synod also seems to be very strict.

382 Ford, Bush 1, Dole, Bush 2, McCain, Romney. Let's see what did they have in common? Could it be that they were all Rockefeller Country Club RINOs? Naw. That can't be it. Only Rockefeller Country Club RINOs are electable. If America doesn't want the Rockefeller Country Club RINOs, then I don't know what the GOP can do.

383 Jerry obviously not a religious person.

384 I'm waiting for the South Korean missionaries to come start converting the utterly lost nation of America.

Posted by: I think I'll say what I'm thinking and maybe it'll make some sense at November 10, 2012 04:38 PM (W5c4e)

--------------

They're already here.  The United States is now regarded as a mission field by various international congregations.

385 JeremiadBullfrog, I know for a fact that these religious social cons have actually toned it down, held their noses and voted for less than agreeable candidates the last two elections. Why don't the less religious conservatives shut up their convictions (like gay marriage pushing) and perhaps the social, religious cons won't mind joining you a little longer. Without the religious part of our party, there is no GOP.

386 It sounds like fun!  Excise taxes!  Your designer sneakers?  Taxed.  Your second+ home that is not a rental for so many months of the year? Taxed.  Your rental property income? Taxed. Your new earrings? Taxed. Your Netflix download? Taxed. Your new game whether disc or download? Taxed. Advertising time or space? Taxed.

Tax every part of human life, tax it to the hilt.  Your lot more than X% of the size of the house? Taxed.  Square feet of the house a percentage more than the number of family living there? Taxed.  More than the total number of people living there? Taxed.

Whee!  This is fun!

387 387 Jerry obviously not a religious person.
--
If you're referring to me, then you have absolutely no clue. 

388 Never give money to Catholic charities. They get 2/3 of their funding from the feds. They are liberal. I am a catholic - we have some good bishops but most are very cozy with big government. Posted by: chris at November 10, 2012 04:32 PM (VT/WG) And only $140 million comes from parishes. If every Mass attending Catholic was charged a minimum of $200 we'd have 3 billion to spend on charity without the Federal Government dictating what we do with it.

389 A Catholic priest, a Boy Scout leader and a lawyer take some boys out on an adventure trip. On the flight over, there is engine trouble and the plane is about to go down. "We have a problem", says the pilot. "There are only three parachutes!" The Boy Scout leader suggests they give them to the boys. "Screw the boys," shouts the lawyer. "Is there time?" asks the priest.

390 Sentenced to Death. Charge: Inconvenient to the Plaintiff. Next case. Posted by: eman at November 10, 2012 04:33 PM (sRus3) -------------------------------------- Get used to it. It's now government policy. Posted by: Comrade Soona at November 10, 2012 04:38 PM (mUr1V) I know. That's why collapse does frighten me.

391 Sounds noble on paper and is indeed noble work. All I'm saying is, assimilating is not something they do well.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 10, 2012 04:35 PM (2rMmy)

Cripes, no kidding.  I don't actually trust the "noble" motive in most cases.  To me, it's like "low information" helping and the most noble result is allowing them to feel all good about themselves.  Somalia is a lot like stupid, it can't be fixed, and certainly not from New Hampshire. 

392 Truck Monkey, That's gross. I just woke up from a nap, and I'm not in a good mood. I'm a mom to Boy Scouts.

393 In countries where Christians are subject to wholsale slaughter by muslim militas they do Posted by: kj at November 10, 2012 04:38 PM (AW9md) Yes, and that's what I"m talking about. They do not however act very meek or Christian like upon their arrival. I'm sorry I brought it up, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I'm sure there is much good work being done by Catholic Charities, I am just not a fan of importing wild people and turning them loose on society. Also, the refugee branch of CC is the leading voice for the "No Such Things as an Illegal Human" crowd. Very staunch supporters of illegals. Perhaps my experience in a state bordering Mexico means I get the more radical version of Catholic Charities. But again, I am sorry for offending anyone!

394 Plenty of clues.

395 [i[I think the base was looking for a guy who would roll back Obamacare, and Romney just wasn't believable on that score[/i]

People keep saying this. It may be the single stupidest reason I've heard for anyone not to vote for Romney against Obama.

Romney said again and again and again and again and again that he would repeal Obamacare. But these so-called members of the "base," who cared SO MUCH about Obamacare, didn't find Romney "believable"--

So instead, they sat home (or voted 3rd party) and allowed Obama win-- i.e. the 100% absolute PROMISE and CERTAINTY that Obamacare would be FOREVER the law of the land, that's what they went for?

Ugh, ugh, ugh.

I'm so angry at the supposedly, self-described "conservative" non-voters.

396 Oh, mama, that made me laugh. I wonder of it's a clue if synod is in the name? The Missouri Synod also seems to be very strict.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 10, 2012 04:39 PM (2rMmy)

----------

Missouri Synod is pretty strict too, but they are hippie swinger hedonist libertarians compared to the Wisconsin Synod.

Son was in the Wisconsin Synod for a couple of years but when he decided he wanted to be a military chaplain he had to switch over to  Missouri Synod because Wisconsin Synod won't allow their ministers to be commissioned for the Armed Forces because, you guessed it, GOVERNMENT ENTANGLEMENTS!

Speaking as an evangelical on the outside of their church looking in, I think they just might have the right idea afterall.

397 I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. I ran over and said: "Stop. Don't do it." "Why shouldn't I?" he asked. "Well, there's so much to live for!" "Like what?" "Are you religious?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Me too. Are you Christian or Buddhist?" "Christian." "Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?" "Protestant." "Me too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?" "Baptist." "Wow. Me too. Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?" "Baptist Church of God." "Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?" "Reformed Baptist Church of God." "Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?" He said: "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915." I said: "Die, heretic scum," and pushed him off.

398

Libertarians like me support & vote GOP simply because they are the only ones with a chance in hell  of  beating the  tax and spend idiocy  of progressive liberals. 

Did  the far right really  hijack the Tea Party? Or did  the left misrepresent it like the masters of propaganda  and  powerful  tools of the extreme left  they have become?

 

399 "Reagan was a Democrat before he was a Republican." Yeah, but when Reagan was a Democrat the party looked a lot more like today's Republican party than today's Democratic party (except for the segregation part). Romney was pro-abortion until it became politically inconvenient. There was no shift in party center. That's another issue, like Obamacare, where I just couldn't trust Romney. Sure, he may have been officially pro-life, but was that really going to translate into pro-life justices, or were we going to get another GHWB?

400 Something for the handwringers to think about.

LetÂ’s just pretend that the voter results were reversed in the swing states last Tuesday and Romney got those 314,000 votes that made the crucial difference. What would the Dems be saying?

1) TheyÂ’d surely call Americans racist, right off the bat
2) TheyÂ’d probably say that greed won or something like that
3) TheyÂ’d probably say something about defense contractors
4) TheyÂ’d probably say something about cheating
5) TheyÂ’d probably say something we used scare tactics
6) Definitely Benghazi would be all the rage
7) Maybe they'd claima Sandy backlash type thing

Feel free to add

What would we be saying?

1) No doubt that the Dem policies and platform were rejected
2) That theyÂ’re sore losers
3) That weÂ’re sick of the race card
4) That theyÂ’re just mad they didnÂ’t cheat enough or we were better
5) We simply had a superior candidate
6) Our message was an American message
7) Our ground game was better
Probably something relative to energy resources coal/gas
9) Their identity politics was their undoing

Feel free to add.

401 @394

there was a reason that 56 chose to pledge lives, fortunes and sacred honor....

402 Who here has a duaghter? You okay with Democrats deciding that you don't need to be even told that your daughter has an abortion? You okay that your child is being consulted into having an abortion without you knowing about it? She's probably been riding the cock carousel and drinking up a storm since college, so really how is a father going to make a difference by that point? Since it's mostly the Dem side that gets abortions, I say let them have it...fewer moochers wanting free stuff.

403

My new strategy?

Change the R to a D on my voter registration.

I can get away with whatever I want then, because that means I care about others.

Seriously, infiltrate them at the grassroots level.

404 Many non-voters think "both parties are the same". The rest simply don't care enough about the differences to find out otherwise. The average non-voter has no clue what party Nancy Pelosi belongs to or who John Boehner is or which party is for free markets. I'd frankly be shocked if the average voter does. And we're here going over what party platform modifications we need to make. Democrats got it a long time ago. Appeal to the lowest common denominators: tribalism, envy and ignorance.

405 Alex Keaton, That's just it, we need to quit blaming one another. The problem isn't us; the problem is ignorant voters easily swayed by the mainstream media and their own emotions with no education or understanding our country's history or how we operate.

406 And pretty much every Wisconson Synod church runs their own school, K-thru 8, and then they send their kids to feeder High Schools.

Again, right idea.

407 I also think you should give the Democrats everything they want. That'll show 'em. GOP in 2016!!

408 @389:"Without the religious part of our party, there is no GOP."
--

Yes, I know.  that's what I'm saying.  But I'm also saying that in the currently cultural climate that is beyond our control, we need to minimize the potential for gaffes.  And that means not having people out and about testifying like Akin or Santorum or Bachman.  Look at Romney, he's clearly a religious man; same with Bush.  But they didn't have the kind of revival preacher flare of those others, which is actually more akin to people like Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. 

And I'[m not saying religious candidates should have to hide their faith.  Rather, it's a matter of tone and presentation.  If your argument is that religious people shouldn't have to worry about that, well, then all you're saying is that you're special and everyone has to treat you that way.  Sorry, it doesn't work like that.  I wish it did, but no.  Look at Obama and how much he's had to conceal to get where he is.  And if you think putting on sackcloth and covering yourself with ashes in public when the media misinterprets you as a candidate is going to do one iota of good for the pro-life cause, then you're delusional.

409 The answer is no fucking compromises.  Sorry, I just can't.  I'm to the point where I am tired of trying to help brain damaged liberals to comprehend; they are truly too ignorant and thoughtless to get it so they can rot in the cesspool they will create and I don't want to help.  Why give an inch, because it won't be understood.  They are all like pigs looking at a watch.  Clueless.

410 I'm so angry at the supposedly, self-described "conservative" non-voters.

Posted by: lael at November 10, 2012 04:44 PM (tUcg9)

I don't think this can be said too often or too loudly.

411 She's probably been riding the cock carousel and drinking up a storm since college, so really how is a father going to make a difference by that point? Pretty sure they mean minor children. I agree that if you're 13 year old is getting an abortion, you have some issues to deal with, but how are you supposed to know if you aren't told? Hell, forget the parents, why aren't the cops being told? We have cases of 11 year olds getting abortions in CA, and it's illegal to notify the cops. That's bullshit.

412 .A lot of socons have to be better self aware when they are making their case. You can make a secular logical argument and even an economic one for pro-life. You need to know your audience.

413 #386:  Gerald Ford was not a country club person at all.  Not by his upbringing or life.  Neither was Bob Dole.

Just saying to check fire a little bit.  Establishment?  Yes.  Country Club? Um, no.

414

 

Democrats would be too busy burning and looting  their own cities if obama had lost to say much of anything

415 "Since it's mostly the Dem side that gets abortions, I say let them have it...fewer moochers wanting free stuff."

Why hello there ya stupid breeder!  Send your kids to us because we're running out of recruits!

416 We have cases of 11 year olds getting abortions in CA, and it's illegal to notify the cops. That's bullshit.

------------


What other surgical procedure can a minor child have without parental consent?


None. 


What makes abortion so special?  God in heaven, it's like a sacrament to them.

417 As a Libertarian, I sure WISH the Tea Party were in charge. I'd get 7/8 of what I want.

418

181Posted by: Brewdog at November 10, 2012 03:33 PM (H8YE0)

Yes. Exactly right. The icons are burned into their minds.

We are Sauron.
They are Gandalf.
Posted by: eman at November 10, 2012 03:49 PM (sRus3)

 

We are Voldemort.

 

They are Harry Potter.

419 My new strategy? Change the R to a D on my voter registration. I am seriously considering registering Dem here, because I keep thinking what a great resource voter registration rolls are if Obama decides to start punishing people.

420 The GOP must never abandon its fundamental strategy. The GOP must always: agree with as many democrats as possible; alienate as many conservatives as possible; and always always kow tow to the lame stream media.

421 "A lot of socons have to be better self aware when they are making their case. You can make a secular logical argument and even an economic one for pro-life. You need to know your audience.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 10, 2012 04:49 PM (NzBQO)"

80% of the public believes in God.  The Democrats boo His name.

Maybe we should exploit that fact, not enter into a gentlemanly agreement with the Democrats not to bring it up.

422

Take it away dems isn't necessary. The  issues  the GOP should seriously consider dropping are not issues that  require no further discussion. They don't own any issue,  they have just been supportive of freedom regarding them  for so long that they are now dictating that everyone pays for them as if they are basic human rights  that Santa Claus pays for.

Fine, do it. Do just about whatever you fucking want.  Just don't make other people pay for it.

Isn't  banning a 32 oz big gulp an  entirely liberal  endeavor?  Fucking ridiculous. Beat them with freedom while championing frugality, wisdom  and choice on the personal and federal levels.

423 We have cases of 11 year olds getting abortions in CA, and it's illegal to notify the cops. That's bullshit. It's also not popular. 85% of the public opposes shit like that, including a large number of the pro-choicers.

424 What makes abortion so special? God in heaven, it's like a sacrament to them. Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 10, 2012 04:50 PM (P6QsQ) Yea, you can no longer send your kid to school with some Advils or cold meds, but they can whisk your 13 year old away for an abortion without notifying you.

425

 

If we went all in on abortion the democrats would say the change of heart was an evil plan to kill off  the future brown and black voters

426 @416:"A lot of socons have to be better self aware when they are making their case. You can make a secular logical argument and even an economic one for pro-life. You need to know your audience."
--
THIS!!!11!!

And for crying out loud, know what the traps are.  It's blindingly obvious these days what the traps are.  And it's very, very easy to speak seriously and earnestly about teh importance of your faith without falling into the cultural stereotypes that are set for us.  And if you do manage to accidently stumble into one, for the love of all that's holy, don't double down like Akin. 

427 I am seriously considering registering Dem here, because I keep thinking what a great resource voter registration rolls are if Obama decides to start punishing people.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 10, 2012 04:50 PM (2rMmy)

------------

In Wisconsin there is no registration by party.  But I'm pretty sure my 14 purchases at the, umm, "hobby shop"  put me on the Obama list.

428 The idea that 3 million 'conservatives' sat out is plain wrong. And the idea that all self-described "Republicans" think just like you or are even more conservative is even wronger. The "Republicans" who sat out are merely "leaners" on our side of the political ideological spectrum. The only time they're indifferent is when they feel a sense of urgency to vote in or vote out a politician. That did not happen in 2012. For the third time: People Like Obama. People don't agree with us that Obama is destroying the country. Sucks but it's true.

429 Pro-life republicans should talk about that, and post-birth/born-alive abortions which are hideous newborn baby killings. Not fucking rape and incest exemptions.

430 If we went all in on abortion the democrats would say the change of heart was an evil plan to kill off the future brown and black voters Posted by: kj at November 10, 2012 04:52 PM (AW9md) ----------------------------------------------------------- I don't see a problem here

431 JeremiadBullfrog, You come across like you're trying to discipline a faction of GOP voters. . . and if you think that's the way to go, well, you aren't going to win us any votes. It just comes across like you're trying to blame people as you try to "solve the problem" as to why Obama got re-elected. I agree with you that Akin types need to shut up and sit down. I agree with you about the tone and presentation as long as it's honest tone and presentation. In the next primaries, I just urge people to honestly get behind the man or woman they agree with. Somebody in the tent will have to hold their nose, but let's go with the person that most like. . . not a candidate based on "electability". That hasn't worked for our party. Let people show their enthusiasm instead of telling them to shut up and tone it down.

432 "Romney said again and again and again and again and again that he would repeal Obamacare." Yes... and? Obama said he was against gay marriage. I didn't believe him either. The president doesn't rule by fiat. Romney would have had to expend pretty much every last bit of political capital getting rid of Obamacare. He wasn't going to do it. There was plenty of air between what Obama was saying and what Romney was saying, but my sneaking suspicion is that in practice we wouldn't have noticed a lot of big changes from the former governor of one of the US's liberal bastions, particularly when he had a Democratic Senate on which to blame his lack of progress. I would have liked to have the chance to be proven wrong. On the other hand, I wasn't one of those "crawl over broken glass" people.

433 Also, if you're going to run somebody as a successful business guy, make sure he really is a successful business guy and not just a Wall Street hustler.

434 429
If we went all in on abortion the democrats would say the change of heart was an evil plan to kill off the future brown and black voters
--

...it's sad, but true.

435 People don't agree with us that Obama is destroying the country.

Give it time . . .

436 People don't agree with us that Obama is destroying the country. Well, I wanted to run out of my house screaming but my family doesn't agree with me that the house is on fire so I guess I'll just ignore the smoke and the heat.

437 Since it's mostly the Dem side that gets abortions, I say let them have it...fewer moochers wanting free stuff.

Posted by: cheshirecat at November 10, 2012 04:45 PM (6bNif)

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

 

Perhaps we  (and conservative polititions)  should cut the PC shit and actually start saying that. 

438 The president doesn't rule by fiat.

Give it time . . .

439 but they can whisk your 13 year old away for an abortion without notifying you.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 10, 2012 04:52 PM (2rMmy)

-----------

Who is liable if something goes wrong?  Who is in charge of follow-up care?  Who takes care of the young girl if she has complications?  The state?  Does the state come in the middle of the night if she starts hemorraghing?   Does the state pay for the funeral if she dies from a botch job?

My God. 

