Ace of Spades HQ

June 13, 2012

Nigel Farage: 'The Euro-Titanic Has Now Hit the Iceberg'
— rdbrewer

"And, sadly, there simply aren't enough lifeboats."

Nigel Farage is the leader of the UK Independence Party and is a member of the European Parliament.

Another one bites the dust. Country number four, Spain, gets bailed out and we all of course know that it won't be the last. Though I wondered over the weekend whether perhaps I was missing something, because when the Spanish prime minister Mr Rajoy got up, he said that this bailout shows what a success the eurozone has been.
And I thought, well, having listened to him over the previous couple of weeks telling us that there would not be a bailout, I got the feeling after all his twists and turns he's just about the most incompetent leader in the whole of Europe, and that's saying something, because there is pretty stiff competition.
Indeed, every single prediction of yours, Mr Barroso, has been wrong, and dear old Herman Van Rompuy, well he's done a runner hasn't he. Because the last time he was here, he told us we had turned the corner, that the euro crisis was over and he hasn't bothered to come back and see us.
I remember being here ten years ago, hearing the launch of the Lisbon Agenda. We were told that with the euro, by 2010 we would have full employment and indeed that Europe would be the competitive and dynamic powerhouse of the world. By any objective criteria the Euro has failed, and in fact there is a looming, impending disaster.
You know, this deal makes things worse not better. A hundred billion [euro] is put up for the Spanish banking system, and 20 per cent of that money has to come from Italy. And under the deal the Italians have to lend to the Spanish banks at 3 per cent but to get that money they have to borrow on the markets at 7 per cent. It's genius isn't it. It really is brilliant.
So what we are doing with this package is we are actually driving countries like Italy towards needing to be bailed out themselves.

From the information provided on YouTube, he was speaking at the European Parliament on June 13th, joint debate, European Council meeting.

Thanks to @ningrim.

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Posted by: rdbrewer at 03:41 PM | Comments (148)
Post contains 395 words, total size 2 kb.

1 And under the deal the Italians have to lend to the Spanish banks at 3 per cent but to get that money they have to borrow on the markets at 7 per cent.

This, right there, explains the death of the Euro more succinctly than anything else.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at June 13, 2012 03:43 PM (bjRNS)

2 The Euro sounds remarkedly like the Obama. All I can say is "there but for the grace of the Euro goes the dollar".

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 03:45 PM (YdQQY)

The Euro will fail.

Unfortunately this will probably drive Europe into a Depression and the US into a deep recession.

Posted by: rd at June 13, 2012 03:46 PM (9sUlj)

4 2 All I can say is "there but for the grace of the Euro goes the dollar". Well, we're right behind them.

Posted by: rickl at June 13, 2012 03:47 PM (sdi6R)

5 This might all be handled if we could just have Poland.

Posted by: Germany at June 13, 2012 03:47 PM (QKKT0)

6 The other major question is "how many more billion of our printed dollars are we going to give them"?

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 03:47 PM (YdQQY)

7 Unfortunately this will probably drive Europe into a Depression and the US into a deep recession.

Posted by: rd at June 13, 2012 07:46 PM (9sUlj

We are already in a depression. It will drive Europe into total collapse and we will not be far behind them.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 03:48 PM (YdQQY)

8 Just like America and her Social Security, all we need to do is kick the can down the road some more.

Posted by: Euroweenie at June 13, 2012 03:49 PM (7+pP9)

9 The Euro is doing fine.

Posted by: BHO at June 13, 2012 03:49 PM (fVgpT)

10 Dang, where is Nostradamus when you need him?

Posted by: jinx the cat at June 13, 2012 03:49 PM (8PLqc)

Unfortunately Nigel Farage and his party is not winning many seats in British parliament.

In many ways he reminds me of Winston Churchill in the 1930's. He can see the storm coming and is sounding the alarm, but no one is listening.

Posted by: rd at June 13, 2012 03:49 PM (9sUlj)

12 Time to sit on the porch and open up a bottle.

Posted by: Junshin at June 13, 2012 03:50 PM (VWlmO)

13 SS is actually OK (for now). It is SSDI and Medicade which is collapsing, largely due to fraud.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 03:50 PM (YdQQY)

14 Unfortunately this will probably drive Europe into a Depression and the US into a deep recession.

Why are you rooting for America to fail?

Posted by: BHO at June 13, 2012 03:50 PM (6TB1Z)

15 Nigel reacted stupidly.

Posted by: Barack at June 13, 2012 03:51 PM (VWlmO)

16 so long as the Euro central bank has paper and ink they'll convince themselves they they can make it better. At least Romney understands what it means to go bankrupt so all might not be lost for us

Posted by: mallfly at June 13, 2012 03:51 PM (mNv7n)

17 But, but, we need to be more like Europe.

Posted by: The Democrat Party at June 13, 2012 03:51 PM (mV8sg)

18 Why are you rooting for America to fail?

Posted by: BHO at June 13, 2012 07:50 PM (6TB1Z)

Obviously because I am racist, or so says my SIL.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 03:51 PM (YdQQY)

19 Does total collapse mean that I won't get to keep all that i have worked for?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 13, 2012 03:51 PM (jucos)

20
The ship is sinking! Quick, we need more deck chairs!

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at June 13, 2012 03:52 PM (xDqit)

21 Clearly austerity measures are choking the European economies. A three to four trillion Euro stimulus is needed immediately.

