1 rick santorum 2012

2

What if we did abortions IN SPACE?

NOW how much are you willing to pay, Malor?

3 Space elevator or bust!

4 You mad bro?

5 Yeah let's nominate him!

6 Daddy!  I want to go to Mars!

Fuck you.  We can't afford it.

7 Hey, is this a first?  Malor double-posting ACE, as opposed to Ace doubling up one of the other cob-loggers?

Good to hear from ya, Gabe.  Seems like it's been awhile. 

8 Can't you use the comments like everyone else?

9 I disagree. The point of space exploration is not moral boosterism, but rather to expand the reach of mankind.

10 This is not a double post. It's a rebuttal. Or an enhancement. Or something like that.

11 3 Space elevator or bust!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 25, 2012 08:17 PM (/jOyr)

That's what I'm saying. If we're gonna go bust anyway, might as well make a run at something cool!

12 What the hell is wrong with Tang that has you worked up, Gabe?

13 I like Newt's passion, but this is a bit too much.  I mean, find something else to be your legacy, m'kay?

14 Hey Magellan, go fuck yourself!

15 Finally, a reasonable position on this nonsense.

Gabe FTW

16 Jeez, you take Newt's blather more seriously than Newt does.

Funny.

17 sucking up to FL space industry. Sucking up is what newt does best.

18 It could be used as a ruse to weaponize space.

Everybody else is doing it. Why shouldn't we?

19 I wish NASA was less focused on science missions and more on engineering feats.

20 Most idiotic post ever on this site.

Deterioration.

21 Commie.

22 >>The point of space exploration is not moral boosterism, but rather to expand the reach of mankind.

That's pretty.  But mankind's reach exceeds its fiscal grasp, in this case.  Tell the taxpayer his rates must increase, in order to expand man's reach.  Good luck.

23

And it eventually gave us Tang and that weird freeze-dried astronaut icecream stuff.

*ahem*

24 Since we are deficit spending $188 million an hour, this is total BS.

It was BS when Bush 43 said it too.

Stocking up on precious metal- lead.

25 I wish NASA was less focused on science missions and more on engineering feats.

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 25, 2012 08:22 PM (2YIVk)

Its been a generation since NASA was focused on anything.

26 Going in to space will only antagonize Xenu.

27 Just when we were getting going on a Pawn Stars/ American Pickers discussion.

28 Fucking Newt.  If he wins the nomination, we might see electoral sodomy the likes of McGovern '72 or Mondale '84. 

29 Want inspiring? Get rid of the IRS. Now that's visionary, you punk kids

30 The point of space exploration is not moral boosterism, but rather to expand the reach of mankind.

Yup.  The future of humanity is in space.

Although, I'm pretty firmly in the "we can't afford it right now" camp.

31 Controlling space is a matter of national security.  Period.

That's why the money spent on our space exploration (back when it WAS exploration and not the PC bullshit it turned into) returned marketable products and inventions.  Because defense spending is the only government spending that ever actually returns anything of value.  It's always been that way and for anyone with a lick of sense will always be that way.  Other than that, government spending is a black hole.

Control of space, as control of the oceans has been, will be the key to the future security and freedom to conduct business of Americans.

This ain't rocket science ... er ...

32 Just when we were getting going on a Pawn Stars/ American Pickers discussion.

Posted by: ErikW at January 25, 2012 08:23 PM (oIcB

Danielle.  Wouldya?

33 Fucking Newt. If he wins the nomination, we might see electoral sodomy the likes of McGovern '72 or Mondale '84.

Posted by: Ombudsman at January 25, 2012 08:23 PM (AxHOT)

You mean us winning 49 states?

Cool.

34
the first space race was really to develop rocketry, so we could bomb the crap out of people.  this moonbase nonsense has no redeeming value such as that.

35 Certainly, though, space exploration could help create jobs. It would be nice if space money could be spent in the private sector instead of the money hole that is the federal govmtn.

36

Gingrich is a stupid old blathering twat who failed to get tenure at a glorified local community college.

37 We could spend a fraction of total space budget looking under-the-sea. We actually have medicines & treatments derived from things we've found there. It's largely unexplored. Now lets get to work!

38 >>>*ahem*

Posted by: transistors at January 25, 2012 08:22 PM (3SvjA)

 
WRONG! The space race did not give us transistors. Try again.

39 Well, we're never going to colonize the universe with that kind of attitude, Gabe.

Posted by: runninrebel at January 25, 2012 08:25 PM (N/1Dm)

First research is on those short. metallic skirts the girls wear in the future.

40 And BTW, Tang was invented by General Foods in 1957 and wasn't used by NASA until five years later.

41 I, for one, welcome our new Earthling overlords.

42 NASA gave us hot crazy diapered murderous astronautettes with great big twin moons driving cross country armed with knives to catfights for a chance to mate with Earthling males. Money well spent.

43 But what would the American economy be like without the commercialization of Tang?

44

Greetings,

  There are things there - oxygen, hydrogen (water) and other minerals in the 'soil'.  Obviously, water and hydrogen could be used to fuel rockets for further exploration.  This fuel would be less expensive to place in orbit around the moon rather than shipping the mass from earth to orbit (not to mention, once we literally take oxygen and hydrogen of the ecosystem, these items are really gone).

  The moon is a natural stepping stone to the deeper solar system.

  Now, whether this should be a government project or one for private interprise is a valid question.  I would vote for private enterprise.  However, (as I understand it) the current space treaty does not allow any government or other entity to claim ownership of a planet, moon or asteroid - or portions thereof.  So, what is the incentive for private industry to explore and develop?

45 I was kind of hoping that Newt would push NASA to re-focus on their original mission, muslim outreach. They seem to be spending much of their attention and money sending their remote controlled Tonka toys into space.

46 And BTW, Tang was invented by General Foods in 1957 and wasn't used by NASA until five years later.

Posted by: ErikW at January 25, 2012 08:26 PM (oIcB

Then Gabe owes Tang, and all powdered drinks, an apology.

47 WRONG! The space race did not give us transistors. Try again.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 25, 2012 08:26 PM (I2U+E)

Cellphones? Advanced ceramics and composites?  Blog formatting?

48 "Danielle. Wouldya?

Posted by: Ombudsman at January 25, 2012 08:24 PM (AxHOT)"

Oh hells yes.

49 Actually there is quite a bit of titanium. But like solar cells not enough return to make it really worth it. But we could send politicians to the moon. really. Send the pols to the moon.

50 And BTW, Tang was invented by General Foods in 1957 and wasn't used by NASA until five years later.

Posted by: ErikW at January 25, 2012 08:26 PM (oIcB

And, sad to say, it did taste like shit.

51 But what would the American economy be like without the commercialization of Tang?

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 25, 2012 08:27 PM (i3+c5)

Not the country we know and love, that's for sure.

52 sorry we forgot that the official Gabe Malor position on space exploration had been officially stated. (and on the very blog!)

Even more sorry that some might still have questions about whether they agree with you.

Real fucking classy by the way calling anyone who doesn't (including the owner of the site) a 10 year old -- especially when you;re probably one of the youngest cobs.

53 13 I like Newt's passion, but this is a bit too much. I mean, find something else to be yourlegacy, m'kay?

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at January 25, 2012 08:20 PM (0xqzf)

 

Agreed. How about gutting the federal government and giving the taxpayers some room to breathe? 

Hahahhahahahahahahahhahhahaa... whew, I had myself going for a minute. 

54 I didn't think Gabe liked 'tang.

55 God provides us all answers, through prayer, so why do we need expensive government programs to figure shit out?

56 Houston, we have a catastrophic failure. 

A Stage I Newt implosion.

57 And, sad to say, it did taste like shit.

Posted by: really ... at January 25, 2012 08:28 PM (X3lox) 

But ORANGEY shit.

58 Hey Gabe, never go on cruise ship, you might fall off the end of the Earth.

59 It's called space because there's nothing there. We know far more about space than we know about the 3/4 of the earth that lies off our shores. The potential payback for undersea exploration far exceeds anything that we would possibly gain from space exploration.

60 Cellphones?

Posted by: StPatrick_TN at January 25, 2012 08:27 PM (lJJMb)

Frequency-hopping communications that makes cellphones possible was first developed for the WWII effort and patented by Hedy Lamar (the actress) and some dude.

61

WRONG!

 

Don't fuck with me, Sport. My cousins run your computer.

62 19 I wish NASA was less focused on science missions and more on engineering feats.

Posted by: Serious Cat at January 25, 2012 08:22 PM (2YIVk)

 

No worries. We're nowing focusing on making Muslims feel good about themselves. We'll help them weaponize space, that ought to boost their self-esteem.

63 If we colonize the moon, we can harvest the vast fields of moonajuana. We just have to watch out for the mooninites.

64 It's called space because there's nothing there. We know far more about space than we know about the 3/4 of the earth that lies off our shores. The potential payback for undersea exploration far exceeds anything that we would possibly gain from space exploration.

Posted by: Roy Lofquist at January 25, 2012 08:29 PM (mahEK)

It already gave us Sealab 2020 AND 2021.  It is tapped out.

65 "A desire to adore a head of state is a grim transgression against republicanism. It is worse than having a head of state who demands to be adored. It is worse even than the forced adoration of the state itselfÂ… There are some 230 million of us and weÂ’d better start talking sense to ourselves soon. The President of the United States is our employee. The services he and his legislative cohorts contract for us are not gifts or benefices. We have to pay for every one of them, sometimes with our money, sometimes with our skins.

If we can remember this, we’ll get a good, dull Cincinnatus like Eisenhower or Coolidge. Our governance will be managed with quiet and economy. We’ll have no need to go looking for Kennedys to love. And no need to boil over with hatred for them later”...PJ O'Rourke

66 55 I didn't think Gabe liked 'tang.

Posted by: nickless at January 25, 2012 08:29 PM (MMC8r)

You shouldn't box people in like that.  He should be free to decide where he wants to slot himself.

67 I know one Bain Newt really likes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WZW4groJro

68

Velcro baby, and pens that write upside down!  Wooot!