440 Fatalistic arguments circa 1840: People just don't agree that blacks shouldn't be slaves.

441

 

What makes abortion so special? God in heaven, it's like a sacrament to them.
Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 10, 2012 04:50 PM (P6QsQ)

 

Margret Sanger is the patron saint  and ugenics is the unholy cause,it is a sacrament to them

442

In other words, if you want to run as a pro-life candidate, you have to be wise about how you present yourself and your religion in public.

____

It's pretty clear that Akin and Mourdock both expressed deeply held beliefs and wanted to stay consistent with their faith's teachings. Pro-life candidates are just going to have to learn how to stay true to those beliefs while giving themselves some wiggle room, you know like the Founders believed all men were created equal but still some of them owned slaves?

 

Nothing's ever black and white, there's always 50 shades of grey... at least.

443 Actually, we should all change our registrations so we can pick the lousiest Presidential candidate for the Donks in 2016.

Posted by: Mallamutt. RINO President for Life at November 10, 2012 04:54 PM (OWjjx)

 

 

---------------------------------

 

 

Biden/Greene 2016!

444 People don't agree with us that Obama is destroying the country. --------------------------------------------------- True. It's all good until it isn't. I fear there are a lot of low information voters that are going to find out the hard way what a mistake they've made.

445 Here is how you handle issues like abortion in my opinion:

1.  Separate federal policy from state/local policy.  The abortion issue should not even be on the agenda at the FEDERAL level.

America has different culture in different areas.  Oklahoma is different than Oregon and Connecticut is different than Kansas.  Candidates should be able to have positions on state issues that differ, particularly if they come from different regions of the country where local culture differs but they should have common ground on federal policy.  The federal policy should be about strong national defense, economic growth, fiscal responsibility, and allowing states to address their unique sets of problems with their unique array of resources.

2.  Come to an agreement on what that common ground federal policy is and make it such that Republican candidates can adopt it without compromising their personal values.

That doesn't mean the party gives up on those issues, it just means the fight is taken to the state level and not done at the federal level.   One of the problems in US politics today is that we do vary so much culturally from one area to the next.  Voters in more liberal areas might feel their ability to express their local culture in their local laws is compromised by a very conservative candidate in DC.  Conservatives, likewise, might feel their values are at risk from a more moderate candidate at the federal level.  We don't have to live that way.  I also believe that this approach will also appeal across party lines.  A Democrat might look at a Republican presidential candidate who clearly has the better idea for the problems currently facing the country and feel less threatened in voting for that candidate if it was clear that this candidate is not about shoving cultural values down people's throats from Washington DC.

This then casts the Democrats as the party trying to shove their values down people's throats and makes them less attractive to many voters and it takes the Republicans out of that game at the federal level.  It basically changes the entire game. 

It might look something like this:

Abortion:  States should have the right to set their own abortion policy that reflects the desires of the voters of that state.

Climate Change:  As soon as someone comes up with some real evidence of it that doesn't rely on a computer model, we can talk about that.

Gun Control:  The federal government should not make any laws that interfere with the second amendment rights of Americans.  If individual states want to set policy that the citizens of those states want, they are free to do so within the boundaries of the US Constitution.

Illegal Immigration:  There is no point in having immigration laws if they are not going to be followed.  The first priority should be in gaining control of the borders.  Second priority should be in deciding on what to do with people who are already here.  Frankly, rounding up millions of people and deporting them is not an option within our law.  Each one is entitled to a hearing before deportation.  It would tie up courts for decades giving these people their hearing under the law.  We need to find a way to allow hard working people in good standing with their community to stay.  Those are actually the sort of people we want in this country.  People with exceptional skills such as advanced degrees, people who have served in our armed forces, or people with other exceptional talents or leadership qualities should be given a path to become citizens.  Basically those people have shown through their life experience that they are an asset to our country.  Others should be allowed to work here legally as long as they remain out of trouble.  Criminals should be deported.  Those who are not working and simply subsisting off the public welfare system should be deported.   One must be a citizen in order to obtain any benefits in excess of 12 months over a 5 year period.  This provides a safety net for an unforeseen circumstance but prevents chronic use of the benefit system.

We need to end the process of one immigrant being the anchor used to pull entire extended families into the country.  Sorry, no parents, grand parents, cousins, uncles, siblings, etc.

Taxes / Spending:  Fiscal responsibility and respect for the taxpayer should be paramount.  Economic growth should be our guidepost.  Many of our welfare programs could be shifted more efficiently to the states for administration.  End many of the federal programs with their duplications of effort.  Taxes should be kept to the minimum required to perform the requirements of the federal government and should not be used for social engineering.

Voter ID:  Should be mandatory for elections to federal office.  States can make their own decisions for state/local elections not involving candidates to federal office.

446

Actually, we should all change our registrations so we can pick the lousiest Presidential candidate for the Donks in 2016.

Mallamutt. RINO President for Life at November 10, 2012 04:54 PM (OWjjx)

 

CA went with open primary, so you don't have to  change party to screw with the opposition.

 

 

447

man my spelling is horrible

Margaret Sanger and Eugenics

448 I think if even 1% of registered Republicans became members of their local party committee, it would make a huge difference.

449 @435:"You come across like you're trying to discipline a faction of GOP voters. . . and if you think that's the way to go, well, you aren't going to win us any votes. It just comes across like you're trying to blame people as you try to "solve the problem" as to why Obama got re-elected."
--

Sorry if it's coming off so one-sided, but it was in response to that particular issue.  I think there's a lot of blame to place at everyone's feet, not just social cons.  But someone was saying social cons need to leave the party because they're causing it problems, and I was making a case for how one might oppose the social con position while not saying they have no place in the party. 

With turnout as low as it was, all factions do need to be "disciplined", but I think that's more a failure of party leadership than of any single faction.  And the people we have in charge are not the sort to discinpline anyone.

450 Three years from now the GOP primaries will begin. I promise I will fight for a Conservative/Libertarian nominee and will reject all "moderate and electable" RINOs. I promise to vote for the nominee. The above two simple vows can get us a win much more often than not. Take them and keep them. The rest is details.

451 "Actually, we should all change our registrations so we can pick the lousiest Presidential candidate for the Donks in 2016. " Hah. I know people who do just that. The danger, of course, is you pick some Barry Sanders type wacko and a week before the election we find out the Republican candidate has been diddling his son. IMO it's not worth the risk. I'd rather the Democratic candidate was sane. Just in case.

452
True. It's all good until it isn't. I fear there are a lot of low information voters that are going to find out the hard way what a mistake they've made.

That's why Republicans need to be hands off the coming session.  Vote present.  Let dems have all they want - otherwise the low information voters will once again blame republicans.

453 "And for crying out loud, know what the traps are." Were the traps static, that would be possible. Undocumented workers have much to teacher us.

454 Biden/Greene 2016! Posted by: Comrade Soona at November 10, 2012 04:58 PM (mUr1V) --------------------------------------------------------- At this point I think Biden wins. I am so defeated and deflated.

455 OT, but you know things are bad when your otherwise apolitical restaurant review radio program (in suburban Boston on a major FM station no less) starts talking about preparing for the day the Free Shit Army doesn't get its free shit because the government ran out of money. Not making this up.

456 So most morons would have been OK with Hitler exterminating the Jews b/c they weren't fully human and it was his choice?

Abortion is a terrible thing to compromise on and to vote for anyone who approves of it is shameful.

There, I said it.

Unconscionable

457 And we can enact the greatest excise tax ever - CO2 production!  Yes we can tax breathing - take that athletes!  And singers!

458 At this point I think Biden wins. I am so defeated and deflated.

Let's get real. No republican for foreseeable future is going to win the presidency.  Doesn't matter who you put up.

459 CA went with open primary, so you don't have to change party to screw with the opposition.

Posted by: GT 5.0 at November 10, 2012 04:58 PM (wb/qi)

I think this could be used in our favor, I was seriously thinking about signing up and running as a liberal democrat in our local district. Make a fake website, don't bother showing up to debates.Waste about $1000 at Kinko's and see what happens.

460 Rick Scott says Florida will not set up Obamacare exchange

461 Posted by: gw mclintock at November 10, 2012 05:02 PM (agud7) Dude. Seriously? Hitler?

462 If you don't exercise and get healthy - Tax!  If you do exercise and breathe heavily - Tax!

Sheer beauty.

463 Who is liable if something goes wrong? Who is in charge of follow-up care? Who takes care of the young girl if she has complications? The state? Does the state come in the middle of the night if she starts hemorraghing? Does the state pay for the funeral if she dies from a botch job?
My God.

==============================

Not to mention the psychological problem that are sure to happen...

464 465  I think bad things happen to the states that don't set up the exchanges, like they lose medicaid funding, but I'm not certain.  Obamacare is going to collapse, it will never work, but it will bring down our medical delivery system with it.

465 There was plenty of air between what Obama was saying and what Romney was saying, but my sneaking suspicion is that in practice we wouldn't have noticed a lot of big changes from the former governor of one of the US's liberal bastions, particularly when he had a Democratic Senate on which to blame his lack of progress.

I would have liked to have the chance to be proven wrong. On the other hand, I wasn't one of those "crawl over broken glass" people.

Ugh.

Rationalize all you want.

You're "sneaking suspicion" that Romney wouldn't be 100% up to your standards of perfection (or manage to repeal every last bit of Obamacare) was your reason not vote for OUR ONLY CHANCE, EVEN IF IT WASN'T A 100% GUARANTEE, STILL OUR ONLY AND LAST CHANCE to repeal Obamacare, before it's entrenched PERMANENTLY?

You, and non-voters like you: it's in large part directly because of you that we're now definitively, permanently stuck with Obamacare. In its monstrous entirety. No "sneaking suspicion": cold hard 100% fact.

Thanks!

You know, I thought by the end of the campaign that nobody took the Hot Air ABR trolls seriously. That everyone knew they were mobys, or angry Ronulans, or loons. That genuine conservatives knew what was at stake in this election.

I didn't think so many ACTUAL conservatives, or people who really think of themselves as conservatives, would follow the Hot Air trolls' lead.

466 Scott will be a marked man in 2014, we need to support him

467 Isn't there some law wherein the first guy to mention Hitler or nazis loses the thread, argument and all posting rights?

468 BTW - anything associated with exercise - Tax!

What?  You ran naked?  Over the ground?  An earth-wear excise tax!

Existence tax (I am talking to you, Ms. Frisky the Squirrel).

469

I voted for voter ID. The Dems are going to find a way to cheat anyway. But I also repsect those that voted for Climate change. Even though everybody knows its a fraud.....whatever. Add 20% to our energy costs. Its chump change money in the big picture.

 

But for those that are prolife to give up on the life issue completely? Wow.

470 30 fucking GOP Governors. If they banded together, they could take down Obamacare.  They have favorable winds in 2014 to be re-elected. Exit polls still say voters by over 50% want it repealed

471 Scott will be a marked man in 2014, we need to support him

Indeed.  That liberal bitch just barely lost to him, so I expect him to have a really tough time getting elected.  Florida seems to be turning into a blue state because of demographics.

472 447 ro-life candidates are just going to have to learn how to stay true to those beliefs while giving themselves some wiggle room
--
..and this comes first and foremost with the recognition that political office is not religious office.  If you were a pastor of a church or bishop of a diocese and people were telling you to be shrewd and play realpolitik, then yes, that would be an abnegation of your faith and your duty to proclaim religious truth and pursue religious policy from your office and call it by its name loudly and clearly, ie., witness to your faith by virtue of your office. 

But the problem with people like Akin is that they seem to think that there is an equivalent obligation to witness to faith in the same manner regardless of what kind of office one holds.  There isn't, and the main reason is that political office is non-religiously representative.  Now, that doesn't mean you "can't be religious" or have to "hide your faith and not talk about it".  Quite the contrary; it's incumbent upon our representatives to be people of character who are honest about their beliefs, and I know very many religious people who do are just that.  All I'm saying is that if you step back and humbly see that you're the kind of person who can't control his tongue and makes awkward alienating statements, albeit inadvertently, then maybe it's not prudent to try to be the standardbearer for your cause because you might do more damage than good.

473 How about this for a strategy: vigorously oppose anybody endorsed by the establishment and beltway jabberwockies as "electable."

474 Posted by: i like anchors 2012 at November 10, 2012 03:35 PM (LCZ3l)

I love it when folks tell me that to be really pro-life I should adopt the unwanted.  Hilarious really because they have no CLUE about me or my family.  I'm one of 28 kids.  I wasn't adopted but 17 of us were--and not the easy ones with the blonde hair and blue eyes but the blind and the lame and the deaf.  Not one of my siblings deserved to be discarded or tossed aside.  And my parents did their part.  I'm pro-life and I've earned the right to shove that arrogant and condescending POV you just tossed off into the crap that spewed it.

My neighbor down the street had 4 kids and adopted one and then, a couple of years later, was called on the phone from the hospital and asked if she would like to pick up her son's little sister who had just been born.  She had 45 minutes notice before she had to decide if having a 6th child (and one with every kind of drug in her system at birth), newly abandoned by her prostitute mother and pimp father, should come to her home.  And she'd do it again if need be.

So I get that everyone is not pro-life.  But don't be such an ass about people who are. They aren't cartoons.



 

475

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at November 10, 2012 03:19 PM (vUK/h)

Rush shouldn't have said that he hopes Obama's policies fail back in '08. He wasn't clearly stating that he hoped he would fail to get his policies through.  He should have said that  he knows they will fail. 

That is the major difference between the parties, isn't it?  

If the GOP advocates individual  freedom, they should examine what that means  and really champion it. Show America how liberals and their agenda  stifle freedom and present that as the choice.

 

476 "You, and non-voters like you: it's in large part directly because of you that we're now definitively, permanently stuck with Obamacare. In its monstrous entirety. No "sneaking suspicion": cold hard 100% fact. " You're reading too much into what I wrote. I voted. Hell, I live in CA, where there's no particular reason to vote for president, this being a swing state only in discussions about dating. And I didn't discourage other potential Romney voters. Let's face reality here. Remember GHWB's "no new taxes" pledge? A guy who takes a position because it's politically convenient isn't someone you can count on during contact with the enemy.

477 Do aborted babies go to Heaven?

478

Does the state come in the middle of the night
if she starts hemorraghing? Does the state pay for the funeral if she
dies from a botch job?
___

None of the women who were mutilated by Kermit Gosnell got help from the state, in fact, PA DPW protected him. And then of course, the woman who came up from MD or DC was killed by his staff. No one took any action until the Feds raided his clinic on a prescription drug peddling charge.

479 I agree that the pro-life argument can be made on strictly constitutional grounds, at least from the age of viability.  Let's start there.

No person should be deprived of life or liberty without due process of law.

Until a charge of criminal conduct can be lodged against the baby, the baby is appointed an attorney, the baby is allowed to face its accusers, and the baby is found guilty in a court of law and sentenced to death by a jury, the baby cannot be denied the right to life.

Also, the slavery argument.  What we have here is akin to slavery in that one person is allowed to hold another person as property, and to dispose of said property as they see fit.

If people are not property, then they have rights.  If people are still property, then we never outlawed slavery.

And if they are not property, why are wrongful death suits and murder charges brought against  someone who kills a pregnant woman and her unborn child, on behalf of the child?

Either the child is a person in these situations or it is not.  It is not dependent on what how the "property owner" (i.e. pregnant woman) wishes to view it.

If I want you, you are granted personhood but if I don't want you, you are considered property?  That's not logical.

480

Drop abortion as a crucial issue.  It scares off single women voters in droves, especially those who support criminalizing an abortion of a women who was raped.  That sounds fucking insane...because it is fucking insane.

481 @485 That's right - adopt a minority position among women to attract women voters.

Math is hard!

482 "Do aborted babies go to Heaven?" Tricky question. That's why ME theologians invented limbo. One of those NPR weekend shows (either Radiolab or This American Life) had a creepy segment on 16th century child murders in Germany. Turns out people believed young, baptized children would go to heaven if they died, but suicide was a one-way ticket to hell. If you wanted to die the solution, of course, was to go out and murder your nieghbor's child. That way the kid goes to heaven, and you have a chance to repent before they hang you. Win-win. They had hundreds of these cases until the government finally gave up and abolished capital punishment. Sometimes people suck.

483 So the assumption is Romney, a pro-lifer, lost because he was a pro-lifer, is that it? So Romney would not be able to be the nominee under the re-envisioned GOP? Honestly, I'm getting pretty ticked off at the scape-goating. If we wanted to win this time, Romney should have conceded on raising taxes on millionaires. He lost because of class warfare and because he fit into the mold of the out of touch rich guy. Why a human rights issue like abortion is a throw away item but raising taxes on millionaires is The Hill to Die On, escapes me.

484

Posted by: Ace's liver at November 10, 2012 05:19 PM (1+XRG)

__

In colonial America, weren't there a lot of "accidental" baby-squishings, when the parents rolled over their newborns in bed?

485

I surprised myself and put "Voter ID".

 

The thing is, if the elections are fixed, everything else is lost anyway.

 

Granted, Voter ID isn't a complete fix for that, but it might help, and it's a start. If you don't have integrity in your voting system, you don't have a democracy.

 

I'd probably go with gun control 2nd, because it's a basic right, and the next check on government tyranny. I've never even owned a gun.

 

Taxes and spending 3rd.  If you don't have an economy, you're in trouble.

 

Cliamte Change?  Seriously?  I remember seeing Sarah Palin, who seemed unusual in thinking it was hokum, back-pedaling on that in '08, because it was unpopular.  Does the party really even have an official stand on that?

 

486 Ace's liver, I apologize. I misinterpreted what you wrote and thought you yourself hadn't voted.

I can understand a grudging vote for Romney (though I was one of the crawl-over-broken-glass people).

But I find it very hard to forgive the non-voters. And worse, those who encouraged others not to vote. There were quite a few of those voices on conservative blogs, most of whom I considered trolls. Who knows how many they actually influenced. They provided a rationalization/ excuse to stay home for those who would have only voted for Romney grudgingly.