Posted by: P-Krug at June 13, 2012 03:52 PM (lzvtR)

22 I love him.

Posted by: dagny at June 13, 2012 03:53 PM (WCAIB)

23 Success!

Posted by: Spain's green economy at June 13, 2012 03:53 PM (0xwjJ)

7 We are already in a depression. It will drive Europe into total collapse and we will not be far behind them.

Vic, I hope you are just being a pessimist. But I think you are a realist and I may be an optimist.

Posted by: rd at June 13, 2012 03:53 PM (9sUlj)

25 20 The ship is sinking! Quick, we need more deck chairs!

Leave the chairs. Take the cannoli.

Posted by: pep at June 13, 2012 03:54 PM (6TB1Z)

26 Leave the chairs. Take the cannoli.

Posted by: pep at June 13, 2012 07:54 PM (6TB1Z)

LOL, now I like that

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 03:54 PM (YdQQY)

27 Yeah I just watched that, its a phenomenal speech and its all about why the EU was formed to begin with: to dilute the damage of socialism and keep it going just a little bit longer. They were each running out of other people's money so they formed a bigger body to squeeze just a few more years out of the last dregs of production.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 13, 2012 03:55 PM (r4wIV)

Posted by: Wilkins at June 13, 2012 03:55 PM (fVgpT)

29 Silly me, I thought Barky McFuckstick was some kind of super-brain and then I learn from this guy that Italy is going to contribute bailout cash. Why did they try California and get told to fuck off? Amazing idiocy a worldwide phenomenon. Even Barky couldn't have thought up this.

Posted by: wierd flunky at June 13, 2012 03:55 PM (tlhtD)

30
19 Does total collapse mean that I won't get to keep all that i have worked for?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 13, 2012 07:51 PM (jucos)

No, it means, as always, we'll decide how much of what we let you "earn" you get to keep.

Posted by: Euroweenie at June 13, 2012 03:55 PM (7+pP9)

31 Watch for flurry of alphabet world groups clamoring for fast money to fix everything. Crisis! Crisis! Crisis! Another Crises for O to blame his failures
on - but this one will be bad.

Posted by: Deli LLama at June 13, 2012 03:56 PM (uv9eO)

32 24 Vic, I hope you are just being a pessimist. But I think you are a realist and I may be an optimist. Posted by: rd at June 13, 2012 07:53 PM (9sUlj) An optimist is someone who believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is so.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2012 03:57 PM (MCDCp)

33 Europe is boned, and it is going to do its best to take us down with them.

And I don't know a good path for any US policy to avoid getting splattered.

Posted by: XBradTC at June 13, 2012 03:58 PM (yVIqn)

34 Countries, corporations and stock markets are no different than individuals. Bailing them out just delays the collapse and keeps them coming back for more instead of learning any responsibility.

My deadbeat siblings used to call me up every once in a while to "borrow" money to pay rent, buy food, buy gas, get their car out of impound etc... The more I would give, the more they would ask for. I finally got tired of the bullshit and completely stopped giving them anything. Strangely enough, they didn't starve to death, in fact 2 of them started taking life more seriously and actually held down a job for a few years instead of quitting or getting fired every couple of months.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at June 13, 2012 03:58 PM (61yvg)

This was one of those things that I had a gut feeling about: it just wasn't going to work. Couldn't put my finger on it at the time. It was just one of those things. Too many diverse cultures envious of us. Too much socialism to work.

It seemed another one of those ideas that looks really good on paper, but is unworkable in the real world. I just hope it doesn't drag us down too far than we've already gone with Obamanomics.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 13, 2012 03:58 PM (d0Tfm)

36 Today Moody's cut Spain's rating, to Baa3 from A3. Baa3 means you'll get sheared if you buy any of these bonds.

Posted by: Cicero at June 13, 2012 04:00 PM (QKKT0)

37 The US is not, repeat, NOT going to be spared this. We're not going to have another great depression, we're going to have a Spectacular Depression. The same games are being played here, by the same players, self appointed know-it-alls that know nothing. And it will all happen to thunderous applause.

Posted by: TheSev at June 13, 2012 04:00 PM (iHeMr)

38 The World needs an enema.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 13, 2012 04:01 PM (jucos)

39 re 32: nicely put, Sefton

Posted by: mallfly at June 13, 2012 04:01 PM (mNv7n)

40 Wait. Are you telling me that the Euro Zone is in financial straits??

Posted by: soothsayer, for your own good at June 13, 2012 04:01 PM (KreG+)

41 thank goodness this won't effect the US!

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 13, 2012 04:02 PM (8MasJ)

An optimist is someone who believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is so.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 13, 2012 07:57 PM (MCDCp)

Eh, I'm an optimist because I believe that good wins.

Posted by: ErikW at June 13, 2012 04:03 PM (jOUcG)

43

It's not that a common currency was a bad idea for an economic region. The problem was that there was not sufficient cultural or legal homogeneity to support that currency.

Blame the Mediterraneans/Romance language speakers.

Posted by: imp at June 13, 2012 04:03 PM (UaxA0)

44 Take twelve people, some professionals, some blue collar people, and a few outright deadbeats, and give them all one common checkbook. Failure is obvious.