69 Yeah that whole Moon thing was a huge boondoggle. Good thing we learned our lesson and we can continue our slow spiral into mediocrity. Gabe: space travel = forced abortions

70 Gingrich is a stupid old blathering twat who failed to get tenure at a glorified local community college.

Posted by: Mr. Wonderful at January 25, 2012 08:25 PM (Ha1Xm)

He's Bill Clinton.   Same unprincipled intellect, same epic narcissism, same rules-don't-apply womanizer.  (But women apparently considered Clinton attractive.  Gingrich is the Michelin Man with worse hair).  I wouldn't trust either of them to walk my dog

71 You see,Newt is just not presidential material.He's a dreamer not an executive.It's so obvious.The only reason he is being seriously considered is that nobody likes Romney.

72 Space, the final frontier...without the slide rule this time. Could be fun except for that pesky EPA. All spaceships will have to made from recycled diapers. Maybe they will hold up..............and maybe they won't! Whoever said it was safe?

73 The moon landing was fake.

74 We could spend a fraction of total space budget looking under-the-sea. We actually have medicines & treatments derived from things we've found there. It's largely unexplored. Now lets get to work!

 Posted by: Wrella at January 25, 2012 08:25 PM (bX/2u)

The undersea environment is actually harsher than the space environment, but it is here close at hand, can readily be explored with robotics, has tremendous immediate (or at least relatively short-term) payoffs, and could be funded by private capital.  So let's ignore the gift seahorse in the room and go for the stars!

75 You see,Newt is just not presidential material.He's a dreamer not an executive.It's so obvious.The only reason he is being seriously considered is that nobody likes Romney.

Posted by: steevy at January 25, 2012 08:32 PM (7W3wI)

At least he's amusing every now and then, if you still have a sense of humor.

76 55 I didn't think Gabe liked 'tang.

Posted by: nickless at January 25, 2012 08:29 PM (MMC8r)

 

I lol'd hard.

77 Romney fits the "good dull Cincinnatus" description perfectly...

78 The moon missions gave us the Omega Speedmaster Professional watch (aka the "first watch worn on the moon"). Which is what I'm wearing right now.

79 Romney fits the "good dull Cincinnatus" description perfectly...

Posted by: packsoldier at January 25, 2012 08:33 PM (MVPJc)

Cincinnatus won his campaigns.

80

I'd put in a link to the Portal 2 Space personality core, but I'm too lazy. I'll see if I can find an illegal alien that would do it for me.

But then, I'm too lazy to go looking for an illegal alien, so fuck it.

81 Jesus Gabe. Shortsighted much? Leave aside the spinoffs. Leave aside the need to get humans out of one single egg basket. Space exploration has military benefits, scientific benefits, and, if privatized, will have economic benefits. Plus it would be best to go to Alpha Centauri and fuck their women instead of the other way around. Foresight, dude.

82 55 I didn't think Gabe liked 'tang.

Posted by: nickless at January 25, 2012 08:29 PM (MMC8r)

Thread winner

83 If NASA is now an outreach to Muslims, can we agree a good use of funds would be to put them on the moon?

Win-Win.

84 I'd vote for a syphylis spirochetes before I'd vote for that fucking Gingrich.

85 Star gazing, naval gazing, same shit I guess.

86 79 Romney fits the "good dull Cincinnatus" description perfectly...

Posted by: packsoldier at January 25, 2012 08:33 PM (MVPJc)

NASA should figure out how to dig up Coolidge and reanimate him.

87 The undersea environment is actually harsher than the space environment, but it is here close at hand, can readily be explored with robotics, has tremendous immediate (or at least relatively short-term) payoffs, and could be funded by private capital. So let's ignore the gift seahorse in the room and go for the stars!

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 25, 2012 08:33 PM (i3+c5)

We can't, it might hurt the sea kittens.

88 And, sad to say, it did taste like shit.


Posted by: really ... at January 25, 2012 08:28 PM (X3lox)

But ORANGEY shit.

Posted by: Oldcat at January 25, 2012 08:29 PM (z1N6a)

But it's a great source of Vitamin C!

89 We're also focused on fixing the global warming caused by you carbon dioxide-spewing, rightwing nuts.

90 Jesus Gabe. Shortsighted much? Leave aside the spinoffs. Leave aside the need to get humans out of one single egg basket. Space exploration has military benefits, scientific benefits, and, if privatized, will have economic benefits. Plus it would be best to go to Alpha Centauri and fuck their women instead of the other way around. Foresight, dude.

Posted by: joncelli at January 25, 2012 08:34 PM (+MbqG)

Plus name one other government program besides the Military that has produced any benefits at all at the cost the space program did.  Not easy.

91 Love the naivete, Gabe.

The Chinese will have absolutely no pangs of conscience about sezing the high ground because some are enamored of the bullshit private model of space policy. 

Yeah, NASA needs a total makeover and we need to encourage commercial use....BUT in national strategic terms, we have to have a robust American presence in space that allows us to fight and win our wars there, too.  We're not going to have the national capacity to do so without the involvement of the federal government and the taxpayer.  There are a few things the federal government can play a positive role in and this is one of them.

92 we have NASA to thank for memory foam

93 >> There are a few things the federal government can play a positive role in and this is one of them.

Too bad we're broke, eh?

94 If NASA is now an outreach to Muslims, can we agree a good use of funds would be to put them on the moon?

I like putting them in orbit and watching them have to kiss the ground every 18 minutes.  Keep them up there for a few days and they eat the toilets.

95 Gabe and I love Jeebus, and the rest of you are going to hell.

96 Space is interesting, as is deep-sea exploration.  Might I politely suggest we find local ways to power our vehicles first, that don't involve sending billions of dollars to people who want us converted or put to the sword?  I know it's crazy talk, but I thought I'd put it out there.

97

If NASA is now an outreach to Muslims, can we agree a good use of funds would be to put them on the moon?

Win-Win.

Posted by: Tami - Free Jane D'oh! at January 25, 2012 08:34 PM (X6akg)

Think we need a joint public private effort to do that as quickly as possible.  I think we could get a  lot of citizen involvement.

98

The sea? Really, and who is going to let us do that? The EPA? The environmentalists? Maybe the Brazilians? Who? They would wet their panties in a collective ofucknugget type brewerfit. Not happening until they get hungry.

And do these people ever get hungry, I mean other than Michael Moore and Rosy? Don't they all eat "raw" or "paleo"?

99 When we first put a man on the moon we weren't drowning in debt.

100 i always knew Gabe was an America hating commie pinko liberal...

no wonder he moved back to DC.

%-)

101 I agree that we can't afford a major space initiative right now, and that robotic probes are where it's at in the future.

But why is it that anti-space-exploration types always come across like crotchety old geezers with no imagination and no sense of human accomplishment?

Going to the moon was no big deal? Then what the fuck ever was???

102 Hmmm, I wonder if maybe there are some other issues he could be talking about instead, like maybe the EFFING ECONOMY!  Are there 1,000 people in America who will base their vote on the Space Program?

103 When we first put a man on the moon we weren't drowning in debt.

Posted by: steevy at January 25, 2012 08:38 PM (7W3wI)

Sure we were.

We just have changed the definition of drowning.

104 Some day, some day, BANG! ZOOM! STRAIGHT TO THE MOON!

105 theres nothin on the moon, mars, venus, etc...except understanding how those planets were made up.

the emptiness of the universe and its celestial bodies is a reminder that were in fact, ALONE. it also serves as God's 'blueprint' on how to create a living world, like earfffff.

there i said it, i win.

106 I agree that we can't afford a major space initiative right now, and that robotic probes are where it's at in the future.

But why is it that anti-space-exploration types always come across like crotchety old geezers with no imagination and no sense of human accomplishment?

Going to the moon was no big deal? Then what the fuck ever was???

Posted by: Jason at January 25, 2012 08:38 PM (6VB4r)

Because they are?

107 OT:  Cee-lo Green "Forget You" parody, "Vote for Newt":

http://tinyurl.com/6uj7aa2

Put the politics aside, this is a great parody.  Warning, there's a shot around 3:07 that once seen, cannot be unseen...

108 Explore the New World? What the hell for? Nothing there but a bunch of trees and Indians that talk stupid!

109
And it eventually gave us Tang and that weird freeze-dried astronaut icecream stuff. Which is very cool and all, but I suggest to you that neither represents a GREAT WORK in the history of mankind that we would be worse off for not having.
-----------

Ever hear of Teflon, Gabe?

Privately invented, however, without the gubmint it would now be just another obscure compound in the history of chemistry.

The problem isn't with the Government funding some pure science research -- it's when it becomes agenda driven by political tools in government agencies like the NSF.

I'd like for us to weaponize space because every other capable country is doing it. We're not gonna get there via space tourism.

110

Posted by: StPatrick_TN at January 25, 2012 08:37 PM (lJJMb)

Why do I immediately think of off-shore drilling for oil!

Nah that technology is just too hard, lets go to the moon!

111 Three words:  Military. High. Ground.

112 God does not want us reaching to the heavens, except it death...

113 For crying out loud, Tang was not a product of the space program in any way shape or form. Damned few products owe their existence to the space program, contrary to NASA propaganda.

The original procurement request for Tang came during WWII. a satisfactory product was delivered in the 50s and used by the military. That NASA put it in use for space excursions was used as a huge PR ploy but it was an existing product long before Sputnik.

114 97 Gabe and I love Jeebus, and the rest of you are going to hell.

Posted by: Stupids at January 25, 2012 08:37 PM (1TH31)

We'll keep Gabe - you, we don't need or want.

115 Buzz,

They all live in Cocoa and Titusville.

116

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 25, 2012 08:33 PM (i3+c5)

This, big time. We know next to nothing about what's in our oceans. We pretend that we do but we don't. Our planet is a bounty for the betterment of us but we let suicidal assholes on the left dictate what we can and can't do. Fuck them. Harvest our lands and our oceans, it's all renewable, probably in ways that we can't comprehend yet.

117 68 55 I didn't think Gabe liked 'tang. Posted by: nickless at January 25, 2012 08:29 PM (MMC8r) You shouldn't box people in like that. He should be free to decide where he wants to slot himself. Posted by: StPatrick_TN at January 25, 2012 08:31 PM (lJJMb) Yes, you shouldn't snatch his freedom of choice like that.