Those grudging votes are IMO among the most important, and (contrary to many concern trolls' contention) among the most principled. Yes, moral and principled. Overcoming your dislike or disinclination toward a candidate, to vote for the good of your country, for the love of your country (not for the love of the candidate himself).

487 It was that damned Cos-Mo-Politan Magazine, and Helen Gurley Brown that started this movement - that begot us Sandra Fluke.

Just sayin...

488 In the previous poll, I said we only need minor tweaks and better candidates; however to somes, those minor tweaks may seem huge.  I tink we win with candidates who are more intellectually consistent.  To me, wanting small government extends to being pro-small government in people's personal lives, meaning that we have to respect people's personal choices even if we disagree with them.

489

486

I don't know what polls you are looking at.  In any case, it needs to be seriously deemphasized as an important issue.  The GOP should be neutral on it.

490 we have to respect people's personal choices even if we disagree with them.

ding ding ding!!!!! 

491 492 I could have predicted the outcome of that first poll without even looking at the results. Trade a life for a vote. How very sad. ---- Me, too. But I think the poll was stacked that way. If you bundle "taxes and spending" into one mega-category, that pretty much ensures it's sacred, when of course there are deals to be made in both categories. Wonder how the poll would have turned out if the legalizing pot issue had been in there?

492 How to annoy liberals. When they start gloating about Obama'swin report Armando's excelllent comment-from Tuesday, I think. about the things that will likely happen under an Obama term ending with "Good luck; You're going to need it" Or when they say "Obama has a job,. What does Rommey go back to? say "A large loving family, many friends who admired and resoected him as a leader in business, in the church and Government. He has strong faith in God\ and a supportive faith community. he's comfortably well off and doesn't need a job and he can go back to supporting the many charitable things he did before and more. He also (hopefully) doesn't have to worry about deranged liberals tweeting death threats. And if you really want to annoy them say "I didn't really like Romney but he grew on me and I really ended up having respect and affection for him. I'm going to to o find away to write a handwritten letter to him about that right now and say how glad i am he ran and I'm praying for he and his family. It's even better when you can tell them-as I can-that I am a registered Democrat. Their responses are either lame or mean spirited. And I really am going to write him a letter and thank he and Ann.

493 The GOP even fails at failing. Classic!

494 "Those grudging votes are IMO among the most important, and (contrary to many concern trolls' contention) among the most principled." I would amend that a little and say the grudging votes "in states where it matters" are important. I have to admit, I'm not sure I would have voted if not for state-wide concerns (that all went the other way anyhow). There was no way Obama was going to lose California. There was no way Diane Feinstein was going to lose her Senate seat. There was no way my local Democratic representative was going to lose to an underfunded Republican nobody on the street could even name. But were I living in Ohio or Pennsylvania or Florida there would have been no question.

495 Do aborted babies go to Heaven? Posted by: SFGoth at November 10, 2012 05:12 PM (spwZ/) Yes. Limbo was once an non-dogmatic suggestion from theologians of what might happen to them with no Baptism. It is simple: People who get Abortions are thwarting God's justice. As a result, his justice and mercy is more than enough to deal with the the stain of original sin on the soul of the baby.

496 "It was that damned Cos-Mo-Politan Magazine, and Helen Gurley Brown that started this movement - that begot us Sandra Fluke. " A small price to pay for decades of cleavage at the checkout counter.

497 A small price to pay for decades of cleavage at the checkout counter. Posted by: Ace's liver at November 10, 2012 05:32 PM (1+XRG) And the 100 "New" sex positions they advertise each months

498 Hey, it's not too early to start drinking, being Saturday and all.

499

Also, I think we should be for easy green card access for immigrants who can demonstrate that they can take care of themselves and aren't violent criminals. 

 

Additionally, I think we can push our own version of the dream act that is more consistent with our values.  I have no problem granting citizenship to a person who was brought here as a kid if they go to college, serve in the military, etc.  I want that kind of young person being an American; however, our age limit should be far more realistic than what Obama wants.  Something like being able to demonstrate you'e been here since you were five?  I think a K - 12 record could prove that.  I'm not 100% sure on how to enforce that, but it's a start for a discussion.  Isn't Obama's plan that you can become if a citizen if your parents brought you to the US before you were 22? lol

 

But, I don't think these kind of tweaks are pandering.  I think they are intellectually consistent positions based on conservative values.

500 We had some people who should have voted with us that, out of principle, stayed home. That may have cost us the election.

But the elephant in the room is, why did it boil down to this?

I would have preferred winning this one and seeing things slow down (the destruction of the country). But more than that I would have thought we would have seen a landslide our way. Since we didn't, it means we've tipped. And we may as well let the GOP destroy itself now and the Left with it. In doing so, the 50% will learn a valuable lesson that we will need to rebuild a truly right-centric coalition.

501 51 perzent! Not bad. Not bad at all!

502 Ace's liver, agreed. Though I do think there are strong weighty reasons to vote (even grudgingly) in non-swing states too, even dark blue ones.

But yes, it's not voting in swing states, specifically, that is truly inexcusable.

503 Re: abortion -- the *best* the GOP can do is nominate conservative justices who will ensure that states' ability to limit abortion after viability is preserved, and to allow parental notification and such.  It does this by ceasing to scare single women voters off by STFU about abortion.  The worst the GOP can do is turn off single women by emphasizing abortion, thus begetting a whole lot more liberal justices.

504 "CA went with open primary, so you don't have to change party to screw with the opposition."

Right, but they ALSO got rid of the notion of party on the November ballot. The top two candidates in the primaries get on the ballot regardless of party.  So if you go to the Dem side and cast on a weak candidate and they win that primary, you end up getting the top two Democrats on the November ballot and no Republican candidate.

In California you do not have the top R and top D candidate on the November ballot.  You get the top two vote getting candidates regardless of party.

505 I don't want the GOP to cave on abortion, but our candidates need to learn how to avoid being painted in a corner.  Why aren't Dems ever asked if they would approve an abortion for a woman who is already in labor?  who is aborting because she thinks her baby has the gay gene?  because she really wanted a boy, not another girl? 

506 Instead of deciding what we should drop, why don't think in terms of an offensive, and go after the Dems? The thing that hurts us more than any of these issues--and that cuts across gender, ethnic and economic lines--is the idea that the Republicans are the party of the rich and uncaring. So let's go after the Democrats,and show how THEY are the party of the rich and uncaring. Low info voters need to know that the richest counties --the 1% counties --vote for Democrats. They need to know that Goldman Sachs is a firm of scheming Democrats, and that most of the very rich members of Congress are Dems. They need to be presented with countless examples of limousine lib indifference and hypocrisy. I dont' know how we do it ,but I don't think anything else will work if we don't persuade people that the guys who say we're monsters are the real monsters.

507 I think this could be used in our favor, I was seriously thinking about signing up and running as a liberal democrat in our local district. Make a fake website, don't bother showing up to debates.Waste about $1000 at Kinko's and see what happens.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 10, 2012 05:03 PM (NzBQO)

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

Bait and switch.  I like it.  

508

What it comes down to, is our message should always be about the role of government and our economy. Republican policy should be we will work with you to avoid sequestration and we will raise the debt ceiling, but beyond that we will only vote for tax increases after, and ONLY AFTER, cuts. Period. Start with defense, police state bullshit, tax breaks for Hollywood (lol), federal state, and municipal government bureausthat shouldnÂ’t exist, etc., and if after truly cutting government waste we still need to raise taxes, then weÂ’ll do it. ThatÂ’s how we win. We won't have to rasie taxes and we'll be able to juxtapose our effective, reasonable policies with those of democrats who have never seen a problem that government can't solve.

 

Of course, this neds to apply to our candidates, as well.

509 @ 514 Burke

You're talking about Santa Claus. You will not be able to tarnish his image. He will have to do that himself by not showing up for the little children. The only way it will happen, now.

510 "The worst the GOP can do is turn off single women by emphasizing abortion, thus begetting a whole lot more liberal justices."

2012 will be seen in retrospect as a watershed moment.

Where people who oppose abortion ended up, due to their utter political incompetence, helping to permanently and irremovably enshrine abortion.

Note that I said, "helping to". Vote fraud also helped. Class envy also helped.

But it is not possible to get away from the proposition that socons with bad messaging on abortion were one of the Top Three reasons for the 2012 disaster.

And now that central article of faith for socons, _Roe_ repeal, is forever out of reach. Brilliant job there.

Socons can still run and win. The GOP doesn't have to go start waving scalpels and suction tools and promising abortions for all. But the MESSAGING has to be changed. And then the new message discipline has to be rigorously enforced, with immediate consequences for any future Akins.

But, even if that leads to eventual victories in '14 and '16, don't expect any abortion rollbacks to result. That's the takeaway lesson from '12. Certain socons picked that hill, and the cause died on that hill.

511

OBAMANESIA won in every state that does not have Voter ID

That is the only issue

Till that is fixed the screws are put to the electorate

The "FIX" was in Big Time in several places this election all in "da cities"

Fix it, or we fail at everything,

If the trust in the actual vote is lost then  civility (civilization) is lost and actual revolution is the only solution

512 "So let's go after the Democrats,and show how THEY are the party of the rich and uncaring." That's the basis of Glenn Reynolds's suggestion of a crackdown on Hollywood accounting. These people make money by the truck full and lecture the rest of us on our devil-take-the-hindmost philosophy all without actually paying taxes themselves. I'd like to see them spend the next two years defending this state of affairs in public.

513 The conservative message of self-reliance, when stacked up against Santa, will always lose. The only reason we've ever won is because we've outnumbered the takers. Now that it's switching, the only thing that will fix it is for the takers to start coming up empty. No messaging will convince a taker.

514 My GOP strategy.

1) Abolish INS
2) Spend it All Spend Spend
3) Anyone can marry anything

Let it burn.

515 Hi sven, I like it!

516 Abortion needs to go away.  Let the commies abort their little future welfare leeches, conservative women won't be having any.  Abort away, fuckers.

517 I think this could be used in our favor, I was seriously thinking about signing up and running as a liberal democrat in our local district. Make a fake website, don't bother showing up to debates.Waste about $1000 at Kinko's and see what happens.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 10, 2012 05:03 PM (NzBQO)

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

 

If the dems are going to have a permanent majority, sans burning, then how about we get a conservative repub governor at the end of his term to declare (by design) that he's seen the light and will become a dem.  Let him run on liberal policy, then when he wins, governs constitutionally. 

 

We can do this.

518 GOP could probably figure out a way to screw that up though.

519 @ 525

I live in WA. I think this is exactly how the Dems do it here. You're an absolute shoe-in here with that 'D' behind your name. I guess we're not unique, come to think of it...

520 "[Low information voters] need to know that Goldman Sachs is a firm of scheming Democrats"

LIVs don't know what the fuck Goldman Sachs is. I guarantee you this.

And Goldman is a firm of schemers of no particular allegiance. The vampire squid will affectionately wrap its tentacles round anyone who will advance its interests.

Romney was the largest recipient of Goldman money this cycle.

It was clear that William Dudley of the New York Fed was shortlisted to run Treasury in a Romney administration. Dudley is a former Goldman squid.

(Since having former Goldman squid Hank Paulson appointed to Treasury by Bush worked out just _so_ well for conservatism. TARP, anyone?)

One thing Romney missed an opportunity to do this year was to run against Wall Street. You can't do that when you take Goldman money. If Romney had foresworn dirty money from the squid, and made a point of it, and made a point of Obama receiving the squid pro quo, it might have helped inoculate Romney against wealthy-elitist charges.

But at the end of the day Romney WAS a wealthy elitist. ("Some of my best friends own NASCAR teams," anyone? Car elevator, anyone? Horse farm?)

521 I live in WA. I think this is exactly how the Dems do it here. You're an absolute shoe-in here with that 'D' behind your name. I guess we're not unique, come to think of it...

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 10, 2012 05:58 PM (MmH0Z)

 

 

------------------------------------------------

 

 

Maybe that's what we need to do to stabilize politics.   Conservatives need to start introducing hordes of dark horses onto the campaign scene. 

522 LIV's are trained to look for the sign of the D, and that's all they know, want to know, and need to know - now.

All this talk of 'messaging' in light of who we're up against is ridiculous.

523 I'm ashamed that the murder of 50 million innocents means less to those taking the survey than their tax bill.

Just the idea makes me realize the Republican party, as willing participants (oh, but only so we could win elections and DOOOOO something) in the genocide. (what would the murder of multi-ethnic/racial babies be termed as? I know genocide isn't it)

natalcide?

524 One of the trailers shown before Skyfall was a Matt Damon anti-fracking flick. It was nauseating. The Narrative is like the Terminator: it won't stop, ever, until you are dead.

525 531 I'm ashamed that the murder of 50 million innocents means less to those taking the survey than their tax bill.
natalcide?
Posted by: Jcw46

They go to Heaven and I have more money to spend on things that make me happy.  Win-Win

526 10 times more American babies killed by abortion than Jews killed by Hitler.

527 531 JCW46,

Free Shit Army and julia have made it clear for the US to have them sit out and have any chance at sanity requires:

Anyone can marry anything they want, free pogo pills for my gini, and baby butchery.

I don't know what the fuck to do.

Let it burn.

528 Abortion: Do you think for one second the issue will ever go away? I know the answer, you are not thinking.

529 But at the end of the day Romney WAS a wealthy elitist. ("Some of my best friends own NASCAR teams," anyone? Car elevator, anyone? Horse farm?)

Posted by: torquewrench at November 10, 2012 06:00 PM (ymG7s)

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

 

So I see you've bought into the OWS attitude of class warfare too. 

530 I'm ashamed that the murder of 50 million innocents means less to those taking the survey than their tax bill. Just the idea makes me realize the Republican party, as willing participants (oh, but only so we could win elections and DOOOOO something) in the genocide. (what would the murder of multi-ethnic/racial babies be termed as? I know genocide isn't it) natalcide? Posted by: Jcw46 at November 10, 2012 06:02 PM (SP4jC) Who is saying it means less? Perhaps they are saying we can't fix this now, let's get some political power first, then fix it.

531 Even the messages they DO pay attention to (contraception, bigbird, lady parts) are spoonfed to them by their media. Even if they could understand our message, the media would twist it or withhold it altogether.

We need to stop playing THEIR game.

532 Why play this game? What is the point? Do you really believe that if we drop drop some specific part of the conservative platform that suddenly everything is better and we suddenly start winning elections over a corrupt media and a party willing to commit vote fraud to win?

533 534 10 times more American babies killed by abortion than Jews killed by Hitler. Posted by: DAve

Considering Hitler implemented the Final Solution in 1941 and it ended in 1945, I think Hitler had a higher on-base %.

534 540 sdavis,

Nope and that is why we run Project wideawake 2013 or we're done.

Chris Matthews has too many teeth.

535 Do aborted babies go to Heaven? Posted by: SFGoth at November 10, 2012 05:12 PM (spwZ/) Yes. Limbo was once an non-dogmatic suggestion from theologians of what might happen to them with no Baptism. It is simple: People who get Abortions are thwarting God's justice. As a result, his justice and mercy is more than enough to deal with the the stain of original sin on the soul of the baby. Posted by: Nate at November 10, 2012 05:31 PM (BBlzg) Do they grow up and go to school get married and have kids or do they stay babies forever?

536 @ 540 exactly

I'm through playing this game. I think that's another reason we had so many not vote Tuesday. They said fuck it.

If this same scenario starts playing out yet again, our turnout will drop again.

LIB

537 541  Yes, but he was a MONSTER

538 whats wideawake 2013?

539 @531

Sorry, I'm all out of empathy for these people.   The abortion thing is a win/win for us.  The people having abortions aren't conservatives, they're communist baby factories.  It's us versus them now, and we need to start using this "demographics change" against them.  From now on I will encourage every dumbass "vaginal issues voter" I see to abort away as many future liberals as possible. 

Sound harsh?  Not really when you consider that these people are actively trying to destroy America.

540 @527 - That's the California situation as well.

In most cases, if you want to get into politics these days you do so as a Democrat, because there are so few routes to office for a Republican.

541 I really think the GOP is dead and they just don't know it yet.

542 I didn't think so many ACTUAL conservatives, or people who really think of themselves as conservatives, would follow the Hot Air trolls' lead. Well, now you know. I live in IL, I didn't cost anyone the election. I was for voting for Romney (especially in Ohio) because Obama is that fucking bad. But now you know. Maybe in the future you should take that 100% fact into consideration when selecting the nominee, so we don't wind up with this shit again.

543
"So I see you've bought into the OWS attitude of class warfare too."

If I had, I would not have voted for Romney. I did vote for Romney.

Romney's conspicuous consumption, and off the cuff remarks that made it clear he lives in an insulated world of super wealth, opened him up to class warfare attacks. Like a boxer sticking out his chin.

And those attacks work. The Obama messaging successfully turned off a lot of upper Midwest working class whites to Romney, by saying in effect,

"The only thing this guy has in common with you is his skin color and nothing else. Do you have a car elevator? He does. Do your friends own NASCAR teams? His friends do. Does your wife practice dressage on the family horse farm? His wife does. How did he get this rich? He closed factories where people like you work."

Meanwhile, Romney's messaging tack was about "job creation", a message largely nullified by the class warfare gambit. Trust me, working class whites have heard a lot of chin music about "job creation" in the last few years while watching their own actual job opportunities vanish.

When Reagan made money, he bought a small modest ranch in the hills, with no luxury or glitz, and he went out there and physically cleared brush in the hot sun. Romney's money bought palatial beach houses and car elevators. Compare and contrast. Reagan won. Romney lost.