Posted by: nickless at June 13, 2012 04:03 PM (MMC8r)

45 i'm an optimist too: i'm always sure things will get worse, and i've never been wrong yet.

which is why i love my Val-u-Rite.

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 13, 2012 04:04 PM (8MasJ)

46 and expect the usual jackasses to say, See?? We could have saved capitalism but you wouldn't listen!

Posted by: mallfly at June 13, 2012 04:04 PM (mNv7n)

Can some knowledgeable Morons point me to a place that explains how this will affect us? I admit complete and total ignorance on this.

Or a short explanation will do.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 13, 2012 04:04 PM (d0Tfm)

48 Take twelve people, some professionals, some blue collar people, and a few outright deadbeats, and give them all one common checkbook. Failure is obvious. Posted by: nickless at June 13, 2012 08:03 PM (MMC8r) -------------------------------------------------------- Fantastic analogy.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 13, 2012 04:05 PM (jucos)

49 At a conference in Montreal, Mr. Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, said the only solution to the crisis is a full political union.

http://tinyurl.com/dyexte7

Kind of like like shooting holes in the lifeboats was a solution to the Titanic hitting an iceberg.

Posted by: Cicero at June 13, 2012 04:05 PM (QKKT0)

50 24 Vic, I hope you are just being a pessimist. But I think you are a realist and I may be an optimist.

Posted by: rd at June 13, 2012 07:53 PM (9sUlj)

I am a rationalist. Europe has been living on socialism since the end of WWII. The only reason they ave not collapsed yet is that we have been propping them up (the other people's money)

Now as we have been moving harder and harder into socialism since LBJ/Clinton/Obama crowd the other people's money is running out.

We lately were living off of China's money. China sold all our T-bills and now we are buying our own T-bills, i.e. we are simply printing money and monetizing the debt.

Every country that has done that has financially collapsed. every.damned.one

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 04:05 PM (YdQQY)

51 This, right there, explains the death of the Euro more succinctly than anything else.Posted by: Meiczyslaw

Or any plan from the Left, for that matter.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at June 13, 2012 04:06 PM (famk3)

52 "And, ~~sadly~~ by design, there simply aren't enough lifeboats." FIFY

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 13, 2012 04:07 PM (ZZ17e)

53 So you're telling me it's a good idea to go to Spain on another vacation? Because it seems like they could use my help.

Posted by: Moochelle at June 13, 2012 04:07 PM (LK3ef)

54 I'm a vaginarian.

Posted by: soothsayer, for your own good at June 13, 2012 04:08 PM (LPRBM)

55 50

We lately were living off of China's money. China sold all our T-bills and now we are buying our own T-bills, i.e. we are simply printing money and monetizing the debt.

Every country that has done that has financially collapsed. every.damned.one

But this time, it will be different!

Posted by: King Putt at June 13, 2012 04:08 PM (L7hol)

56 47 One problem facing us from this BB is a HUGE amount of this debt is owed to US banks i.e. bond holders. This debt cannot be repaid with anything resembling real money.

Posted by: wierd flunky at June 13, 2012 04:08 PM (tlhtD)

57 35This was one of those things that I had a gut feeling about: it just wasn't going to work. Couldn't put my finger on it at the time. It was just one of those things. Too many diverse cultures envious of us. Too much socialism to work.

It seemedanother one of those ideas that looks really good on paper, but is unworkable in the real world.

--------------------

That was just your innate common-sense betraying the ever failing vision of central planning. The only quibble being that it is bad on paper because it always fails in the real world.

Posted by: cm9000 at June 13, 2012 04:08 PM (lzvtR)

58 Could an invasion help? Because I could do that.

Posted by: Germany at June 13, 2012 04:08 PM (LK3ef)

59 47 Can some knowledgeable Morons point me to a place that explains how this will affect us? I admit complete and total ignorance on this. http://market-ticker.org/ Karl Denninger must surely be blue in the face by now.

Posted by: rickl at June 13, 2012 04:09 PM (sdi6R)

60 Maybe we should have global open boarders and open society and open one world coin and open, openess and my ass vants openess

Posted by: george soros at June 13, 2012 04:09 PM (qA9lG)

61 Could a surrender help? Because I could do that.

Posted by: France at June 13, 2012 04:09 PM (LK3ef)

62 This debt cannot be repaid with anything resembling real money.

Posted by: wierd flunky at June 13, 2012 08:08 PM (tlhtD)

And this is why this will have major impact on the U.S. Look for another call for huge bailout of U.S. banks after the euro collapse. Unfortunately, there is nothing and nobody to bail them out this time.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 04:10 PM (YdQQY)

63 Sadly, the EU and the Euro may have worked if most of the member states had not been welfare states (or turned into one over the course of time). Once a population is used to handouts they will constantly look for and demand more. In the case of the EU the place that they could get more was from other, more successful states such as Germany and the rather than making the EU stronger than the sum of it's constituent countries it made them all weaker.

Posted by: scr_north at June 13, 2012 04:10 PM (lhj3V)

64 19 Does total collapse mean that I won't get to keep all that i have worked for? Posted by: Truck Monkey at June 13, 2012 07:51 PM (jucos) You mean your old baseball card collection, and your ball of string? Nah, you can keep all that in the Post-Collapse Apocalypse. But we get the pron collection.