118 No one in the race is proposing to get rid of NASA. So if you're going to be spending money on NASA, then you can at least look to see if there are better goals, and more efficient ways to operate than the status quo. I have no idea if Newt has a well-reasoned plan to do that (I kinda doubt it, but I haven't read any details of what he's proposed yet), but to say we shouldn't even talk about it is ridiculous.

Listen to the last five minutes or so of Jeff Greason's TED talk if you're looking for a compelling reason to try to open up space.

119 WD-40.

120

"We've been to the Savannah. There's nothing there. There was nothing there then and there's still nothing there except the garbage we left behind the first times we were there."

 

A Silverback Mountain Gorilla, circa 10,000,000 years BC

 

"We've been to the Land. There's nothing there. There was nothing there then and there's still nothing there except the garbage we left behind the first times we were there."

 

An unidentified amphibious creature, circa 150,000,000 years BC

121

100% agree. Any money spent on space travel is utterly and completely wasted.

We'd be better off paying NASA scientists to build houses for the poor.

Or taking the money and burning it to make electricity.

 

122 For crying out loud, Tang was not a product of the space program in any way shape or form. Damned few products owe their existence to the space program, contrary to NASA propaganda.

The original procurement request for Tang came during WWII. a satisfactory product was delivered in the 50s and used by the military. That NASA put it in use for space excursions was used as a huge PR ploy but it was an existing product long before Sputnik.

Posted by: epobirs at January 25, 2012 08:41 PM (kcfmt)

I think you need to look up the definition of the word 'joke' , epo old buddy.

123 Too bad we're broke, eh?

Posted by: Andy at January 25, 2012 08:37 PM (XG+Mn)

There is a way to claw our way back after we adjust our national jockstrap--it will be painful in the short-term--particularly to the Democratic base, but we can get where we need to go.  Drill, nukes, new grid, actual health care reform, means testing of Medicare and SS will help, too.  Oh, and hack capital gains for everything except the kind of pure paper shit that George Soros has always done.

I'll just be a complete heretic here and point out that hogwild space and defense spending is actual stimulus as opposed to the imaginary version we've recently been forced to accept.

It all has to go together, but it would work.

124 This, big time. We know next to nothing about what's in our oceans. We pretend that we do but we don't. Our planet is a bounty for the betterment of us but we let suicidal assholes on the left dictate what we can and can't do. Fuck them. Harvest our lands and our oceans, it's all renewable, probably in ways that we can't comprehend yet.

Posted by: ErikW at January 25, 2012 08:42 PM (oIcB

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess 'salt water'

125 What about those chocolate-y space sticks or whatever they were called?

126 Oh yeah, I forgot links don't work.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8PlzDgFQMM

127 Oh I agree Gabe; cowboy poetry is is a much higher priority these days. Those Vagina Monologues aren't just going to write themselves.
 
Now go fetch your fucking shinebox.

128 Remember in the old days when a post wanted to mock something they were amusing instead of shrill and hectoring?

129

At some point in time there was nothing across that river, that mountain, that ocean, that wide open spaces until someone went. Exploration and discovery sometimes took government support because governments were the only ones financially capable of support.

The willingness to do so enriched not only the powers that be, but also their citizens and culture.

130 Harvest our lands and our oceans, it's all renewable, probably in ways that we can't comprehend yet.

Posted by: ErikW at January 25, 2012 08:42 PM (oIcB

I tend to agree, but think we can be overachievers.  

The ingenuity of man in building factory ships has definitely screwed up the fishing industry, and the quantity of fish available.  Men that once made a decent living off Newfoundland waters, now find that the cost of the gasoline to reach the fishing areas is more than the sale price of what they can catch.

131 What's more difficult, fixing the country's finances or building a moon base?

132 Well I tend to agree with the "we can't afford it even if it is a good idea" crowd.

But there is one strategic reason to consider it nonetheless: it's to beat Google to the punch.

http://tinyurl.com/7m8ywth

Yes.  Google is developing a space elevator.  So as to spy on you from geostationary orbit 100 mi above the earth, or something.

133 126 Too bad we're broke, eh?

Posted by: Andy at January 25, 2012 08:37 PM (XG+Mn)
There is a way to claw our way back after we adjust our national jockstrap--it will be painful in the short-term--particularly to the Democratic base, but we can get where we need to go. Drill, nukes, new grid, actual health care reform, means testing of Medicare and SS will help, too. Oh, and hack capital gains for everything except the kind of pure paper shit that George Soros has always done.I'll just be a complete heretic here and point out that hogwild space and defense spending is actual stimulus as opposed to the imaginary version we've recently been forced to accept.It all has to go together, but it would work.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at January 25, 2012 08:43 PM (7utQ2)

You sound like you'd be interested in my platform, the loftiest platform ever proposed!

And if that doesn't convince you, I'll consider my popular opponent The Meteor for DefSec.

134 " On-demand abortion. No, there's no reason taxpayers should be paying for that either."

Derp!

135 Striving for great things and achieving the unachievable is no way to build a great country.

136 You sound like you'd be interested in my platform, the loftiest platform ever proposed!
And if that doesn't convince you, I'll consider my popular opponent The Meteor for DefSec.

Posted by: mugiwara/Space Elevator 2012! at January 25, 2012 08:48 PM (KI/Ch)

Don't be fooled - he was born in Equador! Fight the equatoral power!

137 Imperialist WarMongers! Space is for innocent rocks.

138 To those saying we shouldn't do space development because there are unexplored ocean depths: Don't be an idiot.

The two fields are complementary. Technologies advanced in one are usually applicable to the other. The idea that it is a binary choice is just dumb. In an America with its head on straight we will do both.

139 And we shouldn't be starting in with the starry-eyed romanticism about the beauty of space exploration.

That is what leads us to big-government conservatism.

140 Yes. Google is developing a space elevator. So as to spy on you from geostationary orbit 100 mi above the earth, or something.
Posted by: chemjeff

The first one up and running will stop all others. The price of lift can be raised or lowered to knock out competitors.

141 To those saying we shouldn't do space development because there are unexplored ocean depths: Don't be an idiot.

The two fields are complementary. Technologies advanced in one are usually applicable to the other. The idea that it is a binary choice is just dumb. In an America with its head on straight we will do both.

Posted by: epobirs at January 25, 2012 08:50 PM (kcfmt)

Get to work on the Ocean Elevator, stat!

142
You people can't be serious, we can't afford to buy a moon bouncer for a birthday party and this is the hill you will die on.  The moon is not going anywhere, it'll be there for your great grandchildren to explore, if we save this nation first.  Otherwise all bets are off.

143 We can't t go back to the Moon. In the sixties we had slide rules, short sleeved shirts with ties, and crew cuts, lots of crew cuts. We just don't have that technology any more.

144 That's generally the argument when owning a moonbase and pointing weapons around space is considered.

145 134 What's more difficult, fixing the country's finances or building a moon base?

Posted by: Andy at January 25, 2012 08:47 PM (XG+Mn)

Are we trying before or after a Democrat mass-suicide?

146 The first one up and running will stop all others. The price of lift can be raised or lowered to knock out competitors.

Posted by: King Charles I at January 25, 2012 08:50 PM (/jOyr)

Not if we put a missile into the other one it can't.

147 BTW Romney as Cincinnatus? More like Spurius Albinus or Titus Calvinus, what with all the "but he had no choice....he had to sign off on Romneycare...." crap.

148 I'm not dying on any Bouncy House hill. It's just that I was told, in first grade, that the age of exploration was past, and that this was a the space age. There was a chart and everything.

149 146 We can't t go back to the Moon. In the sixties we had slide rules, short sleeved shirts with ties, and crew cuts, lots of crew cuts. We just don't have that technology any more.

Posted by: nickless at January 25, 2012 08:50 PM (MMC8r)

Actually I think I read somewhere that NASA actually lost the plans to the Saturn rockets.

150 I'm too stupid to post here

151 Have the government finance an expedition?

That's pure nonsense!

152 We can't t go back to the Moon. In the sixties we had slide rules, short sleeved shirts with ties, and crew cuts, lots of crew cuts. We just don't have that technology any more.

Posted by: nickless at January 25, 2012 08:50 PM (MMC8r)

We can develop an IPad App for slide rules.  From there, narrow ties is but a simple step.

153 Are we trying before or after a Democrat mass-suicide?

Posted by: mugiwara at January 25, 2012 08:51 PM (KI/Ch)

If I didn't have family who were sorely misguided...

154 So I don't mind thinking about it. I don't mind other people thinking about it. If there's some GOOD reason to do it, like owning the moon and pointing lasers from it... well nahh. There are no commies to point at any more. The commies are us, because we fell for that "if we can land on the moon we can provide for trillions of deadbeats for justice"

155 So I don't mind thinking about it. I don't mind other people thinking about it.

If there's some GOOD reason to do it, like owning the moon and pointing lasers from it... well nahh. There are no commies to point at any more. The commies are us, because we fell for that "if we can land on the moon we can provide for trillions of deadbeats for justice"

Posted by: SarahW at January 25, 2012 08:54 PM (LYwCh)

All the more reason to point nukes at the commies.

156 God told us to keep the heck away from the heavens or else?

Or else the 1970's would happen?

157 God told us to keep the heck away from the heavens or else?

Or else the 1970's would happen?

Posted by: Jason at January 25, 2012 08:55 PM (6VB4r)

The 70s were God's punishment for giving up.

158 God gave us trees so we could print green paper.

God told us to keep the heck away from the heavens or else.

Posted by: Stupids at January 25, 2012 08:53 PM (1TH31)

Not a fan of commercial aviation, eh?  We don't like it either, but sometimes folks have to get from A to B.

159 What's more difficult, fixing the country's finances or building a moon base?

Posted by: Andy at January 25, 2012 08:47 PM (XG+Mn)

Sadly, I don't think today's electorate has the character to  fix our country's finances.   We could have in the 40s and 50s; now, unless something changes, no way. 

There's no way can fix it, when the tax code is such that the 50% who don't pay taxes have no incentive to vote against benefits they are not paying for.

My campaign plank:  Everyone pays taxes.  We can argue about rates, but we aren't going to fix this until everyone has some skin in the game

160 Right at a time in history when we could become the absolute economic power and probably pay for that. We decide to glide down the slope to mediocrity slightly above and behind the others racing downhill to oblivion.