544 546 HH,

Time to start nuking the media. Follow them with PIs go through their garbage, use investigative techniques, break a few laws getting financial and health data like they're fond of everything up to the edge of violence to destroy, blackmail, or shred the credibility of said journalists.

breitbart with a ballbat.

Fuck them, 'til then let it burn.

545 I like it. It's definitely gloves-off time on several fronts.

546 Quit blathering about stupid things:  Stacy Dash 2016:  http://tinyurl.com/ay9ndj2

547 How are we going to find another moderate what nobody likes?

548 I keep thinking of how pissed I was when Mitt was selected. I toyed with staying home, early on. I guess I was not alone, and quite a few stuck to their guns.

Anyway, all that anger has come back. And I really don't blame the people who sat it out, since I was there at one point too.

549 How are we going to find another moderate what nobody likes?

Posted by: Butters at November 10, 2012 06:18 PM (NIZHJ)

It's the only thing the GOP does successfully.

550 Maybe the Whigs will run someone.

551 I'm here all week...

552 @556

Agreed.  I really grew to like Mitt, even donated money to him.  Looking back, I think if Perry hadn't made an idiot of himself in those debates, we'd be laughing at liberals "Jesusland" maps all over their blogs right now.

553 Redeeming Microsoft points is harder then physics.

554 I'm amazed by the stance of "the moderate no one likes".

Except he won many, many GOP primaries. You can excuse or dismiss the ones after "inevitability" set it, but the man *won* our primaries. I supported him throughout, and even though the other candidates wouldn't have appealed as much to me, I would have voted for them too. Because they ALL- WOULD- HAVE- BEEN- BETTER- THAN- OBAMA.

555 What?

556 Yeah I don't have any anger against Mitt personally. He's a smart guy and even showed some conservatism at times.

Even RR couldn't stop the Leviathan.

A good book in case you haven't seen it, is "Never Enough". Like a horror story, for conservatives. But really explains what we're up against.

So I think we should let things carry through to their logical conclusion now. Get it over with.

557 Fight for a Conservative. Vote for the Nominee.

558 "So I see you've bought into the OWS attitude of class warfare too." How many small businesses are Too Big To Fail? None. How many taxi-cab drivers can afford the license you need to run your own cab company? None. How many more years will Disney own the copyright on Mickey? Forever, because they own the legislators, and that's why gambling in southern Florida won't happen either. Want to open a casino in the Land of the Free? Fuck you, Disney owns Florida and they legally ban competition. Want to start your own car company and offer an American made vehicle for cheap? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Republicans need to wake up to the fact that Big Government is all about creating separate classes, they are real now as a result of the law, and so is their baseless unfair privilege, and the ensuing warfare it engenders. Haves and Have-Nots is not really about rich and poor. It's about those who have power (over others) and those who have not power (over even their own lives). Money is just one small aspect of that. This is what big government and centralization is all about. Relatively few people seizing the power to dictate the outcomes of life to everyone else, who are left to know their place in the elite scheme. The GOP needs to learn class warfare, not just deny it - or you will continue to be seen as completely out of touch with reality.

559 "I keep thinking of how pissed I was when Mitt was selected."

I get to live in Commiefornia, where not only doesn't my vote count for shit in general elections, it never counts for anything in GOP Presidential primaries, because states east of here have already selected a winner.

And those states' primary voters are doing SUCH a good job of that, too.

When was the last time that system produced a Republican who won by a wide margin?

1988.

Every Presidential election since then, the GOP nominee has either lost, or won only in a terrifyingly close photo finish.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

560 I'm a liberal ex-Democrat.

The quickest way to lose my vote is to support gun control.

I can think of a lot of adjectives to apply to somebody who'd tell a woman that it's better that she be beaten, raped and murdered than to shoot the guy trying to do those things to her, misogynist, Islamist, degenerate maybe, but "liberal" isn't one of them.

I'm not giving up any guns, nor registering them, so any of that stuff is probably going to end up with me dead in a gunfight.  I'm not voting for anybody who'd turn the next crop of Lon Horiuchis on the world.

561 What we need is to have Boner agree to a bill that automatically raises the debt limit 20% every three months or so. It would save a lot of time. Or when spending gets within say $500B of the limit.

Spend-spend-spend. And sleep like a baby.

562 I think they're gonna try something with guns this term. I think they'll get something, too. Some kind of limit or ban. A lot of Julias out there.

563 550 entropy,

I don't take advice from people who think what's coming is just the same as a Romney run would have been.

You won, let it burn.

564 I don't take advice from people who think what's coming is just the same as a Romney run would have been. Kay. Just keep on keeping on then. I can tell it's working so swell for you, I'm glad your happy with it.

565 And those states' primary voters are doing SUCH a good job of that, too. When was the last time that system produced a Republican who won by a wide margin? 1988. Every Presidential election since then, the GOP nominee has either lost, or won only in a terrifyingly close photo finish. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Posted by: torquewrench at November 10, 2012 06:30 PM (ymG7s) There will be a Burger King on the Moon before the GOP has closed primaries and voter ID.

566 So when Obama is impeached, and Biden is declared incompetent, - Weeping Boner becomes the POTUS?

567 I propose the name of the new party made to replace the GOP shall be The No Bullshit Party

568 572 entropy,

Who the fuck do you think is still playing the game scooter?

Fuck it let it burn.

I am not letting you pick the magic pony super secret agent candidate or undermining the total process.

Fuck you let it burn you voted for it you'll get all of Big Stick in the 4th point of contact.

I told Boehner anything but the bill of rights let Barry have it Mr. Speaker.

All in baby.

You won let it burn.

569 So when Obama is impeached, and Biden is declared incompetent, - Weeping Boner becomes the POTUS? Posted by: Fritz at November 10, 2012 06:39 PM (0yCoM) ---------------------------------------------------- No way in hell the repukes in the house have the dangling courage units to impeach Teh Won.

570 577 Truck Monkey,

hey I'm sure since we've removed barry and all in this fantasy that we'll use the mind control device Boehner used on harry Reid to change the GOP....

fellas he won and Harry is his shield.

Let it burn.

571 Did anyone here not vote or not vote for Romney?

572 I wish we could find away to channel the class warfare thing to deal with the Hollywood liberal elite, and the media.  Liberals slobbering love affair with super rich celebrities can be used to our advantage but I just don't know how. 

573

I truly believe the people answering this poll are Republicans.

 

And if the majority of Republicans answering this poll are willing to throw abortion under the bus, that speaks volumes to me -- and not in a good way.

 

This election convinced me that God has given up on this country.  Seeing what I'm seeing in this poll, I really understand why.

 

I'm done with politics.  Both parties can rot in Hell for all I care from now on.

574

I wouldn't "fold" on any - but i checked 'abortion' simply because it is making our candidates stoopid (more stupid than they are) and spawning more side issues for us to lose votes over.  None of the idiots who are spouting off on "rape/life" have any clue on what to say and what not to. We walk into the traps laid by the media and look foolish and mean.

There is nothing these candidates can do about it - it is a settled law. Why not talk of "protecting live birth babies and opposing partial birth abortions" instead of giving sermons on what they personally believe about rape and God's intention.

575 582 Saxon,

It's only making tard Akin and friends stupid because they refuse to either shut the fuck up and demur or make the opponent own partial birth abortion without kneeing them in the balls.

Project Wideawake b/c my candidate having details on what Candy Crowley slept with means she may shoot straight.

576 Politicians who purport to speak for G-d should scare us all. We all need to wake up. Politicos of all stripes are wildly feeding and profiting at the pig trough that is Washington DC. I'm with Sven.... let it burn.

577 @570

Normally I'd say that would be Obama's and the Dem's downfall, but after watching videos of the police confiscating guns in NO after Katrina I think they'd willingly give them up.  They might even be able to get away with it with a "Cash for Hanguns/Clunkers" type of program.  America is a nation of pussys now.

578 Fuck you let it burn you voted for it you'll get all of Big Stick in the 4th point of contact. Actually I didn't. My goodness, you're an angry imbecile. Unfortunately, I am not the Straw Man who shot your dog.

579 584 Truck monkey,
Well Tard Akin speaks for God so does Dick Mourdock but Obama thinks he is God...

so there's that.

Let it burn because a totally bankrupt DC has less power to keep me from burning junk mail to not die.

Let it burn.

580 586 Entropy,

Yeah you did.

You vote 3d party or don't vote for the person stopping Chicago Jesus you voted for whatever wins.

He won.

You'll get all of it.

Let it burn.

581 579 Did anyone here not vote or not vote for Romney?

Posted by: eman at November 10, 2012 06:44 PM (sRus3)

The only two I know of here are Flackjacksomethingorother and boulder hobo.

582 You vote 3d party or don't vote for the person stopping Chicago Jesus you voted for whatever wins. I live in Chicago, shmuck. You're completely detached from empirical facts.

583 585 1984 in real life,

Oddly they did NOT try to confiscate my guns after Rita.....

why is that?

Let it burn.

584 The only two I know of here are Flackjacksomethingorother and boulder hobo. Posted by: Tami at November 10, 2012 06:52 PM (X6akg) 18-1 advocated it, but I don't know what he did.

585 590 entropy,

every vote counts towards PV, and genius...

Thanks for the gift giving us barky Choom is a great resume enhancer.

Let it burn and if SMOD comes let it nail downtown Chi-town.

586 every vote counts towards PV, and genius... But presidents don't win on popular votes. He would have lost anyway. Thanks for the gift giving us barky Choom is a great resume enhancer. Again, completely detached from empirical facts about reality. I don't know what la-la land you live or what the political process looks like there.

587 "I didn't think so many ACTUAL conservatives, or people who really think of themselves as conservatives, would follow the Hot Air trolls' lead."

Well, now you know. I live in IL, I didn't cost anyone the election. I was for voting for Romney (especially in Ohio) because Obama is that fucking bad.

But now you know. Maybe in the future you should take that 100% fact into consideration when selecting the nominee, so we don't wind up with this shit again.

Posted by: entropy at November 10, 2012 06:14 PM (YUttk

You're assuming that if another candidate had won the primaries, there wouldn't be just as many trolls (or unhappy Repubicans/ conservatives who supported other candidates) ragging on him/her. I think there would be; they'd just be taking a different tack.

You really think Santorum or Gingrich, with their respective megatons of baggage, could have beat Obama + MSM in this election? I don't. For all the voters they might've gained, they would've lost (or failed to attract) at least as many elsewhere.

I was a Pawlenty, then Perry, then Romney supporter. (Like Ace, except I dropped Perry sooner, when he joined Newt on the anti-Bain crusade).

Pawlenty stupidly dropped out before the fight even began; Perry was killed by his performance in the debates. I don't think anyone else up there had a chance, politically speaking, to win the general election against Obama.

Gingrich would've been fun, in many ways. (And probably would've done better than Santorum; Santorum-through-MSM-filter would've been like having Akin at the top of the ticket). But look how Newt cracked under pressure (e.g. the infamous press conference); he lacked Romney's discipline and focus. For superficial reasons, he would've repelled a lot of people (Romney went a long ways to closing the gender gap with women; Newt would've likely expanded it). The MSM would have dragged him through the mud, through shit.

Hypothetically, Pawlenty and Perry would've done better than Romney. But would they? If one was so lily-livered he dropped out at the first skirmish (Pawlenty), and the other so unprepared-- unpracticed-- for the national stage as Perry appeared to be at the debates, that counterfactual doesn't seem so plausible.

If the explanation for Perry's performance was the back surgery/ pain issues, then that was really bad luck for the nation indeed.

588 594 entropy,

You're about as interesting as yesterday's corn and live in the same place.

589 Sven, put down the meade.

590 viking joke

591 Let the Dems do whatever they want. The people demanded it. Let the base gird their loins for when the Gods of the Copybook Headings come off of their coffee break and give the people what they asked for.

592 597 nip,

I get tired of Entropy's class warfare bullshit.

If we go that road go full retard and try to peel off the private sector unions from the Public sector unions.

I don't like it but the "MATH!" side of me thinks that may be a play.

Goddamned free shit army.

Fuck it let it burn

593 @581

So you want to continue to lose elections then?  Brain-dead vag issue voters love them some abortions.  This election had the widest gender gap in history, because single women have fallen prey to feminism.  The government is their husband now, no need for those evil, angry men in their lives, just have as much consequence free sex as you want!

Let them abort away their little commies, while conservative women continue to raise strong families.  Let's win the demographics war by using their own bullshit against them.  It's either that, or continue to be torpedoed by the Akins of the world.

594 I live in CA and my vote for Mitt was a mandate vote only. In some States your GOP vote plays no role in the final outcome.

595 599 Cobalt Shiva,

Yup.

Keep your hands off my freedoms like speech and guns and give it ALL to them.

Let it burn.

596 You're about as interesting as yesterday's corn and live in the same place. Ok...

597 Nothing at all about labor unions?

I guess we've already conceded gay marriage and marijuana.

598 601 1984 in Real Life,

the only problem is their husband likes to fuck me in the ass too but yeah....

they try to steal our kids at school and import mexico's for a reason team....

burn it all my kid can help rebuild.

599 Easy - poll 1 "none of the above". Poll 2 "all of the above".

600 Stay strong, people! No matter how many months of consecutive job growth Obama achieves, we need only deny it, and none of our base will know any better because they have sealed themselves off in the right-wing bubble. And no matter how much more the rest of the world loves us when we are led by non-belligerent Democrats rather than militaristic shills for the military supply sector, we must convince ourselves that there are demonic despots licking their chops anytime our president greets a foreign leader with a handshake. Also, we must continue to insist that there is a massive race war being led by the left, even though this really just exists in the mind of delusional right-wing blog addicts. Also, we must keep denying that the stock market always seems to get better when the left is in charge, and always seems to collapse when the right is in charge. When Obama isn't black powering around he's always talking about leninist-based overthrow of world governments via the UN. He moves between these two worlds seamlessly my friends. We must be vigilant, because most of the "real" Obama is beneath the surface, and all the MSM don't see it. So no matter how normal of a president, no matter how bipartisan he acts, no matter how generous and kind he seems, we must remain paranoid and freaked out that just beneath the surface he is probably satan. I know what you're thinking, it's exhausting to force oneself to be outraged all the time. We all get outrage fatigue, especially when there isn't much to be outraged about. This is best handled by clutching your little right-wing radios and getting even deeper into your conspiracy theories. Try combining your conspiracy theories thusly: now Obama's marauding death panels will be staffed exclusively by Black Panthers, and they will focus on readers of hate-blog readers like those of this blog. See how personalizing it makes it all the more scarier, plus you're combining scary stuff like death panels and Black Panthers, which is exponentially scarier than those things on their own!

601 '84, I know you think you are being clever, but, 2 words: illegal aliens. I mean fuck.

602 Goddamned free shit army. You really are detached from reality in a little socon bubble or something. I can't figure out any other way 'not wanting to bail out billionaires with money borrowed from China against the public debt' qualifies as belonging to the "Free Shit Army". Companies like Archer Daniels Midland, Bank of America and GE are generals in the Free Shit Army. Why do you want to continue to give poor people's money and our children's future to oligarchical corporate billionaires who bribed our corrupt politicians?

603 I voted "Taxes and Spending" because of the "spending" but I would trade raising taxes for draconian spending cuts. What I WON'T do is support a "tax hike today and we promise to cut spending over ten years" plan. No draconian spending cuts, no deal. In fact, I would want to see spending cuts for a couple of years first before I agreed to the tax cuts. Because it's real easy to reverse spending cuts and real hard to reverse tax increases. But if we got the spending cuts -- REAL spending cuts -- first? I'd be willing to consider tax increases, to pay off the debt that is going to crush my children's future.

604 611 A tax that won't go away? The deuce you say.

605 Posted by: Patterico at November 10, 2012 07:07 PM (4hYpF) There will be no real cuts until it is way too late. I say tax and spend with abandon. Make the Machine implode. Let me be clear. I want an economic upheaval that will make the Great Depression look like a Sunday picnic. And I want it now. Why? To get it over with. Bite the stick, cut off the limb - or die from gangrene. We are way past the anti-biotic therapy stage.

606 I would have won if it werent for them RINOS and Party Bosses. we are the true majority. as to the magic uterus- I just said it, but most of us believe init we just keep it quiet, and if the science says were wrong providence tells us we are right. all them German women that got pregnant after the fall of Berlin were just hookers. thanks to all you guys on Ace that defended me. Im now gonna be the new spokesman for Mens Hair Club

607 Go into a poor black inner city neighborhood. You won't be able to find where any of that reckless spending went. There's potholes in the road bigger than meteor craters. I broke a front rim driving through Robbins, IL. But yet, rich urban yuppy liberals on the gold coast, who have more money then I'll ever see, let alone most of the people in Robbins, get the government to spend it's money to build them fucking bike paths through the park with government money. You going to tell me that's not a class issue? That poor people who see this shouldn't be fucking pissed at the rich yuppies get free shit from the government that sucks their neighborhoods dry and strangles it with regulation? Do rich people's kids ever go to jail for pot? I don't think so.

608 Posted by: Bazookas4eva at November 10, 2012 07:03 PM (rz+tv) Eat shit, pinko.

609 Posted by: entropy at November 10, 2012 07:16 PM (YUttk) Democrat propaganda works. It is madness and it works.

610 605 Nothing at all about labor unions?

I guess we've already conceded gay marriage and marijuana.
Posted by: T.J.

You conceded alcohol a long time ago -- are you running to bring back Prohibition?  No.  So why hang your hat on cannabis?  Let the states decide (just as the Constitution provides for alcohol).  That'll get you a lot more voters than prohibition.

611 You think all the moochers and the looters live in Cleveland and got Obamapho for their troubles? What about those rich ivy league assholes who ran off with all the money from all those Solyndra debacles? You think any of them are poor now? They drive their Mercedes to Whole Foods and buy arugala with their EBT card. They don't give a fuck if the economy implodes to the size of a pea. They've already got more money than their dipshit children can waste.