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 13, 2012 04:11 PM (niZvt)

65 But this time, it will be different!

It's all a matter of having the right people in charge.

Posted by: Cicero at June 13, 2012 04:11 PM (QKKT0)

66 I'm fairly certain that the only thing that gets you the death penalty in Europia is telling the truth about the Euro.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 13, 2012 04:11 PM (Gk3SS)

67 At the risk of raising the ire of the morons, I would like to make a note that all the countries that are failing are Catholic or pre-Catholic. This is not a knock on any Catholic person. It is an observation on pre-Protestant Western cultures versus Protestant ones, like we have in America (for now). There's a reason that this split is happening over cultural, and not ethnic or geographic lines, and it ain't blind bad luck.

Posted by: Truman North, iPhone snob at June 13, 2012 04:11 PM (I2LwF)

68 This is the full Monty that Monty was predicting in his daily doom.

It is here.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 04:12 PM (YdQQY)

69 58,61 Its funny but prolly true, war is almost inevitable. Millions living off gov't largess are going to get very hungry when there's no money to buy food.

Posted by: wierd flunky at June 13, 2012 04:12 PM (tlhtD)

70 Yes, the cat walked down the railroad tracks. I suspect Monty has moved out West somewhere and has hunkered down. Which is why he quit posting.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 04:12 PM (YdQQY)

71 >>>One problem facing us from this BB is a HUGE amount of this debt is owed to US banks i.e. bond holders. This debt cannot be repaid with anything resembling real money. Oh except we made the European central bank a member of the fed, and gave them unlimited license to swap euros for dollars. Yes we did that, gave the EU access to our printing press. So they can repay those debts with frish crisp worthless US dollars when that time comes

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at June 13, 2012 04:12 PM (ZZ17e)

72 54 I'm a vaginarian. Posted by: soothsayer, for your own good at June 13, 2012 08:08 PM (LPRBM) You mean a cunnibal?

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 13, 2012 04:13 PM (niZvt)

73 But we still get to be relevant in a post-Euro world, right? Right? *sniff*

Posted by: Luxembourg at June 13, 2012 04:13 PM (LK3ef)

74 Lady Thatcher on the EU
http://youtu.be/Tetk_ayO1x4

Our EU betters are setting the stage for a Super Great Depression and it won't just be Weimar Germany to topple into dictatorship.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 13, 2012 04:13 PM (eo6ex)

75 re 4: I said that last week. you owe me a five cent royalty. please remit.

Posted by: mallfly at June 13, 2012 04:13 PM (mNv7n)

76 Lifeboats? We don't got to show you no stinking lifeboats, maing!

Posted by: And Irresolute at June 13, 2012 04:14 PM (RC3M9)

77 68 This is the full Monty that Monty was predicting in his daily doom. It is here. Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 08:12 PM (YdQQY) Maybe if I hadn't read dozens of Doom is Here threads in the last two years, I'd get excited...

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 13, 2012 04:14 PM (niZvt)

78 In the end, there will be only chaos.

Posted by: Stating the Obvious at June 13, 2012 04:15 PM (uB19f)

I think this has a good chance of endingin war.

1. The Irish were interviewed on NPR and they blame the Germans for the high tax the EU is requiring of them. They are in tax revolt with 40% refusing to pay.

2. When I was in the UK last week total strangers would start blaming theEU for their troubles, especially the French. These were people who volunteered their opinions when they heard my accent. I din't ask questions.

3. I heard Victor Davis Hanson on local talk radio today. He has been in Europe and said that the Germans and the other northern Europeans feel that they are being abused and taken advantage of. The fact that Germans retire at age 67 while the French just lowered their retirement age to 60 is not going over well. Also, the southern Europeans feel that they are being unfairly punished.

4. And while all of this blaming and confusion goes on, to the east sits Putin, with a large warchest fromoil and gas and a ruthless streak which makes him look at reclaiming those countries that were lost back in the 90's.

I seriously think the Euro Cup could be the trigger for war. They already had a near riot between the Russians and the Poles.

Posted by: Miss Marple at June 13, 2012 04:15 PM (GoIUi)

80 cunnibal -- gotta remember that

Posted by: mallfly at June 13, 2012 04:16 PM (mNv7n)

81 I think this has a good chance of ending in war.

Steyn's been saying for years that he believes that the European countries will revert to form in order to deal with this. So, yup, shooting war is coming up soon.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 13, 2012 04:17 PM (Gk3SS)

82 Miss Marple, soccer has already caused one war. The 1969 Soccer War between El Salvador and Honduras.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 13, 2012 04:17 PM (eo6ex)

83 Wow, this guy is not a good speaker, he never said "let me be clear," "um", or "as I've always said," once in that speech. In fact, I think he cheated because he didn't use a teleprompter.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at June 13, 2012 04:17 PM (QxSug)

84 Now you know why we don't use the Euro. It would jeopardize the success of our hot bikini models.

Posted by: Sweden at June 13, 2012 04:17 PM (LK3ef)

85 Another virtual guarantee is MASSIVE refugee migration trying to escape hunger and deprivation. We visualize refugees in Africa trying to escape famine or the Middle East escaping violence. Picture 10 or 20 million refugees from one part of Europe trying to find food in another country. This only ends badly.

