97 You're making up arguments that weren't being made so you could dismiss the person.

Posted by: Scarecrow at March 24, 2012 12:56 PM (BDNF5)

The guy you're defending already admitted to abusing the language.  He was wrong, which I pointed out.  He specifically used language meant to distort the circumstances.

The rest of your comment is pure drivel.

98 if this is so my earlier idea that the kid was also worried about being stalked falls apart.

I wouldn't say he was too worried because he didn't use his own cell phone (which we know he had) to dial 911.

Of course, he isn't required to do so in order to be an innocent party, but that would tend to complete the picture if he were.

99 Spike Lee re-tweeted what he thought was Zimmermann's address yesterday.




So is the point to decry vigilante justice, and then go all vigilante?

100

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 24, 2012 12:58 PM (Af3Wg)

 

Yes, I see what you mean but the point I didn't make initially was that the politicization of the crime has overshadowed the crime itself.

 

That's why I don't care anymore.

101 Just curious,  why was Trayvon in that area again?   Its no excuse for him getting shot but I am just wondering what proximity this incident was to where his residence was. 

102 Caroline, perhaps the police did properly investigate  , talk to witness's , but we are being fed misinformation now.

?
this is why i think we should wait until All the information comes out, look whether we like it or not we do have the media already hiding information , adding information. This is a problem for all of us .
we just don't KNOW the truth.
now court time and hopefully more Accurate information will become available. g-d willing.

103

The media's unconscionable manipulation of this case proves Andrew Breitbart's assertion that the media   is the enemy.

 

It took them almost two weeks to show a picture of the   "white  shooter" who tends to not be white.

 

The professional race hustlers   have swooped in to capitalize, raise money, and spread their   racist lies. They should be denounced for perpetuating the false meme of America being a racist country in defiance of the truth of things like the Civil War   and the various laws we now have that have corrected the systemic  inequities.

 

The country is being further divided along racial lines, just as    it has been divided along economic ones  during this administration. I'm   not sure which is worse: the media scum and the administration who is clearly directing this, or the gullibility of the American public and its outright refusal to   question anything the media shovels them.

104 Zimmerman is apparently Hispanic.  If his last name were Alverez, would this be a story?

105 Great. This is just great. Now AoSHQ will repeat, in its entirety, all 800+ commentsfrom yesterday on this topic. All without one new fact being discovered.

Are you suggesting I should go do chores instead of whiling away the afternoon here? Hmmm, I suppose it's actually a good idea.

106 When this is all done, I'm pretty confident that I'll be saying "now who is a dumbfuck, you bunch of asshole lawyers?" to a bunch of people on Twitter.

107 Anyone asserting they know what happened immediately before the "wrestling" and the calls for help, then the gunshot is making things up. In other words, lying. What you know, if you are paying attention, is that here is a time gap between Zimmerman being advised to NOT follow Martin, and their eventual struggle. There is time and physical distance at the point. There are no public pronouncements that indicate Zimmerman was running after him. The cops have statements from Zimmerman and witnesses. You don't have those statements, so if you think you know, you're ignorant. If you know you don't know, but are pretending you do, you are lying for reasons that have nothing to do with a desire to see justice done.

108 Also before anyone points out the tragedy of the white kid set on fire, and any other black on whatever crime, the double standard most in the black community see is that those blacks will be arrested when found, as they should be, and as Zimmerman should have been.

^^^

This makes sense, a perspective I don't agree with, but I see your point.

On the flip side, no one even knows who Coons is. I did a search of major newspapers and found 380 articles on Trayvon.

Yet not one on Allen Coons of Kansas City.

109 >>he nyc public schools gave the kids a waiver to allow them to wear hoodies in school yesterda, had a big handholding chain and a moment of silence

This hoodie shit is really pissing me off.  It's slightly chilly today after two weeks of shitty hot weather, and I was looking forward to dusting off my Brewers hoodie to run errands, and now I can't, b/c anyone who sees it will assume I'm making a pro-race-hustler statement.

110 If Media Matters and their sockpuppets in the MBM want to play the Zimmerman is white game, OK

Bill Richardson: white
Linda Ronstadt: white
Selma Hayek: white
Geraldo Rivera: white Joo!
Spock: human
Barack Obama: WHITE

111 What was the location of the kids pants? Hoodies are one thing, pants past your ass,so you have to hold your dick on the street is another. Maybe Newt will bring it up.

112 Posted by: ErikW at March 24, 2012 01:02 PM (MDyuS) yes i agree 100%. typing on-handed with kitteh in lap is a handicap to complete thoughts..

113 What is the catalysis to bring this forward now???

They've been dying to inject race into this campaign for quite some time now.  That's why Obama gave it his seal of approval.

114 What is the point of this post? All we can do is speculate. That's what we do here in the comment threads every day. btw, No Fucking Shit We Don't Know All The Facts In the meantime, we discuss it. Otherwise there is no reason to have goddamm comment threads for the posts.

115 anyway we should take a deep breath. and hope the truth wins out . wherever it leads.

116 Carolina Punk-
I'm interested in your take on my #19 and JJSefton's #94.  Any comments?

117 I'm not seeing much response to this among the usual suspects where I work in north Jersey...several who could be described as hard-working, mellow, black liberation theology sympathizers (if that makes sense).  A bunch of others are very proud Hispanics.

Note that these are a couple of dozen highly educated worker bees.  All Dem except for me, an Israeli, and one of the Spanish guys.

Someone brought the subject up.  Someone else said the word "Duke".  Another said "Sharpton".

That was it.  End of conversation.

118 Beating the crap out of someone with a gun takes a certain type of stupid.

119 AP asks this important question:
 
HAGERSTOWN, Md. (AP) -- You're cruising along the highway when you see a bunch of green bills fluttering around like flakes in a snow globe. You get closer and you realize it's cash. Other drivers are pulling over to snatch what they can. What do you do?
 
I stop and look carefully both ways before stepping out of my car. I proceed to buy lottery tickets with my portion of the windfall.

120 Hopefully someone will do a timeline or put the events in chronological order. Did Zimmerman start following Martin? Is that how this entire tragedy started?

And, IIRC, the national Neighborhood Watch Program said a few days ago that if there was a watch program in that community it was not one they "recognized" and that one of their cardinal rules is  that Natch members don't carry weapons.

121 [dude, chill]

122 Burt, on that running after the kid, I had thought that was true a couple of days ago, but he is on the phone with police while supposedly running (he was not runing ). That was just one  issue on misinformation

123 >>So is the point to decry vigilante justice, and then go all vigilante?

Whether or not a lynch mob is acceptable depends on who is leading it.

(I note the Ku Klux Klan lynched whites who opposed them...notably Republicans...chew on that, Spike.)

124 What is the catalysis to bring this forward now???


Maybe because the Sandra Fluke distraction has run it's course.

125 I've been trying to find official witness statements for two days. Anyone else have success?

126

TJew!

How you been?

127 Spike Lee lives in Brooklyn. Shouldn't be too hard to find him.

128 I think this case could be just about the most watershed event that could happen. So at least it might ultimatley serve a greater purpose. Thousands of black teens are killed every year by other black teens, the race pimps and hustlers don't raise a ruckus about that. There are even NO SNITCHING campaigns in the black community to prevent blacks from cooperating with police to help stem the violence. Black person kills black Person, NOT INTERESTING, SAYS THE MEDIA AND THE MOB. Black person kills white person, CAN"T POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN RACIALLY MOTIVATED, SAYS THE MEDIA AND THE MOB. White person, in this case he's Hispanic, kills a black person, RACISM STRAIGHT UP NO CHASER, SAYS THE MEDIA AND THE MOB! ELEVENTY!!!! Posted by: McLovin at March 24, 2012 12:59 PM (j0IcY) I agree about this possibly being a watershed event. equally good is the fact that the Breitbart crew is watching the whole thing and, I assume, are compiling everything to lay smackdown of epic proportions on the media for their agitprop campaign. They have not reported the call tapes correctly, they have not made any effort to investigate whatshisname - not even get a current photo - they have really gone way too far and overexposed themselves as obama's media arm and it is going to leave a mark.

129 I read those tweets from Spike Lee. That's fucking incitement of a lynch mob. Dozens of death threats. Fuck Spike Lee. Racial healer Obama is inciting a fucking race riot in Miami. I know for the national media they are trying to make Zimmerman look white. Trust me. Hispanics in miami know he's one of them.

130 I'm getting a little exasperated at the "he was told not to follow" comments

A 911 dispatcher is a clerical level position, not a law enforcement officer. They're trained to advise you to stay put and wait for the police even if you're being attacked by killer bees

Ignore what you "know" of this case based on MBM reporting. They're getting their feed from leftist agitators and race arsonists, along with adding their own biases to the narrative. Behind the scenes, some MBM pezzonovantes are probably a little pissed at the agitators for not checking Zimmerman's ethnic features before pushing the story on them

131 136 Spike Lee lives in Brooklyn. Shouldn't be too hard to find him. Posted by: I am the egg man, . . . at March 24, 2012 01:09 PM (SeZia) I think it might be harder than you think, apparently no one in the movie industry has been able to find him lately.

132 107 - Kyle, he was a house guest of "relatives" who live in the community. Apparently he had been staying with them for a couple weeks.

133 And fuck the Miami Heat for getting in on this. Fuck Lebron James, fuck Spike Lee, fuck Obama. Racist motherfuckers.

134

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 24, 2012 01:05 PM (Af3Wg)

 

"Typing one handed with a kitteh on lap?"

 

Is that what it's called nowadays?

135
I thought the officer said, "you don't HAVE to"

Posted by: willow at March 24, 2012 12:56 PM (TomZ9)

Your quote is correct. However, it wasn't even a law enforcement officer who said it. It was a 911 dispatcher.

136 133 What is the catalysis to bring this forward now???  Maybe because the Sandra Fluke distraction has run it's course.

I expect a reappearance by Cindy Sheehan any day now.

137 There are a number of Blacks that don't want equality, they want to get even. Likewise those who scream for justice really only want  vengence.

They would not do these things if they did not perceive weakness in those they wish to see degraded and/or dead.

As in those Muslims who use the Koran as an excuse to commit murder (admittedly it's easier to do that than the Bible, especially the New Testament, or other sacred religious writings.) are doing so because they have the belief that Islam will win over it's enemies.

Since it's enemies are the rest of the world that is not Muslim and since winning means either slavery or being killed for the rest of the world, it's amazing that so many believe that Islam is benign and being taken out of context or that those who follow Islam do not believe what THEY SAY they believe.

Showing weakness to those who wish you ill is a fatal flaw that will lead to more and more violence until either those under attack surrender or react.

All this during the tenure of a black President.

Those in the Media who aided and abetted these vile people bring upon us this hell on earth should be tried, convicted and imprisoned for treason.

138

Fuck Lebron James

 

Posted by: Clubber Lang at March 24, 2012 01:11 PM (ZPrif)

 

 

The Cleveland Metro area agrees with you whole heartedly although not necessarily for that reason!

139 Where are the "Hispanic" leaders defending Zimmerman?

It'll be coming.  The longer this goes on, the more Trayvon doesn't look like a wholly innocent party or at least that Zimmerman acted reasonably from his point of view.

Geraldo is the canary in the coalmine.  He reflexively defends Hispanics against anything and in this situation, blaming the hoodie was the best he thought he could get away with.  As time goes on, Hispanics will start to identify with Zimmerman more and will feel bolder in pushing back.

And some Hispanic Dems will discover that their party's victim coalition holds some victims higher than others.

140 It would be nice if the media would coordinate the facts.  Some articles say his dad lived in the gated community.  Some articles say his dad's girlfriend lived in the gated community.  Other articles say his dad's girlfriend or his dad live right outside the gated community.  They can't even get one simple fact correct. 

141 Behind the scenes, some MBM pezzonovantes are probably a little pissed at the agitators for not checking Zimmerman's ethnic features before pushing the story on them
Posted by: kbdabear at March 24, 2012 01:10 PM



I was thinking the same.

142 135 TJew!
How you been?

Posted by: garrett at March 24, 2012 01:09 PM (eS2w

Fine thanks..

Just posted 14 more photos on the Yahoo site

You'll recognize the area down south of Medora..

143 I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but it seems to me that this "white Hispanic" was a member of what, the neighborhood watch? And he had a gun legally?

It seems to me if you are interested in protecting your neighborhood and went through the trouble of getting a gun legally, that you are probably a stand up guy. Yes, I know ,a huge assumption. But... to me, a guy who takes the time out to help his community is probably NOT going to shoot and kill someone unprovoked.  That's just logic.

There is much more to this story, but we may never hear it.

Thanks President Racial Violence!

144 Reposting my story from last night.  It will give a clue how the self defense law is prosecuted in Florida.  IMO, unless it can be proven that Zimmerman started the fight, he will not be charged.  This crap people are tossing out about Martin being "chased" is irrelevant.  The DAs and Grand Juries don't get distracted by that crap.

I can't sleep so I'm going to repeat the story from Twitter. This Zimmerman story is bugging the hell out of me because so many people (most I'm seeing are conservatives) are claiming the Zimmerman started the altercation by chasing Martin. My personal experience is that in Florida, a lot more weight goes into who threw the first punch.

Bob is an ok kid (smokes too much pot I think) who is a friend of my son. He's been to my house. He's out one night and sees Mike yelling at his girlfriend Alice. Then he sees Mike hit Alice.

Bob confronts Mike and tells him to be cool, and not do that. Mike starts to mouth off to Bob, and Bob swings on Mike.

Bob is now beating the shit out of Mike, when Mike pulls a knife and stabs Bob in the stomach.

In the hospital, Bob is arrested for assault and battery, while Mike is not charged with anything.

On the surface, it seems unfair, but Bob started the fight. Mike was considered within his rights to defend himself, even using deadly force. It's just the way the law works here.

A lot of this case is going to turn on who started the fight. And I don't think "pursuit" is going to count. Someone swung first. If it was Zimmerman, he probably goes to jail. But if it was Martin, then he probably doesn't.

But I've been called a dumbfuck by lawyers tonight, so I guess I'm too stupid to know how things work in my state.

145 131 - Exactly. Zimmerman tells the dispatcher that Martin had started running. The dispatcher asks Zimmerman if he was following, and Zimmerman sort of says he is, and is advised by the dispatcher not to do so. There is NO indication that Zimmerman had ever started running after Martin. Maybe he did after he hung up with the 911 dispatcher, but there is nothing in the public information that would confirm this. As you say, misinformation. Whether a misunderstanding or deliberate, still wrong.

146 George Zimmerman is a wannabe cop who couldn't pass the exams but he's still a nascient Dirty Harry who thinks every ***** is a thievin' thug

Little Trayvon Martin is a whispy idealistic young lad who plays football, is an honor student, and wants to feed the hungry in Africa some day.

Little Trayvon is walking through the neighborhood on his way back from cooking dinner for his invalid grandmother and decides to collect donations for the Sanford battered women's shelter.

He's not quite sure where he is and he's starting to get scared because this crazy looking musclebound hater is giving him the evil eye.

He's talking on the phone with his girlfriend about meeting after she's done with choir practice when he tells her this creepy big guy is following him and he's scared. She tells him not to take chances, run away.

Zimmerman gets into his Mozambique Drill position and yells "FREEZE -------!!"

Little Trayvon reaches into his belt to show him his ID and his Bible when Zimmerman grins and pumps hot lead into the innocent lad.

Zimmerman then rolls around in the mud and pistol whips himself to make it look like a fight when the cops get there.

Why are the cops there? Because Zimmerman disobeyed a direct order from a 911 dispatcher with all the authority of a file clerk and said "I've had enough of these uppity -----, I'm gonna make an example of this one"

147 Is Zimmerman cuban?  I keep reading that in the comments after some of the articles.

148 Once again, Obama weighs in before all the facts are in.  The only time he jumps to the front is when there's some racial issue to demagogue.

I hope this guy sues Spike Lee, because he's going to have to incur a lot of expenses moving to a new home and he certainly will have some "emotional distress" that can be eased with a load of cash.

149 Once the media is caught on a lie all bets are off.
The facts were not initially reported because they didn't have them so they invented facts in a FBT "Fake But True" story.
And publishing a photo of young Mr Martin from the fourth grade was another lie.
There were witnesses and an investigation but the seething, racist lynch mob will have a white head or three to assuage themselves.

150 You know, i care more about making sure the boy's litter box is clean than i do this story. But that said as someone who does carry concealed and used to carry open, we were taught if you go down and there is a chance you are going to get knocked out you go to your gun before its taken from you I give a damn whose at fault, there is no need to get on top of someone and beat him unconcience....in fact, if zimmerman died from the beating i bet we wouldn't be hearing about it

151 Hmm - At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. http://tinyurl.com/78s4mv6

152 People, it seems a more recent photo of this fine young man has been found. Please post and click this link: http://tinyurl.com/7htbf5m It is, shall we say, a little different than the several years old one being floated around by the media. Hmmm. I wonder why?

153 You know on a larger scale, I actually think Barry WANTS to incite blacks to get them to blame "the man" on his bad policies and forget that he is now "The Man".

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo-intellectual at March 24, 2012 01:13 PM (hXJOG)

No doubt about it.  Fomenting racial animus in America has been one of his main priorities since the day he slimed into office ... literally.  Remember the OFFICIAL inaugural benediction prayer to the nation .... to "pray for the day when ... white will embrace what is right".

These asswipes haven't been hiding anything.

154 Posted by: The Narrative at March 24, 2012 01:15 PM (Y+DPZ) and his parents did not call the cops for three days to fiel a missing person report since they were afraid of the cops and were worried the cops would rough him up or jack him up on some phony charges.

155 I thought the officer said, "you don't HAVE to"
Posted by: willow at March 24, 2012 12:56 PM (TomZ9) Your quote is correct. However, it wasn't even a law enforcement officer who said it. It was a 911 dispatcher.

Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at March 24, 2012 01:11 PM (7+pP9)

i was trying to make the point, that Zimmerman wasn't told NOT TO follow him, he was told You Don't HAVE to follow him,

one is an order, one is 'well it's up to you  ' but you don't HAVE to.

156 The white guy acted stupidly, and does not look like the son I never had.

157 You mean just like Sandra Fluke the media and Barry ignore the facts and just make grandstanding accusations to further their agenda even using someone's death to do it

158 If you go to a strange neighborhood, enter a gated community, act in a way to attract attention, someone follows you and you assault him, he might just shoot you. This is a surprise?

159 124 - Posted by: pep at March 24, 2012 01:06 PM (6TB1Z) Pep: I would add this; the default position of the left is that whites are inherently racist and that every aspect of society is geared against them - CRITICAL RACE THEORY (sound familiar)? Whatever Zimmerman is guilty of, if he is guilty of anything (which is the reasonable position to take given the trickling out of facts surrounding he incident), the criminal justice system should be allowed to take care of this. It should have never come to this level of national attention. Is it a tragic incident? Of course it is. Does it mean that Zimmerman is obviously 100% indisputably guilty but the criminal justice system is or will try to fix this so that he goes free or gets a wrist slap? No. The point about black on black or black on white violence is that it doesn't further the myth of black victimhood and so it must either be ignored, squelched, excused or minimized. This whole thing is a non-story, or at best, something that would in a sane world, be found buried in the middle of the paper. But it is a weapon, just like Sandra Fluke was a weapon. Despite the circus that is the Republican primary process, the Dems and the left are in free fall. They need to gin this crap up to deflect attention away from the disaster of the past 3 years (and the past 50-100 if you count Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Clinton and Jimmah). The question is which conservative or Republican POLITICIAN will have the balls to speak this truth, unflinchingly, come what may?

160 If some guy kept following me even after I ran from him, I would pop him one also.

You'd make a great character witness for Treyvon.

161 http://tinyurl.com/7htbf5m oh snap!

162 If we had a commie, left wing radical, race baiting rabble rousing anti-American POS as president he'd look exactly like Barry

163 171 124 - Posted by: pep at March 24, 2012 01:06 PM (6TB1Z) Pep: I would add this; the default position of the left is that whites are inherently racist and that every aspect of society is geared against them - CRITICAL RACE THEORY (sound familiar)? Whatever Zimmerman is guilty of, if he is guilty of anything (which is the reasonable position to take given the trickling out of facts surrounding he incident), the criminal justice system should be allowed to take care of this. It should have never come to this level of national attention. Is it a tragic incident? Of course it is. Does it mean that Zimmerman is obviously 100% indisputably guilty but the criminal justice system is or will try to fix this so that he goes free or gets a wrist slap? No. The point about black on black or black on white violence is that it doesn't further the myth of black victimhood and so it must either be ignored, squelched, excused or minimized. This whole thing is a non-story, or at best, something that would in a sane world, be found buried in the middle of the paper. But it is a weapon, just like Sandra Fluke was a weapon. Despite the circus that is the Republican primary process, the Dems and the left are in free fall. They need to gin this crap up to deflect attention away from the disaster of the past 3 years (and the past 50-100 if you count Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Clinton and Jimmah). The question is which conservative or Republican POLITICIAN will have the balls to speak this truth, unflinchingly, come what may? Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 24, 2012 YES! Critical race theory needs to be tied to everything that scoamf and his thugs do because it is the rationale for everything they do.

164 Oh, fuck no, I won't shoot him, he'll only knock me out.

165 But was Zimmerman for Mutt or Sanatarium?

Did Trayvon have an etch-a-sketch?

166 129 - It is an important distinction that, while Zimmerman was indeed, a member of his neighborhood watch, he was NOT on duty at the time of this incident. He was in his personal vehicle, going/coming from somewhere else when he spotted Martin and called 911. So, given that he has a legal concealed carry permit, he was armed, but not as part of his "official" duties as a neighborhood watchperson.

167 Racism will NEVER die, because it is now part of the core identity of blacks. They will NEVER let it die. EVER.

They have the same "victim" mentality as Muslims, and THEY are the ones who are perpetrating it.

/thanks 52% for voting in a white hating black man who is sympathetic to muslims.

168 But was Zimmerman for Mutt or Sanatarium? Did Trayvon have an etch-a-sketch? Posted by: Vic at March 24, 2012 01:22 PM (YdQQY) he he he I wonder if he voted for zero? That will learn 'em. one more under the bus for obama progress.

169 Okay, I'm going to be a complete and utterly cynical bastard for a moment:

Why do we care about this?

The Democrats are busy blowing up their black-hispanic coalition. The media are busy making themselves look hysterical and bigoted. Black Americans are busy scaring the piss out of white moderate voters.

In a narrowly partisan sense, what's not to like? Every riot, every Korean grocery set afire is another vote against Obama in the fall.

Pass the popcorn!

170 @171
Spot on.

171 A lot of this case is going to turn on who started the fight. And I
don't think "pursuit" is going to count. Someone swung first. If it was
Zimmerman, he probably goes to jail. But if it was Martin, then he
probably doesn't.
But I've been called a dumbfuck by lawyers tonight, so I guess I'm too stupid to know how things work in my state.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at March 24, 2012 01:15 PM (G8Q6x)

No Dave I think you're exactly right. I think any possible criminal case will come down to whether Martin hit Zimmerman first or the other way around.

The first implies justified self defense - the latter makes this a manslaughter case at least.

People keep asserting that Martin attacked Zimmerman first, but as far as I am aware *no one* actually witnessed the initial encounter - just the later fighting where Martin was on top of Zimmerman. So we don't know - and may never know - a key legal detail of the case.

172 shibumi, that's a rather all encompassing statement.

173

122
What is the point of this post?

 

I know what you're saying, Soothsayer. ....The flaming and the arguing over this is, well, not helpful. ....But what is helpful, is -- exchanging information that we are not getting from the MSM, before it gets scrubbed.

 

Like the picture of Treyvon in this link:

 ------

 31 ...Want a more recent pic of the innocent child Treyvon? Try this one at My Pet Jawa -

 

http://tinyurl.com/7htbf5m

 

-----

 

Thanks for the link, Rmoney. ....That is interesting. .....The 'little angel' Treyvon, shooting the middle-finger with both hands, with the words "Made Ni@@a!!" and "Waters Ave!!" written on the photo.

 

I wonder what "Waters Ave" means...?

174

I don't think Spike Lee was involved in the Tawanna Brawley case. 

 He just inserted it into 'Do the Right Thing'. 

Now, Al Sharpton he was the one claiming the girl had been slathered in dog shit and stuffed into a garbage bag by the fictitious cop(s) who didn't rape her.

175 I'm sure our Attorney General will get right on supporting the Hispanic guy's civil rights

176 >>What we need is a combination Trayvon v Zimmerman thread with a Mutt v Sanatarium thread all mixed together.

That, and make it and X:Y thread.

177 What? The kid who is on top must have attacked? That's just ridiculous. If you walk up behind someone, say something to get their attention, they turn around, and you either strike first or brandish a gun you would be the attacker and you could very well still end up with your victim on top of you and a cut on the back of your head. The witness didn't see Trayvon attack Zimmerman; he just saw Zimmerman and Trayvon fighting, which we already knew. What motivation would Trayvon have to first run from Zimmerman (Zimmerman says he's getting away in his 911 call) and then attack? If Trayvon was scared (which is what he said to his friend on his cell phone) it doesn't make sense that he'd turn around to attack Zimmerman once Zimmerman was no longer chasing him. If he was out to attack Zimmerman, and they were the only two out on the street at the time, why would he initially run away? Why would he attack Zimmerman alone, anyway? Zimmerman has a history of attacking people he feels are wronging him (he attacked an officer who was arresting his friend; his former fiancee filed a protective order alleging he attacked her after she ended their engagement) and he's already called Trayvon an asshole and, at best, a punk. Meanwhile, Trayvon isn't necessarily a saint, but he doesn't have any reported history of violence, he's expected home shortly, and no motive for him to attack Zimmerman seems really obvious---Zimmerman's not a woman he can rape, they don't have an ongoing personal beef, Zimmerman's not a member of a rival gang, and it's possible, but not too likely, that Zimmerman was carrying something valuable that Trayvon wanted to steal, and, anyway no one has alleged that Trayvon approached Zimmerman the way a mugger would.