612 Some of you should read the history of the Russian revolution and early years of the Communist party.  It's fascinating and quite insightful.

613 Are you serious? While unscientific, I can't believe most voters, who can easily be Democratic shills, voted to compromise on abortion. This nation is truly lost!!!

614 Romney went after Obama because he picks losers. He should have went after Obama because he picked his friends. The alternative Romney offered is that his friends had better business skills basically, so the buddies he gave billions in sugar would have built successful corporate empires with it instead of going bankrupt. Obama's got bad skills. He made it an argument about efficiency, rather than decry the whole wretched concept. You've heard Good Government? He ran on Good Corruption (as opposed to incompetent corruption).

615
here's an idea: call your rep
Posted by: soothsayer





My Representative is a Democrat -- who just got reelected with 75% of the vote in the Romney landslide.

Think he'll listen?  Maybe if I send along one of the edible fruit arrangements.....

616 "Stay strong, people! No matter how many months of consecutive job growth Obama achieves, we need only deny it"

Better trolls, please.

Question: how many nonfarm-payroll jobs were there at the end of the month that Obama took the oath of office?

Answer: 133,561,000.

Question: how long did it take for jobs under Obama to surpass this mark?

Answer: 44 months. Nearly his entire term was spent getting back just to where he was when he started.

And, in order for this to happen, several million people had to drop out of the labor force. Where they remain, unemployed and immiserated. With no prospects of returning to employment at any time in the future. Job growth under Obama has been the weakest of any President in history. On average, a typical month under Obama hasn't even had job growth strong enough to keep up with the rate of growth of new entrants to the labor pool.

Lotteries are a tax on people who are bad at math.

Obama is popular with people who are bad at math and economics.

617 Rich Liberal kids never go to jail for pot while the poor Liberal black kids, who the Rich Liberal families claim to care for, constantly end up in jail. The truth is that middle class Liberals and rich Liberals care about......??? themselves and their own skin. As someone already said, Liberals use government to get bike paths in their nice neighborhoods, beautiful parks to be torn down and rebuilt to look even more beautiful in their nice neighborhoods. Go to Boston, Chicago and other well off neighborhoods, government has been used in those neighborhoods to give the Liberal rich and middle class the best they could get while the poor black and latino kids that the Liberals claim to care for have horrible neighborhoods.

618 Truth is, if democrats can divide you with wedge issues, like contraception or abortion, you lose. These debates are over for the majority. Cling to the minority base evangelicals - whom only 72% of votes casted by evangelicals, voted for republican candidates - yes other concerns like poverty and environment did play a part in their desertion, then you fall into the old white man trap. But that is against republican election narrative, which was comprehensively abolished by polls pre election....Which you choose to ignore - unless you want to subscribe to a massive conspiracy, far beyond the 911 truthers, and the moon landings.

619 620 SFGoth,

remember last year when i discussed Sydney Reilley?

Yeah exactly.

Fuck it let it burn and then cut off the head of the snake as it slinks to safety.

620 The USA will soon look like Illinois. All the Liberal "great" economic and social policies, laws etc. are being put into place here. Illinois is dead last, out of the 50 States in economics and pretty much the same in education. when Pat Quinn was elected our Governor he raised our State income taxes, this is two years ago. We were promised that Illinois deficit and debt would be controlled through higher taxes....guess what has happened? Illinois is now talking about the Federal government bailing the State out since the tax hikes did not work. But do idiotic Liberals learn? NO!!!! They want to implement the same type of Liberal economic plan which destroyed the State of Illinois nation wise. Pathetic! I am fighting Liberals on facebook, face to face, writing to my idiotic DICK Durbin, etc. If we give up, it will be our children who suffer. I will never throw in the towel.

621 There are a faction within the GOP that loves their commission with the Free Shit Army, but wishes the army were smaller so they could get even more free shit. Like Shakespear wrote; No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour as one man more methinks would share from me. For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more! They vote for free shit for rich people but vote against free shit for poor black people. What else are people to conclude when you want to cut food stamps but demand we MUST bail out billionaires? They don't want to bail out student's loans but demand we MUST fluff Iowan corn farmers with ethanol? We might not have enough money for Medicaid but we will beg, borrow or steal to fund the next military adventure in Asia and keep the entire defense industry employed full time while everyone else gets laid off? Run of the mill Republicans don't make (and probably can't make) any credible argument against free shit on principle. They just look like hacks trying to hog the pie.

622 You're all right-liberal fools.  Abortion?  Taxes?  Voter ID?  Demography is destiny, and we've been f**ked since Kennedy and Cellar's '65 immigration act.  Oh, I realize respectable repukes don't dare go there; their heads would explode if they actually thought about the realities of race.  And, of course, this is such a deeply conservative website, after all.

623 Does 626 make any sense?

624 Guys, Voter Fraud and Voter ID are different things. The problem is the poll workers, not the fake voters.

625 "Truth is, if democrats can divide you with wedge issues, like contraception or abortion, you lose."

Exactly.  That is why at the FEDERAL level we need a common philosophy.  Abortion and contraception should be state issues, not federal.

626 Sometimes the "Let it Burn" idea sounds to me like a petulant teenager threatening to move out- I wonder if they've really thought this thing through very well.

627 Could we have some sense of perspective,please? This was not a landslide--it was a close election, and it was only close because the media has been lying and covering up for Obama. I agree, there's a big part of the electorate that's hopeless, but it's a lot less than half. We have all been talking about the possibility of a stolen election, we know there's a good chance that if Sandy hadn't happened (or if Romney's software hadn't crashed) Romney would be announcing his new cabinet. Don't give up on the American people yet.

628 "Demography is destiny, and we've been f**ked since Kennedy and Cellar's '65 immigration act"

The 2012 GOP response. You know we really should double down on allowing the wretched into our country, sure it will quicken our descent into a third world shithole, but we might win an election or something.

629 634 Dave, Dave it can't be stopped and the American people failed to punish the donks for their kamikaze actions 2001-2009. Embrace the blaxe.

630 Go to Boston, Chicago and other well off neighborhoods, government has been used in those neighborhoods to give the Liberal rich and middle class the best they could get while the poor black and latino kids that the Liberals claim to care for have horrible neighborhoods. I do wonder. Some of these communities have been locked in poverty basically forever. If we doubled spending that actually WENT to them and cut the money embezzled by the political class, we might have enough to balance the budget despite the welfare. And if we actually used that cash to pursue welfare policies that actually helped them rise instead of fostering dependency and keeping them where they are, those neighborhoods might get better and then we might find some tanner Republicans. We might think the low-info urban minority Obamapho voter is kind of stupid and ill-informed. Well, the graduation rate in her neighborhood is probably below 50%. You should be pushing school choice reforms like a motherfucker, all day long. There are 2 groups of people the "Economy" issue doesn't matter dick to - the people who already have more money then they will ever need, the rich isolated yuppy liberals, and the people who have no money and no employment prospects whatsoever anyway. Put them in private schools and teach them how the economy works so they can be a part of it, maybe they will start giving a shit about it.

631 636 lowandslow, Abolish the INS why just mexicans? A US w/out Locke is not the US thus burn it up.

632 Hey DAve, I asked you earlier to explain how one of my posts was as racist as a Stormfront troll's, and you didn't get around to it. Ready to apologize yet?

633 Gun Control and Taxation, that is my breaking point.

I am living below the poverty line right now. But suddenly if I make a million dollars I am in the top 1% and they wanna tax me out the wazoo. Completely unfair. Want to tax someone? Tax old money, like the Romney's, the Bush's, the Kennedy's and such, but someone who got in their after long work, hell no.

Gun Control. It is fine for them to coddle criminals as victims in and of themselves. But hey numbnuts, they are criminals with no respect for the law or the rights of others. So when you release the convict with 20 years of crime behind him, how about you hedge your bets and let the people carry guns in case he faked his reform?

Those two things are what I am willing to slice throats over.

634 Burke, think bigger dude. If you were a crook, would you allow your competition to play on a even field , or would you skew the field to ensure victory? Think bigger, think devious. It's over. No going back now. Remember, Romney gave some dudes wife cancer.

635 "This was not a landslide--it was a close election"

What?  332-206, that is not a close election.

636 Holger, you ARE aware that Romney gave all of his "old money" to charity and started out with nothing, right?

637 Hey Sven  I suspect that much of the "victory" is explainable by voter fraud and we'd best exhaust that avenue before we draw any extreme conclusions.  No one has more ammo than me but I have to sleep sometimes- being just outright vicious is helpful in burn it down scenarios and most of the best people I know just aren't that.  Even more importantly, thanks for not assuming that i was just trying to be a dick.  Mad props-

638 "Abolish the INS why just mexicans?"

I can't read incoherent gibberish.

639
I do wonder. Some of these communities have been locked in poverty basically forever. If we doubled spending that actually WENT to them and cut the money embezzled by the political class, we might have enough to balance the budget despite the welfare.


And if we actually used that cash to pursue welfare policies that actually helped them rise instead of fostering dependency and keeping them where they are, those neighborhoods might get better and then we might find some tanner Republicans.

===========


You seriously think the black leaders WANT those people out of poverty?  You are delusional.  They want them dependent and they've destroyed the black family to keep them that way.

640 Homosexual marriage and abortion. Neither will bankrupt the nation, President Choom Gang will.

641 645 dave, Yes it is but on reflection the fraud and the silent defacto collusion in it by 30 GOP governors not nailing perps is part of the desire to hand Barry the zippo. You won show me Barry.

642 You seriously think the black leaders WANT those people out of poverty? You are delusional. They want them dependent and they've destroyed the black family to keep them that way. So? Of course they do. I know that. What's that got to do with anything? If you ask a mother if she wants her child to be educated and have opportunities, she says yes. If you make it so she can send her kid to a good school, she probably will. It doesn't matter if the CBC and Jesse Jackson support or not.

643 Hey Palandine I didn't see it.  Anyways you'd be off to a better start not acting like you're some aggrieved victim- I didn't think your post was racist, anymore than the post that Sweep did.  I was contrasting the treatment you two received.  You said that you didn't contribute to the Mexican poor because they voted to (I forget your exact words) screw you over.  With which I completely agree.  Sweep's post was about blacks and all of a sudden the banhammer gestapo started calling for their mamas.  That's what i was poijting out and that's all I meant.  So no apology, but I admire your approach as outlined in that post and I agree 100%.  Thanks for asking and I hope this clears that up-

644 Plenty of states have Republicans in control and urban city schools that are fail shit. School choice reforms could be to the GOP what immigration is to the dems, a long term key to their demographic destiny.

645 646 lowandslow, T'ain't gibberish oldboy abolish the INS let 'em all in why shouldn't China get in on the fun? 30 million asians, add in 20 million Africans we may finally go full Bosnia. Let it burn.

646
Tax old money, like the Romney's
Posted by: Holger

Holger, you ARE aware that Romney gave all of his "old money" to charity and started out with nothing, right?
Posted by: Palandine





If you're talking about the bequest from his father,  he died in 1995 after Mitt was already a millionaire x 100. And Mitt gave that inheritance to BYU, which is like keeping it in the family.

So, started out with nothing is a bit of a reach.

647 What's that got to do with anything? If you ask a mother if she wants her child to be educated and have opportunities, she says yes. If you make it so she can send her kid to a good school, she probably will. It doesn't matter if the CBC and Jesse Jackson support or not.

Posted by: entropy at November 10, 2012 08:00 PM (YUttk)

It's got everything to do with it.  Tell me, who is against school choice and vouchers?   What party has removed all responsibility from welfare?  What party thrives on grievance? 

648 DAve, I'm a lady, and I expect you to act like a gentleman. I said I no longer gave to a church envelope specifically for poor Hispanic people because they'd voted to confiscate money out of my pocket. The person you compared me to went on a Stormfront fantasy about African-Americans wanting to rape white women and so on. The fact that you cannot discern a difference there speaks far more to you than to me. I believe I'll join with others who find you a s**t-stirrer of the first order and give your opinions the attention they deserve.

649 It's got everything to do with it. Tell me, who is against school choice and vouchers? What party has removed all responsibility from welfare? What party thrives on grievance? So? Why do you think I am saying we should prioritize finding a way to break around it? If the governor offers school vouchers at the state level, the mayor can't really do shit to stop his constituents from educating their kids.

650 Mitts money wasnt old. his father was self made , so it is only second generation

651 And you can and should have people going door to door in inner city neighborhoods talking to the single mothers about a way to get their kids into ritzy college prep schools without having to pay for it.

652 If the governor offers school vouchers at the state level, the mayor can't really do shit to stop his constituents from educating their kids.

Posted by: entropy at November 10, 2012 08:05 PM (YUttk)

Dem teachers unions will not allow it.  Did you watch Chicago in early Sept?  Who won?  Now imagine that statewide. Who wins?

653 Mitts money wasnt old. his father was self made , so it is only second generation Um, Mitt Romney's great-grandfather was a FLDS patriarch with 5 wives and 30 kids. He wasn't hurting, he went down to Mexico to escape US polygamy laws and basically founded his own settlement. His grandfather did something similar I think. You probably gotta go back a lot of generations of Romneys to find one eating cat food.

654 Dem teachers unions will not allow it. Did you watch Chicago in early Sept? Who won? Now imagine that statewide. Who wins? In Alabama? In Georgia? Virginia? Did you think there was no black people there?

655 662 Tami, The flames.

656 Not that it's even black people really. It's urban poor.

657
Did you think there was no black people there?

Posted by: entropy at November 10, 2012 08:11 PM (YUttk)

Do you think there are no teacher's unions in those states?

658

Ok, here's my plan going forward from 11/06/2012

All immigrants here illegally can gain US Citizenship, as long as they did not vote on 11/6/2012

If they did vote illegally, then they and their entire families will be deported by whatever means necessary

If they worked for a "Union" that made them vote, then that Union shall be dissolved immediately and forever-more, and those leaders of the union, from the top members down to the local representativcs shall be deported by whatever means necessary and made non-citizens of the United States.

Those "Unions" shall be forever declared illegal. All other members of said :Unions" will no longer be members.

 

659 Do you think there are no teacher's unions in those states? What the fuck is your plan, harakiri? You scared of taking on unions?

660 Just run a retarded, gay, cripple, black Mexican with a Che' shirt.

661 You think there are no unions in Wisconsin? Well... not for long their ain't. There aren't any in Indiana...

662 The cycle of civilization: Man begins his existence as a scratchy serf, and rises: from serfness through getting a clue, from getting a clue to badassery, from badassery to kickassery, from kickassery to bling, from bling to couch potato from couch potato to thumbsucking idiot, from thumbsucking idiot to his fat grubbies in everybody's pie, from his fat grubbies in everbody's pie to running out of other people's money from running out of other people's money back into serfness.

663 What the fuck is your plan, harakiri? You scared of taking on unions?

Posted by: entropy at November 10, 2012 08:16 PM (YUttk)

The only person that's taken on unions is Scott Walker.  Did he get school choice or vouchers?

664 Did he get school choice or vouchers? Was that "Yes" to the harakiri?

665 672 mero, Yup....dunno how drones factor in...but yeah.

666 There aren't any in Indiana...

Posted by: entropy at November 10, 2012 08:16 PM (YUttk)

There are no teacher's unions in Indiana?

667 You don't need my permission, you know. Just jab it right in there if you want to.

668 It's all about the flow of money and power. The system is rigged. You can't fix it. It must be brought down.

669 676 Tami, Shhh let him go on he's rolling...heh. Ohio was probably fraud stolen b/c the Guv got hurt by unions. Let it burn.

670

Unless Romney came about his wealth illegally, who cares? What, are we Democrats already? Is the only possible leader some rags-to-riches guy (but not too much riches, only maybe slightly riches)? Stop the madness.

671 It must be brought down. Posted by: eman at November 10, 2012 08:22 PM (sRus3) And all of history screams, "this will make it worse." The long run doesn't care, it's just a question of how long it takes to get to mass graves, and how they die - fire or "standard of care" panels.

672 It's all about the flow of money and power. The system is rigged. You can't fix it. It must be brought down. Yup. I really don't care how, but one way or another I've known for years that in the end, it must all burn. From within, or from without. Doesn't matter. Either way, flames.

673 680 Unless Romney came about his wealth illegally, who cares? What, are we Democrats already? Posted by: Cowboy at November 10, 2012 08:23 PM (WcgMM) We are all Democrats now. The bad news is we're already out of other people's money and pogroms and purges are next, the good news is Free Love is back on the table! Woo-hoo!

674 Ahrm Palandine well I tried but you seem to be obsessed with playing aggrieved victim of big bad wolf me.  You recalled exactly what you said, and I'd say mine was a reasonable paraphrase.  I even endorsed it.  If there was some rape fantasy i must have missed it, and i would condemn it, but your response is bordering on unladylike.  I told you why I said what I did, I showed there was no malice involved in it, and your response seems "uncharitable" at best.  Sorry i didn't know your gender I guess but how I didn't act like a gentleman I certainly can't see.  Sorry if your clique doesn't approve of me I try my best to be worthy of approval-

675 We can't get what we want because we are too few and are scattered about, unable to focus our power.

676 And all of history screams, "this will make it worse." So bringing down the British Monarchy made liberty in America worse, did it now? If this was 1776, what can you say to me to make me think you wouldn't be a royalist with that mentality?

677 681 mero, I wasted a lot of years foolishly trying to save drunks from themselves....Show me Barry. Let it burn

678

 

I'm not giving up on any of the pollicy positions.

 

I must, however, admit I was wrong about the election.  I wrote here rather tartly (with a shot or two at Ace) a couple of times that Romney would carry my native Ohio, period.

 

He didn't, period.  Not even Hamilton County, my home and the former GOP bastion.