Posted by: wierd flunky at June 13, 2012 04:18 PM (tlhtD)

86 Another new thread up, They are coming "fast and furious".

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 04:19 PM (YdQQY)

87 Steyn's been saying for years that he believes that the European countries will revert to form in order to deal with this. So, yup, shooting war is coming up soon.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD 2012 at June 13, 2012 08:17 PM (Gk3SS)

They'll need an army first.

Posted by: Oldcat at June 13, 2012 04:19 PM (z1N6a)

88 Anything I can do to help?

Posted by: SMOD at June 13, 2012 04:20 PM (0xwjJ)

89 Please, people, if you do have to invade us yet again, just leave behind a little bit of pot. It will make the occupation go over a lot easier. Thanks.

Posted by: The Netherlands at June 13, 2012 04:20 PM (LK3ef)

90 81 Steyn's been saying for years that he believes that the European countries will revert to form in order to deal with this. So, yup, shooting war is coming up soon. Any chance we could stay out of it this time? Yes, I'm being silly.

Posted by: rickl at June 13, 2012 04:20 PM (sdi6R)

91 There's KAY IN MAINE crazy.

There's ERG assholery.

And now there's the best of both in 'Feds Made Sarah Palin Proof Here ,' Drudge stalker extraordinaire!

Sad thing about the intar'nets, your dysfunction is for all the world to see.

Posted by: weft cut-loop [/i] [/b] at June 13, 2012 04:21 PM (famk3)

92 39 re 32: nicely put, Sefton

Posted by: mallfly at June 13, 2012 08:01 PM (mNv7n)

Mon dieu, at least give ze credit where eet is due.

Posted by: Voltaire at June 13, 2012 04:22 PM (708Gm)

93 what are they going to fight with? Sausages?

Posted by: jinx the cat at June 13, 2012 04:22 PM (8PLqc)

Posted by: Truman North, iPhone snob at June 13, 2012 08:11 PM (I2LwF)

Poland is doing quite well.

Posted by: somebody else, not me at June 13, 2012 04:24 PM (nZvGM)

95 Just know that should you warring nations want to deposit your ill-gotten gains somewhere for "safe keeping", our banks are open for business. And we are good at keeping secrets.

Posted by: Switzerland at June 13, 2012 04:24 PM (LK3ef)

96 ....nah.... I don't think there will be war. Europe has already de-militarized for the most part. They are too broke to build up again anytime soon. I do think there is a risk for a some dictatorship forming though ... or some form of long term anarchy

Posted by: SoCalMe at June 13, 2012 04:25 PM (s72/N)

97 Will the nations decide that protecting their borders from Islamic hoards, and the other great never-washed, has become too expensive? Will they decide that outward-looking defense is just too expensive to persue further. I wonder if these simplistic realities will be the deciding factor in their new economic doctrine? Let the Yankees do it! Perhaps that will be the new socialist battle cry. Ah, for just one opportunity to let them wallow in their own self-inflicted poison for a little while, to help them remember who always comes riding to the rescue. I say we should treat them pretty much like a Syria. Hands off Europe! (i am not angry and therefore should not be banned)

Posted by: And Irresolute at June 13, 2012 04:25 PM (RC3M9)

98 I think this has a good chance of endingin war.

..........doubt it, you need men to fight one.

1. The Irish were interviewed on NPR and they blame the Germans for the high tax the EU is requiring of them. They are in tax revolt with 40% refusing to pay.

.........the Germans will either let them get away with it, or back out of the Euro, which is what they should do.

2. When I was in the UK last week total strangers would start blaming theEU for their troubles, especially the French. These were people who volunteered their opinions when they heard my accent. I din't ask questions.

..........Since the EU was a con game to make the French feel like a superpower, this is ironic.

3. I heard Victor Davis Hanson on local talk radio today. He has been in Europe and said that the Germans and the other northern Europeans feel that they are being abused and taken advantage of. The fact that Germans retire at age 67 while the French just lowered their retirement age to 60 is not going over well. Also, the southern Europeans feel that they are being unfairly punished.

............that is what the EU is *for*. Let the Germans pay for French Government Workers in the EU ubergovernment.

4. And while all of this blaming and confusion goes on, to the east sits Putin, with a large warchest fromoil and gas and a ruthless streak which makes him look at reclaiming those countries that were lost back in the 90's.

............with all the troubles they have, I'm not sure what good this would do. The Russians already have poor people and trouble hanging on to those who didn't break away the last time.

I seriously think the Euro Cup could be the trigger for war. They already had a near riot between the Russians and the Poles.

...........given the usual Russian/Pole interaction the last thousand years or so, a 'near' riot is progress indeed.

Posted by: Miss Marple at June 13, 2012 08:15 PM (GoIUi)

Posted by: Oldcat at June 13, 2012 04:26 PM (z1N6a)

99 1 "And under the deal the Italians have to lend to the Spanish banks at 3 per cent but to get that money they have to borrow on the markets at 7 per cent. This, right there, explains the death of the Euro more succinctly than anything else." So let me guess. The 4 pt spread is being earned by a bank that's also getting bailed out? And around and around we go!