161

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 25, 2012 08:47 PM (i3+c5)

Good point. The fisheries are where they are because that's where the fish are.

162

It's very hard to describe space exploration, as a kid who grew up in the 60s.  Whose dad worked for Werner von Braun in Huntsville on the Apollo program in the 60s. 

I watched Mercury shots from my back yard in Satellite Beach FL before we moved to Huntsville.  It was a big fuckin deal.  It was fun, kicking commie ass and all.

 

But it's over now.  Let private enterprise pursue it.

163 The oceans have this little thing called crush depth.  The pressure difference between anywhere in space and sea level is one atmosphere (14.7 psi).  Sea exploration and colonization technologies will be a little different than those of space.

164 lets race toward Thorium Reactors.

165 Everyone really stampeded to the post about the movie awards?

166 "We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too. " ~ JFK

So as a followup to my prior comment, I believe fixing the fiscal clusterfuck is much more difficult than space exploration (been there, done that).

If Newt wants to accomplish something grand, THIS IS IT!

It's not sexy, and no one will ever build a monument to the Newton L. Gingrich Restored AAA Rating, but it's what we need to focus on damned near to the exclusion of everything else.

Space will still be there when we're done.

167 you want to buy an I-pod? And you haven't finished paying for that x-box yet. No way, children, will I let you buy more toys.

168 So as a followup to my prior comment, I believe fixing the fiscal clusterfuck is much more difficult than space exploration (been there, done that).

If Newt wants to accomplish something grand, THIS IS IT!

It's not sexy, and no one will ever build a monument to the Newton L. Gingrich Restored AAA Rating, but it's what we need to focus on damned near to the exclusion of everything else.

Space will still be there when we're done.

Posted by: Andy at January 25, 2012 09:03 PM (XG+Mn)

I'd speak of him in hushed tones, and place him in the pantheon of Goldwater, Buckley, and Reagan.  Monument?  No, but permanent place in history?  That's not possible, but until I'm gone, anyways, I'd not speak ill of him.

169 Let's see....how did we get people to expand across North America. Did we pay for all those Conestoga wagons?

Seems to me that we sent some folks to take a look around, published a report, and opened up large swatches to land grants.

Hmmmm......

170 The oceans have this little thing called crush depth. The pressure difference between anywhere in space and sea level is one atmosphere (14.7 psi). Sea exploration and colonization technologies will be a little different than those of space.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 25, 2012 09:02 PM (4q5tP)

The sea also is basically a corrosive bath under tremendous pressure.  It also is dark, so solar panels aren't much good for providing power at any level.

171 Yeah, I'm liking this abortion in space idea!
We also have yet to have a space murder! Or have we?

Space pot? Has anybody smoke pot -- in space?

We can fucking do this!

172 and no one will ever build a monument to the Newton L. Gingrich Restored AAA Rating, but it's what we need to focus on damned near to the exclusion of everything else.

Posted by: Andy at January 25, 2012 09:03 PM (XG+Mn)

The US will regain its AAA rating the minute the Indonesian is out.  After all, the only reason we got taht insane downgrade was because Barky threatened to bring the US to default, over and over and over.  Warren Butthead's Moody's first came in and tried to get on Barky's side for that debt-limit debate with the GOP, but even they realized that the debt-limit itself would have no effect on the US probability of default ... and Barky stupidly kept pushing his bright idea to threaten to burn every oil well in the US if the debt limit wasn't raised without any encumbrances.  So, Uncle Warren's Moody's racket sheepishly slinked off and S+P stupidly came charging in to take Barky up on his second act and actually downgrade the US on Barky's threats.

Sadly, the idiot GOP couldn't explain any of this to anyone, because they're retards and incorrigible farters.

173 Well the movie thread decided it for me. Good night. I'd rather watch reruns of diners, drivethroughs, and dives

174 Green cheese.

175 The sea also is basically a corrosive bath under tremendous pressure. It also is dark, so solar panels aren't much good for providing power at any level.

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 25, 2012 09:09 PM (i3+c5)

 

Fish nightlights.

176 I think it cost about 4% GDP a year for the Apollo program. So double to 8% GDP for a Mars shot. Yeah, so additional $1.2 trillion a year in Federal deficit spending would be just great at this point in our history.

177 Saturn Fuckin' Five, Gabe. Saturn. Fuckin'. Five.

178 Also, the gold.  We need to get the Moon gold.

179 shorter version

180 Also, the gold. We need to get the Moon gold.

 Posted by: rdbrewer at January 25, 2012 09:15 PM (Iyg03)

You mean the Jooos got there first?

181 If NASA isn't going to do anything spectacular, then abolish NASA. What good is NASA? A breeding ground for assholes like Mr. Globalwarmingprick.

182

Gaba, I'm afraid you're dead wrong on this one.  The spin off technology was greater than "incidental"; you're probably using some of it right now

All of my other arguments are in comment 296 in Ace's earlier thread.

My Regards

183 The oceans have this little thing called crush depth. The pressure difference between anywhere in space and sea level is one atmosphere (14.7 psi). Sea exploration and colonization technologies will be a little different than those of space.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 25, 2012 09:02 PM (4q5tP)

I understand that but I wasn't talking about colonizing Challenger Deep, I was talking about underwater mining and harvesting underwater vegetation. It's more realistic than mining the moon.

184 Gabe, the Moon has a metric s***pot full of He3. That will eventually become incredibly valuable for running aneutronic fusion reactors. I'd prefer that the US have a monopoly on this fuel source as opposed to Russia or China. Also, there is one thing in space: solar power by the gigajoule that can be beamed down via microwave. The receiver rig? It's basically chicken wire spread out over an acre or so. The beam's too weak to injure anyone, and you can grow crops under the chicken wire, no problem. Clean electricity, essentially free for the taking, for as long as we maintain the powersats (and a good deal afterwards, as well; this could help restore electrical generation in the event of a catastrophe). Unfortunately, private enterprise can't come up with enough scratch to fund this.

185 We didn`t land on the moon anyway, hollywood production, I`ve seen the pictures

186

between Mars and Earth is the asteroid belt made up of a smashed planet. That would imply there is planetary core materials in shards up there. Could there be superconductors in a planetary core? Hmm. I wonder...

But Thorium Reactors would be good to put money in too

187 runningrebel, I think you are lost or drunk or both.

188 I heard that idiot Palin said she could see the moon from her house.

189 There's apparently considerably more Helium-3 on the moon than on earth.  That alone makes it worth going.  Its why the Russians and Chinese are interested.

Helium-3 is what will power future fusion reactors.

190 All right ... It's Hippie Punchin' Time. Lemmee at 'im! Lemme at 'im!

191 We didn`t land on the moon anyway, hollywood production, I`ve seen the pictures 

 Posted by: rightlysouthern (aint drinking kool aid) at January 25, 2012 09:23 PM (p+v7+)

I know the guy that owns the warehouse where that was filmed!

192

The idea that we must have some culturally significant and symbolic government project to spur the next generation to new heights of blah blah blah is utter crap.

 

God love ya for saying this, which is absolutely true. Dicking around in space at great expense is pointless, but would be fun if we had money to burn. But then, lots of things would be fun if we had money to burn. But we don't.

193 Asteroid belt be between Mars and Jupiter, aint it?

194 Oh dear Lord. the article, headlined over at Drudge, turns my stomach. I was young, and don't remember it directly, but does anyone else?

195 There's apparently considerably more Helium-3 on the moon than on earth. That alone makes it worth going. Its why the Russians and Chinese are interested.

Helium-3 is what will power future fusion reactors.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 25, 2012 09:25 PM (0I4YH)

Apparently? Do we have a working fusion reactor that's running off of Helium-3 yet? C'mon.

196 What I, as a voter, am most interested in during these trying times is: What is Ron Paul's take on travel to Mars?

197 Apparently? Do we have a working fusion reactor that's running off of Helium-3 yet? C'mon.

But it's visionary!!!!!

198

I like Newt's passion, but this is a bit too much. I mean, find something else to be yourlegacy, m'kay?

----------

What, you mean like Universal Healthcare?

199 Well, you can't spend money you don't have, but the idea the space missions were some silly childish fantasy is a silly libertine childish fantasy.  The byproducts have improved life on earth in thousands of ways, but the main purpose was military.

So you ignorant libertarians can go back to your bongs and kiddie porn and leave the adults alone, mmmkay?

200 I'm in the "love the concept, but government shouldn't be doing it other than for military/national defense purposes" camp.  Against my innermost wishes, but principles are fun like that.

I'm also in the "There's no need for Gabe to be so ugly" camp.  I like you and all, Gabe, but you are, and have always been, very nasty on this topic.  If you don't recognize that, maybe you could sleep on it and try looking at your post again tomorrow morning, I dunno.  Or maybe you don't care, in which case feel free to just ignore me.  There are some topics I feel like that about; I don't, for example, care if anyone is offended by my belief that the government has no business funding the arts.  Though I do generally try not to be ugly when I express that belief.

Actually I think I read somewhere that NASA actually lost the plans to the Saturn rockets.

I don't think they were ever documented in the first place.  Configuration control wasn't a big priority in those days.

201 This a prestige project. If we're going for prestige, why don't we re-start the Vietnam War and try to win this time? We could claim we never lost a war again.

202

NASA lost me forever when they shot a schoolteacher into space. What was the point of that? She was going to teach her class from space - before she got atomized.

That's it? Teaching her class from space? What was the fucking point of teaching her class from space, you ask? Tell me, because I'd really like to know. To me it looked like bullshit grandstanding to ensure future funding, NASA's answer to Dancing with the Stars. Help me find where I went wrong in my analysis.

203 Just take the regulatory chains off deep sea exploration and watch the private profit making sector create jobs and produce things.  This would contribute to the tax base, not deplete it like a gubmint program would!

204 Argh, forgot the italic functionality was stripped.  Third-to-last paragraph is a quotation.

205 Dammit, *third* paragraph.  Screw this, I'm going to go give my baby a bath.

206 Anyone with a brain and a lil history should know that most of the "cool stuff" we have now-a-days all started from our last space program....this is what keeps us on the edge , and besides the security risk of not controlling space...