 

I'm not sure why Nate Silver and his algorithms should get so much attention when Ace's gut (and those of other posters here) had the same prediction for most of the campaign.

 

As for the future, if it's any consolation my 22 year-old daughter (an education major, no less) iseven  more distraught about the results than I am.

679 According to Sun Tzu, you cannot win what you are not willing to risk losing. You can't win victory if you're not willing to risk defeat, you can only hope to fight to a stand still.

680
Yup.


I really don't care how, but one way or another I've known for years that in the end, it must all burn.


From within, or from without. Doesn't matter. Either way, flames.

Posted by: entropy at November 10, 2012 08:24 PM (YUttk)

Wait....what?  Then WTF are you blabbering about?

681 Somebody on election day in one the threads (I think it was Rambo) said he'd shave his ass if Romney lost Ohio. Well, pics or it didn't happen!

682 3 Things:

Let it burn people: how do we know this isn't going to turn into a 20 years of hell like in Japan? Lets make 'Let it Burn' a .. option D.

People who think populism is too icky to start: As entropy mentioned, large companies like GE are currently 100% crony and on the government teet as much as the welfare queens. We need to stop blanket protecting them and make it 100% clear like the a theoretical new abortion stance what the national policy is: no welfare for GE ( for instance )

Last: IRC! I'm sooo lonely on the irc channel #AOSHQ on freenode.net (http://webchat.freenode.net/)

683

@688 NCC

He carried Stark County Ohio, in the Northeast ( almost Northeast ) Rustbelt

684 Unless Romney came about his wealth illegally, who cares? What, are we Democrats already? Is the only possible leader some rags-to-riches guy (but not too much riches, only maybe slightly riches)? Stop the madness. The point is, even many republicans could have told you back during the primary that Romney's whole persona, fairly or not, screamed Goldman Sach's. And that is not really a popular thing with the average joe.

685 688 NCC, Yeah Hamilton is when I knew we lost it. I quit the state. I wasn't born into New Detroit and I owe it no loyalty.

686

@668 NCC

The "fix" was in. Several precints in Cuyahoga had over 100% of registered voters counted and those precincts went 99.9 % Bronca Bama

687 Wait....what? Then WTF are you blabbering about? Do you only speak in riddles? What are you blabbering about? All I see is questions? Was that a question? Could it be rubbing off? Which mammal has the largest ballsack relative to body mass?

688 Funny how Republicans are always eager to take advice from people who will never vote Republican. Funny how these people always tell Republicans to embrace abortion, embrace amnesty, embrace tax increases. You never hear them telling their own party to embrace spending cuts.

689 That would be me

690 692 dante, I don't care if it takes 20 years or 20 hours. Trust me as soon as able I will punish the mule corps with no money.

691

The Attorney General of Ohio should declare the election results null till voter fraud issues are taken out of the equation

 

692 Some have said, "I don't want it to burn because I am too young and I have a life to lead." Actually you want the cliff to come earlier rather than later. It's better if happens when you are young, actually. You wanna be an old man in the Thunderdome? IF the cliff is coming, you always want it sooner. And, between a cliff and a slow burn, you want the cliff. You rebuild after you hit bottom off the cliff. During the slow burn you sit there, in pain, and sit there. Sit there. Sit there ... Never getting better, but always slowly worse.

693 sven:

I'm personally worried about the idea that if things collapse the obama voters will go the "Strong Man" route, and end us up with a dictator.

Because of that, I am going to fight to the end.

694 The "let it burn" approach is not sound, it would just enable the Democratic machine. Yes, there will be a collapse, but its not going to be a New Republic built from the ashes, it will be a Marxist Dystopia. Am I the only one who sees this? Liberal policies are engineered to destroy the American way of life, "let it burn" will just allow them to skip a few steps on their path to New Order.

695 Hayek agrees with Dante

696 703 dante, It'll clarify things...clarity helps. Guess what I think we're there already.

697 Yeah, to answer the original post's questions marks you as a dumb loser, so what is your info so I can get money from you without you knowing it? Because only idiots let dumb loser's take their money and bitch about it. Only idiots do that. We on the right all do it.

698

Let it burn......but leave it beforehand.

Secede.

 

699 W.H - based on other collapses I've looked at, I wouldn't guarantee that, but it's certainly as far as I can tell .. not .. a get out of jail free card.

700 "I must, however, admit I was wrong about the election. I wrote here rather tartly (with a shot or two at Ace) a couple of times that Romney would carry my native Ohio, period."

I just flinched every time people were talking about Romney winning Ohio and/or Michigan.

Bailing out Detroit was economic insanity.

And Romney was correct to criticize the way Obama was preparing to do the bailout. Basically, the bailout and everything since prove that Romney was right. At least it proves that to economically literate people who aren't in the auto union food chain.

But OH and MI are full of economic illiterates who are in the auto union food chain. And the instant the bailout went through, Romney's objections to it made him fatally damaged goods there.

Especially that "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" headline on his advocacy article.

No, Romney didn't want these companies to vanish in bankruptcy. He wanted them to reorganize and continue operating. Yes, those companies did go bankrupt after all under the Obama plan.

But consider trying to explain the difference between a Chapter 11 reorganization bankruptcy and a Chapter 7 liquidation bankruptcy to your typical upper Midwest high school graduate blue collar voter.

You'd get farther trying to explain general relativity to a goldfish.

I remember some years back visiting a friend who lived in Dayton and whose dad was UAW. There was a UAW political pamphlet on the kitchen counter. It was a comic book, literally. What words there were were at a seventh grade level. And these people vote. Early and often.

701 Let it burn people: how do we know this isn't going to turn into a 20 years of hell like in Japan? Lets make 'Let it Burn' a .. option D. Posted by: dantealiegri at November 10, 2012 08:31 PM (mHU03) Japan Hell, more like France. Huge piles of burning bodies. Americans don't do anything small. More like option ZZZZZ but like I said, we're going that direction *now*, just slower.

702 After checking the above thread, I honestly believe there is no hope.

703 sven:
It will certainly be clairty for all the people who "didn't like romney because he was too icky",  but I fear that for the clueless, it won't be clarity, but confusion, and they will reach to the person who says they can fix it, the loudest.

704 704 WH doubter, They didn't disarm W Loisiana after Rita. Why? They may have gotten them in intervals. Let it burn and let the blue states go full tard.

705 Attack of the clones is surprisingly good on tv

706 Ronster: nonsense, we're having this argument right after the election rather than at the primaries. This is progress.

707 GOP Elite's Answer to #1: All of the above

GOP Elite's Answer to #2: None of the above

They don't call them the Stupid Party for nothing.

708 Ronster: nonsense, we're having this argument right after the election rather than at the primaries. This is progress.

Posted by: dantealiegri at November 10, 2012 08:47 PM (mHU03)

 

I said the thread above this one. Not this thread.

709 Oh the Ad Council. Rejoice! The Ad Council solved all their ills by mainstreaming leftist views via the public airways at public expense in multitudes - including our paying for them to say their message and our all paying the price for them speaking their message so effectively - and our happy Republicans in the House will use their power of the purse to make NPR and PBS (Note: Firing Line, a program so fine they may, justly, feel being nothing but leftist hacks in order to level the field), Rush's show, Levin's show, Beck's show, O'Reilly's [when he had] show, etc... All talk radio listeners still had to hear our taxes pay for Ad Council LiberalLeftistMarxist messages spoken by people paid to disrespect us.

710 713 dante, Maybe, thing is I am finally ready emotionally to let the flag catch up to the document. The blue will go full tard and I'll go where liberty lives.

711 Look Tami, I've been in the small camp that thinks our best shot is to repurpose Cloward-Piven for at least a few years. But just because I think that should happen doesn't mean it will happen. I don't know if conservatives are about to burn it all down, and unlike sven, I don't have any odd delusions about me actually controlling everything and determining where the country goes. You want to Cloward-Piven it, go for it, I'm down. Want to go Galt, go for it, I'm down. Most likely though, Republicans will still be around in a year. So I say they should push school choice hard, they should turn into the populist right. Throw the cronies overboard and call out the dems on corruption. Do I think they actually will? No not really. I don't think they're capable as Republicans, the whole institution is far too indebted to Christian Socialism and in their own way, they're just as hooked on Free Shit as Obamapho lady is. Like I said, I don't care how. I just know that in the end, we are fighting to burn the motherfucker down, one way or another. Anything other than the status quo works for me. Try anything, so long as you try something besides what we've always done.

712 The only question I have about the Let It Burn mentality rests on if it's inevitable. If we're going to go out, shall it be via a bang or a whimper? In that scenario, I'd prefer the bang. But that whole thing is based on a hypothetical: "If we're going to go out". I expect to see gains, real gains, on the following fronts. Note that during my lifetime (I'm 45), I have never seen progress on any of them. This includes during Reagan's time. 1) Movement towards a smaller government; 2) Entitlement reform; 3) large scale elimination of scads of harmful regulations and red tape. For starters. They are all necessary. Never happened, once, ever, during my lifetime. Even during Reagan (his was a heroic effort, but of 'slow the rate of increase'). Been waiting for any of it to happen just once.

713

The "let it burn" strategy is a bit of a worry. That's their goal. They aren't aiming for euro style socialism. They want more than that in the US particularly, for a number of reasons and the conditions are ripe. A total collapse will provide the setting for something terrible that won't be a mere transition. It will be a lasting thing that could take generations to overturn. Whatever one hopes to achieve in such a hell won't be possible. The communists have to be fought, or, get the hell out before the shit gets really real.

 

714 722 - That's the thing, it's not going to end in a bang. Just a long, torturous decline.

715 723 otho, Who says it's about anything other than speed and clarity? This is not about saving the status quo it's about giving the states the chance to eject.

716 I'll tell you this much. Assuming we survive the next 4 years, a great many left-of-center people are about to experience Bush 2nd term from the perspective of a conservative. They won't be pleased. And half of us will find out what it's like to have politics drive you to the point of needing a psychiatrist.

717 719 twoslaps  True dat

718 2016 is doomed

719 Our "leaders" pay for libs to hate us. They do. We are dumb.

720 starve the beast.

721 721 entropy, What odd delusions? If you think Texas and Louisiana will look like NYC after thepork cannons stop good luck. I choose humble real wealth and freedom let tne blue tax their way to wealth.

722 @726:"And half of us will find out what it's like to have politics drive you to the point of needing a psychiatrist." -- ...or perhaps what it's like to have politicians diagnose you as needing a psychiatrist. Remember, we merely think Liberals have the wrong policies. They, however, think we're evil, emotionally unbalanced, and hazardous to the public at large.

723 Who says it's about anything other than speed and clarity?

This is not about saving the status quo it's about giving the states the chance to eject.

 

Posted by: sven10077 at November 10, 2012 08:55 PM

 

Secession? It does sound like decent option and it may work. It may be the only way to go. However, when the shit hits the fan they way they want it, all bets are off and independence, even if done and dusted will probably count for nothing. They'll still come for you. Better to go out with style, though, that's for sure.

 

724 So the Bush tax cuts had a "sunset" provision.

And they did sunset, and Obama reauthorized them, to sunset again this year.

Great. Steal that concept. Give Obama tax hikes. Fat ones. With immediate effect. Retroactive to the start of this year. Except, they will be temporary taxes with their own sunset provision. Which sunset the day he leaves office. He won't give a shit what happens after his own self is out of town.

That'll bone the economy good and hard for his last four years. Capital will just hunker down defensively in tax shelters. No one will get hired. Stagnation, pure and simple.

Obama will then leave in 2016 with the worst economic record of any two-term President in history. It won't be possible to excuse or explain it away except for the most rabid Kool-Aid chuggers.

It inoculates the GOP against the charge of "obstructionism".

And it sets us up for a shot at recovery and growth after 2016.

Is this an optimal plan? No. Optimal would have been, well, DEFEATING OBAMA. But since the Romney MBA/consultant brain trust fucked that up, with an assist from the Akin socons, this is the fallback plan.

725 733 Otho, I don't think they will come to the swamp for what little I aim to have. In the end the locusts use lists, stay low on it and draw no notice early. Hot or cold, free shit army likes comfort so live uncomfortably.

726 @733:"Secession?" -- Oh crap...if anyone in any authoritative capacity merely hinted of having heard someone else speak of the idea, that's a green light for the following chain of illogic: Secession => Civil War => Slavery => RACIST!!!! Of course, they'd say that anyone, but that's just part of conditioning people to accept the charge as plausible because they've heard it so much, so it must be true. But seriously, when you look at the electoral maps and see the broad swaths of Red and tiny Blue areas at the periphery, you kind of have to wonder whether or not it makes sense...

727 641  ...Want to tax someone? Tax old money, like the Romney's, the Bush's, the Kennedy's and such, but someone who got in their after long work, hell no.

******
Romney earned his money.  He gave away his inheritance, remember?

I guess not.

But on the merits:  how, exactly, do you justify taxing "old money", and how do you define it?  If that $$ represents reinvestment income, it was taxed already, maybe several times.  If it's property , then do you want the rich to sell their property to pay their taxes, the way some farmers and small businesses do when their own dies and his estate has to pony up?

And, of course, you seem to think that making the rich poorer makes the poor richer.

That's utterly fucked up reasoning.

728 Remember, we merely think Liberals have the wrong policies. They, however, think we're evil, emotionally unbalanced, and hazardous to the public at large. Actually I've always thought they were evil, emotionally unbalanced, and hazardous to the public at large.

729 "And it sets us up for a shot at recovery and growth after 2016.

Is this an optimal plan? No. Optimal would have been, well, DEFEATING OBAMA. But since the Romney MBA/consultant brain trust fucked that up, with an assist from the Akin socons, this is the fallback plan."


You are fucking delusional.

730 @734:"It inoculates the GOP against the charge of "obstructionism". And it sets us up for a shot at recovery and growth after 2016." -- Eh, might as well. But I think "let it burn" is a more realistic option, given the stunning success of our leadership in bending over.

731 I don't think they will come to the swamp for what little I aim to have. I'd be worried they will come to the swamp to round you up and herd you into the cities. The fact is the most valuable thing you have is you, and that is what they want.

732 With respect to the pro-Obama waiters: go to a nice enough place that the waiters are making $30+k/year. Ask your server how much he'll be paying out of pocket for Obamacare. Expected answer: "Huh? Isn't free?" Then tell him.

733 @738:"Actually I've always thought they were evil, emotionally unbalanced, and hazardous to the public at large." -- Well, I suppose you're more farsighted than the rest of us. (what's the emoticon for pathetic grin attempting to paper over disgust at the obvious truth of reality? I get the feeling I'm going to need it a lot in the upcoming years...)

734 741 entropy, Maybe of course in the end it is a profit loss equation... I plan to work on ciphering out a safe way to kill drones as a hobby...

735 I have left the Republican party. After this year's primaries, in which all the candidates attempted to out-hate the next in their draconian plans for U.S citizens. I now call it the National Republican Party of Hate, instead the party of live and let live. Hate of hard working immigrants. Hate of pro-choice people. Hate of the non-churched. Hate of those who are in need, whether veteran, young or retired, and hate of the working poor.

736 Jim Bob: why were you there in the first place .. ?

737 Jim Bob: try harder next tome.

738 Out of chaos will come one promising an end to chaos.  One promising order.

Out of meager provisions will come one promising a return to plenty.

Out of misery will come one promising a return to former glory.

Out of scrambling to find some semblance of security and safety, one will come promising strength and leadership and victory.

That someone will find scapegoats for the misery, and the meager provisions, and the chaos.  And will seek to convince the people that  if we just rid ourselves of those who are standing in our way,  our lot will improve.


We've seen this movie before. 

Let it burn sounds appealing.  But when there is no underlying moral structure to replace it, that's when evil steps in.  Because evil is real good at making the trains run on time.

739 745 Jim Bob, Yeah comrade remember when Mitt Romney daid, "voting is the best revenge?" Good riddance and good news for you. OBAMA WON! get ready I won't get in his way anymore.

740 I believe that Jim Bob is trustworthy.  Also, Fluffy went away to live on a farm.

741 I plan to work on ciphering out a safe way to kill drones as a hobby... In all seriousness, that is the right direction. We need to see drones in the hands of the people. We need drone tech distributed. And we need privacy tech. All the telcom companies are spying on us on behalf of our own government. I heard there was one guy who was working on a new ISP specifically dedicated to privacy and preventing government over-reach. I don't know if it will happen. http://tinyurl.com/clr3kpe In the grand scheme of things, OWS and Anonymous types (while certainly QUITE QUITE deluded) and Paulbots and Alex Jones Truthers too, might not be quite all the scourge a lot of right-wingers think. They ain't gonna be on Sam's side.

742 748 Mama Winger, Ma'am we've passed that find good folk and pray but I don't want Barry to get it all intact so let it burn.

743 Otho,

I don't think they will come to the swamp for what little I aim to have.

In the end the locusts use lists, stay low on it and draw no notice early.

Hot or cold, free shit army likes comfort so live uncomfortably.

 

Posted by: sven10077 at November 10, 2012 09:06 PM

 

I hear you and you're probably right on that score. But, I'm thinking of  things beyond mere locusts and lists. It will be a leviathan. A lasting interregnum, at least. Am not in any way knocking your ability to hold out. Just emphasising how how bad things will probably get for quite some time. It won't be something one can just ride out, until the population "wakes up" and things get better. They will get crazier.

 

744

No offense at your poll here.

But frankly "our side" is losing the so-called "talking points" on all of these issues. We're not winning any of these arguments right now.

Now I voted for abortion under "Over My Dead Body" for the simple reason that's it's an EASY answer. Abortion isn't going away and NOBODY should be proposing that it should. "in the case of rape, incest or harm to the mother" is the way MOST Americans view it. Agree with this AND MOVE ON! Don't give in to media speculation - HAVE A STOCK ANSWER AND MOVE ALONG! Don't get pushed around on this issue - OWN IT!