Posted by: Uncledave at June 13, 2012 04:27 PM (1qgTs)

100 They'll need an army first.

Posted by: Oldcat at June 13, 2012 08:19 PM (z1N6a)

Exactly. The Euros are neutered now. Regardless - the solution to a financial problem is not a war that destroys everyone's infrastructure. Nobody has any vested interest in armed conflict over this issue. War is not on the table. Hell - if the Eurotrash had the stones to fight, they would not be infested with muslim no-go zones in half the major cities. What will happen will be one of two things:

Thing 1: The Euros finally accept that you can't have a hard currency with a bunch of different governments all spending like they still run a fiat system. They'll do bail outs, restore some semblance of order, an kick the can down the road until they have to do exactly that same thing again.

Thing 2: The austere nations will pull out and begin the break up, and they'll go back to what they should never have abandoned - each nation will again be sovereign and print its own money.

Posted by: Reactionary at June 13, 2012 04:27 PM (jfeoD)

101 Well, there are enough lifeboats for us!

Posted by: Europe's Old Money And Politicians at June 13, 2012 04:27 PM (bxiXv)

102 I hate this formatting bullshit with a hot hot hate...

Posted by: Reactionary at June 13, 2012 04:28 PM (jfeoD)

103 they don't have the young people to send to any kind of meaningful fight--including within their own borders. Authoritarianism, though, that is already on its way. People put up with a lot when times are panicky.

Posted by: jinx the cat at June 13, 2012 04:28 PM (8PLqc)

104 94 Estonia is killing their old economic slump. 2nd on some lists of venture funding, right behind us. Rare earth metals don't hurt either of course.

Posted by: And Irresolute at June 13, 2012 04:29 PM (RC3M9)

105 You can bet that the "old money" has long been left the countries and moved into safe havens outside Europe.

Posted by: Vic at June 13, 2012 04:30 PM (YdQQY)

106

Oh. Shit.

You know, I have another feeling that this whole "global economy" thingy is another plan that is, as we used to say in the manufacturing biz, "designed to fail." Teh SCOAMF was pretty busy blaming all kinds of things like the tsunami for idling American production lines. On that one point, I do think he was right (self-flaggelation to follow). However, there is no good reason for us to be at the mercy of anyone else for our own prosperity.

I've been pushing this idea for a while and I'd really like to see it adopted: I'd like to see us become as self-sufficient as possible. I'm not advocating any type of isolationism (before anyone gets that jab in), I think that we could be making our own products with the resources we've been blessed with. This would insulate us from a lot of the turmoil going on in the world and regenerate our economy from within. We could always make enough to trade with, which is always a good thing.

We have the world's largest economy, yet we're not taking advantage of it. Of course, I feel we've been betrayed by the leftards in power who wanted to give all of our hard-earned prosperity to the rest of the world instead of them earning it themselves, so, yeah, I'm kinda biased.

Circling our wagons might be our only recourse.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 13, 2012 04:30 PM (d0Tfm)

107 Boned.

Posted by: that guy that always thinks we're boned at June 13, 2012 04:30 PM (QupBk)

108 It's a dreadfully long story, but basically the EU itself was a plan to team up student radicals, unions, leftists in general and career bureaucrats to turn Europe into Soviet Europe through incrementalism. It's just that Sovietism died before they could complete the goal. Same thing happened withe the above groups here. So, basically, they're all just Soviet Guided Missiles flying toward their unsuspecting targets (you and me and the peons in Europe) long after the launcher has been sold for scrap.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 13, 2012 04:31 PM (bxiXv)

109 102 What formatting should we use to do a Yoda voice? Hate leads to fear, fear leads to pudding, pudding leads to pie, pie leads to throwing ...

Posted by: And Irresolute at June 13, 2012 04:33 PM (RC3M9)

110 102 I hate this formatting bullshit with a hot hot hate... Posted by: Reactionary at June 13, 2012 08:28 PM (jfeoD) Using IE9? Wild guess. Search online for "IE9 compatibility mode" and look up how to set viewing compatibility mode back to version 8 or 7. Basically, once again MS ass-raped the standards and won't fix it until *at least* IE10. That *may* not be your problem, but for most of the people losing carrier returns, it is. It's not the blog, it's IE.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 13, 2012 04:33 PM (bxiXv)

111 Can we get Mr Farage to come to America, run for Congress as a Republican, and make him Speaker of the House?

Posted by: kbdabear at June 13, 2012 04:33 PM (Y+DPZ)

112 I've been pushing this idea for a while and I'd really like to see it adopted: I'd like to see us become as self-sufficient as possible. I'm not advocating any type of isolationism (before anyone gets that jab in), I think that we could be making our own products with the resources we've been blessed with. This would insulate us from a lot of the turmoil going on in the world and regenerate our economy from within. We could always make enough to trade with, which is always a good thing. Posted by: BackwardsBoy

Tonmu, have you discovered Juche?

Posted by: Zombie Kim Il-sung [/i] [/b] at June 13, 2012 04:34 PM (famk3)

113 56, Busty polish chicks ?

Posted by: JJean at June 13, 2012 04:35 PM (5HAgy)

114 #60 - Too funny!