207 We don`t need visionaries, they never amount to nothin`.

208 We should also start a program to explore the deepest, most lifeless parts of the ocean and establish a colony We'll be expanding the reach of man, and spurring technological growth that we'll all benefit from. Stupid idea. Kind of like living on the moon.

209 Large technical programs like the U2 and Apollo probably cannot be repeated because the lawyers and bureaucraps have introduced review processes at every step of the way.  The technical expertise of skilled engineers is secondary to political goals (like muslim outreach, environmental greenness, corrupitalism, and union jobs).  It will be a generation before this can be eradicated (if it can be which I am beginning to doubt).

210 There are small research He3 reactors operating.  The largest operational one is generally visible in the sky around noon time.

The shit is so rare on earth you're not going to see anything beyond small research units.

211

The space program nowadays is basically large-scale jerking off. The only way it could make a real contribution is if we starting launching liberals and Muslims to, say, Mercury.

 

And we don't need "prestige" projects. We need a sound economy, which pretty much precludes "prestige" projects.

212

there's not a single reason the taxpayers should be paying for it simply because you think it's cool.

Posted by: A Tyrannosaur just hanging out near Chicxulub

213 Nice rant, Gabe. I love it when a guy puts his heart into it like that.

214

It is better for the kids and us to have heroes, real people doing dangerous, rigorous work, here on the ground getting the stuff built to go and also those lucky, exceptionally smart and driven, people who get to go, rather than movies stars, rock stars, sports stars, etc.. It is good to go to Mars, the Moon. Anything less is stagnation and decay. We need big, visible, easy to understand national goals. Working in space is unambiguous, non-indecisive, non-irresolute, or you are dead. It is a powerfully symbolic line in the sand that we can still draw between ourselves and our cohabitants on this ball of turmoil and hate. Owning the high ground is good. The economic return on "big" space, and the return on every nickel of research money poured into it, is tremendous. It is the kind of business that we should be doing. It's smart, and worth incentives from taxpayers. We can't out cobble our foes, we can't out stitch them, or hammer metal into pots and pans better, but we can do the "big" and the spinoffs better. That is, "if" we have the will and the vision. It isn't about Noot, or any of those others, it's about us as a nation and whether or not we go down swinging, or just go down. It is also more exciting than watching oil coming out of a pipe under water!

215 We should also start a program to explore the deepest, most lifeless parts of the ocean and establish a colony We'll be expanding the reach of man, and spurring technological growth that we'll all benefit from.

****
I don't know about colonizing, but I could dang sure support knowing more about our own planet before traveling to another.

216

Posted by: MJ at January 25, 2012 09:38 PM (/x4oj)

The beauty of undersea exploration and operations is that we don't need to have people present to do interesting and valuable things.

Now if I can just get those damn dolphins to grow opposable thumbs!

217

What is Ron Paul's take on travel to Mars?

 

The same as Dennis Kucinich's: they want us to go full speed ahead, so they can get back for homecoming.

218 The same as Dennis Kucinich's: they want us to go full speed ahead, so they can get back for homecoming.

****
All those movies with the big-headed aliens.... has anyone ever seen Ron Paul with back-lighting?

219

It is a powerfully symbolic line in the sand that we can still draw between ourselves and our cohabitants on this ball of turmoil and hate.

 

Symbolism? Fucking symbolism? That's the best you've got?? That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard.

220 Stupid idea. Kind of like living on the moon.

The deep ocean bottom has a wealth of minerals resources.  Gold, diamonds, nickle, copper, etc.

221 Mahan and Roosevelt would kick your ass Gabe. We need to dominate space, you sound like the stuffy opinion writers that pilloried the Louisiana Purchase and Alaska as Seward's Folly. At the time no one could predict the value of those frontiers AND we were broke. When dealing with a current accounts problem and debt, you can't ignore the opportunity cost of the future. If you were running a business, would you cut the advertising and marketing budget when things get tight? DoD has a valid list of requirements for the moon, that civilian squishes have been sitting on for years. Space represents the high ground, the current and future "lanes of communication", and the frontier; surrendering it in some symbolic gustures of cutting everything else before addressing the real fiscal problems in medical and retirement accounts is insane. You would deny the future to scratch the collosal debts you don't have the courage to face.

222 This is just a sad post and thread.

You youngsters do not know the pride and awe we felt when those astronauts landed on the moon.

America was a nation of explorers, founded and peopled by people wh were always moving,  looking for a new frontier.  It gave us our national character through the westward expansion and the opening of Alaska.  When America was looking for new fields to conquer,  Kennedy proposed the moon,  and it captured the imagination of the country.

I watched almost every space launch from Mercury  (that was actually radio in my 7th grade classroom) to the last Space Shuttle.  I was privileged to watch men land on the moon when a young Air Force bride in West Berlin.

Sadly,  it seems like the spirit of exploration is being extinguished by people who wear green eye shades and have no interest in things beyond this mortal coil.

I am 63.  I have accepted for some time that I will not see American space travel of any consequence in my lifetime.  I am saddened at the thought that the Chinese may be the ones to finally establish a colony on the moon. 

Aside from the national security risk that would pose,  it would truly mean that American exceptionalism had died, and we would be no better than  a large Belgium

The arching sky is calling Spacemen back to their trade. ALL HANDS! STAND BY! FREE FALLING! And the lights below us fade. Out ride the sons of Terra, Far drives the thundering jet, Up leaps a race of Earthmen, Out, far, and onward yet --- We pray for one last landing On the globe that gave us birth; Let us rest our eyes on the friendly skies And the cool, green hills of Earth.   Robert Heinlein

223

Agree.  I regularly get trashed out by both my GOP and Libertarian friends for saying much the same thing. 

We're DOOM'd.  Broke.  Skint.  When we don't have the money to operate enough prisons to keep criminals off the streets (OT - legalizing would help on that score) I can't justify spending on theoretical science in general, much less on the very non-commercially relevant space program.  And no, asteroid mining and the like isn't even a realistic long-term goal over the next few decades. 

In the face of crushing deficits and a need to radically downsize government spending just to remain afloat, there's just no way these expenses make it through any realistic marginal analysis.

Talk to me again in 20 years if and only if we haven't gone the way of the Romans by then.

224 I'm also in the "There's no need for Gabe to be so ugly" camp. I like you and all, Gabe, but you are, and have always been, very nasty on this topic. If you don't recognize that, maybe you could sleep on it and try looking at your post again tomorrow morning, I dunno. Or maybe you don't care, in which case feel free to just ignore me. There are some topics I feel like that about; I don't, for example, care if anyone is offended by my belief that the government has no business funding the arts. Though I do generally try not to be ugly when I express that belief.

One of the things that I have noticed about this topic is that it's very hard to be sarcastic about it without people getting really bent out of shape. The rest of politics, no problem. We do sarcasm here at the HQ all day long, we have flame wars and yelling, but there are some sacred cows that do not lend themselves well to sarcasm because people take it personally.

Space exploration is one of those topics. My belief is that it shouldn't be. For conservatives it should be just another government program. And I'm going to talk about it as just another government program. You want me to be respectful about setting up a permanent base on the moon? Tell me DOD wants it.

But I just spent the past hour on twitter having people tell me that the "soul of the nation" needs "big aspirations that are important" and variations of the idea that government needs to fund gigantic symbolic projects to keep collective humanity from giving up on progress and climbing back up into the trees instead.

I can't talk to these people and keep an even tone, Peel. It's too silly for that.

225 WTF is up with the spacing on posts ?

226 The space program nowadays is basically large-scale jerking off. The only way it could make a real contribution is if we starting launching liberals and Muslims to, say, Mercury.

And we don't need "prestige" projects. We need a sound economy, which pretty much precludes "prestige" projects.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 25, 2012 09:40 PM (2sOzU)

 

 

See! another spinoff we can all get behind!

227 Miss Marple, you really think that we should go back to the Moon for pride? Really? Pride?

You know what would make me proud?  --The voters of this country collectively deciding not to shackle my children with a mountain of debt that will crush their dreams before they are even born. That would make me proud.

228 We should also start a program to explore the deepest, most lifeless
parts of the ocean and establish a colony We'll be expanding the reach
of man, and spurring technological growth that we'll all benefit from.


****
I don't know about colonizing, but I could dang sure support knowing more about our own planet before traveling to another.

Posted by: The kids from South Park at January 25, 2012 09:41 PM (piMMO)

 

 

And after the Mariana Trench, there's always downtown Detroit.

229

We can't out cobble our foes, we can't out stitch them, or hammer metal into pots and pans better, but we can do the "big" and the spinoffs better.

 

And God knows we can out-spend and out-stupid them. Oh yes.

230 I can't talk to these people and keep an even tone, Peel. It's too silly for that.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 25, 2012 09:46 PM (I2U+E)

 

 

I think you need to look up sarcasm in a dictionary there Gabe.

231

That's it?Teaching her class from space?What was the fuckingpoint of teaching her class from space, you ask? Tell me, because I'd really like to know.To me it looked like bullshit grandstanding to ensure future funding, NASA's answer to Dancing with the Stars. Help me find where I went wrong in my analysis.

---------

 

Again, you're not gonna see SpaceX and Virgin doing that kind of stupid. And if I'm wrong and they do? Their ass is grass, and someone else will come along.

 

These guys will spend the money on engineers not Muslim Outreach.

232 Yeah, state-sponsored exploration and expansion is pointless and never works. Just ask Queen Isabella.


(Just may have been Gabe's dumbest post ever).

233 Because it's there, that's why.

234 Apparently Gabe is practicing for his Old Curmudgeon days. "You damn Trekkies get offa my lawn!" Seriously, space exploration and exploitation is where it's at. All those "prestige projects" would , gee, get people employed, get a sense of national and international direction headed towards something besides Occupy Wall Street, saving the non-drowning polar bears, and begging the PRC to not distribute our bonds to the peasants as kindling. Then the private sector can take over from there. C'mon Gabe, let Newt make NASA do the hob it was intended to do. That is, to plant Old Glory on every semi-useful rock in the solar system, sell the mineral rights to that rock to a (hopefully American) corporation, and keep the Welcome mat ready for the Vulcans whenever they decide to condescend to recognize our efforts.