 

"Ad-Libbing Is For Amateurs"

745 Socialism is easy when you are protected by some country other than your own. When we become so constrained by budgetary concerns that we withdraw into fortress America just watch what the bad players of the world do. It will make WWII look like a minor disagreement.

746 I believe the Monkey is correct

747 When we become so constrained by budgetary concerns that we withdraw into fortress America just watch what the bad players of the world do. It will make WWII look like a minor disagreement.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 10, 2012 09:29 PM (jucos)

--------------

There's a good reason something like 85% of Americans living in Israel voted for Romney.

748 TM we call that Tuesday.

749 757 Mama Winger, Well their cousins here didn't. The good news is our defense budget is gonna go down. Bad news is our SPF 2500 suntan bill way up.

750 "Let it burn" = I believe in principles until those principles are defeated.
"I'm going Galt" = I vote for the candidate who will do the best for the country, but he lost so I no longer care about what's best for the country.

Come on, can we have a little less of the drama queen behavior and a little bit more of the "concerned conservatives coming up with a non apocalyptic plan for the future" attitude? See I Was Right And You Suffer For It wish-fulfillment fantasies are for the guys with the other yard signs.

751 The world cannot afford for America to burn. They might not know it now, but will find out rather quickly when The SHTF over here. America is/was a force that the world had never seen before. There is a lot of pent up nastiness that is about to be released.

752

I admit I have not read all 753 posts, and being so far down, doubt that few will read this. BUT  - it is not "giving in" to the Dems to do higher taxes on 250K or on Imigration. Let them have these taxes and when that does not work the Dems will have to go lower, much lower -into their base. Immigration - secure the border then green cards to citizenship for those that have clean records. 11 million illegals versus the votes. Now, that you are on fire to do something bad to me, remember this on taxes - the DEMS will OWN the economy, won't be able to run from it. An issue off the table for them against Rep, as would Immigration. Now for Abortion - folks Roe is the law, forget it, drop it, don't mention it.GETOVERIT. Another issue off the table. As for Gays, let them marry, and divorce. After all if two people want to commit to each other that is good. Too many just live together, or have kids with no resposibilities.

The REP would now be able to go after spending, fiscal restraint would be the watch word. Republicans preach about gov't on our necks, then turn around and want gov't control on abortion. Does not compute.

Ok, roast me all you want.

No I am not a troll, I voted for Republicans for a very long time, sometimes by holding my nose.

 

753

@ 626

 

My apologies, you already brought up this issue.

 

754 The biggest reason why abortion is the one that has to go is that we're fooling ourselves if we think we can go on forever simply defining our collective stance on the issue as "Well, we don't like it, but we're not going to do anything to outlaw it, but we're kind of OK with things like mandatory ultrasounds and parental notification, and, well, we don't intend to get all religious on you about everything, but God really wouldn't want you to kill this baby, so we're kind of uncomfortable about it too." The other side is always just going to say that the Republicans are anti-abortion, against a woman's right to choose, and the swing voters will believe it. Gay marriage? Yeah, we have to get on board with that yesterday. Let the Democrats be the ones trying to explain to their Black church-going constituents that they have to shut up about it. Wanna get married? Get married! Teaching evolution in schools? "Intelligent design?" We have schools that can't manage to teach kids -- and they've got them for 13 full years, plus Head Start -- to construct a coherent paragraph or do computational math. Oh, but we need to teach them the appropriate ideas to hold about the origin of life on earth. As if they will retain it. As if they could later manage to effectively communicate it to another person. I don't count myself second to anyone when it comes to being conservative, but I don't know what that term means any more. During the primaries, Rick Santorum gets up and starts going off on contraceptives. I told my wife that, in my mind, Santorum has just disqualified himself from being president. Look at all the big-picture problems that this country faces -- the exploding debt, entitlement programs that are going to crush the economy, a federal government that now can encroach on any human activity -- and you want to tell me that what's going on is contraceptives? Get the fuck out of here with that. How am I supposed to take Santorum seriously after that. He should have pulled a Gingrich and told the reporters to STFU, but he didn't. He was only too glad to spout off about contraceptives. I'm only thankful that Santorum didn't win and that I didn't have to carry water for him in endless conversations and online arguments for months, and then have to go and pull a lever for him on Nov. 6 just to vote for someone, anyone, who could beat Obama. I'm glad for that. I've seen people on here saying that if our side gives up on abortion that we can fuck ourselves and that the evangelicals and catholics will abandon us. Well, the feeling goes both ways. I for one am sick of having to defend positions on fiscal reality and national defense while the Akins and Mourdocks and Santorums go on about abortion and "family values." Because I have always had the distinct feeling that this wing of our coalition would be perfectly happy having an over-reaching government, just so long as they were the ones pulling the levers. Their side has long viewed us, the ones who talk about the constitution and about capitalism, as their useful idiots, the ones who will go out and catch the spears for them and help them advance their cause. Right near the end of the campaign, the values and culture-warrior wing was butthurt because Obama had Jay-Z on stage with him. Well, let me tell you something -- Romney had Kid Rock. I like me some Kid Rock. Believe me, there is nothing that has come out of Jay-Z's mouth that Kid Rock hasn't said 10 times worse, and I say that as a fan. Kid Rock literally has a song called "I'll Fuck You Blind." Kid Rock has said "bitch" and "ho" so many times he makes Jay-Z look like Paul Anka. And I didn't hear the culture warrior group say one damn thing about it. This idea that we don't need to reassess and re-evaluate is stupid. If your team loses a football game, putting out more effort next time is one thing, but at some point you have to address your team's strengths and weaknesses. And you might have to adjust the roster, so that you match up better against your opponent. I know that no one wants to be the one to catch the blame, but I think there are messages that work and don't work, and I know that I voted on Nov. 6 and some other people didn't.

755 When Obama drops another 10% off tax rolls what happens? That will be 57%. Over. How about GOP approved amnesty? Over. Elections no longer matter. Wormer dropped the big one.

756 760 wago whatever, Nope they picked a sack of shit. I'm on board. Barry show me.

757 764 EXACTLY

758 Because I have always had the distinct feeling that this wing of our coalition would be perfectly happy having an over-reaching government, just so long as they were the ones pulling the levers.

------------------





I am so increasingly weary of hearing this.

759 I am so increasingly weary of hearing this.

* * *

I take it you're not opposed to gay marriage?

760 Nah we need to nominate the most reactionary martian retard we can who is friends with domestic terrorists. The donks showed me. Let it burn.

761 Opposed to gay marriage? Hell no marry a fucking fire hydrant. Abolish the INS. Spend it, spend it alla, Show me Barry. Let it burn.

762 I take it you're not opposed to gay marriage?

Posted by: WAGOPinTX at November 10, 2012 09:46 PM (fXInK)

----------------

Social conservatives are not the ones pushing that agenda.  There have been marriage parameters for hundreds of years in this country.  Marriage contracts have always been between a man and a woman.  That is not a revolutionary social conservative agenda.  That is the way society has always organized itself and the way families have been constructed. 

Now a  very small minority decides to change the basic structure of that by proposing new laws and regulations that will affect us all, and agitates for it constantly in the public square ad nauseum, and if anyone has an issue with that, THEY are the ones who are advocating government overreach?

I don't buy that line of thinking.

763 I believe in principles until those principles are defeated.

764 I also don't buy the line of thinking that says abortion and contraception are personal and private decisions between me and my doctor, and hands off my body, and oh by the way, I'm sending you the bill.

765 773 moron mirror, Yup eait nope. I believe in giving folk what they want. We offered an honorable man. They picked the Butcher of Benghazi. Survival trumps my blowing a car's worth of money to be thwarted by low turnout. Get what you wanted America.

766 774 Mama Winger, Indeed neither would any libertarian. This is special I guess. I'm lost.

767 On a serious note, the not stupid see stupid examples and expound. Not good. I do it. My movement does it. Movements I belong to do it. Yet, hypocrisy accepted as racism is amongst all who shall deign to be considered human, in my book, which I specifically chose not to be a racist work.

768 So it might not cheer you up but you might find it interesting: http://tinyurl.com/bfuwasf

769 How many the countries all over the world have gay marriage?


Eleven.


I suppose that's because they are all over-run and full to the brim with so-con evangelicals.

770 November 10, 2012 09:52 PM (P6QsQ)

* * * * *

A couple points:

"There have been marriage parameters for hundreds of years in this country."

There have. And we have let many go by the wayside, without marking them as failures for conservatism. Or should we start clamoring against no-fault divorce now? 

"...by proposing new laws and regulations that will affect us all, and agitates for it constantly in the public square ad nauseum...

I'm trying to think of what these might be. Adoption has always been legal for married couples, as far as I know, and I'm not sure what new regulations same-sex couples would require that "will affect us all".

"Agitation" being assigned negative connotation sounds very authoritarian to me. Isn't your description that of the Tea Party, except with a desire to "repeal existing" as opposed to "proposing new"?

I'm not trying to tell you to stuff it or anything like that, just explaining the viewpoint that Brewdog was expressing and which has entered the minds of millions of other conservatives, I'm sure.

771 ARGH: reformatted in response to mama winger

A couple points:

"There have been marriage parameters for hundreds of years in
this country."

There have. And we have let many go by the wayside, without marking them as failures for conservatism. Or should we start clamoring against no-fault divorce now?

"...by proposing new laws and regulations that will affect us all, and agitates for it constantly in the public square ad nauseum..."

I'm trying to think of what these might be. Adoption has always been legal for married couples, as far as I know, and I'm not sure what new regulations same-sex couples would require that "will affect us all".

"Agitation" being assigned negative connotation sounds very authoritarian to me. Isn't your description that of the Tea Party, except with a desire to "repeal existing" as opposed to "proposing new"?

I'm not trying to tell you to stuff it or anything like that, just explaining the viewpoint that Brewdog was expressing and which has entered the minds of millions of other conservatives, I'm sure.

772 779 mama winger, It gets so much easier when you just let go. Gay marriage will be loved by the mad mullahs.

773 And yes, that was me above. =P

774 I also don't buy the line of thinking that says abortion and contraception are personal and private decisions between me and my doctor, and hands off my body, and oh by the way, I'm sending you the bill.

* * * * *

Would you buy that line of thinking if the bill wasn't sent to you?

775 If the Republican Party and its nominee in 2016 are perceived by the swing voters as having the same strident positions as in 2012 on these issues, we will lose: abortion (oppose, want it outlawed), gay marriage (against it), equal pay (don't care), immigration (Republicans hate brown people), federal spending (Republicans don't care about the middle class). I'm not saying it's fair. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying that those are actually our positions. But that is how we are perceived. Those are the reasons that people came out to vote for Obama on Tuesday. Those reasons might not be rational, they might not be supported by facts, but there they are. In every instance on those issues, the admittedly low-information swing voter gets to pat him or herself on the back for being compassionate and reasonable and forward-thinking. They get to perceive themselves as the ones who care. We can address that and figure out a way to turn it around, or we can watch another Democrat win. Simple as that.

776 785 brewdog, Pay women triple, abort everyone, everyone's a millionaire freeshit for all. Reagan/Marx 2016!

777 Yep.  Cleanin' the pistolas and chillin' on da ONT

778 Oh and never forget anyone can marry anything in any number.

779 786 sven I'm saying we have to change the way we are perceived. We're letting them look like the reasonable ones. They come across as the ones who are for fairness -- even though you and I know that we're the ones for fairness. If we can't change that, I guarantee that we will lose again.

780 787 Dave, Pondering taking my '51 navy conversions out for a dance.

781

Sarah Palin, Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain --- ALL of them would have brought out a higher GOP turnout than Romney.  Whether or not they would have brought more Obama turnout, I'm not sure.  Santorum probably would have been crucified by the media, but my guess is that any one of those four would have done better.

The issue is that this blog is asking suburban and urban 'conservatives' and there is a big difference in what they want and what the rural folks want.

Rural America GOP who didn't turn out to vote:  They want a small government candidate (Palin, Cain and to an extent Gingrich - not Romney or Huckabee). 

They want someone who they can believe means what they say (Any of those four - definitely NOT Romney)

They want someone who will stand up for social issues and won't shy away from a political fight (Palin, Cain, Gingrich and to an extent Huckabee - not Romney)

They don't see immigration as a social issue, they see it as a legal and economic issue - realizing that legal immigration isn't keeping pace with the supply/demand of the need for immigrant workers (Huckabee, Palin, somewhat the others).

The GOP establishment picked the one horse where the least people would come out and watch the race, it was a calculated risk that failed and those folks who make those decisions, the bloggers, Coulter, Rove, and those folks should be purged from leadership.

782 actually, i think it's time to go galt. we all should start letting the dems do whatever they want. if obama wants something stupid, then hey, he should have it let's let things all apart. let's let the economy collapse. why bother fighting the dems? i for one am tired of being the adult in the room, and i am tired of being called a racist bigoted homophone stupid idiot when i am trying to keep the dumb toddlers from playing in the street. so let's let 'em have what they want. then when everything is a wreck, we'll just go in and fix it all, all the while making sure that they know that we are doing 'em a favour. let the dem's have it all! don't create anything new, don't go out of your way, and charity? aw forget it. no more charity. your taxes should be enough. minimize your taxable income and wait out the storm...it's gonna be bad, people, but at this point it's the only way the children will learn their lesson...the hard way! reality and life are cruel teachers.

783 75 warren bonesteel, Um, "no" if Ogabe isn't Maher's keeper I'm not Coulter's. Double standards meaning fuck to me? Fresh out. Let it burn.

784

I have never been a Republican, although my parents were, faithfully and passionately.  I would like to find a party to join.  But Republicans have been almost as profligate government spenders as Democrats, and they are so damn righteous -- so I cannot choose them.  Libertarians while they might keep the government out of my bedroom and out of a woman's womb, have little compassion for safety nets and for a (relatively) safe world.  So where can I go?  I want no gun control; I want the scientific method applied to the study of climate (the climate is always changing); I want respect for immigrants and no hatred of "illegals" -- they come to America for the same reasons all (soon-to-be) Americans have always come; no amnesty, but imaginative inclusiveness without a vote for a long time; I want everyone to pay taxes, but I want what I consider to be a fair spread, e.g., 2%, 5%, 7%, 10%, 15%, 20%, and 25% -- a "flat tax" is not fair; I want limited government, but with a respectful discussion of the safety net (no sneering at "takers" or the 47% -- how many of those are receiving Social Security, a system they were "forced" to pay in to for 30, 40 or so years); I want strict voter ID, no digital voting machines (always, always hackable), and guaranteed poll watchers of all party backgrounds.

   Young people especially must be educated to the hope for the good life (prosperity) once they have left home.  If this is held out to them, scruffy as they may seem, they will get a glimmer in their eye.  Most "conservative" principles I honor are those of "classical liberalism".  Anyone (most, all Republicans) who sneers at "liberals" has changed the terms of American politics.  Americans used to argue/fight over "conservative" and "liberal" principles and policies, but so-called "conservatives" have blinded our culture to the fact that what has been called "liberal" for so many years is socialist, marxist, European version of "progressive".  I long for good, old "anti-Communist" fervor; instead I get the a demonized "L" word.  Pretty disgusting.  No wonder young people can't figure out which way is up.

    Where do I find a home?  Nowhere, it seems.

785 On climate change: The physics of it are straightforward; carbon dioxide in the atmosphere warms the Earth, and the proportion of carbon dioxide is rapidly increasing, towards levels matching the highs detected in the geological record. The projections of what will result are of course much hazier, and many (most?) of the claims made in the popular press are just bullshit. I'd say adopt this one wholeheartedly and reverse the spin. Build nuclear power plants instead of coal. Pour money into scientific and technological solutions to the problem, rather than imposing whole new layers of government regulation and massive economic damage as the liberals want.

786 Hey Sven- Do it.  It 'll refocus ya on something beautiful and positive for a change.  I'm tellin' ya it's all about the XD Tacticals, but that last session in the desert really did a number on 'em... they're coming back slowly, like we must... go grab 'em now and tell me it wasn't the right thing to do-

787 794 pyromancer, The democrats.

788 In terms of defining, I simply define. Others, newbies as I like to say, would perhaps might think other than defining. Don't. Define. Do it.

789 791 "Sarah Palin, Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain --- ALL of them would have brought out a higher GOP turnout than Romney" I don't buy that argument for a second. Romney's negatives were all on our side -- that he wasn't conservative enough. The other side successfully branded him as a radical. Not just as a conservative, but as a radical. And it worked. If we're going to carve out a majority, we have to find a way to take away the irrational motivation that those in the middle find to oppose Republicans. We can't keep kidding ourselves that abortion and gay marriage are not a part of that. We can't sell these people on the notion that we are for individual liberty and small government, while they're hearing the message that Republicans don't want to let a woman have an abortion even if she gets raped and we don't want to let the nice gay couple down the street get married.

790 799 brewdog, That's right abort everyone, marry fire hydrants, ban guns, and spend it all

791

Brewdog, you are advocating the same crap that brought us Dole, McCain and Romney.

If you don't give a clear choice, then you split the independent votes and lose the election because there are less GOP voters than Dem voters.

If you give a clear choice then you increase the GOP turnout and lose some independent votes but your totals go up.  When you give a clear choice (ala Reagan and Bush I v. Dukakis) you also manage to depress Dem turnout because the actual clear choice has to be given in a way that makes Dem policies look bad (rather than pretty good except for a couple minor details).

792 The GOP is as big on pork as the Dems are. How can anyone possibly think they're any different with tax and spending? Furthermore, both sides are deluded that one or the other is enough. Raising taxes AND cutting spending is necessary in order to balance the budget of this Republic. Austerity, babeee!