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 13, 2012 04:36 PM (7qWDO)

115 The Winston Churchill (#11) and 12 Strangers Checkbook (#44) analogies are both awesome. I have been to Europe several dozen times, going back to the pre-euro days. The north / south split is real and deep. Germany and the Nordics are very frustrated with the Club Med nations. The French are spoiled brats. Multiculturalism is destroying the lot. The good news is that the former Warsaw Pact nations, for the most part, get it. Between their appreciation for economic freedom, earned the hard way, and the German work ethic, Europe will probably not collapse into total anarchy, but the PIIGS and the neo-Jacobins in France are in for a rude awakening and a generation of pain.

Posted by: Grumpy the Younger at June 13, 2012 04:36 PM (jts1f)

116 The New Dollar is coming. I just hope it has Reagan's face on it and not Barry's.

Posted by: toby928© at June 13, 2012 04:37 PM (QupBk)

117 Mero, yes an unholy allaince of gramscian scum, kgb funded fellow travellers, and rich old nazis who thought they could control the beaucrats.

Posted by: JJean at June 13, 2012 04:38 PM (5HAgy)

118 11356, Busty polish chicks ? ... We call that thong tightener down here.

Posted by: And Irresolute at June 13, 2012 04:38 PM (RC3M9)

119 The good news is that the former Warsaw Pact nations, for the most part, get it. Between their appreciation for economic freedom, earned the hard way, and the German work ethic, Europe will probably not collapse into total anarchy, but the PIIGS and the neo-Jacobins in France are in for a rude awakening and a generation of pain.

Posted by: Grumpy the Younger at June 13, 2012 08:36 PM (jts1f)

The Germans will have to get over their war guilt and become responsible adults first. I don't think the Med and France will feel bad about making them foot the bill any time soon.

Posted by: Oldcat at June 13, 2012 04:38 PM (z1N6a)

120

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at June 13, 2012 08:33 PM (bxiXv)

Ahhhh... gotcha. It must be I.E. Thanks for the explanation.

Posted by: Reactionary at June 13, 2012 04:41 PM (jfeoD)

121 I almost forgot to mention precious bodily fluids today. Whew, that was close, seeing as how it is almost on the half-hour and I will be able to open the door soon and go outside and smoke, not to mention open the fridge to get more ice.

Posted by: And Irresolute at June 13, 2012 04:41 PM (RC3M9)

122 My thoughts on a catalyst to really kivk things off, is if Russia demands real currency for gas.

Posted by: JJean at June 13, 2012 04:44 PM (5HAgy)

123 #79 - Well,wouldn't that be the icing on the cake?

Posted by: bicentennialguy at June 13, 2012 04:44 PM (7qWDO)

124 Look, you guys, if you do decide to fight it out again, at least have the sense not to invade me in the winter time. Otherwise I might just have to go all Soviet on your asses again.

Posted by: Russia at June 13, 2012 04:48 PM (LK3ef)

Posted by: wytshus at June 13, 2012 04:49 PM (4tcuE)

126 The way to protect us from the break up of the euro zone is simple ... Drill baby drill, drill here, drill now, frack baby frack, frack here, frack now. Cheap abundant energy will release the entrepreneurs to rampage across the land, leaving high paying jobs in their wake. We are at war with the banksters and the crony capitalists but they will be powerless to oppress and exploit free people armed with abundant energy.

Posted by: Grumpy the Younger at June 13, 2012 04:50 PM (jts1f)

127 Every time France comes up with some cockamamie scheme to contain the Germans and make themselves economic masters of Europe, it always manages to blow up in their faces. This will be no different.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica Sanitation Department at June 13, 2012 04:50 PM (Fs7RJ)

128 127 Bingo Grumpy!

Posted by: wierd flunky at June 13, 2012 04:52 PM (tlhtD)

129 56 47 One problem facing us from this BB is a HUGE amount of this debt is owed to US banks i.e. bond holders. This debt cannot be repaid with anything resembling real money. Posted by: wierd flunky at June 13, 2012 08:08 PM (tlhtD) How about with some demented lesbian porn?

Posted by: CoolCzech at June 13, 2012 04:55 PM (niZvt)

130 The Germans will have to get over their war guilt and become responsible adults first. I don't think the Med and France will feel bad about making them foot the bill any time soon. Posted by: Oldcat at June 13, 2012 08:38 PM (z1N6a) I don't think the Germans will pay and the euro zone will either break up or be restructured into some sort of two tiered system. The PIIGS are in for it no matter what, they have gone too far into debt with insufficient natural resources to exploit and a culture too far gone to sloth. France does not HAVE to follow the PIIGS into the ditch, but they seem hell-bent on doing it anyway. I predict a royal mess over there, but I doubt it will take the historical route into massive wars because they have demilitarized themselves so far that they simply are incapable of mounting anything significant.

Posted by: Grumpy the Younger at June 13, 2012 05:00 PM (jts1f)

131 96 ....nah.... I don't think there will be war. Europe has already de-militarized for the most part. They are too broke to build up again anytime soon. I do think there is a risk for a some dictatorship forming though ... or some form of long term anarchy Posted by: SoCalMe at June 13, 2012 08:25 PM (s72/N) Anarchy and a more blatant fascism will be the first step. THEN they will be invaded by Russia or armed Islamic forces.