235 The Federal Government is not the USA and the USA is not the Federal Government. When an American Citizen in a privately owned vehicle sets up a hotel and cafe on the Moon, America has gone to the Moon. When the Federal Government sets up an Office of Moon Fairness on the Moon, the Soviet Union has gone to the Moon. Newt is a typical modern day Governmentist. It will take many decades to rid the world of his starry eyed collectivist thinking.

236 If the Challenger didn't blow up, nobody would even remember the teacher in space stuff, and that check box on the NASA PR checklist would have been checked off and never revisited.

237

Gabe, re the "big aspirations that are important" thought, I think that in our country's  financial situation, if it doesn't have a payoff that can be achieved by non-subsidized private individuals (or corporations), it isn't worth doing.

The exception might be that if DoD can present a clear and cogent rationale for a project, then government funding might be allowable.  Right now, the administrative state is so corrupt that it cannot be permitted to expend funds for anything except the bare necessities.

238 Posted by: The kids from South Park at January 25, 2012 09:41 PM (piMMO) And after the Mariana Trench, there's always downtown Detroit.

****

There's no way in hell anyone is ever going to volunteer for that mission!

239 Gabe always did have a problem with 'tang

240

You youngsters do not know the pride and awe we felt when those astronauts landed on the moon.

We are the same age. The moon landing was great, but a luxury, and the sort of thing we can't afford now. We're broke. BROKE. Got it? BROKE. Say it with me. We're borrowing 40% of our current operating costs, and nitwits want to borrow still more for feel-good projects. It's not down to the green eyeshade types - it's down to the grownups.

 

Put another way, how much is pride and awe worth, in dollars and cents? Can you spread pride and awe on a cracker and eat it?

241 #231  Not pride.  Aspiration.  "Our reach should exceed our grasp" and all of that.

And there's another reason.

Suppose,  oh,  say 50 years from now (when I will be long gone) astronomers discover a large object heading towards Earth, or they discover the Sun is going to go super-nova.

How will you look at your grandchildren and tell them that there is no escape,  knowing that perhaps there would have been,  if only everyone hadn't thought it such a foolish and money-wasting idea?

I have always thought we should pursue the space program for that reason even if no other: the preservation of humanity.

242 Put another way, how much is pride and awe worth, in dollars and cents? Can you spread pride and awe on a cracker and eat it?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 25, 2012 09:54 PM (2sOzU)

 

 

 

Well, we could cut the stupid shit, for one thing.

243

Gingrich today " lets go back to the moon"

Romney Campaign Employee "No total repeal of Obamacare".

 

Which one bothers you the most?

244 Is it a MOOOON cracker?

245 Put another way, how much is pride and awe worth, in dollars and cents? Can you spread pride and awe on a cracker and eat it?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at January 25, 2012 09:54 PM (2sOzU)

.

.

.

it tastes a lot better that faceless government program, too.

 

 

 

 

246

Again, you're not gonna see SpaceX and Virgin doing that kind of stupid. And if I'm wrong and they do?

 

Who cares? If it's not on the taxpayers' tab, they can do whatever they want. They could produce $40 K electric cars that go 20, 30 miles on a charge. Hell, they could even go in for high-speed rail. Maybe they see an opportunity that I don't. If so, God love 'em. If they do, but it doesn't work out, fuck 'em.

247

Posted by: Miss Marple at January 25, 2012 09:54 PM (GoIUi)

Miss M, "if" the earth's temperature increases fast enough, our great grand children will all melt, scalded to death by the steam, when we could have instituted a really big program to control the temperature of the entire planet.

248 I understand that but I wasn't talking about colonizing Challenger Deep, I was talking about underwater mining and harvesting underwater vegetation. It's more realistic than mining the moon.

Posted by: ErikW at January 25, 2012 09:21 PM (oIcB

 

Am not busting your balls.  Agree with this point in that we know that life and mineral deposits exist underwater.  The sea is more like drilling a developmental well while the moon is more like drilling a wildcat well.

249 What do you think a moon cracker would taste like. If it tasted like green cheese, would ya eat it?

250 Which one bothers you the most?

Posted by: Dick Nixon at January 25, 2012 09:56 PM (uTkv5)

Gingrich because it's intellectually insulting. At least Romney is being honest.

251 All those "prestige projects" would , gee, get people employed, get a sense of national and international direction headed towards something besides Occupy Wall Street, saving the non-drowning polar bears, and begging the PRC to not distribute our bonds to the peasants as kindling. Then the private sector can take over from there.

If you say so, President Obama. Seriously, you just described---to the last period---Obama's stimulus claims. It would put people to work and give us a sense of purpose and then private industry will take over. It worked out great for Obama didn't it?

Yeah, state-sponsored exploration and expansion is pointless and never works. Just ask Queen Isabella.

Hyuck, hyuck. Because there's an awesome trade route to the vast material wealth of the Indies on the Moon, just like Isabella thought she was getting with Columbus' trip. Vast. Material Wealth.

252 Miss M, "if" the earth's temperature increases fast enough, our great grand children will all melt, scalded to death by the steam, when we could have instituted a really big program to control the temperature of the entire planet.

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 25, 2012 09:58 PM (i3+c5)

.

.

.

If the oceans turn to steam, that solves our energy problems right there!

253 He3 solves long term nuclear waste disposal problems. 

If someone thinks "nuclear power" should be part of our future, then they need to get behind 2nd gen fusion reactors.  The 1st gen tokamak scheme is grotesquely expensive, and would require huge centralized facilities.

254 Hyuck, hyuck. Because there's an awesome trade route to the vast material wealth of the Indies on the Moon, just like Isabella thought she was getting with Columbus' trip. Vast. Material Wealth.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 25, 2012 09:59 PM (I2U+E)

.

.

.

Keep smiting those Heathen!

255 The sea is more like drilling a developmental well while the moon is more like drilling a wildcat well where the cost to field another section of casing is probably 1000x that of an entire subsea platform.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 25, 2012 09:58 PM (4q5tP)

added a proviso

256

Suppose, oh, say 50 years from now (when I will be long gone) astronomers discover a large object heading towards Earth, or they discover the Sun is going to go super-nova.

How will you look at your grandchildren and tell them that there is no escape, knowing that perhaps there would have been, if only everyone hadn't thought it such a foolish and money-wasting idea?

Are you fucking kidding me?

I take back my comment above. THIS is the stupidest thing I've ever read.

Where to start? First, you posit two extraordinarily unlikely events. Second, 50 years from now, we won't be here to look at anyone, having died long before. Third, how many fucking people do you think can be shot into space? Maybe a dozen or two? So in your ridiculous scenario the vast majority of humanity is hosed in any case.

Christ. No wonder they point telescopes into space to look intelligent life. There's precious little of it here.

257 "Because there's an awesome trade route to the vast material wealth of the Indies on the Moon"

The moon's escape velocity can be attained with a rail gun.  Sending back packages of stuff to earth would be dramatically cheaper than sending earth stuff to the moon.

258 I should interject here that I realize that money constraints are the problem,  and I am not advocating immediate spending.  And I loathe Newt Gingrich's co-opting of this,  because that fat flawn is simply grabbing another "big idea"from Kennedy, just like he grabs ideas from both Roosevelts, Reagan and others.

I have been saddened by the deterioration in NASA and space exploration since we opted for the shuttle and abandoned the moon.

I am only expressing my opinion.  It will be Congress and the public at large who decide,  and my one voice won't probably be heard.

But it is sad.  When Jay Guevera asks me if I can spread pride and awe on a piece of cracker,  I realize that the world has moved on from those wonderful days when we thought we had the stars in our grasp.  Now we are concerned with balance sheets and perhaps rightfully so.

But it is as sad as the end of the True West.  And abandoning space won't improve things here one bit.

259 Sending back packages of stuff to earth would be dramatically cheaper than sending earth stuff to the moon.

And what exactly are you gonna send back? Your options are rock and water. Maybe He3. Maybe. Assuming it's actually useful for something and can survive the trip in useful form.

260 Gabe on this point we differ - We might not be going for a trade route exactly but there are obviously exploitable resources, and the potential for cheaper satellite and other space technologies. Plus essentially owning Mars could be rewarding

261 If this post was sarcasm, you ain't doing it right.

262

Posted by: Purple Avenger at January 25, 2012 10:03 PM (0I4YH)

You'd best watch out for those damn loonies and their rail guns!

263 #260 Perhaps you should do a little reading about chances of stars going supernova and the chance of a large asteroid hitting earth.

Oh,  and one other thing.  I don't believe I called you stupid,  nor did I call anyone on this thread stupid.

So fuck you.

264 But it is sad. When Jay Guevera asks me if I can spread pride and awe on a piece of cracker, I realize that the world has moved on from those wonderful days when we thought we had the stars in our grasp. Now we are concerned with balance sheets and perhaps rightfully so.

But it is as sad as the end of the True West. And abandoning space won't improve things here one bit.

Posted by: Miss Marple at January 25, 2012 10:04 PM (GoIUi)

.

.

But no comment about the statement that all the expensive spending of Obamacare will never be rolled back.  Better to rail about theoretical expenses  that will likely never come than turn a hair over real expenses happening now.

265 Here's an accessible "moon mining" article via Popular Mechanics http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/moon-mars/1283056

266 "Assuming it's actually useful for something and can survive the trip in useful form."

Its survived millions/billions of years in a hard vacuum.  As a general statement, most stable atoms don't rot or decay for a very very long time...like the heat death of the universe kinda long time.

The atoms that make up your body were mostly born in a supernova billions of years ago, and they survived to this day pretty much unscathed. 

Atoms are durable.

267 Oldcat,  I expect Obamacare will be rolled back.  If it isn't,  we won't be going to the grocery for food,  let alone to the moon.

Why should I talk about Obamacare on this thread?  I thought it was about space exploration!

268 The sea is more like drilling a developmental well while the moon is more like drilling a wildcat well.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 25, 2012 09:58 PM (4q5tP)

Well you go right ahead with that. I would imagine that the cost of transportation would greatly exceed the value of the cargo, even if it were gold. I just can't see it. Feel free to tell me that I'm wrong.