793 802 Fire sale

794 The fire rises, brother.

795

Brewdog, "Romney's negatives were all on our side -- that he wasn't conservative enough. The other side successfully branded him as a radical. Not just as a conservative, but as a radical. And it worked."

 

Don't buy that analysis.  Romney lost because less GOP voters turned out.  He did much better with the independent vote than McCain did.  He lost because he wasn't attractive to the GOP voters.

796 The Democrat Law Complex of Sophistry W I N S A L W A Y S A N D F O R E V E R

797 You want abortion fine you pay for it. You want green energy you buy it i want a gun i wont make you pay for it and i want liberty i wont make you fight for it but i will

798 801 doug, I'm not advocating nominating someone who is less conservative. Don't lump me in with David Frum. What I'm saying is that any of those other candidates, while arguably more conservative than Romney, would also have been even more easily painted by the other side as radical. They define us. We have to find a way to change it or overcome it, or else we will lose. We have to read Sun Tzu. Also, this conservative savior we keep hoping for is never going to come. Anyone who comes along and actually wants to seek the office, and who is willing to allow themselves to be flayed open by the left-wing media and have their life destroyed, is going to be insufficiently conservative to some group. Zombie Reagan is not going to run in 2016.

799 805 doug, if we're going to win, we can't just worry about GOP voters. We have to worry about voters in the states that are going to get us over 270, where it's near 50/50. This conservative messiah that we want is never going to show up. We can work with what we have or else we can lose again. We can try to carve out a majority by getting the most we can out of our side and taking away some of the other side, or else we can just turn into the Libertarian Party and sit around talking about who is and who isn't conservative enough.

800 795 On climate change:

The physics of it are straightforward; carbon dioxide in the atmosphere warms the Earth, and the proportion of carbon dioxide is rapidly increasing, towards levels matching the highs detected in the geological record.

The projections of what will result are of course much hazier, and many (most?) of the claims made in the popular press are just bullshit.

I'd say adopt this one wholeheartedly and reverse the spin. Build nuclear power plants instead of coal. Pour money into scientific and technological solutions to the problem, rather than imposing whole new layers of government regulation and massive economic damage as the liberals want.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at November 10, 2012 10:22 PM (2yngH)

Wrong on many levels. CO2 probably is a greenhouse gas, but its effect is far far weaker than that of water vapor. And at its current level of 380 parts per million, it is far short of the peaks reached in the geologic record, up to 7000 ppm, IIRC. And not all periods of peak CO2 were unduly warm, nor were all warm periods characterized by high CO2.

Higher CO2 is known to be beneficial to plant growth, and if increased CO2 from human activities did in fact cause a little climate warming, it would be a net benefit. Civilizations flourished in historic warm periods, and languished in the cold periods.

Instead of wasting vast quantities of life and treasure on trying to curb CO2 emissions, and thereby "prevent" global climate change, it would make much more sense to work towards mitigating any damage that global climate change might cause to our infrastructure, and also work towards maximizing any benefits that might accrue from climate change.

Sure, build nuclear power plants out the ying-yang, if they will give us cheap electricity, but continue mining coal and drilling for gas and oil, too.

801 @805:"He lost because he wasn't attractive to the GOP voters." -- This is right, but it's missing a key point of context, namely, the base's totally justified loss of confidence in GOP leadership after bending over during the debt crisis fight. This is why more turned out for McCain, even though McCain ran an arguably less conservative campaign than Romney (I'm balancing Palin with Ryan) You're not going to make the GOP attractive to the base without getting a trustworthy leadership, period. As for attracting other groups, that's a lost cause due to the incredible damage Liberals have done to the GOP brand through the media and the schools. Look at Obama's campaign, no policies, no budget, no plans, just big bird, binders, and contraception fear-mongering. This works with their base because it's like club membership and identity. If the GOP tried to say "me too!", that misses the point, because the point is not about policy. Look at the popular Dem bumper sticker:"Not a Republican". That's not a statement of positive policy preference, that's a statement of negative tribal identity: "Not one of us", as Obama said of Romney. And like any insular, bullying gang, they have only contempt for those who try to curry favor with them though imitation.

802 What makes Jon Huntsman so detestable to you people? What about him isn't conservative, despite his very conservative economic policy in Utah and pro-life credentials?

803 Another point about why "moderating" Republican positions won't work in the face of Democrat identity politics. Look at what all the Liberal pundits are saying. They're NOT saying that Democrats won because of superior policy positions. They're saying that the Democrats won because the GOP is the party of fading old, white, racist men. In other words, they don't care what positions the opposition holds. It's a power game. Either you're with them or against them; policy and argument are irrelevant.

804 Nowhere on Earth may I take prife in white maledom, but the good news "not Republicans" is I won't use my agic powers to stop King Putt's magic. Show me. Let it burn.

805 The nook, the nook is on fire...no really man the battery is hot.

806 I agree with you Jeremia, unfortunately, the GOP establishment and leadership doesn't.

807 816 doug, So I need to either get a tan, or go communard or the GOP is doomed? Hey look kindling. Get the point, it's theirs I left it like I found it.

808

So, is overturning Roe v Wade an official platform of the GOP? Cuz I spent some tough time convincing people to vote GOP by assuring them that that was ridiculous. Common ground was National defense and wise frugality with tax revenue.

Did I inadvertantly lie to people? Cuz fuck... I'd have been a third party voter this time and certainly not endorsed pious fucking hypocrites.

What exactly does Liberty mean to the GOP for fuck's sake? Get pious and ring your bell all you want, good luck with that shit when you meet your Maker. Again, America isn't a theocracy. Jesus forgave the murderer while he was being tortured to death in order to pay for that man's sins. People in the party I have voted for for years seriously think their shit doesn't stink enough to warrant saying "forgive me, Lord"?

Looks like Newton's 2060 is pretty fucking close. But hey, really. What else would it be if not close. Isaac fucking Newton and all that.

I'll rejoice then:

http://tinyurl.com/3nyef8d

http://tinyurl.com/auasg87

809 818,

I must have missed any moral base beyond the new Moontard approved GOP platform at the Donk Convention....

1) Mary anything you want
2) abortions up to 25 years after delivery
3) spend it spend it all b/c teachers are job growth and somewhere a old rich white guy is worth more than you.

Fuck this let it burn.

810 816 I agree with you Jeremia, unfortunately, the GOP establishment and leadership doesn't. - Yeah, I know...that and the fact that this election was so close are what make this whole discussion so bitter. Let's face it: We got Nader'ed not by Libertarians staying home, not by social cons turning off swing voters, but by our party leaders consistently giving us substantial reason not to trust them at all.

811 You white guys are hilarious! Keep this up and Dems will be assured 2016 and beyond. BTW, regarding comments that say mostly Dems have abortions: Noooo, it's conservatives who are against sex ed and contraceptives that tend to have teens who get knocked up.

812 821 Tracy,

shut the fuck up and show me the non socialist satisfying Obamaphone bitch and growing the economy through higher taxes.

Get your fucking shine box

813 Spending IS taxation.

814 823 Hussein,

Oddly so is QE eleventy...

fuck 'em let it burn

815

Who is the next rick sanelli/or clint eastwood. Let Rome burn.

816 Ace, You should have substituted John Rambo "you know you want to"..for John Galt in the poll. I would have been all over that. Just saying.

817 A little late, but my .02 US, Andy put taxes and spending in the same slot.  I am willing to tax more, lets say 17% on anyone who receives 100% of their income via welfare and food stamps. Put it in the bank, stuff your mattress with it, i don't care, just save some of it. Checks must be postmarked no later than April 15, unless you want to split a 6x9 concrete box with Wesley Snipes. While we are at it, lets cut some spending, too. How about ZERO Federal money for Calf. Gov Moonbeam is in charge of the 8th largest economy in the world, right? You want bullet trains and solar cells, you pay for it, seeing how i prefer my truck and the Texas Tea it runs on.

818 You white guys are hilarious! Keep this up and Dems will be assured 2016 and beyond. BTW, regarding comments that say mostly Dems have abortions: Noooo, it's conservatives who are against sex ed and contraceptives that tend to have teens who get knocked up. -------- I love that "white guys" is now supposed to be a put down. It's like the ultimate political insult. The only thing that's worse is if you're also "old." We've swung from a racist country against minorities to a racist country against the majority. And sexist. See the above post, where this person thinks there is something inherently wrong with being a "white guy."

819 Boehner has got to go repubs. If you expect to exist in 2016 you better stop ballwashing the marxist rockstar at every turn. You lost one election now get the fvck over it and fight!

820 829 GCF,

No I don't think so.

Let it burn.

Show me you gave a sack of shit the car keys America show me.

821 Glad to see we really don't care about the violent destruction of babies and are ready to give on that issue. If only the GOP was so ready to give on slavery we might have avoided the whole Civil War thang.

822 ALL_IS_LOST at November 11, 2012 09:06 AM (T/L2Z) I agree, it's bad to count a person as 3/5 but it's okay to slice and dice another? Remove the stand against abortion from the GOP and I won't vote for them again at any level.

823 Let the Animals have the Farm! Withdraw service, charity, capital, and keep the powder dry. Such a pity we have to be thinking in such terms and more disheartening to think about the fragmentation that this administration will cause. The Courts had been a hope but Roberts has indicated he'd prefer a wine cocktail over principle.

824

If the idea is changing our message to a winning one, shouldn't the poll be limited to things the other side actually ran on?

Because for example, Obama never once mentioned climate change in this whole election, only afterwards.  We could have been to the left of him on that one and it wouldn't have gotten us any votes.  That might be a winning issue in hard blue states like NY, MA and CA, but in the rest of the country, drastically raising energy prices for some theoretical benefits in 100 years is a losing idea.  So I object to it even being on the list and am horrified that it's such a popular pick as we'd not only sacrifice our principles, raises taxes on everyone and hurt the economy, grow the federal bureacracy, and destroy jobs in fossil fuel industries, but we wouldn't even help ourselves win elections!!

Just saying, the poll should be limited to issues Obama and Dems ran on in national elections, or things that would win over growing blocs of voters (immigration).  Near as I can tell in this election, the things Obama ran on were 1) taxes and spending, 2) abortion, and 3) a bunch of attacks on Romney from his business experience to tax returns to binders to 47%.  Only the first 2 apply to the party agenda specifically and taxes and spending he specifically ran on a) taxes on the wealthy and b) not changing entitlements.  Obama didn't run on immigration either but we're obviously losing the Hispanic vote and this is one for consideration.  So the poll should really have 4 choices on it:  immigration, taxes on the wealthy, entitlements, and abortion.  Then it would really respond to the outcome of this election. 

Presumably if Obama thought any of the rest were winning issues, he would've run on them, he didn't.  So would love to see the poll changed to narrow the focus for it to be meaningful.

825 Huh, Chiming in after more than 12 hrs... Gun Controll... Huh! I would imagine that many who voted that way, already HAVE guns! No? (Spare me the "2nd undergirding the 1st Ammendment" fucking rhetoric. How has THAT been fucking working, lately NRA??? You gonna face down Sebelius & the IRA in defense of a Snowmobile Mfg. who happens to be run by devout Catholics? No. I thought not.) You shrieking, skirts pulled up, fucking HOBBYISTS! You are worse than the One Issue GHEY voters, in some ways! I don't much cotton to ANYBODY who don't feel satisfied until they feel the warm slobbery kiss of Federal Approval on their butts! I know.... You have a deeper agenda, more rooted in first principals than I could possibly understand! Once you feel "secure" in your 2Amndt Protections, you will TOTALLY be all over securing other Protections, later...?

826 You see, just as pigs do not like the dogs at their trough, the CIA is going to be quite piggish at the FBI dogs, doing BO's bidding over the Pretreaus deal. The animal media sat on the Animal Jackson story to allow the animal electorate to elect an criminal who will now be removed. Let's please allow the animals to have the barnyard. Before withdrawing a little scorch might be in order; A Coastal Climate Tax for all states bordering the Atlantic and Pacific, a Government Redistribution Tax on all income of government employees, an Entertainment/Income Tax for any one in the movie industry, and let's not forget a Mainstream Media Tax on any organization or its employees purporting to sell news. We know taxes are good, Chairman BO has told us so.

827 I'm telling, you drop the abortion issue and the GOP will have a majority in this country. 

I don't know why this so hard, especially since the GOP's insistence on this platform only elects truly pro-abortion Democrats.  We lost the Senate over abortion.  Period.  I also believe we lost the White House over it. 

Of my immediate friends that voted for Romney, none of them voted for him because they wanted to see abortion criminalized even though they all believe abortion is immoral.  The Religious Right is a wing of the Party that most Republicans tolerate because we feel the small government platform is key.

And my Obama "friends", 90% of it was over abortion, usually women.

Party platforms change, Democrats got smart and dropped the death penalty prohibition, being soft on crime, and gun control.  It worked, I really would have wished they would have just kept running Michael Dukakis Democrats that we could beat like a drum, but they didn't and they got 99% of what they wanted.

Right now, when I look at what really worries me about this country, it's not women getting the right to have an abortion.  Anyone grounded in reality knows you're never going to get rid of it anymore than you're going to be able to wipe out divorce or homosexuality.

828

Obama didn't run on guns, he didn't run on climate change and he didn't even run on immigration.  He did run on abortion, taxes and entitlements, nothing beyond that except attacking Romney.  So if the issues were a problem for us (and I don't think it's nearly that simple for the record) then we need to focus on those things.  Again...abortion, taxes and entitlements. Expanding the discussion to being more liberal on subjects we didn't lose on is just plainly stupid. 

829 The problem with the GOP for being for open borders/amnesty is your spending a billion dollars to save a penny.

My guess is, had Romney campaigned on some sort of Amnesty, he might have gotten another .3% of the popular vote from increased Latino support (and mostly in states that weren't in contention like Texas and California)  But I guarantee you that would easily be offset by working class whites in the true swing states like Ohio, Wisconsin, Virginia, etc.  Also. remember that AZ's tough immigration law had something like 70% support nationwide.  Does any part of the GOP platform have that kind of support?

We are not going to win every voter, and I would rather take my lumps with Latinos when they are a small pool of voters than take my lumps when you've increased their numbers by 20-30 million.  I'd rather lose 70% of 8 million voters than 60% of 30 million.  And do you know what 30 million illegal immigrants that now have access to all government services is going to do too our budgets?

Drop the social issues, and the GOP can start competing in states in New England, the East and West Coast instead of a Party that only does well in the South (and even now, that's become an issue).
 

830 Fuck them all! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight every step of the way!

831

All you child killers, or at least you folks who believe the GOP should abandon the anti-abortion position in order to win elections:

This poll is being conducted on a 'conservative' blog that historically attacks social conservatives and likely gets a following that more resembles their views...YET....the poll indicates if you accept abortion then you will lose 14% of those who answered the poll.  I imagine that equates to about 21% in the real world. 

So if you turn off 21% of the voters and just let them sit out, where will you gain in order to make up for it?

I'm guessing we lost 8 points this year, easily, with regular GOP voters deciding to sit it out because Romneycare was the nominee.

Suburban republicans really don't have a clue.

832 841.

I love the rhetoric, people who don't have the same position on a public policy issue like abortion simply must be "child killers." I don't see anyone here actively making the case that abortion is a sound moral choice people should be making.  I would say 99.9% fall into the "personally opposed" position. 

I guess it's no different than those who want to reform food stamps as "starving children."

I have no problem with this wing of the Party taking their ball home and going home. 

Apparently, the SoCon position is pro-lifers are really closet socialists that only vote for the GOP over a single abstract moral issue.  Once you take it off the table though, they really want bigger government, gun control, higher taxes, etc.

833

842

Late comment, but have to say I agree 100%.  The bottom line is that abortion will NEVER be criminalized in this nation.  For anyone to base their vote on something that can't be changed anyway is a political suicide mission.

With respect to gay marriage, it's amazing to me how the "third option" is almost never discussed.  Get government out of all marriage, straight and gay.  That way "gay marriage" will be legal, but the government won't be putting its endorsement on it either.

A winning message for the Republican party is that of personal freedom.  That message becomes diluted by the stubborness of the SoCons.

 

834 843

I agree, I actually thought the Ron Paul position on marriage should have been given more discussion.

Why on Earth is a marriage in the realm of government anyway?  It's a religious institution, we don't get an official government document when we baptize someone, yet somehow, we Christians are able to carry on practicing our faith.

835 Did Obama even actively campaign on abortion? it seems like the issue only became a big deal because idiots like Akin brought it up with the rape comments. They set up the game for the Democrats to win.

836 Abortion is the most overrated non-issue in American politics today, and I'm sick and fucking tired of every single election at every level being turned into a question of what the candidates think about abortion.

Worse yet, the anti-abortion crowd are hypocrites in the first place.  If they actually wanted to reduce the number of abortions performed, they would focus their efforts on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies.  Abortions happen when women get pregnant with babies they don't want.  Fewer unwanted pregnancies means fewer abortions.  Unwanted pregnancies can be reduced by promoting sexual responsibility and encouraging both men and women to use contraceptives properly.

But of course the anti-abortion crowd won't do this because they're more interested in ideological purity than real-world results.

Fuck em.  Let them go off an start their own party and stop dragging the rest of us down with their irrelevant bullshit.

837 So you want to run against "abortion".  Do you believe in the Constitution?  If so, SCOTUS has said abortion is a woman's RIGHT up unitl the 6th month of the pregnancy.  Do you not believe that?  Do you know how to take away a RIGHT?  You get a Constitutional amendment.  Where is that amendment?  Has it been brought up in Congress?  Has it been ratified by 38 states?  NO IT HAS NOT EVEN BEEN MENTIONED!  SO STFU about abortion until you get a Constitutional amendment started.  Now you can thump your bible with the congregation and spew how eeeeeeeevil abortion is, but it is NOT a political point.  Not now.