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 13, 2012 05:02 PM (EmK13)

132 This all could have been avoided if Ray Gun would have just kept his mouth shut. But Nyet! We had a good thing going together with MAD and proxy wars and now look at the mess it all is.

Posted by: Zombie Soviet Union at June 13, 2012 05:05 PM (ujZ5D)

133 Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this crappy economic system.

Posted by: Roy at June 13, 2012 05:06 PM (tiOTz)

134 Euro Collapse Leads to More Opportunities for Funemployment Among European Youth

Posted by: NPR Headline Writers at June 13, 2012 05:08 PM (LK3ef)

135 It's the non-nuclear version of the MAD protocol.

(no not What Me Worry although it seems that way)

No I mean MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION.

Cause that's where it seems they're headed.

This is fun. We're swirling around the bowl behind them and get to watch them go down the tubes first.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE blup glup bloop

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at June 13, 2012 05:24 PM (CP+yl)

136

Remember Creditanstalt. That was a big European bank that went belly up and started the second wave of Great Depression 1.0 in the '30s. The first wave started here, with the stock market crash of '29. After that, there was talk of green shoots, recovery, and good times just around the corner. Then came Creditanstalt.

The EU collapse is Creditanstalt of Great Depression 2.0. Europe has no libertarian streak -- right and left are just different strains of statism. This collapse is subjecting them to a polarizing field which will repeat the theme of the '30s: fascists vs. communists, one stripe of totalitarian vs another.

This time around though, we've got Islamic fascism thrown in the mix. Who knows, in 10 years, once again American kids may be spilling their guts out storming some beach to liberate Europe from whatever totalitarian flavor wins out this time.

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at June 13, 2012 05:25 PM (VVB18)

137 Anarchy and a more blatant fascism will be the first step. THEN they will be invaded by Russia or armed Islamic forces. Posted by: The Political Hat at June 13, 2012 09:02 PM (EmK13) My comment about war related to intra-European conflicts. Regarding your comment, I cannot think of an Islamic army competent enough to invade and occupy Europe or even a decent chunk, but I do acknowledge that a revanchist Russia could be a serious threat to European security. Given our NATO treaty obligations we would be faced with fighting a massive land war or betraying our allies only to let yet another evil empire grow until it threatens us directly. I wonder what the ChiComs would do in that scenario? Let us hope that Putin "loves his children too" and does not return us to the MAD MAD MAD world of my cold war youth.

Posted by: Grumpy the Younger at June 13, 2012 05:25 PM (jts1f)

138 In the upcoming economic change, you'll be able to keep whatever currency you currently possess.

You'll need the paper.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at June 13, 2012 05:27 PM (CP+yl)

139 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at June 13, 2012 05:35 PM (Xb3hu)

140 Look at it this way: the Russians sweep into Europe and seize power.

And we sit back and say "Na Zdrovia Comrade" and divvy up Europe.

It's a win win.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at June 13, 2012 05:36 PM (CP+yl)

141 Ever read the CoDominion stories by Jerry Pournelle? I thought that path had been averted. I must go back and read "The Prince" again. John Christian Falkenberg III had great adventures but nothing I would want my grandkids to live through. I recommend this collection highly for those who want to learn some of the great political lessons in history without having to actually study.

Posted by: Grumpy the Younger at June 13, 2012 05:43 PM (jts1f)

142 What I love is all the clueless Eurocrats watching him, openmouthed, like drowning guppies.

Posted by: TexasJew at June 13, 2012 07:07 PM (z8HSj)

143 141Look at it this way: the Russians sweep into Europe and seize power.

And we sit back and say "Na Zdrovia Comrade" and divvy up Europe.

It's a win win.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and all that at June 13, 2012 09:36 PM (CP+yl)

What is there in Europe we want? We already have enough problems with an entitlement culture amongst the population. Let's not add people who are completely submerged in it to the mix.

Maybe the oil fields in the north sea?

I've got this sinking feeling we're going to be in Europe yet again....

Posted by: blindside at June 13, 2012 07:17 PM (ajjwb)

144 We need to disband NATO and get the hell out now. We do not need all those bases, and there's just no way we need to have an alliance in Europe any longer. Let them rot. Get us out, before the shooting starts because this time its going to be a war of tards.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 13, 2012 08:44 PM (r4wIV)

145

==That *may* not be your problem, but for most of the people losing carrier returns, it is. It's not the blog, it's IE.~Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith==

That would be a good answer if the problem happens on all the other blogs. Does it happen on all the other blogs you visit, Reactionary? Because, for me, it only happens here.

Posted by: Speller at June 13, 2012 09:42 PM (J74Py)

146 Does it happen on all the other blogs you visit, Reactionary? Because, for me, it only happens here.

Posted by: Speller at June 14, 2012 01:42 AM (J74Py)

Nope. Just here.

Posted by: Reactionary at June 14, 2012 03:50 AM (xUM1Q)

147 111 Can we get Mr Farage to come to America, run for Congress as a Republican, and make him Speaker of the House?

-----------------------------------

Now that we are ignoring the natural born citizen requirement, let's just make him president.

Posted by: edj at June 14, 2012 05:30 AM (+QKfp)

148 Ehhh ... The America Titanic has hit an iceberg .. and the captain want to back up and try hitting it again.

Posted by: Kristopher at June 14, 2012 11:23 AM (0aV2C)

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