178 This story has been seized upon as a pretext to whip up hysteria and turn out the black vote in November...

179

Well if he was on top of me and trying to beat the shit out of me, I'd drill him too. Better than handing him a loaded gun and getting killed myself.

That's deadly force, especially if the assailant is 6'2 and the other guy is an adult with a CC and a gun. Who raised that idiot?

Pretty fucking stupid.

I've been disgusted with the commenters here with this rush to judgement.

Unlike that shitstain Obama and his pals, there is still a presumption of innocence at play here.

Let an honest jury decide.

180 I wonder if they checked for drugs in zimmerman and whatshisname? be a shame if someone was all cracked up or something.

181 The only way this will be solved is with a open and public trial.
Then when he is found not guilty then the sales of plywood would climb and the riots will continue. If George Zimmerman does survive he will make millions on the post trial interviews and tv deals.

182 People keep asserting that Martin attacked Zimmerman first, but as far as I am aware *no one* actually witnessed the initial encounter - just the later fighting where Martin was on top of Zimmerman. So we don't know - and may never know - a key legal detail of the case.

Posted by: Mætenloch at March 24, 2012 01:25 PM (+B3Nr)

that's true at the popint where zimmerman is out of his truck, (although on the phone he was Not running) it gets really fuzzy.

183 did he try to stop Trayvon at this point while waiting for the police to arrive?

184

From the JAWA Report:

The Family of the victim, understandably, is outraged. They received an outpouring of support from the community. But what's most disturbing is, in that support, there have been calls to execute the accused killer. No trial, no jury. Guilty without representation.

And the Obama Administration is silent. Well, not completely silent. President Obama took a moment to further incite emotions in this case by declaring the victim, Trayvon Martin,  would look like his own son would look, if he had one.

Did you mean black, Mr. President Barrack "The Uniter" Obama? Instead of representing Americans as a whole, instead of defending the Constitution, instead of ensuring Zimmerman's rights are protected, the President of the United States has taken sides, based only on skin color.

185 What? The kid who is on top must have attacked?

No one said that, half-wit.

186 I'd still like to hear from Carolina Punk.  In the meantime, let me point out that he has an unfortunate hash, or maybe fortunate, depending on your POV.

187 The Democrats are busy blowing up their black-hispanic coalition


Problem is, Zimmerman is being portrayed as white. I've been reading some local blogs and it's hilarious to watch the people who for months have been saying voter id is racist because it affects hispanics, now bend over backwards to say well, hispanics are really white dontcha know. So yeah, i'll bet if you took a poll right now 95% or higher would say Zimerman is white because that's what the media says.

188 Zimmerman has a history of attacking people he feels are wronging him (he attacked an officer who was arresting his friend; his former fiancee filed a protective order alleging he attacked her after she ended their engagement) and he's already called Trayvon an asshole and, at best, a punk. Meanwhile, Trayvon isn't necessarily a saint, but he doesn't have any reported history of violence, he's expected home shortly, and no motive for him to attack Zimmerman seems really obvious---Zimmerman's not a woman he can rape, they don't have an ongoing personal beef, Zimmerman's not a member of a rival gang, and it's possible, but not too likely, that Zimmerman was carrying something valuable that Trayvon wanted to steal, and, anyway no one has alleged that Trayvon approached Zimmerman the way a mugger would.

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 01:26 PM (snRY5)

thanks for new info.

189 have a link? jenny?

190 Why is it not just as plausible that the dispatcher said, "You don't have to follow the guy", so Zimmerman turns around to get back in his vehicle and gets conked over the head by Martin?  Or am I missing a step?

191

Awaiting the Navy's commissioning of the USS Trayvon.

192 According to Jawa Report, the New Black Panthers have put out "Wanted Dead or Alive" posters on Zimmerman.

Nice.

Paging Eric Holder...oh, wait....

193 how incompetent does zero have to be that with all of his resources and connections he could not find out that whatshisname had a picture like that? I assume all of his facebook, myspace, twitter, and other social media have bee locked down tight so only friends and sympathetic people can access them, but zero must have been on the list of race hustlers, race baiters, and grievance mongers with access. how stupid doe he have to be to deliberately wade into something he doe not know anything about? some law education.

194 Meanwhile, in Nashville, a couple of Deliverance-extra rednecks attacked and raped four innocent African immigrants: http://tinyurl.com/7vuu4nd

Well, something like that.

195 No one said that, half wit. That's exactly what this post infers. And let's not be cocksuckers with the name calling.

196 implies, rather

197

Trayvon isn't necessarily a
saint, but he doesn't have any reported history of violence

 

He's a minor.  Even if  something was reported, it would be awful hard to get your hands on it.

198 By the way, that dispatcher seems to have wandered out of a British World War I movie. A 911 call is not the time for ironic understatement. Instead of a stiff-upper-lip "We don't need you to follow him" how about an explicit "Don't follow him"?

199 Where's LULAC  and La Raza in all this?

200 I wonder what "Waters Ave" means...? Posted by: wheatie at March 24, 2012 01:26 PM

From my observations of gang culture and graffiti in Los Angeles, nowadays the smaller gangs or subsidiaries of larger gangs ID themselves by the street they "control"

201
Did you mean black, Mr. President Barrack "The Uniter" Obama?
Instead of representing Americans as a whole, instead of defending the
Constitution, instead of ensuring Zimmerman's rights are protected, the
President of the United States has taken sides, based only on skin
color.

Posted by:mama winger at March 24, 2012 01:28 PM (P6QsQ)

'Instead of representing Americans as a whole, instead of defending the'

and what we already knew back in the rev wright days. He did not want to represent ALL some americans He agreed with for a miriad of reasons 'ideaology being the biggest'ones he wanted to .

the rest of us were hated and mocked, heckled etc.

202 That's exactly what this post infers.

No it doesn't, idiot.  It says we shouldn't rush to judgment.

203 Thanks Maet - One big point in there is if it can't be proven who started the fight, the only witness is Zimmerman.  Presumption of innocence then applies.

But we do have facts that say Zimmerman was getting beat up by Martin, and did call for help to stop Martin from beating him.  That will weigh heavily in the decision to not prosecute, if no witness or evidence to the start of the fight can be found.

Like I've said, I've been on the Martin side of this emotional rollercoaster.  I was mightily pissed to find out that someone could stab a kid and the person getting stabbed gets arrested.  All for trying to defend some girl.  But on reflection, I have thought about what that means.  I travel a lot and my wife has a CCW.  If someone were to break in, or attack her on the street, I don't want her hesitating for any reason by wondering if she might be at fault because she flipped someone the bird.

204 If Trayvon was scared (which is what he said to his friend on his cell phone)





I have to chuckle at that.  I can't imagine any 17 year old male telling a girl that he's scared.

205

208  Why is it not just as plausible that the dispatcher said, "You don't have to follow the guy", so Zimmerman turns around to get back in his vehicle and gets conked over the head by Martin? Or am I missing a step?

 

Its kind of hard to fake a head wound to the back of your head. ....I would imagine that this detail   [head wound, back of head]   is in the police report.

206 217 Where's LULAC and La Raza in all this?
Posted by: Dr Spank at March 24, 2012 01:33 PM

I've wondered about that too, the Latinos aren't joining in on the feeding frenzy against Zimmerman

207 yikes, i really mashed up that comment, sorry.

208

According to Jawa Report, the New Black Panthers have put out "Wanted Dead or Alive" posters on Zimmerman.

 

Fact : The Black Panthers are crazy for Bon Jovi.

209 184

Pass the popcorn!

Posted by: Trimegistus at March 24, 2012 01:24 PM (v9Kjt)

Yepper...

210 how stupid doe he have to be to deliberately wade into something he doe not know anything about? 

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 24, 2012 01:31 PM (Z9EHQ)

As stupid as he was to do it the last twenty times.  Barky's got an IQ hovering around 84 and no sense of decency, whatsoever.

211

The issue isn't whether Martin ultimately attacked Zimmerman.  The issue is whether Martin was justified in doing so.

Here's what we have:  Zimmerman was following Martin at night in a car with a gun.  He called 911, was told he didn't have to do it...and CONTINUED to do it, getting out of his car.  Zimmerman must have an absolutely rock-solid explanation for that.  When you're giving chase to someone you outweigh by 70 pounds at night and you're armed, YOU are the threat.

My view on this has always gone back to one simple thing:  I want to be left alone.  I don't want you screwing with me.  And if you do, I will answer it.  And I don't want you to have the right to kill me over that.

Go back to Bernie Goetz.  I always felt some sympathy for the guy.  Ultimately, he went too far...but he didn't start it.  He just wanted to be left alone.

I'm very uncomfortable with a "stand your ground" law that would not protect 100% my right to be left alone.

212
Three years ago an illegal alien (Hispanic) provoked a fight with some white kids who stomped his ass. A few days later he died from the ass kicking.

At a local trial the kids were only found guilty of simple assault, but not guilty of other charges such as third-degree murder, aggravated and ethnic intimidation, charges brought on by allegations that racial slurs were yelled during the fight.

Then Holder's DOJ stepped in and had the kids convicted of hate crimes and the police chief and the deputy chief convicted of covering up evidence.

They're all doing long prison sentences.

Word of this kind of stuff gets around the LEO community fast. I'm sure police chief in Florida knew about it and Holder's reputation. He probably made damned sure he acted professionally and within the law, seeing that he didn't want to serve a 20 year sentence.

But I predict Holder will find some way to put both Zimmerman and the police chief in prison.

That's Holder's job -- to oppress the "oppressors".

213 According to Martin's own Facebook he is a gang member

214 You know, in all the threads and comments I've read about this I've read that no one is sure what happened when the fight started Guess what....according to the law that means zimmerman walks on this one, reasonable doubt can be a bitch Just ask oj

215 I liked Aces post on this yesterday.   Great reminder that the MarxSpewMedia lie like rugs.   It is interesting that the MBM had to resort to this case, where the shooter only has a white sounding name, but is in fact hispanic and puts the CommieInChief in position of taking a side against hispancis.   Perhaps with a bit of luck this turns into another Fluke affair where the story bites the lying liberals harder than their target. 

216 No it doesn't, idiot. It says we shouldn't rush to judgment. Where? And why do you need to be such a defensive cocksucker, rd?

217 220 That's exactly what this post infers.

No it doesn't, idiot. It says we shouldn't rush to judgment.
Posted by: rdbrewer at March 24, 2012 01:34 PM (Iyg03)

No the title of the post - and the title of the original article - are very misleading. The wording 'attacked' versus 'was beating' implies that Martin started the entire physical incident - which we don't know.

218

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 01:26 PM (snRY5)
Umm....

Didn't Trayvon get booted out of school for fighting, the little dear?

This whole thing stinks. Very murky. It's a jury matter.

I remember the hysteria bout Richard Jewel. This is a thousand times worse with the race pimps and violent threats from an entire criminal class.

PS

Plus, this "diamond merchant" would like to gut that fucktard Sharpton.

219

 I wonder what "Waters Ave" means...?

 

That would probably be the 'sept' he is affiliated with.

220 i could see trayvon being scared.
hell it's an older guy following him.

but either we trust the witness's or we don't
that night's witness's would have been the best to me. everyone was probably shocked but honest about what they thought was seen .

221
I wonder what "Waters Ave" means...?



Probably just a local social club he works with in organizing easter egg hunts for local children...

222 This, like Wisconsin, like everything else that provides a call to arms for the left, will never be over.

223 Someone brought the subject up. Someone else said the word "Duke". Another said "Sharpton".

Interesting...I think Ace's comparison to Richard Jewell is right on the nose.

He fit the template perfectly: Awkward, overzealous police wannabe, etc.

The difference there is that Jewell didn't actually do anything.  Here, Zimmerman undoubtedly fired the gun and there's no getting around that fact.

224 @navycopjoe

Hell, ask Casy Anthony.

225 @willow, here's one http://tiny.cc/77qobw Look, I know race-baiters and gun-grabbers are convinced this supports their narrative, but rightwingers aren't immune to that same problem.

226
This thread reeks of sheep shit -- the odor of Axelrod astroturfers.

227 There shouldn't be a rush to judgment like there was during the Duke lacrosse team case or the case of Richard Jewell, as Ace points out. And I would add Tawana Brawley to that list.

228

Fact : The Black Panthers are crazy for Bon Jovi.

 

Posted by: garrett at March 24, 2012 01:35 PM (eS2w

 

 

It's all the same.

 

Only the names change.

229 There's a Waters Ave. here in Savannah, and there are definitely sections of it you wouldn't want to be on at night.  Gangbanger City.

230 217 Where's LULAC and La Raza in all this? Posted by: Dr Spank at March 24, 2012 01:33 PM I've wondered about that too, the Latinos aren't joining in on the feeding frenzy against Zimmerman Posted by: kbdabear at March 24, 2012 01:34 PM (Y+DPZ) the racemongers at the top of their organizations may have been bought off but I am reasonably certain once the black panthers start trying to get a little justice on behalf of whatshisname the rank and file are gonna mutiny and solve things themselves. I am betting the new black panthers get the short end of the ak. especially since zero and holder have been arming the hispanics lately.

231 "I would imagine that this detail [head wound, back of head] is in the police report."

I believe it is in the police report.  Along with blood on the face and grass stains on his back.

232
BTW - Our Guy released a statement:

'The shooting of Trayvon is a terrible tragedy unnecessary uncalled for and inexplicable at this point. What weÂ’ve heard from the media reports suggest that itÂ’s entirely appropriate for the district attorney to be looking into this and to have called a grand jury and find what the facts are. We hope that justice is done in this case as in all cases. But very tragic and our hearts go out to his family his loved ones his friends this shouldnÂ’t have happened.'

Mitt Romney




tragedy
unnecessary
uncalled for
inexplicable

"Ow! My Liberal reflex kicked in again."

233 jenny, thank you for link.

234 he's already called Trayvon an asshole and, at best, a punk. Meanwhile, Trayvon isn't necessarily a saint, but he doesn't have any reported history of violence, he's expected home shortly,
 Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 01:26 PM

First, where did you get that Z called M a punk and asshole? From where did you get this new devastating information that the rest of the world doesn't have?

Trayvon was expected home shortly? His body sat in the morgue for three days before someone in his family inquired of his whereabouts

jenny, if you're going to try hard, try not picking your "facts" up from Facebook, try the police report

235 So why didn't you just say that part? Instead you included some cockamamie piece that misleads the reader into thinking that a witness has exonerated Zimmerman.

236 Look, I know race-baiters and gun-grabbers are convinced this supports their narrative, but rightwingers aren't immune to that same problem.

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 01:38 PM (snRY5)

Uh.. and you are who?

237 Someone should get that address that the asswipe Spike Lee tweeted and contact the people and suggest a good lawyer who's willing to sue Spike Lee's scrawny ass off if someone as much as steps foot on the property.  The new black panther party has put out a wanted poster.  You know that some stupid gangbanger will try to do something to please their race overlords.

238 jenny lies too hard is just spewing shit.

239 213 - Really? You're going to advise people not to do name calling at the same time you're calling them "c**ksuckers?" Are you intending that as a joke, or are you really that ignorant?

240 >>>>Didn't Trayvon get booted from school for fighting? I don't know. Do you know of any such thing? Meanwhile we do know that as an adult, Zimmerman was involved in two different physical fights, and we know that he was the aggressor in one for sure (the fiancee thing never went very far, he-said-she-said).

241 He was currently suspended from school for TEN days, why?



I read something from the school that it was not violence-related, but rather something to do with him being in an unauthorized area of school property at an unauthorized time.  Which I translated to breaking and entering.  Of course, my translation could be off.

242 I don't know what happened.  I doubt the truth will ever come out.  No jury will convict Zimmerman of anything.

While Iran is developing Nuclear weapons, Syria is killing their own people, and lots of other problems are being ignored that Obama should be working to fix, "Look at this shiny ball!"

243 jenny lies too hard is just spewing shit. Because she doesn't agree with you.

244 http://tiny.cc/77qobw

Jen, uh hmm, seems he's had some issues. the aggression issues are something, the credit card stuff is just pile on.

the kids comments on bottom of page are bs. to me.
zimmerman has a mixed family.  i don't think racism was HIS issue. perhaps thinking he wanted to be a real cop might be?

who knows.

245

232 You know, in all the threads and comments I've read about this I've read that no one is sure what happened when the fight started
....Guess what....according to the law that means zimmerman walks on this one, reasonable doubt can be a bitch.....
Just ask oj

 

But, navycopjoe.....Zimmerman doesn't have a RaceCard®. .....Well, at least not one that Eric Holdup and his Dept of Injustice  accept as being valid.  ....Zimmerman is a "white Hispanic". So, "no reasonable doubt for you!"

246
Uh.. and you are who?

Posted by: TexasJew at March 24, 2012 01:41 PM (WKTJz)

Some Axelrod piece of shit.

247 Jury?  Did I say jury?  Shit.  You know that is racist.  That whole English Common Law.  Fucking Magna Carta.

248 "The issue is whether Martin was justified in doing so."

No it isn't.  The practice of Florida statute is pretty consistent here.  If you throw the first punch, then all bets are off.  If deadly force is used against you, then the person you attacked will not be prosecuted.

There are exceptions if you are protecting another person, such as a guy who walked for going to his car and getting a gun to shoot someone robbing a store.  But those exceptions do not apply regarding your person.

You can't hit first, regardless of how pissed off the other guy makes you.

249
I don't know. Do you know of any such thing? Meanwhile we do know that as an adult, Zimmerman was involved in two different physical fights, and we know that he was the aggressor in one for sure (the fiancee thing never went very far, he-said-she-said).

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 01:43 PM (snRY5)

Jenny, I'll bet you a hundred bucks this kid is no fucking saint.

Not saying he deserved to get killed, but this media circus is psychotic.

250
I don't know what happened. I doubt the truth will ever come out. No jury will convict Zimmerman of anything.

Until Holder drags it into a Federal Court.

251 I mentioned Monday morning quarterbacking last night. It's easy to second guess Zimmerman while sitting here at a computer munching Cheetohs while under no sense of immediate danger.

We've all been in high adrenaline situations that we've never faced before, and when your in that kind of state you're lucky if you can unzip your fly and whip out your dick to take a piss.

Stage fright, buck fever, panic, whatever. That's where the endless repetitive training comes in, so when the shit hits the fan your brain automatically knows what to do

Next time you're in a high tension situation, let everyone know how perfectly you handled things so we can pass them on to future Zimmermans

252 You can't hit first, regardless of how pissed off the other guy makes you.Posted by: Dave in Fla at March 24, 2012 01:46 PM



Unless you are a muslim, and the other guy has on a Halloween costume you don't like.

253 >>>Where do you get that Zimmerman called him a punk and an asshole Uh, it's right there in the 911 call. "These assholes always get away" Under his breath he said something, either "fucking coons" if you believe the race-baiters (I don't; I think Zimmerman is just The Wrong Asshole that I frankly worry about my sons pissing off when they are just being hoodie-wearing teenagers in the wrong place, wrong time, probably not racist) or, if you believe your lying ears, "fucking punks". Who else would he be talking about?

254 and we know that he was the aggressor in one for sure


Who hasn't punched their fiance a couple times though?

255 Yikes, some of these comments are really scary.

I wouldn't want some of you, mainly the ones that tries too hard, on my jury. That's for damn sure.

256 Threat levels:
 
Granny using a walker approaching you -- minimal, but always have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
 
Getting between Mooch and a large order of fries -- it ain't zero, pal.
 
A tall hoodie wearing male approaching -- taste that adrenaline.
 
Two guys wearing badges and guns knock on your front door -- if your asshole has been kinda loose lately, this will surely tighten it right up.
 
A gang of eight yoots toting baseball bats and wearing sneers approach -- if you haven't said your prayers lately, now would be a real good time.

257 but this media circus is psychotic.

Posted by: TexasJew at March 24, 2012 01:46 PM (WKTJz)

so true. media is certainly great at dragging out information when it suits them.

i had thought they were incapable of that during the last presidential election.

so very trustworthy, our media.

258

New info on Trayvon Martin in the sidebar.

 

Well, not new-new, just new to those who follow the MFM.

259 268. Hold up Im half Mexican.....my race card doesn't work? ****swipes card**** Son of a bit....

260 >>>Where do you get that Zimmerman called him a punk and an asshole

Uh, it's right there in the 911 call. "These assholes always get away"


Your English isn't very good. 

261 sounded liek fookn goons to me, but carry on.

262 If Zimmerman ends up killed, wonder how soon President Apology will make a statement calling for more civility and shit?

263 Why is it not just as plausible that the dispatcher said, "You don't have to follow the guy", so Zimmerman turns around to get back in his vehicle and gets conked over the head by Martin? Or am I missing a step?

Occam's Razor -

- Nothing has been released to the public that the cops didn't know on day one, the cops know a hell of a lot more than the general public - cops would love to make a murder I arrest, but the cops released Zimmerman in less than 24 hours... I find your "so Zimmerman turns around to get back in his vehicle and gets conked over the head by Martin" too simple to be true, it has to be a vast conspiracy by all the white/hispanic & black cops / witnesses / investigators / forensics experts to ad-hoc cook up evidence and testimony framing of Martin.

264 283 This has been: When Keepin' It Real Goes Wrong Posted by: Z Ryan at March 24, 2012 01:49 PM (U9NWP) that is funny. too bad chapelle would not do this in one of those skits.

265
I don't know what happened. I doubt the truth will ever come out. No jury will convict Zimmerman of anything.


Until Holder drags it into a Federal Court.
Posted by: Ed Anger





Let's not forget the inevitable civil case against Z, the city, the gun manufacturer and anybody else the lawyers can think of.

266 Living in the town all this transpired in I think its all a sham cooked up by race baiting leftist..  They don't want justice just division.

Here is how they treated the mayor at that farce of a rally.

http://youtu.be/0cv9s0wjuhw?t=45s

To give Rep Brown credit she did come up after and bitch out the crowd but it is a nice glimpse.

A lot of the rally was ass hats congratulating themselves on the largess or the event and the "movement".  Its not about about justice, it is about power and intimidation.

267 Tru, bro, that pic is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. You can find thousands of young teen wannabe punks (boys of girls of all colors) posing like that. That's what they do. It is completely normal.

268 124 Carolina Punk- I'm interested in your take on my #19 and JJSefton's #94. Any comments? Sure, many blacks, even those who *ahem* "act white" as a matter of course will not allow an insult to get pass them especially when that insult is seen to stem from a racist (intentional or not) stand point. The most common example for me the white lady who you can tell holds her purse a little tighter when you get in the elevator even though you are not dressed like thugnificant. I can easily imagine Martin being offended that this man was following him in his dad/dad's GF neighborhood for no other reason than he was walking while black. He was still a teenager and maybe made a mistake in dealing with Zimmerman, he should not have ended up losing his life for that. Martin had just as much right to be there as Zimmerman. #94 White on black crime, and black on white crime pale in comparison to black on black crime. Which is why/how Republicans should always defend the high incarceration rates of at least violent criminals, (there are studies to show that black non violent drug users are disproportionately jailed in comparison to whites) those jail sentences protect other black victims most. Not white people. But because blacks are more likely to commit a violent crime or burglary does not absolve Zimmerman when his actions go above and beyond what neighborhood watch is supposed to do and now a kid is dead. I believe Sharpton (douche bag yes, but a broke clock can be right once a 30year period) said a few years ago, "when i'm out at night and someones behind and they aren't black I breathe easy", but if it was a black man no one get license to just blow them away for merely being suspicious.

269 billy bob, a hispanic in a very ethnically diverse family.
yeah doesn't seem likely.

270 Yeah, I get that Trayvon's probably no saint. I think, again, that Zimmerman is just The Wrong Asshole. Any of you who have teenage sons or teenage brothers of a certain type know what I'm getting at. My older stepson, 18, is a kid with a mouth and a chip on his shoulder. He's getting better with age but still, sometimes I look at him and go "Kid, I love ya but if you don't get your shit together, one day you're going to piss off The Wrong Asshole and it's not going to be fun for you." I think it's infinitely more likely that a kid who was walking along answered a What-Are-You-Doing-Here with a smart-ass remark and ended up pissing off The Wrong Asshole than that Trayvon went out, bought Skittles, and then decided, hey, I'll a attack neighborhood watch just for fun

271 The black community in this country should be focusing their attention on black on black crime, which probably accounts for about 95%  or more of all criminal incidents in their communities.  Who rapes most black women?  Black men.  Who assaults/murders most black people?  Other black people.  Who rob and steal from black people?  Other black people.    The MSM and the usual race mongers are trying their best to bring back the worst days of race violence from the 60's. 

272 278 >>>Where do you get that Zimmerman called him a punk and an asshole

Uh, it's right there in the 911 call. "These assholes always get away" Under his breath he said something, either "fucking coons" if you believe the race-baiters (I don't; I think Zimmerman is just The Wrong Asshole that I frankly worry about my sons pissing off when they are just being hoodie-wearing teenagers in the wrong place, wrong time, probably not racist) or, if you believe your lying ears, "fucking punks". Who else would he be talking about?