269  Miss Marple, the human body is extraordinarily unsuited to space travel and, for that matter, space living. We're going to leave our fragile little planet when either of two things happen: (1) we learn to adapt our bodies to space conditions--the radiation, the low gravity, the fluid issues; or (2) we make a physics breakthrough that enables methods of travel presently inconceivable. Neither of those things are going to happen in a Moon base or a Mars base.

270 there are obviously exploitable resources

Oh? Name them.

271 (by "accessible" I mean something layperson friendly.)

272 Gabe I posted a link

273

That's right! I had forgotten all about the being dead in just a few years part! Fuck it, I'm with you. Just give me the money instead of spending it on space or defense or any other kind of partially government funded stuff. I had forgotten all about the being dead and how I would never, ever, benefit from this space or defense stuff personally in the near term. Hell, I was dumb enough when I first read the topic, still dumb enough that is, to have faith in America and dreams for America. Thanks for the ice water fellas! Could have easily become a damn democrat space nut if you hadn't slapped me around!

274 Oldcat, I expect Obamacare will be rolled back. If it isn't, we won't be going to the grocery for food, let alone to the moon.

Why should I talk about Obamacare on this thread? I thought it was about space exploration!

Posted by: Miss Marple at January 25, 2012 10:09 PM (GoIUi)

..

.

.

I wasn't referring to you Miss M.  I was referring to the 'budget hawks' who react to any discussion of space travel like we are destroying the country - like the guy you quoted.

.

.

Pretty much everyone on both threads admit this is a long term if ever kind of thing.  But that's not enough for the anti-Dream crowd that need to scourge any joy out of life.

 

275 #273  I am not suited to do technical arguments.  My expertise is in geology (from years ago) and now antiques (of which I am one).

I see I am in a minority here,  and will accept that the vision of the country has changed.  Don't worry,  I'm not going to assemble a group of space-junkies and march on Washington,  demanding tax dollars.

But I reserve the right to be sad about it,  and to regret that the American character has changed.

276 Neither of those things are going to happen in a Moon base or a Mars base.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 25, 2012 10:10 PM (I2U+E)

.

.

Last I looked, the moon was made of dirt that provides dandy rad shielding.

277 Why should I talk about Obamacare on this thread? I thought it was about space exploration!

Posted by: Miss Marple at January 25, 2012 10:09 PM (GoIUi)

Because socialism makes everything dependent on everything else.  Thus, space exploration redistributes the wealth into something potentially useful with long term value, while Obamacare creates vote-buying dependency in a fair and equitable short-term redistribution of wealth.

Now if the Martians would agree to vote D, there might be a chance for the space program (once we worked out the alien amnesty thing).

278 If Romney had a conservative bone in his body, he could easily bludgeon Newt with this.

279  I'm going to expand on my response to Mrs. Peel.

I sound flip (you say it's "ugly") because a moon base a silly idea. I'm under no obligation to treat this idea as anything other than silly. I don't have to be respectful of this idea any more than I respect the idea that Obama isn't a natural born citizen . . . even though fellow conservatives hold it. It's still silly. I'm not going to pretend that it's even in the vicinity of "good ideas worthy of considering seriously." It's not.

280 "Last I looked, the moon was made of dirt that provides dandy rad shielding."

And protection from micro-meteor strikes.  Lacking atmosphere, that becomes a big issue.

281  even though fellow conservatives hold it. It's still silly. I'm not going to pretend that it's even in the vicinity of "good ideas worthy of considering seriously." It's not.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 25, 2012 10:18 PM (I2U+E)

.

Then mock the ideas with humor, instead of the commenters with bile.

282  Sarahk, He3 is by no means an "exploitable resource." For starters we have absolutely no use for it at present.

You're suggesting that we develop a fusion reactor specifically so we can power it with fuel we can only get in quantity off-planet. And that doesn't seem silly to you?

283  Feel free to tell me that I'm wrong.

Posted by: ErikW at January 25, 2012 10:09 PM (oIcB

Aaaand I sounded like an asshole. I wasn't trying to be. I do that sometimes.

284 What a narrow-minded attitude, Mr Malor.

Have you ever been in a hospital?  Ever wondered how the nurses knew when you felt crummy?  Telemetry.  Invented for the space program.

Cordless tools.
CT scanners
MRI imaging
SATELLITES, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!  which includes accurate weather forecasting, GPS, spying without risking SR-71 pilots, and sat- phones
smoke detectors
enriched infant formula
ear thermometers
ceramic dental braces
transparent dental braces
improvements over the basic pacemaker
protective paint (see the Golden Gate bridge)
scratch resistant eyeglasses
viscoelastic memory foam, for mattresses and athletic shoe insoles
anti-hydroplaning pavement grooving
tap water filters (like Brita and PUR)
dialysis machines
exercise machines
freeze-drying
cold suits
insulation improvements
thermal insulated gloves and boots
nonstick coatings for frying pans

And that's with ten minutes searching.  Research is a Good Thing.
I'm not insistent on the space program being an entirely govt-funded project; let private industry in earlier, and we'll all see the improvement in our lives sooner.

There are excellent reasons to go to the Moon, Mars and the asteroids:  minerals.  It is so much easier to mine for iron, mercury, gold, silver, aluminum, etc etc when there's no need to obey the EPA because there is no environment to protect.  There are ice deposits underground on the Moon; they can be used to create oxygen to supply a base there, where minerals found in the asteroid belt can be transshipped to earth:  re-read MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESSby Robert Heinlein to see how easy and cheap it would be to drop raw materials to the Earth.

And the human race needs to fledge from its nest, and plant colonies on other worlds, so a disaster at one world (think about the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs) doesn't make us extinct, too.

Stop looking at the dust upon which you stand and look up.  The stars are there, calling us to grow up.

285 In space no one can hear the audience during a debate...

286 Hell I would be happy if Newt's comments revive that plan for The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress movie.

287 Asteroids are easier to get to than the moon (I know, counter-intuitive), we haven't gone to them yet, they represent a marginal danger to the planet, and each one is more valuable, mineral-wise, than any moon base. Why can't Newt go on about Asteroids? The only good thing about a moon base is its easy to imagine how cool it would be. And, I suppose, you could build a kick ass gigantic telescope on there, easily. And its got some gravity... Either way, its still a stupid election issue for 2012. 2062, on the other hand...

288

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at January 25, 2012 10:21 PM (I2U+E)

Jesus, dude. Chill. I happen to agree. What's the hang up?

289 Er, 2060.

290 Symbolism,  yep, growing up I seemed to always have something forward to look to, be it the space program, mechanical technology, computers (which were a gleam in someones eyes), landlines to pagers to cellular, tv, medical advancements and so much more, I was proud to be an American. A couple of years ago my son asked me what he has to look forward to based on my life, I told him he would live to see another revolution in this country because pride of self and country were being forgotten and given up by too many of us. He said, shit.....

291 I want my flu shot money back. I have absolutely no use for it at present. No one I know has the flu. I don't have the flu. I want my space money back too! I hope the Chinese don't get the flu before me. That would really piss me off, since I paid for the flu shot and now they are sitting on the moon pointing railguns at me. I feel feverish ....

292

 I realize that the world has moved on from those wonderful days when we thought we had the stars in our grasp.

 

We never had the stars in our grasp. Only morons were unclear on this.

293

Oh, and one other thing. I don't believe I called you stupid, nor did I call anyone on this thread stupid.

So fuck you.

 

I call 'em the way I see 'em.

294 And, for the record, I didn't call you stupid, but characterized your suggestion as such.

295 Jay Guevera,  do you think you are persuading me by calling names?  You can call me stupid until the cows come home,  it makes no matter to me. 

I am not changing my opinion or how I feel about the end of the space program. 

So quit wasting your time.

296 Ditto.

297

or how I feel about the end of the space program.

"feel" being the operative word. "Think" is more to the point.

298 Well Jay, I`ve read and agree with most your comments on this site, I disagree a little on this post, no biggy. The fu to Miss Marple who is well capable of defending herself was out of line. So fuck you.

299 #303 Shamefully,  I must admit that it was I who said that,  which is not my normal mode of conversation.

I lost my temper and I apologize to Jay.

And please don't blame him for my ill-tempered outburst.

300 Aaaand I sounded like an asshole. I wasn't trying to be. I do that sometimes.

Posted by: ErikW at January 25, 2012 10:22 PM (oIcB

 

De Nada.  Was trying to agree with your point and say we think we know the good stuff is there to get from the sea and generally where it might be found - (developmental well);  versus a blind shot to find something in a location that hasn't produced squat as yet  - (wildcat well).

 

Was not even factoring in any other realities like transportation, storage, etc.

301

The fu to Miss Marple who is well capable of defending herself was out of line. So fuck you.

 

I think you misunderstood. I didn't issue the fu, I was quoting one. But as you say, no biggie.

And I too apologize for my intemperate remarks, Miss M. The scotch is kicking with a vengeance tonight.

302 OK, that`s what I get for not reading all of the comments. I searched back and missed it. I know you here too Miss Marple and don`t always agree, but do respect your comments. Jay, I give you a heartfelt apology and hope you accept. Like I stated, I`m in agreement with you here a whole helluvalot more than not.

303 If humanity is to survive, we must expand beyond the planet of our birth.  From my POV, that's kind of imperative.  This means colonizing space.  Colonies cost a lot of money.  Historically, governments are usually the only ones able and willing to fund them.  And yes, some of governments have been bankrupted by the expense. 

We have a very short window to launch these colonies.  Our civilization is collapsing.  It's unlikely we'll rebuild to this point before the next ice age.  It's quite possible that we do it now, or never again have the opportunity. 

Our government is determined to bankrupt itself.  The voters demand it.  This will happen, no matter how we wish that this were not the case. 
If we don't spend the money securing the future of the species, it will be spent elsewhere, on some project that will not do nearly as much good.

Would I prefer to see SpaceX grow to the point where they could finance this endeavor?  Sure.  The colonization project would be more competently run. 
But given the choice between the government passing say, Obamacare, and launching a colonization effort, I'll come down on the side of colonization every time.

304 And it eventually gave us Tang and that weird freeze-dried astronaut icecream stuff.

And the microprocessor. Which, no doubt, would have been developed sooner or later. But thanks to Apollo, it was sooner.