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 01:48 PM (snRY5)

Fucking punks have been causing crime in that neighborhood.

I'd have said a lot worse.

273 288 If Zimmerman ends up killed, wonder how soon President Apology will make a statement calling for more civility and shit?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at March 24, 2012 01:51 PM (UOM4

 

He'll say something to the effect of, "It's a tragedy when local law enforcement allow their own biases to lead to things like this."

274 291. As a white Hispanic we prefer to use boogies or spook I blame my parents

275

No it isn't. The practice of Florida statute is pretty consistent here. If you throw the first punch, then all bets are off. If deadly force is used against you, then the person you attacked will not be prosecuted.
--------------

You are wrong. And badly misinformed.  If Trayvon was assaulted FIRST he could defend himself.  Note:  An assault does NOT require touching.

Please don't post if you don't know what you're talking about.  If Zimmerman assaulted Martin, then all bets are off and he cannot invoke the castle doctrine.

Again, go back--he was giving chase at night to an unarmed man with a gun.  In my book that's assault.

276 Look over here!  a shiny ball!

This is all a distraction. 

If OTraitor gets re-elected, we need to do some deep, deep thinking about LEGAL methods of civil disobedience. 

I have already gone "John Galt".  But I do wonder what more can I do.

277 You can find thousands of young teen wannabe punks (boys of girls of all colors) posing like that. That's what they do. It is completely normal.

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 24, 2012 01:53 PM (jUytm)

It may be prevalent, but it's not normal.

278
Hold up Im half Mexican.....my race card doesn't work?
****swipes card****
Son of a bit....
Posted by: navycopjoe




See, this is why you need melanin overdraft protection...

279 294
Tru, bro, that pic is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

You can find thousands of young teen wannabe punks (boys of girls of all colors) posing like that. That's what they do. It is completely normal.

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 24, 2012 01:53 PM (jUytm)

 

Sure.  It's as irrelevant as the choirboy shot the MFM is using.

280 Tru, bro, that pic is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. You can find thousands of young teen wannabe punks (boys of girls of all colors) posing like that. That's what they do. It is completely normal. Posted by: Soothsayer at March 24, 2012 01:53 PM (jUytm) not so sure about that. even it they posed for the photo, writing the gang name is a big problem. you do not go around writing the names of gangs you are not a member of on you facebook page. the gang you are falsely claiming to belong to does not like it and then you have just identified yourself as a target for every competing gang.

281

I am still waiting to see a 'current' photo of Treyvon.

 

We live in  an  age  of  camera-phones....cameras  everywhere.   Somewhere  out  there, there has  to  be  a  more  recent  picture  of  Treyvon....more  recent  than any that  we  have  been  shown  so  far.

 

Why? ....Because we don't know what Zimmerman  was  seeing  that  night.

 

The teenage  years  are like....dog  years.   Kids  grow  and  change  so  quickly  during  the  teen  years.   .....A teenage  boy   can  beef  out  and  look  a  lot  different  in  say,  six  months,  from  how  he  looked  six  months  previously.

 

I'm  thinking  that there has  to  be  "a  reason why"  the  media  is  not showing  us the most  recent  pictures  of  Treyvon.

282 An assault doesn't require touching?  Holy crap.  I realize that spit can be considered assault, but you do have to hit somebody with something, and not just words.

283 Tru, if you were Zimmerman's lawyer and you showed the jury that photo to illustrate how Treyvon wasn't some delicate flower, you'd lose the case.

284 @TexasJew, I've said a lot worse, too. The difference is that you didn't shoot the kids you said a lot worse about.

285 217 Where's LULAC and La Raza in all this? Posted by: Dr Spank at March 24, 2012 01:33 PM Now THAT is the 64 million peso question.

286

308 I am still waiting to see a 'current' photo of Treyvon.

Again.  Sidebar.

 

 

309 An assault doesn't require touching?

 

No.  Assault can be just words.  Battery is touching.

287 Trayvon was expected home shortly? His body sat in the morgue for three days before someone in his family inquired of his whereabouts.


I have heard that it was three days... got a link?

Hard to believe that in this very tiny sub-division anyone could miss the cops cordoning off a big chunk of it from 7:30 pm until something like three in the morning... raises questions if trayon was actually a guess of his dad's girlfriend...

288 If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon.  *sees pic of Trayvon flashing gang signs with pants hanging below his undewear*

I ummm......if Moochelle had a son.......he would....ummm.....where's my sand wedge?

289

This AoSHQ circle jerk is sure interesting, but we have a presumption of innocence and a  murky situation, one dead 17 year old, sealed records, blood and grass stains, evidence of a fight, a 911 call and a lot of black racists bitching, violent threats,  and a race-pimping shitstain President.

It's a jury matter. The defense attorney will have a lot to work with here, methinks.

290 Pesos are worth as much as they used to be.

291 The race whores in the media are soulless ghouls.

Plus they are assholes.

292 Words can never justify a battery, and words alone are not an assault.  Assault involves physical activity that would lead a reasonable person to believe they were in danger of imminent bodily harm.

293 297 - I think you're probably right. Zimmerman probably did something to provoke him, whether it was just following him, or something more immediate that we have no knowledge of, either because the police haven't released it to the public, or the only witnesses would have been Zimmerman and Martin themselves. In which case, as navycopjoe says up thread, there won't be enough evidence to prosecute Zimmerman. I agree with anyone who says this incident is tragic and unfortunate, and that Martin's family deserves some sympathy. But Zimmerman deserves justice, and based on what we know now, that might mean, no arrest, no prosecution, and no conviction.

294 hey penfold. did you see my post on the last thread about my email on the yahoo group?

295 If I had a racist cousin, he'd look just like George Zimmerman

296 Pesos are NOT worth as much as they used to be.

297 310
Tru, if you were Zimmerman's lawyer and you showed the jury that photo to illustrate how Treyvon wasn't some delicate flower, you'd lose the case.

Posted by: Soothsayer at March 24, 2012 01:58 PM (jUytm)

 

I'm not a lawyer but I did manage a CVS photo lab for years.  "Gangsta" poses are common.  But they are also rightly prejudicial.  Because people know it's not OK to idolize violent criminals.

If I were to introduce this into evidence to indicate that Martin "had it coming," then that would be a bad idea.  But if I did introduce it into evidence, it would be to counteract the effect of the equally- or more-phony image of him as a saintly child that the MFM insists upon.

298 >>tragedy
>>unnecessary
>>uncalled for
>>inexplicable

He's not entirely wrong. The whole episode is tragic. Both Trayvon and Zimmerman are idiots and either of them could have prevented this if they'd had a little more sense than machismo.  Inexplicable is an understatement.

And now, look at what all the other young black kids are being told by their "role models" and heros about this.  What are they learning from all this?  Nothing good. 
Tragic.  Unnecessary. 

299 Assault involves physical activity that would lead a reasonable person to believe they were in danger of imminent bodily harm. Brandishing a gun and speaking threateningly would achieve that without touching anyone

300 311 i bet tj would if said punk was on top of him beating him unconcience

301 http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html Last Updated: 03/21/2012 18:18:22 Sanford, Florida - Waterfront Gateway to Central Florida

302 tragedy
unnecessary
uncalled for
inexplicable

"Ow! My Liberal reflex kicked in again."

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at March 24, 2012 01:40 PM (kdS6q)

 

 

Tea Party "hero" Alan West did worse than that.  I've got zero respect for any of these pandering asses who are grovelling before the race baiting reverends and the community of the perpetually aggrieved.

303 311 @TexasJew, I've said a lot worse, too. The difference is that you didn't shoot the kids you said a lot worse about.

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 01:58 PM (snRY5)

You do if he's on top of you, beating the shit out of you and trying to take your gun.

Wait for the jury. The truth will out..

304 >>No. Assault can be just words. Battery is touching.


You conflating criminal law and civil law.

305 320 Words can never justify a battery, and words alone are not an assault. Assault involves physical activity that would lead a reasonable person to believe they were in danger of imminent bodily harm.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 24, 2012 02:00 PM (Iyg03)

 

 

Tell that to most of the men who get arrested for domestic violence!

306
Im half Mexican.....my race card doesn't work?

****swipes card****

Son of a bit....

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 24, 2012 01:50 PM (Ca+zh)

And to top it all off, you're a Democrat! Sometimes life isn't fair.

Most often when life is fair.

307
Brandishing a gun and speaking threateningly would achieve that without touching anyone

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:02 PM (snRY5)

Totally making shit up, again.

308 Better get your firearms before the new ATF racism screening test

309 Regarding whether a white hispanic would say "coon" as a racial slur, no one under, like, 50 would use that word as a racial slur. The slur for discriminating white hispanics to use is mayate.

310

I'll just throw this out there:  If you were walking at night minding your own business and suddenly found yourself being followed by a man with a gun, would everyone agree they'd fear violence?  You'd feel as though you were being assaulted, right?

So under those circumstances, would everyone agree they'd have a right to defend themselves?

And let's be clear:  there is no doubt the man is following you, just as there was no doubt Zimmerman was following Martin.

We need to map out where this castle doctrine takes us.  If it takes us to a point where you can scare the hell out of people and kill them when they react, that's a bad law.  However, that appears to be the way many people here want the law to be.

Now, simply owning or carrying a gun shouldn't be enough to provoke a defense from someone else.  But putting someone else in immediate fear for their own safety should be.

I'm a major gun rights proponent. And I believe strongly in the concept of self defense.  And that's why I think you have to consider the implications of this from the other side.

311 The movie "Downfall" was ruined ever since it turned out Adolf was a Hispanic

312

This is all a distraction.

Posted by: Jimbo at March 24, 2012 01:55 PM (O3R/2)

 

 

Ayup. Obama and Company are thrilled about this.

 

That dickhead couldn't wait to insert himself into the tragedy to portray himself in a concerned, positive light. It takes his shitty numbers off the front page.

313 336 Brandishing a gun and speaking threateningly would achieve that without touching anyone Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:02 PM (snRY5) Totally making shit up, again. Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2012 02:04 PM (X3lox) No, I'm not saying that happened here. I'm saying that you can put someone in position to "stand their ground" without laying a hand on him or her.

314 Huh. I can find Spike Lee's house's GPS coordinates online.

315 I'll just throw this out there: If you were walking at night minding your own business and suddenly found yourself being followed by a man with a gun...

Is he holding the gun in plain sight, or are you seeing the gun with X-ray vision?

316 You all need to up the dosage on  your Propranolol.

317 329 311 i bet tj would if said punk was on top of him beating him unconcience

Posted by: navycopjoe at March 24, 2012 02:02 PM (Ca+zh)

You bet your ass.

I've got a CC and I would be as a free as a bird.

Of course, I sure wouldn't be dumb enough to chase some punk around in the dark (that's why we have police), but that, as I said, is for an actual jury to decide and not some probated Rap star.

318 327. Can you prove zimmerman was doing that? No? Then sthu Next.....

319 I'll just throw this out there: If you were walking at night minding your own business and suddenly found yourself being followed by a man with a gun, would everyone agree they'd fear violence? You'd feel as though you were being assaulted, right?

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:04 PM (r/gGh)

Thank you for being explicit in the idea that you think Zimmerman was holding his gun out, even though there is NOTHING that says anything even close to that anywhere.   Not even in that ballpark.  That's YOUR fantasy.  You are full of shit.

320

An assault doesn't require touching? Holy crap. I realize that spit can be considered assault, but you do have to hit somebody with something, and not just words.
--------------

Many states define assault as an attempt to menace (or actual menacing) by placing another person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury.

How would you feel if someone was following you, at night, with a gun?  Specifically following you...not just out walking.  Because Zimmerman can't claim here he was minding his own business.

321

 

 

How 'recent' is that facebook picture of  Trayvon....the one at Jawa Report? ....Anyone know?

 

Someone in the comments there, mentioned that Trayvon was "a few days short of turning 18". .....See, that's what I mean. ....The teen years are like  dog  years.  Kids grow fast, and their whole 'look' can change  in  a  matter  of  months.

 

Without knowing  what  Trayvon  looked  like....on  the  night  he was  killed....we  don't  know  what   sort  of  "threat  assessment"  was  going  through  the  mind of  Zimmerman.

322 The slur for discriminating white hispanics to use is mayate.

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:04 PM (snRY5)

You're wrong guera, the proper word is "llanta".

323 Ayup. Obama and Company are thrilled about this. That dickhead couldn't wait to insert himself into the tragedy to portray himself in a concerned, positive light. It takes his shitty numbers off the front page. Posted by: ErikW at March 24, 2012 02:05 PM (MDyuS) I am not so sure this is a good thing. He may have deliberately ginned the problem up but I do not think this is going to work out in a positive way for zero. it is not going to split conservatives, it may split the hispanic vote, and if he needed to do this to motivate the african American vote that is a bad sign for him.

324
No, I'm not saying that happened here. I'm saying that you can put someone in position to "stand their ground" without laying a hand on him or her.

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:05 PM (snRY5)

You're clearly implying that, since you could have picked a million other examples or weapons to use to illustrate a general point about threatening without touching.

325 There are three kinds of Latinos.  There are the white kind with lots of Spanish (You know, that evil European) heritage.  They think that sending a daughter to college is a waste of money.  Their sons learn how fencing and horseback riding. 

Then there are the brown kind, with little or no Indian blood who while genetically similar to the "white Latino" claim to be "Brown Latino" so they can scam on all the Affirmative Action goodies.

Then there are also the really dark Latinos with very little European bloodline.  These are the guys digging trenches and busting their butts to bring optical fiber to my house.  I respect them the most.

326 Treyvon Martin turned 17 one month ago, Feb 25th, I believe I read on the police report. He was a junior in high school, I'm assuming.

327 351 The slur for discriminating white hispanics to use is mayate. Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:04 PM (snRY5) You're wrong guera, the proper word is "llanta". Posted by: TexasJew at March 24, 2012 02:08 PM (WKTJz) Ha! There's that. I'm half-Mexican, and always heard mayate from old people who didn't black guys. No idea what the kids are saying these days.

328 I can easily imagine Martin being offended that this man was following him in his dad/dad's GF neighborhood for no other reason than he was walking while black.

How 'bought jumping a security fence / gate and then casing the neighborhood?

329

Posted by: Jimbo at March 24, 2012 02:09 PM (O3R/2)

Suddenly, you made me hungry for M&M's.

330 @yankeefifth

I did see your post to your email address. I will try to reach out this week. I am buried at work for the moment.

331

Thank you for being explicit in the idea that you think Zimmerman was holding his gun out, even though there is NOTHING that says anything even close to that anywhere. Not even in that ballpark. That's YOUR fantasy. You are full of shit.
-------------

Okay, suppose you were just being followed then.  You don't know they have a gun, but you know you know someone is giving chase.  Specifically followed.  Does someone have a right, at night to specifically follow you everywhere you go?  Then to shoot you when you react?

Again, this is someone not minding their own business.  They are following you.

You can't act like we don't know anything here.  The guy DID have a gun.  Maybe Trayvon didn't know it.  But he did know this:  the guy was specifically following him for no good reason.

I just wonder if everyone here is really okay with that, especially if it turns out the person following them does have a gun.

I'm not suggesting Zimmerman should be charged with 1st degree murder.  But if I'm ever in a situation where someone follows me at night with a gun, then kills me when I react to the chase...well, I want tough questions answered.  You gotta do better than "he punched me".

332 I can easily imagine Martin being offended that this man was following him in his dad/dad's GF neighborhood for no other reason than he was walking while black. I am sure he was offended and that increases the likelihood he swung first.

333

Posted by: HeatherRadish at March 24, 2012 02:02 PM (hO8IJ)

 

Zimmerman was on a neighborhood watch protecting his family and property instead of sitting on his ass blogging about it. He was following somebody, not chasing, all the while communicating to "authorities" via 911 calls. I have done the same thing! I don't shirk when i see something suspicious, i get involved. What you gonna do when you see nervous behavior in the aiport? Sit around and see what happens next? What you gonna do after multiple break-ins around your home? Run and hide when you see somebody dressed like a gang-banger? Dems hope this puts an end to the watch programs by making people afraid of getting involved.

334 Any else hear the GOP leaders and The Jebster support Z? I didn't either...

335 353 No, I'm not saying that happened here. I'm saying that you can put someone in position to "stand their ground" without laying a hand on him or her. Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:05 PM (snRY5) You're clearly implying that, since you could have picked a million other examples or weapons to use to illustrate a general point about threatening without touching. Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2012 02:08 PM (X3lox) No, that's silly. If the weapon is a knife, and you can run, you probably should even if you have no legal obligation to. Ditto for a tire iron or most other weapons. Only if the weapon is a gun, or maybe a Chinese throwing star, something that can kill you from a distance, should you attack instead of run.

336 Were did all these fucking TROLLS come from?  Did George Soros just take a dump?

337 @yankeefifth I did see your post to your email address. I will try to reach out this week. I am buried at work for the moment. Posted by: Penfold at March 24, 2012 02:11 PM (1PeEC) fair enough good luck with everything. fyi I find this a great aid for getting stuck on weekend conference calls.

338

And you know for a fact that the guy that was shot knew that a gun was involved? I didn't know that Alvin was the one with brains, but you sure aren't.
-------------------

The guy being followed doesn't necessarily need to know that.  The bigger point is that the guy following DOES have a gun.

Are you okay with armed men out and about specifically targetting people who have not committed crimes to follow about?'

Again--what would you do if you were being followed at night by someone?  Nothing?  You wouldn't be scared?

Should it turn out that person has a gun, would they be justified in killing you if their act of following you provokes a fearful reaction?

This is not where you want the law to go.

339 What is sad.. we will never know the truth because the race baiters have taken over. These idiots dont care about a dead teenager.. his body is a just a prop.

340 363 - Maybe, but it's also possible to be OVERLY involved, like following strangers in your neighborhood who aren't doing anything other than being in your neighborhood. It's not a good idea for any of us to be asserting we know either individual was COMPLETELY innocent here, when we just don't know.

341 mayate?  Kind of like German Jewish "Schwartz"

342 No, that's silly. If the weapon is a knife, and you can run, you probably should even if you have no legal obligation to. Ditto for a tire iron or most other weapons. Only if the weapon is a gun, or maybe a Chinese throwing star, something that can kill you from a distance, should you attack instead of run. Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:12 PM (snRY5) you really are trying too hard. what do you think the odds are that he was going to be able to shoot and hit something in those conditions?

343 You can't act like we don't know anything here. The guy DID have a gun. Maybe Trayvon didn't know it.

The reasonable assumption would be that Trayvon had no idea that he was going to get shot. Assuming that (based on no other info) it comes down to whether Zimmerman physically attacked or threatened Trayvon (as you have implied over and over and over, but no one knows and the evidence that we do know does not point to it).

You are also fond of conflating "following" and "chasing".  In English, those two words mean different things.

344 Meanwhile...

The average gas price currently is $3.82 and the unemployment rate for blacks 14.1% (that's the lowball number of course).

But we could just continue to let the media talk about this one case.

345  "Because Zimmerman can't claim here he was minding his own business."

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:07 PM (r/gGh)

 

He had no right to be walking in, yea, policing, his own neighborhood?

346 He may have deliberately ginned the problem up but I do not think this is going to work out in a positive way for zero.

Agreed.

347 Zimmerman was ona neighborhood watch protecting his family and property instead of sitting on his ass blogging about it. He was following somebody, not chasing, all the while communicating to "authorities" via 911 calls. I have done the same thing! I don't shirk when i see something suspicious, i get involved. What you gonna do when you see nervous behavior in the aiport? Sit around and see what happens next? What you gonna do after multiple break-ins around your home? Run and hide when you see somebody dressed like a gang-banger? Dems hope this puts an end to the watch programs by making people afraid of getting involved.

Posted by: Cicero Kid at March 24, 2012 02:12 PM (3bWHe)

 

 

That's exactly right!  The race hustlers want to remove as many laws, watch programs, gun rights, etc, that they can to enable the perpetually ignorant culture to get even with whitey in any way they can. 

348 Here's where I don't want the law to go idiot: Into the hands of Rev Al, The New (and improved!) Black Panthers, the Miami Heat and JEF.

You left out Mitt, Newt, Rick, Jeb, and Allen West.

349 354. Whoa, let me hit you with some facts before you spew your bullshit My wife whose mom is from Madrid and is clearly in the first group has two doctorate and is a lawyer and we plan on sending her to the best schools and help her get the best advanced degrees Im in the second group cause my mom is from Mexico city, my sisters and i all have master degrees and are retired from our first careers, we don't use any bullshit programs Nice stereotyping cracker

350
Tea Party "hero" Alan West did worse than that.
Posted by: Havedash



West was god awful.

Also saw this today.  Congressional staffers, Democrats and Republicans, organized a hoodie clad protest on the Capitol Steps.

So, apparently our Representatives gave their staffers the OK to emote on stage for the cameras.

351
No, that's silly. If the weapon is a knife, and you can run, you probably should even if you have no legal obligation to. Ditto for a tire iron or most other weapons. Only if the weapon is a gun, or maybe a Chinese throwing star, something that can kill you from a distance, should you attack instead of run.

Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:12 PM (snRY5)

Okay.  You've convinced me. You're an idiot.

352 350 Without knowing what Trayvon looked like....on the night he was killed....we don't know what sort of "threat assessment" was going through the mind of Zimmerman. Posted by: wheatie at March 24, 2012 02:07 PM (dEMjC) How do you do italics? I usually just read here... anyway why would that matter what Martin looked like? He was not in the process of committing a crime, and Zimmerman should have stayed away and been the 28 yr old adult (yes virginia even in Obamaville 28 is an adult) This is why you don't play cop. Cops are trained and get qualified immunity in these cases, we as civilians do not. Even under SYG you cant go looking for trouble and getting your ass beat is not reason to employ lethal force, (grave bodily harm has a specific meaning, life or limb and must pass a reasonable man test, in court) especially when you got yourself in the situation.

353 If you were walking at night minding your own business and suddenly found yourself being followed by a man with a gun... I'd definitely attack him with my bare hands.

354

Here's one champ. Why is the JEF inserting himself into this? Why is he harping on this while ignoring multiple gun deaths in dear old CHicago?
----------------

I'm not a liberal or a Democrat.  I'm not answering for what Obama or Holder or anyone on the left says about this.  Sharpton and Jackson and Farrakahn are don't represent me.

I'm a gun rights advocate.  A strong believer in the second amendment and a strong believer in self defense.

I'm also a strong believer in this:  Leave me the f**k alone when I'm minding my own business.  That applies to politicians and busybodies.  It applies to do-gooders.  And it applies to overzealous neighborhood watch people.

 

355 369 - Once you use a term like "specifically targeting," you lose all credibility.

356 Again--what would you do if you were being followed at night by someone? Nothing? You wouldn't be scared? Should it turn out that person has a gun, would they be justified in killing you if their act of following you provokes a fearful reaction? This is not where you want the law to go. Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:14 PM (r/gGh) so how do you know when you are being followed? and, if you are being followed and the threat is some sort of random violence such as a mugging - as opposed to a hit, wouldn't you be better to duck in somewhere with a lot of people and or call the cops?

357 Are Obama's internal polling numbers so pathetic that he feels the need to gin up the base with a little race hustling?  And send out the trolls to conservative/libertarian sites to spew lefty bile.  Somebody make some more popcorn!

358 I don't what the odds were; I know that I'm not the first person to say "Run toward a guy with a gun, and away from a guy with a knife" But the point is that it doesn't take *touching* to create a situation in which one is justified in defending himself. In El Paso, my kids' doctor was confronted by a guy who somehow made it appear that he had a gun (hand in jacket pocket, I think?) and threatened him. Dr. Segapelli then shot him dead and was never charged. That makes sense to me.

359 Yeah, saying there are three types of Hispanic is... dumb. That's like saying there are three types of English-speaker.

navycopjoe, probably not worth getting angry at him, a well-placed "LOL" would do fine.

360

 He had no right to be walking in, yea, policing, his own neighborhood?

-----------------------

Again, I'll put it to you:  how would you feel if you were being followed/chased at night in your own neighborhood?  Would you feel as though that person was well within their rights to do that, no matter how scared it made you?

Let's just suppose Trayvon was a woman, being followed by a guy with a gun.  An attractive woman running at night.  Followed by a large male.  Maybe she knows he has a gun, maybe not...

Can that woman really do absolutely NOTHING to defend herself before the other person actually touches them?

361 I'll just throw this out there: If you were walking at night minding your own business and suddenly found yourself being followed by a man with a gun...

Is it an open carry state? Is the man wearing a uniform? Is the man actually following me or just going the same direction?

The last is key cause I do not know unitl I made four left turns and he is still there... hey maybe I'll call my girl and express my fear that I may be followed...

362 What if you're inside but the guy has a Chinese windowbreaker?

363 navycopjoe,

I stand corrected.  Did Mexican society change that much?  Glad to hear it.

364 Theodore, I suppose if Trayvon were a leprechaun riding through the neighbourhood on a rainbow the situation would be even more different

365

so how do you know when you are being followed? and, if you are being followed and the threat is some sort of random violence such as a mugging - as opposed to a hit, wouldn't you be better to duck in somewhere with a lot of people and or call the cops? 

-------------

Well, Trayvon in this case happened to be correct.  He  was being followed.

And perhaps you're right.

Though, I've found myself in this situation, and even with a cell phone on me, my reaction was not to call the police, who would show up 15-20 minutes later.

366 There are two types of women...

367 378 Posted by: Cicero Kid at March 24, 2012 02:16 PM (3bWHe) He doesn't have a right to engage, most neighborhood watches are not specifically trained/told not to carry guns. It is a watch, that is the point, b/c that is usually enough to make would be criminals think twice about do something if there is reasonable chance they will be seen. Watches aren't meant to catch would be criminals, they are meant to prevent the crime from occurring in the first place, just by being there.

368 What if you went to McDonald's drive-thru and they forgot the sauce for your McNuggets. Would you kill a bitch?

369 393. Nah,i just like getting chances to say 'cracker' even though Im white like the light...aiight! ! Joe gangster rap

370 Theodore, do you think Zimmerman was lying, or do you really think "stand your ground" means "lie in ambush"?

Jenny you can't imagine why Martin would duck into a dark alley and then attack Zimmerman when he followed him? Really? Are you sure you are trying hard enough?

371

Theodore, I suppose if Trayvon were a leprechaun riding through the neighbourhood on a rainbow the situation would be even more different

--------

What exactly had he done to justify being followed?

Look--if Zimmerman was reasonable in calling the cops on him just because he was walking at night, I can assure you, Trayvon was reasonable in thinking he was in some danger as well.

 

He just didn't want to wait 20 minutes for the cops to show up. But then, neither did Zimmerman, which is why he got out of his car.

372

386....How do you do italics?

 

Use brackets for your code...[ i] and [/ i]....take out the spaces I added in order  for  it  to  show  up.

 

And the 'reason'  why  it  is  important  to know  what  Zimmerman  was  seeing  on  that  night....is because  it  has  direct  bearing  on  the  self  defense  aspect  of  this  thing.

373 How many other Black Kids were killed that same day in other cities???

Why isn't Reggie Love's Lover talking about those poor kids?

374 As I've said, I've not been following this story super close.  It seems to me that many people are making the statement that Zimmerman was actively following Martin immediately prior to the shooting.  However, I am unclear as to that fact.  Perhaps I have missed it.

Zimmerman called 911.  Told them he was following a suspicious teen.  Dispatcher said police were being sent out, and that Zimmerman "did not have to" follow Martin.

Okay this is what I would like clarification on.  How much time elapsed between that call and the shooting?  Is there any evidence that Zimmerman pursued Martin after that call? 

375 Also, how did Martin know Zimmerman had a gun?

376

Theodore, do you think Zimmerman was lying, or do you really think "stand your ground" means "lie in ambush"?
----------

Robert Verbuggen on NRO has pointed out some inconsistencies in his story as to when and where he was attacked.

377 404. Yep, you gotta beat someone like aviking! !! Need my hot mustard

378

 Is there any evidence that Zimmerman pursued Martin after that call?
------

So now what...Martin PULLED him from his car?

379 What if you went to McDonald's drive-thru and they forgot the sauce for your McNuggets.

Would you kill a bitch?

Posted by: Soothsayer


I would, and have!

380 Barbecue > Hot Mustard

381

Also, how did Martin know Zimmerman had a gun?
------

he might have.  But if he didn't, so what?

Would you be frightened by someone following you at night?

382 I apologize for my earlier attempt at humor.  I regret it.  My ignorance is shameful.  Apparently my life in San Diego gave me nothing but a stereotypical perspective of Mexican culture.

There is however the reality that the Hispanics have been playing both sides of the race card.  Check it out. 

383
Would you kill a bitch?

^^^

Does this hypothetical take place in FL, because they have a track record for this type of incidents!

384 What is the catalysis to bring this forward now???


ObamaCare hearings start Monday morning. That's the reason they waited.

385 I was nowhere near this incident.  I guarantee it.

386 As Duk Koo Kim is hands are a lethal weapon.     As soon as Mr.Martin threw a punch he had brought his fists to a gun fight and was pretty much doomed. (I assume he did because of the blood)  The lesson to learn here is assault is never justified even if the ass it hassling you.

http://youtu.be/ThQFPJpVtK8?t=6m18s

387

Would you kill a bitch?

For McNugget Sauce?  It depends...

did I want BBQ or something more esoteric like Chili/Lime?

 

388 385 No, that's silly. If the weapon is a knife, and you can run, you probably should even if you have no legal obligation to. Ditto for a tire iron or most other weapons. Only if the weapon is a gun, or maybe a Chinese throwing star, something that can kill you from a distance, should you attack instead of run. Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:12 PM (snRY5) Okay. You've convinced me. You're an idiot. Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 24, 2012 02:17 PM (X3lox) Okay, you're convinced I'm an idiot. Educate me. If I, Jenny, have no gun and a guy right near me does have one, and he is using threatening language* do I have the right to attack him in the hopes that he does drop the gun, or not? Replace gun with knife, same question. *I am again not saying that this happened between Zimmerman and Trayvon. Just like when I first asserted that it's possible to make someone fear for his/her life without actually touching him or her, I'm being hypothetical.

389 You have to hand it to McDonald's to finding yet another way to serve crap and profit. McBites: McNuggets with an even less chicken-to-batter ratio. Brilliant!

390 Again, you'd have a better chance going all in on 2-7 in Texas Hold 'Em than to bet on the media fairly and accurately reporting this case. Putting that aside, this latest high dudgeon mode frenzy actually is quite good news for the Obama White House. Instead of discussing the disastrous economy and job market, and the catastrophic housing market, the chattering classes are obsessing over a two-person street crime in a small town. Conservatives, of course, like they always do, have taken the bait. From vaccines, to Planned Parenthood, to border fences, to contraceptives, to etch-a-sketches, and now to a street shooting, the conservative cognescenti have managed to allow themselves to be duped by the liberal media into not focusing on the things which actually matter to the people who will be deciding November's general election.

391 410 - Short answer MW, is that we don't know because that info is not clear, isn't known or hasn't been released to the public. What we do know, however, is that the official police investigation DID NOT result in Zimmerman being charged with a crime. That's not conclusive evidence of anything, but it is important.

392 "Would you be frightened by someone following you at night?"

Even if you are, it does not give you the right to assault them.

393 I miss the McDLT.

394 So now what...Martin PULLED him from his car? Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:27 PM


I'm not sure I follow you.  Why would Zimmerman necessarily have to be in his car? 

395 For this thread, here's some mariachi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O_O4XesuA4

Well, something like that

396 Does this hypothetical take place in FL, because they have a track record for this type of incidents! That's racist!

397 ObamaCare hearings start Monday morning. That's the reason they waited.
ObamaCare hearings start Monday morning. That's the reason they waited.
ObamaCare hearings start Monday morning. That's the reason they waited.
ObamaCare hearings start Monday morning. That's the reason they waited.
ObamaCare hearings start Monday morning. That's the reason they waited.

Just wanted to repeat this because it's so very true.

398 Theodore, why do you keep stating that zimmerman was Brandishing the gun?

fcol, quit making assumptions.

399 Amazing how eager the MFM and DNC are to bury their crowning achievement.

400 How many Blacks are killed by fellow blacks every day in U.S. Gettos? Why is this so news worthy? (Don't worry, I know the answer.) This reminds me of Muslims who are perfectly OK with their fellow Muslims being slaughtered in Syria, but God , er Allah, forbid we burn a book which was defiled by a Muslim.

401 Whose neighborhood was Zimmerman watching, or whose neighborhood was Martin crossing? I don't know how Florida works, and we don't have many "white" Hispanics (i.e., Cubans of Spanish heritage) but out here Hispanics and blacks do NOT share neighborhoods, to put it mildly.

402 Theodore, if you want to do that, what waS Trayvor reaching for when his hand went into his waste band?

lets assume ok.? knife, phone, gun, skittles.

403 "Spike Lee, who also involved himself in the Tawana Brawley case, tweeted Zimmerman's address." Spike Lee is so proudly racist that he publicly stated that he gives a hate stare to interrracial couples.

404 Again, I'll put it to you: how would you feel if you were being followed/chased at night in your own neighborhood?

Again, you keep trying to insert "chased" when there's no evidence of it.  "Followed" certainly, but "chased" would be difficult considering that Trayvon seems to have been in excellent physical condition.

As to your question, I would call 911 on the phone that I'm carrying, if I were truly afraid and unarmed.

405

Theodore, why do you keep stating that zimmerman was Brandishing the gun?

fcol, quit making assumptions.
-

Quote me where I've said he was.

We don't know when he removed the gun.  I've said specifically it doesn't matter.

406 i guess if we want to make stuff up to prove a point it's all good.

407 We're not writing affidavits here, people. It's just opinion and speculation.

408

Again, you keep trying to insert "chased" when there's no evidence of it. "Followed" certainly, but "chased" would be difficult considering that Trayvon seems to have been in excellent physical condition.

As to your question, I would call 911 on the phone that I'm carrying, if I were truly afraid and unarmed.
--------

The cops would do a good job investigating your murder when they showed up 20 minutes later.

This is why people actually carry, you know.

409 430 - Theodore is making big assumptions, but it is also true that Zimmerman had initially called from his car, then left his vehicle. We know the altercation and gunshot occurred at the back of the houses in the neighborhood, on the other side of the road, so Zimmerman had to have exited the area of his vehicle, walked or run around to the back of the houses. The how or why or even exactly when, are not known to the public at this time.

410 As to your question, I would call 911 on the phone that I'm carrying, if I were truly afraid and unarmed. Posted by: AmishDude at March 24, 2012 02:34 PM (fNK8e) I love how Trayvon is supposed to call 911 and wait for police while unharmed but fearful of being assaulted, but Zimmerman should pursue Trayvon because he's fearful of burglaries.

411

"Would you be frightened by someone following you at night?"

Even if you are, it does not give you the right to assault them.
-----------

So your girlfriend has two options if a guy follows her alone at night: hide and call the cops or run like hell.

That's it.  No right to turn and confront the other person, even when you are scared to death because you (correctly) fear you someone is giving chase.

412 don't capitalize anything islamic.  It only legtimizes that murderous death cult.

413 Let's just suppose Trayvon was a woman,((((( being followed by a guy with a gun.))))))) An attractive woman running at night. Followed by a large male. Maybe she knows he has a gun, maybe not...
Can that woman really do absolutely NOTHING to defend herself before the other person actually touches them?

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:21 PM (r/gGh)

414 Well, I hope that witness gets to stay anonymous, because the professional race baiters and the MFM will crucify him for throwing any curves in the narrative.

415

I love how Trayvon is supposed to call 911 and wait for police while unharmed but fearful of being assaulted, but Zimmerman should pursue Trayvon because he's fearful of burglaries.
------------

Exactly!

Trayvon has to run, or run and hide.  You can't defend yourself, even when you correctly fear you are being followed at night for no good reason. 

So basically, there's no reason for anyone to carry a gun!  Just call the cops!

Yeah, the gun-snatchers won't love this.

416 443 - Yesterday you were the one who had this case closed. Zimmerman was guilty, and now today you've backed off that position greatly. You've either wised up, or realized you were caught giving misleading information yesterday. Which is it?

417 All you can do at this point is sit back and watch.  The recent and relevant photo of Trayvon is out now, but that doesn't matter.  Zimmerman? Clearly hispanic.. wouldn't pass as white under any circumstance.  Doesn't matter.

  The media has their storyline.  A little 9 year old boy buying skittles and lollypops was shot by a white nazi skinhead wearing an SS uniform.  This is the outrage of outrages

I went through OJ and witnessed people I thought I respected look at the DNA evidence and say that "well, they said it was 1 in 4 billion match.. but theres 6 billion people on the planet!!!ELEVENTY!!! OJ might have a DNA twin somewhere!!" and crap like that.  Seriously, it doesn't matter if Jesus Christ and Moses came down from the clouds with a baby Mohammed child and told us that even they were outraged by the media here and were sent by Elohim to sort it out.. DOESN'T MATTER.

Don't waste your energy.  If you're in an area that may become unstable and subject to riots, then you need to prepare, son.  I want to see a well setup kill box in your front yard.  Landmines and razorwire protecting the flanks.  Get on it

418 Once again, Zimmerman's story is that he followed Martin into the alley and was attacked from behind on the way back to his vehicle.

Theodore, do you assume he is lying or do you believe Martin was justified in ambushing him?

419 Out of Cary, NC, a black male steals donation money from a handicapped white kid in a wheelchair. Story on Drudge. This follows a story of a few weeks ago where another black male stole money from white girl scouts selling cookies. In both cases, if Barack Obama had a son, he would look like the scumbag thieves in these stories. RACIAL PROFILING: For when you REALLY want to catch the perps.

420 Just wanted to repeat this because it's so very true.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at March 24, 2012 02:30 PM (KERyd)

That's the nicest thing you've ever said to me, lace.

421

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:36 PM (r/gGh)

 

you think its okay to physically attack someone for following you? really?

422

Theodore is making big assumptions, but it is also true that Zimmerman had initially called from his car, then left his vehicle. We know the altercation and gunshot occurred at the back of the houses in the neighborhood, on the other side of the road, so Zimmerman had to have exited the area of his vehicle, walked or run around to the back of the houses.

The how or why or even exactly when, are not known to the public at this time.

---------------

By that time Zimmerman must just have been checking out people's gardens.  He sure as hell couldn't still have been following this kid, right?

I mean, if he's up to nothing, then Martin should be laying dead right outside his car door.

423 @295
Sure, many blacks, even those who *ahem* "act white" as a matter of course will not allow an insult to get pass them especially when that insult is seen to stem from a racist (intentional or not) stand point. The most common example for me the white lady who you can tell holds her purse a little tighter when you get in the elevator even though you are not dressed like thugnificant. I can easily imagine Martin being offended that this man was following him in his dad/dad's GF neighborhood for no other reason than he was walking while black. He was still a teenager and maybe made a mistake in dealing with Zimmerman, he should not have ended up losing his life for that. Martin had just as much right to be there as Zimmerman.

That's really my point, though.  I have no idea what Martin was doing there, but he probably had every right to be there and was offended by being approached.  I would be.  But a wiser head wouldn't look to escalate to violence.  I'm not saying he did, but my own experience is that American blacks are very ready to escalate, especially when the prospective opponent is white.  Leaving aside the corrosive effect that has on a multiracial culture, it also leads to what I said earlier-people eventually respond, in many cases by arming themselves.  The only solution I see is for blacks to take a bit of the chip off their shoulders. 

As to your first point, I have a daughter who lives in St. Louis, where crime is rampant.  This daughter is sweet, and maybe a bit naive.  Today she spent her time volunteering to clean out an historically black cemetery.  And yet, while we were discussing the Martin case, she acknowledged that she racially profiles, because in her words, it's the only way for a white girl like her to survive.  I tell her she's right, and that she has no choice but to profile, because the simple fact is that there is very little white on white crime.  It's almost all black perps.  So even if 99% of the black population is law-abiding, she has to assume that wariness at the very least is necessary.  To be blunt, the only long term solution to the problem is for blacks to commit less crime, and remove the chip from their shoulders, whatever the historical justification for it.

424 i'm really wondering if we'll ever get the truth at this point. as the media is only interested in its agenda. what a fkn shame.

425 I love how Trayvon is supposed to call 911 and wait for police

I didn't say that.  I didn't say he had to do anything after calling.  I said I (Theodore asked what "we" would do) would have called 911.  I would have then gone for a well-lit area or a place with a lot of people.

Because Trayvon Martin was unarmed and it would have been monumentally stupid for him to even think about confronting Zimmerman who was bigger and had a car.  And, as it turned out, was armed.

426 408 ...And the 'reason' why it is important to know what Zimmerman was seeing on that night....isbecause it has direct bearing on the self defense aspect of this thing. Posted by: wheatie at March 24, 2012 02:25 PM (dEMjC) Thanks for the tip! To me as a Arm Chair Attorney, which is apparently our new favorite sport here.. b/c Zimmerman engaged first by getting out of his car and confronting him, he should not have been allowed to walk away under self defense cause he put himself in that situation. And should have to at least prove it (as self defense is affirmative i.e. he has admitted to the homicide) must prove it, in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt

427

you think its okay to physically attack someone for following you? really?

----------------

No.  Someone may be following me because they're headed my way.  But that's not what happened here.  Trayvon was being followed at night by somone who was not just "going his way."

I'd assume like most of us, you're a gun rights advocate and proponent of self-defense.  How long must you wait before you act in self defense?  Does the person following you--who is following YOU--have to actually touch you first?  YOu have to wait for that?

428 387 If you were walking at night minding your own business and suddenly found yourself being followed by a man with a gun...

I'd definitely attack him with my bare hands.




case A) But only if we know he has a gun because he is swinging it around in the air and hurling racist obscenities.

case B) If you cannot see a gun so you call your girl and tell her your scared and cower around a corner, heart pounding, hoping the man didn't see where you hid... OH NO! he found you, grabs you with superhuman strength, raises you above his head to execute the ultimate back-breaker body-slam, you scream like a little school girl, he slips on the wet grass, tumbling down you land on top, kicking and screaming trying to get off him as he holds you down.. you can't get away.. screaming "help" me as he holds on, he draws a fiendishly concealed gun, puts it to your ribs... blammo


I think Occam's razor calls it for Martin.

429 I'd like to mention Ron Paul was the only GOP candidate that didn't go all Spike Lee on Z. Sayun.

430 "So your girlfriend has two options if a guy follows her alone at night: hide and call the cops or run like hell.
That's it. No right to turn and confront the other person, even when you are scared to death because you (correctly) fear you someone is giving chase."

How do you know why they are following you?????  If you are that great of a psychic, please tell me the lottery number for tonight's drawing so I can win. 
 
Just because someone is behind you, doesn't mean they are following you to hurt you.  There is a reason it is called self-defense, you actually have to be defending yourself against something and following somebody does not meet that requirement.  

431

 I would have then gone for a well-lit area or a place with a lot of people.

---------

Where was that in this situation?  Oh yeah, maybe he should have run to someone's door!  That wouldn't have caused any alarm.

432

@ 453

THREAD WINNER!

433

How do you know why they are following you????? If you are that great of a psychic, please tell me the lottery number for tonight's drawing so I can win.

Just because someone is behind you, doesn't mean they are following you to hurt you. There is a reason it is called self-defense, you actually have to be defending yourself against something and following somebody does not meet that requirement. 

--------------

You don't have to by psychic.  Trayvon thought this guy was following him. And the guy WAS following him.

Seriously, have you never been the victim of a crime?

 

I have, and I knew it was coming.  I just couldn't do anything about it.

434 458 - I think you're being deliberately confrontational, and every time someone points out your words are conflating this situation, you back away from them. I don't get the impression you care all that much what the facts are of this case, but whatever your agenda is, leave me out of it. I want to see justice done here, I don't care about anything else.

435 Theodore, are you really ace in sock?

436

Once again, Zimmerman's story is that he followed Martin into the alley and was attacked from behind on the way back to his vehicle.

Theodore, do you assume he is lying or do you believe Martin was justified in ambushing him?
-------

Okay, the story here is now that Martin was supposed to go and hide and call the cops.  Now, where would you hide...maybe an alley?

 

So now he goes and does that...AND ZIMMERMAN CONTINUES TO FOLLOW HIM!!  What now?  What is Martin supposed to do?  Wait to be killed?

437 Burt, u mad, bro? Are you butthurt because I don't agree with you? All you do is snipe at me like a little chihuahua and I have no idea why. I never even knew you existed until I noticed you a few weeks ago. If you don't like what I write, don't read it. Or you can continue to be my bitch. Because it's obvious that I own you.

438 Should it turn out that person has a gun, would they be justified in killing you if their act of following you provokes a fearful reaction?


That right there!

When ever I am walking in the big city and notice that somebody in front of me ducks off into an alley, I cross the street - because they must be afraid that I am following them with a gun and their only just way out of it is to jump my lilly white ass when I get to the alley - a pre-emptive attack.

439

From what I have managed to gather from various news orgs and police reports, this is how it looks:

 

George Zimmerman was driving home from an errand when he spotted Trayvon Martin walking in the neighborhood, looking around and acting suspiciously (gleaned from his 911 call transcript). He called 911 and told the dispatcher this. It sounds like at this point he had already stopped and dismounted.

Martin, who was on his own phone talking to his girlfriend, observed Zimmerman was following him (note: he said following, not chasing) as belately relayed to the police by the female. Going back to the 911 transcripts, Zimmerman told the dispatch operator that at one point Martin turned and began to approach, then ran off. At no point does it sound as if Zimmerman is engaged in running. The sounds of moving air across his cell phone can be heard (as you will hear when someone is walking with the cell active), and dispatch asks if he is following. After recieving and affirmative answer, the operator tells him the 'we don't need you to do that'.

 

It is clear that Zimmerman stops forward movement shortly after that, because the wind sound stops, and they discuss who Zimmerman is, and where he should meet the responding officers. At no time was Zimmerman in a 'chase' with Martin. At no time (apparent during this time frame) did Zimmerman attempt to approach or communicate with Martin.

 

Here is where the gap occurs. At some point Zimmerman and Martin meet again, and according to police records, they meet up at the point where Zimmerman made the 911 call (the community clubhouse), where he had parked his SUV. So it would seem like Martin came back to Zimmerman, not that Zimmerman went in pursuit. It is at this point where witnesses state that they saw Martin beating a prone Zimmerman. The 2 witnesses that actually saw the fight (not the ones who heard it through their closed doors) say that Zimmerman was calling/screaming for help. Both witnesses, one boy and one adult, left the area. The boy went after his escaped dog, and the adult went to call 911.

 

It is at this point that Zimmerman produced his 9mm Kel-Tec handgun from it carry position at the small of his back (supposedly dirt and grass where on the grip) and fired once.

 

The police and prosecutors, seeing this, decided not to charge Zimmerman. Sans the MSM and race arsonists pumping inflamatory mis-information, it is a cut and dried case.

440 too bad the girlfriend on the phone didn't call the police about some strange man following Trayvor , he thought he was in danger.
it might clear stuff up about the reactions to being afraid or malice.
did she call the police when she couldn't get a hold of him for days? or call the parents?

441 Does anyone else find soothie more annoying than a week old hemorrhoid?

442

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:41 PM (r/gGh)

 

so you have a constantly evolving standard of when its okay to attack someone. martin had evaded zimmerman, zimmerman was returning to his truck. martin attacked him and was kicking his ass. and thats okay because at one point zimmerman was following him?

443

I am not so sure this is a good thing. He may have deliberately ginned the problem up but I do not think this is going to work out in a positive way for zero. it is not going to split conservatives, it may split the hispanic vote, and if he needed to do this to motivate the african American vote that is a bad sign for him.

Posted by: yankeefifth at March 24, 2012 02:08 PM (Z9EHQ)

 

 

Oh, I totally agree. As usual, he can't help but get involved in racial politics which has long lost it's effectiveness with people who have common sense. It's like a knee-jerk reaction for him.

 

It's only because of the complicit MFM and the ignoramuses who swoon in his presence are the numbers as "high" as they are. They should be in the low 30s.

444 i'm afraid there is a guy following me,
click,

days later parents realize Trayvor is missing?

445

When ever I am walking in the big city and notice that somebody in front of me ducks off into an alley, I cross the street - because they must be afraid that I am following them with a gun and their only just way out of it is to jump my lilly white ass when I get to the alley - a pre-emptive attack.
-----

Yeah right, because that's exactly what happened here?

 

What was Zimmerman doing back in that alley?  making sure everyone put their garbage out?

446

so you have a constantly evolving standard of when its okay to attack someone. martin had evaded zimmerman, zimmerman was returning to his truck. martin attacked him and was kicking his ass. and thats okay because at one point zimmerman was following him?

----------

So where was Trayvon shot.  It must have been right outside Zimmerman's car if you're right.

447 Burt, you poke and you poke and you poke at me. I've been ignoring you because I fighting on the internet is for losers. Some people, like you, can't get this whole comment thing. You can't handle it when your little world is shattered by a differing opinion. I don't care what you have to say, Burt. I suggest you do the same.

448 "You don't have to by psychic. Trayvon thought this guy was following him. And the guy WAS following him.
Seriously, have you never been the victim of a crime?

I have, and I knew it was coming. I just couldn't do anything about it."

Dude, you have got to be one of the most obtuse people around.  It doesn't matter if someone is following you, you can not do anything to that person, unless they actually do something to you.  Following someone is not a crime, but hitting someone who is following you, if they haven't done anything to you, is a crime.  Stop being such a complete douche. 

449

At no time was Zimmerman in a 'chase' with Martin.

-----------

I realize Zimmerman's a big guy. But he sounded out of breath for just walking when he says the guy is "fucking close*".

 

*He might have used another word here, not sure.

450

Dude, you have got to be one of the most obtuse people around. It doesn't matter if someone is following you, you can not do anything to that person, unless they actually do something to you. Following someone is not a crime, but hitting someone who is following you, if they haven't done anything to you, is a crime. Stop being such a complete douche.
------------

That's how I ended up getting actually attacked and robbed.  I waited.

451 Where was that in this situation? Oh yeah, maybe he should have run to someone's door! That wouldn't have caused any alarm.

Actually, it wouldn't.  If he'd calmly and politely knocked on the first door he saw, no.  If he was that frightened, it would have been a reasonable choice But clearly he came from somewhere and apparently was somewhat familiar with the neighborhood, so he would have known where there was an intersection or a store or someplace.

There's no evidence he thought he was in immediate danger, just that some creep was following him.

But again, we know that (a) Trayvon had a cell phone and (b) did not have a gun.

You asked what I would do.  Well, I wouldn't have confronted anyone. I would have acted like an unarmed man with a sophisticated communications device.