305 Fuck you, Gabriel Malor, and your earth-bound bullshit.

306 The voice of reason has spoken.  If GABE thinks that it's silly, then it must be so.  You're worried about the cost of the space program?  Really?  The fact that you get so worked up about a part of the budget that is a drop in the bucket is what's silly.

I bet that you don't have a CLUE what was on the Moon.  How it was different.  How it was the same as Earth.  What the Moon can tell us about how the Earth was formed.  Nope.  You just believe the same shit that Obama said, "We've been there.  We don't need to go back."

That's what happens when lawyers act like they know shit about anything.

What a moron.  And not in a good way.

307 Gee Gabe, for a moment there I thought I was reading a page from Time Magazine. You must be so proud!

308

Gabriel, you're an idiot.

There is something on the moon - less gravity.

It takes less energy to accomplish things there.  Whoever controls the moon will control the future.  Moonbases are necessary for the future.

309 Malor sure hates space property theory a lot for a guy who fancies himself a future expert on Law of the Sea. Luna has no riparian rights, you know. Or...does it? You can't have a career as a mere theorist.

Ma -- Gabe called me a boomer!
Look, counselor, "boomers" are going to outnumber and outvote you the rest of your career, probably your life. If you can't make your argument to them without name-calling and making them a faction, you're going to lose everything.

And dare I point out, you callow misspent yoot, you've set yourself up to have a hell of a lot to lose. Take that as a threat? You're making enemies, and working hard at it too.

310 You know, I'm particularly stunned that Gabe would turn his anti-space rant into a slam on Newt. What the hell? All Newt did was propose a MORE EFFICIENT way for NASA to spend it's money. And for that Newt is condemned? Oh, wait. I forgot. According to Gabe, any taxpayer dollars spent on NASA is a waste of money. Yep it's time to de-orbit the International Space Station, for Gabe has spoken! I now await Gabe's condemation of Romney, since Romney doesn't want to zero out NASA from the Federal budget either. Tick tock, Gabe. Tick tock.

311 He also called for a Northwest Ordinance claiming space for Americans, promised multiple daily launches, and claimed the moon would become a US state. I admire grandiose dreams, but we can't afford it now. Still, if it weren't shameless pandering for industry votes, it would be cute and endearing to see an old man dreaming the dreams of a child.

312 "Look, counselor, "boomers" are going to outnumber and outvote you the rest of your career, probably your life." Nonsense. You'll all be dead in a just a few more years.

313 There are just way too many people that don't comprehend the economic collapse we are headed for. And they are the same people that keep voting in these big government fools in both parties.

314 Some people just can't see past the nose on their face. Or Gabe has a hard-on for Romney.

315 Well his position is far superior to what NASA is currently trying to accomplish which is basically building a big huge rocket to nowhere.  Newt wants to get rid of the whole NASA built heavy lift rocket and instead but them on building enabling technologies that will give us a destination and a reason to go into space.  Then we can use existing rocket technologies being developed by private space companies to create a new business market here on Earth.  This in turn will create new wealth, create new employment opportunities, and open up new frontiers in our social evolution. 

316 Space superiority is part of our military doctrine. Cede space to someone else and we're done as a super power.

317 #60: "The potential payback for undersea exploration far exceeds anything that we would possibly gain from space exploration."

In many ways it actually easier to build a space vessel than it is an undersea vessel.  In the vacuum of space you only have to deal with -1 atmospheres no matter where you go.  But under the water hydrostatic pressure increases 1 kg/cm² per 9.75 meters.  Even the top of the line attack subs of the Navy only routinely operate in hundreds of feet of water.  Many failures on deep sea exploration vehicles are often the result of the immense pressure in deep water.  While most of the failures on space craft are the result of human error, not so much because of the environment.  Once we can get our launch costs down to the same levels that a ship on open water would operate at then we can start talking about exploiting resources in outer space.

318 But Gabe! The MO-O-O-O-O-O-ON! James Bond proved that there's hot babes up there!

319 As Neil deGrasse Tyson likes to point out, the first TARP package was far more money than our expenditure on NASA in its entire history, in real dollars. Deck chairs, Titanic, etc. There are better things to be outraged about.

320 I totally disagree. OK.. I'm going to admit I don't know specifics here, details on history. But didn't the Spanish Government have something to do with Columbus coming to America? Uh, didn't our own government have something to do with westward expansion? The point is... where else are we going to go? Space is the new New World. We need to get a presence there and the first step to all of it is the moon. If we don't do it, somebody else will.

321 If NASA never existed we'd have hotels on the Moon. Period.

322

If you guys pushing the marine exploitation angle think that the environmental lobby is going to let you start harvesting black smokers you have another think coming.

And there are plenty of minerals in space ripe for the gathering. 

http://tinyurl.com/y97eo5p

The profit potential just does not justify the required investment. Private companies are now developing new lift systems to replace the shuttle and are very close to delivering them. Space X for example.

We will have a very difficult time trying to compete with China in this endeavor due to the absence of any hostile regulatory agencies there, but if we don't compete we will be completely locked out of this market.

Duhhh.

 

323

And don't give any of that "Andromeda Strain" crap either.

Luddite bungholes.

324 Hmmmm... encouraging private sector business to use private sector finances to develop commercially viable space travel in order to access commercially desirable resources and creating private sector jobs.


Yeah... that sure is crazy.....

325 Moon Schmoon there'sa serious not so much kicking as deflating Newt's tires around here in the top posts. I am exceedingly curious about this phenomenon.

326 I think we can tell Gabe is not an engineer or scientist. 

327

If you guys pushing the marine exploitation angle think that the environmental lobby is going to let you start harvesting black smokers you have another think coming.
And there are plenty of minerals in space ripe for the gathering.

----

If you think the enviroweenies can hold up any undersea exploitation, bet your ass space is no different. Rockets put out lots of CO2, and we don't want all those nasty chemicals and exotic toxins in our atmosphere. 

328 I've never commented here before even though I've read this blog everyday for years now, because I never felt a need to add much to the humorous conversation. Yet today, can't believe what some of my fellow Repub's are saying here, especially like things said to Miss Marple. It's absolutely disgraceful to think the party of Reagan's Morning in America have become a hardened group of extremist bean counters. Men do not survive on bread alone, and a call to the frontier is more American then any financial argument ever devised. Can't afford it? Stop being slaves to money. That's not reality? Set a goal and reality will step aside if you're determined to meet it. Suffocation of the soul and spirit should never be in the vocabulary of those who believe in Liberty. So go collect your beans and keep them in a row so when you die you'll have a nice set of beans to hand to your kids, and let us dreamers leave the Iliad to ours.

329 Nevermind that it's our great-grandchildrens' beans we are counting.

330 Turn space over to the private sector, make anything that happens more than 50 miles up tax-free and nobody's business (but you're on the hook for property damage, so be careful), and we'll be wildcatting Titan in half a century.

331 However, (as I understand it) the current space treaty does not allow any government or other entity to claim ownership of a planet, moon or asteroid - or portions thereof. So, what is the incentive for private industry to explore and develop? Possession is 9/10 of the law. If the pols tell the privates they can't, tell THEM "Why don't you come up here and make us? Oh that's right, you CAN'T!" If they to take hostages on Earth, either human or property, drop a few rods from god on Washington. That might be the main attraction to space once it's doable. Allow the producers to move out of the Marxist's reach.

332 Some people talked about ocean expansion instead of space. They are by no means mutually exclusive. Climb the Kardashev Scale for fun and profit. Do all the things.

333

Tech:  For every tech that NASA has sped up, there are a dozen it has delayed at least as much.  (Just by diverting resources, never mind the OMG!! National Security!! stuff & never mind the competition-killing regulations.)

Military:  It is _much_ cheaper* to knock out an orbital weapon than to emplace it.  It's not "high ground" 'til it's cheap & it won't be cheap 'til Congressional graft is out of the way.  (*Even before collision cascades.)

Exploration and fundamental research:  I'm fine with this.  Let's get rid of *NASA so we can do it better.  (*I would like to say "most of", but this is the first thing they'd cut.)

Expansion:  If it doesn't make economic sense, no amount of cronyism, corruption and waste can make it make economic sense.  And when the tech gets to the point that it starts to make sense, the prize will go to those who haven't _institutionalized_ cronyism, corruption and waste.  So let's stop, OK?

Chicxulub:  You know, that was, like, hundreds of years ago.  It must be even older than the Constitution.  So we probably have at least a few more decades, right? Wouldn't it make more sense to develop the economy & tech organically so we don't have to break the bank to solve this?  Particularly when the state-of-the-art tech seems to be: OMG! Not a Nuke! Nukes R Bad! We must stop asteroids with [random method we can't do yet] instead of using Evil Nukes!
 (& Miss Marple, suppose throwing $ away on NA$A is _why_ there's no escape?)

National goals:  Why the heck is it only "national" if the ruling class is in charge?  The private air industry got a little help from gov't. when it started, but these days the FAA and the idiotic airport regs are far more a drag than a help -- and it's still more advanced than space flight, has contributed more to general technological improvement and to the economy.  And what about _our_ goals?

Vision:  Put a second-rate messiah (FDR/JFK/LBJ/BHO) in front of a giant cronyist project.  Pay for it out of the dreams of his subjects so that it's the only big vision left... Of course it will be memorable and exciting by comparison.

Cool:  Think back - is there very much you once thought was cool that you don't now think is dumb?  Cool is new and rare & the only reason space is still rare (& uncool) is because Congress has been running it.

Prestige.  Pride and awe:  'Cause Congress is all that.

Vast. Material. Wealth.:  And all we have to do is melt a whole lotta Moon and somehow separate out what we want.  'Cause except for some stuff on the surface, seems like somebody forgot to sort it out into ore bodies the way he did here.  Though why anybody would send it back to earth (in an extremely expensive insulated box) when it's probably worth 100x as much in orbit, I can't imagine (or are we assuming Congress is in charge?).

239 When an American Citizen in a privately owned vehicle sets up a hotel and cafe on the Moon, America has gone to the Moon.
When the Federal Government sets up an Office of Moon Fairness on the Moon, the Soviet Union has gone to the Moon.  eman

Just so.