452

462....... b/c Zimmerman engaged first by getting out of his car and confronting him

 

Now, that part right there is 'something we don't know'. .....The 911 tapes of Zimmerman talking to the dispatcher...while he was observing Trayvon at a distance......tend to support the opposite. ....Which is, that Zimmerman didn't ever 'confront' Treyvon.

 

And then there is that thing about Zimmerman having a 'head wound' on the back of his head. ....How does a person fake a head wound on the back of their head?

453 anyone find it strange that according to the girlfriend talking to Trayvon during this . that she didn't contact the parents  if/she couldn't reach him?

what is that?

454

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:48 PM (r/gGh)

 

why do you make that assumption? RETURNING to his vehicle isnt the same as RETURNED to his vehicle. honestly, you have decided zimmerman was in the wrong and wont look objectively at any of the evidence. you and the court of public opinion have convicted the guy already based just on the fact that a young man is dead. that only doesnt mean zimmerman is a murderer.

455

Following someone is not a crime,

----------------

And with this I agree, generally.  If you just happen to be following them.  But this guy followed Martin into an alley.

Most people here have said Martin had an obligation to call the cops and run and hide.  And it looks like he did run.

But then I guess decided to attack Zimmerman right before he got back in his car, which is why he was found dead there.  Isn't that where his body was?

456 i was actually stalked one time and i ran to a neighbors door, they wouldn't open it because there was some screaming stranger outside.
just saying hahaha.
actually not funny. but people are scared when they don't know what's going on. 
bad for any victim. great for criminals.

457 Posted by: Cast Iron And here's this turd. Barabrian is another fucking loser. A middle aged grown man who gets on the internet and spews insults anonymously like a little bitch. You are a loser.

458

why do you make that assumption?RETURNING to his vehicle isnt the same as RETURNED to his vehicle. honestly, you have decided zimmerman was in the wrong and wont look objectively at any of the evidence. you and the court of public opinion have convicted the guy already based just on the fact that a young man is dead. that only doesnt mean zimmerman is a murderer.

-------------------

How the hell is Martin, who has been followed all the way into an alley, supposed to know Zimmerman has quit looking for him?

459 473 - I've asked you two questions today, fool. You didn't answer either one of them, which means I nailed you on your lies and distortions. You are a silly person. Bye.

460 "That's how I ended up getting actually attacked and robbed. I waited."

No I would venture to guess that you got attacked and robbed because you are a freaking moron.

461

There's no evidence he thought he was in immediate danger, just that some creep was following him.
-------

I'm sorry, I thought he actually ended up dead.  Which would be a good indicator he faced some danger that night.

462

No I would venture to guess that you got attacked and robbed because you are a freaking moron.
----

STFU.

463 "STFU."

Hey, don't get mad at me buttercup just because your an idiot.

464 @482

WTF? Or maybe Zimmerman just didn't get very far on his way back to his vehicle before Martin jumped him.

How much damage do you think I should be able to do to the person I think might be following me when I bushwack them? Can I shoot them? Can I shank them? Or do I have to stick to blunt trauma (lead pipe to the head, that kind of thing)?

465 Posted by: AZ Hi Desert at March 24, 2012 02:45 PM


Thank you for this timeline.  Exactly what I was looking for.  Thanks again!

466

I realize Zimmerman's a big guy. But he sounded out of breath for just walking when he says the guy is "fucking close*".

*He might have used another word here, not sure.

 

I sound like that after a half dozen steps while talking* And the word is that Zimmerman said f**king a**hole.

 

*6' 2" 260 lb 'big guy' with Dunlap disease. My belly done lapped over my belt.

467 FYI, under Florida law, Zimmerman could only use deadly force to defend himself if he faced the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. Long story short, if someone punches you, you can't pull out your gun and shoot him.

468

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:52 PM (r/gGh)

 

based on what did he follow him into an alley? you are just making crap up at this point. check google earth, there are no alleys in that area.

469 i'm afraid there is a guy following me,
click,
days later parents realize Trayvor is missing?Posted by: willow at March 24, 2012 02:47 PM (TomZ9)


Ya, odd that.

470

Hey, don't get mad at me buttercup just because your an idiot.
------------

I'm not mad at you.  But you are a dickhead.

I actually hope you never do find yourself in Martin's situation, because you believe at least that you're pretty much powerless to do anything but run and hide and call the cops.  Which makes it sound to me like you're also kind of a pussy.

471

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:54 PM (r/gGh)

 

he ended up dead after he started kicking the guy's ass. he had a phone, calling 911 was an option he specifically never took. instead he kept chatting w/ his GF.

472 Good to see conservatives lining up to back the busybody stalker and not the victim.

You know it's not illegal for a black person to walk around on the street, regardless of how scary he looks right?  And if some dickweed who's armed and probably either presenting or has his hand on his gun (as most people who go looking to boss other people around are) starts walking after you and making phone calls and acting super suspicious, and then he starts yelling at you and asking a bunch of questions of you, would you just meekly answer, "yes massa"?  Fuck no.  The answer in that situation is the same thing that happened here:  you might try to take him down before he jumps you.

The whole fucking thing was based on Zimmerman's action.  There is no other reason for it.  Period.  End of sentence.  If champion nosey asshole hadn't gone looking for trouble, and just fucking left it at the first phone call like the fucking police asked, the whole fucking thing wouldn't have happened.

And stop with this "gang-banging" nonsense.  He was walking down a fucking sidewalk.  He was not robbing anyone.  Wearing a hoody or looking different isn't fucking illegal.  Black people are... what's the word I'm looking for?  Oh yeah, CITIZENS.  Like everyone else.  Trayvon had every fucking right to be on that fucking public street.  He wasn't in anyone's house, he wasn't robbing a store, he wasn't in a "large group of urban youts" or however you're hiding your nascent racist thoughts.  I would have imagined that conservatives would be all about defending his right to be where the fuck he was without being molested by anyone, nosy fucking assholes itching for a fight or the police included.

473 "I'm also a strong believer in this: Leave me the f**k alone when I'm minding my own business. That applies to politicians and busybodies. It applies to do-gooders. And it applies to overzealous neighborhood watch people.

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:18 PM (r/gGh) "

 

TTTTTThankyoouuuu, for goodness sake if I get stalked and get in a fight with some loon, he now has the right to shoot me if I start winning the fight.  6'3 140lbs Trayvon versus 250lb Zimmerman with a gun.  I note people say how tall Trayvon is and exclude the weight.  He sounds more menacing that way until you realize how skinny he was.   Stay in the car and wait for the police, it's still a manslaughter charge at the least. 

 

Btw, the title is misleading, the witness says Trayvon  was beating the man with a gun who was following him.  He didn't say he saw how the confrontation started and didn't witness it.  People sometimes get aweful brave when packing heat and you don't approach a suspect alone in the dark.  If Trayvon got shot after mugging some old lady, I would have been cheering for Zimmerman to get a medal.  Once again he wasn't doing anything and police had been called!

 

It's like people are reaching real far to excuse actions that lead to this incident.   

 

 

 

 

474

based on what did he follow him into an alley? you are just making crap up at this point. check google earth, there are no alleys in that area.

--------

Go back and read the thread.  That's what other people have said Zimmerman said.  These are Zimmerman's defenders.

475 Clearly, Romney has won the nomination:  the argumentative energy has to go somewhere I suppose.

476 I haven't read all the comments, and the following may have already been asked.

We know that both people had cell phones at the time of the shooting.
We watch NCIS, and Abby can pull things out of a smart phone that will boggle the mind.
Is there any chance that internal GPS for both smart phones might show both time and movement of either phone?
And if so, would that info be recoverable?

477

489 anyone find it strange that according to the girlfriend talking to Trayvon during this . that she didn't contact the parents if/she couldn't reach him?

.....what is that?

 

Do we know for sure that she didn't? ....There is still a lot of stuff we don't know yet about this whole thing, willow. 

 

Being his girlfriend....we will probably never know if T told her "I'm gonna go get that guy" or something like that. ....And there has been so much time elapsed now, plenty of time for her to be coached on what to say, and what not to say.

 

But that thing about 'three days passed before the family claimed the body' is pretty bizarre....if it is true.

478 I would have imagined that conservatives would be all about defending his right to be where the fuck he was without being molested by anyone, nosy fucking assholes itching for a fight or the police included.

Posted by: Really? at March 24, 2012 02:58 PM (fKDZD)

"Molested".  You're fucking retarded.

479

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:59 PM (r/gGh)

 

i see one person in this thread that has said that. i have read no news story where zimmerman said that. and as i said, check google earth, no alleys.

480

We know that both people had cell phones at the time of the shooting.
We watch NCIS, and Abby can pull things out of a smart phone that will boggle the mind.
Is there any chance that internal GPS for both smart phones might show both time and movement of either phone?
And if so, would that info be recoverable?
----------

I'm sure the cops did that.  Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing their jobs at all.

481 But then I guess decided to attack Zimmerman right before he got back in his car,

I'm sorry, I thought he actually ended up dead. Which would be a good indicator he faced some danger that night.

OK, you don't seem to get it.  It seems, at least to me, that it's a distinct possibility that Martin did turn around and attack Zimmerman.  Maybe that's not the case.  But to me, he didn't act like someone who was afraid for his life at any point and he didn't end up in physical danger until he was fighting with Zimmerman.

482 "I'm not mad at you. But you are a dickhead.
I actually hope you never do find yourself in Martin's situation, because you believe at least that you're pretty much powerless to do anything but run and hide and call the cops. Which makes it sound to me like you're also kind of a pussy."

Ohhh, internet tough guy.  No actually I don't believe in assaulting people who haven't done anything to me. 

Tell ya' what champ, if you want me to be big and bad like you I can give you my address in Texas and you can come to my house,  I can teach you the meaning of the castle doctrine here in Texas and you can find out how much of a pussy I am. 

483 I changed the headline.

484 Theodore - post 475 has a summary  of events.  I don't see mention of an alley.

485 mo·lest  (m-lst)tr.v. mo·lest·ed, mo·lest·ing, mo·lests 1. To disturb, interfere with, or annoy.2. To subject to unwanted or improper sexual activity.

See definition one?  Are you familiar with how a dictionary works?

English.  Do you speak it, motherfucker?

486 503 - There are actual 911 calls in which you can hear Zimmerman repeatedly calling for help, and the time lag between his calling for help (as well as the 911 callers having heard the altercation) would indicate it was more than just one punch. Zimmerman is even quoted by one of the 911 callers, who can hear Zimmerman outside his/her window talking with police, as saying "I kept yelling for help, and no one would help me." Or words to that effect. Piecing it together, you get a picture of Martin on top of Zimmerman, beating him up, and that is when Zimmerman pulled his gun and fired one round. Now, how did the two of them end up in a physical altercation? That's not clear.

487

Ohhh, internet tough guy. No actually I don't believe in assaulting people who haven't done anything to me.

Tell ya' what champ, if you want me to be big and bad like you I can give you my address in Texas and you can come to my house, I can teach you the meaning of the castle doctrine here in Texas and you can find out how much of a pussy I am.
----------------

Haha.  So now you're inviting me to your house to shoot me?  Yeah, no wonder you're supporting Zimmerman here.  What a fucking lunatic.

488 See definition one? Are you familiar with how a dictionary works?

English. Do you speak it, motherfucker?

Posted by: Really? at March 24, 2012 03:04 PM (fKDZD)

LOL.  Sure.  Annoying is molesting. 

What an idiot.

489

Theodore - post 475 has a summary of events. I don't see mention of an alley.
------

use the "find" function on your browser and you will see a few mentions of it before I used the word.  I'm taking Zimmerman's defenders at their word, and a Zimmerman defender used the word first.

490 459 Posted by: pep at March 24, 2012 02:40 PM (6TB1Z) Agree, the only way in my view blacks as whole can help improve our lot and undo 50 years of damage by the Great Society/unwed mothers/etc is to get back to doing those things which propagate stable middle class life styles, marriage & valuing education (I do think the drug war does a large amount of harm to the black community in regard to marijuana however, also GWB and NCLB have done more to help our community than anything clinton did of SCOAMT). Being the better man, and not popping off every time someone says something to you that's offensive and maybe just explaining look that's not ok would do alot more good. Blacks too racially profile other blacks, its not new. Jaun Williams anyone? At the same time, if there is a confrontation and someone is injured and the sole basis for that incident was them being black, I as an american expect justice.

491 But that thing about 'three days passed before the family claimed the body' is pretty bizarre....if it is true.

Posted by: wheatie at March 24, 2012 03:01 PM (dEMjC)

yeah if it's true.

i would think the girlfriend after an hour or two of getting no answer, would have driven over our called parents or cops.

if anything about this is true.

492 OK, you don't seem to get it. It seems, at least to me, that it's a distinct possibility that Martin did turn around and attack Zimmerman. Maybe that's not the case. But to me, he didn't act like someone who was afraid for his life at any point and he didn't end up in physical danger until he was fighting with Zimmerman. Posted by: AmishDude at March 24, 2012 03:02 PM (fNK8e) Now, see, I agree that that's a possibility. But here's the thing---he *was* in physical danger, whether he knew it or not, as soon as Zimmerman got out of the car with his gun. Zimmerman was in way, way less physical danger than Trayvon ever was, because he had a car and a gun. Neither party was in any real danger until Zimmerman was out of the car with his gun. Zimmerman saw a guy and says, in his 911 call that he *thought* this guy was a danger in some way---he says that there's something wrong with this guy, maybe he's on drugs, etc--- but his actions after the call don't indicate that he really thought he was dangerous. If you're in a car and you see a dangerous-looking guy, you stay in the car and lock it!

493 And if some dickweed who's armed and probably either presenting or has his hand on his gun

Now you are making assumptions. Apparently his gun was in his back, but apparently he was "probably either presenting or had his hand on his gun."

BTW, dickweeds who are armed also have the right to walk around.

494

No actually I don't believe in assaulting people who haven't done anything to me.

***

Tell ya' what champ, if you want me to be big and bad like you I can give you my address in Texas and you can come to my house, I can teach you the meaning of the castle doctrine here in Texas and you can find out how much of a pussy I am.

-------

The same guy posted both of these things. 

"I don't assault people who haven't done anything to me" & "come to my house so I can kill you for calling me a pussy on the internet."

495 "Haha. So now you're inviting me to your house to shoot me? Yeah, no wonder you're supporting Zimmerman here. What a fucking lunatic."

As opposed to you who is advocating assaulting people who haven't done  anything to you, yep your the real rational person.

Who said anything about shooting someone, you have this weird fascination with guns.

496 Theodore - Okay.  I thought maybe you were reading about an alley confrontation from police reports, because you were basing a lot of your argument on this Zimmerman guy following Martin into an alley.

497 Dial it back a little, please.

498

As opposed to you who is advocating assaulting people who haven't done anything to you, yep your the real rational person.

Who said anything about shooting someone, you have this weird fascination with guns.
-----------------

I'm not advocating assaulting anyone.  You're a fucking lunatic and you exposed yourself as such by suggesting I should come to your house so you can "show me the meaning of the castle doctrine"?

What, were you going to point it out to me on the web when I got there?

499

Theodore - Okay. I thought maybe you were reading about an alley confrontation from police reports, because you were basing a lot of your argument on this Zimmerman guy following Martin into an alley.
---------------

I'm taking Zimmerman's defenders at their word.  If they don't know the story, that's their problem.

500

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:11 PM (r/gGh)

 

it was one person, and if you dont know enough about what has been reported to know that wasnt hte case you have no business out here trying to convict zimmerman.

501 he *was* in physical danger, whether he knew it or not, as soon as Zimmerman got out of the car with his gun.

First, I think it's pretty clear (by the fact that he was on the line with 911) that Zimmerman had no intent -- at least at first -- of causing bodily harm.  If he just wanted to off the punk kid, it would have made no sense to call the police.

Martin couldn't have known that some guy getting out of a truck (gun was concealed) was a danger, but if he did, he acted as if he weren't in danger.  I think it's pretty clear he didn't think this oversized Barney Fife wannabe was anything to worry about.

502 Florida court decisions state that a man being hit with fists is not considered 'grave bodily harm' and so Zimmerman had no right to shoot.

503 President Obama said I needed to do some soul searching. Actually, I need to search my property to make sure nothing was stolen from me last night. Thanks for the thoughts though champ.

504 528 - There is some uncertainty as to whether Martin was moving toward or away from Zimmerman at the time Zimmerman's 911 call ended. He says at one point "now he's coming toward me," something like that. Zimmerman's voice seems to indicate some alarm, and I don't necessarily think his alarm is for his own physical danger, but he did mention break-ins in the neighborhood. He may have been overstepping his duties as a neighborhood watch person, but I think it's clear that his decisions, regarding whether and how to follow Martin, stem from his belief that Martin was up to no good. And it would appear from his 911 call, his concerns were possibly wrong, but not unjustified.

505 how did the two of them end up in a physical altercation? That's not clear.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 24, 2012 03:04 PM (Gc/Qi)

that really is the missing piece. some say citizens arrest ? i still wonder if Trayvon would have accepted this as not a danger to himself . ? see

506 So, this is where I'm at.  In order for me to go beyond sadness that a young man is dead, and move into righteous anger over political injustice, I have to believe two things:

1.  That this shooting was racially motivated.
2.  That the investigating police and other law enforcement officers decided not to pursue charges against the shooter because of racial bias.

507 This tells me that not only was Zimmerman being attacked, but that he was attacked by the kid, physically. As I said yesterday, if the grand jury indicts, it is out of fear and not because of the facts. I bet they don't want race riots in the whole country. They would rather sacrifice one man and his potential innocence. Damn fucking Sharpton, Lee, the rest of them!

508 "how did the two of them end up in a physical altercation? That's not clear." Zimmerman went back to his car and the kid keel-hauled him. That's called an assault. Zimmerman followed him - that is not an offense.

509

it was one person, and if you dont know enough about what has been reported to know that wasnt hte case you have no business out here trying to convict zimmerman.

------------------

I have no ability to convict Zimmerman.  I'm not a jury or a judge.

What I can do is discuss the case. Which is what I'm doing.

A guy is dead because of Zimmerman.  A guy that was doing nothing wrong.  If the guy assaulted Zimmerman it was not because he (Martin) was out looking for trouble that night.

As I've said before, I'm a believer in self defense and gun rights.  A lot of the defenses I'm seeing of Zimmerman don't advance either cause.  That concerns me.

510 that really is the missing piece. some say citizens arrest ?

That would seem to fit Zimmerman's MO, but there seems to be no evidence of it.  You'd think if Zimmerman was going to do it, he would have proudly announced it to the 911 operator.

511

Posted by: The Moocher's Gay Hubby at March 24, 2012 03:14 PM (IhUxK)

 

in the immortal words of ben franklin, "its better that one innocent whitey get fried than to worry about the hundreds killed by gangbangers every year"

512 "I'm not advocating assaulting anyone. You're a fucking lunatic and you exposed yourself as such by suggesting I should come to your house so you can "show me the meaning of the castle doctrine"?
What, were you going to point it out to me on the web when I got there?"

You really need to learn to read better, I said "teach you," not show you. 

And yes you are advocating assaulting people.  You have claimed that just because someone is following you, you have the right to preemptively attack that person. 

Lastly, I thought since you were acting like such a tough guy on the internet that I was suppose to play along.

513 amish, ok, yes i see that could be.

514 @526-
Thanks for the answer.  Please consider posting more here. 

515
The whole fucking thing was based on Zimmerman's action. There is no other reason for it. Period. End of sentence. If champion nosey asshole hadn't gone looking for trouble, and just fucking left it at the first phone call like the fucking police asked, the whole fucking thing wouldn't have happened.

So you're saying Zimmerman should've just simply cowered as this guy suspiciously crept around the neighborhood.

Your whole train of thought has been seriously derailed.

516

You really need to learn to read better, I said "teach you," not show you.

-----------------

Why do I need to come to your house *in Texas* for that?  You can't just show me what it means here?  What did you have in mind to teach me?

 

517 A guy that was doing nothing wrong. If the guy assaulted Zimmerman it was not because he (Martin) was out looking for trouble that night.

Maybe, but once he physically assaulted Zimmerman (if that is, in fact, what happened) then the blame would shift sharply from Zimmerman who was zealously stalking an innocent kid to Martin who attacked a guy he perceived to be following him.

518

Lastly, I thought since you were acting like such a tough guy on the internet that I was suppose to play along.
---------

Why is why, after you called me buttercup, you began veiled threats of violence when I called you a pussy.

519 ahh.. people yelling at eachother while mixing in a nice helping of strawman and just making shit up.  Sounds like a crowd of Obama speech writers in here

520

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:15 PM (r/gGh)

 

what you've been doing is talking out of your ass and making it up as you go along. zimmerman was getting his ass kicked and feared for his safety. he was calling for help and no one was coming to help. but because he was following martin earlier martin is allowed to beat him to a pulp? the fact is he was more than justified in following martin that nite, the area had suffered a string of burglaries and he sees a young black man walking around in the rain. check the crime stats, its a no brainer to be suspicious of that.

521 546 - Yeah, there are missing pieces, and it's possible Zimmerman is to blame for the whole thing ending up as it did. I do think it's crucial though, that the police didn't charge Zimmerman. They did hand it all over to the prosecutors (or whatever, I'm not a lawyer), but it appears their recommendation was no arrest/prosecution, and we have to assume they know a lot more than we do at this point.

522 Think of Baby Jesus wearing a hoodie and Pontius Pilate with a Concealed Carry

523 I'm sorry, I thought he actually ended up dead. Which would be a good indicator he faced some danger that night.


That's irrelevant.


There's no indication whether the danger he faced was caused by Zimmerman himself, or if he brought himself in danger by attacking Zimmerman for who knows what reason.


I hope none of you people are ever on a jury. This is how OJ shit happens. Chewbacca was a wookie and Chewbacca was born on Endor but wookies don't live on Endor, ewoks do. Why was a wookie born on Endor? Think about it. It doesn't make any sense. What does this have to do with this case? It has nothing to do with this case. So why am I asking? Because it doesn't make any sense! This whole case doesn't make any sense! This legal system doesn't make any sense!

524

Maybe, but once he physically assaulted Zimmerman (if that is, in fact, what happened) then the blame would shift sharply from Zimmerman who was zealously stalking an innocent kid to Martin who attacked a guy he perceived to be following him.
--------

That is where we maybe diverge.

Zimmerman's defense is the castle doctrine.  That defense makes a LOT of sense when the danger comes to you.  I never want to be on trial for addressing a threat in my own home, or one that has sought me ought and cornered me.

But that's not what happened here.

Zimmerman wasn't "cornered" in the sense that most reasonable advocates of self-defense would agree.  He initiated the chain of events that led to this kid being shot.  I'm not saying that's first degree murder.  But I have a hard time believing, based on what I've read, that's just nothing.  And I worry that in suggesting that there's just nothing at all to see here with this, we're not taking the concept of self defense the wrong direction--in a way that will actually make people in reasonable apprehension of their own safety less safe.

525 "Why is why, after you called me buttercup, you began veiled threats of violence when I called you a pussy."

Again, sorry Francis, didn't mean to upset such a delicate snowflake.  Like I said, you started the whole tough guy act, so I played along.  Apparently your delicate sensibilities couldn't handle  it and for that I apologize. 

526 When they started circulating that child-age picture of the kid, I smelled a rat.  His family loved and nurtured him so much they never even called the cops for three days when he didn't come home.

Add Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Farrakhan, Obama, and Holder to the mix and the truth is going to be hard to find.

But we do know the cops were familiar with Zimmerman, and the subdivision had break-ins and the area had a lot of crime.  Based on their investigation at the scene, they made no arrest. 

The girlfriend supposedly heard the whole thing on the phone, but told NOBODY for a month?  Even after her boyfriend turned up dead - three days later?  She's lying.  It's not credible.  Funny how these things start to come out just as Al Sharpton arrives, isn't it?

527 So you're saying Zimmerman should've just simply cowered as this guy suspiciously crept around the neighborhood.

Well, he should have stayed put instead of thinking himself an arm of the police force.  He did his duty, he called the cops and then he lost the kid.  It was foolish to pursue him.  He may not have committed any criminally liable actions, but he doesn't get the same leeway that an officer does, with their training and added responsibility.

528 So you're saying Zimmerman should've just simply cowered as this guy suspiciously crept around the neighborhood. I would say that. Yes, he should 'cower' if that's what he's into, or sit quietly, or follow in his car. Or go home and watch the game. Or call 911, which he did. Anything but take your gun with you to go ask a guy why he's walking around not doing anything. P.S. if you were being facetious, and I missed it, I apologize. The whole internet is crazy and irony-impaired over this case.

529

zimmerman was getting his ass kicked and feared for his safety. he was calling for help and no one was coming to help. but because he was following martin earlier martin is allowed to beat him to a pulp? the fact is he was more than justified in following martin that nite, the area had suffered a string of burglaries and he sees a young black man walking around in the rain. check the crime stats, its a no brainer to be suspicious of that.

---------------

It's an unsafe neighborhood but Martin apparently had no reason whatsoever to fear the man following him.

530
I'm taking Zimmerman's defenders at their word. If they don't know the story, that's their problem.

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:11 PM (r/gGh)

You've proven repeatedly that you don't know squat about the facts of the story. Glass houses and such stuff.

531 Theodore is falling apart faster than the narrative.

532 Again, sorry Francis, didn't mean to upset such a delicate snowflake. Like I said, you started the whole tough guy act, so I played along. Apparently your delicate sensibilities couldn't handle it and for that I apologize.
------
So the non-internet tough guy who has invited me to his house *in Texas* to show me the meaning of the castle doctrine because I'm a buttercup that called him a pussy is back.

533 Zimmerman wasn't "cornered" in the sense that most reasonable advocates of self-defense would agree. He initiated the chain of events that led to this kid being shot.


Again, completely irrelevant.


You have a right to shoot people who are beating on your head.


You do not have the right to assault and beat anyone whom you suspect of following you. You can confront them, and ask them why the hell they are following you. You can't jump on them and start hitting them.


Who started the fight? All the facts you seem to think are relevant to this case are irrelevant to that question. Just wild speculation.

534 The sad thing is that Sharpton and entourage could probably give a rats ass about this kid. As someone else said above, he is just a prop.
May he rest in peace. 

535 It's an unsafe neighborhood but Martin apparently had no reason whatsoever to fear the man following him. Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:25 PM (r/gGh) Exactly! And, it's a dangerous neighborhood, with a dude who is up to no good, and you leave the safety of your car?!

536

You've proven repeatedly that you don't know squat about the facts of the story. Glass houses and such stuff.

-----------

What have I posted, factually, that's wrong?

If I'm answering a post that says there's an alley involved, I'm assuming there's an alley involved. 

 

537 If I walk up to a person and say "those pants look terrible" and they whip out a gun and shoot me, I initiated the chain of events that led to someone getting killed.


Don't make it my fault.

538

Again, completely irrelevant.

--------------

That is NOT completely irrelevant to the concept of self defense or standing your ground.  Sorry, but you're just wrong.  And I'd suspect if the shoe was on the other foot, you'd agree. I'm not talking about race here, either.  I'm talking about you being provoked. 

539 Zimmerman wasn't "cornered" in the sense that most reasonable advocates of self-defense would agree. He initiated the chain of events that led to this kid being shot.

Bullshit.  He was walking around the neighborhood.  He was even following someone.  That's it.  Sorry, you're allowed to do that.  It isn't a crime to walk around.  It may be creepy and the police would have been justified in stopping Zimmerman and even taking him in for questioning, but they can't charge him with following somebody, based on what we know.

This isn't a butterfly's wings sort of deal.  If Martin came around and assaulted Zimmerman, anything that Zimmerman did (as long as he didn't confront Martin directly) is not even worth considering.

540

In reality, I don't give a shit.

There are far more important things to worry about and this sounds like MSM-driven horseshit..

And that is the entire point.

541
It's an unsafe neighborhood but Martin apparently had no reason whatsoever to fear the man following him.

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:25 PM (r/gGh)

FBI Uniform Crime Statistics indicate that Martin would've had reasonably feared the person who was following him if that person was black.

542 "So the non-internet tough guy who has invited me to his house *in Texas* to show me the meaning of the castle doctrine because I'm a buttercup that called him a pussy is back."

Now see, there you go all bi-polar.  You go getting all Rambo on the internet, but when I play along you get all shrieking violet.  Which is it Mary, I can't keep up.

543 what i would like to have seen was a wait and see, with the prosecuters coming out with more info.
instead we have farrakan threatening  to kill 'white' people . sharpton setting others up to do rioting for Him and Jackson.
the president himself being an idiot.
what a disfunctional nation.

544 The girlfriend supposedly heard the whole thing on the phone, but told NOBODY for a month? Even after her boyfriend turned up dead - three days later?

Is that true?  Not telling the media is not the same as not telling police.  But if she's the only source for the "I'm scared" thing, that might explain why this tough guy flashing gang signs on his FB pic was calling his GF about being scared.

545

If I walk up to a person and say "those pants look terrible" and they whip out a gun and shoot me, I initiated the chain of events that led to someone getting killed.


Don't make it my fault.
-------------------

Is that remotely what happened here?

 

Let's go back:

 

It's an unsafe neighborhood. From Zimmerman's perspective.

Zimmerman is on edge.  It's dangerous enough that he's patrolling the streets with a gun.  Which you don't do unless you think you're going to need it.

But when Martin is being followed by Zimmerman, from his perspective all of a sudden it turns into Mister Rodger's neighborhood, with well lit, well populated street corners and places to hide and cops that will arrive the second you call.

So whereas Zimmerman was reasonable in fearing Martin, Martin had no reason at all to feel a threat from the man that ultimately shot and killed him that night.

546 564 - The scene played out, finally, in the back of people's houses. Zimmerman was concerned about break-ins, and had every reason to believe Martin had no business going behind those houses, Zimmerman's neighbor's houses. Again, maybe overzealous, but he thought he was doing the right thing, going into an area where a stranger was, apparently with the intent of thwarting a crime.

547

FBI Uniform Crime Statistics indicate that Martin would've had reasonably feared the person who was following him if that person was black.

---------------

You know, if we're going to call out Sharpton and Obama, etc. for making this a race thing...

548 And, it's a dangerous neighborhood, with a dude who is up to no good, and you leave the safety of your car?!

Why not.  He had a gun, it's not irrational to do so.

549 This is from the city of Sanford's website in response to questions....


If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in this investigation?


Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do
that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.



Site link:  http://tinyurl.com/6o5lnrw


Click on 'read more' to get the question and answer pdf.

550 what happens if another crown heights or rodney king occur. are we going to discuss who is liable?

551 That is NOT completely irrelevant to the concept of self defense or standing your ground. Sorry, but you're just wrong.


No, I'm not. Sorry but I'm not.


If you'd care to discuss that, see my example, present your own logic. Or just assert that you are right forcefully and I will do the same.


Sorry, but you're all wrong. You lose. Game over. Internet privileges revoked.

552 I told you guys, it's the Jena 6 all over again.

553

The scene played out, finally, in the back of people's houses.

-----------

Alley, back of people's houses.  Here it is again.  Whichever it was...where was it?  If people are going to call me out for answering people's facts as they have addressed them, then can we get a link that identifies how far Martin's dead body was from the car?

 

In any event, I don't see how you could defend Zimmerman or claim there's nothign to see here until you know that fact.  Because the further Martin was from Zimmerman's car, the less unreasonable he looks in trying to defend himself.

554 Brandishing a gun and speaking threateningly would achieve that without touching anyone Posted by: jenny tries too hard at March 24, 2012 02:02 PM (snRY5) Totally making shit up, again. From the Florida Department of Agriculture website re concealed carry permits: "Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early."

555 what i hope we can presume from zimmermans acts is he wasn't out to kill someone  he would not have called the police to ask for assistance?
zimmerman had already called the police with nothing occuring in other cases where he was on duty.
why was this different, what happened in that time of dead air?

556

Bullshit. He was walking around the neighborhood. He was even following someone. That's it. Sorry, you're allowed to do that. It isn't a crime to walk around. It may be creepy and the police would have been justified in stopping Zimmerman and even taking him in for questioning, but they can't charge him with following somebody, based on what we know.
---------

It's not bullshit to say he initiated the chain of events that led to Martin being killed.  If Zimmerman doesn't get out of his car that night is any crime committed by Martin?  Does Martin attack him?  I think the answer is probably no and no.

 

I was merely speaking to the chain of events there and Zimmerman initiated them.

 

As for your second point, when you follow someone at night and place them in fear for their lives I think that does reasonably limit the extent to which you can use the gun you're carrying to defend yourself.

557 i thought it occured in fron of the clubhouse?

558 The facts won't matter.  The verdict is already in.

559 I didn't read through every response on this thread yet, but maybe Zimmerman was on his back because Martin was defending himself and Martin was winning?  Not protecting Martin at ALL.  Jus' Sayin.'

560 Both of these fuckers are Teh Stoopid. Zimmerman is stupid for following and confronting Martin. A concealed carry permit doesn't make you a cop. He should have called the cops and left it at that unless somebody was in immediate physical danger. Martin is stupid for getting in a fight with an armed man. The gene pool is definitely better off without him.

561 Site link: http://tinyurl.com/6o5lnrw
Click on 'read more' to get the question and answer pdf.
Posted by: Tami at March 24, 2012 03:33 PM (X6akg)


Thank you for that link.  I think I will go to the source and find the info I need there.  It might cut down severely on the pointless speculation.  Thanks again!

562 589 - Again, I will assert I believe you have some agenda here, other than seeing justice served, and I have no intention of engaging you on this. Find somebody else.

563 There was no "alley" - it was sidewalks around the clubhouse area where a vehicle could not go.  Martin didn't live in that neighborhood, he is walking around in the rain and goes into that area.  Of course the Neighborhood Watch guy wants to keep eyes on him until the cops come.  But he loses him and is going back to his vehicle when the altercation occurs.

The idea that Martin's "fear" of being followed justifies him attacking Zimmerman is just false.  This is NOT the law in any state, territory, or possession of the United States. 

By the way, a guy casing houses for later burglaries might fear the guy following him even more than some wandering kid, might he not?

Don't look at the doe-eyed child picture, check out the 6'2", 180 # football playing gangsta picture on Facebook at http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/.

564

 ZimmermanÂ’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.
------

So, where was the altercation?  That's a big fact.  Martin doesn't know Zimmerman has called off the chase.

 

565 It's not bullshit to say he initiated the chain of events that led to Martin being killed.

You don't know that, Theodore, and that is the whole point of this post.  By your reasoning, neighborhoods should completely avoid neighborhood watches.

566
You know, if we're going to call out Sharpton and Obama, etc. for making this a race thing...

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:32 PM (r/gGh)

About 90% of black killings are black on black. Those are the ugly but true statistics.

Burying your head in the sand doesn't change the facts.

567 "So you're saying Zimmerman should've just simply cowered as this guy suspiciously crept around the neighborhood.

Your whole train of thought has been seriously derailed.

Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at March 24, 2012 03:18 PM (7+pP9) "

 

Your not very bright are you, why should anyone cower when they are packing heat and in an SUV.  They are community watch, there motto is to observe and report.  That's it, he witnessed no crime being committed, but made conclusions the kids was acting suspicious or on drugs.  That is all fact and he was supposed to wait for the police to take care of the situation.

There are plenty of people who intiate situations and get their asses kicked without pulling a gun.  Happens every weekend down at Riverfront on Las Olas.  So once again 250lb man armed with gun in SUV against 6'3 140lb young man with skittles, ice tea and cellphone.  I fogot he had a hoodie, that makes it all even.

568 Theodore, you are a hack. Did someone hire you to argue the damn case? Why the jihad to 'frame' the 'narrative' with such loaded speculation?


Because you are a moral hero crusading against evil bastards on the internet who all secretly want to run around shooting black kids but won't admit it? Is it a 'civil rights' thing?


You drag out strawmen about the perceived "safety" of the neighborhood - how do you know? Have you been there? Because you read it somewhere? On the internets maybe? I read that you already lost this argument and were declared wrong. On the internets. Pretty sure I read that somewhere above.


You're talking about the "perspective" of both men and what they experienced, and speculating their motives . Because, you say, it is something you read on the internet, according to some dude who disagreed with you. Anonymous internet commenter who disagreed with you "even" said it? Oh well my, let me update the fuckin wikipedia page with this newly sourced information.


Someone should call the state attorney general and tell them we have new information which might be relevant to the case.

569

The idea that Martin's "fear" of being followed justifies him attacking Zimmerman is just false. This is NOT the law in any state, territory, or possession of the United States.

-------------

Actually, it is, if the chase meets the definition of an assault.

If you're assaulted, you can defend yourself.

 

570 590 - Florida Department of Agriculture? Really? That's who sets and enforces gun laws in the state of Florida? I don't know, I'm not a politician, but something seems screwy to me about that. Now if you're flinging apple seeds at somebody.....

571

You don't know that, Theodore, and that is the whole point of this post. By your reasoning, neighborhoods should completely avoid neighborhood watches.
------

If Zimmerman stays in his car, does Martin end up dead?  If you can't answer that with a yes, then I'm right.

572 If Obama had a son it would look like Urkel.

573 ...You have a right to shoot people who are beating on your head... Posted by: entropy at March 24, 2012 03:26 PM (Ci0JG) No you don't, you have to be in fear of imminent loss of life or limb. Imminent has a very clear legal meaning, and would be for a judge or jury to decide. Which is why prosecutors and Sanford PD should have brought the case

574 I am just disappointed that this issue has divided the moron horde into two camps of false dichotomy

575 Stalking laws in Florida: (2) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. (3) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person, and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person's child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent, commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

576

You drag out strawmen about the perceived "safety" of the neighborhood - how do you know? Have you been there? Because you read it somewhere? On the internets maybe? I read that you already lost this argument and were declared wrong. On the internets. Pretty sure I read that somewhere above.

-----------

Well, Zimmerman's neighbor talked about a perfect storm.  People have defended the fact that Zimmerman is driving around with a gun at night, patrolling, even though he's not a police officer or an official member of the neighborhood watch.  You don't do that in an safe neighborhood.

Again, I'm arguing the case based on what is being argued by Zimmerman's defenders here.  And the safety of the neighborhood has been raised by them.

577 What was Zimmerman doing back in that alley? making sure everyone put their garbage out?

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 02:47 PM (r/gGh)

Seriously, have you bothered to take a look (using google or bing maps) at the subdivision in question? Have you.

578 Theodore - why in your opinion did the police decide not to charge Zimmerman?

579
SZimmermanÂ’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.
------
So, where was the altercation? That's a big fact. Martin doesn't know Zimmerman has called off the chase.

Since Zimmerman lost track of Martin, there is only one person who could've initiated the violence, dummy.

580 I give up: I've come to terms with the fact that someone's wrong on the internet.

581 Why does no one get its neighborhood WATCH, not neighborhood batman? Watch and report that's the point, to prevent these very cases from occurring

582 111We did NOT send him any telegrams!
Posted by: IMperial German Embassy  This means war!

 

 

583

Seriously, have you bothered to take a look (using google or bing maps) at the subdivision in question? Have you.
----------

You must have missed the several times I pointed out that in using that term, I was addressing a poster above who, in defending Zimmerman, claimed that's what happened.  Don't blame me because I'm arguing someone else based on their own facts.

584 And just to shit on rdbrewer's initial post, no where in that article does it say Zimmerman was initially provoked, we all knew yesterday Trayvon was winning the fight when he got shot and was on top of Zimmerman.

585 If Zimmerman stays in his car, does Martin end up dead? If you can't answer that with a yes, then I'm right.

You guys, "Theodore" is a racial shit-stirrer.  I encourage you to ignore the troll.

586

Since Zimmerman lost track of Martin, there is only one person who could've initiated the violence, dummy.

---------

That's just not true at all.  Unless you believe that Martin ends up dead whether Zimmerman gets out of his car to look for him or not.

587

 

 

We have a president who was a Community Agitator* and worked as a Civil Rights attorney. ...He also taught Critical Race Theory on a college level.

 

This is the main reason why this story is in play right now. ....He needs to start a race war, any way that he can, in order to distract people from his horrible record in office.

 

*Yeah. He was an Agitator...not an Organizer. He was 'the guy' who the organizers brought in to 'fire up a crowd of recruits'....he has a talent for it. A talent that the organizers noticed and put to good use.

588

There was nothing in this post that wasnÂ’t fully known two days ago.

 

Mama winger,   concerning the “alley”, you donÂ’t need to take anyoneÂ’s word for it.  Google the police report and it clearly states where the altercation took place.  They list two address that are easily found on Google Maps.  Click on the satellite view button and it will show you the buildings and the narrow strip of grass between the blocks of condos.  This is what people are referring to as “alleys”.

 

Once you look at it, itÂ’s pretty clear how Zimmerman couldnÂ’t follow Trayvon in his car and how when Trayvon went in between the buildings, it would be easy for Zimmerman to lose him.

 

What I would like to know is why the media, who has known all this for days, hasnÂ’t reported any of it.

589 Since it is apparently an issue, I used the word alley to describe where the incident took place because that is the way it was described in one of the first articles I read about the incident when it happened. I looked at the map at the link up above and I think what was meant by alley was the strip of grass behind the condos that serves as a backyard. I don't know if it took place on one of the lanes where the rear of the condos face each other or if it was one of the strips against the wall.

The point still stands that Zimmerman claims he had lost sight of Martin in the backyards (or alley or whatever) and was returning to his vehicle when he was attacked. If Zimmerman is telling the truth there was no chase (in the sense of running after someone), there was no verbal confrontation, no pushing, no shoving, and no weapon brandishing.

Does anyone one have any evidence, physical or eyewitness, that Zimmerman is lying? If not, why are you assuming he is?

590 There are plenty of people who intiate situations and get their asses kicked without pulling a gun. Happens every weekend down at Riverfront on Las Olas. So once again 250lb man armed with gun in SUV against 6'3 140lb young man with skittles, ice tea and cellphone. I fogot he had a hoodie, that makes it all even.


You are playing games with "initiate" just like Theodore. I do as a point of fact, by dictionary definition, "initiate" the situation that leads to my getting shot, if someone shoots me for saying 'Hi!' to them.


I did in fact start it then, by saying "Hi!" before they had done anything.


You have the right to shoot people who are beating on your head.


You do not have the right to beat the head of someone because they followed you in public.


Who initiated the use of force? What was the situation at the moment force was initiated?


Did this Martin get away from the guy and double back and sneak up on the dude who was following him and attack him without question, for having followed him around on a public street? Maybe he planned to question his follower after he "broke" him by beating the shit out of him Keifer Sutherland style? So this neighborhood watch (could have been an undercover cop) gets beaten on the floor screaming "Help!" and the guy on top is raining down blows, he pulls out his gun and shoots.


Or did this Zimmerman pull out a gun when he was first approached, in response to him asking "Hey man why you following me?" while looking at him in a terrifying and provocatively dark-skinned manner, so Martin in fear jumped on the mysterious gun-pulling guy to defend himself, and as they fell to the ground he got shot?


Well? What happened? Cite sources.


Don't fucking yap about how the neighborhood is "safe" or not, or if guns are racist or not, or if wookies are born on endor or not.

591 Hopefully something good will come of all this. Like maybe, white people quit being so uptight about protecting their property and lives. Obviously, that's not fair to black people who may or may not have had ancestors who were slaves or professional athletes or comedians. By the way, we have young black guys in baggy pants in our Presbyterian services every Sunday morning. They are students at the junior college next door. Thus far have not had to shoot nary a one. Doubt they are Trayvons, though.

592 If Zimmerman stays in his car, does Martin end up dead? If you can't answer that with a yes, then I'm right.


Impecable logic, Zimmerman should sit in his car, in his driveway, in his gated sub-division, in its privately owned streets and sidewalks - the fact that Zimmerman set foot on the ground he owns puts him at fault for Martin's death.

Nevermind that Martin was not a resident and had no legal right to be there...

593 621 You guys, "Theodore" is a racial shit-stirrer. I encourage you to ignore the troll. Posted by: rdbrewer at March 24, 2012 03:50 PM (Iyg03) how so? (it raining been reading this all day so i could have missed it but) because he disagrees with your abasement of the facts as you know them/media has reported them/armchair jury that we all are? i'm sorry you posted and didn't get agreement from every single person on here you think they're trolling? what is this reddit?

594 "If Zimmerman stays in his car, does Martin end up dead? If you can't answer that with a yes, then I'm right.

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:43 PM (r/gGh) "

 

It's okay Theodore, people are on here jacking up the kids weight 140lbs at 6'3 or not stating it at all.  Talking about how he was a football player and was flashing gang signs.  They are reaching and it comes across in such a pathetic manner.  They don't care that the kid wasn't doing anything and I am sure if it happened to someone in their family they would feel the same way as they do now.

595

You guys, "Theodore" is a racial shit-stirrer. I encourage you to ignore the troll.
--------

No, here's where I'm coming from.

There are fistfights where people get their asses kicked literally every night of the week.

They are almost always started by something stupid.

It is a perversion of the concept of self defense (and one that will ultimately weaken it) to suggest that because you're getting your ass kicked you can shoot someone.  Especially when, you're out with a gun.  Following people.

I approach this as a guy that believes strongly in being left alone and, where I'm not, allowing me to defend myself.

You want self defense laws to protect reasonable self-defense.  Not just to give someone that is out, away from home, intentionally looking for trouble, to ultimately kill someone when they find it.

I'm not suggesting Zimmerman was out looking to provoke innocent people.  But the man isn't a cop. No one deputized him to do this.  He wasn't doing his job.  Even if he was looking for trouble in the sense that he was looking for troublemakers, he was looking for trouble.  And when he found it in the form of a kid that appears by everything to have been innocent of any crime, and got out of his car and followed him, at that point, I begin to grow fearful of a law that is destined to protect him when that person--innocent of any crime when the chase begain--ends up dead later.

That's pretty much it.

596 *assessment, damn spell check

597 Carolina, if Zimmerman had been eating Cheetos and whacking off none of this would have happened either.  Irrelevant?  Of course.  But not if you have no concept of causation... or want to stir shit. Like you.

598

Nevermind that Martin was not a resident and had no legal right to be there...
----

I missed this.  Martin was breaking the law by being there?

599
Why does no one get its neighborhood WATCH, not neighborhood batman? Watch and report that's the point, to prevent these very cases from occurring

Posted by: CarolinaPunk at March 24, 2012 03:47 PM (tUgSx)

That's exactly what Zimmerman mostly did. There were people posting last night that Zimmerman actually called the police *gasp* an average of once every three months during a 10 year period. As if that was outrageous.

I'll tell you this -- if some gang banger starts busting caps at you 'cause he's tired of seeing you around you need something better than your dick in your hand. Bullets fly faster than any police car can travel.

600 If you are sitting on someones chest haven't you taken away thier ability to flee? Doesn't that change the legal aspect?

601 Some people on both sides, many of you, are literally trying to argue what happened.


You can argue about it, whether the tiny amount of shit you DO KNOW suggests PROBABLY happened, but none of that changes what actually happened. Even if you win the argument, shit still did or did not happen as it happened and fuck your stupid Clue logic, in the kitchen, with the candlestick.


What's not known is not known. Admitting what things are not known do not mean you 'lose the argument' and someone goes to jail. It means you aren't angrily retarded.

602
No, here's where I'm coming from.
...

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:58 PM (r/gGh)

Bullshit. You're an Axelrod astroturfer and everybody can see it.

603 This happened more than a month ago and the reports at the time contradict every aspect of the news stories that emerged this week. His mother claimed he was shot while sitting on the porch.
All lies.

604 "Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman"  http://tinyurl.com/849ks4y

Just noticed this in red on drudge.  Sorry if it has been posted already.

605

I did in fact start it then, by saying "Hi!" before they had done anything.

----------

We can use a reasonable chain of causation.

First, Martin doesn't end up dead if Zimmerman just stays home. 

I think it's probably unreasonable to start the chain there.

Second, Martin doesn't end up dead if Zimmerman just stays put in his car.

What is unreasonable about at least starting the chain here, though? The cops had been called.  If we are to presume that Martin could have called the cops and waited, then why didn't Zimmerman.

606 I begin to grow fearful of a law that is destined to protect him when that person--innocent of any crime when the chase begain--ends up dead later.


So I walk up to someone and I say "Hi! How it's going? Hey, would you like some gum?" and that person freaks out as I reach into my pocket, they pull their gun, and they shoot me, because I was harrassing them.


Self defense?


Who initiated the confrontation, from their perspective?


You cannot assault people for following you on a public street. Do you support assaulting people for following other people in public?? Assaulting reporters and private investigators?


Assault is assault, whether in a box or with a fox. A person can survive a gunshot and die of punches.


Who started assaulting whom, and why? Who assaulted first?

607 634
Nevermind that Martin was not a resident and had no legal right to be there...
----
I missed this. Martin was breaking the law by being there? Posted by: Theodore


Possibly, More to the point - there is a difference between rights and privileges.

Guests of the residents and owners may (or may not, whatever the rules are for the HOA) have access privileges to common areas.

The residents and owners have the right to be on their property (meaning their yards and common areas).

608 Theodore - again, I ask,  if all you say is true, in your opinion why did the police not file charges against Zimmerman?

609 "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, helpÂ…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera."  http://tinyurl.com/849ks4y

610
I missed this. Martin was breaking the law by being there?

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:59 PM (r/gGh)

If it was a gated community, yes. But whether it's a gated community currently unclear.

611 ok i'm listening to the call
are you following him"
yes
we don't need you to do that, while it's not quite an order. it does indicate they are saying you shouldn't

612

Bullshit. You're an Axelrod astroturfer and everybody can see it.

--------------------------

Which would be weird.  Vote for Bush, voted for Bush again.  Voted for Dole.  Then Bush.  Then Bush again.  Then McCain plus a sizable donation.  Won't vote GOP this time, but I won't be voting for Obama either.

There's not a bone in my body sympathetic to this from Obama's point of view.

 

What I loathe about this story is that liberals that haven't given a damn about anyone killed by fast and furious guns now have taken a keen interest in gun violence.

I loathe that Sharpton and Jackson and Farrakahn will turn this into a race war thing because they believe it will excite a black voting block that doesn't have much reason to be excited about Obama.

And I loathe that, as a strong supporter of self defense and the second amendment, the concept is being twisted here.

I cannot more strongly convey this to you than I have already--when I'm out minding my own business I want to be left the fuck alone.  That is where I'm coming from.

613 We can use a reasonable chain of causation.


We can be ridiculously hacktarded about how we choose our words in order to 'frame' arguments in tautologically true statements.


How does the fact a guy had skittles in his pocket relevant to anything? Use the "search" feature on your browser Theodore and you will find yourself making hay out of this. Why? Has no person ever robbed a bank or committed murder with candy in their pocket? Do criminals not like sweets?


How the hell is that a "reasonable chain of causation"?


You may declare it reasonable, because what constitutes reasonable is itself subjective. Doesn't mean it happened. Doesn't prove shit. You're making up theories and then giving people sermons about them. Have you disposed the witnesses? Did you investigate the crime scene? Did you read the crime report?


Stop acting as if "stuff other commentors said in internet posts" is a valid source.

614

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 03:46 PM (r/gGh)

 

sometimes waht makes a neighborhood safe is in fact people driving around patrolling it. and by the way, zimmerman wasnt patrolling, he was running an errand. find out what happened and then come bakc you idiot.

615

Key is that following, or even chasing someone is NOT against the law.

 

Its not until an assault happened, and who started it, that any of this becomes a legal matter.

 

Carrying a gun legaly? OK... following someone? risky but legal... talking to someone? Legal... even up to chasing someone? Legal right up until you touch them.  Heck, you can even call them rude names...

 

Its who touches who first... and if the Black kid did instigate the assault?  Reason really does not matter UNLESS the gun was pulled first...

 

But that would not follow the meme the MSM wants so Obama can play the Race card this coming election...

616

Theodore - again, I ask, if all you say is true, in your opinion why did the police not file charges against Zimmerman?

-------------------

Could be a few reasons.

I've had more than my fair share of run-ins with lazy cops.  I have no specific reason to believe that's what's going on here, other than the fact that apparently this gated community has a lot of break-ins and Zimmerman's neighbor thinks this was the result of that.  That suggests to me we have an overburdened police department, or one that has cops that simply don't do their jobs.

If you believe the cops are capable you don't get into your truck at night and drive around looking for criminals with your gun.

617 damn it takes 10 minutes per download re 9-11 the  calls . hate my computer.

618 633 Posted by: rdbrewer at March 24, 2012 03:59 PM (Iyg03) Apparently stirring shit to you simply means disagreeing. It is with in reason to be on either side of this incident (not the sharpton side but the Zimmerman was in the wrong side) It is not a black and white issue (lol pun unintended) and not with a clear side to choose by nature of our conservatism. So unless as you charged Theodore has some obvious case of racist shit stirring quote it and don't get mad bro. Again, you are acting like the left in that case. 635 Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at March 24, 2012 03:59 PM (7+pP9) *Mostly* is the key word and where I find Zimmerman at fault, he gets no immunity cause he *mostly* followed procedure. Much like im sure Occupy is *mostly* rape free

619 "But not if you have no concept of causation... or want to stir shit. Like you.

Posted by: rdbrewer at March 24, 2012 03:59 PM (Iyg03) "

 

Is that why you changed the title of the post, are you a shit stirer when the title said Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.  The witness testified he just saw Trayvon winning the fight.  I have a concept of causation, your walking home minding your own fucking business with your skittles and ice tea.  You end getting shot dead because some armed douse who had already called the police got out of the safety of his vehicle.  Instead of waiting for the police to arrive.

 

By the way, you have right to be on the general public are of a gated community if your a guest unless you have been asked to leave by your host, management or the police.  There are more and more idiots making up their own facts.

620 Well, thanks for the answer.  I think it's a completely silly one, but at least you responded.

621 If it was a gated community, yes. But whether it's a gated community currently unclear. Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid


Gated community - privately owned (by the residents) roads and sidewalks.

Unannounced 'guests' who hop the fence could be charged with criminal trespass.

622 636 If you are sitting on someones chest haven't you taken away thier ability to flee? Doesn't that change the legal aspect? Posted by: Hydrocarbon Liberation Fron

Not if they were looking at ya.

Looking at a gang-banger wanna-be justifiably puts them if fear for their life.
So it is only understandable that their only recourse is to jump their ass soon as they come within reach (see! they where stalking) and beat the shiite out of 'em.

623

Posted by: willow at March 24, 2012 04:09 PM (TomZ9)

remember a couple of months back when the young mom in OK shot and killed the guy trying to break into her house. check what great advice the dispatcher gave her when she asked about defending herself. dispatchers are glorified phone operators and their instructions arent worth spit. the city manager of sanford has said as much

http://tinyurl.com/7nmxqo4

624 Theodore, if I see you jogging around and I follow you in my car to watch where you're going, is this a justified reason for you to assault me?


Should I expect to be shot dead for following you on the public street?

625 "Sonner's comments came as the teen's father, Tracy Martin, spoke about learning that his son had been killed. He told People magazine that his son had not returned home that night but that he believed Trayvon was safe and in the care of his adult nephew. The next morning, after several unreturned phone calls, the father called the sheriff's office."  http://tinyurl.com/7hloyqa

626

Well, thanks for the answer. I think it's a completely silly one, but at least you responded.
------------

What is your experience with cops?  That they do their jobs well, always?

 

This neighborhood has crime because they're not.

 

Note I'm not suggesting the racial reason I think you were hoping I'd give.

 

627 As a self defense issue. I don't want that issue twisted around.


If I'm following you, would you shoot me, would you claim self defense because I followed you down the road?

628 You end getting shot dead because some armed douse who had already called the police got out of the safety of his vehicle. Instead of waiting for the police to arrive.





You have to make some big jumps between the spaces of your argument there.

629 What if I have skittles in my pocket Theodore?


I'm following you, and I have skittles in my pocket. Now what should the law say about you shooting me?

630

Posted by: Justus Brothas at March 24, 2012 04:14 PM (tvJhm)

 

Sorry, but your 'causation works both ways.  It is NOT illegal to follow someone in public... as the Supremes have said you do not have a reasonable expectation of Privacy, on public streets.

 

Getting out of your CAR is now the cause of the whole thing???

 

Sorry, jumped the shark there...

631

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:13 PM (r/gGh)

 

wow, your life experiences are amazing!! you know what its like to be followed and then robbed, you have may run ins w/ lazy cops which you believe to be the case here even though you have shown yourself to have no fucking clue what happened or where it happened. at least you gave up on the alley thing.

632 We used to get a better class of mobys.

633

Theodore, if I see you jogging around and I follow you in my car to watch where you're going, is this a justified reason for you to assault me?


Should I expect to be shot dead for following you on the public street?
-----------

You won't be shot dead by me...because I don't carry a gun in my neighborhood.  Unless you pull one on me and I get it away from you.  In which case, yes, I might shoot you dead.

Now, if I sense you're following me and you keep following me and I even break off the path and you keep following me after I've done so, then there's a strong possibility you and I are going to have an event.  And it's not going to be me waiting for you to attack me.  I've been there, done that.  Not happening again.

634

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:13 PM (r/gGh)

 

cops dont prevent crime, they show up after the fact.

635 What is your experience with cops? That they do their jobs well, always? This neighborhood has crime because they're not.
Note I'm not suggesting the racial reason I think you were hoping I'd give. Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:17 PM


1.  Limited.  I've not been involved in violent crime.  My son in law's brother is up for police chief in his town, and I've always found him to be more than competent.  Anecdotal evidence, but nevertheless.

2.  You are equating crime prevention with the ability to file charges when a crime has been committed.  Two separate things.

3.  What racial reason was I hoping you would give?

636

wow, your life experiences are amazing!! you know what its like to be followed and then robbed, you have may run ins w/ lazy cops which you believe to be the case here even though you have shown yourself to have no fucking clue what happened or where it happened. at least you gave up on the alley thing.

-------------------

So I'm unusual because I've been crime victim? 

And because I've run into a lazy cop?

 Let's see, followed at night back to my car after I had to park on a surface lot several blocks into a bad area of a downtown area.  Sensed I was being followed after several turns, unarmed, ultimately was robbed of my laptop.

 

Also have had my car broken into, rear ended in a hit and run.  Found the cops in both cases to be utterly unresponsive when, very late after I called them, they arrived.

 

637 Is that why you changed the title of the post, are you a shit stirer when the title said Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.



Should re-fix that title,

"Trayvon was ATTACKING Zimmerman"

Attacked is past tense, witness clearly indicating that the attack was ongoing, therefore "ATTACKING". Witness also indicated that Martin was on Zimmerman's chest, preventing escape. All Zimmermen could do is hope Martin got bored with beating his face and took a skittles break, or getting knocked unconscious/killed, or putting a slug up Martin's chin through the top of his head.

Thanks for pointing that out Justus Brothas.

638 Theodore you hack, answer the question.


If you DID have a gun, and you DID shoot me for following you, would it be self defense?


I can ask you "What if I shoot you for following me?" instead, since you don't have a gun, but you'll probably just say "I wouldn't follow you".


So,... what if Charlie Sheen is following me, so I shoot Charlie Sheen. Can I claim, under your understanding of the law, it was a justified homocide, because I was defending myself from being followed in public?

639

3. What racial reason was I hoping you would give?
----------------

The same reason Zimmerman's defenders seem to think I'm here--that the cops were protecting him because he's "white".  Sorry, I'm not going there.  Doesn't interest me as much as the self-defense angle.

640 remember a couple of months back when the young mom in OK shot and killed the guy trying to break into her house. check what great advice the dispatcher gave her when she asked about defending herself. dispatchers are glorified phone operators and their instructions arent worth spit.

Posted by: chas at March 24, 2012 04:16 PM (xAq1C)

I hadn't heard of the Ok mom case. but i am readign and trying to listen to All the calsl it will take me an hour or so.

i've only heard the zimmerman  911 call from the file, i have several more.

otherwise i'd only heard what the news hasd aired.

641  And it's not going to be me waiting for you to attack me. I've been there, done that. Not happening again.

 

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:19 PM (r/gGh)

 

And you will go to Jail for Assault if you take the first swing...  Its just the way the system works.

 

20 Years ago, I caught a guy IN my car stealing my stereo... during broad daylight in San Diego near the Shipyards.. He ran, I put him down and subdued him... and the Police advised me NOT to press charges, because defense of property is not valid reason for assault in Calif... and I would have spent more time in Jail than he would have...

642

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:22 PM (r/gGh)

 

 

as usual you keep talking and exposing your stupidity. you fault zimmerman for "patrolling" the streets when thats the cops job and now you are talking about how incompetent cops are. your just making it up as you go along.

643

Theodore you hack, answer the question.


If you DID have a gun, and you DID shoot me for following you, would it be self defense?

--------------------

How the hell can I answer that question?  I don't carry a gun when I go for errands.  Or when I'm out running.

You're asking me to answer a question as to what I would do after we assume something I'd never do.  What kind of bullshit is that?

644

And you will go to Jail for Assault if you take the first swing... Its just the way the system works.

20 Years ago, I caught a guy IN my car stealing my stereo... during broad daylight in San Diego near the Shipyards.. He ran, I put him down and subdued him... and the Police advised me NOT to press charges, because defense of property is not valid reason for assault in Calif... and I would have spent more time in Jail than he would have...

----------------

And see, I think that's bullshit.  Again, I'm the proponent of self defense.  I was ultimately more than just robbed away, it was a physical assault.  I'm going to defend myself against that from now on.

645 Another dead hood rat. I'm saddened.

646
*Mostly* is the key word and where I find Zimmerman at fault, he gets no immunity cause he *mostly* followed procedure. Much like im sure Occupy is *mostly* rape free

Posted by: CarolinaPunk at March 24, 2012 04:14 PM (tUgSx)

Hey 'tard:

I said *mostly* because to my knowledge this is the only time he did anything that could be misconstrued otherwise.

647 there's a strong possibility you and I are going to have an event. And it's not going to be me waiting for you to attack me. I've been there, done that. Not happening again.


Ah, there we have it.


You think you're allowed to kill people for following you.


Well... I hope you don't have to try that one on the cops. You can argue with them about how they are twisting the meaning of the law, but I don't forsee much success.


But you say you would only try that if they followed you after you "break off the path". What is the path? Did Martin "break off the path"? Did Zimmerman follow Martin "off the path"? Or did Martin stay on the path? Why did Martin go back on the path?


Do you have pictures of the path? It might be helpful to discuss this, you could show us all where they were standing from like a birds-eye view.

648

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:26 PM (r/gGh)

 

which is what zimmerman did when he was getting his ass kicked. why do you have a problem w/ that?

649 39 Spike Lee re-tweeted what he thought was Zimmermann's address yesterday. (Asshole.)

Thankfully, it wasn't the correct address. Posted by: ktgreat at March 24, 2012 12:43 PM

Normally what Spike Lee did would be a felony

But he's shielded by a substance even more impervious than Blackdemocratium

Blackcelebritydemocratium

650

You think you're allowed to kill people for following you.
------------

No, but I am going to confront them and defend myself.  And I'm not going to wait on someone that intends to do me harm for them to actually harm me.

See, you've put a gun in my hands with in your little fantasy and have me killing this person.

That's not what I'm talking about. 

651 Again, I'm the proponent of self defense. I was ultimately more than just robbed away, it was a physical assault. I'm going to defend myself against that from now on.


Did Zimmerman steal Martin's stereo?


Did Martin steal Zimmerman's stereo?


I read an eye-witness account on the internet that said they saw Martin trying to carjack Zimmerman out of his SUV.

652

which is what zimmerman did when he was getting his ass kicked. why do you have a problem w/ that?

--------------

So the guy that stole my laptop could have just killed me for fighting back?

653 3. What racial reason was I hoping you would give?
----------------
The same reason Zimmerman's defenders seem to think I'm here--that the cops were protecting him because he's "white". Sorry, I'm not going there. Doesn't interest me as much as the self-defense angle. Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:24 PM



You know, I wasn't thinking along those lines at all.  What I WAS thinking was that you had laid out a clear argument that Zimmerman was in the wrong for his pursuit and for the subsequent shooting.  And I was wondering of perhaps you might just possibly see the possibility of the police possibly knowing other facts in the case that would negate your version of events.

You don't know me, so I guess I will excuse you for jumping to the conclusion that I am a racist.

654

I read an eye-witness account on the internet that said they saw Martin trying to carjack Zimmerman out of his SUV.
-----

I need to see an immediate link.

655 678 Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:24 PM (r/gGh) [i/] Completely agree the problem in this case looks to be lazy and incompetent police work, not that Zimmerman is racist. Sure the MSM is playing that angle up and are in the wrong but it doesnt absolve Zimmerman of Batman-gone-wrongism. This is one of those cases where "conservatives" say trust the government. And get mad when people say nah *facepalm* And of course you are hack Theodore, how dare you not address his straw-man argument? *sarcasm*

656 And I'm not going to wait on someone that intends to do me harm for them to actually harm me.


Zimmerman was intending to do harm to Martin?


Goodness you do struggle mightily to evade every relevant issue and talk about the wookies involved in the situation.


Why don't wookies live on Endor Theodore? It's a nice place. Why don't they like it?

657

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:31 PM (r/gGh)

martin wasnt fighting back according to witness. he attacked zimmerman. zimmerman had a bloody nose, bleeding from back of his head, etc. where do you get he attacked martin first?

658 I need to see an immediate link.


What's your point?


Where's my birds-eye diaroma BTW?

659

You don't know me, so I guess I will excuse you for jumping to the conclusion that I am a racist.
-------

I didn't say you were a racist.  My belief that you thought I'd give a racial defense here doesn't mean you're a racist.  This debate has been turned that way, and I think people on both sides don't mind that debate.

 

They're far more uncomfortable debating this on just pure self-defense terms.

660

What's your point?


Where's my birds-eye diaroma BTW?
--------

Let's see what you read.

661 This is one of those cases where "conservatives" say trust the government.


What the hell are you talking about?


Who do you want to do the investigation, a panel of Susan Sarandon, Spike Lee and Snooki?

662 Let's see what you read.


I'm waiting to read my diorama.


Are you a homosexual?

663

Zimmerman was intending to do harm to Martin?
--------

When he got out of his car and followed him, Martin would reasonably be allowed to believe that.

If you were walking on the street, followed by a car, and you tried to cut the chase off and the guy got out of his car to follow you...at what point would you feel yourself in danger?

664

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:37 PM (r/gGh)

 

there you go assuming a lot. how do you know martin realized he was being followed? or that he tried to cut the chase off?

665 They're far more uncomfortable debating this on just pure self-defense terms.


You keep saying that, but even in "pure" jurisdictions regarding self-defense laws, you are not allowed to kill people for following you in public.


Russell Crowe hits someone with a phone for following him, Russell Crowe gets in trouble for that shit. Can't do that shit.

666 685 Hey 'tard: I said *mostly* because to my knowledge this is the only time he did anything that could be misconstrued otherwise. Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at March 24, 2012 04:28 PM (7+pP9) This is where you are failing to see the point, this maybe the one time he messed up, it may not be, it is the one time he killed a teenager. And because of that for Zimmerman shit is going to hit the fan. That is exactly why you always follow procedure. to prevent this very thing from happening. He doesn't get special brownie points and get out of prosecution free cards for doing things right all the other times. Yea it sucks, but that is what the law demands.

667 i get this awful feeling as if this all happened because two people were paranoid.
and both 'felt' they were in the right. at the time.

668

there you go assuming a lot. how do you know martin realized he was being followed? or that he tried to cut the chase off?

-------------

Well, he WAS being followed, and now several people have said this all happened off the street, which suggests he tried to get away.

 

My assumptions are reasonable.

669 When he got out of his car and followed him, Martin would reasonably be allowed to believe that.


No, dude. People have done that to me. They see me walking somewhere, maybe in a parking lot.


So they drive over, maybe come up slow behind me. Then they pull up, or maybe they park and get out, and come up to me....


Then they ask me "Do you know where Pulaski Ave. is?".


You can't shoot them for that dude. Don't do it. It is not reasonable to believe you are in danger because someone approached you in public. That is not self-defense.

670 "Well he got out of his car and he walked up to me so I shot him."

671 Well, he WAS being followed, and now several people have said this all happened off the street, which suggests he tried to get away.

My assumptions are reasonable.


Several people have said the gun was actually registered to Martin.

672 I also heard that the gun was registered to Martin. Very suspicious.

673

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:41 PM (r/gGh)

 

your assumptions are BULLSHIT. you have no clue as to what happened outside zimmerman shot martin. yet you are out here arguing as if you have some helpful insight to offer. go mow the lawn or something useful. find out what happened you fucking moron.

674 I also heard that the gun was registered to Martin. Very suspicious.

OMG my husband called me and said he read that at work tday! that is so messed up if the media are covering up the fact that this is Martin's gun and also those two were business partners and Martin I think maybe was sleeping with Zimmerman's wife, I heard the guy on the radio say that.

675 CarolinaPunk - knowing what you do of the case, what charges  if any do you think should be filed against Zimmerman?

676

643Possibly, More to the point - there is a difference between rights and privileges.

Guests of the residents and owners may (or may not, whatever the rules are for the HOA) have access privileges to common areas.

The residents and owners have the right to be on their property (meaning their yards and common areas).

Posted by: Rmoney

 

So then in addition to fining you for flying an American flag it is legal and acceptable for your HOA to execute your guests for being in the area unescorted?

677 Martin I think maybe was sleeping with Zimmerman's wife, I heard the guy on the radio say that.


You racist motherfuckers think it's funny?! Oh, a black man can't sleep with a white guys wife? White mexicans sleep with my wife all the time, I charge by the hour, and I can't shoot  none of them, but the minute a brotha gets some white loving it's "justified" for you racist honkies to shoot us!!!


My brother Obama ain't gone have none of that shit!

678

i get this awful feeling as if this all happened because two people were paranoid.
and both 'felt' they were in the right. at the time.
-----------------

Oh, this is EXACTLY right. Both these guys made mistakes.  Is Zimmerman a racist? Possibly.  Don't know.  There is some evidence of a racial slur maybe being used.  Not going to condemn him on that, even though that, I think, is where everyone on both sides is agitating for this battle to go.

 

I'm more interested in what these means for mistakes I make when I'm in reasonable apprehension of my safety.  The idea behind the castle doctrine was, at least partly, that people were being dragged unfairly into court for defending themsleves because they couldn't prove they'd done everything they could to avoid that situation.  Just the idea of that happening to me is scary as hell.  Overzealous cops and prosecutors...it doesn't mean you're a liberal because you believe they're out there.

So where I come down now is, in this situation, have we gone so far that we've come out the other side.  Is the self-defense right so strong that what Zimmerman did here is completely defensible such that, when Trayvon mistakenly believes Zimmerman means him harm (other than to apprehend him from possibly committing a crime) he was unreasonable in acting to cut that off.

679

Posted by: Sam at March 24, 2012 04:46 PM (6VSdJ)

reductio ad absurdum isnt a spell from harry potter....

680 "All Zimmermen could do is hope Martin got bored with beating his face and took a skittles break, or getting knocked unconscious/killed, or putting a slug up Martin's chin through the top of his head.

Thanks for pointing that out Justus Brothas.

Posted by: Rmoney at March 24, 2012 04:23 PM (7MFxV) "

 

Yeah, Rmoney if you get into it with someone and start to win all he has to do is shoot your dumbass.  Doesn't matter if he started it or not according to you.  Granted I might think if he started he needs to face a jury.

 

Zimmerman was losing so he shot the kid.  Okay, take it to trial, that's all I am saying and that's what his parents are asking for.   There are witnesses contesting the police accounts, but no one saw who initiated the fight.  If the jury says not guilty or guilty on a lesser count, so be it!

681

Several people have said the gun was actually registered to Martin.
-----

Link?

682 Yeah, whatever hoodrats...  Just remember that that round you fired outta your sideways, oh so cool looking gat is gonna fall short and hit the ground about 50-odd meters short of the range of my SMALLEST rifle...

Bring your "... law of retaliation..." 'round here and see how far you get before you start leaking precious bodily fluids.

683 Theodore, my assumptions are reasonable. I have seen several people mention they they also heard reported the information that I had heard reported.


When you consider that Martin had actually brought the gun and that Zimmerman's co-workers have overheard him talking about getting Zimmerman 'out of the way' so he could pursue his love interest, Zimmerman's wife, I think Zimmerman is clearly acting in self defense here.


Please show me a link that proves otherwise so I can see what you read.

684
as usual you keep talking and exposing your stupidity. you fault zimmerman for "patrolling" the streets when thats the cops job and now you are talking about how incompetent cops are. your just making it up as you go along.

Posted by: chas at March 24, 2012 04:25 PM (xAq1C)

Theodore is a Usenet liberal, making up shit as he goes along. I fought these types on Usenet for many years before the advent of the Blogosphere. If he was truly a conservative he'd be making a Libertarian or Ronulan argument. Instead, he simply grasps at straws. One other clue he's a Usenet liberal: he refuses to admit defeat, accommodate or back down. Those guys had to win every debate, even if it meant commenting long after the thread no longer showed up on the newsreader. Theodore will probably make his final comment after this thread is long dead, on the day before it goes into the archives.

685

Then they ask me "Do you know where Pulaski Ave. is?".


You can't shoot them for that dude. Don't do it. It is not reasonable to believe you are in danger because someone approached you in public. That is not self-defense.
---------------

Where have I EVER suggested shooting someone for that? Have you been diagnosed with any kind of mental illness?

686

 can easily imagine Martin being offended that this man was following
him in his dad/dad's GF neighborhood for no other reason than he was
walking while black.

 

For  all  you  know  Martin  was  on  a  "polar  bear  hunt",  the  new  fun  game  of  urban  youts.

 

By  the  way,  sitting  on  someone's  chest  and  pounding  their  skull   when  they're  prone  begging  for  help  isn't  self-defense,  it's  aggravated  assault.  Just  like  chasing  someone  down  the  street  and  shooting  them  in  the   back  isn't  self-defense   either.

687

Theodore, my assumptions are reasonable. I have seen several people mention they they also heard reported the information that I had heard reported.


When you consider that Martin had actually brought the gun and that Zimmerman's co-workers have overheard him talking about getting Zimmerman 'out of the way' so he could pursue his love interest, Zimmerman's wife, I think Zimmerman is clearly acting in self defense here.


Please show me a link that proves otherwise so I can see what you read.
-------

You've posted several specific facts.  Said you read them online.  I'm just asking.  It's your chance to prove me wrong.

688 Fuck the law of retaliation.


Law of Armor bitches.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRxB_5ByNmc


Ain't nobody gonna follow me. I walk alone!

689

If he was truly a conservative he'd be making a Libertarian or Ronulan argument.

--------------------

Well, I actually am a libertarian now.  Which is why I believe in being left alone.  That includes by the government and busybody neighbors.

690 I'm sick of gun threads. We need a personal armor thread.

691 I'm just asking. It's your chance to prove me wrong.


Exactly.


You too, I mean, it's your chance. This is the Big shots. Serious f'n business right now. Please.

692 Two words:


Diorama.

693 Birds-eye view plz.

694 we need a fkitall thread with a smattering of smod.

695 6 Anybody else see the Miami Heat team picture with their hoodies pulled over the heads in tribute? Umm. Yeah. Now I remember why I never watch the NBA anymore. Posted by: Lord Humungus misses AB at March 24, 2012 12:24 PM Yep, just saw this earlier thanks to FoxSports.com highlighting an article from Jason Whitlock calling Wade and Lebron "courageous". For what? Standing in hoodie-unity with a gang-banging thug who attacked a neighborhood watch captain? Yeah, brilliant. So "courageous". What a fucking joke. http://on-msn.com/GNsupr An excerpt: ========== Now, I truly believe Wade and James teamed together for a higher purpose none of us, including Wade and James, understood at the time of “The Decision.” James and Wade are teaching us a lesson about sacrifice, intellectual evolution, courage, maturity and loyalty. You could see all of that Friday in their decision to lead their teammates in publicly supporting the quest for justice in the tragic killing of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old Florida kid who was gunned down by an overzealous volunteer neighborhood watchman. Friday morning, by tweeting a bowed-head, hoodie-draped team photo, the Heat players joined the outraged voices demanding a full and transparent investigation into the shooter, George Zimmerman. This was not an organization-approved act of protest. This was Wade and James independently using their platforms to shed light on a human tragedy that took the life of a Miami kid who was apparently profiled as a criminal simply because he was wearing a hoodie at the wrong time in the wrong gated suburban neighborhood. (If you are unaware of the case, you can get up to speed by reading this Wikipedia link. The reaction by the police to Martin’s death is the primary reason so many Americans are outraged.) Shortly after James and Wade made their positions public, Knicks star Carmelo Anthony followed suit. So did the Heat organization. By the end of Friday, the NBA Players Association, led by executive director Billy Hunter, a former prosecutor, issued a strong statement calling for Zimmerman’s arrest and prosecution.

696 or i can just go out and mow the lawn, which needs it.
peace

697

Is this about the alley thing?  Didn't we do that already?  Someone else said it, and I addressed it.

Someone else--again a Zimmerman defender--then said this happend in yards.  Which would explain the grass stain.  I've also assumed that for purposes of the argument.

 

698 Entropy, you need to provide links with evidence. I had never heard before now that this was Martin's gun.

699 Okay, take it to trial, that's all I am saying and that's what his parents are asking for.

And you consider that sufficient grounds to bring a case to trial.

You're an even bigger idiot than I thought.

700 a human tragedy that took the life of a Miami kid who was apparently profiled as a criminal simply because he was wearing a hoodie

Well that is a tragedy. Theodore didn't even MENTION that part.


What we have here is a confirmed report of somebody saying that Zimmerman actually told the officers that he thought hooded sweatshirts were illegal because of anti-terrorist laws, and that he had mistaken the garment for an islamic kafiyah.

701 Entropy, you need to provide links with evidence. I had never heard before now that this was Martin's gun.


I am waiting for you to provide links with evidence of all the things you said that I had not heard before, because I have never talked to you before.


How do we know you are not a troll or some stormfront racist unless you let us see what you read?

702 The diorama must be made outta motherfuckin' Peeps, and narrated by Doug Jeffers.

703 "So punk, you're asking yourself...did he have one of those single serving Skittles Fun Paks or did he buy one of those big bags hanging next to the cash register?..."

704 716 CarolinaPunk - knowing what you do of the case, what charges if any do you think should be filed against Zimmerman? Posted by: mama winger at March 24, 2012 04:45 PM (P6QsQ) At most it is probably voluntary manslaughter, the imperfect self defense. Zimmerman had an unreasonable fear for his life and started the confrontation. Was there any malice forethought? I'd say no, Zimmerman put himself in a bad situation with a bad outcome, but did not intend to kill him. Even though it is an accident in many ways you still have to pay. Doubtful any federal civil rights violations could be brought since Gov Scott and the State of FL is now investigating, DOJ is mostly just keeping pressure for the State to follow the law to the letter. 717 Posted by: Blue Hen at March 24, 2012 04:46 PM (c9Ivb) Yea an investigation that trayvons family, a large segment of the public, FL State Attorney's office and DOJ think to be botched by the local PD. Many attorney's/judges think Zimmerman cant use self defense cause he pursued Trayvon. Just b/c sharpton got involved doesnt diminish the legitimate doubts ppl have about the initial investigation. Cops make mistakes all the time. I really think that the Sanford PD was incompetent to the nature of the SYG law, and that is where a prosecution is going to rest.

705

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 05:01 PM (r/gGh)

 

and thats your biggest problem, you keep "assuming" things. you are clueless, an ignorant fucking moron who keeps posting as if you know anything. and then you demand others provide proof of their claims. learn what happened, where it happened and who was doing what and then come back, dipshit.

706

Did the Washington Post, NY Times, LA Times, and so on cover the white boy set on fire by several black ones who shouted racial slurs?

I did a quick search of the WP archives for the white boy's name "Allen Coon" found nothing.

A search of the NYT also found nothing.

The media will run wild with a story --- if it fits a liberal sensibility and will draw in an audience. 

Jon Benet Ramsey:  Children go missing and/or are killed across the country every day.  I could understand when black families (and others) got fed up with the constant news coverage and started wondering why the brutal deaths of non-white (or their kids) didn't get the same. 

Ramesy's murder was not worthy of initial national news coverage.  But, it was the murder of a child - with a compelling family photo to exploit - on Christmas - but most important --- the immediate suspects were the wealthy white parents....

James Byrd, Jr.:  Was worthy of national news.  It was a horrific way to die.  It was clearly a crime driven by racial hatred.  Given the nation's history of racial animosity, it isn't a surprise it was national news.  How symbolic the local tragedy was of the state of the nation - or even Texas - at the time (199 is debatable.

Allen Coon:  A 13 year old set on fire because of the color of his skin.  Worth at least a couple of stories in the Washington Post and NY Times???

Trayvo Martin:  To me, this is not national news.  Certainly not worthy of continual coverage.

It is a tragic event - especially for the family.  But, I have no reason to believe the color of the boys skin was the cause of the death --- except for the media and pop culture figures telling me I have to immediately jump to the conclusion it was a racial hate crime because one was black and the other was white.

People are reading the shooters mind based solely on the color of his skin --- and even there the color they want to see since the man is half-Hispanic...

I wonder why the media didn't play up his Hispanic blood?

Race relations between blacks and Hispanics were bad when I lived their in the mid-1990s.  Race relations between blacks and Hispanics isn't great in areas of Georgia, where I've spent most of my life, where both groups make up a significant percentage of the population. 

If the media wanted to draw attention to on-going racial problems that have a national reach, why not cover that angle?

In Miami, it might set off a race war.

I guess the media is like Spike Lee:  If some white guy gets killed over this, its all for social justice.....

707 Someone else--again a Zimmerman defender--then said this happend in yards.


RLY? SRSLY? RLY SRSLY? I find this hard to beleive with a source.


How do you know it was a Zimmerman defender, did you get it notarized?


If it WAS a real Zimmerman defender, then that would prove everything about what happened and whats going on here. But how do you know that it was not a Martin defender posing as a Zimmerman defender to discredit the white hispanic community?

708

That last one knocks Theodore out.

------

Wait...what?

 

Where have I talked about hoodies?  This is not a racial event for me. Read my post 720.

 

Someone here wondered why, if I was a conservative...I wasn't taking the libertarian angle. 

 

But I am.  I'm taking the I don't trust the cops to do a complete and full investigation, I want to be left alone, angle.

For some reason, based on that, people have assumed Farrakahn sent me here.  They've tried to argue that I believe Martin had every right to shoot Zimmerman. 

It's insane.  You're not a liberal just because you're troubled about the invocation of the castle doctrine under the facts as we've heard them.

709

How do you know it was a Zimmerman defender, did you get it notarized?
--------------

It was someone on this thread making an argument defending him.  Should I have gotten it notarized?

710 Maybe I'm a troll and a racist. Maybe I'm Satan himself here to take your soul. It still wouldn't change that, if you are claiming the gun was Martin's and not Zimmerman's, the burden of proof is yours.

This whole brouhaha came up on the assumption that Zimmerman was armed and the aggressor. If Martin brought the gun to the event, that changes a lot.

711
Well, I actually am a libertarian now. Which is why I believe in being left alone. That includes by the government and busybody neighbors.

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 04:55 PM (r/gGh)

And not respecting private property rights. Is that a Libertarian position?

712

re: 751:  To me, this is not national news. Certainly not worthy of continual coverage.-----

Casey Anthony wasn't either.  But it got it.

Every story, no matter how local, can be national.  Just has to push the right buttons.

This pushes racial buttons and solves a problem for Obama--a disinterested black voting block.  It's unfortunate that's where it's headed, but it is.

It is NOT why I'm interested in it.

713 www.bellaonline.org/ articles/ art175779.asp

Zimmerman said the 9mm pistol was his.

714

And not respecting private property rights.

---------------

What private property rights?  Zimmerman wasn't in his house.  And Martin was a guest of a resident.

If your argument is he deserves to be shot because he shouldn't have been out buying skittles without his host...then I guess that's fine.

715

My latest blog post: “Mr. President, If I Had a Son…. ”

 

http://t.co/yrlZbVv5

 

In which I bamboozle/okey-doke/rope-a-dope the administration with their own numbersÂ…..

716 Remember that in Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing, there was a not-so-subtle hold on graffiti on a wall that read, "TAWANA TOLD THE TRUTH"

717 Well, I actually am a libertarian now. Which is why I believe in being left alone. That includes by the government and busybody neighbors.


Well I was reading Libertarian websites and some of the commentors over there thought the same way, and they said that if the Government tries to tax you it's OK to shoot them because it's self defense.


I read those websites a lot though since I am a libertarian and I also do think all revenuers should be hung and mantraps in my front yard should be legal on account of property rights. Don't want to get impaled by poison punji sticks? GET OFF MY MOTHERFUCKING LAWN!


How do we know Theodore is not a subversive anti-government anarchist in that mold?

Leopold and Lobe were anarchists I think, and they killed children!

718 every site I found on the topic says that the gun was a Kel-Tec registered in Zimmerman's name

719 some of you need to go re-read the posts about the gun being martin's. pay particular attention to name of the person posting those assertions.

720 Poisoned punji sticks do have the potential to kill the little-uns if their balls go stray or something and that's why I voluntarily chose to honor her request that I remove them of my own volition after two of her oldest were killed trying to retrieve the dog's corpse.

721 Zimmerman said the 9mm pistol was his.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at March 24, 2012 05:13 PM (QTHTd)

 

There you have it. Anyone who only shoots someone  only  once with that underpowered pos, obviously didn't mean to kill him.

722 pay particular attention to name of the person posting those assertions.


Are you saying someone is trying to sockpuppet the debate and manufacture a false consensus by deliberately misrepresenting himself in the most obvious way possible?


Under common understanding of self-defense, does this enable us to shoot him?


I read shit on the internet! This is reasonable.

723

some of you need to go re-read the posts about the gun being martin's. pay particular attention to name of the person posting those assertions.

--------------

I read ace often, but not the comments.  Is entropy known for this.  Because what he posted in 763 is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen.

724

Just saw this news- it looks like BHO still hasn't learned to wait for the facts before shooting off his mouth. Shades of Henry Louis Gates and the Cambridge cop.

Curious timing: this happened three weeks ago; it just got significant public notice last week; Obama finally commented on it  Friday. And now we have a witness who refutes the conventional wisdom.  

Rove, you magnificent bastard! Bwahahahaha!

 

725 Theodore, yeah, I don't know if this is the real Entropy. There are several comments under his name and hash here which are... odd.

726
What private property rights? Zimmerman wasn't in his house. And Martin was a guest of a resident.
If your argument is he deserves to be shot because he shouldn't have been out buying skittles without his host...then I guess that's fine.

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 05:14 PM (r/gGh)

Gated community, dumbfuck.

727 It was someone on this thread making an argument defending him. Should I have gotten it notarized?


How are you going to present it in a law court? Are you going to subpoena Ace and Pixy Misa?


Dude, you have to maintain Chain of Evidence collection procedures or you could jeopardize this case and let that asshole Zimmerman off free because you were lazy and the courts rule the Zimmerman Defender's testimony invalid.

728

Gated community, dumbfuck.

------------

So you can't have a guest in a gated community?  Unless you're with them the whole time.

 

Look, if your argument is that Martin forfeited some right here by being there, fine.  Just say so.  But my guess is no one would have charged him with any kind of property crime here. 

729 I responded a bit quickly, Theodore.

Who was Martin a guest of?

Name? Address? Proof?

730 okay, i tried but it went over some people's head. entropy, shoot anyone you suspect of sock-puppeting or aiding and abetting a sockpuppeteet.

731 759 Posted by: Blue Hen at March 24, 2012 05:14 PM (c9Ivb) *sigh* you are either trolling or stupid as to how trials such as this work. There no such thing as a defense b/c your case was heavily covered in the media, that what a change of venue is for. POTUS did not call for a lynch mob, while it may be improper for him to speak on specific case you wont win an appeal on him poisoning the jury pool like that. (Also Newt, Romney and Santorum have all said justice is to be pursued) If the Sanford police had done their job there would not have been an uproar or huge media coverage. Also that is what Jury selection is for, you ask the jurors have they seen coverage of the event? and can the be impartial? They can also be sequestered if necessary during a trial. Again the only reason we are here is b/c the Sanford police didnt do thier job (for example the Martin family had to file a civil lawsuit just to get the 911 tapes out) They deserve a through accounting. And fuck it ive been here for 5hours, im going to fap. Dont feed the trolls yall

732

How are you going to present it in a law court? Are you going to subpoena Ace and Pixy Misa?


Dude, you have to maintain Chain of Evidence collection procedures or you could jeopardize this case and let that asshole Zimmerman off free because you were lazy and the courts rule the Zimmerman Defender's testimony invalid.
---------

I'm going to skip your posts and pretend you don't exist.  Because the reality that you do is far to scary for me to confront today.

733

I responded a bit quickly, Theodore.

Who was Martin a guest of?

Name? Address? Proof?
------------------

My understanding is dad's fiance.  Maybe she didn't live there and he wandered into the community.

If your believe is he absolutely shouldn't have been there and was up to no good, then say so.

 

734 Entropy, Chas, Ed Angry, Blue Hen all suck cocks btw. Totally true. Saw it on fox.

735 At least according to wikipedia, the fiance's home was in the gated community.

736 okay, i tried but it went over some people's head. entropy, shoot anyone you suspect of sock-puppeting or aiding and abetting a sockpuppeteet.


Amazing, isn't it?


Following and sockpuppeting and cavorting shall not be allowed, these things will get you shot, out of self defense and also on account of sounding like faggotry.


I don't know what cavorting is, or canoodling, but I will cap a bitch if they try it.

737

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 05:26 PM (r/gGh)

 

wandered??? you keep claiming he was running for his life and now you think he might have wandered into the wrong GATED community. if he did indeed "wander" into a wrong community it involved fence-jumping possibly, or following through a gate when he shouldnt have.

738 If I ever get a trial, am I allowed to demand a jury that has an IQ of 135+??


For it to be a jury of my peers and not 12 frightened and confused people wondering why Chewbacca ate their dog's homework, I really ought to be able to make IQ demands.

739 Y'all got to admit this is a nice change of pace from talking about birth control, amirite?

740

wandered??? you keep claiming he was running for his life and now you think he might have wandered into the wrong GATED community. if he did indeed "wander" into a wrong community it involved fence-jumping possibly, or following through a gate when he shouldnt have.

---------------------

I'm asking Ed if that is his claim.  My understanding is the fiance lived in the community and he was her guest, out to buy skittles.  I've not heard anything to the contrary.

 

Until Ed suggested perhaps he was trespassing.  I'm asking what he meant.

741 Entropy, Chas, Ed Angry, Blue Hen all suck cocks btw. Totally true. Saw it on fox.

If you are going to make that claim I think it is incumbent upon you to provide a link to that, because I have not heard that claim before. I would like to see what kind of stuff you read.

742 Hard to 'wander' into a gated subdivision surrounded by woods and water...

743 And that's like the third time someone arguing for Zimmerman has claimed a fact, and I've addressed it, and then another person arguing for Zimmerman claims the fact is mine.

744 Remember that in Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing, there was a not-so-subtle hold on graffiti on a wall that read, "TAWANA TOLD THE TRUTH"

Posted by: logprof at March 24, 2012 05:15 PM (ykSKg)

That whole movie was retarded, like most of Spike Lee's crap.

745

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 05:33 PM (r/gGh)

My understanding is dad's fiance. Maybe she didn't live there and he wandered into the community.
If your believe is he absolutely shouldn't have been there and was up to no good, then say so.

 

taht is not in the form of a question. that is you making a statement. you are a sad sad little troll.

746 I'm going to skip your posts and pretend you don't exist. Because the reality that you do is far to scary for me to confront today.


But if I follow you, "off the path", you will shoot me right?


So seriously, where is this path? If I do not have a diorama, and I do not know where the path is, I cannot know if I am following you on or off it! So if I see you, I will just have to assume, reasonably, that you are a threat to me and shoot you! In self defense.

747

Hard to 'wander' into a gated subdivision surrounded by woods and water...
-------

There it is again!  I'm not saying he did that.  I'm very clearly asking someone who is apparently contending Martin trespassed if that's what happened.

 

 

748 Entropy, Chas, Ed Angry, Blue Hen all suck cocks btw. Totally true. Saw it on fox.

If you are going to make that claim I think it is incumbent upon you to provide a link to that, because I have not heard that claim before. I would like to see what kind of stuff you read.

Posted by: Entropy at March 24, 2012 05:34 PM (Ci0JG)

 

better be careful w/ your answer blue hen. entropy or some variation of entropy is lock and loaded.

749 You can get some 3a armor on Ebay for around $300. They are kind of proud of the plates, though.

750

taht is not in the form of a question. that is you making a statement. you are a sad sad little troll.

------------

No, I'm trying to get Ed to be specific in what he's saying so we can debate that point.  My understanding is clearly stated--he was there intentionally visiting someone that lived there.

751 "Spike Lee, who also involved himself in the Tawana Brawley case, tweeted Zimmerman's address. Nice going, Spike. Maybe someone will shoot him, huh?"

And now I have to rescind my recent hat tips in support of Spike Lee. It turns out he might just be a racist. Way to go, fool.

752
Theodore:

As guest of a member of a gated community, Martin did not enjoy the rights of a person traveling on a public right-of-way.

Any member of a gated community can challenge the rights of a person traveling in a gated community.

As a former surveyor, I have forgotten more property law than you will ever know.

753 Robert, I don't think it's funny. It's looking to me like whoever it is who's posting under "Entropy"'s name has seriously lost his shit. I hope it's just a today thing.

754 And that's like the third time someone arguing for Zimmerman has claimed a fact, and I've addressed it, and then another person arguing for Zimmerman claims the fact is mine.


But you reject my facts out of hand???


Is it because I'm a african-hispanic white male lesbian?


You say you want to see my links, because you have not heard these things, but I just edited the wikipedia page and you can check for yourself that it says these things now.

755

Theodore:

As guest of a member of a gated community, Martin did not enjoy the rights of a person traveling on a public right-of-way.

Any member of a gated community can challenge the rights of a person traveling in a gated community.

As a former surveyor, I have forgotten more property law than you will ever know.
----------------

Actually, that would depend on what the HOA agreement says.

 

Anyway, why did you ask whether Martin was a guest if you knew that?  Why did you ask me for the name and address?

 

756 Maybe Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a Zima for his Skittles, and Zimmerman flew into a homicidal rage, 'cause he thought he was being hit on?

757 The Twinkies defense my friends.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo-intellectual at March 24, 2012 05:38 PM (hXJOG)

 

When I hear Tray von Martin, my mind keeps assuming a danish import who lives in Texas.

758 Late to the party here, but Philly's illustrious DA Seth Williams, tweeted a pic of himself in a hoodie "in support" of Trayvon Martin. 

http://tinyurl.com/883kcxn

Yeah, white people in Philly have a shot at justice.  Or not.

759 This  racist  tragedy  would  never  happen  if  women  had  adequate  access  to  birth  control

760

84 - "who now is still accused of do nothing illegal except at most defending himself from a stranger approaching him"

As I understand it, he was walking in a gated community where he wasn't a resident.  Having taken short-cuts through people's property in my youth many a time, this is a probable reason for his running away when he saw someone following him.

Regardless, he wasn't shot because he was trespassing.  He was shot because he got involved in a fight and was apparently winning.

We don't know the details of how the fight started.  We don't know why it escalated to an attack or who started the attack.

The fact it was a gated community makes a key difference.  It is the same as trespassing on private property.  It takes much out of the argument that boy could be considered to have only been defending himself from a stranger following him.

I think the police should have arrested the man and let the district attorney decide whether charges should be pressed or dropped.  That is more in line with usual police proceedure.

The fact they didn't leads me to believe there was more damage to the man than what has been reported.  Others are jumping to the conclusion the man not being black was the reason he wasn't charged.  In my experience, what determines who gets charged depends on how much physical evidence there is on the scene.

In this case, we know there was some blood and signs of damage on Zimmerman.  There was also a witness saying - at the time he was looking - the teen was on top of the man beating him.

This is clearly a judgment call.  A call better done by the actual people on the scene looking at the phycial evidence --- not people reading media reports - and not reporters - basing it on the color of people's skins and whether or not both parties were armed.

 

761 Oh, and Williams' office refuses to prosecute the charge of Ethnic Intimidation if the victims are white - or worse - Jewish.  Detectives in my division have put forth the charges more than a few times, always to be refused.

762 Dear Boulder Toilet Hobo,


I cannot believe you do not see what is going on here, but I suspect your genetic immunity to sarcasm could be an interesting contribution to the body of scientific knowledge if decoded.


Will you shoot me if I follow you down a grocery aisle?


Would it make any difference (maybe depending on where the "path" is) whether it is the frozen goods aisle or the greeting cards aisle?


If you want to see something really absurd, check this out:


and that's like the third time someone arguing for Zimmerman has claimed a fact, and I've addressed it, and then another person arguing for Zimmerman claims the fact is mine.


This guy is trying to claim credit for facts that are not his facts, but someone elses. He is a fact-stealer, and he is misrepresenting the set of facts that he is arguing as his,  when they are in fact, someone elses facts entirely, which you can tell because I read it on the internet.


So I ask you: Do you seriously think people should be thrown in jail and/or shot dead over this?


And if you say "no", how do you explain the fact that George Lucas just raped my cocker spaniel?

763 Here's a photo from Tryvon's Facebook page:

http://tinyurl.com/7xaxx7z

I guess his family couldn't get out in front of this one.

764 805 BTH: From 806, looks like Entropy has a pretty firm grasp on reality. Jonathan Swift style humor.   

765 division have put forth the charges more than a few times, always to be refused.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at March 24, 2012 05:46 PM (Q4XON)

 

Yep. There is a new sherrif in town.

766 9 This story holds no interest too me. The deficit in 3 years of Obama is worse than Bush in 8, and Obama fucking care costs double what those lying fucks said. Thats news, not some random dude getting shot in Florida.

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 24, 2012 12:26 PM (AdqLR)

It better start interesting you because  Obama and Holder have inserted themeselves with the intention of creating a race war that could propel O to re-election (or so he hopes); this could  be "it", the thing that O uses to declare martial law, use NDAA, God knows what. If the doesn't fizzle, O might even use it to cancel the elections. I'm not joking.

767 We don't know the details of how the fight started. We don't know why it escalated to an attack or whostarted the attack.


We DO KNOW that the skittles were WILD BERRY. Not tropical, not regular, but..... wild berry.





Wild berry.


Why, god? Oh, god. What we have done? As a society?

768 This is where Derrick Bell's teachings, and the crux of the gender/race/class studies, can shed light as to why Obama and other racialists on the left are making a big deal of this. According to Bell and others, America is inherently racist and people who are "privileged" by whiteness (which is why Zimmerman's race is either not stated or referred to as "WHITE Hispanic"), act in a racist manner regardless of what they actually think. "White" individuals are presumed to be racist, and not even professed advocacy for "social justice," and thus their status as an "ally," may be enough to save them. It is truly guilty even if proven innocent; it is what the left calls "social justice." Thus, "social justice" would require that Zimmerman be convicted of a "hate crime" regardless of his guilt or what really happened because it would help smash the "inherently racist" "white" norms and culture. This bizarre ideology is what is being taught kids from pre-school to post-graduate study. They are the modern day equivalent of Jacobins, and their enemy, Western Civilization, is casually walking towards the guillotine. This will not end well.

769 This racist tragedy would never happen if women had adequate access to birth control


Are you trying to say that more abortions would decrease crime because all criminals are black?!?

770

" the double standard most in the black community see is that those blacks will be arrested when found, as they should be, and as Zimmerman should have been"

What people in the white community are focused on is the double standard in the media and popular culture.  This is a local news story.  It is a tragic event, but it does not have national significance. 

The only reason we have to believe racial animosity was involved is the fact they had different skin colors.  In the white boy set on fire, the attackers used racial slurs while doing it. 

To me, the white boy begin set on fire isn't particularly national news.  Maybe a next day's article worth. 

But, what angers people in the white community is that events like the one in Miami are blown out of prorpotion to the point of possibly igniting racial attacks across the country - even when racism isn't a clear motive in the original attack - but a black-on-white crime that is clearly motived by race dosn't even make it into the Washington Post or NY Times...

 

771 they are still re-tweeting zimmermans address .

772 Maybe Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a Zima for his Skittles, and Zimmerman flew into a homicidal rage, 'cause he thought he was being hit on?


My work here is done.


I must go follow people around the block.


Carry on, Gentlemen!

773 Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the
Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the
evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we
have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case.
The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of
this incident.

We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the
State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.

774

Actually, that would depend on what the HOA agreement says.

I've never seen  HOA agreement that gives carte blanche access to non members. That's, after all, what HOAs are all about. All gated communities I have worked in required me to check in at the guard desk. And all members of an HOA have vested interests in the traveled ways of the community, just as in any approved subdivision.

Anyway, why did you ask whether Martin was a guest if you knew that? Why did you ask me for the name and address?

Posted by: Theodore at March 24, 2012 05:41 PM (r/gGh)

Just he facts, Ma'am. (as Sargent Friday would say)